







 
   
     
       
         An ansvver to a book set forth by Sir Edward Peyton, knight and baronet carrying this title A discourse concerning the fitnesse of the posture necessary to be used in taking the bread and wine at the Sacrament / by Rodger Cocks ...
         Cocks, Roger, fl. 1630-1642.
      
       
         This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A33596 of text R13366 in the  English Short Title Catalog (Wing C4874). Textual changes  and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more  computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life.  The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with  MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish.  This text has not been fully proofread 
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         EarlyPrint Project
         Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO
         2017
         A33596
         Wing C4874
         ESTC R13366
         12594017
         ocm 12594017
         64002
         
           
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         Early English books online.
      
       
         (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A33596)
         Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 64002)
         Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 251:E141, no 12)
      
       
         
           
             An ansvver to a book set forth by Sir Edward Peyton, knight and baronet carrying this title A discourse concerning the fitnesse of the posture necessary to be used in taking the bread and wine at the Sacrament / by Rodger Cocks ...
             Cocks, Roger, fl. 1630-1642.
          
           [2], 22 p.
           
             Printed for Nath. Butter,
             London :
             1642.
          
           
             Reproduction of original in Thomason Collection, British Library.
          
        
      
    
     
       
         eng
      
       
         
           Peyton, Edward, -- Sir, 1588?-1657. -- Discourse concerning the fitnesse of the posture necessary to be used in taking bread and wine at the Sacrament.
           Sacraments -- Early works to 1800.
        
      
    
       A33596  R13366  (Wing C4874).  civilwar no An ansvver to a book set forth by Sir Edward Peyton, Knight and Baronet, carrying this title, A discourse concerning the fitnesse of the pos Cocks, Roger 1642    7074 0 20 0 0 0 0 28 C  The  rate of 28 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 
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        2006-10 Celeste Ng
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        2007-02 pfs
        Batch review (QC) and XML conversion
      
    
  
   
     
       
       
       
         
           AN
           ANSWER
           TO
           A
           BOOK
           Set
           forth
           By
           Sir
           EDWARD
           PEYTON
           ,
           KNIGHT
           and
           BARONET
           ,
           
             Carrying
             this
             Title
             ,
          
           A
           Discourse
           concerning
           the
           fitnesse
           of
           the
           Posture
           ,
           necessary
           to
           be
           used
           ,
           in
           taking
           the
           Bread
           and
           Wine
           at
           the
           SACRAMENT
           .
        
         
           BY
           ROGER
           COCKS
           ,
           Preacher
           of
           Gods
           Word
           .
        
         
           
             Quàm
             diu
             per
             hanc
             lineam
             serram
             reciprocabimus
             ,
             habentes
             observationem
             inveteratam
             ,
             quae
             praeveniendo
             statum
             fecit
             ?
             Hanc
             si
             nulla
             Scriptura
             determinavit
             ,
             certè
             consuetudo
             corroboravit
             .
          
        
         
           Tertul.
           de
           Coron
           .
           Militis
           ,
           Cap.
           3.
           
        
         
           
             Ad
             quam
             fortè
             Ecclesiam
             veneris
             ,
             eius
             morem
             serva
             ,
             si
             cuiquam
             non
             vis
             esse
             scandalo
             ,
             nec
             quenquam
             tibi
             .
          
        
         
           Sententia
           Ambros.
           in
           Aug.
           ut
           ipse
           refert
           ,
           Epist.
           118.
           
           Cap.
           2.
           
        
         
           
             LONDON
             ,
          
           Printed
           for
           Nath.
           Butter
           .
           1642.
           
        
      
    
     
       
       
       
         
           Scribimus
           indocti
           ,
           doctique
           .
        
         
           PAmphlets
           ,
           like
           wild
           geese
           ,
           fly
           up
           and
           downe
           in
           flocks
           about
           the
           Countrey
           .
           Never
           was
           more
           writing
           ,
           or
           lesse
           matter
           .
           That
           of
           the
           Preacher
           ,
           if
           ever
           it
           did
           reflect
           on
           any
           ,
           may
           fitly
           suit
           with
           our
           times
           .
           
             There
             is
             no
             end
             of
             making
             many
             books
             .
          
           
             a
          
           For
           in
           many
           ,
           in
           most
           ,
           there
           is
           no
           end
           indeed
           ;
           Nay
           ,
           there
           is
           neither
           beginning
           nor
           ending
           ;
           that
           is
           ,
           neither
           head
           nor
           foot
           ,
           as
           it
           is
           in
           the
           Proverb
           .
           I
           will
           not
           absolutely
           rank
           yours
           in
           the
           number
           of
           these
           ,
           yet
           I
           conceive
           (
           and
           many
           ,
           I
           presume
           ,
           will
           be
           of
           my
           opinion
           )
           you
           should
           have
           shewne
           more
           wisdome
           ,
           if
           you
           had
           taken
           lesse
           paines
           ,
           and
           spared
           your
           Discourse
           .
           For
           though
           I
           commend
           your
           moderation
           ,
           in
           not
           being
           affected
           with
           the
           Epidemicall
           disease
           of
           the
           times
           ,
           Railing
           ,
           yet
           I
           cannot
           approve
           your
           discretion
           ,
           in
           acting
           that
           upon
           the
           publique
           stage
           of
           Printing
           ,
           which
           might
           have
           passed
           better
           by
           private
           intercourse
           of
           writing
           .
           I
           was
           once
           about
           to
           have
           answered
           your
           Discourse
           with
           nothing
           but
           silence
           ,
           (
           if
           so
           be
           that
           might
           have
           been
           reputed
           
           an
           Answer
           )
           and
           to
           this
           the
           perswasion
           of
           some
           friends
           had
           almost
           induced
           me
           ,
           as
           well
           because
           the
           sleighting
           of
           some
           wrong
           ,
           is
           the
           best
           way
           to
           overcome
           them
           ,
           as
           because
           it
           is
           not
           an
           easie
           matrer
           for
           a
           Practicall
           Divine
           on
           the
           sudden
           to
           turne
           Polemicall
           .
           But
           I
           was
           diverted
           from
           these
           (
           to
           my
           thinking
           )
           by
           stronger
           considerations
           :
           As
           first
           ,
           the
           giving
           of
           occasion
           unto
           the
           adverse
           side
           ,
           to
           insult
           and
           triumph
           ;
           and
           next
           to
           ours
           ,
           the
           scandall
           of
           deserting
           my selfe
           ;
           and
           which
           is
           more
           ,
           the
           publique
           cause
           of
           the
           Church
           ,
           at
           which
           (
           it
           is
           plain
           )
           you
           strike
           ,
           though
           through
           the
           sides
           of
           me
           ,
           an
           unworthy
           member
           of
           it
           .
           Over-swaid
           by
           these
           ,
           I
           thought
           it
           better
           to
           shew
           my selfe
           (
           is
           the
           times
           now
           are
           )
           a
           foole
           in
           print
           among
           the
           rest
           ,
           then
           that
           the
           Truth
           should
           suffer
           by
           my
           default
           ,
           or
           that
           your
           pretending
           to
           invincible
           ,
           unanswerable
           arguments
           ,
           should
           conduce
           to
           the
           offending
           of
           others
           .
        
         
           Before
           I
           enter
           upon
           your
           Book
           ,
           I
           cannot
           passe
           by
           the
           Title
           ;
           as
           a
           man
           that
           is
           to
           survey
           some
           new
           building
           ,
           ere
           he
           enter
           the
           house
           ,
           will
           cast
           his
           eye
           upon
           the
           Portal
           .
           Now
           this
           (
           me thinks
           )
           is
           not
           given
           with
           that
           advisednesse
           of
           judgement
           that
           should
           have
           been
           ,
           for
           you
           call
           it
           
             A
             Discourse
             concerning
             the
             fitnesse
             of
             the
             posture
             ,
             necessary
             to
             be
             used
             ,
             in
             taking
             the
             Bread
             and
             Wine
             at
             the
             Sacrament
             .
          
           Had
           you
           left
           out
           
             [
             necessary
             ,
             ]
          
           it
           would
           have
           been
           a
           great
           deale
           better
           ;
           for
           you
           change
           a
           matter
           of
           indifferencie
           ,
           into
           a
           matter
           of
           necessity
           .
           You
           cannot
           (
           or
           at
           least
           ,
           writing
           of
           that
           subject
           ,
           ought
           not
           to
           )
           be
           ignorant
           ,
           that
           Ceremonies
           ,
           in
           their
           owne
           
           nature
           are
           but
           
             {non-Roman}
             {non-Roman}
             {non-Roman}
             {non-Roman}
             {non-Roman}
          
           ,
           indifferent
           things
           ;
           your
           postures
           therefore
           being
           not
           yet
           enjoyned
           by
           authority
           ,
           cannot
           be
           necessary
           .
           But
           a
           rough
           outside
           may
           have
           a
           smooth
           inside
           ,
           and
           a
           jewell
           is
           not
           alwayes
           knowne
           by
           the
           case
           or
           casket
           that
           doth
           enclose
           it
           ;
           I
           will
           therefore
           come
           to
           the
           discourse
           it selfe
           .
        
