an answer without a question, or, the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded being presented to the juncto at westminster, august 16, 1646 by colonel pride and lievtenant colonel goffe and others by the appointment of the lord fairfax their general : with some observations upon the mistery of their iniquity, and the juncto's answer thereunto / written by that reverend divine, doctor holdisworth ... holdsworth, richard, 1590-1649. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a44133 of text r40997 in the english short title catalog (wing h2392). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 12 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a44133 wing h2392 estc r40997 19569295 ocm 19569295 109111 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a44133) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 109111) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1690:2) an answer without a question, or, the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded being presented to the juncto at westminster, august 16, 1646 by colonel pride and lievtenant colonel goffe and others by the appointment of the lord fairfax their general : with some observations upon the mistery of their iniquity, and the juncto's answer thereunto / written by that reverend divine, doctor holdisworth ... holdsworth, richard, 1590-1649. 8 p. [s.n.], london printed : 1649. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. eng pride, thomas, d. 1658. religious tolerance -church of england. schism. great britain -church history -17th century. a44133 r40997 (wing h2392). civilwar no an answer without a question: or, the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded. being present holdsworth, richard 1649 2155 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. 2008-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2008-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2009-01 sarah allison sampled and proofread 2009-01 sarah allison text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer without a question : or , the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded . being presented to the juncto at westminster , august 16. 1646. by colonel pride , and lievtenant colonel goffe , and others ; by the appointment of the lord fairfax their general . with some observations upon the mistery of their iniquity ; and the juncto's answer thereto . written by that reverend divine , doctor holdisworth , a little before his death ; and by him desired to be brought to publick view . london , printed in the blessed yeer of the admission of the turkish alcaron into this kingdom , 1649. an ansvver without a question : or , the late schismatical petition expounded . when i first lookt upon the simply prophane title of that impious petition which the two-horn'd beast presented to the seven-headed monster at westminster , i could do no less then deride their simplicity , and condemn their insufferable demand for a diabolical toleration : certainly it was penned by that pragmatical fellow , colonel pride the devils secretary , who being diserted by the other six deadly sins ( who are gone with cromwel ) in a melancholy , proceeding from a cholerick rather then a suspicious humour , wrote this presumptious and damnable command , disguising it with the hackney roabes of a petition , and leading tom indifferent by the nose , let him see it through his fingers , who , poor fool ( being used to it ) according to his breeding , signed it : but to speak truth , fairfax that necessary evil was a fool , and pride that nominal and natural devil , proved himself a knave : the one for not looking on it but with another mans spectacles ; the other for cheating him and the world by his hypocritically humble petition , and pretended spirit of faith and supplication : but he doth not only seek to cheat men , but to mock god , he would put a trick upon his divine majesty , by fathering that upon him , which he never intended , as that the victory ( if they had one ) was given by god to them in ireland , as the fruit of that faith & supplication which god hath powred forth on the hearts of the people , to the bringing down the common enemy , &c. when it is evident , that whatever they have done since these wars , hath proceeded from our sins as the causa sine qua non , and not from their righteousness : i confess they be gods servants , but no otherwise then nebuchadnezzar was , to punish the israelites , and then god will punish him : but how impudently they persevere in their prophane expressions ! taking the lords name in vain , by dissembling that they fight under his banner , and that by the same power and presence that hath made bare his arm in the late victory , wickedly intimating that god fought for them and their ioshuah at dublin , they tender to this conventicle their annexed proposals as full of heresie and blasphemy as this exordium is of hypocrisie . first they condemne those which sometimes they hold infallible , of a crime , in making ordinances of parliament ( which indeed were the best that ever they made ) whereby many conscientious people are much molested , &c. meaning that by those ordinances sectaries & hereticks , whom they term conscientious people , were hindered from dispersing their damnable tenents : but see how they sport with god , engaging him in every business , that the spirit of christ flowing forth in his servants for the declaring his name in the nation , may not be suppressed , but receive all due encouragement : what fair pretences these impostures have ? such as would deceive the very elect if it were possible : but their actions are so contrary to their expressions , that any one may perceive they make heaven their pander , earth their bawdy-house , and the devil their servant , who hath endeavoured such a toleration in many kingdoms , but could never prevail till now he found how devoted the whore of england was to him , he hath gotten what he lookt for , which makes him not doubt of good success : for having once sowed this seed , he shall ever after have a great crop , besides he is in hope that these his servants by his help , may bring other countries to it in a yeer or two , which he in almost two thousand yeers could not do : but now to their second proposal . secondly , and because we are sensible , that through the subtilty of sathan , &c. surely the devil gave them leave to abuse him , or else they durst not be so dis-obediently wicked as to speak against their own father : but if they displease him in these , they please him in the following lines : and make the worst of it , they do but break his head , and presently give him a plaister far better then a mountebancks balsom , which comes in just as the devil would have it , we therefore from our hearts do humbly declare , that it is not our meaning , that the liberty before desired by us should extend to the toleration of popery , prelacy , the book of common-prayer , &c. this reconciles the devil unto them , for now he finds that all their intentions , words , and actions , tend to the exaltation of his kingdom : for although popery be excluded , yet he is fully recompenced in the abolishing of prelacy and uniformity : besides , one heresie is more profitable to him then a thousand papistical fopperies : for he will suddenly bring in as many heresies as houses , and as many opinions as there be people : to adde to the number , he hath got leave , that a servant of his , a saint of the last edition , should translate that academy of heresies , the turkish alcoran , which in the dayes of queen elizabeth , king james , and king charls of blessed memory , was treason in any one to transport hither , much less translate : and that it might be more vendible and acceptable , all the gross absurdities are left out , as a learned and holy man of this kingdom hath observed . the turkish alcaron saith he is abroad , but that the reader may not be abused , let him know , that all the most gross , absurd , ridiculous blasphemies , and impossible fictions which were wont to make that wicked volumn justly odious to the world , are left out in the english translation ; for my part i know not how to construe it , but as done in too much favour to the mahumetan mis-religion : the pretence of the error must be this , the english translator follows the version of a frenchman , too much it seems interested in the turkish court , for being employed from the french king as his agent at constantinople , was likewise re-employed by the turk into france , and taking upon him to translate this worthy work as he calls it , out of the arabick , thought fit ( for what ends he knew best ) to take the best , and leave the worst : know this reader , and resolve that thou canst not enough hate that pack of mahumetan fopperies , which chiefly aime at the disparagement of thy saviour , and the de-crying of the blessed trinity . thus far the observator gives his censure of the alcaron : now i will leave this to the impartial reader to judge what a medly of religions we shall have ; amsterdam must be beholding to us , as we have been formerly to them , for new opinions : we shall be as much cryed up for rarieties of religion , as the french-men for fashions ; as for the socinians , nistorians , arrians , &c. they will look like old fashion dublets : we must have the german anabaptist , the scottish presbyter , and the english independent , the epitomy of heresie . but now they stop up this gappe of iniquity with some pretended spriggs of righteousness : viz. we further desire , that through your care and zeal , all open acts of prophaness , as drunkenness , swearing , vncleanness , &c. be vigorously proceeded against and punisht in all persons whatsoever . but this they do for their profit and recreation , and not out of any godly principle , for by this , the encrease of the rich mens sins will be the augmentation of the saints wealth ; and the misdemeanours of the poor , will be the recreation of the rich ; so that as heretofore they have prospered by the devils help , by their own wickedness , they shall hereafter grow rich by the sins of the people . now that they may seem to be as merciful as severe , they desire that which the other dare not deny , and with their accustomed prophaness thus go on , that upon the sence of this great mercy lately received from god , your hearts will be moved to extend your favour so far as may stand with the safety of this present government , to those who have formerly served you , &c. still they reiterate monkes lie , the great victory that the annals of the saints boasts of in ireland , and therefore as a manifestation of their joy , they should set free the spirit of contradiction , lilburn and his bastards the levellers , which i wish they may do , that those firebrands may burn up all the blocks and loggerheads of the three kingdoms : but i believe foolish jack presbyter may wait long enough for this day of deliverance ; for they mean ( by those that have formerly served them ) none but the generation of vipers the levellers : but these drops of mercy end in a showre of cruelty , for after they have pleaded for their brethren in iniquity , they furiously demand , that for the future , all disturbers of the publick peace be vigorously proceeded against : this thundering sentence is like a pedagogues menaces , you shall be whipt if you do so any more : but i dare swear , if jack lilburn and his confederates once get loose , they will not fear to play truant , and perhaps before christmas wil shut their masters out of the school , and vigorously proceed against them , as the disturbers of the publick peace : but now ( that they may be the better thought of by the communalty ) they like publick persons desire , that speedy considerations may be had of those great oppressions which the people of this nation groan under by reason of the multiplicity of unnecessary laws , &c. this were a good request if cordial , especially if they would stand to the performance of it : for first , all those unnecessary waste papers , acts and ordinances made by this heretical parliament , should be re-called , and then these catterpillers of the kingdom ( which be the greatest oppressors that ever people groaned under ) should be taken away . but now i come to the junctoes answer . the officers after the reading of the same , were called in , and master speaker in the name of the house gave them thanks , and in particular for the petition . they durst not do otherwise : i le undertake if they had demanded five of the most innocent in the house to be delivered to them to suffer condign punishment , they should have them with all their hearts ; and therefore in such a thing as this is , they must needs consent ; for they would if they durst , long before this , have voted not only diversity of religions , but variety of gods , and plurality of wives . thus they combine with hell to dis-enthrone the king of heaven , as they have done their own : nor ever will they quiet be , untill with lucifer , they be flung down to hell . finis . healing queries for sick churches that is, some seasonable thing begun, whereby the present breaches in churches may be repaired, future rents and divisions prevented, and so all the lords people have communion not in darknesse but light / published, by a friend to the virgin daughter of zion. friend to the virgin daughter of zion. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a43196 of text r12197 in the english short title catalog (wing h1303). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 26 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 7 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a43196 wing h1303 estc r12197 13016561 ocm 13016561 96550 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a43196) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 96550) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 741:25) healing queries for sick churches that is, some seasonable thing begun, whereby the present breaches in churches may be repaired, future rents and divisions prevented, and so all the lords people have communion not in darknesse but light / published, by a friend to the virgin daughter of zion. friend to the virgin daughter of zion. [4], 8 p. [s.n.], london : 1658. reproduction of original in huntington library. eng schism. concord. a43196 r12197 (wing h1303). civilwar no healing queries for sick churches. that is, some seasonable thing begun, whereby the present breaches in churches may be repaired: future re friend to the virgin daughter of zion 1658 4887 7 0 0 0 0 0 14 c the rate of 14 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2006-12 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-01 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2007-01 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion healing qveries for sick chvrches . that is , some seasonable thing begun , whereby the present breaches in churches may be repaired : future rents and divisions prevented ; and so all the lords people have communion not in darknesse but light . published , by a friend to the virgin daughter of zion . jer. 8. 22. is there no balm in gilead ? is there no physitian there ? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered ? london , printed in the year , 1658. to all the gathered chvrches in england , scotland and ireland , peace with holines be wished . men , fathers and brethren , i may say in jacobs words : why do ye look one upon another ? behold i have heard that there is corn in aegypt , gen. 42. 12. parents as they are deeply affected with their childrens afflictions : so they are carefull to use what means they can for their recovery . it is very pious and christian , for the divisions of reuben there be great thoughts of heart . indeed our eyes cannot weep enough for the breaches among brethren : yet this is but part of our duty . get thee up ( saith god to joshua ) wherefore lyest thou upon thy face ? josh. 7. 10. not blaming him for his mourning , but telling him there was more work to be done . there are three reasons ( which i shall name ) why i have published these queries . first , that they may be of some use to pastours and teachers of churches : who are most concerned in seeking to heale the breaches among them . now i do not see away more probable for healing , than to look into the cause of their differences . as for example , when some brethren are not satisfied about the place of triers ; cannot comfortably joyn in communion with souldiers : nor with such as have civill offices under the present government : think it a publikc scandall to religion , that church-members should be jaylors and judges of the saints ; and shew no cause why they persecute them : here it is the ministers duty in a speciall manner to appear , where such offences are taken . and by sound doctrine prove ( if he can ) that these scruples and questions do arise through the ignorance , and weaknes of the brethren , and that they are offences taken , but not given . secondly , of some use to such brethren as desire to keep themselves pure , and not be partakers of other mens sins : i hope without any further enlargment , those who know what it is not to defile their garments , god will inable them to make a fruitfull improvement of these queries . thirdly , because i do intend to prosecute this subject about churches a little further ; these queries concern churches already constituted : but i have something to publish for their sakes , who are not yet in church fellowship . lift up your eyes and look on the fields ; for they are white already to harvest , joh. 4. 35. here i shall shew ( so far as may be hinted by queries : ) first , what things are necessary that saints agree upon as uniting principles : secondly , what things ( as differences ) may be born with : thirdly , what opinions and practises are destructive to the peace and growth of churches , which hereafter shall be constituted . because of the house of jehovah our god , i will seek good for thee , psal. 122. 9. but in the queries one thing i forgot ; whereas some church officers a while since took great liberty and boldness to write against the misdemeanour of the late king , and in their sermons , had often that text , judg. 5. 23. curse ye meroh , &c. what is the reason that doctrine is now laid aside ? i move this question , to the end that such who are herein concerned may vindicate themselves : for it is generally said , if that which they wrote and preacht against the king , had been done sincerely , and in the fear of god , they would now by preaching and writing , as earnestly perswade people to lcome forth to the help of the lord against the mighty , as they did then . the close is thus , so that i may be any way usefull for the overthrowing of iniquity , in church and state , and the advancement of righteousness in both , i have my end : with me it is a very small thing to be judged of mans judgment : my judgment is with the lord , and my work with my god . healing queries for sick churches . question i. whether in a church rightly constituted , every member is not alike under the power of christ , given to the church ; that is , whosoever breaks the known laws of christ , ought to be admonished and dealt with according to mat. 18. 15 , 16 , 17 , 〈◊〉 . 16. 17. 1 thess. 3. 14. levit. 19. 17. gal. 5. 12. 1 tim. 1. 20. quest . ii. whether such church members as know any of their brethren ( in the same fellowship with them ) walk disorderly to the dishonour of god , the scandal of religion , and hardning wicked men in their sins ; do not wrap themselves in the sin and guilt of their brethren ; yea , and are murderers before god , if they seek not to reclaim them , according to the rules of the gospel , lev. 19. 17. with 1 joh. 3. 15. ezec. 3. 18. jam. 5. 19. 20. gal. 6. 1. quest . iii. if a brother or brethren sin openly , and the same is known to the whol church , but the church useth not the means and way , which christ hath appointed for the humbling and recovering of such scandalous members : the question is , whether the whole church be not leavened , and her holy things polluted ? yea , further , it may be queried by what gospel promise such a people can expect the presence of christ in the midst of them , so long as they remain thus rebellious against the lord , and the whol lump leavened : 1 tim. 5. 20. hag. 2. 12 , 13 , &c. 1 cor. 5. 6. isa. 1. 11. to 17. josh. 7. 12. hab. 1. 13. jer. 7. 8 , 9. gen 35. 2 , 3 , 4. amos 3. 3. quest . iv. whether churches are to take cognizance of the sins mentioned by paul in 2 tim. 3. 2 , 3 , &c. and more particularly , whether it be their duty to enquire and judge , who are the traitours and covenant breakers , there foretold to be in the last dayes ; briefly , whether churches , ( as churches ) ought to judge the actions of their members in civill things , that is , about the lawfulness of mens callings , places , offices , administrations , maintenance ? suppose it be state affairs , ( as they call it ) what hath the church to do with her members in such a case ? 1 cor. 6. 2. 1 thes. 4 6. phil. 4. 8. 1 cor. 10. 32. 33. 2 tim. 4. 5. rev. 2. 2. heb. 10. 24. quest . v. whether such church members walk not scandalously and bring a publick dishonour to the name of god , who joyn and act with the open enemies of the gospel against the saints ; that is , persecute their brethren , apprehend them , and cast them into prison , will be their judges and jaylors , and yet have no matter of crime to lay to their charge ? if so , whether then it be not a great sin and shame to that church , who keeps in her bosom any open persecutors of the lords people , psal. 50. 18. obe . v. 11 , 12 , 13 , &c. mat. 24. 48 , 49 , 50. act. 9. 4 , 5 , mat. 25. 39 , 40 43 , 45. ps , 93. 5 1 pet. 2. 12 quest . vi . in case the greater number of a church shall tolerate and allow apparent sin , in some members , and not deal with them for the same ? what is the duty of the other part ( howsoever the lesser ) knowing the walking of such members to be very scandalous and sinfull ( and yet born with by the greater number ) that they may keep themselves pure , and not be partakers of others mens sin . 2 cor. 6. 17. 2 tim. 3. 2. 3. 5. hos. 11. 12. 1. tim. 5. 22. hos. 2. 2. rev. 3. 4. or thus , if known scandalous persons are in a church , and the church is dealt with for suffering the same ? whether that church may lawfully be left and separated from , by brethren ( many or few , yet so as the lesser number ) who have used all due means and wayes ( so far as their duty is ) to have the church purged of such defilements ? but the major part will not heare , but rather abets the sinners and justifies the wicked ? again , if the greater number in such a case may be left , the question is whether as a true church , or a company of rebels , and the visible church . state remain with the better part , though fewer in number , rev. 2. 5. jer. 7. 11 , 12. mat. 21. 13 eccles. 9. 18. 2 chro. 15. 2. prov. 17. 15. jer. 28. 16. quest . vii . whether a church lying under the guilt of much sin should not please god far more to execute justice and judgement , that is , purge out the old leaven , and destroy the accursed from among them , than to pray , preach , fast , break bread , &c. yea more , so long as judgment is neglected , and nothing done against scandalous walkers ? where is there any promise that the lord will accept of their sacrifices , as prayer , preaching , fasting , &c. prov. 21. 3. 1 sam. 15. 22. &c. isa. 1. 11 hos. 6. 6. mic. 6. 6 , 7 , 8. isa. 33. 5. mic. 3. 10 , 11 , 12. jer. 7. 21. 23. mat. 23. 23 , 24. mat. 5. 23 , 2● . rev. 2. 12. jam. 4. 8. 1 pet. 2. 1 , 2. quest . viii . seeing it is well known how the churches have been charged with apostacy publickly to the world , and in them ( as it is asserted ) the second apostacy is fulfilled , set down in 2 tim. 3. 1 , 2 , &c. it is queried , why some thing is not published for their vindication ; besides it is desired that they will declare , 1. what apostacy that is of which paul there speaks , 2. to what time it is to be applied , 3. how it doth appear that such churches as are fallen in with the present government , have not by it made that apostacy . 4. what is meant by these words in the text from such turn a side , 2 pet. 3. 15. josh. 22. 10 , 11. tit. 1. 9. act. 11. 2 , 3 , 4. &c. quest . ix . whether such pastors and teachers of churches , as joyn with this present government , and have much worldly advantage by it ; do not by their silence shew either great ingratitude to their lord protector , being as they say a nursing father to them ( if they can justifie the power and government which he hath taken up : ) or otherwise , whether they give not just occasion unto people to think they cannot justifie him , by law , reason , religion , &c. and so it is rather of coveteousness than conscience , that they are faln in with him ; besides by their silence , whether they deal not the more unworthily with their nursing father , ( if they can defend him ) considering they well know , how the most conscientious christians in the nation are altogether dissatisfied about the present government . prov. 27. 10. & 22. 1. quest . x. whereas that place rom. 13. 1 , 2 , &c. is by our brethren often brought against us ( as they know it was once the speciall objection of royalists against them and us , ) let every soule be subject to the higher powers , &c. here we shall propose a few things , 1. if the higher powers must be submitted too , because they are ordained of god , and are gods ordnanceiv . whether it be not meant , so far as they are lawfully constituted , & do govern according to reason and just laws , preserve their peoples liberties , persons and estates ; again , when they prove traitors to the nation , and are the devils agents , whether they may not be severely punished for it . 2. because these who resist lawfull authority and just commands receive to themselves condemnation ; it be not a non sequitur ; ergo , usurpers must be submitted too , and unjust commands obeyed . 3. rulers must be obeyed , because they are not a terror to good works but to evill , v. 3. whether this be a good consequence , when they are profest enemies to good works , and do evill continually with both hands ; therefore they must be obeyed . 4. seeing the magistrate is to be obeyed , because he bears not the sword in vain , he is the minister of god , a revenger to execute wrath on him that doth evill , v. 4. here the query may be , if he seek to ruin , spoil , and enslave the people , gives liberty to all manner of unrighteousnes , bears the sword not onely in vain , in reference to the publick good , but draws it forth upon those that are good , and because they are good , whither it be the intendment of this text , therefore he must be obeyed . 5. whither that which is not the ordinance of god , but rather of the devill , and the meer sin , and presumption of men , is within the compasse of this text . 6. whether that which is no point or part of the magistrates lawfull power ordained of god , but diametrically repugnant to it , as tyranny , oppression , violence , &c. is within the verge of this text , and to be obeyed for conscience fake . 7. whether all the powers intended in the text , said to be ordained of god , are not circumscribed and bounded with certain rules of law , justice , and honesty , within which they must contain themselves , and if they passe beyond those limits , they are none of gods ordinances ; consider of it , take advise and speak your mindes . judg. 19. 30. prov. 22. 21. quest . xi . whereas one special cause of the present differences divisions , and rents in churches , is this ; namely , that souldiers and others , who have places under the present government ( being church members ) are not called to an account as evill doers : the question is , whether it be not the duty of churches , ( especially the officers ) for the satisfaction of their offended brethren , to give some reasons , that howsoever there is offence taken at souldiers and other state officers , yet they have the word of god to warrant their practise in holding communion with them , isa. 8. 20. 2 tim. 3. 16 , 17 tit. 1. 9. 2 tim. 2. 24 , 25. acts 20 2● . 2 cor. 1. ●4 . 1 thess. 2. 7 , 8 , &c. quest . xii . in like manner , where as it is well known that the place of tryers . ( as it is commonly called ) hath given offence to many pretious christians , and occasioned much trouble in some churches , no lesse than division ; the query is , whether it be not the duty of such triers as are church-members to prove ( if they can ) what they act in that particular business to be lawfull by the word of god , 1 cor. 10. 32 , 33. 1 pet. 5. 2 , 3. 1 cor. 8. 12 , 13. & 9. 22 , 23. 1 thess. 5. 22. 1 joh. 2. 10. isa. 57. 14. 2 cor. 8. 21 & 13. 7. quest . xiii . whereas in the dayes of the late king , many honest men for refusing to submit to an arbitrary power , and illegall taxes , and standing for the rights and liberties of the people , suffered very much in their liberties and estates , and were counted for it , good patriots to their country : the question is , if in churches there are some persons , who shall promote an arbitrary power , and seek to destroy the civill rights and liberties of the people ? whether this be not a scandall to religion , and a matter which the church is to take notice off , and to deal with such members as offenders , 1 cor. 6. 8 , 9. 1 tim. 1. 13. job 24. 2. psal. 50. 18. deut. 19. 14. & 27 17. prov. 22. 28. phil. 4 8. 1 thess , 4. 12. quest . xiv . whether in all ages the lord hath not had some glorious work proper to every generation ; if so , what is the work now , as most proper to the saints of this generation ; acts 13. 36. 2 tim. 3. 1. 5. or thus , whether to bear witness to and for the glorious and visible kingdome of jesus christ , and to hold forth a publick testimony against the present powers of the world , that they shall be all broken to pieces , and the lord alone exalted as king of saints and nations ; be not now a work more proper to the churches and people of god than it was to saints in former ages ; dan. 2. 44 & 7. 13 , 14. & 12. 8 , 9 , 10. rev. 22. 10. act. 1. 6 , 7. isa. 35. 5. quest . xv . whereas rev. 11. 16. there is mention made of the twenty foure elders , but the foure living creatures , are left out of the text ; the question is , whether it may not probably be concluded from the place , ( comparing our present experience with it ) that neer or about the expiration of the fourth monarchy , when the kingdoms of this world , are to become the kingdomes of our lord and his christ ; there will be a generall declining of church-officers from the work of that generation , and the brethren , ( not in office ) more faithfull than their pastors and teachers , in holding forth a publick testimony to the glorious kingdom and and reign of christ , psal. 8. 2. isa. 26. 2. jer. 50. 45. 1 cor. 1. 26 , 27. isa. 29. 9. 10 , 11 , 12. 18. & 43. 27. rev. 12. 4. joel 3. 15 , 16. quest . xvi . whereas the late divisions and rents in many churches have risen from souldiers and others , who have places under the present government ; it be not necessary that all churches ( as yet free from the occasion of such trouble ) do well consider what they do , before they admit souldiers and others ( so much excepted against ) into church fellowship ? again , for others who either intend to joyn to some church already gathered , or to constitute themselves a church ? whether it do not likewise very much concern them to avoid that thing which others have been so much prejudiced by : as a wise man will not run his ship upon that rock , on which he sees another vessel is split before his eyes . prov. 22. 3. ezra 4. 1 , 2 , 3. 1 cor. 5. 6. quest . xvii . whether churches in such a day as this is , should not make diligent enquiry , what it is that hinders their glory and growth ? what it is that keeps the bad in , and the good out ? whence it is that they do not experience so much life , sweetnesse , and divine presence in church ordinances as formerly they did ? again , would they be conscientious , and sincere in searching for the cause ? then , whether it would not be found : first , negligence in some officers , who look more after the world than after the walking of their flock , and seek to keep up state and pompe in their own family , more than purity and holines in the house of god . secondly , arrogancy and pride in some members who being statesmen , are like the sons of zerviah , too hard for the rest : for through fear some dare not speak to them of their scandalous walking ; others by gifts and preferment have their mouths stopt , though not their consciences , others care not for it , as if ( caa●like ) they were not their brothers keeper , thus though the wickednes of some church members be like gehazis leprosie upon the fore head of the church ; and the world cryes shame on it ; yet the church hath neither an ear to hear , nor an ey to see , lam. 3. 40. josh. 7. 5 , 6. 2 cor. 7. 9 , 10 , 11. ezec. 3. 4 , 5 , &c. mat. 18 7. quest . xviii . whether unfaithfulness among churches in neglecting their christian duty each to other , that is , not admonishing one another of the great corruption , which they see crept into churches ( especially the deceitfull walking of some church-officers , who were winked at , when they openly sought by letters and other wayes to corrupt the churches ) hath not ( by the just hand of god ) brought many troubles and divisions upon them : again , if a church be corrupted by suffering scandalous persons in it , what is the duty of a sister church knowing the same to , be true ? and how far , and how long may a church hold communion with any church , which keeps scandalous persons in communion howsoever admonished of it . quest . xix . whether the stop , that hath been put to the lords work , and the good old cause once famous in the three nations , with what present oppression and persecution is amongst us : hath not been raised and continued in a speciall manner , by some church-members ; and whether such church members have not been more false to the interest of christ and his people , then any other people , and betrayed the most glorious cause that ever was in the world . jer. 11. 15. quest . xx . whether pride and covetousness ( so much condemned in holy scripture ) are sins to be born with in churches ? if not , what is the reason that few ( if any ) church members , though never so apparently proud and coveteous are called to an account for such sins . besides , whether for pride and coveteousnesse , some within do not far exceed most withovt ; prov. 8. 13 hos. 5. 5. 1 joh. 2. 16. isa. 2. 12. mal. 3. 15. 2 tim. 3. 2. jam. 4. 6. psal. 10. 3. 1 cor. 6 10. ephes 5. 5. luk. 12. 15. col 3. 5. isa. 5● . 11. ezec. 16. 48. 51. 1 cor. 5. 4 thou canst not bear them that do evill , rev. 2. 2. quest . xxi . whereas the name of god and religion , lies under so much reproach everywhere , by reason of the apostacy , hypo ●●●●hood of professors ; for many hereby are hindred from joyning to churches : others hardned in errour and sin ; yea , many by this occasion are become libertines , blasphemers , atheists , and what not ? query is , how far it is the duty of churches , publickly to appear in vindicating the great name of god , and wiping off that scandal and reproach which lies upon the truth & them too . exo. 32. 32. josh. 7. 9. & psa. 122. 9. & 137. 5 , 6. numb. 25. 13. joh. 2. 17. neh. 2. 3. prov. 22. 1. quest . xxii . that some brethren at this time not holding forth a faithfull testimony , against the corruptions crept into the churches , and shewing the churches their evill and sin : so far as their light and duty is : whether this be not one great cause , that the abuses and corruptions now in churches are not reformed ? further the query is , in what souldanger that member is , who hath made a solemn covenant before the lord with his brethren to practise all known gospel order , christian 〈◊〉 & duties , both to the church and every individuall member , shall notwithstanding ( contrary to the light of his own conscience ) break that covenant so solemnly made in the principall part of it . prov. 14. 25. ezek. 2. 7. isa. 58. 1. jer. 23. 22. ephe. 17. 15 , 16 , 17 , 18. rom. 1. 31. psal. 15. 4. rom. 21. 27. and 22. 15. 1 joh. 3. 20. ruth . 3. 18. isa. 30. 9. and 63. 8. quest . xxiii . our last query shall be ; first , whether there be not good ground to think , when the lord shall bring forth his judgements against the nations of the world , he will begin at his own house ; jer. 25. 18. 29. eze. 9. 6. amo. 3. 2. 1 pet. 4. 17. secondly , whether the lords controversie at this time against churches , be not their neglect of judgement ? isa. 59. 4. 9. 14 , 15. thirdly , whether there be any way ( following the word of god ) for churches to escape publique judgments , than to purge out unclean persons and things ? josh. 7. 13. 26. 2 sam. 21. 14. rev. 2. 5. 16. j●●. 1. 15. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a43196e-550 * whereas mr. william bridge , preaching lately at the charterhouse , may 23. 1658. told his hearers , that there is now a generation work , a generation truth , and generation sins . whether it be not the duty of all pastors and teachers , clearly to declare unto their people , when the proper work , truth & sins are of this generation . psal. 40. 10. jer. 23. 28. rom. 1. 18. toleration not to be abused by the independents by a lover of truth and peace. fullwood, francis, d. 1693. 1672 approx. 39 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 16 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a40722 wing f2518 estc r35474 15342574 ocm 15342574 103428 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a40722) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 103428) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1188:45) toleration not to be abused by the independents by a lover of truth and peace. fullwood, francis, d. 1693. [2], 31 p. printed for john martyn and are to be sold by abisha brocas bookseller in exeter, london : 1672. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -church of england. dissenters, religious -england. schism. 2007-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-01 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-02 john pas sampled and proofread 2008-02 john pas text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion toleration not to be abused by the independents . by a lover of truth and peace . london , printed for john martyn , and are to be sold by abisha brocas , bookseller in exeter , 1672. toleration not to be abused by the independents . the following discourse shall consist of four particulars . first , the lawfulness of communicating with our churches by the confessions and arguments of the congregational divines . 2. the same proved by demonstrating the apostolical churches more vitiated than ours , from whom a separation is made by the independents ; and yet a separation from those primitive churches , utterly discountenanced by the apostles . 3. the same proposition proved by demonstrating that we have not given them the like , or any just cause , as the church of rome gave them and us . which is the first particular to be proved . secondly , i shall shew the sinfulness of erecting altar against altar , of gathering churches out of churches . thirdly , that the independents are averse in their principles to toleration as well as the presbyterians , and so equally obliged not to abuse the present gracious indulgence . fourthly , i shall shew , that by his majesties late declaration the church of england is still established as the basis , and the bare suspension of the poenal laws , doth indeed take off the obligation , upon the account of wrath , that lay before upon dissenters ; but does not cancel the obligation of conscience , by which the independents , and all indulged parties , are still to avoid all causless and groundless separations from this best of reformed churches . first , the lawfulness of communicating with our churches , by the arguments and concessions even of the independents themselves . our parochial churches are owned to have the essentials of true churches by all sober congregational men : ( for there is the pure word of god preached , the true sacraments administred , and an implicite covenant between pastor and people in joyning together . ) all that is pleaded is corruption and defect in the outward exercise and administration of church order , and discipline . now that it is lawful ( supposing , but not granting this bar lies against the church of england ) to joyn with churches so defective and corrupt , is not only acknowledged , but fully proved by reverend mr. norton , of the congregational way in his answer to apolsius ( as dr. stilling fleet in his irenicum quotes it to the present purpose ) which i desire the brethren to consider , whom it chiefly concerns , and to lay seriously to their hearts : and , without a reply to his arguments , they cannot justifie their separation from us . 1. a believer may lawfully joyn in communion with such a church , where he cannot enjoy all the ordinancies of god , as in the jewish church , in our saviour's time , which refused the gospel of christ , and the baptisme of john , and yet our saviour commands us to hear the scribes and pharisees ( sitting in moses's chair ; ) which hearing implies conjunctionem ecclesiae judaicae , a joyning with the jewish church . so with churches rejecting an article of faith ; as the church of corinth , the doctrine of the resurrection ; the churches of galatia rejecting the doctrine of justification by faith : yet the apostle no where requires , on that account , a separation from them . 2. a believer may lawfully joyn in communion with such a church , in which some corruption is tolerated in the worship of god , without reformation ; as the offering upon high places , from solomon to hezekiah , in the church of judah ; the observation of circumcision and the law ceremonial in the churches of galatia . 3. a believer may lawfully joyn himself in communion with such a church , in which such are admitted to sacraments who give no evident signs of grace , but seem to be lovers of the world ; this he proves , because it is every mans duty to examine himself , and anothers sin hurts not me , and so is no argument against my duty . and besides , by mens coming unworthily , non polluitur communio , licet minuitur consolatio , the communion is not defiled , though the comfort of it be diminished : this he proves also from the church of corinth , amongst whom were many scandalous that had not repented , 2 cor. 12. 20 , &c. and in the church of the jews , which lay under great corruptions when christ and his apostles communicated with it . 4. although a believer joyns with such a church , he is not therefore bound with the guilt , nor defiled with the pollutions of others that communicate . it is his duty incumbent , and in doing his duty , he contracts no guilt upon himself . 5. a believer which hath joyned himself to such a church is not bound to withdraw and seperate under pain of guilt if he does it not : for to be lawful to joyn , and unlawful to continue the communion implies a contradiction ; for the first speaks it to be a church , and the second to be no church ; and so it is not lawful to seperate from a church true , as to essentials ( and such the independents own in their apologetical narration , our parochial churches ) though guilty of corruptions ; for the ground of communicating is its being a church , not a corrupt or defective church . and that men are not guilty by partaking with those that are guilty of corruptions in a church , appears from the church of the jews in the case of ely's sons , and the christian churches of asia and corinth ; where we read of many corruptions by s. paul reproved , but no mandate to separate , which had certainly by the holy ghost been given , and s. paul would not have omitted , had it been a sin to communicate while those corruptions were in the churches of asia and corinth . thus far their own reverend norton . now i desire these congregational leaders , who gather churches out of our churches , to reply to this learned divine of their own perswasion , or to consider what answer is to be given to the searcher of all hearts , for resisting that light of conviction that shines in upon their consciences . again , not granting but supposing only ; that in this church from which these separate , church-discipline were neglected , worship defiled , manners corrupted , or tyranny exercised : suppose we grant all this , which we need not , this will not justifie a separation from the church of england . my reason is , because there were greater corruptions in doctrine , discipline , and worship ( and no separations countenanced by the apostles ) in the first apostolical christian churches , then in ours , or any other reformed churches , from whom a separation is made in these times . as for instance ; to begin with doctrine ; in what church of ours is the resurrection of the dead denyed , an article of that importance that all our christianity , in effect , depends upon it ? it was denyed by many in the church of corinth . in what churches of ours is the doctrine of justification by the law , or any doctrine so destructive of the merit of christ , generally maintained , as in the galatian churches ? again , for worship ; do ours partake of the lord's table and the table of devils , as among the corinthians ? are our ecclesiastical assemblies so confused , that whosoever comes in must presently take us for mad ? do ours come to the communion drunk , as at corinth ? then for manners , and life ; we acknowledge our selves heynous offendors ( which , i suppose , those that call themselves the saints , and separate from us publicans ) do ( unless frantick ) confess true of themselves : but what then ? have we worse than incest , fornication , covetousness , malice , contentions unrepented of , as is the church of corinth ? or , biting and devouring one another , permitters of idolaters , boasters of gifts , as in the church of galatia ? as touching neglect of discipline ; first in the apostles own company , the ministers that should exercise discipline , they all sought there own , and none the things of j●sus christ ; and the grossest vices winked 〈…〉 mented , as we saw before in the church of corinth ; and should have been so still , had not the apostle been living , and exciting them to their duty . lastly , concerning tyranny ; ye see what oppression the false apostles used , 2 cor. 11. 20. ye suffer , saith the apostle , if a man take of you , if a man bring you into bondage , if a man devour you , if a man exalt himself , &c. by which words he toucheth the tyranny , though out of malice against the apostle , willingly submitted to , by the church of corinth : and we know that dyotrephes exercised his government with such insolency , that he cast out whom he would , admitted whom he would , opposed s. john himself ; yet no news of separation . now let these men consider , that separate from us , the apostolical church was a virgin newly espoused to christ , in the midst of the heathen , under the rod of persecution , the great apostle then living , and yet vitiated more then the churches that these depart from ; and yet the then separatists branded with the characters of schisme and sedition by the blessed apostles . and here i desire the men of this way seriously to consider , that separation being discountenanced , from churches more vitiated than ours , by the holy apostles ; how these men , owning our parochial churches true as to essentials , can ever justifie their separation from us ? it would certainly be duly weighed by such as desire to appear tender consciences , and so capable of a right in the present gracious indulgence . that they do so acknowledge our parochial churches , their apologetical narration declares sufficiently in these following words ; we have alwaies profest ( and that in these times , wherein the churches of england were most , either actually overspread with defilements , or in the greatest danger thereof ) that we both did , and would hold communion with them , as true churches of christ ; and that our parochial churches were the very body of christ : which is in effect to approve and forsake at the same time , and gives occasion , too great , of applying a sentence in s. austin against parmenian ( lib. 1. cap. 8. against these dissenters : ) et adversum nos loquuntur , & nobiscum loquuntur , & cum eos obmutescere compellat veritas , silere non permittit iniquitas : they speak against us , and they speak for us ; and when truth constrains them silence , their iniquity will not let them hold their peace . there are three things that i would humbly offer to all sober men of the congregational perswasion ; and i beseech them to consider them seriously , as from one that equally wisheth their salvation with his own . 1. that they would cautiously distinguish between corruptions in doctrine , and corruptions in the practice of a church . 2. that they would conscientiously distinguish between corruptions , whether in doctrine or practice , profest and avowed by a church , and required as the absolute conditions of communion from all its members ; and corruptions only crept in and meerly tolerated in a church , and not any way required as the conditions of 3. to distinguish carefully between non-communicating as to the abuses of a church , and a positive and total separation from a 〈◊〉 as it is a church . these three ( the second 〈…〉 duly weighed and considered , would 〈…〉 a period to their separation 〈…〉 of england ; or tend at least to 〈…〉 ening of the breach too sadly occasioned , for want of a due reflection upon the premisses aforesaid . again , we of the church of england have not given them the like , or any just cause of separating , as the church of rome gave them and us : for where do we urge any doctrines as articles of faith , which we offer not to a tryal by scripture , and the four first general councils , which all christians reverence ( and were anciently honoured next to the four gospels : ) and if the church should teach any other propositions , she protests against their being articles of faith and of necessity to salvation , and for this reason imposeth not her ●●●ix , articles , as articles of faith , but of peace and communion : nor does the church of england censure other churches for their different confessions , but allows them the liberty she her self takes , to establish more or less conditions of communion , as the governours of the church shall deem most expedient for vnity and peace . she only requires of such as are admitted to any office or employment in the church , to subscribe to her articles as certain theological verityes not repugnant to god's word , particularly culled out and selected to be taught , and maintained within her communion , as highly conducive to the preservation of truth , and prevention of schisme . and for this reason she passes no other censure upon the impugners of her articles , then against the impugners of her government , liturgy , and rites ; because all intended by her for the same end , the avoiding of all disorders , and confusions . but as for the absolute articles of the church of england , they were not of her own inventing , but such as she found established in the best ages of the church , nearest the primitive and apostolical simplicity : here she fixeth the bounds of her faith , to prevent the danger of endless additions , and innovations . and because in smaller matters somewhat may escape the greatest caution and prudence , she hath reserved just power to her self to reform what is really amiss , and finds so abused , that the use of them cannot stand with piety and holiness ; allowing the same liberty to all her sister churches , and all church governours within the sphere of their respective jurisdictions . this is the true state of the reformation of this church , as hath been apparently evidenced by her regular sons against all opposers . now let the independents consider , whether this be not ( though a brief ) yet a true account of the moderation and prudence of this church ; and then let them reflect at the same time upon the second especially , of the three aforesaid propositions : and upon the whole examine their tender consciences , whether it does not justifie our separation from the romanists , and at the same time prove them guilty by departing from us . we both agree , that where any church is guilty of corruptions in doctrine and practice , which it owns and requires as absolute conditions of her communion , there to separate is no schisme , but lawful and convenient . let them make the church of england appear thus guilty they are acquitted : if they cannot prove it as they have not done as yet ( and doubtless they have zeal enough to set them forward , if it could be demonstrated ) what hinders their return to the church of england , unless the conscience , which they call tender , be sullen and obstinate ? not to prove any thing that justifies a separation against the church which they forsake , and yet continue to keep up their altars against it , is not so much allyed to tenderness of conscience , as to hardness of heart , uncapable of being reclaimed by the greatest and most generous condescensions in the world. so much of the first particular , the lawfulness of communicating with our parochial churches , from the arguments and concessions of the independents themselves ; from the primitive apostolical churches more vitiated than ours , and yet all manner of separation discountenanced by the apostles , and we not having given the independents any just cause as the church of rome gave them and us . that is the first proposition i engaged to defend , the lawfulness of communicating with our churches . secondly , i am to shew the sinfulness and danger of erecting altar against altar , and gathering churches out of our churches : the sin is the sin of schisme , severely branded by ancient fathers and orthodox councils ( as well as in the apostolical writings ) as the heighth of pride and wickedness . that the independents are guilty of this sin is clearly deducible from what i have said already ; from their own arguments , and concessions ; from the instances of the apostolical and primitive churches , more vitiated than ours , yet separation discountenanced by the apostles ; and by a comparison between our withdrawing from rome , and their separation from us . these things already proved , speaks them causlesly to separate from us ; and that causless separation speaks them schismaticks . they themselves allow our parochial churches true , as to essentials ; and , what if we suppose spots and pollutions , as to the outward administration of order and discipline ; this , if we should grant them , onely infers a lawful desire and endeavour of reformation , but it warrants no schismatical separation ; for no corruptions in a church can give occasion , or allowance of going out of it , but such as strike at the foundation of christian doctrine and worship ; which , setting calumny and railing aside ( which we are not obliged to take for reason and argument ) they never yet attempted to prove against the church of england , so far they are inexcusable before god , and so far from appearing men of tender consciences to the world. where are those corruptions in doctrine or practice , which the church of england doth impose upon her members , as the absolute conditions of her communion . let them lay aside wrath and darkness , and give us a pregnant demonstration ; or like men of candour and ingenuity plead guilty , and return . let them in short prove these two things : 1. that our episcopal ordination and jurisdiction , our mixt communion , our rites of order imposed , not out of any necessity , but vniformity and peace , and some other things by them inveighed against , to be indeed superstitious , and ( as they call them ) . antichristian abominations . when that difficult task is over ( if it can be ever accomplished ) let them prove that we urge disputable things , or known errours with such severity , as the church of rome does purgatory , indulgences , supererogation , and other notorious palbable errours ; for which , justly condemned by the reformed churches . the very cock of the congregation is here nonplust ( the most daring of all their vndertakers ) unless you will take noise , and clamour , and confidence for demonstrations . thirdly , the independents are equally enemies to toleration with the presbyterians ; and from the same very principles , and by consequence equally obliged not to use ( however not to abuse ) the gracious indulgence . nothing in conjunction with , or addition to , what is prescribed in the word of god ( as to worship , and government ) is to be admitted or tolerated . upon this principle the independents in particular ( as well as non-conformists in general , ) for so their greatest and most forward champion tells us , they do , and will adhere to , and stand upon as to the differences , between them and us . the plain meaning of which , applyed to the church of england , is briefly this , that the independent way of worship , and government , is only prescribed in the word of god ; and ours not , but repugnant : and by this principle they exclude as well their brethren that lent them the principle , as well as the inferiour sectarists , and are at defiance with them , as well as the church of england ; for independency being only prescribed in the word by this principle . if they will adhere to it , no other way can be indulged or admitted . with these men ( as well as the disciplinarians ) there is but one only true way of worship and government prescribed in the word . nothing , secondly , that is unlawful may be tolerated by the civil magistrate ; and , nothing is lawful but what is prescribed in the word ( and you may be confident , that is the independent way of worship and government . ) these three things resolved , whence should toleration proceed , or an indulgence be expected from the independents to differing perswasions , unless he playes fast and loose , and as he pleaseth , owns and renounceth the jus divinum of independency in the same oracles . every sect ( the independent especially ) allows no worship , but their own way established in the word . this is not only pleaded against the church of england , but every faction bandyes against every faction for the divine right . the presbyterian discipline is the only scepter of jesvs christ for all churches government to the end of the world : he can neither indulge himself , nor accept an indulgence where other parties are not excluded . the independent allows only his own way of worship , and excludes all dissenters from worshipping god aright ; and from the beauty and purity of gospel ordinances ; which is a principle sir john presbyter lent him : and how can an indulgence hence proceed ? by this principle the presbyterian first assaulted the church of england . by the same principle the congregational hector takes sir john to task , and beats him out of the field : by the same the anabaptist attempted the independent ; and all the under sects the anabaptists : and so if they had crumbled into a thousand sub-divisions , still as every sect gathers strength enough , he persecutes all opposers . and , how should the independent be more merciful than the presbyterian , or any other sect , whose enmity to toleration doth equally arise from the same common principle of the divine right , only of their own way of worship and government , from which all the sects are excluded , as well as the church of england ? there is one only way of worshipping god aright , and that way is the independent way of worship . where is toleration then ? it is excluded . by what law ? by divine right : and so every plant that my father hath not planted must be rooted out ; and so only independency is to be tolerated , unless kings and princes who rule for god , may indulge men in an open violation of the law of god ? and if you look a little backwards , it may admit a dispute , whether the scepter of jesus christ were more an iron rod under the kirk , or the tender hearted tryers ? it may indeed sometimes consist with carnal prudence ( supposing the independents to have power in their hands ) to connive at , and indulge the lesser factions , the better to hold out the flag of defiance against the royalists , and the presbyterians their most considerable competitors . or they may ( as the vsurpers tender-conscien'd army once did ) offer the taking away even the poenal laws from the very papists , to collogue with forraign princes , and so have the greater security in their villanous designs against the king , and the church ; but this is a state juggle for the advancement of the good old cause : but then as soon as the fear is over from abroad , then they spared nothing that sacriledge could devour . and now , can any man , that looks back upon independent mercy and forbearance , believe that men of such principles and practices ( who are now pleased that episcopacy is established , and poenal laws removed from papists , only because indulged themselves ) would tolerate either popery or episcopacy if they had power in their hands , and not rather lord it with the insolence of vsurpers ? credat judaeus apella , non ego . so that as a late treatise demonstrates , the presbyterian hath no cause of joy , because others are indulged as well as himself ; whereas his doctors , elders , and deacons are the perpetual scepter of christ to the end of the world for all churches government ; and therefore , down with the colours of the dragon ; advance the standard of christ . the independents have no cause of joy , because the church of england , and the presbyterian limb too , of the antichristian leviathan , are included , as well as the rest of the parties among us : his way being only laid down in the word , and all others repugnant to the holy scriptures . yet they take the advantage , both out of a hatred to a third party , the church of england , and the next thing is to fight one with another for the government : and then the only scepter of christ is the conquerours worship ; the longest sword is the divine right ; the pike and gun declare the cause of god ; and infallible artillery decides all the controversies relating to the gospel truth . and thus the presbyterian ( who thought to have erected his discipline upon the sad eclipse of the church of england ) was powerfully baffled and confuted , by such arguments as the independent man of war carryed in his snapsack . do not the independents , when most cool and moderate , look upon all other churches and people , as all revolters from the purity and beauty of gospel-ordinances , introducers of will-worship and superstition , instead of disciples of the lord jesvs ; not allowing any dissenters the least share or degree of wisdom , or godliness ? and men of such principles of this forehead and complexion , must needs carry tender bowels to men of differing perswasions . certainly , unless where the rules and maximes of carnal policy interpose and plead for mercy to dissenters , their clemency is the same with the presbyterian , who first lent him the principle , of not admitting any thing not expresly delivered in the sacred scriptures : by which principle they are engaged in a war with one another , as well as against their common antagonists . so that the tables are now turned . it is not the question , whether all partyes may be tolerated ; but , whether independents only : for there is but one true way of worship , and that is theirs . theirs only hath the divinum jus , and princes may not indulge men in an open violation of scripture precepts , and directions . and so every sect is engaged to root out all the rest , as enemies to the scepter of the lord jesvs . fourthly , the execution of the poenal laws being suspended , by the late declaration in favour of dissenters , does only take off the obligation , upon the account of wrath , to obedience ; but the conscience is still obliged , to avoid all causless and groundless separations from our churches . this will be manifest enough to any one that seriously reads the declaration it self , and a late treatise , toleration not to be abused , which will extend as well to the independents as the presbyterians , whose aversion to toleration is built upon the same common principle , the divine right of their one onely way of worship and government , in the sacred oracles ; and so i refer them to that part of the discourse before mentioned , that they are obliged ( as before the declaration ) to avoid all groundless separations . for the church of england is , as before , established as the basis , and so the obligation of conscience still obligatory upon all the indulged parties to avoid schismes , and all causless departure from us . the obligation upon the account of wrath is removed indeed ; but if they would appear tender consciences to the world , the king's suspension of the punishment should make them the more obedient for conscience sake ; and a gracious indulgence rather abate , than heighten their opposition against the church of england , still established . i shall now conclude all , by desiring them to consider , what they themselves acknowledge in the declaration of the faith and order of the congregational churches , in chap. 26. of the church , &c. the purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error . and in their institution of churches ; persons that are joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church , to which they are so joyned . to these two let them add the four particulars in this discourse mentioned : and upon the result of all consider , whether ambition and pride , rather then a conscientious tenderness keep not up their departure from , and opposition to the church of england . i am not as this publican , come not near me , for i am holier then thou . an over-valluing of our own worth , and a pharisaical contempt of others , is the usual rise of schisme ; for only by pride cometh contention ; so the best of kings and preachers . thus the valentinians looked on themselves as the only spiritual men. the pharisees the only separati , separate persons . the sadducees , justi , the only righteous . the novatians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the only puritans : and none men of knowledge but the gnosticks , and the acute tertullian , when montanist . all others were psysici , and he was come to his nos spirituales . and if ( out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh ) spiritual pride is the original of your schisme . for you only are god's israel , his elect and precious ones . you only have communion with god in pure ordinance ▪ all the world faln short of god's truth , but your selves : and none is orthodox out of the pale of your own church . not only pap●sts , prelatists and arminians , but even your dear brethren , the presbyterians , are limbs of the antichristian leviathan . all revolted from the lord jesus , and to be treated as members of the whore , whom the saints hate , and shall make desolate and naked , eat her flesh , and drink her bloud . this is the canting dialect of your independent leaders . to conclude . if it be not ambition , but conscience ; let it so appear by your charity to dissenters , by a serious and impartial enquiry into the grounds upon which you separate from us , without prejudice or passion ; and do not so far idolize a sect , or an opinion , as to prefer it before the peace and settlement of a church , and nation . finis . a brief enquiry into the true nature of schism: or a persuasive to christian love and charity. humbly submitted to better judgments; by m.h. licensed jan. 8. 1689/90 henry, matthew, 1662-1714. 1690 approx. 40 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a43343 wing h1474 estc r216726 99828448 99828448 32875 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a43343) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 32875) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1866:13) a brief enquiry into the true nature of schism: or a persuasive to christian love and charity. humbly submitted to better judgments; by m.h. licensed jan. 8. 1689/90 henry, matthew, 1662-1714. [2], 34 p. printed for tho. parkhurst, at the bible and three crowns, in cheapside, near mercers chapel, london : 1690. m. h. = matthew henry. reproduction of the original in the christ college library, oxford. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng schism -early works to 1800. 2003-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-03 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-03 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a brief enquiry into the true nature of schism : or a persuasive to christian love and charity . humbly submitted to better judgments ; by m. h. psalm 120. l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i peace . licensed jan. 8. 1689 / 90. london , printed for tho. parkhurst , at the bible and three crowns , in cheapside , near mercers chapel . 1690. concerning schism . there hath scarce been any one thing that hath been bandi'd to and fro in the christian world with more heat and noise among the several dividing parties than the charge of schism . this hath involv'd the disputing part of the church in the most violent engagements above 1200 years . schism is so deform'd a brat , that no body hath been willing to own it ; a crime so very black , that each party hath been studiously industrious to clear it self from the charge . to this indictment all have pleaded not guilty , and we find none that have justified . but here 's the misery , such notions of it have been entertain'd , that it hath been almost impossible to deny , without recriminating . and perhaps the most guilty have been most hot in charging others . athaliah the greatest traitor is most loud in crying , treason , treason . we are all agreed that schism is an arch-rebel in christ's kingdom , but in sending out the hue and cry after it , the difficulty is , how to describe it ; several attempts have been made ; would it be in vain to try one more ? waveing all enquiries into the several definitions and descriptions which have been given of it , let us have recourse to the law and to the testimony , for whosoever speak in the things of god ( as they certainly do who speak of sin and duty ) if they speak not according to that rule , it is because there is no light in them . therefore i only premise this one postulatum , that nothing is to be accounted sin , but that which is made so by the word of god : tekel is to be written upon nothing but that which hath been carefully weigh'd in the balances of the sanctuary . in our enquiry what is sin , let these books be open'd which must be open'd at the great day . if sinners must be judg'd by those books shortly , let sin be judg'd by them now , and let not any man or company of men in the world assume a power to declare that to be sin which the sovereign rector of the world hath not declared to be so lest in so doing they be found stepping into the throne of god who is a jealous god , and will not give this branch of his glory to another . let us therefore see what the scripture saith concerning schism , not concerning the evil of it , we are all convinced of that , but concerning the nature and formalis ratio of it . the old testament will not help us so much in this enquiry as the new , for as to the binding of the jews to worship only in one place , at jerusalem , and to offer only upon that altar , it was a precept purely ceremonial , and to us christians is vacated by that gospel rule which wills us to pray every where , and their synagogues then ( not their temple ) were the patterns of christian assemblies . only one scripture occurs in the old testament , which perhaps will help-to rectify some mistake about schism . it is the instance of eldad and medad who prophesi'd in the camp , numb . 11. 26 , &c. the case in short is this : eldad and medad were persons upon whom the spirit rested , i. e. who were by the extraordinary working of the spirit endued with gifts equal to the rest of the seventy elders , and were written , i. e. had a call to the work , but they went not out unto the tabernacle as the rest did , though god himself had appointed that they should , v. 16. and they prophesi'd in the camp , i. e. exercis'd their gifts in private among their neighbours , in some common tent. upon what inducements they did this , doth not appear , but it is evident that it was their weakness and infirmity thus to separate from the rest of their brethren . if any think they prophesied by a necessitating , and irresistible impulse , they may remember , that the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets , 1 cor. 14. 32. now if some of the schismaticating doctors that the church hath known had but had the censuring of eldad and medad we should soon have had a judgment given against them much more severe than would have been awarded to him that gather'd sticks on the sabbath day . and 't is confessed , all the circumstances consider'd it looks like a very great irregularity , especially as an infringement of the authority of moses , which they that prophesi'd in the tabernacle under his presidency manifestly own'd and submitted to . well , an information was presently brought in against them , v. 27. eldad and medad prophesie in the camp , that is , to speak in the invidious language of the times there 's a conventicle at such a place , and eldad and medad are holding forth at it . joshua in his zeal for that which he fancy'd to be the churches unity , and out of a concern for the authority of moses brings in a bill to silence them , for as hot as he was he would not have them fin'd and laid in the jail for this disorder neither ; only , my lord moses , forbid them ; not , compel them to come to the tabernacle , if they be not satisfi'd to come , only for the future prohibit their schismatical preaching in the camp. this seem'd a very good motion . but hold joshua , thou knowest not what manner of spirit thou art of . discerning moses sees him acted by a spirit of envy , and doth not only deny , but severely reprove the motion , v. 29. enviest thou for my sake ? would god that all the lords people were prophets , provided the lord will but put his spirit upon them . he is so far from looking upon it as schism , that he doth not only tolerate but encourage it . and o that all those who sit in moses chair , were but cloth'd with this spirit of moses . this instance is full to shew that all is not schism which even wise and good men are apt to think is so . but our special enquiry must be in the new testament , and forasmuch as words are the significations of things let us see what the scripture means by this word , schism . the criticks observe , that the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used 8 times in the new testament . 1. in a literal sense , for a rent in a garment , matth. 9. 16. mark 2. 21. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the rent is made worse . in the same sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is us'd , joh. 19. 24. luk. 5. 36. as also of the rending of the vail , mat. 27. 41. the cleaving of the rocks , mat. 27. 51. the breaking of the net , joh. 21. 11. the cleaving of the heavens , mar. 1. 10. but this makes little to our purpose . 2. it is us'd figuratively for a division ; and that twofold . 1. a division in apprehension ; so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is us'd , joh. 7. 43. joh. 9. 16. 10. 19. in which places it signifies the different thoughts and apprehensions that the people or their rulers had concerning christ some thinking well of him , others not . some accusing him , others excusing him . in this sense 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is us'd , acts 23. 7. for the different sentiments the people had concerning paul. now this diversity of opinion , judgment or apprehension cannot be call'd or look't upon in its self a thing criminal : inasmuch as there are many things which either because they are dark and obscure , and so not capable of demonstration , or because they are trivial and of light moment , and so not worth a demonstration , it is no matter what opinion men are of concerning them . only where the matter is weighty , and toucheth the fundamentals of christianity , there an error is criminal , and if stubbornly persisted in , heresie . but the evil of it lies not in the diversity , but in the erroneousness and danger of the opinion . i cannot believe that the greatest worshipers of the diana of their own opinions , will be so sottish as to brand those for schismaticks who in every punctilio of opinion are not exactly of the same standard with themselves . if there be any so strangely rigid , let not my soul come into their secret , for i despair to see even all the saints of a mind in every thing till they come to heaven . it doth therefore evidence too great a strangeness to the spirit of the gospel , to condemn all those who differ from us only in their apprehensions about little things . john's disciples were hugely displeas'd because christ's disciples did not fast so often as they did , and quarrel'd with christ himself about it , mat. 9. 14. and the answer of the meek and holy jesus is worthy remark , that he gives a good reason why his disciples did not fast , viz. because the bridge groom , was yet with them . and yet doth not condemn john's disciples that fasted oft , which teacheth us not to make our own opinions and practices ( like procrustes's bed ) the standard by which to measure all other , and that in such cases we are to think it sufficient only to acquit our selves , first to our own consciences , and then if need be to the world , without condemning others who think and practise otherwise in such little things , and perhaps have as much reason for their thoughts and practises as we have for our's . 2. a division in affection ; and in this sense it is us'd three times in the first epistle to the corinthians , and no where else in all the new testament . we must particularly examine each place , that thence we may be furnish't with a true notion of schism ; and in plain terms the case is whether a diversity ( or if you will call it so , a separation ) of communion be the formalis ratio of schism . 1. i find the word , and with it no doubt the thing , 1 cor. 1. 10. i beseech you brethren — that there be no divisions ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) no schisms among you ; so reads the margin of our bibles . now to find out what this schism is , let us enquire , 1. into the exegetical exhortations that accompany it . ( 1. ) that ye all speak the same thing ; viz. in the fundamental doctrines of christianity , for in little things it can never be made a duty to be of the same opinion , since it is morally impossible ; but ( as estius seems to understand it ) not to break christian charity in your disputes about them . observe , he doth not oblige us to think the same thing , but though your thoughts be divers , yet speak the same thing ; i. e. in your preaching and converse , speak of those things only wherein you are agreed , and for those things wherein you differ , do not fall out and fight about them , but love one another notwithstanding . ( 2. ) that ye be perfectly join'd together in the same mind and in the same judgment . which must be understood of a serious endeavour after it , for otherwise a perfect conjunction must be reserv'd for a world of everlasting perfection . but the meaning of the exhortation seems to be that all their little heats and animosities should be swallow'd up in an unanimous zeal for the great gospel truths wherein they were all agreed . 2. we must enquire into the corinthians miscarriage which occasion'd this caution , which you have , v. 11 , 12. there were contentions among them , v. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that schisms and contentions are one and the same thing , and t is worth nothing that clemens romanus in that famous epistle of his to the corinthians , still calls schisms , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , contentions . now the contention was about their ministers ; i am of paul , saith one , i am of apollos , saith another , &c. now he that was of apollos was as much a schismatick as he that was of paul , because they quarrel'd and fell out about so small and indifferent a matter . observe , it was not so much being of paul , and being of apollos that made the schism , for paul and apollos and cephas were all their's , chap. 3. 22. but saying , i am of paul , that is , crying him up as the only man for them , so as to despise others . if one went to hear paul , and another went to hear apollos , that did not make a schism , no nor if one communicated with paul , and another with apollos , for why might not each go where he could be most edify'd ? but the schism was , that they sacrific'd christian love and charity to this difference of apprehension . this is evident in that those who said , i am of christ , so as to despise and censure , and quarrel with them that said , i am of paul &c. are reproved equally with the rest . now the way of curing this schism was not to silence apollos and cephas , that whether they would or no they might all be of paul ; nay it is well worth the observing , that in the same epistle we find paul very earnest with apollos to go to corinth 16. 12. as touching apollos , i greatly desir'd him to come to you . which he would never have done if he had not prefer'd the common interest of soul's salvation before his own credit . but the way to cure this was to convince them of the folly of their quarrels , how senseless and irrational they were , and to perswade them to lay aside their enmities and heart-burnings , and to love one another , and to walk hand in hand in the same way , though they traced different paths , which they might well do when the paths lay so very near together . by this instance it appears that narrow-spiritedness which confines religion and the church to our way and party , whatever it is , to the condemning of others that differ from us in little things is the great schismaticating principle which hath been so much the bane of the christian church , hinc illae-lachrymae . 2. we find the word us'd , 1 cor. 11. 18. i hear there be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , divisions among you . it is undeniably evident that it cannot be meant of any breach of communion , for it is said expresly , v. 20. that they came together into one place , and that into the church too , i. e. the place of meeting . but the schisms were quarrels and contentions about some little things relating to the circumstances of publick worship , and the quarrel seems to have been about the time of beginning their worship , especially when they were to joyn in the lords supper , or their love-feasts , it see as they did not come exactly at the time , therefore the apostle bids them tarry one for another , v. 33. those that came early quarrel'd with those that came late , for coming no sooner , and those that came late quarrel'd with the other , for beginning before they came . some quarrels of this kind were the schisms here spoken of . 3. the word is us'd , 1 cor. 12. 25. that there be no schism in the body . the apostle is there carrying on a metaphor betwixt the natural body , and the church , and this clause clearly relates to the natural body , for he doth not come to the reddition of the comparison till v. 27. now what he means by the schism in the body is plain from the antithesis in the following words — but that the members should have the same care one for another , so that when the members care not one for another , when the eye saith to the hand , i have no need of thee , v. 21. when there is not a sympathy and fellow-feeling among christians v. 26. here 's schism . that 's schism which breaks or slackens the bond by which the members are knit together . now that bond is not an act of uniformity in point of communion in the same modes and ceremonies , but true love and charity , in point of affection , 't is charity that is the bond of perfectness , col. 3. 14. 't is the unity of the spirit that is the bond of peace , eph. 4. 3. and schism is that which breaks this bond. now from all this laid together , i draw out this description of schism , which according to my present apprehensions is the true scripture notion of it . schism is an uncharitable distance , division , or alienation of affections among those who are called christians , and agree in the fundamentals of religion , occasion'd by their different apprehensions about little things . this is the schism which the scripture makes to be a sin , and by scripture rules it must be judged . schism ( as indeed the root of all other sin ) we see lies in the heart and affections : but the tree is known by his fruits ; this bitter root bears gall and wormwood : let us therefore take a short view of those practices , which according to this description are schismatical practices . 1. judging , censuring , and condemning those that differ from us in little things is a schismatical practice , as it evidenceth a great alienation , if not enmity of the affections . charity thinketh no evil , 1 cor. 13. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth not reason evil , doth not study to make sins , but cover them ; and if they be made , yet not to make the worst of them ; it puts the best construction upon words and actions . now to pass a censorious judgment upon others , and to put the worst construction upon what they say and do , is certainly uncharitable , that is , schismatical . it is a practice often condemn'd in holy writ , mat. 7. 1. judge not , that ye be not judged : 't is construed a judging of the law , jam. 4. 11 , 12. 't is especially condemn'd with reference to the present case , of different apprehensions about little things , in that famous scripture , rom. 14. 4 , 5 , &c. a scripture , which if well studi'd and liv'd up to , would heal us all . judging the heart , is in my eye , one of the most uncharitable species of judging . censuring the principles and ends of an action , which are secret : charging those that differ from us with hypocrisie , which is a heart-sin . if the shews be good , and the outside justifiable , when we conclude hypocrisie is in the heart , we step into the throne of god. 2. laying a greater stress upon small matters of difference than they will bear , and widening the breach about them . as on the one hand , to censure all prayers by a form , or by this form in particular , assuperstition , will-worship , formality , and the like : on the other hand , to censure all extempore praying as babbling , caning , froth and noise , as if god had not accepted his own people in the one as well as in the other . the fastening of a censure , and passing of a judgment upon a whole party and way , if it be not very clear and well-grounded indeed , will be likely to split us upon the rock of schism and uncharitableness . 3. concluding hardly as to the spiritual state and condition of those that differ from us , excluding them out of the church , and from salvation , because they are not just of our mind in every punctilio . witness that notion which excludes out of the church , & consequently out of heaven all those ( how orthodox and serious soever they are otherwise ) who are not in prelatical communion ; if no diocesan bishops , then no ministers , no sacraments , no church , no salvation . which is certainly the most schismatical notion that ever was broach'd in the christian world . 4. reproaching , reviling , and railing at those who differ from us in little things , is another schismatical practice : fastning such nick-names upon them , and loading them with such reproaches as carry in them all the odium that malice can infuse into them ; dressing them up in bears-skins and then baiting them , doing what we can by calumnies , and misrepresentations to alienate the affections of others from them . 5. making , consenting to , approving or executing of penal laws against those who differ from us in little things , to punish them for such difference in their persons , estates or liberties is another uncharitable or schismatical practice . this is contention with a witness — which aims at no less than the ruin of the person contended with in the dearest of his secular interests , to beat out his brains , because his head is not exactly of our size . 6. separation from communion with those that we have joyn'd our selves to , without cause ; give me leave to call it separation for separation sake , without any regard had to any thing amiss in the church we separate from , or any thing better in that we joyn our selves to , this is an evidence of an uncharitable alienation of affection , and is consequently schismatical . when we quite cast off communion with our brethren , out of ambition , animosity ot their persons , affectation of novelty and singularity , or the like . this was manifestly the case of the donatists , the infamous schismaticks of the primitive church . their principles were , that the church of christ was to be found no where but in their sect , and all other churches were no churches that true baptism was not administred but among them , and a great many barbarous outrages they committed in the heat of their separation . 7. an affected strangeness or distance in communion or conversation from those who thus differ from us upon the account of such difference , avoiding converse and familiarity with them , carrying it strangely towards them , only because they do not wear the dividing name of our party . this evidenceth an uncharitable alienation of affection prevailing in the heart , and is consequently schismatical . many such like practices might easily be mention'd , if it were needful — but they are obvious enough , especially if we look into the laws of charity set down , 1 cor. 13. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. and remember that all transgression of those laws is uncharitableness , and when that is found in the things of religion , it is schism . the corollary from the whole is this , that whoever they be that allow themselves in these or the like practices and affections towards their brethren that differ from them in little things , whether they be episcopal , presbyterian , independent or by what name or title soever they are self-dignify'd and distinguish't , they are so far schismatical , inasmuch as they break the great law of christian charity . let us try what further inference may be drawn from this scripture notion of schism . 1. if this be schism , then it is not within the line of any humane power to make that separation to be schismatical which was not so in itself . by the description given of schism it doth appear to be a thing , malum in se , which was not so before , an attempt of that kind would sink with its own weight . and therefore it is well worthy observation , that when the parliament made a law against conventicles , ( which are the great schismatical eye-sores ) they call'd it an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles , knowing it to be within their line to declare a thing to be sedition , but not schismatical conventicles , for that was a thing in which they could not concern themselves . 2. if this be schism then the guilt of it is to be look't for in particular persons , and is not to be charg'd by whole sale upon parties of any denomination whatsoever , as among us at this day , in the prelatical party there are some schismatical , and others not , and the same is to be said of the separating party , nay who is there that can say , i have made my heart clean , i am pure from this sin . have we not all need to pray , from envy , hatred and malice , and all uncharitableness ( which are the ingredients of schism ) good lord deliver us , both from the guilt , and from the power of it ? it is not so much our differences themselves , as the mismanagement of our differences that is the bane of the church burning up christian love with the fire of our contentions . whence come these wars and fightings ? come they not hence , even from our lusts ? jam. 4. 1. and those that say they are perfectly free from these warfaring , schismaticating lusts must give me leave to say , i doubt they deceive themselves , and the truth is not in them . 3. if this be schism , then there may be schism , where there 's no separation of communion , that 's plain from the instance of the corinthians who came together into one place and yet are blam'd for being schismatical ; bringing people to one place will never cure a schism , till they are brought to be of one accord . you may bind the leopard and lay him down by the lamb , and yet the enmity remain as great as ever , except there be an inward change . a quarrel about little things may likewise be schismatical on one side , and yet not on 'tother ; jeremiah was a man of strife and contention , jer. 15. 10. i. e. a man striven and contended with , and yet no schismatick , though ordinarily ( as it is commonly said of domestick differences ) there 's fault more or less on both sides . 4. if this be schism then there may be separation of communion where there is no schism . for thus we all agree that there may be difference of apprehension , and yet no schism , provided it do not eat out christian love , but be manag'd amicably , as betwixt the arminians and calvinists in the church of england , and divers the like . now if this difference of apprehension relate to worship , or communion , and the modes or terms thereof , these cannot but be a strong inclination to separate in whole or in part according as the difference of apprehension is , for do what we can as long as we are rational creatures the understanding will have the directing of the will. now surely this separation , ( if we must call it so , or rather ) this variety and diversity of worship and communion may be manag'd without schism , provided christian love and charity be kept entire notwithstanding . for can any imagine that a difference of apprehension in regard of worship and discipline should be more schismatical than difference of apprehension in doctrine , since of the two doctrinal truths seem more essential to christianity . but to come a little closer . the meetings of the dissenters ( though now blessed be god permitted and allow'd by the law of the land , yet ) are commonly charg'd with being schismatical , the great out-cry is , that we leave the church and the unthinking mobile who are so well taught as to know no other churches but the publick places of worship , are easily induc'd to believe it , as if 't were schism to worship god any where else , let the worship there be what it will. those who will a low themselves the liberty of an unprejudic'd thought , cannot but see the difference so small , that as long as we believe the same christian faith , and agree in the same protestant abhorrence of papal delusions , we may easily be look't upon as one and the same church , as well as two several parish churches may , especially being united under the care and protection of one protestant king , and members of the same protestant common wealth . now 1. i do from the bottom of my soul detest and abhor all separation from the parish churches to atheism , irreligion , and sensuality , jude 19. who separate themselves , sensual — who forsake the church to go to the ale-house or tavern , or to their secular business , or to their slothfulness and laziness , to separate unto that shame , hos. 9. 10. and if this separation had been more animadverted upon than it hath been of late , probably the cure of schism would have been sooner effected thereby than by severities that have been us'd against conscientious separatists . 2. i do likewise abhor all schismatical , that is , uncharitable , proud , censorious , rigid separation , such separation as theirs who condemn the parish churches as no parts of the visible church , who rail at the ministers as babylonish , and antichristian ; this is a horrid breach of the law of christian love , and that which every good heart cannot but rise at the thoughts of . and yet i cannot but say , and am satisfy'd in it , that there may be a lawful and justifiable separation ( though i would rather call it a diversity of communion ) from the parish churches which i shall endeavour to clear in three cases . 1. if my own conscience be not satisfy'd in the lawfulness of any terms of communion impos'd , as far as i fall under that imposition , i may justify a separation from them , and a joyning with other churches where i may be freed from that imposition , provided that this be not done schismatically , i. e. with heat and bitterness , and an alienation of christian affection ; and i hope none that have the law of christ written in their hearts will say that it is impossible truly to love those with whom i am not satisfy'd to joyn in all the ordinances for the sake of some ceremonies , with which after all my study , prayer , and converse i cannot be satisfy'd so , if i be a minister , and as such oblig'd to preach the gospel , yet kept out from the publick exercise of my ministry by such terms and conditions , oaths and subscriptions as i judge sinful , in such a case surely it is lawful for me with eldad and medad to prophesy in the camp , since in my judgment the door of the tabernacle is made straiter than my master hath appointed it to be made . what should hinder but that as a minister of christ i may administer all the ordinances according to christs institution to those who are willing to joyn with me , and put themselves under my conduct ( such as it is ) in those administrations . if god have given though but one talent , it must be traded with , or else there will be an uncomfortable reckoning shortly , especially when we look abroad and consider how the apparent necessities of precious souls call for our utmost diligence in our masters work , and indeed there 's work enough for us all if god would give us hearts to be serious and unanimous in it . in this also 't is always provided , that my agency in a ministerial station be not made schismatical by my heat , passion , and bitterness , but that i live in true love and charity with those whom by reason of the impositions i cannot salvâ conscientiâ joyn with in communion . 2. though i be satisfy'd in the lawfulness of the terms of communion requir'd , and so when purer administrations are not to be had may rather than live in the total want of the ordinances comply with them , yet when i have an opportunity of enjoying those ordinances in a way which i judge more pure and scriptural , or which i think more lively and edifying , and more likely to attain the great end of all ordinances , and that contribute more to my comfort and holiness , and communion with god , in such a case i cannot see but that i may lawfully have recourse to such administrations though thereby i may seem to separate from another church , wherein before i had joyn'd , and for which i still retain a very charitable opinion and affection . if the magistrate should be so unreasonable as to impose upon me an unskilful physician to be alone made use of in case of sickness , i might take him rather than none . but if there be another who i am sure hath more skill and will to help me , i think i should be accessary to the ruin of my health and life if i should not make use of him , notwithstanding such an inhibition . and is not the life and health and salvation of my immortal sonl dearer to me than any other concern ? is not communion with god the sweetest and most precious of all my delights ? is it not the life of my soul , and the crown of all my joys ? and are not those administrations most desirable in which i find my self most edifyed ? must i then be such an enemy to my own comfort and happiness as to throw away all the opportunities which i might have of that kind only in a complement ? amicus socrates , amicus plato , sed magis amica veritas . the bishops are my friends , and the ministers my friends , and i have a true love for them , but charity begins at home , especially when my precious soul more worth than all the world lyes at stake . this case is somewhat the clearer in those parishes where the publick ministers are either ignorant , profane or malignant . 3. nay , suppose i am so well satistisfy'd in communion with the parish churches in all administrations , as not to desire better , or not to expect better in the dissenters meetings , yet i cannot see what schism , i. e. what breach of christian love and charity there is in it for me to be present sometimes in the congregations of the sober dissenters , and to joyn with them who worship the same god , in the name of the same mediator , read and preach the same word , and live in hopes of the same inheritance , and differ from me only in some little things which i think not worth contending for , scarce worth the mentioning , hereby to evidence my universal love and catholick charity , and that i am not of narrow , schismatical , dividing principles , nor one that will sacrifice christian love to the petty trifling fancies and interests of a party . the sober dissenters are such as i have reason to hope have communion with god in what they do , and therefore why should not i now and then have communion with them ? in every nation be that fears god , and works righteousness , is accepted of him ; and why should he not be accepted of me , why may not i have fellowship with them that have fellowship with the father and with his son jesus christ ? 1 john. 1. 3. to fancy schism , i. e. uncharitable contention and a breach of christian love in this is very absurd . obj. but hereby i encourage a schism , and countenance them in their separation from that which in my eye is lawful and good , and doth not give just cause for such a separation . answ. there must be grains of allowance for difference of apprehension : different capacities , constitutions , and inclinations , custom and especially education must be put into the scale , and while i walk according to the light which god hath given me , i must charitably believe that others do so too . whether the dissenters meetings be as to the constitution and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esse of them ( looking upon them only as diversities of communion ) schismatical , hath been consider'd already , and found otherwise , by scripture-light . the common outcry is that it is the setting up of altar against altar , which is not so , for at the most it is but altar by altar , and though i have often read of one body , and one spirit , and one hope , and one lord , and one faith , and one baptism , and one god and father , eph. 4. 4 , 5 , 6. yet i could never find a word in all the new testament of one altar , except jesus christ , heb. 13. 10. the altar that sanctifies every gift , in whom we all centre . and if there be any of the dissenters who are schismatical , i. e. contentious , bitter , and uncharitable in their separation , let them bear their own burthen , but by my presence with them i encourage that in them no more than i do too much of a like spirit in too many of those who are call'd the church of england men , by my adherence to them . to conclude , by all this it is evident that unity of affection is the thing to be labour'd after more than uniformity in modes and ceremonies . we have been long enough trying to root schism out of the church , vi & armi● , by impositions , fines and penalties , choking our brethren because their throats have not been so wide as ours . and it hath been found ineffectual , even in the judgment of our great sanhedrim , who have declar'd that giving ease to scrupulous consciences is the likeliest way to unite their majesties protestant subjects in interest and affection ; what if we should now try another method and turn the stream of our endeavours into another channel ? hitherto we have been as it were striving which should hate one another most , what if we should now strive which should love one another best , and be most ready to do all offices of true charity and kindness , and bury all our little feuds and animosities in that blessed grave of christian love and charity ? what if we should every one of us of each party ( as we have been too often call'd ) set our selves by our preaching to promote and propagate the gospel of peace , and by our prayers to prevail with god for a more plentiful pouring out of the spirit of peace , that the dividing names of baalim may be taken out of our mouths , and that however it goes with uniformity of ceremony , we may keep the vnity of the spirit ; and then i doubt not but we should soon see our english jerusalem establish't a praise in the midst of the earth . and yet i am afraid even saints will be men , there will be remainders even of those corruptions which are the seed of schism , in the best , till we all come to the perfect man. and that 's the comfort of my soul that if we can but once get to heaven we shall be for ever out of the noise and hurry of this quarrelsom , contentious , dividing world , and the church triumphant shall be no more militant , but that happy world of everlasting light will be a world of everlasting love. finis . the unreasonableness of a separation from the new bishops, or, a treatise out of ecclesiastical history shewing that although a bishop was unjustly deprived, neither he nor the church ever made a separation, if the successor was not a heretick / translated out of an ancient greek manuscript in the publick library at oxford, by humfrey hody ... anglicani novi schismatis redargutio. english. 1691 approx. 46 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a52277 wing n1076 estc r18833 12171540 ocm 12171540 55409 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a52277) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 55409) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 430:14) the unreasonableness of a separation from the new bishops, or, a treatise out of ecclesiastical history shewing that although a bishop was unjustly deprived, neither he nor the church ever made a separation, if the successor was not a heretick / translated out of an ancient greek manuscript in the publick library at oxford, by humfrey hody ... anglicani novi schismatis redargutio. english. nicephorus callistus xanthopulus, ca. 1256-ca. 1335. hody, humphrey, 1659-1707. [10], 26 p. printed by j. heptinstall for henry mortlock ..., london : 1691. the text of the original was published by hody with the title anglicani novi schismatis redargutio, and ascribed by him and wing to nicephorus callistus xanthopulus. written by an unknown author who lived about 1237. cf. bm. published by hody to illustrate his disapproval of the position taken up by the nonjuring bishops. cf. dnb. abstract of the treatise: p. 23-26. reproduction of original in huntington library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church history -middle ages, 600-1500. nonjurors -early works to 1800. schism -early works to 1800. 2003-12 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the unreasonableness of a separation from the new bishops : or , a treatise out of ecclesiastical history . shewing , that although a bishop was unjustly deprived , neither he nor the church ever made a separation ; if the successor was not a heretick . translated out of an ancient greek manuscript in the publick library at oxford , by humfrey hody , b.d. fellow of wadham college . london , printed by i. heptinstall , for henry mortlock , at the phoenix in s. paul's church-yeard , mdcxci . viro summo , sapientissimo , sanctissimóque , r. r. in christo patri ac domino d no johanni , divinâ providentiâ archiepiscopo cantuariensi , totius angliae primati & metropolitano , antistiti verè orthodoxo , tractatum hunc contra schisma , sincerissimo affectu , animóque pacis ac tranquillitatis ecclesiae cupientissimo , è tenebris suis jam editum , reverentiâ maximâ , quâque per est humilitate , dicat consecrátque hvmfredvs hodivs . the preface . the greek manuscript , from which this treatise is translated , is in that part of the publick library at oxon , that is called the baroccian ; the cxlii d in number , according to the order those books are set in at present ; where it may be seen by any , that either out of curiosity may desire satisfaction ; or have any suspicion , that the whole may be an imposture , or any part of it an interpolation . for as for the exactness and fidelity that has been used in this english interpretation , we appeal to the original greek ; which is now in the press , and will speedily be published with a latin version . 't is very likely that this at oxford is the only copy of this book now remaining in the world. and that it should be preserved till our times , and yet hitherto be overlooked ; and at this very juncture be taken notice of , and so opportunely brought to light , seems to be more than a fortuitous hit ; it appears to have something of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a singular providence in it . god grant , it may have that good effect upon those unsatisfied persons of the church of england ; which so many examples and authorities of antiquity ( that antiquity , which they profess to imitate , and pretend to allege ) may give us reason to expect . surely no uncharitable aspersions of time-serving , courting preferment , or the like , that might be cast upon any that should write now in this cause , can take place against this author , so remote from the present age and controversie . 't is pity we cannot know , whom we are obliged to for this excellent tract . there 's no name prefixt before it ; nor any characters in it , that may lead us to a probable conjecture about the author . but for his age , without question he lived cccc years ago : seeing that the last history he produces , is in the xii century ; and the latest author he cites , was in the beginning of the xiii . and as to his authority and credit , though we need be less concerned about that , because he relates every thing from the testimonies of others ; and much more than is here said , may be easily made out from approved and authentick historians : yet he himself appears to have been no inconsiderable person , and , i believe , no less than a bishop . that this treatise was a sermon , may be manifestly discover'd from two passages in the 18 * and 19 pages ; where he addresses himself to his auditor , and not his reader . and the bulk of it is agreeable to a greek homily . and that the author lived under the jurisdiction of the see of constantinople , will be granted without difficulty ; because he has confined himself to the histories in the succession of those patriarchs , and from his own words , page 22. that from five constantinopolitan bishops the ordinations of all the clergy were conveyed down to his time . the occasion of composing our ms. seems to have been this . a patriarch of constantinople ( right or wrong ) was deposed , and another preferr'd to the see. vpon this some friends and dependants of the deprived began to make a party , and stir up the people to a schism : giving out , that the former was still their genuine and canonical bishop ; that it was sinfull to have communion with the new one ; and that all his ordinations would be invalid . whereupon our author , probably one of the bishops that assisted at the new patriarch's consecration ( forty or fifty were often present on such occasions ) one that had a tender concern for the peace of the church , and was apprehensive of the sin and danger of such a separation , made this historical discourse to the people , as 't is credible , in the cathedral church of sophia ; wherein he has included all the memorable and parallel examples , that had happen'd to that see within the space of near a thousand years . he allows those advocates for a separation all that they would have ; he puts the case with all the advantage on that side . admit , that the deposed bishop was unjustly deprived ; suppose , that the new one was uncanonically promoted : even in these circumstances , if he was not a heretick , neither the people nor the ejected patriarch himself ever refused communion with him ; the sufficience of his ordinations was never question'd by any council ; there was no precedent for schism upon those accounts in all the history of the church ; the concord and tranquillity and prosperity of the whole were of more consideration in those ages , than private interest or hidden resentment , or the more tempting pleasure of being head of a party . god forbid , that the case thus stated by our author should be thought parallel to that of our new bishops ; or that this book should be now publish'd , as if they needed that kind of defence . but we propose and recommend our treatise as an argumentation a fortiori . if in the cases of unjust deprivation and uncanonical succession a separation is without example in ecclesiastical story ; how inexcusable will they be , that shall make faction and schism , where neither of those hard circumstances can be found ? as to the exception of s. chrysostom's case ; which , it seems , could not be comprehended in so short a discourse , and was put off therefore by our author to a particular disquisition ; which , if ever it was publish'd , is either lost or yet undiscover'd : we must confess there was something singular in the misfortune of that great and popular man. the western churches did a long time refuse communion with some bishops ; that out of envy and malignity , by sinister interpretations and the falsest calumnies , deprived him of the see , and the church of one of the best prelates it ever had : those men they justly detested , as the actors and contrivers of a good patriarch's ruin : for the * emperor ( the civil power ) was blameless in a manner , and but passive in the business . thus it was in the west at a distance , in which case the renouncing communion was only , as it were , a breaking off a correspondence . but how were matters carried nearer home ? 't is well known , that most of the eastern bishops , though they * would not be accessory to that unjust deprivation , however were not so far transported as to make a schism in the church . but then the populace of constantinople , they were so enraged at it , that they not only forsook , but ( like recusants , or a rabble ? ) set fire to the church , which took hold also of the † parliament house , and laid it in ashes . but as that case is quite foreign to this of our new bishops ; so was the separation no less contrary to the spirit of s. chrysostom . that good man ( as a bishop that was then present , has related it ) when he saw he must be deposed , advised and charged the bishops his friends more than once ; * that as they loved christ , none of them should leave his church upon his account : † that they must keep communion with his deposers , and not rend and divide the church . and he injoyn'd some devout women , that attended there , that * as they hoped to obtain mercy from god , they should pay the same service and good-will to his successor by a fair election , that they had done to himself : † for the church could not be without a bishop . how could he , if he had now been alive , have more clearly and expresly given his opinion in our case . if a man , otherwise never so worthy , will acknowledge no duty to the civil magistrate , which protects him ; if he shall refuse to act in his function ; if he will not be the bishop , somebody else must be : for the church cannot be without a bishop . this is not being deprived , but relinquishing ; and a successor does not invade , but is placed in the chair by the united efficacy of canons , law , and necessity . 't is supposed the reader knows , that for several ages the greek churches have erroneously maintain'd , that adoration is to be paid to the images of our saviour ; and therefore needs not be offended at one or two passages in this treatise , to which it is now time to dismiss him . imprimatur . georgius royse , r. r. in christo p. ac d no , d no johanni , archiepisc . cantuar. à sacr. domest . july 6th . 1691. errata . pag. 13. l. 10. read he 's constrain'd by . p. 19. l. 13. read , syncellus or . p. ibid. l. 16. read nicolaus . p. 21. marg. l. 7. read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a treatise out of ecclesiastical histories , concerning such as at several times have been promoted to the patriar●hal see contrary to the canons , the rightfull patriarchs being depos'd and yet living . amongst whom we may observe , that not one of those that were unjustly depos'd , did ever separate himself from the communion of the church upon the account of his being depos'd ; provided that he , that was uncanonically promoted after him , was orthodox . excepting onely the case of chrysostome , which requires a particular consideration . the great john chrysostome , a most holy and excellent person , living within the jurisdiction of the antiochian see , was ordain'd deacon by meletius patriarch of antioch . this meletius having formerly been made bishop of sebastia by the arians , and afterwards translated to the throne of antioch by the suffrages both of the arians and orthodox , eustathius [ late bishop of sebastia ] being yet in banishment , was nevertheless because of his orthodoxy both accepted by and beneficial to the church . even the great basil was ordain'd deacon by the said meletius . now chrysostome being call'd from antioch , and seated upon the throne of constantinople , was afterwards unjustly depos'd , and thrust out of the city : and after him there was consecrated arsacius , the brother of nectarius , who was patriarch there before chrysostome . * he held the patriarchate 14 months , and , as cannot but be supposed , ordain'd presbyters , bishops , and deacons ; none of whom were rejected by the church . after his death the blessed atticus was consecrated , chrysostome , being yet alive and in exile . he raised a persecution against those that adher'd to chrysostome : and possessing the patriarchate 20 years , was approved by the church , both he himself , and those that he had ordain'd ; no one being troubled or called in question upon the account of his ordination . these things are deliver'd in the history of socrates . * from atticus , sisinnius , [ who succeeded him ] deriv'd his ordination ; and by sisinnius proclus was consecrated bishop of cyzicus . now if you would be certain that atticus was own'd and receiv'd by the church ; the divine celestine , bishop of rome , is a witness of that matter , who in an epistle to nestorius , praises and owns both atticus himself , and sisinnius , who was patriarch after him ; and ranks them as patriarchs after chrysostome . after sisinnius , nestorius was plac'd in the throne . and the third general council did not narrowly examine into the promotions of those patriarchs , or * about their ordinations : but only deposing the heretick nestorius , it receiv'd and own'd all those that had been made priests or bishops by arsacius , atticus , and sisinnius , and even by nestorius too , provided that they profess'd the orthodox faith , and confess'd the blessed virgin to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the mother of god. after the council , maximian was consecrated patriarch by such as had receiv'd their ordinations from the aforesaid four patriarchs . after him the bl. proclus , who deriv'd his ordination from the same hands , was advanc'd to that dignity . these things are related in the history of zonaras . now the bl. proclus , and not only he , but likewise maximian before him , and atticus , and sisinnius , were receiv'd into communion by s. cyril . after proclus , by the same succession of ordination , flavianus obtain'd the patriarchate . see now the succession . * they that depos'd chrysostome consecrated arsacius ; the same , together with arsacius , consecrated atticus ; arsacius and atticus , sisinnius ; and sisinnius , proclus ; who , as i said , held church-communion with s. cyril . observe moreover , that severianus bishop of gabala , and acacius bishop of berrhea , who were the chief authours of all the calamities that befell chrysostome , being afterwards * call'd in question by pope innonocent , were neither depos'd nor reprehended by him ; the pope leaving their punishment to god. the bl. flavianus having condemn'd and depriv'd the heretick eutyches , the emperour theodosius commanded dioscorus patriarch of alexandria to inspect and examine again into the matters between them . dioscorus thereupon having call'd a council at ephesus ; the second of that place , judg'd , condemn'd , depos'd and murder'd the b. flavianus , contrary to all ecclesiastical order ; absolving eutyches , and consecrating anatolius in flavianus's room . you see that anatolius was consecrated contrary to the canons , seeing it was by dioscorus , a murderer and a heretick , that espous'd the cause and the heresie of eutyches . but observe further : juvenalis bishop of jerusalem , basil bishop of seleucia , * photius bishop of isauria in epirus , eustathius bishop of berytus , thalassius bishop of cesarea in cappadocia , and , in a word , all that whole council concurr'd and acted with dioscorus in the unjust ejectment of flavianus , and the unlawfull ordination of anatolius in his place . yet none of them were rejected in the fourth general council of chalcedon , only eutyches and dioscorus , that persisted in their heresie . for that holy synod concerned not it self about the ordinations of uncanonical and illegal patriarchs , but onely requir'd of every one the profession of the orthodox faith. now that anatolius was promoted against the canons , pope leo attests ; writing thus concerning him to the emperour marcian : that therefore he would make no inquiry about anatolius 's consecration , because he profess'd the orthodox belief . these things are written in the acts of the second council concerning flavianus . in the reign of the emperour anastasius , when the heresie of the acephali was rife , the emperour himself became addicted to it , and expell'd out of the city three patriarchs ; because they refus'd to embrace his false opinion , and anathematize the fourth general council , and communicate with severus : the first , * euthymius ; the second , macedonius , who succeeded him ; ( unlawfully indeed , but because he was an assertour of the catholick belief , he was not rejected by the church , neither did euthymius himself recede from his communion ) and the third , timotheus ; who himself likewise was unlawfully promoted in the room of macedonius : who yet was not rejected by macedonius , because he was a maintainer of the true faith. nay , even the great elias bp. of jerusalem , embrac'd the communion of all these three patriarchs , when all were alive together ; being troubled indeed at the ejectment of him in possession , but receiving the successour also , because of his orthodox faith. the same emperour anastasius deposed and banished the said b. elias from the see of jerusalem , because he would not come over to his heretical opinion , and constituted john in his place : whom , because he publickly preach'd the orthodox belief . contrary to the emperour's expectation , elias in no wise rejected , but continued in communion with him . and theodosius and sabas , those reverend fathers , the heads and chief of all the monks of the holy city , visiting and relieving elias in his exile , both lov'd him and communicated with him , as an injur'd patriarch ; and yet they communicated with john too , ( that sate then in the throne of jerusalem , ) as their patriarch . and therefore the names both of john and elias were written in the sacred diptychs of jerusalem , in these words : may the memory of elias and john be everlasting . these things are written in the * life of the holy and great sabas . in the days of athanasius the great , maximus the confessour was patriarch of jerusalem . now when a synod was called at tyre by the emperour constantine , to consider of the matters relating to athanasius ; and laying false things to his charge had * condemned and deposed him ; athanasius flies to maximus at jerusalem . maximus thereupon calls a private synod , and repeals what was done by the synod of tyre against athanasius , and restores him to his see , and establishes likewise the doctrine of the homoousion . upon that the * bishop of cesarea in palestine unjustly ejects maximus , and sets up cyril in his room , one that was then the chief of the arian party ; but afterwards becoming a convert to the homoousion ( or orthodox faith , ) he was willingly receiv'd and allowed as patriarch by the church ; and was stiled , the great , and , the holy cyrill . and observe that even maximus himself did not withdraw from cyrill's communion ; therefore both were acknowledged as saints [ ( that is , had their names in the diptychs of the church ) ] as both assertours of the same faith. these things are deliver'd in the life of the great athanasius . in the emperour justinian's reign , eutychius of amasia , being constituted patriarch of constantinople , a man holy and belov'd of god , was unjustly depos'd and expell'd the city , and john was preferr'd to the see. but eutychius did not upon that account separate himself from the communion of john ; and both therefore were receiv'd by the church . in the same emperour's time , athimus bp. of trebisond was translated to the see of constantinople . he being discover'd to be an heretick , was depos'd by pope agapetus ; who set up in his place the most holy menas : but his ordinations were allowed of , as valid . afterwards , when the heresie of the monothelites spread it self , and four patriarchs successively , * sergius , pyrhus , paul and another , were of that sect ; and as it must needs be suppos'd , ordain'd and consecrated many : not one so ordain'd or consecrated , provided he relinquished and anathematiz'd his heresie , was rejected by the church ; but all were receiv'd by the sixth general council , and by george , patriarch of constantinople . the emperour justinian , surnam'd rhinotmetus , coming the second time to the throne , depos'd and banish'd unjustly the most holy patriarch callinicus , and plac't cyrus a recluse of amastris in the see. now observe , that callinicus did not separate himself from the church and from cyrus , upon the account of his unjust deprivation : and that cyrus , together with those he had ordain'd , were received by the church . artemius , otherwise nam'd anastasius , being advanc'd to the imperial throne , * upon the death of the patriarch of constantinople , constituted in his place the most holy germanus bp. of cyzicus . then leo isaurus obtaining the empire , and furiously raging against the sacred images , banishes the holy germanus , and places anastasius in his throne . fifty six years after , the sixth general council was call'd , which tarasius was president of , who had been consecrated patriarch before the council was appointed ; but whether by bishops that were for or against images , is uncertain . and all that opposed the adoration of images , upon renouncing their heresie , were received by that council . now in the time of this holy tarasius there happen'd that which follows . constantine , then emperour , after he had put away his * lawfull wife , and shut her up in a nunnery , against her will , espoused * another , that had her self been a nun ; and so became , according to the express declaration of the gospel , a manifest adulterer . upon this the patriarch tarasius refusing to officiate in so unlawfull a marriage , joseph , * the steward of the church , was so hardy as to perform the office , and render'd himself thereby obnoxious to deprivation . the patriarch attempting to deprive him , was deterred by the emperour , who declared that , if joseph was ejected , he would set up the heresie of the iconomachi again ; which forc'd the patriarch to receive him , though much against his will. but the bl. theodorus , abbot of the monastery of studium , withdrew himself from the communion both of church and emperour too : from the emperour , as being adulterer ; from the church ; because it received joseph , the confirmer of that adulterous match : and upon that account , he suffer'd a thousand injuries from the emperour . after this , constantine had his eyes put out ; and his mother irene took the government upon her : she recalls the bl. theodorus , commends both him and tarasius ; the former , for his prudence in his care for the church ; and the latter , for his exact observance of discipline . then the patriarch ejects joseph , the cause of all this schism ; and he and theodorus are at unity again . after this , irene is depos'd , and nicephorus the * treasurer usurps the throne , and tarasius dies , and the holy patriarch nicephorus succeeds him : he constrains the emperour to receive joseph again , whom tarasius had deprived . upon which theodorus a second time withdraws from the church . a while after , that emperour and his son stauracius dying , michael curopalates gets the sceptre ; and the patriarch nicephorus taking hold of that opportunity deprives joseph again , and so he and theodorus are reconciled . but those opprobrious invectives , that theodorus during his banishment had used against the holy tarasius and nicephorus , were by no means approv'd of by the church , * as proceeding from littleness of mind . for the holy methodius , in his epistle to the monks of studium , has these words ; if your bl. abbot had not retracted what he spoke against the holy tarasius and nicephorus , he should not have been fellow-minister with us ; we would not have receiv'd him into our communion . these things are found in the second book of the holy nicon , in one of the epistles of methodius . the same holy methodius , in his last testament , which he made at his death , makes this ordinance concerning the monks of studium that refused to join in communion with the catholick church ; if they repent and come over to the catholick church , and renounce their schism , let them be receiv'd as barely christians , but by no means be advanc'd to the priesthood . thus * in the volume of councils , which is read in the church , as every body knows , all those things that were spoken and written against the holy patriarchs , tarasius and nicephorus , are made an anathema . and moreover , concerning the same affair of ( theodorus ) studites , this also is written , that the holy theodorus did not do well in separating himself from the communion of the catholick church , and the holy patriarchs , tarasius and nicephorus ; * for they were then the church . for if we cannot withdraw our selves from the communion of any ordinary priest * , without the sin of heresie ; how much less may we separate from the communion of such holy , orthodox patriarchs , the luminaries of the world ? and although the holy theodorus , now with god , was so far hurried away , as to make this schism ; yet afterwards he relinquisht it , and set himself right again , as the holy methodius manifests in the foresaid epistle . and the saying of the prophet david was fulfilled in this holy man , though he fall , he shall not be utterly cast down ; for the lord upholdeth him with his hand . after this , during the reigns of leo armenius , michael traulus , and his son theophilus , successively for the space of twenty six years , there was not one orthodox patriarch ; but all were of the sect of the iconomachi , and maintained the opinion of the emperours . but after the death of theophilus , his wife the blessed theodora , together with a synod , plac'd the holy methodius in the see ; who was suceeded by the great ignatius . * then michael reigning with his mother theodora , was , together with her , corrupted , and was therefore sharply reprov'd by the holy ignatius , and excluded the communion of the church : caesar therefore , being able to doe what he pleas'd by his imperial power , depos'd and banish'd ignatius , and establish'd photius in his stead . after this came basilius macedo to the crown , and he presently deposes photius , and reestablishes ignatius ; but after the death of ignatius , he again restores photius . which indeed is a thing to be wonder'd at . for if photius was depos'd as an adulterer and usurper of the throne , how comes he again to be promoted as innocent ? but be it as it will , the church however receives and acknowledges and honours them both , because orthodox : and thus she says ( in her diptychs ) may the memory of ignatius , photius , stephanus , and antonius , the most holy patriarchs , be everlasting : and whatsoever is spoken against ignatius , and photius , and stephanus , and antonius , the most holy patriarchs , is an anathema . now let the hearer observe again , that even the holy ignatius did not , because he was unjustly thrust out of the see , either recede from the communion of photius , or perswade the people to do so . for this is the scope and design of all the histories that are here produced , to shew , that not one of all those patriarchs , that were unjustly and uncanonically thrust out of their proper sees , did ever withdraw himself from the communion of his successor , or perswade the people to separate from the church ; but that both they and the people continued in communion , if so be their successors were orthodox . after this , leo , the son of basilius , being possess'd of the imperial sceptre , depriv'd that orthodox patriarch whom he found in the see , and promoted stephanus , his own brother , in his room ; one that was sound indeed in the faith , but nevertheless was made patriarch contrary to the canons . but no schism was made in the church upon that account . for stephanus likewise was own'd and receiv'd by her . so that thus she speaks ( in her diptychs ) may the memory of ignatius , photius and stephanus , the most holy patriarchs , be everlasting . the same emperor leo , surnamed the philosopher , ejected the most rightfull patriarch nicolaus , a man renowned for his orthodoxy , out of the see ; because he refused to consent to his fourth marriage ; and oppos'd him earnestly in his design of making it lawfull to marry the fourth time ; * and yet to continue in government , though in his room he advanc'd euthymius , who was syncellus's or nicolaus's assessor . here observe again , that the patriarch nocolaus did not separate himself from the catholick church or from euthymius , nor teach the people to do so ; and that undoubtedly because euthymius was orthodox . nay , when after the decease of the emperor leo , his brother alexander , that succeeded him , deposed euthymius , and replaced nicolaus , who was yet living , in the see , yet the ordinations of euthymius were not rejected , seeing that they were orthodox , and by an orthodox patriarch . these things are written in the history of zonaras . the emperor manuel very wrongfully ejected cosmas atticus the patriarch , a man full of piety and goodness , and advanc'd another to his see. but cosmas , though highly resenting this injustice , did not however either himself break off from the communion of the church , or incite the people to such a schism . but he made this denunciation ; that the empress should never have any male issue ; which accordingly came to pass ; for the emp. alexius was born of the second wife mary , that that was descended from the latins . upon this imprecation of cosmas , * contostephanus of scio , one of the by-standers , out of zeal for the empress , pressed toward him , to strike him , but was stopt by some body . let him alone , says cosmas , for he himself suddenly shall have a stroke from a stone ; which accordingly came to pass . for not long after contostephanus was kill'd with the blow of a stone in the war at corcyra . this is in the history of choniates . the emperor isaacius angelus finding basilius camaterus in the patriarchal chair , deposed him without any just cause , and promoted nicetas , * the chaplain of the church to the see. a year after , he deposes him too , upon pretence of his simplicity and old age , and promotes leontius , protesting that the blessed virgin ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) appear'd to him , and bid him prefer leontius , who was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from that occasion . soon after not liking this leontius neither , he again averrs the blessed virgin had appear'd to him , and bid him depose him too ; which accordingly he does , and sets up dositheus bishop of jerusalem in his room . this giving general dissatisfaction , dositheus also is ejected , and * another put in his place . so in the space of nine years , that isaacius reign'd he made five patriarchs successively : by whom , as must needs be suppos'd , there were many persons ordain'd . and from them the whole order of the priesthood and all the church is brought down to our days . and 't is a matter of admiration , that in the reign of that emperor , five patriarchs succeeding one another , and all alive together , should not separate from one anothers communion ; because one was put in and another was put out , purely at the emperor's pleasure . to conclude all in a word ; one thing only was required by the church , that the new bishop should profess the same ( orthodox ) faith with the other that was depos'd ; but as for other complaints and accusations , that ever and anon were made upon such promotions , except it were heresie , she never made any strict examination into them . an abstract of this treatise : being an account , in short , of such patriarchs as at several times have been unjustly depos'd by the emperors , yet did not separate themselves from the communion of their unlawfull successors , nor perswade the people to do so , because the successors were orthodox . in arcadius's reign the great chrysostom was unjustly depos'd : his successors were arsacius , and the divine atticus . in theodosius junior's time the holy flavianus was depos'd by the heretick dioscorus : his successor was anatolius . in anastasius's reign , * euthymius was depos'd : his successor was macedonius ; and his , timotheus . in the same reign elias , bishop of jerusalem , was depos'd : his successor was john. in the reign of constantine the great , maximius , bishop of jerusalem , was depos'd by the bishop of cesarea in palestine : his successor was cyrill . in the reign of justinian , eutychius of amasia , patriarch of c. p. was depos'd : his successor was john. in the same reign , anthimus , once bishop of trebisond , then patriarch of c. p. was depos'd : his successor was the most holy menas . in the reign of justinianus rhinotmetus , callinicus was depos'd : his successor was cyrus , a recluse of amastris . in the reign of michael , the son of theophilus , the great ignatius was depos'd : his successour was photius . in the reign of basilius macedo , photius , the successor of ignatius , was depos'd : he was succeeded by the foresaid ignatius ; and ignatius again by him . in the reign of leo the philosopher , photius was again depos'd , upon some false accusations which the emperor brought against him : his successor was stephanus the emperor's brother . under the same emperor * nicolaus the mystical ( philosopher ) was depos'd : his successor was euthymius the syncellus . in the reign of alexander the brother of leo , euthymius the successor of nicolaus was depos'd , and nicolaus again restor'd . in the emperor manuel's reign , cosmas atticus was depos'd , and succeeded by theodosius . in the reign of isaacius angelus , basilius camaterus was depos'd , and succeeded by the chaplain nicetas mundanes . under the same emperor nicetas was depos'd , and succeeded by leontius theotocites . in the same reign , leontius theotocites was depos'd , and succeeded by dositheus b. of jerusalem . in the same reign , dositheus likewise was depos'd , and succeeded by georgius xiphilinus . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a52277-e260 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . pallad . p. 80. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theod. c. 5. l. 34. † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . socrat. vi. 8. * pallad . vita chrys. p. 67. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . † p. 69. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * pall. p. 90. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . notes for div a52277-e1210 * add. * this arsacius , because of his brother nectarius's jealousie towards him , had formerly sworn , that he would never accept of the see of constantinople . so the ms. which in this place is written erroneously . * the words of the ms. are these . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in an uncommon acceptation of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be thus translated . now they that had been ordain'd by atticus , ordain'd sisinnius . for that sisinnius , when atticus died , the 10th of october , was only a presbyter , and was consecrated patriarch the 28th of february following ; appears from socrat. lib. vii . c. 26. see the gr. and lat. edition . * ms. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. or those that were ordain'd by them , as before . * ms. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which may be thus translated . they that deposed chrysostome , consecrated arsacius ; the same , and those consecrated by arsacius , atticus ; those by arsacius and atticus , sisinnius ; and those by sisinnius , proclus . * or , discovered to pope innocent , ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * ms. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a mistake of the writer , and must be thus corrected . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. basil bp. of seleucia in isauria , and photius bp. of tyre see the gr. & lat. edit . * so the ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . an errour of the writer , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as all historians call him . * written by cyril of scythopolis , c. 56 , 57 , &c. cotelerii ecclesiae graecae monum . tom. 111. * ms. