anti-quakerism, or, a character of the quakers spirit, from its original and first cause. / written by a pious gentleman that hath been thirteen years amongst the separatists to make observations, and is now returned home with a full intent to lay open the whole mystery of iniquity, in unvailing the whore, that men may no longer drink of the wine of her fornications; he hath vowed a single life, and given himself up wholly to the exercises of the mind. and here he hath described the spirit of quakerism. 1. being a precise puritan. 2. an anabaptist. 3. a seeker. 4. a ranter. 5. a quaker, and indeed what not, all things, and nothing. by which character every man may in some measure see the deceitfulness of his own imagination and be careful, and watch himself accordinly [sic]. younge, richard. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a75478 of text r211441 in the english short title catalog (thomason 669.f.22[57]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 10 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 1 1-bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a75478 wing a3507 thomason 669.f.22[57] estc r211441 99870168 99870168 163639 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a75478) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 163639) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 247:669f22[57]) anti-quakerism, or, a character of the quakers spirit, from its original and first cause. / written by a pious gentleman that hath been thirteen years amongst the separatists to make observations, and is now returned home with a full intent to lay open the whole mystery of iniquity, in unvailing the whore, that men may no longer drink of the wine of her fornications; he hath vowed a single life, and given himself up wholly to the exercises of the mind. and here he hath described the spirit of quakerism. 1. being a precise puritan. 2. an anabaptist. 3. a seeker. 4. a ranter. 5. a quaker, and indeed what not, all things, and nothing. by which character every man may in some measure see the deceitfulness of his own imagination and be careful, and watch himself accordinly [sic]. younge, richard. 1 sheet ([1] p.) printed for the author, london : anno dom. 1659. [i.e., 1660] "a pious gentleman" = richard younge. cf. wing and foot of page which reads: the author hath written a book, which is a tract of his thirteen years experience: entituled, a leaf from the tree of life. and are to be sold by daniel white, at the seven stars in pauls church-yard, and by some that sell this paper. partly in verse "i have been in the valley of siddim". annotation on thomason copy: "jan. 5." reproduction of the original in the british library. eng society of friends -early works to 1800. puritans -early works to 1800. anabaptists -early works to 1800. dissenters, religious -england -early works to 1800. a75478 r211441 (thomason 669.f.22[57]). civilwar no anti-quakerism, or, a character of the quakers spirit, from its original and first cause. written by a pious gentleman that hath been thirte younge, richard 1659 1745 15 0 0 0 0 0 86 d the rate of 86 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the d category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2008-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2008-09 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-11 megan marion sampled and proofread 2008-11 megan marion text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion anti-quakerism , or , a character of the quakers spirit , from its original and first cause . written by a pious gentleman that hath been thirteen years amongst the separatists to make observations , and is now returned home with a full intent to lay open the whole mystery of iniquity , in unvailing the whore , that men may no longer drink of the wine of her fornications ; he hath vowed a single life , and given himself up wholly to the exercises of the mind . and here he hath described the spirit of quakerism . 1. being a precise puritan . 2. an anabaptist . 3. a seeker . 4. a ranter . 5. a quaker , and indeed what not , all things , and nothing . by which character every man may in some measure see the deceitfulness of his own imagination and be careful , and watch himself accordinly . i have been in the valley of siddim there i met with a ranter , a seeker , a quaker , a puritan , and he told me from the light within all things that ever i did was sinne . he said also by the same light , god dwelled with him by his spirit , from these two premises i resume these are the spirits that do presume . and now since they presumptious be , i 'l take the same authority ; for reason wills that i defend my life and soul , being my own friend . and this without all fear i say , they lyers are , that every way , there is nothing that they say is true , as i will demonstrate to you . and first i 'le them anatomize , in divers shapes of their own guize ; then to their conscience i will go , to see if this be true or no . and first he was a puritan , wareing short hair and little band ; then i thy conscience did extol , till thou wouldst ware no band at all . then thou foundst fault with singing psalms , and said they were as black as charms ; but now in singing you delight ; songs of your own made by the spirit thy custome was to fast and pray , honour thou didst the sabbath day ; but now thou hast got a better light opening thy shop that day for spite . sermons at length thou wouldst not hear , because the minister would sware ; but now you sware and curse down-right is this the effects of your spirit . at length you had a call come out , i will be your father without doubt ; then could not you no longer stay , but left the church without delay . then he turned anabaptist . then you together took in hand , to build christ house upon the sand , and still you want the corner stone , i mean jesus that is christ alone . his word you know you did promise , and there you found the word baptize , you said the meaning of 't must be needs meant of water , baptisme . then did you muse and cast your care all for an administraetor , but here in england none was seen , that used ought but sprinkling . at length you heard men say , that there was saints in silesia , who ever since the apostles time had kept this ordinance pure , divine . thither alass you sent in haste , and thus you did some treasure w●ste , but wh●n your mess●ngers came there , they were deceiv'd as we are here . but this they told you in good deed , that they of baptism stood in need , and for a present remedy , with prayers they to heaven did cry . then did they with a joynt consent do that o● which you now repent , authorize one them to bap●iz● , thus this fine cheat they did devise . the original of the anabaptists . they said that you should thus do , and god would own it they did know , and you their councel simply took , because baptize was writ in book . he turned seeker and ranter . and thus at length you your selves baptiz'd , tell you ano●her sect devis'd ; you will say now ord na●ces are low , god doth not own them you do know . then you assemblies quite forsook , having learn'd your lessons without book , and fo● a time you ●orment were , till you discern'd the morning star . he turned quaker , and nothing . which as a light in you did shine , which light you said w●s christ divine , and now you say he dwells in you , whatsoever you say i know is true . thus have you trac'd and run division , in your confused mad religion ; a great deal more i could you shew , but this is en●ugh for once to know . and now you see our trade is gone , is it long of god , or long of man , if caus'd by m●n'tis thee and i , let us repent then speedily . and do thou do what i have done , if future evils , thou wilt shun , return to church again , i say , there thou maist learn to sing and pray . return to church again with speed , lest obstinacy doth thy torment breed , for if-that faction have his head , blood in our streets must needs be shed . it is good reasoning , inter argumenta hominum , amongst the arguments of men , to draw conclusions from such premises which the respondant or adversaries that are to answer do own . the puritan spirit was the spirit of quakerism , in the first degree , which thing wise men knew full well , which made them so much i●de●vour the suppressing of them , though howbeit they took not the right way , or else the spirit was too strong , and had gotten too much hold both in the magistrates and vulgar , by reason whereof it brake into these extreames , the men of those times were too precise , critical , and exact , which is an infallible sign of relig●ous dotage , or melancholly : see burton on religious melancholly , they took offence without cause ; and i think now the devil , is in them , for they will not be pleased with amends , though they have got all , for their desires are as deep and as large as hell . they sing spiritual songs and hymns of their own devising , and force their brethren to sing with them , under penalty of their censure , which in their opinion is little less then damnation . they bitterly curse and banne all that any way differ from their opinion , and say , they have authority from god to open their shops on the lords day , even that day of which they had once so high an esteem . they applie that text worthy of all consideration , which is by saint paul meant of universal sinne unto themselves , with opposition to others , cor. 6.17 . and make as if they onely were the alone people of god . the word jesus , signifies a saviour , christ , a king , so that christ jesus is such a king that doth save ; but their christ within leads all into destruction , and hurries them upon impossibilities contrary to law and reason , witness their new catalogue of martyrs , printed in red letters like blood , because by the simple they would forsooth be understood as martyrs . the word baptism is an ambiguous term , take heed how you understand it , or make any particular application thereof . they sent up and down the world for a man to baptize them , but they found none , but such as had baptized themselves . in england there was some in the practise of sprinckling , but those the d●ppers , to my knowledge , did reject from communion with them on this very ground . they forsook assemblies , and lay dormant , and so imagined a new gospel , and a new christ within them , the devil take him for me , for i am too much under his power ; then they went to work afresh to get disciples , and i think they have hit it ; for i know , country-men , what i say , that three parts of you that are religiously affected at this day , are possessed with that humour which will make you quakers , if you take not great heed . the quakers did preach , that it was a sinne to wear bands or band-strings . and now my christian friends , and country-men , for the lords sake take heed to your selves , be wise and warned by my harms ; for faction , i thank god , hath undone me , as to my outward estate , in my outward man ; but i have seen the bottom of their bottomless pit ; and beseech you take unto you the whole armour of god , put on fortitude and faith , clothe your selves with zeal , as with a cloak , but for the lord sake let your feet be shod with the preparations of the gospel of peace . follow my directions , and under heaven i will fell these spirits , and then will war and tumults cease , and keep alwayes in memory the words of our lord , matthew 26.41 . mark 13.37 . the author hath written a book , which is as a tract of his thirteen years experience : entituled , a leaf from the tree of life . and are to be sold by daniel white , at the seven stars in pauls church-yard , and by some that sell this paper . london , printed for the author , anno dom 1659. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a75478e-30 hos. 13.9 . the puritan and the papist by a scholler in oxford. cowley, abraham, 1618-1667. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a34831 of text r33684 in the english short title catalog (wing c6688). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 19 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 6 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a34831 wing c6688 estc r33684 13549157 ocm 13549157 100168 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a34831) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 100168) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1547:48) the puritan and the papist by a scholler in oxford. cowley, abraham, 1618-1667. [2], 9 p. printed [by h. hall], [oxford] : m.dc.xliii [i.e. 1643] in verse. at head of title: a satyre. signed at end: a.c. [i.e. abraham cowley] imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. eng catholic church -controversial literature. puritans -controversial literature. a34831 r33684 (wing c6688). civilwar no a satyre. the puritan and the papist. by a scholler in oxford. cowley, abraham 1643 2869 5 0 0 0 0 0 17 c the rate of 17 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2002-10 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2002-11 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2003-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a satyre . the puritan and the papist . by a scholler in oxford . printed in the yeare m.dc.xliii . a satyre . the pvritan and the papist . so two rude waves , by stormes together throwne , roare at each other , fight , and then grow one . religion is a circle ; men contend , and runne the round in dispute without end . now in a circle who goe contrary , must at the last meet of necessity . the roman to advance the catholicke cause allowes a lie , and calls it pia fraus . the puritan approves and does the same , dislikes nought in it but the latin name . he flowes with these devises , and dares ly in very deed , in truth , and verity . he whines , and sighes out lies , with so much ruth , as if he griev'd , 'cause he could ne're speake truth . lies have possest the presse so , as their due , 't will scarcely , ' i feare , henceforth print bibles true . lies for their next strong fort ha' th' pulpit chose , there throng out at the preachers mouth , and nose . and how e're grosse , are certaine to beguile the poore booke-turners of the middle isle . nay to th' almighty's selfe they have beene bold to ly , and their blasphemous minister told they might say false to god , for if they were beaten , he knew 't not , for he was not there . but god , who their great thankefulnesse did see , rewards them straight with another victorie , just such another at brainceford ; and san's doubt . will weary er 't be long their gratitude out . not all the legends of the saints of old , not vast baronius , nor sly surius hold such plenty of apparent lies , as are in your one author , io. browne cleric . par. besides what your small poets have said , or writ . brookes , strode , and the baron of the saw-pit : with many a mentall reservation , you 'le maintaine liberty , reserv'd [ your owne . ] for th' publique good the summes rais'd you 'le disburse ; reserv'd , [ the greater part for your owne purse . ] you 'le root the cavaliers out , every man ; faith , let it be reserv'd here ; [ if yee can . ] you 'le make our gracious charles , a glorious king ; reserv'd [ in heaven , ] for thither ye would bring his royall head ; the onely secure roome for glorious kings , whither you 'le never come . to keepe the estates o' th' subjects you pretend ; reserv'd [ in your owne trunkes ; ] you will defend the church of england , 't is your protestation ; but that 's new-england , by'a small reservation . power of dispensing oaths the papists claime ; case hath got leave o' god , to doe the same . for you doe hate all swearing so , that when you have sworne an oath , ye breake it streight agen . a curse upon you ! which hurts most these nations , cavaliers swearing , or your protestations ? nay , though oaths by you be so much abhorr'd , ye allow god damne me in the puritan lord . they keepe the bible from lay-men , but ye ▪ avoid this , for ye have no laytie ▪ they in a forraigne , and unknowne tongue pray . you in an unknowne sence your prayers say : so that this difference 'twixt ye does ensue , fooles understand not them , nor wise men you . they an unprofitable zeale have got , of invocating saints that heare them not . 't were well you did so ; nought may more be fear'd in your fond prayers , then that they should be heard . to them your non-sence well enough might passe , they 'd ne're see that i' th' divine looking-glasse : nay , whether you 'de worship saints is not yet knowne , for ye' have as yet of your religion none . they by good-workes thinke to be justified , you into the same errour deeper slide ; you thinke by workes too justified to be , and those ill workes , lies , treason , perjurie . but oh your faith is mighty , that hath beene , as true faith ought to be , of things unseene . at worc'ster , brainceford , and edge hill , we see , onely by faith you' have gotten victory . such is your faith , and some such unseene way the publique faith at last your debts will pay . they hold free-will ( that nought their soules may bind ) as the great priviledge of all mankind . you 're here more moderate , for 't is your intent , to make 't a priv'ledge but of parliament . they forbid priests to marry ; you worse doe , their marriage you allow , yet punish too : for you 'de make priests so poore , that upon all who marry , scorne and beggery must fall . they a bold power o're sacred scriptures take , blot out some clauses , and some new ones make . your great lord iesuite brookes publiquely said , ( brookes whom too little learning hath made mad ) that to correct the creed ye should doe well , and blot out christs descending into hell . repent wild man , or you 'le ne're change , i feare , the sentence of your owne descending there . yet modestly they use the creed , for they would take the lords prayer root and branch away . and wisely said a levit of our nation , the lords prayer was a popish innovation . take heed , you 'le grant ere long it should be said , an 't be but to desire your daily bread , they keepe the people ignorant , and you keepe both the people , and yourselves so too . they blind obedience and blind duty teach ; you blind rebellion and blind faction preach . nor can i blame you much , that yee advance that which can onely save yee , ignorance ; though heaven be praysed , t'has oft beene proved well your ignorance is not invincible . nay such bold lies to god him selfe yee vaunt , as if you'd faine keepe him too ignorant . limbus and purgatory they beleive for lesser sinners , that is , i conceive , malignants onely ; you this tricke does please , for the same cause ye ' have made new limbuses , where we may ly imprison'd long ere we a day of iudgement in your courts shall see . but pym can like the pope with this dispence ; and for a bribe deliver soules from thence . their councels claime infallibility , such must your conventicle-synod be ; and teachers from all parts of th'earth yee call , to mak 't a councell oecumenicall . they sev'rall times appoint from meats t' abstaine ; you now for th'irish warres a fast ordaine ; and that that kingdome might be sure to fast yee take a course to sterve them all at last . nay though yee keepe no eves , fridayes , nor lent , not to dresse meate on sundayes you're content ; then you repeat , repeat , and pray , and pray ; your teeth keepe sabboth , and tongues working day . they preserve reliques ; you have few or none , unlesse the clout sent to iohn pym be one . and hollises rich widow , shee who carryed a relique in her wombe before she married . they in succeeding peter take a pride ; so doe you ; for your master ye' have denyed . but cheifely peters priviledge yee choose , at your own wills to bind and to unloose . he was a fisherman ; you may be so too , when nothing but your ships are left to you . he went to rome , to rome you backward ride , ( though both your goings are by some denyed . ) nor i' st a contradiction , if we say . you goe to rome the quite contrary way ; he dy'd o' the crosse ; that death 's unusuall now ; the gallowes is most like 't , and that 's for you . they musicke love i' th church ; it offends your sence , and therefore yee have sung it out from thence , which shewes , if right your mind be understood , you hate it not as musicke , but as good . your madnesse makes you sing , as much as they dance , who are bit with a tarantula . but do not to your selves ( alas ) appeare the most religious traitors that ere were , because your troopes singing of psalmes do goe ; ther 's many a traytor has marcht holbourn so . nor was 't your wit this holy project bore ; tweed and the tyne has seene those trickes before . they of strange miracles and wonders tell , you are your selves a kind of miracle ; even such a miracle as in writ divine we read o' th devills hurrying downe the swine . they have made images to speake , 't is said , you a dull image have your speaker made ; and that your bounty in offerings might abound , y' have to that idoll giv'n six thousand pound , they drive out devills , they say ; here yee begin to differ , i confesse ; you let them in . they maintaine transubstantiation ; you by a contrary philosophers stone , to transubstantiate mettalls , have the skill ; and turne the kingdomes gold to i'ron and steele . i' th' sacrament yee agree not , but 't is noted , bread must be flesh , wine bloud , if ere 't be voted . they make the pope their head , you exalt for him primate and metropolitane , master pym ; nay , white , who sits in the infallible chaire , and most infallibly speakes non-sence there : nay cromwell , pury , whistler , sir iohn wray , he who does say , and say , and say , and say . nay lowry , who does new church-gover'ment wish , and prophesies , like ionas , midst the fish . who can such various businesse wisely sway , and handle herrings , and bishops in one day . nay all your preachers , women , boyes , or men , from master calamy , to mistresse ven , are perfect popes in their owne parish growne ; for to outdoe the story of pope ione : your women preach too , and are like to bee the whores of babylon , as much as shee . they depose kings by force ; by force you 'de doe it . but first use faire meanes to perswade them to it . they dare kill kings ; now 'twixt ye here 's the strife , that you dare shoot at kings , to save their life . and what 's the difference , 'pray , whether he fall by the popes bull or your oxe generall ? three kingdomes thus ye strive to make your owne ; and , like the pope , usurpe a triple crowne . such is your faith , such your religion ; let 's view your manners now , and then i ha' done . your covetousnesse let gasping ireland tell , where first the irish lands , and next ye sell the english bloud ; and raise rebellion here , with that which should suppresse , and quench it there . what mighty summes have ye squeez'd out o' th' city ? enough to make 'em poore , and something witty . excise , loanes , contributions , pole-moneys , bribes , plunder , and such parliament priviledges , are words which you 'le ne're learne in holy writ , 'till the spirit and your synod ha's mended it . where 's all the twentieth part now , which hath beene paid you by some , to forfeit the nineteene ? where 's all the goods distrain'd , and plunders past ? for you 're growne wretched , pilfering knaves at last ; descend to brasse and pewter ; till of late , like midas , all ye toucht , must needs be plate . by what vast hopes is your ambition fed ? 't is writ in bloud , and may be plainly read . you must have places , and the kingdome sway ; the king must be a ward to your lord say . your innocent speaker to the rolles must rise , six thousand pound hath made him proud and wise . kimbolton for his fathers place doth call ; would be like him ; would he were , face and all . isaack would alwayes be lord mayor , and so may alwayes be , as much as he is now . for the five members , they so richly thrive , they 'le but continue alwayes members five . onely pym doth his naturall right enforce , by the mothers side he 's master of the horse . most shall have places by these popular tricks , the rest must be content with bishopricks . for 't is 'gainst superstition your intent , first to root out that great church ornament , money and lands ; your swords , alas , are drawne , against the bishop , not his cap , or lawne . o let not such loud sacriledge begin , tempted by henries rich successefull sinne . henry the monster king of all that age ; wilde in his lust , and wilder in his rage . expect not you his fate , though hotham thrives in imitating henries tricke for wives , nor fewer churches hopes then wives to see buried , and then their lands his owne to bee . ye boundlesse tyranes , how doe you outvy th' athenian thirty , romes dec●mviri ? in rage , injustice , cruelty as farre above those men , as you in number are . what mysteries of iniquity doe we see ? new prisons made to defend libertie ; where without cause , some are undone , some dy , like men bewitcht , they know not how , nor why . our goods forc'd from us for propriety's sake ; and all the reall non-sence which ye make . ship-money was unjustly ta'ne , ye say ; unjustlier farre you take the ships away . the high-commission you calld tyrannie , ye did ; good god! what is the high-committee ? ye said that gifts and bribes preferments bought , by money and bloud too , they now are sought . to the kings will the lawes men strove to draw ; the subjects will is now become the law . 't was fear'd a new religion would begin ; all new religions now are entred in . the king delinquents to protect did strive ; what clubs , pikes , halberts , lighters , sav'd the five ? you thinke the parliament , like your state of grace , what ever sinnes men doe , they keepe their place . invasions then were fear'd against the state , and strode swore that last yeare would be ' eighty-eight . you bring in forraine aid to your designes ; first those great forraine forces of divines , with which ships from america were fraught ; rather may stinking tobacco still be brought from thence , i say ; next ye the scots invite , which ye terme brotherly assistan●e right ; for with them you intend england to share : they , who , alas , but younger brothers are , must have the monies for their portion ; the houses and the lands will be your owne . we thanke ye for the wounds which we endure , whil'st scratches and slight pricks ye seeke to sure . we thanke ye for true reall feares at last , which free us from so many false ones past . we thanke ye for the bloud which fats our coast , ( that fatall debt paid to great straffords ghost . ) we thanke ye for the ills receiv'd , and all which by your diligence in good time we shall . we thanke ye , and our gratitude 's as great as yours , when you thank'd god for being ●eat . a. c. finis . the pvritanes impvritie, or, the anatomie of a puritane of separatist by name and profession wherein is declared the differences betwixt a true protestant and a pvritane, made manifest by the sincerity of the one and hypocrisie of the other : likewise the comelinesse and necessity of reverence used in the performing of the service of god, especially at the receiving of the sacrament / by john harris gent. harris, john, gent. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a45648 of text r10876 in the english short title catalog (wing h860). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 16 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a45648 wing h860 estc r10876 12827829 ocm 12827829 94302 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a45648) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 94302) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 255:e173, no 8) the pvritanes impvritie, or, the anatomie of a puritane of separatist by name and profession wherein is declared the differences betwixt a true protestant and a pvritane, made manifest by the sincerity of the one and hypocrisie of the other : likewise the comelinesse and necessity of reverence used in the performing of the service of god, especially at the receiving of the sacrament / by john harris gent. harris, john, gent. [2], 6 p. printed by t. favvcet, london : 1641. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng puritans -history -17th century. great britain -religion -17th century. a45648 r10876 (wing h860). civilwar no the puritanes impuritie: or the anatomie of a puritane or separatist, by name and profession. wherein is declared the differences betwixt a harris, john, gent 1641 3144 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 b the rate of 3 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-04 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-05 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2005-05 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the pvritanes impvritie : or the anatomie of a puritane or seperatist , by name and profession , wherein is declared the differences betwixt a true protestant and a pvritane , made manifest by the sinceritv of the one and hypocrisie of the other . likewise the comelinesse and necessity of reverence used in the performing of the service of god , especially at the receiving of the sacrament . by john harris gent. 1 corinth . 11. vers. 27. for whosoever shall eate this bread and drinke this cup of the lord unworthily , shall be guilty of the body and blood of the lord . london . printed by t. favvcet . mdcxli . the puritane's impuritie . in these preposterous times many vices are predominant but amongst all the whole brood of vices , there is none so great , there is none grown to that height , ther 's none so seprous as this of puritanisme , the errours of which sect by the grace of god , i will plainly anatomize and lay open to the view of all men , but first it is requisite that wee should examine who is pure . secondly , what creatures they are that count themselves pure . thirdly , the effects of their purity , fourthly , their opinions and hypocriticall lives . fiftly , whether the fruit of purity be hypocrisie . sixtly and lastly , the difference betwixt a true protestant and a dissembling puritan , all which points in their order by gods assistance i shall lay open & plainly decipher , with as much brevity as possible i can , desiring all judicious and true protestants , to reade it with as much care , and as free from envie , as i shall expresse in the writing , for god witnesse with me , although i hate their opinions , i love the men , and it shall be mine ( and ought to be the prayer of every true christian ) to god that he would be pleased to illuminate their darkned judgements , to open their eyes and guide their wandring feet into the way of peace , as touching the first point or question who is pure , i hope it is needlesse to tell any beleever , yet i will give you one testimony which shall serve as a prop , unto that man , if there be such a one which shall stagger in his beliefe , and doubt of gods purity , you may read in the 19. psalme the 82. ver. these words , the statutes of the lord are right and rejoyce the heart , the commandement of the lord is pure , and giveth light vnto the eyes , likewise psal. 25. at the 7. ver. gratious and righteous is the lord , for he will teach sinners in the way . so in the 33. psal. at the 34 verse , sing unto the lord a song , sing prayses unto him with a good courage , for the word of the lord is true , and all his workes are faithfull , thus much shall serve as touching this point , which i trust is apparently manifest in every one of our hearts , namely that god is pure , neverthelesse it will aske some labour , to make it apparent , that there is none pure but god , for in these latter times since , ha's got so great a predomination in some mens hearts , and so faire a pretence withall , that they presume to cover all their vicious opinions with the pure mantle of religion , now to prove that there is none pure but god , i might quote many places in scripture , but it were a needlesse labour bestow'd on so worthlesse a subject , onely these 3. shall serve , the first of which , you shall find in the 7. of eccles. at the 20. ver. there is not a just man upon earth that doth good and sinneth not , the second proofe you shall find in the 14. psal. 2. ver. there is none that doth good , no not one . likewise rom. 30. 23. all have sinned and come short of the glory of god . as touching the third point what sort of creatures they are that count themselves pure , namely sinfull men , sons and daughters of adam , we are all heires of originall sinne from our first father , now if we be borne in sinne , if we be spotted with leprosie , we cannot be pure , but per-adventure they will plead that the power of originall sinne and the strēgth of the law was abolisht by christs death , to this i answer , that to all beleevers it was , for christs obedience made full satisfaction for our first parents disobedience , but then how can they cleare themselves from their actuall transgressions , their sins of omission , their sins of commission , their wilfull sins , their sins of ignorance , are those men pure , that produce naught but the effects of impurity , are those men worshippers of god , which worship their owne erroneous opinions , are they lovers of christ which they never saw , yet hate their brothers whom they see daily , are these men pleasers of god , which preferre their own wils before gods pleasure , non est optima quae placet , sed quae decet , that is not best which pleases , but that which becomes thee , now whether it is most becomming to please god or thy selfe , i leave it to thy consideration ; god commands thee to love thy brother , wilt thou hate him , then surely thou preferst thy own pleasure before gods command , but of this anone , moreover christ while he was conversant on earth laboured to convert sinners , i came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance , sayes that physitian of our soules christ jesus , he spent his time in curing the diseas'd , in feeding the poore , in performing good and pious works , now if these men be imitators of christ , we shall suddenly discerne , by their actions , a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit , luke 6. 43. now let us examine the actions of these seperatists alias puritanes , the fruit of a true christian must be faith in christ jesus , secondly , the fruit of that faith must be springing , it must not be a dead faith , now the greatest expression of a lively faith is good works , as you may read in the 2. of st. james , at the 26. ver. as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without good workes is dead , is it so then that charitable workes are the lively fruits of faith , is it so then that faith without good workes is dead , what just cause have we then to feare that those men which terme themselves seperatists , what cause have we j say to feare that their faith is a dead faith , for they are so farre from good workes themselves , that they will perswade others from the exercise of that pious duty , thirdly , the badge of a lively faith is humility , & a reverend zeale in the performing gods service , as we may read a perfect example in christ jesus , who when he pray'd humbled himselfe before his father , as you may see in the 22. chap. luke , ver. 21. and when he was withdrawne from them about a stones cast he kneeled downe and prayed . likewise you may read how humility and reverence was accepted in the publican , when boasting arrogancy was rejected in the proud pharisee , luke the 18. ver. 13. now that these sort of men are proud , may easily be exprest , for they are so farre from humility , that at the receiving of the sacrament which is the greatest and surest meanes of our salvation , they will not vouchsafe to kneele but sit on their cushions or places of ease , they are so lazie , or as we may terme them so extream proud , that they will not vouchsafe to goe to meet christ , but he must come to thē , the people of hierusalem when they heard christ was comming to ye city , they ran to meet him , they strew'd the way , they met him with a song of prayse and thankesgiving , hosana , hosana in the highest , blessed is the king of israel which commeth in the name of the lord , joh. 12. ver. 13. beloved , did these people so extoll the lord ? did they reverence him , did they run to meet him , because they had received temporall blessings of him , because he had cured their lame and given sight unto the blind , and shall not we reverence him , shall not we earnestly run to meet him that heald our leprous soules , that gave eyes of understanding to our blind judgements , that dyed to redeeme us from eternall death , surely beloved if we shall neglect this gratefull duty , these jewes , these people of hierusalem shall rise up in judgement against us , but to my former discourse , our precisians thinke it to much labour , it savors of superstition to come up to the communion table , therefore if the bread and wine which is ye signe of our substantiall savior be not brought to them , they will rather choose to disturbe the whole congregation to make a mutenie in the presence of god then be perswaded from their diabolicall opinions , the next point we are to examine is what sort of men they be that are of this opinion , to wit mechanick persons , for the most part unlectured grooms , coachmen , feltmakers , coblers , weavers , glovers , hauking ironmongers walking after the imaginations of their owne hearts , whose consciences are in a consumption , and wits as rusty as a peece of old iron which has been broken and throwne on the dunghill , these rusty companions are knowne well enough , in every street their abominations breake forth , and like to spreading vlcers infect poore innocent soules , this beguiler sells his pils very cheape , you may buy one for a peny , but take heed , taste it not for if you doe , it will spoyle your common prayer ; but to proceed , that they are ignorant soules , may appeare in this , that they preferre the discipline of ignorant men of their owne society , before the discipline of learned men , they prefer the drosse before the treasure , they prefer a dunce that will flatter and wrest his text according to the fancies of his auditors , before a learned divine , that teaches orthodox doctrine , that will open with the key of knowledge , the cabinet of the scriptures , alas , orthodox doctrine is to cold of disgestion for their queazy stomacks , it is to deepe for them , oh no , it is the language of the beast , and they will not heare it , they will rather forsake the church , and get under a hedge then endure to be told of their iniquities , so much concerning what sorts of people , they are that think themselves pure , next i come to the effects of their purity , they are proud , they are envious , they are enemies to the church , they are enemies to learning , they are selfe-wild , selfe-conceited , they are hearers but not doers , they are covetous , they are lyers , they are persecutors of the poore , oppressors of the needy . in fine , j may say with david , ther 's not one good , no not one , now if this bee the fruit of purity , let all true christians judge , next for their opinions , namely , that it is lawfull to seperate themselves from the wicked , but what availes it to seperate themselves from the performers or actors of iniquity , when they retaine and keep the same iniquity in their hearts , what is it for a man to leave the society of a publique whore , and keepe a private one , what is it to hate swearing and love lying , what is it for me to hate a vice in another , and love it in my selfe , could they separate themselves from their sinnes , as easily as they seperate themselves from the society of the wicked ( as they terme us ) i would be one of their conventicle , but so long as j see so much deceipt , so much poyson in a golden pill , so much basenesse covered under a religions mantle , i le rather choose to be a dore-keeper in the house of the lord , then a bauling pastor in their synagogue , fiftly , for their lives and conversations , they are men which respect their profits above their consciences , for let a man be of what condition soever , if they thinke they can profit by him , then they will expresse a great deale of formality , a great deale of love and kindnesse , but make tryall of their love , and then in verity you shall find them inwardly jewes , though outwardly saints , they are all for profit , nothing for loue , their zeale ha's forgot what st. paul sayes in the 2 chap. 1 epistle of st. john about the 9 , 10 , and 11. verses . he that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darknesse , likewise chap. 3. ver. 15 , whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer , and you know that no murderer hath eternall life abiding in him , but they will say that they doe not hate their brethren but the wicked , to this i answer , so long as they continue in sinne they are brothers unto the most wicked man , and in hating him they hate their brother , for we are all sons of one father , or will you say that all they that are not of your opinion are ye wicked , it does appeare so , for you have seperated your selves from us , and what greater symptome of hate can there be then seperation , but yet take heed , judge not lost you be judged , againe , ha's the wickednesse of the people made the church wicked , why should you hate that , is a surplice , a bug-beare , or is the common prayer of force to blister your precise eares , if you should vouchsafe to heare it , you may read in matth. chap. 24. ver. 28. these words , wheresoever the carkasse is , there will the eagles be gathered together , this carkasse may be termed the word of god , and the eagles all true christians , now if the word of god be taught in the church , let all true christians resort thither , as for them that thinke to goe to heaven blind-fold , let them goe on , let them spend their dayes according to the imaginations of their owne hearts ; let them live securely , yet let them remember that secura vita est mare mortuum , a secure life is a dead sea , let them seperate , let them rayle , let them raigne in vice ; yet let them at last remember , that for all these things they must come to judgement , lastly , the differences betwixt a true protestant and a puritane , are declared in these foure things , a protestant will deale uprightly , a puritan will cozen his father , a true protestant will love his enemy , a puritane will hate every man , a true protestant will serve god devoutly ▪ and expresse it in his life and conversation , a puritane will make a zealous shew of serving god , but expresse the contrary in his life and conversation , a protestant will relieve the poore and fatherlesse , a puritane will oppresse the fatherlesse and widdow , as it is apparent in too many of your zealous professors , but let them take heed that christ pronounce not that judgement against them , which is mentioned in the 25. chap. matth. 45. ver. verily i say unto you , forasmuch as you have not relieved the poorest of my brethren , you did it not to me , therefore these shall goe into eternall torments but the righteous into life eternall , is it so then that the poorest creature is christs brother , is it so that those that have neglected to feed the poore , shall receive that heavy sentence , how much more then are they liable to this bitter doome that have opprest the fatherlesse and widdow , that have sufferd their poore brethren to starve for want of food , that have fed on dilicious , carres themselves , yet not afforded the crums to their brother lazarus , god knowes this duty of charity is cold in all men , especially in this sect , who instead of relieving a poore creature will send him going with , god helpe thee , or it may be they will bestow the title of lazy knave , or counterfeit rascall , but not a farthing , although beg'd for christs sake , i beseech god of his aboundant mercy open their hearts , send downe the heavenly dew of thy mercy upon us and them . that we may no longer be dead in sinne , but spring and flourish and bring forth fruits worthy amendment of life , o shall we love one another , so shall we glorifie thee our god , on earth , and when we dye be pertakens of thy glory in heaven . vve beseech thee to heare us good lord . finis . the law and light within the most sure rule or light, which sheweth the right use and end of the scripture, manifested in opposition to several false principles inserted in a book intitled scripture light the most sure light, by william bridge, the great pastor and reverend father, so accounted, of the church at yarmouth in norfolk / confuted by george whitehead. whitehead, george, 1636?-1723. 1662 approx. 21 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a65872 wing w1940 estc r39128 18216908 ocm 18216908 107196 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a65872) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107196) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1136:17) the law and light within the most sure rule or light, which sheweth the right use and end of the scripture, manifested in opposition to several false principles inserted in a book intitled scripture light the most sure light, by william bridge, the great pastor and reverend father, so accounted, of the church at yarmouth in norfolk / confuted by george whitehead. whitehead, george, 1636?-1723. 8 p. s.n., [london : 1662?] caption title. imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bridge, william, 1600?-1670. -scripture-light the most sure light. puritans -england -controversial literature. society of friends -england -apologetic works. dissenters, religious -england. 2004-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the law and light within , the most sure rule or light , which sheweth the right use and end of the scripture , manifested in opposition to several false principles inserted in a book intituled scripture light the most sure light , by william bridge , the great pastor and reverend father , so accounted , of the church at yarmouth in norfolk . confuted by george whitehead . having lately viewed part of william bridge his book aforesaid , who hath long been esteemed an eminent teacher among many of the professors , and them called independents in england , and having in his book found many false principles and sinful doctrines , contrary to the scriptures of truth , it was upon me in the fear of the lord to lay open some of his principles , that the ignorant may be instructed , and the professors of yarmouth and els-where may not trust in delusion nor in deluders , but cease from man whose breath is in his nostrils , and no longer esteem of any above what they are , but turn to the spirit of the lord as it appears in them , which spirit searcheth all things , and leadeth them into all truth who are willing to be guided by it , whereby they may try all things , both spirits , doctrines and fruits , and hold fast that which is good , which spirit they that hate it and resist the movings of it when it moves against their ungodlinesse and errours , it will be a witnesse against them unto condemnation , and they shall remain in darknesse , and have their portion in darknesse ; so let the professors and people of all sorts consider these things in the fear of god. first i shall lay down one particular for a truth which wil. bridge hath inserted in his book in p. 12. but it is against himself & such as he is , where he saith , pr. that a knowing learned man it may be can utter more of the scripture then he feels , but a good man feels more then he can utter . answ. this is a testimony against himself and his brethren the priests , who are learned men , who utter many things not in the true feeling which the good man is in ; so they are not the good men , for they walk contrary to that which should bring them into the feeling of truth in the inward parts ; & i shall here prove that william bridge is out of the true feeling when he utters such doctrines as he hath done contrary to the truth . pr. from 2 pet. 1.19 . we have also a more sure word of prophecy whereunto ye do well to take heed , w. bridge saith the apostle doth here prefer the written word before a revelation from heaven , now if he do prefer it before a divine revelation , then it is not to give place to the dawning of some special light and revela●ion in the heart , p. 4. answ. in this he hath both perverted the scripture & affirmed that which is fals , for the apostles preferred divine revelation before the writings , as having the things of god revealed in them , before they spoke them forth or wrot of them , and peter saith , the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man , but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost , 2 pet. ● . 2● . so that they first had the prophesies of scripture revealed in them by the holy ghost before they were written , and that word which the apostle directs to was the word of prophecy which was before the words were written , nigh in the heart , and gave place to the dawning of a special light and revelation in their hearts , for it led them to the dawning of the day and the arising of the day-star in their hearts which was christ , for whose revelation they hoped through the word or spirit of prophecy in them , and such did not deny the giving place to the dawning of the special light and revelation in the heart , as w. bridge in his blindness hath done , see mat. 11.27 . 1 pet. 1.13 . 2 pet. ● . 19 . pr. he saith p. 9. i le tell you sayes the apostle what ye shall do whilest ye are in the dark , even take heed to the word written . ans. that 's false , the apostle sayes no such words , neither saies he the word is written but living , and they were to take heed to the word of prophecy which they had as a light that shined in a dark place , until the day-star arose in their hearts ; now they that are in the dark do not understand the scriptures , then how should they take heed to that they know not ? but the light in the heart which shineth in darknesse , before it shine out of darknesse it gives the true understanding ; again william bridge is exceeding dark in counting the word of prophesie the writing or scriptures of the prophets , for the apostles words or writings which testifies of christ as he is come are as sure as the prophets writings ( or more ) so that if he had intended the more sure word to be the scriptures without , he would rather have said ye have a more sure word of the apostles to take heed unto ; and again , the scriptures doth not shine to them that are in darknesse , because they understand them not , but the light shineth in darknesse though the darknesse comprehends it not , and the least measure of the light of christ being waited in by any one , it prophesies of a greater manifestation of light , and leads them that believe in it to the revelation of christ , the power and glory of the father , so that this light in them is more sure to them then a voice or vision which another hath heard or seen which they have not , a manifestation of which light or spirit is given to every man to profit withal , john 1.4 , 5.9 . 2 cor. 4 6 pr. in page 7. he saith , a good man may live and dwell in a place or town where no means of grace are , in a poor dark ignorant corner of the world. ans. this is false doctrine , for the grace of god which brings salvation hath appeared unto all men , titus 2.11 . and this grace is not without some means of it as it doth convince of sin , and teacheth to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts , and it appears with the means of it as to convince of sin and to teach righteousnesse , as thousands do and shall witnesse , and they who will not be taught by it , with it they shall be left without excuse . pr. in page 7. he saith , david thirsted after ordinances , saying , my soul thirsteth after thee o god to see thy power and thy glory , ps. 63.1 , 2. ans. david in thirsting after god and his power and glory , thirsted after that which is beyond all carnal or visible ordinances , and shall remain when all such your ordinances shall fail and have an end ; but now see how plainly william bridge hath in this contradicted himself , for if the scripture be preferred before revelation from heaven , and be not to give place to such a revelation in the heart as he hath affirmed , then what needed david have thirsted to see the power and glory of god , for that is revealed in the hearts of believers , eph. 3.20 . pr. in page 9. and 10. a very good man may be much in the dark , ( temptation time is a dark time ) yet this scripture light he hath alwayes by him , to the law and to the testimony . ans. a very good man is born of god and walketh in the light , and though he be tempted entereth not into the temptation , for the wicked one toucheth him not , as john said , and that is the most sure light to him which keepeth him out of temptations , which light was before the scriptures were , and the law is light , and the testimony is the spirit of prophesie which was in the saints before they wrote the scriptures , which are not the light but testifie of it . pr. page 7. joseph when mary was first with child , he did not know what to do in the case till the angel of the lord appeared to him . ans. which flatly contradicts his former words , for then the angel of the lord and what he revealed to joseph was more sure to him then the scriptures of the prophets , for they did but foretell of christ , but the angel convinced joseph concerning christ , that he must not put away his wife as he would have done , as by the scripture , touching fornication which she was not guilty of , as the angel convinced him , mat. 1.19 . so that revelation was more sure then the scripture . pr. page 10. wicked men have the light of the scripture as a blind man hath the sun , the sun is in the firmament over the head of the blind man , yet it is not light to him . ans. here again william bridge hath contradicted himself , for then the scripture is not the most sure light to the wicked , because the wicked are as far from understanding the scripture , as the blinde man is from seeing the light of the sun , by this mans words , and yet he bids them that are wicked in the dark take heed to the word written , which is no better then to bid a blind man follow the light of the sun , but that is the most sure light which shineth in the hearts , and opens the blinde mans eyes , and brings to divine revelation , which the scripture without doth not , but testifies of the light and of revelations , which the light of christ brings to . pr. page 12. the scripture light is the most excellent safe and sure light , it is the light of lights ; there are many false lights in the world . ans. god is the light of lights , the father of lights , james 1.17 . and not the scripture , for it is the writing not the light , and if god be the fountain of lights , from whence did these false l●ghts come ? surely william bridge hath spoken here much out of the feeling , for that which is false is not the light , though deceit may transform like the light , but no deceit is really light . pr. page 12. in looking in the scripture , this great looking-glass , ye see the truth ▪ that are therein contained concerning god and christ , there is god seen especially , and christ seen , there also you see your selves and your own dirty face , this is that manifesting light under christ. ans. here is confusion and false doctrines added to confusion , for if the wicked have the scripture but as the blind man hath the sun , how should they see their dirty faces in the scriptures , or see the truth , or god or christ in the scriptures , when the heaven of heavens cannot contain god , 1 kings 8.27 . much less the scripture , and he that would here divide the scripture light from christ , as if the scripture light were one and revelation were another , he is blind , for the light which the saints have in scripture is in them , and is the light of christ , without which the scriptures cannot be understood , so that is the manifesting light which gives the true understanding of the scriptures , and the letter or writing not the light . pr. page 15. scripture light is the highest light , scripture dispensation the highest dispensation , the dispensation of visions and revelations was of a lower rank . ans. herein hath william bridge both shewen his ignorance and contradicted his brethren the priests , for many of the priests do account the dispensation of the prophets and apostles of christ , which was a dispensation of visions and revelations , far higher then theirs who now have the scriptures , but do not own revelations to be manifest in these dayes , when as no man knoweth the father but the son , and he to whom the son will reveal him , mat. 11.27 . so william bridge in his counting visions and revelations of a lower rank then the scripture , he might as well say that the knowledge of god and christ which is revealed , is lower then the letter , when as they were in a scripture dispensation , and had the letter of the law and prophets who persecuted christ , and paul was there when a persecutor , but when he received the dispensation of god given him by revelation , whereby he was made a minister , he knew that which was above or beyond the scriptures , even christ revealed in him the mystery , and so preached him unto the gentiles , and did not sleight divine revelation , nor set the letter above it as william bridge hath done , gal. 1. col. 1.27 . 2 cor. 13.5 . pr. page 15. if god should now speak unto you by visions or visional revelations , how would you know that this were the voice of god but by the scripture , and who doth not know that the devil will speak an hundred truths . ans. here his grose ignorance of the voice of god is seen , for god is able to manifest his own voice to them that have not the scriptures without , as he did before they were written , and the sheep of christ knows and hears his voice ; what doth william bridge believe that the sheep of christ must all go to the scripture without , and try his voice thereby , when the devil can speak scripture or a hundred truths ? then what must try the devils voice , and how then must they try voyces and spirits that cannot read the scriptures ; now all that own the spirit of truth which searcheth all things , whereby words voyces and spirits are to be tryed , they may soon see the priests ignorance in these things . pr. pag. 18. i am to be so far from desiring god to speak in this way of a vision , as i am bound rather to be backward to it . ans. here william bridge his desires are contrary to the true ministers desires , for they went on to visions and revelations , and preached what god had revealed by his word in them , but in this he hath manifested himselfe to be like the priests of old , from whom the vision was departed , and the day was become dark over them that they might not have a vision , and where there is no vision the people perish , mica 3. 2 cor. 12.1 . pr. pag. 18. if any have a revelation to try or confirme any gospel doctrine , 't is a delusion of satan . ans. which is quite contrary to the apostles doctrine , for they taught them that had revelation to try all things and hold fast that which is good . 1 thes. 5.21 . and by the revelation of christ they witnessed the doctrine of the gospel confirmed and fulfilled in them , and this is no delusion , so that this priest might as well have said that the knowledge of god is a delusion , for it comes by revelation and confirmes gospel doctrine . pr. pag. 27. he saith the light and law within us here is imperfect , the law of grace within , & the light within is not able to convince others . ans. which are both false , for the law and light of the lord is perfect , and by this light within are many convinc'd of their evil deeds , and reproved for them , and things that are reproved are made manifest by the light , & who ever speaks to the convincing others it must be from the light within which is perfect , as every gift of god is perfect , eph. 5.13 . col. 3.16 . pr. though the law and light and spirit within us be a principle of good , yet it is not the rule of our goodness or lives . ans. herein william bridge hath plainly contradicted himself , for he confesseth in pag. 28 that the inward law and light discovers those heaps of sin that are in the soul , and doth not onely incline a man unto what is good , but it inables him thereunto ; then i say , that the inward light both discovering sin , and inclining and inabling man to that which is good , it must be the rule of their lives , for the spirit of truth leadeth into all truth , john 1.6.13 . which is more then the scripture will do , though we truly own the sripture in its place as it testifies of the truth , and against sin in the generall , yet the light within must be the more sure rule , for it shewes unto particular men their particular sins , and shews unto them wherein they are guilty , and opens their eyes and sheweth them the way to life which is christ , who enlightens every man coming into the world , and this is more then all outward words or writings . pr. in pag. 29 , william bridge saith , if the law and light and spirit that is in me be my rule , then i may do any thing without sin , i may whore , be drunk , steal or any thing without sin , but the law , light and spirit may command me to do such things as these . ans. here 's heaps of confusion & horrible blasphemy , for before he confessed that the inward law and light doth both incline a man to what is good , and inables him to it , and that it is a great help to us in our way to life , and against this william bridge in pag. 29 saith , that the law or light or spirit within you is christ in you , so you may see how horribly he hath blasphemed against christ , in making him the author or commander of whoredome , drunkenness and stealing , as by his words appeare , when as christ condemns all unrighteousness , and all that own christ in them for their guide and rule , they witness that he is come to condemn sin in the flesh , and not to lead them into whoredome and drunkenness , nor any sin , for he purgeth throughly them that receive him , mat. 1.21 . and 3.12 . rom 8.1 , 2 , ● . pr. if the law and light and spirit that is in me be my rule , then i am my own rule , and so i am god. ans. this is false and absurd , and contradicts his own words , for he confessed that the law or light or spirit within is christ , now then if christ be my rule , i am not my own rule , nor am i god ; for he that hath christ to rule him , is not ruled by himselfe but by christ in him , whereby he is come to deny himselfe and to follow christ. pr. pag. 30 , he saith , the scripture is the first ground of our faith and hope . ans. then christ is not your ground nor hope who are out of the apostles doctrine , for they witnessed that another foundation could no man lay then that which is laid , which is christ , who was in them their hope , and the author and finisher of their faith , 1 cor. 3. ●1 . heb. 12.2 . pr. pag. 32. humane reason is a beam of divine wisdom , yet if it be not inlightened with a higher light of the gospel , it cannot reach unto the things of god. ans. here 's both falsehood and absurdity , for a beam of divine wisdom is not humane but divine , as the wisdom is from whence it comes , and a beam of divine wisdom need not higher light then that wisdom , by which wisdom the things of god are reached and known , now he is exceeding blinde who cannot discern humane reason which is earthly and corruptible , from the divine wisdom , which is incorruptible and eternall . pr. pag. 33. t is revelation light from the gospel that doth bring to heaven . ans. so now at length he hath granted to the truth ; but in this he hath overthrown all his former doctrine against revelation , wherein he did set the scripture above revelation , and would not have scripture to give place to the dawning of the speciall light and revelation in the heart ; but now is the light of the gospel which is the power of god revealed in his people , which hath discovered the blindness and ignorance of all such blind leaders who are ignorant of the light and law of god within , and who are against the knowledge of god in their preaching against divine revelation , concerning which william bridge hath so largely shewen his grosse darkness and blasphemies ; and this may be a warning to all his hearers , & all professors who are not wilfully blind to be awakened and cease from such blind watchmen and pastors , who have long fed themselves and not the flocks , and come to christ the true shepherd and pastor who will feed his flock himselfe . this in tender love was i moved to give forth for the simple ones sake that they may be undeceived ; and let none at the reading hereof be offended at what i have charged against william bridge aforesaid , for i am willing ( if the lord so order me , and give me an oportunity ) publickly to prove that he leads the people besides the wayes of god , and teacheth errour in stead of truth ; this i am willing to prove to his face if the lord so order me , if william bridge would stand a fair dispute with me publikly , and stand to his own doctrines ; many more of whose false doctrines i could manifest in his book , which at present i omit the end . to his reverend and much respected good friend, mr. john goodwin: be these i pray presented. vicars, john, 1579 or 80-1652. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a95901 of text r212477 in the english short title catalog (thomason e259_3). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 24 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a95901 wing v331 thomason e259_3 estc r212477 99871085 99871085 123483 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a95901) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 123483) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 44:e259[3]) to his reverend and much respected good friend, mr. john goodwin: be these i pray presented. vicars, john, 1579 or 80-1652. taylor, daniel, ca. 1614-1655. 8 p. s.n., [london : 1645] signed on page 4: iohn vicars. caption title. imprint from wing. includes: taylor, daniel. to his much respected friend mr. iohn vicars [signed on page 8: d.t.]. annotation on thomason copy: on page 1: "feb: 11th 1644"; on page 8: "dan: taylor". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. -innocency and truth triumphing together. puritans -controversial literature -early works to 1800. independent churches -england -early works to 1800. congregationalism -early works to 1800. a95901 r212477 (thomason e259_3). civilwar no to his reverend and much respected good friend, mr. john goodwin:: be these i pray presented. vicars, john 1645 4305 6 0 0 0 0 0 14 c the rate of 14 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-10 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-10 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to his reverend and much respected good friend , mr. john goodwjn : be these i pray presented . reverend sir , having lately received from you , by the hands of my loving neighbour and friend , mrs. ducker , a both undeserved and unexpected favour , one of your last books , intituled , innocencie and truth triumphing together ; i acknowledge it a just engagement of obliged gratitude , and therefore , accordingly , i do here return you deserved and most humble thanks for the same , by the same friendly hand . and because ( worthy sir ) i conceived and considered with my self , that you sent it by way of love and desire to give me ( who am , as i acknowledge , a poor and unworthy presbyterian ) satisfaction , if it might be , touching your independent church-way : i having now perused it all over , even à capite ad calcem ( and i hope with that pietie and impartialitie , as my god hath enabled me , which becomes a christian and fellow servant to the same lord jesus christ with you ) i therefore hope you will , not so much pardon ( which i pray not ) as accept ( which i heartily desire ) with christian candor , mine ingenuitie and plain dealing with you , in now giving you an account , briefly , as i thought it most fit , of what light or content and satisfaction i have received from it . truly sir , i having read your epistle to the reader , found therein very full and fair promise of your ingenuous aym and intention in the subsequent discourse , viz. that you projected four things therein , brevitie , perspicuitie , moderation , and satisfaction . but having , i say , perused your book , truly sir , ( if i am not mistaken , as i believe i am not ) you have come extream short of your promised project , in every of the four branches thereof . for first , if i found you short , i am sure i found you sharp and tart ; for perspicuitie , i assure you i found much cloudie obscuritie ; veri similitudinem multam , non ipsam veritatem ; satisfaction , therefore none at all . but especially , in that of projected moderation , and promised temperature in writing , ( the great defect , and foul fault , so cried out upon by independents against all presbyterian writers or speakers ) in stead of moderation i found abundance of bitternesse , and unsavourie jerkes and jeeres ( the light issues me thought , rather of a youthfull green-head , then the solid expressions of such a grave heart ) sprinkled , almost , over all your whole discourse ; which i must confesse much troubled and affected me with wonder to meet with , after such a seeming promise of moderation : some few of very many whereof ( because i knew , dolosus versatur in generalibus ) j have here particularized with their pages where they are evidently and easily to be seen . as first ( to omit your via sanguinea , with all its most bitter and biting , yea sorely wounding expositions of that term , in your theomachia , &c. ) pag. 13. you compare mr. prynn in his reply , to the two false witnesses , who falsly accused our blessed saviour . and in the same page you tell the reader , here mr. prynn vapours in his reply ; immediatly after , in the same page how notably do you jeer and scoffe him about three tabernacles ? and with what an elated spirit do you answer him , page 16. line 4. together with a down-right jeer about a nationall church , some 12 lines after ? you also grossely taxe him with errors , page 17. sect. 21. and page 18. and 19. you frequently jeer him , and amongst those jeers you tell him , that acts 15. is onely mr. prynns gospell ; what a bitter and unchristian censure lay you upon him , and all presbyterians , page 24. sect. 26. towards the end of it ? and o how you jeer him with his quotations , page 37. towards the bottome ; as also page 49. and page 51. you slander him with want of reason and truth too ; and page 52. you tell him , his pen spits black reproches in the face of independents . you also accuse him page 65. of much untruth ; and the same also again most fouly , page 84. together with a notable jeer , exalting your selfe , and vilifying mr. prynn , which i have noted at large in your book , page 85. together with very many other such like expressions , too tedious to be here recited ; and yet ( strange to consider ) you conclude them all ( with the conclusion of your book ) page 99. in a hortatorie way to mr. prynn in these words : that he would put lesse vineger and gall into his inke and more wooll and cotten . and in the apostles words , ephes. 4. 31. that all bitternesse and evill speaking be put away , as becomes brethren . and now any impartiall person may judge , whether you your self have followed this brotherly exhortation ; nay , whether contrariwise , you have not with unbrotherly aspersions , indeavored to besmear the face of that precious gentleman , most worthy ever to be honoured both by you all and us all ? truly sir , you independent gentlemen have dealt with this most worthy servant of the lord , just as the people of lystra did with the apostle paul , whom at first they so honoured and admired , as that they were ready to deifie him and make him a god ; but shortly after , they furiously indeavoured to stone him to death : so ye , at the first , in the time of mr. prynns first most elaborate and learned divine writings , yea and for his most glorious and saint-like sufferiugs ; o then , how ye all ( with us ) most highly ( and that most justly too ) honoured him , and brought him home from bauishment , as it were in the triumphing chariot of your love and praises ! but now , since he hath piously and faithfully written against your independent way , and onely for this , o how have you and almost all of your way , indeavoured as much as in you is , to stone to death his illustrious reputation , by most unworthy and unchristian reviling and vilipending of him , both in words and writings ! even him i say , who for his pietie , humilitie , incomparable constancie , fortitude and magnanimitie in suffering for gospell truths , was not inferiour to any of his most faithfull fellow-sufferers yea , whose soundnesse and sinceritie , whose profound learning and indefatigable labours in writing upon deepest points of divinity and controverted gospel truths ( witnesse his perpetuity of the estate of a regenerate man ; his anti-arminianisme , vnbisboping of timothy and titus , his histri-mastix ; and many other his later , most learned , orthodox and precious peeces ) have made his never-dying name and fame most worthily renowned both in england and other parts of the world , beyond the seas . and yet this noble gentleman to be thus , i say , besmeared and bespattred with your unjust accusations , onely i say again , for writing the truth against independent novelties ; o! it is most sad and bad to consider . truly sir , you must here give me leave to be yet more plain with you , i professe in the sinceritie of my soul , that i do most groundedly beleeve , that ( had mr. prynn been such a non-sense , consciencelesse , irrationall , false and frivolous writer , as you and others of your way only have strugled ( but all in vain ) to make and demonstrate him by your lavish tongues and pens ) that yet , i say certainly , mr. iohn goodwin , was the most unfit man of all i know in london , to lay those undeserved criminations to mr. prynns charge . for , you know good sir , that qui in alterum paratus est dicere , ipsum vitio carere opertet . for you therefore , reverend sir , to take upon you to tax mr. pryn of errours , untruths , and such like , as you have done , how deeply you your self , ( before ever this most unhappy and unhol● difference of independency with presbitery was dreamed of ) have been ceusured both of socinianisme ; ( and how justly too others have most learnedly in publike declared ) and more lately also how you have been discovered to hold a most dangerous , yea a most damnable opinion ( as a learned independent brother of yours termed it in my hearing , and who then said , he would justifie it against you ) touching justifying faith by christ . and now also , how fiercely you are faln on this unhappily disturbant new way of independencie . i beseech you therefore , reverend sir , seriously to consider these things , to muster up your saddest thoughts , and to see into what a labyrinth you are strangely and strongly intricated . sir , i do not , i cannot denie , but ingenuously confesse that god hath given you much learning and eminent parts , but truly sir , if i be not , mistaken , i greatly fear your independent proselites do too much magnifie , if not ( almost ) deifie you for them , and as it was with pythagoras his shollars , an ipse dixit is enough , i , feare for many , if not most of your disciples , jurare in verba magistri ; whereby i pray god , your great parts and gifts bee not ( thus ) a great snare to your soul , which i much feare , if not timely and truely seen into and prevented by cordiall self-deniall , and holy humilitie in your selfe , being more kindely affectioned with brotherly love , and in honour preferring others before your self ▪ rom. 12. 10. and thus , reverend sir , i have made humbly bold , by your own occasion , lovingly and , i hope , fairly and friendly as a true christian brother ought , ( levit. 19. 17 ) liberare animam meam , and thus to manifest my reciprocall love and gratitude unto you , praying our good god it may be accepted with the like right handed christian candor , and simplicitie of heart with which it is sent and intended , i humbly take my leave and rest , sir , yours in our great lord and master christ jesus , to be commanded . iohn vicars . jan. this 18. 1644. imprimatur . ja. cranford . jan. 24. 1644. an answer thereunto . to his much respected friend mr. iohn vicars , these be delivered . ( the author of this following letter , did not intend it for the presse , but sent it to mr. vicars in a private way : but mr. vicars his letter comming forth in print , and divers copies thereof being disperst into severall hands by himself , it was thought fit that this letter should be published also . ) sir , whether it was my good or hard happe to meet with your letter directed and sent to mr. iohn goodwin , i cannot easily determine : for though all manner of knowledge , either of persons or things , be in some kinde or other beneficiall ; it being an undoubted maxime , that verum & bonum convertuntur : yet some knowledge may be so circumstantiated , that it may prove more burdensome and offensive to the party knowing , then commodious . i confesse from the reading of your lines i have gained thus much , to say i know you : but this gain hath occasioned such a considerable losse in the things of my joy , that i doe even wish for my former ignorance , and could be well contented , to have met with no other description of your frame and temper , then what the promise of your countenance , and the report of your friends have made of you : indeed it cannot but deduct somewhat from the comfort of a reasonable man , to see one , whom ( one would thinke ) gray haires should have taught the language of sobernesse , shooting with his tongue at rovers , and speaking sharpe and devouring words against persons and things , which hee knowes not . sorry i am , that mr. vicars should break the fair face of his reputation upon this stone , against which this besotted world is dashing it selfe in peeces from day to day . i have some hope that though your zeale to mr. prinns glory , did cast you into such an extasie of passion , that you scarce knew what you writ ; yet by this time you have pretty well recovered your selfe again : and lest the sense of your miscarriage should too much oppresse you , i give you to know that you are falne into soft and tender hands , and have discovered your nakednesse to such onely , who rather pittie , then deride it . for my part , i love not to disport my selfe at the weaknesse of any man , or to turne his folly into laughter ; for what were this , but to reflect dishonour upon the same nature , wherein he partakes with my selfe . rather , i could mourn over the vanities of your pen , and weep to see you so farre intoxicated , as to call the most injurious dealing one shall lightly meet with , by the name of candor and ingenuitie . the truth is , you have so fouly berayed your paper with bold and untrue assertions , imputations , exprobations , and such like excrements , that i thought even for modestie sake to have drawne over them the veile of silence , and to have contested with that spirit that breathes in them no further , then by speaking to it in a secret wish , the lord rebuke thee . but i considered with my selfe , that perhaps you might communicate in the nature of such persons who ( as solomon saith , prov. 26. 5. ) are apt ( being unanswered ) to be wise in their own conceits : and if i shall hereby demolish or at least weaken this conceit of yours , i presume i shall do you herein a very charitable and christian peece of service . think not i am become your enemeie , because i tell you the truth : you have injured me no other waies then by trespassing upon your own credit , and by making thereby a sad breach in that holy profession , wherein you stand ingaged with my selfe . what ever your intentions were , i conceive you have done me no more wrong in clapping the title of an independent proselyte upon my back , then pilate did to christ in affixing this superscription over his head , this is the king of the iews . i think this name to be full as honourable , as that of a poore and unworthy presbyterian , wherewith you have pleased to baptize your selfe : and conceive that herein only you have followed your owne , or rather the apostles counsell , in honour to preferre others be●ore your selfe . but had you been minded to suppresse your name , your very dialect had been enough to betray you : me thinkes you write just like such a one as you say you are . did i not hope for better things from the hands of more worthy presbyterians , your unworthy dealing had set me off ten degrees further from your way , then now i stand : but i will not take the advantage of your , or any mans misdemeanor , though more grosse and absurde then yours to render pesbytery odious to the world : to cloath any opinion or practice with the garments of mens personall distempers , thereby to fall upon them and beat them with the more applause , is a method which i as much abhorre , as the gentleman you admire , delights in : and if this property in him were one of those beauty-spots which ravished you into a passionate adoration of him , you need not fear , that ever i should become your corrivall : and yet i love and honour mr. prynn for what ever you can finde lovely and honourable in him : i cannot denie but that in some of his workes , he hath acquitted himselfe upon commendable termes ; but to say that in all things , he writes after the rate of a god , when in many things he falls beneath the line of a man , is to make him and my selfe obnoxious to the wrath of god , and the scorne of man . i acknowledge that for a time he ran well , but who hindred him ? questionlesse he who is ever and anon hindring the saints in the race of holinesse . the prince of darkenesse owed him a fall for his sharpe contesting with his prime agents , and now hee hath payed his debt ; but if mr. prynn will bee ruled by the advice of his best friends , hee may rise again to his greater glory , and notwithstanding his fall , triumph over the envy and malice of the devill . concerning mr. iohn goodwin , ( over whom you shake the rod of your reproofe , as if he were one of your schollers ) i could speak as high and excellent encomiums , as you have spoken of your preci●us gentleman ; i could compare him even with mr. prynn himselfe : but such a comparison as this , would bee to mee most odious . i could tell you what hee hath done , what hee hath writ , how deeply hee hath suffered from unreasonable men ; yea , i could give you such a lively and bright description of him , as would dazle your eyes to look upon , and make you blush for shame to have grapled with such a person as he is , upon such rude and unmannerly termes as you have done . for you , who are but a teacher of boyes , so haughtily to correct a great master in israel , is such an absurdity , as cannot but rend a more patient soule then mine , into disdaine and griefe . t is a wonder to me , that , whereas at the beginning of your letter , you confesse your selfe to bee but a poore and unworthy presbyterian , you should so far forget your selfe before you come halfe way , as to take upon you , like the dr. of the chaire ; and to censure the best of men and wayes with as much confidence , as if your pen had dropt the votes of a generall assembly with its inke . had a poore and unworthy independent done the like , you would have cast this boldnesse into a basiliske , and used it to batter down the way of his profession , and to lay the glory of it even with the ground ▪ but i well perceive , though you have scap't the snare of gifts and parts ( in which you fear mr. goodwin is taken ) yet you are falne into the pit , not of divine , but naturall simplicity ; and have verified the old proverb , a rash mans bolt is soone shot . as for that book of mr. goodwins , called innocencie and truth triumphing together , though you are pleased to triumph over both , and to cast it out as an arch-rebel to reason and morality , yet ( i must tell you ) it hath found joyfull and bountifull entertainement in the judgements of sober and intelligent men : but certainly , it was the unhappinesse of this treatise to fall into your hands , when you stood upon the mount of mr. prins honour , and when the vision of his transfiguration wrought so strongly in you , that you did not wot , what you spake , no , nor what you did neither , for you laid about you with such regardlesse fury that you broke the head of your friend priscian , * of whose safety men of your profession , should be most tender . i thought to have argued the case with you , whether your exceptions against this treatise and its author , will hold in the court of reason and equity : but perhaps you are not so well skilled in the rules of this court ; and i am loath to take the advantage of you . i shall only propound a few querees , peradventure the struglings of your thoughts to give them satisfaction , may dissolve the inchantment that is now upon you . what persons did ever most learnedly declare mr. goodwin to be justly censured for socinianisme ? when , or in what publique place did they make this declaration ? how call you that brother of his , who will justifie against him the charge of holding a most damnable opinion about justifying faith ? i suppose you must strain , not so much your memory as your invention , in shaping your answer : you had done well to remember , that though fooles ( as solomon speaks ) beleeve every thing ; yet wise men will question such assertions as these : alas ( sir ) the best course you can run to gaine credit with the prudent , is to cut your allegations and your proofes , just of one and the same length : to cloath large and broad sayings with curtaild arguments , reflects as much shame upon such sayings , and him that speakes them , as hanun did upon the servants of david● in cutting off their garments to their buttocks . you cannot but know , how that many grave , sober , godly , and learned men have falne into that way you call independencie . now , your onely method , to have brought over these to your partie , and to have filled their mouthes with the cry of a confederacy against this way , had bin this ; not barely to have affirmed it to be a novell and disturbant way ( as you have done ) but to have poysed the lightnesse of your affirmation , with the weight and substance of a demonstration . i assure you ( sir ) ( what ever you may thinke ) i approve of this way no further then i see the footsteps of those sweet sisters , truth and peace printed in it : i have narrowly view'd it , and i can finde no drops of blood , no strewings of the liberties , estates , names , comforts of the saints scattered in it , and yet some travellers affirme , they have seen such things as these in that way , which the ignorance of thousands lust after . but to conclude , i beseech you ( sir ) bee more watchfull over the extravagancies of your tongue and pen for the future : since you are ( in part ) acquainted with their infirmities , let it be your wisdome to seek their cure . i reverence you for age , piety , and some services you have done to the publique ; and i should rejoyce to see such an ancient standard in the garden of god as you are , carrying your hoary head with honour to the grave : which that you may doe , as i have ( you see ) in part indeavoured , so i shall further prosecute with my prayers to him , who is able to keep you to the end : in whom ( though i am unknown to you ) yet with all sincerity i professe my selfe , sir , a cordiall well-wisher to your peace and credite : d. t. january 27. 1644. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a95901e-1100 * the words in the written coppy of his letter , are these , and thus spell'd , qui in alterum paratus est dicere , ipsum vicio careat oportet , as may appeare from the originall in mr. goodwins custody . but it seemes the corrector being the better grammarian transform'd them into good latine in the printed copie . ] master edmund calamies leading case calamy, edmund, 1600-1666. 1663 approx. 26 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-11 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a32039 wing c258 estc r7623 13131749 ocm 13131749 97865 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a32039) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 97865) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1546:8) master edmund calamies leading case calamy, edmund, 1600-1666. 16 p. [s.n.], london printed : mdclxiii [1663] imperfect: print show-through with loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng puritans -england. church and state -england. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-08 melanie sanders sampled and proofread 2004-08 melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion master edmund calamies leading case . behold how he seeketh a quarrel against me ? london , printed in the year , mdclxiii . mr. edmvnd calamies leading case . lord mayor's officer with a warrant . for as much as i have received a certificate from , and under the hand and seal of the right reverend father in god , gilbert lord bishop of london , that mr. edmund calamy late curate of the parish church of st. mary aldermanbury , in the said city of london being ( according as is provided and enacted by the late act of parliament made for the vniformity of publick prayers , &c. ) by reason of his inconformity disabled to preach or read any lecture or sermon in any church or chappel within his majesties realm of england , or dominion of wales , and town of berwick upon tweed , and continuing and remaining still so disabled , did since the feast of st. bartholomew last past , upon two several daies , viz. on tuesday the twenty sixth day of august last past , and upon sunday the twenty eighth day of december , 1662 in the said church of st. mary aldermanbury , presume , and take upon himself ( without any lawful approbation and licence thereunto ) to preach or read , and did preach or read two several sermons or lectures publickly before the congregation , then , and there in the said church assembled , contrary to , and in contempt of authority of the said act of parliament : these are therefore ( as i am required by the said act ) in his majesties name to will and command you to receive into your custody within the gaol of newgate , the body of the said edmund calamy brought unto you herewith , and him there detein for the offence aforesaid , for the term of three months from the day of the date hereof , without bayl or mainprise , according to the tenor and effect of the act of parliament aforesaid . and this shall be your warrant therein , dated this fifth day of january , 1662. church-members . far be this from you , good sir , spare your self , and retire until this calamity be overpast . come my people , enter thou ●nto thy chambers , and shut thy doores about thee : hide thy self as it were for a little moment , until the indignation be overpast . mr. calamy , what mean you to weep , and to break mine heart ? for i am ready not to be bound onely , but to dye for the lord jesus . brethren . now you will not be perswaded , we must cease , and say , the will of the lord be done . calamy . the lord jesus did not hide himself when he was to be taken for me , but said , here i am : i will not hide my self now i am to be taken for him , but will say , here i am : only i shall entreat some of your company , to my lord mayor , to whom you may give an account of that daies proceeding . brethren . with all our hearts : — lord mayor . as i would upon other occasions have been glad , so really i am now sorry to see you mr. calamy : equally sorry i am , that i must inflict such a punishment ( as i am obliged by the act ) upon a person of your years and profession ; and that such a person should dese●ve it : in charity i could not think your conscience could have allowed you at any time , so open an affront to the most solemn establishment of authoritie : i● reason i could not think your prudence could have allowed it at this time , when his majestie was so f●ll of gracious thoughts towards you , and all sober men of your way . calamy . in prudence i should not at this time have displeased his majestie : in conscience i cannot at any time displease god. lord mayor . i hope his majesties government is so just , so moderate , so agreeable to the great principles of religion and reason , upon which mankind joyn in a society , or christjan . in a church ; that there is no discreet and knowing person put upon the sad dilemma of either provoking god , or opposing the authority ordained of god. calamy . necessity is layd upon us , yea , woe unto us if we preach not the gospel . that you may have a reason of that which was done by me , and so may not think i did it unwarrantably , i offer your consideration what hath been much upon my spirit , from the 5. of the acts , as the apostles taught the people , the priests , the sadduces , the captain of the temple , came upon them , being grieved that they taught the people : and they layd hands on them , and layd them in hold against the next day : howbeit , many of them which heard the word believed , and the number of the men was about five thousand . and when they had called them before them , they asked them by what power , or in what name have you done this ? then peter filled with the holy ghost , said unto them : ye rulers of the people , and elders of israel , if we be examined this day of the good deed that we have done ; be it known unto you all , we have done it it in the name of the lord jesus christ. and when they saw the boldnesse of peter and john they marvelled , and they took knowledge of them . but when they had commanded them to go aside out of the councel , they conferred among themselves , saying , what shall we do to these men ; for that indeed notable things have been done by them , is manifest to all them that dwell at ierusalem , and we cannot deny it : but that it spread no further among the people , let us straitly threaten them that they speak henceforth to no man in this name . and they called them , and commanded them , that they should not speak at all in the name of jesus . but peter and john answered and said unto them : whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto god more than unto you , judge ye ; for we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard : so when they had further threatned them , they let them go , finding nothing how they might punish them , because of the people . l. b. l. if it were not our businesse rather to manifest our obedience to the act of uniformity in performing duty , then to dispute your disobedience in neglecting yours , we could easily show you how many waies you have wrested this scripture , as the unlearned and unstable wrest them , to their own damnation : and how wide your case is from theirs . for 1. they were silenced by no l●w ; you are silenced by a law : they could say with st. paul , acts 25. 8. for them●elves , and answer , that neither against the law of the jewes , nor against the temple , nor against caesar , have we offended at all . you must confesse , that against the law of the nation , against the church , and against caesar , in many things have you offended all . 2. they were forbid to preach in the name of jesus . you are onely forbid to rebel in the name of jesus : they were restrained from publishing the truth : you are restrained onely from publishing errors . 3. there the whole ministry was to be silenced : here you onely , and a few others , are suspended : so that now christ is preached , and you may rejoice . 4. they were suspended by the prevailing power of oppressions : you are silenced by the reasonable power of your own representatives in parliament . ●ewes silenced them without a law ; you by a law , which the men you have chosen have made , have silenced your selves . 5. a necessity which lay upon them , who were called of god , to reveal the gospel which was hid from ages ; doth not ly upon you , who many of you , are not so much as called by man to preach that word ; which for many years . god be thanked , hath dwelt richly among us . 6. they loved not their life unto the death , that they might preach the gospel ; you love your opinion so well , that you will rather not preach the gospel then hear it : they would not be silenced to save their lives , you silence your selves to ●al●● your r●pute and esteem . mr. calamy . o add not reproach unto affliction ▪ o sir , we would not have left our callings and stations for fear of death , we must now leave them for fear of that which is worse then death : we would willingly die rather then not serve the lord in our calling : we must rather not serve the lord in our calling then sin . an honest man. really i am afraid that while you think you avoid sin by refusing ceremonies which are indifferent , you committed sin in neglecting your calling , which was necessary . mr. calamy . let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind : what is but indifferent in your apprehension , was sinful in mine , and every man must give an account of himself . b.s. it is not what you think of the thing imposed can secure your conscience , but what they are ▪ that which is good remains good , and that which is evil , evil : and that in the very same degree of good and evil as it was before , neither better nor worse , any mans particular judgement or opinion thereof notwithstanding . mr. calamy . that 's true indeed , yet what is good or indifferent in it self , if i am perswaded it is evil , it is evil unto me : to him that esteemeth any thing to be unlawful to him it is unlawful , rom. 4.14 . b.s. to him th●● thinketh a thing unlawful , and is at liberty , whether he doth it or no , to ●im it is unlawful : but to him that thinketh a thing unlawful , bu● yet is enjoyned by lawful authority to do , to him if he hath not a clear rule to the contrary , it is l●wful . wh●tsoever it co●●●●ded us by those whom god hath felt over us 〈◊〉 in chur● , common-wealth , or family , which is not evidently contrary to the law and will of god , ought to be receivved and obeyed no otherwise , then as if god himself had commanded it ; because god himself hath commanded us to obey the higher powers , and to submit our selves to their ordinances , rom. 13. 1. 1 pet. 2.13 . mr. calamy . i hope i must not go against my conscience within me , to comply with my superiours above me . b.s. what a strange thing is this ! that when the blessed apostle commanded you to obey for conscience sake , you should disobey , and that for conscience sake too : your governors charge you upon your conscience to be obedient , and you pretend your conscience to be free from that subjection : it is a sad thing that you have brought your selves and other poor souls to such ● strait between two sins , and you can by no means possible avoid both , as long as you persist in this way ; for if you do the things commanded , you go against the perswasion of your own conscience , and that is a great sin ; and if you do them not , you disobey lawful authority , and that is a sin too . mr. calamy . truly neither fancy , faction , nor humor makes me not to comply , but meerly for fear of offending god : and if after the best means used to satisfie my self ; as prayer to god , discourse , study , i was not able to apprehend the lawfulness of what was required ; if it be my unhappiness to be in an error , surely men will have no reason to be angry vvith me in this vvorld , and i hope god vvill pardon me in the next . mr. s●rin . when i vvas called upon either to conform to the lavvs for uniformity , or to leave my ministry , i asked of my self tvvo things , whe●her i would rather suffer death then use the thing● imposed in a church professing the foundation , and urging them as things indifferent , not pressing them as binding consciences in themselves , or as needful to salvation ? and whether the execution of my ministry ( which was pressed upon my conscience with ● wo , if i neglected it ) should be as dear to me as my life . p.s. good god , to see to what pass small errors have brought us ! how difference of apprehension hath brought forth difference of judgment : and difference of judgment bath brought forth difference of practice , and disagreement of affection . the difference of practice hath moved authority to silence and suppress refusers of conformity . the disagreement in affection doth move you who are deprived , to speak and act against persons in authority ; whereby in the event the course of the gospel is interrupted , and of popery enlarged ; the friends of sion are grieved , the enemies rejoyce ; the enemy of mankind is gratified , and the lord is displeased ; the church is rent with schism , the truth scandalized by dissention ; the ministers undone by loss of living , and the unity of brethren living in the same house , professing the same faith and rejoycing in the same hope , is pulled in pieces , and this like to continue god knows how long . mr. calamy . it is sad that magistrates should enjoyn such things as should cause such divisions as cause great thoughts of heart . b.s. it is sad indeed that subject● cannot submit to such things as are enjoyned for peace , order , and decency . l. m. i wonder you should not consider how dangerous it should be to affront the most solemn injunction of the whole nation , a law so universally desired , so deliberately resolved on , so seriously pressed , as the greatest security of church or state. mr. calamy . i was several times persecuted for owning his majesties authority and interest . i did not think i should live to be imprisoned for opposing it . sr. t. e. the more favour his majestie had for you for former service , the more sorry he is that you have forfeited it by your presen● and 〈◊〉 . his majestie thought that mr. calamy would not have 〈◊〉 so , of any man in england . mr. calamy . really i did not do it upon mine own head , but upon the request of divers honourable and worthy persons who were otherwise like to be disappointed of a morning sermon . sr. r.b. it is generally reported , and upon the extraordinary concourse of people to your church , as generally believed that it was designed before hand ; several citiz●n● inviting one another to your church to hear you preach . mr. calamy . it might be a design upon me , it was no design by me : this is not the first time we have been tr●panne● . t.f. there are few that know you that can allow you so much indiscretion as to yeild to the private importunities of a few gentlemen , against the publick authority of a whole parliament . mr. calamy . i may say ( with reverence to the lord jesus , of whom it is written ) that i had compassion of the multitude , who were as sheep without a shepherd . e.w. you would have taught the people better by your silence , then by your sermon : your obedience had been better than sacrifice ● the misguided throng had been better taught by your cheerful submission to authority , then by your indiscreet discourse against it . when you had been importuned to preach , you should have said ; i pray you go home and learn what that m●aneth , submit your selves to every ordinance of 〈◊〉 for the lord's sake , whether it ●e the king as supream , or 〈◊〉 governor● 〈…〉 them who are sent by him for the punishment of evil doers , and for the praise of them 〈◊〉 do well , for so is the will of god● that wish well doing we may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , as free and using your liberty as a cloak of ●icenti●●●ness , 〈…〉 wherefore ye must needs be subject not only for w●●th , but for conscience s●ke , 〈◊〉 13.5 mr. calamy . i hope an offence of this nature may be passed by , being so innocent in the design of it , so harmless in the consequence of it . w.f. how harmless it is in the design of it , be it between you and your god and soul : how dangerous it is in the consequence of it , any man may guess that considers what encouragement it may give your party , if you are not punished ; and what offence it may give them if you are . if you are winked at , why say others , are we not winked at too , without respect of persons . if you are punished , then they say , we are persecuted . it is sad that you are become such an occasion of offence between the king and his good people . mr. calamy . i hope i am not so unhappy . t.m. you were looked upon as the fittest man to break the ice , being a man so much esteemed for your own worth , and so much interessed in honourable friends and acquaintance . for as formerly cartwright was encouraged by the e. of lecester , travers was entertained by the l. treasurer cecill , walsingham was owned by secretary walsingham ; so you stir up your honourable women , and look for the favour of many excellent personages . mr. calamy . i hope his majesties gracious declaration may excuse me . f.h. when my lord of london acquainted his majestie with what you had done , his majestie said , i am sure he hath no encouragement to , if from my declarati●n : his majestie never intended any favour of this nature to you● and i fear this p●ssage will obabstruct that favour he intended . mr. calamy . so far i hope may this passage be from prejudicing his sacred majesty against us●● that it may rather incline him to favour us : considering the necessity he hereby may perceive of our service , and the reasonableness of his indulgence . m. o. flatter not your self with these v●in thoughts ; his majesty may pity you , but he doth not want you . god hath sent his word , and great are the company of preachers . mr. calamy . let not the rigour of one session restrain those whom the indulgence of another may release . n.p. it is a question whether the same parliament may repeal the act that made it : whether those things that have been over-ruled , may be debated by the same house . mr. calamy . i hope that what a popish priest may do without check , a protestant minister may do without imprisonment . r.b. neither the one nor the other may be endured to seduce the people , and with fair words to deceive the hearts of the simple , if any man teach any other doctrine , and consent not to wholesome words , &c. mr. calamy . i hope his majesty will use his interest with the parliament . a.c. you of all men should not expect it , who complained of his late majesties protecting delinquents against his parliament . a brother . it is an unheard of course that the church should be governed by civil laws , and ministers punished by lay-men . an honest man. since the reformation , by your leave and the papists , we have owned his maj. under christ , defender of our faith , and law-maker of our church : the church directs , the state establisheth . good women . al●s , that they should use the good man so unworthily and hardly ! a.b. when mr. calamy and mr. love , &c. were under restraint , and word was sent to the army in scotl. concerning it , harrison and others said , if godly men transgress the law , they should be punished by the law good w. alas what harm hath the good man done ? r. l. in short he abused the kings authority , he hath broken the settled law , he hath vilified the power of parliam . he hath disturbed the publick peace , he stands to the principles of the rebellion , and provokes another . good wo. i wonder what he preached ? a.b. he preached that glory was departing from our isr. good w. these courses will bring us to another war. a.b. not so we hope . what , will you endanger the publick peace rather then be restrained ? will you not scruple at rebellion , who scruple at a few ceremonies ? what would you do if you had power in your own hands , that are so bold without it ? shall the minor part impose upon the major ? shall a novel fancy bear down an apostolical institution ? shall a private opinion contest with a publick law ? g.w. alas that our teachers are removed into corners . a.b. our dangers begin at the pulpit , without the aid of seditious sermons , i do believe the strife had never come to bloud : he was a wise man that said , the single imprisonment of crofton hath quieted that party more then all the multiplied and transcendent favors of his majesty . good w. these are sad times . a.b. say not that the former times were better then these , for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this thing : when you guided the times others complained ; now others guide the times , you complain ; when shall we be quiet , i think it is our best way to rest where we are good w. good man , he hath discharged his conscience . a. b he hath it may be discharged his conscience , and my l. m. must discharge his : he who in order to the making of good christjan . , makes bad subjects , hath a zeal indeed , but it is seditious ; a religion , but it is rebellion . g.w. now you suffer for righteousness sake , happy is he . a.b. yes , but what glory have you , if when ye are buffeted for your faults you take it patiently . let none of you suffer as a murderer , or as a thief , or as an evil doer , or as a busie-body in other mens matter . mr. calamy . may i but 〈◊〉 ●espi●ed until ●o mo● row . l.m. yes , with all my heart upon your , and your fri●●ds word . sr. i.b. remember how you prayed , preached , and what you did june 6. 1641. and what was done jan. 6. 1644 , and i pray speak not with argyle as you go home . jeremiah 3●●38 . 1 this man se● hath not the welfare of this people , but their 〈◊〉 . 2 thou fallest away to the caldeans . 3 it s false . i fall not to the caldeans . 4 jeremiah said , what have i do●e against thee ' or against they servants that i should be put in prison . 5 let my supplication i p●ay 〈◊〉 , &c accepted before thee o king. 6 then took they jeremiah and sent him to the dungeon . 7 when ebed●●●lech the ethiopjan . the chamber lain of the kings house heard that they put jeremiah in the dungeon , he spake to the king , saying , my lord the king , these men have done evil in all they have done to jeremiah the prophet whom they have cast into the dungeon , &c. calamy 1 this man envieth the establishment of this nation , and seeks its hurt . 2 thou fallest away to the separation at hemsted . 3 it is false , i kept no convenucle at hemsted . 4 mr. calamy said , what have i done worthy of imprisonment ? 5 let my petition be re●●●ved by your most ●xcellent majestie . 6 then took they m. calamy & sent him to newgate 7 now when l.ch. heard that mr. calamy was in prison , he went to the king , and said , may it please your majesty , it is pity that reverend mr. calamy should be sent to newgate . pana ad unum , terror ad omnes . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a32039-e60 ●f . 26. 20. acts 2 ● , 13. act. 21.14 1 cor. 9.16 acts 14. a sermon preached in saint pavles chvrch the tenth of october, 1641 by mr. thomas chisheare ... ; vvherein are many memorable passages most worthy of serious observations in these times. cheshire, thomas, b. 1600 or 1601. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a32786 of text r18461 in the english short title catalog (wing c3780). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 29 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a32786 wing c3780 estc r18461 12872364 ocm 12872364 94802 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a32786) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 94802) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 255:e173, no 20) a sermon preached in saint pavles chvrch the tenth of october, 1641 by mr. thomas chisheare ... ; vvherein are many memorable passages most worthy of serious observations in these times. cheshire, thomas, b. 1600 or 1601. 16 p. [s.n.], printed at london : 1641. an "imperfect, confused, surreptitious" edition, according to cheshire's preface to the longer authorized edition, also published in 1641, with title : a trve copy of that sermon which was preached at saint pavls the tenth day of october last. this edition wrongly designates cheshire as master of arts from oxford. an attack upon puritan critics of the church of england. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng bible. -o.t. -psalms cxlviii, 12-13 -sermons. puritans -england -sermons. a32786 r18461 (wing c3780). civilwar no a sermon preached in saint paules church the tenth of october. 1641. by mr. thomas chisheare. master of arts of brasennose colledge in oxfor cheshire, thomas 1641 5471 3 5 0 0 0 0 15 c the rate of 15 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2006-07 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-07 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-09 celeste ng sampled and proofread 2006-09 celeste ng text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached in saint pavles chvrch the tenth of october . 1641. by mr. thomas chisheare . master of arts of brasennose colledge in oxford . vvherein are many memorable passages most worthy of serious observations in these times . printed at london in the yeare of our lord 1641. a sermon preached at saint paules church the tenth of october . 1641. vpon psalme . 148. ver. 12. and part of the 13. young men , and maidens , old men , and children , let them praise the name of the lord . my whole alotted time would be to short to stand , either to speak of the pen-man heere the holy prophet david , or this his worke in generall , or this his psalme in particular . for himselfe , he was a man after gods owne heart , that is his greatest title , and he went beyond all the sonnes of adam , who was a king , and a prophet , in all causes , both ecclesiasticall , and pollitique , in foure particulars never yet paralleld ; a shepherd a musition : a souldier : and a prophet . for the first , ye know what service he did , he slew a lion , and a beare , an absolute tipe of death , and hell , to be overcome by this victorious lion , of the tribe of iudah . for a musitian , he was the sweet singer of israel , yea he was able to charme the devill himselfe , and quit that evill spirit which vexed saul . for a souldier , he was most famous , witnesse that battell wherein he slew goliah , and beheaded that great champion of the philistines with his owne sword . for a prophet , none so fully , and so clearly foretels the person , incarnation , passion , and resurrection of christ foretold , as david did : he in his owne person did oftentimes intimate many other men , so that his divine writings are the compendium of all the sacred scripture , it seemes christ himselfe set much by this booke , for you may observe that he used the sayings of the prophet david , more then any other prophet , yea more then all the prophets together , moreover when the devill tempted christ , he arged a text out of this prophet , as if the devill had observed how greatly davids sayings were respected our church considering the usefull excellency of this part of scripture , hath ordained a more frequent use , then of any other part of divine write . but i must stay no longer in the commendation of this our prophet , or his booke of psalmes , he rather bids as practise what we finde written : young men and maidens &c. which wordes are the conclusion of a psalme , which we may not unfitly stile by the name of a divine masque , where is scarce any creature in the whole world but the species are in this psalme . here are angels , and all hosts . sun , and moone , and starres of light . the heaven , and heavens , and the waters that be above the heavens . the earth , the dragons , and all depths . fire , hayle , snow , and vapours and stormy winds . mountaines and all hils , fruitfull trees , and all cedars , beasts , and all cattell , creeping things , and flying foules kings of the earth , and all people , princes , and all iudges of the earth . and in the words of my text , both young men , and maidens , old men , and children , let them praise the name of the lord . you that desire strange , and rare sights , o come hither , and view the whole troope of gods creatures , a chorus that is led by angells , followed by men , and directed by god himselfe , and yet stay not too long in contemplating of them , for thou they selfe also of what degree soever , have a part to act , as well as the rest . young men , and maidens &c. for my better proceeding herein , i shall first observe the connection of these wordes , with the precedent . secondly the duty that is commanded , and that is praise to god . and thirdly the actors , and those are , iuvenes & virgines &c. so that you see the text like the iron gate to peter , opens unto us of its owne accord ; and to looke for more abroad , were like esaw to hunt for venison a farre off , when like iacob , wee may have it neere our hand . i will treat of this text very plainely , for , ita non debet loqui theologus , ut possit intelligi , sed ut non possit non intelligi . first that we may know that this masque is worth our labour , and not unbeseeming so glorious a creature as man is , our prophet shewes us that it befits the angels in heaven , yea it is the height of their felicity , to comfort themselves in anthems of praise to almighty god . so saith saint luk. and suddenly there was with the angels a multitude of the heavenly hosts praising god . the angels leaped out of heaven for ioy , to congratulate mankinde with a morning antheme of praise , and thankes . thus you see the part we have of act is nothing derogatory unto our worth , since the glorious angels themselves are imployed in the same . but to go on , this our prophet shews ; that the very beasts , and trees , and foules can performe that , which the devill would perswade us , is so difficult . the oxe knoweth his owner , and the asse his masters crib , but israel doth not know , my people doth not consider . so heere our prophet would have us to take notice of beasts , and foules of the aire , nay the aire it selfe , wind , and stormes fulfilling his word . christ tels the iewes , that the queen of the south should rise up in iudgement against them at the last day , and not onely the queene of the south , but the arie wind of the south , shall as it were rise up in iudgement against us at the last day , because that also doth performe the will of god ; which man will not doe . now i come to that which i chiefly 〈◊〉 at , young men , and maidens &c. the duty here inioyned , is a duty of praise , but not so much 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 for then the pharisee would have acted his part best : our praise must be both ore , opere , & cora● christ forbidding swearing in that divine sermon of his upon the mount , shewes us a method , how to affirme , or deny any thing , let your communication be yea , yea , nay , 〈◊〉 : for whatsoever is more then these , commeth of evill . on which place ( i remember ) one glosseth well christ doth not intend ( saith he ) that we should pronounce yea twice , or nay twice with our tongues , but that the heart should first consent or refuse , and then the tongue should follow , either in yea or nay , there should be an agreement betweene the tongue , and the heart , let your communication be , yea yea , nay , nay , so likewise in preaching the name of god it must be first performed by the heart , and then ecchoed out by the tongue , and afterward commented upon in all our actions , as yea may see in this psalme , where the prophet calling upon the creatures to praise god , urgeth them thereunto with an argument taken from the wind , and storme , fulfilling his word . so that it is not enough for the wind to whisle , or the raine to rattle , if we should praise god as wee ought , it must by fulfilling his word : what is that instrument of ten strings which our prophet , speaketh of but the devout heart of a christian , tuned , and rightly set to the ten commandements ? this musick sounds sweetest in the eares of heaven , so saith saint augustine more at large in that excellent worke of his , de decem chordis . good works should say to orall confession as ruth did to naomi , and ruth said intreat me not to leave thee , or to returne from following after thee , for whither thou goest i will goe , &c. and where a godly conversation doth not concomitate orall confession , that praise sounds harsh in the eares of god , ergo ( as the father saith ) noli 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we must have brace-lets as well as earerings , good deeds as well as courteous language : or the ornament which our spirituall isaack gives to his rebechah , and which he most esteemeth ; these are they which make him take pleasure in our beauty , therefore let us take pleasure not onely to speake , and heare , but do the same : for this is truely to praise the name of the lord , and as we must praise god in thought , word , and worke , we must labour to keep an agreement between them all ; for if one onely string be out of tune , although all the rest be rightly set , yet this one will so jar , that the lesson playd upon it , to a skilfull eare , will sound as bad as if all were out of tune . if thou doest forsake drunkennesse , whoredome , or such like , and yet dost cleave to covetousnesse , it comes all to on reckoning , for he that offends in one point , is guilty of all , ( saith the apostle ) looke therefore to thy bosome sin , and never leave striving untill thou quite extirpate the same . how many are there of us , that will pray in necessity , but will not praise in prosperity . the husband-man so long as the corne is growing , will hedge and fence the field , with all care , and dilligence : but when it is reaped then he lets it lye open , for hogs , and other beasts to treade , and trample in . when we have what we looked for , then welet the reine slip , in a storme we would be glad to shelter our selves under the branches of that tree : which afterward we are ready to cut downe ; and burne it . after the same manner the ungratefull athenians delt with themistocles , when there was any sedition , or uproare in the city , then who but themistocles , but when by his discreet wisedome , and good counsell all was quieted , then who more vile , who more contemptible then poore themistocles ? i wish , this might be applyed to too many of our times , who are fitly compared to a herd of hoggs , the keeper beates them downe acornes , and they eate them up greedily , but never look up to the tree , onely when they find their store spent , grunt a little for more like as when some wholesome potion is boyled in a brasse vessell , yet the brasse gives it such a relish , that it becomes good for nothing . prayers , and praise in a good mans mouth , is like sweet incense , but in others , it is like brasse , and savours too strong of the cask , and therefore the wise man saith , that praise is not seemly in the mouth of a sinner . the husband man when he is like to have a good harvest , or the merchant a good returne from sea . he will give praise to god , but with such a relation to his gaine , that a man may easily perceive it was not of free will , neither indeed willingly did he give praise to almighty god : and indeed men doe behave themselves so , as if they were bound no more to give god praise , then he is to give them benefits . the lord hath given and the lord hath taken away ( saith iob ) blessed be the name of the lord . quando tibi benè est , lauda misericordiam dei : quando male , lauda iusticiam dei . and that lustily , and with a good courage . our prophet david calling upon the creatures to praise the lord , he joyneth a reason : for ( saith he ) let them praise the lord , for he commanded , and they were created . but we have much more cause ; for besides we have the benefit common with them , we have above all other creatures , a great benefit of redemption by iesus christ : in this god hath exalted men above angels , in giving unto them his onely begotten sonne , as his power was manifest in the creating of the world , so the riches of his love , was never so fully shewed , as in sending his onely begotten sonne to suffer for us . i remember a story of one saleucus , who made a law , that all adulterers should be punished with the losse of both their eyes : on a time it came to passe his owne son was taken in the same fault : his good old father being perplexed much thereat , at last resolved on this course : that the executioner should pull out one of his owne eyes : and another of his sonnes ; that so both iustice might be satisfied , and mercy shewed . we likewise were in danger both of loosing this life , and that which is to come , as also of suffering a double death , temporall , and eternall , but god hath found out a meanes for our delivery : christ came in , and suffered one death himselfe , to free us from the other death . plato gave thankes unto the gods . first , that he was a man , and not a beast . secondly that he was a graetian , and not a barharian . thirdly that he was not one of the common rout , but a philosopher . but besides we are men , we are christian men , who live in peace , and plenty with the free passage of the gospell of iesus christ . therefore let us both young men and maidens , old men and babes praise the name of the lord . gratiarum actio , respicit gratiam dantis , ubi igitur est gratia maior dantis , ibi gratia maior accipientis . assure thy self of one thing as saint augustine hath , qui non vult laudare in hoc seculo , obmutescet in futuro . god at the last day , will say to such an one , as the king did to him , that had not on the wedding garment . i should be too tedious if i should stand to reckon up the manifold mercys that god hath be stowed on this our land , beyond all the world besides , our peace , and plenty , with the gospell of christ , our many , and great deliverances , both from forreigne enemies , and domesticke traytors : so that we may rightly say , ignem & aquam transivimus . god hath delivered us from the spanish invasion , and the gun-powder treason , and hath placed us in a wealthy land . be ye therefore filled with the spirit ( saith our prophet david ) speaking to your selves in psalmes , and hymnes , and spirituall songs : and here i might speak of the godly care of our church , which hath ordeined singing of psalmes , both before , and after sermon , and indeed are very fitting to be sung in order , for the better stirring up of our affections . and here i have a iust cause to taske them of the seperation , who will not admit of any set forme of prayer , for that ( as they say ) is cursing of the spirit , but why then should we have a set forme of singing ? for my part it shall ever have my allowance & i thinke that these their ex tempore prayers sounds as harshly in the eares of heaven , as divers psalmes sung together in sevorall tunes , would in ours . i remember the apostle paul makes mention of three graces viz. faith , hope , & charity , but the chiefest of these is charity , charity , & love is the chiefest propter durationem , for in heaven we shall enioy both that we did beleive , and hoped for ; but love shall accompany us there also : in imitation thereof , i shall also name three , prayer , praise , and patience , but the chiefest of these is praise , and that for the same reason , because it shall outlast all other , here we stand in need of things necessary both for the body , and soule , and therefore we have need of prayer , here we are troubled , and afflicted with divers kinds of adversities , and therefore we had need of patience : but hereafter in heaven , all teares shall be wiped away from our eyes , we shall have no need then , of prayer , or patience , onely praise shall still remaine , then it shall be as it now is , the greatest ioy of the angels to consort themselves with the saints , in singing glory , and honour , and praise , to him that sits upon the throne , & to the lamb for evermore . and so i have done with the duty in generall . and now give me leave a little to acquaint you with some observations ; and first for reproofe , there is no impartiall christian , but it would grieve his heart to see the prophanation of gods ordinances , when coblers , weavers , and taylours , and feltmakers . frange leves calamos , & scinde thalia libellos . and these to goe unpunished , nay much made on , and well countenanced : many of our pulpits now a dayes , do ring of the doctrine of devils . on did preach publikely , that it was not fit for parents to teach their children the lords prayer . another did maintaine , and approve , of that bloody act of eelton . an other ( to use his owne wordes ) would maintaine that there was no more holinesse in the church , then in his kitchin , nor in our communion table , then his dresserboard . o horrid blaspemy ! what will become of us , if ecclesiasticall iurisdiction may not curbe such as these are . o that they might be permitted to punish these things , with what fury would they dart out their thunderbolts , and with their coruscant beames beat these bats into their accursed holes ; the house of god prophaned : the memory of the saints razed : the monuments of good christians ; it is great pitty to see , that those who have beene speciall benefactors to this city , that their monuments are defaced . i would it might be taken into serious consideration , neither insignia regalia can escape their censure . for in one church of this city , it was openly preached , that the kings crowne should be pulled downe , because it had a crosse upon it . i wish we could pull downe the old man of sinne , and leavell those mountains of pride which are in our hearts . gods house is abused , and the ministers of god abused : there cannot one of them goe along the streets , but straight he is taken notice on , who he is , or the like contumelious reproaches , look yonder goes a iesuite : and abbilubber , one of baals priests : one of canterburies whelpes . there is one place i would have you look unto : where it is said . they mocked the messenger of god , and despised his words , and misused his prophets : until the wrath of the lord was against his people , till there was no remedy . we read in the former verses that they had polluted the temple and commited many , and great sins , bnt yet god did forbeare , untill they came to misusing of his prophets , and then there was no remedy , the word in the originall doth properly signifie , that their sore was cancred . the decent munimenta which have stood time out of mind in divers churches , to keepe the lords table from prophanaion , is fetched away by those that have no authority . ( i conceive the order of the honourable house of parliament ) & i do confesse that there were too many alterations of late , but for those that have stood decently , time out of mind , that the rude , and inconsiderate multitude should demolish them ! i would wish these to consider what the holy prophet saith , he that breaketh a hedge , a serpent shall bite him : i conceive that ye all know what i meane by the hedge , and i wish you may not too soon feele what is meant by the serpent . we have too many in these our days are so invective against bishops , as if they would pluck up both branch , & root in one day , although there may be some faulty in the church , therefore shall the church suffer ? some aldermen have been faulty , and some iudges have been dilinquent , but therefore shall there be no iudges , & no aldermen ? let the parties , that have done evill , be punished , and not their 〈◊〉 office . so likewise for the booke of common prayer , how is it condemned , and reviled ( that i say ) what was made by the consent of many godly ministers , and sealed with their dearest blood ; it hath bin termed by the name of pottage , or porridge , you must give me leave to be a forewarner to tell : you . for what things the wrath of god doth hang over our heads , but by my conseut , those that will have none of the porridge , should have none of the meat , ex tempore prayer , & ex tempore preaching , as if their glorious lord , & heavenly father , had deserved no more reverence at their hands then to serve for blockes , and posts , that when they are ready to tumble out of their way , by taken of theirin considerate hast , taken hold of these names , keep their tongues in play , while their rash invention makes a farther passage you shall read what method was observed in the building of solomons temple , that it was built of stone , made ready , before it was brought thither ; so that there was neither hammor , nor axe , nor any toole of iron heard in the house while it was in building : if this method were observed in the building of the temple , we should not have such hacking , and hamering , as if babell were now building , rather then the house of god ; or if it were rather a pulling downe , then a building up , and therefore our late king iames , cals such prayers , monstrous births , and indeed how can they be otherwise , when they are conceived , and brought forth all in one houre ? prayer is the most necessary duty to a christian of all other , and of all other most acceptable to almighty god . oratio fidelis est coeli clavis . but thou ( such as these ) must not thinke to open heaven gate with the rusty picklock of ex tempore prayer . the same author king iames saith in his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . if we were to come before an earthly prince , how would we thinke with our selves before hand , what gesture , and language , we should use before we came into his presence : doe you thinke this fitting to be done to an earthly king : and shall the king of kings ( my beloved ) be thus dishonoured , in many places of this your city , & surburbs , by anabaptists , s●peratists , burtonists , and brownists , and i shall acquaint you with the passage concerning the first founder of the last of these sects ? it was one browne a minister who would preach no where but in private houses , and desert places , and the like : and the reason that he alleadged , was , because we had no true church but marke the event , a good benefice was offered this brown , which he willingly accepted of , and he , that before would not acknowledge a church in england , was content to be a parson of a-church a certaine towne in northampton-shire : loe here you may behold the sincerity together with the antiquity of these brownists ! we read in the vision of elijah , that there was a whirle-wind , but god was not in the whirle-wind : next an earthquake : next a fire : but last of all a still small voice , and there god was . when was there a greater whirle-wind and tempest in the land then now is , and is there not an earth-quake in this land of ours ? when one shall goe away with five or 600. poundes a yeare , and a poore vicar for 40. pounds shall undergoe all the burthen ? there was also a fire , but god was not in it , when many of our protestant martyrs in the marian days , were carried up to heaven like elijah in chariots of fire . but as for us throughout our second deborah's days , & our second solomons days , & in the raigne of our second iosiah ( whom god long preserve ) among us , we have , & do heare the still smal voice of the preaching of the gospell of christ iesus , we have had free liberty for the publike worship , and service of god , even the full age of a man , till now of late , these disturbers of the peace of our church , have risen , and the wind hath begun to blow againe in the whisling , and blustering of these brownists . i know there are some who are ready to taske us for medling with these things we have nothing to doe with , but one answere is , what things are out of our reach , or what men in points of religion ? i am sure our commission extends to the highest cedars , in lebanon , as will as the hysop , that groweth upon the wall . we are dogs of the flock , and therefore when we see cause we may bark , and live too . now i come to give you a view of the actors : and those young men , and maidens , &c. the parties are mentioned by couples , being tied two and two together . young men , and maidens , old men , and children , &c. and here is a double caveat , first against presumption , and secondly against despaire . first , that the younger sort might desire to praise god , they are exhorted to addresse themselves to the service of god , to remember their creator in the days of their youth . secondly , for aged men , that they might not doubt of the acceptation of their service , our prophet exhorts them also , for the first you know david cals upon the sun , and the moone , to praise god . should the sun reply , i will not doe it in the morning , or at noone time , but when i am about to sit ? or the moone reply , i will not in the full , but in the waine ? or the tree not in the spring-time , or summer , but at the fall of the leafe ? so likewise , thou young man deferre not the time of praising god : take the swinge of thy youth & do not deferre to apply thy self to the service of god , till thy old age , but remember that for all these things , thou shalt come to judgement . he that stiles himselfe by the title i am cares not for i will be , or i have been ; but he that is at this present : take heed therefore , thou strong , and lustie young man , the divell that holds the now , will every day tie a new cord about thee : qui non est hodiè , cras minùs aptus erit : consider this , you that are yet yong , whom the morning sun of light adornes with his glorious rayes , every-one doth not live to be old . let us not procrastinate gods service : for the longer we deferre to serve god , the farther god's grace is distant from us , and the dominion of sathan is more strenghthened in our hearts , the more we delay , the more is our debt , the greater our sin , and lesse our grace . i will commend this lesson unto all . he , that doth not repent to day , bath a day more to repent of , and a day lesse to repent in . i shall only conclude this point with an hearty exortation for us all , of what sect , age , and degree soever , i could wish that all our lives , might end , like this booke of psalmes in blessing , and praising almighty god . i will hold your patience no longer in suspence , but will consummate all with the psalmist . let young men , and maidens , old men , and children , praise the name of the lord . yea this name especially the name of our lord iesus christ to whom with the father , and holy spirit , be all honour , praise and glory now and for evermore . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a32786e-140 verse . 2. verse . 3. verse . 4. verse . 7. verse . 8. verse . 9. verse . 10. verse . 11. verse . 2. luk. 2. verse . 13. esa : 1. verse . 3. mat. 5. verse . 37. verse . 8. verse . 4. ruth . 1. verse 16. and 17. verse . 5. 1 chro. 1● verse 13. 2 chro. 36. verse 16. 1 king 6. verse 7. english puritanisme containing the maine opinions of the rigidest sort of those that are called puritans in the realme of england / written by william ames ... bradshaw, william, 1571-1618. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a69622 of text r14601 in the english short title catalog (wing b4158). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 35 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a69622 wing b4158 estc r14601 11714441 ocm 11714441 48309 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a69622) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 48309) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 15:18 or 261:e208, no 4) english puritanisme containing the maine opinions of the rigidest sort of those that are called puritans in the realme of england / written by william ames ... bradshaw, william, 1571-1618. ames, william, 1576-1633. [4], 20 p. s.n.], [london : 1641. the english original, published anonymously in 1605, was written by william bradshaw. william ames, whose name erroneously appears on the t.p., made a free latin version, published in 1610 with title: puritanismus anglicanus. cf. dnb. place of publication from wing. reproduction of original in bodleian library and thomason collection, british library. eng puritans -england. a69622 r14601 (wing b4158). civilwar no english puritanisme. containing the maine opinions of the rigidest sort of those that are called puritans in the realme of england. written bradshaw, william 1641 6357 3 0 0 0 0 0 5 b the rate of 5 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-02 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-07 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2004-07 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion english pvritanisme . containing the maine opinions of the rigidest sort of those that are called puritans in the realme of england . written by william ames d. of divinity . acts 24. 14. but this i confesse unto thee , that after the way ( which they call heresie ) so worship i the god of my fathers , beleeving all things which are written in the law and the prophets . acts 28. 22. but we will heare of thee what thou thinkest : for as concerning this sect , we know that every where it is spoken against . printed in the yeare . 1641. to the indifferent reader . it cannot be unknowne unto them that know any thing , that those chistians in this realme which are called by the odious and vile name of puritans , are accused by the prelates to the kings majestie and the state , to maintaine many absurd , erronious , schismaticall , and hereticall opinions , concerning religion , church-government , and the civill magistracie . which hath moved me to collect ( as neare as i could , the chiefest of them , and to send them naked to the view of all men , that they may see what is the worst that the worst of them hold . it is not my part to prove and justifie them , those that accuse and condemne them , must in all reason and equity prove their accusation , or else beare the name of unchristian slanderers . i am not ignorant that they lay other opinions ( yea , some cleane contradictory to these ) to the charge of these men , the falshood whereof we shall ( it is to be doubted have more and more occasion to detect . in the meane time all enemies of divine truth shall finde , that to obscure the same with calumniation and untruthes , is but to hide a fire with dry straw or towe upon it . but thou mayest herein observe , what a terrible popedome and primacy these riged presbyterians desire . and with what painted bug-beares and scar-crowes the prelates goe about to fright the states of the kingdome with all . who will no doubt one day see how their wisedomes are abused . farewell . english pvritanisme . chap. i. concerning religion , or the worship of god in generall . imprimis , they hold and maintaine , that the word of god contained in the writings of the prophets and apostles , is of absolute perfection , given by christ the head of the church , to be unto the same , the sole canon and rule of all matters of religion , and the worship and service of god whatsoever . and that whatsoever done in the same service and worship , cannot be justified by the said word , is unlawfull . and therefore that it is a sin , to force any christian to doe any act of religion , or divine service , that cannot evidently be warranted by the same . 2 they hold , that all ecclesiasticall actions invented and devised by man , are utterly to be excluded out of the exercises of religion ? especially such actions as are famous and notorious mysteries of an idolatrous religion , and in doing whereof , the true religion is conformed ( whether in whole or in part ) to idolatry and superstition . 3 they hold , that all outward meanes instituted and set apart to expresse and set forth the inward worship of god , are parts of divine worship and that not onely all morall actions , but all typicall rites and figures , ordained to shadow forth in the solemne worship and service of god , any spirituall or religious act or habit in the minde of man , are speciall parts of the same , and therefore that every such act ought evidently to be prescribed by the word of god , or else ought not to be done ? it being a sinne to performe any other worship to god , whether externall or internall , morall or ceremoniall , in whole or in part , then that which god himselfe requires in his word . 4 they hold it to be grosse superstition for any mortall man to institute and ordaine as parts of divine worship , any mysticall rite and ceremony of religion whatsoever , and to mingle the same with the divine rites and mysteries of gods ordinance . but they hold it to be high presumption to institute and bring into divine worship such rites and ceremonies of religion , as are acknowledged to be no part of divine worship at all , but onely of civill worship and honour : for they that shall require to have prformed unto themselves a ceremoniall obedience , service and worship , consisting in rites of religion to be done at that very instant that god is solemnely served and worshipped ? and even in the same worship make both themselves and god so an idoll . so that they judge it a farre more fearefull sinne to adde unto , and to use in the worship and service of god , or any part thereof , such mysticall rites and ceremonies as they esteeme to be no parts or parcels of gods worship at all : then such as in a vaine and ignorant superstition , they imagine and conceive to be parts thereof . 5 they hold , that every act or action appropriated and set apart to divine service and worship , whether morall or ceremoniall , reall or typicall ? ought to bring speciall honour unto god , and therfore that every such act ought to be apparently commanded in the word of god , either expresly , or by necessary consepuent . 6 they hold , that all actions whether morall or ceremoniall appropriated to religious or spirituall persons , functions , or actions , either are or ought to be religious and spirituall . and therefore either are or ought to be instituted immediately by god , who alone is the author and institutor of all religious and spirituall actions , and things : whether internall or externall , morall or ceremoniall . chap. ii. concerning the church . 1 they hold and maintaine , that every company , congregation , or assembly of true beleevers , joyning together according to the order of the gospell , in the true worship of god , is a true visible church of christ ; and that the same title is improperly attributed to any other congregations , synods , societies , combinations , or assemblies whatsoever . 2 they hold , that all such churches or congregations , communicating after that manner together in divine worship , are in all ecclesiasticall matters equall , and of the same power and authority , and that by the word and will of god they ought to have the same spirituall priviledges , prerogatives , officers , administrations , orders , and formes of divine worship . 3 they hold , that christ jesus hath not objected any church or congregation of his , to any other superiour ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , then unto that which is within it selfe . so that if a whole church or congregation shall erre , in any matter of faith or religion , no other churches or spirituall church-officers have ( by any warrant from the word of god ) power to censure , punish , or controule the same : but are onely to counsell or advise the same , and so to leave their soules to the immediate judgement of christ , and their bodies to the sword and power of the civill magistrate , who alone upon earth hath power to punish a whole church or congregation . 4 they hold , that every established church or congregation ought to have her owne spirituall officers and ministers , resident with her , and these such as are joyned by christ in the new testament , and no other . 5 they hold , that every established church ought ( as a speciall prerogative wherewith shee is endowed by christ ) to have power and liberty to elect and chuse their owne spirituall and ecclesiasticall officers , and that is a greater wrong to have any such forced upon them against their wils , then if they should force upon men wives , or upon womens husbands , against their will and liking . 6 they hold , that the ecclesiasticall officers and ministers of one church , ought not to beare any ecclesiasticall office in another , neither as they are officers in one congregation , can they officially administer in another , but ought to be tyed unto that congregation of which they are members , and by which they are elected into office . and they are not ( without just cause , and such as may be approved by the congregation , to forsake their callings , wherein if the congregation shall be perverse , and will not hearken to reason , they are then to crave the assistance and helpe of the civill magistrate , who alone hath power , and who ought by his civill sword and authority , procure to all members of the church , whether governours or others , freedome from all manifest injuries and wrongs . 7 they hold , that the congregation having once made choyse of their spirituall officers , unto whom they commit the regiment of their soules , they ought not ( without just cause , and that which is apparantly warrantable by the word of god ) to discharge , deprive , or depose them . but ought to live in all canonicall obedience and subjection unto them agreeable to the word of god . 8 they hold , that the lawes , orders , and ecclesiasticall jurisdiction of the visible churches of christ , if they be lawfull and warrantable by the word of god , are no wyaes repugnant to any civill state whatsoever , whether monarchicall , aristocraticall , or democraticall , but to tend to the further establishing and advancing of the right and prerogatives of all and every of them . and they renounce and abhorre from their soules all such ecclesiasticall jurisdiction or policy , that is any wayes repugnant to any civill state whatsoever , whether monarchicall , aristocraticall , or democraticall , but doe tend to the further establishing and advancing of the right and prerogatives of all and every of them . and they renounce and abhorre from their soules all such ecclesiasticall jurisdiction and policy , that is any way repugnant and derogatory to any of them specially to the monarchicall state , which they acknowledge to be the best kinde of civill government for this kingdome . 9 they hold and beleeve , that the equality in ecclesiasticall jurisdiction and authority , of churches and church-ministers , is no more derogatory , and repugnant to the state and glory of a monarch , then the parity of equality , of schoole-masters , of severall schooles , captaines of severall campes , shepheards of severall flockes of sheep , or masters of severall families . yea , they hold the cleane contrary , that inequality , of churches and church-officers in ecclesiasticall jurisdiction and authority , was that principally that advanced antichrist unto his throne , and brought the kings and princes of the earth , unto such vassalage under him , and that the civill authority and glory of secular princes and states hath ever decayed , and withered , the more that the ecclesiasticall officers of the church have bin advanced and lifted up in authority , beyond the limites and confines that christ in his word hath prescribed unto them . chap. iii. concerning the ministers of the church . 1 they hold , that the pastors , teachers , and ruling elders of particular congregations , are , or ought to be highest spirituall officers in the church , over whom ( by any divine ordinance ) there is no superiour pastor , but onely jesus christ ; and that they are led by the spirit of antichrist , that arrogate , or take upon themselves to be pastors of pastors . 2 they hold , that there are not by divine institution in the word , any ordinary nationall , provinciall , or diocesan , pastors or ministers under which the pastors of particular congregations are to be subject , as inferiour officers . and that if there were any such , that then the word of god would have set them downe distinctly , and more precisely then any of the rest : for the higher place that one occupieth in the church , of the more necessity he is unto the church : the more carefully would christ ( the head of the church ) have beene in pointing him out , and distinguishing him from other . hence , in the old testament , the high priest , his title , office , function , and speciall administration and jurisdiction is more particularly and precisely set downe then the office of any of the inferiour priests and levites . also in the new testament , the office of a pastor is more distinctly , and more precisely set down , then of a doctor , or any other inferiour church-officer ; so that a man may as well call into question the whole new testament , as doubt whether there ought to be a pastor in every congreation , or doubt of his proper office and function . and if by gods ordinance there should be an ordinary ecclesiasticall officer above the pastors of particular congregations , then christ out of all question would with that speciall care and cost hath set it forth : by titles , prerogatives , peculiar offices , functions and gifts . that the churches and people of god , should have reason rather to doubt of any office or jurisdiction , then of the peculiar office or jurisdiction of the primates , metrapolitanes , archbishops and prelates of the world . 4 they hold , that if there were a supreame nationall ecclesiasticall minister or pastor , that should be the prince of many thousand pastors : that then also christ ( as he did in the jewish church ) would have appointed a solemne nationall or provinciall leiturgie or worship , unto which at some times of the yeare , the whole body of the people should ascend , and that unto the metropolitan city as unto a jerusalem , and that he would ( as he did in the jewish church ) more precisly and particularly have set downe the manner of solemnization thereof , then of his prochical worship . for as much therefore as they cannot read in the new testament of any higher or more solemne worship , then of that which is to be performed in a particular congregation they cannot be perswaded that god hath appointed any higher ministers of his service and worship under the new testament , then the elect ministers of particular congregations . 4 they hold , that the high priest of the jewes , was typicall and in a figure the supreame head of the whole catholick church , which though it were visible only in the province and nation of jury , yet those of other nations and countries ( as appeare , by the history of acts , even though they were ethiopians ) were under this high priest . and acknowledged homage unto him . so that he was not a provinciall metropolitane , but in very deed , an occumenicall and universall bishop of the whole world . and therefore they hold , ( this being the best ground in the word , for metropolitane and provinciall pastors or bishops , ) that the pope of rome , who alone maketh claime unto , and is in possession of the like universall supremacy : hath more warrant in the word of god , to the same , then any metropolitane , or diocesan ( not dependant upon him ) hath or can have . so that they hold , that by the word of god , either there must be no metropolitans and diocesans , or else there must be a pope . 5. they hold , that no ecclesiasticall minister ought to exercise or accept of any civill publique jurisdiction and authority , but ought to be wholly imployed in spirituall offices and dueties to that congregation over which he is set . and that those civill magistrats weaken their owne supremacy that shall suffer any ecclesiasticall pastor to exercise any civill jurisdiction within their realmes , dominions , or seignories . 6 they hold , that the highest and supreame office and authority of the pastor , is to preach the gospel solemnely and publickly to the congregation , by interpreting the written word of god , and applying the same by exhortation and reproof unto them . they hold that this was the greatest worke that christ and his apostles did , and that whosoever is thought worthy and fit to exercise this authority , cannot be thought unfit and unworthy to exercise any other spirituall or ecclesiasticall authority whatsoever . 7. they hold , that the pastor or minister of the word , is not to teach any doctrine as to the church , grounded upon his owne judgement , or opinion , or upon the judgement or opinion of any or all the men in the world . but only that truth , that he is able to demonstrate and prove evidently , and apparently , by the word of god soundly interpreted , and that the people are not bound to beleeve any doctrine of religion or divinity whatsoever , upon any ground whatsoever , except it be apparently justified by the word , or by necessary consequent deduced from the same . 8. they hold , that in interpreting the scriptures , and opening the sense of them , he ought to follow those rules onely that are followed in finding out the meaning of other writing , to wit , by waying the propriety of the tongue wherein they are written , by waying the circumstance of the place , by comparing one place with another , and by considering what is properly spoken , and what tropically or figuratively . and they hold it unlawfull for the pastor to obtrude upon his people a sence of any part of the divine word , for which he hath no other ground but the bare testimonies of men , and that it is better for the people to be content to be ignorant of the meaning of such difficult places , then to hang their faith in any matter in this case upon the bare testimony of man . 9. they hold , that the people of god ought not to acknowledge any such for their pastors as are not able by preaching , to interpret and apply the word of god unto them in manner and forme aforesaid . and therefore that no ignorant and sole reading priests are to be reputed the ministers of jesus christ , who sendeth none into his ministery and service , but such as he adorneth in some measure with spirituall gifts . and they cannot be perswaded that the faculty of reading in ones mother tongue the scriptures , &c. which any ordinary turke or infidell hath , can be called in any congruity of speech a ministeriall guift of christ , 10. they hold , that in the assembly of the church , the pastor only is to be the mouth of the congregation to god in prayer , and that the people are onely to testifie their assent by the word amen . and that it is a babilonian confusion , for the pastor to say one peece of a prayer , and the people with mingled voices to say another except in singing , which by the very ordinance and instinct of nature , is more delightfull , and effectuall , the more voices there are joyned and mingled together in harmony and consent . 11. they hold , that the church hath no authority to impose upon her pastors , or any other of her officers , any other ministeriall dueties , offices , functions , actions , or ceremonies , either in divine worship or out of the same then what christ himself in the scriptures hath imposed upon them , or what they might lawfully impose upon christ himselfe , if he were in person upon the earth , and did exercise a ministeriall office in some church . 12. they hold , that it is as great an injury to force a congregation or church to maintaine as their pastor , with tithes and such like donations , that person that either is not able to instruct them , or that refuseth in his owne person ordinarily to doe it , as to force a man to maintaine one for his wife , that either is not a woman , or that refuseth in her owne person to doe the dueties of a wife unto him ? 13. they hold , that by gods ordinance there should be also in every church a doctor , whose speciall office should be to instruct by opening the sense of the scripture to the congregation ( and that particularly ) in the maine grounds and principles of religion . chap. iiii. concerning the elders . 1 for as much as through the malice of sathan , there are and will be in the best churches many disorders and scandals committed , that redound to the reproch of the gospel & are a stumbling block to many , both without and within the church , and sith they judg it repugnant to the word of god , that any minister should be a sole ruler , and as it were a pope so much as in one parish , ( much more that he should be one over a whole diocesse , province or nation ) they hold that by gods ordinance the congregation should make choise of other officers , as assistants unto the ministers in the spirituall regiment of the congregation , who are by office jointly with the ministers of the word to be as monitors and overseers of the manners and conversation of all the congregation , and one of another ; that so every one may be more weary of their wayes , and that the pastors and doctors may better attend to prayer and doctrine , and by their means may be made better acqainted with the estate of the people , when others eyes besides their owne shall wake and watch over them . 2 they hold , that such onely are to be chosen to this office , as are the gravest , honestest , discreetest , best grounded in religion , and the ancientest professors thereof in the congregation , such as the whole congregation doe approve of & respect , for their wisdome , holinesse , and honesty , and such also ( if it be possible ) as are of civill note and respect in the world , and able ( without any burden to the church ) to maintain them selves , either by their lands , or any other honest civill trade of life , neither doe they thinke it so much disgrace to the policy of the church , that tradesmen and artificers , ( indowed with such qualities as are above specified ) should be admitted to bee ▪ overseers of the church , as it is that persons both ignorant of religion and all good letters , and in all respects for person , quality , and state , as base and vile , as the basest in the congregation , should be admitted to be pastors and teachers of a congregation . and if it be apparent that god ( who alwayes blessed his owne ordinances ) doth often even in the eyes of kings and nobles , make honourable the ministers and pastors of his churches upon which he hath bestowed spirituall gifts and graces though for birth , education , presence , outward , state and maintenance , they be most base and contemptible , so he will as well in the eyes of holy men , make this office , which is many degrees inferiour to the other , precious and honourable , even for the divine calling and ordinance sake . chap. v. concerning the censures of the church . 1 they hold , that the spirituall keies of the church are by christ , committed to the aforesaid spirituall officers and governours , and unto none other : which keyes they hold that they are not to be put to this use , to locke up the crownes , swotds , or scepters of princes and civill states , or the civill rights , prerogatives , and immunities of civill subjects in the things of this life , or to use them as picklocks to open withall , mens treasuries & coffers , or as keys of prisons , to shut up the bodies of men ; for they thinke that such a power and authority ecclesiasticall is fit onely for the antechrist of rome , and the consecrated governours of his synagogues , who having no word of god which is the sword of the spirit , to defend his and their usurped jurisdiction over the christian world , doth unlawfully usurpe the lawfull civill sword and power of the monarches and princes of the earth , thereby forcing men to subject themselves to his spirituall vassaladge and service , and abusing thereby the spiritull keyes and jurisdiction of the church . 2 they hold , that by vertue of these keyes , they are not to make any curious inquisitions into the secret or hidden vices or crimes of men , extorting from them a confession of those faults that are concealed from themselves and others ; or to proceed to molest any man upon secret suggestions , private suspition , or uncertaine fame , or for such crimes as are in question whether they be crimes or no ; but they are to proceed , onely against evident and apparent crimes , such as are either granted to be such of all civill honest men : or of all true christians , or at least such , as they are able , by evidence of the word of god , to convince to be sinnes , to the conscience of the offender ; as also such as have beene either publickly committed , or having been committed in secret , are by some good means brought to light , & which the delinquent denying , they are able by honest and sufficient testimony to prove against him . 3 they hold , that when he that hath commited a scandalous crime commeth before them , and is convinced of the same , they ought not ( after the manner of our ecclesiasticall courts ) scorne , deride , and taunt , and revile him , with odious and contumelious speeches , eye him with big and sterne lookes , procure proctors to to make personall invectives against him , make him dance attendance from court day to court day , and from terme to terme , frowning at him in presence , and laughting at him behind his back : but they are ( though he be never so obstinate and perverse ) to use him brotherly , not giving the least personall reproaches , or threats ) but laying open unto him the nature of his sinne by the light of gods word , are onely by denouncing the judgements of god against him , to terrifie him , and so to move him to repentance . 4 they hold , that if the party offending be their civill superiour , that then they are to use ever throughut the whole carriage of their censure , all civill complements , offices and reverence due unto him , that they are not to presume to convent him before the , but are themselves to goe in all civill and humble manner unto him , to stand bare before him , to bowe unto him , to give him all civill titles belonging unto him ; and if hee bee a king and supreame ruler , they are to kneele downe before him , and in the humblest manner to censure his faults ; so that he may see apparently that they are not carried with the least spice of malice against his person , but onely with zeale of the health and salvation of his soule . 5 they hold , that the ecclesiasticall officers laying to the charge of any man , any errour , heresie , or false opinion whatsoever do stand bound themselves , first to prove that he holdeth such an errour or heresie ; and secondly to prove directly unto him that it is an errour by the word of god , and that it deserveth such a censure before they doe proceed against him . 6 they hold , that the governours of the church ought with all patience and quietnesse , heare what every offender can possibly say for himself , either for qualification , defence , apology , or justification of any supposed crime or errour whatsoever ; and they ought not to proceed to censure the grossest offence that is , untill the offender have said as much for himselfe in his defence as he possible is able . and they hold it an evident character of a corrupt ecclesiasticall government , where the parties convented may not have ful liberty to speak for themselves , considering that the more liberty is granted to speak in a bad cause , ( especially before those that are in authority and of judgement ) the more the iniquity of it will appeare , and the more the justice of their sentence will shine . 7 they hold , that the oath ex officio , whereby popish and english ecclesiasticall governours , either upon some secret informations , or suggestions , or private supitions goe about to binde mens consciences , to accuse themselves and their friends , of such crimes or imputations as cannot by any direct course of law bee proved against them , and wherby they are drawne to bee instruments of many heavy crosses upon themselves and their friends , and that often for those actions that they are perswaded in their consciences are good and holy . i say , that they hold , that such an oath ( on the urgers part ) is most damnable and tyrannous , against the very law of nature , devised by antichrist , through the inspiration of the devill ; that by meanes thereof the professors and practisers of the true religion , might either in their weaknesse by perjury damne their owne soules , or bee drawne to reveale to the enemies of christianity , those secret religious acts and deeds , that being in the perswasion of their consciences ) for the advancement of the gospell , will be a meanes of heavy sentences of condemnation against themselves and their dearest friends . 8 they hold , that ecclesiasticall officers have no power to proceed in censure against any crime of any person , after that he shall freely acknowledge the same , and professe his hearty penitency for it ; and that they may not , for any crime whatsoever lay any bodily or pecuniary mulct upon them , or impose upon them any ceremoniall marke or note of shame , such as is the white sheet , or any such like ; or take fees for any cause whatsoever , but are to accept of as a sufficient satisfaction , a private submission , and acknowledgement if the crime be private , and a publicke , if the crime be publike and notorious . 9 they hold , that if a member of the church be obstinate , and shew no signes and tokens of repentance of that crime , that if they by evidence of scripture have coevinced it to be a crime , that then by their ecclesiasticall authority , they are to denounce him to be as yet no member of the kingdome of heaven , nor of that congregation , and so are to leave him to god and the king . and this is all the ecclesiasticall authority and jurisdiction that any spirituall officers of the church are to use against any man , for greatest crime that can be committed . 10 they hold , that the officers of the church are not to proceed unto excommunication against against any man , without the consent of the whole congregation it selfe , first called for in publike assembly . 11 they hold , that the minister or any other particular officer offending , is as subject to the censures , as any other of the congregation . 12 they hold , that if any member of the congregation having committed a srandalous sinne , shall of selfe forsake the worship of god , and the spirituall communion with the church ; that the church shall then send for the said person , and if hee refuse to come , they shall ( after much seeking and long patience ) openly declare that he hath no part nor portion in the holy things of god among them ; that then the ecclesiasticall officers hove no authority or jurisdiction over him , but onely the civill magistrate , and those unto whom he oweth civill subjection , as parents masters , landlords , &c. chap. vi . concerning the civill magistrate . 1 they hold , that the civill magistrate , as he is a civill magistrate hath and ought to have supreame power over all the churches within his dominions , in all causes whatsoever . and yet they hold , that as he is a christian , he is a member of some one particular congregation , and ought to be as subject to the spirituall regiment thereof prescribed by christ in his word , as the meanest subject in the kingdome , and they hold that this subjection is no more derogatory to his supremacy , then the subjection of his body in his body in sicknesse to physitians , can be said to be said to be derogatory thereunto . 2 they hold , that these civill magistrates are the greatest enemies to their own supremacy , that in whole or in part , communicate the vertute and power therof , to any ecclesiasticall officers . and that there cannot be imagined by the wit of man , a more direct meanes to check-mate the same , then to make them lords and princes upon earth , to invist them with civill jurisdiction and authority , and to conforme the state and limits of their jurisdiction , to the state of kings and bounds of kingdomes . 3 they hold , that there should be no ecclesiasticall officer in the church so high , but that he ought to be subject unto , and punishable by the meanest civill officer in a kingdome , city or town , not onely for common crimes , but even for the abuse of the ecclesiasticall offices , yea , they hold , that they ought to be more punishable then any other subject whatsoever , if they shall offend against either civill or ecclesiasticall lawes . 4 they hold , that the pope is that antichrist , and therefore that antichrist because being but an ecclesiasticall officer he doth in the hight of the pride of his heart make claime unto , and usurp the supremacy of the kings and civill rulers of the earth . and they hold , that all defenders of the popish faith , all indeverours of reconcilement with that church , all plotters for toleration of the popish religion , all countenancers and maintainers of seminary priests , and professed catholicks , and all denyers that the pope is that antichrist , are secret enemies to the kings supremacy . 5 they hold , that all arch-bishops , bishops , deans , officials , &c. have their offices and functions onely by will and pleasure of the king and civill states of this realme ; and they hould , that whosoever holdeth that the king may not without sin remove these officers out of the church , and dispose of their temporalities and maintenance according to his owne pleasure , or that these offices are jure divin● , and not onely or meerely jure human● : that all such deny a principle part of the kings supremacy . 6 they hold , that not one of these opinions can be proved to be contrary to the word of god ; and that if they might have leave , that they are able to answer all that hath been written against any one of them . finis . a sermon preached in london by a faithfvll minister of christ, and perfected by him and now set forth to the publike view of all for the ivstification of the truth and clearing the innocencie of his long suffering for it. walker, george, 1581?-1651. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a67115 of text r27052 in the english short title catalog (wing w363). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 42 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 10 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a67115 wing w363 estc r27052 09626655 ocm 09626655 43858 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a67115) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 43858) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1345:9) a sermon preached in london by a faithfvll minister of christ, and perfected by him and now set forth to the publike view of all for the ivstification of the truth and clearing the innocencie of his long suffering for it. walker, george, 1581?-1651. 17 p. printed by margery mar-prelate, [london] : 1642. attributed by wing to george walker. reproduction of original in the cambridge university library. eng church and state -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. puritans -sermons. a67115 r27052 (wing w363). civilwar no a sermon preached in london by a faithfull minister of christ. and perfected by him: and now set forth to the publike view of all, for the i walker, george 1641 7986 7 0 0 0 0 0 9 b the rate of 9 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-02 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-03 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2005-03 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached in london by a faithfvll minister of christ . and perfected by him : and now set forth to the pvblike view of all , for the ivstification of the truth , and clearing the innocencie of his long suffering for it , act. 5. 29. we ought to obey god rather then men . printed by margery mar-prelate . 1641. a sermon preached in london by a faithfvll minister of christ . gen . 3. 17. because thou hast hearkned to the voyce of thy wife , and hast eaten of the tree of which i commanded , saying , thou shalt not eate of it , cursed is the ground , &c. vvhen adams eating of the forbidden fruit , was so manifest by his nakednesse , shame , and feare of gods presence , that he could not hide it , nor deny it , hee had no excuse but onely this , that the woman whom god had given to be an helpe meet for him , shee gave him of the tree and he did eate , vers. 11. some perhaps will thinke that this was a sufficient excuse for adams part ; for why should not he respect her , and hearken to her voyce whom god had given him for a meet helpe ? what affection of men and women one to another can be so great as the affection of adam to his wife ? she was bone of his bone , and flesh of his flesh , chap. 2. 23. framed and made of a rib taken out of his side , in the same image of god with him , and was his second selfe , the queene and lady of the inferiour world , who had with him equall dominion and rule over all visible creatures in the earth , and in the sea ; why then should not adam be excused for his eating , seeing hee did it not of himselfe , nor by the perswasion and example of any other , but one by his wife , and out of respect and affection to her , and to her words and voice . but the text here shewes , that no such excuse could free him from the foul staine of sinne in the eyes of god the righteous iudge of all the earth . for as the eating it selfe contrary to gods commandment , so the hearkning to the voyce of his wife , and respecting her and her perswasion more then the word of god , is laid to his charge as a sin , and an heavie curse is laid on the ground for his sake , and many grievous paines and sorrowes on him and all his posterity , yea and death it selfe also , as a just punishment of his transgressions ; because thou hast hearkned ( saith god ) to the voyce of thy wife , &c. cursed is the ground for thy sake . the consideration whereof offers to us this generall doctrine . that no affection or respect to any man , no word , command , or threatning of greatest kings and potentates , no perswasion of them that are most neere and deare , no importunity of them to whom men are most obliged in love and duty for many great favours , can excuse any act which thereby they are drawne to doe against the commandement of god , from the foule staine of sinne , nor the doers of such an act , from the guilt of sinfull transgression : or to expresse it in fewer words briefly , no affection of one man to another , whether feare or dread of superiours , or reverence of benefactors , or love of them that are most neer and deare , can excuse any person from the guilt of sinne before god , when by them he is moved and drawne to doe a thing which god hath forbidden in his word and law . if any such affection or respect could excuse any unlawfull act before god , then had adams excuse been very good , for the reasons before named , ( viz. ) because hee did eate by the perswasion of his wife , who deserved more love and respect at his hand then any fraile sinfull person of all his posterity can be worthy of , or expect at the hand of any other : but this excuse was of no force with god ( as heere wee see ) that great and righteous judge , whose will is law , and the rule of justice , pronounceth him guilty and worthy of death , and of all the paines , sorrowes and punishments which are expressed in this verse , and the two next following : and this god is no respecter of persons , but most just to all without partiality to any . wherefore this doctrine holds most true , firme and sure , among all men , even all adams posterity of all ages , and in all nations of the world . for the further illustration whereof , and confirming of our hearts in the truth and stedfast beliefe of it , wee have the plaine word and testimony of god himselfe in his law , deut. 13. where hee gives a strict charge to all his people , under greatest penalties , to take heede , that neither reverence and respect of extraordinary prophets which have certainely foretold before-hand things which afterwards have come to passe , nor the love and affection of any one to his brother , the sonne of his mother , or to his wife which lyeth in his bosome , doe at any time draw them into the transgression of his law by worshipping other gods : and if a whole city be seduced by some wicked person , and drawne to serve strange gods , and the people thereof be found to commit idolatry , ( in which cases many are moved and drawne out of affection and respect , some to superiours , some to parents or masters , some to husbands , or wives , or brethren , or friends , and benefactors ) the lord declares all to bee deeply guilty , foulely stained , and worthy of death , out of what affection or respect soever they are drawne to serve false gods , and adjudgeth them all to the sword ; for he commandeth the whole nation of his people , to destroy every soule therein with the edge of the sword , and to burne all the substance thereof as a cursed thing , and to make the citie an heape , for a terrour to all others . thus wee see god in his law admits no excuse or plea for the breach of his commandement , whether men plead , that the feare and commandement of superiours , ( as judges , magistrates , parents , or masters , or love and respect of husbands , wives , brethren , benefactors , and dearest friends , or reverence of extraordinary prophets , and teachers esteemed for men of god ) did move and perswade them , they shall not be found nor judged innocent . and to this purpose are those words of god in the body of the morall law in the second precept , where he forbids making of any image , of any thing in heaven or earth , to bow downe to it , or to worship it , as being a similitude of him ▪ or a signe of his divine power and presence ; i am ( saith he ) a jealous god , and visit the sinnes of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate me . marke the words ; first , the lord saith , i am a jealous god . now jealousie is the indignātion and wrath of some person against those who with-hold and with-draw from him that love and respect which is due to him , and bestow it on others who doe not deserve it , and to whom it is not due : as for example ; when a wife bestowes the love and affection due to her husband upon other men , this provokes him to jealousie , and fills him with anger and indignation against her and her lovers . here god compares himselfe to such a person ; saying , i am a jealous god , which is all one in effect , as if hee had said , i am the lord , the creator of all things , there is no god besides me , no religious or divine worship is to be given to any but to me alone ; and therefore , whosoever gives such honour to any besides me , and doth breake any of my commandements out of feare , love , or other affection and respect to any creature whatsoever , hee provokes me to jealousie : and then , what followes ? i will ( saith he ) visit the sinnes of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation of them that thus hate me . now the meaning of these words is not , that hee will punish the innocent children for the idolary of the parents , for hee is the righteous judge of all the earth , hee will not destroy the righteous and innocent with the wicked and the guilty , gen. 8. 25. he himselfe protesteth with an oath , that the father shall not dye for the child , nor the child for the father , for all soules ( saith hee ) are mine , the soule of the child as well as the soule of the father , ezek. 18. how then can this saying stand , that he will visit the sinnes of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation ? surely the meaning is , that because men often times live to see their children and their childrens children to the third and fourth generation , and if they be wicked idolaters , haters of the true god , they are examples of evill to their children , and by exhortations , commandements , and examples draw such children to commit the same sinnes , and their children are led by affection and respect of their evill wayes . and hence it is that the fathers sinnes becomes the sinnes of their children , and the sinnes which the children commit in imitation , and by the perswasion of their fathers , are called the sins of the fathers : and it is no excuse of the children ; that the example , and their respect of their parents did draw them to follow their wayes , but the lord in fury and jealousie will proceed against them as hatefull sinners , and will visit their sinnes upon them : and least any should thinke or imagine , that the justice of god is not so strict in this point now under the gospel , but the rigour thereof is much remitted : wee have a most cleare testimony from the mouth of the chiefest evangelicall preachers and publishers of the gospel ; the holy apostles , wherewith joynt consent and one voyce they protest , that they might not for feare of men , nor upon the commands and threatnings of the chiefe rulers in the church and state of israel transgresse the commandement of christ , and by obeying men , disobey god , acts 4. 19. and 5. 29. yea , though their preaching of the gospel publikely in the temple ( as the angel commanded them from god , acts 5. 20. ) and to all the people in all publike assemblies and their proclaiming of the lord christ ( whom pilate by instigation of the high-priests and elders had condemned , crucified , and slaine ) and their declaring of him to be the just and holy one of god , and the redeemer promised to the fathers , was no lesse then scandalum magnatum in the highest degree , for hereby they brought the bloud of christ on pilate the chiefe governour of the romans , and on them the chiefe rulers of the people , and in that respect they did out of state-policie charge them , and straightly command them , not to preach any more in the name of christ . as our saviour had commanded them , matth. 28. 19. yet peter and the rest of the apostles answered resolately , we ought to obey god rather then you ; and they appealed to themselves ( though most unjust adversaries ) to judge whether it were not right so to doe : and therefore it is as great a sinne now under the gospel , as it was under the law , to breake gods commandements , for feare , or any other affection or respect of men , or upon the commandements and threatnings of the greatest kings and potentates . if you will yet see this truth made more cleare and manifest , look into the examples of those severall persons , and also of those multitudes of people which are noted for great sinners , and were most severely punished for doing wicked acts , contrary to the law of god out of obedience to their rulers , and at the commandement of their kings who had power and authority over them ; the holy scriptures afford many examples of this kind in severall places , where they commend subjects and children for refusing to obey their superiours and parents in things which they commanded against the law of god ; and condemne others for obeying such wicked commandements out of feare , or for any other respect . when king saul commanded ionathan his sonne and all his servants that they should wait for an opportunity to slay david his innocent servant and sonne in law , and gods great and noble champion , he had a faire pretence of state-policie for it ( to wit , that david did steale away the hearts of his people , and aspired to the kingdome , and sought to depose him and to disinherit his sonnes : but because ionathan feared god , hee would not obey his father in murthering an innocent , contrary to gods law , but used all meanes that he could devise to discover his fathers wicked purposes to david , and to reserve him out of his cruell hands ; and this disobeying of the word and threatnings of the king , his father commanding him to slay an innocent , is highly commended in ionathan , and recorded for his praise and honour in the holy history , i sam. 19. so likwise we read that ionathan did ignorantly breake his fathers rash and foolish vow before he knew it , by eating honey which god unexpectedly offered to him when hee was faint and weary in his pursuit of the phihstines , whom hee and his armour bearer had rowted and put to flight , and thereby brought great deliverance to israel ; and when king saul his father for this act done out of inuicible ignorance , adjudged him to death , and swore with a great oath , that hee should dye ; the people of israel his subjects fearing god more then his anger , did not onely abhorre the act , and refuse to yeeld to his commandement , which had some shew and pretence of religion , but also did stand out and oppose themselves against it , and did save and rescue ionathan out of his hands , saying , god forbid that ionathan should dye , as the lord liveth there shall not one haire fall from his head to the ground , for hee hath wroughe with god this day , i sam. 14. 45. which speech of theirs implies , that it had been a great sinne to slay ionathan , as saul their king commanded , or to suffer him to dye for such a cause . but the most pregnant example of all is that of doeg the edomite , sauls chiefe heards-man , i sam. 22. where wee read that when king saul commanded the men of his guard ( whom hee had obliged to him by many preferments and gifts , as his upbraiding words in the seaventh verse seeme to imply , that they should slay the lords innocent preists whome he out of false and unjust suspition and jelousy supposed to conspire with david against him , they would not put forth their hands to fall upon them , as the text saith verse . 17. and doeg the edomite who at the kings commandement slue the preists and mangled and murthered their wives , and children and innocent sucklings , and like a bloudy oppressing tyrant spoyled their city and all their substance , is by the spirit of god in the mouth of david cursed with most dreadfull curses , though hee did these things in obedience to the king his lord , upon whose favour all his preferment did depend , the sentence of judgement passed upon him , psal. 52. that god would destroy him for ever , pluck him out of his dwelling , and root him out of the land of the living , doth most plainely shew , that his act was a most heinous sinne and wickednesse . in like manner when ieroboam commanded the israelites who had chosen him for their king , to worship god who brought them out of aegypt in the images of golden calves , such as aaron had before made at mount horeh , it is said in the text , that he made them to sinne , his command●ment did not excuse them , and their worship of images , neither did god spare to punish them for it , but ( as the prophet hosea testifieth , cap. 5. 11. ) ephraim , ( that is , the israelites of the ten tribes ) was oppressed and broken in judgement , because he willingly walked after the commandement ( that is ) of ieroboam , and also of baasha , and other wicked kings , who walked in the wayes of ieroboam , and made israel to sinne . and although omri , ahab , and iezabel were cruell tyrants , and by statutes , tyrannicall commands , terrours , threatnings , and slaughter of the lords prophets , teachers of gods true worship , did not onely draw ▪ but drive and force israel their people and subjects to worship baal , yet this excused not the peoples idolatry , but the lord threatens them by the prophet micha 6. 16. that because they kept the statutes of omri , and walked in the counsels and wayes of the house of ahab , therefore hee will make the land a desolation , and an hissing and reproach ; and for their forsaking of gods covenant , and worshipping of baal , idols and groves , eliah the man of god accuseth them all as great offenders deeply guilty , saying , the children of israel have forsaken thy covenant and broken downe thine altars , 1 king. 19. 14. and god in his answer to eliahs accusation exempts none from the guilt of these sinnes in all israel , but onely those seveven thousand men who had not been drawne by the terrours , threatnings , and cruell commands of ahab and iezabel to worship baal , but had kept their knees from bowing to him , and their mouthes from kissing him , as we see vers. 18 what man can plead more plausible for any disobedience to any commandement of god , then the man of god which came from iudah to bethel to prophesie against ieroboams altar , might plead for his eating bread and drinking water in that wicked idolatrous place , contrary to gods particular commandement given to him ; first , the thing forbidden , was a matter in it selfe very indifferent , there was no appearance of any evill in it , so long as he did not eate and drinke with infectious and infamous idolaters which might be a snare and scandall to him : secondly , his resolution and endeavour to keep this commandement was such that when king ieroboam thankfully invited him to eate and drinke out of kindnesse for healing his withered hand , he could not be overcome with any intreaty , nor promise of great gifts and rewards . thirdly , when he was seduced and drawne to eate and drinke in the place forbidden , it was the authority of the old prophet , and his respect to his words which he confidently affirmed to be the words of god which perswaded him to returne with him and to eate bread with him ; and yet all this could not excuse this man of god from sinne in doing contrary to gods commandement given to him , for god presently makes the old prophet which deceived him , a messenger of death to declare unto him his untimely death for his disobedience , and that his dead carkasse torne by a lyon should not come to the sepulchre of his fathers , 1 king. 13. whereby it is manifest that no power or authority of any man how fairely soever it is pretended to be from god can excuse any act done against any knowne commandement of god , though it be a commandement of a small indifferent thing , given onely to try mans obedience , but whosoever upon any respect to any creature , or by any perswasion doth transgresse any precept or word of god , he is guilty of sinne and worthy of death before gods just tribunall : sauls letters from the high-priests which gave him a commission and authority to persecute christians did not excuse him from sin though he did it in ignorance and blind zeale for he calls himselfe the greatest of sinners for that act of persecution , 1 tim. 1. 15. but i hold it needlesse to spend time in rehersing more examples to prove this doctrine , though it is of all doctrines the chiefest and most necessary to be beleeved , continually kept in mind , and observed of all adams posterity . i will onely adde one strong and invincible argument and demonstration to convince all men of the truth thereof grounded upon divers solid principles of reason and religion . first , it is a thing which none but atheists can or will deny , that when any creature stands in competition with god , and seekes to bee respected and obeyed before god , and to have his demands and commands yeelded unto , which are contrary to the will and law of god , as he in that case seekes to rob god of his due honour and glory , and to exalt himselfe above god , which is luciserian pride & rebellion ; so they who in such a case obey him , whether for feare , or love , or any respect and affection in a thing contrary to any word or commandement of god , they do undobtedly rob god of his glory and of the honour which properly belongs to him , for god as the creator of all things , and giver of being , life and breath to all creatures severally , who also upholds and preserves them all in being and well being , and sustaines them by his providence ; so he is the chiefe father of all , worthy to be respected , loved , and obeyed above all other parents and benefactors , who are but instruments of his bounty , and subordinate meanes of our being and other benefits : he also by the right both of creation , and also of redemption is the chiefe king , lord , owner and possessor of all things in heaven and earth , to whom all hearts , hands , wills , desires and affections ought to be subject and obedient in all things , and at all times . besides , if we consider god in himselfe as he is revealed in his word and workes to be the one only true jehovah , eternall , omnipotent , immortal , immutable , infinite in goodnesse , bounty , wisdome , mercy , justice , faithfulnesse and truth , most mighty wise and prudent to order , rule and governe all the world , most bountifull to reward all obedience , and most just to punish , and dreadfull and terrible in revenging all disobedience against his word and law ; wee cannot but acknowledge and confesse , that hee is the supreame lord of all lords , king of kings , and the eternally blessed and onely potentate , who is in all things to bee obeyed above all , and before all ; and all lords , kings , fathers , and benefactors are to bee obeyed onely in and under him as his substitutes , subordinate vicegerents , stewards , and messengers , whosoever doe , out of feare , love , or any affection and respect to any creature , doe any thing contrary to his kowne will , word and commandement , they rob him of his honour and glory , set up the creature above the creator , and make it their god , which must needes by all reasonable men be confessed to be a most heinous and grievous sinne worthy of gods wrath and all punishments . this is the solid argument and invincible demonstration which fully proves the doctrine , which i will briefly reduce into the strict forme of a sylogisme , thus , whosoever robs the king , and lord of lords , the blessed and onely potentate and cheife father and authour of all being goodnesse , and bounty , by taking from him the honour and glory which doth properly belong to him , and setteth up the creature and servant above his lord and creator , he is guilty of most heinous sinne and transgression . every one who out of feare , love , or any affection and respect to any creature , doth any act contrary to the revealed will , word , and commandement of god , robbeth thereby god the supream lord , king , father , and benefactor ; and setteth up the creature and servant above his lord and creator . therefore he is guilty in this of heinous sinne and transgression ; and by consequence it followeth necessarily , that ( as this doctrine teacheth ) no feare , threatning , or commandement of earthly potentates , no love , or respect of parents and benefactors can free from the foule staine of sinne in any act , which they draw men to doe contrary to the commandement of god . this doctrine is of speciall use : first , to admonish all gods people to be carefull and diligent above all to know and acknowledge god aright , and to set their hearts and affections chiefly on him as the supreme lord and father of all , and the chiefe author and fountaine of all goodnesse , and to put on a setled resolution to obey all his commandements , though all the world should perswade & command them ro the contrary . it is true that kings , rulers , and potentates of the world are set up by god to rule by him and under him , as his vice-geren●s , stewards , and messengers , and all men who are under them , especiaily christians ( gods free and willing people ) ought to give them all honour and reverence and to feare and obey them for conscience sake in and under god ; the very law of nature binds all men to love , reverence , honour and obey their parents and benefactors , who are gods instruments of their being and well being ; and not onely civility and the common law of nations bindes men to honour and respect them who are honourable in wisdome , gravity , and authority , but religion and gods word teach men to honour and affect such as are prophets , preachers , embassadours and messengers of god unto them : but yet all these are to be loved , feared honoured and respected in and under god , and with feare , love , and affection subordinate to the feare , love , and affection which they have towards god above all : wherefore let all gods people take heed and beware , and carefully looke to it , that they give not too much way to humane passions and affections by regarding and respecting secondary meanes and inferiour causes more then god the first and chiefe cause , author and bountaine of all blessings , or by accustoming themselves to esteeme too highly , or to love , feare and admire too excessively the persons of men , how great , wise , and learned , or how aimiable and honourable soever they appeare in their eyes ; if men once give way so far to the reverence , awe , feare , and dread of earthly kings , rulers and potentates , that they become more affraid of their faces , angry countenances , menacing and threatnings , then of the terrours of gods law and of his wrathfull judgements ; this is that which will draw them to disobey gods word and law , out of respect to mortall men and will bring them under the staine and guilt of unecusable sinne laid open in this text and doctrine : so likewise excessive love , carnall affection , and respect of parents and benefactors ( while men set their eyes and hearts on the things which are visible and sensible , and on the outward meanes more then on the invisible hand , power and goodnesse of god ) may easily supplant them and make them fall in like sort into heinous sinne and inexcusable transgression . but most dangerous of all is that superstitious feare , reverence and respect which men out of blind and undifereet zeale without knowledge doe shew to such as are set over them to rule and direct them in things which concerne god , religion , and godlinesse , and hold the place of prophets , messengers , bishops , wise pastors and learned teachers in gods church ; when men are so enthralled in their wills , and become slaves in their affections , that they are ready to beleeve and embrace whatsoever they hold and teach without proofe from gods word , or examination of things taught by the word or consent with the word and rule of faith , they are in the high way to horrible and dangerous errours and disobedience to the law of god , into which whosoever fall being led by immoderate affection and more then due respect to any persons whatsoever , he may here learne from gods proceeding against adam ( the common father and root of all mankinde ) that god will admit no excuse for breaking any of his commandements out of any respect , or any feare , reverence , love or affection to any persons , how great , wise , learned , honourable or aimiable soever they appeare to him . as adam by his excuse could not turne away the guilt and punishment of his disobedience , but had a curse laid on the ground , and all paines , sorrowes and death it selfe on himselfe and all his posterity : so it shall fare with all adams seed and children in the like case , for there is no respect of persons with god . secondly , this doctrine discovers unto us abundance of error in the judgements , and iniquity in the practice of many worldly-wise and learned men , especially in those state-polititions , admirers of worldly power , greatnesse and authority , who doe thinke and hold , that they may lawfully doe things commanded by such as have the rule over them , without examining whether they be allowed or forbidden in the law of god . if kings and great potentates command them under great penalties , as losse of goods , liberty , or lives , torturing , imprisoning and death to make images of god , and to bow down to images and altars of wood and stone , and to practice superstitious will-worship , or to do as proud and potent nebuchadnezar commanded all his people to worship his image under paine of burning to ashes in an hot firie furnace : or if a law and decree were made ( like that which darius made by the advice of his wicked and malicious princes ) for a snare to gods people , forbidding the true worship of god . it is the common opinion of self-conceited wordlings abundantly wise and politick in their own opinion , that there is no danger in obeying , no feare of unexcusable sin , and that they who are afraid to obey such commands , and to stirre their consciences with guilt of sin by breaking gods law , are too scrupulous , worthy of contempt ; yea that they are mad men , who in such cases wil hazard their lives , goods , or liberty . but the 3. faithfull servants of god , full of the holy spirit were of a contrary opinion and resolution , ( as dan. 3. ) though nebuchadnezar was a mighty potentate , and had highly promoted them to honour and dignity , and the thing which he commanded was only to fall downe and worship his golden image , yet they utterly refused to doe such an act forbiden in gods law , and did rather chuse to yeeld their bodies to death and to be burned in his hot fiery furnace : and so likewise daniel that holy seruant of god , so famous in his time for learning wisdome and favour with god , he regarded not the decree of the wicked princes which restrained him from the worship of his god and from praing to him for the space of thirty dayes under paine of being cast into the den of lions , but notwithstanding it was confirmed by his great lord and king darius and sealed with his seale , he would not refraine from his constant course & custom of prayer and worship of his god , wich he knew to be a duety daly and continually required by the divine law , and did chuse rather to forgoe all the honours and promotions which the king had bestowed on him , and to be cast into the den of lions , then to disobey gods commandement by obeying the kings decree : and such hath the opinion , resolution and practice of all gods noble wortheys and faithful serevants been in all ages . wherefore let me here be bold to spend some few words in arguing against , and conuincing the blind carnal wicked world , and in discovering that wisdome which is commonly callen state-policy , to be folly and enmity against god , which i wil do very breifly by answering and taking away those foolish excuses of carnal men which are as vaine and unable to shroud and defend them from the staine of sin and gods just wrath , as the fig-leaves patched together by our first parents were unfit to cover their nakednes● some when they are commanded by great potentates & cruell tyrants to worship god in images and in altars of wood and stone or the like , or are forbidden to professe the truth and true religion and to practice the holy worship of god , that under pain of death , persecution , imprisonment , spoyling of their goods , and losse of all worldly substance , they are very f●●ward and earnest to plead , that authority must be obeyed & the powers must not be resisted , and that it is no wisedome to undergoe losse of goods , liberty and life for conscience and needlesse fear of breaking gods commandements . but let me tell such pleaders , that ephraim , & the israelits of the ten tribes had as good a plea , and the same excuse for their forsaking of the covenant of the lord , & for worshipping of baal , calves , idols & groves , in the daies of ieroboam , ahab & other wicked kings , their kings did comaund them so to do for a politike reason of state even to keep them from going up to worship god at ierusalem , lest by that means they might be drawne away and revolt to the house of dauid , and reunite themselves to the kingdome of iudah : also some of their kings were cruell tyrants which persecuted the true . prophets and worshippers of god , and by feare of death and other great penalties forced and compelled men to commit idolatry , as we read in the dayes of ahab and iezabel , and as appeares by eliahs complaint unto god , 1 king. 19. and yet this was no excuse of the peoples idolatry and sinne , for ephraim was oppressed and broken in judgement because hee willingly walked after ieroboams commandement , as hosea testifieth , hos. 5. 11. and because they kept the statutes of omri , doing the workes of the house of ahab , and walking in their counsels , the lord gives this sentence against them by the prophet micha , that he will make their land a desolation , and them an hissing and reproach , micha 6. 16. our saviour in the gospel discovers to us how vaine and frivolous all such excuses will be found before his tribunall , where hee saith , that whosoever loves houses , lands , goods , or life it selfe more then him , insomuch that they will rather deny , and not confesse him before men , then indanger or lose their life , liberty , or wordly goods , they are not worthy to be counted his disciples , and hee will deny them in the presence of his father and before his holy angels ; and as they feared them who could kill the body only and were not able to kill the soule , more then god who could destroy both soule and body in hell ; so they shall lose their life which they loved more then him they shall also be excluded from life eternall , and so cast wholly both soules and bodies into hell , into the fire which never shall be quenched , and dye and perish eternally , matth. 10. 28 mark 8. 35. luk. 9. 24. secondly , whereas oathes are to be given and taken in truth , in judgement , and righteousnesse , ier. 4. 2. that is , men must not sweare any false thing but onely what is true , neither to raise up strife , nor to doe injury , or to hurt any man , but to put an end to strife by laying open in judgement things as they are , neither must they bind themselves by oath to doe any vain , unjust or wicked against christian charity , or to execute any unlawfull office . now there are and have beene in all ages divers politick worldlings and cowardly hypocrites , who when vaine or sinfull oathes are imposed on them , such as the elders and nobles of iezrael imposed on the wicked men whom they set up to sweare falsely , that naboath blasphemed god and the king ; or such as the iewes tooke to kill paul , act. 23. 12. or such as traytors take to conceale or act treasons ; or as many corrupt men take to execute unlawfull offices and unjust designes , which are hurtfull and injurious to divers others either in church or common-wealth . if these oathes be imposed by men of authority , who rule over them , or under great penalties , as trouble , vexation , imprisonment , and losse of liberty , or with hope of some preferment , profit , and gaine , which they may reape by executing an unlawfull office ; they are ready to plead for themselves that they are excusable , because they did take such oathes , and doe execute such offices by command of superiours and in obedience to authority , and that otherwise they should forgoe a profitable office and trade which doth maintaine and enrich them and their family , and should be vexed , troubled , fined , impoverished , imprisoned , and deprived of their libertie . but let mee answer such in the words of holy iob , chap. 27. 8. what is the hope of the hypocrite that he hath gained , when god taketh away his soule ? what will his gainefull office advantage him when god findeth and judgeth him guilty for profaning his holy ordinance and taking his name in vaine ? yea , our saviour fully answereth such hypocrites , and discovereth the folly of such worldly polititions in expresse words , saying , what is a man profited to gaine the whole world , and lose his owne soule ; or what shall a man give in exchange for his soule , matth. 16. 26. all the liberty and freedome from bands and imprisonment , all the worldly profits , pleasures , goods , and wealth which men purchase and procure to themselves by their obsequious observing of great ones , and obeying the authority and commandements of men in things contrary to the word and law of god , will yeeld them no comfort at all , but rather adde to their torment in that flaming fire wherein god will render vengeance to them , and punish them with everlasting destruction from his presence and the glory of his power , and shut them up with the devill and damned spirits in the prison of blacknesse and darknesse for ever world without end . lastly , whereas many who are wise in their owne conceit , and most politicke for the world and in wordly matters , when they are commanded as doeg was by saul his lawfull king to mangle , murder , and massacre the innocent servants of god , and to oppresse and spoile them of goods , lands and lives , as the nobles of naboaths city were by iezabels letters written in ahabs name and sealed with his seale , or to execute cruell and bloudy sentences given by judges of unrighteousnesse under the name and colour of the law , by haling to prison , torturing and punishing christian people men and women ; as saul did when he was a persecutor armed with commission and letters from the high priests , they perswade themselves and plead confidently , that it is no sinne in them to doe such things , though in themselves most unjust and contrary to the law of god , but that the sinne and guilt lyes wholly on their superiours , and on the judges , which by their authority and imperious commands , doe impose upon them such executions , and they the executioners shall never be called to account , nor undergoe the punishment of just revenge from god : let all such be admonished by this doctrine , that this their plea and perswasion will never excuse them before god , but as they have an hand in wicked workes , and are executioners of cruell and ungodly sentences , so they shall have their share in the just punishments of such heinous transgressions , and the righteous and supreme judge will cause just vengeance to be executed on them also : it is true that seducors and perswaders of others to sinne ; and all they who by their power and authority , feare and awe cause others to commit wickednes , as they are cheife authours there of next under the divill , the father of all iniquity , and the blood of those whome they haue seduced , compelled and caused to transgresse gods holy commandements , shall ly heavy upon them , and god will certainly require it at their hands , so shall they chiefly bear the curse and punishment : but they who are seduced and led by them through blind obedience shall not escape , but shall also fall with them into the pit of destruction ; and all they who are voluntarily instruments of cruell oppression , violence , or any wickednesse , they shall undoubtedly dye and perish in those sinnes of which they are partakers with them , who set them on worke to doe wickedly , there is no way for them to escape gods revenging curse but by godly griefe and sorrow to repentance , and by seeking and finding pardon in christ . wherefore behold your folly and wilfull madnesse yee worklly polititions who are so wise to worke your owne ruine , who by vaine excuses and subtile fallacies of fleshly reason doe blinde your owne eyes , and hardon your hearts not to repent ; alas ! what comfort will it be to you that your great lords whom you feared and obeyed , and the unrighteous judges , whose cruell sentences yee executed , doe chiefely beare the curse and punishment of that cruelty , injustice , and iniquity , which they acted by your hands ? what ease or mitigation of sorrow , paine , and griefe , will it be to you , that you see them leade the way and goe before you ? when you also follow them at the heeles , and dance after them attendance unto hell , there to remaine for ever in the lake which burnes with fire and brimstone , where the worme dyeth not , and the fire never goeth out , but burneth eternally , and is unquenchable world without end . from which wrath and eternall woe the lord deliver us for his mercies sake , and through the meritorious satisfaction of the lord jesus christ our redeemer and saviour ; to whom with the father and the blessed spirit be all glory , honour and praise now and for ever . amen . ●inis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a67115e-130 doct. reason . vse 1. vse 2. the religion of the hypocritical presbyterians, in meeter phillips, john, 1631-1706. 1661 approx. 45 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-01 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a54774 wing p2097 estc r36676 15869350 ocm 15869350 104655 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a54774) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 104655) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1154:18) the religion of the hypocritical presbyterians, in meeter phillips, john, 1631-1706. [2], 22 p. [s.n.], london printed : 1661. "an attack on oliver cromwell and puritanism by john phillips, nephew of milton, originally published in 1655, and later published with title a satyre against hypocrites"--nuc pre-1956 imprints. caption title: the religion of the hypocritical presbyterian. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng cromwell, oliver, 1599-1658. presbyterians -anecdotes. puritans -anecdotes. 2002-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2002-10 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2002-11 john latta sampled and proofread 2002-11 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2002-12 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the religion of the hypocritical presbyterians in meeter . juvenal . sat. 1. si natura negat , facit indignatio versum . juvenal . sat. 14. — velocius & citius nos — corrumpunt vitiorum exempla domestica , magnis cum subeant animos autoribus . london printed in the year 1661. the religion of the hypocritical presbyterians . tedious have been our fasts , and long our prayers ; to keep the sabbath such have been our cares , that cisly durst not milk the gentle mulls , to the great damage of my lord mayors fooles , which made the greazie catch poles swear and curse the holy-day for want o'th'second course ; and men have lost their body's new adorning because their cloathes could not come home that morning . the sins of parlament have long been bawl'd at , the vices of the city have been yawl'd at , yet no amendment ; certainly , thought i , this is a paradox beyond all cry . why if you ask the people , very proudly they answer straight , that they are very godly . nor could we lawfully suspect the priest , alas , for he cry'd out , i bring you christ : and trul ' he spoke with so much confidence , that at that time it seem'd a good pretence : then where 's the fault ? thought i : well , i must know , so putting on clean cuffs , to church i go . now 'gan the bells to jangle in the steeple , and in a row to church went all the people . first came poor matrons stuck with lice like cloves , devoutly come to worship their white loaves ; and may be smelt above a german mile , well , let them go to fume the middle-ile . but here 's the sight that doth men good to see 't , grave burghers , with their posies , sweet , sweet , sweet , with their fat wives . then comes old robin too , who although write or read he neither do , yet hath his testament chain'd to his wast , and his blind zeal feels out the proofs as fast , and makes as greasie dogs-ears as the best . a new-shav'd cobler follows him , as it hapt , with his young cake-bread in his cloak close wrapt ; then panting comes his wife from t'other end o' th' town , to hear our father and see a friend ; then came the shops young fore-man , 't is presum'd , with hair rose-water'd , and his gloves perfum'd , with his blew shoo-strings too , and besides that , a riband with a sentence in his hat : the virgins too , the fair one , and the gypsie , spectatum veniunt , venient spectentur ut ipsae . and now the silk'n dames throng in , good store , and casting up their noses , to th' pew dore they come , croud in , for though the pew be full they must and will have room , i , that they wull ; streight that she sits not uppermost distast one takes ; 't is fine that i must be displac't by you , she cries then , good mistris gill flurt ; gill flurt , enrag'd cries t'other , why ye dirt tie piece of impudence , ye ill-bred thief , i scorn your terms , good mistris thimble-mans wife . marry come up , cries t'other , pray forbear , surely your husband 's but a scavenger , cries t'other then , and what are you i pray ? no aldermans wife for all you are so gay . is it not you that to all christenings frisk it ? and to save bread , most shamefully steal the bisket , at which the other mad beyond all law , unsheaths her talons , and prepares to claw . and sure some gorgets had been torn that day , but that the readers voice did part the fray . now what a wardrobe could i put to view , the cloak-bag-breeches , and the sleek-stone shoe , the gallimafry cloak that looks like nonsence , now wide , now narrow , like his master's conscience : the grogram-gown of such antiquity , that speed could never find its pedigree ; fit to be doted on by antiquary's , who hence may descant in their old glossary's , what kinde of fardingale fair helen wore , how wings in fashion came , because wings bore the swan-transformed leda to iove's lap , our matrons hoping thence the same good hap ; the pent-house bever , and calves-chaudron ruff , but of this frantick fashion now enough , for now there shall no more of them be said , lest this my ware-house spoil the french-men's trade , and now as if i were that woollen-spinster , that doth so gravely show you sarum minster , i le lead you round the church from pew to pew , and shew you what doth most deserve your view , there stood the font , in times of christianity , but now 't is tak'n down , men call it vanity ; there the church-wardens sit , hard by the dore , but know ye why they sit among the poor ? because they love um well for love o' th' box , their money buys good beef , good wine , good smocks . there sits the clerk , and there the reverend reader , and there 's the pulpit for the good flock-feeder , who in three lamentable dolefull dity's unto their marriage-fees sing nunc dimittis . here sits a learned justice , truly so some people say , and some again say no , and yet methinks in this he seemeth wise to make stypone yeild him an excise , and though on sundayes ale-houses must down , yet wisely all the week lets them alone , for well his worship knows that ale-house sins maintain himself in gloves , his wife in pins . there sits the mayor as fat as any bacon with eating custard , beef , and rumps of capon ; and there his corpulent brethren sit by , with faces representing gravity , who having money , though they have no wit , they wear gold-chains , and here in green pews sit . there sit true-blew the honest parish-masters . with sattin caps , and ruffs , and demi-casters , and faith that 's all ; for they have no rich fansies , no poets are , nor authors of romances . there sits a lady fine , painted by art , and there sits curious mistris fiddle-cum-fart : there sits a chamber-maid upon a hassock , whom th' chaplain oft instructs without his cassock : one more accustom'd unto curtain-sins , than to her thimble , or to handle pins . o what a glosse her forehead smooth adorns ! excelling phoebe with her silver horns . it tempts a man at first , yet strange to utter , when one comes near , fogh gudds , it stinks of butter . another tripping comes to her mistris's pew , where being arriv'd , she tryes if she can view her young mans face , and straight heaves up her coats , that her sweet-heart may see her true-love knots . but having sate up late the night before to let the young man in at the back-dore , she feeleth drowzinesse upon her creeping , turns down one proof , and then she falls a sleeping . then fell her head one way , her book another , and surely she did dream by what we gather ; for long she had not slept , when a rude flea upon her groyn sharply began to prey ; straight she ( twixt sleep and waking ) in great ire , as if sh 'ad sitting been by th' kitchin fire , pulls up her coats with both hands , smock and all , and with both hands to scratch and scrub doth fall . truly the priest , though some did , saw her not , for he was praying , and his eyes were shut . alas had he seen as much as a by-stander , much more from 's text it would have made him wander . that 's call'd the gallery , which ( as you may see ) was trimm'd and guilt in the year fifty three . t was a zealous work , & done by two church-wardens , who for mis-reckoning hope to have their pardons , there will writes short-hand with a pen of brass , oh how he 's wonder'd at by many an asse that see him shake so fast his warty fist , as if he 'd write the sermon 'fore the priest has spoke it ; then , o that i could ( saies one ) do but as this man does , i 'de give a crown ▪ up goes another hand , up goe his eyes , and he , gifts , industry , and talents cries . thus are they plac'd at length : a tedious work , and now a bellowing noise went round the kirk , from the low font , up to the golden creed . ( o happy they who now no eares do need ▪ ) while these cought up their morning flegm , and those do trumpet forth the snivel of their nose ; straight then the clerk began with potsheard voice to grope a tune , singing with wofull noise , like a crackt sans-bell jarring in the steeple , tom sternholds wretched prick song to the people : who soon as he hath plac'd the first line through , up steps chuck-farthing then , and he reads too : this is the womans boy that sits i' th' porch till th' sexton comes , and brings her stool to church , then out the people yaule an hundred parts , some roar , some whine , some creak like wheels of carts , such notes that gamut never yet did know , nor numerous keys of harpsicalls in a row their heights and depths could ever comprehend , now below double ar● some descend , 'bove ela squealing now ten notes some flie ; straight then as if they knew they were to high , with head-long haste down staires again they tumble ; discords and concords o how thick they jumble ! like untam'd horses tearing with their throats one wretched stave into an hundred notes . some lazie-throated fellowes thus did baule they a i hin a moy a meat uh ga have a ha me uh a ha gall a. and some out-run their words and thus they say , too cruel for to think a hum a haw , now what a whetstone was it to devotion to see the pace , the looks , and every motion o' th sunday levite when up stairs he march't , and first beheld his little band stiff starcht , two caps he had , and turns up that within , you 'd think he wore a black pot tipt with tin , his cuffs asham'd peept only out at 's wrist , for they saw whiter gloves upon his fist , out comes his kerchief then , which he unfolds as gravely as his text , and fast he holds in 's wrath-denouncing hand ; then mark when he pray'd how he rear'd his reverend whites , and softly said a long most murcifull , or o al — then out he whines the rest like a sad ditty , in a most dolefull recitative style , his buttocks keeping crotchet time the while ; and as he slubbers ore his tedious story makes it his chiefest aim his chiefest glory , t' excell the city dames in speaking fine , o for the drippings of an old sir loyn , instead of aron's oyntment for his face , when he cries out for greace instead of grace ▪ up stept another then , how fowre his face is ! how grim he lookt , for he was one o th' classis , and here he cries , blood , blood , blood , destroy , o lord ! the covenant-breaker , with a two edg'd sword . now comes another , of another strain , and he of law and bondage doth complain : then shewing his broad teeth , and grinning wide , aloud , free grace , free grace , free grace , he cry'd . up went a chaplain then , fixing his eye devoutly on his patron 's gallery , who as duty binds him , cause he eats their pyes , god blesse my good lord and my lady , cryes , and 's hopefull issue . then with count'nance sad , up steps a man stark revelation mad , and he , cause us thy saints , for thy dear sake , that we a bustle in the world may make , thy enemies now rage , and by and by he tears his throat for the fift monarchy . another mounts his chin , east , west , north , south , gaping to catch a blessing in his mouth , and saying , lord ! we dare not ope our eyes before thee , winks for fear of telling lies . mean while the vulgar frie sit still , admiring their pious sentences , as all inspiring ; at every period they sigh and grone , though he speak sometimes sense , and sometimes none : their zeal doth never let them mind that matter , it is enough to hear the magpy chatter ; they croud , they thrust , are crouded , and are thrusted , their pews seem pasties , wherein they incrusted , together bake and fry ; o patience great ! yet they endure , though almost drown'd in sweat , whose steaming vapours prove most singular to stew hard doctrines in , and to prepare them , lest they should breed some ugly disease being tak'n raw in queasie consciences . but further mark their great humility , their tender love and mutual charity , the short man's shoulder bore the tall man's elbow , nor he so much as call'd him scurvy fellow , wrath was forgot , all anger was forborn , although his neighbour trod upon his corn ; and in a word , all men were meek and humble , nor dar'd the sexton , though unfeed , to grumble ▪ he honest man went with his neck a skew , gingling his bunch of keys from pew to pew ; good man to 's market-day he bore no spleen , but wish'd the seven dayes had sabbaths been ; how he worships sattin , with what a gospel-fear he admires the man that doth a bever wear , room , room , bear leave , he cries , then not unwilling with a pater noster face receives the shilling . but what was more religious then to see the women in their strains of piety , who like the seraphins in various hews adorn'd the chancell and the highest pews . but now good middle-ile-folks all give room , see where the mothers and the daughters come ! behind the servants looking all like martyrs , with bibles in plush jerkins and blew garters , the silver inkhorn and the writing book , in which i wish no friend of mine to look . now must we not forget the children too , who with their fore-tops gay stand up i th pew , alas-a-day ! for there is great contention , to tie this lock who hath the best invention . well , be good children , for the time shall come , when on the pulpit-stairs ye shall have room , there to be asked many a question deep , by th' parson , with his dinner , half a sleep . but now aloft the preacher 'gan to thunder , when the poor women they sit trembling under , and if he name gehenna or the dragon , their faith , alas ! was little then to brag on ; or if he did relate , how little wit the foolish virgins had , then do they fit weeping with watry-eyes , and making vows one to have preachers alwaies in her house , to dine them well , and breakfast um with gelly's and caudles hot to warm their wambling belly 's , and if the cash where she could not unlock it were close secur'd , to pick her husbands pocket : another something a more thrifty sinner to invite the parson twice a week to dinner ; the other vowes a purple pulpit-cloth with an embroyder'd cushion , being loth when the fierce priest his doctrine hard unbuckles , that in the passion he should hurt his knuckles : nay , in the church-yard too was no small throng , and on the window-barres in swarms they hung : nay , i could see that many short-hand wrote , where listning well , i could not hear a jote ; friend , this is strange , quoth i , but he reply'd , alas ! your ears are yet unsanctify'd . but sermon 's done , and evening now approaches , the people walk , for none dare go in coaches ; and as they go , god , grace , and ordinances , is all their chat , seem in heav'nly trances ; thus they trim up their souls with holy words , shaving off sin as men shave off their beards , to grow the faster ; sins , they cry , are fancies , the godly live above all ordinances . now they 're at home , and have their suppers eat , when thomas , cries the master , come repeat ; and if the windows gaze upon the street , to sing a psalm they hold it very meet . but would you know what a preposterous zeal they sing their hymnes withall ? then listen well , the boy begins , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , thomas hum , hum , did you enter down the ten yards of water'd-tabby to the lady in covent-garden ? hum , hum , yes sir , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum , hum . — pray remember to receive the hundred pound in gracious-street to morrow . — hum hum hum . hum hum hum hum mary , hum hum hum hum , — anon forsooth . pray remember to rise betimes to morrow morning , you know you have a great many cloathes to sope , hum , hum hum , hum , &c. but sunday now good night , and now good morrow , to thee oh covenant wednesday full of sorrow , alas ! my lady anne wont now be merry , she 's up betimes and gone to alderman-bury , truly 't was a sad day , for every sinner did feast a supper then , and not a dinner ; nor men nor women wash their face to day , put on their cloathes , and pisse , and so away ; they throng to church just as they sell their ware , in greasie hats , and old gowns worn thread bare , where , though th' whole body suffered tedious pain , no member yet had more cause to complain than the poor nose , when little to its ease , a chandlers cloak perfum'd with candle-grease , commixing sents with a sope-boylers breeches , did raise a stink beyond the skill of witches . now steams of garlick through the nostrils passage made thorough-fairs , hell take their bold embassage , with these mundungus and a breath that smells like standing-pools in subterraneal cells . compos'd pomanders to out-stink the devil , yet strange to tell , they sufferd all this evil , nor to make water all the while would rise , the women sure had spunges 'twixt their thighs : to stir at this good time they thought was sin , so strictly their devotion kept them in . now the priest's elbows do the cushion knead ▪ while to the people he his text doth read , beloved , i shall here crave leave to speak a word , he cries and winks , unto the weak , the words are these , make haste and do not tarry , but unto babylon thy dinner carry , there doth young daniel want in the den , thrown among lyons by hard-harted men . here my beloved , and then he reaches down his hand , as if he 'd catch the clerk by th' crown . not to explain this pretious text amiss , daniel's the subject , hunger th' object is , which proves that daniel was subject to hunger , but that i mayn't detain you any longer , my brethren all prick up your ears , and put on your senses all while i the words unbutton . make haste , i say , make haste and do not tarry , ] why ? my beloved , these words great force do carry . au ! 't is a waundrous emphatical speech , some men beloved , as if th' had lead i' their breech , do walk , and some ( as snails ) do creep as fast : truly , my brethren , these men do not make haste . but be ye quick , 1 dear sisters , be ye quick , and lest ye fall , take hope , hope 's like a stick . to babylon ] ah babylon ! that word 's a weighty one , truly 't was a great city , and a mighty one . which as the learned rider well records , semiramis did build with brick and bords . wicked semiramis , oh how i stretch ! my spirit is mightily provok'd against that wretch . lustfull semiramis , for will i wist thou wert the mother of proud antichrist . nay , like to levi and simeon from antiquity , the pope and thee were sisters in iniquity . strumpet semiramis , like her was non , for she built babylon , ah! she built babylon . but , 2 brethren , be ye good as she was evil , must ye needs go because she 's gone to the devil ? thy dinner carry . ] here may we look upon a childe of god in great affliction : why what does he aile ? alas ! he wanteth meat , now what ( beloved ) was sent him for to eat ? truly a small matter ; one a dish of pottage , but pray what pottage ? such as a small cottage afforded only to the country swains , from whence , though not a man the place explains , 't is guess'd that neither christmas pottage 't was , nor white-broth , nor capon-broth , good for sick maws , nor milk-porrage , or thick pease-porrage either , nor was it mutton-broth , nor veal-broth neither , but sure some homely stuff crum'd with brown-bread , and thus was daniel , good daniel fed . truly , this was but homely fare you 'll say , yet daniel , good daniel was content that day . and though there could be thought on nothing cheaper , yet fed as well on 't as he had been a reaper . 3 better eat any thing than not at all , fasting , beloved , why ? 't is prejudiciall to the weak saints , beloved 't is a sin , and thus to prove the same i will begin : hunger , beloved , why ? this hunger mauls , au ! 't is a great mauler , it breaks stone-walls , now my beloved , to break stone-walls you know , why 't is flat felony , and there 's great woe follows that sin , besides 't is a great schism , 't is ceremonious , 't is pagan judism , judism ? why beloved , have you ere been where the black dog of newgate you have seen ? hair'd like a turk , with eyes like antichrist , he doth and hath ye brethren long entic't . claws like a star-chamber bishop , black as hell , and doubtlesse he was one of those that fell . judism i say is uglier than this dog : truly & caetera's not so foul a hog . thrown among lyons by hard-harted men , ] here daniel is the church , the world 's the den. by lyons are meant monarchs , kings of nations , those worse than heathenish abominations : truly dear friends , these kings and governours , these bishops too , nay all superiour powers , why they are lyons , locusts , whales , i whales , beloved , off goes our ears if once their wrath be moved ; but woe unto you kings ! woe to you princes ! 't is fifty and four , now antichrist , so saies my book must reign three daies , and three half daies , why that is three years and a half beloved . or else as many precious men have proved one thousand two hundred and threescore daies , why now the time 's almost expir'd , time staies for no man ; friends then antichrist shall fall , then down with rome , with babel , down with all , down with the devil , the pope , the emperour , with cardinals , and the king of spain's great power ; they 'l muster up , but i can tell you where , at armageddon , there , beloved , there , fall on , fall on , kill , kill , alow , alow , kill amaleck , and turk , kill gog and magog too . but who dear friends fed daniel thus forsak'n , truly ( but there 's one sleeps , a would do well to awak'n . ) as 't is in th' english his name ends in ock , and so his name is called habacuck . but in th' original it ends in ock for that dear sisters calls him have-a-cock . and truly i suppose i need not fear but that there are many have-a-cocks here : the laud increase the number of have-a-cocks , truly false prophets will arise in flocks ; but as a farding candle shut up quite in a dark lanthorn never giveth light ; even such are they . ay but my brethren dear i 'am no such lanthorn , for my horns are clear . but i shall now conclude this glorious truth with an exhortation to old men and youth : be sure to feed young daniel , that 's to say , feed all your ministers that preach and pray . first , of all cause 't is good , i speak that know so , fourthly , cause 't is no evil for to do so . thirdly , because 't is very good , and twelfthly , cause there 's nought better , unlesse i my self lye . but now he smells the pyes begin to reak , his teeth water , and he can no longer speak : and now it will not be amisse to tell ye how he was troubled with a woman's belly ; for she was full of caudle and devotion , which in her stomach raised a commotion , for the hot vapours much did damnifie , the woman went to walk in finsbury . so though a while she was sustain'd with ginger , yet at the length a cruel pain did twinge her ; and like as marble sweats before a shower , so did she sweat , and sweating forth did pour her mornings draught of sugar sops and saffron , into her sighing neighbours cambrick apron . at which a lard she cry'd full sad to see the foul mishap , yet suffer'd patiently : how do you then she cry'd ? i 'me glad 't is up : ah sick , sick , sick ; cryes one , oh for a cup of my mint water that 's at home . as patt as might be , then the parson cry'd , 't is good ; one holds her head , let 't come let 't come . still crying ; just i' th' nick , the priest reply'd , yea like a stream ye ought to let it flow , and then she reach'd , and once more let it go . streight an old woman with a brace of chins , a bunch of keys , and cushion for her pins , seeing in earnest the good woman lack it , draws a strong-water bottle from her placket ; well heated with her flesh , she takes a sup , then gives the sick , and bids her drink it up . but all in vain , her eyes begin to roul , she sighs , and all cry out , alas poor soul ! one then doth pinch her cheek , one pulls her nose , some blest the opportunity that were her foes , and they reveng'd themselves upon her face , s. dunstans devil was ne're in such a case . now priest say what thou wilt , for here 's a chat begun of this great empyrick , and that renowned doctor , what cures they have done : i like not mayern , he speaks french sayes one . oh sayes another , though the man be big , for my part , i know none like dr. trig. nay , hold you there sayes t'other , on my life there 's none like chamberlain the man midwife . then in a heap , their own receipts they muster to make this gelly , how to make that plaster , which when she heares , but that now fainting lay , up starteth she , and talkes as fast as they . but they that did not mind this dolefull passio followed their businesse on another fashion , for all did write , the elder and the novice , me thought the church look't like the six clerks office . but sermon 's done , and all the folks as fast as they can trudge , to supper now make haste : down comes the priest , when a grave brother meets him , and putting off his narrow-brim'd hat , thus greets him : deare sir , my wife and i do you invite o' th' creature with us to partake this night : and now suppose what i prepare to tell ye , the city-dame , whose faith is in the belly of her cramm ' priest , had all her cates in order , that gracious-street , or cheap-side can afford her . lo first a pudding ! truly 't had more reasons than forty sermons shew at forty seasons . then a sur-loyne came in , as hot as fire , yet not so hot as was the priests desire . next came a shoulder of mutton rosted raw , to be as utterly abolisht as the law. the next in order was a capon plump , with an use of consolation in his rump . then came a turky cold , which in its life had a fine tail , just like the citizens wife . but now by 'r leave and worship too , for hark ye , here comes the venson put in paste by starky : which once set down , there at the little hole immediately in whips the parsons soul. he saw his stomacks anchor , and believ'd that now his belly should not be deceiv'd . how he leans ore the cheer toward his first mover ! while his hot zeal doth make his mouth run over . this pastie had brethren too , like to the mayors , three christmas , or minc'd pies , all very fair . methought they had this motto , though they flirt us , and preach us down , sub pondere crescit virtus . apple-tarts , fools , and strong cheese to keep down the steaming vapours from the parsons crown . canary too , and claret eke also , which made the tips of their ears and noses glow . up now they rise , and walk to their several chairs , when lo , the priest uncovers both his ears . most gracious shepherd of the brethren all , thou saidst that we should eat , before the fall ; then was the world but simple , for they knew not either how to bake , or how to brew . but happily we fell , and then the vine did noah plant , and all the priests drank wine ; truly we cannot but rejoyce to see thy gifts dispenc'd with such equality . to us th' ast given wide throats , and teeth to eat ; to the women , knowledge how to dresse our meat . make us devoutly constant in thy cup , and grant us strength when we shall cease to sup , to bear away thy creatures on our feet , and not be seen to tumble in the street . we are thy sheep , o let us feed , feed on , till we become as fat as any brawn . then let 's fall to , and eat up all the cheer , straight so be it he cryes , and calls for beer . now then , like scanderbeg he falls to work , and hews the pudding as he hew'd the turk . how he plough'd up the beef like forrest-land , and fum'd because the bones his wrath withstand . upon the mutton he fell not like a lamb , but rather like a wolf he tore the same . at first a sister helpt him , but this elfe sir , wearying her out , she cryes , pray help your self sir. upon the pastie though he fell anon , as if 't had been the walls of babylon . like a cathedral down he throwes that stuff , why , sisters , saith he , i am pepper-proof . then down he powres the claret , and down again , and would the french king were a puritan , he cryes : swills up the sack , and i 'le be sworn quoth he , spain's king is not the popes tenth horn . by this his tearing hunger doth abate , and on the second course they 'gan to prate . then quoth priscilla , oh my brother dear : truly y' are welcome to this homely chear , and therefore eat , good brother , eat your fill , alas for daniel , my heart aketh still . then quoth the priest , sister be of good heart ; but she reply'd good brother eat some tart. rebecca then a member of the ' lection began to talk of brotherly affection ; for this , said she , as i have heard the wise discourse , consisteth much in exercise ; yet i was foolish , and would oft resist , but you had more grace , brother , then to desist . streight he reply'd , there is a time for all things , there is a time for great things and for small things . there 's a time to eat , and drink , and reformation , a time to empty , and for procreation ; therefore dear sister let us take our time , there 's reason for 't , i never car'd for rhyme : then truly answer'd she , 't is a good motion , and i embrace it with a warm devotion . why you know brother you did never prove that i was ere ingratefull for your love ; but sometimes angels did attend your purse , at other times you know i did you nurse , with many a secret dish of lusty meat , and presently we went and did the feat . truly quoth dorcas then , i saw a vision , that we should have our foes in great derision . quoth martha straight , ( and then she shook the crums from off her apron white , and pickt her gums ) so i do hope , for so our brother said ; o what a heavenly piece of work he made ! but i am ign'rant , and my memory short , i shall forget , were i to be hang'd for 't . then quoth the priest , the cheer that here we see , is but an emblem of mortality . the oxe is strong , and glories in his strength , yet him the butcher knocks down , and at length we eate him up . a turkie's very gay , like wordly people clad in fine array ; yet on the spit it looks most piteous , and we devoure it , as the wormes eate us . then full of sawce and zeale up steps elnathan , [ this was his name now , once he had another , untill the ducking-pond made him a brother ] a deacon and a buffeter of sathan . truly , quoth he , i know a brother dear , would gladly pick the bones of what 's left here . nay he would gladly pick your pockets too of a small two pence , or a groat , or so , the sorry remnants of a broken shilling ; therefore i pray you friends be not unwilling . but as for me , 't is more than i do need , to be charitable both in word and deed ; for as to us , the holy scriptures say , the deacons must receive , the lay-men pay . why heathen folks that do in taverns stray , will never let their friends the reckning pay . and therefore pour your charity into the bason , brethren and sisters eke , your coats have lace on . why brethren in the lord , what need you care for six pence ? we 'll one hour enhance our ware . your six pence comes again , nay there comes more ; thus charity 's th' encreaser of your store . truly well spoke , then cry'd the master-feaster , since you say so , here , you shall have my tester : but for the women , they gave more liberally , for they were sure to whom they gave , and why : then did elnathan blink , for he knew well what he might give , and what he might conceal . but now the parson could no longer stay , 't is time to kisse , he cryes , and so away . at which the sisters , once th' alarum tak'n , made such a din as would have serv'd to wak'n a snoring brother , when he sleeps at church ; with bagg and baggage then they gan to march ; and ticled with the thoughts of their delight , one sister to the other bids good night . good night quoth dorcas to priscilla , she , good night dear sister dorcas unto thee . in these goodly good nights much time was spent , and was it not a holy complement ? at length in steps the parson , on his breast laying his hand , a happy night of rest reward thy labours sister : yet ere we part , feel in my lips the passion of my heart . to another straight he turn'd his face , and kist her , and then he cryes , all peace be with thee sister . to another in a godly tune he whines , dear sister from thy lip i le take my tines . with that he kist , and whispers in her eare , the time when it should be , and the place where . thus they all part , the parson followes close , for well the parson knoweth where he goes . this seem'd a golden time , the fall of sin , you 'd think the thousand years did now begin , when satan chain'd below should cease to roar , nor durst the wicked as they wont before come to the church for pastime , nor durst laugh to hear the non-plust doctor faigne a cough . the devil himself , alas ! now durst not stand within the switching of the sextons wand , for so a while the priests did him pursue , that he was fain to keep the sabboth too , lest being taken in the elders lure , he should have paid his crown unto the poor ; and lest he should like a deceiver come 'twixt the two sundays inter stitium , they stuft up lecturers with texts and straw , on working-dayes to keep the devil in awe . but strange to think , for all this solemn meeknesse , at length the devil appeared in his likenesse , while these deceits did but supply the wants of broken unthrifts , and of thread-bare saints . oh what will men not dare , if thus they dare be impudent to heaven , and play with prayer ! play with that fear , with that religious awe which keeps men free , and yet is mans great law : what can they but the worst of atheists be , who while they word it 'gainst impiety , affront the throne of god with their false deeds , alas , this wonder in the atheist breeds . are these the men that would the age reforme , that down with superstition cry , and swarme this painted glasse , that sculpture to deface , but worship pride , and avarice in their place . religion they bawle out ; yet know not what religion is , unlesse it be to prate . meeknesse they preach , but study to controule ; money they 'd have , when they cry out the soul. and angry , will not have our father said , 'cause it prayes not enough for daily bread . they meet in private , and cry persecution , when faction is their end , and state-confusion : these are the men that plague and over-run like goths and vandalls all religion : every mechanick either wanting stock or wit to keep his trade must have a flock : the spirit , cryes he , moveth me unto it , and what the spirit bids , must i not do it ? but having profited more than his flock by teaching , and stept into authority by preaching for a lay office , leaves the spirits motion and streight retreateth from his first devotion . but this he does in want , give him preferment , off goes his gown , god's call is no determent . vain foolish people , how are ye deceiv'd ? how many several sorts have ye receiv'd of things call'd truths , upon your backs lay'd on like saddles for themselves to ride upon ? they rid amain , and hell and satan drove , while every priest for his own profit strove . can they the age thus torture with their lyes , low'd bellowing to the world impieties , black as their coats , and such a silent fear lock up the lips of men , and charm the ear ? had that same holy israelite been dumb , that fatall day of old had never come to baals tribe , and thrice unhappy age while zeal and piety like mask'd in rage and vulgar ignorance . how we do wonder once hearing , that the heavens were fir'd to thunder against assailing gyants , surely men , men thought could not presume such violence then : but 't was no fable , or if then it were , behold a sort of bolder mortals here , those undermining shifts of knavish folly , using alike to god and men most holy ; infidels who now seem to have found out a suttler way to bring their ends about against the deity then op'nly to fight by smooth insinuation and by slight : they close with god , seem to obey his lawes , they cry alowd for him and for his cause . but while they do their strict injunctious preach , deny in actions what their words do teach . o what will men not dare , if thus they dare be impudent with heaven , and play with prayer ! yet if they can no better teach than thus , would they would onely teach themselves , not us : so while they still on empty out-sides dwell , they may perhaps be choakt with husk and shell ; while those , who can their follies well refute , by a true knowledge do obtain the fruit . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a54774-e140 ingredients that compound a cong●egation . maids beware of sleeping at church . hang it . robert wisdom's delight . practice of piety . hey-day ! iack-a-dandy . to be heard of men . to the tune of s. margarets chimes . behold the zeal of the people . the exposition . 1 vse . not like an anchor . babel battered . 2 vse . would he have been so content ? 3 vse . several reasons . description of antichrist . and hey then up go we , ☞ the doctrine of generation . for ministers may be cuckholds . vse of exhortation . motives 1. 4. 3. 12. hunger a great enemy to gospel duty . a crop-sick sister . a very great creature-comfort . a great cry , and a little . wooll . a great sign of grace . bill of fare . grace before meat much good may do you sir. christian forgiveness . no grace after meat . nothing beyond ingratitude . a man may love his brother , but not better than himself . christian liberty . nere a profane kiss among all these . true peace, or, a moderate discourse to compose the unsettled consciences and greatest differences in ecclesiastical affaires written long since by the no less famous then learned sir francis bacon ... bacon, francis, 1561-1626. 1662 approx. 53 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 25 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-01 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a28513 wing b339 estc r37050 16197425 ocm 16197425 105042 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a28513) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 105042) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1085:10) true peace, or, a moderate discourse to compose the unsettled consciences and greatest differences in ecclesiastical affaires written long since by the no less famous then learned sir francis bacon ... bacon, francis, 1561-1626. 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in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -apologetic works. puritans -relations -church of england. 2002-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2002-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2002-06 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2002-06 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2002-07 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion true peace : or a moderate discourse to compose the unsettled consciences , and greatest differences in ecclesiastical affaires . written long since by the no less famous then learned sir francis bacon lord vernlam , viscount st. alban london , printed for 〈…〉 to the reader . christian reader , either in esteem to the learned author , or in love to thy self read this small discourse following , which shews the authors tranquil care to compose the minds of those that made it their business to make rents in our apostolical episcopacy , not fearing the breach of the third , fifth , and sixth commandments ; but causing the sacred name of god to be vainly used in their idle controversies , disobeying our superiors , and causing an ultimation in murder ; but the following discourse i doubt not but will give you good satisfaction , vale . it is but ignorance , if any man finde it strange that the state of religon ( especially in the dayes of peace ) should be exercised and troubled with controversies : for as it is the condition of the church militant to be ever under trialls , so it commeth to passe that when the fiery triall of persecution ceaseth , there succeedeth another triall , which as it were by contrary blastes of doctrine , doth sift and winow mens faith , and proveth them whether they know god aright , even as the other of afflictions discovereth whether they love him better then the world . accordingly was it foretold by christ , saying : that in the latter times it should bee said , loe here , loe there is christ ; which is to be understood , not as if the very person of christ should bee assumed and counterfeited , but his authority and preheminence ( which ought to bee truth it selfe ) that should bee chalenged and pretended . thus have we read and seene to bee fulfilled that which followeth : ecce in deserto , ecce in penetratio : while some have sought the truth in the conventicles and conciliables of heretickes and sectaries : others in the externe face and representation of the church , and both sorts been seduced . were it th●n that the controversies of the church of england were such as did divide the unity of the spirit , and not such as doe unswaddle her of her bands the bands of peace ) yet could it be no occasion for any pretended catholicke to judge us , or for any irreligious person to despise us : or if it be , it shall but happen to us all as it hath used to doe ; to them to bee hardened , and to us to endure the good pleasure of god. but now that our contentions are such , as we need not so much that generall canon and sentence of christ : erratis nescientes scripturas , &c. as wee need the admonition of saint iames : let every man bee swift to heare , slow to speake , slow to wrath : and that the wound is no way dangerous , except wee poyson it with our owne remedies . as the former sort of men have lesse reason to make themselves musicke in our cord : so i have good hope that nothing shall displease our selves which shall bee sincerely and modestly propounded for the appeasing of these dissentions . for if any shall bee offended at this voyce : vos estis fratres , yee are brethren , why strive yee ? hee shall give great presumption against himselfe , that hee is the party that doth his brother wrong . the controversies themselves i will not enter into , as judging that disease requireth rather rest then any other cure . thus much we all know and confesse , that they bee not of the highest nature : for they are not touching the high mysteries of faith : such as detained the churches after their first peace for many yeares , what time the heretickes moved curious questions , and made strange anatomies of the nature and person of christ ; and the catholicke fathers were compelled to follow them with all subtillity of disputations and determinations , to exclude them from their evasions , and to take them in their owne labyrinths ; so as it is rightly said : illis temporibus ingeniosa res fuit esse christianum : in those dayes it was an ingenious and subtile matter to bee a christian : neither are they concerning the great parts of the worship of god ; of which it is true , that non servatur unitas in credendo , nisieadem adsit in colendo : there will bee kept no unity in beleeving , except it bee intire in worshipping : such as were the controversies in the east and west churches touching images , and such as are many of those which are betweene the church of rome and us , as about the adoration of the sacrament , and the like . but wee contend about ceremonies , and things indifferent , about the externe policie and government of the church : in which kinde , if wee would but remember , that the ancient and true bonds of unity , are one faith , one baptisme , and not one ceremonie , one policie . if wee would observe the league among christians , that is penned by our saviour christ ( hee that is not against us , is with us ) if wee could but comprehend that saying , differentia rituum commendat unitatem doctrinae : and that , habet religio quae sunt aeternitatis , habet quae sunt temporis : religion hath parts which belong to eternity , and parts which belong to time . and if wee did but know the vertue of silence , and slownesse to speake , commended by saint iames , our controversies would ( of themselves ) close up and grow together . but most especially , if we would leave the overweening and turbulent humours of these times , and renue the blessed proceedings of the apostles and fathers of the primitive church ; which was in the like and greater cases , not to enter into assertions and positions , but to deliver counsels and advices , we should need no other remedy at all . si eadem con●ulis frater , qua affirmas , debetur consulenti reverentia , cum non debetur ●ides affirmanti : brother , if that which you set downe by way of assertion , you would deliver by way of advice , there were reverence due to your counsell , where credit is not due to your affirmation . saint paul was content to speake thus : ego , non dominus ; i , and not the lord : & secundum consilium meum , according to my counsell . but now men do so lightly say , not i , but the lord ; yea , and binde it with heavie denunciations of his judgements , to terrifie the simple , which have not sufficiently understood out of salomon , that the causlesse curse shall not come : therefore seeing the accidents are they which breed the perill , and not the things themselves in their owne nature , it is meet the remedies bee applied unto them by opening what it is on either part that keepeth the wound greene , and formaliseth both sides to a further opposition , and worketh an indisposition in mens mindes to be reunited ; wherein no accusation is pretended . but i finde in reason , that it is best built by repetition of wrongs , and in example that the speeches which have been by the wisest men , de concordia ordinum , have not abstained from reducing to memory the extremities used on both parts . so as it is true which was said , qui paccem tractat non repetitis conditionis : dissidit , is magis animos dulcedine pacis fallit quam aequitate componit . and first of all , it is more then time that an end were made of this unmodest and deformed kinde of writing lately entertained , whereby matters of religion are handled in the stile of the stage . indeed bitter and earnest writing is not hastily to be condemned : for men cannot contend coldly and without affection about things they hold deare and pretious . a politicke man may write from his braine without touch or sense of his heart , as in a speculation that pertaineth not unto him ; but a feeling christian will expresse in his words a character either of zeale or love : the latter of which as i would wish rather to be embraced , as being more fit for the times , yet is the former warranted also by great examples . but to leave all reverend and religious compassions toward evils , or indignation toward faults , to turne religion into a comedy or satyr , to search and rip up wounds with a laughing countenance , to in●ermix scripture and scurrilility sometime in one sentence , is a thing farre from the devout reverence of a christian , and scant beseeming the honest regard of a sober man. non est major confusio quam serii & joci : there is no greater confusion then the confounding of jest and earnest . the majestie of religion , and the contempt and deformity of things ridiculous , are things as distant as things may be . two principall causes have i ever knowne of atheisme , curious controversies and prophane scoffing . now that these two are joyned in one , no doubt that sect will make no small progression . and here i do much esteem the wisedome and religion of that bishop , which replied to the first pamphlet of this kinde , who remembred that a foole was to be answered , but not by becomming like unto him , and considered the matter hee handled , and not the person with whom he dealt . iob speaking of the majesty and gravity of a iudge in himselfe , saith : if i did smile , they beleeved me not ; as if he should have said : if i diverted or glanced unto conceit of mirth , yet mens mindes were so possessed with a reverence of the action in hand , as they could not receive it . much more ought this to be amongst bishops and divines disputing about holy things : and therefore as much doe i mislike of him , who as it seemed , pleased himself with it , as no mean policie . that these men are to be dealt withall at their own weapons , and pledged in their owne cup. this ( no doubt ) seemed to him as profound , as when the cardinall counselled iulius the second to encounter the councell of nice with the councell of lateran ; or as lawfull a chalenge as m. iewell made to confute the pretended catholicks by the fathers . but these things will not excuse the imitation of evill in another : it should contrariwise be with us as caesar said : nil malo quam eos similes cum sui , & me mei . but now , dum de bonis contendimus , in malis consentimus ; while we differ in good things , we resemble in evill . surely if i were asked of these men , who were the more to bee blamed , i should perhaps remember the proverbe , that the second blow maketh the fray ; and the saying of an obscure fellow , qui replicat multiplicat , he that replieth multiplieth . but i would determine the question with this stutterer : alter principium malo dedit , alter modum abstulit : by the one means we have a beginning , by the other we shall have none end . and truely , as i doe marvell that some of those preachers which do call for reformatiō ( whom i am farre from wronging , so farre as to joyne them with these scoffers ) doe not publish some declaration , whereby they may satisfie the world , that they dislike , their cause should be so sollicited : so i hope assuredly , that my lords of the cleargy have no intelligence with these other libellers ; but do altogether disallow that their dealing should be thus defended : for though i observe in him many glozes , whereby the man would insinuate himselfe into their favour ; yet i finde too ordinary , that many pressing & fawning persons , do misconjecture of the humours of men in authority , and many times veneri immolant suem , they seeke to gratifie them with that they most dislike . for i have great reason to satisfie my selfe touching the judgement of my lords the bishops in this matter , by that which was written by one of them , whom i mentioned before with honour . neverthelesse , i note , there is not an indifferent hand carried toward these pamphlets as they deserve . for the one sort flieth in darknesse , and the other is uttered openly . wherein i might advise that side out of a wise writer , who hath set it downe , that punitis ingeniis gliscit authoritas ; and indeed we ever see it falleth our , that the forbidden writing is thought to be a certaine sparke of truth that flieth up in the faces of them that seeke to choke and tread it out ; whereas a booke authorized , is thought to bee but temporis voces , the language of the time . but in plaine truth i doe finde to my understanding , these pamphlets as meet to be suppressed as the others . first , as the former doe seeke to deface the government of the church in the persons of the bishops and prelates : so the other doth lead into contempt the exercise of religion in the persons of sundry preachers ; so as it disgraceth the higher matter , though in the meaner person . next , i finde certaine indiscreet and dangerous amplifications , as if the civill government it selfe of this estate , had neere lost the force of its sinewes , and were ready to enter into some convulsion , all things being full of faction and disorder ; which is as unwisely acknowledged as untruly affirmed . i know his meaning is to inforce this unreverent and violent impugning of the government of the bishops , to bee a suspected fore-runner of a more generall-contempt . and i grant there is a sympathy between both the estates : but no such matter in the civill policie as deserveth a taxation so dishonourable . to conclude this point : as it were to bee wished that these writings had been abortive , and never seene the sunne ; so the next is , that seeing they be common abroad , that they bee censured of all that have understanding and conscience , as the untemperate extravagants of some light person : yea further , they may beware ( except they meane to deprive themselves of all sense of religion , and to pave their owne hearts , and to make them as the high way ) how they bee conversant in them , and much more how they delight themselves in that veine , but rather to turn their laughing into blushing , and to bee amazed as at a short madnesse , that they have in matters of religion , taken their disport and solace . but this perchance is one of those faults which will bee soonest acknowledged , though i perceive neverthelesse , there wants not some which seeke to blanch and excuse it . but to descend to a more narrow view and consideration of the accidents and circumstances of these controversies , wherein either part deserveth blame and imputation ; i finde generally in causes of church-controversies , that men do offend in some or all of these five points : 1. the first , the giving of occasion unto controversies , and also the inconsiderate and ungrounded taking of the occasion . 2. the next is the extending and multiplying of controversies to a more generall opposition and contradiction then appeareth at the first propounding of them , when mens judgements are least partiall . 3. the third is the passionate and unbrotherly practises and proceedings on both parts towards the persons each of others for their discredit and suppression . 4. the fourth , is the courses holden and and entertained on either side , for the drawing of the practizants to a more streight union within themselves , which ever importeth a further destruction of the intire body . 5. the last , is the undue and inconvenient propounding , publishing , and debating of the controversies . in which point the most palpable error hath been already spoken of , as that which through the strangenesse and freshnesse of the abuse first offereth it selfe to the conceits of all men . now concerning the occasion of controversies , it cannot be denied but that the imperfection in the conversation and government of those which have chiefe place in the church , have ever been principall causes and motives of schismes and divisions : for whilest the bishops and governours of the church continue full of knowledge and good workes , whilest they feed their flock indeed , while they deale with the secular estates in all liberty and resolution , according to the majesty of their calling , and the pretious care of soules imposed upon them ; so long the church is situate , as it were , upon an hill , no man maketh question of it , or seekes to depart from it : but when these vertues in the fathers and elders of the church have lost their light , and that they wax wordly , lovers of themselves , and pleasers of men : then men begin to grope for the church as in the darke , they bee in doubt whether they bee the successors of the apostles , or of the pharisees ; yea , howsoever they sit in moses chaire , yet they can never speake , tanquam authoritatem habentes , as having authority , because they lost their reputation in the consciences of men , by declining their steppes from the way which they trace out to others ; so as men have need continually sounding in their eares , this saying , nolite exire , goe not out , so ready are they to depart from the church upon every voyce : and therefore it is truely noted by one who writeth as a naturall man , that the hypocrisie of friers did for a great time , maintaine and beare out the irreligion of bishops and prelates . for this is that double policie of the spiritual enemy , either by counterfeit holinesse of life to authorize and establish errors , or by the corruption of manners to discredit and call into question truth and lawfull things . this concerneth my lords the bishops , unto whom i am witnesse to my selfe , that i stand affected as i ought : no contradiction hath supplanted in mee the reverence i owe to their calling : neither hath any detraction or calumnie embased my opinion of their persons ; i know some of them , whose names are most pierced with these accusations , to be men of great vertues , although indisposition of the time , and the want of correspondence many wayes , is enough to frustrate the best indevours in the church . and for the rest generally , i can condemne none , i am no judge of them that belong to so high a master , neither have i two witnesses : and i know it is truely said of fame , pariter facta atque infecta canebat . their taxations arise not all from one coast : they have indifferent enemies , and ready to invent slander , more ready to amplifie , and most ready to believe it , & magnes mendacii credulitas , credulity is the allurement of lies . but if any be who have against the supreame bishops not a few things , but many : if any have lost his first love , if any bee neither hot nor cold , if any have stumbled to folly at the threshold , in such sort that he cannot sit well that entred ill ; it is time they returne whence they are fallen , and confirme the things which remaine . great is the weight of this fault , et eorum causa abhorrebant homines à sacrificiis domini : and for their cause did men abhor the worship of god. but howsoever it be , that those have sought to defame them , & cast contempt upon them , are not to beexcused . it is the precept of salomon , that the rulers be not reproched , no not in thought , but that wee draw our conceit into a modest interpretation of their doings . the holy angell would give no sentence of blasphemy against the common slanderer , but sayd , increpet te dominus , the lord rebuke thee . the apostle saint paul , thought against him that did polute sacred justice with tyrannous violence , hee did justly denounce the judgement of god in saying , percuciet te dominus , the lord shall strike thee , yet in saying , paries dealbate , he thought he had gone too farre , and retracted it : whereupon a learned father sayd : ipsum , quam vis inane , nomen & umbram sacerdotis cogitans expavit . the ancient councels and synods , as it is noted by the ecclesiasticall story , when they deprived any bishop , never recorded the offence , but buried it in perpetuall silence . onely cham purchased his fathers curse with revealing his fathers disgrace : and yet a much greater fault is it , to ascend from the person to the calling , and to draw that in question . many good fathers rigorously complained of the unworthinesse of bishops , as if it did presently forfeit & cease their office . one sayth : sacerdotes nominamur & non sumus , we are called priests , and are not . another sayth : nisi bonum opus amplectaris episcopus esse non potes , except thou undertake the good worke , thou canst not be a bishop ; yet they meant nothing lesse then to move doubt of their calling or ordination . the second occasion of cōtroversies , is , the nature & humor of some men . the church never wanteth a kinde of persons that love the salutation of rabbi , not in ceremony or complement , but in an inward authority which they seeke over mens mindes , in drawing them to depend upon their opinion , and so seeke knowledge at their lippes : these men are the true successours of diotrephes , the lovers of preheminence , and not lord bishops ; such spirits doe light upon another sort of natures which doe adhere to these men , quorum gloria in obsequio , stiffe fellowes , and such as zeale marvellously for those whom they have chosen to bee their masters . this latter sort of men for the most part , are men of young yeares , and superficiall understanding , carried away with partiall respect of persons , or with the enticing appearance of godly names and pretences . pauci res ipsas sequuntur , plures nomina rerum ; plurima nomina magistrorum : few follow the things themselves , more the names of the things , most the names of their masters . about these general affections are wretched accidentall and private emulations and discontentments . all which breake forth together into contentions , such as either violate truth , sobriety , or peace . these generalities apply themselves . the vniversities are the seates and continent of this disease , whence it hath been , and is derived into other parts of the realme . there some will be no longer è numero , of the number : there some others side themselves before they know the right hand from the left . so as it is truely said transeunt ab ignorantia ad prejudicium : they leap from ignorance to a prejudicate opinion , and never take a good judgement in their way . but as it is wel noted : inter juvenile judicium , & senile prejudicium omnis veritas corrumpitur : when men are indifferent and not partiall , then their judgement is weake and unripe , through want of yeares ; and when it groweth to strength , and ripenesse , by that time it is forestalled with such a number of prejudicate opinions , as it is made unprofitable , so as between these two all truth is corrupted ; while the honourable names of sincerity , and reformation , and discipline , are put in the forward , so as contentious and evill zeales cannot be touched , except these holy thinges are first thought to be violated . but howsoever they shall inferre the solicitation for the peace of the church : not to proceed from carnall sinnes : yet will i ever conclude with the apostle paul : cum sit inter vos zelus & contentio , nonne carnales estis ? while there is amongst you zeale and contention , are ye not carnall ? and howsoever they esteem the compounding of controversies , to favour of mens wisedome and humane policie , i thinke themselves led with the wisedome which is from above ; yet i say with saint iames , non est ista sapientia de sursum descendens , sed terrena , animalis , diabolica . ibi zelus & contentio , ibi inconstantia & omne opus provum . of this inconstancy it is said by a learned father : procedere non ad perfectionem , sed ad permutationem . they seeke to goe forward still , not to perfection , but to change . the third occasion of controversies , i observe to be an extreame and unlimited detestation of some former heresie or corruption of the church acknowledged & convicted . this was the cause that produced the heresie of arrius , grounded chiefly upon detestation of gentilisme ; lest the christians should seeme by assertion of the coequall divinity of our saviour christ to approach to the acknowledgement of more gods then one . the detestation of arrius heresie produced that of sabellius , who holding for execrable the dissimilitude which arrius pretended in the trinity , fled so farre from him , that he fell into the other extreame , to deny the distinction of persons , and to say they were but onely names of severall offices and dispensations ; yea , most of the heresies of the church have sprung up of this root , while men have made it their scale to measure the bounds of their religion , taking it by the farthest distance from the errour last condemned . these be posthumi haeresium filii , heresies that arise of the ashes of other heresies that are extinct and amortised . this manner of apprehension doth in some degree possesse many of our time : they thinke it the true touch-stone to try what is good and holy , by measuring what is more and lesse opposite to the institutions of the church of rome , be it ceremony , be it policie or government ; yea be it other institution of greater weight , that is ever most perfect which is removed most degrees from that church ; and that is ever polluted and blemished which participateth in any appearance with it : this is a subtile and dangerous conceit for men to entertaine , apt to delude themselves , more apt to delude the people , and most apt of all to calumniate their adversaries . this surely , but that a notorious condemnation of that position was laid before our eyes , had long since brought us to the rebaptizing of children baptized according to the pretended catholicke religion . for i see that which is a matter of much like reason , which is the reordaining of priests , is a matter very resolutely maintained . it is very meet that men beware how they be abused by this opinion , and that they know it is a consideration of much greater wisedome to be well advised : whether in the generall demolition of the institutions of the church of rome , there were not ( as mens actions are unperfect ) some good purged with the bad , rather then to purge the church as they pretend , every day anew , which is the way to make a wound in her bowels , as it is already begun . the fourth and last occasion of these controversies ( a thing which did also trouble the church in former time ) is the partiall affectation and imitation of forraigne churches : for many of our men , during the time of persecution , and since , having been conversant in churches abroad , and received a great impression of the government there ordained , have violently sought to intrude the same upon our church . but i answer , conveniamus in eo quod convenit non in eo quod receptum est : let us agree in this with every church , to doe that which is convenient for the estate of it selfe , and not in particular customes . although their churches had received the better forme , yet many times it is to be sought . non quid optimum , sed è bonis quid proximum : not what is best , but of good things what is next and readiest to be had . our church is not now to place , it is setled and established . it may be in civill states a republique is better then a kingdome : yet god forbid that lawfull kingdomes should be tied to inovate and make alterations : qui mala introducit , voluntatem dei oppugnat revelatam in verbo : qui nova introducit , voluntatem dei oppugnat revelatam in rebus : he that bringeth in ill customes , resisteth the will of god revealed in his word : he that bringeth in new things , resisteth the will of god revealed in the things themselves . consule providentiam dei cum verbo dei : take counsaile of the providence of god , as well as of his word . neither yet doe i admit that their forme ( although it were possible and convenient ) is better then ours , if some abuses were taken away . the party and equality , is a thing of wonderfull great confusion , and so is an ordinary government by synods , which do necessarily ensue upon the other . it is hard in all causes , especially in matters of religion , when voyces shall bee numbred and not weighed . equidem ( saith a wise father ) ut verè quod res est scribam , prorsus decrevifugere omnem conventum episcoporū : nullius enim consilii bonum exitum unquā vidi : consilia enim non minuunt mala , sed augent potius . to say the truth , i am utterly determined never to come to any councell of bishops : for i never yet saw good end of any councell : for councels abate not ill things , but rather increase them : which is not so much to bee understood of generall councels , as for synods gathered for the ordinary government of the church , as for deprivation of bishops , or such like cases , which mischiefe hath taught us the use of archbishops and patriarkes , and primates , as the abuse of them since hath caused men to mislike them . but it will bee said , looke to the fruits of the churches abroad and ours . to which i say , i beseech the lord to multiply his blessings & graces upon these an hundred fold . but yet it is not good we fall a numbring them . it may bee our peace hath made us wanton . it may be also ( though i would be loath to derogate from the honor of those churches , were it not to remove scandals ) that their fruits are as torches in the darke , which appeare greatest a farre off . i know they may have some more strict order for the repressing of sundry excesses . but when i consider of the censures of some persons , as well upon particular men as upon churches , i think of the saying of a platonist , who saith : certe vitia irascibilis partis animae sunt gradu praviora quam concupiscibilis tametsi occultiora . a matter that appeared well by the ancient contentions of bishops : god grant we may contend with other churches as the vine with the olive , which of us beareth best fruits : and not as the brier with the thistle , which of us is most unprofitable . and thus much touching the occasion of controversies . now briefly to set down the growth and progression of these controversies , whereby will be verified the wise counsell of salomon , that the course of contention is to bee stopped at the first , being else as the waters , which if they get a breach , will hardly ever be recovered . it may be remembred , how that on their part who call for reformation , was first propounded some dislike of certaine ceremonies , supposed to bee supersticious : some complained of dumb ministers , who possessed rich benefices : some made invectives against the idle and monasticall continuance within the vniversities , by those who had livings to be resident upon , and such like causes . thence they went on to condemne the government of bishops , as an hierarchy remaining to us of the corruptions of the romane church , and to except to sundry institutions , as not sufficiently delivered from the pollutions of former times . and lastly , they are advanced to define of an onely and perpetuall forme of policie in the church , which ( without consideration of the possibility , or foresight of perill , or perturbation of the church & state ) must be erected and planted by the magistrate . here they stay . others not able to keep footing on so steep a ground , descend further , that the same must bee entred into , and accepted by the people at their perill , without attending the establishment of authoritie ; and so in the mean time they refuse to communicate with us , reputing us to have no church . this hath been the progression of that side , i meane of the generality ; for i know that some persons ( being of the nature not onely to love extremities , but to fall to them without degrees ) were at the highest streame at the first : the other part that maintaineth the present government of the church , hath not kept one ten or neither . first , those ceremonies which they pretended to be corrupt , they maintained to bee things indifferent , and opposed the examples of the good times of the church , to that chalenge that was made unto them , because they were used in the latter superstitious times : then were they also content mildly to acknowledge many imperfections in the church , as tares came up amongst the corne , which were not as yet according to the wisedome of our saviour christ , to be without strife pulled up , lest it might spoile and supplant the good corn , but to grow on together till the harvest . after this they grew to a more absolute defence & maintenance of orders of the church : and stifly to hold that nothing was to be innovated , partly because it needed not , and partly because it would make a breach upon the rest . thence ( exasperate through contention ) they are fallen to a direct condemnation of the contrary part , as of a sect : yea and some indiscreet persons have been bold in open preaching to use dishonourable and derogative speech , and censure of the churches abroad : and that so farre , as that some of our men ( as i have heard ) ordained in forreigne parts have beene pronounced to be no lawfull ministers . thus we see the beginnings were modest , but the extreames violent : so as there is now almost as great a distance of either part from it selfe , as was at the first of one from the other . and surely ( though my meaning and scope be not ( as i said before ) to enter into the controversies themselves ) yet i doe admonish the maintainers of the above named discipline , to weigh and consider seriously , and attentively , how neer they are unto those with whom i know they will not join . it is hard to say that the discipline which they say we want , is one of the essentiall parts of the worship of god : and not to affirme , that the people upon perill of their salvation without staying for the magistrate are to gather themselves unto it . i demand if a civill state should receive the preaching and baptisme , and exclude the sacrament of the supper : were not men bound upon danger of their soules , to draw themselves to congregations , where they might celebrate that ministery , and not content themselves with that part of worship which the magistrate hath authorised ? this i speake not to draw them into mislike of others , but into a more deep consideration of themselves . fortasse non redeunt , quia progressuum suum non intelligunt , againe i say , to my lords the bishops that it is heard for them to avo●d blame in the opinion of an indifferent person , in standing so precisely , in altering nothing . leges novis legibus non recreate descunt , lawes being not refreshed with new lawes , wax sowre . qui mala non permutat , in bonis non perseverat , without change of ill , a man can not continue the good : to take away abuses , supplanteth not good orders , but establishes them . morosa moris retentio res turbulenta aque ac novitas est , a contentious retaining of custome is a turbulent thing as well as innovation . a good husbandman is ever pruning and stirring in his vineyard , or field ; not unreasonable indeed , nor unskilfully , for he lightly ever findeth somewhat to do . we have heard of no offers of the bishops of bils in parliament , which no doubt proceeding from them to whom it properly appertaineth , would have every where received acceptation , their own constitutions , and orders have reformed little . is nothing amisse ? can any man defend the use of excommunication , as a bare processe to lackey up and downe , for duties and for fees , it being the greatest judgement next unto that generall judgement at the last day ? is there no means to nurse and traine up ministers ? ( for the yeld of the vniversities will not serve , though they were never so well governed ) to traine them i say not to preach ( for that every man adventureth confidently to doe ) but to preach soundly and handle the scriptures with wisedome and judgement . i know prophecying was subject to great abuses ; and would be more abused now , because the lease of persecution is encreased . but i say , the onely reason of the abuse was , because there were admitted to it a popular auditory , and it was conteined with a private conference of ministers . other thinges might be spoken of . i pray god inspire the bishops , with a fervent love , and care of the people , and that they may not so much urge thinges in controversie , which all men confesse to bee gracious , and good . and thus much for the second part . now as to the third part of unbrotherly proceeding on either part , it is directly contrary to my purpose to amplifie wrongs , it is enough to note and number them : which i doe also to move compassion and remorse on the offending side , and not to animate chalenges and complaints on the other . and this point ( as reason is ) doth chiefly touch that side which doe most : injuriae potentiorum sunt , injuries come from them that have the upper hand . the wrongs of them that are oppressed , of the government of the church towards the other , may hardly bee dissembled or excused : they have charged them as though they denied to pay tribute to caesar , and withdraw from the civill magistrate their obedience , which they ever performed and taught : they have sorted and coupled them with the family of love , whose heresies they have laboured to descry and confute : they have been swift of credit to receive accusations against them from those that have quarrelled with them . but for speaking against sin and vice , their examinations and inquisitions have been streight , swearing them to blanks & generalities ( not included within the compasse of matter certaine , which the party that taketh the oath is able to comprehend ) which is a thing captious and strainable . their urging of subscription to their owne articles , is but lacescere & irritare morbos ecelesiae , which otherwise would spend and crush themselves , non consensum quaerit , sed dissidium auget , qui quod factis praestatur , verbis exigit : hee seeketh not union but division , which exacteth inwardly that , which men are content to yeeld in outward action . and it is true , there are some , which ( as i am perswaded ) will not easily offend by inconformity , who notwithstanding make some conscience to subscribe . for they know this note of inconstancie & defection from that which they have long held , shall disable that good which otherwise they would do . for such is the weaknesse of many , that they thinke their ministeries should thereby be discredited . as for their easie silencing of them , in such great scarcity of preachers , is to punish the people and not them . ought they not ( i meane the bishops ) to keep one eye open to looke upon the good that those men do ; not to fix them both upon the hurt that they suppose commeth by them . indeed such as are intemperate and incorrigible god forbid they should be permitted to teach . but shall every inconsiderate word , sometimes captiously wa●ched , and for the most part hardly inforced , be as it were a forfeiture of their voice & gift in teaching ? as for particular molestatiōs , i take no pleasure to recite thē . if a minister shal be troubled for saying in baptisme , do you believe ? or , dost thou believe ? if another shal be troubled for praying for her majesty without addition of her stiles , whereas the very form of prayer in the book of common prayer hath ( thy servant elizabeth ) and no more . if a third shall be accused upon these words uttered touching the controversies , tollatur lex & fiat certamen , whereby was meant , that the prejudice of the law removed , other reasons should be equally cōpared of calling for mutinie and sedition : as if he had said , away with the law , and try it out by force . if these and other like particulars be true , which i have but by rumour , and cannot affirme , it is to bee lamented that they should labour amongst us with so little comfort . i know restrained government is better then remisse . and i am of his opinion that said : better it is to live where nothing is lawfull , then where all things are lawfull : i dislike that lawes bee contemned , or disturbers unpunished . but lawes are compared to the grape , which being too much pressed , yeeldeth an hard and unwholesome wine . of these things i may say , iram viri non operatur justitiam dei : the wrath of man worketh not the righteousnesse of god. as for the injuries on the other part , they are , ictus vermium , as it were headlesse arrowes , they are fity and eager invectives : and in some fond men , uncivill and unreverent behaviour towards their persons . this last invention also which exposeth them to derision and obloquie by libels , chargeth ( as i am perswaded ) the whole side ; neither doth that other , which is yet more odious , practised by the most ●or● of thē , which is calling in as it were to their aid , certain mercenary bands , which impugned bishops & other ecclesiasticall dignities , to have the spoile of their endowments and livings . of this i cannot speake too hardly : it is an intelligence between incendiaries and robbers , the one to rob or fire the house , the other to rifle it . and thus much touching the third part . the fourth part wholly pertaineth to them which repugne the present ecclesiasticall government , who although they have not cut themselves from the body and communion of the church : yet they effect certaine cognisants & differences , wherein they seek to correspond amongst themselves , and to differ from other : and it is truly said , tam sunt mores schismatici , quam dogmata schismatica : there be as well schismaticall factions as opinions . first , they have impropered to themselves the names of zealous , syncere , & reformed , as if all other were cold , minglers of holy things , and prophane , and friends of abuses . yea to be a man endued with great vertues , and fruitfull in good workes , yet if he concurre not fully with them , they terme ( inderogation ) a civill and morall man , and compare him to socrates or some heathen phylosopher : whereas the wisedome of the scripture teacheth us contrariwise to denominate him religious according to the workes of the second table : because they of the first are often counterfeited and practised in hypocrisie . so saith saint iohn , that a man doth mainly boast of loving god whom he hath not seen , if he loveth not his neighbour whom he hath seen . and saint iames saith , this is true religion to visit the fatherlesse and widow ; and so that which is but phylosophicall with them , is in the phrase of the apostle , true religion and christianity . as in affection they chalenge to themselves the said vertues of zeale , and the rest , so in knowledge they attribute to themselves light , and perfection . they say the church of england in king edwards time , and the beginning of her majesties , was but in the cradle : and that the bishops of those daies did somewhat for day-breake , but the maturity and fulnesse of light proceeded from themselves . so sabinus bishop of heraclea of macedonia , said , that the fathers in the councell of nice were but infants , and ignorant men : that the church was not so to persist in their decrees , as to refuse that farther ripnesse of knowledge which the time had revealed . and as they censure vertuous men by the names of civill and moral , so doe they censure men truely , and godly-wise who see the vanity of their assertion ) by the names of politique , saying that their wisedome is but carnall , and favouring of mans braine . so likewise if a preacher preach with care and meditation ( i speake not of the vaine scholasticall forme and manner of preaching ) but soundly indeed , ordering the matter he handleth distinctly , and draweth it downe from authorising of it by strong proofes and warrents : they censure it as a forme of preaching , not becoming the simplicity of the gospel , and referre it to the reprehension of saint paul speaking of the intising speech of mans wisedome . now for their owne manner of preaching , what is it ? surely they exhort well , and worke compuction of minde , and bring men vell to the question , viri fratres quid age● us ? but that is not enough , except they resolve this question . they handle matters of controversies weakly and obiter , and as before a people that will accept of any thing in doctrine or manners : there is little but generality and repetition . they move the bread of life , and tosse it up and downe , they breake it not : they draw not their directions downe ad casus conscientiae , that a man may be warranted in his particular actions whether they be lawfull or not ; neither indeed are they able to doe it , what through want of grounded knowledge , what through want of study and time . it is an easie thing to call for observation of the sabbath day , and to speake against unlawfull gaine : but what actions and workes may be done upon the sabbath day , and in what cases ; and what courses of gaine are lawfull , and what not : to set this downe , and to cleare so the whole matter with good distinctions and decisions , is a matter of great knowledge and labour , and asketh much meditation and conversation in the scriptures and other helpes which god hath provided & preserved for instruction . they carry not equall hand in teaching the people their lawfull liberties as well as their restraines and prohibitions . but they thinke a man cannot goe too farre in keeping a commandement ; they forget that there are sinnes on the right hand as well as on the left , and that the sword is double edged , and cutteth on both sides , as well the superstitious observances , as the profane transgressions . who doubteth but it is as unlawfull to shut where god hath opened , as to open where god hath shut ? to binde where god hath loosed , and to loose where god hath bound ? amongst men it is as ill taken to turne backe favours , as to disobey commandements . in this kinde of zeale ( for example ) they have pronounced generally and without difference all untruth is unlawfull , notwithstanding that the midwives have been reported to have been blessed in their excuse , and rahab is said by faith to have concealed the spies . farther , i heard some sermons of mortification , which ( i think ) with very good meaning they have preached out of their owne experience and exercise : and things in private counsell not unmeet , but surely no sound conceits : much like to parsons his resolutions , or not so good , rather apt to breed in men weak opinions , and perplexed despaires , then filiall and true repentance which is sought . another point of great inconvenience and perill , is to intice the people to heare controversies , and all manner of doctrine : they say no part of the counsell of god is to bee suppressed , nor the people defrauded . so as the difference which the apostle maketh between milke and strong meats , is confounded ; and his precept that the weake bee not admitted to questions & controversies , taketh no place . but most of all it is to be suspected as a seed of further inconvenience for manner of handling the scriptures : for while they seek expresse scripture for every thing ; and that they have in a manner deprived themselves and the church of a speciall helpe , and support by embracing the authority of fathers , they resort to naked examples , conceited inferences and forced allusions , such as doe bring ruine to all certainty of religion . another extremity is that excessive magnifying of that , which though it be a principall and holy institution , yet hath limites as all things else have . we see ( in a manner ) wheresoever they find in the scriptures the word spoken of , they expound it of preaching . they have made it almost of the essence of the sacrament of the lords supper to have a sermon precedent . they have ( in manner ) annihilated liturgies and formes of divine service . as for the life of the good monkes and eremites of the primitive church , i know they will condemne a man as halfe a papist , if he should maintaine them as other , then prophane , because they heard no preaching . in the meane time , what preaching is , and who may be said to preach , they make no question . but as farre as i see every man that speaketh in chaire is counted a preacher . but i am assured , that not a few that call wholly for a preaching ministerie , deserve to be of the first themselves , that should be expelled . these and some other errors and misproceedings , they doe fortifie and increase by being so greatly addicted to their opinions , and impatient to heare contradiction or argument . yea i know some of them , that would thinke it a tempting of god to heare or read what may be said against them . as if there could be a quod bonum è tenete , without an omne probate going before . this may suffice to offer unto themselves a view and consideration whether they do well or no , & to correct & asswage the partiallity of their followers and dependents . for as for any man that shall hereby enter into a contempt of their ministery , it is but his owne hardnesse of heart . i know the word of exhortation doth chiefly rest upon these men , and they have zeale and hate of sinne . but againe let them take heed that it be not true which one of their adversaries saith against them , that they have but two small wants , knowledge , and love . and so i conclude the fourth part . the last point teaching the due publishing , and debating of these controversies , needeth no long speech : this strange abuse of antiques and pasquils hath been touched before . so likewise i repent not that which i said before , that a character of love is more proper for debates of this nature , then that of zeale . as for all direct and direct glaunces or levels of mens persons , they were ever in these cases disallowed . lastly , whatsoever is pretended , the people is no meet judge or arbitrator ; but rather the moderate , quiet , and private assemblies of the learned . qui apud in capace loquitur non disceptat , sed calumniatur . the presse & pulpit would be morefreed and discharged : neither promotion on the one side , nor glory and heat on the other , ought to continue these chalenges at the crosse , and such places . but rather all preachers especially such as are of a good temper , and have wisedome , with conscience ought to inculcate and beat upon a place , peace , silence , and sufferance . neither let them feare solons law which compelled in factions , every particular person to range himselfe on the one side , or the other : nor the fond calumnie of neutrality . but let them know that it was true which was said by a wise man , that neuters in contention were better or worse , then either side . these things have i in all syncerity and simplicity , set downe touching the controversies which now trouble the church of england , and that without all art or insinuation : and therefore not likely to be gratefull to either part . notwithstanding i trust what hath been said , shall finde a correspondence in their minde , who are not embarked with partiality , and which love the whole better then the part . whereby i am not out of hope that it may doe good . at least i shall not repent my selfe of the meditation . finis . a briefe relation of certaine speciall and most materiall passages, and speeches in the starre-chamber occasioned and delivered the 14th. day of iune, 1637. at the censure of those three famous and worthy gentlemen, dr. bastwicke, mr. burton, and mr. prynne. even so as it hath beene truely and faithfully gathered from their owne mouthes, by one present at the said censure. bastwick, john, 1593-1654. 