         
           And
           this
           is
           composed
           in
           the
           forme
           of
           a
           Letter
           ,
           I
           must
           therefore
           shape
           my
           Answer
           accordingly
           ;
           onely
           I
           will
           adde
           a
           Superscription
           ,
           lest
           I
           should
           not
           seeme
           to
           deale
           with
           a
           man
           of
           your
           fashion
           as
           I
           ought
           to
           doe
           .
        
         
           
             To
             Sir
             EDWARD
             PEYTON
             ,
             Knight
             and
             Baronet
             .
          
           
             But
             I
             pray
             give
             me
             leave
             to
             close
             it
             up
             with
             that
             wish
             of
             Philip
             ,
             a
             King
             of
             Macedon
             ,
             to
             Menecrates
             ,
             an
             over-weening
             Physitian
             ,
             Health
             of
             mind
             .
          
           
             THe
             reason
             that
             induceth
             me
             to
             this
             ,
             is
             ,
             because
             the
             elapsed
             time
             you
             speak
             of
             ,
             hath
             brought
             forth
             the
             foule
             issue
             of
             a
             collapsed
             disposition
             ,
             which
             (
             as
             you
             would
             seeme
             to
             pretend
             )
             my
             rudenesse
             hath
             made
             abortive
             ,
             and
             caused
             it
             to
             come
             into
             the
             world
             before
             the
             time
             :
             But
             the
             truth
             is
             ,
             (
             for
             so
             much
             I
             have
             heard
             you
             affirme
             your selfe
             )
             it
             was
             conceived
             many
             yeares
             before
             ,
             though
             perhaps
             
             not
             altogether
             in
             the
             same
             shape
             it
             is
             produced
             .
             Who
             advisedly
             considering
             this
             will
             not
             argue
             you
             of
             much
             weaknesse
             ,
             for
             being
             grounded
             in
             your
             opinion
             ?
             why
             did
             you
             so
             often
             before
             take
             the
             Sacrament
             kneeling
             without
             question
             or
             scruple
             ,
             if
             it
             were
             a
             matter
             against
             conscience
             so
             to
             doe
             ?
             If
             it
             were
             not
             ,
             why
             doe
             you
             now
             refuse
             it
             ?
             I
             refer
             my selfe
             to
             the
             indifferent
             Reader
             ,
             if
             in
             this
             you
             doe
             not
             render
             your selfe
             suspected
             to
             side
             more
             with
             the
             times
             then
             with
             the
             truth
             .
          
           
             But
             to
             proceed
             .
             In
             the
             first
             place
             (
             though
             an
             easie
             apprehension
             may
             conceive
             it
             an
             impertinent
             introduction
             )
             you
             taxe
             my
             defect
             of
             manners
             :
             Indeed
             I
             was
             never
             bred
             in
             the
             schoole
             of
             complements
             ,
             and
             may
             therefore
             haply
             commit
             a
             solecisme
             against
             ceremonious
             forme
             ,
             but
             here
             (
             I
             presume
             )
             I
             may
             justly
             acquit
             my selfe
             .
             The
             irreverence
             was
             on
             your
             part
             ,
             the
             affront
             on
             mine
             ,
             I
             did
             but
             my
             duty
             ,
             which
             you
             answered
             with
             indignity
             ,
             and
             for
             my
             beseeching
             ,
             returned
             a
             threatning
             .
             As
             for
             the
             satisfaction
             which
             you
             would
             seeme
             to
             have
             desired
             ,
             you
             know
             well
             that
             I
             was
             not
             chiefe
             in
             the
             place
             ,
             but
             (
             as
             you
             acknowledge
             me
             your self
             )
             subordinate
             ,
             Curate
             .
             Therefore
             you
             should
             rather
             have
             sought
             it
             at
             his
             hands
             who
             was
             chiefe
             ,
             especially
             being
             there
             resident
             ,
             then
             at
             mine
             ,
             and
             I
             make
             no
             doubt
             ,
             he
             would
             upon
             the
             least
             intimation
             of
             this
             desire
             from
             you
             (
             so
             well
             I
             know
             his
             willingnesse
             and
             sufficiencie
             )
             have
             given
             you
             (
             if
             any
             thing
             could
             have
             done
             it
             )
             satisfaction
             .
          
           
             Howbeit
             ,
             had
             you
             requested
             as
             much
             of
             me
             (
             for
             
             it
             hath
             never
             been
             my
             custome
             to
             obtrude
             my
             labours
             upon
             another
             ,
             especially
             where
             I
             had
             just
             cause
             to
             suspect
             the
             party
             possest
             with
             a
             prejudicate
             opinion
             ,
             and
             so
             the
             matter
             in
             all
             likelyhood
             ,
             to
             meete
             with
             derision
             instead
             of
             acceptation
             )
             I
             should
             as
             far
             as
             my
             meane
             ability
             ,
             and
             my
             many
             occasions
             and
             interruptions
             would
             have
             given
             me
             leave
             ,
             have
             done
             what
             I
             could
             .
             Let
             the
             discreet
             Reader
             now
             judge
             ,
             whether
             there
             were
             more
             want
             of
             manners
             in
             me
             for
             not
             writing
             ,
             or
             of
             civility
             in
             you
             ,
             for
             taxing
             me
             in
             this
             kind
             .
          
           
             Next
             ,
             you
             affirme
             ,
             that
             being
             to
             receive
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             you
             did
             stand
             ,
             with
             just
             ground
             ,
             and
             therefore
             I
             should
             not
             have
             denyed
             it
             unto
             you
             in
             that
             posture
             .
             I
             answer
             ,
             you
             are
             no
             
               Pythagoras
               ,
            
             or
             if
             you
             were
             ,
             I
             am
             none
             of
             your
             Disciples
             ,
             to
             be
             satisfied
             with
             an
             
               Ipse
               dixit
               .
            
             Who
             of
             sound
             judgment
             will
             not
             think
             that
             I
             was
             tyed
             in
             duty
             to
             comply
             rather
             with
             publique
             authority
             ,
             then
             with
             your
             private
             ,
             singular
             ,
             irregular
             opinion
             :
             And
             whereas
             you
             say
             ,
             I
             ought
             not
             to
             urge
             an
             imposed
             kneeling
             ,
             though
             backt
             by
             the
             authority
             of
             the
             Ordinary
             ,
             the
             Bishop
             ,
             the
             Canon
             ,
             because
             it
             is
             not
             confirmed
             by
             Act
             of
             Parliament
             ;
             I
             answer
             ,
             first
             ,
             that
             your
             inference
             is
             not
             good
             :
             Are
             all
             things
             unlawfull
             ,
             that
             are
             not
             confirmed
             by
             Act
             of
             Parliament
             ?
             Surely
             then
             many
             indifferent
             actions
             must
             needs
             be
             unlawfully
             performed
             ;
             Hath
             the
             King
             ,
             hath
             the
             Church
             no
             authority
             in
             these
             things
             ?
             what
             then
             shall
             become
             of
             government
             ,
             if
             there
             be
             no
             Parliament
             ?
             But
             it
             may
             be
             you
             desire
             such
             a
             time
             as
             the
             Israelites
             had
             when
             
             there
             was
             no
             King
             in
             
               Israel
               ,
            
             but
             every
             man
             did
             that
             which
             was
             right
             in
             his
             own
             eyes
             .
             
               b
            
          
           
             Secondly
             ,
             I
             answer
             ,
             that
             your
             assertion
             is
             not
             true
             ,
             there
             is
             an
             Act
             of
             Parliament
             for
             that
             and
             other
             Ceremonies
             ,
             entituled
             ,
             
               An
               Act
               for
               the
               uniformity
               of
               Common
               Prayer
               ,
            
             and
             prefixt
             as
             an
             Introduction
             to
             the
             Service
             Booke
             ;
             but
             I
             beleeve
             you
             have
             taken
             little
             notice
             of
             it
             ,
             because
             you
             are
             not
             much
             affected
             to
             the
             Booke
             it selfe
             .
             Againe
             ,
             whereas
             you
             say
             ,
             Kneeling
             is
             not
             commanded
             in
             the
             Rubrique
             :
             surely
             you
             doe
             but
             take
             the
             matter
             upon
             trust
             ,
             and
             that
             hath
             deceived
             you
             ;
             for
             the
             words
             are
             plaine
             ,
             that
             the
             Receiver
             must
             take
             the
             Sacrament
             kneeling
             .
             I
             will
             repeat
             them
             ,
             that
             the
             truth
             may
             the
             better
             appeare
             :
             
               Then
               shall
               the
               Minister
               first
               receive
               in
               both
               kindes
               himselfe
               ,
               and
               next
               deliver
               it
               to
               other
               Ministers
               ,
               if
               any
               be
               present
               ,
               and
               after
               to
               the
               people
               in
               their
               hands
               ,
               kneeling
               .
            