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. had condemned him when he was absent : or , had condemned him for not making his appearance . * acacius . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which is corrupted , the true reading being , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in stead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i.e. sergius , pyrrhus , paul & peter . see the gr. and lat. edition . * so indeed the ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. the bishop of constantinople being dead : allowing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which i do not remember to have read ) to be for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but this being not true in matter of fact , ( zonaras tom. 2. p. 98. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) i believe the author might write thus ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. ejecting the present patriarch out of the see. * maria. * theodote . ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i.e. one that was a nun too . theophanes and zonaras call her 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lady of the bed-chamber . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : which was the highest ecclesiastical office under the patriarch . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * so indeed the ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perhaps our author might use an innovated word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. that those contumelious aspersions proceeded from the bitterness and vexation of his mind , occasioned by his great sufferings . so demosth. orat. in midiam , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . or even 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may admit of that interpretation : seeing that s. chrysostom seems to use it for quarrels and discontents between husband and wife , 17. hom. ad 1 cor. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . take which word you please , we may be certain that this is our author's meaning . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. in the synodicon of the church . by which is peculiarly understood that decree that was made against the iconomachi by the synod at constantinople under michael and theodora , a.d. 842. appointed to be read in the greek churches every year upon the first sunday in lent. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which may be thus interpreted ; if we may not separate from the communion of any ordinary priest , except it be for heresie . agreeably to the first and last paragraphs of this tract . psal. 37. 24. the ms. has here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , inspead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * this whole paragraph is thus in the ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . where , as such mistakes are too frequent in ancient mss. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put instead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that the passage must be read thus ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. caesar in those ages was not a proper name , but the title of one of the highest dignities of the empire . zonaras , tom. 2. p. 161. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same is said by leo grammaticus and cedrenus , &c. so that this passage ought to be translated thus ; in the reign of michael , bardas the caesar was sharply reproved and excommunicated by ignatius , because he lived incestuously with his daughter in law. the caesar having all the power in his hands , and leading the king's facility and ' dissoluteness whither he pleased , gets ignatius to be ejected , and photius set up in his place . all historians mention , that michael minded nothing but his pleasure , leaving all serious affairs to bardas , his chief minister of state. * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is ; and to enact a general allowance of it for the future : or perhaps thus , adding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bring his son after him into the administration of the government . the case was this , leo had buried three wives without any issue that lived ; but had a natural son constantine by one zoe , his concubine . being willing therefore that an heir of his body should succeed him , he marries this zoe , to legitimate the bastard son. but the fourth marriage had been declared by the canons to be downright fornication . leo therefore endeavoured to have those canons superseded by a new law , that should permit the fourth marriage : which the patriarch nicephorus endeavour'd to obstruct , and forfeited his dignity for it . or , it may be our authour wrote 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. to publish and promulgate it for the future . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which probably is an abbreviation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and must be thus translated , when one stephanus , surnamed contostephanus , that stood by . so nic. choniates , pag. 52. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and cinnamus , p. 55. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the second ecclesiastical office under the patriarch , next to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mentioned p. 12. of this tract . * georgius xiphilinus . notes for div a52277-e6370 * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as before . * ms. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which may be interpreted nicolaus , one of the privy-council . a sermon against schisme, or, the seperations of these times preacht in the church of wattlington in oxford-shire, with some interruption, september 11, 1652 : at a publick dispute held there between jasper mayne, d.d. and one ----... mayne, jasper, 1604-1672. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a50415 of text r32061 in the english short title catalog (wing m1475). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 64 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a50415 wing m1475 estc r32061 12308726 ocm 12308726 59326 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a50415) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 59326) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1016:3) a sermon against schisme, or, the seperations of these times preacht in the church of wattlington in oxford-shire, with some interruption, september 11, 1652 : at a publick dispute held there between jasper mayne, d.d. and one ----... mayne, jasper, 1604-1672. [2], 22 p. printed for r. royston ..., london : 1652. reproduction of original in the cambridge university library. eng schism -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. a50415 r32061 (wing m1475). civilwar no a sermon against schisme: or, the seperations of these times. preacht in the church of wattlington in oxford-shire, with some interruption, mayne, jasper 1652 10960 37 25 0 0 0 0 57 d the rate of 57 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the d category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-02 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-04 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2003-04 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon against schisme : or , the seperations of these times . preacht in the church of wattlington in oxford-shire , with some interruption , september 11. 1652. at a publick dispute held there , between jasper mayne , d.d. and one — mat. 13.47 . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . london , printed for r. royston , at the angel in ivie-lane , 1652. the preface . if you please to turne to the 19. chapter of the acts of the apostles , and to read from the 24. to the 33. verse of that chapter , there is there mention made of a great assembly , and concurse of people ; who upon the instigation of one demetrius , a silver-smith , were confusedly drawne together into a publick theater . and when they were met there , the confusion was so great , that the theater for the time , was quite changed into a babel ; there was a perfect division of speech , and tongues among them , scarce any two spoke the same language ; for some cryed out one thing , and some cryed out another , as you may read at the 32. v. of that chap. rudenesse , clamour , tumult , noyse , was all that issued from them . nay 't was a meeting so confused , so wholly void of reason , that the greatest part knew not why they were come together , as you may read in the end , and close of that verse . and hence 't is , that when saint paul would have ingaged himselfe among them , and would have preacht to them to convert and turne them from their errour , 't is said at the 31. verse of that chapter , that some of the chief of asia , who were his friends , sent to him , and desired him , that he would not adventure himselfe among such a rude , tempestuous rout of people . and now , if you desire to know why i have sayd this to you , 't is to let you see , first , that this hath partly been my case , i have been sent , nay spoken to , by some persons of quality and honour , not to ingage my selfe among such a mixt multitude as this ; where my affronts may be great , but my successe , and harvest small : and to speak truth to you , if i had been left to the peaceablenesse of my owne quiet temper , ( which never did delight in stormes , nor to dispute with fire . ) if the fierce , and eager importunity of some who have provokt me , had not drawn me from my iudgement , i should have followed their advice , this meeting had not beene . nay , i should have lookt upon my appearance here , as a distemper , like to theirs , who have provokt and called me hither . for my coole and wiser thoughts have still suggested to me , that to dispute of truth with those who doe not understand it , is such a piece of madnesse , as if i should dispute of colours with a blind man , of musicke with a deafe , or of the sent of flowers with one borne without a smell . next , therefore , having so farre departed from my reason , as to submit to a dispute in this great publick meeting , lest it should prove such a confused meeting , as i described to you before ; a meeting where my logick must fight duels with men made of rudenesse , tumult , noyse ; or lest it should prove a meeting where men who can speak nought but english , shall yet speak divers tongues ; and where some shall cry out one thing , and some shall cry another , i have made it my humble suit to some persons of honour here present , that by their presence they will free the place from all such wild confusions . and that , if i must dispute , i may dispute with civill men , and not undergoe saint paul's misfortune , who fought with beast's at ephesus . thirdly , lest this meeting should prove like the confused meeting , which i mention'd to you before , in one particular more ; that is , lest the greatest part of you should not know why you are this day come together . before i enter upon a full pursuit , or handling of this text , it will be needfull that i tell you the occasion of this meeting , which that i may the better doe , i shall desire you to beleeve , that 't is not a meeting of my projection or contrivance . i appeare not here to raise a faction , or to draw a party after me , nor to adde to the rents of the countrey , which are too wide already . nor am i come hither to revenge my selfe in the pulpit , or to speake ill of those who have most lewdly railed at me . let them wallow themselves , as much as they please , in their owne grosse filth , and mire ; let them , if they please , be those raging waves of the sea , which saint iude speakes of , which are alwayes foming out their owne shame , when they have steept their tongues in gall , and spewd forth all their venome , they shall not make me change my opinion ; which is , that to cast dirt for dirt , or to returne ill-language for ill-language , is a cou●se so unreasonable , as if two men should fight a duell , and chuse a dunghill for their weapon . as therefore , i am not come hither to shew my selfe malitious , so i am not come hither to gaine applause , or reputation by this meeting . no thirst of fame , no affection of victorie hath drawne me from my study to steppe into this pulpit . i understand my owne infirmities too well to be so selfe-conceited . or if my abilities were farre greater then they are , yet i have alwayes lookt on fame thus got , to be so slight a thing , as if a man should feed on ayre , or make a meale of shaddows . not to hold you therefore any longer in suspense , if you , who know it not already , desire to know the true o●casion of this meeting , 't is briefely this ; i have for some yeares ( even with teares in my eyes ) seen one of the saddest curses of the scripture fulfill'd upon this nation : with a bleeding heart i speake it , i have seene , not onely three kingdoms , but our cityes , towns , and villages , nay even our private familyes divided against themselves . i have seene the father differing in opinion from the sonne , and i have seene the sonne differing in opinion from the father . i have seene the mother broken from the daughter , and i have seen the daughter divided from the mother . nay , our very marriage-beds have not scapt the curse of separation . like iacob and esau issuing from the same wombe , i have seene two twins of separation rise from between the same curtains . i have seen the wedlock knot quite untyed in religion ; i have seene the husband in opposition to the wife ▪ goe to one , and i have seene the wife in opposition to her husband , for many years together , goe to another congregation . in a word ( my brethren , ) the church of christ among us , which was once as seamelesse as his coate , is now so rent by schismes , so torne by separations , that 't is become like the coate of ioseph which you reade of in the 37. chapter of genesis , at the 3. verse , scarce one piece is colourd like another ; and i pray god it prove not like the coat of ioseph in one particular more ; i pray god the weaker be not sold by his brethren , and his coate be not once more dyed red , once more imbrued in bloud . this , you will say , is very sad , and yet this is not all ; that which extremely adde to the misery of our rents , and separations , is , that the wisest cannot hope they will ere be peeced , or reconciled . for the persons who thus separate , are so far from beleeving themselves to be in an errour , that they strongly thinke all others erre who seperate not too ; they thinke themselves bound in conscience to doe as they doe . nay , zealous arguments are urged , and texts of scripture quoted , to prove that 't is a damning sinne not to goe on in separation . the churches where their neighbours met ere now contemned , and scorned : nay , i have with mine owne ears heard a dining room , a chamber , a meeting under trees ; nay , i have heard a hog-stye , a b●rne , called places more sanctified then they . in a word , one of the great reasons which they urge , why they thus forsake our churches , and make divided congregations , is , because ( they say ) the people which assemble there are so wicked , so prophane , that they turne gods house of prayer into a den of theeves . to keep this infection from spreading in my parish , and to keepe this piece of leaven from souring the whole lumpe ; and withall to satisfie one , whom i looke upon as a well-meaning , though a seduced , and erring person , who hath ingaged her selfe by promise , that if i can take the mist from her eyes , and cleerly let her see her errour , she will returne back to the church , from which she hath for some yeares gone astray ; and being invited to doe this in a way of christian challenge , which hath raised a great expectation in the countrey , i have taken up the gauntlet , and here present my selfe before you ; and before i enter the lists , to let you all see the justice of the cause which i here stand to defend , i have chosen this text for my shield ; where he , who wrote this epistle to the hebrews sayes , let us consider one another to provoke one another to love and to good works , not forsaking the assembling of our selve● together , as the manner of some is . the division . in which words , the only poynt which i shall insist upon , as the fittest , and most seasonable to be preacht to this divided congregation , shall be the point of schisme ; or , in plaine english , separation , as 't is exprest to us in these words , let us not forsake the assembling of our selves together , as the manner of some is . in the pursuit and handling of which words , i will proceed by these two plaine and easie steps . first , i will prove to you , by arguments , which have a sun-beame for their parent , that the rent or separation which is now made in the church , is a very grievous sinne : indeed , a sinne so grievous , that i scarce know whether christians can be guilty of a greater . next , i will examine and answer their arguments , and texts of scripture ; who doe perswade themselves and others that their separation is no sinne ; nay , that would be a grievous sinne not to separate as they doe . in the meane time i beseech you to lend me a quiet and favourable attention , whilest i begin with the first of th●se parts , and that shall be to prove to you , that the separations of our times , are great and grievous sinnes . among the other characters and descriptions which have been made of us men , we have been called , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . that is , a creature borne and made , and created for society . towards the preservation and maintenance wherof god at the beginning , ordered his creation of us so , that whereas other creatures take their originall and birth from a diversitie of parents . he made us men to spring from one , undivided , single payre . one adam , and one eve were the two joyn'd parents of mankinde . and the reason of this was , that there might not onely be among us one common kinred and alliance , but that we might hold a firme , and constant league and friendship with each other too . and hence 't is we see , that without any other teacher but their owne naturall instinct , men in all ages have avoided seperation , by gathering themselves into formed bodyes of cittyes , towns and commonwealths . neighbourhood , society , mutuall help , and conversation , being one of the great ends for which god made us men . and upon this ground it hath been disputed , whether a hermit , or monastic man , breake not the law of nature , because he separates himselfe from the company of men ? and 't is clearly stated by some great casuists , that if he seperate from others for no end but separation , if he retire himselfe into a cave or wildernesse , or desart , ( as some of the ancient hermits did ) not for devotion , but out of a hatred , or distaste of the rest of mankinde ; in that particular he cannot well be called a man , but some wilder creature , made to dwell in caves , desarts , forrests , dens . as then , the law of nature doth require us to preserve society and friendship , so the law of christ hath tyed , and woven this knot much faster . we are all of kinne by nature , but we are all brethren as christians : men allyed to one another by one common hope , one common faith , one common saviour , one common god , and lord , and father of us all . and upon this ground , when one christian shall divide or forsake the society of another , unlesse it be upon a just principle of conscience , and to avoid a sinne , the scripture calls it not barely separation , but separation which is schisme . that is , such a separation as is a gospel-sinne ● . which , that you may the more clearly understand , give me leave to aske you in truth what is schisme ? why the best definition of it that was ever yet given is this , that schisme is nothing else , but a separation of christians from that part of the visible church , of which they were once members , upon meere fancyed , slight , unnecessary grounds . in which definition of schisme , three things doe offer themselves to your serious observation , to make it formall schisme , or a signe of separation . first it must be a separation of christians from some part of the visible church , of which they were once members ; that is , ( according to the definition , a visible church as it concerns this present purpose ) it must be a deniall of communion with that congregation of christians , with whom they were once united under a rightly-constituted pastor . next , they who thus separate , must betake themselves to some other teacher , whom , in opposition to the former , they chuse to be their guide , and so make themselves his followers . thirdly , they must erect a new assembly , or place of congregation , as a new church distinct from that from which they doe divide . lastly , this choyce of a new guide , and separation from the old , this erection of a new church , and division from the former must be upon slight unnecessary grounds ; for if the cause , or ground of their separation be needlesse , vaine , unnecessary , if it spring more out of humour , pride , desi●e of change , or hatred of their brethren , then out of any christian love to keepe themselves from sinnes ; 't is in the scripture-language schisme , that is , a sinne of separation . or if you will heare me expresse my self in the language of a very learned man ( who hath contrived a clue to lead us through this labyrinth ) this breach of communion , this separation from a church rightly constituted ; this choyce of a new guide , new teacher , new instructer . lastly , this setting up of a new congregation , or place of private meetings , is the same sinne in religion ▪ which sedition , or rebellion is in the commonwealth or state . for upon a right examination of the matter 't will be found , that schisme is a religious , or ecclesiasticall sedition , as sedition in the state is a civill , lay-schisme . which two sinnes , though they appeare to the world in diverse shapes , the one with a sword , the other with a bible in his hand ; yet they both agree in this , that they both disturbe the publick peace . the one of the state , where men are tyed by laws as men ; the other of the church , where men should be tyed by love as christians . to let you yet farther see , what a grievous sinne this sinne of schisme or separation is ; if the time would give me leave , i might here rayse the schoolemen , antient fathers , and generall councells from the dead , and make them preach to you from this pulpit against the sinne of separation . i might tell you , that in the purest times of the church , a schismatick , and hereticke were lookt upon as twinnes ; the one as an enemy to the faith , the other to communion . but because in our darke times , learning is so grown out of date , that to quote an ancient father , is thought a piece of superstition ; and to cite a generall councell is to speake words to our new gifted men unknowne , i will say nothing of this sinne , but what the scripture sayes before me . first , then , i shall desire you to heare what s. paul sayes in this case , in the last chapter of his epistle to the romans at the 17. verse . turne to the place , and marke it well i beseech you . now i beseech you , brethren , sayes he there , marke them which cause divisions , and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them : that is , in other words , separate your selves from them . and then he gives you a character , and description of those separaters at the 18. verse of that chapter ; and sayes , for they that are such , serve not our lord iesus christ , but their owne belly . and by good words and faire speeches deceive the hearts of the simple . in which words , foure things are so exactly drawn to life , as makes them a perfect prophecye , or rather picture of our times ▪ the first is , that there were some in s. pauls dayes , who caused divisions in the church ; men , who in a way of schisme , and separation , made themselves the heads and leaders of divided congregations . next , the ground upon which they built their separation ; 't was not upon any just , true , lawfull , scripture-ground . for the text sayes , 't was contrary to the doctrine which the apostles taught , and preacht . but the true cause , or ground , why they thus caused separations , was meerly self-interest ; and that they might gaine by their divisions . nay , 't was such a poore , base , unworthy selfe-interest , that 't is there said , they did it in compliance to their belly . the third thing which will deserve your observation , is , the cunning art they used to draw the weake to be their followers . 't is there sayd , that by good words and faire speeches , they deceived the hearts of the simple , especially the simple of the weaker sex . and who these were , s. paul , in other words , but to the same purpose tells you , in the 3. chapter of his second epistle to timothy at the 5 , 6 , 7. verses of that chapter . where speaking of such coseners , he sayes , they had a forme of godlinesse , an outward seeming holynesse to deceive and cosen by ; and that under this forme of godlynesse they crept into houses , and there led captive silly women , loaden with sinnes , and drawne away with divers lusts. women so unable to distinguish right from wrong , that they were alwayes learning , and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth . and certainly , my brethren , 't is no new thing under the sunne , to see the weaker sexe misled by holy formes , and shews . 't is no new thing , i say , under the sunne , for a man that makes long prayers , to eat up a widdows house ; or for a cunning angler to catch the sillyer sort , with a hooke bayted with religion . 't was so in our saviours time , and 't was so in s. pauls . and whether their demure lookes , their precise carriage , their long prayers , their good words and fayre speeches , be not the hooke , and snare , by which weake people are caught now ; whether the feasting of , their bellyes , or the making gayne of godlinesse ; or whether the itch and pride of being the leaders of a faction ; or whether the vaine ambition of being thought more holy or more gifted than the rest , be not the true end of those , who doe now cause separations , i will not rashly censure , but i have some reason to suspect ▪ but this is not all . the fourth , and last thing , which most deserves your observation , is , that separation in that place is such a scripture-sinne , that s. paul commands us to separate from those , who doe thus cause separations . heare the place , i pray , once more repeated to you , i beseech you , brethren , sayes he , marke them who cause divisions among you , and avoid them . that is , as i said before , separate your selves from them . if they , who upon no just cause doe separate , must be separated from , i hope you 'l all confesse that separation is a sinne . and what sinne thinke you is this sinne of separation ? why , i know some of you will thinke it strange if i should say , 't is a sinne of the flesh . and yet s. paul sayes , that 't is a sinne of the flesh , in the 3. chapter of his first epistle to the corinthians . marke i beseech you what he sayes in that place . are ye not carnall ? sayes he there . for whereas there are among you envyings , and strifes , and divisions ; are ye not carnall , and walke as men ? sayes he at the 3. verse . againe , when one saith , i am paul ; and when another saith , i am of apollos ; are ye not carnall ? sayes he at the 4. v. of that chapter . if to divide and separate from the followers of s. paul , and to make themselves the followers , and disciples of apollos ; or if by way of separation to make themselves the markes of severall churches , to which apostles were the guides , were a sinne of carnality ; ( as s. paul sayes it was ) what shall we say of some people of our times ? who instead of severall apostles to divide themselves by , doe chuse to themselves guides so meane , so unlearned , so liable to errour , that they perfectly make between them the picture of mistakes : the blinde leading the blinde , and both fallen into a ditch ? 't is not now , as 't was then . when some said , we are of paul , and when others said , we are of cephas , and when others said , we are of apollos ; others , we are of christ . though to make the names of christ , or paul , or cephas , names of fiction , was a sinne . but we are faln on times so made of separation , that people doe divide themselves by teachers , whose second trade is teaching . teachers so obscure , so bred to manuall occupations ; teachers so sprung up from the basest of the people . lastly , teachers , so accustomed to the trewell , forge , and anvill , that i almost blush to name them in the pulpit . 't is not now sa●d , we are of paul , and we are of apollos ; but we are of wat tyler ; we are of iacke cade ; we are of alexander the coporsmith ; we are of tom the mason ; and we are of dicke the gelder . and whether to divide and separate under such vulgar names as these , be no a sinne of the flesh , i leave to every one of you , who have read s. paul , to judge . and here , now , if time were not a winged thing , or if it would but stay my leisure , i might lay before you many other places of the scripture , which clearly doe demonstrate that separation is a sinne . for though , like the ghost of samuel , which you read of in the scripture , it usually appeare cloathed in the mantle of a prophet , though it were holinesse in the tongue , and precisenesse in the face ; yet to let you see what an apple of sodome it is ; how it lookes with a virgin check without , and is nought but rottennesse within , i shall once more desire y●u to heare what s. paul sayes of it , in the 5. chapter of the galatians at the 19. and 20. verses of that chapter , where he once more reckons it among the sinnes of the flesh . as for example , the works of the flesh are manifest , sayes he , which are these ▪ adulterie , fornication , vncleannesse , lasciviousnesse , idolatrie , witchcraft , hatred , variance , emulation , wrath , strife , seditions , haeresies , sayes our english ▪ translation . but the words in the originall greek , ( which are the true word of god ) will beare it thus . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that is , divisions , sects , envyings , murthers , drunkennesse , revellings , and such like . of the which i tell you before , sayes he , as i have told you in times past , th●t they which doe such things shall not inherit the kingdome of god . where you see seditions , sects , and schismes , as well as adulterie , and murther , are there listed by s. paul among those works of the flesh , which doe shut men out of heaven , and exclude them from salvation . many such like places of the scripture i might lay before you . but i will content my selfe with one argument more ; which shall not onely prove to you , that separation is a sinne ; but one of the greatest sinnes , of which christians can be guilty . to make this cleare to you , and beyond all dispute , or question . that which i will say to you ( and mark it well ) is this . 't is a rule in divinity , ( and t is a rule infallible ) that those sinnes are the greatest , which are most contrary , and doe most oppose the greatest christian vertues . now the three great christian vertues which doe make and constitute a christian , are set downe by s. paul , in the 13. chapter of his first epistle to the corinthians , at the last verse , where he sayes , now abideth faith , hope , and charity ; but the greatest of these is charity . thus , then , stands the case . distrust in gods promises , or an unbeliefe in his power , is a very great sinne . for 't is a sinne which doth oppose and quite cut off the wings of hope . haeresie , or the strife , and obstinate defence , and persisting in a knowne errour , is a farre greater sinne . for 't is a sinne against faith , a sinne which strives to draw a cloud about the beames of truth . but if it be true what s. paul sayes , ( as most certainly it is ) if it be true that charity is greater then either faith , or hope , then 't will follow by good logick and all the consequence of reason ; that that sinne which doth untie , and break the bond of peace ; that sinne which destroyes christian friendship , and communion ; lastly , that sinne which rends , and teares the cords of charity asunder , is a farre greater sinne then unbeliefe or haeresie . and the sin which doth all this is the sin of separation . first 't is a greater sinne in it selfe , and the very formality of the sinne . as being the worst extreme to the best , and greatest vertue , namely , the vertue of love ; by which christ would have his followers distinguisht from the rest of mankinds . for by this shall all men know , sayes he , that you are my disciples , if yee love one another . as you may read in the 13. chapter of iohn at the 35. verse . and agreeable to this is that which is delivered here in this text , where the authour of this epistle to the hebrewes sayes , let us consider one another to provoke one another to love . and not forsake the assembling of our selves together , as the manner of some is . and as schisme , or separation upon a slight , or needlesse ground is in it selfe one of the greatest sinnes ; so t is one of the greatest sinnes too , in its dangerous effects . besides the hatred , envy , strife , which it begets among men of divided interests , and mindes , t is many times the coale which sets whole states and common-wealths on fire . it pretends , indeed , very much to the spirit , and at first cloaths it selfe in the dresse of humility and meekn●sse ; but they who have written the chronicles of the church can tell you , that those pretences to the spirit have no sooner gathered strength , but they have proceeded to bloudy battells , and pitcht fields . where the meeke persons have throwne aside their bibles ; and have changed the sword of the spirit into the sword of warre . the proceedings of the donatists in affricke , and of the iohn-of leyden-men at munster are two sad examples of the truth of what i say . the grounds of separation examined . but here , perhaps , will some of you , who heare me this day , say , what 's all this to us ? in saying this which you have hitherto said , like those who wrote romances , you have but created an adversary out of your own fancy , and then foyl'd him ; or like the man in aristotle who drove his shaddow before him , you first frame a man of ayre , and then cry he flyes from you . but if this be to conquer , one of our gifted men who is at all no scholler , can as well triumph over men of ayre , and shaddowes , as your selfe . to let you see , therefore , that i am one of those , who desire not to fight duels with naked unarmed men , nor to meet any in the field , before we have agreed upon the just length of our weapons : if your patience will hold out so long , who come disinterested hither , this second part of this sermon shall be spent in the pursuit of that , which master deane of christ-church just now very seasonably noted as a defect in our present way of arguing , and dispute , which was , that the grounds were not examined upon which the present separations of these times , do build themselves . these grounds , therefore , i shall now in the next place call to some reckoning and account , and in the doing of this , i will hang up a payre of scales before you , you shall see their arguments placed in one scale , and my answers in the other : and because no moderatour sits in the chayre to judge ( which was a thing foreseen by me , but could not well be compast ) i shall make you the iudges who heare me this day . and because the rudenesse , and ill-language of those who have disturbed me in this pulpit , hath made me stand before you here like a man arraigned for errour , i will freely cast my selfe upon god , and you the countrey . thus , then , i shall proceede . here ( as i said before ) may some of the separating party , say to me , how doth the former part of your sermon concern us ? we separate , 't is true , but not on those false grounds which you have all this while described . we grant , indeed , that if we broke communion with you out of faction , or selfe-interest , or pride , or desire of gaine , or meere love of separation , you might well call us schismaticks ; and we should well deserve that name . but the ground on which we separate from you , is , because you are not fit to be assembled with , you are sinners ; wicked , lewd , profane , notorious sinners . the places where you meet breathe nothing but infection . your teachers preach false doctrine ; and your people practise lyes . in a word , we cannot with the safety of our conscience frequent your congregations . since to appeare there would be an enterprize as dangerous , as if we should make visits to a pest-house ▪ and there hope to scape the plague . this you will say ( good people ) is very hard language . and how , thinke you , do they prove it ? why , as they thinke by two cleare places of the scripture , which no man can oppose ▪ and not make warre with heaven . two places of scripture , i say , have beene produced , and quoted to me , like sampson and achilles , with invincible lances in their hands . places which doe not onely allow , but command a separation ; nay , they command it so fully , that if they should not separate , or forsake our congregations , they say they should sinne greatly , and disobey the scripture . and what are these two places ? the fi●st you shall finde set downe in the 5. last verses of the 6. chapter , of the second epistle of s. paul to the corinthians , where the words run thus . be ye not unequally yokt together with unbeleevers . for what fellowship hath righteousnesse with unrighteousnesse ? and what communion hath light with darknesse ? and what concord hath christ with belial ? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidell ? and what agreement hath the temple of god with idolls ? for ye are the temple of the living god ; * as god hath said , i will dwell in them , and walke in them ; and i will be their god , and they shall be my people . wherefore come out from among them , and be ye seperate , * saith the lord , and touch not the uncleane thing , and i will receive you . this is their first great place , which they urge for separation . will you now heare their second ? that you shall finde set downe in the 4. first verses of the 18. chapter of the revelations . where the words run thus , after these things , sayes s. iohn there , i saw another angel come downe from heaven , having great power ; and the earth was lightned with his glory . and he cryed mightily , with a strong voice , saying , babylon the great is fallen , is fallen , and is become the habitation of divells , and the hold of every foule spirit ; and the cage of every unclean , and hatefull bird . for all nations have drunke of the wine of the wrath of her fornications ; and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her . and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich , through the abundance of her delicacyes . and i heard another voyce from heaven , ( sayes he ) saying ; come out of her my people , that yee be not partakers of her sinnes , and that yee receive not of her plagues . these two places of scripture ( if you will heare me expresse my selfe in the thred-bare language of the times ) they say , doe hold forth themselves soe clearely , that i may sooner quench the sunne than finde an answer to them . nay , to deale freely with you , these two places , and these only are a piece of the challenge which hath occasioned this dispute . for i am promised by her , whom i here come to undeceive , that if i can answer these two places , she wil be my convert ; and will separate from these who doe now make separations . i take her at her word , and doe thus contrive , and shape my answers ; marke them i beseech you . as for the first place in the 6. chapter of the second epistle to the corinthians ; you are to understand , that when s. paul wrote that epistle , the city of corinth was not wholly converted to the faith , but was divided in religions , some were yet heathens , and sacrificed to 〈◊〉 : others did imbrace the gospell , and gave up their names to christ . n●verthelesse , th●y were not so divided in religions , but that dwelling together in the same city , certaine neighbourly civillities , and acts of kindnesse past between them . as for example , when a heathen or vnbeleever offerd a sacrifice to his idol , 't was usuall , for old acquaintance sake , to invite his christian friends to be guests to his sacrifice ; and to eate of his meate which was offered to his idol , as you may read , 1 cor. 10.27 , 28. and the place where the sacrifice was eaten , and where the feast was made , was , for the most part in the temple of the idol , as you may read , 1 cor. 8.10 . now , this mingling of religions ; this meeting of christians with heathens , at a heathen feast ; nay , at a feast where the meat was first offerd to an idol , nay in that idol was offered to the devils , as you may reade , 1 cor. 10.20 . nay , this meeting of christians with heathens at an idol sacrifice , and their eating with them of that sacrifice in the very temple of the idol , was a thing so dangerous , so apt to call weake christians back againe to their former idolatry , that saint paul thought it high time to say , be not thus unequally jokt with unbeleevers . in which expression he doth cast an eye upon that law of god , which you may read set downe in the 22 chapter of deuteronomye , at the 9 , 10 , 11. verses of that chapter . where god sayes , thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with diverse seeds ; nor shalt thou plough thy field with an oxe , and an asse yokt together ; nor shalt thou weare a garment of divers sorts , namely , of linnen , and woollen woven together in one piece . to the mysticall meaning of which law , s. paul here alludes , when he sayes , be not unequally yokt with vnbeleevers . for a christian mingling with a heathen , in a heathen congregation : nay , a christian mingling with a heathen in the temple of an idol , was a more disproportion'd sight , then to see an oxe yokt with an asse in the same plough ; or th●n to see corn sown with grapes in the same field ; or then to see wool mixt with linnen in the same garment . in a word , the idolatry of the heathens was so inconsistent with the religion of the christians , that s. paul proceeds , and sayes , that they might as well reconcile light to darkn●sse , or contrive a league betweene christ and belial ; or tye a marriage knot between righteousnesse and sinne , as make it hold in fitnesse ; that christians who are the temples of god , and of his holy spirit , should meer , and eate , and beare a part in the idol temples of the heathens . and these infidels , these heathens , who did not believe in christ ; these corinthians unconverted , these worshippers of idols , who strived to draw the christians back to their former superstitions , were they from whom s. paul bids his new converts separate themselves . come out from among them , and be ye separate , sayes he , at the 17. verse of that chapter . o , ( in the language of the place ) come out from among them , and be ye separate , saith the lord , and touch not the uncleane thing , and i will receive you . which words are but a string struck by the prophet * esay first , and spoken by him , of the separation of the iewes , from the then idolatryes of the heathens . and that this is the true interpretation of this place , will appeare to any who shall compare , what s. paul here sayes , with that which he sayes , in the 10. chapter of his first epistle to the co●inthians , from the 19. to the 30. verse of that chapter . this then , being so , let me aske the zealous persons , who thus delight in separation , are they from whom they separate such infidells , such heathens , such worshippers of idols , as s. paul doth here describe ? doe they see any gods of gold , erected in our temples ? or doe they see any images of silver adored , and sacrificed to by our congregations ? doe any of us make prayer ▪ to a stocke ? or doe any of us burne incense to a stone ? nay , l●t them ( if they please ) examine us by their private-meeting . catechisme . doe we not confesse the same god that they doe ? doe we not beleeve in the same iesus christ ? do we preach another gospel ? or hope to be saved by any other name but his ? are not our congregations built on the scripture-rock ? is not christ our corner stone , and his apostles our foundation ? doe we not agree with them in all things , but where they differ from the scripture ? as for example , we doe maintaine , and say , that separation is a sinne . they doe maintaine and say , that 't is a christian duty ; we urge that text which sayes , one lord , one faith , one baptisme ; they urge no text , which sayes , men must be twice baptised . we say , that if a child of god doe breake gods laws , a child of god sinnes . some of them say that god beholds no sinne in his children . lastly , we say of the scripture , as † s. peter said of s. pauls epistles ; that there be some things in seem , very hard to be understood , which they who are unlearned w●●st to their owne destruction . they say unlearned gifted me are the best expounders of the scripture ; what they meane by gifted men i will not here examine . but that which i will say is this , because we differ in opinions to divide themselves from us ; nay to apply such a reproachfull place of scripture to us , as makes us no better then infidels , and heathens , and worshippers of idols , is to revile us with the word of god , and to libell us with scripture . would they take it well , if we should apply to them that place which sayes ; woe to you , yee hypocrites , yee blind leaders of the blind ; you who strayne at gnats , and yet securely swallow camels ? would they take it well , if we should quote a place of scripture , and make it call them whited sepulchers ; which showe fayre and beautifull without , and hold nought but stinke , and rottennesse within ? againe , would they take it well if we should apply to them , that place which speakes of men , who have a forme of godlinesse , but deny the power thereof ? men , who like the old pharisees , with a long prayer in their mouth , creep into houses , and there leade captive silly women ? lastly , would they take it well if we should apply that place to them , which sayes ; that as iannes , and iambres withstood moses , so doe these men resi●t the truth ? men of corrupt mindes ; reprobate concerning the faith ? ( as 't is in the greek , and the margin of your bibles ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , men purblinde , voide of iudgement concerning the true knowledge of the faith ? if they would not take it well , why doe they not observe the rule of equity , and iustice , which is , to doe to us , but as they would have us doe to them ? but here perhaps , will some of you who heare me this day , say ; we doe not separate from you , because you are out-right unbeleevers , pagans , infidels , or heathens ; but because you weare the names of christians , and yet live the lives of heathens . though you doe not worship idols , yet there is covetousnesse among you , which s. paul calls † idolatry . and though you d●●●●●fesse christ , yet you walke disorderly ; and doe commit 〈◊〉 sinnes which they who denyed christ did . though we see no gods of gold nor silver in your temples , yet if we came there , we might see a congregation of such people as s. paul in other places bids us separate from . as for example , turne to the 3. chapter of his second epistle to the thessalonians , and the 6 verse . doth he not there command us in the name of the lord iesus to withdraw our selves from every brother , who walkes disorderly , and not according to the traditions which he taught ? or if this place be not cleare enough , turne to the 5. chapter of the first epistle of s. paul to the corinthians , and to the 11. verse , doth he not there say , that if any man that is called a brother , be a fornicatour , or covetous , or an idolater , or a rayler , or a drunkard , or an extortioner , with such a one we are not to keep company , no , not to eat ? i grant , indeed , s. paul sayes so , and doe think it very fit that s. paul should be obeyed . but how doth this prove that they are to forsake our congregations ? that there are such men among us , as s. paul doth there describe , is a truth too cleare to be denyed . but are our whole congregations composed of such men ? are all drunkards ? are all fornicatours ? are all raylers ? are all extortioners ? are all , both priests and people so like one another , that when they meete they make not a church . assembly , but a congregation of such sinners ? or are they onely some ? and they , perhaps , the lesser part who are guilty of those sinnes ? nay suppose they should be farre the greater part , who are guilty of these sinnes ; yet you know out * saviour christ compares the church to a field sowne with good seed ; but then he tells us too . that to the worlds end , among the good seed there shall still grow weeds , and tares . againe , in the 13. chapter of s. mathew at the 47. and 48. verses of that chapter , he compares the kingdome of god here in this world , to a net cast into the sea , which inclosed fishes of all sorts , bad as well as good . and what the meaning of this draught of mingled fishes is , i shall desire you to read at the 49. and 50. verses of that chapter , where he sayes ; that at the end of the world , and not till then , the angles shall go forth , and shall separate the wicked from among the iust : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , sayes the originall greek , they shall separate the wicked fro the midst of the iust , which clearely doth prove to us , that till this fi●all separation , in the church of god here on earth , there will alwayes be a mixture : to divide or separate , therefore , from the whole congregation , because some wicked men are in it , is a course so unreasonable , as if they should refuse a field of corne because there grew some weeds , or should renounce a field of wheat because it beares some tares . besides , i would faine know , how farre they will extend the meaning of that text , where s. paul sayes , that they are not to eat with a brother , who is a drunkard , or adulterer , or rayler , or extortioner . will they extend it to all sorts of persons who are such ? if they will , then if a woman have a drunkard to her husband , she must separate from him because he is a drunkard , if she doe not , every time she eats with him , she disobeyes s. paul ; and in every meals she makes with him she commits a scripture sinne . by the same reason also , if the sonne have a drunkard to his father , he must remove tables , and not dyet with his father . and so there will be one division more then those the scripture speakes of : for that onely tells us that the time shall come when the sonne shall be divided from the father , and the mother from the daughter . but if this interpretation be true , the wife must divide and break her selfe from her distemper'd husband too . nay give me leave to goe one step farther yet . if the sinnes of a part be a just sufficient ground to separate from the whole , why doe not they who separate , divide and fall assu●d●r ? for here let me ask them , and let me ask without offence ; are they all so innocent , so pure , so free , so voyd of sinne , that there is not one disorderly brother among them ? is their place of private meetings so much the new ierusalem , that no drunkard , no adulterer , nor rayler enters there ? i wish there did not , my brethren . we ministers should not then so oft be called dumb doggs , idol shepheards , limbs of antichrist , baals priests , by tongues , wich if s. iames say true , are set on fire of hell . if then , it be not the meaning of s. paul in that place , that we should separate from all because some of those all are wicked , upon what other just ground doe they break communion with us ? is it because we preach in churches ? they are gods house of prayer . made his by the piety , and devotion of our fathers , who if they lived now would hardly call them saints , who preferre a barne , nay a hog-stye before a consecrated temple . or is it because there is haeresie or superstition mixt with our once common forme of prayer ? if there had been , you see that scandall is removed . or doe we persecute , or force , or drive them from our congregations ? we are so farre from that , that you see , they are ready to require that our publick congregations , should stoope , and bow the knee to their private meetings . what other secret reason t is which thus divides them from us , i can by no meanes think , unlesse it be wrapt up in the mystery and cloud of the 18. chap. of the revelations , which is their other strong herculean place of scripture , which hath been urged to me to make good their separation . from which dark place of scripture when i have removed the veyle and curtaine , i will put a period , and conclusion to this sermon . t is there said , that s. iohn heard an angel proclaime aloud , and say , babylon the great is fallen , is fallen ; and is becometh habitation of divels , the hold of every uncleane spirit , and a cage of every uncleane , and hatefull bird ; as you may read at the 2. verse of that chapter . t is farther said , that he heard another voice from heaven , saying , come out of her my people , that yee be not partakers of her sinnes , and that ye receive not of her plagues . as you may read at the 4. verse of that chapter , where by babylon fallen , they understand the church of england fal●e . by the habitation of divels , the hold of foule spirits , and cage of uncleane birds . they understand our parish churches , and congregations which meet there ; which , they say , are so much a cage of uncleane birds , places so corrupt , so full of wickednesse , and sinne , that god , by his spirit , as it were , by a voice from the clouds , hath said unto them , come out of them , my people , divide your selves from them , lest ye be partakers of this sinnes , and go sharers in their plagues . this is , or must be that interpretation of that place ; or else 't will no way serve to uphold their separation . if , i say , by the habitation of divells , and cage of uncleane birds be not meant our church assemblyes , from which they doe divide , they doe but build a house of straw , and choose the sand for a foundation . i am sure i have been told that this was the very interpretation which the gentleman gave of this place ▪ who just now disputed with me , at a dispute which not long since he had with mr. gibson of chinner . but now will you heare my censure of this wilde interpretation ? take it then , thus . among the severall expounders of the revelation , i once met with one , who when he came to interpret the seven angels , which blew the seven trumpets . he said that by one of those angels was meant luther , by another queen elizabeth . and when he came to give the meaning of the locusts which ascended from the bottomelesse pit , with crowns on their heads , by the locusts , he understood schollers of the vniversitie ; and by the crownes on their heads , he understood square caps . methinkes , these kinde of people deale just so with this place of the revelation . they see strange visions in it which s. iohn never saw ; namely , th●y see babylon in our churches , and uncleane birds in our assemblyes . nay , though the divels being spirits are too invisible to be seen , yet , by the benefit of a new-light , they can see sights which no other eyes can see without being present in the place to which soul spirits do resort , ( as if they had borrowed one of galilaeo's glasses ) they can see divels take notes at our sermons . but whether in short-hand , or at length , s. iohn hath not revealed . pardon me , i beseech you , you who are of the more grave and nobler sort , that i am thus pleasant in the pulpit ; i am compelled to be so when i meet with people who deale with the scripture , as men of melancholly fancyes use to deale with the clouds . for as i have knowne some hypocondriack men , who have faigned to themselves flying horses , winged troops , and ships sayling in the aire ; nay , as i have knowne some , who , like the melancholly man , who thought himselfe a urinall , have thought they have seene two armyes in the skie ; and have mistaken clouds , and meteors for soldiers , trumpets , drums , and cannons ; so i do not wonder that our gifted , thinking people should so mistake the revelation as they doe ; or that they should see monsters in the scripture clouds . where the scripture is most cleare , they hardly understand it ; how then should they finde out the key to such da●ke prophecies as this ? but here may some man say to me , if they mistake this place , what 's your interpretation of it ? why , my interpretation is the very same which s. iohn himselfe delivers , rev. 14.8 . where the angel expresseth himself in the very same words . and sayes , babylon is fallen , is fallen ; that great city which made all nations drinke of the wine of the wrath of her abominations . and what was that great city ? why the city built on seven hills ; as 't is described in another place of the revelation . that great city which was the queen of nations ; namely , the city of rome , when 't was the seat of heathen emperours . lastly , that great city , which gave laws to all the world , to worship her false gods , and to partake of her idolatryes . and this was that great city , which s. iohn calls babylon ; either , because speaking of the fall and ruine of it , he thought it not safe to call it rome , or by its right and proper name ; lest , if he had done so , he might draw persecution on the christians . or els , because as babylon was the head city of the persian monarchy , so rome was then the head city of the roman . in a word , this is that great city , which was then the great court of idolatry ▪ the queen of superstitions ; and therefore , justly called by the angel which spoke to s. iohn , the habitation of divels , and cage of uncleane birds . and from this babylon , this rome , the then city of confusion , the angel of god bid the christians of those times to come forth , and separate themselves ; lest they should be partakers of her sins , and go sharers in her plagues . but to say as they do , that the church of england is that babylon the great ; or that our parish congregations from which they do divide themselves , are the habitation of divels , the hold of foule spirits , and cage of unclean birds here mentioned in this chap. is such a piece of ignorance , as well as zealous slander , that they will never be able to prove it , till they can make the capitol of rome stand in our london streets , or till they can make the river tiber run , where now our thames doth ; or till they can change the countries in our mapps , and make the mid-land sea flow on our english shore . and farther then this i will not trespasse on your patience ; or inlarge my selfe to prove to you that separation is a sin . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a50415e-170 jude 13. * levit. 26.11 . * esay 52.11 . * esay 52.11 . † 2 pet. 3.16 , † col. 3.5 . * mat. 13. jam. 3.6 . a sermon touching schisme, lately preached at st. maries in cambridge by r. i. watson ... watson, richard, 1612-1685. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a65268 of text r22989 in the english short title catalog (wing w1095). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 61 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 20 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a65268 wing w1095 estc r22989 12492472 ocm 12492472 62399 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a65268) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 62399) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 249:e128, no 9) a sermon touching schisme, lately preached at st. maries in cambridge by r. i. watson ... watson, richard, 1612-1685. [4], 35 p. printed by roger daniel ..., cambridge (england) : 1642. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng bible. -n.t. -ephesians iv, 2-3 -sermons. schism. a65268 r22989 (wing w1095). civilwar no a sermon touching schisme, lately preached at st. maries in cambridge, by ri. watson fellow of gonvile and cajus colledge. watson, richard 1642 11312 37 275 0 0 0 0 276 f the rate of 276 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2003-12 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 ben griffin sampled and proofread 2005-01 ben griffin text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon touching schisme , lately preached at st. maries in cambridge , by ri . watson fellow of gonvile and cajus colledge . romanes 16. 17 , 18. now i beseech you , brethren , mark them which cause divisions , and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . for they that are such serve not our lord jesus christ , but their own belly , and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the people . printed by roger daniel , printer to the universitie of cambridge . 1642. and are to be sold by william graves , book-seller in the regent-walk . to the worll . my very worthy friend , and much honoured patron , mr. richard camden . sir , saint augustine and divers reverend fathers of the primitive church , because there were many hereticks in their time , writ themselves and advised others of competent ability to write against heresie . we have alike reason in these our dayes , and , if the mouthes of our grave ecclesiasticall worthies could breath through the iniquity of the times , might from them too assuredly have alike encouragement to preach against schisme . my apprehension hereof first incited me to a rationall discussion , which at length concluded in this resolution , that my silence ( how inconsiderable soever ) should not intitle me to the least interest in betraying the church to either of her two homebred prevalent enemies , blind ignorance or obstinate malice . the successe which my endeavours herein found by this academicall performance ( if my friends tongues translated aright the language of their hearts ) being as beyond its desert , so , i truly and ingenuously confesse , beyond likewise either my expectation or hope , could be but a mean , if any incentive to this my farther publication of it ; whereby it may meet with a different character from that which their charitable impression at first afforded it . for i 'll not go about so to captivate the judgements of my candid auditours , as to chain them to their first conceiv'd opinion . i know the eye is a lamp which often lights the understanding to the discovery of some errours formerly lost in the labyrinth of the eare . things approv'd when heard may undergo a contrary most just , because more deliberate , censure in the reading . what motives soever i had ( such , it may be , as imposed rather a kind of necessity then gave me satisfaction ) i desire to conceal . the reason of my dedication to your self ( my many and great collegiate obligations engaging the choycest of my future endeavours in a higher discharge ) needs runne no hazard of your various conjecture , being my desire to imploy it as a thankfull acknowledgement of your first christian grace vouchsafed me at the font , seconded by your pious most carefull performance of that charge the church there gave you of my non-age , and still continued by your most frequent ample accumulation of favours , which shall hereafter upon the emergence of any farther occasion be most duly commemorated by your ever-obliged servant and dutifull godsonne , ri . watson . ephes. chap. 4. vers. 2 , & 3. with all humblenesse of mind , and meeknesse , with long-suffering , forbearing one another in love : endeavouring to keep the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace . pythagoras , that old samian philosopher , who ( as justine martyr records ) was wont to veil and disguise his opinions under dark speeches and mysticall symbols , having made unitie the originall of all things , and the cause of all good that is in the world ; the father takes not his words for his meaning , but under the allegoricall veil of that unitie discovers an undivided deitie : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , saith he in his cohortation to the grecians . as if that and god were so inseparably linked together , that the thought of man , although suggested but by the dictate of nature , could not possibly part them asunder . in like manner , s. paul in this chapter exhorting the ephesians to the endeavour of keeping the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace , after he hath told them , there is but one body , meaning of a catholick church howsoever dispersed over the whole earth ; but one spirit , of a god informing and giving life to every member thereof ; but one hope of their christian calling ( as if all this unitie were but to usher in a single deitie ) he concludes all with an {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , there is one god , vers. 6. yet before he gets up to this , he binds the ephesians in a bond of union with that triple cord , wherein their whole christianity was twisted , which could admit of no separation at all , unlesse they would seem to dissolve their profession : there is one lord , whom christians obey , and therefore no distraction by service , there is one faith , whereby they believe , and therefore no division by creeds ; there is one baptisme , whereby they get entrance into the church , and therefore no distinction by initiative grace . and these three are more peculiarly {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that trinitie of vnities , wherein god , by the ministery of s. paul , appears to his church , as it were in the shape of three angels , as once he did to abraham and sarah , to put her in mind of that conjugale foedus , that league of love between her and her husband , whereby she may fructifie and bring forth an isaac , a child of joy , peace , unity , and concord , wherein may all the earth be blessed . or , to speak plainly , they are a triple motive to that christian duty enjoyned in my text , a serious endeavour of preventing schisme , of preserving peace and unitie in the church . there is a two fold firmament , saith a reverend and learned prelate of our own , firmamentum coeli , & firmamentum ecclesiae ; one of heaven , and another of the church here upon earth . now as we reade in the history of the creation of two great luminaries ordained by god for the ornament and benefit of that , so saith he , is the like number appointed for the convenience of this : sol & luna , regnum & sacerdotium ; there the sunne and the moon , here the kingdome and the priesthood . and as for preserving the entire lustre of the moon is required a continuall influence of light from the sunne ; so likewise to maintain the sacerdotall dignity , a perpetuall emanation from the regall authority : nam ubi semel tollebatur sceptrum iudae , profanabatur & levi sacerdotium , when once juda's scepter 's departed , levi's priesthood 's presently profaned . and thus farre the parallel holdeth very well . in one thing it faileth , or rather exceedeth , that whereas the moon repayeth no tribute , nor ( for ought we know ) conferreth any thing to the ornament or benefit of the sunne ; here it is otherwise , where the regal rayes transmitted to the priesthood reflect on themselves , and ( beside that in the end they double the lustre of that glorious body from whence they proceeded ) contract such an influence in the reflection , as conduceth much ( if not to the being precisely taken , at least ) to the happy and well being of the same . wherefore these two , like eros and anteros in the fables of the poets , are sick or well both at a time . there is a double cause of their distemper ; rebellion in the one , and schisme in the other : which two too often engender , and endeavour to beget some strange monster , the seed of which must needs be the subversion of monarchicall government in the state , episcopall in the church . the later of the two , which is schisme in the church , is chiefly aym'd at in this place by s. paul : the prevention of that , the duty in the text , endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . there shall be some resemblance between my manner of handling these words , and the thing it self implied in the same . and therefore of them i will make no ominous division , which intend a happy and successefull union . nor will i deal much with them by themselves , but wind them into my discourse on the former in the second verse . wherein i shall follow aquinas his method , who , out of the connexion they have both together , hath well observed foure vices which concurre to the production of schisme , and foure opposite vertues , whereby it is easily crushed in the wombe , and becomes abortive . the first is pride , and to that is oppos'd humilitie , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with all humblenesse of mind . the second anger , and to that is opposed meeknesse , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with meeknesse . the third , impatience , to that patience , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with long-suffering . the fourth and last is inordinate zeal , the opposite vertue to which is not expressed , but implied , as he thinketh , in the subsequent words , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , supporting one another through love . of all these in their order . first of pride . what s. hierome said of hereticks , is very true of schismaticks , matrem habent iniquitatis suae superbiam , dum semper altiorase scire jactitant & in ecclesiae contumeliam debacchantur , they have pride the mother of their iniquity , while they alwayes boast of their transcendent knowledge , and rage to the contumelie and reproch of the church . which made irenaeus joyn them together , scindentes , & clatos , & sibi placentes , schismaticks , proud , and self-pleasing men . these are they , whose private opinions must stand in equipage with the determinations of generall councels , the unanimous consent of primitive traditions ; nay , the scripture it self must strike sail to their judgements , and admit of none but their vain glosses , and absurd interpretations . this for the doctrine . as for discipline , since they cannot by their double diligence find our mother the church so strait laced , as to be restrained to either precept or president ( i mean not in her episcopall government , which being established , as we suppose , by divine right , the whole army of their presbyteriall arguments will scarce be ever able to move , much lesse to evert ; but ) in prescribing ceremonies , things indifferent in themselves , and wholly left to her pious judgement in a legall synod to alter , increase , or diminish , according as the different circumstances , incident to her state and condition , may dictate convenient ; they feign to themselves a peculiar familiarity with god , as numa did with his goddesse egeria , and think the church is bound to believe them , and , out of a reverend esteem thereof , confine her practice to their prescriptions ; not one of which but they all hugge as close as ere ixion did his juno in the fable , being none of the true juno indeed , no goddesse descended from heaven , but a mere cloud of their depraved fancie and proud conceit . i have read of socrates , that when the oracle of apollo had pronounc'd him the wisest of men , though his reverence was such to his god , that he would not plainly give him the lye , yet was his modestie likewise such , and mean conceit of his own worth , that he would not take it in terminis to himself : and therefore indifferently to preserve both , he gave this reason of apollo's oracle , quòd hoc esset una omnis sapientia , non arbitrari se scire quod nesciat , because this was the onely wisdome ( and to this he could lay a most just claim ) not to suppose he knew that , whereof he was ignorant . i wish these men were of socrates his mind ; or if not of his , because an heathen , of devout anselm's , whose speech it was , quanto ampliùs quis superbiâ involvitur , tanto lucem veritatis minùs intuetur , the more a man is involv'd in pride and self-conceit , the lesse he beholdeth the light of truth : or if not of his , because a bishop , at least of our blessed apostle s. paul's , 1. cor. 8. if any man think that he knoweth any thing , he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know . surely then they would humble themselves and become obedient , laying the same ground to theirs as s. basil did to the obedience of his cloyster man , a perswasion of a possibility to learn from their superiour , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the knowledge of piety and sanctity , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , not asking the reason , but performing the duty of the command . for , as origen saith of the ecclesiasticall observations of his time , some such there are as must necessarily be practised by all , though the reason of their injunction be not clear to all . he instanceth in two : kneeling and turning to the east in prayer : nam quòd genua flectimus orantes , &c. for why we bend our knees in prayer , and turn from all corners of heaven to the east , non facilè cuiquam puto ratione compertum , i think not any one can easily render a reason : ( though for the later s. basil was of another mind , taking one out of scripture , which recordeth that paradise was planted in the east , and that we by that posture signifie we have respect to return to our old countrey : ) yet if they cannot be so satisfied , but a reason they must have , they should require it {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that is , decently and with due reverence , i make no question but they would have their answer . but if they will take no rationall answer , the church is then enforced to put them as hard a scruple in their own practice , and may justly silence them in our saviours words to the too too inquisitive scribes and elders , mark 11. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i tell you not by what authority i do these things . lastly therefore ( to conclude with the father ) they should not onely {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , be asking the question , and hearing what may be answered to the same ; but {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} too , be instructed thereby , and for the future satisfied . which rule if it were duly practised by all our homebred schismatical sectaries , i make no question but their irrationall prejudice against the present discipline would soon be removed , the desired union of the church restored , and many seditious practises in the state happily prevented . for as doctour covell , who had to deal with these men , writeth very well , that which in different opinions maketh contentions to cease , is when men are perswaded of their betters that they are not easily deceived , and of themselves that they may and do easily erre . and thus much concerning pride , the leading vice in the production of schisme , and humility , the vertue opposed by s. paul , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with all humblenesse of mind . the second is anger , to which meeknesse is opposed by the apostle , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with meeknesse . lactantius saith , anger is one of the three furies which the poets feigned . patricius tells us that discord which attends it is alecto by name , and gives us the morall of it : haec est discrepantia ac contentio illa , &c. this is that discord and contention , by which the ancient poets thought all things in the world to be dissolv'd and destroyed . it is such a furie as frights a man out of himself , and takes violent possession of the soul , putting all the faculties upon hot service : the understanding upon a misguided apprehension of every word and action , how generall soever , as maliciously intended to injure his particular person , or crosse his opinion : the will upon a tyrannicall resolution of revenge , to be terminated , if possible , no otherwhere then in the conceived authours destruction . and this , for the most part , the tongue must be the herald to proclaim , his own hands sometimes the instruments to execute . if that cannot be , then , as saint chrysostome saith , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , there 's most deadly feud , and warre without end . now what a convenient subject for schisme is this ? what bond of peace is like to hold him and the church together ? the unity whereof , aquinas tells us , consists in the connexion or communication of the members one with another ( and this gordian knot his fury will not afford him the patience at leisure to untie ; but the least thwarting word that proceeds out of another mans mouth puts a sword in his hand to cut it in pieces ) or in the order of all the members to one head , which if it dispose not of all according to his ambitious desires , we know then what noxious fumes the heat of his passion presently sends up to disturb the severall operations thereof , what solicitations presently ensue tending to a perfidious revolt , which discovers it self either in seditious tumults , and seditious fames ( which two differ no more then as brother and sister , masculine and feminine , whereas if they once become incestuous and engender together , prodigious is their off-spring , which can be christened with no better name then downright rebellion ) or else in the inconsiderate deniall of due and necessary nourishment to that chief part , the starving of which must needs be accompanied with the finall dissolution of all . for , alas , arms and legs will have much ado to perswade the soul to confine her self to their corrupt and rotten habitations , when once they have forced her out of her marble tower the head . she hath a better mind to be mounting upwards , to seek there {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , an habitation not made with hands , nay and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} too , an habitation never yet , not ever like to be , pull'd down and ruin'd by any such schismaticall rebellious hands , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , eternall in the heavens . now let a man consider with himself , when he is thus transported with passion , when his reason hath taken her flight , what a competent judge he is of any enormity committed by the church , which might move him to forsake the communion of it . mala lex peccati indignatio est , saith saint ambrose . indignation or wrath is but a bad law to reform sinne by . perturbat animum , it raiseth a cloud of dust in the mind , which may sooner put out then clear the eye-sight . me thinks a man in this case is as it were turn'd inside outward , so that whatsoever malice and rancour lyeth at the heart , whatsoever prejudice possesseth the brain , what ignorance soever might occasion both , is now exposed to the view of the world ; but in the mean time his eagle eyes , wherewith he should spie what is done abroad , are cloth'd in mists , involv'd in darknesse . which darknesse may be best dispell'd by a beam of that sunne which s. paul , the good intelligence , moveth to him , or him to that , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with meeknesse . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it is s. chrysostomes similitude ; as a beam of the sunne appearing soon chaseth darknesse , so a good and meek man soon turneth trouble and contention into peace and quietnesse . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , he makes musick of them ; so that then , if ever , empedocles his opinion may passe for currant , the soul 's an harmony . si commotionis hujus , quae ira dicitur , impetus retundatur , omnes hominum contentiones malae sopientur , saith lactantius . and so i passe to the third productive of schisme , impatience , which hath its opposite vertue set down by s. paul , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with long-suffering . and this is a vice of an ancient house , being that whereby the father of evil came to have his first claim to the kingdome of darknesse . insomuch as tertullian disdaineth , he tells us , to propound this quaere , whether the angel of perdition were first possessed of sinne or impatience ? or whether he hatched them not both of an egge , and cherished them in his bosome . palam cùm sit impatientiam cum malitia , aut malitiam ab impatientia esse auspicatam . to be sure he hath brought it up to his hand ever since , and imployed it as his chief and choicest instrument to disturb the peace and quiet of the church . whereby , as by anger , he first puts us out of possession of our souls ( for patience is our tenure , saith he that gave them us . in your patience possesse ye your souls , luke 21. ) and then out of possession of the church too , which is easily done ; that being no other then a spirituall building made up of our souls cemented with love , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} : so saint chrysostome . now that which makes men become so impatient is their tender conscience ( as they call it ) which cannot brook the least touch of authority commanding that , which , in their opinion , inclineth any way to innovation in the church . i said , in their opinion ; for well it were if they made not that the mistresse of their judgements , if they confin'd not themselves to that as the touchstone whereby to trie the antiquity of all the church-constitutions . they may find a farre better , if they please , in s. austines 119th . epistle to januarius , where he saith , omnia talia , quae neque sanctarum scripturarum autoritatibus continentur , &c. all such things as are not conteined in the authority of sacred scriptures , nor found decreed in the councels of bishops , nor confirmed by the practice of the catholick church , ubi facultas tribuitur , sine ulla dubitatione resecanda existimo , when power should be given , he thought all without doubt to be cut off and rejected . for the first of these , they like it very well , if themselves may be the onely interpreters . and herein their errour is the same with that which the father otherwhere discovered among some of his time . errant homines non servantes modum ; & cùm in unam partem procliviter ire coeperint , non respiciunt divinae autoritatis alia testimonia , quibus possint ab illa intentione revocari , & in ea quae ex utrisque temperata est veritate ac moderatione consistere : men , saith he , erre , keeping no mean , and when they begin to be propense toward one part never regard other testimonies of divine authority , whereby they may be recall'd from that inclination , and fix themselves in that truth and moderation which is made up by the due temperature of both . when they come to the second , they are so farre from admitting their canons , as instead of that they cry down their functions , scoff at their titles , accounting them ecclesiasticall solecismes , as buchanan their forefather did those honourable phrases of majestie , highnesse , and lordship , soloecism●s & barbarismos aulicos , mere solecismes and barbarismes of the court . tell them of the third , which was the practice of the catholick church , then all their theologicall knowledge is nothing but platonicall remembrance , extending no farther then their own memory , or the monuments of some few reformed divines , such , it may be , as were rather deformers , authours of schisme , and renouncers of our ecclesiasticall discipline in the first reformation . and this their impatience , when it hath made a panicall flesh-quake at their hearts , breaks out at their mouthes , like a storm which scatters the true church of christ , that chaff as they call it , so that it had better endured the fire . for i think i may use the words of s. austine against the letters of petilian the donatist , changing evangelium into ecclesia . quae mitiùs pertulit saevientium regum flammas , quàm vestras patitur linguas : the church better endured the flames of tyrants , then the tongues of schismaticks . nam illis incendentibus unitas mansit ; vobis loquentibus manere non potuit , for while they burned , unity remained ; but while these rail , the church must needs be divided . now let them make use of s. pauls remedie , walking worthy of their christian vocation , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with long-suffering , or patience . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , saith antiochus one of the lesser fathers , in long-suffering the lord doth inhabit , but the devil in impatience . he therefore that would have the spirit of god dwell within him , must himself keep the unity of that spirit , and continue with patience within the pale of the church . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , saith blessed ignatius ; lest any of you be found a desertour or run-away from the church . let baptisme be your armour , faith your helmet , love your spear ; but {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , patience capape , your whole armour of defence . he must not separate himself with korah , and tell moses and aaron they take too much upon them , or make themselves princes over the people . he must not murmure at moses his stay in the mount , and in the mean time cast in his eare-ring to the making up of a calf ; that is , he must not envy the leaders of the church their free accesse to kings and princes , those gods upon earth , dixi enim , dii estis , and that in their mounts , their erected thrones and stately palaces , and in the mean time contribute any trifling principle ( which it may be some presbyteriall divine hung at his eare at the last exercise ) towards the making up of a new imaginary discipline in the church . nay , i 'll go farther with him : if the church should set up a calf of her own ( as god forbid ) that is , be so farre corrupted , as to command the practice of idolatrous worship , that 's not sufficient to justifie schisme , or make good his desertion . here 's room still to make use of his passive obedience , though i advise not his active . he may , he must here suffer the punishment , whatsoever it is , to be inflicted for the omission , and be guilty of no commission at all . ( not that i would hereby stop the mouth of any reverend prelate , priest , or deacon , entrusted by god with the souls of the people , whose then unseasonable exemplary silence may be interpreted by the ignorant at least connivence , if not encouragement to communicate in the sinne . i think him bound to rebuke the same by what authority soever countenanced . ) but if his conscience yet be so farre mistaken , as to perswade him , that his not renouncing of an externall communion in things either indifferent or commendable , implies a guilt of positive communion in those corruptions which are absolutely sinfull , i pity his case , he is like a serpent between the shadow of the ash and the fire : but let me tell him , it is cooler being in one then the other , and therefore he must be a little more subtil then with her to skip into the heat of contention , the fire of schisme . flagitium schismatis constat gravius esse quàm scelus idololatriae ; it is manifest that the haynousnesse of schisme is farre greater then the wickednesse of idolatry , saith an ancient authour in his tractate concerning the unity of the church ; and he draws his reason from the difference of punishments allotted in scripture , to idolatry the sword ; to schisme , the strange opening of the earth and swallowing up korah with his contentious company . and thus much likewise concerning the third productive of schisme , together with its contrary vertue set down by s. paul , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with long-suffering . the fourth and last is inordinate zeal , the opposite vertue to which is not named , but implied in these words , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , supporting one another through love . and now we are got under the torrid zone of unruly passion , and illimited ambition : among such a nation , as he that walketh righteously and speaketh uprightly must be a cohabitant with devouring fire and dwell with everlasting burnings , contrary to that the prophet esay promiseth , esay 33. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , saith s. paul in his fourth chapter to the galatians . it is a good thing indeed to be zealously affected , but it must be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in a good matter . and not onely so , for the same apostle bears record of some who had the best of zeals , zelum dei , the zeal of god , and yet in them too there was somewhat wanting ; they had it , not secundùm scientiam , not according to knowledge . i will take a step into s. austines path , and adde a third possible defect , and that 's in the qualification or condition of the persons , according to which he observeth zeal to admit of a directly opposite specification in bonitate & malitia : and therefore he commends it as good in david the king , who saith of himself , the zeal of thy house hath eaten me up ; but on the other side condemnes it as bad and misbeseeming the commons , an ignorant multitude ( the arm of whose discretion and judgement was not able to wield a weapon of that size ) when it is said of them , zelus occupavit plebem ineruditam , zeal hath possessed an unlearned people . but to take it a while in its pure naturals , without those severall circumstances and different limitations , i reade it defin'd as abstracted in it self , desideriū vehemens , quo quis incitatur ea tollere , quae rei sibi dilectae videntur adversa , an earnest desire to take away such things as seem opposite to that which he loveth . now as there is nothing which should so swell up our souls with joy and delight , nor lodge in any corner of our hearts , as the love of god ; so can our zeal be imployed about nothing so well as the utter abolishing of that which either gives him a direct affront , and that 's idolatry ; or stops the free current of our service and due devotion , by intermixing the muddy inventions of weak brains , and vain curiosities , and that 's superstition . but this zeal , as good as it is , must be attended by three handmaids , to bear up his train , which according to gerson are benevolentia , discretio , & constantia ; else , saith he , it is like a two-edged sword in the hand of a mad-man , aut fulmini sine obice pervaganti , or like that kind of lightning , which makes way through all , and will admit of no opposition . upon the first of the three our apostle seemeth chiefly to reflect , the absence thereof being that which chiefly causeth the breach of union , the disturbance of the peace and quiet of the church . i should begin with this , but i must first give you a brief character of such persons as are fittest to be imployed in this businesse . s. austine grants them , whosoever they are , a large commission , fac quicquid potes , do what thou canst. but what ? presently set fire on the church ? no . frigidum fundit , he casts cold water to allay this heat . do it , but still pro persona , quam portas , onely according to that person which thou bearest . no mechanick put his profane hand to the pulling down of that most sacred and ever venerable episcopall function . tractet fabrilia . no women vent their impiety and ignorance in slandering it as an antichristian prelacie . let them be silent as in , so of , or concerning the church too . it was s. pauls advice , discant in silentio , not that they should teach but learn in silence . nay , non patiar , saith he ; i suffer not a woman to teach , 1. tim. 2. 12. and this argues the irrationall licentious practice of our times , wherein either sex and any profession crowds in a finger to the moulding of the design'd reformation ; and this , if not with publick toleration , if not without some contradiction , i am sure not with a due peremptory penall prohibition . nay , they must be leaders in the case , and teach the very captains themselves of the church militant their severall postures , prescribe them a form to muster their men . i have read of the ambassadours of the sarmatae , that attending valentinian the emperour of the west , and telling him , being basely clad , that they were prime men of that nation , he fell into such a passion for warring with so base a people , that he dyed suddenly . in like manner , i think , if religion in these dayes did but view the grandees of schisme in their mechanick habits , and seriously consider with what a ragged regiment of ignorance and impudence she hath had so long a continued encounter ; she would out of indignation desert us , and leave her golden crown to be at all adventure usurped either by insolent profanenesse , or blind atheisme . but to leave these bedlams at length to be well lashed by their own too impetuous spirits , and to be as good as my word , i think we are bound by the doctrine of our church to surrender the first place of composing differences , and zealous reforming what abuses soever are crept into it , to him whom we acknowledge her head , and that 's the king . and good reason too : for that is true as well in church as state , which salust in tacitus suggested to livia , eam conditionem esse imperandi , ut non aliter ratio constet , quàm si uni reddatur . or more properly that which followes soon after , non aliud discordantis patri●e , ( we 'll make it ecclesiae ) remedium esse , quàm ut ab uno regeretur . whom , as the anointed of the lord , howsoever we acknowledge to have a more then ordinary influence and speciall assistance of the spirit of god ; yet being not bound ( so farre as we know ) to take away infallibility from the chair , and chain it to the throne , nor to give it a crown instead of a mitre ; we find it most consonant to reason , and correspondent to the perpetuall practice of the primitive times , as also to that of all such christian churches , as still retein the true ancient doctrine and discipline , that he assume to him the counsel of his bishops and clergie , who , if so qualified as their places require , may be presumed the fittest men to moderate zeal , to compose all different opinions , and to pick truth out of partiality . not to trouble you with various quotations out of severall fathers , i will onely fetch you one from the head , and that 's blessed ignatius , who speaks to our purpose , in asserting , that whosoever doth any thing without the bishop and his presbyterie , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , such an one hath his conscience defiled , and is worse then an infidel . but lest you should think the prince in this case a priviledg'd person , he otherwhere inverts our order , and hath his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , let caesar himself be ruled by the perswasion of his bishop . now the former of these seems to be grounded upon s. pauls rule , who would have zeal to be regulated according to knowledge . for , to speak the truth , if the clergie be once excluded this businesse , and lay-men ( who by reason of their severall avocations are for the most part forced to take up their theologicall principles i wish i could say but at the second or third hand ) must have the perpetuall patent of this concurrent judiciall imployment ; if ignorance chance to incorporate with authority , and both grow up strong and stout in time , it may well be feared in the future age divinity must be fetched within the sphere of their apprehensions , conjur'd within the circle of some politick law , and the maintainers of what truth soever ( if either mistaken by them , or not taken at all , as being too profound and out of their reach ) may chance to be dashed out of all their preferment by the seeming force of some old decrepit statute , if not blown away by the violent breath of some zealous patriot , and lay ill-affected arbiter . and thus much shall serve to have been spoken of the persons , whom i conceive the fittest to handle zeal , and to reform any exorbitancie of the church . as touching the three attendants thereof , which i had out of gerson ; the first of them was benevolentia , which i 'll interpret good will or christian charity towards our brethren . and this should be shewed either in preserving their credits , or bearing with their perverse manners , supportantes invicem , supporting one another , ut alter alterius mores fer at licet rusticos , licèt asperos , licèt petulantes , &c. saith one on the place . or lastly in admitting a charitable judgement of their errours , though untrue , as much more pleasing to almighty god then a true judgement , if it be uncharitable . whereof how farre short come the writing and preaching zelots of these our dayes ? whom i have often observed ( as in their pamphlets , so likewise in their pulpit invectives ) to gain ground on popular minds , and to give a little life to those deformed pictures they make of such men as to whose doctrines they will not conform themselves , that they obliquely draw a dark shadow of their impure conversations ; and no diversity of opinion but must be attended by some notable irregularity in manners . i confesse those men upon whom this is justly charged ( if any such there are ) as they cannot expect to be anywhere excused , so much lesse to have an advocate in this sacred place . but i pray god themselves be blamelesse that blame others . indeed those men at whom they glance , have not got the trick to do it in the dark , but too ingenuously think the world will be as charitably affected to them , as they are to the world . this i 'll say , which i confidently presume , that were they not so bated and worried for their opinions , which they think in their conscience they may well justifie , and thereby driven as to a desperate neglect of their studies , so likewise to a lesse strict guard of their lives , they would be somewhat more regular in their actions , which upon serious recollection and pious meditation it is likely in their reasons they condemne and vilifie . nor doth this their uncharitable zeal extend it self onely to some few particular persons , but encircleth no lesse then the whole church , themselves exempted : upon which , instead of praising god for the first happy conversion of this nation to christian religion ; for that , wherein they think themselves have the onely interest , an after-reformation from blind superstition ; they daily cast the foul-mouth'd calumny and undeserved aspersion of pelagianisme , and whatsoever other wretched heresie they find condemned by the catholick church in her sacred records , and venerable antiquity , which they neither search nor care for but when it may furnish them with a few bare names , such as they may cast like dirt in the face of those worthy men , who drop better divinity in their daily discourse with every crumb that falls from their tables , then these men do in their large distributions of the bread of the word , as they too often emphatically causlesly term it . so that what palemon proudly professed of learning , they arrogantly conceit of religion . qui secum natas , secúmque interituras affirmare audebat literas : they think it all shipped in one bottome , and that 's the rotten one of their own framing . the ground of which is a strange assurance they challenge to themselves of a more then ordinary peculiar assistance of the spirit , outstripping s. paul ( though an apostle , and none of the meanest neither ) who went no farther then his puto autem , i think also i have the spirit of god . for howsoever a lapide out of s. austines 37. tractate upon s. john , will have this {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} non dubitantis esse , sed asseverantis & increpantis : i rather think ( under correction ) it argues s. pauls modestie , who would not magisterially professe it , and ring nothing but reprobation in the ears of them that would not readily acknowledge it . i judge none , yet i suspect some instead of having that holy spirit , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that leading and true spirit , have {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , a deceitfull spirit , seducing the people , as s. ignatlus said of the false prophets and apostles of old . but whatsoever spirit they have , this their confidence inflames their zeal , and puts them upon those violent ( but most impotent ) expressions of let us preach down , pray down , nay sometimes they 'll venture at dispute down too whatsoever is got above their intellectuals , when indeed they do nothing but talk down all : when alas they are not so forward in the two former , but they are twice as backward in the last ; in all having a self-deniall , as they call it , that is indeed a deniall of all what themselves should be , i mean discursive and rationall as men , learned as scholars , and ( which is worth all ) truly devout as christians . whereas in their prayers they have oftentimes most uncharible , if not schismaticall devotion , bold ignorance in their sermons , and , instead of solid reasons , a few new-invented canting distinctions in all their disputations , calculated for the climate of their exotike divinity , and endeavoured to be obtruded upon our church in the place of better , such as might safely be selected out of the school , or de medio montium , as peter lombard speaketh , meaning the ancient fathers and reverend antiquity . so that what alexander borgia was wont to say of the expedition of the french into naples , that they came with chaulk in their hands to mark out their lodgings , and not with weapons to fight for them , may be said of these men in their great undertaking and zealous promoting a new reformation . they mark out their conclusions whereon they may rest , without producing any rationall premises which may force an assent . if i have digressed a little too farre from my text , i may the rather presume of a pardon , having been in the pursuit of such men as usually runne a great deal farther from theirs , and of whom , for all my hast , i have much ado to get perfect sight . i was moved thereto by the equity of the cause , heretofore ( as i thought ) injur'd by the silence of some worthy men , whose eminent abilities might have better encouraged them to have been as well speaking abettours of truth , as their abundant charity made them silent affectours of unseasonable peace . i passe now to the second attendant of zeal , and that 's discretion . which , if we look at the propriety of the word , according to those different significations that it frequently admits of , implies a distinct separation of one thing from another , an exact view and judgement of the same . for cernimus animo , videmus naturâ , aspicimus ex improviso , said fronto , who pretended to be an indifferent arbiter and equall dispencer of dues to words . and quotcunque senatus creverit for judicaverit , it is thought the romane oratour said , that perpetuall dictatour of the latine tongue . and indeed whether cerno be not {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} a little metamorphiz'd , discerno {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} i desire the criticks at their leisure to inform us . no discretion thus taken disables those person or dealing with zeal , whose weak capacities are overcast with such a cloud of ignorance as intercepteth their view , and blunteth the point of the brightest ray their understanding sends forth to discover any errour of the church . as also those whose judgements , howsoever mounted higher , and raised above this misty region , are seated upon such a dangerous precipice , that their first conception , their first apprehension , fixeth not there , but rowls down to their mouthes , and breaks forth in a clamourous storm of passion , if it fall not lower to their arms and hands , and vent it self thence in a bloudy tyrannicall persecution . for the first of which there is none of us all but may find a shelter , tulingua , ego aurium sum dominus . but if it once come to the second , as if they were following the sent of a fresh victory , nec temperari facilè nec reprimi potest stricti ensis ira , the last step of their power is the first of their mercy . s. austine sets them a better rule , proposeth himself as a better president , faciat certè quod me non fecisse succensuit , said he of a bishop , to whom he had written an harsh epistle , but received an answer in more bitter language . so these men , who when time serves can sufficiently complain of hard usage , and brand the due ecclesiasticall censure of obstinate schisme ( i may say heresie ) with that scandalous undeserved name persecution , should do well to mete out their own words with the measure of indifference , and when themselves come to be actours , putting judgement or discretion in one s●ale , and power in the other , make even weight without a grain of affection depressing either . divide , & impera , you know who said it , and we have too many that follow that counsel in the worst sense , who might , if they pleased , make use of it in a better . let them use this {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , this moderate discretion , this judicious division ; ità dividant , & tum imperent : let them thus divide , and then let them talk of taking the dominion and command of the church . but if they will rashly huddle up all together , and not admitting the least check of a sedate judgement , publish onely the impetuous dictates of their indiscreet and too precipitant fancie , either yielding nothing , or suffering a licentious practice of all things ; we must put them in mind of that state maxime , which is too often made good by the ruine of a church , periculosa severitas , flagitiosa largitio , seu nihil militi , seu omnia concederentur in ancipiti republica ; i will english it thus , dangerous is that severity , impious that bounty , where to a christian militant either all things are granted , or nothing permitted in the doubtfull and distracted condition of a church . and thus much of discretion , zeals second handmaid . the third is constancy . and of this but a word . and some may think a word superfluous too , considering the firm immovable resolution of our obstinate zelots , who will part with all , their obedience to the civil and ecclesiasticall magistrate , their charity due to their christian brethren , rather then one whit of their fancie and fond opinion . therein following too near at the heels their valiant captain reformer knox , who resolutely , but rebelliously , writ to the queen regent of scots in the behalf of himself and the holy brethren , that without the reformation which they desired , they would never be subject to any mortall man . and martin luther , how eminent soever , was in this case a little too obstinate , when being upon his death-bed requested by philip melanchthon to draw near a concord as touching the difference about the eucharist , utterly refus'd it , ídque hanc ob causam , sicuti illum dixisse aiunt , nè ex eo tota doctrina in dubium vocaretur ; and that for this cause , lest his whole doctrine should be brought into question . these zelots , as if they were the oracles of the world , or at least in some speciall manner inspired ( as indeed they p●etend ) do in effect thrust the pope out of his magisteriall chair of infallibility , to the end that they may sit in it themselves . but alas this pertinacious adherence to ungrounded principles is but the feigned model of constancy , the foundation whereof must be right reason , no fond opinion , quae non aliud quàm rationis vana imago & umbra , saith one ; the ground-work humility , the main pillar impartiall integrity , and the whole prospect towards the even plains and champian of truth , without the least loop-hole to any by-respect or sinister intention . now as obstinacy is to be declined on one hand , so must likewise levity on the other . wherein howsoever they conceit themselves to have but little if any interest at all , yet if we pull off that false vizard wherein their zeal too often personates , ( i mean their pretence of scriptures authority for all their new started divinity ) we shall find it otherwise , and that they at their pleasure can fix on the same an unparallel'd non-presidentiall interpretation to usher in any new devis'd opinion . nor is this caution onely personall , but best befits such synods or convents as assume to themselves a power of religion , of drawing up a form of any ecclesiasticall reformation . for ( not to flatter our selves nor them ) if they sometimes will be enacting or articling , at others , without due consideration , repealing and nullifying , every man cannot make a weather-cock of his conscience , to be blown about through all the rumbes of religions card by the confused violent blasts of such successive dissonant assemblies . and thus at length have i done with that last productive of schisme , inordinate zeal , the opposite vertue to which is not named , but implied in these words , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , supporting one another through love . if i should now enter on the duty by it self , and draw it off from the lees of my former discourse , i might find matter sufficient to double the time allotted for this businesse . i will give you onely a touch of the chief observables , and so conclude . the first shall be from the first word thereof , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , endeavouring . which shews how one unity is prerequired to the inducement or conservation of the other . first a conjunction of every mans powers and faculties in himself , composing one individuall inclination ; and then a concurring with others to a generall union of wills and affection . ( for pax hoc in loco est voluntatum unio , saith catharinus on the place . ) and therefore s. cyprian renders it well , satis agentes , as if it would sufficiently busie , and take up no lesse then the whole man to do it to the purpose . secondly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , endeavouring to keep . for it is not sufficient to search it out with some pains when we are at a losse for it , but we must keep it with the like when once we have found it . nec sufficit eam quaerere , saith s. hierome , nisi inventam fugientémque omni studio persequamur . it is with this great part of the kingdome of grace , as our most reverend and pious prelate worthily terms this unity of the spirit , as it is with civil states and dominions , iisdem artibus , quibus parta sunt , facilè retinentur . labour in getting , and no lesse labour and endeavour in keeping . thirdly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the unity of the spirit . nor is it every spirit that will serve the turn : for there are many that keep the unity of a spirit to a contrary purpose . such were those prophets whom ezekiel speaks of , foolish prophets , against whom he denounceth a wo . vae prophetis qui ambulant post spiritum suum , wo to those prophets who walk after a spirit of their own . and they keep it in the bond of peace too . for as plato said of injustice , that without justice it could not stand ; the like say i of schisme and division , it is impossible for it to subsist without union . s. hilarie thought that term too good for it , and call'd it by a worse name , combination , because that unity is in faith and subjection , but combination is consortiū factionis , consenting in faction . it must therefore be no unity of any such spirit , but {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , with an emphasis on the article , of that spirit indeed . the fruit whereof is love , joy , peace , long-suffering , gentlenesse , goodnesse , faith , meeknesse , temperance , a goodly train of christian vertues , gal. 5. 22. that spirit which before it came down to the church upon earth had concurred to the like good mysterious work above in heaven , making an exact unity of the blessed trinity . for as s. austine saith , societas est quodammodo patris & filii ipse spiritus sanctus . we have two other presidents for this godly union from the two other persons of the blessed trinity . from god the father first in mans creation , who made him one , to the intent that we all knowing we came from one , should love as one . vt dum cognoscerent se ab uno esse omnes se quasi unum amarent , saith the master of the sentences . from god the sonne next in mans redemption , who ( as s. hierome observes ) would not suffer when the priesthood was entirely in one , but under two , annas and caiaphas , vt religionis corum scissum monstraret errorem , that he might shew their errour of schisme in religion . fourthly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in the bond of peace . first in peace . men are commonly very observant and carefull of preserving the least relique left them by a deceased beloved friend , especially if he bestowed it on them with his own hand about the time of his departure . our saviour our christ deserveth surely as much at our hands as to have his peace carefully kept by all such as pretend the preserving any the least memoriall of him , it being the last legacy he left to his church ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , b. mountague tells us s. basil calls it , his farewell gift ; i 'm sure he calls it {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , a largesse dropt frō a higher world , worth the keeping . peace i leave with you , my peace i give unto you , john 14. 27. he gave them peace , promis'd them knowledge , but that was to be sent after his ascension . the holy ghost , whom the father will send in my name , shall teach you all things . as if peace and love were to have the precedence , the first place in the heart of man . the onely order observed in heaven , where the first place or degree is given to the angels of love , which are termed seraphin ; the next to the angels of light , which are termed cherubin . first love , and then illumination . but our enthusiasts invert the order . they will have first light , and that of revelation ; then love , and that but to such as will come off to their own faction . secondly , in the bond of peace . s. anselme saith , this bond of peace is an externall profession of peace and concord , which is quasi vinculum & nexus interioris unitatis spiritûs . i like it well if he means a united conformity and conjunction in the outward service of god . you know when we go about to bind up things close together , we usually lay them in the same posture , not some doubled , others at length , but all having a due correspondence one to another . and thus it is in ecclesia fasciculo . if in our outward religious performance and worship of god , some be kneeling , others standing , a third sort , in a worse posture by farre , uncivilly sitting ; it will be a hard matter to bind them so close together , but some will drop out of the bundle of the church . i will use another familiar similitude with your leave : when we bind up a bundle , we lay not the parcels at any great distance , but as close and near one another as may be . and therefore if we be at a distance one frō another , come not to serve our god together , but while there is a congregation in the church , there 's a conventicle in a chamber , a meeting in a barn , and a ring too it may be in the fields or woods ; it 's a hard matter to bind al these together , the bond i fear wil be somewhat too short , and we had need have a little to spare to make a knot that it may be the surer . for charitas nodo vnitatis astringit , saith s. austine , it is the knot that does it : if unity have no knot it is easily dissolved . therefore the ancient english ( who were better united as in their affections , so likewise in their devout congregations ) called this holy service of god most significantly eanfastnes , as being the onely fast binder of the members of the church , religiosae vinculum pacis , the onely bond of a religious peace . s. chrysostome observeth three things that unty this knot , unbind this bond of unity in the church . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the love of riches . the love of rule and sup●riority . the love of glory , that is popularity . i need not shew you how all these have conspir'd together to unty out knot of christian charity , produc'd an unhappy schisme in the church . the case is clear . what else mean those whispers of some grand plotting , and a strange mysterious working to commit sacriledge , to rob the church of her poore patrimony , if not that which god himself hath given her , at least that wherein many ages since his saints and servants out of their ture working piety have enstated her ? what else those loud aspiring cries of down with episcopacy ? vp with a presbyteriall superintendency ? what lastly means that truly mounting-lecture-language , and most irreligious pulpit imposture , whereby too many , when they have once drawn the yielding hearts of weak people into those open and unfenced fortresses of their ears , there chain them to their own motions . thus leading captive to their own vain-glorious ( though but low-descended ) spirits not onely silly women , but men too laden with sinnes , and led away with divers lusts ? it is time for me now to have done with my text , and ease you of your trouble . i will onely out of charity adde a triple rule for those either malitious or mistaken souls , against whom my whole discourse hath been intended , whereby they may be happily reduced , and with them the unity of the spirit restored . and that 's , in brief , first by reason rightly weighed ; secondly , by scripture rightly interpreted ; thirdly , by the constitutions and canons of the church to that purpose rightly assembled . to which three if they deny to submit , much good do them with s. austines character , in whose opinion they are no other then mad-men , infidels and schismaticks . for saith he , contra rationem nemo sobrius , contra scripturas nemo christianus , contra ecclesiam nemo pacisicus senserit . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a65268e-250 〈…〉 ad o●ig . eccl 6. ●om in ho●● . 5 advers. haer. lib. 4. c. 43. lib. d● simil● . c. 98. con●●it . monastic● . 19. in numer . c. 4 hom. 5. de spir. s. c. 27. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. modest and reasonable examination , &c. chap. 5 de ver. cult. . c. 19. de regno & reg. in●t●● . l. 4. tu . 10. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . 22. q 39. a. ● . c. offic. l. 1. c. 21. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ▪ lib. de ver. cult. . c. 5. lib. de patient . l●b. de f●d . & op●● . ep. dedic. iacob . 6. reg. scot . ante dial. de iure regni apud sco●o●s . hom. 110. ep ad poly●●p . episc. s●●in . veneric vercellens . ut putatur lib. de unit. eccles. conserv . p. ● . rom. 10. 2. lib. 20. de civ. dei ▪ 12. gerson , part . 3. de consol. theolog. l. 3. expos. in evang. ioan. tractat. 10. annil . lib. 1. ep. 2. ad trallian . fp. 6. ad philadelph . corn . à lapid. chilling● . 1. cor. 7. 40. ●● . 6. a● philadelph . s●nt . l. 2. 〈◊〉 16. de 〈◊〉 . epist. 111. corn . tacit. a●nal . l. 1. i. armin. declar. sent. ad d. d. ordin. holland . & 〈◊〉 . lips. de constant . li . 1. c. 5. ad res●● . m●nach . ezek. 13. 3. enar. in ps. 140. de verb. dom in evang. matt. serm. 11. com . in e●ech . apparat. 2. in loc. prolog. ad tract. 1. de doctr. chi●st . camden re●● {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ●ib . 4. de tr●n . ● . 6. a tract concerning schism and schismatiqves wherein is briefly discovered the originall causes of all schisme / written by a learned and judicious divine ; together with certain animadversions upon some passages thereof. hales, john, 1584-1656. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a44476 of text r2860 in the english short title catalog (wing h278). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 67 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a44476 wing h278 estc r2860 12630457 ocm 12630457 64736 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a44476) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 64736) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 251:e143, no 22) a tract concerning schism and schismatiqves wherein is briefly discovered the originall causes of all schisme / written by a learned and judicious divine ; together with certain animadversions upon some passages thereof. hales, john, 1584-1656. page, william, 1590-1663. [2], 33 p. printed by leonard lichfield for edward forrest, oxford : 1642. "the animadversions which are the raison d'être of this issue were, according to wood, by dr. william page." cf. madan, oxford books. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng church of england -history -sources. heresy -early works to 1800. schism -early works to 1800. a44476 r2860 (wing h278). civilwar no a tract concerning schisme and schismatiques. wherein, is briefly discovered the originall causes of all schisme. written by a learned and j hales, john 1642 12477 4 25 0 0 0 0 23 c the rate of 23 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 ben griffin sampled and proofread 2004-12 ben griffin text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a tract concerning schisme and schismatiqves . wherein , is briefly discovered the originall causes of all schisme . written by a learned and judicious divine . together , with certain animadversions upon some passages thereof . oxford , printed by leonard lichfield for edward forrest . 