1638 approx. 66 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a05581) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 1168) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1475-1640 ; 1537:02) a briefe relation of certaine speciall and most materiall passages, and speeches in the starre-chamber occasioned and delivered the 14th. day of iune, 1637. at the censure of those three famous and worthy gentlemen, dr. bastwicke, mr. burton, and mr. prynne. even so as it hath beene truely and faithfully gathered from their owne mouthes, by one present at the said censure. bastwick, john, 1593-1654. england and wales. court of star chamber. 32 p. printed [by w. christiaens], [leiden] : in the yeare of god, 1638. printer's name and place of publication from stc. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bastwick, john, 1593-1654. burton, henry, 1578-1648. prynne, william, 1600-1669. puritans -england -early works to 1800. 2006-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-04 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-05 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2006-05 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a briefe relation of certaine speciall and most materiall passages , and speeches in the starre-chamber , occasioned and delivered the 14th . day of iune , 1637. at the censure of those three famous and worthy gentlemen , dr. bastwicke , mr. burton , and mr. prynne . even so as it hath beene truely and faithfully gathered from their owne mouthes , by one present at the said censure . printed in the yeare of god , 1638. to the reader . christian reader , i present you heere the relation of such a censure ( and the execution thereof ) as i dare say , all circumstances layd together , cannot bee paralled in any age of man throughout the christian world , and i thinke i may take in even the world of pagans and heathens to it . which , though it bee not drawne up in so eloquent a straine , as it was delivered & deserved , nor all the heavenly words and eloquent speeches recorded , which were uttered by these three worthies of the lord , both in the presence of the lords themselves at their censure , and also at the place of execution : yet i earnestly beseech you in the bowels of iesus christ , that you doe not in the least manner under-valu the glory and dignitie , eyther of the persons , or the cause , but rather lay the blame upon the rudenes and meane capacity of the composer , who is an unfeyned wel-wisher to them . fare well . a briefe relation , of certaine speciall & most materiall passages and speeches in the starre-chamber , on the 14th . day of iune , in the yeare 1637. at the censure of those three vvorthy gentlemen , dr. bastwick , mr. burton , and mr. prynne . betweene eight and nine a clocke in the morning ( the 14. of iune ) the lords being set in their places in the said court of starre-chamber , and casting their eyes upon the prisoners , then at the bar , sr. iohn finch ( chiefe iustice of the common pleas ) began to speake after this manner : sr. iohn finch . i had thought m. prynne had had no eares , but me thinkes hee hath eares , which caused many of the lords to take the stricter view of him ; and for their better satisfaction , the usher of the court was commanded to turne up his haire , & shew his eares : upon the sight wherof the lords were displeased they had beene formerly no more cut off ; and cast out some disgracefull words of him . to which m. prynne replied ; m. pryn. my lords , there is never a one of your honours , but would be sorry to have your eares as mine are . the lord keeper replied againe ; l. keeper . in good faith , hee is some what sawcy . m. pryn. i hope ( said m. prynne ) your honours will not be offended , i pray god give you eares to heare . l. keeper the busines of the day ( said the lord keeper ) is to proceed on the prisoners at the barr. m. pryn. m. prynne then humbly desired the court to give him leave to make a motion or two , which being graunted , he mooves , first , that their honours would be pleased to accept of a crosse bill against the prelates , signed with their owne hands , being that which stands with the iustice of the court , which he humbly craved , and so tendred it . l. keeper as for your crosse bill , it is not the busines of the day ; hereafter if the court shall see just cause , and that it savours not of libelling , wee may accept of it ; for my part i have not seene it , but have heard somewhat of it . m. pryn. i hope your honours will not refuse it , being it is on his majesties behalfe ; wee are his majesties subjects , and therefore require the iustice of the court. l. keeper but this is not the busines of the day . m. pryn. why then , my lords , i have a second motion , which i humbly pray your honours to graunt ; which is , that your lordships will be pleased to dismisse the prelates , here now sitting , from having any voyce in the censure of this cause , ( being generally knowne to be adversaries ) as being no way agreeable with equity or reason that they , who are our adversaries , should bee our iudges : therefore wee humbly crave , they may be expunged out of the court. l. keeper in good faith , it 's a sweet motion , is 't not ? herein you are become libellous . and if you should thus libell all the lords and reverend iudges , as you doe the most reverēd prelates , by this your plea , you would have none to passe sentence upon you for you libelling , because they are parties . m. pryn. vnder correction ( my lord ) this doth not hold : your honour need not put that for a certainty , which is an uncertainty ; we have nothing to say to any of your honours , but onely to the prelates . l. keeper well , proceed to the busines of the day ; read the information . which was read , being very large ; and these five bookes annexed thereunto ( viz. ) a booke of d. bastwicks , written in latin. the second , a little booke , intituled , newes from ipswich . the third intitled , a divine tragedy , recording gods fearefull judgements on sabbath-breakers . the fourth , mr. burtons booke , intituled , an apology of an appeale to the kings most excellent majesty , with two sermons for god and the king , preached on the fifth of november last . the fifth and last , dr. bastwickes letany . the kings counsell ( being five ) tooke each of them a severall booke , and descanted there at the barre upon them , according to their pleasure . m. attorney . mr. attorney began first with d. bastwickes latin booke , picking out here & there particular conclusions , that best served for his owne ends , ( so did all the other counsell out of the former other bookes ) to the great abuse of the authors , as themselves there immediately complain'd , intreating them to reade the foregoing grounds , upon which the said conclusions depended , without which they could not understand the true meaning of them . serjeant . next unto the attorney , serjeant whitfeild fals upon reverend m. burtons booke , who vented much bitternes against that unreprooveable booke ( as all that read it with an honest and orthodox heart may clearely perceive ) swearing : in good faith , my lords , there is never a page in this booke , but deserves a heavier and deeper censure then this court can lay upon him . next followed a. b. who in like manner descanted upon the newes from ipswich , charging it to be full of pernitious lyes , and especially vindicating the honor of mathew wren , bishop of norwich , as being a learned , pious , and reverend father of the church . m. littleton . in the fourth place , followes the kings solicitor , who acts his part upon the divine tragedy ; to which part of it , concerning gods judgements on sabbath-breakers , he had little to say , but onely put it off with a scoffe ; saying , that they sate in the seate of god , who judged those accidents which fell out upon persons suddainly strooken , to be the judgement of god for sabbath breaking , or words to the like effect : but enlarged himselfe upon that passage , which reflected upon that late reverend ( as he termed him ) and learned professor of the law , and his majesties faithfull servant m. william noy , his majesties late attorney , who ( as hee said ) was most shamefully abused by a slaunder layd upon him ; which was , that it should be reported , that gods judgement fell upon him for so eagerly prosecuting that innocent person m. prynne ; which judgement was this ; that he , laughing at m. prynne , while hee was suffering upon the pillory , was strooke with an issue of blood in his privy part , which by all the art of man could never bee stopped unto the day of his death , which was soone after . but the truth of this my lords ( saith he ) you shall finde to be as probable as the rest ; for we have here three or foure gentlemen of good credit and ranke , to testify upon oath , that hee had that issue long before , and thereupon made a shew , as if he would call for them in before the lords , to witnesse the truth thereof , with these particular words , make roome for the gentlemen to come in there , but no one witnesse was seene to appeare : which was pretty delusion , and worth all your observations that read it : and so concluded ( as the rest ) that this booke also deserved a heavy and deepe censure . mr. harbert . lastly , followes m. harbert , whose descant was upon dr. bastwickes letanie , picking out one or two passages therein , and so drawing thence his conclusion , that jointly with the rest , it deserved a heavy censure . the kings counsell having all spoken what they could , the lord keeper said to the prisoners at the barre : lord keeper . you heare gentlemen , wherewith you are charged ; and now , least you should say , you cannot have libertie to speake for your selves , the court gives you leave to speake what you can , with these conditions : first , that you speake within the bounds of modesty . secondly , that your speeches bee not libellous . they all three answered : prisoners . they hoped so to order their speech as to be free from any immodest or libellous speaking . lord keeper . then speake a gods name , and shew cause why the court should not proceed in censure ( as taking the cause pro confesso ) against you ? m. pryn. my honourable good lords , such a day of the moneth , there came a subpoena from your honours , to enter my appearance in this court ; which being entred , tooke forth a copy of the information , which being taken , i was to draw my answere , which i endeavoured to doe , but being shut up close prisoner , i was deserted of all meanes , by which i should have done it ; for i was no sooner served with the subpoena , but i was shortly after shut up close prisoner , with suspention of pen , inke and paper ; which close imprisonment did eat up such a deale of my time , that i was hindred the bringing in of my answer . you did assigne me counsell , 't is true , but they neglected to come to me , and i could not come to them , being under lock and key . then upon motion in court , yee gaue me liberty to goe to them ; but then presently after that motion ( i know not for what cause , nor upon whose commaund ) i was shut up againe : and then i could not compell my counsell to come to me , & my time was short , and i had neither pen nor incke , nor servant to do any thing for me , for my servant was then also kept close prisoner under a pursevants hands ; this was to put impossibilities upon mee . then upon a second motion for pen & inke ( which was graunted me ) i drew up some instructions , & in a fortnight time sent 40. sheetes to my councell ; suddainly after i drew up 40. sheetes more , and sent to them ; my lord , i did nothing but by the advise of my counsell , by whom i was ruled in the drawing up of all my answer , and payd him twice for drawing it , and some of my counsell would have set their hands to it . here is my answer , i tender it upon my oath , which your lordships cannot deny with the iustice of the court. lord keeper . wee can give you a president , that this court hath proceeded & undertaken a cause pro confesso for not putting in an answeare in six dayes ; you have had a great deale of favour shewed in affording you longer time , & therefore the court is free from all calumny or aspersion , for rejecting your answer , not signed with the counsels hands . m. pryn. but one word or two ( my lords ) i desire your honours to heare me ; i put a case in law , that is often pleaded before your lordships , one man is bound to bring in two witnesses , if both , or one of them faile , that hee cannot bring thē in , doth the law ( my lords ) make it the mans act ? you assigned me two counsellors ; one of them failed , i cannot compell him ; here now he is before you , let him speake , if i have not used all my endeavours to have had him signed it ( which my other coūsell would haue done , if this would haue set his hand to it with him ) and to have put in long since . counsell . my lord , there was so long time spent ere i could doe any thing ; after i was assigned his councell , that it was impossible his answere could bee drawne up in so short a time as was allotted ; for after long expectation , seeing he came not to me , i went to him , where i found him shut up close prisoner , so that i could not have accesse to him : whereupon i motioned to the lieftenant of the tower , to have free libertie of speech with him concerning his aunswear ; which being graunted mee , i found him very willing & desirous to have it drawne up ; whereupon i did moove in the court for pen and paper , which was graunted , the which hee no sooner had gotten , but hee set himselfe to draw up instructions , and in a short time , sent me 40 sheetes ; and soone after i received 40 more ; but i found the answer so long , of such a nature , that i durst not set my hand to it , for feare of giving your honours distast . m. pryn. my lords , i did nothing , but according to the direction of my counsell , only i spake mine owne words , my answear was drawne up by his consent , it was his owne act , and hee did approove of it ; and if he will be so base à coward , to doe that in private which he dares not acknowledge in publick , i will not such a sin lye on my conscience , let it rest with him . here is my answer , which , though it be not signed with their hāds , yet here i tender it upon my oath , which you cannot in iustice deny . l. keeper . but mr. prynne , the court desires no such long answer ; are you guilty or not guilty ? m. pryn. my good lord , i am to answer in a defensive way , is here any one , that can witnes any thing against me ? let him come in . the law of god standeth thus ; that a man is not to be condemned , but under the mouth of two or three witnesses . here is no witnesse comes in against me , my lord , neither is there in all the information one clause that doth particularly fall on me , but onely in generall , there is no booke laid to my charge . and shall i be condemned for a particular act , when no accusation of any particular act can bee brought against mee ? this were most unjust and wicked . here i tender my aunswere to the information upon my oath ; my lord , you did impose impossibilities upon me , i could doe no more then i was able . l. keeper . well , holde your peace : your answere comes too late . speake you dr. bastwick . dr. bast . my honorable lords , mee thinks you looke like an assembly of gods , and sit in the place of god ; yee are called the sonnes of god : and since i have compared you to gods , give me leave a little to paralell the one with the other , to see whither the comparison betweene god and you doth hold in this noble and righteous cause . this was the car●iage of almighty god in the cause of sodome , before hee would pronounce sentence , or execute judgement , he would first come downe , and see whether the crime was altogether according to the cry that was come up . and with whom doth the lord consult , when he came downe ? with his servant abraham , and hee gives the reason ; for i know ( saith hee ) that abraham will commaund his children & household after him , that they shall keepe the way of the lord to doe iustice & iudgment . my good lords , thus stands the case between your honours and us this day ; there is a great cry come up into your eares against us from the kings attourney ; bee novv pleased to descend and see if the crime be according to the cry , and consult vvith god ( not the prelates being the adversary part , and ; as it is apparant to all the world doe proudly set themselves against the vvayes of god , and from vvhom none can expect iustice or iudgement ) and vvith righteous men , vvill be impartiall on either side , before you proceed to censure : which censure you cannot passe on us vvithout great unjustice before you heare our answers read : here is my answer , which i here tender upon my oath ; my good lords ; give us leave to speake in our owne defence ; wee are not conscious to our selves , of any thing we have done that deserves a censure this day in this honourable court , but that vve have ever laboured to maintaine the honour , dignity , & prerogative royall of our soveraigne lord the king , let my lord the king live for ever . had i a thousands lives , i should thinke them all too little to spend for the maintenance of his majesties royall prerogative : my good lords , can you proceed to censure before you know my cause ? i dare undertake , that scarce any one of your lordships have read my bookes ; and can you then censure me for what you know not , and before i have made my defence ? o my noble lords ! is this righteous judgement ? this were against the law of god and man , to condemne a man , before you know his crime . the governour before whom s. paul was carried ( who was a very heathen ) would first heare his cause before he would passe any censure upon him ; and doth it beseeme so noble and christian assembly to condemne mee , before my answer be perused , and my cause knowne ? men , brethren , and fathers , into what an age are wee fallen ? i desire your honours to lay aside your censure for this day & inquire into my cause , heare my answer read ; which , if you refuse to doe i here professe , i will cloath it in roman buffe , and send it abroad unto the view of all the world , to cleare mine innocency , and shew your great injustice in this cause . lord keeper . but this is not the busines of the day ; why brought you not in your answer in due time ? d. bastwicke . my lord , a long time since i tendred it to your honour , i failed not in any one particular : and if my counsell be so base and cowardly , that they dare not signe it for feare of the prelates ( as i can make it appeare ) therefore have i no answer ? my lord , here is my answer , which , though my counsell out of a base spirit , dare not set their hands unto , yet i tender it upon my oath . l. keeper but m. d. you should have beene briefe ; you tendred in too large an answer , which ( as i heard ) is as libellous as your bookes . d. bastw . no , my lord , it is not libellous , though large , i have none to answer for me but my selfe , and being left to my selfe , i must plead my conscience in answer to every circumstance of the information . l. keeper what say you m. d. are you guilty , or not guilty ? answer yea or no , you needed not to have troubled your selfe so much about so large an answer . d. bastwicke . i know , none of your honours have read my booke ; and can you with the iustice of the court , condemne me before you know what is written in my bookes ? l. keeper what say you to that was read to you even now ? d. bast . my lord , he that read it did so murther the sence of it , that had i not knowne , what i had written , i could not tell what to have made of it . l. keeper what say you to the other sentence read to you ? d. bast . that was none of mine , i will not father that which was none of my owne . l. dorset . did not you send that booke , as now it is , to a noble mans house , together with a letter directed to him ? d. bast . yea my lord , i did so , but withall you may see in my epistle set before the booke , i did at first disclaime what was not mine ; i sent my booke over by a dutch merchant , who it was that wrote the addition i doe not know , but my epistle set to my booke , made manifest what was mine , and what was not ; and i cannot justly suffer for what was none of mine . l. arund . my lord , you heare by his owne speech , the cause is taken pro confesso . l. keeper yea , you say true my lord. d. bast . my noble lord of arundell , i know you are a noble prince in israel , & a great peere of this realme ; there are some honourable lords in this court , that have beene forced out as combatants in a single duell , it is betweene the prelates and us , at this time as betweene two that have appointed the field . the one being a coward goes to the magistrate , & by vertue of his authority disarmes the other of his weapons , & gives him a bullrush , and then challenges him to fight . if this be not base cowardice , i know not what belongs to a souldier . this is the case betweene the prelates and us , they take away our weapons ( our answers ) by vertue of your authority , by which we should defend our selves , and yet they bid us fight . my lord , doth not his savour of a base cowardly spirit ? i know , my lord , there is a decree gone forth , for my sentence vvas passed long since , to cut of our eares . lord keeper . who shall know our censure , before the court passe it ? doe you prophesy of your selves ? d. bastwicke . my lord , i am able to proove it , and that from the mouth of the prelates ovvne servants , that in august last it vvas decreed , that d. bastvvicke should loose his eares . o my noble lords ? is this righteous judgement ? i may say , as the apostle once said , what , whipp a roman ? i have beene a souldier , able to lead an army into the field , to fight valiantly for the honour of their prince ; now i am a physitian , able to cure nobles , kings , princes , and emperors : and to curtolize a romans eares , like a curre , o my honourable lords ! is it not too base an act for so noble an assembly , and for so righteous and honourable a cause ? the cause my lords is great , it concernes the glory of god , the honour of our king , whose prerogative we labour to maintaine and to set up in a high manner , in which your honours liberties are engag'd : and doth not such a cause deserve your lordships consideration , before you proceed to censure ? your honours may be pleased to consider , that in the last cause heard and censured in this court , between st. iames bagge , & the lord moone , wherein your lordships tooke a great deale of paines , with a great deale of patience , to heare the bills on both sides , with all the answers & depositions largely laid open before you ; which cause when you had fully heard , some of your honours now sitting in court , said , you could not in conscience proceed to censure , till you had taken some time to recollect your selves . if in a cause of that nature , you could spend so much time , and afterwards recollect your selves before you would passe censure : how much more should it moove your honours , to take some time in a cause wherein the glory of god , the prerogative of his majestie your honours dignity , and the subjects liberty is so largely ingaged ? my good lords , it may fall out to be any of your lordships cases to stand as delinquents at this barre , as we now doe : it is not unknowne to your honours , the next cause that is to succeed ours , is touching a person that sometimes hath beene in greatest power in this court : and if the mutations and revolutions of persons and times be such , then i doe most humbly beseech your honours to looke on us , as it may befall your selves . but if all this will not prevaile with your honours , to peruse my bookes ; and heare my answer read , which here i tender upon the word and oath of a souldier , a gentleman , a scholler , and a physitian : i will cloath them ( as i said before ) in roman buffe , and disperse them throughout the christian world , that future generations may see the innocency of this cause , and your honours unjust proceedings in it ; all which i will doe , though it cost me my life . l. keeper mr. d. i thought you would be angrie . dr. bast . no my lord , you are mis-taken , i am not angrie nor passionate ; all that i doe presse , is , that you would be pleased to peruse my answer . d. keeper well , hold your peace . mr. burton , what say you ? mr. burton . my goods lords , your honours ( it should seeme ) doe determine to censure us , and take our cause pro confesso , although we have laboured to give your honours satisfaction in all things : my lords , what you have to say against my booke , i confesse i did write it , yet did i not any thing out of intent of commotion or sedition : i delivered nothing , but what my text led me too , being chosen to suite with the day , namely , the fifth of november ; the word were these , &c. l. keeper m. burton , i pray stand not naming texts of scripture now , we doe not send for you to preach ; but to answer to those things that are objected against you . m. burt. my lord , i have drawne up my answer to my great paines and charges , which answer was signed with my counsels hands , and received into the court , according to the rule and order thereof . and i did not thinke to have beene called this day to a censure , but have had a legall proceeding by way of bill and answer . l. keeper your answer was impertinent . m. burt. my answer ( after it was entred into the court ) was referred to the judges , but by what meanes i doe not know , whither it be impertinent , and what cause your lordships had to cast it out , i knovv not . but after it was approved of ; and received , it was cast out as an impertinent answer . l. finch . the iudges did you a good turne to make it impertinent , for it was as libellous as your booke , so that your answer deserved a censure alone . l. keeper what say you mr. button , are you guilty , or not ? m. burton . my lord , i desire you not onely to peruse my booke , here and there , but every passage of it . l. keeper mr. burton , time is short , are you guilty , or not guilty ? what say you to that which was read ? doth it become a minister to deliver himselfe in such a rayling and scandalous way ? m. burton . in my judgement , and as i can proove it , it was neither rayling not scandalous ; i conceive that a minister hath a larger liberty then alwayes to goe in a milde straine : being the pastor of my people , whom i had in charge , and was to instruct , i supposed it was my duety to informe them of those innovations that are crept into the church , as likewise of the danger and ill consequence of them : as for my answer , yee blotted out what yee would , and then the rest which made best for your owne ends , you would have to stand ; and now for your owne turnes and renounce the rest , were to desert my cause , which before i will doe , or desert my conscience , i will rather desert my body , and deliver it up to your lordships , to doe with it what you will. l. keeper this is a ●lace where you should crave mercy and favour , mr. burton , and not stand upon such termes as you doe . m. burt. there wherein i have offended through humane frailty , i crave of god & man pardon : and i pray god , that in your sentence , you may so censure us , that you may not sinne against the lord. thus the prisoners desiring to speake a little more for themselves , were commaunded to silence . and so the lord proceeded to censure . the lord cottingtons censure . i condemne these three men to loose their eares in the pallaceyard at westminster ; to be fined five thousands pounds a man to his majestie : and to perpetuall prisonment in three remote places of the kingdome , namely , the castles of carnaruan , cornwall , and lancaster . the lord finch added to this censure . mr. prynne to be stigmatized in the cheekes with two letters ( s & l ) for a seditious libeller . to which all the lord agreed . and so the lord keeper concluded the censure . the execution of the lords censure in starre-chamber upon d. bastwijcke , m. prynne , and m. burton , in the pallace-yard at westminster , the 30th . day of iune last 1637. at the spectation whereof the number of people was so great ( the place being very large ) that it caused admiration in all that beheld them ; who came with tender affections to behold those three renowned souldiers and servants of iesus christ , who came with most undaunted and magnanimous courage thereunto , having their way strawed with sweet hearbes from the house out of which they came to the pillary , with all the honour that could bee done unto them . dr. bastwijcke and mr. burton first meeting , they did close one in the others armes three times , with as much expressions of love as might bee , rejoycing that they met at such a place , upon such an occasion , & that god had so highly honoured them , as to call them forth to suffer for his glorious truth . then immediately after , m. prynne came , the d. and hee saluting each other , as m. burton and hee did before . the d. then went up first on the scaffold , and his wife immediately following , came up to him , and like a loving spouse saluted each care with a kisse , and then his mouth ; whose tender love , boldnes , and cheerefullnes so wrought upon the peoples affections , that they gave marvailous great showte for joy , to behold it . her husband desired her not to bee in the least maner dismay'd at his suffrings : and so for a while they parted , she using these words : farewell my deerest , be of good comfort , i am nothing dismay'd . and then the d. began to speake these words . there are many that are this day spectators of our standing here , as delinquents , though not delinquents , we blesse god for it . i am not conscious to my self wherein i have committed the least trespasse ( to take this outward shame ) either against my god , or my king. and i doe the rather speake it , that you , that are now beholders , may take notice , how farre innocency will preserve you in such a day as this is ; for wee come here in the strength of our god , who hath mightily supported us , and filled our hearts with greater comfort then our shame or contempt can bee . the first occasion of my trouble was by the prelates , for writing a booke against the pope , and the pope of canterbury sayd i wrote against him : and therefore questioned me : but if the presses were as open to us , as formerly they have been , we would shatter his kingdom about his eares : but bee ye not deterred by their power , neither bee affrighted at our sufferings ; let none determine to turne from the wayes of the lord , but goe on , fight couragiously against gog & magog . i know there be many here who have set many dayes apart for our behalfe , ( let the prelates take notice of it ) and they have sent up strong prayers to heaven for us , we feele the strength and benefit of them at this time ; i would have you to take notice of it ; we have felt the strength & benefit of your prayers all along this cause . in a word , so farre i am from base feare , or caring for any thing that they can do , or cast upon me , that , had i as much blood as would swell the theames , i would shedd it every droppe in this cause , therefore be not any of you discouraged , be not daunted on their power , ever labouring to preserve innocency , & keep peace within , goe on in the strength of your god , and hee will never fayle you in such a day as this ; as i sayd before , so i say againe ; had i as many lives as i have heires on my head , or droppe of blood in my veines , i would give them up all for this cause ; this plot of sending us to those remote places , was first consulted and agitated by the jesuites , as i can make it plainly appeare . o see , what times we are fallen into , that the lords must sit to act the iesuites plots ! for our owne parts , wee owe no mallice to the persons of any of the prelats , but would lay our necks under their feet to doe them good as they are men , but against the usurpation of their power , as they are bishops , we doe professe our selves enemies till doomes day . mr. prynne shaking the dr. by the hand , desired him that hee might speake a word or two . with all my heart , sayd the doctor . te cause ( sayd mr. prynne ) of my standing here , is , for not bringing in my answer , for which my cause is taken pro confesso against mee . what endeavours j used for the bringing in thereof , that , god and my owne conscience , and my counsell knowes , whose cowardise stands upon record to all ages . for rather then j will have my cause a leading cause , to deprive the subjects of that libertie which j seek to maintaine , j rather expose my person to a leading example , to beare this punishment : and j beseech you all to take notice of their proceedings in this cause , when j was served with a subpoena into this court , j was shut up close prisoner , that j could have no accesse to counsell , nor admitted pen , inke or paper to draw up my answere by my jnstructions , for which j feed them twice ( though to no purpose ) yet when all was done , my answer would not be accepted into the court , though i tendered it upon my oath . i appeale to all the world , if this were a legall or just proceeding . our accusation is in point of libell ( but supposedly ) against the prelates : to cleere this now , i will give you a little light what the law is in point of libell ( of which profession i have sometimes beene , and still professe my selfe to have some knowledge in ) you shall finde in case of libell , tvvo statutes : the one , in the second of queene mary ; the other , in the seventh of queene elizabeth . that in the second of queene mary , the extremity and heighth of it runs thus : that , if a libeller doth goe so farre and so high as to libel against king or queene , by denomination , the high and extremity of the law is , that they lay no greater fine on him then an hundred pounds , vvith a moneths imprisonment , and no corporall punishment , except hee doe refuse to pay his fine ; and then to inflict some punishment in lievve of that fine , at the moneths end . neither was this censure to be passed on him , except it vvere fully prooved by tvvo vvitnesses , vvho vvere to produce a certificat of their good demeanor for the credit of their report , or else confessed by the libeller . you shall finde in that statute 7. eliz. some further addition to the former of 2. marie , and that onely in point of fine & punishment , and it must still reach as high as the person of king or queen . here this statute doth set a fine of two hundred pounds ; the other , but one : this sets three moneths emprisonment ; the former but one : so that therein onely they differ . but in this they both agree , namely , at the end of his imprisonment to pay his fine , and soo to goe free vvithout any further question : but if hee refuse to pay his fine , then the court is to inflict some punishment on him correspondent to his fine . novv , see the disparity between those times of theirs , and ours . a libeller in queen maries time , vvas fined but an hundred pounds , in queen elizabeth time tvvo hundred ; in queen maries daeys but a moneths imprisonment ; in queen elizabeths three moneths ; and not so great a fine , if they libelled not against king or queen . formerly the greatest fine vvas but tvvo hundred pounds , though against king or queen ; novv five thousand pounds , though but against the prelates , & that but supposedly , vvhich cannot be prooved : formerly , but the moneths imprisonment ; novv perpetuall imprisonment : then , upon paying the fine , no corporall punishment vvas to be inflicted ; but novv , infamous punishment , vvith the losse of blood , and all other circumstances that may aggravate it . see novv vvhat times vve are fallen into , vvhen that libelling ( if it vvere so ) against prelates onely , shall fall higer , then if it touched kings and princes ? that vvhich i have to speake of next , is this : the prelates finde themselves exceedingly agrieved and vexed against vvhat vve have vvritten concerning the usurpation of their calling , vvhere indeed vve declare their calling not to be iure divino . i make no doubt , but there are some intelligencers or abbertors vvithin the hearing , vvhom i vvould have vvell knovv and take notice of vvhat i novv say . i here in this place make this offer to them : that , if i may be admitted a faire dispute , on faire termes , for my cause , that i vvill maintaine , and doe here make the challenge against all the prelates in the kings dominions , and against all the prelates in christendome , ( let them take in the pope , and all to help them ) that their calling is not iure divino . i will speake it againe ; i make the challenge , against all the prelates in the kings dominions , and all christendome to maintaine , that their calling is not iure divino . if i make it not good , let mee bee hanged up at the hall-gate : where upon the people gave a great shout . the next thing that i am to speake of , is this : the prelates find themselves exceedingly agrieved and vext against vvhat i have vvritten in point of lavv , concerning their writs and proces , that the sending forth of writs and proces in their ovvne name , is against all lavv and iustice , and doth entrench on his majesties prerogative royall , and the subjects liberties . and here novv i make a second challenge against al the lavvyers in the kingdom in way of fayre dispute , that i vvill maintaine , the prelates sending forth of writs and proces in their ovvne names , to be against all lavv and iustice , and entrencheth on his majesties prerogative royall , and subjects liberty . lest it should bee forgotten , i speake it again , i here challenge all the vvhole society of the lavv upon a fayre dispute , to maintaine , that the sending forth of writs and proces in the prelates ovvne names , to be against all lavv and iustice , and entrencheth on the kings prerogative royall , & the subjects liberty . if i bee not able to make it good , let mee bee put to the tormentingest death they can devise . wee praise the lord , vvee feare none but god and the king : had vvee respected our liberties vvee had not stood here at this time : it vvas for the generall good and liberties of you all , that vve have now thus farre engaged our ovvn liberties in his cause . for did you know , how deeply they have entrenched on your liberties in point of popery ; if you knew but into what times you are cast , it would make you looke about you : and if you did but see what changes and revolutions of persons , causes and actions , have beene made by one man , you would more narrowly looke into your priviledges , and see how farre your liberty did lawfully extend and so maintaine it . this is the second time that i have beene brought to this place who hath beene the author of it , i thinke you all well know : for the first time , if i could have had leave given me , i could easily have cleered my selfe of that vvhich was then laid to my charge : as also i could have done now , if i might have been permitted to speake . that booke for vvhich i suffered formerly , especially for some particular vvords therin vvritten , vvhich i quoted out of gods vvord , and ancient fathers , for vvhich notvvithstanding , they passed censure on me ; that same booke vvas tvvice licensed by publicke authority , and the same vvords i then suffered for , they are againe made use of , and applied in the same sence by heylin in his booke lately printed , and dedicated to the king , and no exceptions taken against them , but are very vvell taken . dr. bastwicke . aye ( said d. bastvvicke ) and there is another booke of his licensed , vvherein he rayles against us three at his pleasure ; and against the martyrs that suffered in queen maries dayes , calling them schismaticall hereticks , and there is another booke of pocklingtons licensed ; they bee as full of lyes as dog bee full of fleas , but vvere the presses as open to us as they are to them , vvee vvould pay them , and their great master that upholds them , and charge them vvith notorious blasphemy . m. pryn. said mr. prynne , you all at this present see , there be no degrees of men exempted from suffering : here is a reverend divine for the soule , a phisition for the body , and a lawyer for the estate : i had thought they vvould have let alone their ovvne society , and not have meddled vvith any of them . and the next ( for ought i knovv ) may bee a bishop . you see they spare none of vvhat society or calling soever , none are exemted that crosse their ovvne ends . gentlemen , looke to your selves ; if all the martyrs that suffered in queen maries dayes , are accounted and called schismaticall hereticks , and factious fellowes : what shall vve looke for ? yet so they are called in a booke lately come forth under authority . and such factious fellovves are vvee , for discovering a plot of popery . alas poore england ! vvhat vvill become of thee , if thou looke not the sooner into thine ovvne priviledges , and maintainest not thine ovvne lavvfull liberty ? christian people : i beseech you all , stand firme , and bee zealous for the cause of god , and his true religion , to the shedding of your dearest blood , othervvise you vvill bring your selves , and all your posterities , into perpetuall bondage and slavery . novv , the executioner being come , to seare him , and cut of his eares , m. prynne spake these vvords to him : come friend , come , burne mee , cu● mee , i feare not . i have learn'd to feare the fire of hell , and not what man can doe unto mee : come , seare mee , seare mee , i shall beare in my body the markes of the lord iesus : which the bloody executioner performed vvith extraordinary cruelty , heating his iron tvvice , to burne one cheeke : and cut one of his eares so close , that hee cut off a piece of his cheeke . at vvhich exquisit torture hee never mooved vvith his body , or so much as changed his countenance , but still lookt up as vvell as he could tovvards heaven , vvith a smiling countenance , even to the astonishment of all the beholders . and uttering ( assoone as the executioner had done ) this heavenly sentence : the more i am beaten downe , the more am i lift up . and returning from the execution in a boate , made ( as i heare ) these tvvo verses by the vvay , on the tvvo charasters branded on his cheekes . s. l. stigmata laudis . stigmata maxillis bajulans insignia lavdis exultans remeo , victima grata deo. which one since thus englished : s. l. lauds scars . trimphant i returne , my face descries , lauds scorching scars , gods greatefull sacrifice . mr. burtons heavenly and most comfortable speech , which he made at the time of his fuffering , both before and while he stood in the pillary , which was something distant from the other double pillary , wherein dr. bastwicke and mr. prynne stood . the night before his suffering , about eyght a clock , when he first had certaine notice thereof , upon occasion of his wives going to aske the warden , whither her husband should suffer the next day , immediately he felt his spirits to be raysed to a farre higher pitch of resolution and courage to undergoe his sufferings , then formerly he did , so as he intreated the lord to hold up his spirits at that heigth all the next day in his sufferings , that he might not flagg nor faint , least any dishonour might come to his majestie or the cause : and the lord heard him : for all the next day in his suffering ( both before and after ) his spirits were carried aloft as it were upon eagles wings ( as himselfe said ) farre above all apprehension of shame or paine . the next morning ( being the day of his sufferings ) hee was brought to westminster , and with much cheerefullnes beeing brought into the pallace-yard unto a chamber that looked into the yard , where he viewed three pillaries there set up : me thinkes ( said hee ) i see mount calvery , where the three crosses ( one for christ , and the other two for the two theeves ) were pitched : and if christ were numbred among theeves , shall a christian ( for christs cause ) thinke much to be numbred among rogues , such as wee are condemned to be ? surely , if i be a rogue , i am christs rogue , and no mans . and a little after , looking out at the casement toward the pillary , hee sayd : i see no difference betweene looking out of this square window , and yonder round hole poyning towards the pillary ) hee said : it is no matter of difference , to an honest man. and a little after that , looking some what wishly upon his wife , to see how shee did take it ; shee seemed to him to be something sadd ▪ to whom hee thus spake : wise , why art thou so sadd ? to whom shee made answer ; sweet heart , i am not sadd : no , said hee ? see thou be not , for i would not have thee to dishonour the day , by shedding one teare , or fetching one sigh : for behold therefore thy comfort , my triumphant chariot on the which i must ride for the honour of my lord & master : and never was wedding day so welcome and joy full a day , as this day is ; and so much the more , because i have such a noble captaine and leader , who hath gone before mee with such undauntednes of spirit , that hee sayth of himselfe , i gave my backe to the smiters , my cheekes to the nippers , they pluckt off the haire , i hidd not my face , from shame and spitting , for the lord god will helpe mee ; therefore shall i not be confounded , therefore have i set my face like a flint , and i know i shall not be ashamed . at length being carried toward the pillary , hee met d. bastwicke at the foot of the pillary ; where they lovingly saluted and embraced each other ; and parting a little from him , hee returned ( such was the ardency of his affection ) and most affectionately embraced him the second time , being heartily sorry hee missed mr. prynne , who was not yet come before hee was gonne up to his pillary , which stood alone next the starre-chamber , and about halfe a stones cast from the other double pillary , wherein the other two stood : so as all their faces looked southward , the bright sun all the while for the space of two howers shining upon them : being ready to be put into the pillary standing upon the scaffold , he spied mr. prynne new come to the pillary , & dr. bastwicke in the pillary , who then hasted of his band , & called for a handkercher , saying : what , shall i be last ? or shall i be ashamed of a pillary for christs , who was not ashamed of a crosse for mee ? then being put into the pillary , ●e sayd : good people , i am brought hither to be a spectacle to the world , to angels , and men . and howsoever i stand here to undergoe the punishment of a rogue , yet except to bee a faithfull servant to christ , & a loyall subject to the king , be the property of a rogue , i am no rogue . but yet if to bee christs faithfull servant , and the kings loyall subject , deserve the punishment of a rogue , i glory in it , and i blesse my god , my conscience is cleare , & is not stained with the guilt of any such crime , as i have beene charged with , though otherwise i confesse my selfe to be a man subject to many frailties & humane infirmities . indeed , that booke intiteled , an apology of an appeale with sundry epistles , and two sermons , for god and the king , charged against me in the information , i have , and doe acknowledge ( the misprinting excepted ) to be mine , and will by gods grace never disclaime it whilst i have breath within mee . after while , hee having a nosegay in his hand , a bee came and pitched on the nosegay , & began to suck the flowers very savourly , which hee beholding and well observing , said : doe yee not see this poore bee ? she hath found out this very place to suck sweetnes from christ . the bee sucking all this while , and so tooke her flight . by and by , hee tooke occasion from the shining of the sunne , to say : you see how the sunne shines upon us , but that shines as well upon the evill as the good , upon the just and unjust , but that the sonne of righteousnes ( iesus christ , who hath healing under his wings ) shines upon the soules and consciences of every true beleever onely , and no clowd can hide him from us , to make him ashamed of us , no not of our most shamefull sufferings for his sake : and why should wee be ashamed to suffer for his sake who hath suffered for us ? all our sufferings be but fleabitings to that bee endured , hee endured the crosse , and despised the shame , and is set on the right hand of god : hee is a most excellent patterne for us to looke upon , that , treading his stepps , and suffering with him , wee may bee glorified with him . and what can wee suffer , wherein hee hath not gone before us , even in the same kinde ? was hee not degraded , when they scornefully put on him a purple robe , a reede into his hand , a thorny crowne upon his head , saluting him with hayle king of the iewes ; and so disrobed him againe ? was not hee deprived , when they smote the shepherd , and the sheepe were scattered ? was not violence offered to his sacred person , when hee was buffited , and scourged , his hands and his feet pierced , his head pricked with thornes , his side goared with a speare , & c. ? was not the crosse more shamefull , yea and more painfull then a pillary ? was not hee stript of all he had , when he was left starke naked upon the crosse , the souldiers dividing his garments , and casting lots upon his vesture ? and was hee not confin'd to perpetuall close imprisonment in mans imagination , when his body was layd in a tombe , and the tombe sealed , least hee should breake prison , or his disciples steale him away ? and yet did hee not rise againe , and thereby brought deliverance and victory to us all , so as we are more then conquerors through him that loved us ? here then we have an excellent patterne indeed . and all this hee uttered ( and whatsoever else hee spake ) with marvailous alacrity . one sayd unto mr. burton , christ will not be ashamed of you at the last day . hee replied , hee knew whom he had beleeved , and that christ was able to keep that he had committed to him against that day . one asked him how hee did ? hee said , never better , i blesse god , who hath accounted mee worthy thus to suffer . the keeper , keeping of the people from pressing neere the pillary ; hee sayd , let them come and spare not , that they may learne to suffer . this same keeper , being weary , and sitting him downe , asked mr. burton , if he were well , and bad him be of good comfort . to whom hee replied , are you well ? if you be well , i am much more , and full of comfort , i blesse god. some asked him , if the pillary were not uneasy for his neck and shoulders . hee answered : how can christs yoake be uneasy ? this is christs yoake , and he beares the heavier end of it , and i the lighter , & if mine were too heavy , hee would beare that too . o good people ! christ is a good and sweet master , & worth the suffering for ! and if the world did but know his goodnes , & had tasted of his sweetnes , all would come and be his servants ; and did they but know what a blessed thing it were to beare his yoake , o! who would not beare it ? the keeper going about to ease the pillarie , by putting a stone or a bricke-batt betweene , mr. burton sayd , trouble not your selfe , i am at very good ease , and feele no wearines at all . and espying a young man at the foote of the pillary , and perceyving him to looke pale on him : hee said , sonne , sonne , what is the matter you looke so pale ? i have as much comfort as my heart can hold , and if i had need of more , i should have it . one asked him a while after , if he would drinke some aqua vitae . to whom he replied , that he needed it not ; for i have , sayd he , ( laying his hand upon his breast ) the true water of life , which , like a well doth spring up to eternall life . pawsing a while , he sayd with a most cheereful , & grave countenance , i was never in such a pulpit before , but little doe ye know ( speaking to them that stood about him ) what fruits god is able to produce from this drye tree ; they looking stedfastly upon him , hee sayd , marke my words , and remember them well , i say , little doe you know , what fruites god is able to produce from this dry tree : i say , remember it well , for this day will never be forgotten ; and through these holes ( poynting to the pillary ) god can bring light to his church . the keeper going about againe to mend the pillary , he sayd : doe not trouble your selfe so much : but indeed we are the troublers of the world . by & by after , some of them offering him a cup of wine ; he thanked them , telling them , he had the wine of consolation within him , & the joyes of christ in possession , which the world could not take away from him , neither could it give them unto him . then he looked towards the other pillary , and making a signe with his hand , cheerefull called to dr. bastwicke , and mr. prynne , asking them , how they did ? who answered , very well . a woman said unto him , sir , every christian is not worthy this honour , which the lord hath cast upon you this day . alas ( said he ) who is worthy of the least mercy ? but it is his gracious favour & free gift , to account us worthy in the behalf of christ to suffer any thing for his sake . another woman said , there are many hundreds which by gods assistance wou●d willingly suffer , for the cause you suffer for this day . to whom he said , christ exalts all of us that are ready to suffer afflictions for his name with meeknes & patience : but christs military discipline in the use of his spirituall warfare in point of suffering , is quite forgotten , and we have in a manner lost the power of religion , in not denying our selves , and following christ as well in sufferings as in doing . after a while mr. burton calling to one of his friends for a handkercher , returned it againe , saying : it is hott , but christ bore the burthen in the heate of the day ; let us alwayes labour to approove our selves to god in all things , and unto christ , for therein stands our happines , come of it what will in this world . a christian friend sayd to mr. burton , the lord strengthen you . to whom hee replied , i thanke you , and i blesse his name hee strengthens . for though i am a poore sinfull wretch , yet i blesse god for my innocent conscience in any such crime as is laid against mee ; and were not my cause good , and my conscience sound , i could not enjoy so much unspeakeable comfort in this my sufferings as i doe : i blesse my god. mistris burton sends commendation to him by a friend : hee returned the like to her , saying , commend my love to my wife , and tell her , i am hartely cheerefull , and bidd her remember what i sayd to her in the morning , namely , that she should not blemish the glory of this day with one teare , or so much as one sigh . she returned answer , that shee was glad to heare him so cheerefull ; and that shee was more cheerefull of this day , then of her wedding day . this answere exceedingly rejoyced his heart , who thereupon blessed god for her , and sayd of her , shee is but a young souldier of christs , but shee hath already endured many a sharp brunt , but the lord will strengthen her unto the end : and hee having on a payre of new gloves , shewed them to his friends there about him , saying : my wife yesterday of her owne accord bought me these wedding gloves , for this is my wedding day . many friends spake comfortable to mr. burton , and hee againe spake as comfortably to them , saying : i blesse my god , that called me forth to suffer this day . one said to him , sr. by this ( sermon ) your suffering god may convert many unto him . hee answered : god is able to doe it indeed . and then he called againe to dr. bastwicke and mr. prynne asking them how they did ? who answered as before . some speaking to him concerning that suffering of shedding his blood : hee answered , what is my blood to christs blood ? christs blood is a purging blood , but mine is corrupted and polluted with sin . one friend asked another , standing neere mr. burton , if there should bee any thing more done unto him ▪ mr. burton overhearing him , answered : why should there not be more done ? for what god will have done , must bee accompished . one desiring mr. burton to be of good cheere : to whom hee thus replied : if you knew my cheere , you would be glad to be partaker with mee ; for i am not alone , neither hath god left me alone in all my sufferings , & close imprisonment , since first i was apprehended . the halbertmen standing round about , one of them had an old rusty halbert , the iron whereof was tacked to the staffe with an old crooked naile ; which one observing , and saying , what an old rusty halbert is that ? m. burton said , this seemes to mee to be one of those halberts , which accompanied iudas , when he went to betray & apprehend his master . the people observing mr. burtons cheerefulnes , and courage in suffering , rejoyced , and blessed god for the same . mr. burton said againe , i am perswaded that christ my advocate , is now pleading my cause at the fathers right hand , and will judge my cause , ( though none be found here to plead it ) and will bring forth my righteousnes as the light at noone day , & cleere my innocency in due time . a friend asking m. burton , if he would have bin without this particular suffering ? to whom hee sayd , no : not for a world . moreover , he sayd , that his conscience is the discharge of his ministeriall duety and function , in admonishing his people to beware of the creeping in of popery & superstition , exhorting them to sticke close unto god & the king , in duties of obedience was that which first occasioned his sufferings , & sayd , as for this truth i have preached , i am ready to seale it with my blood , for this is my crowne both here and hereafter . i am jealous of gods honour , and the lord keepe us that wee may doe nothing that may dishonour him , either in doing or suffering , god can bring light out of darkenes , and glory out of shame : and what shall i say more ? i am like a bottle which is so full of liquor , that it cannot runne out freely ; so i am so full of joy , that i am not able to expresse it . in conclusion : some tolde him of the approach of the executioner , and prayed god to strengthen him . hee sayd , i trust hee will , why should i feare to follow my master christ , who sayde : i gave my backe to the smiters , and my cheecke to the nippers , that plucked of my haire , i hidde not my face from shame and spitting , for the lord god will helpe mee , therefore shall i not bee confounded , i have set my face like a flint , and i know that i shall not bee ashamed . when the executioner had cut off one eare , which hee had cut deepe and close to the head , in an extraordinary manner : yet this champion of christ never once mooved or stirred for it , though he had cut the veyne , so as the blood ranne streaming downe upon the scaffold , which divers persons standing about the pillary , seeing , dipped their handkerchers in , as a thing most precious , the people giving a mournefull shout , and crying for the chyrurgeon , whom the crowd and other impediments for a time kept off , so that hee could not come to stop the blood ; this patient all the while held up his hands , and sayd , bee content , it is well , blessed bee god. the other eare , being cut no lesse deepe , hee then was freed from the pillary , and come downe , where the chyrurgeon waiting for him , presently applyed remedy for stopping the blood after a large effusion thereof , yet for all this hee fainted not in the least manner , though through expense of much blood hee waxed pale . and one offering him a little wormwood water , hee sayd : it needs not , yet through importunitie he onely tasted of it , and no more , saying , my master christ was not so well used , for they gave him gall and veniger , and you give me strong water , to refresh mee , blessed be god. his head being bound up , two friends led him away to an house provided for him in kings street , where being set downe , and bid to speake little , yet hee sayd after a pawse , this is too hot to hold long . now , lest they in the roome , or his wife should mis-take , and thinke he spake of himselfe concerning his paine , hee sayd ; i speake not this of my self : for that which i have suffered is nothing to that my saviour suffered for mee , who had his hands & feete nayled to the crosse : and lying still a while , ●●e tooke mr. prynnes sufferings much to heart , and asked the people how he did , for ( said he ) his sufferings have beene great . he asked also how dr. bastwicke did , with much compassion and griefe , that hee ( being the first that was executed ) could not stay to see how they two fayred after him . his wife being brought to him , behaved herself very graciously towards him , saying : wellcome sweet heart , wellcome home . he was often heard to repeate these words : the lord keepe us , that we doe not dishonour him in any thing . amen . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a05581-e180 d. bastwijcke . the right use of that argument in prayer from the name of god on behalf of a people that profess it by john howe. howe, john, 1630-1705. 1682 approx. 102 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 33 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a44689 wing h3038 estc r29443 11146736 ocm 11146736 46385 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a44689) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 46385) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1425:6) the right use of that argument in prayer from the name of god on behalf of a people that profess it by john howe. howe, john, 1630-1705. [6], 56 p. printed for brabazon aylmer, london : 1682. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng prayer. puritans -doctrines. 2004-10 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 andrew kuster sampled and proofread 2004-12 andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the right use of that argument in prayer from the name of god ; on behalf of a people that profess it . by john howe minister of the gospel . london , printed for brabazon aylmer , at the three pidgeons , over against the royal exchange in cornhil , 1682. the preface . no sort of men have ever pretended to religion , who have not allowed unto prayer a very eminent place in it . and so much a deeper , and more potent principle is religion , in the nature of man than reason , ( though both are miserably perverted , and infeebled ) that the former doth secretly prompt men ( especially in great distresses ) to pray , and expect relief by prayer , when the way wherein it is efficacious , cannot so well be explicated , or apprehended by the other . and as prayer hath ever been reckon'd a very principal part of religion . so hath intercession for others been wont to be accounted a very fit and proper part of prayer . in the general , prayer is most evidently , a duty of natural religion , a dictate of nature , which every man 's own mind suggests to him , or may be appeal'd to about it : ( should not a people seek unto their god ? ) whence that personated , eloquent patron of the christian cause , urging for the conviction of his heathen adversary , the common practice of people in their extremities , to lift up ( even untaught ) their hands and eyes to heaven , fitly sayes of it , vulgi iste naturalis est sermo , that they do herein , as it were , but speak the language of nature . now hereupon , the impression of that primitive law of nature , ( not quite worn out from the mind of man , even in this his very degenerate state ) to love our neighbours as our selves , doth as a natural instinct , secretly prompt us to pray for others , whom we cannot otherwise help , ( especially such to whom we have more peculiar obligations , who are in a more especial sense our neighbours ) as ( at least , in our last necessities ) we do for our selves . in which recourse to god , whether for our selves or others , we are led by a sense of our own impotency , and dependent state , from a deeply inward apprebension of a deity , that is ( as epicurus himself seems constrain'd to acknowledge concerning the idea of god , ) even proleptical , or such as prevents reason . so that we do not , being urg'd by the pinching necessity of the case , stay to deliberate , and debate the matter with our selves , how this course should bring relief , but do even take it for granted , that it may ; by an apprehension that is earlier in us , than any formal reasoning about it , and being prior to it , is also not supprest by it , but prevails against it , if there be any thing in reason objected , which we cannot so clearly answer . yet , when we do bring the matter to a rational discussion , we find that in our conception of god , we have the apprehension of so perfect , and excellent a nature , that we cannot suppose he should be mov'd by any thing foreign to himself , or that we can inform him of any thing he knew not before , or incline him to any thing , to which his own nature inclines him not . and therefore , that though the wise and apt course of his government over intelligent creatures requires that they should be apprehensive of their own concernments , ( whether personal or that belong to them as they are in communities , ) and pay a solemn homage to his sovereign power and goodness , by supplicating him about them , yet that if he hear their prayers , it must not be for their sakes , but his own . therefore also , it cannot upon strictest reasoning , but seem most dutiful to him , and hopeful for our selves , that our prayers should be conceiv'd after such a tenour , as may be most agreeable unto that apprehension . the holy scriptures , and the divine spirit do both aim at the recovery of apostate man , and the repairing the decayes of his degenerate nature , and do therefore ( besides what was necessary to be added ) renew the dictates of the law of nature , the one more expresly representing them , the other impressing them afresh , and reimplanting them in the hearts of all that are born of god. therefore that external revelation of the mind and will of god doth direct , and his blessed spirit ( which is pleased to be in all his children the spirit of grace and supplication , ) doth inwardly prompt them , not only to pray ( in reference to their single and common concernments ) but to form their prayers after this tenour ; which is to be seen in their so frequent use of this argument in prayer , from the name of god. whereupon , in a time when we are so much concern'd , to be very instant in prayer , not only each of us for himself , but for the body of a people , upon whom that holy name is called . i reckon'd it seasonable to shew briefly the import and right use of this argument ; and to that purpose have taken for the ground , the following text of scripture . jer . 14. 21. do not abhorr us for thy names sake . where we have a petition and the argument enforcing it . 1. a very serious petition , or a deprecation of the most fearful evil imaginable . do not abhor us . the word doth not meerly signifie abhorrence but disdain . a displeasure prevailing to that degree , and so fixed , as to infer rejection , even from a just sense of honour . so some of the versions read , reject us not , or cast us not forth , as we would do what ( or whom ) we despise and scorn to own ; as if it were feared the holy god might count it ignominious , and a reproach to him , to be further related to such a people , and might even be ashamed to be called their god. ( and consequently that the following argument is used not without some suspence of mind , and doubt lest it should be turn'd against them , whereof more hereafter . ) here it is imply'd , 1. to be no impossible thing that god should reject with abhorrence a people once his own , or that have been in peculiar , visible relation to him . prayer is conversant about matters of divine liberty , i. e. that are not known to us to be already determined this way or that ; but that may be , or may not be , as he pleases , and sees fit ; consistently with the settled course and order of things , not about things that he had before made ordinarily necessary , nor about things that are simply , or in ordinary course impossible . in the former case prayer would be needless , in the latter , to no purpose . we do not pray that the sun may rise to morrow at the usual hour , or that the sea may ebb and flow , nor that they may be prevented of doing so . ( but we must distinguish such necessity and impossibility from a meer certainty that things shall either be , or not be . ) we are to pray in the present case , with a deep apprehension that this is perfectly a matter of liberty with the great god , and that as he took such a people to be his , of meer good pleasure , so it depends wholly upon his meer pleasure , that he continues the relation , when he might abandon and cast them off . it is further imply'd , 2. that the more serious and apprehensive among such a people , do understand it ( at sometimes more especially ) a thing very highly deserv'd , that god should abhor and reject them . the deprecation is a tacit acknowledgment , that the deprecated severity was reasonably to be feared , not only from sovereign power , but offended justice . this is indeed exprest in the next foregoing words . we acknowledge , o lord , our wickedness , and the iniquity of our fathers : for we have sinned against thee , do not abhor us . &c. so that this ought to be the sense of the supplicants in the present case , that they are herein perfectly at mercy , that if they be heard 't is undeserv'd compassion , if they be rejected 't is from most deserved displeasure . and if it were not exprest , yet the supplication must be understood to imply it . for when the great god hath vouchsafed to limit his sovereign power , and antecedent liberty by his promise and covenant , such a prayer were it self reflecting , and an affront , if it should proceed upon a supposition , or but intimate , that he should ever be inclin'd to do such a thing , without an excepted cause . such as that his rejecting them upon it , might consist with his being faithful to his word . when he values himself so much upon his faithfulness , and seems even to lay his very godhead upon it . as those strangely emphatical words import . deut. 7. 9. know therefore that the lord thy god , he is god , the faithful god , which keepeth covenant and mercy with them , that love him , and keep his commandments , to a thousand generations ; ( implying that he would even yield himself not to be god , if he did not in all points vindicate and demonstrate his faithfulness . ) nor indeed do we properly crave for any thing , but we therein disclaim a legal right to it , and acknowledge it to be rightfully in his power , to whom we apply our selves , to grant or deny , we make demands from justice , and are supplicants for mercy ▪ and with this sense the spirits of holy men have abounded , when they have taken upon them to intercede in the like case , as we see dan. 9. 7. o lord , righteousness belongeth unto thee , but unto us confusion of faces , as at this day . &c. and to the same purpose , ezra 9. nehem. 9. at large , and in many other places . q. d. our only resort , o lord , is to thy mercy . thou mightest most justly abhor and abandon us , and say to us , loammi , ye are none of my people , but in the multitude of thy tender compassions and mercies , do it not . it is again further to be collected , 3. that this is a thing which holy and good men do most vehemently dread and deprecate , viz. that god should thus abhor and reject a people so related to him . 't is that which the very genius , and spirit of holiness , in the sincere , regrets beyond all things for themselves . they have taken the lord to be their god , for ever and ever ; their hearts have been attempered to the tenour and constitution of an everlasting covenant , which they entered with no design , or thought of ever parting ; but that it should be the ground of an eternal relation . and the law of love written in their hearts , prompts them to desire the same thing for others too ; especially such to whom they have more especial endearing obligations ; and ( if it were possible ) that the whole body of a people to whom they are themselves united , might all be united to god upon the same termes , even by the same vital and everlasting union ; and therefore also , that same divine , and soul-enlarging love , being a living principle in them , makes them have a most afflicting sense of any discerned tendencies to a rupture , and separation that might prevent , and cut off the hope of his drawing still more and more of them into that inward living union , and inter-course with himself . these things it may suffice briefly to have noted from the petition in the text. that which i principally design'd , is what we have next coming under our view , viz. ii. the argument brought to enforce it ; for thy names sake . about which , what i shall observe , shall be with special reference to the case which the prophet refers unto , in his present use of it . viz. that in praying for a people professing the name of god , that he would not reject and cast them off , the fit and proper argument to be insisted on is that from his own name . ( see verse 1. 9. ) and here it will be requisite , 1. to have some very brief consideration of this argument in the general : though 2. we principally intend to treat of it , as it respects this present case . 1. in the general , we are to consider both what the name of god in it self imports , and what is signifi'd by using it as an argument in prayer . and , ( 1. ) as to what is imported by the name of god , in it self considered . we shall not trouble this discourse with the fancies of the rabbins ; of whom yet one very noted , soberly , and plainly tells us the name of god is wont to signifie his essence and truth , though the instance he gives shewes he means it of the nomen tetragrammaton ( the name jehovah ) which indeed more eminently doth so . to our purpose it is obvious , and sufficient , to note , that by his name , more generally , is signified both the peculiar excellencies of his nature , and being , which are himself , as the use of a mans name is to notifie the man. so when he is pleased himself to proclaim his own name , thus it runs ; the lord , the lord god , merciful and gracious , long-suffering , and abundant in goodness and truth , keeping mercy for thousands , forgiving iniquity , and transgression , and sin . &c. exod. 34. 6 , 7. and again , that by his name is meant his glory , and most especially the honour , and reputation of his government . for so too , a mans name signifies his fame and repute in the world ( as they whom our translation calls men of renown , gen. 6. 4. the hebrew text sayes only , ( but plainly , meaning the same thing , ) they were men of name . ) and if he be a publick person , a prince , and ruler over others , it must more peculiarly signifie his reputation and fame as such . thus moses designing to celebrate the unexceptionable equity , and awful majesty of the divine government , begins thus ; because i will publish the name of the lord : ascribe the greatness unto our god. he is the rock , his work is perfect , for all his wayes are judgment . deut. 32. 3 , 4. 2. as an argument used in prayer , it may accordingly either signifie the principle from which it is hoped and requested he should do what we desire , or the end for which . for as his name signifies his nature , which himself hath taught us primarily to conceive under the notion of goodness , mercy , love , in that forementioned exod. 34. 7. and 1 joh. 4. 16. so when we pray he would do this or that for his names sake , the meaning may be , that we request he would do it for his mercies sake , even in compliance with himself , and as it were to gratifie his own nature , which ( as nothing is more godlike ) is wont to be delighted in acts of goodness toward all , of compassion and mercy to the miserable , and of special favour to them that more peculiarly belong to him . and again , as his name signifies his glory , and principally the honour and reputation of his government ; so when we pray he would do this for his names sake , we further must be understood to mean , we desire he would do it to prevent his own dishonour , to augment his glory , and further to recommend himself to the world . and i conceive it must be meant in both these senses taken together , viz. that we pray he would do this , or that , both from himself , and for himself , from his goodness , ( or indeed the general perfection of his nature , ) and for his glory , and that he may represent himself such , as he truly is : but some circumstances in the coherent verses ( afterwards to be particularly noted ) seem to intimate that the honour and dignity of his government is here more directly meant . his glory is indeed the end which he cannot but design in all that he does . for inasmuch as he is said to do all things according to the counsel of his will ; eph. 1. his will must be principally of the end , which is ever the highest and most excellent good , and that can be no other than himself , and that only as he is capable of greatning himself by his own action ; which cannot be in respect of intrinsick excellency , that being already perfect and capable of no addition , therefore it must be in point of glory , and reputation only . and so , as it is said , having no greater to swear by , he sware by himself ; heb. 6. so having no greater to act for , it is most just , and most worthy of him , and but a god-like owning of himself , to act only to and for himself . and then whereas , having this constant , just and holy will , he doth all things according to counsel in pursuance of it , it must signifie that he ever takes the aptest , and most proper methods for the advancing of his own glory . the choosing the fittest and most suitable means to a fore-resolved end , being the proper business and design of consultation . though that be spoken of god but allusively , and after the manner of men , who by slow degrees , and by much deliberation arrive to the ( very imperfect ) knowledge of things , which at one view he perfectly beholds from all eternity . but also how the great god designs his own glory in all that he doth , we must take great care , be duly and decently understood . it were low and mean to think that the design of his mighty works , and accurate dispensations is only that he may fill mens minds with wonder , be highly thought of , admired , and celebrated in the world , which even a wise , and vertuous man would think an end much beneath him . but the glory of his name must be understood to be primarily an objective glory , that shines with a constant , and equal lustre in all his dispensations , whether men observe , or observe it not . and shines primarily to himself , so as that he hath the perpetual self-satisfaction of doing as truly becomes him , and what is in it self reputable , worthy of him , and apt to approve it self to a right mind , ( as his own ever is ) let men think of his wayes as they please . thus it was in his creating the world , when he had not yet made man , nor had him to look on , as a witness and admirer of his other glorious works , it was enough to him to be self-pleased that he saw them to be good , and that they had his own most just and complacential approbation . nor is he less pleased with himself , in his governing the world , than he was in the making of it . as also good men , by how much the more they excel in goodness , have herein the greatest resemblance and imitation of god , doing good for goodness sake , and pleasing themselves with the lustre and beauty of their own actions , shining to their own mind , and conscience , and their discerned conformity to the steady rules of righteousness ; without being concern'd , whether perverse and incompetent judges approve , or disapprove them . though also , because the blessed god delights in propagating blessedness , and imparting it to his intelligent creatures , he is pleased in recommending himself , so far , to their estimation and lōve , as is necessary to their own felicity , wherein also he doth as it were but enjoy his own goodness ( as his felicity can only be in himself ) and is pleased with the self-satisfying beauty , pleasantness , and glory of it . yet further also we are to consider that though it be most sutable to the majesty , and the independent , self-sufficient fulness of god , to take pleasure only in the real goodness , excellency , decency , and glory of whatever he is , and doth . yet it belongs to , and becomes the dutiful affection of his people towards him , to be deeply concern'd , how he is thought and spoken of in the world . dishonourable reflections upon him are therefore as a sword in their bones . what cannot hurt him , ought to wound them . which dutiful love also cannot but make them highly covet that his name might be known , and renowned all the world over , knowing that the reproach that is no real damage , is a wrong to him ; and that universal praise is his right , though it cannot be an advantage . and this love to his name they cannot more fitly express , than in praying to him . and here we are further to note that this argument , thus generally considered hath , when we use it in prayer , a twofold aspect , i. e. we are to consider it as an argument both to god , and to our selves . to god , as whereby we expect to prevail with him to hear our prayers . to our selves , as whereby we are to be urg'd , and excited to pray with the more importunity , and confidence , so as not to faint in prayer . thus much as to what is more general . we are now 2. to consider it in reference to this present case . where we are to shew , ( 1. ) how the name of god may be understood to be concern'd , in his abhorring , so as to forsake a people more peculiarly related to him . ( 2. ) the fit and right use of this argument in deprecating his doing so . 1. how the name of god may be understood concern'd in this matter . taking his name to signifie not only his nature , and the attributes of his being themselves , but also the glory and lustre of those his attributes , especially , which are to have a more principal exercise , and demonstration in the course of his government over mankind , and more particularly , over such a select , peculiar people . it may seem greatly to reflect upon those his governing attributes , and detract from the glory of them , and consequently to lessen the honour and dignity of his government , if having taken such a people into near , and peculiar relation to him , he should grow into that dislike of them , as at length , quite to reject and cast off them , as if he now disdain'd the relation . that such a contemptuous rejection of this people is the thing here deprecated by the prophet , is evident ( besides what hath been noted of the true import of the word rendred abhor , ) from other expressions in the context , that plainly speak this very sense , and shew this to be the matter about which he was so deeply concern'd . hast thou utterly rejected judah ? hath thy soul loathed zion ? ver. 19. and then presently is added ( to the same sense ) do not abhor us , &c. as when a mans heart is full of a thing , and the sense of it abounds , he varies expressions , and from the abundance of the heart , as from a fountain , the matter streames from him several wayes . his iterations , and varied formes of speech to the same purpose , shew what urg'd him , and about what his mind was engaged and taken up . 't is plain that , at this time , that which this holy man was in this agony for , was not a lighter , temporary anger , but so settled a displeasure , as upon which a final rejection was likely to ensue . and he apprehends the name of god to be concern'd in it . which it appears also lay with great weight upon his spirit , our iniquities testifie against us , but do thou it ( i. e. save us , as afterwards ) for thy names sake . verse 7. and again , ( verse 9. ) thou , o lord , art in the midst of us , and we are called by thy name ; leave us not . which also shewes how he understood it to be concern'd , viz. as the great god was not only the common ruler of the world , but a governour over them , in a way , and upon termes that were very peculiar , viz. by covenant and compact . such whereof the nuptial contract , is the usual resemblance ; by which the related persons mutually pass into each others right , and whereupon , the inferiour person in the relation takes the name of the superiour , as isa. 4. 1. we will eat our own bread , and wear our own apparel , only let us be called by thy name . so the great god entering that covenant with a people ; [ i will be your god , and you shall be my people , ] speakes of himself as conjugally related to them . thou shalt be called by a new name , which the mouth of the lord shall name . thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the lord ; and a royal diadem in the hand of thy god. thou shalt no more be termed , forsaken ; neither shall thy land any more be termed , desolate : but thou shalt be called hephzi-bah , and thy land beulah : for the lord delighteth in thee , and thy land shall be married . isa. 62. 4. thy maker is [ thine husband . ] isaiah 54. 5. who being the governing relative , the phrase of being called by his name imports the agreed , voluntary subjection of such a people to his government , and his vouchsafing to be their governour , upon the special termes of his own covenant , whereupon another prophet , pleading for his special favour , and protection unto this people , against their heathen adversaries , uses this phrase . we are thine , thou never barest rule over them , they were not called by thy name . isa. 63. 19. therefore this prophet understood his name to be concern'd , if he should reject them , as it signifi'd his honour and reputation as their governour by covenant , which further appeares by the immediate connection of these words do not abhor us for thy names sake , with those that next follow , do not disgrace the throne of thy glory : remember break not thy covenant with us , q. d. thou hast covenanted to be our governour , and hast erected , accordingly , thy glorious throne among us . how canst thou sustain , or endure to break thy covenant , and dishonour thy own throne ! to draw a disreputation upon thy government ; or cast a dark shadow upon those famed excellencies , which were wont to recommend thee in the sight of all nations as the best ruler that ever people had ; and might make the sons of men apprehend it the most desirable thing in all the world to be , on the same terms , under thy government ! particularly of his attributes that have more special relation to his government , such as these may seem ( and have been apprehended ) liable to be reflected on in this case . 1. his power , as if he had designed to do some great thing for them , which he could not bring about , and therefore he casts them off , and will seem no further concern'd for them . or as if his power were confin'd within such limits , that it would suffice him to destroy them once for all , but not constantly to preserve and prosper them . so when god threatned to smite his people israel with the pestilence , and disinherit them . ( numb . 14. 12. ) moses urges on their behalf , then the egyptians shall hear it , ( for thou broughtest up this people in thy might from among them ) and they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land : for they have heard that thou , lord , art among this people , that thou lord art seen face to face , and that thy cloud standeth over them , and that thou goest before them , by day-time in a pillar of a cloud , and in a pillar of fire by night . now if thou shalt kill all this people , as one man ; then the nations which heard the fame of thee will speak , saying , because the lord was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them , therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness . ( verse 13. 14 , 15 , 16. ) q. d. that thou hast peculiarly own'd them , and concern'd thy self for them cannot be hid . it hath made a great noise in the world , and been the common talk of all nations , and made a more special impression of awe and terrour upon the egyptians ( against whom thou first tookest part with them ) that thou wast usually seen face to face among them , that most extraordinary tokens of a divine presence , the miraculous pillar of a cloud by day , and of fire by night , were constantly afforded them . there is no coming off ( so far and so openly hast thou been concern'd for them ) but this construction will be made of it , that though very great difficulties have been overcome for them , there was a prospect of yet greater , that could not be overcome , and therefore , that whereas less power was required to make a present end of them , thou didst rather choose to do that . and this consideration seems sometimes to have weigh'd much with god himself , as we find he is brought in speaking deut. 32. 26 , 27. i said i would scatter them into corners , i would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men ; were it not that i feared the wrath of the enemy , lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely , and lest they should say our hand is high , &c. whence also 2. his wisdom must , by consequence , be exposed too ; that this was not foreseen , and considered , when he first undertook their conduct , and espoused their interest . 3. his goodness and benignity , his propensity to do good , and bestow favours , that it was not so unexhausted a fountain as might seem sutable to a god ▪ and to him , whom his wonderful noted acts of favour towards that people , had made to be vogued among the nations as the only one . 4. his clemency , and unaptness to be provok't . the great commendation of rulers . who ought to be legum similes , as little mov'd with passions , as the lawes they govern by . a thing especially to be expected in a divine ruler , and most agreeable to the serenity of the nature of god. according not only to what men are commonly wont to apprehend of his nature , but what he had been pleased to declare of himself , as is alledged numbers 14. 17 , 18. let the power of my lord be great ( intimating that to appear hurried with passions would seem an un-god-like impotency ) and 't is added , according as thou hast spoken , saying the lord is long-suffering and of great mercy , &c. whereupon therefore 5. his sincerity , another great excellency in a governour , seemes liable to be suspected too . that he should not be what he seem'd , had given out of himself , or was taken , at least , to be the import and signification of his former dispensations . which is the scope of moses's reasoning , exod. 32. 12. wherefore should the egyptians speak and say , for mischief did he bring them out , to slay them in the mountains , and to consume them from the face of the earth ? as if he had said , why shall the egyptian enemy have occasion to apprehend , that god did only hide mischievous intentions towards this people , under an appearance and shew of kindness to them ; that he only drew them hereby to trust in him , and commit themselves to his care and protection that he might , when he saw his time , the more please and as it were sport himself in having deceiv'd them , and in disappointing and destroying them . that therefore the god of israel was not such a one as he seem'd willing to be thought , nor a relation to him so covetable a thing . or else 6. his constancy , and faithfulness to himself . he may be thought in this case more mutable , and unsteady in his own designs than is worthy of a god. even balaams notion of the deity could not allow him to think either , first , that as a man he could ly , or next , that as the son of man he could repent . numb . 23. the former he thought not agreeable to the sincerity , nor the latter to the constancy which he reckon'd must belong to the nature of god. that he should appropriate a people to himself , remarkably own them by a long-continued series of eminent favours ; and at length seem to grow weary of them , and his own design , and throw them off ! how un-godlike a levity doth this seem to import ? and how contrary to the encouragement which we sometimes find given to such a people , even from the regard he would have to his own name in this respect , the lord will not forsake his people , for his great names sake : because it hath pleased the lord to make you his people . 1 sam. 12. 22. 7. his righteousness in reference to his promise and covenant with such a people , or his faithfulness unto them . for , as considering only his purpose , and his having begun a design , his pursuing of it is but faithfulness ( or a being true ) to himself and his own design ; so when his purpose hath exprest it self in a promise to a people ; to make it good is to be faithful and true to them . and is therefore a part of righteousness , his promise having created a right in them to whom he made it . by his purpose he is only a debtor to himself , by his promise he is a debtor to them too . upon this account his name seems liable to be reflected on , if he should reject such a people . as the words following the text intimate . do not abhor us for thy names sake , do not disgrace the throne of thy glory , break not thy covenant with us . and such is the import of moses's plea , numb . 14. 16. because the lord was not able to bring this people into the land [ which he sware ] unto them , therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness . which pleading of his he himself also recites deut. 9. 28. with little variation ; and implies in it , that if god should reject this people , it would turn greatly to the prejudice of his name and repute in the world , in respect of his truth and fidelity which made so great a part of his name and glory . that in his anger he neither regarded his word , nor his oath . no bond was sacred with him . than which , what could make a prince more inglorious , and infamous ? and how gladly would those more implacable enemies out of whose hands he had rescued this people , catch at such an occasion of traducing , and defaming him ! we see then how the name of god , may appear concern'd in this matter . it seems indeed in all these respects very deeply concern'd , and much exposed to obloquy , if he reject such a people . though if he should , it can never be , but upon such termes , as that all that can be objected , will appear to be but groundless cavil , and calumny , and admit of easie answer as we shall see anon . in the mean time , while the matter admits of any hope , we are 2. to shew the fitness and right use of this argument for the preventing of it . we are indeed manifestly to distinguish these two things . the general fitness of this argument to be used , and wherein stands the fit and due use of it . as any thing else , though in it self very fit to be used for such and such purposes ( as meat and drink , for instance , or learning , or speech ) may yet notwithstanding be used very unfitly . therefore we shall speak to both these severally , and shew . 1. how fit an argument this is to be insisted on in prayer , even to the purpose we are now speaking of . 2. what is requisite to the due and right use of it to this purpose . 1. that it is in it self an argument very fit to be insisted on in prayer , to this purpose , or to any other in reference whereto 't is fit for us to pray , is most evident ; for it is most likely to prevail with god , being an argument taken from himself , and most fit to move and affect us ; for it hath most weight in it . and we ought in prayer as much as is possible , to conform our minds to gods. so as not only to pray for the things which we apprehend him most likely to grant , but upon the same grounds , and with the same design , which he must be supposed to have in granting them , and that there be but one end and aim common to him and us . vve are told that if we ask any thing according to his will he heareth us . john 5. 14. this is to ask according to his will , in the highest and most certain sense . for the first and most fixed object of any will whatsoever is the end : of any right will , the best and most excellent end , which can be but one . the divine will we are sure , is ever right , and must so far as it is known be directive , and a rule to ours . concerning the end it is most certainly known , he doth all things ( as he made all things ) for himself . concerning the meanes and way to his end , we are often ignorant , and in doubt ; and when we are , we then are to will nothing but upon condition , that it will conduce to the great and common end of all things , and do interpretatively , retract and unpray every petition in the very making it , which shall be really repugnant thereto . nothing can move god besides . he is eternally self-mov'd . our attempt will be both undutiful , and vain , if we suffer our spirits to be engag'd , and mov'd by any thing which will not be a motive unto him . therefore no argument can be fit besides this , for his own name , or that cannot be reduc't to it . but the fitness of this argument may be more distinctly shewn and discerned from the following considerations viz. that it is most sutable 1. to the object of prayer ; the glorious ever-blessed god. to whom it belongs as the appropriate , most incommunicable prerogative of the godhead to be the last , as well as the first , the alpha , and the omega ; the end , as he is the authour of all things . of whom , and through whom , and to whom all things are ; and unto whom must be all glory for ever . rom. 11. 36. so that to pray to him that he would do this or that , finally and ultimately for any thing else than his own name ; is humbly to supplicate him that he would resign the godhead ; and quit his throne to this , or that creature . 2. to the right subject of prayer , considered whether according to its original , or renewed state. according to primitive nature , or renewing grace . to primitive nature , which was no doubt pointed upon god as the last end . otherwise a creature had been made with aversion to him , and in the highest pitch of enmity and rebellion . since there can be no higher controversie than about the last end . and to renewing grace , the design whereof , as it is such , can be no other than to restore us to our original state. to bring us back , and state us where , and as we were , in that absolute subordination to god that was original and natural to us . vvhich therefore stands in repentance towards god , as our end , and faith in our lord jesus christ , as our way , wherein alone we can acceptably return and render our selves back unto him . we through the law are dead to the law , being humbled , broken , macerated , mortifi'd by it , we are become dead to it , exempt from its execrating condemning power and dominion , that we might live to god. gal. 2. 19. that a new divine life and nature might spring up in us , aiming at god , tending and working intirely , and only towards him . have been reduc't to a chaos , to utter confusion , or even brought to nothing , that we might be ereated anew , with a reimplanted disposition to serve the ends and purposes for which we were first made . and therefore are to yield our selves to god as those that are alive from the dead . rom. 6. 13. i. e. ( as verse 11. ) alive to god through jesus christ. in him we are created to good workes ( that are principally to be estimated from the end ) which god had before ordained that we should walk in them . ephes. 2. 10. thus we are reconcil'd to god. the controversie is taken up , which was about no lower thing than the deity . who should be god , he or we . whether we should live and be for our selves , or him . if any man be in christ , he is a new creature , old things are past away , behold , all things are become new ; and all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ. 2 cor. 5. 17 , 18. hereupon this is , in prayer , the only proper genuine connatural breath of the new creature , the most inward habitual sense of a devoted soul to thee , o lord , be all things , mayest thou ever be the all in all . let the creation and all things be nothing , otherwise than in thee , and for thee ! 3. to the mediatour in whose name we pray . who never undertook that part of mediating between god and us , with a design to alienate , and give away from god the natural rights of the godhead ; but to assert them to the highest , to repair unto god , and expiate by his blood the encroachments we had made upon them , and provide we might do so no more . that we might be forgiven what was past , and be dutiful and subject for the future . his principal design was to salve the injur'd honour and dignity of the divine government , and to reconcile therewith our impunity , and felicity , to make them consist . he was therefore to redeem us to god by his blood , rev. 5. 9. how immodest , and absurd a confidence were it , for any to make use of the mediators name in prayer against his principal , and most important design ? 4. to the spirit of prayer who , we are told rom. 8. 27. makes intercession for the saints 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . vve read , according to the will of god , but no more is in the text than according to god. i. e. in subserviency to him , and his interest , so as that in prayer , by the dictate of that spirit , they supreamly mind the things of god , and are most intent upon his concernments , and upon their own only in subordination to his . as it may well be supposed his own spirit will be true to him , and not act the hearts which it governs , otherwise ; and that the prayers that are from himself , and of his own inspiring , will be most entirely loyal , and import nothing but duty and devotedness to him . 5. to the most perfect model and platform of prayer , given us by our lord himself . in which the first place is given to the petition hallowed be thy name , and the two next are about gods concernments , before any are mentioned of our own . so that the things we are to desire , are digested into two tables , as the decalogue is containing the things we are to do and those that respect god ( as was sit ) set first . 6. to the constant 〈◊〉 of the prayers of holy men in scripture . vve have seen how earnestly moses presses this argument in the 〈◊〉 places , exod. 32. and numb . 14. and so doth samuel express his confidence in it , when he promises , upon their desire , to pray for the trembling people of israel . 1 sam. 12. 22 , 23. the lord will not forsake his people [ for his great names sake ] because it hath pleased the lord to make you his people . moreover as for me , god forbid that i should sin against the lord , in ceasing to pray for you . and this was a pair whom god hath himself dignifi'd as persons of great excellency in prayer , and whose prayers he would have a value for , if for any mans . though moses and samuel stood before me , &c. jer. 15. 1. thus also doth joshua insist , upon occasion of that rebuke israel met with before ai josh. 7. 8 , 9. o lord , what shall i say , when israel turneth their backs before their enemies ? for the canaanites , and all the inhabitants of the land shall hear of it , and shall environ us round , and cut off our name from the earth : [ and what wilt thou do unto thy great name ? ] and so doth daniel plead ( one of a famous triad too , of potent wrestlers in prayer . ezek 14. 14. ) o lord hear , o lord forgive , o lord hearken and do : defer not for thine own sake , o my god ; for thy city and thy people [ are called by thy name ] dan. 9. 19. 7. to the highest example and patern of prayer ( fit to be mentioned apart ) our lord himself . vvho , in some of his last agonies , praying father save me from this hour , represses that innocent voice . but therefore came i to this hour , and addes father glorifie thy name . joh. 12. 27 , 28. intimating that the summe of his desires did resolve into that one thing , and contented to suffer what was most grievous to himself that so that might be done which should be finally most honourable to that great name . 8. to the design and end of prayer , which is partly and principally to be considered as an act of worship , an homage to the great god , and so the design of it is to honour him . and partly as a meanes , or way of obtaining for our selves the good things we pray for , which therefore is another ( but an inferiour ) end of prayer . whether we consider it under the one notion , or the other , or propound to our selves the one or the other end in praying ; 't is most agreeable to pray after this tenour , and to insist most upon this argument in prayer . for first , do we intend prayer as an homage to the great god , and to give him his due glory in praying to him . how fitly doth it fall in with our design , when not only our praying it self but the matter we chiesly pray for have the same scope and end . we pray that we may glorifie god. and the thing we more principally desire of him in prayer , is that he would glorifie himself , or that his name be glorified . and square all other desires by this measure , desiring nothing else but what may be , ( or as it is ) subservient hereto . and secondly , if we intend and design any thing of advantage to our selves . we can only expect to be heard , and to obtain it upon this ground . the great god deales plainly with us in this , and hath expresly declared that if he hear , and graciously answer us , it will only be upon this consideration , as is often inculcated , ezekiel 36. 22. therefore say unto the house of israel , thus saith the lord god , i do not this for your sakes , o house of israel , but for mine holy names sake , and i will sanctifie my great name , which was profaned among the heathen , and again , not for your sakes do i this , saith the lord god , be it known unto you ; be ashamed and confounded for your own waies , o house of israel . verse 32. this every way then appears a most fit argument to be insisted on in prayer ; and to this purpose as well as to any other . many of the instances mentioned from scripture , having an express and particular reference to this very case , of praying for a people related to god , and upon whom his name was called . it remaines then to shew 2. what is requisite to the right and due use of this argument unto this purpose . where we may summe up all in two words , sincerity and submission . the former whereof belongs to this case in common with all others , wherein we can use this argument , or ( which is all one ) wherein we can pray at all . the other hath somewhat a more peculiar reference to this case considered apart by it self . and indeed that the one and the other of these are requisite in the use of this argument , are both of them corollaries from the truth it self we have been hitherto insisting on , and that have the very substance and spirit of it in them . for if this be an argument fit to be used in prayer at all , it is obvious to collect , that it ought to be used with great sincerity in any case , and with much submission , especially , in such a case as this . 1. it is requisite we use this argument with sincerity . i. e. that we have a sense in our hearts correspondent to the use of it , or that the impression be deeply inwrought into our spirits of the glorious excellency of the name of god. so as it be really the most desireable thing in our eyes , that it be magnifi'd and rendred most glorious whatsoever becomes of us , or of any people or nation under heaven . many have learnt to use the words for thy names sake , as a formula , a plausible phrase , a customary , fashionable form of speech , when first , there is no inward sense in their hearts that doth subesse , lies under the expression , so as that with them it can be said to signifie any thing , or have any meaning at all . or , secondly , they may have much another meaning from what these words do import , a very low self-regarding one . as when in praying for a people that bear this name , of whom themselves are a part , these words are in their mouths , but their hearts are really solicitous for nothing but their own little concernments , their wealth , and peace , and ease , and fleshly accommodations . apprehending a change of religion cannot fall out among such a people , but in conjunction with what may be dangerous to themselves in these mean respects . whereupon it may fall out that they will pray earnestly , cry aloud , be full of concern , vehemently importunate , and all the noise , and cry mean nothing but their own corn , wine , and oile . they mention the name of the lord , but not in truth . it appeares the servants of god in the use of this argument have been toucht in their very soules with so deep and quick a sense of the dignity and honour of the divine name , that nothing else hath seem'd considerable with them , or worth the regarding besides . as in those pathetic . expostulations , what wilt thou do to thy great name ? what will the egyptians say ? &c. this alone , apart from their own concernments , was the weighty argument with them . for it weighed nothing with moses on the contrary , to be told , i will make of thee a great nation . to have himself never so glorious a name , to be spread in the world and transmitted to all after ages as the root and father of a mighty people , was a light thing in comparison of the injury and disreputation that would be done to gods own name , if he should desert or destroy this people . or , thirdly , they may have a very wicked meaning . the name of god may be invok't , religious solemnities used as a pretence and colour to flagitious actions . in nomine domini — &c. most execrable villanies have been prefac't with that sacred adorable name . as when a fast was proclaim'd , but a rapine upon naboths vineyard was the thing design'd . and the awful name of god was indifferently used in prayer and in perjury to serve the same vile purpose . in which soever of those degrees this venerable name is insincerely mentioned , we ought to account a great requisite is wanting to a right use of it as an argument in prayer . and should consider both the absurdity and the iniquity of our so misusing it . 1. the absurdity , for who can reasonably think him capable of hearing our prayers , whom at the same time he thinkes incapable of knowing our hearts ? am i consistent with my self when i invocate , worship , trust in him as a god , whom i think i can impose upon by a false shew ? is it likely , if i can deceive him , that he can help and succour me ? 2. the iniquity . for this can be no low ( though it be not the peculiar ) sense of taking the name of the lord our god in vain . and we know with what awful words that great precept is inforced . the lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain . nor can any man devise to put a greater affront upon him than to approach him with insincerity . for it is to use him as a senseless idol , and signifies as if i counted him as the vanities of the gentiles , one of their inanimate or brutal gods ; denies his omniscience to discern , and his justice and power to revenge the indignity , all at once . and what now is to be expected from such a prayer wherein i both fight with my self and him at the same time . with my self , for the same object that i worship , i affront in the same act , and with him ; for my worship is but seeming and the affront real . such a disagreement with my self were enough to blast my prayer . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the man with two soules , jam 1. the double-minded man is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unstable ( inconsistent with himself the word signifies ) and let not such a man think saith the apostle , that he shall receive any thing of the lord. much more when his prayer is not only not acceptable to god , but offensive . and by which he is so far from pleasing , that he provokes . it is then of unspeakable concernment to us in the use of this argument , that we well understand our selves . let us search our hearts . and see that we mean as we speak , that we do not pretend a concernedness , and zeal for the name of god , when he that knowes all things , knowes that we lye ; and that we do but flatter him with our mouth , and lye unto him with our tongues when our heart is not right with him . psal. 78. 36 , 37. that we do not seem to be in great perplexity about the name and glory of god , when we are quite unconcern'd what becomes of his name , are only solicitous lest we should suffer our selves , afraid of being undone , of losing our estates , or of being driven from our dwellings , or perhaps but of being abridg'd somewhat of our conveniencies , and more delectable enjoyments . as if ( not the fortunes of cesar , and the empire but ) the mighty and all comprehensive name of the great lord of heaven and earth did depend upon our being rich , or quiet , and at our ease , and having our sense and fancy gratifi'd . as if the heavens rested upon our shoulders , and the frame of the universe were sustained by us , who our selves need such pitiful supports , lean upon shadows , and if they fail us are ready to sink and drop into nothing ! 2. submission is highly requisit especially in a case of this nature , i. e. we are to submit to his judgment the disposal both of his concernments , which this argument directly intends , and our own , which we are too apt , indirectly to connect with his , so as to be more principally solicitous about them . 1. his concernment in this case must ( as is fit ) be submitted with all humble deference to his own judgment , it being really a doubtful case , not whether it be a desireable thing , that the name and honour of god should be preserved and advanced , or whether we should desire it ? but whether his continuing such a people in visible relation to himself , or rejecting and casting them off , will be more honourable and glorious to him ? where the doubt lies , there must be the submission , i. e. this matter must be referr'd to himself , it being such as whereof he only is the competent judge , and not we . the thing to be judg'd of is not whether occasion may not be taken by men of short discourse , and of profane minds , to think and speak reflectingly of such a piece of providence , viz. if a people whom god had long visibly owned and favoured should be , at length , rejected with detestation , and exposed to ruine . 't is like the heathen nations were very apt so to insult , when god did finally abandon and give up that people of the jewes , and make them cease at once to be his people , and any people at all . as we know they did before , when they gained any temporary advantage upon them , upon their being able to spoil their countrey , to reduce them to some distress , and straiten their chief city with a siege , as if they had them totally in their power , they presently draw the god of israel into an ignominious comparison with the fictitious deities of other vanquished countreys . the gods of hamath , arphad , sepharvaim isa. 36. 19. ( who are also stiled their kings as is thought 2 king. 19. 13. though the destruction of their kings may also admit to be meant as an argument of the impotency of their gods. and they are mentioned distinctly , as perhaps was not observed , in both those cited bookes of scripture , where that history is more largely recorded ; 2 kings 18. 34. chap. 19. 13. and isa. 36. 19. chap. 37. 12 , 13 ) as if he were able to do no more for the protection of his people , than they for their worshippers . and so , for a few moments , he remaines under the censure of being an impotent god. but that momentary cloud he knew how soon to dispel , and make his glory shine out so much the more brightly unto , not only a convincing , but an amazing confutation of so prophane folly ; yielded the short sighted adversary a temporary victory , which he could presently redeem out of their hands , that he might the more gloriously triumph in their surprizing , unfeared ruine ; and so let them , and all the world see that those advantages were not extorted , but permitted upon considerations that lay out of their reach to comprehend ; and that they proceeded not from want of power , but the excellency of other perfections , which would in due time be understood by such as were capable of making a right judgement . his wisdom , holiness and justice which appeared in putting a people so related to him , under seasonable rebukes and discountenance , when the state of the case , and the methods of his government required it . and so much the rather because they were so related . according to that you only have i known of all the families of the earth , therefore i will punish you for all your iniquities . amos 3. 2. the matter here to be disputed , was not whether it did not occasion a present dishonour to the god of israel , to let the enemy have such a seeming ground of spiteful suggestions concerning him , as if he were impotent , or variable , or false to them that had intrusted themselves to his protection and care ; but whether that dishonour were not recompenst with advantage , by the greater glory that accrued to him afterwards . and this also is the matter that must come under judgement , if at length he should finally cast off such a people ; whether upon the whole , all things being considered and taken together , it be not more for the honour of his name , and the reputation of his rectoral attributes , to break off such a relation to them , than continue it . wherein he is not concern'd to approve himself to the opinion of fooles , or half-witted persons : and whose shallow judgment too , is govern'd by their disaffection ; but to such as can consider . perhaps , to such as shall hereafter rise up in succeeding ages . for he is not in haste . his steady duration , commensurate with all the successions of time , and which runs into eternity , can well admit of his staying till this or that frame , and contexture of providence be compleated , and capable of being more entirely viewed at once , and till calmer minds , and men of less interested passions shall come to have the considering of it . and in the mean time he hath those numberless myriads of wise and holy sages in the other world , the continual observers of all his dispensations , that behold them with equal , unbyast minds , and from the evidence of the matter , give their concurrent approbation , and applause , with all the true members of the church on earth , great and marvellous are thy works , lord god almighty , just , and true are thy wayes , thou king of saints . rev. 15. 3. but it is enough , and much more considerable to approve himself to himself ; and that all his dispensations are guided according to the steady , eternal reason of things , which is an inviolable law to him , from which he never departs , and from the perpetual uniform agreement of all his providences whereto , an indubious glory will result unto him , that will never admit the least eclipse , or ever be capable of being drawn into dispute . and according whereto it will appear , if ever he forsake such a people , the concernment of his name and glory in the matter , was the great inducement to it , that he did even owe it to himself , and had not , otherwise , done right to his own name . and whatsoever might be argued from it to the contrary will be found capable of a clear and easie answer , so as that the weight of the argument will entirely ly on this side . for 1. as to his power , he hath reason to be ever secure concerning the reputation of that , having given , and knowing how further to give , when he pleases , sufficient demonstrations of it , otherwayes . nor was it ever his design to represent himself as a being of meer power , which of it self , hath nothing of moral excellency in it , nor do the appearances of it tend to beget that true notion of god in the minds of men which he designed to propagate ; otherwise than as the glory of it should shine in conjunction with that of his other attributes that are more peculiarly worthy of god , more appropriate to him , and more apt to represent him to the world as the most sutable object of a religious veneration . whereas meer power is capable of having place in an un-intelligent nature , and in an intelligent tainted with the most odious impurities . he never desir'd to be known among men by such a name , as should signifie power only un-accompani'd with wisdom , holiness , &c. and 2. for his wisdom it is seen in pursuing valuable ends , by methods sutable to them , and becoming himself . it became the absolute soveraignty of a god , to select a nation , that he would favour more than other nations ; but would ill have agreed with his wisdom to have bound himself absolutely to them , so to favour them , howsoever they should demean themselves . 3. his bounty and goodness , though it found them no better than other people , was to have made them better . nor was it any disreputation to his goodness to divert its current , when they , after long tryal , do finally resist its design . 4. his clemency must not be made liable to be mistaken for inadvertency , or neglect . and to give the world cause to say , tush god seeth not , neither is there knowledge in the most high . nor for indifferency , and unconcernedness what men do , as if good and bad were alike to him . and that such as do evil were good in the sight of the lord , and he delighted in them ; words , wherewith he sometime complain'd that men wearied him mal. 2. 17. he is not to redeem the reputation of one attribute by the real prejudice of another ; i. e. the offense and grievance to it , which acting directly against it ( if that were possible ) would occasion . 5. his sincerity will be highly vindicated and glorifi'd , when it shall be seen that there is nothing more of severity in such a dispensation , when ever it takes place , than was plainly exprest in his often repeated fore-warnings and threatnings , even long before . and therefore 6. he is herein but constant to himself , and should be more liable to the charge of mutability , and inconstancy , if finally , when the case should so require , he should not take this course . and 7. as to his righteousness , and fidelity towards such a people , even those to whom he more strictly oblig'd himself than ever he did to any particular nation besides . let but the tenour of his covenant with them be consulted , and see whether he did not reserve to himself a liberty of casting them off , if they revolted from him . and whether these were not his express termes that he would be with them while they were with him , but that if they forsook him , he would forsake them also . therefore much more is he at liberty , as to any other people , to whom he never made so peculiar promises of external favours as he did to this people . nor hereupon can any thing be pleaded from his name , or that is within the compass of its signification , with any certainty , that it shall conclude , and be determining on the behalf of such a people . there is a real , great doubt in the case , whether the argument may not weigh more the other way . and whether the wickedness of such a people may not be grown to such a prodigious excess , that whereas none of these his mentioned attributes do make it necessary , he should continue his relation , some other , that could not be alledg'd for it , may not be alledg'd against it , and do not make it necessary he should break it off . the glory of his holiness ( which if we consider it in it self , and consider the value , and stress he is wont to put upon it , we might even reckon the prime glory of the deity ) is not , perhaps , to be sufficiently salv'd and vindicated without , at length , quite abandoning and casting them off . there seems to be somewhat very awful and monitory in those most pleasant , gracious words , and that breathe so sweet a savour . but now they desire a better countrey , that is , an heavenly : wherefore god is not ashamed to be called their god. heb. 11. 16. viz. that if a people that have long enjoy'd brighter discoveries of heaven , and the way to it , do yet generally bear a disaffected heart to the design of that revelation , remain habitually terrene , like the rest of the world , govern'd by the spirit of it , ingulft in the common pollutions , sensualities , impieties of the wicked atheistical inhabitants of this earth . god will bë even ashamed to be called their god. he will reckon it ignominious , and a reproach to him ( though he will save such as are sincere among them ) to stand visibly related to such a people as their god. what to have them for a peculiar people , that are not peculiar ? to distinguish them that will not be distinguisht ? to make a visible difference by external favours and priviledges , where there is no visible difference in practice and conversation , that might signifie a more excellent spirit . this is not only to lose the intended design , but to have it turn to a disadvantage . and whom he expected to be for a name and a praise to him , a crown and a royal diadem , to become to him a dishonour and a blot . and we do find that such severities as have been used towards such a people , are declared to have been so , even for the sake of his name , jer. 34. 16 , 17. but ye turned and polluted my name , — therefore — i will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth . and when therefore a remnant of this people , rebelliously , against gods express word , went down into egypt , preferring a precarious subsistence , under tyranny and idolatry , at the cruel mercy of a long since baffled enemy before the true religion , and liberty , under the divine protection , see how god expresses his resentment of this dishonour done to his name , and the affront offered to his government . jer. 44. 26. therefore hear ye the word of the lord , all judah that dwell in the land of egypt , behold , i have sworn by my great name , saith the lord , that my name , shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of judah , in all the land of egypt , saying ; the lord god liveth . and when the time drew nearer of gods total rejection of that people , as in the time of malachi's prophecies ; they are charg'd with despising and profaning his name . chap. 1. verse 6. and 12. and are told god had now no pleasure in them , nor would accept an offering at their hands , but that his name should be great among the gentiles ( verse 10 , 11. ) even from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same , intimating that ( excepting those few that thought on his name , chap. 3. 16. and that feared his name , chap. 4. 2 , who he sayes should be his , when he made up his jewels , and the sun of righteousness should rise upon them ) he would have no more to do with them , but in the day that should burn as an oven , ( when the whole hemisphere should be as one fiery vault ) they should be burnt up as stubble , and neither root nor branch be left of them , and all this upon the concern he had for his name , which was reproacht by such a peoples pretending to it . whereupon , they had been threatned chap. 2. verse 2. that except they did give glory to his name , he would curse them , and their blessings , corrupt their seed , spread dung upon their faces , even that of their solemn feasts , and they should be taken away therewith . it is therefore possible the whole force of this argument may lye against us , in praying for such a people , i say , it is possible it may , whether actually it do or no , we can never be competent judges . our knowledge is not large enough , nor our minds enough comprehensive . our wisdom is folly it self to the estimating such a case . we are capable of pronouncing hastily , it would in this , or that particular respect , be dishonourable , and an obscurement of gods name , if he should cast off england . but he that pronounces hastily , considers but a few things , and lookes but a little way . the question is whether all things compared and considered together , that belong to such a case , it will be more honourable to god or dishonourable , and more or less recommend him to intelligent minds , get him a greater and more excellent name and renown in the world , when it shall be enlightned to consider the case , to break off his relation or continue it ? we know his own judgment is according to truth , and hope he will judge the way , that will be more favourable to us . but we cannot be certain of it . 't is a case that requires the judgment of his all comprehending mind , whose prospect is large every way ; and takes in all the decencies and indecencies that escape our notice . as we know in viewing things with the eye , a quick and clear sight ( especially helpt with a fit instrument ) will discern many things , so fine , and minute , as to be , to a duller eye , altogether invisible . it is the work of wisdom , and judgment , to discern exactly the critical seasons , and junctures of time , when to do this or that . and the wise god in his dispensations , especially towards a great community , or the collective body of a people , takes usually a vast compass of time , within which to select the apt and fit season , for this or that act , whether of severity , or mercy towards them . and it is more fit , as by the coincidence of things , it contributes more to the greater glory of his name . we cannot discern the things , the concurrence whereof , make this a fitter season than another , that such an event should be plac't just there , within so large a tract of time . what mortal man , or indeed what finite mind , was capable of judging some hundreds of years before , what was just wanting to the fulness of the amorites sin , so as that it should be more honourable , and glorious to the divine justice , not to animadvert thereon , till that very time when he did it . or why he chose that time which he pitcht upon , wherein to come down , and deliver his israel from their egyptian oppressours . or when ( without inspiration ) to be able to say the time to favour zion , even the set time is come . nor are we to resolve the matter only into the absoluteness of his sovereignty , upon the account whereof he may take what time he pleases , but the depth of his hidden wisdom , for he doth all things according to the counsel of his will , having reasons to himself , which our shallow , dim , sight perceives not , and whereof we are infinitely less able to make a sure judgment , than a countrey idiot of reasons of state . he may ( as to the present case ) think it most fit , most honourable , and glorious , so often to forgive , or so long to forbear such a delinquent people ; and may , at length , judge it most becoming him , and most worthy of him , as he is the common ruler of the world , and their injured , despised ruler , to strike the fatal stroke , and quite cut them off from him . now here , it is therefore necessarily our duty , to use this argument with him of his name , so , as wholly to submit the matter to his judgment , and but conditionally , if it will indeed make most for the glory of his name , that then he will not abhor and reject such a people even for his names sake . nor can we herein be too importunate , if we be not peremptory , not too intent upon the end , the glory of his name ; for about the goodness , excellency , and desireableness of that we are certain ; if we be not too determinate about the meanes , or what will be most honourable to his name , concerning which we are uncertain . neither is it disallowed us to use the best judgment we can , about the meanes , and the interest of gods name in this case . it is not our fault to be mistaken , he expects us not to use the judgment of gods. but it will be our fault to be peremptory and confident in a matter , wherein we may be mistaken ; and must signifie too much officiousness , as if we understood his affaires better than himself , and a bold insolence , to take upon us to be the absolute judges of what we understand not ; and to cover our presumption with a pretence of duty . therefore though such a people be dear to us , yet because his name ought to be infinitely more dear , that , in the settled bent of our hearts , we ought to prefer . and be patient of his sentence , whatever it prove to be , with deep resentment of our own desert but with high complacency that his name is vindicated , and glorifi'd , and with a sincere , undissembled applause of the justice of his proceedings ; how severe soever they may be towards us . especially if we have reason to hope , that severity will terminate , but in a temporary discountenance , and frown ; not in a final rejection . 2. much more are we to submit our own secular concernments , which may be involv'd . i. e. we ought only to pray , we may have the continued , free , profession , and exercise of our religion , in conjunction with the comfortable enjoyment of the good things of this life , if that may consist with , and best serve the honour of his great name . but if he do really make this judgment in our case , that we have so misdemean'd our selves , and been so little really better to common observation , in our practice and conversation , than men of a worse religion , that he cannot without injury to his name , and the reputation of his government , countenance us against them , by the visible favours of his providence : that it will not be honourable for him to protect us in our religion , to so little purpose ; and while we so little answer the true design of it ; that if we will retain our religion ( which we know we are upon no terms to quit ) we must suffer for it , and sanctifie that name before men by our suffering , which we dishonoured by our sinning . we have nothing left us to do but to submit to god , to humble our selves under his mighty hand , to accept the punishment of our sin , to put off our ornaments , expecting what he will do with us . and be content that our dwellings , our substance , our ease , and rest , our liberties and lives , if he will have it so , be all sacrifices to the honour of that excellent name . nor can our use of this argument want such submission without much insincerity . concerning this therefore look back to what was said on the former head . nor is there any hardship in the matter , that we are thus limited in our praying , for what even nature it self teacheth us to desire ; our safety , peace , and outward comforts ; unless we count it an hardship that we are creatures , and that god is god , and that ours is not the supream interest . the desires of the sensitive nature are not otherwise to be formed into petitions than by the direction of the rational , that also , being govern'd by a superadded holy divine nature ; unto which it is a supream , and a vital law , that god is to be first-eyed in every thing . reason teaches that so it should be , and grace makes it be so . and it ought to be far from us to think this an hardship ; when , in reference to our greater , and more considerable concernments , those of our soules , and our eternal states , we are put upon no such ( dubious suspenceful ) submission . he hath not , in these , left the matter at all doubtful , or at any uncertainty , whether he will reckon it more honourable to his name to save , or destroy eternally , a sincerely penitent , believing , obedient soul. he hath settled a firm connection between the felicity of such , and his own glory . and never put it upon us , as any part of our duty , to be contented to perish for ever , that he may be glorifi'd ; or ever to ask our selves whether we are so content or no. for he hath made such things our present , immediate , indispensable duty , as with which our perishing is not consistent , and upon supposition whereof , it is impossible we should not be happy . if we believe in his son , and submit to his government , his name pleads irresistibly for our being saved by him . he can have no higher glory from us , than that we be to the praise of the glory of his grace , being once accepted in the beloved . neither is it disallowed us to do the part of concives , fellow-members of a community , civil , or spiritual , to pray , very earnestly , for our people , city , countrey that are so justly dear to us . only since prayer it self is an acknowledgment of his superiority to whom we pray : and we have no argument , that we ought to hope should prevail , but that of his own name ; we can but pray , and plead as the nature of prayer , and the import of that argument will admit . i. e. with entire subjection to his holy and sovereign will , and subordination to his supream interest , to whom we address our selves in prayer . use. and now the use this will be of to us , is partly to correct and reprehend our prayers , wherein they shall be found disagreeable to the true import of this argument , and partly to perswade unto , and encourage , such praying , as shall be agreeable to it . 1. it justly , and aptly serves to reprehend , and correct , such praying as disagrees with it . especially the carnality , and the selfishness of our prayers . the use of this argument implies that the glory of god , and the exaltation of his name , should be the principal design of our prayers . is it not in these respects much otherwise ? we keep fast after fast , and make many prayers . and what is the chief design of them ? or the thing we are most intent , and which our hearts are principally set upon ? we see how god expostulates this matter . zech. 7. 5. when ye fasted and mourned , in the fifth , and seventh month , even those seventy years , did you at all fast unto me , even unto me ? why to whom can it be thought this people did keep fasts but unto god ? yes no doubt they did eye him , as the object , but not as the end . they were kept to him , but not for him , so as that his interest , and glory was the thing principally designed in them . nor can it be , if the things we cheifly insist upon , be such as have no connection with his true interest , or subserviency to it . and let us enquire upon these two heads ; whether our prayers , in these respects , do not run in such a strain , as that they cannot possibly be understood to mean him , or have a true reference to him . 1. in respect of the carnality of them . when we pray for the people of our own land , or for the christian church , more generally , what sort of evils is it that we find our hearts most feelingly to deprecate , and pray against ? what are the good things we chiefly desire for them ? we find our selves , 't is likely , to have somewhat a quick sense , and dread of the calamities of war , depredation , oppression , persecution , and we feel , probably , somewhat of simpathy within our selves , when we hear of any abroad , professing true , reformed christianity , that suffer the spoiling of their goods , are banisht from their pleasant homes , drag'd to prisons , prest with pinching necessities , for the sake of their religion ; and it were well if our compassions were more enlarged in such cases . and if we should hear of nations depopulated , cities sackt , towns and countreys delug'd with blood and slaughter , these things would certainly have an astonishing sound in our eares . but have we any proportionable sense of the spiritual evils that wast , and deform the christian church , exhaust its strength and vigour , and blemish its beauty and glory ? ignorance , terrene inclination , glorying in the external formes of religion , while the life and power of it is unknown and deny'd , estrangement from god , real infidelity towards the redeemer , vailed over by pretended nominal christianity , uncharitableness , pride , wrath , strife , envy , hatred , hypocrisie , deceitfulness towards god and man ? we ought to lament and deprecate the former evils without over-looking these , or counting them less , or being less affected with them . we are apt to pray for peace unto the christian community , for halcyon dayes , prosperity , the abundance of all outward blessings , in conjunction with the universal reception of such forms of religion , as are most agreeable to our minds , and inclinations . but do we as earnestly pray for the reviving of primitive christianity , and that the christian church may shine in the beauties of holiness , in heavenliness , faith , love to god , and one another , in simplicity , meekness , patience , humility , contempt of this present world , and purity from all the corruptions of it . this we chiefly , ought to have done , without leaving the other undone . which while it is left out of our prayers , or not more principally insisted on in them , how ill do they admit of enforcement by this argument from the name of god ? for do we think it is so very honourable to his name , to be the god of an opulent , luxurious , voluptuous , proud , wrathful , contentious people , under what religious form or denomination soever ? 2. but also do not our prayers chiefly center in our selves ? while we make a customary ( not understood ) use in them of the name of god ? and when we principally design our selves in our prayers , what is it we covet most for our selves ? 't is not agreeable to the holy , new divine nature , to desire to ingross spiritual good things to our selves ; when for others , we desire only the good things of this earth . but if our prayers do only design the averting from our selves outward calamities , or inconveniencies , and the obtaining only of ease , indulgence , and all grateful accommodations to our flesh , how absurd an hypocrisie is it to fashion up such a petition , by adding to it for thy names sake ? as if the name of god did oblige him to consult the ease and repose of our flesh ! when our soules , thereby , are made , and continued the nurseries of all the evil , vicious inclinations , which shew themselves in our practice , most of all to the dishonour of that name ! what subordination is there here ? manifest is the opposition of our carnal interest , to the interest and honour of the blessed name of god. if a malefactor , convicted of the highest crimes against the government , should petition for himself to this purpose , that it will bring a great disreputation upon authority , and detract from the famed clemency and goodness of the prince , if any punishment should be inflicted on him for his offences , or if he be not indulg'd and suffered to persist in them . how would this petition sound with sober , intelligent men ? 't is no wonder our flesh regrets suffering , but 't is strange our reason should be so lost , as to think , at random , that right or wrong the name of god is not otherwise to be indemnifi'd than by its being saved from suffering . as if the gratification of our flesh , and the glory of gods name were so very nearly related , and so much akin to one another ! and now this carnal self-interest , insinuating it self , and thus distorting our prayers , is the radical evil in them , and the first and original part of their faultiness . for it is not likely we should love others , better than our selves ; therefore we cannot go higher in supplicating for others . but yet we inconsiderately mention the name of god for fashion sake , though it be no way concern'd in the matter , unless to vindicate and greaten it self , in rejecting us and our prayers together . 2. the further use of what hath been said upon this subject , will be to perswade and engage us to have more regard to the name of god in our prayers ; especially in our praying about national , and publick concernments ; or such external concernments of our own as are involv'd with them . that , in the habitual temper of our spirits , we be so entirely and absolutely devoted to god , and the interest of his great name , that our prayers may savour of it , and be of an agreeable strain ; that the inward sense of our soules , may fully correspond to the true import of this argument , and our hearts may not reproach us , when we use it , as only pretending god , but meaning our selves , and that only our carnal self , the interest whereof alone , can be in competition with that of gods name ; and which , while it prevailes in us , will be the measure of our prayers for others also ; that the meaning of our words may not be one , and the meaning of our hearts , another , that we may truly mean as we speak , when we use the words for thy names sake . and that our hearts may bear us this true testimony , that we desire nothing but in due subordination to the glory of his name ; external favours , with limitation ; only so far as they may ; and spiritual blessings , absolutely , because they certainly will , admit of this subordination . and to this purpose let it be considered . 1. how unsutable it is to the condition of a creature , that it should be otherwise . that were certainly , a most uncreaturely prayer , that should be of a contrary tenour . let us but digest and state the case aright in our own thoughts . admit we are praying , with great ardency , on the behalf of a people to which we are related , and who are also related to god. it can scarce be thought we are more concern'd for them , than for our selves ; or that we love them more than we do our selves . our love to our selves is the usual measure of our love to others . and that is higher in the same kind , which is the measure of all besides , that belongs to that kind . when therefore we are much concern'd for the external felicity of such a people , it is very natural to be more deeply concern'd for our own . now if the sense of our hearts , in such a prayer , will not agree with the true import of these words , for thy names sake ; because indeed , we are more concern'd for our own carnal peace , ease , and accommodation than we are for the name of god. let us , that we may have the matter more clearly in view , put our request into such words , as wherewith the sense of our hearts will truly agree , and will it not be thus lord , whatever becomes of thy name , let nothing be done that shall be grievous , and disquieting to my flesh , which is as much as to say , quit thy throne to it , resign thy government , abandon all thy great interests for the service , and gratification of this animated clod of clay ; and do we not now begin to blush at our own prayer ? we easily slide over such a matter , as this , while our sense is more latent , and not distinctly reflected on , but let us have it before us conceptis verbis ; let it appear with its own natural face , and look ; and now see what horrour and detestableness it carries with it ! and dare we now put up so treasonable a prayer ? it would puzzle all our arithmetick , to assign the quota pars , or the proportional part any of us is , of the universe , or the whole creation of god! and do i then think it fit , that the heavens should roll for me ? or all the mighty wheeles of providence move only with regard to my convenience ? if a worm in your garden were capable of thoughts , and because it is permitted to crawl there , should think , this garden was made for me , and every thing in it ought to be ordered for my accommodation , and pleasure , would you not wonder that such insolence , and a disposition to think so extravagantly , should be in conjunction with the thinking power , or an ability to think at all . if we allow our selves in that far greater ( infinitely more unbeseeming , and disproportionable ) petulancy , do we think when the roller comes it will scruple to crush us , or have regard to our immodest , pretenceless claim ? let us consider what little minute things , how next to nothing we are , even compared with all the rest of the world ; what are we then compar'd with the maker and lord of it , in comparison of whom the whole , is but as the drop of a bucket , or the small dust of the ballance , lighter than nothing and vanity ! we should more contemplate our selves in such a comparison , many comparing themselves with themselves are not wise . while we confine and limit our eye only to our selves , we seem great things , fancy our selves very considerable . but what am i ? vvhat is my single personality ? ipseity , selfhood ( call it what you will ) to him who is the all in all ; whose being ( actually , or radically ) comprehends all being , all that i can conceive , and the infinitely greater all , that i cannot . if therefore i take in , with my self , the whole body of a people besides , that i am concern'd for , and admit that a generous love to my countrey , should make me prefer their concernments to my own ; or that upon an higher account , as they are a people related to god , i could even lay down my life for them . vvhat are we all , and all our interests to that of his name ? and if we should all agree in a desire , that our interest should be serv'd upon the dishonour of that name , it were but a treasonable conspiracy against our common rightful lord. and a foolish one , being exprest in a prayer ; as if we thought to engage him , by our faint breath , against himself . vve are to desire no more for them , than they may for themselves . and if we have joyn'd in open sinning against him , to that height that he shall judge he is obliged for the vindication , and honour of his name , ( by which we have been called ) of his wisdom , holiness , and punitive justice , as openly to animadvert upon us , can we gainsay ? if we knew of such a judgment nothing could remain for us but shame , and silence , conviction of ill desert , and patienent bearing the punishment of our sin . and while we know it not , yet because it is possible ; we ought no otherwise to deprecate such a procedure against us , than as will consist with that possibility . to pray otherwise , if we make no mention of his name , is absurd presumption , that we should wish , or imagine , he will prefer any concernments of ours , to the steady order and decorum of his own government . but if we do make mention of it , 't is a more absurd hypocrisie , to seem concern'd for his name , when we intend only our own external advantages ! as if we thought he that could answer our prayers , could not understand them . 't is surely very unbecoming creatures , to bear themselves so , towards the god that made them . 2. consider , that to have a sense in our hearts truly agreeable to the proper meaning of this argument for thy names sake , is very sutable to the state of returning creatures , who are gathering themselves back to god , out of the common apostacy , wherein all were engag'd , and combin'd against that great lord and ruler of the world . in that defection every one did principally mind and set up for himself . each one would be a god to himself , but all were , by consequence , against god. whom to be for , they were divided , and of as many minds as there were men . whom to be against , they were agreed , as if their common lord , was the common enemy . for his interest , and theirs , were opposite , and irreconcileable . they were sunk and lost in sensuality , and had no other interest , than that of their flesh . vvhen man hath made himself a brute , he then thinks himself fittest to be a god. the interest of our soules must unite us with him : that of our flesh engages us against him . some are thorough the power of his grace returning . vvhat a pleasure would it be to us to behold our selves among the reduces ! those that are upon their return . that are , again , taking the lord only to be their god , and his interest for their only interest ! 3. consider that our very name , as we are christians , obliges us to be of that obedient , happy number . for what is christianity but the tendency of soules towards god , through the mediation , and under the conduct of christ ? therefore is the initial precept of it , and the condition of our entrance into that blessed state , self-denyal . vve answer not our own name , further than as we are revolving , and rolling back , out of our single , and separate state , into our original , most natural state , of subordination to god ; wherein only we are capable of union with him , and final blessedness in him . this is discipleship to christ , and the design of the christian religion to be subdu'd in our spirits , and wrought down into compliance with the divine will , to be meek , lowly , humble , patient , ready to take up the cross , to bear any thing , lose any thing , be any thing , or be nothing , that god may be all in all . this is our conformity , not to the precepts only , but to the example too , of our great lord. who when he was in the form of god , and thought it no robbery to be equal with god : made himself of no reputation , and took upon him the form of a servant , and was made in the likeness of man ; and being found in fashion , as a man , humbled himself , and became obedient unto death , even the death of the cross . phil. 2. 6 , 7 , 8. and hereupon , because he was so entirely devoted to the honour , and service of gods great name ( father glorifie thy name summ'd up his desires ) therefore god highly exalted him , and gave him a name above every name , that in the name of jesus every knee should bow , &c. verse 9. 10. and when ever he shall have a church in the world , that he will think it fit to own with visible , unintermitted favours , it must consist of persons formed according to that patern . and then , by losing their own name and little interests for gods , they will find all recovered , when their glorious redeemer shall write upon them the name of his god , and the name of the city of his god , and his own new name . rev. 3. 12. 4. let it be further ( in the last place ) considered , with what chearfulness and confidence , we may then pray ; when our hearts are wrought to this pitch , that we sincerely design the honour of the divine name , as the most desireable thing ; and which name above all things we covet to have glorifi'd . for we are sure of being heard , and to have the same answer , which was given our lord by a voice like that of thunder , from heaven , when he pray'd father glorifie thy name , joh. 12. i have both glorifi'd it , and will glorifie it again . our hearts are not right in us , till we can count this a pleasant , grateful answer . and if we can , we can never fail of it . for we are told 1 joh. 5. 14. that whatsoever we ask according to his will he heareth us . this will deliver our minds from suspence . when we pray for nothing whereof we are uncertain , but with great deference and submission , and for nothing absolutely , and with greatest ingagement of heart ; but whereof we are certain . upon such termes we may pray with great assurance , as daniel did , o lord hear , o lord forgive , o lord hearken and do defer not for thine own sake , o my god : for thy city , and thy people are called by thy name . ch . 9. 19. and tho an angel be not thereupon sent to tell us , as was to him , so many weeks are determined upon [ thy ] people and [ thy ] holy city ( so the matter is exprest ; as it were kindly giving back the interest in them to daniel , with advantage , that he had before acknowledged unto god ) to finish the transgression , and to make an end of sins , and to make reconciliation for iniquity , &c. yet we are assured , of vvhat reasonably ought to be as satisfying , that vvhatsoever shall befall our city , or our people , shall end in the eternal glory of god , and of the city of god. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a44689-e120 octav. apud min. f. notes for div a44689-e790 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sprevit contempsit vulg. lat. & chald. par. deut. 7. 7. c. 10. 15. maimon . mor. nevoch . selden . de diis syris synt. 2. cap. 16. the glory of christ's light within expelling darkness being the sum of the controversie between the people called quakers, and some of the non-conformist priests, as manifest at two publick disputes in essex : between george whitehead (called a quaker) and stephen scandret (presbyter) being at the latter dispute assisted with five more of his brethren, the priests, to wit, nathaniel barnard, henry havers, henry coleman, nath. ball, and robert billoes : wherein are several. whitehead, george, 1636?-1723. 1669 approx. 103 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 24 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a65867 wing w1930 estc r39125 18216695 ocm 18216695 107193 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a65867) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107193) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1136:16) the glory of christ's light within expelling darkness being the sum of the controversie between the people called quakers, and some of the non-conformist priests, as manifest at two publick disputes in essex : between george whitehead (called a quaker) and stephen scandret (presbyter) being at the latter dispute assisted with five more of his brethren, the priests, to wit, nathaniel barnard, henry havers, henry coleman, nath. ball, and robert billoes : wherein are several. whitehead, george, 1636?-1723. 47 p. s.n.], [london : 1669. place of publication suggested by wing. imperfect: stained, with print show-through. errata: p. 47. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng scandrett, stephen, 1631?-1706. society of friends -england. puritans -england. dissenters, religious -england. 2004-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 john latta sampled and proofread 2005-01 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the glory of christ's light within expelling darkness : being the sum of the controversie between the people called quakers , and some of the non-conformist priests , as manifest at two publick disputes in essex ; between george whitehead ( called a quaker ) and stephen scandret ( presbyter ) being at the latter dispute assisted with five more of his brethren , the priests , to wit , nathaniel barnard , henry havers , henry coleman , nath. ball , and robert billoes . wherein are several weighty matters and principles discussed , to inform and undeceive the deceived , that they may know the truth as it is in jesus , which is really desired by us who are lovers of truth , and well-wishers to our enemie's souls , robert ludgater , william allen , john furly , john childes , giles barnadiston , george whetherley whereunto is added a brief and scriptural examination of that private principle of a personal election and reprobation of certain definite numbers from eternity ; wherein that ridged spirit ( that denies grace to be free for all men ) is detected , by g. whitehead . evil men and seducers wax worse and worse . printed in the year , 1669. a narrative to professors and followers of presbyterian priests , and others concerned . although perverse disputes of men of corrupt minds are things neither desirable , nor pleasing to us ; yet when such men do appear with impudence , and open face , against the precious and living truth professed by us , we are necessitated to appear on truth 's behalf , and to stand up for the lord in these weighty matters ; as namely , on the behalf of his universal-love , and free-grace to mankind , therein we bearing witness unto that true light of his , within and the sufficiency of it both as rule and guide in the way to salvation , and in vindication of this true light which enlightens every man coming into the world , as also for the power and work of christ in his restoring and freeing man , perfectly , out of sin and death ; for this ( through his grace ) we are engaged to appear against the devil and darkness , and against all his sinfull agents and messengers , who dispute against the sufficiency of the light of christ that is in every man , and against perfection being attainable in this life , wherein they do but contend for the devil , error , darkness , and the works thereof , and so against god , his truth , free-grace , and his work , whom we desire ever to serve and testifie to . and now , as to the occasion of our having thus to do with this stephen scandret , and some of his brethren ; the two disputes ( as they were deemed ) that were between him and our friend george whitehead , were chiefly occasioned by the said s. s. and some of his hearers and benefactors , both proffering and urging for dispute ; it appears that some of his hearers had in that matter better conceits of him then he deserved , as judging him a man of competent parts and abilities for that purpose ; as also probably supposing that his cause on principles had had such truth in them , that they should have had the more power and prevalency with them to have stood the trial better then they did . as for the first dispute on the 20th of the 11th moneth ( 68 ) it was managed with more calmness and moderation on s. s. his part than the latter , excepting that many times he would interrupt when an answer was a giving , and at the latter end he broke off to be gone , in such an abrupt manner , that as he occasioned some disorder , leaving some false insinuations against us , implying , as if we did not own the righteousness of christ for justification , &c. without staying to receive answer thereto , which tended to stir up the ruder sort against us : howbeit , the controversie having been managed before with some moderation , this s. s. ( as no doubt , being then under some conviction ) was forc'd to confess to several truths which g. w. urged : as first , ( after he had asserted the scriptures to be the only rule of life ) he confessed , that the light within was a spiritual light , and the light of the spirit of god , that every one is enlightened with . secondly , that this light many have who have not the scriptures . thirdly , that this light within might , through the blessing of god , with a good improvement , save them that have not the scriptures ; so that to his own confutation , he did herein confess to the light within , as being more universal than the scriptures . and in his confessing this light within to be spiritual , or a light of the spirit of god , he hath flatly contradicted his denying the light within to be saving ; and in divers other things , at the other dispute , he did manifestly contradict himself , and yet would not appear to see or confess his error , when several times urged upon him at the dispute : howbeit , afterwards he writ a paper to g. w. wherein he confessed himself defective in the disputation ; howbeit , ( as appeared upon some of his hearers pressing him for a second disputation , as also being reflected upon by some of the professing party , who reported , that he had given away their cause ) he himself writ , and pressed several times upon g. w. for another dispute , using very smooth words ; as , beloved friend , i am willing again to meet you in a friendly and amicable manner to dispute ; but at this last dispute all his pretended amity and friendship was turned into enmity , railing , interruptions and disorderly proceedings , not at all like a man either serious , or composed in his mind for to mannage a dispute , nor yet moderately to search into matters . to his earnest urging to a second dispute to be on the 25th or 30th of march , g. w. could not then lay aside his occasions to attend upon him at that time , but rather endeavoured to perswade this his ( more forward and confident , then prudent ) antagonist to weigh the business a little longer , that he might forbear pressing such a thing , until the lord should order his coming from london into this country ; george proposing these things following to his consideration , in the mean time a little to quiet him , as in his letter to s. s. in these words , ( viz. ) seeing that thou dost appear as one so willing and forward in this case to gratifie the peoples desires , i judge it meet that thou take the matter into more serious consideration , before there be a positive conclusion between us of the time and place for such a meeting ; as first , to mind , that sectaries ( among whom thou and i , with our friends are numbred ) have their present liberty and meetings rather by connivance , then by law or tolleration granted by the present power ; so that if occasion of provocation should be taken at such meeting or meetings , we must consider aforehand what in probability may be the issue . secondly , i have not observed those leaders of the people of thy perswasion to be so forward or ready to suffer imprisonment and exile in stormy times , as many of us , or our friends have done , that now you should seem to be so forward to make a flourish , and perk up so high in a time of calm , unless you were resolved to stand a storm with us ; however , prudence in these matters would become all , &c. howbeit , g. w. did signifie , that he was not unwilling , in the lord's will and time , both to answer the will and desires of moderate people in the case , as also to stand up for god and his truth , as required by him , or necessitated upon such occasions being put upon him , ( withal urging , that s. s. would engage there should be no tumult nor disturbance made against us ) but when s. s. saw that g. w. could not meet him so soon as he desired , he seemed to be the more urgent for a second dispute , and so writ again for that end , probably thinking , either that that might excuse him to his hearers , if george should not meet him ; or else , if he should , that he might amend his matter , and salve up the sore wherein he was defective before ; [ though he has more marred his work , and stained his credit at the last dispute , in the eyes of all moderate people , then ever before ; for his confessing to several truths at the former dispute , though to the breaking the neck of his and his brethrens corrupt cause , was better resented by all indifferent auditors , then his insolently opposing and gainsaying the truth in a most irregular manner at the last dispute , as one resolved both to stop his ears , and shut his eyes against plain demonstration and conviction , as also to hinder the people from hearing the truth , by his frequent interruptions , when answers should have been given ; being , with his assistant nathaniel barnard , resolved to bawl and make a noise when any thing of truth was like to pinch them , or inform the people against their errors and corruptions . ] but notwithstanding all this scandret's pressing for this second dispute , when he was sent to by john childe and joseph-smith , upon g. w. his order , to inform him of george's being in the country , as also of his willingness to meet him for a dispute ; also , george writ several times to him upon his seeming to evade disputing , because that george at first took not notice of his propositions ; [ he having pretended , that it was in love to christ , in love to truth it self , and in good will to souls that he would dispute again ; though he would have shuffled it off when it came to trial ] whereupon he used these words in his letter to george ; ( viz. ) who would come over the threshold to discourse with such a one ? i do still look upon you to deny to dispute with me ; thus he both slighted him , and uttered falshood , for george did not deny to dispute , though he could not joyn with him in prayer , which was one of his main propositions , in these words , i shall still urge , that we begin with solemn prayer , wherein none of us could joyn with him , judging it a very unreasonable thing in him to impose any such thing upon us , while we are so opposite and contrary in our spirits and principles to him and his brethren ; for there cannot be a real joyning in worship , where there is not an union in principle ; though the duty of prayer , it self , we really own , where it is perform'd and brought forth in the spirit of truth , and from its immediate teachings and motions . now when s. s. saw that this proposition could not be assented to , he stood peremtorily upon other two , which were in these words , ( viz. ) that you speedily and expresly consent , under your hand , the dispute shall not hold above five or six hours in a day . secondly , that what question be asked , pertinent to the point in hand , it be answered by affirming or denying of it expresly , if it be capable of such an answer , &c. to which g. w. returned this answer ; ( viz. ) as for thy two demands which thou art so peremtory in ; to the first i say , thou art left to thy liberty to cease disputing when five or six hours are out , provided thou dost not break of abruptly , to a disturbance , as before . to the second , i do intend , according to my understanding , to be as positive and intelligent in my answers to questions pertinent , as i can , and in my answers to signifie an affirmation or denial , if the question be capable of such an answer : upon which the time and place for the meeting ( which was on the first day of the fifth moneth 1669. ) was prefixt in the same answer by g. w. which s. s. could not well evade . as for the manner of this s. scandret , and those his brethren that assisted him , their behaviour and mannagement of the second dispute , on their parts , it was quite contrary to what he proffered and pretended in his letters before ; for he had pretended to meet and dispute in an amicable and friendly manner ; as also , that equal liberty should be granted to each party to explain their sence ; but instead thereof , there were frequent noises , interruptions on his and their parts , when things should have been explained on our parts ; as first , when our friend james parks was exhorting the people to christian moderation and sobriety , which was before this s. s. was come into the meeting to dispute , nathaniel barnard ( priest ) being a proud vapouring fellow , stood up in a frothy scornfull spirit , and interrupted james in his speaking , making a bawling noise , to stop the peoples ears from hearing the truth declared ; and after some little progress was made in the dispute with s. s. his manner also was , to make a noise and a bawling , freequently interrupting g. w. when he should have explained his answers , and sence , frequently using these words to george ( viz. ) a trifle , a trifle , a trifle , you ramble , you ramble , you ramble , &c. when he was neither able to make replication , nor render a reason against what george had urged in his answers ; and it was usual with this s. s. when he could not reply , to keep a noise in that manner ; also using these words , if you dare , if you dare ; as when he had affirmed the scriptures to be the only rule of life , and the full rule to guide us to heaven and glory , he would add , affirm the same of the light within if you dare ; and would be daring often to stop the peoples ears , and to stop an answer from being given , and this was his manner often times ; and when we both durst , and positively did affirm the same of the light of christ within , that it is a sufficient rule , &c. he would continue his bawling , several times , and either say , you dare not , you dare not , or if you dare ; and being willing to pass over the questions about the only rule , and the light that is in every man , he run to his fifth question , about baptism with water , whether it be an ordinance of christ ? but g. w. pressed and desired that the question about the light might be more fully discust , which s. s. refusing , george desired to know first , in what capacity he stood for water baptism ; whether as a popish priest , or an episcopal priest , or as a non conformist presbyterian priest , or a baptist ? seeing that all these pretended water baptism , but differed greatly about it ; some being for sprinkling infants , others for plunging believers ; therefore we urged to know whether he own'd infants or believers to be the subjects of this baptism ; but neither would he or his brethren pitch upon , nor give an answer , though george , many time proffered to dispute either of them , which he would pitch upon , but s. s. durst not stand to either , as a man affraid either to maintain or contradict his own practice , ( viz. ) sprinkling infants ; and instead of being ingenious in this matter , he made a bawling noise , crying out , it s with water , water , water ; and calling out against us , you rebels , rebels , rebels , go baptize you rebels , for many times together , appearing then rather like one of bedlam , then either a minister , or a sober man ; and thus he manifested his deceit and hypocrisie , and breach of promise in railing and reviling us : and now , where was his amity , and friendliness , and the equal liberty he proposed in his letter to g. w. dated from haverill , febr. 12. ( 68 ) but it was observed how well these priests were furnished with strong liquor , when they were at the dispute , which they often made use of to keep up their spirits for their work ; as when s. s. had spent himself a while , that he must be fain to go to the bottle , then that proud scornfull fellow nathaniel barnard he would stand up , and make a bawling , till he must be fain to get to the bottle also ; and thus they were fain to relieve one another ; this s. s. and n. b. being as the mouthes of the rest , but chiefly s. s. who making such a hidious noise and bawling , and so often crying out water , water , as also using these words , you rebels , you rebels , go baptise you rebels ( and that priest bernard bawling his story over and over , ) ( not like sober or ingenious men , but more like men infatuated ) but henry havers , and the other three , they behaved themselves more soberly then either s. s. or n. b. though they took their part , and all brought shame and disgrace upon themselves by suffering such a shallow bragging and vapouring man as s. s. ( who shewed himself in his ribbonds like a fiddler ) to be their mouth , and to mannage their cause , as if he were their chieftain , and over them all . again , when he stated a question , or read an argument ( for he had his arguments patch'd up aforehand in papers ) which was not capable of a direct answer , by affirming or denying presently , he would not admit of an explanation of it , but would cry , affirm or deny ; and if at any time , in the first place , any thing was affirmed or denied , he would not suffer us further to render a reason , but make a noise to stop the truth ; and when any of us granted to a question , according to truth , he would turn up his eyes and thank god , as if he had wrought some great conviction upon us ; whereas , what we either affirmed or granted , we did not learn of him , but spoke the naked truth , as we had it of the lord before ; as for instance , after this s. s. had affirmed the scriptures , which are the writings , to be our only rule of life , which being denied by us , that the writings abstractivly can be the only rule , because the spirit of truth is said to guide into all truth ; hereupon he confest that it was not the scriptures abstractively that he meant to be the only rule , but the will of god contained , or declared of in the scriptures ; where , though he manifestly contradicted himself , yet , when we granted , that the will of god declared of in the scriptures is the rule , which will is , that we should follow the light within ; hereupon this s. s. would again turn up the white of his eyes , and thank god that we granted to this truth , though it was so apparently contradictory to his error , who went about to set up the scriptures as the only rule , and to cause people to turn their backs upon the light within , telling them , you must follow the scriptures , for they will lead you to heaven and happiness , but you must turn your backs upon the light within as not sufficient ; and yet at another time , again was necessitated to confess , that it is by the spiritual enlightning of the understanding that the scriptures are understood ; so that here the spiritual light in the understanding was the rule to know the scriptures , so by his own confession they could not be the only rule , but the spirit or light that gave them forth , and gives the understanding of them , hath the preserment and preheminence of them . besides , what great hypocrisie and dissimulation for these presbyterian priests thus to pretend the scriptures to be the sole , absolute , or universal rule , when they do not really so own them ; neither are they their rule , while they put their meanings , false interpretations and glosses upon them , many times contrary to the very intent of scripture , when it goes positively against their principle , whereby they will either make themselves the rule over the scriptures , or else tell us that it hath another meaning or signification in the original , and so dare not stick to plain scripture as their rule when they are brought to trial , and this is their course from time to time to keep people in blindness and ignorance , when they set up the writing above the spirit or light written of , and tell people , that immediate teaching , and immediate revelation are ceased in these dayes ; and whither must people go then to ground their faith ? must they pin it upon their sleeves ? must they turn their backs on the light of christ within , to be captivated with the popes and priests darkness , with their dark and implicite faith ? and so be kept ever learning , that they may be always paying and maintaining a company of hypocrites , who were wont to cry against the quakers for creeping into houses , whilst they had cromwell to uphold them , and whilst they counted him the light of their eyes , and breath of their nostrils : but now these presbyterian and independant priests are fain to creep up and down themselves into houses , though it is evident they are no better then blind and dead men , since the light of their eyes and breath of their nostrils is extinguished : howbeit , they have gotten a cunning way to drive a trade now more hiddenly then when they were parish priests , having at their meetings large collections , at some places a great bason or platter held at the door , and at some other places their agents to go from house to house to procure or beg money for them ; and thus many of them ( it is supposed , and credibly reported ) drive a greater trade then many of the parish priests ; and in some places , some of their company have made a cunning bargain with the episcopal parish priests , as allowing them part of the fleece ( or money ) that they take from off their flock , whereupon the episcopal priest is contented to let them drive a trade under his nose . but now you who are the followers , and hearers , and benefactors these cunning creeping priests , you should do well to try them a little , be not too free of your purses to them , lest afterward you repent of it ; for we do not believe that many of them are so consciencious as to scruple conforming to the common-prayer , if they had but a dead trade among you , or were put upon trial ( for now you have fed them so full and fat , that they make such a vapour and blustering against us who have been the sufferers , and whom they know in stormy times have endured the storms , and born the heat , and the blows very much from them , when they have skulkt and crept into holes and corners , and very few of them durst shew their heads in any testimony for god or christ ; but have been ready to run away out at back-doors , or over the houses , rather then be taken prisoners , though now they can in their meetings , houses and barns most unworthily and unjustly rail against , and revile us , called quakers , and grosly pervert and misrepresent our principles , vilifying and reproaching the truth that we profess concerning the light of christ that is in every man , and the sufficiency of it ; but it is set over all their heads , and the truth hath confounded and shattered them , for they were commonly wont to tell people it was but a natural light , the light of a natural conscience , a created light ; but now this their representative ( s. s. hath confest , that it is a spiritual light , yea , a light of the spirit of god that is in every man , so what he hath asserted to the contrary in his declaring it insufficient , and bidding people turn their backs upon it , is all against the spirit of god , and the light of it , wherein his folly and confutation is so signally discovered , that he , and the rest that owned him , have neither cause now to boast , nor yet to urge for any more meetings with any of us , nor we much so regard them , except that we should order some of our women friends to dispute with them , for many of them are able to confute these shatter'd priests , whom the sun is set upon , and the day is become dark , and the lord is delivering many out of their mouthes , and that is their torment , especially , when they are like to lose any of their benefactors , then they are ready to call for disputes with us , and to make a bussle and stir , by which they still lose and are disappointed of their ends ; for at the last dispute when they would not suffer us to explain our selves , or give an answer ; some of the people said , we shall like the quakers never the worse , if you will not give them leave to speak ; and indeed , many were then convinced so far as to see the folly and madness of this s. s. and his assistant priest bernard , who was there proved a manifest lyar , in interrupting g. w. contrary to his plain promise . the questions which we propounded to be disputed on before the first dispute were three ; as first , whether every man be enlightned with a spiritual saving light ? which we affirmed . secondly , whether perfection be attainable in this life ? which we affirmed . thirdly , whether impure persons ( while such ) be justified by the imputation of christ's righteousness ? which we denied . this last question s. s. altered , and stated it thus , whether justification be by the works of the law , or by the righteousness of christ through faith ? which question could not in these general terms so reach the controversie between us , as the question we proposed ; these priests holding , that men are imputatively righteous , and justified when actually sinners ; and we holding the contrary , that men are justified when really and actually righteous , or partakers of the righteousness of faith in christ , wherein they are obedient to the word or spirit of god in their hearts , to which the righteousness of faith requires obedience ; and we further affirm , that it is a false imputation to reckon men righteous or just , whilst they are really or personally unrighteous and unjust ; for the faith that was reckoned to abraham , and by which the believers are justified , is a living faith , that purifieth the heart , and that is accompanied with those works of obedience , which answer the law of faith in the heart . moreover , to these questions before s. s. added three more ; as in the first place , whether the scriptures are not to be our rule of life ? to which we affirmed , not the writings , but the thing written of , to wit , the same that was the saints rule in all ages , or the spirit and light of christ within which gave forth the scriptures , and brings to the right understanding , true use and fulfilling of them , and without which light people cannot truly understand them . then s. s. added , for the two last queries , ( viz. ) whether baptism with water be an ordinance of christ ? which he affirmed , though he durst not tell us whether babes or believers were to be the subjects of it ? or whether he were a true administrator of it ? for when g. w. in a letter would have put him to prove his call to the ministry ; and whether he own'd immediate revelation in these dayes ? he must have george to prove his call first ; thus he shuffled . and then his last question was , whether the lords supper be not an ordinance of christ , binding us ? this question we got not to , to discuss , nor did he explain what he meant by the lords supper : howbeit , he hath told g. w. in a paper , that this light within doth not dictate that baptism by water is gods will , nor that we ought to celebrate the lords supper , &c. so that you the hearers and followers of this s. s. may take notice , that if he does celebrate ( as he popishly saith ) and delivers to you . bread and wine , and tell you it is the lords supper , he is not led to it by the dictates of the light within , which he hath confest to be the light of the spirit of god ; and therefore we may conclude his pretended celebration and ordinance not binding to us , because the light of the spirit of god does not enjoyn us to it ; for we must worship in the newness of the spirit , and we know the spirit of truth leads into all truth ; so that what is of truth the light dictates to us , and therefore we must not follow priest s. s. his darkness for our dictator or guide . secondly , if sprinkling infants be a part of his trade in houses and corners , you may understand that the light of the spirit of god doth not dictate it unto him , and therefore you will be exceeding , blind and dark , if you give your selves to be bound to submit to his darkness , or to any of his impositions , which are neither scriptural nor spiritual ; therefore we caution you not to follow such dark and blind guides , and not to turn your backs upon the light of christ within , lest you be shut up under the chains of these priests darkness and ignorance , who have perverted and deceived you , one while endeavouring to keep you from the light within , another while pretending to pray for god's teaching , as this s. s. hath done , where in his papers he saith , the whole congregation stand in need of gods teaching , and the lord god of heaven lead us into all truth ; thus prayeth ( saith he ) your truly well-wisher in the lord s. scandret . but , we pray you , how should you know and receive gods teachings or leading into all truth , if not by his light within ? are you like to receive his teachings in the darkness ? or by turning your backs on the light ? whereas if god be your teacher , you must know and own his law in your hearts , and his spirit in your inward parts , as he hath promised , and not follow hypocrites , that one while pray to god to teach you , another while say , you must turn your backs on his light within , as insufficient , whereas the light of the spirit of god is to be the only teacher , and is both true , infallible , and a perfect guide to all them that obey and follow it ; therefore reject it not , as you tender your own eternal happiness , and desire to be delivered from under the power of darkness , hell and destruction . we have copies of the disputes more at large , and circumstancially , as they were then taken by several in short-hand , and after compared , which are here abreviated into this method following for plainness to the readers , with some passages added in the answers where we met with interruptions . and if steph. scandret shall undertake to appear in print , in vindication of his own and his brethrens principles , we hope we shall have more opportunity to make them further manifest , then they would allow us at the disputes . sect . i. here followeth some of s. scandret his principles and doctrines , disputed on between him and g. w. at the first dispute , ( on the 20th of the 11th moneth 68. ) with a brief answer and reply . s. scandret affirmed , that the scriptures are the sole universal and most certain rule of life , more full then any other to us , and that they most fully discover and reveal the mind and will of god , which cannot be known but by the scriptures ; therefore we are directed to search them : and if it be certain that the scriptures come from god , as none dare deny , then am i not so certain , if any thing else be dictated to me ( said he ) . answer . although we own the scriptures of truth in their place , yet they are not to be set up above that spirit that gave them forth , as here our opposer hath done ; for it is the spirit of truth that leads into all truth , that reveals the mind and will of god , and it is the inspiration of the almighty that giveth understanding , without which men are ignorant of the scriptures ; and how comes this man to be so certain of the scriptures , whilst his certainty depends not upon the spirit 's guidance ? and whence hath he his certainty , whilst he hath excluded the immediate teachings and guidance of the spirit of truth , which searcheth all things , even the deep things of god ? is he not among them that searched the scriptures to find eternal life in them , but would not come to christ that they might have life ? besides , he doth not rely upon the spirit of truth for certainty , both as the most absolute rule and leader ; we have little cause to believe his spirit , his faith and perswasion being implicite and dark ; and how will he convince them meerly by the scriptures , who question them , or the translation of them , seeing his brother tho. danson hath confessed , that it is but petitio principii , a begging of the question , to bring a testimony of scripture concerning it self , for their conviction that question its authority ? whereby he hath apparently shaken their foundation ; but if the scriptures be the only most certain universal rule , as s. s. affirms , then it seems the course he 'll take to convince papists , jews and turks , who question , or oppose much of the scriptures , is by the scriptures themselves ; and herein he still comes under his brother danson's censure of begging the question , and imposing upon his opposers : but how manifestly did this s. s. contradict himself , when he confessed , that the light of the spirit of god within was more universal then the scriptures , in that many have it , who have not scripture , and to such the light within might through the blessing of god be saving ? as also , if he and his brethren did really own the scriptures to be the sole , and most certain , and full rule of life , what needed they have assemblies in scotland and england to make them a directory , confession of faith , catechisms and covenant , if the scriptures were so full and of such esteem with them as they pretend ? s. s. paul by the light within did , and thought he might do many things contrary to the name of jesus , and so was misled and mistaken by following the light within , &c. answ. this is a gross mistake , it was not by following the light within , but by following his own thoughts and darkness that he was mistaken , wherein he was zealous for traditions more then for light or spirit within ; so that here our opposer hath done no less then put darkness for light ; and what , and where were the pricks that it was hard for him to kick against ? were they not from the light within ? s. s. what is dictated to me within may come from the darkness , and i may take it for light ; but what comes from scripture i am certain is from the spirit of god , there is no darkness in the scriptures ; it is true the spirit of god is a spirit of truth , but in as much as within us there is darkness as well as light , we are not able to discern the one from the other without the scriptures , as paul was subject to mistake by following the light within . answ. here he hath sufficiently manifested himself to be one that understands not the dictates of the light from darkness , as one yet in the blindness of his mind , and in the darkness that comprehends not the light ; and paul when he was mistaken , and thought he might act contrary to jesus , was in the unconverted state , as it plainly appears this priest s. s. is , who discerns not between light and darkness ; and what signifies his saying , there is no darkness in the scriptures ; is he any whit the nearer the understanding of them , whilst he is so full of darkness in himself , that he discerns not the light from it , the god of the world having blinded his mind ? and did not paul when he was saul , and a persecutor own the scriptures of moses and the prophets as his rule , and yet acted contrary , as one out of the light , when he persecuted ? but yet when he was turned to the light and law of god within , then he saw himself and sin to be exceeding sinfull ; and it was the law of the spirit of life in christ , that was inward and spiritual , that made him free , and this was his rule in the converted state , when he was come to serve the lord , not in the oldness of the letter , but in the newness of the spirit : but again , how did this s. s. contradict himself in granting , that the spirit was to give the understanding of scripture , and did as certainly reveal the mind and will of god as the scriptures ? but then again in contradiction to himself , asserted , that the spirit of god must be tried by the scriptures , whereby he still hath ascribed the supremacy to the scriptures , and not the spirit ; absurdly preferring the effect before the cause , as if the spirit of god were not sufficient to manifest it self to them that believe in it , and yet be sufficient to lead into all truth : what gross ignorance , and apparent contradiction is this our opposer involved in ? certainly the spirit of truth is all-sufficient , and must have the preferment among all that are spiritually minded : and seeing it was granted by s. s. that where the scriptures did not come , the light within was to be their rule , and the spirit of god listned unto , and obeyed ( but the scriptures must be our only rule who have them , &c. ) upon this we query , whether yet he will own the spirit of light within to be greater , and preferr'd before scripture ? as doubtless the spirit of truth that gave them forth is the greater ; and then we ask , if the heathen or gentiles , that shewed the work of the law written in their hearts , were led or guided by that which is greater then the guide which the christians now are to rely upon ? or whether or no professed christians in england must be inferiour to the gentiles or heathen ? let these things be seriously considered , for christ is given for a light unto the gentiles , to be salvation to the ends of the earth ; and he said , believe in the light that you may be children of the light ; and he that doth truth cometh to the light , that his deeds may be manifest that they are wrought in god , john 3. 21. so that here the light is the rule to manifest and try mens actions , whether they are wrought in god , yes or nay ? sect . ii. s. scandret confest , that it was a spiritual light , and that it was the light of christ that every one was inlightned with ; g. w. asked him what spirit it related to , or was the light of ? for the word that is the primative of the derivative spiritual , is spirit ; to this s. s. answered , that it was the spirit of god which it was a light of , &c. reply , a plain confession , no wit is the light of the spirit of god that is in every man , enough to overthrow all our opposers work to the contrary , and his reason from his own , and the creatures darkness and mistakes against the sufficiency of the light of the spirit of god ; this is the stone and rock that breaks , and will break him and such opposers to pieces . s. s. objection , the light within doth not change all mens hearts ; all do not obey god ; it brings not all to god ; all heard not the joyfull sound ; all had not satisfaction in god ; therefore the light within is not saving . reply , the same he might as well object against the spirit of god , as against the light of it , which he hath confest to before ; for many had the good spirit given to them who rebelled against god , and grieved his holy spirit ; therefore their hearts were not truly changed by it , because of their rebellion ; and they that rebel against the light know not its ways , because they abide not in its paths , job 24. 13. and there are many who resist the spirit of god , and reject his counsel until they are given over to hardness and unbelief . now what doth s. s. think that the spirit , or light of the lord , will inevitable , or irresistably inforce a change and salvation upon rebellious gainsaying persons , who hate his light and reject his counsel ; if he suppose this , why is it not inforc'd upon all in the same capacity ? what , doth he render man like a block , or a beast , not to go or act in obedience or subjection , but as he is forc'd or driven ? surely , man hath a better capacity given him of god then so : and seeing s. s. did confess , that the light in its common operations was in the unbelievers ; upon which , we ask , what those common operations are ? and what do they tend to ? and what is the good end of god in affording this light of his spirit to all , and such operations in unbelievers ? surely , if it be to their conviction and reproof for sin and evil , god's good end and will therein is , that they may come to see and hate sin and evil , and so be by degrees drawn out of it , and find mercy , peace and satisfaction with the lord in forsaking sin , and embracing righteousness ; surely the universal love of god in giving light to all , is of this tendance and effect , to all that really accept of his love and good will. s. s. the common light may misguide a man , for it may become darkness ; if the light that is in you be darkness , &c. answ. the light of the spirit of god is infallibly true , and cannot misguide any , neither is it proper or true to call this darkness , for the light in every man is confessed to be the light of the spirit of god ; however , s. s. and such blind-guides , to their own confusion , may put light for darkness , and darkness for light , as such whose minds and eyes are evil do ; and it was such that christ spoke of , who , if they put darkness for light , then , how great was their darkness ; for , to be sure , no light in it self , or in its own being , can properly be called darkness . s. s. object . deut. 29. 4. yet the lord hath not given you a heart to perceive , and eyes to see , and ears to hear unto this day ; therefore , &c. reply , there were those who closed their eyes , and stopped their ears , as did the rebellious jews , zach. 7. 11 , 12. matth. 13. 15. and though these whom moses reproved , did not continue in the tenderness of heart , and true light unto that day , yet it is evident verse 2. they had seen all that the lord did before their eyes in the land of egypt , and the signs and miracles , verse 3. as also of the same people an ample testimony is given in nehem. 9. what great things the lord had done for them ; and how he gave also of his good spirit to instruct them , verse 20. sect . iii. upon the question about perfection s. s. affirmed , that perfection that is a state free from all sin , is not attainable in this life , but god would take his own time to do it in the other world , after death ; sin shall never be wholly taken away in this life , but in another life , when we come to the spirits of just men made perfect , and to god the judge of all , &c. ans. here he hath spoken both like a stranger from god and just men , and hath taken sathan's part in pleading for his work , which is sin , denying the end of christ's coming and manifestation , and the work and effect of the true ministry , which was given for the perfecting of the saints , ephes. 4. and christ was manifest to destroy the work of the devil , which was sin , and he that abideth in him sinneth not , see 1 john 3. and when , and where are believers perfectly freed or clensed from sin in the life to come ? is not this like the pope's doctrine for a purgatory ? but how long it is between death and this time of clensing ? or whether the saints deceased are yet clensed , yes or nay ? and the place where s. s. could not tell . but further , how gross and absurd is it for him to suppose believers not come to the spirits of just men made perfect , or to god the judge of all , till after their decease ? for were the hebrews not alive , nor upon earth , when they were writ to , in these words , ye are come unto mount sion , to god the judge of all , &c. hebr. 12. 22. surely they were then living upon earth . s. s. they were come , that is spiritually , but not corporally , to the spirits of just men , &c. reply , what a strange shuffle is this ; where do the scriptures speak of a corporal perfection , or a joyning to god corporally ? but must not the body be subject to the spirit , seeing believers are to be sanctified throughout , in body , soul and spirit ? and if that which is born of the spirit , which is spirit , have the rule , then the body is brought into subjection , and that which is born of god overcomes the world , 1 john 5. 4. upon psalm 119. 1 , 2 , 3. s. scandret gave his meaning thus , they do no iniquity , that is , so far as they are regenerated , &c. to this we say , this is his corruption and perversion put upon plain scripture , his meaning implying only thus much ; they do no iniquity , that is , so far as they do no iniquity ; and so according to his meaning , the words are to be read thus , blessed are the undefiled in the way , so far as they are undefiled in the way ; and blessed are they that keep his testimonies , so far as they keep them , &c. whereas the words are plain and positive , without any such exception , blessed are the undefiled in the way , who walk in the law of the lord , &c. as his instance of paul in rom. 7. 17. he should also as well have instanced paul's deliverance , and being made free by the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus from the law of sin and death , and his being made more then a conqueror . s. s. the state of perfection is not attainable in this life , because whilst men are in the body , vain thoughts lodge within them ; and job saith , if i say i were perfect , i should not know my own soul. reply , first , victory over vain thoughts through faith in the power of christ is attainable , the thoughts of the righteous are right , prov. 12. 5. david waited and travelled , that vain thoughts might not lodge within him ; and also he said , i hate vain thoughts , psalm 119. 113. and let the wicked forsake his way , and the unrighteous man his thoughts , and let him return unto the lord , and he will have mercy upon him , &c. isa. 55. 7. and it was the rebellious that walked after their own thoughts , chap. 65. 2. and , oh jerusalem , wash thine heart from wickedness , that thou mayst be saved ; how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee ? jer. 4. 14. so that it is evident victory over them is attainable . first , because a forsaking of them is required . secondly , because believers waited and prayed for such a victory . thirdly , because it was attained by those whose thoughts were right , and those under the gospel whose thoughts were brought into subjection to christ : and as for job , however he debased himself under his great affliction and trial , yet at that time of temptation , the testimony given of him , was , that he was a perfect and upright man , one that feared god and eschewed evil , job 1. 1 , 8. this was god's own testimony of him to satan ; to which satan answered the lord , and said , doth job fear god for nought ? hast not thou made an hedge about him , & c ? now , [ mark ] here satan did more confess to the truth that god said of job , then these priests do who plead for sin and imperfection term of life ; so that they are more ignorant and blind then satan , they shew themselves to be his agents , in pleading for his work , who notwithstanding sought to make job curse god , and so to decline from his perfection . in that of job 9. 20 , 21. if i justifie my self my mouth shall condemn me , though i were perfect , yet would i not know my soul , &c. self-justification we do not own , but yet perfection is attainable , see job 23. 10 , 11. but he knoweth the way that i take , when he hath tried me , i shall come forth as gold ; my foot hath held his steps , his way have i kept , and not declined so here is perfection , whatever the devil and his instruments either work , or say to the contrary . s. s. that god saw it not good to abolish sin in this life . answ. a strange doctrine , contrary to both god's commands , promises and works ; viz. sin not ; i will make an end of sin , for this purpose is the son of god made manifest to the destroy the works of the devil : can god see the continuance of evil to be good ? or that his commands should be made void ? surely no. s. s. arg. that god is continually purging every branch in christ ; therefore there is something to be purged out . reply , there is a time of purging , and a time of being purged in this life ; he hath washed us from our sins in his own blood , &c. and because every branch in christ , is of the heavenly father's purging , therefore it must be perfectly purged and fitted to bring forth much fruit ; for god's work is perfect , it is not an imperfect work of mans ; and we ask , whether every branch that bringeth forth fruit in the vine , be not of the nature of the vine in which it grows , and hath its vertue ? sect . iv. s. s. we are all lost in adam ; we have all sinned and come short of the glory of god , and we could not redeem our selves ; it is only the blood of christ answers for us at the bar of gods justice , &c. answ. you that plead and contend forsin term of life , are but yet in adam , in your sins , short of the glory of god , not redeemed by the blood of christ , while in your polluted state ; you are not acquited , neither will god's justice pass you by ▪ if you continue without repentance , rejecting his love and good will tendred in christ , who was not an offering only for some presbyterians , or a few as they imagine , but for the whole world , though none do experimentally enjoy the good end of christ's coming , sacrifice and blood , but such as receive him to believe in , follow and obey him as the author of eternal salvation , to as many as obey him . s. s. a justified state is attended with sanctification ; what righteousness is that which justifies ? answ. first , it is a true confession , that a justified state is sanctified , and therefore men are not justified , nor made righteous while unsanctified ; and this confutes much of these mens doctrine for an imputed justification of men in their sins . secondly , the righteousness which justifies , renders true believers both righteous , just and accepted of god , is the righteousness of faith , it is spiritual inwardly , and spiritually received in the obedience of the spirit of holiness , of faith and power of god ; it is an everlasting righteousness , not of self , nor yet imperfect , nor yet an imagination of an imputation to men in sin , but it is inwardly revealed in such in whom the image of god is renewed , and not in them who are in old adam in the fall . s. s. though christ's suffering was temporary , his active and passive obedience was the only thing that redeemed our souls , and that the righteousness within had no hand to exempt us from wrath . answ. what is the tendency of this doctrine , but to shut christ out of doors , and not to suffer him place in his people , whilst his righteousness within is so little valued ; whereas christ is made unto the true believers , wisdom , righteousness , sanctification , and redemption : and know ye not that christ is in you , except you be reprobates ; and did not his active and passive obedience in his person bare witness unto that spirit of holiness and righteousness within , by which he offered up himself ? and though christ's suffering on the cross was temporary , yet the righteousness of faith still remains , and the blessed effect of his suffering and sacrifice is therein enjoyed by true believers , in light ; and we neither go about to establish self-righteousness , nor works of self for justification , as s. s. seemed falsly to insinuate in his preachment at the latter end ▪ to which he would not stay to receive an answer , but gat away in the crowd : and he needed not have told us that god will not acquit the guilty ; it was a doctrine more proper to himself , and his brethren ; for , to be sure , they are deeply guilty , who dispute for sin and imperfection all their dayes , wherein god will not clear nor acquit them . and such who are found in christ , and his righteousness , not having their own , are not found disputing and pleading for the devil's work , as these men are ; nor yet shutting christ , or his righteousness , out of people ; but are really partakers of that everlasting righteousness wherein both redemption , justification , and acceptance with the lord is enjoyed by them that are sanctified by the spirit and power of god , and restored out of the faln state , up to christ , who is made unto us wisdom , righteousness , sanctification and redemption , 1 cor. 1. 30. thus far we have in plainness , for the information of the readers , returned an answer to s. s. his chief principles , which were more fully discoursed of at the first dispute , in which you may see how defective he was , as he afterward confessed ; as also , that he hath not amended his matter at the second dispute , but made it worse . here follows some of stephen scandret his principles asserted by him , and owned by the other priests with him , ( at the second dispute , ( which was on the 1st of the 5th moneth 1669. ) upon some of the same questions disputed on at the former . i. first , concerning the scriptures and the light within , s. s. said , the main difference between those , called quakers , and us in this , is , as judge , here we set up the scriptures , as the only rule to guide to heaven and glory , they the light within ; they own the scriptures so far as they agree with the light within ; we own the light within so far as it agrees with the scriptures : the scriptures are the only rule , and most pretious , and not the light within ; we are to turn our backs upon the light within ▪ as being insufficient , &c. the scriptures are a full rule , and ●ully sufficient for salvation , let him affirm the same of the light within if he dare : the scriptures are the infallible rule , a trying light , a binding rule , let him affirm the same of the light wi●hin if h● dare answ. here are several affirmations laid down , but no proofs ; remember what thou did'st acknowledge and confess at our last dispute concerning the universallity of the light within , that it might be a rule where the scriptures were not ; and also didst grant , that it was spiritual , the light of the spirit of god ; but now it may be seen plainly , that thou goest about to set up the scriptures above the spirit of god which gave them forth : and now we do affirm , that the light of christ within , is both a certain infallible trying light , and binding rule to all them , the children of the light , and every one that love it both doth , and dare so own it , and confess to it , as that certain manifesting rule and guide , whereby things that are reproved are made manifest ; and they that love it bring their deeds to it , that they may be proved whether they are wrought in god ; and such do not give ( nor own ) such sinful advise to people as to turn their backs on the light , as this blind-guide , who shuts his eyes ( as one opposing plain conviction ) hath done , who after he had so highly asserted the scriptures or writings to be the only rule which leads to salvation , he confessed , that he did not mean the scriptures or writings abstractively to be the rule , but the will of god contained or declared of in them , wherein he contradicted himself , for this alters both the state of the question and assertion ; for whilest he laid all upon the scriptures , this tended to shut out all people under heaven from salvation , life and glory , but such as have the scriptures , which is a sad and prejuditial censure ; but now , seeing it is not the writing , but the matter or thing declared of , that is the rule , the light of christ within must be the standing universal rule , for that is declared of , and referred to by the scriptures ; so that to follow the light ▪ within , in what it dictates , is agreeable , and not repugnant to scripture , as is falsly insinuated by this opposer . moreover , the things declared of , or contained in the scriptures , relating to the will of god , and to life and salvation may be enjoyed where the writings are not ; for there were gentiles instructed by the will or spirit of god , who had not the law outward , as in rom. 2. therefore this spirit or light of god is greater , or more universal then the scriptures , and contains that which the scriptures contains , and more ; so the tenor and tendance of s. s. his work is to turn people from the greater , wherein they can never truly own the lesser ; for by turning of their backs upon the light within , they oppose and violate the scriptures of truth ; although he could hypocritically pray to god to lead us into all truth ; and also , in contradiction to himself , did grant , that without spiritual illumination , and regeneration he could not come to the excellency and knowledge of the will of god in the scriptures ; so that here the spiritual illumination is the rule preferred before the writings ; and now the question is , whether those gentiles had not a sufficient rule in them , who had not the scriptures , who yet did the things contained , and enjoyed the things declared of ? to this we could not have an answer , but the same thing before asserted of the scriptures over and over , as being the full rule , &c. and that we must turn our backs upon the light within , whereas , people had need turn their hacks upon the darkness and blindness of such at s. s. who notwithstanding , in contradiction to himself , was made to grant , that we have but a part of the scriptures , many things being written , acted and spoken from the spirit of god , which we have not in the bible ; however , we must not turn our backs upon the light of the spirit of god within , nor deny or question its sufficiency , for we have experience of it , and that this spirit is the guide into all truth , without which the scriptures are not truly understood ; the will of god declared of in the scriptures we grant is the full rule ; hereupon the priest interrupted , and said , thanks be to god for this truth they have granted , &c. whereas we still added , that it was the will of god we should follow his light and spirit within , to guide us into all truth ; for this is that which unvails the heart , enlightens the understanding to know the scriptures ; but the jews had the writings of moses and the prophets , yet they understood not what they read , they could not see the end , because their hearts were vailed , even until the apostles dayes ; so their reading the scriptures did not discover life and glory to them , because it did not remove the vail from off their hearts ; but the inspiration of the almighty giveth understanding , the light of the spirit of god within can unvail the hearts , and enlighten the minds , and to this s. s. hath in effect granted , when he said , i did never affirm , that without spiritual illumination we could come to the knowledge of the will of god in the scriptures , &c. to which we further add , that it is the man of god , who is in the faith , being led by his spirit , who truly knows the right use and service of scriptures , they being of use and profitable , as given by divine inspiration ; but the writing or letter , outward , is not of absolute , universal necessity to salvation ; for many may be saved who neither have it , nor can read it ; for , from the light of christ within , they have so much of the instructions , or precepts therein contained , as are necessary to salvation . and christ is the way , the truth and life , and it is by the fathers drawings that men come to him ; and his light is universal , and enlightens every man that cometh into the world , now , it is no where so said of the scriptures ; and if the spirit of truth guide believers into all truth , then the light of this spirit within must needs be a sufficient rule of life , &c. and this s. s. did confess it was a spiritual light , the light of the spirit of god , that is in every man. ii. s. s. grant i did , that it is a light of the spirit of god , but not given to all ; it is only the elect are savingly enlightned , &c. answ. it is given to all ; if god gave his good spirit to wicked and rebellious men , then none are excluded from it ; but god did give his good spirit to rebellious men , nehemiah 9. 20 , 26. to this , with several other arguments , our opposer gave no answer , but asserted his old matters over and over ; and added some things , but not material . s. s. this is not a full light , &c. for god created the stars , which are a light ; must they therefore be the full light of the day & c ? answ. we are speaking about the light which is spiritual , and of god , which his instance of the stars makes nothing against ; nor did we ever read that the light of the stars was spiritual ; neither doth it follow that the light of the spirit of god is not a sufficient rule , because it is given by measure , and not in the fulness of it to all ; for however , it is pure and holy , the degrees do not alter the property : to every one of us ( saith the apostle ) is given grace , according to the measure of the gift of christ ; were they then to turn their backs of the measure of grace given , because it was not given in its fulness ? no sure ; for the light within , though manifest by measure , doth gradually lead men out of darkness , and sin , as they take heed unto it ; it is truly spiritual , pure , and universal , though it reveal not all things at once : and the path of the just is a shining light , that shineth more and more until the perfect day : and the more sure word of prophesie is to be taken heed unto , as a light that shineth in a dark place , until the day dawn , and the day-star arise in the hearts ; but it is questionable , whether s. s. or his brethren , will not say , that this is meant the scriptures ; if so , then we ask , are they more sure then what ? and whether the day dawning , and the day-star arising in the hearts be the scriptures ? again , the spirit of truth doth convince the world of sin , and of righteousness , and declares the will of god. s. s. it doth not convince of righteousness ; if it convinceth of sin , then not of the contrary . answ. we will appeal to the people , whether any of them can say , when they are reproved of sin , that they are not convinced of a contrary sta●e ? as namely , of a state of righteousness , which they ought to come into . s. s. no , no , we will appeal to the scriptures . answ. it is no● contrary to the scriptures to appeal to mens consciences ▪ the apostle was manifest in mens conscience in the sight of god ▪ and sure it was the light of christ in them , which he was manifest unto . s. s. i deny that this light within doth convince of chist's righteousness imputed . answ. it being the light of the spirit of god , which both convinceth , and leadeth out of sin , that must needs lead to a state of righteousness , which is no other but christ's righteousness , even that of faith , wherein those gentiles that feared god , and obeyed this light within , were accepted , and in this were they justified , see acts 10. and rom. 2. s. s. i deny that the light within reveals christ jesus , prove it . answ. the light was given to believe in , before they were believers , and shined in their hearts to give them the knowledge of the glory of god , in ▪ the face of jesus christ ; therefore it was sufficient to answer the end of its being given , as to bring them into that knowledge , see 2 corinthians 4. 6. s. s. this doth not prove that the light doth reveal christ ; is this grace ( that hath appeared to all ) the light in every man ? prove that this grace was the light within : the light in every man never heard , or taught , that the gospel should come by christ , &c. answ. the light shineth in darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not ; but the grace of god which bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men ; therefore it is sufficient : and it hath been confest by s. s. that the light of the spirit of god did appear in every man ; now that this grace which teacheth to deny ungodliness , and worldly lusts , is a spiritual inward light ( and that which reveals christ to believers ) is plain , in that it both teacheth them to live godly , to look for that blessed hope and appearance of that great god and jesus christ , titus 2. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. therefore this light or grace within is both sufficient to reveal christ and gospel unto salvation , whatever this blind-guide say to the contrary . another priest , with s. s. alledged , that the grace of god appeared to all men , but not not in all . reply , was not its appearance spiritual , how then did it appear to all , and not in all ? surely its appearance to all , was in all , seeing it is spiritual , and spiritually to be seen , though many close their eyes against it . s. s. the light within is not , nor ever was from the foundation of the world a sufficient or full rule : none from adam in innocency , to moses and the prophets ; nor from them to the apostles ; nor any to this day that had a light in them sufficient to be a rule of life , but something was super-added to the light within ; as gods prohibition to adam ; and to the jews the law of ordinances , as circumcision , sacrifices , &c. and to the apostles baptism , and the supper , &c. answ. what a heap of ignorance and darkness is here uttered against the light of the living ! and how is the sufficiency of it in all gods people opposed by this our opposer , who denies the light in adam , in innocency , to be the full rule ; was not god and his light in him ? surely , the scriptures were not adams rule , for they were not written till many hundreds of years after ; and the holy men of god had a rule before they were written ; as abel , enoch , abraham , &c. and what was the rule to the prophets and apostles , which directed them in writing and giving forth the scriptures ? was not their rule within , and the revelation of the things contained in scripture inward , before they were written ? was not the spirit , the law and light of the lord within ? and whatsoever may be known of god , is it not manifest within ? s. s. did not god require more of adam then the light did dictate ? for if there be twenty trees in a garden ( looking about upon the trees in the grove , there , where the dispute was ) how should we know by the light within which of the tree were prohibited , if there were not a super-added command , &c. reply , here all along he manifested his ignorance , both of god , of his law within , which is light , and of the forbidden fruit : and being asked , whether it was outward fruit , and an outward tree that adam was prohihited ●● some of them answered , yes ; still opposing the sufficiency of the light in adam , when they could not deny god to be in him : and as for those laws of ceremonies and shadows to the jews , salvation doth not depend upon them , but upon the light of christ within , who is the substance : and when we urged that christ was the image of the invisible god , and the first-born of every creature ; and that adam was made in the image of god , which image was inward and spiritual ; and that god is not like to corruptible man , it was no ingenious answer for s. s. to cry out , a triffle , a triffle , or to cry , ye ramble , ye ramble , &c. as often he did , when he was baffled and confounded : and being asked , whether the appearance and law of god to adam was inward or outward ? his answer was , i am willing not to be wise above what is written ; i do not know , i am satisfied to be ignorant of it ; and yet he was ready to assert in his ignorance , that the light in adam was insufficient , when he did not know whether the appearance of god to him ▪ was inward or outward ; yet granted , that adam in innocency had the enjoyment of god , and so plainly contradicted himself , as not able to mannage what he had asserted against the light , nor yet his brethren with him ; though when he was put to a nonplus , his brother priest b. to help him , argued in this manner , though to little purpose . priest. viz. if those people , to whom the apostles were sent , did never hear the words of life and salvation , till they came to preach unto them ; then the light in them did not declare the words of life and salvation : but they did never hear the words of life and salvation , until the apostle came to preach to them ; therefore , &c. but this priest being manifest to be but a scornfull vopouring proud fellow , with neither common sobriety , much less any weight or sence of truth upon his spirit , his filly shallow matter was slighted , and the query was put to him , and the other priests , in this manner . query , whether or no wilt thou grant the same thing that s. scandret hath done ; viz ▪ that a light of the spirit of god is in every man ? or will you deny it ? if there be any of the same mind with him let them speak . priests , we do own what steph. scandret hath laid down . reply , then this light of the the spirit of god was able to teach all the words of life and salvation ; and the apostles did not preach to turn peoples backs upon this but to turn them to it , and confirm them in it , as that which taught many before , to fear god and work righteousness , wherein they were accepted ; and this overthrows the argument before , that was so often repeated , and s. s. his vain assertions and totoligies to the contrary ▪ who turned his back on the light within , till he is turned into gross darkness , and would have others do as he hath done . s. s. you dare not say the light within is the full rule . answ. that 's false , we both dare say it , and have affirmed , and proved , that the light of the spirit of god is a full rule to lead to salvation , where it is obeyed , as it was to the saints and true believers of old , who according to their several attainments were to walk by the same rule , and god would reveal to them , phil 3 16. and they had attained to divers measures and degrees of the spirit of god : and accordingly their states were written unto in several epistles ; that which was to one state , was not to every particular state and condition among the churches ; neither do we read , that the church at gorinth was to go and make the epistle to the church at rome their rule ; nor that the churches at ephesus , philippi , or thessalonia were to go to the corinthians , for paul's epistles to them , to compare theirs with , and to be their rule ; but that of the spirit or light within , to which they were all directed , and which was the rule of the new creature , whereby the things of god were revealed and made known unto the saints ; who could say , we have not received the spirit of this world , but the spirit which is of god , whereby we know those things that are freely given us of god. iii. s. s. go baptiz● , there is a command for it , the light saith nothing of it ; go teach and baptize , that 's christs command : and then he urged to have us speak to water baptism , but durst not declare who he intended as the subjects of it , whether babes , or believers , which g. w. and some of us often urged to know ; whereupon , if he had told us ingeniously his intention , we proffered fairly to dispute it ; but s. s. and his brethren durst not be plain with us in this matter , but shuffled and evaded , calling out over and over , do ye grant baptism with water ; go baptize with water , water , &c. you rebels , you rebels , go baptize you rebels ; can rebels be saved , &c. thus , and after this manner , he continued bawling and railing for some time , that little fair dealing we could have . answ. go teach all nations baptizing them , cannot intend infants , neither is there water mentioned in the command , matth. 28. and it was proffered these priests , that if they would stand for baptizing infants , or plunging believers , we would dispute that with them : or if s. s. would be plain , and ingeniously tell us in what capacity he stood in , whether in the capacity of a popish priest , episcopal priest , presbyterian priest , or baptist ? but hereunto we could have no other answer , then his general clamor , as before , for water , water , &c. and therefore g. w. proferred to speak something to both sprinkling infants , and plunging believers , to shew the rise of the one , and the other not to be in force nor continuance under the gospel ; but g. w. was interrupted , as often he was by these priests . s. s. water baptism is gospel ; a dispensation of the gospel was committed to paul , &c. answ. the gospel is everlasting , so is not water-baptism ; and paul said , christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel , 1 cor 1. 17. and surely his commission was as large as the rest of the apostles . s. s. christ sending him not to baptize , but to preach , is meant , not so much to baptize , &c. as in hosea 6. 6. it is said , i desired mercy and not sacrifice , &c. reply , this instance doth not prove his meaning , which perverts the apostles words , who thanked god he baptized none of them , but such as he mentioned , 1 corinth . 14. 15 , 16. for christ sent him not to baptize , but to preach the gospel , a full reason for his not continuing that then permissive practice of water-baptism ; which if it had been a command in force , surely , he would neither have thanked god , for not obeying it ; nor yet have said , christ sent me not to baptize : and where it is said in hosea 6. 6. i desired mercy and not sacrifice , those mentioned verse 5 , 7. whom he had hewed by his prophets , who transgressed and dealt treacherously against the lord , their sacrifice could not be accepted ; therefore he desired mercy , and not sacrifice , and the knowledge of god more then burnt-offerings ; and indeed , if this mercy and the knowledge of god had born sway among them , there had been no need or occasion for sacrifices , burnt-offerings , or sin-offerings ; the sacrifices of god being a broken spirit , and a contrite heart , psalm 51. 16 , 17. s. s. water baptism is necessary to salvation ; ( being affirmed to be gospel , to be binding of necessity , &c. ) answ. what then will become of all them that never came under it : must they all be damned for want of sprinkling or plunging in water ? a sad sentence ; that baptism which saveth , is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience , &c. giles barnadiston urged , that there is one faith , one baptism , ephes. 4. and asked these priests , what baptism it was ? whether that of water , or the baptism of the spirit ? to which s. s. answered . s. s. there is but one baptism , and it consists of two parts ; an inward part , and an outward ; the inward part was with the spirit , and the outward with water . reply , did you ever read or hear such doctrine before ? he makes the baptism of the spirit , and the baptism with outward water , both but one baptism ; and so whereas he hath made such a bawling for water-baptism , now it is but the outward part of baptism ; he should rather have said , as it is in the common-prayer-book , it is the outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace : however , in scripture there is a plain distinction between the baptism of water , and the baptism of the spirit , as there is between john's baptizing with water , and christ's baptizing with the holy ghost and with fire ; but this ignorant opposer s. s. makes them both but one baptism . iv. and further , we add an other instance against him and his brethren , in behalf of the light within , out of the common-prayer-book , in the collect for the third sunday after easter ; viz. almighty god , which sheweth to all men that be in error , the light of thy truth , to the intent that they may return to the way of righteousness , &c. now here is the light of the truth confest unto , both in its general extent , and in its sufficiency , as guide and rule , to lead men into the way of righteousness , which these men have all this while opposed : here is more of truth confest in this particular , in the common-prayer-book , then these men will confess to , who think themselves better reformed with their covenant , directory , confession of faith and catechisms , while yet in their darkness they are opposing the light of truth within ; but it is set over all their heads , and hath manifested their darkness and confusion . v. now concerning justification , the question being asked , what it is ? it was answered , priest , to make righteous ; and s. s. confest , that justification is by the righteousness of christ through faith. answ. that 's true , but men are not justified , that is , made righteous ; nor in the righteousness of faith , without sanctification . s. s. who affirms they are ? we own , that justified persons are sanctified . [ but in contradiction , he again affirmed thus ] we sinners are justified by the righteousness of christ , imputed ; viz. absolved from all our sins from the beginning of our lives to the end . reply , this gives a large liberty to sin , if men may sin all their dayes , and yet think themselves absolved from all ; whereas , that of rom. 3. 25. which they instanced , is thus , concerning christ ; viz. whom god hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of god : it is not said , for the remission of sins past , present , and to come ; nor yet of all our sins from the beginning of our lives to the end ; neither is the guilt of sin taken away , while men remain in the act of sin , as falsly was affirmed by s. s. contrary to job 10. 14. if i sin , then thou markest me , and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity . and to be sure , men whilst sinners , are not made righteous , nor yet in a sanctified state , while actually sinfull : for while our opposers confess , that justification and sanctification are inseparable ; and that we are not justified without the work of sanctification in us ; how do they break the neck of their own cause , in their pleading , that men are imputatively righteous and justified , and actively sinfull ? this is a pleasant conceit to sooth up hypocrites ; but when they come to see and feel the end of this doctrine to be destruction , they will not be able to sooth themselves up with it in hell ; nor to tell god then , that though they be really in hell , yet they are imputatively in heaven ; this their imagined imputation ( without the living enjoyment of the righteousness of faith within , or the fellowship of christ's sufferings ) will not save them from the sence of anguish and torment , when it comes upon them that live and die in their sins . s. s. i prove that the righteousness by which we are saved is not within , but without ; the saints were arrayed in white robes ; and are not thy garments outward ? ( george ) do we not wear our cl●thes on our bodies ? you do not wear your garments within you , but without you , &c. reply , this is such an argument , as we never heard , nor read of before , because the righteousness of christ is compared to a garment , or to white robes ; he concludes it not within , but without ; it appears he will let sin have a place within , and plead for it , but not christ's righteousness : doth he think it is his garment , while he 'll not receive it within ? surely , he 's gr●sly mistaken : and might he not as well say , that christ , and the armour of god , or light , is not to be within , because to be put on ; and then , after this manner , he may as well say , that neither faith nor salvation , nor the word of god are to be within , but without only , which were gross error and ignorance ; for the meek are clothed with salvation ; the upright put on zeal for a cloak , and righteousness for a garment ; are not these within ? surely , yes , where truth reigns in the heart ▪ vi. here follows some of s. s. his manifest contradictions for the readers to take notice of . contraditions . we are to turn our backs upon the light within , as insufficient , and follow the scriptures as the full rule , &c. it is by the spiritual enlightning of the understanding , that the scriptures are known . [ in his prayer ] grant , o lord , that error , may be burnt up by thy holy spirit , as by fire , &c. contr. the scriptures are the only rule to guide us to heaven , &c. i mean the will of god contained in them , not the writings abstractively . contr. the light that is in every man is not a full rule . yet a light of the spirit of god. contr. we sinners are justified by the righteousness of christ imputed , or absolved from all our sins , from the beginning of our lives to the end . justification is to make righteous ; it is by the righteousness of faith justified persons are sanctified . contr. the guilt of our sins is taken away , not the act of sin . [ his brother priest contradicted him ] viz. men are not actually sinners after justification ; [ contradiction ] yet they sin , &c. contradictions . believers are justified by the passive obedience of christ upon earth , ( that is , by both his outward and inward suffering ) not by his righteousness within . yet we are not justified without the work of sanctification in us — he hath brought in everlasting righteousness — christ's passive obedience or sufferings on earth were temporary . contr. this light that is in every man doth not dictate that justification is by christ's righteousness only . yet it is a light of the spirit of god — — the spirit makes application to us of christ's everlasting righteousness . robert ludgater , william allen , jo. furly , jun. john childe , giles barnadiston , george witherley . a brief and scriptural examination of the doctrine concerning election and reprobation of persons ; as held by presbyterians , and some others . and now concerning that private opinion of personal election and reprobation from all eternity , held by presbyterian priests , and some others related to them ; their principle may be seen in their confession of faith and catechisms , agreed on by the assembly of divines ( so called ) at westminster , and approved by the general assembly of the kirk of scotland , as where they say in their third chapter of their confession , that god from all eternity , did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will freely and unchangeable ordain whatsoever comes to pass — and that by the decree of god , for the manifestation of his glory , some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life , and others fore-ordained unto everlasting death ; and that these angels and men thus predestinated and fore-ordained , are particularly , and unchangeably design'd , and their number so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished , &c. and also , upon the same principle , they add in chapter ten , that all those whom god hath predestinated unto life , and those only he is pleased effectually to call by his word and spirit out of the state of sin and death , in which they are by nature , to grace and salvation by jesus christ , enlightning their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of god , &c. and in chapter eleven , god did from all eternity decree to justifie all the elected ; and christ did in the fulness of time die for their sins , and rise again for their justification , &c. observe , that it is upon this opinion of a particular personal election and reprobation of such certain designed number of persons , that these priests , and professors do ground their doctrine of saving-grace , or light , being but intended and given to a few , whom ( they suppose ) are designed for salvation , as also , that grace is only free for that few , and that christ died , and satisfied only for that select number , according to their principle ; and that justification by christ's righteousness , imputed , is only designed for that select number ; the rest that they reckon god with-holdeth mercy from , passeth by , as having ordained them to everlasting death and wrath , he withholdeth both saving light and grace from them ; so that they cannot avoid hell and damnation , what ever they do , according to this their principle . answ. the consequences and effects of this doctrine have been very sad ; first , in rendring god the decreer and designer of the destruction of the greater part of man-kind . secondly , it renders him the author of sin and iniquity , which is the cause of destruction , in that they here accuse him , as ordaining what ever comes to pass . thirdly , it renders him both partial and cruel unto his own workmanship . fourthly , it makes void the free extent of god's love and grace to man-kind , and his sending his son into the world ; as also , renders the preaching of the gospel to every creature to be of no use , nor real intent , for the good of the greater part of man-kind ; so that priests of this perswasion might stop their mouthes , and people never spend their money for their preaching any more . fifthly , this their narrow and partial opinion hath been an engine for satan to work upon , to the causing many poor souls to dispair of ever having the benefit of saving-grace , or light , when they have believed death and damnation to be unalterably designed for them . sixthly , it hath pufft up a few conceited professors , as presbyterians , independants , and others , in secret pride , and self-confidence , as being more regarded of god , then all others , supposing themselves from eternity to be elected , and grace and salvation , or the benefits of christ's sufferings and death only to be free for them , when their states and conditions are as sinfull , corrupt and bad ( with pride and covetousness ) as others ; and therefore against them , their narrow spirit , principle , and partial opinion , in this matter , we do in general lay down a few plain scriptures , which , with many more , might be produced for the same purpose , on the behalf of god , and his goodness to man , and how equal his wayes are , and how mans own iniquity and sin being continued in , without repentance , is his ruin . as first , genesis chap. 2. vers . 16 , 17. and the lord god commanded the man , saying , of every tree of the garden thou mayst eat , but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , thou shalt not eat of it ; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die , &c. where note , that god was neither the ordainer , nor author of mans transgression , which brought death , and occasioned his being driven out of paradice , chap. 3. ver . 23 , 24. but god gave man a plain prohibition , command and warning to the contrary ; so that god did not secretly design or decree touching man , contrary to his own pure and equal law given to man. gen. 4. 6 , 7. and the lord said unto cain , why art thou wroth ? and why is thy countenance faln ? if thou do well , shalt thou not be accepted ? and if thou do not well sin lieth at thy door : so that it is evident here , that god did not particularly design either that cain should do evil , nor yet decree his eternal death from eternity , seeing that in well doing he might have had acceptance ; but his evil doing was the cause of his misery . deut. 30. 15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 , 20. see , i have set before thee this day life and good : i call heaven and earth this day to witness against you , that i have set before you life and death , blessing and cursing ; therefore chuse life , &c : and see vers . 17 , 18. but if thy heart turn away , i denounce unto you this day , that you shall surely perish , &c. where mark , that life and death was set before them , that they might chuse life , and refuse death : but , if god had particularly decreed them for death and destruction , it had been a mockery to bid them chuse life , if they could never have it : and if he had absolutely elected them from eternity for life eternal , why should it be denounced against them , that they should surely perish , if their hearts turned away from the lord ? were it not an impertinent vain thing , to warn persons of such a danger , if they were absolutely secured from being liable to any such danger ? nehem. 9. 20 , 26. thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them , and with-heldest not thy manna from their mouth ; nevertheless , they were disobedient , and rebelled against thee , and cast thy law behind their backs , and slew thy prophets , &c. where , note , that god gave his good spirit unto them , who rebelled , the persecutors of his prophets ; and if such had the good spirit given them , surely , none are excepted , but all have so much of the true light or spirit of god given them , as shall leave them without excuse . psal. 81. 11 , 12. but my people would not hearken to my voice ; nor israel would none of me ; so i gave them up to their own hearts lust , and they walked in their own counsels : see here , they refusing to hearken to the voice of god ; and their refusing him was the cause of his giving them up to their own lusts and evil counsels , and not any partial secret decree concerning them . isa. 63. 10. but they rebelled and vexed his holy spirit ; therefore he was turned to be their enemy , and he fought against them : here their rebelling and vexing the holy spirit of god , was the cause of his turning to be their enemy , and warring against them ; surely , then god was their friend before he turned to be their enemy , in that he had befriended them with his own spirit . 2 chron. 15. 15. then the spirit of god came upon azariah the son of obed , and he went out to meet asa , and said unto him ; o asa , and all judah and benjamin , hear ye me , the lord is with you , while ye be with him ; if ye seek him , he will be found of you ; but if ye forsake him , he will forsake you : so that it is mens forsaking of god first , for which cause he forsakes them ; and man forsakes the lord before the lord forsake him ; and is not this a falling from grace to forsake the lord. isa. 1. 19 , 20. if you be willing and obedient , ye shall eat the good of the land ; but if you refuse and rebel , ye shall be devoured with the sword : and ver . 28. the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together , and they that forsake the lord shall be consumed : where , mark upon what terms god promised good unto them ; and what was the cause of destruction , but rebellion and forsaking the lord : see likewise jer. 12. 17. ezek. 18. 20. the soul that sinneth , it shall die . verse 23. have i any pleasure at all that the wicked should die , saith the lord god , &c. verse 25. hear , o house of israel , is not my way equal ? are not your wayes unequal ? and see verses 26 , 27 , 28 , 29. again , vers . 30. repent , and turn your selves from all your trangressions , so iniquity shall not be your ruin . and verse 32. for i have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth , saith the lord god ; wherefore turn your selves and live ye . and hosea 13. 9. oh , israel , thou hast destroyed thy self , but in me is thy help . see how evidently , in these passage , god is cleared , both in warning them , and in that he willeth not , nor hath pleasure in their destruction ; and how iniquity is the ruin of them that continue in it ; and not any secret design or decree of god , contrary to his own testimony given by his holy prophets , concerning his good will for the recovery of man out of iniquity ; as also , see ezek. 33. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. what is the cause of peoples destruction , and how their blood shall be upon their own heads that do not take warning ; and now lets a little take notice of the testimony of christ and his ministers : as first , john 3. 16 , 17. for god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son ; that whosoever believe in him should not perish , but have everlasting life : for god sent not his son into the world , to condemn the world , but that the world through him might be saved . surely , then god did not from eternity design or decree the destruction of the greater part of the world , for that had contradicted the end of sending his son. john 12. 46. i am come a light into the world , that whosoever believe on me should not abide in darkness : so here it is manifest , that christ is freely given a light to those that are in darkness , that whosoever believeth on him ( it is not that a designed or select number of persons only ) should not abide in darkness , but whosoever believeth , &c. and see the testimony given of him john 1. 9 , that was the the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world ; it is not said , which lighteth only a select small number . 2 cor. 5 14 , 15. for the love of christ constraineth us , because we thus judge , that if one died for all , then were all dead ; and that he died for all , that they which live , should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him which died for them , and rose again . 1 tim. 2. 5 , 6. for there is one god , and one mediator between god and man , the man christ jesus , who gave himself a ransom for all , to be testified of in due time . hebr. 2. 9. but we see jesus , who is made a little lower then the angels , for the suffering which death , crowned with glory and honour , that he by the grace of god should taste death for every man. 1 john 2. and he is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. in all which passages observe , that the free and universal love , grace , and good-will of god in christ , is testified in the suffering , death or sacrifice of christ , for all that were dead , for every man , for the sins of the whole world ; it is not said , that he died only for a few , or for a small number , elected from eternity , but for all men ; and gave himself a ransom for all , for a testimony in due time : and therefore away with such doctrines and opinions as oppose the free extent of the grace of god and light of christ , which universally is given to all man-kind ; and do not blame or lay the fault upon god any longer , as either decreeing mans destruction , or the cause of it ; but lay it in the right place , upon the rebellious and transgressors , who hate the light and love darkness rather , see john 3. 19 , 20. object . but some object , that god loved jacob , and hated esau , before they were born , or had done good or evil . reply , what then did he hate esau for ? for any to suppose he hated him for nothing , or without cause , is to render god cruel and unequal in his wayes ; but those that thus object do both grosly mistake , and misplace the words : for that which was said before the children were born , was , the elder shall serve the younger , ( the mystery whereof is only known , where the two seeds , or two births are known ) rom. 9. 12. and then follows , as it is written , jacob have i loved , and esau have i hated ; but where was it written before paul mentioned it , it was not written or spoken to either isaac or rebekah ; but it was written many hundred years after concerning their successors , to wit , those of israel and edom , by the prophet malachi , chap. 1. and those whom god hated were the same people , that was called , the border of wickedness , the people against whom the lord had indignation for ever ; so that it was because of their wickedness that the indignation of god was against them . object . again , some object , that god hath mercy on whom he will , and whom he will be hardneth ; hath not the potter power over the clay ? &c. reply , god hath concluded them all in unbelief , that he might shew mercy upon all ; it is his universal love and good will in the first place , to tender and shew mercy in his own son unto all both jews and gentiles , but it is his justice to give them up to hardness and unbelief who reject and oppose his free love and tenders of mercy ; for what can be the reason of hardning some , seeing this hardning is a judgment upon them , in time ? not particularly or partially design'd from eternity , ( as to particular persons simply ) for it s no reason for any to say , that he will harden some , because he will hearden them ; but because its just for him so to do , they having provoked him , and grieved his holy spirit in them ; see zachariah 7. 11 , 12. but they refuse to hearken , and pull'd away the shoulder , and stopped their ears , that they should not hear ; yea , they made their hearts as an adamant-stone , &c. therefore came a great wrath from the lord of hosts . and as for his having power over the works of his hands , as the potter hath over the clay ; who questions that ? but though he made or formed man , as man , or as his creature , he did not make him , nor ordain him to be a sinfull rebellious man ; god is not his potter , or former , into sin , but the devil ; which , if man continue in , against his maker , without repentance , then his end , which is destruction , is determined : for , wo unto him that striveth with his maker ; let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth ; shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it , what makest thou ? wo unto him that sayeth unto his father , what begettest thou , & c ? isa. 45. 9 , 10. surely , god did not make man to strive against himself , nor yet to question , or suppose evil against his workmanship , for he is not the author of sin ; and it is because of iniquity that god hides his face , and consumes people , who are the clay , and he the potter , isa. 64. 7 , 8. now , to be sure , god doth not find fault with any thing that is proper to his own workmanship ; nor doth he consume any , meerly as his own workmanship , but because of iniquity ; see also jer. 18. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12. by which these partial opinionated professors are absolutely confuted ; besides , it is such as like not to retain god in their knowledge , whom he gives over to a reprobate mind , rom. 1. 21 , 28. wherefore we advise all , who tender their own salvation , not to be byassed or prejudiced with private and corrupt opinions of men of corrupt minds , nor yet to reject or dispise the free grace , or light , of jesus , which is freely tendred and given unto all ; but every one wait in it , and mind its appearance in your hearts , that thereby your understandings may be opened , that you may come to know the election in christ , as chosen in him to be holy , and without blame ( this election we own ) and be conformed unto his image , even the image of the son of god , and know him as the first-born among many brethren , as those that are chosen in him , through the sanctification of the spirit , and belief of the truth , to be holy , and without blame before him , which is a high and precious state that many are short of who conceit and pretend themselves to be elect persons , when yet they are polluted , unsanctified , unregenerate , unholy , impure , unfaithfull to god , rejecting the elect seed , the elect and precious stone ; therefore their foundation is sandy , their building shattered , and the lord our god is risen to stain their glory , and the pride of all flesh , and yet more to confound all empty and babilonish professions , that are set in opposition to his glorious appearance in this his day . g. w. the moderate reader is desired to correct some errors that have escaped the press , whether they be words , letters or points , and not impute them to the authors . page 11. l. 8. read of these . p. 12. l. 37. for affirmed , r. answered . p. 18. l. 12. for no wit , r. now it . p. 21. l. 11. r. as for . l. 34. dele yet . p. 22. l. 17. for to the , dele the. p. 23. l. 33. for bare , r. bear . p. 26. l. 1. blot out them . p. 31. l. 11. r. trees . p. 34. l. 18. r. chap. 1. p. 39. understand , or add to the names subscribed ; viz. witnesses that these are the priests contradictions . p. 44. l. 4. r. passages . l. 37. for which , r. and. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a65867-e2860 priest. notes for div a65867-e5100 note . observation . rom. 11. 32. a discourse concerning puritans. a vindication of those, who uniustly suffer by the mistake, abuse, and misapplication of that name. a tract necessary and usefull for these times. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a88100 of text r15236 in the english short title catalog (thomason e204_3). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 132 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 31 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a88100 wing l1875 thomason e204_3 estc r15236 99859827 99859827 111926 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a88100) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 111926) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 36:e204[3]) a discourse concerning puritans. a vindication of those, who uniustly suffer by the mistake, abuse, and misapplication of that name. a tract necessary and usefull for these times. ley, john, 1583-1662, attributed name. parker, henry, 1604-1652, attributed name. [2], 58 p. printed for robert bostock, [london] : 1641. variously attributed to henry parker and john ley. annotation on thomason copy: "by henry parker a cou[n]sellor". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng puritans -england -early works to 1800. dissenters, religious -england -early works to 1800. a88100 r15236 (thomason e204_3). civilwar no a discourse concerning puritans.: a vindication of those, who uniustly suffer by the mistake, abuse, and misapplication of that name. a tra [ley, john] 1641 23125 3 10 0 0 0 0 6 b the rate of 6 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-06 pip willcox sampled and proofread 2007-06 pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discovrse concerning puritans . a vindication of those , who uniustly suffer by the mistake , abuse , and misapplication of that name . a tract necessary and usefull for these times . printed for robert bostock , 1641. a discovrse concerning puritans . it is a common maxim amongst politicians , that a state is mayntained by accusations , but ruined by calumnies : and therefore ( says marquis malvezzi ) happy shall the subjects be of that wise prince , which countenances accusations , and checks calumnies : for the suffering of accusations to goe lesse in repute , and calumnies to get footing , hath beene the encrease of manslaughter , and the continuance of enmity in all ages . many believe that nothing which is done would be knowne , if this means of dispersing privy calumnious speeches were not used , whereas little is known because it is used : for falshood constantly affirmed for truth sometimes deceives , and when it does not , but is knowne to be falshood , yet it forces to some suspension of judgment , and makes us yield some way even to that which we believe not . this is most apparent at this day in this kingdome in the case of puritans , for did accusation and legall processe take place , few crimes would be proved against puritans , and did not malicious calumny prevaile , as few men would be proved puritans , whereas now nothing is so monstrous , which is not branded upon puritans , and no man is so innocent as to escape that brand . so great also is the audacitie of those which lacerate the fames of puritans , & with so much confidence doe they vent their obloquies , that they which know the falsity thereof , & easily perceive that the same aspersions are more truly due to the autors and raisers of them , yet they are dazeled , and driven to some doubtfull admittance thereof . neither could this audacity be so prevalent amongst the vulgar , but that scholars , and the greatest of the clergie are now become the most injurious detesters & depravers of puritans , having taken up in pulpits and presses , almost as vile and scurrilous a licence of fiction and detraction , as is usuall in play-houses , taverns , and bordelloes . some men divide generally all protestants into puritans , and antipuritans , but i shall admit of subdivisions in both , for all men are not alike , which either affect or disaffect , either puritans or antipuritans . antipuritans i shall thus divide . some antipuritans are so termed meerly because they are no puritans , but such i dislike not , for i my selfe am neither the one nor other , i neither merit the name of puritan , neither doe i hate them so as to professe my selfe a antipuritan . others are accounted antipuritans , because they are of the romish religion , and so professe themselves , but their enmity is but a due antipathy , and as a necessary consequence of their religion , and such i take no notice of , i think puritans expect no other from them . others againe there are which are very averse from some puritanicall tenets , and hold puritans in very many things erroneous , but yet they meane well themselves , and beare no hatred to the persons of puritans , they allow puritans sound in the most and waightiest matters of faith , they hold dissent in disputable things no ground of malice , and they attribute no infallibility to themselves in those things wherein they dissent : from these men i am but little removed . the worst sort of antipuritans , and they which ought only to be so called , are they which bitterly hate and persecute many good men under the name of puritans , and many good things in those which are puritans , whose antipathy is to mens persons , as well as opinions , and in opinions those which are sound , as well as those which are erroneous . these are the antipuritans which i shall now strive to detect , whom i hold to be of great number and power in the state at this day , whom wee may account the chiefest causers , and procurers of all those mischiefs and plagues which now incumber both church & commonwealth , and to be guilty of all those crimes , which falsly they charge upon puritans , being therein like caesars enemies , which therefore only hated him , because they had deserved hatred from him . by such antipuritans is all love to goodnesse and zeal to the protestant religion , and all hatred of vice , and dislike of popish superstition , brought into contempt . for as they admit all true of puritans which papists object against protestants , so they account all protestants almost ( besides their own faction ) puritans . by such is the religion of the scots made ridiculous ; by such is the amity of the two nations , and therein the honour and safety of the king his crowne , and progeny much indangered . by such is calvin , and the reformers of our religion for hearkning therein to calvin , traduced , and another reformation attempted , by such is antiquity preferred to obscure scripture , uniformity in ceremonies to the disadvantage of unity in hearts ; by such is the outside and walls of religion trimmed and decored , whilst the soule thereof is neglected , or defaced ; by such is the kings heart stolne from his subjects , and the subjects estranged from the king : by such is the name of royalty pretended whilst a papall hierarchy only is intended ; by such is dissention nourished in the state , that they may fish in troubled waters : by such is truth in other men styled faction , and faction in themselves styled truth ; by such are innovations preached and printed for necessary points , whilst necessary doctrines in other men are prohibited . in the power of such it now remayns to teach and publish all things consonant to their owne ends , and to quash and silence all gainsayers , and either to promote or detrude all suiters for preferment at their discretion being absolutely possessed of presses , pulpits , and the eares of great men ; by such are many good men reviled and oppessed for their constancie to the true religion , whilst many factious , semipopish dunces are unduly preferred every where for neutrality in religion , or some worse innovation ; by such are puritans made as sinkes and sewers to unlode and discharge their own filth into , whilst their black railing tongues expume nothing against puritans , but what is true of themselves . these things ( if i am not deceived ) will appeare in this ensuing discourse . in all ages true religion hath been odious amongst heathens , and true devotion amongst sensualists , judaisme appear'd to painims meere superstition : christianity seemed to the jews grosse blasphemy : and now amongst christians protestantisme is nothing else but heresie : and amongst protestants zeale is misnamed puritanisme ; but in this word puritanisme is a greater mystery of defamation then ever was before , it may well bee called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it is a word , of depravation , fit only for these times wherein the shine of the gospell is at the brightest , and the malice of satan at the highest . this word sprung up almost with the reformation , no sooner had the woman brought forth , but the serpent pursued her to devoure her issue , and she being fled into the wildernesse , this streame of infamy was spued forth after her to overtake her . the bishop of downe in ireland , in his visitation speech 1638 , endevours to make it credited , that puritans have increased since the reformation by degrees , both in number and malice : but the contrary is most apparently true . dissent in ecclesiasticall policie about ceremonies and other smaller matters , being not of the substance of religion , first gave occasion to raise this reprochfull word puritan in the church : but since that time mens minds being better satisfied , & peace being more firmly setled about those indifferent things , the more few puritans remayned , and the more moderately those few became inclined , the more furiously their enemies raged against them . bastwick , prin , and burton , the only men which law can take hold of , are names now as horrid in the world , as garnet , faux , ravilliack , precisians have now wonne the scene from jesuites : poysoning of emperours , massacring of provinces , blowing up of parliaments are all now growne into oblivion , and drown'd in the stories of ceremony-haters . howsoever as amongst antipuritans , so amongst puritans ( it must be confessed ) there are some differences to be observed . some puritans thinke all puritans alike to be loved , and all antipuritans alike to be hated , but sure there is truer affinity in minde betweene some which are puritans , and some which are not , then between some puritans and others , or some of the contrary opinion and others . paul unconverted equally opposes peter as simon magus does , and in regard of this joynt opposition , both are unanimous , but even in this opposition both have their opposite ends . magus opposes maliciously for ambition and lucres sake , but paul ignorantly seeking thereby the same gods honour whom peter serves in a truer way . therefore in regard of the mayne end , there is more unity and consent betwixt paul the persecuter , and peter the persecuted , then betwixt paul and magus , though both persecuters of the same cause . the like is now visible in england , for every man which is an antipuritan , is not so for the same reasons , some have more of malice , others are more ignorant , some are pestilent engineers , and through the sides of puritans knowingly stab at purity it selfe , others are but engines misimployed , or by their own blind zeale misled , and these perhaps whilst they persecute gods children , imagine they doe god a gratefull service therein . in samaria , from an unkindly mixture of israelites and syrians , a strange heterogeneous of-spring different in religion from both did arise ; and the like is now in england , nay , it may be said here ( as it was in constantines dayes ) there are almost as many religions as opinions , and as many opinions as men . papists have their differences , protestants theirs , therefore needs there must be many more differences where papists and protestants live so confusedly blended together . for examples sake , how many differences have we even about indifferent ceremonies ; and that meerly amongst protestants ? some men loath ceremonies out of antipathy to popery , which too superstitously extols them ; others again admire them for antiquities sake , which before popery innocently ( yea , and perhaps profitably for those infant times of the gospell ) used them . these two sorts of men , though different , are not dangerous . again , some men are thought to disrelish ceremonies out of stomack to that autority which commands them ; but if there be any such , i think they are very few , and scarce visible to the eye of man . others on the contrary give reverence to them for poperies sake , which depends so much upon them ; and i feare there are many such amongst us . againe , some men stand devoted to ceremonies , as they are the lightest things of the law ; like the tythers of mint and annis in the gospell , embracing them instead of weightier matters , and none are more unmercifull then these to scrupulous minded men . others in the meane while account all things of the same moment , both great and small , pretending to spie some faults , and some truths on either side , and therefore they hold it indifferent to assent to either , or dissent from either in any point whatsoever . but the wisest sort conceive there may be errours on both sides , but not alike grosse and pernicious , and therefore such eschew the wrong , and apply themselves to the right in either side , yet neither honour , nor despise either side alike . and these instances shew that all men doe not professe , or condemne puritanisme alike , or from the same ends , and yet in the chaos of this country , as things now stand , frigida cum calidis pugnant , humentia siccis , mollia cum duris , sine pondere habentia pondus . i could wish therefore that all well meaning men would take notice of these things , and affect by reason , not passion ; for since some good men are puritans , and not all , and since some ill men are puritans , and not all , this ought not to be a rule of love and hatred in all cases alike . that which is most objected to puritans , is fury , faction , and hypocrisie : if i see these in a man reputed no puritan , yet to mee hee is a puritan : and if i see not these in a man reputed a puritan , as to mee he is no puritan . if gracchus be invective against sedition , i censure him by his actions , uot by his words , and if cato be accused of mutiny , i censure him by himselfe , not by his accusers , i condemne none meerly because condemned by others ; for it is usuall for the wolfe to sit on the bench & condemne the lambe at bar , for that which is most proper to the wolfe most unnatural to the lambe , and yet this proves the wolfe the more a wolfe , and the lambe the more a lambe . i cannot but professe it , there is nothing more scandalizes me at this time , then to see puritans being so few in number , so despicable in condition . so harmlesse in example , so blamelesse in opinion , yet sentenced and condemned in judgment , as if they were the greatest incendiaries , and the only innovators in the christian world . doctor heylyn a violent pamphleter against puritans , calls burton the great dictator of puritans , and the law hath past upon him with great severity , yet burtons crime was that hee wrote against altar-worship , and it was adjudged that his style was seditious . it is not manifest that his intention was seditious therein , and if it was so , it is manifest that he was most vaine and absurd therein as our state is now establisht , and as our king is generally revered . they which pretend great danger to the king likely to ensue out of such paper machinations as these , may have three mischievous ends therein . first , that they may be thought the only solicitous men of the kings safety . secondly , that they may disparage the common peoples loyalty . thirdly , that they may crush their adverse puritanicall party ; but , it is thought , they which pretend most danger hereby to the king : doe least believe themselves , and therefore they doe spin that disaffection and division out of the sufferings of burton , which his attempts could never have effected . let us then a little farther search into the mysterious abuse , and misapplication of this word puritan . those whom we ordinarily call puritans are men of strict life , and precise opinions , which cannot be hated for any thing but their singularity in zeale and piety , and certainly the number of such men is too small , and their condition too low , and dejected : but they which are the devils chiefe artificers in abusing this word , when they please can so stretch , and extend the same that scarce any civill honest protestant which is hearty and true to his religion can avoid the aspersion of it , and when they list againe , they can so shrink it into a narrow sense , that it shall seem to be aimed at none but monstrous abominable heretickes and miscreants . thus by its latitude it strikes generally , by its contraction it pierces deeply , by its confused application it deceives invisibly . small scruples first intitle mee to the name of puritan , and then the name of puritan intitles me further to all mischiefe whatsoever . the scots rise up against episcopacie , it is questioned by some , whether they so rise up , for the good of religion , or for the overthrow of wholsome discipline . answer is soone made , that episcopacie cannot be unpleasing to any but puritans , there is no opinion can smell sharper of puritanisme , then that of a church parity , and of puritans what good can be expected ? but the scots also desire redresse in other grievances , and here their intention is againe question'd . answer is as soone made again , that the scots being declared open puritans , they must needs be enemies to monarchicall government , and that no redresse can ever satisfie them , but such as shall debase royall dignity , and establish a popular rule amongst them . but some of the scots in some actions doe very much misdemeane themselves , and here it 's thought by some , that this ought not to redound to the prejudice , or blame of the whole nation : but strait the antipuritan steps in againe with answer to the former purpose , that the same faction which makes them all puritans , makes them all mutiners , and that there is no trust to be given , nor favour shewed to any whose very religion is disobedience . other the like examples may be instanced in . parliaments of late in england have beene jealous of religion , this laudable zeale made them at first come into contempt as puritanical , and then the imputation of puritanisme made this laudable zeale contemptible ; and so by degrees , as any thing else might be charged upon puritans , as disobedience , and disaffection to monarchy , so nothing could bee charged but proceeding from puritanisme . some scrupulous opinions make say , brooks , puritans , puritanisme inferres them mutineers , mutinie makes all that they can doe or say , all that they forbeare to doe , or say , it makes their very thoughts wicked and perverse . thus wee see what a confused imposture there is in this infamous terme of puritan : but we will yet further evidence by plaine instance how broad the devils net is in the vast application of this word , and how deepe his pit is by its abominable sense , and the nature of its importance , that we may the better discover that net which intangles so many , & shun that pit which ingulphs so sure . puritans ( as i said before ) were at first ecclesiasticall only , so called because they did not like a pompous or ceremoneous kinde of discipline in the church like unto the romish : but now it is come about , that by a new enlargement of the name , the world is full of nothing else but puritans , for besides the puritan in church policie , there are now added puritans in religion , puritans in state , and puritans in morality . by this meanes whole kingdoms are familiarly upbrayded with this sinne of puritanisme : as for example , all in scotland which wish well to the covenant , though some papists , some courtiers , and almost all the whole body without exception have now declared themselves for it , yet all these are manifest puritans . so also in england , all the commons in parliament , and almost all the ancient impartiall temporall nobility , and all such as favour or rellish the late proceedings of both the houses , which is the mayne body of the realme , papists , prelates , and courtiers excepted , nay , and its likely all scotland , and more then halfe ireland , all these are puritans . they which deprave this great councell of the kingdome , suggest to the k. that the major part is gull'd and dorde by the puritan party ; but this is only because they are ashamed to speake it out openly in grosse termes , that all the major and better part in the court of parliament is puritanicall . but this suggestion is utterly false and impossible , for such as the major part in parliament is , such are those that chose them and sent them thither , and such are those that now approve their actions there , and both in the elections of parliament men , and in the consultations of parliament affaires , the kings party is as wise , cautious , and vigilant ( if not more ) as the other party , and no subtilty could circumvent or cheat them out of their votes , if the puritans were so small and inconsiderable a side , as now they make them . no man of what capacity so ever can admit this , it is to all undeniable , that the blame of a parliament , is the blame of the whole kingdome . but i returne to my ecclesiasticall puritan . though it be true that ecclesiasticall puritans are fewes now , then heretofore they have been , yet it is as true that ecclesiasticall puritanisme is made a larger thing by farre then it was , being now spread abroad like a net to ensnare the more , as our many late additions and innovations testifie , which have crept into the church ( as may be scared ) for the vexation and molestation of such men as were not disquieted with former ceremonies . it is generally suspected , that our prelates have aymed at two things in the novelties which they have lately induced into the church ; first , the suppression of those which are enemies to their pride , avarice , and ambition , by them termed puritans : secondly , their owne further case , promotion , and advantage . both these ends seeme to be leveld at in sanctifying the altar , and unsanctifying the lords day , in advancing auricular confession , and corporall penances by externall mortifications , and crying downe lecturing , and preaching ; for if we marke it , these new doctrines doe not only serve to terrifie and scandalize tender consciences , and thereby to deprive , and silence many painfull good ministers , and to scare away into forreigne plantations , whole troups of laymen , and to enwrap the rest in opposition : but each of these doctrines besides hath a further reach in it of benefit to the clergie . the communion table hath lately gained a new name , a new nature , a new posture , a new worship that emperours and kings may be brought again to take notice how far the persous and offices of priests excell in sanctity the persons and offices of princes . theodosius within one hundred yeares after prelacie began to arrogate to it selfe was presently taught this lesson , for taking his seat in the chancell according to the easterne and ancient fashion , a deacon was sent to him in great state , to let him understand that none but men in holy orders might presume to set their feet on that sacred ground . this was then the bishops law , not the emperours , nor knowne in any other of his dominions , but italy only , but sure it was fit discretion , that much should bee ascribed by bishops to that place , from which they were to derive much , and which wonld be sure to repay their homage with so great an advantage of homage back againe . preaching is now also grown too burthensome , and the lords day to priests according to that sanctity which puritans allow it , it requires too much praying , preaching , singing , which are not only to them tedious but also apt means to encrease , and foment puritanisme amongst the people . auricular confession also is a godly devise to bring the laity into subjection , and to make the people bow before the power of the keyes , and it may aptly force the consciences of kings themselves to feare the scourges of gowned men . adde lastly mr. wats his bodily mortification to mr. sparrows confession , and then laymen will be soone inured againe to finde out the fittest penances , especially praesbyteris , & ars advolvi , and so in time their purses , their bodies , their consciences shall all bee made sensible of the spirituall scepter of priests . it s no great wonder then if our court divines , and their dependents doe what they can to draw us neerer daily towards popery , under shew of antiquity , uniformity , and charity , for ( without all doubt ) of all religions , popery is the most beneficiall to priests , most tyrannous to laymen . neither is it strange that they pretend so much zeale to devotion to the kings crowne and prerogative , as things now stand in england , as if none truly affected the same but themselves , for its cleare , that they cannot subject the people but by the king , nor the king without the people : and so long as they stand possessed of the kings good opinion , no man shall have power to confute them . king jawes is a great instance for antipuritans , and a great prop to the episcopall cause , it s alleadged of him that hee hated puritans for their hatred to episcopacie , and loved episcopacie for its amity to monarchie : his aphorisme was , no bishop , no king : let us therefore appeale from king james in their words to king james in his owne . in his preface before his basilicon doron his words are : the style of puritans properly belongs to that vile sect of the anabaptists only called the family of love . such were browne , penry . howbeit there are others which participate too much with anabaptists contemning civill magistrates , &c. it is only this sott of men which i wish my sonne to punish in case they refuse to obey law , and cease not to stirre up rebellion . but i protest upon mine honour , i meane it not generally of all preachers or others , which like better of the single forme of policie in our church of scotland , then of the many ceremonies in the church of england , which are perswaded that bishops smell of a papall supremacie , that surplices , caps , &c. are outward badges of popish errours . no , i am so farre from being contentious in these indifferent things , that i doe equally love and honour the learned and grave of either opinion . it can no wayes become mee to pronounce sentence so lightly in so old a controversie . since wee all agree in grounds , the bitternesse of men in such questions doth but trouble the peace of the church , and give advantage to papists by our division . these were the golden words of that peacefull , just prince upon his second thoughts : ô that they were now duly pondred , and taken to pieces word for word ! ô that they were esteemed and understood in their own weight amongst us , that they might reconcile our present differences , and that the same peace which followed him to his glorious urne , might still blesse these our times ! o how contrary are these milde words to the unnaturall suggestions of antipuritans ! such as daily accuse all good men for precisians , and all precise men for puritans , and all puritans for the only firebrands of the world , thus arming the king against his subjects , and by consequence raising subjects against the king : puritans here are described both what they are , and what they are not , the king had been misinterpreted before , writing generally of puritans , now to avoid all mistake , hee expresses himselfe plainly and definitely . a puritan positively in king james his sense , is he which imitates anabaptists in rebellion , turbulence , and opposition to law , and such are liable to law ; but negatively a puritan in the acception of king james , is not hee which dislikes episcopacy , or the ceremonious discipline of england . this king james protests upon his honour , though to his great dishonour hee be now often cited to the contrary . as for those which rellish not bishops and ceremonies or the english policie , he wishes them to be at peace only with those of the opposite opinion , hee himselfe vowing equall love and honour to the grave , and learned of either side , and not taking upon him to bee a judge in so old , and difficult a controversie ; he only like a sweet arbitrator perswades both parties to peace and amity . i wish our bishops would now stand to this arbitration , i wish they would neither condemne the scotch discipline , nor urge the english ; i wish they would put difference betweene seditious and scrupulous puritans , and not inferre the one out of the other ; i wish they would either disclaim king james as a manifest favourer of puritans , or else imitate him in the same definition , and opinion of them . k. james further takes notice , that the reformation in scotland was far more disorderly , then in england , denmark , &c. whilst the mayne affaires there were unduly carried by popular tumults , and by some fiery-spirited ministers , which having gotten the guiding of the multitude , and finding the relish of government sweet , did fancie to themselves a democratick forme of policy , wherein they were likely to be tribuni plebis . that the crown might be disincombred of these usurping ringleaders , the king advises the prince to entertaine and advance godly , learned , and modest ministers , promoting them to bishopricks , but restrayning them heedfully from pride , ambition , and avarice . these things then are hence observable . 