             What
             can
             be
             more
             plaine
             ?
             Certainly
             ,
             if
             you
             did
             not
             take
             the
             matter
             upon
             trust
             (
             as
             I
             said
             before
             )
             it
             must
             needs
             be
             ,
             that
             either
             you
             did
             not
             looke
             so
             far
             ,
             or
             over-looke
             it
             .
          
           
             Your
             disallowing
             of
             the
             Canon
             cannot
             make
             it
             of
             no
             validity
             ;
             for
             it
             is
             confirmed
             by
             the
             King
             ,
             whom
             we
             acknowledge
             Supreame
             ,
             in
             causes
             as
             well
             Ecclesiasticall
             as
             Civill
             ;
             yea
             the
             power
             thereof
             is
             further
             ratified
             by
             a
             clause
             mentioned
             in
             the
             latter
             part
             of
             the
             Act
             made
             for
             the
             uniformity
             of
             Common
             Prayer
             ;
             This
             three-fold
             cord
             then
             cannot
             be
             broken
             by
             you
             ,
             strain
             a
             hard
             as
             you
             can
             .
             And
             yet
             let
             me
             advise
             you
             as
             a
             friend
             ,
             
             not
             to
             strain
             too
             far
             ,
             lest
             by
             this
             means
             you
             doe
             not
             onely
             forfeit
             your
             judgment
             ,
             but
             your
             estate
             ;
             for
             the
             Act
             being
             still
             in
             force
             ,
             may
             lay
             hold
             upon
             you
             .
          
           
             But
             to
             follow
             you
             ,
             (
             as
             you
             proceed
             )
             you
             urge
             us
             next
             (
             as
             if
             we
             did
             we
             know
             not
             what
             )
             with
             many
             demands
             ,
             concerning
             the
             object
             you
             should
             kneel
             unto
             ,
             and
             some
             of
             them
             very
             poore
             and
             ridiculous
             ;
             you
             cannot
             (
             without
             much
             prejudice
             to
             your
             own
             judgment
             )
             conceive
             us
             to
             be
             so
             simple
             as
             to
             require
             you
             to
             kneele
             to
             the
             creature
             ,
             whether
             it
             be
             the
             Minister
             or
             the
             Sacrament
             ;
             but
             what
             that
             should
             be
             which
             may
             hinder
             you
             from
             kneeling
             unto
             God
             ,
             I
             am
             not
             (
             I
             confesse
             )
             quick
             sighted
             enough
             to
             perceive
             ;
             yes
             ,
             say
             you
             ,
             for
             if
             that
             be
             required
             ,
             why
             did
             not
             the
             Disciples
             kneele
             ?
             I
             answer
             ,
             first
             ,
             it
             is
             not
             of
             absolute
             necessity
             that
             wee
             should
             in
             all
             things
             imitate
             the
             Disciples
             ;
             next
             I
             affirme
             ,
             that
             with
             all
             the
             skill
             you
             have
             ,
             you
             cannot
             clearly
             and
             fully
             determine
             whether
             they
             did
             kneele
             or
             no
             .
          
           
             Touching
             the
             forme
             of
             administration
             ,
             what
             if
             we
             shall
             affirme
             (
             for
             all
             your
             negative
             )
             that
             part
             of
             it
             is
             a
             prayer
             ?
             I
             doubt
             not
             we
             shall
             make
             it
             good
             well
             enough
             ,
             doe
             you
             your selfe
             examine
             it
             a
             little
             better
             ,
             and
             you
             cannot
             (
             if
             you
             will
             confesse
             a
             truth
             )
             but
             conclude
             it
             to
             be
             so
             ;
             I
             will
             repeat
             the
             former
             part
             (
             for
             that
             only
             is
             materiall
             to
             the
             purpurpose
             )
             
               The
               Body
               of
               our
               Lord
               Iesus
               Christ
               which
               was
               given
               for
               thee
               ,
               preserve
               thy
               body
               and
               soule
               into
               everlasting
               life
               .
            
             The
             later
             part
             is
             by
             you
             vainly
             added
             ,
             for
             who
             did
             ever
             conceive
             that
             to
             be
             a
             Prayer
             ?
             
             But
             if
             it
             be
             a
             Prayer
             ,
             say
             you
             ,
             the
             words
             should
             run
             thus
             ,
             
               I
               pray
               God
               to
               preserve
               thy
               body
               and
               soule
               to
               eternall
               life
               .
            
             Why
             so
             ?
             I
             see
             no
             such
             necessity
             .
             Is
             not
             that
             of
             the
             Apostle
             
               Paul
            
             to
             
               Timothy
               ,
            
             
               c
            
             
               The
               Lord
               give
               thee
               understanding
               in
               all
               things
               ,
            
             a
             prayer
             for
             
               Timothy
               ?
            
             because
             he
             doth
             not
             say
             ,
             
               I
               pray
               the
               Lord
               to
               give
               thee
               understanding
               in
               all
               things
               .
            
             Consider
             what
             I
             say
             ,
             and
             the
             Lord
             give
             you
             a
             better
             understanding
             .
          
           
             Nor
             is
             it
             convenient
             (
             for
             all
             your
             cavill
             )
             that
             the
             Minister
             should
             kneele
             at
             the
             time
             of
             Administration
             ,
             though
             the
             Receiver
             doe
             ,
             seeing
             the
             former
             subordinately
             under
             Christ
             our
             Saviour
             ,
             imparts
             the
             blessing
             ;
             the
             latter
             takes
             it
             ministerially
             from
             him
             .
             Suppose
             the
             King
             (
             nay
             ,
             let
             it
             be
             some
             Vice-gerent
             ,
             or
             Generall
             under
             him
             )
             be
             to
             bestow
             the
             Order
             of
             Knight-hood
             ,
             because
             he
             must
             kneele
             that
             takes
             the
             honour
             ,
             must
             he
             doe
             so
             that
             gives
             it
             ?
             Or
             ,
             to
             come
             neerer
             to
             the
             present
             question
             ,
             consider
             this
             in
             matter
             of
             Ordination
             ,
             for
             though
             it
             be
             no
             Sacrament
             ,
             it
             is
             a
             holy
             action
             :
             because
             he
             must
             kneele
             who
             receives
             Orders
             ,
             must
             he
             doe
             so
             that
             doth
             ordaine
             him
             ?
             who
             sees
             not
             the
             manifest
             absurdity
             of
             this
             consequence
             ?
             It
             is
             sufficient
             that
             the
             Minister
             himselfe
             receiving
             first
             ,
             according
             to
             appointment
             ,
             doe
             take
             the
             Sacrament
             upon
             his
             knees
             .
             And
             why
             (
             I
             pray
             you
             )
             may
             you
             not
             kneele
             to
             Christ
             ,
             when
             you
             receive
             ?
             what
             necessity
             is
             there
             that
             your
             kneeling
             to
             him
             should
             make
             him
             to
             be
             corporally
             present
             in
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             when
             you
             take
             the
             holy
             Communion
             ,
             more
             then
             he
             is
             at
             other
             times
             ,
             when
             you
             pray
             unto
             him
             ?
          
           
           
             My
             Lord
             of
             Yorke
             (
             and
             it
             is
             much
             that
             you
             should
             vouchsafe
             to
             give
             him
             that
             title
             )
             confesseth
             no
             such
             thing
             as
             you
             quote
             him
             for
             ;
             Yea
             ,
             in
             the
             Page
             following
             ,
             he
             is
             directly
             against
             you
             :
             For
             he
             affirmes
             out
             of
             approved
             Authors
             ,
             that
             it
             is
             a
             matter
             of
             conveniencie
             for
             every
             Countrey
             to
             use
             such
             Ceremonies
             as
             they
             shal
             think
             fit
             .
             
               d
            
          
           
             Your
             Proposition
             that
             we
             ought
             to
             follow
             Christ
             in
             all
             things
             ,
             is
             too
             generall
             ;
             S.
             