1642. a tract concerning schisme . heresie and schisme as they are commonly used , are two theologicall scar crows , with which they , who uphold a party in religion , vse to fright away such , as making enquiry into it , are ready to relinquish and oppose it , if it appeare either erronious or suspitious ; for as plutarch reports of a painter , who having unskilfully painted a cock , chased away all cocks and hens , that so the imperfection of his art might not appeare by comparison with nature ; so men , willing for ends to admit of no fancy but their own , endeavour to hinder all enquiry into it , by way of comparison of somewhat with it , peradventure truer , that so the deformity of their own , might not appeare : but howsoever in the common manage , heresie and schisme are but ridiculous tearmes , yet the things in themselves are of very considerable moment , the one offending against truth , the other against charity , and therefore both deadly , when they are not by imputation , but in deed . it is then a matter of no small importance , truely to descry the nature of them , that so they may feare who are guilty of them , and they on the contrary strengthen themselves , who , through the iniquity of men and times , are injuriously charged with them . schisme ( for of heresie we shall not now treat , except it be by accident , and that by occasion of a generall mistake , spread through all the writings of the ancients , in which their names are familiarly confounded ) schisme , i say , upon the very sound of the word imports division , division is not but where communion is or ought to be : now communion is the strength and ground of all society , whether sacred or civill ; whosoever therefore they be , that offend against this common society and friendlinesse of men , if it be in civill occasions , are guilty of sedition or rebellion ; if it be by reason of ecclesiasticall difference , they are guilty of schisme : so that schisme is an ecclesiasticall sedition , as sedition is a lay schisme , yet the great benefit of communion notwithstanding , in regard of divers distempers men are subject to , dissention and disunion are often necessary ; for when either false or uncertain conclusions are obtruded for truth , and acts either unlawfull , or ministring just scruple are required of us to be perform'd , in these cases , consent were conspiracy , and open contestation is not faction or schisme , but due christian animosity . for the opening therefore of the nature of schisme , something must be added by way of difference , to distinguish it from necessary separation , and that is , that the cause upon which division is attempted , proceed not from passion , or from distemper , or from ambition , or avatice , or such other ends , as humane folly is apt to pursue , but from well weighed and necessary reasons , and that when all other means having been tryed , nothing will serve to save us from guilt of conscience , but open separation ; so that schisme , if we would define it , is nothing else but an unnecessary separation of christians from that part of the visible church , of which they were once members ; now as in mutinies and civill dissentions , there are two attendants in ordinary belonging unto them : one , the choyse of an elector or guide , in place of the generall or ordinary governor , to rule and guide , the other the appointing of some publique place , or randevous , where publike meetings must be celebrated . so in church dissentions and quarrells , two appurtenances there are , which serve to make schisme compleat . first , in the choyce of a bishop , in opposition to the former , ( a thing very frequent amongst the ancients , and which many times was the cause and effect of schisme . ) secondly , the erecting of a new church and oratory , for the dividing parts to meet in publiquely . for till this be done , the schisme is but yet in the wombe . in that late famous controversy in holland , de pradestinatione & auxiliis , as long as the disagreeing parties went no farther then disputes and pen-combats , the schisme was all that while unhatched ; but as soon as one party swept an old cloyster , and by a pretty art suddenly made it a church , by putting a new pulpit in it , for the separating party there to meet ; now what before was a controversy , became a formall schisme . to know no more then this , if you take it to be true , had been enough to direct how you are to judge , and what to think of schisme and schismatiques , yet because of the ancients , ( by whom many are more affrighted then hurt ) much is said and many fearefull doomes are pronounced in this case , we will descend a little to consider of schisme , as it were by way of story , and that partly farther to open that , which we have said in generall by instancing in particulars , and partly to disabuse those , who reverencing antiquity more then needs , have suffered themselves to be scared with imputation of schisme above due measure , for what the ancients speake by way of censure of schisme in generall is most true , for they saw ( and it is no great matter to see so much ) that unadvised and open fancy to break the knot of union , betwixt man and man ( especially amongst christians , upon whom above all other kind of men , the tye of love and communion doth most especially rest ) was a crime hardly pardonable , and that nothing absolves men from the guilt of it , but true and unpretended conscience , yet when they came to pronounce of schisme in particular , ( whether it was because of their own interest , or that they saw not the truth , or for what other cause god only doth know ) their judgements many times ( to speak most gently ) are justly to be suspected , which that you may see , we will range all schisme into two rankes . first , there is a schisme , in which only one party is the schismatique : for where cause of schisme is necessary , there not he that separates , but he that is the cause of separation is the schismatique . secondly , there is a schisme in which both parties are the schismatiques , for where the occasion of separation is unnecessary , neither side can be excused from guilt of schisme . but you will aske , who shall be judge , what is necessary ? indeed it is a question which hath been often made , but i think scarcely ever truly answered , not because it is a point of great depth or difficulty truly to assoyle it , but because the true solution of it , carries fire in the taile of it ( for it bringeth with it a piece of doctrine , which is seldome pleasing to superiors ) to you for the present , this shall suffice , if so be you be animo defaecato , if you have cleared your selfe from froath and grownes , if neither sloath nor feare , nor ambition , nor any tempting spirit of that nature abuse you ( for these and such as these are the true impediments , why both that and other questions of the like danger are not truly answered ) if all this be , and yet you know not how to frame your resolution , and settle your selfe for that doubt ; i will say no more of you , then was said of papias s. iohns own schollar , your abilities are not so good as i presumed . animadversion . this tract , i must confesse , is handsomly and acutely penned , and many things in it well worthy our observation . yet because i greatly honour antiquity , and highly reverence the holy fathers of the church , i must crave pardon , if i deale plainly , and roundly with the author thereof , who in some passages ( as i conceive ) doth two much neglect antiquity , and indeed all authority . for first , in that he saith , the fathers generally mistake in confounding these names of heresies and schisme , they doe not mistake them , but commonly distinguish them , or it is no great matter if they doe , they are so neerly linked together , that they are seldome seperated , you shall hardly find any one guilty of schisme , but he doth easily and very often fall into heresie . schisme , say you , is an unnecessary seperation of christians from that part of the visible church , of which they were once members . but as you will put the question afterwards , who shall be judge what is necessary ? and you are loath to assoile this question because the solution thereof carryeth fire in the taile of it , for it bringeth with it a peice of doctrine , seldome pleasing to superiors . is this doctrine , let me aske you , good or bad ? if good , then it should , then i hope it will be pleasing to superiours ; if bad , then should it displease superiours and inferiours too . but the truth is , the doctrine is most pernicious to government , and therefore to all sorts of people , to wit , in plaine termes , it is this , that every one must judge for himself with this proviso , so he be animo defaecato , and i pray who shall judge of this ? even your selfe also . so that if you be perswaded that you are animo defaecato , and if you thinke you have cleared your selfe from the froath and grownes of feare , sloath , and ambition , then it must needs be so , whereas the heart of man being deceitfull above all things , there is nothing more usuall then for a man to deceive himselfe , and think he is thus and thus , when he is nothing so . and seeing the best of us all have faces enough in us , why may not superiors have as few of these dreggs in them as inferiors , and so as well able , at the least , to judge a right , as they . and you may talke what you will of being clear from the froath of ambition , i know not what greater pride and ambition there can be then thus to pull downe all authority and jurisdiction , and erect a tribunall in euery mans brest ; and yet he that goeth about it , will think him selfe to be animo defaecato : and you may well say it carrieth fire in the taile of it . for thus to trample under foot all power and authority , by making every one his own judge , must needs raise a great combustion and a strange confusion in the world . secondly , you cannot endure that they should be truly hereticks and schismaticks which were anciently so esteemed . for say you , men are more affrighted then hurt by the auncients , and that many reverence antiquity more then need , and after tell us in plain tearmes , that when they came to pronounce of schismes in particular , whether it were because of their own interests , or that they saw not the truth , or for what other cause god only doth know , their judgements many times to ( speak most gently ) are justly to be suspected . where i will not goe about to defend all the particular tenents of every father , for questionlesse , being men , they had their passions and perturbations as well as wee , so that take them singly , wee shall find in many of them such private conceits of their owne , which cannot be so well excused : yet for all this , when all , or most of them agree together in any point , we are not to question or doubt of the truth of it , according to that ancient and hitherto well approved rule of vincentius lirinensis , whatsoever all of them , or most of them , in one and the same sense shall plainly frequently and constantly deliver and confirme , let that be esteemed as a ratified , certaine , and undoubted truth . so then , though one or two of them may be mistaken , yet that all or the greatest part should agree together in a falsehood , i cannot easily believe . and therefore i cannot think that the current of the fathers should thus be mistaken , and that they should generally account them for hereticks and schismaticks , which were not so indeed ; i shall not so much suspect their judgements , as his that thinks so . but all this i perceive is , that there might be some opinions favoured now , which were commonly condemned by them , as we shall see afterward . tract . but to goe on with what i intended , and from that that diverted me , that you may the better judge of the nature of schismes by their occasions , you shall find that all schismes have crept into the church by one of these three waies , either upon matter of fact , or upon matter of opinion , or point of ambition : for the first , i call that matter of fact , when something is required to be done by us , which either we know , or strongly suspect to be unlawfull ; so the first notable schisme , of which we read in the church , contained in it matter of fact , for it being upon error taken for necessary , that an easter must be kept , and upon worse then error ( if i may so speak ) for it was no lesse then a point of iudaisme forced upon the church , upon worse then error , i say , thought further necessary that the ground of the time , for keeping of that feast must be the rule left by moses to the iewes , there arose a stout question , whether we were to celebrate with the iewes on the fourteenth moon , or the sunday following ? this matter though most unnecessary , most vaine , yet caused as great a combustion as ever was in the church , the west separating and refusing communion with the east , for many years together : in this fantasticall hurry i cannot see but all the world were schismatiques , neither can any thing excuse them from that imputation , excepting only this , that we charitably suppose that all parties did what they did out of conseience , a thing which befell them through the ignorance of their guides , ( for i will not say through their malice ) and that through the just judgement of god . because through sloath and blind obedience men examined not the things which they were taught , but like beasts of burthen , patiently couched downe , and indifferently underwent whatsoever their superiours laid upon them : by the way , by this we may plainly see the danger of our appeale to antiquity , for resolution in controverted points of faith , and how small reliefe we are to expect from thence ; for if the discretion of the chiefest guides , & directors of the church , did in a point so triviall , so inconsiderable , so mainely faile them , as not to see the truth in a subject , wherein it is the greatest marvaile , how they could avoide the sight of it , can we without the imputation of great grossenesse and folly , think so poore spirited persons , competent iudges of the questions now on foot betwixt the churches ; pardon me , i know not what temptation drew that note from me . animadversion . thirdly , about keeping of easter , say you , anciently all the world were schismaticks . a strange assertion , to lay such an heavy imputation upon all those auncient worthies . had they been thus guilty , it had been the part of a dutifull sonne to have made some apology for them , and to have covered his fathers nakednesse . but a farre greater crime it is , thus to accuse them without a cause . the best of it is , i shall not haue occasion here to excuse their error , but to defend their innocencie . for first , their difference is not about a point that concerneth faith or good manners , but only the outward discipline and government of the church : about the keeping of a solemne feast . and that not , whether we should keep it or no , ( for all agreed well enough that it ought to be kept ) but about the time of keeping it , whether at this or that time , which is a matter of farre lesse moment . the occasion of this difference briefly was thus , st peter and his successors at rome kept easter the sunday after the foureteenth moon . but s. iames and many of his successors at ierusalem , being all of them ministers of the circumcision , the sooner to win their brethren the iewes , condescended to keep their easter , as the iewes did , 14o lunae . which diversity of observation continued for the space of 200. years , neither church censuring or condemning one another for it . till at the length victor pope of rome would needs take upon him to bring all those easterne churches to his custome , and excommunicate them for not yeelding , whereupon grew the schisme . so that although at the first they kept easter diversly for a long time together , yet so long as there was no breach of charity between them , there was no schisme , by your own confession , who tell us , that schisme offends against charity , as heresy against truth . so then , whiles they were charitable one to another , all the world were so farre from being schismaticks , that no part of it could be justly thus branded . the schisme indeed began , when the pope would needs rashly and unadvisedly excommunicate those easterne churches , with whom he had nothing to doe . but then was not the whole world , but only victor and his partizans the schismaticks according to you , who unjustly divided themselves from the other side , the east churches continuing their old custome without any schisme at all , yet some of them not forbearing to tell victor of his unadvised and unjustifiable action . for shall we not allow to severall churches ( especially when they have no dependency one upon another ) their severall rites and observations , but they must be all schismatick for it ? you may as well call both these churches schismaticks for this also , because the one church fasts on saturday , the other fasts not ; the one administers the eucharist in unleavened , the other in leavened bread . these and such like points concerne not the body of the church , but her garments : now although her body must be but one , yet her garments are of divers colours . nay , as one saith very well , diversitas rituum commendat unitatem fidei . the unity of faith doth more gloriously appeare amidst the diversity of ceremonies and rituall observations . i wonder if one of our refined spirits now a daies , who is animo defaecato , had lived in those times , what could he have done to avoid this schisme ? how could he have chosen but be a schismatick on one side or another ? i conceive how he should have escaped by you , to wit , to joyne with neither side by keeping no easter at all : for with you it is an error to think that an easter must be kept : which position being put in practise will prove the greatest schime of all , thus to divide ones selfe from all the christian world . for although these holy fathers differed for a while amongst themselves about the time , yet they all agreed against you about the thing it selfe , and not only the orthodoxe but the very hereticks of those times kept an easter . not so much as the novatians ( who called themselves cathari the puritans of the primitive church ) but an easter they had , though they were very indifferent about the time of keeping it . and the whole christian world ever since hath duely observed the keeping of easter . but you take no notice of this , only your eare is to excuse those fathers the best you can . and you can find but this one way to doe it , that we charitably suppose that all parties did what they did out of conscience , a thing which befell them through the ignorance of their guides , for i will not say through their malice , and that through the just judgement of god , because through sloath and blind obedience , men examined not the things which they were taught , but like beasts of burthen patiently couched downe , and indifferently underwent whatsoever their superiors laid upon them . doe you call this an excusation , and not rather an heavy censure and accusation both of priest and people in those purer times : for what a dishonour is this to the pastors and prelates then , that they who lived so neare the apostles should be such ignorant guides ? nay what a disparagement is it to the very apostles themselves , that they should choose such ignorant guides , that could instruct the people no better . for some of these you speak of , certainly were the immediate successors of the apostles themselves . they have been accounted hitherto men , not only of conscience but of learning , knowing and understanding , pious and devout men , in many of them the gift of doing miracles still remained . i cannot with patience speak against this imputation . but you are as bold with the people , by accusing them of sloath and blind obedience , and to be beasts of burthen , because they did not examine what they were taught . whereas this good people had well learned , that they should not , they could not be wiser then their teachers ; and they had been newly taught from st pauls own mouth , that they were to obey those that had the rule over them , and submit themselves . which was not a blind but a wise discreet holy and dutifull obedience . but you it seems will teach the people another lesson , to wit , to guide their guides . and they are now apt enough to learne it . for they begin to practise it apace . but you inferre upon these weak premises . by this you may plainly see the danger of our appeale to antiquity for resolution in coutroversed points of faith , and how small reliefe we are to expect from thence ; for if the discretion of the chiefest guides of the church , did in a point so triviall , so inconsiderable , so mainely faile them as not to see the truth , &c. but you build too large a structure upon such a sandy foundation . for here the discretion of the chiefest guides of the church did not faile them , as you imagine : but they constantly kept their own severall customes in love and charity , and therefore without schisme , till victor would needs take too much upon him , whereas the whole businesse was afterwards setled in that famous councell of nice . so that here is no oversight of any truth , as i conceive , unlesse , as you intimate before , the truth is , they should have kept no easter at all : and then as you say , it was most unnecessary and most vaine to strive about the time of keeping it . but such a truth as this , the christian world hath not yet embraced , neither doe i know when it will . so that for ought yet appeares , ( unlesse you bring better reason against them ) we may take good directions from antiquity in the resolution of our moderne controversies : and we may for all this examine the question on foot , by the doctrine of those purer times , and heroick spirits , although you are pleased to terme them poore spirited persons . which to mee seemeth a very strange appellation , was s. ambrose a poore spirited person , who durst excommunicate that great emperour theodosius , and forbid him to enter into the church ? was s. chrisostome a poor spirited person , who did preach against eudoxia the empresse , and valiantly suffered banishment for it ? was s. athanasius either , a poor spirited person who durst stand out even against all the world , as it is storied of him , athanasius against the world , and the world against athanasius ? or were any of those fathers poor spirited persons , who did couragiously suffer martyrdome for the testimony of christ ? can you name any one author auncient or moderne , that hath so called or esteemed of them ? if not , then it is but thus with you . the fathers are poor spirited persons , because i say so , who am animo defaecato . neither are you yet constant to your selfe in this assertion , for although here you call them poor spirited persons , yet afterwards you doe in effect unsay it , where you so much approve of what socrates observeth of them , that they were the great disturbers of the christian world . doe poore spirited persons use to make such hurly burlies ? pardon me , say you , i know not what temptation drew this note from me . and if you would pardon me , i could give a great guesse at the temptation . i feare it is a temptation of pride and singularity , thus to trample upon those auncient worthies , the better to make way for some kind of novelty . and i would it were no worse then this , of not keeping easter . tract . the next schisme which had in it matter of fact , is that of the donatist , who was perswaded ( at least pretended so ) that it was unlawfull to converse or communicate in holy duties with men stained with any notorious sinne , for howsoever , that austen doe specifie only the thurificati and traditores and libellatici , &c. as if he separated only from those , whom he found to be such , yet by necessary proportion , he must referre to all notorious sinners , upon this he taught that in all places , where good and bad were mixt together , there could be no church by reason of pollution , evaporating as it were from sinners , which blasted righteous persons , who conversed with them , and made all unclean on this ground , separating himselfe from all that he list to suspect , he gave out , that the church was no where to be found but in him , and his associates , as being the only men among whom wicked persons found no shelter , and by consequence the only cleare and unpolluted company , and therefore the only church . against this saint augustine laid downe this conclusion , vnitatem ecclesiae per totum mundum dispersae propter nonnullorum peccata non esse deserendam , which is indeed the whole summe of that fathers disputation against the donatists . now in one part of this controversy , one thing is very remarkable . the truth was there , where it was , by meer chance , and might have been on either side , the reason brought by either party notwithstanding , for though it were defacto false , that pars donati shut up in africke was the only othodox party , yet it might be true , notwithstanding any thing saint augustine brings to confute it ; and on the contrary , though it were de facto true , that the part of christians dispersed over the whole earth were orthodox , yet it might have been false , notwithstanding any thing saint augustine brings to confirme it . for where , or amongst whom , or how many the church shall be , or is , is a thing indifferent , it may be in any number more or lesse , it may be in any place , country or nation , it may be in all , and for ought i know , it may be in none , without any prejudice to the definition of a church , or the truth of the gospell , north or south , many or few , dispersed in many places , or confined to one : none of these doe either prove or disprove a church . now this schisme , and likewise that former , to a wise man that well understands the matter in controversie , may afford perchance matter of pitty , to see men so strangely distracted upon fancy , but of doubt or trouble what to doe , it can yeeld none ; for though in this schisme the donatist be the schismatick , and in the former , both parties be equally ingaged in the schisme ; yet you may safely upon your occasions communicate with either , if so be you flatter neither in their schisme : for why might not it be lawfull to goe to church with the donatist , or to celebrate easter with the quartodeciman , if occasion so require ? since neither nature , nor religion , nor reason doth suggest any thing of moment to the contrary ? for in all publique meetings pretending holinesse , so there be nothing done , but what true devotion and piety brooke ; why may not i be present in them , and use communication with them ; nay , what if those to whom the execution of the publique service is committed , doe something either unseemly or suspitious , or peradventure unlawfull ? what if the garments they weare be censured , nay indeed be superstitious ? what if the gesture of adoration be used to the altars , as now we have learn'd to speak ? what if the homilist have preached , or delivered any doctrine of the truth , of the which we are not well perswaded ? a thing which very often falls out : yet for all this we may not separate , except we be constrained personally to beare a part in them our selves ; the priests under ely had so ill demeaned themselves about the daily sacrifice , that the scripture tells us , they made them to stink , yet the people refused not to come to the tabernacle , nor to bring their sacrifice to the priest , for in those schismes which concerne fact , nothing can be a just cause of refusing of communion , but only to require the execution of some unlawfull or suspected act ; for not only in reason , but in religion too , that maxime admits of no release , cautissimicuiusque praeceptum quod dubitas ne feceris ; long it was ere the church fell upōschisme , upō this occasion , though of late it hath had very many , for until the second councell of nice , in which concileable , superstition and ignorance did conspire , i say , untill the rout did set up image-worship , there was not any remarkable schisme upon just occasion of fact , all the rest of schismes of that kinde were but wantons , this was truly serious ; in this the schismaticall party was the synod it selfe , and such as conspired with it ; for concerning the use of images in sacris , first , it is acknowledged by all that it is a thing unnecessary . secondly , it is by most suspected . thirdly , it is by many held utterly unlawfull , can then the enjoyning of such a thing be ought else but abuse ? or can the refusall of communion here be thought any other thing then duety ? here or upon the like occasion to separate , may peradventure bring personall trouble or danger , ( against which it concernes any honest man , to have pectus bene praeparatum ) further harme it cannot doe , so that in these cases you cannot be to seek what to think , or what you have to doe . animadversion . fourthly , you fall foule upon s. austin in particular , who , i may boldly say , hath deserved as well of the christian world as any one man since the apostles times . and if this were my opinion alone , i should suspect it , but i appeale herein to the generall applause the learned have of him . the truth was , say you , on s. austins side against the donatist , but by meer chance . for the donatist might have been the only orthodoxe party , for any thing s. austin brings to confute it , and the other party might not have been orthodoxe , for any thing s. austin brings to confirme it . then which , what could have been spoken more derogatory to so famous , learned and renowned a father ? as if his arguments were so slight and silly , both to defend himselfe and offend his adversary , that they are not worth the reading or regarding , but are as much , as if he had said nothing at all . whereas it is well known and confessed , that although this good father was renowned for many things , yet his master peece doth appeare in his polemicks , who , to the admiration of the world hitherto , is accounted to have acutely subtly , & soundly confuted all those hereticks and schismaticks he wrote against ; and therefore deservedly stiled malleus haereticorum , the mauler of the hereticks . now he must be esteemed a silly man , and to have said nothing against them . you should doe well , now you have thus accused him , to set downe and make it appeare unto the world , that his arguments both offensive and defensive against the donatist , are so slight and weake as you would make us believe . there be some that will defend him , and maintaine that this father hath proved against the donatist by irrefragable arguments drawn out of scripture , that the church of christ neither then was , nor ever shall be , drawn into such a narrow compasse , as you and they imagine . i would aske you this question . if s. austin hath given you so little satisfaction against the donatist , how doe you know , but that the donatist may be defacto in the right , and s. austin in the wrong ; for it seems by you , it was but hap hazard , which way it would goe . i would therefore willingly learne the way you take to discerne which of these two waies is the right , for it seems you have learnt nothing by s. austin . but me thinks you goe a strange way to worke to say the church may be in none , without any prejudice to the definition of the church or the truth of the gospell . i would willingly know how you define a church , which shall consist of none , and whether this be not most derogatory to the truth of the gospell , that christ should have a church which is in none , that is , as i conceive it , should have no church at all . for although it pleaseth god to remove his candlestick from one country to another , and that his church should be like the moon , sometimes in the full , and sometimes in the waine ; yet that it should be utterly eclipsed , and quite vanish away , directly crosseth the prophesies of the old testament , and the promises of the new . but you will pitty s. austin and those fathers before him , that were thus distracted upon fancy . and me thinks the greatest pitty of all is , that some of our wise men that so well now understand the matters in controversy , had not lived in their times , to have rectified them , and put these fancies out of their heads . but i know not , whether it be not the greatest fancy of all , to think our selves so wise , and them so phantasticall . but you easily resolve the doubt , and think it lawfull to goe to church with the donatist , or to celebrate easter with the quartodeciman , so you flatter neither in their schisme , and there be nothing done but what true devotion and piety will brooks . but how can this be ? for your joyning with them in their custome and communion , must needs , if not flatter , yet much harten and encourage them in their schisme . besides you give a great scandall and offence to the orthodox party , and make them justly so suspect , that because you thus joyne with them in their publique communion , that you favour , at the least dislike not , their private opinion . thus then to scandalize your brethren , can never stand with true piety and devotion . tract . come we then to consider a little of the second sort of schisme , arising upon occasion of variety of opinion : it hath been the common disease of christians from the beginning , not to content themselves , with that measure of faith , which god and scriptures have expresly afforded us , but out of a vaine desire to know more then is revealed , they have attempted to devise things , of which we have no light , neither from reason nor revelation , neither have they rested here , but upon pretence of church authority ( which is none ) or tradition ( which for the most part is but fained ) they have peremptorily concluded , and confidently imposed upon other a necessity of entertayning conclusions of that nature , & to strengthen themselves have broken out into divisions and factions , opposing man to man , synod to synod , till the peace of the church vanished , without all possibiity of recall : hence arose those ancient , and many seperations amongst christians , occasioned by arianisme , eutychianisme , nestorianisme , photinianisme , sabellianisme , and many more both ancients , and in our owue time , all which indeed are but names of schisme ; howsoever in the common language of the fathers , they were called heresies , for heresie is an act of the will , not of the reason , and is indeed a lye and not a mistake , else how could that of austen go for true , errare possum , hareticus esse nolo : indeed manichanisme , valentinianisme , macedonianisme , mahometisme , are truly and properly herises : for wee know that the authors of them received them not , but invented them themselves , and so knew what they taught to be a lye : but can any man avouch that arius and nestorius , and others that taught erroniously concerning the trinity , and the person of our saviour , did maliciously invent what they taught , and not rather fall upon it by error and mistake ? till that be done , and upon good evidence , we will thinke no worse of all parties than needs we must , and take these rents in the church to be at the worst but schismes , upon matter of opinion , in which case what we are to do , is not a point of any great depth of understanding to discover , if so be distemper and partiality do not intervene : i do not see that opinionum varictas & opinantium unitas , are {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or that men of different opinions in christian religion , may not hold communion in sacris , and both go to one church , why may i not go ▪ if occasion require , to an arian church , so there be no arianisme exprest in their liturgy , and were liturgies and publique formes of service so framed , as that they admitted not of particular and private fancies , but contained onely such things , as in which all christians do agree ; schismes on opinion were utterly vanished : for consider of all the liturgies that are and ever have beene , and remove from them whatsoever is scandalous to any party , and leave nothing but what all agree on , and the event shall be , that the publique service and honour of god shall no wayes suffer . whereas to load our publique formes , with the private fancies upon which we differ , is the most soveraigne way to perpetuate schisme unto the worlds end ; prayer , confession , thanksgiving , reading of scriptures , administration of sacriments , in the plainest and the simplest manner , were matter enough to furnish out a sufficient liturgy , though nothing either of private opinion , or of church pomp , of garments , or prescribed gestures , of imagery , of musike , of matter concerning the dead , of many superfluities which creep into the church , under the name of order , and decency , did interpose it selfe . to charge churches and liturgies , with things unnecessary was first the beginning of all superstition , and when scruple of conscience began to be made or pretended , there schisme began to breake in ; if the speciall guides and fathers of the church would be a little sparing of incumbring churches with superfluities , or not over-rigid either in reviving obsolete customes , or imposing new , there would be farre lesse cause of schisme or superstition , and all the inconveniance likely to ensue , would be but this , they should in so doing yeeld a little to the imbecillity of their inferiors , a thing which s. paul would never haue refused to do ; meane while wheresoever false or suspected opinions are made a peice of church liturgy , he that seperates is not the schismatique , for it is alike unlawfull to make profession of known or suspected falsehood , as to put in practise unlawfull or suspected actions . animadversion . fiftly , having trampled upon the auncients , you come now to the church , and levell that also with the ground . it hath been , say you , the common disease of christians from the beginning , not to content themselves with that measure of faith which god and scriptures have expressely afforded us , but out of a vaine desire to know more then is revealed , they have attempted to devise things of which we have no light from reason nor revelation . neither have they rested here , but upon pretence of church authority ( which is none ) or tradition ( which for the most part is but fained . &c. i , hath the church no authority ? did not our saviour giue power to the church to punish & excommunicate a notorious offendor ? when he saith , goe tell the church , and if he heare not the church , let him be to thee a heathen or a publican . and did not his s. paul give great power to the church when he calleth it the pillar and fortresse of truth . it were easy here to enlarge my selfe , and prove out of the ancient fathers did you not reject them , that they attributed great powre & authority to the church . but the church of england ( whose sonne suppose you are , and therefore cannot so well neglect her authority ) will tell you , that the church hath powre to decree rites or ceremonyes , and authority in controversies of faith . but here you would cry up the authority of the scriptures , that thereby you might decry the authority of the church , whereas these two are not opposite , but subordinate one to another ; i meane the church to the scripture ; if therefore you will commend unto us the authority of scripture , you must also uphold the authority of the church , which is founded in scripture , but if you nullify the authority of the church , you must also neglect the authority of the scripture , which giveth the church such power . and let no man think the roman church will here break in upon mee , for by church , i meane the truly auncient catholick and apostolicke church , from which the roman church is farre enough . and as by church , so i meane by tradition , for where tradition is fained , none are to esteem of it , but when it doth appeare unto us to be truly auncient catholick and apostolick , it is not a little to be regarded . hereupon vincentius would have us duplici modo munire fidem , to fortify our faith two manner of waies , primò , divinae legis authoritate , deinde ecclesiae catholicae traditione , first , by the authority of divine law , then by the tradition of the catholick church . then he putteth that objection , which you here , and many others are used to make ; seeing that the canon of scripture is perfect enough and more then enough sufficient in it selfe to all things , what need is there that wee should joyne unto it the authority of ecclesiasticall exposition . unto which me thinks he giveth a very satisfying answere , because all doe not understand the holy scriptures , by reason of the height thereof , in one and the same sense : but one interprets it one way , and another a severall way . so that there be as many minds and meanings about it , almost as there be men . for novatus expounds it one way , donatus another , arius another , pelagius another , &c. therefore it is very needfull , by reason of so great and diverse errors , that the line of propheticall and apostolicall interpretation , be directed according to the rule of ecclesiasticall and catholick meaning . so that true and catholick tradition , is like unto a strong wall about the garden of holy scripture , which keeps it from the incursion of hereticks , or if they chance to get in , it is a soveraine antidote to preserve us from the poison they suck out of these sweet flowers . so that take the church and tradition in a right sense , there is much to be attributed to them , but i entend brevity . only i cannot omit , how you would make us believe , that this authority of the church hath caused those seperations which arius , nestorius , and other hereticks have raised , when you say , hence arose those auncient and many separations amongst christians . &c. whereas indeed it was the authority of the church and catholick fathers which hath quelled , confuted , and silenced all those heresies , and hereticks which it seems you have a mind to revive , for you will not have them called heresies , but schismes , for indeed , say you , they are but names of schisme , howsoever in the common language of the fathers they were called heresies . but you must pardon those who thinke it safer and sounder to follow the common language of the fathers , then your own private assertion . but you have a reason for it . for heresie , say you , is an act of the will not of reason , whereas indeed it is both . for doth not the hereticke first fasten upon a false opinion , which is an act of the understanding and corrupted reason , and this is the materiall part of heresie . and then doth wilfully and stubbornely ▪ being convinced of it , maintaine the same , which is an act of the will and formalizeth heresie . and in this sense , not in yours , is that knowne speech of st. austine true , errare possum , haereticus esse nolo , that is , i may erre and so fall into the materiall part of heresie , by apprehending and iudging that to be a good doctrine which is false and erroneous , but haereticus esse nolo , i will not be an hereticke , that is , i will not persist in this opinion , being lawfully convicted and condemned for it by the church and governours thereof . for then i should be formally and properly an hereticke . for howsoever you slight and nullify the authority of the church , yet in the primitive times when the church was at unity , when there was not altare contra altare , it was then esteemed to be of great power and authority , which authority of that church hath justly declared not only the manichees , valentinians and marcionites , but also the arians , nestorians , and pelagians to be hereticks . howsoever you are willing to distinguish them , and make these latter scarce schismaticks , for you will take these rents in the church to be at the worst but schismes . then at the best it seemes they are not so much as schismes . yet i cannot be perswaded so ill of the former ; as to thinke they knew what they taught , was a lye , and so went directly against their owne consciences : nor yet so well of the latter to excuse them with you , from heresie , for i am yet to learne , that heresie is nothing els , but to know that a lye is taught , such kinde of wickednesse i shall rather terme open blasphemy then heresie , when men go against the light of their owne consciences . sixtly , you chalke us out a way , wherein we may safely walke , not only with the donatists , but with the arian and all other hereticks . and that is to have liturgies and publique formes of service so framed , as that they admitted not of particular and private fancyes , but contained onely such things , as in which all christians do agree ; and then , schismes on opinion were vtterly vanished , and thus , say you , i may go to an arian church . a pretty fancy indeede . but first i thinke you could not prevaile with the arian party to frame their creede so , as might not give offence to the orthodoxe side , for in all liturgies they use to have a confession of their faith . and secondly , if you could prevaile with them , how could you perswade all our churches , to put that clause out of our creede . [ i believe in christ the only begotten sonne of god , begotten of his father before all worlds , god of god , light of light , very god of very god , begotten , not made , being of one substance with the father by whome all things were made . ] which was a good illustration of our creed joyned to it , and made a part of it by the fathers of the nicene councell against the arians then , and will serve as a sufficient bulwarke against our sosinians now : which creed hath had the generall applause of the christian churches since , and hath the honour to be one of the creeds of the catholicke church . you must prevaile with them likewise to blot out of athanasius creed ( which though it were made but by one man , yet by generall approbation is now also become the creed of all our churches , ) i say you must put out of it , these clauses . [ there is one person of the father , another of the sonne , another of the holy ghost , but the godhead of the father & of the sonne and of the holy ghost is all one , the glory equall , the majesty coeternall , the father eternall , the sonne eternall , and the holy ghost eternall : the father is god , the sonne is god , and the holy ghost is god . ] all which do directly overthrow these heresies . and do not call these clauses , particular and private fancies , for they are part of the universall and publique faith of the church , which all the east and west , all popish and reformed churches doe unanimously professe and believe . it is not a time now to add , much lesse to detract , from our publique confessions of faith . tract . the third thing i named for matter of schisme was ambition , i meane episcopall ambition , shewing it selfe especially in two heads , one concerning pluralities of bishops in the same sea . another concerning the superiority of bishops in diverse seas . aristotle tels us that necessity causeth but small faults , but avarice and ambition were the mother of great crimes ; episcopall ambition hath made this true , for no occasion hath produced more frequent , more continuous , more sanguineous schismes , than this hath done ; the seas of alexandria , of constantinople , of antioch , and above all of rome , doe abundantly shew thus much , and all ecclesiasticall stories witnesse no lesse , of which the greatest part consists of factionating and tumultuating of great and potent bishops . socrates apologizing for himselfe , that professing to write an ecclesiasticall story , he did oft-times interlace the actions of secular princes and other civill businesse , tels us that he did this to refresh his reader , who otherwise were in danger to be cloyd by reading so much of the acts of unquiet and unruly bishops , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in which as a man may say , they made butter and cheese one of another , for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that i may shew you a cast of my old office and open you a mystery in grammer , properly signifies to make butter and cheese , and because these are not made without much agitation of the milk , hence {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , by a borrowed and translated signification , signifies to do things with much agitation and tumult . but that i may a little consider of the two heads , i but now specified , the first i mentioned was the plurality of bishops in one sea . for the generall practise of the church , since the beginning , at least since the originall of episcopacy , as now it is , was never to admit at once more than one bishop in one sea , and so far in this point have they been carefull to preserve unity , that they would not have a bishop in his sea to have two cathedrall churches , which thing lately brought us a book out of france de monogamia episcoporum , written by occasion of the bishop of la●gres : who , i know not upon what fancy , could not be content with one cathedrall church in his diocesse but would needs have two , which to the author of that work seeme , to be a kind of spirituall polygamy ; it fell out amongst the ancients very often , sometimes upon occasion of difference in opinions , sometimes because of those who were interessed in the choice of bishops ; that two and sometimes more were set up , and all parties striving to maintaine their owne bishop , made themselves severall churches , severall congregations , each refusing to participate with others , & many times proceeding to mutuall excommunications ; that is that which cyprian cals erigere altare contra altare , to this doth he impute the originall of all church disorders , and if you read him , you world thinke he thought no other church tumult to be schisme but this . this perchance may plead some excuse , for though in regard of religion it selfe , it matters not whether there be one or more bishops in one diocesse , and sometimes two are knowne to have set at once ; for epiphanius reckoning up the bishops of rome , makes peter and paul the first : and saint augustin acknowledgeth for a time he sate fellow bishop with his predecessor , though he excused it , that he did so by being ignorant that the contrary had been decreed by the councell of nice , yet it being a thing very convenient for the peace of the church to have it so , neither doth it any whit savour of vice or misdemeanor , their punishments sleeps not who unnecessarily and wantonly goe about to infring it . animadversion . seventhly , you come to episcopall ambition , then which you say none hath caused more frequent , more continuous , more sanguineous schismes . it is very true indeed , we shall read of many uproares and much bloudshed about the election of some bishops , for which you cannot so much accuse the bishops as the factious , furious , and unruly multitude , who eagerly pursue their severall humors , and are violently carryed into extreames . and therefore for the cure of this mischiefe , the order and power of bishops was not taken away , but the choice of them , you know , was taken from the giddy multitude and translated unto the nomination and election of temporall princes . as for your story out of socrates , you should have done well to have put downe the place , that your reader might have seene , you have urged it to your owne advantage . i shall set it downe plainly as i finde it in his proeme to his fift booke : where socrates intending to write an ecclesiasticall history , and yet withall is willing to mingle amongst it temporall affaires , makes three apologies for it . first , saith he , that these warlike affaires might not be forgotten , but come unto posterity , for it seemes there were few or no historians in his time . the second excuse is ( which you alledge ) for variety sake , least the reader should be cloyed with perusing only church affaires , which is no more then if a man writing a story of a common-wealth , should for variety and delight , intermixe here and there businesses of the church . not that the common-wealth was then more quiet then the church , but there were full as many troubles and tumults in that as in this . nay which may serve somewhat to excuse the unquietnesse of the clergy , it was caused through the disturbance of the common-wealth . for that is socrates his thirde and chiefest reason , because by setting downe the affaires of the temporall estate , we may knowe from whence these tumults amongst bishops arose . for when , saith he , the common-wealth was thus tossed up and downe with troubles and seditions with factions and divisions : the estate of the church and chiefest church-men {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as it were by a certaine kinde of sympathy , could not chuse but be infected with the same disease . besides , suppose some bishops then were factious and ambitious , you should consider that this concerneth the persons of bishops , not their calling , though i thinke you might have spared both . now what a vulgar and illogicall way is this , through the sides of any mans person to wound his very calling . and had our great writer of bishops lives been as carefull to lay together all that makes for them , as he hath been industrious to rake together all that makes against them , he might have made his volumes swell twise as bigg . tract . but that other head of episcopall ambition , concerning supremacy of bishops in divers seas , one clayming supremacy over another , as it hath been from time to time , a great trespasse against the churches peace , so it is now the finall ruine of it . the east & west through the fury of the two prime bishops being irremediably separated without all hope of reconcilement . and besides all this mischiefe , it is founded on a vice contrary to all christian humility , without which no man shall see his saviour ; for they do but abuse themselues and others , that would perswade us , that bishops by christs institution haue any superiority over other men further then of reverence , or that any bishop is superior to another further than positive order agreed upon amongst christians hath prescribed : for we have beleived him that hath told us that in iesvs christ there is neither high nor low , and that in giving honour , every man should be ready to preferre another before himselfe , which saying cuts of all clayme certainly of superiority , by title of christianity , except men thinke that these things were spoken only to poore and private men . nature and religion agree in this , that neither of them hath an hand in this heraldry of secundum sub & supra , all this comes from composition and agreement of men amongst themselves , wherefore this abuse of christianity to make it lacquey to ambition , is a vice for which i have no extraordinary name of ignominy , and an ordinary i will not give it , least you should take so transcendent a vice to be but triviall . now concerning schisme arising upon these heads , you cannot be for behaviour much to seek , for you may safely communicate with all parties as occasion shall call you , and the schismatiques here are all those who are heads of the faction , together with all those who foment it : for private and indifferent persons , they may be spectators of these contentions as securely in regard of any perill of conscience , ( for of danger in purse or person , i keepe no account ) as at a cock fight where serpents fight , who cares who hath the better ? the best wish is that both may perish in the fight . and for conventicles , of the nature of which you desire to be informed , thus much in generall evidently appeares , that all meetings upon an unnecessary seperation are to be so stiled , so that in sense a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismatiques , yet time hath taken leave sometimes to fix this name upon good and honest meetings , and that perchance not altogether without good reason , for with publique religious meetings thus it fares . first , it hath been at all times confessed necessary , that god requires not only inward and private devotion , when men either in their hearts and closets or within their privaet walls , pray , prayse , confesse and acknowledg ; but he further requires all those things to be done in publique , by troupes and shoales of men , and from hence have proceeded publique temples , altars , formes of service , appoynted times , and the like , which are required for open assemblies , yet whilst men are truely pious , all meetings of men for mutuall help of piety & devotion wheresoever and by whomsoever celebrated , were permitted without exception . but when it was espyed that ill affected persons abused private meetings , whether religious or civill to evill ends ; religiousnesse to crosse impiety , as appeares in the ethnick elusinia , and bacchanalia , and christian meetings under the pagan princes , when for feare they durst not come together in open view , were charged with foule imputations , as by the report of christians themselves plainely appeares , and civill meetings many times , under pretence of friendly and neighbourly visites , sheltred treasonable attempts against princes and common-weales , hence both church and state joyned , and joyntly gave order for formes , times , places of publique meetings , whether for religious or civill ends , and all other meetings whatsoever , besides those of which both time and place , are limited , they censured for routs and riots , and unlawfull assemblies in the state , and in the church , for conventicles . so that it is not lawfull , no not for prayer , ●earing , for conference , for any other religious office whatsoever , for people to assemble otherwise , then by publique order is allowed , neither may wee complaine of this in times of incorruption , for why should men desire to do that suspitiously in private which warrantably may be performed in publique . but in times of manifest corruptions and persecutions , wherein religious assembling is dangerous , private meetings howsoever , besides publique order , are not only lawfull , but they are of necessity and duty , else how shall we excuse meetings of christians for publique service , in time of danger and persecutions , and of our selues in queene maries dayes ? and how will those of the romane church amongst us , put off the imputation of conventicling , who are knowne amongst us privately to assemble for religious exercise against all established order , both in state and church ? for indeed all pious assemblies in times of persecution and corruption howsoever practised , are indeed or rather alone the lawfull congregations , and publique assemblies though according to forme of law , are indeed nothing else but riots and conventicles , if they be stayned with corruption and superstition . animadversion . eightly and lastly , you take away all superiority from bishop's when you say , they doe but abuse themselves and others , that would perswade us , that bishops by christs institution have any superiority over other men , further then of reverence . where ( although you intended onely to speake against the superiority of one bishop over another ) yet you seeme to take away , not only all power of one bishop over another , but of a bishop over a presbyter , yea of a bishop over any other private man . i cannot here ( intending brevity ) enter upō the dispute about the power of one bishop ouer another , or of the power of a bishop over a presbyter . the former of which is no doubt confirmed by a long continued ecclesiasticall power , the latter by an apostolicall . but that a bishop should not have any superiority over an ordinary lay-man , seemes strange to mee . certainely our saviour intended some power and authority unto peter and the rest of the apostles , when he gave them the keyes and wisht them to open and shut , to binde and loose , whose successors bishops are , and though some make question whether they succeede them as bishops , yet none doubt but they succeede them as pastors of the church , and thus have they power over lay-men . s. paul wills timothy to command and teach , 1. tim. 4. 11. and in another place willeth others to obey those who had the oversight of them , heb. 13. 17. now where there is commanding on the one side and obeying on the other , there must needs be superiority . but i could not have imagined this had been your meaning , but for your proofes which followe . for we have believed him that hath told us , that in christ iesus there is neither high nor low , and that in giving honour every man should be ready to preferre another before himselfe , which saying cuts of all claime certainly of superiority , by title of christianity , except men thinke that these things were spoken only to poore and private men . where , you consider not , that you run into an anabaptisticall humor , and take away all superiority in the common-wealth , as well as in the church , and entrench upon the scepter of the king as well as upon the miter of the bishop . but your proofes are easily satisfied . for the first , though we finde not those very words in scripture , yet i suppose you aime at that place wherein it is said , wee are all one in christ iesus , gal. 3. 28. where the true meaning of the place is , that as wee are christians we are all one , that is , wee have all equally , and alike beene partakers of christ by baptisme , as he saith , vers. 27. as many of you as have beene baptized into christ , have put on christ . so that as members of christ we are all one , & all make but one body of christ . yet as amongst the naturall members of our bodies , so amongst the mysticall members of christ , though they be all one as members , being compared with the head : yet being compared one with another , s. paul tels us , there are more honourable and lesse honourable members , 1. cor. 12. 23. your other place , that we should in giving honour preferre one another , teacheth humility , but taketh not away superiority . but you go on and tell us , that nature and religion agree in this , that neither of them hath an hand in this heraldry of secundum sub & supra : whereas in it they both joyne hand in hand . nature acknowledgeth this heraldry , that shee may avoyd ataxie and confusion : and religion also , for did not our lord and master acknowledge a caesar , and commanded us to give unto him that which belonged unto him , to wit , obedience & subjection . and doth not his apostle s. paul command that every soule should be subject to the higher power . rom. 13. 1. where you see this heraldry of sub & supra , is put downe in expresse tearmes : and pray let us observe the apostles reason why wee should thus be subject to the higher powers , for , saith he , there is no power but of god , & the powers that be are ordained of god . how heare i then , that all this comes from composition and agreement of men amongst themselves . but i spare to prosecute this doctrine any further , least i should discover in it a very transcendent crime . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a44476e-100 lib. ad her. cap. 39. artic. 20. cap. 1. & 2. the reformation of the church of england justified according to the canons of the council of nice, and other general councils, and the tradition of the catholick church being an answer to a paper reprinted at oxford, called (the schism of the church of england) demonstrated in four arguments, formerly proposed to dr. gunning and dr. pearson the late bishops of ely and chester, by two catholick disputants, in a celebrated conference upon that point : in which answer the unworthy and false dealings of the papists are shewed, and the charge of schism returned upon them, and the church of england proved truly catholick and apostolick in her doctrine and constitution / by dr. saywell. saywell, william, 1643-1701. 1688 approx. 78 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-01 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a62284 wing s804 estc r34023 13661531 ocm 13661531 101118 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a62284) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 101118) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1047:7) the reformation of the church of england justified according to the canons of the council of nice, and other general councils, and the tradition of the catholick church being an answer to a paper reprinted at oxford, called (the schism of the church of england) demonstrated in four arguments, formerly proposed to dr. gunning and dr. pearson the late bishops of ely and chester, by two catholick disputants, in a celebrated conference upon that point : in which answer the unworthy and false dealings of the papists are shewed, and the charge of schism returned upon them, and the church of england proved truly catholick and apostolick in her doctrine and constitution / by dr. saywell. saywell, william, 1643-1701. [6], 29 p. printed by john hayes ... for edward hall ... and are to be sold by luke meredith ... [in] london, cambridge [cambridgeshire] : 1688. "'the schism of the curch of england demonstrated' has been attributed to both john spencer and john sergeant"--nuc pre-1956 imprints. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng spencer, john, 1601-1671. -schism of the church of england. church of england -apologetic works. schism. 2000-00 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2001-08 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2001-09 tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread 2001-09 tcp staff (michigan) text and markup reviewed and edited 2001-11 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the reformation of the church of england justified , according to the canons of the council of nice , and other general councils , and the tradition of the catholick church . being an answer to a paper reprinted at oxford , called [ the schism of the church of england ] demonstrated in four arguments , formerly proposed to dr. gunning and dr. pearson the late bishops of ely and chester , by two catholick disputants , in a celebrated conference upon that point . in which answer the unworthy and false dealings of the papists are shewed , and the charge of schism returned upon them , and the church of england proved truly catholick and apostolick in her doctrine and constitution . by dr. saywell . cambridge , printed by john hayes , printer to the university : for edward hall bookseller there . and are to be sold by luke meredith at the angel in amen-corner . london . 1688. to the reader . reader , thou hadst not now been troubled with the following papers , if a relation of part of a pretended conference with bishop gunning , late lord bishop of ely , and bishop pearson , late lord bishop of chester , had not been afresh reprinted at oxford , and sent abroad into the world as a piece unanswerable by these two eminent prelates of our church . in which , tho' there be nothing new , and which has not been long ago answer'd , yet to satisfie the world about the truth of that matter , and to remove any prejudice that some might otherwise conceive concerning these learned and pious bishops , i will give a short account , as near as i can , at this distance of time of the matter of fact , and then proceed to a particular answer to the several arguments in order as they lie . the conference was managed in writing about 30 years ago , and by mutual agreement nothing was to be made publick without the allowance and consent of both parties : but such was the disingenuity and unworthiness of one of the romish disputants , that contrary to the faith and promise he had made , he sets forth a book , and pretends it to be an account of the conference with bishop gunning , and bishop pearson , when he had left out , changed , and misplaced matters as he pleased himself ; insomuch that his partner was very much ashamed of his dishonest and unfaithful dealing , and did utterly condemn him for what he had done , and renounced his having been engaged in approving or consenting to such a hase and disingenuous proceeding , and did openly own and acknowledge so much to the persons concerned . an account whereof was given to the world by mr. thomas smith of christ-college in cambridge , in a little book called a gagg for the quakers , with an answer to mr. denn's quaker no papist . lond. printed for j. c. and are to be sold near the north-door of st. paul's church-yard , 1659. — that which follows in your book about mr. gunning and mr. pearson , who disputed against the romanists , all who know these ministers , know to be superfluous and frivolous . however i think fit to tell you , the romanist who put forth an edition [ of that dispute ] hath so changed , transposed , added , diminished , and made of it what he list , that i believe it will be as soon owned for your ( i mean not j. s. but h. d's ) conference , as mr. pearson's or mr. gunning's . i must now tell you further ( what you have been oft enough told ) that that relation cannot expect to be regarded by mr. p. or any sober person which is disclaimed and disowned by three of the four who were disputants , viz. by both the protestants , and half the papists . but chiefly i must entreat you to consider whether the inserting above 200 lines at a time as a part of the conference , which never was part of it , ( besides all professed additions ) secondly , whether the leaving out whole sheets of the protestants , which the papists thought too hard to answer , and thirdly , the scarce suffering any one argument and answer of both to come together , but casting usually parts of the same paper of mr. g. many score leaves asunder one from another , be not a scandal that any christian would desire might be cover'd with silence ? and i would gladly know from any ingenuous person , whether this might not be answer enough to a book put out at the charge of the romanist's own purse and conscience . a discourse , by being mangled , rendred so unintelligible , that scarce any man ever read it over or will. — reverend mr. william moor the deceased library-keeper , was perswaded by j. s. to read one leaf , but professed before many witnesses he would not read another if you would give him the whole impression , because it was so unintelligible for the causes above-mentioned . this account was thought sufficient to satisfie the world , that the relation of that conference ought not to be regarded , and that it needed no other answer . but perhaps some will demand why was not the conference then printed whole and intire ? now , the reason of that was , because the popish adversary did run all the dispute into obscure and metaphysical niceties , that few could understand , and fewer would take the pains to read it , and so it was not thought fit , and a needless charge to trouble the world with it . besides , both the bishops did tell their friends , when they discoursed with them about a fuller answer , that they thought it altogether unnecessary , because though the dispute were mangled and misrepresented , yet that which they had printed was still unanswered by them , and unanswerable by any of their party ; and they were perswaded that all men who would carefully read the book , would be of the same mind . and as for this paper that is added , at the end of the pretended conference , and now reprinted at oxford , the author do's not so much as say , that it was part of their dispute , but a pure addition of his own , wherein they were no more concerned than other divines , and they did not think they were bound to answer whatsoever he should afterwards write and publish to the world ; and yet this oxford paper would without any ground , or the least colour , impose upon the world , that this is a part of that forementioned conference . neither did the cause it self , or the state of affairs then require any particular discourse upon that subject , the books of bishop fern , arch-bishop bramhall , dr. hammond , and dr. heylin , being then in every bodies hands , wherein they had fully vindicated the church of england from any imputation of schism ; and the learned men of that time were so well satisfied with what they had written , that it was needless to trouble the world upon that account . but now 't is expected every thing that peeps out should receive a due answer , i have therefore endeavour'd to prove from truly catholick principles ( such as our adversaries themselves cannot gain-say ) that not only the doctrine and constitution of our church is most sound and catholick , but even the order of our succession , and the method of our reformation was truly regular and canonical , and that all the author 's own arguments do return upon his own head , and evidently prove himself , and other english papists , guilty of schism . an answer to a paper called the schism of the church of england demonstrated , &c. it has been the constant profession of the church of england , that the word of god , interpreted by catholick tradition and a truly oecumenical council , ( not a patriarchal , one of a few italians in the west ) ought to be hearkened to in matters that concern the peace and unity of the church . and it has been also frequently and learnedly proved by our english bishops and divines , that the points in difference between the church of england and the church of rome , are so far from being matters of faith , that they are modern errors imposed upon the christian world , besides and contrary to the determinations of general councils and catholick tradition ; so that our dissent about them , from the roman church can be by no means accounted heretical or schismatical , but all these arguments urged by the oxford paper , will evidently prove that those bishops , priests , and lay-men that set up altar against altar , and hold separate congregations in opposition to the church of england , do break the order of catholick communion , and are guilty of schism . but before i apply my self to return an answer to the several arguments , it will be requisite to give a short account of the reformation . in the reign of hen. 8. there was an assembly held , the determinations whereof are now extant , and to be seen , wherein the archbishops and bishops , bishop bonner , and gardner , voysey , heath , tunstall , amongst the rest , did declare that the bishop of rome ought to have no jurisdiction here in england , but the archbishops and bishops and the national church had power to order all matters within themselves without the concurrence of the pope , so as they did keep to the faith and unity of the catholick church ; and for this they alledged the authority of the council of nice , and other general councils . and as for the byshoppe of rome , it was many hundreth yeres after christe , before he coude acquire or gette any primacy or gouernance above any other byshoppes , out of his province in italie . sithe the whyche tyme he hath ever vsurped more and more . and though some parte of his power was gyven unto hym by the consent of the emperours , kynges , and princis , and by the consent also of the clergie in generalle councelles assembled : yet surely he atteyned the moste parte thereof by meruaylous subtiltie and crafte , and speciallye by colludynge with greatte kynges and princis , sometyme trayninge theym into his deuotion , by pretence and colour of holynes and sanctimonie , and some tyme constraining them by force and tyranny . wherby the sayde byshoppes of rome aspired and arose at lengthe vnto suche greatnes in strength and auctoritie : that they presumed , and toke vpon them to be heddes , and to put lawes by their owne auctoritie , not onely vnto al other byshoppes within christendome , but also vnto themperours , kinges , & other the princis and lordes of the worlde , and that under the pretence of the auctoritie commytted vnto them by the gospell . wherin the saide bishops of rome do not onely abuse , and peruerte the true sense and meaning of christis worde : but they doo also cleane contrarie to the vse and custome of the primitiue churche . and also do manyfestly violate as well the holy canons , made in the churche immediately after the tyme of the apostels , as also the decrees and constitutions made in that behalfe , by the holy fathers of the catholike churche , assembled in the fyrst general councels , and finally they do transgresse theyr owne profession , made in their creation . for all the byshoppes of rome always , whan they be consecrated and made byshoppes of that see , do make a solemn profession , and vowe , that they shall inuiolably obserue and kepe all the ordinances , made in the eight first general councels , amonge the whiche it is specially provided and enacted , that all causes shall be fynished and determyned within the prouince , where the same be begon , and that by the byshops of the same prouince , and that no byshop shall exercise any iurisdiction out of his owne diocese or province . aud dyverse suche other canons were then made and confyrmed by the sayd councels , to represse and take away out of the churche , al suche primacy and iurisdiction ouer kinges and bishops , as the bishops of rome pretend now to haue ouer the same . in the reign of king edward 6. the bishops and clergy having free liberty to meet and debate of matters of religion without the pope ; did find other abuses and corruptions besides that of the pope's usurpation over the governours of the church , and did in the convocation 1552. establish articles of religion , a publick liturgy , and book of ordination , the same in substance with those that are now in use amongst us , and the archbishops and a far major part of the bishops were consenting thereunto , not above 5 or 6 were displaced for their disorderly behaviour and dissent from their brethren , and others by the metropolitan and bishops of the province ordained and settled in their bishopricks according to the usual custom of that time , as all historians , and our very adversaries are forced to confess . the church of england , being thus regularly settled , was never from that time to this very day regularly changed by any canonical authority , but has oftentimes been confirmed since , both by the authority of the convocation , and of our kings and parliaments , and consequently the present bishops are lawful pastors without any guilt of heresy or schism , and all within their several charges are bound by the council of nice , and other general councils , to live in their communion , and to submit to them as those that are appointed by the holy ghost to direct and govern them in matters of religion , and all neighbour churches are obliged to allow us the communion of coordinate churches , and to own us as true members of christ's mystical body the holy catholick church . the only objection , of any moment , that is made against this regular succession , is from the interruption it met with in the short reign of queen mary : but when the matter of fact is looked into , it will appear that nothing which was done in her reign will be any prejudice to our succession , nor can by any means take off the regular settlement of the church of england by the convocation in king edward's reign , but that the acts thereof are still in force , except in some particulars which have been changed by convocations afterwards . for the synods which were held , and the ordinations that were made in queen mary's days were not carried on in a regular manner by the archbishops and bishops of the province , but by the authority of the pope and those bishops which were justly deposed and set aside , and so had no jurisdiction nor any right or title to exercise their authority in this realm , and therefore could give no right to the bishops , or authority to the decrees they ordained ; and tho' all the art and cruelty imaginable was used , to cut off a future succession , by burning , imprisoning , and banishing the lawful bishops ; yet it pleased god so to order it , that the major part of the lawful undoubted bishops , who were made in king edward's reign , and which lived till queen elizabeth's days , joyned again in continuing the succession of bishops , and restoring the reformation settled in convocation , which has been preserved , without interruption , to this very day . and those bishops that were set aside in queen elizabeth's reign , were either justly deposed in king edward's days , and never rightly restored , or else were ordained by them who had no authority to give them jurisdiction in this nation , and so had no further right , than the civil magistrate could give , which the same power had again taken away . so that the ordination of archbishop parker was so far from being irregular , that it was made by those , who only had proper right and title to ordain : for the rest of king edward's bishops being dead , the sole authority did regularly devolve on the few that were left . and the queen , the nobility , and gentry , the clergy , and the main body of the nation , were so well satisfied of the unlawful authority of those bishops that were set aside , and the undoubted right of those who ordained archbishop parker , that of about 9400 clergy , above 9200 did with great joy receive the bishops , and the reformation ; and the rest of the nation , even those that were formerly zealous for the church of rome , did joyn with them in prayers and sacraments , and there was an universal agreement and concurrence in the communion of the church of england , for 10 or 11 years together ; so that there was no other penal law , but that of 12 d. a sunday , to stir up lazy people to mind their duty , and we might have continued so till this day , in that happy concord , had not the pope excommunicated and deposed the queen , and prohibited all her subjects , under pain of an anathema , to own her soveraignty , and submit to the bishops of the church of england . upon which many separated from our communion , and have disturbed our government ever since . so that it is plain , the schism is on the side of the papists , who upon pretence of papal authority , did withdraw themselves from the communion of their own bishops , and make a formal division in the church , which was before united in peace and truth . but suppose there was some circumstantial defect in the succession of some of our first bishops , as to matter of form , in the beginning of queen elizabeth's reign , after so many of their predecessors , had been unjustly turned out , and destroyed in queen mary's days , their misfortunes do not at all concern , the present bishops of the church of england ; for if the matter of our reformation , and the constitution of our church be sound and catholick , ( as it is beyond all possible contradiction ) and the consecration of our bishops was valid , as to the matter of order , there being no regular succession of bishops continued on by those , who were set aside in queen elizabeth's reign ( because they knew it was in vain , when they saw the kingdom so well settled , and the people so unanimously joyning with the reformed bishops ) after all those popish bishops were dead , there could be nothing required in reason , to give the protestants a full right and authority , but the reception of the queen , and the whole kingdom , and that they had long before , and all the bishops for many successions since that time , came into vacant places , and the bishops that now are , were none of them born , and come into none but void places , and so are as firmly and canonically settled , as any bishops in the world. this being the true account of the reformation of the church of england , i proceed now to consider the argument , in the pretended conference with bishop gunning , and bishop pearson , so many years ago , and lately reprinted by henry cruttenden at oxon. and first it begins , with a definition of schism , in this manner . schism is a voluntary separation of one part from the whole , true , visible [ hierarchical ] church of christ : and then he goes on to a syllogism in this manner . whoever make a voluntary separation of themselves , from the whole , true , visible church of christ , are schismaticks . but all those of the english protestant party , make a voluntary separation of themselves , from the whole , true , visible church of christ. therefore all those of the english protestant party , are schismaticks . he goes about to prove , that we separate from the visible church ; because , we separate from the roman and greek churches , and all others in communion with them , and this seems to be the full substance and design of the first argument . now to avoid all doubt , and entring into disputes about foreign churches , whose case is in some regard , much different from ours of the church of england ; i shall therefore , instead of the protestant party , proceed to answer , for the protestants of the church of england . i will not go to examine , the definition of schism , any one that desires further satisfaction about it , may look into the conference it self , as it is printed , where it is learnedly and acutely examined , by the bishops themselves . in answer therefore to the major proposition , it is so far from being true , that we separate from the visible church of christ , that we separate from no true church or society of christians in the world. but to the better stating of this matter , we must consider , that there is a twofold communion , one of coordination , and another of subordination . churches coordinate , i. e. of several provinces , several nations , and countries , owe no obedience one to another , and are not bound to observe the same rites and customs , and to agree in all school-disputes and niceties , concerning theological opinions ; no more than several kingdoms are bound , to have the same laws and constitutions . this is acknowledged by all sober divines , in all ages . accordingly several churches and countries , have had their peculiar rules and orders , still living in peace and unity , and so might it be at this day , did not the church of rome by force and subtilty , go about to enslave all mankind to their private errors and impositions . as therefore several kingdoms do maintain peace one with another , and give all friendly assistance if there be occasion , for their mutual happiness and defence , yet keep to their own laws and customs in other matters ; so tho' we differ in some opinions and practices from rome and other churches , yet we retain that christian charity and respect for them , which one coordinate church or kingdom ought to have for another , and so there is no schism made at all by us , nor so much as any separation , but what distance of place and difference of circumstances do necessarily make . neither do we send emissaries abroad , to withdraw their people from their obedience , and set up altar against altar in a schismatical manner , and i wish they could say as much , that they did not go about to disturb our peace and communion . but secondly , there is a communion of subordination , that which all bishops , priests , and all others owe , of submission to the archbishops and bishops , &c. and to the canons and constitutions of each province and nation , in all lawful things ; and this is heartily done by all true members of the church of england ; herein we follow the command of god , obey them that have the rule over you ; the command of the council of nice and other general councils , the laws ecclesiastical and civil of this church and nation . but those that call themselves roman catholicks are plainly guilty of schism , for they separate from the communion of all coordinate churches , which will not embrace their errors , and be subject to their authority , they send emissaries abroad all over christendom , to withdraw persons from their obedience to their own bishops , and set up altar against altar , communion against communion , contrary to the constant order of the catholick church . so that the disorders , tumults , conventicles , which he complains of in england are chargeable upon them . but the protestants of the church of england are in doctrine most pure , in charity most catholick , and in their practice and publick service most conformable to the primitive and catholick church of any in the world. the second argument . whoever adhere , to schismatical pastors ( as schismatical is understood in our definition ) are schismaticks . but all english protestants adhere to schismatical pastors , as schismatical is understood in our definition , therefore all english protestants are schismaticks . he goes about to prove that we adhere to schismatical pastors , because we derive our succession from those that ordained archbishop parker , and others , in opposition to the major part of the english bishops , who were then alive , and into the places of many of them while they were alive , and never lawfully deprived . this is the substance of the second argument . in answer to which , i deny that the bishops set aside in queen elizabeth's reign , were lawful bishops of the church of england , because they were violently and uncanonically thrust in , or rather they invaded those bishopricks in queen mary's days . so that the bishops which ordained archbishop parker and others , and those that held communion with them , were the only lawful regular bishops of the church of england at that time , they being regularly constituted in king edward's days , and never legally deprived . all the other of king edward's bishops which complied , except thirlby and kitchin , were dead , and so the full authority must remain with the rest that survived , and they all but thirlby did concur in the ordination of archbishop parker , and others , or communicated with them . neither was archbishop parker , and many others , consecrated into other mens places while they were alive , for cardinal poole the archbishop of canterbury , and about nine or ten bishops more were dead , and archbishop parker , and others , were elected , confirmed , and consecrated into vacant places in due order , according to the usage of this kingdom for many ages ( except in the form of the ordinal ) in which there was nothing wanting to the essence and validity of their consecration . so that archbishop parker's authority , and many others , is beyond dispute , also by the tacit consent of the rest , who ought to have opposed it at their confirmation , when they were summon'd to that purpose , if they had any legal exception to make against their being made bishops , which being not done , and the consecration proceeding , they are in all reason and justice shut out from any further opposition , and they ought to be concluded to have given their tacit consent ; which we may the rather believe , because many of them agreed to the reformations in king h. 8. and king edw. 6. days , and seem more now for political than ecclesiastical reasons to refuse to comply , because they had made themselves obnoxious to all parties already , by their former changes and cruelty . so they thought it better to regain their credit with the romanists by their standing out , than to be looked upon as time-servers , and little regarded by the people . but then this argument does demonstratively return upon the author himself , and the popish bishops in queen mary's days , as will appear by the following catalogue . bishops justly deposed in king edward's days , for not obeying the laws , and their deposition consented to , and approved by the bishops , as appears by their ordaining others into their places . bishop bonner of london . bishop gardner of winchester . bishop day of chichester . bishop heath of worcester . bishop voysey of exeter . some say he resigned . bishop tunstall of durham . who is said to have resigned . bishops rightly consecrated , and in actual possession at king edward's death . archbishop cranmer of canterbury consecr . hen. 8. bishop ridley of london . edw. 6. bishop poynet of winchester . edw. 6. bishop goodrick of ely. hen. 8. bishop salscot alias capon of salisbury . hen. 8. bishop chambers of peterburgh . hen. 8. bishop king of oxford . hen. 8. bishop bulkley of bangor , hen. 8. bishop parfew alias wharton of st. asaph . hen. 8. bishop samson of lich. and coventry . hen. 8. bishop kitchin of landaffe . hen. 8. bishop bush of bristol . hen. 8. bishop bartow of bath and wells . hen. 8. bishop ferrar of st. david's . edw. 6. bishop scory of chichester . edw. 6. bishop hooper of worcester and glocester . edw. 6. bishop coverdale of exeter . edw. 6. bishop taylor of lincoln . edw. 6. bishop harley alias harvey of hereford . edw. 6. rochester void . in the province of york . archbishop holgate of york consecrated . hen. 8. bishop aldrich of carlisle . hen. 8. bishop bird of chester . hen. 8. durham void . of these in the province of canterbury . archbishop cranmer , bishop ridley , poynot , scory , coverdale , taylor , harvey alias harley , bush , hooper , ferrar , and barlow were removed , a. d. 1554 as dr. burnet relates : bishop goodrick died about that time , and all the rest that complied , except bishop thirlby and bishop kitchin , either before or about the time of queen mary's death . and it does not appear , they were at all active in turning our their brethren . in the province of york . archbishop holgate , bishop bird , turned out . in the province of canterbury ( rochester being void , and worcester and glocester united ) there could be but twenty in all , and we find here eleven , i. e. the archbishop , and major part of the bishops unjustly and uncanonically turned out . in the province of york , durham was void , so archbishop holgate , and bishop bird were the major part , unjustly turned out . now let me take up our author's argument . whosoever possess the sees and offices of lawful bishops ( those lawful bishops yet living ) or unite themselves to such as possess them , are such schismatical pastors . this is our author 's major proposition ; to which i add this minor. but the popish bishops that were set aside in queen elizabeth's reign , did possess the places of lawful bishops yet living , or united themselves to such as did possess them , therefore they were schismatical , and no lawful bishops of the church of england : for as soon as these lawful bishops were turned out , others were put into their places , and not only so , but contrary to all rule and ordorly government in the church . for , the most certain fundamental constitution of the church in all ages ; and the constant order of all societies ( which is always tacitly supposed , tho' not formally observed ) is , that while particular churches keep to the faith and unity of the catholick church , as ours had done , all things ought to be managed by the archbishop and bishops of the province , and so by the chief governors and main body of the society , or else things cannot be regularly done ; but here the archbishop and the major part of the bishops are set aside , and others put into their places while they were yet alive , and dr. burnet adds that of the inferiour clergy , who were sixteen thousand , twelve thousand were likewise turned out , so there could be nothing regularly done by the convocation , either in the upper or lower house . and further , they were not content with the present possession , but secretly said in their minds , these are the heirs come let us kill them , and their inheritance shall be ours ; therefore , after they had bereaved them of their bishopricks and their livings , they quickly took away many of their lives . and are not all these men schismaticks with a witness , and all those that were ordained by them into other mens places and government ? it matters not to our business to pursue all the successions and changes in queen mary's days , i will rather proceed to consider the state of the bishopricks after queen mary's death , when queen elizabeth restored the church to that regular constitution which was settled before , by the undoubted lawful archbishops and bishops in king edward's days . bishopricks void by death . archbishop poole of canterbury . bishop king of oxford . bishop capon of salisbury . bishop parfew of hereford . bishop holyman of bristol . bishop glin of bangor . bishop brookes of glocester . bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 norwich void . rochester void . bishops in possession of the other bishopricks but uncanonically for the reasons above named . bishop bonner of london . bishop thirlby of ely. bishop white of winchester . bishop watson of lincoln . bishop pool of peterburgh . bishop bourne of bath and wells . bishop turbervill of exeter . bishop bayne of lichfield and coventry . bishop christophorson of chichester . bishop pates of wonchester . bishop goldwell of st. asaph . bishop kitchin of landaffe . who conformed . in the province of york . archbishop heath of york . bishop tunstall of durham . bishop scot of chester . bishop oglethorp of carlisle . 't is confessed that 14 or 15 were turned out or went away in queen elizabeth's days , but according to our author 's own argument , they were schismaticks and no lawful bishops , because they came into the places of lawful bishops while they were alive , or else were ordained by and communicated with such schismaticks . i add , they usurped their places by turning out the metropolitans and major part of the bishops of each province , and so could have no lawful authority or jurisdiction . queen elizabeth therefore set them aside , and so removed this violence and usurpation . and being willing to restore all things as they were settled in king edward's reign , she calls back the bishops that were still alive , which were only five in number . bishop barlow , scory , coverdale , kitchin , and thirlby . and all but thirlby concurred in settling the reformation ; so we had still the major part of the lawful bishops to renew the succession , and they did ordain archbishop parker and others , and it has been regularly continued ever since . thus the authority of our present bishops as to order and jurisdiction is beyond dispute . one objection was insisted upon by queen mary and others , to justify the deprivation of the protestant bishops , and others of the clergy , because some of them were married men , and perhaps they married after orders , which was threatned with deposition by many ancient canons . to which i answer , that living in a married estate is not by divine authority inconsistent with the exercise of the priesthood , but was always allowed in the church , and ever practised in the greek church till this day , and has been oftentimes dispensed withal in the roman church for secular ends. so that the allowing marriage before or after orders , is a circumstance that depends upon the discretion of the church ; and if for some reasons clergy-men were heretofore prohibited to marry after orders , yet in this long interval of general councils , upon the great experience of the mischiefs and inconveniences that came by forbidding it , particular churches may dispense with that rigour ; accordingly this provincial and national church , and the law of the land , which had much better authority than the pope , had left every body to their liberty to marry or not to marry , as they saw good , and so they that did marry offended against no law of god and man , and therefore were unjustly deposed from their bishopricks upon that account . but then our author says , that they in queen mary's days were lawful bishops , and he proves it from the confession of protestants , who grant that the church of rome , and all those of her communion are true churches of christ. now as to the first part of the argument , i answer , in time of great schism and tumultuous proceedings , there may be so far the remains of a true church , that many pious christians , who are not at all , or else ignorantly ingaged in the schism , may be saved ; but we have no reason to say that the popish bishops in queen mary's days were lawful bishops , or the governing part were then the national church of england ; the true right and authority of the church was in those lawful bishops that were made in king edward's days , and that was the true church of england which did adhere to them and their constitutions . but then the author does object , that protestants do grant that the church of rome and all those of her communion , are true churches of christ. never was people's charity more abused than ours of the church of england has been in this kind , to justify the errors and schism of the church of rome , and all upon a mere and generally wilful mistake . in short therefore 't is true , and we do acknowledge , that the substance of the christian religion is professed by the church of rome , tho' mingled with errors . and so many that honestly and sincerely serve god in her communion , may be saved ; but yet many may be damned for too pertinaciously maintaining and propagating the errors of the church of rome , especially those that desert and refuse obedience to the bishops of the church of england , setting up altar against altar , and so keeping up a schism amongst us , where they have such plentiful means of being better informed , and all the opportunities of serving god , according to the highest perfection of the apostolick and primitive church . come we now to the second part of the argument ; where the author goes to prove , that the popish bishops did nothing whereby they became unlawful bishops , for if they did , it ought to be supposed it was that , for which they were deprived , and then he says , all the reasons for which they were deprived , were resisting the pretended reformation , and refusing the oath of supremacy ; and that was but proceeding in practice according to the common tenets , the holding whereof made them not unlawful bishops . again , whilst they were lawful bishops in queen mary's days , they held it a common necessary point of religion to resist the reformation , and refuse the oath of supremacy . in answer to all which i say , that according to the author 's own argument , they were no lawful bishops , because they either did schismatically invade the places of the lawful bishops , or else were willingly consecrated , and did joyn in communion with those schismatical bishops . when the queen therefore did set them aside , she did but dispossess men who had no just right , and remove those by her civil authority , who had no power , but what they had from force and the secular constitution . but perhaps it may be objected , that though their title were at first defective , and they did schismatically usurp those bishopricks , yet when their predecessors were dead , that defect might be overlook'd , and by the reception of the kingdom , their title might be made good , and they very well confirmed in their possession . it would have , i confess , been happy , if there had been such a catholick disposition in those bishops , that they would have willingly repented and forsaken their former errors , that so the kingdom might have confirmed their authority by the universal reception . but there were many reasons why they did refuse , and could not own and receive them as lawful catholick bishops . 1. many of them had been guilty of shedding much innocent blood , and the rest had been consecrated and joyned in communion with them , and so in some measure were partakers of their guilt ; and it was not fit such polluted hands , should be permitted to minister at god's holy altar . for though there was a law brought in by the corruption of later times , whereby hereticks might be put to death , yet it was a great abuse of that law , to condemn their spiritual fathers and better catholicks than themselves , for hereticks : it being contrary to the divine and canon law , that such men should be allowed to exercise the episcopal function , the kingdom had great reason to set them aside . 2. it is a known doctrine in the canon law and roman schools , and a frequent practice of roman catholicks to depose princes and absolve their subjects from their allegiance , and endeavour to exterminate those they call hereticks , under which pretence many princes have been destroyed , many rebellions and tumults have been fomented , much innocent blood has been spilt , and christendom has been a miserable theatre of war and confusion . these bishops therefore who formerly had consented to most parts of the reformation , now growing such zealots all of a sudden , and refusing to crown the queen , and to give the kingdom security of their peaceable conformity to the government , by taking the oath which they had formerly taken , and had nothing to except against , gave just reason to suspect they were guilty of the heretical doctrine of deposing princes , and stirring up rebellion , to exterminate the nobility and gentry that would not comply with them . and these are sufficient reasons , why they could not allow them to have care of the people's souls , which might have been to the utter destruction of the queen and kingdom . for 't is notorious there were many attempts made , and by some of them to that purpose , and the pope some years after did actually excommunicate and depose the queen , and charge all men under an anathema to withdraw from her obedience and communion , and that was the foundation of the present schism of english papists , and many rebellions and treasons amongst us . 3. if there had been none of these exceptions against the persons of these bishops , yet the publick service which they did impose , will justify all men before god and the catholick church , for not joyning in communion with them . because 1. all people were in common account obliged to worship that which is in the priest's hand , and in the pix , with divine honour , as god himself , when we have reason , scripture , and the authority of catholick tradition to perswade us to believe it to be bread and wine , and therefore they could not worship it without the guilt of idolatry , while they were of that mind . for though it be the general belief of most christians ancient and modern , that the body and blood of christ are verily and indeed taken and received by the faithful in the lord's supper , yet there is no reason to believe the body of christ is in the hand of the priest , or in the pix ; for our saviour says only take eat this my body , and many churches and divines say 't is the body of christ vescentibus & sumentibus . but none but the church of rome does teach it is upon the altar , and in the hand of the priest , and that what is there is to be adored . 2. our saviour says , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood ye have no life in you . and the church of god did partake of the holy communion in both kinds for above twelve hundred years together , and all other churches , but the roman , do receive it in both kinds at this time . the niceties therefore of the council of trent , and the roman schools cannot justify our disobedience to the command of christ , and the constant tradition of the catholick church . 3. they would allow no other publick service but in latin , which people generally did not , nor never were likely to understand . contrary to the plain word of god , 1 cor. 14. these were sufficient reasons to omit many others , why the queen and kingdom should refuse to receive and to confirm those popish bishops ; and consequently the schism that was made was wholly at their door . and the protestants in joyning with the reformed bishops , did nothing but that they had warrant to do from the word of god , and the catholick church , and all other churches ought to endeavour in a christian and peaceable manner , to reform these and other abuses as we have done . the third argument . that archbishop parker , and all his associates , and consequently all who adhered to him , or adhere to their successors , were and are schismaticks , separate from the whole true visible church of christ , because they were consecrated by barlow , who was intruded into the place of christophorson bishop of chichester . scory was put by king edward 6th into day 's place , then being bishop of chichester . coverdale into vesey's place , hodgkins was only a suffragan , but communicated with these three in the consecration , and therefore became a schismatick . as our author does only in this argument vary in form and circumstance from his former arguments , so i must apply the same answer for substance to his assertions . day and veysey were justly set aside in king edward's days , for not consenting to the decree of the major part of the bishops , as appears by the protector 's letter to bishop gardner in dr. burnet's collection ; and bishop scory and coverdale were by the consent of the archbishop and bishops regularly settled in their places , in peaceable times wherein no cruelties were exercised , no man was put to death for his religion , and only that discipline was used , to turn out those that would not quietly submit to the determinations of the major part of the bishops of the province ; and as for bishop barlow , he was consecrated a bishop of this church near ' twenty years before , in king henry the eighth's days , and so was bishop hodgkins suffragan at bedford . so that we have the four consecrators of archbishop parker duly consecrated in quiet times , by the archbishop and bishops of the province , and therefore endued with the undoubted power both of order and jurisdiction beyond all dispute . therefore unless any can shew a better title , not only the power of order which they did confer , but of jurisdiction also , must be unquestionable , and consequently the whole succession of english bishops ever since , is exactly regular and canonical . the only pretenders to a better title , were those fourteen popish bishops set aside by queen elizabeth : but these four mens title is more firm and ancient than theirs , for the popish bishops were either such as were legally deposed ; and thrust themselves afterwards in the places of the lawful bishops , and then put many of them to death , or all else but bishop thirlby , were ordained by , or communicated with them during their schism and usurpation , and therefore , neither the ordainers nor ordained had any right or jurisdiction in the church of england ; so that bishop barlow , bishop scory , bishop coverdale , being undoubted regular bishops of the church of england at king edward's death , and all that was done in queen mary's days being acted by bishops that had no lawful jurisdiction , the regular authority of ordaining and conferring jurisdiction , as well as order , was devolved to them , and they might take bishop hodgkins into their assistance to add the greater solemnity to their ordination , so that those fourteen , were so far from being regular bishops of the church of england , that they will not be able to clear themselves of schism , murder , and the damnable heresy of the deposing doctrine . 't is very unreasonable therefore that the bishops of the church of england should be charged with schism , for declining their authority , so long as they have a regular succession , from the undoubted lawful bishops , who were free from any such foul guilt or suspicion , and the clergy were so well satisfied with their authority , that of 9400 , above 9200 did really submit to it , and heartily embrace the reformation ; and the queen , nobility , gentry , and the whole kingdom , as i said before , did willingly and joyfully adhere to their communion , and for ten or eleven years lived in peace and unity ; till the pope by his bull of excommunication and deposition made a disturbance . the fourth argument . whosoever subject themselves unto these as their lawful pastors , who have no jurisdiction over them , are schismaticks . but english protestants ever since queen elizabeth's time , have subjected themselves to these as their lawful pastors , who have no jurisdiction over them ? therefore , &c. are schismaticks . the second proposition he proves , because we had no regular succession at home , nor derived none from abroad , and could have none from rome , constantinople , or any other church . but all this is founded upon a false and groundless supposition . whereas we had four true , lawful , regular bishops with full power of order and jurisdiction , from whom we derive our succession ( and might have had many more , had not they unjustly put them to death ) and so needed not any assistance from rome or constantinople , or any place else . and as for the coustitution of our church , it is established by divine right , committed to us by succession from christ and his apostles , and we act by the power we received from the holy ghost , 1 for the pastoral charge , the care of souls , the right and power of baptizing and consecrating the eucharist , the power of binding and loosing , the power of ordination , &c. are all spiritual offices received from god. neither do we derive them from any secular magistrates ; 2 but from the bishops of the province 3 according to the constant tradition of the church , which st. cyprian 4 says , did descend down from divine tradition and apostolical observation , and the council of nice , and other general councils approve and confirm the same : and as for many of the formalities that are used in the first nomination , election , and confirmation of bishops , they were not observed by christ and his apostles , nor commanded by the church , and so are accidental ceremonies appointed by the state to testify their good liking of the person , that as the church doth think him well qualify'd and fit to be preferred to such a sacred office , so the state is well satisfied , that he is a man that will be useful and faithful to the temporal government ; which is agreeable to the apostles direction , that he should have a good report of them that are without . but still that which is essential , and the authority and power to execute the sacred office of a bishop or priest in their respective charges , is derived from the bishops of the province ; and after great violence and disorder , from as many , or the major part of them which survive . and this method is established and allowed by the catholick church , as long as provincial and national churches keep to her faith and unity , as ours has done . so that every bishop and priest orderly constituted in his place , does act by the power and appointment of the catholick church , and they contemn the catholick church , that desert and disturb them in the performance of their office . hence we may understand our saviour's meaning , when he says , if he neglect to hear the church let him be unto thee as an heathen man , and a publican . which in the first place , does require us to hear our own particular parish priest and bishop , while they are constituted , and live in the unity of the church , but principally if does oblige us to hearken to the catholick church . so that if our own pastors turn hereticks , or set themselves up by undue means , and not according to the order of the church , they are not to be hearkned to , but we must according to our saviour's command here the church , and not those pastors that will not themselves hear and obey the church , as the pope and his adherents in england do not . so that though archbishop parker and others , were ordained but by four bishops ( which is more then the canons do require to be present ) yet it was according to the constitution and order of the catholick church , and so all catholick bishops must allow and approve of what was done : and they and their successors are established by christ , according to that command and authority which he gave to his apostles , to whom , as he gave authority over the whole world , so he hath promised to be with them and their successors to the end of the world. and none have better asserted and maintained the divine and apostolical right of episcopal government , as well against the pope and jesuits , 1 as the presbyterians and erastians , than the bishops 2 and divines of the church of england . our author therefore does take wrong measures , and seems not to be acquainted with the state of our affairs , when he does object to us , the deriving our spiritual authority from secular magistrates : for no church in the world hath more heartily defended the episcopal primitive church government , in opposition to the pope 3 and other innovators , than ours has done . and now we have been governed by many successions of archbishops and bishops , according to that divine tradition and apostolical observation ; and are at this day settled under the conduct of as learned , and pious bishops and clergy , as perhaps ever has been in any age , since the first founding of the christian church , and heartily united in the profession of , and conformity to , the truly ancient , catholick , and apostolick faith and discipline , which is established in the church of england , in provincial and national synods , and likewise by the law of the land , neither are there any that pretend any succession derived down in opposition to ours , much less a regular and orderly jurisdiction over us ; and if the popish bishops in the beginning had a pretended claim , yet they being all long since dead , and none continued to succeed in their places , all pretence is now wholly out of doors , and the present bishops are guilty of no schism , their order is undoubted , and their succession uninterrupted , and so their title and authority is as firm and unquestionable as any upon earth ; and they must be schismaticks before god and the catholick church , that do not submit to them , and joyn in their communion in all lawful things , as the service of our church is in all its offices and administrations beyond dispute ; and to joyn in them is all that is required of any lay-person to be a member of our communion . and now i have vindicated the justness of the authority of the church of england , let us consider with what a different spirit and temper the reformers did proceed , from that of the papists ; on the side of the reformers nothing but love , kindness and charity ; on the part of the papists , nothing but cruelty , murder , and destruction . for they did not only uncanonically depose their spiritual fathers , the lawful . bishops in queen maries days , but archbishop cranmer of canterbury , bishop ridley of london , bishop latimer , bishop hooper , and bishop ferrar , were burnt to death , with many other priests and lay-persons , and others were forced to fly their country to avoid the like destruction . now come we to consider how these bishops that had been the cause of all this cruelty , and bloodshed in queen maries days , and were wrongfully thrust into the places of the true and lawful bishops whom they murthered , or forced to fly their country , were treated themselves by the reformed bishops when the tide was turned another way , as it was in the days of queen elizabeth . and one would think , that the nation being thus exasperated against them , by the cruel usage they shewed to others , they would meditate the like revenge , aud retaliate upon them with the like severity , but it is quite contrary to the meek spirit of orthodox christians , thus to imbrue their hands in blood upon the account of religion , or to seek to revenge themselves in the like manner . they committed their cause to god , in whom they did put their trust , and left it to him to plead it with their adversaries . but they themselves did render nothing but good for evil , mercy for cruelty : and though they did remove the bishops from those sees to which they had no just title , because they were men of blood , and would not conform to the publick order settled in king edward's days , and give such security to pay due allegiance to her majesty , as in justice they ought to have done , yet they were treated with all civility . archbishop heath was suffered to abide in one of his own purchased houses , never restrained to any place , and died in great favour with the queen , who bestowed many gracious visits on him during his retirement . tunstall bishop of durham spent the remainder of his time with archbishop parker , by whom he was kindly entertained and honorably buried ; the like civility was shewed to thirlby bishop of ely in the same house , and to bourn bishop of wells by the dean of exon , in which two houses they died about ten or eleven years after . white bishop of winchester , though at first imprisoned for his insolencies , after some time was suffered to enjoy his liberty , and to retire himself to what friend he pleased . the like favour was shewed to turbervile bishop of exeter , who being a gentleman by birth of an ancient family , could not want friends to give him entertainment . watson bishop of lincoln having endured a short restraint , spent the remainder of his time with the bishops of ely and rochester , till being found practising against the state , he was finally shut up in wisbich castle , where at last he died. oglethorp , bishop of carlisle died soon after his deprivation , of an apoplexy . bayne bishop of lichfield of the stone ; and morgan bishop of st. davids of some other disease the december following his deprivation , but all of them in their beds and at perfect liberty . the rest disposed of themselves as they pleased , but no restraint was laid upon them , and were perfectly out of all fear or danger of hard usage , so far were the reformers from putting them to death upon the account of religion . only bishop bonner was kept in the tower for his own security , to preserve him from the outrage of the multitude , which he had highly exasperated against him by his former cruelties ; but so gentle was his usage , and so answerable in all respects to his character ; that one would have look'd on it rather as a chosen retirement , than a restraint . this clear account being given of the lawful authority , and undoubted succession of the bishops in queen elizabeth's days , by whom the reformation was continued , which was happily begun in king edward the sixth's reign ; come we now to consider the state of the inferior clergy at that change , as we have set it down by mr. cambden , who wrote the annals of those times . the account that he gives us is this , that the number of ecclesiastical promotions was 9400 , of all which , only 80 rectors of churches , 50 prebendaries , 15 presidents of colleges , 12 archdeacons , 12 deans , and six abbots were turned out , in all 175 , most , if not all of them very likely put in unjustly in queen maries days , or else chosen out particularly for their known obstinacy and humour , in contending for the errors of the church of rome . and yet what a poor handful they were to the rest , which were above 9200 , who did return to lawful settlement of the church in king edward's days , and the true canonical bishops then remaining , who concurred in ordaining archbishop parker and other bishops , restoring and setling the reformation . god almighty in his due time , put an end to all those immoderate heats and contentions ; and inspire papists and other dissenters with that charitable and peaceable temper , which always eminently appeared in the true catholicks of the church of england : and let all those that heartily desire the advancement of religion , and the salvation of mankind , consider , that the way to promote the glory of god , and the peace and unity of the church , is not to carry on secular designs , to impose the private opinions of the council of trent and roman schools , nor yet the fanatical devices of some modern reformers , but by maintaining the truly ancient and apostolick faith , devotion and discipline , delivered and recommended to us by the word of god , and example and authority of the primitive and catholick church , which is , and can be observed no where in greater perfection , than in the church of england , as is established by law. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a62284-e730 concionatores imprimis videbunt ne quid unquam doceant pro concione quod à populo religiosè teneri & credi velint nisi quod fit consentanen̄ doctrinae peteris & novi testamenti , quodque ex illa ipsa doctrina catholici patres & veteres episcopi collegerint . now their sense does no where appear more undoubted than in the decrees of general councils , and in the practice and tradition that was generally allowed in the primitive church . synod . lond. a. 1571. c. concionatores . firmil . ep. ad cypr. inter ep. cypr. n. 75. contra ep. step. papae . eos qui romae sunt non ea in omnibus observare quae sunt ab origine tr●adita , & frustra apostolorum auctoritatem pretendere . vide concil . trull . can. 13. & can . 55. where the church of rome is commanded by name to amend some errors which yet she has never done ; so the church did not think the bishop of rome had authority to give laws to her , but was himself bound to submit to the canons , and the order of the church . see the subscription to a book called the institution of a christian man. institut . of a christian man. londini in aedibus thomae bertleti regii impressoris a. 1537. p. 47 , 48. acts & mon. v. 2. p. 346. dedicated to the king h. 8. by thomas archbishop of canter . and edward archbishop of york , and all other bishops , and prelates , and arch-deacons of this realm . can. apost . 34. concil . nicen. c. 4. 6. concil , antioch . c. 9. con. const. p. 1. c. 2. con. eph. c. 8. con. calced . c. 28. see the popes oath , dist . 16. c. 8. sancta octo , &c. see dr. heylin's reform . vindic. dr. burnet's hist. of the reform . part . 2. book 1. p. 195. coll. of record . pag. 209. n. 55. qui undecennium primum meminerunt regínae elizabethae haud quicquam eomitius vel romissius fuisse praedicabunt . decimo tertio demum anno biennio scilicet post quam pius 5. bullam hu● sua●● parum piam misisset atque ex ea boreales illae turbae extitissent ; paulo tum facta commotior , ut par erat statuere cepit contra bullas & tabellarios , sed praeterquam in eos nihil superstitionis vestrae causa sancitum est durius , &c. — audi philopatrum ipsum jesuitam reginam de regni sui initiis sic alloquentem . dum initio regni tui mitius aliquanto cum catholicis ageres , dum nullum adhuc vehementissimè urgeres , nullum admodum premeres , vel ad sectae tuae participationem , vel fidei antiquae abnegationem , omnia sane tranquilliore cursu incedere videbantur , nec audiebantur magnae querelae , nec insignis aliqua dissensio aut repugnantia cernebatur nec deerant ( quanquam male ) qui ecclesias vestras ut vobis placeant ac gratificarentur corpore saltem , etsi non animo frequentabant , legi● hic jesuitico atramento depicta , — puta minus hic dici , plus intelligi . bishop andrew's torturâ torti , p. 148 , 149. ita religio in anglia mutata , orbe christiano mirante quod tam facile & sine 〈◊〉 cambden . elizab. p. 36 , 39. ex hac religionis mutatjone ut observarunt politici anglia facta est omnium reguorum in orbe christiano liberrima — & oputentior quam secrdis superioribus . p. 40. vid. bull. pontif . apud combd . p. 179. synod . lond. an. 1603. c. 30. tantum aberat ut ecclesia anglicana ab italiae , galliae , hispaniae , germaniae , aliisve similibus ecclesiis voluerit per omnia recedere , quic quid eas sciret tenere aut observare ut ( quod ecclosiae anglicanae apologia profitetur . ) cenemonias illas cum reverentia susciperet quae utra ecclesiae incommodum & hominum sobriorum offensionem retinere posse senserat , & in iis tantum articulis à praedictis ecclesiis dissentiret in quibus eadem ipsae tum à pristina sua integritate prius desciverant , tum etiam ab ecclesiis apostolicis à quibus proseminatae sunt . that is , we only separate from and reform their errors , but do not separate from their persons and communion . see how the church of england does communicate with all churches in the vindication of bishop gunning the late lord bishop of ely , by dr. saywell , in his evangelical and catholick unity , pag. 302 , &c. guide in controversy dis . 3. c. 8. n. 84. b. churches coordinate may without schism or fault differ from one another , or one of them from all the rest in several doctrines and opinions , &c. thus he vindicates the church of rome wherein it differs from the greek and other churches , and by the same reason other churches may differ from her without schism or fault . heb. 13. 17. firmil . inter ep. cypr. 75. de stephano epis. romano ait peccatum verò quam magnum tibi exaggerasti , quando te à tot gregibus scidisti , excidisti . n. teipsum : noli te fallere . siquidem ille est verè schismaticus qui se à communione ecclesiasticae unitatis apostatam fecerit , dum n. putas omnes à te abstinere posse , solum te ab omnibus abstinuisti . s. cyprian did joyn with fermilian in the same cause , and it was thought by them in those early days that there was no obligation to adhere to the bishop of rome , and if he did excommunicate any upon such account ; he did cut himself off from the unity of the catholick church . unless in such matters , wherein the whole church did agree , with the bishop of rome ; and yet though st. cyprian lived and died , in opposition to the bishop o● rome , as much as we do now , he is more honoured , and of greater renown in the church , than pope stephen himself . vide ep. jo. launoii . jacob. bevilaqu . tom. 8. compare our english form with the ancient forms in morinus de ordinationibus , and you will find nothing wanting that is essential . see the protector 's letter to bishop gardner quoted below . burn. hist. part . 2. pag. 276. vid. pet. de marca . de concord . sacerdotii & imper. lib. 8. & alibi . jo. launoi . ep. hen. gondrino sen. arch. t. 8. out of archbishop parker . exod. 21. 14. 1 chron. 22. 8. dist. 50. c. 8. siquis viduam , &c. decret . lib. 5. de homicid . voluntar . 15. q. 6. c. 3 , 4. 5. decret . lib. 5. de haeret . c. 13. sext . decret . lib. 2. tit. 14. c. 2. ad apostolicam tit. papa imperatorem deponere porest . thomas . 2. 2dae q. 12. art. 2. see acts & mon. vol. 2. p. 337. &c. tortur . tort. p. 150. nihil ab iit quesitum ut facerent quam quid his jam anto fecerant sub . hen. scit . 8. & ed. 6. heathus , bonnerus . tonstallus , thurlbeius tum episcopl ; baynus , burnus , reliqui , nondum episcopi — aliis quoque ut praestarent authores fuere etiam idorum quidam libris scriptis defenderent quid hic iniqui si de eodem iterum compellentur . vid. bull pii 5. apud cambd. p. 179. tortur . tort. p. 148. audet apologia author asserere neminem [ pontificiorum ] religionis causa in judicium vocasse [ reginam scil . ] neminem ad supplicium condemnasse quamdiu scili cet rem religionisagerent , nec cum religione rebellionis semina permiscerent , neque priusquam pius papa per bullas suas hic in angliam , per copias vero & cohortes suas ibi etiam in hiberniam impetum & impressionem fecisset . hic plumbo ibi ferro , in anglia clavibus in hibernia gladiis rem gessisset . conf. aug. c. 10. chem. exam . ger. de coena dom. cal. l. 4. instit . c. 17. §. 19. john 6. 53. card. bona rer. lit. l. 2. c. 18. semper & ubique ab ecclesiae primordiis usque adseculum xii subspeciepanis & vini , &c. coll. of record . part 2. p. 155. this is our express pleasure's — where there is a full consent of others the bishops and learned men in a truth , not to suffer you , or a few others with wilful headiness to disswade all the rest . about the beginning of the queen's reign bishop jewel's defence of the apol. 2. part . ed. 1567. p. 130. our bishops are made in form and order as they have been ever by free election of the chapter , by consecration of the archbishop and other three bishops . — p. 131. to be short , we succeed the bishops that have been before our days . we are elected , consecrated , confirmed , as they were . that they concurred in consecrating archbishop parker , &c. see mr. mason de minister . angl. p. 353. out of the regist. cambd. eliz. p. 38. bishop godwin de presulib . angl. in vita parkeri . archbishop bramhall . the consecration and succession of the protestant bishops justified , and many others . cambd. elix . p. 36. see cambd. elix . p. 179. 1 acts 20. 2 artic of the church of engl. 37. 3 the book of ordination , receive the holy ghost for the office and work of a bishop in the church of god , now committed unto thee by the imposition of our hands . ignat. ep. ad smyrn . & trall . tertull. de bapt. c. 17. 4 cypr. ep. 68. 1 tim. 3. 7. matt. 18. 17. can. apost . 1. concil . nicen. can. 4. matt. 28. 19. 20. 1 see what opposition was made by the pope and jesuits to the divine right of episcopacy in the council of trent , in the hist. of father paul & card. pallavicini : 2 bp. andrews , bp. bilson , bp. dounham , bp. hall , bp. taylor , dr. hammond , dr. heylin , &c. 3 petrus de marca . de concordia regni & sacerdotii lib. 3. c. 5. n. 1. antiquo juri universalis ecclesiae assensu roborato successit jus novum quod anno domini 836. publicari cepit adnitente nicolao primo & allis pontificibus , &c. voell . in praefat. ad codic . can , justell . pag. 1. jus novum veteri successit circa annum christi 836 & paulatim invaluit in occidente , &c. this new law was the pope's usurping the power of choosing and confirming of bishops and receiving the last appeals from all churches , which before did belong to the archbishops and bishops of the province , as the general councils do shew , & de mayca , and others , have learnedly , proved , and so acknowledge that usurpation which we charge upon the pope . see our articles , liturgy , and canons ; besides , we retain great part of the ancient canon law , though we reject the jus novum , brought in by the pope 836 years after christ. see b. andrews tortur . tort. from p. 144. to 152. largely shewing the treasons and cruelties of the papists , and the mercy and the clemency of the reformers , besides what does appear in acts and monuments , and other histories of those times . bp. andrews tortur . torti pag. 146. cambr. eliz. p. 28. adeo indignati sunt lincolnsensis & wintoniensis [ watsonus & whitus ] ut regina & ●iljus ab ecclesiae romana defectionis authoris excommunicationis censura feriendos censuerunt qui ab hanc causam incarcerati . prudentiores à. pontifici romano hanc potius committendam esse statuerunt . acts & mon. vol. 3. p. 988. camb. eliz. p. 36. the sum of a conference had between two divines of the church of england and two catholic lay-gentlemen at the request and for the satisfaction of three persons of quality, august 8, 1671. gooden, peter, d. 1695. 1687 approx. 77 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41431) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 102856) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1571:5) the sum of a conference had between two divines of the church of england and two catholic lay-gentlemen at the request and for the satisfaction of three persons of quality, august 8, 1671. gooden, peter, d. 1695. 40 p. printed by henry hills ... for him and matthew turner, london : 1687. attributed by wing and nuc pre-1956 imprints to gooden. "the two divines : edward stillingfleet and gilbert burnet. the two catholic lay-gentlemen: edward coleman and edward meredith"--nuc pre-1956 imprints. reproduction of original in the trinity college library, cambridge university. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng burnet, gilbert, 1643-1715. stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. schism. reformation -england. 2007-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-10 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-11 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2007-11 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the sum of a conference had between two divines of the church of england . and two catholic lay-gentlemen . at the request , and for the satisfaction of three persons of quality , august 8. 1671. publisht with allowance . london , printed by henry hills , printer to the king 's most excellent majesty , for his houshold and chappel , for him and matthew turner . 1687. the publisher to the reader . since printing of conferences seems now in vogue , i will venture to be in the new mode ; i have so good an example of it before me , that i hope no body will take it ill if i follow it . in the year 1676. there happen'd a conference about points of religion , between some protestant divines , and some roman-catholic gentlemen , which after a long silence , has been now lately set out the second time , in a fine dress , and with a long preface : this gave me the curiosity to seek further into those matters , and meeting accidentally with a copy of another conference held in 1671. wherein some of the same persons were concern'd , i thought good to present you with it . by it 's plain expressions and unstudied discourse , you may easily judge it to be the naked truth of what was then spoken . peruse it , and think seriously of it . the sum of a conference had between two divines of the church of england , and two catholic lay-gentlemen , at the request and for the satisfaction of three persons of quality , aug. 8. 1671. the persons for whom the conference was intended , desir'd the subject might be schism . subject agreed . drs. it is fit we presuppose some principles before we enter into dispute . cath. content . dr. 1. schism is a wilful separation from the communion of the church , without cause . cath. tho' we know very well there can be no cause of schism , yet we will admit ( to come quickly to the question ) your notion of schism with these words without cause in your definition of it . dr. 2. another principle is , men may without crime separate from a communion , in which they cannot continue without sin. cath. agreed . dr. 3. there are certain laws antecedent to communion , by which every particular person ought to judge what communion he ought to be of , or forsake . cath. we do admit , that there are external motives antecedent to communion , which do induce and oblige a particular person to choose the communion of which he ought to be a member , and to which he ought , being a member , to submit in faith and government , of which every particular person may and ought to judge : but we do deny , that the interior doctrins or general practices of a communion are subject to the judgment of every particular man ; so that every private person judging this or that doctrin or practice to be false , heretical , or idolatrous , ( tho' the communion , of which he is a member , judges it catholic and orthodox , ) has lawful cause to separate himself from that communion , without being guilty of criminal schism ; for without this distinction there could be no such thing as schism in the world. dr. you must prove us guilty of criminal schism . cath. we will. in the year 1517 , you wilfully separated from the communion of the church , without cause ; ergo you are criminal schismatics . dr. i do deny that the separation in the year , 1517 , do's concern us ; nor do we think our selves oblig'd to defend or justifie it ; we do only maintain , that the church of england is not guilty of criminal schism . cath. the same argument presses the church of england , as the lutherans ; let it be therefore put thus . in king hen. the 8th . ed. the 6th . or queen elizabeths days ( date the birth of your church from what time you please ) you wilfully separated from the communion of the church without cause ; ergo you , the church of england , are guilty of criminal schism . dr. i deny your antecedent , we did not separate without cause . cath. i prove it . if you had lawful cause , you can assign it ; but you cannot assign any lawful cause ; ergo you did separate without cause . dr. i will assign the cause , it was thus . in the — year of henry the 8th . the parliament declared , that the right of reforming the church of this kingdom was in the king ; upon which the king did reform , and upon this reformation the pope did excommunicate the king and kingdom , which excommunication was confirm'd by another pope in queen elizabeths days ; so that the pope by excommunicating made the schism , and not we by reforming . cath. the declaration above mentioned , and the reformation thereupon , were antecedent to the excommunication ; so that you must prove that the parliament had just power and authority to make that declaration , and to reform upon it , and that they did indeed reform , and not spoil the doctrin they undertook to mend ; for if it had not , all its proceedings were unjust and criminal ; and excommunication was but the just and proper punishment for that crime : and then sure it would be reckoned very strange , to say , that a lawful authority punishing an offender , is made guilty of the crime it punishes , by inflicting that punishment . dr. the parliament did not ascribe any new power to the king ; but only declar'd that the same was in him , which all ages appropriated to their kings , and was allow'd by all ; and i can shew from time to time , that the popes authority has been refus'd , and his legats forbid entrance into the kingdom several times . cath. i pray shew substantially ( if you can ) that the church of england before the reformation , did never at any time accept , or ( which is positive ) did at all times refuse the pope all sort of authority and superiority over them ; else to quarrel sometimes with his authority , or some part of it , or stop his legats , might be just : for that it is possible for a power which has lawful authority , to challenge and demand some sort of authority which is more than what is lawfully his ; and in such case the inferiors may at least remonstrate to their superiors , if not oppose them in such unlawful demands ; and this might be the case between the pope and the king of england at some particular time : at other times inferiors might be stubborn and disobedient , and for a time deny that to their superiors which is really due . therefore to say , that the kings of england did for a time oppose the pope in some things , is not enough to prove the declaration aforesaid ( which was universal , denying him all authority whatsoever , ) to be no ascribing of new power , but only a declaration , that the same power was in that king , which all ages appropriated to their kings , and was allow'd by all ; but the contrary , to what is now demanded to be prov'd ( and must be prov'd before that declaration can excuse the declarers from the guilt of causeless separation , and consequently criminal schism , and consequently of deserving justly excommunication ) is so evident , that i appeal to these present worthy persons , who are to judge in this point , whether this be not sufficiently manifest from the histories which they themselves have read , and the general confessions , which they themselves have met withal from very many even learned protestants , that the pope of rome was at least patriarch of the west , and , as such , had patriarchal authority , at least over the church of england , and therefore was allow'd to be the proper judge of ecclesiastical matters , the very day before the foresaid declaration was made ; and therefore was the only proper judge of the said declaration , and the authors of it , whether it were well and legally made : and this said judge having judicially determin'd the said declaration to be schismatical , condemned it legally , and justly excommunicated the authors . most certainly a declaration made by every one , that pretends power to make one , is not presently lawful , because it is pretended to be so . the late long parliament pretended to declare , that the supream power of england was in the people , and that the said people might judge and depose the king whenever he misused that power , which the people entrusted him withal ; and we know what followed upon it . i hope the doctor will not justifie that declaration , nor can he shew a disparity between this and the other , both being made by those , who were universally esteem'd , at the time they made them , subjects and inferiors to those against whose authority they made them , in those very points , concerning which they did then declare . drs. the pope was never content to be esteem'd barely the patriarch of the west ; and there is great difference between the two declarations , that in hen. eighth's time against the pope , and that in king charles the first 's time against his majesty . cath. it matters not now , whether the pope were content or no to be barely esteem'd patriarch of the west ; if he had reason to challenge more , that no ways justifies you ; do you allow , that he was patriarch ? if you do , answer the difficulty ; and say , how his inferiors came by a power to depose him ; and as to the difference between the two declarations , you must shew it us , before we believe there is any . gentlemen to the doctors . sirs , we do not doubt , but that the pope was allow'd some authority in england before the separation , we do not therefore desire to dispute that ; but supposing he had not , you separated your selves from the great body of all christians united before in one communion , we desire to know what cause you could have for that . drs. we had cause to separate , for that the communion from which we separated , taught false faith , and were guilty of idolatry ; i instance particularly in their doctrin of transubstantiation , and their adoring the host . cath. to the company . tho' you may be pleas'd to remember , that we did at first deny , that any particular person , ( and the same holds of particular diocesses , provinces , and nations , all which united make but one catholic church , and therefore the biggest of them all to be consider'd only as a member of the whole body ) has power to judge , and condemn the doctrins and practices of the whole church as false or idolatrous , when the body against this member says , that the said doctrins or practices are orthodox and catholic , so as to have lawful cause to separate from the said whole communion , without being guilty of criminal schism ; that what we said of a particular person , holds to a nation , or any inferior authority to a superior , is evident , upon supposition , that god has requir'd and commanded , that his church be one , which could not be , if a secular sovereign power has authority to break its unity , upon pretence of judging any one of it's doctrins or practices false or idolatrous : for if one may , another may ; and then swisserland may have as many religions and communions , as cantons , and the world as many churches as secular sovereigns , tho' god has said he will have but one : and here in england the bishops may as well wave the arch-bishops authority , private persons pretend to judge and censure the bishops power and authority , or any one man controul the authority of his pastor . tho' this we deny'd at first , and might therefore well refuse to proceed , till the doctors had prov'd , that a single person might condemn a whole church's doctrin legally , or a lesser authority , judge and censure a greater ; yet because perhaps this method may have been propos'd by your selves , we are content to do any thing for your satisfaction : but then you must be pleas'd ( considering our communion at the time of the separation was infinitly greater than the reformers , as learned and as holy , for ought any body knows , and in possession for many hundred years of the doctrins and practices now condemn'd by these reformers ) to demand more clear and evident proofs against our doctrins than we bring for them : for upon but equal proof , we that are forty to one ( and every whit as learned as the others , especially having receiv'd , what we profess , from our fore-fathers , from christs time , for ought any body knows ; for no body can say when what we hold and practise begun ) have no reason to submit to so much a less number , at the charge of so great a confusion , as must needs happen , and god's command of unity be broke into the bargain . you must therefore demand the most evident proofs that nature can admit of , to prove those doctrins of theirs , upon which they ground their separation , or else it will be criminal schism , and you must desert their communion . if they attempt to prove it from scripture , they must not bring obscure passages out of it , to oppose or interpret clear ones ; for that is not to explicate , but to confound ; not to draw light and truth out of scripture , but to cast more darkness upon it . neither can an obscure and doubtful title lawfully or reasonably cast any body out of the possession of a belief , for which he has clear and evident ones to shew . they must therefore bring texts that prove their points in terms ; for their interpretation is no more to be allow'd of than ours , and scripture ought to be taken literally , where the literal sense does not imply a contradiction . note . it may be reasonably suppos'd , that these undeniable principles were the cause , why the doctors ( as it will appear in all this conference ) would never venture upon any citation of the scripture to prove their doctrin , for which they separated from the roman church , acknowledged then universally for the true church , but were forc'd to fly to some obscure sentences of the fathers , even which will yet appear to make more for the roman church , than for the reformers . drs. all scriptures ought not to be expounded literally , which do not imply a contradiction in a literal sense : i am a vine , ought not to be expounded literally , yet it implies no contradiction , or at least no more than this , christ is bread. cath. i am a vine does imply a contradiction , for christ cannot be christ and a vine at the same time ; christ is bread , is also a contradiction ; but where is that proposition in scripture ? or what catholic in the world holds it ? we say , that which was bread ceases to be bread , and becomes the body of christ , which is no more a contradiction than to say , that which was water , ceases to be water , and becomes wine . drs. that text you build your faith upon , this is my body , implies a contradiction ; for it must signifie , this bread is my body , which is as much a contradiction , as christ is a vine , or christ is bread , which you have acknowledg'd already for a contradiction ; or else it must be an identical enuntiation , and signifie , this my body is my body . cath. this bread is my body , is a contradiction , but cannot be meant in the text ; for in all languages ( but english ) where the word which signifies this is alter'd according to the different gender the antecedent is of , to which this word should relate , it is always put in the neuter gender , hoc in latin , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greek , which it could not be , if it were to agree with bread , or have relation to it , that being always masculin , as panis in latin , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greek ; therefore to say , this bread in the latin or greek language , would be false grammer ; and english , i suppose , has no reason to govern the other languages , but they it , they being more and old , against one and new . nor need it be , this body is my body ; the particle this is a pronoun demonstrative , signifying only some exterior object undetermind'd , as to its nature or name , without some other additional word , as this is a horse , this is a hat , are , i hope , proper speeches , and therefore no identical enuntiations . this only supposes an object existing and expos'd to sense , and determin'd by the following word hat or horse , of what nature and quality it is . besides , this is my body , is an efficient proposition , and is the cause of the change , which is not wrought till the proposition be compleated , and therefore this is not determin'd till the whole be pronounc'd . drs. it is impossible it should be taken in your sense , for transubstantiation cannot be without a miracle ; and no miracle can be without appearing so to sense ; nay , it would destroy all possibility of judging of any other miracle , they being not to be discern'd but by sense , which cannot be rely'd upon , if it may be deceiv'd in this . cath. a miracle may be , and yet not appear to sense to be so , yet ought to be believ'd : for the hypostatical union was never discern'd by sense , yet is believ'd a true miracle ; so that your first proposition is false . to your second , i pray say , whether it be possible for god to make a thing appear to sense to be , what it is not : then supposing it possible , may not god discover to man that he has made a thing to appear one thing , and to be another , as well as he has discover'd , that the divinity was united to christs humanity , tho' no such thing appear'd ? if he may and do's , ought i to believe gods word against my own senses , or my senses against gods word ? notwithstanding this , my senses shall judge of a miracle at all times , unless when god assures me upon his word , that his omnipotency has interpos'd between my senses and their natural object . drs. but we will shew you by the fathers , and not of the first 300 years , but since , that your doctrin was not held , neither in the greek nor latin church . cath. we do expect you should shew us by the scripture and fathers of all ages , ( and do not care to be complemented or spar'd as to the first 300 years , if you have any authority from those times , let us see them ) and very clearly , that your contrary doctrin was held , else you cannot be justified or excused from schism in your separation . dr. it is sufficient to shew against you , that your doctrin has not had that constant succession you boast of : and that i will do by producing instances plain and clear , that your doctrin was not maintain'd in one certain age since christ . cath. tho' that can never justifie your separation , or make your communion safe ; for if it were not safe to stay in the roman communion , because a doctrin believ'd by them , was in one age since christs time , not believ'd , it can never be safe to abide in yours , where many doctrins are now believ'd , which you acknowledge were not believ'd by the true church for many hundred years together : yet let us hear your proofs . dr. i will shew you a homily us'd in the saxon church , from which you shall see how that church and your augustin agree in this doctrin . cath. at least 't is some kindness to grant augustin to be ours , who converted england above 1000 years ago . narr . truly the homily we did never see before , nor never heard of it , nor do we know what credit it bears , nor can i remember the words exactly ; but in the first place the doctor quoted , for he produc'd two , the sense was , that the bread and wine which the priest consecrated at mass , was turn'd into the true body and blood of christ ; which text we pray'd the doctor to read in english , which he did ; and after a little stumble at the word missam , he told us , he car'd not tho' he render'd it mass , which he did ; this very quotation we urg'd against him ; but he told us this must be explain'd by another , in which he brought us the same , or like words again concerning the change , but at the end of the sentence were these words in a distinct remarkable character , not corporally but spiritually . where , or by whom this book was printed , we could not learn , or what authority it was of ; but it might very well be authentick , for all that distinction , it being frequently us'd by modern catholics , who are not deny'd to hold the doctrin of transubstantiation ; they commonly say , that it is not chang'd corporally , taking corporally to signifie carnally ; as the capharnaits understood our blessed lord , when he spoke of this mystery ; but spiritually , taking that to signfie , as st. paul uses the word spiritual , speaking of the resurrection , where he says , it is sown a natural body , it rises a spiritual body . there is a natural body , and there is a spiritual body ; now if this way of speaking be frequently us'd by those who are , notwithstanding such an expression , confess'd to hold transubstantiation ; why must it signifie more evidently the contrary doctrin in this author , than it do's in others , especially when this author delivers the roman doctrin in this point , in his other expressions , as evidently and plainly as can be , and cites the mass as the doctor confesses ? but he stood not much upon this question , but laid his whole stress upon two others . dr. i will prove now evidently , that your doctrin was contradicted in the fifth age , both by the greek and latin church ; nay by a pope of rome himself : for gelasius disputing against the eutychians , who maintain'd , that the human nature of christ was chang'd into the divine nature , so that there was but one nature in christ ; confuted their heresie , by shewing , that the human nature was no more chang'd into the divine nature , than bread was chang'd into the body of christ ; that is , not at all ; for gelasius has these express words : certe sacramenta , quae sumimus , corporis & sanguinis christi , divina res est , propter quod & per eadem efficimur divinae consortes naturae ; & tamen esse non desinit substantia vel natura panis & vini ; & certe imago & similitudo corporis & sanguinis in actione mysteriorum celebrantur ; which is in english thus , truly the sacraments of the body and blood of christ which we take , is a divine thing , and by them we are made partakers of the divine nature ; and yet the substance or nature of bread and wine , do not cease to be ; and truly the image and similitude of the body and blood of christ are celebrated in the action of the mysteries : where it is evident , that the substance of bread and wine , is not chang'd into the body and blood of christ . theodoret proves the same thing ; for he says , the mystical signs after consecration do not recede from their nature , but do remain in their former substance , figure and form , and may be seen , and touch'd as before ; this evidently contradicts transubstantiation . cath. to the company . we desire you to remember , that you must have clear proofs to justifie the alteration , much clearer than those in possession can bring for the doctrin they continue to hold , and which the others would reform : be pleas'd to consider these two quotations here brought ( i suppose the clearest they have , if not all they have ) and if they do not appear clear against them , i am confident they will appear , either non-sense or contradictions , and far enough from being clearer for them , than any we can bring for our doctrin ; which yet they ought to be , to excuse their schism from being wilful and criminal . we will examin theodoret first . he writes against eutyches ( as the doctor has told you ) which he do's by way of dialogue between eranistes an eutychian , and orthodoxus , which is himself , in these words . eranist . it happens luckily that you speak of the divine mysteries , for even from that very thing i will shew you , that the body of our lord is chang'd into another nature ; answer me therefore to what i ask . orthodox . i will answer . eran. what do you call that gift which is brought , before the invocation of the priest ? orth. that which is made nourishment of a certain grain . eran. how do we call the other sign ? orth. a common name , which signifies a kind of drink . eran. but after consecration what do you call them ? orth. the body of christ , and the blood of christ . eran. and do you believe that you are made partaker of the body and blood of christ ? orth. i do believe it . eran. as therefore the symbol of the lord's body and blood are one thing before the invocation of the priest , and after the invocation are chang'd and are made another thing : so the body of our lord after assumption is chang'd into the divine substance . orth. thou art catch'd in the net , which thou thy self hast woven : for the mystical signs after consecration do not recede from their nature , but do remain in their former substance and figure and form , and may be touch'd as before ; but are understood to be what they are made , and are believ'd , and are ador'd as being the same things which they are believ'd . cath. i pray be pleas'd to ask the doctor whether this whole discourse now cited be not built and founded upon the supposition of transubstantiation . drs. i do acknowledge the argument is founded upon that supposition ; but it is brought by an heretic , an eutychian , which is not much for the credit of your doctrin . cath. yes , we account it much for the credit of our doctrin , that you cannot name any age , in which you are not forc'd to allow , that it was profess'd . you say it was profess'd in this age only by heretics : make that out , if you can , more clear than i will the contrary ; i do assure you , your two quotations will not do it , as i will shew you presently ; but the contrary seems evident , viz. that the heretics did not differ from the catholics in this point : for eutyches , who was condemn'd at a general council , for maintaining one nature only in christ , would certainly have been condemn'd at the same time for holding transubstantiation , had it been esteem'd an error by that age , especially so absurd , monstrous , and idolatrous an one , as doctor — calls it in his new book ; but he was not condemn'd , nor so much as accus'd of error in this point , either by council , or any particular writer of those many , which have wrote against him , and yet you do acknowledge , that he and his adherents held transubstantiation : besides , you confess that his argument was against an orthodox catholic , founded upon this supposition ; therefore most certainly he took it for granted , that the catholics allow'd the supposition ; for it would have been ridiculous to dispute upon a supposition , which he knew his adversary deny'd . i should account it absurd for me to argue against a protestant upon supposition of transubstantiation , which i know they deny ; and so it would have been in eranist , if he had not known that his adversary own'd that doctrin ▪ which he made the foundation of his argument . besides , theodoret himself , an orthodox catholic , making this discourse by way of dialogue , would make himself ridiculous to frame it upon a supposition which he deny'd . after all this , the place now cited , is so far from being so clear against us , as it ought to be to vanquish our standing possession , that the century-writers of magdeburg , who were great enemies of popery and transubstantiation , do condemn theodoret of that doctrin from this very place , and do say he speaks dangerously of the lords supper , in saying , that after consecration the symbols of our lords body and blood are changed and made another thing . and the words next after these , which you quote as such clear ones against our doctrin , must either import idolatry according to the aforesaid new book , or nonsense , if they do not imply the actual presence of christs person by transubstantiation ; for he says , they ( the mystical signs ) are understood what they are made and believ'd , and are ador'd as being the same things they are believ'd : so that the whole sense is thus ; the symbols of our lord's body and bloud are one thing before , and another after consecration ; yet they continue so in their nature , substance , figure , and form , as to be seen and touch'd as before ; but are understood to be what they are made by consecration , and are believ'd , and are ador'd as being the same thing they are believ'd , i. e. notwithstanding they are chang'd , they appear to our sense ( as to their nature , substance , &c. ) to be seen and touch'd as before : but are believ'd to be somewhat else , i. e. what they are made : and this belief is not chimerical or imaginary , but the things are really what they are believ'd to be , and for that they are so , are ador'd ; so that they must be really chang'd into christ's body , for else they could not be ador'd without idolatry : the very words , as they lay , convinc'd the magdeburgenses , that theodoret held transubstantiation ; and , i suppose , had not these two words nature and substance been in the quotation but only figure and form , we had never heard of it at this time . if therefore i shew you , that nature and substance are frequently taken to signifie that which is as consistent with our exposition , and the catholic meaning of theodoret , as figure and form in this place are , i shall not only make it cease to be clear against us , but also shew that it will be clear for us . nature and substance do sometimes signifie what the philosophers call properly substance , as distingush'd from accidents , i. e. matter and form. and thus taken it can be no object of sense , can neither be seen nor touch'd . sometimes it signifies the properties , natural qualities , and accidents with which those substances are cloathed . physicians frequently say , that they have the substance of herbs in their medicins , when they have only the vertue of those herbs , and not all the matter and form : so we say of meat , that it has but little juice or substance , when it has but little vertue or good natural qualities . the fathers say , that the substance of man was deprav'd by original sin , i. e. the inclinations and natural affections : st. paul says , that by nature we are the children of wrath , that the gentiles by nature perform the law : in all which speeches , and a hundred other , nature and substance do not signifie strictly , as philosophers use those words , when they are oppos'd to accidents , but popularly and vulgarly , and signifie no more than properties , conditions , qualities , &c. now supposing theodoret to take substance and nature in this place , in the latter sense , and to mean by them no more than the exterior substance , or visible and sensible qualities of bread and wine , the text is evidently for us . and that the father must take the words in this popular sense , is evident from the whole discourse : for he says first , that before consecration they are one thing , and after consecration they are chang'd and made another thing : now if they be chang'd and made another thing , the change must be either in the interior or exterior substance ; but it is most plain , they are not chang'd in the exterior substance , for as to that , they remain visibly the same , and do not recede from their nature , as sense assures us ; ergo , it must be in their interior substance , which is not liable to sense ; and therefore , as the father in this very place says , they are seen and touch'd as before , but are believ'd to be another thing , i. e. what they are made , and are ador'd as being what they are believ'd . the doctor has told you in the late book i mentioned , the danger of adoring any thing but god ; therefore , according to him , this father must hold these symbols he here speaks of , to be chang'd into the body of our lord , before they become the object of adoration , or else he must be guilty of idolatry , in teaching that something besides god ought to be ador'd , i. e. worship'd with divine honor. as to the place quoted out of gelasius , the same distinction above of the sense of the words , nature and substance , solves that ; and that there must be such a distinction in the words of this father , is most evident ; for without that , he contradicts himself in the words quoted ; for he has two words five times in ten lines ; and if in all these places they must signifie strictly , the father talks nonsense , and so , far enough from being a good authority to justifie a separation . but if the words must be taken in divers senses , and it not being evident which sense is applicable to this or that place , then it is at least uncertain and dark , and consequently not fit ( as not being so clear as it should ) to justifie a separation . but if the place it self , from its own terms , disposes us to apply the strict sense in this or that part , and the popular sense in this or that other , so as to countenance transubstantiation , then this quotation will be very far from doing them any service . now let us consider the words : he says , by the sacrament we are made partakers of the divine nature , yet the substance or nature of bread and wine do not cease to be . if nature must be taken strictly and philosophically in both places , then we are made partakers of the divine nature strictly and philosophically , and not only effectually or virtually : then the divine nature must be actually there , and yet the nature of bread and wine will not cease to be there ; so that this perhaps thus far might favour lutheranism , but can no way help the church of england : then follow these words , and surely the image and similitude of the body and blood of christ are celebrated in the action of those mysteries . we do own this expression , and do acknowledge it is frequent amongst the fathers to say , that the blessed sacrament is a figure of christ's passion , and that the exterior substances , which we see , are a figure to us of the interior substance of christ's body and blood , which we see not , but are to believe to be contain'd under those species : then he goes on and says , therefore it appears evidently enough to us , that that is to be understood by us in our lord christ himself , which we profess in the image of him , observe , that image is here us'd , as we said above , we celebrate and take them , and even as they pass into this , to wit , the divine substance , by the power of the holy spirit , remaining notwithstanding in the property of their nature , &c. we spoke to the signification of the word nature above , speaking to the foregoing words of this father : now let us consider the word substance , which the protestants must have to signifie strictly and philosophically in the words before , or else this quotation proves nothing : but that being suppos'd , they must shew us , that it signifies otherways in these last words , they pass into the divine substance , or else they must grant , that it signifies strictly here also ; and then it is nonsense , for it amounts to thus much , the elements of bread and wine pass into the divine substance strictly and philosophically , and we are made partakers of the divine nature strictly , &c. yet the substance and nature of bread and wine do not cease to be strictly and philosophically . can any body understand this ? what does pass into the divine substance ? nothing sure , if the nature and substance of bread and wine taken strictly and philosophically do remain : but the internal substance of bread and wine may well pass into the divine substance , and yet the exterior nature and substance of bread and wine , signifying the properties and accidents of bread and wine , may well remain . and that this must be the sense of the father , is plain enough from his own words ; for he says absolutely , and without any limitation , that they pass into the divine substance , which must be meant of the interior substance of bread and wine , if any ; for 't is clear , the exterior remains , and does not pass . but then again , he qualifies too the nature , which he says remains , and calls it the property of their nature remaining : which expression does , as we think , clear the distinction , and determins to which side the strict , and to which the popular sense ought to be apply'd : at least , we are sure there can be no clear evidence from hence against us , which yet we must have before we can be remov'd from the long possession , which we have had of a doctrin and practice of such concern as this . drs. the exposition now given , cannot be possibly the fathers meaning , for that that sense would quite enervate the force of the answer ; for the answer must be proper to the argument , which it is intended to answer , and to the point which the argument was made use of to prove : now the point to be prov'd was the doctrin of the eutychians , viz. that the human nature of christ was chang'd into the divine ; to prove which , the eutychians urg'd the change in the sacrament , and from thence urg'd to the change of the natures ; to which the father answer'd , that there was no change in the sacrament , nor no more change in the natures , than there was in the other : this must needs be the meaning of the father . cath. the exposition above given by us makes the fathers words very much more a proper answer to the eutychians argument , than they could be otherways ; for whereas he asserted an absolute and total conversion of the human nature in christ , into the divine , so that it was wholly devour'd and swallow'd up by it , like a drop of hony by the sea ; and endeavor'd to illustrate it from the change of the bread and wine in the sacrament into the body and blood of christ , as a point acknowledg'd by both parties ; to this the father answer'd , that the very instance he gave was against himself ; for that after the change in the sacrament , there were still two natures remaining , viz. the nature of christs body in the strict sense , and the nature of bread as above explicated , for the natural properties , in the popular sense . and this being sufficient to retort the eutychian's argument upon himself , by shewing him there was not such a change in the sacrament , as he vainly imagin'd in the incarnation , it was all that was necessary for the father's design in that place : for as for the interior change , himself acknowledged it , as well as the eutychian . are these all the authorities you have ? dr. these are enough , for they are very plain . cath. we will leave that to judgment : but withal , we hope the company will remember , they must be much plainer than any we can bring for our selves : we therefore desire now to shew some for us . and because we will shew how truly the doctor has asserted , that in an age since the first 300 years , this doctrin was generally contradicted , and the contrary doctrin , viz. that of the church of england , generally profess'd and taught ( for that he must be suppos'd to have design'd to prove , or else he do's nothing in justification of his separation ) and has pitch'd upon the fifth century to make good his assertion , we will insist particularly upon the authority of fathers of that very century : and first , we desire him to consider , st. austin , tom. 8. in psal . 