1. scotland differs from england in turbulent ministers : secondly , this is imputed to the iniquity of the times , not to puritanisme , as if by nature the scots were more enclining to puritanisme then other nations . thirdly , notwithstanding that iniquity of those times , there was a number sufficient of worthy ministers fit for preferment . fourthly , king james erects bishops sees in scotland for peculiar reasons , and therefore he speaks not of denmark &c. lastly , notwithstanding that peculiar reason . hee advises the prince to be indifferently at war with both extreams alike , as well to represse papal bishops , as to curbe proud puritans . for ( sayes the king ) the naturall sicknesses which have ever troubled and beene the decay of all churches since the beginning changing the candlestick from one to another , have beene pride , ambition , and avarice : and these wrought the overthrow of the romish church in divers countries . k. james knew well how apt church-men had ever beene to abuse their power and pomp , what enemies they had beene to our saviour , and what a tyranny they had erected over all christendom ever since constantine almost , and therefore though hee dislikes a democracie in the church , ( as hee had reason ) yet hee so limits and circumscribes his bishops both in power and honour , that they might be as sensible of their chaines and fetters , as of their miters and crosiers . i wish k. iames had particularly signified what bonds and bounds hee thought fit to prefix to episcopacy , to preserve it from corruption , and what his opinion was of a prelacy so active in secular affaires as ours is now in england , and how it would have pleased him to see a metropolitan amongst protestants almost a rivall to the french cardinall . the world , in my opinion , hath little reason to dote upon a gowned empire , we have all smarted long enough under it , men of meane birth commonly beare preferment with little moderation , and their breeding having beene soft and esseminate , in their malice & cruelty , they neerest of all approach to the nature of women : and by the advantage of learning they extend their power , and win upon others more then they ought . when the church was at first under heathen or jewish governours , which sought as enemies to ruine it , not as fathers to protect it , they which were within could not live in peace and unity without some politicall bonds , so at that time there was a necessity of some coercive power , within besides that which was without . the world is now unsatisfied what kinde of power that was , whether episcopal or presbyteriall , or what episcopacy , or presbytery was in those dayes . yet me thinks what government so ever then was , it is not necessarily precedentary to us now . the episcopal faction at this day takes advantage by the abuses of the presbyter al , & the presbyterial by the episcopal , and most men think either the one power or the other necessary , and some more favour the episcopal as k. iames , some the presbyterial as m. calvin ; but sure the presbyterial is lesse offensive then the episcopal , and yet neither the one nor other of necessity . kings may grant usuram quandam jurisdictionis either to bishops or elders , but the jurisdiction it selfe is their owne property , from which they ought not to depart , nor can without wrong to their charge committed to them . for the power which god gives the prince , is not given for his use alone , but for the peoples benefit , so that since he cannot let it fall to decay without making it insufficient for good and entire government which is mischievous to the people , he cannot justly lessen it at all . and it is manifest that except one supream head be alone in all causes as wel ecclesiastical as civill , humane nature must needs be destitute of those remedies which are necessary for its conservation , since power cannot be divided , but it must be diminished to him which suffers that division , and being diminished it proves insufficient . all confesse some government necessary for men in holy orders , to whom the power of the keyes belongs , but some account princes but as meere temporall or lay persons , and therefore conclude against their authority over sacred ecclesiastical persons as incompetent , especially in cases meerely ecclesiasticall . for this cause spirituall governours have ever beene in the church to whom some have attributed a divine right depending from none but god , and subordinate to none but god , but this hath beene controverted by others , and no little debate and strife hath followed hereupon . but it seemes to me , that princes doe receive from god a spirituall unction , whereby not only their persons are dignified , and their hearts prepared and enlarged with divine graces fit for rule ; but their functions also innobled and sanctified above any other whatsoever , and higher advanced then the sense of laick or secular will beare . to princes an assistance of counsell is requisite in spirituall as in civill affaires , but that , that counsaile ought to bee composed onely of persons ecclesiasticall , or that those persons ought to bee invested with all those ensignes of honour and authority which our bishops now claime as of divine right , seemes not necessary . clergy-men are not alwayes the most knowing in all ecclesiasticall cases , neither are they at all indifferent and impartiall , in many which concerne their owne honour and profit , ( as the world feeles to its regret ) therefore for jurisdiction they are not the most competent . but be they of what use soever , they may still remaine subordinate , and at the princes election , and admitted of ad consilium solum , not ad consensum : and it had beene happy for all christians these many hundred yeares by-past if they had not been further hearkned to . the sacerdotall function is not at all disparaged by this subordination , for whether the order of princes be more sacred then that of bishops , or not , it is all one to priests , for an obedience they owe , and must pay , be it to the one order , or the other . our bishops at this day stand much upon their divine right of jurisdiction , and they refer their style to the providence of god immediately , not to the grace of the king : and though in words they acknowledge a supremacy of power to remain to the king ; yet indeed i think they mean rather a priority of order . whatsoever supremacy they meane , if it be not such as makes them meerely subordinate , and dependent , so that the king may limit , alter , or extinguish their jurisdiction , as far as he may to his civil judges , they derogate much from his kingly office . bishops for their claim of jurisdiction ought to prove , that they alone did exercise it over all in all causes from our saviours dayes , till the entrance of christian princes : and that being cleared , they must further prove , that those times also are leading , and precedentary to ours . in both these their proofes are lame , especially in the latter ; for neither is the power of the keyes the same thing as iurisdiction , nor is jurisdiction now as it was in the apostles dayes , nor is the state of the times , now the same as then . in those dayes either christians were to implead one another before infidel magistrates whatsoever the case were , criminall or civill , spirituall or temporall , or else they were to erect some tribunall in the church , or else they were to await no justice at all : and because some judicature within the church was most fit , therefore christ himselfe according to the exigence of those times , did indow his church with a divine oeconomy , which was partly miraculous , & of use then , but not now . the spirit of god did then internally incite such and such men at such times to reside & preside in such & such places ; and some of the apostles at some times could judge by inspiration without proofes & allegations , and could execute sentence of death or other spirituall punishment upon secret hypocrites , not intrenching upon temporall authority , but in these times this discipline is uselesse , & therfore decayed . whatsoever the offence then was , what injury or trespasse soever betwixt brother and brother , ( the only remedy was dic ecclesiae , and yet that precept serves as strong for temporall as spirituall trespasses , so that it cannot be enforced now to continue , unlesse wee meane to drowne all temporall authority . as for the extent also of spirituall power in those dayes i will onely cite a learned politician of the popish religion : who admitting ( it seemed ) that the keyes of heaven were given to saint peter alone , and his successours , and not to all bishops and ministers whatsoever , thus proceeds . by the keyes given to s. peter many holy fathers mean , the one of knowledge , & the other of power , and that that power ought not to be understood universally , but only concerning the kingdome of heaven which is spirituall : for the civill , royall , and temporall power is expresly forbidden him by christ . even so that also of knowledge , it is not to be understood of natural , politike , or morall things , but as saint paul saith , of christs mysteries only . wherefore in matters of faith ecclesiasticall authority may approve , and secular cannot condemne , but in matters or policy what all the prelates in the world approve , temporall authority may condemne . it is a great wrong to pretend , because christ hath given saint peter the cognizance and power of the kingdome , and forbidden him the earthly , contrary to this precept to extend spirituall things to temporall . saint augustine often saith , that grace doth not destroy any thing in nature , but leaveth her all her owne ; adding moreover divine perfection . the temporality hath of its own nature , power , to forbid all things repugnant to publike quietnesse and honesty ; and christ came not to take away this authority from magigistrates , he only adds power to his ministers in matters of faith , not knowne by nature , but revelation . for ought wee know , this power of opening or shutting heaven , of binding and loosing sins was miraculous , and so but temporary : but admit it in this catholike writers sense , yet we plainly see , it is no prejudice at all to limit secular princes thereby . the same learned papist writes : that the easterne and westerne churches continued in unity and charity for the space of nine hundred yeares after christ , and this peace was easily kept , because the supream power was then in the canons , to which all churches acknowledged themselves equally subject . ecclesiasticall discipline was then severely mayntained in each country by its own prelates , not arbitrarily , but absolutely according to canonicall rigour , none of them intermedling in anothers government . no pope of rome did pretend to conferre benefices in other bishops diocesses , or to get money out of others by way of dispensations and buls : but when rome began to shake off all subjection to canons , then notwithstanding any ancient order of the fathers , councels , or apostles themselves , instead of her ancient primacy she brought in an absolute dominion , free from any law or canon & this made the division . neither could any re-union bee brought to passe within these 700 yeares , because this abuse which caused the division is not remedied . whilst the union held , saint pauls doctrine was joyntly observed , that every one should be subject to princes , no man pretended to be free from punishment . nay , and after the division , the same opinion remayned , that every christian in temporall businesses is subject to the prince . and nothing is more temporall then offence , because nothing is more contrary to the spirit . amongst the greeks also it is still held that bishops ought to judge what opinion is found , what hereticall , but to punish those of hurtfull opinions belongeth to the secular . the state of venice , as well as other catholike kingdomes , walks between two extreames , betweene protestants , which have no other ayme but to diminish ecclesiasticall authority , and the court of rome which hath no other ayme , but to increase it , and to make the temporall her servant . those of the court of rome , making use of religion for worldly ends and respects under a spirituall pretense , but with an ambitious end and desire of worldly wealth and honour would free themselves from obedience due to the prince , and take away the love and reverence due by the people to draw it to themselves . to bring those things to passe , they have newly invented a doctrine that talks of nothing but ecclesiasticall greatnesse , liberty , immunity , and jurisdiction . this doctrine was unheard of , till about the year 1300 , then it began to be written scatteringy in some books , but till 1400 , there were not written above two bookes which treated of nothing else ; after this such writers increased a little , but after 1560 , there were scarce any books printed in italy , but in diminution of secular authority and exaltation of the ecclesiasticall . and now the people have scarce any other books to read , nor have the confessors any other doctrine , or need any other learning . hence comes this perverse opinion , that magistracy is a humane invention , and to be obeyed for policy only , not for conscience : but that every intimation of ecclesiasticall persons is equivalent to a divine precept ; there want not in italy , pious , learned men which hold the contrary , but they are not suffered to write , or print . neither are forraine books permitted , or ancient authours left ungelded of all which serves for temporall authority : as appeares by a book printed 1607 , called index expurgatorius : and clement the eighth in 1595 , published a rule in his index , that all catholike writers books since 1515 , might be corrected , not only by expunging but also by interlining , and this hath beene practised though not publikely above seventy yeares . thus we finde the court of romes , but not the authors meaning , and finally , wee are sure to have no book true . i have hitherto cited this egregious politician , for these purposes . first , that we may see how easie it is for clergie-men to wrest all authority out of the temporalties hands , if princes will be so easie to be hood-winkt , and deluded by them , and to resigne their judgments to them in such cases as concern their profit , and advancement . secondly , that we may take notice how far the learnedst of papists themselves doe discover , and detect the errours and tyranny of the court of rome , and that mysticall way of deceiving , whereby all hope of remedy is cut off . i observe this also the rather because our prelates in england at this day assume to themselves almost as vast and unquestionable a power of shifting and repressing all adverse disputes , and of authorizing and publishing all arguments whatsoever savouring their cause , as the court of rome does . thirdly , that i might produce the same author against himselfe in those points wherein he taxes protestants . we will yield that for the space of nine hundred yeers the see of rome did not usurpe over other sees , but did acknowledge equall subjection to the canons , and that the division and separation of the easterne churches happened , when rome arrogated above canons ; but withall we must have it yielded to us , that those canons had been composed only by clergy-men , and that in too much favour of clergy-men , and too much abridgment of temporall rights and priviledges , and that they did concerne matters more then meerly spirituall , and speculative , and things known by meere revelation . so that though one prelate did not usurpe over another , yet all prelates had usurped over the laity from the times of constantine almost . it is true , the church had bishops before in its times of persecution , but of what power or pompe ? it is said of calvin , that in regard of his sway in geneva , he wanted nothing but the name of bishop ; and it may be as truly said of the bishops before constantine , that they wanted all but the name . the power of bishops before the installment of christian princes , was rather like that of arbitrators then of judges , and that held in all cases alike , civill and spirituall , but in case of disobedience they did not intrench so far upon the lay power , as to inflict any pecuniary , or corporall punishment , but they did deny the sacrament , and eject delinquents out of the congregation , and this was then an abscission from christ , being done clave non errante : that is , whilst god did inspire ( according to his promise ) a miraculous power of binding and loosing infallibly . the priestly function was then an office , not a jurisdiction , of sacred dignity , not power : but the function of a prince was ever sacred both for honour , and power , for dignity and command . constantine the great was the first prince which tooke upon him the care and protection of the church , after that it had suffered contempt and poverty for 300 yeares : and now did even that authority and protection cease , and devolve into his hands , which the poore persecuted bishops had but feebly managed before ; but such was the extraordinary indulgence of this pious emperour , as well to religious persons , as to religion it selfe , that taking little notice what the church had gaine by him as its head and governour , he heaped up greater titles and honors upon bishops , archbishops , patriarchs , and popes , as if some other supreme ruler more sacred and competent then himselfe were necessary . neverthelesse it is thought , that this was as poyson poured into the church , and not balme , for from that very time clergy men began to be more glorious , but lesse gracious , more rich outwardly , but more poore , and vile inwardly . within a little space after constantine there was just cause of complaint that excessive honours had corrupted the church , and that religion had prospered better in former times , when it had wooden chalices and golden priests , then now , when it had golden chalices , but wooden priests . it is remarkable also , that soon after constantine the temporall power being too much restrained , and abased , and the spirituall as much inlarged and exalted , the whole face of christendome began to be imbroyled with wars , and poysoned with heresies , so that the historians of those times have almost nothing else to write of but the forcible investing and devesting by armes of such bishops and patriarchs , and of the oppositions of such and such councels and synods , and of the appeals , jars , schismes , excommunications , and commotions of such , and such priests , and monks . nay , such were the ill effects of those ages which were certainly more zealous then politike , that they cannot yet be wholly rectified , and purged in these our latter times , which are growne too too contrary , being more politike then zealous : thus did the church fare for 900 yeares till the roman bishops began to empire above all , and then did the greatest part of the clergie themselves , especially east from italy , make their departure and separation . neither did the romish vice-god after this great rent and division in the world hang his head for shame , or seeke any re-union by letting fall his pompous , painted plumes , but audaciates himselfe rather to mount higher yet , and to detrude the western emperour quite out of the bounds of italy . and in this , his industry fails him not , for after much bloud-shed in many cruell conflicts hee gains in italy a temporall , and in all europe besides a spirituall monarchy , making a triple mitre shine as gloriously upon the seven-hilled city , as the diadem had done before . during his wars with the emperour of germany , he had other contestations also with england , and some other potentates at sometimes , but all dismaid him not , only once hee was heard to say , it was time for him to compound with the dragon , that hee might crush the lesser adders at his pleasure . yet after this even this holy tyranny grows too insolent and insufferable , and so conspires its owne dissolution , so that many countries in the northwest parts lying more remote from rome , quite revolt from her allegeance , and protest against her . amongst those other countries also lesse distant , which still in words confesse her supremacy , her reigne is now but little more then precarious : venice regards not buls and anathemacs , france disdains a yonger brothers benediction , and spain being honoured with the title of the popes eldest son , confesses him a fathe● , but employs him as a chaplain , gives verball , but reaps reall honours by him . augustus having cashiered an unworthy commander , gave him leave to say , that he had cashiered augustus : and so the popes great sonnes shake off his yoke by degrees , but conceal it , and give him leave to doe the like . it is now very good policy in the pope , not to pretend to temporall things as they stand in ordine , or have relation to spiritual things , but rather to relinquish his right to spirituall things , as they stand in order to temporall : it is eminent wisdome in him to forbeare threatning , roaring , cursing , and sending his ridiculous epigrams , out of his owne territories : as hee was wont to doe : nay , his very last refuge of sending forth his poysoning and stabbing ministers cannot remayne in season much longer . but to returne to our learned statesman : as hee justly taxes the court of rome , so he unjustly taxes protestants of the contrary extream , and this will appeare out of his own words . for he grants , first , that the secular magistrates have nothing diminished of their authority by christs comming : and it is cleere that princes were absolute governours of the church before christ both in spirituall and temporall cases . in the next place hee yields , that the power and knowledge of clergy-man called the power of the keyes , is no other but such as christ infuses in smeere supernaturall things , knowne only by faith and revelation , not by any physicall , or ethicall principles ; but it is easily proved by us , that such power can extend to no proper jurisdiction at all in humane affaires , but is a meere speculative motion , and such wee deny not . thirdly , hee yields that in jurisdiction there bee three things distinct . first , matter of law . secondly , matter of fact . thirdly , matter of execution : whereby retribution is made to every fact according to law . the first of these , and that in spirituall cases alone being tryable by clergy-men only . admit this and nothing follows , but that things meerly spirituall , are best knowne to spirituall persons , there is no power here concluded . as for example . in case of heresie , that i hold such an opinion , must appeare by witnesses and proofs , and herein all kinds of witnesses besides clergy-men are competent . next , that this opinion is hereticall , requires the judgement of ecclesiasticall persons , but it does not follow , if they be the fittest judges herein , that they must be the supreme judges herein , and not aswell dependent and subordinate as our civill judges are in common actions . but in the last place , that such an hereticall opinion so dangerous and pestilent to the church and common-wealth ought to be corrected or cradicated by such coercive force , and the raising of that force whereby it is to be punished is in the judgement , and in the power of the supreame magistrate , for two magistrates cannot have a supreame power of the same sword . either the secular must command the ecclesiasticall , or the ecclesiasticall must command the secular , as to coercive power , or a worse confusion then either must needs follow . so then , it is the execution of justice alone , which is essentiall to the supreame governour , matter of law requires a counsellour , matter of fact a witnesse , matter of execution alone intimates a prince , and that principality cannot bee divided betwixt two persons of a severall nature . from hence then it appeares plainly that no catholike differing from the court of rome ascribes more to clergy men , then this first point of adjudging according to the law of god in things divine ; and this implyes rather a dependent , then an independent condition in the judge : and in this protestants joyne with full consent . but all this while i finde my selfe in a digression : my scope is not to prove that protestants doe attribute sufficient to priests , it lies upon mee to prove that they attribute too much to them , and herein i am to undertake not only the episcopall , but the presbyteriall side also , not only protestant prelates , but even master calvin that great arch-prelate also . divines have much trumped the world hitherto in not setting forth the true bounds and limits of ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , but if i mistake not , the first power ( which they claime as most essentiall ) they take to be the power of the keyes , though they define not certainly , what that is , whether a power , or office ; or to whom belonging , or of what extent , and continuance . the second power which they insist upon , as next issuing out of the power of the keyes , is in excommunication , ordination of ministers , exposition of scriptures , &c. the third and more remote kinde of causes wherein they challenge an ecclesiasticall power , is of such as concerne matrimonie , testaments , heresies , fasts , tythes , and immunnities of clergymen , &c. and further doubtlesse they would proceed , but that these savour so much of the temporality , and discover their trumpery ; but i have said , if in all these cases clergy men are necessarily more knowing and impartiall then all the else , there is necessity of their counsell to declare matter of law , but not of their consent in applying coercive , and forcible remedies for the execution of law . i have said also that clergy-men being as well citizens of the common-wealth as sons of the church , and these cases importing as well perturbance of the state as annoyance to the church , that there can be but one head which ought to have command over both , and in both . it is manifest also that many cases are partly temporall , and partly spirituall , and that scarce any is so temporall , but that it relates in some order to spirituall things , or any so spirituall , but that it hath some relation to temporall things , so that the true subject of ecclesiasticall and civill justice cannot rightly be divided . further , also it is as manifest that where any doubt , strife , or uncertainty may arise between one iurisdiction , and another , neither acknowledging any supreame power of decision , no assured peace can continue , and by consequence no stability or permanent subsistence to either , is to be expected . it is naturall therefore to be inferred , that either the temporall or the ecclesiasticall magistrate must bee in all cases absolutely predominant , and that since the ecclesiastical ought not by christs owne command , therefore the temporall ought , as hath been further proved by sundry arguments , and scripture proofes alledged out of this famous politician . so much of the temporall power , and its necessary supremacie : my endevour shall be now to maintain that no ecclesiasticall power is at all necessary in meere ecclesiasticall persons . master calvin according to the popish grounds maintaines , that spirituall jurisdiction differs from temporall , & is not incompatible but assistant therto , because it proposes not the same ends , but severall , which by severall meanes may be the better compassed . but the spirituall magistrate ( as i conceive ) can propose no other end , then what the secular ought to ayme at , for either the prince ought to have no care at all of the honour of god , and the good of men , and that which is the prime meane of both , true religion , or else his ends must bee the same which the prelate aymes at , viz. to vindicate religion by removing and correcting scandalous offenders . secondly , to preserve the innocent from contagion by the separation of open offenders . thirdly , to prevent further obduration , or to procure the amendment of such as have transgressed by wholsome chastisement . this is beyond all controversie , as also that the person and power of a prince , are as sacred to effect these ends , as the prelates : and certainly , god did not so sanctifie their persons and offices for any lesse end . and therefore in ancient times holy bishops did preach and recommend nothing more to princes then the care of religion , though proud prelates now arrogate this onely to themselves , and though it be still apparent , that no offence is so spirituall but that it is a civill evill , as well as a blemish to religion : forsomuch as true religion is the foundation of a state . and this could not bee , neither were princes answerable to god for the corruption of religion , if god had not given them a supreame power , and that effectuall to bring all offenders whatsoever to confession , satisfaction , and contrition or to expell them the congregation by themselves , or their surrogates . master calvin instances in adultery & drunkennes , &c. and sayes , that the temporall power punishes these by externall force , and for publick examples sake , as it concernes the state , but the spirituall judge punishes them without force internally for the amendment of the delinquent . hee might as well have named swearing , lying , stealing , murdering , and all sinnes whatsoever , and so have made all men twice punishable , and the ecclesiasticall courts as full of businesse as the temporall , to the great vexation of the state , and danger of division , out of this false ground onely that temporall power hath not a competence for the amendment of off●nders , or for the care of religion , but only for the satisfaction of wronged parties , and the expedition of ●ivill justice . this is a way to erect regnum in regno , and to maintaine such concurrent jurisdictions , as cannot possibly stand together , for all being subject to sin and offence , as well the spirituall as temporall , either the one or other must goe unquestioned , and this may produce division : or else both ; and that will cause most certaine confusion . both sides here seem strangely puzled , the rigidest of the episcopall faction allow princes a coercive power over priests , and prelats , where they performe not what their duty is in their functions or jurisdictions , and this power requires a higher power of summoning , arraigning , and legally trying them : and yet the moderatest of the presbyteriall faction would have princes questionable , tryable and punishable by the spiritualty . this is a grosse confusion , which will appeare to bee so more plainely in the sequell ; when it is more fully cleared , that to princes alone god has precisely committed utramque tubam , and utramque tabulam too , as our reverend andrew sayes . t is true , as calvin alleadges , princes are sons of the church , they are in it , not above it : the word intruding the church universall , such as is both militant and triumphant ; past , present , and future , for that hath no other head but christ : to that all princes and priests are equally sons : but take church for such or such a nationall , locall church , and then the prince is head thereof , under christ ; and the clergie are part of his charge , and under his protection . the same man also may in diverse respects be both father and son to the same man without confusion of relations . a king , a bishop may hear the word , & receive the sacrament from an inferiour minister ; a subject may be naturall father to his prince , and in this respect a filiall subjection is due from the superiour , and so a king may referre his owne case to his chancellor , yet this destroyes not the greater , higher , and more generall superiority in other things , at other times . and to me it seemes that even in the exercise of the keyes , the priest officiates under the prince , as the chancellor does in matters of law , even when the kings owne case lyes in judgement before him , and when perhaps he makes a decree against his owne master , and contrary to his owne masters private advertisement : and yet the king is not properly either lawyer , or theologue , though both are actuated , and organiz'd as it were , by the soule-like commanding , over seeing , and over-ruling of his more sublime and divine power . herein the priest also may learn a limitation from the lawyer , for though the judge be bound to pronounce right judgement against his owne master , yet this holds not in all cases alike ; because of his limited condition , for in criminall cases such as concerne the safety of the kings owne person , or the royall dignity of his calling , therein judgement must be utterly mute . and therefore it is a weake argument of master calvin , though it be his best ; when he inferres a necessity of an ecclesiasticall judicature from hence , because else the prince himselfe wanting punishment , should escape free : for the reason is the same in matters of law ; the king is not questionable , or responsible , for personall crimes , and yet this is held no politicall mischiefe . besides if the prince shall not goe unquestioned , or undisciplin'd by the spirituall , yet the supreme spirituall magistrate must , and this is an equall , if not a greater mischiefe : for both cannot be equally lyable to the judgement of each other . neither is it to much purpose that the example of bishop ambrose so harshly , so unreverendly treating pious penitent theodosius , is so confidently cited alwayes by either faction episcopall and presbyteriall ; for though the name of ambrose be great , yet i will crave leave to speake as an advocate against him in the name of the emperour theodosius . reverend sir , you take upon you to be a judge over me , and to condemne me of a bloody massacre committed unjustly at thessalonica , and being so condemned , you proceed against me with your ghostly punishment , subjecting me to your ecclesiasticall severity : but i pray consider what mischiefes may follow hereupon ; if emperours may bee punishable by bishops , then common equity requires that emperours have the benefit of a faire hearing and arraignment , or else were their condition more miserable then the condition of the meanest vassals : for as princes actions are more inscrutable , and their counsels more mysticall ; so also their ends are for the most part more lyable to envy , and misinterpretation : it is not possible for you without due discussion , inquiry , and examination of impartiall witnesses , perfectly to understand all the true circumstances , reasons , and grounds of this my fact ; and without this understanding it is not possible for you to pronounce a just censure against me . it 's necessary then that some tribunall be prepared for you , and some bar for me , that upright sentence may passe , and that justice may be done understandingly , and upon this it must needs follow that i am your meere subject , and must lay downe my scepter to bow my selfe under your crosier , till this difficulty be fully ended . admit this also , and then you may use what procrastination you please in this intricate decision ; or in the like manner question me of all other enormities , and scandalous deviations , which rumor , envy , or treason it selfe forges against me ; and thus shall i have no leasure to judge other men , it will scarce be possible for me to acquit my selfe in judgement from other men : that power which god hath put into my hands for the protection of so many myriads , will be utterly disabled by that higher power which is put into your hands over me . by the same reason also that i am to render an account to you in this place , i am to render the like to all your superiours , equals , or inferiours in other jurisdictions , of all sinnes whatsoever , whether reall , or imputable , ecclesiasticall , or civill , so that no end is like to be of my tryals , purgations , or condemnations . you will say , my crime is sensibly evident ; if i would deny this , you could not prove it so ; and if i would not confesse this , you could not force me , for it was a politicall thing , and farre off acted : and my meere confession can give to you no jurisdiction . but be my crime as manifest in it selfe as the disobedience of saul was to samuel , or as davids murther was to nathan , or as solomons incontinence was to all the world , or as manasses his idolatry : yet why should i suffer more then they ? what new coercive , vindicative authority have priests gained over princes by christs gospell , which the jewish priests never used , claymed , or heard of ? if excommunication , &c. be now necessary , sure it was in use before christ ; and then wee should have heard of some kings excommunicated , &c. by some priests ; for if the temporall power had not of its owne nature a competent force and habitude to restraine all things repugnant to publike quietnesse , and honesty , a spirituall power was necessary ; and yet we read of none such . but if there was a sufficiency in the temporall power , as is most manifestly apparent ; then we cannot imagine that christ came to take away any of this authority from magistrates : but that power which he added , was rather an excellency of grace and vertue in matters of faith , and illumination . it cannot bee alleadged by you , that that punishment is meerely spirituall , and so no politicall evill : for as it puts other men into the condition of publicans , heathens , and worse ; so it further yet degrades , disables , and oppresses princes . how shall he be honoured and obeyed as the vicegerent of god in all causes , whom the laity sees ejected out of the church , and expelled out of the communion of the faithfull , as a rotten contagious member ? how shall hee be held more sacred then a priest , whom the sentence , interdiction , and the confounding blow of a priests spirituall execration , shall render so contemptible , miserable , and abominable in the eyes of the world ? saint paul being accused in matters of doctrine , made his appeale to a wicked heathen emperour ; and yet now a christian godly emperour being accused by any church-man , no appeale is allowed , though in meere civill accusations . saint peters keyes did either endure some new power not before known to the world , or not ; if it did , then our saviours gospell came into the world to the detriment of civill government , which is contrary to religion , and all reason : and if no new addition of power were imported , then tiberius himselfe , though a heathen , and tyrant , remained as absolute as before ; and yet in his time there was more necessity of an ecclesiasticall judicature , then is now . but you will say , if princes be not subject to some chastisement , then some scandals must passe unremediable . not so , for here god is the revenger , and strikes often , as he did vzziah ; but if not , yet either the temporall or spirituall governour must passe unchastiz'd , which is all one ; for two supreames cannot be , nor no entire government without some supremacy , nor no supremacy without immunity , and exemption from judgement . the perpetuall conflicts and contestations betweene princes and prelates , which are likely to ensue , will soone cleere this ; that either princes must at last submit to the tribunals of church-men , and raigne at their discretion ; or else church-men must submit to them : for both tribunals cannot stand compatible . for my part , i excuse so grave a father as you are , of ambition herein ; and therefore i am the lesse cautious in submitting my selfe at this time : but i conceive this doctrine may bee the ground of dangerous consequences to others , and therefore i desire it may not from me passe into a president for the time to come . let not proud prelates from this my voluntary humiliation , arrogate to themselves as if it had beene due ; or derogate thereby from the more sacred order of princes : neither let princes from this particular learne to yeeld to any spirituall monarchy whatsoever . my beliefe is , that the prince is the head , the fountaine , the soule of all power whatsoever , spirituall , or temporall ; wherein he ought not to indure at all any kinde of rivality of ecclesiasticall persons , nor can admit of any diminution in any part of his jurisdiction , without offence to god , dammage to his charge , and danger to himselfe . so much for theodosius , and so much for that jurisdiction which is due to prelates : i should now speake of the exercise thereof , as it is granted by the favour of princes , but this is a very tender point . it seemes to some , that princes ought not to incumber men in sacred orders , in any kinde of judicature which is not purely spirituall ; nor that prelates can accept of any temporall imployment whatsoever , without dishonour to their orders , and neglect to their cure of soules : and yet now none so greedy of such imployment . a sacred place may not be put to secular uses , that 's prophane : but a sacred person may , that 's honourable . a bishoprick now adayes is but a writ of ease , to dismisse from preaching , and attending gods service ; whereby the man is preferred from the church to the court , from the altar to some tribunall , from gods spirituall to the kings temporall affaires . in the high commission , at the councel table , in the star-chamber , and the chequer , churchmen are now more active then in their owne consistories , and yet their ambition further aimes ( as 't is said ) to the chancery , court of requests , &c. which could not chuse but redound to the scandall of religion , the obstruction of justice , and vexation of the subject : if there were not learned and skilfull men enough in policy and law to serve the king , unlesse divinity were deprived of some of her followers , there were some seeming umbrage why the king might borrow of god ; but when gods more holy office is neglected , that the kings meaner may be the worse administred , the world much gazes and wonders at it . the functions of divines are too sacred for any secular person to officiate , and therefore it should seeme , their persons also ought to be too sacred for secular functions ; for it seems prepostrous , that it should be thought an honour to priests to relinquish spiritual , and adhere to temporall imployments . nic : machiavell did observe that christian religion had long since falne to the ground had not the regular strictnesse of poore inferiour priests and fryers held , and propped up the reputation of it in the world , as much as the pride and luxury of the great cardinals , and prince like bishops , did strive to sinke and demolish it . the same observation holds true amongst us protestants at this day , for the more our prelates enjoy , the more still they seeke ; and all our three kingdomes are growne so sicke of their pride , injustice , and pragmaticall faction , that scarce any remedy but bloud-letting can cure them . we finde in scripture the most high and holy offices of religion performed by princes , even amongst , and above the greatest of priests ; but we scarce finde any instance at all where priests intermedled with any state affaires , either above , or under princes : and yet with us now the imploying and entrusting of clergy-men in temporal businesses , is held as politick as it was in times of popery : although no time could ever justly boast of that use . but to passe over temporal businesses , how violent have our bishops beene in their owne canons about ceremonies , and indifferencies ? and what disturbance hath that violence produced ? they strive as for the beauty and glory of religion , to bring in the same former of liturgie , the same posture of the communion-table , the same gesture at the communion , &c. in all our three dominions ; as if uniformity were alwayes beautifull : and yet we see , all men are created with severall faces , voyces , and complexions , without any deformity to the universe . 't is not externall variety , but internall dissention , which spoyles the harmony of religion ; and dissention is more nourished by the harshnes of pastors over their flocks , especially over the weake ones in scruples , then by permitting various rites and formes in the externall worship of god . certainly , liberty and variety in indifferences , and ceremonies is more favour'd in scripture , than any universall similitude , or rigorous force whatsoever , over the perplexed , anxious consciences of weake men . we see in scotland , where there is no ceremonies , they enjoy that uniformity without contention , which wee ayme at onely , and seeke to purchase with infinite debate , and persecution ; and under their peace and unity , the protestant religion thrives , and romish superstition utterly ceases : whereas under our strife and disagreement , religion and true devotion is over-run , and over-growne , like corne choaked with weeds . nay , it is thought that if our bishops had bin more gentle-handed all this while towards such as disrelisht ceremonies for poperies sake , and had rather pitied thē as men of tender consciences , than persecuted and defamed them , as seditions puritans , these differences had not lasted so long : for when the reformation was not yet fully perfected , the puritans of those dayes were more fiery than now ; but not being so odious in the church , lesse combustion followed thereupon : whereas now they are so unmercifully heated , that no moderate complyance can serve the turne . there seemes now little remaining of puritanisme , but the breathlesse carkas of it , and yet till that too be interred and consumed , no truce can be admitted . the very sufferings of puritans now are sufficiently quit , and imputed as the effects of their owne malice , their punishment is argument enough for the desert of their punishment ; the more they have borne , the more they must now beare ; and the more they now beare , the more they shall hereafter . fury is one of the maine thing ; objected to puritans ; but in truth , the world has not any thing more furious then such as most pretend against them . hence it is , that the hatred of puritans flowes and descends from the highest of the clergie to the lowest : and young students in the vniversity know it now their wisest course to study the defamation of puritans , as the first and most necessary point of their learning and qualification , and as their surest path to promotion . and to make their detestation sure , and themselves irreconciliable , they must ingage themselves by some notable service of novelty , quarrelling with some point of protestantisme , or refining some point of popery ; they must taxe protestants as some ways injurious to princes , or extoll papists as zealous observers of antiquity . it must be maintained that royalty cannot stand without the prop of episcopacy , though it never yet found greater enemy ; and that puritanisme only hinders the stretching of our religion , or else papists and we should soone agree . those of vulgar wits which serve not for such straines , that they may be redeemed from suspicion of puritanisme , must doe something factiously , or be vitious , or else their hopes of preferment are almost desperate . charity to papists , conformity to ancient fathers , and decent uniformity amongst our selves , are the specious colors wherewith they dresse and deck all their pretenses ; for want of sectaries living in these days , they rake out of their toombs hacket , copinger , browne , &c. to upbraid us , for want of opposites enow here in england , they calumniate the scots to our dishonour ; for want of true imputations , they forge any crimes how monstrous soever , and their most sure one is , that which is most undiscernible , hypocrisie . neverthelesse it must bee beleeved that the antipuritan disparages not our ancestors in the reformation , but for love of antiquity ; not teares in sunder the bonds of religion , nature , policy betwixt two the most close-united nations of the world , but out of love to unity : nor fills whole kingdomes with bloud , but out of love to order . such was sure diogenes his humility , trampling upon platoes couches ; such was neroes uniformity , setting on sire the streets of rome : such was procustes his symmetry , cutting his guests according to his beds . and therefore it s thought puritans are not so much hated for their opposition to ceremonies , as ceremonies are multiplied , and inforced for suppression of all zealous christians , under the umbrage of puritans : and that for the same purpose the enemies of piety have blown those coales which they might have quenched . the bishop of downe makes a very sharpe speech to the puritans in ireland , as being very disobedient , and animated therein by the scotish covenanters ; but his chiefest eloquence uttered against his owne countrymen the scots , whom he paints forth as the chiefest traytors , perjured rebels , heretickes and hypocrits in the world : nay , he denounceth them worse than anabaptists , and such as have more than justified the powder-traytors , and all the rebellious practises of the jesuites : afterwards he addes also , that puritanisme is not the nationall sin of scotland only , but that they of the same faction in england had beene as deep in the same condemnation , but that they had not so much power . see here the lively portraiture of an antipuritane , see a true boner revived againe , but in protestant habit ; and for ought i see , here are none exempted from this black venomous censure in all the kings dominions , but those of the popish and episcopall faction . it 's not to be wondred at that the king thinks ill of his subjects , or that burton or prin suffered worse then traytors merits : it 's rather to be wondred at , that our streets doe not runne with blood dayly , since this is the gospell our reverend fathers of the church preach . this speech was thought worthy to be dispersed in print over all our kingdomes in english ; but since , because it redounds so much to the honour of the three nations , and the repute of protestant religion , it 's translated into latine , and coppies are printed for all christendome to take notice of . in this speech it s urged , that puritans who began about 80 yeares since , have proceeded from bad to worse by six degrees ; first they did dislike , then contemne bishops ; then they did disobey their jurisdiction ; then separate themselves ; then they fell into the heresie of holding no difference betweene bishop and presbyter : lastly , they rebelled , and grew more immoderate than anabaptists . and here saint cyprian is alledged , who sayes , that the contempt of bishops is the beginning and ground of all heresies and schismes . here we see what puritanes are , the most cursed miscreants on earth ; next we see who puritans are , all such as hold not with episcopacy : that is in probability halfe ireland , more then halfe england , all scotland , and many other protestant countries . king james did put a difference betwixt such as disrelisht bishops , and ceremonies meerly , and such as under that pretext fraudulently sought to perturbe the state , and make a factious separation . but here the difference of all puritans is graduall only , not substantiall ; for dislike of bishops is the beginning of all heresie , and must needs end in anabaptisme and rebellion . how plainly does it here appeare , that episcopacy is the true helena of all this warre ; and yet saint cyprian is to be understood of the pastorall function , not of the ecclesiasticall jurisdiction of a bishop , or else in his sense the genevans , and the greatest part of protestants are heretiques , and king james made a frivolous distinction . such stuffe as this had not mis-beseemed a papist , but it s very odde in a protestant bishop ; except wee consider him , as one who hath looke back towards the onions and flesh-pots of aegypt , and is inamor'd again upon those glorious titles & ensignes of honour , and pompe , which rome confers upon her courtiers . but to conclude this point , i wish princes would not allow such bishops to be carvers to themselves , and make them judges in cases of their owne interesse : they are surely good spectacles for princes in theologicall deliberations , as temporall counsellors are in state affaires ; but miserable are those princes whose eyes cannot see without such spectacles . if religion did not prosper worse , if peace were not more violated , if persecution were not more common in countries wher bishops govern , than where they are expelled , we might suspect the scots , as hereticall , and rebellious by nature ; for chusing all the plagues of warre rather then bishops : but when we see the contrary , we may aswell listen to the scots against bishops , as to bishops against the scots . so much of the ecclesiasticall puritan , next after whom sprung up the puritan in religion , of whom i shall speak very briefly . there are many men amongst us now , which brooke bishops and ceremonies well enough ; and perhaps favourably interpret our late innovations ; and yet these may be too grave to escape the name of puritans . to be a protestant may be allowed , but to dispute against papists , smels of preciseness : to hold the pope fallible is tolerated , but to hold him antichrist is abominable puritanisme : to goe to church is fashionable , but to complaine of the masse , or to be grieved at the publick countenance of popery , whereby it intwines our religion , and now drinkes up that sap which is scarce afforded to protestantisme , or at all to take notice how far some of our divines are hereat conniving , if not cooperating , is a sumptome of a deepe infected puritan . he that is not moderate in religion is a puritan , and hee that is not a cassandrian , or of father francis syncters faith , is not moderate : he savours too much of calvins grosse learning , exploded now by our finest wits . but i passe from this kinde of puritan to another ; whom i shall call my politicall puritan ; for the bounds of puritanisme are yet larger , and inclose men of other conditions . some there are yet which perhaps disfavour not at all either ecclesiasticall policy , or moderate papists ; and yet neverthelesse this is not sufficient to acquit them from the name of puritans , if they ascribe any thing to the lawes and liberties of this realme , or hold the prerogative royall to be limitable by any law whatsoever . if they hold not against parliaments and with ship-money , they are injurious to kings ; and to be injurious to kings , is proprium quarto modo to a puritan . our present civill , nay more then civill warre with scotland , and all the mischiefes thereon attending , the disaffection betweene the king and his subjects , and all the mischiefes thereon attending the discontinuance of parliaments , the proper remedies of all state-maladies , and universall grievances , which is a mischiefe whereby all mischiefes become incurable , all are caused by the abusive mistake and injurious misapplication of this word puritan . the scots are puritans , and therefore enemies to monarchy , the english are puritans , and therefore haters of royall prerogative , both the nations have beene hitherto famous for their devout reverence , and obsequious zeale to their princes ; but now puritanisme has infected them , and perverted them to disloyalty . thus is the kings heart alienated from his subjects , and by consequence , the subjects loyalty blunted towards him , to the incomparable , almost irreparable detriment of both : neither is this disaccord betweene the king and his best subjects , more fatall and pernicious to the common-wealth , then his accord with the recusant faction . papists have now gotten the repute of the best subjects , and fittest for trust in places of eminent service ; nay 't is almost necessary that forraine papists be brought in for the supporting of the indangered royalty : for though the popish faction at court be strong and active enough for matter of counsell , yet for matter of force the puritans in city and countrey be too predominant . the bishop of downe in his visitation speech layes all the calamities of church and common-wealth upon non-conformists , and for proofe thereof instances in the covenanters , whom he charges of rebellion , charging withall that rebellion upon puritanisme . the first thing ( saies he ) that made me out of love with that religion , was their injurious dealing with kings , which i observed both in their practice and doctrine . he taxes first their doctrine , because they deny the kings supremacy in causes ecclesiasticall , and allow subjects to resist , nay and depose their king , if he be a tyrant . surely ahab could say little for himselfe , if he could not lay his owne crimes upon elijah ; but see here by what art of confusion all scots are called puritans and all puritans rebels . king james spoke not so confusedly as if puritanisme were a religion ; and all that disliked bishops and ceremonies were of that religion ; and all of that religion were enemies to kings . if a bishop needed any proofe , if his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} were not unquestionable , i would desire him to prove all covenanters puritans , and all puritans , denyers of the kings supremacy : or to instance in any kings which have beene deposed or murdred by presbyteriall authority . how far bishops have incroached upon kings , is known to al the world : our protestant bishops lately have by oath and canon combined together to bind the kings hands though hee be supreme , that he shall not governe our church but by arch-bishops , bishops , arch-deacons , &c. and yet these troublers of israel have the face to taxe elijah of their owne sin . presbytery indeed has heretofore passed her bounds , yet not of late , but episcopacy has ever from constantine claimed an independence of divine right , till this instant . i conceive there are not in all the kings dominions , three men , except papists and anabaptists , which hold it lawfull to depose , or by any force to violate the persons of kings , how ill soever . the scotch divines indeed maintaine that a great body of men may defend themselves against the unjust sword of misled kings , because they cannot flye , or otherwise save themselves ; and this they take now to be their owne case ; whereas our court divines in england hold , that in such case , wee ought all to yeeld our throats without defence . this seemes unnaturall , and truth was never unnaturall , but i forbeare to dispute a point so horrid to mans imagination : the bishop next instances in the rebellious practices of puritans , and reckons up some facts in scotland appointed by the presbytery without king james his privity , and some other seditious sermons , and actions whereby he was much annoyed . but what ? did not king james know his owne enemies , or how to blame them ? did he condemne all scots alike , or all bishophaters alike , or joyne the english in like condemnation ? we know well enough , that king james called rebellious precisians puritans , but he never called all puritans rebellious precisians : he never used those termes as convertible , but declared his contrary meaning by a manifest difference taken betweene them . but the bishops maine instance is in the present scotch insurrection ; this he cals a rebellion of puritans , and far greater then the powder-treason : for ( sayes he ) that plot was but the act of a few discontented gentlemen , but in this rebellion of the puritans they have ingaged a great part of the kingdome , so that this may bee said to be the common sin of that sect. what could have beene raked out of hell more slanderous to our religion , more apologeticall for popery . the powder-traytors are here prefer'd before the whole sect of puritans : the sinne of the power-traytors was , that they being but an inconsiderable party , sought the destruction of their king and his issue , and the flower of the nobility , gentry , commonalty , and the extirpation of the true religion , by a most diabolicall bloudy practice and conspiracy . and it ought not to be charged upon the meere actors , as a symptome of discontent , onely we know how farre the romish religion it selfe favours and gives ground to such damned feats , and how farre it has owned some having proved prosperous , and justified the doing thereof in nature as impious , though perhaps in degree not so hainous as this . for take this as it was conspired , and questionlesse , since the crucifying of jesus christ , the light never discovered any treason more ugly , and horrible . now to outmatch this deed of darknesse , the scotch nation by a strange generall unanimity have armed themselves to oppose the ill government of bishops , and other alterations in the service of god , and the administration of justice , and being invaded therefore by another nation , have used force to defend their lives ; and seeing that defence not safe in their owne countrey , they have since pursued it further by way of prevention in the countrey of their invaders . that is the greatest act of rebellion whereby the common peace and safety of a kingdome is most disturbed and impeached ; but by the common act of a whole kingdome , that mischiefe cannot be effected , therefore the bishop failes in his politiques when he thinks that the major part disturbing the minor , is more trayterous , than the contrary . the unanimous act of a whole kingdome ought to be presumed to be lesse injurious , and more wise then the act of any small inconsiderable party , for it hath scarce ever beene seene that a whole kingdome , or the majority thereof hath over been treasonable to its selfe in procuring its owne ruine . many states have perisht by the machinations of a few ill affected , ill advised counsellors , ( scarce ever any perisht otherwise ) but the totall body and collection , has never been guilty of its owne ruine : and if it were , such treason could not be so great as that which is plotted by a few . whilst the scots contained themselves within their owne territories , and were considered as a kingdome within themselves , as they were when the bishop past his censure , they were not rightly so censured : neither was he then privy to their intrusions , that they would infest our kingdome with the same combustion , and so prove a disturbance to the greater part of our british monarchy , whereof they themselves are but a member of lesse bulke and value . cursed therefore are those uncharitable exasperating censures , whereby the king is too far incensed , and by whose rash instigations the commotions themselves become the harder to be appeased . great insurrections are like great fires , wherein delay is mischievous , and small remedies rather turne to fuell , then extinguish : and violent counsell against an inraged multitude is like oyle , or pitch cast into the flame . the wise politician proportions his remedy according to the mischiefe , if water will not prevaile , he useth milke ; if a little quantity will not suffice , he powres as the combustion it selfe requires . unfortunate rehoboam stands as a seamarke to warne all princes how to shun this rocke of violent counsell against a people violently inraged and aggrieved . some men have interpreted the designes of the scots to have beene treasonable from the beginning , and wholly bent upon the spoyle and havocke of the english nation from their first stirring : others have wholly justified their intentions and proceedings hitherto as defensive onely , and inforced by necessity : both these , i conceive , are too rash and head-long in their guesses . in so great a body of men , there must needs be variety of opinions , and its likely contrariety of affections ; and therefore it behooves the king to be the more tender , moderate , and circumspect in his deliberations , as wel for the one side as the other , especially since the scots have not evidently and universally as yet declared themselves for the worse . we may at once be charitable in hoping the best , and wise withall in preventing the worst ; nay , a charitable and sweet demeanor , if it be not too fond , may prove a great part of our prevention : doubtlesse rehoboam himselfe , had hee not beene wilfully devoted to young , rash , and violent counsellors , might have easily retained within his obedience many of his well-meaning subjects , and reclaymed others of more moderation ; and by that meanes have divided and dissipated the most obstinate , head-strong , and furious of all the rebellious party . some princes thinke themselves bound in honour to doe unwise things , and this was the errour of rehoboam , his aged counsellours advised him to that which was most politick , concluding that to be most honourable ; but his genius rather led him according to the advise of his young gallants , to conclude that most politick , which to his haughty stomack seemed most honourable : but what was the event ? to avoid the scorne of young men , he incurred the scorne of old men ; to avoid the unjust censure of fooles , he incurred the just censure of wise men ; to gaine the honour of appearing stout , he purchased the dishonour of being rash ; to shew a contempt of danger , he made himself a prey to it ; rather then to decline a blow by a gentle bowing of his body , he yeelded himselfe to be inevitably oppressed by it . at this time of revolt the israelites were not so wicked , as their revolt after made them ; it may be so with the scots , they are yet protestants , and perhaps may be retained so : and who can thinke of protestants , that so great a body of them , can at one fall so desperately tumble into the depth of mischiefe , as to make fasting , praying , oaths and sacraments , meere instruments and traynes to commit murther , theft , sacriledge , treason , and the most unnaturall of all crying crimes ? but to returne to our owne nation , and what we suffer by our owne divines . manwarings doctrine is common at court , and 't is not long since a bishops chaplaine in terme-time , challenged a judge of treason , for delivering law according to conscience . and this is now no prodigie , for pulpits are not publick enough to preach an unlimitable prerogative in ; 't is fit our learned doctors should mount the benches of justice also , there to advance logick instead of law ; for law is growne injurious to princes , and smels ranke of puritanisme . divines themselves will lose nothing to princes , but all other men shall , that they may gaine the more : and neither lawyers nor states-men must direct them in any thing , but both lawyers and states-men must be directed by them in all things : but let us a little examine how the conditionate and absolute formes of government come within the circle of theologie . the israelites were governed by monarchs , but not all alike absolute . the patriarchs were not so absolute as the judges , nor the judges as the kings , nor the kings as those heathen emperours , which at last made them tributary . the due of caesar , and the due of solomon , and the due of samuel , and the due of jacob , was not the same as to all points of state , or all degrees of royalty , and yet the nation was the same , and the forme of government still remained the same . it should seeme that god approved that degree of soveraignty best , which was by himselfe setled in the person of moses ; for when that people afterwards desired a king , of a more awfull and large prerogative , in imitation of other nations , the thing displeased god . samuel also wrote a booke of this subject , shewing the just conditions of regall power ; ( the losse whereof is much to be lamented ) for if it had beene gods will that all kings should be equally absolute in all respects , and free from all limitations and obligations alike , samuel needed to have written little thereof ; one word had determined all . but in scripture , as it now remaines , samuels booke being not extant , our chiefest light and guide now is by example , not rule ; and example wee finde very various . the state and soveraignty of the jewish kings in generall , we finde milde , and gratious ; but much differing in particulars . solomon was heavy over his subjects , and under his son they would not beare the like ; yet solomons pressure was not upon the estates of his subjects by taxes , and impositions , for he made silver in jerusalem as stones for plenty ; nor did he vex their persons by military hazards and services , for he was at peace with all the world : neither did he any way let fall , or lessen their honour amongst other nations ; he made them rather a spectacle of glory and prosperity to the world . solomons harshnesse was onely in imploying so great multitudes for his owne pompous attendance , and for the performance of such publike workes , and structures , as did tend to the magnificence and beauty of the state . besides , scripture does not satisfie us , neither by rule , nor example , whether kings ought to bee successive alwayes , or elective ; or whether primogeniture of males , or unigeniture of daughters , ought to take place : many things are left so uncertain , that it is not alwayes safe for kings wholly to rely upon examples ; and for the rule of obedience , it is generall , and no more advantagious for free monarchs , then conditionate potentates ; no more for supreame , then subordinate commanders . the law of nature best determines , that all princes being publike ministers for the common good , that their authority ought to be of sufficient latitude for that common good ; and since scripture is not expresse concerning that latitude , as to all people , the same not being to all alike necessary , the severall lawes of severall countries best teach that certaine latitude . i could wish therefore that princes herein would not so much consult with divines , as lawyers ; or rather with parliaments , which are the grand courts and counsels of kingdomes ; for ( as cotton sayes ) every man in particular may deceive , and be deceived ; but no man can deceive all , nor can all deceive one . ancient times are not precedentary to ours by any necessity , for lawes are now more learned , exact , and particular ; and courts , and tables of justice , and policie , are more wisely and methodically composed and elected , then they were ; and therefore there needs not that vocall power , or indisputable force to remaine in the breasts of princes , as was of old . the courts of parliament , and their unquestionable acts , and ordinances , and their infallible avisoes , are now in all well-governed countries ; the very oracles of all policy , and law , they are the fountaines of civill bloud , spirits , and life ; and the soveraigne antidotes of publike mischeifes . that prince was never yet deceived which relyed upon them , nor can he chuse but be deceived , which thinkes he can be assisted with any more wise or faithfull advertisement , then that which is given 〈◊〉 by his whole realme united , and contracted in a lesse circumference . what end can all the flower of the nobility , gentry , and commonalty of a nation , being wise and religious , have in seducing their soveraigne , or in limiting that soveraignty by which alone they are protected ? or what one party of particular men can better understand the true limits of sufficient soveraignty , and the profit thereof ; then this collective universality , whose rayes like the suns , are every where dispersed ; and yet whose body of light is here as in a refulgent globe concentred ? individuals may have many particular ends , severd from the princes or the states , but communities can ayme at nothing but the common good ; as the lesser fountaines scatter their branching streames up and down in various maeanders , whilst the sea containes it selfe in an intire body , within its constant bounds . individuals also have but their own particular set limits of perfection , and have judgements besides apt to bee darkned by their owne severall interests and passions ; whereas the common body injoyes a confluence of severall perfections , and hath the lesse force from abroad to overcloud them . of all men therefore it will most concerne princes to suspect them which are enemies to publick assemblies , and to confide in them most , whose ends are not divided from the generalities ; and as they tender their owne happinesse , to expect it chiefly from that generality , by which they are kings , to which they are gods , from which their very diadems receive honour and sanctity , to which their very royall order imparts life , and breath , and necessary subsistence . i come now to my ethicall puritan . the name of puritan must not rest here , for there may be some moderate , well inclined , facile men , whose education may be such that they are not much vers'd or insighted either in matters of religion , or matters of state ; they may be such as are no wayes busie but in their owne particular affaires , and yet it behooves , that these men too be brought in within the opprobrious compasse of puritanisme . to the religious , ecclesiasticall , and political puritan , there must be joyned also an ethicall puritan . this detested odious name of puritan first began in the church presently after the reformation , but now it extends it selfe further , and gaining strength as it goes , it diffuses its poysonous ignominy further , and being not contented to gangrene religion , ecclesiasticall and civill policy , it now threatens destruction to all morality also . the honest strict demeanour , and civill conversation which is so eminent in some men does , so upbraid and convince the antipuritan , that even honesty , strictnesse , and civility it selfe must become disgracefull , or else they which are contrary cannot remaine in grace : but because it is too grosse to deride vertue under the name of vertue ; therefore other colours are invented , and so the same thing undergoes derision under an other name . the zealous man is despised under the name of zealot , the religious honest man has the vizard of an hypocrite and dissembler put upon him to make him odious . puritans by some are parallelled to jesuites , jesuites are called popish puritans , and puritans , protestant jesuites ; yet this is not indeed disparageable to them : for doubtlesse fiery zeale and rigour were not blameable in jesuites , were not their very religion false ; as celerity and expedition in a traveller is not in it selfe faulty , but commendable , though the traveller being in a wrong path , it causes him to stray the further from his journeys end . my lord of downe professes that the first thing which made him distest the religion of puritans ( besides their grosse hypocrisie ) was sedition : so grosse hypocrisie , it seemes , was the first . what is grosse or visible hypocrisie to the bishop , i know not , for i can see no windowes or casements in mens breasts , neither doe i think him indued with saint peters propheticall spirit whereby to perceive and search into the reines , and hearts of hypocrites ; but let him proceed . it is a plausible matter ( sayes he ) with the people to heare men in authority depraved , and to understand of any liberty and power appertaining to themselves . the profession also of extraordinary zeale , and as it were contempt of the world workes with the multitude . when they see men goe simply in the streets , and bow downe their heads like a bull-rush , their inward parts burning with deceit , wringing their necks awry , shaking their heads as if they were in some present griefe , lifting up the white of their eyes at the sight of some vanity , giving great groanes , crying out against this sin and that sinne in their superiours , under colour of long prayers , devouring widowes , and married wives houses ; when the multitude heares and sees such men , they are carryed away with a great conceit of them , but if they should judge of these men by their fruits , not by outward appearance , they should find them to be very farre from the true religion . see here the froth of a scurrilous libeller , whereby it is concluded that he that is of severe life , and averse from the common vanities of the time , is an hypocrite : if these descriptions of outward austerity shall not onely shew what is an hypocrite , but point out also who is an hypocrite , our saviour himselfe wil hardly escape this description ; doubtles our saviour , and many of his devoutest followers did groane , shake their heads , and lift up their eyes at the sight of some publick sins , and vanities , and did not spare to taxe the vices of superiours , and to preach too , and admonish the meaner sort of the people ; yet who but an annas or caiphas will infer from hence that therefore their inward parts burne with deceit , and that their end is meerely to carry away the multitude ; such as judge onely by outward appearance , and have not their senses exercised to discerne betwixt good and evill ? it is likely the high priests and pharisees did thus blaspheme in those dayes , and that the rather , because from their owne fayned sanctity , they were the more apt to suspect the same in others : but what ? must we needs follow them , or this bishop in this ? but to proceed with this bishop , saint james ( sayes he ) gives us a full description of true religion . wisedome from above is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , and easie to be intreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without judging , and hypocrisie . none of these properties will agree with the religion of puritans . it is not pure , for it allowes vsury , sacriledge , disobedience , rebellion , &c. it is not peaceable , for these men are the incendiaryes of christendome . it is not gentle , nor easie to be intreated , for they are more austere then cato , and not to be moved by perswasion or command . it is not full of mercy and good fruits , for they are all for sacrifice , nothing for mercy ; for the first table , not the second ; for faith , not charity ; they pull down churches , but build no hospitals . it is not without judging , for they are known to be most rigid censurers . and he is an hypocrite which spyes a moate in his brothers eyes , and not a beame in his owne . here is a confused proofe , that such puritans are hypocrits , but no proofe at all , that this man is such a puritan . if my lord say be such a puritan , this denotes him an hypocrite , but this does not prove that my lord say or brooke , or dod , or clever , &c. or any the most famous puritan living is guilty of vsury , sacriledge , rebellion , pulling downe of churches , setting the world on fire , or of renouncing the second table and all workes of justice and charity , or of censuring and condemning malignantly other men : if these things were true of particular men , calumny were needlesse ; accusation would better suppresse them . and sure it is not out of favour that law proceeds not , for malice has often enough shewed her teeth , and would have bitten if she could , neither would she now calumniate if she could accuse . the bishop expects not to be beleeved , if he puzzell , and worke some into doubt , it is sufficient : but since bitter censuring , and calumnious condemning of others is so infallible a signe of hypocrisie , how does the bishop wipe this off from himselfe ? can puritans speake worse of any , then he doth of puritans ? sure they may well joyn with him upon this issue , that the greatest slanderer is the greatest hypocrite ; and yet seeke no further for slanders , then this very speech , wherein he so eagerly inveighs against slander ; but if individuals cannot be thus convinced by the bishop , how shall these signes and symptomes be applied to whole sects , religions , kingdomes ? the most ordinary badge of puritans is their more religious and conscionable conversation , than that which is seene in other mens : and why this should make them odious or suspected of hypocrisie amongst honest and charitable men , i could never yet learne . a seeming religious consists in doing actions outwardly good , and the goodnesse of those actions is apparent to man ; but the false hypocriticall end of them is onely discerned by god : and therefore with what conscience can i condemne that good which is visible , for that evill which is not visible ? say , brooke , dod , clover , &c. are knowne to me ; yet no otherwise but as men singularly devote , and as all the prophets , and apostles would , if they were now living : and shall i conclude , because they seeme so , therefore they are not so ? i am so far from this , that my owne conscience bindes me to honour them , and that in those things , wherein i have not the grace to follow them . i have beene a diligent inquirer into puritans , and have exactly tryed them three wayes . first , in themselves ; and so i finde them zealous , at least seeming so outwardly , and distinguisht principally from other men by their remarkable , and singular zeal to god and the truth : and this to me is no ground of uncharitable censure . secondly , in those , which in these times thinke and speake charitably of them ; and they are so many in number , and of so good quality , that indeed to the popish and episcopall faction , all the kingdome almost seemes puritanicall ; but for this i cannot thinke the worse of them . but thirdly , when i consider puritans , and compare them with their common notorious adversaries , then their goodnesse seemes most evident to me , as if it were legibly ingraved in the open wickednesse and scandall of their chiefe opposers . nothing but truth , holinesse , and goodnesse , seemes to me to be the cause , that papists do so implacably abominate them : that our proud hierarchists , ambidexters , and neuters in religion , do so uncessantly pursue their subversion ; that court-flatterers , and time-serving projectors , and the ravenous caterpillars of the realme , doe so virulently prosecute them with defamations and contumelies ; that stage-poets , minstrels , and the jesting buffoones of the age , make them the principall subject of derision : lastly , that all the shamelesse rout of drunkards , lechers , and swearing ruffians ; and the scum of the vulgar are so tickled with their reproach , and abuse . certainly , nothing but an unappeaseable antipathy could be the cause of all this , and no testimony of goodnesse can be more sure , un-erring , and unanswerable then such antipathy . amongst wicked men there may be particular hatred , but not a generall antipathy : one wicked man hates not another as wicked , but rather loves him therefore , or else the world did not observe a decorum in loving her own , and hating strangers . as there cannot be division in satans kingdome ; so there cannot be communion or compatibility betwixt christs and satans subjects but 't is a miserable thing to see how farre this word puritan in an ethical sense dilates it selfe . heretofore it was puritanicall to abstaine from small sinnes ; but now 't is so to abstaine from grosse open sinnes . in the mouth of a drunkard , he is a puritane which refuseth his cups ; in the mouth of a swearer , he which feares an oath ; in the mouth of a libertine , he which makes any scruple of common sinnes ; in the mouth of a rude souldier , he which wisheth the scotch warre at an end without blood . it is sufficient that such men thinke themselves tacitly checked and affronted by the unblameable conversation of puritans . bishop lake that good and godly man moved at the declining state of his time is said to have expressed his regret thus : we feare , saith he , a relapse into popish error , and superstition ; but my heart misgives me worse than so : vtter irreligion and atheisme , me thinkes , begins to prevaile strangely amongst us : we are not so likely to lose the light of truth , as the heate of zeale ; and what benefit is in religion , where the name of it is honoured , but the power of it is not at all seene ? where gods will is truely understood , but his commands are wholly slighted ? where men know like christians , but live like heathens ? the soule of religion is hearty devotion , and that growes dayly more and more ridiculous amongst us ; and yet religion without the soule of it , is rather a curse than a blessing to us . no impiety is so hainous in an ignorant sodomite , as want of piety is in a right instructed israelite . in this wise i have heard that good prelate did complaine ; and this makes me think , that he had in his complaint some respect to this word puritan , then which , certainly the divell hath not a more fatall engine whereby to confound religion , and to subvert all true zeale , goodnesse , and devotion . thus farre it appeares what a vast circumference this word puritans has , and how by its large acception it is used to cast durt in the face of all goodnesse , theologicall , civill , or morall : so that scarce any moderate man can avoid its imputation . and thus it does mischiefe to men , not commonly noted for puritans , but if a man be so noted , though perhaps irregularly , then it is farther otherwise abused : for all such a mans evill shall be charged upon his puritanisme , and all his good defaced for his puritanisme . such a man is condemned for murther , and adultery ; and at his death gives strong assurances of unfaigned repentance , and contrition of heart . he was a christian , a protestant , a minister , a puritan ; yet this crime is recorded and blowne abroad , not for the shame of christians , protestants , ministers , but of puritans . and as for his attestation of deep humiliation , how excellent soever , the honour of them , if any be acknowledged , shall redound to the christian , the protestant , the minister , to any thing else except the puritan . howsoever in the first place it ought to be observed , that an uncleane streame does not alwayes receive it's uncleannesse from the filth of the fountaine , but in the second place a pure streame necessarily infers a pure source . 't is true , trees are knowne by their fruits , and so are men generally by their workes ; but this similitude holdes not in all men , at all times : for good men sometimes commit foule sinnes , and bad men performe laudable services . david defiles vriahs wife , and to conceale it from the world , makes drunke and murders vriah ; and together with him casts away the lives of many other faithfull souldiers : yet nothing moved at this his owne mis-doing , at the same time he sentences to death a subject of his for damnifying a neighbour , to the value of a poor lamb . what might joab , & the other privy ministers of these his foul deeds , censure all this while of this his externally professed sanctity , and purity , and strictnes in point of justice to other men ; or of his so great indignation against petty offenders ? what might they judge of the root , from whence these fruits sprung ? did they conclude these fruits good ? or did they conceive that such fruits might grow upon a good stocke ? it 's strange , that he which would be so rigid to a petty fellon , should himselfe finde no remorse at his owne murther and oppression , in spoiling so gallant a commander , of his wife , of his sobriety , of his life , and to continue so long a time without regard either what himselfe had done , or what vriah had suffered . but it 's well , david lived in those times when the name of puritanisme was not invented to blast all goodnesse : had he lived amongst us , he had beene accounted a puritane , and being a puritane , god might have forgiven him , but the world never would : but it seemes the world was not then poysoned with the same base word , though i beleeve under some other nicke-name goodnesse was alwaies odious : for we reade , that for that very sinne of david , gods name was evill spoken of amongst the wicked . so solomon the sonne of seduced bathsheba , if we censure him by many of his actions , perhaps jeroboam , and ahab that made israel to sinne , were not personally addicted to so much excesse of bodily lust , and pollution , nay perhaps many heathens and turkes have detested his enormous lubricities . i speak not this to countenance sin , but to discountenance rash censures of sinners , wishing all that thinke themselves fraile and mortall , to turne their eyes inwards , and to lay their hands upon their own mouths , forbearing to censure all sins , but most especially the most latent and obscure of all sinnes , hypocrisie . solyman the magnificent is held the honestest of all the princes which raigned in his time , not excepting christian princes , nay not excepting the great father of them all , the apostolick man of rome : yet this is no shame to christianity , but to christians rather ; nay i wish it might be accounted rather a rebuke , then a shame ; rather a rebuke to humble them , then a shame to confute them . for christ tels us that many times the first are last , and last first , god sees not as man sees , and yet he that will judge uprightly ought to see as god sees , and not as man . so much of the extensive infamy of this word puritan , now of its intensive malignancy : but little more needs to be spoken hereof , for hee which tels you who is a puritan , for the most part tels what is a puritan . the papist we see hates one kind of puritans , the hierarchist another , the court sycophant another , the sensuall libertine another ; yet all hate a puritan , and under the same name many times hate the same thing . he which is an enemy to our religion which is the truth , hates the puritan as an enemy to truth ; hee which is an enemy to piety , policy , morality , charges the puritan of being the same : wherefore whatsoever is hated by the perverted and disaffected in religion , piety , policy , morality , is a puritan , and whosoever is a puritan , is censured , hated , and slandered as a man perverted and disaffected in religion , piety , policy , and morality . this sufficiently appeares by the common slanders of all goodnesse in these dayes , and particularly by the bishop of downe , for as he justifies jesuites , anabaptists , and the powder-traytors before puritans ; so he describes , and proscribes whole religions , sects , and kingdomes for puritans . in the yeare of grace 1588 , when the spanish armado had miscarried , notwithstanding that his holinesse of rome had so peremptorily christened it , and as it were conjured for it , one of that religion was strangely distemper'd at it , & his speech was as 't is reported , god himselfe was turned lutheran : by which , for certaine , he meant hereticall . 't is much therefore that my lord of downe , now that episcopacy is so foyled in scotland , has not raged in the like manner , and charged god of turning puritan : but surely , if he has spared god , he has not spared any thing else that is good ; and if he has spared to call god puritan , he has not spared to call puritan devill : but to conclude , if the confused misapplication of this foule word puritan be not reformed in england , and that with speed , we can expect nothing but a suddaine universall downfall of all goodnesse whatsoever . aelius adrianus the emperour , about an hundred yeares after our saviour , having been certified by serenius granianus , proconsul of asia , that the christians in those parts were illegally oppressed by the malice of unjust sycophants , sends this his imperiall edict to the next successor minutius fundanus . if the provincials can prove ought against the christians , whereof they charge them , and can at the bar of justice make good the same , let them proceed in a judiciall course : but let them not appeach the christians meerely for the name , by clamouring , and rayling scandals against them : for it is expedient , if any be disposed to accuse , that the accusation be throughly known , and judicially tryed by you ; therefore if any accuse the christians that they transgresse the lawes , see that you judge and punish according to the quality of the offence , but if any upon spite or malice by way of calumny complain against them , see you chastise such for their malice , and repay them with condigne punishment . i began with a marquesse , i end with an emperour : both read the same lecture , both teach us a difference betwixt privy malicious calumny and open judiciall accusing , or impleading ; god send us to hearken to both , as much as the necessity of our case requires it . finis . to the reader . reader , i have said enough to make my selfe condemned for a puritan , and by consequence , all which i have said to be condemned for puritanicall : but verily , if thou art not an antipuritan of the worst kinde , i am not a puritan . in my opinions i am not scrupulous or precise , in my life i am not strict , or austere , the more is my blame ; if thou art a downe-right protestant , and no more , i am the same , and no more . if thou thinkest some men religious which affect not the name of puritan , i thinke so too : if thou thinkest most men irreligious which hate the name of puritan , i thinke so too : if thou art not to me a violent antipuritan , i have no quarrell with thee ; nor am i a puritan to thee : if thou art , hate me as a profest puritan , and i will thanke thee for the honour of it . farewell . thine to feare thee , more then hate thee , and to feare thy malice rather then justice , philus adelphus . the key of saving knovvledge, opening out of the holy scriptures, the right way, and straight passage to eternall life, or, a dialogue wherein the chiefe principles of the christian religion are unfolded for the enabling of christian people, to understand the word of god ... composed by geo. walker ... walker, george, 1581?-1651. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a67085 of text r39413 in the english short title catalog (wing w360). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 134 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 62 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a67085 wing w360 estc r39413 18400047 ocm 18400047 107490 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a67085) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107490) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1134:16) the key of saving knovvledge, opening out of the holy scriptures, the right way, and straight passage to eternall life, or, a dialogue wherein the chiefe principles of the christian religion are unfolded for the enabling of christian people, to understand the word of god ... composed by geo. walker ... walker, george, 1581?-1651. [10], 113 p. printed by tho. badger, london : mdcxli [1641] imperfect: print show-through. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library. eng puritans -england -apologetic works. theology, doctrinal -17th century. a67085 r39413 (wing w360). civilwar no the key of saving knovvledge, opening out of the holy scriptures, the right way, and straight passage to eternall life. or a dialogue wherei walker, george 1641 24881 52 0 0 0 0 0 21 c the rate of 21 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 jonathan blaney sampled and proofread 2005-01 jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the key of saving knowledge , opening out of the holy scriptures , the right way , and straight passage to eternall life . or a dialogue wherein the chiefe principles of christian religion are unfolded for the enabling of christian people , to understand the word of god and to atteine to the true sense and mean●ng thereof . composed by geo. walker b. of div. and pastor of s iohn the evangelists church in london . london , printed by tho. badger . m.dc.xli . to his little flock , the inhabitants of the parish of s. iohn the evangelist in watlingstreet in london , georg● walker their weake , but wellwishing ●astor , commendeth this small token of his unfeined love , and hearty desire of their eternall happinesse in the fruition of god ; by their fellowship and communion with him in the lord iesus christ . beloved in the lord christ , seeing now i have spent one halfe of my dayes in preaching to you and your predecessors the gospell of christ , in expounding the sacred scriptures , & in watching and labouring for the good of your soules , to wit , for the space of 29 yeares , untill there is not one left alive of all those inhabitants , who were masters of families at my first coming to this place , and did all with one consent and voyce make choyce of me to be their pastor : i hold it high time for me , to thinke of my departure from hence by putting off this earthly tabernacle , and of leaving you as your predecessors who were my first flocke , have left me their pastor behind them to feed you a succeeding generation . and least my labour and paines , which i spent among them for the good of their soules should seeme to die with them , and to bee buried in their graves : i have thought good to renew the memory of them ; and to leave to the world some monuments of that doctrin i have preached to them heretofore , as also to you of latter times , by gods gracious assistance , though in great weaknesse of body , yet with a willing mind , and with a courage never daunted with any menacings and threatenings of potent adversaries , and malicious persecutors . the principall heads and true platforme of which doctrine i have briefly comprised , and compendiously set forth in this short dialogue , which containes in it the principles and foundations of christian religion and which i do here commend to you , as a testimony of that unfeigned love which i beare to you , and of my fervent desire of the salvation of your soules . i have already published , and have ready for the presse divers larger treatises , wherein are conteined many particular doctrines which may be reduced to these principall heads ; and are there largely handled , plainly opened , and fully proved by scriptures ; and the true use of them shewed in such manner as they have beene by my mouth publikly preached among you . but this golden key , which is the quintessence of them all , will open heaven unto you , if you can learn to use it aright . it is made of divine metall , even the word of god revealed from heaven , which is more pure than the most refined gold . it will teach you by a short and compendious way to know god , not only in the unity of essence in his essentiall attributes ; in the trinity of persons , and in his works of creation , and actuall providence overruling mans fall , and disposing it and all the evils which entered in by it , to his own glory , and the good of his elect : but also in iesus christ , in whom to know him the only true god is eternall life , as our saviour testifieth , iohn 12. 3. here gods eternall counsell and decree of predestination is discovered : here you may learn the saving works of god , in and by christ , god and man humbled in our nature . what love god hath shewed in giving his son for us ; and what christ hath done and suffered for our redemption . here you may see what saving works god works by his spirit , shed on his elect through christ , as regeneration , renovation , effectuall calling , vnion with christ , adoption , communion of his ransome for redemption , of his righteousnesse for iustification , of his satisfaction for remission of sins , and reconciliation . and what gods spirit works in us and by us , as mortification , sanctification , faith , repentance and all holy graces ; and how and by what meanes he enables us to apply christ and his benefits unto us , and to enioy him and them for salvation ; and also doth beget and increase grace in his elect , to wit , by the word preached and heard , the sacraments rightly administred and received , faithfull and fervent prayer , and the like . and how these worke in the elect to eternall life and blessednesse , and are abused by wicked reprobates , to their owne everlasting damnation and destruction . these things have i written to you fathers and masters , that you may read them your selves , and commend them to your children and families ; i commend them to you young men , that you may grow strong , and may overcome the wicked one . and i commend them to you litle children ; that you may learne to know his name , and that your sins may be forgiven you for his names sake . if after so much preaching & teaching you be found ignorant & unprofitable , it is because the god of this world hath blinded your minds , least the light of the glorious gospell of christ , who is the image of god , should shine unto you . this word will be to you the savour of death unto death , and this booke shall witnesse for me against you , that you are wilfully ignorant and a lost people . but if , as i hope , and pray fervently and wish from my heart ; you do chearefully receive the love of this truth : then shall my doctrine bee to you the savour of life unto life , and wee shall both together , i of my worke and labour in preaching , and you of your reverence in hearing , and faithfulnesse in obeying the word preached , receive the reward of righteousnesse , which christ hath purchased for them that beleeve and obey the gospell , even the crown of glorie , which never fadeth . this briefe summe of christian religion , with other more large treatises i have written in my bonds , for the common benefit of you and others , to testifie unto you , that the many waters of troubles and persecutions , which i suffer for the truth sake , which i have preached unto you , cannot quench my love to you , nor my desire of your salvation , nor hinder mee from labouring for your good . in all which i seeke not yours , but you . and as i have preached the gospell freelie to you , never seeking any of your temporall goods , for my ministring of spirituall things plentifullie unto you ; but spending besides my spirits , much substance over and above the revenues of my smal benefice , which from you i have received ; so i commend to you freely this and all other works and labours of my love , which if you do lovinglie accept and use , and imploy to your own advantage , i shall thinke my work in some good measure rewarded , and shall ever remaine a faithfull labourer for the good of your soules , according to the utmost of my power , and your welwilling , though weake pastor , geo. walker . a briefe dialogue , wherein the father examineth his son , concerning the principles of religion , in which he hath formerly instructed him . quest . my deare child , why doest thou complaine because of thy sicknesse , and many paines and infirmities which often doe befall thee , seeing thou by thy sins pullest them upon thee , and causest god thus to punish and correct thee ? answer . indeed in my book of the of the psalmes of david , i am taught to confesse , that i was shapen in iniquity , and that in sin hath my mother conceived me , but this is the fault of you that are my parents , from whom i received in my birth and with my first being this sinfull corruption . quest . it is true , that wee brought thee into this world a poore sinfull wretch . but doest thou not know , that this corruption commeth not from our selves , as the first causes of it , but from our first parents in whom thou and we and all mankind have sinned against god , and lost that image and likenesse of god , in which wee were created , and are so infected with the poyson a●d malice of the devill , which hee breathed into our first parents , that wee have no power , or will to do the good which god requireth of us in his law ; but are forward to run into all sins which god forbiddeth . answ. i remember now when you put me in mind of it , that you have taught me oftentimes , that god created all things good at the first , and in adam he created all man-kind in his owne image and likenesse ; and that the devill by the serpent did tempt the woman , and breathed into her his poyson and drew her into sin , and by her infected adam , who was the root and stock of all man-kind ; and by drawing him into transgression , did corrupt him and all man-kind , defaced gods image in us al , and stained and defiled our nature , so that eversince we are by nature children of wrath and disobedience , who of our selves have no power to will or do any good , but do run into sin and actuall transgression continually . quest . i see and perceive by this , that you are ready to forget those instructions of godlinesse which you have often learned , and have need to have your memory often rubbed up . and therefore i will stirre you up to remember the things which i have often taught you , by asking you questions concerning the chiefe points of christian religion which you have learned , that they may be more deeply printed in your mind , and that you may have them more ready to put them in practise when occasion shall be offered . answ. i acknowledge my selfe bound in a double bond of thankefulnesse unto you , both for your godly paines in t●aching me saving knowledge , and for your fatherly care , to ma●e me remember the things which you have taught me , that i may both beleeve and practise the things which god requireth of me , for the obteining of eternall life , and blessednesse . quest . my paines of teaching you , are a pleasure to me , when i see you willing to bee instructed . and if you answer readily the questions which i shall aske you concerning the grounds of religion , which i have heretofore taught you , i shall rejoice in hope and confidence that god hath chosen you to be a vessell of honour ▪ called you to the state of grace , and prepared you for the state of glory in heaven . answ. i acknowledge with all thankfulnesse gods infinite love , mercy and bounty to me , in that hee hath ordeined me to be borne of godly and christian parents , who as they were meanes to bring me into the world , a corrupt sinfull child of adam , so are gods speciall instruments to beget me to god a new creature in iesus christ , by instructing me in his holy word , by which his holy spirit doth take possession of my soule , worketh in me faith , and renueth me after the image of christ ; wherefore i am ready according to my best understanding and memory to answer every question which you shall aske , concerning the things which i have before heard and learned from your mouth , humbly beseeching god to print in my heart , and to enable me by his grace to practise in my life the things , which by your often urging and pressing are printed in my memory . quest . my first question therefore shall be about that which is the first work of god , by which he gave to man-kind their first being , i meane the creation of adam and all man-kind in him , tell mee what you have been taught concerning it ? answ. first , i have learned that god created the whole world and all things therein , gen. 1. & 2. quest . what god is he who did performe and perfect so great a work ? answ ▪ he who is the one only true god , and besides whom there is no other god , deut. 6. 4. & isay 45. 5. quest . what a one do you conceive this god to be ? answ. i conceive him to bee such a one as his most proper name jehovah doth signifie . quest . what doth that name signifie ? answ. it signifieth that he is and hath his being of himselfe from all eternity , without beginning and without end , and that bee giveth being , motion , breath , life , and all other things , to all creatures which live , move , and breath , and to all other things which have been , are , or shall bee in the world , and without him nothing can ●e or come to passe , exod. 3. 14. quest . what do you learn from thence ? answ. i learne , first , that god is most absolute of himselfe , and depends upon none other , neither needeth , either for his being , glory , or blessednesse any help , or for the increase of them . secondly , that he is before all things , and is the first cause of them . thirdly , that he is eternall , even one who was before all times , and is and shall be the same for ever , without beginning , and without end . fourthly , that he is immutable and unchangeable in his nature , essence and being , and in his counsels , will and all other his attributes and properties . fiftly , that he is most perfect , one who wanteth nothing , but hath in him all excellencies to the full , so that nothing can bee added to him to increase his goodnesse or blessednesse . sixthly , that he is infinite and incomprehensible , no tongue can utter , no eye can see , nor eare heare , nor heart conceive , nor reason and understanding comprehend him or his excellencies . quest . wherein doth his infinitnesse consist ? answ. it consists in this , that he hath no bounds , nor limits , but is above all degrees of comparison , his whole essence is at all times pr●sent in all places ; and neither heaven , nor the heaven of heavens , nor all places in the world can conteine him , or measure his substance . he is infinit in wisdome , knowledge , power , goodnesse , mercy , iustice , will , counsell , and all other attributes and properties , able to do whatsoever he will . he seeth and knoweth all things , which are , have beene , shall be , or can be , and his will is the rule of all things , and is limitted to no rule or law , but is it selfe the rule and law of all things . quest . if god be infinite in essence and will , and all attributes , and wholy present in all places by his whole essence , and all his attributes : how comes it to passe that he sheweth his glory above the heavens more than in the world which is below , and in one place hee do●h shew more power , and justice , and in another place , and to other persons hee sheweth more goodnesse , gra●e and mercy ? answ. there is great difference betweene god , as he is in himselfe , and as he is seene , felt , and apprehended by his creatures in his word , and workes : though he is omnipotent and can do all things , yet he doth not worke all things in all to the full , according to his infinite power , but only so much as he pleaseth , when , & where and in whom he will , as in his wisdome he thinkes fit for every one neither can wee see and conceive gods essence , and properties in themselves , but in the effects and works of them , which are limitted by his will and wisdome . and though hee worketh by degrees and by measure : yet his essence and essentiall properties are without measure and degree , and his word is fitted to our capacy . quest . what other properties do you conceive to be in god ? answ. there is no shadow of excellency , vertue , goodnesse , or grace in any creature , but it is in god essentially , and substancially , one and the same thing with his very essence and substance . he is essentially , good , wise , iust , mercifull , gracious and loving , and even goodnesse , wisdome , iustice and mercy it selfe : and as the apostle saith , that god is love , so we may truely and most properly say of him , that he is goodnesse , wisdom , iustice , and mercy ; and yet hee is in himselfe a most pure and simple essence , free from all mixture , composition and division . quest . wherein doth this purity , and simplicity of god consist ? answ. it consists , first in this , that though god filleth heaven & earth , and is in and withall creatures : yet his substance is not mingled with any of them . secondly , that hee is not compounded of things different , neither of act and power as other spiriturall substances are , nor of matter and forme , substance and accidents , such as quantity , quality and the like , as bodily creatures are . thirdly , that he cannot bee divided into severall parts , as mens bodies are . he is not of the same kind and nature with any other thing whatsoever : but is a most pure simple spirit , or spirituall substance , in comparison of whom the most pure spirits and angels are but grosse substances and impure : in a word his substance and properties are all one and the same thing ; and wheresoever he is present , there his whole essence , and all and every one of his essentiall properties are actually present , even in all places at once . quest . if god be only one most pure and simple : why do the scriptures speak of three persons , the father , the sonne , and the holy ghost , and doe call every one of them iehovah and god ? though there is but one god , and one iehovah , even one most pure and simple nature and essence : yet in this one pure simple , undivided essence , there are three distinct persons , the father , son , and holy ghost , all which three are but one iehovah , and one god , and every one of them is called iehovah and god ; because they are all of one and the same simple and divine essence . quest . how are they then three persons distinguished one from another ? answ. they are distinguished , not by their essence , and nature , which in all three is one singular and undivided : but by their personall subsistence and properties . quest . which are they ? answ. first , the father subsists of himself and is not begotten of any , but begets the son : the son is begotten of the father from all eternity , and receives his personall subsistence , from the person of the father alone : the father and the son together breath out the spirit , and the spirit hath his subsistence by proceeding from them from all eternity . secondly , in order the father is the first , the son the second , and the holy ghost the third ; though in time and dignity , none of them is before or after other ; but all are coeternall , consubstantiall and coequall of the same dignity , glory and majesty . quest . how can he who is jehovah and god eternall , proceed and receive his personall subsistence from another ? seeing jehovah the true god , is of himselfe and can receive nothing from any ? answ. it is true that the persons considered according to their nature and substance , which is common to all three , and is one and the same in them all , cannot beget nor be begotten , nor proceed one from another . for if god absolutely considered , could beget , as he is an absolut essence , or be begotten , or proceed ; then there might be more gods than one . but a person or personall subsistence in that one simple essence of god may beget another person , but not another god , and may be begotten and proceed , not from the simple essence of god , but from another person in that one essence ▪ wherefore the son is begotten not as he is one and the same essence with the father , but as hee is another person in that essence : and so the holy ghost proceeds from the father and the son , as he is another person in the same essence : and so iehovah the true god doth proceed from none , nor receiveth any thing from any : but a person which subsists in the essence of god , and is iehovah the true god , receiveth subsistence from another person in the same essence . quest . i see you do rightly conceive of god the creator , both in the unity of his essence , and in the trinity of persons . now tell me which of the three persons created the world ? answ. though the father is called the creator of whom are all things : yet he alone did not create the world , nor any thing in it , but the son and the spirit also did work with the father , and had an equall hand in the creation of every thing : for in all the outward works of god , that is the joynt operation of all the three persons . quest . how doth it appeare that the creation is the work of all the three persons ? answ. by plaine testimonies of holy scripture , for in the description of the creation , we have expresse mention of the word , that is the sonne , and of the spirit , gen. 1. 1 , 2 , 3. and david , psal. 33. 6. saith , by the word of the lord were the heavens made , and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth , that is , b● the son & the spirit . for the sonne is called the eternall word , one god with the father , by whom all things were made , and without whom nothing was made that was made , john 1 ▪ 1 , 2 , 3. and the apostle , colos. 1. 16. saith that by christ the son all things were created that are in heaven and earth , visible and invisible , and by him all things consist . quest . you have well declared the truth concerning the creator , now tell mee whereof the world was made ? answ. god made all things of nothing at the first , to wit , the highest heavens with the angels and all the host of them ; and also the earth that is the rude masse without forme and voyd , which was the common matter of all the visible world , and this is called simple and primary creation . afterwards god created out of that rude matter the li●ht , that is , the fiery and starry heavens and the large element of the aire , which is called the firmament , and the sea , and the dry land , and then out of those foure elements hee formed and made all other things , as the sunne , moone and stars , the herbs , plants , and trees ; the stones and mettals , the fishes , birds and all other living creatures ; and this is called , secondary creation , because all those things were not made first and immediatly of nothing : but secondarily were formed out of a matter , which god had before created of nothing ; and so al creatures had their first beginning , and being out of nothing ▪ so mighty and omnipotent is gods hand farre above the reach of mans reason . quest . after what manner did god create the world and all things therein ? answ. the scriptures teach us that hee created all things : first , most freely by the liberty of his will , not by necessity of nature ▪ secondly , not rashly , but according to his most wise counsell and eternall purpose . thirdly , with great ease , and facility , without paines , toyle or labour . quest . how doth that appeare ? answ. by the words of moses in the history of the creation , where it is recorded , that god in the creation did but say let things be , and so they were made ; so he is said to creat the light , the firmament , the waters , the dry land , the lights in heaven , the hearbes and trees , and all things living and moving on the earth and in the sea . he said let them be , and they were made and brought into being , gen. 1 ▪ 2 ▪ 6 , 9 , &c. quest . how doth this speech shew that god created all things in such manner as you have said , to wit , freely , wisely , and with ease and facility ? answ. very plainely , for these words are not to bee understood properly that god uttered a sound of words : but the phrase is metaphoricall borrowed from the doings of men . for workes done by necessity of nature , men do without consulting or speaking , or any pr●scription or direction given by word of mouth . the things which men first speake of , and then do , are done by liberty of will ; and therfore this phrase teacheth us , that the creation was a work done , not by necessity of nature , but by liberty of will , that is a work which god , if he had so been pleased , might have left undone , and did therefore do , because it was his free will to do it . secondly , wise men do not command , or prescribe things to be done unlesse they have consulted , purposed , and determined , that they shall be so done . their words by which they command , and prescribe the doing of great works , are the open manifestation of their mind , will purpose , and decree ; and the first thing which belongs to the actuall performing and effecting of the worke . and therefore this phrase teacheth us , that as god in his eternall counsell had wisely purposed and decreed ; so now god the father by his word the son , and by his spirit , began to put his wise counsell in execution , and actually to create and make all things , and to bring them outwardly into being according to his wise counsell , and as hee had inwardly purposed in himselfe , so the creation was a work not rashly done , but wisely according to counsell . thirdly this phrase sheweth , that as among men , nothing can bee done with greater ease and facility , and with lesse toyle or labour , then when they only say the word let it be done , and presently it is done , without any more paines : so it was with god in the creation , he did as easily and without paines create all things as a man doth a thing by saying let it be , which of al things is most easie as experience teacheth . quest . what speciall things have you learned concerning the creation of man-kind ? answ. foure things especially . first , that god consulted about it saying , let us make man . secondly , that hee made man after his owne image and likenesse , male and female . thirdly , that he gave them domination over all other creatures in the inferiour world . fourthly , that he created a place of pleasure for them to dwell in , and there placed them . quest . how doe you understand these words ? and god said , let us make man in our image and after our likenesse ? answ. they are thus to bee understood , not that god the father , sonne , and holy ghost did then first enter into consultation about mans creation : but that as god in the common counsell of the blessed trinity , had from all eternity purposed and decreed ; so now hee began to put his decree into execution and actually to create man , after such a manner and such a creature as hee had decreed , even stamped with his image , fit to rule over other creatures . quest . shew me more particularly how god created man in his own image male and female ? answ. first , he made adam of the dust of the earth , and with breath of life , created a soule in him , and hee made him one only , that he might bee the common stocke and roote of all mankind , from whom the woman also might have her beginning , and bee made of his flesh and bone , even of a fleshy rib taken out of him . secondly , he made them both in his own image , the man first , and when man appeared so excellent above all living creatures , that among them all there could not be found a mate , or help meet for him ; then hee tooke a rib of the man and made a female , the woman meete for him in the same image , and after the same likenesse . quest . wherein did the image ●f god consist , and how was man like unto god ? answ. this image did consist , first and principally in his soule , s●condarily in his body , and thirdly in his whole person . first , in the substance of his soule , he was like to god ; for as god is a spirit , so mans soule was created a spirit or spirituall living substance . secondly , in the powers and faculties of his soule , to wit , his reason , will , desires , and affections , in all which created perfect and upright in him , he was like unto god ; for as god knoweth and understandeth all things : so man by his reason was able to know and understand all things , meet for him . as god hath liberty of will , so man had liberty of will to do all things , which by his upright reason , he knew to bee good & in his power . as god loveth goodnesse and delighteth in it , so man loved and desired all good things , which his upright reason and will did lead him unto . in all this did the image of god primarily consist . quest . how did he beare gods image , and was like to him in his body ? answ. first , in the upright stature , beauty , glory , and majesty of his body ; secondly , in the abilities , actuity and fitnesse of all members of his body , to move , work and performe all things , unto which his upright reason , will , and affections did move him and direct him . quest . how was man like to god in his whole person ? answ. first , as he was perfectly upright , both in soule , and body , and in his whole person conformable to gods will , and fit and able to serve and obey him . secondly , as he was in his whole person , soule and body , endowed with all ability and fitnesse , to rule over all other visible living creatures , and to bee the lord of them ; so hee bare the image of god , and was like to him the supreme lord of all . quest . did not gods image in adam consist in holinesse also , as some do teach from the apostles words , ephes. 4. 24. answ. the image of the first adam consisted only in naturall uprightnesse , as wise salomon teacheth , eccles. 7. 29. and his perfections , gifts , and endowments were only naturall . but holynesse is a property of the 2 adam christ , and is a supernaturall work and gift of the spirit , which in our new birth is shed on us only through iesus christ , and is the image of the new man made a new creature in christ , as the apostles words plainly sh●w in the fore-named place , ephes. 4. ●4 . & 1 cor. 15. 49. & tit. 3. 6. if man had been holy , he could not have fallen as hee did . quest . wherein did mans dominion over the creatures consist ? answ. it consisted in this , that as man was in nature above them all , and had reason and wisdome to order and rule them : so god made them all obedient to man , and put in them a reverence and love of man , insomuch that they delighted , and rejoyced to look on man and to come to him at his call and to shew their nature and severall qualities , that man might admire gods manifold wisdome shewed in their creation , and in the workemanship of them . quest . had not man power to sacrifice , kill , and eat them ▪ as men have had since the fall ? answ. no verily , for all death , groaning and vanity of the creatures came in by mans sin : mans meat in the state of innocency was only fruits of trees , and herbes bearing seed , gen. 1 29. but after mans fall , and the promise of christ , god through christ inlarged mans dominion over the creatures , and appointed the killing and sacrificing of birds , and beasts to foreshew christs death for mans redemption from sin , and withall gave the flesh of them to man for meat , and their skins to cloath him ; and hereby wee see that wee gaine more by christ , than we lost in adam . quest . what place of pleasure was that which god made for mans dwelling and habitation ? answ. it was the garden which god planted in eden , the most fruitfull place of mesopotamia , in which he made to grow out of the ground , all trees pleasant to the sight , and good for food ; and in that paradise of pleasure , all delights did abound which the world could afford to a naturall man . a river divided into foure streames watered it , and there was no want of any thing , which mans upright heart could conceive or desire . quest . what service did god require of man for all this bounty and goodnesse , and all the delights and honour bestowed on him ? answ. hee required no more service of man over and above that which his own reason , will , naturall appetite and affection did lead him to do of himselfe ; but only to abstaine from the fruit of one tree , even the tree of knowledge of good and evill , gen. 2. 16. 17. quest . was the fruit of that tree by nature evill , and hurtfull ? answ ▪ surely no , for all things which god made were very good , gen. 1. 31 and the fruit was pleasant to the eye , and good for food , gen. 3. 6. quest ▪ why then did god forbid man to eat of it ? answ ▪ for good reasons . first , to exercise and prove mans obedience . secondly , to shew that all other trees were of free gift given to man , and that god might as well have kept back all other trees , as this , if hee had would , which consideration might justly have moved man to acknowledge gods large bounty in giving him dominion over the whole earth , the sea , and all the creatures in them . quest . when god had made the world and al things therein very good , did he not by his wisedome and providence , rule , order and governe them ? answ. yes verily , he did and doth still by his wisdome so order , governe , and dispose all things , that without his will nothing can come to passe in all the world . quest . wherein doth that providence of god consist ? answ. first , in doing and working all the good which comes to passe in the world . for as he gave being to all things ; so he susteineth and keepeth them in their being by the word of his power , and by him all things consist . there is no good done in the world , but he bringeth it to passe , either immediatly by his own hand , or else by the power which he hath given and continueth to his creatures , and by his inclining and moving them to it . for hee worketh in them both to will and to do , philip . 2. 13. secondly , his providence consists in permitting and suffering his creatures to abuse his power and strength which he gives them , and to imploy it to sin and transgression . and if god had not wittingly and willingly suffered the devil and the evill angels to sin and fall , and to tempt and draw man into sinne , no evill nor sinne could have entered into the world . quest . how could god who is infinit in goodnesse willingly suffer sinne to enter into the world , which is a thing so hatefull to him ? answ. hee suffered it in his wisdome and goodnesse , not out of any pleasure , which he takes in sin , or any evill , or in the destruction of his creatures , but because by his omnipotency hee can out of evill bring greater good , than any , which is lost and forfeited by sin . for by hating sin hee sheweth his holinesse , by punishing it his justice , by redeeming his elect from it , his mercy , free grace , and goodnesse , by the evils which his elect do undergo for their tryall and correction , and the misery and torment which they see inflicted on reprobates , they are made more sensible of their own happinesse , and more blessed in the fruition of god and of his glory at last . and as a man who was never pinched with hunger , and paine of sicknesse , cannot so fully know the goodnesse of health , nor so sweetly tast and relish his meat ; so without sight and sense of evill we cannot so fully know , nor so sweetly enjoy our own happinesse , nor so perfectly rejoyce and glory in the fruition of god and all his goodnesse . quest . if sin comes to passe by the will and providence of god , how is god excused from being the author of sin ? answ. very well , for the bare willing and permitting of a thing , makes not him who willingly permits it the author and cause thereof . to make god the author of sin , or any way guilty of it ; there are three things required . first , that god do command , counsell , or perswade men to commit sin : or secondly , that he move , incline , or stir them up to it . or thirdly , that when he willingly permits and suffers it , and is able to hinde● it , he be bound by some law and bond of duty ( as men are ) to hinder it to the utmost of his power , and in no case to will it . but gods will hath no law besides it selfe ; as he is supreme lord of all , so he may will or not will where hee pleaseth . hee is bound by no law to restraine men from sin : hee may have mercy on whom he will , and whom he will , he may leave to be hardened . neither doth god command , counsell or perswade any man to sin by his word ; but hath given a law to the contrary , by which he forbids sin under paine of death . and never did hee tempt , move , incline , or stir up any to sinne : therefore he can neither bee the cause or author of sinne , nor any way partaker in the staine and guilt of it . quest . but doth not gods providence meddle any more with sinne , but only to permit it willingly and wittingly ? answ. yes certeinly , god by his providence doth hinder and limit sin , that it doth not break forth in all wicked men , nor prevaile to the utmost extremity . he doth also order and dispose the sins of the wicked to his own glory , and the good of his elect : he made the fiercenesse of pharaoh and senacherib turne to his honor , fame , and praise ; and the trechery of judas in betraying , and the cruelty and malice of the jewes , in murthering christ , he turned to the redemption of the world , and the salvation of his elect in christ , by his overruling power and goodnesse . quest . you have fully justified god from being the authour of sin . now tell me how man being made in gods image perfectly upright and good could bee drawne to disobey his commandement , which was so just , equall and easie to bee observed ? answ. by the power , malice and subtlety of the devill . for every creature is in it selfe mutable , and may decline and bee corrupted , unlesse it bee brought by covenant into communion with god , who onely hath immortality , and is of himselfe unchangeable . man though made perfect with all naturall perfection , was mutable in innocency , and therefore god made a covenant of life with him , upon condition of his obedience , hee gave him the tree of life to bee a seale of this covenant , and to confirme it , and to settle man so steadfastly in that naturall estate , that hee could not have beene seduced by any power or subtlety of the devill , if hee had received the seale by eating of the tree of life . but the devill prevented our first parents , before they had time to eat of that tree , and subtlety by the serpent insinuated himselfe into the woman , and by her , into the man before they were setled and established by the sealing of the covenant , breathed into them infidelity and ambition , and by his lyes brought them into an evill opinion of god , and so drew them into disobedience and transgression of gods commandement , and made both adam and all mankind , who were then in his loyns guilty before god , worthy of death , and subject to all the evils and curses which follow sin and disobedience . for adam the root and stock being corrupted , and stained with sin ; all the branches which spring from him , must needs bee partakers of the same corruption , and of the malice & enmity against god , which the devill breathed into him . thus the devil was the first author of mans sin and fall , and the serpent was his instrument . quest . if this be so , why do not the devill the author , and the serpent his instrument beare the punishment , but man and his posterity suffer for it ? answ ▪ the devill and the serpent are cursed for this sinne with an eternall curse , from which there is no redemption . and adam because by infidelity , pride , ambition , and an ill and false opinion of god , which satan suggested into his heart , did willingly yeeld to the temptation , and transgressed gods commandement , and as a voluntary agent did work with the devill in that act of disobedience , therefore hee is guilty : yet so as that his sin is pardonable , and both he himselfe and all his elect and faithfull posterity are redeemed from it by christ . quest . how comes it to passe , that so small a thing as that wherein adam transgressed , to wit , eating of a forbidden fruit is counted so great a sin before god , and brings on all man-kind so many evils and curses ? answ. the smaller the thing was in which god required obedience of adam , the greater was his sin , and the more blame he deserved ; in that having received so many gifts from god , and such large dominion over all earthly creatures by the free gift of god ; he would not upon gods just command which was so easie to bee observed , obey his creator in absteining but onely from one tree ▪ besides hee disobeyed god out of infidelity , pride , ambition , a false opinion of god , and enmity against his majesty . for hee beleeved the devils words , who said hee should not dye , and not gods word , who had said that in the day hee did eate hee should surely dye . hee in pride and ambition sought by eating to become as god ; and imagined wickedly , that god out of envie did forbid him to eate , of purpose that hee might not become wise as himselfe : so that this disobedience in so small a matter did include in it all kindes of sinnes , whereby the whole law of god is transgressed . quest . you have well shewed that this act of disobedience was an heinous sin . now tell me what evils it brought upon man-kind ? answ. first , it stript man naked of all those perfections of nature , and all that uprightnesse and image of god , in which hee was created ; so that his person , which before for the beauty , majesty , and comelinesse of it was reverenced , loved , and served of all creatures , came to be feared and abhorred of them , as an enemy , his nakednesse made him ashamed , and his paines and sorrows made his life a burden to him . secondly , mans nature and frame , was so stained and corrupted by this sin , that neither he nor any of his posterity can understand things aright , nor will , nor do any good ; but are altogether perverse & froward , prone to all wickednesse , very slaves of sinne and satan , and by nature children of wrath . thirdly , it brought a curse upon the ground for mans sake , so that without his hard labour and sweet it yeelds no good fruit , but only thornes , thistles & other noysom weeds & plants . lastly , it brought all mankind in bondage to death , both temporal ( wch is such a corruption of the body , as doth separat the soule frō it & make it utterly unfit for the soule to lodge in ) and also eternall , which is the punishment of him with eternall destruction from the presence of god , and from the glory of his power . quest . is there any hope of deliverance , from this foule staine , & guilt of sins , and from death , and all evill of wrath , which are the fruits and effects of it ? answ. there is no hope of deliverance in any thing which mans wit and reason can devise , or man by his art , skil , and power can performe . all creatures in the world can yield him no help . god only of his infinit mercy , free grace , love and kindnesse to man-kind hath from all eternity , ordeined an all-sufficient saviour , and redeemer , even his only begotten son , who immediatly after mans sin and fall , did undertake for man , staid the execution of the sentence and punishment of death , and was promised to become the seed of the woman , and by suffering death and all the punishments due to sin in our nature , to redeeme man-kind from sin , and death , and to destroy the devill , who had the power of death , and to dissolve all his workes . quest . who is this son of god , which did undertake to redeeme man ? answ. it is the lord iesus christ , who was first promised under the name of the seed of the woman , gen. 3. 15. which should break the serpents head , and afterward was promised to abraham , isaac , and jacob , under the name of the blessed seed , in whom all the nations of the earth should be blessed . and to david , and by the prophets , by the name of messiah , that is the annoynted saviour of the seed of david . and at last in the fulnesse of the time , when hee was made flesh , tooke our nature upon him , and was borne of a virgin , did beare the name of iesus ; and is now preached and made knowne to the world , under the name of the lord iesus christ . quest . why did not christ come in the flesh in the beginning or first age of the world , and worke mans redemption , that the fathers who lived under the old testament ▪ might bee redeemed and saved by him , as we now are under the gospell ? answ. the incarnation of christ , and all things which he did and suffered for our redemption in the dayes of his flesh , were present with god from all eternity , ( as all times , and all things which come to passe in all times past , present and to come , are continually present with him ) and were as effectuall to satisfie his justice , appease his wrath , and to purchase and procure perfect salvation to men at his hands ; as they are now ever since they were actually performed . and through christ promised , god did shed his spirit on the fathers of old , as hee now doth on us through christ given and exhibited , and by the spirit united them to him in one spirituall body , and wrought in them faith , by which they did ( as it said of abraham ) see the day of christ beleeve in him , were partakers of all his benefits , and were made conformable to him both in his death and life by mortification and sanctification . quest . why did christ come and satisfie for sinfull men , in the mids of yeares between the times of the old and new testament ? answ. because that was the most fit and seasonable of all times for man-kind for divers reasons . first , if he had appeared in the first ages of the world , the memory of him would have been worne out . for as the people of the gentiles within a few ages forgot the promises of christ made to adam , noah and sem , and lost the knowledge of them : so men would have forgotten christ , and all his doings , and sufferings long ago ; for the world loveth changes , and loathing old things , seeketh after novelties . secondly , the deferring of christs comming held the world in suspence and expectation with promises from age to age , still more plainely renued ; that after much longing his comming might be so much more welcome , and men might with greater joy receive him . thirdly , the world increasing in sin and corruption , and being growne so hard , that weaker meanes and obscurer revelation could worke litle upon men ; it was gods wisdome to reserve the appearance of christ , and the publishing of the powerfull gospell for these latter evill days , as being the fittest meanes for these harder times . fourthly , if christ in our nature had made satisfaction in the first ages of the world , and had paid our ransome so many ages before wee were borne or had our being ; it had not been so equall and proportionable to justice , as now it is , by reason of his comming in the midst of yeares , between the old and the new testament . for by this meanes gods forbearance of the ransome and satisfaction for the sinnes of the fathers before christs death , is recompensed with payment of our debt , and making a full satisfaction for our sinnes as much before hand , even many ages before our committing of sinne , or running in debt to his majesty in our own persons . lastly , it was necessary that many of the members of his elect and faithfull church should by the spirit bee united to him , and by faith have communion with him before and at his comming & appearing in the flesh , that being the head of the church actually through them , he might by cōmunion and imputation of the sins of so great a body & multitude , justly suffer the punishments due to the sins of his people even of them who were in after ages to grow up into the same mystical body by the same spirit . if he had beene borne in the beginning of the world , before the church of the old testament had any actuall being , he could not have been the actuall head of the body , nor united to the church , which as yet was not in being , and so could not have borne the sins of his church , nor justly suffered the punishment of them . therefore the apostle very fitly cals the time of christs comming in the flesh the fulnesse of time , that is , the time most seasonable , gal. 4 ▪ 4. quest . what have you learned concerning christs person needfull to be knowne and beleeved ? answ. i have learned , that as he was the eternall son of god , one and the same god , and of the same nature and substance with the father , and the spirit , hee did undertake , according to gods eternall counsell to bee the mediator between god and man , and to mediate for man from the day of his fall ; and as hee was promised to bee the seed of the woman , so hee did in fulnesse of time assume and take into personall union with himselfe , the whole nature , and substance of a man , and was made of the seed of abraham and david in the womb of a virgin , of their seed , a man like unto us in all things , but without sin , even the holy one of god , and so was god and man in one person . quest . how could hee bee borne a pure holy man without sinne , of a woman , a daughter of evah , and of the same nature with the rest of man-kind , who are all corrupted in adam ? answ. god almighty , who alone is able to bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane , did by his power over-shadow the virgin his mother , and the holy ghost came upon her , and framed out of her seed and substance an holy seed , and so hee was conceived and borne without sinne , perfectly holy both in soule and body , and filled with the holy ghost . quest . how could he being so perfectly holy , be subject to infirmities , and to death , and other punishments due to sin ? answ ▪ though he knew no sin , yet he was made sin for us , 2 cor. 5. 21. and being most holy and righteous in himselfe , he tooke all our sins upon him , and bare all our sorrows and infirmities , that he might thereby satisfie gods infinit justice , pay our ransome , and redeeme and reconcile us unto god , isa. 53. 4 , 6. quest . how and by what meanes hath christ redeemed us from wrath , and wrought our salvation ? answ. by executing and performing the office of a mediator between god and men . quest . how is he a mediator ? answ. as he is god the son , equall with the father , so he is a person of infinite value , and worthy to be accepted , and able to make a full satisfaction for all sin to gods iustice , and to pay a ransome of infinit value . and as hee is man of the same nature and substance with all man-kind , and the first fruits of the whole lumpe ; so hee is fit to make satisfaction in the same nature which sinned , and is our brother and friend , and one who is touched with the feeling of our infirmities , and is compassionate towards us , and deales faithfully for us . as he is god , so he is too high to be a mediator for man , and as he is man , so hee is too low to mediate and plead to god for us sinners : but as he is god and man in one person , so he is most fit to come as a mediatour betweene god and men . quest . wherein doth christs mediation consist ? answ. in the faithful execution of a threefold office : the first , of a prophet . the second , of a priest . the third , of a king . quest . how did he execute the office of a prophet ? answ. by prophecying , preaching , and revealing the will of god from the beginning , both in his own person , and also by his prophets , apostles and ministers of the word and gospell . in the old world he went forth in the spirit , and soake to the godly fathers , enoch , methushelah , noah and others , and by them preached to the wicked , especially while the arke was a preparing , as the apostle testifieth ▪ 1 pet. 3. 19. he in the forme of man , and sometimes of an angell spake to abraham , isaac and jacob , gen. 18. 26. & 32 ▪ 24. hee was the angell of the covenant , which appeared to moses in the bush , and said , i am the god of abraham , the god of isaac , and the god of jacob , exod. 3. hee spake also at sundry times , and in divers manners , as apparitions , dreames and visions to the fathers in times past , and by his spirit inspiring and moving the prophets , heb. 1. 1. and in the dayes of his flesh he preached the gospell with his own mouth . and as after his ascension , he sent down the holy ghost upon his apostles , and gave them the gifts of tongues , and of knowledge to prophecy and preach the gospell to all nations , act. 2. so he is with them in their true successors the ministers of the gospell to the end of the world , mat. 28. 20. and by his spirit gives them knowledge and utterance , to teach and expound the scriptures , and to bring men to the saving knowledge of the truth . and in a word he is the great prophet whom god promised to raise up to his people , like unto moses , whom all ought to heare and obey in all things , deut. 18. 15. and no other prophets or preachers , are to be heard , but those which preach in his name , truly according to his word conteined in the holy scriptures . quest . wherein doth the office of his priesthood consist ? answ. in making attonement betweene god and men , both by offering up himselfe , and all sufficient sacrifice for all our sins , in his obedience unto death , and in suffering all punishments due to sin , and by bringing in eternall righteousnes , which is his perfect fulfilling of the law in the obedience of his whole life , dan. 9. 24. rom. 8. 3 , 4. & 1 cor. 5. 21. for in these two consists the whole work of mans redemption , and the full ransome and sacrifice of attonement which is needfull to reconcile men unto god . quest . how can the sufferings of one man satisfie for all men , and the righteousnesse of one be able to justifie all that are to bee justified ? answ. the man christ as hee fulfilled the law , and suffered in our nature , so his righteousnesse and satisfaction is humane , and is proper only to mankind , for as man sinned , so man satisfied ▪ but as this man christ , is also god in the same person : so his righteousnes and satisfaction is divine of infinite value and worth , even the righteousnesse and suffering of god ; and that is more than if all men had suffered eternall death , and fulfilled in their own persons every jot and title of the law , and all the righteousnesse thereof . quest . if christs infinite godhead doth adde so much to his obedience performed in our nature , and makes his sufferings of infinite worth and value : what need was there of shedding his bloud unto death , and of suffering all the stormes of gods wrath , was not ( as some say ) one drop of his bloud sufficient to redeeme the world ? answ. though christ is a person of infinite value , because he is god ; yet as he could not be a compleat and perfect mediator , if hee had taken into his person the body only of a man , and not a complete manhood consisting both of soule and body : so suffering in part , and obeying the law in part , could not bee made a complete satisfaction , for justice requires a full suffering of all kinds of punishment due to man for sin , even of death it selfe , and a perfect fulfilling of the whole law ; otherwise there is no righteousnesse : if one drop of christs bloud shed for sin had beene a sufficient price of redemption : than it had been injustice in god to exact more , and undiscreet , and vaine prodigality in christ to poure out all his bloud , and his soule to death , when one drop was enough . quest . is this all that christ doth as a priest ? answ. this is all that christ did in paying mans ransome and price of attonement , but to make men partakers of it , and of the benefit thereof , he doth make intercession to god for them , as appeares , rom. 8. 34. and heb. 7. 25. quest . how doth christ make intercession ? answ. first , by praying for his elect and faithfull , whom the father had given him out of the world , this he did in the dayes of his humiliation . secondly , by sitting at gods right hand , hee presents continually before god his perfect satisfaction and righteousnesse in the behalf of all his faithfull members , and with his sacrifice and intercession , doth as it were perfume all their prayers , and make them acceptable in the sight of god . quest . doth not christ as well make intercession for all , as hee dyed for all man-kind ? answ. though christ dyed and fulfilled the law for a common benefit to all man-kind and his ransome is sufficient to save all ; yet he never purposed to redeeme all men by his death . for hee knew that many were already damned , and past all hope of redemption before he dyed , and that iudas was a son of perdition , and therefore hee did not purpose to give himselfe a ransome for them . besides he himself testifieth that hee did not pray for the world , but only for his elect given to him by his father out of the world , ioh. 17 ▪ 9. therefore he did much lesse dye with an intent purpose and desire to redeeme and save them . quest . how doth christ execute his kingly office ? answ. by ruling spiritually in his church , and giving his spirit and all spirituall gifts to men , by which they are fitted and furnished with severall gifts , for severall offices , and functions , in that his mysticall body . the distribution of all honors , offices , and dignities , as of some to be apostles , some prophets , some evangelists , others pastors and teachers , is in his hand . no man is capable of such honours , and dignities , nor fit for such offices , but by his gifts and qualifications . whosoever thrusts himselfe into the office of a bishop , elder , pastor , or publike preacher without such gifts , and calling , as hee hath in his word prescribed , hee is a thiefe , and an usurper , as our saviour himselfe testifieth , who is the onely doore by which men must enter into his sheep-fold , iohn 10. hee ruleth also in the hearts of all faithfull people by his word and spirit , as by a law , and that law is the rule of their life , and of all their actions . hee also by his power defends his church from all enemies , and takes just revenge on their persecutors and oppressors for all power is given him in heaven and earth , matth. 28. 18. and hee hath all judgment committed to him , iohn 5. 27. all the saints fight under his royall standard against the devill , the world , the flesh , sinne and antichrist , being armed by him with the whole armour of god , eph. 6 11. he will treade down satan under their feet , rom. 16. 20. and by the spirit of his lips will destroy the wicked one , 2 thes. 2. and by his iron rod break in pieces all his enemies , like a potters vessell , psal. 2. so that whatsoever can be required in a king , for the well ordering and ruling of his kingdome , by judgement and righteousnesse ; for the mercifull relieving and he ping of them in their need . for the powerfull defending of them from all dangers , and for the execution of just revenge on their enemies ; all this is abundantly found in christ as he is the lord and king of his church . quest . you have well shewed that christ both in respect of his person and offices , is an all-sufficient redeemer and saviour , and is able by the infinite worth of his mediation to save all men : now then tell me why all men are not saved ? answ. though christ his ransome and satisfaction is able to save and redeeme all that are partakers thereof , even all mankind , if they had grace to receive and apply him and all his merits by faith , yet because none have spirituall communion with him , but only they whom god hath chosen to eternall life in him , and predestinated to be effectually called , according to his purpose , to the state of grace , and to be made conformable to his image : therfore many who are not elect , follow their own evil ways , and have no will nor care to repent of their sins , and beleeve in christ , but run wilfully into destruction and perish . quest . hath god then chosen from all eternity a certeine number only of man-kind to salvation in christ ? answ. yea verily . for the scriptures plainly testifie ▪ first , that god hath a certain number of particular persons , whom hee hath from all eternity predestinated both to eternall life in christ , and also to the meanes which lead unto life , to wit , redemption , effectuall calling , adoption , faith and the like , ephes. 1. 4. 5 , 11. & rom. 11. 5 ▪ 7. & act. 13. 48. secondly , that the persons elected are they only who are called in time , according to his purpose , iustified ▪ made conformable to the image of his son , and at length glorified , rom. 8 ▪ 28 , 29 , 30. thirdly , that they are chosen not for any work which god foresaw in them , but meerely according to the good pleasure of his own will , rom. 9. 11. 15. eph. 1. 5. and fourthly , that all they who continue in obstinacy and impenitency unto the end , and are damned , were of old ordeined to that damnation , & destructiō . 1 thes. 5. 9. 1 pet. 2. 8. jud. 4. quest . if god hath not ordeined men to faith in christ repentance , and good works , but hath willingly rejected them , as he did esau before he had done any evill ; and given them up to hardnesse , and impenitency , as he did pharaoh : why is he angry with them , for none can resist his will ? answ. it is too much presumption in men to dispute against god , and to judge of his actions by their owne shallow reason . for he is not to give account of any of his matters , nor to answer for his doings , iob 33. 13. rom. 9. 19. and yet it is reason that every absolute lord should do what he list with his own , & that as the potter hath power over the clay to make of the same lump one vessell unto honour , and another unto dishonor ; so god much more should have power over his creatures , to ordaine and make some vessels of honor , and leave others to follow their own evil ways which they have found out to themselves , and are not lead into by him , and so to perish ; seeing their evill and destruction by his over-ruling wisdome and power doth turne to the greater good of his elect , and makes the glory of his holinesse , iustice , power and mercy shine forth more clearely to them . quest . doth the benefit of christ the mediator , and redeemer reach only to the elect ? answ. though the saving vertue of christ belongeth only to the elect ; yet there is a common benefit of christ , wherof reprobates are partakers , which reacheth also to all the world . for hee is said to preserve man and beasts , that is , to keep them in life and being , psal. 36 6. and to be the saviour of all , especially of them that beleeve , 1 tim. 4. 10. and to give himselfe a ransome for all , 1 tim. 26. and by him all things are said to consist , coloss. 1. 17. quest . how can christs vertue reach to them who are a far off aliens and strangers from him , and enemies to his crosse and sufferings ? answ. it reacheth to them not immediatly by vertue of union with him , as it doth to the faithfull , but after a secondary manner for his elects sake . for christ by his mediation hath obteined of god , that all the world which was made for mans use , should be upheld by his generall providence , that the heavens , and the sun , moon and stars , should keep their course , and continue in their naturall being , and give light and influence to the good and the bad , the just and unjust , and that the aire , the earth , and the sea , should breed and nourish living creatures , and herbes , plantes , fruit-trees and all other things usefull for men , yea the wicked prosper and flourish in wealth and strength , either that they may be a wall of defence to the elect which live among them , or that they may build houses , plant vineyards , and subdue the earth for them , as the cursed canaanites did for israel ; or that they may be progenitors , and instruments , to bring forth an elect seed , as our fore-fathers the heathen gentiles were to us their christian progeny ; or for the punishing and correcting of the sins of the elect , as the canaanites were kept alive to punish the israelites when they sinned ; and for the tryall and exercise of their faith and patience by unjust persecution . christ by his mediation hath procured all these things for his elects sake , to all creatures , which otherwise should have perished with man being all stained and corrupted by his sin . and hence it is that he is said to beare up the pillars of the world , when the earth and the inhabitants thereof are dissolved , psal. 75 3. and thus farre we may grant and acknowledge an universall grace , which christ by his mediation hath procured to all the world , even to the wicked reprobates which perish . quest ▪ hath not christ procured to all man-kind grace and ability , to beleeve , repent and be saved , if they will do as much as they are able for the obteining of regeneration , and other saving graces of the spirit ? answ. no certeinely , for regeneration , effectuall calling , faith , and all saving graces are purchased and given by christ , only to the elect , for whom alone he prayed , and doth still make intercession : and they also while they remaine in the common state of nature , have no power in themselves , either to will or to do any work truly good , but are dead in trespasses and sins , ephes. 2. 1. they are aliens and enemies in their minds , and all their thoughts incline to evill , colos. 1. 21. if all men , even they who perish , had power and liberty of will , to beleeve and be saved , certeinely some of them who are not elect , would beleeve and be regenerate , and use their liberty to the saving of their soules . for it is given for that end , that it might be brought into act , and take effect ; if it never doth , it is given by god in vaine . but nature , as the philosophers observed , never gives power in vaine , and much more doth the god of nature , abhorre to give men a vaine power which never comes into act . quest . if it be not in their power to do any worke tending to life , nor to beleeve and repent : why are they condemned for infidelity , impenitency , and omission of good works ? answ. though they cannot beleeve nor repent to salvation , yet they have a power left by common grace , to use the meanes which lead to faith , and repentance , as hearing of the word , reading the scriptures , hearkning to reproofes and to good admonitions and exhortations , and this naturall power they refuse to exercise , and wickedly and wilfully neglect and reject those outward meanes . also by their sin in adam ▪ they have disabled themselves , are become froward and averse from all actions truly good , and are a cursed generation justly condemned . quest . how come the elect to bee redeemed , and saved by the mediation of christ ; seeing they by nature have no more interest in christ than others ? answ. they are redeemed and saved by the most gracious supernaturall working of god in them , according to his eternall counsel , purpose and decree . for as he hath ordeined them to eternall life in christ , before the foundation of the world , so it doth in the time appointed , gather them to himselfe , in and by the lord iesus christ . quest . by what meanes doth god worke saving grace in them ? answ. by the ministery and preaching of his holy word , which is a worke of the propheticall office of christ . for by that word spoken to the elect fathers of old , in dremes , visions , and apparitions ; and after spoken and written by moses , the prophets and holy men of god , who spake as they were moved by the holy ghost ; and since by the mouth of christ and his apostles , evangelists and their successors ; hee hath revealed and doth continually reveale himselfe to them in christ , teacheth them the onely right way to salvation , cals upon them , and invites them by gracious promises to come unto him ; and by the threatenings of the law , he drives them out of themselvs , discovers their sins , and the dangerous estate in which they are by reason of sinne , and suffers them to find no place wherein to rest , untill like noahs dove , they flee unto his arke the true church . quest . can the word preached bring men to christ , and to salvation in him ? answ. it is the only outward ordinary meanes which god useth for that purpose , and we never read of any , who without the word beleeved , were called effectually to christ and saved . all heathen , infidels , turks and pagans , who either never heard the word preached , or hearing do refuse and reject it , do undoubtedly perish in their unbeliefe . for he that beleeveth not is condemned already . john 3. 18. and without the word heard none can beleeve , rom. 10. 14. quest . what then shall wee thinke of infants borne of beleeving parents , which dye before they heare , or are able to beleeve the word ? answ : god teacheth and inclineth them inwardly by his spirit to long after christ and to grope after him , as they do after their mothers breasts for milk and bodily nourishment : but yet not without the word . for by the word preached to their fathers , hee workes faith in them , and makes his covenant of life in christ with them and their seed ; and so by the ministery of the word , their infants come to be in the covenant . and god doth often times sanctifie them by his spirit from the wombe ( as we read of jeremy and john the baptist ) or in their baptisme at the prayers of his church . and therefore we ought charitably to beleeve and judge , that children of beleeving parents , as they are from the wombe holy by dedication , 1 cor. 7. 14. and capable of baptisme , so are inwardly baptized by the spirit into christ ; and if they dye in their infancy , are saved by the free grace of god , who worketh all things after the counsell of his own will . quest . how doth the word preached worke saving grace in men ? answ. not barely by it selfe , nor by any divine vertue inherent in it ; but by the free grace of god , and the inward operation of the spirit working with it , when and where , and in whom he will . for the word preached doth not profit , when it s notmingled with faith in them that heare it , heb. 4. 2. as we see in the iewes , to whom christ himselfe preached , and yet they were not turned to god ; but the word by him spoken , through their infidelity turned to their hurt , wrought to the hardening of them in their sins , and left them without all excuse or any cloak for their wickednesse , iohn 15. 22. quest . what are those necessary works and saving graces , which god by his word and spirit worketh in men to bring them to salvation in christ ? answ. they are works and graces , which flow from gods eternall election and are only wrought in the elect . they are necessary , because without them none can be saved , and they are called saving works and graces , because the persons in whom they are once wrought , can never fall away and perish , but shall certeinely persevere in them and be saved : and they all may be brought under two heads . the first are the works , which god alone by his word and spirit worketh in his elect. the second sort , are the works which god so worketh , that they also do cooperat with him , and work together with his spirit . quest . which are the works which god alone by his spirit worketh in the elect ? answ. the first is regeneration , from which all the rest do flow , to wit , renovation , which is called renuing of the holy ghost , tit. 3. 5. effectuall calling , union with christ , adoption and communion of all christs benefits , as of his ransome , satisfaction , righteousnesse and intercession for redemption , remission of sins , justification , and perfect reconciliation . quest . which is the first saving grace ? answ. the first , which is the ground of al the rest , is regeneration . quest . what is regeneration ? answ. it is that worke of god by which he sheds the holy ghost on his elect , through iesus christ , of which spirit given to dwell in them as his immortall seed , they are borne again and become new creatures , and spirituall members of christ , and children of god by a new birth and generation . quest . what is renovation ? answ. it is the work of god , which he by his spirit shed on them , and dwelling in them , doth work in them , renuing them after the image of christ , and making them conformable to him , both in his death , by mortification , and in his life , by vivification . quest . what is mortification ? answ. it is that work of gods spirit wherein hee deriveth the vertue of christs death unto them , and worketh in them such a sense of their misery , sin , and corruption , and such a godly griefe , sorrow , contrition of heart , loathing and abhorring of themselvs , as doth tame their rebellious lusts , and gives a deadly blow to the old man of sinfull corruption in them ; so that sinne can no more reigne in their mortall bodies , but by grace they prevaile more and more over their corruption and do mortifie it continually . quest . what is vivification ? answ. it is that worke of the spirit by which he derives the vertue of christs holy life unto them to quicken them , and sanctifie them by inherit holines , and to make them in the whole course of their life conformable to the holy and upright life of christ . quest . what gifts and graces are wrought in the elect by renovation ? answ. the first which is , as it were , the root of the rest is faith . for as the devill did first breath into adam an unbeleefe , and distrust of god and his truth , so that hee beleeved not the word and threatning of god , but gave credit to satans lyes , and relyed on them , and by his false beliefe , satan drew him on to a false opinion of god , and a conceipt that god envyed his greater good , whereupon hee began proudly to imagine that he might by eating of the forbidden tree become wise as god , and did conceive enmity in his mind against god , ambitious lusts , and evill affections : so god in renuing man doth first worke faith in him , which is the gift of beleeving in god , and relying on his word and promises . and by his word beleeved , he gives light of unde●standing , and knowledge , which drives out errors , and false opinions , and enables man to see his owne vilenesse , and gods goodnesse towards him , whence ariseth the grace of humility and repentance ; also a sincere holy love of god , feare and reverence of his majesty , joy , rejoycing , hope , and delight in god , and a will and desire to obey him in all things , and in a word , all christian vertues , by which a man becomes conformable to christ . quest . what is effectuall calling ! answ. it is the work of the spirit of regeneration , who by giving to the elect a new heart and spirit , doth incline and enable them to follow the outward calling of the word , and to turne from darknesse to light , and from the power of satan unto god , act. 26. 18. quest . what is the vnion of the elect with christ ? answ. it is not a making of their severall persons one undivided essence and substance with the person of christ . for that unity is only in god , and in the three persons of the blessed trinity : neither is it a making of them one person with christ , by such a personal union as is between his godhead , and manhood , and betweene the soule and body of every man : neither is it a bodily uniting of them with christ , by a bodily mixture and composition of the substance of their soules , and bodyes , with the substance of the soule and body of christ , as wine and water are mingled together : for such an union makes the things united inseparable in place one from another ; so that wheresoever christs body is , there they must needs be , and can be in no other proper place who are thus united : neither is this union only in heart and affection . but this is a spirituall , mysticall and substantiall union , in which christ sitting at gods right hand above the heavens , and they dispersed over all the earth , are made one spirituall , and mysticall body , whereof christ is the head and they members , by meanes of the same spirit dwelling and working in them , after the same maner as he dwelleth and worketh in the humane nature of christ from his first conception and framing in the wombe . for by one spirit they are all baptized into one body , whereof christ is the head , and being many members , they make up one body , even as all members in naturall body , though they be many , make up but one body , because they all have but one soule and life , the holy spirit of which they are regenerate , borne againe , and made new creatures is the sure spirituall band of union betweene christ the head , and them the members of the same mysticall body . quest . what is adoption ? answ. it is a necessary consequent of the union of the elect with christ . for christ being the only begotten son of god by eternall generation , as hee is god , and as hee is man by personall union with god the sonne , and by a supernaturall and miraculous generation , and so heire of all things , heb. 1. 2. it must necessarily follow , that whosoever are in him , one body with him , and lead by his spirit , do thereby come under the account of children and heires of god , and of coheires with christ , and so god the father doth esteeme , respect and accoumpt them , & the spirit dwelling in them doth witnesse with their spirit that they are the children of god . rom. 8. 16. quest . what is the communion with christ of all his benefits ? answ. it is a consequent that is a grace necessarily following from union with christ . for whosoever are by one spirit baptized into christ , and made one spirituall body with him , as really and substantially as all members in a mans body , are one naturall body with the head , they must needs have such a spirituall communion of all christs treasures , vertues , and endowents as is the naturall communion which all the members in a mans body have with the head . christs sufferings , satisfaction for sin , righteousnesse , ransome and intercession are theirs , and they have a right and interest in them , and communion of them all . and thus god justifies and makes them fundamentally righteous by christs perfect righteousnesse , frees them from the guilt of all their sins , by his satisfactory sufferings , and accepts them for his redeemed , and reconciled ones through christs intercession , and makes them actually accepted in his beloved christ , eph. 1. 6. quest . what are the works of saving grace , which god so worketh in the elect , that they also being moved by his spirit , do cooperat and worke together with him ? answ. they are the actions of the elect regenerat , exercising by the motion of the spirit those spirituall gifts , and christian vertues , which were given them by renovation or renuing of the holy ghost . quest . which is the first of them ? answ ▪ the first is actuall faith , or beleeving in god and in christ , for as the gift of faith is the first of all spirituall gifts , which by the renuing of the holy ghost , is wrought in the elect regenerate : so the worke of their faith , that is , actuall beleeving is the first of all , which by the motion of the spirit , they performe after they are quickned and raised up to live a spirituall life . quest . why is the work of their faith the first before the acts of knowledge , repentance , love , hope , and the rest ? answ. because faith possesseth the whole heart and soule of man , and informeth after a sort all the powers and faculties thereof : even the understanding , will , and affections . it is the opening of the understanding to take notice of gods goodnesse , and of the truth of his word . it is the inclining of the will , to give assent to the whole word of god and all truth therein revealed , and to acknowledge all gods truth , goodnesse , and mercy in christ . it is the rectifying of the affections , and the plyablenesse of them to trust in god , to rely on him , to hope in his mercy ; to love , feare , and reverence him , and to hate all offence of his holy majesty , to sorrow for sin with godly sorrow to repentance , to rejoyce and delight in the things of god , and to bee zealous of good works , and resolve to serve , honour , and obey god in a constant course of life . this saving faith sets a work all other graces , and therefore all works of true godlinesse , holinesse , and righteousnesse performed by the elect regenerate , and sanctified , are called fruits of faith , by which their faith is openly shewed , and made knowne as a tree by the fruits of it . quest . which is the proper work of true saving faith ? answ : the proper work of it by which all other graces are set a work is a firme , and stedfast beleeving with the whole heart , of the word of god , and all things therein revealed , which concerne their salvation by christ , that is , both eternall life in the fruition of god , and the way to it . quest . what difference is there betweene this beleeving and that which is in devils , and in carnall hypocrites who beleeve these things , or at least many of them at some times ? answ. there is as great difference between them , as between light and darknesse . the beleeving of the elect regenerat proceeds from a supernaturall cause , and from a divine and holyroot , even the spirit of god dwelling in them , as gods immortall seed , and sanctifying them , and therefore it is holy , firme , and stedfast , and reacheth beyond all hope , sense and reason . but that of the devils and carnall hypocrites , proceeds from their own naturall reason , convinced by sense , experience and plaine arguments , or by a common illumination of the spirit , shining from without into the hearts of hypocrites , and temporary beleevers , as we read of simon magus , act. 8. 13. and the hypocriticall iews who beleeved in christs name , when they saw his miracles , john 2. 23. and therefore their beleeving is carnall temporary and vanishing , and goeth no further than sense and naturall reason do lead . the beleeving of the elect is the subsisting of things hoped for , and the evidence of things not seen , heb. 11. 1. that is , they have the things which they beleeve , as certainly as they beleeve that they have them and hope for them , and their beleeving is a cleare evidence to them of their being in christ , and of their communion with him in grace , and of their portion in heaven , which things are not seene with carnall eyes of sense or reason . for the spirit which works this beleefe , hath united them to christ , and made christ and all his benefits theirs already , so that their beleeving is infallible and cannot deceive them . but devils , carnall men , and hypocrites cannot reach so far as to beleeve their own particular salvation in christ , or their having of things thereto belonging : and if any of them do at any time , mich. 3. 11. it is but a false and vanishing beliefe . in a word whosoever doth by a true saving faith , beleeve historically the word of god , and the truth therein conteined , he hath withall an affiance in god , and grace to beleeve by all other acts of faith , even to apply to himselfe all gods promise by beleeving steadfastly that they belong to himself in particular . for as the spirit wch works this faith is the fountain of all grace , and unites the beleevers to christ , & makes him & all his benefits theirs . so this faith necessarily produceth all acts of beleeving in them , and makes them able by beleeving , to apply to themselvs & to enjoy all blessings , which are to be found in christ . quest . what benefits do the elect receive by their actuall beliefe , and exercise of their saving faith ? answ. they receive hereby , first a comfortable sense , feeling and fruition of their regeneration , renovation , effectuall calling , union , adoption , remission of sins , justification , reconciliation , and in a word communion of all christs benefits , and hence it is , that they are said by faith to turne to god to be united to christ adopted , justified , and to obtaine remission of all their sins , that is , in their own sense , and feeling . and secondly , by this actuall beleeving , and by the sense and feeling , which it brings to the beleevers , all other graces are set a worke , and more and more increased in them . quest . how doth beleeving give to the elect a feeling of their regeneration , renovation , effectuall calling union , adoption , and other saving works of god in them ? answ. first , as it is a fruit and work of the spirit of regeneration and adoption , which hee never workes in any but them who are regenerate , made new creatures effectually called , united to christ , adopted and have communion of all his benefits : so it is a cleare evidence to them of those graces in themselves , and by it the spirit witnesseth with their spirits , that they are the children of god by regeneration and adoption , and are effectually cald and engraffed into christ , become new creatures , heires of god and coheires with christ . secondly , the act of beleeving by a true saving faith is an applying of the things beleeved to themselvs , and by beleeving that they are regenerat , renued , effectually cald , united , adopted and have cōmunion of christs perfect satisfaction , intercession and righteousnesse , they possesse and injoy all those graces , and are in their own sense fully reconciled to god . quest . how are they justified and have their sins pardoned by faith ? answ. they are justified and have their sins remitted by faith , not as by an instrumentall cause and meanes to make them righteous before god ; but as by the hand of the soule , receiving and applying to themselves the righteousnesse of christ to make them righteous in their own sense and feeling . and their actuall beleeving that they are justified and pardoned , is neither their righteousnesse , nor the satisfaction for their sins , nor any thing which in it selfe properly is accepted of god or reputed for righteousnesse and satisfaction , but is only the applying of christs righteousnes and satisfaction to themselves , and an assuring of themselves , that by communion thereof they are justified . and by this beleeving they possesse and sweetly enjoy them , and are in their owne sense and feeling , justified and absolved from the guilt of al their sins , and obteine this testimony from god that they are righteous , rom. 4. 3. quest . can any man bee justified before hee doth actually beleeve ? answ. if we take justification in the first most proper and principall sense , as it is the act of god alone , communicating christs righteousnesse and satisfaction to his elect , when hee doth first unite them to christ by his spirit , and make christ theirs with all his treasures : then it must bee granted that men may be and are justified , before and without any expresse act of beleeving : as for example , elect infants which dye in their infancy , when they are regenerated and united to christ by his spirit , they have communion of his righteousnesse , and are justified and made righteous , and all their sins are abolished and blotted out , and yet they do not actually beleeve , nor performe any explicit and expresse act of faith . also they who are not effectually called to the state of grace , and to communion with christ till they come to yeares of discretion , though they have the gift of faith immediatly at the same time infused into them : yet christs righteousnesse is in order of nature communicated to them and they are made righteous by it before god , before they do actually beleeve , or can truly beleeve that christ is made to them righteousnesse , or can by beleeving possesse and enjoy his righteousnesse for justification . as a child may bee borne , or made an heire to lands , honor and riches , and may have a true right and interest in them , and bee lord of all , before hee hath wit to know his own estate , or discretion to possesse actually and use them : so men may be justified by christs righteousnesse madetheirs , in the first instant of their regeneration and spirituall union with christ , before they do actually beleeve , and sensibly possesse , and enjoy christ and his obedience for justification . but if we take justification in a secondary sense , as it is an act wherein the elect themselves do cooperat and work together with god , by receiving and applying to themselves particularly the gift of righteousnesse freely given unto them , and by possessing and enjoying it ; then must actuall beleeving go before it as the instrumentall cause , by which god justifieth them in their own sense and feeling , and upon which he doth esteeme and account them righteous in the intercourse betweene him and them , and gives them his warrant to esteeme themselves justified with him . but if we take justification in a iudiciary sense , as it is used in courts of iustice and iudgement , for proving , declaring and pronouncing men righteous : then not only faith and actuall beleeving , but also repentance , amendment of life , and all holy christian duties , and good works of piety , mercy and charity must necessarily go before as evidences , testimonies , and proofes by which men must be justified , that is judged declared and pronounced righteous . first , in the court of their owne conscience , so often as sin and satan stand up against them to accuse them . secondly , in the common judgement of men . thirdly , in the generall judgement at the last day . of the first , iustification , the apostle speakes , rom. 5. 19. where he saith that by the obedience of christ many are made righteous , and rom. 8. 4. and 1 cor. 5. 21. of the second he speakes , rom. 3. 28. and 4. 3. and gal. 3. 8. where he saith , we are justified by saith without workes or deedes of the law . of the third saint james speakes , where he saith , that abraham was justified by works , jam. 2. 21. and job 13. 18. where he saith , behold now i have ordered my cause , i know that i shall be justified , and this s. paul cals justification of life , rom. 5. 18. because it is an adjudging of men to eternall life , according to the evidence of their works , as our saviour sheweth , mat. 24. 35. quest . how doth justifying faith differ from that which they call historicall faith ? answ. they both in the elect are one and the same faith , and differ onely as severall acts of the same faith exercised about severall objects . for when they beleeve the history of the scripture , and that those things are true which they heare , or read out of gods word , this is called historicall faith . but when they beleeve firmely and confidently , that the promises of god in christ belong to them , and that christ , with his righteousnes is given to them of god , & made theirs , this beleeving & applying of christs righteousnes to themselves is the justifying act of faith . and whereas the historicall saith of devils and carnall men , is only an assent unto the word of god , that it is true , arising from carnal reason , and arguments convincing the judgement without any affection to the truth , or any relying on it . on the contrary every act of beleeving any word or promise of god ; if it proceeds from a true faith in the elect , is not a naked assent ruled by humane and naturall reason , but guided by gods spirit , and joyned with a relying on god , and his word , upon the divine authority of the speaker , and may be brought as an evidence of their salvation , & may in that respect be called a saving beliefe , as we see at large , heb. 11. where beleeving that the worlds were framed by the word of god . and that god would bring a flood upon the world and destroy all except them that were in the arke made by his appointment ; and that he would give the land of canaan to the seed of abraham the israelites , and after 400 yeares deliver them out of aegypt , and such like acts of beleeving , proceeding from an holy spirituall faith , are declared to bee saving faith . quest . how doth actuall beleeving set a work all other graces , and increase them more and more in the elect regenerate , and justified ? answ. by the sense , feeling , and sweet fruition of christ and his righteousnesse , satisfaction , and intercession , it brings us to the sight and experimentall knowledge of the goodnesse , bounty , love and mercy of god to us in christ . and being justified by faith , we have peace with god through our lord iesus christ , and rejoyce in hope of the glory of god , and hereby the holy ghost sheddeth the love of god abroad in our hearts , so that being inflamed with the love of god , wee begin more and more to hate and abhorre our owne vile corruptions and sins , which are offensive to his holy majesty : we are ashamed and confounded , because we have by our sins so often provoked so gracious a god , and mercifull father , wee grieve and mourne and sorrow with godly sorrow to repentance , wee strive and wrastle against our lusts , and by the assistance of the spirit , tame and subdue them ; so that sinne can no more reigne in our mortall bodies , we contend to sollow hard after god , to cleave to him in love , and to bee still more & more united to christ in love and zealous affection of heart : and in holinesse and newnesse of life we study and strive to be conformable to his image ; and in a word we are stirred up to use all care and endeavour , that wee may abound in all good works , and still forgetting those things which are behind , may reach forth unto those things which are before and presse hard towards the marke for the price of the high calling of god in christ iesus : in all which workes of saving grace , as god moves us by his spirit , so we being moved , enabled , and made a free people , do cooperate and work together with him , till we come to the measure of the age of the fulnesse of christ , and be fitted to see god in glory . quest . what outward meanes are to bee used whereby the spirit of god may worke in the elect , and beget and increase faith and beliefe with all other saving graces in them ? answ. the chiefe outward meanes is the word of god , without which god doth not ordinarily shed his spirit on them , beget them again and by his spirit work saving grace , and the works of grace in them . for they are borne again of incorruptible seed , that is , of the spirit by the word of god , 1 pet. 1. 23. and regeneration which is gods shedding of the holy ghost on them , through christ and the first saving worke , even the ground worke of all other saving graces is not to be found where the word is not preached . by the word of christ the holy gospell only , the spirit speaks inwardly to mens hearts , and leads them into all truth , john 16. 13. by the word preached hee begets faith , for faith commeth by hearing , and none can beleeve except heheare , rom. 10. 14 , 17. the word is the whole and perfect rule of faith , and whatsoever the elect beleeve to salvation , is conteined in the word , and there only to be learned , john 3. 39. the threatenings of the law are the meanes by which the spirit discovers to beleevers the danger of sin , and their own misery , humbles them in their own eies , and drives them out of themselves to christ by repentance . the precepts of the law prescribe to them the right way in which they ought to walk , and is a lamp to their feet , and light to their steps , psa. 119 105. the word of the gospell is the covenant of life , and sets before them the goodnesse , bounty , love and mercy of god in christ , and by it the spirit inflames them with the love of god , with joy and delight in god , and with zeale for his glory , and stirres them up to imitate god in works of mercy , love , and charity , and in all holinesse and sanctification , till they be conformed to christ , and to serve , honour , and worship god . and in a word , the whole scripture , which is the sure , infallible word of god , given by divine inspiration , is profitable for doctrine , for reproofe , for correction , and for instruction in righteousnes , that the man of god may bee perfect thorowly furnished unto all good works , 2 tim. 3. 16. 17. quest . how must the word of god bee used , that it may be such an effectuall meanes of the spirit to worke all these gracious effects in gods elect people ? answ. it must not only be read out of the sacred scriptures , in which it is recorded by the prophets and apostles ; but also preached , and expounded by godly , able and learned ministers , who are called and sent of god , rom. 10. 15. for they are gods watchmen , who have a charge given to watch for mens soules , ezek. 3. 17. & heb. 13. 17. they are his shepheards and overseers to feed his flock with his word , the bread of life , act. 20. 28. & ezek. 34. & 1 pet. 5. 2. ephes. 4. 11. and by delivering gods message faithfuly , they obteine this honour to themselves to bee called the angels of the lord , mal. 2. 7. and gods ambassadours , 2 cor. 5. 20. and to be spirituall fathers under god , who beget children to god in christ by the gospell , 1 cor. 4. 15. quest . what other meanes are to be used ? answ : none but such as god hath prescribed in his holy word , to wit , the sacraments which are seales annexed to the word , publike prayers , invocation , and worship of god , and also good education , and private prayers , and instruction , and often reading of gods word alone , and in private families . quest . what is a sacrament ? answ. it is a religious action prescribed by god , in which by using outward visible rites consecrated to be signes , seales , pledges , and remembrances of the invisible graces promised and given in christ , the covenant of grace is sealed to his people , their faith confirmed , and all holy graces stirred up , quickened , and increased in them . quest . how many sacraments are now in use under the gospell ? answ. there are but two properly so cald , and ordeined to be seales of the whole covenant of grace : baptisme , and the lords supper . for these two are expresly commanded and commended by our saviour , to the church in the gospell , and to every true member thereof . there are divers other signes , pledges , and remembrances of benefits and blessings past or to come ; but they either do not belong to all christians , as imposition of hands in ordeining pastors and elders , is proper to them who are so ordeined : or els beside their signification , they have other more principall uses , as the weekely sabbath , besides that it is a pledge of the eternall rest in heaven , and a signe that god is our god , who doth sanctifie us . it serves chiefly to be the first fruits of our time , and is to be spent wholly in the worship of god publike and private , preaching and hearing of the word , prayer and other religious exercises , by which god is immediatly served , and our soules edified . so also holy feasts , and dayes which are remembrances of some great blessings , as easter , pentecost , the dayes of christs nativity , passion and ascension , besides their signification have other far more principall use , to wit , the solemne worship , and service of god , such as is used on the sabbath , and therefore they are called holy signes and sacraments improperly , and in a secondary sense . but baptisme and the eucharist serve only for signes , seales and pledges , and have no other notable use . quest . what is the sacrament of baptisme ? answ. it is an outward washing of the body with pure water , applyed therto by dipping or sprinkling , ordeined by god to be a sacrament , that is , a signe , seale and pledge of regeneration to the party baptized , by which outward rite , hee is received into the true visible church , and dedicated to christ , to bee a member of his body , and a faithfull servant of god all the dayes of his life . quest . to whom doth this sacrament belong ? answ. it belongs to all that are either borne in the church of god , or by the word preached are called to beleeve in christ , and to professe true christian religion , after they are come to yeares of discretion . quest . what warrant have gods ministers to baptize infants , and to give them the signe , seals , and pledge of regeneration , which a great number of them , that are borne in the church never have , but are reprobates and shew themselves so to be , by living in sin all their dayes , and dying in impenitency ? answ. they have sufficient warrant in the word of god . for the apostle saith , that children of beleeving parents are not uncleane but holy , 1 cor. 7. 14. that is , they are so far within the covenant ( being in their infancy , as it were members of their beleeving parents and wholy at their disposing ) that they may justly bee dedicated to god by baptisme , ( as samuel was by his mothers vow ) and received into the true church . the vow which their parents and guardians made for them in baptisme , is a band to tye them to serve god so soon as they begin to have knowledge and discretion . certeinly gods grace and bounty towards infants of christian parents under the gospell , is not straitened more than to infants in the old testament , whose males were circumcised the eight day after their birth . baptisme , and the promise and vow therein ma●e for them is as powerfull a meanes and motive to provoke them from their youth to serve god , as circumcision was to the children of israel . also christ hath taught us that his blessing & the kingdom of eaven belongs to them , marc. 10. 13. and the apostles baptized whole housholds of beleeving men and women , not refusing any children , as we read of lydias and the iaylors houshold , acts 16. 15. 33. in a word , many who were at full age called by the gospel preached to beleeve by a temporary carnall saith , and to professe christ , were never truly regenerate , as judas , simon magus , demas , and others , but proved hypocrites and backsliding reprobates ; and yet this was never counted a just cause to hinder or restraine the apostles from baptizing al who professed christ outwardly , for feare of prophaning the sacrament of baptisme , and abusing the holy ordinance of christ . quest . how doth the spirit of god by baptisme increase grace in men , and set it a worke ? answ. so often as they are put in minde of their baptisme , either by the name of christians or their owne proper names given in baptisme , when they are called by them , or by seeing others baptized ; the spirit of god doth thereby as by a sure pledge assure the faithfull that god is their father , and they are his children in his son christ , borne againe of the spirit , and so confirmes their faith in that communion which they have with god the father and his son iesus christ ; hereby he stirs them up to remember , that their endeavour ought to be to walke in newnesse of life , as new creatures , adopted to god , called unto christ out of the world mortified and dead to the world , and sinfull lusts , and sanctified to lead a godly life in all righteousnesse and true holynesse . quest . what is the sacrament of the lords supper ? answ. it is that holy ordinance instituted by christ after his last supper , in which by bread and wine consecrated , with blessing and giving of thankes , and by the publike minister given and distributed ; and received , eaten and drunk , by the people assembled , christ god and man their redeemer , together with all his obedience and full satisfaction , made and performed in the dayes of his humiliation , in the forme of fraile flesh and bloud , is signified and sealed to them and in greater measure given , and of them received by faith , as a spirituall nourishment to feed their soules to life eternall . quest . is christ given to all , and received of all who partake of this sacrament ? answ. he is sacramentally given , that is , the true signes and pledges , of him , are given to all , and of them received ; but he is not spiritually given to any but true beleevers , and worthy receivers ; neither do any effectually receive him or his benefits to the feeding of their soules , but only they who lay hold on him by a lively working faith . for the giving , receiving , eating , drinking , is not carnall , but spirituall , as our saviour himselfe sheweth , john 6. 63. saying , it is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing , the words that i speake they are spirit , and they are life . quest . why doth christ call the bread given and eaten , his body , and the wine his bloud , if hee be not in them bodily present , and his flesh and bloud given and received bodily ? answ. the true reason of his speaking so is to call our thoughts to the remembrance of him in the state of humiliation , and of his infirmities , obedience and sufferings , which in that estate he did undergo in the forme of fraile flesh and bloud for us , and to stirre us up so to apprehend him , and feed on him by faith . for christ did not redeeme us , and pay our ransome by any thing which he did as god before his incarnation , nor by any thing which he doth as man exalted and glorified ; but as hee god and man in the dayes of his flesh , fulfilled the whole law , and suffered all punishments due to mans sin , so hee paid our ransome , brought in eternall righteousnesse , and made full satisfaction to gods iustice , and these are the things which together with himselfe are signified and sealed by bread and wine , and are spiritually given to , and received by the faithfull in this sacrament . quest . how can true beleevers bee said to receive christ and his benefits , seeing they are already united to him , and have communion of them all , and his satisfaction and righteousnesse is made theirs before in their regeneration , when they were first effectually called , and made fit to partake of this sacrament ? answ. the spirit of god by this sacrament rightly administred , doth as by a sure pledge confirme and increase their faith , and set it a worke to lay hold on christ , and to apply him and his righteousnesse , and satisfaction to themselvs more strongly and sensibly , and by this meanes they are more feelingly united to him in love and affection , and have a more sweet communion with him of all his benefits , which doth like a plentifull feast , refresh and feed their soules , strengthen them in all grace , and this is as it were a new and fresh receiving of christ and the benefits of his life and death , more abundantly & in greater measure than they had him before . quest . you have well declared the efficacy of the sacraments , and how the spirit worketh by them . now tell me what the other meanes are , and first what is prayer and invocation both publike and private ? answ. prayer and invocation , if it bee publike , is the speech of the whole congregation , and if it be private of one person or more directed to god , in the name of iesus christ , wherein all needfull blessings and increase of grace , are asked and desired in faith , and hope , that god will give them for christ his sake , in such a measure as he in his wisdome doth know to be fit for every one . quest . how is grace thereby increased ? answ. the spirit of god by stirring our hearts to pray , and by putting fit words in our mouths , or in the mouths of them who are the mouth of the congregation , inflameth our affections , exerciseth our faith , kindleth our desires , and reviveth the sense and feeling of our wants . and by directing us to pray to god in the name of iesus christ , he maketh us implicitely to acknowledge and confesse that god is the author of all blessings , and giver of all grace , and so maketh us to give to him in our prayers all the glory with all humble thankfulnesse . and god who is gracious , rich in mercy , faithfull , and true in his promises , will accept our holy and humble desires , and for christs sake and his own truths sake , grant our requests and give a supply of grace , and an increase of blessings . quest : how doth the publike worship of god increase grace ? answ. the publike worship of god performed outwardly and frequently in the congregation of his people , by holy preaching and reverent hearing of his word , prayses , thankes , singing of psalmes , and reverent gestures and behaviour , according to gods word , is a speciall meanes by the inward operation of the spirit , to kindle and increase devotion in the hearts of all his people . it is their using of his talents , and improving of his graces in them to his glory . and god hath promised that as they get more gaine of grace , mat. 25. 29. so hee will still adde more unto them , and will surely establish them , give them the gift of perseverance and uphold them by his grace unto the end , till they be received to glory and come to eternall life and blessednesse . quest . wherein doth the eternall life and blessednesse of the elect consist ? answ. in the eternall sight , knowledge , and fruition of god in his heavenly glory , ephes. 5. 27. for when christ hath fully purged , and sanctified his church and people , and made them fit to see god , then will he present them before his glorious maiesty to dwell in his presence , where is fulnesse of joy and pleasures for evermore , psal. 16. 11. quest . where shall they enjoy this blessednes ? answ. in the heavens where a kingdom is prepared for them , luk. 12. 32. and john 14. 2. an inheritance incorruptible , and undefiled which shall never fade away , 1 pet. 1. 4. which is farre above all that the eye hath seen , or the eare heard , or that ever entered into the heart of man , 1 cor. 2. 9. quest . when shall they come to possesse this blessed inheritance ? answ. they have the earnest of it in this life in the state of grace , even the spirit of adoption by which they are sealed up to the day of full redemption , and even here in this life they finde that sweetnesse and communion with god , that though they see him not , yet beleeving they rejoyce with joy unspeakeable and full of glory . but when their soules are loosed out of the prison of the body , then shall their spirit bee made perfect , and they shall in that better part depart hence and be with christ , and reigne in glory , untill the last great day of account , the generall judgement . at which time the lord iesus christ shall descend from heaven , & bring them with him . and he the prince of angels with the commanding voyce of the archangell shall call all the angels of god to attend him , and to gather before him al his elect from the foure winds , from one end of heaven to the other , and by the power of his voyce and the sound of the trumpet of god , shall raise up their dead bodies purged in the grave , from all the degrees of corruption , and brought up in a most glorious forme like unto his own glorious body : which bodies shall not be prevented by the elect and faithfull then alive on earth , but shall bee first raised up and joyned with their glorified soules , before those then living shall be changed , and in a moment in the twinckling of an eye shall they all together be ready to meet the lord in the ayre , whither they shall be caught up , and being set at his right hand shall receive this comfortable sentence , come yee blessed of my father , inherit the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the world , and so they shall bee ever with the lord and raigne with him in glory world without end , 1 thes. 4. 17. & 2 tim , 2. 12. & rev. 22. 5. quest . but what shall become of all wicked reprobates , who were never chosen , nor called to be of this number ? answ. their bodies also shall be raised up to everlasting shame , and joyned with their cursed soules , that as they have sinned in both , so they may in both be punished , dan. 12. 2. they shall also be gathered together like a flock of ill savouring goates by themselves and brought before the judgement seat of christ full sore against their will , with horror , howling and trembling : and tumbling and groveling on the earth as if they would creep into the ground intermingled among the devils and wishing that the rocks and mountaines might fall on them , and the hils cover them , but all in vaine ; luke 23. 30. they shall receive an heavy doome . for the iudge sitting above in the aire , attended with all his glorious angels , & with all his elect saints , caught up to meet him in their glorious bodies , and to sit with him in judgement , shall with a dreadfull voice passe this woful sentence against them , math. 25. 41. depart from me ye● cursed into everlasting fire , prepared for the devill and his angels . and then shal they go into everlasting destruction , and be punished in unquenchahle fire , from the presence of god , and from the glory of his power ; where a gnawing worme which never dyeth , shall torment them world without end , 2 thes. 1. 9. isa. 66. 24. mark . 9. 44. quest . what may wee conceive of the punishment , and torment of the wicked after this judgement ? answ. it far surpasseth all conceipt of mortall man , being such as all the tongues of men and angels are not able to expresse . but this is plaine by scripture , that whatsoever can be conceived , or is named among men as a cause of extreme torment , or a meanes to increase it beyond all measure , that shall be in their damnation & punishment . first , the lord christ whom they have skorned , provoked and perfecuted , both in himselfe and in his members , shall be their iudge , and shall give the sentence against them . and all his saints whom they have mocked , misused , proudly insulted over , despightfully handled , and evill intreated , and put to death , shall sit as assessors with christ in judgement , and with their voyces shall approve and applaud the sentence of condemnation , as the scriptures testifie , mat. 22. 28. & 1 cor. 6. 2. and shall judge the evill angels , v. 3. now for malicious proud skorners full of envy , to be judged and condemned by those who they have most of all others hated , skorned and abused with despight , is worse than a thousand deaths , as experience teacheth . secondly , their torment unto which they shall bee adjudged is said to be in everlasting fire , in that lake of hell burning with fire and brimstone , mat. 25 41. which of all torments that men by sense can discerne , or reason conceive is the greatest and most intollerable , rev. 19. 22. and yet as if that were not enough , our saviour saith , that they shall have a worm inwardly gnawing them which shall never dye , even the worme of devillish malice , rancour and envy , which shall make them fret and rage against the lord christ , and against his saints gnawing their tongues for griefe : for the sight of their glory shall be to them inwardly as great a torment , as the torture of fire and brimstone are outwardly unto them . thirdly , they shall have no light of comfort or refreshing from god , but shall be imprisoned in the dungeon of everlasting darknesse , for the blacknesse of darknes is reserved for them for ever , iude v. 13 which is a thing most horrid to the eyes . also the sound of horror and a dolefull noyse shall fill their eares , even weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth , matth. 13. 42. & 25. 30. luk. 16. 24. and all the world shall not yeeld them a drop of water to coole their tongues when they are tormented in that flame . fourthly , their misery and torment shall bee endlesse , easelesse , and remedilesse , when they have endured it many thousands and millions of yeares and ages , more in number then the stars of heaven , and drops of water in the sea , and sands by the sea shore ; they shall bee as far from any end as they were at the first beginning . now we know that when men suffer any paine or misery , without hope of any end thereof , it is made by this meanes most grievous and intollerable , though in it selfe it be not so great . and therefore the extremity of torment to them who are cut off from all hope of ease or end , must needs exceed all conceipt and utterance , and bee more than can by tongue bee expressed . quest . how can their sins committed in the short time of their life deserve such an endlesse torment in so great extremity ? answ. very well , for first their sinnes being committed against an infinite majesty , and having offended the infinite god , and provoked his infinite wrath , do by the rule of reason and justice deserve an infinite punishment . secondly , as the elect saints , shall in the last resurrection be all filled up to the full with holinesse , and with the image of christ , and shall every one have as much as his vessell can conteine , so that hee can desire no more , even so wicked reprobates after the last judgement shall be transformed into the image of the devill , and filled up with malice and rage against god to the brimme , insomuch that they shall blaspheme and curse god , for tying them in everlasting chaines , that they can doe no more mischiefe , and gnash their teeth with anger against themselves , because they have no more provoked the lord by transcendent wickednesse , so far shall they be from relenting and from remorse and repentance for their sins . and therefore the more and the longer they suffer the torments of hell , the more they deserve to suffer them for ever with increase , if it were possible . that they are past all hope and possibility of repentance , may easily bee proved by that which the scriptures testifie of apostatas and such as sinne against the holy ghost , to wit , that it is impossible to renew them by repentance , heb. 6. 6. and it is a vaine thing to pray for them , 1 iohn 5. 16. for their hearts are hardned to commit all iniquity with greedinesse : and therefore much more the damned in hell being turned into the image of the devill , are past hope of repentance , and must needs be hardened in eternall malice and impenitency to the utmost . quest : is there no difference of glory among the saints in heaven , and of torment among the damned in hell ? answ. the apostle saith , that as one star differeth from another in glory ; so it is in the resurrection of the saints to glory , 1 cor. 15. 41. but though some of the saints are capable of more glory then others , because they have beene more excellent members of christ in the state of grace , and instruments of great good to the church , as appeares , dan. 12. 3. and mat. 19. 28. and some reprobates are more capacious vessels of wrath , as they have more outragiously and despightfully provoked god in the time of their life ; and both these shall bee filled up to the utmost fulnes of their measure , the one sort with glory , the other with shame and wrath , and so they shall have the one more glory , the other more misery : yet hee that hath the least glory , shal have as much as he can conceive or desire , and hee who hath the least torment and misery shall have as much as his vessell can conteine , and as hee is capable of , and can beare . this may be made plain by a familiar similitude . if divers bottles or earthen vessels of divers measures and different capacity beeplunged into the deep sea with open mouths ; every vessell will be filled to the brim , that it cannot conteine one drop more , the least as well as the greatest ; and though the greatest conteines more ; yet the least is as full , as it is , even to the utmost . so it is both in the saints glorified in heaven , and the wicked tormented in hell . though some are like vessels more capacious , and being filled with glory , or with misery , have more than others : yet the least saint is as full as hee can bee of glory , and can desire no more ; and the least among the damned is filled up with torment and with the wrath of god to the utmost , and hath as much as his vessell can hold . the one wants nothing , but hath a fulnesse of glory , to make him , as blessed , as hee can desire , for ever . and the other hath so much torment , as makes him to the utmost extremity miserable : and as there is no possibility of the falling away of the saints from their glory in the least degree . so it is impossible to ease the damned of the least graine of his heavy and intollerable misery ; but gods wrath shall cleave to them for ever , and abide on them to the utmost , world without end . quest . seeing now i have lead you on by questions to the utmost ends both of the godly elect , and wicked reprobates : now tell mee what remaines ? answ. no more but this : that , as god hath set before us life and death ; for the godly , life eternall in the fruition of himselfe in glory ; but for the wicked and ungodly eternall death , misery and torment in hell : so wee by following hard after god by faith in iesus christ , and making his glory , the marke which wee shoote at in the whole course of our lives , and the maine end of all our labours , may bee free from all danger and feare of eternall death in hell , and may obteine the inheritance of heavenly glory , and with christ our head , and all his elect saints , may see god and enjoy all his goodnesse , as our portion for ever , world without end . to this blessed god who hath vouchsafed thus farre to reveale himselfe unto us , and to shew us the right way , by which wee may come to him , bee all glory , honour and praise giuen , and ascribed by us and his whole church , now and for ever . amen . trin-uni deo gloria . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a67085e-180 1 kin. 8. 27 psa. 147 ▪ 5 isa. 46. 10. 1 ioh. 4. 8. phil. 2. 6. heb. 1. 3. ● colo. 1. 17 rom. 9. 18 iam. 1. 13. gen 3. 10 psa. 49. 12 gen. 3. 17. vers. 19. 2 thes. 1. 9. heb. 2. 14. 1 ioh. 4. 8. gen. 12 8. 22. iohn 8. 5● . luk 1. 35. iob 16. 21. heb. 2. 17. & 4. 11. iohn 17. rev. 8. 3. 2 cor. 3. 5. tit. 3. 5 , 6. rom. 5. 19. & 10. 4. rom. 3. 7 : 2 cor. 5. 21. rom. 5. 1. 1 pet. 1. 8. heb. 12. 23. phil. 1. 23. mat. 24. 31 1 thes. 4. 15 , 16. phil. 3. 21 : 1 cor. 15. 52. mat. 25. 33 cretensis: or a briefe answer to an ulcerous treatise, lately published by mr thomas edvvards, intituled gangræna: calculated for the meridian of such passages in the said treatise, which relate to mr. john goodwin; but may without any sensible error indifferently serve for the whole tract. wherein some of the best means for the cure of the said dangerous ulcer, called gangræna, and to prevent the spreading of it to the danger of the precious soules of men, are clearly opened, and effectually applied; / by the said john goodvvin, a well-willer to the saints, in the work and patience of jesus christ. published according to order. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a85389 of text r35707 in the english short title catalog (thomason e328_22). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 145 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 27 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a85389 wing g1161 thomason e328_22 estc r35707 99872425 99872425 159609 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a85389) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 159609) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 53:e328[22]) cretensis: or a briefe answer to an ulcerous treatise, lately published by mr thomas edvvards, intituled gangræna: calculated for the meridian of such passages in the said treatise, which relate to mr. john goodwin; but may without any sensible error indifferently serve for the whole tract. wherein some of the best means for the cure of the said dangerous ulcer, called gangræna, and to prevent the spreading of it to the danger of the precious soules of men, are clearly opened, and effectually applied; / by the said john goodvvin, a well-willer to the saints, in the work and patience of jesus christ. published according to order. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. [2], 50 p. printed by m.s. for henry overton, and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head alley., london, : 1646. a reply to: edward, thomas. gangraena. annotation on thomason copy: "march: 19 1645"; the second 6 in imprint date crossed out. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng edwards, thomas, 1599-1647. -gangraena -early works to 1800. church of england -controversial literature -early works to 1800. puritans -england -early works to 1800. great britain -church history -17th century. a85389 r35707 (thomason e328_22). civilwar no cretensis: or a briefe answer to an ulcerous treatise, lately published by mr thomas edvvards, intituled gangræna:: calculated for the meri goodwin, john 1646 26436 17 55 0 0 0 0 27 c the rate of 27 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-10 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-12 david karczynski sampled and proofread 2007-12 david karczynski text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion cretensis : or a briefe answer to an ulcerous treatise , lately published by mr thomas edvvards , intituled , gangraena : calculated for the meridian of such passages in the said treatise , which relate to mr john goodwin ; but may without any sensible error indifferently serve for the whole tract . wherein some of the best means for the cure of the said dangerous ulcer , called gangraena , and to prevent the spreading of it to the danger of the precious soules of men , are clearly opened , and effectually applied ; by the said john goodvvin , a well-willer to the saints , in the work and patience of jesus christ . the cretians are alwayes liers , evill beasts , &c. this witnesse is true : wherefore rebuke them sharply ( {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , cuttingly ) that they may be sound in the faith , tit. 1. 12 , 13. and i heard a lowd voice saying in heaven , now is come salvation and strength and the kingdome of our god , and the power of his christ ; for the accvser of ovr brethren is cast downe , &c. revel. 12. 10. let not an evill-speaker be established on earth : evill shall hunt the violent man to overthrow him , psal. 140. 11. but they shall proceed no further ; for their folly shall be manifest unto all men , as theirs also was , 2 tim. 3. 9. qui ergo bene mentitur , & absque ullâ verecundiâ , quicquid in buccam venerit , confingit in fratres , magistrum se optimum probat ▪ hieronymus . l. 1. apol. adversus ruffin . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . musaeus . published according to order . london , printed by m. s. for henry overton , and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head alley . 1646. cretensis ; or a briefe ansvver to an ulcerous treatise , lately published by mr thomas edwards , intituled , gangraena . behold ( saith the lord christ to peter ) satan hath desired you , that he may sift you as wheat a . men use to sift wheat more carefully and thoroughly , then other graine . the reason is , because it being the purest and richest of all graine , a little beggery or soyle left in it , is so much the greater eye-sore , whilst it is yet in the heap , or hand ; and besides any mixture of drosse being ground with wheat , is ( for the same reason ) the more offensive in taste , when bread comes to be made of it . so that our saviours meaning in the recited passage is ; that the devill hath a very great desire to obtaine leave from god of sifting the saints thoroughly , i. by libertie of temptation to try them to the uttermost , what may be gotten out of them by way of weakness and corruption ; not indeed to make them the more pure , ( though this be gods designe in the permission ) but to render them the more sinfull and polluted , and to abate and pull downe their high interests both with god and man . the author of the late treatise , knowne by the marke of a gangrene or cancer in the forehead of it , being ( as it seems ) of satans counsell , and partaker of his intentions against the saints , hath diligently swept his floore , and gathered together his siftings , all that drosse and beggery of weaknesses and infirmities , which satan within the compasse of foure yeares ( by his own confession ) was able to sift out of them , and he to come to the knowledge of ; and hath ground , kneaded , and bak't it , and made shew-bread of it , for such of the presbyterian sons of levi , and their retinue , to eat , as are of his own dyet and constitution . but ( doubtlesse ) the man suffers losse in his designe , upon the same terms , and by the same occasion , upon which his grand tutor many times suffers the like also in his ; who , though his subtiltie and industry to promote his kingdome , be very great and formidable , yet is ever and anon befool'd by his malice , which is predominant , and magnifies it selfe above them both . this still importunes him for present action against the saints , and suffers him not to preconsider , whether the winning of the rests , be not like to lose him the race . so ( doubtlesse ) mr edw. being overcome , even to an intoxication , with the sweetnesse of his end , the defamation of his poore innocent helpless brethren , sirnamed ( by himselfe and many others , who of late have acted themselves into a far deeper merit of the name , and that in the worst sense & construction of the word ) independents ; had not his prudentials free , to consider , whether the course which he hath steer'd to drown them in the black sea of infamy and reproofe , be not more like to carry them into the faire havens of honour . for he that chargeth his enemy , whose reputation in every kinde he sets himself to tread and trample under foot , like clay and mire in the streets , onely with such and such crimes ; he doth not so much charge him with these , as acquit and discharge him from all others . there is no reasonable man , but will abate and deduct , and that to a good proportion , from such reckonings and accounts , which are drawne up and given in to him by the hand of envie : much lesse will he judge such accounts short , or defective in particulars . so that whereas mr edw. conceits , that he hath now in his gangraena inform'd the world , how bad and vile these sectaries and independents are ; the truth is , that he hath done this but faintly , and with the extreame hazard of his own reputation ; but he hath justified and acquitted them with an high hand from all other crimes and imputations of any worse resentment or import , then those wherewith he asperseth them ; and consequently , hath represented them unto the world as better and far more deserving , then far the greatest part of his own presbyterian generation . for first , as to matter of practise , look of what crimes or miscarriages soever , he hath with any truth , impeached those men , of his indignation ; i here ( in his own phrase elswhere a ) cast the glove to him , that if he will accept of the challenge , i will produce both as many for number , as foule ( yea far more foule ) for nature , perpetrated and done by a far lesse number of his classique proselytes , then they are , amongst whom he pretends to find so many things of such portentuous demerit . yea and that i will give another manner of account of the realitie and truth of what i bring upon the stage in this kinde , then he hath done , or ever will be able to doe , of a very considerable part of those things , which his gangred pen hath uttered against his sectaries . and secondly , for matter of opinion ; i cast my glove unto him the second time , that i will doe the like . 1. that i will discover and find out as many errors and heresies , and those of every whit as dangerous an import , as those which he pretends ( or at least is able to prove ) to be at this day extant among those who by the authoritie ( or passion rather and precipitancy ) of his pen are voted sectaries , in a far lesser number of his classique party ; onely upon condition , that he shall undertake to perswade those , amongst whom i shall undertake to make this discovery , to answer , and give an account unto me what their judgements are , in all such points and questions , which i shall propose to them . yea whereas he makes such a tragicall outcry , that there should be 180 errors and heresies amongst us , as if he were afraid that he should lose his presbyterian religion in the crowd ; i verily believe ( and not without ground ) that if he would vouchsafe but freely and candidly to declare his minde and judgement , in all such points , as i would tender unto him , and not professe that scepticisme himselfe , which he so much abhorres in others , i could make a discovery of as many ( errors and heresies together i meane ) in himselfe alone . nor doe i judge , that the most orthodox presbyterian under heaven ( no nor independent neither ) erres much beneath the like rate or number of errors and mistakes in matters of religion . and suppose the man were reliev'd with this supposition ( cujus tamen contrarium verum est , as will be attested by many authentique witnesses ) that all the tales he tells to make that crowne of honour to languish and fade , which god hath set upon the heads of those which to him ( it seems ) are heathens and publicans , i meane sectaries and independents , were true ; yet certainly they that scattered them were more innocent then he that gathered them up , especially with so polluted an intention , as to call the world together to see the nakednesse of the saints , and to rejoyce with satan in his victories and triumphs over them . if the man had thought good to have served his god in verse as he hath done in prose , hee might have begun his work with this hexameter , fortunam satanae , & magnos cantabo triumphos . failings through infirmity , are but the footsteps of flesh and bloud : but bloudy insultations over men because of failings , bewray principalities and powers , and more , spirituall wickednesses . doubtlesse , the sinne of cham in discovering the nakednesse of his father unto his brethren , was greater then the sin of his father in being drunk : cursed be canaan , ( saith noah as a prophet ) a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren a . and so the fact of doeg the edomite in informing saul against ahimelech the priest , about what he had done for david b , was by many degrees more stigmaticall then any thing that ahimelech did . the form of those accusations which mr. edwards hath levied against his brethren , is much more inexcusable then the matter of them . nor doe we read that either cham or doeg , though sonnes of much unworthinesse , ever traded with satan for these black commodities , or compassed the earth to and fro by their eves-droppers , agents , or factors , to gather up and furnish themselves with the sinnes or infirmities of the saints ; no nor that they ever took up a report into their lips against any man , upon either the loose or malicious suggestion of others ; but onely related and informed what themselves saw with their own eyes , and that casually and without awaiting the opportunity . whether therefore the man we know , hath not comforted these sonnes of shame by doubling the spirit of their unworthinesse upon himselfe , i leave to the consideration of such men , who have not sacrificed the principles of their ingenuity upon the service of the classique cause . in publishing the failings and miscarriages of persons engaged in the profession of religion , what hath he else done but sowne the world with the seed both of blasphemy against god , contempt of his wayes , and obduration of the hearts of wicked and prophane men ? yea , he hath spread a table for satan with the shame and sorrowes of the saints , and made more joy in hell with the noyse of his gangrene going forth into the world , then that climate hath known for these many generations ; yea , he hath made belzebub himselfe drunk with the bloud of the saints , and reputation of his enemies , and hath lifted him up halfe way towards that heaven from which our saviour long since saw him falling like lightning e. besides , doe not all men know that the composition of the world it selfe , and of all the parts of it , consists ex flore & faece , of what is excellent and what is excrement ? for mr. edwards or any man to judge of independency by the miscarriages , whether in practice or opinion , of some few that ( it 's likely ) are the retrimentitious part of that way , is as if a man should make an estimate of cheapside by the chanell that runs in the midst of it , or give sentence of the holy and elect angels by what is found in sin and wickednesse in the devils . if independency hath its tens , presbytery hath its thousands of the sonnes of belial in her retinue . and if the man will deale fairly in comparing them together , hee must not set the head of the one against the taile of the other , but measure head with head , and taile with taile . all may bee true which the man chargeth upon independency , and yet independency lift up her head in worth and dignity as high above presbytery , quantum lenta solent inter viburna cupressi , as the cedar in lebanon is by the hand of nature advanc'd above the thistle in lebanon . the most accursed hypocrites that ever the earth bare , have been of the profession of christianity , and yet christianity the best of all professions . that wolves are oft found in sheeps cloathing , is so farre from being matter of disparagement unto it , that it rather commends it for the best and most innocent cloathing of all other : nor ought the sheep ( as augustine said long since ) either to lay aside his cloathing , or think the worse of it , because the wolfe sometimes puts it on to deceive by it . the angels of light are not out of love with their shining , because the ministers of satan transform themselves into their likenesse . nay , it is a glorious testimony to the outward deportment of the blessed angels , that the angels of darknesse desire to assume it , when they desire to conceale and hide themselves . the ordinary wisedome of the flesh teacheth men to take of the best to cover the worst withall . but what atonement can be made for the man and his demerit , in case he shall be found to sycophantize , to fill the world with forged cavillations and slanders against the saints ? and a great ( if not the farre greater ) part of what he hath written , bee evidenced to be not of the race or issue of the folly and weaknesse of those that are accused , but of the wisdome of the flesh , and strength of envie in the accuser , and some others , who by the mediation of the same deare interest , are both one flesh and one spirit too with him ? should not the world have cause to feare lest the sun would be ashamed , and the moon abashed at the very sight of such a monster of impiety as this ; and mourn in sackcloth over the deplorable and sad condition of men , that such things should be found with them ? yea , and to interpret the birth of it , as a signe that her dissolution approacheth , and is even at the doores ? i have neither leasure nor opportunity to search to the bottome , or sift to the bran , all that the man storieth , per se and per alios , in his gangrene ; nor doe i hold intelligence with any man to inform my self of his haltings , but i am able of mine owne knowledge to avouch the untruth of some things asserted by him : the untruth of more hath been avouched unto me by others ; and i make little question but that when all his accused ones shall have had time and opportunity to stand forth & plead their innocency , there will be very little truth found remaining in any thing reported by him , except ( haply ) in such things which are transgressions against no law . in the mean while he hath taken a pretty politick course to save the stake of his own repute , and to prevent as much as may be , the through examination of the greatest part of what his gangrene represents by way of disparagement to the independent party , by printing so many letters so full fraught with these commodities , without the names of their authors . for by this means he may put down in ink and paper , and make up letter-wise what he pleaseth , and yet no man be able to say unto him that black is his eye for so doing . if hee will affirm that such or such letters were sent unto him , or came to his hands , and withall refuse to produce the authors , or pretend reasons why hee should not name them ; well may we suspect jugling : but yet the jugler hath a citie of refuge to fly unto to save himselfe out of the hand of a detector . and to me it seems not a little strange , that mr. edwards should keep the names of his informers , who have contributed so liberally towards the same designe with himselfe , under hatches , or within the vaile ; when as he prostitutes his own name with so much confidence ( that i say not impudence ) in the frontispice of his booke . if hee judgeth it honorable in himselfe , to bee taken notice of for commander in chiefe in the classique warres against sectaries and independents ; he had no reason to hide the names of his captains , and those that served in inferior place of command under him in the same service : except he either thinks that they have been too timorous and low-spirited in the action , and in this respect is tender of their reputation , hoping they may quit themselves more like men hereafter , and then he means to bring forth their names with honour ; or else judgeth that his own interest in the glory of the atchievement , will rise the better , and bee the greater and more intire , if no man shall be looked upon , or known by name , that gave assistance to him in the work . or else thirdly , feareth lest the contents of the letters being evicted of forgery and untruth , should reflect dishonor upon the indighters , and so discourage and weaken their hand as to any further service in so laudable a cause . but the truth is , that i cannot attribute so much either to the first of these reasons , or to the second , nor yet to the third ( though this hath most in it ) as to be able to beleeve , that he suppressed his names for any other end , then to suppresse the examination of the truth of the letters . i know , that if i would borrow but a little presbyterian faith , i could with this , without any demurre or consideration at all , beleeve that all that is contained in the letters from the first to the last of them , is pure and simple truth ; and that m. edwards did very vertuously and commendably in sending away the names of the writers into a land of darknesse . but these being no fundamentals , i hope we shall be tolerated without beleeving them with our own faith . one of his apocryphall letters ( p. 66. ) comforts his friend , good mr. edwards ( as he stiles him ) against me , thus : but whatsoever mr. john of colemanstreet sayes , they ( the independents he means ) will be found the fighters against god . i grant , they may be so found in the presbyterian almanack , through a mistake , but in the originall , the ephemerides of heaven , they are called fighters with and for god . except the letter-man means , they will be found fighters against the god of this world , in that militia which hee hath armed against the nation and servants of the god of heaven in it . against this god in his militia , i confesse , they have fought , and ( i doubt not ) will fight still more cordially and more courageably then many anti-independent soules have done . indeed if the independents should turn turks , and betray their principles , and passe over into the tents of high presbytery , they will bee found fighters against god , as well as others . but in the mean season let mr. anonymus and his compeers know , that there is no sect of men in the land , the sonnes of high presbytery and episcopacy onely excepted , that being true to their principles , are capable of fighting against god , at least in that sense , which both gamaliel in the text , and mr. john of colemanstreet in his commentaries intends and prosecutes . nor let any man think that i breath the least aire of disparagement in the face of presbytery , by ranging episcopacy with it : in as much as mr. edwards himselfe , springs an ingagement upon presbytery to persecute the saints under the vaile of suppressing errors , from the laudable practise of her elder sister episcopacy in the same kind . in another letter of the same packet ( or packing rather , ) viz. p. 55. he presents the honorable and grave assembly of parliament ( for to them he dedicates his gangraena , quanta quanta est , from the one end of it to the other ) with such a painted peece of lasciviousnesse and prophanenesse , kissing together , which might probably have found acceptation and thanks , had he presented it to the company of free traders in turnbolstreet , for the beautifying of their hall : but by exhibiting it to those persons of gravity and honour , he hath traduced the modesty of their eyes and eares , and attempts no lesse then to draw them into part and fellowship with himselfe in his own reproach , by seeking to make them patrons of all the filthy , slanderous , and abominable practices of his pen . in the very front and entrance of his dedicatory unto them , he tells them that he presents them with a catalogue , or black bill : hee might have added ( in stead of what hee doth adde ) of the same nature , tendency and import with those , which the black accuser of the brethren was wont long since by his agents to present unto the heathen emperours and powers of this world , against the saints of the most high god . and whereas ( a few lines after ) he professeth that hee much feareth lest the subject matter of his catalogue may prove unto england like the bill of divorce given unto israel ; i professe also that i feare the same feare with him , in part , because a great , if not the farre greatest part , of the subject matter of his catalogue consists of defamatory untruths , forged cavillations , and bloudy insinuations against the servants of god in the land . and such practises as these in a nation , ( unlesse some speedy and effectuall course be taken to prevent them ) portend indeed little lesse then a bill of divorce from heaven to that nation . but for the errors , heresies , blasphemies , and practices of the sectaries of this time , which he makes the subject matter of his catalogue ; by that time , 1o all those tenets which he very erroneously makes errors and heresies , to advance his catalogue ; and 2o all those , which are forged in his own brain , falsly fastened upon others , no man holding or owning them : and 3o , all those , which it may be have fallen from the lips or pen of some one inconsiderable and halfe-distracted person , no man seconding him therein : and 4o all those that hee hath perverted in the setting down : 5o , all those that ( for substance ) are repeated the second , third , and forth time over . 6o , and lastly , all those blasphemies and practises , which without cause or ground of truth he chargeth upon his sectaries ; by that time ( i say ) that all these shall bee struck out of his black bill , the bill will appeare much blacker and fouler then yet ( perhaps ) it doth in the eyes of many , and so resemble the author more to the life : but the formidablenesse of the subject mattrr of his catalogue will be much eased , and the form of it bee found much more formidable then the matter . but i marvaile how mr edw. having ( it seemes ) an authorized power to make errors and heresies at what rate , and of what materialls he pleaseth , and hopes to live upon the trade , could stay his pen at so small a number as 180 ; and did not advance to that angelicall quotient in the apocalyps , which is ten thousand times ten thousand , and thousand thousands . if he had consulted with a book , not many yeares since printed , which maintaines that dangerous heresie of the cosmoselenitae , i. of those that hold there is another world in the moone , and with another , printed within the compasse of his foure yeares , intituled , divinity and philosophy dissected and set out by a mad man , with some few others , that i shall shortly be able to name unto him ; i will undertake , that out of these he shall be able to increase his roll of errors and heresies , from 180 , to 280 , if not to 500 ; and that upon more honest and honourable terms , then now he hath advanc'd it to his own number . and if he pleaseth to repaire unto me before the course of his menstruous or monethly labour comes upon him , i will undertake to inrich his treasurie of errors and heresies , by twentie and ten , out of his own antapologie . for certain i am , that every contradiction affords an error , either on the one hand , or on the other : and if i doe not find twenty and ten , and a better number then so , of birds of that feather in that element , let mr edwards pen plough as many long furrows more upon my back , as it hath done . in the meane time , i must crave leave to say ( or at least to thinke ) that it is a most importune and unsufferable presumption , for a poore , weake thimble-full of dust , that knows not how to range his parts of speech in a sentence , nor to put the nominative case and verb together regularly in english , nor how to frame the structure of a period according to the common rules of reason , grammar , and common sense ; to advance himselfe into a paper throne , and from thence , satis pro imperio & tribunali , pronounce the formidable sentence of error and heresie , against all opinions and judgements of men whatsoever , which will not comport with his understanding ( or fancie rather ) as the standard of all truth . yea and nebuchadnezzar-like , to slay and smite what opinion he pleaseth : what he will to set up , and what he will to pull downe . for i professe ingenuously , that i know not by what other rule or measure , besides his own humour and will , he judgeth of error or heresie . certaine i am , that if he will stand either to the arbitrement of the scriptures , or to the principles of cleare & sound reason , he must discharge and justifie many of those tenets for innocent , yea and well-deserving truths , which now he hath arraigned at the barre of his tribunall for errors & heresies . if his touchstone be , the major vote of his own party , i desire to recommend unto him the conscientious perusall of a passage from the pen of a conscientious and learned man of the same side , ( i hope he will not say , that he is knowne ex professo , to be of another judgement , then what he plainly expresseth in writing ; a base calumny , wherewith to honour himselfe , he dishonoureth calvin , p. 45. ) if dissentions and schismes ( saith musculus a ) arise in the church , they are in fault who stand up to maintaine a false faith , not they who oppose it . nor is it materiall which partie is the more numerous . for the church , neither her selfe judgeth according to the multitude , nor is shee to be judged according to the consent of the greater number , but according to the manifest truth expressed in the scriptures . if the man will but own the verdict of as learned and ingenuous a pen as ever wrote on his side , he must release the better halfe ( i beleeve ) of his prisoners , and instead of an 180 errors and heresies , take his tables and write downe , four-score . secondly , i would know of him , whether this be a regular processe in law , to ask my fellow whether i be a thiefe . if mr edw. thinks that he ought to be reputed , and honoured as a man orthodox , till men of his owne judgement vote him erroneous ; i know no reason he hath , but to measure out the same measure unto others ; and consequently to judge no man or men erroneous or hereticall , untill they be adjudged such by those that concur in opinion with them . as for twenty and ten of those opinions , which he hath impeached of error and heresie , ( and i will not say for how many more ) i doe here cast the glove to whosoever will take it up , to bring them off with the honour of truth , from all that the man hath to lay to their charge . for i evidently see , that he hath dealt with many precious truths of god , as the jews did by christ himselfe , when they numbred him with transgressors . and particularly , for that which he hath arraign'd in the 70th place in his catalogue of errors , viz. that faith in a proper sense is imputed to justification , and not christs righteousnesse ; ( in the sense by me rejected ) i thinke i may with far lesse boasting say , what he saith of his abilities in the church-controversies ; i am ( saith he ) so farre vers'd in these controversies , that i challenge , &c b . so may i say without offence , that i am so far versed in the controversie about the imputation of faith & christs active obedience in justification , that i here challenge all the presbyterians one after another , assembled , or not assembled , in england , scotland , france and ireland , to prove either by the scriptures , or by dint of argument , either that faith is not imputed in a proper sense , or that the active obedience of christ , is in the formalitie of it , imputed in justification . p. 45. he labours to justifie the devill , only to make me appear like unto him ; for in saying , that i deal just by him , as the devil did by christ ; doth he not plainly imply , that the devill did no worse by christ , then i doe by him ? so then if it appeare , that i dealt fairly by him , and did him no wrong , in my citation of his words , then will the devill be found to be mr edwards client , and he the devills advocate , and that by the verdict of his own pen . now then whether i have wrong'd the man the least haire of his head , let the world , and the great judge himselfe of the world , judge . the case is this . in my innocencies triumph , p. 8. i cite these words from his antapologia , p. 169. the power of the magistrate by which he punisheth sinne , doth not subserve to the kingdome of christ the mediator . now to take an occasion of resembling himselfe unto christ ( which he doth more then once in his gangrene a ) and me unto the devill , he chargeth me , that citing the former part of the sentence , i leave out the latter : adding further , that had i but named this latter part , it would have been an evident confutation of me . let any sober and intelligent man , but consider , what that latter part of the sentence is , how incongruous and illcoherent with the former , and he will clearly see , that in omitting it , i rather cast a covering upon his nakednesse , then any way prejudic'd him ; unlesse ( haply ) he counts this a prejudice to him , not to have his nakednesse and weaknesse appeare to the world all over . but the latter part of the sentence he speaks of , the naming whereof would have been so evident a confutation of me , is this ; that he may apply efficaciously {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of the propheticall and priestly office of christ : he doth not affect the inward man and conscience with spirituall punishment . where , first , it is observable , that himself , citing here so much of the latter part of the sentence , as ( it seems ) he would have had me have cited in my innocencies triumph , leaves out the latter part of this latter part it selfe , viz. these words ( distinguished onely by a comma , from the former ) neither is this instituted of god , and sanctified as the means for the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of christ . so that if i have dealt by him as the devill did by christ , meerly by citing the former part of his sentence without the latter , he deales himselfe by himselfe as the devill did by christ , ( which is more unnaturall of the two ) yea he deales by himselfe , with a far more exact conformitie to the patterne he speaks of , the devils dealing by christ , then i , though his charge against me could be justified . for the devill did not leave out the latter part of the sentence which he cited , but onely the last words , or latter part of the latter part of this sentence . for mr edw. in affirming that the devill left out these words , to keep thee in all thy wayes , deales farre worse then the devill did by christ ; for the devill did not lie unto christ , though he tempted him ; but whether mr edw. doth not dash his foot against this stone , in saying the devill left out the words mentioned , let the evangelist speak ; and he brought him to jerusalem , ( saith luke ) and set him on a pinacle of the temple , and said unto him , if thou be the son of god , cast thy selfe down from hence . for it is written , he shall give his angels charge over thee , to keep thee a . so that the devill left out but part of those words which mr edw. chargeth upon him , viz. these , in all thy wayes ; which being the very last words of the sentence , it is mr edw. that hath copied out the devils delinquency to an haire ; dealt just by himselfe , as the devill did by christ , not i. but whereas other authors frequently make use of the figure synecdoche , in putting down a part for the whole ; mr edw. makes much use in his writings of a new figure , which we may call an anti-synecdoche , by putting the whole , yea and sometimes more then the whole for a part . but however , i must give him the testimony of a man impartiall between the devill and the saints ; for though he speakes falsly of these , yet he will not flatter the other with the truth . 2o . i would faine know , in case the former part of his sentence cited by me , be false , whether the addition of the latter would have made it true . if the power of the magistrate by which he punisheth sin , doth not subserve to the kingdome of christ the mediator ( which are the words i cite ) would the naming of the following words , that he may apply efficaciously {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. render or make it subservient thereunto ? therefore i know not how , or wherein i have trespassed either upon the man or his words in the least . if his meaning be , the whole period , former and latter part being taken together , that the power of the magistrate by which he punisheth sin , doth not subserve to the kingdome of christ the mediator , by an efficacious applying of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of the propheticall and priestly office of christ , &c. first , the grammar of the sentence will not beare it . and secondly , if it would , yet such a sense is little better then no sense ; the sentence thus taken , being of the same forme and character of speaking with this : the bread by which mr. edwards lives , doth not subserve to the maintenance of his life , by making his drinke effectuall to quench his thirst . or this : the learning by which mr. edwards confuteth the sectaries , is not subservient to their preferment by giving them houses or lands , or great rewards , &c. if there be sap , savour , or sense in either of these , then may hee have some cause to complain of wrong done unto him , in that the body of that sentence he speaks of , was not produced by me whole and intire , lower parts and upper parts together . but if the period taken together , was of the very selfe-same shape and forme with those , then was it centaure-like ; and then i did him more right then came to his share , in shewing onely the upper parts of it , wherein it was rationall , and like to a man , and concealing the nether parts of it , the discovery whereof makes it appeare like a monster , strange and uncouth to behold . the truth is , that the passage he speaks of , and over which he mourns , finding it without the taile in my citation , though he calls it a sentence , yet a sentence it is none , having neither form , feature , nor any property of a sentence in it . and in this my sentence and censure of it , i refer my selfe to all those that have but their senses exercised in discerning between sensible and senselesse sayings . notwithstanding the man ( in his preface ) is tumultuously importune for an answer to his antapologie , and calls all the speeches that have been given out by the independents cōcerning an answer to it , but meer flourishes and swelling words of vanity ; as if to talke of answering him , were a swelling word of vanity , a word of too much confidence to proceed from the mouth of a mortall man . yea , in the very first page of his preface he vapours at an insufferable rate , powring out contempt upon the poore independents ( whom hee calls dogges , making himselfe or his antapologie the moone ) as if they were not onely not able to answer it , but as if they knew not so much as which way to goe about to answer it : as if they who mean to answer him , had need to be furnished with other manner of parts , learning , knowledge , wisdome , then were any wayes requisite to answer all the seraphicall disputants in the world besides . paul himselfe ( it seems ) with some others , had given out some speeches of his coming to corinth , some while before he came . and because through occasionall diversions his journey was for some considerable time deferred , some in this church that were obnoxious , were puffed up ( it seems ) as if the bitternesse of death had been past , and paul never meant to come amongst them . some ( saith hee ) are puffed up , as though i would not come unto you a . but he cuts the comb of this their confidence in the next words , by acquainting them with his resolution in that behalfe . but ( saith he ) i will come unto you shortly , if the lord will , and will know not the words of them which are puffed up , but their power b . because an answer to his antapologie hath been so much spoken of , and through many interruptions following like the waves of the sea one in the neck of another , hath not yet been brought forth , therfore the man is so far swoln & puffed up with conceit , as if the world were not wide enough to containe him . but the answer which he calls for with so much fiercenesse of importunity , will ere long ( if the lord will ) be with him : and the world shall know , not what the words are , ( for these are big enough , & known unto the world already ) but what the power is ( or weaknesse rather ) of the antapologie . there were some sonnes of belial , and yet sonnes of confidence too , among the jewes , in the dayes of the great provocation of that nation , when the day of that soare judgement of the 70. yeares captivity drew neere , and was even at the doores , who ( it seems ) derided the predictions of the prophets concerning the judgement , and were so confident as to desire and call for that day of the lord , ( under which expression the prophets of the lord were wont to forewarn them of it ) as for a treasure . but what saith the prophet amos to these ? woe be to you that desire the day of the lord : to what end is it for you ? the day of the lord is darknesse , and not light c . i verily beleeve that the answer to mr. edwards antapologie , will not be for his honour : in which respect he hath no great ground to be so restlesse or importunate in calling for it ; or to insult over those , who have told him once and again , that ( if the lord will ) an answer shall be given him . whereas hee talks of his worthy peece being published 18. months since , he supposeth ( it seems ) that men have little or nothing to doe , but to attend the motions of his pen , and to expedite and dispatch him out of hand . indeed if independent ministers had either the priviledge of ease , to preach to the bare walls and pews in their meeting-places , or that shamelesnesse of forehead to make the subject matter of their sermons little else but loose , and lying , and frivolous reports and stories , or virulent invectives against the saints and servants of god , ( with which kind of materiall , this world , and the god of this world together , will be glad to furnish preachers at a very low rate , either of time or study , for their building ) they might ( i confesse ) be men of more expedition in writing , then they are , and be as like the tree spoken of in the revelationa , as mr edw. himselfe . it is sufficiently knowne , that since the 18 moneths mr edwards speaks of , i have given some account unto the world , and that by publique writing , and this more then once , twice , or thrice , ( besides my constant and standing labours with those who have committed themselves unto me in the lord ) that i am not so loose , or idly dispos'd , as mr. edwards would insinuatingly perswade and possesse the world concerning me ( p. 73. ) and knowne also it is , though somewhat more privately , that i had given some further account in the same kind , of my time spent , ( within the said compasse of 18. moneths ) had not the way , by which light and truth should goe forth into the world , been hedg'd up by clergie-classique counsels , as with thornes , against me . but however , i can hardly believe , that mr edwards himselfe , notwithstanding all the advantage of libertie and freedome from other ingagements which he had above other men , tooke much lesse then 18. moneths time , for the building and beautifying his antapologie . and who knows not how much more easie it is , to be first in writing , or to object , then to answer ; according to the common saying in the schooles , plura porest interrogare asinus , quàm respondere aristoteles : i. an asse may soone aske more questions , then aristotle be able to answer ? in the latter part of his preface , he arms himselfe with constancie and heroique resolution , to triumph and rejoyce in what he shall suffer in way of hatred or reproach from the sectaries , for his faithfull and noble service done both to heaven and earth in opposing them ; animating and flattering himselfe in his course , with this , that in case he shall suffer in this kind , he shall ride parallel in the triumphant chariot of honour with those great worthies of the world , calvin , luther , and austine ; yea with the apostle paul himselfe ; nay , with the great lord of all the apostles & patriarchs , the lord christ himselfe , blessed for ever . see the 4 , 5 , and 6 pages of his preface . but poore man ! little doth he consider , how diametrally opposite he is in his cause and course , both to christ and paul ; and how unlike those other men . was either paul or christ , of his occupation ? did they spend their time , or ingage their friends , in gathering up vagrant , loose , scandalous and lying reports against the saints , and servants of god , under the names of sectaries , to blesse the vanitie and wickednesse of the world with the venting of them ? did paul or christ , set their faces like an adamant , to inflame and set on fire the powers of this world , with hatred , bitternesse and bloudinesse of spirit , against the sons and daughters of god , though full of weaknesse , and unworthy in the highest ? or did they importune and clamour upon the secular arme , even to the wearying of it , to avenge them on their adversaries ; and little lesse then threaten those in place and authoritie , if they would not comport with them in their carnall ends and desires , and lift up their iron rod to breake their enemies in pieces like a potters vessell ? this , ( saith christ to the jewes , speaking of their murtherous attempts against him ) this did not abraham a . nor did the lord christ , or his blessed apostle any of the things mentioned : but whether mr. edw. hath done any thing else ( almost ) either in his lion , or in his beare , i mean either in his antapologie , or in his gangrene , especially in this latter , i appeale to the judgements and consciences of all , that either have , or shall please diligently to peruse them , and withall have but their wits and senses free from classique bands . when the lord christ was sollicited by some of his disciples , and that by those whom he loved best , to call for fire from heaven to consume those that would not receive him , he turn'd himself , and rebuked them , telling them that they knew not what spirit they were of . whereas mr. edwards calls and cries , might and maine , for fire from hell to destroy , not those who refuse to receive the lord christ , but such as do receive him with all their hearts , and with all their souls , onely because their faces are not instantly set to receive the traditions of his discipline and doctrine ; and yet conceits that he knows well enough of what spirit he is , making no question for conscience sake , but that it is heavenly . and for paul , we know he burnt ( viz. griefe and sorrow ) when any christian , though never so weake , was but offended : his doctrine and desire was , that supplications , prayers , intercessions , and giving of thanks , be made for all men : for kings and all that are in authoritie , that wee [ christians & believers , of what judgement soever , for he excludes none ] may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie b . but mr. edwards is so far from burning when weake christians are offended , that he is offended , when they burne not . his doctrine , practise , and desire is , that supplications and prayers , intercessions and giving of thanks , be made for , and to , kings and all in authoritie , that christians and believers may either not live at all , or at least be so far from leading quiet and peaceable lives in godlinesse and honestie , as to have their faces ground , and their bones broken , and their hearts fill'd with heavinesse , unlesse they will receive the clergie-classique faith , as well as the faith of the lord jesus christ himselfe . o miserable man ! who shall deliver him from this dangerous snare of death ; i meane of conceiting himself like unto paul and jesus christ , in the course he steer's against sects and errors ! and as for calvin , luther , and austin , though these had much more flesh and bloud in them , then the two former had ; yet for him to strengthen his hand in the way he goes , by their example , is as if a murtherer should incourage himselfe in his way , from the practise of a surgeon when he lets bloud , or the proceedings of a judge , when he slayes a malefactor with a sentence of death . for when , or in what age of the world did any of these spread the world round about them with snares of intelligence , in every place , to catch the failings , and haltings and infirmities of the saints ; and when they had taken a proportion of them , to spread a table with them to entertaine and feast the prophane world ? especially when did any of these , ever publish such a rhapsodie , of loose , light , lying reports and tales , all or the greatest part of them calculated for the shame of the saints , and glory of the sons of belial ? or when did any of them deale so importunely or imperiously with those , whom god had set in authoritie over them , to crush the generation of the righteous , the lambs of jesus christ , under the names of sectaries , only because in some things they held not conformitie in judgement with them ? i doe not all this while say , that either mr. edwards writing , or printing , or preaching , against errors , heresies , or sectaries , is that , which simply makes him unlike either unto christ , or paul , or those others named ; for doubtlesse they did , interpretatively at least , all this ; and who hath not ingagements upon him , to go thus far both with him and them , if he be able , and hath opportunitie ? but first , the blaspheming many truths of god , under the names of errors and heresies ( a stone at which his pen frequently dasheth ) maketh him extremely unlike unto christ and paul ; yea and unto those others also , except onely in their failings . secondly , his turning himselfe , especially with that fiercenesse of countenance , and furiousnesse of importunitie , upon the civill magistrate , to provoke men of this interest , to powre out themselves in wrath and indignation upon all those , whom he thinks good to make delinquents by his pen . thirdly , his sending forth of emissaries ( wherein , thorough a mistake of the word independents , in stead of presbyterians , he chargeth the independents to resemble the jesuites ) to discover , and report unto him , the slips and weaknesses of the servants of god . fourthly , his inveteratenesse , and dragon-likenesse of spirit , by which he manageth all his endeavours against errors and sectaries . fifthly , his importune confidence , and overgrowne presumption of his own parts , learning , knowledge . sixthly , his drinking in with so much greedinesse , all , and all manner of reports , that are brought in to him , whether with ground or without , that will but make dirt to throw in the faces of those , whose understandings are either longer or shorter then his , be they otherwise as deare to him whose name is jealous , as the apple of his eye . seventhly and lastly , his virulent and viperous designe , to preach the nakednesse of the saints , yea the nakednesse of vile and unworthy men ( i meane their false , base , and putid suggestions against them ) as their nakednesse , upon the house-top , and to call upon all the world to heare ; these things make him so extremely unlike jesus christ , and those others whom he pretends to imitate , that that drop of resemblance wherein he partakes with them , is quite drown'd and swallowed up in this great ocean of dissimilitude . and let mr. edwards know , and let his conscience and compeers know , that whatsoever he shall suffer , whether from his sectaries or others , in this bloudy negotiation , he shall suffer not as a christian , nor with christ , but as a malefactor and an evill doer . but i marvaile with what profound oracle of policie the man consulted with , about the title of his book , calling it , a catalogue and discovery of many errors of the sectaries . was it not that tyrannicall and bloudy principle : pereant amici , dummodo & inimici una pereant . i. let friends goe to wreck too , so that enemies may but wreck with them . for certainly , by this title he makes presbyterians sectaries , as well as any others . wherein i should not have faulted him , but onely to shew how that the zeale of high presbytery , hath eaten him up , and not left him so much of himself , as wherewith to know his friends from his enemies . for if men be therefore sectaries , because they hold such opinions , as he rallieth in his catalogue under the name of errors , i know many presbyterian sectaries . first , for that which he makes the 104 error in his catalogue , viz. that paedobaptisme is unlawfull , it is sufficienrly known , that the strongest shield and buckler wherewith that cause was ever protected , was the workmanship of a presbyterian hand . so for that opinion , that there is no scripture against a mans being often baptized ( mentioned in the 110th place ) it calls a presbyterian , master . that the calling and making of ministers of the word and sacraments , are not jure divino , &c. which is the 116th . that there is no distinction concerning government of ecclesiastical & civil , &c. ( the 141. ) are the opinions of one , who professeth himself to be no separatist a , and then i know not by mr. edwards principles , to make him any thing but a presbyterian . i know divers of the presbyterian judgement , as well regular as secular , that own the 70th error ▪ ( so called , or miscalled rather ; ) viz. that faith in a proper sense is imputed in justification , and that christs righteousnesse ( i● his active obedience ) is not imputed ( in the formality of it ) in justification ; though for his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} credere , it is a patch of his own peecing to the opinion , and is no expression of theirs , who otherwise are not ashamed of the opinion . to passe by many others of like patronage and relation ; that which hee cataloguizeth for the 64. viz. this , that naturall men may doe such things , as whereunto god hath by way of promise annexed grace and acceptation : and that if men improve their naturall abilities to the utmost in seeking grace , they shall find it . i desire to be informed by any understanding man , whether there be not every inch , yea every jot and tittle of the substance of it , asserted by a great doctor ( while he lived ) of the presbyterian schoole , and who being dead , yet speaketh much for that way . i mean mr. john ball , in his treatise of the covenant of grace , not long since published by m. simeon ash . the said treatise being further subscribed and recommended unto the world by five great masters of the assembly it selfe , all of them of intemerated fidelity to the presbyterian cause ; viz. mr. edward reynolds , mr. daniel cawdrey , mr. edmond calamy , mr. thomas hill , mr. anthony burges . in this passage ( p. 44. ) of the said treatise , no man is hindered from beleeving through the difficulty or unreasonablenesse of the command , or through his owne simple infirmity , as being willing and desirous to beleeve , but not able , ( which inability deserves pitie ) but his inabilitie is of corruption and wilfulnesse : hee doth not beleeve because hee will not : he is unable because he doth not covet or desire , which is inexcuseable . doubtlesse , if no man be hindered from beleeving , either through the difficulty of the command , or through his own infirmity ; and all the reason why a man doth not beleeve , is , because hee will not , naturall men by improving their abilities to the uttermost , may beleeve , and consequently doe that , whereunto god hath by way of promise annexed grace and acceptation . for hath he not promised , that he that beleeves shall be saved ? or doth not salvation amount to as much , or more , then grace and acceptation ? and if men should improve their naturall abilities to the uttermost , and yet not to be able to beleeve , the reason why they doe not beleeve , cannot be said to be this , because they will not : for their will in this case puts forth it selfe to the uttermost , in ingaging men to such an improvement of their abilities . so doubtlesse the same errror ( if an error it be ) is asserted by paulus testardus , pastor to the reformed church of bloys in france , in a tract called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , seu synopsis doctrine de natura & gratia , published not simply by the permission or licence , but ex mandato , by the command of a whole synod of the reformed churches in the province of orleance , p. 91. thesi 121. where hee saith , that god in all the three wayes or methods of calling sinners unto salvation ( which he had opened before ) doth not onely shew unto the sinner what hee should , or ought to doe , but gives power to all that are invited or called , to performe and doe it , and so to be saved if they will . so that if even he that is called onely in the most generall manner of all , be not saved , he is inexcuseable before god . this paul expresly teacheth , that ( saith hee ) which may bee known of god , is made manifest in them ( namely the gentiles , ) for god hath made it manifest unto them , that they might bee without excuse before him . but certainly ( he inferres ) excusable they had been , if they had been fully willing to doe it , and only wanted power a : with more of like importance in the seqeul of the same thesis . so that if m. edw. wil make this an error , and a brand of a sectary , to hold , that a man by the uttermost improvement of his natural abilities , may doe that , whereunto god by promise hath annexed grace and acceptation ( though all this while i doe not say that i own the opinion ) he will involve one whole synod , not onely with the guilt of the error ( which is lesse , ) but of an authoritative command , to have the error both printed and published , which is enough to separate between all synods , and their authority and esteem for ever ; yea , and make the crown of orthodoxisme to fade and languish upon the head of our present assembly , by arraigning five of the principall members of it at once , as men tainted with the errors of the sectaries of the time . therefore let him either strike these opinions mentioned ( with many others ) out of his catalogue of errors , or else let him number his own party amongst the sectaries . to draw towards a conclusion ; i shall put a measuring reed into the hand of the reader , wherewith to measure the truth and honesty of the gangrene and her author , from the one end of both unto the other , made of a straight observation of some crooked passages and relations in the gangrene , ready to stink for want of the salt of truth . i shall begin with such particulars as concern my self , and close with others of another aspect and relation . first , though hee doth not set my name in the margin against his 70th error , ( p. 25. ) as he had done a little before in the same page against another , yet his intent clearly enough was ( and i think himself will not deny it ) to arraigne the opinion held by me concerning the imputation of faith , and non-imputation of christs righteousnesse in justification , in my treatise upon that subject , entituled , imputatio fidei , for an error a . now how falsly and forgingly he represents the opinion , appeares first , in that hee fathers that mungrell expression , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} credere upon it , onely because it is an expression ad invidiam comparata , but no where used by me throughout the controversie : yea , p. 91. of the former part of that treatise sect. 3. i expresly deny that faith justifieth as it is an act . secondly , in that he makes this opinion to say , that the righteousnesse of christ is not imputed in justification . whereas i expresly affirm , ( p. 54. of the second part of the treatise ) that in a sense ( which i there explain ) as well the habituall holinesse of christs person , as the morall righteousnesse , or active obedience of his life , may be said to be imputed to those that beleeve in him . and very often in the said treatise , upon occasion , i declare in what sense i admit , as well as in what sense i refuse the righteousnesse or active obedience of christ in justification . i suppose he is not himself a son of that profound ignorance , as to hold , that the righteousnesse of christ ( as he calls it , whether meaning ▪ his active or passive obedience , or both ) is in every sense imaginable imputed in justification ; and yet it 's ill presuming of over-much understanding ( especially in the point of justification ) in him , who going about to rectifie the mistakes of others , shall himself affirm , that the redemption and reconciliation purchased by christ , is the moving and meritorious cause of our justification and salvation : and that the instrumental cause whereby the same is imputed , is the bloud of christ . of wch ▪ atheologicall and putid assertions , who would have thought that the great aristarchus of the errors & heresies of the times , could have been the author and assertor , had not mistresse gangraena in the margin of her 22. page betrayed him ? but if hee , onely denying the imputation of christs righteousnesse in justification in one sense , but asserting it in another , should be simply and indefinitly charged to deny it , would think the charge base and unjust ( as indeed hee should have cause to doe , ) hee himselfe must bow down his back to the same burden , and bee content to be looked ▪ upon as a man of this basenesse , untill hee hath made his atonement with god and men for it . ex ungue leonem . you may by this one instance judge with what truth or honesty hee hath laid down the rest of the opinions in his catalogue . well may he call them errors , when once he hath lift up his pen upon them . forgery hath a mischievous omnipotency , and is able to create what errors or heresies she pleaseth . again , p. 45. he chargeth mr. john goodwin , that in his point of justification , he quotes calvin , bucer , and others , who are known ex professo to be of another judgement . surely the man is not either so simple , or free from the guilt of false speaking in this assertion , as his words beare . doubtlesse he doth not intend to make it a matter of charge against a man , in the handling of a controversie , to quote authors who are known ex professo to be of a judgement differing from his . how many doth himselfe quote in his gangrene upon as deplorable terms as these ? but the mans meaning is , if he knew how to get it out , that mr. j. g ▪ in his point of justification , quotes calvin , bucer , and others , as being of the same judgement with him , who are known ex professo to bee of another judgement , if this be his sense and charge , either he shewes himselfe to be a very illiterate man , and not able to construe a peece of plain latin ; or else charges calvin , bucer , & the reft , wth being of a judgment as contrary to themselves as to me . if he can construe latin , let him confesse in english whether calvin bee ex professe of a differing judgment from me in the point of justification , in these passages following ( to omit very many others of the same import . ) quum autem justiciam in se repositam non habeant homines , imputatione hane adipiscuntur , quia deus fidem illis fert acceptam pro justiciâ , calvin in gal. 3. 6. and again , quare abraham credendo nihil aliud quam oblatam sibi gratiam amplectitur , ne irrita sit . si hoc illi imputatur in justiciam , sequitur non aliter esse justum , nisi quia dei bonitate consisus , omnia ab ipso sperare audet , calv. in rom. 4. 3. fides repvtatvr in jvsticiam , non quod ullum à nobis meritum afferat , sed quia dei bonitatem apprehendat . ibidem . yet again : quibus etiam verbis do●emur , iusticiam paulo nihil aliud esse quàm remissionem peccatorum . calvin rom. 4. 6. manet ergo salva nobis pulcherrima sententia , iustificari hominem fide , quia gratuita peccatorum remissione coram deo purgatus sit . ibid. abraham fidem habuit iehova : & reputavit id ei iusticiam : hoc est , habuit ei pro iusticia hanc fidem . credendo igitur id accepit , ut deus eum pro iusto haberet . bucer rom. 4. 