               Augustine
            
             will
             tell
             you
             otherwise
             ,
             and
             so
             will
             all
             other
             Orthodoxe
             Divines
             ;
             They
             will
             affirme
             we
             ought
             not
             to
             imitate
             him
             in
             his
             Miracles
             ,
             but
             in
             his
             Morals
             ;
             For
             though
             the
             one
             may
             entitle
             us
             to
             obedience
             ,
             the
             other
             cannot
             acquit
             us
             from
             presumption
             .
          
           
             In
             the
             next
             place
             you
             come
             upon
             me
             like
             a
             fencer
             :
             But
             
               (
               Venia
               tua
               )
            
             give
             me
             leave
             to
             tell
             you
             in
             a
             friendly
             manner
             ,
             your
             Venies
             are
             but
             triflings
             in
             a
             cause
             so
             serious
             ;
             I
             feare
             your
             sharp
             as
             little
             as
             your
             foils
             ,
             for
             unlesse
             your
             weapons
             be
             (
             and
             I
             hope
             they
             are
             not
             )
             
               tincta
               Lycambaeo
               sanguine
               ,
            
             I
             see
             no
             great
             danger
             in
             them
             ,
             an
             indifferent
             judgment
             may
             easily
             blunt
             their
             point
             ,
             and
             turn
             their
             edge
             .
             Howbeit
             ,
             I
             thanke
             you
             for
             your
             friendly
             advertisement
             ,
             for
             
               praemonitus
               praemunitus
               ,
            
             forewarn'd
             forearm'd
             ;
             and
             however
             you
             may
             seeme
             to
             your selfe
             an
             iuvincible
             
               Goliah
               ,
            
             yet
             I
             a
             little
             
               David
            
             dare
             enter
             the
             lists
             with
             you
             .
          
           
             First
             ,
             you
             make
             a
             flourish
             ,
             not
             with
             a
             two-handed
             ,
             but
             with
             a
             two-edged
             sword
             ;
             nay
             with
             that
             which
             is
             sharper
             then
             any
             two-edged
             sword
             ,
             
               e
            
             
               The
               Word
               of
               God
               :
            
             Such
             a
             weapon
             ,
             I
             grant
             ,
             as
             being
             
             well
             handled
             ,
             is
             not
             to
             be
             resisted
             ;
             but
             you
             doe
             onely
             flourish
             it
             ,
             and
             make
             a
             shew
             of
             striking
             that
             which
             you
             doe
             not
             come
             neere
             .
          
           
             Your
             Argument
             runs
             thus
             ,
             That
             gesture
             is
             best
             which
             was
             used
             by
             the
             Apostles
             ;
             but
             the
             Apostles
             used
             this
             gesture
             ,
             therefore
             it
             is
             the
             best
             gesture
             .
             And
             here
             you
             fall
             into
             an
             error
             ,
             for
             you
             doe
             not
             stand
             to
             your
             tackling
             ,
             but
             goe
             from
             Standing
             to
             Sitting
             ;
             Nay
             ,
             you
             use
             the
             demonstrative
             
               this
               ,
            
             before
             you
             mention
             Sitting
             at
             all
             .
             For
             the
             confirmation
             of
             that
             which
             you
             would
             prove
             ,
             you
             cite
             many
             Texts
             of
             Scripture
             ;
             among
             which
             ,
             some
             are
             meerly
             impertinent
             ,
             as
             belonging
             nothing
             to
             the
             Discourse
             in
             hand
             ,
             because
             they
             imply
             an
             imitation
             ,
             not
             in
             Ceremoniall
             ,
             but
             Morall
             duties
             :
             Such
             are
             
               Ephes.
            
             5.
             1.
             1
             
               Cor.
            
             11.
             1.
             1
             
               Tim.
            
             16.
             you
             meane
             (
             I
             conceive
             )
             1
             
               Tim.
            
             1.
             16.
             2
             
               Thes.
            
             3.
             7.
             
             The
             other
             conduce
             not
             rightly
             to
             your
             purpose
             ,
             though
             they
             seeme
             to
             come
             nearer
             .
             For
             however
             you
             make
             much
             adoe
             with
             the
             Greek
             Text
             ,
             and
             Latine
             Translation
             ,
             where
             (
             by
             the
             way
             )
             you
             have
             
               occubuit
               ,
            
             for
             
               accubuit
               ,
            
             which
             I
             am
             willing
             to
             passe
             by
             ,
             because
             but
             a
             literall
             error
             ,
             and
             conclude
             that
             the
             posture
             used
             was
             Sitting
             ,
             (
             howbeit
             no
             direct
             sitting
             neither
             ,
             but
             such
             an
             one
             as
             did
             encline
             to
             leaning
             )
             yet
             I
             may
             say
             all
             this
             will
             not
             help
             you
             a
             jot
             :
             For
             we
             have
             two
             Bucklers
             to
             oppose
             against
             this
             sharp
             of
             yours
             ,
             (
             as
             you
             call
             it
             ;
             )
             the
             one
             ,
             that
             all
             this
             proves
             nothing
             ,
             but
             that
             our
             Saviour
             Christ
             and
             his
             Apostles
             sate
             at
             the
             celebration
             of
             the
             Passeover
             ,
             not
             at
             the
             institution
             of
             the
             Sacrament
             ;
             Nor
             can
             you
             by
             direct
             and
             evident
             
             Text
             of
             Scripture
             urge
             it
             further
             ,
             as
             some
             of
             the
             learned
             have
             judiciously
             observed
             ,
             however
             others
             for
             want
             of
             a
             due
             consideration
             ,
             have
             given
             too
             much
             way
             to
             your
             assertion
             .
          
           
             And
             surely
             if
             I
             among
             these
             should
             doe
             so
             too
             ,
             yet
             it
             would
             fare
             with
             you
             ,
             but
             as
             with
             him
             ,
             
               qui
               suo
               se
               jugulat
               gladio
               ,
            
             who
             striking
             fiercely
             at
             his
             adversary
             ,
             wounds
             ,
             yea
             kils
             his
             owne
             cause
             .
             Your
             pretence
             is
             to
             plead
             for
             Standing
             at
             the
             Communion
             ;
             nay
             your
             offence
             was
             ,
             (
             howbeit
             
               Scandalum
               acceptum
               non
               datum
               )
            
             because
             you
             might
             not
             receive
             it
             in
             that
             posture
             ;
             and
             now
             you
             plead
             for
             sitting
             ,
             nay
             affirme
             it
             is
             unlawfull
             to
             use
             other
             ;
             concluding
             it
             to
             be
             ,
             not
             indifferent
             ,
             but
             necessary
             .
             
               Risum
               teneatis
               amici
               .
            
             Surely
             when
             you
             wrote
             this
             Discourse
             ,
             you
             were
             either
             forgetfull
             of
             your
             former
             Position
             ,
             or
             irresolute
             in
             your
             present
             opinion
             ;
             So
             that
             if
             one
             Proverb
             will
             not
             hit
             you
             ,
             You
             are
             a
             man
             sitting
             
               duabus
               sellis
               ,
            
             yet
             another
             may
             fit
             you
             ,
             
               Aliud
               stans
               ,
               aliud
               sedens
               judicas
               ,
            
             and
             thus
             you
             quite
             overthrow
             ,
             what
             you
             seeke
             to
             establish
             ;
             for
             if
             sitting
             onely
             be
             necessary
             ,
             I
             do
             not
             see
             how
             you
             can
             stand
             more
             for
             standing
             ,
             then
             we
             for
             kneeling
             .
          
           
             Your
             bringing
             in
             of
             
               Calvin
               ,
            
             makes
             nothing
             to
             the
             purpose
             ;
             he
             writes
             against
             adoring
             the
             Host
             in
             the
             Sacrament
             ;
             and
             what
             is
             that
             to
             our
             kneeling
             at
             the
             Communion
             ?
             You
             might
             as
             well
             say
             ,
             The
             Papists
             kneel
             to
             Images
             ,
             and
             worship
             them
             ,
             therefore
             we
             may
             not
             kneele
             to
             worship
             God
             .
             You
             presse
             further
             the
             sayings
             of
             
               Bullinger
            
             and
             
               Keckerman
               ,
            
             who
             (
             if
             you
             cite
             them
             rightly
             )
             take
             that
             for
             
             granted
             ,
             which
             remaines
             to
             be
             proved
             ,
             namely
             ,
             that
             Sitting
             was
             the
             posture
             used
             at
             the
             Sacramentall
             Supper
             .
             Indeed
             I
             should
             side
             with
             
               Chemnitius
            
             in
             his
             opinion
             ,
             that
             the
             reverence
             of
             the
             Sacrament
             is
             to
             be
             taken
             from
             the
             Word
             of
             God
             ,
             if
             there
             were
             any
             prescript
             forme
             ,
             or
             certaine
             direction
             to
             be
             found
             in
             it
             .
             As
             for
             that
             which
             you
             quote
             out
             of
             the
             
               Centuries
               ,
            
             namely
             ,
             that
             Kneeling
             was
             never
             used
             in
             three
             hundred
             yeares
             after
             Christ
             ;
             were
             it
             true
             ,
             (
             which
             I
             shall
             hardly
             be
             induced
             to
             beleeve
             ,
             without
             more
             pregnant
             testimony
             )
             yet
             it
             is
             not
             of
             sufficient
             force
             to
             infringe
             the
             lawfull
             use
             of
             this
             Ceremonie
             ,
             no
             not
             though
             you
             could
             directly
             prove
             the
             Apostles
             did
             receive
             sitting
             .
          