98. printed at venice , an. 1584. where he says , exaltate dominum deum nostrum , & adorate scabellum pedum ejus , quoniam sanctum est : quid habemus adorare ? scabellum pedum ejus ; sed videte fratres , quid nos jubeat adorare . alio loco scriptura dicit , coelum mihi sedes est , terra autem scabellum pedum meorum . ergo terram nos jubet adorare , quia alio loco dixit , quod sit scabellum dei , & quomodo adorabimus terram , cum dicat aperte scriptura , dominum deum tuum adorabis , & hic dicit , adorate scabellum pedum ejus ? exponens autem mihi quid sit scabellum pedum ejus , dicit , terra autem scabellum pedum meorum : anceps factus sum , timeo adorare terram , ne damnet me , qui fecit coelum & terram : rursum timeo non adorare scabellum pedum domini mei , quia psalmus mihi dicit , adorate scabellum pedum ejus . quaero quid sit scabellum pedum ejus , & dicit mihi scriptura , terra scabellum pedum meorum . fluctuans converto me ad christum , quia ipsum quaero hic , & invenio quomodo sine impietate adoretur terra , sine impietate adoretur scabellum pedum ejus : suscepit enim de terra terram , quia caro de terra est , & de carne mariae carnem accepit ; & quiain ipsa carne hic ambulavit , & ipsam carnem nobis manducandam ad salutem dedit ; nemo autem illam carnem manducat , nisi prius adoraverit ; inventum est quomodo adoretur tale scabellum pedum domini & non solum non peccemus adorando , sed peccenius non adorando . we desire the doctor will be pleas'd to put this place of the father into english , that the company may judge of the sense of it , especially at the latter end , which is chiefly to our purpose . dr. i will , it is thus . wavering i turn my self to christ , because i seek him here , and i find how the earth may be ador'd without impiety ; without impiety his foot-stool may be ador'd ; for of earth he took earth , because flesh is of earth , and he took flesh of the flesh of the virgin mary ; and because he walked here in that flesh , and gave that flesh to us to eat for our salvation ; but no man eats that flesh , unless he first adores ; we have found out how such a footstool of our lord may be ador'd , and not only not sin by adoring , but we sin by not adoring , this is the english of the words quoted , which makes nothing against us , for we in the church of england , do always adore when we do receive . cath. what do you adore when you receive ? do you adore that which you do receive ? if you do , then that which you receive is the flesh of christ , or you are idolaters , as lately great pains has been taken to prove . if you do not adore that which you receive , as the object of your adoration , but something else , then you will find that st. austin is against you , for that he ador'd the footstool , that is , the flesh i. e. that flesh which is eaten ; for it were impossible to think , that the father could be in that doubt and trouble which he expresses , about the question , whether christ were to be ador'd or no ? he is concern'd about the footstool , which he endeavors to make so plain , that he repeats the same thing over and over again , and tells his fear of adoring or not adoring : at length he says , by footstool , ( because earth is the footstool ) is meant christs flesh , in which flesh he walk'd here , which very flesh he gave to us to eat , which very flesh no man eats , but he first adores , what ? the flesh of christ sure : and if that flesh he gave to eat , be the same flesh he took from our blessed lady , and in which he walk'd , as the father says here most absolutely , then surely flesh to be eaten , is as much the object of adoration , as that he took and walked in , which i hope the doctor will not deny , but was to be ador'd . so that now , says the father ( having just before spoken of the flesh which christ gave us to eat , and which no man eats without first adoring ) i have found out how such a footstool ought to be ador'd , and that we do not only not sin by adoring , but we sin by not adoring such a footstool , to wit , flesh , which was given us to eat . besides the adoration the doctor speaks of , may be given at any time , and before any thing , as well as bread and wine in the sacrament ; for if it be only the person of christ sitting in heaven , which ought to be ador'd , and is ador'd when we are put in mind of him by such instruments ; we might as well fall down and adore the person of christ in heaven , when we see an image of him , because that puts us in mind of him ( which yet the above named doctor says is idolatry ) or take a piece of common bread at ones house , remembring by it what christ once did with bread , fall down and adore before that bread. nar. st. ambrose , who was somewhat elder than st. austin , and his master , has the plainest quotations to prove this point that can possibly be , in his book , de iis qui mysteriis initiantur . cap. 9. in his fourth book , de sacramentis , cap. 4. & cap. 5. which books we desir'd ; but the doctor being in his own house ( tho' he confess'd he had the books ) he might chuse whether he would let us have them or no. and indeed for one reason or other we had them not , nor st. chrysostom of the same age , out of whom we would have shewn only his 83 d. homily , upon the 26th . of st. matthew , and his sermon of the eucharist in encoeniis , to prove our doctrin ; we would have shewn very many places from that father ; but having not these books , nor others we ask'd for , we were forc'd to quote some places without book , as one out of st. gregory nyss . orat. catechet . cap. 37. verbo dei sanctificatum panem in dei verbi corpus credo transmutari , &c. hoc autem fit virtute benedictionis in illud transelement at â eorum quae apparent naturâ . i do believe the bread sanctified by the word of god to be chang'd into the body of god the word , &c. but this is done by the power of consecration ( or blessing ) the nature of those things which appear being transelementated into it . st. cyril of jerusalem we had , out of whom we desir'd the doctor to read these following words in english . cum igitur christus ipse sic affirmet at que dicat de pane , hoc est corpus meum ; quis deinceps audeat dubitare ? ac eodem quoque confirmante ac dicente , hic est sanguis meus , quis inquam , dubitet & dicat non esse illius sanguinem ? aquam aliquando mutavit in vinum , quod est sanguini propinquum in cana galileae sola voluntate , & non erit dignus cui credamus , quod vinum in sanguinem transmutasset ? si enim ad nuptias corporeas invitatus stupendum miraculum operatus est , & non multo magis corpus & sanguinem suum filiis sponsae dedisse illum confitebimur ? quare , cum omni certitudine corpus & sanguinem christi sumamus : nam sub specie panis datur tibi corpus , & sub specie vini datur sanguis , ut sumpto corpore & sanguine christi efficiaris ei comparticeps corporis & sanguinis , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , christopheri erimus , hoc est , christum ferentes , cum ejus corpus & sanguinem in membra nostra receperimus , atque ita , ut beatus petrus dicit , divinae naturae consortes efficiemur , &c. hoc sciens , & pro certissimo habens panem hunc , qui videtur à nobis non esse panem , etiamsi gustus panem esse sentiat , sed esse corpus christi , & vinum quod à nobis conspicitur tametsi sensui gustus vinum esse videatur , non tamen vinum , sed sanguinem esse christi . sir , if you please , i will spare you the trouble , and render them my self ; and pray tell the company when i wrong the text : the english then of these words , is thus : when therefore christ himself affirms and says of bread , this is my body ; who afterwards will dare to doubt ? and the same also confirming and saying , this is my blood ; who , i say , may doubt and say , that it is not his blood ? he once chang'd water into wine , which is next to blood , in cana of galilee , by his only will ; and shall he not be worthy that we believe him that he chang'd wine into his blood ? for if being invited to a corporal wedding , he wrought so wonderful a miracle , shall we not much more confess , that he gave his body and blood to the sons of his own spouse ? wherefore let us take the body and blood of christ with all assurance ; for under the species ( or appearance ) of bread , the body is given thee ; and under the species of wine , the blood is given : so that the body and blood of christ being taken , thou art made to him a fellow-partaker of his body and blood. we are made christophori , i. e. bearers of christ , when we take his body and blood into our members . so as blessed st. peter says , we are made partakers of the divine nature , &c. knowing this , and holding it for most certain , that the bread which we see is not bread , though our tast judges it to be bread , but the body of christ : and the wine which we see , though it may appear wine to our sense of tasting ; yet is not wine , but the blood of christ . doctor , is this plain english , and is the father faithfully translated ? drs. we do not deny , but the fathers now cited , have the words quoted in their writings ; nor do we deny but that they are well enough english'd : but we do confess all they say ; for we of the church of england do own and acknowledge a very great change and alteration in the sacrament , and do not deny , but that the fathers do frequently make mention of some wonderful change ; but we do not undertake to determin magisterially , and say what manner of change this is , nor does our church impose such a determination , as a neccessary condition of communion with us , as the church of rome does ; and such a one as the fathers contradict , as we have shewn out of theodoret and gelasius . and this very father quoted here , viz. st. cyril , calls it bread and wine , at the same time that he calls it the body and blood of christ : for the first words of his quotation are , when christ affirms of bread , &c. you must shew that the substance of bread ceases . cath. the evidence you pretend to from theodoret and gelasius , we think we have spoke to sufficiently already . if the fathers do mention some wonderful change in the sacrament , and the protestants do agree with them in allowing that there is such a change , but cannot say what a one it is , what cause have they to separate from a great communion , even the whole visible catholic church upon earth ; when , for ought they know , this change which they grant , may be transubstantiation , which they deny , and make the cause of their separation , as being false ? for they acknowledge they know not how it is chang'd , and in such cases as this , i cannot imagine how they can attain a negative knowledge without a positive , i. e. how they can be certain it is not transubstantiation , when the whole catholic church said it was ; and not to be able to know certainly what it is ; especially when to believe right of this point , is an article of faith , conditional of man's salvation ; and therefore necessary to be believed in its true sense ; especially when the consequence of believing wrong will be blasphemy or idolatry in the practice . for if transelementation in st. gregory , and transmutation in st. cyril , both which terms the doctor owns and allows , should mean as much as transubstantiation ; then are the protestants guilty of heresie , in believing the wrong side of a proposition , which contains in it an article of faith ; and of blasphemy in practice , in robbing god of his honor , and using him like a creature . now what should make them think ( for know , i am sure they cannot ) that transelementation signifies less than transubstantiation ? for sure by elements are meant substances . moreover , in all changes , there must a term from which , and a term to which . in this change i desire to know the term from which , and to what it is chang'd : from bread to christ's body , were an answer intelligible , and agreeable to the terms by which the change is express'd : but to say from common bread to sanctified bread , is to talk very unintelligibly , and very unanswerably to the expression you use to this change ; for this would not be at all wonderful . we see churches and church-yards thus chang'd every day , from common to consecrated or sanctified places , and yet we think it no wonder , or account it no miracle ; yet we should wonder to hear one say , after consecrating a church or a churchyard , it were transelementated or chang'd wonderfully by the word of god , as st. gregory says ; or by the power of the holy spirit , as gelasius has it ; or by the omnipotency of god , as st. cyprian says , and many other fathers in such like expressions . you say , you do not determin the change , &c. the more to blame you . for if it be necessary to salvation , to believe right in this point , i. e. to believe that the object present to you after consecration , is the body of christ , if it be so ; and to believe it it is not , if it be not so ; then ought you at least to determin whether it be so or no , and make a firm assent to that your determination a necessary condition of communion with you ( a firm and actual belief of one of these two propositions , it is really the body of christ , or it is not , being a necessary condition of mans salvation . ) for sure you will hold , that that which is a necessary condition of salvation , ought to be made a necessary condition of communion ; therefore if you do not determin at least so far , as to say , it is , or it is not the body of christ , and require that this your determination be believ'd as a condition of communion with you , you do by the first , i. e. not determining , leave all people in your communion in a very great uncertainty , as to the condition of their salvation : for how can private persons have any kind of certainty in a disputed point , without some judicial determination of that dispute ? after which indeed , they may have certainty , or probability answerable to the authority of the determination , which will be infallible , if the authority be infallible ; or only a probability ; and that greater or less , according to the degrees of credit , which the authority may challenge , if that authority be but able to give a probable determination . by the second , viz. not requiring the belief of your determination , as a condition of communion , in case you do determin , you do consess that heretics and blasphemers , or heretics and idolaters , may be of your communion , tho' professedly such , i. e. you do allow your communion to them who observe not the condition of their salvation . for if determining it not to be the body of christ , you do not make the belief of this determination , a condition of communion , you do allow those that believe contradictorily , ( i. e. that it is the body christ , and in consequence of that belief make it the formal object of adoration , ) to be of your communion ; and yet if your determination be true , these last , who believe and adore , as a aforesaid , are idolaters , and do break thereby the condition of their salvation . now i leave to the judgment of the company , whether this undetermined doctrin of yours be a lawful cause for you to separate from the church you were once members of , and was acknowledg'd the true church , to believe you know not what your selves ; for i am sure you cannot determin what change it is . as to the term bread used by the father , it can create no difficulty ; for when we said , as we did at first , that all scripture was to be expounded literally , if the literal sense did not imply a contradiction ; we did suppose that in case it did imply a contradiction , it ought to be expounded otherwise . instance was given in this , i am a vine : what we suppos'd of the scripture , must hold of all speeches , if the literal sense implies a contradiction , they must be expounded otherwise . now mark the father , he says , christ affirming of bread , this is my body , &c. this bread is my body is a contradiction , therefore bread or body must not be taken literally . at the latter end of this quotation , the father says , the bread which we see is not bread , but the body of christ ; there cannot be a plainer contradiction than is , and is not ; therefore bread the subject in this proposition , of which so palpable a contradiction is predicated , must needs be under some other signification besides it's literal one , because this predicate so peremptorily negative , is not bread , and so determin'd positively , but christs body , are so evident and plain , that they are not capable of being misconstrued , especially being predicates , which always limit and determin the subject . so that bread is so call'd , because it once was bread ( as moses his rod , tho' chang'd into a serpent , was notwithstanding call'd a rod , because it had been so ) and still appears to the senses to be bread , as the father here tells us , with this reduplication for fear of mistake , yet it is not bread. i cannot use plainer words to explicate the father , than his own . he that can make protestantism out of these texts , may expound bellarmin and the council of trent , when they please , and make them protestants too . as to your demand , that we should shew that the substance of bread ceases ; i think you never need have it shewn plainer than in the words before you , which say , that that which seems bread is not bread ; i suppose by substance of bread , you mean the being of bread ; therefore the being ceasing , the substance must cease ; but the being ceases according to this text ; for that which was bread is not bread , therefore the substance ceases , and there is a change , which you grant wonderful ; and what can this change be , but this substance ceasing to be is chang'd into another substance , which we call transubstantiation ? and yet because st. cyprian lies here before us , i will shew you a quotation out of him , where he says , that bread is chang'd , not only in effigie , or similitude , but in nature , being by the omnipotent power of god made flesh . dr. i wonder you should quote that place out of st. cyprian , which is notoriously known to be none of his , for the manuscript of that work is now in oxford library , and bears the name of another author , some hundred years younger than st. cyprian . cath. but do you acknowledge that the words quoted out of this work ( be it whose it will ) do signifie transubstantiation ? drs. we do not deny , but that many authors of latter ages have writ very odly of that point , and we do think this , among the rest , one of them . cath. this is the first time , that ever we heard of any such manuscript of this work in oxford ; and yet i have met with many protestants that have made it their business to prove it none of st. cyprians ; and 't is much that none of them should ever hear of this manuscript and urge it , if it were so evidently known to be another man's , and whose , and of what age. but this i am sure , that cocus , the famous man for excepting against places brought by catholics for their doctrins , do's impugn this book chiefly from bellarmin's confessions , who indeed do's say , that it may seem to be none of st. cyprians ; but adds immediately after , that it was the work of some learned man of the same age , as our adversaries acknowledge , to which cocus says nothing , and therefore may well be thought to allow it . mr. fulk against the rhemish testament , upon 1 cor. cap. 7. fol. 282. says , the author de coena domini , which is the work now mentioned , was not in time much inferior to cyprian : and erasmus ( a great man with the protestants ) in his annotations annexed to st. cyprians works , printed at basil , 1558. fol. 287. affirmeth it to be the work of some learned man of that age ; so that taking cocus his silence to what bellarmin says , and mr. fulk and erasmus their plain affirmations of the age of this work , to be worth any thing ; and taking this doctors confession , that the words in this work are odd , as savoring of transubstantiation , you have an argument of transubstantiation in st. cyprians age , or at least of a time not much inferior . gentlem. to the doctor . sir , i have observ'd the discourse as well as i could , and i find the great point in dispute , is , what the fathers held a great while ago . as to the doctrin in debate , you have brought places of both sides , which we must consider more at leisure ; but at present will you be pleas'd to answer me a question or two , which occur to me to ask ? dr. with all my heart . gent. how long is it since transubstantiation ( the word i mean ) has been establish'd ? dr. ever since the lateran council , about 450 years ago . gent. did the church understand the word transubstantiation , then to signifie any new doctrin , or only to express the very self same doctrin which they believ'd before ? dr. we do believe that the word was not taken to signifie any thing but what was believ'd before . gent. when did the church begin to believe that doctrin , which it seems it did believe at and before the lateran council , and thought then well express'd by the word transubstantiation ? dr. we confess we cannot tell , for great errors arrive often from little beginnings and do grow up insensibly . gent. how long was it after the lateran council before this doctrin was complain'd of ? dr. about three hundred years . gent. how came we to discern this to be an error three hundred years after , which our forefathers held for a truth three hundred years together in express terms , and no body knows how much longer they held the same thing in other terms ? is it not much , an error could be so general , and so long maintain'd without any opposition or notice taken of its birth or origin ? dr. it was not so general , but that some oppos'd it , as the waldenses ; but it is not strange that an error should be general and long maintain'd ; for the church of rome says , that the greek church err'd generally and long , in teaching that the holy ghost proceeds not from the son. cath. but the church of rome never taught , that the whole catholic church err'd in teaching that doctrin ; for though that part which is now call'd the greek church , be condemn'd for that error , yet we know how and when it began , and who oppos'd it ; we know that very many of the greeks never consented to it , but did then , and have always since continued in communion with the church of rome ; so that that error was so far from being general , that it was always oppos'd by the latin church , and great part of the greeks too ; whereas no body oppos'd transubstantiation , but known heretics , who began before the lateran council we speak of , and were condemn'd by it ; and were such as the waldenses , ( a people , as i suppose , you would be loath to own for your predecessors . ) and that all the world should , consent so quietly all at one time to adore that for god , which the day before was universally believ'd to be but a piece of bread , and was us'd accordingly ; and no man living in the world take notice when this was done , nor upon what occasion , or give it the least opposition , is a miracle ten times greater ( if there be any degrees in miracles ) than this , which you cannot believe for its difficulty , viz. transubstantiation ; especially when we can shew in every age , when any opposition was made to this doctrin , who they were that did it , and what became of them . berengarius was above a hundred years before the lateran council ; yet we can shew that he was oppos'd by bishops and fathers of almost all countries , as by lanfranck of canterbury , durandus troaernensis , guitmundus , four bishops of rome , and by the pastors of all countries , how he recanted three times , and how he died . joannes scotus erigena , who lived about two hundred years before , and had laid some grounds for berengarius his error , was treated as an innovator by hincmarus and others , himself forced to retire out of france , and his book not heard of again till two hundred years after ; and no man living can tell us , when this absurd doctrin ( as the doctor calls it ) which has had such success in the world , as to obtain belief universally , for several hundred years , ever had any beginning , or any considerable opposition . for though the word transubstantiation was not commonly us'd before the council of lateran , it matters not , nor makes any new belief , since it has always been the constant practice of the church in the general councils , when it did condemn heretical opinions , or decide any point in debate , to expound the true sense of scripture , upon that very point , by some very significant word , to leave no occasion of cavilling or disputing upon its decisions , declaring by an explicit act and positive definition , what was the true sense of soripture , and what implicitly all the whole catholic church did believe before , as it appears in several other councils , as in that of nice against the arians , where the word consubstantial was found out to condemn their heresie , they pretending that the son was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , of like substance to the father , when the council defin'd him to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. of the same substance or consubstantial . the same you may observe in the council of chalcedon , where nestorius was condemn'd by the new distinction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . gent. supposing , sir , that the roman doctrin in this point be false , and their practice idolatry , and yet both were universal for several ages together , which way can the church of england pretend to good and lawful ordination ? for they pretend to none , but what they receiv'd from idolaters , i. e. the church of rome . dr. very well , for though they were idol●ters , they might give good and lawful ordinations , for the very church of rome holds , that mortal sin do's not hinder a bishop or priest from executing his function . cath. all mortal sins may not hinder a bishop from executing his function , or giving good and lawful ordination , yet some may : for if a bishop should become a jew , ( and the same thing may be said if he becomes an idolater ) you surely will not allow him to give good and lawful christian ordination : for that which destroys the essence of a church or a christian , must needs disable those it falls upon , from giving legal commissions at least , to others to govern the church , or to administer the sacraments of christ . drs. there are two sorts of idolatry , one of the heathens , and another ( if you will have it ) of the church of rome . cath. we will have any thing that you will make evident ; but when you tell us of two sorts of idolatries , i hope you do not mean material and formal idolatry , the first of which , if purely such , is no crime . we speak all along of formal idolatry , which you must accuse the church of rome of , or else , 〈◊〉 nothin● 〈◊〉 if you do , i pray shew how the natur● of formal 〈◊〉 becomes chang'd by its relation to heathens , from what it is when it relates to a papist . i doubt you mean by your two sorts of idolatry , idolatry which is idolatry , and idolatry which is not idolatry , like the honest preacher 〈◊〉 talk'd of three sorts of seekers , one that sought and found , another who sought and did not find , and a third which neither sought nor found ; the first idolatry 〈◊〉 belong to the heathens ; and the second , the no idolatry , to the papists . and now we shall leave it to the judgment of this worthy company to consider , how clear and evident you have made it , that you had such just cause to separate from the whole church , as to excuse you from formal or criminal schism . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41431-e120 a relation of a conference , apr. 3. 1676. notes for div a41431-e210 theod. tom. 2. dial. 2. pag. 236. edit . colon. 1617. magd cent. 5. cap. 4. de inclinatione doct. tit . de coena domini . ibid. dial. 2. pag. 234. st. cyp. de c●en . domini . the point of church-unity and schism discuss'd by a nonconformist, with respect to the church-divisions in england. corbet, john, 1620-1680. 1679 approx. 94 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 40 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a34541) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 105678) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1612:26) the point of church-unity and schism discuss'd by a nonconformist, with respect to the church-divisions in england. corbet, john, 1620-1680. [8], 67, [3] p. printed for thomas parkhurst ..., london : 1679. advertisements: [3] p. at end. errata: p. 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will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church -unity. schism. theology, doctrinal. 2004-08 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-08 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-09 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2004-09 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the point of church-unity and schism discuss'd , by a nonconformist with respect to the church-divisions in england . london , printed for thomas parkhurst , at the bible and three crowns at the lower end of cheapside . 1679. the contents . chap. i. of the church and its polity . what the church is both in its invisible and visible state . the state of the church catholick . the state of particular churches , and their pastors , elders or bishops . of the partition of churches by local bounds . of the interests of bishops or pastors in any assigned circuit of ground . of the association or combination of churches . of a national church . of the interest of civil magistrates in the state of the church . of a diocese and a diocesan bishop . of exercising the ministery without subordination to a diocesan bishop . no human power may prejudice christs interest in his ministers or people . all have a judgment of discretion about their own acts . chap. ii. of true church-unity . the names of unity and schism should be rightly applied . true church-unity is the unity of the spirit ; what is included therein . true unity is primarily of the church in its mystical , secondarily in its visible state . holy love is the life and soul of this unity . church-unity considered in three points . 1. in the essentials and all weighty matters of christian faith and life . 2. in the essentials and integrals of church-state . 3. in the accidentals of religion . the different value of these different points of unity . the rule of unity is gods word . of the scriptures sufficiency as a rule thereof . of things left to human determination , with the pastors and magistrates interest therein . the rulers wisdom in setling the right bounds of unity . the burden of things unnecessary not to be laid on the churches . unity of external order is subservient to faith and holiness . chap. iii. of schism truly so called . schism is the violation of the unity of the spirit . separation and schism are not of equal extent . the violation of holy love is the root of schism . schism lies primarily in a breach made upon the unity of the church as mystical , and secondarily as visible . the highest point of schism against the church as visible , is that which is about the essentials and weighty matters of christian faith and life . how both persons and churches may be guilty of it . the next point of schism is about the essentials and integrals of church state . this may be either against the catholick or a particular church ; instances of both kinds . the lowest point of schism is about the accidentals of religion . how any are guilty or not guilty in this point . a preposterous valuation made of the aforesaid different points , tends to schism . the setting of other bounds of unity , than gods word allows , is to make a breach upon it . terms of unity may be allowed of god as to the submitters , when they are not allowed as to the imposers . the danger of acting against conscience rationally doubting . t is a false unity that is set up to the hindrance of faith and holiness ; and not to adhere to it is no schism but duty ; instances hereof . of the right of drawing together into new congregations on such occasion . what endeavour of reformation is unlawfull to subjects . a difference between inimical separation and amicable necessary segregation . the objected inconveniences against the amicable segregation answered . the import of the text , rom. 16. 17. opened . chap. iv. of the schisms that were in the more ancient times of the church , and the different case of the nonconformists in these times . of the donatists . of the novatians . whether the case of the present nonconformists be the same with the case of these or any others anciently reputed schismaticks . the case of such nonconformists , as be more remote from accomodation with the established order . the case of such of them , as be more disposed to accommodation . an answer to objections against relaxing the terms of conformity . of diverse other remarkable schisms in the ancient times ; and the nonconformists case different from theirs . an appeal to antiquity and to our superiors . chap. v. of making a right estimate of the guilt of schism , and something more of the right way to unity . the great abuse of the name schism , and the bad consequence thereof . the degree of the schism to be duely considered for making an equal judgment of the guilt thereof . examples of schismatical animosities in worthies of ancient times . charity in censuring thence inferred . true unity is founded in true holiness , and promoted by impartiality and equity towards all real christians , and by the due exercise of true church-discipline , and by removing the snares of division ; and as by the equity and charity of superiors , so by the humility and due submission of inferiors . a question considered about the warrantableness of submission to things not in themselves unlawfull , but inexpedient . errata . pag. 2. lin . 2. r. regeneration , p. 12. l. 8. r. without , ib. l. 16. r. and in , p. 22. l. 6. r. due extent , p. 25. l. 14. r. account of accidental . p. 32. l. 16. r. injured christians as are , p. 33. l. 25. r. segregation , p. 42. l. 27. r. renouncing , p. 47. l. 21. r. deposed . the point of church-unity and schism discuss'd . chap. i. of the church and its polity . the church is a spiritual common-wealth , which according to its primary and invisible state is a society of regenerate persons , who are joyned to the lord christ their head , and one to another as fellow members by a mystical union through the holy spirit , and are justified , sanctified , and adopted to the inheritance of eternal life ; but according to its secondary and visible state , it is a society of persons professing christianity or regeration , and externally joyned to christ , and to one another by the symbals of that profession , and made partakers of the external priviledges thereunto belonging . there is one catholick church , which according to the invisible form , is the whole company of true believers throughout the world ; and according to its visible form , is the whole company of visible believers throughout the world , or believers according to human judgment . this church hath one head and supream lord , even christ , and one charter and system of laws ; the word of god and members , that are free denizons of the whole society , and one form of admission or solemn initiation for its members , and one kind of ministery and ecclesiastical power . this church hath not the power of its own fundamental constitution , or of the laws , and officers , and administrations intrinsecally belonging to it , but hath received all these from christ its head , king and lawgiver , and is limited by him in them all . nevertheless , it hath according to the capacity of its acting , that is , according to its several parts a power of making secondary laws or canons , either to impress the laws of christ upon its members , or to regulate circumstantials and accidentals in religion , by determining things necessary in genere , not determined of christ in specie . as the scripture sets forth one catholick church , so also many particular churches , as so many political societies distinct from each other , yet all compacted together as parts of that one ample society , the catholick church . each of these particular churches have their proper elder or elders , pastor or pastors , having authority of teaching and ruling them in christs name . an ecclesiastical order of presbyters or elders , that are not bishops , is not found in holy scripture . for all presbyters or elders , being of a sacred order in the gospel church that are any where mentioned in scripture , are therein set forth as bishops truly and properly so called , and are no where set forth as less than bishops . these elders or bishops are personally to superintend all their flock , and there is no grant from christ to discharge the same by delegates or substitutes . a distinction between bishops and presbyters , and a superiority of the former over the latter , was after the scripture times anciently and generally received in the christian church . yet it was not a diversity of orders or offices essentially different , but of degrees in the same office , the essential nature whereof is in both . the bishop of the first ages was a bishop not of a multitude of churches , but of one stated ecclesiastical society or single church , whereof he was an immediate pastor ; and he performed the work of a bishop , or immediate pastor towards them all in his own person , and not by delegates and substitutes ; and he governed not alone , but in conjunction with the presbyters of his church , he being the president . though several cities in the same kingdom have their different municipal laws and priviledges according to the diversity of their charters , yet particular churches have no divine laws and priviledges diverse from each other , but the same in common to them all , because they have all the same charter in specie from christ. therefore each of them have the same power of government within themselves . and the qualifications requisite to make men members or ministers of the universal church , do according to christs law sufficiently qualifie them to be members or ministers of any particular church , to which they have a due and orderly call . local , presential communion in gods ordinances , being a main end of erecting particular churches , they should in all reason consist of persons , who by their cohabitation in a vicinity are capable of such communion , and there may not be a greater local distanc● of the persons than can stand with it . a bishops church was anciently made up of the christians of a city or town , and the adjacent villages , who might and did personally meet together , both for worship and discipline . all christians of the same local precinct are most conveniently brought into one and the same stated church , that ●here might be the greatest union among them , and that the occasion of straggling and running into several parties might be avoided . yet this local part●●ion of churches is not of absolute necessity a●d invariable , but if there be some insuperable impediment thereof , the partition must be made as the state of things will admit . no bishop or pastor can by divine right or warrant , claim any assigned circuit of ground as his propriety for ecclesiastical government , as a prince claims certain territories as his propriety for civil government ; so that no other bishop or pastor may without his licence , do the work of the ministery , in any case whatsoever within that circuit . it is not the conjunction of a bishop or pastor with the generallity or the greater number of the people , that of it self declares the only rightfull pastor or true church within this or that circuit . for many causes may require and justifie the being of other churches therein . seeing particular churches are so many integral parts of the catholick church , and stand in need of each others help in things that concern them joyntly and severally , and they have all an influence on each other , the law of nature leads them to associations or combinations greater and lesser , according to their capacities . and the orderly state that is requisite in all associations , doth naturally require some regular subordination in the several parts thereof , either in way of proper authority or of mutual agreement . and the associated churches and particular members therein , are naturally bound to maintain the orderly state of the whole association , and to comply with the rules thereof , when they are not repugnant to the word of god. a bishop or pastor and the people adhering to him , are not declared to be the only true church and pastor within such a precinct , by their conjunction with the largest combination of bishops or pastors and their churches . for the greater number of bishops may in such manner err in their constitutions , as to make rightly informed persons uncapable of their combination . a national church is not a particular church properly so called , but a combination or coagmentation of particular churches , united under one civil supream , either personal as in a monarchy , or collective as in a republick . and the true notion thereof lies not in any combination purely ecclesiastical and intrinsecal , but civil and extrinsecal , as of so many churches that are collected under one that hath the civil supremacy over them . the national church of england truly denotes all the churches in england united under one supream civil church-governour , the kings majesty . civil magistrates as such , are no constitutive parts of the church . the christian church stood for several centuries without the support of their authority . but supream magistrates have a civil supremacy in all ecclesiastical matters , and a political , extrinsecal episcopacy over all the pastors of the churches in their dominions , and may compell them to the performance of their duties , and punish them for negligence and mal-administration ; and they may reform the churches , when they stand in need of reformation . the possession of the tithes and temples doth not of it self declare the true pastor and church , nor doth the privation thereof declare no pastor and no church . for these are disposed of by the secular power , which of it self can neither make , nor make void a pastor or church . a diocess is a collective body of many parishes under the government of one diocesan . if the several parishes be so many particular churches , and if their proper and immediate presbyters be of the same order with those which in scripture are mentioned by that name , and were no other than bishops or pastors ; then a diocess is not a particula● church , but a combination of churches , an● the diocesan is a bishop of bishops , or governour over many churches and their i●mediate bishops . if the parishes be not a knowledged to be churches , nor their presbyters to be realy bishops or pastors , but the diocess be held to be the lowest political church , and the diocesan to be a bishop of the lowest rank , and the sole bishop or pastor of all the included parishes ; i confess , i have no knowledge of the divine right of such a church or bishop , or of any precept or precedent thereof in scripture . for every particular church mentioned in scripture was but one distinct stated society , having its own proper and immediate bishop or bishops , elder or elders , pastor or pastors , who did personally and immediately superintend over the whole flock , which ordinarily held either at once together , or by turns personal , present communion with each other in gods worship . but a diocess consists of several stated societies , to wit , the parishes which are constituted severally of a proper and immediate presbyter or elder having cure of souls , and commonly called a rector , and the people which are his proper and immediate charge or cure . and the people of the diocess do not live under the personal and immediate oversight of their diocesan , but under his delegates and substitutes . nor do they ordinarily hold personal present communion with each other in gods worship , either at once together or by turns . nevertheless , which way soever a diocess be considered , i have nothing to object against submission to the government of the diocesan , as an ecclesiastical officer established by the law of the land under the kings supremacy . there is nothing in the nature of the office of presbyterate ( which according to the scripture is a pastoral office ) that shews it ought to be exercised no otherwise than in subordination to a diocesan bishop . christ , who is the author and only proper giver of all spiritual authority in the church , hath not so limited the said office , and men cannot by any act of theirs enlarge or lessen it as to its nature or essential state , or define it otherwise than it is stated of christ in his word . no power ecclesiastical or civil can discharge any minister of christ from the exercise of his ministery in those circumstances , wherein christ commands him to exercise it , nor any christians from those duties of religion , to which the command of christ obligeth them . as the magistrate is to judge what laws touching religion are fit for him to enact and execute , so the ministers of christ are to use a judgment of discretion about their own pastoral acts ; and all christians are to do the same about their own acts of church-communion . the too common abuse of the judgment of discretion cannot abrogate the right use thereof , it being so necessary that without it men cannot act as men , nor offer to god a reasonable service . chap. ii. of true church-unity . when the names of unity and schism are by partiality and selfishness commonly and grosly abused and misapplied , the nature of the things to which those names do of right belong , ought to be diligently inquired into , and clearly and distinctly laid open . for a groundwork in this inquiry i fix upon two very noted texts of scripture . the one is eph. 4. 3. indeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . the other is rom. 16. 17. mark them that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine that ye have learned , and avoid them . the former guides us to the knowledge of true church-unity , and the latter shews us the true nature of schism . by the former of these texts , all christians are obliged to maintain that spiritual unity , which they have one with another under christ their head , by the holy ghost in all due acts of holy communion in peace and concord . several important things are here to be taken notice of . 1. there is a spiritual unity between all christians in the form of one mystical body , as there is a natural unity between all the members of the natural body . the members being many are one body and members one of another . 2. this unity is under christ as the head of it . what the head is to the natural body , that is christ and much more to his mystical body the church . 3. this unity of christians one with another under christ , is by the holy ghost , and therefore called the unity of the spirit . the spirit of christ the head , doth seize upon and reside in all the faithfull , by which they become christs mystical body , and are joyned one to another as fellow-members . 4. this unity of the spirit among christians is witnessed , maintained , and strengthened by their holy communion of love and peace one with another , but is darkened , weakened , and lessened by their uncharitable dissentions . hence it is evident that the unity here commended , is primarily that of the church in its internal and invisible state , or the union and communion of saints , having in themselves the spirit , and life , and power of christianity . t is the unity of the spirit we are charged to keep in the bond of peace . but concord in any external order with a vital union with christ and holy souls , his living members , is not the unity of the spirit , which is to partake of the same new nature and divine life . secondarily , it is the unity of the church in its external and visible state , which is consequent and subservient to the internal , and stands in the profession and appearance of it , in the professed observation of the duties arising from it . where there is not a credible profession of faith unfeigned and true holiness , there is not so much as the external and visible unity of the spirit . therefore a sensual earthly generation of men , who are apparently lead by the spirit of the world , and not by the spirit that is of god , have little cause to glory in their adhering to an external church order , whatsoever it be . holy love , which is unselfed and impartial , is the life and soul of this unity , without which it is but a dead thing , as the body without the soul is dead . and this love is the bond of perfectness , that cement , that holds altogether in this mystical society . for this being seated in the several members , disposeth them to look , not to their own things , but also to the things of others , and not to the undue advancement of a party , but to the common good of the whole body . whosoever wants this love , hath no vital union with christ and the church , and no part in the communion of saints . the church is much more ennobled , strengthened , and every way blessed by the communion of holy love among all its living members , or real christians , than by an outside uniformity in the minute circumstances , or accidental modes of religion . by this love it is more beautifull and lovely in the eyes of all intelligent beholders , than by outward pomp and ornament , or any worldly splendor . the unity of the church as visible , whether catholick or particular , may be cons●dered in a three-fold respect , or in three very different points . the first and chief point thereof , is in the essentials and all weighty matters of christian faith and life . the second and next in account is in the essentials and integrals of church state , that is , in the christian church-worship , ministery and discipline , considered as of christs institution , and abstracted from all things superadded by men . the third and lowest point is in those extrinsecal and accidental forms and orders of religion , which are necessary in genere , but left in specie to human determination . of these several points of unity , there is to be a different valuation according to their different value . our first and chief regard is due to the first and chief point , which respects christian faith and life ; the next regard is due to that which is next in value , that which respects the very constitution or frame of a church ; and regard is to be had of that also which respects the accidentals of religion , yet in its due place and not before things of greater weight and worth . things are of a very different nature and importance to the churches good estate ; and a greater or lesser stress must be laid upon unity in them , as the things themselves are of greater or lesser moment . the rule or law of church unity is not the will of man , but the will of god. whosoever keeps that unity which hath gods word for its rule , keeps the unity of the spirit ; and whosoever boasts of a unity that is not squared by this rule , his boasting is but vain . an hypothesis that nothing in the service of god is lawfull , but what is expresly prescribed in scripture , is by some falsly ascribed to a sort of men who earnestly contend for the scriptures sufficiency , and perfection for the regulating of divine worship , and the whole state of religion . god in his word hath prescribed all those parts of his worship , that are necessary to be performed to him . he hath likewise therein instituted those officers that are to be the administrators of his publick worship in church assemblies , and hath defined the authority and duty of those officers , and all the essentials and integrals of church state . as for the circumstantials and accidentals belonging to all the things aforesaid , he hath laid down general rules for the regulation thereof , the particulars being both needless and impossible to be enumerated and defined . in this point god hath declared his mind , deut. 4. 2. ye shall not add unto the word which i command you , neither shall ye diminish ought from it . deut. 12. 32. what soever thing i command you , observe to do it , thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it . the prohibition is not meerly of altering the rule , gods written word by addition or diminution , but of doing more or less than the rule required , as the precept is not of preserving the rule , but of observing what is commanded in it . such human institutions in divine worship , as be in meer subserviency to divine institutions , for the necessary and convenient modifying and ordering thereof , are not properly additions to gods commandments . for they are of things which are not of the same nature , end and use with the things which god hath commanded , but of meer circumstantials and accidentals belonging to those things . and these circumstantials are in genere necessary to the performance of divine institutions , and are generally commanded in the word , though not in particular , but are to be determined in specie by those to whom the power of such determination belongs . they that assert and stand to this only rule , provide best for the unity of religion , and the peace of the church . for they are ready to reject whatsoever they find contrary to this rule , they are more easily kept within the bounds of acceptable worship , and all warrantable obedience , they lay the greatest weight on things of the greatest worth and moment , they carefully regard all divine institutions and whatsoever god hath commanded , and they maintain love , and peace , and mutual forbearance towards one another in the more inconsiderable diversities of opinion and practice . those things that are left to human determination , the pastors , bishops or elders , did anciently determine for their own particular churches . and indeed it is very reasonable and naturally convenient , that they who are the administrators of divine institutions , and have the conduct of the people in divine worship , and know best what is most expedient for their own society , should be intrusted with the determination of necessary circumstances within their own sphere . but forasmuch as the supream magistrate is intrusted of god with the care of religion within his dominions , and hath a civil supremacy in eclesiastical affairs , and a great concern in the orderly management of publick assemblies , he is authorized of god to oversee the determinations and actings of ecclesiastical persons , and may assume to himself the determination of the aforesaid circumstantials for the honour of god , the churches edification and the publick peace , keeping within the general rules prescribed in gods word . for the maintaining of church-unity , that is according to gods word , it is the part of subjects to submit to what their governours have determined , so far as their submission is allowable by the said rule ; and it is the part of governours to consider well the warrantableness of their determinations . more especially their wisdom and care is much required in settling the right bounds of unity . in this regard the terms of admission to the communion and ministery of the church must be no other , than what the declared will of god hath made the terms of those privi●edges , and which will shut out none , whom god hath qualified for and called to the same . the setting of other boundaries , besides the iniquity thereof , will inevitably cause divisions . the apostles , elders and brethren assembled at jerusalem , acts 15. 28. writing to the blieving gentiles declare , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things . from which it is evidently inferred that the burden of things unnecessary ought not to be laid on the churches . the things injoyned by that assembly were antecedently to their decree , either necessary in themselves or in their consequents according to the state of things in those times and places . and whatsoever is made the matter of a strict injunction , especially a condition of church communion and priviledges , ought to have some kind of necessity in it antecedent to its imposition . symbolical rites or ceremonies instituted by man to signifie grace or duty , are none of those things , which being necessary in general , are left to human determination for this or that kind thereof . they have no necessary subserviency to divine institutions , they are no parts of that necessary decency and order in divine worship , without which the service would be undecent . and indeed they are not necessary to be instituted or rigidly urged in any time or place whatsoever . the being and well being of an● rightly constituted church of christ , ma● 〈◊〉 without them . st. paul resolves upon the cases of using or refusing of meats , and the observance or non-observance of days , which god had neither commanded nor forbidden , and of eating of those meats which had been offered in sacrifice to idols , rom. 14. and 1 cor. 8. that no man put a stumbling block , or an occasion to fall in his brothers way . the command here given , extends to pastors and governours as well as to other christians , and is to be observed in acts of governments as well as in other acts . st. paul was a church governour and of high authority , yet he would not use his own liberty in eating flesh , much less would he impose in things unnecessary to make his brother to offend . in the cases aforementioned , there was a greater appearance of reason for despising , censuring or offending others , than there can be for some impositions now in question among us , viz. on the one side a fear of partaking in idolatry , or of eating meats that god had forbidden , or of neglecting days that god had commanded , as they thought ; on the other side a fear of being driven from the christian liberty , and of restoring the ceremonial law. nevertheless , the apostle gives a severe charge against censuring , despising or offending others of different persuasions in those cases . and if it were a sin to censure or despise one another , much more is it a sin to shut out of the communion or ministery of the church for such matters . the word of god , which is the rule of church-unity , evidently shews that the unity of external order must always be subservient to faith and holiness , and may be required no further than is consistent with the churches peace and edification . the churches true interest lies in the increase of regenerate christians , who are her true and living members , and in their mutual love , peace and concord , in receiving one another upon those terms which christ hath made the bond of this union . the true church unity is comprized by the apostle in these following unities ; one body , one spirit , one hope , one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god. but there is nothing said of one ritual or set form of sacred office , one policy or model of rules and orders , that are but circumstantial and accidental in a church state and very various and alterable , while the church abides the same . chap. iii. of schism truly so called . here i lay down general positions abou● schism without making application thereof ; whether these positions be right or wrong gods word will shew ; and who are , or are not concerned in them , the state of things will shew . schism is a violation of the unity of the spirit , or of that church-unity which is of gods making or approving . this definition i ground on the afore-cited text , mark them that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine that ye have learned . separation and schism are not of equal extent . there may be a separation or secession where there is no schism . for schism is always a sin , but separation may be a duty , as the separation of the protestants from the church of rome . moreover , there may be schism where there is no separation . the violation of unity or the causing of divisions may be not only by withdrawing , but by any causing of others to withdraw from the communion of the church , or by the undue casting or keeping of others out of the church , or by making of any breaches in religion contrary to the unity of the spirit . by looking back to the nature , and rule , and requisites of true church-unity , we shall understand the true nature and the several kinds ●nd degrees of schism . as holy love is the life and soul of church-unity , so that aversation and opposition which contrary to love , is that which animates the sin of schism , and is as it were the heart root of it . whosoever maintains love , and makes no breach therein , and whose dissenting or withdrawing from a church is no other than what may stand with love in its extent , is no schismatick . the unity of the spirit being primarily that of the church as mystically , the breach thereof lies primarily in being destitute of the spirit and life spiritual , much more in being opposite thereunto , under the shew of christianity ; also in the languishing or lessening of spiritual life , especially of the acts of holy love . the unity of the spirit being secondarily , that of the church as visible in its external state , and the first and chiefest point thereo● being in the essentials and weighty matters of christian faith and life ; the highest violation thereof and the chiefest point of schism lies in denying or enormously violating th● said essentials or weighty matters . and it directly a violation of the unity of the catholick church , and not of particular churches only . not only particular persons , but churches , yea a large combination of churches bearing the christian name , may in their doctrine , worship and other avowed practice , greatly violate the essentials , or very weighty matters of christian faith and life , and be found guilty of the most enormous breach of unity . it is no schism to withdraw or depart from any the largest combination or collective body of churches , ( though for their amplitude they presume to stile their combination the catholick church ) that maintain and avow any doctrine or practice , which directly , or by near and palpable consequence overthrows the said essentials . the next point of external unity being about the essentials and integrals of church state , the sacraments and other publick worship , the ministery and discipline of the church considered as of christs institution , the next chief point of schism is the breach hereof . and this may be either against the catholick , or a particular church . of such schism against the state of the catholick church , there are these instances . 1. when any one part of professed christians how numerous soever , combined by any other terms of catholick unity , than what christ hath made , account themselves the only catholick church , excluding all persons and churches that are not of their combination . 2. when a false catholick unity is devised or contended for , viz. a devised unity of government for the catholick church un●er one terrene head , personal or collective , ●●uming a proper governing power over all christians upon the face of the whole earth . 3. when there is an utter disowning of most of the true visible churches in the world , as having no true church state , no not the essentials thereof , and an utter breaking off from communion with them accordingly . of schism against a particular church in point of its church state , there be these instances . 1. the renouncing of a true church as no church , although it be much corrupted , much more if it be a purer church , though somewhat faulty . 2. an utter refusing of all acts of communion with a true church when we may have communion with it , either in whole or in part , without our personal sin of commission or omission . 3. the causing of any divisions or distempers in the state or frame of a true church contrary to the unity of the spirit . but it is no schism to disown a corrupt frame of polity , supervenient to the essentials and integrals of church state in any particular church or combination of churches , like a leprosie in the body , that doth grosly deprave them , and in great part frustrate the ends of their constitution . the last and lowest point of external unity lying in the accidental modes of religion , and matters of meer order , extrinsick to 〈◊〉 essentials and integrals of church-state , the violation thereof is the least and lowest point of schism , i mean in it self considered , and not in such aggravating circumstances as it may be in . those accidental forms and orders of religion , which are necessary in genere but left in specie to human determination , are allowed of god , when they are determined according to prudence , and charity for peace and edification , and accordingly they are to be submitted to . consequently it is one point of schism to make a division from or in a church upon the accountal of accident forms and orders so determined according to gods allowance . but if any of the accidentals be unlawfull , and the maintaining or practicing thereof be imposed upon us as the terms of our communion , it is no schism but duty to abstain from communion in that case . for explicitly and personally to own errors and corruptions even in smaller points is evil in it self , which must not be committed that good may come . in this case not he that withdraws , but he that imposes causeth the division . and this holds of things sinfull either in themselves , or by just consequence . and herein he that is to act , is to discern and judge for his own practice , whether the things imposed be such . for gods law supposeth us rational creatures able to discern its meaning , and to apply it for the regulating of our own actions ; else the law were given us in vain . submission and reverence towards superiors obligeth no man to resign his understanding to their determinations , or in compliance with them to violate his own conscience . persons meek , humble , peaceable and throughly conscientious and of competent judgment , may not be able by their diligent and impartial search to see the lawfulness of things injoyned , and t is a hard case if they should thereupon be declared contumacious . seeing there be several points of unity , the valuation whereof is to be made according to their different value , mens judgment and estimation of unity and schism , is very preposterous , who lay the greatest stress on those points that are of least moment , and raise things of the lowest rank to the highest in their valuation , and set light by things of the greatest moment and highest value ; as indeed they do , who set light by soundness of faith and holiness of life , and consciencious observance of divine institutions , where there is not also unanimity and uniformity in unscriptural doctrines and human ceremonies . and they that make such an estimate of things , and deal with ministers accordingly , do therein little advance the unity of the spirit , or indeavour to keep it in the bond of peace . seeing the word of god is the rule of church unity , a breach is made upon it , when other bounds thereof are set than this rule allows . an instance hereof is the devising of other terms of church-communion , and ministerial liberty , than god hath commanded , or allowed in his word to be made the terms thereof ; also any casting or keeping out of the church or ministery such as gods word doth not exclude from either , but signifies to be qualified and called thereunto . god doth not allow on the part of the imposer such tearms of church communion or ministerial station , as are neither scriptural nor necessary to peace and edification , nor are any part of that necessary order and decency , without which the service of god would be undecent , nor are in any regard so necessary , but that they may be dispensed with for a greater benefit , and the avoiding of a greater mischief . and they are found guilty of schism that urge such unscriptural and unnecessary things unto a breach in the church . such imposers are not only an occasion of the breach that follows , but a culpable cause thereof , because they impose without and against christs warrant , who will not have his church to be burdened , nor the consciences of his servants intangled with things unnecessary . nevertheless , such unscriptural or unnecessary things , if they be not in themselves unlawfull nor of mischievous consequence , may be of gods allowing as to the submitters . thereupon they are guilty of schism , who meerly for the sake of those unnecessary things yet lawfull as to their use , though wrongfully urged upon them , forsake the communion of the church or their ministerial station , where things are well settled as to the substantials of religion , and the ends of church order , and when they themselves are not required to justifie the imposing of such unnecessaries . here i speak of contumacious refusers , who will rather make a breach than yield . but refusers out of conscience believing , or with appearance of reason suspecting the said lawfull things to be unlawfull , are either accquitted from schism , or guilty but in a low degree , and much less culpable than the imposers , who might well forbear to impose . be it here noted that when superiors sin in commanding a thing exempt from their authority , it may be the subjects duty to observe the thing commanded . in this case the said observance is not an act of obedience , for that can arise only from the rulers authority to command . but it is an act of prudence , equity and charity , and it is good and necessary for the ends sake , and in that regard t is an act of obedience , though not to the earthly ruler , yet to god who commands us to follow peace and maintain unity in all lawful● 〈◊〉 and means . in the judgment of the apostle it is no slight matter to act against conscience rationally doubting , or suspecting a breach of gods law , rom. 14. 5. let every man be fully persuaded in his mind , v. 14. to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean , to him it is unclean , ver . 23. he that doubteth , is damned if he eat , because he eateth not of faith , for whatsoever is not of faith is sin . the command of rulers is no good security for acting against a rational doubting conscience . when i am in doubt touching the lawfulness of the thing injoyned , i have no certainty of being on the safer side , by complying with rulers . for though in general obedience to rulers be a certain duty , yet in the particular doubted case , i cannot be certain that my compliance is right and warrantable obedience , and not a breach of gods law. is it plain that i ought to obey the commands of rulers in things that have gods allowance ? so t is as plain that i ought not to obey their commands in things which god hath forbidden . moreover , it is as plain that i ought not to act against my own conscience , which as being the discerner of the will of god concerning me , is of right the immediate director of my actions . indeed my conscience cannot alter gods law , or make that which god hath made my duty to be not my duty , yet it will not suffer me to act in disconformity to its directions . seeing the unity of the spirit is always in conjunction with faith and holiness , to which the unity of external order is always to be subservient , it follows that when unity of external order doth not tend to advance but hinder sound faith and true holiness , then a false unity is set up , and the true unity is abandoned , and divisions and offences are caused . and it is no schism but a duty not to adhere to a unity of external order so set and urged , as that it tends to the destruction or notable detriment of faith and holiness , which are the end of all church order . the means are good in reference to their end , and must never be used in a way destructive to it . of the hinderance of the said ends , there be these following instances . here laid down in general , without intendment of particular application to any churches now in being , which are left to be tryed and judged by that rule by which all must stand or fall . 1. when a church or churches , a congregation or congregations have an establishment of external polity , and an ordained ministery , and a form of divine worship , but are destitute of such ministers as are qualified to feed the flock , and are burdened with such as are altogether unfit to have the charge of souls committed to them , who are either unable to teach , or teach corruptly , either teaching corrupt doctrine , or abusing , mishandling and misapplying sound doctrine , to encourage the ungodly and discourage the godly . 2. where there are some ministers able and apt to teach and duly qualified ; but their number is in no wise proportionable to the number of the people , and there be multitudes that cannot have the benefit of their ministery , so that if they have no more placed among them than those few , they have in effect none . 3. where sincere christians , or credible professors of christianity are cast out of an established church by wrong sentence , or are debarred from its communion by unlawfull terms injoyned them , or unnecessary terms which are to them unlawfull by real doubts of conscience , and which christ hath not authorized rulers to injoyn as terms of church communion . 4. when ministers , whom christ hath furnished and called , are driven out of their publick station by unlawfull terms injoyned , or by terms unnecessary and to them unlawfull by real doubts of conscience , and which christ hath not authorized rulers to injoyn as terms of the publick ministery . upon the cases here mentioned , i inquire whether the said ministers and people may not draw together into new congregations . let it be considered whether the determinations of men may be a perpetual bar to true visible christians , ( it may be to multitudes of them ) against the injoyment of those most important priviledges , to which god hath given them right . yea , suppose their consciences were culpably weak in scrupling things imposed , yet they may suffer wrong by such an excess of punishment , as so great a deprivation . and christ doth not reject them for such weaknesses . let it be also considered , whether such injured as christians are wrongfully excluded from gods ordinances , and such neglected souls as are left destitute of the necessary means of salvation , may lawfully be deserted by christs ministers . should not the stewards of the mysteries of god indeavour to supply what is lacking to such by reason of the rigourousness or negligence of others ? if it be said , we may not do evil that good may come , nor break the laws of unity for such respects , the answer is , that this is not to do evil , but a good work and a necessary duty , and here is no breach of unity that is of gods making or allowing . the necessary means of saving souls are incomparably more pretious than uniformity in external , accidental order , especially when t is unwarrantably injoyned , and attended with such evil consequents . if within any local bounds assigned for the pastoral charge of any ecclesiastick , the people be left destitude of competent provision for their souls , it is no intrusion or breach of unity if an other pastor perform the work of the ministery within those bounds . subjects may not by coercive power reform the publick state and change the laws , which is the work of the supream magistrate . but let it be considered whether they may not have their voluntary assemblies for gods worship , when they are driven from the communion of the legal churches by the imposition of ●nlawfull terms , or unnecessary terms appre●ended by them to be unlawfull . for in this ●ase they are forced either to hold such assem●lies , or to abide perpetually without those ●piritual priviledges which are their due , and ●●e ordinary means of their salvation . there is a great difference between inimi●l separation , like sedition in a common-●ealth , and secregation upon necessary causes ●ithout breach of charity . and among the ●ecessary causes this may be one , that all sober ●hristians , who for conscience sake cannot ●●bmit to the way of the established churches , ●ay be relieved ; and that none may be exposed for lack of that relief to be lead aside into the error of the wicked , as heresie , infidelity , or any other course of impiety . indeed here is some variation from the ordinarily regular bounding of churches . but the partition of one church from another by local bounds , is not of absolute necessity and invariable , but naturally eligible from the convenience thereof , when it may be had . but the state of some christians may be such , as to compel them to vary from it . the scope hereof is not to set up churches agains● churches , but either occasional and temporary assemblies , or at the most but dive●● churches distinguished by their several place of assembling , or by diversity of external order , as the allowed congregations of foreigners in london , are distinguished from the parish churches . if any object the inconveniencies that ma● follow the permitting of church assemblies b● sides those of the established order , the a●swer is , that the wisdom and clemency rulers in any nation where this case may supposed can provide , that as few as may should stand in need of that permission , fixing the terms of church communion a●● ministerial liberty to such a latitude , as m●●● comprehend all the more moderate dissente●● and after such comprehension , christian ch●rity will plead , that all tolerable dissenters ( that is , all who believe and live as christians ) may be tolerated within such limits , as may stand with publick peace and safety . that which is here proposed , may make for the relief of many thousand serious christians without breach of the external order , which is necessary to be maintained , and is not set up to the hinderance of things more necessary . it is to be noted that the offenders expresly marked out by the apostle in the text , rom. 16. 17. were ungodly men that opposed or perverted the christian doctrine , and being sensualists and deceivers disturbed and polluted the christian societies , and seduced the simple into destructive error and practice . wherefore the text is ill applied to the rigorous condemnation of honest and peaceable men , that dissent only in some accidental or , ●nferior points of religion , for which the apostle forbids christians to despise or judge one ●nother . yet not only false teachers , but all ●chismaticks are here condemned under this de●●ription , viz. those that cause divisions and offences . and though they be not direct op●osers of sound doctrine , yet being dividers 〈◊〉 disturbers , they practice contrary to the ●octrine of christ , which teacheth unity , ●ove and peace . but still it must be observed ●●at the reality of schism lies not in being divided or disordered , but in causing the division or disturbance , or in a voluntary violation of or departing from true church-unity . they that cause divisions are not excused from schism by the support of secular power , nor are others convicted of it meerly by the want of that support . the magistrates power in sacred things is accumulative , not destructive o● diminitive to the rights of christs ministers and people . it takes not from them any thing that christ hath granted them , but gives them a better capacity to make use thereof . chap. iv. of the schisms that were in the mor● ancient times of the church ; and th● different case of the nonconformist● in these times . of those parties which were anciently r●upted schismaticks , as violating the un●ty of the church , yet not hereticks , as d●nying any fundamental point of the chris●●an faith , the novatians and donatists are the chiefest note . forasmuch as both the● are looked upon as the greatest instances schism , it may be requisite for me to consid●● the true state of their separation from the main body of the christian church , passing by accidental matters , and insisting on the merits of their cause according to their main principles and practices . as concerning the donatists , the breach made by them had this rise . donatus with ●is complices vehemently opposed cecilianus , who had been chosen bishop of carthage , in design to thrust him out of his bishoprick . they accuse him of being ordained by one that had been a proditor , and of having admitted into ecclesiastical office one that was guilty of the like fault . this cause was by the emperor constantine's appointment heard before several councils and many judges . the accusers still fail in their proofs of the ●hings objected , cecilianus is acquitted and confirmed in his office. the party of donatus failing in their design , were carried in a boundless rage of opposition to a total , and ●rreclaimable separation from all the churches ●hat were not of their faction , and became very numerous upon a pretence of shunning ●he contagion of the wicked in the communion of the sacraments . their principles were , that the church of christ was no where ●o be found but among themselves in a corner of africa ; also that true baptism was not administred but in their sect. likewise they proceeded to great tumult , and violence , and rapine . and a sort of them called circumcelliones gloried in a furious kind of martyrdom , partly by forcing others to kill them , and partly by killing themselves . the novatians took their name and beginning from novatus a presbyter , first at carthage , afterwards at rome , who held that they who lapsed in times of persecution unto the denying of christ , were not to be readmitted unto the communion of the church , though they repented and submitted to the ecclesiastical discipline of pennance . he separated from the roman church , and was made a bishop by bishops of his own judgment , in opposition to cornelius bishop of rome cyprian gives a very bad character of him , a● a turbulent , arrogant and avaritious person but of what spirit soever he was , his judgment and canon was received among many that were of stricter lives ; and he himself i● reported to have suffered death in the persecution under valerian . at the council of nice , acesius bishop o● the novatians being asked by constantine whether he assented to the same faith wit● the council , and to the observation of easte● as was there derceed , answered that he full assented to both . then being again aske● by the emperor , why he separated from th● communion , he recited for himself things done in the reign of decius , and the exquisite observation of a certain severe canon , that they who after baptism had fallen into that kind of sin , which the scripture calls a sin unto death , ought not to be partakers of the divine mysteries ; but to be exhorted to repentance , and to expect the hope of remission not from the priest but from god , who hath power to forgive . by this it appears that the novatians did not deny the salvability of the lapsed , or others that had fallen into a sin unto death , but only refused to admit them to sacerdotal absolution and church-communion . and thus they made a very unwarrantable separation , grounded upon an unjust rigor of very bad consequence . nevertheless their error was no other , than what holy and good men might be ensnared ●n by the appearance of a greater detestation of ●in , and its tendency to prevent the lapse of christians into idolatry , and to make them more resolved for martyrdom . and by as ●redible history as any we have of the an●ient times , they are reported to have had among them men eminently pious , and some ●amous for miracles . they unmovably ad●ered to the homousian faith , and for the maintenance of it together with the orthodox , ●uffered dreadfull persecutions . they had some bishops remarkable for wisdom an godliness , and such as were consulted with by some of the chief of the catholick bishops , and that with good success for support of the common faith against the arrians and such like hereticks . under a certain persecution , wherein they were companions of the self same suffering , it is said that the catholicks and novatians had prayers together in the novations churches , and that in those time● they were almost united , if the novations had not utterly refused that they might keep up their old institutes ; yet they bare such good will one to another , that they would die one for another . these and many other things of like nature are reported of them by socrates , whom some indeed suspect to have been addicted to them , yet upon no other ground , but because he gives them their due upon evident proof . and besides what he hath reported , sosomen thus testifies of them , l. 2. c. 30. that when other sects expired , the novatians because they had good men for the leaders of their way , and because they defended the same doctrine with the catholick church , were very numerous from the beginning , and so continued , and suffered not much dammage by constantines law for suppressing of sects ; and acesius their bishop being much favoured by the emperor , for the integrity of his life greatly advantaged his church . also l. 4. c. 19. he reports the great amity that was between them and the catholicks in a time of common persecution . whether the case of the dissenters from the uniformity now required , be in point of schism of the same or like reason with the above mentioned , or any other anciently reputed schismaticks , is now to be considered . and it is the case of those that dissent not in the substance of religion , but only in things pertaining to the ecclesiastical polity or external order in the church , that it here taken into consideration . of these , some being persuaded of the necessity of their own church-order , desire to remain as they are in their severed societies ; yet they do not nullify the legal churches or ministery , or the dispensation of the word , sacraments and prayer therein performed . others being satisfied in the constitution of parochial churches , and in the substance of the established form of worship , would gladly embrace a freedom of communicating and administring therein , upon the removal of some bars that lie against them , and which they think may well be removed . thereupon they seek an accommodation and union by a sufficient comprehensiveness in the publick constitution ; and withall a reasonable indulgence towards those brethren , who for the straightness of their judgments cannot be comprehended . neither party of the dissenters here described can be charged with any thing like the donatistical fury before expressed . if austin sought the suppression of that sect by the secular power , in regard of the horrible outrages committed by them , it cannot reasonably be urged for a precedent ( as it hath been by some ) for the suppression of men sober and peaceable , and sound in the main points of christian faith and life . nor can either party of us be charged with that intolerable presumption and arrogance of the donatists , in confining the flock of christ to their own party , or the disannulling and utter denouncing of all churches besides their own . nor is the ground of our dissatisfaction like theirs , which began in a quarrel against a particular bishop , and was maintained by animosity against those that would not condemn him . it is well known that another manner of account is to be given of our dissents . if it be objected , that those dissenters whose principles bind them up to persevere in their severed societies , seem in this respect to be as the novatians , who would not admit a re-union with the other churches ; it may be answered for them , that reasons have been offered in the foregoing parts of this discourse for indulgence to conscientious people , who are intangled by the narrowness of their principles touching church-order . besides , they do not stand off upon so harsh and rigorous a point as the novatians did , viz. the utter repelling of the lapsed , though penitent from the communion of the church . and they have ordinarily communion in the word and prayer with congregations that are not of their church way , and occasionally in the sacrament with those congregations , where they apprehend a care of the exercise of discipline . nor may they be judged so irreconcilable to the established order , but that the holy lives of those in the publick ministery , and their lively preaching , and a greater care of true and real church-discipline , might do much to their recovery . in the mean time , why may not these be upon as good terms under the present government , as the novatians were under the government of their times ? church history reports that they were cruelly persecuted by the arrian emperours and bishops , and that they had great indulgence under orthodox emperours , and with many catholick bishops and patriarchs , whose prudent and moderate government did best provide for the peace of their churches . but those orthodox bishops , who took from them their churches and estates , were chiefly either such as took to themselves a secular power , and ruled imperiously and with violence , or such as with their zeal had more of wrath and rashness than of meekness and prudence . this can be easily proved in the particular instances , if need were . but this is not the case of all nonconformists . for part of them ( and upon good experiment made , they may be found the greater part ) do not seek to abide in a severed state , but desire a union . it is well known they are as sensible of the evil of schism , and as studious of the churches peace and concord , as any others . and though they have not the same latitude of judgment with others in some points , yet they have a right catholick spirit to promote the common interest of religion , and more especially the protestant reformation , and dread the weakning and shattering of it by needless divisions , and are ready to go as far as conscience will allow in compliance with the injunctions of rulers . but they are cast and kept out of the established order by the injunction of some terms , which in regard of their present judgment , they can not comply with , but under the guilt of so great a sin as dissembling in the matter of religion . touching church-government , they admit the episcopacy that was of ancient ecclesiastical custom in the time of ignatius , yea , or of cyprian . bishop usher's model of government by bishops and arch-bishops with their presbyters , was by some of them presented to the kings majesty for a ground-work of accommodation . they acknowledge the kings ecclesiastical supremacy according to the oath in that case required . his majesty in his gracious declaration concerning ecclesiastical affairs , gives a testimony concerning the ministers that attended him in holland , in these words , viz. to our great satisfaction and comfort , we found them persons full of affection to us , and of zeal to the peace of church and state , and neither enemies ( as they had been given out to be ) to episcopacy or liturgy , but modestly to desire such alterations in either , as without shaking foundations might best allay the present distempers . they are ready to engage that they will not disturb the peace of the church , nor indeavour any point of alteration in its government by rebellious seditions , or any unlawfull ways . those points of conformity wherein they are dissatisfied , are but some accidentals of religion and external modes , and the declarations and subscriptions importing an allowance of all and every thing contained in the liturgy . and they think that these points are not so necessary in themselves or in their consequents , but they are very dispensable as the wisdom of governours shall see cause . if it be objected , that if any thing should be yielded to them , there would be no end of their cravings , that which i have to say is , that reasonable men will be satisfied with reasonable concessions ; and if subjects know not what is fit for them to ask , governours know what is fit for them to give . by granting the desired relaxation , the church would not ( as some alledge ) be self-condemned , as confessing the unlawfulness of her injunctions , or as justifying the opinions of the dissenters . for it can signifie from her no more than either her indulgence to the weak , or her moderation in things less necessary and more controverted , which would not turn to her reproach , but to her greater justification . i have here nothing to say to them that object against any relaxation after that manner , as if they desired not our conformity but our perpetual exclusion . such may be answered in due season . and i have here nothing to do with those that argue against ●s from politick considerations , respecting a particular interest too narrow for an adequate foundation of church-peace and christian-concord . but my scope is to consider what may be done by the higher powers and church guides for the healing of breaches , according to the wisdom which is from above , which is first pure , then peaceable , gentle and easie to be intreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without partiality and without hypocrisie . i have made particular observation of those too most remarkable parties , which have been looked upon as the chief instances of schism in the more ancient times . the other schisms that i find of any remark in those times were raised , sometimes by persons cast out of the church for their crimes , and thereupon drawing disciples after them , as was that of meletius a bishop ●n egypt , who was desposed for having sacrificed to idols . sometimes by offence unjust●y taken at some supposed faultiness in a bishop , as was that of an orthodox party ●n antioch , against another meletius , an orthodox and right worthy bishop of that city , only because he was at first brought ●n by the arrians ; sometimes by the exasperations of the people for injuries done to them or their pastors , and outrages committed by their opposites , as was that of the johannites at constantinople upon the banishment of chrysostom ; and somtimes by meer animosity and humor of discontentment , as was that of lucifer a bishop in sardinia● who separated from eusebius bishop of vercellis and others , because they disliked his rash act of ordaining paulinus to be bishop of antioch , as tending to perpetuate the schism there begun . touching all the said parties , it may be observed that they did not plead that any opinions or forms were imposed on them to which their consciences did reluctate , no● did they desire others forbearance toward● them in such things as might bear too har● upon them ; but they themselves woul● not bear with others in that which they supposed faulty , but did rather choose wholly to abandon the communion of the churches and did not seek nor care for accomodatio● with them . but this is not the case of 〈◊〉 least a great part of the dissenters of the● times . for they importune an accommodatio● with the churches of the established orde● and for peace sake , are willing to bear wit● the practice of others in that which themselves dislike or doubt of ; but they canno● obtain a dispensation from others , in some things which are very dispensable points according to their judgment , but are forced to abide in a severed state , unless they will profess what they believe not , or practice what they allow not . now because the judgment and practice of antiquity is much insisted on , i pray that it may be considered , whether in the primitive , or ancient times of christianity , men , yea , many hundreds of men duly qualified for the ministery by sound faith and good life , as also by their learning and industry , and offering all reasonable security for their submissive and peaceable demeanure , were or would have been cast and kept out of the church for their nonconformity to some opinions , forms and ceremonies , which at the best are but the accidentals of religion , and of the truth or lawfulness whereof , the dissenters were wholly dissatisfied , and which the imposers judged to be but things in themselves indifferent . and i further pray that it may be considered , whether it be easier for the nonconformists to be self-condemned in conforming to some injunctions against their consciences , and in deserting the ministery to which they are dedicated , than for superiours either by some relaxation to make them capable of conforming , or to bear with their peaceable exercise of the ministery in a state of nonconformity , while some of their injunctions confine them to that state . chap. v. of making a right estimate of the guilt of schism , and something more of taking the right way to unity . the confused noise about schism , and the unjust imputation thereof , that is commonly made , hath greatly disordered the minds of many . some have been thereby swaid to an absolute compliance with the most numerous or the most prevailing parties . others discerning the abuse of this name , but forgetting that there is something truly so called , have made light of the thing it self , which is indeed of a heinous nature . i have been engaged in this disquisition by a deep sense of the evil of schism , and an earnest care of keeping my self from the real guilt thereof , and what is here written , i willingly submit to a grave and just examination . errare possum , haereticus , schismaticus esse nolo . i am liable to errour as others are , but i am sure i am no wilfull schismatick . it is commonly given to men to pass a severe judgment upon every dissent from their own opinions and orders . whereupon , as that hath had the character of schism stamped upon it , which is not such indeed ; so that which is schism in a low and tolerable degree , hath been aggravated to the highest , and prosecuted against all rules of prudence and charity . to make an equal judgment of the guilt of schism in persons or parties , the degree of the schism is duly to be considered . our saviour teacheth that reviling language , contemptuous words and rash anger , are breaches of the sixth commandment , yet in degree of guilt , they are vastly different from the act of wilfull murther . and indeed in the kind of delinquency here treated of , there are as great differences of degrees as of any other kind . the case of those that are necessitated to a non-compliance in some lawfull things by them held unlawfull , yet seeking union would gladly embrace a reasonable accomodation , is much different from theirs , who upon choice and wilfully sever themselves , because they love to be severed . in like manner the case of those who desire and seek the conformity of others , and would gladly have fellowship with them , yet through misguided zeal , are approvers of such unnecessary impositions as hinder the conforming of many , is much different from theirs , who designing the extrusion of others , contrive the intangling of them by needless rigors . many other instances might be given to express the great disparity of cases in point of schism , all which may teach us in the estimate that we are to make thereof , to put a difference between honest minds , that by mistake are drawn into division , and those that out of their corrupt minds and evill designs do wilfully cause division . in many things we offend all , and therefore it behoves us to consider one another , as subject to the like errours and passions . we should not judge too severely , as we would not be so judged . there be many examples of schismatical animosities and perversnesses , into which in the ancient times such persons have fallen , as were otherwise worthily esteemed in the church . cyril with the greater number of bishops in the ephesine council , too rashly deposed john of antioch , and his party of bishops upon a quarrel that arose between them . and john with his adherents returning to antioch , did more rashly depose cyril and his party , and yet both parties were orthodox , and in the issue joyned in the condemnation of nestorius . but the most remarkable instance in this kind , is the disorderly and injurious proceeding of so venerable a person as epiphanius , against so worthy a person as chrysostom , to which he was stirred up by the instigation of that incendiary theophilus of alexandria . the said epiphanius goes to constantinople , and in the church without the city held a sacred communion , and ordained a deacon ; and when he had entred the city , in a publick church he read the decree made by himself and some others in the condemnation of origens books , and excommunicated dioscurus and his brethren called the long monks , worthy and orthodox men persecuted by the anthromorphites . and all this he did without and against the consent of chrysostom the bishop of the place , and in contempt of him . i may further instance in the long continued division between paulinus and meletius , with their parties at antioch , though both of them were of the nicene faith ; likewise in the long continued separation made from the church of constantinople , by the followers of chrysostom after his banishment , because they were exasperated by the injuries done to their worthy patriarch . these weaknesses in good men of old times , i observe not to dishonour them , but that we may be thereby warned to be more charitable and less censorious towards one another , in case of the like weaknesses and disorders , and to be sollicitous to maintain peace , and to prevent discord among all those that are united in the substantials of christian faith and practice , and for this end to be more carefull in avoiding unreasonable oppositions , unwarrantable impositions , and all causless exasperations . true holiness is the basis of true unity . for by it the faithfull cleave to god , and one to another in him and for him , and are inclined to receive one another on those terms , on which god hath received them all . and by it they are turned from that dividing selfishness , which draws men into several or opposite ways according to their several or opposite ends . let not a carnal wordly interest in a church state , be set up against holiness and unity . let the increase and peace of the church visible , be sought in order to the increase and peace of the mystical . let no one party be lifted up against the common peace of sound believers ; and let not any part of the legitimate children of christs family be ejected or harassed upon the instigation of others , but let the stewards in the family carry it equally , and so gratifie one part in their desired orders , that the other part be not oppressed . let not them be still vexed , who would be glad of tolerable terms with their brethren . in church-governours let the power of doing good be enlarged , and the power of doing hurt restrained , as much as will stand with the necessary ends of government . let the discipline of the church commend it self to the consciences of men . let the edge of it be turned the right way and its vigor be put forth , not about little formalities but the great and weighty matters of religion . zeal in substantials and charitable forbearance in circumstantials , is the way to gain upon the hearts of those that understand the true ends of church-government , and what it is to be religious indeed . let the occasions of stumbling and snares of division be taken out of the way , and let controverted unnecessaries be left at liberty . discord will be inevitable , where the terms of concord remain a difficulty insuperable . the conscientious that are willing to bid high for peace , cannot resign their consciences to the wills of men , and humility and soberness doth not oblige them to act contrary to their own judgments out of reverence to their superiors ; they cannot help themselves , but their superiors may . t is the spirit of antichrist that is fierce and violent ; but the spirit of christ is dovelike , meek and harmless , and that spirit inclines to deal tenderly with the consciences of inferiours . tenderness of conscience is not to be despised or exposed to scorn , because some may falsly pretend to it . the head of the church and saviour of the body is compassionate towards his members , and he hath said , whoso shall offend one of these little ones , that believe in me , it were better for him that a milstone were hanged about his neck , and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. as the way of unity lies much in the wisdom , equity and charity of superiours , so in the humility and due submission of inferiours , in their ready closing with what is commendable in the publick constitutions , in their bearing with what is tolerable , in making the best improvement of what is therein improvable for their own and others edification , in a word , in denying no compliance , which piety towards god and charity towards men doth not forbid . matters of publick injunction , which inferiors stick at , may be considered by them either as in themselves unlawfull , or as inexpedient . now it is not only or chiefly the inexpediency of things commanded , but the supposed unlawfulness of divers of those things that the nonconformists generally stick at , whereof they are ready to render a particular account , when it will be admitted . howbeit a question may arise about the warrantableness of submission to things not in themselves unlawfull but inexpedient , especially in respect of scandal , the solution whereof may be requisite for the clearing of our way in such things . upon this question it may be noted , that in those cases , wherein there is no right of commanding , there is no due of obedience . nevertheless , things unwarrantably commanded are sometimes warrantably observed , though not in obedience , yet in prudence , as to procure peace , and to shew a readiness to all possible compliance with superiors . moreover , rulers have no authority to command that , which in it self is not unlawfull , when christian charity forbids to do it in the present circumstances by reason of evil consequents . for all authority is given for edification and not for destruction . likewise our christian liberty includes no licence to do that act at the command of rulers , the doing of which in regard of circumstances , is uncharitable . but here it must be considered , how far the law of charity doth extend in this case , and when it doth , or doth not forbid my observance of what the ruler hath unwarrantably , because uncharitably commanded . true charity doth not wholly destroy christian liberty , though it regulates the use thereof ; and it doth not extend it so far one way as to destroy it self another way . if i am bound up from doing every indifferent thing , at which weak consciences will take offence , my liberty is turned into bondage , and i am left in thraldom to other mens endless scrupulosities . this is i think a yoke which christians are not fit nor able to bear . this bondage is greater and the burden lies heavier upon me , if by reason of others weakness , i must be bound up from observing an indifferent thing at the command of rulers , and by them made the condition of my liberty for publick service in the church , when my conscience is fully satisfied that it is lawfull , and otherwise expedient for me to do it . as for the warrantableness of enjoyning , the ruler must look to that . are some displeased and grieved that i do it ? as many or more may be displeased and grieved if i do it not . do some take occasion by my necessary use of a just liberty , to embolden themselves to sin ? my forbearing of it may be an occasion of sin to others , as their persisting in some troublesom errour to their own and others spiritual dammage , and in unwarrantable non-compliance with their governours . and the loss of my liberty for publick service consequent to such forbearance , must also be laid in the ballance . when both the using and forbearing of m● liberty is clogged with evil consequents , i kno● no safer way than duly to consider of what moment the consequents are on either side , and t● incline to that which hath the lesser evil . here in the wisdom of the prudent is to direct his wa● upon the impartial view of all circumstance which come under his prospect . and if goo● conscience and right reason , guided by the general rules of gods word , lead me to make us● of my christian liberty in compliance with m● superiors , i must humbly and charitably apply my self to remove the offence , that some take by clearing the lawfulness and expediency o● my act to their judgments . but if that canno● be discerned by them , i am by my christia● good behaviour to make it evident to thei● consciences , what in me lies , that what i do , 〈◊〉 do sincerely and faithfully , and that i am n● temporizer , man-pleaser and self-seeker . 〈◊〉 humbly conceive that that high saying of th● apostle , if meat make my brother to offend , 〈◊〉 will eat no flesh while the world standeth doth admit such equitable interpretation , as th● circumstances of time , place , person , and th● whole state of things declares to be most reasonable . a humble representation of my own case touching the exercise of the ministery . i have been in the ministery near fourty years , having been ordained presbyter according to the form of ordination used in the church of england . and being called to this sacred order , i hold my self ●ndispensibly obliged to the work thereof , as god enables me and gives me opportunity . the nature of the office is signified in the form of words , by which i was solemnly set apart thereunto . viz. [ receive the holy ghost , whose sins thou dost forgive , they are forgiven , and whose sins thou dost retain , ●hey are retained : and be thou a faithfull dispenser of the word of god and of his holy sacraments , in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , amen . ] the former part of these words being used by ●our saviour to his apostles , in conferring upon them the pastoral authority , fully proves that the office of a presbyter is pastoral , and of the same nature with that which was ordinary in the apostles , and in which they had successours . likewise , this church did then appoin● that at the ordering of priests or presbyters certain portions of scripture should be read as belonging to their office to instruct them in the nature of it , viz. that portion o● act. 20. which relates st. pauls sending to ephesus , and calling for the elders of the congregation with his exhortation to them , to take heed to themselves and to all the flock , over which the holy ghost had made them overseers , to rule the congregation of god. or else 1 tim. 3. which sets forth the office and due qualification of a bishop . and afterwards the bishop spake to them that were to receive the office of priesthood , in this form of words , ( ye have heard , brethren , as wel in your private examination , and in the exhortation and holy lessons taken out of the gospels and writings of the apostles , of what dignity , and how great importance this office is whereto ye are called , that is to say the messengers , the watchmen , the pastors and stewards of the lord , to teach , to premonish , to feed , to provide for the lords family . i mention my ordination according to the episcopal form , because it is of greatest esteem with them , to whom this representation is more especially tendred . nevertheless , i own the validity of presbyterial ordination , and judge that ministers so ordained , may make the same defence for exercising the ministery , in the same case that is here represented . christ is the author and the only proper giver of this office ; and though he give it by the mediation of men , yet not by them as giving the office , but as instruments of the designation , or of the solemn investiture of the person to whom he gives it . as the king is the immediate giver of the power of a mayor in a town corporate , when he gives it by the mediation of electors and certain officers , only as instruments of the designation , or of the solemn investiture of the person . i am not conscious of disabling my self to the sacred ministrations , that belong to the office of a presbyter , by any opinion or practice , that may render me unfit for the same . touching which matter , i humbly offer my self to the tryal of my superiors to be made according to gods word . nothing necessary to authorize me to those ministrations is wanting that i know of . i am christs commissioned officer ; and i do not find that he hath revoked the authority which i have received from him ; and without the warrant of his law no man can take it from me . nor do i find , that the nature of this office , or the declared will of christ requires , that it be exercised no otherwise , than in subordination to a disocesan bishop . that i do not exercise the ministery under the regulation of the bishop of the diocess , and in other circumstances according to the present established order , the cause is not in me , who am ready to submit thereunto ; but a bar is laid against me by the injunction of some terms in the lawfulness whereof i am not satisfied , whereof i am ready to give an account when it is required . i do not understand that i am under any oath or promise to exercise the ministery , no otherwise than in subordination to the bishop , or the ordinary of the place . the promise made at my ordination to obey my ordinary and other chief ministers , to whom the government and charge over me is committed , concerns me only as a presbyter , standing in relation to the bishop or ordinary , as one of the clergy of the diocess , or other peculiar jurisdiction , in which relation i do not now stand , being cast out and made uncapable thereof . moreover , in whatsoever capacity i now stand , the said promise must be understood either limitedly or without limitation . if limitedly , as in things lawfull and honest , ( as i conceive it ought to be understood ) then i am not bound by it in the present case . for it is not lawfull nor honest for me to comply with the now injoyned conformity against my conscience , or in case of such necessitated non-compliance , to desist from the ministery that i have received in the lord. if it be understood without limitation , ●t is a sinfull promise in the matter thereof , and ●hereupon void . absolute and unlimited obedience to man may not be promised . let ●t be considered also that the objected promise could not bind me to more than the conformity then required . but since my ordina●ion and promise then made , the state of con●ormity hath been much altered by the injunction of more , and to me harder terms than ●ormerly were injoyned . when i was or●ained , i thought that the terms then requir●d were such as might be lawfully submitted to . but young men ( such as i then was ) may be ●asily drawn to subscribe to things publickly ●njoyned , and so become engaged , before they have well considered . the ordainer or ordainers , who designed me to this office of christs donation , and not ●heirs , could not by any act of theirs lessen it ●s to its nature or essential state . nor can they ●erogate from christs authority over me , and ●he obligation which he hath laid upon me , ●o discharge the office with which he hath ●ntrusted me . that a necessity is laid upon me in my present state to preach the gospel , i am fully perswaded , in regard of the necessities of souls which cry aloud for all the help that can posibly be given by christs ministers , whethe● conformists or nonconformists . the necessary means of their salvation is more valuable than meer external order or uniformity in things accidental . i receive the whole doctrine of faith an● sacraments , according to the articles of th● church of england , and am ready to subscrib● the same . i have joyned , and still am ready to joyn with the legally established churche in their publick worship . the matter o● my sacred ministrations hath been always consonant to the doctrine of the reforme● churches , and particularly of the church o● england . i meddle not with our present differences , but insist on the great and necessar● points of christian religion . i design not th● promoting of a severed party , but of mee christianity or godliness . i am willing to comply with the will 〈◊〉 my superiors as far as is possible with a saf● conscience , and to return to my ministeri●● station in the established churches , may i b● but dispensed with in the injunctions , wit● which my conscience , till i be otherwise informed , forbids me to comply . in the whol● of my dissent from the said injunctions , i ca● not be charged with denying any thing essen●●al to christian faith and life , or to the ●onstitution of a church , or any of the weigh●er matters of religion , or with being in any ●hing inconsistent with good order and go●ernment . my case , as i have sincerely set it forth , i ●umbly represent to the clemency of my go●ernours , and to the charity , equity and candor ●f all christs ministers and people . i am sure design to follow after the things which make ●or peace ; and i hope i am not mistaken in ●he way to it . j. c. finis . books lately printed for tho. parkhurst at the bible and three crowns in cheap side . one hundred of select sermon upon several occasions , by tho. horton , d. d. sermons on the 4th . psal. 42. psal. 5● and 63. psal. by tho. horton , d. d. a compleat martyrology , both of fo raign and english martyrs , with th● lives of 26 modern divines , by sam clark. a discourse of actual providence by john collings , d. d. an exposition on the 5 first chapter of the revelation of jesus christ , 〈◊〉 charles phelpes . a discourse of grace and temptat●on , by tho. froysall . the revival of grace . sacrament reflections on the death of christ testator . a sacrifice and curse , by john hur● a glimps of eternity to awaken sinners and comfort saints , by ab. coley . which is the church , or an answer to the question , where was your church before luther ? by rich. baxter . the husbandmans companion , or meditations sutable for farmers , in order to spiritualize their employment , by edward bury . mr. adams exposition of the assemb . catechism , showing its harmony with the articles and homilies of the church of england . the present state of new-england , with the history of their wars with the indies . popery an enemy to truth and civil government , by jo. sheldeck . spelling book for children , by tho. lye. principals of christian religion , with practical applications to each head , by tho. gouge . almost christian , by matth. mead. godly mans ark , by edmund calamy . heaven and hell on earth in a good or bad conscience , by nath. vincent . little catechism for children , with short histories , which may both please and profit them , by nath. vincent . ark of the covenant , with an epistle prefixed by john owen , d. d. this author hath lately published this book intituled , the kingdom of god among men . a tract of the sound state of religion , or that christianity which is described in the holy scriptures , and of things that make for the security and increase thereof in the world , designing its more ample diffusion among professed christians of all sorts , and its surer propagation to future ages . printed for tho. parkhurst . a sermon preached to the right honourable the lord mayor, and court of aldermen of the city of london, at their anniversary meeting on easter monday april 1652, at the spittle wherein the unity of the saints with christ, the head, and especially with the church, the body, with the duties thence arising, are endeavoured to be cleared : tending to heale our rents and divisions / by stephen marshal ... marshall, stephen, 1594?-1655. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a52054 of text r206697 in the english short title catalog (wing m782). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 109 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 23 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a52054 wing m782 estc r206697 12951588 ocm 12951588 95931 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a52054) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 95931) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 720:9) a sermon preached to the right honourable the lord mayor, and court of aldermen of the city of london, at their anniversary meeting on easter monday april 1652, at the spittle wherein the unity of the saints with christ, the head, and especially with the church, the body, with the duties thence arising, are endeavoured to be cleared : tending to heale our rents and divisions / by stephen marshal ... marshall, stephen, 1594?-1655. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a52054 of text r206697 in the english short title catalog (wing m782). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread [4], 40 p. printed by r.i. for stephen bowtel ..., london : 1653. marginal notes. reproduction of original in huntington library. eng schism -sermons. communion of saints -sermons. christian union -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. a52054 r206697 (wing m782). civilwar no a sermon preached to the right honourable the lord mayor, and court of aldermen of the city of london, at their anniversary meeting on easte marshall, stephen 1652 21393 25 0 0 0 0 0 12 c the rate of 12 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-10 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-10 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-11 jonathan blaney sampled and proofread 2004-11 jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached to the right honourable the lord mayor , and court of aldermen of the city of london , at their anniversary meeting on easter monday april 1652 , at the spittle . wherein the unity of the saints with christ , the head , and especially with the church , the body ; with the duties thence arising , are endeavoured to be cleared . tending to heale our rents and divisions . the second impression , corrected by the authour . by stephen marshal b. d. and minister of the gospel at finchingfield in essex . 1 cor. 12. 13. by one spirit we are all baptized into one body , whether wee be jewes or gentiles , whether we be bond or free , and have been all made to drinke into one spirit . zach. 8. 19. therefore love the truth and peace . london printed by r. i. for stephen bowtel , at the bible in popes head-alley . 1653. to the right honourable the lord mayor , and court of aldermen , of the famous city of london . right honourable : my earnest desire to help quench the flames of our church-divisions , which threaten destruction to us all , put mee upon the study of this theame , when i was called to preach at your late solemne anniversary meeting ; the same desire hath perswaded me to yeeld ready obedience to your order for the publishing of it . i doubt not , but as it was the prayer of our blessed saviour , that all his saints might be one ; so it is the desire of all true christians , that jesus christ would make all his to be of one mind , and of one heart , and when they cannot be of one minde , yet to be of one heart , and i am as assured , that in his due time he will effect it ; when that blessed time is approaching , such doctrines , as this plaine sermon holds forth , will be more seriously studied , and more readily imbraced , then they are at this day . if this mite may contribute any thing to it , yea , if it doe but provoke divided and ingaged men , to search the scriptures , whether these things here delivered be true , or not , and especially , if it occasion some other of his servants , who have obtained greater ability , and more leasure , to arise , and put their hand to this worke of reconciliation , and pacification ; i should then hope , that the day-star of our peace begun to appear ; however , i have peace in the discharge of my duty , and humbly commend the healing of all our breaches to him , who is the prince of peace ; to him also i commend your selves and your great work , and subscribe my selfe , your servant in , and for the lord , stephen marshall . the unity of the saints with christ , and especially among themselves . rom. 12. 4 , 5. for as we have many members in one body , and all members have not the same office ; so we , being many , are one body in christ , and every one members one of another . that you may the better understand the true scope of the holy ghost in these words , it is necessary that i carry you a little back . the apostle having in the eleven first chapters at large opened the doctrine of faith , begins in this twelfth chapter with the second part of our christian religion , which is the doctrine of evangelicall obedience , and there hee first propounds the generall nature of it , that it is a giving up of our selves to be holy and living sacrifices unto god , yeelding unto him a reasonable service . secondly , he sets it out by the generall rule of it , and that is first negative , not to bee conformed to the world , the modes , and customes , and manners of men . and secondly , positive , viz. to search and know with a renewed minde , what is the will of god , and , as the will of god is discovered , to imbrace and obey it , acknowledging it to be a good and an acceptable will to us ; these two are generall . then in the next place hee begins more particularly to shew wherein this will of god doth stand , or what he hath revealed for the direction of his people . and in the third verse he doth propound one particular rule , to which ( because he would have it take the better place ) he makes this preface , i say , through the grace , that ▪ is given me ; as if hee should have said , i propound that which through mercy , i well understand to be a most excellent and necessary rule , viz. that every one would be earefull to imploy that talent , which the lord hath trusted him with , within the compasse of his owne line and place , thereby to be usefull and profitable to the whole , that is the scope of those words , that no man should thinke more highly of himselfe , then he ought to thinke , but to think soberly , according as god hath dealt to every man the measure of faith , the same thing which the apostle , 1 cor. 12. 7. means by the manifestation of the spirit , which is given to every man to profit withall , to be faithfull in the imployment of that talent , which the lord hath be trusted him with , and to use it within the bounds of his own line and calling , and not to thrust himselfe into other mens office or worke , which the apostle afterward more fully prosecutes verse 6 , 7 , 8. now because some man might a little wonder that the apostle should begin with this , as the very first duty , which he imposeth upon christians , that therefore the necessity and weight of it might the more appear , he useth a most apt and elegant similitude ; look as it is in the natural body of man , the members are very many , take the joynts and sinews , nerves , and vaines , &c , there are abundance of them , and every one of them is indowed with some faculty or other , and all the multitude of members doe make but one body , wherein every member doing its owne office , the whole is nourished , and should they neglect the performance of what god in nature had intrusted them with , or should not each of them keepe to their owne worke , this neglect or disorder would tend to the destruction of the whole ; even so hath the lord appointed and ordered it in the church of christ , that all the people of god , scattered throughout the world , though their multitude bee not to be numbred , yet all these are all compacted by the lords institution into one body , and in this one body , they are all of them not onely members of jesus christ the head , but every one of them members one of another , and given gifts and abilities to be imployed by them for their common good , each needing another , each bound to helpe one another , and by what every one is bound in his place to supply , the whole church , ( which is the body of christ ) growes up to perfection , as is most excellently laid down , ephes. 4. 16. and thus i have brought you to my text , and opened the generall scope and meaning of it , which words in themselves doe containe the unity of the saints in one body with christ the head , and each of them one with another , from which without any more preamble or interpretation , i propound this one onely lesson , viz. the whole church , or the collection or aggregation of all the saints , are one body in christ , of which body christ is the head , and all the saints are members . which i will indeavour briefly to explain , and then come to that branch which i have chosen to insist upon this day . know then that our lord jesus christ in the scripture is said to have a twofold body , the one a natural body , that body which was conceived in the wombe of the virgin , which was borne into the world , wherein christ lived , which dyed , rose againe , and is now ascended up into heaven , this natural body of christ is not the body meant in my text . but secondly , christ hath another body very often mentioned in the scripture , which is called his mysticall body , or a body in a mystery : but because that may be looked upon , but as a blinde , which every man may interpret according to his own fancy , therefore the spirit of god hath taught us , that the collection or aggregation , or the thus gathering together of all the saints in one , which the scripture cals the body of christ , though it be not his naturall body , yet it is to him as his naturall body , and this i pray you to marke , and give me leave to prove , because it is the onely foundation of all the discourse , that i am this day to make to you ; i say , the church , when the scripture cals it the body of christ , is to him , as his naturall body , that is , they stand to christ in the same relation that the naturall body doth stand to the naturall head , and christ stands to them in the same relation , that a natural head doth to the naturall body , and all the members , that is , all beleevers , or saints ' , stand in the same relation one to another , as the members of a naturall body doe stand one to another : this i say , is the foundation of all , and out of the many texts which might bee alledged , to prove it , i shall onely ( to this which i have in hand , which saith expresly that wee are all one body in christ , and every one members one of another ) mention two more , which are so plaine , that he that runs may read this truth in them ; one is in the 1 cor. 12. indeed almost the whole chapter is a proofe , and an improvement of this one truth : the apostle tels them in the beginning of the chapter , that there are given to the church , diversities of gifts , diversities of administrations , diversities of operations , and all these come from the same spirit , and this spirit that gives these gifts , and administrations , and operations , hee gives them all to this end , that there may be a profiting of the whole : and presently ( that you may understand his meaning ) tels us , that look as it is in the naturall body , there is abundance of members joyned , and every one have their severall office for the good of all , so is christ , saith he by christ , there , he doth not mean jesus christ in his humane nature onely , but christ mysticall , christ and all his members gathered into one ; and then goes on in the thirteenth verse , and tels us , that by one spirit we are all baptized into one body , whether jewes or gentiles , bond , or free , and are all made to drink into one spirit , and so , throughout to the end of the chapter , prosecutes the same comparison of christs being as a naturall head to his church , and all the saints , as naturall members to christ , and one to another , and the duties which follow thereupon . the other place is ephes. 