3. i forbeare to english these passages , because i desire to make an experiment upon mr. edwards , whether he be able to doe it , or no . if he shall publickly acknowledge that he hath abused both me and himselfe , and many more , in charging me with quoting authors for me , who are known ex professo to be of another iudgement , i shall conceive the better hopes of some competency of a latin faculty in him ; but if he shal stand to avouch a charge of so palpable and manifest untruth , to them that understand the authors language a , i professe ingenuously that i know no reason but to judge him uncapable of the english sense of a latin sentence . but whether calvin , bucer , and those other he speakes of , quoted by me in my point of justification , be of the same judgement or no , with me in the point , let neither me , nor he , nor mr roborough be judges , ( for we very possibly may all be partiall ) but let us referre the decision to two sufficient men , and without exception , both for learning , and integritie , and knowledge of the case , the one a foreine divine , some yeares since at rest with god , never knowne to me ; the other a neighbour minister indeed , and of the assembly it selfe , but between whom and my selfe , there was never any acquaintance , beyond a casuall enterview , and the exchange of a few words of course . the former of the two is david pareus , sometimes chiefe professor of divinitie in the universitie in heidelburgh : who in his tract concerning the active and passive righteousnesse of christ , having laid downe his judgement ( in the controversie depending ) thus , ( pag. 176. ) that remission of sinnes for the satisfaction of christ imputed to us , is our whole and intire justification , and argued accordingly ( pag. 177. ) in the following page , addeth as followeth ; i might here produce the authorities of the fathers , who likewise place our righteousnesse ( meaning , in justification ) in the alone forgivenesse of sinnes for the death of christ : and accordingly cites severall testimonies out of austin , oecumenius , and ambrose . and immediately after these testimonies , thus ; i might also alledge the consent of luther , melancthon , zuinglius , oecolampadius , calvin , bullinger , martyr , musculus , hyperius , vrsine , olenian , &c. from whose doctrine in the point of justification , i doe not vary a nailes breadth . so that the light of this mans reading and judgement together , could discover no other opinion touching the formall cause of justification , either in the fathers , or any of the chiefe protestant writers in his time , but that it should stand onely in remission of sinnes . the latter of the two mentioned is , mr thomas gataker , a man of approved learning and integrity amongst us : who in mr an. wottons defence against mr walkers charge , lately published in print by him , acknowledgeth ( p. 58. ) that however he for his part deemeth it erroneous ( and so doe i too , taking the word justification in that large sense which it seemeth he doth where he argueth against the opinion , as viz. in his animadversions upon the disputes between piscator and lucius , p. 9. besides sundry other places ) to hold that justification consisteth in remission of sinnes , yet that calvin , beza , olenian , vrsine , zanchie , piscator , pareus , musculus , bullinger , fox , and divers others of great note and name , yea whole synods of ours are found so to say : adding further , and yet were these men never yet , that i ever heard or read , for so saying , condemned as heretiques , much lesse as blasphemous heretiques , but had in high esteeme , as their worth , parts , and workes well deserved , by those that therein dissented from them . i trust the servant is not greater then his master ; nor the authoritie of the clerk , equall to that of the justice of peace . if mr. gataker hath spoken , i hope mr. roborough will hold his peace . and since two such men , as david pareus and mr. thomas gataker , have so clearly and confidently affirmed , every mouth ( i trust ) of clamor and contradiction will from henceforth be stopped . for in the mouth of two or three witnesses ( saith the divine law it selfe ) shall every word be established a : yea i am not without some hope , but that mr. thomas edwards himselfe , may in time be reduced , though i know that in clamorous and aspersive bickerings , he emulates the glory of that martiall zeale which was in him , who still affected to appeare , primus inire manu , postremus ponere bellum , i ▪ the first to fight , and last to quit the field . pag. 45. he affirmes , that quoting his antapologie , and citing the former part of the sentence , i leave out the latter ; adding this palpable untruth ; that had i but named it , it would have been an evident confutation of me . i clearly prov'd ( sect. 13. of this answer ) that the latter part of the sentence he speaks of , especially construed with the former part which i cite , is absolute and complete non-sense . and was any man ever evidently confuted in evident non-sense ? except it be in such a sense , as he that drinkes puddle water , confutes him that chooseth rather to drinke at the cleare fountaine or streame . pag. 67. he chargeth his sectaries or independents , that they use to give great and glorious names , and swelling titles to their bookes , as ( for instance ) innocency and truth triumphing together , &c. i perceive by his aggrievement at this title , first , that if high presbyterie be advanc'd , neither innocency , nor truth , are like to triumph : this keene piece of presbyterie is not able to beare the mention of such things . secondly , that matters of truth any wayes tending to the disparagement of independency , are very rare , and scarce , and not to be had for love or money . for otherwise , ( doubtlesse ) the man would not have plaid at so small game , would not have strain'd himself to catch at this flie . as much love as a single half-peny , would have serv'd to have cover'd this transgression . what ? not so much libertie meet to be allowed to independents , as to give what names they think best to their bookes , without a synodicall debate , and permission ? i confesse , gangraena , is no great or glorious name , but it is a title swelling with poyson , and the gall of aspes . but for me , i shall take no offence at it : the proverb is but fulfilled , similes habent labra lactucas ; like lips , like lettuces . both title and booke ( i presume ) are savoury meat to those for whom they were prepared , and such as their soules love , as marrow and fatnesse . but what reason he hath to call innocencie and truth triumphing together , either a great and glorious name , or swelling title , wee desire to gather from the tree of paradise the next moneth of her fructification . in the mean season , mr edwards must suffer as an unjust asperser in this charge also . pag. 54. he chargeth mr. john goodwin , in a sermon to have uttered that against the parliament , and the power of it , as opens a gap to all slighting of their authoritie and power : and further addeth , that he believes there was never any such speech from any before himselfe . but first , if any such gap ( as he speaks of ) be opened , i know no wild beasts that have broken in at it , but some such presbyterians , who ( as i heare ) demanded , what hath the parliament to doe with inferior courts ? and who charge some of the worthy members thereof , to be hereticall and factious ; yea ninnies and grolls , and men that have no more wit , then will reach from their nose to their mouth , and are onely sensible . i confesse in respect of such presbyterian spirits as these , there had need be no gap opened to the slighting of parliamentarie authoritie and power : and that the parliament it selfe had need keepe power out of such hands , which without it know how to be imperious enough . but secondly , it is so far from being true , that i in the sermon he speaks of , have uttered any thing against the parliament or power of it ; much more , any thing which opens any gap to all slighting of their authoritie and power ; that he himselfe in this charge against me , dasheth his foote against the stone he speaks of . for first , that which he insinuates as uttered by me of such a consequence , is nothing else but manifest and cleare truth ; yea and hath passed the triall of presbyterian fire it selfe , and is come forth in full weight , without suffering the least damage or detriment by it . secōdly , most certain it is , that no truth whatsoever hath any prejudiciall or endamaging influence upon any just and lawfull authoritie ; for god is not divided in , or against himselfe . therefore he that shall affirme , that any authoritie or power whatsoever , is any waies endangered , prejudic'd , or disparaged by any truth , doth by an unavoidable consequence , denie that authoritie or power to be lawfull , or from god . nor could mr. edwards lightly have uttered any thing , that would have strooke more dangerously at the very roote of all parliamentarie authoritie and power , then to say , that he that speakes the truth , speaks against them , and opens a gap to all slighting of them . but thirdly ( and lastly ) let mr. edwards and his abettors in this charge know , that it is not they who speake the truth , whether to parliament or princes , that open a gap to the slighting of their authoritie or power ; no : but they are the men of this demerit and impietie , who for their own ends flatter them , and have their persons in admiration for advantage ; who straine their wits and consciences together , to lift them up nearer to the heavens then god will beare , that so they may be masters of an opportunitie and power , to gratifie them in their carnalls . and the truth is , that had not god by more then an ordinary hand of grace , both towards themselves , and towards the nation , made those honorable and worthy counsellors , wiser then their teachers ; satan had a most dangerous advantage against them , to have made them more unwise then their enemies . page 73. he chargeth the independents , that many of them play at cards and tables , are very loose on the sabbath dayes , goe to bowls and other sports on dayes of publick thankesgiving , as mr. iohn goodwin , and severall of his church , &c. whether his intent be to justifie and make good the first and second branches of this charge , viz. the independents playing at cards and tables , and their loosness on the sabbath dayes , by the instance of mr. iohn goodwin and severall of his church , i will not determine . certain i am , that according to the common rules of construction , his words import it , and i beleeve that not one reader of ten but so understands him . if this be his sense , abhorred of all men be his lying : for mr. iohn goodwin neither playes at cards nor at tables ; neither hath he done either since his first comming to the citie , nor of many yeares before ; nor doth he know any of his church addicted to either of these recreations . but however , i marvell the man should think to burthen the independents with these exercises of cards and tables , when as it is so generally known , of what light account , and generall use they are in the best reformed presbyterian churches . and if there bee any of the independent way so much addicted to them , as mr. edwards charge seems to import , i beleeve they are chiefly , if not onely , those whom mr. edwards calls malignants , complaining of them for falling to this way ; and who lately drank of the same waters of episcopacie with the far greatest part of the presbyterian party , and now accompany them in their schisming or rending off from that way . and ( alas ! ) who knowes not how hard a thing it is for men that have a long time drunk old wine with their old friends , presently to drink new ? for his charge of loosnesse on the sabbath dayes , the net of independency , like that of the gospel ( as it seems by the many bitter complaints made by mistresse gangraena in that behalfe ) gathering fishes of every kind , good and bad a , and that in such abundance , as the tenor of the said complaints imports , i am not able to speak for the whole circumference . but for m. i. goodwin and severall of his church , who are the onely persons in whom instance is given to make good the truth of the charge , we desire that when his great labours of powring out the viall upon the sun be over , he will please to refresh himselfe with telling out the story at large , with the particularities of it , viz. on what sabbath , or sabbaths it was , whether before saint ieffrey or after , that either himselfe or his informers saw that loosnesse in mr. iohn goodwin and severall of his church , and what loosnesse it was , and who of his church they were , that transgrest this transgression with him . for my part , i shall not goe about to justifie my selfe , or all of my church from more loosnesse then well becomes us , on such dayes ; but i know no loosnesse comparable to that , when ministers of the gospel , ( whether such , or so called by themselves ) shall take liberty under the name of preaching to vent vagrant , loose , light , lying tales and reports , on purpose to defame the good wayes and servants of god ; or else to make lowd challenges to all the world , to make good what they deliver , and yet shrink and decline the incounter with a few plain conscientious men . doublesse neither mr. iohn goodwin , nor any of his church , ever trespassed the trespass of any such loosnesse as this on any sabbath day ; nor of any other equall in demerit to it . but though hee should cavill himselfe off from the charge of charging , either mr. iohn goodwin or any of his church , either with playing at cards and tables , or with loosnesse on sabbath dayes , yet he must own the charging of them with going to bowles , and other sports , on dayes of publick thankesgiving . therefore , first , because he speaks of dayes in the plurall number , as of many ; we desire him , that in the next return of his monethly course upon him , he will throughly purge himselfe from all malignancy in this particular of his charge , by naming those dayes of publick thankesgiving wherein this hainous offence ( but against no commandment or law , either of god or man ) was committed . wee cannot allow it , no not by his own law for a sufficient come-off , to say that on such a day of publick thankesgiving , the men impeached trespassed the said impeachment , except he can give instance of the pretended miscarriage in more dayes then one , of that denomination . for himselfe in his antapologie , p. 54. quarrels with his you five ( as ever and anone hee calls the apologists ) onely for saying , that some of their brethren in their printed books do candidly testifie of them ; telling them ( by way of reproof , and charge of untruth in their assertion ) that it is but one of them , not some that doe so testifie . therefore by his own rule , an assertion of the plurall number cannot be justified by a single instance or example of what is plurally asserted . and yet who knowes not the very law of nature allowes a man a greater indulgence of phrase and expression in his own purgation , then it doth in charging or impeaching others ? secondly , wee desire of our grand-accuser , the next time hee comes amongst us with his monethly visitation , to let the world know , what other sports they are that mr. iohn goodwin , and some of his church use to go unto on dayes of publick thankesgiving , besides bowles : they are not conscious to themselves of transgressing either in bowles or in any other sports on such dayes . thirdly ( and lastly ) we desire of him for the further vindication of himselfe in this charge , when it shall next bee with him after the manner aforesaid , that hee will please to speak it out , that the world may hear , on what day of publick thanksgiving , about what time or houre of the day , whether fore-noon , or afternoon ; whether in the morning , or in the evening it was that mr. iohn goodwin , with severall of his church went , or on such dayes are wont to goe to bowles and other sports . for if it were on the evening of such a day , that the deed was done , it is no clean strain to say it was done in the day it selfe , especially except some notice were given in the margin , that he chargeth by the day naturall , not artificiall . and besides , if it proves but an evening transgression ▪ the constant practice of the gravest presbyterians themselves , going to see the fire works usually made in severall places of the citie , on every fifth of november , being the most ancient , and honorable day of publick thankesgiving unto the nation , will be an abundant atonement for it . but ( reader ) that thou maist understand ab ovo ad mala , from the top to the toe , the nature and tenor of that grand delinquencie in point of loosnesse , which is here charged upon mr. john goodwin and severall of his church , the story truly and briefly is this : vpon the day ordered by authority for publick thanksgiving unto god for his gracious and good hand upon the new modell in the victory at nazeby the last summer , having preached somewhat long , and to wearines in michaels cornhill in the fore-noon , and being hereby somewhat indisposed to further labour that day , i kept my house privatly in the afternoon , till about five or six of the clock . at which time two of the brethren comming in , and finding me in no better posture , desired me to walk out a little into the fields with them , suggesting that a walk in the fresh aire might doe me some good . so a walk we took , the season being pleasant and faire ; and having walked about a quarter of a mile , or very little more , and being now upon returning , one of those that were with me told the other and my selfe , that if we thought good to ease our selves a little before wee returned , there was a garden-house of a friend of his ( a man familiarly known also to my self and the other , though of a differing judgement from us in point of discipline ) neere at hand , and that if we pleased we might step in thither , and repose our selves for a while . comming into the garden , we betook our selves to an arbour , and there fate about halfe an houre . during which time ( and i know not how long before ) there was a company playing at bowles in a little alley in the garden ; whom ( i presume ) we shall not wrong in case we judge them presbyterians , though ( i confesse ) wee did not examine them upon the point . but before this company had given over their exercise , there came into the garden to us some more of our acquaintance , some of them of our , others of them of m. edwards judgement in point of church-government . when the company that all this while had been bowling , quit their ground , one in our company , ( i remember not who , or of what judgement ) asked mee if i would not stirre my self a little by casting a bowle before i went home . the motion being made , and the rest inclining to it , wee went , whether 6 or 8 , of us , i doe not remember ; but that the one part was presbyterian , and the other independent , i perfectly remember , and betook our selves for about halfe an houre to the exercise ; the sun by this time being either down , or very neere it ; and so returned home . this is the story of that drop of water which m. edwards hath got upon the tip of his finger to cool his tongue , being ( as it seems ) grievously tormented in the flames of passion and indignation , that the world should no more wonder after the presbyterians for holinesse and religion , then to think that the independents had equall part and fellowship with them therein . but let us animadvert a few things upon the story before wee leave it . first , it is very observeable that the man , who ( it seems ) holds correspondency with the world , and with all parts in the kingdome , to receive intelligence of all the miscarriages and undue deportments of all such as are independently given , is notwithstanding necessitated for the carrying up his great designe of their defamation , to article against them supposed miscarriages and misdemeanors , in stead of those that are truly and really such . mr. edwards i presume knowes , that where there is no law , there is , there can be , no sin , no transgression a : for that sin ( all sin ) is a transgression of some law b . now then till mr. edwards shall produce some law either of god or man , against which mr. iohn goodwin and those of his church hee speakes of , trespassed in bowling as aforesaid , ( which i know hee will not bee able to doe till the day after doomsday ) it must be acknowledged that all their offence and miscarriage therein , amounts to no more , then onely to an unhappy occasion of causing mr. edwards to give testimony unto them , whilst his heart was up to dishonor them . secondly , it is considerable , that as there were some of mr. john goodwins church : so there were some ( and , as i remember , more ) of mr. edwards his church also , ( i mean of the church of england ) who were involved in that innocent transgression of playing at bowles ; yea , the owner of the garden and alley , a godly and honest man , and competently warm in the presbyterian way , was partaker with them in the supposed oversight . but ( as was said before ) his maxime is , pereant amici dummodo & inimiciuna pereant . let us bespatter our enemies , what ever becomes of our friends . thirdly , for my selfe , i neither so much as handled a bowle for many months , ( i think i might truly say , for some years ) before ; nor have i done it since : nor would i then have drunk this cup of cold water , could i have thought the weaknesse of any brother so great , as to be offended at it . but now perceiving the presbyterian weaknesse to be so excessively and importunely great as it is , i doe hereby , in the word of a minister of the gospel , secure mr. edwards , and all his tender retinue , that i wil drink no more any such waters , i mean cast a bowle on a day or night of publick thanksgiving , whilst the world stands , lest i should offend them . but fourthly , if i had a mind to demand a tooth for a tooth , i could call some presbyterian starres by their names , and those of the first magnitude , who upon a day of publick thanksgiving , fell every whit as far from heaven , as mr. i. goodwin and those of his church did . yea , if you sift the doctorate it selfe of the assembly , i beleeve you wil find a man dropping through your sieve , who with three more ( of his com-or sub-presbyters rather , four ministers in all ) consecrated the greater part ( if not the whole ) of an afternoon upon a publick thankesgiving day , to a service that had no more religion in it , then the fishermans daily occupation and imployment : nor did their exercise ( it seems ) receive any great testimony from heaven , they ate but very little of the labour of their hands ; two roaches ( as saith the history ) being all that providence and they could agree upon for the reward of their afternoone service . but presbyterians ( i perceive ) have a priviledge asserted to steale horses , without sin : but poore independents must not have so much as a toleration to look on . and if mr. edwards will not take faire warning when it is given him , and give over telling tales of independents , i know who is resolv'd to sift the fore-mentioned heap yet neerer to the bran : and to make the world judge , whether presbyterian mistakes in the night , be not far worse then independent bowlings on dayes ( or evenings rather ) of publick thanks givings . yea i know who hath a story of a presbyterian angel , which doth but waite for the opening of mr. edwards mouth in reproaches and slanders against his independent brethren the second time , to clap into it , and stop it for ever . yea i my self have a manuscript by me , which came to my hands above a yeare since , concerning mr. edwards himself ; which discourseth his jugling and indirect walking between the two townes of godalmin in surrey , and dunmow in essex . the writing will be attested by good hands : and if there be no remedy , will be content to submit it selfe to the presse . in the meane time , how wofull and sad is the method , wherein the case depending between presbytery and independency , must now ( it seemes ) thorough mr. edwards his horrid and portentuous proceedings , be argued and debated thorough ! the arguments on both sides being onely or chiefly , firebrands of reproaches and defamations , throwne in faces of the one side by the other . so that that way of the two , which is able to render the sons of her competitresse most odious and hatefull unto the world , must sit as queene , and weare the crowne . mr. edwards by the method , wherein he hath begun to plead the cause of presbytery , and threatens to proceed , hath devoted the names and reputations of all of his owne partie , at least of such of them as are any wayes obnoxious , to the universall abhorring both of the present , and future ages . therefore it concernes all presbyterians in generall , and the doctorage of this way more particularly , that are any wayes conscious , to heale the gangrene of his pen , & to restraine the further spreading of it : otherwise their names and reputations are but so many dead corpses . 5. whilst mr. edwards so conscientiously refraineth from casting a bowle upon the evening of a thankesgiving day , and takes libertie to recreate himself with revilings and bitter speakings against the wayes and servants of god in the heart and strength of such dayes , ( as his manner is too too frequently to doe ) doth he not straine out gnats , and swallow camels ? and run parallel in practise with those priests & people , who refused to goe into the common hall , left they should be defiled a ; but fear'd no defilement from prosecuting that just one , even unto death ? yea doth he not by such distinctions as these , imitate the temper and spirit of the goddesse diana among the heathen , who ( as iphigenia in euripides saith of her ) was wont to drive from her altar , as uncleane , whoever did but touch a woman in childbed , or a person slaine ; and yet delighted to have men slaine in sacrifice unto her ? 6. ( and lastly ) may it not be some question , whether the particularitie of that day of publique thanksgiving , wherein mr. edwards finds mr. john goodwin and some of his church so tardie , might not occasion him to sift the independents more narrowly on that day , then on many others ? it was said of king philip , that though he loved the treason , yet he hated the traytor . so wee have many spirits amongst us who love victories , and yet doe little lesse then hate the victors , i meane those by whom it pleaseth god to give many of these unto them . mr. edwards administers a strong ground of suspition , that he himself is a man of this dark complexion , in the last page ( save one ) of his dedicatory epistle , where , having first strip'd himself nak'd of all principles of reason and ingenuitie , he thus shamelesly bespeakes the two honourable houses of parliament . and who knows but that all these victories are sent to take away all excuse , to answer this objection , and to encourage you to this work ? the work he speaks of , and whereunto he supposes that no man can be ignorant , but that the parliament are incouraged from god by those many victories which he hath given them , is ( as appeares by the tenor and straine of the whole epistle ) the crushing and utter undoing of all those , whose consciences cannot submit to the lawes of presbytery in all things appertaining to god . so then , it being generally knowne , that many considerable persons , whom god hath honored , by making them eminently instrumentall in the victories he speaks of , cannot presbyterialize in things of god ; that which he saith to the parliament in the words mentioned , being interpreted , is this ; who knows but that the many victories , which god hath given you , were intended by him as a means of incouragement unto you , to quash and crush the greatest part of those men , who were signally instrumental and serviceable both to god and them in the obtaining of them , together with all those that adhere in judgement to them in the land . now the spirit of the man being so extremely incomportable with the honour , comfort , or peace of many of those who were prime actors in the service at naseby , lest the valour and faithfulnesse of these men being commended by god unto the nation with such remarkable successe , should plead with too nigh an hand the goodnesse of the way wherein they serve and worship god , in the minds and thoughts of the generalitie of men , he ( probably ) conceiv'd that the best way to prevent this misery from coming upon him , was to inquire out how men professing the same way with them , behav'd themselves on that day , whereon publique thankes were to be given unto god for that victory : that so in case any unseemly or unworthy thing could be found out and charged upon any of them , as on this day , the divulging of it , might help to break the strength and interest of that other plea in the minds of men . page 70. he observes , that two of my children were taken away by the plague of pestilence , upon the making my house a meeting for the sectaries . that two of my children were taken away , by that hand of god he speaks of , others so reporting it besides mr. edwards , ( for touching the manner or means of their taking away , i know nothing but by report , my selfe having been far absent severall weeks , when god took them away ) i shall not denie . and if he had staid his pen and clos'd the period here , he had wrought little lesse then a miracle ; for he had uttered one whole sentence of truth . but now he may take up the poets lamentation ; sed mea me in culpam nimirùm fata trahebant : the spirit that attends him , ( it seems ) envied him the crown of that glory . for in saying , that this was done upon making my house a meeting for the sectaries , he makes the sentence like unto its fellows , i meane void of truth . for first , my house is a solid substance ; whereas mr. edwards meeting is a fluid accident . i never heard of an house , that was made a meeting till now . and if mine be transformed into such a thing , doubtlesse mr. edwards hath done it by some magique incantation ; i have done no such thing to it my self . but it is the mans unhappinesse to be ever and anon tardie , in non-sense , as well as in non-truth . 2. if his meaning be , that i have made a meeting place of it , whether for sectaries , or whosoever , he doth not herein neither nick the truth . for if by my house , he means , my dwelling house , consisting of that building and roomes , wherein i keepe and converse daily with my familie , ( which is the ordinary acception of the word ) this is no wayes altered by me since my coming to it . or 3. if his meaning be , that i have ordered and disposed some part of the buildings which i have hired , with an intent to have sectaries meet there ; neither yet doth the man or his meaning agree with the truth . i confesse one roome in these buildings , is ordered with an intent that such persons who thinke it worth their time to attend my ministery , whether presbyterians or others , may be some wayes accommodated to partake thereof . but that i ever made it , or intended to make it , a meeting-place for sectaries , well may it be one of mr edwards assertions , but truth it is none . nor doe i know any sort of persons that ever met in it yet , that any whit more deserve the denomination of sectaries , then the presbyterians themselves . but 4. ( and lastly ) if the mans meaning be , ( which is simply the best construction can be made of his words ) that i have permitted and given way , that some part of the buildings which i have taken , should be us'd by such persons , as in his mis-carrying dialect are called sectaries , to meet in ; neither will this relieve him against the habituated foulnesse of his pen , or make the sentence cleane . for it was not upon that permission or grant of mine , that my two children were taken away , nor yet upon the furnishing of the roome for conveniency of meeting , ( for the sectaries he speaks of , both presbyterians & others , had met therein severall times before the least haire of the heads of either of the children fell to the ground ) but it was upon my deserting and disuse of it for a longer time , then god ( it seems ) was well pleased with ; at least if i should look upon the taking them away , as a stroake of anger or displeasure from god . but as touching the providence it selfe about my children , whether i should look upon it as having more of mercie , or more of judgement in it , i am not satisfied to this day . though the children ( i confesse ) were deare unto me , & their lives very desireable , upon hopes that god ( howsoever ) would have provided for them , if he had thought it meet they should live ; yet considering that the best part of that livelihood and means of subsistence which i had , was by a strong hand taken from me , i could not so much look upon the taking of them away by god , as a taking them away from me , as from that misery , whereunto the undeserved hatred and injustice of my presbyterian neighbours , in wresting and detaining my means from me , had exposed them . men took away my means ; and god made up the breach ( in part ) by diminishing my charge . neither were they taken away alone : there was a greater number of children taken away out of a prebyterian familie neere to them , by the same hand of god ; where yet there was no meeting-place made for sectaries . and besides , i could soone be out of mr. edwards debt for this story concerning two of my children being taken away ; by telling him of three grave men ( and two of them great ) who were principall actors in my troubles and ejection , taken away by death since the good service they did to the presbyterian partie in that transaction . god hath cut off both head and taile of those my adversaries : but i leave mr edw. to make observatiōs upon it : for my part , i make none . i have now perfected reckonings and accounts between mr. edwards and my selfe , and have set straight the foule errors and falsifications of his bookes in these . i have yet another small parcell of accounts to cleare with him in the behalfe of others : and by that time i shall have issued these , though i shall be very briefe in this transaction , yet i feare i shall make him uncapable of any quietus est for ever . for doubtlesse the man hath sold himselfe to write all , and all manner of untruths that he can but scrapple together , from what mouths or tongues or pens he cares not , so they be but presbyterian in their constitution , and carry any antipathie in them either to the honour or peace of independencie . i presume that mris gangraena hath not as yet paid me the tith or tenth part of her forgeries : it is like in time shee will be more honest in this , and i shall receive knowledge of the whole substance of her iniquitie . i shall begin this latter account , where mr. edwards wel-nigh makes an end ; with a story related by him in the very last leafe , ( save one ) of his booke , viz. p. 181. concerning one cosens of rocbester in kent . by the way , if the common proverb , which saith , that the best is at the bottome , takes place in his booke ; forgery of forgeries , and all is forgery , all over it . for in this relation , ( by which you may judge both of those many that goe before it , and those few that follow after it ) there are wel-nigh , quot verba , tot mendacia : and yet even this also hath this banner of confidence displayed before the face of it ; i was enformed for certaine : upon which preface we shall animadvert presently . first , his relation here reports , that one cosens of rochester in kent , that jesus christ was a bastard . hoc primum : let this be the first lie in this catalogue : the man never said it . 2. this report avoucheth , that the said cosens said , that if jesus christ were upon the earth againe , he would be ashamed of many things he then did . this is another of the same , and the second in order . for neither did the man speake any such words as these ; the witnesse , upon whose single testimony , ( originally ) both these and the former words were charged upon him , upon reexamination , and that upon oath , before the committee of the countie , wav'd both the one and the other ; as appeares by the said examination under the hand of the clerk of the said committee , which i saw & read ; and is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction . 3. this information of mr. edwards affirmes , that the said cosens , for the said blasphemies , was put into prison in rochester . keep tale : this is a third stumble . the occasion of the mans imprisonment , was a matter of a quite differing nature ; as by inquiry may be found out by any man ; though for some reasons the partie thinketh not so fit to have it printed . 4. the said certain information informeth ; that the said cosens being committed , at the sessions there came an order from some in place to the recorder to release him . skore up : this is the fourth word of folly in this narration . for there came no order from any in place , nor unto any in place , recorder or other , for the release of the man ; but upon the sight of the fore-mentioned examination taken upon oath before the committee , by the justices , the man was discharged . this untruth may well stand for two ( or at least be printed in a capitall letter ) because men of honour and place are aspersed by it , as if they interposed with their interest or power to obstruct the course of law and justice . 5. the information now under impeachment , further averreth , that upon the receipt of the said order , the recorder a serjeant at law , and a grave man , used these words ; cosens , know you must shortly come before another court to answer for these words , where you shall have no order to release you . tallie on : this is a fift ( if not a fift and sixt ) phib in the relation . for here is a big lye with a lesser in the belly of it . for , first , the recorder he speaks of , never , upon no occasion , spake any such words as these to the man : nor secondly , did he ever receive any such order , as is here spoken of ; and so could not speake , either these words , or any other , upon the receipt of it . 6. this loud-lying information , further attests , that this man ( cosens ) being at libertie , entertaines in his house the sectaries that come from london , or other places into those parts , as den , lamb , woodman , &c. keep tale ; this is a sixt flaw ( at least ) in the certain information . for the man professeth that he knows no such man , as woodman ; nor that ( to his knowledge ) he ever saw the face of the man . 7. ( and lastly ) the said presbyterian information , for uniformitie sake , that it may end as it began , affirmes ( in the cloze of it ) that this cosens is so bold , that he dares threaten to question and trouble godly orthodox presbyteriall ministers , and goes to some of their churches to see if he can get any matter against them : for example , he hath gone to one mr. clares , a godly minister , and threatened upon hearing him to complaine of him , and put in articles against him . remember the account : for this is the seventh and eighth time ( at least ) that the information prevaricateth with the truth . for first , the man is so far from daring to threaten to question or trouble any godly minister whatsoever , that he professeth it to be his judgement , that neither godly , nor ungodly , whether ministers or others , ought to be questioned or troubled for their judgements in matters appertaining unto god . therefore secondly , though he confesseth that he went to mr clare upon the preaching of a sermon , and told him that he had not delivered the truth ; yet that he any wayes threatned mr. clare , he absolutely denieth . i find nothing more to be excepted against in this information of the 9th of february , as matter of untruth : the reason ( i conceive ) is , because there is no more of it . this counter-information , i had from the mouth of the said cosens himselfe , and have the particulars under his hand . now though there be never a sentence ( scarce a clause or piece of a sentence ) true in all this relation , yet it hath mr edwards seale upon it , and this foundation ; i was informed for certain : but first , by this specialtie of honour , i was informed for certain , bestowed upon this relation , doth he not plainly grant and imply , that he was informed of many other things in his gangrene , for uncertain ? if he had been informed of the greatest part of them for certain untruths , his information had been orthodox , and no guile found in the lips of it . but secondly , if mr. edwards signall and choice reports , of which he was informed for certain , be of so dark and dismall a complexion , that there is scarce so much as one beame , or the least glimmering of the light of truth in the whole body of some of them , what shall we think of those that have no such image or superscription of confidence upon them ? if his chariots and horsemen faile , surely his infantery will yeeld the field . 3. ( and lastly ) i would gladly understand , by what character of difference the man discernes between his informations for certain , and those that are but of vulgar repute with him , and for which he alloweth three graines of non-beliefe : i suppose such as come from his godly orthodox presbyterian ministers , he holds for certain : those which come from hands whose heads have not been anointed with the hands of consecration , more ambiguous and doubtfull ; and yet certain enough to be reported and spread , if their faces be but set against independency . but who is mr edwards godly orthodox presbyterian minister ? is he not such an one , who works stoutly at the forge , and feeds both himself & the world with all manner of scandals and falshoods against the independents , without feare ? we have reason to judge so by the rule of proportion . for p. 57. he pronounceth a man , a person religious , and well-affected to the parliament , only upon occasion of a letter written by him , full fraught with false and foule stories and insinuations against his sectaries ; who is look'd upon by men as godly , and as judicious as mr. edwards , yea and who have better opportunitie to know the spirit and wayes of the man , in reference to both those particulars , then he ; by such ( i say ) this man is look'd upon , as a man no wayes deserving either of those commendations , except it be by the figure {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; as will appeare ( in part ) by a letter , whereof we shall give a copie before we end . you have seene the man like himselfe in a kentish storie : let us crosse the water , and see whether wee can finde him in any better shape on this side . pag. 78. & 79. he tells you a long formall story of one nichols , living about moore-fields , that comes into stepney-parish to draw away people : that to mr. greenhils face did justifie and maintain many wicked opinions , &c. vpon occasion whereof there was a meeting concluded , and mr. greenhill and mr. burroughs , with many others , were at it . hee tells you further when this meeting was , viz. a little before mr. burroughs fell upon the preaching of the power of the magistrate in matters of religion . and further adorns the relation with many good words that mr. greenhill should speak at this meeting ; with others that mr. burroughs should speak , as particularly , that in regard of these things , matters being so , there was a necessity both of the government of the church , and of the power of the magistrate , &c. as likewise with others that should be spoken by divers others there present . this story is long , and the particular forgeries in it numerous beyond measure . in which respect i shall desire the reader at his leasure to make the computation , which he may do with exactnes enough , if he shall please to compare mr. edwards relation with these ensuing lines which i received from mr. burroughs himself in writing , anent the businesse : that story mr. edwards hath , page 79. of one nichols , and of a meeting concluded of , occasioned by some vise opinions vented by that nichols , where mr. greenhill and my selfe ( he sayes ) was , together with divers passages that hee relates came from mee at that meeting , is all false . i know no such man as this nichols , i never heard there was such a man in the world , till i read it in mr. edwards his book . i to this day know of no meeting about him , or any of his opinions , either intended , desired , or resolved upon , much lesse that there was any such meeting . the next lords day after mr. edwards his book came forth , m. greenhill asked me whether i knew of any such meeting with that nichols : for his part he wondred to see such a thing in mr. edwardshis book , for he knew of no such meeting . thus far m. burroughs . and because we have had occasion here to mention mr. burroughs ; and mr. edwards takes occasion p. 33. not onely to deale by him as he doth by his other sectaries , whose opinions he arraignes ( ad placitum ) for errors ; but seldome either names their persons , or encounters their opinions by argument ; whereas hee hath expressed himselfe in both against him ; i desire to insert a few lines for the vindication of him that is unjustly charged , by detecting the weaknesse and groundlesnesse of the charge . the opinion wherewith mr. burroughes stands there charged amongst the sectaries , as with an error , is this : whatsoever errors or miscarriages in religion , the church should bear withall in men , continuing them still in communion with them , as brethren , these the magistrates should beare with in men , continuing them in the kingdome or commonwealth , in the enjoyment of the liberty of subjects . but first it is to be considered , that mr. burroughes , p. 34. of his book , had laid down this position , that notwithstanding any plea of conscience , yet if the error be destructive to the state , a man may be dealt withall by the state for it . and secondly , this , ( p. 35. ) that no pretence of conscience can excuse a man in any matter of apparent injustice . these two conclusions pre-asserted , he comes , ( p. 67. ) to give this rule for forbearance in matters of religion : that whatsoever miscarriages in matters of religion the church should beare with , these the magistrate should beare with : because though it should be never so much granted , that the magistrate is custos utriusque tabulae , yet his charge in matters of religion reacheth not further then the charge of the church doth . now mr. edwards to confute this , instanceth in a man whose conscience is not satisfied in the point of subjects taking up armes against armies raised by a prince , and therefore refuseth bearing armes , and all maintenance to such a warre , &c. such a man as this ( saith he ) the state may sequester , and the parliament i think hath sequestred many upon such occasions , taking their estates , &c. surely this confutation is so farre from being fit to satisfie any scholar , that it hath hardly strength or colour enough to take women or weake people with a . for doth the state deale with such a person as he gives instance in , as for an error , or matter in religion ? or for injustice to the state ; yea , apparent injustice , and that which is destructive to the state ? for forbearing that , which if others should for beare also , the state must needs be destroyed ? now evident it is , that mr. burroughs doctrine or rule touching for bearance , concerns matters of religion , when the subject matter is religion , not matters of state , wherein men may pretend conscience ; yea , it may bee , are conscientious indeed so farre , and in such a sense , as men of an erroneous conscience may be such . but this confutation of mr. burroughs is ( it seems ) but a forlorn hope ; the fore-runner of a great army of confutations advancing . troilus ( i see ) will needs be trying his valour with achilles , whatsoever it costs him : infelix puer , atque impar congressus achilli . how his pen hath abused mr. ellis of colchester , and other faithfull servants of god in those parts , with base calumnies and slanders , the world ( i conceive ) will shortly understand by an expresse from thence : for mr. ellis himselfe writes thus to a friend in london . the aspersions cast on me , and some others here , by mr. edwards , are as false as foule : which because they are a great part of his book and strength , those who are here concerned in it , will , if god please , shortly make reply . page 57. he affirms that the preceding letter beginning thus : ( p. 54. ) worthy sir , the consideration of those many , &c. was written to him by a person religious , and cordially affected to the parliament . i know not the man my selfe , and therefore shall not attempt to infringe this testimony of him out of any personall experience which i have of him , or of his wayes : but shall onely referre the reader for his satisfaction , both concerning the man , and the testimony given to him , to this ensuing letter , written by one well enough known to himselfe , to a speciall friend of his about the citie . dearly beloved and much honored in christ , grace , mercy and peace be multiplied to you , and to as many as are enabled by the power of god to look towards sion . as i was hastily perusing a book writ in mr. edwards name , among sever all letters therein contained , i found one written by a person with whom i have more then ordinary acquaintance . in which letter the glory of god , the pure institutions of the lord jesus , with the saints practises , are maliciously abused , as also your selfe not a little concern'd . in consideration of the which , i was not a little prest in my own spirit , neither indeed could i refrain , but needs must declare unto you the person that wrote it ( as he himself acknowledgeth , ) not knowing but it might seem strange unto you , and remain as a burden upon your spirit , that the author of so many falshoods , and , as they appeare to me , palpable untruths , should be ( by such a one as mr. edwards ) termed a man religious , and cordially affected to the parliament . but not to withhold you any longer , his name is josiah ricraft , the same man in whose name the reply to your answer was printed , the which whether he did indite , or no , i will not affirm , only i may thinke , but it matters not much whether he or another did indite it , only this i am confident of , hee is a man so far from ▪ being religious , and cordially affected to the parliament , ( as mr. edwards would make the world beleeve , that i shall , and am able by evident testimonies , yea and by that knowledge i in particular have of him , perspicuously make it appeare ( and had done before this , had i not been extraordinarily prevented ) that he is an enemy to the parliament , state , and kingdome , by concealing , countenancing , & bearing correspondency with such as endevour nothing more then the overthrow of religion & the subjects liberty . at present i shal speak no more cōcerning him , then what i my self distinctly know of him : after he had taken the solemne league & covenant , he did inviolation thereof , conceal a colonell the which came out of the kings army , and from him did receive the kings picture . this colonell not daring to goe abroad in the day time . all this he did declare in my hearing ; nay , during the time this colonell was in town , he did carry , as now hee doth , a great correspondency with one mr. roberts , minister , being one in fellowship with him , whose life this colonel would have taken from him , if i be not misinformed , the which as i am credibly informed , had mr. roberts known of the colonels being in town , he would have endeavoured the hanging of him , & that not without cause , for former discourtesies received from him , too tedious to relate . i shal deferre the naming of him until i am called to testifie what i here declare , the which i hope wil be suddenly . and though he was wisht & desired to discover him , pressing the covenant upon him , yet would he not : i shall at the present , as not desiring to be tedious , present you with one passage more ; it is concerning one who being to goe to oxford with an intent to take up arms for the king , he wel knowing he was a malignant , and would not take the covenant , yet him did he furnish with mony to carry him to oxford , and hath since taken up armes . this i shall through the help of god make appeare to be really true , and will declare his name and where he lived , the which i now forbeare in regard of some friends whom i am not willing in the least to grieve ; were not the glory of god and the kingdoms good interessed in it , i should not at present have mentioned any thing of this nature , but not knowing any way more tending to the vindicatiou of both , i take this method . truly , should i declare unto you how contrary his carriage and conversation is to the gospels rule , i am confident it would sadden the spirits of conscientious men , and cause admiration in those who professe themselves to be followers of our lord jesus . i do assure you , the lord hath so carried on my soul with divine contemplation , and sweet communion & fellowship with the father and the son , that all the unreasonable dealings i have received from him , have not made any impression upon my spirit : only this the righteous god knoweth hath been no small saddening to my spirit , to see his aversnesse of spirit to those who are of his own judgement . but these miscarriages i shall let passe untill a more convenient season , desiring with all my soule the lord may through the glorious and rich discoveries of himselfe powerfully upon his spirit , cause him to be ashamed of his folly , and to own his weaknesses , that the lord may yet be honored by him , and his soule comforted in the day of our lord jesus . and now that god who hath made such rich discoveries , and glorious manifestations of his tender love to you in the son of his love , strengthen you throughout , that you may be able to stand , and withstand all the opposition you shall meet withall from any generation of men , and that you may increase with the increasings of god . and this is the request of him who is your brother in the rock christ , g. c. as to the contents of the letter written to mr. edw. by that religious person , and so cordially affected to the parliament ( as you have heard ) how notoriously false are a great part of them ! as first , that mr. kiffen , and some others , upon their disputes with dr. featley , m. seaman , m. calamy , m. porter , and others , gave out to their members that they had the better , and that m. calamy durst not dispute with them . both which are disavowed by the persons charged , and with certainty of knowledge that the reporter can never prove either the one or the other of them . 2. the said letter affirmeth , that m. kiffen was left out from that disputation which was held and to be held with m. calamy ▪ &c. whereas it is so far from the truth , that he was left out from this disputation , that earnestly soliciting an exemption from that ingagement , his motion herein was absolutely refused by the rest that were to dispute . 3. he affirmeth , that the said m. kiffen was put to do the drudgery , to fetch up members scattered to and fro in the countrey &c. this also is as false as falshood it selfe can make a report to be : the said m. kiffen never stir'd a foot out of the citie , further then his own house all the while . 4. this religious person in the same letter saith , that not onely m kiffen , but others also of them did the like good service ( as hobson the taylor ) in their places . this again is so far from truth , or likelihood of truth , that this hobson he speaks of , with mr. kiffen , were ( amongst others ) made choyce of by their friends to attend the disputation , and to manage their interest in the controversie against their opposers , and therefore could not doe that , besides which there was nothing possible to be done by them , or any others , that can now save the pen of religious i. r. from the pollution and reproach of a false pen . 5. the said letter advanceth yet further in her way of folly , and affirmeth , that one of their members , whose name is palmer , being recovered , came into their conventicle house , and there before many people said , that physitians left her as they found her . this is a very emphaticall untruth ; the woman never making use of any physitian all the time of her sicknesse . 6. this letter ( which seems to be gangrena's chiefe favourite among all her fellowes ) being loath that any other should carry away the whetstone from her , pleads for this prize with such an argument , which makes all the quaint inventions , and bold fictions , and daring relations in the book besides , to give place and yeeld the crown . this is a story of a woman that was to be rebaptized ; a story which makes the tale of gargantua and don quixote with his windmils , to look like gospels in comparison of it . it is pitie the relator should either eat or drink , till either he hath proved the truth , or else confessed the untruth of it . this letter boasts what mischiefe it could doe yet further , as when it saith , many such heathenish & atheisticall passages with basenes , i could relate of this man & some of his members , &c. it is very likely that what ever you can do in this kind , you must doe it with basenes , or else let it alone . but indeed you have givē the world a very full account of your great ability to relate what heathenish and atheisticall passages you please of any man . hee that can report and avouch the last mentioned story for a truth , may be confident that his forehead will not fail him in any adventure of impudence whatsoever . for a conclusion , i shal only point you to some few more spots which appeare here and there in the body of the gangrene , which plainly shew the very vitals & inward parts of it to be pestilentially infected ; & i make no question but ere long you will see the whole body of it full of such spots all over , which will plainly bewray the constitution of it to be the poyson of dragons , and gall of asps . pag. 93. he affirms , that severall sectaries went early to bristoll ( he means since the retaking of it by the parliament , ) and into wales also ; instancing in two , with an &c. viz. one m. bacon , and m. symonds : this m. symonds professeth , that since the recovery of bristoll , he came not neer either bristoll or wales by fourty miles . but if m. edw. comes within fourty miles of the truth , he makes a commendable voyage . i beleeve hee came not neer it by twice fourty , when p. 100. speaking of great livings , hee calleth them , a thing which their presbyterian souls abhorre . the tenor of the passage is this : he chargeth m. peters , frequently to have preached in citie and countrey , that were it not for livings of two or three hundred pounds a yeare , there would be no difference between the presbyterians and the independents . and glossing this text , addeth , wickedly and maliciously insinuating unto the people , as if presbyterian ministers opposed the way of independency because of great livings , a thing ovr sovls abhor . if his meaning be , that the practice here gently insinuated against them ▪ viz. that the opposing the way of independency because of great livings , is a thing which their soul abhors , not the great livings themselves , i say no more but this ; i wish the rule were as true as the exception : i. that the opposing the way of independency for great livings , were as truly the abhorring of presbyterian souls , as the great livings themselves are not . pag. 70. he affirms , that one of lilborns eyes was pvt ovt by a pike in the street , immediatly upon his letter comming forth against mr. prynne and the assembly . by the way it seems he hath forfeited his honour of being lieutenant-colonel , by the high crime of writing a letter against m. prynne and the assembly ; yea and all his interest in the honor and gentry of his house and family . but had not m. edw. a great beam in his own eye , he might easily have seen , that neither of lilborns eyes are put out . he is able to see and read twenty untruths and ten in m. edw. book , with the worst of them . that which he reports of him , p. 96. that hee is reported to bee one , who is a player at cards , either is a false report it self , or at least a report of a report which is false , and so little better . the man protested that he never plaid a game at cards since his coming to london . the rest of the aspersives in the same retinue , as that he is reported to be a man of a loose life , prophaning the lords day in sports , one who will sit long with company at wine and tipling , &c. are grapes growing upon the same thorn . in the page last named , he talks of one thomas moore of lincolnshire , a great sectary and manifestarian : i beleeve m. edw. himself is the greatest manifestarian under heaven . there is no man hath manifested that weaknes of judgement , that strength of malice against the saints , which he hath done . and for thomas moore of lincolnshire , a sectary of that magnitude which hee imports , i no more beleeve there is any such man , then i doe that there is any such woman at brasteed in kent , as he speaks of , p. 88. 89. that is a preacher , and that with others breaks bread in her order . mr. saltmarsh in his late booke affirms , that the contrary is knowne to himselfe and all the towne . pag. 128. he talks of bishop hall , or one of his chaplains , as holding far smaller errors then i ( he means chiefly , in the point of justification , as appears by the context . ) but that i hold any errors in justification , greater then himself , yea or any so great by many degrees , who yet ( i make no question ) presumes himself as orthodox in the point as either the bishop he speaks of , or any of his chaplains , will be a thousand times said , before once prov'd , either by himself , or all his party of godly orthodox presbyteriall ministers . pag. 8. of his dedicatory epistle , his forehead serves him to abuse the honorable houses of parliament with this loud untruth , that there are eleven meetings , at least , of sectaries , in one parish in this citie . what shall be given unto thee ▪ or what shall be done unto thee , thou false tongue ? sharp arrowes of the mighty , and coales of juniper a . setting aside the presbyterian meetings , confident i am , that he cannot find the one halfe of that number he speaks of , of meetings of all other sectaries , in any parish whatsoever in the citie . but this saying of his needs not be melancholy for want of company ; it hath brethren enough in the iniquitie of it . and because the pages of his book are not large enough to contain the shameless untruths he hath a minde to utter , he quarters them here and there in the margent of it . you shall find two together in the margent of the second and third pages of his preface . here first he saith , that overton an independent book-seller boasted that an answer ( to his antapologie ) was in the presse . whereas he onely said ( and that without boasting ) that there was an answer to it entred in their hall-booke , and ready for the presse . 2. he addes iniquitie to iniquitie ; and saith , that eaton an independent , milliner , said the same words , who yet spake not so much ; for he neither said that it was in the presse , nor yet that it was entred into the hall book . and who should report , that some of john goodwins church reported , that some of his church-members preached for him , because he was answering the antapologie ; i believe he no more knoweth , then declareth . and why he calls eaton an independent milliner , i believe , if he were called to an account , he could give none ; but like unto himselfe , i. either some vagrant and loose report that he was so ; or some poore reason , 89 degrees of logique latitude from a sufficient proofe or demonstration . but the saying is , tractant fabrilia fabri . pag. 33. speaking of mr burroughs opinion formerly mentioned , which he makes the 150 error in his catalogue , he brands it with this false mark in his margin : this is an error destructive to the power of civill magistrates , and safety of common-wealths , in divers cases . the truth is , that the opinion , 1. is no error , but a truth : and 2. so farre from being an error destructive , either to the power of civill magistrates , or safety of common-wealths , in any case or cases whatsoever ; that it is a truth of a soveraigne importance , both for the support and strengthning of the magistrates power ; as also for the safety of common-wealths . the smoak of the exception made against it , was before scattered . and if he were examined how he came by that story , p. 104. concerning mr kiffen ( formerly spoken of ) viz. that he should tell the church , that he would relate the whole matter ( concerning the womans recovery that had been anointed ) i feare he could hardly prove , that he came honestly by it . the man assures me , that there was no such undertaking , nor relation made by him at all . reader , i have ( for the present ) given thee onely a taste of mr edwards grapes : yet sufficient ( i presume ) to convince thee , that his vine , is of the vine of sodom , and of the fields of gomorrah ; his grapes , grapes of gall ; his clusters bitter ; his wine , the poyson of dragons , and the cruell venome of aspes a . i professe truly , that i have not read one quarter of the book , as yet ; nor know whether i shall ever care to read it thorough or no . the far greatest part of the particulars detected , were observ'd by others , and presented unto me . a few daies ( i make no question ) will give thee more light , wherewith to comprehend his darknesse . by that time the boughs of his tree are a little more withered , they will be broken off : the women will come , and set them on fire b . the day will come , and is even at the dore , when there will be scarce one stone left upon another of all this false building , which will not be pull'd downe by the hand of truth . and when the servants of god shall have had the opportunitie to wash off that dirt and filth which mr. edwards hath now cast upon them , gangraena will be found a strumpet , yea and of the race & lineage of that great scarlet whore , which corrupteth the earth with her fornication c . the cretians are alwaies lyers , evill beasts ▪ slow bullies . this testimony is true : wherefore rebuke them sharply , that they may be sound in the faith d . i trust that this brief answer , will contribute a proportionable influence toward this blessed effect upon mr edwards , and helpe to make him more sound both in faith , and manners also . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a85389e-360 a luk. 22. 31. sect. 2. sect. 3. a antap. p. sect. 4. sect. 5. a gen. 9. 25. b 1 sam. 22. 9 , 10. sect. 6. luke 10. sect. 7. sect. 8. sect. 9. sect. 10. sect. 11. sect. 12. dan. 5. 19. a si oriantur dissensiones & schismata in ecclesiâ , in culpâ sunt qui falsam sidem defendūt , non qui impugnāt : nec refert utri sint multitudine superiores . ecclesia namque nec judicat ipsa secundū multitudinem , nec judicanda est secundū majoris numeri consensū , sed secundū manifestam veritatem in sacris scripturis expressam , musc. loc. tit. de eccle. sect. 9. b antapol . p. 117. sect. 13. a see his preface , p. 4. a luk. 4. 9 , 10● . sect. 14. a 1 cor. 4. 18. b verse 19. c amos 5. 18. gangrena . pref. p. 2. sect. 15. a joh. 8. 40. b 2 tim. 2. 12. sect. 16. compassion . samaritan . p. 4 a quod in omnibus vocandi rationibus deus peccatori , quid debeat non modo oftendit , sed & omni invitato , vocato det posse illud praestare , & salvari , si velit : adeo ut si non salvatur is , qui generalissimâ tantum ratione invitatus est , sit prorfus inexcusabilis coràm deo. id expresse docet paulus . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( inquit ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} manifestum factum est in ipsis , ( gentilibus scilicet ) deus enim manifestum fecit , &c. ita utinexcusabiles ipsi sint . at certè , si , etsi maximè voluissent , non potuissent , fuissent excusabiles , &c. paulus testardus , eiren. p. 91. thesi 121. sect. 17. sect. 18. a pag. 128. he talkes of farre smaller errors in justification then mine . sect. 19. a the reader for his further satisfaction about calvins iudgement in this controversie , is earnestly desired to peruse the 11th chapter , as also the 5 , 6 , & 7. sections of the fift chapter of the first part of my treatise of justification . a deut 19. 15. 2 cor. 13. 1. &c. one affirmative testimony is more valid in law , then many negative . sect. 20. sect. 21. sect. 22. sect. 23. a mat. 13. 47 ▪ 48. a rom. 4. 15. b 1 john 3. 4. the proverb saith , is is an evill bird that defileth his own nest . a joh. 18. 28. sect. 24. sect. 25. sect. 26. sect. 27. a h saith , that this & others of mr. burroughs principles and rules about toleration , will bee found both unsound and weak , fit to take women and weak persons with , but not to satisfie any scholar . the truth is , that many principles , the more sound & strong they are , are like to prove the lesse satisfactory to such scholars as he . engag'd men are ususually more offended at a truth , then at an error wth opposeth them in their way . sect. 29. sect. 30. sect. 31. sect. 32. sect. 33. a psal 120. 3 , 4 sect. 34. sect. 35. a deut. 32. 32 , 33. b isa. 27. 11. c revel. 19. 2. d tit. 1. 12 , 13. a discovrse concerning puritans tending to a vindication of those, who unjustly suffer by the mistake, abuse, and misapplication of that name. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a48309 of text r212712 in the english short title catalog (wing l1876). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 146 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 34 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a48309 wing l1876 estc r212712 12392537 ocm 12392537 61021 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48309) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61021) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 766:27) a discovrse concerning puritans tending to a vindication of those, who unjustly suffer by the mistake, abuse, and misapplication of that name. parker, henry, 1604-1652. ley, john, 1583-1662. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a48309 of text r212712 in the english short title catalog (wing l1876). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread [6], 3-63 p. printed for robert bostock, [london] : 1641. variously attributed to henry parker and john ley. cf. jordan, w.k. men of substance, p. 69; halkett & laing suppl. reproduction of original in huntington library. eng puritans. a48309 r212712 (wing l1876). civilwar no a discourse concerning puritans. tending to a vindication of those who unjustly suffer by the mistake, abuse, and misapplication of that nam [no entry] 1641 26886 21 15 0 0 0 0 13 c the rate of 13 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-01 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-02 john latta sampled and proofread 2005-02 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning puritans . tending to a vindication of those who unjustly suffer by the mistake , abuse , and misapplication of that name . vivere qui vultis sanctè , discedite româ , omnia cùm liceant , non licet esse bonum . mantuan . you who would guiltlesse be , depart from hence , no guilt is here so blacke as innocence . the second edition , much inlarged , augmented and corrected by the authour . london , printed for robert bostock , 1641. to the puritan reader . if thou art such a one as doest confesse thy selfe a puritan ( as the name is now unjustly used ) thou wilt soon find in this short tract , that my indevour has been to do thee right , but not to humor thee ; to take off unjust aspersions from thee , but not to insinuate by flattery into thee . an ambidexter i would not be in two contrary factions , by seeking to please both ; neither would i be a neuter , if i could avoyde it : but in things where i dissent , i will depart from both sides , rather then from that which i think the truth . i shall not use the word puritan factiously , as if all puritans were alike to be imbraced : but cautiously , as if that difference and contrariety might happen amongst puritans in england , as did once amongst the disciples in our saviours owne schoole . charitie urges me not to censure any man in particular for an hypocrite , yet wisdome teaches me not to free all men in generall from being hypocrites : such charity may well stand and agree together with such wisdome , and such wisdome with such charitie ; but if i doe not at all scruple any mans integrity , this necessitates me not therefore to ascribe an infallibilitie : for if i can easily yeeld to hope and think well of all puritans , yet it ought not to be expected that i should yeeld my consent to all puritans in all things . i am free and open in declaring my opinion aswell against the rigorous and necessary urging of presbyteriall as episcopall government in all places , and at all times ; but i relye upon proofe not meere phansie , and my proofe being enervated by my clearer judgement , it will be a pleasure to me to retract . variety of opinion and understanding ( some say ) has place amongst those glorious spirits in heaven , amongst whom no other kind of discord can have place : and even the apostles themselves though inspired by god , yet when they spake not by inspiration , they were not desirous to lead captive the beliefes of other lesse-knowing men . heat and acrimony amongst such as dissent in opinion has done more mischiefe in the church of god , then any thing that i can imagine besides ; and certainly 't is not the meere love of truth , but some other sinister respect that workes thus violently in the minds of men so naturally dimme , as we all are . for why should i burn with indignation against another , because he is lesse understanding then i am ? or why should i so farre presume upon my selfe , if i think i am liable to errour , as well as other men ? can the meere love of knowledge make me abhorre ignorance more in another then in my selfe ? or make me arrogate more freedome from errour to my selfe , then to other men ? sure , truth has more affinity with charity then so , and charitie with humility . for my part , i doe acknowledge my selfe not onely subject to much ignorance , but to much scandalous offence too ; my greatest enemie shall not charge me of more staines , then i will my selfe ; i will confesse my self the chiefe of sinners , and that not only in regard of sinnes past , as perhaps saint paul did , but also in regard of my present sinfull condition ; but certainely since sin and ignorance are such things as cleave radically to all men , and must be accounted sortis humanae ; therefore to beare mutuall reproofes , and to forbeare all bitternesse and censure , ought to be professed as vertues , and to be accounted sortis christianae . and since i my selfe notwithstanding all my other defects ▪ do not glory in them , but confesse them to my shame , and since i doe not maligne the graces of god in rigid puritans , but rather rejoyce thereat , i am persuaded , howsoever i appeare to the eye of god , no man living ought to despise me , much lesse to expunge me out of the booke of life . if god does not give me so much grace as he does thee , wilt thou say , he gives me not that which he accounts sufficient ? and if i am not in this or that so unblameable as thou art , wilt thou say , my grace generally is not equall with thine ? if thou exceedest me in all other vertues , and yet art by me exceeded in humility alone , wilt thou upon this proceede to censure me ? puritans have not made themselves more inexcusable by any thing then by condemning other men : for though they see not as god sees , yet they will often undertake to judge as god ought to judge : and in this they have not been greater enemies to themselves , then to the whole state of pietie and religion . it does not appeare to the contrary , but that the pharisee in the gospell , of whom our saviour put his case , might be a good man , and his cause might be good to praise god for not leaving him to the scandalous excesses of some other men : but when he would undertake to judge particular men , more righteous perhaps in gods sight then himself , we know what judgement he received himselfe . and if it be not lawfull to censure a publican , much lesse will i censure a pharisee , except alone in that particular wherein hee is himselfe censorious , and wherein our saviour christ condemnes him : that doctrine therefore which i shall recommend to all men both pharisees and publicans , is , to be charitable , to be humble : to be charitable , because they are christians , to be humble , because they are men . the times have lately received a very great and wonderfull change , almost equall to that of edw. the 6. and yet still there is the same use of charitie , as was before . lukewarmnesse that odious and nauseous bane of religion was hitherto decored and guilded over with the title of moderation : but now we are in danger to suffer in the other extreme , for moderation that blessed pacificall vertue is now likely to be as much debased , and defaced under the title of lukewarmnesse : both wayes charity is violated , both wayes piety is opposed : and what difference is it to satan , if he prevaile , by which extreme he does prevaile , whether he sinks us by a tempest , or confound us by a calme ? for a remedy of all mischiefes then let us embrace charitie , and that charitie may dwell amongst us , let us all learne to censure , despise , and abhorre our selves more , and other men lesse hereafter . a discourse concerning puritans . itis a common maxim amongst politicians , that a state is maintained by accusations , but ruined by calumnies : and therefore ( saies marquesse malvezzi ) happy shall the subjects be of that wise prince , which countenances accusations , and checks calumnies : for the suffering of accusations to goe lesse in repute , and calumnies to get footing , hath beene the encrease of manslaughter , and the continuance of enmity in all ages . many beleeve that nothing which is done would be knowne , if this meanes of dispersing privie calumnious speeches were not used , whereas little is knowne because it is used : for falshood constantly affirmed for truth , sometimes deceives , and when it does not , but is knowne to be falshood , yet it forces to some suspension of judgement , and makes us yeeld some way even to that which we beleeve not . this is most apparant at this day in this kingdome in the case of puritans , for did accusation and legall processe take place , few crimes would be proved against puritans , and did not malicious calumny prevaile , as few men would be proved puritans , whereas now nothing is so monstrous , which is not branded upon puritans , and no man is so innocent as to escape that brand . so great also is the audacity of those which lacerate the fames of puritans , and with so much confidence doe they vent their obloquies , that they which know the falsity thereof , and easily perceive that the same aspersions are more truely due to the autors and raisers of them , yet they are dazeled , and driven to some doubtfull admittance thereof . neither could this audacity be so prevalent amongst the vulgar , but that scholars , and the greatest of the clergy are now become the most injurious detesters and depravers of puritans , having taken up in pulpits and presses , almost as vile and scurrilous a licence of fiction and detraction , as is usuall in play houses , taverns , and bordelloes . some men divide generally all protestants into puritans , and antipuritans , but i shall admit of subdivisions in both , for all men are not alike , which either affect or disaffect , either puritans or antipuritans . antipuritans i shall thus divide . some antipuritans are so tearmed , because they are no puritans , but such i dislike not , for i my self am neither the one nor other , i neither merit the name of puritan , neither doe i hate them so as to professe my self an antipuritan . others are accounted antipuritans , because they are of the romish religion , and so professe themselves , but their enmity is but a due antipathy , and as a necessary consequence of their religion , and such i take no notice of , i think puritans expect no other from them . others again there are which are very averse from some puritanicall tenets , and hold puritans in very many things erroneous , but yet they mean well themselves , and bear no hatred to the persons of puritans , they allow puritans sound in the most and weightiest matters of faith , they hold dissent in disputable things no ground of malice , and they attribute no infallibility to themselves in those things wherein they dissent : from these men i am but little removed . the worst sort of antipuritans , and they which ought only to be so called , are they which bitterly hate and persecute many good men under the name of puritans , and many goods things in those which are puritans , whose antipathy is to mens persons , as well as opinions , & in opinions those which are sound , as well as those which are erroneous . these are the antipuritans which i shall now strive to detect , whom i now hold to be of great number and power in the state at this day , whom we may account the chiefest causers , and procurers of all those mischiefs and plagues which now incumber both church and commonwealth , and to be guilty of all those crimes , which falsly they charge upon puritans , being therein like caesars enemies which therefore onely hated him , because they had deserved hatred from him . by such antipuritans is all love to goodnesse and zeal to the protestant religion , and all hatred of vice , and dislike of popish superstition , brought into contempt . for as they admit all true of puritans which papists object against protestants , so they account all protestants almost ( besides their own faction ) puritans . by such is the religion of the scots made ridiculous ; by such is the amitie of the two nations , and therein the honour and safety of the king , his crown , and progeny endangered . by such is calvin , & the reformers of our religion for hearkning therein to calvin , traduced , and another reformation attempted ; by such is antiquity preferred to obscure scripture , uniformity in ceremonies to the disadvantage of unity in hearts ; by such is the outside and walls of religion trimmed and decored , whilst the soule thereof is neglected and defaced ; by such is the kings heart stolne from his subjects , and the subjects estranged from the king : by such is the name of royalty pretended whilst a papall hierarchy onely is intended ; by such is dissention nourished in the state , that they may fish in troubled waters : by such is truth in other men styled faction , and faction in themselves styled truth ; by such are innovations preached and printed for necessary points , whilst necessary doctrines in other men are prohibited . in the power of such it now remaines to teach and publish all things consonant to their owne ends , and to quash and silence all gainsayers , and either to promote or detrude all suiters for preferment at their discretion being absolutely possessed of presses , pulpits , and the eares of great men ; by such are many good men reviled and oppressed for their constancie to the true religion , whilst many factious , semipopish dunces are unduly preferred every where for neutrality in religion , or some worse innovation ; by such are puritans made as sinks and sewers to unlode and discharge their own filth into , whilst their black railing tongues expume nothing against puritans , but what is true of themselves . these things ( if i am not deceived ) will appeare in this ensuing discourse . in all ages true religion hath been odious amongst heathens , and true devotion amongst sensualists , judaisme appeared to painims meer superstition : christianity seemed to the jewes grosse blasphemie : and now amongst christians protestantisme is nothing else but heresie : and amongst protestants zeal is misnamed puritanisme ; but in this word puritanisme is a greater mystery of defamation then ever was before , it may well be called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it is a word of depravation , fit onely for these times , wherein the shine of the gospel is at the brightest , and the malice of satan at the highest . this word sprung up almost with the reformation , no sooner had the woman brought forth , but the serpent pursued her to devoure her issue , and she being fled into the wildernesse , this streame of infamy was spued forth after her to overtake her . the bishop of downe in ireland , in his visitation speech 1638. endeavours to make it credited , that puritans have increased since the reformation by degrees , both in number and malice : but the contrary is most apparently true . dissent in ecclesiasticall policie about ceremonies and other smaller matters , being not of the substance of religion , first gave occasion to raise this reprochfull word puritan in the church : but since that time mens minds being better satisfied , and peace being more firmly setled about those indifferent things , the more few puritans remayned , and the more moderately those few became inclined , the more furiously their enemies raged against them , bastwick , prin , and burton , the onely men which law can take hold of , are names now as horrid in the world , as garnet , faux , ravilliack . precisians have now wonne the scene from iesuites : poysoning of emperours , massacring of provinces , blowing up of parliaments are all now grown into oblivion , and drown'd in the stories of ceremony-haters . howsoever as amongst antipuritans , so amongst puritans ( it must be confessed ) there , are some differences to be observed . some puritans think all puritans alike to be loved , and all antipuritans alike to be hated , but sure there is truer affinity in minde between some which are puritans , and some which are not , then between some puritans and others , or some of the contrary opinion and others . paul unconverted equally opposes peter as simon magus does , and in regard of this joynt opposition , both are unanimous , but even in this opposition both have their opposite ends . magus opposes maliciously for ambition and lucres sake , but paul ignorantly seeking thereby the same gods honour whom peter serves in a truer way . therefore in regard of the mayne end , there is more unity and consent betwixt paul the persecuter , and peter the persecuted , then betwixt paul and magus , though both persecuters of the same cause . the like is now visible in england , for every man which is an antipuritan is not so for the same reasons , some have more of malice , others are more ignorant , some are pestilent engineers , and through the sides of puritans knowingly stab at purity it self , others are but engines misimployed , or by their owne blind zeal misled , and these perhaps whilst they persecute gods children , imagine they doe god a gratefull service therein . in samaria , from an unkindly mixture of israelites and syrians , a strange heterogeneous of-spring different in religion from both did arise ; and the like is now in england , nay , it may be said here ( as it was in constantines dayes ) there are almost as many religions as opinions , and as many opinions as men . papists have their differences , protestants theirs , therefore needs must there be many more differences where papists and protestants live so confusedly blended together . for examples sake , how many differences have we even about indifferent ceremonies ; and that meerly amongst protestants ? some men loath ceremonies out of antipathy to popery , which too superstitiously extols them ; others againe admire them for antiquities sake , which before popery innocently ( yea , and perhaps profitably for those infant times of the gospel ) used them . these two sorts of men , though different are not dangerous . again , some men are thought to disrelish ceremonies out of stomack to that authority which commands them ; but if there be any such , i thinke they are very few , and scarce visible to the eye of man . others on the contrary give reverence to them for poperies sake , which depends so much upon them ; and i feare there are many such amongst us . again , some men stand devoted to ceremonies , as they are the lightest things of the law : like the tythers of mint and annis in the gospel , embracing them instead of weightier matters , and none are more unmercifull then these to scrupulous minded men . others in the mean while account all things of the same moment , both great and small , pretending to spie some faults , and some truths on either side , and therefore they hold it indifferent to assent to either , or dissent from either in any point whatever . but the wisest sort conceive there may be errours on both sides , but not alike grosse and pernicious , and therefore such eschew the wrong , and apply themselves to the right in either side , yet neither honour , nor despise either side alike . and these instances shew that all men doe not professe , or condemne puritanisme alike , or from the same ends , and yet in the chaos of this countrey , as things now stand . frigida cum calidis pugnant , humentia siccis . mollia cum duris , sine pondere habentia ●ondus . i could wish therefore that all well meaning men would take notice of these things , and affect by reason , not passion ; for since some good men are puritans , and not all , and since some ill men are puritans , and not all , this ought not to be a rule of love and hatred in all cases alike . that which is most objected to puritans , is fury , faction , and hypocrisie : if i see these in a man reputed no puritan , yet to me he is a puritan : and if i see not these in a man reputed a puritan , as to me he is no puritan . if gracchus be invective against sedition , i censure him by his actions , not by his words , and if cato be accused of mutiny , i censure him by himselfe , not by his accusers , i condemne none meerely because condemned by others ; for it is usuall for the wolfe to sit on the bench and condemne the lambe at bar , for that which is most proper to the wolfe most unnaturall to the lambe , and yet this proves the wolfe the more a wolfe , and the lambe the more a lambe . i cannot but professe it , there is nothing more scandalizes me at this time , then to see puritans being so few in number , so despicable in condition , so harmelesse in example , so blamelesse in opinion , yet sentenced and condemned in judgement , as if they were the greatest incendaries , and the only innovators in the christian world . doctor heylin a violent pamphleter against puritans , calls burton the great dictator of puritans , and the law hath past upon him with great severity , yet burtons crime was that he wrote against altar-worship , and it was adjudged that his style was seditious . it is not manifest that his intention was seditious therein , and if it was so , it is manifest that he was most vaine and absurd therein as our state is now establisht , and as our king is generally revered , they which pretend great danger to the king likely to ensue out of such paper machinations as these , may have three mischievous ends therein . first , that they may be thought the only solicitous men of the kings safetie . secondly , that they may disparage the common peoples loyaltie . thirdly , that they may crush their adverse puritanicall party ; but , it is thought , they which pretend most danger hereby to the king : doe least believe themselves , and therefore they doe spin that affection and division out of the sufferings of burton , &c. which his attempts could never have effected . my lord of canterbury in all his invectives against puritanisme , ever made fury and turbulence the ground of all his hatred and enmity against it , and yet let the whole world judge if the earth ever brought forth any thing more furious and turbulent then himself . at the same time whilst he adjudges torture to that incendiary burton , &c. for writing a pamphlet against altars , &c. he himself is busie in sowing the dragons teeth ( i may say the great red dragons teeth ) all over england scotland , and ireland , and putting all the three kingdomes into a posture of warre , that like earthen vessels they may be dashed to peeces by conflicting one against the other . to whom can it be credible that burtons quill should blow the flame of warre amongst nations so combined in spirituall , carnall and politicall consanguinity ; under the protection of so peacefull a prince , in such halcyonean dayes of tranquillitie , when even my lord of canterbury himself with all his ill accomplices at home , and spanish , italian , french confederates abroad , ought for ever to be admired for his prevalence in that vast stupendious dis-service ? howsoever , as the times lately were , we beheld sedition grievously upbraided , and punished in burton by my lord of canterbury , and that old verse applyed as a proverbe : quis tulerit gracchos de seditione loquentes ? but it s no wonder that burton should be an incendiary in that mouth , wherein calvin was a knave , good god , could he think the reformed religion any thing else but knavery , when he calls gods most sanctified and best inspired instrument of reformation knave ? because god doth not now work by miracles , as he did in the first plantation of the gospel ; are not therefore his works as sacred , and his instruments as venerable ? and since the redemption , what work hath god ever performed more noble , and for ever to be exalted then the reformation ? for what was that worke , but a reviving of lost salvation , and a new restauration of the buried gospel amongst us ? and in that glorious worke who was anoynted by god for a more egregious charge then calvin ? is it not therefore the same sin in kinde if not in degree so to conspurcate and defile this blessed messenger of this blessed tidings with impure termes of obloquie , as it was to ascribe the worke of our saviour to beelzebub ? o the execrable gall of that breast , and venome of that tongue , which through the sides of calvin did strive to defame the most gracious services of calvin , nay that most pure and fiery spirit of god himselfe , which enabled calvin for those services ! needs must he hate and prosecute all puritans whatsoever , and reject and disrelish all things whatsoever in puritans , which is so maliciously bent against calvin himselfe meerly because puritans have him in so high esteeme , for that holy spirits sake which rested so aboundantly upon him . but let us a little further search into the mysterious abuse , and misapplication of this word puritan . those whom we ordinarily call puritans are men of strict life , and precise opinions , which cannot be hated for any thing but their singularity in zeale and pietie , and certainly the number of such men is too small , and their condition too low , and dejected : but they which are the devils chief artificers in abusing this word when they please , can so stretch and extend the same , that scarce any civill honest protestant which is hearty and true to his religion can avoid the aspersion of it , and when they list againe , they can so shrink it into a narrow sense , that it sha●l seem to be aimed at none but monstrous abominable heretickes and miscreants . thus by its latitude it strikes generally , by its contraction it pierces deeply , by its confused application it deceives invisibly . small scruples intitle mee to the name of puritan , and then the name of puritan intitles me further to all mischiefe whatsoever . the scots rise up against episcopacie , it is questioned by some , whether they so rise up , for the good of religion , or for the overthrow of wholsome discipline . answer is soone made , that episcopacie cannot be unpleasing to any but puritans , there is no opinion can smell stronger of puritanisme , then that of a church parity , and of puritans what good can be expected ? but the scots also desire redresse in other grievances , and here their intention is againe questioned . answer is as soone made again . that the scots being declared open puritans , they must needs be enemies to monarchicall government , and that no redresse can ever satisfie them , but such as shall debase royall dignity , and establish a popular rule among them . but some of the scots in some actions doe very much misdemeane themselves , and here it 's thought by some , that this ought not to redound to the prejudice , or blame of the whole nation : but strait the antipuritan steps in againe with answer to the former purpose , that the same faction which makes them all puritans , makes them all mutiners , and that there is no trust to be given , nor favour shewed to any whose very religion is disobedience . other the like examples may be instanced in . parliaments of late in england have beene jealous of religion , this laudable zeale made them at first come into contempt as puritanicall , and then the imputation of puritanisme made this laudable zeale contemptible ; and so by degrees , as any thing else might be charged upon puritans , as disobedience , and disaffection to monarchy , so nothing could be charged but proceeding from puritanisme . some scrupulous opinions make say , brooke , &c. puritans , puritanisme inferres them mutiners , mutinie makes all that they can doe or say , all that they forbear to doe , or say , it makes their very thoughts wicked and perverse . thus wee see what a confused imposture there is in this infamous terme of puritan : but wee will yet further evidence by plaine instance how broad the devils net is in the vast application of this word , and how deep his pit is by its abominable sence , and the nature of its importance , that we may the better discover that net which intangles so many , and shun that pit which ingulphs so sure . puritans ( as i said before ) were at first ecclesiasticall only , so called because they did not like a pompous or ceremonious kinde of discipline in the church like unto the romish : but now it is come about , that by a new enlargement of the name , the world is full of nothing else but puritans , for besides the puritan in church policie , there are now added puritans in religion , puritans in state , and puritans in morality . by this means whole kingdomes are familiarly upbraided with this sinne of puritanisme : as for example , all in scotland which wish well to the covenant , though some papists , some courtiers , and almost all the whole body without exception have now declared themselves for it , yet all these are manifest puritans . so also in england , all the commons in parliament , and almost all the ancient impartiall temporall nobility , and all such as favour and rellish the late proceedings of both the houses , which is the maine body of the realme , papists , prelates and courtiers excepted , nay , and its likely all scotland , and more then halfe ireland , all these are puritans . they which deprave this great councell of the kingdome , suggest to the king that the major part is gull'd and dorde by the puritan party ; but this is only because they are ashamed to speake it out openly in grosse termes , that all the major and better part in the court of parliament is puritanicall . but this suggestion is utterly false and impossible , for such as the major part in parliament is , such are those that chose them and sent them thither , and such are those that now approve their actions there , and both in the elections of parliament men , and in the consultations of parliament affaires , the kings party is as wise , cautious and vigilant ( if not more ) as the other party , and no subtilty could circumvent or cheat them out of their votes , if the puritans were so small and inconsiderable a side , as now they make them . no man of what capacity soever can admit this ; it is to all undeniable , that the blame of a parliament , is the blame of a whole kingdome . but i returne to my ecclesiasticall puritan . though it be true that ecclesiasticall puritans are fewer now , then heretofore they have been , yet it is as true that ecclesiasticall puritanisme is made a larger thing by farre then it was , being now spread abroad like a net to ensnare the more , as our many late additions and innovations testifie , which have crept into the church ( as may be feared ) for the vexation and molestation of such men , as were not disquieted with former ceremonies . it is generally suspected , that our prelates have aimed at two things in the novelties which they have lately induced into the church ; first , the suppression of those which are enemies to their pride , avarice , and ambition , by them tearmed puritans : secondly , their owne further ease , promotion , and advantage . both these ends seeme to be leveld at in sanctifying the altar , and unsanctifying the lords day , in advancing auricular confession , and corporall penances by externall mortifications , and crying downe lecturing , and preaching ; for if we marke it , these new doctrines doe not onely serve to terrifie and scandalize tender consciences , and thereby to deprive , and silence many painfull good ministers , and to scare away into forreign plantations whole troups of laymen , and to inwrap the rest in opposition ▪ but each of these doctrines besides hath a further reach in it of benefit to the clergie . the communion table hath lately gained a new name , a new nature , a new posture , a new worship that emperours and kings may be brought againe to take notice how far the persons and offices of priests excell in sanctity the persons and offices of princes . theodosius within one hundred yeares after prelacie began to arrogate to it selfe , was presently taught this lesson , for taking his seat in the chancell according to the easterne and ancient fashion , a deacon was sent to him in great state , to let him understand that none but men in holy orders might presume to set their feet on that sacred ground . this was then the bishops law , not the emperours , nor knowne in any other of his dominions , but italy onely ; but sure it was fit discretion , that much should be ascribed by bishops to that place , from which they were to derive much , and which would be sure to repay their homage with so great an advantage of homage back againe . preaching is now also grown too burthensome , and the lords day to priests according to that sanctity which puritans allow it , it requires too much praying , preaching , singing , which are not onely to them tedious , but also apt means to encrease , and foment puritanisme amongst the people . auricular confession also is a godly devise to bring the laity into subjection , and to make the people bow before the power of the keyes , and it may aptly force the consciences of kings themselves to feare the scourges of gowned men . adde lastly mr. wats his bodily mortification to mr. sparrows confession , and then laymen will be soone inured againe to finde out the fittest penances , especially praesbyteris , & aeris advolvi , and so in time their purses , their bodies , their consciences shall all bee made sensible of the spirituall scepter of priests . it s no great wonder then if our court divines , and their dependents doe what they can to draw us neerer dayly towards popery , under shew of antiquity , uniformity and charity , for ( without all doubt ) of all religions , popery is the most beneficiall to priests , most tyrannous to laymen . neither is it strange that they pretend so much zeale and devotion to the kings crowne and prerogative , as things now stand in england , as if none truly affected the same but themselves , for its cleare , that they cannot subject the people but by the king , nor the king without the people : and so long as they stand possessed of the kings good opinion , no man shall have power to confute them . king iames is a great instance for antipuritans , and a great prop to the episcopall cause , it s alleadged of him that hee hated puritans for their hatred to episcopacie , and loved episcopacie for its amity to monarchie : his aphorisme was , no bishop , no king : let us therefore appeale from king iames in their words to king iames in his owne . in his preface before his basilicon doron his words are : the style of puritans properly belongs to that vile sect of the anabaptists , onely called the family of love , such were browne , penry , howbeit there are others which participate too much with anabaptists contemning civill magistrates , &c. it is onely this sort of men which i wish my sonne to punish in case they refuse to obey law , and cease not to stirre up rebellion . but i protest upon mine honour , i meane it not generally of all preachers or others , which like better of the single forme of policie in our church of scotland , then of the many ceremonies in the church of england , which are perswaded that bishops smell of a papall supremacie , that surplices , caps , &c. are outward badges of popish errour . no , i am so farre from being contentious in these indifferent things , that i doe equally love and honour the learned and grave of either opinion , it can no wayes become mee to pronounce sentence so lightly in so old a controversie . since wee all agree in grounds , the bitternesse of men in such questions doth but trouble the peace of the church , and give advantage to papists by our division . these were the golden words of that peacefull , just prince upon his second thoughts : ô that they were now duly pondred , and taken to peeces word for word ! ô that they were esteemed , and understood in their owne weight amongst us , that they might reconcile our present differences , and that the same peace which followed him to his glorious urne , might still blesse these our times ! ò how contrary are these mild words to the unnaturall suggestions of antipuritans ! such as daily accuse all good men for precisians , and all precise men for puritans , and all puritans for the onely firebrands of the world , thus aiming the king against his subjects , and by consequence raising subjects against the king ; puritans here are described both what they are , and what they are not , the king had been misinterpreted before , writing generally of puritans , now to avoid all mistake , he expresses himselfe plainely and definitely . a puritan positively in king iames his sense , is he which imitates anabaptists in rebellion , turbulence and opposition to law , and such are liable to law ; but negatively a puritan in the acception of king iames , is not he which dislikes episcopacie , or the ceremonious discipline of england . this king iames protests upon his honour , though to his great dishonour he be now often cited to the contrary . as for those which rellish not bishops and ceremonies or the english policie , wishes them to be at peace only with those of the opposite opinion , hee himselfe vowing equall love and honour to the grave , and learned of either side , and not taking upon him to be a judge in so old and difficult a controversie ; he onely like a sweet arbitrator perswades both parties to peace and amity . i wish our bishops would now stand to this arbitration , i wish they would neither condemne the scots discipline , nor urge the english ; i wish they would put difference betweene seditious and scrupulous puritans , and not inferre the one out of the other ; i wish they would either disclaime king iames as a manifest favourer of puritans , or else imitate him in the same definition , and opinion of them . king iames further takes notice , that the reformation in scotland was far more disorderly , then in england , denmark &c. whilst the mayne affaires there were unduly carried by popular tumults , and by some fiery-spirited ministers , which having gotten the guiding of the multitude , and finding the relish of government sweet , did fancie to themselves a democratick forme of policy , wherein they were likely to be tribuni plebis . that the crown might be disincombred of these usurping ring-leaders , the king advises the prince to entertaine and advance godly , learned , and modest ministers , promoting them to bishopricks , but restrayning them heedfully from pride , ambition , and avarice . these things then are hence observable . first , scotland differs from england in turbulent ministers : secondly , this is imputed to the iniquity of the times , not to puritanisme , as if by nature the scots were more inclining to puritanisme then other nations . thirdly , notwithstanding that iniquity of those times , there was a number sufficient of worthy ministers fit for preferrement . fourthly , king iames erects bishops sees in scotland for peculiar reasons , and therefore he speaks not of denmarke , &c. lastly , notwithstanding that peculiar reason , he advises the prince to be indifferently at warre with both extreams alike , as well to represse papall bishops , as to curbe proud puritans . for ( sayes the king ) the naturall sicknesses which have ever troubled and beene the decay of all churches since the beginning changing the candlesticke from one to another , have beene pride , ambition , and avarice : and these wrought the overthrow of the romish church in divers countreys . king iames knew well how apt churchmen had ever beene to abuse their power and pompe , what enemies the high-priests had beene to our saviour , and what a tyranny bishops had erected over all christendome ever since constantine almost , and therefore though he dislikes a democracie in the church , ( as hee had reason ) yet hee so limits and circumscribes his bishops both in power and honour , that they might be as sensible of their chaines and fetters , as of their miters and crosiers . i wish king iames had particularly signified what bonds and bounds hee thought fit to prefixe to episcopacie , to preserve it from corruption , and what his opinion was of a prelacie so active in secular affaires as ours is now in england , and how it would have pleased him to see a metropolitan amongst protestants almost a rivall to the french cardinall . the world , in my opinion , hath little reason to doate upon a gowned empire , wee have all smarted long enough under it , men of meane birth commonly beare preferment with little moderation , and their breeding having beene soft and effeminate , in their malice and cruelty they neerest of all approach to the nature of women : and by the advantage of learning they extend their power , and win upon others more then they ought . when the church was at first under heathen , or jewish governours , which sought as enemies to ruine it , not as fathers to protect it , they which were within could not live in peace and unity without some politicall bonds , so at that time there was a necessity of some coercive power within , besides that which was without . the world is now unsatisfied what kinde of power that was , whether episcopall or presbyteriall , or what episcopacy , or presbytery was in those dayes . yet me thinks what government so ever then was , it is not necessarily precedentary to us now . the episcopall faction at this day takes advantage by the abuses of the presbyteriall , and the presbyteriall by the episcopall , and most men thinke either the one power or the other necessary , and some more favour the episcopall as k. iames , some the presbyteriall as m. calvin ; but sure the presbyteriall is lesse offensive then the episcopall , and yet neither the one nor other of necessity . kings may grant usuram quandam jurisdictionis either to bishops or elders , but the jurisdiction it selfe is their owne property , from which they ought not to depart , nor can without wrong to their charge committed to them . for the power which god gives the prince , is not given for his use alone , but for the peoples benefit , so that since he cannot let it fall to decay without making it insufficient for good and entire government which is mischievous to the people , he cannot justly lessen it at all . and it is manifest that except one supreme head be alone in all causes as well ecclesiasticall as civill , humane nature must needs be destitute of those remedies which are necessary for its conservation , since power cannot be divided , but it must be diminished to him which suffers that division , and being diminished it proves insufficient . all confesse some government necessary for men in holy orders , to whom the power of the keyes belongs , but some account princes but as meere temporall or lay persons , and therefore conclude against their authority over sacred ecclesiasticall persons as incompetent , especially in cases meerely ecclesiasticall . for this cause spirituall governours have ever beene in the church to whom some have attributed a divine right depending from none but god , and subordinate to none but god , but this hath beene controverted by others , and no little debate and strife hath followed hereupon . but it seemes to me , that princes do receive from god a spirituall unction , whereby not onely their persons are dignified , and their hearts prepared and enlarged with divine graces fit for rule ; but their functions also innobled and sanctified above any other whatsoever , and higher advanced then the sense of laick or secular will beare . to princes an assistance of counsell is requisite in spirituall as in civill affaires , but that , that counsaile ought to bee composed onely of persons ecclesiasticall , or that those persons ought to bee invested with all those ensignes of honour and authority which our bishops now claime as of divine right , seemes not necessary . clergy-men are not alwayes the most knowing in all ecclesiasticall cases , neither are they at all indifferent and impartiall , in many which concerne their owne honour and profit , ( as the world feeles to his regret ) therefore for jurisdiction they are not the most competent . but be they of what use soever , they may still remaine subordinate , and at the princes election , and admitted of ad consilium solum , not ad consensum , and it had beene happy for all christians these many hundred yeares by past if they had not been further hearkned to . the sacerdotall function is not at all disparaged by this subordination , for whether the order of princes be more sacred then that of bishops , or not , it is all one to priests , for an obedience they owe , and must pay , be it to the one order or the other . our bishops at this day stand much upon their divine right of jurisdiction , and they refer their style to the providence of god immediatly , not to the grace of the king : and though in words they acknowledge a supremacie of power to remain to the king ; yet indeed i thinke they mean rather a priority of order . whatsoever supremacie they meane , if it be not such as makes them meerely subordinate , and dependent , so that the king may limit , alter , or extinguish their jurisdiction , as far as he may to his civill judges , they derogate much from his kingly office . bishops for their claime of jurisdiction ought to prove that they alone did exercise it over all in all causes from our saviours dayes , till the entrance of christian princes : and that being cleared , they must further prove , that those times also are leading , and precedentary to ours . in both these their proofes are lame , especially in the latter ; for neither is the power of the keyes the same thing as iurisdiction , nor is jurisdiction now as it was in the apostles dayes , nor is the state of the times now the same as then . in those dayes either christians were to implead one another before infidel magistrats whatsoever the case were , criminall or civill , spirituall or temporall , or else they were to erect some tribunall in the church , or else they were to await no justice at all : and because some judicature within the church was most fit , therfore christ himselfe according to the exigence of those times , did endow his church with a divine oeconomy , which was partly miraculous , and of use then but not now . the spirit of god did then internally incite such and such men at such times to reside and preside in such & such places ; and some of the apostles at some times could judge by inspiration without proofs and allegations , and could execute sentence of death or other spirituall punishment upon secret hypocrites , not intrenching upon temporall authority , but in these times this discipline is uselesse , and therefore decayed . whatsoever the offence then was , what injury or trespasse soever betwixt brother and brother , the onely remedy was dic ecclesiae , and yet that precept serves as strong for temporall as spirituall trespasses , so that it cannot be enforced now to continue , unlesse wee meane to drowne all temporall authority . as for the extent also of spirituall power in those dayes , i will onely cite a learned politician of the popish religion : who admitting ( it seemed ) that the keyes of heaven were given to saint peter alone , and his successours , and not to all bishops and ministers whatsoever thus proceeds . by the keyes given to s. peter many holy fathers mean , the one of knowledge , and the other of power , and that that power ought not to be understood universally , but only concerning the kingdome of heaven which is spirituall : for the civill , royall , and temporall power is expresly forbidden him by christ . even so that also of knowledge , it is not to be understood of naturall , politike , or morall things , but as saint paul saith , of christs mysteries only . wherefore in matters of faith ecclesiasticall authority may approve , and secular cannot condemne , but in matters of policy what all the prelates in the world approve , temporall authority may condemne . it is a great wrong to pretend , because christ hath given saint peter the cognizance and power of the kingdome , and forbidden him the earthly , contrary to this precept , to extend spirituall things to temporall . saint augustine often saith , that grace doth not destroy any thing in nature , but leaveth her all her owne ; adding moreover divine perfection . the temporality hath of its owne nature , power to forbid all things repugnant to publike quietnesse and honesty ; and christ came not to take away this authority from magistrates , he onely addes power to his ministers in matters of faith , not knowne by nature , but revelation . for ought wee know , this power of opening or shutting heaven , of binding and loosing sinnes was miraculous , and so but temporary : but admit it in this catholike writers sense , yet we plainly see , it is no prejudice at all to limit secular princes thereby . the same learned papist writes : that the easterne and westerne churches continued in unity and charity for the space of nine hundred yeares after christ , and this peace was easily kept , because the supreme power was then in the canons , to which all churches acknowledged themselves equally subject . ecclesiasticall discipline was then severely maintained in each country by its owne prelates , not arbitrarily , but absolutely according to canonicall rigour , none of them intermedling in anothers government . no pope of rome did pretend to conferre benefices in other bishops diocesses , or to get money out of others by way of dispensations and buls : but when rome began to shake off all subjection to canons , then notwithstanding any ancient order of the fathers , councels , or apostles themselves , in stead of her ancient primacy she brought in an absolute dominion , free from any law or canon , and this made the division . neither could any re-union bee brought to passe within these 700 yeares , because this abuse which caused the division is not remedied . whilst the union held , saint pauls doctrine was joyntly observed , that every one should be subject to princes , no man pretended to be free from punishment . nay , and after the division , the same opinion remained , that every christian in temporall businesses is subject to the prince . and nothing is more temporall then offence , because nothing is more contrary to the spirit . amongst the greeks also it is still held that bishops ought to judge what opinion is sound , what hereticall , but to punish those of hurtfull opinions belongeth to the secular . the state of venice , as well as other catholike kingdomes , walks between two extreams , betweene protestants , which have no other ayme but to diminish ecclesiasticall authority , and the court of rome which hath no other aime , but to encrease it , and to make the temporall her servant . those of the court of rome , making use of religion for worldly ends and respects under a spirituall pretense , but with an ambitious end and desire of worldly wealth and honour would free themselves from obedience due to the prince , and take away the love and reverence due by the people to draw it to themselves . to bring these things to passe , they have newly invented a doctrine that talks of nothing but ecclesiasticall greatnesse , liberty , immunity , and jurisdiction . this doctrine was unheard of , till about the year 1300 , then it began to be written scatteringly in some books , but till 1400 , there were not written above two bookes which treated of nothing else ; after this such writers increased a little , but after 1560 , there were scarce any bookes printed in italy , but in diminution of secular authority and exaltation of the ecclesiasticall : and now the people have scarce any other bookes to read , nor have the confessors any other doctrine , or need any other learning . hence comes this perverse opinion , that magistracy is a humane invention , and to be obeyed for policy onely , not for conscience : but that every intimation of ecclesiasticall persons is equivolent to a divine precept ; there want not in italy , pious , learned men which hold the contrary , but they are not suffered to write , or print . neither are forraine books permitted , or ancient authours left ungelded of all which serves for temporall authority : as appears by a book printed 1607 , called index expurgatorius : and clement the eighth in 1595 , published a rule in his index , that all catholike writers bookes since 1515 , might be corrected not only by expunging but also by interlining , and this hath beene practised though not publikely above seventy yeares . thus we finde the court of romes , but not the authors meaning , and finally , wee are sure to have no book true . i have hitherto cited this egregious politician , for these purposes . first , that we may see how easie it is for clergie-men to wrest all authority out of the temporalties hands , if princes will be so easie to be hood-winkt , and deluded by them , and to resigne their judgements to them in such cases as concern their profit and advancement . secondly , that we may take notice how far the learnedst of papists themselves doe discover , and detect the errours and tyranny of the court of rome , and that mysticall way of deceiving , whereby all hope of remedy is cut off . i observe this also the rather because our prelates in england at this day assume to themselves almost as vast and unquestionable a power of stifling and repressing all adverse disputes , and of authorizing and publishing all arguments whatsoever favouring their cause , as the court of rome does . thirdly , that i might produce the same author against himselfe in those points wherein he taxes protestants . wee will yeeld that for the space of nine hundred yeeres the see of rome did not usurpe over other sees , but did acknowledge equall subjection to the canons , and that the division and separation of the easterne churches happened when rome arrogated above canons ; but withall we must have it yeelded to us , that those canons had been composed only by clergy-men , and that in too much favour of clergy-men , and too much abridgement of temporall rights and priviledges , and that they did concerne matters more then meerely spirituall , and speculative , and things known by meere revelation . so that though one prelate did not usurpe over another , yet all prelates had usurped over the laity from the times of constantine almost . it is true , the church had bishops before in its times of persecution , but of what power or pompe ? it is said of calvin , that in regard of his sway in geneva , he wanted nothing but the name of bishop ; and it may be as truly said of the bishops before constantine , that they wanted all but the name . the power of bishops before the installment of christian princes , was rather like that of arbitrators then of judges , and that held in all cases alike , civill and spirituall , but in case of disobedience they did not intrench so farre upon the lay power , as to inflict any pecuniary , or corporall punishment , but they did deny the sacrament , and eject delinquents out of the congregation , and this was then an abscission from christ , being done clave non errante : that is , whilst god did inspire ( according to his promise ) a miraculous power of binding and loosing infallibly . the priestly function was then an office , not a jurisdiction , of sacred dignity , not power : but the function of a prince was ever sacred both for honour and power , for dignity and command . constantine the great was the first prince which tooke upon him the care and protection of the church , after that it had suffered contempt and poverty for 300 yeares : and now did even that authority and protection cease , and devolve into his hands , which the poore persecuted bishops had but feebly managed before ; but such was the extraordinary indulgence of this pious emperour , as well to religious persons , as to religion it selfe , that taking little notice what the church had gain'd by him as its head and governour , he heaped up greater titles and honors upon bishops , archbishops , patriarchs , and popes , as if some other supreme ruler more sacred and competent then himselfe were necessary . neverthelesse it is thought , that this was as poyson poured into the church , and not balme , for from that very time clergy-men began to be more glorious , but lesse gracious , more rich outwardly , but more poore , and vile inwardly . within a little space after constantine there was just cause of complaint that excessive honours had corrupted the church , and that religion had prospered better in former times , when it had wooden chalices and golden priests , then now , when it had golden chalices , but wooden priests . it is remarkable also , that soon after constantine the temporall power being too much restrained , and abased , and the spirituall as much inlarged and exalted , the whole face of christendome began to be imbroyled with wars , and poysoned with heresies , so that the historians of those times have almost nothing else to write of but the forcible investing and devesting by armes of such bishops and patriarchs , and of the oppositions of such and such councels and synods , and of the appeals , iars , schismes , excommunications , and commotions of such , and such priests , and monks . nay , such were the ill effects of those ages , which were certainly more zealous then politike , that they cannot yet be wholly rectified , and purged in these our latter times , which are growne too too contrary , being more politike then zealous : thus did the church fare for 900. yeares till the romane bishops began to empire above all , and then did the greatest part of the clergie themselves , especially east from italy , make their departure and separation . neither did the romish vice-god after this great rent and division in the world hang his head for shame , or seeke any re-union by letting fall his pompous , painted plumes , but audaciates himselfe rather to mount higher yet , and to detrude the western emperour quite out of the bounds of italy . and in this , his industry failes him not , for after much bloud-shed in many cruell conflicts hee gaines in italy a temporall , and in all europe besides a spirituall monarchy , making a triple mitre shine as gloriously upon the seven-hilled city , as the diadem had done before . during his warres with the emperour of germany , he had other contestations also with england , and some other potentates at sometimes , but all dismaid him not , only once he was heard to say , it was time for him to compound with the dragon , that he might crush the lesser adders at his pleasure . yet after this even this holy tyranny growes too insolent and insufferable , and so conspires its owne dissolution , so that many countries in the north-west parts lying more remote from rome , quite revolt from her allegeance , and protest against her . amongst those other countries also lesse distant , which still in words confesse her supremacy , her reigne is now but little more then precarious : venice regards not buls and anathemaes , france disdaines a yonger brothers benediction , and spaine being honoured with the title of the popes eldest son , confesses him a father but imployes him as a chaplain , gives verball , but reapes reall honours by him . augustus having cashiered an unworthy commander , gave him leave to say , that hee had cashiered augustus : and so the popes great sonnes shake off his yoke by degrees , but conceale it , and give him leave to doe the like . it is now very good policy in the pope , not to pretend to temporall things as they stand in ordine , or have relation to spirituall things , but rather to relinquish his right to spirituall things , as they stand in order to temporall : it is eminent wisedome in him to forbeare threatning , roaring , cursing , and sending his ridiculous epigrams , out of his owne territories : as he was wont to doe : nay , his very last refuge of sending forth his poysoning and stabbing ministers cannot remaine in season much longer . but to returne to our learned statesman : as hee justly taxes the court of rome , so hee unjustly taxes protestants of the contrary extreme , and this will appeare out of his owne words . for he grants , first that the secular magistrates have nothing diminished of their authority by christs comming ▪ and it is cleare that princes were absolute governours of the church before christ both in spirituall and temporall cases . in the next place he yeelds , that the power and knowledge of clergy-men , called the power of the keyes , is no other but such as christ infuses in meere supernaturall things , knowne onely by faith and revelation , not by any physicall , or ethicall principles ; but it is easily proved by us , that such power can extend to no proper jurisdiction at all in humane affaires , but is a meere speculative notion , and such we deny not . thirdly , hee yeelds that in jurisdiction there bee three things distinct . first , matter of law . secondly , matter of fact . thirdly , matter of execution : whereby retribution is made to every fact according to law . the first of these , and that in spirituall cases alone being tryable by clergy-men only . admit this and nothing followes , but that things meerely spirituall , are best knowne to spirituall persons , there is no power here concluded . as for example . in case of heresie , that i hold such an opinion , must appeare by witnesses and proofes , and herein all kindes of witnesses besides clergy-men are competent . next , that this opinion is hereticall , requires the judgement of ecclesiasticall persons , but it does not follow , if they be the fittest judges herein , that they must bee the supreme judges herein , and not as well dependent and subordinate as our civill judges are in common actions . but in the last place , that such an hereticall opinion , so dangerous and pestilent to the church and common-wealth ought to bee corrected or eradicated by such coercive force , and the raising of that force whereby it is to be punished , is in the judgement , and in the power of the supreme magistrate , for two magistrates cannot have a supreme power of the same sword . either the secular must command the ecclesiasticall , or the ecclesiasticall must command the secular , as to coercive power , or a worse confusion then either must needs follow . so then , it is the execution of justice alone , which is essentiall to the supreme governour , matter of law requires a counsellour , matter of fact a witnesse , matter of execution alone intimates a prince , and that principality cannot bee divided betwixt two persons of a severall nature . from hence then it appeares plainely that no catholike differing from the court of rome ascribes more to clergy-men , then this first poynt of adjudging according to the law of god in things divine ; and this implyes rather a dependent , then an independent condition in the judge : and in this protestants joyne with full consent . but all this while i finde my selfe in a digression : my scope is not to proove that protestants doe attribute sufficient to priests , it lies upon mee to prove that they attribute too much to them , and herein i am to undertake not onely the episcopall , but the presbyteriall side also , not onely protestant prelates , but even master calvin that great antiprelate also . divines have much trumped the world hitherto in not setting forth the true bounds and limits of ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , but if i mistake not , the first power ( which they claime as most essentiall ) they take to be the power of the keyes , though they define not certainly , what that is , whether a power , or office ; or to whom belonging , or of what extent , and continuance . the second power which they insist upon , as next issuing out of the power of the keyes , is in excommunication , ordination of ministers , exposition of scriptures , &c. the third and more remote kinde of causes wherein they challenge an ecclesiasticall power , is of such as concerne matrimonie , testaments , heresies , fasts , tythes , and immunities of clergy-men , &c. and further doubtlesse they would proceed , but that these savour so much of the temporality , and discover their trumpery ; but i have said , if in all these cases clergy-men are necessarily more knowing and impartiall then all men else , there is necessity of their counsell to declare matter of law , but not of their consent in applying coercive , and forcible remedies for the execution of law . i have said also that clergie-men being as well citizens of the common-wealth , as sonnes of the church , and these cases importing as well perturbance of the state , annoyance to the church , that there can be but one head which ought to have command over both , and in both . it is manifest also that many cases are partly temporall , and partly spirituall , and that scarce any is so temporall , but that it relates in some order to spirituall things , or any so spirituall , but that it hath some relation to temporall things , so that the true subject of ecclesiasticall and civill justice cannot rightly be divided . further , also it is as manifest that where any doubt , strife , or uncertainty may arise betweene one jurisdiction and another , neither acknowledging any supreme power of decision , no assured peace can continue , and by consequence no stability or permanent subsistence to either , is to be expected . it is naturall therefore to be inferred , that either the temporall or the ecclesiasticall magistrate must be in all cases absolutely predominant , and that since the ecclesiasticall ought not by christs owne command , therefore the temporall ought , as hath been further proved by sundry arguments , and scripture proofes alledged out of this famous politician . so much of the temporall power , and its necessary supremacie : my endevour shall be now to maintain that no ecclesiasticall power is at all necessary in meere ecclesiasticall persons . master calvin according to the popish grounds maintains , that spirituall jurisdiction differs from temporall , and is not incompatible but assistant thereto , because it proposes not the same ends , but severall , which by severall meanes may be the better compassed . but the spirituall magistrate ( as i conceive ) can propose no other end , then what the secular ought to ayme at , for either the prince ought to have no care at all of the honour of god , and the good of men , and that which is the prime meane of both , true religion , or else his ends must bee the same which the prelate aymes at , viz. to vindicate religion by removing and correcting scandalous offenders . secondly , to preserve the innocent from contagion by the separation of open offenders . thirdly , to prevent further obduration , or to procure the amendment of such as have transgressed by wholsome chastisement . this is beyond all controversie , as also that the person and power of a prince , are as sacred to effect these ends , as the prelates : and certainly , god did not so sanctifie their persons and offices for any lesse end . and therefore in ancient times holy bishops did preach and recommend nothing more to princes then the care of religion , though proud prelates now arrogate this onely to themselves , and though it be still apparant , that no offence is so spirituall , but that it is a civill evill , as well as a blemish to religion : forsomuch as true religion is the foundation of a state . and this could not bee , neither were princes answerable to god for the corruption of religion , if god had not given them a supreme power , and that effectuall to bring all offenders whatsoever to confession , satisfaction and contrition , or to expell them the congregation by themselves , or their surrogates . master calvin instances in adultery and drunkennesse , &c. and sayes , that the temporall power punishes these by externall force , and for publicke examples sake , as it concernes the state , but the spirituall iudge punishes them without force internally for the amendment of the delinquent . hee might as well have named swearing , lying , stealing , murdering , and all sinnes whatsoever , and so have made all men twice punishable , and the ecclesiasticall courts as full of businesse as the temporall to the great vexation of the state , and danger of division , out of this false ground onely that temporall power hath not a competence for the amendment of offenders , or for the care of religion , but only for the satisfaction of wronged parties , and the expedition of civill justice . this is a way to erect regnum in regno , and to maintaine such concurrent jurisdictions , as cannot possibly stand together , for all being subject to sin and offence , as well the spirituall as temporal , either the one or other must go unquestioned , and this may produce division , or else both ; and that will cause most certaine confusion . both sides here seem strangely puzled , the rigidest of the episcopall faction allow princes a coercive power over priests , and prelats , where they performe not what their duty is in their functions or jurisdictions , and this power requires a higher power of summoning , arraigning , and legally trying them : and yet the moderatest of the presbyteriall faction would have princes questionable , tryable and punishable by the spiritualty . this is a grosse confusion , which will appeare to be so more plainly in the sequel ; when it is more fully cleared , that to princes alone god has precisely committed utramque tubam , and utramque tabulam too , as our reverend andrews says . 't is true , as calvin alleadges , princes are sons of the church , they are in it , not above it : the word intending the church universall , such as is both militant and triumphant ; past , present , and future ; for that hath no other head but christ : to that all princes and priests are equally sons : but take church for such or such a nationall , locall church , and then the prince is head thereof , under christ ; and the clergy are part of his charge , and under his protection . the same man also may in diverse respects be both father and son to the same man without confusion of relations . a king , a bishop may heare the word , and receive the sacrament from an inferiour minister ; a subject may be naturall father to his prince , and in this respect , a filiall subjection is due from the superiour , and so a king may referre his own case to his chancellor , yet this destroyes not the greater , higher , and more generall superiority in other things , at other times . and to me it seemes that even in the exercise of the keys , the priest officiates under the prince , as the chancellour does in matters of law , even when the kings own case lyes in iudgement before him , and when perhaps hee makes a decree against his own master , and contrary to his owne masters private advertisement : and yet the king is not properly either lawyer or theologue , though both are actuated , and organized as it were , by the soule like commanding , over-seeing , and over-ruling of his more sublime and divine power . herein the priest also may learne a limitation from the lawyer , for though the iudge bee bound to pronounce right iudgement against his owne master , yet this holds not in all cases alike ; because of his limitted condition , for in criminall cases such as concerne the safety of the kings own person , or the royall dignity of his calling , therein iudgement must be utterly mute . and therefore it is a weake argument of master calvin , though it be his best : when he inferres a necessity of an ecclesiasticall iudicature from hence , because else the prince himselfe wanting punishment , should escape free : for the reason is the same in matters of law ; the king is not questionable , or responsible , for personall crimes , and yet this is held no politicall mischiefe . besides if the prince shall not go unquestioned , or undisciplined by the spirituall , yet the supreme spirituall magistrate must , and this is an equall , if not a greater mischiefe : for both cannot be equally lyable to the judgement of each other . neither is it to much purpose that the example of bishop ambrose so harshly , so unreverendly treating pious penitent theodosius , is so confidently cited always by either faction episcopall and presbyteriall ; for though the name of ambrose be great , yet i will crave leave to speake as an advocate against him in the name of the emperour theodosius . reverend sir , you take upon you to be a iudge over me , and to condemne me of a bloudy massacre committed unjustly at thessalonica , and being so condemned , you proceed against mee with your ghostly punishment , subjecting me to your ecclesiasticall severity : but i pray consider what mischiefes may follow hereupon ; if emperours may be punishable by bishops , then common equity requires that emperors have the benefit of a faire hearing and arraignment , or else were their condition more miserable than the condition of the meanest vassals : for as princes actions are more inscrutible , and their counsels more mysticall ; so also their ends are for the most part more lyable to envy , and mis-interpretation : it is not possible for you without due discussion , inquiry , and examination of impartiall witnesses , perfectly to understand all the true circumstances , reasons , and grounds of this my fa●● ; and without this understanding it is not possible for you to pronounce a just censure against me . it 's necessary then that some tribunall be prepared for you , and some barre for me , that upright sentence may passe , and that iustice may be done understandingly , and upon this it must needs follow that i am your meere subject , and must lay down my scepter to bow my selfe under your crosier , till this difficulty be fully ended . admit this also , and then you may use what procrastination you please in this intricate decision ; or in the like manner question mee of all other enormities , and scandalous deviations , which rumor , envy , or treason it selfe forges against me ; and thus shall i have no leasure to judge other men , it will be scarce possible for me to acquit my selfe in judgment from other men : that power which god hath put into my hands for the protection of so many myriads , will be utterly disabled by that higher power which is put into your hands over me . by the same reason also that i am to render an account to you in this place , i am to render the like to all your superiours , equals , or inferiours in other jurisdictions , of all sins whatsoever , whether reall , or imputable , ecclesiasticall , or civil , so that no end is like to be of my tryals , purgations , or condemnations . you will say , my crime is sensibly evident ; if i would deny this , you could not prove it so ; and if i would not confesse this , you could not force me , for it was a politicall thing , and farre off acted : and my meere confession can give to you no iurisdiction . but be my crime as manifest in it selfe as the disobedience of saul was to samuel , or as davids murther was to nathan , or as salomons incontinence was to all the world , or as manasses his idolatry : yet why should i suffer more than they ? what new coercive , vindicative authority have priests gained over princes by christs gospel , which the iewish priests never used , claymed , or heard of ? if excommunication , &c. be now necessary , sure it was in use before christ ; and then we should have heard of some kings excommunicated , &c. by some priests ; for if the temporall power had not of its owne nature a competent force and habitude to restraine all things repugnant to publique quietnesse , and honesty , a spirituall power was necessary ; and yet we read of none such . but if there was a sufficiency in the temporall power , as is most manifestly apparent ; then wee cannot imagine that christ came to take away any of this authority from magistrates : but that power which he added , was rather an excellency of grace and vertue in matters of faith , and illumination . it cannot be alleadged by you , that that punishment is meerely spirituall , and so no politicall evill : for as it puts other men into the condition of publicans , heathens , and worse ; so it further yet degrades , disables and oppresses princes . how shall he be honored and obeyed as the vicegerent of god in all causes , whom the layty sees ejected out of the church , and expelled out of the communion of the faithfull , as a rotten contagious member ? how shall hee be held more sacred than a priest , whom the sentence , interdiction , and the confounding blow of a priests spiritual execration , shall render so contemptible , miserable and abominable in the eyes of the world ? saint paul being accused in matters of doctrine , made his appeale to a wicked heathen emperor ; and yet now a christian godly emperor being accused by any church-man , no appeale is allowed , though in meere civill accusations . s. peters keyes did either induce some new power not before known unto the world , or not ; if it did , then our saviours gospell came into the world to the detriment of civill government , which is contrary to religion , and all reason : and if no new addition of power were imported , then tiberius himselfe , though a heathen , and tyrant , remained as absolute as before ; and yet in his time there was more necessity of an ecclesiasticall judicature , than is now . but you will say , if princes be not subject to some chastisement , then some scandals must passe unremediable . not so , for here god is the revenger , and strikes often , as he did vzziah ; but if not , yet either the temporall or spirituall governour must passe unchastiz'd , which is all one ; for two supreames cannot be , nor no entire government without some supremacy , nor no supremacy without immunity , and exemption from judgement . the perpetuall conflicts and contestations betweene princes and prelats , which are likely to ensue , will soone cleere this ; that either princes must at last submit to the tribunals of church-men , and raigne at their discretion ; or else church-men must submit to them : for both tribunals cannot stand compatible . for my part , i excuse so grave a father as you are , of ambition herein ; and therfore i am the lesse cautious in summiting my selfe at this time : but i conceive this doctrine may bee the ground of dangerous consequences to others , and therefore i desire it may not from mee passe into a president for the time to come . let not proud prelates from this my voluntary humiliation , arrogate to themselves as if it had been due ; or derogate thereby from the more sacred order of princes : neither let princes from this particular learne to yeeld to any spirituall monarchy whatsoever . my beliefe is , that the prince is the head , the fountaine , the soule of all power whatsoever , spirituall , or temporall ; wherein he ought not to indure at all any kind of rivality of ecclesiasticall persons , nor can admit of any diminution in any part of his iurisdiction , without offence to god , dammage to his charge , and danger to himselfe . so much for theodosius , and so much for that iurisdiction , which is due to prelats : i should now speake of the exercise thereof , as it is granted by the favour of princes , but this is a very tender point . it seemes to some , that princes ought not to incumber men in sacred orders , in any kind of judicature which is not purely spirituall ; nor that prelates can accept of any temporall imployment whatsoever , without dishonour to their orders , and neglect to their cure of soules : and yet now none so greedy of such imployment . a sacred place may not be put to secular uses , that 's prophane : but a sacred person may , that 's honorable . a bishoprick now adayes is but a writ of ease , to dismisse from preaching , and attending gods service ; whereby the man is preferred from the church to the court , from the altar to some tribunall , from gods spirituall to the kings temporall affaires . in the high commission , at the councell table , in the star-chamber , and the chequer , church-men are now more active than in their own consistories , and yet their ambition further aimes ( as 't is said ) to the chancery , court of requests , &c. which could not chuse but redound to the scandall of religion , the obstruction of iustice , and vexation of the subject : if there were not learned and skilful men enough in policy and law to serve the king , unlesse divinity were deprived of some of her followers , there were some seeming umbrage why the king might borrow of god ; as in the shady times of popery it was usuall : when all learning was as it were ingrossed by the clergy , and purloyned from the layty : but when the clouds of universall ignorance are now dispelled as well from the layty as clergy ; now the clergy are not so necessary in temporall affaires , unlesse we judge it fit that gods more holy offices should be neglected , for this purpose only , that the kings meaner businesse may be worse administred . the functions of divines are too sacred for any secular person to officiate , and therefore it should seeme , their persons also ought to be too sacred for secular functions ; for it seemes prepostrous , that it should be thought an honour to priests to relinquish spirituall , and adhere to temporall imployments . nic. machiavell did observe that christian religion had long since falne to the ground , had not the regular strictnesse of poore inferiour priests and pryers held , and propped up the reputation of it in the world , as much as the pride and luxury of the great cardinals , and princelike bishops , did strive to sinke and demolish it . the same observation holds true amongst us protestants at this day , for the more our prelats enjoy , the more still they seeke ; and all our three kingdomes are growne so sick of their pride , injustice , and pragmaticall faction , that scarce any remedy but bloud-letting can cure them . wee finde in scripture the most high and holy offices of religion performed by princes , even amongst , and above the greatest of priests ; but wee scarce finde any instance at all where priests intermedled with any state affaires , either above , or under princes : and yet with us now the imploying and entrusting of clergy-men in temporall businesses , is held as politique as it was in times of popery : although no time could ever justly boast of that use . but to passe over temporall businesses , how violent have our bishops beene in their own canons about ceremonies , and indifferencies ? and what disturbance hath that violence produced ? they strive as for the beauty and glory of religion , to bring in the same formes of liturgy , the same posture of the communion-table , the same gesture at the communion , &c. in all our three dominions ; as if uniformity were always beautifull : and yet we see , all men are created with severall faces , voyces , and complexions , without any deformity to the universe . 't is not externall variety , but internall dissention , which spoyles the harmony of religion ; and dissention is more nourished by the harshnesse of pastors over their flocks , especially over the weake ones in scruples , than by permitting various rites and formes in the externall worship of god . certainly , liberty and variety in indifferences , and ceremonies is more favour'd in scripture , than any universall similitude , or rigorous force whatsoever , over the perplexed , anxious consciences of weake men . we see in scotland , where there is no ceremonies , they enjoy that uniformity without contention , which we ayme at only , and seeke to purchase with infinite debate , and persecution ; and under their peace and unity , the protestant religion thrives , and romish superstition utterly ceases : whereas under our strife and disagreement , religion and true devotion is over-run , and overgrown , like corne choaked with weeds . nay , it is thought that if our bishops had been more gentle-handed all this while towards such as dis-relish't ceremonies for poperies sake , and had rather pitied them as men of tender consciences , than persecuted and defamed them , as seditious puritans , these differences had not lasted so long : for when the reformation was not yet fully perfected , the puritans of those dayes were more fiery than now ; but not being so odious in the church , lesse combustion followed thereupon : whereas now they are so unmercifully treated , that no moderate complyance can serve the turne . there seemes now little remaining of puritanisme , but the breathlesse carkasse of it , and yet till that too be interred and consumed , no truce can be admitted . the very sufferings of puritans now are sufficient guilt , and imputed as the effects of their owne malice , their punishment is argument enough for the desert of their punishment ; the more they have borne , the more they must now beare ; and the more they now beare , the more they shall hereafter . fury is one of the maine things objected to puritans ; but in truth , the world has not any thing more furious than such as most pretend against them . hence it is , that the hatred of puritans flowes and descends from the highest of the clergy to the lowest : and young students in the vniversity know it now their wisest course to study the defamation of puritans , as the first and most necessary point of their learning and qualification , and as their surest path to promotion . and to make their detestation sure , and themselves irreconciliable , they must ingage themselves by some notable service of novelty , quarrelling with some point of protestantisme , or refining some point of popery ; they must taxe protestants as some wayes injurious to princes , or extoll papists as zealous observers of antiquity . it must be maintained that royalty cannot stand without the prop of episcopacy , though it never yet found greater enemy ; and that puritanisme only hinders the stretching of our religion , or else papists and we should soon agree . those of vulgar wits which serve not for such straines , that they may bee redeemed from suspicion of puritanisme , must do something factiously , or be vitious , or else their hopes of preferment are almost desperate . charity to papists , conformity to ancient fathers , and decent uniformity amongst our selves , are the specious colours wherewith they dresse and deck all their pretences ; for want of sectaries living in these dayes , they racke out of their tombes hacket , copinger , brown , &c. to upbraid us , for want of opposites enow here in england , they calumniate the scots to our dishonor ; for want of true imputations , they forge any crimes how monstrous soever , and their most sure one is , that which is most undiscernible , hypocrisie . neverthelesse it must be believed that the antipuritan disparages not our ancestors in the reformation , but for love of antiquity ; nor teares in sunder the bonds of religion nature , policy betwixt two the most close-united nations of the world , but out of love to unite : nor fils whole kingdomes with bloud , but out of love to order . such was sure diogenes his humility , trampling upon plato's couches ; such was nero's uniformity , setting on fire the streets of rome ; such was procrustes his symmetry , cutting his guests according to his beds . and therefore it s thought puritans are not so much hated for their opposition to ceremonies , as ceremonies are multiplied , and inforced for suppression of all zealous christians , under the umbrage of puritans : and that for the same purpose the enemies of piety have blown those coales which they might have quenched . hooker that sweet and noble antagonist of ecclesiasticall puritans says much in defence of the churches authority in imposing of ceremonies , but he says nothing in defence of the churches charity in imposing many , and displeasing ceremonies . so s. paul might have justified himselfe , as fitter to be subscribed unto and complyed withall then his scrupulous brother , and he might have justified his case concerning eating of such and such meates : but s. paul in wisdome , and charity , would doe neither . s. paul made not his strength an argument to make his brother yeeld who was weake , but he made his brothers weaknesse an argument whereby to prevaile and win upon him being strong . and why then does our mother the church maintaine her authority against her own scrupulous and tender-minded infants ? if in iustice and rigor they ought to obey her , and conforme to her wise commands ; does it therefore follow that in wisdome and charity she ought not to pity , and preferre their foolish , groundlesse doubts and jealousies ? is it honorable for the nurce to contest about authority with a forward childe , when by indulgence she may better still it ? if ceremonies bee but things indifferent , they are not so valuable , as peace , for that is necessary . admit fit and decent ceremonies to bee the outworkes of religion , the better to secure it from contempt , and prophanation : yet let not the outworks be too vast , least they take up more admiration , than they repulse disregard . neither let us suppose that all times are alike liable to prophanenesse . before moses , religion was very naked and simple in her ceremonies , and yet we must not thinke that god did then make ill provision , or was carelesse of the government of his church ; but under the law , ceremonies were strangely multiplyed to the iews , and that by gods owne appoyntment ; and yet in those times , i cannot thinke that any discipline could bee invented more honorable for religion . i shall desire therefore to walke between two extremes , neither wholy condemning all ceremonies as superstitious , nor embracing many as necessary , besides the ceremonious use of water in baptisme , and of bread and wine in the eucharist ; the gospell recommends no externall rites , but such as the generall rules of decency inclose , to our observation : but it seemes utterly to discountenance all iewish , carnall ordinances ; yet certainly if multiplicity of pompous ceremonies had been very usefull where knowledge abounds , and to be look't upon as the outworks of religion , the gospell would not have been so silent as it is concerning them . were we now to plant a church in the west-indies , amongst rude salvages , perhaps the externall splendour of our worship might bee as convenient as it was amongst the iews to attract proselytes : or had we now such a dreadfull presence of god residing amongst us , as the iews had in their oracle , perhaps musick vocall , and instrumentall , and statelinesse of attire , and fearefulnesse in our gestures , and postures would beseeme us in our solemn addresses and festivall celebrations : but the difference betwixt these times and those , and these christian countreys , and those that are barbarous is very great . what manner of divine service the french protestants and the scots use , and some other nations i cannot tell , but i hope it is not so nasty , and slovenly as some of our formalists would make us believe : for it seemes not impossible to me , but that in times of so much light , as these are , god may be very honourably and zealously served without many stately ceremonies . the bishop of downe makes a very sharpe speech to the puritans in ireland , as being very disobedient , and animated therein by the scotish covenanters ; but his chiefest eloquence is uttered against his own countreymen the scots , whom bee paints forth , as the chiefest traytors , perjured rebels , heretiques and hypocrites in the world : nay , he denounceth them worse than anabatists , and such as have more than justified the powder-traytors , and all the rebellious practises of the iesuites . afterwards hee addes also , that puritanisme is not the nationall sin of scotland only , but that they of the same faction in england had been as deep in the same condemnation , had they had so much power . see here the lively portraiture of an antipuritane , see a true b●ner revived againe , but in protestant habit ; and for ought i see , here are none exempted from this black venomous censure in all the kings dominions , but those of the popish and episcopall faction . it 's not to bee wondred at that the king thinkes ill of his subjects , or that burton or prin suffered worse than traytors merits . it s rather to be wondred at , that our streets do not runne with bloud dayly , since this is the gospell our reverend fathers of the church preach . this speech was thought worthy to bee dispersed in print over all our kingdomes in english ; but since , because it redounds so much to the honour of the three nations , and the repute of protestant religion , it s translated into latine , and coppies are printed for all christendome to take notice of . in this speech it s urged , that puritans , who began about 80 yeares since , have proceeded from bad to worse by sixe degrees ; first they did dislike , then contemne bishops ; then they did disobey their jurisdiction ; then separate themselves ; then they fell into the heresie of holding no difference between bishop and presbyter : lastly , they rebelled , and grew more immoderate than anabaptists : and here s. cyprian is alledged , who says , that the contempt of bishops is the beginning and ground of all heresies and schismes . here we see what puritans are , the most cursed miscreants on earth ; next we see who puritans are , all such as hold not with episcopacy : that is in probability halfe ireland , more than halfe england , all scotland , and many other protestant countryes . king james did put a difference betwixt such as dis●relisht bishops , and ceremonies meerly , and such as under that pretext fraudulently sought to perturbe the state , and make a factious separation . but here the difference of all puritans is graduall only , not substantiall : for dislike of bishops is the beginning of all heresie , and must needs end in anabaptisme and rebellion . how plainly d●es it here appeare , that episcopacy is the true helena of all this war ; and yet s. cyprian is to bee understood of the pastorall function , not of the ecclesiasticall iurisdiction of a bishop , or else in his sense the genevans , and the greatest part of protestants are heretiques , and king james made a frivolous distinction . such stuffe as this had not mis-beseemed a papist , but it s very odde in a protestant bishop ; except we consider him , as one who hath lookt back towards the onions and flesh-pots of egypt , and is inamored againe upon those glorious titles and ensignes of honour and pompe , which rome confers upon her courtiers . but to conclude this point , i wish princes would not allow such bishops to be carvers to themselves , and make them iudges in cases of their owne interesse : they are surely good spectacles for princes in theologicall deliberations , as temporall counsellors are in state affaires ; but miserable are those princes whose eyes cannot see without such spectacles . if religion did not prosper worse , if peace were not more violated , if persecution were not more common in countreys where bishops governe , than where they are expelled , we might suspect the scots as hereticall and rebellious by nature ; for chusing all the plagues of war rather than bishops : but when we see the contrary , we may as well listen to the scots against bishops , as to bishops against the scots . so much of the ecclesiasticall puritan , next after whom sprung up the puritane in religion , of whom i shall speake very briefly . there are many men amongst us now , which brooke bishops and ceremonies well enough ; and perhaps favourably interpret our late innovations : and yet these may bee too grave to escape the name of puritans . to be a protestant may be allowed , but to dispute against papists , smels of precisenesse : to hold the pope fallible is tollerated , but to hold him antichrist , is abominable puritanisme : to go to church is fashionable , but to complaine of the masse , or to be grieved at the publique countenance of popery , whereby it intwines our religion , and now drinkes up that sap which is scarce afforded to protestantisme , or at all to take notice how farre some of our divines are hereat conniving ▪ if not cooperating , is a symptome of a deepe infected puritan . he that is not moderate in religion , is a puritan , and he that is not a cassandrian , or of father francis synclers faith , is not moderate : he favours too much of calvins grosse learning , exploded now by our finest wits . sir robert cotton professes , that he stands much amazed to behold the magnificence of churches built by our ancestors , we their successors being scarce able to keep up the same : but that hee is farther beside himselfe with exceeding marvaile , when he casts his eyes back upon the excellent ground-worke of religion laid by our fathers in the reformation , and yet sees the same so ill built upon , and so negligently seconded by us their children : but this ( he says ) is not to be attributed to the hanging up of pius 5. his bull upon the bishop of londons gate , or to that favour which has been shewd to priests , but it is the idlenes , and insufficiency of many of our own teachers , conspiring with the peoples cold zeale , that has wrought this apostacy . the name of recusant was scarce known till the ii. of queen eliz. the marian persequution , being yet fresh in memory , and great zeale being begotten thereby , and the finger-worke of god being so apparent in the suddaine alteration of religion . then did the layty and clergy with holy emulation , strive who should shew themselves most affectionate to the gospell : then were our ministers as frequent in great mens houses , and as active as jesuites now are : then were praying and preaching both equally pretious to great and small . the name of papist smelt then ranke even to themselves , all sorts resorting dayly to church , to avoyd the shame thereof , untill arch-bishop grindals disgrace , and hatfields hard conceit of prophecies , brought the flowing of these good graces to a still water : but when sanders the coripbeus of catholicks had slily pinned the name of puritans upon all such as were most forward in encouraging , and couragious in opposing catholiques , and when he perceived that the word was pleasing to some ill affected of our own side ; he quickly heated some of us beyond the temper of discretion . and now with the crosse tumults of both factions in extreme choler vented in pulpits , and pamphlets , most men grew to be frozen in zeale , and so benummed , that whosever ( as the worthy l. keep. bacon observed ) in those days pretended a little sparke of earnestnesse , seemed red-fire-hot in respect of others . thus it betided protestants , as those which fare the worse for ill neighbours , for whilst they curbe papists , or reproove idle drones , they are incontinently branded with the ignominious name of precisians . see here sir robert cottons iudgement , as touching the occasion and originall of our religious puritans : and see also his censure of the state , as touching the same : for where hee taxes the indiscreete zeale of those who were so violently incensed at sanders his nickname , so maliciously and subtilly fastened upon them there in his margin , his note is this ; if these mens zeale had beene imployed otherwise , and a taske set them to do some good , they might have been reformed , or made harmelesse by diversion . but i passe from this kind of puritan to another , whom i shall call my political puritan ; for the bounds of puritanisme are yet larger , and inclose men of other conditions . some there are yet which perhaps disfavour not at all either ecclesiasticall policy , or moderate papists ; and yet neverthelesse this is not sufficient to acquit them from the name of puritans , if they ascribe any thing to the laws and liberties of this realme , or hold the prerogative royall to be limitable by any law whatsoever . if they hold not against parliaments and with ship-money , they are injurious to kings ; and to be injurious to kings , is proprium quarto modo to a puritane . our present civill , nay more than civill warre with scotland , and all the mischiefes thereon attending , the disaffection between the king and his subjects , and all the mischiefes thereon attending the discontinuance of parliaments , the proper remedies of all state-maladies , and universall grievances , which is a mischiefe whereby all mischiefes become incurable , all are caused by the abusive mistake , and injurious mis-application of this word puritan . the scots are puritans , and therefore enemies to monarchy , the english are puritans , and therefore haters of royall prerogative , both the nations have been hitherto famous for their devout reverence , and obsequious zeale to their princes ; but now puritanisme has infected them , and perverted them to disloyalty . thus is the kings heart alienated from his subjects , and by consequence , the subjects loyalty blunted towards him , to the incomparable , almost irreparable detriment of both : neither is this disaccord b●tween the king and his best subjects , more fatall and pernic●ous to the common-wealth , then his accord with the recusant faction . papists have now gotten the repute of the best subjects , and fittest for trust in places of eminent service ; nay 't is almost necessary that forraine papists be brought in for the supporting of the indangered royalty : for though the popish faction at court be strong and active enough for matter of counsell , yet for matter of force , the puritans in city and countrey be too predominant . the bishop of downe in his visitation speech layes all the calamities of church and common-wealth upon non-conformists , and for proofe thereof instances in the covenanters , whom he charges of rebellion , charging withall that rebellion upon puritanisme . the first thing ( says he ) that made me out of love with that religion , was their injurious dealing with kings , which i observed both in their practice and doctrine . hee taxes first their doctrine , because they deny the kings supremacy in causes ecclesiasticall , and allow subjects to resist , nay and depose their king , if he be a tyrant surely ahab could say little for himselfe , if he could not lay his owne crimes upon elijah ; but see here by what art of confusion all scots are called puritans , and all puritans rebels . king james spoke not so confusedly as if puritanisme were a religion ; and all that disliked bishops and ceremonies were of that religion ; and all of that religion were enemies to kings . if a bishop needed any proofe , it his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} were not unquestionable , i would desire him to prove all covenanters puritans ; denyers of the kings supremacy : or to instance in any kings which have been deposed or murthred by presbyteriall authority . how far bishops have incroached upon kings , is knowne to all the world : our protestant bishops lately have by oath and canon , combined together to bind the kings hands , though hee bee supreme , that hee shall not governe our church but by arch-bishops , bishops , arch-deacons , &c. and yet these troublers of israel have the face to taxe elijah of their own sinne . presbytery indeed has heretofore passed her bounds , yet not of late , but episcopacy has ever from constantine claimed an independance of divine right , till this instant . i conceive there are not in all the kings dominions , three men , except papists and anabaptists , which hold it lawfull to depose , or by any force to violate the persons of kings , how ill soever . the scotch divines indeed maintaine that a great body of men may defend themselvs against the unjust sword of misled kings , because they cannot fly , or otherwise save themselves ; and this they take now to be their own case ; whereas our court divines in england hold , that in such case , we ought all to yeeld our throats without defence . this seemes unnaturall , and truth was never unnaturall , but i forbeare to dispute a point so horrid to mans imagination . the bishop next instances in the rebellious practices of puritans , & reckons up some fasts in scotland appointed by the presbytery , without king iames his privity , and some other seditious sermons , and actions whereby he was much annoyed . but what ? did not king james know his owne enemies , or how to blame them ? did hee condemne all scots alike , or all bishop haters alike , or joyne the english in like condemnation ? we know well enough , that king james called rebellious precisians pu●itans , but he never called all puritans rebellious precisians ; he never used those termes as conve●tible , but declared his contrary meaning by a manifest difference taken between them . but the bishops maine ●nstance is in the present scotch insurrection ; this he cals a rebellion of puritans , and far greater than the powder-treason : for ( says he ) that plot was but the act of a few discontented gentlemen , but in this rebellion of the puritans they have ingaged a great part of the kingdome , so that this may be said to be the common sin of that sect. what could have beene raked out of hell more slanderous to our religion , more apologeticall for popery ? the powder-traytors are here preferred before the whole sect of puritans : the sin of the powder-traytors was , that they being but an inconsiderable party , sought the destruction of their king and his issue , and the flower of the nobility , gentry , commonalty , and the extirpation of the true religion , by a most diabolical bloudy practice and conspiracy . and it ought not to be charged upon the meere actors , as a symptome of discontent , onely wee know how far the romish religion it selfe favours and gives ground to such damned feats , and how far it has owned some having proved prosperous , and justified the doing thereof in nature as impious , though perhaps in degree not so hainous as this . for take this as it was conspired , and questionlesse , since the crucifying of iesus christ , the light never discovered any treason more ugly and horrible . now to out-match this deed of darknesse , the scotch nation by a strange general unanimity have armed themselves to oppose the ill government of bishops , and other alterations in the service of god , and the administration of iustice , and being invaded therefore by another nation , have used force to defend their lives ; and seeing that defence not safe in their owne countrey , they have since pursued it further by way of prevention in the country of their invaders . that is the greatest act of rebellion whereby the common peace and safety of a kingdome is most disturbed and impeached ; but by the common act of a whole kingdome , that mischiefe cannot be effected : therefore the bishop failes in his politiques when he thinkes that the major part disturbing the minor , is more trayterous , than the contrary . the unanimous act of a whole kingdome ought to bee presumed to bee lesse injurious , and more wise than the act of any small inconsiderable party , for it hath scarce ever been seen that a whole kingdome , or the majority thereof hath ever been treasonable to its selfe in procuring its own ruine . many states have perisht by the machinations of a few ill-affected , ill-advised counsellors , ( scarce ever any perisht otherwise ) but the totall body and collection has never been guilty of its owne ruine : and if it were , such treason could not be so great as that which is plotted by a few . whilst the scots contained themselves within their owne territories , and were considered as a kingdome within themselves , as they were when the bishop past his censure , they were not rightly so censured : neither was he then privy to their intrusions , that they would infest our kingdome with the same combustion , and so prove a disturbance to the greater part of our british monarchy , whereof they themselves are but a member of lesse bulke and value . cursed therefore are those uncharitable exasperating censurers , whereby the king is too far incensed , and by whose rash instigations the commotions themselves become the harder to be appeased . great insurrections are like great fires , wherein delay is mischievous , and small remedies rather turne to fuell , then extinguish : and violent counsell against an inraged multitude , is like oyle , or pitch cast into the flame . the wise politician proportions his remedy according to the mischiefe , if water will not prevaile , he useth milke ; if a little quantity will not suffice , he powres as the combustion it selfe requires . vnfortunate rehoboam stands as a seamarke to warne all princes how to shun this rocke of violent counsell against a people violently inraged and aggrieved . some men have interpreted the designes of the scots to have been treasonable from the beginning , and wholy bent upon the spoyle and havocke of the english nation from their first stirring : others have wholly justified their intentions and proceedings hitherto as defensive only , and inforced by necessity : both these , i conceive , are too rash and head-long in their guesses . in so great a body of men , there must needs be variety of opinions , and its likely contrariety of affections ; and therefore it behoves the king to be the more tender , moderate , and circumspect in his deliberations , as well for the one side as the other , especially since the scots have not evidently and universally as yet declared themselves for the worse . we may at once be charitable in hoping the best , and wise withall in preventing the worst ; nay , a charitable and sweet demeanor , if it be not too fond , may prove a great part of our prevention : doubtlesse rehoboam himselfe , had he not been wilfully devoted to yong , rash , and violent counsellors , might have easily retained within his obedience many of his well-meaning subjects , and reclaimed others of more moderation ; and by that meanes have divided and dissipated the most obstinate , headstrong , and furious of all the rebellious party . some princes thinke themselves bound in honour to do unwise things , and this was the error of rehoboam , his aged counsellours advised him to that which was most politick , concluding that to be most honourable ; but his genius rather led him according to the advise of his young gallants , to conclude that most politick , which to his haughty stomack seemed most honorable : but what was the event ? to avoid the scorn of young men , he incurred the scorn of old men ; to avoid the unjust censure of fooles , he incurred the just censure of wise men ; to gaine the honor of appearing stout , he purchased the dishonour of being rash ; to shew a contempt of danger he made himself a prey to it ; rather then to decline a blow by a gentle bowing of his body , he yeelded himself to be inevitably oppressed by it . at this time of revolt the israelites were not so wicked , as their revolt after made them ; it may be so with the scots , they are yet protestants , and perhaps may be retained so : and who can thinke of protestants , that so great a body of them , can at one fall so desperately tumble into the depth of mischiefe , as to make fasting , praying , oaths and sacraments , meere instruments and traines to commit murther , theft , sacriledge , treason , and the most unnaturall of all crying crimes ? but to returne to our owne nation , and what we suffer by our owne divine . manwarings doctrine is common at court , and 't is not long since a byshops chaplaine in tearme-time , challenged a iudge of treason , for delivering law according to conscience . and this is now no prodigie , for pulpits are not publike enough to preach an unlimitable prerogative in ; 't is fit our learned doctors should mount the benches of iustice also ; there to advance logicke instead of law ; for law is growne injurious to princes , and smels ranke of puritanisme . divines themselves will loose nothing to princes , but all other men shall , that they may gaine the more : and neither lawyers nor states-men must direct them in any thing , but both lawyers and states-men must be directed by them in all things : but let us a little examine how the conditionate and absolute formes of government come within the circle of theologie . the israelites were governed by monarchs , but not all alike absolute . the patriarchs were not so absolute as the iudges , nor the iudges as the kings , nor the kings as those heathen emperours , which at last made them tributary . the due of caesar , and the due of solomon , and the due of samuel , and the due of jacob , was not the same as to all points of state , or all degrees of royalty , and yet the nation was the same , and the forme of government still remained the same : viz. monarchicall . it should seeme that god approved that degree of soveraignty best , which was by himselfe setled in the person of moses , for when that people afterwards desired a king , of a more awfull and large prerogative , in imitation of other nations , the thing displeased god . samuel also wrote a book of this subject , shewing the just conditions of regall power ; ( the losse whereof is much to be lamented ) for if it had been gods will that all kings should be equally absolute in all respects , and free from all limitations and obligations alike , samuel needed to have written little thereof ; one word had determined all . but in scripture , as it now remaines , samuels booke being not extant , our chiefest light and guide now is by example , not rule ; and example we finde very various . the state and soveraignty of the jewish kings in generall , we find mild , and gratious ; but much differing in particulars . solomon was heavy over his subjects , and under his son they would not beare the like ; yet solomons pressure was not upon the estates of his subjects by taxes , and impositions , for he made silver in jerusalem as stones for plenty ; nor did he vex their persons by military hazzards and services , for he was at peace with all the world : neither did he any way let fall , or lessen their honour amongst other nations ; he made them rather a spectacle of glory and prosperity to the world . solomons harshnesse was onely in imploying so great multitudes for his own pompous attendance , and for the performance of such publike workes , and structures , as did tend to the magnificence and beauty of the state . besides , scripture does not satisfie us , neither by rule , nor example , whether kings ought to be successive alwayes , or elective ; or whether primogeniture of males , or unigeniture of daughters , ought to take place : many things are left so uncertaine , that it is not alwayes safe for kings wholly to rely upon examples ; and for the rule of obedience , it is generall , and no more advantagious for free monarchs , than conditionate potentates ; no more for supreame , than subordinate commanders . the law of nature best determines , that all princes being publike ministers for the common good , that their authority ought to be of sufficient latitude for that common good ; and since scripture is not expresse concerning that latitude , as to all people , the same not being to all alike necessary , the severall laws of severall countries best teach that certaine latitude . i could wish therefore that princes herein would not so much consult with divines , as lawyers ; or rather with parliaments , which are the grand courts and counsells of kingdomes ; for ( as cotton saies ) every man in particular may deceive , and be deceived ; but no man can deceive all , nor can all deceive one . ancient times are not precedentary to ours by any necessity , for lawes are now more learned , exact , and particular ; and courts and tables of iustice , and policy , are more wisely and methodically composed and elected , then they were ; and therefore there needs not that vocall power , or indisputable force to remaine in the breasts of princes , as was of old . the courts of parliament , and their unquestionable acts ▪ and ordinances , and their infallible avisoes , are now in all well-governed countries , the very oracles of all policy , and law , they are the fountaines of civill bloud , spirits , and life ; and the soveraigne antidots of publike mischiefes . that prince was never yet deceived which relied upon them , nor can he chuse but be deceived , which thinkes he can be assisted with any more wise or faithfull advertisement , then that which is given him by his whole realme united , and contracted in a lesse circumference . what end can all the flower of the nobility , gentry , and commonalty of a nation , being wise and religious , have in seducing their soveraigne , or in limiting that soveraignty , by which alone they are protected ? or what one party of particular men can better understand the true limits of sufficient soveraignty , and the profit thereof ; then this collective universality , whole rayes like the suns , are every where dispersed ; and yet whose body of light is here as in a refulgent globe concentred ? individualls may have many particular ends , severed from the princes or the states , but communities can ayme at nothing but the common good ; as the lesser fountaines scatter their branching streames up and downe in various maeanders , whilst the sea containes it selfe in an intire body , within its constant bounds . individuals also have but their owne particular set limit of perfection , and have judgements beside apt to be darkened by their owne severall interests and passions ; whereas the common body enjoyes a confluence of severall perfections , and hath the lesse force from abroad to overcloud them . of all men therefore it will most concerne princes to suspect them which are enemies to publike assemblies , and to confide in them most , whose ends are not divided from the generalities ; and as they tender their owne happinesse , to expect it chiefly from that generality , by which they are kings , to which they are gods , from which their very diadems receive honour and sanctity , to which their very royall order imparts life , and breath , and necessary subsistence . i come now to my ethicall puritan . the name of puritan must not rest here , for there may be some moderate , well inclined , facile men , whose education may be such that they are not much vers'd or insighted either in matters of religion , or matters of state ; they may be such as are no waies busie but in their own particular affaires , and yet it behooves that these men too be brought in within the opprobrious compasse of puritanisme . to the religious , ecclesiasticall , and politicall puritan , there must be joyned also an ethicall puritan . this detested odious name of puritan first began in the church presently after the reformation , but now it extends it selfe further , and gaining strength as it goes , it diffuses its poysonous ignominy further , and being not contended to gangrene religion , ecclesiasticall and civill policy , it now threatens destruction to all morality also . the honest strict demeanour , and civill conversation which is so eminent in some men does so upbraid and convince the antipuritan , that even honesty , strictnesse , and civility it selfe must become disgracefull , or else they which are contrary cannot remaine in grace : but because it is too grosse to deride vertue under the name of vertue ; therefore other colours are invented , and so the same thing undergoes derision under another name . the zealous man is despised under the name of zealot , the religious honest man has the vizard of an hypocrite , and dissembler put upon him to make him odious . here i may alledge even hooker himselfe in justification of this ethicall puritan , that good ingenuous man in these dayes , though he opposed them in polity , yet honoured them in morality , and certainty if he were now living , he would strongly inveigh against their opposers in this respect . he cites aristotle in his 5. booke of ethicks , and 3. cap. that many men in domesticall things may be vertuous , and yet offend {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , yea , i am perswaded ( sayes he ) that of those with whom we strive in this cause , there are whose betters amongst men could hardly be found , if they did not live amongst men , but in some wildernesse amongst themselves . and the cause ( sayes he ) of their disposition so unframeable to society is , for that what they thinke privately to be convenient and just with some shew of probability , the same they thinke themselves bound to practise and uphold , notwithstanding any law of man to the contrary : and thus by following the law of private reason , where the law of publike should take place , they breed disturbance . see here the maine taxation of puritans amongst their honest and wise opposers ( such as i allow hooker to bee , ) is this , that in things indifferent , they will not recede from their owne consciences , for any command whatsoever , in all necessary points of morality there cannot be found better men . i cannot tell , i am left to pronounce here with the poet . crudelis mater magis , an puer improbus ille ? improbus ille puer , crudelis tu quoque mater . i will only wish that neither the child would be so disrespectfull of his mothers judgement in indifferencies , nor the mother so unpittifull of her childes weaknesse in scruples . hooker also in his preface confesses , that puritans at first were pityed only in their errors , and not much withstood by any : for the great humility , zeale , and devotion which appeared to be in them , was in all mens opinions , a pledge of their harmelesse meaning . the hardest ( sayes he ) that men of sound understanding , conceived of them , was but this : o quàm honestâ voluntate miseri erant ! and for this cause luther made request to fredericke of saxony , that within his dominion they might be favourably dealt with , and spared , for that , ( their error exempted ) they seemed otherwise right good men . so then whilst their meaning is honest , and whilst their honest meaning tends onely to make themselves miserable , that is , objects of scorne , and punishment , favour ought to be shewed . t is true , hooker after complaines , that this favour produced ill effects amongst puritans , who by meanes of such mercifull tolleration gathered more strength then was safe for the state : but under favour , this does not appeare so with me : in france , scotland , and those parts of germany where zealots have had most liberty , and favour , i doe not see any effects so evident thereof , as these : that popery hath the sooner vanisht , and enmity beene the better prevented . it seemes to me , that england of all protestant countries has least cause to boast of her rigorous discipline towards puritans , having never yet been either quiet , or safe til this instant , and now scarce being able to beleeve , that great worke of deliverance , which god hath mercifully wrought for us . it cannot be denyed , but the yet unsettled condition of these times hath been scandalous in multitudes of anabaptisticall sectaries , whose severall conventicles cry , here is christ , and here is salvation : but what ? is this the blame of the churches indulgence to weake brethren in nice scruples ? surely no : for it is to be hoped , that when government is againe settled , as favour shall bee used in matters of indifferency , so the rod shall be resumed againe against all obstinate offenders in matters of weight . and who does not see , that these swarmes of conventiclers which now sequester themselves from us , are but the dregges of the vilest and most ignorant rabble , whose doctrines cannot prevaile though they meet with no opposition , nor subsist when authority once lifts up its hands or shakes its staffe against them . the feeble flyes of sommer , which every shower , and cloud almost disperses , are not more contemptible , than these wretched throngs , whose workes not being of god , no nor scarce of rationall man , cannot prosper in such an age of knowledge , learning , and piety , as this is . let us not then for some gnats , or frogges sakes ungratefully murmure against sommer , or undervalue all the sweet influences of the sun , and the softer gales of heaven . puritans by some are parallelled to iesuites , iesuites are called popish puritans , and puritans , protestant iesuites ; yet this is not indeed disparageable to them : for doubtlesse fiery zeale and rigour were not blameable in iesuites , were not their very religion false ; as celerity and expedition in a traveller is not in it selfe faulty , but commendable , though the traveller being in a wrong path , it causes him to stray the further from his journies end . my lord of downe professes that the first thing which made him distast the religion of puritans ( besides their grosse hypocrisie ) was sedition : so grosse hypocrisie , it seemes , was the first . what is grosse or visible hypocrisie to the bishop , i know not , for i can see no windowes or casements in mens breasts , neither do i think him indued with saint peters propheticall spirit whereby to perceive and search into the reines , and hearts of hypocrites ; but let him proceed . it is a plausible matter ( saies he ) with the people to heare men in authority depraved , and to understand of any liberty and power appertaining to themselves , the profession also of extraordinary zeale , and as it were contempt of the world workes with the multitude . when they see men goe simply in the streets , and bow downe their heads like a bull-rush , their inward parts burning with deceit , wringing their neckes awry , shaking their heads as if they were in some present griefe , lifting up the white of their eyes at the sight of some vanity , giving great groanes , crying out against this sin and that sin in their superiours , under colour of long prayers , devouring widdowes , and married wives houses ; when the multitude heares and sees such men , they are carried away with a great conceit of them , but if they should judge of these men by their fruits , not by outward appearance , they should find them to be very far from the true religion . see here the froth of a scurrilous libeller , whereby it is concluded that he that is of severe life , and averse from the common vanit●es of the time , is an hypocrite : if these descriptions of outward austerity i shall not only shew what is an hypocrite , but point out also who is an hypocrit , our saviour himselfe will hardly scape this description ; doubtles our saviour , and many of his devoutest followers did groane shake their heads , and lift up their eyes at the sight of some publick 〈◊〉 , and vanities , and did not spare to taxe the vices of superiours , and to preach to , and admonish the meaner sort of the people ; yet who but an annas or caiphas will infer from hence that therefore their inward parts burne with deceit , and that their end is meerely to carry away the multitude ; such as judge only by outward appearance , and have not their senses exercised to discerne betwixt good and evill ? it is likely the high priests and pharisees did thus blaspheme in those dayes , and that the rather , because from their owne fayned sanctity , they were the more apt to suspect the same in others : but what i must wee needs follow them , or this bishop in this ? but to proceed with this bishop , saint iames ( sayes he ) gives us a full description of true religion . wisdome from above is first pure , then peaceable , gentle and easie to bee entreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without judging , and hypocrisie . none of these properties will agree with the religion of puritans . it is not pure for it allowes vsury , sacriledge , disobedience , rebellion , &c. it is not peaceable , for these men are the incendiaries of christendome , it is not gentle , nor easie to be intreated , for they are more austere than cato , and not to be moved by perswasion or command . it is not full of mercy and good fruits , for they are all for sacrifice , nothing for mercy ; for the first table , not the second ; for faith , not charity ; they pull downe churches , but build no hospitals . it is not without judging , for they are known to be most rigid censurers . and hee is an hypocrite which spies a mote in his brothers eyes , and not a beame in his owne . here is a confused proofe , that such puritans are hypocrites , but no proofe at all , that this man is such a puritan . if my lord say be such a puritan , this denotes him an hypocrite , but this does not prove that my lord say , or brooke , or dod , or clever &c. or any the most famous puritan living is guilty of vsury , sacriledge , rebellion , pulling downe of churches , setting the world on fire , or of renouncing the second table and all works of justice and charity , or of censuring and condemning malignantly other men : if these things were true of particular men , calumny were needlesse : accusation would better suppresse them . and sure it is not out of favour that law proceeds not , for malice has often enough shewed her teeth , and would have bitten if she could , neither would she now calumniate if she could accuse . the bishop expects not to be beleeved ; if he puzzell , and work some into doubt , it is sufficient : but since bitter censuring , and calumnious condemning of others is s● infallible a signe of hypocris● : how doth the bishop wipe this off from himselfe ? can puritans , speake worse of any , than he doth of puritans ? sure they may well joyne with him upon this issue , that the greatest slanderer is the greatest hypocrite ; and yet seeke no further for slanders , than this very speech , wherein he so eagerly inveighs against slander ; but if individuals cannot be thus convinced by the bishop , how shall these signes and symptomes be applyed to whole sects , religions , kingdomes ? the most ordinary badge of puritans is their more religious and conscionable conversation , than that which is seene in other mens : and why this should make them odious or suspected of hypocrisie amongst honest and charitable men , i could never yet learne . a seeming religious consists in doing actions outwardly good , and the goodnesse of those actions is apparent to man ; but the false hypocriticall end of them is onely discerned by god : and therefore with what conscience can i condemne that good which is visible , for that evill which is not visible ? say , brooke , dod , clever , &c. are knowne to me ; yet no otherwise but as men singularly devote , and as all the prophets , and appostles would , if they were now living : and shall i conclude because they seem so , therefore they are not so ? i am so far from this , that my owne conscience bindes me to honour them , and that in those things , wherein i have not the grace to follow them . i have been a diligent inquirer into puritans , and have exactly tryed them three wayes . first , in themselves ; and so i finde them zealous , at least seeming so outwardly , and distinguisht principally from other men by their remarkeable , and singular zeale to god and the truth : and this to me is no ground of uncharitable censure . secondly , in those , which in these times thinke and speake charitably of them ; and they are so many in number , and of so good quality , that indeed to the popish and episcopall faction , all the kingdom almost seems puritanical ; but for this i cannot think the worse of them . but thirdly , when i consider puritans , and compare them with their common notorious adversaries , then their goodnesse seemes most evident to me , and if it were legibly ingraved in the open wickednesse and scandall of their chiefe opposers . nothing but truth , hollinesse , and goodnesse , seemes to me to be the cause , that papists do so implacably abominate them : that our proud hierarchists , ambidexters , and neuters in religion , do so uncessantly pursue their subversion ; that court-flatterers and time-serving projectors , and the ravenous caterpillars of the realme , do so virulently prosecute them with defamations and contumelies ; that stage-poets , minstrels , and the jesting buffoones of the age , make them the principall subject of derision : lastly , that all the shamelesse rout of drunkards , lechers , and swearing ruffians ; and the scume of the vulgar are so tickled with their reproach , and abuse . certainely , nothing but an unappeaseable antipathy could be the cause of all this , and no testimony of goodnesse can be more sure , un-erring , and unanswerable than such antipathy . amongst wicked men there may be particular hatred , but not a generall antipathy : one wicked man hates not another as wicked , but rather loves him therefore , or else the world did not observe a decorum in loving her owne , and hating strangers : as there cannot be division in satans kingdome ; so there cannot be communion or compatibility betwixt christs and satans subjects . but t is a miserable thing to see how far this word puritan in an ethicall sense dilates itselfe . heretofore it was puritanicall , to abstaine from small sins ; but now t is so to abstaine from grosse open sins . in the mouth of a drunkard , he is a puritan which refuseth his cups ; in the mouth of a swearer , he which feares an oath ; in the mouth of a libertine , he which make any scruple of common sins ; in the mouth of a rude souldier , he which wisheth the scotch warre at an end without bloud . it is sufficient that such men thinke themselves tacitly checked and affronted by the unblamable conversation of puritans , byshop lake that good and godly man moved at the declining state of his time , is said to have expressed his regret thus : we feare , saith he , a relapse into popish error , and superstition ; but my heart misgives me worse than so : vtter irreligion and atheisme , me thinkes , begins to prevaile strangly amongst us : we are not so likely to lose the light of truth , as the heat of zeale ; and what benefit is in religion , where the name of it is honoured , but the power of it is not at all seene ? where gods will is truely understood , but his commands are wholy slighted ? where men know like christians , but live like heathens ? the soule of religion is hearty devotion , and that growes dayly more and more ridiculous amongst us ; and yet religion without the soule of it , is rather a curse than a blessing to us . no impiety is so hainous in an ignorant sodomite , as want of piety is in a right instructed israelite . in this wise i have heard that good prelate did complaine ; and this makes me thinke , that he had in his complaint some respect to this word puritan , then which , certainely the devill hath not a more fatall engine whereby to confound religion , and to subvert all true zeale , goodnesse , and devotion . thus farre it appeares what a vast circumference this word puritan has , and how by its large acception it is used to cast durt in the face of all goodnesse , theologicall , civill , or morall : so that scarce any moderate man can avoid its imputation . and thus it does mischiefe to men , not commonly noted for puritans , but if a man be so noted , though perhaps irregularly , then it is farther otherwise abused : for all such a mans evill shall be charged upon his puritanisme , and all his good defaced for his puritanisme . such a man is condemned for murther , and adultery ; and at his death gives strong assurances of unfaigned repentance , and contrition of heart . he was a christian , a protestant , a minister , a puritan ; yet this crime is recorded and blowne abroad , not for the shame of christians , protestants , ministers , but of puritans . and as for his attestation of deepe humiliation , how excellent soever , the honour of them , if any be acknowledged , shall redound to the christian , the protestant , the minister , to any thing else except the puritan . howsoever in the first place it ought to be observed , that an uncleane streame does not alwayes receive it's uncleannesse from the filth of the fountaine , but in the second place a pure streame necessarily infers a pure source . t is true , trees are knowne by their fruites , and so are men generally by their workes ; but this similitude holdes not in all men , at all times : for good men sometimes commit soule sinnes , and bad men performe laudable services . david defiles vriahs wife , and to conceale it from the world , makes drunke and murders vriah ; and together with him casts away the lives of many other faithfull souldiers : yet nothing moved at this his owne mis-doing , at the same time he sentences to death a subject of his for damnifying a neighbour , to the value of a poore lamb : what might joab , and the other privy ministers of these his foule deeds , censure all this while of this his externally professed sanctity , and purity , and strictnes in point of justice to other men ; or of his so great indignation against pet●y offenders ? what might they judge of the root , from whence these fruits sprung ? did they conclude these fruits , good ? or did they conceive that such fruits might grow upon a good stocke ? it 's strange , that he which would be so rigid to a petty fellon , should himselfe find no remorse at his owne murther and oppression , in spoyling so gallant a commander , of his wife , of his sobriety , of his life , and to continue so long a time without regard either what himselfe had done , or what vriah had suffered . but it 's well , david lived in those times when the name of puritanisme was not invented to blast all goodnesse : had he lived amongst us , he had been accounted a puritan , and being a puritan , god might have forgiven him , but the world never would : but it seemes the world was not then poysoned with the same base word , though i beleeve under some other nicke-name goodnesse was alwaies odious : for we read , that for that very sin of david , gods name was evill spoken of amongst the wicked . so solomon the sonne of seduced bathsheba , if we censure him by many of his actions , perhaps jeroboam , and ahab that made israel to sinne , were not personally addicted to so much excesse of bodily lust , and pollution , nay perhaps many heathens and turkes have detested his enormous lubricities . i speak not this to countenance sin , but to discountenance rash censures of sinners , wishing all that thinke themselves fraile and mortall , to turne their eyes inwards , and to lay their hands upon their owne mouths , forbearing to censure all sins , but most especially the most latent and obscure of all sins , hypocrisie . solyman the magnificent is held the honestest of all the princes which raigned in his time , not excepting christian princes , nay not excepting the great father of them all , the apostolicke man of rome : yet this is no shame to christianity , but to christians rather ; nay i wish it might be accounted rather a rebuke , than a shame ; rather a rebuke to humble them , than a shame to confute them . for christ tels us that many times the first are last , and last first , god sees not as man sees , and yet he that will judge uprightly ought to see as god sees , and not as man . so much of the extensive infamy of this word puritan , now of its intensive malignancy : but little more needs to be spoken hereof , for he which tels you who is a puritan , for the most part tels what is a puritan . the papist we see hates one kind of puritans , the hierarchist another , the court sycophant another , the sensuall libertin another ; yet all hate a puritan , and under the same name many times hate the same thing . he which is an enemy to our religion which is the truth , hates the puritan as an enemy to truth ; he which is an enemy to piety , policy , morality , charges the puritan of being the same : wherefore whatsoever is hated by the perverted and disaffected in religion , piety , policy , morality , is a puritan , and whosoever is a puritan , is censured , hated , and slandered as a man perverted and disaffected in religion , piety , policy , and morality . this sufficiently appeares by the common slanders of all goodnesse in these dayes , and particularly by the byshop of downe , for as he justifies jesuites , anabaptists , and the powder-traiters before puritans ; so he describes , and proscribes whole religions , sects , and kingdomes for puritans . in the yeare of grace 1588 , when the spanish armado had miscarried , notwithstanding that his holines of rome had so peremptorily christned it , and as it were conjured for it , one of that religion was strangely distempered at it , and his speech was as 't is reported , god himselfe was turned lutheran : by which , for certaine , he meant hereticall . 't is much therefore that my lord of downe , now that episcopacy is so foyled in scotland , has not raged in the like manner , and charged god of turning puritan : but surely , if he has spared god , he has not spared any thing else that is good ; and if he has spared to call god puritan , he has not spared to call puritan devill : but to conclude , if the confused misapplication of this foule word puritan be not reformed in england , and that with speed , we can expect nothing but a suddaine universall downefall of all goodnesse whatsoever . aelius adrianus the emperour , about an hundred yeares after our saviour , having beene certified by serenius granianus , proconsul of asia , that the christians in those partes were illegally oppressed by the malice of unjust sycophants , sends this his imperiall edict to the next successor minutius fundanus . if the provincials can prove ought against the christians , whereof they charge them , and can at the barre of justice make good the same , let them proceed in a juditiall course : but let them not appoach , the christians meerely for the name , by clamouring , and rayling scandals against them : for it is expedient , if any be disposed to accuse , that the accusation bee throughly knowne , and judicially tryed you ; therefore if any accuse the christians that they transgresse the lawes , see that you judge and punist according to the quality of the offence , but if any upon spite or malice by way of calumny complaine agai●st them , see you chastise such for their malice , and repay them with condigne punishment . i began with a marquesso , i end with an emperour , both read the same lecture , both teach us a difference betwixt privy malicious calumny and open judiciall accusing , or impleading ; god sends us to hearken to both , asmuch as the necessity of our case requires it . finis . calumny arraign'd and cast. or a briefe answer to some extravagant and rank passages, lately fallen from the pen of william prynne, esquire, in a late discourse, entituled, truth triumphing over falshood, &c. against mr john goodwin, minister of the gospel. wherein the loyall, unfeigned and unstained affection of the said john goodwin to the parliament, and civill magistracie, is irrefragably and fully vindicated and asserted against those broad and unchristian imputations, most untruly suggested in the said discourse against him. by the said john goodvvin. licensed entered and printed according to order. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a85386 of text r12923 in the english short title catalog (thomason e26_18). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 168 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 32 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a85386 wing g1153 thomason e26_18 estc r12923 99859368 99859368 111442 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a85386) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 111442) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 5:e26[18]) calumny arraign'd and cast. or a briefe answer to some extravagant and rank passages, lately fallen from the pen of william prynne, esquire, in a late discourse, entituled, truth triumphing over falshood, &c. against mr john goodwin, minister of the gospel. wherein the loyall, unfeigned and unstained affection of the said john goodwin to the parliament, and civill magistracie, is irrefragably and fully vindicated and asserted against those broad and unchristian imputations, most untruly suggested in the said discourse against him. by the said john goodvvin. licensed entered and printed according to order. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. [8], 55, [1] p. printed by m. simmons for henry overton, and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head-alley, london : 1645. initial leaf is blank. annotation on thomason copy: "jan: 31st"; the 5 in imprint date is crossed out and altered to 1644. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng prynne, william, 1600-1669. -truth triumphing over falshood, antiquity over novelty. puritans -controversial literature -early works to 1800. a85386 r12923 (thomason e26_18). civilwar no calumny arraign'd and cast. or a briefe answer to some extravagant and rank passages, lately fallen from the pen of william prynne, esquire, goodwin, john 1645 29120 6 40 0 0 0 0 16 c the rate of 16 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-06 john pas sampled and proofread 2008-06 john pas text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion calumny arraign'd and cast . or a briefe answer to some extravagant and rank passages , lately fallen from the pen of william prynne , esquire , in a late discourse , entituled , truth triumphing over falshood , &c. against mr john goodwin , minister of the gospel . wherein the loyall , unfeigned and unstained affection of the said john goodwin to the parliament , and civill magistracie , is irrefragably and fully vindicated and asserted against those broad and unchristian imputations , most untruly suggested in the said discourse against him . by the said john goodvvin . psal. 56. 5. every day they wrest my words : all their thoughts are against me for evill . psal. 120. 2. deliver my soule , o lord , from lying lips , and from a deceitfull tongue . gal. 3. 4. have yee suffered so many things in vaine ? if yet it be in vaine . praeceptum trahit praeceptum , & transgressio trahit transgressionem . dictum hebraeorum . ex mercero in prov. 22. 4. apologiae nullas aures inveniunt : calumniae omnes praeoccupant . oecolam . epist. licensed entered and printed according to order . london ; printed by m. simmons for henry overton , and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head-alley . 1645. to the reader . reader ; my businesse with thee ( at present ) is not much . onely upon occasion of those passages of my antagonist , replied unto in the following discourse , i could not without breach of dutie , but administer this preservative unto thee against the danger of very many writings on that side ; that if thou beleevest them , especially in what they present concerning either the persons or opinions of their adversaries , without strict examination , thou art like to imbrace nubem pro junone , and to match thy understanding with untruth . which kind of marriage oft-times and in many cases , proves of as sad and unhappie consequence unto men , as ahabs joyning himself in this relation with jezabel did unto him ; concerning whom the sacred record avoucheth this ; that there was none like ahab , who did sell himself to work wickednesse in the sight of the lord , whom jezabel his wise provoked a . errors and misprisions concerning the persons , practises , and opinions of men , having taken the fancies and imaginations of some men , many times work them into very uncouth , violent , unseemly , and unchristian distempers , which makes them out of measure forgetfull of themselves , and of all rules of reason , equitie , and good conscience , in their representations of , and contestations against both the one and the other . especially when the speciall and particular points of difference between them and others , are of a difficult eviction and clearing on their parts , the resentment hereof is a sore temptation upon them to make many a voyage beyond the line of truth , to fetch apes and peacocks , and i know not what monsters both of practises and opinions to bestow upon them ; that so the uncontroverted disparagement which they hope to derive upon their opposites by such imputations as these , may help to mediate the like disparagement of their judgements in those other matters of difference , in the thoughts and minds of men . nor doth an accuser ( ordinarily ) open his mouth to that widenesse , or lift up his voyce to that strength and straine of clamour , when he can come by any thing that is reall and matter of truth , to make his accusation , as when he is constrained to serve his disposition in that kinde , with that which is fictitious , and pretended onely . the jews that sought the suppression and ruine of our saviour , not being able to prove any thing of reall demerit against him ( for pilate himself knew well that they had delivered him out of envie a ) thought to fill up the emptinesse of their cause or accusation , with the abundant loudnesse and importunitie of their clamour and cry : but they cryed , away with him , away with him : crucifie him . and in another place , because they could not with truth reprove him of any sin b ; being put upon it to feigne , they did it to purpose , and charged him with being a samaritan and having a devill c . who would have thought that the gentleman ( my antagonist in the ensuing pages ) or a. s. the duplicator against m. s. and some others of the same engagement , that i could name , would ever have sought protection for the cause they desire to maintaine , at those polluted sanctuaries of untruth ! if our opinions know not how to maintaine themselves and live , without the undue disparagement , or collaterall impeachment of those who are of opposite judgement to us therein , it is a sore testimony against them , that they are but counterfeits , and not of the royall line and race of truth ; who is able to maintaine all her legitimate off-spring , with her owne demeans , and native inheritance , without the unjust taxations of the reputation , practises , or opinions of her adversaries . till the sons of difference in matters controversiall , give over all wresting ( at least , all wilfull wresting ) and perverting of the sayings , doings , and opinions of their opposites , and catching at impertinencies and lighter oversights , and lie close in their reasonings to the points in difference ; they will never doe any great matter , either for the truth , or for their owne repute , amongst sober and advised men . this briefe advertisement i thought needfull to impart unto thee ; and if thou hast the taste and relish of it in thy spirit , i have nothing by way of transaction further with thee ( for the present ) but onely to expresse my desires unto god on thy behalf , that the perusall of the little piece ensuing , may either make or keepe thy thoughts streight concerning the man , ( a friend of thine , who ever thou beest ) whom thou shalt finde fiercely accused , and yet ( i hope ) sufficiently ( though calmely ) acquitted therein . it is a speciall grace of god vouchsafed unto thee , to be preserved , from making that crooked , which he hath made streight . from my study in colemanstreet . london . jan. 30. 1644. thine in him who is our all in all , john goodvvin . faults escaped in some copies . pag. 5. l. 24. for , confidence , r. confidence . pag. 18. l. 24. for , rerum , r. reum . ibidem . l. 30. for , contemned , r. continued . pag. 28. l. 6. for , rf , r. of . pag. 32. l. 30. for , right , r. law . pag. 35. l. 18. for , declare , r. decline . pag. 39. l. 15. for , not onely , r. not onely not . pag. 42. l. 13. for , shacking , r , sharking . pag. 44. l. 31. for , commodious , r. commodiously . pag. 46. l. 20. for , yet ( and , r. ( and yet . calumny arraign'd and cast . since the finishing of my lately publish'd a discourse , my antagonist having ( as it seems by his own expression b ) sacrificed the necessary naturall rest of his body , upon the service of the un-necessary and violent restlesnesse of his spirit , hath thereby gotten the opportunitie of doing very good service to the way of independencie ( so called ) by sending forth a discourse into the world , intituled truth triumphing over falshood ; i. ( by the figure hypallage ) falshood triumphing over truth : for whereas the weight of his credit and reputation before lay somewhat heavy upon the shoulder of independencie , and oppressed it ; by the unchristian extravagancie and impertinencie of this discourse , he hath so farre eas'd and reduced the burthensomnesse of it , that it may now be endured and borne without much detriment or disadvantage . and doubtlesse , divine providence was above him in drawing this acknowledgement and confession from him , that these collections or lucubrations of his are distracted c and impotent d : distracted they are in point of argument or reason ; impotent , in point of heat , height , and passion . or did we wave his own confession of the distractednesse of them , his expectation of such preferment for them as the satisfaction of the learned e , yea , and conviction of all the world f , were a demonstration , and that à priori , of such a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or affection cleaving to them . for can any man , with any consistency of reason , expect or think , that learned men , who have risen early , and gone to bed late , bestowed much time and paines to inquire out the truth and certainty of what they hold and professe , should yet be so desultorie and light in their judgements , as by a few indigested , nocturnall a , subitane b , impotent c collections and lucubrations to be turned out of their way ; especially when the collector makes no more conscience of speaking truth in matters of fact and of the most obvious and easie cognizance , then mr. prynne in many passages doth in these his lucubrations ? doth he think that the elaborate and long-studied notions and apprehensions of learned men , are of no better use or worth , then onely to adorn the trophies and triumphs of his extemporanie pen ? if he expected such obsequiousnesse of faith from the judgements of learned men to his subitane and indigested collections , in matters of more difficultie and weight , his method had been to have laid the foundation of such credence , by speaking truth in those things , which are every mans inquirie and cognizance , and wherein the miscarriage of his pen is obvious unto all . for he that hath not so much policie as in parvis sibi fidem praestruere , will never get an opportunitie magnâ mercede fallendi . and he that will not deale honestly in the light , who will trust in the dark ? i shall not ( for the present ) insist upon the refutation of those twelve imputations in his epistle to the reader , wherewith he labours to render the independents odious ; all and every of which , ( except the fift ) are every whit as appliable ( as i am able to demonstrate in the sight of the sunne ) to his partie , as to the independents , and some of them with farre more truth to the former , then to the latter . and for that inference which he deduceth from the fift particular there charged upon the independents ( which is the sting of the charge ) as viz. that denying there is any nationall church under the new testament , they must of necessitie deny one article of their creede , that there is a catholique church ; this collection ( i say ) is so impotent and undigested , that he that runs may reade non sequitur written in the face of it . nor secondly , do i intend to unbinde or meddle with that farrago , that bundle of blind learning ; i mean , those transcriptions and quotations , fetch'd many ( if not most ) of them , out of the darkest times of popery , ( as himself somewhere doth little lesse then confesse ) d which are the bulkie and unweildie part of his discourse : for , what communion hath light with darknesse ? old obsolete , exolete records , fetch'd out of the darkest times of popery , are no vrim and thummim , no oracles to be consulted about the mind of jesus christ ; no competent judges or interpreters of the lawes and statutes of heaven . the saying of cyprian is seasonable upon this occasion : this is not to be esteemed true antiquity to understand , quid hic aut ille ante nos fecerit , aut docuerit , sed quid is qui ante omnes est christus , &c. i. what this or that man did or taught before us , but what hee did and taught who was before all , even christ himselfe , who only is the way , the truth , and the life , from whose precepts we ought not to digresse a . and besides , if mr prynnes hand was no steadier , in transcribing these old matters , then it hath been in some things of later date concerning me , his antiquity it self may have cause enough to complain of being perverted into noveltie . nor thirdly , shall i thrust my sickle into my brother burtons harvest ; but leave the latter part of the discourse unto him , either to neglect , or answer , as god shall direct him . but fourthly , ( and lastly ) i shall briefly acquaint the reader , how unworthily my antagonist hath dealt by me , ( that i say not by himself , and his own reputation ) first , by assertion of untruths ; secondly , by cruell and unreasonable wrestings and torturing of my words , to make them speak what they never meant ; thirdly , ( and lastly ) by slight and empty replies to things asserted and laid down by me . for the first , he cites my two sermons ( intituled theomachia ) and my innocencies triumph , as denying ( hee means disswading ) all opposition in word , deed , or thought against the way of independency , as a direct fighting against god b ; which is a most notorious untruth ; all that i drive at in these discourses , is to disswade men from opposing this way with an high hand , lest in so doing , men should fight against god : there is no such assertion as this which mr pryn chargeth upon me , nor any neer it , or like unto it , in either of those tracts . i no where affirm , all opposition to this way , whether in word , deed , or thought , to be a direct fighting against god . nay , p. 12. of my theomachia , i affirm the quite contrary , viz. that it is not every degree or kinde of opposing a way or doctrine which is from god , which either the text or the doctrine calleth a fighting against god ; but only such an opposing which is peremptory , and carried on with an high hand , &c. 2. he cites my sermon , preached febr. 25. 1643. my theomachia and innocencies triumph , as holding forth this position , that every particular congregation of visible saints , and independent church , is under the government of christ alone , as the only head , king , governour , law-giver of it ; and subject to no other jurisdiction , then that of christ , his word and spirit , &c. a which conclusion , though generally held and maintained by protestants against papists ; and in that respect i need neither be afraid , nor ashamed to own it ; yet if hee can find , or make out with any tolerable construction of words and saying , of any , or all of those pieces of mine which he chargeth with it , let mr pryn be true , and me the lier . but if otherwise , currat lex , &c. 3. he chargeth me with affirming ( in the fore-mentioned sermon ) that it would be more easie for me , and i should rather yeeld to be torn in pieces by wild horses , then submit to such a government which proceeded from a parliament chosen by the riffe-raffe of the world , b &c. never was there an innocent and harmlesse expression more cruelly and despitefully handled , since the world was first haunted with a spirit of unrighteousnesse and untruth . the passage of mine , represented by mr prynne , as you have heard , was only this ( i shall go as neer the very words as my best memory will lead mee ; but the effect and substance of the saying i perfectly remember ) it were as easie for mee to be torn in pieces by wild horses , as to submit to any church-government whatsoever , which is not agreeable to the scriptures , and minde of christ . but to deny subjection unto a government which should proceed from a parliament , because chosen by the riffe-raffe of the world ( which terms i mean the riffe-raffe of the world , are suppositious too , and none of mine ) was so far from my thoughts in that sermon , that i expresly declared , and said ( as severall of those that were examined about the sermon before the committee , there testified , and i nothing doubt , but to this day , do perfectly remember the saying ) that as a church-government was not therefore to be received or submitted unto , because it is injoyn'd by men ; so neither is it therefore to be rejected , because it is commanded by men . 4. he cites the fore-mentioned sermons ( called theomachia ) as holding forth this assertion , p. 48 , 49 , 50. that perchance all , or the greatest part of the parliament and assembly are not indued with the sanctifying spirit of god , c &c. if there be so much as the least hint or insinuation of any such matter in any , in all of those pages , i shall mistrust either my eyes , or my sensus communis for ever . but if it be otherwise , mr. prynnes tongue and pen ( as well they deserve ) are like to beare the burthen of this my diffidence . 5. hee cites the prementioned , theomachia , with my two books since , for crying up the independent way , as the very government , discipline , kingdome and ordinance and christ himself , a &c. whereas , first , since the coming out of my theomachia , i had put forth only one book ( and that a very small one too , and which the violent and mercilesse proceedings of himself against mee , extorted from me , ) when this was affirmed and printed by him . and secondly , there is no such cry , as that wch his fancie is troubled with , to be heard throughout either the one of those books , or the other . so that here is a double notorious untruth in this quotation : 1. that i had set forth two books , since my theomachia : 2. that in these two , as also in my theomachia , i cryed up the independent way , as the very government , discipline , kingdome and ordinance of christ . 6. whereas hee avers , that pending the complaint against me before the committee for plundered ministers , for some antiparliamentary passages ( so called by him ) with other particulars , i justified the said passages again very unseasonably in the pulpit on a solemn first day , and likewise in two printed books , to the one whereof i prefixed my name b ; the truth is , first , that ( if my memory serves me not as ill as mr. prynnes confidence serveth him ) i never justified , nor medled with those passages he speaks of in the pulpit , either on any solemn fast day , or any other , within that compasse he speaks of : nor secondly , had i justified them in two books , when mr. pryns pen avouched it , though by this time it may be interpreted that i have ; nor thirdly , have i put forth any book since , to which i have not prefixed my name ; or at least suffixed it to an epistle , if not at large , yet by the initiall letters of it . therefore if mr. pryn implies , that i have published any book within the time hee speaks of , which i do not publikely own , he is implicated with a further untruth in such his implication . 7. whereas he affirms ( with no want of confidence ) that hee hath elsewhere answered , and fully refuted c the passagers aforesaid ; what truth there is in this affirmation , let my last discourse d testifie . he hath answered those passages of mine he speaks of , much in such a sense , and after such a manner , as mr. walker and mr. roburrough , have answered my socinian errors : which answers hee adviseth his reader to see ( p. 109. in the margent ) but tells him not where they are to be seen . 8. whereas he chargeth me in my innocencies triumph ( quarrelling with the very title , as if it were unfit , and he unwilling that innocency should triumph ) with denying those very matters of fact which i voluntarily confessed in his hearing before the committee a , for which i was sequestred ; the truth is , that there is no truth at all in this his allegation or charge . for , first , i am certain , that jesus christ was present at the committee , as well as mr. prynne ; and certain i am that in his hearing ( which is every whit as good as mr. pryns ) i confessed nothing there , which is denyed by me in my innocencies triumph . i neither confessed that i neglected my parishioners , nor that i seldome preached unto them , nor that i prescribe a covenant to my independent congregation , with in stead of my parishioners i have gathered to my self , before they be admitted ; nor that i receive tithes of my parishioners in any other way , or after any other manner , then as i declare and expresse in my said book . if i had confessed any of these things , either before the committee , or any others , i had been of mr. prynnes confederacie against mine own innocencie , and the truth . but what i did confesse before the committee , i confesse as plainly in my innocencies triumph ; as viz. first , that i had refused to baptize some children of my parishioners b . secondly , that i had not administred the sacrament to my parish for some moneths c . again , secondly , whereas he saith that i was sequestred d by the committee , for the matters before mentioned , and denyed by mee in my innocencies triumph , in this hee asperseth the honourable committee every whit as much ( if not more ) then mee . for ( doubtlesse ) it no way stands with their honour to sequester a man for that which was never done by him . nor thirdly , do i know whether i may take mr. prynnes word ( it is now grown so unstable ) that i am suspended , censured , or sequestred by the committee , either for the one thing , or the other ; and besides , a friend of mine , inquiring of some that are members of the said committee concerning that suspension or sequestration which mr. prynne speaks of , received this answer from them , that they knew no such thing . i suppose it is not ordinary , that a sentence or censure should passe in a court of justice against any man , and hee not to have any knowledge of it for severall moneths together : but if it be so , gods will , and mr. prynnes wish , ( fiat justitia ) in mr. prynnes sense , are fulfilled together . 9. he is not ashamed to avouch , that i publish my brain-sick jealousies and suspicions of the parliament behind their backs in open pulpit , and then to the whole world in print ( a strange misdemeanor indeed , and more monstrous and incredible , then ever committed by the very pope or turk himself , or the great antichrist , or the arch-prelate , or oxford aulicus , or the most venemous malignant , that a man should doe that behind mens back , which he doth in print to the whole world ) of purpose to make my auditors , readers , jealous of them , as men who invaded the very incommunicable royalties and priviledges of heaven a : whereas the god of heaven , who knows my purpose and intent in those passages ( as in all my actions besides ) much better then mr. prynne knows the contrary ; and that my purpose therein was singly and simply , and with all faithfulnesse , as becomes a minister of jesus christ , to caution those worthy persons of honor and trust , against that snare of sinning against god , into which great places of power and interest in the world are apt to lead men before they are aware . 10. he chargeth my late sermons and pamphlets to have kindled such unhappie flames of contention in our church and state , as all the teares of repentance which i may shed , will not be sufficient to quench . for my part i know of no such , i heare of no such , i know no cause why i should imagine that any such unhappie flames as he speaks of , should be kindled by any of my sermons or writings . i have much more reason to conceive and think , that mr. prynnes writings charge mine with kindling flames of contention , much after the same manner , and upon the same terms , that one charged eliah with being the troubler of israel b : and that mine may recharge his , as the prophet did that king c . 11. whereas he further chargeth me , that in my innocencies triumph , i slander the parliament more then before , and shew my self a man despising government ( at least any church-government the parliament shall establish not sutable to my fancy ) self-willed , and even speaking evill of dignities , &c. d ; the truth is , that there is far more slander in the charge , then in the crime : the best is , that that book is open before the world , to see and judge whether therebe , i doe not say any aspersion of slander , but so much as the least touch or tincture of any thing dishonourable to the parliament , or to any government or dignitie whatsoever , because not sutable to my fancie . 12. whereas he insinuates a guilt upon me of socinian errors a , and in his margent invites his reader to see mr. walkers and mr. roburroughs answers to them ; the truth is , that in the answers he speaks of , his reader may see and finde mistakes of my opinion , and confutations of those mistakes , as substantially managed as want of apprehension of my thoughts , and somewhat else , was able to manage such an enterprize : but for any socinian errors of mine , they are onely to be seene in such books as were never written : and then where the answers to them are to be seene , remaines yet as matter of further inquirie for mr. prynne . for the second head propounded , the unreasonable wresting , torturing , and tormenting of my words , i shall chiefly insist upon his paraphrase upon that passage , recited ( in part ) by him , p. 107. ( but mis-cited in the margent , as touching the page , where it stands in my book ) . the tenor of the passage in this ; if i have denyed the least dram or scruple of that power which is truly parliamentary , and consistent with the word of the great and glorious god ( of which misdemeanor i am not in the least measure conscious unto my self as yet ) i most seriously and solemnly professe in the presence of this god ( my conscience bearing me witness in the holy ghost that i lie not ) that i did it out of a loving , tender and affectionate jealousie over the parliament , lest possibly they might dash their foote against that stone , by which all rule and all authoritie and power will one day be broken in pieces . so that if either my tongue or pen have in the least miscarried , it was , error amoris , not amor erroris , &c. you have heard the text : and if you have any mind to see darknesse brought out of light , hearken to the interpretation . but good sir ( saith this intepreter , one , i may say of twentie thousand ) can any rationall man think ( though you should protest it ten thousand times over ) that such anti-parliamentary passages as yours are , should proceed from your love to the parliament ? suppose the passages he speaks of were anti-parliaentary ( an aspersion i conceive fully attoned in the foregoing discourse ) yet is it so highly irrationall to conceive they should proceed from love to the parliament , ( especially upon ten thousand affidavits made for it ) that it must be made matter of a doubtfull disputation , whether it be possible for a rationall man so to think or conceive ? did mr. prynne never heare of a veine of people , who did bona animo malè precaris , wish that which was hurtfull to their friends , out of good affection towards them ? seneca ( i am certain ) speaks of such . and god himself is said to have testified things against his people ( as the former english translation , and junius out of the originall reads the place , gen. 32. 46. ) cannot a rationall man conceive that these things might proceed from love and good affection in god towards this people , because they were against them ? i cannot but think that mr. prynne himself hath been anti-parliamentary , i meane , hath done some things , ( if not many ) in their natures at least , if not in their fruits and effects , prejudiciall to the honour and safety of the parliament , as ( by name ) in representing their cordiall friends ( as sometimes his conscience , or something else prevailes with him to call them a ) unto them as dis-affected unto them , and as acting , and that successively against their jurisdiction more desperately then the worst malignant , royalist , cavalier , on the arch-prelate himself b ) . doubtlesse , such a practise as this , is in the nature and tendency of it very disserviceable to the parliament ; as making sad ( and so indisposing ) the hearts of those , whose inclinations otherwise stand ready bent with all chearfulness , to serve the parliament with all their strength and all their power , as ( blessed be god ) they are resolved to doe ; after the example of christ , who continued still to cast out devils , though represented by the pharisees unto the people , as dealing by beelzebub the prince of the devils , in casting them out . compare mat. 9. 34. with mat. 12. 22. &c. so againe by representing unto them as peaceable , innocent and harmlesse a generation of men , as the land beares any , yea , persons as deeply and dearly devoted unto , of as high and honourable endeavours to promote the publick peace both of church and state , as those that are extremely derogatory and destructive unto both , yea , and great disturbers of our peace and unitie c . yet againe when he infuseth such notions and principles into kings , magistrates , highest civill powers , as this , that christ hath delegated his kingly power unto them , &c. d . he spreads snares of death in their way , and tempts them to think higher thoughts of themselves then he that is higher then the highest of them will beare . now however in these and severall other things of like consideration ( which are ready too for instance ) i absolutely conceive him to be very whit ( yea , and much more ) anti-parliamentarie , then ever i have been in any passages whatsoever , whether from my tongue or pen ; yet doe i not think but that i may very lawfully , and without trespassing upon the reputation of my reason , conceive and think , that he did both the one and the other of the things mentioned , out of love to the parliament . secondly , the honey of the foresaid passage , by reason of an ill digestion in his stomach , breeds this cholerick argumentation : if this proceeded from such affectionate jealousie over the parliament , i pray what made you so strangely , if not malignantly , jealous over them , as to feare and presume they might dash their foote against that stone , which , &c. good sir , let me seriously intreat you to be more jealous over your pen for the time to come , and see to it , that in repeating and arguing mens words and sayings , it deale more honestly , then to adulterate and imbase them , as you doe both here and elsewhere in this discourse . doe i anywhere say that either i feare , or presume the parliament might dash their foote against the stone spoken of ? why then doe you represent me so strangely , if not malignantly , jealous over them , as to do both , both feare and presume ? i confesse , i should be very strangely jealous , or ( however ) very strangely affected in one kinde or other , both to feare and presume in respect of one and the same thing , as you feare not , but presume to say here that i doe . you find out i know not how many significations ( i beleeve more then ever any man did before you ) of the word presume , p. 109. to salve the reputation of your pen in charging me to have done that presumtuously , which i never did at all , or at most very ignorantly ; but is there any one amongst them all , that is able to reconcile presvmption and feare , and make them draw together in the same yoke ? but this by the way . onely this i desire you would candidly account unto me , why you translate my expression , lest possibly they might dash , by fearing and presuming they might dash . i beseech you deale ingenously with your self and me : is there not farre more malignancie in the interpretation , then in the text ? or did you not straine the roote overhard , to make such an extraction as this out of it ? nay , out of the vehemencie of your intention to make an unchristian advantage of your brothers words , did you not almost forget the proprietie of your owne ? i conceive i should speak much beneath the line of mr. prynnes reputation for a scholar , if i should expresse my self thus ; i feare and presume that mr. prynne might doe that which is very possible for any man to doe . an english care any thing well palated , would find no pleasant taste in such words . but let us give mr. prynne the libertie of an interpreter or translator , who is not bound verbum verbo reddere a , and accept of his substitues , presumption and feare ; is either a feare , or a presumption ( or both ) that a parliament might , or may , dash their foote against that stone i speak of , any demonstration or argument at all of so strange a jealousie as he speaks of , and which he is at a stand with himself , whether he should not call malignant ? if any of the other apostles had feared or presumed , that peter possibly might fall ( as he did ) by denying his master , ( as they had reason enough to have done , in respect of that humane frailtie whereof the best men are partakers , and peter himself was with the rest ) and had dealt lovingly and faithfully with him to have kept him upright , by caution , counsell , or advice ; had this been any argument at all , or so much as a colour of any such jealousie in them , which should have carried in it any touch of malignancie towards him ? when paul feared in the behalf of the corinthians , lest by any means , as the serpent beguiled eve through his subtiltie , so their minds should be corrupted from the simplicitie that is in christ b ; was this so strange a jealousie over them ? indeed himself calls it a godly jealousie c : and in such a sense , as godlinesse is strange d in the world , let mr. prynne vote my jealousie over the parliament , strange ; and then he shall be eas'd of his scruple , whether he should call it malignant , or no . but jacta alea est ; and he intends not to make a stand here , but advanceth thus . did the parliament ever give you the least colour or occasion of such uncharitable , unchristian , that i say not detestable , jealousie ? could you have harder or more jealous thoughts then these of the very pope or turk himself , or of that great antichrist , who exalts himself above all that is called god ? can such jealousies as these issue from any , but from a rancorous or dis-affected heart towards the parliament ? or did ever such execrable jealousies as these proceed from the heart , tongue , much lesse the pen of any oxford aulicus , or most venomous malignant to our parliament ? the straine of eloquence in these passages , may be thought above the line of mr. prynnes rhetorique ; nor can i beleeve but that he had some supernaturall assistance in the raising and composure of them . and therefore whereas others ( it 's like ) will be apt to censure him more for a few such lines as these , then for many others of a softer temper , and more plausible allay ; i on the contrary , can better beare with him in these , and be content to passe by and spare him , as our saviour spared peter , when he rebuked satan in his stead a . but did i know that mr. prynne would not accept of this purgation , but when recovered out of that tartarean ecstasie , wherein he spake this dialect of dragons , would still stand by and owne those ebullitions of bloud , as the naturall and genuine productions and fruit of his pen ; i should hardly refraine from taking a solemne vow and protestation upon me in the sight of god , angels , and men , never more to have to doe with him in word or deed , at least untill he repented , and turn'd christian . well might the apostle paul pray to be delivered from unreasonable men b : they that neither make use of their reason nor goodnesse , ( or charitie ) dwell in such a darkness which is inaccessible to all principles both of nature and grace . for the present , though i think it not meet for me so far to vvi my self of my libertie to comply with such opportunities from heaven , which may possibly and unexpectedly come in my way , as absolutely to abjure all commerce with him by pen ; yet this i professe , that i am as neere the brow of such a resolution , as ever i can goe without falling into it . from henceforth i shall give mr. prynne leave to write stormes and tempests , whirlwinds and earth-quakes , thundering and lightning , mill-stones and mountains , ( or if his pen knows how to utter it self in any thing more formidable then these ) better cheap , then hitherto i have done : i see there is no mercy with him ; and therefore i shall not feare him ; no , nor in the mind i am in for the present , ever look after him in his writings more , this answer finished . but to his lines ( or , whose-ever they be ) . first , doth mr. prynne think that he is heire to that laurell which was long since wreath'd for the head of socrates , reputed in his dayes the grand-matter of wisdome in the world ; tanquam umbrae velitant alii ; solus sapit iste ? other men generally as well learned and scholars by profession , as others , yea , even those in whose affections neither my person nor cause were any wayes interessed , gave testimony to my innocencies triumph ( and consequently to that passage also so cruelly handled by mr. prynne ) as moderately and inoffensively written : onely mr. prynne , as if his eyes were given him to condemne all the world besides of blindnesse , espies bears and tygers , lyons and dragons , where other men saw nothing but doves and sheep ; discovers fanatique jealousies , rancourousnesse and dis-affection of heart , execrablenesse of jealousies , oxfordian aulicisme , venomousnesse of malignancie , and i know not how many other strains of most portentuous and hideous outrage against the parliament , where no man besides himself either saw or could see , any jot , tittle , letter , syllable , word , or sentence , but what both was and is of the fairest consistencie with the honour , dignity , peace and safety of the parliament . but secondly , how irrationall and weak is that demand of his ; did the parliament ever give you the least colour or occasion of any such uncharitable , unchristian , that i say not detestable jealousie ? as if to feare , or think it possible that men might be men , that is , do weakly or unworthily , were an uncharitable , unchristian , detestable , execrable jealousie over them ; or , as if there were not ground and reason enough , yea , and more then enough , in the very natures of the best and holiest of men , to judge that they may very possibly miscarry , and that dangerously , unlesse they should adde ex superabundanti , such personall irregularities , as might further presage their future falls , i wonder what epithet or name mr. prynne will find for that jealousie of an ancient father over kings , out of which he uttered this saying : miror si aliquis rex salvahitur ; i wonder that any king should ever be saved . if so be such a jealousie over them , which only conceiveth a possibility of their perishing , be uncharitable , unchristian , detestable exeorable ; of what censure is that jealousie worthy of , which makes it matter of admiration that any of them should be saved ? considering that there hath scarce ( if at all ) been any councel or synod since the apostles dayes , but which hath miscarried and heterodogmatiz'd , more or lesse ; would it be my uncharitable , unchristian , detestable , execrable jealousie over any synod or councel now fitting , to think that they also might possibly miscarrie , unlesse they gave some particular and speciall occasion so to think and conceive of them ? but my adversarie hath not yet finished his severe commentaries upon his gentle and harmlesse text ; his pen moves forward thus : had you had any just cause of such a jealousie , yet it had been your duty privately to have informed your friends in parliament with it in a brotherly christian way : but to publish these your brain-sick jealousies of them behinde their backs in open pulpit , and then to the whole world in print , of purpose to make your auditors , readers , jealous of them , as those who invaded the incommunicable royalties and priviledges of heaven , &c. — or to defame or draw an odium or contempt upon them , and prepare the people beforehand to oppose or reject whatsoever church-government they shall establish , &c. — is such a transcendent crime and high affront against the parliament , as you are never able to expiate : and is so far from extenieating , that it aggravates your former offences beyond expression . i answer , first , that howsoever by reason of my yeeres , profession , and tenour of studies , it is ( i confesse ) a shame to me , that i should not be as able to teach mr. prynne his duty , as ( it seems ) he is to teach mee mine ; yet glad and willing shall i be to receive instruction , were it from a far meaner hand then mr. prynnes , in any thing that becomes me in a way of dutie to do . but , secondly , whereas the tenour of his instruction to me is this , that it had been my duty privately to have informed my friends in parliament with it in a christian brotherly way ; i perceive hee hath heard of dealing with his friends in a way which well becomes him , as well as it doth mee ; i mean , that which is christian and brotherly . but it seems , hee that teacheth another , doth not alwayes teach himself . for since the mountains were brought forth a and settled b , it may very probably be thought , that there was never any son of adam , whose pen made a broader digression from that christian brotherly way he speaks of , then his own . for look as low as the earth is beneath the heavens ; so far is mr. prynnes way of dealing with his friends , beneath that which is christian and brotherly . thirdly , whereas he conceives it had been my duty to have informed my friends privately of what i preached and printed publikely in the premisses ; i conceive it had been his duty to have understood himself better in the point , before hee had taken the chaire . for first , the greatest part of the things which i either preached or printed in the premisses , concern'd only or chiefly those to whom i preach'd , and the generalitie of men to whom i printed , not the parliament . that it is a terrible and most dreadfull thing for men to be found fighters against god , that it is better and more righteous to obey god then men ; that men in great places , men of great parts , learning , and grace , may possibly erre , and de facto have err'd from time to time , with some few particulars more of like consideration ( which are the substance of what was either preached or printed by mee in the premisses ) are doctrines of equall ( if not of superiour ) concernment to the generalitie of the people , with the parliament . as for that passage in my innocencies triumph , wherein i mention my tender and affectionate jealousie over the parliament , &c. ( the passage so tenter'd , tortur'd and tormented by the evill spirit which so much haunts mr. prynnes pen ) it was occasioned ( indeed necessitated ) by his own most unreasonable , bloody , and importune suggestions , clamours and instigations of authoritie against mee : in regard of which i had no other course but to give a faire and reall account out of what principle and motive ( in reference to the parliament ) i spake such and such things , which were most unchristianly handled and misused by his pen . now then to whisper those things in the eares only of a few , the knowledge whereof concernes so many thousands , is not the duty , but an high prevarication of the duty of a minister of jesus christ . secondly , neither doth he know whether the doctrines so much questioned and quarrelled by him , did , or do so particularly concern my friends in parliament ( by my friends , i suppose hee means my acquaintance : for otherwise i trust the whole number of that honourable assembly are my friends ; at least i know no cause but why they should ) as many other members of this assembly . if so , his ignorance in such a circumstance as this , plainly proves that he hath here prophesied above the analogie or proportion of his faith a ; and consequently , ( even in his own notion of the word b ) hath done it presvmptvovsly . yea , thirdly , how doth he know but that i did prevent the admonition or reproof of his pen , by doing the very duty , for the neglect whereof i am so deeply censured by him . i presume that my acquaintance in the parliament have not communicated unto him all things that have passed between me and them ; therefore his ignorance in this particular also , proves him ( according to the responsall of his own oracle , even now intimated ) to have been somewhat presvmptvovs in his charge of neglect of duty in mee . fourthly , and lastly , there being nothing in the particulars excepted against , either preached or printed by mee , which in the judgement of any indifferent or christian-spirited man , is of any hard or disparaging reflexion either upon any particular person in the honourable assembly of parliament , or upon this assembly it self , there could be nothing in the publishing of them , whether by preaching or printing , any wayes repugnant to any duty lying upon me . that which followes in the late transcribed passage , as that i publish my brain-sick jealousies and suspicions against them behind their backs , of purpose to make my auditors , readers jealous of them , as men who invaded , &c. or to defame or draw an odium or contempt upon them , to prepare the people before-hand to oppose or reject , whatsoever , &c. these things ( i say ) with many others of like calculation , both in this and many other of his writings , are but the reasonlesse presumptions of his exasperated , transported , unchristianized spirit , over-heat ( it may be ) with his nocturnall lucubrations , and in part occasioned by the fuliginous vapors breathing still upon him from his lamp ; and in this regard , i judge them unworthy to have day-light bestowed upon them for their refutation . hee talks of my brain-sick jealousies and suspicions ; but these are more then brain-sick , even brain-dead calumniations and slanders ; ten degrees ( to speak in his own language ) more unchristian , uncharitable , detestable , execrable , then any ( even the worst of ) jealousies or suspicions whatsoever . if he would but authorize mee to reason after the rate of his logique in raising conclusions from his premisses , i could prove ( according to the tenor of such authoritie ) that mr. prynne hath written against the congregationall way , hath represented those that walk in it as extremely derogatory and destructive both unto the parliament and church of englend a , as great disturbers of our publique peace and unity b ; hath slandered them in their spirits , principles , practices , over and over c ; hath presumptuously attempted to infuse such dangerous principles as these into kings , magistrates , and highest civill powers , that they are christs substitutes , vicars , in point of government ( church-government hee speaks of a ) that christ hath delegated his kingly power unto them b , that it may passe as tolerable , that christ is king alone over his churches in matters of faith , c &c. with many others of like undue insinuation ; i could prove ( i say ) by the commission aforesaid , that mr. prynne hath done all these things on purpose to despite the spirit of god , to defame the gospel , to make the wayes of godlinesse and religion hatefull unto the world , to increase divisions , to multiply distractions , to bring a snare and evill day upon the parliament , to expose the whole kingdome to utter ruine and destruction . yea , the truth is , that there is a far more rationall connexion between the premises last mentioned from mr. pryn's pen , and such collections and conclusions as these ; then there is between those premises of mine transcribed by him , and the inferences which he extracts and deduceth from them . a man might think that the gentleman had by this time laid out himself to a sufficient proportion , in depraving both the expressions and intentions of him , that never ( to his best knowledge ) did him the least wrong , nor ever administred the least occasion of provocation ; — sed audi facinus majoris abollae . your last clause ( saith he , yet further , p. 108. ) and if continued , &c. intimates and speaks , aloud without any straining that the parliament for the present are guilty of dashing their foot against christ the rock : of claiming the most sacred incommunicable royalties and priviledges of heaven , and making themselves equall with god : and that if they persevere in the course they have begun ( to reforme our church , &c. ) it is such an high provocation against the most high , as will kindle a fire in the brest of him whose name is jehovah ; he should have said jealous , ( but that his pen hath contracted an ill habit of stumbling ) which will consume and devoure , &c. could all the malignant and prelaticall party in england lay a greater , wickeder , or more unjust scandall in our parliament then this , or more defame them then by such a false report ? enough to fire the whole kingdome against them , as well as gods wrath , &c. as it followeth in his most unjust and ignoble strain of calumny . but for answer , 1. doth a wicked or unjust scandall use to fire gods wrath against those upon whom it is cast , and who are the sufferers . though the sin committed be enough to kindle a fire in the brest of him whose name is jealous , against those , whosoever they be , that lie under the guilt of such a commission ; yet is there not the least colour to imagine , that the false or scandalous imputation of it unto any , should have the like operation , in respect of those that are so scandaliz'd . he tells me of my being a meer divine , p. 109. and a man altogether ignorant in the ancient rights and privileges of our parliament , ( with how little pertinencie or advantage to his cause , shall be taken into consideration in due place . ) and by such passages as this , it seems he is every whit as meer a lawyer as i a divine ( and consequently of no such super-transcendent abilities neither , to discerne and judge of the rights and privileges of parliament , as will be manifested in due time . ) for he that knowes not , that god is no wayes offended with men for having wicked & unjust scandals cast upon them , surely had need to be taught what are the first principles of the oracles of god a . and 2. whereas in the beginning of the last transcribed passage , he speakes thus , your last clause , and if continued , &c. intimates and speakes loud without any strayning , that , &c. doth hee not seem to rejoyce , as if now he had met with a full feast , and had onely scrambled for all he had gotten and satisfied his hunger with till now ? and doth he not without any strayning , seem to imply , that all my former clauses without straining , would have spake none of those things , which now by his rackes , screws , and engines , he hath made them to speak ? so that here we have confitentem rerum : oh that we had but the participle as well match'd as the adjective , that is ( by interpretation ) emendantem confitentem , and then let both our bookes to the fire together , to purge out the drosse of them b . but 3. the grand unhappinesse of the man is , that what i speake onely in thesi , or in the generall throughout the whole period or passage , wherein this clause , and if contemned , &c. stands , hee here represents upon the stage of his passion , as if it had been spoken in hypothesi , with particular and precise application to the parliament . the whole period , though it be somewhat long , yet that the reader may not be denied any part of his due in point of satisfaction , i shall transcribe , ab ovo usque ad mala , as it begins at the bottome of page 2. of my innocencies triumph . i confesse i am in the habituall and standing frame of my heart and spirit , tender and jealous over all the world , and much more over those who are deare unto me , but most of all over those who being deere unto me , are likewise more exposed then others unto the tentation and danger of the sinne ; extreamly jealous and tender ( i say ) i am over such , lest they should touch with any title , or claim the most sacred and incommunicable royalties and privileges of heaven , and so count it no robbery to make themselves equall to god ; knowing most assuredly , that this is a high provocation in the eyes of the most high , and if continued in , will kindle a fire in the breast of him whose name is jealous , and will consume and devoure . i confesse i spake in some passages before this , of the parliament by name ; nor doe i deny all relation between this and the former : but all the relation that can reasonably be imagined between the one and the other , will not amount so much as to a colourable justification of this high-handed and full-mouth'd charge , that the latter speaks aloud without any strayning , that the parliament is guilty of dashing , &c. of claiming , &c. and that if , &c. these are every whit as pure and clean straines of that disposition which acted in the former part of this exposition , as any of those other which have playd before us already . and 4. suppose the period had been perfectly hypotheticall , and the contents of it applied to the parliament by name , yet it is farre from speaking the dialect that mr. prynne would fain force into the mouth of it . he that shall represent the great evill or danger of a sinne , as suppose of oppression , drunkennesse , adultery , or the like , unto a man , in these or the like terms , know most assuredly , that such a sinne is a most high provocation in the eyes of the most high : and then should adde , and if continued in , will kindle a fire in the breast of him whose name is jealous , &c. doth no wayes suppose , that the person to whom such an addresse or representation is made , is under the present actuall guilt of the perpetration of such a sinne ; but onely demonstrates the dangerous and deadly consequence of it unto him , in case he shall be intangled with the guilt , and continue in the perpetration of it without repentance . therefore mr. prynnes lucubration and collection , that this clause , and if continued , &c. speaks aloud without any strayning , any such parliamentary guilt as he deciphers with his pen , is nocturnall , neither is there so much as a beam of the light of truth in it . 5. whereas he chargeth that innocently-offending clause of mine , and if continued , &c. both to intimate and speak aloud , and that without any straining , that high misdemeanour lately mentioned , ( little lesse then capitall to him that shall avouch it ) i cannot conceive any regular consistence in the charge . for though one and the same man , who hath a liberty and power both to alter his tone and voyce , and tenour of expression , may one while only intimate , i. whisper , or expresse a thing sparingly : and otherwhile , speake it out aloud , with a full and strong voyce , ( though hardly thus without any straining at all ) yet how one and the same clause in writing , which hath neither principle nor shadow of any variation or change of expression in it , but is still uniforme and standing both in the matter which , and in the manner wherein , it speaketh , should both intimate ( or whisper ) and yet speak aloud too , one and the same thing , is a saying divided in it selfe , and which my understanding knoweth not how to make to stand . but thus , god many times makes both tongues and pens which imagine evill against others , to f●ll upon themselves a . 6. and lastly , whereas he pretends the forementioned clause , and if continued , &c. guilty of speaking aloud and without any straining , the prenamed enormitie , the truth is , that this charge speaks aloud and without any straining , that mr. prynne loves all devouring words b , whether they be words of sobernesse and truth c , or of another inspiration . is it not very strange , and a miracles fellow ( at least ) if not a miracle , that mr. prynnes hearing should be so predominant in the world , that he alone should heare a loud s●eaking , where all the world besides could not heare the least muttering or whisper ? but when men have brick to make , and want straw , they must bee content to gather stubble in stead of it d . the builders of babel were fain to make use of slime in stead of mortar e . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , were a generation of men in plato's dayes , & the line ( it seems ) is not yet extinct . many other passages there are in this triumphing discourse , wherein the author doth miserable carnifice other words and passages of mine ; but caesars image and superscription may bee seen in a peny f , as well as in a pound . but because the great guerdon and crown for which mr. prynne runnes in this and other his lucubrations against me , is to transform me into a man of a ranc●●ous and disaffected heart against parliaments g , and to couple me with the worst malignants , royalists , cavaliers , yea with the arch-prelate himself a ; before i leave the point in hand , i shall briefly specifie , both what , in what degree i have done , and continue yet doing from opportunitie to opportunitie , to the utmost of my power , for the parliament : and withall solemnly professe in the sight of god and men , that if either mr. prynne , or any other man , can direct or say unto me , how , or what , when , or wherein i may yet doe more for them , or shew and expresse more love or affectionatenesse unto them , then i have already done , and still doe ( upon occasion ) daily ; provided onely that i may see and understand , that what shall be required of me in this kind , doth really and indeed , not in shew and pretence onely , tend to the benefit , honour and safetie of the parliament ; i am ready and willing , and doe by these presents obliege and bind my self , testibus coelo & terrâ , to performe . i have once b and againe c in print , with the utmost ingagement of my weak abilities in that kind , asserted the parliamentary cause against the oxfordian ; yea ( as far as i yet understand ) i was the first amongst all my brethren who serve at the altar , that rose up in this kind , for the parliament : with what exposall of my self to danger , on the one hand , and with what successe and advantage to the cause undertaken by me on the other , many there are that know , and ( i make no question ) are ready upon occasion to declare and testifie . how frequently , yea for many moneths together , when the parliamentarie occasions were most urging and pressing , ( almost ) uninterruptedly , and with what fervency and contestation of spirit , i laboured by preaching to advance the service ; yea with what alacritie and importunity , i continually sollicited and promoted all parliamentarie occasions , suits , and motions recommended by ordinance or otherwise ; was openly testified by a member of that honourable committee before which i was called , pending the complaint against me there . how many young men and others , as faithfull as usefull in the armie as any others of their rank and imployment whatsoever , what by preaching , what by conference and perswasion , were through the blessing of god , armed with courage and resolution by me for the warres , there are both in the citie , and in the armie , more then a few that can informe . nor is it unknowne to thousands , with what contention and striving of spirit , with what earnestnesse of prayer and supplication i have without ceasing in my publick prayers , commended the parliament with all their proceedings and affaires unto god ; nor have my later intercessions for them , either in strength of affection , or in any other desireable respect whatsoever , given place unto my former . without any disparagement to mr. prynnes orisons a be it spoken , i may conjecture i have been both as frequent , and desired to be as fervent in commending that honourable assembly with all their pious endeavours to the divine benediction , as himself . as touching pecuniary expressions of my self to and for the parliament , my affections may ( perhaps ) suffer losse and disadvantage in the thoughts of some , who measure by the arithmeticall , in stead of the geometricall proportion ( by which our saviour measured the poore widdows gift , cast into the treasury b , and every mans expressions of himself in this kind should be measured ) yet i make no question but i can produce speaking papers , ( yea and men too , if need be ) that will abundantly testifie , that i have not been behind many of those who are before me for matter of estate , and who are look'd upon too as men sound-hearted to the parliament . there hath no proposition for advance of moneys , been at any time recommended by the parliament unto the citie , that i know of , but hath been entertained by me with a full proportion of my estate . and look what i have been , and have appeared to be in publick , and in view of many ; the same have i bin also in all my more private intercourses and colloques with men ; strengthning the hands of some which began to be feeble and to hang downe , loosing the bands , resolving the doubts of others , so setting them at libertie to serve the parliament , who before were bound up , and could doe nothing . nor have i quitted my self at this rate in the parliamentary service , in or about the citie onely : but have been as diligent and faithfull an agent for them in the countrey also where i have become , and that not without some considerable successe . i am a foole ( i confesse ) to speak all this of my self : but mr. prynne hath compelled c me . if i be yet defective and wanting in any thing that is my dutie to doe for the parliament , if there be any other service or labour of love wherein i may yet further expresse my self to , and for them ; all the powers of my soule stand ready bent and prest within me to embrace the opportunitie , and to fall on upon the work . if for all this i must be numbred amongst men of rancorous and disaffected hearts against the parliament , i shall congratulate the felicitie of those that are better thought of ; and yet shall think mine own the more princely portion a . mala opinio benè parta delectat . a good conscience is never at the full of her sweetnesse , light , and glorie , but when uprightnesse suffers and is eclipsed : the antiperistasis of outward sufferings , intends the inward vigor and strength of that principle , out of which a good conscience acteth , when shee comforteth . if the affections of men to the parliament , must be compell'd to hold up their hand and be tryed at mr. prynnes barre , and the law ruling there be this , that whosoever will not adore mr. prynnes notion of an ecclesiasticall jurisdiction in the civill magistrate , and submit the cleare and lightsome decisions ( at least in the eye of their judgement & conscience ) of the oracles of god to the spirit that spake in old stories , statutes and records in the darkest times of popery , though they have given never so satisfactory and abundant an account of the goodnesse of their affection in this kind otherwise , must be condemned and cast as venemous malignants and underminers of the undoubted priviledges of parliaments , &c. i confesse , that my affection will not abide the tryall of this fire . neverthelesse , this i solemnly promise and professe , that if mr. prynne or any other , shall reasonably demonstrate unto me truth in either of these positions ; either 1. in this , that any thing is to be esteemed a priviledge , which is not for the benefit , good , or safety of those that shall injoy it ; or 2. in this , that such an ecclesiasticall jurisdiction or power , as mr. prynne in all or most of his discourses upon this subject portraictures and sets out , tends in the nature and constitution of it , to the benefit , safety or good of the parliament ; i shall soone be his convert , and cause my present apprehensions in the point to bowe downe at the feet of his . this for the second head propounded . for the third and last , the insufficiencie , or ( to speak the dialect of his own pen ) the impotencie , of those few exceptions which he makes against some few particulars in my innocencies triumph , such as he conceives ( it seems ) to be more soft and tractable under his exceptious pen . first , to salve a sore that will never be perfectly healed , to justifie ( i meane ) his indictment against me , that i did not only or simply undermine the undoubted priviledges of parliament by the very roots , ( this being not a charge , as it seems , worthy the indignation or discontent of mr. prynnes pen ) but that i perpetrated this high misdemeanour presvmptvovsly ; he informes us as matter of high concernment to his cause and honour , that grammarians , lawyers , and divines informe us , that the word , presumptuous , comes from the verb , praesumo : which verb he presumes will accommodate him with one or other of those various significations , which with great care and circumspection that none be wanting , he there musters and enumerates . and because the honour and validitie of this his purgation rests altogether upon such significations or acceptions of his verb , as are most mens mysteries ; therefore in his margent he calls in thomas aquinas , calepine , with some others , for his compurgators . but good sir ; did you either expect or intend , that either the parliament or your other readers , should be so above measure tender either of your reputation or of mine , as that meeting with the word presvmptvovsly in your indictment against me , they would goe and search calepine , thomas aquinas , holy-oake , media-villa , and i know not how many more , to informe themselves in how many senses or significations the word might be taken , lest otherwise they should take you tardy with an unjust crimination , or me with a foule crime ? what you may conceive them likely to doe in this kind out of tendernesse of respect to your reputation , i will not prejudge : but to deale plainly with you , i expect no such quarter from any of your readers , for the preservation of mine . they that have a mind to beleeve you in that point of your charge , ( yea and indeed any other , considering other expressions of yours of the like importance ) are like to take the word presumptuously , according to the vulgar and most familiar signification of it in common parlance , and that which is next at hand : in which signification , it doth nothing lesse then import all that varietie you speak of , but a plaine wilfull ( as your word elsewhere is ) perpetration of an evill ; and as for the three last significations which you fasten upon it , as that it signifies , against authoritie , or lawes , or upon hopes of impunitie ; though i have not the authors by me upon whom you father the proprietie of these significations , to examine the truth of what in this you affirme ; yet am i very strong of faith , that men of learning and judgement ( as most of the authors you cite were ) never assigned any of these three senses or importances , as the proper and legitimate acceptions or significations of the word . when john the baptist told herod ( a man in great authoritie ) to his face , that it was not lawfull for him to have herodias his brother philips wife a , was this done presvmptvovsly , especially in the proper signification of the word ? againe , when shadrach , meshach and abednego refus'd to submit to that decree or law which nebuchadnezzar and his nobles had made , which commanded all to fall downe and worship the golden image which the king had set up b ; and so when daniel trangress'd that law or statute which darius and his nobles had decreed and established according to the law of the medes and persians , which altereth not c , by kneeling upon his knees three times a day , praying unto , and praising god , with his chamber-window open towards jerusalem ; did either of these sin , or doe any thing ( under the interpretation aforesaid ) presvmptvovsly ? mr. prynne himself ( i presume ) dedicated these his lucubrations to the parliament , upon hopes , yea upon more then hopes of impunitie , upon hopes of grace and acceptation : hath he therefore done presvmptvovsly ? i am content in this sense to own the word presvmptvovsly , in my prementioned charge ; and confesse that i did that , which he ( calling it quite out of its name ) calls an undermining of the undoubted priviledges of parliament , &c. presvmptvovsly . i. i did upon hopes , yea and somewhat more then upon hopes of impunitie , upon hopes of acceptation both with god and men . and if mr. prynne would have pleas'd but to have declar'd in his margent or otherwise , that in the aforesaid indictment he meant the word , presvmptvovsly , in this sense , and no other ; he had saved me a double , and himself a single labour , ( if not a double also ) for i should not have lift up so much as a word of exception against it . but let us see a little , how like a man he quits himself in vindicating the truth and equitie of his so-dearly-beloved terme , presvmptvovsly , as it stands , or lies , ( which you will ) in the controverted indictment . his first signification of the verb praesvmo , is to forestall ; and to prove that in this sense of the word , i committed the capitall crime objected presvmptvovsly , he reasons , or rather talks , thus . first you preached and printed those passages of purpose to forestall the parliaments and assemblies pious resolutions , &c. but mr. prynne , there is a rule in the civill law ( and because there is so much reason in it , i conceive your common law complyes with it ) which sounds thus ; non esse , & non appaerere , aequiparantur in jure . how will you doe for witnesse , or evidences competent in law , to make it appeare that i printed and preached the passages you speak of , for such a purpose as you pretend ? can you find the present thoughts or purposes of all particular men in this age , in the ancient records which beare date , from the darkest times of popery ? or hath the omniscient anointed your eyes with any such eye-salve , which makes you able to see into the hearts and reins and spirits of men ? or have i acknowledged either in writing or otherwise , any such intent or purpose as you speak of , in those passages ? or is it beyond the upper region of possibilities , that i should have any other purpose in them , then what you affirme ? when you print , that i printed the passages you mention of purpose to forestall the pious resolutions of the parliament ; doe you print this of pvrpose to forestall the pious inclinations or resolutions of the parliament , not to make more offenders by punishment , then were made such before by delinquencie ? or when you printed , that christ hath delegated his kingly office unto kings , magistrates , and highest civill powers a , did you print it of purpose to make them think that they had as much power and authoritie to make lawes for his churches , as christ himself hath ? such affirmations and right-downe conclusions as these , are worse then the most uncharitable , unchristian , detestable , execrable , groundlesse , fanatique jealousies b . the second signification of the auxiliarie verb , praesvmo , is ( as mr. prynne from his authors , or otherwise , informs us ) to conceive before-hand : and to prove that in this sense i trespassed the trespasse of his complaint , presvmptvovsly , he advanceth with this demonstration . 2. to establish and support that independent way which you had before-hand without any lawfull warrant conceived , ere the parliament had made choyce of , or setled any church-government for them , &c. but good sir , hath no man a lawfull warrant to consider , inquire after , ( and consequently , to conceive ) what christ hath established in point of church-government , untill the parliament hath made choyce of , or setled such a government ? every man hath warrant enough , yea and that which is more then a warrant , an ingagement by way of dutie lying upon him ; especially divines ( as you call them ) whose particular calling and profession it is to search the scriptures , and to discover the mind of christ there , to conceive before-hand , if they be able , what tenour or forme of church-government is most agreeable to the mind of christ ; and not to suspend their studies , inquiries , conceptions in that kinde , untill men have fram'd their conceptions or apprehensions for them . the parliament had not made choyce of , nor setled any church-government for mr. edwards , when he compos'd and printed his antapologie ? did he therefore presvmptvovsly , to conceive it before-hand , and so peremptorily conclude for it as he hath done ? whether yet they have made choyce of any , or no , i cannot say ; i have no demonstrative grounds to think they have : but certain i am that they as yet have setled none , and so are still at libertie to choose another , in case they have chosen any . hath not mr. prynne then done presvmptvovsly , to conceive a government before-hand , and to print for it , the parliament as yet having chosen none , or however , setled none ? if mr. prynne being a lawyer , had a lawfull warrant to , conceive a church-government before-hand , as he hath done , church-matters being eccentricall to his profession ; much more hath he that is a divine , and neverthelesse because he is a meere one . neither can the five apolog. be said to have done this first , because they rather shew their own practise and desire libertie therin , then peremptorily , ( as some others ) prescribe to others under the notion of schismatiques and troublers of the publick peace , if they be not of their minds in all things , about what they practise and professe , as ( in their judgements ) most agreeable to the truth . a third signification of the verb we wot of , is according to mr. prynnes lexicographie , to usurp or take that upon a man which belongs not to him . and to prove that in this sense also i am a son of presvmption in the transgression voted by mr. prynnes pen , upon me , he riseth up higher then yet in this insulting straine . it was no lesse then high presvmption in you , being a meere divine , and a man altogether ignorant of , or unskilfull in the ancient rights and priviledges of our parliament ( as your writings demonstrate , and your self intimate , p. 5. ) to undertake and judge of them so peremptorily — when as if you had knowne any thing concerning them , you might have learned this among other things , that divines are no competent judges of parliaments priviledges : that the priviledges , rights and cujiomes of our parliaments , are onely to be judged and determined by the parliament it selfe , not in or by any other inferiour court , &c. in this passage there are some things true , and some things false ; and both the the one and the other make aloud and without straining , against the author , and neither of them against me at all . for , 1. if i be a man altogether ignorant if the ancient rights and privileges of parliament , how come i to be charged , as a wilfull underminer or violator of them a ? ignorance though it bee good for little , but to cause men to stumble and doe amisse ; yet it is ( for the most part ) a preserver of men from offending wilfully , how ever it selfe may be a wilfull offence . those things ( saith aristotle ) appeare to bee involuntary , b or unwillingly done , which are done either by externall compulsion , or out of ignorance . if i judge mr. prynne ignorant of that government which the scriptures hold forth , i cannot reasonably judge him a wilfull opposer of it . 2. if the privileges , rights and customes of our parliaments , be onely to be judged and determined by the parliament it selfe , and not in or by any other inferior court , how comes mr. prynne by his authority or commission to judge and determine , that i have wilfully violated , presumptuously undermined the undoubted privileges of parliament , by the very roots ? surely he hath not the power which an inferiour court of judicature hath , much lesse is he the parliament it selfe : and yet he undertakes to judge and determine , & that positively and negatively , ( which i doe not ) not onely the privileges themselves of parliament , but the very roots also of these privileges . if according to his own assertion , he hath no power or authority to judge or determine of the privileges we speak of , why doth he judge and censure me as a presumptuous underminer and violator of these privileges ? can any man reasonably passe a sentence against another as a delinquent in such and such cases , when as the cases themselves are not of his cognizance , nor lawfull for him to judge of ? 3. if the privileges and rights of our parliament bee onely to bee judged by the parliament it selfe , upon what christian or indeed reasonable foundation , shall we a vouch the taking of the late nationall vow and covenant , wherein with our hands lifted up to the most high god ( among other things ) we sweare , that wee would sincerely , really , and constantly , in our severall vocations , endevour with our estates , and lives , mutually to preserve the rights and privileges of parliament , &c. did we sweare in this most tremend and solemne manner , to preserve those things , not onely that wee know not what they are , but which it is not lawfull for us to enquire after , at least , not to judge and say what they are after our most diligent and faithfull enquiry after them ? if before the taking of this covenant , i had conceived , that whatsoever mr. prynne should please to avouch for privilege of parliament , i should have stood bound by the covenant taken , to maintain with my estate and life , for such ; i should rather have exposed both to the mercy and equity of the parliament by refusing it , then both these and my selfe besides , to the displeasure of god , by such an unchristian , yea unreasonable and unmanlike action . besides , parliament privileges are either fundamentall , generall , and common rights of all nationall bodies , or else peculiar to this state ; and so also they are either such as are by their constant practice commonly declared , or else more reserved for occasional emergencies . the two former are obvious to judge of ; and the latter also apprehensible upon their discovery of them , especially with their grounds , else how could they have been assisted in the defence of them all this time ? 4. whereas he vilifies , or insults over me as being a meere divine , i confesse i have not much to except against the disparagement ; yet i desire leave to speak these three things . 