           
             For
             against
             this
             we
             lift
             up
             our
             second
             buckler
             of
             defence
             ,
             which
             (
             I
             conceive
             )
             will
             be
             able
             to
             ward
             off
             the
             blow
             that
             you
             would
             give
             us
             ,
             and
             that
             is
             this
             :
             In
             circumstantiall
             things
             which
             are
             indifferent
             ,
             there
             is
             no
             absolute
             tye
             of
             necessity
             that
             we
             should
             follow
             our
             Saviour
             Christ
             and
             his
             Apostles
             ,
             much
             lesse
             the
             practise
             of
             the
             Primitive
             Church
             ;
             if
             there
             were
             any
             such
             necessity
             ,
             why
             doe
             you
             not
             plead
             as
             well
             against
             the
             change
             of
             time
             and
             place
             ,
             as
             that
             of
             gesture
             ?
             Seeing
             you
             cannot
             be
             ignorant
             ,
             that
             what
             the
             Apostles
             took
             in
             the
             evening
             ,
             we
             take
             in
             the
             morning
             ;
             what
             they
             received
             in
             a
             chamber
             ,
             we
             receive
             in
             a
             Church
             ;
             If
             the
             Church
             had
             power
             to
             alter
             these
             ,
             why
             should
             it
             not
             have
             as
             much
             to
             doe
             the
             other
             ?
             The
             instances
             which
             you
             produce
             for
             standing
             ,
             (
             were
             they
             to
             the
             purpose
             ,
             as
             they
             are
             not
             )
             would
             confirme
             as
             much
             .
             For
             if
             the
             Church
             in
             those
             times
             
             had
             power
             to
             varie
             from
             the
             order
             of
             sitting
             ,
             and
             make
             use
             of
             standing
             in
             the
             place
             of
             it
             ,
             why
             had
             not
             the
             Church
             afterward
             as
             much
             power
             to
             change
             that
             standing
             into
             kneeling
             ?
          
           
             But
             the
             truth
             is
             ,
             the
             words
             of
             
               Tertullian
               ,
            
             as
             S.
             
               Ierome
            
             
               f
            
             notes
             ,
             have
             no
             reference
             to
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             but
             to
             the
             Resurrection
             :
             We
             stand
             then
             ,
             saith
             the
             Father
             ,
             (
             and
             it
             is
             not
             at
             the
             Lords
             Supper
             ,
             but
             every
             Lords
             day
             )
             because
             it
             is
             
               Tempus
               laetitiae
               ,
               quo
               nec
               genua
               flectuntur
               ,
               nec
               curvamur
               ,
               sed
               cum
               Domino
               ad
               coelorum
               alta
               sustollimur
               :
            
             A
             time
             of
             joy
             ,
             in
             which
             we
             neither
             bow
             nor
             bend
             our
             knees
             ,
             but
             are
             with
             the
             Lord
             lifted
             up
             (
             as
             it
             were
             )
             to
             the
             highest
             heavens
             .
             So
             S.
             
               Augustine
               ,
               Propter
               hoc
               jejunia
               relaxantur
               ,
               &
               orantes
               stamus
               ,
               quod
               est
               signum
               resurrectionis
               :
            
             
               g
            
             For
             this
             we
             give
             over
             fasting
             ,
             and
             pray
             standing
             ,
             which
             is
             a
             signe
             of
             the
             Resurrection
             .
             The
             Canon
             of
             the
             Nicene
             Councel
             is
             grounded
             meerly
             on
             the
             same
             reason
             ,
             and
             so
             is
             also
             that
             which
             you
             cite
             out
             of
             S.
             
               Basil
               .
            
          
           
             Howbeit
             did
             all
             these
             make
             to
             your
             purpose
             ,
             they
             would
             yet
             but
             make
             good
             what
             I
             said
             before
             ,
             that
             the
             change
             of
             things
             indifferent
             is
             in
             the
             power
             of
             the
             Church
             ;
             and
             if
             so
             ,
             why
             should
             not
             that
             power
             be
             obeyed
             now
             as
             well
             as
             in
             former
             Ages
             ?
             S.
             
               Augustine
            
             is
             firme
             for
             it
             ;
             That
             is
             (
             saith
             he
             )
             to
             be
             accounted
             indifferent
             ,
             and
             to
             be
             observed
             ,
             in
             respect
             of
             the
             society
             of
             those
             among
             whom
             we
             live
             ,
             
               Quod
               neque
               contra
               fidem
               ,
               neque
               contra
               bonos
               mores
               injungitur
            
             
               h
            
             :
             which
             being
             enjoyned
             ,
             makes
             neither
             against
             faith
             ,
             nor
             good
             manners
             .
             This
             truth
             the
             Reformed
             Churches
             in
             the
             Low-Countries
             
             doe
             acknowledge
             ,
             
               i
            
             and
             
               Beza
            
             likewise
             in
             his
             24.
             
             
               Epist.
            
             Indeed
             if
             men
             should
             be
             suffered
             to
             doe
             what
             they
             list
             in
             this
             case
             ,
             what
             would
             become
             of
             that
             which
             the
             Apostle
             requires
             ,
             
               k
            
             
               Decencie
            
             and
             
               Order
               ?
            
             Surely
             it
             would
             breed
             in
             the
             Church
             
               horribilem
            
             
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
            
             ,
             saith
             
               Paraeus
            
             
               l
            
             ,
             a
             horrible
             confusion
             ;
             And
             from
             this
             confusion
             would
             arise
             no
             small
             seeds
             of
             contention
             ,
             saith
             
               Calvin
            
             in
             his
             
               Institut
               .
            
             
               m
            
             I
             have
             cited
             these
             ,
             because
             I
             conceive
             this
             testimony
             to
             be
             of
             more
             validity
             with
             you
             ,
             then
             that
             of
             the
             Fathers
             .
          
           
             But
             you
             goe
             about
             to
             make
             kneeling
             no
             matter
             of
             indifferencie
             ,
             because
             it
             tends
             (
             as
             you
             say
             )
             to
             Idolatry
             .
             What
             conformation
             hath
             kneeling
             ,
             (
             say
             you
             )
             unlesse
             to
             conforme
             us
             to
             Transubstantiation
             ?
             Since
             you
             doe
             not
             know
             ,
             I
             will
             tell
             you
             ;
             It
             serves
             to
             conforme
             you
             to
             Reverence
             ,
             to
             Obedience
             ,
             to
             Order
             ;
             and
             I
             hope
             these
             are
             not
             Transubstantiation
             .
             Indeed
             could
             you
             prove
             what
             you
             pretend
             ,
             that
             kneeling
             at
             the
             Sacrament
             is
             Idolatry
             ,
             (
             though
             that
             would
             not
             necessarily
             bring
             in
             standing
             )
             you
             should
             doe
             something
             ;
             but
             the
             instances
             you
             produce
             for
             that
             purpose
             ,
             are
             sleight
             and
             triviall
             .
             That
             which
             you
             alledge
             concerning
             a
             reason
             before
             the
             Rubrique
             in
             the
             beginning
             of
             Queene
             
               Elizabeth
            
             is
             nothing
             probable
             ;
             we
             have
             but
             your
             bare
             word
             for
             it
             :
             I
             may
             therefore
             say
             as
             S.
             
               Ierome
            
             doth
             in
             another
             case
             ,
             
               Pari
               facilitate
               rejicitur
               qua
               recipitur
            
             
               n
            
             :
             I
             may
             as
             easily
             reject
             it
             ,
             as
             you
             obtrude
             it
             .
             The
             rest
             I
             omit
             ,
             as
             not
             worth
             the
             answeriug
             ;
             and
             the
             rather
             ,
             because
             you
             knit
             up
             afterward
             the
             full
             strength
             of
             all
             in
             an
             Argument
             .
             