4 from 12. to 17. in the beginning of the chapter , he exhorted them earnestly to live in love , and keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace ; to provoke them the better to it , he shews them verse 4. 5 , and 6. in how many things they are one ( of which you shal hear more afterward . ) then vers . 7. he addes , that each of them had received gifts , which were the fruits of christs ascention , all which were given for the converting , edifying , and perfecting of the body of christ , untill it attaine unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ , that they all might grow up in all things unto him that is the head , even christ . now that it might appear what kinde of head and body is meant , he presently fals upon this similitude of a naturall body , verse 16. from whom the whole body fitly joyned and compacted together , by that which every joynt supplieth according to the effectual working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the whole body to the edifying of it selfe in love . and almost parallel to this is , col. 2. 19. where the apostle tels us , that from christ the head , all the body by joynts and bands is knit together , receives nourishment administred , and so increaseth with the increase of god . nothing can be plainer , that , look as it is in the naturall body , the lord hath so cast it , and what the head doth for its part , the liver for its part , the heart for its part , the brain for its part , and every joynt and sinew for its part , the whole body growes up to a full stature , and all grows up together ; so hath the lord ordained , and cast it to be in the church of christ . now this foundation being laid , that though the church be not christs naturall body , it is yet as his naturall body . the great question is , wherein doth this comparison or resemblance stand ? to that i answer first : it is easie for a man to name many particulars , wherein the comparison will not hold betwixt the church and a naturall body : and it is as easie for a man to name many things wherein they are very like one to another ; but we must not be wise beyond the scripture , nor stretch it any further then the lord intends it ; i humbly conceive that the comparison lies properly in these two things . first , that as in the naturall body the members , and every member hath a reall union with the head , for its owne part , having the same spirit animating it that is in the head , and thereby hath a communion with , and dependance upon the head in all the offices that the head can do for it ; so every particular christian , or member of the church , hath a reall , indissoluble , spiritual union , and conjunction with the lord jesus christ , having his spirit communicated unto them , which is the foundation of all their communion , the very root and principle of their spirituall life , and which inables them every one for their part to live unto christ , that is one . secondly , which is the thing i intend , that as in the natural body all the members doe not onely meet in the head , as all the lines do meet in a center , and are one there , though they do not touch one another anywhere else , but they are all by the wonderfull power and wisdome of god so contrived , and compacted , and joyned together , that they have a reall union one with another ; so in this mystical and spiritual body , all the saints have not only each for his owne part a union and conjunction with jesus christ ▪ but also a reall union and conjunction one with another , which is the foundation of many duties , which every one of them are thereby bound to perform one to another , and of many priviledges , which thereby they injoy with ▪ and by one another , as shall , god willing ▪ be afterwards opened unto you . now this my text speakes as plainly as any man could wish , when it saith , that we being many , that is , all we christians , all that truly beleeve in , and professe the name of christ , being very many , are all one body in christ ; that is , we all meet , and are one in him , and that is not all , but we are also all of us members one of another . now the first of these , the reall , indissoluble , and spirituall union , that all the people of christ have with christ their head , is a most divine , excellent and necessary truth , and indeed , is the foundation , and principle of all our christian life , and therefore most worthy to be understood by all gods people : but that not being the maine drift of the holy ghost in this place , i forbear to speak of at this time , and shal treat only of the second , and that is the union and conjunction that is , and ought to be between all the people of jesus christ one with another , they being members one of another ; and therein shall indeavour first to prove and clear it , and then hasten to the application of it . for the proof of it , i shall not need any other texts , then those that i have mentioned already , that 1 cor. 12. how fully and clearly doth the apostle teach , that the eye , the hand , the foot , and every member are for the good , and use of the whole , and none of them can say i have no need of thee , or i have no need of thee ; god having so ordered it , that every one of them needs one another , and every one of them are , and ought to be usefull one to another ; yea , that even the most mean and feeble of all the members , are not onely of the body as well as the rest , but are necessary to the good of the whole , and those members which we are prone to think lesse honourable , and more uncomely , god hath appointed in this mysticall body , as well as in our naturall bodies to have the more honour put upon them . and so in that other fore-mentioned place , the fourth of the ephesians , where he saith , that the whole body being joyned together by that that every joynt supplieth , &c. there is not the least joynt , but it makes for the supply , for the edification of the whole . to these might be added all those places , which speake of the church , as one corporation or body under other resemblances , one vine , one house , one city , &c. whereof very many do occur in the holy scriptures ; but all these things will be clearer in my subsequent discourse , wherein for the fuller clearing the doctrinal part , i shall a little insist upon two maine questions , and then endeavour to resolve a doubt or two , which may seem to lye as objections against all the saints making but one body . first , if the saints bee one body , &c. it may bee demanded , wherein this unity of the saints stands , or what are the things wherein all the members of christ have union one with another ? secondly , if they be thus all one , what are the bands and ligaments , whereby this vast multitude are all of them tyed thus firmly together ? for the first , if all the church and people of jesus christ be all really one , one with another , and have thereby a communion one with another ; the question is , what are those things wherein they are thus one ? to which i answer , the particulars are both many and excellent ; but because i would not burden your memories , i desire you to turne to , and consider with me but one onely text , which indeed doth comprehend the sum of all that can be said about it , and that is eph. 4. ver. 4 , 5 , 6. the apostle exhorting all the saints to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , the better to encourage them to it , useth this motive , for there is one body , and one spirit , and one hope of your calling , one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god , and father of all , who is above you all , and through you all , and in you all . now in these seven unities are comprehended all the things , wherein all the saints of christ are one ; therefore i shall endeavour briefly to open them . first , they are all of them one body , that is , all gods people throughout all the world , are but one incorporation , and there is no one of them but hee hath as really a membership in the body of christ , as any other of them ; as in an army , though every one be not an officer , nor every souldier equally valiant , or skilfull , yet every one is equally a member of the army ; and as in a city , or corporation , every free-man , though no mayor , alderman , or master of a company , &c. yet is as really a member of the city as any other ; or look as in a building , it may be some rooms may be larger , beautifuller and usefuller , yet there is not the least stud , the least naile , the least pin , but it is as really a part of the building , as the maine post that upholds it ; so take the church of christ , which is made up of the collection , and aggregation of all gods people , there is not one of them , but hee may truly say , i am a part of that house , body , or building of jesus christ , as reall as any other . secondly , and they are all one in this , that there is but one spirit , which i thinke signifies these two things ( for other scriptures teach me so to interpret it ; ) first , they are all of them animated and led by the selfe-same spirit , that as the members of the body , though they be ( it may be ) many hundreds , yet there is one individual soule that animates them all ; so in the church of christ , all the saints , every one of them have the selfe-same spirit of jesus christ , which is the principle of their life , and animates every one of them ; but that is not all : but by the same spirit , he secondly means the spirit , as it is the administrator , or distributor of all the gifts of christ , that whatsoever gifts , graces , operations , administrations are to be found in the whole church , the self-same spirit distributes his gifts variously , as he pleaseth , to some more , and to some lesse , yet gives them all to , and for the good of the whole church in generall , and for every member in its particular ; so the spirit of god himselfe interprets this , in the first of the corinthians , and the twelfth , from ver. 4. to 14. there are diversities of gifts , but the same spirit , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every one to profit withall , to one is given a word of wisdome , to another the word of knowledge , to another faith , to another the gift of healing , &c. but all these worketh that one and the self-same spirit ; dividing to every man severally , as he will , that is the second , they are all one body , and they have one spirit . thirdly , and they are all one in this , that they all have the same hope of their calling ; by hope , there , is not meant the grace of hope , whereby we expect and waite for the good that christ hath purchased for us , but there it signifies the object of hope , and therefore is called the hope of our calling , which in other places is called the hope set before us , and plainly signifies that , which the holy ghost cals the common salvation of all gods people , the meanest as well as the greatest have a share in the great things laid up in store for them all , which they all aspire to , and seek after , and in the end doe all injoy , which is , the end of their faith and hope , the salvation of their soules ; there is one body , one spirit , one hope of their calling . fourthly , they have all one lord ; one lord , what is that ? to interpret this aright , bee pleased to remember this one rule , that where-ever in the new testament you find god , and lord , both mentioned together , to signifie distinct persons , lord always signifies jesus christ , as mediator , as in 1 cor. 8. and other places , there are gods many , and lords many , but we have but one god that is over all , and one lord , by whom are all things , and we by him ; so that by one lord he there means , that all the saints throughout the world have their addresse to god , only in the name and mediation of the same lord jesus christ , they have but one advocate , one intercessour ; one mediator between god and them , and by whom alone are communicated to them all the good things , which come from god . then fifthly , they have all one faith , there is one lord , and one faith ; i conceive that there by faith is not meant the grace of faith , ( although if that be meant , as i shal shew you by and by , yet they have all that one faith ) but there , he meanes by faith , the rule , doctrine , and object of faith , the doctrine which is beleeved , and signifies , that all the saints throughout the world doe by faith receive , and beleeve the selfe-same truths , which give them an interest in god , and our lord jesus christ , & which carry them to eternal salvation . now because this seemes a little difficult , i must endeavour a little more fully to cleare it , then i have done any of the former : i say , all the members of christ throughout the world have one faith ; the meaning is , in every age , and every corner of the world , where christ hath any of his people , there are some common doctrines , wherein salvation is to be found , in which all gods people doe agree , each of them beleeving , and receiving them for his particular ; for although great clerkes doe know and understand many truthes , which others are ignorant of ; yea , and among the people of christ there are great differences , and divisions in their opinions in many particular things of weight and concernment , yet if you sever the things , wherein they differ one from another , and set them aside , and gather into one symboll or summe those great truthes , wherein they all agree , there wil be found so much truth imbraced by all the people of god , which wil bring them all to salvation , being really beleeved , and answered with a holy conversation . for instance , looke this day into all the corners of the earth , east , west , north , and south , where the name of christ is knowne and professed , the great fundamental doctrines , which bring salvation , are received by all the members of christ . truth is , there are in many places damnable heresies superinduced , which , if received , the foundation is destroyed ; but christs spirit in all the saints either make them see the danger of them , and abhor them , or else in mercy keep them ignorant of them , and so i doubt not but it is , even in the church of rome this day ( among whom christ wil have a people to be called out from among them , when that babilon is to be destroyed ) though their doctrine in the grosse summe , as set forth in the councel of trent , wil not stand with salvation , yet some latent members of christs church among them , doe through mercy see , and shun those things which are damnable , or are ignorant of that mystery of iniquity , and place all their hope of salvation in christ alone , and lead their lives in holinesse , according to their measure of light received . the summe of all comes to this : that among all christs people in the world , there is imbraced so much truth , as being accompanied with an answerable conversation , wil save them , and notwithstanding the remainders of their mistakes , errours , corruptions of judgement about lesser truthes , and corruptions in their conversations , we may comfortably say of them all , as the apostle doth in the sixth of the galathians , as many as walk according to this rule , peace be upon them , and upon the israel of god . this is the fifth thing , that all the saints in every corner of the world have one faith : and if also you would take faith for the grace of faith , whereby each for their part are united to jesus christ , which faith also is the principle of that life of grace , which the saints lead in this world , ( for we live by faith ) in this also all gods people in the world have the same faith , which is therefore called the faith of gods elect , and the like precious faith ; so they are one body , have one spirit , one hope of their calling , one lord , one faith . then 6ly , and they have all one baptism , which is not to be taken literally , barely for the sacrament of washing with water , but either it is taken , as some interpret it , for the spiritual part of baptisme , which is their new birth , the washing away of their sins , and the washing of them with gods spirit ; or rather , as it was the custom in the jewish church , to have all their ordinances signified by circumcision ( whence therefore , all who imbraced the jewes manner of worship , are called the circumcision ) because it was the first ordinance , and that which sealed them to all the rest ; so i conceive he meanes by baptisme , that as it is the first ordinance , so it is here used to expresse all gospel institutions , so that by one baptisme he meanes , that gods people all have the same ordinances , or meanes for their edification , and building up in christ . and then lastly , they have all one god , and father of all , who is above them all , and through them all , and in them all , which signifies that they all have one god , which is their soveraigne lord , the father , of whom originally are all things , and to whom alone , as supreame , all their addresses are made in the mediation of christ , and in whom alone they all acquiesce , and rest , as their supream good , and last end , and is therefore here said to be above them all , and through them all , and in them all ; above all in regard of his soveraignty , and divine eminency ; through them in regard both of his providentiall , and gracious administrations , and in them all in regard of his neare relation , and conjuction with them in christ his sonne ; in all these seven things all the people of god throughout the world are one , they all of them have a state , standing and membership in the same body , they all are anoynted by the same spirit , and all the gifts of the spirit are intended for the good of them all , they all have the same common salvation , they all have their accesse to god in the name and mediation of the same christ , and all doe imbrace the same common truths , they all live upon the same gospel-ordinances , and administrations , and they all serve , and reverence , and seeke to injoy and rest in one supream god , who is our god , and the god of our lord and saviour jesus christ , in all these things they have copartnership , fellowship , and are herein as i may say , heires in gavel-kinde . and let this be for the first question , viz. what are the things wherein all the saints and people of christ are one ? the second is , what are the bands that doe tye all the saints , and people of christ thus together ? surely , it must needs be some strange genius of government , that must be able to keep in one such infinite multitudes , so differing in their languages , in their birth , in their spirits , in their educations , in almost all things , wherein temperature or corruption can make men opposite , and contrary one to another ; what strange band must it be , which can keep all these so united , that you may predicate all these seven things of every one of them . i answer ; the bands of them are not any politick tricks of mens devising ; the church of rome saith , it is impossible the church of christ should be kept thus in unity , unlesse you allow some visible head , that may have a visible government over all , and upon whose judgement and decision , all must depend ; but we need not look after any such devices , the bands are of jesus christs own appointing and giving , which are these two . the first is , his holy spirit given to every one of them , which doth not only serve , as a band to tye them all to christ their head , but this self-same spirit is intended by christ the head to be the band , that should tye them all one to another , and therefore it is said , 1 cor. 12 , 13. that we are all made to drinke into one spirit , that as we are all united into one head , so we are all made to drink into one spirit : conceive it thus ; the lord jesus being the quickning head of all his people , gives the self same spirit ( which resides in him without all measure ) and pouring it out in what measure he pleaseth upon all his people ; this spirit makes them all so to understand his laws , rules , and directions , that without any other teachers ( not excluding the use of his owne ordinances , but any device or policy of men ) he makes them all to understand what is the minde of their lord , which are the duties imposed upon them by their lord , and so inlightning their minds , and ruling their hearts , makes them conformable to all his good pleasure , and thereby keeps them all in this peace , and unity one with another . a most excellent instance you have of this in esa. 11. where the lord christ is spoken of , first , as he is the head ; and of him it is said there , that he hath the spirit of wisdome , and the spirit of knowledge , and the spirit of the feare of the lord , signifying thereby how fitted and inabled he is to the worke , of being head of the church , to ver. 5. then afterwards , ver. 6 &c. he tels you , how all his people shal be associated , and joyned together , that the wolfe shal agree with the lamb , the leopard with the kid , the calf , and the young lion , and a little child shal lead them , the cow and the bear , the sucking child and the asp , the weaned childe , and the cockatrice , none shal hurt other , that is , people , who before they came under christs government , were as lions , beares , and serpents one towards another , shal now all be united , and live in peace . what strange discipline must it be , that can make lions and lambs , tigers , and cockatrices , and little kids and children , agree thus together ? the reason of it is given in the ninth verse , all the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the lord ; that is , that spirit of knowledge , which jesus christ is endowed with , shal be poured out upon all the lords people , and them let them be of what nature or disposition they wil , as this spirit prevailes , where he doth but informe them , that this or that is the minde of christ , this spirits teaching wil make them all of one minde , and all live in peace thus one with another : and this is the same , which the lord elsewhere promiseth both in 11. of ezek. and the 36. of ezek. i will put my spirit in them , end cause them to walke in my statutes , and keep my ordinances , and my judgements , and doe them . now this band of the spirit of christ , is such a band of union , which none of all the heathen philosophers , or law-givers , ever so much as dreamed of : plato , lycurgus , or any of them , who have framed plat-formes of common-wealths , and propounded meanes , how all the subjects should be kept in concord and peace , could never once thinke of such a thing as this is ; but our head the lord jesus hath both promised and done it . then secondly , there is another band , which is a secondary and subordinate band , and that is the grace of love , the grace of christian love , and charity , which in this place you are not to look upon only , as a particular grace , a branch of the image of christ , as all other saving graces are , but as a grace exalted by christ to this peculiar office , that it should be the band to tye all the lords people in one , and so the scripture saith expresly of it . the apostle paul having opened the conjunction of all the saints in one body , 1 cor. 12. doth in the latter end of the chapter exhort them all to labour after the best gifts , which might edifie the church ; but behold ( saith he ) i wil shew you a more excellent way : a more excellent way then what ? why a more excellent way for edification of the church , then apostles , prophets , pastors , teachers , governments , helps , take them all ; he would shew them an excellent way beyond all these : what is that ? the grace of love ; which he discourses of throughout the whole thirteenth chapter , and tels you all miracles , all abilities to preach , all that it is possible for man to be endowed with , are not able to doe that good to the church which the grace of love doth . and the same apostle paul , col. 3. when he had exhorted gods people to seeke after , and put on all those graces , wherein the new creature stands , bowels of mercy , kindnesse , humblenesse of minde , &c. adds ver. 14. but above all put on love ; why ? it is the band of perfection , it is the perfect band , or the band that perfectly tyes all gods people together . and therefore our saviour christ in iohn . 13. 34 , 35. makes it the livery of the church , whereby in all places of the world they may be knowne to be his disciples , even by their loving one another ; and therefore also the apostle in the fourth of the ephesians , vers. 16. when he had shewed that every joynt contributes , and supplyes its part towards the building up of the whole body , concludes it thus ; by that which every joynt supplyeth according to the effectuall working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body unto the building up of it selfe in love ; as if the grace of love were the thing that ran through them all , and gave vigour and strength to them all , in their working one with another , and one for another . thus you have heard what the things are , wherein all the saints are one , and what the bands are , whereby they are thus united . now before i proceed to the application , of necessity i must remove one great doubt out of the way : it may be said , if the church of christ be but one church , whence comes it , that wee read mention of so many churches , of a triumphant church , and a militant church , of a visible , and an invisible church , of the church at jerusalem , the churches of judea , the churches of galatia , the seven churches , all the churches where the scripture doth mention so many churches , how are these expressions reconciled with this , that all gods people are but one church ? i answer ; first , it is most cleare , that jesus christ hath but one mystical church , which is his body ; the church of christ is as we say in logick , species specialissima , it cannot be sub-divided into other churches , if we wil speake properly ; but though it be but one body , one reall individuall church , yet this one church is capable of severall distributions , from some properties , or qualities , or adjuncts which are found in it , and those distributions , or considerations of it , doe , and may in some sence obtaine the name of the church . to give you a little taste , the church of christ , though it be but one , yet it is sometimes considered , distributed , or distinguished according to the manner , and the measure of the communion , which the parts and members inioy with their head , thus ; one part of this church injoyes communion with the head by sight , and not by faith , and the communion which they have with christ is perfect , freed from all imperfections , or infirmities , or crosses , in this respect these members are called the triumphant church . another part of the same church hath communion with christ by faith , and not by sight , and the communion which it injoyes with him is imperfect in all the graces , and mingled with corruptions , temptations , and afflictions , in respect whereof this part of the church is called the militant church , but all these are not two churches , but one church , only one part of it hath shot the gulfe , and is at rest , and the other is in another condition here upon earth . secondly , that part of it which is upon earth , in regard that the very life and being of it , and of all the members of it , lye in internall graces , which cannot be seen , in that respect the church of christ is called an invisible church ; but now as the same church and members doe make an outward profession of their faith , and obedience , sensibly to the eyes and eares of others , in that respect it is called a visible church ; but the visible is not one church , and the invisible another church , but meerly the same church under severall denominations , the one from their constituting graces , the other from the external profession of them : how men , who have no grace , come to be accounted a part of the church , i shal endeavour to expound afterwards . or , thirdly , take it thus ; the selfe-same church of christ at one time hath been trained up under one kind of outward administration , and forme of worship and government , one before christs incarnation , and that is called the church of the jewes ; since christs time there is another administration , and thence it comes to be called the church of the gentiles : but jewes and gentiles before and since christs incarnation , are but one church ; so likewise you may read that jesus christ , though he have but one church , yet he hath appointed that the multitude of those , who professe his name , for their better discipline , instruction , and edification , should be ranged , and ranked , and ordered into particular assemblies ; now in regard of this marshalling , and disciplining of them , these severall associations , or congregations make so many churches , but these churches are not severall bodies of christ , but only parts of his one body ; as in a great army , the number of all , who ▪ have listed their name in the muster-role , are all under one generall , and all under some generall officers , but yet for their better ordering , there is this brigade , this regiment , or that troop , or that company , and every one of these under some meaner officers , yet all of these taken together are all but one army , so is it in the church . i might adde , that sometimes these several associations are distinguished and known by the outward confessions which they make of their faith , and in that respect you have in our dayes the churches of the reformation , the protestants , and the reformed protestants and these againe according to some of their confessions are purer , and holier then others . and just as it is in a great building , some rooms ( it may be ) are more light and glorious , and some of them more dark , and it may be some of them have more weak timber , and other materials , then the rest , and yet all of them are but parts of the self-same house . so i say , all these , triumphant , militant , jewes , gentiles , visible , invisible , the severall churches in the several quarters of the world , in the east , west , north , and south , all these , or rather the members of christ in all these taken together , doe make up that one church of christ , which is his body , his spouse , his kingdome , his city , his vine , his love , his dove , his turtle , his only one of her mother . now , whether this church of christ , that is thus one , be authorised to meet in her representatives to make lawes , and to exercise discipline ? whether it be the first subject of the keys , whether the government of particular congregations slow from this church to the rest ? or whether any wayes at all it may doe any judicial , or judiciary act , is a most noble question , and much disputed amongst learned divines , especially in our latter age ; my haste doth not allow me to meddle with that controversie , only thus much i may safely assert : 1 that all the officers , offices , and gifts , that christ gave , when he ascended up into heaven , he gave them all to this church , and they all serve for the gathering , edifying , and perfecting of this church . 2 and as any ever were , or are converted to christ from the world , they are all primarily added to this church . 3 yea , and all , whether particular christians , or numbers of christians associated , all are to act , as parts of this church , and consequently in reference to the good of this whole church , all having such relation to , and dependance upon this church , as parts have to the whole : and a standing in a particular church-relation doth no more take off from duties to this great body , which is the great common-wealth , then the jewes being ranked under their several tribes , or in their particular cities , were taken off from the duties , which they owed to the whole common-wealth of israel , &c. that therefore he who is justly ( clave non errante ) excommunicated , or cast out of any particular church , is cast out from all churches , as he who is shut out of any one gate of a city , is shut out of every ward of that city , yea , out of the whole city it selfe . having thus farre cleared the doctrinall part , i now proceed to the application of it , and there are many excellent uses , which this lesson doth afford , i shal handle only two at this time , 1. for instruction , 2. for duty . first for instruction , from all this it appeares , that to be a member of the church of christ , or the association of all gods people into this one body , is the only desirable good fellowship , and society in this world . you shal read of a great many other fellowships , and co-partnerships : you may read in the first of the proverbs of a fellowship of theeves , in isa. 56. of a company of drunkards , in psal. 2. of a society of malignants , and abundance of several companies , and societies of men there are , some joyned for pleasure , some for profit , and many glory , and take great content in the society , and fellowship , and fruit they enjoy , in those whom they are linked with : but ah ! beloved , when things are rightly viewed , it will appeare , that the congregation , or the society of the church of the first borne , whose names are written in heaven , wherein all the saints of god from the beginning of the world to the end of it , are all joyned in one body , all of them united to christ , and one to another , having the same spirit , the same lord , the same hope , all of them one in all these seven things , which i have opened to you ; it will , i say , one day appeare , this is the only desirable society under heaven . let them therefore , who are men of other societies , glory as much as they please in their supposed good fellowship , when in the meane time they are strangers from the common-wealth of israel ; but let us count our selves happy , that we have a part and lot in this communion , wherein we have fellowship not only one with another , but with the father , and his sonne jesus christ . secondly , it hence also followes for our instruction , that none in all the world are , or ought to be judged members of the church of christ , but only those that have the spirit of jesus christ in them , really regenerate , really holy , really united to christ the head , these and no other are members of the church , which is christs body , which is a lesson of very great use . you all know there is at this day much disputing , about what things are requisite to make men church-members ; some very learned men maintain , that to make a man admittable into christs church , or to make him a church-member , no more is in the scripture required , but only , that he give up his name , and professe , that he is willing to learne the wayes of christ , and to walke in them ; the church of christ being , say they , appointed as a schoole , to traine schollars up , into which are admitted not only those that are learned , but those who are willing to learne . others say , that is too laxe , if you wil own a man , as a church-member , he must be able to give you an account of his faith , and a promise of a voluntary subjection to the gospel of christ for time to come , and if they come to that , then you may take them in ; and owne them , as church-members . others say , you must yet goe further , unlesse you can in the judgement of your owne charity conceive , that the worke of grace is really wrought in their hearts , you are not to owne them , or joyne with them , if you can probably hope that , then you may take them in . others will goe yet further , and say , these things are not sufficient , for unlesse there be a right admission by baptisme , when you make your first confession , all the rest is in vaine , and upon these points we dispute , till we have disputed our selves into a thousand peeces . now brethren , be pleased to know , that though there be good use of these debates , to direct us to know the persons , with whom we may exercise the acts of communion in the wayes and worship of christ , yet none of all these rise up , to prove a man to be a member of the church of jesus christ ; there are indeed signes , and rules , that may teach us , with whom we may joyne in visible and external fellowship , and whom we may reject , or cast out , if they be taken in ; but these are not rules to make us know , who are reall members of the church of christ ; indeed as the church is denominated from some external things , these rules direct us to judge with whom , and to whom we may communicate in those external things , but these are clearly two distinct questions , with whom we may joyne in visible and externall communion , and who are truly members of this church of christ , of the latter there is but one note , and that is , if they be united to christ the head , have the quickning spirit of christ in them , and the grace of love wrought in them , which note is invisible , and not external , and can be knowne only in our owne consciences ; if this be wanting , let men carry themselves never so wel , so that all the people of christ under heaven should owne them , yet jesus christ ownes them not , and you may truly say , that all they , who have not communion with god the father , and the lord jesus , and his holy spirit , have no reall communion with the saints ; therefore let no man rest , or pride himselfe in being joyned in this , or that church-fellowship , a carnal , or unconverted man , whatsoever his outward shape or mould be in his profession , that man for his spiritual standing belongs to another corporation . there are two great spiritual corporations , the one is , that whe●eof christ is the head ; the other is , the corporation of hel , whereof the devil is the prince ; now all men , let them be of what profession they wil , if they be not under christ the head , they belong to another corporation , and their external visible profession alters not their spiritual relation . a lump of lead , whilst it is in the lump , it is a lump of base metall , called lead , melt this , and mould it into the forme of a beast , what is it then ? it is but a leaden beast ; melt it , and mould it againe into the forme of a man , it is but a leaden man ; melt it , and mould it againe , into the forme of an angel , it is but a leaden angel : so i say , take a carnal man , an unregenerate man , he is a carnal man , whilst he professeth no religion ; suppose him then , to professe himselfe a protestant at large , he is but a carnall protestant ; suppose him next , to joyne himselfe into some church order , let him joyne with those that are called of the presbyterian way , he is a carnall presbyterian . take him off from that , put him into the congregationall way , what is he then ? a carnal congregational man ; joyne him next if you wil , to those , who deny our baptisme , he is then but a carnal anabaptist , he is stil a carnal , an ungodly man , belonging to the corporation of satan , whatsoever his out-side be ; and know ye all for certain , that no bastard , no gibeonite , no hypocrite , no man unconverted , what gifts soever he may have , what reputation soever he may have amongst men , he is no member of the church of christ , unlesse the spirit of christ be in him . i say therefore againe , beare not your selves too much upon your visible church-standing , as too many doe ; beleeve it , it s an easie thing for the children of the world to put on an outward forme of church-communion : but o! how hard is it to become a new creature , to resigne up it selfe wholly to jesus christ , and the guidance of his holy spirit ? and i presse this the more upon this account also , viz. were this well understood ; it would satisfie , and cure the mistake of many , who thinke , that there are the same rules to direct us , with whom we must exercise our external communion , as there is to judge with whom jesus christ exercises his communion ; no , no ; we may exercise outward acts of communion , by the appointment of god , with those unto whom jesus christ never communicates himselfe , nor his spirit . thirdly , one instruction more , which i doe but name from all this , that the church of christ is but one body : it followes plainly , that therefore among all the great multitudes of the members of the church , they are the honourablest , and noblest members , who are most useful for the common good of the church , as it is in a natural body , the liver that makes bloud for all the body ; the heart , that makes spirits for all the body ; the stomach , that digests meat for all the body ; and the eye , which sees for the whole body , &c. these are counted the noblest , and excellentest : so among all christians , the man , or men , who are most useful , best fitted for use , and laid out for use , these wil one day be found , and acknowledged the honourablest members of the church of christ , what esteeme soever the world hath of them . but the maine use , which i purpose , and which indeed we most need , is to shew what duties doe arise from this unity of the saints in one body , and they are two , which the apostle paul layes downe , in the first of the corinthians , the twelfth chap. vers. 25. when he had shewed , how the lord had framed all his people into one body , he then tels us , to what end and purpose all this was done , viz. first , that there should be no schisme in the body . secondly , that therefore all the members ought to have the like care one of another . the first of these i purpose with the lords assistance to speake somewhat to at this time , because all the church , the saints , the people of god in all the world are but one body , therefore rents , and divisions are most unnaturall , and destructive to it . i hope you wil all judge it a necessary and seasonable theam , it being almost our epidemical disease , we being rent and torne into multitudes of sects and divisions , which this doctrine of the unity of the church of christ doth utterly condemn , and therefore though i know it is an unpleasing subject , and possibly many may give me small thanks for it , yet truly i durst not ( being called to this place ) but cast in my mite towards the healing of this wofull distemper ; and three things i shall endeavour to cleare about it : first , what schisme is , and what is the nature of it : secondly , the greatnesse of it , what a horrible sin it is : and thirdly , and principally , i will labour to shew you , who they are , that are guilty of it . for the first , what it is , it s usually defined to be a rash or unjust separation in matters of religion , but i would rather describe it to be a renting , violating , dissolving , or breaking of that unity , which ought to be amongst christians , or amongst all the saints of christ . and this rending or breaking of this union properly lyes in two things ; one is inward , and that is dissolving or breaking the band , or bands , which the lord hath given to tye them all together , which band on our part ( as you have heard before ) is the grace of love , and therefore the breaking off of love among christians , whether it be from all the church , or from a particular church , yea , or from a particular man ; i say , the dissolving or breaking of this spirituall band , hath in it the very intrinsecall nature of the sinne of schisme , the lord having appointed that grace to be the band to tye his people together ; but because the inward band is invisible , and therefore not easie to judge of , therefore there is a second thing in schism , and that is , a denying , or with-drawing from the exercise of those things , which christ hath given , as the symboles or pledges of love amongst his people , as conversing together , praying together , hearing together , conferring together , receiving sacraments , and the like together ; the with-drawing from these , or the denying of these , otherwise then jesus christ directs in his word . these things are visible , and therefore divines use to appropriate the name of schism to such with-drawings , or denyings , which indeed are but the fruites of the other : for the dissolving of the band of love , is the root of the disease , and the denying of the expressions , and exercise of love are the bitter fruits growing from that evill root ; so then , he , or they , who ever they are , that do deny to exercise , or with-draw from the exercise of those things , which jesus christ hath made to bee both duties , and pledges of love among his people , are truly and properly guilty of the sin of schism ; the nature of this sin of schism lying properly in this ▪ that it is against christian love ; and hereby also you may learne the difference between heresie and schisme ; heresie is a false opinion , which destroyes faith , but schisme is either an opinion , or practice against charity . the first of them , which is against faith , tends to rend off from christ the head . the second , which is against love , tends to the rending off from the body ; this for the nature of it . in the next place , let us consider the greatnesse of this sin , and the rather , because in truth , the name and charge is grown so common amongst us , ( as formerly the name of puritan was ) that many make no account of it , whether they be charged justly , or unjustly with it ; but who ever considers of it , according to the sense of the scripture , wil find that the sin of schisme is a most hainous sin ; the greatness of it not easily set forth in words , whether you consider it in the nature of it , or the effects of it . in 1 the nature of it ; its contrary to one of the highest ends of christs great undertaking , which is , that all his people should bee one , he dyed to that end , to make them one with himselfe , and one with one another , he begged it of his father , that they should be one ; now this sinne tends to frustrate this great designe of jesus christ . and secondly , it is contrary to all the commandements of christ , for all the commands , which he hath given to his people for the ordering of their conversation , himselfe tels us , that the end of the commandement is love ; 2 if we consider the effects of it , they are most dreadful and mischievous : for first , it is wonderfully dishonourable to jesus christ ; for whereas he holds out to all the world , that his people are one house , one body , one city , which is at unity , compacted together , &c. this is a publick confutation of it , makes jerusalem appeare as a babel , a city of confusion , a kingdome divided , wherein is nothing but disorders , and tumults , and the like . and as it is dishonourable to christ , so it wonderfully hinders and destroyes the edification of the church , both the edification of them , who make the schisme , and the edification of them , from whom the rent is made , depriving them of that spiritual good they might , and should receive and supply from , and to one another ; for though iesus christ the head , be the only fountaine of our spiritual life , yet it is as true that christs usuall way of exercising , strengthning , increasing , and perfecting it , is in the fellowship of the body , that by what every joynt supplyes , the whole may be increased ; so that if we weigh it seriously , we must conclude , that as nothing within the bounds of the church more argues a conformity to the spirit of the gospel , then the study of unitie , peace , and concord , so few things more argue an opposition to christs worke , and his peoples good , then this spirit of division . but the third is the greatest question , who are guilty of it ? and before i enter upon this discovery , give me leave to premise this , that in our dayes it is in this point of schisme , as it was of old in the primitive church in the first point of heresie : what opinions the ancients would make odious , they would brand with the name of heresie , and thereby sometimes very truths of christ were condemned , as heresies ; so it is at this day in the point of schisme , the papists cry downe all , who professe christianity through the whole world as schismaticks , who joyn not with , and subject not unto the church of rome . the prelatical party usually account all schismaticks who are not under the church-government of bishops ; come among them who are for the presbytery , many of them call all schismaticks , who joyn in any other way : the congregational men , ( as they are called ) have the same esteeme of them who depart from them , and goe into another way : i premise this , only for this end , that you may hence conclude , that doubtlesse sometimes the name is given , where it should not be given . now let us returne to our question , who they are that are guilty ? answ. truly with sorrow i must reply , it is a hard thing to say in our sad dayes who is not guilty , as in common-wealths , where the bands and sinews of civil government are cut asunder , & no conjunction , or associating of a people into or under government ; politicians say , that in such times , every man is at war with every man , every man is an enemy to every man ; so the lord for our sinnes hath poured this evil upon us , that we lye in confusion , almost every man is divided from every man , and so deep hath the malady taken root , that many are in love with it , and like their very divisions ; and as it is in popular tumults no man will heare any man , but still the confused noyse goes on ; so in truth is it with us , we are not willing to heare of agreement , he is almost an enemy , who would labour a pacification , or reconciliation . the lord have mercy upon us , our divisions are very great and sad ; but as a generall declaiming against sin , never converted a man from sin , untill he bee convinced that himself be guilty of this or that sin ; so my declaiming against schisme in generall wil not heal it , until i discover more particularly , who they are that are guilty of it . and to this i answer first negatively , all departure , separation , and denying to joyn in ordinances from some such , as call themselves christians , is not schisme ; the israelites separation from jeroboams calves was no schisme , if the faith of a people be heretical , or their worship be idolatrous : the lord bids his servants come out from such a people . i adde further , that although the faith of a church be sound , and the worship pure for the substance , yet if that church , or company , wil presse some such things , which others cannot practise without sin , and which unlesse they will practice ( though against their consciences ) they must be under intollerable persecution , as losse of state , life , &c. or spirituall anathematisme , unjust excommunications , or the like , to with-draw from such a people ( provided that still they will retaine those truths which are held by that persecuting church , and be ready to perform what christian duty of love lyes in their power towards them ) this with-drawing is no schism , it is no more then christ and his disciples did to the church of jerusalem , and no more then the lord hath bid his people do , when they are persecuted in one place , to with-draw and flye to another . 2 i answer positively , they who are guilty of the sin of schisme may be reduced under two heads : some are guilty of schisme from their principles of judgement ; their principles of judgement carry them to the practice of that which is a rending of the church . others , though their principles of judgement be right , yet are schismaticall , through principles of a corrupt heart and spirit ; i shall speake to both these , but principally to the first sort . first , all those whose erroneous judgements make them schismaticall ( as i conceive ) may all be brought to these foure . first , independency properly so called , is one of the highest principles of schisme , all such christians , whether they be single persons or associated bodies , yea , though all the christians in a nation , associated into a body , doe looke upon themselves as absolute , and independent from the rest of the church of christ , with whom the rest of the church of christ hath nothing to doe ; this i say , is one of the highest principles of schisme in the world : but doe not mistake me , i know there are some called , and branded with the name of independency , who professe they abhor both the name and thing , i meane such , as conceive that a particular church hath all power in it selfe , and that no other assembly can authoritatively call them to an account , so as to dissolve their sentences , or excommunicate them , because they conceive , that the government of the church is not placed in synods , or in any other assembly , then that of a particular congregation ; yet readily acknowledge that themselves are but part of the church , and ought to be countable to the church of christ for their wayes , and that , if upon brotherly counsel given by other churches , they reforme not , they may and ought to with-draw from all christian communion with them : whether their way of being countable be right or no i dispute not , only i say , this is not the independency here intended ; but i meane any man , or company of men , who looke upon themselves , as an intire civil state , or common-wealth lookes upon it selfe , how small soever it be ( as in italy , there are some such , which containe not above one city or two ) yet they count all the world hath nothing to do with them , nor are they to be countable to any other state , no not to the whole world , any further then their owne interest carries them , either for their owne safety , or as they make use of them ; this is true state independency ; so is it here when any persons , or company of christians looke upon themselves , as totum quid seorsum , as men by themselves , and in their intentions , carry not themselves as parts of the great common-wealth , accounting it a thing little or nothing materiall , so they professe the name , and faith of christ , and serve him , whether they doe it in the communion of the catholick church , or out of it , as if they were not persons contained within the whole , or part of the same common-wealth , this , i say , is high and deep schism ; the very nature of christs church , being one body , requires , that whatsoever any , whether persons or churches do in matters of religion , teaching , or being taught , praying , fasting , almes-giving , in word , and sacraments , yea , in beleeving , loving , hoping , &c. should all be done intentionally with relation to , and communion with the whole church of christ ; this first principle lies deep rooted , many live by it , though few wil own it . 2 others are deeply schismatical from principles of judgement , who are so farre in love with their own constitution , or way of association into church-order , that they condemne all the other assemblies throughout the world , as no churches of christ , because they be not modelled and moulded according to the plat-form of their own particular church-order , and association . i doe not deny , but it is possible that some of gods people may have some such great mistakes lye upon them , that they cannot possibly joyne in all christian ordinances with any congregation in the world : as the converted christian jewes , while they were under that apprehension that no man ought to be owned , but he that was circumcised ; i say , as long as that errour possest them , they could never joyn in all ordinances with the rest of the gentiles ; and how farre the rest of the people of god should beare with such , and still own them as christs servants , is a thing worth the studying , but certainly the principle it selfe is most destructive to the unity of the church . to refraine fellowship and communion with such churches , or companies , who professe christ their lord , whose faith is sound , whose worship is gospel-worship , whose lives are holy , unlesse they will come into that very particular way of church order , which they have pitched upon , is a dreadfull renting of the church of christ to peeces ; for if all christs people in the world are one body , and all thereby bound to have communion one with another , then certainly that principle , which necessitates men to cast off ( it may be ) nine hundred ninety nine parts of a thousand , must needs be dangerous , and schismatical ; of this none are so guilty , as the church of rome , who circumscribe the church of christ within the precinct of the roman jurisdiction , and cast off all christians , and all churches in the east , west , north , and south , yea , cast them off from all hope of salvation , who subject not themselves to their way . 2. nor can our rigid separatists bee any way excused , who censure and condemne all other churches , whatever their faith , worship , and conversation be , meerly because they are not gathered into church-order , according to their own patternes . this so strict bounding of our christian communion by outward formes , i humbly conceive hath been a great , and almost generall fault among the churches of europe ever since the reformation : in some churches , the large forme of the confession of their faith is made the shibboleth ; without owning , and subscribing to this , without abating of a tittle , no communion to be injoyed ; in other churches , without conforming to their formes of prayers , rites , and ceremonies in administration of the sacraments , no communion to be injoyed , in others without submitting to their forme of church-government , no communion ; and with these , of whom i now speake , without submitting to their manner and forme of gathering into church-fellowship , none to be owned , or acknowledged to be churches of christ ▪ but alas ! how little is to be found in scripture to bound our fellowship and communion of saints by any of these things ? in the scripture , churches are cryed up or downe , commended and blamed , according as their fundamentall faith was sound , and their lives holy ▪ and i doubt not but one day , we shall all judge those churches the best , whose substantial faith is soundest , and lives most holy , whether their first manner of gathering were every way regular or not . suppose that in an army , the lawes of that army were , that none should be prest to serve , but all to come in as volunteers , that their officers should bee so and so chosen , and qualified ; now suppose in this army should be found some souldiers , who at first were forced in , or officers , who came corruptly by their places ; suppose whole troops or companies of these , who yet being in , prove as good souldiers , as faithful , skilfull valiant for the cause , as any other , it may be , beyond any others , think you these would not be owned by the army , when they should be found such ? or , suppose in marriage , at the first the parties marry , while not of years of discretion , or to please parents , or the like , yet afterward come to love , and live in their marriage-relation according to the word , thinke wee these shall not be owned as husband and wife ? so is the case here : let mee for present suppose these men , or churches , to whom i speak , to be at their fi●st gath●ring according to the purest patterne ; and let mee also suppose another company irregularly joyned , it may be forced in ▪ and that also whilst they are ignorant , prophane , &c. and that their minister also was put upon them ; now if the lord please to worke upon those effectually , so that minister and people grow sound in the faith , holy in their lives , pure in their worship , zealous for the truth ; when possibly they who boast of their first joyning , are grown like sardis , to have a name to be alive , and yet are dead , &c. shal we thinke the lord jesus wil not owne the other before themselves ? yes doubtlesse , and so should all his people ; give me leave to adde one thing more ; that the notion of making the first gathering of people into church-fellowship , to be the rule to direct us with whom we may joyne , or not joyne ; this i say , may make us refuse some churches , upon whom are apparently seen the scripture characters of a golden candlestick , and imbrace communion with others , only upon a humane testimony or report ; for in that church above mentioned , i may see a visible profession of soundnesse in faith , and holinesse there ; in the other , men only tell me , the first were not orderly gathered , and the others were ; to conclude this branch , this principle of renouncing all churches for want of a supposed orderly gathering , or for want of some such desirable perfection , which themselves injoy , is so dangerous and schismatical , that i feare not to say ▪ that it is more lawful to have a church-standing in the corruptest church in the world , where salvation and life may be obtained , by the doctrine held out , and the way profest in that church , though there should be very many frailties , and corruptions amongst them , then with that company , how holy soever it seemes to be , that wil necessitate such as joyne with them , to renounce communion with all the rest of the body of jesus christ upon earth . thirdly , another principle of schism , and which i conceive to be of larger , and of farre greater extent , and may make a fairer plea for it selfe , then yet any named , is , that which shuts up many servants of christ , that they cannot joyne , nor afford christian communion unto others for some particular errours found in their profession of faith , or some frailties found in their conversation . i say , that principle which makes the servants of christ deny communion to them , to whom christ wil not deny communion , to interdict communion with them , with whom christ doth not interdict communion , is a renting principle . conceive my meaning in a plaine comparison . suppose in a corporation , there were some rules given by their charter and founder , concerning their infranchizement , that whosoever is so , and so qualified , shal be a free-man ; if that corporation , or any number shal deny freedome to any so qualified , or shal disfranchise any for any offence , for wch the charter whereby they all stand , doth not warrant them , they are guilty of rending their charter , and they usurpe a power not given them by their founder ; so is it in the church , let me give a few instances ; take the churches in the apostles time , some of them did think it utterly unlawful to eat any meat that had been offered to an idol , some did think all days were alike , some thought that it was utterly unlawful to eat any thing , but herbes , &c. suppose now that the number of those , who held these opinions , should have gone to the rest of the church , and said , you are too lax in your principles unlesse you will renounce that carnall , ungodly liberty , which you take , to eate in idols temples , or to eate meat that hath been offered to an idol , &c. we professe we must renounce communion with you , they had been schismaticks in doing so . if on the other side the church had called them , and said , you by your strict opinions cut short the liberty christ hath purchased for us by his bloud , unlesse you lay aside these conceits of yours , we cast you out , then the schisme had laine on their part ; because the charter of christianity hath provided , that for these things the people of god should not rent one from another , but bear one with another , that thereby they might heale one another . come a little nearer our own times , take the reformed churches , as now they stand , all the churches of france and geneva , though they be sound in their faith , yet generally they are against the divine institution of the lords day . goe to helvetia amongst the switzers , generally the churches there are against all divine-right of any church-government , and require nothing but the help of the magistrate to keep their people in order . go from them , if you wil among the lutherans , among them are many ( as we judge ) dangerous opinions , the arminian points , and besides them , consubstantiation , and the ubiquity of christs body , and the like . the like might be said in many particulars of the swedes and danes ; all these churches being sound in the fundamentals , and owned by christ , ought also to own one another ; there are indeed some doctrines , wherein if men or churches be not sound , the lord christ wil have nothing to do with them , or if a churches worship be idolatrous , the lord christ wil not hold communion with them , but there are some errours in doctrines , and corruptions in conversation , for which ( though christ like them not ) he doth not reject them ; apply this to our purpose . at this day the socinians deny the deity of the lord jesus christ , the deity of the holy ghost , the trinity of persons , they deny that jesus christ hath merited , or satisfied for his people , these doctrines overthrow our christianity , and we count the holders of these to have nothing with christians in common , but only the name , therefore we renounce them . the papists also , besides some fundamentall errours , as justification by the merit of our owne workes , &c. are most abominably idolatrous in their worship , and the lord therefore bids us come out from them ; but take all the rest of the churches of christ in europe , and i humbly conceive that we ought , and must owne them to be churches of christ ; and therefore when the calvinists , and the lutherans had had many disputes , to see if they could fetch off one another from their principles , and could not do it , the calvinists even the holiest , and learnedst of them , such as calvin , beza , martyr , zanchy , vrsin , pareus , have offered to owne them as brethren , as churches of christ , and would have been willing to heare them , to receive sacraments with them : the rigid lutherans refused it , and cry out , from communion with the calvinists , good lord deliver us : now say i , the schisme was on the lutherans part : if the lutherans had offered it , and the calvinists had rejected , the schisme had laine on the calvinists part . bring it yet nearer , many of these opinions are got in among us , especially about free-will , infant-baptisme , formes of church-government , &c. and we should not refuse communion with any of them ( supposing their lives unblameable . ) if they will hold communion with us ; i say , if they will , for ordinarily erroneous persons are proud , and must have all mens sheaves bow down to theirs , and will close only with teachers and companies according to their owne lusts , but if we in a spirit of christian love would have peace , and they refuse it , then both the errour and schisme lyeth at their doore . but against all this , it may be , and is objected : what a speckled bird would you make a particular church ? suppose the church you should be an officer unto , should be such a medly , of some holding the morality of the lords day , some denying it , some for infant-baptisme , some condemning it , some like the presbyterian-government , others are for the episcopal , others like a congregational better then either of them ; some would have their children baptised , others are utterly against it , some of them calvinists , some lutherans , to have a church made up of all these , would not this be a reproach to you to be a pastor to such a flock ? to which i answer ; what reproach would it be to me to be pastor of such a church ▪ as jesus christ is a head of ? if the church of christ , wherein his spirit rules , to whom he is a head , and which shal be saved , be made up of all these , what reproach ( if prejudice did not blinde mens eyes ) could it be to any of us , to have such members to be members of our congregations ? but doe you then intend a toleration of all these opinions ? would you have lutherans , and anti-sabbatarians , anabaptists , and others tolerated among us ? i answer first , what the magistrates office is about toleration , or non-toleration , i have nothing to doe to meddle with at this time ; my doctrine confines me to speake only of church forbearance , and upon that account . i answer , if by toleration , you meane an approbation of these , god forbid , we must approve of no errour , we should all seeke to make one another imbrace every truth of christ ; but if by toleration you meane a not cutting them off , unlesse they lay downe their errours and renounce them , that indeed i plead for , we should hold christian communion with them for christ thus beares with them , and will have us beare one with another ; and as it is in our naturall body , if a man have an ulcer in his hand or his leg if ordinary medicines wil not cure it , he wil wait till the strength of nature work out the humour , or till by the providence of god , he can light of some more happy medicines , then yet have been propounded , but he will not cut his hand or his leg off , so long as it may be any wayes usefull to him ; so is the case here . thirdly , some will yet object , indeed if you meane to bear with them for a while , till the truth hath been set before them , that they have all meanes of conviction , it wil be granted ; but suppose all paines have been taken , the truth hath been propounded , they have been reasoned with , and they still hold the same , then they may be judged obstinate and self-condemned . i answer plainly , faith , as it is the imbracing of any particular truth is as well the gift of gods spirit , as that faith whereby we receive christ for our saviour , no wisdome , or rhethoricke of man can ever make a man receive the faith of any one doctrine of christianity , till gods spirit inable him , and it is a far easier matter to non-plus a man in disputing , then it is to clear his understanding , and inable him to receive a truth ; and when such persons do appeal to the searcher of hearts , that it is meer want of light which hinders them from being of one minde , our christian love ( which ever judgeth the best ) should rest satisfied , especially when their lives are unblameable , we must not take upon us to be lords of their faith ; and therefore after many disputes and conferences between the dissenting churches in germany , when they were not able to dispute one another out of their principles ( as i before noted ) the calvinists propounded to hold an amicable christian communion one with another ; and if in a fair debating way they could afterward satisfie one another , well and good , in the meane time they would wait , till christ would give more light : and upon this account , the calvinists and lutherans in polonia doe at this day live in concord , both of them retaining their opinions . and in truth , we all professe to doe the same toward them ; for i hardly know any amongst us , but confesse the helvetians , lutherans , &c. are true churches , notwithstanding their errours : now ( say i ) shal a company associated in such , and such opinions , bee counted a true church ? and shal not a particular man , who holds the same points , be counted a true visible member ? or shal we hold communion with them in germany , and shal we deny it to our brethren in england ? god forbid , that the exercise of our christian charity , and communion should vary , according as regions vary . if whole churches be owned , because of their faith and holinesse of life ( notwithstanding their errours ) to be true visible churches , then one man that hath those errours , may goe for a true visible christian , because of his faith and holinesse . and in truth they who are the brethren of our elder brother , are our brethren , wil we , nil we , and we shal repent , if we use them not as brethren . yet againe , it wil be said , but paul did wish they were all cut off that troubled the galatians . i answer ; but mark who they were , they were such who brought such a doctrin that he profest , if they imbraced it , christ would profit them nothing ; they , who would set up a new christ , a new way of salvation , to seek justification by their own works , he prayed they might be cut off , but he never wished it for errours of a lower nature . but lastly , some may yet demand , and say , what if they who hold such opinions , joyn in communion with you , and in your communion make it their worke and practise ; ( for errour is very pragmatical ) to draw all the rest of your company into their errors , and labour to infect all ; yea , to put all into flames of division and confusion , unlesse they can prevaile . shall we indure to see our brethren , and our people before our eyes drawne into errors , although those errors , it may be , are not fundamentall ? i answer ; first , i know no great hurt for men to be permitted modestly , and humbly to debate among their brethren the things wherein they differ ; but , secondly , i answer ; if men , who hold differing opinions in these lesser points , can neither be content to follow pauls counsel , to have their faith , in these , to themselves before god , nor modestly propound their arguments , and grounds , and so be quiet , but must make it their work to draw ( it may be ) weak ones , into doubtful disputations , and thereby take them off from the study and prosecution of more weighty things ; i can bee no advocate for such people , if they judge the spreading of their opinions to be such a duty , that they take themselves bound in conscience , to do all that is possible , to draw all others in to them ; i know no remedy , but such people must be contented to with-draw , and joyne with such churches , where their opinions are received ; for it cannot be conjectured that in any society , of any nature , men will be quietly tolerated , who shall professedly be boutefues , and kindle-fires , to disturbe their peace , and alwayes putting them into flames . suppose a man were of erastus his opinion , that there is no church-government by christs appointment , and yet withall should joyne in a congregationall , or presbyterian way , and they also willing to joyne in church-fellowship with him , as knowing his errour not to be fundamentall , if this man will now make it his worke to draw them off , from what they beleeve to be christs ordinance , and their duty , that they must either all yeeld to him or enjoy no quiet , this i say will prove intolerable ; thus also it is in civil associations . suppose in any corporation , where a court of aldermen , or common-counsell should bee judges , if the major part judge any cause before them , and the residue , who judge otherwise , wil not be content to sit downe , but be alwayes quarrelling , and calumniating the rest , charging them to be erroneous , or unrighteous judges , such unquiet and turbulent carriage over-throws all , and is not compatible with humane society . beloved , i beseech you pardon me , that i have been so long upon this third branch , for i confesse it is deeply settled upon my spirit , that were this rule received , it would have a great influence upon the healing of our divisions ; i know indeed , that many learned and holy men think otherwise , and doe conceive , that their zeale for christs truth must not suffer them thus far to tolerate them , who hold errors derogatory to the truth of christ ; but i humbly conceive that zeale for christs truth should never use other meanes to preserve christs truth , then christ himselfe hath appointed ; zeale to preserve justice , and righteousnesse , and to punish disorders in a common-wealth is very commendable , but yet that zeale would not be commendable in a magistrate , who should hang a man for such a fault , for which the law hath only appointed the house of correction , or whipping-post . let us confine our selves to christs rules , and then let our zeale burn , as hot as may be . fourthly , there is yet one sort more , and they are such , whose principles carry them to separate from particular churches for light causes ; suppose some defects , or some miscarriages in their church-government , it may be , some too great connivence at unworthy or scandalous persons , or it may be some defects or miscarriages in their publick administrations . i say , the renting off , and departing from particular churches for such causes , as these , wil be found to be but schism , to separate from churches , from which christ doth not separate , is schismatical ; now it is cleare in the scripture , christ jesus owneth churches , who are defective in many things , and if , as i said before , churches should bear with particular persons in their errors , certainly particular persons should bear with churches ; and therefore when a churches faith is sound for the substance , and their worship gospel-worship , though their government be not perfect , and other defects found among them , we must not separate ; and separation from them is the more unjust , if that church bee seeking for light , and willing to be informed ; i grant , there may bee slitting from one church to another , for greater edification , which is without condemning that church , they slit from : but separation from a true church for want of some desirable perfection , is a fruit of this bitter root of schisme , because it rents where christ rents not ; for if we looke into the scripture , we shal find there were churches , who had many errours in faith , others disorderly in their worship , others had many among them loose in their conversations , but not one word of the holy ghosts counselling the lords people to with-draw from them , or to go and gather into a body by themselves ; they are often called upon to do what they can , to heale them , but not one word of separating from them , or with-drawing from them ; indeed we sometimes read of some , who separated themselves , but we may also read in the same places , what sad brands the spirit of god gives them ; and should it bee lawful for every errour , and every miscarriage , or for the want of some desirable perfection thus to rend off , we must rend , and rend , and rend , for ought i know , to the end of the world , and the union and communion of christs people would come almost to nothing ; whereas he would have all his throughout the world , as they injoy communion with himselfe , so to injoy ( as their occasion and need requires ) communion with all his saints ; now such limitations and restrictions , as these are , make such a communion impossible ; i am veri●y perswaded , that were the union and communion of the people of christ rightly knowne , there is no saint in any part of the world , but where ever he comes , might demand upon the profession of his faith , and his voluntary subjection to the gospel , his right in the ordinances , hear the word with them , pray with them , receive the sacrament with them ; i say onely upon that ticket , that hee professeth that faith , which is the common faith of gods people , and while hee is with them , walkes according to the gospel rule ; now where mens principles doe shut them up , after the manner i have been treating of , these things are not practicable . i shut up all this discourse , concerning all these , who are schismatical through erroneous judgements , with this briefe corollary ; the communion of saints one with another is not only a priviledge , but a duty injoyned by christ , he hath not left us at liberty to chuse with whom we wil hold communion , and to refuse whom we lift , no ; as ever wee wil appear before him with comfort , wee must hold communion with those , who professe his name , and labour to keep with them all , the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . now , as these are schismatical from erroneous judgements , so there are others from principles of a corrupt heart , i shall only name them , and indeed naming them is sufficient to convince them , for no man dares take upon him to justifie them , yet named they must be , for they are as mischevious as the others . first , therefore all selfe-lovers , and selfe-seekers , with whom all others in their affections and spirits are regarded , onely as they can make use of them ; we know that if the members of the body were thus affected , the whole body would soon perish . private-wealths-men , are never good commonwealths-men ; paul exhorted the saints not to looke upon our owne things , but every man on the things of others , else it is impossible , but we must divide from them , as our private interest leads us : this self-seeking ruined and overthrew carthage , and the other , of seeking the publick-weale , built up rome , and so is it in our great , and spiritual common-wealth . secondly , all proud , insolent , arrogant , high-minded men , who must have rule , and beare sway where ever they come , or who use to despise and contemn others , i have no need of thee , full of themselves , and sleighting of others : this spirit of pride is a cursed root bringing forth heresie , schisme , contention , and every evil work . the first rent which ever was in gods family , was the pride of the angels , and ever since it hath born the like fruit ; examples are innumerable , cain , esau , corah , dathan &c. thirdly , all quarrelsome , railing , froward spirits , who upon every dissent from them in any opinion , or in matters of conversation , fall into railing language , branding others with odious terms , seeking to make them infamous and hateful : railing never cures errour , or infirmity , but keeps division open , and makes the breach wider ; truth and love joyned together may work great things , but truth and bitternesse can do little . fourthly , and so are all busie-bodies , who must have an oare in every mans boat , who cannot be content to keep within their owne calling , but as the apostle expresseth their nature in this text , are wise , or thinke more highly of themselves then they ought to think ; all these polypragmatical spirits , which delight to be bishops in all mens diocesses , are dangerous persons , nothing more divides or rends the body , then when the members keepe not to their owne worke . and fiftly , all factious people , who , where ever they come wil be making parties , ( though it may be ) they draw them not into a new church , yet divide into several parties , some for pauls , and some for apollos , and some for another , and all that is but to make themselves seem some body , and serve their own bellies . paul often complains of such kind of men , these carnal men made the schisme in corinth , of these he admonishes the romans , mark them , who cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine , which you have learned , and avoid them ; for they that are such , serve not our lord jesus christ , but their owne bellies . a very sad sentence . sixtly , and lastly , all they , whose spirits carry them to foment and cherrish such , as make rents and divisions , who not onely bear with such , as we would bear with a disease , so bear with , as yet to lance it , and seek to cure it , but delight in them as to make them the men of their counsel and confederacy , and thereby doe harden them in their way , expose themselves unto snares , and occasion others who are weak , to incline to these dividers , all these , some from one principle , others from another , help to rend and divide that body , which christ would have preserved in unity . i have thus far , according to my weaknesse , discovered to you the true causes , and in part the instruments of our woful divisions , which have made the church of christ present it selfe such a rueful spectacle , as it is at this day : what remaines , but only these two things ? first , that we all lament this , and mourn for it . secondly , that we all labour to help to cure it . first , that we all lament it ; i confesse our divisions in opinions are very sad , but our divided affections are sadder : were our spirits united , the spirit of love would have such a power upon our hearts , that when we had once learned to follow the truth in love , truth and love would carry all before them : ah , that god would teach us to lay it to heart , and to mourne , that wee should be as so many ishmaels , our sword against every man , and every mans against us . beloved , we little consider how precious the peace of the church of christ ought to be , even more precious then our lives ; we little consider how dishonourable our divisions are to jesus christ , making his jerusalem appeare as babel , a disordered and confused heap , when he dyed to make us one , and prayed to his father that we might be one , we thus to expose his body to be a scorne and reproach , is very sad . we little consider how pleasing our divisions are to satan , who prevailes upon our hearts , while we thus furiously busie our heads ; nor how pleasing are they to our common enemies , who , no doubt do secretly foment them , that thereby they may destroy us ▪ and get the rule over us ; our divisions and sub-divisions are strong weapons in their hands against us . little doe wee lay to heart these things ; if wee did , our hearts would bleed in secret for them ; and i humbly beseech you , let these things be to us for a lamentation . and secondly , labour to heale them ; beloved , it must be done , christ wil have it done , he wil compel us to it , he wil beat us into one , or he wil beat us til we are none ; he wil not bear long , if we remaine as we are , and therefore let all gods people first pray earnestly for it , oh pray for the peace of jerusalem , intreate the prince of peace , and the spirit of peace to grant us peace , to heale our divisions , to raise up healing instruments , make it our supplication every day , that our lord , the good samaritan , would poure in oyle and wine , and bind up these our woful rents , he , and he alone can doe it . i read , that when the divisions in germany about matters of religion , were extream hot and fierce , the emperor charles the fifth made a decree , called the interim , that there should bee common and publick peace in germany , and none to make war upon other for the cause of religion , but that christian amity should be practised by all until a free and general councel should be called : oh pray to christ for such an interim , that we might not quarrel , but live in love , untill himselfe reveale such light , as wil make his people all of one minde ; charles made the decree , but could not give the heart : our lord can give the decree and the heart also . follow him with this suite . and secondly ; let us not onely pray , but let us labour to promote it , and let us to this end , examine our owne principles , and let us count no principle , no affection , no disposition of spirit worth the keeping , which wil not let us bee one with them , with whom christ is one , and let us beleeve , that while we are in this world , we shal all of us know in part , and but in part ; beleeve in part , and but in part ; let us never expect to finde in this life , all who agree in fundamental truths , to agree in all other truths ; and let us beleeve , that though every truth of christ be precious , and worthy to be contended for , yet every truth is not necessary to salvation , nor necessary to be found in all , with whom we ought to hold and exercise christian communion ; many meats , which are whole some , yet cannot be relished by all , with whom we may sit at the same table ; while we are here , we shal often see cause , to differ in our judgement about many precious truths , but wee shall never see cause to differ in affection from those whom jesus christ loveth . certainly , i may love , where christ loves ; and i may imbrace , where christ imbraceth ; and i may not interdict , where christ doth not interdict , and wee may , and ought to bee of one heart with them , with whom wee cannot be of one minde in all things ; the time is coming when we shal be of one minde . luther and calvin are of one mind in heaven , while their disciples wrangle on earth : at which day he will appeare with more comfort , who beares and forbeares with his weak and erring brethren , then he is like to do , that loves not his brother ; sure i am this is pauls counsel , who said , whereto we have attained , let us mind the same things , and if any be otherwise minded , the lord will reveale it to him in his due time . and therefore i conclude this use with that speech of the apostle , above all , put on love , that is the band of perfection , and let the peace of god rule in your hearts ; i meane that peace the lord jesus christ is the authour of , let that rule in your hearts ; the greeke word signifies , let it bee as the officer the greekes had in their solemne games , who determined and quieted all differences , in all strifes and contentions , to whom he gave the palm , that quieted all the rest ; so let the peace of god be such a brabeutes , let it rule in our hearts . and the spirit of god presseth it there upon this very ground , because we are called thereunto in one body . we are brethren , let us not strive , or if we do contend , let us contend who shal be most holy , who shal love most , who shal beare most one with another , till that blessed day come , when christs light shal shine so perfectly upon us , that wee shal be all of one minde , and one heart in all things . thus much for the first great duty , that saints are all one body , therefore there should be no schisme , no divisions among them . the second is , that all the members should have the like care one of another ; that is , they should not onely love one another , and study to bee at peace one with another , but they should all sympathize one with another , if one be honoured , all should rejoyce ; if one suffer , all the rest should mourn , yea , they should all account themselves but as stewards for the good of all , and expresse this in using all their talents for the good of the soules of all , and the bodyes of all , each within the compasse of his owne calling , and especially in the particular church , where the lord hath set them ; these things are of great concernment , and for daily use , and therefore most worth the handling ; but i suspect i have already presumed upon your patience . consider what i have said , and the lord give you understanding in all things . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a52054e-320 introduction shewing the coherence and scope of the text . ephes. 4. 16. the generall doctrine propounded . the church is christs body . and explained and proved out of scripture 1 cor. 12. 12 ▪ &c. vers. 7. vers. 12. vers. 13. eph. 4. from 1● . to 16. opened and explained . wherein the comparison stands between the church and a natural body the union of the saints one with another . 1 cor. 12. 15. 22 , 23 , 24. quest . 1. ephes. 4 4 , 5 , 6. opened . heb. 6. 18. iude 3. 1 cor. 8. 5. gal. 6. 16. titus 1. 1. 2 pet. 1. 2. quest . 3. what are the bands of this union ? answ first , the spirit of christ teaching and ruling them all . esai 11. 6 , 7 , 8. ezek , 11. 19 ezek. 36. 27 2 band , the grace of love . 1 cor. 12. 31 ▪ and cap. 13 col. 3. 14 ioh. 13 , 34 , 3● ▪ ephes. 4. 16 3 ▪ q. how is it then that the scripture speaks of many churches , if all are but one church answ. application . 1 instruction therefore this communion of saints is that brotherly good fellowship , prov. 1. 14. esa. 56 , 12. psal. 2. 2. 1 joh. 1. 3. 2 instruction . therefore none are true members of this church but regenerate men . 1 joh. 1. 3. 3 instruction . therefore the most usefull christians are the most noble members . 2 use for exhortation . 1 therefore there must be no schisme in the church , 1 cor. 12. 25. what schisme is . 2 the greatnesse of the sin of schisme . in the nature of it . eph. 1. 10. joh. 17. 21. ● tim. 1. 5 2 in the effects of it . eph. 4. 16. 3 who are guilty of it , who are guilty of the sin of schisme . answ. 1. in generall most christians this day are guilty of it . this opened more particularly . negatively . all separation is not schisme , such as are schismaticks , who separate from hereticks , or idolaters . or from persecutors . some are schismaticks from principles of an erroneous judgement , some from principles of a corrupt heart . schismaticks from corrupt judgement are independents properly so called . 2 all who renounce all other churches because not of their own manner of constituon . of which the papists are most guilty . 3. all who refuse communion with persons erring in points not fundamentall . rom. 14. 3 , 4 , 10 , &c. first objection against this third branch . answ. object . 2. answ. object . 3. answ. object . 4. gal. 5. 12. answ. gal. 5. 2. rom. 14. 22. 4 they are schismaticall who separate from true churches for light cause● . heb. 10. 25. jude 19. 2 some are schismaticall from principles of a corrupt heart . 1 as self-lovers and self-seekers . phil. 2. 4. plutarch . 2 proud and high-minded spirits . 3 quarrelsome and railing spirits . 4 busie-bodies . rom. 2. 3. 1 pet. 4. 15. 5 all factious spirits . 1 cor. 12. rom. 16. 17. 6 all who delight in the society of schismaticks . exhort . 1. to lament our divisions . ephes. 1. 10. iohn 17. 2● . exhort . 2. to endeavour to cure them . 1 pray for it . phil. 3. 15. col. 3. 14. 15. vse 2. the members : to have the like care one of another . four tracts by the ever memorable mr. john hales of eaton college. viz. i. of the sacrament of the lord's supper. ii. of the power of the keyes. iii. of schism and schismaticks. iv. missellanies. hales, john, 1584-1656. 1677 approx. 114 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 33 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a44394) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 38505) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1833:20 or 2392:5) four tracts by the ever memorable mr. john hales of eaton college. viz. i. of the sacrament of the lord's supper. ii. of the power of the keyes. iii. of schism and schismaticks. iv. missellanies. hales, john, 1584-1656. 64 p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year. 1677. reproductions of the original at the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng lord's supper -early works to 1800. schism -early works to 1800. 2005-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-01 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-03 jonathan blaney sampled and proofread 2006-03 jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion four tracts , by the ever memorable mr. john hales of eaton college . viz. i. of the sacrament of the lord's supper . ii. of the power of the keyes . iii. of schism and schismaticks . iv. missellanies . london : printed in the year . 1677. a tract on the sacrament of the lord's supper . kind sir , in perusal of your letters together with the schedule inclosed , no circumstance did so much move me as this , that so ordinary points as are discuss'd there , and that in a bare and ordinary manner , should amuse either your self or any man else , that pretends to ordinary knowledge in controversies in christian religion . for the points therein discuss'd are no other than the subject of every common pamphlet , and sufficiently known ( that i may so say ) in every barber's shop . yet because you require my opinion of matters there in question , i willingly afford it you , though i fear i shall more amuse you with telling you the truth , than the disputants there did , by abusing you with error . for the plain and necessary ( though perhaps unwelcome ) truth is , that in the greater part of the dispute , both parties much mistook themselves , and that fell out which is in the common proverb sc , whilst the one milks the ram , the other holds under the sieve , that you may see this truth with your eyes , i divide your whole dispute into two heads ; the one concerning the eucharist , the other concerning the churches mistaking it self about fundamentals . for the first it consisteth of two parts ; of a proposition , and of a reply : the proposition expresses ( at least he that made it intended it so to do , though he mistakes ) the doctrine of the reformed churches , concerning the presence of christ in the eucharist . the reply doth the like for the church of rome in the same argument . now that you may see how indifferently i walk , i will open the mistakes of both parties , that so the truth of the thing it self ( being unclouded of errors ) may the more clearly shine forth . the first mistake common to both is , that they ground themselves much upon the words of consecration , as they are called , and suppose , that upon the pronouncing of those words , something befalls that action , which otherwise would not ; and that without those words the action were lame . sir , i must confess my ignorance unto you . i find no ground for the necessity of this doing . our saviour instituting that holy ceremony , commands us to do what he did , but leaves us no precept of saying any words ; neither will it be made appear , that either the blessed apostles , or primitive christians had any such custom : nay the contrary will be made probably to appear out of some of the ancientest writings of the churches ceremonials . our saviour indeed used the word , but it was to express what his meaning was ; had he barely acted the thing , without expressing himself by some such form of words , we could never have known what it was he did . but what necessity as there now of so doing ? for when the congregation is met together , to the breaking of bread and prayer , and see bread and wine upon the communion-table , is there any man can doubt of the meaning of it , although the canon be not read ? it was the farther solemnizing , and beautifying that holy action which brought the canon in ; and not an opinion of adding any thing to the substance of the action . for that the words were used by our saviour to work any thing upon the bread and wine , can never out of scripture or reason be deduced ; and beyond these two , i have no ground for my religion , neither in substance nor in ceremony . the main foundation that upholds the necessity of this form of action now in use , is church-custom and church-error . now for that topick place of church-custom , it is generally too much abused : for whereas naturally the necessity of the thing ought to give warrant to the practice of the church , i know not by what device matters are turned about , and the customary practice of the church is alledged to prove the necessity of the thing ; as if things had received their original from the church-authority , and not as the truth is , from an higher hand . as for the church's error , on which i told you this form of action is founded , it consists in the uncautelous taking up an unsound ungrounded conclusion of the fathers , for a religious maxim. st. ambrose , i trow , was he that said it , and posterity hath too generally applauded it , accedat verbum ad elementum , & fiat sacramentum . by which they would perswade us , against all experience , that to make up a sacrament , there must be something said and something done ; whereas indeed to the perfection of a sacrament , or holy mystery ( for both these are one ) it is sufficient that one thing be done whereby another is signified , though nothing be said at all . when tarquinius was walking in his garden , a messenger came and asked him , what he would have done unto the town of gabii , then newly taken ? he answered nothing , but with his wand struck off the tops of the highest poppies ; and the messenger understanding his meaning , cut off the heads of the chief of the city . had this been done in sacris , it had been forthwith truly a sacrament , or holy mystery . cùm in omnibus scientiis voces significent res , hoc habet proprium theologia , quòd ipsae res significatae per voces etiam significent aliquid , saith aquinas ; and upon the second signification are all spiritual and mystical senses founded : so that in sacris , a mystery or sacrament is then acted , when one thing is done and another is signified , as it is in the holy communion , though nothing be said at all . the ancient sacrifices of the jews , whether weekly , monthly , or yearly , their passover , their sitting in booths , &c. these were all sacraments , yet we find not any sacred forms of words , used by the priests or people in the execution of them . to sum up that which we have to say in this point , the calling upon the words of consecration in the eucharist , is too weakly founded to be made argumentative ; for the action is perfect whether those words be used or forborn : and in truth to speak my opinion , i see no great harm could ensue , were they quite omitted . certainly thus much good would follow , that some part ( though not a little one ) of the superstition that adheres to that action , by reason of an ungrounded conceit of the necessity and force of the words in it , would forthwith pill off and fall away : i would not have you understand me so , as if i would prescribe for , or desire the disuse of the words ; only two things i would commend to you , first , that the use of the canon is a thing indifferent . and , secondly , that in this knack of making sacraments , christians have taken a greater liberty than they can well justify : first in forging sacraments , more than god ( for ought doth or can appear ) did ever intend : and secondly , in adding to the sacraments instituted of god many formalities , and ceremonial circumstances upon no warrant but their own ; which circumstances by long use , begat in the minds of men a conceit , that they were essential parts of that to which indeed they were but appendant ; and that only by the device of some who practised a power in the church more than was convenient . thus much for the first common mistake . the second is worse than it ; you see that both parties agree in the acknowledgement of the real presence of the body of christ in the eucharist , though they differ in the manner of his presence , and application of himself to the receiver ; though the protestant disputant seems to have gone a little beyond his leader : had he express'd himself in the point of bread and wine , what became of it , whether it remain'd in its proper nature yea or no , i could the better have fathom'd him : now these words of his , that the bread and wine after consecration are truly and really the body of christ , howsoever they are suppled and allayed ; with that clause , not after a carnal but after a spiritual manner , yet still remain too crude and raw , and betray the speaker for a lutheran at least , if not for a favourer of the church of rome ; for as for that phrase , of a spiritual manner , which seems to give season and moderation to his conclusion , it can yield him but small relief : for first , to say the flesh of christ is in the bread , but not after a carnal manner , is but the same nonsense , which the divines of rome put upon us on the like occasion , when telling us , that the blood of christ is really sacrificed , and shed in the sacrament , they add by way of gloss , that it is done incruentè , unbloodily ; by the like analogy they may tell us , if they please , that the body of christ is there incorporated unbodily , flesh not carnally may pass the press jointly the next edition of the book of bulls . again , in another respect , that clause , of a spiritual manner doth your protestant disputer but little service , if any at all ; for the catholick disputant contriving with himself how to seat the body of god in the eucharist , as may be most for his ease , tells us , that he is there as spirits and glorified bodies ( which st. paul calls spiritual ) are in the places they possess ; so then , the one tells you the body of christ is there really , but spiritually ; the other , that he is there really , but as a spirit in a place , and what now , i pray you , is the difference between them ? by the way , in the passage you may see what account to make of your catholick disputer . aristotle , and with him common sense , tells us thus much , that he that compares two bodies together , must know them both ; doth this gentleman know any thing concerning the site and locality of spirits , and bodies glorified ? if he doth , let him do us the courtesy as to shew us , at what price he purchased that degree of knowledge , that so we may try our credit , and see if we can buy it at the same rate ; tertius è coelo cecidit cato ? is he like a second paul , lately descended out of the third heavens , and there hath made us the discovery ? for by what other means he could attain to that knowledge , my dulness cannot suggest . but if he doth not know ( as indeed he neither doth nor can , for there is no means left to make discovery that way ) then with what congruity can he tell us , that the body of christ is in the bread , as spirits , and glorified bodies are in their places , if he know not what manner of location and site , spirits and glorified bodies have ? i shall not need to prompt your discretion thus far , as that you ought not to make dainties of such fruitless and desperate disputers ; who , as the apostle notes , thrust themselves into things they have not seen , and upon a false shew of knowledge , abuse easie hearers , and of things they know not , adventure to speak they know not what . to return then , and consider a little more of this second mistake common to both your disputants , i will deal as favourably as i can with your protestant disputer ; for though i think he mistakes himself ( for i know no protestant that teacheth , that the common bread , after the word spoken is really made the body of christ ) yet he might well take occasion thus to err out of some protestant writings : for generally the reformed divines do falsly report that holy action , whether you regard the essence or use thereof . for first , if in regard of the essence , some protestants , and that of chief note , stick not to say , that the words of consecration are not a meer trope , and from hence it must needs follow , that in some sense they must needs be taken literally , which is enough to plead authority for the gentleman's error . but that which they preach concerning a real presence and participation of christ's body in the sacrament ; they expound not by a supposal that the bread becomes god's body , but that togegether with the sacramental elements , there is conveyed into the soul of the worthy receiver , the very body and blood of god ; but after a secret , ineffable , and wonderfull manner . from hence , as i take it , have proceeded these crude speeches of the learned of the reformed parts , some dead some living , wherein they take upon them to assure the divines of rome , that we acknowledge a real presence as well as they ; but for the manner how , con , or trans , or sub , or in , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we play the secpticks , and determine not . this conceit , besides the falshood of it , is a meer novelty , neither is it to be found in the books of any of the ancients , till martin bucer rose . he out of an unseasonable bashfulness , and fear to seem to recede too far from the church of rome , taught to the purpose now related , concerning the doctrine of christ's presence in the sacrament ; and from him it descended into the writings of calvin and beza , whose authority have well-near spread it over the face of the reformed churches . this is an error which , as i said , touches the essence of that holy action ; but there are many now which touch the end and use of it , which are practised by the reformed parts ; for out of an extravagant fancy they have of it , they abuse it to many ends of which we may think the first instituter ( save that he was god , and knew all things ) never thought of : for we make it an arbitrator of civil businesses ; and imploy it in ending controversies ; and for confirmation of what we say or do , we commonly promise to take the sacrament upon it ; we teach , that it confirms our faith in christ , whereas indeed the receiving of it is a sign of faith confirmed , and men come to it to testifie that they do believe , not to procure that they may believe : for if a man doubt of the truth of christianity , think you that his scruples would be removed upon the receiving of the sacrament ? i would it were so ; we should not have so many doubting christians , who yet receive the sacrament oft enough : we teach it to be viaticum morientium , whereby we abuse many distressed consciences , and sick bodies , who seek for comfort there , and finding it not , conclude from thence ( i speak what i know ) some defect in their faith. the participation of the sacrament to sick and weak persons , what unseemly events hath it occasioned , the vomiting up of the elements anon , upon the receipt of them ; the resurging the wine into the cup , before the minister could remove his hand to the interruption of the action ? now all these mistakes and errors have risen upon some ungrounded and fond practices , crept long since ( god knows how ) into the church , and as yet not sufficiently purged out . i will be bold to inform you what it is , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the main fundamental fallacy , whence all these abuses have sprung . there hath been a fancy of long subsistance in the churches , that in the communion there is something given besides bread and wine , of which the numerality given , men have not yet agreed : some say it is the body of god into which the bread is transubstantiated ; some say it is the same body with which the bread is consubstantiated ; some ▪ that the bread remaining what it was , there passes with it to the soul the real body of god , in a secret unknown manner ; some that a further degree of faith is supplied us ; others , that some degree of god's grace , whatsoever it be , is exhibited , which otherwise would be wanting : all which variety of conceits must needs fall out , as having no other ground , but conjecture weakly founded . to settle you therefore in your judgment , both of the thing it self , and of the true use of it , i will commend to your consideration these few propositions . first , in the communion , there is nothing given but bread , and wine . secondly , the bread and wine are signs indeed , but not of any thing there exhibited , but of somewhat given long since , even of christ given for us upon the cross sixteen hundred years ago , and more . thirdly , jesus christ is eaten at the communion-table in no sense , neither spiritually , by virtue of any thing done there , nor really ; neither metaphorically , nor literally . indeed that which is eaten ( i mean the bread ) is called christ by a metaphor ; but it is eaten truly and properly . fourthly , the spiritual eating of christ is common to all places , as well as the lord's table . last of all , the uses and ends of the lord's supper can be no more than such as are mentioned in the scriptures , and they are but two . first , the commemoration of the death and passion of the son of god , specified by himself at the institution of the ceremony . secondly , to testify our union with christ , and communion one with another ; which end st. paul hath taught us . in these few conclusions the whole doctrine and use of the lord's supper is fully set down ; and whoso leadeth you beyond this , doth but abuse you . quicquid ultra quaeritur , non intelligitur . the proof of these propositions would require more than the limits of a letter will admit of ; and i see my self already to have exceeded these bounds . i will therefore pass away to consider the second part of your letter . in this second part , i would you had pleased to have done as in the first you did , that is , not only set down the proposition of the catholick , but some answer of the protestant , by which we might have discovered his judgment ; i might perchance have used the same liberty as i have done before , namely discovered the mistakes of both parties ; for i suspect that as there they did , so here they would have given me cause enough . now i content my self barely to speak to the question . the question is , whether the church may err in fundamentals ? by the church i will not trifle as your catholick doth , and mean only the protestant party , as he professeth he doth only the roman faction . but i shall understand all factions in christianity , all that entitle themselves to christ , wheresoever dispersed all the world over . first , i answer , that every christian may err that will : for if men might not err wilfully , then there could be no heresie ; heresie being nothing else but wilful error : for if we account mistakes , befallen us through humane frailties to be heresies then it will follow , that every man since the apostles time was an heretick ; for never yet was there any christian , the apostles only excepted , who did not in something concerning the christian faith mistake himself , either by addition or omission , or misinterpretation of something . an evident sign of this truth you may see in this ; by the providence of god , the writings of many learned christians from the spring of christianity , have been left unto posterity ; and amongst all those , scarcely any is to be found who is not confess'd on all hands to have mistaken some things , and those mistakes for the most part stand upon record by some who purposely observed them . neither let this ( i beseech you ) beget in you a conceit , as if i meant to disgrace those whose labours have been and are of infinite benefit in the church . for if aristotle , and aphrodiseus , and galen , and the rest of those excellent men whom god had indued with extraordinary portions of natural knowledge , have with all thankful and ingenuous men throughout all generations retained their credit entire , notwithstanding it is acknowledged that they have all of them in many things , swerved from the truth ; then , why should not christians express the same ingenuity to those who have laboured before us in the exposition of the christian faith , and highly esteem them for their works sake , their many infirmities notwithstanding ? you will say , that for private persons it is confess'd they may and daily do err ; but can christians err by whole shoals , by armies meeting for the defence of the truth in synods and councils , especially general , which are countenanced by the great fable of all the world , the bishop of rome ? i answer , to say that councils may not err , though private persons may , at first sight is a merry speech ; as if a man should say , that every single soldier indeed may run away , but a whole army cannot , especially having hannibal for their captain ; and since it is confess'd , that all single persons not only may , but do err , it will prove a very hard matter , to gather out of these a multitude , of whom being gathered together , we may be secured they cannot err . i must for mine own part confess , that councils , and synods not only may and have erred , but considering the means how they are managed , it were a great marvel if they did not err : for what men are they of whom those great meetings do consist ? are they the best , the most learned , the most vertuous , the most likely to walk uprightly ? no , the greatest , the most ambitious , and many times men , neither of judgment , nor learning ; such are they of whom these bodies do consist : and are these men in common equity likely to determine for truth ? qui ut in vita , sic in causis , spes quoque improbas alunt , as quintilian speaks . again , when such persons are thus met , their way to procede to conclusion , is not by weight of reason but by multitude of votes and suffrages ; as if it were a maxim in nature , that the greater part must needs be better ; whereas our common experience shews , that , nunquam it a benè agitur cum rebus humanis ut plures sint meliores . it was never heard in any profession , that conclusion of truth went , by plurality of voices , the christian profession only excepted ; and i have often mused how it comes to pass , that the way which in all other sciences is not able to warrant the poorest conclusion , should be thought sufficient to give authority to conclusions in divinity , the supreme empress of sciences . but i see what it is that is usually pleaded , and with your leave i will a little consider of it . if it be given out , that christian meetings have such an assistance of god , and his blessed spirit , that let their persons be what they will , they may assure themselves against all possibility of mistaking ; and this is that they say , which to this way of ending controversies , which in all other sciences is so contemptible , gives a determining to theolgical disputes of so great authority . and this musick of the spirit , it is so pleasing , that it has taken the reformed party too ; for with them likewise all things at lengh end in this spirit ; but with this difference , that those of rome confine the spirit to the bishops and counsels of rome , but the protestant enlargeth this working of the spirit , and makes it the director of private meditations . i should doubtless do great injury to the goodness of god , if i should deny the sufficient assistance of god to the whole world , to preserve them both from sin in their actions , and damnable errors in their opinions ; much more should i do it , if i denied it to the church of god ; but this assistance of god may very well be , and yet men may fall into sin and errors . st. paul preaching to the gentiles , tells them , that god was with them in so palpable a manner , that even by the groping they might have found him ; yet both he and we know what the gentiles did . christ hath promised his perpetual assistance to his church ; but hath he left any prophecy , that the church should perpetually adhere to him ? if any man think he hath , it is his part to inform us , where this prophecy is to be found . that matters may go well with men , two things must concur , the assistance of god to men , and the adherence of men to god ; if either of these be deficient , there will be a little good done : now the first of these is never deficient , but the second is very often ; so that the promise of christ's perpetual presence made unto the church , infers not at all any presumption of infabillity . as for that term of spirit , which is so much taken up ; to open the danger that lurks under it , we must a little distinguish upon the word . this term [ spirit of god , ] either it signifies the third person in the blessed trinity , or else the wonderful power of miracles , of tongues , of healing , &c. which was given to the apostles , and other of the primitive christians , at the first preaching of the gospel , but both these meanings are strangers to our purpose . the spirit of god , as it concerns the question here in hand , signifies either something within us , or something without us : without us , it signifies the written word , recorded in the books of the prophets , apostles , and evangelists , which are metonymically called the spirit because the holy ghost spake those things by their mouths when they lived , and now speaks us by their pens when they are dead . if you please to receive it , this alone is left as christ's vicar in his absence , to give us directions both in our actions and opinions ; he that tells you of another spirit in the church , to direct you in your way , may as well tell you a tale of a puck , or a walking spirit in the church-yard . but that this spirit speaking without us may be beneficial to us , oportet aliquid intus esse , there must be something within us which also we call the spirit ; and this is twofold : for either it signifies a secret illapse , or supernatural influence of god , upon the hearts of men , by which he is supposed inwardly , to incline , inform , and direct men in their ways , and wills , and to preserve them from sin and mistake ; or else it signifies that in us , which is opposed against the flesh , and which denominates us spiritual men , and by which we are said to walk according to the spirit ; that which st. paul means , when he tells us , the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh , ( rom. 7. ) so that we may not do what we list . now of these two , the former it is , which the church seems to appeal unto in determining controversies by way of counsel : but to this i have little to say . first , because i know not whether there be any such thing yea , or no. secondly , because experience shews , that the pretence of the spirit in this sense is very dangerous , as being next at hand to give countenance to imposture and abuse : which is a thing sufficiently seen , and acknowledged both by the papist and protestant party ; as it appears by this , that though both pretend unto it , yet both upbraid each other with the pretence of it . but the spirit in the second sense , is that i contend for ; and this is nothing but the reason illuminated by revelation out of the written word . for when the mind and spirit humbly conform and submit to the written will of god , then you are properly said to have the spirit of god , and to walk according to the spirit , not according to the flesh . this alone is that spirit which preserves us from straying from the truth : for he indeed that hath the spirit , errs not at all , or if he do , it is with as little hazard and danger as may be ; which is the highest point of infallibility , which either private persons or churches can arrive unto . yet would i not have you to conceive , that i deny that at this day the holy ghost communicates himself to any , in this secret and supernatural manner , as in foregoing times he had been wont to do ; indeed my own many uncleannesses are sufficient reasons to hinder that good spirit to participate himself unto me , after that manner . the holy ghost was pleased to come down like a dove ; veniunt ad candida tecta columbae , accipict nullas sordida turris aves . now it is no reason to conclude the holy ghost imparts himself in this manner to none , because he hath not done that favour unto me . but thus much will i say , that the benefit of that sacred influence is confined to those happy souls in whom it is , and cannot extend it self to the church in publick : and if any catholick except against you for saying so , warrant your self and me out of aquinas , whose words are these , innititur fidei natura revelationi apostolis & prophetis factae , qui canonicos libros scripserunt , non autem revelationi , siqua fuit , aliis doctoribus factae . it being granted then , that churches can err , it remains then , in the second place , to consider how far they may err ; i answer for churches as i did before for private persons , churches may err in fundamentals if they list , for they may be heretical ; for churches may be wicked , they may be idolaters , and why then not heretical ? is heresy a more dangerous thing than idolatry ? for whereas it is pleaded , that churches cannot fall into heresie , because of that promise of our saviour , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church , is but out of mistake of the meaning of that place ; and indeed i have often mused how so plain a place could so long and so generally be misconstrued : to secure you therefore , that you be not abused with these words hereafter , ( for they are often quoted to prove the church's infallibility ) i shall endeavour to give you the natural meaning of them , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the gates of hell , is an hebraism ; for in the hebrew expression , the gates of a thing signifies the thing it self , as the gates of sion , sion it self , and by the same proportion the gates of hell signifies hell it self : now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we english hell , as in no place of scripture it signifies heresie , so very frequently in scripture it signifies death , or rather the state of the dead , and indifferently aplied to good and bad : let us then take the word in that meaning , for what greater means can we have to warrant the signification of a scripture-word , than the general meaning of it in scripture ? so that when our saviour spake these words , he made no promise to the church of persevering in the truth , but to those that did persevere in the truth , he made a promise of victory against death and hell : and what he there says , sounds to no other purpose , but this , that those who shall continue his , although they dye , yet death shall not have the dominion over them ; but the time shall come , that the bands of death shall be broken ; and as christ is risen , so shall they that are his rise again to immortality : for any help therefore that this text affords , churches may err in fundamentals . but to speak the truth , i much wonder , not only how any churches , but how any private man , that is careful to know and follow the truth , can err in fundamentals : for since it is most certain , that the scripture contains at least the fundamental parts of christian faith , how is it possible , that any man , that is careful to study and believe the scripture , should be ignorant of any necessary part of his faith ? now whether the chucrh of rome err in fundamentals , yea or no ? to answer this , i must crave leave to use this distinction ; to err in fundamentals , is either to be ignorant of , or deny something to be fundamental , that is ; or to entertain something for fundamental , which is not . in the first sense , the church of rome , entertaining the scriptures as she doth , cannot possibly be ignorant of any principal part of christian faith ; all her error is , in entertaining in her self , and obtruding upon others , a multitude of things for fundamentals , which no way concern our faith at all : now how dangerous it is thus to do , except i know whether she did this willingly or wittingly , yea or no , is not easy to define : if willingly she doth it ; it is certainly high and damnable presumption , if ignorantly , i know not what mercies god hath in store for them that sin , not out of malicious wickedness . now concerning the merriment newly started ; i mean the requiring of a catalogue of fundamentals , i need no answer no more , but what abraham tells the rich man in hell , habent mosen & prophetas , they have moses , and the prophets , the apostles , and the evangelists , let them seek them there ; for if they find them not there , in vain shall they seek them in all the world besides . but yet come a little nearer to the particulars , if the church of rome would needs know what is fundamental , in our conceit , and what not ; the answer , as far as my self in person am concerned in the business , shall be no other than this ; let her observe what points they are , wherein we agree with her , and let her think , if she please , that we account of them as fundamentals , especially if they be in the scriptures ; and on the other hand , let her mark in what points we refuse communion with her , and let her assure her self , we esteem those as no fundamentals . if she desire a list and catalogue made of all those , she is at leisure enough , for ought i know , to do it her self . last of all , concerning the imputation of rebellion and schism against church-authority , with which your catholick disputant meant to affright you ; all that is but meerly powder without shot , and can never hurt you : for since it hath been sufficiently evidenced unto us , that the church of rome hath adulterated the truth of god , by mixing with it sundry inventions of her own ; it was the conscience of our duty to god , that made us to separate : for where the truth of god doth once suffer , there union is conspiracy , authority is but tyranny , and churches are but routs : and suppose we , that we mistook , and made our separation upon error , the church of rome being right in all her ways , though we think otherwise ; yet could not this much prejudice us : for it is schism upon wilfulness that brings danger with it , schism upon mistake , and schism upon just occasion , hath in it self little hurt , if any at all . sir , i return you more than i thought , or you expected ; yet less than the argument requir'd , if you shall favour me so much as carefully to read what i have carefully written , you shall find ( at least in those points you occasioned me to touch upon ) sufficient ground to plant your self strongly against all discourse of the romish corner-creepers , which they use for the seducing of unstable souls . be it much or little that i have done , i require no other reward than the continuance of your good affection to . your servant , whom you know . a tract concerning the power of the keys . and auricular confession . in opening the point concerning the doctrine of the keys of the kingdom of heaven , i will follow those lines , that tract , which your self hath been pleased to set me . yet first , ere i come to your particulars , i will discover , as far as generality will give me leave , what it is which we intend , when we use this phrase of speech . at the first appearance , it is plain , the form of words is not proper , but metaphorical . now some truth there is in that which you learnt in the books of your minority , from your aristotle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and indeed could we but once agree what it is which that metaphor doth intimate , the greatest part of the dispute were at an end . the natural way to discover this , is to see what the use of keys , properly taken , is ; and after that , what means they are , which in our endeavours to attain to the kingdom of heaven , have something proportionable to the use of keys : and this being once discovered , there can remain no question , what are the keys ? now nothing is more known , than that the only use of keys is to open and shut , to admit us unto , or exclude us from the possession of what we seek . now since the kingdom of heaven is compared to a house , from which all the sons of adam , by nature are excluded ; whatsoever then it is that gives us way , that removes all obstacles which hinder us from entrance of that house , that certainly must be understood by the name of keys . now all these means , or whatsoever else it is which doth further us towards the possessing our selves of eternal life , they were all laid down in the gospel of our lord jesus christ , committed by him fully and first of all to the dispensation of the blessed apostles , to be reported by them , or their means , all the world over . so that i think i may safely lay thus much for the first ground of the question betwixt your self and me , clavis regni caelorum sunt doctrina evangelii . now since keys are nothing without some hand to manage them , we must in the second place discover into whose hands they are committed . and for this purpose , first of all , it must not be denied that principally and properly , ( i might well enough add only , if i listed , but that i spare you ) the hand of god it is , that manages and applies these keys : for of god and christ it is written , he hath the keys , he opens , and no man shuts ; he shuts , and no man opens . yet since it hath pleased god to use the ministery of men , to the saving of men , and bringing them into the kingdom of heaven ; in a secondary sense , the keys of that kingdom are said to be put into the hands of men. in as much as it hath pleased the wisdom of god , not to use these keys , at least as far as concerns the beneficial and opening part , some act of man not first premised ; for since that faith in jesus christ is the sum of the doctrine of the gospel , and faith cometh not but by hearing , and hearing cometh not but by preaching , and preaching is the act of men alone , ( for god employs not angels in that behalf , ) it appears that this preaching , or manifestation of the doctrine of the gospel not performed , the keys must needs be unprofitable . by the manifestation of the gospel of god , i mean not only the labour of the lip , in expounding , praying , reproving , or the like , but the administration of sacraments , the acting ( if any thing beyond this is to be acted ) whatsoever the manifestation of the gospel requireth . so that i think i may set down for a second ground towards the settling of the point in question , thus much , that the managing or application of the keys , so far forth as men are intrusted with them , is , the manifestation of the doctrine of the gospel . thus far have we opened in general the substance of the keys , and the use of them . i come now to your queries . first , you ask of the quality of the apostles receiving this power , whether they had it as judges authoritativè , or as messengers , declarativè only to propound , or denounce ? you manifest your self for the former , and reasons you bring , such as they be . your reasons i shall consider in their place , but i must first tell you that you ask amiss ; for your question is concerning the whole power of the keys , but you answer only of a part , that is , of sacramental absolution only , as if all the power of the keys resided there . so that here you use the fallacy plurium interrogationum ; and i might well grant you , that indeed that part were judicativè but yet contend that all the rest were only declarativè . to reduce you therefore i must do with you as physicians in some cases deal with their patients ; ere i can come to purge the humour you are sick of , i must a little prepare you . the power of the keys , is express'd by the learned in three yokes , or pairs of words . 1. to remit , and to retain . 2. to loose , and to bind . 