1. that if mr. prynne himselfe had been a meere divine , he had chosen the better part : and if he yet knew how to tranforme the skill which hee hath in the law , into a like proportion of sound divinity , he and the church should gain by it ; so great plenty is there of good lawyers , and so few faithfull labourers in gods harvest . 2. though i pretend to no great knowledge in any other science , but to that which is the glory of all the rest ( divinity i mean ) no nor yet to one halfe of that knowledge in this , which my years and opportunities , had not i been a sonne of folly and infirmities above many , might well have furnished me with ; yet can i not with truth yeeld my selfe so meerly a divine , as not to understand many principles and maximes of reason , besides those which i have learned from the scriptures ; as that every whole is more then any part of it : that no effect can possibly exceed the vertue or efficacy of the totall cause thereof : that one part of any contradiction is verifiable of every thing : that the good of many other circumstances being alike , is to be preferred before the like good of one , or of a few : with many others of affinity with these . by the authority and aid of which alone , without the concurrence or assistance of any principle at all , proper to the science of divinity , i know ( god assisting ) i am able to make good the ground which i have chosen to stand upon in the controversies depending between mr. prynne and me . yea , i should injure mine own ignorance and weaknesse , and censure them too deep , if i should deny but that i know somewhat in other arts and sciences also . 3. and lastly , if i be a meer divine , i remember i have read some such observation as this for my comfort , that when the streame of endevours is divided , the waters of knowledge run but shallow in a plurality of channels , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . but 5. whereas he lifts up this iron mace on high , and thinkes to break all in peeces like a potters vessell , that i have either said , or ever shall be able to say , to escape the push of his pike , presumptuously , wherewith he makes at me in the pre-recited charge , that divines are no competent judges of parliaments privileges ; and that therefore it was no lesse then presumption , nay then presumption upon presumption , then high presumption for me being a meer divine , and a man altogether ignorant in the ancient rights and privileges of our parliaments , to undertake to determine and judge of them so peremptorily , &c. i answer . 1. if i had been altogether ignorant of the rights and privileges of parliament , i was not so capable of ingaging my selfe by that solemne vow , which is now upon me , for the maintaining of them sincerely , really , constantly , &c. for though a man may indefinitely swear to maintain the just rights of such or such a body , though he know them not all distinctly , yet that he may sweare in judgement , it is requisite he be not altogether ignorant of them . so that if mr. prynnes doctrine in this point be true , it is more then time for me to flie from my covenant , as from a serpent , and to abhorre my selfe in dust and ashes before the presence of god , that ever i took it . but blessed be god , my ignorance of the rights and privileges of parliaments , is not such , but that i know many of them : these by name ( questionlesse ) are some of them ; to bee the soveraigne tribunall , and supreme judicatory in the kingdome : to have a legislative power in civill affaires in respect of the whole kingdome : to have a power of discharging or repealing all former lawes and statutes that are found inconvenient for the state and kingdome : to dispose of the militia of the kingdom , for the safety and best advantage thereof : to impose rates and taxes of money for the necessary occasions of the kingdome ; to call even the greatest delinquents in the kingdome to account , and to inflict punishments upon them according to the nature of their crimes : to defend , protect , and encourage , and that with an higher hand then others can doe , those that doe well , and live peaceably , and are serviceable in their callings and imployments to the state . besides many others like unto the starres in the firmament of heaven , which cannot be numbred . 2. whereas mr. prynne to make light of darknesse , and to cover the shame of his darling ( presumptuously ) with honor , thrusts divines out of doors , as no competent judges of parliaments privileges , he must know from a meer divine ( if there be any place left in him for an addition in that kind , and intus apparens doth not prohibere alienum , with too strong an hand ) that divines in one respect , & that of soveraigne consideration , are judges of a better & more regular competencie of such things , then lawyers are , ( without prejudice to that profession be it spoken ) yea & the meerer divine ( in m. pryns sense ) the more competent judge in this kind , as the meere physitian a more competent judge of medicines then others . there is a double judgement or dijudication of parliament privileges : the one positive or affirmative , the other privative or negative . the positive or affirmative judgement wee speake of , consists in a faculty or ability of discerning what really and indeed are the privileges of parliament : the judgement which i call negative , consists in the like faculty or ability of discerning , what are not . for this is a most certain and undoubted maxime , that nothing that is sinfull , or contrary to the will and word of god , can possibly be a privilege of parliament . the reason whereof is plain : nothing that in the nature and direct tendencie of it , is dishonourable or destructive to a creature , can possibly bee any privilege thereof . now whatsoever is sinfull , and displeasing unto god , is in the nature and direct tendencie of it , dishonourable and destructive to the creature , as the whole tenour of the scriptures ( almost ) yea and the impressions of naturall light and conscience in all men , doe abundantly confirme . ergo . so then the scriptures or word of god being the standard or supreme rule whereby to judge what is sinfull , and consequently destructive to the creature , and what not ; evident it is , that they who reasonably may be presum'd to have the best knowledge and soundest understanding in these , are the most competent judges ( from amongst men ) in all cases and questions , about what is sinfull , and what not . and whether meere lawyers , or meere divines , may with more reason be presum'd to be men of this interest , let either lawyers themselves , or divines , or who ever will , judge . i had not known sinne ( saith the apostle a ) but by the law : he speaks of the law of god , not of any law of men . and another apostle to like purpose : whosoever committeth sinne , transgresseth also the law : for sinne is the transgression of the law b ; speaking as the other did , onely of the law of god . now howsoever mr. prynnes meer divines cannot reasonably bee supposed to have spent so much of their time in traversing and reading over the ancient records of parliamentary transactions , as lawyers have , nor consequently to be so able or ready as they , to tell stories in this kind , of what parliaments formerly have done ; yet when any case of conscience , or question ariseth , about such and such customes or passages in parliaments , ( call them rights , privileges , or what you will ) whether they were lawfull in point of conscience , and justifiable in the sight of god , or no , the meere lawyer with his bookes and records , must stand by , as having neither part nor fellowship in this judicature ; the meere divine is the only competent judge in the case ; yea , and this is confirmed by parliaments themselves , who have decreed that in some courts and cases , clergy-men , as some call them , should fit , and was the custome till very lately in london it selfe , the bishop usually and by right sitting at the sessions of life and death ; yea , and in case of life , if the clergyman saith , legit ut clericus , the law saves the man . and if mr. prynne conceives , that all customes or presidents of parliaments will make privileges of parliament , i conceive the present parliament will abhorre his conception ; many of them being only matter of sorrow , shame and caution , not of privilege or example . so then to deale clearly and unpartially between lawyers and divines , touching their respective abilities and interests for discerning and judging of the customes , rights and privileges ( so called ) of parliaments ; the lawyers interest and facultie ( if he be a master in his profession ) as such ( i mean as a meere lawyer ) is to collect , draw together , and present to view , all , and all manner of parliamentary transactions , passages , statutes , customes , presidents , &c. good and bad , one with another , without distinction , out of their respective records : but the interest and faculty of the divine ( if he be a man worthy his profession ) is to survey this collection presented unto him , to consider whether there be nothing in them contrary to the will and mind of god declared in his word : ( which contrariety dissolves the authority and interest of any statute , custome , president , whatsoever ) and so to separate the vile from the pretious a , that which hath a consistence with the word of god , from that which opposeth and contradicteth it . the entrie series or story of parliamentary passages , is like the polypus head , wherein there are observed to bee {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , many good things , and many bad ; the statutes of moses , and the statutes of omri , the manner of the house of david , and the manner of the house of ahab , are intermixed and wrapped up together there . now alas , with the meere lawyer ( i speak of him , as such , and not as christian or godly ) all is fish that comes to net , all this congregation is holy , even every one of them b ; every statute without exception , if unrepeal'd on earth , though nullified in heaven before it was made , is still valid , and good in law ; every custome , without difference , an undoubted privilege of parliament : every passage a sufficient president for after-imitation , the statutes of omri as good for his turn , and in his eye , as the statutes of moses : the manner of the house of ahab , as laudable as the manner of the house of david , or of the house of god himselfe : as is the good , so is the bad , ( to him ) the statute that curseth , as that which blesseth a land . all this is evident from that voluminous coacervation of old matters , passages , presidents , &c. by mr. prynne himselfe in the former part of this discourse , many of them ( as himselfe intimates c ) fetch'd out of the darkest times of popery , and highest ruff of pope , of prelates : and yet thinkes that these are enough to evict and convince me and all the world besides , that i have not only violated , but denied , oppugned the privileges of parliament in ecclesiasticall affairs d . in the case last presented , except the divine shall come with his fire from heaven , to separate and purge the tinne from the silver , and the drosse from the gold , and be as the mouth of the lord to take away the vile from the pretious a , that enmity unto god , and that unrighteousnesse which cleaveth , and is like to cleave ( notwithstanding all that the meere lawyer is able to doe by way of reliefe ) unto many the lawes and statutes of a state or kingdome , is like to be first an heavie scourge , and rods of scorpions , for the punishment of the state ; and in fine , the utter ruine and destruction of it . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( saith the apostle b ) i. the wisdome of the flesh is death : the reason whereof he gives in the next verse , which is this , because the wisdome of the flesh is enmity against god . so that wheresoever there is any enmity against god , especially if it utters it selfe in any the consultations , acts , or results of the wisdom of the flesh , it disposeth the subject wherein it is sound , whether it be person , family , state , or kingdome , unto death . and whether this enmity against god which wee speake of , sound in some of our lawes & statutes yet unrepeal'd ( if not in more then is generally observed and knowne ) hath not made god an enemy unto us , and strengthened the arm of his displeasure and indignation against us , i leave to divines of sound judgement and conscience , to consider : yea and to such lawyers who have sanctified their profession with the sound knowledge of the word of god and prayer . by what hath been argued in this last passage , evident it is , that the skill , faculty , and interest of the divine , ( yea of the meere divine ) to discerne and judge of the customes , rights , privileges of parliament , is farre more usefull and necessary , then that of the meere lawyer . the reason is plaine ; because there is no manner of doubt or question to be made , but that whatsoever is not sinfull & prohibited by the word of god for them to doe , is an undoubted privilege of parliament , without the authority or contribution of former passages or records : and on the contrary , whatsoever is sinfull and displeasing unto god , can never make privilege , as hath been already argued and proved . now then the faculty or skill of the lawyer , as such , excending it self only to the conquisition and mustering together former transactions , passages and records of parliament , or at most to assist in the literall explanation or interpretation of them ; but matter of sin , and what is lawfull by the law of god , belonging properly to the cogniance of the divine , it is as evident as evidence it self in her highest exaltation can make is , that divines are more usefull , necessary , yea and competent judges ( in the saense declared ) of parliamentary priviledges , then lawyers are : notwithstanding to the last recited passage i answer 3. and lastly ; that whereas my adversary chargeth me , to have determined and judged of the ancient rights and privileges of our parliaments so peremptorily , &c. that this charge is like all or most of the rest , undue untrue ; i doe not meddle with any ancient right or priviledge of parliament ; i onely argue and work upon the principles of mine own profession , the scriptures and word of god : if these in their naturall and proper inclination , ducture , and tendencie , lead me to any such position or conclusion , which enterfeers with something which mr. prynne will needs call an ancient right or priviledge of parliament , it is meerly accidentall , and which i cannot with my allegeance to heaven , nor otherwise then at the utmost perill of my soule , no nor without a sinfull prevarication with that dutie which i owe to the state i live in , decline . and therefore whereas the 4th signification which the gentleman finds of the verb praesumo ( to salve the miscarriage of his pen , in the word , presvmptvovsly ) is to doe a thing before a man be lawfully called to it , and hereupon tells me that i had no lawfull calling or warrant from gods word or our lawes to handle the jurisdictions and rights of parliament in my pulpit , &c. and concludes against me without bayle or mainprize , that in this i was presvmptvovs by the scriptures owne definition , 2 pet. 2. 10. i answer , 1. that the apostle peter in the place cited , gives no definition at all , of the word , presumptuous , but onely speaks of a wicked generation of men , who walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleannesse , and despise government , presumptuous , self-willed , and they are not afraid to speak evill of dignities . can a man gather any definition of presumption , or of a presumptuous man , from hence ? when the apostle paul confesseth himself to have been a blasphemer , persecutor a , &c. doth he give any definition of either ? i had rather mr. prynne should call me a presumptuous man a thousand times over , then that he should be able once to prove it out of any definition of st peter . the scriptures which mr. prynne still citeth , are acknowledged to be very good ; but he imployeth them against their wills ; and so their goodnesse and his purpose , doe not greet or kisse each other . but 2. whereas he tells me i had no warrant from gods word , or our lawes to handle the jurisdictions or rights of parliament in my pulpit , &c. i first demand what warrant from gods word or our lawes hath he , thus to calumniate a minister of the gospel , onely for his faithfulnesse to god and men ; to wring , wrest , and wier-draw his words and sayings , as he hath done these ten times ( at least ) in this and his other writings ? i shall have my warrant , and that authentique enough , to shew for what i have done , when his will be to seek for what he hath done , and ( that which is worse ) will no where be found . as for his charge , that i handle the jurisdictions and rights of parliament in my pulpit , &c. it is but a dead corps of an accusation , without any life or soule of truth in it at all ; and may well be reputed free of the company of his other not more foule then false criminations . i never handled any such theame or subject in my pulpit as he talks of , except it were in pleading the justnesse of their cause in the present warres , against the determinations of the oxford schooles . i trust mr. prynne will forgive me this offence . but 3. if by handling the rights and jurisdictions of parliaments , he means those passages wherein i argued against the lawfulnesse of submitting unto any government from men , except it be agreeable also to the word of god , and mind of christ ; or against any lawfulnesse of power in any civill magistrate or magistracie whatsoever , to make any such lawes or statutes in matters of religion , and which concerne the worship of god , whereunto the servants of god shall stand bound under mulcts and penalties to submit , whether they can with a good conscience submit unto them , or no ; if this be the tenor of my charge , i answer , that i have warrant both from the law of god , and from the laws of the land also , as farre as i understand them , ( and i hope i understand them sufficiently in this ) to doe whatsoever i have herein done . the warrant of a law , ( whether we speak of the law of god , or of the law of men ) for an action , doth not stand onely in a positive or expresse injunction , or declaration in the law , that such or such an action , either must , or may be done : but also in the totall silence of the law , ( directly and by evident consequence ) as touching any restraint or prohibition of the action . it is true , the totall silence of humane lawes concerning many actions , doth not simply and absolutely warrant them for lawfull or good , ( though this be true concerning the divine law ) but it warrants them sufficiently against any crime imputable , against any censure or punishment infligible by the authoritie of such lawes . where no law is ( saith the apostle a ) there is no transgression . so then , if amongst all the laws and statutes of the land , there be no one law or statute to be found , which prohibiteth or restraineth a minister of the gospel from declaring and making known the whole counsell of god b unto men , ( of which wretched import i know none , yea i am securely confident that there is none ) then have i warrant sufficient , in respect of our laws , both to preach and print whatsoever i have done either in the one or in the other , in the passages aforesaid : because in them i have neither preached nor printed any thing , but what is part of the counsell of god , as i have abundantly manifested & made good , in severall tracts , especially in that which was last published c , against all opposition and counter-reasonings whatsoever . as for the word of god , i have not onely a warrant from thence , to doe all that i did in the premises , but ( that which is more then a warrant , in the sense specified ) precept upon precept , injunction upon injunction , command upon command : yea i stand here most deeply and dreadfully charged , as i will answer it at the great and terrible day , when the lord jesus christ shall be revealed from heaven , with his mightie angels , in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not god , and that obey not the gospel of our lord jesus christ d , to doe that which i did in the passages excepted against . i charge thee therefore ( saith the apostle to timothy , a minister of the gospel ) before god and the lord jesus christ , who shall judge the quick and dead at his appearing and his kingdome : preach the word : be instant , in season , out of season ; reprove , rebuke , exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine . for e , &c. peruse the other scriptures presented unto you in the margent f ; behold , they lift up their voyces together , calling , crying out amaine for all diligence , faithfulnesse , zeale , undauntednesse of courage and resolution in those who are entrusted with that great dispensation of the mind and counsell of god in the behalf of the world , in the discharge of this most high and honourable trust committed unto them . and therefore for mr. prynne to charge me with boldnesse , daringnesse , audaciousnesse , &c. for sticking to , standing by , and maintaining what i have said and done out of faithfulnesse both unto god and men , and according to the true tenor and intent of my commission from heaven ; is as childish and weak , as if i should charge him with boldnesse , daringnesse , audaciousnesse , for eating his bread , or pleading the righteous cause of his honest client . he mistakes his mark day and way , if he thinks either to ( rayle i might truely say , or ) threaten me out of the way and course of my dutie , by his great words . through christ strengthning me , it is as easie for me to beare all his unjust and hard sayings , as it is for him to speak them : to stand under , and carry the greatest burthen of infamie and reproach , as it is for him to lay it on ; yea to suffer the worst and hardest of sufferings , as it is for him to procure them . he that cannot {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and that at any rate whatsoever , will never make good souldier indeed for jesus christ . his pen ( i hope ) you see , hath not prospered hitherto , in pleading the cause of his client , presumptuously : he cannot finde any one signification of the word , that will stick or fasten . the fift and last signification , which he insists upon , is this . the verb ye wot of , praesvmo , yet further signifies , to doe a thing boldly , confidently , or rashly , without good grounds , &c. to help himself at the dead lift he is now at , by this signification of his verb , he sets on thus ; after you were questioned before a committee of parliament for those very passages in your first sermon , as exceeding scandalous and derogatory to the members and privileges of parliament , yet you in a daring manner , whilst you were under examination , audaciously preached over the same againe for substance in your pulpit on a solemne fast day , and published them with additions in no lesse then two printed books : yea since your very censure by the committee for them , you have in a higher straine then ever gone on to justifie them in print once more , in your innocencies triumph ( like an incorrigible delinquent ) wherein you slander the parliament more then before , &c. where before i answer , observe 1. that the signification here insisted upon is , lower then the charge ; it signifies to doe boldly , &c. but his charge is , that i did it presumptuously . 2. in this great muster-roll of the severall significations of his verb praesumo , he passes over , and forgets to list the common or generall acceptation of the word , as it is usually taken amongst us , and as any author that writes english uses to be understood ; viz. for a wilfull and high-handed commission of some wicked thing . but for answer ; 1. what logick is there in all this rhetorick to prove , that what i did in the passages under contest , i did rashly or without good grounds ? here is nothing so much as in pretence ( in reality no where else ) to disable those grounds upon which those passages stand . 2. how unkindly he deales with the truth , in affirming , 1. that i preached over the same again for substance or a solemne fast day . 2. that i published them with additions in no lesse then two printed books , whilst i was under examination ; hath been already presented to view towards the beginning of this discourse . and here wee have yet more ( besides these ) ejusdem farinae , ( seu potius , furfaris ) as 1. that the passages in my first sermon were exceeding scandalous , and derogatory to the members and privileges of parliament : there hath been nothing yet proved , nor ( i beleeve ) ever will or can be proved , that there was any thing in this sermon , not only not exceeding scandalous and derogatory , &c. but not scandalous or derogatory in the least or lightest manner or degree either to any member , or any privilege of parliament whatsoever . 2. that since my very censure by the committee for them , i have gone on to justifie them in an higher strain then ever , in my innocencies triumph . mr. prynne i see is no astronomer , to take the altitude or elevation of a strain in rhetorick ; if hee were , he would be ashamed of this calculation , that in my innocencies triumph i justifie my passages in a higher straine then ever . whosoever reads this little peece , cannot lightly but see and confesse , that all along i creep as neere the ground as any man ( lightly ) can goe . 3. that in my said innocencies triumph i slander the parliament more then before . here wee have untruth upon untruth , position upon supposition , and both vanity . for this assertion 1. supposeth , that i had slandered the parliament before , ( wherein i am certain mr. prynne slanders me : ) and 2. i affirmeth , that i slander it a second time more then i did before . if he had contented himself only to have said , that in my innocencies triumph i slander the parliament as much as i did before , he had spoke a kind of truth , though of very slender importance . 4. that i was censured by the committee for the passages in my sermon . if by censured he means sequestred ( as by the tenor of all he writes concerning me in this discourse , it should seem he doth ) granting the truth of the act or censure it selfe ( which yet to me is very questionable , upon the reasons formerly mentioned ) yet i cannot beleeve but that mr. prynnes pen faulters in assigning the grounds or reasons of the censure . it will not enter into me , to conceive a thought so dishonorable to that honorable committee , as that they should suspend or sequester a minister of jesus christ , who hath in all things from the first to the last , approved himselfe faithfull unto them , and to that honorable cause wherein they are ingaged , for preaching his judgement and conscience in a point of doctrine , having such substantiall and weighty grounds both from the scriptures themselves , and otherwise , ( which i then in part accounted unto them , and am still ready to perfect the account , if called to it ) to conceive and judge is none other but the very truth of god . 3. and lastly , whereas he brands me for an incorrigible delinquent , and elswhere for one impenitent after censure a . i answer and confesse , 1. that i am incorrigible indeed , by a crooked rule , as the apostles themselves were , when being charged and commanded by a whole councell , not to speak at all , or teach in the name of jesus , they notwithstanding professed , that they could not but speak the things which they had seen and heard b . rectitude is alwayes unrectifiable , i. incorrigible : and 2. i answer and confesse yet further , that i am impenitent also in respect of that wherein i know no unrighteousnes , or sin . the truth is , i am conscious to my self of too many sinnes and failings in my selfe , to cast away my repentance upon such things as need it not if i can find repentance for all my finnes , i shall leave all my other actions to be lamented and mourned over by the world . if mr. prynne will indict me for such incorrigiblenesse and impenitency as these , so be it : i know the great judge of heaven and earth will acquit me . and thus you see that mr. pryn still stands as a man convicted of an unrighteous charge in the word presumptuously ; haeret lateri lathalis arundo : the arrow sticks still in his sides , and all his wringling and wresting , and pulling , cannot get it out . his last charge and contest against me in this peece , is , that the authors which i cite to justifie my selfe , are miserably wrested and mistaken for the most part . the common saying is , that it 's ill halting before a creeple ; the proverb seems to import some dexterousness of faculty in him that halts continually , to take those tardy who onely counterfeit , and doe that by way of designe , which himselfe doth out of necessitie . the truth is , though mr. prynne may reasonably be conceived to have a more sagacious facultie then other men , of taking those with the very manner , who wrest authors and mistake their meaning , as being a man so familiarly exercised in the practise himself ( i speak of his writings against my self ) yet either his skill fails him , or his will stands too fast by him , in the sentence pronounced against me in this kind ; as will appear presently . in the mean while , i cannot but take notice of that expression , mistaken for the most part , as an expression of the greatest caution and care , that ( to my best remembrance ) i have met with in all that he hath written against me . it is very rare to find any of his uncharitable assertions concerning me , at all bridled or corrected with any allay of any diminutive , lenitive , limitation or restraint : but the saying ( i remember ) is , that he goes farre , that never returns . but let us hearken unto his complaint of the behalf of those authors , whom he so bewaileth , as being miserably wrested by me . the first is his friend mr. edwards , from whose unaunswerable a piece of presbyterie , i cite this passage , the parliament interposeth no authority to determine , what government shall be ; and gather upon it thus ; therefore his opinion appears to be ( not , as mr. prynne , whose pen i see loves to play at small game in mis-reports , rather then sit out , recites it soon after ; therefore his opinion is ) either that the parliament hath no authoritie , or at least intends not to make use of it , it determining a government . how miserably this good well-meaning author is by me wrested , he declares thus : it was written onely with reference to the present time , the parliament having at that time when he writ ( during the assemblies debate and consultation ) interposed no authority is determine what government shall be . but good sir , though you ( it may be ) hit the meaning of the author better then i , having and the opportunity to consult with him about it , which i have not ; yet i am sure i hit the meaning of his words better then you . if men and their words will be of two different minds and meanings , i confesse their meanings may very easily be mistaken , not by me onely , but by those that are wiser , and farre more able then i to understand stand the force and proper import of words . and yet now i come upon this occasion to review my expression , i find it more cautions and warie , then i can remember my self to have been in the calculation or inditing of it ; and altogether free even from that cavilling and shifting exception , which is here made against it . for i do not absolutely say or conclude , that his opinion was or is either so or so , ( as mr. prynne , pro more suo , chargeth me to do ) but onely that it appears to be either the one or the other : and i think there is scarce any that understands english , from the child that hath new learn'd his primer , to the greatest master in the language , but will acknowledge an appearance at least of one or other of those opinions in the words . and how anomalous and sharking that interpretation of the words , which mr. prynne would force upon them , is , will best appear by comparing the words and interpretation with other expressions of the same grammaticall character and construction both in the same author , and in others . when ( p. 170. of his antapologie ) he cites this saying out of zanchie ; that which doth not disturbe the publique peace — the magistrate proceedeth not against ; doth he imagine that the meaning of this author was to confine that non-proceeding of the magistrate he speaks of , to the particular and precise time of his writing ; as if then indeed he did not so proceed , but at all other times he did . so again when himself ( p. 169. of the same tract ) saith thus , the power of the magistrate by which he punisheth sin , doth not subserve to the kingdom of christ the mediator ; can any reasonable man think that his meaning onely should be , that this power of the magistrate which he speaks of , doth not thus subserve whilest he is in speaking or writing it ; but that afterwards it may , or doth subserve in such a kind ? apagè nugas ! when the evangelist john , speaking of christ , saith thus : this was the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world b ; is his meaning that christ performed that act of grace he speaks of , enlightened men coming into the world , onely whilest he was writing his gospel , and that afterwards he suspended it ? in such constructions of speech as this , the common rule of divines ( touching matter of interpretation ) is , that verbum praesentis notat actum continuum seu consuetum : i. a verb of the present tense noteth a continued or still accustomed act . so that whilest mr. prynne goes about to prove , that i miserably wrest his author , how favourably soever he may deal with his author in comparison of my dealing with him , certain i am that he miserably wrests his words , with which i deal as favourably , as their genuine and native signification , according to all rules both of grammaticall and rhetoricall construction will bear . as for that reason which mr. prynne alledgeth , to countenance the sense which he puts upon the words now contested about , to the disparagement of mine , viz. that be maintains point-blank against me throughout his treatise a legislative and coercive power in parliaments ; and that the inference which i draw from the said words is quite contrarie to the next ensuing words and pages ; i answer , 1. ( to the former part of the reason ) that it is most untrue : he doth not maintain point-blank against me throughout his treatise a legislative and coercive power in parliaments and civill magistrates . i every where acknowledge and assert a civill legislative power in both ; therefore mr. edwards maintaining such a power in them , maintains nothing point-blank against me . and whether he maintains a spirituall or ecclesiasticall legislative power in them , especially throughout his treatise , let this passage be witnesse between me and my adversarie : there is nothing more common in the writings of the learned and orthodox , then to shew that the civill power and government of the magistrate , and the ecclesiasticall government of the church , are to genere disjoyned : and thereupon the power of the magistrate by which he deals with the corrupt manners and disorders of his people , it in the nature and specificall reason distinct from ecclesiasticall discipline a . i know not what artificiall construction and meaning mr. prynne may possibly find out for these words ; but surely he that hath not affirm'd the contrarie , as mr. prynne very inconsiderately ( that i say not presumptuously ) hath done , will not affirm , that mr. edw. in this passage maintains an ecclesiasticall legislative power in parliaments or civill magistrates , but the contrary ; yea and affirms this to be the common judgement of men learned and orthodox . so again when he affirms , p. 282. that it is their duty ( speaking of the parliament ) by their power and authority to bind men to the decrees of the assembly , he doth not ( doubtlesse ) maintain an ecclesiasticall legislative power in the parliament : for they that have such a power , cannot be bound in dutie to own the laws or decrees of others , much lesse to bind others to subjection to them . i omit many other passages in this book of like importance . the truth is , that mr. prynnes opinion concerning an ecclesiasticall spirituall jurisdiction in the civill magistrate , which yet is his grand notion in all that he hath written upon the subject of presbyterie , overthrows the main grounds and principall foundations upon which the doctrine of presbyterie is built by all her ablest and most skilfull workmen . insomuch that i wonder not a little , that the masters of that way and judgement , have not appeared at another manner of rate then yet they have done , for the vindication of their principles against him that hath made so sore a breach upon them , and laid their honour in the dust . somewhat i know some of them have done in this kind : but the prophet elisha reproved the king of israel , for smiting thrice onely upon the ground , and then ceasing , telling him that he should have smitten five or six times . 2. to the latter part of the reason , i answer and confesse , that the inference i draw from the words mentioned , may very possibly be quite contrarie to the next ensuing words and pages , and yet the sense of them no wayes wrested , nor mistaken by me ; because it is familiar in the discourse , for the author to contradict himself , as well as other men ; according to one of the ingredients in that most true and happie character of the discourse , given by a woman , who describes it to be wrangling-insinuating-contradictory-revengefull storie b . and the truth is , that in the eye of an unpartiall and disengaged reader , there is scarce any passage or period throughout the whole discourse but may be commodiously enough reduced under one of these 4. heads . and therefore whereas mr. prynne gives this elogium of it , that it is in truth unanswerable c ; i confesse that unanswerable it is in severall respects and sundrie wayes . first , it is unanswerable to that esteeme which my self with many others had of the author formerly . secondly , unanswerable it is to that opinion , which he would have the world conceive of his parts and learning , and in speciall manner of his abilities to deal in the particular controversie . thirdly , it is unanswerable to his profession as he is a christian . fourthly , much more unanswerable is it to his calling , as he is a minister of jesus christ and of the gospel : and fifthly ( and lastly ) most unanswerable it is to those frequent , solemn and large professions which he makes both in his epistle and elsewhere , of his love to the apologists , and candor and fairnesse in writing . but for any such unanswerablenesse as mr. prynne intends , the one part of it will not indure that such a thing should be spoken of the other ; there being enough in the discourse it self to answer whatsoever is to be found in it , of any materiall consideration against the congregationall way ; as will in time convenient be made manifest in the sight of the sun , god not preventing , by more then an ordinarie ( or at least expected ) hand . and whereas mr. prynne glorieth ( and that twice over at least , for failing ) that it hath not been hitherto answered by the independents d ; i answer three things : first , that neither hath mris katharine chidleys answer to mr. edwards his reasons against independencie and toleration , been yet replyed unto or answered , either by mr. edwards himself , or any other of his partie ; notwithstanding the said answer be but a small piece in comparison of the antapologie : and besides hath been some yeers longer abroad , then this . besides this , there are many other tractates and discourses extant ( and so have been a long time ) in defence of the congregationall way , which as yet have not been so much as attempted by any classique author whatsoever . a particular of some of these you may see , p. 65. of my innocencie and truth triumphing together , in the margent . as for that which a. s. or ( in words at large ) adam steuart hath lift up his pen to do against m. s. if men will needs vote it for an answer , an answer ( so called ) let it be : * but ( doubtlesse ) he that wants either will or skill to distinguish between the persons and the distempers of men , is in an ill capacitie ( or incapacitie rather ) of framing any sober answer to a sober discourse . secondly , mr. edwards himself , the smallnesse of the content of the apologeticall narration considered , took not a whit lesse time to give answer to it , then hath yet been taken by the independents to answer the antapologie . but thirdly ( and lastly ) if mr. prynne knew and considered , who it was that hath hindered the independents , and that once and again from answering it as yet , viz. he that sometimes hindred pauls coming to the thessalonians e , though ( in mr. edwards apprehension ) he both hastened and furthered the coming back of the apologists into england f ; he had little or no cause to glorie in that priviledge . but quod defertur , non anfectur : quicquid sub terrâ est in apricum proferet aetas . having ( as you have heard ) befriended mr. edwards ( his fellow-labourer in the presbyterian cause ) with the best accommodation he could to make one piece of him hang to another ( but alas , who is able to comprimize between fire and water ? ) he proceeds and tels me behind my back , ( and yet with an intent i presume that all the world should take notice of it ) that my passages out of mr. hayward , bishop jewel , mr. fox , mr. calvin , jacobus acontius , &c. make nothing at all against the legislative authority of parliaments in matters of religion and church government , and have no affinity with my passages , words , most of them propugning the very ecclesiasticall power of parliaments , which i oppugne : and yet in the very next words adds ; that indeed some of their words seem to diminish the coercive power of magistrates , and enforcing of mens consciences in matters of religion ; as if i ever oppugned or denied any other authority or power in magistrates , then this . if he will please but to peruse my innocencies triumph , pag. 8. and my innocency and truth triumphing together , pag. 72. 73. 78. with severall other passages in these and other my writings , he will ( or at least very easily , may ) see that i oppugne , deny no other authority , power in parliaments , civill magistrates , but onely that which is enforcing of mens consciences in matters of religion . whereas he promiseth or undertakes that he shall in due place answer these words of theirs , which ( as he saith ) seem to diminish the coercive power of magistrates in matters of religion , and manifest how i abuse the authors herein as well as mr. edwards ; my answer onely is , that he may indeed soon answer them after that rate of answering , at which he hath answered any thing of mine hitherto , and he may shew how ( i. say that ) i abuse them ; and without writing or speaking , as well as by either , manifest that i abuse their authors herein , as well as i do mr. edwards . but for this last particular , i am willing to save him the labour and pains of writing for the manifestation of it . for i here freely confesse , that i have abused these authors in what he speaks of , just as i have abused mr. edwards : and both of them just as much as amounts to no abuse at all . i wonder by what art or way the gentleman means to go to work , to prove that i have miserably wrested , or abused the authors he here speaks of , or their words , when as i have put no construction at all or interpretation upon their words , nor drawn any inference or deduction from them , but onely transcribed them with as much diligence and faithfulnesse as i could , and presented them cleerly as they stand in their respective authors . if his meaning be , that i have miserably wrested and abused them by my quotation of them , as subservient to my cause or purpose , ( a deed of folly which himself commits with the holy scriptures themselves many a time and often ) my answer is , that were this assertion true , that they are not subservient to my cause or purpose , yet my recourse unto them , for aid to my purpose , were no miserable wresting or abusing of them . our saviour being an hungry , did not abuse the fig-tree by repairing to it , though there prov'd nothing upon it for his purpose . nor should mr. prynne abuse a tavern by going into it to drink a cup of wine that pleaseth him , though he shold be disappointed in his expectation when he comes there . nay in this case would he not rather think ( and that much more reasonably of the two ) that the taverne had abused him , then he it . in like manner , if those authors and sayings which i have produced , and which mr. prynne speaks of , have no affinity with my passages and purpose , i may much more truly and reasonably say that they have abused me , then mr. prynne can either say or ever prove , that i have abused them . for the truth is , if they do fall me , or refuse to stand by me in the defence of those passages spoken of when mr. prynne hath done his worst to them , they are the greatest dissemblers that ever wore the livery of paper and inke . never were there sentences or sayings that more fully and freely complied with any mans notions whatsoever in terms and words , then farre the greatest part of these do with my passages and purpose . if mr. prynne can dissolve or abrogate the authoritie of grammar rules , and destroy the naturall and proper signification of words , then may i have some cause to fear , that he may possibly evict me to be a miserable wrester and abuser of authors and their sayings . but if words be able to defend themselves , and make good the possession of their known significations and rules of construction , their both ancient and moderne interest in the understandings of men , against the authority or violence of mr. prynnes pen ; i defie all his interminations and threatnings of manifesting me either a miserable wrester or abuser of my authors . the last parcell of his high contest against me in this discourse , is , that i pervert the meaning of the divines of scotland , in one , or more , or i know not , he knows not , how many or how few , of those passages which i cite from them ; whereas i meddle not little or much with any sense or meaning of any of them ; but onely barely tender them unto the reader , leaving it free unto him to judge of the sense and meaning of them , and whether they consort with my apprehensions , or no . and though he be doubtfull of that interpretation or meaning which himself ( however ) adventures to put upon them ( as there is reason more then enough , why he should ) delivering himself with this sub-modest caution , if i mistake not ; yet am i rated and chidden at no lower rate , then this : you may therefore blush at this ( i wonder , which ) your perverting of their meaning , as if they held , that the parliaments of england or scotland had no power to make ecclestasticall laws for religion and church government . therefore may i blush : wherefore ? what ? because mr. prynne hath put such a sense and interpretation upon the passages in hand , of which he knows not ( it seems ) what to make , but suspects a mistake in it ? blush in this respect i confesse i may : but what cause have i to blush , at my perverting of their meaning , when as 1. i do not interpose to put any meaning ( i mean any particular or speciall meaning ) upon any of them . 2. why should i blush upon mr. prynnes injunction , at any meaning which i put upon them , when as that very meaning which himself puts upon them , by way of confutation and disparagement of that which he pretends to be mine , is by himself little lesse then suspected for a mistake ? the tax of blushing which mr. prynne imposeth upon me , should in reason be rather levied upon the estate of his own modestie , who by his own confession runs the hazard of perverting the meaning of those passages under debate , whereas i never came so neere the crime of such a perversion , as to ingage my self in any interpretation of them at all . but if you will please to heare his interpretation , and compare it diligently with his text ( the passages cited by me from the divines of scotland ) you may very fairly translate mr. prynnes , if i mistake not , into , certainly , mr. prynne mistakes . i answer , ( saith he ) 1. that their onely meaning ( if i mistake not ) in these passages , is , that the prince or chiefe civill magistrate of himselfe , without a parliament , or without the assistance and consent of his nobles , commons , clergie , cannot legally make any ecclesiasticall lawes to oblige his people . mark this saying well ; and see how like it looks to the genuine interpretation , sense or import of these ( and the like ) ensuing sentences . all men , as well magistrates , as inferiors , ought to be subject to the judgement of the nationall assembly in ecclesiasticall causes without any reclamation or appellation to any judge , civill or ecclesiasticall , within the realme . againe ; it belongeth to the synod ( the clergie having the chiefe place therein to give direction and advice ) not to receive and approve the definition of the prince in things which concerne the worship of god , but it self to define and determine what orders and customes are fittest to be observed , &c. we see here in the text , that the chiefe place , yea the sole power ( for what other sense can be put upon those words , it belongeth to the synod it self to define and determine ) of defining and determining orders and customes in things which concerne the worship of god , is ascribed unto the synod , ( wherein also the direction of the clergie ought to be predominant ) not onely without the definition of the prince , or chiefe civill magistrate , but with rejection of his definition : not to receive or approve the definition of the prince ( saith this text . ) whereas in mr. prynnes interpretation , the prince or chiefe civill magistrate ( as we heard ) hath the preheminence and precedencie in all such definitions and determinations assigned unto him ; and next to him , the nobles , and next to them the commons , ( of neither of which ne {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} quidem in the text ) are interessed in the same ; and the clergie , or synod , which are made the head , and have the chiefe place , if not the sole power , about such definitions and determinations in the text , are in the interpretation made the taile , and compelled to come behind all the rest , as a partie borne out of due time , or at least in the lowest influence of power , for any such interest . if mr. prynne be not ( at the softest ) mistaken in this interpretation , the sense and meaning of those words , abraham begat isaac a , may very possibly be this , that judas went and hung himself b . judge , reader , between me and my adversary , who hath more cause to blush , and who is the more miserable wrester of words , and perverter of meanings . and whether there be not an ayre or gentle breathing of a contradiction in this period which he subjoynes , within it self , and in one part of it to the premised interpretation , i desire the reader attentively to consider . but that the king ( saith he ) or supreame temporall magistrates , assisted by a parliament and orthodox divines , may not make binding ecclesiasticall lawes , or , that their or our parliaments have not a reall legislative power in any matter ecclestiastique ( the onely point controversed ) is directly contrary both to the constant doctrine and practise of our brethren and their church , &c. i beleeve that neither our brethren , nor their church , will conne mr. prynne thanks for this his vindication and plea for them : but however , i shall not speak in his cast , nor forestall his market . onely i desire to know of him , if their , and our parliaments have a reall legislative power in matters ecclesiastique ( as he affirms in the latter part of the sentence ) why he requires an assistance of orthodox divines in the former part of it , to make binding ecclesiasticall lawes . they that have a reall legislative power in , or within themselves ; need no forinsecall assistance of others , to make their laws binding , though they may need forinsecal advice for the better constitution of them , as in laws about any particular trade ; yea he had given this judgement in the case a little before ( as we heard ) that the prince or chiefe civill magistrate cannot legally make any ecclesiasticall lawes to oblige his people , not onely not without a parliament , but not without his clergie also . doth he not here interesse the clergie every whit as farre , and as deep in the very essence or substance of the legislative power to make binding ecclesiasticall lawes for the people , as he doth the parliament it self ? and whereas in the passage last recited , he affirms the onely point in controversie to be , whether our parliaments have not a reall legislative power in any matters ecclesiastique ; i wonder why he storms me and my writings with so much indignation , pag. 106 , 107. &c. for printing passages onely charged by him as being against the ecclesiasticall jurisdiction of parliaments a ; which likewise is his usuall expression elsewhere . doth he apprehend no difference at all , between an ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , power , authoritie ; and a legislative power in or about ecclestiasticall matters , or things ? mr. edwards , if he will vouchsafe to learne of him , will teach him a wide difference ; who in many places gives and grants unto the magistrate a power and authoritie about ecclesiasticall causes , and businesses b of many kinds , ( though not of any c , as mr. prynne bountie extendeth ) but no where ( to my remembrance ) grants any ecclesiasticall jurisdiction or power to him : yea p. 163. of his antapologie , he interrogates his apologists , whether there doth not reside in the church all ecclesiasticall power absolutely necessary to the building up of the kingdome of christ , and salvation of men , even when the magistrate is not of the church ? the import of which interrogation agrees well with that assertion of the same author ; and tract p. 169. that the civill power and government of the magistrate , and the ecclesiasticall government of the church , are toto genere disjoyned ; and thereupon the power of the civill magistrate , by which he deales with the corrupt manners and disorders of his people , is in the nature and specificall reason distinct from ecclesiasticall discipline . if there be an ecclesiasticall jurisdiction or legislative power in civill magistrates , parliaments , to make ecclesiasticall binding laws ; why may not the exercise of this power in the administration or execution of these lawes , be called ecclesiasticall discipline or government ? yea , why not rather ecclesiasticall , then civill ? so that mr. prynne confounding an ecclesiasticall power , with a power about ecclesiasticall things , plainly shews that he is not perfectly initiated in the mysterie of presbyterie : and did not his writings more accommodate that cause and partie by the weight of their authoritie , and height of language , and confidence , together with unparalleld bitternesse against his opposites , then by their worth in strength of reason , i beleeve they would hardly think them worthy to be numbred amongst their benefactors . but notwithstanding all that mr. prynne hath done or said to , or against me , or my innocencies triumph , in particular ; in the 106 , 107 , 108 , 109 , 110 , 111 , 112 pages of this his discourse , yet his spes gregis , the strength of his hope that he hath done sufficient execution upon me , rests onely upon his former sections ; however the question of many concerning them , is , cui bono ? he tells me , that my own conscience and judgement cannot but informe me , that he hath written enough in the former sections to convince me and all the world besides , that i have not onely violated , but denyed , oppugned those priviledges of parliament in ecclesiasticall affaires , which our own parliaments in all ages , and parliamentary assemblies in all other kingdomes have unquestionably exercised , &c. i answer , 1. i confesse that in the former sections he hath written enough , quantitativè , to convince any reasonable man ( if not all the world ) of any errour or mistake whatsoever : but much too little qualitativè , to convince either me , or any reasonable man , that i have violated , or oppugned any priviledge of parliament ; i have farre more reason to conceive and hope , that in this and my last-published discourse , i have written enough both wayes to convince both him and all the world , that i have not violated or oppugned any priviledge of parliament , truly , or with the consent of heaven , so called . if he intends to conclude , that therefore i have violated , oppugned the privileges of parliament , because i have argued against some positions or opinions , which mr. prynne , with some others , are pleased to call priviledges of parliament ; the logician , who is a man of reason , will answer for me , that à terminis diminuentibus non sequitur argumentatio . it doth not follow , that a piece of metall or coyne is therefore gold , because it is counterfeit gold ; nor that mr. prynnes great grandfather is a man , because he is a dead man . if he can , or shall fairly demonstrate unto me ( though in a far lesse content of words , then his three former sections amount unto ) that any act , practise , or exercise , either by continuance or succession of time , or by frequencie of repetition , or customarinesse of reiteration , by connivencie or want of opposition from men , must needs change the nature and kind of it , and of sinfull become lawfull , he shall by such a demonstration as this , put life into his former sections , and render them potent for that conviction which he expects from them ; but till this be done , that great bulk and body of things done in the dark , and time out of minde , will partake of that infirmitie which the author himself acknowledgeth as cleaving to the discourse , i meane , impotencie a ; and can with no tolerable pretence of reason or equitie , demand that interest in the judgements , consciences , understandings of men , which he challengeth ( it seems ) on their behalfe . it is as poore and low a designe , onely by alledging the examples , opinions , or judgements of men , to attempt the conviction of him that builds his opinion upon the scriptures & word of god , yea though he builds besides his foundation ; as it would be in a man to carry a sack of chaffe to the market , hoping to bring home a like quantitie of wheat for it , without giving any other price . yea to alledge and cite the scriptures themselves , though in never such an abundance , without close arguing and binding them to our cause ; is a means of very small hope , whereby to prevaile or doe good upon such a man who holds his opinion , not barely or simply upon a supposall of scripture-authoritie for it , but upon scripture thoroughly debated , and by principles of sound reason and naturall deductions , brought home unto his judgement and cause . againe , 2. in all that great body of premisses contained in all the former sections he speaks of , there is not one word , syllable , letter , or tittle to prove that maine ingredient in his conclusion , unquestionably exercised . logicians justly reject and exauthorize all such conclusions , which swell above the line of their premisses . by all the tables and donaries presented unto neptune by those that in shipwracks escaped with their lives , it could not be knowne , who , or how many they were , that were drowned . 3. nor is there any whit more in any , in all the said sections or premisses , that reacheth home , or indeed comes neere , to that specialtie in the conclusion , in all ages . evanders mother lived many ages agone ; yet the mother of abel had the precedencie of her by many generations . therefore surely all the world will never accept of the conclusion so insufficiently and lamely prov'd . 4. and lastly , whereas mr. prynne tells me , that if i now make not good my promise , few or none will ever credit me hereafter ; i should be very glad to meet with my condition , that so i might performe my obligation . but in the meane time , whether any or none will credit me hereafter ; i know not well how i , or any other should credit him for the present , as touching the authentiqueness and truth of those citations and transcriptions , upon which the principall weight of that conclusion depends , whereof he expects conviction both from me , and all the world to boote . is it lightly possible for any man to refraine jealousie in this kind , that doth but consider how oft his pen hath dash'd against the rock of truth , in representing me , my opinions and sayings , ( yea , i can say further , affections , intentions ) upon the open theatre of the world , where any man that will , may see his nakednesse in this kinde ? is boldnesse in the sun , like to prove modestiē in the shade ? as for satisfaction by examination of all particulars , it is not every mans , indeed very few mens , opportunitie . the respective authors and records , wherein particularities must be inquired after , and found , for satisfaction in that kind , are in few mens hands ; and not of all mens understandings . so that mr. prynne by dealing so unfaithfully and unchristianly by me and my sayings , as he hath done , hath not onely obstructed the course and passages of his own reputation and credit ; but hath further also injur'd the world round about him , by rendring those good parts and abilities wherewith god hath intrusted him for publick accommodation , if not wholly unserviceable , yet of very meane usefulnesse and concernment , in comparison of what their line and tenour would well have borne . it is a saying in the civill law , that he that hath injur'd one , hath threatened many . i end , with a word of christian admonition and advice , both to the gentleman my antagonist , and my selfe . sir , the great and glorious god that made us , in mercy remembers both our frames , and considers that we are dust a . this gracious remembrance of his we injoy both by night and by day , in whatsoever we injoy in the comforts of this world , yea or in the opportunities wee have of laying hold on that which is to come . our dust which abaseth us , in this respect , yet relieveth us , and becomes a mediator for us with the bountifulnesse of god : were wee creatures of a more excellent line , those sins and infirmities would ( in all likelihood ) were they found upon us , be our ruine , which now doe not so much as shake the least haire of our heads . if wee would but remember and consider one the other , as god doth us both , that common principle of frailtie , out of which wee act to a reciprocall discontentment and offence , would be of soveraigne use to mollifie and supple , if not perfectly to heale , both our wounds . not to think any thing that befalleth us strange , is almost ( being interpreted ) not to think it evill . we shall not quit our selves like men , if we make any great matter of it , to be evill intreated by men . mutuall discontentments now and then are a known tribute which men must look to pay for the commoditie of living & conversing together in the world . if we have offended one the other , happie shall we be in forgiving one the other , and circumvent him whose designe was to have circumvented us , and made hatred ( a kind of upper hell ) of our contestation . if i have offended you otherwise then by speaking the truth , and so as the defence of it , all circumstances duly poysed , required , you shall not need long to complaine of want of christian satisfaction , as far as i am able either to doe or to speak any thing that may accommodate you , if you please , but to signifie your aggrievance , and make your demands in a christian and loving way . and if your heart will but answer mine in these inclinations , the storms and tempests of our contestations , shall yet end in a sweet calme ; and men shall look upon us , as if wee had never been they : if you reject the motion of a christian compliance by the way , i can very patiently , and with comfort enough , awaite the decisions of that great tribunall , whose awards will shortly seale all the righteousnesses and unrighteousnesses of men , against all further disputes or inquiries to the dayes of eternitie . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a85386e-290 a 1 king. 21. 25. a mat. 27. 18. b joh. 8. 46. c vers . 48. notes for div a85386e-930 a innocency and truth triumphing together . b my nocturnall lucubrations , borrowed from the houres allotted to my necessary naturall rest , &c. epist. dedic. c epist. ded. propè finem . d epist. to the reader . propè finem . e epist. to the reader . versus finem . f pag. 110. versus finem . a epist. delic . non longè à fine . b ibid. & p. 1. c epist. to the reader . sect. 2. d pag. 106. a cyprian ad caecil . lib. 2. ep. 3. sect. 3. b epist. ded. p 3. paulò ab initio . sect. 4. a ibidem . sect. 5. b ibidem . sect. 6. c pag. 156. a pag. 134. sect. 7. b pag. 106. c pag. 106. d innocency and truth triumphing together . sect. 8. a pag. 107. paulo ante medium . b innocencies triumph . p. 18. 19. c ibidem . d ibidem . sect. 9. a pag. 108. circà medium . sect. 10. b 1 king. 18. 17. c 1 king. 18. 18. sect. 11. d pag. 110. circà medium . a pag. 109. paulò post ini●●●● . sect. 12. sect. 13. a though for the most part really cordiall in their affections , actions to the parliament and church of england ( speaking of independents ) epist. dedic. circa initium . b pag. 107. circa finem . c epist. dedic. paulo post initium d full reply . p. 7. circà initium . sect. 14. a nec verbum verbo curabis reddere fidus interpres . hor. de art. sect. 15. b 2 cor. 11. 3. c ver. 2. d isa. 8. sect. 16. a mat. 16. 23. b 2 thes. 3. 2. sect. 17. sect. 19. mr. pryn , p. 108 sect. 20. a psal. 90 2. b prov. 8. 25. sect. 21. a rom. 12. b pag. 109. paulò ante medium . sect. 22. a epist. dedic. non longè ab mitio . b ibidem . c epist. to the reader , all most throughout , and elsewhere in severall other of his writings , as his ful reply , &c. a full reply pag. 7. b ibidem . c full reply p. 6. propè finem . a heb. 5. 12. b what ever censure you deserve , i fear your book demerits the fire to purge out this dross . p. 109. a psal. 64. 8. b psal. 52. 4. c act . d exod. 5. 12. e gen. 11. 4. f mat. 22. 19 , 20. g pag. 108. a pag. 107. b see my anti-cavalierisme . c see my bonc for a bishop . a epist. dedic. in sine . b mar. 12. 43. c 2 cor. 12. 11. a reglum est malè audire , cum bene feceris . a mat. 14. 4. b dan. 3. 18. c dan. 6. 8. 10. a full reply pag. 7. circa initium . b pag. 108. a full reply in the very last clause . b {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . arist. ethic. ad nichom . l. 3. c. 1. a rom. 7. 7. b 1 ioh. 3. 4. a ierem. 15. 19 b numb. 16. 3. c pag. 106. l. 9. 10. d pag. 110. in fine . a jer. 15. 9. b rom. 8. 6. a 1 tim. 1. 13. a rom. 4. 15 b act. 20. 27. c innocencie and truth triumphing together . d 2 thes. 1. 7 , 8. e 2 tim. 4. 1 , 2. f ezek. 3. 10 , 11. 18 , 19 , 20. jer. 1. 17. esa. 58. 1. mat. 10. 27 , 28 act. 4. 19 , 20. & 20. 24 , 25 , 26 , 27. rom. 12. 6. 1 pet. 4. 10 , 11. 1 cor. 9. 16. tit. 1. 9. & 3. 15 , &c. a pag. 107. circa medium . b act. 4. 18. 20. b ioh. 1. 9. a mr. edwards antap. p. 169. b katharine chidley new-yeers gift . epist. to the reader . c epist. dedic. non longe à finè d epist. dedic. non longe à fine . and again , p. 111. non longè à fine . * whereas m. s. hath these words : better a thousand times is it that such distempers as these , though found in millions of men , should suffer , then that the least haire of the head of one of those men should fall to the ground : this passage a. steuart ( 〈…〉 ) interprets this : better that millions of us , who desire the suppression of all sects , should suffer , then but any of them should lose but one , yea the least hair of their heads . the second part of the duply , &c. by adam steuart , p. 180. what m. s. cals , distempers , a. s. interprets , presbyterians ; and is not able to conceive how the one should suffer without the other . and this line of interpretation he stretcheth over this whole discourse : 〈…〉 . e 1 thes. 2. 18 f actapol . p. 191. a mat. 1. 2. b mat. 27. 5. a pag. 106. ante medium . b antapol pag. 159 , 160 , 163 , &c. c pag 166. 169. 170 , &c. a these my impotent endeavours . epist. to the reader , versus finem . a psal. 103. 14. innocency and truth triumphing together; or, the latter part of an answer to the back-part of a discourse, lately published by william prynne esquire, called, a full reply, &c. beginning at the foot of p. 17. of the said discourse, with this title or superscription, certain brief animadversions on mr. john goodwins theomachia. wherein the argumentative part of the said animadversions is examined; together with some few animadversions upon some former passages in the said reply. licensed and printed according to order. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. 1645 approx. 298 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 55 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a85400) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 124227) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 5:e24[8]) innocency and truth triumphing together; or, the latter part of an answer to the back-part of a discourse, lately published by william prynne esquire, called, a full reply, &c. beginning at the foot of p. 17. of the said discourse, with this title or superscription, certain brief animadversions on mr. john goodwins theomachia. wherein the argumentative part of the said animadversions is examined; together with some few animadversions upon some former passages in the said reply. licensed and printed according to order. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. [8], 99, [1] p. printed by matthew simmons, for henry overton, at his shop in popes-head-alley, london : 1645. "to the christian reader" signed: j.g., i.e. john goodwin. annotation on thomason copy: the 5 in the imprint date is crossed out; "1644"; "by john goodwin"; "8th january". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng prynne, william, 1600-1669. -full reply to certaine briefe observations and anti-queries on master prynnes twelve questions about church-government. puritans -controversial literature -early works to 1800. 2007-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2008-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion innocency and truth triumphing together ; or , the latter part of an answer to the back-part of a discourse , lately published by william prynne esquire , called , a full reply , &c. beginning at the foot of p. 17. of the said discourse , with this title or superscription , certain brief animadversions on mr. john goodwins theomachia . wherein the argumentative part of the said animadversions is examined ; together with some few animadversions upon some former passages in the said reply . qui innocentiae debitum servat , poenitentiae non solvit usuram , chrysost . nolo mihi imperet ille vel ille , qui me opprimere potest , docere non potest , hieronymus . non est delicata in deum , & secura confessio : qui in me credit , debet sanguinem suum sundere ibidem . ignosci potuit simpliciter errantibus : post inspirationem verò & revelationem factam , sine ignorantiae veniâ peccatur , cypr. ep. pios hoc nomen & titulum in mundo oportet gerere , quòd seditiosi ac schismatici , ac infinitorum malorum authores sunt , lutherus gal. c. 5. not that wee have dominion over your faith : but are helpers of your joy , 2 cor. 1. 24. let us therefore , as many as be perfect , be thus minded : and if any of yee be otherwise minded , god shall reveale even the same unto you , phil. 3. 15. licensed and printed according to order . london ; printed by matthew simmons , for henry overton , at his shop in popes-head-alley , 1645. to the unpartiall and unprejudic'd reader . am i therefore become your enemy , because i tell you the truth a , ( saith the first-born b , and yet the last born also c , of the apostles to his galathians ; ) the interrogation is a constructive assertion of two things . first , that to speak the truth in some cases , is very opportune to sinister interpretation , and apt to represent the speaker as a man of no benevolous or friendly comportance with those , to whom he so speaketh . the reason whereof seems to be this : errors and misprisions are many times very indulgent and bountifull to the flesh ; and he that incounters men under such injoyments , with the truth , seems to them rather to strike at these injoyments , then at the error or opinion , by whose consent they have first taken , and still keep possession of them . themselves esteeming the opinion of small value ( as well it deserves ) save onely in reference to those carnall gratifications ; are very apt to conceive that neither doe others so much minde that , or take offence at that , as at those priviledges or accommodations which they injoy by it : and this they judge to be a straine of an hostile inclination . secondly , the prementioned interrogation supposeth , that no manifestation or speaking of what truth soever unto men , simply as such , is any argument at all of want of affection , and that in the highest , unto them . the reason is , because there is no truth , which being imbraced , and honoured with sutable practise , but will give farre better wages and consideration to her servants in due time , then any error whatsoever . yea , the truth is , that the greater breach , or spoyle , a truth makes in any mans worldly possessions or enjoyments , it is of so much the richer and the more advantagious concernment unto him , and will honour him the more abundantly . it is the manner and guise of divine truth , to pull downe houses built with firres and brick , and to build them up againe with cedars and hewne stones . he that deals much either in the discoverie , ( or recovery rather ) or inforcement of such truths , which are opposed in the world , not onely by errors and contrary misprisons , but by secular accommodations also , as of honour , power , riches , pleasures , or the like , takes a very direct course to make himself conformable to the image of his saviour , who being so great a benefactor to the world , was yet numbred amongst transgressors . to attempt the casting downe of such imagination , which do not onely exalt themselves in the minds of men , but contribute also to the exaltation of men themselves in the world , be they never so extravagant or eccentricall to the truth , is an undertaking of almost as doubtfull a presage , as they that speak proverbs are wont to represent by the taking a lion by the beard , or an elephant by the tooth . and did not the god of truth umpire ( and that with an high hand ) amongst the thoughts and counsells of the sons of men , and put many a by ingredient into his providence of soveraign reliefe to those , whose hearts are set , and hands lift up to magnifie such truths , which being advanced are like to doe justice in the world , and to reduce all usurpations and unrighteous detainments amongst men , the earth would not be able to beare the words of such men ; and the world soone become too hot a climate for truths of such a complexion . it is a matter of somewhat a sad contemplation , ( and yet in part , delightfull also , viz. as those oracles of heaven , the scriptures , are mightily asserted and vindicated like themselves thereby ) to see , what commotions , tumults , and combustions are presently raised in the minds and spirits of men upon the birth ( or resurrection rather ) of any truth into the world , concerning which there is the least jealousie , that in case it should reigne , it would rack them from off the lees of their old customes , or compell them to a restitution of what they have unjustly taken , and peaceably injoyed for a long time , or any wayes expose them to any outward sufferings , or disaccommodations in the world ; to see , what hurryings up and downe , what ingaging of parties , what inquiring after parts and abilities , what rembling over authors old and new , what incensing of authoritie , what streynings of wits and consciences , what slighting of solid arguments , what evading substantiall and cleare interpretations of scripture , what magnifying of those that are streined and farre fetch'd in their stead , what casting abroad of calumnies and reproaches , what incrustations , and misrepresentations of opinions , sayings , practises , actions , what shiftings , what blendings , what colourings , what pretendings , what disgracings , yea , what conventings , what persecutions , what evill intreatings of men , what appealings to fire , sword , prisons , banishment , confiscations , and all to turn a beam of light and glorie , into darknes & shame , to keep a new-born truth from ruling over them . as soone as herod the king heard that christ was borne , and that wise men were come from the east to worship him , inquiring after him , as a king ; the text saith , that he was troubled , and all jerusalem with him : and how unnaturall and bloudy a design was there presently put in execution , to prevent the reigning of him that was but now borne into the world ? that one , who yet was their lawfull king , might not reigne over them , many poore infants ( innocents altogether in this ) were not suffered to live amongst them . this scene also was acted in germany , when god first made luther as life from the dead a vnto the doctrine of free justification and remission of sins ; a doctrine not so much opposed by the popish tenet concerning the vertue and validitie of papall indulgences , as by the b sacred thirst of that gold and silver which the trade of such merchandize formerly driven by the grand seignior of rome and his factors throughout the christian world , brought into their coffers in that bewitching and transporting abundance . reader , of any wrong done to my self , i will not complaine : but i know a man , who hath been forsaken of his friends , found those of his own house to be his enemies , who hath been reviled , traduced , reproached , way-laid , by tongues , by pens , by practises , reported to have lost his wits , abilities , parts , suffered losse of his due and necessary subsistence , wrongfully deteined from him , and for which he hath laboured faithfully , brought before rulers and magistrates , represented to soveraigne authoritie , as a wilfull and presumptuous underminer of their undoubted priviledges , and that diametrally contrary to his vow and covenant ; besides twenty more hard sayings and practises of men against him ; and all this for no other cause , upon none other ground or exception , but onely because he holds forth such a truth ( as in all his heart and all his soule he is verily perswaded ) which , if entertained , is like to blesse the world , though it be as by fire , i meane by casting downe the present thoughts , and crossing the present desires and designs of many in it : of the injuries & indignities offered to such a man , i have cause ( with many others ) to complaine ; but for any sufferings or evill intreaties of mine own from men , i count it beneath my ingagements to him , who strengtheneth me to doe and to suffer all things a , to stoop to take up any lamentation or complaint . in these leaves following , i make payment of a debt unto thee , contracted by a promise and ingagement made in my late briefe defence , which i styled , innocencies triumph ; with some small additionall consideration , for thy present forbearance . for in the former sections till about pag. 54. i animadvert upon some select passages in the former part and body of that piece , in whose tayle lies the sting of my accusation ; the pulling out whereof , is my taske from the third section unto the end . in the carriage of the discourse , i projected these foure ; brevitie , persecuitie , moderation , satisfaction . how i have performed or prospered in my designe , is a case now presented unto the great judicatorie of the world to judge and determine . i shall not court thy favour or approbation : if thou wilt deale hardly either with the truth or her friends , at thine own perill be it : injure what thou canst , we shall be repaired ; yea , and have all our forbearance and delay , in full consideration and recompence . yet a very little while , and he that doth come , will come , and will not tarry a : and behold , his reward is with him b . in the day of whose coming , however thou shalt deale with me in the interim , i cordially wish thee peace , and that lifting up of the head , after which it shall never hang downe more . from my study in coleman-street , jan. 8. 1644. thine , all that thy soule desireth , in the love of the truth , j. g. errata . pag. 3. line 36. dele , only , and close the parenthesis at the word , government . p. 8. l. 26. dele , ) . p. 17. l. 5. for vere , r. vero . p. 13. l. 7. for apparent , r. apparan . p. 39. l. 3. for distances , r. disturbances ; ibid. l. 36. for disturbances , r. disturbance . p. 47. l. 33. for , ingagements , r. inducements . p. 49. l. 14. for , leave , r. give . p. 51. l. 31. for , in ordinary , r. in an ordinary . p. 53. l. 1. for , faith , r. truth . p. 56. l. 34. for . praise , r. honour . p. 59. l. 11. for , still , r. till . p. 61. l. 35. for , is more , r. is of more . p. 62. l. 15. in the margent , for ipsa , r. ipsam . p. 65. l. 4. for , precedent , r. president . ibid. l. 12. for guiltie , r. guilt . p. 68. l. 9. those words , and lastly , to be closed in a parenthesis . p. 70. l. 18. for , together by , r. together for by . p. 80. l. 10. for , the , r. that . p. 87. l. 25. for , exemptively , r. executively . some other lesser mistakes , as in points , parentheses , or the like , the reader is desired to pardon , and amend . innocency and truth triumphing together : or , the latter part of an answer to the back-part of a discourse , lately published by william prynne esquire , called , a full reply , &c. the gentleman who hath vouchsafed me the honour of so noble an antagonist , as himself , p. 8. of his full reply , hath this ingenuous saying : i presume my friends are so ingenuous , as not to be offended with mee for reproving only their errours with ingenuous freedome , in which i manifest my self their greatest friend , because i neither spare nor flatter them in their mistakes . i cannot doubt , but that hee will put the same interpretation upon the ingenuous freedome of his friend in the same kind , which hee presumes his friends will put upon his ; and will make no other construction of my not-sparing or flattering him in his mistakes , then as a manifestation of my self to be his greatest friend . the truth is , that if he shall put any other construction upon them , but this , it is a signe that he understands not the dialect or language of mine intentions . upon the stock of so faire and rich an incouragement , as this , i conceive it very proper for mee to graffe ( at least ) the presentation of some errors and mistakes ( more then so called ) to master prynnes view , which himself had first scatteringly , presented to the view of the world , in his late piece , called , a full reply , &c. and will ( i trust ) assist my pen with his in the censure and condemnation of them ; i make no question , but that he will acknowledge it an errour and mistake in any man , to confute concealed errours and mistakes with those that are open and professed . hee makes a sad complaint ( in the very beginning of his work ) that his condition still hath been to have his best actions and publique services ( he means performed by his pen ) misconstrued and traduced ; and yet a few lines after , hee affirms that his twelve questions touching church-government , gave ample satisfaction to many truly religious , of all ranks and qualities , who returned him speciall thanks . he that can give men , yea , the best of men , men truly religious , yea , not a few of these men neither , but many , and that of all ranks and qualities satisfaction , yea , ample satisfaction ( and receive thanks accordingly ) only by asking questions , seems to write with fortunatus his pen ; and may well beare the burthen of much misprision from other men , out of the strength of the joy of this rare successe . ordinarily , men of greatest worth and learning , have much ado to give satisfaction , by the most elaborate and exact resolutions ; which is another manner of service to the world , then asking questions is : a weak man may ask moe questions in an houre , then seven wise men can answer in seven yeeres . and when hee saith , that our saviour both instructed and refuted his opposites and auditors , by demanding questions only , i conceive it is a mistake : as for those scriptures which hee cites to prove this , some of them being more then half chapters , most of them very large portions of chapters ; he that shall please to peruse them , shall finde more in them , then demanding questions only . no question demanded by our saviour was further instructive , then as it gave occasion to an answer . it is the marrow of the answer , not the bone of the question that nourisheth with instruction ; and luke 2. 47. ( the first scripture alledged by him in this cause ) it is said , that all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers , not at his questions . notwithstanding , we acknowledge aristotles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be very usefull and serviceable for the advancement of knowledge ; only herein we must crave pardon , if we judge it no signe of any depth or thoroughness in an argument or subject , to be imperious and sore in asking questions about it , and but weak and superficiall in giving answers . again , whereas hee supposeth , p. 4. that independent ministers and congregations lay claim to a soveraign temporall all jurisdiction , for the prescribing and setting up of a church-government ; certainly it is a mistake , ( whatsoever it is more ) they claim to jurisdiction at all , much lesse any temporall jurisdiction , least of all any soveraign jurisdiction , to prescribe unto any ( much less , to command or injoyn under penalties , which is proper to soveraign temporall jurisdiction ) any church-government whatsoever : they only submit to that good and holy and perfect will of god , for the regulation of themselves , in point of order amongst themselves , as far as he hath pleased to inlighten them with the knowledge thereof ; without taking any offence at others , for being contrary-minded to them , and without the least semblance or shew of claiming any authoritative or temporall power to impose or force what they practise themselves upon others . again , whereas because some of the independents ( as he chargeth them , p. 5. whether truly or no , i can neither affirm , nor deny ) refuse to heare the scriptures read in our churches , hee thinks to evict this practice of theirs , by proving ( and that by no lesse then thirteen texts of scripture ) that publique reading of them is an ordinance of god ; i conceive it is a defect or mistake in point of proof . because , if such refusall be made by any , it is not made either upon denying or questioning , whether publike reading of the scriptures , be an ordinance of god ; but either upon questioning , whether the bare reading of them in publique , without giving the sense of them , or framing some exhortation upon them , or the like , be an ordinance of god ( which some of the scriptures cited by himself , particularly , neh. 8. 8. make very questionable ) or else upon this reason and ground of conscience , that a man may very safely refuse an inferiour accommodation for his soul , when he hath a lawfull opportunity to injoy a superiour . again , whereas he affirms , p. 5. the only point in question ( i presume he means about church-government only to be , whether the independent modell alone be that exact , unalterable form of church-government , which christ hath punctually & particularly set down for all christian nations , churches to follow ; and yet both in the same page afterwards , and in severall passages besides in this discourse , denies that there is any such form of government , so punctually and particuarly set down by christ , doubtles it cannot but be a mistake , if it amounts not to an error : for they that hold the independent modell ( as hee calleth it ) to be the only form of church-government , which christ hath so punctually and particularly set down , must needs hold withall , that christ hath set down a form of church-government upon such terms , i mean , which is , and must be , unalterable . now mr. prynne , ( with many others of his judgement , in this controversie ) denying this latter opinion , as well as the former , evident it is , that the former cannot be the only point in question . but the truth is , that besides both the one point & the other , there are many others in question , though possibly not of that difficulty or importance : yea , himself in the following page , propounds another question , differing from this , to which notwithstanding hee appropriates the same honour , and affirms it to be the sole question too . again , p. 6. whereas he determines , moderated or regulated episcopacy , to be the same with presbyterie ; i conceive this determination will hardly be voted orthodox in the assembly it self , nor in the generall assembly of the church of scotland . for my part , though i cannot approve of it as matter of truth , yet for matter of inconvenience otherwise , i have nothing to charge it with . again , whereas ( in the same page ) in case the parliament by the synods advice , should unanimously establish a moderated episcopacy , as most consonant to the scriptures , he professeth for himself , that hee shall readily submit unto it ; and withall demands of the anti-querist , why not hee , and all others ? as if either the consonancy of a practice to the scriptures , or the example of one man submitting unto it as consonant thereunto , were a sufficient ground for all men whatsoever to submit likewise unto it , without any more ado ; this savours strongly of that error , which comports so well with the practice of some , viz. that if men in authority shall conclude and injoyn any thing , as consonant to the word of god , all men are bound readily to submit unto it , without asking any question for conscience sake ; yea , or whether they see either consonancy or dissonancy in it thereunto . again , whereas he owns this saying , p. 6. as the naturall issue lawfully begotten of the body or soule ( th' one ) of his own position , that politicians and statesman are fit to be consulted with to suit a church-government best to the civill state ; certainly it is no assertion to be rejoyced in . for as the apostles made their enemies themselves judges in this point between them , whether it was meet to obey god , or them : so shall i willingly abide the arbitration of any of all those that make but the least conscience of fearing god and his king ( christ , ) whether the government of christs church and kingdome should condescend , and be compelled by politicians and statesmen to doe obeysance to civill states in accommodating them ; or whether the government of these should not rather veyle , and doe homage unto that , and deny themselves in their most indeered principles and maximes of state , to give all accommodation and honour unto it . the truth is , that the government of christs kingdome in a civill state , will never do any great thing for it , except it first receive accommodation from it . the truth knowes no compliance , but onely with those that submit to it . whereas ( pag. 6. ) he placeth the whole representative as well church as state of england in the parliament , though i dare not gain-say it , fearing lest mr. pryn , claiming ( as it should seem ) a priviledge to make the privileges of parliament what he pleaseth , should make it a presumptuous and wilfull undermining of the undoubted priviledges of parliament by the very roots : yet i must ingenuously professe , that it is a notion which i know not how to procure quarter for in my brain , as yet . what i may doe hereafter when the gentleman shall bestow more cost and pains upon it to reconcile the disproportion which for the present it carrieth to my understanding , i will not predetermine . but none of all the authors or books that ever yet i was debtor unto , for any grain or scruple of that knowledge wherewith god hath pleased to recompence my labour in studying , ever licensed mee to call any assembly the representative church of any state or kingdome wherein there is not so much as any one church-officer to be found whereas he affirmes it ( in the same page ) a truth so cleare , that no rationall man , good christian , or subject , can deny it , that the whole representative church and state of england in parliament , have sufficient authoritie by gods law to over-rule and bind all , or any particular members or congregations of it , as well as the major part of an independent congregation , power to over-vote and rule the lesser part , and to order yea , bind any of their particular members ; though for the danger aforesaid , it be not ( perhaps ) so safe for me simply to call the latter assertion touching the comparison between the two powers , either an error or a mistake ; yet that this assertion should be a truth so royally qualified , that no reasonable man , or good christian can deny it , seemes not so reasonable . the reason is , because in an independent congregation , all the members by free and voluntary consent have submitted themselves to the regulation and order of the whole body , or ( which is the same ) of the major part of it : and therefore this body having received a lawfull power in a lawfull way , for the reiglement of her respective members , may lawfully exercise it according to the tenor and true intent of the delegation of it : whereas there are many thousands in the church and state of england , who by mr. prynnes owne acknowledgement ( p. 24. line 3. 4. ) have not given any such consent for their regulation in matters ecclesiasticall , and which concerne religion , unto the parliament ; yea , and there are many thousands more besides those which hee there describes and intends , who will not owne any such resignation . therefore the difference between the one case and the other , is very broad , and no lesse considerable , so that a reasonable man may without any dispraise to his reason , and a good christian , without any prejudice to the goodnesse of his christianity , demurre a while before judgement upon the case . besides , there is no question , or ground of doubting , but that a good christian may lawfully , and with a good conscience , submit himself unto a godly , able , and faithfull pastor , together with his people , whom he hath good ground to judge godly , and faithfull also , as well for their edification in their most holy faith , as for the inspection & regulation of themselves in matters of life and conversation : but whether it be lawfull to submit to any man , or any rank or association of men , ( especially of men , of whose sufficiencie and faith fulnesse in the things of god , and jesus christ , we have either but a very slender or no testimony at all , yea whose persons are altogether unknowne to us ) in matters which concerne the worship and service of god , cannot but be a question , and that of great moment , to all considering and conscientious men , who are not already satisfied in the negative part of it . the apostles doe not onely permit , but give it in charge to christians in church-fellowship , to submit themselves one to another in the feare of god , eph. 5. 21. i. to be yeelding , and tractable , easie to be intreated one by another . and , submit your selves every man unto another , 1 pet. 5. 5. if one man ought to submit to another man in this kind , much more ought one to submit unto many , and most of all to the whole society of saints whereof he is a member . but as touching submission unto any man , or men whatsoever in matters which concerne the worship and service of god , the scripture is so farre from imposing this upon any man , that it imposeth the contrary , and that with great emphasis and weight , call no man your father upon earth , ( is our saviours owne charge , matth. 23. 9. ) for one is your father which is in heaven . and in the preceding verse , be ye not called rabbi : for one is your master ( or doctor ) even christ , and ye all are brethren . and the apostle , 1 cor. 7. 23. yee are bought with a price , be ye not the servants of men . he speakes of a servility or subjection in judgement and conscience , to the decisions or determinations of men in matters of conscience and religion . and whosoever doth submit or subject himselfe in things of this nature unto any man or men whosoever , that is , resigne up his judgement and conscience to be ordered , obliged , and tied , by the meere authority or magistery of men in such things , call's men fathers on earth , makes himselfe a servant unto men : and consequently makes himself a transgressor both of our saviours injunction and charge in this behalf , and of his apostles also . thirdly , he that submits himselfe to a pastor and congregation of saints for such regulation as hath been mentioned , is presumed to know and understand before-hand , of what spirit both the one and the other are ; how matters appertaining to the worship and service of god , are carried , managed , and ordered amongst them ; so that he may with the full concurrence and consent of his judgement and conscience , submit himselfe unto them , as touching communion with them in their practice in this kind : but what any synod , assembly , or court of men will determine or enjoyn in such things , cannot be known before-hand by any man ; and consequently , no man can with a good conscience submit himselfe unto them , as touching any of their determinations or decisions , untill he first understands what they are , and whether according to the light and judicature of his conscience , agreeable to the word of god. fourthly , in case a pastor and congregation shall afterwards so farre alter and vary from that posture either in doctrine or practice , wherein they stood , when a man first joyned and submitted himselfe unto them , that hee cannot with the peace of his conscience walk any longer with them , hee may with leave obtained , or otherwise if by request it cannot be obtained , withdraw himselfe without any inconvenience , from their communion , and incorporate himselfe elswhere , as he judgeth best . this may bee done with farre lesse trouble and inconvenience , then ordinarily a man upon a dislike of his parochial pastor , can remove out of one parish into another . but when such things concerning the worship and service of god , which a man cannot with a good conscience submit unto , shall be enacted and commanded , under mulcts and penalties by those that have power and authority over us , wee cannot refuse subjection hereunto , but at our perill , and with the sustaining of what detriment or dammage , whether in our estates , liberties , or otherwise , as the commanders shall please to impose . therefore the case between a particular congregation , and the representative body of a kingdome , is farre different . fifthly and lastly , the representative church and state of a kingdome , may ( and doth ordinarily ) differ from it selfe in poynt of judgement touching matters of religion ) at severall times , as much as heaven and earth . such bodies in the dayes of queene mary , and before , stood up for lordly episcopacie , which you confesse , page 8. that body which now is , hath by solemne covenant abjured . and besides , enacted many things concerning the worship & service of god , which other bodies of the same representation and power , have since repealed . and the nature and claim of such bodies as these in their severall successions , is , that what powersoever hath been either given unto , or exercised by any of the predecessors , of right appertains to the successor . so that suppose the representative body now in being , shall be freely and willingly submitted unto , as having a lawfull power to establish what they shall please in matters of religion , as most agreeable to the word of god : this submission doth not onely interesse or confirm them in this power , but in the consequence and construction of it , is the like interessing and confirmation in the same power , of all their successors , of what constitution or judgement soever they shall bee for matters of religion . whereas for particular independent congregations ( loquendum ut vulgus ) their present constitution being sound & safe , as touching their members , being all in the judgment of charity ( and discretion too ) persons of conscience , and of competent understanding , they are not like in an ordinary way of providence , to degenerate or decline in their successors : and besides , in case they should , their interest and authority over any of their members , may at any time , and under their greatest confirmations , be declin'd without any considerable dammage , or inconveence , as was formerly shewed . so that mr. prynnes truth now under consideration ( i meane his assertion so called ) is nothing so cleare , but that a rationall man may deny it ; yea , the more rationall a man is , he is the more like to deny it . the antiquerist having said , that the saints think christ alone is king over his churches , and hath not left them to substitutes , &c. whereas mr. prynne , page 6. replies thus ; if hee meanes it onely of matters of faith , or of internall government over the soules of men , it may pass as tolerable ; it is ( as i conceive ) an expression which may not pass as tolerable , being worse then an ordinary error , or then more then an ordinary mistake . he that calls any thing tolerable , must needs suppose it either to be evil , or inconvenient ( at the best . ) now if mr. prynne thinks it either evill or inconvenient , that christ should be king alone over his churches , in matters of faith and internall government of their soules , it is no marvell if he seeks to interesse men in a legislative power over his churches in respect of their externall government ; it is a marvell rather , that he seekes not to infringe his title and claime even to the internall government of their soules also , and that hee anoints not representative bodies of churches and states , with authority to repeale the articles of the old creed , and to enact another . whereas ( in the same page ) hee tells his antiquerist , that hee must renounce his oath of allegeance , his late protestation , and nationall vow and covenant , make foure or five canonicall scriptures apocrypha , with some such other mormolukies as these , if he thinkes christ to be king alone over his churches , in point of externall ecclesiasticall government , discipline , or order ; i conceive this consequence of his to be inconsequent & a mistake . for first , the scriptures he specifies , rom 13. 1. to 6. 1 pet. 2. 13. 14. tit. 3. 1. 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. speake nothing of ecclesiasticall government , nor of any subjection unto kings or rulers in matters of conscience , or religion ; but onely of that obedience which is due unto them in civill things : yea some of them ( the last by name ) not so much as of either . and secondly , for the nationall vow and covenant , doubtlesse they that took and sware that , did not abjure the absolute monarchicall independent power of christ over his churches , nor did they swear homage or fealty to any other lord or lords , but with a salvo jure , &c. saving the rights and priviledges of the lord paramount , jesus christ ; amongst which that is one of the most undoubted ones , to have the sole dominion over the faith and consciences of men , especially in things concerning the worship and service of god. and thirdly and lastly , for the oath of allegeance , and late protestation , either there is nothing contained in either of these , but what is of a cleare and perfect consistence with this sole dominion of christ over the faith and consciences of men : or if there be , the renouncing of them will be more honourable and safe for christians , then their taking of them was , or then their standing by their ingagement in that kind will be . but whereas ( page 7. ) he affirmes , that christ hath delegated his kingly power to christian kings , magistrates , and highest civill powers ; as likewise bequeathed his propheticall office unto ministers : these certo certius are errors in the highest , undermining ( i shall not abate , wilfully and presumptuously , in the reckoning ) the undoubted priviledges of the throne of jesus christ by the very roots . for are not the offices of christ incommunicable ? appropriable only unto him who is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god & man , and mediator ? or is christ retired from the throne of his glory , to live privatly as a recluse , to solace & enjoy himselfe in some solitary angle or by-corner of heaven ? or hath he eas'd his shoulder of that great burthen of the government of the world , which was laid by god upon it , devolving it upon the shoulders of others ? where is then the promise of the everlastingnesse of his kingdome , and of the continuance of his dominion throughout all ages ? and where is the prediction of his delivering up his kingdome unto his father , if he hath delivered it up ( or down rather ) unto men ? surely he means to call for it againe out of their hands , before that day . but if kings and magistrates have the kingly power of christ delegated unto them , they have all power given unto them both in heaven and earth , and consequently have not onely a right and lawfullnesse of authoritie to command as well all the angels of heaven , as men on earth , but also to incline and bow the hearts of both , to the willing execution & fulfilling of those commands . and if so , let them impose what ecclesiasticall government or discipline they please , they may , if they please , be obeyed and submitted unto upon what terms , with what willingnesse and readinesse , and by whom they desire . and if ministers be invested in the propheticall office of christ , how dares mr prynne refuse to hearken unto them ? or ingage himself in a theologicall warre against them , having no part or fellowship in this office himself ? will he subject the spirit of the prophets , yea , of those that prophecie in the authoritie , and by the vertue of the propheticall office of christ , unto himself , and his own spirit , being no prophet at all ? letentur tenebrae , erubescat lux . againe , whereas ( in the same page ) he votes , that if any man deny a certain odd kind of veritie ( so called and asserted by him ) he must renounce not onely his christianitie , but his allegeance and humanitie too ; i utterly renounce the consequence , conceiving it to be tantamont with an absolute mistake . for a man may deny , that every christian in point of conscience is bound by the expresse resolution of rom. 13. 1. 1 pet. 2. 14 , 15. ( with severall other scriptures as little to the purpose ) without any danger of blind obedience , to lawfull decreas , consonant to gods word , &c. without renouncing , yea , or so much as a shew of renouncing his christianitie ( and much more of his humanitie . ) for what hath a mans humanitie to doe with the expresse resolution of rom. 13. 1. to 6. ezra . 7. 26. josh . 1. 16 , 17 , &c. or what hath the expresse resolution of these and other texts , to preserve a mans christianitie from the danger of bind obedience , even to lawfull decrees , in case the lawfulnesse of them be not seene , nor so much as examined , by those that submit unto them ? a man is in the same danger of blind obedience , as well in respect of lawfull , as unlawfull decrees . yea , a man that after a serious and conscientious debate , shall upon a mistaken ground submit unto an unlawfull decree , acquits himself more like a christian , and with better acceptation unto god by following the light of his conscience upon such terms , then he that shall subject himself unto a lawfull decree , without knowing , or caring to know , what , why , or wherefore he so doth . againe , whereas ( in the same page ) he taxeth the anti-querist for presuming an oversight in the parliament and synod , before it be actually committed , and censures this ( imaginary ) act of his , as neither christian , charitable , nor any way of christ ; and for the proofe hereof , cites 1 cor. 13. 5. 7. certainly , all this is an oversight , and nothing els but the presuming of an oversight , where none is . for he that saith thus , suppose the whole parliament and synod should erre in commanding a government , &c. doth not so much as suppose , much lesse presume , that either of them will so erre ; no more then the apostle paul , in saying , if christ be not risen a , presumes , that christ is not risen : least of all doth that text , 1 cor. 13. 5. 7. prove that act or speech of the anti-querist here taxed , to be either unchristian , or uncharitable . nor is that marginall note in the same page excusable at any lower rate then a mistake of that kind , which they that speak sparingly , are wont to call an untruth ; which chargeth the independent party , that without discovery or proofe of their way , they will have the presbyterians blindly to submit unto it , as the onely way of christ . never was a poor innocent margin compell'd to carry a more guilty annotation then this . it is the first-born of abhorrencies in independency , to compell any man blindly to submit unto any thing . that infinuation following , is an arrow shot from the same bow , viz. that the anti-querist and his , oppose and prejudicate both the parliaments and synods proceedings , though never so pious , conscientious and religious . this were something to the purpose , if there were any thing to the proofe . verùm de genere hoc adeò sunt multa , &c. whereas p. 8. because the two brethren in their reply to a. s. used this expression concerning the congregationall government , that in time it cannot but overthrow all other sorts of ecclesiasticall government , he gathers upon them with this insulting interrogatory ; is it not then a turbulent , dangerous , schismaticall , unquiet ( that i say not , insufferable ) government by your own confessions , which will admit no equall nor corrivall , &c. is not this , either through weaknesse of understanding , or strength of a worse principle , an insufferable interpretation ? or can it but call to remembrance , that testimony of those two against our saviour ( who are call'd false witnesses for their labour , mat. 26. 60. ) wherein they testified , that he had said , i can destroy the temple of god , and build it againe in three dayes , as if he had spake concerning the materiall temple , whereas it is evident from joh. 2. 21. that he spake concerning the temple of his body ? in like manner , what the two brethren spake ( as is most apparent in the passage cited by him from p. 111. of the said reply ) concerning the finall prevailing of the congregationall government over other governments , by reason of that affinitie which it hath with the truth , and consonancy with the word of god , this man will needs interpret , as if they spake it in respect of some fierce , fiery , turbulent & domineering spirit , wherewith that way of government should be haunted or inspired above all others ; yea , his pen blusheth not to avouch ( in effect ) that themselves confesse as much . the whole passage in the said reply , that the reader may the better judge , is this ; indeed , by the beauty and perfect consonancy of this government to the word of god , it may very reasonably ( yea and upon higher terms then of reason , meaning i suppose , of faith ) be thought that in time it cannot but overthrow all sorts of ecclesiasticall government , and stand up it self in their stead . those words in this period , it cannot but overthrow all sorts of church-government , they borrow from the pen of their adversary , ( as appeares by their different character ) in which respect , for a man confederate with him in the same cause , to put a sinister or malevolent construction upon them , though used by his opposites , is very unnaturall , and a breach of ingenuitie ( i verily beleeve ) without president . whereas a few lines after , he vapours thus ; will any parliament , state , or nation ( think you ) suffer such a government to take root among them , which will un-king , un-parliament , un-church , un-nation them altogether , and make each severall congregation an absolute monarchie , church , &c. a man would think he were calling for the making of three tabernacles , one for moses , and one for elias , and a third for himself , not knowing indeed what he speaketh . in case a few poore christians , persons truly fearing god , shall be permitted to worship and serve god in such a way , wherein they may injoy the peace of their consciences being tender , is such a permission as this , of any such formidable aspect , as to threaten , either the un-kinging of a state , or the un-parliamenting of a parliament , or the un-nationing of a nation , or the un-churching of a church ? or are such persons more likely , or upon terms of any moe advantage ( in case their inclinations stood for it ) to bring any of these doomes-dayes upon a state or nation , when they are permitted to worship and serve god with peaceablenesse of conscience , then they would be , in case they were compelled contrary to their conscience in both ? surely the man to whom the shadowes of the mountaines seemed men , was very prudent and advised in his feare , in respect of him that is terriculamented with such apocryphall pretences of feare , as these . et si nullus erit pulvis , tamen excute nullum : quaelibet officio causa sit apta tuo . whereas he saith , p. 9. that in parliaments every particular man hath his vote , though not in proper person , yet in their deputies ; and yet p. 24. that there be a degree of vulgar people , who have no votes in parliamentary elections , ( and consequently can have no deputies ) i shall claime no priviledge of determining , which is the error or mistake ; but freely give him leave to be his own carver herein : let either number 9 , or number 24. be condemned for either , that so the law of contradictories however may be satisfied , and all my demands are satisfied in this particular . whereas p. 9. he so much rejoyceth over that saying of his own , that there is no example of gathering independent congregations , not of infidels , but of men already converted to , & setled in the christian faith , unlesse derived from the private conventicles , of arrians , novations , donatists , and other heretiques , who yet were not independent among themselves ; as if it were a true saying indeed , and onely bitter to independents , because undeniable ; the truth is , that the truth of it ( were it granted ) will hardly equall the dust in the ballance , to make the cause he maintains weight . he that saith , there is no example of gathering independent congregations of men already converted to , and setled in the christian faith , unlesse derived , &c. must needs suppose and grant , that there are examples of gathering such congregations of men not yet setled in the christian faith , which are not so derived , &c. according to the tenor of that knowne maxime ; exceptio firm it regulam in non exceptis . he that should say thus , there is no example of any man truly sanctified , that ever finally apostatis'd from his christian profession ; implies and grants , that there are or may be examples of persons never truly sanctified , who did so apostatise . now if there be examples of gathering independent congregations , of men onely converted to the christian faith , though not yet established or setled in it , other then those that are derived from the conventicles of heretiques ; it is an argument of more strength to countenance the congregationall government , then any mr prynne hath brought either to disable that , or to strengthen the other , in whose defence his pen so much triumpheth . suppose the apostles did build up or gather independent churches or congregations onely of persons newly converted to the christian faith , and not of such as had been setled herein , yet 1. this amounts to an expresse patterne of ( and consequently to a sufficient warrant for ) gathering independent congregations simply , or in such cases , wherein there is not error in personis . nay , 2. if these apostolicall independent congregations did at their first gathering or framing consist onely of persons lately infidells , and as yet newly converted unto , and not setled in christianitie , yet afterwards , the same congregations must needs be supposed to consist of persons setled in christianitie also , unlesse we will suppose either that such as were converted by the apostles to the faith , were never either by them , or any others setled herein ; or els that upon such setling of them , their congregations were either broken up and dissolved , or els specifically chang'd in their government . either of which suppositions , though to others they may be but as gnats , easie to be swallowed , yet to me they are camells , i cannot get them downe . so that we see mr prynne hath gotten nothing yet by his true undeniable passage , ( for which notwithstanding , he scarcely refraineth from sacrificing unto his pen ) but onely the giving of his adversaries such an argument for their cause , which he will never be able to take away from them . and whereas in the latter part of this passage , he would insinuate , ( that which more plainly he affirms a few periods after ) that those that gather independent congregations , derive their practise from the examples , of novatians , donatists , and other heretiques ; whom yet he denies to have been independent amongst themselves ; it is as if he should challenge women that are modest and chaste , for deriving their behaviour from the example of josephs mistresse , or servants that were loyall and faithfull to their masters , for imitating the practise of judas iscariot . now since the passage we wot of , whilst supposed true and undeniable , doth us more service , then the eviction of it for false , would doe ; i conceive not my self bound , either in point of wisdome or conscience , to make a labour of the confutation or conviction of it . whereas p. 10. he demands , why the nationall church of the jews under the old testament , should not be a patterne for us to imitate , as well as their nationall covenant , fasting , sabbath-keeping ; the question ( i conceive ) carries an error ( or at least a mistake ) in the ground and foundation of it . it supposeth , that we covenant , fast , keep sabbath , &c. onely in imitation of that nation , who did the like , and that we have no other ground for these practises , but the nationalitie of the like observations amongst the jews : whereas if we had no better foundation for them then this , the nationall idolatries of that people would be a patterne for us to imitate , as well as these . if mr prynne will needs have the nationall church of the jews , a pattern for us to imitate , let him procure an injunction from heaven for the imitation , and we are ready to joyne issue with him . whereas p. 11. he saith , that wicked members of a church , when excommunicated , after they are baptized , do not actually cease to be members , &c. certainly it is a mistake , one or more , if nihil supra . for 1. if such members when excommunicated , doe not actually cease to be members , i would know whether then they cease to be such potentially onely ? if so , they ceased thus to be members , as soone as ever they became members ; they were then in potentiâ remotâ of ceasing to be members , as a man is of dying , as soone as he is borne : or if we speak of potentia propinqua , they thus ceas'd to be members , upon the committing of those sins , which rendered them justly obnoxious either unto excommunication by the church , or unto death by the civill magistrate , before either of these censures or sentences pass'd upon them . therefore if they actually cease not to be members when excommunicated , they cease not at all to be members ; or at least no otherwise , then they ceased to be before such excommunication : and if either , what doe we with this learned impertinencie , actually ? but 2. if wicked members when excommunicated , doe not actually cease to be members , i marvaile our saviour should allow them no better quarter amongst their fellows , then to be look'd upon as heathens and publicans ? mat. 18. 17. it seems heathens and publicans may be actuall members of mr prynnes presbyterian church ; yea , though they be by the highest hand the church can lift up , cast out of it . ne verè , ne me ad tales compellite coetus . and 3. and lastly , what mysterious notion he should intend to let in , or what dangerous conceit he should intend to shut out by that emphaticall insertion , after they are baptized , is out of the hemisphere of my apprehension . all that i can work out of it , is this ; that there is or may be a two-fold excommunication of the members in a christian church ; one , before they are baptized , and another , after : and that by the power of the former excommunication , they actually cease to be members of their respective churches ; not so by vertue of the latter , which ( it seems ) is either more indulgent , or lesse vigorous and active . if this be mr prynnes doctrine , it is most properly and peculiarly his ; libera per primos posuit vestigia princeps : if it be not his , sensum & sententiam vestram , ô verba , after they are baptized . whereas immediately after , he argues thus , that since none separated from the churches of ephesus , colosse , smyrna , and though they had some corruptions and evill members , therefore for us to separate from , and un-church such nationall or parochiall churches , which have such members in them , is to un-church all churches in the old and new testament , &c. he commits as many errors in arguing , as a man shall lightly meet with within such a compasse of words . for 1. he must be beholding either to an abundant weaknesse or charitie ( th' one ) in his reader , to obtaine the grant of that which is the base or rise of this whole argumentation , viz. that none separated from the churches of ephesus , colosse , &c. negative proofes from the scripture in this case are not concluding . but suppose charitie should cover the nakednesse or weaknesse of this supposition , and passe it as a truth , yet 2. that such a supposition should argue , that to separate from nationall or parochiall churches which have evill members in them , is to un-church all churches in the old and new testament , hath neither head , nor foot , neither body nor soule of reason in it . for 1. they who separate from a nationall church , supposing no place or ground for such a church under the new testament , have no ground or colour but to judge that such a church was lawfull , and truly so called under the old : as they who now separate themselves from circumcision and other judaicall observations , as superstitious and highly displeasing unto god , doe in no reasonable construction hereby deny , but that sometimes they were , or might have been , a legitimate and acceptable worship unto him . 2. nor is there any sinew or strength of reason at all in this position ; they who separate from a nationall or parochiall church , which have wicked members in them , doe therefore separate , because of these members , more then there is in this ; they who avoid the company of men with heads , doe therefore avoid them , because they have heads . there may be reasons more then enough , of separating either from a nationall , or from a parochiall church , besides the wickednesse of some of the members of them : yea , i doe not conceive that ever any man separated from either of these churches , nationall or parochiall , simply or solely upon this ground : nor doe i judge it a sufficient cause of separation from either . mr prynne himself hath separated from the church of england as episcopall , and hath given the strength of his assistance to cast it into another frame or mould of government , whereby it will specifically differ from it self : and yet it is a plain case , that he hath not made this separation from it , because of the wickednesse of some of the members that were in it , whilst episcopall ; because it is like to have many of this character , in case it shall be torkened to presbyterall . therefore a man may separate either from a nationall or parochiall church which have wicked members in it , without unchurching ( yea , or disparaging ) any church at all , either in the old or new testament . whereas p. 12. he collects thus ; if independents denie that there were diverse particular congregations at jerusalem , then they must prove , that all the apostles and elders at jerusalem , were pastors but of one and the self-same individuall congregation ; it is at least a mistake , though pardonable in a lawyer , yet not in a logician . for 1. suppose there were diverse particular congregations at jerusalem , it doth not follow , therefore all the elders belonging to these severall congregations , were pastors of them , except we stretch the signification of the word , pastor , beyond the staple of the scriptures , ( as presbyterians i confesse , usually doe to help themselves at a dead lift ) and extend it unto all manner of governours and officers in the church . and consequently , a pluralitie of congregations at jerusalem may be denied ; though no proofe or supposition be made , that all the apostles and elders at jerusalem , were pastors to one individuall congregation . 2. a pluralitie of congregations supposed , it doth not follow , that all , or any of the apostles , were pastors unto any of them ; pastors and apostles being contra-distinguished , eph. 4. 11. he therefore gave some apostles , some prophets , some evangelists , some pastors and teachers . the apostles had a commission to preach unto any particular church , or churches , without being made pastors unto them : yea , himself afterwards in this very page confesseth , that the apostles were not immediate ministers or pastors to particular churches . therefore mr prynnes collection ( however ) faulters . 3. ( and lastly ) the presence or continuance of so many of the apostles at jerusalem for a time ( for that all the apostles should be present at the meeting , act. 15. is onely mr. prynnes gospel ) no wayes implies , that their stay there was so much either for the government or edification of the particular church of jerusalem , whether consisting of one or more congregations , as for the generall accommodation of the gospel , and of the affaires of all particular churches elsewhere ; this citie being their head-quarter , or rendevouz , from whence upon occasion they might , and did the more commodiously issue forth by parties into other parts , upon their spirituall designs , as god called them , or gave opportunitie . so that there is no necessitie at all lying upon them , who conceive that there was onely one congregation at jerusalem , to prove , that all the apostles and elders there were pastors of one and the self-same individuall congregation . he tells me p. 24. of my independent fabrique fastened together with independent grochets : but i can assure him , that if his presbyterian fabrique be not fastened together and supported by better crochets and crutches , whether dependent , or independent , then are to be found in the words either of his twelve considerable serious questions , or of his independencie examined , or of this his full reply , it will drop one piece from another , and the honour of it soone lie in the dust . the inference which he would make by way of question , in the words immediately following those already insisted upon , complaines of the same weaknesse with the former . and then ( saith he ) what becomes of their independent churches , which have no apostle , and onely one pastor , &c. i presume his presbyterian churches want apostles , as much as the independent : and if these be peccant through such a defect , i hope those will not be justified . but how effeminate and loose a consequence is this : the church at jerusalem had apostles and elders to be the pastors of it : therefore that church that hath not both apostles and elders to be the pastors of it , is or can be no true church ; as if pastors made of apostles ( in case there had been such ) had been of the essence of the church at jerusalem . if either mr. prynne , or any other , shall shew me any one such independent crochet as this and twenty more in this reply , in any of my writings , i shall freely confesse a judgement against them to the fire . whereas ( p. 12. ) he pretends to find , an impregnable evidence of the lawfulnesse of nationall synods , parliaments , in all christian kingdomes , and of an authoritie given them to determine all ecclesiasticall controversies , settle , order all church-affaires , &c. in the frequent generall nationall assemblies , synods — among the israelites , prescribed , appointed by god , and no waies contradicted , revoked under the gospel , invested with such authoritie , &c. he is ( questionlesse ) mistaken over and over . for 1. the assembly spoken of 1 chron. 13. 1. to the 14. ( the prime place produced by him to prove his generall nationall assemblies , synods , amongst the israelites , prescribed , appointed by god ) is neither there , nor any where else in scripture said to have been prescribed , appointed by god. nor 2. did this assembly , consisting ( the king himself excepted ) of the captaines of thousands , and of hundreds , of every leader , ( a very strange synod to determine all ecclesiasticall controversies ) either claime or exercise any authoritie in this kind ; but only resolved upon the sending to , and gathering together the priests and levites , with the generalitie of the people of the land from all parts , as not thinking it meet to remove the ark without their presence and consent . nor 3. were the members of this assembly , synod , chosen by the respective synagogicall congregations in the land ; and consequently no such impregnable evidence of the lawfulnesse of nationall assemblies , synods , now ; though for my part i never questioned the lawfulness of such assemblies , synods , as these , but onely the lawfulnesse of some power , which some of these claim and exercise . 4. nor did this , nor any other generall nationall assembly , synod , any where to be found in scripture , ever enact any thing concerning the worship and service of god , under mulcts and penalties , but what god himself had plainly determined and adjudged to be done , in his law. nor was this done by any select assembly , synod , consisting onely of priests and levites , or of persons voted into places of authoritie by the generalitie of the people of the land , but by the generality of the people themselves met together , with an uniforme , full and free consent and approbation on all hands . it is said , 2 chron. 15. 9 , 10. 12 , 13 , &c. ( another scripture cited by mr. prynne , to prove the aforesaid gain-said conclusion ) that all judah and benjamin , and the strangers with them out of ephraim , and manasseh , and out of simeon , gathered themselves together at jerusalem , and entered into a covenant to seek the lord god of their fathers , with all their heart , and with all their soule , that whosoever would not seek the lord god of israel , should be put to death , whether small or great , — and all israel rejoyced at the oath , &c. here is no compelling of any man by any authoritative synod of priests and levites , nor by any assembly of the nobles or persons delegated by the people , to submit-unto such a law , or such a covenant , as is mentioned ; but the generalitie of the people in their proper persons , did voluntarily and freely with one consent enter into this association or agreement between themselves , and confirmed it by an oath . 5. ( and lastly ) that which was here generally agreed upon , and solemnly sworne by the people under the penaltie of death , viz. the seeking of the lord god of their fathers , &c. was not any matter of doubtfull disputation , any determination of the sense and meaning of any conttoversall passage of scripture , was not any thing ensnaring , any thing destructive to the peace and comfort of those that were tender and conscientious amongst them : no : it was nothing but what in expresness and plainness of words , was required of them by god himself in their written law a ( which they had all owned and voluntarily subjected themselves unto formerly b . ) the contrary to it , viz. idolatry , being as expresly and plainly forbidden in the same law , and that ten times over c . yea , it was the effect of the first & greatest commandement of this law ; some lively sparkes and impressions whereof remaine to this day in the fleshly tables of mens hearts , anciently written by the finger of god , without the mediation of scripture instruction . thus you see mr. prynnes impregnable evidence for the lawfulnesse of an authoritie in nationall synods , parliaments , assemblies , for determining all ecclesiasticall controversies , &c. plainly non-suited , and defaced . — irus & est subito , qui modo croesus erat . no such authority as that wherein he seekes to infeoffe generall nationall assemblies , synods , in determining ecclesiasticall controversies , &c. will ever be evidenced from any assembly , synod , heard of in the scriptures . whereas ( page 13. ) from the words of his antagonist there expressed , he drawes this conclusion , therefore the infant-church in the apostles dayes was not so compleat , perfect in all points , as the multiplied or grown churches afterwards , either he amphibologizeth , or else his conclusion is an absolute mistake in reference to his purpose . for though the infant-church in the apostles dayes , that is , christian churches in their first bud and spring , in and about the beginning of the apostles dayes , and their first going forth into the world to preach the gospell , were not so compleat , perfect in all points , as either the same , or other churches were afterwards , viz. towards the later dayes of the apostles in the world , when they had supplied and added all things necessary , and any wayes appertaining to the beauty and well-being of these churches in point of government and discipline ; yet it follows not from hence , that either these , or any other succeeding churches after the apostles dayes , how multiplied or grown soever , ever grew to more beauty or perfection in point of government , then these had attained unto , before the apostles were taken away by death from them . this conclusion indeed , if mr. prynne could have made lawfull prize of it , from the premises of his adversary , would have smiled a little upon his cause : but for the other , it holds no correspondencie at all with it , but rather frowns upon it . for if the apostles left the churches of christ in the perfection of beauty for matter of government , it must needs follow , that any variation from that forme of government wherein they left them , is rather matter of deformity then perfection . whereas ( in the same page ) he affirmes with an high hand , that if the parliament and synod shall by publicke consent establish a presbyteriall church-government , as most consonant to gods word , — independents and all others are bound in conscience to submit unto it , under pain of obstinacie , singularity , &c. in case they cannot really , by direct texts , and precepts , prove it diametrically contrary to the scripture . — i conceive it to be a jeofaile in theologie , a mistake in stead of a truth . for first , a man is not bound in conscience to doe any thing that is commanded , though both the authority whereby it is commanded , yea and the thing it selfe which is commanded , be never so lawfull , whilst his judgement and conscience remain considerably doubtfull , and unsatisfied touching the lawfulnesse of it , especially whilst they vehemently incline to thinke and judge the contrary ; least of all , whilst the contrary is the absolute and unquestioned decision of both ; yea , though the grounds of such a doubt or determination bee never so insufficient and weake . the scripture is cleare in this , let every man be fully perswaded ( or assured ) in his own mind , or understanding , ( viz. concerning the lawfulnes of what he doth ) & not build upon , or content himself with the mind and understanding of others , rom. 14. 5. again , he that doubteth , is condemned if he eat , because he eateth not of faith ; i. not out of a ful perswasion or knowledge in himselfe of the lawfulnes of his eating in such a kind : for whatsoever is not of faith [ i. is acted or done , and not out of such a knowledge ] is sinne , rom. 14. 23. now certaine it is , that no man is bound in conscience , under pain of obstinacie , singularity , &c. to sinne , or bring damnation upon himselfe . the truth is , that to scruple or question the lawfulnes of any thing that is commanded by the high hand of authority to be done , is somwhat singular in the world ; and so deserves not the pain , but the honour of singularity : but that such a behaviour or deportment as this , should suffer the pain of obstinacy , is as contrary to reason , as that the sunne should be arrested for being a nuysance unto the world with his darknes . 2ly , if by proving the contrariety of what he speaks of , unto the scriptures , by direct texts and precepts , he means , the producing of such texts of scripture wherin this contrariety is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in terminis , or in tofidem verbis expressed , he binds a heavier burthen on the shoulders of others , then he is willing himself to touch w th the least of his fingers , in all he hath publickly discoursed hitherto upon this subject ; yea , heavier then either god , or the common light of reason in men , will suffer to be bound upon them in this case . the sadducees were bound to beleeve the resurrection of the dead by vertue of this text , i am the god of abraham , and the god of isaac , and the god of jacob , exod. 3. 6. wherein notwithstanding there is no direct or expresse mention made of this resurrection , as appears mat. 22. 31 , 32. in like manner the corinthians were bound to think it a matter of duty to minister in their carnall things , unto those that sowed spirituall things unto them , by vertue & warrant of this scripture , thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that tradeth out the corn , deu. 25. 4. ( as appears 1 cor. 9. 8 , 9. ) & yet evident it is , that the direct letter of such a duty is not here to be found . what proposition soever , shall , or may be found to be a legitimate and native consequence or deduction from any text in scripture being found , ought to be of the same sacred consideration unto us , and according to the tenor of it , of the same obligation upon us , with that scripture-ground from whence it issueth and is derived . for if the first fruits bee holy , so is the whole lump : and if the root bee holy , so are the branches , rom. 11. 16. therefore that church-government which shall be overthrowne by a direct and pregnant consequence from a text , is as sufficiently overthrowne , as if the defeat had been given by the most direct and expresse letter of such a text . whereas ( page 14. ) hee superaddes this notion ( in a passage much of the same import with the last brought under examination ) that though the establishment of a government by the parliament and assembly , doth not bind all independents to be simply of their opinion , yet it binds them in point of practice and obedience outwardly thereto , and not to separate under pain of arrogancie , faction , schisme , unlesse they can clearly manifest it to be absolutely unlawfull and repagnant to the scriptures . i conceive he addes unto his mistakes , if not unto his errors . for first , whereas he here supposeth , that independenters must separate from the government that shall bee established by parliament and assembly , ( and so must undergoe the pains and penalties imposed upon that crime by the law of his pen ) in case they doe not , or shall not submit unto it , hee should have done well to consider , that separation still presupposeth former union . those whom god hath joyned together , let not man separate , a or put asunder . that woman cannot bee divorced , nor yet forsake her husband , which never was married ; no more can independents be said ( unlesse by saying that which had been better unsaid ) to separate from that government unto which they never were yet united . therefore let mr. prynne , and all other of the presbyterian judgement , know assuredly , that they will never gain any thing but the wages of unrighteousnesse by charging their brethren of the congregationall way , either with separation or schisme . secondly , to affirme , that a man though he be not of their opinion , who shall establish a government ( he must meane , touching the lawfulnesse of the government so established , or else it is nothing to the purpose ) is yet bound in point of outward practise and obedience to submit thereunto , is a note beyond that elah of the familists , wherein they teach , that if a man shall keep his heart and mind sound and uncorrupted within , he may for his safety or accommodation otherwise , comply outwardly with any idolatrous worships or superstitions , or other unlawfull practises whatsoever . this generation it self , doth not hold such an outward compliance as this , simply necessary , in point of dutie or conscience , but onely lawfull in point of christian libertie . therefore mr. prynne wades deeper into these polluted waters , then they . 3. and ( lastly ) whereas he thinks sufficiently to proviso his former assertion , by adding , unlesse they can cleerly manifest it to be absolutely unlawfull and repugnant to the scriptures ; the truth is , that here is neither shield nor buckler that can saye it harmlesse . for 1. it is not the truth or soundnesse of a mans judgement standing in opposition to the supposed or asserted lawfulnesse of a thing , that makes the practise of the thing , during the present state of his judgement , unlawfull to him ; but the very tenor or state of his judgement in respect of such opposition , whether this state of it be good or bad , sound or unsound . much lesse 2. is it an abilitie in men to manifest unto others the truth or soundnesse of their judgements , when they stand bent against a practise that is injoyned as lawfull , that onely can excuse them from subjection . mens actions are not to be regulated either by a rhetoricall or logicall facultie of expressing themselves or their judgements to the conviction and satisfaction of others ; but by those impressions of righteousnesse and equitie that are in and upon their judgements , whether they be able to represent or commend them for such unto others , or no. shadrach , meshach , and abednego , were not able cleerly to manifest it unto nabuchadnezzar and his nobles , that it was absolutely unlawfull for them to fall downe and worship the golden image which he had set up : yet was it not therefore unlawfull for them to refuse subjection unto the kings commandement in that behalf . if the lawfulnesse of our refusing our superiours in their injunctions and commands , be suspended upon our abilitie to convince them of the unlawfulnesse of these commands , there will not be much danger in it to bid the papists god speed , when they bring the doctrine of blind obedience unto us . rare are those superiours , that care to impose any thing by way of command , of the unlawfulnesse whereof they can be willing to be convinced , especially by the commanded : and where there is no disposition , no willingnesse towards a conviction , arguments and demonstrations are ( for the most part ) but as sounding brasse , and tinkling cymballs . leviathan in regard of the strength and toughnesse of his skin and scales , esteemeth iron as straw , and brasse as rotten wood : the arrow cannot make him flee : the stones of the sling are turned with him into stubble , job 41. 27 , 28. whereas ( p. 14. ) he saith , that if the parliament should settle independencie , i am certain you would then write and preach for universall obedience to it , without dispute ; doubtlesse this certaintie of his is but a confident mistake ; for 1. it is no wayes consistent with the principles of that government he speaks of , to urge or presse universall obedience to it ; because it professeth an absolute incapacitie in farre the greatest part of men ( for the present ) for it ; nor doth it expect that the universalitie of men will ever become capable of it . this government pleadeth for no subjection to it , but from those that are saints , at least in view , such i mean , who doe not in works or deeds denie that faith , which in words they professe . such as these the scripture pronounceth to be worse then infidells : and therefore whilst such , they are not capable of part & fellowship in that government , which is appropriate to the kingdome , or churches of christ . neverthelesse , it earnestly prayeth for , and by every other good way and means is ready to endevour the conversion of these unto god : onely it judgeth not meet to bring them into the temple , untill they be purified . nor 2. doth this government presse for subjection unto it from the saints themselves , without dispute : it cares for no proselytes , but for those that are first instructed , and made disciples . it disdaignes so far to undervalue its beautie and lovelinesse , as to ravish or force the conscience of any man. whereas ( p. 16. ) he makes it an apparent schisme , separation from all other churches , for independent churches to appeale onely to churches of their own partie ; i conceive it is a repetition of a former mistake , with the augmentation of a new . for 1. there is no place for the crimes of schisme or separation , but where a preceding union hath prepared it . well may it be a crime or fault of another nature or kind in congregationall churches , to limit themselves in point of appeale , unto churches onely of their own constitution ; but for the crimes of schisme and separation here charged upon it , it is unquestionably innocent . and mr prynnes printer ( i presume rather casually , then consultedly ) by making it , not an apparant , but an apparent schisme , hath much eased the burthen of the charge ; and represents the action more like unto it selfe in point of truth , then the author himself intended ; for the truth is , there is no realitie or truth , but onely an appearance or shew ( at most ) of a schisme or separation in it . 2. it is but a mistaken supposition in him , to suppose , that in case an aggrieved partie in an independent church , shall chuse rather to appeale to a church ( one , or more ) of a differing government and constitution from their own , that this church will refuse to be accountable unto the church or churches so appealed unto , because they are not of the same constitution with it self . i beleeve there is no congregationall church any where , but if it be lawfully and in a christian manner required or called upon to do it , will be ready and willing to render an account of any of her actions or proceedings , not onely to a presbyterian church , but even to the meanest member of it . but 3. why he should call a voluntary account given by a church , a meere mockery in stead of an account , unlesse the church accounted unto , should have power to inforce it to correct its errors or injustice , my eyes can see no reason . for in case the church which willingly accounteth for her actions unto another , shall , upon the discovery and sight of any error or injustice in these her actions , as willingly retract and reforme them ( which , with the help and assistance of a very little charitie , may ordinarily , if not universally , be presum'd of saints ) why shall not such a reformation as this , being voluntary and free , be every whit as commendable and reall , as a reformation compelled or inforced would be ? and consequently , why should not an arbitrary or voluntary account , be as christian , as satisfactory , as reall , as that which is purchased by an iron rod ? or doth any church or association of churches , obtaine a quicker or richer spirit of discerning , or a more accomplished facultie of convincing churches that are delinquent , of their errors or injustice , by being armed with a compulsive power over them , then they were or would be capable of , if their authoritie were consultative and perswasive onely ? or hath a church called to an account for error or injustice , any more reason to acknowledge either for such , because they are adjudged such unto her , by churches ( one or more ) having a coactive power over her , then if this sentence were passed by churches not daring to claime , owne , or exercise any such power ? 4. and lastly , i would faine know , why it should be more schisme or separation , for an independent church to appeale onely unto churches of their owne partie , and not unto the presbyterian , then it is for presbyterian churches , to appeale onely to churches of their partie , and not unto the independent ; considering , that churches of this constitution , are every whit as much ( at least ) churches of christ , as those of the other . but the truth is , it being lawfull and free ( as himself here supposeth ) for churches to appeale to churches , as well of the one constitution , as of the other , that it is somewhat an uncouth and strange conceit , to make schisme or separation of appealing either unto the one , or the other . whereas ( p. 17. ) he gives us leave to differ in judgement from the decrees of synods and parliaments , when erroneous and contrariant to the expresse word , not to our owne fancies , inferences , or opinions ; doubtlesse , he mistakes , taking that away from us with the one hand , which he gives us with the other ; which , i presume was not his intention . for if we may not differ in judgement from synodicall decrees , when they are contrariant to our opinions , wee may not so differ from them at any time . or may we , or can we differ in judgement from that , which is not contrary to our opinion ? though mr prynne differs in judgement from those that hold forth the congregationall way , yet ( it seems ) he may be of the same opinion with them concerning that way . whereas ( in the same page ) he demands of us , if we deem not our selves more holy then our brethren , or be not sweld up with spirituall pride , why refuse we to close with them now , as we have done heretofore ? the ground of the demand ( questionlesse ) is a mistake , and should not suffer ultrâ condignum , if it were called an error . there may be many reasons why one man closeth not with another in point of judgement ( and consequently why not in practice also ? ) besides deeming himselfe more holy then his brother , from whom hee dissenteth , or being sweld up with spirituall pride . i doe not conceive that the apostle paul deemed himselfe more holy then peter , much lesse that he was sweld up with spirituall pride , when hee not onely dissented from him touching the justifiablenesse of that course and practice wherein peter now walked , but ( as the text saith a ) withstood him to his face ; but that the true ground of such both dissent and resistance , was partly the standing of pauls judgement in opposition unto , and dislike of what peter did ; partly the desire hee had of doing his fellow apostle the christian kindnesse of making streight that which was crooked in his way ; partly also ( if not principally ) his zeal and faithfulnesse to his lord and master jesus christ , and his gospel , and his saints , that none of these might suffer losse or disadvantage in the world by the misprisions , or miscarriages of any man , how great or holy soever , as farre as lay in his power to prevent it . nor would it have been any disparagement or dishonour at all to the name of mr. prynne , nor wound ( i beleeve ) to his conscience , if hee had wav'd those hard suggestions we spake of , and substituted these or the like in their stead , as the true grounds of his brethrens not closing with him , and those of his judgement in the presbyterian way . the truth is , that for my part ( and i verily beleeve that i may truly speak the same for many thousands more ) any conceit or deeming of my selfe more holy then others , was so far from interessing either my judgement or affections for the congregational way in the least , or from keeping me at any distance from my brethren of a contrary judgement , that a sense of mine owne defectivenesse therein , together with an earnest desire of better accommodations for my supplies , was not the least of those motives and arguments which carried and set my heart upon that way . and here i make open profession in the presence of heaven and earth , that if any of my brethren of opposite judgement , shall give me any reasonable account , or satisfaction , how in an ordinary way of providence , or experience , i may build up my selfe in holinesse , better ( or , if it be but as well ) in the way of presbytery , then in that way wherein i am for the present ingaged , i will soon pull down what i have built , and dwell no longer in the tents of independencie , but devote my selfe , and all my strength and might , to the service of that way , which for distinction sake is called presbyterie . for i make no question , but that way of church-government which hath the richest sympathy , and most direct and full compliance with the edification of the saints in holinesse , is against all reasons , grounds , and arguments of what seeming strength or evidence soever , the way which jesus christ hath sealed . for any harsh censures cast , or passed by any congregationall men upon mr. prynne , or other of their brethren of mr. prynnes judgement and way , i trust the complaint is to the height of the crime . i cannot justifie one harsh censure given , by a thousand received : but if there were a law for any such attonement , i make no question but that all the congregational delinquency in that kind , would be fully purged . if my pen hath trespassed in this kinde , ( whereof notwithstanding i am no ways conscious , though upon some charge , i have made diligent enquirie after my own guilt ) i hope the last period in this mr. prynnes reply a , will speak a good word for it , and salve the imputation of such a sin . hitherto i have examined onely such passages in the reply which concerne the common cause depending between the two wayes of church-government , so much ingaged in competition . my pen must now travaile for her selfe , and make triall of her strength for the redeeming of her own innocency out of the hand of those accusations , which have laid violent hands upon her . i intend scarce so much as to touch or mention any thing that was brought to the touch-stone in the former part of this discourse : a single vindication is large allowance for criminations without either substance , or colour of truth : the chiefe ( & almost the only ) thing which i have now to doe , is to weigh the discussions of mr. prynnes pen in opposition to those of mine , in the ballance of reason and truth , that so the reader , to whom judgement in this case belongeth , may give sentence accordingly . but first it is a thing almost incredible , ( doubtlesse farre beyond the belief of any sober or ingenuous man ) that a man of that name and reputation not only for learning , but for religion also , which mr. prynne is , should affirme , those 15. lines about the middle of page 18. to be the main doctrine prosecuted in my discourse called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : the said 15 lines being nothing else but a rapsody or collection of severall words , phrases , and expressions , scattered here and there throughout the discourse , some of them being expressly contrary to those restrictions and limitations , under which the doctrine there prosecuted , is propounded , and asserted in the explication of it . as for example ; whereas page 18. of the said theomachia , i expresse my selfe thus ; if to attempt the suppression , or keeping downe any way , doctrine or practice , which is from god , bee of no lesse concernment , of no safer interpretation then a fighting against god , then certainly it is the greatest imprudence , or improvidence under heaven , for any man , or rank of men whatsoever , to appeare , especially in any high-handed opposition , or contestation , against any way , &c. in stead of those words , to appeare , especially in any high-handed opposition , he , most unworthily and unchristianly substitutes these , to appeare , or so much as to lift up an hand , or thought against any way , &c. which falsification of my words is so much the more unsufferable because in the explanation of my doctrine , page 12. i expresse my selfe thus : it is not every degree or kind of opposing a way , doctrine , or designe of god , which either the text , or the doctrine calleth a fighting against god , but onely such an opposing which is peremptory , and carried on with an high hand , so that those instruments of god which hee hath anointed to hold forth that way , doctrine , or designe of his in the world , are not suffered to execute their commission , but are countermanded either by the authority , or over-bearing strength or power of men and immediatly after , for the further explanation of my intent in the doctrine proposed , i distinguish thus : it is one thing to oppose , or contend against a doctrine or way of god , per modum doctoris : another to doe it per modum judicis : the former i grant , may befall the best and faithfullest of men ; yea , the later i grant to be somtimes incident to men otherwise upright in the main before god ; onely affirming that the children of this later contention and contestation against their maker , must expect to be taught more wisdome and reverence towards him with thorns and briers . and that the reader may yet more clearly see and judge of mr. prynnes artifice in swelling my two lines ( at most ) of doctrine , into his 14. or 15. of representation , that so hee may have the fairer mark , and bigger but to hit , i shall verbatim transcribe it , as it is laid down about the middle of page 12. of the said discourse . the content and words of it are onely these : that for any man to endevour or attempt the suppression of any doctrine , practice or way , which is from god , is to fight against god himselfe . which doctrine , especially so qualified and understood , as the subsequent explication states the sense , purport , and meaning of it , i could not lightly expect should ever have been opposed , or contested against by any that were willing to owne abrahams relation of friendship unto god. but with what successe mr. prynne hath attempted to shake the foundations of the truth of it , or whether indeed he hath attempted this at all , and not rather ( contrary to the law of all regular disputation ) fallen foule onely upon the conclusion it selfe , without giving any answer at all unto the premises , shall bee presently taken into consideration . in the mean time let mee adde this : that if the grossest and most abhorred heretickes in the world , might have but the same liberty to prove their hereticall opinions out of the scriptures , which pryn taketh to represent the doctrine prosecuted by me , and quarrelled against by him , out of my sermons , they might prove them , and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from thence . for what opinion is there , or lightly can be imagined , but that all the words , wherin it is ( or at least very easily might be ) conceived , may be found some where or other scattered here and there severally in the scripture , & so be framed together into a sentence ? by the law of such a liberty as this , i might say , that mr. prynne , in his full reply , holds , that wee must speedily oppose , resist , avoid , suppresse , a parliaments , emperours , kings , judges , magistrates , ministers , b , even for conscience sake , and the lords sake too c . for all these words and clauses are to be found in this discourse of his , as the pages cited in the margine doe direct : yea , and twenty moe as wild and uncouth opinions , and as farre from mr. prinnes judgement as this , might by the liberty aforesaid , be collected out of the same piece . but let us come to consider those grounds and reasons , upon which , in mr. prynnes judgement , it may justly be questioned whether the doctrine expressed towards the beginning of the last section ( which is the maine , indeed the onely doctrine prosecuted in those two innocently-offending sermons ) be orthodox or tolerable . his first reason is ; because it opens a wide gate to the reviving of all the old , the speading and propagating of all new heresies , errors — without the least timely opposition or prevention , to the endangering of infinite soules , and disturbance of the churches , kingdomes peace . for there is no heretique , schismatique or sectarie whatsoever , but pretends his way , doctrine , practise , opinions , to be the way of christ , &c. will any reasonable man conceive , that there is any reason at all in all this , to question the truth or soundnesse of the prementioned doctrine ? for any man to forbeare the suppression of any doctrine or way which is ( for any thing that is knowne to the contrary ) from god , and that least he should fight against god , is this , to open a wide gate to all heresies , errors , and schismes ? then by the rule of contraries , the suppression of all doctrines and wayes , which for any thing that is knowne to the contrary , are from god , must be the fast-shutting of the gate against all heresies , errors , and schismes . this is the heart & soule of the first reason , which interesseth mr. prynnes judgement in questioning the orthodoxisme , yea , the tolerablenesse of the premised doctrine . but by the way , if mr. prynnes judgement concerning the doctrine , be , that it opens a wide gate to all heresies , errors , schismes , sects whatsoever , both new and old , &c. it is marvaile it should have no further operation upon him , then onely to prevaile with him to question whether it be orthodox or tolerable : such an effect or consequent of a doctrine as this , is foundation large enough to build a confident determination upon , that it is heterodox and intolerable . and for the body of this reason , wherein he informes us at large ( and that with truth enough ) that satan and his ministers also tranforme themselves into angels of light , that false teachers usually come to seduce men in sheeps cloathing , that there is no heretique , schismatique , or sectary whatsoever , though never so pernicious , grosse , and detestable , but pretends his way , doctrine , practise , to be the way and truth of christ ; with many other good sayings to like effect ; i cannot but marvaile , what a reasonable man should imagine to be in all this , to make him question the truth of this doctrine , that for any man to attempt the suppression of any doctrine , practise , or way which is from god , is to fight against god. because false teachers pretend their doctrine to be from god , doth it therefore follow , that the suppressing of such a doctrine which is from god , should not be a fighting against god ? it is somewhat an hard case , that a man should be arrested of a presumptuous undermining the undoubted priviledges of parliament by the very roots , at the suite of such a consequence as this . whereas upon the former assertions , he enters his action in such an interrogatory as this : must we therefore not speedily oppose , resist , avoyd , suppresse them now , because they thus pretend they are of , and from god , but stay till god hath renounced them , &c. i joyne issue with him , and say ; that there is little lesse then a meere contradiction in the forme of his plea ; those doctrines , practises , opinions , which in the former part of his plea , he had censured and condemned for heresies , errors , schismes , sects , &c. in this latter part of it he supposeth , that god hath not yet disclaimed , or renounced from heaven ; and that we see not their condemnation yet written with the beame of the sun. else why should he represent it as so unreasonable and hainous a thing , that we should stay the opposing and suppressing of them , till such things were done ? surely mr. prynne cannot be so hardy , as to condemne any doctrine or practise for hereticall or errneous , untill god hath some wayes or other disclaimed or renounced them from heaven , for such . it is he , not mr. prynne , that must , not onely determine , what is heresie , error , and schisme , but also signifie his determinations in this kinde , before it comes to mr. prynnes turne , or any mans beside , to give any such sentence against them at the barre of their judgements . a second reason which created that jealousie in him we spake of , against the forenamed doctrine , is the contrarietie of it to forty and one expresse precepts and presidents ( if my arithmetique failes me not in the computation ) in the old and new testament ; one whereof ( viz. jer. 4. 30 , 31. ) he avoucheth for pregnant ; but the rest ( it seems ) must be compared together , or else the contrarietie in them to the doctrine which he opposeth , will not utter it self . and it is well that he can be content to afford us leasure for the perusall of these scripture precepts and presidents , though he would afford us none , to peruse or consider of doctrines or practises , as we heard before . but 1. i must professe the second time , that i can little lesse then wonder , that the gentleman should onely question or suspect the orthodoxnesse of a doctrine , and not positively and peremptorily conclude it heterodox , which carrieth a contrarietie in it to forty-one expresse precepts and presidents of scripture . a man would think by such a streine of tendernesse and indulgence as this , that he were a very faire and favourable interpreter of mens opinions and wayes ; and would never exact or stand upon summam jus ( which the proverb interprets to be summam injuriam ) with any man. 2. if all the precepts and presidents here drawne together from the scriptures , be expresse , why is that one , jer. 4. 30 , 31. separated from all its fellows by this parenthes●s of preferment , [ a pregnant place ] as if all the rest were barren and empty of that conception , which is indifferently fathered , or mothered rather , upon them all ? and one other of them ( viz. gal. 2. 4. to 18. ) singularized with this parenthesis , [ a noted place ] ? if no contrarietie to the suspected doctrine be found either in the pregnant place , or in the noted place , i trust all the rest of the places will give place , and confesse themselves strangers thereunto . first , for the pregnant place , jer. 4. 30 , 31. doubtlesse , there is not so much as an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or an embryo of such a contrarietie to be found there . the tenor of the place is this ; and when thou art spoyled , what wilt thou doe ? though thou cloathest thy self with crimson , though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold , though thou rentest thy face with paynting ; in vaine shalt thou make thy self faire , thy lovers will despise thee , they will seek thy life , ver . 30. for i have heard a voyce as of a woman in travaile , and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child , the voyce of the daughter of zion , that bewaileth her self , that spreadeth her hands , saying , woe is me now : for my soule is wearied because of murtherers , ver . 31. i am not able to discerne the least swelling or bearing-out of the womb of either of these verses , with any contrarietie in the least , to the import of the doctrine now under protection . to attempt the suppression of any doctrine or way which is from god , may be a fighting against god , and yet god say to the daughter of his people , and when thou art spoyled , what wilt thou doe ? together with all that which followeth in the two transcribed verses . i beleeve the noted place is every whit as voyde of that contrarietie we speak of , as we found the pregnant place to be . mr. prynne himself , partly transcribes , partly argues this place , beautifying the words or clause wherein he chiefly puts his trust , with emphaticall letters , thus ; paul would not give way to false apostles , no not for an houre , that the truth of the gospel might continue among the galatians , and resisted peter to his face , as soone as ever he walked disorderly , ( he should have spake more truth , if he had said , as soone as ever he understood or knew , that he so walked ) and gave the least countenance to false teachers , &c. — fortassè cupressum , scis simulare : quid hoc , si fractis enatet expes navibus , aere dato qui pingitur ? mr. prynne doth very substantially prove , by this passage , and that which followes , that errour in doctrines , and miscarriages in persons , are to be resisted and withstood , ( by wayes and means warrantable by the word of god ) as soone as ever they are certainly discerned , or known to be such : but here is not the least semblance of an argument to prove , either that the one or the other , ought to be resisted or suppressed , before they are discovered or manifested to be such ; or that being discovered or manifested to be such , they ought to be either resisted or suppressed by any other means , then what god himself hath authorized in that behalf ; least of all , is there any jot , tittle , or peep of a proof of that , which is the burthen of mr. prynnes undertaking , viz. that to attempt the suppressing of any doctrine or way which is from god , is not to fight against god. nor doth his third reason any whit more accommodate his enterprize , then the former . for what contrariety , or shew of contrariety is there in these unquestionable maximes , of divinity , policy , and morality , principiis obsta●e : venienti occarrite morbo , &c. to that doctrine , which only pronounceth , the attempt of suppressing any doctrine or way which is of god , to be a fighting against god ? yea , or to this ; that no doctrine or way ought to be suppressed , untill it be certainly known , whether they be from god , or no ? he that gave counsell , principiis obstare , i● to withstand beginnings , did not mean to advise men to make resistance against such beginnings , which might , for ought they know , be as wel the beginings , of good , or of strength , as of evill or sicknesse ; but only such beginnings , which did cleerly presage inconvenience ensuing , if not timely prevented . and though all wise men hold preventing physique best for their bodies ; yet no wise man holds such physique best , or good in any degree for his body , which is as like to prevent the health and sound constitution of his body , as any infirmity or distemper of it . he that will either launce or seare , before he knowes whether the condition of his body requires either , may abound in flesh , but sure is no true born son of wisdome . that creature which is indued by god with principles of discerning , certainly was not made to act ( especially in things of highest importance , as matters of religion are ) at peradventure . his 4th and last reason holds no correspondence at all with the truth . for what contrariety is there in the doctrine under mr. pryns arrest , to the policy , practice of most godly magistrates , princes , ministers , churches in all ages , nations ? when did the policy or practice of any of these affirm , that to attempt the suppression of any doctrine or way which is from god , is not to fight against god ? if his meaning be , that the policy and practice of the persons hee represents , never indulged any known heresies , errors , schismes ; no , not for an houre , the doctrine against which hee contends , in this contends not at all against him , but gives him the right hand of fellowship in such an apprehension . only it adviceth godly magistrates , prince , ministers , churches , to be very carefull and wary , of suppressing angels of light indeed , instead of satan transformed into an angel of light ; of baiting and hunting the sheep of christ , in stead of wolves that come in sheeps clothing ; of smothering light in stead of darknesse , of smiting truth in stead of error and heresie . and is there any harme in this counsell or contrariety either to the policy or practice of any wise or godly man ? or , if there be any contrariety to either , it is because there is a contrariety in them to the word and wildome of god. whereas in the same reason , he makes himself a further debtor unto mee , by charging mee , that i plead for schismes and conventicles set up only by private spirits in opposition to the publique established church-reiglement . my answer is : 1. that i know a publique church-reiglement abrogated and demolished , but i know none as yet established . when mr. prynne by his logique shall convince mee of acting in opposition to that which is not , i trust i shall be provided with mine to give him a satisfying answer . 2. whereas he declares against me , as a pleader for schismes and conventicles ; i answer , that hee is the happiest man i know of his profession , if he never pleaded any worse cause , then that which i plead in those sermons . but whereas in other places of his reply , his margent glorieth with quotations in abundance , here ( it seems ) it is ashamed , as not knowing what to say , nor where to finde or point at , any pleading for schismes and conventicles , as the lines in the page adventure to affirm . 3. mr. prynnes privie notion of a schisme or conventicle is , i am not able to say : but if hee be here of the same minde and judgement with his own marginall note , p. 10. which affirmeth , that none are conventiclers but heretiques and schismatiques , who wholly separate themselves from our publique assemblies established by law ; certain i am , that i plead for no conventicles in those sermons ; nor do i approve of the practice of any , who wholly separate themselves from our publique assemblies . but calumniare audacter ; aliquid haerebit , holds good ( it seems ) in law. but , 4. if by pleading for schismes and conventicles , he means a pleading for the spirituall liberties of the congregations of the saints , and of the assemblies of the first-born , whose names are written in heaven , whom jesus christ hath made kings and priests unto god his father , b and who are shortly to judge the world , if the vindication ( i say ) of the rights and priviledges of these in point of exemption and immunity in their spirituall affaires , and such as concern the regulation of their consciences in matters appertaining to the worship and service of god , from the jurisdiction and interest of the commissioners and delegates of the world ; if this ( once again ) be pleading for schismes and conventicles , i had quitted my self much more like a faithfull minister of jesus christ , if i had pleaded for them yet seven times more , then now i have done . my sorrow and shame ( in part ) is , that i have pleaded this honourable cause so weakly , as to leave thoughts and imaginations in mr. prynne , which still exalt and magnifie themselves against the righteousnesse , truth , and equity of it . 5. and lastly , whereas hee calls the church-government which i plead for , a government set up only by private spirits ; if it be found to be a government set up by the spirit of god in the scriptures ( the consideration unto which all my pleadings for it in those sermons are homagers , being all of them conditionall , and none peremptory or absolute ) mr. prynnes spirit , and the spirits of all others that shall oppose it , how publique soever their persons may be , will be found to be the private spirits , disallowed in the scriptures by the spirit of god. whereas hee yet addes , that differences and varieties in matters of government are such tender things , that they cannot be tolerated in one and the self-same church and state , without infinite inconveniences and distances , &c. i answer , 1. that differences and varieties in matters of government , are not things so tender in any degree , as the consciences of the saints ; and therefore no reason , that reason of state should be more tenderly respected , then these . better a thousand men inconvenienced in their temporalls , then one righteous soul wounded in his spiritualls ; yea , or then one sin committed to prevent all those inconveniences . vna dei gloria ( saith calvin , a great presbyterian ) praeferri meretur centum mundis . yea , and one greater then calvin ( i mean the apostle paul ) saith , ( neither saith he any thing more then what an whole christian state or nation is bound to say ) if meat offendeth my brother , i will eat no flesh whilest the world standeth , that i may not offend my brother , 1 cor. 8. 13. but , 2. whereas wee still heare of wars and rumors of wars from presbyteriall pens , of infinite inconveniences and disturbances , and turnings of all things upside down in states , as if they should never die any other death , in case any other government should be indured , but their own ; the truth is , that such predictions ( or pretences rather ) as these , are but a kind of politique agents sent forth to negotiate their cause with the ignorance and simplicity of the generality of men ; who being indifferent for matter of church-government , but of firmly-resolv'd judgements to keep themselves as far from all that which is called trouble or disturbances as possibly they can , are apt to drink in the impressions of all overtures or pretences which sound that way , as fishes drink water , and so are made proselytes of a zealous inspiration for the classique consistory . primus in orbe deos fecit timor . that mixture of ignorance and feare which is commonly found in vulgar constitutions , may easily be wrought and fashion'd by a politique hand , almost into what apprehensions , and indeavours suitable , a man desireth ; if his design in this kind exceed not the compasse and content of nature : for the darknesse of ignorance hath no communion at all with the kingdome of light ; but being in conjunction with an awakened passion of feare , it disposeth the hearts and souls of men to receive any superstitious impressions of what shape and from soever the intellectus agens , or hee that worketh upon it , shal desire . for my part , i am not able to calculate the least rational proportion or conexion between a variety or diffrence of church-government , & the distractions , or disturbances in a state ; nor can i easily beleeve , that all the presbyterian writers themselves , do truly & unfainedly fear any such effect from such a cause , though some peradventure may . for what if every congregation or parish in & about london , had a different government , or way of ordering their church-affairs , as they generally have somewhat ( more or lesse ) differing in the ordering and managing of their vestries , or parochiall civill affaires , the one being supposed as agreeable to the civill lawes of the state , as the other , and each parish respectively satisfied , and well apaid with their own government , i am not able to discerne , nor cast it in my thoughts , how the peace or safety of the civill state should suffer in the least by it . but i can very easily conceive , how a state may be very probably disturbed , ( and i can give instances of many that have been ) by an universall compulsion of all the subjects thereof , to one and the same religion ; yea , and how by the like compulsion to one and the same church-government . it is very strange to me that they that know ( and how generally it is knowne ) what variety of churches and church-government , yea , and professions of religion there are , and have for a long time been in the dominion of the states of holland , and withall , how pacate , flourishing , and free from disturbance this state hath been ; and againe , how that not onely a forme of church-government differing from that kinde of government which is more generally practised throughout the kingdome of france , but even a different religion also , have without the least occasion of inconvenience or disturbance to the state , ( yea i might say , to the great advantage and benefite of the state , ) been tolerated , yea little lesse then countenanced , and that neer the very heart , & chiefe places of this kingdom ; very strange ( i say ) to me it is , that they that cannot lightly but know these things ( besides many other instances in other states and republicks , of like consideration ) should yet pretend fears , yea certainties of i know not what inconveniences and disturbances to the state , if any more church-governments then one should take place , or bee endured in it . they that shall please to peruse page 23. of the reply of the two brethren to a. s. shall finde many scriptures , of a friendly and harmlesse consistence of severall religions ( and therefore doubtlesse of severall church-governments ) in the same state , besides some others . and lucas osiander in his epitome of the ecclesiasticall history , written by the magdeburgenses , in the 6th century , relates severall examples of successfull issues and events of such mutuall tolerations , as wee now speak of . troubles and disturbances of states , are far more like to be the fruits and consequents of rigour and hard measure , measured out unto the saints , then of favour or condescension unto them for their accommodation . they that think a state should work wisely for it self , by any hard intreaty of the servants of god , have forgotten wherefore pharoah and his great host perished together in the red sea. whereas p. 19. he taxeth me with a default , that i neither discover unto him what that way is , which i there so earnestly plead for , nor produce any one text to prove it christs own way , nor one example to warrant it , &c. my answer is , 1. i suppose , that an understanding man , as all men acknowledge mr. prynne to be , that prosecutes a way with so much violence and bitternesse , as hee doth the way there pleaded for , understandeth it all over , through and through , ( and so needeth not any further discovery of it to be made unto him ) . such a man ( doubtlesse ) will take heed above all caution , of stumbling at that stone above all other , whereat the princes of this world stumbled , and were broke to pieces , when they crucified the lord of glory , before they knew who he was , 1 cor. 2. 8. 2. i answer further , that it was no part of my design or intent in those sermons , to justifie the way so oft there mentioned , simply , or as a way of christ against all contradiction ; but only to justifie it against those common exceptions and vulgar objections there insisted upon ; and to demonstrate , that it may be christs own way , notwithstanding any thing that hath yet appeared to take away that crowne from it : and so upon this consideration , to perswade men , as they love and tender their own safety and peace , not to lay violent hands upon it , untill they should have better grounds to judge it none of christs way , then yet they had any . this being the adequate and precise tenor of my intention in that discourse , i kept my self close to it ; and so had no occasion to argue any thing ( or very little ) in a cataskenastique or positive way for it . but because i produce nothing positively to prove the way i plead for , ( or rather , against the suppression of it ) to be christs own way , mr. prynne takes the courage to assault the credit and reputation of it by four reasons or arguments , ( as hee desires to have their number thought ) though the second and fourth be but one and the same ; and the third , nothing but what hee had said before , and that unsuceessefully , ( as was argued in the 39th section of this discourse ) and the first , second , third and fourth , nothing to prophane the excellency , or pollute the beauty of that cause , against which his pen is armed . but let us answer them , so far as they have not been answered already ; only this one thing pre-observ'd , that mr. prynn's conscience , with the assistance of all his four arguments , doth not yet serve him , peremptorily or simply to condemn this way , as none of christs own way , but only to suspect it none of his , as himself expresseth himself in the last line of pag. 19. now being advanced no further in the confidence of his judgement against this way , but only to suspect it for none of christs , i trust , that remembring what cameron ( a learned presbyterian ) saith , viz. that suspicion of falsity , was ever a calamity incident to truth , he will advance no further in his opposition to it , untill his suspicion be grown up to the stature of a perfect , cleere , and certain knowledge . this only premised , let us try whether the grounds of his jealousie it self will not shake . to the first wee answer , 1. that whereas this way is here charged to be a new way , never yet heard of , in any age or church of christ ; it hath been sufficiently proved by those that have written in the defence of it ; that in point of antiquity , it hath the preheminence of its competitresse to the value of 1500 yeers , as having been that way of government , wherein the primitive churches of christ , through his gracious & wise indulgence administred unto them by his apostles in this behalf rejoyced for the space of about 200. yeers , as mr. burton in his answer to mr. prynn's two first pieces upon this subject , lately published , cleerly manifests , p. 19. and 24. a shewing moreover , how these churches in time came to degenerate in point of government , and to lose their spirituall liberties therein . 2. whereas the opposition of the generality of magistrates , ministers and people to this way , is pleaded in barre to the legitimacy and truth of it ; we answer , 1. that according to the tenor of poeticall story ; vlysses after twenty yeers absence from his house and home , was grown out of the knowledge of his friends and neighbours ; yea , penelope her self ( his wife ) knew him not at his return at first , but upon some conference and discoveries otherwise , hee became known both to the one and the other . nor should it seem strange to any , that a church-government , set up by the apostles , so many hundreth yeers since , and having for a thousand yeers and upwards been in exile , the rights , priviledges and possessions of it seised upon , and usurped by others , should not presently at the first return of it , be acknowledged by the generality of men , no , nor by the generality of her friends themselves , i mean , godly , sober , and understanding men ; whom i call her friends , because i make no question , but there lies love and friendship to her , at the root and bottome of their hearts , though there be a crust of enmity and opposition at the top , for a season . joseph will in due time , make himself known unto his brethren . 2. though numbers of those that are opposite to this way , if we compute the generality of them , be confessedly far greater , then of those that plead for her ; yet the barren begins to rejoyce , and to beare children apace ; and the desolate may in time come to have more children then she that hath an husband . john baptist had many moe disciples and followers at first , then christ himself ; yet ingenuously subscribed to the dignity of christ above himself , saying , he must increase , but i must decrease , joh. 3. 30. 3. the judgements both of magistrates and common people , concerning this way , depending chiefly ( if not solely ) upon the judgements of ministers , it is the lesse strange , that there should be found such a grand concurrence in the judgements of both against it , especially for a time . there are these twelve reasons ( among others ) why the judgements of ministers especially may , according to the course of humane affairs in other like cases , stand off at some distance form this goverment , for a season . first , their judgements have for a long time conversed familiarly with another , and that with approbation and contentment ; by means whereof there is a kinde of a pleasing sympathy or connaturalnesse growne between them ; which is such a conveniencie or accommodation , that nature will not suddenly quit or lose , nor without good consideration : no man ( saith our saviour ) that hath drunk old wine , streight way desireth new ; for he saith , the old is better , luke 5. 39. secondly , godly ministers ( more generally ) stand publiquely declared in their judgements for another government . and how hard a thing is it , even for good men ( in the philosophers phrase ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to do execution upon their own tenets and opinions , especially when they have own'd them in the sight of the world ? the casting out of his son ismael , is said to have been a thing very grievous in abrahams sight , notwithstanding he had the advantage of the expresse commandement of god upon him , to make it easie , gen. 21. 11. it is confessed , that this , ( haply with some others of the reasons following ) beares as hard against some independents in their adhesion unto , and stiff-standing by their way , as it doth against presbyterians in their resolvednesse for theirs . but this rather confirms , then any way infeebles , the argumentative authority of it for that probation , which it undertakes . thirdly , many ministers conceive , that if they shall pull out but one stone out of their building , though never so ill laid , they shall shake the foundations of the whole fabrique , and that in case themselves should begin with any one of those doctrines which they have taught , to disclaim it , the people will follow their example herein , and do the like by all the rest . whereas on the contrary , the truth is , that to separate the vile from the precious , is to raise the honour and esteem of that which is precious ; and the cancelling of some things , which a man hath taught , as erroneous , is an high confirmation of all the rest ; according to that schoole maxime , exceptio firmat regulam in non exceptis . fourthly , many by being declaredly ingag'd for such or such an opinion , have fared the better for it , either in their credits and reputations , or otherwise ; yea , and haply at unawares , have gained deep interest and honour with persons of name and prime respects in the world , by means of a co-ingagement in the same opinion with them . now as our saviour saith , a there is no man that shall doe a miracle in my name , that can lightly speake evill of me ; no more will men easily be brought to make refuse or untruth of any such opinion , which hath been , and still continues , such a benefactresse unto them . ministers may truly say in such cases , beneficium accepi , libertatem vendidi : i. by receiving a benefit , i have sold my liberty . fifthly , many are not able to be baptized with the baptisme wherewith paul was baptized , act. 17. 18. where he was charged to bee a setter forth of new gods : they are not able to beare the reproach of being teachers of new doctrines ; of being charged with whimzies and independent crotchets a , of trading in apes avd peacocks b , &c. and so resolve to hold on in such a way , wherein though they may meet with some reproofes , yet they are sure of farre more with them , then they can feare being against them . sixthly , some think it a point of humility to build upon other mens foundations , and feare they should pollute the memories and honour of calvin , beza , and other famous lights in the church of god , if they should recede from their principles in the least . seventhly , some have laesum principium , a maimed principle of seeing any thing that is new , except they see it first , cannot stoop so low , as to carry any mans honor after him , ( especially that converseth upon the earth with him : pascitur in vivis livor : ) nor yet so farre disparage their own parts and abilities , as to judge any thing which is of a new discovery , to be truth , except they bee some wayes or other interessed in the discovery of it . ingenio qui vult cedere , rarus erit . there is a notion ( unsound as it seemes to me ) of a kind of knowledge supposed to be in god , a called scientia media , lately started amongst the schoolmen : and how doe the great masters of that learning , contend amongst themselves for the primacie of that invention ? fonseca stands up , and tells the world , b that he was the first that observed it amongst his conimbrians . nay rather ( saith molina ) i am he that first discovered it amongst my eborans . in comes lessius from amongst his lovanians , and takes away this crown from them both , and sets it upon his own brain . eighthly , some are of opinion , that matters of truth in point of church-government , are neither too great nor too good , to bee sacrificed upon the service of peace ; though luthers saying was , that unus apex verbi , major est coelo & terra : i. the least tittle , or poynt of the word of god , is greater then heaven , and earth . ninthly , some are more addicted to authors then arguments , for the furnishing of their judgements , and regulating their consciences in matters of religion : and then it is no marvell if these make silver and gold of the presbyteriall , and hey and stubble of the congregationall way ; though it bee true also on the other hand , that in very many authors , and those of classique authority , both ancient and modern , there are manifesta rotae vestigia cernendi , manifest prints and footsteps of this way a . tenthly , the congregationall way puts ministers upon a more immediate dependence upon god and his providence for matter of maintenance and outward accommodation : and how few are there but had rather see , then beleeve ? have the knowne lawes of a state , then the unknowne purposes and decrees of heaven , the vouchers of their livelihood and supports to such a proportion or degree ? eleventhly , ( some it's like ) are afraid lest the wrath and discontent of the generality of the people of the land , should evince the error and untruth of the congregationall way , by offering violence to those that shall hold it forth in practice ; and so chuse rather to build upon the peoples generall acceptation of the presbyterian way ( which they cannot much question ) as an unquestionable demonstration of the truth and goodnesse thereof . twelfthly ( and lastly ) others ( probably ) are jealous , and foresee , that they shall not be able to give that quarter of contentment to many great persons , and men in place of authority , in the congregationall way , which they know they may in the presbyterian . yea , they cannot lightly but foresee , that in the practice of the congregationall way , they shall ( in all likelihood and without the gracious hand of god preventing ) contract the odium and ill will of many great ones , who under god have power to grind their faces , and break their bones . and who will be willing to study and take pains , and be earnest with god in prayer night and day , for the conviction of such a truth , which being discovered , will either expose a man to all that danger of hardship and misery in the world , which we speak of , or else doe him a worse displeasure then so , by tormenting his conscience , in case he shall refuse to be so exposed ? these with many other like reasons there are , why ministers ( rather then others ) may more generally incline to fall in rather with the presbyterian , then the congregationall way ( and consequently why magistrates and people , who see much by their eyes , should fall in also ) and yet such a constellation no signe from heaven , but onely from the earth , ( the element made to be trampled under foot ) of the truth & righteousnes of that way . but that i may not be mistaken , nor leave the least touch or tast of offence in the mind of any man , by occasion of the reasons insisted upon , i solemnly professe , as in the presence of god , that i intend no ill reflexion upon any of my brethren in the ministery , who are contrary minded to me in point of church-government , as such in any of them ; nor to infinuate as if they , either divisim or conjunctim , were swayed in their judgements by any of the said motives in the present controversie : but to demonstrate against my antagonist , that such tentations are very incident to the nature of man , yea , even when it is under the best accomplishments of nature , industry & grace it self : and consequently , that his argument drawne , a multitudine taliter sentientium , is of little force . i freely acknowledge , that ministers very possibly may have ( yea i verily beleeve that many have ) the presbyterian way in their hearts , who never consulted with any of those oracles about the bringing of it in thither : and that many of this judgement are as candid , free , unspotted , and untouched by any of those respects , in their way , as many who imbrace the congregationall way , are in theirs . yet 4. i must answer this one thing further to my repliers argument , that the testimony of a few godly persons , having little or nothing of this world to accommodate their judgements , but a thousand things to distance and distaste them , is in reasonablenesse and fairnesse of construction , of more consideration for the averment of a truth , then the judgement of many who have the sunne , moone , and twelve starres to give light unto them , i mean all or most of this worlds endowments to confirme them . 5. ( and lastly ) the known case happening at the councel of nice between paphnutius and the rest of the learned members thereof , with that of athanasius opposing ( in a manner ) the whose christian world now turned arrian , with some others of like consideration that might be added , have broke the heart of that topique place , quod pluribus videtur , &c. and made it void and invalid for ever . to his second argument , which ( it seemes ) strengthens the hand of his great jealousie against the congregationall cause , i answer . first , i am unduly and untruly charged , to acknowledge the congregationall government set up by a few private men , against the authority and commands of the parliament , &c. i no where mention any authority or command of parliament declared against this way ; neither indeed doe i know any to this houre . nor doe i either hope or feare to live to that day , wherein private men may not both feare god , and obey jesus christ , without offending against the authority and commands of parliament . but this charge being hard to find in my discourse , and he that affirmes it , being desirous to make it as hard to answer or disprove , he takes field-room enough for his reference , and in his margine bids us ( in effect ) looke from page 30. to 52. telling us , that if we look narrowly enough , wee shall find it somewhere within that circuit , though himselfe ( it seems ) knowes not well where . 2. nor do i any where , either tacitly or vocally acknowledge that this way , not onely denies , but oppugnes the temporall magistrates , parliaments , synods directions or coercive power in ecclesiasticall affairs . if any man of this way doth denie , much more if hee oppugneth either the one or the other , it is not necessary that he should doe either , as a son of this way , nor by any influence of those grounds and principles upon which this way is built . but i verily beleeve , that mr. prynne never knew any man of this way , that ever denied , much lesse oppugned any directions whether from parliaments or synods , ( or from farre meaner hands then either of these ) unlesse they saw or apprehended them contrary to the mind and will of god in the scriptures ; in which case i have that christian and honourable opinion of the authour of this charge , that he would deny them himselfe . what he meanes by the word oppugning , in such an emphaticall opposition to a denying , is none of my understanding . it he meanes onely a pleading or an arguing in oppositum , i conceive it no wayes opposite unto , but of a just and necessary concurrence with a deniall . for he that denies any thing affirmed by another , is bound to , ( or at least very lawfully may ) give a reason of that his deniall ; which must needs be an oppugning ( in this sense ) of the others assertion . if by oppugning , he means , an opposing or resisting by force , the charge is a most unworthy and unchristian slander . i no where give the least intimation that the way i plead for in any of her principles or maximes , thus oppugneth either parliaments or synods , either in their directions , or in the exercise of any coercive power . as for a coercive power in synods , i think mr. prynnes way denies , if not oppugns , it , as well as mine . and to gratifie the civill magistrate with such a power as this , in matters of religion , denying him withall any directive power for the ordering and government of it ( which is the bountie of the presbyterian way to the civill magistrate a ) is no such eminency of desert at his hand , above what the congregationall way doth willingly and chearfully leave unto him . the understanding and reason of a man , is certainly better then the strength of an elephant , or a lyon. 3. i absolutely deny , that mr. prynne hath either largely , or contractedly proved , either by many texts , or any texts , either in his independencie examined , or in any other of his writings whatsoever , whether examined or unexamined the deniall of any such coercive power , either in parliaments or synods , to be either directly or indirectly contrary to the scriptures , which either the congregationall way , or any patron or friend of this way , that i know of , have denied , or doe deny unto either . and whereas his page boasts of his large proofe hereof by many texts , and by this finger ( o ) points us to his margent , as if that would justifie and make good this boasting ; the honest margent , as conscious to the vanitie thereof , refuseth to say any thing at all , jot or tittle , to it . 4. whereas he pleads , that paul himself even in matters of religion pleaded his cause before festus , felix , and king agrippa , all this is granted in point of truth , but absolutely denied in point of pertinencie to his purpose . if independents be brought before kings and rulers for christs sake , or for their conscience sake , it is their wisest course ( and that which well becomes them , yea , and that which they would doe , if so brought ) to plead their cause before them as well as they can , as paul did before festus , &c. but though paul was a chosen vessell of christ to carry his name before kings a , yet they were chosen vessels of satan , who compell'd or brought him before kings to answer for his life , because he preach'd and practis'd the doctrine of christ , notwithstanding he alwayes carried the name of christ with him , whensoever he was brought before them . nor doth his pleading his cause before festus , &c. any whit more prove that festus had a lawfull coercive power in matters of religion , then james his being slaine by herods sword , or christs being crucified by pilates power , prove that civill magistrates have a lawfull power to sentence the faithfullest and most innocent men unto death . as for pauls appeale unto caesar , ( an heathen emperour ) can we blame him for it , when as he hop'd to find more equall and faire proceedings before him , then at the judicatories of inferior judges ? if mr. prynne will accept or interpret , either the pleading of our cause before a civill magistracy when we are brought before it , or an appealing from an inferior civill judicatory when we feele or feare injustice , to a superior , or an acknowledgement of a lawfull power in the civill magistrate to restraine the violence and unjust proceedings and practises of men against us ; if ( i say ) he will interpret any , or all these , to be an acknowledgement of a coercive power in the civill magistrate , in ecclesiasticall affaires , there is an end of this strife between us ; we will all readily subscribe , that such a coercive power as this in matters of religion and ecclesiasticall affaires , is the undoubted priviledge of the civill magistrate , and of right belongs unto him . 5. wee freely likewise subscribe unto those injunctions of the apostle , where he injoyns all christians to pray , even for heathen kings , magistrates , and to submit to all their lawfull commands for conscience sake : yea , and are heartily sorry that any such commands should at any time proceed from kings , magistrates , whether heathen or christian , unto which we cannot submit with a good conscience , and for conscience sake ; but are necessitated even for conscience sake to decline them . onely we question , whether kings , magistrates , heathen or christian , have any power from god , to punish good and godly men , for declining such commands of theirs for conscience sake , which they cannot for conscience sake submit unto . 6. for those princes and magistrates who were long sence predicted to become nursing fathers to the church under the gospel , we wish them all christian care , tendernesse , and compassion , according to the nature and tenor of this so honourable a service and imployment , so long sence by prophecie from god assign'd and recommended unto them . but whether it be proper for those , that desire to be look'd upon as nursing fathers of the church , to sacrifice the peace and comfort of one part of the children of the church upon the service of the wills or humors of another part of them , i leave to nursing mothers , who have twins of their womb hanging upon their breasts , to judge and determine . 7. and lastly , for the good and wholesome laws enacted by cyrus , artaxerxes , darius , &c. for the worship of god , &c. we gave ( i trust ) a good and wholesome answer in the former part of this discourse , published some weeks since . wee freely grant a power , yea , and more then a power , a necessitie by way of dutie , in kings , magistrates , to further the honour and service of the true god , and his people in the worship of him . it is onely a power of discouraging his people , of interrupting and hindring their peace and comfort in the worship and service of the true god , which we conceive incompetible unto magistracie , as any gift or donation setled upon it by god. his third argument or ground of jealousie against the way of his great contestation , is , that it appears to be a way that will breed infinite confusions , disorders , by confounding the bounds of parishes , &c. we answer 1. that physicians seldome complain of sickly times ; nor millars of those that bring griest to their mills . the old saying was , de morbo gaudet medicus . it is strange to me that mr. prynne should thus prevaricate with his profession . but it may be this argument is figurative , and cat-antiphrasticall : and so , by confusions , disorders , &c. he means , peace , unitie and concord amongst men , whereby confusions , disorders , and consequently suits at law , will be prevented and cut off . and the truth is that such peace , unitie , and concord amongst men , whereby such unchristian mischiefes and miseries as these , may in ordinary way of providence be prevented , is the genuine and naturall product of this way , and a fruit that is daily gathered from it by many . 2. whereas he chargeth this way , with confounding the bounds of parishes , and in his margent cites p. 38. to 40. of my two sermons , for the justification of this charge ; the truth is , that both charge and justification may go together , and serve in the forlorne hope , having neither reason nor truth to second either . for 1. the way he speaks of , intermeddles not with , offers no violence to the bounds of parishes onely it thinks it equall that the bounds of parishes should not offer violence , or be houses of bondage unto the consciences of the saints , nor be as barres of iron against them in the way of their comfort , and spirituall edification . 2. whereas i am sub-pena'd for a witnesse against this way , touching the crime objected , i meane of trespassing upon the bounds of parishes . may answer is , that the printed copie of those sermons of mine , which i have , hath ne gry quidem , either in pag. 38 , 39 , or 40. of any such matter : nor hath it any where else , any page , passage , sentence , line , word , syllable , letter , point , or tittle , amounting to the import of such a charge . 3. whereas his pen spits this black reproach in the face of independencie , that it is a government inconsistent with royaltie and the civill government ; my answer is , that look in what degree this accusation and charge would be weighty and sore , in case it could be prov'd ; in the same degree it is light and contemptible , through a deficiencie of all , and all manner of proofe , or colour of proofe , whatsoever . the roman empire lost nothing of her beautie , strength , or interest , by the churches of christ practising this government in severall places within the bounds and territories of it . if it sustained losse in any of these , by occasion of this government , it was not because of their toleration of , but their opposition to it . 4. nor is this charge , that it giveth way to every sect to choose ministers , erect churches of their owne without controule , of any better commendation in point of truth , then the former . for it giveth way to no sect whatsoever without controule ; it reproves , oppugns , censures , and condemns sects and sectaries of all sorts ; so far is it from granting allowance to them , to choose ministers , and erect churches , without controule . indeed it knows no authoritie or commission which it hath from god , to countenance the controulement of the civill sword against such persons , who in the simplicitie ( not convicted obstinacy ) of their hearts , are misled in matters of religion : it trembles to make misprisions in things of that difficult , high , and rare attainment , as the acknowledgement of supernaturall truth is in matters of religion , and the things of god , to be matter either of confiscation of goods , imprisonment , banishment , death , unto men : though it denies not a power of restraint from opposing the received faith , with publick disturbance and offence . 5. whereas in answer to somewhat argued by me to make the innocency of independencie touching matter of divisions , as cleare as the noone day , he repones thus ; that those who in point of conscience cannot communicate or agree together in one church , will never questiolesse accord well together in one familie , bed , parish , kingdome , as experience manifests ; i answer , 1. that experience manifests the quite contrary . how many ministers of the presbyterian judgement are there in the kingdome , yea , in and about the citie , that hold communion in all deare and christian respects , and terms of love and friendship , with many called independent , and these againe with them ? the difference in judgement between them in point of church-government , in some rather increasing , then diminishing or dissolving their familiaritie and acquaintance . how oft doth mr. edwards himself in his antapologie , acknowledge his apologists to be dearly and deeply interessed in the love and care of many of his judgement a ? yea , he commends his own love and affections towards them , once and twice and the third time also b . how many families are there in and about the citie , wherein the respective members injoy themselves together with much christian sweetnesse and peace , notwithstanding relations to severall pastors & churches among them ? i had it from a person worthy credit in a greater matter , that a friend of his ( a man also very well knowne to my self , and knowne for a man both of honesty and understanding ) related to him ; how that having but foure persons in his familie , ( himself being one of the foure ) and every of these constantly repairing to a different congregation and ministery , yet liv'd very peaceably , comfortably , and contentedly together in the same house . yea , and that he moreover added ; that except he should grant this libertie to the rest respectively , he could not expect that good accord and agreement with them and between them in his family , which now he found . yea , 2. experience manifests yet more then this ; viz. that not onely persons dissenting in point of church-government , being otherwise united in the profession of the same pure , orthodox and undefiled religion ; but that persons dissenting in the very substantialls of their respective religions , doe lovingly and peaceably combine and live together , not onely in the same state or kingdome , but even in the same citie , yea , in the same street or neighbour-hood ; and are mutually helpfull and serviceable one to another in all matters of civill courtesie , often meet , eat and drink together ; yea , and are all of one heart and of one mind , in promoting and maintaining the peace and safety of the state where they live . i have received every whit as much as this in report from persons of good esteem and worth , who have been ey-witnesses and diligent observers of such things , both in the low-countries and in france . yea , 3. ( that which is yet more then all this ) the scripture it self implies , that persons , not onely distanced in their judgements about church-government , but about the god-head of christ , and truth of the true and christian religion , may not onely accord and agree together in one and the same state , as abraham and his people did with the amorites , gen. 14. 13. with the philistims at gerar , gen. 20. 1. with the aegyptians , gen. 12. 10. &c. christians with pagan idolaters , 1 cor. 10. 27. but in the one and the same familie , yea , and hed also , 1 cor. 7. 12 , 13. 1. pet. 3. 1. &c. 4. and lastly , not onely experience , but even reason it self manifests , that those who cannot in point of conscience communicate and agree together in one church , may yet very well accord together , in one familie , bed , parish , kingdome : yea , evident it is , that they , who cannot in point of conscience agree together in one church , cannot possibly ( or lightly at least ) but agree together in familie , parish , bed , kingdome . for if it be conscience that sets them at a distance in matter of church-government , it must needs unite them in the performance of all such duties , which are cleerly and manifestly such . he that out of conscience abstains from any practise , as not being satisfied in his judgement touching the lawfulnesse thereof ; cannot but be ready and willing to practise every such dutie , of the necessitie where of he stands convinced , either by the light of nature , or by the word of god ; conscience being unpartiall between the negative and the affirmative , and equally respecting its own comfort and peace in both . now it is no wayes probable , ( if possible ) that such as are truly conscientious in point of church-government , should be ignorant of such duties required of them by god in the foure mentioned relations , family , parish , bed , kingdome , the practise and performance whereof will strongly and sweetly unite and accord them in the said relations , respectively . all these things considered , i cannot wonder a little , that the gentleman , who makes so many questions , should make that questionlesse in the negative , which is so palpably plain and questionlesse in the affirmative . but 6. whereas i onely argue and demonstrate , that the repairing of persons out of severall parishes to one and the same ministery or pastor , needs be no more trouble or disturbance , then the like repair of persons of the respective companies in london , to one and the same hall ; he represents this demonstration of mine , as if i thereby intended to prove or justifie the congregationall government simply , and accordingly insists upon 3 differences between the one and the other . i know nothing but that he might easily have found out not onely 3 , but 23 differences , and have argued them all with as much pertinencie to his purpose , as he hath done the three . for we do not urge the analogie of the government of companies of corporations in all the relations or appurtenances belonging to it , as any ground or proof of the congregationall government ; we are better provided in this kind , then so : we onely urge the particular mentioned , to accommodate and heal the pretended offensivenesse in the like , in this government . notwithstanding let us briefly see what advantage he hath gotten against the independent way , by his 3 great differences found between severall trades and hals in one citie , parish , kingdom , and severall forms of church-government . as to the first we answer . 1. that it is not so without dispute , as he makes it , whether all trades , societies , bold one another lawfull , usefull , necessarie , agreeable to the laws of god , and the realme . i know both some trades , yea and some societies too in london , much questioned upon all , or most of these particulars . but passe we this . whereas he infers upon it , that so they breed no contrarietie of opinions or disaffections , &c. we answer . 2. that certainly experience doth not manifest this contentions , differences , disaffections , yea and law-suits sometimes betweene trades and trades , societies and societies , are known occurrences in and about the citie . whereas he addes : that each different church deems the other unlawfull , so as they cannot with safe conscience joyn or communicate together , and thereupon sever one from another ; we answer . 3. that according to mr. prynnes notion of church-government , it is not necessarie that each different church should judge the other unlawfull , &c. because he supposeth , that the scripture is so indulgent in this behalf , as to leave roome enough for variety of forms of this government . so that if he will but give others leave to be of his judgement , this reasoning of his fals to the ground . but fourthly ( and lastly ) though each different church do deem the other unlawfull , and so cannot with safe conscience communicate together in church-ship ; yet this hinders not , but that they may judge and think as well one of anothers persons ( and consequently love and affect one another , and combine together as affectionately , ) as persons of severall trades and societies do ; who have no more communion together in their respective trades , then different churches have in their respective churches ; yea , there is far better ground ( as hath been partly touched already ) why different churches , though they deemeach other unlawfull , should yet think better of , yea and love the respective members each of other , then there is , that persons of severall trades , or members of severall civill societies , should do either the one or the other among themselves . to his second difference , i answer , 1. that experience manifests the contrary to what he here affirms , viz. that the subordination or subjection of severall trades , societies , to the whole corporation , parliament , or supreame magistrate , doth not keep them all in peace and writie . what contentiones , quarrels , emulations , suits amongst them from day to day , any such subordination or subjection notwithstanding ? 2. whereas by way of opposition he addes , that independent churches will be regulated , obliged onely by their own peculiar edicts , which must needs occasion infinite schismes and disorders ; we answer . 1. we wish that by way of commendation and praise in many cases , to parliaments , temporall magistrates , and synods , which is here cast upon independent churches by way of imputation and charge , i mean regulation and obligement by their own peculiar edicts . but 2. whereas the charge is thus laid against these churches , that they will be regulated , obliged onely by their own peculiar edicts ; the truth is , that they are every whit as willing to be regulated , obliged , by the edicts of any other , as by their own , alwayes provided that they be conform to the word , and this conformitie sufficiently proved and made known unto them . they put no difference at all between the mind of christ presented unto them by others or discovered and found out by themselves . yea and that subordination and subjection which they all professe and own to the written word of god , is a farre more effectuall and hopefull means , to keep them all in peace and unitie , then that subordination mentioned by mr. prynne , is to keep all trades and societies in the same precious posture . onely in this one thing these poore independent churches desire parliaments and magistrates and synods to be mercifull unto them , that they cannot write any of them , infallible , nor yet subscribe unto any their injunctions or decisions in matters of faith , or which concern the worship and service of god , without retaining the scriptures for their counsell , and advising with them what to do therein . to his third and last difference also , we answer . 1. that he saith very well , in point of truth , when he saith , that christians , as christians , are all of one and the self same society and profession , as those of one trade and calling are . but this truth as yet , is not at all conscious to his intention or purpose . therefore he addes : therefore they should all have but one church and government , as these trades have . nor doth this , if granted , make any whit more for the presbyterian cause , then for the independent : because it doth not follow ; christians , as christians , ought all to have one and the same church and government : therefore this church and government ought to be presbyterian . take a parallel : simeon and levi ought to have been brethren : therefore they ought to have been brethren in iniquitie . take another : a●ania● and sapphira , being man and wife , ought to have agreed together : therefore they ought to have agreed together to tempt the spirit of the lord. but 2. if by his one church , he means , one and the same catholique , mysticall , and invisible church ; we answer , that christians , as christians , have all one and the same church ; in this sense , they are all members of this one church . but if he means , one and the same ministeriall and visible church , we answer , by demanding , how can this thing be ? we have heard indeed of some oecumenicall councels ; but of oecumenicall visible churches , wherein all christians should be comprehended as members , i beleeve there hath been oecumenicall silence unto this day . 3. whereas he goeth about to set the comparison ( of his own making ) upright , by stating it thus : if some of one fraternitie in london ( suppose merchant-t tylors , sadlers , &c. ) should fall out among themselves , and one would have one form of government , another another , and thereupon divide themselves into severall conventicles and pety meetings in corners , not at their common hall , and one chuse one government or master , another another , and so sever the company , and continue independent , this ( no doubt ) would prove an apparent schisme and seminary of infinite divisions , to the distraction , destruction of the whole company and fraternitie ; and then addes , this is the true state of your independencie : we answer , that the comparison thus stated holds no proportion or correspondence with the state of independencie . for , 1. that number of christians which pleads for independencie ( so called ) is not the whole socieitie of christians ( nor indeed any confiderable part thereof , in respect of number ) as that fraternitie of merchant-tayloes or sadlers the comparison speaks of , is therein supposed to be the whole societie of such a company . therefore to set mr. prynnes comparison upright , and make it agree with the state of independencie , in this particular , it must be stated thus ; suppose two or three members of a numerous and vast companie , consisting ( it may be ) of ten or twenty thousand persons , should differ from the rest of the societie in some things about their government , and hereupon should withdraw themselvs from that society , and seek incorporation elsewhere ; would such a dissent or withdrawing of so few from amongst so many , any waies threaten the distraction , much lesse the destruction of the whole company ? 2. suppose a considerable part of a company , should out of a conscientious dislike of the carriage of things in the government of the body withdraw themselves , and refuse subjection to this government so ordered and administred ; though in probabilitie this act of theirs may occasion some distraction or disturbance in the rest of the body for a season ; yet supposing it done upon substantiall and due grounds , it may be so farre bringing destruction to this body , that very possibly it may occasion the reformation and amendment of those things that were unjust in this government , ( and consequently destructive to the bodie ) and so become a means of the preservation of it from destruction . and this is the true state of our independencie . 3. in case the fraternity of merchant-taylors in london should fall out amongst themselves , and one would have one form of government , and another another , and thereupon divide themselves , &c. what ever inconvenience should , or might hereupon ensue to the company , yet still it was determined by equall and prudent judges , who , or which partie gave the chief occasion of these distractions and rents ; there is no reason why any one partie should fall foule upon all the rest , and give an extrajudiciall sentence for themselves . for any thing that god hath yet determined to the contrary , the independent partie of christians in the kingdom , may be as innocent ( yea more innocent ) of the breaches and distractions amongst us in point of church government , them the presbyterian . they that call and plead for that government which is held forth in the scriptures , calling and pleading for it in a regular , meek and christian manner , are those that are innocent ; and those that call and plead for any other , or indeed for any in a violent , preposterous , and unchristian manner , ( light the stroke where it will ) are those that are guiltie . i confesse that in one respect , and that of very great consequence , i could really wish that the beam were in the eye of independencie , and the moat in the eye of presbyterie ; because in this case it would ( i conceive ) be the sooner and the more easily plucked out . for as austin said long since : vitiun quod inebriat multitudinem , examinis amittit veritatem . a sin or error that hath taken the heads and hearts of a multitude , is hardly curable a an error in a few , is but as smoke , it may be approach'd unto , handled , and dealt with , without danger : but in many it becomes a flame of fire ; and he that attempts the quenching of it , had need purifie himself , as men at sea do , when they see the breakings of leviathan , and look for nothing but present death . job . 41. 25. 4. in case any parcell or lesse number of the company of merchant-taylors in london , could not with a good conscience continue their union and incorporation with the societie , apprehending some things sinfull amongst them , of the sinfulnesse whereof they conceive an unavoidable necessitie that themselves must be partakers , whilest they continue their relation to the company , the rest of the company all this while resenting no evill in the things stumbled at by those other , and so are able to keep on their way without scruple ; in this case it is so farre from being a thing destructive to this company , that the partie so scrupul'd , should withdraw , that it is the best accommodation , thing standing as they do , whereof they are capable ; it being certain that no company or societie whatsoever but suffers losse and disadvantage by union and communion with such members , who walk with gainsaying judgements , and polluted consciences with them . and this also is the true state of independencie . the great communitie and societie of christians in the kingdom , suffer farre lesse by the independents withdrawing of themselves from the presbyterian government , their judgements in this point standing as they do , then they would by their joyning with them therein . their joyning with them under the reclamation of their judgements and conscieaces , would but disaccommodate both parties ; whereas their refusall in this kind , convenienceth both ; and so hath the true character of a legitimate contract or bargain between man and man , which still ought to be so conditioned , that both parties may be bettered in their conditions by it . therefore mr. prynne hath not set the comparison upright to the point in hand . 5. and lastly , there is no arguing in divinitie , either from conveniences or inconveniences , from disturbances or from peace , from life or from death , against the necessitie of avoiding sin , and keeping a good and a cleere conscience towards god. therefore supposing that the company of merchant-taylors in london , would by such fractions and divisions amongst the members thereof , as are presented in mr. prynnes comparison , be in danger of ruine and dissolution ; yet better were it that this ruine & dissolution should come upon it , then that god should be dishonoured by the least sin , or the meanest soule indangered , for the presevation of it a . in like manner , it is more agreeable to the mind of god , and to all principles of christianitie , that even the greatest numbers and multitudes of christians should rather suffer , though very deep , in their externall conveniences , then that the least sin should be committed by the meanest of them , for their accommodation . and this likewise is the true state of things between our independency , and mr. prynnes presbyterie . many other particulars there are , wherein it might be made further to appeare , how ill his comparison comports with the case and state of independencie : but enough ( as the proverb saith ) is as good as a feast . to what he subjoyns concerning my present case in my own parish , miserably divided , disordered by my independent way , &c. i have answered in part in my innocencies triumph . i here adde 1. that my parish is no otherwise divided , disordered , by my independent way , then the world commonly is by the gospel , when it cometh in power amongst the inhabitants thereof . think not ( saith our saviour ) that i am come to send peace on earth : i came not to send peace , but a sword . for i am come to set a man at variance against his father , and the daughter against the another , and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-low : and a mans foes shall be they of his owne houshold , mat. 10. 34 , 35 , 36. 2. it was not my independent way , ( as mr. prynne affirmeth ) but the opposition to it , that caused those divisions , disorders , ( if any such be ) in my parish : if the partie which now opposeth , had been willing , either to have complied with him whom they acknowledged for their pastor , and the rest of their brethren , who submitted themselves unto him in this way ; or else patiently to have waited upon god , untill he should please to reveale the goodnesse of the way unto them , in case they saw no sufficient ground at the present , for their submission in this kind ( as many of the best of them have done hitherto : ) there had been no place for any division or disorder amongst them . and whether it be not more fitting , for a people to follow their pastor , giving them substantiall grounds and reasons for that way wherein he desires to lead them ; then for a pastor to follow his people in such a way , whereof they neither give , nor ( i verily beleeve ) can give , any account like men , i leave to mr. prynne , and all unpartiall judges , to determine . 3. ( and lastly ) nothing is more regular , or of more constant observation in all ages , then for troubles , commotions , and disturbances , to attend for a while , any considerable mutation or change , especially , for the better , either made , or attempted to be made , in any state or societie of men whatsoever . calvin in his preface before his institutions , dedicated to the king of france , complains a of the indirect and unworthy dealings of his adversaries , who charged the preaching of the doctrine of the gospel , with being the cause of i know not what troubles , tumults , and contentions ; whereas such things as these , should have been charged upon the militia or agents of the devill . and then addes this memorable saying : est hic divini verbi quidam quasi genius , ut nunquam emergat , quieto ac dormiente satana : it is ( as it were ) the lot and destinie of the word of god , never to find satan in a good mood , or asleep , when it comes abroad into the world : in the following words , making this a most certaine and faithfull mark or signe , whereby it is discern'd from false doctrines , which ( saith he ) soone bewray themselves by this , that the world applauds them in the hearing , and gives them intertainment in a posture of fairnesse , favour , and peace . what storms , tempests , whirle-winds of troubles , tumults , commotions , did satan and his auxiliaries raise in all places and parts in the world b , wheresoever luthers doctrine and reformation did but touch , to render them the hatred and indignation of the world ? yea , and luther himself doubted not to raise it to a generall maxime or observation , that godly men must beare the name & title of men that are seditious , schismaticall , and authors of infinite evills and troubles in the world . c that great and blessed alteration and change that god made in the state of religion , and things of his worship , by the sending of jesus christ into the world , and the preaching of the gospel , is called the shaking of the heavens and the earth d , because of the great concussions , troubles , distractions , rents , and divisions , in the great concussions , troubles , distractions , rents , and divisions , in the world , which did ( and doe yet daily ) accompany them , by reason of the pride , ignorance , and unbeliefe of those which oppose either the one or the other . and as the doctrine of the gospel in the generall , never comes amongst any people in excellencie and power , but that it smites the foundations of that unitie and peace wherein it finds them , makes breaches upon them , renting one part of them from another , upon which discontents and disorders follow like the waves of the sea ; in like manner , every considerable piece or branch of the gospel , in the first discovery and breaking out of it , even in such places , and among such persons , where and amongst whom the doctrine of the gospel in the generall hath been of a long time professed , by reason of the strangenesse of it , and that contrarietie and crossenesse which it beares to the judgements and wills of many , must needs be offensive and distastefull unto them , and so occasion distractions , disorders , discontents . so that mr. prynne by representing my parish as divided , disordered by my independent way , hath rather given testimony to the truth and evangelicalnesse of it , then brought any argument to disprove either . and to say ( as he doth a few lines after ) that he needs no other evidence to prove it a schismaticall by-path , and so no way of christ , then the schismes and discords which it hath raised in other parishes , is just such a saying and resolution , as that of the high priest against our saviour , when he rent his cloaths , and said , he hath spoken blasphemie : what further need have we of witnesses * ? the blasphemie of christ , and the guiltinesse of independencie touching the matter of division and disorder , are sins much of the same order and calculation . to his fourth and last reason , which renders him a man of jealousie against the way of independencie , and prevailes with him so farre , that he cannot ( as he saith ) think it a way of christ ; wee answer . 1. that this way is no pioner or underminer of parliamentarie authoritie : nor hath mr. prynne found it , nor ever shall find it such : the principles of this way being none other then what are laid in the scriptures , unpossible it is , that it should destroy , or pull downe any thing , which they build up . therefore if mr. prynne hath ought in this kind against any of the sons of this way , let him implead these in a lawfull triall , and spare not ; but if for their sakes he will needs blaspheme the way , he will open a dore of example very effectuall for those that are opposite to his way of presbyterie , to heap shame , infamie and reproach upon the head thereof without end ; ( yea , and for those also that are enemies to christian religion , to render that as hatefull , wicked , vile in the eyes of men , as themselves can desire it should be esteemed ) . if all the errors and misprisions found in the writings of presbyteriall men , should be charged upon the way of presbyterie , as the authoresse and foundresse of them , she would appeare ten times more erroneous and deformed , then her independent adversaries are yet willing to judge or conceive her to be . 2. for the sons or patrons of this way ( as mr. prynne pleaseth to term them ) i verily beleeve , that there is none of them all , but are willing , ready and chearfull to invest parliaments with as full , high , and compleat a power and authoritie , as are by any , by all the rules and principles , either of reason , or religion , competible unto men . if mr. prynne , or any other of the presbyterian way , conceive that in times of parliaments , when they apprehend them like to be for them , they may and ought to say , that gods are come down to us in the likenesse of men * ; we confesse , that we cannot ( our reason , our religion will not beare it at our hands ) subscribe any such apotheosie . but let him and his , first survey the territories , patrimonie , and heritance of heaven , the royalties and prerogative of the most high god , and of the lord jesus christ , blessed for ever , and set them out by the line and rule either of reason , or religion ; and look what power , authoritie , jurisdiction soever , shall be found situate , lying and being without the compasse of this line , no waies enterfeering with those that are within , wee all unanimously , universally professe , that incunctanter , and with both our hands we will cast and heap it upon the parliament , asking no further question for conscience sake . therefore whereas he challengeth this way , for devesting parliaments of all manner of jurisdiction in matters of religion and church-government ; we answer , 3. that neither this way , nor the patrons of it , devest them of any , or any manner of authoritie in what matters soever , unto which mr. prynne , or any other master of the presbyterian way , is able , salvo jure coeli , to entitle them . for jurisdiction in matters of religion and church-government , we willingly give unto them the same line , measure , and proportion herein to the full , which himself asserteth unto them from the examples of those kings and princes , cyrus , artaxerxes , darius , &c. ( which he insists upon p. 20. ) who ( as he here said ) enacted good and wholsome lawes , for the worship , honour and service of the true god. let him instance particularly in any such law , or lawes , enacted by any of them : and ( doubtlesse ) none of us will denie the parliament a power of enacting ( exceptis excipiendis ) the like . but if mr. prynnes intent be to make precedent of whatsoever was enacted or done by any , or all of these heathen kings , princes , and states , to warrant a lawfulnesse of power in the parliament of enacting or doing the same , we conceive that he neither hath , nor knows where to have any thing to justifie such an intent . i trust that that law enacted by nebuchadnezzar and his nobles , dan. 3. 6. that whosoever falleth not downe and worshippeth , shall the same houre be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace , shall not be drawne by him into precedent , for the vindication of a parliamentary jurisdiction in matters of religion and church-government . 4. whereas to make good his last charge against the way so often smitten by his pen , he referres to the passage of the two independent brethren recited p. 3. of his independencie examined , adding ( after a parenthesis of much untruth , there being many that have represented the way he speaks of in her native colours and lineaments a ) that i rather aggravate , then extenuate the guiltie of the said passage , by my explanation , which he there recites ; i answer , 1. that for matter of guilt , the passage referred unto , standeth as yet , cleare , innocent , and untouch'd , as concerning any thing in way of demerit , that hath been prov'd against it . 2. as concerning the explanation , that also keeps its standing , and that upon holy ground , notwithstanding all that mr. prynne hath done , or attempted to doe , for the removall of it ; — manet illa , suóque est robore tuta . yea , the truth is , that in all his contra-remonstrance , he hath not so much as once touch'd or mentioned that which is the maine base or foundation of the principall conclusion managed in the said explanation , and principally opposed by him . the conclusion is not that which mr. prynne extracts from the passage which he cites , viz. that there is not onely an improbabilitie , but an absolute impossibilitie , that the parliament should have any power at all to enact lawes and statutes in matters of religion , church-government , &c. here are words , which the explanation knows not , either in the letter , or in the spirit of them , as by name these , not onely an improbabilitie , an absolute impossibilitie , no power at all , &c. but the maine conclusion driven at in the passage , is this ; that the generalitie or promiscuous multitude of the land , have no authoritie or power from christ to nominate or appoint , who shall be the men that shall order the affaires of christs kingdome , or institute the government of his churches . the maine foundation or base of reason , upon which this pillar of truth stands in the said passage , is this ; because such an authoritie or power ( viz. to nominate or appoint who shall order the affaires of christs kingdome , or institute the government of his churches ) is greater then ever christ himself had , ( i meane as man , or mediator ) at least then ever he exercised , which in the sequell i explaine and prove . now then this is that which i say , that mr. prynne in all his long reasoning against the conclusion , doth not so much as with the least of his fingers once touch this ground , or answer any thing at all to it . so that he hath not as yet the least colour or pretence to blame me , if i be not proselyted to his opinion by what he hath written here . and because i desire faire and christian quarter with him for the future , i doe here promise and protest in the sight of god , angels , and men , that if mr. prynne shall at any time ( god preserving my life and understanding ) plainly and substantially demonstrate and prove , either that the generalitie , and promiscuous multitude of the land , have a power greater then ever the lord christ himself had , or exercised as man , or mediator ; or , that a power to nominate and appoint whom they please amongst men , to order the affaires of christs kingdome , and institute the government of his churches , is not a power greater then ever christ had , or at least exercised , as either man , or mediator ; i promise and protest againe , as before , that if mr. prynne , or any other , shall at any time clearly and fairly prove , either the one or the other of these propositions , i will pull downe with both mine hands , what i have built up but with one , and without any more adoe joyn judgement with mr. prynne touching the power of the civill magistrate in matters of religion : but till this be done , i neither see how mr. prynne can with a good conscience persist in his , nor require me to desist from mine . it is true , the lord christ as mediator , had all power given him both in heaven and on earth , mat. 28. 18. that is , had the whole and intire execution and transaction of all his fathers will , pleasure , and decrees , concerning all men , angels & creatures whatsoever , put into his hand & power . and hath given him authoritie to execute judgement also , because he is the son of man , joh. 5. 27. but he had no power or authoritie given him , to carry any thing contrary to his fathers will or pleasure . verily , verily , i say unto you , ( saith he himself , joh. 5. 19. ) the son can doe nothing of himself , but what he seeth the father doe , &c. so againe , ver . 30. i can doe nothing of my self — now then as christ had no commission or power to give eternall life , but onely to those whom god the father had given unto him , joh. 17. 2. joh. 6. 37. so neither had he any authoritative power to institute or appoint any other government for his churches , then that which he had seene with , or received from his father : much lesse had he any such power , to delegate unto men ( least of all unto unsanctified persons and rude multitudes ) a power of nominating whom they should please , to appoint and settle what government they pleas'd in the churches of god. certain i am , that christ never exercised any such power as this : and therefore have little hope of being convinc'd that he ever had it . howsoever , let us give the gentleman an unpartial hearing in what he pleads against the aforesaid conclusion . 1. to his former marginall annotation ( p. 22. ) honoured with a preface made of this word , note , wherein he tells me that gamaliel and my text never taught me any such anti-parliamentary doctrine . i answer , that neither doth gamaliel , nor my text , nor any other text whatsoever in scripture , teach mr. prynne to call the truth an anti-parliament try doctrine . but both gamaliel and my text teach me to take heed of fighting against god ; and i being taught so high and necessary a point of wisdome , conceiv'd it my dutie not to eat such a morsell alone , but to spread a table for as many of my brethren as pleas'd to come , and sit downe and eat of the same with me . i and my doctrine are onely in such a sense anti-parliamentarian , as christ and his were anti-cesarean . 2. to a second marginall note in the same page , ordered likewise to be noted ( as the former ) i answer likewise , that though people have authoritie to nominate such who by the rule of gods word may limit some particulars , though not by their own bare authoritie , without , or against the word , yet it followeth not ; either 1. that they have authoritie to nominate such , who shall have authoritie by vertue of such nomination to peremptorize by fire or sword all their limitations whatsoever , as agreeable to gods word . nor 2. doth it follow , that , in case their limitations should be agreeable to the word of god , therefore they have power to compell any man by externall violence , to subject either in their judgement or practise unto them ; especially whilst they are not able to convince them of any such excellency in these limitations , as an agreeablenesse to the word of god ? it is no waies agreeable to the word of god , that men should be punish'd either in their bodies or estates , for not siding with the truth in difficult and hard questions ; as all such may well be presum'd to be , wherein sober and conscientious persons cannot be satisfied . the word of god doth not permit two persons or parties of a dissenting judgement about an hard case or question , to judge or think hardly one of another a ; much lesse doth it permit them to punish , or lay violent hands one upon another . nor 3. and lastly , doth it follow , that , though princes , magistrates , ministers , parliaments , synods , should be nominated or elected by the lawfull power of the people , and withall should have authoritie by the word of god to limit any particulars thereof ; that therefore this authoritie should be deriv'd upon them by means of such nomination . every private man hath sufficient authoritie , ( though perhaps he may want abilitie of gifts ) to limit any particular in the word of god according to the word of god ; this being nothing else but a true and right apprehending or understanding of this word . which apprehension or understanding of his , though he hath no power by way of office to impart unto others , yet hath he a right , yea , and an obligation upon him by way of dutie , so to impart it , when god affords season and opportunitie , time and place for it . so that this marginall note is not accessory to any harme done to the said conclusion . 3. to a third marginall note subservient in the same page to the two former , i answer , 1. that though it should be granted , that every magistrate , parliament and synod have power to declare and injoyn , what is necessarie to be beleeved , practised , by or according to gods word , yet this is nothing more then what every pastor or minister over a congregation , hath power to do , yea and ought to do b from day to day in the course of his ministery . but 2. if by declaring and enjoyning , he means any such declaring and enjoyning , whereby magistrate , parliament , or synod , shall be enabled temporally to punish those who shall either not beleeve , or not practise ; i answer , that this is but petitio principii , a supposall of that which is the main question ; and therefore waits still upon mr. prynne's pen for a more sufficient proof , the old writ of ipse dixit , being out of date long since . we have reconciled the margent ; and nothing doubt but that the page will be of as easie accommodation . therefore 4. whereas he puts himself to the needlesse labour of repeating the charge formerly charged upon my doctrine , a an underminer of the authority of parliaments , &c. i shall take admonition by it , and save a needlesse labour of repeating what hath been already said in way of answer to it . onely i shall adde , that this repetition of mr. prinnes judgement and charge of my fore-mentioned doctrine , compared with my own thoughts and apprehensions of it , puts me in mind of a saying of a great casuist : eadem possunt alicui videri manifestè vera , quae alteri videntur manifestè falsa . the same things may seem to one manifestly true , which to another seem as manifestly false . that doctrine which mr. prynne arraigns as an underminer of parliamentary authority , i conceive to be a doctrine of the richest establishment and confirmation to it : of which apprehension of mine , i have given a sufficient account elsewhere . 5. whereas he further chargeth the said doctrine with contrarietie to my late covenant and protestation , and that in the most transcendent manner that ever any have hitherto attempted in print ; and refers himself to all wise men to judge , whether this be not so ; i referre both himself and all his wise men , to judge , whether i have not given a sufficient answer hereunto in my innocencies triumph . p. 4 , 5 , 6 , &c. yet lest sentence should be given against me herein , i here adde , that certainly no clause in that covenant and protestation intended , that the subscribers unto it should be bound in conscience by vertue of such subscription , to make gods of men , or ( which interpreted , amounts to as much ) to give any man dominion over his faith a . if this be but granted , my doctrine is no delinquent at all against the covenant and protestation . 6. whereas he promises , or threatens ( which he pleaseth ) short answer to my extravagant discourse ; and first alledgeth that the objection might be made against the generall assemblies , parliaments , kings of the israelites , who were chosen by the people , yet they made laws and statutes concerning religion , and gods worship , with his approbation : i answer . 1. that the , generall assemblies , and kings of israel , were not chosen by the people , at least by any formall free choice of one out of many , as our parliaments and assemblies are . for first the generall assemblies consisted of the generalitie of the people , and so were not chosen at all ; for where all are admitted , there is no choice . or secondly , if by the generall assemblies of israel , he means the seventy persons spoken of , numb . 11. 16. 24. &c. it is evident from the context , first , that they were not chosen by the people into that assembly , but by moses , and that by expresse order and command from god. they might possibly be chosen by the people into the places of elders and governours over their respective families and tribes ; but they had no right or calling by vertue of such eldership , to gather themselves into an assembly of seventy , upon any such terms , or for any such ends , as the fore-mentioned assembly were drawn together by god. secondly , evident like-wise it is , from ver . 25. that these seventy had a speciall anointing of the holy ghost from god , and prophecied . therefore there is a great difference between this assembly , and generall assemblies now . 2. neither were the kings of israel chosen by the people , but by god ; except we will call a subsequent consent and that by way of duty and homage to the choice made by god , a choice . when thou shalt come unto the land which the lord thy god giveth thee , and shalt possesse it and dwell therein , if thou say , i will set a king over me , like as all the nations that are about me , then shalt thou make him king over thee , whom the lord thy god shall chvse , &c. deut. 17. 14 , 15. saul their first king , was chosen and appointed by god , 1 sam. 9. 15 , 16. so david their second king , 1 sam. 16. 1. yea his seed likewise was chosen and appointed by god to succeed in this kingdom , and to reign after him for ever , 2 sam. 7. 12. 16. yea and notwithstanding this generall choice and designation , solomon their king , is particularly said to have been chosen by god , 1 chron. 29. 1. so for the kings that reigned over the ten tribes , after the rent of the ten tribes from the other two ; jeroboam , the first king , was chosen by god , 1 king. 11. 31. yea and his seed also , conditionally , ver . 38. but nadah his son , proving wicked , brake the condition , and cut off the intailment . their third king , baasha , was not chosen by the people neither , but was fore-chosent by god , 1 king. 14. 14. to do that execution upon the house of ieroboam , which is recorded , 1 king. 15. 27 , 28 , 29. elab their next king succeeded his father , by right of inheritance , and is no where said to have been chosen by the people into the throne . zimri the next , was a bloody traytor and usurper . the two next following him , omri and tibni , were set up indeed by the people , but not in any way of a lawfull and regular election , but by way of tumult and faction : and the one partie prevailing , the king followed by the other , was soon suppressed . ahab the son of the prevailing king , without any election by the people ( except a connivence or permission , be called an election ) by the ascent of descent or succession got up into the throne . after the same manner also ahaziah his son came to be king. this ahaziath dying without children , his brother jeboram ( another son of ahath , and next to him by birth , as it seems ) by the priviledge of his birth came peaceably to the kingdom , without any election by the people any where heard of . 2 king. 1. 17. the next king , jehu by name , was chosen by god himself after a speciall manner , 2 king. 9. 1 , 2. and his children after him to the fourth generation ( 2 king. 10. 30. ) to sit upon the throne of israel , shallum , who succeeded ahab and his race , ( their date of reiglement being expired ) came to the kingdome by blood ; and is indeed said to have smote zachariah ( the last of ahabs race ) before the people , and so to have reigned in his stead : ( 2 king. 15. 10. ) but by what maxime enle ley , the murthering of a king before the people , will be interpreted , a being chosen king by the people , i understand not . menahem his successor after a moneths reigne , found the same way to the kingdome ( i mean , by blood ) which his predecessour had chalked out . pekahiah his son and successour , had no other choice we read of , but onely by that his relation . nor had pekah who succeeded him in the throne , any other choice into this dignitie , but onely by the murther he committed upon his master ; except it be said , that he was chosen by those 52. men who assisted him in that bloody execution . 2. king. 15. 25. nor had hoshea ( the last of these kings ) any other choice , entrance , or accesse we read of unto the throne , but the same with his predecessor , a bloodie conspiracie against his lord and master . so that mr. prynne is absolutely mistaken in the very bottome and groundwork of his first allegation , affirming the generall assemblies , parliament , kings of the israelites , to have been chosen by the people . 3. ( and lastly ) neither did they make laws and statutes concerning religion and gods worship , with his approbation , except his approbation went along with the transgression of his law. for by this they stood expresly charg'd , not to adde unto the word which he commanded them , nor yet to diminish ought from it . deut. 4. 2. and againe , deut. 12. 32. and what addition could be made with an higher hand , or with more provocation in the sight of god , unto this word of his , then an enacting laws and statutes concerning religion , and his worship , whereunto men should stand bound in conscience to submit , as well as unto the lawes of god themselves declared in this word ? or if it be said , that men were not bound in conscience to submit to such laws and statutes , as well as unto the laws of god ; then were they not to be punished for non-submission to them , unlesse we will say , that men ought to be punished for somewhat else , besides sin . to his second reason against the doctrine and conclusion aforesaid , i answer , that as god himself used the ministery , assistance of cyrus , artaxerxes , darius , for the building of his temple , and advancement of his worship , for which they made decrees , statutes ; so i conceive he doth expect and require the ministery , assistance of christian magistrates , parliaments , and laws and statutes to be made by them , for the promotion of his worship , but as cyrus , artaxerxes , darius , made no decree , statute , to discourage any of the true worshipers of god , nor yet to compell them to any kinde of worship , contrary ( in their judgements ) to the word of god ; or in case they did make , or should have made , any such decree , statute , they should have exceeded the limits of their just power , and not have done justifiably in the sight of god ; so neither can christian princes , magistrates , commend themselves unto god in any such exercise of their power , whereby they shall constraine or enforce the conscientious & faithfull servants of god to any kind of worship , contrary to their conscience , or by the performance whereof , condemning it in their judgements for unlawfull , they should pollute and condemne themselves in the sight of god. to his third reason we answer likewise ; that for most christian kings and magistrates in the world , whether claiming to be hereditarie , or whether eligible by the people , as the members of parliament are , we can without either disloyaltie or absurdity , deny them any such authority in matters of religion and church-government , whereby they should be enabled to destroy , crush , or undo such persons as live godlily and peaceably under their jurisdiction , and that for none other reason or offence on their parts , but either for weaknesse in judgement and understanding , by reason whereof they cannot see the agreeablenesse of those things that are imposed on them , to the word of god , ( in case they be indeed so qualified ) or else for the goodnesse of their conscience , which is unwilling to ship-wrack it s own peace , by going contrarie to its own light and dictate . we freely allow to all christian kings and magistrates in the world , any authoritie whatsoever in matters of religion , church-government , or in what other causes or cases soever it can be desired either by them , or for them , which will not claim or challenge a right of power to punishmen for not being as wise , as learned , as farre insighted into matters of religion as themselves , or for such matters of fact which are occasioned directly and meerly by such defects as these . we allow a power to all magistrates to punish the wickednesse of mens wils ; when this discovers it self by any sutable action in what matters or cases soever : but the weaknesse of mens judgements , we conceive cals rather for means of instruction , then matter of punishment , from the magistrates hand . we cannot judge , that the mistaking of a mans way in a dark controversie , deserves a prison , or any other stroke with the civill sword . to his fourth we answer ; 1. that whereas he affirms , that i do not onely grant , but argue , that every private man hath , yea ought to have , power to elect and constitute his own minister , causing these words to be printed in a differing character , as if they were mine , and onely transcribed by him , citing ( in his margin ) pag. 25. 26. as their quarter in my discourse ; the truth is , that this is no fair play ; for there is no such line or juncto of wordseither in either of those pages , or elsewhere in those sermons . it never came into my thoughts to think , ( nor surely ever issued out of my pen ) that every private man hath , or ought to have a power to constitute his own minister . and besides he puts a more quaint and subtlle distinction upon me , then i am capable of . i cannot conceive that any private man hath a power to elect or constitute his minister , except he ought to have it . that power which god hath been pleased to conferre upon any man , he both ought to have , and hath ; though the exercise and benefit of that power may be injuriously denied unto him , or withheld from him . 2. whereas he further presumes , that i will grant , that private men have power likewise to set up independent congregations , which have authoritie to prescribe such covenants , laws and rules of government , discipline , worship , as themselves think most agreeable to the word ; and hereupon demands ; if then they may derive such an ecclesiasticall authority to independent ministers and churches , why not as well to parliaments , and synods likewise by the self-same reason ? i answer , 1. that he is mistaken in his good opinion of my bountie . for i do not grant , either first , that all , or every sort of , private men have power to set up any independent congregation . or 2. that any private men have power to set up any such congregation consisting of other men then themselves : but onely to agree together amongst themselves to become such a congregation . or 3. that any congregation whatsoever hath any authoritie to practise , much lesse to prescribe either such covenants , laws , rules of government , or worship , as themselves onely think most agreeable to the word of god ; but onely to practise those amongst themselves which they know to be agreeable to the word of god ; without prescribing either these or any other , unto others . god gives no person or congregation any authoritie or power so much as to practise themselves what they simple think most agreeable to his word , but onely that which really is agreeable unto his word ; much lesse doth he give either the one or the other any authority to prescribe their thinkings in this kind unto others . but 2. whereas he demands , why private men may not derive an ecclesiasticall authority unto parliaments and synods , as well as unto independent ministers and churches ; the account is readie : 1. no private men whatsoever , can in any sense , neither in whole , nor in part , derive any ecclesiasticall authority , either unto any minister , but onely him , unto whom they commit the charge of their ●ouls ; nor unto any congregation , but onely that whereof they are members themselves . therefore it no wayes follows ; private men have power to derive ecclesiasticall authoritie to those congregations whereof they are the respective members themselves : therefore they have the like power to derive the same authority to parliaments , and synods , whereof they are no members : take a parallel : the assistants in the company of chirurgians , have an interest in the government and carriage of the affairs of their own companie ; therefore they have the same interest in the government of the affairs of the company , of merchant-taylors . 2. a person qualified for the office and work of the ministery according to the word of god , is a subject capable of ecclesiasticall authority ; and may accordingly by persons authorized by the word of god thereunto , be lawfully invested with that power : but we have no rule or direction from the word of god either 1. to judge whether , or when , either parliaments or synods are subjects capable of ecclesiasticall authoritie : nor 2. is there any rule or warrant to be found there for the authorizing of any sort , or rank of men , actually to conferre such an authority or power , in case they should be found subjects capable of it . therefore mr. prynnes arguing in this place , is of no better form , or strength , then this : private men may do that which gods word authorizeth them to do : therefore they may do that also , which gods word doth not authorize them unto . but 3. ( and lastly ) the main foundation and ground-work upon which he builds the fabrique of his reasoning here , is an utter mistake . for i neither grant nor think , that private men , either when by consent they first congregate themselves and chuse a minister or pastor over them , much lesse when they joyn themselves to a congregation already gathered and form'd , do derive any ecclesiasticall authority unto it : but that a company of persons fearing god , and consenting together to become a church-body or holy congregation , have an authoritie ( which you may call ecclesiastique , if you please ; but i shall not commend the terme unto you in this case , nor would i willingly call it an authoritie , but rather a right or priviledge ) derived unto them , not by themselves , but from god. first to chuse unto themselves a pastor , and other officers , as opportunity shall be , such as are recommended in the scriptures as meet for such places , and then by , and together , with these to administer and order their church-affaires , in all the concernments thereof , according to the word of god , in the name and authoritie of our lord jesus christ , whose properly , all ecclesiasticall authoritie is . to his fift argument , we answer , 1. by a demurre , whether god doth oft-times makes use of unsanctified persons , and the rude multitude ( which i doe not under-value , because i refuse to entitle them to a power in church-matters greater then ever the apostles had ) to advance his glory , propagate his gospel , promote his worship , vindicate his truth , edifie his church . a judas , a balaam , a saul , a gamaliel , a persecuting high priest , were not the rude multitude : unsanctified persons it is like they were , at least most of them : but god did not oft-times make use either of balam , or saul , or gamaliel , or the persecuting high priest , either to propagate his gospel , promote his worship , edifie his church , &c. but the devill oft-times made use of them to the contrary , viz. to hinder his gospel , to pollute his worship , to persecute his church , &c. and for the vulgar multitude , which he commends as none-such , for forwardnesse to beleeve , follow , professe christ , embrace the gospel , though he confesseth , that many of them did it for sinister ends ; i answer , 1. that this multitude was but one swallow , ( not a multitude of swallows ) and therefore not sufficient to make his spring , of gods oft-times using the rude multitude to doe such and such things . 2. they that beleeve , follow , professe christ , embrace the gospel out of sinister ends , when they decline and fall back ( as all sinister-ended professors are like to doe first , or last , and as this vulgar multitude generally did ) are like more to hinder and set back the gospel by their declining , then ever they propagated or promoted it by their profesion . but 2. whereas he inferres , that therefore they may well have power to chuse such persons , who shall and may make lawes , to promote the gospel and government of the church of christ ; i answer . 1. that gods power to make use of unsanctified persons , or a rude multitude to promote the affaires of his gospel , worship , churches , &c. is no argument to prove , that therefore men may commit the care and trust of these affaires to such persons or multitudes , or interesse them in any such power , which it is ten to one but they will use rather in a destructive , then promotive way thereunto . gods power to powre out a spirit of prophecie upon a person altogether ignorant of the scriptures ; and so to powre out a spirit of grace and holinesse upon a gracelesse and prophane person , is no ground or warrant for a christian congregation to chuse either such an ignorant or prophane person for their minister or pastor . 2. neither is gods will , act , or example in this kind , as viz. when to shew the soveraigntie of his power over and above the powers of darknesse , and the god of this world ; he makes use of satan to give testimony unto his son jesus christ , as he did , mar. 1. 24. luk. 4. 34. and so to exercise the patience of job by afflicting him , as he did , job 1. such acts ( i say ) or dispensations of god as these , are no grounds for the justification of such men , who shall make use of the devill to preach the gospel , or to afflict the saints , for the exercise or improvement of their patience . therefore nothing that ever god hath done ( how oft soever he hath done it ) either by unsanctified persons , or by rude multitudes , for the propagation of his gospel , the edification of his church , &c. doth any waies countenance or warrant men , to invest either the one or the other with such a power , whereby they may endamage and make havock and spoyle both of the one and the other . the reason is plaine : because the evill spirit that said a , jesus i know , and paul i know ; yet said to the exorcists , but who are yee ? so the powers of sin and wickednesse in men , which will tremble at the voyce of god , and forget their natures and motions at his command , will laugh all the conjurements and charmings of men in the face to scorne ; and will act their own parts , and drive on their own way with what fury and violence they please , notwithstanding all charges , intercessions , and obtestations of men to the contrary . therefore no power can with reason , equitie , or conscience , be put into the hand of such persons , ( i meane persons unsanctified and rude multitudes ) or nominating whom they please ( i meane from amongst persons eligible enough by the lawes of the land either for parliamentary or synodicall interest ) to umpire in the affaires of the gospel , and to make what lawes they please for the government of the church of christ . if it be yet objected and said ; but why may not unsanctified persons and rude multitudes nominate and chuse such , who by vertue of such nomination may have power to make lawes in matters of religion , worship , government of the church , &c. though not according as they please , yet according to the word of god , and such as are agreeable thereunto ? what inconvenience is there in this ? i answer , 1. by way of concession ; that the grant of a power in persons so nominated and chosen to make lawes onely of incouragement and protection to the servants of god , in matters of religion and church-government , or to order some particularities in either , onely upon incouragements to those that shall obey without penall enactions against those that cannot obey , may possibly not tend or sort to much inconvenience . nor let any man think , that outward mulcts and penalties are essentiall unto laws , whether in matters of religion , worship , or in any other cases . threatning of bodily punishment ( saith learned mr. rutherford , one of the commissioners for the kingdome of scotland a is not essentiall to lawes in the generall , because some lawes are seconded onely with rewards . yet this inconvenience ( it's like ) would attend even such a power , were it granted ; those lawes which should be made in matters of religion , worship , &c. by men in authoritie , would be of like consequence amongst the generalitie of men , with the traditions of the scribes and pharisees , by which they made the commandements of god of none effect b ; i meane they would so interesse themselves in the hearts and affections of the common sort of men , that they would soone place more in the observation of them , then in keeping the commandements of god. an experiment of which inconvenience we had in folio , in the ceremoniall and superstitious injunctions of the late prelaticall power , when men thought better of themselves for standing up at the creed , joyning in gloria patri , secundum usum sarum , bowing at the name jesus , cringing before an altar , &c. then they did of others for hearing the word of god preached , with reverence and attention , or for walking in a conscientious conformitie unto it . but 2. if a further power shall be granted unto men so chosen ( i meane by unsanctified persons and rude multitudes , as mr. prynne calleth them ) as viz. a power of enacting lawes and statutes in matters of religion , worship , &c. under what mulcts and penalties they please , who shall judge whether these lawes and statutes be agreeable to the word of god , or no ? if they themselves , the law-makers , shall be judges , miserable is the condition of the servants of god under them like to be : because it is not to be expected , but that they will avouch whatever lawes or statutes they shall make in this kind , to be agreeable to the word of god. the popish parliaments , during the reigne of antichristianisme in the land , did no lesse . if the people , from whom obedience and subjection to such lawes is expected , shall be authorized to judge , whether these lawes be agreeable to the word of god , or no ; ( which of necessitie must be granted , otherwise obedience unto them can never be yeelded with a good conscience ) this will reflect prejudice and disparagement upon the wisdome and prudence of the law-givers , ( and consequently enervate their authoritie ) especially when any of these judges shall give sentence in oppositum , and determine a nullitie in such lawes , for want of due correspondence with the word of god. the nomothetique power or authoritie , wherever it resides , will never consult honour , interest , confirmation or strength to it self , by making such lawes , which in their very nature , frame , and constitution are matters of dispute , and which must passe and abide the tests of the judgements and consciences of the best and wisest of those that are to yeeld subjection unto them , and that with so much hazard of censure and contradiction , as lawes made in matters of religion , worship , and church-government , alwayes have been and ever will be exposed unto . the point of agreeablenesse to the word of god , in lawes and statutes about matters of religion , will be a farre longer suite and question between legislators in that kind , and conscientious subjects , then ever any chancerie suite was , or is like to be 3. to me it is a question , whether in this assertion ( at least understood according to the proper importance of the words ) men have power to make laws and statutes in matters of religion , worship , &c. agreeable to the word of god ; there be not contradictio in adjuncto ( as logicians speak ) . it is a very hard matter for me to conceive how any thing should be agreeable to the word of god , at least in matters of religion , worship , &c. but onely that , which for the spirit , matter and substance of it , is the word of god it self . there is no great agreeablenesse between that which is necessarie , and that which is unnecessarie ; between that which is indulgent and favourable to the saints and others in point of libertie , and that which inthrals and brings them into bondage ; between that which is of divine inspiration , and that which is of humane . now certain it is , that whatsoever is imposed upon men by the word of god , is necessarie , and of divine inspiration ; and whatsoever the word of god doth not impose upon men , it doth it in a way of a gracious libertie and indulgence unto men . and as certain it is , that whatsoever shall be imposed upon the saints or others by men , especially in matters of religion , worship , &c. which for the matter and substance of it is not the very word of god it self , is first unnecessarie , ( for otherwise we must make the word of god imperfect , and defective even in matters of necessitie , which is popery in the highest ) and secondly , it is but of humane inspiration , except we hold enthusiasme , and the revelations eccentrick to the scriptures are yet authentique and of propheticall authority : thirdly ( and lastly ) it is an abridgement of the libertie , a cancelling of that indulgence , wherewith god in his word hath gratified the world . therefore whatsoever shall be imposed by men upon men in matter of religion , worship , &c. under a pretence of an agreeablenesse to the word of god , in case it be not ( in the sense declared ) the very word of god it self , it can have no other agree thlenesse with this word , then pelop's shoulder , which ( if poets feign not ) was made of yvorie , had with the other limbs and members of his body which were all living and sound flesh . yea and whether any law or statute , can in any sense be said to be agreeable to the word of god , which shall make the saints servants and bondmen , where god in his word hath either made them , or left them free , i refer to further and more mature consideration . but 4. and lastly , suppose it were granted , as a thing convenient , that some should be intrusted or invested with a power of making laws and statutes in matters of religion , worship , &c. provided they be agreeable to the word of god ; yet in asmuch as the making of such laws and statutes upon such terms , necessarily requireth the most exact and profound knowledge and understanding of the scriptures ; i cannot conceive that unsanctified persons , or rude multitudes , should be authorized by god , or by any principle of sound reason , to have the nomination or election of those men ; but rather another generation , who may in reason be conceived to have a more excellent spirit of discerning of such abilities in men , then they . when men stand in need of the help and advise of a physician , lawyer , or divine , they do not addresse themselves to a company of children playing together in the market place , ( as our saviour speaks a ) to nominate or vote amongst them , what person in any of these professions they should imploy & commit their concernments unto . no more did god ever issue any commission out of heaven to unsanctified persons , rude multitudes , men ignorant of god and of the scriptures , to nominate or chuse for him , who , or what men he should imploy to make lawes and statutes for his saints and churches , in matters of religion , and which concerne his worship . a man of ordinary discretion , and that knows any thing of the nature or disposition of the fox , will never chuse a fox to be his caterer ( as our english proverb hath it ) . to his sixt and last argument , i answer , and end . 1. that it is not alwayes found , that those who have no skill at all in law , physicke , or architecture , have yet judgement and reason enough to make choyce of the best lawyers , physicians , architects , when they need their help . if this were true , these professions would prove malignant unto , and eat up the far greatest part of their own children and professors : there would be very few in any of them , that ever should have imployments . for who is there that would set a bungler on work , that hath judgement and reason enough to chuse a master-workman ? especially considering what our engish proverb saith ; the best , is best cheape . there is no man will ride upon an ox , that may have a well-manag'd and mettal'd gelding to carrie him . but 2. suppose it should be granted , as universally true , that men who have no skill at all in the said professions , yet had judgement and reason enough to make choyce of the best in every of them respectively , when they stood in need of their help ; yet this supposition must be made withall , that these best practitioners , which according to the other supposition will be chosen , have given a sufficient account & proofe , and that to publick satisfaction of their respective abilities in their severall professions . otherwise how shall they who have no skill in their professions , come to know or understand , so much as by conjecture , who are the best in them ? this being so , mr. prynnes comparison or parallel , halts right-downe . because many of those , who are by the laws of the land eligible into places of parliamentarie trust and power , yea , haply many of those who are of the best and richest accomplishment for the discharge of that part of this trust , which mr. prynne will needs suppose belongeth to them , ( i meane in making lawes in matters of religion , worship , church-government , &c. agreeable to the word of god ) never have given any publick account or proofe ( nor perhaps ever had opportunitie to doe it ) of those abilities which god hath given them in that kinde . and if so , how should the rude multitudes , or the generalitie of the people ever come to know or understand who are the best or fittest men to be chosen into those great places of trust and power ? 3. when men stand in need of the help either of a lawyer , physician , or architect , it is a far easier matter to know how to chuse a man in any of these professions , without running the hazard of much detriment in his occasions , then it is for men to know how to chuse men tolerably qualified for parliamentary imployment ; especially , if one part of this imployment consists in making lawes & statutes in matters of religion , worship , &c. agreeable to the word of god. the reason of the difference is plaine : recourse is made to lawyers ( and so to physicians , architects respectively ) onely for one kind of help or imployment , and that such which is proper to their profession , and wherein their abilitie and sufficiencie , is or very possibly may be sufficiently knowne ; but parliamentarie service or imployment consisting ( according to mr. prynnes notion ) as well in making church-lawes , in matters of religion , worship , & agreeable to the word of god , as in framing laws politique , to accommodate the civill affaires of the common-wealth ( which are imployments of a very differing nature , hardly incident unto , and very rarely found in one and the same person ) it must needs be conceived to be a matter of very great difficultie , and requiring a very choyce and excellent spirit of discerning , to make a commendable , yea , or a competent choice of men for that investiture and trust . yea , himself 〈◊〉 acknowledgeth little lesse then an utter inconsistencie of respective abilities in one and the same person , for these so different imployments ; for here he requires , both politicians and statesmen os fit to be consulted with a suit a church-government to the civill state , and likewise an assembly of divines , to square it by , and to the word . but in as much as whatsoever an assembly of divines shall determine in or about churh-government , or other matters of religion , cannot passe into an act , law , or statute , but by the superveening of parliamentarie interest upon their determinations and there beeing every whit as great ( if not farre greater ) abilities in divinitie and knowledge of the scriptures , requisite to enable men rightly to discerne and judge , whether a church-government , or other decision in matter of religion , be agreeable to the word of god , as there are to discourse and make out that in either kind which is agreeable thereunto ; yea and further , it being no waies either christian or reasonable , that a parliament should passe that into an act , law , or statute , as agreeable to the word of god , and obliege an whole kingdome under mulcts and penalties to submit unto it accordingly , which themselves are not able to discerne whether it be indeed agreeable unto the word of god , or no ; these three things ( i say ) duly considered , evident it is , that it is a matter almost of infinite difficultie , ( and therefore not so obvious to unsanctified persons , and rude multitudes , as mr. prynnes would carrie it ) to discerne or make choice of persons of a due temper and composition for parliamentarie operations , mr. prynnes supposition being admitted , viz. that making lawes in matters of religion , as well as in civill affaires , is a part of these operations . to set then his comparison upright , wee must state it thus : suppose mr. prynne were of none of the three professions he speaks of , neither lawyer , nor physician , nor architect , but stood in need of the help of them all , having 1. a suite at law of very great concernment to him ; 2. a dangerous distemper or disease upon his body ; 3. an house to build for his necessary accommodation ; and in this posture of necessities , were necessitated or limited to make choyce of three men , but all of one and the same profession , either all lawyers , or all physicians , or all architects , to minister unto him in all his respective concernments and necessities ; i beleeve that under such a constellation of circumstances and occasions as these , though he be a man of farre greater judgement and reason , then the generalitie of men are , yet he would not find it so easie a matter to satisfie himself in the choyce of his men within the compasse of any one of the three professions . this is the true state and case of the difficultie of parliamentarie elections , upon mr. prynnes supposition of parliamentarie interest and power . 4. suppose yet further , that unsanctified persons and rude multitudes had skill enough to elect the most eminent and ablest men for parliamentary service ; yet who knoweth not but that there is somewhat ( yea , much ) more then knowledge of what is a mans dutie , required to make him willing to doe it . to him that knoweth to doe good , and doth it not , to him it is sin ( saith james ) jam. 4. 17. it is no wayes reasonable to think , that unsanctified persons , and men addicted to sinfull lusts and pleasures , should willingly and by the ducture of their own inclinations , put a power of making lawes into the hands of such men , who they know are professed enemies to those lawlesse waies of theirs , and therefore are like , being interessed in such a power , to make lawes for the restraint and punishment of them . that god , when he pleaseth , may by an extraordinarie hand of providence , over-rule the natures and dispositions of men in this kind , and serve unfanctified persons in their parliamentary elections , as he did the syrian host of old , which he led blindfold into the midst of samaria , when they thought they had been going to dothan , is not denied ; yea , it is acknowledged , that in grace and mercy to this nation , he hath stretched out that very hand of providence we speake of in the choyce of many members of the honourable assembly of parliament ; whose perseverance in a faithfull discharge of their imployment , declares , that their election was more from god , then from men . therefore that one word of mr. prynnes which follows p. 24. viz. that the choyce which your vilest and most unworthy of men have made this parliament , may for ever refute this childish reason , the corner stone of your independent fabrique fastened together with independent crotchets , unable to abide the test ; this one word ( i say ) is no word either of reason or of truth . an happy election made by men over-acted by god in the action , doth no more prove either a proportionablenesse of wisdome , or a sutablenesse of affection in such persons to make such a choyce , then that praise which god hath ordained , and which he accordingly draws out of the mouths of babes and sucklings , proves these babes and sucklings to be indued with a naturall strength and abilitie of yeelding such praise unto god : or then the service which the ravens did the prophet in bringing unto him bread and flesh duly morning and evening a , proves that they had a principle of reason and understanding , to know and to consider the necessities of godly and faithfull men ; or that such men ought to renounce their estates and callings , and to depend upon ravens for their sustenance . and besides , how doth the election of so many members of this parliament , who stand by their trust with faithfulnesse and honour , more refute ; then the election of so many unworthy ones , who have not onely turned their back , but head also upon both , confirm my reason ? not to mention so many elections as have been made both in queen maries dayes , and many a time before these , of such members , who made many a law as agreeable to the word of god , as harp is to harrow . which further shews , of how slender esteeme in point of truth , that assertion of his pa. 23. is : where he saith , that those that are unjit or unable to be members of parliament themselves , yet have had wisdom enough in all ages , and especially at this present , to elect the must eminent and ablest men for such a service . so that if my pen were not more bashfull then mr. prynnes , it would say , that the reason defendant is by many degrees more childish then the reason plaintiffe : and that this presbyterian engins wherewith he makes account to batter my independent fabrick , are made of independent metall , able to do no execution at all . there is not one brick or tyle in all my independent fabrick , as yet bruised , crack'd or shaken , by all the hot and loud play of mr. prynnes artillery against it . but 5. whereas in further prosecution of this last reason , he argues thus : if the common people , which neither are , nor can be parliaments , emperours , kings , judges , magistrates , ministers , have yet a lawfull power to make others such , by their bare election , & to give them such authority and power as themselves never actually were , nor can be possessors of ; then why by the self same reason may they not likewise delegate a lawful ecclesiasticall legislative authoritie in church affairs to their elected parliamentary and synodicall members , which was never actually in themselves , as well as mr. goodwin delegate the power of determining who should be fit persons to receive the sacrament , and to become members of his independent congregation , to eight select substitutes , which was never actually vested in himself , nor transferible thus to others by any law of god , or man ? in answer ( passing by the grammatical illegality of the period ) 1. that mr. goodwin never delegated the power he speaks of , of determining who , &c. to any substitutes ; but this delegation was made respectively by those , who had power , ( yea haply and dutie too ) by the law of god , and power sufficient by the law of man , to referre themselves for matter of examination and triall touching their fitnesse for the sacrament , unto persons of competent abilities for such a christian service . mr. prynnes pen is ( i think ) the most unhappie and un-successefull in matters of impeachment and charge , that ever contested against the misdemeanors of men ; it seldome or never lays the indictment right . here he chargeth me with delegating such and such a power to eight substitutes ; a little after , that i have wilfully , yea and presumptuously undermined the undoubted priviledges of parliament by the very roots : a little before , that i scandalously terme the commonaltie of the land , the vilest and most unworthy of men : not long before this ( viz. pa. 21. ) that i preach but seldome to my parishioners : that i receive their tithes : that i gather an independent congregation to my self : that i prescribe a covenant unto them before they be admitted members of it : that i preach to these alone , neglecting my parishioners , &c. in all which suggestions and charges there is but one and the same proportion of love and truth . 