             Onely
             I
             cannot
             passe
             by
             that
             speech
             of
             yours
             ,
             It
             is
             an
             absurdity
             to
             kneele
             to
             Christs
             humanity
             .
             It
             should
             seeme
             you
             doe
             not
             either
             remember
             or
             regard
             what
             the
             Apostle
             saith
             ,
             
               In
               him
               dwelleth
               all
               the
               fulnesse
               of
               the
               God
               head
               bodily
               ,
            
             
               o
            
             and
             shall
             we
             not
             worship
             that
             wherein
             dwels
             the
             fulnesse
             of
             the
             Godhead
             ?
             Doubtlesse
             we
             are
             to
             worship
             the
             Humane
             nature
             with
             the
             Divine
             ,
             for
             our
             blessed
             Saviour
             is
             not
             divided
             ,
             
               p
            
             and
             we
             are
             to
             adore
             whole
             Christ
             .
          
           
             I
             come
             now
             to
             your
             Argument
             ,
             which
             you
             frame
             in
             this
             manner
             :
          
           
             
               To
               bend
               the
               knee
               to
               a
               creature
               in
               divine
               worship
               ,
               is
               Idolatry
               ;
               but
               to
               bend
               the
               knee
               at
               the
               Sacrament
               ,
               is
               to
               bend
               the
               knee
               to
               a
               creature
               :
            
             
               
                 Ergo
                 ,
              
               To
               bend
               the
               knee
               at
               the
               Sacrament
               is
               Idolatry
               .
            
          
           
             In
             seeking
             to
             prove
             the
             
               major
            
             or
             Proposition
             ,
             you
             spend
             more
             time
             ,
             more
             paine
             then
             needs
             .
             For
             as
             when
             one
             would
             have
             made
             ,
             or
             did
             make
             a
             long
             Oration
             in
             the
             praise
             of
             
               Hercules
               ,
            
             another
             did
             put
             him
             off
             with
             this
             short
             answer
             ,
             What
             needs
             all
             this
             ?
             Who
             ever
             went
             about
             to
             dispraise
             him
             ?
             So
             I
             may
             say
             to
             you
             ,
             Who
             among
             us
             did
             ever
             bend
             the
             knee
             in
             divine
             adoration
             to
             a
             meere
             creature
             ?
             Therefore
             you
             might
             have
             omitted
             this
             as
             granted
             ,
             and
             have
             prosecuted
             the
             proof
             of
             your
             
               minor
            
             or
             assumption
             ,
             which
             how
             weakly
             &
             poorly
             you
             doe
             ,
             when
             you
             come
             at
             it
             ,
             will
             easily
             appeare
             upon
             a
             due
             examination
             of
             it
             .
             In
             the
             meane
             time
             ,
             you
             urge
             some
             things
             by
             the
             way
             ,
             at
             which
             we
             may
             take
             just
             exception
             ;
             as
             the
             definition
             of
             
             will-worship
             ,
             
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
            
             ,
             which
             you
             would
             fasten
             upon
             
               Perkins
               ,
            
             but
             unjustly
             ;
             for
             who
             of
             sound
             judgement
             would
             say
             ,
             that
             Will-worship
             is
             a
             worshipping
             of
             God
             ,
             with
             the
             intention
             of
             the
             heart
             ,
             and
             goes
             no
             farther
             ;
             how
             doth
             this
             distinguish
             it
             from
             true
             worship
             ?
             No
             ,
             he
             affirms
             it
             to
             be
             when
             God
             is
             worshipped
             with
             a
             naked
             and
             bare
             good
             intention
             ,
             not
             warranted
             by
             the
             Word
             of
             God
             .
             Againe
             ,
             you
             seeke
             an
             utter
             extirpation
             of
             all
             tradition
             that
             is
             humane
             ,
             wherein
             you
             deale
             with
             too
             much
             inhumanity
             against
             it
             :
             For
             it
             may
             no
             doubt
             in
             some
             kind
             be
             lawfull
             ,
             usefull
             ,
             so
             long
             as
             it
             doth
             not
             oppose
             Gods
             Word
             :
             Nor
             doe
             any
             of
             the
             learned
             (
             as
             far
             as
             I
             could
             ever
             reade
             )
             deny
             it
             in
             this
             respect
             :
             Even
             
               Perkins
            
             himselfe
             doth
             in
             the
             place
             where
             you
             cite
             him
             ,
             affirme
             as
             much
             :
             Nor
             is
             it
             any
             pollution
             of
             Gods
             worship
             ,
             no
             addition
             or
             diminution
             of
             Scripture
             ,
             (
             as
             you
             pretend
             )
             to
             make
             use
             of
             an
             indifferent
             Ceremonie
             .
             Lastly
             ,
             your
             implicite
             conclusion
             from
             the
             perfect
             example
             of
             our
             Saviour
             Christ
             ,
             (
             as
             you
             say
             )
             doth
             make
             explicitely
             against
             your selfe
             ;
             for
             standing
             hath
             as
             little
             relation
             to
             sitting
             ,
             as
             kneeling
             hath
             .
          
           
             You
             proceed
             now
             to
             the
             Assumption
             ,
             and
             seek
             to
             make
             good
             the
             proofe
             of
             it
             ,
             because
             (
             as
             you
             affirme
             ,
             but
             you
             doe
             not
             ,
             indeed
             you
             cannot
             confirme
             ,
             it
             )
             we
             reverence
             the
             actions
             ,
             and
             the
             things
             in
             the
             Sacrament
             more
             then
             we
             ought
             .
             In
             this
             you
             are
             quite
             mistaken
             ,
             and
             cannot
             be
             thought
             to
             write
             well
             ,
             (
             though
             you
             applaud
             your self
             never
             so
             much
             in
             this
             worke
             )
             because
             you
             distinguish
             no
             better
             :
             
               q
            
             for
             you
             confound
             using
             reverence
             in
             
             the
             actions
             ,
             and
             of
             the
             actions
             ,
             bowing
             the
             knee
             at
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             and
             to
             the
             Sacrament
             .
             Your
             Argument
             then
             is
             of
             no
             force
             ,
             unlesse
             you
             can
             prove
             we
             worship
             the
             actions
             ,
             or
             the
             Bread
             and
             Wine
             ,
             which
             I
             am
             sure
             you
             will
             never
             be
             able
             to
             doe
             .
          
           
             But
             lest
             all
             this
             should
             not
             availe
             to
             take
             away
             Kneeling
             ,
             you
             urge
             an
             Argument
             of
             
               Bellarmines
            
             to
             doe
             that
             for
             you
             ,
             which
             you
             cannot
             doe
             for
             your selfe
             :
             It
             should
             seeme
             the
             sword
             of
             the
             Scriture
             failing
             you
             ,
             you
             are
             glad
             to
             borrow
             a
             weapon
             from
             your
             adversarie
             ,
             and
             it
             is
             brandisht
             by
             you
             in
             this
             manner
             :
             If
             kneeling
             at
             the
             Sacrament
             may
             be
             as
             the
             Calvinists
             say
             ,
             without
             sin
             ,
             then
             it
             is
             not
             Idolatry
             to
             kneele
             before
             Images
             .
             To
             this
             I
             answer
             ,
             first
             ,
             that
             the
             case
             is
             not
             alike
             ;
             for
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             though
             it
             be
             a
             representation
             ,
             is
             not
             properly
             an
             Image
             .
             Besides
             ,
             we
             may
             be
             without
             Images
             ,
             we
             must
             not
             be
             without
             the
             Sacrament
             ;
             The
             one
             is
             peremtorily
             commanded
             ,
             the
             other
             onely
             in
             some
             sense
             permitted
             .
             Again
             ,
             I
             answer
             ,
             that
             to
             kneele
             before
             Images
             is
             not
             simply
             in
             it selfe
             unlawfull
             ,
             that
             is
             ,
             as
             the
             act
             hath
             no
             relation
             to
             the
             image
             ,
             no
             more
             then
             it
             is
             to
             kneele
             before
             a
             pewe
             ,
             or
             a
             pillar
             ;
             for
             the
             command
             is
             not
             ,
             that
             we
             should
             not
             bow
             before
             them
             ,
             but
             bow
             to
             them
             .
             
               r
            
          
           
             As
             little
             availeable
             is
             your
             following
             reason
             ,
             that
             we
             ought
             not
             to
             kneele
             ,
             because
             the
             Sacrament
             is
             