3. to open , and to shut . on the one side to remit , to loose , to open , which is the one half of the power , agree in one , and signify the same thing ; so do the other three , to retain , to bind , to shut , which contain the other half . to your question then , whether the power of the keys be declarative only ? i answer first : for this latter part or half , it is meerly declarative , neither can it be otherwise ; which that you may see with your eyes , i must request you to observe , that all shutting of the kingdom of heaven , is either common to all , or casual , befalling only some . the common exclusion is that state of nature , wherein we all are involved , as we spring from the first adam ; the second exclusion is that which befals christians relapsing into sin . the first shutting was at the fall , and was then prefigured unto us , by the barring up of the way unto the tree of life . what active , what judiciary part can any minister of the gospel have here ? all that the apostles could do here , was but to open to men this their misery , a thing before the death of our saviour , either very sparingly , or not at all revealed . of this therefore you must needs quit your hands , and so you must of the other , i mean exclusion upon casualty and relapse . for when a man converted to christianity falleth eftsoon into some mortal sin , doth the gate of heaven stand open to him , till he fall upon some curst priest , that used his key to shut it ? there are in the world a kind of deceitful locks with sliding bolts , i have seen my self and others much deceived by them , when the doors have fallen at our heels , and lockt us out , when we intended no such thing . sir , heaven-door hath a sliding-lock ; upon occasion of mortal sin , it will shut without any use of a key . perchance i do nor well , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet the sober meaning of what i have spoken merrily , is but this , that either you must make the ministery of the gospel only declarative , or else it will follow that every impenitent relapser , that hath the good fortune to escape the priests being privy to his sin , is like to find heaven open at the last . so then it is apparent , that notwithstanding your heaping up of interrogatories , and your pressing of ligaveritis & vos , and telling me what i never knew , that solvere and ligare be actives ; yet in this part of our power , all your activity is lost , and there remains nothing for you but to report upon good evidence , what you find done by your betters to your hand . half your jurisdiction then is fallen , and if i had no other medium but this ; i might with good probability conclude against you for the other part . for if the one half made in the same form , in the like phrase and garb of speech , yet enforceth no more but declaration and denouncing : then why should you think the other half , ( which in likelyhood is homogeneal to the former ) to be more ? nay , there is far more natural equity that you should be here only declarative than in the other . politicians tell us , that it is wisdom for princes , who desire to gain the love of their subjects , to administer themselves all favours and graces , but to leave action of justice and harshness to be performed by others . sir , no prince can be so ambitious of the love of his subjects , as god is of the love of mankind : why then should i think him so ill a politician , as to make himself the administrator of the rough , unpleasing , love-killing offices , of binding , shutting , retaining ; and then pass over to the priest , the dispensation of the fair , well-spoken , ingratiating offices of remitting , loosing , and opening ? but i will leave this kind of topick and dialectical arguing , because you are a pretender to convincing reasons : i will directly enter even upon that part of your power of opening , and remitting , being the other part of your territory , and by main strength , take all activity from you there too . give me leave to ask you one question , you may very well favour me so far , for you have asked me very many . the conversion of a sinner , is it an act of the keys , yea or no ? by your principles it is not ; for you make the power of the keys to be judiciary , and therefore the conversion of an infidel pertains not to them : the church of rome will help you with a medium to make this argument good . do we not judge those that are within ? for those that are without , god shall judge , saith paul : whence she infers , that a converted infidel , not yet admitted to the church , is a stranger to the judiciary power of the keys ; but being once admitted into the church , he is now become the church's subject , and so fit matter for the priest to work on upon his next relapse . what think you of this reason ? do you take it to be good ? take heed ; or else it will give you a deadly stripe . for the conversion of an infidel , out of question is a most proper act of the keys . for since , the opening of the kingdom of heaven , is confess'd to belong unto the keys ; and heaven which was shut against the infidel in time of his infidelity , upon his conversion is acknowledged to be opened unto him ; certainly whoever converted him , used the keys ; or else he must pretend to have either a pick-lock , or the herb lunaria , which , they say , makes locks fall off from doors , and the fetters from horses heels . if then the conversion of a sinner be an act of the keys , and by the argument of the church of rome it be not judiciary , it follows then , that all acts of the keys are not judiciary ; and if not judiciary , then declarative only . for betwixt these two i know no mean. but because to dispute against a man out of his own principles , which perchance are false ( for this oft we know falls out , that by the power of syllogisms , men may and do draw true conclusions from false premises ) because , i say , thus to do , in the judgment of aristotle , leaves a man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and i am willing not only to perswade you , but to better you : i will draw the little which remains to be said in this point from other places . first , in all the apostles practice in converting jews and gentiles , find you any thing like unto the act of any judiciary power ? they neither did , nor could use any such thing . that they did not , appears by philip , who having catechized the eunuch , and finding him desirous of baptism , immediately upon profession of his faith , admitted him into the church . that they neither did nor could , appears by peter and the rest of the apostles in the acts , who could never in the space of an afternoon , being none but themselves , have converted three thousand souls , had they taken any such way , as you seem to misfancy . again , imagine with your self all circumstances you can , which are of force to make a power judiciary , apply them all to the practice of the apostles , in the conversion of infidels , and if you find any one of them agree to that action , let me be challenged upon it , and be thought to have abused you with a fallacy . to conclude then , since your ligaveritis , which is the one half of your pretended jurisdiction , pretends to nothing above declarative : and since your solveritis , in so great an act as is the conversion of infidels , lays claim to no more , what act of the power of the keys is it , wherein we may conceive hope of finding any thing active or judiciary ? i see what you will say , there yet remains a part , you think , wherein you have hope to speed , and that is the reconciling of relapsing christians : as you fancy that in every sinning christian , there is a duty binding him to repair , and lay his sin open to the minister of the gospel , and him a power to consider of the sins of such as repair unto him , to weigh particulars , to consider circumstances , and occasions , and according to true judgment , either upon penance imposed to absolve sin , ( which you call remitting of the sin ) or to with-hold him for a time , from participation of holy duties with catholick christians , which you call retaining of sins , supposing that god doth the like in heaven , as it is written , what you bind in earth , is bound in heaven , and what you loose in earth , is loosed in heaven . now the rock on which you labour to found so extravagant a conceit , is no other than the words which i have quoted out of scripture ; you press earnestly the ligaveritis & vos , all which can yield you small relief ; for if they help you not at all in those weighty parts of the power of the keys , which but now were laid before you ; by what analogy can you expect they should afford you any assistance here ? as is ligare , so is solvere ; as is the conversion of an infidel , so is the reconciling of a relapsing christian , for any thing you can make appear : either all is declarative , which is very possible , and in many cases necessary , or all judicative , which in some cases is impossible , and in none necessary ; so that to fit the scripture to your fancy , you are constrained to distract and rend it without any warrant at all . but you have found out in the text a stronger argument against the declarative power , i contend for : you espie an insufflavit , a great , a solemn , and unwonted ceremony , undoubtedly concluding some greater matter than a poor power declarative : what ? did our serious master thus spend his breath to no purpose , and like a hocus pocus with so much shew act us a solemn nothing ? i pray whose words are these ? i should have thought them to have been porphyry's , or julian's , ( but that i know your hand ) for you subscribed not your name to your letters : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : they are the words of your pindarus , upon an occasion not much unlike unto this . sir , you have no skill to judge , or set a price upon so divine an act : he lost not his breath , when he spent his insuflavit ; he opened their wits , that they might understand the scripture ▪ he revealed to them the mysteries of jesus christ , dying and rising again for the world's salvation , the greatest news that ever was reported in the world , and till then concealed ; he commanded them to be the first bringers of this good news , and that they might the more undauntedly perform their charge , he endowed them with infallibility , with infinite constancy and fortitude , with power of working such wonders as none could do unless god were with them . appello conscientiam tuam : were those things such nothings , that they deserve to be thus jeered ? but that befalls you which befalls the stares that dwell in the steeple , who fear not the bells , because they hear them every day . these wonderful benefits of god have every day founded in your ears , and frequency of them hath taught you to forget your reverence to them . yet all this insufflavit , this ceremony , was for no other end but to further a declarative power : their undaunted fortitude , their power of miracling , their infallibility did but add countenance and strength to their declarative power , by which they went up and down the world , to manifest the good tidings of salvation . so that even these which served thus to set off the gospel , were nothing else but means of the better manifestation of it ; therefore may they very well pass , if not amongst the keys , yet amongst the necessary wards . whereas your fancy of an active or judicative power in the priest , concurring with god in reconciling relapsing christians , is neither one nor other , but is indeed like unto the work of some deceitful smith , who the better to countenance and grace his works , adds to his key superfluous and idle wards , which in the opening of the lock , are of no use at all . to your second query , whether the keys were confined to the apostles only ? the answer is in no case hard to give , it may perchance in some case be dangerous ; for there is a generation of men in the world ( the clergy they call them ) who impropriate the keys unto themselves , and would be very angry to understand , that others from themselves should claim a right unto them . to your question then , no doubt but originally none received the keys from the mouth of our saviour , but the apostles only ; none did , nor ever could manage them with that authority and splendour as the apostles did , who were above all most amply furnis hed with all things fitting so great a work . for whereas you seem to intimate that the preaching mission was communicated to others , as the seventy two disciples , as well as the apostles ; you do but mistake your self , if you conceive that the keys of the gospel were any way committed to them ; for concerning the mysteries of jesus christ , and him crucified for the sins of the world ( wherein indeed the opening of the kingdom of heaven did consist ) they received it not , they knew it not . to be the prime reporters of this , was an honour imparted only to the apostles : yet were they not so imparted , as that they should be confined to them . every one that heard and received the light of the saving doctrine from them , so far forth as he had understanding in the ways of life , had now the keys of the kingdom of heaven committed to his power , both for his own and others use . every own , of what state or condition soever , that hath any occasion offered him , to serve another in the ways of life , clergy , or lay , male or female , whatever he be , hath these keys , not only for himself , but for the benefit of others . for if natural goodness teach every man , lumen de lumine , erranti comiter monstrare viam , &c. then how much more doth christian goodness require of every one , to his ability to be a light to those who sit in darkness , and direct their steps , who most dangerously mistake their way ? to save a soul , every man is a priest . to whom i pray you , is , that said in leviticus , thou shalt not see thy brother sin , but thou shalt reprove , and save thy brother ? and if the law binds a man , when he saw his enemies cattel to stray , to put them into their way ; how much more doth it oblige him to do the like for the man himself ? see you not how the whole world conspires with me in the same opinion ? doth not every father teach his son , every master his servant , every man his friend . how many of the laity in this age , and from time to time , in all ages , have by writing for the publick good , propagated the gospel of christ , as if some secret instinct of nature had put into mens minds thus to do . i shame to dwell so long upon so plain a theme , yet because i feel your pulse , and perceive what it is that troubles you , i must say something to an objection , which i know you make . you conceive that forthwith upon this which i have said , must needs follow some great confusion of estates , and degrees , the laity will straitway get up into our pulpits , we shall lose our credit , and the adoration which the simple sort do yield us is in danger to be lost . sir , fear you not , the sufficient and able of the clergy , will reap no discountenance , but honour by this : for he that knows how to do well himself , will most willingly approve what is well done by another . it is extreme poverty of mind to ground your reputation upon another man's ignorance , and to secure your self , you do well , because you perceive perchance , that none can judge how ill you do . be not angry then to see others joyn with you in part of your charge . i would all the lord's people did preach , and that every man did think himself , bound to discharge a part of the common good : and make account that the care of other mens souls concerned him as well as of his own . when the apostles took order to ordain some , upon whom the publick burden of preaching the gospel should lie , it was not their purpose to impropriate the thing to those persons alone ; but knowing that what was left to the care of all , was commonly worst lookt unto , in wise and most christian care , they designed some whose duty it should be to wait upon the gospel alone , the better to preserve the profession to the world's end : it hath been the wisdom of those , who have taken care of the propagation of arts , and sciences , not only to appoint means , that multitudes should study and make profession privately , but that some should be constituted publick professors to teach è cathedra , that so all might know to whom to repair , in the doubts incident to their faculties , and this hath been thought a sovereign way to preserve sciences . sir , we are the publick professors of christianity , we speak è cathedra , which none can do , but such as are ordained . let the private profession and practice of christianity improve it self never so much , yet the honour of the publick professor , so he deserves his place , can never impair . it grieves me to stand so long upon so plain , so unwelcome a lesson , i will ease my self and you , and reflect upon your third query . in the third place , you require to know , what necessity , or what convenience there is of confession ? you mean , i think , that confession , which is as foolishly as commonly called sacramental , for it hath nothing of a sacrament in it . did i know your mind a little more in particular , what form of confession you speak of , whether as it is used in the church of rome , or in some refined guise , as it seems some would , who have of late called for it in the church of england , i should speak peradventure more appositely to what you desire . but you have proposed confession only in generality , my answer shall be in like manner . and ▪ first of all , confession of sins is a thing , not only convenient , but unavoidably necessary to salvation , without which none shall ever see god. and thus far i suppose all christians do agree . the main difference is in the manner of practising it , the question being , what parties are to be interessed in it ? natural equity informeth us , that unto every party , justly offended , satisfaction some way or other is due . the first party wronged in every offence , is god against whose honour , and express command every sin is committed . to him therefore in the first place , satisfaction is due by submission and acknowledgment , since there remains no other way of composition with god. but there are some sins committed against god , some committed against god and men. in the former , it is sufficient if we pacifie god alone ; in the latter , our neighbour , against whom we have trespass'd , must receive satisfaction for the wrong done him , at least , if it be in the power of the trespasser . your primer of sarum will tell you , that not to make restitution , if you be able , and not to pardon , unavoidably excludes from the kingdom of heaven . now might the doctrine of confession and acknowledgement in case of offence given , have been permitted to run fair and clear , as it descends from god , and good reason , the first fountains of it . there needed no more to be said in this argument , than i already told you . but i know not what intempestive foolish ambition hath troubled the stream , and it hath pass'd now for a long time ( till the reformation altered it ) for a general doctrine in the church , that in all kind of sins , whether against god , or our neighbour , there can be no reconciliation betwixt the parties offending and offended , but by interposition of a priest , a thing utterly besides all reason and common sense that you should open your private imperfections to one whom they concern not , ( for it is granted , that all parties concerned in an offence , must have reason at the hands of the offender ) and who can no ways help you : for he that is conscious of his sin , ( and without trouble of conscience i think none would ever repair to his confessor ) knows very well , that there is no sin so great , but upon submission , god both can and will pardon it ; and none so small , but pardon for it must be sought , or else he hath been ill catechized . and more than this , what can any priest tell him : * your pliny , somewhere tells you , that he that is stricken by a scorpion , if he go immediately , and whisper it into the ear of an ass , shall find himself immediately eased : that sin is a scorpion , and bites deadly , i have always believed , but that to cure the bite of it , was a sovereign remedy to whisper it into the ear of an [ ] a priest , i do as well believe as i do that of pliny . the patrons of this fancy for defect of reason and common congruity , are fain to betake themselves to scripture ; and the mischief is , there is there no direct text for it , and therefore they are constrained to help themselves with a meer conjectural consequence : for since it is taken for certain , that there is a power to remit and to retain sins , how shall they who have this power given them , know how fit it is to remit or to retain a sin , except they know the sin , and know it they cannot , but by confession . for answer to this , first , we have found and proved , that the words of scripture must receive such a sense , as from whence no such consequence can be inferred . secondly ; we have indeavoured to prove , that the dispensation or application of the keys of the kingdom of heaven , ( being nothing else , but the duty of saving of souls ) is a duty , which pro occasione oblatâ , lies upon every christian : which if it be true , ( as in good faith i think it , ) and the clergy perceive it , i think they would never go about to urge that text , although we should yield it them in their own meaning . for they must needs see , that it follows , that you may as well make your muletter , ( if you have one ) your confessor , as your parish-priest . tell me in good earnest , if you can , out of what good intent can this desire to know another man's sin , which concerns you not , proceed ? is it to teach him that it is a sin ? he knew that , or else he had never repaired to you , to confess it : is it to tell him , that he is to repent , to restore , to pray , to give alms , &c. all this he knew , or else he hath had his breeding under an evil clergy . yea , but how shall the physician cure the disease , if he know it not ? suppose all diseases had one remedy ( as all spiritual have ) and what matters it if the patient be sick , to know whether it be an ague , or meazles , or pleurifie , since one potion cures them all ? yea , but if he know not the particulars , how shall he judge of the quantity of the doses ? for the same disease upon sundry circumstances may require majus or minus in the physick . this is the poorest scruple of a thousand ; for in the regiment of patients spiritually sick there can be but one mistake , that is , if you give too little : be sure you give enough , and teach your patients to think no sin to be little , ( which in men spiritually sick is error saluberrimus ) and you can never err : for natural physick is only physick ; but spiritual physick is both physick and diet , and may be indifferently administred both to the sick and the sound ; repentance perchance only excepted , of which upon occasion , assure your self can hardly take too much . what reason now can you give me , why you should desire to dive into any man's breast , & scire secreta domûs ? except it be that which follows in the next verse , indè teneri , as i must confess , i suspect it is . the truth is , some mistaken customs of the ancient church , the craft and power of the clergy , the simplicity and ignorance of the laity , these begat the tragelaphus , of which we now speak . it may be you take the practice of the ancient church , and the point of excomunication , to make somewhat for you : when those cards shall come to be play'd ( though that of church-custom is not greatly material , which way soever it looks ) i believe you will not find the game you look for . indeed i was once minded to have considered something of that : but i think you look for a letter , not for a book , and i perceive my self already to have gone beyond the compass of a letter . another parley therefore , if you please , shall put an end to those and other scruples , if any do arise . and for the present give , i pray you , a little respite unto . yours , j. h. from my study , this 8 day of march. 1637. a tract concerning schism . heresie and schism as they are in common use , are two theological 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or scare-crows , which they , who uphold a party in religion , use to fright away such , as making inquiry into it , are ready to relinquish and oppose it , if it appear either erroneous or suspicious . for as plutarch reports of a painter who having unskilfully painted a cock , chased away all cocks and hens , that so the imperfection of art might not appear by comparison with nature ; so men willing for ends to admit of no fancy but their own , endeavour to hinder an inquiry into it by way of comparison of somewhat with it , peradventure truer , that so the deformity of their own might not appear . but howsoever in the common manage , heresie and schism are but ridiculous terms , yet the things in themselves are of very considerable moment , the one offending against truth , the other against charity , and therefore both deadly , where they are not by imputation , but in deed . it is then a matter of no small importance , truly to descry the nature of them , that so they may fear , who are guilty of them , and they on the contrary strengthen themselves , who through the iniquity of men and times , are injuriously charged with them . schism ( for of heresie we shall not now treat , except it be by accident , and that by occasion of a general mistake spread throughout all the writings of the ancients , in which their names are familiarly confounded ) schism , i say , upon the very sound of the word , imports division ; division is not , but where communion is or ought to be . now communion is the strength and ground of all society , whether sacred or civil : whosoever therefore they be , that offend against this common society and friendliness of men , and cause separation and breach among them : if it be in civil occasions , are guilty of sedition or rebellion ; if it be by occasion of ecclesiastical difference , they are guilty of schism : so that schism is an ecclesiastical sedition , as sedition is a lay-schism . yet the great benefit of communion notwithstanding , in regard of divers distempers men are subject to , dissension and disunion are often necessary : for when either false or uncertain conclusions are obtruded for truth , and acts either unlawful , or ministring just scruple , are required of us to be perform'd ; in these cases , consent were conspiracy , and open contestation is not faction or schism , but due christian animosity . for the further opening therefore of the nature of schism , something must be added by way of difference to distinguish it from necessary separation , and that is , that the causes upon which division is attempted , proceed not from passion , or distemper , or from ambition , or avarice , or such other ends , as humane folly is apt to pursue ; but from well weighed and necessary reasons , and that , when all other means having been tryed , nothing will serve to save us from guilt of conscience , but open separation . so that schism , if we would define it is nothing else but an unnecessary separation of christians from that part of the visible church , of which they were once members . now as in mutinies and civil dissensions , there are two attendants in ordinary belonging unto them ; one the choice of one elector or guide in place of the general , or ordinary governour , to rule and guide ; the other the appointing of some publick place or rendezvous , where publick meetings must be celebrated : so in church-dissensions and quarrels , two appurtenances there are , which serve to make a schism compleat . first , the choice of a bishop in opposition to the former , ( a thing very frequent amongst the ancients , and which many times was both the cause and effect of schism . ) secondly , the erecting of a new church and oratory , for the dividing-party to meet in publickly . for till this be done , the schism is but yet in the womb. in that late famous controversy in holland , de praedestinatione , & auxiliis , as long as the disagreeing parties went no further than disputes and pen-combats , the schism was all that while unhatched ; but as soon as one party swept an old cloyster and by a pretty art suddenly made it a church , by putting a new pulpit in it , for the separating party there to meet ; now , what before was a controversy , became a formal schism . to know no more than this , if you take it to be true , had been enough to direct how you are to judge , and what to think of schism and shismaticks ; yet because in the ancients , ( by whom many men are more affrighted than hurt ) much is said , and many fearful dooms are pronounced in this case ; will we descend a little to consider of schisms , as it were by way of story , and that partly further to open that which we have said in general , by instancing in particulars ; and partly to disabuse those who reverencing antiquity more than needs , have suffered themselves to be scared with imputation of schism , above due measure ; for what the ancients spake by way of censure of schism in general , is most true ; for they saw ( and it is no great matter to see so much ) that unadvisedly , and upon fancy to break the knot of union betwixt man and man ( especially amongst christians , upon whom above all other kind of men , the tye of love and communion doth most especially rest ) was a crime hardly pardonable , and that nothing absolves a man from the guilt of it , but true and unpretended conscience ; yet when they came to pronounce of schisms in particular ( whether it were because of their own interests , or that they saw not the truth , or for what other cause god only doth know ) their judgments many times ( to speak most gently ) are justly to be suspected : which that you may see , we will range all schism into two ranks . for there is a schism , in which only one party is the schismatick ; for where cause of schism is necessary , there not he that separates , but he that occasions the separation is the schismatick . secondly , there is a schism , wherein both parties are the schismaticks : for where the occasion of separation is unnecessary , neither side can be excused from the guilt of schism . but you will ask , who shall be the judge what is necessary ? indeed that is a question , which hath been often made , but i think scarcely ever truly answered ; not because it is a point of great depth or difficulty truly to assoil it , but because the true solution carries fire in the tail of it . for it bringeth with it a piece of doctrine which is seldom pleasing to superiours . to you for the present this shall suffice . if so be you be animo defoecato , if you have cleared your self from froath and grounds ; if neither sloth , nor fears , nor ambition nor any tempting spirits of that nature abuse you ( for these and such as these are the true impediments , why both that , and other questions of the like danger are not truly answered ) if all this be and yet you see not how to frame your resolution , and settle your self for that doubt ; i will say no more of you than was said of papias , st. john's own scholar , you are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , your abilities are not so good as i presumed . but to go on with what i intended , and from which that interloping question diverted me ; that you may the better judge of the nature of schisms by their occasions ; you shall find that all schisms have crept into the church by one of these three ways ; either upon matter of fact , or matter of opinion , or point of ambition . for the first ; i call that matter of fact , when something is required to be done by us , which either we know , or strongly suspect to be unlawful : so the first notable schism , of which we read in the church , contained in it matter of fact ; for it being upon error taken for necessary , that an easter must be kept ; and upon worse than error , if i may so speak ( for it was no less than a point of judaism , forced upon the church , ) upon worse than error , i say , thought further necessary , that the ground for the time of our keeping that feast , must be the rule left by moses to the jews ; there arose a stout question , whether we were to celebrate with the jews , on the 14th moon , or the sunday following ? this matter , though most unnecessary , most vain , yet caused as great a combustion , as ever was in the church ; the west separating and refusing communion with the east , for many years together . in this fantastical hurry , i cannot see but all the world were schismaticks : neither can any thing excuse them from that imputation ; excepting only this , that we charitably suppose that all parties out of conscience did what they did . a thing which befel them through the ignorance of their guides ; ( for i will not say their malice ) and that through the just judgment of god ; because through sloth and blind obedience , men examined not the things which they were taught , but like beasts of burden patiently couched down , and indifferently underwent whatsoever their superiours laid upon them . by the way ; by this you may plainly see the danger of our appeal unto antiquity , for resolution in controverted points of faith , and how small relief we are to expect from thence . for if the discretion of the chiefest guides and directors of the church , did in a point so trivial , so inconsiderable , so mainly fail them , as not to see the truth in a subject , wherein it is the greatest marvel how they could avoid the sight of it ; can we without imputation of extreme grosness and folly , think so poor-spirited persons , competent judges of the questions now on foot betwixt the churches ? pardon me ; i know not what temptation drew that note from me . the next schism , which had in it matter of fact , is that of the donatist : who was perswaded ( at least so he pretended ) that it was unlawful to converse or communicate in holy duties with men stained with any notorious sin. ( for howsoever austin and others do specify only the thurificati & traditores , and libellatici , and the like , as if he separated only from those , whom he found to be such ; yet by necessary proportion , he must refer to all notorious sinners ) upon this he taught , that in all places where good and bad were mixt together , there could be no church , by reason of pollution , evaporating as it were from sinners , which blasted righteous persons who conversed with them , and made all unclean . on this ground separating himself from all whom he list to suspect , he gave out , that the church was no where to be found but in him and his associates , as being the only men among whom wicked persons found no shelter ; and by consequence , the only clean and unpolluted company , and therefore the only church . against this saint augustine laid down this conclusion , unitatem ecclesiae per totum orbem dispersae propter nonnullorum peccata non esse deserendam ; which is indeed , the whole sum of that father's disputation against the donatist . now in one part of this controversie betwixt st. augustine and the donatist , there is one thing is very remarkable . the truth was there where it was by meer chance , and might have been on either side , any reasons brought by either party notwithstanding . for though it were de facto false , that pars donati , shut up in africk , was the only orthodox party , yet it might have been true , notwithstanding any thing st. augustine brings to confute it ; and on the contrary , though it were de facto true , that the part of christians dispersed over the earth were orthodox ; yet it might have been false notwithstanding any thing st. augustine brings to confirm it . for where , or amongst whom or amongst how many the church shall be , or is , is a thing indifferent ; it may be in any number more or less , it may be in any place , country , or nation ; it may be in all , and ( for ought i know ) it may be in none , without any prejudice to the definition of the church , or the truth of the gospel . north or south , many or few , dispersed in many places , or confined to one ; none of these either prove or disprove a church . now this schism , and likewise the former , to a wise man that well understands the matter in controversie ; may afford perchance matter of pity , to see men so strangely distracted upon fancy ; but of doubt or trouble what to do , it can yield none . for though in this schism the donatist be the schismatick , and in the former both parties be equally engaged in the schism ; yet you may safely upon your occasions communicate with either , so be you flatter neither in their schism : for why might it not be lawful to go to church with the donatist , or to celebrate easter with the quartodeciman , if occasion so require ? since neither nature nor religion , nor reason doth suggest any thing to the contrary : for in all publick meetings pretending holiness , so there be nothing done , but what true devotion and piety brook , why may not i be present in them , and use communication with them ? nay , what if those to whose care the execution of the publick service is committed , do something either unseemly or suspicious , or peradventure unlawful ? what if the garments they wear be censured as , nay indeed be superstitious ? what if the gesture of adoration be used at the altar , as now we have learned to speak ? what if the homilist or preacher deliver any doctrine of the truth of which we are not well perswaded ; ( a thing which very often falls out ) yet for all this we may not separate , except we be constrained personally to bear a part in them our selves . the priests under eli had so ill demeaned themselves about the daily sacrifice , that the scripture tells us , they made it to stink , yet the people refused not to come to the tabernacle , nor to bring their sacrifice to the priest . for in these schisms , which concern fact , nothing can be a just cause of refusal of communion , but only to require the execution of some unlawful or suspected act : for not only in reason , but in religion too , that maxim admits of no release , cautissimi cujusque praeceptum quod dubitas , ne feceris . long it was ere the church fell upon schism upon this occasion , though of late it hath had very many ; for until the second council of nice , ( in which concilable superstition and ignorance did conspire ) i say , untill that rout did set up image-worship , there was not any remarkable schism , upon just occasion of fact : all the rest of schisms of that kind were but wantonness , this was truly serious . in this the schismatical party was the synod it self , and such as conspired with it . for concerning the use of images in sacris , first , it is ackowledged by all , that it is not a thing necessary : secondly , it is by most suspected : thirdly it is by many held utterly unlawful . can then the enjoyning of the practice of such a thing be ought else but abuse ? or can the refusal of communion here , be thought any other thing than duty ? here , or upon the like occasion , to separate , may peradventure bring personal trouble and danger , ( against which it concerns every honest man to have pectus benè praeparatum ) further harm it cannot do . so that in these cases , you cannot be to seek what to think , or what you have to do . come we then to consider a little of the second sort of schism , arising upon occasion of variety of opinion . it hath been the common disease of christians from the beginning , not to content themselves with that measure of faith , which god and scriptures have expresly afforded us ; but out of a vain desire to know more than is revealed , they have attempted to discuss things , of which we can have no light , neither from reason nor revelation ; neither have they rested here , but upon pretence of church-authority , which is none , or tradition , which for the most part is but figment ; they have peremptorily concluded , and confidently imposed upon others , a necessity of entertaining conclusions of that nature ; and to strengthen themselves , have broken out into divisions and factions , opposing man to man , synod to synod , till the peace of the church vanished , without all possibility of recall . hence arose those ancient and many separations amongst christians , occasioned by arrianism , eutychianism , nestorianism , photinianism , sabellianism , and many more both ancient and in our time ; all which indeed are but names of schism ; howsoever in the common language of the fathers , they were called heresies . for heresie is an act of the will , not of reason ; and is indeed a lye , not a mistake : else how could that known speech of austine go for true , errare possum , haereticus esse nolo . indeed manichaeism , valentianism , marcionism , mahometanism , are truly and properly heresies ; for we know that the authors of them received them not , but minted them themselves , and so knew that which they taught to be a lye. but can any man avouch that arrius and nostorius , and others that taught erroneously concerning the trinity , or the person of our saviour , did maliciously invent what they taught , and not rather fall upon it by erorr and mistake ? till that be done , and that upon good evidence , we will think no worse of all parties than needs we must , and take these rents in the church to be at the worst but schisms upon matter of opinion . in which case what we are to do , is not a point of any great depth of understanding to discover , so be distemper and partiality do not intervene . i do not yet see , that opinionum varietas , & opinontium unitas are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or that men of different opininions in christian religion , may not hold communion in sacris , and both go to one church . why may i not go , if occasion require , to and arrian church , so there be no arrianism exprest in their liturgy ? and were liturgies and publick forms of service so framed , as that they admitted not of particular and private fancies , but contained only such things , as in which all christians do agree , schisms on opinion were utterly vanished . for consider of all the liturgies that are or ever have been , and remove from them whatsoever is scandalous to any party , and leave nothing but what all agree on , and the event shall be , that the publick service and honour of god shall no ways suffer : whereas to load our publick forms with the private fancies upon which we differ , is the most sovereign way to perpetuate schism unto the worlds end . prayer , confession , thanksgiving , reading of scriptures , exposition of scripture , administration of sacraments in the plainest and simplest manner , were matter enough to furnish out a sufficient liturgy , though nothing either of private opinion , or of church pomp , of garments , of prescribed gestures , of imagery , of musick , of matter concerning the dead , of many superfluities , which creep into the churches under the name of order and decency , did interpose it self . for to charge churches liturgies with things unnecessary , was the first beginning of all superstition , and when scruples of conscience began to be made or pretended , then schisms began to break in . if the spiritual guides and fathers of the church would be a little sparing of incumbring churches with superfluities , and not over rigid either in reviving obsolete customs , or imposing new , there were far less danger of schism or superstition ; and all the inconvenience were likely to ensue , would be but this , they should in so doing , yield a little to the imbecilities of inferiors , a thing which st. paul would never have refused to do . mean while , wheresoever false or suspected opinions are made a piece of the church liturgy , he that seperates is not the schismatick ; for it is alike unlawful to make profession of known or suspected falshoods , as to put in practice unlawful or suspect actions . the third thing i noted for matter of schism was ambition , i mean episcopal ambition , shewing it self especially in two heads ; one concerning plurality of bishops in the same see , another the superiority of bishops in divers sees . aristotle tells us , that necessity causeth but small faults , but avarice and ambition were the mothers of great crimes ; episcopal ambition hath made this true : for no occasion hath produced more frequent , more continuing , more sanguinary schisms , than this hath done . the sees of alexandria , of constantinople , of antioch , and above all of rome , do abundantly shew thus much , and our ecclesiastical stories witness no less , of which the greatest part consists in the factionating and tumultuating of great and potent bishops . socrates apologizing for himself , that professing to write an ecclesiastical story , he did oft-times interlace the actions of secular princes and other civil businesses ; tells us , that he did thus to refresh his reader , who otherwise were in danger to be cloy'd by reading so much of the acts of unquiet and unruly bishops , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in which as a man might say , they made butter and cheese one of another ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( that i may shew you a cast out of my old office , and open you a mystery in grammer ) properly signifieth to make butter and cheese : now because these are not made without much agitation of the milk , hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by a borrowed and translated signification , signifies to do things with much agitation and tumult . but that i may a little consider of the two heads which i but now specified ; the first i mentioned was the plurality of bishops in one see. for the general practice of the church from the beginning , at least since the original of episcopacy , as now it is , was never to admit at once more than one bishop in one see ; and so far in this point have they been careful to preserve unity , that they would not suffer a bishop in his see to have two cathedral churches , which thing lately brought us a book out of france , de monogamia episcoporum , written by occasion of the bishop of langres , who , i know not upon what fancy , could not be content with one cathedral church in his diocess , but would needs have two , which to the author of that work seems to be a kind of spiritual polygamy . it fell out amongst the ancients very often ; sometimes upon occasion of difference in opinion , sometimes because of difference amongst those who were interessed in the choice of bishops , that two bishops and sometimes more were set up , and all parties striving to maintain their own bishop , made themselves several churches , several congregations , each refusing to participate with others , and many times proceeding to mutual excommunication . this is that which cyprian calls erigere altare contra altare : to this doth he impute the original of all church disorders ; and if you read him , you would think he thought no other church-tumult to be a schism but this . this perchance might plead some excuse ; for though in regard of religion it self , it matters not whether there be one or more bishops in the same diocess , and sometimes two are known to have sat at once ( for epiphanius reckoning up the bishops of rome , makes peter and paul the first : and st. austin acknowledgeth , that for a time he sat fellow bishop with his predecessor , though he excuseth it , that he did so by being ignorant that the contrary had been decreed by the council of nice , ) yet it being a thing very convenient for the peace of the church to have it so ; neither doth it any way savour of vice or misdemeanor ; their punishment sleeps not , who unnecessarily and wantonly go about to infringe it . but that other head of episcopal ambition , concerning supremacy of bishops in divers sees , one claiming superority over another , as it hath been from time to time , a great trespasser against the churches peace , so it is now the final ruin of it . the east and the west , through the fury of the two prime bishops , being irremediably separated without all hope of reconcilement . and besides all this mischief , it is founded in a vice contrary to all christian humility , without which no man shall see his saviour ; for they do but abuse themselves and others , that would perswade us , that bishops , by christ's institution , have any superiority over other men , further than of reverence ; or that any bishop is superiour to another , further than positive order agreed upon amongst christians , hath prescribed . for we have believed him that hath told us , that in jesus christ there is neither high nor low ; and that in giving honour , every man should be ready to prefer another before himself ; which sayings cut of all claim most certainly to superiority , by title of christianity ; except men can think that these things were spoken only to poor and private men. nature and religion agree in this , that neither of them hath a hand in this heraldry of secundum sub & supra ; all this comes from composition and agreement of men among themselves . wherefore this abuse of christianity , to make it lacquey to ambition , is a vice for which i have no extraordinary name of ignominy , and an ordinary i will not give it , least you should take so transcendent a vice to be but trivial . now concerning schism arising upon these heads , you cannot be for behaviour much to seek ; for you may safely communicate with all parties as occasion shall call you , and the schismaticks here are all those who are heads of the faction , together with all those who foment it : for private and indifferent persons , they may be spectators of these contentions as securely in regard of any peril of conscience ( for of danger in purse or person , i keep no account ) as at a cock fight . where serpents fight , who cares who hath the better ? the best wish is , that both may perish in the fight . now for conventicles , of the nature of which you desire to be informed , thus much in general . it evidently appears , that all meetings upon unnecessary occasions of separation are to be stiled , so that in this sense , a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismaticks ; yet time hath taken leave sometimes to fix this name upon good and honest meetings , and that perchance not altogether without good reason ; for with publick religious meetings thus it fares : first , it hath been at all times confessed necessary , that god requires not only inward and private devotion , when men either in their hearts and closets , or within their private walls , pray , praise , confess and acknowledge ; but he further requires all those things to be done in publick , by troops and shoals of men , and from hence have proceeded publick temples , altars , forms of service , appointed times , and the like , which are required for open assemblies ; yet whilst men were truly pious , all meetings of men for mutual help of piety and devotion , wheresoever and by whomsoever celebrated , were permitted without exception . but when it was espied that ill affected persons abus'd private meetings , whether religious or civil , to evil ends , religiousness to gross , impiety , ( as appears in the ethnick eleusmia , and baecchanalia ; and christian meetings under the pagan princes , when for fear they durst not come together in open view , were charged with foul imputations , as by the report of christians themselves plainly appears ; and civil meetings many times under pretence of friendly and neighbourly visits , sheltered treasonable attempts against princes and commonweals : ) hence both church and state joyned , and jointly gave order for forms , times , places of publick concourse , whether for religious or civil ends ; and all other meetings whatsoever , besides those of which both time and place were limited , they censured for routs and riots , and unlawful assemblies in the state , and in the church for conventicles . so that it is not lawful , no not for prayer , for hearing , for conference , for any other religious office whatsoever , for people to assemble otherwise , than by publick order is allowed . neither may we complain of this in times of incorruption , for why should men desire to do that suspiciously in private which warrantably may be performed in publick ? but in times of manifest corruptions and persecutions , wherein religious assembling is dangerous , private meetings , howsoever besides publick order , are not only lawful , but they are of necessity and duty ; else how shall we excuse the meetings of christians for publick service , in time of danger and persecutions , and of our selves in queen maries days ? and how will those of the roman church amongst us , put off the imputation of conventicling , who are known amongst us privately to assemble for religious exercise against all established order , both in state and church ? for indeed all pious assemblies in times of persecution and corruptions howsoever practised , are indeed , or rather alone the lawful congregations ; and publick assemblies , though according to form of law , are indeed nothing else but riots and conventicles , if they be stained with corruption , and superstition . miscellanies . how to know the church . marks and notes to know the church there are none , except we will make true profession , which is the form and essence of the church to be a mark. and as there are none , so is it not necessary there should be . for to what purpose should they serve ? that i might go seek and find out some company to mark . this is no way necessary . for glorious things are in the scriptures spoken of the church : not that i should run up and down the world to find the persons of the professors ; but that i should make my self of it . this i do by taking upon me the profession of christianity , and submitting my self to the rules of belief , and practice , delivered in the gospel , though besides my self , i knew no other professor in the world. if this were not the authors end in proposal of the title , it is but a meer vanity . to the description of the church . the church , as it imports a visible company in earth , is nothing else but the company of professors of christanity , wheresoever disperst in the earth . to define it thus by monarchy , under one visible head , is of novelty crept up , since men began to change the spiritual kingdom of christ to secular pride and tyranny , and a thing never heard of , either in the scriptures , or in the writings of the ancients . government , whether by one or many , or howsoever , if it be one of the churches contingent attributes , it is all ; certainly it is no necessary property , much less comes it into the definition and essence of it . i mean outward government ; for as for inward government , by which christ reigns in the hearts of his elect , and vindicates them from spiritual enemies , i have no occasion to speak , neither see i any reference to it in all your authors animadversions . how christ is the head of the church . from the worlds beginning , till the last hour of it , the church is essentially one and the same , howsoever perchance in garment , and outward ceremony , it admits of difference . and as it was from the beginning of the world , so was it christian ; there being no other difference betwixt the fathers before christ and us , but this , as we believe in christ that is come , so they believed in christ that was to come . jesus christ yesterday , and to day , and the same for ever . reference unto christ is the very essence of the church , and there neither is , nor ever was any church but christ's ; and therefore the church , amongst the jews was properly and truly christian , quoad rem , as we are . now as this church at all times is christ's body , so is christ the head of it . for it is as impossible for the church , as for the body , to be without its head ; it is not therefore as your author dreams . christ came not to found a new church , or to profess a visible headship of it . that relation to this church , which we express when we call him the head of it , is one and the same , from the beginning to all eternity , neither receives it any alteration in this respect , because the person in whom this relation , is founded , is sometimes visible , sometimes not . 't is true indeed , the head of the church sometimes became visible , but this is but contingent and by concomitancy . for christ the second person in the trinity , becoming man to redeem this church , and manifest the way of truth unto it ; it so fell out that the head of the church became visible . of this visibility he left no successor , no doctrine , no use , as being a thing meerly accidental : i ask , had the church before christ any visible head ? if it had , then was not christ the first , as here our teacher tells us ; if it had none , why then should the church more require a visible head , than it did from the beginning . to speak the truth at once . all these questions , concerning the notes , the visibility , the government of the church , if we look upon the substance and nature of the church , they are meerly idle and impertinent : if upon the end , why learned men do handle them , it is nothing else but faction . of peter's ministerial headship of the church . in your author's paragraphs concerning the visible encrease , or succession of the church , there is no difference betwixt us . as for the proofs of peters ministerial headship , this first concerning his being the rock of the church , that cannot prove-it ; for peter was the rock then ; when our saviour spake , but then could he not be the visible head , for christ himself then was living , and by our teachers doctrine , supplied that room himself . peter therefore howsoever , or in what sense soever he were the rock , yet could he not be the visible head , except we will grant the church to have had two visible heads at once . secondly , the keys of heaven committed to peter , and command to feed his sheep , import no more , than that common duty laid upon all the disciples , to teach all nations ; for this duty in several respects , is exprest by several metaphors . teaching , as it signifies the opening of the way to life , so is it called by the name of keys ; but as it signifies the strengthning of the soul of man by the word , which is the souls spiritual food , so is it called feeding . thus much is seen by the defenders of the church of rome , and therefore they fly for refuge to a circumstance : it is observed , that our saviour delivered this doctrine to peter alone ( as indeed sometimes he did ) in this it is supposed that some great mystery rests : for why should our saviour thus single out peter , and commend a common duty to him , if there were not something extraordinary in it , which concerned him above the rest ? this they interpret a pre-eminence that peter had in his business of teaching , which they say is a primacy and head-ship ; inforcing thus much , that all the rest were to depend from him , and from him receive what they were to preach . for answer , grant me there were some great mystery in it , yet whence is it proved , that this is that mystery ? for if our saviour did not manifest it , then might there be a thousand causes , which mans conjecture may easily miss : it is great boldness , out of causes concealed , to pick so great consequences , and to found matters of so great weight upon meer conjectures . thirdly , the prayer for confirmation of peters faith , whence it came , the course of the story set down in the text doth shew , it was our saviours prevision of peters danger to relapse , which danger he had certainly run into , had not our saviour extraordinarily prayed for confirmation of his faith. and the precept of confirming his brethren , is but that charitable office , which is exacted at every christians hand , that when himself had escaped so great a wrack , to be careful in warning and reclaiming others whom common frailty drives into the like distress . these circumstances , that peter is first named amongst the disciples , that he made the first sermon , and the like , are two weak grounds to build the soveraignty over the world upon ; and that he spake ananias and sapphira dead , argues spiritual power , but not temporal . but that peter called the first council in the acts , is a circumstance beyond the text ; for concerning the calling of the council there is no word , all that is said is but this , that the disciples and elders met , no syllable of peters calling them together . that peter was 25 years bishop of rome , is not to be proved out of antiquity , before st. hierom , who shuffled it into eusebius's chronicle , there being no such thing extant in his story . yea , that he was bishop at all ( as now the name of bishop is taken ) may be very questionable : for the ancients that reckon up the bishops of rome until their times , as eusebius , and before him tertullian , and before them both iraeneus , never account peter as bishop of that see : and epiphanius tells us , that peter and paul were both bishops of rome at once ; by which it is plain he took the title of bishop in another sense than now it is used : for now , and so for a long time upward , two bishops can no more possess one see , than two hedge-sparrows dwell in one bush . st. peters time was a little too early for bishops to rise . answer to the bishop of romes practice of supremacy . to the first , that so many of the bishops of rome were martyrs , what makes that to the purpose ? is martyrdom an argument of the supremacy ? to the second , that victor indeavoured to excommunicate the asiatick bishops , is true ; but withal it is as true , that he was withstood for his labour : for the bishops of asia themselves did sharply reprove him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the words of eusebius ; and iraeneus wrote against him for it . to the third , that the first four councils were called by the popes , is an open falshood , for in the two first , the bishops of rome are not so much as mentioned , save only as persons cited . in the two last they are mentioned only as petitioners to the emperour . there are extant the stories of eusebius , socrates , ruffinus , theodoret , sozomenus , the acts of the councils themselves , at least some of them , the writings and epistles of leo bishop of rome . in all these there is not one word of the pope farther than a supplicant , and the whole calling of the bishops together is attributed to the emperour . take for example but the last of them leo , bishop of rome , was desirous that some things done in a meeting of divines at ephesus , should be disannulled ; for this he becomes a suitor to theodosius the junior , to have a general council , but could never procure it of him . after his death he continues his suit to marcianus successor to theodosius , who granted his request ; but whereas leo had requested the council might be held in italy , the emperour would not hear him ; nay which is more , the pope upon good reason , had besought the emperour to put off the day design'd for the holding of the council , but the emperour would not hear him . so that leo could do nothing , neither for the calling the council , nor for the place nor for the time. and all this appears by leo's own epistles . if the popes could do so little well near 500 years after christ , how little could they do before , when their horns were not yet so long . the plea of the protestants concerning the corruption of the church of rome , which by them is confessed sometimes to have been pure , is no more prejudicial to christs promise to his church , that the gaits of hell shall not prevail against her , than the known corruption of the churches in asia in st. john's time , or of other churches after . the close of all is a demonstration . a word unfortunately used by your author , to bewray his logick : for indeed a reason drawn from so poor and empty a sign , falls many bows wide of demonstrative proof . first , it is false that all the rest of patriarchal sees are extinct . the see of constantinopel yet stands , and shews her succession of bishops from st. andrew , till this day , as well as the church of rome can from st. peter . the see of alexandria yet subsists and the bishop of that place calls him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , judge of the world , ( as my self have seen in some of his letters ) a title to which he hath as good right , as the bishop of rome hath to be the worlds sovereign . if any reply they are poor , in misery , in persecution and affliction : this can make no difference , since with christ there is neither rich nor poor , but a new creature . and again , their case now is as good as was the bishops of rome , under the ethnick emperors ; for their lot then was no other than those bishops is now . but grant that it had lasted longest , what then ? some of them must needs have consisted longer than the other , except we would suppose that they should have fallen all together . peradventure the reason of her so long lasting is no other , but that which the cyclops gives ulysses in homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ulysses should be eaten last of all . however it be , this vant seems but like that of the wicked servant in the gospel , tardat dominus venire , and we doubt not but a day of the lord shall overtake him who now eats and drinks , and revels with the world , and beats his fellow servants . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a44394-e1480 * plin. nat. hist . l. 28. c. 10. the notion of schism stated according to the antients, and considered with reference to the non-conformists, and the pleas for schismaticks examined being animadversions upon the plea for the non-conformists : with reflections on that famous tract of schism, written by mr. hales in two letters to a very worthy gentleman. conold, robert. 1676 approx. 131 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 55 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a34335 wing c5891 estc r11683 11998168 ocm 11998168 52132 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a34335) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 52132) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 559:2) the notion of schism stated according to the antients, and considered with reference to the non-conformists, and the pleas for schismaticks examined being animadversions upon the plea for the non-conformists : with reflections on that famous tract of schism, written by mr. hales in two letters to a very worthy gentleman. conold, robert. [11], 97 p. printed by r.w. for william oliver and george rose ... and are to be sold by them ..., and r. chiswell ..., london : 1676. to the reader signed: r.c. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in 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overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hales, john, 1584-1656. -tract concerning schisme and schismaticks. schism. 2006-08 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-08 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-06 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2007-06 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , g. jane r. p. d. henr. episc . lond. à sac . domesticis . may 17. 1676. the notion of schism stated according to the antients , and considered with reference to the non-conformists : and the pleas for schismaticks examined : being animadversions upon the plea for the non-conformists . with reflections on that famous tract of schism , written by m r. hales . in two letters to a very worthy gentleman . london , printed by r. w. for william oliver and george rose booksellers in norwich , and are to be sold by them there , and nath. brooks at the angel in cornhill , and r. chiswell at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard . 1676. to the reader . the plea for non-conformists ( tending to vindicate them from schism ) came to my hands long after its edition , and then by accident too : but the schism being still continued , i hope you will not think it too late , or impertinent to publish these animadversions upon that tract . now , should i protest against all vanity , and popularity ; disavow all interest , and sinister designs : should i tell you in most solemn , and sacred protestations , that i have no other end in the publication of these papers , but the honour of god , and the peace of his church , yet it were still at your mercy to credit these asseverations , or receive them as the usual pretensions of every author . therefore i resolve against the impertinence of an apologie , and leave you to the common liberty of censure : if i meet with the fate of st. paul , to pass through good as well as bad report , i shall have honour , and content enough . if thou art a sound , and sober member of the church of england , i know thy temper cannot be sullen , or ill-natur'd : it is thy genius to be candid , and generous , and thy religion makes thee charitable : and therefore i am assured that thy balms cannot break my head : and if these papers may in any measure contribute towards thy firmer settlement in the communion of this church , my principal end is then effected . if thou art a dissenter from this established church , but hast not lost that christian temper of modesty , and humility , read on , there is hope of thy recovery , that thou wilt not dye a schismatick . but if thou art one who hast given up thy name , and thy reason too to the leader of a conventicle ; let me beseech thee to read no further : for this little discourse will but provoke thy passion . i have no hope to prevail upon pertinacious resolutions , i never yet cleansed a leper , nor raised the dead ▪ but if i had , i should notwithstanding despond of ever perswading any obstinate , or passionate man : for it does not appear to me evident , in all the history of the gospel , that our lord ( among his many mighty works , and miracles ) ever cured perverseness . if thou art a romish recusant , let me intreat thee to suffer thy reason to recover its liberty , and not alwayes be in vassallage to those roman dictators . i know there are many of that religion in this nation , who are gentlemen , of complaisant converse , and ingenuous education : but i wonder that ye ( who pretend so much abhorrence of fanaticism , and boast of loyalty to your prince , ) should yet degrade your selves to the same level with the basest sectaries , and live in constant rebellion to the laws of your natural soveraign . there is great reason that the kings of england should ever have a peculiar jealousie upon your party : for though your bodies , and estates are subjects of england , yet your souls , or religion are under the empire of a forreign jurisdiction : and as long as ye continue so , there is no reason in the world , that can give the crown sufficient security for your lasting allegiance . as for those of your religion , who live under the laws of the romish dominions , i have great charity for them , for they can plead submission to their own superiours : and i am apt to believe that plea may be very considerable , when they come to appear before the prince of peace , and the god of order . but for you , whose lot hath cast you under the government of the kingdom , and catholick church of england , and yet to divide from their jurisdiction , and subject your selves to the canons of a forreign church , is not only a disobedience against the laws of this church , and state , but a violation of the antient canons of the catholick church ; and is so great a disorder , and unreasonableness , that the penalties inflicted for your recusancy , are as just , as they are severe , and ye merit no compassion . indeed if your deserting the romish , would put you out of the catholick church , i would never upon those hard terms perswade you into our communion . our profession of faith ye will acknowledge to be the antient catholick , and apostolick creed : i know your principal prejudice is against the succession of our bishops , and the authority of our priesthood : but let me beseech you to do so much right to us , and so much justice to your selves , as impartially to peruse mr mason's vindication of the ministry of the church of england , and if his transcript of those acts , and monuments of our church will not satisfie you , let some of your subtilest jesuits convict that author of falshood , or imposture ; and i will acknowledge that we are no catholick church , and you no schismaticks . there are many of your religion , persons of great honour , and estates in this kingdom , who may easily have the advantage to view , and examine the original records of the consecration of our english bishops , in that great crisis of our reformation ; and methinks in so weighty a matter , where your estates ( if not some raster interest ) are highly concern'd , ye should be strictly inquisitive , and not so blindly acquiesce in a popular mistake , and jesuitical delusion . in the mean time i charge you with the guilt of schism , in dividing from the church of england ; and if you think your selves injur'd by this indictment , let any of your romish champions be the doctor 's second , and publish a plea for your vindication ; and though i am none of the worthies of england , yet i will engage for a reply . if any of you shall think fit to require it , i dare undertake to prove , that the canons of the romish church , do no more oblige any subject of england , than our statute laws do bind the poles , or moscovites : and that it is as great a disorder and impertinence , for the bishop of rome to excommunicate any of the people of england , as it were for the lord chief justice of england , to outlaw don juan of austria . and now , reader , i leave you to enjoy your humour , to be candid , or clamorous as your fancy inclines you . to be wounded with the arrows of bitter words , is a very easie kind of martyrdom , and say what you please , i am resolv'd to be unconcern'd , and subscribe my self , your christian friend , r. c. worthy sir , i not long since receiv'd from the hand of a non-conforming pastor ( by way of answer to my impeaching him of schism ) this tract intitul'd a plea for the non-conformists , tending to justifie them against the clamorous charge of schism : by a doctor of divinity , whom the dissenters call dr. owen . and whether i may attribute it , to the slighting or carelesness of our clergie , i know not : but as yet i have neither seen or heard of an answer to it . sir , the true friendship i have for you , and your abilities , which i am no stranger unto , prompts me to put this plea into your handling , and beg your animadversions upon it : supposing the doctor has much wandered from that notion of schism deliver'd down to us from the primitive fathers ; the sense of which sacred priests , i shall alwayes rather espouse in any point i find so clearly determin'd by them , than the crude and partial ( if not enthusiastick ) writings of some moderns , whose heads seem rather flatus't with a prejudic'd interest , than ballac'd with an apostolick sobriety . when i reflect upon this intrigue of the present dissenters from the church of england , in confounding the notion of schism with that of heresie , and by that jejune project would evade that scandal of being schismaticks ; a discrimination esteemed so odious and perilous among all good catholicks in all ages of the christian church ; i can fancy no other reason they can have than this , ( viz. ) lest their proselytes and followers should be justly affrighted at the dangerous guilt of schism and separation ; and consult their return to that fold which they have deserted , which is certainly their safest interest . another stratagem , which has not been less useful for them than the former , is their contemning an apostolical succession of priesthood ; and thereby lessening the hazard of a schismatick condition in the opinion of the people : this unchristian humour they continually instill into the populacy , and inforce it with this anti-apostolick maxim , that there is no difference between a priest and a laick , but that the first reads the prayers of the church , and preaches morally , as they call it ; and the other is gifted with continual revelations : for that , they must mean ; if any thing , by praying by the spirit in their notion . i must confess i am as yet unconverted to these opinions , and have an awful respect to your sacred order , and i could be as easily proselyted to atheism , as to think a knipperdolling or an hugh peters were as true priests of the living god , as a tertullian or a chrysostom . sir , as an obedient son of the church of england , and a loyal subject to my soveraign , and so oblig'd to be very solicitous of the welfare of church and state , give me leave to sigh out some thoughts which have been and are afflictive to my solitudes , and may detect , if not the causes , at least the encouragements of our schisms . when i see the admir'd providence of our indulgent prince ( so eminently expressed in his royal amnestie and act of oblivion ) for the obliterating all animosities and rancours ( which might still ferment in the hearts of men so diametrically opposite , and who had espoused cases as contradictory as best and worst , ) contemned and flouted by an undutiful and unchristian humour of persisting in the same stubborness wherewith they have check'd two glorious princes , and mated a third ( god bless the fourth ) and wherewith they brought upon our church and kingdom , the late horrid and lamentable confusions ; indignation prompts me to think , that sincere religion cannot reside in an ungrateful heart ; nor true piety and loyalty , where there are no symptoms of their repentance . and let me appeal to common sense and reason , what a frightful face of government there would appear in this nation ; if all his majesties evil-disposed subjects should as boldly resolve to perpetrate all those crimes prohibited by the common and statute laws of this realm , as the dissenters do temerariously transgress , or fraudulently evade those statutes relating to conformity . when i see some of your sacred order fly at a dignity , a bishoprick , and when they have truss'd it , quarry and prune themselves upon it , and live as if a diocess were only designed to gorge and aggrandize the bishop , and he not concern'd to be a faithful shepherd to his flock , but negligent , if not wholly careless in no small part of his episcopal function and paternal charge ( witness the omission of that solemn office of confirmation : ) nor obliged to moderate over , and inspect the manners of his inferiour clergie , who are in law but his curates , and whose vices and disorders reflect a blot upon himself , and a scandal to the church ; then i think , the longer time runs , its sand will be the fuller of dust , and i am ready to renounce my philosphy , and believe that gold may rust ; and we have too many rosy-crucians in divinity to make their remarques . when our parochial clergie shall out of good nature , tepidity or perjury omit , if not all , at least some part of the divine service , to curry their males , and coaks their females : when to please a weak sister , the cross after baptism must not be used , and for a bribe the sacrament shall be administred to a sitting bumkin , and the priest shall civilly be from home , when a thing departed is to have the burial of an ass : when every parish shall have a singular directory , and every waxen priest shall assume a papism to dispense with oath , canons and statutes , and the diocesan shall be demurely compos'd into a posture of consent with closed eyes and folded arms , are we then like to be blest with one faith and one way ? when too many of our nobility and gentry shall assume that honour and glory to list themselves in , and be reputed sons of our church of england , but by their profaneness , debauchery and prodigious vice , live antipodes to that holy profession , and act below the dictates of uneducated nature ; then i think this must be influential upon the manners of the populacy , and create an inclination to schism , if not an absolute contempt of religion in them , who are commonly capable of no other direction in their morals and piety , than the vertuous examples of their superiours . when too many of our nobility and gentry shall desert their antient seats and countrey interests , to enjoy an urbane effeminacy , immerge in the gulfs of luxury , and to enervate in the venereal laboratories of the town , with the greater security to their names , and less observation of the world ; this must be reputed no small cause of schism in their tenants and dependents , who in many lordships and places of the nation want nothing more , than the antique hospitality of england , and the orthodox practice of their landlords and patrons , to secure them against the cantings of the wolves , and to shame them into a conformable obedience : and were it seriously consider'd , how easie and natural the motion is from immorality and atheism , to disloyalty and civile apostasie , these monsters would be proscrib'd the courts of princes , to learn humanity among flocks and herds . but when the sacred name of jesus shall be mouth'd by the most vicious persons , to disguise an ugly , perhaps a treasonous design , and novi homines , men of yesterday , shall dare to trifle with that scepter which dignified them , and problem the right of their prince in the face of his throne ; when englishmen shall italianize and shoot those envenom'd arrows , their filthy pasquils to wound their prince in his reputation , which is the soul of his throne : o , then i think , if it awakens not all the sentinels of the government , sure they are in their dead sleep or infatuated for destruction . when i consider the ill-boding circumstances attending the church of england , her prodigious rents , her assiduous and impudent adversaries , accompanied perhaps with too much supinity in some of her most principal members , and when it comes into my mind , that miracles are ceased too , then each moment spur on my thoughts to expect ; when religion ( now on tiptoes to be gone ) should turn her back upon us , and that the ultimate failure of the faith is at hand , ready to be the harbinger to the catholick doom . but , sir , not to trouble your more serene meditations with such melancholy reflections , give me leave to alarm you to muster your notions , and by your animadversions upon this doctor , undeceive the deluded multitude in this weighty subject of schism , the dam of our mischiefs , and which threaten the ruine of our church , and with that the unhinging that excellent temper of government which has been the envy of the nations . sir , i am yours , &c. w. c. honoured sir , that kingship and episcopacy , have been the antient and continued government of this nation in state and church , ever since our primitive christianity , is evident from undoubted records : but the gentlemen of our new english interest , mock at the two old grandsires , monarchy and hierarchy , and begin to hope that they are come to their decrepit age , and not far from a grave , and they are preparing for their funeral . it is now scandalous to be loyal to our prince , or regular to the church . you will be thought a mean-spirited gentleman for expressing any regard to a minister of religion . and you have no way to redeem your honour , but either to turn atheist , or list your self a member of the new interest . and now sir , can it be reconcil'd to friendship , to ship your friend , when the clouds look black and threaten a storm ? but since you are as kind to me as you are to your self ; and are pleas'd to embarque with me , i am resolv'd to adventure , and am prepar'd for tempest , and that worst of hurricanes , the madness of the people . i think it highly necessary to demonstrate our non-conformists to be schismaticks : for though meer state interest may legitimate many severities against those persons and principles that are antipodes to the establish'd government ; yet if that were truth , which the doctor pretends to prove , that the sectaries of england were as much in the family of jesus , or in the communion of the catholick church , as the church of england ; it would puzzle my reason , to make a substantial apology for our penal laws . but if we can make it evident , that these men walk disorderly , and are separatists from the catholick church , it will then appear , that our laws are so far from rigor or persecution , that they are more charitable provisions , and only design'd to compell men to come in to that society , where their eternal interest will be most rationally and manifestly secur'd . when i first open'd the doctor' s plea you sent me , mine eye chanc'd upon a very pleasant passage , to this effect , viz. that thegreek church call the church of rome , schismatick , and the church of rome return the schismatick upon the greek church . the church of england make the romish church the schismatick , and the church ofrome charge the schism upon the church ofengland . — again , the church of england call her dissenters schismaticks , and the dissenters think the church to be schismaticks from them ; and so we have call'd one another schismaticks round : and therefore schism is but vox & praeterea nihil , nothing but a meer noise and nick-name , which every party cast upon all them who are not of their society . but let us try the strength of this argument , by translating it to another circulating word , and that is infidelity . the mahometan calls himself musalman , which my persic dictionary assures me , signifies faithful or believer in god ; yet we christians call the mahometans infidels ; and they call us unbelievers . we call the jews infidels , and they return the same name upon us and the mahometans too . both christian , jew , and mahomentan pronounce all pagans to be infidels , and ten to one , but they are as stout and peremptory as the rest of mortals , and think all mankind infidels but themselves . thus the whole world have call'd one another infidels round , and therefore infidelity is but a meer empty noise , and there is no such thing in the world as a true religion . i appeal to any sober judgement , if there be not as much logick in this , as there was in the other . i hope it will be an easie discovery , to find out the square of the doctor 's circle , and to fix the notion of schism upon a certain basis . and therefore sir , in obedience to your request , i shall discuss that great question , whether the non-conformists in england meeting together for the worship of god in places distinct from the parochial churches , are not schismaticks ? to this i shall answer in the affirmative , and shall consider this separation , first , with respect to the whole catholick church . secondly , with relation to the church of england . first , to be a member of the catholick church , there is required a double unity : first , an unity of faith , or doctrine : a total separation from this , we grant to be apostasie ; a disowning any one fundamental article , makes a man a heretick . but in this does not consist the formal notion of schism . secondly , there is requir'd an unity of order or government , which st. cyprian calls unitas ecclesiastica . now a separation from this unity , hath the formality of schism . and for a right understanding of this , i must look back to the first origine of this unity . the holy jesus , the great author and founder of our religion , was sent of god , and all power in heaven and earth committed to him . now before his ascension , that he might not leave his disciples to the end of the world , to be governed by every pretender to revelation , which would have exposed his kingdom upon earth , to eternal confusions and impostures , he solemnly ordains and consecrates the apostles his immediate delegates upon earth . john 20. 22. as my father sent me , even so send i you : by vertue of which commission , the power of ordaining , governing and conferring orders did rest only in the apostles . they took care to continue this succession , and therefore timothy was by the apostles ordain'd bishop of ephesus , and titus of crete , and both invested with power of jurisdiction and conferring orders , as is evident from st. paul's epistles directed to them : and though there were many presbyters in the dioceses of ephesus and crete , yet none had authority to ordain elders or priests , but only timothy and titus . linus by apostolick consecration succeeded the apostles in the chair of rome . symeon governed the church of jerusalem , or the diocess of palestine next after st. james . anianus succeeded st. mark in the church of alexandria . and this succession was propagated with so much care and certainty , that irenaeus tells us , he could name all the successors of the apostles in the several apostolick churches unto his dayes : habemus annumerare eos , qui ab apostolis instituti sunt episcopi in ecclesiis , & successores eorum , usque ad nos . and this line of apostolick succession of bishops hath continued through all ages of the church to our present times . so that he who is out of this line of apostolick succession , and exercises any ministerial office without the commission of episcopal ordination , is but a lay-impostor , and a schismatick from the catholick church . and all other societies of christian people , who totally withdraw themselves from the government of their bishops , who are the apostles successors , and from the ministry of those presbyters lawfully set over them by episcopal ordination and institution , and cast themselves into any other model of government , are guilty of schism . this was the formal notion of schism in the sense of the antient church . irenaeus bishop of lugdunum , who convers'd with polycarpus the disciple of st. john , may in reason be allowed to understand the primitive and apostolick notion of schism , better than our doctor at the distance of sixteen hundred years . he in his book adversus hereses , exhorts the christian world to hearken only to those priests , who were in the communion of the catholick church ; and who those are , he there describes , quapropter eis , qui in ecclesia sunt presbyteris obaudire oported iis , qui successionem habent ab apostolis sicut ostendimus , qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum secundum placitum patris accepêrunt — reliquos vero qui absistunt à principali successione , & quocunque loco colliguntur , suspectos habere vel quasi haereticos & malae sententiae , vel quasi scindentes & elatos , & sibi placentes , aut rursus ut hypocritas quaestus gratia & vanae gloriae hoc operantes : qui autem scindunt & separant unitatem ecclesiae , eandem quam hieroboam poenam percipiunt à deo. ignatius the second bishop of antioch in succession from st. peter , in his epistles ad trallianos , ad smyrnenses , and in those to the philippians , ephesians and philadelphians , frequently charges them to keep themselves in the unity and communion of the christian church , by a regular obedience to the bishops , and by communication with the priests , who were set over them by the authority of episcopal order : and to disobey those bishops and their presbyters , and to separate from them , is in those epistles charg'd with schism . athanasius brands ischyras for a schismatick , and justifies the charge from this reason , that ischyras did usurp a ministerial authority without a regular ordination from the bishops of the catholick church , and gathered to himself a distinct congregation separate from the jurisdiction of the bishop of alexandria , in whose province he lived . st. cyprian in his fortieth epistle ad populum carthaginensem de quinque presbyteris schismaticis , exhorts them to have no communion with those who had divided themselves from their bishops ; for he tells them in that epistle , that to be sine episcopis , was to be extra ecclesiam . and in his book de unitate , he gives us this notion of schism , contemptis episcopis & derelictis dei sacerdotibus constituere aliud altare , or conventicula diversa constituere : that it was schism to contemn and forsake the bishops , and priests of god , and to set up another altar , or to settle distinct conventicles . and this he accounts so foul a crime , that he tells us in the same discourse , talis , etiamsi occisi in confessione fuerint , macula ista nec sanguine abluitur , inexpiabilis & gravis culpa discordiae nec passione purgatur , that martyrdom it self cannot expiate the guilt of schisim . and when maximus , urbanus , sydonius and macarius return'd from the novatian faction into the communion of the church , they express it thus , episcopo nostro pacem fecimus , they had reconcil'd themselves to the bishop : and this was enough to assure st. cyprian , they had renounc'd their schism , and were restor'd to the churches communion . i will end this with the assertion of st. augustine , radix christianae societatis per sedes apostolorum , & successiones episcoporum , certâ per orbem propagatione diffunditur : i. e. the root or foundation of unity or communion in the christian church , is founded in the several seats of the apostles , and diffused through the christian world , by the certain propagation or succession of bishops . therefore in the judgement of st. augustine , all those persons , or societies that have divided themselves from the bishops and priests of the apostolick succession , are but wild plants , and no branches of the catholick stock . i could fill many pages more with testimonies of the same nature ; but such numerous quotations would look like pedantick impertinence : and i doubt not , but those authorities i have already mentioned , will perswade you to believe , that a total separation from the orders and government of bishops , was constantly adjudg'd to be schism by the concurrent sentiments of the antient church . and now sir , having examined these testimonies , i may proceed to sentence : that seeing the teachers of our non-conforming congregations in england were never regularly ordain'd to any ministerial function by the hands of the bishops ( deriving their authority from apostolick succession ) and seeing their leaders and their blind proselytes have wholly withdrawn themselves , from the conduct & government of episcopal authority , i shall therefore adventure to pronounce them schismaticks , not only from the church of england , but from the whole corporation of the catholick church . therefore that which the doctor so magisterially asserts at the end of his seventeenth page is no axiom of divinity ; for i have already prov'd , that a man may be schismatick from the whole catholick church on earth without heresie or apostasie . the premises being considered , will furnish us with an answer to that passionate harangue , pag. 21. do we not own christ , his gospel , the same points of faith , the same acts of worship , where is the separation then ? this st. augustine tells us , was the same plea of the donatists , and might have been urged by the novatians , and schismatick presbyters of carthage , but it would not acquit them from schism , nor will it vindicate our english sectaries . corah and his confederate mutineers were neither hereticks nor apostates , but men of the same creed with moses and aaron : their crime was the violating that subordination which god had appointed , and not submitting themselves to the superiour authority of the priesthood . and sir , it may be worth your observation , that this plea of the doctor , and that of the hebrew rebels have the same sense ; for just thus they plead , numb . 16. 3. all the congregation is holy , every one of them : that is , in the doctor 's phrase , do we not own moses , his laws , the same points of faith , the same acts of worship ? but this plausible plea would not prevail , nor mitigate the provocation ; for god punished one schism with another , the earth rent , and swallowed them up , and with open mouth taught the rest of the church to keep unity and order , as well as the profession of a true religion . therefore the answer is very easie to the doctor 's ruffling question ; do we not own christ , his gospel , the same points of faith , the same acts of worship , where is the separation then ? why sir , the separation is in dividing from the communion of all the bishops and episcopal presbyters , who in a constant line succeeding the apostles , have only a just and regular authority to govern and guide the christian church . the doctor in the beginning of pag. 34. tells us , that a controversie among them of the same communion is the chief , if not the only notion of schism that the scripture gives us . i confess , the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 schism in its general notion signifies any manner of separation or division ; and therefore i do acknowledge , that those dissentions that were within the bowels of the apostolick and catholick church were called schisms , both in the scripture , and in the writings of the antient fathers : but this does not hinder , but that the same word may be used to signifie a separation from the catholick church ; for if a wound in the body may be called a schism , sure amputation or the cutting off from the body is the greatest rent and schism in the world. for though there were indeed divisions in the church of corinth , where some were for paul , and some for apollos , and some for cephas : this at the worst was but a faction or a breach of charity , but it was not properly schism in the highest sense of the word ; for they still setled themselves under the government and ministry of the apostles , or some presbyters ordained by the hands of the apostles . but those conventicles that crept into houses , and formed assemblies distinct from the communion of the apostolick church , those that heaped to themselves teachers , which , as the phrase imports , were not set over them by apostolick order and institution ; those that despised dominion , and sake evil of those dignities which did superintend the government of the church : these men st. jude tell us , were those that did separate themselves , that is , were schismaticks ; and just so are their brethren the sectaries of england . before i proceed to the next enquiry that concerns the schism from the church of england , it will be necessary to state the right notion of the catholick church according to the sense of the antient councils and fathers . the doctor and his complices are for comprehension , and give us a very wide notion of the catholick church ; for they will have all men that profess the name of christ , though in some things hereticks and schismaticks too , yet to be included within the boundaries of the catholick church . but i observe , the antients would not endure this comprehension ; for they reckoned none to be in the communion of the catholick church , but those who confessed the common faith delivered to the saints , and kept themselves under the orders and government of the bishops , who were the apostles successors : and therefore oft-times in councils and antient epistles we find this superscription , to the catholick church in antioch , to the catholick church of alexandria , to the catholick church of rome , &c. this still being used in contradistinction from the novatians , arrians and donatists , which the antient church look'd upon as schismaticks and extra ecclesiam . now having advanc'd thus far , the way is prepared for the second enquiry , whether our non-conformists are guilty of schism from the church of england ? and i doubt not but to prove the affirmative . the church of england adhere to that creed which was delivered by the apostles , professed by the antient primitive church , and confirm'd by the first four general councils ; it hath preserv'd the unity of government by a succession of bishops in the apostolick line , as appears from the undoubted archives and records of england : therefore we are secured that it is in the unity of the catholick church , and a most excellent part of it . now as our christianity obliges us to be members of that body of christ the catholick church : so the eternal reasons of peace and order bind us to communicate with that part of the catholick church , in which our lot hath plac'd us , except it can manifestly appear , that that part is so corrupted that we cannot communicate with it without evident hazard of our salvation . it were an unpardonable disorder , for a native of england dwelling in london , to contemn the laws of our prince , and to govern himself by the placaets of the united provinces : and it were as great a confusion , for those who live within the jurisdiction of the church of england , to submit themselves to the orders and government of rome or geneva . before the papal usurpation of universal monarchy , the patriarchs of the christian church had their distinct limits and jurisdictions : the patriarch of constantinople had his peculiar primacy or regiment , and was not to intermeddle with the province of alexandria ; and so the bishop of rome had his peculiar jurisdiction , and was allowed no inspection over constantinople , antioch or alexandria ; and these distinct boundaries were fixed by a canon of the council of nice , and because it con●utes both the papal supremacy and puritanical anarchy , i will give you the copy of that canon . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that is , let the antient customs be in force ; let the bishop of alexandria have the jurisdiction of aegypt , libya and pentapolis , as likewise the bishop of rome was accustomed to have in his province , and so let the churches of antioch and other provinces keep their peculiar priviledges . and so the christians dwelling under these distinct patriarchates were obliged to a respective obedience to their peculiar provincial : and to divide themselves from their proper patriarch or bishop was accounted schism in the antient church . timothy being constituted bishop of all the diocess of ephesus , the christians residing within that precinct were obliged by the rules of order to submit themselves to his peculiar inspection , and it had been schism to have disobeyed him , or separated themselves from his jurisdiction . st. ambrose observed this decorum himself , as he tells us by st. augustin , in an epistle of his ad januarium , cum romae sum jejuno sabbato , cum hic sum non jejuno : and so st. augustin counsels januarius , sic etiam tu ad quam forte ecclesiam veneris , ejus morem serva ; which plainly concludes , that christian peace and order requires , that we should conform to the rites and canons of that church , in whose jurisdiction we live . the five presbyters of carthage were by st. cyprian sentenced for schismaticks , because being within the diocess of carthage , and so under his inspection , they notwithstanding gathered to themselves assemblies , and exercised ministerial offices without his authority . and for the same reason athanasius accused ischyras of schism , for modelling a congregation in mareoles without any subjection or dependance upon him the bishop of alexandria , unto whose jurisdiction that countrey belonged : for he shews us his title in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i. e. all the presbyters of this province have their peculiar cures , or parishes , but all the churches of this region are under the jurisdiction of the bishop of alexandria . and the very same thing epiphanius tells us in his second book adversus haereses , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. that there were several parochial churches , in which the inhabitants might assemble with greater convenience ; and these congregations were under the ministery of peculiar presbyters : but all these presbyters and their respective churches were governed by the superintendence of the arch-bishop of alexandria : and this was the universal model of unity and order in all other provinces of the catholick church . now the arch-bishops of canterbury and york have as much jurisdiction over the christians in england , as athanasius had over the province of alexandria , or st. cyprian in the diocess of carthage : for beside the right of church-government which their succession from the apostles give them , they are impowr'd to exercise their jurisdiction by the laws of our christian prince : and therefore those societies of christians living under the jurisdiction of the arch-bishops and bishops of england , and yet do separate from their communion and government , are schismaticks from the church of england . to conclude this , if the novatians and donatists , if the five presbyters of carthage , if ischyras in alexandria were schismaticks ; if from the ascension of our lord to his second advent , there was , or can be a schismatick ; then the sectaries of england are schismaticks , not only from the church of england , but from the whole catholick church . having thus stated the antient notion of schism , and found it a henous impiety , though our non-conformists sport with it as an ecclesiastical scarecrow ; i shall next do them the justice to examine the doctors plea , and see how well he vindicates them from the guilt of schism . first , he denyes that there is any such creature as a national stated governing church of england . if the doctor means by all these rumbling epithets of stated , national , governing , organical church of england , that there is no such distinct organical church in england , that is , a separate body from the catholick church , i am then of his opinion : but if he means , that the bishops of england have no power of government over the christians in england , it is a very foul mistake , to speak in the modestest phrase : for i have already prov'd , that the arch-bishops and bishops have as much jurisdiction in their respective provinces and dioceses of england , as any other patriarchs and bishops of the catholick church ever had in theirs : and if the act of uniformity be a law , i am sure there is such an establish'd being as a national church . in pag. 30. his gravity drolls , and gives us a very merry argument to prove that there is no such creature as a national church of england : for , sayes he , whoso will erect a stated national governing church in england , must find us an officer clothed with authority to excommunicate from michael ' s mount in cornwall , to carlisle in berwick . now sir , let this pass for a piece of wit , though it is as wide from reason , as cornwall from berwick . what though the bishop of antioch could not excommunicate from antioch to constantinople , and from thence to the borders of persia , must there therefore be no governing church in greece ? and might the christians in antioch by that logick separate themselves from the communion and jurisdiction of their proper patriarchs without schism ? if our author could have prov'd , that there were any provinces , or natives of england , that were de jure exempt from the canons of this church , and the jurisdiction of the english bishops , then there had been something of argument : but if the doctor for contumacy and disorder should be excommunicated from church of england in berwick , i am sure without absolution , de jure he could not communicate with any assembly of the church in england , though he travail'd from berwick to carlisle , and from thence to mount michael in cornwall : and this i fancy , does strongly conclude , that the church of england is such a part of the catholick church , which hath a proper and peculiar jurisdiction over all the christians in this kingdom . our doctor , pag. 10. sect . 12. owns it as a confess'd principle , that every individual member of the church catholick visible is bound in duty both to god and his own soul , to joyn himself to some particular society of christians , with which he may enjoy all the ordinances of god , so as may be for his souls advantage . well then , why do they not communicate with the church of england , where all the ordinances of god are observ'd and solemniz'd with as much gravity and faithfulness as in any other part of the catholick church ? to this he answers pag. 11. that the business is so stated by the act of uniformity , that they cannot communicate with us without doing what they judge to be sinful . there is nothing can justly be called sinful , but what transgresses some manifest law of god or nature : and could the doctor have prov'd , that any thing practised or enjoyn'd by the church of england , did violate any of those divine rules , his plea had been allowed , and his party might vindicate their non-conformity . but to transgress a plain law of god , to disobey the orders of our governours , and yet to give us no better reason for it , than to say , they fancy the things are sinful , is so far from excusing , that it aggravates the guilt . for , first , their disobedience is an affront to their governours , and then the doing this only upon the account of their own judgement or fancy , is an affront to god : for private conscience to usurp the soveraignty of god , and to lay such divine obligations upon the soul and mind , which god never impos'd . the nature and guilt of this disobedience is exactly represented by the story of the young prophet , 1 kings 13. he was sent to prophesie against the altar in bethel ; now jeroboam having cast off all the priests and levites of the aaronical line , and erected a new model of religion , therefore that the young prophet might have no communion with so great a schismatick , god charges him expresly , vers . 9. to eat no bread , nor drink water in that place : now an old prophet that dwelt in bethel pretends a new revelation , and that with such cunning delusion , as he prevailed with the young prophet to go back and dine with him at bethel ; but that entertainment cost him his life , verse 24. the reason of this severity was very just and equitable ; for god had given him an express command not to eat in that place , and that charge was reveal'd to him by some such manifest way of divine revelation , that he was as much ascertain'd , it was the word of the lord , as he was assur'd of his own being : and therefore he was justly punish'd for disobeying a plain command , and hearkning to a pretended revelation , which was not personally reveal'd to him , and of the truth of which he could not be so much secur'd , as he was of his former vision . thus obedience to governours in general , is as manifest a law of god as was ever given to the world , and we are in no particular to disobey them , except we can produce another divine law of equal evidence and authority which prohibits our obedience in that particular ; or else i believe from the process of the former story , it is displeasing to god to transgress such a plain certain law , without a manifest prohibition from heaven , but only out of niceness of fancy or private judgement . and if the church should part with all those things which dissenters judge to be sinful , there could be neither church nor government : for we must throw off our hoods and surplice to gratifie the scrupulous puritan ; we must strip our selves stark-naked to satisfie the fanaticism of the adamites ; nay , we must part not only with rites and ceremonies , but the whole liturgie and hierarchy of the church , because some fancy them to be anti-christian ; nay , the creed is not secure , we must expunge the article of christs divinity to humour the socinians ; we must blot out the propitiation of christ , the doctrine of the trinity , and the resurrection of the body , to gratifie the quakers : and so we must not only deface the front and out-side of the temple , but even raze it to the ground , because it does not please the eye of these men of babel : nay , we must renounce our reason and our senses too to satisfie the papists in the doctrine of transubstantiation , and so by this method , at length we must neither be men nor christians . but let us put the case at the worst , and suppose what these men fancy , were really true ; that there were some things enjoyn'd by the church , which were really sinful ; i confess this would be a difficult and unhappy circumstance , but yet it would not justifie a total separation , and the erecting of new modell'd churches ; for i have prov'd before , that we are bound by the eternal reasons of peace and order to communicate with those bishops , and that part of the catholick church under which we live : and if it should so happen , that some things evidently sinful were enjoyn'd by this church , then we might remove into some other part of the catholick church , that were of a sounder constitution . but if we continued within the jurisdiction of this church , i think we should be oblig'd to communicate with it in publick confession of faith , in devotions and sacraments , and as far as we could without manifest sin . we might with peace and patience enjoy a pure conscience in our own family , but it could never be lawful by any rule of christianity to make a total separation , and to set up another form of church-government , in opposition to that under whose jurisdiction we live . but mr. h. in the appendix hath discover'd a new argument to vindicate the non-conformists in upholding conventicles distinct from the assemblies of the church of england : the summ of his new invention amounts to thus much . that necessity is laid upon them by divine law to preach the gospel ; as for their communion with our churches , it is but an humane establishment : now seeing they cannot preach in our assemblies , the necessity of a divine law obliges them to teach in conventicles . now sir , to encounter this gigantick reason , we must enquire the truth of his first postulatum , whether any such necessity be laid upon these men to preach the gospel ? indeed i have met with a geneva divine , that stoutly believes , that necessity was laid upon cain to be a murderer , and upon judas to be a traytor : now i confess , if this divinity be true , they may be under the unavoidable fate of schism and rebellion , and then we ought to pity and excuse them , and lay the guilt in heaven . but i will suppose mr. h. to be too good and modest for to accuse god , to acquit himself . and the necessity he pretends , is founded in their call to the ministry . now sir , there will be a necessity for us to enquire the truth of this divine call : for the parliament were a very jewish sanhedrim to forbid these men to speak openly in the name of jesus , if they were certainly sent of god. but i shall ask them the same question concerning their mission , that our saviour asked the jews concerning john's baptism , was it from heaven , or of men ? if they shall say from men , then they must shew us their orders from the hands of the bishops , the apostles successors , who only have authority with titus to ordain elders or priests in every city : if they say from heaven , they must then bring us very serious credible witnesses to assure us , that they were called by a voice from the clouds , as st. paul was in his way to damascus : and yet if this were done , we live in such a sceptick age , that men would not credit the boast of revelation without the credentials of a miracle . and i confess i cannot blame the christian world for this suspecting humour ; for so many impostures and delusions have been imposed upon the world by this pretence , that 't is prudence not to be too credulous . now sir , you may observe , that these fanciful visions and revelations have strangely swelled these men ; for they are no less in their own opinion , than the great apostles of christ , and therefore with st. paul , they cry out , necessity is laid upon us , and wo be unto us if we preach not the gospel : that is , sir , that the kingdom of england are still jews and barbarians , and except these chief apostles preach the gospel , there is no hopes of their conversion from gentilism or judaism . nay , pag. 5 , 6. he tells us , that there is such a necessity for these men to preach in conventicles , that the everlasting welfare of thousands of mens souls depend upon it . wo , wo to the king and parliament , that should dare to stop the mouths of these men , upon whose breath depends the salvation of thousands of souls ! why sir , this is far more mischievous , than shutting up the exchequer , breaking the east-india company , or spoiling all the trade of england . but sir , i hope this dreadful harangue will not fright you , for all is but noise and canting : for i dare assure you , the execution of the law will no way hinder the advancement of the gospel , nor hazard one soul in england : for christianity will be soberly preach'd in england , though all these men be silenc'd . and besides , i should think by the principles of calvinism , that the salvation of souls were more fix'd and fatal , than to depend upon the silence or preaching of a few non-conforming ministers . you know sir , the decree of peremptory election was dated long before that reprobate act of uniformity , and therefore there is no fear of losing one of the elect , though these men be struck dumb : and as for the reprobates , all the oratory of dr. o. and mr. h. and the rest of those mighty men can never alter their sadder fate . and therefore i think i may conclude from their own divinity , that there is no necessity laid upon them to preach the gospel . mr. h. solemnly propounds this weighty question , which will be most for the glory of god , either for the non-conforming teachers to preach the gospel to their meetings , or to keep the union of their parish churches ? to which question there is a very easie answer ; for no doubt , the god of order is more glorified by unity , peace and obedience to our governours , than by disorder and confusion . and therefore i shall conclude this by inverting the argument : they may live in the communion of the church , without the least hazard of their salvation ; and necessity is laid upon them to obey their governours ; and wo be unto them if they preach the gospel in conventicles , and by walking disorderly , trouble the peace and order both of church and state. but there is one plea more for this schism or separation , ( call it which you please ) and that is cunningly insinuated in that famous definition of schism by mr. hales cited pag. 17. schism is an unnecessary separation from that part of the visible church , of which we once were members . that their separation is unnecessary , let the doctor himself judge , who pag. 9. tells us , they differ from us only in the insignificant fringes and laces of forms and ceremonies . now i fancy , it were a very unnecessary and undutiful thing , for a son to disown and desert his mother , only because the fringe and lace of her garment did not please his eye . but the mysterie lyes in the last words of the distinction , a separation from that part of the church , of which we once were members . now sir , there are vast numbers of persons in england who were never baptized by the ministery of the church of england , or had any communion with her , and then by the judgement of mr. hales cannot be charg'd with schism or separation from her . but this is already answer'd , for i have prov'd , that they are bound in duty to live in communion with those bishops and priests , or that part of the catholick church , under which they reside : and if they never were in the communion of this church , they have been the longer in disorder and disobedience , and that is a very ill method of excusing the crime . by this sophistry schism can only be the sin of the first generation : novatus and his contemporaries that first departed from the communion of the catholick church , were indeed schismaticks , but then those who were baptiz'd and educated by that faction , were never in the communion of the catholick church , and so by this argument were free from schism , and so downwards from generation to generation . now this looks like magick , for it teaches us an art how to split the church into a thousand pieces , and to continue this division for ever ; and yet in a little while there should be no dis-union : for it is only the adventure of the first authors to break off from the catholick church , but then as many as they propagate to the end of the world are no schismaticks , because they never had any personal communion . now sir , having asserted that the unity of the catholick church consists not only in the unity of faith , but in a succession of bishops and priests , and a regular obedience to their inspection and conduct ; give me leave to reflect and consider what direful conclusions our adversaries may draw from this notion . first , this will be accused of too much kindness to the church of rome : for they having continued their succession of bishops from st. peter , this will acquit them from schism , and place them within the body of the catholick church . i hope sir , it will not offend , if we be as kind to the pope as we are to the devil , and allow him his due : no doubt , the church of rome is in the communion of the catholick church , but yet this is no argument for any to desert the church of england , and remove to that of rome ; for our apostolick succession of bishops is as authentick as theirs , and our doctrine more pure , primitive and catholick ; and therefore it is irrational for the romish church to accuse us of schism : for whatever they can justly plead for their unity , will equally establish ours with the catholick church . i cannot better represent the present state of the catholick church , than by an allusion to the jewish temple : the church of england , we are able to prove , is the purest part of the catholick church , being most refined from error and superstition , and therefore that may be resembled to the sanctum sanctorum ; the greek church , though something defiled , yet still preserving the apostolick faith and succession of patriarchs and presbyters , may be compar'd to the middle temple ; the church of rome , like the outward á court , is most profan'd with the tables of the money-changers , and defil'd by abominable superstitions ; but yet though it be filthy , it is a part of the building , and within the area of the temple : but for any to desert the church of england , to communicate with that of rome , is such a frantick humour as for a man to quit the neatest appartment , and exchange for the most sluttish room in the same house . secondly , that which will raise the greatest clamour is , that by this notion i unchurch all the forreign reform'd churches , who have no bishops of the catholick line to govern them , and ordain their ministers . to this i answer , that if any of the forreign churches have continued a succession of presbyters , who can derive their origination from episcopal ordination , it something lessens their dis-union , and gives them a remote alliance to the catholick church ; yet this is but private charity , and will not justifie them from schism by the canons of the antient church . but if any of them have a ministry , which have no other orders than their own usurpation or popular election , i know not how to acquit them from being schismaticks from the catholick church . and why do not the states of holland send their professors from leyden to london to receive consecration from the hands of our english bishops , and so engraft themselves again into the unity of the catholick church ? this they might easily do , without being oblig'd to any subscriptions to papal power or innovations ; if their omission of this arise from a contempt and abhorrence of episcopacy , i have no apology for them , neither would i be in the communion of those churches for all the bank of their east-india company . if any of the forreign churches be under such unhappy circumstances , that they can justly plead a necessity for having no bishops or priests of the apostolick succession , i have great compassion for them , and question not but god accepts them : for i receive that as an indisputable maxim , that where there is an inevitable necessity , there can be no guilt , though the fact it self be never so much irregular . but as for those churches in general , i have st. pauls charity , those that are without let god judge . thirdly , our squeamish ▪ sectaries are offended at the hierarchy of england , because it derives its succession from the bishops of rome . to which i have a double answer . first , that i make not the chair of rome the sole head , or origine of this catholick succession : for the episcopal or apostolick power of government and ordination was equally conferred upon all the apostles by the general commission of our high priest jesus : and therefore a succession of bishops and priests from any of these apostles , is enough to assert our unity with the catholick church . you know the twelve apostles are made the twelve foundation-stones of the christian temple ; and that part of the church which in a right line is built upon st. james , is as much in the unity and compact of the building , as that which stands upon st. peter . secondly , let us grant it , that we claim our succession from the line of rome , this will no way prejudice the episcopacy of england : i hope it was no dishonour to the holy jesus , that there were some of his genealogy that had no very good fame in the world ; it was sufficient , that by that line it was made evident our lord sprung from judah : and it is enough for the bishops of england to make it evident , they sprung from the apostles , and though some of their line were men of impious lives , or erroneous opinions , that no way lessened their power of propagation , nor invalidates the authority of our succession . thus i have consider'd schism as a separation from the bishops and priests of the apostolick line , and i see no reason to recant this notion . and therefore the appendixer is vastly mistaken , pag. 9. when he tells us , that if the parliament did legitimate their meetings , there were an end of the schism : for they might indeed by a law of toleration acquit them from all the temporal penalties of a separation , but it would exceed all the omnipotency of parliaments to discharge them from the guilt of schism : for they must first compel their teachers to take episcopal orders , and bring in all the conventicles into the communion of the catholick church , and place them under the government of their proper bishops , or else they would still be schismaticks , non obstante statuto . before i conclude , i will consider some grand absurdities that will follow from the denyal of this notion . first , the profound fanaticks in england clamour against the whole hierarchy , and will have the whole race of arch-bishops and bishops to be anti-christian . now sir , i 'le appeal to your judgement , if this be not blasphemy ; for then all the holy bishops that assembled in the first four general councils , that did assert the truth of christianity against pagans , jews and hereticks , and those many bishops of the antient church that headed the noble army of martyrs , must be damn'd as limbs of antichrist : nay , i cannot see how to defend timothy and titus from being anti-christian too ; and if these propagators of the christian faith , were anti-christian , where shall we enquire for christianity ? nay , this were a sure foundation for atheism ; for how can it be reconcil'd to the providence of a god , or the care of jesus , that he should plant a kingdom upon earth , with a promise of his presence and most careful providence , and yet to suffer his own kingdom to be enslav'd under the usurpation of an anti-christian yoke for sixteen hundred years together ? if this were true , too many wise men would conclude with the fool in the psalmist , that there is no god. secondly , if this succession of bishops and presbyters be not necessary to preserve our unity with the catholick church , then the keys must be thrown away , and excommunication is but an idle impertinence : for if there be not a certain body or corporation of christians known by a succession of power and priesthood from the apostles , how can it be known , when a person is cast out of the church ? for if the christian church be like a wilderness , where every family may pitch their tent where they please , there is no use of keyes to so wide a desert . thirdly , if this succession be not necessary , how can any rational man be ever satisfied in the administration of ministerial offices , as sacraments , and absolution , when there is no certain rule in the world by which he can rationally be assured of the regular authority of him that ministers . to conclude this , if this notion of unity be disown'd , then every conventicle is a true church ; and every man whom himself or the people fancy inspir'd must be receiv'd for a prophet ; and god must lose one of his titles , the god of order ; and confusion must be believ'd to be an ordinance of heaven . before i conclude , give me leave to reverse the doctor , and make his front the rear : ( sir , the phrase may be allow'd , ) for if i mistake not , the author has been a man of war , and understands very well the martial dialect . the harangue with which the doctor prefaces his plea , may justly be inverted . it was doubtless one of the greatest infelicities that ever befell the whole body of people in these three nations , that when in the year 1662. religion was so happily setled in faith , worship and government , according to the pattern of the antient catholick church in the first three centuries , and though this religion was ratified by the very hand of god , and the dry bones reviv'd by the miracle of an unexpected restitution , that yet there should be amongst us so many thousands of such perverse and sullen tempers , as not to be perswaded into the churches communion neither by law , reason , nor miracle . i cannot discern the doctors ingenuity in his second section , where he originates the act of uniformity in the anger , ambition and covetousness of church-men , and allows our governours not one grain of prudence or piety in the composure of that law. he first takes notice of the anger that rested in the bosom of church-men , who had been sufferers . methinks those men who had invaded the rights and revenues of the loyal clergy should have been content with the publick remission and charity of the act of indemnity , and not expect a miracle that the act of oblivion should quite destroy the church-mens memories : for these ploughers had ploughed such deep furrows upon the churches back , that it was impossible such impressions should soon wear out . the doves were driven from their nest , and their feathers of gold pluck'd off by those ravening vultures , and they were forc'd ( in the psalmists language ) to lye among the pots . and yet after all this , they must not so much as reflect upon all those rapines , nor express any prudent caution against these birds of prey , but they must presently be accused of having too much gall . his next charge is against the zeal of church-men to continue some bishops the repute of martyrs , who had suffer'd for the vigorous inforcing of some of the things now enjoyn'd . i observe , the doctor very warily covers the blood of charles the first , but dares dip his fingers in that of the bishops ; and yet i believe , the king as well as the bishop is left out from his martyrologie . had the bishops impos'd such rites and innovations as had been inconsistent with the reverence of religion and the nature of christianity ; had they urged such observances which had never been practis'd in the catholick church , nor required by the church of england : truly then the blood of arch-bishop laud should have no rubrick in my kalendar , for then he had suffered as an evil doer . but when those things required , were founded upon good reasons of religion , the custom of the antient church , and enjoyn'd by the just authority of this nation , i think the arch-bishop who had the hard fate to fall in doing of his duty , may ( in a sober sense ) be said to suffer for righteousness sake , and be allowed the honour of some kind of martyrdom . sir , i do here declare my self an eternal enemy to that religion , which can consecrate sacriledge , hallow rebellion , and sanctifie rapine and injustice . nor will i ever have any communion with those men , who canonize the most infamous traytors and murderers for saints , and condemn the best king and bishop in the world for malefactors : i don't see , but by the theorems of this jewish divinity , barabbas might have been sainted , and christ recorded for an impostor . the next accusation brought against church-men , is their desire of filthy lucre. i confess , covetousness is one of the greatest shames of humane reason , and that it is a most absurd impertinence to see spiritual men to fond upon the things of earth . but if that must be called a desire of filthy lucre , when a man perhaps a little too passionately desires and enjoyes his own just rights and properties , then sure it was the foulest lucre , for those men no invade the revenues of the church , to which they had no title , neither by the law of god , nor the statutes of the nation : sure none but a pharisee could have overseen so vast a beam in his own eye , and taken such great notice of a little spot in his brothers . the acts of uniformity and that against private meetings , are describ'd as severe and tragick , as if they had been the edicts of nero or dioclesian . i do believe , had the very same laws been by the roman emperours imposed upon the catholick church in the first three hundred years , they would have made a jubilee , and have been celebrated by the antient christians with hymns and hallelujahs : the sentiments of these men differ so much from the judgement of the antient christians , as if they were not of the same religion . and sir , you may remember some ordinances of parliament that did more bloody execution , than all the laws and canons royal of england . sure you have not forgot , when loyalty to our prince , and faithfulness to the establish'd religion was damn'd for malignancy ; and the loyal nobility , gentry and clergy of england were condemn'd to axes and halters , plunderings and sequestrations , prisons and banishment . and yet all these tragick scenes must have a silken curtain drawn over them , and must be interpreted as expresses of holy zeal , and rigour and persecution charg'd only upon the acts of uniformity , and that against conventicles . from pag. 3. to pag. 7. the doctor labours to assert the great numbers of non-conformists , and insinuates , that the prudence of our governours could never have passed the act of uniformity , if they had not been mis-informed , that the numbers of non-conformists were very inconsiderable . i confess , in state logick number is a weighty argument , and in politicks it must be thought imprudence , to disoblige a numerous party , who are able to affront their governours , and cast away their cords from them ; cum plurimi peccant impunes sunt : but whether the establishing parties and divisions by a law , do consist with the piety of a christian prince , i shall leave to your judgement to enquire . but i see by the doctor 's maxims of prudence , if the world run after the beast , it is but the duty and wisdom of the kings of the earth to fall down and worship him : and if the arrian faction be great and popular , it is prudence in constantius to arrianize . it is worth observing , how these men to serve their interest can quit their old impropriation of the little flock , and to make themselves formidable , will appear as the syrians , that cover the land. but this popish argument of number , is never urg'd but upon design ; for it is confess'd , multitude is no infallible argument of truth , for anti-christ will out poll us . he complains , that there is a vast number of atheistical livers , that seldom or never resort to publick worship , and yet these escape the indictments of law & censures of the church ; but all the arrows are made ready against the servants of the living god. whether the title of the servants of god , which these men appropriate to themselves ; be not a presumption , i shall leave to be examin'd by omniscience : but i am sure , they are guilty of some actions of so bad a tincture , that may make the world justly suspect , they wear the livery of another master . but if there be a remisness of government in england , or a connivance to athe●istical separatists , it is our complaint and lamentation as well as theirs . the doctor in the same section makes the number of the atheists in england not inferiour to the non-conformists : and then by the late insinuation their number will likewise plead for toleration , and it will not be prudence to molest them . and where there are many sectaries , it is no wonder there should be as many atheists . you know sir , it was remarqued by a very observing gentleman , that there were more atheists in the seven provinces , than in the rest of christendom : ( we must now except england ) and he gives us this reason for his conjecture , that there were so many religions , that there were great numbers of men that were of none at all . sir , there are many impertinencies in that little book , which i thought not worthy the examination , and which your judgement will easily answer from the grounds of this discourse : such is his branding parish churches for a popish invention , which any sober man would rather have thought to have been the contrivance of reason and convenience ; for we find this invention elder than the pope ; for they were founded in the province of alexandria in the dayes of athanasius , as athanasius and epiphanius inform us . such another impertinence is his tedious harangue about separation from parochial organical churches , which no way concern the constitution of the catholick church , or the church of england : for though deserting our parish church in some circumstance may be a disorder , yet it is no schism if we communicate with any other regular assembly of the same communion . athanasius does not accuse ischyras of schism , for separating from his parochial congregation and priest , but for erecting a conventicle , and dividing from the bishop , and the whole catholick church in alexandria . as for mr. h's discourse about the obligation of humane laws , i shall refer him for an answer to st. paul and bishop sanderson ; and when they are answered , we must enquire further . i take no notice of the railery against ceremonies . the necessity of them in publick worship ▪ and the authority of the church in enjoyning them is substantially prov'd by mr. hooker , and lately by mr. falkner ; and if their reasons will not prevail , i will not pretend to work a miracle , or hope to open the eyes of them , who are resolv'd to be blind . sir , i hope that these papers will satisfie you , that these men are schismaticks , and assure you that i am , sir , your faithful friend and servant , r. c. honoured sir , there lately came to my hand the works of mr. hales , entituled golden remains . the most sacred of these reliques , is a little tract of schism , which you find celebrated by the high and mighty transproser , and applauded by your doctor of divinity , and is the fam'd sanctuary of our dividing parties . therefore having some months since presented you with my thoughts concerning schism , i thought my self oblig'd to an impartial perusal of this famous tract , for fear i might through weakness of judgement have impos'd an error upon you and my self . i found the remains of mr. hales prefac'd with so vast an encomium of the author , that i address'd my self to his tract of schism with a very awful reverence : resolving to submit to the clearest reasons , and not to be asham'd to be convinc'd by a person of that admir'd acuteness . but having with the most strict intention consider'd that discourse , i find my notion of schism left untouch'd . but because our non-conformists so oft appeal to this tractate , i resolv'd to consider how far it could serve their interest , and justifie their separation . first therefore he informs us , that there are two things which serve to compleat a schism . 1. the choice of a bishop in opposition to the former . 2. the erecting of a church or oratory for the dividing parties to meet in . now i acknowledge this notion of schism to be both antient and orthodox : schism being consider'd as a breach of charity , or a dissolving of that bond of peace , which we are so often solemnly changed to preserve inviolate . and without a great and evident necessity , this dividing must be very displeasing unto the prince of peace , who did command us to be one , even as he and the father are one. of this nature was the schism of the arrians , miletians and donatiss at their first dividing : they set up altar against altar , had bishops of their own party , and their peculiar oratories , and would have no communion with the bishops or assemblies of that standing part that alwayes called themselves the catholick church . the church of england by the title of long prescription and the establishment of a law , is the standing church of this nation , with which all the people of this kingdom are bound to communicate ; but our non-conformists have chosen to themselves pastors in opposition to the bishops and priests of the church of england , and have erected their distinct congregations to confront our church assemblies , and therefore by mr. hales's definition they are guilty of compleat schism . but sir , it must be observ'd , that these men have run further than the arrians , miletians and donatists did at their first dividing : for though they had so little charity , as for a matter of dispute , to divide from the communion of the other part of the church , yet they had so much prudence , as they preserv'd to themselves some bishops and priests who had receiv'd their consecration and orders from the catholick church ; and when their bishops and priesthood were worn out , the factions expir'd ; for they were not arriv'd to such a height of fanaticism , as to think themselves a church without the government and priesthood of the apostolick line . no , they were so sacred and curious in this , that i find the arrians cavilling at the ordination of athanasius , as not being catholick and canonical ; just as the papists objected against us the naggs-head consecration . and ( by the way ) that was the most weighty and considerable attempt that ever rome made upon the church of england : and could they clearly have invalidated and disannull'd our succession of bishops and priesthood , all the learning of england could not have prov'd us a catholick church . but this cavil was with demonstration confuted by that elaborate piece of mr. mason arch-deacon of norfolk . sir , i hope that the merit of this digression will beg its own pardon . but to return to our english sectaries according to mr. hales's notion , it would be indeed a very unhappy schism in the church of england , for the bishop of norwich and his presbyters and jurisdiction , to divide from the communion of the archbishop of canterbury , and to set up a church of the east angles divided from that of the west . but supposing this , there were yet left to us this satisfaction , that we were still under the government and ministry of that bishop and priesthood , of whose consecration and orders we were sufficiently assur'd ; and though this would be an unlucky faction in the english hierarchy , yet it would be no schism from the catholick church . but our separatists are run to a further distance ; for they have not set up altar against altar , or one bishop in opposition to another , but have thrown off all the bishops and priests of the apostolick succession , and have erected a synagogue against the church ; and set up a lay-elder in opposition to the bishop and priest . and this is not only a disobedience against the laws , and a schism from the establish'd church of england , but is a separation from the catholick church . and seeing our sectaries have no priesthood , i believe their conventicles to be no more a church , than a club of mechanicks in a coffee-house . for though some of these congregations may retain imposition of hands as a mockery of ordination , yet the imposing of lay-hands have no more power to confer priesthood , than i to have to constitute a judge of oyer and terminer . mr. hales makes schism and sedition of a very resembling nature : he tells us , that sedition is a lay schism , and schism is an ecclesiastical sedition . now , 't is true , it would be a great sedition to set up a prince of the blood in opposition to our soveraign , who by long and legal investiture hath been possessed of regal supremacy : but it would be sedition of a deeper dye , to renounce all allegiance to our prince , and to cast off the whole royal line , and to set up a forreigner , or one who had no alliance to the royal blood. thus , if to set up one bishop in opposition to another ( though both be of the same apostolick succession ) if this be a schism and a great disorder , then sure , for our sectaries to cast off all the bishops and priests of the catholick church , and to set up such teachers and governours , who have no relation to the sacerdotal line , this must be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the outmost and most schismatical separation from the catholick church . but mr. hales proceeds and gives us a distinction of schism . there is a schism , where only one part is the schismatick , for where the occasion is necessary , there not he that separates , but he that is the cause of the separation is the schismatick . this shall be allowed to be orthodox too : and when our non-conformists can demonstrate , that it is necessary for them to separate from the church of england , we will take off the indictment , and absolve them from schism . but they must prove this necessity from weightier topicks than fringe and lace . they must make it evident , that they cannot communicate with us , without manifest dishonour to god , affront to jesus and his holy religion , and evident hazard of their salvation . but this can never be prov'd , but from the new gospel of private conscience , for i am sure the church of england is so happily constituted , that there is no law nor canon in the four evangelists , or in the apostolick acts or epistles , that will justifie a separation from it , much less vote it to be necessary . secondly , our author tells us , that there is a schism in which both parties are the schismaticks ; for where the occasion of separation is unnecessary , neither side can be excused from the guilt of schism . an instance of this he gives us in that great division between the eastern and westernchurches about the observation of easter . i confess i can make no defence for the churches of the east or west for that uncharitable division upon the account of a different ceremony ; for sure the several parts of the catholick church might have enjoy'd their peculiar rites and usages , and yet preserv'd an entire peace and universal communion . i am of st. austin's mind , totum hoc genus liberas habet observationes , nec disciplina ulla est in his melior gravi prudentique christiano , quam ut eo modo agat quo agere viderit ecclesiam ad quamcunque forte devenerit . but how this instance of the paschal schism should be improv'd to serve the interest of our english sectaries , i can no way discern . he that can from hence extract a plea for our non-conformists , must have greater skill in theological chymistry , than i dare pretend to . for though this unhappy controversie occasioned a breach of charity and communion , yet here was no departure from the catholick church on either side , nor any violation of order and government ; for the christians of the east observ'd the canons and customs of the eastern church , and submitted themselves to the government and ministery of those bishops and priests , in whose jurisdiction they liv'd , and so likewise in the west , vice versa . and would our non-conformists learn but so much order and obedience , there were an end of the schism . thus i have consider'd the theorems of our admir'd author , and i find no mischief in them ; but there are still behind such a train of consequences , as ( in my opinion ) are of very evil insinuation , and do no way merit to be reckon'd among his golden remains . i cannot approve of his severe censure upon the antient church , upon the account of the paschal difference : for he interprets that breach to be a just judgement of god , ( but then sir , mark the provocation ) because ( sayes he ) that through sloth and blind obedience , men examin'd not the things , which they were taught : but like beasts of burden patiently couch'd down , and indifferently underwent whatever their superiours laid upon them . i abhorr the barbarity of rifling sepulchres , or disturbing the ashes of the dead . but i wish our ingenious author had invented some kinder emblems for the antient christians , than ass and camel. for though they were so humble and peaceable , as quietly to submit to the orders of their spiritual governours , yet they were not so tame as to truckle to an idol , though commanded to couch by imperial injunctions . i will never plead for a brutish inadvertency , or a blind and unchristian obedience to our superiours . the church provides by a canon , that all christians should once be catechumeni , instructed in the plain fundamentals of faith and piety ; and therefore it is not intended , that men should be impos'd upon in matters that concern their common salvation , and there is great reason , that in things of that moment men should be cautious and inquisitive . but i believe that apostolick canon , let all things be done in decency and order , hath left a great scope to the wisdom of our superiours , to order the publick administrations of religion . and in institutions of this nature ( the people being secured of all the pure necessaries to salvation ) i don't think they are oblig'd to any further examination , their greatest duty in this case is a quiet submission . the gentile christians of antioch , knew themselves to be free'd from all jewish or levitical observances , but yet when the council at jerusalem for prudential reasons and considerations enjoyn'd them the abstinence from blood and things offered to idols , we don't read , that they enquir'd any further , but quietly obeyed that canon , and yet i hope those primitive christians deserv'd a better name and character than beasts of burden in matters of this nature , i cannot yet discern the guilt or irreligion of a blind obedience . i could wish that all christians would keep the common faith , and practise the plain rules of christian religion , and these things being preserv'd entire , i see no mischief if in other things we should leave our superiours to govern , and submit even with blind obedience , and not trouble our selves and the world with nice and scrupulous examinations . blind or unexamining obedience to our superiours , with those limitations i have stated , would so much assure the peace and order of the church , that if it were not a vertue , yet i am sure it would be a lesser crime , than pride , schism or obstinate disobedience . our author reflects again upon the paschal schism in these words , we may plainly see the danger of our appeal to antiquity for resolution in controverted points of faith , and how small relief we are to expect from them ; for if the direction of the chiefest guides and directors of the church , did in a point so trivial so mainly fail them , can we without the imputation of great grossness and folly , think so poor-spirited persons competent judges of the questions now on foot between the churches ? pardon me , i know what temptation drew that note from me . now sir you may perceive that the author was very sensible , that there was some such guilt in this passage , as would stand in need of pardon ; and therefore if you dare adventure the scandal of giving pardon to a man , after he is dead , you may remit this guilty passion of mr. hales : for my part , i have charity for him , because he tells us , that this expression was drawn from him , by some vehement temptation . and you know , that a very great apostle under a temptation denyed the son of god ; and if this good man in such a hurricane , renounced all the fathers of the church , this should plead for our compassion . what that particular temptation was that occasioned this ecstasie , he was not pleas'd to acquaint us , and therefore i cannot determine , but give me leave to conjecture . i find mr. hales had the ill destiny to be a member of the belgick synod , and he informs us in his epistles , that it was sometimes his province , to refute the arguments of the remonstrants , ( hoste absente . ) now perhaps , observing that those poor-spirited antients , would not be press●d into the states service , but were all of a different opinion from that synod , who knows but this unlucky contradiction , and his conversing too much with dammannus , might put him into an unwary heat , and make him reprobate all antiquity . our church has so much reverence for the antients , as in her publick articles to own the authority of the first four general councils , and king james himself would never impose upon us the novel decrees of dort. i confess sir , ever since i understood greek , i have had the grossness and folly ( as mr. h. interprets it ) to have more value for the judgement of st. cyril of jerusalem , st. gregory nazianzen and st. chrysostome , than for the opinion of bogermanus , sybrandus , beza or gomarus . i have been so silly as to think the antient , catholick council of nice ( that was but three centuries remov'd from the apostles ) did merit more authority and esteem in the christian church , than that partial and modern assembly of dort. and i cannot yet alter my perswasion . but i would gladly quit my self from those ugly imputations of grossness and folly. i must therefore examine the arguments of mr. hales , by which he invalidates the authority of the antients . first , he accuses them for poor-spirited persons . indeed they never were so daring as to be so bold with the attributes of god , as the dutch professors were in the synod of dort , or as beza was in geneva : but yet these poor-spirited men had the resolution to be martyrs for the name of jesus ; and that sir , i should think , is a very divine and noble piece of gallantry . besides , some of them left to the world their golden remains , excellent monuments of their prety and learning , as worthy as our authors . secondly , but his great argument against appealing to the judgement of the antients , is their indiscretion about that trivial matter of the observation of easter . the churches of the east and west , were not without some plausible reasons , for their different observance of that festival , and though they will not amount to a substantial apology for that controversie , yet they will something help to lessen the vastness of the indiscretion : for the eastern church had been taught by the apostles , an innocent complyance to the jews in those quarters , that they might not scandal them by a sudden and total departure from all the mosaical rites and observances ; and therefore the christians in the east governed them by st. pauls rule of complaisance , to the jews they so far became jews , as to celebrate their easter festival , upon the fourteenth month , when the jews observ'd their paschal . and though i confess , that reason was out of force in two or three centuries , yet sir , you know , custom has a great empire upon wiser creatures , than beasts of burden : and therefore it was no prodigy of imprudence , nor any divine judgement , if they were so tenacious of an antient custom , that had a very innocent and apostolick foundation . the western church being at a great distance from palestine , was never oblig'd to that complyance to the jews : but being left to their christian liberty , and assured by an infallible oracle , that our lord arose from the dead upon the first day of the week , therefore they judged it most apposite and rational , to celebrate the anniversary feast of the resurrection , upon a dies dominicus . this appear'd so reasonable to that excellent prince constantine the great , that with great resolution he oppos'd the jewish complyance of the eastern christians , and in his general epistle concerning the transactions of the council of nice , he disswades the christian church from that custom , itaque nihil vobis commune sit cum infestissima judaeorum turba — domini percussoribus . and besides his imperial ratification of the canon of nice , he inforces a general uniformity in the observation of easter , by a very plausible reason , in the same epistle . — unam esse catholicam suam ecclesiam voluit , cujus tametsi partes in multis variisque sunt dispersae locis , uno tamen spiritus , hoc est , divino arbitrio fovetur . consideret porro sanctitatis vestrae solertia , quam grave sit & indecorum , per eosdem dies , alios quidem jejuniis intentos esse , alios verò vacare conviviis . all i design by this , is , to shew that there was so much plausibility on each side , that there was something in the case more than trifle , and not such monstrous grossness and folly as our author represents . but grant this controversie to be trivial , and the antients indiscreet in the manage of it , yet i cannot discern the logick of his conclusion , that therefore they are not to be appeal'd unto in any controversie of religion . the sense of this argument amounts to thus much , because the wisest and most learned men , have sometimes their mistakes and indiscretions , therefore their judgement is never to be regarded in any matter of moment . i fancy the world would find vast inconveniencies by such a consequence . sir , i request you to lend me your italian boccaline , for the conventions of parnassus have now as much authority as the four first general councils , and sure there will not be so much grossness and folly , in appealing to the sentence of apollo , as in consulting the judgement of the poor-spirited antients . pray search the rolls of parnassus , that we may know whether apollo have recorded bishop jewel , and all the champions of the reformation for fools and asses ; for i observe they were all so impertinent ▪ as in the controversie with rome to appeal very often to the judgement of the antient fathers . learned chamier in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( for antiquity sake i have chosen the hebrew title ) disputing de usu canonis , censures his romish adversaries , for declining the judgement of the antients in that controversie , dissimulant adversarii hanc tantam antiquorum testimoniorum & copiam , & vehementiam : ut solent à solis radiis oculos avertere , quibus lippitudo est incommoda ▪ there are two cases in which we appeal to the old catholick fathers . 