2. whereas he supposeth that the common people , by their bare election , give such an authority and power , to parliaments , emperours , kings , &c. as themselves never actually were , nor can be possessours of ; he doth not ( i conceive ) speak like a man of his profession ; certain i am , that he doth not speak the truth ; no , nor yet the thoughts of men of learning and judgement in the point . for 1. ( to reason the case a little in point of truth ) if the common people were not actually possessed of that authority and power , which by their election they give to parliaments , emperours , kings , &c. i demand , how , or after what manner they were possessed of it ? for in saying , they were not actvally possessed of it , he supposes and grants , that they were some wayes or other possessed of it . no man excludes one speciall modification from a thing , but for the gratification of another . now then if the common people were not actvally possessed of that authority and power which by their election they give unto parliaments , emperours , &c. they were onely potentially possessed of it . for actually and potentially , are opposita ; yea and of that kind which they call opposita immediata . so that whatsoever is had or possessed by any , and not actually , must of necessiue be had or possessed potentially , and potentially onely ( at least in respect of an actuall possession . ) now then i reason first thus : if the people have that power though not actually , yet potentially , which by their election they give to parliaments , emperours , kings , &c. then are they capable of it even actually also ; which yet mr. prynne here plainly denies , in these words , nor can be possessours of . the consequence is undeniable : for whatsoever any entire subject hath , or is , potentiâ ; there is no impossibilitie but that it may have , or be , actu , or actually . so that mr. prynne is here upon the matter in an absolute contradiction . for he supposeth that the people may have that authoritie or power potentially , which yet he saith is unpossible they should ever have actually . again , i would willingly for the bettering of mine understanding , know and learn , how any person , or other agent whatsoever , can actually conferre that upon , or communicate that unto another , which it hath onely potentially it self . water , whilest it is actually cold , and onely potentially hot , cannot heat that which is put into it . nor can a man that is actually ignorant of such or such a truth , and potentially onely knowing it , actually communicate or impart the knowledge thereof unto another , by vertue of that potentiall knowledge which he hath . no more can a people that is onely potentially possessed of any authority or power , actually give or conferre it upon any , whether parliaments , emperours , kings , &c. the ground of all such consequences as these , is that common principle or maxime in reason : modus operandi sequitur modum essendi . things that have but a weak or imperfect being themselves , cannot give strength or perfection of being unto others . but had mr. prynne said the body of a nation have that authority really , vertually , eminently , and collectively , which they cannot have formally , distributively , and exemptively ; i should have had the lesse to say unto him . for the judgement of men learned in matters of this concernment ; he that shall please to read the discourse of christophorus besoldus , intituled , dissertatio politico-juridica de majestate in genere , &c. shall find a little jurie of lawyers joyning with him in the verdict of his judgement upon the case ; the tenor whereof is , that there is not onely an authoritie or power , but ( that which is somewhat more ) a majestie also in the people , which is coevall with the republique or common-wealth it self ; and which continues as long as the body thereof remains , yea and stands firm under all vacancies of personall empire , and all alterations and changes of government : in which respect he saith it may be called the foundation or ground-work of the common-wealth . this majestie in the people he cals , reall ; that in the king or chief ruler , personall : this he saith , still fals and expires with the death of the person invesred with it ; and returns to the people , or commonwealth . yea and adds , that the people in making or setting up a king over them , transferre onely a power of administring , not of constituting the common-wealth . with more to like effect a therefore the opinion of this man with his associates clearly is , that the people have really or actually , that authority or power which by their election they transfer upon , or derive unto their rulers and governours . 3. ( and lastly , for this ) whereas he affirmeth , that such a power , as he supposeth to have been delegated by me to eight substitutes , is not transcrible to others by any law of god or man ; and yet demands , why the common people may not as well delegate a lawfull ecclesiasticall legislative authoritie in church-affaires unto their elected parliamentarie and synodall members , as i delegate such a power ; i answer and confesse , that they may every whit as well ( and no whit better ) delegate such an authoritie to such their members , as i delegate such a power to my substitutes . 6. whereas in prosecution of his last argument , he further argues and interrogates thus ; why may not a man bring an ecclesiasticall or spirituall extraction out of a secular roote , as well as a regall , magisteriall , parliamentall , ministeriall extraction out of a meere popular or servile roote ? or the best strong waters out of the vilest lees ? the richest mineralls out of the coursest earth ? the most orient pearles , out of the basest oysters ? i answer , 1. that no regall , magisteriall , parliamentall , ministeriall extraction can be made out of a meere servile roote . a people meerely servile , can have no libertie or power to appoint or chuse unto themselves either kings , masters , parliaments , or ministers . therefore mr. prynnes question very truly imports , that the one extraction may ●s well be made , as the other ; but it no waies proves a possibilitie of either . 2. there is a plain reason , why and how a regall , magisteriall , parliamentall extraction may be made out of a popular roote : but there is a loud reclamation in reason and religion both , against a possibilitie of making a spirituall extraction out of a secular roote . regall , magisteriall , parliamentall extractions , are in their respective natures and tendencies , means proportioned to the civill and temporall ends , or good of the people ; and god having endued men , ( i meane the common sort or generalitie of men , the people ) with wisdome and understanding to accommodate and provide for themselves in such things as these , hath given them power accordingly to make use of such principles and endowments in a regular way , for the accomplishment and obtaining of such ends . now civill rule and government being a naturall , proper , and direct means , whereby a good societie or communitie of men may best obtaine a civill or politique good , viz. a safe , just , and peaceable living and conversing together in the world ; god therefore hath given them a libertie and power to contrive and cast themselves into what forme of government they should judge most conducible to such ends . upon which indulgence or grant from heaven , they have a lawfull power by consent among themselves to elect and chuse whom they please to governe them , and that upon such terms , as they conceive most agreeable to those ends . and yet even in this government it self , one communitie or corporation of men have no right or lawfulnesse of power , to chuse or appoint either government , or governors over another : least of all hath any communitie , consisting of men altogether uncivill , ignorant , and unexperienced in matters of government , any lawfulnesse of power to appoint either rule or rulers over other societies , whose members generally are of a better accomplishment , for civilitie , & parts of wisdome , learning , and understanding ; but all societies of men since the dissolution of the judaicall politie , are left free by god and nature , to set over themselves what government and governors they shall judge of best accommodation , for their temporall safety and peace . but now in spirituall things , and matters of religion , the case is farre otherwise ; differing as much from the former , as the heavens from the earth . god hath not endued the generalitie of men with spirituall wisdome and understanding , nor with the knowledge of those things which are of a supernaturall concernment unto them ; and consequently hath not invested them with any power of casting themselves into what forme of government they please in respect of these , nor of chusing whom they please to rule over them , no nor yet of appointing upon what terms they will be governed in these . the naturall man ( saith the scripture ) perceiveth not ( or , receiveth not ) the things of the spirit of god ; for they are foolishnesse unto him : neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned , 1 cor. 2. 14. now certaine it is , that the farre greater part of men in every state politique or kingdome , are naturall men , and consequently perceive not the things of the spirit of god. many are called , ( saith our saviour ) but few chosen . and 2. as certaine it is , that god doth not interesse or invest any man or men , with a power of interposing in such things , which are not of their cognizance , and whereof they have no knowledge or perceivance . much lesse 3. hath he given a power to naturall men who perceive not the things of the spirit of god , to appoint rulers and governors in these , over men that are spirituall , and which doe perceive them . this were to give a power unto the blind , to lead not the blind onely , but even the seeing also . nay , 4. and lastly , god hath not given unto spirituall men themselves any power to nominate or chuse men , to make any new lawes or articles in matters of religion , worship , church-government , &c. but onely to administer , execute and teach those , which are already ordained and established by god himself , as hath been prov'd already . thus then we see there is reason enough and to spare , why such a spirituall extraction as the two brethren speak of , cannot be made out of a secular roote ; though a regall , magisteriall , parliamentall extraction , may well be made out of a popular roote . but 3. whereas mr. prynne supposeth that a ministeriall extraction ( as he calleth it ) is , or may be made out of a meere popular or servile roote , this supposition is not made without opposition to the truth . for no people or men , meerly such , that is , as they are simply people or men , have any power delegated unto them by god or by christ , to set a minister or pastor over them ; neither can they as meerly such , by any call , election , or ordination whatsoever , conferre a pastorall office or dignitie upon any man. the reason is , because it is an essentiall propertie or part of the pastorall office , to feed , rule , and governe a flock of christs sheep a , ( i meane a societie , or company of such persons , who in the judgement of charitie are to be reputed such ) and to administer the seales of the covenant ordinarily unto them , &c. now no company of men , meerly and simply as men , have any power to invest any man , with any authoritative power to performe either of those administrations . one company or societie of men however qualified , cannot derive any authoritative power upon any man , to performe the office of a pastor to another societie of men . therefore except that company of men , which calls and chuseth a person into the place or office of a pastor ( as it supposeth ) be such a flock of christ as was expressed , their act in so calling and chusing , is but a nullitie ; the person called hath indeed and in truth no pastorall investiture upon him by vertue of such a call . as for example ; suppose a company of ignorantly prophane , and desperately debauch'd men , should make choyce of a man of worth , to be a pastor unto them ; the man thus called and chosen , hath no authoritie or power hereby , either to feed or govern any flock of christ , ( no , not so much as any flock of christ in appearance ) or to administer the seales of the covenant unto any ; and consequently is made no pastor thereby . or if mr. prynnes meaning be , that a root meerly popular , that is , any company of people whatsoever , may lawfully call or chuse a man to preach the gospel unto them , and in this sense be said to make a minister ; i answer ; that the man thus called , is no more a minister then he was before ; nor hath he any more authoritative power to preach the gospel unto them , by vertue of such a call , then he had without it ; onely he hath thereby a greater opportunitie , and a more speciall invitation from the providence of god to preach the gospel unto those who so call him , then unto others . therefore in this case there is no ministeriall extraction made out of a meere popular roote . 4. whereas he speaks parables , and further demands , why not a spirituall extraction out of a secular roote , as well as the best strong waters out of the vilest lees ? the richest mineralls out of the coursest earth ? the most orient pearles out of the basest oysters ? i answer , 1. that i know not by what rule of true speaking , mr. prynne either calls those the basest oysters , out of which the most orient pearls , or that the coursest earth , out of which the richest mineralls , or those the vilest lees , out of which the best strong waters are extracted . that expression of the poet , — veios habitante camillo , — 〈◊〉 roma fuit , i never yet heard censured by any . noble births and inhabitants , ennoble cities and countries . and thou bethlehem in the land of juda , art not the least among the princes of juda : for out of thee shall come a governor that shall rule my people israel . by the consent of this principle , which hath testimony both from god and men , those are not the basest , but the noblest oysters , which give birth and breeding to the most ortent pearles ; nor that the coursest , but the finest and best earth , that yeelds the richest mineralls ; nor those the vilest , but the most generous and best deserving lees , which gratifie their distillator with the best strong waters . but 2. ( not to impose any tax upon an acyrologie ) there is this plain reason , why no spirituall extraction out of a secular roote , though all those other extractions may be made out of those respective roots appropriated unto them : because a man may very possibly find a thing where it is ; but it is unpossible for him to find it where it is not . a man may very easily and very lawfully extract five shillings out of his purse that hath five shillings , or more , in it : but he that shall undertake to make an extraction of five shillings , out of a purse that is emptie , must acheronta movere , make himself a debtor to the black art . the pearle is in the oyster , and the minerall in the earth , and the strong water in the lee : and therefore it is no great matter for art and nature joyning together , partly by allurement and invitation , partly by a stronger and more forcible hand , to sequester all these from their native and proper elements , and to draw them out of their dark and secret habitations . nor is it any waies unlawfull thus to practise upon them , because god hath not serv'd any prohibition upon men , to inhibite any such extractions or separations , either in a naturall or artificiall way . but there is no such spirituall extraction as the two brethren speak of , in their secular roote : there is no ecclesiasticall legislative power in matters of religion , worship , and church-government , neither formally , nor eminently , in unsanctified persons , rude multitudes , men ignorant of god , &c. therefore no such power can by any extraction whatsoever , proceed or be drawne out of these . there is indeed a lawfulnesse of power in them ( if they had a principle to incline them to the due exercise of it ) to assist the servants of god against violence and wrong , to incourage and countenance them in well-doing , to admonish and reprove them for doing any such evill which falls within the compasse of their cogniance ; yea , there is a lawfulnesse of power in them , if they have not given it out of their hands already , and invested others with it , to make lawes for the regulation of the saints themselves , in all their civill affaires , and to restraine them by mulcts and penalties from all such courses , actions , and practices , which are properly and in their natures disserviceable unto the common peace , and weal-publick : and all such power as this , they may lawfully devise , and demise unto persons meet for the manage and exercise of it ; because in this case they doe but give of their own ; yea , they give it in a regular and rationall way ; upon which termes god hath given unto every man a liberty or power to doe with his owne what he pleaseth a . but the persons we now speak of , never had a power of regulating the saints in their religious or spirituall affairs ; or of compelling them under temporal mulcts and penalties , to order themselves in the worship and service of god , as they pleased , or to preach and teach onely such points and doctrines amongst them , as they should think well of . therefore how they should convey or make over any such power as this unto others , by a title or conveyance good in law , i desire mr. prynne to consider . if his desire had been to have paralleld the brethrens spirituall extraction out of a secular root , with naturall comparisons or similitudes , he should have done it not with those which hee hath made use of in this kind , or the like ; for we have shewed a manifest and main disproportion in them ; but with these , and such as these which follow : why not a spirituall extraction out of a secular root , as well as a man out of a mouse , or of water out of a flint , or of the element of fire out of the midst of the sea ? he might rationally enough have argued and concluded here ; why not the one as well as the other ? but 5. whereas his margine demandeth , why not a spirituall extraction out of a secular root , as well as himselfe extracts many spiritual doctrines out of gamaliels secular speech ? my answer is , that hee hath made this demand at the perill of his owne reputation in what he had said but in the former page , where he supposeth , that god powred out a spirit of prophesie upon gamaliel , as hee had formerly done upon balaam and saul , if gamaliel spake as the spirit of prophesie which was poured out upon him , gave him utterance , his speech was not secular , but spirituall and divine . and 2. suppose there was no spirit of prophesie upon gamaliel , when he spake that speech , from which i extract my doctrines ; yet the speech it selfe , being for the matter , tenor , and substance of it , nothing but what is fully agreeable to the undoubted word of god elsewhere , ( which i clearly demonstrate in the particular doctrine handled in those sermons ) it is not to be reputed secular , though the person speaking it had been secular ; but divine , because the matter of it being a truth of divine revelation elswhere , is divine . this saying , jesus christ is the sanne of god , or the holy one of god , is not , therefore a devilish saying , because the devill spake it a , but an holy or divine saying or sentence , because the truth contained in it , which is the matter of it , is from god. but 3. the person speaking it was ecclesiasticall , a doctor of the law , acts 5. 34. 4. and lastly , it was about matters of the church , and so ecclesiasticall also . 6. whereas in the context of the same margine , hee calls my principall argument ( as he calls it ) drawn from the non-jurisdiction of the seven churches of asia one over another , a meer independencie , giving this for the ground or reason of this so severe an award , that these churches were under different civill dominions , and not members of the selfe-same christian republicke ; i answer , 1. that why he should call this my principall argument , which i doe not so much as mention , nor make any argument at all ( as least in those sermons against which his pen riseth up in this discourse with so much indignation ) i am behind hand in my understanding . i suppose he would willingly make that my principall argument , from the dint whereof he knowes how to contrive some plausible evasion and escape . it was an wholsome admonition of austin long since , a that we are very inclinable and prone , rather to seeke out how to answer or evade those things which are brought to refute our error , then to minde that which is wholsome , that so wee may bee free from error . but 2. if that be a reason , why the churches in asia had no jurisdiction one over another , because they were not members of the selfe-same christian republicke ; then neither had the church of jerusalem either divisim , and by it selfe , nor yet conjuncti●● with others , any power of jurisdiction over the church of antioch . for neither were their churches members of the selfe-same christian republicke , no nor yet any other churches in the apostles dayes , there being then no christian republick in the world . 3. neither can i well understand how the seven churches of asia should be under different civill dominions , when as one and the same man had power to command that all the world should be taxed , luke 2. 1. certain i am , that mr. pryn doth not befriend either his owne exception , or my understanding so farre , as to inform what these different civill dominions were ; or under what or whose dominion every or any of these churches did respectively consist . the consideration whereof moderately inclines me to conceive , that he put this peece of his answer to the making , and affirmed it onely de bene esse , that the seven churches of asia were under different civill dominions . is it not much more probable , that the churches of jerusalem and antioch , which yet by the assertors of presbytery , are generally and with importune confidence made confederate in classique association , were under different civill dominions ? considering , 1. that their cities were two hundred miles distant one from the other ( a distance greater almost by an hundred miles , then any two of the seven churches of asia stood one from the other , as will appear presently . ) and 2. that judea was an intire province by it self , & luke 3. 1. is said to have been under the government of pontias pilate . so that subjection under different civill dominions , is not like to have been any obstruction in the way of those asian churches , to impede their presbyteriall conjunction , had they felt the weight either of divine institution , or of any christian accommodation of their respective affaires , lying upon them for the ingaging themselves in it . 4. and lastly , some that seeme to have perfect knowledge of those parts where these seven churches with their respective cities stood , affirme that some of them were not situate above twelve miles distance from some others of them ; and that the greatest distance between any two of them , was not above an hundred and twenty miles , which is not the one half of the distance between many churches in this kingdom . so that had the presbyteriall combination or subordination of churches been an ordinance of god , there is little question to be made , but that these churches with their respective angels , especially under such an opportunity , would have subjected themselves unto the will of god in this behalfe , and not have remained single and uncombined in their government , as they did . if it be objected , they were times of persecution ; wee answer , so were they afterward , when ( as men of the presbyterian way suppose ) they had presbyteries ; and after that when they had episcopall government . this hath been the case of the protestants in france , where they now have , & constantly have had , a presbyterial government . so it is of the papists in england , where they have had ever since the reformation , a papall jurisdiction . and to speak to the particular , so was it a time of persecution against the presbyteriall government in queen elizabeths time , and yet it was then exercised in severall places of this kingdome . see rogers preface to his analysis of the articles of religion . 6. whereas he seemes to require a reprievement for his opinion , onely till independents can shew him better grounds against it , then any yet produced ; and informe him why our representative church and state should not of right enjoy and exercise as great or ecclesiasticall jurisdiction over all particular persons and churches , who are members of our church and realm , as any independent minister or congregation challenge or usurp unto themselves over their own members , &c. my answer is , 1. that now i trust he will willingly surrender his opinion into the hand of justice , and plead no further for it . first , because though haply there have been no better grounds produced in this discourse against it , then have been formerly in others ; yet i cannot but conceive and judge , that better arguments and grounds against it , have been here produced , then mr. prynne hath had either the happinesse or opportunity to meet with elsewhere ; especially considering partly the frequencie of his complaint , that independents have given little or no account of their way in writing ; partly that it is a thing hardly consistent with mr. pryns abilities , being sweetned with so much ingenuity , not to see and acknowledge the delinquencie of such an opinion , in whose condemnation so full a jury of the first borne principles as well of reason as religion , as hath been here impannelled , doe conspire . and secondly , because information hath been given him again and again ( and more particularly in the eighth section , page 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. of this discourse ) why our whole representative church and state ; ( though i doe not clearly understand what he meanes by our representative church in this place ) but why the parliament and synod should not exercise as great or greater ecclesiastical jurisdiction over particular persons & churches within the realme , &c. as an independent minister and congregation ( for his disjunctive particle , or , turnes him quite out of the way of his question ) may exercise over their owne members . but 2. whereas he states the question thus : whether our representative church and state , may not exercise as great or greater ecclesiasticall jurisdiction over , &c. as an independent minister or congregation challenge or usurp unto themselves over their own members ; my answer is , that doubtlesse they may ; one unrighteous or unjust thing , may be as lawfully done as another every whit as unrighteous and unjust as it . for mr. prynne may please to take knowledge , that independent ministers and congregations doe not usurp any power at all unto themselves over their own members , that is , over themselves ; but onely administer that regular and lawfull power over and amongst themselves , which every of their respective members have mutually and freely given one to another , and every particular member unto the whole body , over it selfe , and that as well for its own benefit and behoofe , as for the benefit and good of the whole body . and lawfull ( questionlesse ) it is ( yea matter of duty ) for every man to give such a power of , or over himself , unto others , which he hath sufficient ground either from the scriptures , or reason otherwise , to conceive and expect that it will bee administred for his good ; especially having ground to conceive yet further , that this act of his , in thus submitting himselfe unto others , will according to the ordinary course of providence and experience , be of christian accommodation unto others also for their good . submitting your selves one to another in the feare of god , eph. 5. 21. which submission doubtlesse ought so farre to extend , as in reason it may accommodate , or promote the edification and spirituall good , both of the persons by whom , and to whom it is made . and by the same reason it is no usurpation in those , to whom the submission is made , to administer or exercise that power which is committed unto them , according to the regular intentions of those who have given it : yea , such an administration of it as this , is so farre from being an usurpation , that a non-administration of it upon such terms , would be a very unchristian prevarication both with god and men . therefore 7. ( and lastly , to conclude ) whereas mr. prynne referres me to the high court of parliament , either to crave their pardon , or to undergoe their justice , for my anti-parliamentarie passages , &c. i shall request no other favour of this most honourable court , then that i may stand right and streight in their opinions , and be respited from censure onely so long , till my accuser shall make good his charge against me by sufficient evidence and proofe ; and substantially answer and refute this my apologeticall plea. when the light of this day of darknesse shall dawne upon me , i shall willingly submit unto his demand , and either crave the pardon of that honourable and high court he speaks of , or otherwise undergoe their justice : in the meane season i presume he will subscribe my petition for a reprieve , as just and equall . and if the result of his more serious thoughts shall be , to resume and prosecute the bill of endictment which he hath preferr'd against me ; my earnest request unto him is , as well for his own ease and conveniencie , as mine , 1. that he will not argue from pluralities , but pertinences of scriptures ; and shew how , and wherein every text alledged , according to the genuine sense and rationall dependance of the words , stands by him in what he intends to prove from it . and 2. that he will not place the strength and confidence of his cause , either in humane authorities , humane practises , statutes or ordinances of men , excepting onely such , whose truth , justice and equitie he shall first demonstrate either from the word of god ; and that not by texts barely cited , chapter and verse , though in never such abundance ; but throughly argued , and examined upon the matter in question ; or els from sound principles of reason and equitie , managed in a cleare and rationall way , and so drawne up to a faire compliance with the conclusion , seeking testimony and proofe from them . for otherwise , what sayings , doings , lawes or ordinances of men soever shall be produc'd or insisted upon , for confirmation or proofe of any thing ; it will be sufficient to answer , that men as wise , as just , as vertuous as they , have both said and done , things neither true nor meet to be done ; and have made lawes and statutes of no better constitution ; yea , and have been of a contrary opinion to mr. prynne in the particular questioned : which made augustine often decline that way of reasoning , as we reade in his 48. epistle , and elsewhere . thirdly and lastly , that he would put lesse vinegar and gall into his inke , and more wooll or cotton : or ( in the apostles words , eph. 4. 31. ) that all bitternesse and evill speaking be put away , and that we follow the truth in love , and language that becometh brethren . this treble request i make unto him with much earnestnesse and importunitie upon the supposition aforesaid , because i had much rather yeeld , might i do it upon honourable and christian terms , then to be put to take the field yet againe . as for any opinion held by me , when once i perceive that it will not make knowledge , i am ready to give the right hand of fellowship unto any man in casting it out as unsavoury salt upon the dunghill . i never yet thought my self ( nor i hope ever shall ) such a debtor unto error , as to sacrifice my time , paines , occasions , credit , conscience , upon the service of it . but unto mr. prynne i shall willingly acknowledge my self a debtor , if he will either acquit me of my crime by silence , or deliver me from my error by his pen. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a85400-e380 a 1 cor. 15. 10. b 1 cor. 15. 8. c gal. 14. 16. amos 7. 10. mat. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. a rom. 11. 25. b auri sacra fames . 2 cor. 12. 5. 1 cor. 3. 15. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . phil. 4. 13. a heb. 10. 37 b rev. 22. 12 notes for div a85400-e1520 sect. 1. sect. 2. sect. 3. sect. 4. sect. 5. sect. 6. sect. 7. sect. 8. sect. 9. sect. 10. sect. 11. sect. 12. sect. 13. a 1 cor. 15. 14. sect. 14. sect. 15. sect. 16. sect. 17. sect. 18. sect. 19. sect. 20. sect. 21 sect. 22. sect. 23. a exod. 23. 25. deut. 6. 12 , 13. deut. 10. 12. & 11. 13. & 13. 14. & 30. 16. joih . 22. 5. & 24. 14. 23. b exod. 19. 8. & 24 3. deut. 5. 27. & 26. 17. josh . 24. 16 , 21 , 22 , 24. c exod. 20. 23. & 23. 24 , 32 , 33 deut. 5. 7 , 8 , 9 , & 6. 14. & 7. 5. 16. & 8. 19. & 12. 30. & 13. 2 , 3. & 29. 17 , 18. sect. 24. sect. 25. sect. 26. a mat. 19. 6. dan. 3. sect. 27. 1 tim. 5. 8. sect. 28. sect. 29. sect. 30. a gal. 2. 11. a where he chargeth mee to have presumptuously undermined the undoubted privileges of parliament , with i know not how many more anti-parliamentary passages diametrally contrary to my nationall vow and coveuant , &c. sect. 31. sect. 32. sect. 33. jam. 2. a page 18. b page . 24. c page 9. sect. 34. sect. 35. sect. 36. sect. 37. sect. 38. b rev. 1. 6. sect. 39. sect. 40. sect. 41. sect. 42. a mr jacob affirmeth , that for the space of 200. or 300. yeeres after christ , every visible church had power to exercise ecclesiasticall government , and all other gods spirituall ordinances ( the means of salvation ) in and for it self , immediatly from christ . sions prerogative , p. 28 , 29. a mar. 9. 39. a mr. prynne . full replies . p 74. b m. edwards antapol . p. 261. a twiss de scientia med . b ego ( inquit fons●ca ) in academia con●mbricensi , hoc primus observavi . imo potius ego ( clamat molina ) apud , eborenses meos . his non cedit leonardus lessius lovaniensis , & suo cer●bello , de codem partu ambitiosè gratulatur . prid. lect. 2. de scient . med . a see sions prerogdtive , almost throughout . a the civill magistrate arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of religion . a. s. in his observ . & annot. p. 5. and againe , p. 7. to grant them such a power ( viz. of judging questions in debate between the two parties in the assembly , speaking of the parliament ) were nothing else but to joyne your selves with the arminians , &c. a act. 9. 15. sect. 44. a many godly and learned ministers — even such as are their good friends , & tēder enough of them , &c p. 3. their friends & familiars , p. 4. that all the godly ministers of citie and countrey should carrie themselvs towards you w th love , respect , fairness , brotherly kindnes &c. et max : the ministers courted them by all waies of respect & oft high entertainment of them inloving speech , friendly coūtenance , familiar cōver sing , &c. p. 226 b i love their persons & value them as brethren , yea , some of them above brethren , and besides that love i bear to them as saints , i have a personall love , and a particular love of friendship to some of them , &c. epist . p. 7. sect. 45. sect. 46. a gravis enim est , & periculosus error in plurimis : & multorum lapsus , etiamsi se intelligat , exurgend pudore , authoritatem sibi praesumit , ex numero habens hoc impudentiae , ut quod errat , intelligentiā esse veritatis asserat , dùm minus error is esse existimatur in multu . hil. l. 6. a cum turpis est medicina , sanari pudeat . sect. 47. a postr●mò nō satis cā dide fac●ūt , ●ū invid . ose cōmemorāt , quātas turbas , tumultus , contentiones secū traxer●t nostrae doctrinae praedicatio , et quos nunc in multis fructꝰ crat . nā horū malorum culpa indignè in ipsa derivatur , quae in satanae militiā torquer● debuerat . et mox : haec certissima et inprim●● fidelis no tanquâ dis●●nt tursverbū à vi nū ) à medacibꝰ dactrinis , quae sefacile prodūt dum aequis on●niū auribꝰ recipiuntur , & à mūdo plaudēte aud●untur . b lutherus velu●● molum eridis misit in mūdum , cujus nuliam omninò partè non turba●ā video . erasm . l. 14. ep . 7. c pios hoc nomen & titulum in mundo oportet gerere , quòd seditiosiac schismatici ac infinitorū malorū authores sunt luth. in gal. 5. d hab. 2. 21. with heb. 12. 26 , 27. * mat. ●6 . 6 , 5 sect. 48. * act. 14. 11. a the new england catechisme , called the government of the church , compos'd by mr. cotton , and thrice printed . a guide unto sion . another small treatise , butful of learning , reading and strength , called , sions prerogative royall . the answer of the elders of the severall churches of new england to 32 questions , sent &c. another answer of the same elders to 9. other questions about church government . mr. thompson and mr. mathors answer to mr. charles herles independencie . mr. tho. welds answer to mr. w. rathbone ; besides many other treatises published upon this subject . sect. 49. sect. 50. a rom 14. 2 , 3 , 4. sect. 51. b 1 tim 6. 13. 17 , 18. 1 tim. 4. 11. &c. a it is not safe for any to receive matters of religion without terious examination . — who ever be the church , the authoritie of it , is not sufficient ; possibly the church may one and therefore we must flee to the throne of jesus christ the head of the church for satisfaction . whom shall we rather beleeve concerning god , then god himself ? if there were a councell of the most learned doctors that ever the world had , yea , if an assembly of angels yet in matters of religion , concerning the good way , the last resolution must be into thus saith the lord. mr. th. h●ll ( an high-resolved presbyterian ) in a sermon , staled the good old way , gods way , &c. ) preached before the l. maior , &c. apr. 24. 1●44 . pa. 16 , 17. sect. 52. sect. 53. sect. 54. sect. 55. sect. 56. a act. 19. 11. a due right of presbyteries part . 2. pag. 404. b mat. 15. 5. a luk. 7. 32. sect. 57. sect. 58. 2 king. 6. 20. a 1 king. 17. 6. sect. 59. a eaque ( majestas ) 〈…〉 quae in constanendâ ) & personalem , ( quae in administrandâ seu gubernandâ republicâ consistit ) dividi videtur . et meat majestas realis seu imper● , republicae est coaeva ; quamdiu corpus ejus durat , per manet : & etiam sub inter regnis & alterationibus persistit : quam ideò fundamentum republicae possu●● are . personalis conci●● cum personâ , & ad rempublicam redit . hujus majestatis 〈…〉 etiam post 〈◊〉 legem , populum romanum aliquam retinuesse dicitur majestatem . § 4. 〈…〉 c. l. 7. § 〈…〉 maj statem nostram . f. de captiv . & postium . l. 1. 〈…〉 majestatem publica ad l. iuliā majest . lex namque regia de personalis 〈…〉 is translatione intell g●debet : ego in tract . de monarchia cap. 4. num 4. ac 〈…〉 per eam populus potestatem administrationis , non constitutionis . et constat ex l. 2 § 1. 〈…〉 administrationem re publicae , non aliqu●d ultrà , imperatori datum esse . christoph . 〈…〉 dess●● politico 〈◊〉 de majestate , &c. sect. 1. p. 5. sect. 60. a act. 20. 28. 1 pet. 5. 2. sect. 61. mat. 2. 6. a mat. 20. 15. a mark. 1. 24. luke 4. 34. a procliviores sumus quaerere potiùs , quid contra ea respondeamus , — quae nostro objiciuntur errori , quàm intendere ea quae sunt salubria , ut careamus errore . sect. 64. a iust and temperate defence of the fiue books of ecclesiastical policie: written by m. richard hooker against an vncharitable letter of certain english protestants (as they tearme themselues) crauing resolution, in some matters of doctrine, which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of religion, and the church amongst vs. written by william covel doctor in diuinitie, and published by authority. the contents whereof are in the page following. covell, william, d. 1614? 1603 approx. 349 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 81 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-11 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a19460 stc 5881 estc s120909 99856102 99856102 21624 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a19460) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 21624) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1475-1640 ; 1134:2) a iust and temperate defence of the fiue books of ecclesiastical policie: written by m. richard hooker against an vncharitable letter of certain english protestants (as they tearme themselues) crauing resolution, in some matters of doctrine, which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of religion, and the church amongst vs. written by william covel doctor in diuinitie, and published by authority. the contents whereof are in the page following. covell, william, d. 1614? [8], 154 [i.e. 152] p. printed by p. short for clement knight, dwelling at the signe of the holy lambe in paules church-yard, at london : 1603. a reply to: a christian letter of certaine english protestants, unfained favourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in england: unto that reverend and learned man, mr r. hoo. the first leaf is blank except for signature-mark "a". p. 152 misnumbered 154. variant: title omits "and published by authority". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately 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markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hooker, richard, 1553 or 4-1600. -ecclesiastical polity -early works to 1800. puritans -controversial literature -early works to 1800. christian letter of certaine english protestants, unfained favourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in england: unto that reverend and learned man, mr r. hoo. -controversial literature -early works to 1800. 2003-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-07 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-08 rina kor sampled and proofread 2003-08 rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a ivst and temperate defence of the five books of ecclesiastical policie : written by m. richard hooker : against an vncharitable letter of certain english protestants ( as they tearme themselues ) crauing resolution , in some matters of doctrine , which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of religion , and the church amongst vs. written by william covel doctor in diuinitie , and published by authority . the contents whereof are in the page following . psalm . 112.6 . the righteous shall be had in an euerlasting remembrance . at london printed by p. short for clement knight , dwelling at the signe of the holy lambe in paules church-yard . 1603. the articles handled in this booke . 1 of the deity of the sonne of god. 2 of the coeternitie of the sonne , and the proceeding of the holy ghost . 3 whether the holy scriptures containe all things necessary to saluation . 4 whether the scriptures be aboue the church ? 5 of the nature and freedome of mans will. 6 of the vse of faith and good works . 7 whether god allow more then he commandeth . 8 of the vertue of good works . 9 none free from euery sinne , how from all ? 10 of predestination . 11 whether the church of rome be any part of the visible church ? 12 of preaching and sermons . 13 of the ministers office . 14 of the nature of the sacraments . 15 of christs institution of the sacraments . 16 of the necessitie of baptisme . 17 of transubstantiation . 18 of speculatiue doctrine , or sentences mistaken . 19 of caluin and the reformed churches . 20 of schoolemen , philosophie , reason , &c. 21 of the stile and maner of m. hookers writing . to the most reverend father in god , my verie good lord , the lord archbishop of canterburie his grace , primate , and metropolitan of all england . three principall causes ( right reuerend ) haue moued me to offer this small labour to your graces view : first , the iust respect of my particular dutie , which challengeth al parts of my labor , as a most thankefull acknowledgement of that seruice which i owe vnto you . secondly , the forme of our church gouernment , which imposeth a submitting of our labours , to the censure and allowance of those , to whom by right that charge belongeth ; wherein seeing your authoritie and care , next vnto our dread soueraigne , is , and is to bee esteemed greatest , i desire you to vouchsafe to giue that allowance , which your grace in your wisdome shall thinke fit . the last reason , is the person of him , who ( whilest he liued ) was aduanced , honoured , and esteemed by you ; and now being dead , his learning , and sinceritie , against the false accusations of others , challengeth a defence at your graces hand : for doubtlesse it is more right to vertue , to defend the deceased , then to aduance those that are liuing . this as reason , euer expecteth at the hands of vertue ; so especially then , when men of worth , of desert , of learning , are mistaken and accused , by those that doe want all . i craue to the rest of all your graces fauours , that this last may be added ; that whatsoeuer my imperfections are , in this iust and temperate defence , they may no way diminish the honourable remembrance of him , whom i doe defend : all allowance is his due ; the faults are mine ; for which in all humilitie , i craue pardon . your graces to bee commaunded , w. covel . to the reader . seeing we are all bound , in the dutifull respect of a common iust cause , euen to defend those who are strangers to vs ; it cannot seeme vnfit to any , if we affoord thē so much fauour , whose persons , and deserts are verie well knowne . there is no better contentment for our labour past , then in the assurance from our conscience , that it is well imployed : for doubtlesse the spurning at vertue , giueth a greater stroke to the doer , then to him that suffereth ; & yet euen that religion , that cōmandeth patience , forbiddeth not the iust defence of our selues in a good cause ; especially then , when by wronging a particular man , there may be some hazard of the truth it selfe . our church hath had some enemies , more openly discontent in the case of discipline , then they now appeare ; whom to satisfie with reason , maister hooker indeuoured with much paines ; that which might haue contented all , was in diuers , a spurre to a more violent choler : for medicines how profitable soeuer , worke not equally in all humours . from hence proceeded a desire in some , to make question of things , whereof there was no doubt , and a request for resolution , of some points , where in there was no danger : to this end a letter ( which heere is answered ) was published by certaine protestants ( as they tearme themselues ) which i heare ( how true i know not ) is translated into other tongues ; this they presume hath giuen that wound , to that reuerend and learned man , that it was not the least cause to procure his death . but it is farre otherwise ; for he contemned it in his wisdome ( as it was fit ) and yet in his humilitie would haue answered it , if he had liued . surely for mine owne part , i neuer thought it conuenient that the grauity of this present businesse , and the reuerend worthinesse of him that is accused , should not be answered with grauitie both of person and speech ; and my witnesses are both in heauen and earth , how iustly i can excuse my selfe , as elihu did : behold , i did wait vpon the word of the ancient , and harkened for their knowledge : i stayed the time , and a long time , vntill some elder and of viper iudgement , might haue acquited me from all opinion of presumption in this cause ; which being not done by thē , whom many reasons might haue induced to this defence , i could not for that part which i beare in that church , whose gouernment was defended by maister hooker , with patience endure so weake a letter anie longer to remaine vnanswered . and herein i haue dealt as with men ( although to me vnknown ) of some learning and grauitie , to whom peraduenture in manie respects i am farre inferiour ; and yet for anie thing that i know , or appeareth in this letter , they may bee clothed with the same infirmities that i am . but if this had beene by himselfe performed ( which i heare he hath done , and i desire thee to expect it ) thy satisfaction ( gentle reader ) would haue beene much more , yet vouchsafe in thy kindnesse , to accept this . the authours preface . little hath labour done , to make any man excellent , if vertue haue not as much power to make it continue : neither were it anie honour , to deserue well , if our memories might die with our names ●or our names be buried , as often ●s malice , or enuie doth seeke to hide them . fewe things are eminently good , which are indured amongst distempered iudgements without bitter reprehension ; for where weakenesse hath not strength enough to imitate , and reuerence that vertue which it feareth ; it hath violence and malice sufficient to detract from that vertue which it hateth . amongst euill persons , as there be fewe things that are good , in themselues ; so there be not manie things which they are willing should appeare good in others ; for vertue , where it is not followed , must either be dispraised , or our negligence shall want excuse . and whatsoeuer hath the power to conuince , must suffer reproofe , where the heart of man wanteth humilitie to giue obedience . the worlds greatest errour , is in esteeming , when our corruptions making vs ambitious to seeme , whilest we are carelesse to be , winneth allowance from a fond opinion , which the streame of violent fancies , denieth to rest vpon those that are truly vertuous . because for anie man to oppose himselfe , against that euill which is growne heady , either by custome , or patience , is to hazard much of himselfe , if he be strong ; and in the opinion of many vndoubtedly to perish , if he be weake . and therefore as vice hath euer had mo that did dislike it , then durst dispraise it ; so vertue wil euer haue mo that are willing to allow it in their iudgements , then dare aduenture to interpose themselues , for the defence of that which they do allow . iealousie making those to depraue , euen the very defence of that , which their owne iudgements did thinke worthy , and their wishes desired , might be defended . for to do that which euerie man accounteth his own duty , as it argueth oftentimes more strength then courage ; so amongst many , it reapeth little else but an opinion of singularitie . from this corrupt fountaine ( a fountaine poisoned by malicious ignorance ) haue flowed these bitter , but small streames , which the importunitie of some mens commendations ( arising out of a blind loue ) haue made for power and greatnesse , like the red sea , to drown ( as they say ) pharaoh and all his host . let them perish in it without helpe , beaten downe with that hand , that striketh from aboue , who seeke to hold israel a seruant in egypt , or captiue in the house of bondage : but let them passe through without harme , who couragiously haue freed the posterity of iacob , and led israel to the land of promise . i doubt not but without a miracle , a man of small stature may goe through these waters and not bee drowned ; yet sometimes the most righteous , may say with dauid , the ouerflowing of vngodlinesse made me afraid . deceit vsually couereth with a mask ( better then the face ) that euill which it desireth should kill vnseene and vnpreuented : but errour cannot more easily fall , then when it is built vpon such a foundation ; nor weaker opinions sooner vanish , then when they are bred , nourished , & supported , onely with the strength of fancie . it is of small vse in the church ( though a thing practised in al ages ) for men ouer-curiously to labour to remoue those staines , which like an impure breath , darken the glasse of steele , whilest it is warme , but slide off through their owne weakenesse , hauing no power to make any deeper impression , then onely aire . any cloth in a hand of no skill , or strength , is able to wipe off , with ease , those blots , or marks , that are stained with no greater force , or vertue , but a hote breath . but seeing the reputation that vertue challengeth , and industrious labour seasoned with discretion doth merit , seeketh rather to gaine an approbation , from the iudgement of the wise , then recompence or reward , from the mightie hand of the rich ; men of vertuous desert in all ages ( euen from the lowest step of humilitie & obedience ) haue with confidence , and truth , taught the world a far better iudgment , by their wise apologies ; and haue gained as much honour in remouing euill , as they haue gotten vertue vnto their names , in doing wel . the malice of enuie out of impatient ignorance , doing vertue this benefit , that that which was cleare before , by a few , light , trifling spots , gaineth a wiping , to make it clearer . desert and goodnesse , being effects of a first motion ; perfection and excellencie the worke of a second maker . it must needs seeme strange to many , and be vnpleasing to all , that are of any sober , indifferent , or vertuous disposition , that the iust defence of a present , religious , ecclesiasticall policie , vndertaken without bitternesse of spirit , in a graue moderation to reforme presumption , and informe ignorance , should so farre taste , of the eagernesse of some vnlearned pennes ; that iudgement , should be thought too weake , to answer idle wordes ; or vertue not strong enough to withstand malice ; or lastly , that he could want a defence , whose endeuour ( as himselfe professeth ) was not so much to ouerthrow them , with whom he contended , as to yeeld them iust , and reasonable causes , of those things , which for want of due consideration , heretofore they haue misconceiued ; sometimes accusing lawes , for mens ouersights ; sometimes imputing euils growne , through personall defects , to that which is not euill ; framing to some sores vnwholsome plaisters ; and applying remedies sometimes where no sores were . it is much easier to answer those shadowes of reason , wherein these admonishers do please themselues ; then by their silence to make them confesse , that they are fully answered . for as they know not ( for the most part ) well how to speake , sauing only tinkers musick , like sounding brasse , because they want charitie ; so do they lesse know how to hold their peace , like clamorous frogs , because they want humilitie . holy pretences haue euer beene the strongest motiues that pride hath ; and zeale , how preposterous and ignorant so euer , hath beene deemed reason sufficient to some men , in the opinion of their followers , to warrant & defend whatsoeuer they haue done . vpon this ground , was published , some few articles in manner of a letter , in the yeare 1599. requiring resolution in matters of doctrine , concerning some points , which either they misconceiue , or list not to vnderstand , vttered by m. hooker , in those fiue learned , and graue books of ecclesiasticall policie ; wherin , it must needs appeare , that their ignorant malice , hath done him great honour ; who in an argument so distasted by them , and comming with a proud confidence to reprehend , haue only carped sillily , at some few things , neither of moment , nor importance , whereof humilitie , and charitie , would haue craued no answer . but these being willing , and desirous , to find somewhat to oppose , haue onely discouered ▪ his great , mature , and graue iudgement , and their owne small , vndigested , and shallow learning . for there is nothing , that can better , both excuse , and commend a workman , thē to see enuie desirous to reprehend , and reprehension to vanish in his owne smoke . for ( saith the wiseman ) * all such as regarded not wisedome , had not onely this hurt , that they knew not the things that were good , but also left behind them , vnto men a memoriall of their foolishnesse ; so that in the things wherein they sinned , they could not lie hid ; yet the people see and vnderstand it not , and consider no such things , in their hearts , * how that grace and mercie is vpon his saints , and his prouidence ouer the elect . for as he himselfe well noted ; as to the best , and wisest ( while they liue ) the world is continually a froward opposite , a curious obseruer of their defects , and imperfections ; so their vertues , it afterwards as much admireth . those , whom we must make aduersaries in this cause , are men , not knowne either by name , religion or learning ; yet such as would seem , in zeale to the present state , to desire a resolution in some points that might otherwise giue offence . it may be peraduenture the worke of some one , who desirous to gaine an opinion amongst his followers , vndertaketh to speake as from the minds of many , hoping those demaunds ( how idle soeuer ) will gaine answer , being to satisfie a multitude , which no doubt m. hooker in his wisdome , patience , and grauity , would easily haue contemned , if they had but beene the priuate cauils , and obiections of some one . for there is no man but thinketh , manie , how light so euer , in themselues , being vnited , may haue that weight , to chalenge euen by a ciuill right , a direct answer , from one euerie way farre better then had beene fitting , for their modestie , & weaknesse to prouoke . well ; whosoeuer they are , as i cannot easily coniecture , so i am not curious to knowe ; this age hath affoorded an infinite number , whom superstitious feare , for want of true vnderstanding , and an ignorant zeale , not directed with discretion , haue made violent in matters of religion , vsing the razor in steed of a knife , and for hatred of tares oftentimes pulling vp good corne . but with these we will deale , with that temperate moderation , as may serue , to giue true worthinesse , a iust defence ; and impatient and furious spirits ( vnlesse desperately violent ) no iust cause to find themselues to be grieued with vs. this which wee are to answer , is tearmed by them , a christian letter of certaine english protestants , vnfained fauorers of the present state of religion , authorised , and professed in england ; vnto that reuerend , and learned man , m. richard hooker . thus the humilitie , and mild temper of their superscription , may peraduenture gaine the reading at some mens hands , through an opinion , that protestants ; and manie ; and in a christian letter ; would hardly be caried with violence so far , to make demaunds , seasoned with so little modestie , learning , or vnderstanding . these men , they may be ( as we take the word largely ) protestants for anie thing that i know ; that is , men outwardly of the christian religion ; who liue and professe a doctrine , for the most part opposite to the church of rome ; but i can hardly be perswaded , that the letter being wholy an vnciuill ironie , is either christian , or that themselues , are vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion ; or that they thinke m. hooker to be either reuerend , or learned in their opinions . for whatsoeuer they may pretend , in vrging the reuerend bishops of our church against his assertions ; as though they ascribed much vnto them ; yet their desire is , to make an opposition appeare , and in that shewe of contradiction , to make themselues sport , & in the end proudly and maliciously to contemne both . but saint iames telleth these , that if anie man seeme religious , and refraine not his tongue , but deceiueth his owne heart , this mans religion is vain . and in this i appeale to the censure of the most modest and discreet amongst themselues , by what shew of reason , they could tearme that letter to bee christian , wherein were contained so many vnseasoned and intemperate speeches ? or that man to be either reuerend , or learned , whom they haue vsed with so little respect , and accused of so manie defects ? but doubtlesse , as they neuer thought him to be either reuerend , or learned ( whom all that knew him , whilest he liued knew to be both ) so they little desired , that their letter should be such a one , as might worthily be accounted christian. * else what meane these accusations , to account his goodly promises , meere formall , and great offers to serue only , to hoodwink such , as mean wel ; as though by excellency of words , and intising speeches , of mans wisedome , he ment a as they say to beguile , and bewitch the church , of god. a little after b they call him a goodly champion , and by the sweet sound , of your melodious stile , almost cast into a dreaming sleepe ; which stile notwithstanding afterwards , they account not c vsual , but long , and tedious ; far differing from the simplicity of holy scripture ; and a d hard , and harsh stile : for the manner of the stile , we shall make our defence , when we answere that article . but in that , you scoffingly account him a goodly champion , giue me leaue to tell you , that if our church were throughly furnished with such men , the holy function of our calling , had not growne in contempt by ignorant and vnlearned ministers ; our peace had not bin troubled with furious and violent spirits : worldly men , had not seazed vpon the church , with such eagernes , through an opinion of the vnworthines of the clergie : they of the church of rome , had not thus long remained obstinate , through the violent proceedings of vndiscreet men , whose remedies were worse then the disease it selfe : nor last of all , the generall amendment of life ( the fruite of our preaching ) had not bin so small , if these turbulent heads , had not more desired , to make hypocrits , then truely religious . it is much safer to praise the dead , then the liuing , hauing seene the period of their dayes expired ; a when neither he that is praised , can be puffed vp , nor he that doth praise can be thought to flatter , hee was , as saint austine sayd of saint cyprian * , of such desert , of such a courage , of such a grace , of such a vertue , that as theodosius sayd of s. ambrose , i haue known ambrose , who alone is worthy to be called a bishop ▪ of whom i dare giue that iudgement ( though he were in true estimation great already ) which antigoras , gaue of pirrhus , that he would haue bin a very great man , if he had bin old . great in his own vertues , of great vse in the church , & in al app●rance , ( though these times be vnthankefull ) of great authoritie . i let passe those other tearmes , which shew your letter to bee vnchristian , vntill we come to their particular answers ; and thus much for the title . it hath bin , no new thing in all ages , that reprehension hath waited vpon those books , which zeale ▪ from a vertuous minde , hath written to support the truth ; for the nature of man is much apter to reproue others , then reforme it selfe ; seeing to see faults in others , is an act of the vnderstanding if they bee ; and of a frowardnes of the will if they be not : but to rectifie them in ourselues must be the worke of a cleare vnderstanding and a reformed will ; therfore vsually men practise themselues , what they punish in others ; so that no man can directly conclude , a that all men hate what they do accuse . therefore saint b hierom , of whome saith s. austin ( no man knew that whereof s. hierom was ignorant ) oftentimes complaineth of the detractions , slaunders , and vntrue accusations of euill men . these , for the most part , are vnstaid , violently caried with the current of the present time , sometimes bitterly either vpon discontentments , or to please others , inueighing against those , whom themselues before out of flattery , not iudgement , haue highly praised . thus c libanius the sophister , who was eloquent against the christians , to please iulian , was noted with this marke of leuity , for writing panegyricks , or orations of praise , to commend constantius , while he liued , against whome afterward he wrote most bitter inuectiues when he was dead . thus some small discontentment serued to turne the heart , and open the mouth of porphyry against the christians : what cause of griefe these zealous professours haue i know not , but in my opinion , the whole tenor of that vncharitable and vnchristian letter , argueth some inward discontent , either enuious that other men should be excellent , or that themselues being excellent , are not more regarded . wherein though they dislike , the dim eie of gouernment , that loketh not cleerely into mens vertues , and the niggardly hand , that doth not bountifully reward such , as deserue well ; yet they mighte out of patience , and charity , worthily haue forborne , to haue inueied against his honour , which consisted in no other wealth , but in his religious contentment , and in that true commendation , which was the due merit of his own vertues . for b the world had not much to take from him , because hee had not taken much from the world ; for he neuer affected , flatteringly to please her , nor she neuer cared fauninglie to please him . for as c all that scipio brought ▪ from africa , after his danger , and trauell , to be called his , was only a surname ; so the greatest recompense , that his labours had , was the iust commendation , that he was a very reuerend , learned and graue man. for his iudgement taught him out of a christian patience , the resolution of cato , if d i haue anie thing to vse , i vse it ; if not , i know who i am . and seeking to profit in knowledge , and that this knowledge might profit the church ; he shewed that hee was borne for the good of many , and few to bee borne for the good of him . for as s. hierom speaketh of nepotian , e despising gold , he followed learning , the greatest riches . but peraduenture his learning had puft him vp ; and his pride had made his writings , impatient , and full of bitternes ; and this moued you , to vndertake , this vncharitable and vnchristian letter ; for you say if we beleeue them ( meaning the bishops ) we must thinke , that master hooker is verie arrogant , and presumptuous , to make himselfe the onely rabbi . that you had no cause , to prouoke him , in these tearmes , all men know that do reade his writings ; for dealing in an argument of that kinde , with aduersaries , of that nature ; and in a time growne insolent by sufferance ; hee hath written with that temperat moderation , rather like a graue father to reforme the vnstayed errors , of hot , young , violent spirits , then seuerelie correcting them with the vntemperat bitternes of their owne stile ; and sighing at the scurrilous and more then satyricall immodesty of martinisme , he feared with a true sorrow , least that honourable calling of priesthood , which was ruinated by slaunder amongst ourselues , could not long continue firme in the opinion of others . well , for all this the gouernment of his passions , was in his owne power , as a saint bernard speaketh of malachie the bishop . and he was able to rule them ; for he was truly of a milde spirit , and an humble hart , and abounding in all other vertues ; yet he specially excelled in the grace of meekenes : for the grauity of his lookes , as b saint bernard speaketh of humbers , was cleered by those that did sit , or conuerse with him ; least he should be burdensome vnto them ; but a ful laughter , few euer discerned in him . some such our church hath had in all ages ; a few now aliue , which are her ornament , if shee can vse them well ; but moe that are dead , whome she ought to praise . for all those were honourable men , in their generations , and were well reported of , in their times ; there are of them , that haue left a name behind them , so that their praise shall be spoken of , for whose posterity , a good inheritance is reserued , and their seede is conteined in the couenant ; their bodise are buried in peace , but their name liueth for euermore ; the people speake of their wisedome , and the congregation talke of their praise . in this number vertue hath placed him , whom you accuse ; and are not afraid , being now awaked out of a dreame , to account a deceiuer . as though in his labours he had meant by intising speech , to deceiue the church ; or as though by a colourable defēce of the church discipline , he purposed ( as you say ) to make questionable , and to bring in contempt the doctrine , and faith it selfe ; beating against the heart of all true christian doctrine , professed by her maiestie , and the whole state of this realme . therfore you haue made choice of the principall things conteined in his bookes ; wishing him to free himselfe from all suspicion of falshoode and trechery ; accounting your selues to rest contented , if he will shew himselfe , either all one in iudgement , with the church of england , or else freely and ingenuously acknowledge ; his vnwilling ouersight ; or at the least shew plainely by good demonstratiō , that al our reuerend fathers haue hitherto bin deceiued ▪ to this you craue a charitable , direct , plaine , sincere , and speedy answeare ; this is the summe of the preface to your christian letter . it is too true that al ages haue had deceiuers ; and that the most dangerous deceiuers , haue strongly preuailed vnder pretence of religion ; and therefore whereas all bodies are subiect to dissolution , there are vndoubtedly mo estates ouerthrown , through diseases within themselues , which familiarly do steale vpon them , then through violence from abroade . because the maner is alwaies , to cast a doubtfull , and a more suspicious eie , towards that , ouer which men know they haue least power ; & therfore the feare of apparant dangers , causeth their forces to be more vnited ; it is to all sorts a kind of bridle ; it maketh vertuous minds watchful ; it holdeth contrary dispositions in suspence ; and imployeth the power of all wits ; and the wits of all men , with a greater care . whereas deceits couered with good pretenses , are so willingly interteyned , so little feared , & so long suffered , vntill their cruelty burst forth , when it is too late , to cure them ▪ vice hath not a better meanes to disperse it selfe , nor to gaine intartainment , and fauour , then by borrowing the counterfeit name , and habit , of seeming vertue . a thus that rebellious sandracot vnder pretence of liberty , mooued the indians , against the officers of alexander the great ; which when they had slaine , he that was the author of their liberty , turned that into a more cruell bondage , oppressing the people whom he had freed from strangers , vnder the cruell tyranny of his owne gouernment . but of all deceits , there is none more dangerous , then when the name of god , or religion is pretended , to countenance out heinous crimes . and howsoeuer euen in this kinde , this age hath not wāted examples , who beeing dangerous vnder holy pretenses , the hand of iustice hath cut off ; yet the imputation of this fault , can in no reason cleaue to him , who hath so far hazarded himselfe , for the iust defence of religion , and church gouernement . if hee had broched any new fancies , or proudly opposed the wise established discipline ; there had bin some reason to haue suspected , that by intising speech he had meant to deceiue the church . but seeing hee hath laboured in a waighty cause , with reasons , against those , whom the magistrats seuerity could not easily suppresse ; seeing he hath vndertaken it by appointment ; and performed it with allowance ; and seeing he hath made no other shew of supporting popery , but only by resisting puritans ; the slaunder must needs be too light , and the accusation without color , to say that he hath beaten against the heart of al true christian doctrine , professed by her maiestie , & the whole state of this realme : as though ( which you desire the world might beleeue ) the hart of christian religion , were only amongst such , whom the affectation of singularity hath tearmed by the name of puritans : and that the rest who are not of that temper , are dangerous , and close hereticks . thus appollinarius the yonger , who wrote so much in defence of the christian faith , that saint basil said of him , that with his volumes he had filled the whole world ; and wrote against rauing and frantick porphury , thirty bookes , more excellent then any other of his workes ; was afterward accused that he held the error of the millenaries , that into the trinity he had brought , great , greater , and greatest of all ; that he thought not right of the incarnation of christ : but seeing theophilus bishop of alexandria , who was an enemy vnto him , & diuers other authors besides , report that he was vehement , to confute the arrians , eunomians , origenists , and many other hereticks , in many volumes , it may be thought whatsoeuer his other errors were , the malice of his aduersaries had forged this , to diminish the authority of those bookes , which hee had written against them . so that this practise is no new thing , to diminish the soundnes of their religion , whose iudgements , and reasons we are vnable to withstand . but i doubt not by that which followeth , but it shall easily bee made to appeare , that he is of the same iudgement with the church of england ; that he hath not committed any ouersight ; nor that he goeth not about to contradict , the reuerend fathers of our church ; which things ( in al likeliehood ) are matters by al you much desired ; and therefore i hope you will accept ( as you desire ) this charitable , direct , plaine , and sincere answere ; which no doubt of it , from himselfe had bin far more learned and more speedy , if he could either haue resolued to haue don it , or after he had resolued could haue liued , to haue seene it finished . but first of all , he was loth to entermeddle with so weake aduersaries ; thinking it vnfit ( as himselfe said ) that a man that hath a long iourney , should turne backe to beate euerie barking curre ; and hauing taken it in hand , his vrgent and greater affaires , together with the want of strength , weakened with much labour , would not giue him time to see it finished . yet a his mind was stronger then his yeares , and knew not well how to yeeld to infirmitie . wherein if hee had , somewhat fauoured himselfe , he might peraduenture , haue liued to haue answered you ; to the benefite of the church , and the comfort of a great number . but b death hath done what hee could ; it hath killed his bodie , and it is laid vp in the heart of the earth ; it hath taken from vs , and from the church of god , a sweete friend , a wise counsellour , and a strong champion : so that i may say , as it was sometimes said of demosthenes : demosthenes is meete for athens , demades ouergreat . others fit enough to liue in the midst of errour , vanitie , vnthankfulnesse , and deceit , but hee too good . for he was as the morning starre , in the middest of a cloud , and as the moone when it is full ; and as the sunne shining vpon the temple of the most high , and as the rainebowe that is bright in the faire cloudes ; when he put on the garment of honour , and was clothed with all beautie , hee went vp to the holy altar ; and made the garment of holinesse honourable . but this ought to content vs , that the soules of the righteous , are in the hand of god , and no torment shall touch them : in the sight of the vnwise they appeared to die , and their end was thought grieuous , and their departing from vs destruction , but they are in peace . article i. of the deity of the sonne of god. al points in diuinitie , are not of the like easinesse of apprehension . for in some , the dimme light of nature not wholy darkened , can giue a reason of that wee doe ; as well as faith out of precept , doth warrant what wee doe beleeue . and therefore the gentiles both before , and after the lawe , were to themselues a kind of lawe , euen by the light of nature , not to doe all those thinges that they did desire , but they had a thing in their hearts , equiualent to the law in respect of forbidding , because they could accuse and excuse themselues , hauing the witnesse of their conscience present with them . thus the effect of all the commandements , was in the iewes before the lawe , and in the gentiles who had not the law , giuen vnto them . thus the first commuandement was in terah , abrahams father , which was the reason of his departure from vr of the chaldees , to goe into the land of canaan . and afterwards in iacob when hee departed out of labans house ; aboue foure hundred yeares before the lawe was giuen : so the second commandement in rachel ; the third in abraham to his seruant : the fourth had a precept in the creation : the fift for honouring his parents , euen in esau : the sixt in cain , who knew the greatnesse of that euill , which hee had committed , that slew his brother : feare making him , out of a guiltie conscience , to denie that , which loue before had not power enough to teach him to forbeare . the seuenth , in the hatred of the sinne of sichem ; which iacob though he allowed not to be rightly punished , yet he did not approue as to be well done . the eight , euen in egypt , which made ioseph to say , what act is that you haue done ? when the cup of pharaoh was found in the sacke of beniamin . the ninth , when iudah feared the witnesse of thamar . the last in abimelech for taking the wife of abraham , where the vision did not so much tell him it was a sinne ( which hee knew by nature ) as that she was another mans wife . now in these things which were obserued before the morall law , some were of more apparant dislike , euen in the opinion of the heathen , who had no other direction but the light of nature ; as the third , fift , sixt , seuenth , eight , and ninth commandements . for the egyptians had a lawe ; sweare not least thou die . and this was punished in the twelue tables of the romans . for the fift , homer saith of one that had a misfortune , it was because hee honoured not his parents . for the sixt , nature hath made the murderer to expect what he hath committed . for the seuenth , flie the name of an adulterer , if thou wilt escape death . for the eight , demosthenes against timocrates repeateth it as solons law , plainely in the verie words . and for false witnesse , the romans did punish it by their twelue tables . but the incarnation of christ , the sacraments , the trinitie , the decree of god , are matters of a deeper speculation ; wherin humilitie must follow the direction of faith , and not seek vainely with curiositie to know that , which our silly weaknesse , is far vnable to comprehend . for * as those things that are manifest are not to bee neglected , so those things that are hid , are not to be searched ; least in the one we be vnlawfully curious , and in the other be found daungerously vnthankfull . now specially for the matter of the trinitie , wherein you take exception in your two first articles ; doubtlesse a there are few errours more dangerous , or that haue stirred vp greater tragedies in the church of god. all men see in nature , that there is a god ; but the distinction of persons , trinitie in vnitie , that faith in humilitie must teach vs to beleeue . for who can comprehend by reason , that in that holy , and sacred trinitie , one is what three are , and that two is but one thing ; and in themselues and euerie particular infinite ; and all in euerie one , and euerie one in all , and all in all , and one in all . fire hath three things , motion , light and heat ; arrius deuide this if thou canst , and then deuide the trinitie . out of this difficultie , together with the rash presumption of ignorant men , haue proceeded those dangerous errours , that so long , and so hotly haue troubled the church ; thus the manichies haue denied the vnitie of essence ; the valentinians ( or gnostici ) from carpocrates , held that christ was man onely , from both sexes borne , but that he had such a soule , which knew all things that were aboue , and snewed them . those that haue in their erronious doctrine oppugned the trinitie , are of two sorts ; they haue either denied the distinction of persons , or else the samenesse of essence ; thus the arrians ( for we will not stand to incounter or confute all other heresies ) held that christ was a person before his incarnation , but that he was true , and eternall god , equall , and of the same essence , with his father , that they denied ; for they hold that the sonne is not eternally begotten , of the substance of his father , and so that there is an inequalitie , and indeed a distinction , and prioritie of essence . into this dangerous , and ignorant blind heresie , confuted long since with powerfull and strong reasons , it seemes you are of opinion that maister hooker is fallen , both against the truth , and against the true assertions , of the reuerend fathers of our church . the ground of this so great and so vncharitable accusation , is because he saith , that the father alone , is originally that deitie , which christ originally is not . where you seem to inferre , against the distinction of the trinitie , that the godhead of the father , and the sonne cannot bee all one , if the sonne be not originally that deitie . it seemes then in your opinions , that this speech vttered verie learnedly , and with great wisedome , and truth ; the father alone is originally that deitie which christ originally is not , is both vnusuall , new , and dangerous . first , because it weakeneth the eternitie of the sonne , in the opinion of the simple , or maketh the sonne inferiour to the father in respect of the godhead , or else teacheth the ignorant that there may be many gods. i know your owne christian iudgements , could easily haue freed him from all suspicion of error in this point ; if your charity had bin equall to your vnderstanding : for he himselfe hath confessed in the very same place , from whence you haue taken this , wherof you accuse him ; that by the gift of eternall generation , christ hath receiued of the father , one and in number the selfe same substance ; which the father hath of himselfe vnreceiued from any other . who seeth not , saith s. augustine , that these words father , and son , shew not the diuersities of natures , but the relation of persons ; and therfore the son is not of another nature and of a diuers substance , because the father is god , not from another god , but the son is god from god his father : heere is not declared the substance but the originall ; that is , not what he is , but from whence he is , or is not ; for in god the father , and in god the son , if we inquire the nature of them both , both are god , and but one god , neither greater or lesse in essence of godhead , one then the other . but if we speake of the originall , saith saint austin ( which you see master hooker did ) the father is god originally , from whom the son is god ; but there is not from whom the father hath originally his deity ; so that to mislike this kinde of speech , is contrary to all truth , to affirme , that the son is not eternally begotten of the father , & that the father is not eternally a deity begetting . but heere you must take heede of the errour of arrius , who against the truth reasoned thus ; if the sonne be coeternall with his father , tell vs , we beseech you , whether he were begotten when he was , or when he was not ; if when he was , then there was before two vnbegotten , and afterwards one begot the other ; if when he was not , then he must needes be later , and after his father . but saith saint augustine , as we haue knowne onely the father , alwayes and without beginning to be vnbegottē ; so we confesse , the son alwaies , and without beginning to bee begotten of his father : therefore because the father , is originally that deitie , from whence the sonne is the sonne ; though hee be the same deity , yet the father alone , is originally that deitie , which the sonne originally is not : the want of identitie being not in the deitie ( whereof we must needes with the church of god acknowledge an vnitie ) but in that it is not originally the same . for euery thing that is a beginning , is a father vnto that which commeth of it , and euery ofspring is a sonne vnto that out of which it groweth . christ then being god , by being of god , light by issuing out of light , though he be the same deity ( for in the trinitie there is but one deity ) yet the father is originally that deity alone , which christ originally is not . here if you note but the difference betwixt that deity , and originally that deity , you must needs confesse that m. hooker speaketh , with the consent of reformed antiquitie , and hath said nothing to diminish the eternitie of the sonne , or to make him inferiour , in respect of his father ; or to teach the ignorant , that there be manie gods. article ii. the coeternity of the sonne , and the proceeding of the holy ghost . in this article , the thing which you mislike is not any matter of his iudgement , but that he seemeth to cōfesse , either out of lesse learning then you haue , or more humilitie then you shew , that the coeternitie of the sonne of god , with his father , and the proceeding of the spirit from the father and the sonne , are in scripture no where to be found by expresse literall mention : and yet you cannot be ignorant , but that vndoubtedly he beleeued both . therfore in my opinion it is strange , why out of the second , & fift article , holdē by our church ; you alleage that the sonne is the word of the father from euerlasting , begotten of the father ; and the holy ghost proceeding from the father and the son ; as though you dealt with an aduersarie that denied either . you could not be ignorant ( hauing perused his writings with that diligence to reprehend ) but in this great mysterie of the trinitie , both concerning the equalitie of the sonne with the father , and the deitie of the holie ghost , who proceedeth from both , see plainly , that he held directly , and soundly that doctrine , which is most true , and euerie way agreeable with the iudgements , and expositions of the reuerend fathers of our church . neither doe i know , whether in this point , anie of them , haue left behinde them a more sound , learned , and vertuous confession , then he hath done . for , saith he ; the lord our god is but one god. in which indiuisible vnitie , notwithstanding we adore the father , as being altogether of himselfe ; we glorifie that consubstantiall word , which is the sonne ; wee blesse and magnifie that coessentiall spirit , eternally proceeding from both , which is the holy ghost : what confession can there be in this point , of greater iudegment , learning , and truth ? and wherein , there is lesse difference with that , which our church holdeth ? both hauing their ground , as you may see , by the places alleaged by m. hooker , in the margent , from the infallible euidence of gods word . this troubleth you that hee saith , that these points are in scripture no where to be found , by expresse literall mention : which you out of your learned obseruation , haue prooued ( as you thinke ) to be farre otherwise , by those places of scripture , which his carelesse reading and weake iudgement , was no way able to obserue . where first , to proue the coeternitie of the sonne , you alleage ; the lord hath possessed me in the beginning of his way ; i was before his works of old . and againe , in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god. and againe , glorifie me thou father with thine owne selfe , with the glorie which i had with thee before the world was . these places i confesse by way of collection , may serue , trulie to confirme in this article , that which our church holdeth ( and yet they are not the plainest places that might be alleaged for this purpose . ) but in all these , where is there to be found expresse literall mention , of the coeternitie of the sonne , with the father ? nay , for any thing that euer i could reade ; i do not thinke you are able to find the word coeternall , or coequall , in the whole scripture in this sence . for after the arrians had long , in this point troubled the church , the holy fathers expresse what they held , by the word homousion ; which word saint augustine affirmeth , not to be found in all the scripture . what then hath maister hooker said ; which saint augustine said not long since ? neither of them disprouing the thing , but both denying the expresse literall mention of the word ; which i persuade my self your selues are neuer able to find . now for the proceeding of the holy ghost , you alleage , as you say , expresse words : when the comforter shall come , whom i will send vnto you ▪ from the father , euen the spirit of truth , which proceedeth of the father : out of this place ( as you thinke ) you haue sufficiently proued , the expresse literal mention of this point ; we contēd not with you , nor with any , whether the truth of this point may directly be warranted by holy scripture , but whether there be , as you say , expresse literal mention . first then we call that expresse literal mention , which is set down in plaine tearmes , & not inferred by way of consequence : that it is so in this point we haue some reasō to doubt , vntil out of your great obseruation , you confirme it by more plaine and apparant scripture . for against this place ( which is but one ) which you haue alleaged , we take this twofold exception ; as thereby accounting it insufficient , to proue as you would haue it , that there is expresse literall mention of the proceeding , of the spirit from the father and the son. for first , in that place alleaged out of saint iohn , there is no mention at all of proceeding from the sonne . secondly , as maister beza ( whose authority you will not denie ) doth expound the place , christ speaketh not of the essence of the holy ghost in himselfe , but of the vertue and power of the holy ghost in vs : neither doth his interpretation ( which wee will not examine at this time ) any way preiudice the foundation of that truth , which our church doth hold . for the deitie of the holie ghost proceeding from the father , and the sonne , though not by any expresse literall mention , yet may easily be proued by infinite places of scripture , and other infallible demonstrations besides this . in the dayes of liberius the pope , and of constantius the emperour , certaine fantasticall spirits held , that the holy ghost was not god ; but onely the ministeriall instrument of diuine working : this began vnder arrius , and increased by eunomius , a leprous heretike , but a subtill logitian ; whom the church hath strongly confuted , with arguments impossible to be answered . as first , that the holy ghost is euerie where ; to giue all things : to know and search all things ; that we are commanded to baptise in the name of the father , of the sonne , and of the holy ghost : besides the greatnesse of the sinne against the holy ghost : so ananias that lyed , as peter said , to the holy ghost , lyed not to man , but to god. these and many such places , warranted those ancient councels , to conclude the deitie of the holy ghost , equall to the father and the sonne ; and equally proceeding from both . as first the councell of constantinople , consisting of an hundreth and fiftie bishops , vnder theodosius the elder , and damasus the pope , which condemned the heresie of the macedonians . the same faith was confirmed by the councell of ephesus ; the councell of chalcedon ; the councell of lateran , vnder innocentius the third , and diuers others . and athanasius himselfe maketh it most plaine , that the father is of none , either made , created , or begotten : the sonne is of the father alone , not made , nor created , but begotten : the holy ghost is from the father , and the sonne , not made , nor created , nor begotten , but proceeding . in this , nothing being first , or last , greater , or lesse ; but all the three persons , coeternall and coequall . the proceeding of the holy ghost ( as the schoolemen obserue ) is threefold ; one vnspeakeable and eternal , whereby the holy ghost eternally ; and without time , proceedeth from the father and the sonne ; the other temporall , when he is sent from the father , and the son , to sanctifie the elect . of this latter proceeding , saith beza , is that place vnderstood which you peremptorily alleage , for to proue the first . so then we say , for our answer to this cauill , that as yet we see not expresse literall mention of these points ; but that they are truly and soundly collected , by the church , we neither doe , can , or dare deny ; secondly , that the deniall of expresse literall mention , ought not to make any scruple , in the minds of weake christians , concerning these articles , the substance wherof are plaine scripture ; though for the words we finde not as yet any expresse literall mention : nor last of all ( as you seeme to feare ) it can be no vnderpropping to the traditions of the church of rome , which if they can proue with the like necessary collection , out of the holy scripture , we are readie to imbrace them with all our hearts . in the meane time we account it a wrong , to haue an article of our faith , for want of expresse literall mention out of scripture , to be compared to traditions , of that kinde , for which in scripture there is no warrant at all . to conclude then this article , we say that in the trinitie there is that identity of essence , that it admitteth equality , but not plurality : the father is one , the sonne another , the holy-ghost another , but not another thing . for that thing that they all are , is this one thing , that they are one god. so that saint austin saith , i and my father are one ; heere both the words of the sentence , one , & are ; in that he saith one , he freeth thee from arrius ; and in that he saith are , hee freeth thee from sabellius . for are , hee would not say of one ; and one , he would not say of diuers : for euery person hath his owne substance , which no other besides hath , although there be others besides , which are of the same substance . for the persons of the godhead by reason of the vnity of their substance , doe as necessarily remaine , one within another , as they are of necessitie , to be distinguished one frō another : because two are the issue of one , and one the ofspring of the other two ; only of three , one , not growing out of any other . for sith they all are but one god in number , one indiuisible essence , or substance , their distinction cannot possiblie admit separation ; the father therefore is in the sonne , and the son in him ; they both in the spirit , and the spirit in both them : he that can , saith austine , conceiue , let him comprehend it , but hee that cannot , let him beleeue , and pray , that that which hee beleeueth ▪ he may truly vnderstand . article iii. whether the holy scriptures containe all things necessarie to saluation . two things , are requisite to mans better life ; a faith to beleeue what he ought , a knowledge to comprehend what hee must beleeue . for , saith our sauiour , in this is eternal life , to know thee to be the only verie god , and whom thou hast sent iesus christ. because therefore the want of this knowledge , is the cause of all iniquitie amongst men , as contrariwise the verie ground of all our happinesse , and the seed of whatsoeuer perfect vertue groweth from vs , is a right opinion touching things diuine : this kind of knowledge wee may iustly set downe , for the first and chiefest thing , which god imparteth to his people ; and our dutie , of receiuing this at his mercifull hands , for the first of those religious offices , wherewith wee publikely honour him on earth . now our church holdeth , and wee most willingly confesse , that the scripture is the true ground , of all that holily we beleeue . but yet for all that , not the onely meanes , concerning god , of all that profitably wee know . for that new impression , made into our nature , euē by the hand of the almightie , after the first sinne ; and the wise beholding of his excellent workmanship , in the making of all his creatures , are two volumes wherein wee may read ( though not directly ) the mercy of that power , that hath saued vs ; yet the greatnes , and the might of that hand that hath first made vs : which though it be not all that we must beleeue , yet it is not the least part of that , which we ought to know . for this , as it maketh vs without excuse , so it serueth euen to leade vs , to a better knowledge : and ( vntill it be perfect ) to vtter out of the light of nature , those voices , which may argue vs , though not to be sonnes ( for by this we cannot crie abba father ) yet to be reasonable creatures , of that power which we do adore ; this made * euripides in troas , and manie of the heathen , to vtter those prayers , which had they beene offered vp in christ , had not bin vnbeseeming a good christian : so that though the scriptures containe all things , which are necessarie to saluation ; and that our chiefest direction , is from them ; yet we are not affraid to confesse , that there is besides a light of nature , not altogether vnprofitable ; the insufficiencie whereof , is by the light of scripture , fully and perfectly supplied : and that both these together , as master a hooker affirmeth , which you mislike , doe serue in such full sort , that they both iointly & not seuerally , either of them , be so compleat , that vnto euerlasting felicity , we need not the knowledge of any thing more then of these two ; i cannot but maruaile , that men indued with reason should finde anie thing , in this assertion , which in the hardest construction , might be wrested as detracting frō the sufficiency of the holy scripture : and only for this cause , by reason that we reade darkly , by the light of nature those first elements , out of a naturall knowledge , which by the accesse of a better teacher , serue afterward for the full perfecting of that knowledge , which is requisite to mans saluation . for as the schoolemen say , man standeth in need of a threefold lawe , to a morall vprightnes , setting aside that righteousnes requisit for his heauenly country . first an eternall law ( which b saint austin calleth the cheifest reason ) secondly naturall ; last of all humane ; vnto which if we adde that man , ouer and besides these , is in an ordination to a supernaturall ende ; then it is manifest , that to make him a heauenly citizen there is requisite a fourth lawe ; which man , must learne to obei● , out of the holy scripture . but as in the greatest and fairest buildings euen those stones , that lye lowest , are of an vse , not be contemned ; though peraduenture , not comparable to those last , exquisite perfections , by which the worke is finished ; so euen the light of nature , for the acting of morall vertues , hath his vse , though not absolutely compleat , to make vs christians : and therefore in the nature of mans will , the very philosophers did seldome erre ; but in the strength of it often . so that some ascribed more then was fit ; others lesse then they ought ; imputing al to a stoical and fatall necessitie . now that we may truly vnderstand , ( the ignorance or mistaking wherof , hath bin the ground of your exception in this third article ) what good things man of himselfe may do or know without the grace of god ; we are taught , first that all actions are of three sorts ; naturall , which are common to man with the brute beasts ; as to eate , sleepe , and such like , which appertaine to his naturall life . secondly , ciuill , which we call politicall , or morall , humane actions ; as to buie , sel , to learne anie art , and to conclude any other action , which concerneth the politick , or priuate society of man. thirdly , those which belong to the kingdome of god , to a perfect , happy , and true christian life ; as to repent vs of our sinnes , to beleeue in god , to call vppon him , to obeie his voice , to liue after his precepts , and such like : now the question is , what grace and power is requisite to man , to performe any , or all these . where we must obserue , that some men ( how properlie i know not ) make the grace of god to be threefold . first that generall motion and action diuine , of which saint paule saith , in him we liue , we moue , and haue our beeing . this the schoolemen call a c generall ouerflowing ; and of the late writers , especially of luther , it is called the action of the omnipotency ; and this grace is common to all , that are within that compas to be called creatures . secondly there is a grace of god , which is a special fauor of god , by the which he bestoweth , and deuideth his gifts , and morall vertues , both to the faithfull and vnfaithfull , as pleaseth him . to the faithfull , that hauing the helpe afterward of a better light , they may serue to be meanes of their saluation ; to the vnfaithfull , for speciall vses , and manifold , in the society of man , and to make themselues , in the end without excuse . such were those gifts in the romans , and others of the heathen , of iustice , fortitude , temperance , prudence , which they thought , were from nature ; but we acknowledge to be from the speciall fauour of god ; for as being , so truth is but one , and by d whom soeuer it is done , or spoken , it proceedeth from the holy-ghost ; and therefore i both maruaile at those , who make an opposition betwixt this light of nature and the scripture ; e being both from one fountaine , though running in diuers streames ; and that some men peeuishly refuse the excellentest truthes , of heathen learning , seeing euen in them , these haue proceeded from the holy-ghost . thirdly , there is a grace of regeneration , or the grace of christ , without which , there can bee nothing performed of man truly good ; for saith f our sauiour , without me , you can doe nothing ; and saint g paule , not i but the grace of god which is with me ; so that this must be the perfection of the other two , which is powerfull to mans saluation , not rasing out , that which before was , but finishing that which before was imperfect . the two first , induing man with a passiue power , ( as the schoolemen call it ) which though actually it can doe nothing , yet it is fit to performe that , which it hath no repugnancy in his owne nature to resist ; as wood can be made fire , which water cannot . the last only affoording that actual power , which maketh him capable of the supernaturall worke ; so that it is true in diuinity , that a the possibility to haue faith , is from nature ; but to haue it , it is of grace ( as saint austin and prosper hold ) neither of them vnderstanding an actuall hauing of faith without the grace of regeneration : this made the fathers , in their sermons to the people , to stirre them vp to prayer and good workes ; to tell them often , that wee can loue god , and doe good workes ; whereunto , they only ment that we had a passiue power , which stocks and brute beasts haue not . now for the actiue power , wee hold , that man hath not this in naturall things , without the generall helpe of god ; and in morall actions , or the learning of artes , not with that generall helpe onely , ( which hath bin some mens error ) but from a more speciall and peculiar grace ; the weakenes of those common notions of good and euill , iust and vniust , left in our nature by a newe impression , after sin , is for the most part such , that they can hardly discerne any thing , no not in arts , vnlesse they be inlightned from aboue . and therfore , that numa amongst the romans ; solon amongst the athenians ; lycurgus amongst the lacedemonians ; and that many other amongst the gentiles , were wise , and in that kinde vertuous ; was not so much from nature , as from a speciall grace : whose morall workes , saith saint austin , were good , in their office , and action ; but not in their end . this argument he very learnedly handleth , against iulian the pelagian , where he concludeth two thinges ; that there can be no true vertues , or truly chast workes in infidels ; and that those works whatsoeuer they are , are not from nature , but from a speciall grace : the hauing whereof , though it serue not of it selfe to saluation , yet we are not afraid to affirme , that the want of these doe ordinarily exclude from saluation : iustice , fortitude , temperance , & prudence , being the effects of the same grace , but lesse powerfully working ; faith , hope , and charity , only taught by a supernaturall truth . so that though the light of nature , teach a truth necessary to saluation , without the scripture , yet it teacheth no knowledge , which is not conteined in holy scripture ; the difference only being in this , that the light of nature , doth not teach all that the scripture doth , but that the scripture teacheth all , ( & more perfectly ) which is taught by the light of nature : heerein only neither excluded as vnnecessarie , the one being subordinate to the other , and both meanes of the same thing . to conclude then this point ▪ wee hold ( being warranted by holy truth ) that the scriptures are the perfect measure and rule of faith , and that without christ , we cannot be compleat ; and yet for all this , that nature , so inlightened , teacheth those morall vertues , without which , is no ordinary saluation ; but we say not , that matters and cases of saluation bee determined , by any other lawe , then warranted by holy scripture ; or that we are , or can be iustified , by any other then in christ , by faith without the workes of the lawe : for there is no other name , which is giuen vnder heauen , amongst men , by which we must be saued . the naturall man perceiueth not the things of the spirit of god , for they are foolishnes vnto him : for except a man bee borne againe , hee cannot see the kingdome of heauen . article iiii. holy scriptures aboue the church . though the vnthankefulnes of man be without excuse , euen from the brightnes that riseth from looking vpon al the creatures ; which with their beames shineth into the darkest corners of mans hart , yet in his mercy , he hath not left him altogether destitute of a better guide . the first seruing , to teach him that there is a god ; the latter , what that god is , and how he will bee worshipped by man. this light wee call the scripture ; which god hath not vouchsafed to all , but to those only , whome he gathereth more neerely and familiarly to him selfe , and vouchsafeth that honor , to be called his church , that , as men through infirmity seeing weakely , prouide vnto themselues , the helpe of a better sight ; so , what man cannot reade , by the dimnes of his seeing out of the creatures , he may more apparantly reade them , in the holy scriptures . for as there is no saluation without religion ; no religion without faith ; so there is no faith without a promise , nor promise without a word : for god desirous to make an vnion betwixt vs and himselfe , hath so linked his word and his church , that neither can stand , where both are not . the church for her part , in her choice allowance testifying , as well that it is the scripture ; as the scripture , from an absolute authority , doth assure vs that it is the church . for as those , who are conuerted , haue no reason to beleeue , that to be the church , where there is no scripture ; so those who are not conuerted , haue no great reason , to admit that for scripture , for which they haue not the churches warrant . so that in my opinion , the contention is vnnaturall and vnfit , to make a variance by comparison , betwixt those two , who are in reason and nature , to support each other . it was a memorable attonement , that abraham made with lotte , let there be no strife i pray thee betweene thee and me , neither betweene thy heardsmen , and my heardsmen , for we be brethren ; so vndoubtedly , may the church and the scripture say ; it is then to be feared that those , who treacherously make this contentious comparison betwixt both , are in very deede , true friends to neither . for though we dislike of them , by whome too much heeretofore , hath bin attributed to the church ; yet we are loth to grow to an error on the contrary hand , and to derogate too much from the church of god : by which remoouall of one extremity with another , the worlde seeking to procure a remedy , hath purchased a meere exchang of the euill , which before was felt . we and our aduersaries confesse , that the scriptures in themselues haue great authority ▪ inward witnes from that spirit , which is the author of all truth : and outward arguments , strong motiues of beleefe , which cleaueth firmely to the word it selfe . for what doctrine was euer deliuered with greater maiesty ? what stile euer had such simplicity ? purity ? diuinity ? what history or memoriall of learning is of like antiquity ? what oracles foretold haue bin effected , with such certainty ? what miracles more powerfull to confirme the truth ? what enemies euer preuailed lesse or laboured more violently to roote it out ? to conclude , what witnesses haue dyed with more innocency , or lesse feare , then those that haue sealed the holinesse of this truth ? this the scripture is in it selfe ; but men who are of lesse learning , then these reformers are , do not vnworthily make question , how that which ought thus highly to be esteemed for it selfe , commeth to be accounted of thus honorably by vs ; for the weakenes of mans iudgement , doth not euer value things , by that worth which they doe deserue . for vndoubtedly out of that error , hath proceeded your suspition of him , whose inward worthines , must now be content to receiue testimony , from a witnes by many thousand degrees , inferiour to himselfe . to them of samaria the woman gaue testimony of our sauiour christ ; not that she was better , but better knowne ; for witnesses of lesse credit , then those of whome they beare witnesse , but of some more knowledge then those to whome they beare witnes , haue euer bin reputed to giue a kind of warrant and authority vnto that they proue . seeing then the church , which consisteth of many , doth outwardly testifie , what euery man inwardly should be ; to swarue vnnecessarilie from the iudgement of the whole church , experience as yet hath neuer found it safe . for that which by her ecclesiasticall authority , she shal probably thinke & define to be true , or good , must in congruity of reason , ouerrule all other inferiour iudgements whatsoeuer . and to them ( that out of a singularity of their owne ) aske vs why we thus hang ou● iudgements on the churches sleeue , wee answere with salomon , two are better then one ; for euen in matters of lesse moment , it was neuer thought safe , to neglect the iudgement of many , and rashly to follow the fancy , and opinion of some few . if the fathers of our church , had had no greater reasō to auouch their forsaking of the antichristian synagogue , ( as you call it ) then this point ; wee might iustly haue wished to haue bin recōciled to the fellowship , & society of their church . for this point , as it seemeth rightly vnderstood , affordeth little difference betwixt them and vs ; and therfore there was no mention of it in the last councell their church had . and bellarmine himselfe , doth apparantly complaine , that we wrong them in this point ; for doubtles it is a tolerable opinion of the church of rome , if they go no further ( as some of them do not ) to affirme that the scriptures , are holy and diuine in themselues , but so esteemed by vs for the authority of the church ; for there is no man doubteth but that it belongeth to the church ( if we vnderstand as we ought those truely who are the church ) to approue the scriptures , to acknowledg ; to receiue ; to publish ; & to commend vnto hir children . and this witnes ought to be receiued of all , as true , yet wee doe not beleeue the scriptures for this only ; for there is the testimony of the holy-ghost , without which the commendation of the church were of little value . that the scriptures are true to vs , wee haue it from the church ; but that wee beleeue them as true , we haue it from the holy-ghost . we confesse , it is an excellent office of the church , to beare witnes to the scriptures ; but we say not , that otherwise we would not beleeue them . we graunt that the scriptures rightly vsed , are the iudge of controuersies ; that they are the triall of the church ; that they are in themselues a sufficient witnes for what they are : but yet for all this , wee are not afraid , with master hooker to confesse , that it is not the word of god , which doth , or possibly can , assure vs , that we do well to thinke it is the word of god. for by experience we all know , that the first outward motion , leading men so to esteeme of the scripture , is the authority of gods church , which teacheth vs to receiue markes gospell , who was not an apostle , and refuse the gospell of thomas who was an apostle , & to retain s. lukes gospel , who saw not christ , and to reiect the gospell of nicodemus that sawe him . for though in themselues , they haue an apparant & great difference ( as there must needs be betwixt scripture and no scripture ) yet to those that are vnable to discerne so much , the matter stands ouerruled only , by the authoritie of the church . for though , as maister hooker saith , the scriptures teach vs , that sauing truth , which god hath discouered to the world , by reuelation ; yet it presumeth vs taught otherwise , that it selfe is diuine and sacred : and therefore the reading of the scripture in our churches , is one of the plainest euidences we haue of the churches assent and acknowledgement that it is the scripture : and yet without any contradiction at all , who so assenteth to the words of eternall life , doth it in regard of his authoritie whose words they are . those with whom the church is to deale , are often heretikes ; and these will much sooner beleeue the church , then the scriptures . therefore saith saint austine ( in that knowne place ) i had not beleeued the scriptures , if i had not beene compelled by the authoritie of the church . and howsoeuer the church may seeme , now little to need her authoritie , because the greatest haruest of heresies is past ; yet we must not contemne her for all that , because euen the weedes of heresie , being growne vnto a ripenesse , doe euen in their verie cutting downe scatter oftentimes , those seedes , which for a whilely vnseene , and buried in the earth , but afterwards freshly spring vp againe , no lesse pernicious then at the first . therfore the church hath , and must haue , to the end of the world , foure singular offices towards the scripture . first , to be a witnesse and keeper of them , as it were a faithfull register : whose fidelitie , in that behalfe , vnlesse we be bastard children , we haue no reason at all ●o suspect ; witnesses of lesse truth and authoritie , hauing oftentimes the credite to be beleeued . secondly , to discerne and iudge betweene false and adulterate , and that which is true , and perfect ; in this respect , it hath a propertie , which other assemblies want ; to heare , and discerne the voice of her husband ; neither can she be thought a chast spouse , who hath not the abilitie to do that . but as the goldsmith either in his ballance , or with his touchstone , discerneth pure gold from other mettals of lesse value , yet doth not make it ; so dealeth the church , who hath not authoritie to make scripture , that which is not ; but maketh a true difference from that which did only seeme . neither in this respect , is the church aboue the scriptures , but acknowledgeth in humilitie , that shee is left in trust , to tell her children which is her husbands voice ; and to point our to the world ( as iohn baptist did christ ) a truth of a farre more excellent perfection then her selfe is : as if i doubted of a strange coine , wherein i rest satisfied in the resolution of a skilfull man ; but yet valuing the coine for the matter and the stampe of the coine it selfe . the third office of the church is to publish , and diuulge , to proclaime as a cryer , the true edict of our lord himself ; not daring ( as chrysostom saith ) to adde anie thing of her owne ; which shee no sooner doth , but the true subiects yeeld obedience , not for the voice of him that proclaimeth , but for the authoritie of him whose ordinances are proclaimed . the last is to be an interpreter ; and in that following the safest rule ( to make an vndiuided vnitie of the truth vncapable of contradiction ) to be a most faithfull expositor of his owne meaning . thus whilest the church for that trust reposed in her , dealeth faithfully in these points , we are not afraid to acknowledge , that wee so esteeme of the scriptures , as rightly wee are led by the authoritie of gods church . those that are of that iudgement , that they dare giue credit without witnesse , though we follow not their example in ouermuch credulitie , yet we blame not their iudgmēts in that kind . touching therfore the authoritie of the church , & the scriptures , though we graunt ( as you say ) that the church is truly distinguished by the scriptures ; that the scriptures ( which is a strāge phrase ) warrāt y e trial of gods word ; & that it was euer beleeued for the words sake ; yet without feare of vnderpropping anie popish principle ( as you tearme it ) we say , that we are taught to receiue it , from the authoritie of the church ; we see her iudgement ; we heare her voice ; and in humilitie subscribe vnto all this ; euer acknowledging the scriptures to direct the church , and yet the church to affoord ( as she is bound ) her true testimony to the scripture . for the verse of menander , aratus , or epimenides , was , and had beene euer but the saying of poets ; had not the church assured vs , that it was vttered since , by an instrument of the holy ghost . article v. of freewill . in searching out the nature of humane reason , whilest wee reach into the depth of that excellencie , which man had by creation ; we must needs confesse , that by sinne he hath lost much , who now is vnable , to comprehend all that hee should ; but wee dare not affirme that hee hath lost all , who euen in this blindnesse , is able to see something , and in this weakenesse strong enough , without the light of supernaturall iustifying grace , to tread out those paths of moral vertues , which haue not only great vse in humane society , but are also not altogether of a nature oppositely different from mans saluation . and therefore the naturall way to find out lawes by reason , guideth , as it were by a direct path , the will vnto that which is good , which naturally hauing a freedome in herselfe , is apt to take , or refuse , any particular obiect whatsoeuer being presented vnto it . which though wee affirme , yet we neither say that reason can guide the will vnto all that is good ( for though euery good that concerneth vs hath euidence inough for it selfe , yet reason is not diligent to search it out ; ) nor we say not , that the will doth take or refuse any particular obiect ; but is apt rather , noting the nature wherby it hath that power , then shewing the ability wherby it hath that strength . for though sinne hath giuen ( as the schoolemen obserue ) foure wounds vnto our nature ; ignorance , malice , concupisence , and infirmity ; the first in the vnderstanding , the second in the will , the third in our desiring appetite , the last in the irascible ; yet the will is free from necessity and coaction , though not from misery and infirmity . for ( as saint bernard saith ) there is a threefold freedome , from necessity , from sinne , from misery : the first of nature , the second of grace , the third of glory . in the first , from the bondage of coaction , the will is free in it owne nature , and hath power ouer it selfe . in the second , the will is not free , but freed , from the bondage of sin . and in the third , it is freed from the seruitude of corruption . now that freedome , by which the will of man is named free , is the first only : and therefore we dare say , that the wicked , who haue not the two last , ( being captiues to sin in this life , and to misery in the life to come ) yet for all this , want not the freedome of will. now this freedome of nature as aristotle noteth , is two fold ; that which is opposite to a simple coaction , and that to which not only a coaction , but a necessity is opposite . the first is of those thinges , which cānot by any meanes but be willed of vs , & yet freely and voluntarily are willed ; as to be happy , which none can chuse but will , though most doe faile in the meanes : the second , when we can either will , or not will ; as to walke , speake , sit , or such like . now because nothing is the proper , or the chiefe obiect of the will , but that which either is , or seemes to bee good , as all learned men affirme ; therefore in our wils , there is this vsuall error , that our vnderstandings are deceiued by the inferior appetite of the flesh , which maketh that seeme good , in the particular proposition , which it pronounceth to bee euill in the generall . and therefore beeing by nature to will good , willeth that which is directly opposite , because reason growing idle , in the slouth of an inferior appetite , wanteth diligence to search it out . fewe men but think drunkennes in generall to bee euil , which notwithstanding themselues do imbrace , because in particular they thinke it good : this being the difference in all sinne , that then it seemeth to be none , when it is ( this sin ) thus the conclusion by the rules of logicke , being from the particular ( wherein reason corrupted hath failed ) the will hath reason enough to follow that ; and therfore saith s. austin , man vsing amisse the freedome of this wil , hath both lost it and himselfe ; not in respect of the naturall libertie from coaction , but in respect of the libertie which is from sinne , as aquinas answereth . saint ambrose ( or whosoeuer was the authour of that booke of the calling of the gentiles ) saith , that in man there is a threefold will ; sensitiue , animal , spiritual ; the two first , he holdeth to bee 〈◊〉 , the last to be the worke of the holy ghost . for as one 〈◊〉 , there is in man an vnderstanding of earthly things , and of heauenly : earthly things , as of policie , gouerning of families , arts , liberall and mechanicall , and such like , which pertaine not directly to god , to his kingdome , to the righteousnesse of it , to eternall happinesse ; heauenly , as the knowledge of the diuine will , and framing our liues according to it : of the first we say , that because man is a sociable creature , & naturally inclineth to all that concerne the preseruation of that ; there are left in him certain vniuersall impressions , wherein in all ages , wise men haue conspired for the making of good lawes : which in my opinion is not much lesse , then that which you reprehend , being affirmed by m. hooker . but the vnderstāding of heauenly things , we confesse by the corruption of original sin wholy to be taken from vs. for natural things are corrupted , & supernaturall taken away . for we think not as some of the ancient fathers did , especially the greekes ( who were loth to dissent too much from the philosophers ) that man was corrupted only in his sensuall part , and that hee hath reason found , and his will also for the most part . for saith saint austin , adam had that he might , if he would ; but not to will that he could : and therefore in supernaturall things ( which are the workes of pietie pleasing and acceptable to god ) ( of which is vnderstood all that you alleage out of the tenth article of the church of england ) we say the will of man hath not obtained grace by freedom , but freedome by grace ; yet for all this , neither doth the will want in his owne nature a potentiall freedome in all things , nor an actuall powerfull freedome in some things : for the blow that sinne gaue , made not an equall disabilitie to all actions ; seeing all actions are not in equal distance from mans nature . for the thoughts , and the actions of man , wee know are of three kindes ; naturall , morall , supernaturall ; nowe there are manie truths theoricall , and mechanicall , contained in naturall and humane arts , which by man may bee comprehended , onely by the light of nature : for though some diuines are of opinion , that no morall truth can be knowne of the vnderstanding of man , in the state of nature corrupt , without the special help of god ; others contrary ( as albertus , bonauenture , scotus , aqumas and diuers others ) yet all agree in this , that man can know a morall truth in generall , without any speciall grace ; but that good that directly belongeth to eternall life , he cannot . now what i pray you doth our church say lesse when saith , that without the grace of god ( which is by christ ) preuen●ing vs , that we will , and working together while we will , we are nothing at all able to doe the workes of pietie , which are pleasing & acceptable to god ? or what in your opiniō doth m. hooker say more , when he saith that there is in the will of man , naturally that freedome , wherby it is apt ( not able ) to take , or refuse any particular obiect whatsoeuer , being presented to it ? or when hee saith there is not that good which cōcerneth vs , but it hath enough for euidēce in it selfe if reason were diligent to search it out : the fault of mans errour in election , arising out of the slouth of reason , not out of the nature of the good . and this slouth , being nothing els , but that heauie burthen , wherwith we are loden by our first corruption . and therefore in mine opinion , the accusation is directly false , whereby you would make him to say contrary to his words ; that reason by diligence is able to find out anie good concerning vs. for hee that saith that there is vertue enough in the poole to heale , if a man had power enough to put himselfe in ; doth not affirme that man hath strength enough to doe it ; but that the poole had vertue , if hee were able to do it . but doubtlesse we are dead in our sinnes , and trespasses ; we are not sufficient of our selues to thinke anie thing ; and yet as seneca saith , it is the gift of god that we liue , for that he hath done without vs ; but it is an act of our owne ( not simply , but of our selues helped ) that we liue well . for many other things may vnwillingly be done by vs , but the act of beleeuing , as it must be done in vs , so it must be done willingly , and with vs. and therefore saith saint austin , there are three things necessarie that supernaturall mysteries may bee perceiued by vs ; first , a diuine reuelation from the scriptures ; a perswasion of that truth by miracles , or some other meanes ; and last of all , the rule of the will. for , saith he , a man may enter into the church vnwillingly ; he may receiue the sacrament vnwillingly ; but no man can beleeue but willingly . now there is no difference betwixt the will , and the free will , ( both being the rationall power of desiring ) but that the one respecteth the end , and then it is called will : the other respecteth the meanes , and then it is called free-will . so the same power of vnderstanding , as it respecteth the first principles , is called vnderstanding ; as it respecteth the conclusion which is gathered by a discourse , from the principles , it is called reason . now this reason concerning things doubtful , hath naturally in it selfe , a way to both opposites ; but leaneth to that for the most part , wherunto either appetite , ignorance or grace sway it . so that though freely and without constraint , it follow naturally the wisedome of the flesh ; yet without a supernaturall grace , the wisedome of the flesh is enmitie against god : for it is not subiect to the lawe of god , neither indeed can be . this being duly weighed with vnderstanding , and considered of with a charitable humilitie , such as the cause requireth , euery man may see ( notwithstanding your accusation ) that our church in this neither differeth from the truth , nor master hooker at all from our church . article vi. of faith and works . where charity hath not power enough to guide reason , there malice out of ignorance , is able to make conclusions against sense . for the eies being blinded which naturally are to perform the best offices of seeing ; the colours that are discerned otherwise , are litle better , then the false errors of a troubled fancy . for where the light is darkenes , how great must that darkenes be ? to attaine by a supernaturall power , to that felicity , which is an acte of the greatest mercy , as infinite numbers faile in the thing ; so there are not a few , which vtterly mistake the meanes . and whilest all , that are christians , acknowledge it to be a grace ; eager contentions are stirred vp , whether it be imputed or inherent in vs. and seeing in this acte of iustification , by the consent of all , man doth receiue from god what he hath , the question is , what vertue must be in that hand , to inable weakenes to receiue such strength : and how that faith must be accompanied , that is able to clothe our soules with the righteousnes of anothers merit . heere we haue aduersaries , whom peraduenture we mistake , as they mistake vs ; making , ( as in other points ) a misconstruction , to be the ground of a great difference , and the strongest opposition , to arise from hence ; that nether part is willing to vnderstand each other . heere if we should but discouer the least meanes of reconcilement , some hasty spirits would not stick to accuse vs as more then partiall ; and that treacherouslie we sought to betray the cause . in that we purpose , to set downe what truth warranteth in this behalfe , it is rather to free him from suspition , whom you doe accuse , then that hee in that , wherein you accuse him , any way standeth in neede of our weake defence . if man rightly value but the merit of the sonne of god ; and how so humble , and innocent obedience , to so lowe a state , must needes in iustice , make a full satisfaction , for so great a sin ; he cannot chuse but confesse that onely for the merit of our lord , and sauiour iesus christ , through faith , and not for works and our merits , we are accounted righteous before god. if the soule of man , did serue only to giue him being in this life , then things appertaining to this life would cōtent him , as we see they doe other creatures ; which creatures , inioying those things by which they liue , they doe seeke no further , but in this contentation , doe shew a kinde of acknowledgement , that there is no higher good , which any way doth belong vnto them . with man it is far otherwise ; for although all inferiour things were in the possession of one , yet he would euer with a desire thirst , for some thing aboue all those ; so that nature , euen in this life , doth claime a perfection , higher and more diuine , then any thing in it selfe , which man must receiue in the reward : now rewards doe alwaies presuppose such duties performed as are rewardable ; our naturall meanes vnto blessednesse are our workes , nor is it possible , that nature should euer finde any other way to saluation , but only this . yet seeing that no man can say , since the foundation of the world , that his workes are pure , but that all flesh is guilty of that , for which god hath threatned eternally to punish ; there resteth either no way vnto saluation , or a way which must needs be supernatural , and aboue mans reach . had adam continued in his first estate , mans absolute righteousnes , and integrity in all his actions , had bin the way of life to him and to all his posterity ; though peraduenture not in so large a manner as heauenly felicity , doth import ; the possession ▪ whereof , euen the least moment , were too abundant a retribution . yet now , we fayling , in that which was our dutie , it were a thing impossible in nature , to obtaine the other . the light of nature , is neuer able to find out any way of obtaining the reward of blisse , but by performing exactly the works of righteousnes . therfore god hath prepared a supernaturall way , namely that we doe beleeue ; not that god doth require nothing vnto happines , at the hands of men , ( as maister hooker sayth ) sauing only a naked faith ( for hope & charity we may not exclude ) but that without faith all other things are as nothing ; this being the grounde of those other diuine vertues . the principall obiect of faith , is that eternall verity , which hath discouered the treasures , of hidden wisdome in christ ; the highest obiect of hope , is that euerlasting goodnes , which in christ doth quicken the dead ; the final obiect of charity , is that incōprehensible beauty , which shineth in the countenance of christ , the son of the liuing god. the first beginneth heere , with a weake apprehension of things not seene , and endeth in the beholding of god in the world to come . the second beginneth heere , with a trembling expectation of things far remoued , and as yet , but only heard of ; and endeth with a reall , and actuall fruition , of that which no toong is able to expresse . the third beginneth heere , with a weake inclination of hart , towards him , vnto whom ; we are not able to approch , and endeth with an endles vnion ; the mystery wherof , is higher , then the reach of the thoughts of men . and howsoeuer the apprehension , of that righteousnesse , wherby man is iustified , be properly but the worke of one , yet we dare not ( neither doe any learned in our church ) make faith to be naked of other vertues ; and therefore it is so much the more strange , that you follow the error , which our aduersaries haue accused vs for , as though it were an opinion holden by our church . in this article against maister hooker , you say , that god requireth no more at the hands of men ▪ vnto happinesse ; then a naked beleefe . and a little after ; we claime nothing , by any dutie we do , or can do , or any vertue which wee find in our selues , but onely by that naked faith , &c. in these assertions ( which in my opinion are repugnant to our church ) and in the best construction , make but a harsh sound ; what do you else , but discouer y e error , which they of the church of rome , by a mistaking , haue thought vs to hold ? as though it were our doctrine , that wee could be iustified , by a faith that were meerely naked ? luther striuing to shew how litle our works , did in the merit of mans saluation , speaketh somewhat harshly , when he saith ; a faith without & before we haue charitie , doth iustifie . and in another place ( both which are not vniustly called in question by those of the church of rome ) he saith ; faith vnles it be without euen the least good works , doth not iustify ; nay , it is no faith . but m. calum speaketh in this , better then either luther or you ; faith alone iustifieth , but not that faith which is alone . for if our church held a naked faith ( which none that were wise euer did ) might not all the world iustly accuse vs as enemies to good works ? the most of the learned in germany held a necessitie of good works ▪ not a necessitie of effecting , but a necessitie of presence for we are saued doubtlesse by grace , but ( hauing yeers ) we cannot ordinarily be saued vnles we haue good works . for faith which we teach to iustifie , is not void of good works ; as doctor a fulke answereth to the rhemes obiection . and b therfore in another place , he saith ; the elect are alwayes fruitfull of good works . from hence ( seeing faith hath no assurance for itselfe either to god or to mā ) we exhort in our sermons to good works , we perswade to humiliation , by fasting & weeping ; which are ( if they be truly penitent ) meanes to blot out sin , thorough gods vnspeakable and vndeserued mercie . for as saint c paul saith , godly sorrow causeth repentance vnto saluation , not to be repented of : and therefore saith saint hierom , fasting , and sackcloth are the armor of repentāce ▪ and y e men please god by fasting ( saith d ▪ d fulk ) as anna , tobie , iudith , hester , we doubt nothing at all , while we vse it to the right end allowed of god ; that is , hūbling of our selues , & chastising of our bodies , that it might bee more obedient to the spirit , and feruent in prayer . nay our solemne fasts are , as m. hooker saith , the splendor , and outward glorie of our religion ; forcible witnesses of ancient truth ; prouocations to the exercise of all pi●tie ; shadowes of our endlesse felicitie in heauen ; and euerlasting records and memorials vpon earth ; which , it is great pitie it is so much neglected , because euen therein , they which cannot be drawne , to harken vnto what we teach , might onely by looking vpon that we do , in a maner reade whatsoeuer we beleeue . now , that he saith , the attainement vnto anie gratious benefit of gods vnspeakable and vndeserued mercie , the phrase of antiquitie , hath called by the name of merit ; this is that , wherein you desire to be resolued . and surely , he hath read little , who is ignorant , that the heathen masters of the a latine tongue , and the fathers for antiquitie , nearest vnto those times , haue vsed the word ( merit ) far in another sence , then that whereunto the violence of some cōstructions haue wrested it at this day . and aquinas himselfe vnderstandeth by the name of ●urit , not a worke not due , which should deserue a reward ; but a worke which mercifully , and by the goodnes of god a reward followeth . the phrase of the latine doth properly make one to merit of another , and as it were to bind him to him , who doth any thing , which pleaseth and delighteth him , for whom it is done . thus that place in the epistle to the hebrues , to do good , and to distribute forget not , for with such sacrifice god is well pleased . where they of rhemes , following the latine ( promeretur ) say promerited , shewing that they meant nothing els , in ancient time , by merit , but that delight , allowance , and contentment , which god taketh in those good things we do , and so rewardeth them . and doctor fulke confesseth that primasius , who was saint austins scholler , vsed the same word , b promeretur , as it was taken amongst the vulgar at that day , farre differing from the sense wherein it is nowe vsed . thus much briefly , may serue for answer in this point ; that faith is not alone , though alone it iustifie ; that though a man sinne ( if he repent ) his faith may saue him ; that there are vses , ( nay excellent vses ) of good works , though they do not saue vs ; and last of all , if posteritie had not corrupted the word merit , that we would not be afraid , to speake in the phrase of antiquitie , and call our vertuous attainment ( by mercie of grace ) by the name of merit . article vii . the vertue of works . as goodnesse , so truth being but one , whatsoeuer is opposite ( be it neuer so carefully obserued ) in the course of a long streame , at the last foldeth it selfe in a contradiction . for falshood hath no more strength , to proue a truth ; then truth , hath weaknesse , to beget a lie . then the ground of all true assertions , concurring immoueably in that one first truth , of which all other inferior are but branches ; whatsoeuer goeth about to disproue that , must of necessitie , in his owne parts bee diuers , and imply a contrarietie , seeing it laboureth to infring the certainty of that , which eternally , and vnchangeably , is but one . hence commeth it , that vnskilfull men ( the grounds of whose opinions are but the vncertainties of their owne ignorance ) are thought to want memorie , whilest they contradict themselues ; when indeed , the defect is in iudgment , which cānot make truth the ground of their knowledge , from which if they swarue neuer so little , they doe not sooner oppugne others , then crosse themselues ; truth admitting no coherence of contrarieties , seeing it selfe , is but onely one . from this hath proceeded , that ouersight of a great number , who speaking first , against a truth vttered by others ; come at length , to speake euen directly , against themselues . thus you that in the former article , disputed of faith , naked and destitute of all good works , make your next step to those good works that do accompany faith . where i vnderstand not ( but perhaps you do ) why you call them good , if they arise not naturally out of faith ; or why you call that faith naked , which is accompanied with these good works . but doubtlesse there being a morall goodnes , euen where there is want of supernatural light ; and the most certaine token of that goodnes being , if the general perswasion of all men do so account it ; it can not chuse , but seeme strange , that the approbation of these , should in your opinion be applied to those works that are done out of faith , after man is iustified ; seeing there is a good ( as m. hooker saith ) that doth follow vnto all things by obseruing the course of their nature ; yet naturall agents cannot obtaine either reward , or punishment : for amongst creatures in this world , only mans obseruation of the law of his nature ( because he hath wil ) is righteousnes ; only mans transgression sin . for euen to doe that , which nature telleth vs we ought ( howsoeuer we know it ) must needs be acceptable in gods sight . how this , vttered out of great iudgment to another purpose ( namely , that good things are done , and allowed , whereof we haue other direction then scripture ) is by you wrested against the articles of our church , either concerning the perfection of works , which are with faith , or the goodnes of works , without faith ; to say plainly , i cannot yet vnderstand . therfore as the dealing is vnequall , to make him say what you list , so the aduātage is too great , to make him an aduersary to a cause of your own making ; when the whole scope of his speech is to another purpose . for there is no indifferēt reader , but had he considered what m. hooker speaketh , & to what end , in those places by you alleaged ; he must of necessity haue wondered at your sharpe and acute iudgements , that would without blushing , aduenture to alleage him to that end . but an opiniō doubtlesse that these things wold neuer be examined , gaue that cōfidence to your first motion , which consideration would haue hindered , if you had but once dreamed to haue bin called in question . wee should not therfore need in this , much to defend him but briefly resolue you , what our church holdeth , ( and fitly ) in this point . the a articles of our church which ye thinke are oppugned , are two ; first that the fruits of faith , cannot abide the seuerity of gods iustice ; that man out of faith , doth good workes , which though they make vs not iust , yet are both acceptable , and rewardable : i doubt not but it is a truth , wherof if yee had not bin perswaded , this letter of yours ( profitable ( as you think ) to the church and pleasing to god ) as all the rest of your writings in that kinde , had lien buried , vnborne in those rotten sepulchers , from whēce into the world they did first come , whilest we are by that intermediat iustice of christ , made righteous , and haue obtained a free remission of our sins , that we are tearmed iust ; there is with this mercy ioyned the holy-ghost ; which dwelling in vs maketh vs fruitfull to good workes ; this reuiuing all parts from our naturall corruption , reformeth vs to a pure , and willing obedience vnto that reuealed will , which is the rule of all that we ought to doe ; yet seeing we are clothed with corruption , there are euen in our best actions , those remainders of imperfection , which serue , to teach vs thankefulnes , and humility , both arising , from the consideration of our own weakenes . and i doubt not , but euen in this poynt , many of the church of rome , ( whose humiliation in their penitēcy of heart , seemeth far to exceed ours ) are of this opinion , that euen the best action performed in their whole life ( as there are yet some few monumēts spared from the couetous hand ) if all points of it were considered with a streight view , sifting euen the least circumstances , which closely insinuate thēselues , out of our corruptiōs , into our actions , they would ( i say ) confesse , that there is something which tasteth of the flesh ; which corruption , if either for want of a strict consideration we see not , or through a selfeloue could pardon , yet it is not able , in the feeblenes of his owne nature , to abide the exact triall , & seuerity of gods iudgement . that law , the least transgression wherof is sin , is sayd to be fulfilled three waies ; first in christ ; and so all the faithfull are said to fulfill the lawe , hauing his obedience imputed to them . secondly , it is fulfilled by a diuine acceptatiō , for god accepteth our obediēce begun , as if it were perfect ; seeing what imperfections are in it , are not imputed to vs. for it is al one , not to be , & not to be imputed ; blessednes being the reward of both : and we know that there is no condemnation to those that are in christ iesus . thirdly , it is fulfilled by vs ; an error i thinke scarce any do hold , sauing only the anabaptists . for that eternall wisdome , which hath ledde man by the law vnto christ , hath set those bounds , which all men haue broken , ( the first commandement and the last ) to include all , as guilty of the breach of the whole law : for our knowledge being but in part , it is not possible ( saith saint a austen ) that our loue can be perfect . and therfore we conclude the first point , according to the article of our church , from which there is no sillable in master hooker that is different ; that our workes though they be good , and so esteemed , and rewarded , yet they cannot abide the iustice of the lawe , and the seuerity of gods iudgement . the second point is , whether the workes which are done before the grace of christ , are not only not acceptable to god , but also haue the nature of sinne . in this we must vse some care ; for whilest men iustly disagreeing , haue equally laboured to be differēt one from another , both in the end , haue bin equally distant frō the truth . that there are excellent graces in the heathen , no man doubteth ; and he must needs be far from reason , and sense , who maketh no difference betwixt the iustice , moderation , and equity of titus and traian , and the fury , violence , and tyranny of caligula , nero , and domitian ; betwixt the vncleane lusts of tiberius , and the continency in this respect of vespasian ; in one word , betwixt the obseruation , and the breach of lawes . for there is that difference betwixt iust , and vniust , that euen the frame of nature ( where sense wanteth ) acknowledge a well being , by the obseruation of what it ought : and therfore , much more in those good works , which because they missed of the right scope , wee dare not call by the name of true , perfect christians vertues ; yet for their very action , we are content , ( so long as they swarue not from the righteousnesse of the lawe of nature ) to giue them leaue to be called by a better name , then only sinnes ; and yet for all this , no man taketh them , to be much better in the true seuerity , of a hard construction ; for those that are not regenerate , although they sin in their best obseruation of the morall lawe , yet it is much better to performe those offices , then to performe them not ; seeing b a part of that indeuour , though it be not meere righteousnesse , yet it is lesse sinne . we must therefore remember , that a worke is considerable , either in respect of the substance ; or in regard of the manner of doing . in respect of the worke , all the actions of infidels are not sin ; seeing they performe those things , which are commanded , by the law of nature , of nations , of god ; nay they are so far , in this respect , from beeing sins , that as ( saint austin saith ) god doth plenteously reward them . but concerning the manner of working , all their actions are sin ; as proceeding from a corrupt fountaine , a hart that wanteth true faith ; and directed to an ende of lesse value , then he is , whose glory ought to be the end of all we doe . this is confessed euen by our aduersaries themselues , with whom seeing we doe agree , there can be no suspition that we should dissent , from that which our church holdeth ; and this may serue rather to tell you what in these points , is the iudgement of our church , then to defend him , whose words you haue wrested , to a far different sense . article viii . works of supererogation . the neerenes , oftentimes to euill , is warrant enough for suspition , to accuse of euill ; and because all errors , are not equally distant from truth , some men in their true assertions , are supposed , by weake iudgements , not to differ at all from error . from hence commeth it , that those men ( who haue no other iudgement but zeale ) ( which is the best excuse i can make for your accusation in this article ) haue run so far , with a desire of safety , from those opinions that were thought dangerous ; that they haue come at length , vnto those that were much more daungerous in truth . which practise , though it argue a good care , yet it proceedeth from a timorous nature , wanting the ability , to put a difference in the causes of true feare ; so that this circumspection , is but cowardlinesse ; as he that were loth to be taken amongst his enimies trenches , would get himselfe so far distant , that he would outrun , euen the vtmost limits of his owne armie . thus haue you dealt in this article ; fearing to approue any thing that might tend to supererogation , you haue misliked euen the allowance of those works , which are good , and yet not commanded ; for ( say you ) to hold , as master hooker doth , that god approueth more then he commandeth , what is it else , but to scatter euen the graines of popery , and to lead men , to those arrogant works of supererogation . herein your feare , if it would haue giuen you leaue , to haue looked behinde you , it may be peraduenture , you would not haue run away in such haste ; especially in cases of no great daunger . and therfore giue me leaue , to tell you , that there is no treachery , no danger , no cause of flying , from this opinion . all the vnforced actions of men , are voluntarie ; and all voluntarie actions , tending to their end , haue choice ; and all choice presupposeth the knowledge of some cause , wherefore we make it ; and therfore it is no absurditie to thinke that all actions of men , indued with the vse of reason , are generally either good , or euill . and although whatsoeuer is good , the same is also approued of god , yet according to the sundry degrees of goodnes , the kinds of diuine approbation are in like sort multiplied : for some things are good , yet in so meane a degree of goodnes , that men are only not disproued , nor disallowed of god , for them : as that no man hateth his owne flesh ; it is a matter of approbation , and allowance , but of no great , or singular acceptation . so saith * our sauiour , if you do good vnto them that do so to you ; the verie publicans themselues do as much : wherein to come short of them , as it were a great vice , so not to exceed thē , is no great vertue . some things in such sort are allowable , that they be also required as necessary to saluation , by way of direct , immediate , and proper necessitie finall ; so that without performance of such , wee cannot by ordinarie course be saued ; nor yet by any meanes be excluded from life , if we obserue those . as nature gaue light , vnto the former ; so the scripture is a guide to teach these : wherein because all faile , it is the obedience , and merit onely of one , that must make all righteous , that must be saued . some things there are , although not so required of necessitie , that to leaue them vndone , excludeth from saluation ; yet notwithstanding are of so great dignitie and acceptation with god , that most ample reward in heauen is laid vp for them . of these we haue no commandement , in nature , or scripture , that doth exact them , in particular at our hands ; yet those motiues there are in both , which may serue to draw our minds , most effectually to the performance of them . in this kind there is not the least action , but it doth somwhat make to the accessorie augmentation of our blisse ; which men haue as much reason to desire , as to desire that they may be blessed ; no measure of blessednesse hauing power to content , sauing onely where the blessed wanteth capacitie to receiue greater . vpon this dependeth , whatsoeuer difference there is betweene the states of saints in glorie . hereunto we referre whatsoeuer belongeth vnto the highest perfection ( for all perfection in this life is not equall ) of man , by way of seruice toward god : hereunto that feruor , and first loue of christians , did bend it selfe , causing them to a sell their possessions , and lay down the price at the blessed apostles feete ; hereunto saint b paul , vndoubtedly did aime , in so far abridging his owne libertie , and exceeding that which the bond of necessarie , and enioyned dutie tied him vnto , to ease those churches , to whom he preached , with his handie labour ; knowing that although it were not a duty which hee was commaunded , yet it was an aduantage to his preaching , and acceptable to god ; who doubtlesse approueth much more , then he doth commaund . thus when a man may liue in the state of matrimonie , seeking that good thereby , which nature principally desireth ; to make rather choice , of a contrarie life , in regard of saint paules iudgmēt ; he doth that which is manifestly allowed , and yet not commanded in gods word ; because without anie breach , he might doe otherwise . thus when a man who might lawfully possesse his riches , yet willingly doth bestow them , to religious vses , vertuously imbracing that pouertie , which he esteemeth as an aduantage to eternall riches ; doth that which argueth a greater perfection , and for which he hath warrant , though no precept at all ; because that which is a great vertue in him , is not a fault simply in those that do not the like . precepts and counsels hauing this difference , that the one is of absolute necessitie , the other left vnto our free election ; where both tending to the same end , yet in this differ ; that both tend not after the same maner : both looking at the meanes , but the one after a more exquisite , and excelling perfection . for euery man being placed in this life , betwixt the things of this world , and spirituall good things , the more hee cleaueth to these , the more perfect and excellent he is ; and yet to cast them away wholy , is no precept of necessitie , but an aduise of greater perfection . he that obeyeth not a precept , is guiltie of deserued punishment ; but he that faileth of these counsels , onely wanteth , without sinne , that measure of perfection . a for it is not a fault not to vow , but to vow , and to performe , it is a praise . hee that performeth the one , shall haue greater glorie , but he that faileth in the other ( without repentance ) shall haue certaine punishment . neither is it said , saith saint austine , as thou shalt not commit adulterie , thou shalt not kill ; so thou shalt not marie , for b those are exacted , this is offered . this if it bee done , it is praised ; those vnlesse they bee done , they are punished . for saith c saint hierome , where it is but aduise , there is left a freedome ; but where there is a precept , there is a necessitie . precepts are common to all ; counsel , the perfection of some few . the precept being obserued , hath a reward ; being not obserued , a punishment : but a counsell , or aduise , not obserued , hath no punishment ▪ and being obserued , hath a greater reward . in these points all haue not holden the same opinions ; some thought these counsels to be of the same necessitie with precepts ; as those heretikes called apostolici , mentioned by saint austine and epiphanius . others esteemed them as things indifferent , and of no greater perfect●on . others as things forbidden , which errour is accuse● by some of our aduersaries , to bee an opinion of our church . he that amongst vs of learning is most earnest in this point , is peter martyr ; and all that anie of them say , is but this ; that these counsels are sinne , if we esteeme them as meritorious of thēselues ; that they are not sinful , but sometimes foolish ; these men rather looking at the fol●ies , which hath accompanied the superstition of some few , then the vertuous perfection , which attendeth vpon the thing it selfe . nay , there is none of any sound iudgement in our church , which doth not thinke , that willing pouertie , humble obedience , and true chastity , are things verie commendable , and do bring with them great aduantage , to the true perfection of a christian life ; not that we can supermerit , by these , more then we ought ; but that by these , we do more , then without these we should : for nature , common wealths , and religion , as they haue a being , so they refuse not a perfection , and a being well . article ix . none free from all sinne . it cānot chuse but seeme strange , that this should bee an act of many , which in the most fauourable construction , commeth far short of that wisdome which should be in one . but it may be peraduenture ( that as it falleth out in things naturall ) actions are then best done , when one doth but one ; distraction being a let to a finite power , and vsually arising from diuersitie of iudgements . for all not looking with the same eyes , nor following the like principles of vnderstāding , though they agree in the generall to reprehend , yet for the most part , they faile , in a particular resolution , of what they thinke worthie to bee reprehended . and therefore as in elections , whilest two of the worthiest are competitors , stiffe factions vnite themselues , in allowance of a third inferiour to both . it seemeth that you haue dealt so in this article , wherein either all your consents made a hindrance to what you meant , or a diuisiō made you agree to mislike a thing of the least importance : wherin if you had not discouered a weaknes to be pitied , you might iustly haue expected an answer of more learning ; but as men failing , euē in those things , wherein it is no great vertue not to faile , ad little vnto any mā y t shall direct thē ( because it is smal praise to teach that which is ashame not to know ) so to omit our direction , euē where we wonder that any man should need it , must needs be esteemed in a high degree , an vnexcusable neglect of a necessarie duty . no man i thinke ( not of those that are thought to be out of the compasse of the church ) maketh a doubt whether all men sin , leauing the redemptiō of man , & so the freedome from sin , to him only who was eternally the son of god. it was as necessary that he should be without sin , as it is certaine that ( except him ) in many things we offend all . this is our frailty , that all of vs doe amisse which we know , and the best of vs do offend , when we know not ; and therfore a dauid with an humble hart , desired to be clēsed , from his secret faults ; making that euen a step , to keepe him from presumptuous sins . as it is therfore , an infirmity that we doe amisse in many things ; so it is a vertue , that we would do amisse in nothing ; this being the perfection of our country , & that the desire of our way : which because ( clothed with corruption ) we cannot attaine , we say daily ( as we are taught ) forgiue vs our trespasses . and they pray in vaine , to haue sin pardoned , which secke not also by prayer , to haue sin preuented ; yea euery particular sin , except men can haue some transgression , wherwith they ought to haue truce . for although ( saith maister hooker ) we cannot be free from all sin collectiuely , ( that is generall , for so none was free sauing only christ ) in such sort that no part therof shal be foūd inherent in vs , yet distributiuely at the least al great and greeuous actuall offences , as they offer themselues one by one , both may , and ought by all meanes to be auoided ; so that in this sense , to be preserued from all sin , is not impossible . this assertion , seemeth in your opinions to be vntrue , and for proofe you alledge , that we which are baptized , and regenerated , in many things do offend all ; did euer maister hooker denie this ? nay in the very same place , are not these his words ? in many things we doe all amisse . but say you if that be so , how can we auoide all great and greiuous sins ? or if we can , why may we not be preserued also , from all small sins ; and so being free from both small , and great , preserue our robe pure , to the cōming of our sauiour christ ? in these few words , in my opinion , are three of the most strange , and most violent conclusions , that i haue euer read ; and those , which are by no meanes agreeable to any church . first we say , in many things we offend all ; therfore say you , in all things we offend all . secōdly we say , we may auoid some particular great , & greeuous sins ; therfore fay you , why not lesse also ? as if it were all one , not to small , & not to sinne at all . thirdly , we say y t we are to pray , and hope to be pre●erued frō any & euery speciall sin ; therfore say you , we may keep our robe pure , to the cōming of christ. i would be loth to make euill arguments worse by repeating ; and therfore i haue vsed a direct sincerity in rehearsing your own words ; wherein i shall not need , to bestow any labour to ouerthrow a ruinous building of such weakenes ; but only to tell you , in these points , what is the iudgement , and sentence of the whole church . first , no man doubteth but that all men are sinners ; for b all the imaginations of the thoughts of mans hart , are only euill continually . in c iniquity are we borne and in sin are we conceaued ; who d can vnderstand his faults ? for e the hart is deceitfull , and wicked aboue all things , who can know it ? f for vnlesse a man bee borne , of water and of the spirit , he cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen . g and we are all by nature , the children of wrath . in one word , none are free from sin , but he whom the blessed virgin conceaued , without the law of the flesh , rebelling against the law of the minde ; as saint austin proueth most learnedly , by a h cloud of witnesses of the auncient fathers against iulian the pelagian . nay euen they of the church of rome , shew by their exorcising before baptisme , that they thinke none to be without sin ; where we doe not now dispute of the lawfulnes of that vse , but by that conclude that in this point , they hold a truth . so that the maine thing which you so seeme to mislike , is a thing not holden or defended ( sauing in some particular case , as the virgin marie ) by any that i know ; for euen that streame of originall sin , hath ouerflowed all mankinde , out of which dayly proceede those great and innumerable multitudes of actuall sins . your three false conclusions , seeme to establish a threefold error , contrary to the doctrine of all churches , that are accounted christian. first , that all sin is but one sin . secondly , that all sins are equall . thirdly , that all sins , are vnited . the first , making no diuision , of the kinds of sin ; the second , no distinction of the qualities of sin ; and the third no difference , in committing sin . against these , we say ( and we hope warranted by truth ) that sins , are of diuers kinds ; of diuers degrees ; of diuers natures ; and that all are not , where one is . sins then may be distinguisht , in respect of the obiect against whom , god , our neighbour , ourselfe , of the matter wherein ; in the 〈◊〉 ignorance , heresie ; in the body , as the desires of the flesh ; from the manner of committing ; of ignorance , infirmity , malice ; from the action it selfe ; or our dutie ; of omission , of commission . from the degrees , by which they rise , in the hart only ; in the toung , in the hands , or the worke it selfe . from the qualities of the persons ; of saints , which are veniall , not imputed ; of the wicked , mortall , for which they shall be condemned . from the guilt ; not pardonable , as the sin against the holy ghost ; pardonable , not crying , or crying sins ; as the sheading of innocent bloud ; the afflicting of the fatherlesse , or widow , the sin of sodome ; & last of all , the denying the laborers wages ▪ these , are called crying sins , because for their greatnesse , they call aloude , for a great punishment . others , make a distinction of the seauen capital , or deadly sins ; which as we haue no great reason to admit , so we haue as little reason to disallowe ; knowing that euen those are the heads and fountaines of all sins , of the second table . the second assertion which we hold , is ; that all sins are not equall ; this was an opinion of the stoicks , who desirous to seeme vnwilling , to commit the least , held an opinion that they were equall to the greatest ; a good care , grounded vpon an euill reason . if a pilote ( say they ) ouerturned a ship full of gold , he sinned no more , then if he ouerturned a ship full of strawe ; for although there be a difference in the losse , yet the vnskilfulnes , or negligence is all one . or if two erre , from the scope , euen he that misseth a little , as well erreth , as he that misseth a great deale . but as in the former of shipwrack , the fault was greater , because he had greater reason , to make him circumspect ; reason telling vs that where we haue mo , and stronger motiues to doe any thing , there we haue lesse excuse , and the sin greater if we doe it not : for the latter , he erreth as well , but not asmuch ; seeing both , shooting at one marke , it is not al one to be a foote , & a rod wide . and therfore that lawe , that forbad but one thing ( thou shalt not kil ) forbad three things , as christ expoundeth it ; anger to thy brother ; to call him foole ; to offer him violence ; these hauing euery one as their seueral degrees , so their seuerall punishment . for who will say that the first is as great a fault , as the second ; or the third as small as the first ; for doubtles , things that are all forbidden , doe in their owne nature admit more or lesse . and howsoeuer in some sort , vertues are called equall ; yet vices are not : for all vertues , from the vanity of the world , tend but to one perfection , ( either to reason , as the philosophers thought ) ( or to say better , to the reueiled will of god ) which is the rule of good , and euill ; but sinnes departing from this leadeth vnto diuers vanities , in diuers kinds . neither are vertues all equall simply , but by a kinde of proportion ; because they all proceede from the loue of god ; and all tend vnto his glory : otherwise in it selfe , faith is better then tēperance , & one vertue may in the same man , be far more excellent , then in many others . as faith in the centurion ; obedience in abraham ; patience in iob ; the consideration of this inequality of sinne , as it acquainteth vs , with those steps that sinne maketh in vs ; ●o it causeth vs , not to dispaire , that we haue committed some , but to hope , and to be thankfull , that we haue escaped greater : assuring our selues , ( if we be not ourselues wanting ) that though wee cannot auoid all sinnes ; yet we may , and shall auoid , all great and presumptuous sinnes . this heresie , then wee leaue to his first a authours iouinian , and the rest ; and so come to the last point : because saint iaemes saith , hee that keepeth the whole law , and offendeth in one , is guiltie of all ; some thought , all sinnes to be imputed vnto him that committed anie one ; but saint iames onely telleth vs , that god exacteth a keeping of them all . the schoolemen , they interpet this place thus ; in all sin , are two things ; a departure from god , & a comming to the creature ; which made s. b austine call sinne , an vsing of that which wee ought to enioy , and an enioying of that , which wee ought but to vse . so that in respect of the departure , it is true that s. iames saith , he departeth as well , from god , that committeth but one sin , as he that committeth many , but not so farre . therefore to impose this vpon vs , were to adde euen to those that are oppressed already , a burthen farre greater , then the law doth ; for by obedience of the diuine lawe ; wee tend from manie to one ; but by disobedience , from one to many ; and those diuers : and therfore though vertues , haue amongst themselues , their vnion , and consent ; yet vices , haue their dissent , nay their opposition . so that this , then , is the conclusion ; that though no man bee without all sin , yet many are without many presumptuous sinnes : which because through prayers , and good meanes they auoid ; it followeth not an vtter exclusion of all sinne ; nor because they commit the least , it followeth not , that they offend equally , as if they committed all . article x. of predestination . least you should be like those , whose humility ye are loth to imitate ; ye haue drawne your readers in this article , to a serious consideration of a deepe point ; letting them vnderstand , that yee are able , not onely to aduise sobrietie , to such rash presumers ( as in your opinions m. hooker is ) but also to direct them , in those points , wherein , in your iudgements , they are much deceiued . that there is no man , how excellent soeuer , but without humilitie may easily erre ; i can as willingly confesse it , as i commend such , whom i see carefull to giue aduise vnto those , that haue gone astray . the one being the punishment of pride , to teach sobrietie ; the other the power of their learning , to shew humility ; but that either he hath done the one , or you the other , in this article , it is more then ( as yet ) i see any iust inducements to beleeue . and i am sorie , that things of principall excellencie , should bee thus bitten at , by men , whom it is like , god hath indued with graces both of wit and learning , to better vses . for if all men had that indifferencie of mind , that the greatest part of their forces were imployed , for the inlarging of that kingdome , whereof all of vs desire to bee subiects ; we should easily discerne , that a curious searching into that will , which is not reuealed , serueth but to breed a contempt , of that which is reuealed vnto vs. man desireth rather to know , then to doe ; nay to know , euen those things which do not concerne him , rather then to do that , for the neglect whereof , he must giue an account . from hence commeth it to passe , that what the schooles haue curiously sought out , concerning the nature of gods wil ; the pulpits , nay the stalles of artificers haue vndertaken to decide them all . so that those things , which once were but the deep amazemēt of some few , are now become the vsuall doctrine , and the vulgar consideration of many : where , that is not so much to be lamēted which we search , & cannot comprehend ; as that which we might comprehend , but do not search : following , euen that first euil exchange , for eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and euill , to depriue our selues of the tasting of the tree of life . so , that which nature once made a disease , the continuance of that disease , hath made it nature ; for euen that light , which man whilest he wanteth liueth in perpetuall darkenesse , is a light by our weakenesse not possible to bee attained vnto , and those paths , which in our blindnesse we grope after with so much desire , they are wayes not possible by mans weaknesse , to bee found out . for there is a cloud and darkenesse which are round about him , and thicke mis●es to couer him ; for we are without proportion inferiour to that power that hath first made vs ; not equall , not like . this being the iust recompence of him that searcheth out that maiestie , in the end to be ouerwhelmed with the same glory . our greatest knowledge in this , saith saint cyprian , is to confesse our ignorance ; for those acts , that are of this nature , there is greater holinesse to beleeue them , then to know them . truth lieth in the bottome , as democritus speaketh ; and as pindarus saith , about our minds there hang innumerable errours ; therefore the counsell of the son of sirach is to be followed ; seeke not out the things that are too hard for thee , neither search the things rashly , which are too mightie for thee ; but what god hath commanded thee , thinke vpon that with reuerence , and bee not curious in manie of his workes ; for it is not needfull for thee to see with thine eyes , the things that are secret ; be not curious in superfluous things , for many things are shewed vnto thee aboue the capacitie of men ; the medling with such , hath beguiled ma●ie , and an euill opinion hath deceiued their iudgment ; thou canst not see without eyes . yet for all this to bee absolutely either ignorant , or carelesse , of those things that concerne vs ; are no warrants for humilitie ; but euidences of our slouth : the world at this day hath two sorts of men ; whom though we need not to respect much , yet we are willing euen to giue them a reason of what wee do ; which though peraduenture they challenge at our hands , yet wee demaund not of them , a reason of what they surmise . the first sort are sensuall and carelesse ; neither respecting the will of god , of vs , or towards vs : these for the most part , vnderstand nothing but earthly things ; whom if you remoue to matters of a higher reach , you onely arme them against yourselfe , & awake them , to shew an vnsufferable contempt of all vertue . for that which they thinke painefull to themselues , being idolaters to the bellie , that they suppose partly impossible to others ; and that which for their owne dulnesse , they cannot easily learne , that they imagine ( but falsly ) that others can as hardly teach . the second sort , wiser then these , thinke that we ought to search , what god will haue vs to do ; but what he will do with vs , or what he hath decreed , or determined of vs , that they thinke , ought wholy to be neglected by vs. in these two errours , there is this difference ; that the dangers being equall , the reasons are not equall , that do moue both ; seeing man hath mo reasons , to perswade him to know too little , then to know too much . therefore the church of england , calleth predestination vnto life , the eternall purpose of god , whereby before the foundations of the world were laid , he constantly decreed , by his counsel vnto vs vnknown , to deliuer from the curse and destruction , them , whom he chose in christ out of mankind , and as vessels made vnto honour , through christ to bring them to eternall saluation ; whereupon , they who are indowed with so excellent a benefit of god , are called according to his purpose , and that by his spirit , working in a fit time : wherein if any thing , in his generall wil be opposite to that which secretly he hath determined of vs , it is neither a contrarietie in that essence which is but one ; neither anie warrant for vs , to bee defectiue in our charitie , which must imitate his general inclination to saue all . and howsoeuer he graunt not those prayers , which we make , for those who are not predestinate , because there is a more secret will that hath determined the contrarie ; yet notwithstanding , euen these prayers conformable to his general inclination , are in themselues without sin ; they are our duties ; & acceptable to god. for in god there is a wil reueiled , which not to do is sin ; & not reueiled , which we may do & yet sin . and therfore ▪ it must needs seeme strange , that it is made a question by any , how god eternally predestinateth by a constant decree , them whom hee calleth and saueth , and yet hath a generall inclination to saue all . a matter easily answered , if we doe but remember a twofold will ; it is not then a foresight of any thing , that occasioned his will otherwise ; it is not any generall election , altered vpon a speciall cause ; it is nothing either in vs , or in himselfe , that maketh this decree , either to be at all , or to be any other , sauing only one . we must know therfore , that the will of god is secret ; which therfore in scripture is compared to a deepe ; or reueiled , which must be the rule of those actions which we ought to doe : we may indeuour to doe against the first and not sinne , as abraham in offring isaac ; i say indeuour , for no man can do against it ; as also fulfill the other , and yet sin , as iudas . this diuision of the will of god , made by many others , ( though in other tearmes ) serueth both to answer such doubts , as vsually arise out of this darknes ; as also , fully to satisfy those slender obiections , which you haue framed in this point . damascene deuideth the will into antecedent and consequent ; peter lumbard , into his good pleasure , and the signe of it ; others , into a will absolute , or conditionall ; others , into wil of vs , or by vs , to be done ; s. austin , into a most omnipotent , and most powerfull wil , and into a will not so powerfull , that it euer commeth to pas●e : all these diuisions , concurring in one , and the selfe same thing , to teach vs , that there be parts some reueiled some secret of that , which in his owne nature , can no more be diuers or many , then it is possible for the essence of the godhead , to be more then one . but how is it then ( say you ) that god willeth all men to be saued ? is it a constant decree , or only an inclination ? that he thus willeth , there is no man doubteth ; and although some with the restraint of the word ( all ) vnderstand it , of his eternall , vnchangeable , secret decree ; yet we affirme● , that with a conditionall will ( which euer implyeth faith and obedience ; ) with a will of the signe , antecedent , vneffectuall , reueiled , he willeth all men to be saued . who therfore that they are not , it is not his decree , but their own fault . and although we say , as maister hooker doth , that god willeth many thinges conditionally , yet if wee speake properly , all things that god willeth , hee willeth simply ; and therefore all things that god willeth , must bee : the condition being , not in respect of the wil , but the manifestation of it . for it is no more possible , that there should be a wil in god conditional , then that his knowledge , and his wisedome should not be eternall : and yet in respect of vs , who must be ruled by his law , it is conditional . god sometimes commandeth what hee will not haue done ; not that he is contrary in his wil , but that his wil as yet is not , wholy reueiled : the matter of predestination was neuer fully handled before the time of pelagius , whose heresies gaue occasion to saint austin , and others to confirme vs in this point ; wherein though i confesse i vnwillingly labour at this time , yet i doubt not to affirme ( which may serue in steed of answere to content you ) that the predestination of god , is eternall , not conditional ; immutable ; not for works foreseen , and that those , which god hath determined ( though his predestination doe not take away second causes ) certainly must come to passe . neither is that any variablenes , as you ouer boldly seeme to insinuate , that he inclineth one way , & decreeth another ; for certainly saith s. ambrose , he willeth al men to be saued , if they wil themselues ; for he that hath giuen a law to al , doubtles hath excluded none . neither is here any acceptatiō of persons , that he hath chosen some , & not others ; for that is acceptiō of persons , saith s. austin , whē things to equals , equally due , are not equally diuided ; but where those things are diuided , y t are not due , but only of meere liberality bestowed , there this inequality is without iniustice , or acceptation of persons : it being in the power of a creditor , that hath two debtors , to exact his due of the one without iniustice , and meerely of his bounty , to forgiue the other . if you goe further in this point , to leade me into that depth , that lamentably hath swallowed vp many thousands , i say with s. austin ; thou oh man , dost thou expect an answer of me , and i am a man also ? therfore let vs rather both heare him , who saith , oh man who art thou , that doest answere god ? reason thou , i wil maruaile : dispute thou , i wil beleeue ; and say , oh how vnsearchable are his waies , and his iudgements past finding out ! article xi . the visible church and the church of rome . in the vehement dissentions of factions that are opposite ; there is not a labour vsually that reapeth either lesse fruite , or lesse thanks , then a charitable perswasion to a reconcilement ; which peraduenure hath bin the principal cause , why both parties , looking with a iealous eie , at the indifferent perswasions of a third , haue continued both enimies in themselues , and yet the third , suspected as a friend to neither . this whilest men haue done in kingdomes , their conclusions of peace , haue faintly languisht ; all sides earnestly wishing the thing , but suspecting those , who were agents to intreate , a perswasion to it : this in the church , some men haue done , both in former times and of late , with more charity , then either learning or successe ; so that in the end , both parties haue taken offence , at the mentiō of a reconcilement . that the church is at variance in it selfe , and so hath continued a long time , i thinke there is no man doubteth ; and surely we are all perswaded , that vnity , and peace , are not fitter for any society in the world , then for that , which is called by the name of church : how this might be effected , it hath bin the care of very wisemen ; who though they haue found little apparance of successe , by reason of those badde offices , which vncharitable minds haue performed , yet they haue not ceased , to wishe in the behalfe of the church , as dauid did for ierusalem , oh that it were , as a city built , at vnity in it selfe . priuate contentions , are then furthest from all hope of agreement , when both parties , equally standing vpon tearmes of superiority , earnestly contend , which is most excellent ; and that neither haue committed fault . in what straits the church is , and hath bin in all times , it may easily be gathered , in that as yet , men are not resolued to whom it belongs principally to procure her peace . some are of opinion that princes must , and ought to prouide for the good and welfare of the common-wealth ; but as for religion , they may lawfully permit to euery man what his fancy desireth ; so that the peace of their realmes be not thereby troubled . this once was the a error of the heathen , who admitting all sects of philosophers , accounted it their honor that they refused none . wherupon saith pope b leo , this city ( speaking of rome ) ignorant of the author of her aduancement , whilest she hath ruled almost ouer al nations , hath basely bin a seruant to the errors of them al , and seemed to her selfe to haue intertained a great religion , because she hath not refused the falshood of any . this made themistius the philosopher , ( as c socrates reporteth ) to perswade valens the emperor , that the variety of sects was a thing much pleasing to god , seeing by that meanes he was worshipped after diuers manners . this though d constantine the great did at the first , ( whose fact we will not at this time examine ) yet afterward , he commanded all the temples of the idols to be shut vp , and the christian religion to be only vsed ; whose sonnes constantius and constantinus so far followed ( as saint austin saith ) the example of their father , that constantine threatned banishment to al those , who rested not in the determination of the nicene councel . the contrary was practised by the emperors iouinian , valens , and iulian , who giuing a liberty to all heretickes , sought nothing more , then the ouerthrow of the vnity of the church . but wisemen haue euer seene , that the peace and tranquilitie of the common wealth , seldome or neuer ariseth , but out of the concord and agreement of the church it selfe . the dissentions whereof , as they serue to hinder religion , so they kindle that flame , wherewithall doubtlesse in the end , the common wealth it selfe , must needs perish . but how farre all sides are from allowance of reconcilement , both the times present can testifie too well , and the ages to come must needs witnesse ; which shall possesse a church , as sonnes doe the inheritance of contentious parents , the best part whereof is wasted in vnnecessarie sutes : the sound knowledge of religion , as well perishing in the middest of dissention , as the true practise doth faile , by the plentifull abundance of too much peace . there haue beene in the world from the verie first foundation thereof , but three religions ; paganisme , which liued in the blindnesse of corrupt , and depraued nature ; iudaisme , embracing the law which reformed heathenish impietie , and taught saluation to bee looked for , through one , whō god in the last dayes , would send & exalt to be lord of al ; finally , christianisme which yeeldeth obedience to the gospell of iesus christ , and acknowledgeth him the sauiour , whom god did promise . now the question is , whether the dissenting parties , in this last religion , be so farre ( not in opinion ) but in the obiect , differing , as that there is no hope of reconciliation , and the one part only , hath but the priuiledge , to be tearmed the church . for the matter of reconcilement , it is no businesse , which lieth within the compasse of this labour , and whether , and how it may be done , we are willing to referre it to the iudgements of men , who haue better abilitie to decide the cause . a booke in latine was published , in the first beginning of these bitter contentions , without name , bearing the title , of the dutie of a godly man ; but since bellarmine saith , that the author was one george cassander ; this booke perswading that princes ought to make an agreement betwixt the catholikes , the lutherans , and caluinists , as he tearmes them ; which whilest they cannot find out the meanes to performe , they should permit to all men their seuerall religions , so that they held , both the scripture and the apostles creed : for all ( saith he ) are the true members of the church , howsoeuer in particular doctrines , they seeme to differ . this booke was first confuted by caluin , on the one side , and then by one iohn hessels of louaine , on the other side ; that all the world might see , how loth both sides were , to be made friends . this hath since beene esteemed by others , a labour , much like to those pacificants , in the emperour zeno his time , or the heresie of apelles , who held , as eusebius writeth , that it was needlesse to discusse , the particulars of our faith , and sufficient only to beleeue in christ crucified . but least any man should thinke , that our contentions were but in smaller points , and the difference not great , both sides haue charged the other , with heresies ( if not infidelities ) nay euen such , as quite ouerthrowe the principall foundation of our christian faith . how truly both haue dealt , those that are learned can best iudge ; but i am sure , that in the greatest differences , there are great mistakings , which if they were not , it is like , their dissentions had beene much lesse . now for the second , whether both parts may bee called the church , this is that which concerneth the cause that wee haue in hand . the church of england confesseth , that the church of christ , is a company of faithfull people , among whom the pure word of god is preached , and the sacraments rightly administred , according to christs institution ; so that as our reuerend fathers say , without christ there is no church ; and those particular churches , are more perfect , which in their religious worship , haue lesse failed in both these : now when enemies become iudges , sentences are often partiall , and each side with bitternesse of tearmes , doth condemne other ; whilest neither part , is willing to confesse their errour , or amend themselues . wee haue not suffered the contemptible reui●ings of the church of rome , without telling her aloud that her faults are not so few as she imagineth ; that her chastitie and puritie are not so great , that she need to boast ; and that if she will needes bee proud , and confidently striue to be the chiefe , and the onely church ; wee must tell her in zeale , that what she was , she is not ; that pride and prosperitie haue corrupted her , as other churches . this though we speake out of zeale , seeing her faults , and knowing her contempt of vs ; yet out of iudgement , we say ( which maister hooker doth ) that with rome , we dare not communicate , concerning sundrie her grosse , & grieuous abominations , yet touching those maine parts of christian truth , wherein they constantly still persist , wee gladly acknowledge them to bee of the familie of iesus christ : therefore , wee hope that to reforme our selues ( if at anie time wee haue done amisse ) is not to seuer our selues from the church wee were before ; in the church we were , and we are so stil ; as also we say , that they of rome , notwithstanding their manifold defects , are to bee held , and reputed a part of the house of god ; a limme of the visible church of christ. this is that , whereat your hote spirits haue taken offence ; speaking out of the same ignorant zeale against our church ; as ye wish our church to speake against the church of rome ; accounting vs for perfection of a church , as farre short of you , as rome is of vs ; or your selues of the angels that are in heauen ; and therefore you affirme that our statute congregations of england , are no true christian churches . which error , as you haue at last beene from an vnresistable wisedome taught how to recant , so no doubt at length , vpon better aduise , you wil learne in iudgment how to censure of the church of rome . and yet mistake me not , to giue her her due , is not to grant more then shee ought to challenge ; nor to account her a part of the church , is not to affirme that shee is absolutely perfect . there is no one word , that from the varietie of acceptation , hath bred greater difference , in the church of god , then the word church . somtimes , it is taken for any assembly ; somtimes for a faithful , & religious assembly ; and thē it sometimes noteth out the whole bodie of the elect in all ages , times , & places , both in heauen & earth ; and only them . so it is in the article of our faith , i beleeue the catholike church , that is , all those who are , or shal be saued both angels & men ; so it is taken in that speech of our sauior ; vpō this rock will i build my church , that is , the whole catholike church . somtimes it is taken for that part only , which is in heauen ; as when it is said , that the church is without spot , or wrinckle ; which can be verified of no part ▪ ( whatsoeuer the anabaptists dreame ) but of that which triumpheth . sometimes it is taken for that part of the catholike church , which is militant , that thou maist knowe howe thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of god , which is the church of the liuing god ; the piller and ground of truth ; so feare came vpon all the church . sometimes it is taken for the pastors , and gouernours onely of the church , as when it is said , tell the church , that is , the heads and gouernours of the church . sometimes for the people , take heede therefore vnto yourselues , and to all the flocke , whereof the holy ghost hath made you ouerseers , to feede the church of god , which he hath purchased with that his owne bloud . somtimes for particular churches , professing the doctrine and religion of christ : as , to the angell of the church of ephesus ; so we say , the church of rome ; the church of corinth ; the church of england : now from the mistaking of this worde ( church ) doubtlesse much harme , and needlesse contentions haue come vnto the church of christ. for in the first great contention ( of what persons the church consisteth ) in my opinion wee dispute of one church , namely , the true catholike , all which must be saued ; they dispute of the visible , wherein are hypocrites also . so that the reasons that are brought on both sides , are smally to the purpose , seeing both sides directly mistake the question . thus in the iudgment of those of the church of rome , persons excommunicate ( though vniustly ) are cut off frō the particular church , but not frō the catholike ; excommunication being only , the censure of a particular church : therfore ( saith our sauior christ ) many are called ( with an externall calling to the society of the ●isible church ) but few are chosen ; that is , to the catho●icke . for though both be a folde , yet of the visible church ( saith saint austin ) in the church there are many wolues , and out of the church there are many sheepe ; but in the catholicke , without any other mixture are sheepe only . now visible and inuisible maketh , not two churches ; but the diuers estate & condition of one , & the same church . hence cōmeth it to passe , that in this question of the visibility of the church , there is the like mistaking as in the former ; for they of rome say , we haue made this distinction , because our church hath not bin alwaies visible ; but we say , if our church had bin as glorious , and as famous , as any church in the world , we would haue accounted , the catholicke church inuisible : which ( no doubt of it ) they of rome doe , vnderstanding ( catholick and visible ) as we meane . for the church of christ , which we properly tearme his mystical body , can be but one ; neither can that one , be sensibly discerned , by any man ; in as much as the parts therof , are some in heauen already with christ , and the rest that are on earth , ( albeit their natural persons be visible ) yet we cannot discerne vnder this property , wherby they are truly and infallibly of that body ; only our minds by internal conceit , are able to apprehend , that such a real body there is , a body collectiue , ( because it conteyneth a huge multitude ) a body mystical , ( because the mystery of their coniunction is remoued altogether from sense . ) whatsoeuer we reade in scripture concerning the endles loue , and the sauing mercy , which god shewed towards his church , the only proper subiect therof is this church . they who are of this society haue such markes , and notes , of distinction from al others , as are not subiect vnto our sense ; only vnto god who seeth their harts , and vnderstandeth al their secret cogitations , vnto him , they are cleere , and manifest . in the eie of god , they are against christ , that are not truly and sincerely with him ; in our eies , they must be receiued as with christ , that are not to outward shew , against him ; to him they seeme such as they are , but of vs they must be taken for such as they seeme . al men knew nathaniel to be an israelite , but our sauiour pearsing deeper , gi●eth further testimony of him then men could haue done , with such certainty as he did ; behold indeede , an israelite , in whom is no guile . now as those euerlasting promises of loue , mercy , and blessednes , belong to the mystical church , euen so on the other side , when wee reade of any duty , which the church of god is bounde vnto ; the church whom this doth concerne , is a sensible knowne company ; and this visible church in like sort is but one , continued from the first beginning of the world to the last end : which company , beeing deuided into two parts , the one before , the other since the comming of christ ; that part which since the comming , partly hath imbraced , and partly shal hereafter imbrace the christian religion , we tearme as by a proper name , the church of christ. for all make but one body , the vnity of which visible body , and the church of christ , consisteth in that vniformity , which al seueral persons thereunto belonging haue by reason of y e one lord , whose seruants they all professe thēselues to be , that one faith , which they al acknowledge ; that one baptisme , wherwith they are al receiued into the church . as for those vertues , y t belong vnto morall righteousnes , & honesty of life ; we do not speake of them , because they are not proper vnto christian mē , as they are christian , but do concerne thē , as they are men . true it is , the wa●t of these vertues , excludeth from saluation ; so doth much more the absence of inward beleefe of heart ; so doth despaire and lack of hope ; so emptinesse of christian loue and charity ; but we speake now , of the visible church , whose children are signed with this marke ; one lord , one faith , one baptisme . in whomsoeuer these things are ▪ the church doth acknowledge them for her children ; them only she holdeth for aliens and strangers , in whom these things are not found . for want of these , it is that saracens , iewes , and infidels are excluded out of the bounds of the church ; others we may not ( though you doe ) denie to be of the visible church , as long as these things are not wanting in them . for apparant it is , that al men are of necessity , either christians , or not christians ; if by externall profession , they be christians , then are they of the visible church of christ ; and christians by externall profession they are all , whose marke of recognisance hath in it those things which we haue mentioned : yea although they be impious idolaters , wicked hereticks , persons excommunicable , such as we deny not to be euen the lims of satan , as long as they continue such . is it then possible , say you , that the selfesame men should belong both to the synagogue of satan , and to the church of christ ? vnto that church , which is his mystical bodie , not possible ; because that bodie consisteth of none , but only true israelits ; true sonnes of abraham , true seruants , and saints of god. howbeit of the visible body and church of christ , those may be , and oftentimes are , in respect of the maine parts of their outward profession , who in regard of their inward disposition of minde , yea of externall conuersation , yea euen of some parts of their very profession , are most worthily both hatefull in the sight of god himselfe , and in the eies of the sounder parts of the visible church , most execrable . from hence haue proceeded those bitter speeches , wherewith many of our reuerend fathers haue censured the church of rome : as also those violent courses , and vnseemely , which they haue hitherto vsed against vs. therefore our sauiour compareth the kingdome of heauen , to a net , whereunto al that commeth neither is nor seemeth fishe ; his church he compareth to afield , where tares manifestly knowne and seene by all men doe grow , intermingled with good corne ; and so shall continue til the final consummation of the world . god hath had euer , and euer shall haue , some church visible vpon earth . but for lack of diligent obseruing , the difference , first betwixt the church of god , mystical and visible ; then betweene the visible , sound , and corrupted , sometimes more , sometimes lesse , the ouersights are neither few , nor light , that haue bin committed : this deceiueth them , and nothing else , who thinke that in the time of the first world , the family of noah , did containe al that were of the visible church of god. from hence it grew , and from no other cause in the world , that the affrican bishops , in the councel of carthage , knowing how the administration of baptisme belongeth only to the church of christ , and supposing that hereticks , which were apparantly seuered from the sound beleeuing church , could not possiblie be of the church of iesus christ , thought it vtterly against reason , that baptisme administred by men of corrupt beleefe , should be accounted as a sacrament . some of the fathers were earnest , especially saint cyprian , in this point : but i hope you haue not yet proceeded so farre . this opinion was afterwards both cōdemned by a better aduised councel , and also reuoked by the chiefest of the authors therof themselues : and therfore as it is strāge for any man to denie them of rome to be of the church ; so i cannot but wonder , that they will aske where our church was , before the birth of martin luther ; as if any were of opinion that luther did erect a new church of christ. no , the church of christ , which was from the beginning , is , and continueth in substance the same vnto the end ; of which , al parts haue not bin alwaies equally sincere and sound . in the daies of abiha , it plainly appeareth , that iuda was by many degrees more free from pollution , then israel : in saint paules time , the integrity of rome , was famous ; corinth many waies reproued ; they of galathia much more out of square : in iohns time , ephesus and s●yrna , in better state , then thiatyra and pergamus were ; and yet all of them , no doubt , parts of the visible church ; so standeth the cause , betwixt rome and vs ; so farre as lawfully we may , we haue held , and do hold fellowship with them ; we acknowledge thē , to be of the family of iesus christ ; and our heartie prayer vnto god almightie is , that being conioyned , so farre forth with them , they may at length , if it be his will , so yeeld to frame , and reforme themselues , that no distraction remaine in anie thing , but that we all , may with one heart , and one mouth glorifie god , the father of our lord , and sauiour , whose church we are . as there are , which make the church of rome no church at all , vtterly : so we haue them amongst vs , who vnder pretence of imagined corruptions in our discipline , do giue , euen as hard a iudgement of the church of england it selfe . but whatsoeuer either the one sort , or the other teach , we must acknowledge , euen heretikes themselues , to bee ( though a maimed part ) yet a part of the visible church . for as to baptize is a proper action , belonging vnto none but the church of christ , which is true in the church of rome ( howsoeuer some anabaptists account it but a mockerie ) so if an infidell , should pursue to death an heretike , professing christianitie , onely for christian profession sake , could the church denie him the honour of martyrdome ? yet this honour all men know to be proper vnto the church ; and therefore where the fathers make opposition betwixt the visible church , and hereticall companies ( as often times they doe ) they are to bee construed , as separating heretikes , not altogether from the companie of beleeuers , but from the fellowship of sound beleeuers : for where profest vnbeleefe is , there can be no visible church of christ ; there may be where sound beleefe wanteth . infidels being cleane without the church , denie directly , and vtterly reiect , the very principles of christianity ; which heretikes imbrace , and erre onely , in misconstruction . and therefore it is strange that you dare affirme ; the turke to hold any part of the christian faith , or to bee in that respect comparable to the church of rome : for that which separateth vtterly , that which cutteth off cleane , from the visible church of christ , is , as maister hooker saith , plaine apostasie ; direct deniall ; vtter reiection of the whole christian faith ; as farre as the same is professedly different , from infidelitie . heretikes , as touching those points of doctrine wherein they faile ; schismatikes , as touching the quarrels , for which , or the duties wherein they diuide themselues from their brethren ; loose , licentious , and wicked persons , as touching their seuerall offences , or crimes ; haue all forsaken the true church of god , the church which is sound and sincere , in the doctrine ; that they corrupt : the church that keepeth the bond of vnitie , which they violate : the church that walketh in the lawes of righteousnesse , which they transgresse : this verie true church of christ , they haue left ; howbeit not altogether left , nor forsaken simply the church , vpon the maine foundations whereof , they continue built , notwithstanding these breaches , whereby they are rent at the top asunder . but peraduenture you will say , why then doe wee refuse to communicate with the church of rome , more then zacharie , elizabeth , anna , and others , did with the high priests ? corruptions being in both , and both remaining parts of the church of god ? i answer , that in the time of our sauiour christ , the synagogue of the iewes , although it was not in regard of the high priests , and chiefe doctors in all respects , the true visible church ; yet in some sort , it was ; because the remainders of religion , were left , & the worship instituted of god himselfe , was not wholy taken away : so with the papists we would not be affraid to communicate , in our liturgie , if it were not in respect of their superstitious order , & some prayers which are idolatrous , for which we haue some reasons , as yet to doubt , that they haue no warrant . we must all of vs be ioined to the true church , else we cannot be saued , that is to the catholicke ▪ not the visible : for doubtles a man may bee saued , that liueth not in any particular church ; or that is excommunicated from all : yet we say , thus much ; that we must ioyne ourselues to some particular church , if wee will be saued ; with this twofold caution , if such a church be knowne vnto vs ; or if it be possible to ioyne vnto it . wherein , because euerie particular may erre , yet none absolutely exclude from saluation , all men haue reason to ioyne with that , that is most sound . this then were the fittest point , to bee discust with moderation , and learning : that seeing all churches haue some vnsound parts in them , which church is to be reputed at this day the soundest of all the rest . doubtlesse the church of rome , was once a light to all the churches of the world ; but through the corruptions of some , those diseases haue somwhat infected the church , which now to the sorrow of christendome , like a canker , or leprosie , haue inlarged themselues . as there is a contention when adam fell ; so histories varie , when this defection beganne : some make fiue or sixe hundred yeares to be the continuance of her sound estate ; some three hundreth ; some to erre , euen from the apostles time . doubtlesse in the apostles time , there were heretikes in the church ; the nicholaitans , simon magus , cerinthus , & others . eusebius reporteth out of egesippus , that although as long as the apostles liued , the church did remaine a pure virgin , yet after those times , immediately , errours crept into the church . clemens alexandrinus , to confirme that there was corruption of doctrine presently after the apostles time , alleageth the prouerbe , there are few sons like their fathers . socrates saith of the church of rome and alexandria ( the most famous churches in the apostles time ) that about the yeare 430. the roman and alexandrian bishops , leauing their sacred function , were degenerate to a secular rule or dominion . yet we say not , that all before gregorie , were sound , nor all after , corrupt : yet their errours grew on by little and little , euen from those men , whose reuerend names , gaue warrant to what they held ; they thinking nothing ●esse , then by those meanes to haue corrupted the church . but shee may when it pleaseth god , recouer her former soundnesse againe ; if we had but so much care of them , as they seeme to haue of vs ; or that all sides peaceably with indifferencie , would admit the true vse of a generall councell . but let their errours be as they are ; we leaue them , to bee reproued by those , whom that businesse doth concerne , and to bee iudged by the searcher of all hearts : yet for all that , we affirme them to be parts of the church of christ ; and that those , that liue , and die in that church , may notwithstanding bee saued . of those who are of a contrarie opinion in a good meaning , i say with lactantius , with howe good a meaning these poore soules do euill . to conclude , least you should thinke maister hooker to bee arrogant , and presumptuous , to make himselfe ( as you say ) the onely rabbi ; know that hee hath saide nothing , which that honourable frenchman of worthie memorie hath not said before , with great wisdome , moderation , and learning . but if you cannot bee resolued without a miracle , as you scoffingly seeme to desire , wee can but in our prayers recommend your weakenesse to the god of all power , and the fountaine of all light . article xii . of preaching . how hard it is , for those who are in loue with themselues , to car●e a well tempered indifferencie , betwixt that , which they out of ignorance performe , and others , out of iudgement auoid ; this article alone may serue , as euidence sufficient to perswade all . for euen , in the matter , of greatest vse vnto gods church ( the dispensation of the word of life ) a vehement dislike of those things , which they cannot attaine , hath wrought too violēt an opposition , for the ouerthrow of that course , which learning and truth haue held not to be the weakest meanes , to support the same . hence commeth it to passe , that whilest al grant the word to be powerful and effectual ; some thinke , this is only true , of the word preached ; which otherwise , hath smal vertue , except it be in sermōs ; & those sermōs only , to haue this power , which are of their own making . causing the holy ghost , whose strēgth is perfected in weakenes , to be necessarily tied , to a defect of al outward ornaments ; as though that almighty power , vpon whom euer excellency depēds , euē in the weakest meanes , were of lesse authority , or lesse power , whē the meanes which he vseth , were more excellent : thus depriuing the church of variety of guifts , who out of obedience and humility , hath learned how to profit by all . but , as to tie the power of conuerting sinners , to that which is eloquently strong in humaine wisdome , were a thing not safe , & iniurious to the church ; so to bee too earnest , against al outward ornaments , through an affectation of pure simplicity , is an error no lesse dangerous then the former was . for seeing those that teach are not all , either capeable , or furnisht , with the same guifts , and that continually , there is no lesse variety in those that heare ; it is the wisdome , and discretion of the church , for a better attainmēt of a more perfect estate , to learne with thankfulnes and reuerence how to profit by all . for as it is impossible , that anie one forme of teaching should please or perswade all men , ( a prerogatiue which was not graunted to the first and best sermons ) whose excellencie was that they conuerted many , but not all ; so the rest , who yet are not , but must be conuerted , are to expect ( though not with curiosity to affect ) a variety for the manner , euen of that which in substance and end , is but meerely one . for the mysticall body , as it is ful of variety and diuersity in his parts , yet in it selfe but one ; so the working is manifold , & different , though the beginning and the end , gods power , and his glory be in truth , to , and for all men , but one . for sometimes the word , by being read proposeth , and preacheth it selfe to the hearer ; sometimes they deliuer it , whom priuately zeale and piety moueth to be instructors of others , by conference ; sometimes , of them it is taught , whom the church hath called to the publick , either reading thereof , or interpreting ; & by them after a most diuers manner ; but all tending to one ende , for which god hath made his visible church to be that congregation of faithfull people , wherein the pure word of god is preached : so that in this respect we refuse not , to make the preaching of the word ( taking the word preaching for all manner of teaching ) to be an essentiall note , of the church . for doubtles in that parable of the sower , by you alledged , we mislike not much the interpretation of that reuerend bishop which you bring forth , as opposite to maister hooker ; saying , god is the husbandman , the preachers of the word are the seed sowers , the seede is the word of god , the ground is the harts of men ; and yet saint austin , differeth a little from this exposition , where he saith , the sower is god , and i , because he soweth , what am i but the seedmans basket ? which euen the meanest christian no doubt is , though neuer called to the office of preaching , if he can by priuate conference , exhort and instruct out of holy scripture : which as it is an acte of lesse honor , and profit , then the preaching of those , that are worthily called to that office ; so euen , in their sermons that are called , there is no man but must acknowledge , a manifold , and apparant difference . for seeing speech ( as maister hooker saith ) ( which you mislike ) is the very image , whereby the mind , and soule of the speaker , conueyeth itselfe into the bosome of him that heareth ; we cannot chuse , but see great reason , wherfore the word , that proceedeth from god ( who is in him selfe very truth and life ) should be ( as the apostle to the hebrues noteth ) liuely , and mighty in operation , sharper then any two edged sword . now , to make our sermons that strong , & forcible word , is to impart the most peculiar glory of the word of god , vnto that which is not his word . for touching our sermons , that which giueth them their very being , is the will of man ; and therefore , they oftentimes , accordingly tast too much of that ouer-corrupt fountaine , from which they come . for euen the best of our sermons , ( and in sermons there is an infinite difference ) howsoeuer they oftentimes , haue a singular blessing , and that the scripture , the pure word of god , is the text and the ground of the speech ; yet the rest of the discourse , which is sometimes two , or three houres long , ( a time too long for most preachers to speake pertinently ) is but the paraphrasticall inlarging of the same text , together with those fit exhortations and applications , which the learning of the preacher , is able to furnish himselfe withall , and his discretion shall thinke fit for that auditory to which he speaketh . and therfore , as to equalize euery declamation , or oration in schooles , to them , is to wrong sermons ; so to make , euen the best sermons , equall to the scripture , must be in apparant reason a great wrong , to that which is immediately gods own word ; wherunto , though the best preach agreeably , yet the sermons of none , since the apostles time , are or ought to be esteemed of equall authority with the holy scripture : and yet , we are not afraide , to ascribe vnto them , that blessing from aboue , to conuert , reforme , and strengthen , which no eloquence , wisedome , learning , policie , and power of the world , is able to match . neither is there contrariety in this , that we that are the preachers are sent as the apostles were , in respect of our calling from god ; and yet , that the learning , and wit of man , giueth the very beeing vnto that wee teach . vnlesse ( which some ouerboldly doe ) you thinke it vnlawfull to vse either learning or wit , in making of sermons : as though all other helpes , purchased with great cost , and infinite labour , together with a naturall ability , all perfected in those excellent fountaines of all learning , the vniuersities , were to be reiected , as wholy vnprofitable in this busines . neither doth master hooker , or any other of iudgement say ( which you seeme to infer ) that a man by natural witte , without a supernaturall light , from the scripture , is able to vtter those mysteries as he ought ; which doubtlesse being a great fault , is rather the error of those who preach most , and yet vse least helps of learning or wit , for that they vtter . wherein it must needs seeme strange , that they euer vnderstanding by the word , the worde preached ; whereunto they ascribe vitall operation ; yet they performe this with such negligence , that they come rashly , vnfurnished , to so great a businesse ; and scarce attentiuely weigh the dangerous sequell , of this construction . doubtlesse , our sermons , euen the best , either for sound knowledge , or pure zeale , are not gods word in the same manner that the sermōs of the prophets were ; no , they are but ambiguously tearmed his word , because his word , is commonly the subiect , wherof they treate , and must be the rule whereby they are framed . yet sermons haue sundrie , peculiar , and proper vertues , such as no other way of teaching besides hath : aptnesse to follow particular occasions presently growing ; to put life into words , by countenance , voice and gesture ; to preuaile mightily in the sodaine affections of men ; these and such like , are those excellent prerogatiues , which some few may challēg , who worthily deserue the name to be called preachers . we reiect not ( as of no vse at all in the church ) euen the vertuous labours of meaner men , who come far short of the perfection of these few ; but earnestly wish the gouernours of our church , for fitte imployment and maintenance , to respect both : and they laying aside all comparisons , equally to labour to further that worke , which by a blessing from aboue , knoweth how to profit by the labours of all . it seemeth by that which you allege , that only such sermons , haue their beeing , from the wit of man , which curiously bring into the pulpit , poets ; philosophers ; rhetoricians ; phisitions ; schoolemen , and other humaine learning ; which the reuerend fathers , say you , and more staid diuines , are war●e to auoid . in this speech of yours , in my opinion , there are two faults . the first , a particular vniust censure , of the fathers , whether you meane , the holy fathers of the church , as saint austine , saint ambrose , saint gregorie , saint bernard , and the rest ; or those reuerend fathers which doe liue at this day ; all which , whilest you seeke to commend , directly you dispraise ; accounting them , to auoid all humane learning , and that their sermons , haue not their being from the wit of man : which doubtlesse is false , seeing they excell by infinite degrees , the sermons of manie others which are framed , by neither . the second fault , is a generall taxation of all those , who anie way furnish their sermons with humane learning . you may peraduenture be able , to giue good direction in other points , but surely in framing of a preacher , or making of a sermon , you are much deceiued : for i can neuer perswade my selfe , that the exactest industrie that man can vse , is vnlawfull or vnnecessarie in this worke ; for sometimes , we are to deale with those , whose opinions are not easily confuted without humane learning ; nor their attention gained without wit ; nor their affections perswaded without eloquence ; where to come vnfurnisht , and leaue the workings without meanes , to him who giueth a power , and a blessing to the meanes we vse , is all one to appoint him what meanes are fittest , or to inioyne him to worke without meanes at all : which , though that almightie power can do , yet then to refuse thē , when they are prouided , or not to furnish vs , with as much as we can of the best that he hath prouided , it argueth our vnthankfulnesse , and our want of choise . this made ( when celsus , iulian , and porphyry , had written against vs ) the holy fathers to confute them , with all varietie of humane learning ; that thus the enemies of that truth , which we teach , may say with iulian , we are strooke through with our owne weapons . this was the happines of epiphanius ( whi●● i wish were common to all preachers ) that his writings were read of the learned for the matter , of the simple for the words . thus we should not doubt but to win an attention from all ; nay euen for the true discharging of this businesse , there is a necessarie vse of grammar , to teach the originall & proprietie of words ; of logicke , to discerne ambiguities ; of rhetoricke , for ornament ( a good tale being much better , when it is well told ; ) of philosophie , for the vnfolding the true nature of causes ; the ignorance whereof , hath brought much error in expounding the holy scriptures ; of historie , for the computation of times ; in one word , of all humane learning , which like the spoiles of egypt , we haue recouered from the vniust owners ; accounting it no more disgrace to be accused of eloquence , wit , or humane learning , then s. austin did , by petilian , to be termed tertullus the orator . there be that account inciuilitie of maners , and rusticitie of speech , as saint hierome speaketh , true holinesse . but it is not fit , that those that are toothlesse should enuie the teeth of others ; or those that are moules , repine that others see ( as the same father admonisheth calphurnius . ) it hath beene a trouble , of some of our best and most excellent preachers , that they haue beene inforced , after their wearisome ●oiling , and vnregarded paines , to giue a reason , and make a defence ( as though they had committed a fault ) for the vse of that , for which in true estimation , they ought to haue reaped much praise . and therfore saith one ( whom i dare oppose , for eloquence and iudgement , against the best in that great city of the contrarie faction ) i am not of opinion with those men , who thinke that all secular , and prophane learning should be abandoned from the lips of the preacher , and that whether hee teach , or exhort , he is of necessitie to tie himselfe , to the sentence and phrase of only scripture . good is good , wheresoever i find it : vpon a withered and fruitlesse stalke , saith s. austin , a grape sometimes may hang ; shall i refuse the grape because the stalk is fruitlesse and withered ? there is not any knowledg of learning to be despised , seeing that all science whatsoeuer , is in the nature & kind of good things ; rather those that despise it , we must repute rude , & vnprofitable altogether , who would bee glad that all men were ignorant , that their owne ignorance lying in the common heape , might not be espied . and s. austin in in another place , saith , eloquence is not euill , but a sophisticall malignant profession , proposing to it selfe , not as it meaneth , but either of contention , or for commodity sake , to speake for all things , & against all things . what were more profitable , then the eloquence of donatus , parmenian , & others of your sect , if it ran with as free a streame , for the peace , vnity , truth , and loue of christ , as it floweth against it ? for els it is a venimous eloquence , as saint cyprian wrote of the eloquence of nouatus ; i know there is much amisse , both in matter , and in the vse of prophane learning ; but this we are sure , if we bring it to the scripture , if it bee faultie , it is condemned ; if wholsome , it is there confirmed . and i see no reason , that any man should be bold , to offer his owne inuentions , and conceits to the world , when hee findeth such , in the fathers , and others , as cannot be amended . i am sorie that the learned of any sort ( as my author saith ) that hath but born a book , should dispraise learning ; she hath enemies enough abroad , though she bee iustified by her children . it is fitter that wisedome , bee beaten by fooles , then by those who ought to be esteemed wise ; aboue all other places , a blow giuen in the pulpit against learning ( a fault too common ) leaueth a scarre in the face of knowledge , which cannot easily be cured . it calleth in question , the reaching of others , as if they fed the people with acorns & husks , not bread ; or because they gather the truth out of humane authours , they contemned the authority of the holy scriptures . doubtlesse , it is somtime vanity in those that preach , & itching in those that heare , & a thing not tolerable , or allowable in either ; but where it is otherwise , let not a ras● conclusion without proofe ( as though it were young mens faults ) bee admitted against good learning . if asclepiodorus will draw with a cole , or chauke alone , i iudge him not ; if others , wil paint with colours , neither let them be iudged : for those , that are wise , and humble in the church , know how with discretion to make vse of all ; and yet , not all of the like authoritie . for doctrines deriued , exhortations deducted , interpretations agreeable , are not the verie word of god , but that onely , which is in the originall text , or truly translated ; and yet we call those sermons , though improperly , the word of god. to conclude this point , as our church hath manie excellent preachers , which we wish by good incouragement may increase ; so it is too presumptuous a labour for any , to prescribe one forme necessarie to all . but i could wish that all were like him whom you accuse , or like one marianus genazanensis , whom angelus politianus doth excellently describe , in my opinion an excellent patterne of a reuerend diuine . article xiii . of the ministers office . in the actions of this life , whether spirituall or temporal , god and man giue their approbation in a diuers maner ; the one looketh onely at the thing done , the other at the mind & disposition of the doer . and therefore , the same things from diuers parties , are not of the same , nor of like value : nay , that which is from sinceritie , a worship ; is from hypocrisie , a sin : and the defects , which outwardly the maner of doing disproueth , the sinceritie oftentimes in the mind of the doer , acquiteth . in the eye of man , it is sometimes a fault which is no sin ; & in the eye of god , a sin , which in the eye of man , was no fault . so that according to lawes , which principally respect the heart of man , works of religion being not religiously performed , cānot morally be perfect . baptisme as an ecclesiasticall work , is for the maner of performāce ordered by diuers ecclesiastical lawes , prouiding , that as the sacrament it self , is a gift of no mean worth ; so the ministerie thereof might in all circumstances , appeare to bee a function of no small regarde . the ministerie of the things diuine , is a function , which as god did himselfe institute ; so neither may men vndertake the same , but by authority and power giuen them in lawfull manner . that god which is no way deficient or wanting vnto man in necessaries , and hath therfore giuen vs the light of his heauenly truth , because without that inestimable benefit , we must needes haue wandred in darknesse , to our endles perdition ; and who hath in the like aboundance of mercies , ordeined certaine to attend vpon the due execution , of requisite parts , and offices , therein prescribed , for the good of the whole world ; which men therunto assigned , doe hold their authority from him , whether they be such as himselfe immediately , or else the church in his name inuesteth ; it being neither possible , for all , nor for euery man , without distinction conuenient , to take vpon him a charge of so great importance : and therfore very fitly , the church of england affirmeth , that it is not lawfull for any one , to take to himselfe the office of preaching publikely , or administring the sacraments , in the church , except he be first lawfully called to doe th●se things : for god who hath reserued , euen from the first beginning of the world , vntill the end therof , a church vnto himselfe , vpon earth ; against which , the gates of hell , shall not preuaile ; hath likewise appointed , a perpetuall ministery for the seruice therein ; which though for outward calling hath not bin euer the same , yet continually it was limited , in those bounds , as a thing most vnmeet , and vnlawfull , for any man to vndertake , that was not called . for as it is gods infinite mercie , when he could either saue vs without the ministry of any , or by the ministry of angels ; yet then to honor man , with this dignity to make him a coadiutor , dispenser , and cohelper in so great a worke ; so it is his wisdome to appoint both for the auoiding of confusion , and vnfitnesse , such persons as are truly allotted to so honorable an office ; which neither before , vnder , or after the law , was euer lawfull , without any calling to vndertake . the enemies to this religious order of the church , haue bin certaine louers of confusion , which vnder pretence of the calling of the spirit , haue ouerboldly intruded themselues , into those holy functions ; for which lawfully they had neuer warrant . such were the enthusiasts , anabaptists , schwenkfeldians , who being enemies to all order , vnder pretence of a calling from the holy-ghost , which others wanted , haue made a passage contrary to that restraint of the apostle , ( let no man take vpon him that honor to himselfe , but he that is called of god ) without expectation of lawfull warrant , to those duties , that in the church are greatest : for in the time before the law , it was not permitted to take the office of priesthood , vnlesse he either were or had the prerogatiue of the eldest brother . this was for the sinne of ruben deriued to the tribe of louie ; first for their zeale , in that great idolatry ; and was after confirmed vnto him , in the sedition of corah : and yet not to all of that family , either to serue in that tabernacle , or to teach throughout all israel . neither were all ages equally fit vnto this calling ; it being neither lawfull before fiue and twenty , nor after fifty to be admitted to it : as also those , that were admitted , had a speciall consecration , for a personall difference , from the rest of that family , to let them vnderstand , that although they , and only they of that tribe , were to be imployed in those functions , yet it was not lawfull to vndertake it , without a calling : this afterward , whē better notes of eminencie gaue that allowance which before birth did , was with greater reuerence to be expected , and to be obserued with a greater care , by those whom the church had inuested , with authority to call vnto that charge . to these persons , because god imparted power ouer his mysticall bodie , which is the society of soules , and ouer that naturall , which is himselfe , for the knitting of both in one ( a worke which antiquity doth call the making of christs body ) the same power is in such , not amisse both tearmed a kind of marke , or character , and acknowledged to be indeleble . for ministeriall power , is a marke of separation , because it seuereth them that haue it from other men , and maketh them a speciall order , consecrated vnto the seruice of the most high , in things wherewith others may not meddle . their difference therfore from other men is , in that they are a distinct order : and i call it indeleble , because they which haue once receiued this power , as maister hooker saith , may not thinke to put it off and on like a cloake , as the weather serueth , to take it , reiect and resume it , as oft as themselues liste : of which prophane and impious contempt , these latter times haue yeelded ( as of all other kinds of iniquity and apostasie ) strange examples . but let them know , which put their hands to this plough , that once consecrated vnto god , they are made his peculiar inheritance for euer . suspensions may stoppe , and degradations vtterly cutte off , the vse or exercise of power giuen ; but voluntarily it is not in the power of man , to separate and pull asunder , what god by his authority coupleth : neither neede there a reordinatiō for such as were consecrated by the church , in corrupter times ; for out of men indued with gifts of the spirit , the church chose her ministers , vnto whom was giuen ecclesiasticall power by ordination , which they could neither assume , or reiect at their owne pleasure . of these , without doubt the apostolick churches , did acknowledge but three degrees at the first ; apostles ( in stead whereof are now bishops ) presbyters , and deacons ; for there is an error ( as maister hooker saith ) which beguileth many , who much entangle both themselues and others , by not distinguishing , seruices , offices , and orders ecclesiasticall ; the first of which three , and in part the second , may be executed by the laity , whereas none haue , or can haue the third , namely ( order ) but the clergie . catechists , exorcists , readers , singers , and the rest of like sort , if the nature only of their labour , and paines be considered , may in that respect seeme clergie men ; euen as the fathers for that cause tearme them vsually clerks ; as also in regard of the end whereunto they were trained vp ; which was to enter into orders , when yeeres and experience should make them able ; notwithstanding in as much as they no way differed from others of the laity , longer then during that work of seruice , which at any time they might giue ouer , beeing thereunto but admitted , not tyed by irreuocable ordination ; we finde them alwaies , exactly seuered from that body , whereof those three before rehearsed orders , alone are naturall parts . this will appeare more fully ( howsoeuer you mislike it ) ●f we consider but a little , those seruices , and duties , about which they were imployed . the first were doorekeepers , ( for we omitte the first tonsor , which was not any order but a preparation ) whose office was , as maister caluin noteth , to open and to shut the doores of the temple ; we agree in this with the church of rome ; our diffrenece is , for the ordination of them . the second were readers , the duty of these , as zanchy saith , was only to reade the bible , without any exposition , in a pulpit or place more eminent then the rest ; so that in the compasse of a whole yeere , it was fully finished and read ouer : this was to make the people who could not read , more familiarly acquainted with the holy scriptures . of this duty , s. cyprian in his epistles , hath written most ; as of one aurelius , beeing made a reader ▪ of one satur●s ; as also of celerinus , which afterward was a martyr . the difference betwixt vs , in this point , and the church of rome , is , that they make it a certaine degree and order , which maister caluin doth not ; which in my opinion is no material difference , seeing vndoubtedly the church by speciall ordination ( without ecclesiasticall order ) appointed those , whom she vsed in those places . the next were exorcists , with vncleane spirits ; but this was rather doubtlesse a peculiar gift , then any ordinary office in gods church . the next were disputers , which were appointed with all commers to defend the religion , against the heathen . the next were acolouthi , attendants vpon the bishops , with whom these had for their learning , and reuerend behauiour , that familiarity , that they were thought fittest to succeede in the place of bishops . this , as it was an imployment of great respect ; so it is retained in the church of rome at this day , with too meane a regard for so reuerend a place . the next were singers : for it was thought vnfit , that a bishop , a presbyter , or deacon , should doe this . the last which we wil reckon , was the catechists , whose office was to teach children , and others conuerted , the summe of christian doctrine . this dutie was referred to learned men ; sometimes presbyters , doctors , or deacons ; but not euer . for though origen and clemens , were both doctors , and catechists in alexandria ; yet all that were catechists , and so allowed to expound , and teach the scriptures , were not of necessitie admitted to holy orders : and so consequently , as the word is properly taken by maister hooker , none of the clergie . i say properly , for clergie is a general name for all those , whose lot , and portion is the lord : more specially for those , who are students in diuinity , & after are to enter into holy orders . of these , there were colledges after the apostles ; as before , colledges of the prophets . and out of these , were taken such , as the church ( without ecclesiasticall ordination ) vsed in those seruices , which before are mentioned . out of all which , it is most apparant , that from the clergie in respect of ministeriall power , these are iustly seuered . this is that which you mislike , esteeming it a thing vnfit for any man to preach , that hath not a ministerial calling . neither doth maister hooker determine how fit it is , that this should be performed , by men who are not entred into orders ; but that this hath sometimes beene the practise of the church , howsoeuer now performed by men of another calling ; there is no man of anie reading can possibly doubt : neither is the practise in some colledges of diuines at this day , altogether vnlike ; where men are admitted , euen for exercise , or triall , to interpret & expound the scriptures , which are not as yet ( but hereafter may be ) consecrated to an ecclesiasticall function . now , whereas you scoffe at the word character , as if there were no stamp at al which made a difference betwixt the clergie and the laity : know , that where there is a chāge of estate , with an impossibility of returne , there we haue reason to account an indeleble character to bee imprinted . this faith the church of rome , is in baptisme , confirmation , & order . of the last of which , we only contend at this time : for any thing that i reade , saint austin was the first that vsed the word in this sense ; and no doubt of it , in baptisme there is that mark stamped vpon vs , in that we are baptized , that there is a passiue power , as the schoolemen call it , which maketh a man in time fit to receiue the rest , which they cal sacraments , and without which , they are truly accounted void . this forme , figure , impession , or character , is called indeleble , because that is not to be reiterated , frō whence it commeth . the character of order , is an actiue power , as the schoolemen speake , which giueth an abilitie publikely to administer the sacramēts , vnto those , whō the church hath esteemed fit . from whence proceedeth the second great exception , which you haue taken in this article , namely , that maister hooker seemeth to grant a libertie , as for cat●chists to preach , who are no ministers ; so also for women in cases of some necessitie to baptise , contrary , say you , both to that most reuerend archbishop , and others , who constantly affirme , that god , & wel ordred churches forbid women all dispensation of holy mysteries . wee are not to dispute , what lawes giue allowance to the performance of this office , nor what care ought to make restraint from too vsuall a libertie of doing it without great necessitie ; seeing weaknesse is commonly bold , and boldnesse a presumptuous intruder , where it hath least cause . but this we say , which m. hooker hath pro●ed already , that baptisme by women is truly baptisme , good , and effectual to those that haue it : neither doe all those exceptions of sexe , qualitie , insufficiencie , or whatsoeuer , serue to frustrate , such as the church of her indulgence , is willing to admit , from being partakers of so great a benefit . to make women teachers in the house of god , were a grosse absurditie , seeing the apostle hath said , i permit not a woman to teach : and if any from the same ground , exclude them frō other publike offices in the church , wee are not much against it . but to womens baptisme in priuate , by occasion of vrgent necessitie , the reasons that concerne ordinarie baptisme in publike , are no iust preiudice ; neither can we by force thereof , disproue the practise of those churches , which ( necessity requiring ) allow baptisme , in priuate to be administred by women . we may not from lawes that prohibite any thing with restraint , conclude absolute , and vnlimitted prohibitions . for euen things lawfull , are well prohibited , when there is feare , least they make the way to vnlawful more easie ; & it may be , the libertie of baptisme by women , at such times , doth sometimes embolden the rasher sort to do it , where no such necessity is . but whether of permission besides law , or in presumption against law , they do it ( which now is no part of the question in hand ) it is not hereby altogether frustrate , void , and as if it were neuer giuen . true it is , that seeing god , from whom mens seuerall degrees , & preheminences proceed , hath appointed them in his church , at whose hands his pleasure is that we should receiue baptisme ; and all other publike helpes medicinable to the soule ; perhaps thereby the more to settle our hearts , in the loue of our ghostly superiors ; they haue small cause to hope that with him , their voluntarie seruices will be accepted , who thrust themselues into functions , either aboue their capacitie , or besides their place , and ouerboldly intermeddle with duties , whereof no charge was euer giuen vnto them . in which respect , if lawes forbid it to be done , yet therefore it is not necessarily void when it is done . for many things are firme being done , which in part are done , otherwise thē positiue rigor , and strictnes did require . actions vsurped haue often the same nature , which they haue in others , although they yeeld not him that doth them the same comfort . what defects then are in this kind , they redound with restraint to the offender only ; the grace of baptisme commeth by donation from god onely . that god hath committed the mysterie of baptisme vnto speciall men , it is for orders sake in his church , and not to the intent that their authoritie might giue being , or adde force to the sacrament it selfe . infants haue right to baptisme , we all know ; that they haue it not by lawfull ministers , it is not their fault ; mens owne faults are their owne harmes . so then wee conclude this point , with maister hooker , that it is one thing to defend the fact for lawfulnesse in the doer ( which few do ) and another thing the fact being done , which no man hath reason to disallow ; for though it is not lawfull for women to vndertake that office to baptize , which peraduenture belongs not vnto them ; yet the baptisme being done , we hold it lawfull . article xiiii . of the sacraments . it is not a thing lesse vsuall in the apprehension of truths , through the weaknesse of our vnderstanding , to ascribe too little , to that which in all reason hath great vertue ; then to allow ouermuch to that , which hath no vertue at all . it fareth with men in this kind , as it doth with some deceitfull artificers ; who bestow most arte and outward additions , where inwardly there is least value , whilest they leaue that altogether vnfurnished , which is able to expose it to sale , by his owne worth . it is our fault , no lesse violently to extoll , what our fancies make vs to account excellent , then to dispraise things truly commendable in their owne nature , because onely they haue gained this disaduantage , to bee disliked by vs. so that whosoeuer maketh , either praise , or dispraise to be a rule of iudgement , or the iudgement of some few , to bee a signe of value , he with like hazard equally erreth in both . for times and places , violent circumstances , of that which men say with or against , breed infinite varietie of alterations , where things are the same ; and out of commendation alone ( a strange effect ) dispraise like a monster , doth spring vp : it being cause sufcient to distempered humours , vehemently to dislike , only in this respect , that others doe commend the same . wherein , the safest , and most charitable direction , will bee absolutely in that violent opposition to beleeue neither ; but euen from both , to deriue a truth much sounder then that which either holdeth : from hence hath it come to passe , that whilest they of the church of rome , haue peraduenture ascribed too much to works , some of vs too little , others haue set downe an equality , dissenting from both . thus in the matter of the sacraments , ( things of greatest and most hidden vertue left vnto the church , ( for they are called mysteries ) some haue bin thought to deriue that power to them , which belongeth to god only ; which , whilest others sought to auoide , they haue euen depriued them , of that grace , which god doubtles in truth hath bestowed vpon them . in this kinde you are of opinion , that m. hooker hath erred , who as you imagine , hath ascribed to the sacraments , farre more , ( following therein the steps of the church of rome ) then either the scripture , the articles of our church , or the exposition of our reuerend bishops , and others do . for the fathers ( say you ) make the sacraments only seales of assurance , by which the spirit worketh inuisibly , to strengthen our faith : and therfore , they call them visible words , seales of righteousnesse , and tokens of grace . that they doe , and say thus , there is no man , doubteth ; but we are not yet perswaded that this is all , or the furthest ( as you alledge ) that they saie ; because vndoubtedly we are assured , that they haue learned both to know and to speake otherwise . for the sacraments chiefest force , and vertue , consisteth in this , that they are heauenly ceremonies which god hath sanctified and ordained , to be administred in his church : first , as markes to know when god doth impart his vitall or sauing grace of christ , vnto all that are capable therof : and secondly , as meanes conditionall , which god requireth in them , vnto whom he imparteth grace . for doubtles , it must needes be a great vnthankfulnesse , and easily breed contempt , to ascribe only that power to them to be but as seales ; and that they teach but the minde , by other sense , as the worde doth by hearing : which if it were all , what reason hath the church , to bestow any sacrament vpon infants , who as yet for their yeares , are nor capable of any instruction ; there is therefore of sacraments , vndoubtedly some more excellent and heauenly vse . sacraments , by reason of their mixt nature , are more diuersly interpreted , and disputed of , then any other part of religion besides ; for that in so great store of properties belonging to the selfe same thing , as euery mans wit , hath taken hold of some especiall consideration , aboue the rest ; so they haue accordingly giuen their censure of the vse and necessity of them . for if respect bee had to the dutie , which euery communicant doth vndertake , we may cal them truly bōds of our obedience to god ; strict obligations to the mutuall exercise of christian charity ; prouocations to godlines ; preseruatiōs frō sin ; memorials of the principal benefits of christ. if we respect the time , of their institutiō , they are annexed for euer , vnto the new testamēt ; as other rites were before with the old . if we regard the weakenesse , that is in vs , they are warrants for the more security of our beleefe . if we compare the receiuers , with those that receiue them not , they are works of distinctiō , to separate gods owne from strangers ; and in those that receiue them as they ought , they are tokens of gods gratious presence , whereby men are taught , to know what they cannot see . for christ and his holy spirit , with all their blessed effects , though entring into the soule of man , we are not able to apprehend or expresse how , doe notwithstanding giue notice , of the times when they vse to make their accesse , because it pleaseth almighty god , to communicate by sensible meanes , those blessings which are incomprehensible . seeing therfore , that grace is a consequent of sacraments ; a thing which accompanieth them as their end ; a benefit , which he y t hath , receiueth from god himselfe , the author of sacraments , & not from any other natural or supernatural quality in them ; it may be heereby both vnderstood , that sacraments are necessary ; and that the manner of their necessity to life supernaturall , is not in al respects , as foode , vnto naturall life . because they containe in themselues , no vitall force or efficacie , but they are duties of seruice and worship ; which vnlesse we performe , as the author of grace requireth , they are vnprofitable : for all receiue not the grace of god , which receiue the sacraments of his grace . neither is it ordinarily his will , to bestowe the grace of sacraments vpon any , but by the sacraments . which grace also they that receiue by sacraments , or with sacraments , receiue it from him , and not from them . that sauing grace , which christ originally , is , or hath , for the general good of his whole church , by sacramēts he seuerally deriueth into euery mēber therof . they serue , as instruments , the vse is in our hands , the effect is his . and this made the schoolemen , and the rest , ( which you are affraide to graunt ) to say that the sacraments were not only signes , but causes of our iustification . now agent causes , we know , are of two sorts ; principall , which worketh by the vertue and power of his forme ; as fire , maketh hotte : and thus nothing can cause grace , but god himselfe ; grace being a participation of the diuine nature . instrumentall , which worketh not as the other , by vertue of his owne proper forme , but only by that motion , which it hath from the principall , and first agent . thus doe sacraments worke ; and therfore saith saint austin , the sacraments are finished , performed , and passe away ; but the vertue of god , that worketh by them , or with them , remaineth . thus for the vse of them , the church hath gods expresse commandement ; for the effect , his conditionall promise ; so that without our obedience to the one , there is of the other no apparant assurance ; as contrariwise , where the signes , and sacraments of his grace are not , either through contempt vnreceiued , or receiued with contempt , we are not to doubte , but that they really giue what they promise ; and are what they signifie . for we take not the sacraments ( as it seemeth you doe ) for bare resemblances , or memorials of things absent , neither for naked signes , and testimonies assuring vs of grace receiued before , but ( as they are indeede and in truth ) for meanes effectual , whereby god , when we take the sacraments , deliuereth into our hands that grace , auaileable vnto eternall life ; which grace , the sacraments represent or signifie : and yet we acknowledge as hugo saith , that the sacraments , being , as he calleth them , vessels of grace , they cure not of them selues , no more then glasses , doe the sick ; but the potions contained in them . neither doth any man say , ( no not the church of rome ) ( although they be so accused by some of vs ) that the sacraments , worke of themselues , by a vertue resigned vnto them , without god , meerely of the worked on actiuely ; but that god worketh by them , as by instruments powerfull , and thought in his wisdome fittest . for doubtles , the church hath authority to vse the word , and the sacraments , as powerfull meanes , of regeneration , both hauing by a diuine ordination , a force , and vertue to beget faith : and therefore iustly amongst all the treasures , that god hath left vnto his church , we honor and admire most , the holy sacraments ; not respecting so much the seruice , which we do vnto god in receiuing them , as the dignity of that sacred and secret guift , which we thereby receiue from god. and therfore , when our church saith , that sacraments are not only markes of christian profession , but rather certaine testimonies , and effectuall signes of grace , and of the goodwill of god towards vs , by which god worketh inuisiblie in vs , we thereby conceiue , how grace is indeed the very end , for which these heauenly mysteries were instituted ; and besides , sundry other properties obserued in them , the matter whereof they consist is such , as signifieth , figureth , and representeth their end : for surely sacraments are the powerfull instruments of god , vnto eternall life . for as the naturall life consisteth in the vnion of the body with the soule ; so the spiritual life in the vnion of the soule with god : and for asmuch as there is no vnion of god with man , without that meane betweene both , which is both ; nor this participated to vs , without the sacraments ; the vertue must needs bee great , that god by these imparteth vnto his church . for they are signes , not only signifying , but ( as m. zanchie saith ) exhibiting also inuisible grace . for god directly affirmeth , that he giueth that with the signe , which by the signe he representeth . in the sacraments , wee acknowledge three things : the word , the element , the thing signified by the word ; and represented by the element ; and all these vnited , yet not by any reall , or physicall vnion , that one cannot bee receiued without the other ; but in these the vnion is sacramentall , and the order mysticall , betwixt the signes , and the things signified , by an institution from god : whereby it commeth to passe , that heauenly and spirituall things by signes bodily , and earthly are signified , offered , and by the vertue of the holy ghost , really exhibited , and performed vnto the elect . thus if either the signes , or the thing signified be wanting , it ceaseth truly to bee a sacrament . neither is grace , necessarily tied euer , to the externall sacrament : for we giue the one , and god giueth the other ; and when both are giuen , then is the sacrament faithfully receiued . thus god iustifieth by the washing of the new birth , and the renewing of the holy ghost : for this being the effect of his promise ; the sacraments apply it vnto vs , by thus giuing it , faith by thus receiuing , both being as instruments . for god doth iustifie , by the sacraments , man by faith ; but god one , and the same , maketh righteous , by both ; he being the author from whence they both come . therefore it is a branch of beleefe ( howsoeuer you scoffe at it as omitted in our creed ) that sacraments are in their place , as maister hooker saith , no lesse required , then beleefe it self . for when our sauior promiseth eternall life , it is with this condition , as health to naaman the syrian , wash and be cleane . but you are afraid to say that the sacraments beget faith , although you confesse that they do increase it : surely this is a feare like to the disposition of some melancholie humour , where fancie growing strong , forceth an auoidance of things , oftentimes that are without daunger : for to make sacraments , and the word , to be ioyned with faith , both in his generation , and in our iustification , is neither to rob faith of his proper office , nor to ascribe more vnto the sacraments , then of right belongeth . for we are not in anie doubt to affirme , that the sacraments by the worke done actiuely , doe not affoord grace , though rightly vnderstood , passiuely they may , by the worke done : for in that iustification , and meanes of righteousnesse , whereof man is made partaker by the sacraments , manie things concurre . first in gods behalfe , a will that we should vse those sensible elements ; in christs behalfe , his passion , from which the sacraments haue their vertue ; in the ministers behalfe , his power , his will ; in the receiuers behalfe , will , faith , repentance ; in respect of the sacrament it selfe , the externall action , which ariseth out of the fit application of the matter , & the form of the sacraments . now that which in all this , actiuely , and instrumentally bringeth grace , is the externall action , which is commonly called the sacrament : this hauing his vertue from his institution , and not from anie merit , either in the minister , or in him that receiueth . for the wil of god , which vseth the sacramēts as that meanes of grace , which it hath ordained , concurreth actiuely , but as a principall cause ; the passion of christ concurreth , as a cause meritorious ; the power and the will of the minister , necessarily concurre , but as causes further remoued ; hauing their vse only in effecting the sacramentall action ; in whose due circumstances , of administring , he is vnwilling to faile . will , faith , and repentance , are necessarily required in the receiuer , that is of yeares ; not as actiue causes , but as fit dispositions , for the subiect ; for faith , and repentance , make not the sacramentall grace , nor giue power to the sacrament , but onely remoue those lets , which are hindrances , that the sacraments exercise not that vertue , that is annexed to them . so that in infants , in whom no such disposition is required , the sacrament of baptisme is auaileable without these . and therefore to satisfie your demaunds in this article , wee conclude that a man dying without faith , and receiuing the sacramentall signes ( for sacraments he cannot receiue ) shall not be saued ; and not receiuing them ( if his want bee not either negligence , or contempt ) may be saued . yet the latter to vs is fearefull , and ordinarily , impossible ; whereas the former is an euidence of our hope , and giueth most iust reason charitably to iudge . so that we say with saint austin , he that eateth , and drinketh vnworthily , eateth and drinketh his owne damnation , but he that contemneth to eate hath not life ; and therefore shall not come to eternall life . and yet those things that hurt the vnworthy receiuer , do much profit him who receiueth them , as he ought . article xv. of christs institution . it is not an apprehension equally incident vnto the iudgments of all wise men , rightly to conceiue the true dependance of things ; for those who allow , and confesse actions , to haue much vertue , oftentimes do mistake , from whence that vertue commeth : this , as it happeneth in causes of more vsuall , and knowne nature ; so it is sometimes , euen in those things , where the authour is but one , and he incomparably the best : because he vouchsafeth to admit instruments , of a lower conditiō , to be agents in the performance of things of so great an vse . this maketh men , in the sacraments , those holy institutions of god , left vnto the church , often to faile , in a due estimation of them : and when they do graunt , their vse to be singular ; yet euen then , to doubt whereupon this dependeth ; because the same things performed by diuers , are not the same ; and those which admit no difference , in respect of substance , yet are subiect , in regard of some circumstance , to an alteration , either more , or lesse . from hence hath proceeded , the difference in this article , which ouer violently you vrge to be betwixt maister hooker and our church ; of whom ( as vsually you do ) you carie too iealous a suspition , of too great agreement with the church of rome . that sacraments haue a vertue , euen more then to be onely signes , is already proued : but whether this vertue be lesse , where the minister hath moe faults , or none at all , where his intention is not to administer a sacrament , that commeth now to be discussed in this place . to make the sacraments , depend for their grace , vpon the integritie of men , were to denie the benefit to a great number without cause , and to punish men , for a fault that were none of theirs . the first of these is denied by fewe ; nay , some are so farre from opinion , that sin in the minister , is anie let to the sacrament , that they are not affraid to affirme , that sacraments are effectuall , though administred by satan himselfe . doubtlesse few ( sauing onelie some anabaptists ) denie the efficacie of the sacraments , for the defects of life , in the lawfull dispensers of them . they are inestimable fauours , vnto gods church , not to be measured by the hand , from whom immediately wee receiue them , but by that almightie power , the fountaine of all goodnesse , from whence they do first come . for as , amongst men it were want either of iudgement , or ciuilitie , or both , lesse to esteeme of the benefit , for the meannesse of the messenger , where we are vndoubtedly assured , that it is the princes seale : so , in the sacraments , we must esteem them , as the seales , & fauours of god himselfe , whatsoeuer the imperfections are , in those ministers , from whom we haue them . for the defects of men , being in the church , and lawfully called to those functions , no way touch the efficacie of the sacraments , whose vertue dependeth vpon a higher power : and therefore we denie all reiteration of baptisme , whatsoeuer the defects for manners are in those , that do first giue it . for we are equally baptized , into the name of the father , the sonne , and the holy-ghost , what vnworthines , or inequality soeuer , remaine in the persons , that do baptize . for the holinesse of the sacraments , is no way polluted , by the vncleannesse of the handes that giue them . for those sacraments , which vnreuerently being handled , as saint austin saith , doe hurt the giuer , yet euen by their hands profit those that receiue them worthily . it was both in asia , and africk , an error longe since , that the sacraments were not firme , which were administred by heretickes , or schismatickes , separated from the vnity of the church . the first author of this , was agrippinus bishop of carthage , whom saint cyprian succeeded , as saint austine writeth ; and was a little infected with the same errour . after these were the donatists : but we wil not labour for confirmation of this point , because , you obiect nothing against master hooker in it . and it is no controuersie at all , betwixt vs and the church of rome : and therfore we say , with the auncient fathers , stephanus , siricius , innocentius the first , leo , anastasius the second , in his epistle to anastasius the emperour ; with the councels ; first the generall councell of nice , often alledged by saint austin to this ende ; the first councell of carthage , the last assembly at trent ; with the testimonies of fathers , and doctors , and according to the articles of our church by you alledged ; that by the malice of wicked men , which are ouer the administration of the sacramēts , the effect of the thing ordeined by christ , is not taken away , or the grace of gods guift diminished , as touching them which receiue by faith , and orderly , the things offered vnto them ; which for the institutiō of christ , and his promise , are effectuall , although they be administred by euill men . but to inferre heereupon , that the same actions , howsoeuer don scoffingly , and in iest , contrary , or besides the holy institution of the church , are truly sacraments ; it is a conclusion too violent , and not warranted by any truth . for howsoeuer , the grace of sacraments dependeth not vpon the minister , who maie faile of these vertues , that are fitte to bee required in him : yet it is necessarie , that there should bee an intention to administer a true sacrament , least we put no difference betwixt that , which either derision , imitatiō , chance , or the church doth . for if the conuersion of lucius first christian king of this land , were to be acted vpon a stage , and that two persons , were to represent , ●ugatius and damianus , sent by eleutherius the pope , to baptize lucius , could any man in reason thinke , how orderly soeuer performed ; that this were true baptisme ? were not this , to make the bare action , all , and the intention a circumstance not belonging to it ? but we must know , as m. hooker saith , that sacramēts are actions , mysticall and religious ( for no man can truly define them otherwise ) which nature , they haue not , vnlesse they proceede from a serious meaning : yet what euery mans priuate minde is as we cannot know , so neither are we bound to examine ; for in these cases , the knowne intent of the church , doth generally suffice ; and where the contrary is not manifest , ( as circumstances will serue easily to discouer ) we must presume , that he which outwardly doth the worke , hath inwardly the purpose of the church of god. now , this beeing a discreet rule , wisely to put a difference betwixt sacraments ( holie actions ) and the like irreligious●●e , and prophanely performed , is that , whereat your zealous wisdome , doth take offence ; and which you pursue with that bitternesse of speech , ( calling it meere popery , a humane inuention , and inducemēt to fides implicita ) as though the dangers were neither few , nor small , which came vnto y e church by this opinion . let me intreat your patience a little , & vouchsafe to be but aduised by him , who in all humilitie wil be readie to follow y e sound directions of the meanest in gods church ; and i doubt not , to make it apparant , that maister hooker hath deliuered that truth , the contrary wherof , is no way fit , to be admitted , or allowed by vs. some are of opinion , that no intention at all is required in the ministers of the sacraments , but that if the thing , and the words be present , though either in ●est , or otherwise performed , yet notwithstanding it is a sacrament . the first author of this , as bellarmine saith , was luther , whose words i must needes say , are violētly wrested , to make him speake that which he neuer ment . it is like that heout of whom by misunderstanding you haue collected this opinion , was maister caluin ; who rightly deriuing the vertue of sacraments from the minister to god himselfe the author of the first institution , saith thus ; i refer , so much to the holy institution of christ , that if an epicure , inwardely deriding the whole action , should administer the supper , by the commandement of christ ( marke the words ) and according to the rule by him giuen , ( which no man could that wanted the intention of the church ) i would account them , saith he , the true pledges of the body , and the blood of christ : where we are willing to confesse with him and with truth it selfe , that sacraments for their vertue , depēd not vpon the intention of the minister , though without the intention of the church they are not sacraments . where , by intention we meane not a particular purpose , of all that the sacraments require , ( a thing peraduenture aboue the capacity of many lawfull ministers ) but a generall intention , of performing that sacred action , according to the meaning of the church : where , by church we mean not any one particular , but the true church ; or as m. caluin saith , christs rule , or that intention which christians in that action haue ; and yet if one in this should follow the intention of a particular church that did erre , it were not a reason sufficient to make the sacrament to be none at all : for euen his intention , in following that particular church though erring , were an intentiō of following the true church that doth not erre . neither is it required , as the scholemen say , that this intention necessarily be actual , nor it sufficeth not , to be habituall , ( which may be in men either drunke or asleepe ) but vertuall , that is , in the power of that intention , which howsoeuer now distracted , before was actuall : neither doe we meane , that the minister should necessarily haue the same intent of the end , which the church hath , but of the action ; the end being perhaps , without the compasse of his knowledg , but the action cannot ; vnlesse we suppose him to be a minister weaker then any church hath . for it is one thing , to intend what the church intendeth , and another thing , to intend what the church doth : for those that intend by baptisme , an vtter acquittance from originall sinne , and those that doe not , there is a diuersitie in the end , but the action is all one ; and therefore not reiterated , though the end be diuers . now to do the externall action , and yet in iest , is no more to doe , what the church intendeth to doe , then their speech , and action ( haile king of the iewes ) was any honor , or true reuerence to our sauiour christ. the necessity of this intention , ( not for grace , but to make it a sacramentall action ) will more euidently appeare , if wee consider what kinde of instrument the minister is . man may be the instrument of another agent many waies : first in respect only of his bodily members , his hand , his backe or such like ; without any , vse of the will. secondly , in respect of his outward parts , with the vse of sense ; as to reade , to watch , to tell what he seeth ; and to this also , the will is no further required , but to the outward action . thirdly , in respect of the bodily members , together with sense and reason , as in iudges appointed by princes to determine causes , wherein wisdome and the will are to be instruments . now the ministers of the sacrament , must be of this third kinde : and therefore saith hugo , if a father should take his sonne to a bathe , and should say , sonne , i wash thee in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , and so dip him in the water , it were ridiculous to thinke that hee were thus baptized . where , although such prophaners are without excuse , for vnreuerend imitation of holy things , yet these actions , without the intention of the church , can no wayes bee tearmed sacraments . for if those , who hold a sermon read , to be no sermon , and yet a prayer read , to be a prayer , require that the spirit of grace , and prayer , bee not wanting in the partie reading , and the hearers ; how can we thinke those actions to be sacramentall , where in the minister , there is not so much as an intention , that they should be sacraments ? and therefore , saith hugo , in the place before alleaged , alexander the bishop held the baptisme that athanafius ministred to other boyes in play , to be true baptisme , because he did it with an intention of true baptisme . in those that are but instruments ( as the minister is no more ) the vertues of faith , hope , and charitie , are not requisite ; and yet because they are reasonable instruments , their actions must proceede from election , and intention . therefore we conclude , that this intention of the church , is no ground of vncertaintie , seeing she tendeth but one thing ; that is , to performe them as sacraments ; nor giueth any power to the vertue of the sacrament ; and that the church cannot make a sacrament ; but to distinguish betwixt actions religious , and the same not religious , there is required the intention of the church . article xvi . of the necessitie of baptisme . where many things are doubted of without reason , it is neither easie , nor vsually expedient to answer all . wisdome esteemeth it much fitter , to passe by without yeelding satisfaction to some apparant truths called in question , rather then by answering , to let the simple vnderstand , that men haue doubted of those points . for the first calling in question of vnfallible truths , gaue strength to euill minds , to find out all shewes of reason , for maintaining of those things , which their owne weaknesse at first made them simply to mistake . so that , whosoeuer maketh euerie doubt to bee a contention , or laboureth to confute errours of long continuance , in the first , kindleth but that sparke , which without some breath would easily die ; and in the latter , must arme himselfe to encounter an obstinate resolution . the consideration of this , made me not willing , either to dispute the newe borne doubts of your owne in this article , which being discussed in time , might grow to be old errours , or to bestowe labour , for the assisting of that truth , which out of great iudgement , and learning , hath often beene defended by other mens paines . but seeing it is an vsuall false conclusion , as to argue a lawfulnesse from what we doe , so a want of abilitie from what we doe not ; i thought it fitter , euen following their steps that haue gone before me , rather to resolue others what you haue doubted of in this point , thē that any should conclude out of silence , an impossibilitie that you could be answered . for the willingnes that some men haue , to do more then they are able , maketh others suspected , to want abilitie , in whom there appeareth not the same willingnesse . if al men rightly considered in those actions that concerne mans saluation , how farre we are tied not onely in obedience , but for vse , to those things that are meanes to effect the same ; few would haue beene so carelesly resolute , to contemne good works , through an opinion of an eternall election , or so negligently haue despised the onely doore of entrance into the church ( baptisme ) through an opinion that god doth saue , euen where this is wanting . we do all confesse , that baptisme is a sacrament of regeneration , or new birth , by water in the word of life ; that it is a signe , nay a meanes of initiation , whereby we are coopted into the societie of the church : thus , by this being ingraffed into christ , we may be taken for the sonnes of god ; and so receiue newe names to bee called christians : and therefore learned men , haue thought it to bee the doore of our actuall entrance into gods house ; the first apparant being of life , as saint basil calleth it ; the first step of our sanctification , as master hooker saith . for as we are not naturally men , without birth , so neither are we christian men , in the eye of the church , without new birth ; we say in the eye of the church : for we take not vpon vs , to see as god doth , who knoweth without all meanes , both to make , and without visible tokens , is able to discerne who belong vnto him : and yet in our eye , baptisme is that , which both declareth , and maketh vs to be christians . therefore it is a strange opinion of them , who say , that he which is not a christian before baptisme , cannot be made a christian by baptisme ; which is onely the seale of the grace of god , before receiued . these , as it seemeth you doe , eleuate too much the ordinarie and immediate meanes of life , relying wholy vpon the bare conceit , of that eternall election , which notwithstanding includeth a subordination of meanes ; without which , we are not actually brought to inioy what god secretly did intend : and therefore to build vpon gods election , if we keepe not our selues to the wayes which he hath appointed for men to walke in , is but a selfe deceiuing vanitie : for all men notwithstanding their preordination vnto life ( which none can know but god only ) are in the apostles opinion , till they haue imbraced the truth , but the children of wrath as well as others . and howsoeuer the children of the faithfull , are borne holy , as you alleage out of y t reuerend bishop ; & the elect , are adopted to be the sons of god in their predestination , 〈◊〉 afterwards whē they beleeue , then they are said more properly to be the sons of god indeed : for although it be true as saint paul saith , that your sonnes are holy , namely , when they are borne , by reason of the promise , yet he saith , that we are sanctified by faith , meaning actually and indeed . for as kings ( in those kingdomes that are by election ) are first chosen , then designed , then crowned , which last action is that which maketh them ful , and compleate kings ; so whatsoeuer we were , in that secret election to vs vnknowne , yet then , when we are baptized , and not before , we are properly , publikely , solemnly ioyned vnto god , and admitted into his church : yet we exclude not ( neither doth any that i know ) these benefits thus bestowed , ordinarily , in , and with baptisme , but that extraordinarily ( sometimes before , as in paul and cornelius ; sometimes after , as in many baptized by heretikes ; sometimes without , as in those who preuent their baptisme by martyrdome , and some others ) these benefits may be bestowed . for it were a fearefull doctrine , iniurious to many thousands soules , and blasphemous against the bottomles mercie of a most louing father , to exclude all those from eternall life , whom not negligence , or contēpt , but some other occasion hath hindred to be baptized . and therefore it is strange , that you would make m. hooker to speake for so absolute a necessitie ( which indeed he doth not ) but maketh it limited ; or that yourself would dislike a necessity , wheras you confesse , this to be the conditiō of baptisme , if it cannot be had as it ought . the matter then principally called in question in this article , is what kind of necessity there is of baptisme ; a thing already fully hādled by m. hooker ; & therfore we wil be more sparing in this point . all things , which either are known causes , or fit meanes , wherby any great good is vsually procured , or men deliuered frō greeuous euil , the same we must needs confesse necessarie : now we know there is a necessity absolute , & there is a necessity conditionall & euen that conditional for the end in ordinary estimation , is absolutely necessarie . thus to a man in the sea , to escape drowning , we account a ship a necessary meanes , euen of absolute necessity in respect of our iudgement , howsoeuer some few , haue escaped by other meanes ; so our sauiour saith of baptisme , vnlesse a man be born●●gaine of water , and of the holy-ghost , he cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen . which place we vnderstand , howsoeuer some deny it , of baptisme , by materiall water , according to the generall consent of the auncient fathers : for it is a rule in expounding the scriptures , that where a literall construction will stand , ( as in this place ) the farthest from the letter is commonly the worst . and therefore water , & the spirit both concurring in that sacrament , why should there not be , though not an equall , yet a necessity of both . for as the spirit is necessary to regeneratiō , so regeneratiō is necessary to eternal life , which so far dependeth vpō the outward sacramēt , that god wil haue it imbraced not only as a signe or token what we receiue , as you affirme , but also as an instrument , or meane , whereby we receiue it ; and this without any inthralling , as you seeme to feare , of gods mercifull grace : neither , as hugo saith , doe these giue , ( speaking of the sacraments ) that which is giuen by these , and yet ordinarily as necessary to receiue these , as those graces are necessary which we receiue by these . for , though baptisme bee not a cause of grace , yet the grace which is giuen by baptisme , doth so far depend vpon the very outward sacrament , as god will haue it imbraced as a necessary meanes , whereby we receiue the same : and howsoeuer we dare not iudge those , that in some cases do want it , yet we may boldly gather , that he , whose mercy now vouchsafeth to bestowe the meanes , hath also long since intended vs that wherunto they leade . for to imagine , nothing necessary but saith , is to come neere the error of the old valentinian hereticks , who ascribed all to knowledge only . so saith tertullian . some account the sacraments , as vnprofitable without faith , so needeles where faith is ; but no faith can bee profitable , saith saint bernard to him , who when he may , yet refuseth to receiue the sacraments . therefore if christ himselfe , which giueth saluation , require baptisme , it is not for vs to dispute or examine , whether those that are vnbaptized , may be saued , but seriously to doe that , which is required , and religiously to feare the danger , which may grow by the want thereof . for doubtles , the sacrament of baptisme , in respect of god the author of the institution , may admit dispensation ; but in respect of vs , who are tyed to obeie , there is an absolute necessity . for it is in the power , of god without these to saue ; but it is not in the power of man , without these to come to saluation . and yet the church holdeth constantly , as well touching other beleeuers , as martyrs , that baptisme taken away by necessity , taketh not away the necessity of baptisme ; but is supplied by the desire therof . for what is there in vs , saith saint ambrose , more then to will and to seeke for our owne good . thy seruant valentinian ( who died before he was baptized ) oh lord , did both . for as the visible signe , may be without true holinesse , so the inuisible sanctification , saith saint austin , may sometimes be without the visible signe : and yet these are no iust reasons , either to make vs presume , or to take away the necessity of this holy sacramēt : for euen those haue it in their wishe , as the schoolemen say , who indeed do want y e same . and howsoeuer , as they of rhemes confesse , such may be the grace of god towards men , that they may haue remissiō , iustification & sanctificatiō before the external sacrament of baptisme ; as in peters preaching they all receiued the holy-ghost before the sacrament ; yet this is no ordinary thing now in infants ; and whosoeuer therefore shal contemne them , cannot be saued . yet god , who hath not bound his grace , in respect of his owne freedome , to any sacrament , may , and doth accept them as baptized , which either are martyred before they could be baptized , or else depart this life , with wi●he and desire to haue that sacrament , which by some remediles necessity , they could not obtaine . for the iust , by what death soeuer he be preuented , his soule shall be in rest . and whereas you demaund , whether our sacraments be not the same in nature , vertue , and substance , that the sacraments of the iewes were vnder the law ; and therefore baptisme to be of no more necessity , then circumcision ; we answeare with saint austin : the sacraments deliuered by christ , are for number fewer ; ( taking , as maister zanchy noteth , sacraments largly for al those ceremonies as he did ) for performance easier ; for vnderstanding more excellent ; for obseruation more chast . and therefore , though all sacraments for their substance be one , ( that is christ ) and that more particularly baptisme succeedeth circumcision : yet their difference is great , both in their rites which were diuers , & in the maner of the obiect ; the one christ to come , the other already come ; the one a corporall benefit , to be of that church which should haue her certaine seate vntill the comming of the messias , in the land of canaan ; the other expecting a spiritual kingdom . the one bounde , to an obseruation of the whole lawe , ceremoniall , iudiciall , morall ; the other only to the moral law ; and for want of true fulfilling of it , to faith and repentance . the one to israel only , the other to the whole church . the one to continue , till the comming of the messias in humility , the other vntill his comming in glory . the one belonged vnto the males only , the other to all . so that as the differences were many , and not small ; euen so we doubte not to affirme , that the benefits are far more ; and the necessity is much greater . and therfore , as maister hooker saith , we haue for baptisme no day set , as the iewes had for circumcision ; neither haue we by the law of god , but only by the churches discretion , a place therunto appointed . baptisme therefore euen in the meaning of the law of christ , belōgeth vnto infants capable therof , frō the very instant of their birth ; which if they haue not howsoeuer , rather then lose it by being put off , because some circumstances of solemnity do not concur , the church , as much as in her lieth ( marke the words , for she cannot disappoint gods eternall election ) but as far as is in her power , by denying the meanes , casteth away their soules : and therefore there is a more absolute necessity , in the church to giue baptisme , which she can neuer willingly refuse to doe without cruelty , then there is in the faithfull to receiue it , who , how willing soeuer , yet alwaies cannot . article xvii . of transubstantiation . seeing the church , hath nothing left vnto it , either more powerful , or more reuerently to be esteemed , then the holy sacraments ; it hath bin the policie of sathan , from the beginning , to darken the cleere light of these , with infinit clouds of vnnecessary questions , wholy impertinent , and vnprofitable to that cause . so that out of due consideration of this great euill , wisemen haue thought it more fit , by application , to make vse of that , which concernes them in this kinde , rather then by curious inquisition to desire , to finde out , what concerneth them not . the whole benefit , which the church hath , is from christ ; and this by no other meanes but by participation : for christ to be what he is , is not to be what he is to the church , but only by a participation of all that he is , ( as a mediator ) betwixt him and vs. this we cal the mutuall , inward hold , which christ hath of vs and we of him , in such sort that each possesseth other , by way of speciall interest , properly , and inherent copulation : for what soeuer we are eternally , according to his election , wee are actually no longer in god , then onely from the time of our actuall adoption into the body of his true church , into the fellowship of his children : wee are therefore adopted sonnes of god to eternall life by participation of the onely sonne of god , whose life is the welspring & cause of ours . this participation , besides the presence of christs person , and besides the mysticall copulation thereof , with the parts and members of his whole church , importeth a true actuall influence of grace , whereby the life which we liue , according to godlinesse , is his , and from him wee receiue those perfections , wherein our eternal happinesse consisteth . this is partly by imputation of his merit , partly by habituall , and reall infusion of his grace ; the first whereof , as the ground of all the rest , being the spirit , maketh a blessed vnion of all those , howsoeuer distinguisht , by place , or time , who mystically belong vnto that body ; and this being the common vnion of all saints , we fitly terme , the communion of saints . that of imputation , maketh vs al sonnes , in which number , how farre so euer one may seeme to excel another ; yet touching this , that all are sons , they are all equals ; some happily better sonnes then the rest are , but none anie more a sonne , then another . neither doth this participation , include anie grosse surmise , of any mixture of the substance of his flesh with ours , but is actually deriued vnto his church , by the vse of his holy sacraments : wherein baptisme doth chalenge vnto it self , the inchoation of those graces , the consummation whereof dependeth vpon other mysteries . for the grace which we haue , by the holy eucharist , doth not begin , but continue life ; and therefore no man receiueth it before baptisme , because nothing is capable of nourishment , that doth not liue . now life being propounded to all men as their end ; those which by baptisme haue laid the foundation , and attained the first beginning of a new life , haue in the eucharist , foode prescribed and giuen , for the continuance of life in them . in both the same thing being affoorded ( which is a participation of christ ) in our infancie we are incorporated into christ , and by baptisme receiue the grace of his spirit , without any sense or feeling of the gift , which god bestoweth . in the eucharist we so receiue the gift of god , that we know by grace , what the grace is , which god giueth vs. the degrees of our increase in holinesse , and vertue , we see , and can iudge of them ; we vnderstand that the strength of our life begun in christ is christ ; that his flesh is meat , and his bloud drinke , not by surmised imagination , but truly ; euen so truly , that through faith we perceiue in the body and bloud sacramentally presented , the verie taste of eternall life : the grace of the sacrament is heere as the food which wee eate and drinke . and howsoeuer it was to bee feared , that by the meanes of some , men should be brought to account of this sacrament , but only as of a shadow , destitute , emptie , and voide of christ ; yet now at length , for any thing that i can see , all sides are growne , as it is fit , to a generall agreement concerning that which alone is materiall , namely , the reall participation of christ , and of life , in his body and bloud , by meanes of this sacrament . the maner how , which ought to be the least part of our consideration , is in this question , the greatest difference : so that , considering the small successe , that bitter contentions haue had in this cause , it were to be wished , that men would giue themselues , more to meditate with silence , what they haue by the sacrament ; and in humilitie , lesse to dispute , of the maner how : this being the true difference betwixt christes disciples , and others ; that the one , because they enioyed not , disputed : the other disputed not , because