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
               {non-Roman}
            
             ,
             a
             giving
             of
             thanks
             ,
             and
             kneeling
             no
             fit
             gesture
             for
             thanksgiving
             .
             Certainly
             you
             have
             little
             ground
             for
             this
             opinion
             ;
             for
             if
             thanksvc
             :
             \balbir\cptx\print\print\ing
             
             be
             a
             part
             of
             Prayer
             ,
             (
             as
             who
             almost
             save
             your selfe
             will
             deny
             ?
             )
             what
             fitter
             posture
             can
             there
             be
             for
             it
             then
             kneeling
             ?
             Your
             instance
             of
             
               Solomon
            
             makes
             little
             to
             the
             purpose
             ;
             for
             first
             ,
             it
             is
             said
             ,
             
               He
               made
               an
               end
               of
               praying
               ;
            
             secondly
             ,
             that
             
               he
               stood
               to
               blesse
               the
               congregation
               :
            
             
               s
            
             So
             that
             it
             was
             not
             onely
             a
             thanksgiving
             unto
             God
             .
             And
             how
             unseemly
             it
             were
             in
             our
             publique
             prayers
             ,
             when
             we
             are
             upon
             our
             knees
             ,
             as
             soone
             as
             we
             come
             to
             a
             passage
             of
             thanksgiving
             ,
             to
             start
             up
             suddenly
             upon
             our
             feet
             ,
             let
             the
             Reader
             judge
             .
             Howbeit
             ,
             if
             examples
             in
             this
             point
             may
             be
             availeable
             ,
             it
             will
             be
             a
             matter
             of
             no
             great
             difficulty
             to
             produce
             some
             ,
             who
             have
             kneeled
             in
             their
             giving
             of
             thanks
             .
             The
             Apostle
             tels
             the
             Philippians
             ,
             that
             
               he
               thanks
               God
               upon
               every
               remembrance
               of
               them
               alwayes
               ,
               in
               every
               prayer
               that
               he
               makes
               for
               them
               .
            
             
               t
            
             Now
             it
             is
             not
             to
             be
             doubted
             ,
             but
             in
             some
             of
             those
             prayers
             he
             was
             upon
             his
             knees
             .
             The
             Samaritane
             Leper
             when
             he
             was
             cured
             did
             expresse
             greater
             reverence
             ;
             
               He
               fell
               downe
               on
               his
               face
               at
               the
               feet
               of
               Christ
               ,
               and
               gave
               him
               thanks
               .
            
             
               u
            
             But
             what
             should
             I
             speak
             of
             these
             ?
             Doe
             not
             the
             Angels
             and
             the
             Saints
             in
             heaven
             expresse
             their
             giving
             of
             thanks
             with
             all
             submission
             and
             reverence
             ?
             we
             know
             they
             doe
             ,
             for
             so
             we
             read
             ,
             
               w
            
             And
             if
             kneeling
             be
             fit
             to
             be
             used
             in
             Prayer
             ,
             it
             is
             so
             also
             in
             Thanksgiving
             ,
             for
             that
             is
             to
             be
             joyned
             with
             Prayer
             .
             
               x
            
             
               Continue
               in
               Prayer
               ,
               and
               watch
               in
               the
               same
               with
               thanksgiving
               ,
            
             saith
             the
             Apostle
             .
          
           
             Besides
             ,
             who
             will
             not
             confesse
             the
             gesture
             of
             kneeling
             in
             this
             action
             to
             be
             most
             becomming
             ?
             For
             if
             the
             Israelites
             receiving
             onely
             a
             message
             of
             
             their
             corporall
             deliverance
             ,
             by
             the
             ministery
             of
             
               Moses
               ,
               bowed
               their
               head
               and
               worshipped
               ,
            
             
               y
            
             surely
             we
             have
             greater
             reason
             when
             we
             receive
             an
             undoubted
             pledge
             of
             our
             spirituall
             deliverance
             by
             the
             death
             and
             passion
             of
             our
             blessed
             Saviour
             ,
             to
             humble
             our selves
             to
             Almighty
             God
             ,
             and
             upon
             our
             knees
             to
             offer
             up
             the
             sacrifice
             of
             praise
             &
             thanksgiving
             .
             We
             know
             that
             men
             doe
             many
             times
             upon
             their
             knees
             receive
             temporall
             favours
             from
             the
             hands
             of
             mortall
             Princes
             :
             Without
             doubt
             then
             it
             will
             become
             us
             to
             receive
             with
             all
             submission
             and
             reverence
             ,
             this
             spirituall
             favour
             from
             the
             hands
             of
             immortall
             God
             ,
             the
             great
             King
             of
             Kings
             .
          
           
             That
             Epistle
             of
             S.
             
               Aug.
            
             by
             you
             cited
             for
             the
             abolition
             of
             indifferent
             Ceremonies
             ,
             helps
             you
             little
             ,
             unlesse
             you
             will
             say
             he
             doth
             (
             which
             he
             doth
             not
             )
             contradict
             what
             he
             had
             delivered
             in
             the
             Epistle
             immediately
             going
             before
             :
             For
             there
             he
             gives
             this
             rule
             to
             
               Ianuarius
               ,
               Nulla
               disciplina
               est
               in
               his
               melior
               gravi
               prudentique
               Christiano
               ,
               quàm
               ut
               eo
               modo
               agat
               ,
               quo
               agere
               viderit
               Ecclesiam
               ,
               ad
               quamcunque
               forte
               devenerit
               .
            
             
               z
            
             In
             these
             things
             no
             discipline
             can
             be
             better
             for
             a
             grave
             and
             wise
             Christian
             ,
             then
             to
             demeane
             himself
             in
             that
             manner
             the
             Church
             doth
             ,
             to
             which
             it
             is
             his
             hap
             to
             come
             :
             And
             he
             confesses
             he
             tooke
             this
             rule
             from
             S.
             
               Ambrose
               ,
               Tanquam
               à
               coelesti
               oraculo
               ,
            
             as
             from
             some
             heavenly
             Oracle
             .
             Therefore
             if
             you
             would
             be
             indeed
             ,
             as
             you
             desire
             to
             be
             accounted
             ,
             a
             grave
             and
             wise
             Christian
             ,
             you
             must
             observe
             that
             discipline
             which
             is
             enjoyned
             by
             the
             Church
             wherein
             you
             live
             .
             And
             indeed
             in
             that
             Epistle
             you
             cite
             ,
             he
             is
             so
             far
             from
             disallowing
             the
             rule
             before
             
             mentioned
             ,
             that
             he
             doth
             highly
             commend
             it
             ,
             affirming
             of
             it
             ,
             that
             it
             is
             
               una
               &
               saluberrima
               regula
               retinenda
               ,
            
             
               a
            
             the
             onely
             wholsome
             rule
             to
             be
             observed
             .
          
           
             Your
             last
             Argument
             to
             take
             away
             Kneeling
             at
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             is
             drawn
             from
             the
             avoiding
             of
             an
             inconvenience
             :
             It
             is
             (
             say
             you
             )
             an
             occasion
             of
             scandall
             and
             offence
             .
             I
             answer
             ,
             The
             best
             actions
             may
             be
             so
             ;
             but
             then
             the
             offence
             is
             in
             those
             that
             take
             it
             ,
             not
             in
             those
             that
             give
             it
             .
             But
             I
             would
             fain
             know
             of
             you
             ,
             if
             sitting
             or
             standing
             should
             be
             substituted
             in
             the
             place
             of
             kneeling
             ,
             (
             for
             you
             seeme
             to
             be
             indifferent
             for
             either
             of
             these
             ,
             and
             I
             think
             would
             not
             care
             what
             the
             posture
             were
             ,
             so
             it
             were
             any
             other
             )
             how
             these
             could
             be
             used
             without
             scandall
             .
             For
             I
             perswade
             my selfe
             ,
             that
             as
             they
             would
             give
             more
             occasion
             of
             offence
             ,
             so
             they
             would
             give
             occasion
             of
             offence
             to
             more
             then
             kneeling
             doth
             .
             In
             this
             the
             greater
             number
             sure
             will
             side
             with
             us
             .
             To
             say
             nothing
             ,
             that
             whereas
             you
             can
             pretend
             onely
             the
             bond
             of
             charity
             ,
             we
             have
             besides
             this
             the
             bond
             of
             duty
             ,
             even
             the
             command
             of
             Authority
             ,
             which
             (
             as
             
               Beza
            
             observes
             )
             doth
             impose
             a
             kind
             of
             necessity
             .
             
               b
            
             
               Calvin
            
             also
             affirmes
             ,
             that
             where
             the
             doctrine
             is
             sound
             and
             pure
             ,
             and
             the
             Ceremonies
             tend
             to
             a
             civill
             decencie
             and
             honesty
             ,
             it
             is
             fit
             rather
             to
             submit
             unto
             them
             ,
             then
             to
             dissent
             about
             them
             ,
             
               c
            
             especially
             if
             the
             greater
             number
             carry
             it
             .
             Now
             suppose
             all
             the
             congregations
             in
             the
             Kingdome
             were
             united
             into
             one
             ,
             and
             the
             matter
             were
             to
             goe
             by
             votes
             ,
             I
             presume
             I
             may
             safely
             affirm
             ,
             that
             where
             you
             have
             ten
             for
             sitting
             or
             standing
             severally
             ,
             nay
             for
             both
             joyntly
             ,
             we
             for
             kneeling
             shall
             have
             an
             hundred
             .
             