1. in controversies of faith , or the great doctrines of christian religion . 2. concerning the government , custome and discipline of the antient church . now the great dispute is , whether we may appeal to their judgement in matters of faith. and here i will freely trust you with my sentiments . my belief of the great fundamentals and doctrinals of christianity is founded upon those divine oracles of the holy scriptures : but my perswasion is much help'd and establish'd by the universal consent of the old catholick church in the same articles . for i consider , that the antients of the first four centuries , liv'd very nigh the time of the first promulgation of christianity , when the sense of the apostolick age , was yet fresh and early . and i am hugely confirm'd by observing , that the old greek fathers and councils expounded the creed just as we do : for sure they must in reason be suppos'd to understand the idiom of their own language , and therefore to interpret the mysteries of the gospel better than we , who are so many ages remov'd from the first revelation , and are but forreigners to that language in which the gospel was writ . there is still a controversie on foot in the churches ( to use the phrase of our author ) concerning the eternal divinity of jesus the son of god , and the resurrection of the flesh is still called in question . now though my belief of these two articles , is primarily founded upon the sacred scriptures , yet that which makes up my plerophorie , is the authority of the antients . for though the sacred writings appear very express in those two articles , yet i have seen all those texts so cunningly evaded by the plausible interpretations of the socinians , that i confess it is great satisfaction to me , that the antient catholick church did in general councils maintain those articles and expound the holy text in that sense which we receive . i was about to have concluded this with an old sentence of vincentius lyrinensis ; but i consider'd , that to prove the authority of the antients , by an antient author , would be false logick , and a gross impertinence ; and i am very shye of those ill-looking imputations . therefore i will end with the authority of the great chamier , who was but a modern divine , and of the reformed gallican church , and i hope our appeal to him will be allowed . in the controversie de scripturae interpretatione , he discourses of the several helps to a right interpretation of scripture , and among the rest mentions the judgement of the antients . alter ordo , veterum est , atque eorum qui nostram aetatem praecesserunt . horum labores nemo pius dubitat , deum extare voluisse , ut qui viventes profuerunt ecclesiae , mortus non sint inutiles . juvat ergo : & valdè quidem juvat , sciscitari quid senserint olim boni patres , tum de fidei articulis , tum de singulorum scripturae locorum interpretatione ; neque earum testimonium parvi faciendum multò minus rejiciendum absque graevissimd ratione , etsi non debeant fidei nostrae dominari . this learned man was under no temptation as our author was , and therefore expresses his opinion of the antients with much reason and reverence : and therefore if i have been guilty of grossness and folly in my appeal to antiquity , you see sir , i have very learned fools to bear me company . 2. our next appeal to antiquity is in the questions concerning the antient government and discipline of the catholick church . methinks there should be no dispute concerning the equity or reasonableness of our appeal in this case . for all courts of justice , in a question concerning an antient custom or practice , do constantly pass sentence , according to the testimonies of the most aged men . and though we should grant , that the antient fathers were not wise enough to be judges , yet sure their very antiquity makes them the most competent witnesses of the government and practice of the church , in the first ages of christianity . sir , you see our house of peers , when their priviledges were questioned by the commons , thought it the most rational method to determine that controversie , by an appeal to antient presidents . and if our protesting lords would be as just to the church , as they are to their own court , and allow the antient records of the catholick church to be as sacred , as the old rolls of parliament , they would have oblig'd themselves never to alter episcopal government . for we can shew more numerous , and far more antient monuments to prove the primitive and continued jurisdiction of bishops , than their lordships can produce , to assert their peculiar prerogatives . but sir , if you would more clearly understand this necessity or usefulness of appealing to the antients , let me humbly offer this advice . i know your temper is serious and contemplative , but i advise you upon this special occasion to compose your mind into an extraordinary fixation ; and when you are retired , and your eyes shut , and your arms folded , then think out of the world all councils and fathers , fancy we had no more notice of the judgement or practice of the antients , than origen had of his state of pre-existence ; suppose this present age of the church to have no monument of christian antiquity , but the gospels and epistles in greek , and no skill in that language , but what we learned from pagan orators , poets and philosophers : and at my next visit pray acquaint me with the result of your thoughts ; whether in those considerations you did not fancy a strange darkness upon the face of christendome , and see a necessity of a new revelation to interpret the old. our author proceeds and tells us , he sees no reason , why opinionum varietas & opinantium unitas should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , why we might not differ in opinion , and yet communicate in sacris . the honour of god and religion have so much suffered by our divisions , that i wish with st. paul , rom. 15. 6. that we might with one mind and with one mouth glorifie god the father of our lord jesus christ . but since our controversies in religion are so far multiplyed , that there is no hope the christian world should ever unite in one judgement , without the force of a miracle , yet it would be happy if all christians would quietly enjoy their differences of opinion , and be so far of one mind , as to go up together to the temple to pray and communicate with the catholick church in sacris . the church of england retains no sacraments , but those which have the manifest authority of divine institution . all the prayers of this church are immediately directed to the eternal god : and all presented in the name of jesus . we petition for nothing , but what the religion of jesus allows us to supplicate . and therefore i see no reason why all the people of this nation , who are not atheists and anti-christian , should not communicate with us in those confessed services of prayers , praises and sacramentals . and this is all that is required by that tyrannical act of uniformity . and therefore that great popular orator in his late harangue to the house of lords has imposed a fallacy upon us , for he passionately complains against the law , for devesting the people of their properties , only because they cannot agree with church-men in some uncertain opinions of religion . i hope it will not amount to scandalum magnatum to say , that this is meer sophistry . for our laws prosecute no man for difference of opinion ; no , so far from this , that the very act against conventicles allows our dissenters , not only their different opinions , but the quiet use and enjoyment of their several religions in their own families ; nay , it granted them a further favour and liberty , that they might receive four or five more of the same dissenting brotherhood , to make the exercise more full and satisfying . here was nothing prohibited but noise and multitude . but they might notwithstanding that law have peaceably enjoyed their different opinions and property too ( that great fundamental of state religion . ) the church doth not put the souls of men upon the rack , or command an exact consent to all her publick articles ; but indulges a difference of opinion : it only provides for the beauty , order and solemnity of publick worship , by enjoyning all the christians of this kingdom to communicate with us in those common sacra , that all sober christians acknowledge to be of universal obligation . but here your doctor would rejoyn , that it is as far from cornwall to berwick , as from berwick to cornwall , and demand a reason , why we do not exercise as much charity to others , as we expect to our selves , or why we should not with as much reason be obliged to communicate with their assemblies , as to expect them to be present at ours ? for our author was so kind to dissenters , as he tells us , he sees no reason why we should not mix with those divided assemblies , where there was nothing done , but what true piety and devotion would brook . if i may credit my own conscience , i have a very serious love and veneration for all true piety and devotion . but i am resolved to have no communion with conventicles , and will faithfully acquaint you with my reasons for that resolve . first , my ears are not fitted for the unintelligible rapsodies of enthusiastick divinity . nothing impresses upon me , but what my reason and judgement can give a sober account of . and i am sure , there are many assemblies in england , called religious meetings , whose chiefest devotions consist in nothing but froth and groans ( to borrow an odd phrase from our author . ) secondly , i will appeal from our author , to mr. hales , who towards the end of this tract gives us a very orthodox definition of a conventicle . a conventicle is a congregation of schismaticks , or all meetings upon unnecessary separation , ( and concludes ) that it is not lawful , no not for prayer , for hearing , for conference , or for any other religious office whatsoever , for the people to assemble otherwise , than by publick order is allowed . now since i can enjoy a communion with the catholick church , and all the advantages of christianity , without going to a conventicle ; i think it were neither piety nor devotion for me to communicate with those congregations , which our author grants to be unlawful assemblies . had i lived in the dayes of dioclefian , i would have been a member of the ecclesia subterranea , and have assembled with the catholick christians in caves and grotto's , which necessity had consecrated into holy places ; but since it is my happy lot to live in that age and kingdom , where christianity may be confessed above ground , since a just authority hath opened our churches , seeing i may offer all the publick devotions that god requires , in those solemn places which the law appoints ; since i can at the same time be both devout towards god , and obedient to my governours , i resolve i will have no communion with those assemblies , which the law of the nation , and the canons of the church make irregular . sir , i assure you , it adds some cheerfulness to my publick devotions , that i can at the same time , both give unto god , the things that are god's , and to caesar , the things that are caesar's . thirdly , i resolve i will never be a member of our separate congregations , because in them i cannot be assured of my compleat communion with the catholick church , or the advantages of a regular priesthood . i question not , but god may pardon without the absolution of a priest , and give a man possession of eternal life , without the seal or title of a sacrament : but salvation is a matter of such vast importance , that i would never adventure it upon extraordinary methods ▪ in concerns of religion and everlasting interest , i love to enjoy all the security , that god hath given to mankind . in that great schism of israel , some of the most sober and considering jews , were not satisfied with their communion in that new church of israel , though it was established by the law of jeroboam , but returned to worship at jerusalem ; yet the tribes of israel retain'd the same creed with those of judah , and the calves of dan and bethel were not design'd for idols , but set up in imitation of the cherubims in the temple ; but these wise men were dissatisfied , because their priests were not of the aaronical line , and had no other consecration or authority , but what was deriv'd from the patents of jeroboam , and they could not be assured , that god would accept their oblations from the hands of those men , who had no regular priesthood . now there is great reason to believe , that there should be as much order in the kingdom of jesus , as there was in the jewish polity ; and therefore i am assur'd both by reason and sacred oracles , that there is an evangelical priesthood , that hath succeeded that of aaron ; that there is a peculiar order of men , who have receiv'd this priestly authority , by a regular ordination from the apostles successors . and i esteem these men according to st. paul's injunction , as the stewards of the manifold mysteries of god , and the ministers of reconciliation : and therefore ( without an inevitable necessity ) i will never live without the advantage and satisfaction of their ministerial authority . st. chrysostome in his discourse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , highly magnifies the office and authority of a priest ; for speaking of that order of men , he tells us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. that god hath invested the priests with such authority , as he never conferred upon angels or arch-angels . for to which of the angels did he say at any time , what ever ye bind on earth , is bound in heaven ; and whose sins , ye remit , they are remitted ? for as the father gave power to the son to remit sins , so the son of god hath committed the same power to his ministers on earth . i believe the power of absolution which was conferred upon the christian priesthood , by the commission of our lord , is not so large , as the pope would extend it ; nor yet so inconsiderable as the puritan fancies it . i believe our saviour did not trifle , when he granted that charter to the apostles , but sure there is something in that authority , that is solemn and momentous , and whatever it be , i resolve to enjoy the benefit of it . and therefore i declare , that i would sooner travel from london to larissa , to communicate with the greek church , where i might be assured of priestly authority , than walk from temple-barr to westminster , to joyn with a lay-conventicle . i know no rule in the world , that can rationally assure me of ministerial authority , but a sacerdotal succession from the apostles . as for the pretension of inspiration , it is no more than mahomet and manes , and every impostor have pretended . their argument from gifts and qualifications , weighs nothing with me . a jew under the mosaical oeconomy , might have hired an hebrew butcher , who might have slain his lamb or goat , and have dress'd it , and laid it upon an altar with as much art and exactness , as the eldest priest in the temple : but then it had been no sacrifice , nor have ever been accepted of god , as a legal attonement : no , it was the priests offering sacrifice , that made them peace-offerings ; it was the priests sprinkling the blood upon the altar of the lord , and his burning the fat , that was an essential requisite to render the oblation a sweet savour unto the lord. angels and arch-angels are wise , zealous and holy spirits , but all their excellencies do not make them priests , though in another sense they are ministring spirits . to conclude this , since i can no way be rationally secured of my relation to christ , or of my participation of all the advantages of christianity , but by a comm●nion with the catholick church and its ministerial authority , i do therefore assure you , that i have a greater value for my communion with the priests and the temple , than for that ador'd diana of english property . and if any unhappy circumstance should ever put me upon the experiment , i would desert this , to enjoy the other . sir , if ever the christian world become wise and sober , this very consideration would repair the breaches of the catholick church , and prove the final ruine of fanatick conventicles . our author passionately declaims against the supremacy and ambition of bishops . i confess , pride and ambition are greatly inconsistent with the humble nature of christianity , and are strange indecencies in spiritual governours : and i will never make an apology for vice and disorder . but this ought not to be urged as a reason for the extirpation of episcopacy . our lord did not suspend nor degrade his apostles , because there was a strife among them , who should be the greatest . nor would it be just or charitable , to charge all bishops with these evil imputations . i observe one famous instance of humility in the chair of rome , and that sir , you know , is the most principal seat of ambition . gregory bishop of rome , who in the year of our lord 596. sent augustina into england to convert the saxons , in his epistle to eulogius bishop of alexandria , disowns the ambitious title of universal supremacy : indicare quoque vestra beatitudo studuit , jam se quibusdam non scribere superba vocabula , que ex vanitatis radice prodierunt , & mihi loquitur dicens : sicut jussistis , quod verbunt jussionis peto à meo auditu removere , qu●●scio quis sum , qui estis . loco enim mihi fratres estis , moribus patres , non ergo jussi , sed quae utilia visa sunt , indicare curavi : — & ecce in praefatione epistolae quam ad me ipsum qui prohibui direxistis , superbae appellationes verbum , universalem me papam dicentis , imprimere curastis . quod peto dulcissima mihi fanctitas vestra ultra non faciat : quia vobis subtrahitur quod alteri plus , quam ratio exigit , praebetur . and we must not look upon this modesty , as the poor spirited ▪ humour of this single bishop , for he assures us in the same epistle , that it was the constant humility of his predecessors . — recedant verba quae vanitatem inflant , & charitatem vulnerant , & quidem in sancta chalcedonensi synodo atque post à subsequentibus patribus hoc decessoribus meis oblatum vestra sanctitas novit , sed tamen nullus eorum uti hoc unquam vocabulo voluit . but sir , our author not only protests against the ambition , but the authority of bishops : for he tells us , they do but abuse themselves and others , that would perswade us , that bishops by christs institution , have any superiority over other men , than that of reverence . he grants , that there is a greater reverence due to them , than to other men , but how this should become a duty , without supposing a just superiority to exact it , i cannot understand . i will not here ingage in the controversie about the divine right of episcopacy . but i am sure the apostles had a superiority over the seventy disciples by christs institution , and i am certain that the antient catholick church did esteem bishops as the apostles successors . the first we meet with in ecclesiastical history that ever denyed the superiority of bishops , was aenius a discontented arian , and epiphanius records him for a heretick , and brands his opinion as a diabolical delusion . sir , there remains nothing more considerable in our author , only the old puritan cavil against all pomp and gestures , garments and musick in publick worship . i confess , i dislike the gaudy pageantry and numerous ceremonies of the ordo romanus , and i as much abhorr the rudeness of a conventicle . sir , i have neither mind nor leisure to examine the scruples of nicer fancies , but i will propound these queries , and reserve them for future consideration . 1. whether the governours of the catholick church have not as much authority to make institutions in matters indifferent , as the apostles ? whether the womans veil , or the holy kiss , were more jure divino , than the surplice or sign of the cross ? 2. whether a pompous superstition in publick worship , be not more pardonable , than a rude forlorness ? or , whether a sancy rudeness will not sooner introduce atheism , than the most glorious superstition ? 3. whether the awful adorations of the jews , the glory of the tabernacle and the temple , the ornaments of the priests , and the musick , were leviticall , or rather founded upon moral reasons ? 4. whether a publick oratory or church that is set apart for the more solemn worship of the eternal god , may not without superstition be as glorious and magnificent , as the stadthouse in holland ? ( except imagery . ) whether a respect to god , will not as much justifie one , as a relation to the states , will vindicate the other ? sir , whenever you please to command , i shall enquire for resolution , in the mean i rest , sir , your affectionate friend and servant , r. c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a34335-e2010 lib. 3. adv . haer. cap. 3. lib. 4. cap. 43. ☞ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epad philadelph . and exhorting to obey the bishops , and priests he tells them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ignat. ep. ad trall . epist . 42. pag. 34. aug. ep. 113. tom. 1. p. 781. ad p. 802. epiphan . adv . haeres . tom. 2. p. 727. pag. 30. page 10. sect. 12. pag. 11. pag. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. pag. 4. page 2. page 2. page 2. page 4. sect. 5. page 9. notes for div a34335-e6860 page 2. page 1. epist . 118. page 3. niceph. l. 8. c. 25. lang. int. 〈◊〉 tom. 1. lib. 10. cap. 5. sect. 1. tom. 1. lib. 16. cap. 5. sect . 5. what authority have we , for infant baptism , the lords day , the dispensing the eucharist to women , but the authority and practice of the antients ? lev. 17. 5 , 6. a winding-sheet for the schism of england contriv'd for to inform the ignorant, resolve the wavering, and confirm the well principled roman catholick. by j. e. missioner. everard, john, missioner. 1687 approx. 141 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 70 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-07 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a38827 wing e3534a estc r218229 99829840 99829840 34285 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a38827) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 34285) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 2028:5) a winding-sheet for the schism of england contriv'd for to inform the ignorant, resolve the wavering, and confirm the well principled roman catholick. by j. e. missioner. everard, john, missioner. [24], 96, [16] p. [s.n.], printed at dublin : permissu superiorum, 1687. dedication signed: john everard. final three leaves contain verses; "a divine poem disswasive from shism" has caption title. reproduction of the original in the trinity college library, dublin. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -early works to 1800. church of england -controversial literature -early works to 1800. schism -early works to 1800. 2003-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-03 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-04 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2003-04 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a winding-sheet for the schism of england , contriv'd for to inform the ignorant , resolve the wavering , and confirm the well principled roman catholick . by i. e. missioner . narraverunt iniqui fabulationes , sed non ut lex tua — spal . 5. veritas non erubescit nisi obscondi — tertull. contra valent. — printed at dublin , permissu superiorum , 1687. to the kings most excellent majesty . when i contemplate the many miracles of divine providence that led your most serene majesty by the hand through so many wonderful changes and imminent dangers to the throne of your royal ancestors , maugre all the contrivements of hell , and plots of horror and impiety , sure all signalize you as pre-ordain'd by the almighty for a great work of ages , viz. to rescue the virgin spouse of christ the roman catholick church from the jaws of the dragon , it 's your rare valour , and piety , that must give the fatal blow to the many headed hydra of this schism-abounding age , this heavenly work shall eternize your glorious name and memory at the rising and setting sun even beyond the tracts of time , and manifest you to be among all earthly kings the most meek , clement , valorous , most wise , merciful , and the most tender hearted truely christian prince , who hath learning to understand , wisdom to discern , and powerful authority to command and commend that faith be observ'd in your kingdoms , which is most conformable to the scripture , most consonant to the doctrine of the primitive church : and most warranted from the express priviledges , advantages , and promisses given by the sacred mouth of ever glorious jesus . — o great iames , in you signally is now verified that receiv'd maxime , a fortibus fortes , a piis generantur pii , from a confluence of the most transcendently august blood of the best kings of europe , and from your great grand-father , and great grand-mother ; the ever blessed queen mary of scotland , mark : sanguis martyrum semen ecclesiae . lo , their blood running in your most sacred veins , inflames your dread majesty to most sublimely religious undertakings specially when in you is to a prodigy seen such a spring of valour and pious zeal for to promote , vigorously , yet mildly , the glory of the almighty so as that no posterity will keep it silent but blazon it throughout the whole world to your eternal glory . for can any think that the all-bountiful god has imported all those stupendious gifts in vain to you ? no undoubtedly , they are destin'd to glorious actings , for to fill the world with wonders of your happy reign , in drawing after you to christs holy faith the hearts and obstinate wills of your subjects — therefore may it please your most sacred majesty , this small tract of divine faith confidently flies to be shelt'red under the wings of the gracious patronage of your most serene majesty , now by the grace and providence of god , defender of the faith — and now the most invincible hero , the only glory , moving soul , and the most tutelar angel of great brittain , y'our prince whose valour and conduct is such , as none can praise , nor yet admire too much . in you all 's great , great in all magnificence , your graces and gifts excells all excellence , you by grant of liberty quite allays the schisms of our late sore aflicting days , now each of your subjects to faith may tread that way which safest him to bliss may lead . reign long great prince , sure your course shall hold though ten hundred thousands whigs cross you should , whose mad , vain , damn'd contrivings can't hide the woful stings of their dark inner side . they like guilty blind buzzards of the night shrink from the clement terrour of thy might . lo , christ's faith you maintain and that in sight of all the world , in all the world's despight , in glorious iesus you always confide who sure for your all safety shall provide . god on whom all sublunary things depend bless your designs , and you from all harm defend . sweet iesus grant , that upon sea and land all things prove prosperous you take in hand . may all the blessings my wishes can invent prolong your days , and fill them with content . therefore let us all your subjects lift up our eyes , hands , and hearts to god on high , and let us earnestly beseech him mercifully to bless our dread sovereign queen mary , with a most holy sweet princely graff , a rising from so august , high , and gloa stock ; and this for the full comfort and succour of great brittain , to the end , that ne'r any other hand than stuarts , should sway the scepter of this land , to this prayer let all true subjects say , amen , amen . may it please your majesty this is the daily prayer of your most eternally devoted servant . john everard . vive iacobe diu dux optime , maxime princeps te divina tegat dextera , prosper abi . to his grace the duke of ormond . may it please your grace , as my well-intended and honest endeavors were never yet wanting to serve your grace , not only ( by god's heavenly inspiration ) in saving your precious life some years past , but even now also , by the direction of the same divine spirit , am endeavouring to prove instrumental in the saving your more precious soul , that immortal soul which is to survive either in the bosom of glory , or in the flames of the damn'd , to all eternity . this small unpolish'd tract , contriv'd by me for that purpose , i present your grace ; the whole scope whereof may ( i hope ) be not unfitly applied to your present state , in matter of true soul-saving faith. — my lord , it 's notoriously apparent that your moral principles were all along for monarchy , or kingly government ; all your life being eminently employed in real loyalty through very many vicisitudes of fortune , and trials of constancy : first , having sacrificed your estate and ease , slighting all cromwell's tempting offers , by a voluntary banishing your self after your sovereign into flanders ; secondly , in gallantly exposing your life , in coming and remaining in london some fifteen days incognito , striving wisely and warily to pave the way for the restauration and happy re-inthroning of king charles ii. of ever-glorious memory , dr. huet and others being put to death for entertaining your grace . add to this , how you being last of all lord lieutenant in ireland , you proved most loyal , wise , and watchful , always striving to defend vigorously the prerogatives of the crown , to render sedition odious , to undeceive the people of those shams , cheats , and frauds that were palm'd upon them ; to purge away all venemous humours and distempers which the hellish faction were always infecting the subjects with : you exposed their wild artifices to the derision and detestation of the world , preserving that kingdom from fained and false plots tending to destroy the peace and tranquillity of the land , and involve it in anarchy and confusion . such was the indefatigable labour and vigilance of your grace to put a stop ( through your wise government and prudent counsels ) to the restless endeavours of the publick enemies of kingly government . i should not forget , my lord , your great vigilance in relieving ( even in the dead of winter , and to the hazarding your life ) with extraordinary speed the city of waterford , when besieged eighteen days by the vsurper cromwell , he having assured all his adherents that that city was most extremely his . these , my lord , your heroick vndertakings to promote loyalty , the same loyalty which now stands the top and most visible of your grace's most illustrious titles and characters , which rendred you all along a great favourite of our late deceased sovereign , and makes you now most dear unto his present majesty king james the second . — these , i say , are so notoriously known , both at home and abroad , that even base envy and detraction have but rendred them to be the more acknowledged , and most illustriously conspicuous . these , my lord , not common actings , are patterns of your unbounded merits ; these heroick efforts , vndertakings , and brave never-to-be-forgotten performances , proceeded sure from that your noble genius , or natural propension to monarchy , in detestation of democracy and anarchy . now , my lord , you are to apply that your clear eagle-ey'd iudgment and great wisdom in owning and honouring that great monarchy which christ established here on earth , governed by one visible head , the vniversal pastor , vicegerent of christ , and successor to st. peter , to whom he gave special warrant to govern his flock . and it 's an undoubted truth , my lord , that the interest and conservation of kingly government is twisted with true , ancient , christian religion , that it seems animated with one and the same soul ; for , like to hippocrates's twins , they smile and weep together , and live and die together : for even as rebellion is the bane of civil kingdoms , and peace and concord the preservation of them , even so schism is the utter ruine of the church of christ , peace , vnity , vniformity , the special gift of god therein , and in the true church above all kingdoms or common-wealths , because it 's in all points a glorious conspicuous monarchy , tending every way to vnity , there being but one god , one christ , one flock , one pastor , one hope , one faith , one body , one head , as the apostle assures us . to this heavenly monarchy , my lord , you are invited ; all sects , or false new-fangled churches , cannot pretend to be a monarchy , having no head , nor united body , but a confused chaos . i am confident that your grace is a master of more solid reason than to ground your faith upon an uncertain foundation , or to pin the salvation of your soul on the bare sleeves of any sect whose guides are failable and fallible in all mens opinions , when you may enquire and find out a secure infallible guide , leading to that eternity of glory you were created for . the great reason , my lord , the great motive that excited dr. vane , dr. cressey , dr. king bishop of london , the bishop of glocester , with very many more , to separate from the protestant blind sect , was because they found no safe , secure , certain , human infallible , unerring , warrantable iudge , to interpret scriptures , and define questions of faith without errour , with any promise and privilege from christ , among the protestants . and consider , my lord , that it 's very probable that the last verdict and sentence of the forlorn protestant sect is already written in heaven , that it must soon yield , and fall to nothing , as all other damn'd heresies have done : for it 's but folly to pretend to secure by human arts that which god is resolved to destroy . are you , peradventure , afraid or asham'd that sectaries will blame you of inconstancy , in changing , or removing to the roman communion ? sure we mortals have above bruit beasts the resurrection of our bodies ; we have above devils to repent , reclaim , and flie from sin , especially that most heinous sin of schism and heresie : for sectae non possi debunt regnum dei , galat. 5. so as that you must want constancy only to sin : sapientis est mutare consilium ; nullus pudor est ad meliora convertie . — sure it was no blemish to st. paul to turn to christ from a persecutor ; it was no shame to constantine the great , of a heathen to become a roman catholick , converted and baptized by pope sylvester ; and it was no blemish to louis i. king of france , to be drawn to christ's faith by a woman : then what shame can it be to your grace , to forsake schism , and come to the true mother-church , the which king james i. of blessed memory did acknowledge in open parliament to be the only mother-church of all churches ? i hope , my lord , you are none of those who say to god , job 21. depart from us , we will not have the knowledge of thy ways . i hope you are none of those which abhor to hear good inspirations , flie and detest good company and books , lest by such occasions they might be touched in conscience , and so be converted and saved . i hope you are none of those most unfortunate hard-hearted men whereof the prophet ( isa. 28. ) speaketh , we have strucken a league with death , and made a bargain with hell it self ; which is in effect as much as if they had said , trouble us not , molest us not with thy persuasions , spend not thy words and labour in vain ; talk to others who are not yet settled , let them take heaven that will , we for our parts are resolved , we are at a point , we have made a league that must be kept , we have made a bargain that must be performed , yea , though it be with hell and death everlasting . o what a wonderful fury and obduration of an unrelenting heart is this ! my lord , when men are byass'd or prepossess'd , they lie open to be imposed upon to the belief of a down-right lye , or to the disbelief of a manifest demonstration of an infallible truth , and so to be mis-led to a plausible errour . the great reason why there are few in comparison who now-adays come to a right understanding , and a well-grounded persuasion in matters of faith , is , because they are not many who make a due enquiry with sincerity and unbyassed disposition : sure such who wilfully remain under the power of the false principles which were instill'd in them in their education , or who blindly following failable and fallible guides , whose persons they have in admiration and veneration , resolving never to trouble themselves with a free and impartial use of their own iudgment concerning those doctrines which they have in their own opinion wisely and safely ( as they imagine ) taken upon trust , led away by lofty conceits and opinion of their own reason and capacity , will not suffer them to attempt any sincere ingenuous examination of such things as imply a possibility of being deceived in points of faith ; whence it comes to pass , that they weigh only what is offered in favour of their own side , and make it the great end of their search not to follow what shall appear to be true upon enquiry , but rather to be confirmed in their present erroneous persuasion : it 's no wonder then that such as do enquire thus , are rather hardned in errour , than convinced of the truth . — i say then , that it is at once disingenuous , dangerous , and silly , to entertain such blind thoughts . i pray god these motives may have a strong influence upon you , by the assistance of god's grace , which is never wanting to those that are not wanting to themselves , and imprint in your soul the character of truth , that you may conquer all oppositions of vnderstanding or will , which may bar your ready obedience thereunto . first , divest your mind of all prepossess'd opinions and worldly respects in favour of any sect , or in dislike of the true ancient church , so as truly having deposed all obstinate prepossessions of your iudgment , you 'll be easily persuaded that the roman church is the true church , wherein only is salvation to be had : pursue this quest , my lord , suffer not your self to be mis-led by the seducing of flattering blind guides , or obstinacy ; adjourn not this quest ; say not , as felix said to st. paul , acts 24.25 . when i have a convenient season i will call for thee : the world expects your happy return to the glorious liberty of the sons of god. alexander the great , my lord , being asked if he would run at the olympick games , said , i could be content so i might run with kings . begin then to exercise a virtuous ambition , in running after kings at the olympick game for an eternity of never-ending glory in the roman communion ; in so doing you may know that you run with two and twenty brave kings of england that were saints ; you run with king charles ii. ( whose dear favourite you have been ) who by the quick-sighted piercing eye of his natural iudgment said in his speech , that christ can have but one church , and that the same is the roman catholick church ; and that christ left his power to it , even to forgive sins . he desired to know , how came that church to lose that power , and by what authority men separated themselves from it ? his majesty answers saying , that it was , that particular men raised schism for their own advantage . — here , my lord , you see the king leaves the heavy guilt of schism at the door of the protestant sect. you run with our most sacred leige and sovereign king james ii. ( whom god preserve for many many happy years ) whose motto is , let life and three kingdoms lie at stake , before i damn my soul , or true faith forsake . run with king james i. of ever renowned memory , who did acknowledge in open parliament , that the roman catholick church is the only mother-church of all churches , see stow , pag. 840. run finally , ( my lord ) with all the present kings in christendom , excep those of swedeland and denmark , who reign in that cold , cloudy , and sin-darkned northern corner of the world , where heresie is entertained by a company of dull stupid people , that will not penetrate . run , i pray , with the best part of mankind in all ages , with the wisest heads of the world , for unfeigned holiness and learning . run along with these irradiant pole-stars , and you cannot go astray : and it 's an undoubted truth , that the life , example , and heroick actions of a prince , have usually a greater sway upon the minds of his subjects , than his laws ; for the example of a king is a living law , which secretly over-rules mens minds , and bends them to a compliance with it . none can deny this , but those who have their iudgments swallowed up by prejudice , and whose blind passions have over-run their reason . — listen therefore to the voice of heaven , apoca. 18.24 . go out of her , my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues . schism , my lord , and damn'd heresie , ( to which you pertinaciously adhere ) are most grievous plagues , from it redeem your precious soul from forfeiture , that has been this long time mortgaged to death ; for sectae non possi debunt regnum dei ; and non est prudentia , nec concilium contra dominum ; and sapientis est mutare concilium . make it , my lord , your daily prayer to god to settle you in the right . this said , my very good lord , begin to put on ( in the name of ever-glorious iesus ) a noble resolution to shake off those chains and bonds of that monstrous tyrant schism , which detains you in slavery : let the scales of blind misguided zeal fall from your eyes , that you may see to find out a most secure vnerring guide in your iourney towards a happy eternity . — i beseech the father of lights and mercy to illuminate your vnderstanding with beams of his saving grace , that you may learn , embrace , and practise the faith of christ , which shall be the daily prayer of me , who intreats your grace to bestow one grace , which is , to permit me to bear all my life-time the title of your humble chaplain ; being always your most obsequious and faithful servant , i. e. he may be won that longest does resist ; to pray for your return i 'll ne'r desist . i 'll ne'r despair of any , whil'st i see a fruitless tree may next year fruitful be . a winding-sheet for the schism of england . chap. i. the almighty , as a most divine architect , rais'd the fabrick of his church in this world as a medium to salvation ; a man for not hearing this church is term'd in st. matth. 18.18 . a publican or heathen ; protestants segregating themselves , and not hearing this church , are in a most lamentable state . sure a natural unity and connection of the parts among themselves , and to the head , is necessary for the conservation of the natural body : christ promised that there should be unity in his church ; st. iohn 10.16 . they shall be made one fold and one pastor . this unity is most requisite in god's church ; st. iohn 17.11 . christ prayed , that his disciples should be one . and again , 1. cor. 1.10 . i beseech you that you all speak one and the same thing , and that there be no schism among you , but that you be perfect in one judgment . protestants denies , and flyes from this unity , being divided and subdivided ; christ praying : sure his prayer took effect ; his people , his flock , and congregation , being still one in the bonds of peace . the pretended reformation have no unity , differing in most essential points for salvation , therefore no true church ; the roman catholick church , and no other , stands firm and infallible against all the tempests of apostacy , heresie , and schism , and this by her unity and uniformity : sure by confession of protestants , the roman church was once the true church according to st. paul , rom. 1.8 . first , i thank my lord through iesus christ , that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. and again , v. 7. to all that be in rome beloved of god , call'd to the saints , grace to you , and peace . now i say , having it once , how could they but retain the same faith still infallibly ? for no general council even ever yet condemned her of error , none of the holy fathers ever wrote against her , and by no authority was she to this day reproved of schism ; for she left no church or company ever yet , she went not forth from any body or congregation ; how could she ? being infallible in her self , 1 tim. 3.15 . she being the house of god , which is the church of the living god , the pillar and firmament of truth ; if not , why should any be esteemed a heathen and publican for not hearing her ? add to this , christ being the head of the church , the holy ghost the soul thereof guiding and directing in all truth , the church could not err , unless you 'l make christ and his spirit an impostor , and a lyer , which is down-right blasphemy , seeing that he prophesied , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against her , viz. error , falshood , schism , or heresie ; hence i infer by good illation , that any congregation of people despising christ , forsaking his church , and remaining out of it , pertinaciously is guilty absolutely of apostasie and schism , see st. luke 10.16 . he that heareth you heareth me , and he that despiseth you despiseth me , &c. lo the misery of protestants ! who are likewise really guilty of heresie , in adhering to so many false opinions and errors of faith contrary to the generally approved doctrine of the church of christ , from which they wilfully and blindly divided themselves , breaking of communion with the ancient , one holy-catholick apostolick roman church : and sure that church , to which apostacy , schism , and heresy , doth agree , is a false and erroneous church ; and this is the church of the pretended reformation . the power of glorious jesus our redeemer did marvelously shine in the empire of his church , which his heavenly father did put into his hands to build it , raise it , cement it with his sacred blood , to illuminate it with his light , nourish it with his body , to make laws in it , establish sacraments as conveyances of divine graces , to eternize a most dread and propitiatory sacrifice , to create pastors and priests , invisibly to rule it by a visible head , a power never to be shaken even to the gates of hell ; to exercise a jurisdiction over souls , to bind them , unloose them , pardon sins , and change hearts ; and you may know , that this ever blessed jesus having the source of all power in him , did in divine providence distribute the same , his divine power , to popes and kings , constituting the one for spiritual government leading to eternal glory , the other for the temporal ; and it is his will and pleasure we honour the character of that his divine authority , both in the one and the other , and not to argue , controul or impugn , upon idle whimsical phantasies those heavenly powers . and it is most evident , that in all times before heresie began , there has been rendred to popes vicegerents of christ , and lawful successors to st. peter , the honour they deserved as such , and as the sovereign universal visible pastors under heaven ; see the council of calcedon , in epist. ad leonam papam , where the pope is called , caput omnium episcoporum & totius christi ecclesiae . also we confess and acknowledge our sovereign liege-lord and most gra-king iames the second , true and absolute monarch of these his three kingdoms , singularly honouring and obeying him , and with most true , cordial , faithful , loyal affection , loving him as an animated real portraiture of the greatness of the divine majesty ; and sure there is no science more noble , nor more advantageous , than to honour and obey these two powers ; neither can there be any true lasting felicity , but in the accomplishment of the will of the almighty , the sovereign master and ruler of all . on the contrary , it is observed in the history of many ages , that dire vengeance and wounds from heaven have fallen signally upon those who have disobeyed these two powers , for the wind blowing from blasphemous and seditious mouths , returned on their own heads , since it is fit such impiety and horrid iniquity should first kill it self with its own poyson : what the soul is to the body , the same is true religion to a kingdom ; the body without a soul signifies nothing ; even so a kingdom , without true religion , is disjoynted , confused , and comes to ruin ; whereas divine religion in it self is the basis and foundation of all moral virtues , the ground and support of all just pious laws , the cement that strongly combine all human society , and is the very life of upright impartial justice , and constant honesty : finally , true supernatural religion is the golden chain that unites god to man , and man to his duty to god , and brings down the rich blessings to poor mortal sinners on earth . o what a glorious and most happy kingdom is that , where are to be seen , as in a clear optick glass , these two most heavenly objects , the king 's most excellent majesty prostrate on bended knees , paying with ravishing devotion the humble religious homage of heart , hands , and knees , to the divine majesty of almighty god! as a member and obedient child of the visible church of christ , honouring a visible sepreme head vicar of christ , and successor to st. peter , as universal pastor of all pastors . and it is a most undoubted truth , that kings are not made by the invention of active , ambitious , or politick wits , as blind enthusiasts dreams ; neither are they creatures of the people's making , or the product of a giddy multitude , as the independents , with many other seditious blind persons , maintains ; but they are grounded on the very law of nature in high paternal authority coequal with the world , they are founded on the pure law of right reason , which gives a dignity and authority to the first-born over all his brethren , so as kings are rooted in the original laws of nations , as cicero , lib. 3. de legib . testifies ; omnes antiquae gentes regibus paruerunt , all the ancient nations in the world were ruled and governed by kings : they are confirmed by god's unerring law , who instituted kingly government over his own chosen people , deut. 17.15 . and gave express command for david to be anointed king of israel , 1 sam. 16.1 . finally , kings are prophetically promised as a very great blessing to his church ; isa. 49.23 . kings shall be thy nursing fathers , and queens shall be thy nursing mothers . and plato , that seraphick philosopher , calls kingly government the most divine government . herodotus , who is stiled , pater historiarum , the first historian among the heathens , calls it , the most ancient government . aristotle , the most rational of all philosophers , stiles it , the most excellent government , for monarchical . government is the meer imitation of the government of heaven , which is by one god ; 't is the restitution of the primitive government in this world , which was by one king , and it is the meer reflection of the admirable government of nature , which rules the many members of the body by one soul. daily experience proves that ship to be best guided which is steered by one pylot , tho' trimm'd by many saylors ; that army sure is best ordered which is commanded by one general , tho' assisted by many inferiour officers ; ergo , that nation is more happy and best governed by one king ▪ tho' advised by divers prudent and religious counsellors . and even nature gives us a hieroglyphick hereof in the bees , whose sweet commonwealth is ordered by one king : see georg. lib. 4. quemadmodum mirantur & omnes circumstant fremitu denso stipantque frequentes ; they all follow and obey , like little nimble courtiers their little king , &c. all this considered , will not a good judgment see , that to go about to oppose any of these two powers , is to do that which st. austin said , to suffer ones self to run into a folly , which hasten'd into the height of insolency and madness , and in the end find nothing but an ocean of disturbances , and unavoidable perdition and ruin. god bless king iames , our most gracious pole-star , no sooner his royal brother king charles the second , of ever glorious memory , died , but he publickly went to hear mass , confiding in the mercy of ever blessed jesus , who for him doubtless will all safety and prosperity provide . o prodigie never to be duly pondered , for which he is through all the world praised and admired ! magna est veritas & praevalet . we must not meddle with things sacred , but with due reverence ; we must not confound the true churches spiritual authority , with the regal , civil , and temporal , both being distinct in office , and severally given and appointed by the almighty ; they are like the two arms of his divine power employed by him , and distributed to their several uses , the one exercising the meer spiritual and persuasive power , the other the corporal and coercive power ; the one holding the pastoral-directing and soul-corrective staff , the other swaying the royal and all-subjecting scepter ; the one unsheathing the spiritual sword , cutting off by authority disobedient , schismatical , or heretical sinners from the communion of the faithful flock , and from eternal life ; the other brandishing the kingly sword , cutting off the lives of the offenders of established just laws ; and even as god holds this world in his hands that the vast sea and firm land may not mix together , but observe their just bounds , lest they should come to another chaos ; so he will not have those two sovereign distinct dignities be blinded into one , least confusion , and inevitable ruine should follow . sure since king henry the eighth revolted from the monarchical spiritual power of christ's church , nothing to this day followed but confusion , misery , disasters , in this brave kingdom of england , by degrees ascending to height of unheard-of iniquity and tyranny , as to cut off the best of kings charles the first ; assuredly those miscreant hell-hounds that murdered him would not stick to murder even divinity : this is the woful catastrophe of disjoyning the spiritual , from kingly and monarchical government . now i must say this much of the roman catholick church , that , according to st. paul , rom. 1. was , and is yet , and will continue , in perpetuum , famous for faith , religion , sacrifice , and sacraments , throughout the universe , for the sound of her doctrine hath been heard every where , and her fame to the utmost parts of the world , so as it is the same to say roman , as catholick or vniversal ; whereas there , where the roman eagles wings did never spread , the roman faith did , reaching down to all ages , and spreading over all kingdoms ; for who can view christianity in its extent , but must consider how all kingdoms and nations were by roman emissaries converted to the true ancient faith of iesus , we need not make any further enquiries , but embrace and walk confidently in those plain paths in which fools cannot err , following the foot-steps of the true flock and the heavenly good pastor , where alone sanctity , verity , and all virtues , inerrability , infallibility , and perpetuity , are found ; for when , where , or how she ever err'd or fail'd , no authentick author have yet related , no faithful candid writer recorded ; nor have any of those watchful luminaries and sentinels , whom god hath placed in his church , ever given the least alarm of innovations gotten into the same , only schismaticks and hereticks combining , conspiring , and reviling , and in vain . chap. ii. of the church . the church of christ is one society or company of men link'd and combin'd together in one and the same profession of christian faith , religion , sacrifice , and use of sacraments under lawful pastors , and under one supreme visible head pastor , or conservator of peace , union , and verity : this is a true notion or definition of the church established by christ , and propagated by the blessed apostles ; here the true nature , essence , and constitution of a church is manifested , and doth truly distinguish it from all hereticks and schismaticks vain pretences whatsoever , for they are apparently excluded from christ's church , and she appears glorious without spot , wrinkle , or any such thing ; she is described in holy writ by the emblems of a city , orderly govern'd by one chief supreme governour , or of an army govern'd by that military discipline , that requires subjection to one generalissimo , the king had placed over it ; of the body , each member in due subjection to its visible head on earth , and the pope in point of government , rul'd by his invisible head in the highest heaven . hence it followeth by order of good consequence , that divine faith and belief ( wherein consisteth as well the ground and foundation of our eternal welfare , as also the fruit and entire utility of christ's coming into this world ) is to be had in the church , made plain by the prophet esay 45. he foreshewed the wonderful providence of god , in providing for christians so manifest a way of direction for their faith and religion , as that the most simple and unlearned man in the world should not be able ( but out of wilfulness ) to go astray therein , his words directed to the gentiles are these : take comfort , and fear not ; behold your god shall come and save you , then shall the eyes of the blind be opened , and the ears of the deaf shall be restored , and there shall be a path and way , and it shall be called , the holy way ; and it shall be to you a direct way , as fools shall not be able to err therein . sure the plain and direct way mentioned by esay , wherein no simple or ignorant men can err , is the general body of christ's visible church upon earth , planted by his apostles throughout all nations and countries , and continuing by succession unto the world's end ; in which church , who remaineth and believeth all things taught therein , cannot at all fall into any error of faith ; for that this church is guided by christ's spirit , and therefore in no ways subject , or within the compass of error : for which cause , st. paul , ultimo , calls it , the pillar and firmament of truth . and the same church is so conspicuous and evidently manifest , that it is more easie to find it out , than it is to see the sun or moon when it shineth brightest at noon , or to behold the greatest hill or mountain in the world ; and for more declaration of this , it 's to be noted , that in the time from christ's ascension , until the 13 th year of nero's region , who first of the roman emperours began open persecution against christians , and put to death st. peter and st. paul : in this time ( i say ) of toleration under the roman empire , ( which continued the space of 36 years ) the blessed apostles and disciples had preached one uniform gospel and faith throughout all the world , as may appear by their acts recorded , and by the peculiar testimony of st. paul to the romans , rom. 1. which thing being most miraculously done by the divine power and virtue of christ , bishops , pastors , and governours , being ordained in every country and church , for guiding and directing the same by themselves and their successors in perpetuum ; this i say , being once brought to pass , then the blessed apostles , for preventing of new false doctrines that might afterward arise , most earnestly exhorted , and with all vehemency called upon the people to stand fast in the doctrine , documents and traditions then received , to hold firmly the faith and doctrine already delivered as a depositum or treasure committed to them , to be safely kept till the last day . and above all other things , they forewarned them to beware of new fangled teachers , whom they called hereticks , who should break from the unity of the universal body already made and knit together , and should devise new glosses , expositions , and interpretations of scripture , bringing in new sences , doctrines , opinions , and damnable divisions , to the utter renting of christ's church , kingdom , city , already builded , and all this to the perdition of infinite souls . hence it is , that st. paul , tim. 1. pronounceth peremptorily of a contentious and heretical man , that he is damned by the testimony of his own judgment or conscience ; for that he abandoned the common , direct , publick way , which all men might see , devising particular paths and pernicious turnings to himself ; and the ancient fathers of the primitive church disputing against the same kind of people , defended always , that their error was of malice and wilful blindness , and not at all of ignorance ; for they will not behold the plain , direct , sure , safe , unerring , and infallible way among christians , wherein no man can err , tho' never so simple , but only of blind , wilful , and obstinate malice : yet by promises of christ himself in the gospel we are absolutely ascertained , that the same visible congegation , body , common-wealth , church , kingdom , and government , which was established by christ , and propagated by the blessed apostles , shall endure and continue by succession of followers in perpetuum , and that no new teacher of later doctrines dissenting from the first , shall ever prevail against it ; albeit divers errors and heresies have sprung up , and made great blustering and disturbance for a time , yet have they been repress'd and condemn'd by the same church , and her visible pastors and doctors in the end . for example-sake , in the first age there arose up certain seditious fellows among the iews , as simon magus , nicolaus , cerinthus , ebion , meander , &c. that were hereticks ; against these , stood in defence st. peter , who broke the neck and black art of simon magus , even by his prayer : and after him , st. martialis , st. dionysius areopagita , st. ignatius , policarpus , and others . in the second age rose up basilides , cerdon , marchion , valentinus , tacianus , apelles , montanus , and divers others ; against these stood in battel iustin martyr , dionysius bishop of corinth , st. ireneus , clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , with many others , their equals : and so all along downward from age to age unto cursed luther's days , whatsoever heresie , or new false opinions hath been raised contrary to the general consent of christ's universal church , it hath been check'd , controul'd , silenc'd , and condemn'd by vigilant pastors and doctors , chief governours of the same body , by general assemblies and councils gathered from time to time , as occasion serv'd , in all parts of the world : whereby it 's evidently most manifest , that he who relieth upon this general consent of christ's church , and the judgment thereof , cannot err in matters of belief , but walketh in that sure , secure , and infallible path , wherein 't is said in isaiah 35.8 . that a very fool cannot go amiss . hence one may be persuaded of the churches perspicuity and infallibility in her traditions and doctrines through god's divine providence , which did and will always preserve it from corruption , having a warrant for it out of scripture , isa. 59.21 . my spirit which is upon thee , and the words which i have put into thy mouth , shall not depart out of thy mouth , nor out of the mouth of thy seed , nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed , from henceforth for ever . and st. austin said , ep. 118. that to dispute against a living multitude of the whole church , is insolent madness . and to say , she may err through ignorance , wilfulness , or negligence , is most absurd and blasphemous , she having christ for her head , and the holy ghost for her guide and spirit , who was sent by our saviour to teach it all truth ; wherefore to tax that heavenly government with errors in faith , is either to tax the holy ghost with them , or to blaspheme against christ our blessed redeemer , by saying , he has not kept his word and promise , in sending the holy ghost to teach his church all truth for ever . king iames , in a publick speech made in his parliament , acknowledged the church of rome to be our mother-church , saying , i acknowledge the church of rome to be our mother-church : this you may find in stow , pag. 840. sure the sacred blood of his glorious mother queen mary , the ever blessed martyr , ran in the veins of this her royal son king iames , who would do wonderful things in favour of the roman catholick church , if it were not for the black contriving of the gun-powder plot by the matchevilian policy of crooked cicil , only for to hinder king iames from favouring the church of christ ; sanguis mantirum semen ecclesiae . see osburn . sure there is no other certain testimony to any prudent considering man , no firm ground or motive to believe , that the primitive church received her doctrine from the blessed apostles , these from christ , christ from god the father ; nor any way to bring it down from those times to these our days , but only the tradition of the church from hand to hand . for we may observe three properties of the doctrine of divine faith to be true , to be revealed of god , to be preached and delivered by the apostles . the highest ground by which a man is perswaded that his faith is true , is the authority of god speaking and revealing it ; the highest proof by which a man is assured that his faith is revealed , is the authority of christ , and his blessed apostles , who delivered the same as descending from god ; but the highest ground that moveth a man to believe , that his faith was preached by the blessed apostles , is the perpetual constant tradition of the church succeeding the blessed apostles unto this day , assuring him so much according to the saying of tertul. depraes . c. 21. & 37. who made his ladder of belief thus : what i believe i received from the present church , the present from the primitive , the primitive from the blessed apostles , these from christ , christ from god , and god , the prime supreme fountain of verity , from no other fountain different from his infallible knowledge : so as we must cleave to the present church firmly , believing the constant tradition thereof successively . so as if any have taught contrary points of faith than what is revealed , the catholick church hath condemned them for hereticks ; which is a sufficient proof , that until such heretical spirits , some one or more traditions of the church , were universally believed : as for example ; the doctrine of christ's consubstantiality , or being of the same substance with the father , no man of reason will deny , but that it was generally believed in the church before the days of the arch-heretick arrius , and that the council of nice condemning him , was a sufficient proof , that the doctrine he opposed was the universal tradition of the church , by force and vertue whereof he was overthrown , and not by scripture only . the various ridiculous attempts of protestants had hitherto no better success than achelous had in fighting with hercules , who took upon him several shapes , hoping in one or other to overcome him , but was by hercules beaten through all his shapes , and forced at last to take his own proper shape , and yield : even so protestants fighting against roman catholicks are daily by them beaten thro' all their changes , forms , shifts , and inventions , through which they wander , yet are forced at last to take their true form of protestancy , which is obstinately to deny , and even protest against manifest truth , against general councils , holy fathers , and consent of all nations . but i do heartily pray , that it would please god to bring them to the true ancient heavenly form which they ought to have , which is , of roman catholick , and not perpetually roul like the blinded sodomites , wander and grope in the darkness of uncertainty and instabibity , until eternal torments seize upon them . one great egregious fraud you may observe amongst the canonical protestants , viz. that when they dispute against roman catholicks , they have recourse to the scripture , and will be tryed by that only ; but when they dispute against puritans , and other sectaries , who can deal with them at their own weapon , the scripture only , then they have their recourse to the fathers , and the old tradition of the church , just using the very same arguments against sectaries that catholicks do against them ; particularly in the baptising of infants , against the anabaptists ; and the keeping of the first day of the week holy , against the sabbatarians who would have saturday , for either of which there is not any command in scripture . and shall tradition serve them in those cases , and not in others ? and this shift is such a one as st. augustin , psal. 80. witnesses , to be common to foxes , and now to hereticks ; for even as the foxes have two holes , to save themselves by one , when they are driven from the other ; so hereticks ( whom the scripture figured out by foxes , cant. 2.15 . ) have a double passage to save themselves , by the one when they are assaulted by the other ; so that he that will catch them , must set his nets before both issues , and besiege both passages : as ever yet to this day , the excellent writers among catholicks have done , and have left them neither tradition nor scripture , whereby to escape confusion , and the shame of schism and heresie ; for it is but folly to pretend to secure by human crafty arts that which god is resolved to destroy . an appendix . protestants corrupts scripture in their translations most shamefully , wickedly and impiously , for to make good and justifie their schism : to make catholicks idolaters , they in the year 1562. corrupted the scripture , 2. cor. 6. how agreeth the temple of god with idols ! they translated and printed in the english bible , how agreeth the temple of god with images ! the same wickedness they practise in 1. cor. 5. if any that is called a brother be a fornicator , covetous , or server of idols ; they printed in the year 1562. or a worshipper of images . it were too tedious a business to specifie all their false and absurd translations , by which they brought the word of god to be ridiculous to the world . priest , in their language , is elder ; church , synagogue ; holy ghost , holy wind ; soul , carcass ; christ , anointed ; lord , baal ; eucharist , thanksgiving ; baptism , washing ; hell , grave ; devil , slanderer ; beelzebub , lord of a fly ; angels , messengers : so that an exhortation to devotion in the protestant scripture-language , will move men more to laughter than to piety ; whereas in the catholick translation and phrase , it moves to compunction . suppose a catholick priest should exhort the people thus : i who am a priest , placed in the church by the holy ghost for the feeding of your souls , do denounce to you in the name of christ our lord , that unless you come to the eucharist with more devotion , and perform better your promises made to god in baptism , ye shall be condemned body and soul to hell , and your portion shall be with the devil , i say , with beelzebub and his angels : sure this exhortation in the protestant language of scripture goes very absurdly . let us suppose , that a young spruse protestant minister should step up to the pulpit , and repeat the priests exhortation in his own corrupt phrase , thus : i that am your elder , placed in the synagogue by the holy wind , for the feeding of your carcasses , do denounce unto you in the name of the anointed , our baal , that unless you come to the holy thanksgiving with more devotion , and perform better your promises made to god in washing , ye shall be condemned body and carcass to the grave , and your portion shall be with the slanderers , i say , with the lord of a fly , and his messengers . how therefore can any man of reason and judgment joyn in communion with such impious sectaries that thus corrupts the holy word of god , for to keep souls in schism , heresie , and damnation : away , away ! fie , fie on such hellish practises ! the main thing protestants deny , is the antiquity of the doctrine of the roman church , saying most impudently , that the primitive fathers taught the protestant doctrine , and not that which the roman church now-adays teacheth , which is found to be most false by the examination of particulars . let us take a view of the roman doctrines as they were held in s. augustine's days , and the four first general councils which were held between the year 315 , and 457 , to which four councils protestants give much honour , and subscribe to their decrees : sure in those times the church believed in the true and real presence of the eating with the mouth the body of christ in the eucharist , as zuinglius , the prince of the sacramentarians , acknowledge , in these words : from the time of st. augustin , the opinion of corporal flesh had really got the mastery ; st. aug. lib. de vera & falsa religione cap. de eucharistia : and was adored with outward gestures as the true body of christ ; in concil . ephes. in epist. and nestor . in concil . nicaen . c. 14. to give prime honour , and supreme , to st. peter , bishop of the first see , as universal pastor and vicegerent of christ ; concil . nicaen . c. 15. concil . chalced. act. 4. & 16. constit . c. 5. to pray to saints , that they may intercede for us ; in concil . chalced. act. 11. prayers for the dead offered publickly and privately in st. augustin's time ; august . de cura pro mortuis . in those days the church held the fast of forty days of lent as apostolical tradition ; st. hier. ad marcel . ep. 54. fridays likewise confession and priestly absolution ; st. august . homil. 49. saith , the keys given to the church is to some purpose sure : we must not frustrate the words of christ. so st. basil , tertullian , st. clement , &c. and thus of all other points in controversy we may find reason , authority , practice , and uninterrupted custom in all ages , as napier in his treatise on the revelations , pag. 145. confesseth , saying ; after 300 years , the emperour constantine subdued all christian churches to pope silvester , from which time , till these our days , the pope and his clergy hath possess'd the outward and visible church ; protestants employment being not at all to convert heathens , but to pervert those already converted ; tertul. praescr . c. 42. and we may find in the writings of roman catholick authors , orthodox fathers , that the doctrine now held by protestants , were condemned as heretical in those persons that then held them . for example : the protestant hold , that the church may err ; so did the donatists who were condemned by st. augustin . potestants deny unwritten tradition , and urge scripture only ; so did the arrians , and were condemned by st. augustin and epiphanius . protestants teach , that priests may marry ; so did vigilantius , and condemned by st. hierom , contr . vigilant . c. 1. protestants deny prayers for the dead , so did arrius , condemned by st. august . haer . 53. and st. epiphan . haer . 75. protestants deny invocation of saints ; so did vigilantius , for which he was condemned by st. hierom , contra vigilant . c. 3. protestants deny the real presence ; so did the capernaits , and berengarius , who reclaimed and did penance . protestants deny confession of sins to a priest ; so the novatian hereticks did , reproved and condemned by st. ambros. lib. de penitent . c. 7. so did the montanists , condemned by st. hierom , epist. ad marcel . 54. i leave off an addition of many other points , which makes really the new-moulded protestant sect appear but a meer frippery or hodge-podge of old condemned heresies . hence you may understand , that the doctrine of the roman church is this day , as it was 1600 years ago , still one , holy , catholick , apostolick , and unchang'd ; grounded on such a solid unshaken foundation , that it is never to be brought down by the gates of hell , i. e. heresie , schism , apostacy , wranglings , foolish fopperies , lyings , railings , &c. now sir , if you are sufficiently toss'd and wearied out with variety of disputes , and desire to put an end to them now , follow the guide and direction of the roman catholick church in faith , religion , sacraments , sacrifice , and doctrine ; all which are derived from christ himself to his blessed apostles , from the apostles down to us , and is to continue in the same heavenly channel of succession unto the end of the world : which roman catholick church hath obtain'd supreme authority from the apostolick see , by a wonderous succession of bishops , by the judgment of the people , by the gravity and authority of councils ; and lastly , by the majesty of miracles : and not to submit to this divine authority , sure is the height of impiety , and precipitant arrogancy , and not to dotages of particular idle intruders . now as rebellion is the bane of civil government in kingdoms , and peace and concord the preservation of the same ; so is schism , division , and diversity of faith , the ruin and calamity of the church ; and unity , peace , and uniformity , the special blessing of god therein , and in the church above all commonwealths , because it is in all points a monarchy tending every way to unity , there being but one god , one christ , one church , one faith , one hope , one head , one body , one baptism . christ's church is a society of those that god hath called to salvation , by the profession of the true faith , religion , dread sacrifice , the sincere administration of sacraments , and the adherence to a lawful pastor , as head ; which description is so fitted and proportioned to the church , that it resembles the nest of the halcyon , which according to plutarch is of such a just and exact size for the measure of her body , that it can serve no other bird , either greater or lesser . since christianity is a doctrine of faith , a doctrine whereof all men are capable of ; and since the high virtue of faith is in the humility of our understanding , and the merit thereof in the ready obedience to embrace it ; what madness it is for any man to tire out his soul , to wast away his spirits in tracing out all the thorny paths of the main controversies of these our backsliding days , wherein to err is easie and dangerous , what through the malice of authors abusing him , what through sophistry beguiling him , what through blind passion and prejudice transporting him ; and not rather betake himself to the right way of truth , whereunto christ , reason , nature , and experience , do all give witness ; and that is , to associate himself to that church established by christ , whereunto the custody of a heavenly and supernatural truth hath been from heaven it self committed , to weigh and find out discreetly which is the true church , to receive it chearfully and discreetly without doubt or discussion , whatsoever it delivers , without any farther inquisition ; she having the warrant , that he that hears her , hears christ ; and whosoever hears her not , hath no better place with god than a publican and pagan : and what folly is it now to receive scriptures upon the credit of her authority , and not to receive the interpretation of them upon her authority and credit also ? sure if god should not always protect his church from error , and yet peremptorily commanding men upon pain of damnation to obey her always , then had he made very slender provision for the salvation of mankind ; which conceit concerning god would render us very ungratefully impious . these considerations or motives may very easily perswade persons of reason and piety to embrace and maintain that which they know to be the religion of their fore-fathers , before her adversaries had a name , her doctrine having had a very long continuance ; which cannot easily be supposed , in the present possessors , to be a design , since they have received it down from so many ages ; and it is not likely that all ages should have the same purposes , or that the same doctrine should serve the several different ends of divers ages , relying upon the grounds ; to wit , that truth is more ancient than falshood , and that god would not for so many ages forsake his church , and leave her in error , schism , or novelty . again ; let us consider the exceeding beauty and splendor of her churches , her solemn service , stateliness and magnificence of her hierarchy , the name of catholick which she claims as her own due , and to concern no other sect of hereticks ; the wondrous continual succession of her popes , of an honourable and most certain line of 250 popes , successors of st. peter ; both tyrants , traytors , pagans , apostate hereticks , in vain wresting , raging , combining , conspiring , and undermining it : let us reflect , that beside the roman church , and such others as are united with it , you will find all other churches to have failed , and have an end or decay long since , or their beginning of late . the roman church was founded by the prince of the apostles , with a promise to him from christ , that hell gates should never prevail against it , mat. 16.18 . and that himself would be assistant to it to the consummation of the world. all the lawful general councils that ever were in the world have approved and honoured it , condemning its adversaries . god so miraculously hath blessed it from above , that very many famous , learned , wise , and godly doctors in all ages , have enriched it with their writings , legions of saints with their rare holiness and virtues , millions of martyrs with their blood , many millions of virgins with purity of soul and body have sanctified and embellished it : and even at this day of unjust rebellions , apostacy and cursed schism of her revolted children , she stretcheth out her arms to the utmost corners of the world , daily and newly embracing whole nations into her bosom . mark how that in all sects opposite are found inward dissensions , contrarieties , change of opinions , uncertainty of resolutions in matters of faith , rebelling against governours , and daily confusion of order ; whereas contrariwise in the roman church there is unity , uniformity undivided , and resolutions unaltered , a most heavenly order ; all with admirable harmony , and undefective correspondence , bending the same one way to the effecting of one and the same work : wherefore let no man doubt to submit himself and judgment to this glorious spouse of jesus christ , reverently obeying her in all things ; whose authority every man may safely follow and rely upon , she being so happy in being instrumental in converting all nations from infidelity by unfeigned miracles , and , among many other things , the names of hereticks and schismaticks which she fathers upon all those that disagree and revolt from her bosom . this brings me to mind that saying of st. hierom , lib. 1. c. 14. contra iovinian , concerning st. peter's primacy : amongst the twelve apostles one was chosen , that a head being constituted and appointed , all occasion of schism might be taken away . melanghton holds , that the primacy is most necessary for the retaining and preserving of unity , and adhering to the roman catholick see. seeing therefore , that controversies in religion in these our times are grown in number so many , and in matters so intricate , that few have time and leisure , fewer strength of understanding to examine them , it remains for men desirous of satisfaction in things of such consequence , diligently to search out which church hath divine revealed faith in it , and the same to embrace , follow , and practise . st. paul says , that faith is the substance of things to be hoped for , and an argument or demonstration of things not appearing to us . i wonder that st. paul calls faith a substance , when it is but an accident ; we must understand st. paul thus : even as the substance is the foundation & stress of the accidents , as of quantity , quality , relation , &c. all cleaving and adhering to their substance , so as if those accidents become separated from their substance , then the substance will be reduc'd to a punctum indivisibile ; even so divine faith , if it be not whole and entire , believing all and every article and principle revealed , preached , and handed down from christ and his apostles ; then faith will be no divine faith , but is become a folly , phantasm , and illusion ; it must be a faith animated with charity , piety , obedience , &c. that will avail for salvation . for suppose you believe the incarnation , resurrection , ascension of christ , with all other mysteries belonging to his divinity and humanity , and not to believe the real presence , auricular confession , purgatory , &c. you have no faith for salvation : as if but one wheel of your pocket watch be broken , nay if but one tooth of it be broken , your watch serves for nothing ; so one article of faith denied , destroys faith. sure he that admitted a leak in his ship , drowns it ; and he that divides faith , believing some points , and denying other points , comes to have no faith at all ; for all that comes from one and the same divine authority , ought to be believed with like equality , reverence , and submission : doing otherwise , is to suffer ones self to run headlong into real blindness , which hasten'd to the height of insolency and madness ; and to have nothing so assured as incertainty , nothing so undoubted as the loss of true faith transform'd into a real schism , the headlong descent of a horrible precipice , to never ending scorching flames . chap. iii. appendix to the former chapter . the almighty god independent and immense in his extent , eternal in his duration , infinite in his perfections , glorious in his mercies , and mysterious in the wonderous communication and dispensation of his favours , mercies , and graces to man , above all sublunary creatures ; for the apostate angels are lost without redemption , and the punishment their insolent pride hath merited , doth pursue them without relaxation , term , or pity ; it is man therefore who must be plac'd and substituted in the empty seats of angels . o mercy ! never to be duly ponder'd ! lo god the fountain , cause , and origin of the universe , drew man out of dirt and morter , as the master-piece and prime substance of all his operations ; it was man that deserved the last wonderous touches of his omnipotent hands ; so , as plato cryes out , calling man the miracle of all visible miracles , it 's certain , that of all encomiums given to man , the most noble , august , and transcendent , is , that he is created to the image of god as a character of his divine nature : herehence god's goodness requires homages , his majesty all worship and acknowledgments , and affections of all hearts . now we are to consider , that god , when he created man , did not assign him to remain in the state of pure nature , but did out of his goodness confer on him original righteousness and grace , and after did endow him with supernatural means , which may bring him to the supernatural end he was created for , viz. the vision , fruition , and possession of heavenly glory for all eternity . now a supernatural end must require a supernatural means , whereas by no natural helps we can arrive to be compleatly happy in the next life , then of all supernatural means or gifts , the ground and stress of all the rest , is divine , unerring revealed faith. now the master and author of that doctrine we must believe , the instructor of the actions we must perform , and the promiser and performer of the final happiness we may hope for is god himself , who cannot deceive or be deceiv'd , he being the prime verity . via veritas & vita . — so as faith is not grounded upon our weak natural judgment or ratiocination , but upon obedience to the church . faith is a gift of god , a supernatural quality infused by god into our souls , by which we firmly believe all things revealed to us ; without faith , its impossible to please god , heb. 11.6 . and , he that believed not , shall be damned ; mark ult . v. 16. so as every one ought to know that there is a sovereign and blessed end , viz. eternal glory ; then every one ought to love and heartily wish to attain to the same , and earnestly seek out for those means and helps prescrib'd and ordain'd by god for the compassing it . then in the first place we must find out divine faith , which partly proceeds from god as the source and author thereof , as prima veritas : and altho' those things we believe by faith cannot be known by evident demonstration , yet because they are taught us by supernatural means , we are more certain of their truth than of all other things , because those things are deliver'd over to us by a more certainly infallible teacher , the spirit of truth , the holy ghost : therefore enter i pray into a serious consideration of the end , for which you and all were created , viz. the glory of god , and your eternal happiness ; and for the knowledge of the means to attain thereunto , you may find by the consent of all christians , this cannot be gotten by clear and evident sight , nor by human discourse founded on the principles of reason , nor by reliance upon authority meerly human , but only by faith grounded on the word of god , revealing to men things that are otherwise , only known to his infinite wisdom . now god sure revealed all these things to jesus christ , and he to his blessed apostles , as he saith , iohn 15.15 . all things which i have heard from my father , i have made known to you : this partly by word of mouth , but principally by the immediate teaching of the holy ghost ; to the end , that they should deliver them after to mankind , to be received , believed , and obeyed over the whole world in perpetuum , as it is said , matth. 28.19 . go teach all nations . sure they did accordingly preach to all nations , as it 's said by st. mark 16.20 . they going forth , did preach every where ; and so planted an universal christian company , charging them to keep inviolable , and to deliver to their posterity what they have received from them as the first messengers of the gospel , as st. paul said to timothy , 2 tim. 2.2 . the things that thou hast heard of many witnesses , the same commit thou to faithful men , who may instruct others . now tho' the blessed apostles and their hearers be departed out of this life , yet still there remains a means now in the world , by which all men may assuredly know what the apostles preached , and the primitive church received of them , seeing the church to the end must be built on the apostles , and believe nothing as matter of faith beside that which was delivered of them , as st. paul said , ephes. 2.20 . are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets , iesus christ being the chief corner stone . scripture is a light only to the faithful , because known from the church's tradition to be from the apostles , by the apostles authority confirmed by miracles to be of god , by god's supreme verity , who cannot deceive nor be deceived , to be the truth : so scripture is a light which must be shewed by a superiour light , before it become light . the church therefore must guide us to know the truth of scripture , as st. austin said , contra epist. fundamenti , c. 5. i would not believe the gospel it self , unless the authority of the church catholick did move me . the word that is written tells us , that all is not written ; as st. paul , 2. thes. 2.15 . exhorts us to keep both the written and unwritten , saying , stand fast and keep traditions which you have learned by word , or by our epistle . it is manifest , that the first church of god from the creation until moses , which was about 2000 years , had no word of god but what was unwritten ; which we call tradition from hand to hand . and we do not read that the apostles were sent to write , but to preach : and s. iohn denies , that he had expressed in writing all that he had to say , saying , having more things to write to you , i would not by paper or ink , for i hope that i shall be with you and speak mouth to mouth , that your ioy may be full : by which it is evident , that the blessed apostles , beside their writings , did preach other things which were wanting to their faith . and it 's manifest , that what the apostles did write , was but accidental , and upon particular occasions . see hooker . eccles. pol. lib. 1. sect. 15. p. 87. for instance ; the epistles of st. peter , iames , iohn , and iude , were written against certain hereticks , who misunderstanding st. paul , did teach that faith only without works sufficed to salvation : see st. aug. de fide & operib . c. 14. and st. iohn did not preach his gospel till his last age ( which was very long ) without writing , and took occasion to write ( as st. ierom , de scriptor . eccles. affirms ) by reason of the heresie of ebionites then broke out . the like may be shewed of the rest . and take what is worth observation : that all epistles were written to such persons only as were already converted to the christian faith , therefore were written not so much to instruct , as to confirm ; this zuinglius also confesseth , tom. 2. lib. de eccl. fol. 43. by all which its evident , that the apostles and evangelists did write their books not by command of christ , but upon some accidental occasion moving them thereunto ; and very many were saved before any scripture , and that only by tradition , which was before scripture ; for the invention of printing was not in the world till about 230 years ago , and the bibles that were written being but few , by reason of the great labour of writing them ; and those that were written , not purchaseable but by few , because of their great price ; nor legible but by very few , because they were not printed , but written by hand ; and sure god by his providence did and will always preserve his church from extinction and corruption , having warrant for it out of scripture , and no warrant for the preservation of the text , the church being a thing more easily known than scripture , and consisting of a living multitude , can express it self more plainly by the mouth and tradition of the church ; tradition being plain and easie doctrine concerning the common , capital , and practical articles of christianity ; but scripture , full of high , mysterious , and hidden sences , furnished with variety of parables , examples , histories , revelations , figures , allegories , so as it cannot be proved directly to be the word of god but by tradition . the christians of the primitive age , on pain of damnation , held nothing of faith , but what they received from christ and his blessed apostles ; for moral and apostolical tradition without written scripture , or written books , was the means of planting and conserving christian religion ; see st. paul , galat. 21.8 . altho' we or an angel from heaven preach to you , besides that which we have preached to you , he be anathema . and again , 2 thes. 15. therefore brethren stand ye fast , and hold ye the traditions which ye have learned , whether by word or by our epistle . sure apostolical tradition is the sure guide by which we may infallibly be assur'd what doctrin for salvation christ and his blessed apostles left many years before any thing was written or printed . chap. iv. the scripture of protestants decry'd . first , i say , that all sectaries , tho' never so many , and opposite one to another , have ever risen , and have still pretended to scripture ; nay , the devil urged his temptation with a scriptum est , matth. 4. and so many frequently deprave the scriptures to their own perdition , 2 pet. 3. i decline not scripture , but allow , admit , and embrace it , as containing that irrefragable doctrine , which eminent persons in the church of god penn'd , even a thousand years before printing was invented : scripture is a good instrument to draw men from paganism to chistianity , but not protestants to the catholick faith. when the christian explicit articles of faith prepared and delivered to us by our primitive pastors , according as they had received them from christ ( the prime inventor ) were rashly annull'd , taken away , and rejected by sectaries ; and the bible put into all hands , for to search and find out by our own skill the results and principles of religion implicitly couch'd in the bible ; is not this extream madness and tyranny to souls ? is it not a tyrannous cheat , and an abuse hardly to be parallell'd , to put men to seek for a thing with a fore-imprinted prejudice of that they go about to find , and seek for faith with a prejudice against faith ? with such-like prejudice do the english people read the bible , being afore-hand advised by their reformers fully to believe that the catholick mass is abomination ; the real presence , a late invention ; the merit of good works , a dream ; fasting and mortification of sensual appetites , folly and madness ; the indifferency of man's free will to good or evil , an error ; the making a vow , a chimera ; restitution or satisfaction of injuries done , a prejudicial mistake ; all expiation of our sins , an inexpiable crime ; honour to blessed saints , idolatry ; sacrifice , altars , and the whole priesthood of christ , prophaneness ; the conscionable practice of sobriety , justice , and piety , necessary to eternal life , detestable popery ; for god's sake , what good can accrew to the drooping soul of an heretick by reading of scripture with these prejudices , these diabolical anticipations , these antichristian preconceptions , these meer obstructions to all faith , grace , and salvation ? yet thus forewarn'd and prepossess'd , all sectaries read the scripture , no sound or solid fruit arising thence to their souls but hardness of heart , pride , schism , sencelesness of god's judgments , desperateness in all sin and injustice : sure the scripture do little or no good , but as it is presented by the church , and received with her interpretation , and practised in her bosom . the ark of god , so long as it was upheld by the priests , comforted and sanctified them ; but look'd into , or touch'd by others , destroy'd them ; nor was it to them an ark of salvation , but an offence , and occasion of fall : therefore it was a heavenly caution that which we received by a voice from heaven , act. 10. things that god hath sanctified , do not make common . we see scripture takes up figures , allegories , parables , &c. wherein are inclosed truths of a differing strain to what the letter relates , which will cause an obscurity almost invincible , even to church-men , singularly assisted , and inspired . it is therefore but madness to undertake labour and hazard for naught . the law and government of the messias differs from the law of moses in this , that one was committed to paper , but the doctrine of jesus should be written in the heart and entrails of his church : he is a god that writes on the paper of the heart unto eternity indelible tenets . the law of christ is written not with ink , but with the spirit of the living god ; not in tables of stone , but in fleshly tables of the heart , promising to animate the body of his church with his own spirit , which should lead them into all truth ; so as in very truth , scripture of the new testament was drawn by the rule of our traditional doctrine , and explicit faith , and not our explicit faith gathered out of them ; neither was ever any general council called together to teach the church her doctrine , but upon the rising of heresies judging by the rule of tradition , declared against heretical innovations : here i infer how they are bereaved of human understanding , that do not see palpably , that a pretended church which begun by breach of promises to god , by sacrileges and impurities of apostates , by general revolt against kings , against divine and human laws , by the filth and ordure of the carrion and caitive flesh , by the dissolution of good manners , by blood , furies , and confusion , could not come and take its source from the divine spirit ; yet they boldly say , they find scripture of their side . ah lamentable illusion ! to whom did the scripture send them , but to the priests and lawful pastors ? what said the scripture unto them , but that they ought to keep the traditions , and obey prelates ? that they must not trust to their own judgment , but captivate it in matters of faith ; and that it was better to believe with holy simplicity , than question with a proud curiosity : and it 's observable , how the poor deluded people in england , after using their bible now above a hundred years , how they have a church without apostolical preachers ; these without character , mission , priesthood , or divine jurisdiction , sheep without true pastors , faithful without churches , christians without sacraments , temples without altars , altars without sacrifices , religion without form or fashion , a law without obedience , a faith without works and grace ; yet they all peruse scripture , and all is , but that they overthrow themselves by these scripture ways , by which they seek to establish themselves ; for if we ought not to believe any thing but that which is written , in what place of their bible will they find , that the revealed , positive , and affirmative principles of our church must be denied and abrogated ? in what place will they shew , that these words , hoc est corpus meum , must be understood figuratively , not really ? in what place will they find , that sunday must be kept holy , and not saturday ? where will they find , that there are but two sacraments ? where , that children who cannot yet believe , or answer for themselves , are to be baptized ? &c. and so many other things of this nature , which makes us sufficiently understand , they ruine themselves by their own hands and weapon , the bible , which they force and wrest , to fit it to their depraved purposes . alas poor deluded pretenders ! to whom do you trust your souls for salvation , your honours and lives , having blindly rejected the old belief and truths of your fore-fathers upon a bare pretext of scripture , cast and moulded on the heads of changeable men ? let us therefore follow and embrace the generality , the antiquity , and common consent ; let 's hold what is held every where , and always , and by all , so it be authorised by the divine law , and the catholick church's tradition . let us now see what the ministers of protestantism oppose against so many infallible proofs , to cover their want of antiquity , mission , succession , miracles , sanctity , judgment , and reason ? they cease not to buzz out every where a false pretext of scripture 〈…〉 ich verily is the greatest illusion that can be imaginable ; for these pitiful ones seeing themselves batter'd on every side from the beginning of reformation , know well in their consciences that the scripture is against them ; yet say they , to mock at the faith of mankind , and lead souls to atheism , we must avoid the decision of a power lively and lawful , we must only take colour from the holy text , we will make it say what we list , we will maintain nothing is to be believed but what is written , we will disguise it with glosses and consequences to catch these who seem to have reason and wit. behold the only means to colour their pretences ! who are endued with sufficient and solid judgment , cannot but consider and discover how deceitful , weak , and ruinous , their foundation is . now behold the powerful and invincible reasons , which made st. austin resolve upon the religion we profess : many great reasons ( said he ) with much reason keep me in the obedience of the catholick church , the consent of people and nation 〈…〉 hold me , the authority of the same 〈…〉 , which is risen up by miracles , m 〈…〉 ed with hope , augmented by charity , established by its antiquity , the succession of bishops holds me therein ; which begins in the seat and authority of st. peter , to whom god recommended the care of his flock , is maintained to this day . lastly , the name catholick holds me to it , adding contra epist. manichaei , he would not believe the gospel it self , if he were not convinced by the authority of the church . what can be more clear ? yet tho' the scripture doth so straitly recommend unto us in the practise of humility ( the seat of grace ) not to make our selves over-wise , or able , rom. 12. not to rest upon our own proper judgment or prudence , prov. 35. to hearken to our fore-fathers , to obey pastors who have lawful succession , to work out our salvation in fear and trembling . what may a man think of a protestant sect which authorizeth a peculiar spirit , which hath ever been the seminary of all schisms and disorders in church and state , which without distinction puts the scripture into all hands to judge of points of faith : verily , from hence it is an admirable thing , to behold how the petty spirits of silly artificers , mechanicks , and even simple women busie themselves with their bible , and to what degree of pride they come , when abused by some imaginary text of scripture , they are puffed up with their own poor ability , flattering themselves ( deluded souls ) by some text not rightly understood , with assurance of salvation and predestination in the greatest exorbitancies , and neglects of life : what pride more irregular than this , to see men not content with the religion practised in england's three conversions , doing all they can to deifie their own opinions ? what pharisee ever came near this height of pride ? yet the bible they daily read and use . verily i plainly see , they must hereafter live in re-union ; it is the spirit of god that commands it , and will effect it in due time . whereas now a days shism and faction has evidently prevailed over unity , pride over humble submission to reveal'd truth , and ill stubborn nature over real truth . chap. v. plain testamonies of holy scripture both old and new , for the church's infallibility . we read that the jewish synagogue had a supream court of judicature to end all arising difficult controversies from whence there was no appeal , because god promised that the judge there , should shew them the sentence and threatned death , to those who should do presumptiously , and not harken to the priest or judge , deut. 17.8 . nay , christ himself commanded the people even in his time to do as they said , who sate in moses chair , but not to do as they did , matth. 23.3 . so that till the spirit of god forsook the synagogue it was to be obeyed , and by consequence was secured from giving a false sentence in necessaries to salvation . and can we imagine that god would leave his spouse , his church , without this so great a priviledge , to whom a covenant with better promises hath been given , heb. 8. the prophesies that speak of the churches , the new law tells us , that there shall be in those daies a way of holiness , that the way-faring men , tho' fools , shall not err therein , isa. 35.8 . furthermore the prophesies tells , that god had made a covenant with his church , that his spirit shall be upon her , and his words which he had put into her mouth shall not depart out of her mouth , nor out of the mouth of her seed , nor out of the mouth of her seed's seed for ever saith the lord , isa. 59.20.21 . therefore no errors , read besides the 60. chapter of isa. say , that all nations that will not serve her shall perish , she will suck the breasts of kings , that her sun shall not go down , nor her moon withdraw it self , but the lord shall be to her an everlasting light , sure ; this is to secure her from teaching false doctrine , or falling into idolatry ; the most abhorred of all vices . from the new-testament , christ promises that he will build his church upon a rock , and that the gates of hell ( which the fathers interpret error and heresie ) shall not prevail against it , matth. 16.18 . that he will be with her pastors and preachers , even to the end of the world , amen . matth. 28.20 . that he will send them another comforter , the spirit of truth to abide with them for ever , iohn 14.16 . to teach them all things and to bring all that he has taught them , to their remembrance ver . 26. and that he shall guide them in all truth . chap. 16. v. 15. moreover he has laid an injunction upon all persons to hear his church under the severe sentence of being look'd upon as heathens and publicans : matth. 18.17 . christ told his disciples and their successors , that who heard them heard him , luke 10.16 . he commanded to teach all nations , and told them , that they who believed should be saved , and that they who believed not should be damn'd , math. 28.19 . mark 16.15 . o soveraign and heavenly promises , priviledges , and graces of the true catholick roman churches infallibility . add to this how the apostles tell us , that the chuch of the living god is the pillar and ground of truth , 1 tim 3.15 . sure we may securely rely upon her , and they assure us that christ gave his son , apostles , prophets , evangelists , pastors and teachers for the perfection of the saints ; that henceforth we may be no more children tossed to and fro , &c. eph. 4. are not these plain and wondrous texts of scripture , and cannot you see clearly an infallible assistance promised to the directing and guiding men , that they should not be carried about with every wind of false doctrine by the slght and wiles of men , and cunning craftiness , whereby some lie in wait for to deceive : no other congregation under the sun , but the roman catholick church can stand up or pretend to these great priviledges , it follows that protestants are as they aver , fallible ; saying so , they tell all the world an infallible truth , and thereupon we may be infallibly assured that they always are failable and fallible . and hence it follows , whilst protestants themselve declare they are fallible , they can no ways pretend to be the infallible church of christ : for if the word of god should have the first place , and serve as a basis , for the perpetuating of a church infallible , ( as it is most reasonable ) i incessantly challenge ministers to shew but one only text of scripture express , formal , and irreprovable , contrary to the articles of the roman catholick church ; sure this they could never yet perform , for hitherto they have produc'd nothing but semblances , stories , lyes and railings , for to delude weak inferior judgments of the giddy multitude , being unable to make them good before considering and learned understanding men : and if a lawful succession , sacred mission , character and real consecration of true pastors be required , which is absolutely necessary for the establishment of an ecclesiastical hierarchy ; the roman church can shew , that from the apostles hitherward , our popes and other inferior pastors , do all to this day successively follow one another , above two hundred and thirty popes — magna est veritas & prevalet . if the authority of councils be requisite , which are the sinews , mouths and living oracles of religion ; in the revolution of sixteen ages , all councils will be found , call'd for to confirm the roman church , & confute and condemn her adversaries . if the interpretations of holy doctors ( who have been the lights of their times , instruments of the holy ghost , and secretaries of the divinity ) they all with one accord and consent , speak for the roman church , condemning loudly the errors and schism of new sects . if miracles , which were wrought in all ages , and in the sight of all mankind , with so much approbation , that they have evicted confession , even from the most incredulous , and reverence from the most stupid , millions and unfeigned miracles , were and are daily wrought in confirmation of the verity of the roman catholick religion . so as that there is not a country wherein the roman catholick religion is profess'd , which doth not produce testimonies so prudently and evidently credible of true super-natural miracles , that to deny them , were to destroy all humane faith. did not simon magus impiously boast , by the spirit of his private fancy , that he would do wonders , as st. peter did ? who provok'd by the said simon magus , did prove that he had the spirit of god , by raising a child from death , which the other , with all his black magick art , could not do ; yet boldly challenging st. peter , to fly from the capitol to mount aventin ; while he was doing so , by the prayer of st. peter , loe he came tumbling down , and brake his leg , whereof he died soon after . even so that false apostle calvin , for the credit of his new damn'd doctrine , he would fain make a shew to the people of doing a miracle , hir'd one that was sick , to counterfeit himself dead , who when calvin should speak certain words , was to arise , as it were , from the dead , but he not stirring , was found dead indeed . withall , mark how that the son of calvin being bitten by a mad dog , his father not being able to cure him , sent him to st. hubert in arden , where the body of that saint is kept with veneration , and frequent miracles wrought thereby , where he was perfectly made whole ; whereupon abjur'd his fathers sect , became a roman catholick , and lived and died so . yet protestants object , its strange themselves never see any miracle , being so desirous , and miracles so frequent as we pretend . herod was also very desirous to see a miracle , but his curiosity excluded him from that favour : men who believe nothing but what they see , deserve not to see miracles , because they are obstinate . yet there are few protestants , who do not see miracles ; what greater miracle , than that all catholicks turn not protestants ? if the continual victory over natural and vehement inclinations doth require a miracle of super-natural grace , we are as naturally and vehemently inclined to their religion , as we are to our own liberties and pleasures : what greater miracle , than that roman catholick sober and learned men , should be perswaded , that their senses are deceived in the sacrament of the altar , and that they should suffer death for the mystery of transubstantiation ? there must be effects of super-natural grace , and not of ignorance , or obstinacy , which cannot be laid to our charge , seeing we submit our judgments to every definition of the roman church , and our very adversaries know we are learned men. sanctity of life , is a super-natural sign and effect of grace , and of the true church . this sanctity is evident in the roman church . not to speak of antonies , hilarions , or stillitas , let 's draw nearer our times , and consider the lives of st. bernard , st. dominick , st. francis , st. vincent ferrer , st. francis of paula , st. charles barromeus , st. teresa , st. francis xaverius , st. anthony of padua , and many more , who were known roman catholicks , professing the same tenets , and obedience to the pope , which we now maintain against pretended reformation . and not to speak only of the dead , let any indifferent person consider , how in all vocations of both clergy and laity , we have many persons eminent in virtue , far above that degree of morality . let our english protestant be pleased to weigh with himself , whether young ladies , of as great quality , fortunes , and gifts of nature , as england doth afford , could forsake their native country , kindred , and friends , contemn all pleasures of the world and themselves , by embracing a religious , poor , and penitent life , in perpetual inclosure , submitting their wills to the obedience and humour of a woman : could this , i say , be performed by so many , so continually , and with so great alacrity and content of mind , without a miraculous and super-natural grace of the almighty ? in my judgment it is a greater miracle , that such persons should resolve by a voluntary banishment , to dye to their country , and friends , and to the whole world , by a religious profession , and to bury themselves alive in a cloyster ; than if they had restored life to others , and banish'd death from graves and monuments . 7. now after that our protestant gentleman hath considered our catholick monasteries , let him examine , whether in his own church there hath been , or now is , any thing resembling so much religion , and super-natural virtue , as that which amongst us is not admired ( though admirable ) because so ordinary . this kind of life is as far from protestants practice and doctrine , as it is from natural inclination . yet i have heard , that master laud of canterbury , was once inclined to erect some protestant nunneries in england . i believe it would occasion as great stirs as his reformation did in england , because nothing is more opposite to the tenets of the reformed gospel , and first reformers , than to make vows of poverty , chastity , and obedience . protestancy begun , and is founded upon the dissolving of monasteries and religious vows , and is not compatible with their observance , if things must be carried on by the same means that acquired them a being . 8. the conversion of nations to christianity , is not only a sign of the true church , but also the end of its institution . this is so proper to the roman catholick , even at this present , that none who heard the names of america , angola , china , monomotappa , india , or iaponia , can be ignorant of our pious endeavours , and miraculous success , in preaching the gospel to so remote nations , where nothing that is coveted in this world , could be aimed at , or expected by our apostolical preachers . i will not say any more concerning the signs of the true church , these being sufficient to convince any person that desires to be saved , that out of the roman church there is no salvation , seeing it alone hath supernatural and visible signs , whereby god doth declare sufficiently , that it is an infallible guide , to inform men of his mysteries , and direct them in the way he hath prescribed for his divine service , commanding all men to hear and obey it , as they would hear and obey god himself . now let us see what luther the apostate apostle of protestants says , velit nolit , in praise of the infallibility of the roman catholick , in his book against the anabaptists , who in hatred of the pope of rome , did reject infant baptism : nos , we confess , sub papatu plurimum esse boni christiani , imo omne bonum christianismum , atque illinc ad nos devenisse ; quippe fatemur in papatu veram scripturam sacram esse , verum baptismum , verum sacramentum altaris , veras claves ad remissionem peccatorum , verum praedicandi officium , verum catechismum ut sunt articuli fidei decem praecepta , &c. dico insuper sub papatu esse veram christianitatem imo verum nucleum christianitatis esse — o magna est veritas & praevalet . mark what calvin says , instit. c. 10. § . 17. that st. bernard was a godly and pious writer . adding , et certe papista fuit bernardus , & nemo est pius sine vera fide salutem & veritatem ab inimicis habemus . mark lastly what melancthon , one of the first followers of luther , said to his dying mother , whom he perverted from the old religion to his new one : mother , send for a priest , confess your sins before you die . illa securior haec plausibilior via ad salutem . she did so , and died in the communion of the old roman catholick faith , in which she was born and bred . this you will find in florimundus de ortu haeresis , lib. 1. cap. 9. what can be said more of the advantage of the roman catholick church , than what her mortal enemies proclaim to the world for to undeceive men , and guide them to the secure ark of sanctification and salvation ? now to deny this infallibility so evidently demonstrated , is the great crime protestant pretended reformers are charged with ; in this infallibility is founded all the power of christ's church , obliging to believe the inviolableness of her government , the unjustifiableness of any schism , the firm security that faith is certain , and whatever in the church is sacred . but protestants never clear themselves from schism , upon any other grounds , that those , which if admitted , would prove all malefactors in the world innocent , and make it lawful , nay an obligation in conscience , to dissolve the whole fabrick of the worlds government , whereas the very posture of a fallibility of faith , first lays , and in time hatches the cockatrice eggs of anarchy and atheism . what man ever arrived to that height of mistake , as to endeavour to manifest his innocency by the voluntary confession of a crime , which implies the objected sin of schism ? now protestants are accused of schism , they lay for the ground of their excuse , that they acknowledge not christs churches infallibility , which is charged on them , to be both schism and heresie , and as the very sink of infidelity . sure they clearing themselves by denying the infallibility of the church , does the self-same as if some male-contented subject , having first out-lawed himself , by denying the laws , and rejecting the government of the land , and afterwards this man becoming obnoxious to those laws , by robbing or murthering , should endeavour to plead not guilty , by alledging , that though indeed the subjects , who accept the laws , and allow the government of england , are liable to punishment , if they offend against them . yet , i ( quoth he ) who suppose this government tyrannical , and the laws unjust , especially having a perswasion , and thinking in my conscience they are so , cannot be obliged to obey them , and therefore i must not be accounted a factious man , nor liable to punishment if i break them . pray what will become of this malefactor ? sure protestants will clear him , in favorem schismatis : but i am perswaded , wiser judgments will think him more highly deserving the gallows , for refusing subjection to the install'd government ; then it is manifest , that protestants do more deeply merit excommunication , for denying and rejecting church-government and her infallibility . chap. v. a paraenetical admonition to the people of england . protestants regard the antient faith of christ , whose purity ministers seek to blacken , by insufferable injuries , lyes , invectives and calumnies of the deepest dye . they full well knowing , that its purity cannot be attacqu'd with solid evident reasons , nor arguments , they found out by experience , that their arguments to prove their new fangled false doctrine , makes but slight impression in the peoples minds : and they daily see , that when they but faithfully represent the sentiments and real doctrine of the catholick church , they can neither justifie their fatal separation , nor excuse the extravagancies and impudencies of their first reformers ; they finding it impossible by these means , to maintain the ground of their cursed schism , they have a recourse to a most unjust , pernicious and hellish artifice , viz. to impute to the roman catholick church , an infinite number of gross errors , representing them under the hideous idea , of a society professing most impious doctrine ; thus no wonder that peoples minds , under their conduct , should be alienated , as to feel horror and detestation of her doctrine , so as their breach has been all along grounded upon lyes , calumnies and false suppositions . not being able to alledge in the behalf of their schism , any thing that can bear weight , assuredly such disingenuous proceedings cannot but bring a deserv'd disrepute shame and confusion on the protestant decaying sect , even from the sober understanding men among them . and it is observable , that incredulity is an immortal disease , which hath reign'd from the beginning of the world , and which shall never end , but with the worlds dissolution . dreams , lyes , illusions and falshood are easily believ'd , because they insinuate themselves into the hearts of men by charms , but glorious truth , which can never bely her self , hath much ado to make her self entertain'd and understood , yet we must know that there are many things unknown to us , wherein god doth exercise our faith , but not satisfie our vain curiosity . it is said , that heretofore in smyrna , a city in greece , there was a false mirror kept in the temple , which did represent the most beautiful faces with notable deformity , and on the contrary , gave to ugly and mis-shapen a lustre , of borrow'd and wholly imaginary beauty : it is most notorious , that the protestant ministers , in the false glass of their preachings , and lying printed panphlets , represents the glorious church of christ the spouse of heaven ever holy , as a monster composed of idolatry and abomination , as the horrid beast , whore of babylon , &c. and on the contrary , a protestant sect , which begun by a revolt from all obedience to lawful superiors , and by an infinite number of exorbitances , sacriledge , and unparallel'd cruelties , is forsooth represented as celestial , holy and beautiful ; and it is to be wondered to see even dr. stillingfleet , that hircules and prime advocate for schism , and who undertakes like a goliah , to defie the whole hoast of israel , in the false glass of his roman idolatry , p. 8. velit nolit , represents the roman catholick church , as idolatrous and superstitious , and yet makes it out clearly , that she is the true church , to whose communion the purest of all christians are bound to joyn , and that those who in any time did not joyn with it , acted against their christianity , and must be counted as schismaticks . now , noble sirs , you are intreated seriously to reflect and bear in mind that heavenly virtue , of ready and true filial obedience to lawfully authorized superiors , as guides of your souls in this valley of misery , and sink of death : this virtue is of the first magnitude , and deserves all imaginable encomiums ; opposita juxta se posita magis clucescunt , said the most excellent philosopher : contraries are their best illustrations : now schism is disobedience , and a most horrid vice , considered in her own ugly shape , being carnality it self , so as there is not any crime so hainous as schism , not sacriledge , idolatry , paracide , nor worshipping the devil , it 's an abridgement of all the most damnable inexcusable , unexpiable vices imaginable , it being impossible to receive such an injury or provocation from church-governours , as may make a separation excusable ; for according to st. austin , it is impossible that there should be any just cause for any to separate from the catholick roman church . sirs , such expressions as these cannot but strongly incite any understanding unbyass'd man , whom a tender care of eternity invites to seek satisfaction in this point , and seriously to consider , that the decision of no one controversie is more neerly concerning salvation , than this , being the hinge on which the ocean of particular disputes and controversies do hang. this said , let us see what dr. stillingfleet asserts in his roman idolatry , p. 8. that a christian , by virtue of his being so , is bound to joyn in some church or congregations of christians , and that those who in any time did not joyn with it , acted against their christianity , by virtue of which , they were bound to do it ; he adds that a christian by being so , is bound to joyn in communion of some church , and to chuse the communion of the purest ; from this his doctrine , any understanding man must gather that he and his protestant-pretended church are guilty of schism , for separating themselves , and remaining from joyning with the communion of the roman catholick church , notwithstanding the said stillingfleet , strains all his wits to palliate schism , painting their idle reformation to advantage , and not at all in its true colours , proclaiming often roman catholicks idolators , superstitious , &c. which is the chief rope whereupon he dances the antick and triumphs ; o tempora , o mores ! himself and his proselites being in schism over head and ears . what then i pray , are protestants the better for all the sermons they hear , and sacraments they receive ? living in the cursed state of schism ? for sure before luther there was a glorious church ; by the confession even of adversaries , this must be the roman , whose communion was necessary to salvation . therefore the church of england , separating , and remaining obstinately from joining in communion with it , must be schismaticks , and something more to boot ; and it 's notoriously evident , that the roman church hath the strongest warrantable promises , prerogatives , and motives , even given to it by the sacred mouth of glorious jesus ; then sure she could not err , then sure she could not need any idle pretended reformation . so as that all stilling fleet 's blind preaching of reformation is vain , his faith is vain , his sacraments vain , all his super-structures of daily printing lying new books , and scurrilous pamphlets , but all vain , and by consequence himself no better than a sorry schismatick : so as any unbyass'd understanding man may plainly see , all those arrows which dr. still . shoots against roman catholicks fall directly on his own head ; muta fiant labia dolosa , quia narraverunt iniqui fabulationes , sed non ut lex tua . his objection is , that rome was an harlot , superstitious , the horned beast , &c. it 's true that st. ierome and other holy fathers avers the same with reason ; but it was so called then when rome was gentile , infected with errours , vain superstitions of all nations , blaspheming god , adoring stocks and stones , and shedding , in hatred of christian religion , the blood of saints . but after that rome gave her name to christ , she can no more be stiled the whore of babylon , but a glorious city , faithful city , replenished with all grace and righteousness , which by receiving and confessing the faith and religion of christ , purely wip'd and wash'd off all impurity , all blasphemies , and superstitious observances ; from that time it 's become the tabernacle of god in the sun , true pillar and ground of faith ; no blemish , spot , or wrinkle doth she carry . when , i pray , is any able to say he saw her brave sun go down , or her fair moon withdraw ? she always being a perpetual excellence of a spotless light and irradiancy . from this city of the sun decrees of pure faith are daily call'd for , a pure fountain from whence to the universal world streams of heavenly truths , doctrines , and sanctity daily flow . this is the most triumphant tribunal of christ , whence the real conviction and condemnation of heresies , sects , and errours do proceed ; the oracle of christians , by which , and in which alone , infallibly all arising doubts about true saving faith are resolved . it 's the sublime and invincible seat of glorious peter , wherein to this day doth reign , and invisibly as president resides christ , never forsaking the same . this is the holy land , consecrated by the sacred blood of the apostles , in which 72 popes are saints , so many our b. saviour's disciples were . o glorious triumphant hierarchy ! o queen ! o invincible and ever-blessed kingdom of christ ! o flourishing , potent , and brave resplendent city ! o army embattell'd in a heavenly martial order ! where christians must stand always upon their guard , with weapon in hand , fighting here , to be crowned in heaven ; labouring here , to rest there ; sowing of tears here , to reap joys there ; in a storm here , to be in a calm there ; and therefore our roman catholick church is called militant here , but triumphant there , both which are correlatives . i said it is a well-ordered army set in battel-array , in which the king and chief in command is christ , his under-vicegerent , vicar-general , universal pastor , is the pope ; his colonels , the archbishops , bishops , prelates , and pastors ; his captains and engineers are all under-priests of all estates ; his trumpetters are the evangelical preachers ; his souldiers , all stout christian catholicks : this heavenly army is furnished with all the sacraments ; matrimony peopleth the army with men , baptism presseth and enrolleth them , confirmation armeth and strengtheneth them , the most blessed eucharist provideth the camp with ammunition-bread and heavenly victuals . o brave church of christ , ever glorious ! founded on a rock , and this was christ , who said , matth. 7.25 , 26. the rain fell , the floods came , the wind blew , and rushed upon the house , and it fell not , for it was founded on a rock ; but the pretended reformation established by law on the 20 th . of may , 1549 ? and was it not quite abolished on the 26 th , of november , 1644 , by the like failing authority ? assuredly it could expect but the fate of the fool 's house , it fell , for being built upon the sandy foundations of humane invention , and black arts. this sure happened by god's sweetly-chastising mercy , that by weighing their fatal dissolution , and the causes of it , they may retrieve their wanderings , and at length recollect their scattered and distracted members into the ever firmly united body of the one catholick roman church . this made mr. hooker , that prudent protestant-writer , affirm , that the protestant church was not likely to continue more than fourscore years , lib. 5. num . 