they inioyed . for doubtlesse this heauenly food , is giuen for the satisfying of our emptie soules , and not for the exercising of our curious , and subtill wits . it is sufficient that the sacraments reallie exhibit , what they promise ; though they are not really , or doe not really containe in themselues , that grace , which with them , or by them , it pleaseth god to bestow . now the first by all sides being granted , why doe we vainly ( saith maister hooker ) trouble our selues with so fierce contentions , whether by consubstantiation , or els by transubstantiation , the sacrament it selfe , be first possest with christ or no ? a thing which no way can either further , or hinder vs , howsoeuer it stand , because our participation of christ in the sacrament , dependeth vpon the cooperation of his omnipotent power , which maketh it his body and bloud to vs , whether with change , or without alteration of the element , such as they imagine ; we need not greatly to care or enquire for : that being admitted , wherein all agree , ( which is a reall presence ) why should not the rest in question , rather be left as superfluous , then vrged as necessarie . this is that , which being vttered by maister hooker , out of great wisdome , argueth as you surmise , that hee maketh light of the doctrin of transubstantiation ; whereas the reuerend fathers of our church , doe so much detest it ; and that so many blessed martyrs , haue suffered death for denial thereof . whether the doctrine of transubstantiation be true , or false ( howsoeuer it is plaine what maister hooker thought ) yet , that is no part of the contention at this time . the matter in question betwixt you and him , is only this : whether it be not curiosity , to contend for the manner , how , seeing all sides are agreed , that the thing is . for as in those who were to bee cured , by our sauiour christ , we ought not curiously to enquire howe the hem of his garment had such vertue , but faithfully to beleeue that it was able to affoord health ; so neither in this need the church to be inquisitiue after what maner , christ presenteth himselfe , but truely to beleeue that he is there present . which because some irreligious men , at the first doubted ; men haue beene driuen to find out these reasonable satisfactions , or rather satisfactions to humane reason , from his omnipotencie , transubstantiation , consubstantiation , or such like ; whereas indeed we know , that in many mysteries of our faith , it is sufficient to beleeue the thing , though wee cannot comprehend the meanes , how . of this kind , saith bellarmine , is the trinitie of persons in the vnitie of essence ▪ christ to bee both god , and man ; the same bodies in number to rise againe ; christ really to be in the eucharist ; and such like , which by reason of our shallow vnderstanding , mans weaknesse is not able to comprehend . for if ignorance bee in these things that are below , then how much more in those things that are aboue . and if mephibosheth , whē he came vnto dauids table , accounted himselfe in all humility , so farre vnworthie ; what ought our contemplation to be , but of his mercie , and our want of desert , when we shall come to bee partakers of so inestimable fauours ? for if the bethsamites were punished for looking into the arke , what can we expect to be the recompence of our vndiscreete follie ? is it not then an aduise needfull , which maister hooker giueth , and you mislike , rather to seek how to receiue it worthily , then to desire to know how it is present with vs ? for the one importeth a duty that is necessary , and the other bewrayeth a desire , that is superfluous ; in the one , we performe what god hath commanded , and in the other , affect , what he hath forbiddē . neither is this to make transubstantiation ( for deniall whereof so many , as you say , haue died ) any light matter , but rather to shew , the great depth of the mystery , and the small profit , that is reaped by the searching of it : for seeing it is on all sides plainely confest ; first , that this sacrament is a true , and reall participation of christ , who thereby imparteth himselfe , euen his whole entire person , as a mysticall head , vnto euery soule that receiueth him , and that euery such receiuer , doth thereby incorporate , or vnite himselfe vnto christ as a mysticall member of him , yea of them also , whom he acknowledgeth to be his owne . secondly , that to whom the person of christ is thus communicated , to them he giueth by the same sacrament his holy spirit , to sanctify them , as it sanctifieth him which is their head . thirdly , that what merit , force or vertue soeuer , there is in this sacrificed body and bloud , we freely , fully , and wholy haue it by this sacrament . fourthly , that the effect thereof in vs , is a reall transmutation of our soules and bodies , from sinne , to righteousnesse ; from death and corruption , to immortalitie and life . fiftly , that because the sacrament , being of it selfe but a corruptible and earthlie creature , must needes be thought an vnlikely instrument , to worke so admirable effects in man ; we are therfore to rest our selues , altogether vpon the strength of his glorious power , who is able and will bring to passe , that the bread and cup , which he giueth vs , shal be truly the thing he promiseth . now seeing there are but three differing opinions , for the manner of it ; sacramentaries , transubstantiation , and consubstantiation ; & al do pleade gods omnipotencie ; the first to that alteration which the rest coufesse he accomplisheth ; the patrons of transubstantiation , ouer and besides that , to the chang of one substance into another ; the followers of cōsubstantiation , to the kneading vp of both substances as it were in one lumpe : and that in this variety the mind which loueth truth & seeketh comfort out of holy mysteries , hath not perhaps the leasure , perhaps not the wit , nor capacity , to tread out so endlesse mazes , as the intricate disputes of this cause , haue led men into , how should a vertuously disposed minde , better resolue with it selfe then thus ? variety of iudgements , and opinions argueth obscurity in those things where about they differ ; but that which all parts receiue for certaine ; that which euery one hauing sifted , is by no one denyed or doubted of , must needes be matter of infallible truth : whereas therefore there are but three expositions made of , this is my body ; the first , this is in it selfe before participation , really , and truly the natural substance of my body , by reason of the coexistence which my omnipotent body hath with the sanctified element of breade , which is the lutherans interpretation . the second , this is in it selfe , and before participation , the very true & natural substance of my body , by force of that deity , which by the words of consecration , abolisheth the substance of bread , and substituteth in the place thereof my body : which is the construction of the church of rome . the last , this hallowed food , through concurrence of diuine power , is in verity and truth , vnto faithfull receiuers , instrumentally a cause of that mysticall participation ; whereby as i make my selfe wholy theirs , so i giue them in hand , an actuall possession of all such sauing grace , as my sacrificed body can yeeld , and all their soules do presently need ; this is to them , and in them , my bodie . of these three rehearsed interpretations , the last hath in it nothing , but what the rest do all approue , and acknowledg to be most true ; nothing but that which the words of christ , are on all sides confest to inforce : nothing but that which the church of god hath alwayes thought necessarie : nothing but that which alone is sufficient , for euerie christian man to beleeue , concerning the vse and force of this sacrament : finally , nothing but that , wherewith the writings of all antiquity are consonant , and all christian confessions agreeable : and as truth in what kinde soeuer , is by no kind of truth gainsaid ; so the mind which resteth it selfe , on this , is neuer troubled with those perplexities , which the other doe both finde , by meanes of so great contradiction , betweene their opinions , & the true principles of reason , grounded vpon experience , nature , and sense . what moueth vs to argue how life should be bread , our duty being but to take , what is offred , and most assuredly to rest perswaded of this , that if we can but eate , we are safe ? such as loue piety will as much as in them lyeth , know all things , that god commandeth , but especially the duties of seruice which they owe vnto him : as for his darke and hidden workes , they preferre ( as becommeth them in such cases ) simplicity of faith , before that knowledge , which curiously sifting what it should adore , and disputing too boldly of that which the wit of man can not search , chilleth for the most parte , all warmth of zeale , and bringeth soundnes of beleefe , many times into great hazard . let it therefore be sufficient for me , presenting my selfe at the lords table , to know what there i receiue from him , without searching , or inquiring of the manner , how , christ performeth his promise ; let disputes and questions , enemies to piety , abatements of true deuotion , and hitherto in this case but ouer patiently heard , let them take their rest : let curious and sharpe witted men beate their heads about what questions themselues will , the very letter of the word of christ giueth plaine security , that these mysteries doe , as nailes , fasten vs to his crosse , that by them we draw out ( as touching efficacy , force , and vertue ) euen the blood of his wounded side ; that this breade hath more in it , then our eies behold ; that this cup hallowed with solemne benediction , auaileth to the endlesse life , and welfare both of soule and body , i● that it serueth , as well for a medecine to heale our infirmities , and purge our sins , as for a sacrifice of thanksgiuing , which touching it sanctifieth ; it inlightneth with beleefe ; it truly conformeth vs vnto the image of iesus christ. what these elements are in themselues , it skilleth not , it is enough that to me which take them , they are the body and blood of iesus christ ; his promise in witnesse hereof sufficeth ; his word , he knoweth which way to accomplish ; why should any cogitation possesse the minde of a faithfull communicant but this ? oh my god , thou art true ! oh my soule , thou art happy ! to dehort then from violence of disputing , and curiosity of seeking in a matter needlesse to know , being ( as maister caluin saith ) incomprehensible , what fault can you finde , in maister hooker ? doth he not disswade from this in zeale , only to draw vs , to a better contemplation ? can this in reason be termed any gentle construction of popishe opinions , or priuily to rob the truth of our english creede of her due estimation ? thinke not so vncharitably of one , whose principall care was , in the midst of all his knowledge , only to follow that truth , soundly , and vncorruptly , which was auaileable and sufficient to saue himselfe . many itch with curiosity , they are not few , that doe blow contentions , to make them kindle ; some desire to know , only that they may know ; some others , that they may be knowne ; he doubtles , with humble sobriety , both in this and in all other points , to comprehend that which was most auaileable for the true direction of others , and the saluation of his own soule . and therefore to your obiections in this article , which are neither great , nor many ; i haue framed my answere , most out of his mouth who fulliest vnderstood this cause , and ought to be esteemed , the best interpretor of his owne meaning . article xviii . of speculatiue doctrine . as wise phisitians in the curing of some diseases , neglect not that habit of the body which when the disease is cured , may threaten a relapse , because euils past , leaue a disposition for the like to come , and by returning are so much the more daungerous , by how much the strength of the sick is lesse able to make resistance ; so fareth it with vs , in the labour imployed about these articles that follow : wherin if you had wel considered , the serious superscription of your letter , that it was for resolution in matters of doctrine , & those of no small moment , but such as seeme ( it is wel you said seeme ) to ouerthrow the foundation of christian religion , and of the church amongst vs , these articles that follow , might very fitly haue bin omitted by you . for though all that you obiect , be far frō that mature iudgment , which ought to bee in such as you desire to seeme ; yet these , concerning speculatiue doctrine , the naming of maister caluin , schoolemen , or maister hookers stile , how can they bee called matters of doctrine , or in any construction , be thought to weaken the foundation of the church amongst vs ? but seeing in the former we haue done somwhat to cure that distemper ( the effect of too much choler ) which being suffered to increase , might grow dangerous ; it is not amisse gently to apply some thing , euen to these , which wanting the malice of any dangerous discase , yet are infallible tokens of a distempered habit . neither neede we in this , to make anie other defence , for the right vse of those sentences , which you reprehend , sauing only to set downe to the readers eye , the sentence at large , which you haue maimed by seuering ; and challenging him , in those things , which are incomparably excellent , you haue manifestly discouered your weaknesse of vnderstanding . but as in anie curious workmanship , where the parts are not disiointed , there appeareth the admirable effects of a skilfull hand , which rudely being seuered , and rashly pulled in peeces , blemish the beautie of the former work , and make manie things seeme , in the eye of ignorance , to be idle , and of no vse ; so fareth it with those speeches , which in this article so vnseasonably are distasted by you , which if any indifferent reader , will but compare , with the places from whence you tooke them , he must needs be amazed , that things set downe with so much eloquence , and iudgment , should be called in question , by so great a weakenesse of vnderstanding . the sentences by you alleaged , of speculatiue doctrine ( as you call them ) are onely eight , which if you had set downe at large , with that coherence , that hee did , doubtlesse you could not haue deuised , to haue done maister hooker a greater honour ; but being pretermitted , by what reason i know not , you haue hazarded the suspition of intolerable ignorāce : and vndoubtedly this article alone , giueth full assurance , that this letter could not possibly be the act of many , nor of any one , that had either charitie , leasure , or learning in any great abundance . the first theorem ( so you terme them in derision ) not familiar to you common christians , is this : ten the number of natures perfection : in which place maister hooker , speaking of paying of tythes , saith , as abrahā gaue voluntarily , as iacob vowed to giue god tithes , so the law of moses did require , at the hands of al mē , the self same kind of tribute ; the tenth of their corn , wine , oyle , fruit , cattell , and whatsoeuer encrease , his heauenly prouidence should send : insomuch that painims being herein followers of their steps , paid tithes also . imagine we , that this was for no cause done , or that there was not some speciall inducement , to iudge the tenth of our worldly profits , the most cōuenient for gods portion ? are not all things by him created in such sort , that the formes which giue their distinction are number ; their operations measure ; and their matter weight ; three being the mysticall number of gods vnsearchable perfection , within himselfe ; seuen the number whereby our perfections through grace , are most ordered ; and ten the number of natures perfections ( for the beauty of nature is order , & the foundation of order is number , and of number ten the highest we can rise vnto , without iteration of numbers vnder it ) could nature better acknowledge the power of the god of nature , then by assigning vnto him , that quantity , which is the continent of all that she possesseth ? now let the reader iudge , what reason you had to mislike that he called ten , the number of natures perfections . but in this the iniury you do to maister hooker , is not all ; for thorough his sides you wound one , vpon whom , as sixtus senensis saith , all the commendations of the christian fathers , are poured out ; for he taketh this speech out of philo iudaeus , in whom there are many excellent things to this purpose , and who was in all kind of learning , incomparably the most excellent in his time ; in honour of whom the ancient romans placed his workes , as euerlasting monuments in their publike library . the second is this : angels perpetuitie , the hand that draweth out celestiall motiō : where m. hooker speaking of the reuolutiō of time , which bringeth with it , a reiteration of saints memories , saith ; as the substance of god alone is infinite , and hath no kind of limitatiō ; so likewise his cōtinuance , is frō euerlasting to euerlasting , & knoweth neither beginning nor end . which demonstrable conclusion , being presupposed , it followeth necessarily , that besides him , all things be finite : it cannot be but that there are bounds , without the compasse wherof their substance doth not extend ; if in continuance also limited , they all haue it , cannot bee denied their set and their certaine tearmes , before which they had no being at al. this is the reason why first we do most admire those things which are greatest ; & secondly , those things which are ancientest , because the one , are lesse distant from the infinite substance ; the other , from the infinite continuance of god. out of this we gather , that onely god hath true immortality or eternity , that is to say , continuance ; wherin there groweth no difference by addition of hereafter vnto now , whereas the noblest , and perfectest things besides , haue continually through continuance , the time of former continuance lengthened : so that they could not heretofore be said to haue continued so long as now ; neither now so long , as hereafter . gods owne eternitie is the hand which leadeth angels in the course of their perpetuity , the hand that draweth out celestiall motion , the line of which motion , and the threed of time , are spun together . what could haue beene more excellently spoken , to haue set downe the frame , and dependance of things , euen lineally deriued from the first motor ? the third thing is this ; church attire ( meaning surplesses ) with vs liuely resembleth , the glory of saints in heauen ; for it suteth fitly , saith m. hooker , with that lightsom affection of ioy , wherin god delighteth , when his saints praise him ; and so liuely resembleth the glory of the saints in heauē , together with the beauty wherein angels haue appeared vnto men , that , they which are to appeare , for men , in the presence of god as angels , if they were left to their owne choise , & would chuse any , could not easily deuise a garment of more decencie for such a seruice . now whosoeuer considereth that the angels are said to come out of the temple , clothed in pure & bright linnē , & that the angel at christs sepulchre , sate clothed in a long white garment , & those angels that appeared at christs ascension , in white apparel , and that white is the colour of brightnes , & brightnes an adiunct of the glorie of saints , wil neither deride nor mislike this speech , that church attire with vs , liuely resembleth the glory of saints in heauen . the fourth thing is this : dayly bruises spirituall promotions vse to take , by often falling . here you aske very sillily , what be the bruises & falles that spirituall promotions ordained by christ do or can take ? m. hooker weighing the manifold impedimēts , which hinder the vsuall consultation of prouiding able preachers in euery parish , to instruct the people ; alleageth the multitude of parishes ; the paucity of schooles ; the manifold discouragements , which are offered to mens inclinations , that way ; the penury of the ecclesiastical estate ; the irrecouerable losse of so many liuings of principall value , cleane taken away from the church long since , by being appropriated ; the daily bruises y t spiritual promotions vse to take by often falling ; the want of somthing in certaine statutes , which concerne the state of the church ; the too great facility of many bishops ; the stony hardnes of too many patrons harts , not touched with any feeling in this case : who is there now that considereth this discourse , but seeth easily , the proprietie of his speech , & without an interpreter the truth of it ? that euen some of the best of our spirituall preferments haue receiued great bruises by often falling ; where the fault hath bin , that they haue light so hard , some men know , though you & i do not . and i hartily wish , for the good of the church , that you were able to proue , that he had spoken false in this ; to the intent that our reuerend fathers , the bishops might bee more beneficiall to the inferiour clergie ; more bountiful in hospitality ; more honourable in their attendance ; more able in their paiments to their prince ; more forward in the memorable works of deuotion ; building of hospitals , colledges , and such like : which no doubt , some yet do out of their pouerty : and last of all , more conueniently prouided for the auoyding of such base meanes , as are a hindrance of religion , a wrong to the church and a dishonor to their profession . the next thing is this ; multiplied petitions of worldly things , a kind of heauenly fraud , to take the soules of men , as with certaine baites . where m. hooker answering those , who dislike in our prayers the multiplied petitions , for earthly things saith ; it must be considered , that the greatest part of the world , are they , which be furthest off from perfection ; such being better able by sense to discerne the wants of this present life , then by spirituall capacity to apprehend things aboue sense , which tend to their happines in the world to come , are in that respect more apt to apply their minds , euen with harty affection and zeale , at the least , vnto those branches of publike prayer , wherein their own particular is moued ; and by this meanes , there stealeth vpon them a double benefit . first , because that good affection , which things of smaller account haue once set on worke , is by so much the more easily raised higher : & secondly , in that the very custome of seeking so particular aide , and releefe , at the hands of god , doth by a se●ret contradiction , withdraw them frō indeuoring to help thēselues , by those wicked shifts which they know can neuer haue his allowance , whose assistance their prayer seeketh . these multiplied petitions of worldly things in prayer , haue therfore besides their direct vse , a seruice whereby the church vnder hand , through a kind of heauenly fraud , taketh therewith , the soules of men , as with certaine baites . i know not in this point what could haue bin spoken , either more soundly , more plainly , or more agreeable to this purpose . and therefore it must needes be in you , either delicacie , or ignorance to account this a theorem of speculatiue doctrine ; the very metaphor of baytes , being not vnfitly applyed , euen by orators , to the best things : the next is these words : in baptisme god doth bestow presently remission of sins , and the holy-ghost , binding also himselfe to ad in processe of time , what grace soeuer shall be further necessasary for the attainment of euerlasting life . heere you aske of maister hooker , what warrant he hath of present grace in the very work wrought of baptisme : where by the way you cūningly ( with a truth of his ) mingle an error of your owne ; for who euer doubted but that baptisme doth bestow the remission of sins , and yet not this , as we haue often told you , for the very work wrought of baptisme . the next in these wordes : the signe of the crosse , as we vse it , is in some sort a meane to work our preseruation , from reproch , and christs marke . it seemes , that this speech hath made you to forget that ciuill respect , which had bin fit to one whome worthily you ought to esteeme , as reuerend ; for very rudely you say , when , where , or how , did christ tell thee , that the signe of the crosse ( as we vse it ) is the marke of christ , and preserueth frō reproch ? be not caried more violently then the cause requireth : for maister hooker doth not affirme , but saith , shall i say ? and addeth , surely the minde which as yet hath not hardned it selfe in sinne , is seldome prouoked thereunto , in any grosse and greeuous manner , but natures secret suggestiō obiecteth against it , ignominy as a bar ; which conceit being entred into that pallace of mans fancy , the gates wherof haue imprinted in thē that holy signe , which bringeth forthwith to mind whatsoeuer christ hath wrought , and we vowed against sinne ; it commeth hereby to passe , that christian men , neuer want a most effectuall , though a silent teacher , to auoid whatsoeuer may deseruedly procure shame . let vs not thinke it superfluous , that christ hath his marke applied vnto that part , where bashfulnes appeareth ; in token , that they which are christians , should at no time be ashamed of his ignominie . the last words misliked by you , in this article are these . assuredly whosoeuer doth wel obserue how much al inferiour things depend vpon the orderly courses and motions of these greater orbs , wil hardly iudge it meet , or good , that the angels assisting them , should be driuen to betake themselues vnto other stations , although by nature they were not tyed where now they are , but had change also else where , as long as their absence from beneath , might but tollerably be supplyed , and by descending , their roomes aboue , should become vacant . heere wholy mistaking maister hooker , you run into a strange discourse of angels , of their attendance vpon the elect , and aske where it is reuealed that they attend vpon celestiall orbs , and whether it be not sinne , to leaue their naturall charge ; and here you aske , whether he meane not the angels that fel : these , and such like , are those collections which your iudgement thath gathered , wholy mistaking the scope of this excellent speech . for he sheweth here that there may be iust reasons of non-residence , in vniuersities , in bishops houses , and last of all for their imployment in the families of noble men , or in princes courts . for assuredly whosoeuer doth well obserue , how much all inferiour things , depend vpon the orderly courses , and motions of those greater orbs , will hardly iudge it either meete or good , that the angels assisting them , should be driuen to betake themselues , vnto other stations ; although by nature , they were not tyed , where now they are , but had charge also else where ; as long as their absence from beneath , might but tolerably be supplied , and by descending , the roumes aboue , should become vacant . who vnderstandeth not now , that by orbes are ment those great persons , which by their motion do carrye inferiours with them ? and by angels assisting them , are ment those graue diuines , which are by their wisdome , holinesse , and direction , to moderate their motion ? why then , being but a parable , or an allegorie , run you to examination of orbes , of angels , of motion ; and yet these are things so well knowne , in the philosophers schooles , as that maister hooker , had no reason to feare , to take a similitude from them , without being called to examination of the truth of the thing it selfe . and this may suffice , for a moderate answere , to those things which in this article are tearmed by you speculatiue doctrine . only i must ad this , which maister hooker noteth in a troublesome aduersary , with whom he had to deale , that in this article , as often ▪ in this letter besides , there are two faults predominant , which would tyre out any , which should answeare to euery poynt , seuerally ; first vnapt speaking of schoole controuersies : & secondly , a very vntoward reciting of m. hookers words , that as he which should promise to draw a mans countenance , and did indeed expresse the parts , at least the most of them truly , but peruersely place them , could not represent a more offensiue visage , then a mans owne would be to himselfe ; so haue you dealt with m. hooker , where your misplacing of those words , which he hath vttered , hath framed a picture , which as you direct men to looke at it , little differeth from the shape of an vgly monster : for answeare whereunto , this labour is sufficient ; wherein i haue set downe , both his words , and meaning , in such sort , that where your accusation doth depraue the one , or that either you misinterpret , or without iust cause , mislike the other ; it will appeare so plainly , that to the indifferent reader , i shall not neede to ad any further answeare : for any man may see , that you haue iudged his words , as they doe colours , which looke vpon them with greene spectacles , and thinke that which they see is greene , when indeede that is greene whereby they see . the best remedy will be to vse charity , where iudgment wanteth . article xix of caluin and the reformed churches . where the persons of particular men , is the subiect of our discourse , we cannot well either be too short , or too charitable ; for of the best if we speake much , something will be wrested to a hard construction , if vncharitablie we shal seeme to follow the practise of those , which haue no other skill , to ouerthrow a generall cause , but by wounding of some particular men . and howsoeuer that cause must needs be weake , which either hath his beginning , or his greatest strength , from one priuate man ; yet doubtles in common reason it is no small policie , to blemish a truth , by detracting frō the sincerity and religion of such , as are the principal defenders of it . how much this part of the world hath cause to esteeme of luther , and caluin , there is no man of any learning that can be ignorāt ; in which respect , notwithstāding , by some mē , a threefold wrong is don vnto our church . first , to make thē authors of that religion amongst vs , which by many hūdreth yeers , was far more ancient then they both were : secondly , to lay the infirmities that were in thē ( as being mē , it were too great ignorance & flattery , to acquite them frō al imperfections in that kind ) euen vpon the religiō it self , which had no more affinity with the faults that were in them , then they had , with the framing of that religion , which proceeded first from no weaker author then god himselfe . the last , is y e wrong , which our church hath euen frō those , who vndoubtedly would seem in their zealous affection , exceedingly to fauour both . the ground of which wrong proceedeth only from hence , that those persons , & y ● gouernment , which place , time and other necessities , caused them to frame , ought without exception , to be an absolute patterne to al the churches that were round about them : in so much , that that gouerment , which was at the first so weake , that without the staffe of their approbation , who were not subiect vnto it themselues , it had not brought others vnder subiection , began now to challenge an vniuersal obedience , and enter into open conflict , with the most churches of europe ; but especially with those , which in desperate extremity had bin releiuers of it . thus , because some few , who neither in quality nor place were much distant from geneua , in opinion of maister caluin , were content to follow their forme of gouernment , others not weighing the riches of that mercy which had made their own church too great and honorable , to be framed to so narrow & poore ascantling , began stormingly to repine , that presently al things were not so bared to y e patterne of those churches , which in their opinions were most reformed . so that whatsoeuer any man spake or wrote , in disallowance of that , to be our modell to beframed by , or truly to the laying open of those conflictes , ( conquered with great policy ) which maister caluin had in the first establishing of that gouernment , all sounded harshly in the eares of these men , and was plainly construed to be a direct disgracing of maister caluin , which could be nothing else ( as you say ) but a discouery of a popish and vnsound affection . where before i answere to this , i must first tell them , that if they should with the like importunity seek to frame vs to the exāple of the primitiue church , in respect of gouernment , we should tell them that israel are not bound to the same things in canaan , that they were in the desert ; nor that those reuerend fathers 〈◊〉 bishops , who succeed in that apostolick charg , are not for their maintenance and state , ( though the authority be all one ) to be framed to that pouerty which was the portion of those , who planted , and gouerned the first churches . this being then no such necessity , but that the church may lawfully vse , euen those benefits wherwith god hath blessed her , setting her feete in a large roume , why should men without cause recall her back againe , to her daies of mourning , or feeding her , with the bread of teares , coupe her vp in those narrow limites of subiection , and want , seeing god in his mercy hath prouided for her now , the same gouerment to be administred , in a richer manner ? now how far all men are bounde to speake of those , whom they reuerence and loue , and yet in some cases do thinke not safe to follow , this is that error that hath deceiued many . for from hence , the priuate ouersights of those ( who , how famous and excellent soeuer , were but men ) haue growne , by the violence of some of their followers , to be stifly maintained , as vndoubted truthes , as though there were no difference betwixt being a man not alwaies erring , and not erring at all : the one is a worthy happines graunted to some few ; the other a speciall priuiledge not permitted to any , meerely man , no not to maister caluin himselfe . this serueth to teach vs , that for those things which we doe and beleeue , wee haue better warrant then mans inuention ; and that no man , how excellent soeuer , ( except christ ) may , or ought precisely , to be followed in all that he doth . for thus while we ad vnto men that honor , a great part whereof peraduenture they deserue , we detract frō that truth , which we make no where to be found , but in those , who inseparably are followers of their steps . that maister caluin ( who is made by you , the vnpleasing subiect of this article ) was , ( as maister hooker termeth him ) the wisest man incomparably , that euer the french church did inioy , since the hower it inioyed him ; i thinke there is no man of any reading , that much doubteth : and surely for learning , and vnwearied paines in his calling , men of best iudgement and vnderstanding , would be ready enough , to giue him that which belonged vnto him , if some priuate men out of their loue and zeale , did not too greatly ouerlode him with it : for doubtlesse , we should be iniurious to vertue it selfe , if we did derogate from them , whom their industry hath made great . two things there are of principall moment , which haue deseruedly procured him honor throughout all the world ; the one his exceeding paines in composing the institution of christian religion , from which most haue gleaned , that haue written since ; the other his no lesse industrious trauailes , in the exposition of holy scripture ; in which two things , whosoeuer they were , that after him bestowed their labour , he gained the aduantage of preiudice against them , if they gainsaide ; and of glory aboue them , if they consented . now out of this ( so hardly are we taught to keepe a meane ) proceeded this intollerable fault , that many were desirous , in an opinion of his worth , that all churches together with his learning , shoulde swallow vp , without making choice , whatsoeuer other imperfections remained in him . so that of what account peter lumbard was in the church of rome ( whom for singular reuerence they called the maister of the sentences ) of the same , and more , amongst the preachers of reformed churches , maister caluin was : and they onely were iudged the perfectest diuines , which were skilfullest in caluins writings . his bookes almost were reputed the very canon for controuersies to be iudged by . to this extremity , and far greater , the partiall affection of loue caried a number of wise men , who from approbation growing to strong praises ; frō praises , to admiration ; frō admiration , to a tyrannous opinion ; that it was wholy vnlawfull , in any thing to dissent from him . so that now , it was almost as necessarie to dispraise him , as to commend him ; because what with discretion , the church before might haue vsed with much profit , she scarce now could admit , without a generall suspition , thorough all christendome , that we durst not in any thing dissent from him . and doubtlesse , in some weake minds , that which at first was but praise , in the end was not many steps short of idolatrie . so that the practise of ezechias , in breaking to peeces that serpent of brasse , wherunto the children of israel had burnt incense , was not altogether vnfit to bee vsed in this case . for in kingdomes it is high time , either to cut off , or disgrace those , whom the multitude are willing to puffe vp ; when ( neglecting their owne ruine ) they are content to burie the happinesse of their countrey , in the ashes of anothers greatnesse . thus god both in mercie and iudgement ( in mercie to them that die , and in iudgement to those that are left behind ) doth before the fulnesse of yeares , cut off those men , whom other mens erring affections haue aduaunced too high , conueying that from the presence of vnstable mindes , whereunto desert and weakenesse , whilest it was in our sight , gaue strength that it could bewitch . this oftentimes i confesse hath beene my priuate contemplation , when i haue seene parents vntimely , to loose their children , in whom they tooke most pride ; churches , those persons of greatest ornament ; the cōmon wealth those , that were worthiest of all honor ; as if god had bin iealous , that these would haue stolne our honor , & loue from him . and therfore wise was the answer of that mother , who in one day losing both her husband , & her two sonnes , said , i know o lord , what thou seekest , my whole loue : which she thought peraduenture might haue beene lesse , if those things had bin left vnto her , which she found her selfe apt for to loue too much . and therfore as vertuous men haue voluntarily disclosed their owne infirmities ( scratching as it were the face of beautie ) least others should too much admire them ; so i perswade my selfe , that maister caluin , if he now liued , would much worse esteeme of your fond commendation , then of those speeches , which m. hooker out of iudgement , doth write of him . he was doubtlesse , as bishop iewel calleth him , a reuerend father , and a worthy ornament of gods church ; and surely they do much amisse , who haue sought by vniust slaunders against him ( a thing too vsuall ) to derogate from that truth , whose strength was not builded vpon mans weaknesse . this therefore being the practise of our aduersaries , you aske m. hooker , what moued him to make choise of that worthy piller of the church aboue all other , to traduce him , and to make him a spectacle before all christians ? giue me leaue to answer you for him , who vndoubtedly would haue giuen a farre better answer for himselfe , if he had liued ; there is not one word that soundeth in that whole discourse , to any other end , towards maister caluin , but to shew how his great wisedome , wrought vpon their weakenesse ; his knowledge vpon their ignorance ; his grauitie vpon their inconstancy ; his zeale vpon their disorders ; only to establish that gouernement , which howsoeuer not necessary for other places , was fit enough peraduenture for that town . neither need the present inhabitants thereof , take it in euill part , that the faultinesse of their people heretofore , was by maister hooker so farre forth laid open , seeing he saith no more , then their owne learned guides , and pastors haue thought necessarie to discouer vnto the world . but what , say you , hath master caluin done against our church , that he should be singled out , as an aduersarie ? surely that harme ( though against his will ) which neuer will bee soundly cured , so long as our church hath any in it to spurne at the reuerend authority of bishops . for howsoeuer those ecclesiasticall lawes , established in geneua ( wherein notwithstanding are some strange things ) might be fit enough to passe for statutes , for the gouernement of a priuate colledge , or peraduture some small vniuersity ; yet to make them a rule , for so great , so rich , so learned a kingdome as this is , must needes be a vaine desire of noueltie , idly to attempt ; and a thing in nature , vnpossible to performe . and therefore hee cannot bee free , as an occasion , though no cause of all those troubles , which haue disquieted our church for these many yeares . but it may bee m. hooker spake not thus against m. caluin of himselfe , but perswaded either by our aduersaries , in whose mouth , he is an inuincible champion , or incited vnto it , by some of the reuerend fathers of our church ; and therefore you desire him to resolue you in that point . can it possibly be , that you should thinke him a man of so great simplicitie , either to be moued to attempt it , by the perswasion of others , or hauing attempted it , that he must needs disclose it ? are all those flatterings of the bishops ; that alleaging of their authorities , ended in this , to accuse them as authors of doing that , which your conscience maketh you accuse to be euill done ? could you perswade yourselfe , that those reuerend fathers , whose authorities you alleage in the praise of caluin , would be drawne to substistute another , to dispraise him whom themselues commended ? is it not a thing differing from sense ? void of reason ? contrary to religion ? and if that be a fault that m. hooker is commended by our aduersaries , in no construction , it can be concluded to bee his fault . this peraduenture may commend them , who are ready to approue learning , iudgement , and moderation , euen in those who are aduersaries , but no way can touch those , whom they thus commend : vnlesse wee make the conclusion to light heauily vpon the best , both for place , wisedome , and learning that our church hath . haue not in all ages , the heathen thus commended the christians ? and did not libanius , thus thinke gregorie most worthy to succeed him , if he had not been a christian ? can we in reason denie , iulian his learning , because an apostata ? or bellarmine , and others , because they haue written against vs ? no , we willingly giue thē that due , that belongs vnto them , and hold it not vnmeete , to receiue euen from their mouthes , without suspition of trechery , that commendations which are but the recompence of a iust desert . the termes of hostility are too violent , and vnreasonable , which denie vs thus far to communicate with our verie enemies . but , you say , this was pride in m. hooker , to contemne all those of our owne church , as too weake to encounter with him ; and therefore he must raise maister caluin out of his sweet bed of rest , to contend against him . and here you vncharitably make a comparison betwixt golias and maister hooker ; only you say vnlike in this , that golias was content to chalenge one liuing and present in the army , demanded , but chose not ; sought for one , that was aliue , and vaunted not ouer the dead ; in all which respects by your censure , maister hooker is more presumptuous . to speake the least which is fit to be answered in this place , surely , hee which will take vpon him to defend that there is no ouersight in this accusation , must beware left by such defences , he leaue not an opinion dwelling in the minds of men , that he is more stiffe to maintaine what he hath spoken , then carefull to speake nothing , but that which iustly may be maintained ; that he hath not shunned to encounter those , euen the best of that faction in our land , your selues can witnesse : that he nameth m. caluin , onely to this end , to shew the authour of that discipline , which he was to handle , you must needes confesse ; that he rather reprooued another state , then discouered the violent and vncharitable proceedings to establish it at home , it was his wisdome : for we know that the age present is corrected , when the age past is iustly rebuked for the same fault . and there cannot be a better meanes to cure our disorder at home , then by discouering the effects that it hath wrought abroade . now , that which principally discouereth that you are not such , as in the title of this letter , you terme your selues , is , that you make not caluin , but christ himselfe the author of this discipline ; who , as you say , raised vp diuers men , in diuers places , as oecolampadius , swinglius , suychius , philip , bucer , capito , and miconius ; and ●aught them , by the same spirit , out of the same holy scripture , the same doctrine , and commandement of truth and righteousnes . in this you bewray what you are ; and how truly you fauour our present state , in giuing so honorable testimony of that church gouernment , which hath bin so much oppugned by the fathers of our church : nay so much misliked by the queene her self , as appeareth by her most eloquēt speech against those reformers . and i must needes tell you , that those who haue taken vpon them the defence thereof , are only able to confirme it , not by places of scripture , but by poore and marue●lous sleight coniectures , collected frō them . i need not giue instance in any one sentence so alledged : for that i thinke the instance of any alledged otherwise not easily to be giuen . a very strange thing sure it were , that such a discipline as you speake of , should be taught by christ and his apostles in the word of god , and no church euer hath found it out nor receiued it till this present time : contrariwise , the gouerment , against which you bend yourselues , to be obserued euery where , through all generations , and ages of the christian world , no church euer perceiuing the word of god , to be against it . finde but one church ( one is not much ) vpon the face of the whole earth , that hath bin ordered , by your discipline , or hath not bin ordered by ours , that is to say , by episcopall regiment , sithence the time that the blessed apostles were here conuersant . but you complaine of it , as an iniurie , that men should be willed to seeke for examples , and paterns of gouerment in any of those times , that haue bin before : it is to small purpose , that some daughter churches haue learned to speake their mothers dialect . in one word to conclude this article , such is naturally our affection , that whom in great things we mightily admire , in them wee are not perswaded willingly , that any thing should be amisse . the reason wherof is , that as dead flies putrefie the ointment of the apothecary , so a little folly , him that is in estimation for wisdome . this in euery profession hath too much authorised , the iudgments of a few : this with germans hath caused luther , and with many other churches caluin , to preuaile in all things . but thou o lord , art only holy , thou only art iust , who permittest the worthiest vessels of thy glory , to be in some things blemished , with the staine of humane frailty , euen for this cause , least we should esteem of any man , aboue that which behooueth . article xx. of schoolemen , philosophie , and popery . philosophie telleth vs ( if it be lawfull for me to vse so much philosophie ) that naturall motions in the end are swifter , but violet are more slowe ; and therefore heauy things , the lower they descend , doe moue faster ; and by so much also they moue slower , by how much they ascend higher . it seemeth that the accusations in this letter were such , as had their first motion , rather from the violence of some affection , then from any naturall inclination to vnderstand the truth . for surely , though i take not vpon me to censure any man ( being my selfe clothed with so many wants ) yet in my weake opinion , those , that would desire are solution of such things , as ouerthrow the foundation of the church amongst vs , which in your le●ter you professe , should hardly esteeme , the right vse of philosophers and schoole learning , to be an accusation of that kind . so that whereas , at the first your obiections seemed to moue with a greater strength , now in the end , they growe weake like the stroke of a man that is halfe tyred . but i haue final reason to complaine of this , which is mine owne aduantage : for without the armour of other learning , only in the strength of reason , i du●st incounter a stronger man then my selfe , in this , wherein you accuse maister hooker ; that the right vse of schoolemen , and philosophers , is no hindrance , or disgrace to true diuinity . and therefore , whereas you charge him , that in all his discourse for the most part aristotle and the ingenious schoolemen , almost in all points haue some finger ; and that reason is highly set vp against holy scripture , and such like : i verely perswade my selfe , that herein he hath committed no vnlawfull thing . for those schoole imployments , are acknowledged by graue and wise men , not vnprofitablie to haue bin inuented ; the most approued for learning and iudgment doe vse them without blame ; the vse of them , hath bin well liked , by those that haue written in this kind ; the quality of the readers of his bookes , though not of the most , yet of those whom the matter concerned most , was such , as he could not but thinke them of capacity very sufficient , to conceiue harder learning then he hath vsed any ; the cause he had in hand , did in my opinion necessarily require those schoolemen and philosophers that he hath vsed : for where a cause is strangely mistaken , for want of distinctions , what other way was there for him , but by distinctions to lay it open ? that so it might appeare vnto all men whether it were consonant to truth or no ; and although you and i peraduenture , being vsed to a more familiar , and easie learning , thinke it vnmeete , to admit , approoue , or frequent the schooles ; yet our opinions are no canons for maister hooker : and although you being troubled in minde , doe thinke that his writings , seeme like fetters , and manacles ; yet no doubt he hath met both with readers and hearers , more calmely affected ; which haue iudged otherwise . but it is a strange presumption in my opinion , for priuate men , such as professe themselues to be but common christians , ( which your writings , besides your owne confession , doe make manifest ) to prescribe a forme , either of writing or teaching , so plaine and familiar , or rather indeed so empty , and shallow , that no man may doubte , how vnlearned soeuer , to giue his censure . must all knowledge be humbled so low , that it must stoope to the capacity of the meanest reader ? but the fathers , say you , haue misliked it . indeed i confesse , there is an ouermuch vse , which is euill , in all things , where there is not an absolute necessity . besides things comparatiuely spoken , in regard of true vnderstanding of the scriptures , is no rule for warrant that they are to be misliked simply . for stapleton himselfe confesseth , in his cautions of expounding the scripture , that the schoolemen haue not a certaine , and infallible authority of interpreting ; which as to maintaine must needes be great simplicity , so to dislike all vse of them is intolerable vnthankfulnesse . but in this accusation , it is not apparant what you meane , whē you alledge out of luther , that schoole diuinity , hath banished from vs , the true and sincere diuinity . if this were the direct iudgement of luther , to condemne all schoole diuinity ; yet it is a strange oppositiō to alledge the sentence of one man , against the practise , and authorities of the best fathers . neither doe we vnderstand which it is ( the olde or the new ) that so much offendes you ; by old , we meane that scholasticall kinde of expounding , which the most eloquent fathers lately comen from the schooles of rhetoricians , and philosophers , haue brought with them , to the interpreting of holy scriptures ; that thus they might be able to teach , to delight , to perswade ; a matter fitting al , but not easie for any , that is not excellently furnished with humane learning . in this sense beda calleth prudentius the most noble schooleman of the spaniards , whom it is like in the seueritie of your iudgment , you would haue dispraised ; and gennadius in the catalogue of famous writers , reckoneth vp museus , iulianus , eucherius , and diuers others , amongst the schoolmen ; that is , amongst the chiefe professours of schoole-eloquence . saint hierome affirmeth of himselfe , that manie things in diuinitie , he handled with schoole o●nament ; and of saint paul he saith , that when he preached at athens , vpon occasion of the inscription of the altar to the vnknowne god , he handled it with a scholasticall kind of elegancie . is this then that which so much offends you ? was it an ornament in these fathers , and many others , and is it a blemish in m. hooker ? but peraduenture it is the new and later kind of schoole interpreting that you mislike ; whose methode is philosophicall disputing , made of aristotelian learning ; this sprang vp about some foure hundreth and odde yeares past , in the time of lotharius the second , emperour of rome , who recouering out of darkenesse the roman lawes , caused them publikely to bee read , and to be expounded by diuers writers ; by this meanes diuinitie began to waxe cold , vntill by imitation of these men , certaine deuout monkes , and others , vndertooke the like in expounding the holy scripture ; by which meanes euen vntill this day , there remaineth in the schooles tenne orders of their vsuall expounding ; by concordance , historie , postill , question , lecture , compendium , or abridgement , sermon , meeter , meditation , all which no doubt of it in your opinion , are esteemed vnlawfull and vnprofitable : nowe , many that were excellent in this kind , the church both knoweth how to vse with great profit , and in recompence of their labour , hath giuen them titles , with much honour . thus alexander hales , who made his summe , that excellent worke , by commaundement of innocentius the fourth was called the fountaine of life , because of that liuely knowledge , that flowed from him : he was maister to bonauenture , a scholer not inferiour to himselfe , of whom he was wont to say , that in bonauenture he thought adam sinned not ; meaning , for that illumination , which was in him ( & doubtles there was much in him ) as though he had not beene darkened by the fall of adam ; and therfore the church called him the seraphicall doctor . to these aquinas was not inferiour , who came so neere vnto saint austin , that some thought , hee had all his works by heart , and by a common prouerbe it was spoken , that the soule of saint austin dwelt in aquinas ; in whom aboue all the rest , foure contrarieties were said to excell ; abundance , breuitie , facilitie , security : in respect whereof , hee gained the title to be called angelicall . now for any man to follow the steps of these , though treading sure , as hauing more light , can any man in reason account it to be a fault ? is there no other matter of reproofe in maister hookers writings , but that vertues must bee faults ? but hee seeketh to proue matters of diuinity with the strength of reason : indeed this is a great fault , which if many had not beene afraid to commit , the world had not beene filled with so many idle , and vnreasonable discourses . but so it is , that through an ignorant zeale of honouring the scriptures , the name of the light of nature , is made hateful with men ; the starre of reason , and learning , & all other such like helps , beginneth no otherwise to be thought of , then as if it were an vnlucky comet , or as if god had so accursed it , that it should neuer shine , or giue light in things , concerning our duty , any way toward him ; but be esteemed as that starre , in the reuelation called wormwood : which being fallen from heauen , maketh riuers , & waters , in which it falleth so bitter , that men tasting them , die thereof . a number there are , who thinke they cannot admire , as the ought , the power & authority of the word of god , if in things diuine , they should attribute any force to mans reason ; for which cause they neuer vse reason so willingly , as to disgrace reason . then vsuall and common discourses are to this effect ; the naturall man perceiueth not the things of the spirit of god , for they are foolishnesse vnto him ; neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned . for answer where unto we say , that concerning the abilitie of reason , to search out , and to iudge of things diuine , if they be such , as those properties of god , and those duties of men towards him , which may be conceiued by attentiue consideration of heauen and earth , wee know that of meere naturall men , the apostle testifieth , how they know both god and the law of god ; other things of god there be which are neither so found , nor though they bee shewed , can euer be approued , without the speciall approbation of gods good grace , & spirit : such is the suffring , & rising againe of our sauiour christ , which eestus , a meere naturall man , could not vnderstand ; therefore paul seemed in his eyes to be learnedly mad . this sheweth , that nature hath need of grace , to which maister hooker was neuer opposit , in saying that grace may haue vse of nature . but paul chargeth the colossians to beware of philosophie , that is to say , such knowledge as men , by naturall reason are able to attaine . i confesse , philosophie wee are warned to take heed of , not that philosophy , which is true and sound knowledge , attained by a naturall discourse of reason ; but that philosophie , which to bolster heresie , or errour , ( which i am sure maister hooker doth not ) casteth a fraudulent shew of reason , vpon things which are indeede vnreasonable ; and by that meanes , as by a stratageme , spoyleth the simple , which are not able to withstand such cunning . he that giueth warning to take heede of an enemies policie , doth not giue counsell to auoid all policie ; but rather to vse all prouident foresight , and circumspection , least our simplicity bee ouerreacht by cunnin● sleights : the way not to be inueigled , by them , that ar● so guilefull through skill , is throughly to be instructed in that , which maketh skilful against guile ; and to bee armed with that true and sincere philosophie , which doth teach against that deceitfull , and vaine which spoileth . but haue not the greatest troublers of the church bin the greatest admirers of humane reason ? hath their deep & profound skil in secular learning made thē the more obedient to the truth , and not armed them rather against it ? indeed many great philosophers haue bin very vnsound in beleefe , & yet many sound in beleef haue bin great philosophers . could secular knowledge bring the one sort vnto y e loue of christian faith ? nor christian faith , the other sort out of loue with secular knowledg . the harme that heretikes did , was to such , as by their weakenes were not able to discerne betweene sound , and deceitfull reasoning , and the remedie against it was euer , the skill of the ancient fathers , to discouer it . in so much that cresconius the heretike complained greatly of saint austin , as you do of maister hooker , for being too full of logicall subtilties . but the word of god in it selfe is absolute , exact , and perfect , and therefore needlesse to adde any humane or schoole learning ; for those weapons are like the armour of saul , rather cumbersome then needfull ; and with these hath maister hooker filled his writings . i answer , there is in the world no kind of knowledge , whereby any part of truth is seen , but wee iustly account it precious : yea that principall truth , in comparison whereof , all other truth is vile , may receiue from it , some kind of light ; whether it be that egyptian , and chaldean wisdome mathematicall , wherewith moses and daniel were furnished ; or that naturall , morall , and ciuill wisdome , wherein salomon excelled all men ; or that rationall , and oratoriall wisedome of the grecians , which the apostle saint paul brought from tharsus ; or that iudaicall which he learned in ierusalem , sitting at the feete of gamaliel ; to detract from the dignity thereof were to iniure , euen god himselfe ; who being that light which none can approch vnto , hath sent out these lights , whereof we are capable , as so many sparkles , resembling the bright fountain from which they rise . and therfore vnto he word of god , being in respect of that end wherunto god ordeined it , perfect , exact , and absolute , we doe not adde any thing , as a supplement of any maime , or defect therein ; but as a necessary instrument , without which wee coulde not reape by the scriptures perfection , that fruite , and benefit , which it yeeldeth . in respect of al which places alledged , it must needs seem strange , that any for the vse of schoole diuinity , and humane learning , should incur that hard suspition , which you seeke to fasten vpon m. hooker , namely , that he is a priuie & subtil enimie , to the whole state of our church ; that he would haue men to deeme her mai●stie to haue done ill , in abolishing the romish religion ; that he would be glad to see the back-slyding of all reformed churches ; or that he meanes , to bring in a confusion of all things ; a tolleration of all religions ; these , and such like , are the heauie conclusions , that follow the vse of schoolemen , and secular learning ; and the least of those euils , which are likely in your opinion , to be deriued into the heart of our church and common wealth , from that dangerous poyson which is conteined in maister hookers writings . surely it is great pitie , that al men should thinke what they list , or speake openly what they think ; but doubtlesse it did little moue him , whē you say that which a greater thē you certainely wil gainsay . his words in this cause haue seemed to you , as an arrow sticking in a thigh of flesh , and your own as a child , whereof you must needes be deliuered by an hower ; but deliberation would haue giuen peraduenture , more ripenes , which now by haste , hath , as a thing borne out of time , beene small ioye to you that begat it . therefore i wil conclude , with the speech of the son of sirach : he that applieth his minde to the law of the most high , keepeth the sayings of famous men , & entreth in also into the secrets of darke sentences : he seeketh out the mystery of graue sentences , and exerciseth himselfe in dark parables ; though he be dead he shall leaue a greater fame , thē a thousand : doubtles this is verified in him , of whom you haue published vnto the world so hard a censure . article xxi the stile and maner of writing . as it is an honour to performe that which is excellent ; so it is a vertue to approue that which is excellently performed ; where to be wanting in the first , may be slouth , or ignorance , but to be wanting in the latter , must needes be malice . fewe there are , or haue beene in any age , which reaping the due recompence of their labour , haue done that good , which they ought , and haue not receiued that reward which they ought not . wise men haue thought no otherwise , but that this common lot , might be their portion ; yet the feare thereof , could not haue that power ouerall , to make them in that respect , wholy & vnprofitably silent : knowing , that euen that which they suffred for well doing , was their honour ; and that which they did well , and suffred for it , was others shame . this vice , in my opinion , is not more vsuall with anie , then with vs , who by reason of the corrupt quality thereof , haue imposed a silence to a great number , who by their writings , doubtlesse , would haue bin verie singular ornaments vnto gods church : whereas strangers of lesse merit , haue a twofold aduantage . the one , that we read their writings without preiudice of their persons ; the other , that with a desire of nouelty , we greedily deuoure ( as we do fashions ) whatsoeuer we think to be done by strangers ; this onely in all things ( how excellent soeuer ) being cause enough of dislike , that it is home borne ; but more iustly of silence , that it is disliked . so that when we haue sifted , whatsoeuer is likely to be reproued , euen the last thing to be examined , is the stile itselfe . thus haue you dealt with maister hooker , whom as in all other things , you haue set vpon the racke ; so in this you haue taken vpon you far more , thē beseemeth either the modesty , or the small learning that is vsually found in such , as professe thēselues , to be but common christians . for certainely to iudge of a stile , is not the least point of learning , though it be the least known : but peremptorily , to dislike , which you do , is more then only to iudge . for this , is but to deliuer a speciall verdict , as we thinke our selues ; but the other is to take vpon vs , exactly to tell what the law is . some i haue seene , excellently writing vpon the variety of stiles ; and the best , in my opinion , is one pascalius , who was like enough to iudge well , because he himselfe wrote an excellent stile ; yet surely there is in no point of learning , greater varietie of tastes , then there is in this : some preferre salust , others caesar , a third seneca , a fourth tacitus ; in one word , euery man according to his owne fancy . this , as it is in stiles , so it is in the seuerall actions of men ; where they are no sooner borne into the world , but censure , as a gossip names them . a thing i confesse needfull , and vnfit to be prohibited , seeing we reape oftentimes , more benefit by our enemies , then our friends ; yet this sheweth , that the world is vnhappy , where the best offices are performed by our worst acquaintance . if we come to authours , some dislike plato , as athenaeus did , calling him confused ; others say , i only esteem plato , who doth so cunningly weaue knowledge , and vertue together , as if he said , he were content to giue you knowledge , vpon condition , that you should be honest . some compared aristotle to that fish , whose humour is like inke ; liui● he likes not trogus , nor tully demosthenes ; lenaeus a seruant of pompeies mislikes salust ; asenius calleth him an affecter ; quintilian calleth seneca chalke without sand ; galigula dispraised liuie , as ful of words , and yet negligent , in suppressing the triumphes of romulus , gotten by the victorie of the tuscans . thus varro ( without question a mā most learned ) euen in the opinion of s. austin , by one quintus rhemius pal●●on was called a hog . surely emulation of learning , and difference , either of opinion , or maners , breedes a dislike in schollers . this hath bin , is , and shall be that euill , whereunto learned men must be subiect in the variety of other mens censures ; nay euen those bookes , which wee translate , because they are excellent , others wish because they are excellent , not to be translated . surely it is much easier , saith dio cassius , to reprehend others , then to moderate our selues . some are of so feeble , and weake stomackes , that they loath bread : nay some are of that inconstant humour , that what they commēd now , they dispraise the next day ; and what yesterday they dispraisd , they commend to day . for in the beginning of your letter , you cal it a sweet sound of m. hookers melodious stile ; and in another place , you confesse that his bookes are very excellently and learnedly penned ; and yet in this article , your last scruple is , because his bookes are so long and tedious , in a stile not vsuall , and as you thinke , the like hard to bee found . where it seemes you are desirous to reprehend , if you could but resolue of the maner how . i dare not take vpon mee to censure those , whom you say he is vnlike ; cranmer , ridley , latimer , iewel , whitgift , foxe , fulke : but i perswade my selfe , that whatsoeuer their other vertues were , wherein peraduenture they were more eminent , yet doubtlesse the best of them that now liueth , will acknowledge m. hookers stile to be very excellent . and although it is vnmeet i should compare him with others , whose labours haue beene profitable in another kind , yet i hope i may say without offence , that as profoundly to iudge , with sound variety of al learning , was cōmon to him with diuers others ; so to expresse what he conceiued , in the eloquence of a most pure stile , was the felicitie almost of himself alone . that honorable knight s. philip sidney , gaue a taste in an argument of recreation , how well that stile would befit an argument of a grauer subiect ; which it may be is more vnpleasing in the taste of some , because the maner is learned , & the subiect is not agreeing to their humour . doubtlesse the perfecting of a stile , and especially of our english stile ( which in my opinion , refuseth not the purest ornaments of any language ) hath many mo helps , then those honorable places of learning , the vniuersities , can affoord . and therfore in those things , which they conceiue ( and some of them conceiue much ) there are found in the princes court , diuers most purely eloquent , whom euen the best in the vniuersities may despaire to imitate . and ( if i may speake without offence ) i am fully perswaded , that m. hookers stile ( if he had had lesse learning ) ( a strange fault ) ( for the weight of his learning made it too heauy ) had bin incomparably the best that euer was written in our church . if our english story had been borne to that happinesse , euer to haue beene attired in such rich ornaments , she might worthily haue beene entertained in the best courts that the world hath ; but all countries know our actions haue beene better done then they haue beene ●old . of things affected we may giue a reason , but to aske , as you do , a reason of m. hooker for his stile , it is all one , as if you asked him why he knew so much . for doubtlesse out of iudgement he made this choise ( in my weake opinion , or strong fancie ) simply the best , and ( without comparison ) imitable to few . therefore your comparison of the bramble was vnfit , which by a shew deceiued you a farre off ; for there is much more by a narrow view to bee discerned in him , then hee seemeth to promise at the first sight . three things you desire with all instancie . first , to shew what arguments he hath alleaged , which are not to be found in the answer of that reuerend father vnto m. cartwright . to satisfie you in this demaund , if there were no difference , yet the consent of their arguments were reason enough , for you to allow m. hooker , seeing you haue giuen your approbatiō of the works of that most reuerēd father , whose worthines no doubt , can receiue litle honor from your praise ; yet you know , that the whole subiect of m. hookers first foure books , is an argument , as , ful of learning , so directly heretofore , not handled by any , that i know . secondly , you desire , that if he set forth his other books , which are promised , that he would be more plaine , and sensible . concerning those three bookes of his , which from his own mouth , i am informed that they were finis●● , i know not in whose hands they are , nor whether y e church shall euer be bettered by so excellent a worke ; for as the church might haue been happie , if he had liued to haue written more ; so she were not altogether so much harmed , if she might but inioy , what he hath written . but for you to prescribe him a stile , as it is an authority vnfit to assume vnto your selfe , so it were a request , if he liued vnpossible to obtaine . for as once the greatest of place for iudgement of law in our land answeared a client of his in my hearing , who was desirous to haue him take information of his cause , from another lawyer , that seemed more fully acquainted with it ; he wil speake ( saith he ) wel himselfe , by his own direction ; but if i should speake by his information , i should speake but like a foole : so i am sure , howsoeuer you your selfe may write , following your owne stile , yet maister hooker by your direction could hardly attaine the commendations that himselfe had already gaind . lastly , you wish him to be carefull , not to corrupt the english creed , by philosophie or vaine decei● , of schoolemens new borne diuinity ; giue me le●ue to exempt you from this fear : for i am fully perswaded , neuer any man liued , who would haue bin lother , to haue bin the author of any new & vnwarranted opinion , which might giue but the least shew of cōtradiction , to the faith which our church professeth . things are not to be measured by violence of speech , or vncharitable collections ; for who are on gods side , and who against , our lord , in his good time , shall reueale . and seeing you doubt of his soundnes so far ( y ● because he maketh the church of rome a part of the church of christ ( which m. sarauia , zanchy , & others do , that you wish him to take heed , that he forget not to giue his lawful soueraigne , her right , & full due ) giue me leaue to set downe his words , & in his words his sound , & feruent affection in this point . when the ruines of the house of god , ( that house which consisting of religious soules , is most immediatly the precious temple of the holy-ghost ) were become not in his fight alone , but in the ●ies of the whole world , so ●nc●●ding great , that verie superstition began euen to feele it selfe too far growne ; the first that with vs , made way to repaire the deca●es thereof , was king henrie the eight ; the son and successor of which famous king , as we know , was edward the saint . in whom ( for so by the euent we may gather ) i● pleased god , righteous ●●d iust , to let england see , what a blessing sin , and iniqui●y would not suffer her to inioy ; that worke , which the one had begun and the other so far proceeded in , was ●n short space so ouerthrowne , as if almost it had neuer bin , till such time , as that god , whose property is to shew his mercies then greatest , when they are neerest to be vtterly despaired of , caused in the depth of discomfort , and darknes , a most glorious star to arise , and on her head setled the crowne , whom he himselfe had kept as a lambe from the slaughter of those blondie times , that the experience of his goodnesse in hir owne deliuerance , might cause her merciful disposition , to take so much the more delight , in sauing others , whom the like necessity should presse ; the continuance of which mercy toward vs , in the abundance of his fauour to her , we wish may happely continue so long , as the sunne indureth . hitherto maister hooker . to conclude this small and imperfect worke , whereas you ioyne these bookes of maister hooker , with two other which you take to bee bellowes to blow the coles of sedition ; i perswade my selfe , that the ages which are to come , shall more then the present , esteem them with high honor : for mine owne part , what i haue don in defence thereof , it is neither from opinion of sufficiencie , who know mine owne strength in this kinde , weaker then many thousands ; nor from a desire of contention , which i hold ( howsoeuer sometimes needefull ) the worst imployment of all learning ; nor from a willingnes to flatter any , a fault ( what soeuer my other infirmities are ) whereunto i was neuer subiect ; nor that i thought those would haue bin wanting , who had , both farre more learning , and greater reason , to vndertake the defence , then my selfe had : wherefore , if there be anything , either vnsoundly , or vncharitably set downe ( faults , which willingly i would be loth to be accused of ) i submit my selfe to the iudgement of the church , and the courteous admonition of the christian reader . but if any man without cause , spurne or thinke himselfe grieued , and finde that conteined herein , which with iudgement , and sound learning he is able to confute , and be desirous hereafter to receiue my answere , let him set to his name , that writeth ; otherwise , let him thinke , that libels , personall , and of no moment , are to bee rather punished by authority , then confuted by any mans pen. and so i will hartily pray that no strife may euer be heard of againe , but this , who shall hate strife most , who shall pursue peace and vnity with most desire . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a19460-e410 iob. 32. notes for div a19460-e510 * wisd. 10.8 . * wis. 4.15 . the title of the booke . * in the letter pag. 1. a ibid. b pag. 2. c pag. 45. d pag. 3. lin. 10 a quando nec laudantem mouet adulatio , nec laudatum tentat elatio . * tanti meriti , tanti pectoris , tanti oris , tantae virtutis . the preface of the letter answeared : when men dreame they are a sleep &c. a vt argumen●o non sit propter quod alios accusant has ipsas odisse . dio. cass. lib. 36. hist. b epist. ad asellam virg . in prolog super los. c nicephor . calixtus lib. 10. hist. cap. 36. b in obit . humber●i . ber , c nihil ex ea quod meum diceretur praeter cognomen retuli . val. max. d si quid est quo vtar , vt●r ; si 〈◊〉 , ego sum . e nepotianus noster aurū calcans schedulas consectatus . pag. 19. lin . 16 lege carol. mag . fol. 421. a ira eius in manu eius . ber. b sereneb at vultum suum assidētium gratia , no ●ieret ●nerosus , sed visum integrum si bene recolitis non admisit . ber. eccl. 44.7 8. v●●s . 11 12.13.14.15 . pag. 2. a iustin. lib. 15. ex trogo . sixt sin. lib. 4. bibliothecae . epiphanius in 3. pannarii . a erat animus victor annor●m , & cedere nesciens infirmitati : ber. in vita humberti . b mors fecit quantum potuit , occidit carnem , & ecce recondita est in corde terr● ; separauit à nobis dulcem amicum , prudent● consiliarium , auxiliarium fortem . ber. eccles. 50.6.7.11 . wis. 3.1.2.3 . notes for div a19460-e1930 gen. 13. gen. 35.2 . gen. 31.34 . gen. 24.3 . gen 27 41. gen. 4.9 gen. 34 31. gen 49.6 . gen. 44.15 . ver . 12 gen. 38.23 . gen , 20.3 . diodorus sicul. fustibus caeditur . homicida quod fecit expectat . fuge nomen maechi si mortem fugies . stephanus ex nicosirato . tarpeio saxo deijciatur . leg. 12. tabul . * quae deus occulta esse voluit , non sunt scrutanda ; quae autem manifesta fecis , non sunt negligenda ; no & in illis illicite curiosi , & in his damnabiliter inueniantur ingrati . prosper de vocat . gentium . a nec periculosius alicubi erratur , nec laboriosius aliquid quaeritur , nec fructuosius aliquid inuenitur aug. lib. 4 de trinitat . aug. tom . 6. ser. 7 lib. 5. pag. 113. epist. 66 ad maxim. hic non indicatur substantia , sed origo . i. non quid sit , sed vnde sit , vel non sit : epist. 66. ad maxim. aug. notes for div a19460-e2750 bookes 5. pag. 106. sect . 51. pro. 8.22 . ioh. 1.1 . ioh. 17.5 . tom. 2. epist. 174 a●g . ioh 15.26 . in comment ▪ in iohan. 15 26 psal. 126. 1. corinth . 2 iam. 1. matt. 28. matth. 12. about the yeare 381. 430.451 . aug. in psal. 68 alius non aliud . vnum non vnus . aug. tom . 9. in euang. ioh. tract . 36. damasc. de orthodox . fid . lib. 3 cap. 6. ho● . lib. 5. pag. 121. aug. tom . 6. cont . max. epist. lib. 3.10 . notes for div a19460-e3450 iob. 17.3 . rom. 1. * o terrae ●ehiculum , & in terrasedem habens . quisquis tande es maccesse nostri●●●imis iupiter ; siue naturae ordo sic ferat , siue mens mortalium te veneror : omnia enim secrete , & sine strepituqui facis incedcrevia , & iusto libramine mortalia & humana . eurip. in troas . a booke 1. pag. 88. b ●●b . 1. de libero . arbit . cap. 6. summam ratio●em . caìetan , ad ●uit mam aquinatis in quest . 9.2 acts. 17. c super fluxus generalis . 1. cor. 12. d veritas á quocunque dicatur a spiritu sancto est . ambros. e si vnicum veritatis fontem de● spiritum esse reputamus , veritatem ipsam neque respuemus neque contemnam●● vbicunque apparebit . caluin inst. lib. 2. cap. 2. sect . 14. f io. 15.5 . g 1. cor. 15.10 . a posse habere fidem , est naturae ; habere , gratiae . aust. et prosp. cont . cassianum . officio et actione bona sunt sed non fine . aust. tom. 7. lib. 4. cap. 3. deu● . 4 2. gal. 1.8 . iohn . 20. vlt. 2. tim. 3.16 . rom 10.17 rom 15.4 . ephe. 2.20 rom. 3.27 1. cor. 2.14 io. 3 , 3 notes for div a19460-e4050 genesis . 13. ● 1. king. 13.2 esay . 44.28.45 1. iohn . 4. ecclesi . 4 9 of trent . d. whitaker . book . 2. pag. 102. booke . 2. pag. 146 hooker . li● . 38. 〈◊〉 supra . contra epist. fundamenti . cap. 5. testi● . vindex praeco . homil. 1. ad titum . interpres . epist. pag. 9. act. 17.28 . tit. 1. ●0 . notes for div a19460-e4580 hook. book 1. pag. ●0 61. de graetia et libero arbitrio & p. lomb. lib. 2. sent. dist . 25. 1. cor. 7.36 . libera sed liberata . rom. 6. rom. ● . aristot. 3. ethic. cap. 4.5 . clem. alexan. in strom. aug. lib. 2. confess . cap. 6. boeth . de . con . lib. 4. damasc. de . fide lib. 2. cap. 22 arist. 1 ▪ eth. cap. 1. senec. lib. 4. de . ben . cap. 7. in hypothesi bonum , in thesi malum . ang●n ●ach . cap. 30. part. 1. quest . 83. art . 2. ●al inst. lib. 2. cap. 2. sect . 13. inspersum est vniuersis s●men ●liquod ordinis ●olitici . naturalia corrupta supernaturalia ablata . de corrept . & gratia ad valent . cap. 2. humana voluntas non libertate gratiam , sed gratia consequitur libertatem . aug. vbi supra . cum vult non potest , quia quādo potuit noluit : ideo per malum velle perdidit bonū posse . aug. cal. lib. 1. instit. cap. 2. & lib. 2. cap. 2. grego . arimi . in in 2. sent. dist . 26. quest . 1. art . 1 gaspar . cassalius lib. 1. de quadripartita iustitia cap. 32. prima principia doctrinae moralis . ioh 5. ephe. 2.5 . 2. cor. 3 5. deorum munus est quod ●iu●mus , nostrum quod sancte vinimus . senec. rom. 10. imperium voluntatis . aug. in tract . 36 in ●ohan . prima principia . rom. ● 7. notes for div a19460-e5420 matth. 6 23 a●t . 11. eccl●s . a●gl . de hominis iustificat . su●●ma merce● est vt ipso perfruamur . a●g . de doct . christi . cap. 6. matth 5.11 ioh. 6.29 lib. 1. pag. 32 epist. pag , 13. a fi●es & sine & ante charitat● iustificat . luth. in 2. ad ga● . luth. tom . ● . prop. 3. fides nisi sit sin● vllis etiam minimis operibus non iustificat ▪ imo ●on est fides , in anti. concil . ad a● . 11. sess . 6. melancton . brent . clemnis . caluin . lib. 3. inst. cap. 16. necessitas praesentiae , non e●●icientiae . gratia saluamur sed non a s●ue bonis operibus . c●em . alexand. ● . strom. a in cap. 2. la● . annot . 11. b in matt. 25. annot . 3. c 2. cor. 7.10 d in matt. 15. annot . 3. rhem. ●est . meriting for obtaining : so in the confession of wittenberge . a casobon . in pl. epist. mereri stipēdia . cal. inst. lib 3. cap. sect 2. vsi sunt ( fateor ) passim vetusii ecclesiae scriptores , atque vtinam voculae vnius ( abusu ) ( so that it properly signifieth otherwise ) erroris materiam posteris non praebuissent . mark the word ( praebuissent ) gaue but only occasion . heb. 13. b pleased . notes for div a19460-e6230 hook. lib. 2. sect . ● . a art. 12 rom. 8. 1. cor. 1. psal. 32.1 . rom. 8. diliges dominum deum tuum &c. 2. non concupisces . a aug. tom. 3. de sp. et lit . cap. vlt. b zanch. de relig . lib. 1. cap. 6. notes for div a19460-e6550 hook. lib. 2. pag. 122. ephe. 5 ▪ 29. * matt. 5.46 . a act. 4 31 b 1. thes. ● . 9 . 1. cor. 7. hook. lib. 2. pag. 140. a non est criminis non v●●isse , sed 〈◊〉 & r●dd●sse e●t ●audi● . aug. de virg . cap. 14. b illa exi●untur , i●la o●feruntur , si 〈…〉 illa damna●tur . a●g . c 〈◊〉 ad eu●●ch . her. 40. her ▪ 61. 〈◊〉 vigilan 〈◊〉 . aug. her . 82. proficientem coronabo , non proficientem non punio . chrysost. notes for div a19460-e6950 a psalm 19. lib. 5. pag. 102. b gen. 6.5 . c psal. 51.5 . d psal. 19.12 e ier. 17.9 . f iohn . 3.5 . g eph. 2.3 . h lib. 1. & 2. irenaeus . cyprian . raeticius . olympius . hilarius . ambros. innocent . greg. naz. basil. chrysost. hieron . 〈◊〉 delinquendo , 〈◊〉 a ●acien●o . gen 4. exod 22 gen. 19 ●am . 5.4 a aug. ●er . 82. b pecca●um est vt●ndis frui , & fruendis vti . notes for div a19460-e7450 arbor scientiae complures priuat arbore vitae . bonauent . lux inaccessibilis . ● . tim. 6.2 . in●estigabiles 〈◊〉 eius . r●m . 11. psal. 97. ● prou. 25 , eccle. 3.22 , 23 , 24 , 25 , 26. art. 17. epist. pag 16. psal. 36.7 . lib. 2.46 . lib. 1. dist . 45. in e●●h . 102.103 . 1. tim. 2.4 bell. tom. 3. de grat . et lib. arb . lib. 2. cap. 11.12 aqui. par . 1. quest 23. by his reuealed will. rom. 9.10 notes for div a19460-e7940 psal. 122 a aug. de ciuitat . dei. lib. 18. cap. 51. b ser. 1. de s. s petr● et paulo . c lib. 4. hist. cap. 27 d euseb. lib. 10 cap. 5. optatus lib. 2 cont . parmen . epist. 166. et ru●fin . lib. 10. cap. 5 greg. lib. 4. epist. 32. ho●● . lib. 5. pag. 184. de officio pii viri ton. 1. de ec●l . lib. 3. cap 19. euag. lib. 3. cap. 14 , 30. euseb. lib. 35. hist. cap. 13. art. 19. de eccle . hook. lib. 5. pag. 188. preface against d. bancrof● . psal , 26.5 . ecclesia malignantium . catholike church . matth. 16 ephe. 5.27 . 1. tim. 3.15 . act. 5.11 matt. 18.17 act. 20 , 28. reu. 2 , 1. hook. lib. 5. ioh. 1.47 . ephes. 2.16 . matth. 13.47 in conc . nicen. vide hieron . in di . con● . lucifer . 2. cor. 13 booke . 5. pag. 186. rom. 1. ● . caluin . melanct. lib. 3. cap. 32. lib. 5. i●st . cap. 19. o quàm ●onesta voluntate mis●rierrant . in his treatise of the church cap. 2. notes for div a19460-e9200 2. cor. 12 acts. 3. matt. 13.3 bishops of lincol. 1. ser. vpon . mat. 13. cophinus seminantis . heb. 4.12 epist. pag. 23. sin . 20. prop●lis p●nnis configutur . ad marcell . epist. 102. epist. ad rom. london . m. king vpon ionas , pag. 541 de baptis . contra donat. lib. 6. cap. 2. aduers . cresco . 〈◊〉 . cap. 1. epist. ad cornel. epist. lib. 4. epist. 6. tristano chalco . notes for div a19460-e9780 f●●le . ang. artic . 23 heb. 5.4 . leuit , 21.22 num. 8. exo. 29 leuit. 8 num. 8 hook. lib. 5. pag 228. ostiarii . hook. lib. 5. pag. 240. ostiarii . lib. 4. instit. cap. 4 sect . 9. bellar. tom . 1. de cler. lib. 1. cap , 13. lect●re● . epist. lib. 2.5 . lib 3. epist. 22 lib. 4. epist. 5. lib. 4. inst. cap. 4 sect . 9. exorcistae . which did adiure those that were possessed ca● . lib. 4 cap. 49 sect . 24. zanch. in 4. praecep . pag. 688. disputatores . acolouthi . cantatores greg. in regist . lib. 4 cap. 88. catechista . gal. 6. eusib. lib. 6. cap. 13. & 20. all christians . bell. 〈◊〉 . 2. pag. 220. my l. grace of cant. d. whitgift . pag. 516. 1. tim. 2.12 . notes for div a19460-e10660 iew apol. aug. cap 10 diuisi . 1. the letter pag. 28. lin . 2. hook booke . 5 pag ▪ 226 aquin part . 3. ●uest . 62 8. pet. 1. cont. faust. cap. 19. lib. 1. de . san. cap. 4 bel. tom. 2. lib. 2 de sacr. cap. 1 caluin lib. 4. inst cap. 14. sect . 17. eccles. ang. art . 25. alia sunt sacramenta d. vitia salutem , alia promittentia saluatorem . aug. in psal. 73. exhibentia . zanch. in decal . lib. 1. cap. 16. pag. 396. t it 3.5 . hook. booke . 5 pag. 133 2. king. 5.14 . dente non corde , soris non intus . aug. habent ad testimonium damnationis , non ad adiu●orium sanitatis . a●g . contra liter . petil. lib. 2. cap 21. 1. cor. 11 tom. 6. lib. 13. cont . faustum manich. cap. 16. cont . epist. parmen . lib. 2. notes for div a19460-e11270 luth. de missa priuat . ●dit . anno 1534. aug. cont . donatist . lib. 4. cap. 13 cont. epist. parm. lib. 2. cap. 10. euseb. lib. 7. hist. cap. 6. &c. 2 lib. 2. de baptis . euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. in epist 1. ad himerium . ep●st . 22. ad maced . episc . epist. 77. ad nicetam . lib. 2. de bapt. cap. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 9 circa ann. 327. eccles. angl. art . 16. circa ann . 165 hook. lib. 5. pag. 129. but sacramentum ect sacra actio . lib. 1. de sacra . cap 27. lib. de . missa priuata . in audit . con●i●ii . trid. sess . 7. can . 2 tho. aqui● . part . 3. quest . 64. art . 8. lib. 2. de ●●cra . part . 6. ●ap . 13. perk. vpon the lords prayer . pag. 143. imp● . 1596. ruf● . lib. 10. cap. 14. 〈…〉 2.16 nice● . lib. 8.40 . notes for div a19460-e12200 roman . catechis . cal. lib. 4. inst. hook. lib. 5. pag 132. t.c. lib. 3 pag. 134. ephe 2.3.12 . iewel in the def. of apol. 2. par . pag. 150. 1. cor. 7. zanch. in decal . pag. 400. 1. cor. 12. in the letter pag. 31. lin . 16. lib. 5. pag. 130. ioh. 3.5 non enim i●●a tribuunt quod 〈…〉 . hugo . de sacra . lib. cap. 3 iren. con . her. lib. 1. cap 18. de baptism . epist. 70. ad . hugo . hug. de sacra . lib. 1. cap. 5. lib. 3. quest . vet . test. cap. 84 aqui. part . 3. quest . 63 art. 2. voto , non re . in act. apost . 10 sect. 9. rhem. test . in ioh. 3. sect . 2. wis. 4.7 de doctrin chri●t . lib. 3 cap. 3. petra erat chri●●us . 1 cor. 10 colos● . 2. lib. 5. pag. 135 notes for div a19460-e13000 col. 2.10 . ioh. 14.19 . gal. 2.20 , lib. 5. pag. 176. lib. 2. de sacr● . cap. 1. eccle. ● . 2. sam. 9. 1. sam. 6. notes for div a19460-e13270 hook-booke . 5 pag. 244. plin. hist. natur . lib. 12. cap. 14. philo. iud. lib. 4. biblio . hook. lib. 5. pag. 190. booke 5. pag. 61. psal. 149. reuel . 15.6 . mark. 16.5 . act. 1.10 . io the letter . pag. 37 , lin . 2. lib. 5 pag. 71 hook ▪ lib ▪ 5. pag. 154.155 . hook. lib. 5. pag. 160. hook. lib. 5. pag. 261 notes for div a19460-e13910 aliud est virtutem habere , aliud nihil nisi virtutem habere . ber. he preached yearly 286. sermons , he read 186. lectures euery yeare . 2. king. 18.3 defence of the apol. 2. part . pag. 149. 〈◊〉 . 12. of nouember . 1557 13. nouemb. 1561. 19. feb. 1560. aetas praesēs corrigitur dum praeterita suis meritis obiurgatur . gregor . in the parliament . 29. martii . 1585. the q. oration . t.c. lib. 1. pa. 97 eccles. 10.1 . notes for div a19460-e14520 in the letter pag. 43. in your letter pag. 35. lin . 29. cranmer , luther . lib. 10. cap. 11. in lib. de arte metr . nobilissim 〈◊〉 hispanorum scholasticum . in com. epist. ad ti●um . ann. 1130. sixt. sin , bib . sanct. lib. 3. pag. 180. pons vita . moritur ▪ ae●at . 48. ●n . dom. 1274. r●uel . 8.10 . ob. 1. 1. cor. 2.14 . rom. 1.2 . act. 25.19 act. 26.24 . 1. cor. 2.24 . ob. 2. col. 2.8 . sol. ob. 3. sol. ob. 4. sol. act● 7.22 . dan. 1.17 . 1. king. 4.29.30 ▪ act. 22.3 . in your letter . pag. 43. eccle. 39.1.2.3 verse . 11 notes for div a19460-e15350 sepia a cuttle . 〈◊〉 36. hist pag. 4. lin . 3. pag. 46. lin . 4. pag. 46. the l. keeper . querimonia ecclesiae . a booke of scotizing and geneuatizing . a modest and reasonable examination, of some things in vse in the church of england, sundrie times heretofore misliked and now lately, in a booke called the (plea of the innocent:) and an assertion for true and christian church policy, made for a full satisfaction to all those, that are of iudgement, and not possessed with a preiudice against this present church gouernment, wherein the principall poynts are fully, and peaceably aunswered, which seeme to bee offensiue in the ecclesiasticall state of this kingdome. the contentes whereof are set downe in the page following. covell, william, d. 1614? 1604 approx. 511 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 117 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a19461 stc 5882 estc s108881 99844533 99844533 9354 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a19461) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 9354) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1475-1640 ; 1408:01) a modest and reasonable examination, of some things in vse in the church of england, sundrie times heretofore misliked and now lately, in a booke called the (plea of the innocent:) and an assertion for true and christian church policy, made for a full satisfaction to all those, that are of iudgement, and not possessed with a preiudice against this present church gouernment, wherein the principall poynts are fully, and peaceably aunswered, which seeme to bee offensiue in the ecclesiasticall state of this kingdome. the contentes whereof are set downe in the page following. covell, william, d. 1614? [8], 215, [9] p. printed by humfrey lownes for clement knight, and are to be solde at his shop at the signe of the holy lambe in saint paules churchyard, at london : 1604. a reply to: nichols, josias. the plea of the innocent. with an added dedication to the archbishop of canterbury. reproduction of the original in the union theological seminary (new york, n.y.). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng nichols, josias, 1555?-1639. -plea of the innocent -controversial literature -early works to 1800. church of england -government -early works to 1800. puritans -great britain -early works to 1800. 2003-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-07 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2003-07 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-08 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a modest and reasonable examination , of some things in vse in the church of england , sundrie times heretofore misliked , and now lately , in a booke called the ( plea of the innocent : ) and an assertion for true and christian church policy , made for a full satisfaction to all those , that are of iudgement , and not possessed with a preiudice against this present church gouernment , wherein the principall poynts are fully , and peaceably aunswered , which seeme to bee offensiue in the ecclesiasticall state of this kingdome . the contentes whereof are set downe in the page following . by william couell , doctor of diuinitie . eccles. chap. 3.1 . the children of wisedome are the church of the righteous , and their ofspring is obedience , and loue . at london , printed by humfrey lownes for clement knight , and are to be solde at his shop at the signe of the holy lambe in saint paules churchyard . 1604. the contents of this booke . chap. 1 kings and princes haue authoritie , and ought to haue care , for the church gouernment . page . 1 2 the church visible of all other societies is fittest to haue a discipline , but neuer the same that some men desire . page . 13 3 the censure of a booke called the plea of the innocent . pa. 25 4 the proceeding of the reformers wholly vnlawfull . pag. 32 5 of contention . pag. 46 6 of ceremonies . pag. 55 7 of subscription . pag. 75 8 of discipline . pag. 94 9 of archbishops and bishops . pag. 103 10 of ministers , their office , and learning . pag. 124 11 of the maintenance of ministers , and of tithes . pag. 142 12 of non residencie , pluralities , and dispensations . pag. 159 13 of publike prayer , and of the defectes supposed to be in the liturgie of the church of england . pag. 174 14 of tolleration of diuers religions , and how farre dissenting opinions from the true christian faith , may and ought to bee permitted in one and the same kingdome . pag. 196 15 an humble conclusion to his sacred maiestie and the right honorable lords of his highnesse priuie councill , together with the rest whom it may concerne to defend this church . page . 206 deo omnis potestas & gloria . to the right honourable and most reuerend father in god &c. my verie good lord , the lord bishop of london . ( ⸫ ) the word ( right honorable ) is in great trauell with much euill , & when she shall be deliuered he onely knoweth who measureth al times with his hand , and before whose eye lieth open that bottomlesse aeternitie it selfe . the faces of kingdomes and states according to the prosperitie and aduersitie of the church amongest them sometimes looke heauily and sometimes chearfully as refreshed with more good . man whose reason and religion serueth to number these things feeleth in himselfe a true diuinitie manifested by that pure ambition of being greater than hee yet can bee ; whilest notwithstanding in the sence and feare of these things hee stoopeth as to a burthen that is too heau●e . religious and mature wisedome ( the safest builders of true greatnesse ) assureth men in prouidence to preuent the worst things or at least by foresight growing familiar with thē teacheth how to beare them with much patience ; fewe kingdomes there are which haue not eyther more scarres in the church not fully cured or else greater signes of greater insuing euils than our owne . i am loth to be thought to flatter ( a fault whereunto i am not vsually subiect and a thing needlesse , being the greatest hatred from the greatest loue which euerie beareth to himselfe ; ) but i may say truly , and i doubt not but what i say the world thinketh , the greatest part of this good ( next our dread souereigne ) is now ( without enuie bee it spoken ) your owne . the consideration whereof hath made me out of that infinite loue and duty which i owe to his grace being dead , and your honour yet aliue to dedicate these labours to you both , in the defence of that church , which truth , experience , & her aduersaries haue proued ( for gouernment ) the most absolute since the apostles time . that it is vndertaken by me is the greatest disaduantage to this cause ; that it is continued and daily receiueth strength from authority is amongst infinite blessings the greatest and most vnspeakable of this church . i haue dealt ( as your honour well knoweth ) in this cause with a threefolde disaduantage , one , that it hath so fully beene handled by so many of great learning heretofore , so that at this time a defence was rather requisite to tell those that hope for alteration that our church is still of the same iudgement , and spake not heretofore onely to please that state ; a second is , that the things disliked are not differences of any great learning , seeing wee deale with aduersaries whose chiefest hope dependeth vpon the allowance of vnlearned followers ; so that demonstrations of reason are more requisite than proofes from authoritie . last of all , they are a generation apt and skilfull to speake euill , i haue carefully and according to my naturall disposition auoided all occasion that might prouoke them to it , yet i looke for no other , neither by the grace of god ( so that this paines may benefit the church ) do i much care ; the strongest tyrant of things and men is fancy ; the truest gouernour religion , hallowed follies when they are vnmasked are but at the best the weake opinions of simple men ; of whom ( notwithstanding ) if they had learned humilitie and obedience , this church might haue much vse ; your lordship is ( besides that particular duty and thankefulnesse which i owe vnto you ) executor of his testament and inheritour of his vertues that was the true owner and possessor of these labours ; which if it please your honour to accept with their vnworthie author into your more priuate and inward affection , it shall bee my happinesse to be your seruant and their credit by your lordships meanes to doe seruice to this church . thus in the assurance of this hope crauing pardon for my boldnesse , i humbly take my leaue : desiring god to blesse you with all graces fit for so high a place , and with contentment and long life to my singular comfort , and the especiall benefit of this church . may 27. 1604. your lordships in all dutie ▪ william covell . to the christian reader . if the immoderate desire of reformation in some men had not extended it selfe further than eyther religion or reason would wel permit , and especially at that time when thankfulnesse exacted from vs all something like a sabbath for that blessed rest continued to this church by the meanes of our dread souereigne this cause and some others not yet published had with their vnworthy authors slept in a long and a charitable silence , and whereas the miraculous blessings bestowed and continued vpon this land could no otherwise rightly be vnderstood , than the true effectes of that church which was planted in it ( seeing as s. ambrose saith : that is charitie to be expected , that is charitie greater than the empire , if that faith bee inuiolate which preserueth the empire . ) i thought it vnfit to let these men vnderstand that the peace of this church was litle beholding to their paines , who in the middest of an vniuersall ioy sounded a seditious alarum to a second warre which as it could be no lesse than inconsiderate zeale in some of the tribe of leui to drawe their swords against their reuerend religious fathers as if with aaron they had beene guiltie of erecting a golden calfe ; so we hope , in the opinion of the most seuere , our defence shall neither be thought needlesse , nor out of season ; wherein peraduenture our labour is of lesse vse , because we encounter in particular men of no greate authoritie in this church , whom our directions were first to haue answered in another manner , but finding that to follow their steps had beene onely but to tread often in the same pathes which were wearisome in themselues and could haue brought little aduantage to this publike cause , we rather resolued ( hauing the approbation of authoritie to giue allowance ) to defend a necessary , weighty , ●ighteous and publike church gouernment , than onely to reproue and confute some particular obscure , and priuate men ; for accusing gaineth not that admittance in the eares of indifferent readers , which defending doth , and herein i may safely protest i looked at no other scope in the labour and cost of this vnpleasing imployment than the discharge of my particular dutie , and the performance of that seruice which i owed vnto this church , & yet if i had known which i vnderstand since that some more of master hookers works had bene recouered from the iniurie of men and time once againe to speake in the defence of this truth , i woul● most willingly haue obserued the praecept of the sonne of sirach : thou that art yong speake if need be , and yet scarcely when thou art twice asked : for the same things ( but who is able to speake the same things that he did ? ) being spoken by diuers are not the same , and for my selfe if any man thinke this defence a presumption , i may boldly say as e●●u did , behold i did wait vpon the words of the auncient and hearkened to their knowledge . but seeing wee are children of that church whose prosperitie was enuied and peace hindered by the aduersaries of this cause , wee could not but let them vnderstand that the voyces of angels , of men and of time and all against them ; and if wee were in the comparison of them ( as they bo●st of number ) but like the children of ruben and the children of gad , and the tribe of manasses in respect of all israell besides , yet if they will needes send vs a message by phyneas the sonne of eleazar and ten princes with him saying : what transgression is this that ye haue transgressed against the god of israell to turne away this day from the lord in that ye haue built you an altar for to rebell this day against the lord ? haue wee too little for the wickednesse of peor whereof wee are not cleansed this day though a plague came vpon the congregation of the lord ? wee must aunswere them as they did : the lord god of gods , the lord god of gods he knoweth , and israell himselfe shall know , if by rebellion or by transgression against the lord we haue done it , saue thou vs not this day . if wee haue built vs an altar to returne away from the lord eyther to offer burnt offerings or meat offerings , or to offer peace offerings thereon , let the lord himselfe require it . and if wee haue not rather done it for feare of this thing , &c. vnto vers . 30. wee hope they will giue vs leaue if their zeale make them iealous of any thing vsed or admitted in our church , to tell them that these are witnesses betwixt them and vs. &c. betweene our forefathers , and our generations after vs to execute the seruice of the lord before him , in our lyturgie , in our prayers , in our sacraments , and that neither their children , nor the children of any idolatrous church should say to our children in time to come , yee haue no part in the lord : and if for all this they cease not the heape reproaches vpon that church , whose absolute gouernment they ought with thankfulnesse to imbrace , and with loue to honour , we must tell them as saint hierom doth that amongest christiās not he that suffereth , but he that offereth reproach is wretched . wherein surely of all that euer laboured in this cause , he endured most , & with most patience , whom vertue crownd with much honour in this life , and according to his owne propheticall word ( ouercame whilest he suffered ) and now triumpheth . and for my selfe ( gentle reader ) i resolue humbly to endure whatsoeuer it pleaseth the vsuall impatience of their furie to lay vpon mee , saying with saint austen , in a good conscience i speake it , hee that willingly doth detract from my good name vnwillingly doth add to my reward . for i lay with saint ambrose , let no man thinke that there is more weight in the slaunder of another , than in the testimonie of his owne conscience . farewell . chap. 1. kings and princes haue authoritie , and ought to haue care for the church gouernment . wwhere right hath no other aduantage but fortune , and weaknesse hath got strength from opinion of zeale , there it is no lesse safe to maintaine error , than amongst better dispositions to defend a trueth . the circle of time , the best discouerer of mens secret ends ( and not the least , nor the least violent circumstance ouer the means ) must at length make knowen to the weakest eye that is able to discerne least , who haue beene thought wicked and prophane in humilitie for maintayning a truth ; and who proudly haue beene opposites to this end , that being ignorant and vnhonest , they might bee thought to bee learned , and seeme righteous . as there is not any one action since the time that this land first embraced true religion , wherein more violent and vnnaturall dispositions , haue discouered themselues , than in , and for the church gouernment ; so is there nothing wherein the wisedome , vertue , and souereigntie of kings , doth and ought more to appeare , than in the well ordering of that societie , where vnto the most vsuall and greatest harmes haue commonly proceeded from too much zeale : for that which man once apprehendeth as vertuous to bee done without great iudgement and moderation , hee seldome tempereth himselfe from doing it eyther ouer-eagerly , or ouermuch . this as it swayeth with inferior persons , ( who for the most part haue no easier and speedier meanes to become eminent ) so it is hardly tempered in those princes being eminent alreadie , whose vertuous education hath made them religious ; this being in one action to the people , the best assurance they can expect ; for themselues , the best testimony of a good conscience ; and toward god , a demeanour least vnthankfull for any straunge or miraculous deliuerance that they haue receiued . all these being made stronger , when a new people are become subiects ; when all men are disposed to giue strength to their hopes ; and make collection from signes ; and when deliuerances are seconded by the peaceable and happie accesse of a greater kingdome . so that in this case ( vnlesse to a minde that hath no religion at all ) it shall bee much harder to perswade a moderation than too little . for with righteous kings , and of vnderstanding , as nothing is dearer than religion ; so in nothing they imploy their labour and authoritie more willingly , than for the preseruation , and honouring of the church it selfe ; all kingdomes hauing no other safetie but this , their prosperitie to flourish for no longer time , than the prosperitie of the church is maintayned among est them . this being by all obseruation the truest signe of a decaying kingdome , to haue a cleargie vnhallowed , and the church vnhonoured . but whilest all men are carefull that the church may bee well gouerned , euerie man obtrudeth his owne fancy , and liketh best of those rules , which haue neerest affinitie with his owne brayne . hence commeth it to passe , that some men are not fully resolued , to whom especially belongeth the authoritie to prescribe ( with warr●nt ) the direct forme of the church gonernment . other offices for the attainment of this end ( as to instruct , and to aduise ) may in all re●son , to make the burthen of gouernment both more vertuous and more easie , belong vnto other men ; but to prouide for the safetie of the church , for the publicke enioying of the word of god , for the maner of gouernment , for the maintenance of the clergie , all these ( in a strict vnderstanding ) are the religious duties , and the honourable effects of the king , so that what authoritie is deriued vnto any , ●yther in a blinde and false obedience to the sea of rome , or through a partiall affection to a new consistorie , are both ( if not equall ) yet equally vsurpers of the kings right . nay whilest some of late haue beene earnest , though ignonorant refusers of subscription , they hane showed in their actions , how vncharitably they haue thought of their late souereigns sincere religiō . for to mislike the book of orders is indirectly to affirme that we haue no ministery ( which some impudently shameles haue dared to affirme plainly : ) not to subscribe to the booke of common prayer , is to teach that we haue no forme of church liturgye : and lastly , to refuse to subscribe to the articles of faith , is to make men beleeue , that our church maintaineth vnsound doctrine . this as it was alleaged once by a reuerend bishop in a sermō , so it is an accusatiō not yet cleered by any that i know ; a by one it is slubbered ouer vnhandsomely , making the obiection stronger than himselfe was able to answere truly : but this wee shall haue better occasion to confute hereafter . and it is too plaine what opinion they had of her religion ( liuing ) whom so boldly they dare depraue being once dead : but flattery looketh no further , than eyther to escape punishment , or receiue a benefit ; so that when the one is past feare , and the other past hope , wee dare then speake what wee thinke , and more vnreuerently oftentimes of the same partie being a saint in heauen , than we durst being a prince in earth . it were fit all men considered ( but especially kings , whose authoritie it doth secretly vndermine ) how farre the admission of a consistoriall gouernment in a kingdome may suddenly vsurpe vpon that right which scripture , and lawes haue ascribed to the king. that kings ought to haue rule in all causes , ouerall persons , as it is warranted by the word , so it is confirmed to the princes of this land by act of parliament . this giueth vnto them supremacy in ecclesiasticall gouernment , exempteth from inforcement of any domesticall or forreigne power , and freeth them from the penaltie of those lawes , both ecclesiasticall and ciuill , whereunto all inferiour persons in a kingdome are tyed . and howsoeuer sinnes in princes ought to be reprooued , and rights of clayme may be recouered against kings , yet in nothing are they liable to penall lawes , much lesse subiect to the iurisdiction of elders , or excommunication of this tyrannous consistorie . vnhallowed blouldnesses attempted in other kingdomes , and imperionsly affected and vrged by some amongst vs , nay the power to call synods ( an authoritie by parliament graunted vnto the prince ) some violent spirits haue attempted with that bouldnesse , as if those only were lawes , which were warranted by this consistorie , ( princes being but to execute what they appoint them out of gods word , ) whereof notwithstanding themselues must be only iudges . thus whilst the prince , warranted by his owne law , ( which is the publike act of his whole people ) gaue authority to some graue commissioners for reformation of ecclesiasticall disorders , they denie that any such ought to be appointed iudges and often both in priuate and publike , depraued that honorable and high commission ; a thing , as it is vnseemely for them to controule , so if our late souereigne in great wisedome , and care of the church , had not giuen it authoritie and strength , the bolddnesse of a great number , pretending a zeale , had growen to bee so strong , that in all appearance , there had beene little likelihood of safety to the queene her selfe . and seeing all attempts are most violent , that haue their beginning and strength from a zeale to religion , bee it neuer so false ; there can be nothing ( doubtles ) of greater vse , either for the safetie of the prince , the peace of the church , or the quiet of the commonwealth , than the seuere and reuerend authoritie of this high cōmission ; without which assuredly long since we had miserably tasted of all those euilles , which vncontrouled ignorance , hypocrisie , and crueltie cculd haue brought amongst vs. it is small reason princes should giue eare vnto these plots , which leaue them naked without meanes to defend themselues , or their subiects in the time of danger ; nay , those of the honorable and highe court of parliament , are to thinke themselues ( and i doubt not but will ) iniured by such , who haue taken from them on of the three states ( a state not of the least wisedome and grauitie ) and from them all that authoritie , which they ascribe to a number of ignorant and sillie artificers ( for such some consistories must needes bee ) and guided by a youth sometimes , neither of wisedome nor vnderstanding . it is miserable where men are ruled by no lawes , seeing nothing is in man of greater daunger , ( vnlimited ) than his owne will , which imperiously commaundeth ouer his fancie , that is able to corrupt and peruert all rules of order . thus they interprete tell the church , tell the consistorie ; which because iohn morrell did expound otherwise , himselfe was excommunicated and his booke burnt : there is nothing more vsull , than their pleasures to become lawes ; ( a thing peraduenture men may affect , which either desire change , or do hate gouernment , ( but doubtles in it selfe tyrannous and vnsufferable , and so much the more odious and daungerous , by how much the rulers are base , there gouernment lesse equall , and once admitted , not easie to be shaked of . in on word , there is nothing in the lawes of this whole land , ( nay not in the possession of any priuate persō ) safe , if this consistoriall gouernment may take place ; the benefit whereof as they magnifie ( little weighing those yet vnexperienced euils which must needes follow ; ) so the harmes of it are at large set downe by diuers others , who with learning and iudgment haue labored in this point . there is doublesse no societie deerer vnto god than his church ; in the gouernment whereof he hath made choice of two sorts of men to be imployed vnder him ; the first are ministers of his word , and sacraments , whose calling is perpetuall and necessary in the church ; for so long as the church is in this world , it cānot possible be cōtinued without these : of wihch we shall more fitly speake heereafter . the other are kings and magistrats : whom to the happy estate of the church , we hold with all reuerence , of such vse , that those are worst that mislike their gouernment , & that church ( in all reason ) like to be most happy , which god , in his mercy , hath blessed with the best king. this appeareth in the kings of iuda , who being vertuous , religion ( that was decaied ) was restored , and what the idolatry of others had corrupted , the vprightnes of some which followed did purifie againe ; god in his loue performing that promise vnto his church , that kings should be her nursings-fathers , and queenes her nursing-mothers . in this respect ( more specially than others ) they are called gods seruants ; not only because they serue him in the gouernmēt of the cōmonwealth ( a thing common with them and the worst princes ) but because he vouchsafeth to vse their meanes , as the fittest instruments to aduance his church vpō earth . and surely a double seruice god expecteth from them ; the one common with all christians ; the other peculiar , to serue him in that place as kings & princes . to haue performed the first is an action of praise and may giue great hope ; but to faile in the second , is staynd with reproch , & vsually accompained with much daunger : euill princes seruing oftentimes to act but the ruines of that kingdome by the fall of the church , in whose misery theselues for the most part doe perish . in the first dutie ( as christians ) they are not priuiledged aboue other men , they are tyed to same obedience , bound to as many vertues ( nay moe for exāple ) & must in the end ( being called to the same account ) be iudged with as much seuerite as the meanest subiect . be wise now therfore , o ye kings , be learned ye that are iudges of the earth . serue the lord with feare & reioyce vnto him with reuerence : in the latter the seruice of princes hath two parts , the one concerning the commonwealth , the other religion , and the church : to the first they are tyed as kings ; to the latter they are bound , as they are vertuous , and religious kings . the first in dooing mercy , and iudgment , in defending the fatherlesse and poore , in seeing that such as be in neede and necessitie haue right , in bestowing duely punishment , and reward ; and in all those other polliticke vertues , they are happy instruments , to make a prosperous and flourishing commonwealth ; the second concerneth his religion ; a duty , as it lyeth vpon all ( for all ought to be religious ) so especielly vpon the prince , who must not only be , but be the meanes to make all other to become religious : a thing , though not euer true vnder vertuous kings ( whose holy examples sometimes preuaile no farther but to make hypocrits ) but seldome , or neuer , to be expected , where the princes thēselues delight to seeme opēly prophane . if man had no other light but the light of nature , & would not so willingly beleeue what were done with , as without the scripture ; yet euen this point will appeare to be most true , being the practise of those men , who had no other guide for their actions , than the vnchangeable directions of the light of nature ; for whatsoeuer the religion was , ( as in most it was nothing but idolatrous superstition ; ) yet the transgression thereof was esteemed worthy to receaue punishment , and the appointment of this punishment was thought to be peculiar to those , who had principall authoritie to gouern the comonwealth . thus the athenian tooke vpon thē the power to condēne socrates ( a man peraduenture wiser thā any of the rest ) but faulty ( as they thought ) in religiō , & therefore to be censured by the authoritie which they al had . the like we read of the romās . tyberius would make christ a god without the authority of the senat ( wher though the act was needles , & to christ little honor ; ) yet it sheweth that both the care of religion belonged to the roman emperor , & that men ( euen heathe●s ) were not hastily carried to performe any actiō of that nature , without the aduice of others iudgmēt : neither euer the apostles or prophets reprehēd this care in the rulers in any age . it was easie to erre what religiō was , but all men saw to whom the care did principally belong ; neither should any mā deserue cōmendation for performing that which were wholy exempted from the limits of his owne calling . but al antiquiti● hath giuē in this kind , honorable testimony to cōstantine and theodosius , two emperors of much vertue . nay religi●n it selfe , which giueth the best rules to preserue religion , being contained in the two tables , expresly commandeth , who ought to be the ouerseer , the keeper and preseruer of both . inwardly the strongest mōtiue is religion , and they are most ( for the most part ) religious , who are religious for conscience ; but there is a feare from the hand of the maiestrate , able to restraine those ( at least from outwarde being euill ) whom neither conscience , nor religion could make honest . christian emperours haue with their zeale gained much honor for this in the eye and iudgement of gods church . this made them when contentions arose , to call councells as that of nice , constantinople , ephesus , chalcedon to purge the temples both from heathenish idolatry , and christian superstition ; to make lawes , the better to keepe men in obedience towardes god ; the irreligious contempt of whose worshippe ( though in the subiects themselues ) haue brough a iust ruine , euen for not forbidding , both vpon the prince and the commonwealth . reason then , which tyeth princes to procure the prosperitie of that land , ouer which they gouerne , exacteth frō them a principall care of the church , and of religion , the decay and the contempt whereof , are the originall causes of pestilence , dearthes , wares , and such like . for where humors are infected a little , it is like that the maners are first distempered a great deale , the most of the fathers are plentifull in this point . this made saint austine , learnedly to confute the donatists whose haerecy was like the error of some in our days , holding that princes ought to permit euery man to enioy , what religion he likes , and to persecute no man for religion at all ; this serueth to confute the two great errors of our time ; the one of the anabaptists , the other of the church of rome ; the first holding it vnlawfull for a christian to be a magistrate , much lesse to vse his authority in matters that cōcerne religion ; the other that the care of princes to maintaine religion , ought only to be with these word ; but to cōfute errors , to reforme churches , to call synods , these they thinke to be peculiar to the pope himselfe . the contrary to both these , wee are taugh by scriptures , by historie , by fathers , and by testimonie of some of the popes themselues ; who haue earnestly intreated the christian emperours to call councels . this then being in the opinion of all that are of sound iudgement , both the greatest care and honor to a christian prince , let vs consider a little those pointes that are absolutely requisite for the religious performing of this duty ; the person whom wee call the prince , is hee that hath supreame authoritie according to the forme of that kingdome wherein he ruleth . in humane actions that they may be performed aright , it is requisite , that we are willing , that we haue knowledg , that we haue power ; with out the first our knowledge & abilitie do want motion ; without the second our motion & ability shal want skill ; without the third our motion and skil shal want strength . the first is an vnestimable benefit bestowed vpō religious princes from the powerfull author of all pietie ; in this respect all men are bound to commend them to god more especially in their prayers , assuring our selues , that vnlesse wee or they faile , hee that hath giuen them to will shall inhable them at length to performe it likewise . the best assurance to discerne the author of this wil , is the considerations of the ends which are only two ; gods glory , and the good of others , which being not the scope of their actiō , it is no more possible that god should bee the author of that will , than that goodnes is possible to bee the author of much euill ; ends of doing which lye in the hart of man , and are onely discerned by god himselfe , are the true discouerers what is the originall fountain of that we doo . for the same things are not alwaies of the same nature , though the maner of performing be all one , if the ends be diuers . the second thing is knowledge , not of much lesse necessitie than the former , wherby hee may bee truely assured , what things are vnfit , and what are warrantable to bee reformed ; neither this onely in general , and by others , but if it bee possible in euery particular , and of himselfe ; a happines wheresoeuer it is , neither least worth , nor least power , to make happy both the church , & cōmonwealth . this only was thought to bring greatnes , & ruine , both at once into the church of rome ; whilst emperors being busied with other affairs , left the gouernment to the bishops ; the bishops to the suffragans ; these to the monks ; whose authority & knowledge , being much lesse , all things were ruled , with greater corruption & lesse truth . to auod this , moses , cōmandeth the princes , day & night to be exercised in reading the holy scripture ; next , to haue those about thē who are lerned , & honest ; it is a maime to a prince to be assisted by any that do want either . for to be learned without zeal , is to make aduātage to thēselues by a publick losse , & to be zealous without skil , is to coūsel oftētimes to matters that do much hurt . as the former maketh a king cōmonly to be ouer dissolute , so these other do make him to be too rigorous ; it is a memorable exāple of ioas the king of iuda , whilst he had ieboida the priest assistāt to him , al things happily succeeded to him , & to his whole realme ; but with his death ( the king being destitute of such ) all things as speedily came to great ruine . to further the kings knowledge , it is a means neither of least honor nor vse to call synods , of those churches that imbrace the truth ; and in them to asemble men of best learning , moderation , and least partiall , whose consultatiō ( for disputatiō is a means both to contētious & insolent to finde a truth ) may serue for resolution of such points , as weaknes in humility would be glad to learn. it is lost labour in any , & farre vnbefitting the honour of kings , to vndertake with curiositie & pride to get knowledge , seeing the one is not desirous to learne , & the other desirous for to learne too much . this hath bin the care of all religious emperors ; constantine the great , in the case of arrius called the councell of nice . thus theodosius the great , in the case of nestorius , the councel of ephesus , valentinian and martian , the councell of chalcedon against eutiches , iustinian the councell of constantinople , against seuerus , the patriarch of antioch which renued the error of eutyches , constantine the fift , the sixt synod against the monothelyts , george the patriarch of constantinople , macharius the patriarch of antioch , & their followers : the third thing is ability which shall easily receiue greatest strength from hence , if all lesser differeces remoued , a perfect concord & agreement be made with those of the same religiō . if israel and iuda be at variance , both shal be caried into captiuity ; the one into assyria , the other into babilon . thus the eternall power punisheth our pride , the fountaine of our dissention with captiuity , to learn vs amitie , & friendship in a strange land ; oh that ierusalē were built as a city at vnitie in it selfe ! if any man yet doubt of the authority of kings in ecclesiasticall causes , & ouer s●ch persons ; let them know that in● al ages , with good warrant , princes haue displaced and iudged men of the church ; as religiō , reason , & desert haue moued them . salomon displaced abyathar , and placed zadock ; theodosius , & valentinian , made a decree that those which were infected with the impiety of nestorius , should be deposed . iustinian is cōmended for deposing silueirus & vigilius ; ieremy his case was heard of the princes ; cecilian & athanasius being wronged , appealed to constātine : seeing thē this cloud of witnesses against thē , let thē hereafter not so vnreuerently ( as some haue done ) account those persons bauds to al maner of sins in princes , who maintain thē to be free frō excōmunication ; neither need they to fear ( as some of them say ) tha● this opinion proceedeth frō a worse cause than frō simple error . but the boldnes of some to excōmunicate the prince at their pleasure , hath both giuen incouragement , to seek alteration without reuerence , & perēptorily to call that reformation , which is but their own fancies ; hereunto i might add which is obserued by others , that this consistory taketh appeals , or the right of redresse for all wrongs , offered in ecclesiasticall courts , from the power of the prince , for they themselues sitting in christs tribunall seat , it can be neither lawful , nor warrantable , to appeale from them ; besides the law giueth vnto the prince the nomiuation of bishops , & some other electiue dignities in the church : the custody of bishops temporalties , during the vacation ; and patronage paramōt , or right to present by the last lapse : but these giue election of church offices to their consistories , and people , and would deuide all liuings among their elders & decons , whom they appoint to be paymasters of their pastors , if either i charge them with vntruth , or any indifferent vnderstanding can thinke this not danngerous to the church and the commonwealth , let their petitions haue successe ; their complaints haue audience ; their cause finde fauor : and in that one act , let religion , the prince , peace , and all vtterly perish . i omitt first fruites , tenthes , subsides , cōtributions of ecclesiasticall persons , all which are graunted by the lawes vnto the prince of this land , all which by thē are accounted sacriledge and robberie , and left wholy to the disposition of their polliticke consistorie ; and where as ( as wee shall haue occasion to handle heareafter ) some special men in particular cases , both in equitie , and conscience , are to be exemted by priuiledge , from those lawes that doe binde all , ( a power only reserued to the prince himselfe , ) these hould all dispensations vnlawfull , and howsoeuer they fauour it in themselues , no lesse than superstitious , and antichristian , in others . a thing doubtlesse of much vse , and great necessitie in all kingdomes , and of no daunger at all , where the king is vertuous . whilst the true consequēts of their false opinions , haue taught the world that these and such like derogations of the kings authoritie , haue beene maintained in that vnlearned schoole , they labour to make all men beleeue that princes haue not more honest religious and loyall subiects than they are ; a thing surely by experience neuer to be found , so longe as they haue entered , vnder pretence of religion to become abbaters and disposers of the kings reuenewes ; as if he that were gouernor of the church and the commonwealth , were bound in dutie by power and reuenewe but to haue care of the church only ; a diminution of all greatnesse is affected by thē , that by the disposition of that which they esteeme to be the superfluitie of all states , necessarie defences , and moderate ornaments may all faile to make them rich . chap. ii. the church visible of all other societies is fittest to haue a discipline : but neuer the same that some men desire . to thinke that either the church ( how putrified soeuer the religion be ) be in so good a case for gouernment , that nothing can either be added , or taken away , to make it better ; or that the same societie , how much soeuer disordered , be to be altered , by priuate warrāt ; is very daungerously , and apparantly , to erre in both . the first being the effect of too much flattery , and self loue : the latter , the daungerous attempt of an insolent presumption ; both hazardous to that holy societie , whom either they thinke for gouernment to be absolute , or absolutely to be gouerned by their owne fancies . in these two errors , the difference is this , that they first may easily erre , in thinking ▪ that to be best which experiēce hath taught them to be good : in the latter there is lesse excuse because they mislike all , whatsoeuer may not be esteemed to proceede from their owne deuice , that there is a gouernment requisite for that societie which we call the church , the wisdome of god hath made knowen vnto vs , both by proportion of those naturall , and ciuill societies , to which the church is compared , and by the perfection of that fellowshippe , which the saints in all ages , and places , where the true worship of god hath preuailed , haue had from the foundation of the worlde , amongst themselues . the first roote of humane societie ( as being impossible to continue without order ) is distinguisht by god himselfe into seuerall degrees and prerogatiues of husbands , parents , maisters , aboue wife , children , and seruants ; and yet all linked in the mutuall agreement of like dueties . the greater branches that rise out of these rootes ; cities , countries and kingdomes are neither destitute of lawes , to prescribe , nor magistrats to execute for the common good ; all receiuing dignitie , and strength , from this fountaine , that by the benefit of good lawes , they are well gouerned . if men were of themselues either willing , or constant in that which were good , it were needles to haue a discipline for all , where euery mans vertue were a lawe to himselfe ; but seeing our corruption is such , that we are easily deceiued by our selues , more easily seduced by others , but most and most daungerously peruerted through feare , and desire ( the one to spurn vs that we goe not too flowe , the other to bridle vs that we runne not too fast ) there is a line , both to direct , and to amend , necessarily limited to all sorts ; and this , in due season , lest disorder indured , bread confusion , the fore-runner of all ruine . seeing then the church of christ is the house of god , the citty of the liuing god , the kingdome of his beloued sonne , can wee thinke that he is careful for others , and carelesse , or negligent for his owne ? or that disorder is lesse daungerous , or lesse to be feared in the church , than in the common-wealth ; surely hee that in all places is the author not of confusion but of peace , will haue all thinges performed decently and in order for the gouernment of his church . to this ende hee appointed stewardes oouer his houshold , watchmen , and leaders , ouer his flocke ; laborers in his haruest ; husbandmen in his tyllage ; and being proportioned to a bodie , maketh some to bee eyes , eares , tongues , handes ; that is principall members , for directing , and assistance of the whole ; without which ( in all reason ) it must needes be vnable to prouide for the safetie and securitie of it selfe ; so that the honour , or happinesse had beene small , to haue made it a church , vnlesse this likewise had beene added , to haue made it a church that is well gouerned : for the vnitie of of the spirit is not kept , but in the bande of peace . this regiment of the church , is as well extelternall , as internall ; the latter is that gouernment which god hath by his holy spirit , and truth , in the hearts of the faithfull ; which as it is neuer varied , so it is not questioned amongest vs in the church of englande . by this which is the kingdome of his sonne , all men confesse , that god inwardly , and effectually worketh in his saintes the faith of his truth ; the feeling of his grace ; and other spirituall blessinges according to the purpose of his will , for the praise of his owne glorie , in which no earthly creature is able to ioyne or to concurre with him ; sauing only in this , that the word and the sacraments being left as externall meanes , there must be fitte persons for both , and a power in them to admitte , and reiect , lest happily , holy thinges be defiled , whilst pearles are cast vnto dogges and swine . from hence ariseth a necessitie of externall gouernment in gods church ; which respecteth the appointing of meete men , and the due approbation of such , as are to be credited with the free dispensation of such inestimable treasures committed to their charge . in this , whilst all men agree that it ought , and many that are religious are desirous that the church should be rightly ordered ; many intemperat men , without any learning , or care , haue offred vnto vs that kinde of gouernment , which had it beene once admitted , could not choose but time haue pocured a ruine to the whole church , whose labours ( as farre as they were honest ) no man hath reason to dispies : but being daungerou● , they are to be diswaded from attempting , and frendely to be counsailled , to aduise better . for to allow the best and fauorablest excuse that this cause can afford , ( a curtesie perhaps they desire not at our hands ) is to thinke they haue dealt as men , that comming in loue , to visite a sicke friende , haue euery man geauen his aduise without skill . the best reason ( in wise iudgements ) to deny alteration of any well establisht order , as also to procure approbation , with good conscience to such customes as are publikely in vse ; is when there riseth from the due consideration of them , apparant reason ( allthough not all waies to proue them bettter ) than any other , ( for who did euer require this in mans ordinance ( yet competent to shew their conuenient fitnesse in regard of the vse for which they should serue ; duties of religion performed by the church , ought to haue in them according to our power , a sensible excellency , correspondent to the maiestie of him whom we worship ; yea then are publike duties in the church best ordered , when the militant doth resemble by sensible meanes , as it may in such cases , that hidden dignitie , and glory , wherewith the church triumphant in heauen is beutified ; how be it as the heate of the sun , which is the life of the whole world , was to the people of god in the desert , a greeuous annoyance ; ( for ease whereof his extraordinary prouidence ordained a clowdy pillar to ouershadowe them ) so things of generall vse and benefit ( for in this world what is so perfect that no inconuenience doth euer follow it ) may by some accident , be incomm●dious to a few ; in which case for priuate euills , reamedies there are of like conditions , though publike ordinances wherein the common good is respected , be not stirred . let it be therefore allowed that in the externall forme of religion , such things as are apparantly and haue beene sufficiently proued effectuall , and generally fit to set forward godlinesse , either as betokening the greatnesse of god , or as beseeming the dignitie of religion , ( both which are shadowed in the riches and ornaments of our church ) or as concurring with celestial impressions in the minds of men , may be reuerently retained , some few , rare , casuall , and tollerable , or otherwise cureable inconueniences , notwithstanding . and in this case , it is not a consideration either of least reason , or least vse , to obserue what hath beene allowed as fit in the iudgement of all antiquitie , for the good gouernment of the church ; from which either easily , or much , to swarue , was neuer yet in experience , warranted to be safe . wherefore in the altering of formes of church gouernment , reason doth not allow it to be good either to change what experience hath taught to be without much hurt , or in the change to followe the direction of yong heads . for though ripenes of vnderstanding , be grayehairs and the vertues of such be old age , yet wisedome and youth are seldome ioyned ; for we must seeke it among the auncient , and in the length of dayes vnderstāding . so that if the contention be , to whom we must harken , and who are they that rule vs in this case , doubtlesse the aged for the most part are best experienced , least subiect to rash & vnaduised passiōs , seldome carried with an affectation of noueltie , or change , & therefore best in matter of counsaile to be best trusted , and safest in matter of change , to be wholly followed ; for as hands are seldome profitable to any great attempts , longer than youth strengthen them ; so wisedome is not of much value , till age and experience haue brought it to perfection . in whom therefore time hath not perfected knowledge , such must be content to follow them , in whom it hath , sharp and subtill discourses of witt ( which are not the ordinarie felicities of those that haue laboured in this cause ) procure many times great applause , butbeing laid in the ballāce with that which the habit of sound experience plainly deliuereth , they are ouer-weighed . let vs therefore as in all other things of deliberation and counsaile , follow the aduise of him , who said , aske thy father , and he will shew thee , thine auncients , and they shall tell the. they which doe nothing ( as one wisely noteth ) but that which men of accompt did before them , are although they doe amisse , yet they lesse faultie , because they are not the authors of harme ; and doing well their actions are freed from preiudice of noueltie , an imputatiō alone able to diminish the credite of that which is well donne ; the loue of thinges auncient doth argue stayednesse , but leuitie and want of experience , maketh apt to innouations . for vsually ( where scripture doth not gaine say ) that which wisedome did first begin , and hath beene with good men long continued , challengeth allowance of them that succeede , although it pleade for it selfe , nothing , but that which is new ( as their discipline is ) if it promise not much , doth feare condemnation , before triall , till triall noe wise man ( although women and some rash heades doe ) doth acquite , or trust it , what good soeuer it pretend or promise . so that in this kinde , fewe things being knowen to be good , till such time as they growe to be auncient , as wee haue small reason to dislike , or alter , what by continuance wee haue found to bee profitably honest ; so we haue much lesse cause to admitt that which in our selues , and our church doth want triall , and with others abroad , hath beene the originall of much euill . nowe because all thinges can not be auncient which are expedient , and needefull , in the church ; this being a bodie which neuer dieth , hath euer power , no lesse to ordaine in things indifferent , that which neuer was , than to ratifie that which hath beene before . for surely the church ( howesoeuer some men distast this point ) hath authoritie to establish that for an order at one time , which at an other , it may abolish , and in both doe well . laws concerning outward order are changable , articles concerning doctrine are not . there is ( saith cassianus ) no place of audience left for them , by whom obedience is not yielded to that which all haue agreed vpon ; for it is to bee feared that the sacred worde shall at their handes , hardly receiue due honour , by whom the holy ordinances of the church , doe receiue contempt ; it being a vertuous obedience in both , as well to the rest in that which the church commaundeth vnto vs , as in that which god commaundeth vnto his church . and if those things which are misliked , ( peraduenture of a number without reason ) were euils of that nature that could not bee remooued , without manifest daunger to succeede in their roomes ; wisedome ( of necessitie ) must giue place to necessity ; all that it can doo , is as much as may bee , to mitigate the euils , that when the best things are not possible , the best may bee made of those that are . wisedome will rather tollerate some euill in a forme of gouernment that is tryed , than in a gouernment vntryed ; to stand to the hazard of a farre greater . it is the honour of all kings that which is the title of the princes of this land , to bee as they are called , defendours of the faith : and this not onely in regard of enemies abroad , but in respect of those also which desire alteration at home , oftentimes a hope of ease giueth men that iustly suffer , occasion to complaine , whose discontentments ( how lamentably soeuer diplayed ) are not alwaies the euidences of true griefe ; nor euer the argumentes of a iust wrong . for doubtlesse let a church bee as well gouerned , as euer was any eyther in , or before the apostles time ; let moses and aaron both labour to make it excellent ; let dauid and all his counsellours aduise for the good of it ; yet she shal neuer want those within the bosome of her , who eyther wearie with that which is auncient , or in loue with some newe deuise of their owne , are readie to depraue that gouernment , which they ought for to reuerence , as being the orders of that societie wherevnto in all dutie they doo owe obedience . there will euer bee some corah , dathan , and abiram , to tell moses and aaron , that they take too much vpon them . such is the frailtie of humane nature , and so great our vnwillingnesse to liue in subiection to the gouernment of other men , that wee will rather , hazard an opposition to god himselfe , than haue our zeale to bee guided by the limits of any lawes ; doubtlesse those that are thus proud , may iustly suspect that god hath not placed them as workmen , in the reformation of the external gouernment of that kingdome , whose foundation was first laid with so much humilitie ; this if the first authors of these troubles had well considered , they would not in a matter of so great consequent , haue allotted the power , and authoritie of alteration , vnto the violent , and vnlimited passions of the rude multitude ; a thing in it selfe as without warrant , so incredible almost to haue proceeded from men that were furnished but with common sence . could any thing sound more pleasing to the lowest and worst parts of a kingdome ? could any thing moue sooner to rebellion , than to tell them that reformation of religion belongeth to the communaltie ? that the communaltie may lawfully require of their king to haue true preachers , and if he be negligent they iustly may themselues prouide them , maintaine them , defend them against all that persecute them , and may detaine the profit of the church-liuings from the other sorte ? if these strange opinions which must needes sound harshly in the eares of all kinges , had not dispersed themselues like a poyson into the veynes of this kingdome , the authors might haue slept in silence , and their hallowed treasons haue remained vntouched ; but seeing those who were sollicitours abroad , are now so neere that they be daungerous perswaders at home , it is a consideration not of small importance , as well to looke at the authors and the meanes ( with what pretences soeuer they are ouershadowed ) as at the thing it selfe , neither much needfull , nor verie safe . and howsoeuer ( in humane reason we haue now lesse cause than euer , to feare the daunger of this euill ; yet seeing no harme in a religious kingdome , with a vertuous prince findeth as little resistance , as that which is couered with the name of zeale ; all men haue cause both to pray , aduise , and assist , that the misteries of this euill ( the iust punishment for the contempt of his truth ) light not vpō vs , in our dayes nor in the dayes of our children , that shall succeede after . there is not any fancie grounded vpon so little truth , that hath so speedely growne to that greatnes , as the discipline of geneua hath ; it is like in our kingdome ( yet fit inough peraduenture for them ) vnto the gourd that shadowed ionas , but of a small continuance , and yet some great prophets are content to rest vnder the shadowe of it ; wee shall easily forgett the author of greater benefits , vnlesse some worme in mercie be sent for to eate it downe ; at the first in the auncient disputations , against the papists and anabaptistes , both in fraunce , and geneua , there could bee found but two essentiall notes of the church ; the true preaching of the word , and the right administration of the sacraments , but when some of ours were returned from geneua , they were not affraied to tell vs , ( a strange opinion to be publisht by learned wise men ) that maister beza helde the geneua discipline , the third note of the church , and of as much necessitie as the sacramentes or the worde it selfe ; which thing if it were as soundly proued , as it seemes it is constantly beleeued by them , all men had reason to acknowledge them the authors of much good , and to aduenture themselues farre , in the defence of it . out of this stronge opinion haue proceeded these vnreuerend speeches against our land : englande with an impudent forehead , hath said , i will not come neere the holy one : wee are neuer the better for her maiesties reformation . seeing the walls of sion , lye euen with the ground . rome is come into our gates . antichrist reigneth amongst vs , infinite are the speeches collected out of their owne writings by others in this kinde ; and yet for all this , they would seeme both to flatter the prince ( if so worthie a prince could bee flattered ) and highly to commend her happie gouernment , so many waies profitable both to the church and the common-wealth : but whilst we charge them with innouation ( a thing whereunto wise gouernors must haue good regard ) one commeth forth with great boldnesse ( yet one of the weakest that hath laboured in this cause ) and saith , wee craue no alteration in religion , but only , that the things which are ( standing as they doe ) may be brought to the order of the apostles vse , and to the canon of gods holy word in those circumstāces which remain yet vnreformed . do you speake cōsideratly in this plea ? were all things that are desired by you , and others vsed in the apostles time ? are they all warranted by the canon of gods word ? doubtlesse if you had perused with any indifferency , all the learned discourses , of those that haue laboured in this , you should easily haue found that most things demaunded , and so much desired , are new , and that wee are not now absolutely tied , to all these things that were in vse in the apostles time . it shall not be amisse ( howsoeuer it hath beene alreadie most learnedly performed by others ) to let them vnderstand , that the orders of the church , haue beene at times diuers , whereof some haue beene added , some ceased ; and that wee are not absolutely tied to imitate the times that haue beene before in euerie particular ; the church as it is militant heere on earth , liueth not alwaies in the same state , it laboureth sometimes ( seeming to decay ) vnder the crosse , sometimes it flourisheth in the aboundance of much peace ; sometimes it is gouerned by these , who are nurses of it , and sometimes by such whose hands are readiest to pull it downe ; now , where the affection of princes that gouerne is not all one , the condition and state of the church , must needes alter ; besides euen the chiefe officers , erected by our sauiour , of the apostles , prophets , and euangelistes , in that kinde notwithstanding are all ceased ; for although apostolicall iurisdiction , doo now continue ▪ in bishops , yet no man is ordayned to bee an apostle : that which is aunswered of ordinarie , and extraordinarie , ouerthroweth the cause ; for if these bee extraordinarie , and all offices that are reckoned vp by the apostle bee not ordinarie , then the gouernours of the church ceasing , no man can say with reason , that forme of the church gouernment is all one . to holde that all that was diuers at diuers times , was the same gouernment , is to make things continuing , and ceasing , distinguisht , and confounded , to bee all one . and if wee looke further to that which seemed to bee most solemne , the senedrin and great councell at ierusalem , is no where extant . and if they allow the forme at geneua , they are popular , but surely though in this no man , could looke for other , than difference to arise where trueth hath not laid the foundation of what they holde ; yet this is most straunge , that they are so firme for doctors , to bee distinguisht from pastors , for seuerall consistories for euerie parish ; widowes , and such like ; whereas geneua hath but one consistorie for diuers parishes ; no doctors , distinct from pastors , no widowes , and in fraunce onely pastors , and elders , are thought necessarie ; yea besides this , there were many things , commendably , in vse in the former times , which as the church hath power to remooue , so likewise hath she authoritie to appoint new ; our sauiour instituted a ceremonie which hee inioyned his disciples to obserue , of washing of feete ; the same continued long in the church as may appeare by a treatise attributed to saint cyprian , but now out of vse , and vtterly ceased . the apostles decreed that all should abstaine from bloud and from things strangled , the apostle willeth the romans to greete one another , with a holy kisse ; yet both these discontinued amongst vs , euery man praying or prophecying with his head couered dishonoreth his head ; a thing at this day not of that strict obseruance , but that it may bee done without breach of humility , or the apostles precept . that all the lawes and orders in the church are not durable appeareth , by ceasing of the ceremoniall law , and the iewish pollicie , so that the obseruation of the morall , and whatsoeuer hath dependance vpon that , is the true rule of discipline for maners ; other things are but the violent fancies of some weak men , who haue abused their zeale to doe much hurt . neither neede wee stand to prooue much the alteration of this gouernment , seeing themselues haue varied in the demanding of it . in the yeare 1572. the first admonition ( which the late most reuerend lord archbishop of canterbury did after confute ) was offered to the parliament , as contayning a perfect platforme of the discipline they desired to be established in this realme . within fewe yeares after they altered it againe ; in the yeare 1584. an other , which seemed to haue receiued as much perfection , as they could desire ; but presently after the parliament this was found amongst them to haue some thing amisse , and the correcting being referred to one , who had trauersed the matter a new , it came out more perfect in the yeare 1586 , an other in the yeare 1588 ; and it is like , as most of these were , against parliaments , so some thing now is to bee performed for this , if their cause can haue patrons , or the patrons can finde hope ; but i hope by this time , our gouernours are more wise , and hee who is able to discerne these plots , hath found by experience their desires to bee too proud , and in reason not likely to benefit this church , with a better peace ; so that wee may safely conclude this point ; that though the church of all societies bee fittest to bee gouerned with an auncient and veriuous discipline , yet that discipline is farre differing from the same that they doo require . chap. iii. the censure of a booke called the plea of the innocent . where the persons of men , haue so neere affinitie with the actions performed by them , it will require great moderation and care , so to censure the one , as that we may not iustly bee suspected to disgrace the other : the neglect of this , ( a fault which is too common both in the times before vs and in our age ) hath turned the confutation of errors to personall reproofes , and hath made the defendors , weaknes , or indiscretion , the greatest aduersary to a good cause ; and howsoeuer some partiall men are caried with as much loue to all they doo , as they are to themselues that doo it ; and with like disposition , are impatient to bee toucht in eyther ; yet no man of wisedom or vnderstanding , can thinke it to bee all one , to haue his action or his person , censured ; some actions i confesse there are of that nature , which are the defectes of our ordinary weakenesse ; and therein though not excusable , yet carry some reason to challenge a fauourable compassion , extending either to forgiuenes or to concealments ; ( which both doubtlesse are the effects of men that are truly vertuous ) where as some others , as it were by couenant are performed to that end , that they rest amongest all men , and in all ages , lyable to that censure which time shall giue them , and they merit . of the first sort are our sinnes , in which kinde our profession hath had some euill confessours ; of the latter are bookes , which as they are actes performed ; with the best of our iudgement , voluntarie , with deliberation , and with a resolution by couenaunt eyther to aunswere or indure what censures shall light vpon them , it cannot bee any breach of charity , or modesty , where the opinions misliked are defended , to censure the bookes , which are made in defence of them . and although euerie man in reason is tyed , to bee cerefull of his good name , yet seeing that both euerie harde censure , is not a proofe to continue errour , nor euerie errour an imputation to a man that deserues well ; it is not all one to say such a booke is euill written , and to say such a one is not an honest man ; the first is allowed in the warrantable liberty of all learning , but the latter , charitie , and humilitie , do both forbid , as being but the daungerous effect of too much pride . things that are euill in manners , are euill in that they are done , and are a iust imputation to the partie in that they are knowne ; but writings that are censured , carry not euer that sentence among them , which some ignorant , or partiall opposite , shall impose vpon them ; nor euer doo men censure , as some enemies peraduenture would make them speake . there are commentaries wee know vpon saint luke , which passe vnder saint ambrose name , of which ruffinus in his second booke of inuectiues , maketh saint hierome to giue this censure , that hee dallyed in the words , and slept in the sence . which surely as the best writers are of opinion , was rather forged by ruffinus , to make saint herome odious , than spoken by saint hierome , to disgrace saint ambrose . doubtlesse it were great pity , that seeing the world so much erreth in the choise of friends , that this so necessary an office rather than omitted , should not be performed by our worst acquaintance , and the resolution of all men ought to be this ( which i thank god i finde in my selfe ) if thy friend chide iustly in his censure , he hath profited thee , if vndeseruedly yet hee meant to doe thee good , so that to the first being bound for that which he hath donne , and to the other for that which he would haue done , in reason for this good office , were tyed to both ; and for my selfe i neuer wrot any thing , with that minde to haue it publisht in print ( although some things i haue don for which with master beza i craue pardon ) but i am very willingly content to be censured for them ; when the chiefe troubles of the church for discipline were either appeased with discretion , or else buried with the authors of them , sodainly in the yeare 1602 came forth a booke written by maister nicholles , as an apologie for the dealing in that cause intituled the plea of the innocent . wherein as there were many things , that serued to little vse , sauing only to expresse that honest desire to be wel thought of , which peraduenture the author had ; so the first thinge , though not the greatest in my opinion to be misliked , was the want of due consideration of the time , for surely if salomon said true ( which no man hath reason to make doubt of ) that there was a time for al things ; a time to keepe silēce and a time to speake , in my weake iudgment , it had beene much sitter ( considering the eager contentiō amongst those of the church of rome ) to haue beene lookers on , rather at the euent of that quarrel , than to haue beene authors of any new disagreement amongst ourselues ; but so different are the dispositiōs of men , that what one mā taketh to be a reason why a thing should be done , and other peraduēture taketh it to be a reasō why it should not be don ; to haue forborne a little had beene much safer for the church , & in all reasō more honorable for your selues . i wish the author of that booke had those three ornamēts , with s. hierom calleth the foundation of all vertue ; a patience to be silēt , an oportunitie to speak , & a cōtempt of riches . doubtles to renue an vnnaturall contention that was almost buried , & especially at that time , when all proceedings in the church wer without rigor , as it could not choose , but be labour euil spent , so it was likely to bring little aduantage vnto gods church , peraduēture i mistake the cause , which moued him then to vndertake that trettise , wee will heare himselfe in his preface what he saith , we haue suffered ( meaning himselfe and others that haue laboured for reformations , and indured much reproach , and cōtempt , which we haue patiently borne , and with great silence , for diuers yeares sustained , that on our part the sacred word of righteousnesse , might not be euill spoken of , and as much as in vs lieth , wee might cut-off all occasions to the common aduersarie to preuaile against the holy church of christ which is among vs. this surely was iust reason , and if it were performed as he saith , it was not performed without iust cause ; for doubtles there is nothing of so small moment that hath brought greater disaduantage to our church , than that with so much violence we haue deferred amongst our selues and blessednesse surely shall be their portion , who in this kinde haue beene forward to make peace ; but it is not these imbracings of ioab , nor the kisses of iudas , that can bury from the worlds eye , those bitter inuectiues , of whittingam , good man knox , buckanan , gilby , martin , throgmorton , pennry , fenner and sundrie other , most odious and vnsauerie bookes ( besides a great number of others without name ) all which must needes testifie , that for this whole time of our happie peace , whatsoeuer the occasions were , the matter hath beene carried with little silence , and lesse patience . these men in this case ( how well soeuer they haue deserued otherwise , ) haue not bin for bitternesse of speech much inferiour to the heretikes of former times , and of whose followers i may say , with saint chrisostom ; in age they are yonger but in malice equall ; the broode of serpents are of lesse stature , but haue not lesse poysō the whelps of wolues , though they cannot hurt so cunningly , yee will hurt with biting , and desire to sucke blood. the some of all is as sidonius speaketh ; openly they enuied , basely they forged , and seruilelie they were proud ; and that which made all this to be much worse , was that the authors of this euill-speaking , made religion to be a warrant to speake euill ; and whilst they offended vpon this ground , others were desirous to offend , that they might not differ , from their example so that a double fault lyeth vpon the first author ; one that they offended in their owne person , the second that they were examples to others to the like offence . but why continued you not in this silence still ? notwithstanding all this ( say you ) the state of things is worse than euer before and i cannot tell whether our conniuence in suffering of euill speeches against vs , hath done the church harme . for nowe papists begin to comfort themselues , yea they challeng vnto thē the name of honest and true men , and good subiects , and by the reprochfull name of puritan , all godly protestats are most cunningly depraued . giue me leaue quietlie to tell you this much ; that ( vnlesse i mistake it ) you haue little reason or any that hath laboured in that cause to thinke that the state of things is worse than before , at that time when you wrote thus what men were committed for their disobedience ? arraigned for their treasons ? or where was th●t assault as you call it of subscription ? besids , all godly protestants are not tearmed puritans ; no it is but the singular affection of a some few , that would seeme vpright , which haue gained that name , wherein they doe much glory , last of all if by your sufferāce , some priests grewe insolent , and were not affraide in comparison to make themselues to bee more righteous than you , this was no reason so vnreasonably to prouoke the reuerend fathers of the church against you ; but rather all to haue ioyned and your selues formost against them , and yet he not gniltie that is accused , but he that is conuinced in this cause . but to let passe the occasion of that treatise ; giue me leaue without offence to giue you my opinion of the whole booke : it is a verball reiterating of the same things ; handled and discoursed by some of those with whom by some occasiō you haue much neernes , i speak it not that i thinke you had their helpe , for to this their needes none , but to shew that the labour might well haue beene spared seeing others with farre better successe , had trauelled in that same cause ; contradictions there are diuers and all is vnsaid in the last chapter , which before you haue handled in the whole booke ; speaches that sauour of slattery too plaine . first of the queene whose worthinesse farre exceeded whatsoeuer you could speake of her , but surely you cannot possiblie commend her gouernment , who as it seemes by your complaints was no more carefull to haue the church reformed , as you deale with the queene so you deale with the councill , nay rather than faile you will flatter the bishops also . you reckon vpa true catologue of their excellent vses in this church ; & yet notwithstanding , if any harme should haue come to our late queene , you threaten a little after to lay it their charge . much like vnto the author of the demonstration of discipline who saith that the bishops by their gouernment giue leaue to a man to be any thing , but a sound christian ; nay your selfe feare not to say , ( which certainly is not true , ) they that were incensed against the puritanes , by the papists meanes ; nay you spare not our first bishops , in our late souereignes time , which hauing fledd in queene maries dayes , were not likely in reason to be fauourers of the church of r●me ; herevnto i may ad your often repetitions of the same things ; besides is not this a strang phrase ? we cannot tell whether we might by the lawes and order of this realme subscribe , although it were otherwise lawfull by gods word . as if the lawes of this land could be a restraint for subscribing being warrāted in gods word , which they so earnestly impose only in this respect because it is so warranted . i omitt false english , which could not be the printers fault . the principall points which you seeme to handle we will answere , god willing , in the chapters following ; and with this desire rather to finde out the truth than to confute you , the one is a dutie , but the other can be smale honor . neither are you to thinke me ouer arrogāt in this cēsure , seeing i may much better doe it to you than you to his grace whom you ought in all dutie not to haue named , but with greater honor , hauing shewed vnto you more fauour , as yourselfe connot but confesse , than many others of your qualitie & deserts . i will therefore conclude this point , saying with that learned man ( whom i must euer reuerence ) as he spake of maister cartwrights second reply . let me not liue if euer i sawe any thing writtē more loosely or almost most childishly , and after much to the same effect , the conclusion is this , he is alltogether vnworthie to bee confuted by any man of learning . surely there is nothing we doe tast worse thā to haue a true censure of those things , which oftentimes either out of ignorance or affection are much esteemed , which serueth in the ende only to delude our selues and deceiue others ; but though the flatterie of parasites doe seeme pleasant , yet the wounds of a louer are much better . chap. iiii. the proceeding of the reformers wholy vnlawfull . it falleth oftentimes out in the deliberations of men , that where they haue iust reason to desire reformation of that which is faultie , the meanes many times to attaine this are in themselues vnlawfull and lesse safe . their arc few kingdoms which haue not found this to be true , both in the church and the commonwealth . for as in all states the lowest are aptest to reeciue harme , and so euer to pretend that they receiue wrong , and hauing least iudgment to moderate the sence of euill , are most impatient to suffer euill ; so whilst they become vnskilfull phisitions to a pub like sicknesse , they make vsually the remedie worse than the disease it selfe ; that there is any kingdome gouerned with so much happinesse , wherein the hand of authoritie is carried with that equal tenor , that either rewards or punishmēts are not , or are not thought to bee bestowed by fauour , as we scarcely read of any that haue beene before vs so neither can we hope for a better fortune , to those that are present or shall succeed heereafter . for where true causes of complaint are wanting , vnnecessarie discontentments are readie to make them to seeme true , nay the church it selfe ( a societie that hath farre better lawes to gouerne it than any kingdome ) seldome gaineth this opinion from all , but that some violēt spirits , dare vndertake by orders deriued out of their owne fancies , to frame a gouernment that should be more holy , and more excellent . so that whilst they are earnest conceitours of this forme , ( a forme peraduenture without warrant and therefore in the ende not likely to proue safe ) they fall ( a thing vsuall ) into so great an admiration of their owne creature , that any other gouernment ( be it neuer so profitable and vertuous ) is despised , and in the ende , nothing is of power to hinder the building of this babell , but the confusion of tongues . so that reformatiō ( by a long continued distēper ) which ought to be the care and the conscionable desire of all , commeth at the length to be the preposterous and violent misshapen disorder of some few ; all men hauing this defect by nature , that where they haue power to discerne an euill , they haue not the vnderstanding to finde out the meanes for to make it lesse , the consideration of this as it ought to make those in authoritie to haue more care and digligence ; so vndoubtedly it serueth to restraine the vncharitable constructions of priuat men , who must not thinke all men to be hypocrites that are in this case carried with lesse learning , and more zeale ; for doubtlesse in our church , a great number haue vnfeinedly though without discretion wasted their zeale , and their labour , in that cause with much hurt , which if they could haue beene so cōtent , might haue serued the church to a better vse . but seeing that cause ( how euill soeuer handled ) hath found so much fauour euen at their hands who in reason had least cause to allow disorder ; and that nothing is to be more suspected as euill to be don than that which we finde to be euill donne , we will make a short but a true narration of this course , which hath beene held from the beginning for the establishment of this gouernment . neither is it fit that the particular ouersigts of some fewe , and peraduenture of such as either were , or were thought least fit to be imployed in a matter of that momēt , should be any iust exception to that proceeding , if men of greater learning , and cheefest in that action , it had beene carried without violence , with much grauitie , moderation , and zeale , but if we finde both the words , and the deedes of the best amongst them , to haue been such as no man hath reason to allow , it cannot choose but seeme strange , that any one ( carefull of what he vttereth ) should become a patron to that proceeding , which is no sooner barely rehearsed , but must vnto all men of necessitie , appeare to be without warrant . for iffailing in cmilitie of tearmes , their actions , had beene more milde ; or if ouer seene in their actions , their words had beene of a better temper ; some colorable snow might haue been their excuse , which now is wanting ▪ seeing they doe faile in both ; and therefore euen to discouer their proceedings is to ouerthrow thē . as few societies are or can be hoped to be without some euill , so the principall remedies in the iudgement of wise men haue been thought to be three . first that all things corrupted by time should with discretion be brought to their first institution . secōdly if this were not to be hoped for , they might vtterly be abolished . thirdly , that no innocatiōs were permitted to begin ; and being begun immediatly by the hand of authoritie , to be cut of . the first of these was called reformation ; which is a repetion or restitution of the auncient deede . so that to reform , is not to make new , but to restore to his former well being , what time and corruption by continuance had made euill . now as authoritie and wisedome are both requisite to performe this , so must it needs be a disorder in those that would reforme , and doe want both ; and it cannot bee but a great ouersight in them , who hauing thus erred ought to bee silent , and craue pardon , dare aduenture notwithstanding , to plead this cause , and to publish apologies in there owne defence . wee will not touch the first authors and originalles of this euill , being deriued from those , who then both for scituation and gouernment , were straungers to our state . but only make it appeare that since the beginning of our last soueriegnes reigne , what holinesses so euer was pretended , the whole proceeding in matters of reformation both in worde and deede , was altogether vnlawfull , and without warrant . a thing howsoeuer obserued by diuers heeretofore , yet not vnfit to be handled in this place , and at this time . the ground of that euill which followed was layd in queene maries time , in whose zealous gouernment ; ( a zeale in others of our countrie , from other forreigne places ) ( in both peraduenture a like euill ) sowed the vncleane seede of those immoderat growing tares , which since haue daungered our whole church . neither can the goodnesse of religion bee any warrant for euill doeing , seeing what is lawfull where true religion doth seeme to giue leaue , must of necessitie bee as lawfull being permitted by a religion , or don for a religion , though it be false . so that it was no more fit for priuat and inferiour persons at that time by violence to remoue idolatrie ( the contrarie whereof was their doctrine ) than in times much purer which haue since followed it was or could be lawfull for any of the church of rome , by inuasion or treason to establish the doctrine of that sea. this euer remaining a true rule , that good then deserueth the name of euill , when being good it ceaseth to bee well done , and no religion can warrant to pull downe kings when true religion doth commaund that whatsoeuer their religion is , wee must obay them , either in suffering with patience what they impose , or in dooing with obedience what they doe commaund . so that the iust hatred of idolatrie seruing to giue warrant to what they did then , in times when the church was much polluted , hath been not the least occasiō since , to attempt the like and farre worse , when by many degrees the times & the religion was more pure . and i am sorie so good a man by name , should publish to the world a doctrine so false and daungerous , that it should be lawfull to kill wicked kings and tyrants . neither had this ( being but the priuat error of one ) been in all respectes so daungerous , if an other , for his place a deane , ( and not meanely esteemed ) had in not his preface to that booke , affirmed it to be the doctrine of the best , and most learned in those partes : meaning ( as i thinke ) caluin and the rest . so that all thinges being duely weighed , the practise of those in that time for religion , was neither more honest , nor lawfull , than the late practises of those of the church of rome , neither let any man thinke that religion can be a warrant for that deed , which must remaine an euerlasting blemish to that religion , that caused it to bee doone . others our countrie had at that time men of famous and worthie memorie which liued in zuriech , bas●ll and franckefort ; these discretly obserued without innouation the reformation established in king edwardes dayes . nowe when those that had liued in geneua , and obserued with what policie caluin and others swayed the whole gouernment , ( a thing peraduenture neither much contradict seeing the worthinesse of the man , nor difficult to effect considering the forme of that state ) they began ( sayling in both repects ( being equal only in a violēt zeale ) to attempt the like discipline in their owne countrey . a thing so much the lesse sufferable , by how much the parties were meaner , the gouernment of their countrie farre better , and the alteration not safe in so great a kingdome . and yet at that time the zeale of these contented it selfe , little to meddle in shew , with the matters of disciplie , but rather was busied about the apparell of ministers , cerimonies prescribed and amendment ( as they thought ) of the communion booke . but after ( so hardly are those things limited which are but the workes of a strong fancie ) those that succeeded made their discipline , an essentiall note of the true church , & were as ready ( as they said ) to become martyrs in that quarell , as for the defence of any article of the christian faith ; of whom i may say ( as saint austine doth of some such ) they were martyrs if they had died , of a foolish philosophy . out of this strong and vehement perswasion of well doing , and from a desire of goodnes peraduenture in some ( although it is like that those who were most earnest had not the best conscience ; ) were published sundrie dialogues , able to haue iniured a good cause ; complaints , petitions to her maiestie and the parliament , in the name of the comunaltie ; their appellations , their exhortations , fiue or six seuerall supplications to the parliament ; martyns vnhallowed imitations of passauantius ; the humble motion to the lords of the councill ; and diuers other of the like nature , in manner of register collected into one volume . these , & many such ( for it were infinit and of small vse to reckon all ) were the chiefe , and the best meanes , their learning , wisedome , and holinesse , thought fit , for the gaining of authoritie to this new discipline , but if these immodest libelles , had beene the worst fruites of those times , and the art to speake euill , had extended it selfe no further , but to the infinite iniurie of the worthiest in this church , their error peraduenture might haue had pardon , and that which was indeed the malitious consultation of a number , would haue beene thought , to haue beene , but the madnesse of some fewe ; but after all this ( as either desiring themselues a sedition , or being misledde by some politicke atheist to be the actors of the churches ruine , ) they assemble in diuers places , they make lawes , despise authoritie , and leaue nothing that is violent vnatēpted . in the midst of all which , the happinesse of the church was this , that malice had not so much force as shee had endeuour . i am sorry that men endued with vnderstanding , and making religion to be the ground of what they did , could so farre deceiue themselues , and delude others , as to thinke a practise so disordered , so inconsiderat , so vnciuill , could possibly be allowed in an vnderstanding and well gouernd kingdome , only because it seemed to be masked with an idle shadowe of a pure zeale . now these proceedings that seeme to bee warranted by religion , are most easily spread abroade , because all men presume themselues to haue an interrest in religion , and they are for the most part more hotly pursued , than other strifes , for as much as coldnesse which in other contentions , may bee thought to proceede frō moderatiō , is not in this so fauorably cōstrued . this made them ( that if all other meanes fayled them ) they hoped to effect their desire by force of armes ; to this end they write that in this quarrell ( for reformation ) a hundred thousand hands would be gotten , and then ( say they ) you may easily think what stroke , so many would strike togither . doubtlesse there is nothing that could sauour of greater sedition , ( especially vnder so gratious a gouernment ) than being so violently addicted to their owne fancies , what they could not obtaine by any quieter meanes , rather than faile , to seeke to establish it , with th● hazard of so much bloud . nay all seditions almost and the open rebellions of all times , haue proceeded at first from this ground ; that what in the beginning was but weakly thought vpon , grew afterwardes to bee affected with more violence , and in the end rather than to fayle , to bee attempted by open warre . i confesse the part against whom wee striue , was a long while nothing feared , the wisest contented not to call to minde how errors haue their effects many times not proportioned to that little appearance of reason , wherupon they would seeme built ; but rather to vehement affection of fancie , which is cast towardes them , and proceedeth from other causes . and surely if a sparke of errour lightening in those dispositions , which in all mens thinking were farthest from any inclination vnto furious attemptes , was in all reason like to bee verie daungerous , must not the perill thereof bee farre greater , in men whose mindes are of themselues as drye fewell , apt before hand vnto the tumults ? for surely in a cause of religion men will strayne themselues vnto desperate aduentures , for the reliese of their owne part , though lawe and authoritie bee both against them . this then will bee a consideration of importance at this time , both for the king and the high court of parliament , ( when as it is like those humours will growe strong through confidence in their cause , and a hope of friendes ) how vnsafe in reason it must needes bee , to suffer the sparks to bee blowen that are almost quenched , or to hazard an established forme of church gouernment , by experience found profitable with much peace , in exchaunge with any newe imaginarie forme lesse warrantable in trueth , and in all reason lesse possible to stand , with the safety of the commonwealth . now that wee haue laid open some part of their proceeding for this discipline ; ( a poynt handled by vs sparingly and with great vnwillingnesse ) ( for hee that desireth to see more of their practises may read some bookes written alreadie to that ende ) wee will briefely examine whether any man ( and vpon what reason ) doth endeauour to iustifie the proceeding of the reformers in this kinde . the booke which wee censured in the former chapter , called the plea of the innocent , vndertaketh ( verie straungely in my opinion ) the defence of the proceeding in this whole cause . for although the author himselfe might haue assurance of his owne sinceritie , whereof i can not accuse him ( though some doo ) yet surely hee could not bee so ignoraunt of what had past , since the beginning of her late maiesties reigne , nor so charitable to excuse the maner of it , but that a defence of the whole storie might haue beene better spared than written at that time , and doubtlesse if all other meanes of opposition had fayled , their owne dealing was an ouerthrow sufficient to that cause . the first thing that hee misliketh is that they are called puritanes ; and in the clearing them from all effectation of this name , hee spendeth the whole chapter ; making other of his brethren that seemed to bee lesse religious , and the vniuersities ( places which in duetie hee ought to haue more honoured ) to bee the principall authours of this name , for to tearme them puritanes . but seeing the end of names is but to distinguish , and those who first vsed it amongst vs , did rather showe what their owne followers did esteeme of them , and what themselues affected , than what they were ; it cannot in reason bee an imputation to any , that they were tearmed by that name . neither doo i thinke ( although diuers of them did glorie to bee so tearmed ) that this name first proceeded from vs , but rather that the church of rome , seeing vs to reforme our selues to a purer religion than they professed , and that diuers amongest vs not content with that , desired yet to be more pure , accounting all of vs to bee heretikes , these by a speciall name , as affecting to seeme more holy than others , ( a common practise of the heretikes in olde time ) they tearmed by the name of puritanes ; so that the fault which hee layeth vpon vs , doubtlesse had his originall from those of the church of rome ; and therefore one rishton in a table dedicated to cardinall allen then gouernour of doway maketh puritanisme an heresie which began in the yeare 1563. neither do i thinke it can easily bee found that any protestant in england before that time , in any publike writing , vsed the name of puritan ; for no man can bee ignorant but that hee who was the strongest & first opposite to this new discipline , and handled this argument with greatest learning , was himselfe in all precisenes farre purer , than those that most gloried in that name ; and was neuer an aduersary to any of this cause , that was not eyther malitious , arrogant , or an hypocrite ; neyther is it fit to lay that distinction vpon the vniuersitie , of youthes and prescisians , ( as this pleader doth ) as though all that were not for this new reformation were like one athacius who bending himselfe by all meanes against the heresie of priscilian ( the hatred of which one euill was all the vertue he had ) became so wise in the end , that euery man carefull of vertuous conuersation , studious of scripture , and giuen vnto any abstinence in dyet , was set downe in his kalender of suspected priscillianistes . for whom it should bee expedient to approue their soundnes of faith , by a more licentious and loose behauiour ; neither do i thinke vnto a great number that desired this name , could any thing more fitly be applied than that vnto the cathari , a sect of heretikes , not cleane but worldlings ; or as epifa●i●s calleth them , pure impure ones . but surely if eyther the cathari , the nouatians , the pelagians , the donatists , or any sect of the papists at this day worthily deserue to be termed by the name of puritan , thē surely it is no great error to apply that name to a number amongst vs , who are euer readie to boast of their innocencie , and in respect of themselues , to account all of a contrary faction vnholy , and prophane . others this author accounteth old barrels . and yet if he had well remēbred what he saith in any other place ; that who so feareth an oath or is an ordinarie resorter to sermons earnest against excesse , ryot , popery , or any disorder , they are called in the vniuersity , prescisians , and in other places puritans . surely if this description of a puritan were true , neither were there much reproach in the name , nor would a great number be left out of that sect , who in all humility , religion and conscience , haue learned to submit themselues to the present states ; and i doubt not but verie truly a great nūber of the reuerend fathers of the church , might more fitly be called prescise , than those that for the earnest affectatiō of a new discipline , desire by their followers to bee called pure . for surely in all those things mētioned as notes to discerne a puritan , many that are very far from that peeuish singularity of some amongst vs , haue done the church more seuice in one yeare , and liued with greater sinceritie their whole life , than the principall of those who are distinguisht by that name ; is it not a straunge presumption to impropriat conscience , holines , innocency , and integrity onely to some few , as if all the rest who haue seuered themselues from the church of rome , were no better than athiests , time-seruers , prophane , and irreligious , only in this respect because by their authoritie and learning , they haue resisted this vnreasonable desire of a new disciplne ? so hardly doo 〈◊〉 temper our selues , when wee are strongly perswaded of our owne fancies , but that all that are contrarie or repugnant to vs , wee traduce thē to the world , as men without conscience , only for this that they are apposite . a practise which alone is able to discouer to the world , our exceeding pride , and intollerable selfe-loue ; for no man can doubt but the aduersaries to this cause haue exceeded the other , in all 〈◊〉 wherein they are or would seeme to bee most excellent ; onely they haue learned to obey , which is much better than all the sacrifice of fooles . but seeing words haue so many artificers , by whom they are made , and the things whereunto wee apply them , are fraught with so many varieties , it is not alwaies apparant what the first inuentours respected , much lesse what euerie mans inward conceit is , which vseth their words ; doubtlesse to distinguish things that are of a different condition , is the most ordinarie , and the safest vse of names , seeing necessarily to collect what things are , from names by which they are called , can haue small warrant , these being but effectes oftentimes of malice , sometimes of ignorance , mistaking sometimes of some particular accident ; all which serue but in the construction of wisemen , to make their estimation by a better rule ; and where things are not in nature such , not to condemne them , though they called by euill names . the name of puritan or prescisian no man hath reason to vse it as a disgrace , seeing with vs it serueth , but to signifie such , as being more strict for obseruation of ceremonies , than others ( both parties being opposite in that ) they both notwithstanding may bee equally distant from the church of rome , and therefore as i cannot excuse such , as prophanely make it any imputation to bee prescise , ( a duetie which surely ought to bee performed by vs all in a stricter maner ) so neyther doo i thinke the proceeding of those to bee altogether lawfull , who vnder this name hauing shrowded themselues , account all men besides , to bee prophane atheistes , and the resistance which they finde in their violent course , to bee a cruell persecutor of innocent men in a good cause . they that teach the world to thinke and to speake thus , must needes bee iudged both to slaunder the profession of the gospell amongest vs , and to make themselues the best part of that church which is seuered from the customes of the church of rome . but lest peraduenture none of them eyther mislike the name , or make the original of their sufferings to bee their innocency , let vs heare one of them plead for the rest , men which made consceince of many things , which the reuereud fathers and many learned men affirmed to bee lawfull , and for this they were called puritans ; there is no man can think , but in matters of this nature , the iudgement of the reuerend fathers , and many other learned men that were not bishops , might haue ouerswayed the stifnesse of some few ( for so they were at the first ) without inforcing any faction or breach of the churches vnion ; this phrase is vsuall in that booke ( the goodnes of our cause ) and the innocency of our persons , god deliuered his innocent seruants ; and being reproued for their proceeding , their aunswere is , the innocency of our cause doth constrayne vs , and that the world may knowe the reason of their sufferings , they say the chiefest cause of their trouble and reproach , is their carefull and zealous following of gods holy word , and their tender conscience in offending god. would not a man thinke that the church of england which hath seuered it selfe not without many daungers from the church of rome , had looked backe and become a harlot and a bloody kingdome ? surely there cannot be a greater blemish laid vpon this church ( which both is , and is desirous to be thought reformed ) than that it hath persecuted for their conscience , men holy , religious , innocent , and it a good cause . the whole tenor of that plea of the innocent runneth on in this course as if it were the sighes and mournings of a church vpright and pure , labouring vnder the burthen of persecution , because they cannot in conscience yeelde vnto superstition as others doo ; from hence are these speeches . they seeing our innocencie that of mere conscience our vprightnesse makes vs poore innocent men . and in an other place to the same purpose . we can boldely and in the sight of god protest our innocency , wee and our honest and iust cause . it is now at the least three and thirty yeares since our troubles began to be beauie vpon vs , let them shew how wee haue moued our finger against our dread souereigne , and in defence of all those who haue laboured in this cause he is not affraid to say : was not all our doings by humble supplications , honest and christian apologeticall writings , and by lowly and earnest suing by our friendes ? and further : in this wee haue done no otherwis●●han all christian ministers may and ought to doe . and if any man maruell how the bishops became their enemies he aunswereth ; bishops were our enemies by the papists meanes . could any man imagine that either so much without cause against the bishops , or so many things without truth for thēselues , could haue beene vttered , if an opinion peraduenture of that wherein thēselues were innocent , did not carrie them with ouermuch charitie , both to thinke all which was against them to be too vehement & too much , and all for them ouer modest and too little . can it be thought that the author of the plea of the innocent , should be perswaded that the papists had made any of the bishops to be their enemies ? or that those libels which past vnder the name of admonitions , supplicatiōs , demonstrations , martin , dialogues and such like should by any indifferent reader be thought to be either hūble , honest , or christian ? or that they had done nothing in this cause more than all christian ministers may , & ought to haue done ? no surely ; the christian part of the world to whom our vnnaturall , violent , and vnholy contentions haue cōmen , are able to witnes too wel that he who hath brought a willingnes to speake euill , and hath performed it ( in howe vnseemly a manner soeuer ) hath beene thought by the patrons of that cause , to haue merited sufficiently the name of a brother , and to haue beene a deserued partner of their liberall contribution ; this to many yong men hath beene a daungerous temptation ( i meane those of the meanest sort , ) who in themselues naturally haue a double aduātage to giue strength to this daungerous weakenes , the one a disposition to reproue wherein their owne innocency is thought greatest when they dare in vnseemely tearmes take vpon them to controule others ; the other a hastie desire to seeme of some account , which , in an ordinary course without great labour is not easily attained , where as euil speaking and vnseasonable raylings ( commonly called zealous preaching ) bringeth them ( at least among their partiall followers ) into an opinion of learning , innocency ; and purified zeale ; but let these men vnderstand , that where readers are of indifferen●y ( as some times their bookes fall into the hands of such ) ( though for the most part they are dispersed amōgst the breathren of the cause ) they gaine this iust censure ; that that cause cannot be good which hath not other patrons to support it , than those who haue learned nothing , but only to speake euill . i am sorie the inferiour sort of our clergie , are both so ignorant themselues , and haue possessed their auditors with the same error , that we may not allow any thing vsed in the church of rome , no more than any thing vsed in any assembly of the heathen whatsoeuer ; so that whilst ouer bitterly we distast euerie thing , which is in vse in that church ( whose greatest part is infected with much error ) we breed an opiniō in those who are not fully resolued , that we rather mislike many things because they vse them , than for that we are able to giue a reason why we doe mislike them . the best course in this had beene first to haue made demonstration that the same things being vsed by diuers are all one ; or that those things contēded for by authority in our church , were not in the better and former times of the church or are not of an indefferent nature , neither can be made lawfull by any circūstance . these things being neglected and other meanes vsed , lesse reasonable , and lesse honest , we conclude that the proceeding of the reformers hetherto , hath beene altogether vnlawfull and without warrant . chap. v. of contentions . there was neuer any thing more fatal to the prosperitie of gods church thā the violēt nourishing of contentiō within her bowells , and especially by their meanes , who ought to haue been the principall authors to procure her peace ; for where euery man is violent for that which himselfe likes ; and partiall affection through stronge humors becommeth the best reason to plant a religion , ( a falt most vsuall in those kingdomes that are most vertuous ) euery man becommeth so great an opposite , that in the ende they are in hazard to be depriued of all truth ; there is nothing safer to a kingdome than that the religion professed be but only one , and this safetie then shall bee accompanied with much honor , when those of the same religion , are desirous and carefull to preserue the vnitie of the spirit in the bond of peace ; otherwise it must needes come to passe that those small and first beginnings which receiued life and increase from an holy vnion , must in the end by discord and discention , al perish . and therefore not vnwisely the cities of greece receiued of their citizens , no other oath sauing only this , to preserue vnion ; that satan hath had apt instruments to hinder this in all ages , those scarres in the church which are not yet throughly cured , shall witnes well to the ages that succeed after ; and the hatefull note of reproch shall remaine as a blemmish vnto their names , who rather than they would yeeld , haue been contēt in the midst of these flames , that the church perish ; this being the blessing annexed to the cōmandement of the holy prophet ; pray for the peace of hierusalem , they shall prosper that loue thee ; as though the happines of prosperitie could not light vpon their heads , whose tongues haue been the principall actors of contentiō in gods church ; this being an euil by so much the lesse cureable , by how much the oppositions for religiō be more violent . this made the apostle to frame that most eloquēt exhortation to humilitie and peace ; if there be any consolation in christ , if any comfort of loue , if any fellowshippe of the spirit , if any compassion and mercy , fulfill my ioy that yee be like minded , hauing the same loue , being of one accord , and of iudgement , that nothing be done through contention , or vaine glorie . this being the meanes to attaine vnto this perfection , if in meekenesse of minde , euery man esteeme better of others than of himselfe , for saith the wise man , as the cole maketh burning coles , and woode a fier ; so the contentious man is apt to kindle strife . in the case of the church , wee ought to haue remembred long since , the great reason of that attonement betwixt lott and abraham ; wee are breathren ; vnlesse they in discreatiō of some few haue caried them so farre that they can hardly afforde those to be tearmed by that name , who because their iudgements and wisedome are farre greater , their religion and zeale is thought to bee farre lesse . but we will hope much better of these men , than that sufferance hath made them proud . and their pride more contentious , than heretofore ; and therefore me thinkes it is most straung that any man should haue so little vnderstanding , as one of them hath , who make vs beleeue that the countenaunce of the bishops , were more estraunged from them now than euer before ; for doubtlesse if the great moderation of those persons ▪ whom our late souereigne of blessed memorie thought fit to be aduansed to that place to be called bishoppes , had not with more than fatherly care , ●estrained it selfe in compassion towards them , from seuere execution of iust lawes , their occasions of complaint peraduenture would haue beene farre greater , ( though not more reasonable ) but surely the vnitie of the church had beene much more ; there is nothing so daungerous as lenitie in that case , where patience giueth occation for insolent contention , to be more proud ; a thing as vnsufferable in it owne nature at all times , so then especially most destitute of all excuse , when inferiour persons are aptest to prouoke , and the things in question in their owne iudgment , are of no great momēt : as those then haue don euill offices , who haue renued the memorie of almost outworne errors , so are they lesse tollerable in this , that hauing poysoned the world with so euill opinions , they seeme notwithstanding earnestly , and humbly , desirous to liue in peace ; assuring themselues that what difference soeuer prosperitie breedes , doubtlesse persecution would make vs to be all one ; but euer reseruing this priuiledge to themselues , that the bishops in submission ( as offendours ) must first yeeld . but if a man rightly consider the originall of this sinne of contention and what affections they are which giue strength vnto it , hee can hardely in reason expect quietnesse to be found in the patrons of this cause ; pride , enuie , and vaine glorie are the originall fountaies of this euill ; for where inferiour persons both for place and iudgment , haue ouerualued their owne fancies by their owne conceit , it is no more like that in humilitie they should once yeeld , thā it is possible for obedient humilitie , to become proude . the distance being equall in both , only in this the disaduantage greater , that wee haue all of vs an aptnesse to doe euill , but without grace , no possible meanes in our selues to become good . hereunto if we add the second , that as out of pride we loue our selues , so out of enuie wee hate others , no man can maruell if men that are proude , vaine glorious , and enuious , easely also bee founde contentious ; for that which in different opinions maketh conten●i●●s to cease , is when men are perswaded of their betters , that they are not easily deceiued , and of themselues , that they may , and doe easely erre ; but all contentions are not of the same nature ; for some neede no excuse when we resist as we are bound for the defence of a good cause ; for other a small excuse may serue , in that being without order yet they are not scandalous ; but that which is common with these men , is highly sinfull , without all colourable show of excuse , when they are more vnreuerently bitter than is beseeming the grauitie of the persons with whom they striue , and more vehement than is aunswerable to the cause that they would defend . for the seruant of the lord must not striue , but must be gentle towards all men , apt to teach , suffering the euill men patiently ; so that if any man had these defects that were an aduersarie in this cause , we must instruct them with meekenesse , that are contrarie minded , proouing if at any time god will giue them repentance , that they may knowe the truth ; if any man teach otherwise hee is puft vp , and knoweth nothing , but doteth about questions , and striffe of words , whereof commeth enuy , strife , raylings , euill surmisings , all which are to no profit , but to peruert the hearers . and surely as the apostle telleth vs where enuie and strifes is , there is sedition and all manner of euill workes . but if after so much patience , so many fould , cleare , and modest defences of a iust cause , any man lust to be contentious , we haue noe such custome , neither the churches of god. thus coutention through the corruption of our nature being seldome limited , in the end becommeth inordinate , and a foule sinne ; and so consequently without warrant , when either we contend about that which is so true , or so trifling , that we ought not , or whether we contend in that maner that doth not become vs , or in that place ; or last of all with those persons that are vnbefitting . the error in the first is that of the disciples which should be the greatest , which exāple saith beda is willingly reade of many that desire f●ō the scripture to find● example to warrant them to the like cōtention , but saith s. ambrose if the apostles contend it is not made a pretence of excuse for vs , but set downe for a caueat . in the second the fault in those clamorous , rayling , and vuciuill speaches by aduersaries of all sides ; wherein if some in our church had not beene too forward to aunswere their aduersaries in the same kind , the best causes had beene handled with better praise , and the worst had beene performed with lesse blame ; hence commeth it that hee who for learning hath not deserued least , for the defence of our church , for modestie of writing ( onely excepted ) hath deserued best . the place and the persons are ordinary circumstances to make our contentions to bee more faultie ; but seldome ( though the scholeman say otherwise ) doe i finde any reason for men of the church for to warant either ▪ for̄whereas there is amongst vs enuying , & strife , and diuisions , are we not carnall and walke as men ? for saith salomon , it is a mans honor to cease from strife , but euerie foole will be medling . and doubtlesse if in this cause of the church gouernment , many whose conditions and learning might iustly haue inioyned them silence , had not beene medling , moderation with grauitie might haue determined that cause , which stoode only supported with a hott zeale ; and seeing the best warrant of our actions must be the sincere testimonie of our conscience from a true feare , i wonder how some inferiour and meane men ; could thinke it lawfull for them to vndertake a matter of that moment , ( nay to receiue it being almost deade ) when men of farre greater learning , and dwiseome did remaine silent ; some excuse peraduenture i could allowe him , if others farre more worthie had not had as much zeale , and had not beene as farre better able to defend the cause ; but it may be he taketh his labour to be well imployed , hauing made in his opinion for the good of the church , a benifit of that small talent , which god hath giuen him . other ends ( for which the world hath censured him hardly ) i dare not acc●●● him of , for a who am i that i should condemne an o●her mans seruant ? he standeth or falleth to his owne master ▪ and yet as that morall wise man saith , b it little skillet● with what minde that is d●●● , which is euill done ; because th●●●ede is seene , but the minde is not . c it is no praise not to doe th●●●●ich thou canst not . and if the best excuse bee allowed both to him and others , which can be afforded in so euill a cause , wee must needes say ; that centention in the church , is the hurtfull effect of indiscrete zeale . and howsoeuer men bouldly apply that to themselues , which was spoken by our sauiour christ. the zeale of thine house hath euen eaten mee ; yet they little consider that with this zeale of gods honor , which eateth them , they haue no warrant that gods house should be eaten by them ; true zeale saith s. austine desireth in his place to amend what is a misse , but if he cannot , he doth tollerate it , and sigh ; for there is a zeale that proceedeth from rancor and malice , but not from loue . extraordinarie zeale which exceedeth the limits of our priuate calling , is then only no sinne , when it proceedeth from the power of the spirit , and not a priuate motion ; the same spirit warranting that zeale by giuing an extraordinarie power , as also an vnresistable strength ; all which were found in our sauiour , in the sonne of eleazer , in the sonnes of leuie , in elias ; and diuers others . and if the pleader hath performed any thing either more powerfully or more effectually than other men , we are readie to confesse that this newe contention arose from a holy zeale ; but under this colour , daungerous attempts haue beene committed in gods church . thus anabaptist in germanie cut off his brothers head in the sight of his parents , perswading them that the holy ghost was the author of that fact ; but because he could not make the magistrate to beleuee so much , hee himselfe by their sentence indured the same death . and it were fitt all these zealous murderers of their bretheren by their hot contentions , were examined by the magistrate of their lawfull calling , for it is great pitie that religion and zeale ( and sometimes peraduenture a good cause , all which are most innocent ) should suffer the reproach of a shamefull act ; but such zealous persons haue beene in all ages who vnder pretense to reforme religion haue been the worst mē and the greatest enemies that religion had , when claudins & nero gouerned , there were some that called themselues ( zealatours ) and vnder that name were earnest for religion , vntil thēselues had brought fier to consume the temple for which they stroue ; and surely if humane reason haue leaue to coniecture what is like to be the euent of these euils , atheisme , propanenes and sacrilege , must al enter at the dore of contention , to burnvp religion , & to robbe the church . and howsoeuer peace be best built vpō redēptiō of wrongs , for otherwise to make an vnitie without repeting the causes of discord is but rather to please vs with the name , than with equitie to compound the wrongs ; wherein if we had beene the first ( yet it may appeare , that we are not willing to vrge the authors of these contentions too farre ) in giuing a beginning to his euill , surely their fault must needes be the greater which will not suffer it to haue an ende ; alter principium malo dedit , alter modum abstulit ; neither can we excuse the bitternesse of some whose paines were little required to haue laboured in this cause as the former in the impure cōtentions of martinisme defaced the gouernment of the church in the persons of bishops and prelates , so the other sort did lead into contēpt , the exercises of religion in the persons of sundrie preachers , disgracing ( as one well noteth ) the higher matter though in the meaner person ; we can be cōtent to thinke that in many the beginning of these euils was a detestation which they had to the church of rome . but we wish such men to know , that first they haue iniured greatly the church of christ by hindering that increase which religion in this land might haue had , if these violently had not beene ouer willing to contend with all men ; and then that as there is nothing of more vse , so nothing in respect can be of greater daunger in religiō thā zeale is ; for this if it be directed aright , is mother of much ●olines , but being mislead , is the adulterous stepmother of much hypocrisie ; and doub●lesse the corrupt fountaine of the greatest and most daungerous contentions that haue troubled this church , ha●● bin the faise opinion of vndiscret zeale , and when our contentions growe strong they spoyle ( saith solo●●● ) a house full of facrifices ; and lest they should thinke wee are willing and esteeme it an honor to contend with them , we say we haue taught the truth , the auncient and perpetuall gouernment of the church , we haue maintained the reformed discipline , by the example of the first and best churches after the time of persecution ; we teach nothing but the pure gospell of christ ; wee administer the sacraments as wee ought ; we are and haue learned to bee obedient to those that rule ouer vs ; we wish and prouide that the ministerie of england may be learned , that men may be diligent in that honorable fruction committed to them , that all idolatrie and superstition may be banished , in one word that the church may be cured from all their infirmities by the hand of authoritie , and those lawfull meanes prouided for her safetie ; that noe rayling and contentious speeches to the disgrace of any mans person may be vsed by vs ; and if any man teach otherwise and consenteth not to the wholsome words of the lord iesus christ , and to the doctrine which is according to godlinesse , hee is puft vp and knoweth nothing , but doateth about questions & strife of words whereof commeth enuy , strife , raylings , euill surmisinges , froward disputation of men of corrupt minds , and destitute of the truth , which thinke that gaine is godlines ; for doubtlesse the wrath of man doth not accomplish the righteousnesse god ; for where enuy and strife is there is sedition and all manner of euill workes , but wisedome that is from aboue is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , easie to bee entreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without iudging , and without hypocrisie ; and the fruit of righteousnesse is sowne i● peace , of them that can make peace . wee therefore beseech you breathren by the mercies of christ , let vs be all of one minde , let vs seeke peace and ensue it , let there be noe strife i pray you betwext you & vs neither betwext your beardmē nor our beard-men , for we are breatheren . but if they will needes proceede in this intemperat manner , to nourrish the flame of these vnhallowed contentions , which both strengthen the aduersaries , and weaken our selues ; we can but wish that authoritie may cause their writings to bee abortiue and not see the sunne ; but if their policies in this doo preuent lawes , our next desire is , they may bee censured by all that haue vnderstanding and conscience , as the intemperate and extrauagant conceits of some giddie headed persons , and that men beware ( except they meane to aduenture to depriue themselues of all sence of religion , and to paue their owne hearts , and make them like the high way ) how they bee consuersant in them , and giue credit or beliefe vnto them . therefore to conclude this poynt , seeing contentions are of that daunger , and that zeale is no warrant to ouerthrow the church , let vs all follow the counsa●le which the angel gaue vnto agar , returne vnto thy dame , and humble thy selfe vnder her hands . there is no vertue that better beseemeth vs that are inferiors , than patience and humilitie . therefore we exhort with the apostles . but god be thanked , that ye haue beene the seruants of sinne , but ye haue obeyed from the heart vnto the forme of the doctrine , whereunto ye were deliuered . being then made free from sinne , ye are made the seruants of righteousnesse . let vs not bee desirous of vaine glory , prouoking one another , enuying one another . for where enuying and strife is , there is sedition , and all maner of euill workes . but the wisedome that is from aboue , is first pure , then peaceable , gentle ; easie to bee intreated , full of mercie and good fruits , without iudging , and without hypocrisie . and the fruite of righteousnesse is sowen in peace , of them that make peace . chap. vi. of ceremonies . where men are apt to mislike things of necessarie vse , the entrance for the most part into that contempt is through the distasting of those things which are of a meaner nature , and serue but in the opinion of wise men onely to make the act of deuotion to be more solemne ; solemnitie in some measure being a necessarie adiunct to all publike seruice . and whilst it stirreth men with greater holinesse to become outwardly religious , whilst it stayeth men from wauering in that they do , and others from contempt of that which is done ( all being by these outward solēnities better prepared ) we cannot but account them the hedge of deuotion , and though not the principall points , yet as some of the fathers call them the second intentions of the law ; intermeditate meanes not to be despised of a better and more religious seruice . this whilst some in our church haue either not vnderstood , or not much regarded , they haue earnestly laboured ( as for a matter of great moment ) that because the iews had a religiō ful of ceremonies , the most part whereof being types are in their particular so far ceased ; & be●●use the church of rome hath not limited the infinit burden , in this kind ; partly idle , partly needles , & the greatest part through the corruption of ●lme , being growen superstitious ; these in opposition to all the rest , onely misunderstanding the time of grace , are desirous to haue religion , without any ceremonies at all . as if the same god who seeing the weakenesse of his owne people , and therefore ledd them as if it were by ceremonies to that worship which was fittest for them , and for that time ; and who euer since hath beene the author , and approouer of solemne order , especially in the publike action of religion , did now eyther see vs to bee so absolute , as that these outward helpes were of no vse , or that all ceremonies were but shadowes of things to come , not ornaments and helpes to things present , did meerely with the passion of his sonne , cancell all kinde of worship that had any solemnities or ceremonies ( how vertuous soeuer ) annexed to it . but as to think that ceremonies without true and inward holinesse , could cleanse them from their sinne were to erre , and to be iewish and superstitious , so to account them of no vse , were to be meerely prophane . wee call them ceremonies , properly all such thinges as are the externall act of religion , which haue their commendation and alowance , from no other cause but onely that in gods worship they are vertuous furtherances of his honour . for religion which is the height and perfection of all morall vertues , conteyneth in it three actes as all other vertues doo ; the first the internall , which is the willing desire to giue vnto god his due worship and honour ; secondly , the externall , aunswering to this , which is no otherwise good , or commendable than that it vertuously serueth to this end ; thirdly , the commaunded act , that is the act of euery vertue ordained by religion to gods honour ; so fasting , almes , and such like are tearmed the actes of religion , when they are done for gods worship , howsoeuer othe●●ise they are properly the actes of other vertues . this the apostle calleth pure religion and vndfiled bofore 〈◊〉 the father , to visit the fatherlesse , and widowes , in their ad●●rsity , and to keepe himselfe vnspotted of the world . saint austine saith that god is worshipped with faith , hope , and charity , of these three the first is no way ceremoniall , the third likewise is no ceremonie , but as it is an act inioyned by religion ; but the second is properly that which concerneth the ceremoniall part of gods worship . all antiquitie was euer so farre from misliking of those , that they had almost placed religion in them onely . the name which the hebrewes gaue vnto ceremonies signifieth not so much the externall act , as the law and the precept by which is was commaunded ; so that in the new testament euen those which had no longer continuāce but vntill iohn , ( for then began the iewish ceremonies to decline ) are tearmed by our sauiour by the name of the law and the prophets . saint paule calleth them iustifications , because they were rites instituted & ordayned to that end . with them they were the images of heauenly things opposite to the images of the heathen ; & howsoeuer we follow neither of them in the particular , the one being the idolatrous prophanation of an heathenish superstition , the other but the externall seruice appropriate to that people , and to that time : yet wee dare not , seeing no religion can want all ceremonies , fall so headlong to the error on eyther side , as to embrace or refuse , all those ceremonies that the church hath . now as it is the vnhappinesse of religion to bee ouerloaden with ceremonies , so in those that haue authoritie , not to establish by law such as are needefull , is a defect ; to neglect them in those that ought to bee obedient , is a fault ; but to contemne them in any that liue in the bosome of the same church , must needs bee the manifest argument of their pride , and in the end the vtter ruine of religion it selfe . for in the ceremonies of the law , there were three things to bee obserued ; first , that they were all ordayned for the expressing of the inward and morall worship , to serue to true holinesse , fayth , hope , and charity , without which all the rest were reiected ( euen as a burthen ) by him that commaunded them ; saying , i will haue mercy but not sacrifice : for obedience is better than sacrifice , and to hearken is better than the fat of rammes . secondly , if ceremonies be contrarie to true holines , they were to be omitted , ( for their end was to further deuotion , not to hinder it ) in this respect they were dispensable , when eyther by the place or time , ( two violent circumstances of all our actions ) or for some impediments they could not well be reserued ; in this respect circumcision was omitted for those that were borne in the desart , as being vnfit to moue immediatly after that wound , and being vncertaine to rest , seeing they must follow the fire , or the cloud when they moued . thus in persecution we are content rather to exercise religion without ceremonies , than to want it ▪ which in peace to neglect , or contemne , must needs be a great offence . those times being fittest to serue god with greater reuerence and holier solemnities , which are compassed about with greater rest and more happie blessings . lastly , when ceremonies are requisite to testifie our faith ; ( as doubtlesse they are then when they are through misunderstanding oppugned ) wee may not in conscience remit any part of them ; for the refu●ing of such , can be no small sin , where the vsing is blessed with the crowne of martyrdom . but seeing as some thinke , frō the particular deuotiō of the town cere , or as others frō wanting ( being a religious restraint ) they are called ceremonies , we need not to doubt in the beginning , eyther that vertuous office which they did , or those religious abstinences which they performed , ioyned religion & ceremonies with that nearnesse , as that neither was absolutely perfect , where both were not . this vnkinde separation , ( one of the sower fruits that haue growen in this latter age ) is a great wound giuen vnto religion , doubtlesse in many ( for i will not excuse all ) only frō the abundance of too much loue . al ceremonies may be deuided thus . some were for iustifications such as the law commāded , whereby the obseruer was made more purified , and more holy . in place whereof afterward succeeded those that were for ornament and to signifie such vertues as were requisite in those parties that rightly vse them . secondly , in respect of the author , some were the ordinances of nature , as to looke vp to heauen , to lift vp the hands , to bow the knees , to knocke the breast , and such like when wee pray , things vsed in their deuotion by the heathen themselues , others were appointed by god himselfe , some by the apostles , and the bishops , that succeed in her place ; thirdly , some are parts of the immediate worship , as sacrifice , prayer , adoration , and such like , some onely dispose , as fasting , austere liuing , some are onely instruments , as churches , altars , chalises , and all those , which religiously being separated , serue onely to make the deuotion more solemne , and that solemnitie to be more holy . fourthly , of these , some respect persons , sometimes , some other concerne places , all which concurring in a diuine worship are with ceremonies by separation made sacred , and so fitter to serue vnto holy vses . lastly , some are particular , some more general & vninersal , as the fa●●ing vpō the sabbath in s. austins time was obserued at rome but not at millan ; as also the washing of feet after baptisme , was obserued at millane but not at rome ; in all which saith the same father there is no discipline can be better , than in these to follow the custom of the place wherunto we come . this coūsaile gaue saint ambrose to saint austen , that none might offend him , nor he might offend any . a graue moderation , which doubtlesse if it were found in all , which desire to bee examples to others of a better life , the showes of religion could not haue wanted so much deuotion , nor the sinewes of the church , could haue beene racked with so little pittie . for in this kinde , the same persons may in contrarie places performe contrarie things , & both well . as zachaeus receiue christ into his house with ioy , and the centurion with as much prayse say , lord i am not worthy that thou shouldest enter into my house ; both honouring their sauiour by a diuers maner , both miserable in their sinnes , and both obteyning mercy . for in alterations of custome , that which may helpe peraduenture with the profit of it , doubtlesse with the noueltie of change will do more hurt . the best remembrance in this ca●e wil be this , that the end of the commandemēt is loue out of a pure hart & a good consciēce & of faith vnfeigned ; frō the which things some haue erred , & haue turned vnto vain iangling ; they would be doctors of the law , & yet vnderstand not what they speak 〈◊〉 wh●r●f th●y affirme . for loue is the fulfilling of the 〈…〉 therefore whosoeuer thou art saith s. austen , that readest either this , or any other , so read and so learn that thou thinke this to be truly spoken , knowledge puffeth vp , but charity buildeth : this suffereth long , it is bountifull , enuieth not , doth not boast it selfe , is not puffed vp ; for preseruatiō of vnitie , being that whereunto in this kinde all must ayme , it is fittest for those who finde ceremonies in vse not vnlawfull in any church , rather to obserue them keeping the vnitie of the spirit in the bonde of peace , than with the hazard of scisme , to striue to annihilate these , and to establish those that are much better . for in the vse of ceremonies at this day our church doth not so farre differ from the endes of the first institution of them , that though her reasons be not the same , yet shee retaineth nothing , that in substance & truth , is directly opposite . the first end of the iewish ceremonies , was that by them as by certaine elements the people might be retained in the seruice of god , as a childe vnder the gouernment and discipline of his father ; for where men are not restained within some bounds & limits for external worship , discentions through affectation of singularitie , serue as wel by a general contempt to make men prophane , as continuall new and vnlimited additions of ceremonies doe make them superstitious . those rites then to them ( and ●o in proportion to vs ) serued as sinewes to hold all and euery seuerall member of the church , in religious inuocation and worship of the true god. a second end was , that they might haue a worshipp , neither outwardly ouer naked , nor apparelled like that which the gētiles had ; a reason doubtlesse to vs , not lesse forcible than to them , who haue in our eye neere at hand , such as are richly attired in this kinde , with whom we shall ouer easily fall in loue , and dislik our own seruice of god , if we haue not some external ceremonies , which we are able to defende both to be as fit for gods seruice , as naturall and comely warranted by gods word , and seruing as wel to that end , namely his worship as all the ceremonies either of heathens , the iewes , or the church of ro●● doe . and surely whilst some honest mindes , for profitable ends haue laboured to vnburthen the church of many ceremonies , they haue done nothing els , but vntyle the house , that the rafters the beames & the maine timber might with the violence of tempests more speedily perish . the third end was , to make knowne vnto men by an externall worship , that holinesse which in hart they professed vnto him ; that man hauing two parts , and he the author of both , it might not be his fault , to be defectiue in either of them . yet as wholy to depend vpon outward ceremonies is but hypocrisie , so altogether to neglect them vnder pretence to worshippe him in spirit , is but to sinne with more libertie vnpunished , and vncontrouled . lastly , the comlinesse of order , and the preseruation of humane societie , are not the contemptiblest ends for the vse of ceremonies . for seeing order is the ornament of all societies , and seeing the church , of all societies is most excellent , it must needes follow , that those things which ( ciuilie done ) doe adorne others , vnciuilly neglected , or continued , doe disgrace the church . and i am sorrie that in the earnest contention for church gouernment men are so backeward in the allowance of church ceremonies , seeing wise men of found iudgment , haue made them a part of the church discipline . yet ceremonies are not all of like nature , some being absolutely necessarie and common to all , others not so necessary , and to some ; it is fitte that for all men in the furtherance of gods worshippe , there should bee a sanctification of persons , times and places , which if either they were not done at all , or done without ceremonie , the corruption of mans nature would easily esteeme them to be vnholy . for although god be to be worshipped at all times , and that as christ saith , the kingdome of heauen commeth not by obseruation either of time or place ; yet because whole churches must assemble , which cannot be done without these , nor these rightly be thus seuered without ceremonies , all antiquitie hath allowed the distinction of these , and the vse of sober and moderate ceremonies in the separation of them ; that being rightly to be tearmed religious , which for the holines we leaue to imploy vnto common vses . and howsoeuer it may be not altogether vnfit , ( at least it ought not to be offensiue ) that churches , though all reformed are in this different ( for so in the obseruation of easter the east and the weast were diuers africa and italie rome and millaine ) in which our rule must be with humilitie and loue , to be all things to all , yet it is many waies conuenient , to haue an vnitie if it were possible , of ceremonies for the whole church . first , that all may abstaine from that worshippe which is heathenish ; secondly , not to inuent a peculiar worship of our owne , a thing neither safe to be done , nor easily without better directions to be left vndone . thirdly , to remoue offence , for weakenesse not able to discerne , that the meanes often are diuers where the end is but one , from the differing in ceremonies , haue thought a contrarietie and difference to be in religion it selfe . lastly , to let vs know that god will be worshipped externally , and with order ; this being the best witnesse , and nourishing of that worshipp which is within . and doublesse the ceremoniall worship in generall is from the lawe of nature , although some specials doe proceede from the lawe positiue ; so that both respecting the vse , which is manifolde , & the practise both before the lawe , vnder the law , and since , ( for the church of god vpon earth did neuer want ceremonies ) it must needes seeme strange that the peeuishnesse of some few , and they none of the greatest vnderstanding , should preuaile so far , that things of more necessarie vse ( as the word of sacraments ) should be amongst the people distasted , only for the obseruation of some few ceremonies , and yet these neither many , nor the fancies of priuate men ; as if the obedience of inferiours with humilitie in this case , were like the sinne of the sonnes of elie , for which men abhorred the offerings of the lord. all men confesse that the ceremonies of the iewes , ( prefiguring ) are to be remoued , but not those in the church which established by authoritie , serue onely for order , and the better worship . yet all men of sound iudgment must needs graunt , that for their vertue , they are all inferior to the word and the sacraments ; & for their number , they ought to be so limited , that with their vnseasonable multitude , they ouerwhelme not that worshippe , which with their order and comlinesse they ought to further . for as husbandmen are content the branches of the vine so long to growe , and spread , vntill thereby they procure the grapes to become fewer ; so in the church the admission and retaining of ceremonies are so farre lawfull , vntill by their error and defect , either in substance or number , religion and deuotion become colder . and if the opinion of them , who hold the church may ordaine ceremonies for instructions , ornament , and order , had extended it selfe likewise to account them , a bond of diuine worshipp ( so farre as positiue lawes may serue to increase deuotion ) their assertion doubtlesse had beene much sounder , and the people had excercised religion with greater holinesse , and more peace ; but in this we haue dealt ( as in our religious seruice ) where few things can be rightly ordered that are carried with a doubtfull and headlong course . the originall of this euill , is as a wise man noteth ; that wee haue numbred the opinions of others , but not weighed them ; a sweete error seruing but to make vs to loue that , wherein , at length wee must needs perish . but if any man thinke ( as surely it is the opinion of some ) that those ceremonies ordained by christ or his apostles , are fit inought to be retained in the church , but the rest as being made without warrant haue no warrant to remaine still , we answere that of all which christiā churches ( how much soeuer corrupted doe , or shal vse ) there is by vs noe defence vndertaken for them ; yet wee doubt not that euery particular church , may & our church hath , lawfully ordained some ceremonies , which ought religiously to be obserued , & more also if the church so thought fit ; not hereby to iustifie any & to make him righteous , but for ends that are spiritual , and many waies behouefull to gods worship . first for ornamēt , a thing which i wōder in al other cases should be accounted a vertue , & in religion only should be esteemed a vice . herein whilst we haue shūned iustly , the glorious vanity of superstitious worship , we haue familiarly fallen to despise the persons , the place , the times , and almost that dutie , which we would honor ; and all onely through the neglect of some due ceremonies . secondly , to stirr vp deuotiō , a thing apt inough through our vanities to become small , vnlesse some externall helps may be added for to make it greater . neither can the accesse of coremonie in the consecration of new times , or new places , be otherwise vnderstood , than the faithfull acknowledgment of special new , & extraordinary fauours , that we haue receiued . neither ought the memorie of the resurrection so to swallow vp , in vnthankesfulnesse all other benefits of a lesser nature , as if the obseruation of other times were to be accounted an vnhallowed prophanatiō of the lords sabbath . and surely those rites , which before lawfull ordination were left free , after , in conscience doe binde to the obseruation of thē . so that what priuate opinions may fancie vnto them selues , are but slender exemptions for the breach of lawes ; these imposing a restraint with their due ceremonies established by authoritie from vsing respects , and behauiours that are common , towarde persons , places , and times which are all solemnly appointed to a holy vse . if this had been throughly weighed by a number i● our church , neither would the contempt of them haue beene so vsuall and so pardonable a fault , nor the defence haue beene thought ouer violent loue to superstition onely . but in these things with some amongst vs can neither diffent with their good fauour , nor consent with them with a good conscience . and if any man thinke that ceremonies are of that nature , that the obseruation of them is onely indifferent and lesse free , let him consider the great and violent discentions in the church that haue risen for them , and how councills haue condemned them as heretikes , onely for being stifly opposite in this kinde . the first dissention allmost in the church was for legall ceremonies which afterward was determined with this word ; these necessaries , to abstaine from blood , and frō strangling . the second great dissention was for easter day : neither was it thought then a small matter for which pope victor the first of that name , would haue separated all asia from the vnitie of the faithfull , onely for being disobedient in that point ; which afterwards was not the least occasion for assembling the counsell of nice , the councel of antioch not long after excommunicating all such , as for the obseruation of easter rested not in the determination of the nicen councell . to conclude , all that were willing to obserue it otherwise , by epiphanius , austin , and theodoret , are accounted heretikes . after this some such dissentions arose about baptisme , not for the essence , but the ceremonies in it ; the violence of which resisting , was not the least impuratiō to al the donatists . after these succeeded hotter contentions , but for matters of lesse moment ; in al which the oppugners of established order , euen in the lowest parts of religion , were little better accounted of the fathers , than plaine heretikes . the beginning of things ( saith seneca ) proceede slowly , but losses runne headlong ; the causes of euill , are vsually in a tumult , and breake out ( as in this ) from whence they are oft feared ; for whatsoeuer either person , or place , or custome , hath many admirers for the holines , must needes for the holines haue many to be enuiers of it : but in things whereunto men doe easily fall , discipline by authoritie must restraine such when singularitie is in daunger to make a schisme ; for where to make alteration in this kinde is allowed to all men , a dissolution saith caluin , must needes follow in the sinewes of that church , neither doe we make ( as in precepts of a higher nature ) euery defect to be a great sinne , but neglect in ceremonies is then no small fault , when disobedience and contempt are ioyned with it . our care in religion appearing by so much the greater , that wee are loth to neglect the adherents of it . for the contempt which willingly is offered vnto these , will easily without resistance extend it selfe to the ouerthrow of all religion . there is nothing can be a surer preseruer of religion , than to keepe it from contempt ; a thing not easily done , where it is left destitute , and depriued of holy ceremonies . for the principall excellencie of our religion being spirituall , is not easily obserued , of the greatest number which are carnall ; and therefore we propound not naked mysteries , but cloth them ; that these offering to the sences a certaine maiestie , may be receiued of the minde with a greater reuerence . and therefore some of the fathers , accounting them as the shell to the kernell , haue said that no religion either true or false , was possible to consist without them . so that amongst the auncient to be a diuine , was nothing else but to know what deities were to be worshiped , with what ceremonies . and amongst the iewes as a thing of greatest importance ierbro ▪ wisheth moyses to referre ciuill iudgements to others , and himselfe to instruct them in the ceremonies and rites of gods worship ; the ignorance whereof as it hath brought much harme into the church , so it is sharpely reproued by some of the fathers that haue been before vs. these if they had serued to no other vse yet were they manifest and honorable distinctions betwixt them that were heretikes , and those of the true church ; in whom howsoeuer we cannot iudge of their sinceritie , and religion that is inward , yet by the vse of these , we may easily discerne , what church in her worship they would seeme to follow ; for to cast away in time of persecution , the badge and signes of their warfare , was to discouer vnto the world that they were cowardly souldiers . tert●llian reporteth of one , who chose rather to die , then with the rest of the souldiers to be crowned with lawrell ; onely in this respect , that the christians had a ceremonie not to doe it . now if any man aske me a rule , whereby to discerne in this varietie of cerimonies which are to be reiected and which alowed ; we say with the apostle ; let all things be done honestly , and by order ; for true wisedome teacheth sobernes , and prudence , righteousnesse , and strength , which are the most profitable things that men can haue in this life . but if any man shall thinke , that cerimonies being externall things in religion , are not to be exacted with such violence , that their carefull refusing should depriue them of performance of greater good ; these in my opinion first erre in the ouer slight estimation of ceremonies , and then if they were but of that nature ( as contemptibly they thinke of them ) the alteration of such belongeth not to them , neither haue they ( where obedience is commaunded ) reason to refuse conformitie with so much stomacke ; especially in matters which by them are accounted of that nature . but because some of them thinke that ceremonies are but small things , and yet that a small thing may trouble the eye , as these the conscience ; i am sorry that they haue so farre weighed the hurt which themselues might receiue by doing of them , and so lightly valued the harmes they haue offered by their wilfull disobedience , to the lawfull ordinations of a reformed member of christs church . if the church of england retained any ceremonies that were vnholy and superstitious , demonstration should haue been made in this kinde , what they are : how many : of what nature : why daungerous : to which doubts ( being the sober demaunds of a weake conscience ) if due satisfaction could not haue been giuen , doubtlesse those who had the execution of such lawes , would haue giuen tolleration for a time , that they might be resolued , if by their humilitie they manifested a desire that they had to learne : but se●ing they confesse that by the late queenes iniunctions , all superstitious ceremonies are taken away , ●s shrines , tables , pictures , and such like ( a testimonie not vnworthely giuen to the reformed gouernment of so good a prince ) it is but a slender exception annexed , such doe we take the surplesse to be . a weake eye surely would haue seene a difference , and an humble minde would haue indured much more , rather then by such violent oppositions to haue so farre troubled the churches peace . i cannot well obserue in the tennor of that last defence , the plea of the innocent , what their constant opinion is concerning the cerimonies misliked in our church ; vnlesse they meane that they are idle , indifferent , and humane ordinations , whilest they are commaunded ; but being disobeyed by them , they are waight●i , and great causes , able to warrant resistance and rebellion in the highest measure . i wish they would either account them as trifles , and so being commaunded not so stifly refuse to vse them ; or else esteeme them matters of great moment , and so thinke the gouernors of the church haue reason , and warrant so much to vrge them . but the things say they in controuersie which wee desire to bee reformed and others earnestly maintaine , are but accessarie additaments , brought into the church by humane constitution , and without these the religion would stand . but we are sure that once being brought in , they are to be obeyed for conscience ; and surely the religion that would stand without them , with them shall be able to stand much better . many things which are not requis●t for the being , are notwithstanding required , to the well being . but afterward speaking of themselues , as desirous to be iustified for their dealing in this cause , they call it a good iust and wa●ghtie cause founded in gods word ; iniuriously reputed and tearmed , an accidentall fancie , and deuise . i hope wise men from their owne wrytings will obserue the dealings of these men ; that they may not be vrged by authoritie to obedience ( a poynt of religion i wish they had well learned ) they call these things but additaments , fit enough to bee contemned , because they are humane constitutions ; and yet after to approue their obstinacie for refusing of them , they call them waightie causes ; this contrarietie may peraduenture deceiue some , but truth at the length will discouer it selfe . falsehoode is slight and shines through if we looke into it . these onely mislike what they are not autho●s of themselues , and euer labour for excuses , as reasons to warrant what they doe mislike . they thinke and say it is pitrie necessarie seruice ( wherein i thinke they vnderstand their preaching ) should be houlden backe , by these vnnecessarie ceremonies . but if vnnecessarie ( whereof it is not fit for them to be iudges ) why doe they not rather yeeld vnto them by conformitie , then depriue themselues by their obstinacie , of doing that good , which by obedience they might ? and if any man thinke these ceremonies vnlawfull ( as weaknes may stumble in the plainest way ) why doe not they who haue cast these doubts , show which they are , the daungers of them ; and aduer tise those as becommeth them that make lawes , seeing we vse none but those which the law doth warrant ? besides if abuses had crept in with these ceremonies , and things tollerated first for good ends , could not afterward be retained , but with great abuse , these only had been to be remoued by authoritie , and not from the fancies of priuate men . it is their error who thinke it the act of reformation to take things away and not onely the abuse ; for reformation is properly the repetition and restitution of the auncient vse ; neither can that be said to be reformed which is made new ; far be it from vs faith an auncient father that things which are good and lawfull , if through the corruption of some few they become hurtfull , that this should be imputed to vs as our fault . for thus the vse of all things were daungerous and vnlawfull , seeing nothing can be so profitably imployed from whence daunger may not arise , vnto those that snall vse them otherwise . doubtles they haue done much in this that haue been before vs , yet some thing may be added by those which follow ; wherein if we alter or dissent from them , it can be no blemish to their names , which are not mentioned by vs , but with much honor . it is sufficient rome knew not cato but when she lost him . and the innocencie & vertue of rutilius had laine secret , if he had not receiued iniurie . but diseases ( as a wise man noteth ) sometimes ouertake those that are most temperate ; punishment those that are most innocent ; & tumults those that are most secret . but to conclude this point ( and to i●stifie the church of england , in the matter of ceremonie , wherein she hath heard euil , by some of her owne children without cause ) i doubt not to affirme , that few men haue euer red any iudgement , or censure of ceremonies written with greater moderation and learning , then that which is published next after the preface in the communon booke , out of which it shall not bee amisse , to note the iust reprehension of the intemperat affectours of innouation , as also the lawfull defence of such ceremonies as soberly they are vsed in our church . cerimonies there are which though they haue been deuised by man , yet it is thought good to reserue them still , as well for a decent order in the church for the which they were first de●ised , as because they pertaine to edification whereunto all things done in the church , as the apostle teacheth o●ght to be referred ; and although the keeping or omitting of a cerimonie in it selfe considered , is but a small thing , yet the willfull and contemptuous transgression and breaking of a common order and discipline is no small offence before god ; let all things be done among you saith saint paul in a seemely and due order ; the appoyntment of which order pertaineth not to priuate men , therefore no man ought to take in hand , nor presume to appoint or alter any publike or common order in christs church , except he be lawfully called and authorised thereunto . and as concerning those persons which peraduenture wil be offended for that some of the old cerimonies are retained still , if they consider that without some cerimonies , it is not possible to keepe any order or quiet discipline in the church , they shall easily perceiue iust cause to reforme their iudgements , and if they think● much that any of the old remaine , and would rather haue all deuised anew , then such men graunting some cerimonies conuenient to be had , surely where the old may be well vsed , there they cannot reasonably reproue the old , onely for their age , without bewraying their owne folly . for in such a case , they ought rather to haue reuerence vnto them for their antiquitie , if they will declare themselues to be more studious of vnitie , and concord , then of innouations and new fanglnes ; which as much as may be with the true setting sorth of christs religion , is alwaies to be eschewed . in these our doings we condemne no other nation , nor prescribe any thing but to our owne people onely . an excellent censure and graue moderation fit to be considered by al that are desirous to alter our church cerimonies . and surely it must needes seeme strange that when all opinions how false so euer , haue had this happinesse that some of their maintainers haue had the coullorable helpes of learning to defend their cause ; the chiefe aduersaries in this , haue dealt at all times so weakely , as if all of them purposely had ment to haue betrayed it . for to speake without partiallity what truth requireth in this poynt , the principall and first opposites , that i reade of vnto our church cerimonies , were those that in queene maries time got the libertie to plant a church at franckford ; where first ioyning with the french afterward out of their humors strengthned with some counsell from geneua , so farre dissented from their religious and learned countriemen , which hauing left their countrie for the profession of the gospell , lay then at zurick , strausborugh , wezell , and emden , that some bookes , and the greatest part of christendome was filled with the vnreuerent , vnholy and vnnaturall contentions of that time . this vnwise and inconsiderate dislike ( yet then much more tollerable where they had some showe of authoritie to plant a church ) kindled that fire which hath burned euer since , and without great resolution and wisedome of some in authoritie , doubtles long agoe , had burst fourth into a daungerous flame within the very bowels of our church ; and all onely from this head , that whilest the greater part was loth to yeeld to the wiser and more learned , some sparkes of that opposition ( notwithstanding their showe of reconcilement when they heard of queene maries death , daungerously brake out , when they returned home . they from franckeford , wrote to them of zuricke by maister grindall ( after that reuerent archbishop ) and maister chambers , that they thought not that any godly man would stand to the death in the defence of cerimonies ; which as the booke specified vpon iust occasions may be altered and changed ; accounting it an argument that they are slenderly taught which for breach of a cerimonie will refuse such a singular benefit as to ioyne with the church . they likewise from strausgburgh onely desired such vse of the communion booke , as no reasonable man shal iustly reproue ; a graue moderation doubtles in them , and a iust censure against all those , as being vnreasonable men which reproue it at this day . some of those that fledde vertously out of their owne countrie ( which was then for the most part an aulter for y e bodies of y e dead , or a prison●● the soules of the liuing ) vnaduisedly were content to make a schisme , as the donatists from the romane church , for the keeping of easter , and onely through the dislike of a few ceremonies , which in a letter that they wrote after queene maries death for ending of these contentions , they call trifles , and superfluous ceremonies . i cannot enough wonder how men of learning and iudgement ( as most of them surely had both ) could in time of banishment , in a strange citie , and amongst themselues , for the space of foure or fiue yeares , nourish a contention with that bitternes , for things of that nature which the most eager amongst them , did account but trifles . it had been surely a great honour to them , and a greater happines to this church , if they had remembred themselues ( though in exile ) to haue been a part of it , and so haue framed their orders to the gouernment , and those ceremonies which were established by law , and vsed by them in king edwards time . to this letter they of franckeford make a wiser and farre more reasonable answere , that it shall be to small purpose for them to contend for ceremonies , where it shall lie neither in your hands nor ours to appoint what they shall be ; but in such mens wisedomes , as shall be appoynted to the deuising of the same , and which shall be receiued by common consent of the parliament : and a little after , all reformed churches differ amongst themselues in ceremonies , and yet agree in the vnitie of doctrine , we see noe inconueniences if we vse some ceremonies diuers from them , so that we agree in the chiefe points of our religion . if all of them at their returne home , had obserue the moderation that was in some few , such clamorous inuectiues had not been vsed against those , whose places inioyne them to see an obseruation ( for the vniformitie of the church ) of those few , modest , and comely ceremonies , which the law appointed . but at their returne , one of them a man ( otherwise in the opinion of some vertuous , and learned ) chargeth vs that we make these antichristian ragges ( for so it pleaseth him in his heate to call them ) causam sine qua non , in christs holy ministerie ; so that these make an english priest be he neuer such a doult or villane , and without these romish reliks not paul himselfe should preach . what could any of our aduersaries haue spoken more bitterly against our cleargie ? and surely in the eares of any temperate , and wise man , it must needes seeme a strange and inconsiderate speech , to slaunder a whole church with so little reason , especially that church , whose honor and peace should haue been maintained by him . we dare in this take their owne offer , to rest vpon melancholie iudgement ( a thing peraduenture not so fit in another case ) that when the opinion of holinesse , of merit , of necessitie ( meaning a religious necessitie ) ( not a necessitie of obedience ) is put into things indifferent , then they darken the light of the gospell , and ought to be taken away . but they are with vs , as all other things of that nature , of comlines , of order , of obedience . and the same which was the reason to those in authoritie to remoue others , was likewise their reason to retaine these ; wherein if their wisedomes saw not so much ( as others peraduenture would haue done if they had been in their places ) we dare not take vpon vs to censure their doings , but where scripture is not against it , we are desirous to be obedient vnto those , that doe rule ouer vs. and where some thinke it is as lawfull ( if the prince commaund ) to weare aarons garments , as these , and if not aarons much lesse the popes ; first we say not that these are the popes , ( howsoeuer peraduenture by them vsed before vs ) neither are we bound ( for any thing that i know ) so precisely in all things to dissent from them . we are willing to retaine of theirs what we may , that those amongst vs which superstitiously are addicted to them , may see that it is not of malice , that we are parted , and themselues may haue lesse couller of excuse , for dissenting from vs but for any prince to commaund the wearing of aarons grrments , in that manner , and to that end that aaron ware them , were to erect that priesthood which is abolished , and those ceremonies which were types and ended at the passiō of christ in despight of his passion to call againe . neither can there be a comparison more inconsiderately made , then betwixt these two , seeing for the one not to be vsed their reasons are neither many nor of great waight , and for the other to be vsed , there is none at all . for if the lawe be taken away , whose priestly apparrell and garments were onely a figure and shadowe of christ to come , he then which doth vse such garments of aaron , doth heretically with the iewes confesse that christ is not yet come , and doth as much as in him lyeth renew the shadowes by him abolished , and receiuing againe his schoolemaster moses , doth forsake christ. therefore stand in the libertie wherewith christ hath deliuered you , and be not wrapped againe in the yoake of bondage ; wherefore seeing these ceremonies are neither the dregges of poperie , nor cannot in reason offend the weake , nor haue any religion actually placed in them , we see no cause as yet why they may not be continued in our church . chap. vii . of subscription . as there is little hope of peace in the outward gouernment of that church , where the leaders of others are not willing , or thinke it not lawfull , to be obedient ; so there is no one act , in the obseruation of al wise mā , more auaileable , and in reason more likely , to procure this , then that which tyeth the tongue , and hands , from any way resisting these lawfull ordinances that preserue peace . a thing ( doubtles ) if it had been well wayed , by those holy disturbers of the churches rest , who ( notwithstanding all this ) are desirous to seeme innocent ; surely themselues would haue been formost both to haue done and suffered whatsoeuer would haue serued to haue furthered the offices of deuotion , and to haue blessed the church with so much happinesse . neither can they be excused in this , as men wholie ignorant , seeing all know that the best times for performing religious duties , is when the church is at vnitie in it selfe ; and the meanes to attaine this , is for inferiours to be subiect to those reasonable directions that others giue . both because submission in them , is a part of dutie , and few that haue authoritie to commaund , if they want reason for that they doe ( a thing not to be thought in men of that wisedome and in a matter of so great importance ) yet seldome they want resolution , seuerely to exact dutifull obedience , where they doe commaund , mildnes which in some other cases may be a vertue being in this a vice ; opposite to that courage required in those who are to rale ouer vs. so that whilest some men haue published to the world , what others haue done , and they suffered in this kinde ; a hard censure of reproch for willfull resistance will blemish them to the worlds end , and a memorable testimonie of the others courage , shall follow amongst all posterities their blessed names , euen from the writings of such , as doe most dispraise them . the frute of their righteousnes being the churches peace , whilest the peeuish refusall in others , serued onely but to make a schisme . and as the glorious saints in heauen ( those blessed spirits freed from the troubles of this life ) enioy in gods presence an eternall peace ( who before in their flesh were comforted with the peace of the holy ghost : ) so if against outward enemies , both at home and abroade , they might haue obtained peacefull dayes and nights , this threefould cable should be hardly broken ; and the church might sing as we haue cause ( and more might haue had if these men would ) that god hath done great things for vs alreadie whereof we reioyce ; for that blessing which is the happinesse of all other societies , cannot in reason but be a singular aduantage for the better performance of our religious duties in gods seruice . this being the principall end of that great benefit of peace , that all men inioying those particular things without daunger , which god hath giuen them , haue stronger motions to giue him praise , and better meanes without disturbance to glorifie that name , which is great wonderfull and holy . and surely if it had not been for the ouerheadie disobedience of some men , wee might haue giuen this glorious testimonie of the happines of this land , that peace was within our walles , and plentiousnes within our pallaces , and that all the daies of queene elizabeth the church had rest . a blessing doubtles so long continued , such as our fathers neuer sawe the like , and when it shall be tould to our childrens children that are to come , they will not beleeue it . i haue euer in my weake opinion so farre honored the holy instruments of peace , that i did alwaies thinke , that their could not be a surer argument of an euill cause , then in a church reformed to resist authoritie , and to disobey those that should rule ouer vs. all other things obserue that law which their maker appointed for them ; for he hath giuen them a law which shall not be broken . this must needes bee the reproofe of man ( saith saint ambrose ) but most of all unto such , who being the children of the church ( nay which is more ministers to serue in it ) are notwithstanding disobedient vnto those lawes which in great wisedome for her owne safetie , the church hath made . as if she now might complaine as saint bernard did out of the prophet esay ; behold for felicitie i had bitter griefe ; bitter before in the death of martyres , more bitter after in the conflict with heretikes ; but most of all now with my owne house . vnlike in this to that maister , whose schollers they desire to seeme , who chose rather to loose his life , then to disobey . we had rather all of vs inuent , and teach , then heare and follow ; for our reason is but an euill lackey , but our will is worse . seeing we want not reasons ( as we think ) to warrant vs in that we do ; accounting the commaundements of others to be against right , and what wee will our selues that to be most holy . whereas true obedience hath nothing of his owne , but is wholy anothers ; it is daungerous when we say desperately , surely we will walke after our owne imaginations , and doe euery man after the stubbornes of his wicked heart . this vertue of obedience maketh good things vnlawfull as the eating of the forbidden tree to adam ; and euill things to be good and lawfull , as to smite the prophet ; the one because he did what he was forbidden was punished with death , and the other was deuoured of a lyon because he did it not . that which at another time ought to haue been omitted and could not be done without a great sin , now ( being commaunded ) without a great sinne could not be omitted . neither is the fault much lesse ( though the parties be diuers ) so long as the authoritie that commaundeth is all one ; nor can we ( vnlesse we flatter our selues ouer much ) thinke that we are obedient to god , whilest we are willing to disobey those whom he in his wisedome hath placed ouer vs. neither are we so much to waie ( in things not simply vnlawfull ) what that is that is commaunded , as with this to be content , that it is commaunded . this if it had been duely considered by some in our church , they had neither gloried so much that in not yeelding to order they were vnlike others , neither had they with such showe of reason , labored to make the ignorant beleeue , that the lawfull , wise , and religious exacting , of subscription , was like vnto an inquisition and the tyranous requiring of an vnlawfull thing . but in this fact wherein the wisdome of authoritie was thought too cruell , they are able to answere why they did refuse . for what men being inioyned by order doe not , doubtlesse of that ( in equitie ) they are bound to giue a reason : which whilest some haue laboured to performe in this kinde , the world hath seene what small and weake excuses they haue had to refuse obedience ; a thing which must in the end lie heauie vpon them , that haue made resistance without cause , or else vpon them that without warrant , did exact it from them . neither haue these refusers of subscription , been onely actors themselues in this disobedience , but the authors by their example haue thrust with violence , men of lesse learning and greater moderation , into the like contempt . this being as one noteth the principall vnhappines of those men , that they had the authoritie of the aged , and the faults of youth . who being in this ( as they thought ) to publish their vertue ; were supposed not without cause , in the opinion of wise men , that they affected glorie . the church hath found the example of these to be very daungerous , who were thought in that wherein they did amisse to be very holy . for such a one few are willing to reproue ; and example doth inlarge the fault when the sinner is honored for the reuerence of his person . doubtles there was no act since the death of queene mary , either of greater wisedome to preserue the peace of the church in those that were first authors of it , or of more daungerous disobedience in the refusers , then the act of subscription was . a practise not first inuented by vs , but arising of it selfe , euen from that naturall care , which ought to be in all of authoritie , to take securitie ( as it were ) for the good behauiour , of all such as are admitted to teach others . by this one act both binding their hands and tongues from any way disabling the churches orders , and testifying to the world , the vnitie of that church where all of one calling , haue giuen their approbation , to those lawfull ordinations , which authoritie in wisdome , moderation , and vertue haue set downe . whereby it appeareth , as their grieuance to be lesse , so their fault to be much greater then they thinke , who haue refused to subscribe , and haue labored with others to doe the like ; whilest notwithstanding they haue giuen their hands ( and doe daily ) not onely to their owne dicipline ( wherein the best amongst themselues agree not and the meaner haue not knowledge toexamine ) but also to false suggestions , intemperate petitions , vniust complaints , lawes and ordinances of their owne . for all which they haue ( by many degrees ) lesse warrant , than to subscribe , to that which they doe refuse . this onely being the difference , that they distaste any thing that is not new , and their hands are ruled by example , and fancie , in that they doe . wherein if they had well considered in humilitie , that obedience which the church might exact of them , as also ( without preiudice ) the lawfulnes of those things , whereunto they were required to set their hands ; doubtles the vrging would not haue been thought a matter of so much rigor , nor the refusing be so much defended , as a thing lawfull . for what indifferent man can thinke it vnmeete , that when the prince , and the parliament haue made orders , ca●ons , iniunctions , articles , or any thing of that kinde , for the vniformitie in the church gouernment , that a bishop hauing authoritie to institute into spirituall liuings with cure , should require by subscription a consent vnto these things , before he be admitted in to that charge ? a thing if by his owne authoritie for the peace of that dioces committed to his care the bishop had done , surely the fault had been much lesse , then in any that had refused to performe obedience . but seeing the law doth inioyne subscription , and that they ( howsoeuer wronged by the clamorous complaints of some ) are but ministers to see the due execution of the law , for the peace of the church , they haue as little reason to lay the burthen of this vpon the bishops shoulders , as a robber by the high way ▪ his apprehension , arrainment , and execution to the iustice charge . the law in them both hauing made that prouision , that they which doe what the law forbids , or doe not what the law commaunds , must be content ( for their owne fault ) willingly to suffer what the law inflicts . and therefore it must needes be by so much the more strange , that men who are content to flatter the prince , the parliament , and those that doe make lawes , can thinke themselues warranted to refuse obedience , and reuile those honorable and reuerend persons to whom onely is committed the execution of them . besides , places , times , and persons , orderly with iudgement and conscience concurring to make lawes , euery person in the land hauing resigned his particular intrest to those , who are assembled to that end , all after examination is debarred , to all how wise so euer , who are not admitted to that , and at that time ; much more to the rest , whose weakenes of iudgement cannot without apparant suspition of intollerable pride , take vpon them the examination of those lawes , before they can easily be drawne to subscribe vnto them . the particular exceptions that are made by them ( although seuerally answered by sundrie most learned and graue men heretofore ) yet then we shall better examine when we come to the defence of the communion booke . onely we say now , that the vrging of subscription , so farre as the bishops doe , and ought , is warranted by lawe from man , and the disobedience of those who refuse to doe it , is no way warranted by the lawes of god. so that both the tumultuous and clamorous outcries , which they haue raised , onely for this , and the slender excuses pretended for so foule a fact , are but like the coullerable rebellions , which for inlarging of commons , the basest of the people haue stirred vp . but least peraduenture i should doe them wrong , i am willing that the reader should heare them speake . and herein i will make choyse of him , who comming later then the rest , vndertaking from the writings of others to pleade the cause , hath labored to free them from this great fault , and to iustifie that they haue performed so much as the statute required in this kinde . it is like he rather desired to tell the world that he was an actor in the troubles of that time , then to giue reasons , for that which he and they did , or to craue with submission , pardon of the church , for that which they did not . aboute the yeere ( saith one ) 1571. subscription was inforced vpon the ministerie , for which cause in that time , certaine men wrote an admonition to the parliament opening diuers things worthie of reformation , whereupō arose great volumes of prouing , & defending , &c. but in the middest of these fiery contentions , a goodly space of quietnes about the time that the reuerend father maister grindall was archbishop of canterburie , &c. after the said archbishops death there came forth a new & fresh assault of subscription , vniuersally imposed , and againe inforced , vpon all the ministers in three articles ; first of the queenes maiesties soueraigne authoritie ouer all persons , &c. secondly that the booke of common prayer , and of ordayning bishops , priests , and deacons , containe in it nothing contrarie to the word of god , &c. thirdly to allowe and approue all the articles of religion , agreed vpon by the archbishop and bishops , &c , 1562 , and to beleeue all therein contained to be agreeable to god. the ministers offered freely and willingly to subscribe to the first article of her maiesties most lawfull authoritie : and for the other two they refused to doe any further then by law they were bound ; and namely according to the statute made for that purpose anno 13. hereupon many in diuers shires were suspended from the execution of their ministery and some depriued . and in another place , we cannot tell whether we might by the lawes and order of this realme , subscribe although it were otherwise lawfull by gods word ; it concerneth the whole state aduisedly to consider that the holy ministers of god be not oppresse lwith an vniust subscription . this the author calleth in another place the first great storme that fell vpon them , and in another place this he maketh to be the fruites of subscription that the unpreaching minister , and the non-resident are both warranted by it ; and in another place it is , ( meaning subscription ) against many good and learned ministers , and some it thrusteth out . others before this author , both for time and worthines , haue stifly ( but i doubt scarse considerately ) refused obedience in this point . the some of all their reasons tending to this end , that many obscure vntruthes , were contained in those things , whereunto they required that they should subscribe ; all aiming at this , that nothing was euer so greeuous in the church , to the humours and dispositions of these men , as to giue by subscription their allowance vnto that which the lawes had done . one of them to the lords of the councell , speaking of subscription ; when d. whitgift was made archbishop , and set forth his vnaduised deuise , of subscription , it seemed as a strong pot of brasse that would soone haue broken in peeces all the power of poore ministers and made discipline in vtter contempt ; i will only put the reader in minde , that though it were no dishonor vnto his grace , to be the author of so wise an order , for the church , yet the same ( by their owne confession ) was a lawe , before her maiestie had called him to be a bishop ; another ( for it were endlesse and of little vse to alleage the reasons of iohnson preacher at northhampton , of grayer and many besides published to this end ) being more learned ( yet in my opinion lesse religious thē the rest ) hath set downe some reasons , why the bishops doc vrge subscription t● her maiesties authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall ; first for a hope of a more sure setlednes to themselues and their followers ; that none may hereafter preach against the lordlynes of prelates , that none may preach against ciuill offices in a preiate ; that none may speake against baptisme by women ; that none may preach against an vnlearned ministerie ; that none may preach against any corruption yet established whatsoeuer . a strange collection thus to aime at the intention of making lawes . but we say no otherwise of him , then a father did in the like case . his words showe vs wholy what he is , and if we therefore know him not , because we haue not seene his face , neither doth he knowe himselfe because he doth not see his face . but these doubtles and such like are but as saint hierome calles them , the hissings of the old serpent . for wise men would haue thought that these had had nothing to haue spokē , vnlesse they had propounded this to thēselues to haue spoken euill . but seeing the tenor of them all is all one ( an vnreuerent estimation and speaking of men in authoritie and lawes that are made by them ) a fault surely not small nor easily forgiuen , if the cause were vertuous ; i must needes before i answere them , giue them this aduise , which i hope some will follow , they that do as gennadius reporteth of one seuerus seduced to bee a pelagian , acknowledge their loquacitie with him and keepe silence vnto death ; that they may recompence by their silence what they haue offended in speaking . now before we answere this , which they haue alleadged against subscription ; the consideration of the nature of that , doubtles must be fittest which in all reason ought to be accounted the best warrant to excuse them , both in this and the rest which they doe refuse ; a reason which cannot be the same to all , and in those in whom it is found , without deceite , they are rather to be pittied and instructed , then to be vrged to that ( which how lawfull so euer ) ( their conscience gainesaying ) they doe make a sinne . for though the conscience of man allowing cannot make that to be no sinne , which the lawe doth , yet the conscience forbidding , may make that to be a sinne , which the lawe doth not . and therefore amongst men of wisedome , and vertue , there is no plea that ought to be heard with so much attention , as when men for that which they doe , or doe not , truely and sincerely doe alleadge their conscience . now as the coullorable excuse for refusing to subscribe , must be the weaknes of such mens conscience , who were perswaded in themselues , the things to be vnlawfull whereunto they were required to giue allowance ; so surely a double fault must lie vpon them ( if there be any such ) who making no conscience of those things , pretend only the greatest bond vpon earth , to be the lawfull warrant of refusing of that which they would not doe . and surely where feare and humilitie are both wanting , there it is ouer much charity to thinke that they make a conscience . all men vnderstand not aright , what that is which they alledge for themselues , when they say ( their conscience . ) there is naturally ingrafted in the heart of man , that light of nature which neuer can be put out , that telleth him that no euill is to be done . now reason according to the knowledge that it hath ( which in some is more , and in some lesse ) deliuereth his iudgement of particulars , that they are euill or good ; from whence the conclusion followeth , they are to be done being good , or omitted being euill . and this is our conscience ; which is nothing els , but an application of our knowledge to a particular act . this application is made in a threefould manner ; as first to consider whether such a thing bee done or not done ; and doubtles in this , our consciences can best tell the actions and intentions of those which are done by vs. giue not thy heart ( saith salomon ) to al the words that men speake , least thou do heare thy seruant cursing thee , for oftentimes thy heart knoweth , that thou likewise hast cursed others . the second application is when we iudge of the fact which is done , whether it be well or euill ; the measure of our knowledge in this making vs to mistake , as euill for good , so that to be euill which indeede is good . the third is , that this , or that , is to be done , or to be left vndone . in the first it is a witnes , which will not lie ; in the second , it may accuse , but not absolutely excuse ; in the last it may binde , though it want strength , in this respect onely that we are weake . for those new cords ( and such are new opinions ) which were not able to hold sampson , may easily hold him fast , that is many degrees weaker then sampson was . the first of these respecteth the time past ; the second the time present ; the third for the well or euill doing to the hauing or suffering the ioy or torment that is to come ; as if he that had made time , the pretiousest circumstance of all our actions , had set our conscience as the seuere and diligent watchman of all our times . thus seeing the vse of conscience ; the next consideration is for the originall of the errors in it : these are two , a false assumption , and a false application . in the first we take those things to be good or true , which indeede directly are euill , and false ; ( an error peraduenture that misleadeth a number in this point ; ) so those that put the apostles to death , did thinke in that action that they pleased god ; for the time was come that our sauiour foretold , whosoeuer killeth you , will thinke that hee doth god seruice . in the second a false application , arising out of a true ground ; because hee heareth that god is to bee loued aboue all things , thinketh it vnlawfull to loue any thing except god. both these erre not alike , but the error of conscience doth infect both . neither ought a conscience that thus erreth to binde , seeing the force and strength of conscience , is not built vpon himselfe , but vpon some precept ( seeming so vnto it selfe , being no good reason ) but either because it is commanded , or els forbidden . al the actions of man are of three sorts ; good , euill , and indifrent . if our conscience say that is to be done , which is naturally good , it is no error . if it deny that to be done which is euill it is no error ; for by the same reason , euill is forbidden which commaundeth good . but if on the contrarie , it say that is to be done which is naturally euill , or not to be done which is good ( a thing fit to be considered in this case ) it is doubtles a conscience which doth erre in both . likewise in indifferent things ( as the remouing of a strawe ) ( and yet some wise men haue made these things refused by them , of that nature ) to make them of necessitie , on either part where authoritie hath not determined , is a conscience without doubt that doth much erre . for euery will that disagreeth from reason , either true , or false , directly sinneth ; for whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne : and yet euery thing which is done by the will , giuen assent vnto reason , is not voyde of sinne , because that ignorance which is a fault , cannot possible make the action to be without fault . the conscience as it includeth knowledge and is conioyned with the light of nature is euer right , yet as it is ioyned to reason , and about particulars it often erreth ; the light of nature maketh the first proposition that it is not lawfull to doe euill ; our reason ( which often erreth either through ignorance or the strength of fancie ) saith this is euill ; whereupon the conscience being misled , maketh a firme and a strong conclusion , therefore by no meanes i ought to doe it . in the first proposition there can be no error ; sometimes there is in the second ( as peraduenture in this act of subscription whilest we call good euill and euill good ) and so a falsehoode in the conclusion ; which as the logicians say , euer followeth the weaker part . the errors on both hands are , when it is either too large tending to presumption , making euill good ; or to strait tending to despaire ; making good euill ; whereas the prophet pronounceth a woe to both . now because euery conscience that would not erre , ought to be grounded vpon the commaundement that god giueth , doubtles it is more safe to obey a conscience that erreth not , then the commaundement of any who is but a mortall creature . but those who wilfully suffered martirdome , for opinions which they fancied , and willingly should haue disclaimed , were not commended for that they did , being but the martyres of foolish phylosophy , and no way to be praised for that they suffered . but in things which are indifferent ( as many things misliked peraduenture are ) the precept of the superior doth binde more , then the conscience of the inferior can ; for though the conscience be iudge , yet the other is more immediate vnder god ; and this is but in those things , which either directly are commaunded , or els forbidden . for the subiect hath the commaundement of the superior for his warrant , and in things of this nature , his dutie is not to examine ; but onely to performe what he seeth commaunded . wherein surely the consideration ought to be greatest of those in authoritie what they doe commaund ; but to determine this point ( which peraduenture is the case in question ) according to that which the schoolemen say ; we answere that the bond of an erring conscience is greater , because it is more vehement , and bindeth longer , then in things of this nature the commaundement of a superior doth ; but directly it is lesse on the other side , because it is fitter to bee vnloosed ; for both the bond , and the conscience are to be reformed , where as the obedience to the superior in this , can admit no dispensation ( things now ceasing to be what they were by nature ) and this being no part of the inferiors dutie , to examine the lawfull ordinations that superiors make . now whether these men that in refusing to subscribe , say they follow their conscience , are ruled by that which is to be reformed , or directed by that which shall be their warrant , reason and time will easily finde out , if due examination be taken both of their refusing , and of the things themselues which they doe refuse . the conscience which doth erre though it binde vntill it be reformed , ought notwithstanding to be reformed ; because , either ignorance , negligence , pride , inordinate affection , faintnes , perplexitie , or selfe loue , are the corrupt and originall causes of the errors of it . so that if none of these haue ouerruled the conscience of these men , but that knowledge with due consideration hath directed them in that they did , we haue great reason to harken to their excuse , and to regarde them with more attention , whilest with reuerence and humilitie they alleage their conscience . in the meane time for remedie against these errors , let them not disdaine the counsell which wise men haue found to be most safe , if it be of ignorance to say with iehosaphat , we know not what to doe but our eyes are towards thee ; if of negligence to come without partiallitie or preiudice as nichodemus to christ , to those that for knowledge are fit to teach them . if of pride to submit our selues one to another , and especially to those that haue more learning & do rule ouer vs ; for he that praiseth himselfe , is not alowed but he whom the lord praiseth . a singularitie in this kinde hath been the originall of most heresies in all ages , and not the least occasion of the troubles of these times ; for he that walketh vprightly walketh bouldly ( the rest are presumptuous ) but he that peruerteth his waies , shall be knowne . if from inordinate affection , making that lawfull which we haue a minde to doe , we must harken to iudgement , and refuse our affections in this case ; for iudgement turned into affection , doth all perish . if from faintnes , then onely to be scrupulous & feareful when we haue cause , least we thinke it lawfull because we streane a knat , for to swallow a cammell . if of perplexitie , when a man is closed as it were betwixt two sinnes , where he is not able ( though willing ) to auoyde both ; that which will not make either to be lawfull , will make one of them directly a lesse sinne . this is not euer to do euill , that good may come of it ; for though the casting away of things profitable for the sustenance of mans life , be an vnthankfull abuse of the fruites of gods good prouidence towards mankinde ; yet this consideration did not hinder saint paul from throwing corne into the sea , when care of sauing mens liues made it necessarie to loose that which else had been better saued . for of two such euils being not both euitable , the choyse of the lesse is not euill ; and euils ( as a wise man noteth ) must be in our construction iudged ineuitable , if there be no apparant ordinarie way to auoyde them ; because where counsell and aduise beare rule , of gods extraordinarie power without extraordinarie warrant wee cannot presume . last of al , if of humility , ( an error surely of least daunger ; ) we wish them onely to take heede of to much feare ; else we say it is the propertie of good mindes there to acknowledge a fault , where no fault is . for whilest the conscience of man is troubled in this manner , grace repaireth in man the excellent image of his first maker . thus giuing our simple direction , and not daring to censure the consciences of such , as thinke their refusall to be warranted with pretence of conscience ; we will examine a little what they haue said , and done , and whether the exacting or refusing of subscription , was a greater sinne . if the vrging of subscription which the law required , was the cause of those seuerall admonitions which the parliament had , surely a worse effect could not haue proceeded from so good a cause , then that which was a vertuous inuention to make peace , by the vnquiet disposition of some few , should become the originall fountaine of so much warre . and surely that mildnes , which that reuerend archbishop grindall vsed in those times , little auailed with those men for to make them better ; which in wisedome euer since , hath caused others in that place , for to vse the lesse . for experience ( euen in them ) findeth it to be most true , that fauour in that kinde they esteeme but desert , and the patience of others but their owne merit . yet wise men in the same place , at diuers times , to the same persons , may vse direct contrarie courses and both well . the second inforcing of subscription in the three articles of supremacie , the booke of common prayer , with those things annexed , and the booke of articles made in the synode 1562. the first they allowe , but as for both the other they esteeme them vnlawfull , and such as the statute requireth not of them ; where me thinkes it is strange that men which doe not so much as the lawe requires , will alleadge ( notwithstanding ) the lawe for their warrant , in that which they doe not . for if either the vrging of law , by the vertue of law , or not against law , could in wisedome haue serued to make peace ; those men had little reason to haue been against it , who were not able to proue that it was vnlawfull , and knew the authoritie to be lawfull that required it of them . neither was there any great reason , to hope for obedience in subscribing to the articles ( if the lawe required it ) seeing they are not willing towards the communion booke to affoord that allowance which the law required . and howsoeuer i take not vpon me to interpret the meaning of that statute , yet surely the pretended exception of law , is of little force , seeing both the archbishops and bishops and al the clergie in the conuocatiō , subscribed vnto them ; and that all canons which the church doth make , haue either confirmation vnder the great seale , or the parties that make them , haue warrant by the statute for that they doe . and if it had not been , euer their practise to make a pretence of law , for that for which they haue no warrant , neither would they doe it if the law commaunded ; it were better to be excused in that they refuse with pretence of law . with the same boldnes some haue affirmed that the present gouernment of the church of england by archbishops and bishops vnder the prince is to be accounted vnlawfull by the statutes of this land , and that to be a lord bishop is directly against the statute eliz. 13. a practise like this some of the church of rome haue lately vsed against vs , as though our oppositiō against them , were beyond law ; and the instruments made for our defence , and to cut them off , were intruth the safest protection their actions had . but haue these men that thus earnestly pretend law , either neuer subscribed to any thing of their owne without law , or euer been obedient to the lawes of others ? surely if they had , the contention in this kinde , had been buried that day when it was first borne . but the english when they came to franckeford were tied to subscribe to the same confession of faith , which the french had : after they themselues enioyned all to subscribe to their discipline , that they might showe that they were readie and willing to be subiect to it . nay d. cox ( a man at that time farre better i thinke then any that refuse subscription ) and his companie were not admitted to haue voices in the church of frankeford , vntill they had subscribed to the discipline as others had done before them . these holy conscionable refusers to assent to the ordinations that others make , are violent exactors of subscription , and obedience , in a strange countrie , at their betters hands , to those pettie orders , which are of their owne making . when maister horne was made pastor of the church at frankeford , he receiued all such persons as members of that church , which were contented to subscribe and to submit themselues to the orders of it . a wise course not vnfit for a greater gouernment , wherein all men ought to binde themselues some way or other , vnto the obedience of those vnder whom they liue . nay if any minister appeale to the magistrate , and be found to doe it