             This
             reason
             therefore
             of
             yours
             is
             of
             no
             validity
             ,
             seeing
             scandall
             would
             not
             be
             lessened
             ,
             but
             encreased
             by
             this
             meanes
             .
          
           
             You
             draw
             now
             to
             a
             conclusion
             ;
             and
             so
             would
             I
             too
             ,
             for
             I
             am
             even
             wearied
             with
             following
             you
             in
             such
             a
             confused
             course
             ,
             but
             that
             I
             meet
             with
             one
             thing
             which
             will
             detain
             me
             a
             while
             .
             Indeede
             a
             good
             Christian
             ,
             nay
             a
             good
             Subject
             ,
             though
             a
             Heathen
             ,
             could
             not
             passe
             by
             it
             without
             offence
             :
             Are
             the
             names
             of
             Kings
             (
             thinke
             you
             )
             fit
             things
             to
             be
             plaid
             upon
             ,
             or
             to
             be
             stigmatized
             by
             the
             pens
             of
             private
             persons
             ?
             if
             not
             ,
             what
             meanes
             your
             new
             coind
             word
             
               Carolicall
               ?
               Minutius
            
             records
             of
             
               Mercurius
               Tresmegistus
               ,
            
             that
             even
             the
             Heathen
             ,
             because
             he
             was
             a
             great
             Philosopher
             ,
             would
             not
             use
             his
             name
             without
             great
             reverence
             :
             Is
             there
             not
             as
             much
             respect
             due
             to
             Kings
             ,
             as
             to
             Philosophers
             ?
             
               Suetonius
            
             reports
             of
             
               Augustus
               Caesar
               ,
            
             he
             wrote
             to
             the
             Senate
             of
             
               Rome
               ,
            
             to
             take
             order
             that
             his
             name
             might
             not
             
               absole
               fieri
               ,
            
             be
             worn
             thread
             bare
             among
             the
             common
             people
             ,
             by
             their
             frequent
             and
             triviall
             using
             of
             it
             ;
             And
             can
             our
             King
             then
             take
             it
             wel
             at
             your
             hands
             you
             should
             abuse
             his
             name
             ,
             and
             that
             in
             so
             serious
             and
             weighty
             a
             matter
             as
             Religion
             ?
             Surely
             when
             I
             consider
             this
             ,
             I
             cannot
             a
             little
             wonder
             at
             your
             inconsiderate
             boldnesse
             ,
             nay
             ,
             irreligious
             impietie
             .
             For
             if
             a
             Subject
             may
             not
             revile
             his
             Prince
             ,
             no
             not
             in
             his
             thoughts
             ,
             
               d
            
             much
             lesse
             is
             he
             to
             doe
             it
             in
             his
             words
             ,
             especially
             in
             such
             as
             proceede
             not
             from
             suddain
             passion
             ,
             but
             from
             mature
             deliberation
             ,
             and
             being
             committed
             to
             the
             presse
             ,
             are
             exposed
             to
             a
             publique
             view
             .
             I
             could
             
             never
             heare
             that
             his
             Majesty
             is
             any
             way
             tainted
             in
             Religion
             ,
             you
             may
             justly
             be
             suspected
             ,
             therefore
             I
             shall
             rether
             follow
             that
             Church
             ,
             which
             is
             (
             if
             I
             may
             lawfully
             repeat
             the
             terme
             you
             use
             )
             
               Carolical
               ,
            
             then
             that
             which
             is
             
               Peytonicall
               ,
            
             that
             is
             ,
             rather
             the
             Doctrine
             ,
             and
             the
             Discipline
             of
             the
             Church
             of
             
               England
               ,
            
             then
             the
             fancies
             and
             factions
             of
             some
             few
             Sectaries
             ,
             and
             Schismaticks
             .
          
           
             And
             now
             I
             will
             shut
             up
             all
             with
             an
             inversion
             of
             your
             conclusion
             .
             Seeing
             kneeling
             at
             the
             receiving
             of
             the
             Sacrament
             ,
             is
             in
             it selfe
             a
             Ceremony
             that
             is
             indifferent
             ;
             seeing
             it
             is
             as
             judicious
             
               Hooker
            
             terms
             it
             ,
             the
             gesture
             of
             pietie
             ;
             
               e
            
             nay
             ,
             as
             
               Beza
            
             himselfe
             acknowledgeth
             ,
             doth
             carry
             a
             shew
             of
             pious
             reverence
             ;
             
               f
            
             seeing
             it
             is
             enjoyned
             by
             authority
             ,
             and
             that
             of
             the
             King
             ,
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
             of
             the
             State
             ;
             seeing
             it
             is
             practised
             by
             the
             generality
             ;
             seeing
             it
             is
             refused
             only
             by
             some
             few
             out
             of
             singnlarity
             ,
             
               Qui
               nisi
               quod
               ipsi
               faciunt
               nihil
               rectum
               existimant
               ,
            
             as
             Saint
             
               Aug.
            
             speaks
             ,
             
               g
            
             who
             thinke
             nothing
             to
             be
             right
             but
             what
             they
             doe
             themselves
             ,
             you
             ought
             not
             to
             require
             at
             my
             hands
             an
             administration
             of
             the
             Sacramen
             unto
             you
             standing
             ,
             or
             to
             be
             offended
             with
             me
             or
             any
             other
             ,
             who
             
               (
               rebus
               sic
               stantibus
               )
            
             shall
             refuse
             to
             satisfie
             your
             desire
             ,
             that
             he
             may
             comply
             with
             the
             authority
             of
             the
             Church
             .
          
           
             
               
                 Mart.
                 15.
                 1642.
                 
              
            
             
               Imprimatur
               ,
               Tho
               :
               Wykes
               .
            
          
           
             FINIS
             .
          
           
        
      
    
     
       
         Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
         
           Notes for div A33596e-160
           
             a
             Eccles.
             12.
             12
             
          
           
             b
             Judg.
             17.
             6.
             
          
           
             c
             2
             Tim.
             2.
             7.
             
          
           
             d
             
               Pag.
            
             133.
             
          
           
             e
             Heb.
             4.
             12.
             
          
           
             f
             
               In
               Epist
               ad
               Ephes.
            
          
           
             g
             
               Epist.
            
             119.
             
             
               Cap.
            
             15.
             
          
           
             h
             118.
             
             
               Epist.
               Cap.
            
             2.
             
          
           
             i
             
               Thes.
               Belg.
            
             3.
             
               art
               .
            
             6.
             
          
           
             k
             1
             Cor.
             14.
             40.
             
          
           
             l
             
               In
               Rom.
            
             14.
             5
             
          
           
             m
             
               Li.
            
             4.
             
               cap.
            
             10
             
               sect.
            
             32.
             
          
           
             n
             
               Cent.
               Helvid
               .
            
          
           
             o
             Colos.
             2.
             9.
             
          
           
             p
             1
             Cor.
             1.
             13.
             
          
           
             q
             
               qui
               bene
               distinguit
               ,
               bene
               direct
               .
            
          
           
             r
             Exod.
             20.
             5.
             
          
           
             s
             1
             Kings
             8.
             55.
             
          
           
             t
             Philip
             .
             3.
             4.
             
          
           
             u
             Luke
             17.
             16.
             
          
           
             w
             Revel.
             7.
             11.
             
             &
             11.
             16.
             
          
           
             x
             Colos.
             4.
             2.
             
          
           
             y
             Exod.
             4.
             31.
             
          
           
             z
             
               Epist.
            
             118.
             
             
               Cap.
            
             2.
             
          
           
             a
             
               Aug.
               Epist.
            
             119.
             
             
               Cap.
            
             18.
             
          
           
             b
             
               Epist.
            
             24.
             
          
           
             c
             
               Epist.
            
             254.
             
          
           
             d
             Eccles.
             10.
             20.
             
          
           
             e
             
               Ecclesiast
               .
               polit.
               lib.
            
             5.
             
          
           
             f
             
               Epist.
            
             12.
             
          
           
             g
             
               Epist.
            
             118.
             
             
               Cap.
            
             2.
             
          
        
      
      
  