without iust cause ( a fault surely lesse then their refusing to subscribe ) yet then he shall be directly deposed from his ministerie by them . neither was this the practise of those times , and in that place , but euen at home those men , who had neither authoritie to make lawes nor to exact of others allowance of them , haue required , and had , a generall subscription to that discipline , which neither scripture , wisedome , law , or themselues , could approue vnto vs. so that all those inconsiderate and vnreuerend termes which most of them haue intemperately vttered , against subscription , are but the violent courses of men , that desire to punish , and not the charitie of such as should ( if they had authoritie ) correct . let them show their affection , that they loue our church , and then we will allow them to vtter and aduise what they thinke good . in the meane time , those false coniecturall effects , for which subscription was required ( as they thinke ) are but vncharitable deuises of their owne , onely to make those in authoritie to be more odious ; that contempt of their persons , breeding disobedience to their gouernment , either a generall dissolution may bring a palsey into the church , or else we must onely be ruled by orders of their making . which because neither reason , nor experience hath taught vs to be so safe , we hold the exacting of subscription to be lawfull and necessarie , in those that doe it , and the refusall to be daungerous , vnholy , and vnwarranted , in those that are disobedient . they which haue labored in their zealous defences , to make the world for to thinke otherwise , they haue taken vpon them to iustifie themselues with to much loue , and to censure our church with to much rigor . but it is like a better consideration will possesse them now , when they shall haue small reason to feare , either partiallitie , or want of vnderstanding , to make the chiefe in authoritie either not willing , or not able , to perceiue their weightie reasons , alleaged against those things , which they doe mislike . but wise men surely haue cause to feare , that nothing wil either much , or long , please them , which is not some transformed monster of their owne making . so that if any defect be in that statute ( as they vrge ) made by our late soueraigne of blessed memorie , whereby the refusers may pretend a warrantable excuse for not yeelding by subscription an absolute obedience both to the doctrine , gouernment , and ceremonies of the church , we hope that now hauing tasted of the sower frutes , of their disobedience , and seeing without preuention that more daungerous inconueniences , are like to follow it will not be thought vnfit , either in his maiesties singular wisedome and great iudgement , or in the honorable consideration of the whole parliament , is stricter lawes be now made to take securitie by subscribing , of the tongues and the hands of these men , which so often with so much libertie , and boldnes they haue wilfully imployed to the hinderance of the churches peace ; we demaund but in this , what they thinke reasonable in their owne discipline ; not onely for men but for women , to the auoyding of heresies and sects , in the church . and if he that hath most learning and hath been most earnest for the alteration of our church gouernment be able to make demonstration , that their hands are required to giue consent to any one syllable , either in our ceremonies , our liturgy or our discipline , which truth will not warrant , and obedient humilitie exact from them , i doubt not but the bishops of our land are , and will be readie , either to giue them satisfaction why they ought to doe it , or yeelde vnto their earnest demaunds , that it may not be done . but if any man thinke that the vrging of this ( wherein doubtlesse a remisnes in some hath done more hurt then rigor ) is either to confirme those things , which without the allowance of these great refusers to subscribe , might peraduenture be thought to want authoritie ; or that it is meerely a politike inuention , besides law , whereby the practises of the bishops and others , may be free from reproofe , he doth vncharitably misconster a religious ordination , for great vse , and to the wrong of himselfe , sinisterly suspect in both . so that we thinke we may ( notwithstanding their great complaints of cruel●ie , persecution , and tyranny , wherewith diuers of their books haue slaundered the most pure , peaceable , and reformed gouernment that euer this nation had since it was christian , giuing occasion to the common aduersarie , to write as they haue done of the english iustice ) safelie conclude , that the exacting of subscription vsed by the bishops , in the church of england is lawfull , and ne●essarie , and the refusers , are immodest , disturbers , of the vnitie , and peace , both of the church , and the common-wealth . chap. viii . of discipline . seeing that no societie vpon earth can long ( without authoritie to correct ) retaine all her parts in due obedience , and that the disorders of none are of more daunger then of that societie which we cal the church ; it is of all ciuill considerations the greatest , to thinke of that discipline which is best warranted , most agreeable to the state of that kingdome where the church is , and in all reason likelyest to obtaine that end for which discipline is allowed vnto gods house . so that herein if either their skill had been so great , or their moderation in that busines so much ( as peraduenture their desire was to doe good ) doubtles the church ought in all reason , to haue giuen great attention to these careful aduisers , and to haue showed her selfe readie with thankfulnes , to make vse of those vertuous indeuours , religiously imployed for her good . but now that they haue obtruded a discipline with that violence , and such a one as must quiet ouerthrow , both the practise of other churches , and of this in al other ages that haue been before vs , nor this as the inuention of wise men , not against the word , but the expresse commaundemēt in euery particular of god himself , accounting those to haue no church ( this being as essentiall as either the word or the sacraments ) where this is wanting ; wee haue great cause both to examine the practises of these men , and to consider that discipline which they tender vnto vs , for that which we now haue ; and what benefit by this exchange is likely to redownd vnto gods church . and surely if both our disciplines had the like warrant , that they were the lawfull ●rdinations of men for the well gouerning of the church , not repugnant to the word of god , yet it is like the aduantage would be far greater on our side , being auncient , not the inuention of our selues , found to be safe by experience , and duly proportioned with the greatnes , riches , freedoms , glory and gouernment of this kingdome , whereas theirs , in their owne opinions ( if they were not ouer partially addicted to it ) is new , the inuention of late time , dangerous by experience in a kingdome , and no way proportioned but to the limits and bounds of some priuate citie ; we haue knowne the aduocates of this discipline to haue much grace ( for which i do honor them ) in exhortation and prayer ; but to be either inuentors , or aduisors of lawes and ordinations fit for a church discipline , their manner of liuing doth not allowe them that wisdome : so that wee holde it much safer to retaine our owne ( reforming such parts as the boldnes of sinne maketh vs to thinke now to bee too remisse ) rather than to aduenture an exchange , euen for that which by so many titles , they commend vnto vs. for surely no man is lesse fit to lend his tongue to giue praise to a worke , than he or they , who haue lent their heads and their hands to be authors of it , both because all of vs naturally , loue what we doe our selues , and seldome haue wee so much vnderstanding that we doe a●●isse , when we had no more vnderstanding but to faile in the doing of it . but where their owne weakenes or want of experience might faile , as not affoording them so much wisdome to make lawes , if there they will vrge vs with expresse commaundement of holy scripture , then it must not seeme strange vnto them , if that for which they pretend scripture , without warrant of scripture be not admitted by vs , wherein if they faile , the church at their hands receiueth a double wrong , first a contention to disturbe her peace , and secondly , the false pretence of an euerlasting truth , to giue authority and warrant to the late , unwise , inconsiderate and vnholy inuentions of silly men . dealing in this but peraduenture with lesse malice ( as satan and all heretikes haue done ) to couller temptations and heresies with gods word . for seeing that with man ( especially in the church ) nothing is , or ought to be of that account as the scriptu●es are , all men are d●sirous for that which they are willing to maintaine , to alledge that proofe which hauing g●eatest authoritie , must with men of reason finde least resistance . for in all other things let reason be neuer so apparant with some men , they are as easily contemned as they are alledged ; this onely conteyned in the two testaments , both in admonishing is vpright , in promising is heauenly , and in threatning is fearefull . all other writings as the assurance is but weake which they can affoord , so their proofes are but the opinions or iudgements of mortall men , and where the hearer is of the same nature with him that perswadeth , reason oftentimes doth bel●●ue , that he hath not much reason to be perswaded . but in the scriptures ( as hugo saith ) whatsoeuer is taught is truth ; whatsoeuer is commaunded is goodnes ; and whatsoeuer is promised is happines ; and therefore these men haue proceeded aright ( if they be able to proue what they vndertake ) in making the plaine scripture to be the commaunder of all parts of that discipline , which doubtlesse whithout scripture , reason hath little warrant to thinke that lawfull ; we understand then by discipline in this chapter ( which notwithstanding few of the patrones haue defined vnto vs ) that eternal gouernment of the church , and of euery member thereof , in respect they are of the church , whereby manners are reformed , the peace of the church maintained , god glorified , and order and decency procured ; this whether in substance it be such that nothing is to be added , altered , or diminished , is the principall contention betwixt them and vs ; our church holding that it hath this libertie to prescribe orders for the whole assemblie ; to giue direction for the goods of the church ; and the maintenance of the clergie ; for the proceeding in matters of church gouernment ; making lawes and ord●rs ; iudiciall notice , censures , election of offices , and such like ; and this not without the authoritie of him , who hath the supremacie in all causes ; all these we hold changeabl● according to times , and places , whereas those ( who will needes be our aduersaries in this cause ) will haue all such as concerne the substance of discipline to be appointed by god , and to be alwaies firme , and immutable , and the eldership to haue the execution of them ; and to this end in euery parish or precinct , there must be a presbyterie of doctors , pastors , elders , and deacons ; and of diuers presbiteries , conferences and synodes ; all which ( say they ) are precisely required in gods word . but seeing remonstrance hath been made both of the errors of them all , and the infinit dissentions amongst themselues , we can be content to let that discipline fall , which stronger then they ( if they were willing ) could hardly haue strength for to hold vp . this discipline of the church ought to see the execution of those lawes , and ordinances , which god by his apostles in their time , and daily since by the church maketh ; neither doe we thinke that any in the bosome of the church , after so long a time of knowledge , can now doubt , but that god hath left vnto his church , an authoritie to make lawes , the execution whereof in reason is committed to those , who succeed in place and authoritie , the apostles of christ , that did plant the church ; whose dominion ( notwithstanding ) we make not so absolute , that like tyrants at their pleasure , they may rule ouer christs flocke ; yet the power that the rulers of the church haue , in matters of a lower nature , are lesse limited by farre ( hauing warrant to ordaine and appoint things indifferent ) which serue for order , comlines , and the edification of christs church . by this authoritie the apostles ordained many things in the church , whereof from christ they had no expresse mention ; by this power s. paul ordained that gatherings should be made at corinth , vpon the lords day ; that the man should pray bare headed , and the woman couered . such autho●itie at this day a particular church hath ( as of england france end scotland , or any other ) that the clergie with the allowance of the prince and the rest , whom it may concerne for to make lawes , may ordaine , and appoint , ●uch ordinances , as seruing for edification , order , and comlines in the church , are so long in force , vntill they shall be abrogated by that authoritie that did first make them . to this we referre , the time , and manner , of publike prayer , administring the sacraments , ecclesiasticall censures , apparell for diuine seruice , ornaments of churches , and such like ; all which as the church frō christ hath lawfull authoritie to ordaine , so it is peeuish disobedience in those men , who had rather without warrant , impose vpon the church lawes of their own making , then by commaundement obey the lawful ordinations that others make . now because in no societie , al men will be obedient at all times , and that it is little auaileable to make lawes , and no way to see to the execution of them ; as the church hath left vnto her admonitions to warne thē , & correctiōs to restraine ; so last of al she hath power to suspend , frō partaking of the best things , that the church hath , because they haue refused to obey , the voyce of the church , in those lesser ordinations that she made ; the seueritie of the church tending to this end , the amendment of such whō she doth correct , and the terrifying of others from the like offence ; wherein if our church , administer this discipline with two much lenitie ( a fault surely if at all in inferior officers ) we had rather aduenture the manifest inconuenience of that euill , then hazard by a new course , the certaine molestation of a farre greater . now because all men will seeme to haue reason for that they doe , and no reasons are equall to those which the scripture yeeld , some wise men amongst them haue vndertakē to make proofes from hence , absolutely in their opinions sufficient , to establish this new discipline . the consideration of which weaknes , as also the great iniurie vnto gods word , must needes make , that their discipline doth want proofes , which themselues are rather desirous thē able to alledge for it . it must needs seeme strange , that because moses and aaron when they came into egypt , did at gods commandement cal together the elders of the children of israel that the very mention of their names , shuld be alledged as a warrant for the elders of the church in this new discipline . but one of gene●a writing vpon that place faith , such were vnderstoode as by doctrine , and example did rule , the people ; whereas their elders are laymen and by no meanes are admitted to teach others . others , peraduenture more truly , men of that time , and not much diffe●ing from that humor , sa● that neither preachers , nor lay elders are vnderstoode by it , but only such ciuill gouernors as were senators & princes to beare rule and doubtles whatsoeuer they wrest out of the old testament to make moses the author of it , yet caluin to whose iudgement the chiefest amongst them hath promised to stand in this case , saith that the pretended eldership till after the time of the captiuitie was neuer thought of , and the reason ( as m. cal●i● saith why they thought of it then ) was because it was not lawfull for them , to haue a king ; as if the gouernment by a king , which in former times they had , might haue bin graunted to thē , this institution of their sanedrim of elders , had been of no vse . so that all those scriptures out of the old testament by them alledged to this end ( as they haue alledged many ) are to small purpose ; or if they were , that gouernment were needles , in a realme where there were a king. and that sanedrim or councell of the iewes erected after their returne from babilon being seuentie elders were of the stocke of dauid , and of their former kings ; but to bring these into the church by the mistaken example of those times , cannot but be daungerous ; and the foundation being so weake , this building of theirs cannot long continew . doubtles it is not safe in wresting of scriptures to follow the streme of their owne fancies , seeing he that held that all who would be saued must goe to ierusalem , forced all places out of the scripture that gaue any testimonie to commend ierusalem either litterall or otherwise , as apparant demonstration to maintaine his error . as these men haue delt in the old testament , so in the new , what m. caluin doth expound of pastors , and preachers only , some others do wrest for the establishing of these lay elders , in their church discipline . i am sorie that men of learning that would seeme vertuous & holy , should be charged so truely with so manifold wresting of the scriptures , as in this whole matter of discipline they are by sundrie that doe write against them . let men loue and aduance their owne fancies as they thinke safe , but let the scripture not be vrged to giue strength vnto them . for doubtles heresies and erroneous opinions do no otherwise spring vp , then when the good scriptures are not well vnderstoode , and because that which is not well vnderstoode , is notwithstanding boldly affirmed to be the meaning of them . for few things hitherto haue been so fondly deuised , but the authors did pretend they had scripture for it : or else saith s. hierom , the garrulity of such persons , would hardly haue got credit ; for when through vanitie & pride men haue ingaged themselues by the broaching of new opinions , they wil rather labour to bring the scripture to yeeld vnto their fancies , then suffer their fancies to be ouerruled by them ; a fault as it is great in it selfe , so it carieth a manifold disaduantage with it , that the aduersaries of the truth , want not a couller to refuse the interpretations of such at another time , whom men of the same profession , for saith , and the sacraments , haue worthely charged to haue wronged the scriptures . it had been doubtles a greater honour to them , much better dealing with the word of god , and a course of more reason in the opinion of wisemen , that this discipline , had been commended to vs , as a politike gouernment which they found safe ; as the best deuise which necessitie in geneua , betwixt the putting out of their romish bishop , & the keeping out of the duke of sauoy did inforce vpon them ; as a platforme sutable enough for such a citie , at such a time . but to offer it to the greatest kingdomes that imbrace the truth , who happily florish vnder the prosperous gouernment of vertuous princes ; where all things are established in the church with a most auncient , apostolike , & holy order , and al this vnder the name of gods word ; it is to poyson the world with much euill , and to couer the pollicie of their first teachers , with the vnhallowed contentions of all after times . and yet for all that we can neither mislike the gouernment of our church , which alreadie we haue by bishops , nor accept theirs by elders , vntill they haue answered all such as soundly and with iudgement doe write against them . add surely i may make the same protestation which a wise man doth in this case , that if i were to leaue this life , and should speake what i thought of the present forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment at this time in the church of england , i would take it vpon my soule ( so farre as my iudgement serueth ) that it is much more apostolicall , then the gouernment of any church , that i reade of ; and if it were not for prohibitions ( such peraduenture as good intentions found out ) ( and some few hinderances of the common-law ) a gouernment without exception more holy and of greater peace . for whilst euery man will aduenture to offer vnto the church , fancies of his owne making , as h.n. and many others , saying loe here is christ , and loe there is christ , we shall stand neede to be put in minde of that caueat , goe not after them . and whereas the two forciblest reasons to giue any thing allowance in the opinion of men , is that it is warranted for the institution , and profitable for the vse : these politike maisters of the new discipline , hauing proued neither , yet doe offer both . to thinke that if we had this gouernment ( which doubtles god in his mercie hath thus long kept from vs ) that then god would blesse our victuals , and satisfie our poore with bread , that he would cloth our priests with health , and his saints should shout for ioy ; that it is best and surest for our stare ; that it would cut of contentions , and sutes of law ; that it would nourish learning ; that then there would be vnitie in the church ; that it would bring strength and victorie , and many other benefits like these ; which is experience of these that haue tried them , could as well assure , as these mens words , doubtles the church had great reason to thinke of it ; and yet these are benefits no greater , then alreadie by gods mercie , our church hath inioyed without this . but they imitate ●aith a learned and graue man of their countrie those seditious tribunes of rome who by vertue of the agrarian law bestowed the publike goods only to this end to enrich themselues ; that the bishops being ouerthrowne , they might succeede into their places . and a little after , it ought especially to be prouided , that there be not any high authoritie giuen vnto this presbyterie , whereof many things might be said , but time will reueale what yet doth lie hid . wherefore saith gualter writing to the bishop of london at that time , and touching some abuses ( as they are infinit of this new discipline ) we are carefully to be vigilant , least new heads doe bud out of the wounds of the romish hydra scarce yet subdued . the same author in a letter to bishop sands , after many troubles procured by this new discipline , i hope ( saith he ) the frame of it will in short time fall of it selfe , considering that many , who before had it in admiration , are now of themselues become wearie of it . another saith , that by the meanes of this discipline , the magistrates haue inuaded the church goods , the ministers haue little alowance , there is no respect of the studie of diuinitie . and another complaining of the disorderly frutes of this discipline saith ; if you did see the confused state of the churches of these countries , you would say that england ( and marke it for it is true ) how bad soeuer , were a paradise in comparison , to be thought ; but if these men could haue bin content , only to haue praysed their owne ; without opposition , defacing , and slaundering the gouernment of our church , we would haue been willing to haue furthered their inioying of so much happines in their owne relmes , if the peace , and prosperitie of our owne , had not been enuied by them ; whereas now we must tell them , and when we haue done , the church shall haue some to performe this dutie to the worlds end , that a discipline erected by fancie , & pollicie , consisting vpon parts vnsound , disagreeing , daungerous in themselues , chargeable to parishes , & without profit , derogatorie to princes , banishing apostolicall bishops appointed by christ , in one word a discipline new , full of crueltie , ambition , and pride , cannot be safely admitted into that church , which is seated in a kingdome , where a prince hath authoritie , both ouer the church , and the common-wealth . there is no part of it vnanswered that i know , & our purpose in this , is but only to let them see , that a church being happely planted , and gouerned ( as ours is ) they that are strangers , are charitably to thinke of vs , & those amongst our selues , ought all to be furtherances of our common peace . that sinne out of our dissentions may not grow strong , and whilest vnthankfully with israel we reiect samuel , we haue not either a gouernment that is tyrannous , or no church at all . for that prouidence which powreth downe mercies whilest mē are thankefull , raineth downe iudgements , for the peoples sinnes . let vs thē hereafter in sted of filling the world with our clamorous outcries for a new church gouernment , approach the throne of his mercie with praiers for our sinnes , that they may be pardoned . chap. ix . of archbishops and bishops . if in the generall dislike which diuers not well aduised haue had toward the ecclesiasticall state in this kingdome , things of principall and chiefe vse might haue escaped the vnreasonable and intemperate reprehension of some mouthes , neither should a thing of so great necessitie , nor a condition and estate both by example and reason so much warranted , stand in neede of any defence at this time . but seeing amongst those ambitious humors ( which vnder pretence of an equalitie more then is fit , aspire vnto a tyrannous authoritie more then is safe ) there is nothing lesse willingly indured , then the title and authoritie of bishops , which by establishing an order doth frame all parts of the church to a due obedience and by making seuerall dignities ( which for order are different ) do impose a vertuous and humble obedience euen amongst them , whose ministerie and ordination is all one ; we cannot but thinke it a thing vnreasonable in those which demaund it at our hands , and great folly in vs if we yeeld vnto it , that an office of that vse , of that lawfulnes and continuance , should be remoued as tyrannous and antichristian in gods church , onely because it pleaseth the wisedome and violence of some men , so to haue it . now as to thinke that the state of the church , might either continew better , or continew at all without these , is but the strong fancies of some , which ouerloue themselues ; so to maintaine after so long practise of the most auncient churches , that archbishops and bishops , both for name , title , and authoritie are lawfull , and to the well gouerning of the church necessarie , is but to confesse that order , must as wel be a safegard to the church , as the common-wealth ; and that subordination of men in authoritie , can be well wanting in neither ; but if in either , surely in that societie farre lesse , where disorders in manners are not much fewer ( considering the number of persons ) and the errors in opinion are more vsuall , and more daungerous ; and none of these possible with any conuenience to bee remedied but by this meanes . in regard whereof being neither safe to trust all without rule , nor all with authoritie to rule , apostolicall ordination , reason , the custome of all churches auncient , and well gouernd , and lastly nature it selfe , doth ordaine archbishops in their prouinces , as bishops also in their dioces , and both in their places , and vnder the prince , for to rule the church . and herein , we may boldly say without offence , that the causes of displeasure conceiued against bishops ( how vehemently soeuer they are followed ) are surely lesse reasonable , then against any one thing which they doe mislike ; seeing the vse of all other things may either be touched in show , with some coullerable pretence of fault , or the not vsing warranted with some likely excuse , whereas in this , the greeuances ( if there be any ) that are iust , are in the persons not in the office , and the remouing them away , must leaue a passage to a disorderly confusion , and possesse the church with that fatall disease of all societies , want of order , whereby for the present she must needes doe many things confusedly , and doubtles in short time miserably perish . so that to make ambition , and couetousnes , the originall of this honor ; and tyrannie ouer their brethren , to giue continuance vnto it ; is to make the best things in the outward pollicies of the church , to proceede from the worst authors , and to lay too great an imputation to their charge , whom in all reason , by the benefit of this gouernment we ought to acknowledge , as our spirituall fathers , for deriuing the gospell vnto vs , and by a continuall succession euen from the apostles hands . the best warrants that we haue for the execution of our spirituall functions , to vs the greatest calling vpon earth , and to the world the hallowed and blessed instruments of all happines , which being imployed to that end , it must needes be an intollerable presumption in any to vndertake the same , but by authoritie and power giuen them in lawfull manner ; for the same god which is no way deficient vnto man in things necessarie , and hath giuen vs to that end the light of his heauenly truth , without which we must needes haue wandred in continuall darknes , hath in the like abundance of mercies , ordained certaine to attend vpō the due execution of requisit parts , and offices therein prescribed for the good of the whole world : which men thereunto assigned doe hold their authoritie from him , whether they be such as himselfe imediatly , or as the church in his name , inuesteth : it being neither possible for all , nor for euery man without distinction conucnient , to take vpon him a charge of so great importance . the power of this ministerie translareth out of darknes into glorie ; it raiseth men from the earth , and bringeth god himselfe downe from heauen ; by blessing visible elements it maketh them inuisible grace . it giueth daily the holy ghost . it hath to dispose of that flesh which was giuen for the life of the world ; and that blood which was powred out to redeeme soules . when it powreth out malediction vpon the heads of the wicked they perish , whē it reuoketh the same they reuiue . o wretched blindnes faith one if we admire not so great power , more wretched if we consider it aright , and notwithstanding imagine that any but god can bestowe it . it is a power which alone ought to make the authors of it to man vnder god deare vnto vs ; which neither prince nor potentate king nor caesar on earth can giue . yet neither is it being duly waied , in the bishops successors to the apostles which bestow this , nor in those who are desirous to enter into that calling , any ambitiō ( as some men surmise ) seeing such reputation it hath in the eye of this present world , that both neede rather incoragement to beare contempt , then deserue blame as men desirous to aspire higher . now because men dying there must be a continuall supply into this calling , and that those who had first the authoritie to ordaine ( i meane the apostles ) were mortall ; their care doubtles must extend it selfe thus far , though they could not indew men with the same measure of grace which themselues had , yet they should ( and so doubtles did ) impart the same power to ordaine which was giuen to them ; that neither men might rush into it without admission , nor the power of admission be granted to all , nor the church bee left destitute of so great a blessing . and because in the executiō of holy things , where the persons put in trust are but men , discord & disorder vsually doe breake in ; the wisdome of god thought it necessarie , that amongst them who for their ministerie were equal , an inequalitie for order , and superioritie to command should be granted ; that by this meanes order and vnion should both be preserued in christs church . they that most dissent in the kinde of gouernment , doubtles will confesse with nazianzen , that order is the mother and preseruer of all things . which if it concerne all persons , and ages in the church of christ ( as surely it doth ) the gouernment must not cease with the apostles , but so much of that authoritie must remaine to them , who frō time to time , are to supply that charge , & doubtles to that end haue succeeded in the apostles roomes . for we easily see that equality doth breed factions , and therefore wise men to suppresse the seedes of dissentions haue made one aboue the rest . and the best deuisers of the new presbyterie do hold it necessarie , that one chiefe in place and dignitie , moderate , & rule euery action , with that right which is allowed him by gods law . for surely a multitude vngouerned , must needes be easily confused , and there cannot well be obedience , where all are equall ; where shepheards leade sundrie waies , it is hard for the sheepe to know whom to follow ; and if no man can serue two maisters , which haue equall authoritie ouer him , and perhaps command contrarie things ( for whilest they agree , though diuers , they are but one ) then surely the church ought not to be put to this hazard , by multitudes equally ruling in one place , seeing to dissent is vsuall in all places , and if not , yet in all persons it is casuall ; whereas the wisedome of the church in them that gouerne , must as wel looke vnto that which may happen , as vnto that which alreadie is . now if this were the principal meanes to preuent schismes and dissentions in the primitiue church , whē the graces of god were far more aboundant & eminent then now they are ; nay if the twelue were not lik to agree except there had bin one chiefe amongst thē ; for ( saith s. hierom ) amongst the twelue one was therfore chosen , that a chiefe being appointed occasion of dissention might be preuented ; and if euery presbytery by gods ordinance must haue a ruler ( as themselues confesse ) how can they thinke that equalitie would keepe all the pastors of the world in peace and vnitie ? or that the bishops of a whole prouince or kingdome , could meete , conferre , & conclude , as often as neede requireth , vnlesse their assemblies were moderated , and ruled by some one ? for in all societies , authoritie ( which cannot be where all are equall ) must procure vnitie , and obedience , if vertue will not . now seeing that all men may easily erre , & that no errors are so daungerous as those which concerne religion , the church should be in a far worse case then the meanest common-wealth ( nay almost then a den of thieues ) if it were left destitute of meanes , either to conuince heresies , or to suppresse them ; yea though there were neither helpe , nor assistance , of the christian magistrate ; without which it were not possible for truth & equitie any long time to harbour amongst the sons of men . the remedie which in these cases the primitiue church had , & when occasion was offered vsed against heresie and iniurie , she deriued as well from the promise made by christs owne words , as from the apostles example in the like case . christ willing them that were grieued by their brethren , after the first and second admonition to tell it to the church . and addeth for direction and confirmation of all religious assemblies and conferences ; where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am i in the middest of them ; and whatsoever you shall binde on earth shall be bound in heauen , and whatsoeuer ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heauen . now whatsoeuer is ment here by the name of church , in the reasonable exposition of any , to me it is all one , to prooue this order ; that from priuate admonitiō they went to witnesses , and from them to assemblies ; and seeing there must be an end of controuersies amongst men ( vnlesse we will plucke vp by the rootes all charitie and right ) when neither priuate perswasion , not frendly mediation can appease parties that violently contend , what other order could be prescribed , but a iudicial hearing and determining of things in question ? now because christ did not set the sword to be the generall , and perpetuall rule to gouerne his church ( for then without a prince there could be no church , & so consequently there was none either in the apostles time or three hundred yeeres after ) ( though , where they beleeue , the defence and maintenance of the church is committed to their charge ) it must of necessitie follow that either there is no iudge ( which were the vtter subuersion of all peace ) when the christian magistrate is wanting , or els the pastors and stewards of christs church to whom this care is committed , must assemble together , and with mutuall conference performe those duties to the church in generall , which otherwise they are bound to do to each particular place and person . by gods law what obedieuce and reuerence the father may expect from his owne childe , the same or greater , must all beleeuers yeeld to the fathers of their faith ; the one begetteth vs to this life , the other to a life that is much better . those then whom christ hath placed to be watchmen and leaders , the light and salt of his church , must not onely warne and guide , but also lighten and season in their measure that whole body ; for when all other failes , this onely is left to clense the house of god from vessels of dishonour , yea when there were no beleeuing magistrates to assist the church , this onely was left , as the best meanes ; and after when christian princes began to protect the truth , they neuer had nor can haue safer direction amongst men , then by the synods of wise and godly bishops . thus a synod at antioch about threescore yeeres before the councell of nice , condemned and deposed paulus samosatenus , for heresie ; and when he would not yet yeeld to the church , but keepe it by violence , vpon complaint to aurelianus the emperor ( though he were a heathen ) samosatenus was with extreame shame driuen from the church by the worldly prince . all countries in all ages , haue had the benefit of this , not as a thing arbitrarie and left free to those that peraduenture were careles of the churches welfare , but prescribed by sundrie councels ; as nice , antioch , constantinople , chalcedon ; and commaunded by the imperiall lawes , in this manner ; that all the ecclesiasticall state , and sacred rules , may with more diligence be obserued , we require ( saith the emperor ) euery archbishop , patriarch , and metropolitan to call vnto him once or twise euery yeere , the bishops that are vnder him in the same prouince , and throughly to examine all the causes , which bishops , clarkes , or monkes , haue amongst themselues ; and to determine them , so as whatsoeuer is trespassed by any person against the canons , may be reformed . so that wee must either cleane reiect synods ( a thing doubtles of no small daunger as the times may fall out ) and make the presbyters in euery parish supreme iudges , or else admit some ( which be no other but the bishops ) both to call and to moderate these meetings ; for in all those synods which continued in the church ( euen when she mas most sharpely pursued by the sworde from the death of the apostles to the raigne of constantine ) they were assembled and gouerned by the bishops of the chiefe , and mother churches , and cities , in euery prouince ; who by the auncient councels were called metropolitanes . and after when princes came to imbrace the faith , the best meanes they could deuise to procure peace , and aduance religion , was by their lawes to referre ecclesiasticall causes to ecclesiasticall iudges . and least they should be long in strife , they charged the metropolitane to assemble the bishops of his prouince twise euery yeere , & there to examine , and order , what matters of doubt should arise , which happely might disturbe the churches peace . thus the synode of rome , called by cornelius against nouatus , consisted of threescore bishops , and many others of the clergie . in the councels of rome , vnder hilarius and gregorie , where foure and thirtie presbyters subscribed after two and twentie bishops ; infinit are the examples in this kind , which teach vs that neither the church , at any time was , or in deed● can , safely be without tempests , if synods want ; nor synods can be tightly ordered , if the metropolitans and bishops should be wanting in them . seeing then they haue this vse if this were all to make that societie able with order to suppresse heresies and redresse wrongs ) ( without which doubtles the church of all assemblies were worst gouerned ) it ought not to seeme vnreasonable to any , that a thing so necessarie , and auncient , should with honour , and reuerence , be retained amongst vs. but least the name of bishops , should be offensiue to any ( as some haue thought it onely the ambitious title of a tyrannous gouernment ) these that would seeme moderate aduisers to equalitie and humilitie , in this case , must giue vs leaue to tell them , that the name is auncient the office needefull , and both so warrantable , that they must needes be thought ( at the least ) malicious enuiers of the peace and prosperitie of gods church , who are desirous or can be content , that order obserued in the apostles time , and those churches which were purest , and next vnto them , should be banished as antichristian from amongst vs , only because it is the pleasure of those men , to admit no superiors . for if the name of archbishop be not to be found in scripture , considering the thing it selfe is of necessarie vse in gods church , they haue as little reason to except against it as if homonsion were not warrantable , because arius gaue occasion , that the nicen councell did first inuent it . many names are inuented since the apostles time , and yet both lawfully , and necessarily vsed ; for these men haue been told long since , that the authoritie and the thing whereof the archbishop hath his name , was in saint paules time , and therefore the name lawfull ; and if it were not , yet both might bee lawfull , seeing they appertaine to the externall pollicie , and regiment of the church ; which according to time , place , persons , and other circumstances , is not tyed of necessitie , to be alwaies one . and surely those that mislike this ouer proude title ( as they tearme it ) haue least cause : seeing they of the discipline challenge as great iurisdiction ouer their parishes , and as lofty dominion ouer prince and nobles , as euer any pope did ouer the whole church . and if clement ( whom polydore alledgeth to that end ) said that peter in euery prouince appoynted one archbishop , whom all other bishops of the same prouince should obey , i see no reason why any man for that , should so farre forget both modestie and charitie ( as some haue done ) to call him a hell hound , a naturall sonne of satan ( surely naturall he was not ) and the sworne souldier of antichrist . i wish these to remember , that the slaunder of authors , is no good answere , when better reasons can be alledged then onely to say , that they say it . but if they thinke the title vnlawfull ( as some of them write ) because the scripture doth appropriate it to our sauiour christ , i wish them to remember , that if archshepheard and archbishop be all one , then the name is to bee found in scriptures : and that names proper vnto god , as shepheard , light of the world , and such like ; may be in a diuers sence , and are often communicated with other men . hereunto we may adde , that the famous councell of nice , ( which by all men of wisdome is reuerenced , esteemed , and imbraced as the soundest and best testimony next the scriptures ) doth not onely allowe of the name , but also of the office of metropolitane and archbishop ; determining him to be no bishop , which is made without the consent of the metropolitane ; and to shew that this name and office was more auncient , than that famous councell , the canon saith , let that olde custome be obserued , alluding peraduenture to those canons which passe vnder the apostles names . neither was this name or title so strange imediatly after the apostles time , that volusianus was affeard to say , that diomysius areopagita was by s. paul , made archbishop of athens , or erasmus to call titus archbishop of crete , and eusebius giueth the authoritie to iohn the euangelist ; whose suruiuing the rest , brought this benefit vnto the church , that for consecrating of bishops and other vses , he was as archbishop , or metropolitane to the whole church . for in saint cyprians iudgement , heresies and schismes haue risen from no other occasion then from this , that the priest of god is not obeyed , neither one priest for the time in the church , and one iudge for the time in stead of christ thought vpon , to whom , if the whole brotherhoode would be obedient , according to gods teaching , no man would moue any thing against the colledge of priests . this speech of that auncient father , was to comfort cornelius , shewing , that faintnes in that case was to betray the church , and that sects and schismes , must needes arise , where the authoritie of bishops is despised . for this place was not to confirme the authoritie of the church of rome , but as the best expounde him , that hee would haue an archbishop in euery prouince to beare rule ouer the rest of the cleargy . for hee that attempteth any thing in the church , without the bishop , breaketh peace and confoundeth good order ; and cyprian being bishop of carthage , had the charge and ouersight of all the churches in africke , in numidia , and in both the mauritanes ; and not only these , but ( as gregorie nazianzene saith ) the whole east parts ; for the which cause illiricus doth call him metropolitane . so that if herein wise men , had onely inuented what was fit , and not followed what was before them , their action had not been without warrant , seeing in the outward pollicie of gouerning the church , where precepts and examples are wanting , it is not forbidden for those that come after , as well to be examples to others , as to follow the examples of such as haue gone before them . but if in the first planters of the church ( which both in comparison of the rest were fewe , and blessed with graces farre more excellent than any in our time ) inequalitie was allowed , and that allowance without fault , it must needes in all reason follow , that the authoritie of archbishop was not thought so dangerous as now , to the gouerning of christs church ; wherein if either their maintenance bee greater , or their outward honor more in these christian times of peace , then could be expected amongst pagans ( and they tyrants ) no man can in reason , or ought with out blame , to oppugne these , who will not be thought an enemie to the former ; seeing the times and names being diuers , the authoritie notwithstanding is all one . but it is the vnnaturall fault of this age , through the sides of those whom peraduenture in some priuate respects we mislike , to wound euen our fathers in religion , whom we ought to honor . but seeing these men doubtles are much wiser , who take vpon them to be the reformers of our church , then that they should be offended with the names , where the things are lawfull ; it is surely to be thought in all reason , that the superioritie of bishops , is not by them accounted so great a fault , as that any amongst the clergie , whose office and ministerie is all one , should by a speciall name aboue the rest of theirbrethren , be called bishops . as if to ouer see that flocke committed to their charge , were a dutie belonging , and by our sauiour imposed vpon them onely . but because the names of things haue so many artificers , by whom they wore first made ; but moe who after haue vsed them to an other sence ; it shall not so much concerne vs , to inquire what in the beginning was the difference betwixt bishop and presbyter , as to learne afterward what the church ment when these names expressed those persons which for office and ministerie of word and sacraments , not for order and iurisdiction , were all one . the clergie of the gospell , were at the first after the apostles time , either presbyters or deacons : for those who aduisedly at the first did impose names vnto things , had either regarde vnto that which naturally was most proper , or if peraduenture to some other speciallitie , to that which is sensiblie most eminent in the thing signified : and therefore what better title , could be giuen to all that w●re imployed in this worke , then the reuerend name of presbyters or fatherly guides ? for a presbyter according to the proper meaning of the new testament , is he vnto whom our sauiour christ , hath communicated the power of spirituall procreation . out of the twelue patriarchs issued the whole multitude of israell , according to the flesh ; and according to the ministerie of heauenly birth , our lords apostles we all acknowledge to be the patriarches of his whole church . s. iohn therefore beheld sitting about the throne of god in heauen , foure and twentie presbyters ; the one halfe fathers of the old , the other of the new ierusalem , in which respect the apostles likewise gaue themselues the same title , albeit that name were not proper , but common vnto them with others . for of presbiters some were greater , some lesse in power ; and that by our sauiours owne appointment ; the greater they which receiued fulnes of spirituall power , the lesse they to whom lesse was graunted . the apostles peculiar charge was to publish the gospell of christ vnto all nations , and to deliuer his ordinances receiued by immediat reuelation from himselfe ; ( which preeminence excepted ) to all other offices and duties , incident vnto their order , it was in them to ordaine and consecrate , whomsoeuer they thought meete ; euen as our sauiour did himselfe assigne seuentie disciples of his owne , inferior presbyters , whose commission notwithstanding , to preach and baptise , was the same which the apostles had . but when time , and obseruation , had made a difference in the church of these two , euery bishop being a presbyter , but not euery presbyter a bishop , the church condemned it as the heresie of acrius , to hold that a presbyter and a bishop were all one . the bishops ( as epiphanius reasoneth ) begot fathers in the church , but the presbyters onely begot sonnes . for the priests did chose ( saith saint hier●● ) one amongst themselues , whom they placing in a higher degree , called a bishop . for vnlesse ( saith the same father ) the chiefe authoritie were giuen to one , there would be as many schismes as priests . so that their collection out of saint ambrose , and hierom , is so much the more strange , who thinke that bishops , and presbyters did not differ , in the apostles time . it must at least be an imitation of their pride , who in former time haue troubled the church with the like errors . cornelius bishop and martyre , long before the councell of nice , reporting to fabius bishop of antioch , the originall of nouatus schisme , saith ; this iolly inquisitor of the gospell , vnderstandeth not , that there ought to be but one bishop in that catholike church , in which hee knoweth there are fourtie and sixe presbyters . neither haue there wanted rules , whereby if it please them , they might easily make a difference betwixt these two ; the presbyters were many in euery church , of whom the presbytery consisted ; bishops were alwaies singular , one in a citie ; and noe moe except an intrusion , which made a schisme . this singularitie descended , from the apostles , and their schollers in all the famous churches of the world , by a chare of succession , and continueth to this day , where abomination or desolation ( that is heresie or violence ) haue not broake it off . the second signe of episcopall power , was imposition of hands , to ordaine presbyters , and bishops ; for as pastors had some to assist them in their charge , which were presbyters , so were they to haue others to succeede , in their places , which were bishops . and this right by imposing of hands to ordaine presbyters , and bishops , was deriued at first from the apostles , not vnto presbyters but bishops onely . a thing continuing for this fifteene hundred yeare , without example or instance to the contrarie ; and hath onely found resistance in our age ; which surely in my opinion , cannot be ignorance so much in them , as willingnes to oppugne the gouernment of our church ; seeing there haue been few churches of account , through all christendome , that had not ( as may be shewed ) bishops and presbiters both at the same time . but austin is most plaine who writing to one that was but a presbyter , saith , thou shalt be a presbyter as thou art , and hereafter when god will thou shall be a bishop . this poynt is learnedly obserued by that reuerend and worthie bishop , whose labored defence , may shorten our trauell in this poynt . now besides these , many other things were peculiar to bishops , by the authoritie of the canons , and custome of the church ; as reconciling of penitents , confirmation of infan●s , dedication of churches , and such like , which were as saint hierom saith , rather to the honor of priesthoode , then to the necessitie of any law . now if any man thinke this office superfluous in the church , and of no vse ; let him well consider before he censure them , what it is to see the church continually stored , with sound , and able pastours to watch ouer their soules ; to take care that the flocke of christ be rightly taught , and soberly guided ; to keepe both presbyters , and people , from schisme , heresie , and impietie ; to direct in times of daunger ; to determine doubts , without troubling the whole prouince ; and if he shall thinke either these needles to be done , or lawfull and fit to be done by any other , we could ( peraduenture ) thinke it more tollerable , tha● an ordination , so auncient , and so much warranted , neuer interrupted in the orderly gouernment of any church since the apostles time , should notwithstanding be remooued , as a calling tyrannous , and antichristian , onely to content the humorous fancies of these men . but ( doubtles ) that which reasonably they mislike in this case , is , that men called to the office of the ministerie ( a function meerely spirituall ) and ordained to the dispensation of heauenly graces , should so farre either forget the vertuous example of our sauiour , or the humilitie of such whom they desire to succeede , that swelling with ambition , they renew the contention long sincé controuled in the disciples of christ , which should bee the greatest ; and are content if not to affect , yet to accept of those ciuill imployments , which belong vnto the princes counsell ; whereby not onely they are made idle , and hindred from that dutie , which the church requireth , but are puft vp , with those lordly titles which are directly vnlawfull , and without warrant . now to preuent this , we admit synodes ( say they ) and some to gather , and gouerne those assemblies ; but for feare of ambition , we would haue that priuiledge to goe round by course , to all the pastors of euery prouince . where men are irregular , we will not aske them , either for reason , or example for that they doe ; but a chiefe man amongst them , confesseth , that this going round by course , to gouerne the church , doth maintaine disorder , and faction ; and ambition is not at all decreased by it ; and the choosing of one , to continew chiefe for his life , began at alexandria , from the euangelist saint marke , sixe yeeres before peter and paul were martyred ; sixe and thirtie before the death of saint iohn ; in the which there is nothing that can , or ought to be misliked . this as it is true , so it is warranted with much reason ; for vnlesse we suppose ( a thing surely not likely , if possible ) all in a presbytery to be men without fault , a power to doe harme vnto christs church , must by this curcular reuolution , fall into their hands , whom wisedome of election , would hardly haue called to that place . besides , what men shall worthily suffer , whilest they are inferiors , there is some likelyhoode , they will offer the like , when they doe commaund . neither is this to quench ambition ( as they thinke ) but to kindle a farre greater , in the whole clergie . for what we giue vnto one experienced of yeeres , tried in gouernment , freed for the most part from the passions of young men , these without difference propound to all . and thus they cure this feuer of ambition , by infecting many ; as if diseases were therefore lesse , because moe were sicke . for what cannot be inioyed without pride , is not easily expected without sinne ; fruition , and expectation of one and the same thing , are so neere , that neither can be vertu●●s where both are not . neither doe we giue vnto archbis●ops or bishops , power or honor by gods law , but what their people must needes yeeld vnto their pastors and presbyters , if they will haue any . we are not to limit princes whom they shall vse in councell , or to whom they shall commit the execution of their lawes , especially such as are made for the churches good , seeing we finde that god hath blest those princes and kingdomes most , where vertuous bishops haue been admitted to the princes councell ; wherein surely they haue brought a farre greater benefit to the peace and prosperitie of the church , then in reason they could by any other imployment besides . neither was it a meanes for to be idle , either in caluin , or beza ( both of them fit men for that place ) that they were both admitted as councellors of that state . it cannot chuse , but bee great intemperancie in them , who haue so dishonorably laboured to deface that dignitie , so auncient and of such vse in the church of god , as also to wound euen the best , and the worthyest in that place with tearmes farre vnbeseeming , as if their vngouerned humors , had fully resolued to belch out poyson , against all that were thought excellent . it pleaseth one of them to censure them all thus ; archbishops , and bishops are vnlawfull , vnnaturall , false , and basterdly gouernors of the church ; and the ordinances of the diuell . another saith , they are in respect of their places enemies to god. much hath the vnwise and immodest dealings of sundrie in our church , labored to dishonor so honorable and so great an office ; experience hath taught vs the good of them , and to these we onely make this answere ; that wee are sorrie to see them , so skilfull , and so willing to speake euill . but doubtles it is loue to our present state , which hath made them so zealous in this cause ; for ( saith one ) if we be sworne to her maiesties most lawfull supremacie ouer all persons , and espie in our church a lordly prelacie , a thing brought into the church by humane inuention , by meanes weereof it is apparant that the pope of rome hath climed about all states both ecclesiasticall and ciuill , if now , our desire extend it selfe , that our lordly dignities , and power of our bishops might be examined by holy scripture , and brought backe a degree or twaine neerer to the apostolike practise , and christs institution , that so all occasions might be cut off hereafter , that this climing vsurpation , might neuer take holde vpon england any more , are we troublers of the state ? doubtles we are . if it were not a thing possible to make a difference betwixt the clyming vsurpation of the church of rome , and the lawfull prelacie , how lordly so euer established in our church , i doubt not but all our bishops , would cast themselues at his maiesties feete , and intreate his highnes to vnburthen them of all that honour , which hetherto they haue held , iniurious to his supremacie , and contrarie to the scriptures , and the apostles practise . to men of vnderstanding things could not bee thus odiously compared , that are moste vnlike . the pope challengeth authoritie ouer all christendome , so doe not our archbishops ; the pope exalteth himselfe aboue kings and princes , but our archbishops , with reuerence and humilitie , acknowledg their subiection ; and more dutifully ( i doubt not ) then those , who thus carefully are fearefull , of their clyming . the pope saith , that to bee subiect vnto him , is of necessitie to saluation , our archbishops acknowledge no such thing ; and as their limits of gouernment are farre vnlike , so the manner of their gonernment , is farre more lawfull ; the one being an vsurpation , which ambition sought out , superstition and pollicie haue holden vp ; the other a necessarie authoritie , which schismes and dissentions in the church inuented , the apostles vsed , all antiquitie followed , and the peace of the church did impose vpon them . so that one of the most modest , and most learned , that seemeth to fauour the cause of discipline , maketh it a principall point of the ecclesiasticall gouernment , that the inferior clergie in things honest , bee obedient to the bishop , and the bishop to the metropolitan ; expressing the vse of that which others vehemently mislike , and acknowledging the names , and subordination of both . but as it is an imputation , in their opinion , to the archbishops that their place and authoritie is like the popes , so it is a blemish to our bishops , in the iudgement of these men , that for learning and vertue , they are not like vnto those holy fathers of the church that haue gone before them . we dare not take vpon vs to thinke , that our times are better , and more fruitefull in vertue then other were , or that the bishops of our land , ( a thing to be wished ) are all of them without fault ; but seeing it pleaseth some to compare them thus , i hope it shall neither be dishonour to the vertuous memories of those that are dead , nor bee thought a flattery towards those that doe liue , if we say ( considering we may say it with much truth ) that for soundnesse of doctrine , honestie of life , and the moderate vse of externall things , they are not inferiour , to the most reuerend of those bishops , that haue been before them . for doctrine , wee are loth to rippe vp the errors that the anncient bishops were infected with ; papias bishop of ierusalem ( who liued in ignatius and policarpus time ) held the error of a thousand yeere after the resurection , wherein the kingdome of christ , should here remaine vpon earth . most of the auncient fathers , were infected with this opinion . saint cyprian that same clere fountaine , as saint hierom calles him , failed in the opinion of rebaptisation ; diuers both of the greeke and latin church , were spotted with the errors about freewill , merits , inuocation of saints ; many things might bee alleadged in this kinde ( if it were any vertue to rippe vp their faults , whom we ought to honor ) where as i hope the aduersaries to our bishops , will confesse , that neuer any companie of bishops , since the apostles time , taught , and held such sound doctrine , in all points as the bishops of england at this day . for the second which is honestie of life , euery age hath some imperfections amongst all conditions , & the most worthie are not free from the slanderers tongue . in the councell of nice , in the presence of the emperor , the bishops libeld one against another ; contentions ouer eager & bitter , were betwixt epiphanius and chrisostome , both very worthy and very reuerend bishops , betwixt s. austin , and s. hierom , whereas doubtles , if some zealous for discipline had held their peace , the church of england had beene as hierusalem a citie , built at vnitie in it selfe . now for the last , which is the moderate imployment of externall things , vve recken it amongst the greatest felicityes , of our time , that when the expectation of greedy cormorants , was big with hope , of the deuouring the riches and reuenews that the church had , that euen then , the conscionable zeale of the prince , by vertuous and wise lawes , manacled their hands , whose desires were vnsatiat , and their harts vnhallowed , and left vnto the church , a rich and honorable patrimony , for indowment , whereby worthy rulers , may not want double honor , labour may haue her merit , and religion may bee able to releeue the poore . heerein if any couetously doe retaine , or riotously mispend , what vertuous authority confirmed vnto better vses , ( a thing which i hope no man can accuse in the bishops of our church ) let them amend their faults , and not their offence be made , a cloke to those monsters , that thirst with desire for to robbe the church . more perticulerly amongst the rest , of him who being the worthiest amongst the clergie , and worthylie in the highest place , is by an vntemperate spirit with vnholy sacriledge , said of all the bishops in the sea of canterburie , to haue done most harme , and that none had so ambitious , and aspiring a minde , as hee ; no not cardinall wolsey ▪ none so proud as he no not stephen gardiner ; none so tyrannicall as hee , no not bonner . i may say truely of him , that if the church gouernment of this land , which he defended with great iudgement with his pen , hee had not with as great authority protected for the space of this twenty yeres in the place of an archbishop ( which god graunt for the good of his church may continew still ) doubtles contention , ignorance , and atheisme , long since had ouer-runne the church . of whom , because it is neither honour to him to bee commended by mee , nor disgrace to bee reproched by them , i will say considering his iustice in gouernment , his care in prouiding for the clergie , his wisedome in counselling , his integritie in preferring ▪ his diligence in preaching , his grauitie in behauiour , his humilitie in conuersing , his care to the church , his zeale to religion , his courage to the truth as theodosius spake of s. ambrose , i know onelie ambrose , who is most worthy to be● called a bishop . but not to labour any further in this cause , ( which hath had so many of singuler worthy men ab●e to defend it much better ) wee say this calling so much misliked , serueth to a greater perfection , to a fitnes in action , and to a singuler ornament , in gouerning the church . for the first the fulnes of grace , which is in the heads of the church distilleth as by seuerall wayes , to the singuler benefit of all parts , whilst hee hath giuen some to be apostles , some to bee prophets , some to bee euangelists , some to bee pastors , and doctors , for the consummation and perfection of his church , for the fitnes in action , the church hauing diuers imployments , as well for gouernment , as doctrine , requireth and alloweth seuerall ordinations , to serue these . let no man therefore presume to vnderstand aboue that which is meete , to vnderstand , but that he vnderstand according to sobrietie , as god hath delt to euery man , the measure of faith . for as wee haue many members in one bodie , and all members haue not one office , so wee being many , are one bodie in christ , and euery one anothers members . last of all for ornament ; that atheists , vnbeleeuers , may wonder and bee in loue , with the comely and beautifull gouernment of christs church , as the queene of saba was with the order of salomons house , for in a great house are not onely vessels of gold , and ●f siluer , but of wood and earth , some for honour , and some vnto dishonor : vnitie and varietie , are the ornaments of the church of christ ; vnitie of faith , charitie , and peace ; varietie of offices and degrees , and these saith the apostle for the repairing of the saints , for the work of the ministrie , & for the edification of the body of christ ; for if the whole body were ancare ? wher were the seeing , if the whole were an eie ? where were the heating ? but now hath god disposed the members euery one of them in the body at his owne pleasure ; for if they were all one member , where were the body ? and who are these , that they should mislike what example , authoritie and experience , haue found sufficient . chap. x. of ministers their office and learning . if the passage from earth to heauen , were either not needefull at all , or possible to bee performed ordinarilie by any other meanes , then a vertuous meditation betwixt god and man , then peraduenture instruments of best vse , for the defects of this life , were wholly to bee regarded , and the vtter want of the clergies seruice , were as lawfull in the best kingdomes , as the contempt of their persons , is vsuall and common with the worst subiects . but seeing vniuersall corruption , is the truest inscription of mankinde , and holinesse to the lord is the great title , that god hath , that man by that power may bee made like vnto him that did first make him , hee hath appointed for the performance of this worke , holy times , holy places , holy things , and holy persons ; all chiefely to this end , that as hee is himselfe so man likewise by these might bee made holie . as if the same puritie which could not endure those blessed spirits , once stained to continew in a place of blisse , but cast them down , did lesse reasonablie allow , that creature ( whose greatest happines peraduenture was but vpon earth ) to be carried vp to heauen ▪ into those ioyes , vnles redeemed by his son , and sanctified by his holy spirit , and by both these by the seruice and ministerie of men , and not angels , darkenesse were made light , rebellion obedience , the children of wrath the sonnes of an infinit loue , enmitie reconsiled , and made peace , and lastly sinfull men were become holy . so that the summe of their dutie , whose labours are imployed in this kinde , is onely to honour god , and to saue m●n . and their difference from all the world besides , is principally this , that being a seuerall portion of men , consecrated vnto the seruice of the most high , in things wherewith others may not meddle , as the peculiar lot of the lord himselfe , they are a di●uict order , not vnfitlie expressed by the name of clergie . whose spirituall power , consisting in the execution of holy things , properly is conuersant in the affaires of god. now as no kingdome can stand without religion ( wherein though they erre yet a religion they must hold ) so no religion can in seuerall duties , bee possiblie performed amongst men , where there are not with some fitnesse instruments allotted to that vse . and heerein christianitie hath builded a liberall maintenance , in this land , to those that are now gouernours in the church of christ , where blind superstition , laid the foundation for the priests of those idols , which the heathen worshipped . as for the persons imployed in this action , hee fitted those likewise in a celestiall manner , proportioned with his owne working ; who as in no sort , he tooke vpon him the angels nature , but tooke on him the seede of abraham , so hee vsed in this , the ministrie of men not of angels , because where weakenesse from aboue is able to receiue strength , there the exelentest creatures , and the best meanes , are not all one ; amazement out of feare , making our capacities more dull where our teachers are too glorious , and charitie not to bee so thankefull , when wee are not indebted to men of our owne nature nor our preachers are clothed with the same infirmities , that wee are . this being the greatest reason , why prophanesse doth scorne , and wisedome despise , what simplicitie and humilitie doe both worship . yet the course of instruction serueth to teach all , that the waies in these things which god and man vseth are not both alike . neither was this office ( though his worke ) befitting the maiestie of god himselfe , seeing we are apt to contemne that presence ( how glorious soeuer ) if it bee common , or to tremble at the brightnesse of so great a power , if it bee not common . in which respect , that wisedome which knew best , how most fitlie to prouide for 〈◊〉 weakenesse , did sometime ( though seldome ) in a cloud , in a fire , in the shape of a man , appeare vnto his own people , sometime with moses he spake face to face , yet graunted the desire of his fearefull seruants , when they spake to moses , talk● thou with vs , and wee will heare , but let not god talke with vs least wee die . this wisedome of theirs , hauing approbation from god himselfe ; i haue heard the voice of the words of this people , which they haue spoken vnto thee , they haue well said , all that th●y haue spoken ; oh that there were such an heart in them to feare mee , and to keepe all my commandements alway , that it might goe well with them , and with their children for euer . but to the sonne of god , when hee became man , so being made fittest , both to do , and to suffer for vs , the voice from heauen gaue this testimonie heare him . as if the same power which by religion purposed to bring man from earth to heauen , found no instrument fitter for this vse , then onely the seruice of man himself nothing being so comfortable to vs , as that voice of the apostles to the men of listra , wee are euen men subiect to the like passions that yee bee and preach vnto you , that yee should turne from these vaine things , vnto the liuing god , which made heauen and earth , and the sea , and all things that in them are ; this maketh the church to go● boldlie to the throne of grace , that she may receiue mercie , and finde grace to help in time of need . thus al things which are from god , are sodred , as it wer together with so much art and loue , causing a mutuall assistance that the lowest of mankinde , are appointed to receiue from the nearest vnto themselues , what the mercie and the influence of the highest yeeldeth , wherein as those whom god imployeth in this busines , beeing embassadours receiue commission onely from him , whose inward affaires they menage , hee being the father of spirits and soules the purchase of his owne sonne , and thereby may challenge of the children of the church honor and respect aboue other men , so doth the church likewise require vertuous abiliments , matched with good learning at their hands ; heereof they are fitly remembred by that vrim and thummim , vpon aarons brest , and by those names of watchmen , lights , salt , guides , and such like , which the scripture doth giue vnto them . requiring in all ( yet accepting though not excusing a lesse measure ) in some sort an ability sufficient to informe the church . the small difference in this kinde from the common sort , in some of those ages that haue beene before vs , gaue men occasion to thinck and say , that the laitie and the clergie were all one . nay diuers amongst vs , haue laid this vntrue accusation vpon our church , ( with what conscience and honestie the world may iudge ) as if our land , onely of all those kingdomes that are reformed , were not carefull , to haue a learned ministrie , but wer absolutely content , with those persons , who for the discharge of this dutie , could but onely reade . let them first vnderstand what we say , and then let the world bee our iudge , if wee say true . doubtlesse if the heathen required in those that were their priests , that they should bee able for knowledge to performe those duties , of counsell and deuotion which others could not , let no man think but that wee principally desire , a soundnesse of iudgement , knowledge of scripture , wisedome to interpret , an eloquence to vtter , power to exart , zeale to reproue , in the ministers of god , and all these in farre greater measure , then in other men ; but may wee not seing hee that liueth made all things together , the lord who onely is iust , and there is none other but hee , and hee remaineth a victorious king for euer , hee ordereth the world with the power of his hand , and all things obey his will , for hee gouerneth all things by his power , and deuideth the holie things from the prophane , say with the sonne of sirach , to whom hath hee giuen power to expresse his works , or who is sufficient for these things ? neither must this hould all those back who are willing to bestow their labours for the benefit of gods church , because they are not able ( no not in any tolle●able manner ) to performe all these ; seeing his strength is oftentimes perfected in our weaknesse , and to discharge our calling ( as to auoid temptations ) this must bee our comfort , whilst wee desire for to grow better , that his grace is sufficient for vs. for as in distribution of gifts , god giueth not the same number of talents , to all , neither doth hee expect equall proportion of increase , nor blameth him that had but one talent , that hee got not fiue , or two , but onely for this that hee did not vse it . so that if those of the lowest sort of clergie , who in the plentifull knowledge of this age , modestly content themselues onely to reade the scriptures , and the profitable indeuours of other men ( whilst some not much their betters for learning out of a bold presumption arising from a false opinion of equalitie in all degrees , dare approch the honorablest and grauest assemblies in this land ) shall wee thinke their modestie deserueth so much blame , as that they are not worthy to bee tearmed ministers ? and not rather blame the vnmodest presumption of others , who vnskilfully and boldly , haue taken vpon them , the dispatch of those duties , which doubtlesse by many hundreds , might haue beene performed much better . and i am sorie it fareth with vs in this case , worse then it doth in all other courses besides , seeing commodities , and seruices , are worthely suspected , onely in this respect that they are offered ; and in these functions much holyer , and of more weight , they are thought by some to deserue better , in that they boldly and vnconscionably , outrun the rest . as if in the discharge of these sacred duties , an vnhallowed emulation were the best vertue , or that a lawfull ordination to preach , were a warrant sufficient , allwaies to preach where it pleaseth them . this error to bold and ouerfoule , if it were not the vsuall misdemeanor of those men , who to rigorously ( beeing vnlearned themselues ) call for a learned ministrie , wee could as easilie afford them their desired happinesse , as wee are willing to craue pardon for others , that beeing better learned , are not indued with the like boldnesse . wee doubt not but all men in this calling , haue great reason to vse , the vttermost of their learning to the benefit of gods church , and that those who are not so well able to teach others , should indeuour themselues to bee more learned . which vertuous trauells of theirs , so much deserueth the more fauour , in that there is no calling , which hath not more ease , and whose scope is not shorter , then the vnlimited , and endlesse desire to obtaine knowledge . in which respect , men indued with greater gifts should receiue from the church a better recompence ; and where there worthynesse is farre vnequall , there both with prince and people , ( which is some mens error ) their estimation and honor ought not to bee all one . for euen the heathen philosophers ( who in comparison of these drunk but of the standing waters which were drie in the time of heate ) forsaking the fountaine of life , euen the lord himselfe , for that glorious show ( which was nothing else but like the beames of a comet , to be wondred at , for a time , but neither of continuance , nor influence ) amongst many , they were much esteemed ; the heathen princes finding this benefit at their hands , that those morall vertues , wherein they were excellent , like sweet flowers had withered long since , if men of learning , like skilful apothecaries had not distilled them . but the knowledge of these , surely was amisse , in leauing that which was necessarie for a thing superfluous , a thing sound for that which was emptie , profitable for that which to a better life serued to small vse , and a thing ( in comparison ) euill for that which was absolutely good . yet whilst wee haue dispised these ( digging wels vnto our selues like those of isack , contention and hatred ) were puft vp with an opinion that we know much ; as if our weakenesse , could incounter the worthiest for learning that the church hath . who in deed as concerning time , ought to bee teachers , yet haue neede againe to bee taught , what are the first principles of the word of god , and surely the most faults in the kingdome haue proceeded from this fountaine , that the priesthoode for doctrine is not sound : who being faultie in this kinde , if they had tempred themselues from teaching so much , vntill they had learned more , it is like the church had beene healed of a great part of that malladie , wherewith shee is now sicke . whom i would bee loath to take vpon mee to reproue , ( seeing in their opinion they are wise men ) but onely to put them in minde of this , that an ecclesiasticall ministrie is their function . this ought to teach them , that corners are no fit temples to preach their doctrine , especiallie now in the time of peace , or if necessity at sometimes require it of them , yet that their doctrine bee such , as for soundnesse and truth , it may beseeme the temple secondlie that the church by those whom she hath inuested with that power , should call such vnto that place , whose labours shee pu●poseth to vse in that kinde . for the church hath no reason to heare their voice , whom christ hath not commaunded for to feede his sheepe . wherein if those in authoritie ( by ordaining men altogether vnworthie ) vnhonestlie discharge that trust , which the church doth impose vpon them , it is their fault who abusing that honor , which they haue receiued , haue nourished some wolues , to deuoure the flock . in detestation whereof multitudes often times cry out , whilst foxes are honoured as holy creatures . but seeing it is true , that the dulnesse of our witts , and the strength of our fancies , maketh vs run after to beleeue , ( and those whom authoritie suppresse as men that deserue euill wee releeue them as martyrs that suffered for well doing ) our church had small gaine to exchaunge the ignorance of her worst ministers , for the factious im●loyments of those men now , seeing these men by reason of their holy function are called stewards , ouer the church , which is gods household , the holie ghost telleth vs who is a faithfull and wise steward whom the maister shall make ruler ouer all his household , to giue them their portion of meate in due season ; commending vnto vs ( as some of the fathers obserue ) those fiue properties ; truth , humilitie , discretion , a lawfull calling , fit execution of the place , which are requisit in him who desireth the approbation of a good steward that neither hee bee a betrayer of the flock nor wastfull ; accounting that his owne which is but onely committed to his charge ; of such a one wee say as the holy ghost in another case , who is so faithfull amongst all thy seruants as david . for doubtlesse many men , will boast euerie one of his owne goodnesse , but who can finde a faithfull man. secondly that hee bee humble , remembring that hee is but a fellow seruant , which vertue is not so repugnant ( as some think ) to the highest title of office in our church , but that experience hath taught vs , how both of them fitly may bee ioynd together . thirdly , wise , not blind , nor an idiote , of whom the prophet speaketh , their watchmen are all blinde , they haue no knowledge , they are all dumb dogs , they cannot barke , they lie and sleepe and delight in sleeping ; surely fortitude , and constancie are required of such as haue set their hands vnto the lords plough , wisedome in those that are made watchmen ouer the lords house , iustice , in that they are debters , both to wise & foolish ; and temperance in the performa●ce of this duty . we may & ought to say ( i hope without off●ce ) to the honorable bishops , the fathers of our churches , as ioseph said to 〈◊〉 , prouide for a man of vnderstanding , and wisedome , and set him ouer the land of ●egipt . ther is nothing surely more dangerous then a watchman , that is blind , a preacher that is dumb , a teacher that is ignorant , or a prelate that is remi●●e , ●either doe i think our church , hath so much cause to complaine , ( as some men beare vs in hand ) nor if it had ( as may appeare hereafter ) it is neither onely nor principally , the bishops fault . fourthly a lawful caling , whom the lord hath made not he whom fauour , nor any other corruption , nor the peoples vnwarranted vocation , nor his owne intrusion hath placed in that roome . for this shall remaine vndispensable to the worlds end , let no man take vpon him that honor , but hee that is called of god as aaron was . lastly is required the fit execution of his place , that hee giue them their meate in due season ; the parties are those , which are of his familie , the lords house , to them it must bee meate , not poyson , as many giue ; and it must bee in due season , that is when it can seasonablie bee performed . for hee that hath alotted a time for all things , hath giuen this allowance , that there is a time to keepe silence , and a time to speake . which some not considering , haue made the apostles commaundement ( bee instant in season and out of season ) to lie with equall necessitie , vpon the former clause , preach the word : as if this eagernes in the dispatch of this dutie , might warrant them , loosely , negligently , vnlearnedly ( for want of time ) to preach those profound misteries , which vttered in due season , are like aples of gold with pictures of siluer . surely to preach diligently , is not to preach often , but rather to bee diligent in studying , for that we preach ; which a great number nelecting ( men otherwise zealous and able to doe well ) haue thought it not onely excuse , but commendation sufficient , that they preach often . wherein doubtles the church receiueth at their hands a double wrong ; both a contempt of those misteries , wherinto they search not , for want of time , and an vncharitable condemning of others , who wanting peraduenture that felicitie of tongue which they haue , or rather who are loath to handle those holy things vnlike themselues , are thought by many , to bee idle , for not preaching so often , as others doe . a thing certainely more excusable by much , if men in preaching were onely to haue respect , to the capacitie of the hearers , and not to the maiestie of that word , which they expound vnto them . for-getting that euery scribe that is taught vnto the kingdome of heauen , is like vnto a househoulder , which bringeth forth out of his treasurie things both new and old . i hope the due meditation of this text , wil put them in minde , that to speak often , is not euer to say much ; for saith the son of sirach , the talking of a fo●le , is like a burthen in the way , but there is comelinesse in the talke of a wise man ; they inquire at the mouth of the wise man in the congreg●tion , & they shall ponder his words in their hart , for the words of such as haue vnderstanding , are waighed in the ballance . doubtlesse i can neuer perswade my selfe , when wee speake of those matters , which wee haue made vnto the king of heauen , that the exactest industrie , which either tongue or pen can take in the handling of this work can displease god ; wherin i will not condemne ( as vnprofitable ) the labours of such , who are defectiue in this kinde ; no more then i hope they will , the seldome , reuerend , and learned preaching of those men , who in these respects are not so common speakers ; as others bee . but not to handle the excellencies of some , and the vertues which were to bee wished in all , let vs consider a little better , the nature of this ministrie , and see how sufficiently our church is prouided in this kinde . and the defects ( if there bee any as wee may not supose that wee haue none ) from whence they proceed , and how the best remedies may bee prouided for them . we call then the ecclesiasticall ministrie a sacred action , publick , instituted of christ in the church of god , for the saluation of the elect , & his own glory , vntill the end of the world , wherein some seuerall men , lawfully elected , called , and ordained to this function , externallie and visiblie , serue both to offer vp the publick and common praiers of any one church , and by the pure preaching of the word , and the lawfull administration of the sacraments , and holy discipline , they serue instrumentallie to christ , who inwardly and inuisiblie , by his holy spirit , doth teach , correct , comfort , nourish with his flesh and bloud , his misticall bodie , which wee call the church . the consideration it is like of this office , hath neither fully possest all who are desireous to enter into this calling , ( because whom all other worldlie hopes haue forsaken they commonly reserue ministeriall vocation as their last and surest refuge , euer open to forlorne men ) nor those who blame some part of the clergie of this land ; whereas in deed the greatnesse of the haruest , and the scarsetie of able workmen hath made it necessarie that law should yeelde to admit numbers of men , but slenderlie and meanlie qualified ; now as wee cannot excuse the former fault , whether it bee the corruption in their owne desires , or the greedinesse of those who are the patrons of church liuings , making that the church , that should nourish them , whose seruice shee needeth , hath obtruded vpon her their seruice that know not otherwise how to liue , and sustaine themselues . yet surely for the other neither is the fault so common , as it hath beene in times past , nor altogether so great , ( if these reformers who haue so much knowledge themselues could but with patience indure a smaller proportion in other menn● ) for it fareth with the church as with a common wealth , where manie gouernours are needfull , and they not many whom their qualitie can commend ▪ the penu●ie of worthier , must needs make the meaner sort capable , who notwithstanding are not altogether so vnfit as some men thinke to discharge the greatest if not the principallest part which is committed to them . for seeing no man of sound iudgement , can doubt but that sacraments , where the ministers haue lawfull ordination ( nay peraduenture baptisme wher they haue not ) is as auaileable to saluation , as administred by the best preacher ; and that preaching it selfe , is not onely to make , and frame of themselues ( which manie doe foolishly , which are thought by their followers that they preach well ) but also to reade the scriptures , and those learned homelies of other men , as some vnanswerably haue confirmed vnto vs , and that not the least part of this dutie is the publike offering vp of the praiers of the whole congregation , which themselues confesse to bee praiers , though the other to bee no sermon ; we may boldly say ( which they hitherto are both to confesse ) that ministers vnable to preach in that manner as they vnderstand preaching , and of lesse profound learning then these great reformers haue in themselues , and doe wish in others , are notwithstanding true ministers , lawfully ordain●d , and that the church is not simplie faultie , for admitting of these men , to the performance of those duties . hereunto we add , that seing priuate instruction , and exortation , was the most vsuall kinde of teaching in the apostles time ; both because publicke authoritie did not fauour publicke assemblies to this end , and that simple men are better informed by priuate conference , and considering the nature of profound schollers , is not altogether so easilie framed to goe from house to house to this purpose , nor can if they had inclination and leasure ▪ probablie frame themselues to the small capacities of the poore people , which ( notwithstanding ) greater imployments of the church , if they were willing would denie vnto them ; we rather chuse to haue them receiue instruction , from meane schollers , such as our church admitteth ( not vnprofitably ) to that vse , then wholie in expectation of great learned men , to liue and die with no other information then they heare at se●mons . so that touching those arguments taken from the principles of common right , to proue that ministers should bee learned , as likewise those authorities of the apostle aledged to that end , because s. paul req●ireth in a minister abilitie to teach , to conuince , to distribute the word rightly , because also the lord himselfe , hath protested they shall bee no priests to him , which haue reiected knowledge , and because if the blind lead the blind , they must both needs fall into the ditch , wee hold it iust , and requisite , according to the lawes and statutes which the scripture hath the cannons that are taken out of auncient sinods , the decrees and constitutions of sincerest times ; the sentences of all antiquitie , and the conscience of men ; that ign●rance is a great sinne , in those that haue taken vpon them the cure of soules . but seing to furnish all places of cure in this realme , it is not an armie of twelue thousand men , that would suffiice , nor two vniuersities ( though both well stored ) can alwaies supply so many as decay in so great number ; nor the fourth pa●t of the liuings with cure able when they fall to giue maintenance to learned men ; it must needs in reason bee allowed ( vnlesse the greatest part of the people should bee altogether left voide of the vse and exercise of religion ) that a number must bee admitted into ecclesiasticall order , which doubtlesse for learning , are but meanely furnished . for whatsoeuer wee may conceiue in our plots , priuatlie in our studies , or vtter to others to maintaine argument , yet surely reason will tell vs , that ( all vneuitable necessities considered ) besids eminent and competent learning , wee shall bee forced , for supply of this calling , to discend a step , which is neither , but onely tollerable . wherein if hee that is iudge , for the allowance of those men , shall finde them able to performe the seruice of publike praier , to minister the sacraments vnto the people , to solemnize marriage , to visit the sick , and burie the dead , ( which some fondly think to bee no part of the ministers dutie ) to instruct by reading ( although by more learned preaching as yet they cannot ) wee hold in this case , that the law of the apostle is not altogether broken . in this respect we obey necessitie , which we know not how possiblie to auoide otherwise , and of two euils make choice of that , which is lesse dangerous : seeing some inconueniences being tollerated in this , it may notwithstanding be recompenced with greater good ; and if euen these men ( the lowest almost of the clergie which our church hath ) who are accounted by others to bee dumb and silent , may and doe in some degree , as profitably instruct their parishioners as some others , who of as meane gifts but of more audacitie then they , dare take vpon them to expound and deuide the scriptures by preaching vpon some text , whervnto notwithstanding they come nothing neere : whereas the onely reading of scripture in the other , is properly to bee termed a preaching , what reason haue they with disdaine so to think and to speake of them ? for surely when the world most abounded with iust , righteous , and perfect men , their chiefe studie was the exercise of pietie , wherein for the safest direction they reuerently harkened to the reading of the law of god , they kept in minde the oracles and aphorismes of wisedome , which tended vnto vertuous life , if any scruple of conscience did trouble them for matter of actions , which they tooke in hand , nothing was attempted before counsell and aduice were had , for feare least rashlie they might offend , wee are now more confident , not that our knowledge is more , but because our desires are an other way , their scope was obedience , ours is skill , their indeuour was reformation of life , our vertue nothing but to here gladlie the reproofe of vice , they in the practice of religion wearied chieflie their knees and hands , wee especiallie our eares and tongues , wee haue grown to an intemperancie ( as one noteth ) that the desire of sermons , hath brought almost all other duties of religion out of tast : and in these wee think onelie such , to bee most excellent , who are aptest to mislike what superiors in their wisedome aloweth , and what the giddinesse of our fancies desire to haue chaunged . these compared with the other , which doe onelie read , and yet are obedient to the princes lawes , are to receiue incouragement and alowance , when as the other , ( better learned paraduenture in small measure ) for their vurulie disobedience deserue neither . for it is much better that the church should want altogether the benefit of such mens labours , then indure the mischiefe of their inconformitie to good lawes . in which case if any by beeing put to silence , repine at the course and proceedings of iustice , they must learne to content themselues , with the answere of that wise roman , which hauing occasion to cut off one from the bodie of the common wealth , in whose beehalfe because it might haue bene pleaded , that the partie was a man seruiceable , he therefore beegan his iudiciall sentence , with this preface ; the common wealth needeth men of qualitie , yet neuer those men , which haue not learned how to obey . now because neither any man in our church taketh vpon him the defence of vnlearned ministers , nor the lawes of our land inclyne not to the fauoring of that defect , ( as if wee expected no more of any then we allow in some . ) it must needs bee a slander in them , who think there are worthie men enough , if they wer sought after , both in the vniuersities & other where ; but while men are suffered to run , and ride , and catch before they fall , many worthie men are passed ouer & not knowne , some are faine to bee schoolemaisters , and some beecause of these troubles , change their audies . first i desire this man to remember his owne words in another place ; if hee think there are worthie men enough , why doth he complaine of the silencing of some as a great wrong to the church , which in this great scarsitie of good , and lawfull ministers , did much want their seruice . secondly , that the apostle described , the qualities required in men of this calling , doth not say , that if none can bee found , or not a sufficient man , in whome all these qualities concur , that then the church shal rather be destitute of ministers , then haue such . for there were in the apostles time , that swarued frō this rule , and yet he was glad that they preached the gospell . heerein we differ not from the confession of the heluetian church , ( which it is like our aduersaries in this cause doe more reuerence then they doe our owne ) who say , wee condemne all vnmeet ministers not indued with guifts necessarie for a shepheard , that should feed his flock , how bee it wee acknowledge that the harmlesse simplicitie of some shepheards in the ould church , did sometime more profit the church then the great exquisit , but a little to proude learning of some others . wherefore we reiect not now a daies the good simplicities of certaine so that they bee not altogether vnskilfull of god and his word ; and yet for all this , let no man think , but there are as many learned , godlie , graue , and worthy ministers of the word in this church of england at this day , ( bee it spoken without pride to gods honour and the ioy of our whole land ) as in any one realme , or perticuler church in all christendome , that either is now , or hath beene before vs. but for the scarsetie ( not of our owne in comparison of others ) but rather in respect of the multitude of our parish churches , i hope they will giue vs leaue to render them better , and truer reasons then as yet wee haue receiued at their hands , who onely with out cause to make it the bishops fault , are willing to tell the world that if these , vrging of order and obedience , which it pleaseth them to tea●●●e beggerlie trifle of mans deuise were not ) that then learning and religion would not bee of so little account , and estimation amongst vs. but i hope all men see , that the defect of prouision in this kind , ( and yet i wish that most reformed churches were but so well furnished ) is neither from religion professed , nor from the gouernment that is vsed , nor from the gouernours of the church , but the crueltie of the times past , wherein numbers of meete ministers haue beene consumed , the vnwillingnesse of manie at this present , who seeing the contentions amongst our selues , and by reason of these the contempt of the clergie , are vnwilling to enter into this calling , the schismes and deuisions which haue made a number renounce this office , others worthilie to bee suspended and depriued , from all which the church ( which ought to haue had the vse of the labour and learning of men of abilitie ) is forced to craue a supply at their hands , who are not altogether so sufficient to performe that charge . but the greatest occasion of this euill , is where law and reason haue giuen authoritie to some to be patrons to present , their consciences haue beene corrupt , and they haue failed of that trust which former times haue iustlie reposed in them . wherein if the people complaine , that their authoritie to choose is defeated by this meanes , surely it is but vnthankfulnesse in them , to mislike a thing begun with so great reason for their good , continued now more then a thousand yeeres , warranted by lawes , and practised with the liking of all nations , the beeginning of patronages is not expreslie mentioned in the lawes of this land , aduocations & presentations are remembred in magna charta , as currant by the lawes before that time , the plea of quare impedit , when bishops refuse the patrons clarke , is mentioned long since , for this custome was most vsuall , that the patron might not place a clarke without the bishop , nor the bishop refuse the clarke of the patron , if hee were such as were alowable by the canons of the church . in spaine before that time , the councell of toledo made this canon ; wee decree that so long as the founders of churches remaine in this life , they shall bee suffered to haue the chiefe and continuall care of the said place , and themselues shall offer meete rectors , vnto the bishop to bee ordained in those churches , and if the bishop ( neglecting the founders ) shall presume to place any other let him know that this admission , shal bee voide and to his shame , others shal be placed in their steads , euen such as the founders shall choose , beeing not vnworthy . long before this the like was determined by the roman lawes , strictlie to bee obseruēd through the roman empire . if any build a church or house of praier , and would haue clarks to bee placed there , hee or his heires , if hee alow maintenance for those clarks , and name such as are worthy , let them bee ordained vpon his nomination , but if such as they choose bee prohibited by the canons , as vnworthy , then let the bishop take care to promote some whom hee thinketh to bee more worthy . it seemeth this law had two reasons , for the patronage , which doubtlesse are not the least ground of that intrest which they now haue . the first the building of the church , a work which while the world was in loue , with religion gaind greatest reuerence , to those of whom it could point and say , these are the men that haue built vs sinagogs . heerein if any fraudulentlie discharge , that vertuous trust which through many discents is deriued vnto them , i hope god will looke vpon them in mercie to amendment , as the carefull phisition vpon sick persons : in the meane time i must tell them what i heare , that the church by their meanes is like the body of the amalekite , sicke , and vnlesse it bee refreshed , like spedily to die for famine . for whilst meaner men , content with lesse alowance hauing beene important suters for places in the church , obtaine them ; the patrons haue deuided the maintenance of the clergie , and the small alowance hath depriued them peraduenture of a better teacher . and howsoeuer good lawes haue beene made , to auoide the corruptions of patrons in this kinde , yet the couetous desires of such , as hardly satisfied , are able to finde meanes to escape the danger , and yet falselie notwithstanding to defraud the church . for humane lawes ( how vertuous or religious soeuer ) where the vprightnesse of conscience is wanting , serueth for the most part , not to make the sinne to bee lesse common , but the sinner in the fact to bee more secret : seeing betwixt god and man , this is the difference , that the law of man , what it seeth doth account sinne ; but god punisheth as a fault what no man can reueale , sauing onely the conscience of him that sinneth . in the one confession is a way to obtaine pardon , but in the other a meanes to procure punishment ; they onely are vertuous , who without all respects in respect of conscience , are onely vertuous . to conclude then this point , we say our lawes , & our tongues desire that our ministrie may be learned , through the whole land : that the hinderance of this is not wholy in the gouernours of the church : that a lesse portion of learning may serue , then some men exact in all ; & vntill better supply may be had , we reuerence , vse , and esteeme , the meanest of these , as the ministers of iesus christ. chap. xi . of the maintenance of the ministers , and of tythes . as it is of all vertuous considerations to a prince not one of the lest moment , ( if both for the safetie of his subiects , for remouing of scandall , and the discharge of his owne conscience in the day of account , it bee not the greatest ) to prouide for a learned ministerie in all parts of his kingdome ; so it is not either of least difficultie or least vse , to ordaine a conuenient and bountifull allowance for them ; neither can this ( how wisely soeuer gouernd ) bee a perpetuall maintenance , if it shall depend vpon the voluntary contribution of rich men ; or to be thought an allowance fit and conuenient for them , if it be not . so that the wisdome of deuout men in times past , from their religion , were as carefull to haue alotted a perpetuitie of liuing to them whose continuall successors could not dye , and were not lykely to be very euill ; as naturall parents , for that race , which proceeding out of their owne bodies , ( more subiect both to ende and miscarry ) are notwithstanding desirous , that they may be richly furnished , and plentifully maintained for a long tyme. vertue working as strongly and prouidently in the one , as nature and affection in the other . so that what care those that were beefore vs , vertuously imployed in this kinde , by indowing both churches , and other places , ( both to furnish and giue rest to the clergie ) with honorable , & perpetuall alowance to this end , serueth both to make the labour now far easier , to prouide maintenance for a learned ministrie , the greatest part whereof their religious deuotion hath performed vnto vs ; as also to make vs , so holily to esteeme of those things which their wisedome did consecrate to this end ; that pollicie cannot thinke alterations or diminutions in this kind to bee safe , euen where vnhallowed , prophane , and cruell sacriledge , were accounted to bee no sinne . for seeing the chruch peraduenture doth now want , what authoritie thought fit , to take from her , because superstition had made her too rich , and alterations onely might haue giuen some hope , that time would haue brought those religious houses and lands into their possessions againe , whose erronious blindnesse deserueth an euerlasting banishment : it is wisedome rather to tollerate some things , for the maintenance of the clergie , which a few wandring person ( made rich by contributions , whilst a great number zealously blind are made poore to maintaine them ) think and write against with great bitternesse , ( as the meanes of idlenesse and a superfluous pompe ) then stirred vp by the inconsiderate enuie of these men , being vpon the church such vnnecessarie want , that if the deuotion of the apostles time , wherein they sould their possessions , and laid the price at their feete , faile , ( as no doubt they doe ) the church must either bee desperately poore , or beg her reliefe from those kingdomes that are next vnto her . wherein besides the iniurie to god , which is no lesse then a boulde prophanation of holy things ▪ the church receiueth at their hands a double wrong . first an apparant discouragement from entring into that calling , wherein how faithfully soeuer they imploy themselues , & with how great sinceritie soeuer it be vndertaken by them , yet few or none ( doubtles ) wil be willing to vndergoe either the labour or the contempt , wher so slender recompence , & so small rewards , are alotted to them . both which of necessity must be , seeing almes , seldom , when it is no matter of extraordinarie zeale , floweth with so great a streame from worldly men , that it hath or can haue , any possibility to effect either : the other is the intollerable burden of the poore , which now lieth vpon the shoulders of the laitie ; in former times whilst the church was rich , beeing chiefely the humble almes-men of religious houses , and now because both the charity , and the meanes faile , the clergie ( who for the most part are fitter to receiue then to giue reliefe ) haue referred this waight to the laitie , which neither they can well beare , nor easely put off . and yet an extremitie in this kind , hath bene the originall of good lawes , for the redresse of it . now surelie all this must of necessitie bee more desperatlie euill , if either our owne couetousnesse , or the clamorous zeale of some inconsiderat men , cause vs to make a diuision , ( as of pray ) ( whatsoeuer our pretences are ) of that last , and least portion of the churches wealth . now because the first groūd of that plentifull alowance , which the church had , was the religious consecrating of a portion of our goods to his seruice , who had reserued a part of our time meerelie to that end : and seeing our liberall dealing with god , was the best and most thankfull acknowledgment , of his bountifull and liberall dealing with vs , holy men did confesse , ( as well in the one as in the other ) that in mercy , they did receiue both their time and their riches from his hand : so that by a part ( and that small in comparison of what wee allot vnto other vses ) we confesse his absolute dominion , by whose fatherlie goodnesse , wee receiue the whole . wherein through couetousnesse , or any other sinister occasion to bee defectiue , were to denie vnto god , that which belongs vnto him , seeing neuer any nation in the world did honour him , and not account it a speciall part of their dutie , to doe him honor with their verie goods . a part doubtlesse in christianitie of our morall dutie , seeing for the sway riches carrie in the world , and for that inclination which mens minds haue to cleaue fast vnto these things , wee are naturallie more apt , to honor our riches as god , then to honour as wee ought god with our riches . so that vnlesse this tribute ( as it were ) daylie put vs in minde whose subiects we bee , wee are apt to make our selues kings , and the world to bee our owne free , and independant inheritance . now seeing what wee offer vnto god , serueth vs well for the perpetuitie of religion , ( which cannot possiblie continue without a conuenient alowance for such as are necessarilie to bee imployed in the ministerie thereof ) as it doth to expresse our thankfull acknowledgement , of his mercie from whence wee receiue all that wee haue , in all ages both the gift hath beene refused , and the giuers reproued , whensoeuer the coldnesse and want of deuotion in the people , made their oblations to bee sparing , and little worth : for there ought to be some proportion , both betwixt him whom wee desire and hope that he will accept our oblations , as likewise betwixt the principalest end , and the things themselues : wherein whatsoeuer either our errour or defect bee , the burden of that euill , must in the end fall vpon our owne heads . in which respect , euen the heathen themselues : thought it vnmeete , to offer that vnto god , which was impure , or vnsound , or alreadie giuen , or else not truely their owne to bestow . now concerning the vse of those riches , whether in moueables , or lands , which out of mens deuotions were consecrated to holy ends , their bestowing is not for god ; who hath no neede of any thing that is ours , seeing the earth is the lords , and all that therein is ; but because it is our good and aduantage to bee exercised with donations of that kinde , & he accepteth them to no other end , but to haue them imployed to the endles continuāce of religion it selfe . so y e , inexcusable is the sacriledge of those men , who robbing the church , seeke by that pollicie to ouerthrow religion ; and their opinion is not altogether sound , who think no more fit to bee the possession of the church , then may serue by a false proportion of theirs ; to make a naked , and bare allowance to some inferiour , worthlesse men of the clergie ; to whom notwithstanding whilst necessitie & want of due prouision inforceth them to beg their maintenance from the layetie , they vnproportionably commit the greatest & weightiest authorities in the church , wholly or principally , to be ruled by them ; as if naturall and politick wise men did not think that they might iustly challenge an ouerswaying of their counsells , whose verie liuing , food , & rayment , must be deducted out of their coffers ; to whome they will be content , so long to be beneficiall and liberall , as nothing by the clergie , either in doctrin , or discipline , shal bee performed contrary to the liking of these men . so that the complaint of the pride & authoritie in church-men , is onely from hence , not that in deede their riches are too great , but that the maintenance which they haue alotted from antiquitie , ( and happely by good lawes confirmed vnto them ) is a free , and absolute right , and possession , no wayes depending vpon the courtesie and fauour of laye men ; who for the most part expect obedience , and seruice , where they are voluntarily content , to afford alowance . men seldome being willing to be reprooued by those men , whose condition is absolutely , to depend vpon their maintenance . this being the ordinarie effect of liberalitie in this kinde , beesides that patrons to the clergie may grow poore , & that all men at the length become wearie to be continuall giuers . seeing then we can haue no exemption from publishing of that gospel , without a woe ; by which the earth hath men vertuous , and the heauen glorious , and that without maintenance all the fathers are of opinion , it is lawfull to substract our labour ; and that this maintenance can neither bee conuenient nor perpetual , if it be almes ; wisdom hath found it out , ( which our fathers beefore vs haue practised ) that it was not ( thought a great honor to those that did it ) enough onely to build churches , & to furnish them with rich ornaments , ( not so much to further deuotion as to bee a treasurie for what want soeuer the church might haue ) as also because these moueables , were subiect to casualtie , to prouide that the church might haue for perpetuitie , a large indowment of inheritance , in lands : so that seeing wee goe not a warfare vpon our owne expence , nor plant not those vineyards wherof wee are , or can be debarred to eate the fruit ; nor feed not those flocks , whose milk ought not to bee our foode ; and seeing all that wee doe , is accompanied with a hope , which seldome faileth to aunswere the sowing , & the reaping of other men ; it were a thing vnreasonable , and vnhonest , to crie so much for either learning , or paines , extraordinarie in the clergie , vntill first we had in all parts of the land , sufficiently prouided for the maintaining of them . for doubtlesse seeing their function deserueth honor , ( wh●ch seldome amongst men is performed what worth soeuer bee in the persons where their abilities are small ) ( this beeing the common fault of our corruption to think a want of desert whersoeuer there is a want of reward ) it is fit that the maintenance for all ( though not for all alyke ) were such , that the reuerent and estimation which many desire , & ouergreedely hunt after , a cato might not aske but the common wealth should bestow it vpon him for his vertuous merit without sute . and doubtlesse without conuenient liuing , vertue shall want honor , and contempt must needs follow wher that is wanting . b for howsoeuer the best preachers ought to shun it , to auoide pride , yet they are willing to be honored , that they may be followed ; and though wee preach not to receiue reward , or recompence , which wee ought to bee willing , if wee were able to doe without others ; c yet wee receiue recompence , and reward , that wee may preach . neither in this doe wee demaund , what nature and reason can deny vnto vs ; for the labourer is worthie of his hyer . now seeing the clergie ought to haue a fit maintenance , and that some cause , ther was in all ages , why besides sundry other more rare donations of vncertaine rate , the tenth should be thought a reuenew so natural to be alotted out vnto god ; let vs consider a litle without offence both the conueniencie of this proporcion , and what some reformers displeased with the name of tythes , ( a thing in their opinion iewish and cerimoniall ) haue in stead thereof offered by way of aduise vnto the church , as a conuenient meanes of allowance for her . where seeing maintenance for the clergie is all that wee stand for ; wee hope their indifferencie cannot but graunt vs this fauour , that it may arise out of that proportion , and in that manner as all antiquitie before vs , haue thought fit ; vntill they shall finde out some other meanes whereby the allowance may be certaine and much better . and herein though wee make not the practice of abraham , who gaue the tithes of what hee had taken in war vnto melchisedech , to bee a rule of an absolute necessitie to all men , that any way are increased , and shall liue now , yet seeing it was then done by him , who it is like knew better , what was fit then wee doe , and paraduenture was to bee an example to the faithfull , as well in this as in other things : ( who therefore amongst other reasons are called the sonnes of abraham ) and at that time , when the cerimoniall law was not commaunded with so great strictnesse , it may bee a better warrant for the children of the church to prouide for her allowance by example , then to hazard , such new inuentions of our owne , as beeing reiected in this respect onelie that they are new , wherein they are subiect to much preiudice , are not altogether so like to afford vnto the church a maintenance either of that indifferencie , or continuance as tithes doe . for doubtlesse euen these , would bee much diminished , and detaind if antiquitie , and custome , did not tell vs , that were fit which lawes and ordinations commaund to bee done by vs , wherein to refuse what hath beene the practice of former times , ( onelie because it was proportionable to that age ) is ouer well to esteeme of our selues , and rather to hazard an opinion of singularitie , then to bee thought wise . besids if iacobs vowe , at such time , as hee tooke his iorney towards haran was , that if god will bee with mee , and will keepe me in this voyage , which i am to goe , and will giue me bread to eate , and clothes to put on , so that i may returne , to my fathers house in safetie , then shall the lord bee my god , and this stone which i haue set vp as a piller , the same shall bee gods house , and of all thou shalt giue mee , i will giue vnto thee , the tithe : be a rule not onely of prescription , but an example of warrant ( what ought and is fit to bee done by vs in the like case . doubtlesse wee are no sooner to think of gods protection and his blessing of our increase , but withall to think of the furtherance of his worship , and that not the least effectuall to this end , is our iust and liberall paying of our tithes . wherein if vowes , be but a more speciall obligation of our dutie , in those things which religion generallie doth require at our hands , it must needs seeme equall and iust , ( both for others who are free in the like case for to vow the like ) and for those who alreadie by lawes stand boud to the same duties , to performe them sincerelie and with much truth . now this which nature taught , vnto the heathen themselues , making tenne that portion which they paid for deuine tribute , the law after by moses imposing equally vpon all ( euen by this meanes the poorest among them yeelded equallie the same proportion as the greatest did ) in affection peraduenture much more . it was to them an vndoubted assurance that in gods sight , from whom all good is expected concerning acceptation , and protection , they were all one : and that this thus bestowed was not lost , but that the remainder was sanctified by this meanes , and that god receiuing a part , vndertaketh to blesse all . and doubtlesse if we were as vertuously inclined , either to depend vpon god for new blessings or humbly to giue thanks for those we haue alreadie receiued ( as sometimes the iewes were ) wee must needs account our tithes , a hedge and a wall to the rest wee possesse besides . for these being truely brought into the storehouse , that there may be meate in my house , proue if i will not ( saith god ) open vnto you the windowes of heauen , and powre downe vpon you , an vnmeasurable blessing . so that although the church bee now free from the law of moyses , yet because nature hath taught men to honour god withall that they possesse , and the scripture hath left vs an example of that particuler proportion , which for morall considerations hath ben thought fittest by him that could best iudge ; and seeing the church hath entred into the like obligation long since ; it must needs bee a question altogether supersluous to dispute whether tithes bee a matter of diuine right . for doubtlesse that which lawfully ( whilst it was ours ) wee might retaine , now being once by our own consent for that which our fathers did , the law accounteth to bee our act ) alienated from our selues , wee can no more warrantablie retaine backe , then ananias the price of those possesions , whereof voluntarilie hee made sale for the apostles vse : for they no sooner by alienation passe from vs , but the propertie being altered , god for euer after , doth account them and recken them to bee his owne . whose tribute either to diminish , or to wash and to clip that coyne , whervpon god hath placed his owne marke , must in the end proue heauie , and shal be punished as the robbing of god himselfe . and therefore least any man should challenge a proprietie , by any interest in these things , the lawes doe account , them the possessions of none . a the vertuous consideration whereof , made those princes memorable and famous , which tooke vpon them inuiolablie to defend the churches right ; whereas the bold prophanation in others , puld downe the wals of their kingdome , b and their hands were ouer weake to rule those scepters committed to them , because before they were vnhallowed and poluted , by presumptuouslie aduenturing for to robbe the church . wherein the resistance of some inferiours in this case , were of a little merit , if nature had not taught all men to abhor sacriledge . for this alone ouerturneth kingdomes , when souldiers are made rich by the churches spoiles ; and these for the most part as a c wise man noteth , suffer both the miserie of beggers and the infamie of robbers ; seeing then the indowment of our church , for the continuall supplye and reward of the clergie , aryseth from some lands , but principally from tythes , and these well and conueniently alotted , by former kings , to giue maintenance both to colledges , which may breed deuines , as to cathedrall churches , where deuines after their paines may well rest , ( both places beeing the rich storehouses of learned men seruiceable to the church for many vses ) it cannot bee but an intention of ouermuch enuie , and violence , to seeke inconsideratlie an alteration , and impouerishing of these honourable allowances for these places , by which in the end all feruent studie of deuinitie in the best dispositions must needs perish , so that if men had as much freedome to alter , and diminish the liuing of the church , as of other persons , yet no man can think it safe , nor possible for a ministrie to continue learned in that kingdome long , when other professions grow rich , and the reueneues of the church faile . tithes then beeing a dutie wherevnto all men are now bound , both by law of nature , deuine positiue , and a vertuous voluntarie obligation to the church , wee can see no great reason in the refusers of them , why they shoud either altogether bee kept back , or else bee alienated to other ends . for where the law of nature requireth a sufficient maintenance for the minister , the law positiue being a determination of the former , alloweth the tenth to bee the best proportion , wheerein if this bee remembred , that the maintenance bee sufficient , we doubt not but the prince may determine the tenth , or the fift , or any other number , to bee the measure . yet surelie stronger reasons , and of more equalitie in all ages , haue beene found , for the tenth , then for any other number besides , that tenne being the perfection of all number , and this dutie ( as it were ) a quit rent to him that is the author of all perfection , as it is , or hath beene moderatlie conuenient to maintaine those , whom hee imployeth in that businesse , so most fitly , it is answereable to his owne perfection . and if the bond of allowance arise from the benefit which wee receiue at their hands , whom gods ordination for our good , imployeth in that kind , it must needs follow , that the tenth vnder the law , being the proportion which the clergie had , there is small reason why now , ( their seruice being more honorable and the benefits more singuler ) their maintenance and allowance should be made lesse . in all things surely , this being the rule of our sauiour christ , that our righteousnesse should exceede theirs : so that though christians now be all freed from the burthen of ceremoniall precepts , yet from oblations , and tenths , they are not . and whereas in s. austins time , some part of africa , were not accustomed to pay tithes , hee exhorteth them to this dutie , from the consideration of those blessings which came vpon their labours , whilst they were not slack in these , which once beginning to faile , they found by experience , that they lost all . a dutie as tribute vnto kings , not onely to bee paid there where the prince is vertuous , but also ( with as much conscience ) where they are not : for duties belonging vnto callings , are not dispensable for the vnworthinesse of the persons : seeing gods ordinations , must not be altred without his warrant : neither are these therefore to bee retained or diminished , because the abilities of some persons , is able to liue without them ( which hath beene the heresie of some men ) but being the recompence of their charge , & labour , to those that are appointed , ( whether poore or rich ) they are due vnto both alike . whereunto though we leane not either so strōgly ( as some canonists ) to make ten , an absolute neccessitie of the maintenance for the clergie ; or so weakely to make tithes ( as some doe ) either almes , or ceremoniall● yet we thinke , as a mainetenance for the ministerie is necessarie , so the tithes are the fittest , from whence this maintenance may arise vnto them ; which being in many places either small , or otherwise imploied , so that a conuenient allowance can not arise from thence , to maintaine the clergie , some other meanes must bee thought of , by those whom it may concerne fitlie , and without iniurie , to supplie that want . and if counsell to that purpose may seeme needefull , this church ( god bee thanked ) is not destitute of men in both the vniuersities and else where , indued with ripe iudgement , whensoeuer any such thing shall bee thought necessarie , who as their care is originally the greatest , for the continuall supply of a learned ministrie ( the rest without them for the most part being but troublers of the churches peace ) it shall be a consideration ( if so it may stand with his maiesties most royall , vertuous , & princelie wisedome ) in all reason fitest to bee thought of by their care . for which end at this present , to propose any speciall inuentions of my owne , might argue in a man of my place and calling , more presumption perhaps then wit. but seeing there are some who though they can bee content , that the clergie should haue a maintenance , yet think notwithstanding , that the tenth is no fit proportion , because the reason for the leuites and our clergie is far different , they being the twelfth or the thirtenth part of the people , ours not the hundreth , it is fit though all men see that this proportion is to many but a meane liuing , to giue some reason to satisfie these men , why with equall conuenience , the tenth is a number , as proportionable to vs , as it wasto the leuites in the old time . to omit then , what some of the schoolmen write , that the clergie are to maintaine the poore , which are without number , ( a burden now wee are not vnwilling , but vnable to beare ) yet wee answere further , first that the leuites were not the thirtenth part of the iewes , and ours the hundred , for the hebrewes are numbred , ( without leuites ) from twenty yeeres olde vpward ; sixe hundred and three thousand , fiue hundred and fiftie men fit to goe to warre , ( children and olde men not reckoned ) all which being added to the former , it may bee thought likelie , that the number might arise to a million and three hundred thousand . now the leuites , all from the infant to the old men , were but two & twentie thousand , so that adding these to the rest , and deuiding the whole by two and twentie thousand , the parts deuided are threescore : which was much about that proportion which the leuites were , in respect of the other people ; which number peraduenture some thinke , when all religious places did stand ( as now in other countries ) was not any great difference , from the proportionate number betwixt the clergie and the laitie at this day . but this is not the whole reason , for seeing the christian clergie , are liable to greater labour , and more cost , then the tribe of leuie amongst the iewes , then but one temple , one high priest , and a few priests , of the house of aaron , which in their course serued in the temple ( the rest being allotted to inferiour vses ) whereas now the temples are innumerable to bee maintained , from the church , many bishops , and prelates , whose places are more needfull to the benefit of religion , then the inferiour clergie , many ministers , and learned deuins , whose labour , and expences are infinit to gaine knowledge , and afterward they serue not by turns , but continuallie attend vnto their charge , where it is fit they should liue able to maintaine hospitalitie , in a bountifull manner ( which is not so much for their owne families as for the entertainment of strangers ) ( the former being house keeping the latter hospitalitie ) wherevnto if wee add , that manie are free , from tithes , and that tenthes and other payments , are a part of the clergies cost , wee see no great reason , but as a maintenance is fit for the clergie now , so this proportion of tenne , ( if it bee not too little ) is as agreeable to vs , as it was to the leuites in old time . neither doe we heereby bring vnto all parishes , that superfluous charge , ( which they of the new discipline doe ) as first besides in euerie parish a pastor or two , there must bee a doctor at the least , manie elders , ( two and twentie some say ) ( though geneua haue but twelue ) certaine deacons , a colledge of widowes , and all these ( as they say ) must bee found , by the parish charge . now what were conuenient seuerallie to bee allowed vnto their maintenance , ( though wee cannot finde , an vnitie in their diuersitie of opinions ) yet for the pastor they are cleare two hundred pound yeerelie , in chieffer places more , and in none lesse then two hundred marks ; this with the rest amounting to so great a summe , and all from the maintenance of the church , which yet experience telleth vs is scarse able to maintaine one learned diuine in euerie parish ) we demaund ( without offence at their hands ) from whence they can hope or imagin , such maintenance to arise , to bee the strength and the sineues of their new discipline ? but because in this to follow any other coniectures then their owne words , were perhaps to wrong them , ( which willingly we would not ) it shall not bee amisse to consider that aduice , which they haue giuen , how for the expence of all this , in their wisedomes , the maintenance of the church , may bee made sufficient . first one saith ( if it were but the act of one as commonly in this case they pretend number ) if no other way may be found then haue the bishops , and cathedrall churches , temporalties enough , to redeeme those liuings , that be impropriated ; other counsel the same author giueth , which haue bene all answered ; another saith the same which the lord b. b. and the cathedral churches doe possesse , if it be taken in time , beefore it be to much scambled , how well would it serue , to redeeme impropriations , and augment the smaller things , & with the ouerplus to serue to other good vses for his maiesties wars , and increase of learning ; and a litle after , ( as if his counsell were worthie twise to be repeated ) he addeth the same : nay he wisheth all to be taken from the bishops . yet still they must remaine to the ministerie , and the common wealth : onely to change the order , and manner of the applying , that wheras before they serued to vphold a lordly pompe , idlenes , and brauerie in some few , they might now by a wise , & godly distribution bee communicated vnto many , for the benefit of many churches : and if bishops liuings be to litle , a free beneuolence , and as it were an offering of all sorts of people , young and ould , through this land , ought to bee . heereunto i might ad the counsell which others giue , all tending to this end , that whatsoeuer the church hath , and is not bestowed according to the fancie of these men , should presently be altered , and vndoubtedly by many degrees lamentably , be imployed to worse vse . it pleased that wisdome and maiestie which then ruled ouer vs , to discerne the cruell purpose of these men , & to hold it vnsafe to aduenture a worse maintenance for the clergie , by a worse meanes . and surely wee doubt not , but this great vnderstanding , to whome god for our happinesse , hath committed the gouernment of the church and the common wealth , whose dayes wee desire may continue , as the dayes of heauen , will throughly vnderstand , that a maintenance thus procured , can bring litle aduantage vnto gods church , when by this meanes colledges , bishops , or cathedrall churches , are puld downe . for if the fountaines be dryed vp , a generall thirst , must be the disease of our whole land . if the clergie want gouernours , better to be without maintenance , then without order . and last of all if recompence be taken away , wherwith the clergie maintained , may take rest , not ease , for the time to come , benefiting the church peraduenture in another manner , lamentable experience must needs tell vs , that in short space , the number of diuines wil be very few . in tymes past there was in euery citie a colledge of ministers , ouer whome the bishop bate rule , the which sainct hierom termeth the senat of the church , and with vs it is called a collegiat , or cathedrall church : wherein for the most part ( for wee cannot excuse all ) after their labour in the vniuersitie , in the kings house , in bishops pallaces , in their painefull imployment , either by writing or teaching in other places , are plentifully maintained ( as it is most fit ) the best , the wisest , and the most learned of the clergie in this land , which not onely ( as that most reuerend archbishop worthy of all honor sometimes said ) in respect of their soundnesse in religion , profoundnesse in learning , diligence in preaching : but wisdome also , experience , and dexteritie in gouerning , are not onely a singuler ornament to the realme , profitable to the church , an honor to the prince , but also a stay frō barbarisme , a bridle to sects and heresies , and a bulwark against confusion . from whence i doubt not ( next vnto those two famous noursing places of learning the vniuersities ) but when our kingdome shall haue cause to send to the greatest councell , that the church shall haue , men of wisest moderation , best liues , and deepest iudgements , that these places , shal be able to furnish them , with much honor : & therfore as it is a bold presumption in those men , who ( without degrees ) for some commendable paines in preaching , think it merit enough , to aduance them to that honor , so the sacrilegious impietie of those is without excuse , who wish & desire all places of that nature , to be pulled downe , or their reuenues to bee altered to some other vse : make them ( o lord ) and their princes like oreb and zeb , yea all their princes like zeba , and zalmana , which haue said , let vs take the houses of god in possession : o my god make them lyke vnto a wheel , & as the stubble before the winde . to conclude then this point , as wee hartely wish the ministerie of england to be learned , so wee hope the wisdome & vertue of those whome it doth concerne , without iniurie of any person , state , or condition wil in due time , think of conuenient allowance for them : and this not by selling , or changing of any thing to a stock of money , ( which was the manner of the maintenance in the primatiue church ) seeing wee are taught by experience , that things of that nature are vncertaine , and are not so likely to carrie to those that come after a perpetuitie with them , it may bee that if any age were so prophane , or authority were carried away with the violence of these spirits , by the wounds of the church , to cure the wants of some few , and meane persons ( a thing god bee thanked not much to bee feared in this religious and vnderstanding age vnder the gouernment of so vertuous and so wise a king ) the church paraduenture might keepe a festiuall day of solemnitie , plentie , and all aboundance , for some few yeeres , and for euer after , lament her desolation and ruin , in want , penurie , ignorance , and contempt , vnto the worlds end . and whereas the ages before vs gaue this deserued honor to some few , these were those holie and religious men that did build vs temples , colledges , cathedrall churches , and gaue ample reueneues vnto them all , for the continuall supply , of a learned ministrie , our posterity in the vnfortunat times , of fasting and mourning , after so vnhallowed a feast , and so prophane a surfet , should haue cause to bemoane their losse , and lament the times , where vnto they were reserued , cursing these sacrilegious reformers , that haue spoild the churches , the riches whereof being put to saile , haue serued but to satisfie the couetous pollicie of some few , & those neither of much worth , not for long time ) it wil be a most vertuous consideration , wherein his maiestie shall giue perfection to the happie beginnings of our late queene elizabeth , ( the nursing mother of our church whose memorie shal be sacred to all posterities ) by prouiding that the allowance for the clergie may be good , & conuenient and that those onelie bee suffered to enter into , and to execute that function , who haue learned themselues , and will teach others , in thankfull obedience , to be gouerned by those whom reason and religion haue placed ouer them , the other course must needs breed confusion , contempt of authoritie , needlesse discontentments , indiscret reprehensions , ignorant teachers , and the disorder of all states , whereas the wisedome , and counsell of those , who are alreadie aduaunced in our church , conspiring with so learned , and so wise a king shall fill his landfull of good subiects ; his vniuersities full of good schollers ; all churches ( in time ) with excellent deuines , and in one word our whole land , with men of singuler worthinesse in all professions . chap. xii . of non residencie , pluralities , and dispensations . wee cannot but commend the religious disposition of those men , if their intentions be as good , as their care doubtlesse seemeth to bee great , who awaking that idle ministerie , which in their opinion sleepeth in our church , cal all men to a necessarie consideration of those duties , which beelong vnto them : which either ease , or other imployments , might paraduenture , cause them to forget . negligence which in other cases , runneth not either into that hazard , or can be likelie to bee the originall of so great daungers , being in the calling of the clergie , ouer that flock , wherof the holy ghost hath made them ouerseers , the verie downefall ( so far as mans , reason is able to discerne ) into an euerlasting woe ; both vnto themselues , & vnto those soules , which are committed to their care . so that the same spirit , which in other cases , and at other times , vttereth those comfortable promises , of the greatest loue , beegetting in man , by his blessed working , an assured hope of an endlesse mercie , heapeth vpon him in this kinde , and for this sinne , euen vpon those , who aboue others he hath honored with these titles , to bee watchmen , shepheards , and the leaders of christs flock , the names of blinde watchmen , dumb doggs , which can neuer haue enough , idle shepheards , that leaue their flocks : the sword shal be vpon his right arme , and vpon his right eye : woe vnto the shepheards which feed themselues , should not the shepheard feede the flock ? they bee the blinde leaders of the blinde , imposing this dutie vpon all , to take heede vnto themselues and to all the flock whereof the holie ghost hath made them ouerseers to feed the church of god which hee hath purchased with his owne blood , so that teachers being those shephards , whose flocks cannot at any time be without daunger , those watchmen whom the most malicious enemie , doth alway beseege , those labourers in that haruest , which neither can haue end or intermission in this life , those liuing oracles of god , to whom men must resort in all doubts , those spirituall fathers , which must bee alwaies readie in priuate conference to admonish , to reproue , to exhort , to instruct , to comfort , as well as to teach in publike , it cannot bee but an intollerable , inexcusable fault in those men , whose care is onely to be rich , by the multitude of cures , whose absence , and negligence is all one with ignorance and want of abilitie to teach , sauing that the sinne is greater in them , who are able with learning ( if they were diligent ) greatlie to benefit gods church . and doubtlesse it is to bee feared , ( vnlesse their consciences bee without feeling ) that this secure , negligence in them , is but like a heauie lethargy , which commends them as it were by certaine steps , to a dangerous and eternall sleepe : so that as all the fathers of former ages , haue filled their writings , with eloquent inuectiues against these men , and all the councels almost haue sharplie decreed against them , the canonists likewise and scholemen , haue concluded their offences to bee great sinnes , and their drousie negligence without excuse , couetously rather heaping vp the liuings of manie , then conscionably performing the dutie of any one : wee can with as much patience and thanks bee content to heare , the loud declamations against non residents , and pluralities , by some in our church , onelie if it please them to remember , their owne vsuall absence , lesse warranted , and to looke with what sinceritie of conscience and zeale , vnto christs flock , they haue vndertaken , the vehement , continuall , loud , and intemperate reprehension of these faults , as if they onelie in our church , had a tender care of the peoples instruction and none else , and that all besides them , ( some few conscionable ministers who can bee content with one flock ) were nothing but a number of proud ambitious , and idle prelates , like that vnprofitable fig-tree , seruing to little vse sauing onelie to bee cut downe , or that these were that euill and slothfull seruant , which must be cast into vtter darknesse , where shall bee weeping and gnashing of teeth . and further which ought least of all to bee indured by any well affected to the credit and estimation of this church , which doubtlesse for reformation is , & shall be famous through all parts of the christian world , that our state did vnresonablie & vnconscionably by their owne lawes , graunt dispensations , both for pluralities , and absence , onelie to further the corrupt desires of some few , to the infinit wrong of the whole clergie , besides the hazard of many thousand soules , the intollerable dishonor of gods truth , and the exceeding disaduantage of christs church . doubtlesse we cannot but confesse , that learning is of little vse in the ministerie , vnlesse they bee faithfull to discharge that dutie : and that abilitie to teach , bringeth small profit , where care and indeuour are both wanting , to further that good which our place exacteth : wee neither doe , nor can stop our eares , against the whole booke of god , which requireth labour at our hands , and diligence in our ministerie ; neither doe we think , that all places alike , may challenge our paines , seeing it is in this , as in all other things besides , which are through priuate interest , dearer then that which concerneth either others wholie , or vs but in part , & at our owne pleasure : or if in dutie , onely according to the rate of a generall regard . yet i hope these men , will giue vs leaue to tel them without offence that the no● residencie & pulralities warranted by the positiue lawes of this land , are neither of them , so cleerely conuicted as incurring the penaltie of so high displeasure , but that indifferent minds may finde peraduenture good reason as yet to defend them both : which if neither wee much attempt , nor bee thought sufficiently performed by vs , we are preuented ( as they know ) by the most learned , and reuerend indeauours of other men , and are not greatly willing , that either idlenesse , or ambition , should couer it selfe vnder that shadow in a great number , which is in a true intention , a priuiledge and dispensation , the lawfull and vertuous merit , of some few . but because it seemeth that the originall of this errour , is from the not iustlie considering , either what benefices are , or the first limitation of them ( wherof whilst some are ignorant they rigorously conclude , all duties required in a minister , necessarily to be performed in one particuler parish , ) we must put them in minde , that either euaristus bishop in the sea of rome , or as some others say dionisius , first assigned the precincts to euery parish , and appointed to each presbiter , a certaine compasse , whereof himselfe should take charge alone ; & in this kingdome , one honorius somtime archbishop of canterburie , did first deuide them , so that from hence , was vnderstoode by the name of a benefice , a pastorall cure of soules , ouer the people of some parish , whereas formerly it signified some standing ecclesiasticall reuenue , taken out of the treasure of god , and alotted to a spirituall person to the end hee may vse the same , and inioy it as his owne for tearme of life , vnlesse his default cause depriuation . and wee know that the clergie for manie yeeres after christ , had no other benefices , but onely their canonicall portions , or monethlie diuidends , allowed vnto them according to their seuerall degrees , and qualities , out of the common stock of such guifts , oblations , and tythes , as the feruor of christian pietie did then yeeld . in the apostles time churches were onelie in the cities , in regard whereof those that liued in villages , beeing without instruction , were called pagans , which after by the example of others , both intertaining and giuing allowance , for the maintenance of the same truth , those to whom principall care was committed in this kind , appointed meaner men of lesse learning , and lower qualitie , to vndertake the instruction of those places , who were desirous and willing , to yeelde after the example of others ; oblations and tithes for maintenance of those , that were placed ouer them . now to say that either seuerall parishes thus distinguished , might by no permission bee allotted to the care and instruction of one man , or that it were not lawfull for any reason , how beneficiall soeuer to gods church to bee absent from that particuler care committed to him , were in the former to denie all better trust , and reward to men of more worth and greater abilities and desert : and in the latter to bee ouer tirannous in considering , and allowing the cause of absence , and peraduenture in a true construction , ouer rigorouslie seuere in both . but seing all men know which wee doubt but our aduersaries in this cause will conffesse that this limitation of particuler parishes was meerlie positiue , and the inuentions of men , thought , and found better , for the better performance of the clergies dutie , it cannot bee the absolute transgression of a deuine ordination in that sence , as if either to haue moe parishes then one , or from one to be absent at somtime , were a direct , & vnexcusable breach of the morall law . for the duties commanded not to bee done in them , are by no meanes ( not for a moment ) euer allowed to be done at all : which thraldome if in seueritie they bring vpon gods church , let them take heede what dangers they fall into themselues , & that by this meanes , the church receiue not a greater harme , whilst peraduenture in this case , their remedie is worse , then the disease is . now to allow absence vpon reason , without appointing those causes , and such as must iudge which are reasonable , were to make all men to think that they had reason that were willing : neither is there any great force from the nature of relatiues , ( if that were all ) why one may not as well haue diuers parishes , as one parish haue diuers pastors . and howsoeuer wee hold not the reason good , that beecause tymothie , & titus had manie congregations committed to their charge , therefore others may : yet the reason in their opinion , from this example ought not to want strength , who think a bishop , and a minister is all one . in this first distribution for the best discharge of their calling , and the greatest benefit to the church of christ , if some vnder the bishops & aboue their bretheren , which had moe and more distant parishes then any in our church , & all termed by one name though some were suffraganes to bishops , it ought not to seeme a matter of vnreasonable fauour ; and vnlawfull , to commit seuerall churches , to the instruction and gouernment of some men , whose learning , discretion , & care , is more eminent , and that these may whilst their labours are vsed for the benefit of christs flock , lawfully bee absent , and haue inferiour men of the clergie for a tyme to supply , and to execute their roomes : so that doubtlesse a zeale in these reprouers did carrie them to far , when alledging those extrauagant reasons against pluralities , they yeeld them , to tend to couetousnesse , that one man had the stipend of many ; that they make non residents ; that it maintaines ambition ; that it is the occasion of a gadding and roaguing ministerie ; no small cause why others want ; and lastly a taking away of that recompence , which belongs to others , these reasons in their opinion of some force , ( howsoeuer they haue alreadie bene profoundly answered with much iudgement ) yet beecause they still please themselues , in the rehearsall of them , we can bee content both with patience to giue them hearing , and withall to hope for this fauour at their hands , that they will yeeld thus much to vs , that many things may occasionally bee the accidentall procurers of much euill , which are originally no causes , nor iustly can suffer a reproofe as vnlawfull things . neither are these onely the occasions of the euills which they lay vpon them , seeing either all , or most are commonly to bee found amongst thē , who notwithstāding would seeme to be furthest from this sin . but seeing whatsoeuer in our church is practised in either of these two ( pluralities or non residencie ) is not the corruption of some priuate man , but ( the approbation and allowance of the court of parliament , wherein what soeuer is established , all men in the eie and construction of the law , are thought and deemed to haue consented , we cannot but thinke it vnreasonable and vnreuerend for these men , to disanull or make question , of an act of their owne making ; and withall wee hope it both hath and shall appeare , to the world , that as it is not lawfull without dispensation to haue , or to doe either , so that authoritie to dispence in both , is most agreeable to reason , and gods truth . for seeing the disposition and limitation of priuate parishes , extendeth no further , but to be the wise , positiue inuention , and ordination of those , who formerlie haue gouerned in gods church , and that all humane lawes , are dispensable by supreame authoritie ( a dispensation being but the relaxation of a common right , made vpon knowledge of the cause by him that hath right to dispence ) wee hope that likewise these may , and that the lawes forbidding non residencie & pluralities are in force still , notwithstanding by priuiledge , some particulers are , and are fit to bee exempted from the common right . doubtlesse neuer meere human law , was either made with that wisedome , or was in execution of so necessarie vse , but that sometimes , it was fitter to receiue dispensation , then to stand in force ; for seeing the best lawes of men are but the euidences of humane reason , which wee finde by experience groweth from a weakenesse to bee more strong , and from imperfection to bee more absolute ; wee cannot in reason ( without inthralling our selues in too great a bondage ) deny abrogation and dispensation to humane lawes , which are not to bee like those of the medes and persians that might not be changed . for though reason , from whence lawes of this kind haue their originall , be but that voice of nature , which neuer changeth , concerning generals , yet lawes shall follow reason , reason follow nature , ( both immutably ) and nature euer the same , and yet lawes concerning particulers , shall change often . but if any man thinke , that priuiledges and dispensations , either are to bee graunted often , or when they are graunted vpon iust cause are contrarie to common right , doubtlesse hee erreth in both ; for the first , surelie we owe that reuerence to those that haue beene before vs , that it is an iniurie to them , and for our selues ridiculous , to alter ouer easilie the lawes , which antiquitie hath commended to vs. yet if aduantage apparantlie , and without question redound vnto that societie , whose benefit is principally intended in those lawes , wee haue as little cause , to wish them perpetuall , as otherwise to dispence or to breake them when there is not ; for in abrogating of ould , or establishing of new , the commoditie ought to be euident , which must warrant vs to depart from that which long custome hath found to bee right : for seeing to the obseruation of all lawes , custome hath not the least force to procure obedience , whatsoeuer is depriued of this strength , is seldome regarded with so much care , so for the second either neuer to dispence , or not then , when the measure of the common good , shal bee euidentlie proportioned to a priuate case , is to make lawes for to want life , and those which were in the first intendiment a benefit to all , to make them a captious tirannie to some , and those neither of worst , nor of least merit : which as ouer easely to graunt in some princes , could not but bee iniurious to the publike state , so in others ouer rigorously to denie , ( hauing princelie wisedome to discerne a particuler worthinesse in a common right ) could but bee , that vnwarranted seueritie , which surely in the end , would doe great hurt . seeing then all humane lawes , are onely the conclusions of the law of nature , such as reason hath fitted for the benefit of some societie , either the church , or the common wealth , and that all these are and euer must be subiect to dispensation , and priueledge , from those that haue supreame authoritie , and that ( as wee think ) limitation of cures , either for many , or attendance vpon some one , is meerlie a law positiue , wee hope , that what the vehemencie of some mens zeale accounteth a great offence , reason and deuinitie , will warrant to bee no sinne . for seing as well in the church as the common wealth , honors and rewards are to bee giuen , not by an arithmeticall , but a geometricall proportion , and that honour and maintenance for the clergie being from the law of god , benefices and cures are by the law positiue , surelie it cannot well bee denied , but that how much of either shall bee giuen to this , or that particuler person , must be in the prince to dispose onely ; now because lawes haue alreadie set downe how much may or ought to be graunted to any one man , and what residence and attendance hee ought to performe there if more then this , ( for the good of the church ) by priuiledge and dispensation ouer and besides ( not contrarie or against the common right ) be graunted to some one , can wee think it vnwarrantable and to bee a fault ? dispensations for pluralites haue bene in all times ; and the necessitie and vtilitie of the church are confessed by themselues to bee the onely iust causes , to make them lawfull ; neither doth our church require other allowance at their hands , then that in these cases it would please them to think , and to write , that the dispensations which are giuen , are not contrarie , and repugnant to common right . if any think or speake otherwise , in cases dispensable , it is their error ; for it is the voice of equitie , & iustice , that a generall law doth neuer derogate from a speciall priuiledge : and that a priuiledge is not opposit , vnto the principles of common right ; because it dispenseth with that , which common right doth prohibit , for in the one it is respected by way of generalitie , in the other beset with limited and speciall circumstances , so that in the eie of law , and reason , they seeme to bee the same , though they bee not , wherein because men often times ( as one noteth ) waigh things stripped of some particuler circumstances , which add waight vnto them , they waigh them vneuenlie , and thereupon oftentimes pronounce that to bee to light , which is not in truth , if they had skill to waigh it . now seeing the absence of all priuiledges non residencie and pluralities , is in the intendement of the law for the aduantage of the church , whether it be by parties aboade in the vniuersitie , to get more learning , or attendance in the families of noble men , in princes courts ; or cathedrall churches : it ought not to seeme vnreasonable , that some part of the reuenues of the church is allotted to their vse , who though yet in person they bring not that benefit to some particuler flock , which in time they may , yet the church at their hands shall receiue no losse : for if the whole riches of the church were a stock of monie ( as some deacons paraduenture desire it might bee ) it can bee in reason no greater fault to giue maintenance now from some parish to some one absent for a time , and in that absence profitable to the church , then in their diuision to giue that allowance , which seldome they bestow for so good desert . yet whatsoeuer vnder pretence of priuiledge is practised by any , for to wrong the church , in a true construction , is neither defended by vs at this time , nor fit to bee suffered in admitting ( as i think it is not ) often meane persons , to haue the benefit either of non residencie or pluralities , which were in the first intendement , onely for men of better degree , of more worth , and of some speciall imployment in some other kind , for the singuler benefit and aduantage of the church of christ. which as wee cannot excuse , if it bee graunted with ouer much facilitie to all those , whom either idlenesse shal make absent , or couetousnesse make them desire pluralities , so wee are not as yet of their opinion , who think all dispensation , and priuiledge in this kinde , to bee against law , or if not , yet both the law , and the priuiledge to be against truth . wee desire them without offence , who vrge so strictly the lawes of our land for both these , to consider this , which is not altogether impertinent to this cause : that if a strict law were made for a citie , that were beeseeged , that no man vpon any occasion might open the gates of the same citie , ( whereby the keeping of them shut , was intended to be for the good and safetie of the whole citie , ) now if afterward some of the armie be without the gates , who vnlesse they be receiued in , neither they , nor the citie can remaine in safetie , shall wee think the verie meaning of the law , is that the gates should not bee opened to receiue them , which is the very end of that law which forbad it to bee done , and the law of nature ? it cannot but bee a seueritie in those , that denie it , which must needes in the other be excusable , furthering that end , for which the law was made . in all lawes as in all actiōs the end is the mark ; and this commonly is the publick good , of that societie , for which the law is made , now if the same publick end , wherat the church aymeth , in prohibiting either pluralities , or non residencie , may be procured best by graunting dispensation , for both these , to some particuler men , wee hold the law in forbidding , intendeth so much , and therefore in this case , to dispense is not to breake the law of common right , but rightly to apply it to his proper and peculiar vse : wherein captiously to cleaue ouer strictly to the letter of it , is rather to vnderstand lawes by the words , then the intents of them : which practise if wee shall vse , in those lawes which had the best author , and doubtlesse was able to set them best downe , wee shall iewishly keepe a sabboth , in abstayning from all things , by the vertue of that law , which commandeth thou shalt doe no manner of work ; & fall into the heresie of some , who held it vnlawfull vpon any occasion to sweare , beecause our sauiour sayd , thou shalt not sweare at all : and yet in both whilst wee cleaue vnto the letter , vtterly dissent from that which the law requireth . now so farre as lawes are positiue , and meerely humane , it is in the power of their makers , to dispense with them , by vertue whereof whatsoeuer is done , is not contrarie to the precept , because for the doing hee hath the superiors warrant ; which if wee allow not in gods lawes , many things must bee sinne , which doubtlesse were none . heerein if these men can proue that that which man dispenseth withall god doth not , we will be content to heare them , and must needes graunt , that they haue not the authoritie of the superiour , and that such dispensations are without warrant . but wee are and shall bee euer readie by the grace of him vpon whose mercie wee relie in all that wee doe , to iustifie and maintaine , the religious practise of our late soueraigne in this , against those who are willing vnthankfully , vnnaturallie , and irreligiouslie , to depraue and traduce her most vertuous , blessed , & happy gouernment : for seeing that dispensations are some meerely of grace , wherein the prince may lawfully respect one aboue another , as in legitimations , pardoning of heynous faults , and such like , in which for the dispensed , or the dispenser , ther is no other necessitie , either in the court of man , or the court of conscience , sauing onely grace ; because ( it is to be thought the people and the lawes of euery countrie in these and other such matters , haue yeelded this power vnto their soueraigne princes , euen where they cannot by prerogatiue as with vs challenge so much right ) wee doubt not , but their assertion is to manacle the kings hands , and to binde them in these chaines of their owne making , who teach the world that lawes must haue that force , that all dispensations , are vnlawfull , and transgressions of them . now touching other dispensations which are called of iustice , they are conuersant either about the law of god and nature , or about the positiue law of man , in the first there is no dispensation from man , yet interpretations are allowed , to show that the generallitie of the words , do not indeede extend to some speciall cases , and that of those thinges which strong and manifest arguments teach vs that god himselfe would not haue included , in the generalitie of his law , interpretation , declaration , and limitation , may bee made , and this by the lawyers is called one kinde of dispensation of iustice , whereby the bond of the law is not released , but the law is interpreted in such case , not to haue force , according to the true meāing of it . now in the other dispensations of iustice , which are bestowed about the positiue lawes of man , we must obserue two things , first that the law remaining , yet the reason in some particuler case doth cease , which ought by the prince , or the inferiour iudge , in dispensing to bee so declared : the second is when the law is grounded vpon diuers reasons , whereof some ceasing , and some continuing , the law is notwithstanding in force , vnlesse a dispensation of iustice , bee graunted to vs. there are also besides these dispensations mixt partlie of grace and partlie of iustice , because that he graunteth it , it is grace & fauour , & yet it is iustice , because he granteth it to none but vpon iust cause ; so that when a king dispenseth with any positiue law of man , the law teacheth vs to intend and presume both , that there is a cause why hee should so doe , and that the same cause is iust and sufficient , and doubtlesse hee that receiueth such dispensation sinneth not against the law , nor his own conscience , because hee is by the same authoritie deliuered from the bond of that law , by the which hee stood bound . so that if the church ought to honour learned personages , not onely in word , but indeed , as in prouiding more liberallie to help , and releeue them , by the church reueneues , then for others not so learned , ( because learning doth not onelie profit the owner , but the vniuersall church ) and that causes of absence from their seuerall cures , may bee such as shal be beneficiall to the church and iust , as for recouerie of health , if called by his superiours authoritie ; if for repulsing of greeuous iniuries ; if sent vpon ambassage , or to giue attendance , if his help bee required for pacifiing of scismes in other places , if his paines bee necessarie for the confirming of the doctrine of the church either by speaking or writing ; if his presence be necessarie for consultation about church matters at some sinode particuler , prouinciall , nationall , or generall , if some other parts of the church were in more need , and whollie destitute of a pastor ; or for any other such cause allowed by those whom the lawes haue trusted with the examination of these things , shall wee that are inferiours out of enuie towards other mens respect and grace , ( the due merit of their worthinesse ) whereof wee are far short , make the world beleeue , that the great sinne of non residencie , hath three goodlie vndersetters , which are also broad figge leaues , to couer the nakednesse of these learned men , whereby many are vpholden in their sinne , first rewardes of learning , secondlie the power of the state to order the liuing of the church , thirdlie that so they preach they are not to b●e charged although they preach not in their owne parish , and make this onelie the originall of the ignorance of the whole land , whom to reproue ( say they ) was to bee accounted a conuentickler , a puritan , an enemie to the state : could any thing in the eares of wisemen , haue sounded more sharplie , or bee vttered more vnreuerentlie , against that mother that hath giuen them suck , against those men who haue bene the fathers of our faith , through the whole land , against that prince whose blessed gouernment , procured them and many thousands peace , which peace made them something ( if they bee any thing ) could i say , any words bee vttered with more follie , and lesse truth ? we hope that neither they themselues nor the world wil beleeue , that the church of england , so happely reformed , so mercifully blest , so wisely gouerned , so sufficiently supplyed , so honorably esteemed , both at home , and abroad , either doth , or will maintaine and defend , the sinnes of non residencie , and idle absence , or couetous heaping vp of many things vnconscionably , and without desert ; seeing they are faults controwled , & forbidden by so many good lawes of the realme , and the vertuous constitutions and canons of our church ; wherin if they vnderstand ( as they ought ) what a cure is , what residencie is required ; what absence tollerated by the law of god : when and how long : what rewards of learning are due in the church to men of better qualitie : what disposition of these things resteth in the power of the prince : what vnion , or limitation of parishes is meerely positiue : what dispensations are conscionable and agreeing to gods law : what priuiledges are the right application , and not the violent breach of the lawes . lastly what is fit , and what is holden , in our church , ( for things forbidden , neither doe we nor doth our church defend ) we are & wil be readie , to giue them the right hand of fellowship , in the reproofe of these sins , which we doubt not may be daungerous , to the soules of many . but if they , desirous to outrunne vs in an vnlearned zeale , teach the world , that all absence is vnlawfull : that diuision of parishes are from diuine right : and so one onely for one pastor ; that princes cannot dispence : that the inioying of these , is couetousnes , idlenesse , theft , and the ground of all ignorance : then wee must tell them ( which wee haue proued alreadie ) that these reprouers themselues are not onely idle , but also pratlers , and busie bodies , speaking things which are not comely ; and that our conclusion is this , that all dispensations for non residencie and pluralities , are not against law , nor that law that giueth dispensations against conscience ; and that neither all giuing , or taking of them is so great a fault , as it pleaseth some ▪ men , to make the world beeleeue that they both are . chap. xiii . of publike praier and of the defects supposed to bee in the liturgye of the church of england . if our praiers were onely the performance of our owne dutie , and not a religious act , whereby our mindes beeing lift vp to heauen , euen all graces both spirituall & temporall discend vpon our heads , godlinesse hauing the promise both of this life and the life to come ) it might bee paraduenture of some doubt , whether they were any part of our religious seruice , or onely the pollitick inuention of the church , to breed a superstitious opinion in the simple people , of that almightie power , whom because they see not , atheisme laboureth to parswade that they need not feare . but seing the intercourse betwixt heauen and earth to vs in doctrine , from vs in praier , is the assured euidence of that mercifull loue , which desireth to make vs conquerours in the day of victorie , it must needes bee ( if assistance doe want to obtaine this ) the onely fault of man himselfe not to aske , seeing the promise is past , and sealed , that whatsoeuer yee aske the father , in my name , hee will giue it you . which if euer wee finde not come to passe , ( measuring things by our weaknesse which is not alwaies able to discerne what mercie denieth and iustice graunteth ) after our asking wee must seeke , if that faile crie aloude , and with importunitie knock , not doubting of his promise , yee shall receiue , yee shall finde , it shall bee opened vnto you . thus wee sanctifie in this principall act of our religion , and offer vnto the trinitie , the three especiall parts of our bodie , as an acceptable sacrifice , correcting our tongues , beeing commaunded because god some time seemeth not to heare to aske ; erecting our harts and beecause god seemeth to bee lost , bidding vs seeke , directing our hands , and because god ( as it were ) sometimes shutteth the dore against vs , willing vs to knock , in the first our praiers doe awake him , who seemeth to sleepe as elias said of baall , ( but hee that keepeth israell shall neither slumber nor sleepe . ) in the second to deale as our sauiour whom ioseph and marie thought to be lost , whilst hee tarried to doe the will of his father . in the third like the pharisies , who shut the kingdome of heauen , least any man should enter , but hee saith as the psalmist , lift vp your heades o yee gates , and bee yee lift vp yee euerlasting dores , and the king of glory shall come in ; and not onely hee himselfe , but all the righteous : for this is the gate of the lord , and the righteous shall enter into it , so that then euery faithfull man performing this dutie as he ought , may say with dauid , i will thanke thee , for thou hast heard mee , and art become my saluation ; for the promise is without exception , euerie one that asketh receiueth , he that seeketh findeth , and to him that knocketh it shall bee opened . so that though wine bee strong , though women bee likewise strong , though the king bee strong , and aboue all things the trurth bee strong ; yet doubtlesse the praier of the righteous ( especiallie if it bee feruent ) is stronger then all these . the earth is strong which supporteth all this great waight of creatures and sinne ; and is so made by the mouth of truth , that it neuer should moue at any time ▪ yet the praier of moses & aaron , was so strong and so powerfull that shee deuided her selfe , and rent a sunder , like the vaile of the temple , and opened her mouth , like the great whale to swallow vp dathan , and the congregation of abiram . the sea is strong , which supporteth the burden of all this ( for thou hast founded it vpon the flouds ) but the praier of moses made it to flie , that israell might passe on drie land ; what aild thee thou sea , that thou fleddest , and thou iordan that thou wast driuen backe ? surely iuda was his sanctuarie , and israell his dominion , and his seruant moses praied for their safetie , and the sea answered , as adam , i heard thy voice , and i was affraied . like effects euen weakenesse hath had , from the strength of praier , ouer the fire , the aire , and the sunne : but why doe i speake of these , seeing the almightie seemeth to be bound by our praiers ? that hee asketh leaue of moses , let mee alone that my wrath may wax hot against them : to whom the humble suppliant , hauing fastned his praiers , as with a chaine to the throne of mercie , may answere confidentlie with out presumption , as iacob to the angell , i will not let thee goe except thou blesse mee . yet let not our importunitie exclude humilitie , but that still wee pray ( as if the smallest grashopper vpon earth ( a worme and no man ) were to speake with feare , and reuerence , before the maiestie of god himselfe . seeing then praier is that name , which expresseth all that seruice , that our religion can performe , beeing the best meanes both to testifie our dutifull affection , and most effectuall to obtaine , what soeuer wee wanting can desire at gods hands ; seeing it is the easiest and most comfortable almes , which all men haue power to giue , and no man to refuse , seeing it is that office from performance whereof , neither time , nor place ( violent circumstances in other things ) are able to hinder vs , seeing it is and ought to be the first dutie , wherewith a religious soule , beginneth his life , and the last wherwith hee endeth it , seeing it is the seruice of all saints , aswell those that triumph in heauen , as that are militant on earth ( the one praising god for their glorie , the other praying for their victorie ) and seeing amongst all praiers those are most powerfull , and effectuall , which hauing the feruour of manie , and the promise of presence , are rather powred out in the temple then our priuate chambers ; for in a congregation a house of praiers , there may bee amongst manie , some moses , or samuell , which shall bee heard both for themselues and others ( one righteous in the middest of a froward , and crooked generation ) let from henceforth all impietie stop her mouth , which heeretofore hath blasphemed a holy ordination of so much vse , ( thrusting it out of our churches , vnder pretence of preaching ) and that open prophanes by seueritie of lawes , bee taught obedience , which either in puritie , or superstition haue refused in our temples , to offer vp their praiers , as the rest doe . it is no small blessing , to haue the libertie of the sonnes of god , to enter into the house of the lord , the house of prayer , the place where his honour dwelleth ( for in his temple doth euery man speake of his honour ) yet we denie not but in the most desolate , and solitariest place , more voide of resort then the ransackt sanctuarie of hierusalem , in the vncomfortablest vault that euer was entred , his eares shall bee open vnto our praiers , that goe not out of fained lippes ; but euen praier it selfe ( as one noteth ) when it hath not the comforts of many voices to strengthen it , is not it selfe . so that wheras secret neglect of our dutie in this kinde , is but onely our owne hurt , one mans contempt of the common prayer of the church of god , may bee ( and often times is ) preiudiciall , & hurtfull vnto many thousands : and doubtlesse in time of persecution , when wee are in exile , the principall griefe to any christian soule must bee this , euen the vncomfortable absence from the house of god , that wee cannot praise god in the great congregation , that euen in this respect , the sparrow and the swallow are in better case then wee are ; that all our melodie is buried in this one euill : for how should wee sing the lords song in a strange land ? for if there be in the lords sanctuary , in the courts of the house of our god , the holy angels mix● amongst vs , it ought surely to be our care ( euen for praier ) to refort thether , with ioy aboue all other places whatsoeuer : & ther to powre out our praiers , with that solemnitie , & deuotion , as those vertuous & humble requests , which the church appointeth , the saints vpon earth powre out , the almightie sitteth to heare , & the angels attend to further . now for the religious performance of this dutie , no wise man can doubt , but that solemnitie of place , is a circumstance neither indifferent , nor of small force : the authoritie of their calling , whome the church imployeth to offer vp the praiers for the whole people , is no small assurance of obtaining , what is presented by their meanes : in whom if zeale and feruencie of spirit concur , with a vertuous lyfe , they are no small aduantages to make the rest of the multitude to bee more holy , and to teach all the people of god , both what reuerence they owe vnto such , whom god vouchsafeth to bee mediatours beetwixt him and them , and with what deuotion and reuerence , they are to esteeme and frequent , those holy places , for the performance of those duties , which out of all circumstāces rightly are termed by the church , holy and deuine seruice . heerevnto if wee ad the strongest motiue vnto a minde sober and humble , that these prayers are not the voluntarie , suddaine , & extemporal supplications of one man , who ( though zealous and honest ) yet may easily faile in asking what is behoueful for the whole church ( for wee know not how to pray as wee ought ) but that they are those holy sacrifices of our lippes , made and allowed by the considerate deliberation of men vertuous , and duely proportioned with the sacred , and solemne lyturgies of the church in all ages : he must needs think the iniurie offered by some men , to bee vnsufferable , who esteeme all corners equall to the church for this vse , all persons as conuenient as those who are elected and appointed to this end , and sencelesse effusions of idle , reiterated , vnhallowed , indigested prayers , as auaileable in the eares of god , as the best either places , persons , or order , that the church hath . this beeing the dangerous pollicie of sathan , to frustrate the church of so great a benefit : and beecause no man d●●st bee so impious as absolutely to condemne publick prayer , to stir vp those who should draw the people , both by example and precept to a contempt of that forme , which taken from the puritie of all times , is worthely thought by the church , a lyturgie most reformed , whereby , wee must serue god : and doubtlesse not to lay vpon them a greater burden , then the weight of this sinne doth necessarilie impose vpon the consciences of such , who are and haue bene , the authors of this contempt , wee cannot easily be perswaded otherwise ; but what prophanes hath crept into our church , what vnhallowing of the sabboth , what want of reuerence in diuine seruice , what loathing of praiers without sermons : in one word what athisme , or hippocresie is in al states in this kingdome , hath ( originally ) proceded frō this fountain , the bould and vnhallowed despising of the communion booke ; whilst in the meane time , they haue offred vnto the parliament in the dayes of our late soueraigne , a booke of the forme of common prayers , of which , wee dare not ( as yet ) giue that testimonie , which truth compelleth them to giue of ours ; that grose errors & manifest impieties is taken from it . but seeing all of vs agree in this , that a prescript forme of praier is conuenient and necessarie for the church ( they onely permitting a greater libertie , for vs then wee doe ) both because it bringeth much aduantage to haue the people familiar with those praiers , which concerne all ; and that they may not say amen , to any thing that is vnsound ( a thing iustlie to bee feared whilst men haue no better direction but the sodaine motion ( as they call it ) of the spirit , and lastlie because vniformitie in this worship , is best befitting , them , whose doctrine and religion is all one , wee cannot but both meruaile at them who deuise continuallie new formes of praier , in their publike seruice , iniuriouslie depraue in sundry points , that liturgie , which in the iudgements of moderate , and wise men , is both least different from antiquitie , and withall most absolute for perfection , of any that is vsed in the churches reformed at this day ; and how soeuer it lieth not in the power of any one prince to prescribe an vniformitie of worship , ouer all christendome ( a thing happie to be praied for that the whole visible church in doctrine and cerimonies as it hath but one faith , one lord , so it had but one hart , and one mouth : yet doubtlesse in the limits of the same kingdome , it is possible , easie and verie necessarie , that the manner of diuine seruice bee preciselie one . for seeing wise men before vs , feeling those harmes which wee feare haue euer accounted ( which the common people doe now ) a new liturgie to bee a new religion , ( the forme of worship beeing diuers though the doctrine bee the same ) and therefore euer prohibited all new manner of assemblies , it ought not to seeme strange , if our maiestrates heeretofore haue forbidden all conuenticles , ( and such are all those who assemble to worship god after a manner not allowed by the lawe of the land ) or that in this they haue dealt either rigorously , or against law , for as one saieth to the furtherance of religion , men may and ought to assemble together , so long as it is not against that law , whereby vnlawfull societies are forbidden ; but when danger may arise from the hazard of a new worship ( by the example of him , that forbad all priuate sacrifices , in priuate places ) wise men haue thought it not safe , for euerie man to take libertie to haue priuate chappell 's . the counsell before this hauing made this canon , that all clarkes which minister or baptise in priuate chappels without the allowance of the bishop , were to be depriued : the equitie of this for preuention of all new worship being from that law , take heed that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in euery place that thou seest : a facilitie in permission of which abuse hath filled the church of god with contempt , prophanation , and confusion of all worship : this being in iustice the punishment of these men , that because they wanted modestie to bee schollers of truth , they were filled with pride to bee maisters of errour . antiquitie thought alcibiades worthely condemned for this fault , that hee tooke vpon him the vse of those sacred misteries in priuate , which the athenians thought vnlawfull ; thinking him by this meanes rather to vse coniuration , then to exercise deuotion : the wisedome of all , ayming at this , that innouation in religion , was no way safe : and that libertie for priuate assemblies , to the contempt of publike , was in all likelihoode a meanes to inuent , as manie sundry religions , as men had fancies . and howsoeuer the number is not manie , which misliked all set formes of praier , and their reasons not much stronger that refuse ours , and so consequently whether we take account of our aduersaries , in this cause , either by waight or number , there can be no great danger : yet for a further satisfaction to all such , whom either ignorance , or credulitie hath made our opposits , wee are willing first to let them vnderstand , what the liturgie of the church of england is , and then that in our opinion , there is nothing either superstitious , or vnsound contained in it . and howsoeuer sundrie times , by men of great learning ( whom i presume not to mention without honor ) this booke heretofore hath ben strongly defended , against al her aduersaries , yet it shall not i hope , be offensiue to any , to let the world vnderstand , that the greatest & most bitter reprehentions of this booke , haue ben stirred vp ( through want of charitie , misaplying some places ) euen for matters of small waight ; at what time the vertuous king edward had restored this church from the burden of those ceremonies , wherewith shee lay grieuouslie opprest , the care and consultation of the most learned and religious in that age , framed by authoritie a publick order for prayer and the sacraments to bee vsed in this church . this continued not long ( good things for the sins of the people being shewed vnto the world but they not suffred to enioy them ) beefore the most religious in this kingdome , whom persecution pursued , and opportunitie gaue meanes to escape , beetooke themselues to the mercie of that lord , whose truth they desired might bee kept inuiolate , and planted the church in a strange land : for that fauour which they found as a comfortable refreshing in so great a storme , wee and our posteritie shall say ( for sauing the bodies of the liuing , as dauid to the men of iabis gilead for burying of the dead ) blessed are ye of the lord that ye haue shewed such kindnesse vnto your lord saul , that ye● haue buried him , therefore now the lord shew mercie and truth vnto you , and i will recompence you this benefit , because yee haue done this thing . the first place of their aboade where they found fauour to plant an english church was at francford ; where ioyned with the french and others they ouerhastely fell in loue with the orders and liturgye of those churches : which beecause the english at zurick , and strausburge , did not ; but rather with wisdome and moderation ( as they were ) so desired to retaine the shape and the fashion of an english church . bitter contentions arise amongst them , onely for retaining or reiecting of the communion booke ; those who came from geneua , being desirous to rest vppon caluins iudgement , who was in a manner , as the oracle of god to all churches that were reformed , translated into latin the liturgie of the church of england , and sent it to him to haue his censure of it . neither did their discription much differ , from that which is vsed at this day : wherevnto it pleased maister caluin to giue this answere ; in the liturgie ( saith hee ) i see there were many tollerable foolish things ; by these words i meane ( a strange meaning ) that there was not that puritie which was to be desired ; these vices though they could not at the first day bee amended , yet seeing there was no manifest impietie ( mark it ) they were for a season to be tollerated ; therefore it was lawfull to begin off such rudiments , or abcedaryes ; but so that it behoued the learned graue and godly ministers of christ , to enterprise further and to set forth some thing more field from rust , and purer ; if godly religion had florished till this day in england , there ought to haue bene a thing better corrected , and many things cleane taken away ; now when these principles be ouerthrowne and a church must bee set vp in an other place , where ye may freely make an order againe , which shal be apparent to bee most commodious to the vse & edification of the church &c. we wil not take vpon vs to censure this letter , onely we see not how the same things could be thought in his iudgemēt foolish , & yet tearmed tollerable in a church liturgie , or how they are called vices , which notwithstanding hee freeth from manifest impietie , or if that this libertie of reformation were to bee giuen where a church was to bee new set vp , how it could bee agreable to them who still i think desired , to bee a part euen for outward cerimonies , of that visible church , which then suffered persecution in england . but it sufficeth in these troubles all were not of one minde , the most and the best were before their departure and in their banishment , after their returne , zealous , discreet and learned maintainers of the communion booke . and most of them afterward became worthily worthy gouernors in this church . for god who sawe their fidelitie , constancie , and truth , rewarded them seauen fould into their bosome , this booke then ( but somewhat purer and more reformed then at that time ) is that huge volume of ceremonies ( for i vse their owne words ) which is in their opinion vnlawfull , & idolatrous but in ours a most holie , and chast forme of church seruice , and least in this case , our opinion and defence , should be thought but the corrupt flatterie of those , who are or hope to bee aduanced by the present time , the wise and graue approbation of the holie martire doctor tailour , is fit by vs to bee alledged in this place . there was ( saith hee ) set foorth by the most innocent king edward ( for whom god bee praised euerlastinglie ) the whole church seruice with great deliberation and the aduice of the best learned men of the realme , and authorised by the whole parliament , and receiued and published gladly by the whole realme , which booke , was neuer reformed but once and yet by that one reformation it was so fully perfected , according to the rules of our christian religion in euerie behalfe , that no christian conscience , can bee offended with any thing therein contained , i meane of the booke reformed . thus farre doctor tailour , and shall wee now make light account of so honorable a testimonie , or alter these things onelie to satisfie the vnreasonable fancies of some men ? nay surelie in that most memorable act , of our gracious and dread soueraīgne , ( whose wisdome appeares in these importunate sutes , like the wisdome of salomon ) there is no one thing which shal heape more honourable and euerlasting glorie vnto his name , which is , or can bee a greater blessing , to this land , a more religious dutie towards god , a more thankfull requitall of all the fauours that queene elizabeth did performe vnto him , then without any alteration or change in the strict commaundement of publishing this order of common praier , in any matter of substance . let thy dew ( o lord ) from aboue fall downe vpon his head to make him wise in the councells of thy law , sanctifie his hart with the reuerend and holie estimation of thy truth , make his wisdome powerfull against all achitophells ; perfect ( o lord ) and blesse these beginnings , that wee and our posteritie ( without chaunge ) may worship thee in this land , so long as the sonne is before thee ; that it may neuer sound in tents of our enemies , that thy worship ( as erronious ) is now altered which in mercie thou hast protected fourtie and foure yeeres in the happie daies of queene elizabeth . and surelie reason must needs tell vs , that if wee should ouer easilie yeeld to alter what paraduenture they wish , doubtlesse the same reproofe , must iustlie fall vpon our own liturgie , of varietie , vncertaintie and inconstancie , which one laieth verie truelie vpon the romane missall . besides it were as they of strausburge wrote of them of francford , to condemne the chiefest authors therof who most of them suffered as martirs , it would giue occasion to our aduersaries to accuse our doctrine of imperfection , and vs of mutabilitie , and the godlie to doubt in that truth , wherein beefore they were perswaded , and to hinder their comming hether which beefore they had purposed . thus far did they of strausburg wiselie answere to them of francford , so that wee may safelie conclude , and say of this booke , as s. austin doth in another case , if thou runnest through all the words of the holie praiers , i suppose thou shalt finde nothing which the lords praier doth not containe and comprehend , therefore we may in other words speake the same things in our praiers , but wee may not speake contrarie things . yet because reason hath not beene sufficient to restraine the intemperate proceedings of some men , & they thinke this church is little beholding vnto them ( vnlesse they traduce the gouernment and the liturgie which she vseth ) for which notwithstanding others out of greater wisedome and conscience haue made against the common aduersarie this challenge ; looke if any line bee blameable in our seruice and take hold of your aduantage : i think m. iewell will accept it for an article ; our seruice is good and codly , euery title grounded vpon holie scriptures , and with what face doe you call it darknesse : wee are content after the learned indeauours of other men , to adde some thing to those principall points , which in the communion booke is , and hath beene misliked by them , that to whose hands the writings of other peraduenture come not , this short answere to such , may giue some satisfaction in the principall things which they doe mislike . 1 the forme of the liturgie of the church of england , is taken from antichrist . wee are sorie that their weakenesse taketh offence at that which wee hold as an honour , and a vertue in the church of england ; namely that wee haue so sparingly and as it were vnwillingly disented , from the church of rome ( for surely by antichrist they meane her ) with whom if the corruptions of that church would haue giuen vs leaue , we would haue willingly consented in their whole seruice : which being vnsafe and vnlawfull , wee follow them notwithstanding in all , wherin they follow those holie , and auncient fathers which first planted the truth amongst them ; and as we acknowledge them our fathers in the faith , so wee are willing euen to borrow that from them , which vertuouslie was vsed in that church , when it was worthie to bee called our mother● and if now the holie citie bee become an harlot , yet we ( as most churches ) haue receiued light from them , for there was a time , that their faith was published ouer all the world , and if now they bee at enmitie with god , and vs , yet wee had rather follow the perfections of whom wee like not , then the defects and imperfections of those wee loue , nay the spoiles of the heathe● taken from the deuill , are deuided to the furniture and ornament of the church of god. for doubtlesse as one saith all true godlie men may vertuouslie vse those rites , which wicked men haue abused , howsoeuer vngodlie . 2 it is vnlike the reformed . if they meane geneua , we cannot but acknowledge both the great mercies of god toward them , and the singuler benefit from them to the whole church . but wherin wee differ as there may bee reasons in respect of place and people warrantable for both , and without offence , so if difference were a fault it may bee as well in them , not to follow vs , as in vs not to follow them , but the strife for preheminence of example , is a weake contention , wheras for antiquitie there is no great difference ; wee thanke god for them , and reuerence that truth which is taught amongst them , but it is ( saith maister caluin ) a pestilent mischiefe , when wee will haue the manner of one church to bee in place of an vniuersall law . and doubtlesse if we were as willing to giue them our reasons , why wee cannot conforme our selues to the orders of that church , ( as some amongst vs haue be● violentlie bold , for to vrge vs to it ) suretie the world woulde thinck , wee had rather a desire to reproue them , then to amend our selues : an vniformitie in all churches were to bee wished , but it is not euer absolutelie necessary , wher the forme of the common wealth is not all one ; in this case all being lawfull , that is best that is fittest for vs. 3 the reading of epistles and gospels so cut and mangld . that we read them at all is that which they do mislike , but seeing men are easilie wearied in those duties , that are best , and praier making vs apt to fall into speculations . concerning god both that our wearinesse may bee lesse , and our thoughts more sound , and more agreeable to the present businesse , those wise men that haue beene before vs , haue chosen lessons , for the church , as also epistles , and gospells , sutable to the present time and occasion , that as praier maketh vs fitter to heare ; so the hearing of these , may make vs likewise fitter to pray . to read scriptures in the time of diuine seruice , wee hope ( being auncient and of such vse ) their wisdome will not much mislike , and if the name of epistle and gospell doe offend , they cannot but know that the originall of this both for the name and the thing was from paul himselfe , commaunding the same epistle , which hee sent vnto the collossians to bee read in the church of the laoditians . and of that to the thessalonians he saith , i charge you in the lord that this epistle bee read vnto all the brethren , the saints . from which custome the church hauing appointed that portion of scripture ( which circumstances being weighed ) is then fittest to be read vnto the people , as if it were directlie sent vnto them ( thereby procuring their attention ) is not vnfitlie tearmed by the name of epistle , to these as s. chrisostome noteth , the minister stood vp , and with a loud voice cried ( let vs attend . ) in one word the originall of this custome which so much offends them , hath better likelihood of warrant from the hebrewes ( then their sanadrin ) seeing it was the custome amongst them , euerie sabboth ( which continueth yet in their sinagogues ) that some thing is read out of moses or the prophets . and we hope the name of the gospell shall not displease them , vnlesse they be offended with glad tidings , and if to read onelie so much as fitteth with the present occasion , bee to cut and mangle , their wisdome can tell that diuision of chapters , is not so auncient , that it may not bee altered , and their practise is vsuallie to read sometime , but a part of a chapter , sometimes two , as the matter it selfe hath dependance with it . 4 it maintaineth an vnpreaching ministerie , by banishing preaching vnder the coulour of long prayer . to accuse vs of long prayer , will litle beeseeme them , who are long and tedious . if we esteeme not of sermons , as wee ought it is our fault ; and doubtlesse if there had but bene that respect in them , which was in vs , to a thing of so great vse , surely many of their sermons , would bee shorter , and much better : wee are content that they shall extoll either them , or themselues , but withall let them remember , that the church of god hath as much neede , sensibly and orderly to pray , as to heare a sermon , wherein if it shall bee onely ouer-short , ( beeing a dutie solemne and publick ) the world will learne to think that we make litle account of that , wherevnto wee allow so litle tyme : words surely how few soeuer are then long and paraduenture tedious , when they benefit not the hearer , but whosoeuer speaketh much , and by much speaking doth much edifie , doubtlesse is vndeseruedly blamed for much speaking . it is likely that they who labour for much time , to bee long in preaching , are of more singular abilitie then other men , or intend to trouble their hearers with impertinent discourses : or else that they cannot expresse in few words which themselues beefore doe not rightly vnderstand . but seeing the generall fault is , that wee are swift to speake , and had rather that the people should heare vs , then god himself ; the time which wee think ouerlong for deuine seruice , is accounted ouershort for to vtter our own fancies : but such sermons are farre lesse then praiers , to the edification of gods church . 5 that wee praye ( without faith hauing no promise ) that wee may euermore bee defended from all aduersitie . if either wee know some aduersitie against which wee may not lawfully praye , or that there bee some aduersitie which is not euill in it owne nature , or some euill that is not to bee shunned by vs , or what wee would shun that prayer is not a meanes for to escape it : if all these or any of these can bee proued , wee refuse not to forbeare to aske ; that wee may bee defended from all aduersities but seeing that the same things which when they happen both wee indure with patience , and god is able to turne them to our great aduantage , yet because we neither know our strength ( vnable of it selfe to ouercome the least tryall ) and that god hath promised , that no euill shall come nigh our dwelling , wee pray but deliuer vs from euill , that is , defend vs from all aduersitie : to think we may pray for nothing for which wee haue not warrant in scripture is paraduenture an errour . 6 which for our vnworthinesse wee dare not aske ; a note of a seruile feare . there is no vertue that better beeseemeth suters then humilitie , no humilitie better beeseemeth suters to god then the vnfaigned acknowledgement of our owne vnworthinesse , wherein if wee should rest , it were needlesse to aske , seeing there must bee a hope to receiue , aswell as a sence of our want : so that whilst wee haue confidence to obtaine that in christs name , which for our owne vnworthinesse wee dare not aske , wee rather expresse the louing humilitie of sonnes , then the feare of seruāts ; but it is maruell how they can say , & think ; that there is nothing which in his name wee dare not aske , beeing needfull for vs , seeing they denye that it is vnlawfull to pray to bee deliuered from all aduersitie . 7 to bee deliuered from lightning and tempest ( which t.c. calleth thundring ) when none is nigh . doubtlesse wee haue greater reason to feare , and so consequently to pray against these , then any other daunger of this life : it is the fearefull executioner of gods wrath , manifested in the giuing of the law , to teach the transgresser , what hee must expect , wee want not examples ; the heathen knew it , dangers aboue the meanes of mans wisdome to preuent , are onely to bee escaped by praier . 8 the singing nunc dimittis , benedictus , magnificat , wee know not to what purpose . you cannot but know to what purpose they were first made , and that the occasion of their first making , was the memorie of a benefit , not fit euer to bee forgotten : the church in this performeth , and learneth a dutie ; by the same reason we may not reade the psalmes of dauid , vnlesse wee were in dauids case : in scripture the fence is one , but the vse & application is diuers , & yet warrantable . 9 the letanie all popish . wee cannot doe our aduersaries a greater honour , then to make them the founders of these praiers . whether mamercus or gregorie , made them it skilleth not . the generall callamitie of the church was the cause , and seeing the presumptuous iniquities of these times , may i●stly cause vs feare what wee feele not , wee haue as much reason to pray to bee kept from them before they happen , as to haue them remoued when they doe happen . 10 gloria patri and athanasius creed to what vse ? to giue honor to the trinitie ; for as they were made to teach the arrians to confesse what they beleeued not , so they are for vs to praise & expresse what we doe beleeue . 11 to say after the minister is a losse of time . that scripture which commandeth the people to say amen , doth not forbid them to say more : custome and example tell vs that this losse is to the people an aduantage , whose vniuersall consent exprest by their voices , is like the roaring of the waues against the sea banck . 12 baptisme by women commanded and allowed . nay rather forbidden , and the action not allowed , though the act be . wee are sorie if any inconsiderately and presumptuouslie doe it ; but being done ( wee hold a greater necessity of baptisme ) then that we dare thinke them , fit to be baptised againe . heerein if there bee any fault , surely it is not a fault in the communion booke . 13 priuate communions to the sick . if the minister and the sick person communicate , how can they call it priuate ? for there bee not many , yet there are two : and where two or three are assembled as they ought , they need not doubt of the blessing of a congregation : but seldome so few are , and things of that vse , in such extremitie desired , it is tirrannie to denie them , for the not concurring of some solemne , and conuenient circumstance . 14 churching of women . and that psalm● appointed . if that childbirth bee a curse for the labour , and sorrow in it ; because then ( naturally ) an enemie is borne to gods kingdome : if many hardly escape those daungers , which fitly are called by vs labour and trauell ; how can w● but thinke it conuenient to giue thanks and in that to acknowledge the author of their safe deliuerance to bee the lord , who protecteth his owne day & night : they looke not at any meanes vpon earth , but vnto the hils from whence commeth their help . 15 holidayes a superstitious honour to saints . no , a memoriall of that benefit which the church hath receiued by that particular occasion ; which therefore it wanteth not warrant to appoint , as occasions of mercies , and deliuerances are new , so new solempnities : and therefore wee will euer say , this is the day of the lord ; and sing prayses vnto the lord : the fifte of august , and the foure & twentie of march ; for in them the lord hath done great things for vs alreadie , whereof wee reioyce . let the leprosie of those foure lepers cleaue vnto vs , if wee hould our peace , from psalmes , and thanksgiuing , seeing it is a day of good tydings : for surely as zachous heard christ speake , so god shall heare vs thankfully confesse , that this day saluation is come vnto this land : for he that is mightie hath magnified him and holy is his name . 16 reading of homelies and apocrypha . if they serue to edifie , why doe they refuse them ; if they bee not canonicall , neither are they so esteemed . if nothing bee to bee read in the church but scripture , why is it a law amongst them , to haue their orders for gouerning the church , reade publickly , once euery quarter ▪ the supposed errours in the apocrypha maketh vs with the warrant of the church , to refuse them ; for canonicall scripture to informe our faith : but the excellent precepts that are in them , make vs by the same warrant think them profitable , to bee read for to reforme our manners . 17 the ring in marriage superstitious . to finish an act of that solemnitie without some visible and significant assurance , as it were no wisdome ( seeing vowes were neuer thought so firme as when they receaued a strength from some outward action , ) so many reasons are giuen , why this cerimonie is most fit , and lesse harmelesse , both betokening the affection of the hart , the linking them together vnchangeablye , the continuance of their affection , without end , the puritie of that ordinance which is heauenlie , and last of all , an humble submission to the ordinance of that chrurch , which hath authoritie to appoint cerimonies , and hath appointed this as one most fitting to the grauitie of this action . 18 confirmation vnlawfull . what wee promise by others in our baptisme , that wee then vndertake in our owne names ; and remembring the conflict wee haue vndertaken , we come for an addition of new forces , in baptisme wee are regenerate to life , but in confirmation wee are strengthned to battaile : memorialls to this are not , nor are not to be thought needlesse , for many know they haue names , who little remember that they are baptised , but whom the church on earth hath once receaued to bee her children , she ceaseth not to pursue with fauours and helps , vntill she deliuereth them to their father , which is in heauen . 19 burialls are heathnish , and superstitious , either in meeting the dead bodie with praiers , mourners , and such like . it is well beseeming that hope which wee haue of the resurrection , and in this the liuing receaue profit , though the dead doe not . wee esteeme the bodies of the faithfull , as sometimes the vessells of the holie ghost , wee hold them fit to bee layd vp , not to bee cast away , and though they are not lost but sent before vs , yet wee sadlie lament our want , and their absence , though ouer vehementlie wee mourn not as those that had no hope , we may wish for them , because they are not with vs , but not too much lament for them , because they are with god. this stoicall age , need not this doctrine , it is sinne to forget that wee are friends , and christians . 20 the priest praieth for the prince , and the people answere of another matter . that praier which wee offer vp for that power vpon earth which doth rule ouer vs , if the people answere with this voice ( and mercifully heare vs when wee call vpon thee ) is no fault to bee done , and peraduenture were a fault not to bee done . litle things will offend them , who can bee so curious to mislike this . 21 crossing in baptisme popish . and yet to baptise vsing the signe of the crosse is not popish . wee are not of their mind who thinke the crosse whereupon christ suffered was like pithagoras letter , neither is this crossing a sacrament though it put vs in mind of our manfull fight vnder the banner of christ crucified , wee vse it not as bestowing a grace vpon vs but thankfullie remembring what was done for vs : a signe that may be vsed amisse , wee can forbeare if it please the church , but in the meane time wee can and doe vse it with obedience , beecause wee doe know how . 22 that all may bee saued , all trauailing by land , or by water . it were pittie but their mouthes were stopt who forbid vs to pray that all men may bee saued . it is the reuealed will of god ; and although wee know that all are not , yet beecause wee know not exactly who are , and that our desire is extended without exclusion , equally to all , in that sence , as our sauiour willeth , so wee wish and desire , that all men may bee saued ; for those that trauell if a blessing come vpon them , whilst they trauel to good ends by land , or by water ( and this for our prayer ) the church hath an interest by the communion of saints ; if they trauel to euil ends , and finde successe , this mercie serueth to make them better ; and therfore as wee pray that god would strike through the loynes of those , who rise vp against him and against his annoynted , so whilst wee know not definitiuely who are such , indeffinitly wee pray for his defence , to all those ( which trauell by land or by water ) where politick respects , or gods reuealed will particularly forbid not , ther charitie commandeth for to pray for all . 23 bells and organs are from popes . to refuse them for that reason were rather mallice then wisdome : for seeing the one calleth by the sound the people to the temple , the other by sounding , furthereth the prayse of god in the temple , it is not their author , that can be a reason to make vs mislike either : they ayme at some other end whom so harmelesse inuentions can so much displease . that wee worthely lamenting our sinnes , may obtaine of thee perfect remission ; they tell vs not in this , what they doe mislike , and therefore wee will accept of their gentle allowance , wherein they say this requireth a fauorable exposition , & that the words were well ment , as they were appointed for vs. 24 on christmas day it is said thou hast giuen vs thy sonne this day to bee borne of a virgin ; the same words wee vse all the weeke after , as if christ vpon euery day , had bene borne a new . i hope it is not the memorie of his natiuitie that doth displease them : if this day , when perhaps it was not , be that which in this they do mislike , the church tyeth no man to so strict an acception of this day , as if it were ment this verie particuler day , but that it may without offence , bee vnderstood of the solemnitie of that feast , if they haue learned to think and to speake otherwise , wee haue no such custome , neither the church of god. 25 scripture openly abased to shew a necessitie of baptisme , from that place ( except a man be borne againe of water and of the spirit . ) wee hope a necessitie they will not deny of baptisme and if this place bee not sufficient to proue it , wee will be , readie to afford them other ; if this be that which offends them , our interpretation of it ; other haue told them concerning this , ( wherein their negatiue is all that is alledged ) that in expositions of sacred scripture , where a litterall construstion will stand , the farthest from the letter is commonly the worst . 26 that wee pray for the dead when wee say remember not o lord our offences nor the offences of our forefathers . no , but because god punisheth temporallie sonnes euen for the iniquities and transgressions of their fathers : as the infants in the flood , & in sodome ( which they well knew who asked our sauiour ( who had sinned this man or his father ) and that wee goe on for the most part to fill vp the measure of our fathers sinnes , which must fall heauie vpon vs , when it commeth with a double force , therefore not for them but our selues wee say : remember not o lord our offences , nor the offences of our forefathers . 27 out of the collect vpon sainct michaels day , prayer is made for the help of angells . and why not ? doth any man think that they doe not help vs ( beeing ministring spirits ? ) and seeing he hath giuen his angells charge ouer vs , may not wee pray to haue their assistance : wee onely aske them as christ , thinkst thou that i cannot pray to my father , and hee will giue moe then twelue legions of angells . if any thing bee misliked beesides these , ( these being but small occasions of so great a difference ) our church doubtlesse hath many which are able and wil be willing , to giue them what satisfaction they can demaund : but if it offend them beecause it is auncient , or solemne , or sober , or charitable , wee are sory for their weaknesse , but wee had rather offend them , then the whole church of god. chap. xiiii . ¶ of tolleration of diuers religions and how far discenting opinions from the true christian faith may and ought to bee permitted in one and the same kingdome . there are few kingdomes in the world which haue not at some times diuersities of religion nourished and brought vp in the bosome of them : for the enuious man whilst others sleep , is watchfull and diligent to sow tares : & these vsually either in mercie , or for their nearenesse , to that which is good , are suffered to grow , till the time of haruest . if naturall bodies of men either had no diseases , or that rest were not sometimes auaileable to procure their health ; wisdome were a vertue in phisitions of litle vse , and vndoubtedly patience would bee thought sloth . but seeing the eyes of councell in all euills that are , looke not so much what they be , as what they may bee : and that the best perfection which humane indeuours doe , or can receiue , is from that leysurable maturitie , that times affoord , ( moments and instants being onely fit either for powres infinit , or for weaknesse that is furthest from them ) all men haue as much reason not ouer hastely to censure what the wisest doe , as the wisest haue warrant and example , not ouer hastelie to performe what they doe intend . few doe or can doubt , but that the foundation of all happinesse to a realme is true religion : it is the wals of defence to the greatest kingdomes , princes haue their best securitie from this , both for crowne and scepter , and their aduersaries shall all faile , in the iustice of the highest , that doe rise against it . the power how to ordaine that worship which god requireth and man oweth ( which wee call religion ) is neither in our weaknesse to inuent , nor being taught and instructed in it , haue wee willingnesse or strength to yeeld an outward obedience without lawes . as the care then of this in all kingdomes chieffly concerneth the prince , so the best enterance and assurance to the well performing of this dutie , is the sanctification of of the lords rest. without this , the slumber of peace shall bee no prosperitie , health shal be but a sweet poison to make vs distaste what doubtlesse would be better for vs , and in the end , the felicitie of such states , shall but resemble the grasse vpon the house top which withereth before it be pulled vp , and their faire day shal bee suddenlie ouer cast , or concluded and shut vp , with a blacke and a long night . where it is easie to erre , seldome doe men looke at vices with so much seueritie , as where it is not : custome haueing both the priuiledge of a multitude to bee without shame , and the lenitie of a pardon , because few men think it a dutie to bee honest , where the most are not , or that to bee an offence in one , which is the fault of all . now the persons of men being swaied many times to error , by lighter occasions then meere fancie , and all men des●ring a religion , yet most carelesse of the meanes that doe lead vnto it , and nothing surer to finde more resistance , then that counsell that crosseth affection or custome : it must bee a consideration of great consequence , to further ( by an absolute vnitie ) the true religion : no examples being suffered that doe lead from it , and all men to bee truelie taught , that they neither can with happinesse want this , nor without miserie think this to bee any other , sauing onelie one . but because all men traduse ( euen without respect of nature ) that deuotion which they see in others , who looke not the same way that they doe , it shall not bee amisse , to consider , who , and what they are , that vsuallie dissent in religion in any kingdome . and from the prince and the state , what fauour , tolleration , or respect is to bee had towards them : for seeing all men ( though their religion bee false ) haue reason both to loue , and to bee earnest for the religion which they pro●esse , it cannot bee in a realme where diuers stand diuersly affected towards this , but that all wil looke with a iealous eie at the state , and either obtaine or procure equall freedome of that which they call their conscience , to themselues , or complaine as suffering a harder persecution , and paraduenture bee readie when oportunitie shall serue , to become traitors . but because euen the most absolute monarchs , haue not an vndependant libertie , to incline with mercie towards these in this case , as much and as far as their princely grace could bee content to yeeld : it shall not bee amisse for the satis●action of those , who importune & hope for fauour in this kinde , if wee let them vnderstand , who they are that doe hold diuersitie of opinion , concerning religion in any kingdome , and what fauour and tolleration may and ought by the prince to bee graunted toward them . and because wee haue heard , the greatest prince in the world tell vs , that kings are phisitions in this kind , wee may safely resolue that where patients & diseases are not all one , ther the remedie & the cure is not all alike . there may be in a kingdome ( for we are not now to speake either of hippocrits , or open prophane persōs ) heathē , idolatours , heretickes , those that erre and faile in some points of religion publickly professed in that state , and lastlie vpright and true christians . toward all these ( if all happen to bee in one kingdome ) as paraduenture poland can tell they are ) the state is to carry a diuers respect , both for the curing of them that are thus sicke , and for the safegard of those that are yet whole . heathens or infidels wee call them who professe not at all the christian faith , as iewes and turks : idolatours such as haue in doctrine and worship superstitiously fallen backe , from the true religion of christ : in place wherof either saints , or reliquies , haue a great part of that honor which is due vnto god onelie , such are a great number of the church of rome ; these vsuallie wee call by the name of papists , and so wee must tearme them in this chapter . hereticks are they who strike through the verie foundation of religion , and directlie gainsay some article of our faith , and are or haue beene condemned , by some generall councell , as arrians , eunomians , seruetians , anabaptists , and such like . yet in these all are not alike , some beeing seducers , and others by them simplie seduced . the next are those that erre , beeing or seeming to bee infected with some errour , but such a one as yet is not condemned as an heresie : as betwixt the lutherans and the zwinglyans , about the sacrament , both holding each other to erre , wheras neither sentence as yet hath bene lawfullie condemned . to these may bee referred all those erronious opinions , which take not away the foundation of faith . lastlie those whom the prince knoweth to be vertuous , and sound : not infected with any heresie or error , a seuerall respect is fit to be carried toward all these . concerning the iewes a prince may lawfullie permit them to dwell in his kingdome , and to traffick in it , so that marriages with christians , communicating with their religion and all nearer familiaritie betwixt such , bee denied vnto them : these were the limitations which were set betwixt them and the heathen , by the law of moses , the lawes of emperours haue permited the like ; some of the fathers but especiallie s. austin , was so fauourable toward them , that hee alledgeth seuerall reasons , for the doeing of it ; first that aboue others they had the promise of saluation , and though their case bee lamentable , yet it is not desperate , for euen at this present , there is a remnant according to the election of grace ; for god is able to graft them in againe . for i would not brethren that you should bee ignorant of this secret , least ye should bee arrogant in your selues , that partly obstinacie is come to israell , vntill the fulnesse of the gentils bee come in ; for that prayer sayth sainct austin , was made for them : slay them not least my people forget it , but scatter them abroad among the people , & put them downe o lord our defence . there cannot bee doubtlesse ( and so they are dispersed in most kingdomes ) better obiects to cōsider the iustice & the mercie of god , then they are iustice to them , mercie to vs : and that wee vnlesse wee repent , wee shall likewise perish . but concerning the permission of sinagogues vnto them , all men are not of one minde : seeing dayly in them blasphemies are vttered against our sauiour christ ; yet wee doubt not to affirme , that these may be graunted with some cautions , as onely to reade the scriptures , and to pray , but not to teach , where the reason for them , and the turks to haue temples , is not all one : seeing these both haue the promise ; call vpon god , reade the byble , but the turks doe not . if kings for intollerable exactions , as hurtful to their state , banish them out of their realmes , it is lawfull , and yet if otherwise they permit them , surely in neither they offend god. charitie ought to make vs carefull to instruct them in the way of truth , but vnwillingly wee dare not compell either them , or their children , to be baptised . 2 the next are idolatours , to whom wee denie not , but permission if it please the state , may lawfullie bee graunted to liue amongst vs. yet euen these with the same limitation as the former were , neither that wee communicate in their idolatrie , nor bee of too great a familiaritie and nearnesse with them , nor bee suffered ( as some think ) with such to contract marriage , for seeing the infection of idolatrie creepeth as a contagious disease , and that all neere conuersing , must gaine at length , if wee cannot alter them , an approbation or tolleration of what they like , it is not euer safe ( though to permit them in a kingdome ) yet to conuerse any nearer with them , then with meere strangers . but i see not how this can be the opinion of those men , who thinke it vnlawfull to shun the plague . but we thinke not as they doe , who hold it lesse safe to haue any nearenesse with an idolatrous church , than with turkes or iewes . imitating the blindnesse of the israelites in times past , which had the iewes in greater detestation , than the idumaeans , the aegiptians or the assyrians ; but the wrath of god , was kindled against them for this sinne , and the comparison betwixt these , is not all one , where the disstance from true religion is not all alike . now a greater question , concerning idolatours is this , whether a prince may tollerate and graunt churches to idolatours for idolatrous worship ? one of the best learned in our age , thinketh that to say , it might , so that they abstaine from balsphemous doctrine , and idolatrous worshippe , were in his opinion not to aunswere ill ; but seeing the custody of both the tables , is committed by god vnto vertuous kings , and that pure religion , is or ought to be , the principall part of their care ; seeing they beare the sworde of authoritie to make such to feare as doe euill ; and that few euils are worse than idolatrie , we say it is not lawfull to permit churches to idolatours , but rather to ouerthrowe their idols , & superstitious worship ; yet not their tēples , but to conuert them to a holy and a better vse , a du●tie surely well performed as it hath and shall be the honor , and happinesse of vertuous kings , so it is not a worke to bee permitted to the audatious , violent , and vnruly multitude . neither doe we thinke all ouerthrowing of idolatrous temples to be vnlawfull , seeing those which vertuously constantine the great did only shut , and iulian afterward did set open , valentinian and theodosius did worthely pull downe . it was fatall to dauids house , salomons promission of two religions ; and we will require no better testimonie to disproue this , thā the eloquent oration of the league , to the king of fraunce ; a speech surely as fit for vs if either there were daunger or feare of so much euill . your maiestie ( saith hee ) looking into the memorie of things past , may sufficiently perceiue , that as long as france hath been vnited vnder one christiā religiō , she hath made her glory & renoun spread through all countries : she hath caused her valour in armes to be proued & felt in all places of the world , she hath alwaies been victorious ouer all the enemies of catholicke religion and hath done so many honorable actions , and atchiued so great and happy conquests against infidel● , that it 〈◊〉 such glory among the asians , africans , indians , persians , tartarians , moores , sarrazins and others , that al the christians in europe by them are called frenchmen , for that because those strange nations , haue only felt the armes of frenchmē , they haue also cōprehended all the latin churches vnder the name of france & frenchmē . but since france hath been diuided and rent with two religions , let vs see how much it hath lost of her auncient renoun she that commanded a great part of europe , that cōquered countries f●r distant frō her , that at her only name , made diuers warlike nations to tremble , is found since this vnhappie and vnfortunat diui●i●n , to be reduced into such extremity , that in the middle of her brest , she hath receiued forraine powers , she hath in a manner receiued the law of her neighbours , and of her enemies : & that cruel turning her sword against her own intrayles : & although she was inuincible in respect of all other natiōs , she is now her self so imbased , vanguished & ouerthrown , which is the fruit that this venemous plant of new opinion hath induced which seemeth to be at the poynt ready to giue more dangerous thrusts , if according to to the expectation which we all haue conceiued of your wisedome & piety , it pleseth not your maiesty spedely to take order therein ; much more was vttered to this effect showing the opinion which they haue for any tolleratiō of diuers religions , which since some of thē in other places haue been well content earnestly to sollicit that they might obtaine , it was the error of s. austin , to thinke that men by violence ought not to be cōpelled to the faith ▪ but after seing many cities of the donatists conuerted by the imperiall lawes , and returning to the true church , he thought seuerity fit to be vsed , where linity , and mercy would doe no good . the next are heretikes who are neither simple infidels , nor idolatours , but obstinately erring in some fundamental point , these neither faile all alike nor fall all at once for the beginnings to slide in this case are easie , & thought to be without dāger , whereas in the end it is deadly , & such proue apostataes frō the whole church . the arrians & the nouatians the one denying the diuinite of christ , the other repentance vnto those that sin , were not hoth a like dangerous , although both by the church were condemned as hereticks . ● . cyprians opinion , & some other in africa , who held such as were baptised by heretickes , that they ought to be baptized againe , and some peraduenture amongst vs , whose errors concerning our church , are not lesse dangerous , are to be respected by the magistrate in a different manner , from such heresies as arrius held ; with these , perswasions & conferences are to be vsed , after which if they continue obstinate , excommunication ( the censure of the church ) is to cut them off , wherein notwithstanding to auoide tumults if their number were dangerous , like the nouatians in s. chrisostomes time , it were lawfull & conuenient for the gouernors of the church to be at peace with them , the ecclesiasticall authoritie ayming at this scope , rather to build than to pull downe . concerning the fourth which only doo , or seeme to erre , in some point , that commeth not so far to be thought an heresie , doubtlesse a greater moderation is befitting such , and violent condemnations are vnlawfull , vntill both haue bene heard with indifferēt tryal . inuectiues , alienations of minde , partaking & such like are both scandalous to the church , enemies to peace , and in the end are little auaileable to find the truth . it were fit al to be of one mind vntil more warrātable proceedings might resolue our doubts ; let vs therfore as many as be perfect be thus minded , & if ye be otherwise minded , god shal reueile euen the same vnto you & after this whosoeuer he is that seeketh further , hauing found a truth , laboureth but with paines to inuēt an error . their diligence if it were vpright , the church cold not refuse ; of whom now it is like shee may say ( as one doth of the accusers of priscillian ) their desire to ouerthrowe heretikes , i could not reprehend , if they had not contended more thā was fitting to ouercōe ; what mildnes they haue vsed , we take it as the speech of the donatists , who as s. austin reporteth , said they wold not be cruel , but i think they could not : no mā coūteth that beast meekest which hurteth not , bccause teeth & claws are denied him : but if any man be ignorant , and desire to know , what courses haue beene taken with these men whom we cannot defend and the state of our church hath supposed to erre ; whilst ouer eagerly they haue sought a reformatiō of some things we are content for defence of our selues , in not yeelding to all which they demanded of vs , and most earnestly frō the purified example of some other church , to let them know , that the church of england , being to enter into a considetion of those lawes , which were thought fit to bee altered , concerning matter of religion , knew by experience both at home , and abroad , that howsoeuer the best humane lawes haue much imperfection annexed to them , yet ouergreat or ouerspeedy alteration , could neither argue much wisedome , nor be thought safe . for to alter lawes of continuāce and especially in this kinde , must needs with the common sort , impaire and weaken the force of those grounds whereby lawes are esteemed to haue greatest strength . for if we haue neither voyce from heauen ( the ground of the first alteration in the apostles time ) that pronounceth them fit to be thus chaunged ; neither sentence of wise men , built vpon manifest euil ; nor cleare proofe that they in whose hands it is to alter them , may likewise infallibly euen in hart and conscience iudge them so ; vpon necessitie to vrge alteration , is without necessitie , to trouble and to weaken the whole stare . but such is the lot of all that deale in publike affaires , whether of church or commonwealth , that which men list to surmise of their doings , be it good or ill , they must before hand , arme their minde to indure it with much patiēce . now if it were a fault in the church of rome , through a loue to some thing that is harmles , obstinately to maintaine what is not lawfull ; had it not been an imputation to our church frō the dislike of those things , which were neither warrantable , nor iust , to proceede to an alteration of such , as in the iudgement of the best vndoubtedly were both . but when experience shal haue showed the seueral fruits of both kinds of reformatiō , as well moderate with vs , as violent rigorous and extreame in other churches , it is the voice of truth wil expresse it selfe , euen from their consciences ; we are they that haue hindered the happinesse of the church of england ; for the way of peace haue we not knowne . in the meane while not to aduise those , whose authoritie is powerfull , and their wisedome excellent , wee canne but wish suspence of iudgement , and exercise of charitie , to those that doe thinke otherwise , adutie much safer and seemelier for christian men , than the ouer hote , and violent pursuit , of these controuersies , wherein they that are most feruent to dispute , be not alwaies the most able to determine ; now for the last of those which we tearmed professours of religion in a sound manner , as honor and respect is their merit , so doubtlesse in this kingdome at this time if they be humble , obedient , and patient , they can want neither . thus much we haue written , not that we take vpon vs either to prescribe vnto the prince what he may , or to direct the state what they ought to performe in this case , but plainely to deliuer our owne weake opinion which very willingly in all humilitie we submit to the censure of this church . an humble conclusion , to his sacred maiestie and the right honorable lords of his highnes priuie counsell together with the rest whom it may concerne to defend this church . chap. v. it is not the least happines to a kingdome ( if it be not of temporal felicities the greatest ) to haue a king euery way so inabled , that euerie mans particular case is like enough to come to his particular view ; for nature hath made all men to beare with greater moderatiō that done , which proceedeth from those who doe and ought to gouern , than frō others ; & grace ( euen that grace that cōmeth frō aboue ) hath inspired a greater feeling of each mans particular want & a better vnderstanding of some mens eminent worthines than can be expected from those ( how wise soeuer ) who act but the parts of politicke men , in the habits of obedient and moderate aduisers , where it is like no man will be ouerforward to benefit any priuate man two much , seeing the commendation of whatsoeuer is well done must of necessitie be equally diuided amongst many ; neither hath vertue ( howe well soeuer deseruing ) in all kingdomes , found alwaies that equal fauour at vertuous mens hands , which both she might haue expected & in reason was due vnto her , because a timorous disposition in al , maketh euery man feare , that nothing can be added to another mans greatnes , which must needs serue at the length , to make his seeme lesse , because of lesse vse ; now the greatest burden vpon earth ( gracious and right honorable ) ( next the burden of a troubled conscience ) lyeth ( as ye well know ) vpon his shoulders who gouerneth a nation , rich , wise , valiant and by reason of all these peraduenture proud , surely howsoeuer wisemen haue thought all authoritie a care ( because many must of necessitie want many helpes ) both to relieue things past , to satisfie things present , & to preuent things to come ; ( which no man without care can doe , and few with it , ) yet surely ouer those who are either simple , or poore , or seruile , or cowardly , the gouernment cannot be troublesome , seeing he commandeth those ouer whom a litle reasō is much , & weaknes & feare haue denied thē libertie to examine what is well or ill done ; this alone made that easie passage of the portingales and the spaniards into the indiaes , which against a nation of lesse wealth , or circuit , furnished with more vnderstanding , had doubtles been vnpossible , if the forces of both kingdomes had been vnited ; such is the willingnes to resist in the defence of auncient libertie , where the reason of man by ciuill education , hath power to discern the qualitie of that which it doth defende . but in those who are of a contrarie nature , & will dare to do much because they would seeme not to vnderstand little , there to take a crowne , is to take a heauie burdē , & to gouerne is to rule men , where euerie particular danger of moment must haue a remedie , vnlesse they will hazard by the contēpt of some few , the ruine of the whole state ; this consideration made dioclesian , ( who was neither the best nor the happiest that euer gouernd ) thinke truely , that there was nothing harder than to rule well . for if they shall either commit all to others ( which no king whose nation was happie euer did ) or take all vpon themselues , in both they shall finde ( if not equall ) yet the like , certaine , & vnresistable danger , therfore well said saturninus to those that put on his kingly ornamēts ; frends , ye know not what an euil it is to rule , many dāgers hang ouer our heads ; for where in other cases feare maketh mē watch , in this men vsually feare those that watch ouer them . i know not a better securitie in this for the kingdom ( god make vs all thankefull that it hath beene our happines ) than a good prince , nor for the prince than a good counsell , nor for all , than profitable and religious lawes . these only are left vppon earth from men to be the strength and supporters to those that rule ouer greate kingedomes . it is true which tacitus saith , that the most weightie labours of a prince stand in need of the greatest helps ; therefore as tyrāts in al ages haue loathed nothing so much as good counsaile , bestowing the greatest honors & riches ( the iust recōpence of vertue ) vpon the worst persons ( whose vices serued only to make them forget thēselues and to ruinate the kingdome ouer which they gouernd ( so the best & wisest , haue euer made choise of such , as were fit to be eies , & eares , nay tongues & hands , all to be imployed for the common good ; for seldome ( saith one ) shall we see great men , not to haue the assistance of great counsaile ; to gouerne a great fortune ; nay there cannot be in a prince , a greater argument of wisedome nor a greater safetie to the church and the common-wealth , than in making his choice of a wise councill ; some are of opinion that the chiefest reason why rome florished so long , was principally this , because they that gouernd her followed not their owne , but the counsaile of the whole senate . neither saith augustus , could any of these thinges ( meaning the troubles of his house that break out ) haue happened vnto me , if agrippa , or maecenas ( two wise counsellours ) had now liued ; for doubtles there is not a better instrument of a happie kingdome than a wise and vertuous counsellour , who not vnfitly may be tearmed ( as tacitus calleth him ) the ornament of peace . surely no lesse necessarie to a state that would florish , than the soule to a bodie that would liue . the consideration of this happines at this time maketh both the church & the cōmonwealth ( dread souereigne & right honorable lords ) to cast themselues at your feet , and to lay open before your eyes , the daungers which they feare ( without your gracious assistāce ) may fall vpon them . and howsoeuer many other things of vse & moment , are like wheeles in this kingdome , to stirre at your honors motion , yet religion it selfe , in the habit of the church , religion that hath infinitely blest you , & this kingdome , doth earnestly intreat that against all her enemies , publike , or priuate , shee may rest , florish and be fruitfull , by your meanes ; and howsoeuer the common-wealth may now be an humble suppliāt for redresse of those grieuances that offend her , yet aboue all other the church had most cause to feare , that the time of a second consultation , either through violence importunitie and sleight , might haue beene fatall to her , or that the contempt of his voyce in the dayes of peace , might haue in iustice , procured a scourge from the almightie to cause her to remember whom shee had despised ; the seuerall times for all states ( either to vse or to knowe their strength ) are peace , and warre , and the two professions that are the safetie of both are the militarie and the gowne : it is no small care , nor wisedome for a realme , to knowe when and with whom to fight , and to thinke not onely vpon defence ( which were enough had it as much honor as safetie ) but vpon victorie ; surely in a kingdome carelesse of these men , the king may oftener fight than ouercome ; and in his best successe peraduenture be more beholding to fortune , than to his good counsaile ; who surely of all other howsoeuer the warre be ended , is most innocent , and furthest from all blame , yet it is strange to see how all men lay the faults of their inconsiderate folly , rather vpon any thing than vpon themselues . so that ignorance of true causes , giuing the name to fortune , men are willing to hide that with obscuring the cause ( calling it chaunce ) which only proceeded frō their want of counsaile , which wheresoeuer it is , it leaueth no power either in peace or warre , vnto that which they call fortune ; i confesse sometimes there is a higher cause ( that iustice which our sins awake ) which taketh strength from the best meanes , and maketh the errors of princes & their counsell , the foundatiō of publike calamities ; but our purpose is not at this time to pleade for any other sauing onely for this church ; for the happinesse whereof it seemeth that good lawes heretofore haue not beene so much wanting to vs , as wee to them . in penall lawes surely there is the greatest wisedome , of those that make them , and the greatest presumption , of those that breake them ; so that for the safetie of all states , but especially of the church , there are few things of greater aduantage thā the seueritie of iustice in the strict execution of penall lawes ; for it is straunge that some inconueniences should first cause them seeme fit to be made , and no disorder make them seeme necessarie to be obserued ; i thinke no other reason can be giuen but this , that those lawes doe hire men with halfe the allowance to be informers , which makes that good seruice to the commonwealth , only in that respect odious , as being not the effect of iustice , and zeale , but the vnconscionable desire of some couetous promoter , the best remedie in this , will be to referre the benefit of these , to some publike vse ( for it is meete that vertue be maintained from the penaltie of vice ) and that such be seruants to the state in the executiō of these lawes , as are furthest from partialitie and pittie , & yet least to be suspected for vnsatiable desiring of their own gaine . but there is a greater defect in most kingdomes , ( wherein this church is an humble suter to your highnesse ) that it would please your grace ( a thing absolutely hoped for at your maiesties hands ) as well to reward those that deserue well , as to punish those that are dangerous to the church or the commonwealth ; doubtlesse there is no politike consideration of greater vse , in a kingdome , that all parts of it may florish , than the iust bestowing of these two , reward and punishment ; seeing they are the spurre and the bridle , absolutely requisit for the right commanding of a whole realme . and surely it is a great question , whether to the happinesse of a state it be safer to want punishment for the euill , or rewards for the vertuous ; but seeing all kingdomes haue greater feeling , and can better iudge of what is euill than well done , therefore punishments are by the lawe due to the one , whereas the other is many times a matter of great suit , fauour , and sometimes of infinite corruption , which the best and most worthy obseruing , they are in al likelihood furthest from being preferred , because least subiect to such corruption . it was an honorable farewell the last deanry that was giuen by queene elizabeth : honorab●e to him that procured it freely ( as i heard ) of his owne motion ; honorable to him that had it without al corruptiō ( neither in acquitting of him do i condēn al others ) and most honorable to her , who no sooner heard of a man worthy but was most willing to preferre him : there are few things of a greater aduantage to the church , than to haue the eyes of the prince ( if sometimes his occasions diuert him otherwise ) drawne to looke at men of very speciall and singular deserte : who peraduenture are neither so corrupt , so fortunate , so seasonable , so well frended , nor indeed so any thing ( sauing only worthy ) that they can obtaine that , which men of farre meaner deserts ( if not easily ) yet commonly doe . and surely for vs of the church there is not out of the vniuersitie ( excepting the kings chappell ) a better stand for the nobilitie , to take ●ew of such , than the sermons at pauls crosse : this being sincerely lookt at , vertue shall haue incouragment to take paines , because vertuous paines shall be sure to haue recompence : a thing , where it wanteth that want must of necessitie fill all places with the worst , and the worst disposed . so shall men that are worthy , and very excellent , be preferred either slowly , or not at all , whilst euery ignorant , vnhonest , vnprofitable flatterer , shall depart loaden with the best preferments , ( the due recompence that belongs to vertue : ) for redresse whereof i dare not take vpon me to aduise , only i wish that they ( especially the honorable and reuerend bishops , fathers of the church ) who haue any stroake , in the disposition of such preferments , as appertaine vnto learned men , would be thinke themselues , what it is to respect any thing , either aboue or besides merit , considering ( as one well noteth ) how hardly the world taketh it , when to men of commendable note and qualitie , there is so little respect had , or so great vnto them whose deserts are very meane , that nothing doth seeme more straunge , than the one sort because they are not accounpted of , and the other because they are ; it being euery mans hope , and expectatiō that the only purchase of greater rewards should be alwaies greater deserts , & that nothing should euer be able to plāt a thorne , where a vine ought to growe , or to commit that to a fox , or an asse , which requireth the strength & the toyle of the painful ox : the careful obseruatiō of this , ( which the church humbly intreateth at your graces hands ) shal roote out all idolatours from your lands ; banish all heretikes from christs fold , which steale in like rauenous wolues ; discouer those anabaptists who stirre vp contentions to hinder religion , labour to haue magistrates contemned , inueying against the lawfull ordination of our clergie , accounting them to be but scribes and pharisies , idle , haue too great liuings : flatterers of the ciuill magistrate , saying the reformation of the church , is not spirituall enough & perfect , and their vnhallowed & priuate conuenticles are more holy , making their pretence of all , the puritie of the gospell ; these pretend grauitie , reprehend seueritie , speake gloriously , and all in hypocrisie : these dayly inuent newe opinions , and run from error , to error : their wilfulnes they account constancie , their deserued punishment persecution ; their mouthes are euer open to speake euill , they giue neither reuerence , nor titles , to any in place aboue them ; in one word the church cannot feare a more dangerous and fatall enemie to her peace and happines , a greater cloud to the light of the gospell , a stronger hand to pull in barbarisme , and pouertie , into all our la●d , a more furious monster , to breed contempt , and disobedience in all states ; a more fretting cankar to the very marrowes and sinewes of this church , and kingdome , than the anabaptist ; who is proud without learning , presumptuous without authoritie , zealous without knowledge , holy without religion ; in one word a dangerous and malicious hypocrite . sundrie of these m●nifest and violent disturbers of the peace of this church and the common-wealth , were banished from amongst vs in the dayes of out late souereigne , we heare they are returnd ; they make petitions , they hope for fauour . consided ( great and mightie prince ) ( right honorable lords and all yee whom it may concerne to defend this state ) that now is the time to make and execute lawes against them : for these are more daungerous than other heretikes , because they are transformed into the shapes of some amongst vs ; the church of england , which lyeth prostrate at your graces feet , desireth not to be fauoured in her errors , not to haue her corruptions warranted by authoritie , to haue staines not washed , because shee hath had them long : to haue idolatrie and superstition harbored in her bosome : to be loadē in her religiō with the inuentions of man and vnhalowed ceremonies , to be supported with a prophane hierarchie , an vsurping dominion : to bee poysoned with humane learning , to be murdered with idle , and vnpreaching ministers ; but she humbly intreats , ( showing her wounds , with teares in her eyes , sights in her hart , humilitie in her whole behauiour ) that she may be defended , protected , and armed in that truth , which christ and his apostles haue taught her ; which queene elizabeth hath cherished & maintained in her : which the earth hath wondered at , & heauens haue blessed ; that her beautie may not be defaced vnder pretence of washing : that she may not be left naked of her comely , decent , and religious ceremonies : that the gouernment of her bishops , ( auncient , warrantable , and safe , ) may not be taken from her ; that her schooles may florish with all sacred , and heathen learning : that her ministers may be painefull and liberally maintained ; and last of all , that the liturgie , so vertuous , so holy , for which so many martyrs of hers haue dyed , restored in the dayes of king edward , continued in the gratious and happie dayes of queene elizabeth , may by your princely authoritie ( seeing all the learned of your kingdome are readie in the defence of it ) be strongly and vnresistably maintained against her enemies ; so shall we account it a second birth day to our countrie : a day of grace and saluation wherein god hath sworne by his holinesse that hee will not faile you : and therefore to this ende hath preuented you with the blessings of goodnesse and set a crowne of pure gold vpon your head , a day wherein the nations that are round about vs , shall say as hyram when hee heard the words of salomon ; blessed be the lord this day , which hath giuen vnto dauid a wise sonne ouer this mightie people ; vnto queene elizabeth an heire of her owne house and linage , full of religion , wisedome and vnderstanding ; so that we may truely say ( as they did ) doubtlesse we haue seene straung things this day ; straunge to our countrie , to ourselues , to our enemies , to haue neighbours , to our prosteritie ; for which our harts burne within vs ( and shall for euer with feruencie of deuotion for your highnesse safetie ) our mouthes are filled with laughter , and our tongues with ioy ; and we must needes confesse with the prophet dauid , the lord hath done great things for vs alreadie whereof we reioyce ; for which we intreate the heauens to reioyce with vs ; the earth to be glad , and the sea to make a noyse , and all that therein is , the compasse of the round world and they that dwell therein ; for by this means innumerable benefits are common vnto them ; to the heauen a multitude of saints , to the earth peace , to the sea treasure , to the fields plentie , for god hath broken the rod of the wicked , and the whole land is at rest : and surely if euer natiō of the world had cause either to hope for happines to this church and commonwealth , or to giue thankes vnto the lord , and to that ende to fall low vpon our knees before his footestoole , it is we ; to haue a king , but which is greater happinesse , of the same blood : nay more than that , of the same religion : but most of all , without bloodshed , and especially ( then ) when all the politikes of the world , had set our period , & rung our passing bell : euen thē by your highnesse meanes the lord himselfe ( for we must al acknowledge that it was his worke ) deliuered our soule from death , our eyes from teares and our feet from falling : our soule from bodily , and spirituall death , our eyes from teares , arising from our daunger , ( nay from our holy teares for our late souereigne : ) & our feete from falling into troubles , which then were present : into sinne , which then was likely ; into blindnesse which then we feared : into shame , which we all deserued : into misery , which many hoped : but we say againe the lord hath done great things for vs alreadie : and greater , and far greater shall doe , if we be not vnthankefull : and therefore howsoeuer thou art , either iesuite , or preest , anabaptist , protestant , or atheist , which sayst in thy heart , let vs make hauocke of them altogether , thou shalt so dianly consume and perish , and come to a fearefull ende : and the church shall continually intreate , at the hands of the lord of heauen , and humbly before the throne of your gratious maiestie , for protection against her , and all your aduersaries , saying , o deliuer not the soule of the turtle doue vnto the multitude of the enemies , and forget not the congregation of the poore for euer ; looke vpon the couenant , for al the earth is full of darkenesse and cruell habitations ; o let not the simple goe away ashamed , but let the poore and needy giue praise vnto thy name : a rise ( o god ) maintaine thy own cause , remēber how the foolish man blasphemeth thee dayly : forget not the voyce of thy enemie , the presumption of them that hate thee , increaseth euer more and more . amen . finis . this epistle following is here annexed , and thought fit to be printed because the dedication of this booke was first intended vnto the late right honorable and right reuerend father the lord archbishop of canterburie his grace . to the most reuerend father in god , my very good lord , the lord archbishop of canterburie his grace , primate and metropolitan of all england . what benefit ( right reuerend ) this church hath receiued by your graces meanes , ( god bessing your counsell vnder the gouernment of two great princes ) as this age present doth sensiblie perceiue , so the memorie thereof shal be honorable in the time to come . for when the vertuons gouernment of our late souereigne , had banished from all parts of her kingdome the tyrannie and superstitiō of the church of rome , some men ( fit instruments to disturbe the peacefull happinesse of this land ) fearefull as it seemed of the dangers that might follow , and impatient of that forme of gouernment which mercy and wisedome had planted for the churches safetie , laboured by meanes , ouer violent , and vnholy , to bring in ( perhaps from the partiall loue to the orders of those churches which comfortably refresht them in the time of banishment ) a presbiteriall discipline ; both of them ( notwithstanding ) following a diuers shape of the ecclesiasticall state in diuers times ; the one in peace , the other in persecution , neither of them both , doubtlesse , ( circumstances being weighed ) either warranted by truth or answerable to these times ; the one labouring , to ouerload vs , with an intollerable burden of humane traditions ( polliticke inuentions to make an outward greatnesse whilst inwardly religion must needs ●aile ) the other to strippe her , as naked as the day wherein shee was first borne ; discouraging her teachers , by robbing them of honour and maintenaunce ; traducing that learning , wherein many of our reuerend fathers were equall to any in any part of the world besides , and in steade of these , making the church to doe pennance for her wontonnesse in the dayes of superstition , being left vnpitied , desolate , ignorant , and without honour ; all their purposes tending to this end , to make vs had in dirision of all those that were rounde about vs ; thus these two enemies in our owne bosome , looking both of them with enuie at your happinesse , and with ielosie at that fauour , which we might be suspected to beare towards either of them ; their discentions were not so violent to each other , as they both were cruell and daungerous to our peace ; as if ephraim , and manasses , had made a truce , and both of them concluded to deuour iuda ; at this time your lordship ( for lawes and authoritie had restrayned the one ) vndertooke the defence of this church gouernment , against the other ; wherein doubtlesse if your great wisedome and moderation , had not like another athanasius , indured the furie and rage of this vnbridled multitude , wee might ●●stly haue feared , that disorder and barbarisme would haue tyrannously possest long since , the worthiest and most beautifull parts of our whole land . and as doubtlesse it was happie for the church that you vndertooke by writing , the defence of this cause , ( seeing no man could haue done it either better , or with lesse exception ) so the day of your admission to the sea of canterburie , is , and was ( in all likelihood ) ( next vnto our late souereigne ) the forciblest meanes , and the best securitie , this church then could hope for to procure her peace ; neither can the clergie of this land , but in dutie and thankefulnesse , offer vp continually , their zealous and deuout prayers , for all blessings to come downe , and light , and rest vpon his sacred maiestie , and vpon his royall posteritie to many thousand generations , for those princely fauours , which his highnesse extending to you , giueth , as vndoubted assurance to all vs , of the peace , prosperitie and happinesse , of this church ; i haue often with my selfe thought , that the greatest riches and most to be valued , which our late souereigne left vnto his princely maiestie with the lawfull inheritance of this kingdome , was a learned and deuout clergie ; a wise and religious counsell ; an honorable , and auncient nobilitie ; valiant and discreet leaders ; rich and louing citizens ; painfull and diligent husbandmen ; in one word , a people not in any vertue inferour to any nation of the earth ; and for loyaltie , and obedience ( be it spoken without enuie ) aboue them all ; yet in the happinesse of all this , there haue not beene since wanting , which earnestly haue sought to ouerthrow the state of this church ; we know not their intentions , the world seeth they are cunning to doe , and to speake euill ; and whatsoeuer may seeme auaileable to further their cause , wanteth not the best aduantage , that any opportunitie can giue vnto them ; in which respect it is all our duties , who desire the peace of this church , & prosperitie of the commonwealth , no way to be wanting , to the reasonable , iust , and honest defence of a good cause ; in regard whereof , though by many degrees i am the vnworthiest of a great number , who haue , and are readie , to write in the defence of this church ( the aduersaries in this cause hauing receiued the first & greatest wounds from your pen ) yet my care amongst the rest was , to imploy my labour , according to that abilitie which god hath giuen me , in the modest defence , of the gouernment of this church . which hauing beene handled so often , and so learnedly heretofore , it ought not to seeme straunge to any , and i hope , will be pardoned at your hand , if wee gather but the gleanings after those , that plentifully haue sown , and haue reaped before vs. whatsoeuer my labour , and trauell hath beene in this , it is due vnto your grace , whose manifold , continued , and vndeserued fauours , together with my priuate dutie , challengeth me & my whole seruice , by a greater nearenesse , than that law ; yee shall bring a sheafe of the first fruites of your haruest vnto the priest. thus hartely desiring your lordships fauourable acceptance of this paines , how small soeuer , with my continuall prayers , for the long preseruation of your graces health , and honor , to the comfort of a great number , and the singular blessing of this church , euen through the mercies of him , in whom we all liue , moue , and haue our being , i humbly take my leaue . your graces in all dutie . william covell . faults escaped . in epist. didte . line the 1. for the word read the world. page 4 line . ●1 for blould 〈◊〉 boldnesses p : 5 l. 2 : for vsull r. vsuall p. 6 l. ●● . for to ●amer to the same p 7. 〈◊〉 2. for a●henian r. athenians . p 8. l. 8 for outward r. outwardly . l. 〈◊〉 for w●res r warres . l. ●7 for these word r. the sword . p. 9. l. 9. for as 1 is . l 22. for inhabit r. inable , l. ●3 for to r. of l. 38. for nor least r nor of least p 13. l. 2. for putrified r. purified p. 15. l. vlt for but time r. but in time . p. 16 l ● . for per●aps . r. perhaps . l. 9 for g●eauent geauen l. 26. for cod r. god p. 18. l. vlt. for to the rest r. to reft p. 20 l. 1. for eternall r. externall . l. 30. for a little r. so litle . p. 11. l. 21. in ma●g for pennies r. penries p. 26. l 12. for cerefull r. carefull l. 14 for continue . r. conuince . p. 27. l. 5. for were 1. we are l. 31 for with r which p. 50 l. 7 for only r. one . l 24 for receiue . r rcuiue . l. 25. for dwiseome r. wisedome p. 51. l. 3. fercentention r. contention . p. 52. l. 6. for propanenes r. prophanenes . l 9. for redemption r. repetition p. 53. l. ●1 for fruction r , function l. 13. for their r her p 56 l. 18. for them r t●en . p. 59. l. 2. for her r. their p 6● . l. 17. for continued , r. contemned . p 62. l 27. for of r and p. 67. l. 27. for vscan r. vs ● cā . p. 82. l. 28. for grayer r. gray . p. 83. l. 15. for they that r. that they p. 85 l. 37. for giuen r. giuing . p. 124 l. 5. for mediation r. meditation . p. 125. l. 11 for disuict . r. distinct . p. 16 l 9. for vluen r. when . p . 127. l. 29. for exart . r. exhort . p. 129. l. 34 for were r. we are . p. 134. l. 34. for both . r loth p. 137. l. 34. in marg . for par●re r parere . p. 143. l. 22. for person r. persons . l. 26. fo● be●ng r● bring p. 144 l 6 , for either the other r either , the other . l. 33. for occafion r. occasion . p. 145. l. 8. for vs r. as . p. 146 , l. 34. for thought r. though . p. l. 147. 19. for reuerent . r. reuerence l. 29 for others r. either p. 162. l 2. for pulralities r plural ; p. 164. l. 26. for extragauāts r. extrauagants p. 165. l. 19. in marg . for cōmumis r. communis l 29. in marg , for quam vis r. quamuis . p 189 l 13. for codly r godly , l. 17 , for disented r. dissented l , vult for ghurches r. churches , p. 186. l. 27. for vgre r. ●rge p , 187. l. 23. in marg . for cominis r. communis p. 190 l. 7. for mamerces r. m●merc●s , p. 191. l , 17. for the the first r. the fifth , p. 192 , l. 33 in ma●g . for disperandi r. desiderandi , p , 194 , l. 27 , for abased , r , abu●ed . p. 196 , l. 14 , for patience r. patience . l , 15 , for councell r , counsaile p. 197. l , 14. for chieffly r , chiefly , notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a19461-e480 the late lord archbishop of canterburie . notes for div a19461-e560 haec est charitas expectanda , haec est charitas maior imperio , si fides tuta sit qu● seruat imperium . ambrose . ep . 31. ad valentinianū . the assertion for church policie . eccles. 32. iob. 32. iosua . 22.16.17 . vers. 22. apud christianos non qui patitur , sed qui facit contumelians miser est . hier. vi●t qui patitur . in bona consc●entiateneo , quisguis volens detra●it fame meae , nolens addi● merced● meae . ne aestimet quis plus ponderis esse in alienoconuitio quam in testimoni● suo . ambrose . notes for div a19461-e950 a by ios●●s nichols in the plea of the innocent . pag. 135. psal. 2.10 . rom. 13.1 . pet , 2. ier. 26. t.c. in his second reply . d. sutcliffe . in their eccles. dis . notes for div a19461-e3300 1. tim. 3. hebr. 12. coloss. 1. 1. cor. 14. 2. cor. 4. hebr. 13. luke . 10. basil. in psal. 33 eph. 4. math. 7. maister hooker . 2. chro. 2.5 . iob. 10.12 . deut. 23.7 . cassina . de incar 〈◊〉 lib. 1. cap. 6. numb . 16. knox to the communaltie fol. 49.50 . ibid. fol. 55. bertrā . pag. 15 morna . pag. 37 calvin inst. lib. 4 , 1.9 . t.c. his second reply . pag. 53. penrie ● epist. before the humblmotion . suppl . to the parliament . pag. 67. gilbyes dial : pag. 151. admonit . pa. 34. nich , in the plea of the innoc , p. 130. my lord his grace of canterbury . doctor bilson . doctor sutcliff . master hooke , & many other . iohn . 13. cyprian de ablutione pedum . 1 cor. 11. notes for div a19461-e4320 ludere in verbis & dormitare in sensibus . si merito obiurgauerit te aliquis , scito quia profuit ; si immerito , scito quia prodesse voluit . seneca . poem●ita . eccles. 3.7 . priests & iesuits not feigned . silendi patientia oportunitas loqueudi , contemptus diuitiarum , sunt maxima fundamenta virtutum ; hier epist . preface . b. 2. aperte inuidet , abiecte fingit , seruiliter superbis sidon . lib. 2. epist. plea : pag. 10. line : 5. ibid. pag. 10. line . 5. fenner philips . pag. 60. ad . 59 ▪ pag. 68. reuerend fathers in the cōtents of the 5. chap. pag. 232. pag. 110. pag. 113. omnia cū liceāt , non licet esse bonum . preface to the demōstr . a , 4 pag. 120. from pag 45. to 47. which were handled from 17. to 27. and againe in pag. 73.78.79 . from 124.129 pag 53. lin . 13. writed pag. 53 l. 2. vndeceable milk . pag. 9 lin . 20. pag. 8. lin . 18. d. whitaker for his priuat kindnesse ; non viuā si quid vnquā viderim dissolutius as pene puerilius . indignus est quia quopiam docto refutetur . notes for div a19461-e5030 sentētia ; vestras prodinisse superasse est . hiero. ai ctesiphont . grego . tholosse . de rep. lib. 13. cap. 3. sect. 2. in proemio clement . s.s. h●c sane . the plea of the innocent . suruay of discipline . danger : posit . m hooker in his preface to his first booke . d. sutclisf . that of queen matie and of those reform . goodman . pag. 73.74.77 . aut agendumi aut patien●● . goodman of obedince . pag. 99 , 103. whitingame . the iesuites . martyres st●lt● philosophiae by gilby . 1.5 . vtalle thro●mor . pe●ry &c. a presbitarie erected at wandsworthin surrey . 1572 noue . 20 bene quod malitia non habet tantos vires quantas conatus . hieron . lib. 2. contr . ruffin dange . pos . pag 137. humble motion , pag 39. danger . posit . suruey of discip . i know not any thing we did in our meetings or in our supplications or apologeriall writings but that which was comely for men of our sort . m. nick. in the plea. pag. 29. lin . 24. the protest . in england be in a maner in hart al puritās . bristow in his motiue● . 40. the lo. archbishop of canterbury . whitgift . pag. 11. lin . 23. sulp. seu. epit. hist. eccles : mundanos potius q●am mundos . ios. nich in the plea. pag. 11 , ●in . 14. pag. 31. lin . 6.33 . lin . 23. pag. 53. lin . 2 pag. 5925. pag. 58. lin . 19. pag. 71. lin . 1. pag. 100. l. 19. pag. 103. lin . 7. pag. 114. l. 28. pag. 80. lin . 22. pag. 120. lin . 7. notes for div a19461-e6440 phil. 2.1 . prou. 26.1 . gen. 13.1 . in the plea. of the innoc. pag. 83. l. 3. ib. plea. pag. 84. lin . 2. plea. pag. 96 line 4. thom. aq● . 22. quest . 38. act . 1. 2 , tim. 2 24 : vers ▪ 25. 1. tim. 6.4 . 2. timoh . 2.54 iame. 3.6 . 1. cor. 11.16 . 1 : de eo quod non . 2 : modo quo non . 3 : loco : 4 : personis . luke . 22. maist. hooker . lawyers may . 1. cor. 3.3 . prou. 20.3 . maist. nichols in his plea. a rom. 14.4 . b nihil interest quo animo facimus quod vitiosum est fecisse , quia facta cernūtur , a●●imus nō videtnr . c nulla enim l. ●●● est n●● facere quod facere non ●ossis . senec. mat. 2. emendare non quiescit si emēdare non potest , tollerat , et gemit . aug. zealus liuoris , non amoris . math. 21 , numb . 25.7 , exod. 32. 1. king. 18.4 . zelatores . ioseph . lib. 5. de bells iudaico . cap. 5. et lib. 6. cap. 1.2 . prou. 17.1 1. timoth. 6.4.5 . iame. 1.20 . iame. 3.16.17 . gen. 13. ● . gen. 16.9 . rom. 16.17 . 18. gal. 5.26 . iames. 3.16 , 17 18 notes for div a19461-e7670 secundae intentiones legis . iam. 1.27 . encherid . cap. 3. matth. 11. gal. 5. iudicidia sunt moralia in ordine ad proximum . ceremonialia sunt moralia in ordine ad deum . 1. sam. 15.22 . ios. 5. 1. mach. 6. & 7. liu●e . lib. 5. val. max. li. 1.1 a carendo , aug. lib. 2. retract , cap. 37. gell. lib. 4.9 . mocrob . satur. lib. 2. cap. 3 , nec disciplina vlla in his melior graui prudentique christiano quam vt eo mod● agat quo agere viderit ecclesia ad quamcunque deuenerit . aug. epist. 118. luke . 18. matth. 18. ipsa quippe mutatio consuetudinis etiam quae adiu●at vtilitate nouitate perturbat . aug. 1 , tim. 1.5.6.7 . rom. 13.10 . 1. cor. 13.4 . zanch. in 4. praecep . pag : 696. religiosum a relinquendo , massarius s●binus in gell : lib : 4 : cap : 9 : 1. cor. 9. deut. 14.2 . 1. sam. 2.17 . luther in lib. de pijs cermonijs . melanch . loc . cō . nihil ordinatum est quod precipitatur et properat . sen. epist. 40 a thowsend . rom. 13. 2. cor. 13. hedr . 13. in quibu●●ee ego dissentire a nostris salua gratia , ●ec consentite sal●a conscientia possum . sen. epist. 117 : euseb. lib. 5. cap. 25. epiph. heres . 70. athanas. in epist. de synod . a●imin . & seleuciae . can. 1. epiph. baer . 50. aust. haeres . 29. theodor. lib. 3. august . haeres . 23. epiphan . b.er. 46. incrementa lente exeunt ; sestinatur in damnum ; nibil stabile est tumultuantibus causis , mala v●de minimè expectabantur erumpunt . sen. epist. 91. quam magnu● mirantium tam magnus innidentium . sen. de vita beata . caluin instit. lib. 4. cap. 10.27 . aug. lib. 9. contr . faust. mani●b . cap. 11. theologus . plato in dial. de regno . exod. 18.20 . basil. epist. 63. leo. epist. 4. innoc. epist. 1. placendum est diuinis oculis & habitu corporis & modo vocis ; cypr. in s●r. de . orat . do● . lib. de coron . militis . 1. cor. 14.40 . wisd. 8.7 . nichols in the plea. pag 16. lin . 1.9 . nichols in the plea of the innoc pag. 43. lin . 10. marke the word all . nichols pag. 91. lin . 27. pag. 92. lin . 17. nichols in the plea pag. 124. lin . 18. nichols . pag. 91.27 . tenue est 〈◊〉 , perlucet si dili●enter inspe●eris . se●ec . nich pag 171 lin . 9. reformatio est repetitio vel restitutio facti antiqui . in pro●m . clement . lib. 3. §. penult . de itiner . act . 1. august . ad publicolam . epist. 154. multum egerunt qui ante nos fuerunt , sed non peragerunt . senec. epist. 65. catonem non intellexit ciuitas nisi cum perdidit . inuadit temperatissimos morbus ; innocentissimos paena ; secretissimos tumultus . sen. epist. 91. reade the discourse of the troubles begun at franckford , 1555. about the book of common prayer and ceremonies . this letter was subscribed with 17. hands whereof knox , whittingam , and fox were three . this letter written , decemb . 13. 1554. this letter was subscribed with eleuen of their hands , wherof knox , gil●y , whittingam , and goodman were foure . from these ; horn. d. cox. d. sands and diuers o●hers did not nor would not dissent . ianu. 3. 1559. this was subscribed with eleuen hands . iames pilkinton , iohn mullings , henry carow , edmund isaack , &c. reade the discourse of the troubles begun at franckford pag. 189. maister gilby . this letter was written anno 1570. to maister couerdall , maister turner , maister whittingam , maister sampson , maister humphrey , maister leauer , maister crowley . melanch● . in rom , 14. regest . pag. 41. gal. 5. notes for div a19461-e10400 exod. 18.2 . in the plea of the innocent . iam. 3.18 . there is pax . 1. temporis 1. pectoris . 3. aternitatis . ber. psal. 99. nolumus hun● regitare . psal. 148.6 . in hexamer . esa. 38.16 . amara prius in nece martyrum ; amarior post in conflictu● . ereticorum ; amarissimanunc in moribus domesticorum . ber. in cant. sen. 23. ne perderet obedie 〈◊〉 ●uit 〈◊〉 tam 〈◊〉 ma● 〈◊〉 ratio , 〈◊〉 peior . 〈◊〉 quod 〈◊〉 sanctu● 〈◊〉 vera o● 〈◊〉 tianihil 〈◊〉 de suo 〈◊〉 tum de . 〈◊〉 ●er . 28. ● 〈◊〉 gen 3. 1 king. 20 ● non attendit verus obediens quale sit quod precipitur hoc solo contentus quia precipitur . ber. in lib. de precep & dispens . in vitia alter alterum tradimus . sen. epist. 41. authoritatem habemus senum vitia puerorum senec. epist. 4. qui virtutem suam publicare vult non virtuti laborat sed gloria . sen. epist. 113. nemo amplius in ecclesia nocet quam qui peruerse agens nomen vel ordinem sanctitatis habet . delinquentem namque hunc redarguere nullus presumit & in exemplis culpavehementius extenditur quando pro reuerentia ordinia peccator honoratur gregor . in past . a thousand of them . chap. 13. nichols in the plea of the innoc pag. 8. lin 9. which they do not whilest they breake that statute . anno 1. eliz. for vniformitie of prayer . nichols plea. pag. 54. lin . 14. and pag. 79. lin . 3. nichols plea pag. 80. lin . 8. nichols . plea pag. 223. lin . 13. subscription shaked the heauens and darkned the skies . nich pag. 226 lin . 11. humble motion pag. 43. lin . 24. a gentleman of the country to a londoner touching an answere to the archb. articles . regest . pag. 178. libritui penè totum ●enobis exbibent . si enim propt●res te non no●imus , quia saciem corporis t●●non vidi●●us , hoc modo nec ●●se tenos●i , nam in quoque non vides ca●● aust. epist. 9. ●iero . sibi'a antiqui serpe●●is . hi●ron . yea●bitrari possunt homine nibil in●enisse quod diceres nisitibi proponeres c●i malediceres . aust. contr . petilian . donatist . agnoscens loquacitatis culpam vsque ad mortem silentium ●enuit , vt quod loquendo contraxerat tacendo emendaret . gennad . catalog . conscientia est applicatio notitiae nostrae ad actum particularem aquinas 2. script . sent . dist . 14. art . 4. eccles. 7.23.24 . conscientia testis . mille. accusator . vinculum . iudg. 16.9 . 1 testificatio . 2. examinatio . 3. consiliatio . 1. de praeteritis . 2. de praeteritis factis & de futuris faciendis . 3 de faciendis tantum . 1. dictamen . 2. examen . 3. ligamen . ioh. 16.2 . eadem ratione prohibentur mala qua praecipiuntur bona . rom. 14. quia ignorantia quae est ex culpa nocet . ambros. esa. 5 10. martyres stulta philos . aust. aquinas in disput . de veritat . quest . 17. art . 5. alex. 2 part . summae . quest . 35 art . 2. 1. chro. 20.12 ioh. 3. 2. cor. 10.18 . pro. 10.9 . perit omne iudicium cum res transit in affectum . sen. hooke● . lib 5. pag. 15. bonarum mentium est ibi culpas agnocere vbi culpa non est gregor . dum perturbatur conscientia hominis , reparatur in homine similitudo conditoris . elizab. 13. 1. elizab. martin iunior thes. 50. apologeticall epistle . discourse of the troubles . pag. 6. ibid. pag 8. ibid. pag. 39. march. 1.1556 . ibid. pag. 62. ibid. pag. 132. danger . pos . pag. 98. quicquid lacerato animo dixeris punientis est impetus non charitas corrigentis : dilige& di● quicquid voles . august . we desire humbly his m●iestie and the whole parliament to consider this . notes for div a19461-e12130 quod de scriptura sacris anthantatem non 〈◊〉 cadem facilitate contemnitur qua probatur . h●er . in matt. 26. scriptura sacra in 〈…〉 & monendo recta est & promittendo al●a & minando ter . ribilis . gregor . in ezech. in sacra scriptura qutequid docetur verit●s ; qui●quid piaecipitur bonitas quicquid promi●titur felicitas est . hugo . d. sutcliff . 1. pet. 5. zanch. in decal pag 671. omnia decenter . 1. cor. 14. exod. 4 29. cartwright . nicholas gallasius . pellican . & siml●rus in exod . 4. cornel. bertram de politeia iudai . dedicated to maister beza . t. c. lib. 1. pag. 33. caluin in math 18. exod. 4 29. and 17 5. deut. 1.15 . and 17.12 . 2. chron. 19.8 ierem. 19.1 . ezech. 8 1. ket burnt at norwich . by d. sutcliffe and the suruay of discipline , pag. 414. aust. in tract . in lob . hiero. ad tit. 2. aust contra . faust . lib. 32. cap. 19. suruay . p. 80. humbl . motion . pag. 31. pag. 27. pag. 74. pag 64. pag. 37. pag. 79. bullinger in a letter to a bishop of england . 1574. march. 10. anno. 1574. hart , a preacher at emden to m feeld . by the right reuerend the l. archbishop of canturburie . notes for div a19461-e13060 hook. lib. ● . pag. 228. order is the mother and preseruer of all things . greg. nazian . de moderatione in disput . servanda . hieron . ad euagrium . beza in respo . ad fractat . de mi●ist evangel . grad . sol . 153. hiero contrae iouini . lib. 1. matth. 18. euseb. lib. 7.30 cap. 5. cap. 20. cap. 2. cap. 19. nouel . const . 123. cap. 10. anno do . 255. euseb. lib. 6.43 epist. lib. 4. cap. 88. the defence of the answere to the admon● pag. 310. polydor. lib. 4. de ixuent . c. 12. t.c. pag. 66. sect. 4. archshopheard . 1. pet. 5. anno. 330. can. 6. can. 33. volusianus wrote , anno. 965. theod. in arg . in epist. ad tit. euseb. lib. 5. cap. 23. lib. 1. epist. 3. ad cornelium . ignat. in epist. ad smirnenses . lib. 4. epist. 8. hook. lib. 5. 236. reuel . 4.4 . reuel . 21.14 . matth. 19.28 . aust. de har . cap. 53. epiph. har . 75. hiero. ad euagr . t●t essent sci●mata quot sacerdotes . hiero. contr . luciferi● . in respons . ad tractat de grad . ministr . ab eo tempore quo cepit dici ego sum pauli ego appollo ego au tem cephae . hier. in cap. 3. ad titum . euseb. lib. 6. cap. 43. d. bilson bish. of winchester pag. 247. eris presbyter ●tes & quando deus voluerit futurus episcopus . aust. epist. 210. d. bils . p. 274. hierom aduers. lucifer . luk. 9. beza in resp. ad tract . de minist . grad . fol. 143. nay you any work pag 21. vdal . dial . c. 1. iosias nichols in the plea of of the inoc. pag. 76. vt peculiarem promitterent obedientiam in rebus honestis suo episcopo , & episcopi metropolitano . zanch. de . relig. cap. 25. sect. 38. as my lord archbishop answered long since to t.c. euseb. lib. 3. cap. 39. & 35. millenarij . iustar fontis purissimi . the dialogue that came frō throg . d. 3. ambrosium noui vnum qui s●lus dignè vocetur episcopus . ●ph 4.11 . rom. 12.34 1. king. 10.5 . 2. tim. 2.20 . eph. 4.12 . 1. cor. 12.17 18.19 . notes for div a19461-e15610 28 flamines turned into so many bish. & 3 archflamins into 3. archbi . in the da●es of eleuthe●g . fox . tom. 1. pag. 146. platin. galfrid momu . heb. 2.16 . exod. 20.19 . deut. 5 28 19. math. 3. act. 14.15 . heb. 4.15 . eccle 1.23 . 2 cor. 2.16 . 2. cor. 12. math 25. falsa est eorū scientia qui quod necessariū est pro suꝑfluo deserūt quod solidū ꝓ vacuo , vtile ꝓinutili , bonū ꝓ malo . gregor . ezek. contention . sitnah . hatred gen. 26.20.2 . heb. 5.12 . ● victim in rep . sacerdotiū non est sanū . luk. 12.24 . non prodito● aut raptor . chrisost. 1 sam. 22 14. prou. 20.6 : a lay man : es. 56 10. this was s●oké against kings , princes and magis . caluin . ber. gen. 41 33. speculator 〈◊〉 . preco nintus . d● cto , ●●lciu● 〈◊〉 ●nissu● . heb. 5. ●● . eccle. 3.7 . 2. tim. 4.2 . prou. 25.11 . math. 13.52 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . eupolis . eccle. 2 , 16.17 . verse . 25. psa. 45. zanch in . 4. prec . cap. 19. pag. 654. apollos preached diligently and knew only the bap. of iohn act. 18. nec ignoro maxim ●s honore ; ad parū dignos penuria meliorū s●lere defferri . māmertius panager . ad iulianum . my l. grace . m. hooker . perkins vpon the l. praier . into what house soeuer ye enter say pax huie dom● luk. 10. maximū viu●di impedunētū est expectatio que pende● ex crastino pe● dis hodiernū . sene. de breu●● vitae . 1. tim. 3.2 . titus . 19. 2. tim 2.15 . hos. 4.6 . math. 15.14 . a true obseruation of m. hookes . titus . 1.9 . que prophetae vaticinati sunt populis predicare hoc est legere . gloss ▪ in verb. predicare dist . 25. c. perlectis ●● . ad lectorē . m. hook. lib. 5. pag. 263 : m. curlus . non est opus rcip . eo ciue qui parite nesciret . val. max● lib. 6. cap. 3. nichols in the plea. pag. 145. lin 12. nichols . pag. 171. lin. 1.1 . tim. 5. confess . heluet . which are aboue 8000. nichols plea. pag. 171. lin. 14. magna charta 33. & . 13. ann. 52. hen. 3 ansegisus legum . franciae . lib. 1. cap. 84. anno. 827. anno. 654. concilij tol. 9. cap. 2. nouella constit ▪ 123. cap. 18 omnia ista ta●● propitius aspiciet quam aegros suos medicus . sen. lib. 2. de ira. 1. sam. 30. t. c. aloweth onely readers . pag. 104. sect 3 some godly graue man which can doe nothing else but read , may be appointed to be reader in the church . notes for div a19461-e17710 1 vniuersities 2 & cathedral churches . anno. 39. elizab. purū , probū , prophanū , suū fest . lib ▪ 14. psal. 24 . 1● 1. cor. 9.7.8 . a honores quos expetunt multi cato petere non debuit sed eos ciuitas ob eius virtutē non petenti dare . aust. lib. 5. de ciui dei. b praedicatores boni & honorē propter elationem sugiunt & honorari tamen propter imitationem volunt . greg. in moral . c vetus predicatornō ideo hic predicare debet vt in hoc tempore mercedem recipiat sed ideo debet mercedem recipere vt predicare sufficiat , greg. nescio quid habet sordidi singulorum agros aestimare trauers , in discipt . eccl. fol. 95.96 . gen. 14.20 . gen. 20.28 . diuitiarum sepes decimae r. aquila in pirk . aboth . malach. 3. a nullius autē res sa●rae & religiose & sacte quod enim diuini iurisest id nullius in bonis est lustini . lib 2. t it 1. b nouimus multa regna & regeseorum propte●eac●cidisse quia eecle●ias spoliaue●●t ●esque earū vastauerunt , alienauerūt , veldirupuerūt episcopisque & sacerdo . ●ib● at● ; quod maius est ecclesijs conīabstulerūt & pug nanti●● dedenīt verba . caroli magni . c hook lib. 5. pag. , 249. math. 5. maiores nostri adeo copijs omnibꝰ abundabant quia deo decimas dabant & caesari censum reddebát modo autem quia disces●it deuotio de●acces●it indictio fiscal noluimus partiri cum deo decimas modo autem totum tollitur . aust. homel 48 . cx lib. 50. homel . ●error fratri cellorum . ioh. de turre cremat . lib 4. pact . 2. cap. 57. s̄amae . caiat . in 22. quest . 87. numb . 1.46 . numb . 3.36 . suruay . pag. 117. m. beza . contr . erast. lib. script t. c. lib. 1. pag. 1●7 . the humble motion . the 2 admonit . pag. 12. the humble motion . pag. 40. pag. 97. pag. 98. lin. 3. pag. 103. my l. his grace of cant. in the defence of the answere to the admonit . pag 747. psal. 82 , 11 , 12 13. vrban● prim● epist. ad omnes episcopos . notes for div a19461-e18900 ef. 56 10. 11. zachar. 11. 17. ezech. 34 2. math. 15. 14. act. 20 18. act. 20 2. elezh . 23. 2. sam. 1. 19. lu● . 13.7 . math. 25. 30. nichols in the plea pag. 212. lin. 23. ezech. 34.2 . m. hooker . lib. ● . pag. 251. anno. 112. gloss. in verbo aut in elect . cap. nec numer● . 10. q. 3. anno. 636. camde● . this the lords did for which they were allowed to bee patrons . this m rogers martir wisned anno. 1554. act. & monu . fol 1492. m. hooper and he wisht they might haue . 10 chore piscopi villarū episcopi . damas. epist. 3. concit . neocesar . cau . 13. & antioch . cau 8 some of these being suffraganes did ordaine presbiters . concil . antio . cau . 10 reasons all edged in the abstract , out of the extragauants . by d. cosen . 4. hen. 7.10 . dispensatio estiuris cōmumis relaxatio facta cū causae cognitione ab eo qui ius habet dispēsandi . dispensare est diuersa pensare ; which they doe not who disallow all dispensations . lex humana quā vis iusta sit commutari tamē pro tempore iustè potest . aust. lib. 1. de liber arb . aquinas . 12. qu 97. act . 1. fol. 1. ridiculum est & ●atis abominabile dedec ' vt traditiones quas antiquitus a patribus accipimus infringi patimur decret . dist . 12 ca. ridiculū est euidens debet esse vtilitas vt rectarecedatur ab eo iure quod diu aequum visum est . aqui. 12. q. 97. act. 2. abstract . pag. 128. zanch in decat . lib. 1. cap. 10. pag. 180. ocatꝰ ad scopum . intelligentia distorū ex causa est assum ēda quia non sermoni res sed rei debet esse sermo subiectis . hilar. in lib. 4. de trinit . 14 waldenses & some of the cathari . alph. de castr lib. 8 haeres . iuramentum . ma●h . 5. quod fit authoritate superioris non fit contra preceptum . arg. l. scio. ff . de minoribus . panormit . in c. de multa extr . de preb. vlt. notab . aunswere to the abstaact . pag. 230. my l. his grace of cant. in the defence of the answere to the admo . tract . cap. 1. diuis . 1. pag. 236. d. bridges . pag. 488. nichol. in tho plea. pag. 210. lin. 14. pag 221. pag 35. canon residentia . 1571. & 1597. 1. tim. 5.13 . notes for div a19461-e20380 1. tim. 4. ● . ioh. 16.23 . luk. 11.9 . psa. 24.9 . psal. 118. luk. 11.10 . 1. esdr. 3.11 . psa. 114.5 . gen. 3. exod. 32.10 . gen. 32 , 26. zwengfeldiā● brownists . basil. epist. 6● rom. 8.26 . anno. 27. eliz. t. c. lib. 1. pag. 131. conci . lat. sub inno. 3 cap. 13 concil . lugil . a grego . 10. concil . carth. 3. can . 23. martianus iurisconsul . in lib. 1. de colleg . illic . nouel . 58 ca 8 siquid in sua domo . ne forte aliquid contrafidem aut p minus studiū fit cōpositū concil . mileuit sub inno 1. can . 2. leu. 17. deut. 12. 13. magistri erroris existūt quia veritatis discipuli nō fuerūt . nemo priuatim deos habes fit . lex . 12. tab amil. pro plutarch thacid . seperatim nemo habessit deos neue nouos siue aduenas nisi publice ascitos priuatim colunto 12 ▪ tabul . sundry martirs in q. maries time . diuers bish. of our nation in germ. my l. his grace in def . of the answere to the adm. m. hook , lib. 5 2. sam. 2.5 . 6 1554 iune . 72. knox & others discourse of the trouble at franckford . pag 28. knox & whittingam . discour . pa. 35 from geneua ian. 20 , 1555. d. horn. d. leuer . d. humphry . d. sands . d. grindall . d. cox. d. scorie . d. iewell . in his conference betwixt him & b. gardiner . ianu. 22. 1555. act & monu ▪ fo . 1521 note that this censure of d. tailour martir was giuen in england within 2 daies of that cēsure which m. caluin gaue at geneua . vide bucerum cranmerum . ridleum . vide librū nuperim●ressum sutlif . de mis●a . pag 146 ▪ this letter was sent nouē . 28 , and subscribed with 16 hands to them of franckford . si per omnia precationum sanctorū verba discurras quātū existimo nihil inuenies quod non ista dominica contineat & concludat oratio , &c. aust. epist 12. ad probam viduam . deering against hard. in a booke called a sparing restraint , &c. e● . 1. ● . rom. 1.8 . mil. in psa . 67. m. bucer in a letter to archbish . cranmer . in arg . in epist ad galat. pauli res ipsas sequntur plures nomina rerū plurimi magistrorum . consentimus in eo quod conuenit non in eo quod receptum est . iust. martir . 2. apol. tertul. in apol . cap. 39. colos. 4.16 . 1. thes. 5.27 . s. aust. in many places mentioneth this custome to be ancient and vsuall . de ciuit . lib. 22 ser. 236. stat minister , comunis minister alta voce clamat attendamus . chris. hom. 9. in cap 9. act. luk. 4. act. 13.15.17.18 . m. hook. nemo paucis explicat quod ●on recte intelligit . eras. in praef . in arnob in psalt . the collect on trinitie sunday . aliud est petere liberationē presentem aliud est petere liberaria male pen●presentis psal. 91. math. 6. 12 sunday after trinitie . t.c. si quoties homines peccant iust. martir 2. apol. basil. haxame . psa. 12● . psa. 118. 2. kings 7 9. luk ▪ 19. luk. 2. discourse of the troubles pag. 133. in baptismo regeneramur ad vitam post baptismū confirmamur ad pugnam euse. emissen . non amissi sed premissi fulgent . disperandi sunt vt absentes non deplorandivt mo●●ul . standon in the register . pag 409. in the collect for the first day of lent. regist. pag. 82 iohn . 9. math. 26. 53. notes for div a19461-e24360 pf. 59. 11. concil 4. tolet ▪ sub honorio primo . can . 56. de cret . dist . 45. can . 5. zanch. in decal . pag. 727. deut. 17.18.19 but we pleade not as that harlot before salomon , diuidatur . all or none . pag. 117. henr. 3. the reformer boaste ▪ of 1000 hands . danger pos , pag. 137. phil. 3.15 . quisquis post veritatem repertā aliquid vlterius diseutit , mēdacium querit . quorū studiū in expugnandis heretecis non reprehenderem , si non studio vi●ēdi plus quam opertuit certa●●ēt . sulp. seuer . epi. 27. seuire se nolle aliquando donatistae di●eba●t , ego vero non potuisse ▪ ●●bitror aust. nulla ●●stias● nemanē vulnerae ma● uetadicitur , quia dentes & vngues non habet . notes for div a19461-e25340 lib. 12. annal. raro eminentes viros non magnis adiutoribus ad gubernandam fortunam suam vsos inuenies . velleius paters . dionis . halycar . lib. 2. senec. de benef. lib. 16. cap. 32. t●tit . lib 4 : hist. dec●● pasis . master hooker ps. 83.3 . ps. 21.3 . 1. king. 5.7 , luke . 5.26 . ps. 75. notes for div a19461-e26120 leu. 23.11 .