79. nor could he judge otherwise , seeing it bears evidently the principles of corruption and mutability in its very constitution , viz. the materia prima of a meer secular basis : ; the first governours of it being none of those to whom christ promised his continual assistance to the worlds end . forsake then , and leave ( sirs ) that fleeting and unbodied shadow of shism , return and unite your selves to the catholick church , be not wandring brethren , dry and sapless ; now seeing that as the elements never rest contentedly but in their centre , so you 'll find no rest but in the bosom of the true church , which is the proper place of every christian , to which i invite the brave nobles of england , to begin to open their eyes and consider that it 's very strange how that in a manner all the nobility of england fell from their old religion establish'd by unfeigned miracles , and readily embraced a pretended reformation . sure it was not for conscience sake , some fell for liberty , some for flattery , some for ambition , and some for sordid lucre of church-lands . i ask whether henry the eighth or the nobles that fell with him found any fault or exception against the sacraments , divine service , or the other holy rites of the church ? not at all , then , their woful fall must proceed from their perverse wills , which they made their law : hinc lacrymae . sure this dismal change in king and peers , was the sad in-let of all the wars , confusion and calamities in church and state that hapned ever since in this brave kingdome this general defection from god ( against conscience ) of the nobility , may plead in some measure a plausible excuse , their being excited and provok'd thereunto by the example of their passionate king who hath strong influence on his subjects , according to the poet claudian regis ad exemplum totus componitur orbis . mobile mutatur una cum principe vulgus . scilicet in vulgus manant exempla regentum : sure we may perceive a just judgment inflicted on the nobility of england after their revolt , pray what 's become of all that manly courage , prowess , gallantry and valour , that made them still renowned in all countreys of the whole world ? all now degenerated into a shameful effeminacy , debauch'd cowardice and inconstancy . sure a touch of blindness and madness possessed them and whetted their high spirits on to such impious actings as to yield to injustice , sacriledge , schism and heresie ; how came they ( i say ) to be so stupified as to forget the great zeal and courage of their christian ancestors ? who for some small temporal concern or priviledge have often bid defiance to their prince , yet in king henry the eighth's time the nobility prov'd cowards , their spirits low and base in the cause of god and his old religion , so as very few withstood the innovation and usurpation of henry the eighth's , hinc illae lachrimae , think you , could the nobility ( in whose hands and power it lay to impede the innovations and unparrellell'd sacriledge of their king ) expect to escape the vengeance of god , who is a jealous god revenging the crimes of parents upon their posterity even to the fourth generation , yet the floud-gate of of gods mercy is still open to all sinners who with a contrite heart shall lay hold on jesus christ by conversion from schism to his faith found only in the roman catholick church . fair warning take , o brave nobility , sound a retreat , fight not any longer against heaven , call to mind the dishonour you have done to glorious jesus , trampling on his precious blood by your sacrilegious contempt of his sacred religion and sacraments : know that non est concilium , nec sapientia contra deum , leave off to be embroil'd any longer in that most pernicious quarrel of henry the eighth's unjustly undertaken . — vna manus vobis vulnus opemque feret . sure your will gave you the deadly wound of schism and heresie , the same must sure heal you ; by perusing this small treatise with gods assistance it may convince your understanding , and reduce your perverse will to obedience . begin therefore to reclaim , its high time for you to return to god who bindeth nobles in fetters of iron , and who alone can en-noble the meanest , and laugh to scorn the proud that presume on nobility in contempt of the almighty , for he is noble that in vertue shines , ill life and manners are degenerate signs , earth's nobles in heaven's court unknown heaven not gentry but the just doth own , should you in power and strength excell all other men . — plenty of massie gold and silver , what then ? injoy'd you fortune's wheel to raise thee to the skie . well ordered servants that in duty would outvie all others , what then ? all 's but folly and distress , but god alone to serve is true glory to possess . the want of a serious consideration hereof brought england to the stage of confusion , disorder , schism , and sacriledge , pray did not your schism occasion a grievious civil war which continued for three years ? soon after a gloomy horrible comet appear'd in the air which did usher a most raging plague , soon after fire and dreadful flames from heaven , all but warnings and merciful invitations for to bring england to true obedience and re-union to the ancient , reveal'd and soul-saving faith of christ : yet all proved ineffective : what ? a fiery comet in the van ? what , a frightful plague in the main body ? what , devouring flames as horrid executioners of gods vengeance in the rear , and yet no moving at all towards the fear of god irritated , notwithstanding all such prodigious judgments and visitatious sent from a hand more then humane , all did but harden the people of londons hearts in schism and heresie : but now in a most happy hour . lo our great royal iames , now displays his white flag clemency and mercy to his subjects assuring the world ( out of his princely mature wisdome , and experience ) that liberty of conscience in england cannot but mainly conduce as an inlet for the reducing of all his loyal subjects from dire schism , and heresie , to the one true catholick apostolick and roman church of christ , ut fiat unum ovile , & unus pastor ovium . for his most sacred majesty by his well ordered zeal and dei-form intention labours to promote vigorously the common good , spiritual and temporal of his subjects as he , like a most good , just , clement , and puissant prince holds himself bound . o brave england do but seriously consider how the world cannot chose but discern you , ever since your revolt , overcast with blindness and disingenuity , your nobles and gentry , become altogether most inconstant , unsteady , wavering and still dissatisfied with any government , monarchical or anarchical ; even as when a bone is out of joynt , the patient can never be free from his pain till it be not only set , but set right again : so england , it is not only out of joynt , but even broken in pieces suffering inexpressible miseries , changes , and calamities both in church and state , yet even to this day it feels no ease at all , because none have had it in hand to cure its distempers , but such as instead of healing its wound , have inflam'd its maladies and woful distractions . o brave nobility of england joyn with your great prince : according to that axiom , per quascunque causas conponitur res , per easdem dissolvetur . henry the eighth began the dance in bringing in schism , the nobility followed him . now great king iames begins to chace away schism & introduce union , peace , & prosperity , follow him a brave pole star , take this fable to our purpose , upon a time the frogs petition'd iupiter to grant them a king , he condescended , and tumbled among them a log , after they had leap'd a while both on it and about it , and finding it to be insensible they once more petition'd for a king active and stirring ; whereupon he sent them a crane which fell immediately a pecking up . the moral hereof plainly shews , that nothing can give any lasting satisfaction to the desire of change to the people of england , for whether the governour be a frog or a crane , passive or active , clement , or cruel , gracious or grievous , they disrelish all , unwilling to obey any , such are their principles , so as that they leave no stone unmoved to unsettle or alter any government , chosing to be enslaved by a bad rather then endure constantly a good one , and all this because they are blind and mad , out of all order for want of faith . i could not forbear letting fall some tears beholding such a mockery of heaven and sacriligious villany performed on st. patriarks day last , in contempt of that apostle of ireland who by the sign of the cross wrought many miracles , whereof one is most notorious , viz. that he chased away from that kingdom all venomous creatures even to this very day . any considering man may plainly see how that schism revealed its own turpitud , and betray'd it self to the full , on the 17 of september last : it 's sure then the semblance painted with hypocrisie and forgery was pull'd away , then it 's vizard and adulterated colours were quite taken away , so as schism discovered is a face unmasked , then sure by schism ( the origine of our holy reformation ) the work was done to the full ; when all the grounds of christian religion then were quite pull'd down , root and branch ; pray what are all our protestant reformations , but the taking away the antient principles of faith without any positive institution , still proceeding by degrees from schism , to reformation , from this to infidelity and blasphemy , until of the whole fabrick of divine faith there is not left one stone upon another . the sign of the cross only as a distinctive character between christian and pagan left , was on st. patriarks day last , villified and exposed to the scorn and laughter of the giddy crowds of protestants at london , when bulls with crosses in their horns , bears and dogs with crosses in their foreheads were seen marching through the protestant streets of london , and none did appear with any touch of zeal or religion to reprove , check , or punish such a villanous devillism , o tempora , o mores ! what! to see the holy cross pull'd from churches , altars , from the crown of our sovereign , and even from baptism , then most prophanely translated to the heads of bears , bulls , and dogs ; sure such heathenish practices suits better with turks and moors : now then , what other can the permitters , promoters , applauders , and abettors , of such prophane ridiculing of the prime mystery of christianity expect , then a heavy judgment from heaven . is this the fruit of all the plausible sermons in protestant churches on every sunday ? is this the end of schism and its deformation , now it 's come to the height of shame ? o plentiful reformation , o zealous , o blessed , o sober , o godly , protestant thorough reformation : now the work is done , non plus ultra . who sees not how schism produced reformation , a disorder establish'd by humane law which bred this confusion ; thus protestant preachers teaching their proselites to hate popery they have put them upon the over-acting the work ; so , as to leave their religion a gasping : o london put on black and warning take . finis . to the most puissant , and most renown'd james the second king of england , scotland , france , and ireland , defender of the faith , long and prosperous reign is wished and prayed for . our bright orient star , king iames , long may shine . with true faith's rays , most powerful and divine ; whom the lustre of glorious greatness crown'd : may god his foes convert , or them confound . whom all admire , whom all almost adore , who to his subjects doth now all good restore . who for valour , wisdom , piety , and stature . is a wond'rous master-piece of nature . his deliverances from plots a miracle , his rare judgements , royal word an oracle . he out-brav'd all perils , his prowess met , a calm spirit amidst main storms he kept . in heaven's annals , his royal acts are enroll'd , his heroick feats are still in flanders told : in spain and france his pure conduct is renown'd , and now through the world doth his vertue sound . ne'r since the grecians call'd this world their own , or romans theirs , was greater valour known than his , if yet new worlds to conquer were , sure brave iames were the fitter conquerer . his valour , and conduct surpassing far , great champions , that were thunderbolts of vvar , bravest example of most heroick worth , that ever yet this later age brought forth ; vvhat tongue or pen is able to express , his matchless gifts , graces , and high minds hapiness . — therefore , can royal iames fear the vvhigs , those scare-crows then ? those bugbear vvretches , the meer shades of men ? — no , no , for he wants no arms to fit him for the field , his prayers are his sword , true old faith his shield . he in sweet jesus by true faith confides : mark ; christ all safety still for him provides . vvhigs when they list may for vvar and storms call , they with loud thunder shall in fury fall : in vain they plot , contrive , conspire , combine , they 'll fail by god , of their most damn'd design : for if by sedition they his power contemn , for him christ will dire vengeance fling on them . for god's transcendent providence still bear sway , which plots against kings doth with sorrow pay . lo ! vvhen the rare arabian bird doth burn , her beauties are not lost , but doth return , for when her body 's laid on sweet flames to death , out of her cindars a new bird takes breath . from blest queen mary's ashes , and royal blood , y'our sovereign leige a lovely flower did bud : for your deiform zeal for true old faith doth show , that her blood in your sacred veins do flow . lo god printed in your pure serene face , mild majesty , royal terrour , dreadful grace . live long , unpeer'd great prince , i prayers amain will daily offer for your most happy reign , and humbly beg of god's eternal bounty , that peace , union , one religion , plenty of all blessings , from his most potent hand be pour'd down upon this thy british land ; and on christ's ( in thy kingdoms ) faithful flock , built on st. peters rome , and st. peters rock . reign long great phaenix now 'mongst earthly kings , still prosper , great iames , for vvits pure managings . now you appear with mild , and sweet fervour , 'gainst forlorn sects , lies , schism , and all errour ; y'own st. ambrose , hierom , and st. austin , before mad luther , beza , and blind calvin . your majesty hates the new sin-sick tricks , of deluded deluding schismaticks ; who to new fangled faiths are so affected , that by them christs faith is quite rejected : whose curs'd spawn adventur'd t' expose to sale the best of kings , their faith , their souls , and all ; who , to rent his church daily do devise , and god's pure spouse , still harlot like despise , lying pamphlets , pulpits their black art do try , to stop true faith's most triumphant victory . in vain they plot , contrive , conspire , combine , they 'll fail by gods power of their damn'd design . — therefore let blind vvhigs stoop to serve at royal iames's feet , where valour , vvisdom , mercy and justice meet . sure non can frown at king iames his gentleness , but those that have an apparent guiltiness ; or such as at length to foul death must run , as monmouth aiming at the crown have done . god bless our king , defend him from his foes , ill fate befall those that will him oppose . vve bless his birth-day , and the ground he tread , — for his zeal for true faith through all vvorld is spread . christ bless king iames , queen mary , and then let all true , real , loyal subjects say amen . on their seat their seed may ever flourish , vvhich may in one truth three kingdoms nourish . god grant that never any other hand then royal stuarts , sway the scepter of this land. may it please your most sacred majesty , this is the daily humble prayer of j. e. one of your majesties most devoted subjects , who for shew of his true , real , loyal affection , plain lines and life offers to your high protection . perge age , prosper abi , rex vince jacobe secunde hostes armipotens religione , fide. a divine poem disswasive from shism . in this vast world none full content can find , for tho , one may be rich indeed yet his mind is empty still , for still he covets more , and is amidst his main heaps of riches , poor . lo , the spherick figure cannot suffice equally to fill what is triangle wise lay one upon another , and you 'll see , always some corner will unfurnish'd be when the almighty made man's soul , the same triangular by high providence did frame to represent his matchless self , and be the image of one god in persons three , ordaining man to love , fear , obey , and serve god alone , who always doth reward reserve . for , here beneath sure nothing can be found in this low orb that 's spherical and round can satisfie man's soul ; nor can man rest in creatures , who is ord'red to be blest by gods sweet fruition , who to him gave the sublime being , and essence , which he have good sir , slight not eternal goods and with much pain , for blind schism ev'rlasting torments gain . renounce thy right t'heaven and purchas hell , chosing in dungeon , fire , and chains to dwell don't forsake christ ways safe , true , and immense , pursuing lying , false doctrine to please thy sence which will debase thy nature , and the fruit will be to leave thee level with the bruit . what will enoble you and truly raise are visions of those beams which god displays from his reconciled sweet face shall make your soul of his bles'd nature to partake nought sir can here be offer'd to thy eye that can the glory of heaven outvie . nought here beneath of comfort doth so thrive as when god pure hearts doth with grace revive gods light must guide thee , how grace must be us'd mercies proves judgment when they are abus'd . schism breeds blindness and beats reason back forgets shames blush , and doth honour wrack . by faith we know immortal souls to be and that for souls there 's an eternity become what will of all the rest you have pray , sir , mind still thou hast a soul to save . a soul , your only soul which when you die is either sav'd or damn'd eternally . this only thought will dark schism controul , saying , avant damn'd sect i must save my soul , thus retreat , now convert thy self and next give joy to angels , church and friends perplex't . turn , sir , live by true faith e're you die making provision for eternity . is your precious soul's glorious future state not worth caring for ? wilt thou inhumane be unto thy self ? o wretched cruelty ! if you will curs'd heresie close pursue , turning your self from christ , i bid you adieu : by cautions warnings , and sad remors ▪ you 'll feel the hazard of that thy woful course . how in the paths of sad schism you do stray and to satanick wiles become a prey — in christ's most divine face with scorn you spit , finding but pains of that your darkn'd wit. what 's that most perverse sect to which you 'r gon but from christs church a revolted squadron ? turn then to your mother who as a guide sure means to heaven will for you provide . what angel from god came to you to tell that errours are in christ pure faith and gospel ? sanctity of life , none could e're have seen in any who a protestant have been . you 'll say your sect hath scripture on her side . such vain conceit none can but fools abide . know you not ! that hereticks and devils us'd scripture , to cloke their damn'd black evils ; to fly from christ , and his pure faith , what worse ? to strengthen schism deserves a double curse remember , sir , that your poor soul has cost a price too great by heresie to be lost . then , sir , with-draw your self from apostar's place and with speed listen to the call of grace — lo , true faiths day-spring shining from on high will relieve you that in deaths shade do lie . and will direct thy wandring thoughts aright out of dark schism to saith's pure light . look , sir , to 't awake shake off those cruel bands of dismal heresie , and proud commands of the devils powers , return and cry then like the dove to christs blessed arms fly , where mercy 's ready still to comfort all that yields obedience to god's gracious call , pray , sir , don't resist , but without delay close in with glorious jesus's voice this day . know , sir , that it's truth which alway bare date that true repentance never comes too late be wise , beware , for he that will not take example now , sure must example make relent , reclaim , don't in schism pleasure take , least you fall in flames of that fiery lake . the scorching pile whereof is kindled by the breath of an incens'd great majesty . o woful state ! those torments who can tell which with consuming fire for ever dwell . still fill'd with lamentations , mournings , woes with floods of wrath that from dire vengeance flows . lord , who 'l be so mad as for empty toys lose for ever , pure substantial joys : sure it 's but stark madness now to reject those counsels which to faith doth thee direct . how oft you have extinguish'd that clear light offer'd by friends to guide thy soul aright sure there 's a war that gives your mind no rest your judgment tells thee old faith's waies are best . gold , jewels , honour , high promotion , wealth revenues , soveraignity , pleasures , and health . what are all these vain transient things without true faith , souls to damnation brings . your conscience checks you that you don't obey shewing you the danger of your blind delay . what you should do you know not , this you find that strong convictions still assaults thy mind . till conscience with gods help will interpose and by strong grace your dark schism overthrows . o good , sir , don't for dark schism lose that place where saints and angels still beholds the face of god's eternal glory and do sing joyful hailelujah's to their king of kings . come , sir , and tread those paths that will thee bring unto a glorious everlasting spring , and on a most rich throne thou shalt sit down , and there for ever wear a triumphant crown thy soul 's immortal , sir , look what can agree to it's nature , sure that must satiate thee , nothing but the blest fountain god that will suit with thy soul , and thy poor spirit fill . all worldly pleasures thou injoyest to day to morrow will take wings and fly away . though true faiths happy ways may seem to be a thorny , rough , unpleasant path to thee : yet try it , sir , for what at first seems hard , will prove to thee sure welcome afterward . for when thy heart is enlarg'd with love unto those glorious things that are above then wilt thou run these ways with great delight and wild schism ways with all thy soul will slight . turn then , and believe , thy conquest shall be sure if thou in christ's faith till the end endure , ask those who follow th' old faith they 'll say they feed on hidden manna in their way . by acts of faith and love they now possess — they feel strong sweetness which they can't express oft men of note thro' pride are prompt to stray thinking themselves too great for virtues way no truth , no faith in that sect you profess which can your drooping soul with grace refresh . no fast , nor maceration of the flesh of pomp , lust , and vain pleasure , full excess . no priest , no mass , no moving sacred thing that sighs from hearts , or tears from eies may wring . oh , sir , return to christ in whom from pain unalter d joys , unmix'd delights you 'l gain to him the only object of thy love let thy poor panting heart and will , now move for to true faith 's old ways thou ought`st to groan and so work for eternal bliss alone . may christ dissolve your schism and pull down all those that do oppose christs tripple crown in holy wars the pope still triumphs alone and when schism's disarm'd , he then extends his throne christ's gospel steers to union and true love , and by conviction on hearts doth move . i. e. finis . an answer to some queries concerning schism, toleration, &c. in a letter to a friend ... gandy, henry, 1649-1734. 1700 approx. 169 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 30 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a42125 wing g197 estc r8150 13104344 ocm 13104344 97457 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a42125) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 97457) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 418:3) an answer to some queries concerning schism, toleration, &c. in a letter to a friend ... gandy, henry, 1649-1734. [3], 57 p. [s.n.], london : 1700. the thirteen lines following the title consist of quotations from epistle to the brethren / thomas long, and mischief of separation / edward stillingfleet. written by h. gandy. cf. bm. errata: p. 57. reproduction of original in bodleian library. marginal notes. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng schism -early works to 1800. 2007-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-01 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-04 john latta sampled and proofread 2007-04 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer to some queries , concerning schism , toleration , &c. in a letter to a friend . it was not long since , that the sins of rebellion and sacrilege were so successful , that they did not only cast off their old names , but commenc'd vertues ; and it was dangerous to discourse , whether there were such sins or no : prosperous wickedness has never wanted its apologists , who know how to call evil good , and good evil. the case is almost the same , concerning the sin of schism and separation . long 's epist . to the brethren , before the character of a separatist . an vniversal toleration is that trojan horse , which brings in our enemies without being seen , and which after a long seige , they hope to bring in at last , under the pretence of setting our gates wide enough open to let in all our friends . still . misch . of separation . p. 58. i beseech you , brethren , mark them who cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine , which ye have learned , and avoid them . rom. 16. 17. london , printed in the year mdcc . an answer to some queries , concerning schism , toleration , &c. in a letter to a friend . sir , i receiv'd your letter with some queries , but i cannot imagine what made you pitch upon me ( when you are acquainted with so many learned men ) to answer ' em . but to let you see how willing i am to give you the best satisfaction that i can , i have here sent you the opinions of some of our most celebrated episcopal divines , that out of them you may frame answers to all your queries ; and if you are not satisfied with what i have collected out of 'em , you may have recourse to their books your self . if you say that the authors i have quoted are but private men . and their writings of no authority ; i must answer , that most of their books have past an imprimatur , or , which by some is look'd upon as tantamont , the approbation of the london divines . if you say further that their practices have in some cases contradicted their principles , i must say , that that is nothing to me , let them look to that . if their principles be sound and orthodox that 's all that i desire , let them answer for their practices . as for the preliminary questions , i have likewise taken the answers to them out of the same writers , as you 'll find upon the perusal . the first question that you propose is this , what is meant by the church ? but before a distinct answer can be given , you must know that the word church has various significations ; sometimes 't is taken for the place where people assemble , and sometimes for the people assembled ; sometimes for the whole church including the church triumphant which is in heaven , as well as the church militant , or the visible church here on earth ; sometimes for the catholick church representative , or a general council ; sometimes for the catholick church diffusive or the whole body of christians ; sometimes for the church vniversal ; sometimes for a particular church , &c. q. what is meant by the church in general or the catholick church ? a. the church [ ecclesia ] among christians in the largest use of the word , is the whole multitude of believers joyn'd together in one body , or society under one head , jesus christ . or , the catholick church is the whole church of christ spread abroad thro' the whole world. or , the vniversal church is the company of christians knit together , by the profession of the same faith , and the communion of the same sacraments , under the government of lawful pastors . by catholick church , is meant the whole number of christians in all ages and places , admitted into the church by baptism , and gather'd into particular churches under their respective pastors , and bishops , united to one another , and to christ their head , by the profession of one faith or religion . q. what is meant by a particular church ? a. by a particular church is meant a number of men professing christianity , form'd into a society under lawful governours , and govern'd by such laws , and rules , as are not different from but agreable to the laws of the catholick church . q. what is meant by a national church ? a. the whole body of christians in a nation consisting of the pastors , and people , agreeing in that faith , government , and worship , which are establisht by the law of the realm . q. what is meant by a representative national church ? a. the representative church of a nation , is the bishops and presbyters of the church meeting together , according to the laws of the realm , to consult and advise about matters of religion . q. what is meant by the church of england ? a. the church of england is a society of people , which in this nation are united under the same profession of faith , the same laws of government , and rules of divine worship . or , by the church of england , i understand that body of men , who , as to church affairs , are united together , under the same principal church officers , the bishops , priests and deacons ; and communicate with them , and with one another , in all religious offices , according to the liturgy , and orders of our church , profess the christian faith according to the ancient creeds , and the 39 articles , and are govern'd according to the canons and laws of this church . or , the church of england is a community consisting of profess'd christians , united in the same government , doctrin , and worship according to the 39 articles and homilies ; her liturgy , canons and laws , and divided into parochial assemblies , for the more convenient worshipping of god. q. what is meant by a diocesan church ? a. the notion of a church ( by the ancient canons ) was the same with that of a diocess , or such a number of christians as were under the inspection of a bishop . or , a church is the body of christians contain'd in a city , and the territory of it , for the government of such a one the respective authority of the apostles , convey'd by the overt act of their ordination , was visibly vested in a bishop ; in a number of presbyters , for his advice and assistance : and in deacons attending upon them , and upon the executing their orders . q. what is meant by a parochial church ? a. a parochial church is a company of christians united under the care of a pastor , in subordination to the bishop of the diocess . q. wherein consists the unity of the church ? a. ecclesiastical unity consists in preserving all those relations , wherein each member of the whole church of christ is concern'd one towards another ; and this unity is either of subordination or equality . q. wherein consists the vnity of subordination ? a. the unity of those members that are subordinate one to the other consists , in the constant due subjection and obedience of all inferiors to their lawful superiors ; and in due exercise of authority in the superiors towards all committed to their charge . heb. 13. 17. 1 pet. 5. 2. q. wherein consists the vnity of equality , or fellow members ? a. unity of fellow brethren consists in the preformance of all mutual duties of justice and charity towards one another . q. what is meant by communion ? a. communion superadds nothing to unity but the relation of external association , whether by assembling for the worship of god in the same place , where the matter is capable of it , or whether by letters communicatory by which we maintain external communion with those who are far distant from us . or , communion with a church is joyning with a church as a member of that church . q. what destroys the unity of the church ? a. schism . q. what is schism ? a. schism is a division in or from a church . or , schism is a voluntary dividing or a separating , or receding of any member from the unity of the body , i. e. the church of christ . or , schism is a causeless separation from a true church . q. what is meant by schism from the church of england ? a. schism from the church of england is a sinful dividing from , or dissolving our union and communion with her , in her governours , members , worship or assemblies . this is the least we can mean by schism from the church of england , and is called separation negative ; which is made positive and more formally such , when those that have separated , set up their altars against hers , and erect other congregations in opposition to hers. q. what is meant by negative separation or schism ? a. negative schism is when men do peaceably and quietly withdraw their communion from the church , in part or in whole , to enjoy their consciences in a private way . q. what is meant by positive separation ? a. positive separation is when persons , thus withdrawn , do gather into a distinct and opposite body , setting up a church against a church , to worship god in a separated way themselves ; which st. austin calls setting up altar against altar . q. what is a schismatick ? a. a schismatick is he that divides himself from the church of god , he that goes out , or withdraws , or recedes of his own accord . q. what is an excommunicate person ? a. an ▪ excommunicate person is one that is cut off or separated , and cast out of the church by the governours of the church . from the definitions , i think these conclusions or propositions will naturally follow . viz. 1. that the christian church is a society . 2. that the church is but one body , ' tho it consists of many particular churches and diocesses as members of it . 3. that the church is govern'd by one supreme head. 4. that the supreme head of the church is christ . 5. that under this supreme head there have been always subordinate governors . 6. that those subordinate governors were first the apostles , constituted immediately by christ himself , over the whole church , and after them the bishops , as successors to them , in particular churches or diocesses . 7. that all bishops in their several districts or diocesses have full power , as to spirituals , over the whole flock . 8. that all the members of the church , within such districts , owe subjection to their lawful bishops , as to those commission'd by christ . 9. that as christ did ordain the apostles , and the apostles bishops , for the government of the church ; so the bishops have ever since ordain'd priests , and deacons , to take care of , and instruct the church in subordination to them . 10. that all christians are oblig'd to become members of some particular church , where the sacraments are administred , and communion enjoy'd under the authority of some canonical bishop , or in communion with some priest , owning and submitting to some bishop of the catholick church . 11. that all those , who break the vnity of the church by actual separation from the communion of their lawful bishop , and fellow christians , are schismaticks . 12. that all those , that are united to , and in communion with canonical bishops , and adhere to the doctrin and worship establisht in the church of england , as contain'd in the 39 articles , homilies , liturgy , canons and laws , are the true church of england , and their assemblies are true churches . 13. that all those who separate themselves , as schismaticks , and all those that are separated , as excommunicate persons , by the governors of the church , are out of the communion of the church . q. is all separation schismatical ? a. tho' schism be always a sin , yet there may be such circumstances which may make a separation not to be a schism . that you may know when separation is schismatical and when not , you must understand that there are three great bonds of communion , viz. faith , worship and government ; and whosoever shall separate from any church , whereof he is a member in any of these , he or they so doing cannot be acquitted from the guilt of schism , unless the corruption in some one , or more of these be so great as to render the communion sinful to him who knows it . q. what is meant by the first bond , faith ? a. if a church hold the catholick faith , ( tho' her members may differ in some controverted points ) pure and undefil'd , and impose no new articles of faith , as terms of her communion , 't is schism to break communion with that church ; but if she does impose new articles of faith , a separation from such a church is not only justifiable , but a duty . q. what is meant by the second bond , worship ? a. if a church have a pure worship , as to its substance , tho' cloath'd with some accidental modes , rites and ceremonies , to separate from such a church is downright schism , and the reason is , because all ceremonies and modes of worship , being in their own nature indifferent , cannot by being impos'd become sinful , and if not sinful , can never justify a separation . but if on the other side , the worship be polluted by idolatry , or profane and immoral mixtures , or any other way be made such , as that the members of the church cannot communicate without sin ; separation from such a church is not only warrantable , but absolutely necessary , and the schism must lie at the door of the imposers . q. what is meant by the third bond , government ? a. if the church of which we are members , be governed by lawful and canonical bishops , and they act according to the rules of the catholick church , then to separate from them is a damnable sin , and a pernicious schism ; 't is a denying of christ himself , who appointed them to rule the church in his stead : but if they are , either not lawful bishops , but intruders , or not orthodox but heritical , then they that separate are not only not schismaticks , but the true church , and they that cause the separation the schismaticks . to confirm what is said , i have subjoyned some few testimonies , by which it will plainly appear . 1st , that , tho' seperation he sometimes a duty , yet if the faith be sound , and the worship pure and uncorrupt , separation is sinful . 2ly , that separation from the communion of lawful and canonical bishops , is schismatical . 1st . that ( tho' separation be sometimes a duty , yet ) if the faith be sound , and the worship pure and uncorrupt , separation is sinful . violation of the unity of the church , where there is no sufficient reason to justifie it , is a sin as much as murder is , and is as plainly forbidden . my judgment being , that a causeless breaking the peace of the church we live in , is really as great and as dangerous a sin as murder ; and in some cases aggravated beyond it . to separate , where no sinful terms of communion are impos'd , is a causeless separation . separation is unwarrantable , if communion with the church may be without sin. renouncing communion , or denying to communicate with any church , upon any dislike , or for any cause , except sin , is properly separation and schism : it is not actually not communicating with a true chruch , but renouncing communion , that we think makes the schismatick . schism is directly a breach of unity ; as that is a breach of charity . refusing to communicate with a true church , when i have opportunity , especially my own church , is a plain breach of both , whatever my reason be , short of sin. there may be an actual criminous separation of churches , which formerly did joyn in one and the same communion ; and yet the separaters be innocent , and the persons from whom the separation is made be nocent and guilty of schism ; because they gave just cause of separation from them : it is not the separation but the cause that makes the schism . wherever — there is no necessity of separating , there the church has a right to communion , which to withold from her is schism , or else there is no such thing as schism in the world. a part of the catholick church may have so many errors and corruptions mix'd with it , as may make it necessary to salvation to leave it . there are three cases wherein the scripture allows of separation . 1st , in case of idolatrous worship . 2ly . in case of false doctrine impos'd instead of true . 3ly . in case men make things indifferent necessary to salvation , and divide the church upon that account . i do not charge those with separation , who under idolatrous or arian princes , did keep up the exercise of true religion against the will of the magistrate . there are many false teachers , that transform themselves into angels of light — but if they teach any thing for doctrine contrary to the word of god , any doctrine that tends to impiety , disobedience or divisions , it is our duty to reject and withhold communion from them . it is beyond question that there may be such corruptions in doctrines , and such idolatrous practices requir'd in worship , as may justifie a separation . the divines of the church of england , first prov'd that the communion of the romish church , was not pure and apostolical , and thence justifi'd the separation of the church of england from it , as necessary , &c. and on the contrary , they have prov'd that the communion of the church of england is pure and apostolical , and thence condemn the separation of the dissenters from it , as needless . god only bids me obey the church in such cases as are not defin'd by the law of god ; but doth not give the church leave to command any thing contrary to god's law , nor oblige me to attend to it , or obey it , if it should so command . we do still hold and teach , that the condition of our communion [ with the church of rome ] was made sinful , by professing false doctrine , believing lyes , and joyning in idolatrous worship ; and so it was unlawful and intolerable ; and they who practise such things themselves , and would impose them on others , are actually in separation from the true church . schism indeed we do say is a damning sin , but there may be divisions , where there is not always the guilt and formality of schism , &c. the principal acts of christian communion , consist in christian worship ; and , if any church have so corrupted divine worship , that a good christian must not joyn in it , we must of necessity abstain from their communion . no church can oblige a man to believe what is false , or do what is vnlawful ; and rather than do either he must forsake the communion of that church . if you ask , by what authority we separate ? [ from the r. c. ] i answer by the same authority , which makes it unlawful for us to profess what we do not believe , and to practise what we believe god has forbidden . neither abroad nor at home can we purchase unity of communion at so dear a rate , as to break god's commandments for it . we do unanimously acknowledge , that if this church makes the profession of false doctrine , or the breaking of god's commandments a condition of her communion , they that upon this account separate from her communion , are before god clear of the guilt of schism , in so doing . when it is a sin to communicate , it is not a sin to separate . separation from a true church is sometimes lawful , if one cannot remain in its communion without communicating in her sins . suppose a particular church , tho' lawfully constituted and establisht under lawful governours , should make the terms of her communion such as her neighbour churches , could not without sin and danger , hold communion with her ; would separation in this case be adjudg'd a schism ? or would it not rather be lookt upon as their duty and interest to withdraw from her ? if schism be consider'd as a separation from the communion of some particular church , then 't is imply'd , that possibly there may be such cause given as may justifie the separation ; and if so , then the guilt of schism will lie at the door of the church which gives such cause , and not at his or theirs who separate there from — no cause can justifie a separation save only this , when a church makes the terms of her communion such as cannot be comply'd withal without sin. and in this case me thinks it is very plain , that it cannot be sin to separate , when it is sin to communicate , for no laws of men can abrogate or dissolve the obligation of the express laws of god. when we cannot obey our spiritual rulers , without disobeying the express laws of christ , the reason of our communion with such a church ceaseth , because it does not answer , ( nay contradicts ) the end of christian society , which is to have fellowship with the father and his son jesus christ . 1 jo. 1. 3. if any patriarch , prelate , church or churches shall enjoyn sinfull duties to their subjects — it is very lawful for their subjects to disobey them , and for strangers to separate from them . as in the case of usurpation , the owning of the lawful king is a voluntary act , but if an usurper threatens to banish him , if de does not abjure him ; upon whom must the blame be laid , upon the mans voluntary act , or the usurpers voluntary imposing such a penalty on those who do nothing but what is just ? — the making such terms of communion is a voluntary act too , and being a thing vnreasonable and vnjust , it leaves the blame on the imposers . i held it better to seem undevout , and to hear no mens prayers , than to be forc'd , or seem to comply with those petitions , to which the heart cannot consent , nor the tongue say amen , without contradicting a mans own understanding , or belying his own soul. i had rather be condemn'd to the wo of vae soli , then to that of vae vobis hypocritis , by seeming to pray what i do not approve . if any bp. metropolitan or patriarch , with open face asserts manifest heresy , or false doctrin , which hath been so declar'd by approv'd councils , the disowning all communion with him , and subjection to him , even before a council , is commended by some canons , as a practice which deserves honour . and it must be so , where subjection must include embracing corruptions . secondly , that separation from the communion of lawful and canonical bishops is schismatical . it is the law of the gospel and the constant profession of the christian church , that all persons , as well clergy as lay-men , must live in obedience and communion with their own bishops , as long as they profess the catholick faith , and uphold such a publick worship , wherein it is lawful to joyn , and in the right performance whereof , we may obtain salvation . the crime of schism does manifestly lie upon those who refuse obedience , to their lawful bishops in all just commands . not only the greek , abyssine , russian , churches , but the protestant churches , do all with one consent , condemn them for schismaticks , which separate from the lawful pastors of any true church ( — ) and set up churches against churches , and communion against communion , &c. it is undoubted , that it has been the constant doctrin of the greek , eastern , northern and southern churches , as well as roman in all ages , that christians ought to be in subjection to their respective bishops ; and he was held cut off from the catholick church , that did separate from his lawful bishop , or was excommunicated by him ; and no other church could receive him , till repentance and reconciliation to his own bishop , and 't is the same at this very day . i reckon my self bound to obey the commands of my lawful governors , both in church and state , not only for peace and order sake , but for the sake of god , who hath commanded me so to do , and am willing to forego my own rights often , and deny my own profit , rather than disobey , or oppose a command of my lawful governours , where i can obey without sin — god only bids me obey the church , in such cases as are not defin'd by the law of god ; but doth not give the church leave to command any thing contrary to god's law , nor oblige me to attend to it , or obey it , if it should so command . schism implies the casting off a lawful jurisdiction to which we were oblig'd to yield subjection and obedience . government and discipline is necessary to preserve any society , and therefore obedience to ecclesiastical governors is a necessary term of church communion ; and let a man be never so sound and orthodox in faith and worship , if he be of a restless and turbulent spirit and disobedient to his governors , and their orders and constitutions , he deserves to be flung out of the church communion , if he do's not separate himself , and will be damn'd for't too without repentance . communion with the bishop is essential to the notion and unity of an episcopal church . those only communicate with their bishop , who submit to his pastoral authority , and partake with him in all religious offices , and those who do not , according to the notion of the catholick church , are schismaticks , and therefore not of the same church with him . when men consent to be christ's disciples , they consent to submit to that authority christ has instituted in his church . it has been the constant practice of the apostles , and all succeeding ages , to set bishops and pastors over particular churches and to confine their care and inspection to them . episcopacy has been the establisht government of the church of england , ever since the reformation ; and for any christians to separate from their bishops , was always accounted schism in the christian church , unless there were some very necessary reaons to justifie such a separation . there is no other way of submitting our selves to the authority of christ , but by a regular subjection to the discipline and government of the church . i know no way of judging whether any man be in communion with christ , but by his communion with the church . there is no visible communion with god and christ , but by a visible communion with the church . subjection to christ requires subjection to that authority which christ has set in his church , as well as obedience to his other laws . 't is plain we disown christs authority when we reject those who act by his authority . an obstinate refusal to obey the imposition of lawful bishops and pastors makes men schismaticks . whosoever is a member of any particular church , and refuses all due obedience to the pastors and governors thereof , doth thereby contract the guilt of schism . — as it is heresy , to depart from the faith which they [ the apostles ] preached ; so is it schism to depart from the authority which they left in the church till the worlds end . whoever by virtue of any authority under heaven , shall usurp ecclesiastical power , shall usurp the succession of the apostles , and take it from them that rightfully stand possest of it , upon pretence of governing the church by such laws , as he is really perswaded , but falsely , to be commanded the church by our lord and his apostles , this whosoever shall do , or be accessary to , is guilty of schism . suppose a prosperous usurper in this kingdom had gain'd a considerable interest in it , and challeng'd a title to the whole , and therefore requir'd of all the kings subjects within his power , to own him to be rightful king : upon this many of them are forc'd to withdraw , because they will not own his title : is this an act of rebellion and not rather of true . loyalty ? schism in the church is like rebellion in the state. there are some things immediately necessary to the salvation of particular christians , whether concerning faith or good manners ; and there are other things necessary to the publick order and peace of the church , that by it christians may be edify'd in all matters of the first kind . the denying any point of the first kind , may , for distinction sake , be call'd heresie , when a man is resolute and obstinate in it : but in the other kind , it is not false opinion that makes a man a schismatick , till he agree to destroy the unity of the church for it . it can scarce fall out indeed , that any man proceed to destroy the unity of the church without some false opinion in christianity : yet it is not the opinion , but the destroying of a true , or erecting of a false power in the church that makes schism . whatever discouragments the clergy have found , they still preach up , and perswade loyalty to the king ; and by the doctrine of passive obedience to temporal authority , keep people from rebellion , notwithstanding they have been so often jeer'd and abus'd with it : but yet out of modesty seldom insist on the obedience that is due to the church and ecclesiastical authority , tho' there is as much obedience due to her , as even to the church of rome from her members . as the faith which we have in the principles of christianity , is the foundation of all christian graces in the soul , and the inner dispensation of eternal life ; so is episcopacy the foundation of all visible union and government in the ecclesiastical body , insomuch that were there no one bishop left in the world , the integrity at least , if not the very essence of the church would be destroy'd . the summ of what has been cited upon this query amounts to this , viz. 1st , that if any church makes the terms of her communion sinful , by framing new articles of faith , or by imposing false doctrines for true ; or by corrupting divine worship by wicked , idolatrous or blasphemous prayers , then she is schismatical , and those that separate from her truly catholick : but if she imposes no false doctrines , nor no new articles of faith , and enjoyns nothing in the service of god , but what is innocent , decent , and tending to edification , then those that separate from her are a schismatical , and she a catholick church . 2ly , if any church disobey the lawful commands of their spiritual governors , or throw off their rightful and canonical bishops , and communicate with the vsurpers and intruders into their sees , they are schismaticks . 3ly , if any wholly reject episcopacy , they destroy the very foundation of christian vnity . q. suppose there be more bishops than one in a diocess , with which of them must the people communicate ? a. almost all heresies and schisms , that have distracted the church , have been no other than so many defections of the discontented part of the clergy , and the more pragmatical part of the layety from their rightful bishop . non aliunde haereses obortae sunt , aut nata sunt schismata quam inde quod sacerdoti non obtemperatur ; schisms and heresies spring from no other cause than disobedience to the bishop : inde haereses obortae sunt , dum episcopus qui unus est , contemnitur : all the disturbance of the church is purely for want of observing that precept of the apostle ; obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls , as they that must give account : i. e. obey those that are rightfully over you , and submit to them , not choosing your selves new teachers , and running after your own fancy : which ignatius seems to paraphrase , as he is cited by antiochus . let the people assemble where the bishop is present ; the sheep ought not to go wandring whither they please , but as the shepherd leads them . the people ought to follow the directions of their bishop , and conclude what he orders to be most pleasing to god. no city , how great soever , had more than one bishop : this is so well known that it would be great impertinence to go about to prove it by instances — and besides , the bishops of most cities if not all , had a considerable territory belonging to their jurisdiction , which was commonly the country lying round about their city . in great cities , there was one chief ecclesiastical governor called bishop , to which all both priests and people were subject and 't was schism and no communion , to do any thing without his allowance and direction . it was an inviolable rule among them , [ the africans ] that there was to be but one bishop in a city , tho' the city were never so large , or the christians never so many . one of the greatest and most pernicious schisms that ever happen'd , might have been prevented , if they had yielded to more bishops than one in a city ; and that was the schism of the donatists — the novatian schism began at rome upon the like occasion . to set up one bishop against another is to set up altar against altar , as that phrase is commonly us'd in st. cyprian and st. austin . our author [ mr. hales ] proves the donatists in two lines to be compleat schismaticks . 1st , for choosing a bishop in opposition to a former . 2ly , for erecting new places for the dividing party to meet in publickly . he [ mr. hales ] says truly that all meetings upon unnecessary occasions of separation are to be stil'd conventicles , so that in this sense a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismaticks , and he had before determin'd them to be schismaticks that do choose a bishop in opposition to the former , and that do erect a new church and oratory for the dividing party to meet in publickly . the laws and customs of all churches do condemn it for schismatical , for a man to come into another ministers charge , &c. the summ of what is cited on this query is this , that there ought to be but one bishop in a diocess or city , that they that set up a bishop in opposition to the rightful bishop , and make separate meetings , setting up altar against altar are schismaticks ; and therefore those that would avoid the guilt of schism must constantly communicate , with the first and rightful bishop , but never with the intruder , or his adherents . q. are the people that communicate with schismatical bishops and presbyters guilty of schism ? a. a schismatick is an impious son , which , having contemn'd the bishops and forsaken the priests of god , dares constitute another altar . the schismaticks are they , that having left their bishop , set up for themselves abroad another false bishop , and all their adherents are involv'd in the same guilt , who joyn with the schismaticks against their bishops . — an essential part of our communion with our bishop is to live in communion only of those presbyters , who live in communion of their bishop , that is , who officiate by his authority , and are subject to his directions and orders . this was a standing rule in ignatius his time , as is evident from his epistles , that presbyters must do nothing in the church but by the bishop's consent or order , and those who do , are schismaticks , and those people who adhere to them in it , partake in the guilt of their schism , &c. 't is notorious in all the histories and canons of the church , that never any more than one bishop at a time was allowed in any of those great cities [ jerusalem , alexandria , &c. ] ( — ) and if a schismatick did sometimes creep in , as the novatians and donatists did in troublesome times , they were always condemn'd by the church , which did constantly maintain there ought to be but one bishop in a city or diocess , and all priests and lay persons ought to be govern'd by him . to assemble and celebrate the eucharist , besides the bishop's appointment , was then [ in st. ignatius his time ] the due mark of a schismatick . if the church unites upon schismatical principles , whatever the bishop does in pursuance of such principles is the act of the church ; and if the bishops be schismaticks , the church is so too . the church is by st. cyprian defin'd to be a people united to their own bishop , and a flock adhering to their own pastor , whence you may know , the bishop always to be in the church , and the church to go along with the bishop ; if therefore the bishop be a schismatick , so must all the flock that communicate with him . if any presbyter , contemning his own bishop , shall make a separate congregation , and erect another altar , his own bishop not being condemn'd of any irreligion or injustice , let him be depos'd , as one that is ambitious , and a tyrannical person , and in like manner , all that adhere to him ; and let the lay people be excommunicated , after the bishops third admonition . he who submits to , or complies with the manager of a schism , in his prosecution thereof , doth involve himself in the same crime . q. if a bishop , or other clergy man , be guilty of any offence , by whom is he to be try'd and punish'd ? a. touching the depriving or degrading of bishops , presbyters and deacons , the ancient canon requires the concurrence and consent of 3 bishops for the censuring and depriving of a deacon ; of 6 for the depriving of a presbyter ; and of 12 for the censuring , judging and deposing of a bishop . if a bishop be convicted of heresy or schism , or some great wickedness and injustice , his colleagues ( that is ) bishops may depose him , and forbid his people to communicate with him , and ordain another in his stead . for one particular primate or metropolitan to censure any bishop by himself , or to be uncapable of censure in his own provincial synods , hath no precedent in the primest and purest antiquity . the canon apostolical ( 33 ) directing , that every bishop of every nation give deference to him , that is chief among them , and to esteem him as their head , and to do nothing extraordinary without his cognisance , but every one only to do those things which are expedient to his own diocess , and to the country under him . and so neither must the capital bishop do any thing without the consent of them all , for thus there will be an vnanimity , and god will be glorify'd thro' the lord in the holy spirit . bishops had over their presbyters and people , supreme power under christ , as to church affairs , and accountable only to christ , and to a council of their fellow bishops , often meeting and consulting together for the good of the whole . a bishop of the church of england , by all the law in the christian church in all ages , and by the particular law of this land , in case of offence , is to be try'd by his metropolitan and suffragans . the bishop of london's council urged in behalf of the bishop , for not suspending dr. s. without a legal process . that absolute suspension supposes a proof of the crime , &c. and that where there is an absolute suspension , there ought to be citation , form of proceeding , judgment and decree ; and that to act otherwise is contrary to the laws of god , of nature ; of all nations in all ages , and was never known in the world. my lord , i always have , and shall count it my duty to obey the k. in whatever he commands me , &c. but in this , i humbly conceive , i am oblig'd to proceed according to law ; and therefore 't is impossible for me , to comply ; because , tho' his majesty commands me only to execute his pleasure , yet in the capacity i am to do it , i must act as a judge ; and your lordship knows no judge condemns any man before he have knowledge of his cause , and have cited the party — from him that will never be vnfaithful to the k. &c. to suspend is a judicial act , which cannot be done without hearing the cause . when the king commands a judge , he commands him to act as a judge . the ecclesiastical commissioners would not declare the bishop of london suspended , till he had been fully heard . the prince of orange in his declaration , represents the proceedings against the bishop of london , as one of the great grievances he came to redress ; the commissioners ( says he ) suspended the bishop of london , only because he refus'd to obey an order that was sent to him to suspend a worthy divine ; without so much as citing him before him to make his own defence , or observing the common forms of process . the substance of what is said in answer to this query is , 1. that a clergyman cannot be regularly depriv'd but by bishops . 2. that a clergyman cannot be suspended but by a legal process . 3. that a bishop cannot be try'd or depriv'd but by his collegues , that is , bishops . 4. that those that are depriv'd , without a hearing , or by incompetent judges , cannot be so properly said to be depriv'd as violently thrust from their places ; and therefore it will follow , 5. that a bishop being not regularly depriv'd , is , to all intents and purposes , the canonical bishop of his see , and a priest the true and lawful pastor of his flock ; and the people consequently owe obedience to them , and cannot forsake their communion without incurring the guilt of schism . q. were not the protestants in q. mary's days guilty of schism , in making separate meetings under the then depriv'd bishops ? a. i willingly grant that in times of manifest corruptions and persecutions , such as the roman and marian were , private meetings are lawful and necessary duties ; because if men do forbid what god has commanded , it is better to obey god than man. 't is plain that the schism is on the side of the papists , who upon pretence of papal authority , did withdraw themselves from the communion of their own bishops , [ after an universal agreement and concurrence in the communion , of the church of england for ten or eleven years together ] and make a formal division in the church , which was before united in peace and truth . the popish bishops , that were set aside in q. elizabeth's reign , did possess the places of lawful bishops , yet living , or united themselves to such as did possess them , therefore they were schismatical , and no lawful bishops of the church of england . for as soon as these lawful bishops were turn'd out , others were put into their places , and not only so , but contrary to all rule and orderly government in the church . for the most certain fundamental constitution of the church in all ages ; and the constant order of all societies ( which is always tacitly suppos'd , tho' not formally observ'd ) is that while particular churches keep to the faith and vnity of the catholick church , as ours had done , all things ought to be managed by the arch-bishop and bishops of the province , and so by the chief governors and main body of the society , or else things cannot regularly be done . 't is confess'd that 14 or 15 bishops were turn'd out , or went away in q. elizabeth's days , but according to our author 's own argument , they were schismaticks and no lawful bishops , because they came into the places of lawful bishops , while they were alive , or else were ordain'd by , and communicated with such schismaticks . i add they vsurp'd their places by turning out the metropolitans , and major part of the bishops of each province , and so could have no lawful authority , or jurisdiction . the true right and authority of the church was in those lawful bishops , that were made in k. edward's days , and that was the true church of england which did adhere to their constitutions . they [ q. mary's bps. ] were no lawful bishops , because they either did schismatically invade the places of the lawful bishops , or else were willingly consecrated , and did joyn in communion with those schismatical bishops : when the queen [ eliz. ] therefore did set them aside , she did but dispossess men , who had no just right , and remove those by her civil authority , who had no power , but what they had by force , and the secular constitution . all else but thirlby , were ordain'd by , or communicated with them during their schism and usurpation , and therefore neither the ordainers , nor ordained had any right or jurisdiction in the church of england . that which is essential , and the authority and power to execute the sacred office of a bishop , or priest in their respective charges , is deriv'd from the bishops of the province ; and after great violence and disorder , from as many , or the major part of them , which survive . every bishop and priest orderly constituted in his place , do's act by the power and appointment of the catholick church , and they contemn the catholick church , that desert and disturb them in the performance of their office. hence we may understand our saviours meaning , when he says , if he neglects to hear the church , let him be unto thee as an heathen man , and a publican : which in the first place do's require us to hear our own particular parish priest , and bishop , whilst they are constituted , and live in the unity of the church , but principally it does oblige us to hearken to the catholick church . so that if our own pastors turn hereticks , or set themselves up by undue means , and not according to the order of the church , they are not to be hearkned to , but we must according to our saviour's command , hear the church , and not those pastors that will not themselves hear and obey the church . the popes usurp'd authority , and his prohibition of joyning with our english bishops , made the first schism , and is the hindrance to keep them from now joyning in communion with us . for the first 10 years of q. elizabeth , the papists did communicate with us , till the bull of pope pius iv. an. 1569 / 70. tho' our reformation was then fully setled . so that they are bound to answer it , why they joyn not still in communion with us . we can say , the pope never had any setled and quiet possession , and exercise of power here , at least for any considerable time together , as is at large evident from what mr. prynn and others have collected ; and all our statutes of provisors , and premunire's do show how little hold here the pope was by our government allow'd , or own'd to have . and tho' many did appeal to rome , it was against law ; and therefore that gives the pope no more right here , than many peoples being traiterous , and paying homage to an usurper , doth annul the right and title of the lawful prince . the church of england bishops are guilty of no schism , from the church of rome ; their order is undoubted , and their succession uninterrupted , and so their title and authority is as firm and unquestionable as any upon earth ; and they must be schismaticks before god and the catholick church , that do not submit to them , and joyn in their communion in all lawful things . if we look over the ancient canons of the church , we shall find two things very plain in them . 1 that the notion of a church was the same with that of a diocess ; or such a number of christians as were under the inspection of a bishop . or , 2ly . that those presbyters who rejected the authority of their bishop or affected separate meetings , where no fault could be found with the doctrine of a church , were condemn'd of schism . so the followers of eustathius sebastenus , who withdrew from the publick congregations on pretence of greater sanctity and purity , in paphlagonia , were condemn'd by the council at gangrae ; so were those who separated from their bishops , tho' otherwise never so orthodox , by the council at constantinople , and the council at carthage ; wherein before s. cyprian had so justly complain'd of the schism of felicissimus and his brethren , who , on pretence of some disorders in the church of carthage , had withdrawn to the mountains ; and there laid the foundation of the novatian schism . but when false doctrine was imposed on churches , as by the arian bishops at antioch , then the people were excused in their separation ; so at rome when felix was made bishop ; and at sirmium when photinus publish'd his heresie ; but i do not remember one instance in antiquity , wherein separation from orthodox bishops and setting up meetings without their authority and against their consent was acquitted from the sin of schism . the substance of what is contain'd in the answer to this query amounts to this , viz. 1. that k. edward's bishops were true and canonical bishops . and the popish bishops in q. mary's days intruders . 2. that those that adhered to k. edward's bishops in queen mary's days , altho' depriv'd , were the true church , and consequently those that forsook their communion were the schismaticks . q. whether a particular church , ( suppose the roman ) being schismatical , yet keeping possession of all the churches , may be said to separate ? a. yes . for private meetings , in such a case , commence churches , and the churches become conventicles , according to the definition given of a conventicle above . viz. that a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismaticks . if rome has , by the many additions , &c. err'd , she may be said to have left , and gone from , or be separated from that first , holy , catholick and apostolick church , without making an open schism or schismatical separation . — so far then as any church now in being shall depart from the doctrine of the ancient , catholick church , and profess great and many errors , and broach new doctrines , unknown to the primitive churches , and lay mighty stresses upon them , so as to make them necessary for communion here , and to salvation hereafter , such a church may be said to depart or separate it self , from that ancient , one , holy , catholick and apostolick church . it is true , that they who first desert and forsake the communion of their christian brethren , are schismaticks ; but there is a moral defection , as well as a local . in a word , he that forsakes the assemblies of catholick christians is a schismatick , not he that goes not to a church : for where-ever christians , tho' in a den or cave of the earth , worship god , in the unity of the church , there is the church of god. q. are the dissenters schismaticks ? a. yes doubtless , for they not only set up separate meetings in opposition to bishops , but renounce all episcopal authority , and usurp the power of ordination , which did always belong to the order of bishops . as for the government of the church , we are assur'd partly from scripture , and partly from the earliest antiquity , that the order of bishops and metropolitans , rests upon apostolical institution . both timothy and titus , in the judgment of the most learned presbyterians , were superiour to the rest of the clergy , within their districts , at least in jurisdiction , if not order . — the bishop presided over a city , and the adjacent villages and territories ; where a temporal magistrate was likewise plac'd . as the metropolis of every province had its proconsul in the state , so it had its archbishop or metropolitan in the church . and when the government of patriarchs prevail'd , it was form'd after the same model , either in imitation of the vicars or lieutenants that presided over a diocess , composed of several provinces ; or at least in imitation of the praetorian prefects that had several dioceses under their jurisdiction . all those that set up altar against altar , and hold separate congregations contrary to the law of this church , are to be held as schismaticks , and were condemn'd for such by the ancient general and particular councils , and all the catholick fathers and martyrs , and thought not sit to be receiv'd into christian communion , or accounted lively members of the catholick church . as 't is a high crime to affront a judge duly commissionated , so it is no less than rebellion for an able lawyer , without a commission , to assume to himself the office and authority of a judge . and why it should be in temporal judges , and not in spiritual appointed by god , as the bishops are in the opinion of this lord chief justice , [ hales ] i cannot see ; i am sure 't was ever thought so by all sober christians , till our unhappy rebellion nurs'd people up in schism and disobedience . were it [ episcopacy ] but an human ordinance of yesterday , establish'd by due course of right , let me be bold to say , that if aerius withdrew his submission to it , he must come within epiphanius's list of hereticks : not understanding an heretick in st. augustin's sense , to be none but he that will not believe some point of doctrine necessary , as the means of salvation , to be believ'd : but , according to the latitude of the word , taking all to be hereticks that make sects , and assemble themselves a part besides the church of god lawfully settled . as for episcopal ordination that was accounted as necessary , in the primitive church , to the making a bishop , priest or deacon , as baptism to make a christian : and unless the dissenters can produce a better , that is , a more ancient charter than the bishops have , which i am sure they can never do , the sole power of ordination must be still in them , and those that pretend to it must be vsurpers , and consequently schismaticks . dr. sherlock says , but by what authority i know not , that the church of england does not deny , but that in case of necessity , the ordinations of presbyters may be valid . — but he says , with respect to the dissenters , that the case of schism is a different thing — and i believe , says he , our author himself will not say that schismatical presbyters may take this power , or that their ordinations are valid , if they do . and this is the case between us and the dissenters : they ordain in a schism ; and tho' necessity may make an irregular act valid , yet schism will not . the novatians were episcopal and so were the donatists ( says mr. baxter ) and yet how have they been judged of for their schism i need not tell : they are very much to blame that say the presbyterians or independents troubled the primitive church : it was impossible for them to be troublesome before they were at all : it seems all the sects and schisms of that time thought they had no right to pretend to be a church , unless they had bishops : but these anti-episcopal separatists were reserv'd , it seems , for the last times , as the severest curse , and judgment that could befall the church . those episcopal schismaticks indeed divided the church , but these quite dissolve it . it has been the tradition and doctrine of the christian church in all ages , even from the apostles time to this very day , that no ordinations are valid or ought to be made , but by bishops , to whom the greatest authority of governing the church is committed . i admire this [ episcopal ] government and institution , because under it i am in no doubt of the validity of the ordinations of our ministers , or of the validity of the sacraments by them administred : for we have our orders by a continu'd succession from the ancients , and so from the apostles , which is the only ordinary way , that i know of , for a man to be commissionated to act in christ's name . i suppose no man will deny that all ordinations in schism , are meer nullities , tho' made by persons rightly ordain'd , because against the unity of the church . we believe with st. jerom , that the power of ordaining belongs only to the bishop , and your [ dissenters ] ordinations made by presbyters are all void and null ; and , till you can prove the contrary , we take you for no more but a parcel of lay-intruders into those holy functions to which you have no right , ( those of you only excepted who have been episcopally ordain'd . ) in the first place , i must put him in mind , that as no man is to meddle with the sacred offices ( except he be called of god ) no man to preach except he be sent : so no man is to call or send as from god , but he that is authoriz'd by him for that purpose . neither can i see any reason , why a man may not as well be a minister of jesus christ , without any mission at all , as by the mission of those persons who never were sent themselves . i believe there never was any case of absolute necessity for lay-ordinations ; but if possibly such should happen as the gentleman mentions , [ of a company of lay-men being cast upon an island , or remaining in some country , when their pastors are all kill'd , or turn'd hereticks ] i am apt to believe that bishops and ministers duly ordain'd might be had from other countries , and if not , methinks it would be reasonable and fit , that we should first see what god would do in such cases , before we presume to do any thing of our selves , for which we have no scripture warrant . basil is so resolute upon his prerogative , that he will not endure they [ chorepiscopi ] should ordain as much as the inferiour clergy , as deacons , sub-deacons , readers , and several others , which the church of that time reckon'd among the clergy , without his consent ; and if they do , let them know ( says he ) that whosoever is admitted without our consent , shall be reputed but a lay-man : what would he have said if they had pretended to ordain presbyters or bishops in opposition to them ? the bishops of the church of england desire no more than st. basil assum'd , that none should be reputed priests or deacons that were ordain'd in their dioceses without their consent , and that by simple presbyters , who were never chorepiscopi , or had any character to distinguish them from other presbyters . therefore the case ought not to be reckon'd so hard , as it is commonly represented by the more moderate nonconformists , who pretend this point of re-ordination the only bar that keeps them out of the church , since there was never any other church , not any in ancient times would have received them upon any other terms : and they must have remain'd nonconformists under basil , athanasius and all the ancient bishops , whose names are , and always have been had in veneration with all christians ; not one of these would have ever been perswaded to own a pastor that his presbyters had ordain'd in opposition to him , nay hardly could they have been prevail'd with to admit such as any other bishop should ordain within their diocess ; so extream punctilious they were in this matter ; and there is hardly any one thing that caus'd so frequent and dangerous contentions between them as the point of ordination . q. may orders given in a schism be made afterwards valid ? a. tho , as was said above , all ordinations in schism are meer nullities , and tho made by persons rightly ordain'd , yet we find such ordinations made valid , by the meer decree of the church , without ordaining a new , as the meletians in egypt , by the council of nice , in epiphanius and the church histories ; and as pope melchiades , much commended for it by st. austin , offer'd , to receive all the donatists in their own ranks , besides divers others that might be produc'd . the only reason why some things , tho they be ill done , yet are to stand good , is , because the power that doth them extends to them , but is ill us'd . so when the power is usurp'd , as in all schism , or when that is done , which the law makes void , it can be to no effect . therefore when the act of schism is made valid , it is manifest , that the order of bishop and presbyter , is conferr'd in point of right , by the meer consent of the church , which by the precedent ordination was conferr'd only in point of fact , being a meer nullity in point of right . — it hath been often practis'd by the church , to receive , not only schismaticks , but even hereticks also , ( that is , such as had receiv'd orders of those , that parted from the church , upon an error of faith ) in their respective orders . but always upon condition of renouncing the cause of their division ; whereupon they were to receive the blessing of the church , by prayer with imposition of hands . the reason was because neither is baptism in schism effectual to salvation , nor ordination in schism effectual to grace , by ministry of any office in schism . but being renounc'd , there remains no cause , why their ministry should not be effectual to their people ; their baptism and their ministry to their own salvation ; supposing it sincerely renounc'd . therefore the reason why they who are ordain'd by presbyters cannot be receiv'd in their respective orders , is peremptory ; because the schism , consisting in ordaining against authority , cannot be renounc'd , unless the ordination be voided . for so long as the ministry may be usurp'd upon such ordination , so long is the schism on foot . i can see no reason why the line of ordination may not pass thro a schismatical church ; for altho by schism people are out of the church , and while they continue so , cannot enjoy the benefit either of ordination or sacraments ; yet to say , that both are absolutely destroy'd , and nullifi'd ; so that a schismatick loses the chracters , and can neither be a christian nor a bishop ( i e ) not the subject of apostolical power , till he be again baptiz'd and ordain'd , is an assertion beyond all that i could ever yet meet with . the meletians were schismaticks , and yet those ordain'd by meletius were receiv'd into places where others dyed &c. i think that orders and regularity of episcopal succession will suffice to make them lawful bishops , who for corrupting the doctrin of the church ; shall not be allow'd to be good ones . q. whether toleration will excuse from schism ? a. an act of parliament would deliver the dissenters from temporal punishments , and might deliver them from the sin of disobedience to civil governours ; but the guilt of schism will remain still , unless he [ mr. h. ] thinks the donatists were not schismaticks , when julian the apostate with an uniting design , granted a general toleration . so that this project may secure the estates , but cannot secure the souls of dissenters ; schism will damn men , tho they should get it establisht by act of parliament . there is nothing more or less in a toleration , than a suspensiou of the penal part of the law , this is all that it can do , and perhaps more than it ought . for i believe there ought to be no such thing as a toleration , and that 't is more than either the church or state can rightfully grant . we do not derive the grounds of obligation to ecclesiastick communion from the authority of the civil law , ( tho' that must be allow'd to add a considerable weight to the obligation ) but also , and chiefly from that of the divine law ; which i conceive to be as positive and express in requiring unity and conformity of worship , as in requiring any religious worship at all . no license given , no toleration granted , no exemption from temporal penalties in case of separation allow'd by men , is sufficient to excuse from the guilt of schism those that separate from the true christian church , whereof they were members , or to render their schism no sin . human lawgivers may give leave to their subjects to be of any religion , or to be of no religion ; but if they do , they can't make it lawful in it self , either to be atheists or to profess a false religion , or to forsake the communion of the true church ; for to believe a god and to worship publickly , and to worship him in the assemblies of the faithful , are duties that are laid upon us by a higher than any humane authority ; and therefore no humane authority can discharge us from them . the law can take away and discharge us from no obligation , but that which its self laid on us ; so that all the meaning of the largest and most unlimited toleration that the law can grant , is no more than this viz , a declaration that men shall not be liable to any temporal mulcts or penalties , or be any ways punish'd by the civil power , upon the account of any differences in religion , or for being of no religion at all ; but if antecedently to the establishment of any church by the civil power , and if antecedently to the enacting any penal laws to oblige men to hold its communion , it was schism to separate without cause , from that christian church , whereof we were members , and such schismatical separation was a sin before god , then so it will be still , notwithstanding any license or toleration that can be granted by the secular power . toleration is not only a means to encourage those that are already engag'd in schism , to continue so , but by experience is found the most effectual way to multiply new swarms of schismaticks &c. when a particular church enjoys a civil establishment , it receives , as it were , a new authority ; in as much as it becomes a civil right or property : so that unless its constitution is materially vicious and sinful , it s a high piece of injustice to destroy or infringe any of its establish'd rights or immunities . but yet since the magistrate is only the guardian , not the founder of a national church , ( its original authority resting on certain positive laws and sanctions enjoyn'd by a power superior to that of the magistrate , even that of god himself ) wherever a church in any province or nation , professeth the true religion by an orthodox faith , and a pure worship under lawful church governours and pastors , that is the true national church , in opposition to all dissenting sects and parties ; tho' it wants the authority of a civil establishment . it is indisputably evident that the christian church is one society , or body of men united to christ , and each other in certain external , as well as internal and spiritual bonds of union . it s certain one great design of christianity , is vnity ; or to range all the parts and members of the church of christ into an holy building : and therefore if the magistrate is constituted a guardian of the true religion , all his offices of succour and protection must be directed to this end ; i mean the bonds of catholick vnity , throughout his whole dominions . without this , the great ends , and proposals of so pure and holy a religion , cannot be accomplisht ; and therefore whatever indulgences or exemptions the christian magistrate may rightfully grant to erroneous judgments , or consciences , acted with simplicity and a pious disposition ; he cannot upon the laws and oeconomy of the gospel , or any authority deriv'd to him from thence rightfully give a positive establishment , within the districts of the same government , to two opposite communions or altars of worship ; especially when one of them is founded in a revolt , from a pure and orthodox national church . this is the very reverse to a protector and defender of the true religion . so great a sin did the ancient fathers account schism , before the happy union of the church and empire , when the meetings of the schismaticks were as much tolerated by the state , as the meetings of the catholicks ; and upon the same principle donatism and arianism were accounted as damnable sins every jot , under the reigns of those emperours , who granted toleration to them , as under the reigns of those who made laws against them . nay all the laws which constantius and valens made in favour of arianism , and for the establishment of it , did not alter its damnable nature in the judgment of the catholicks ; neither indeed is the obliquity of schism alterable by humane laws and constitutions , as being a transgression of a divine positive law , which god hath made for the preservation of the body politick of his church , to which schism is as destructive in its nature , as rebellion is to the state. q. whether persecution or force will excuse from schism ? a. if the church of england be a truely catholick church , as the divines of all reformed churches abroad will tell them [ the dissenters ] she is , then they must be guilty of schism , which is a separation without a just cause from the church , as a church , without any regard to the state. for schism or separation , without a just cause , is a pure spiritual crime , and was reckon'd a damnable sin , before the church christian was united to the empire , as also in those unhappy intervals of persecution , when the church and empire were disunited again . for example , it was a damnable sin when st. paul charg'd the ephesians to keep the unity of the spirit &c. it was a damnable sin when he told the corinthians , that they were all baptiz'd by one spirit into one body , and that , as the natural body was made one by the union of many members in it , so also was the body , meaning the body politick of christ . it was a damnable sin , when st. ignatius taught the churches , that nothing should be done without the leave of ●●e bishop , or in opposition to him , and that , that was only a valid eucharist which was administred by him , or by one licens'd and appointed by him . and that makers of schism could not inherit the kingdom of god. it was a damnable sin , when st. cyprian call'd private meetings , in opposition to the publick conventicles of the devil ; and said that private altars were no altars ; and that if a schismatick should die for christ , he could be no martyr , nor have any right to the crown of martyrdom ; for which he alledges the words of the apostles , tho i give my body to be burnt , and have not charity , it profits nothing &c. when great exigencies force men to do any thing which otherwise they would not do , they are said to do it unwillingly , and to act against their judgments and inclinations ; and particularly when for fear of ruining and exterminating penalties , which humanly speaking , are intolerable , men conform to any religion , which otherwise they would disown ; tho as to outward conformity and communion , they are of it , yet they are not for it in their hearts . i confess men ought to endure any thing , rather than to conform to any religion , which they believe to be false , or subscribe to any confession , which they believe not to be true , but yet we see the frailty of humane nature is such , that extream severity will make them comply , against their wills with a religion they certainly know , and firmly believe to be false . no humane law can make that lawful , which god has forbidden ; nor that vnlawful which he has commanded . no church in the world can lay an obligation upon a man to be dishonest , that is , to profess one thing and do another ; which is dissimulation and hypocrisie . and no church can oblige a man to believe what is false , or do what is vnlawful ; rather than do either he must forsake the communion of that church . touching the worship of god , since the divine establishment of the publick christian service , is contain'd in the gospel , no authority upon earth hath any right to prohibit this . and those christians , who rightly worship god , in the true catholick communion , according to the apostolical and primitive church , have a right to hold such assemblies for the christian worship , as appear useful for the churches good , tho this should be against the interdict of the civil power . seeing church communion is a duty laid upon us by god ; it plainly follows , that no humane authority can release us from our obligation to it . sometimes persecution it self is the most prolifick soil for the true religion to shoot forth and flourish in : christianity had not only its first foundation in it , but we are assur'd , received great increases from it . the primitive christians frequented the service of god , when they were in danger of the laws , because , that which the laws forbad , was their assemblies . the main point of that charter which makes the church a society is the right of assembling , and holding such assemblies , without warrant , against all law of the world that forbids it . the christian indeed is obnoxious to the power of the prince , but christianity is without the reach of his sword. passive obedience is our principle , and if this renders the legal establishment of our religion more obnoxious to the pleasure of the civil magistrate , yet it better secures our common christianity . the head of every state is so absolute ; over the persons that make the church , that the independent power thereof , in church matters , will enable it to do nothing against , but suffer all things from the sovereign . and yet , so absolute , and depending on god alone , [ is the church ] in church matters , that if a sovereign , professing christianity should not only forbid the profession of that faith , or the exercise of those ordinances , which god has requir'd to be serv'd with , but even the exercise of that ecclesiastical power , which shall be necessary to preserve the unity of the church , it must needs be necessary , for those that are trusted with the power of the church , not only to disobey the commands of the sovereign , but to use that power , which their quality , in the society of the church , gives them , to provide for the subsistance thereof , without the assistance of secular powers . a thing manifestly suppos'd by all the bishops of the ancient church , in all those actions , wherein they refus'd to obey their emperours , seduc'd by hereticks , and to suffer their churches to be regulated by them , to the prejudice of christianity : particularly in that memorable refusal of athanasius of alexandria , and alexander of constantinople , to admit the heretick arius to communion , at the instant command of constantine the great . which most christian action whosoever justifies not , besides the appearance of favour to such an heresy , he will lay the church open to the same ruin , whensoever the sovereign power is seduc'd by the like . and such a difference falling out , so that , to particular persons , it cannot be clear , who is in the right , it will be requisit for christians , in a doubtful case , at their utmost perils , to adhere to the guides of the church , against their lawful sovereign , tho to ●o other effect , than to suffer for the exercise of christianity , and the maintenance of the society of the church in unity . if it be here objected that this seems to strike at the kings supremacy &c. it may be answer'd that , min. tho kings and princes are not properly officers and governors a distinct , church , as a church , it being not a civil or secular , but of christ's spiritual society ; yet to them is to be given the external management of this society , a power to settle its outward policy , and to be the moderators and governors of it : upon this account the great constantine stil'd himself a civil bishop , as being chiefly concern'd in the guidance and direction of the outward affairs of the church . the bishops and pastors of the church have their ordination and decree their commission from an higher power , even christ ; but they act and exercise it under the protection of the supream magistrate . our writers divide ecclesiastical jurisdiction into internal , the inward government which is in the court of conscience ; or external , that which is practis'd in exteriour courts ; that proceeds by spiritual censures ; this by force and corporal punishments ; that is appropriated to the clergy and incommunicable to the secular power ; this is originally inherent in the civil supream , and from him deriv'd to ecclesiastical governors . ecclesiastical jurisdiction , when said to be annex'd to the crown , ought to be understood in the latter sense . we of this church depend upon the king and parliament for the legal establishment of our religion , but not for the truth of it ; the former is changeable , because men are so , but the latter is not so , because god changeth not . to destroy the legal establishment of a religion is one thing , and to destroy the religion is another , for all the sacredness , that humane law can give to a religion is a legal sacredness , and no more , or if you please a legal establishment . the church of england thinks no acts which are purely spiritual want the kings concurrence ; her sacraments and her censures she esteems valid independently on all humane authority . her charter she derives immediately from christ . &c. the king is our supreme governor under god , but we know of no supreme governor that is to be obey'd absolutely , without any limitation whatsoever , but god himself . the kings supremacy in ecclesiastical matters doth not imply the power of the keys , which the king has not . by the supremacy we do not attribute to the king the power of the keys , or ecclesiastical censures . we never gave our kings the power of the keys or any part of either the key of order , or the key of jurisdiction , purely spiritual . tho the church is not endow'd with any coactive power , by divine right , yet by divine right , and by patent from god it is endow'd with a power of holding assemblies for the common service of god , before any grant of the powers of the world , and against any interdict of them , if so it fall out . the state is indow'd with no ecclesiastical right , tho it hath great right in ecclesiastical matters . as no state stands by the gospel , so , no right , settled by the gospel , can belong to any state , or person as a member of any state. the church subsisted 300 years before any state profess'd christianity , whatsoever rights it used , during that time , manifestly it ought therefore still to use and enjoy . the whole right of secular powers in ecclesiastical matters is not destructive but cumulative , that is , that it is not able to defeat or abolish any part of that power , which by the constitution of the church is settl'd upon ecclesiastical persons , but stands oblig'd to the maintenance and protection of it . the power , by which the king visits and reforms , is not spiritual , but political ; that a power is not given him to declare errors , but to repress them ; that the determination of heresie is by act of parliament limited to the authority of scriptures , four first general councils , and assent of the clergy i● convocation ; that the king hath not all the power given him which by any manner of spiritual authority may be lawfully exercised ( for he has not the power of the keys ) but a power given him to reform all heresies by civil authority , which the church can do by her spiritual . that it is impossible it should be prov'd that this power of visiting and reforming is a necessary invasion of the office of spiritual pastors , because when the prince doth it by them , commanding them to do the work , and exacting of them a discharge of their duty , he doth this without usurping their office , and yet doth it by a power , distinct from and independent on their's . and lastly , that the prince is oblig'd to take care that all acts of reforming be executed by their proper ministers , because else he transgresses the power prescrib'd in this statute [ 25. hen. 8. ] so to reform errors as may be most to the pleasure of almighty god. the clergy did indeed [ in hen. 8 time ] bind themselves not to promulge and execute any canons without the kings leave ; but the execution , of which they abridge themselves , is such as has influence on the civil rights of the subject , and therefore necessarily requir'd the concurrence of the supreme civil power . it is confest that the extream of raising the ecclesiastical power too high , in the times of popery , had now produc'd another of depressing it too much . but this was the infelicity of the clergy , not their crime . it is certain that before the empire was christian , the church was govern'd by its proper officers , as a society distinct from the state , and independent on it . who ever did account it schism in the gospel sense , and as the word is now used amongst christians , to disobey the unjust commands of the civil magistrate ? were christ and his apostles schismaticks ? were all the primitive christians schismaticks till constantine's time ? nay , were there not schismaticks all that while the church was a society that had laws and government contrary to the laws of the secular princes ? for does not st. paul tell the corinthians that there were schisms among them , and do we not find the novatians accounted schismaticks , and many others long before constantine's time ? nay moreover , were not the arians schismaticks under the reign of constantius and valens , tho they had the edicts of the emperour to favour them , which were then of as good authority as our acts of parliament are now with us ? or if we should ever have a popish parliament , that should command us to go to mass , and abolish our present constitutions , should we be schismaticks for not obeying them ? i hope not , there 's no such matter — christ has pastors and teachers in his church , and has promis'd to be with them to the end of the world , and commanded all good christians to obey them — the church did subsist before the magistrates favour'd it , and may continue again , tho kings and parliaments should leave of to protect it . we only are the poor , tame , dispirited , drowsy body , that are in love with our fetters , and this is the only scandalous part of our passive obedience , to be not only silent , but content with an oc — n of our p — rs which are not forfeited , nor forfeitable to any worldly power whatsoever . the sovereign power of the church consisting in the sword of excommunication , upon which the society thereof is founded , it is necessarily manifest , that this power is not lost to the church , nor forfeit to the state that professeth christianity , and undertakes the protection of the church . for the church and civil societies must needs remain distinct bodies , when the church is ingrafted into the state , and the same christian members of both , in regard of the relations , rights and obligations , which is the same persons , remain distinct , according to the distinct societies , and qualities of several persons in the same . therefore ; as no christian , as a christian , can challenge any temporal right , by his christianity , which , the state , wherein he is call'd to be a christian , gives him not : so on the other side , no man , by his rank in any state , is invested with any power , proceeding from the foundation of the church , as it is the church . so far as excommunication concerns barely the society of the church , any person , capable of sovereign power is liable to it , upon the same terms as other christians are , because , coming into the communion of the church , upon the same condition as other christians , the failing of this condition , must needs render the effect void . but , if we consider , either the temporal force , by which it comes to effect , or the temporal penalties , which attend on it , to these , which cannot proceed , but by the will of the sovereign , it is not possible that he should be liable . princes , as well as any other persons , must submit themselves to the power of the keys , in the undertaking the rules of repentance , so far as they are needful for procuring the favour of god , and obtaining the benefit of the keys by absolution . the pastoral office of the guides of the church , doth extend it self even to kings , with respect to the conduct of their souls ; but yet this doth not exempt them from being under the regal sovereignty . the habitual jurisdiction of bishops flows , we confess , from their ordination ; but the actual exercise thereof in publick courts after a coercive manner , is from the gracious concessions of sovereign princes . as for causes purely ecclesiastical , the bishop being supreme in his own diocess , there can be no original right of appeal from him , for there is no appeal from the supreme : he has a free power in the government of his own diocess , and must render an account of his actions to christ , who is the supreme lord of the church as st. cyprian tells us . while the clergy faithfully discharge their office , the prince ought to protect them ; and if for this they suffer , no doubt but they are martyrs . when the civil power will not own the church , the ecclesiastical governors , by their own authority , may establish necessary rules for order , as in the primitive times . bishop taylor tells us from fulgentius , that when frazamund king of bisac in africa , had made an edict under pain of death , that no more bishops should be consecrated , designing by that device to have the catholick faith rooted out of his dominions ; the bishops of the province , no way affrighted at the edict , met together and consecrated as many as were wanting , considering that those who were worthy of a mitre , need not fear to do their duty , when by so doing they are sure to receive a crown of martyrdom . if any such [ heretical or infidel ] prince should design to dissolve our succession , we have a canonical right to preserve our orders , and can but suffer penalties , which may oppress , but not null or vacate the validity of our ordination . no temporal christian powers have any authority in themselves to vsurp , extinguish , pervert , alter or retard , but only to inspect and assist the regular operations of the powers hierarchical within its own bounds . so that whatsoever offices thereof are fundamental to the catholick faith , charity , union and government of the universal and each particular church , and were receiv'd and practised for such in all ages before the empire became christian , are not to be violated by any acts of state. for if such violations were accounted persecutions in heathen emperours and princes , what can they be accounted in christian ones ? of these fundamental rights therefore i shall subjoyn some momentous particulars ▪ 1. it was a primitive and fundamental power and duty of bishops to convene in synods without restriction . 2ly . all ecclesiastical rights are so spiritual , that they cannot be by allowance and approbation of god or his church vested in any one in form of a temporal right , but only on this condition , that the parties intrusted with them , continue in the unity of the catholick church , and their own provincial bishops , as prelates of it , having immediate care of their souls . what princes have no rightful authority to do , that they may irresistibly do upon an uncontroulable domination and impunity . upon which , when they presume to repress our rights and liberties , if it be in matters necessary , they are to be disobeyed in fact , and submitted to as to their legal processes without resistance . the church is subject to all common-wealths , where it is maintain'd , in temporal matters : in those which concern the soul , whom shall we think our lord leaveth her in charge with , but those whom he trusteth with the keys of his house ? our church acknowledges the king to be supreme in all causes , and over all persons ecclesiastical . viz. that no quality in the church , nor cause of the church exempts a subject from the secular laws , and the sword of justice ; which may be very true , as it undoubtedly is , yet all manner of obedience in religious matters shall not presently become due to the king. for when sovereigns require the subjects to do things contrary to religion , if their subjects give but one manner of obedience to their laws , which goes with us under the name of passive obedience , it saves at once their acknowledgment of the sovereigns supremacy over them , and of gods supremacy over all . so that we are not oblig'd by our oath to become calvinists , &c. nor , in a word , to be of the king's religion , but to submit to his authority , let his religion be what it will , &c. if by [ the parliaments ] changing the church of england , you mean , that parliaments can make the religion , profess'd by the church of england , to become a false religion , when their inclinations are once vary'd from us , then i tell you , that the church of england is not changeable by english parliaments , nor by all the powers of the earth : for this matter is fix'd to their hands , and can never be unfixt to the end of the world. no ordinance of secular state can deprive our church of its essential rights given us from god , but only lay temporal punishments on us , for the use of them , without their permission . which if it be absolutely necessary for us at any time to do in opposition to the state , our ecclesiastical acts are not null , but valid to all effects purely ecclesiastical , and we can but suffer , and despise the penalty . the romanists triumph that we have no power to meet in convocation without royal licence , nor at liberty when there , to dispute one question without the kings allowance , nor are our conclusions valid without the king's ratification , whether catholick , heretick , heathen , turk or jew , on pain , of hampering by praemunire's , &c. but here it is to be remember'd , that these are impositions of the state , for which the church is not bound to advocate if they are persecutions : but if men would be just , they would pass the most favourable interpretations on publick sanctions , and herein conclude , that these statutes were intended ; not for persecution , but for caution only against those extravagancies , which the church had abus'd its freedom to , the kings always graciously promising us , on request , opportunity , to convene , and discuss our matters , as to us shall seem convenient , that we might have no cause to think that their laws are intended for persecution . and for the kings ratification it is justly necessary , not meerly to an ecclesiastical effect , but that our censures , for breach of these canons , may be seconded upon the contumacious by the writ de excommunicato capiendo , &c. it being no reason that the king should be the churches hackney without any consent of his own . — but if any prince should pervert these advantages to a persecution , we must then do our duty , and fear no sufferings . we hold our benefices by humane right , our offices of priests and bishops by divine right and humane right . but put the case we did hold our bishopricks only by humane right , is it one of your cases of conscience , that a sovereign prince may justly take away from his subjects any thing , which they hold by humane right ? if one man take from another , that which he holds justly by the law of man , he is a thief and a robber by the law of god. the substance of what has been said upon these two last queries amounts to this , 1. that toleration may excuse a schismatick from the penalty , but not from the guilt of schism . 2. that communicating with schismaticks , because tolerated , makes the crime less dangerous , but not less sinful . 3. that , tho' persecution or extreme severity in governours may make some men thro' humane frailty , to comply with a schismatical church , yet that will not excuse them from schism in the sight of god ; because they ought to obey god rather than man. 4. that , tho' the prince be supreme in ecclesiastical causes , yet he cannot alter religion at his pleasure , or injoyn a sinful worship ; and if he do's 't is no sin , but a duty to disobey him . 5. the bishops and governors of the church in such a case , are bound to defend the rights of the church against him , as the primitive christians did against the heathen emperours . 6. that all , even kings , are liable to church censures . q. whether a prince , being excommunicated by the church , may be resisted , depos'd , or murder'd by his subjects . a. it is contrary to the nature of excommunication , tho' in the highest degree , that any person , and especially a sovereign prince , should thereby lose those temporal rights which are not founded in their relation to the church . indeed in christian kingdoms there are ordinarily some temporal penalties , and abatement of legal privileges inflicted upon the persons excommunicate : but this is not the natural effect of that sentence , but is added thereto by the civil government and sovereignty , under which such persons do live . and therefore no such thing can take place with respect to sovereign princes , who have no temporal superiour to annex this as a penalty . sovereign princes are not liable to the sentence of excommunication , in the same manner with christian subjects . — a sovereign is capable of losing and forfeiting his relation to the society of the christian church , as well as other persons ; because as mr. thorndike ( rt. of the ch. ch. 4. p. 236. ) observes he , as well as others , comes into the communion of the church , upon the terms and conditions of christianity ; and a failure in the condition must make the effect void — the effect of excommunication is such , that it sometimes prohibits converse among private persons ; except in such relations , as do not depend upon the society of the church , and therefore remain intire , notwithstanding the separation , from that society ; as of parents and children , husband and wife , master and servant . and upon this account , no subject can , by virtue of excommunication , be prohibited converse with and discharge of all duty and respect to his sovereign ; because this is that which he owes him by the bond of allegiance , and the laws of nature , humane society , and civil polity . as for the objection , that excommunicate persons are not to be convers'd with , by st. paul's rule , it is answer'd by all divines , that it ceaseth , in such relations ( for example of parents and children ) as more ancient than the society of the church , which it therefore presupposeth : and so is to cease , in things necessary to civil society ) which christianity , as it presupposeth , so it enforceth , and not overthroweth . the church of england always declar'd against , absolutely condemn'd , and utterly detested , abhorr'd and abjur'd , that damnable doctrine and position , as impious and heretical , that princes who are excommunicated by the pope [ or any other bishop ] may be deposed or murdered by their subjects , or any other whatsoever . not only those assertions which directly contradict the articles of our creed , but those also which oppose the necessary rules and precepts of a holy life , which are a considerable part of the christian faith and doctrine have generally been esteem'd heretical doctrines in the church of god. in the council of constance that assertion , that an ill governing prince may lawfully or meritoriously be kill'd , by his subject or vassal , was condemn'd as erroneous in faith and manners , and rejected as heretical . those who in communion with the church of england , embrace that true christian doctrine , which was taught in the primitive and apostolical church , are as far from being concern'd in the crime and guilt of heresy , as loyal subjects are from being chargeable with rebellion . among all the heresies this age has spawn'd , there is not one more contrary to the whole design of religion , and more destructive of mankind , than that bloody opinion of defending religion by arms , and forcible resistance upon the colour of preserving religion . the wisdom of this policy is earthly , sensual and devilish , savouring of a carnal , vnmortifi'd and vnpatient mind that cannot bear the cross , nor trust the providence of god. have we some that deny the kings supremacy , and hold it lawful to depose and murder kings ? we owe these tenets and practices to the church of rome . a protestant rebel ( said the blessed martyr k. ch. 1st ) in the same degree of rebellion with a papist , hath far more to answer , as having more light , and it being more expressly against the religion he professeth , whereof it hath hitherto been a maxim ( tho it be now taken for apocryphal doctrin ) not to take up arms against their prince upon any pretence whatsoever . our law-givers piously declare , that , by the murder of our late dread sovereign , the protestant religion hath receiv'd the greatest wound and reproach , and the people of england the most insupportable shame that was possible for the enemies of god and the king to bring upon us . 12. car. 2. c. 30. i do humbly offer to your lordships deliberate thoughts these following considerations concerning the points of resistance . first that the christian religion doth plainly forbid the resistance of authority . 2ly . that tho our religion be establisht by law , ( which your lordship urges as a difference between our case , and that of the primitive christians ) yet in the same law which establisheth our religion it is declar'd , that it is not lawful upon any pretence whatsoever to take up arms , &c. besides that there is a particular law declaring the power of the militia to be solely in the king. and that ties the hands of subjects , tho the law of nature and the general rules of scripture had left us at liberty ; which i believe they do not , because the government and peace of human society could not well subsist upon these terms . 3ly your lordships opinion is contrary to the declar'd doctrine of all protestant churches , and tho some particular persons have taught otherwise , yet they have been contradicted herein and condemn'd for it , by the generality of protestants , and i beg your lordship to consider how it will agree with an avow'd asserting of the protestant religion , to go contrary to the general doctrine of protestants &c. it is so notorious , that it needs not proof , that our rigid sectaries have held it lawful , not only not to obey wicked kings ( whom they call wicked ) but also to resist them , to take arms against them , to have no further regard to them than if they were the most simple subjects within their realms , to excommunicate them , to depose them , to vn-king them , to take their crowns and thrones from them , and to banish or imprison them : for according to buchanan and his whole tribe , the band being broken between the people and the king , he loseth all his power and authority which he had by compact from the people . this is jesuitism with a witness , or else we have been vnjust in charging this doctrine upon the jesuits . that the authority of supreme lawful magistrates is divine is , and ever hath been , the plain and honest doctrine of the church of england . and i should have wonder'd how any wise man should not see it in the homily against rebellion , but that i do consider , that that homily is a looking-glass , wherein those , who have been traytors , cannot but see their own guilt and deformity , and therefore do not care to look at all into it . he that lifts up his hand against the lord 's anointed strikes at the face of god himself . our church doth not only teach [ non-resistance ] as her own doctrine ; but which is more effectual , as the doctrine of christ , and his apostles and of the primitive church . if there can be no clear way of reconciling the terrour menac'd by st. greg. nazianzen's father , bp. of nazianzum against julian's captain of archers , sent to rob and overthrow the church of nazianzum with the rules of christian patience , yet perhaps there may be to reconcile it with loyalty ; for julian was a rebel against his emperour constantius — so having forfeited all right of succession to constantius by rebellion , and not being elected by the lawful army of constantius , he was no other than as oliver cromwell had been in england , if all the royal family and relations had been extinct . so that if it were not done like a martyr , calmly to permit the wolf to raven as he hoped , yet it was no opposition to any lawful prince , or his commissioner , but an vsurper and his elf : and for any thing i know , prudential and venial , if no more than so , if not also laudable . and on this ground the solemn liturgies us'd openly against him , and the commendations bestow'd on him that kill'd him , tho one of his own army , may be justifi'd , not upon the account meerly of persecuting christianity , had he been a lawful prince , but for that he was an vsurper only of the empire , no lawful emperour according to the rules of imperial election . &c. a meer oliver cromwell and tyrannical intruder &c. the substance of what is said in answer to this query is this , 1. that christian princes , tho they are liable to church censures , yet they are not to temporal penalties , as deposition , exile , death . 2. that the doctrine of resisting and deposing lawful princes , upon pretence of excommunication , or any other pretence whatsoever , is damnable and heretical , contrary to the laws of this realm , and contrary to the doctrine , not only of our church , and all protestants , but of christ and his apostles , and the primitive christians . 3. that the crown [ in hereditary and successive monarchies ] descending from fathers to children , whether males or females , is not liable to be disposed , alienated , or sold ; nor doth it depend on any election , or choice of the people . 4. that monarchy hath at least as good a title to all its powers , rights , and privileges , as any of its subjects can have to their honours , properties and estates , and if subjects lose no temporal rights by excommunication , certainly princes ought not . q. whether the people are not oblig'd to communicate with the establish'd church , if superiour in number to any other communion , and more firmly united ? a. if the establish'd religion be corrupt in doctrine and worship , as in popish countries , or schismatical , as in some protestant kingdoms and states , they ought not to communicate with them , tho' their numbers be never so great , and they never so closely united . for if it be sinful to communicate with a false , or schismatical church ( as it certainly is ) its being establisht can never make it no sin. it is not the great number of church members in any diocess , province or patriarchate , but the cause and nature of the communion that makes a true church . — as i observ'd before , it is not the number of communicants , but the cause or soundness of communion that makes a true church ▪ and therefore were there both for kind and number , ten times as many more opposite sects and communions , as there are in this nation , and bishops at the heads of them all , yet upon supposition that the church of england is sound and apostolical in doctrine worship , and discipline , that small number , adhering to her communion , must be the true church . nay if all the bishops of england , but one , should fall away from the church of england , that one bishop , and the flock adhering to him , would be the true church of england , and as true and catholick a church , as if there were not one dissenter in the land. truth is to be follow'd with a few , if there are but few the follow it ; but thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil . truth is the same and changeth not , whether they be few or many that profess it ; and our religion stands not in a multitude of pretenders , but in a holy doctrine and a holy practice , whic● all ought to follow , even when the most do not . he who denies that the major part of the guides of the jewish church err'd , must also deny christ , since by such church authority he was rejected . he who will determine the prince to judge alwaies with the majority of church guides obligeth him in elijah's time to establish baalism ; and at other times calf-worship . if truth be alwaies on the side of the greatest number , which was the true church in abraham's time , when he was of a religion by himself ? was it in his small family , or amongst the idolatrous nations , that dwelt round about him ; or which was the true church in all that long tract of time from moses to our saviour ? was it not confin'd to a very small spot of land , even when it was at its largest extent ? and that again contracted to a much less compass in elijah's time , when there were not in ten of the tribes of israel , above 7000 men who had not bow'd the knee to the image of baal . 1 kings . 19. 18. again if that be alwaies the true church , which is the largest , time was when the arian hereticks were the true christian church , and the orthodox professors of christianity ( who were but a very few in number in comparison with them ) were consequently miserably deluded , and rank hereticks . in the text we are told , that many of our lord's disciples ( probably not fewer than 5000 ) went away from him at once , and ( as far as appears by the history ) there were only 12 that remain'd with him , a very small number in comparison with the great multitude that went away ; and yet there can be no doubt , but that these were the true church , and that they which went away were schismaticks . multitude may render a sect formidable , but 't is but a poor argument of right . suppose we were by much the fewer : so hath the church of god often been , without any the least prejudice of the truth of their religion . what think we of the church in abraham's time , which for ought we know was confin'd to one family , and one small kingdom , that of melchisedeck king of salem ? what think we of it in moses's time , when it was confin'd to one people wandering in a wilderness ? what of it in elijah's time , when besides the two tribes that worshiped in jerusalem , there were in the other ten but seven thousand that had not bow'd the knee to baal ? what in our saviour's time , when the whole church consisted of twelve apostles , and seventy disciples , and some few followers besides ? how would bellarmin have despis'd this little flock , because it wanted one or two of his goodliest marks of the true church , vniversality , and splendor ? and what think we of the christian church in the height of arianism and pelagianism , when a great part of christendom was over-run with these errors , and the number of the orthodox was inconsiderable in comparison of hereticks ? but what need i urge these instances ? as if the truth of religion were to be estimated and carry'd by the major vote ; which , as it can be an argument to none but fools , so i dare say no honest and wise man ever made use of it &c. the revolt [ to donatism ] in all parts of africa , was so general that the catholick communions look'd more like conventicles , than the catholick church . it is not bare vnion , but the things in which a church is united , that must truly recommend and justifie it to the christian world , and prove it to be the church of god. i believe there never was a more perfect union and agreement in the church of rome [ or in any other church ] than among the israelites which worshiped the golden calf ; nevertheless it was no schism to divide from them , because they united in a sin. their vnion was their crime . the corahites were as firmly united under corah , as the true church was under moses and aaron — the ten tribes were as firmly united at bethel , as the two were at hierusalem ; they had number , as well as vnion , to plead , but , notwithstanding both their number and union , they were but a great schism , because they united in innovations , contrary to the will of god. there hath been at several times as strict an union among hereticks and schismaticks , as among the catholicks . the novatians in particular were remarkable for their concord , unity and unanimity . so were the arians generally all of one communion , and very unanimous against the homousian doctrine , and yet they were but a great prevailing schism when they were at the highest , and had almost gain'd the whole christian world. from these examples 't is plain that in passing judgment upon churches we are not to look at the vnion , so much as the cause in which they are united . we are to consider if their doctrine and discipline be apostolical , and their terms of communion truly catholick , and if they be so , then their union in them is holy and laudable , and such as makes them the true churches of god. a concurrence of these things is the genuine badge of a truly catholick and apostolical church . the worst fraternities have sometimes the firmest union ; as we of this nation very well remember the time , when those of the great rebellion boasted , that god had united the hearts of his people in his cause , as one man ; nevertheless those pretended people of god , whose hearts and hands were so united , that we could not break their bonds of union asunder , were no better than a band of rebels , and their cause downright rebellion against god , and the best of princes , tho they acted in it as if they had been all inform'd with one common soul. the like hath often happen'd in ecclesiastical societies : the samaritans , who had neither sadduces nor phraisees , nor essens nor herodians , nor cabalists nor carraites among them , for that reason had a firmer union among themselves , than the church of the jews had , and yet they were not the true church . so among the ancient christians , the novatians liv'd in perfect peace and unity among themselves , when there were many feuds and contentions among the catholicks : which shews that bare vnity is not a good test whereby to try churches . the sum of what is said upon this query is , that 't is soundness in doctrine , discipline and worship that makes a true church , and not number and vnion . q. whether a well-meaning christian may not now and then , or occasionally communicate with a schismatical church ? a. we must not give countenance to the church assemblies [ of schismaticks ] by our presence among them , if we can avoid it . now if there be but one catholick church all the world over , then every separation is a schism on one side or other ; for where there are two separate churches , one , if not both , must be schismatical , because there is but one church : and if the unity of this church consists in one communion , which exacts a joynt discharge of all the duties of a church-relation , in hearing , and praying , and receiving the lord's supper , &c. together , then to forsake the church and meet in private conventicles , in distinct and opposite communions , for religious worship , is separation ; and when it is causeless , is a schism . you cannot be in communion with two churches which are in a state of separation from each other — for to be in communion with a church is to be a member of it , and to be a member of two separate and opposite churches , is to be as contrary to our selves , as those separate churches are to each other . wherever there are distinct and separate communions and churches , which do not own church-membership with each other , but , tho they live in the same place , yet divide into several distinct congregations , under different governors and opposite orders and rules , there is certainly a schism on one side or other : where there are two distinct and opposite communions , one of them must be schismatical , because there ought to be but one. to assert that there are more true churches than one ( how large or narrow soever the bounds of it be , which were not very large in the first institution of a church , and may be reduc'd again to a narrow compass , by a general apostacy ) is to justify schism by a law ; for then there may be distinct churches , and distinct opposite communions without schism , which is the most schismatical principle in the world , if christ have but one church and one body . it is impossible to joyn in communion with such men without judging and censuring those whom i believe , in those very acts of worship , in which i joyn with them , to be either superstitious or profane , and therefore tho' such men should worship in the same church , or religious assemblies , yet they do not worship in one communion . it is hard to understand , if occasional communion be lawful , that constant communion should not be a duty . q. whether salvation may be had out of the church ? a. it is universally agreed that there is no salvation to be had out of the catholick church . infidels , jews , turks , &c. that never were in the church ; hereticks that have forsaken or corrupted the faith , that was once deliver'd to the saints ; schismaticks that have divided themselves ; and excommunicate persons that are cut off from the communion of the church , without reconciliation , cannot be sav'd . for most certain is that rule of st. cyprian and st. austin , he shall not have god to be his father , that will not have the church to be his mother . we cannot run our spiritual race unless we be in the church , for there is no prize , no crown to run for out of it . and therefore those who lose , as well as those who win the prize must be in the church and members of it . catholick communion is our union in one body , and communicating in this one body is the exercise of catholick communion , which those who do not , if there be not a just and necessary cause for it , are schismaticks for all that , whatever their faith and worship be ; and schism is a damning sin. to disobey our governors , the bishops and pastors of the church , &c. hath been ever in the church of god accounted schism , and that schism damnable . we [ church of england and rome ] are thus far agreed , that schism and heresy are dangerous sins , destructive of the peace and order , the well being at least , if not the being of gods church , and such sins , as without a true and timely repentance , will unavoidably and eternally ruin those that are guilty of them . the being and well-being of the church are incompatible with schism , and it is not only evil because god hath forbid it , but god hath forbid it , because he knew it was evil and pernicious in its nature to his one catholick church . wilful schism is in all cases a damning sin. wilful schism puts men out of the state of salvation . christ has made schism a damning sin to give authority to the church . separation from the church of england is a schism , and schism is as damning a sin , as idolatry , drunkenness or adultery . the church which is the schismatick , according to the language of the primitive times , is out of the catholick church extra ecclesiam foris . all ministerial gifts are for the edification of christs body , which supposes , that their efficacy , and influence is confin'd to the communion of the church , and does not reach the conventicles of schismaticks . the increase and edification of christians is in the unity of the church , and consists in the increase of brotherly love and christian charity , virtues which cannot be learn'd in a schism . &c. christ's church was never inlarg'd yet by the preaching of schismaticks , which divides and lessens the church , but will never inlarge it . there is no doubt , but the spirit of god is departed from him , who is departed from the unity of the church . schismaticks have not the kind influences of the h. spirit , whereby the church is govern'd . whence not only all their gifts , but all their good works are utterly spoil'd and come to nothing . as a part cannot retain its sense and life , when it is out off from the body ; as the branch cannot bear fruit except it abide in the vine ; as a rivulet is soon dry'd up when separated from the fountain ; as a ray cannot subsist , when taken away from the sun ; so neither can a schismatick reap any profit from his gifts or good works , when separated from the rest of the church of christ . some are not sensible that it is any great harm to go amongst them [ i e schismaticks ] to pray with them , or to hear the gospel preach'd . but to joyn with them in those , otherwise , holy offices , is the way to become partakers of their sins , their sacrifices shall be to them as the bread of mourning , all that eat thereof shall be polluted . where two or three are gather'd together in christ's name , there is he in the mid'st of them ; not when they are gather'd against his name , and against the other members of the church . such mens prayers are not only ineffectual but execrable . their prayers and preaching and other parts of divine worship being perform'd in opposition to the other members of the church , are turn'd into sin ; and they come together , as the corinthians ( 1 cor. 11. 17. ) in a division of theirs , not for the better but for the worse . the efficacy of the prayers of the church , depends upon the unity of the church . it is agreed upon by the whole church , that baptism in heresy or schism , ( that is , when a man gives up himself to the communion of hereticks , or schismaticks , by receiving baptism from them ) tho it may be true baptism , and not to be repeated , being given in the form of the church ; yet is not available to salvation ; making him accessary to heresy or schism , that is so baptiz'd . we being many are one bread and one body , for we are all partakers of that one bread ; and upon this account it is call'd the communion of the body of christ — and therefore the body of christ cannot be receiv'd in a schism . for where there is a schism , it is no longer one bread and body , nor the communion of christ's body when it is divided into different and opposite communions . that which is the common bread of all christians must be receiv'd in vnity and one communion ; for it loseth its nature , virtue , and efficacy in a schism . if our saviour would not allow any man to offer any sacrifice to god , who had a private quarrel with his brother , till he had reconcil'd himself to him , how unlikely is it , that god will hear the prayers of those men who are at variance with the church of god , and divide the communion of it ? schism indeed we do say , is a damning sin ; but there may be divisions where there is not alwaies the guilt and formality of schism ; and we hope this is the case of all good men , who separate from the church , thro some invincible prejudices and prepossessions . — if men be sincerely honest and do fall into schism , thro an innocent mistake , god will be merciful to them , which secures the final happiness of good men . the substance of what has been said in answer to these two last queries is this , 1. that if christ has but one church , out of which salvation is not ordinarily to be had , then all christians are obliged , as they tender the salvation of their souls , to keep intire communion with that one church , and not to run , for fear , worldly interest , or wantonness , from the church to the conventicle , and from the conventicle back again to the church . 2. that if neither prayers , preaching nor sacraments have any efficacy or virtue , unless administred in the vnity of the church , nay if they are pernicious and execrable , it behoves all dissenters to forsake and renounce all their schismatical meetings , and to reconcile themselves to the church . 3. that if those only , who thro ignorance and prejudice , or the like , communicate with schismaticks , may , and that by gods extraordinary mercy too , be sav'd , then those who are guilty of wilful schism , or , wantonly gad from the church to schismatical conventicles , and are therefore really members of no church , are in a desperate condition . sir , according to my promise , i have given you the opinions of some of our eminent episcopal divines upon all your queries ; and could have added many more if needful , and upon the whole you will find that they are fully agreed , that those who forsake either the communion of lawful , and canonical bishops , and set up others in opposition to them ; or wholly reject the order , are notwithstanding any dispensation , exemption , toleration , or even legal establishment , compleat schismaticks . to conclude , communion is the strength and ground of all society , whether sacred or civil : whoever therefore they be , that offend against this common society , and friendliness of men , and cause separation and breach among them , if it be in civil occasions , are guilty of sedition or rebellion ; if it be by occasion of ecclesiastical differences , they are guilty of schism . therefore let you and i and all good christians and loyal subjects pray , as our church in her litany directs , from all sedition , privy conspiracy , and rebellion ; from all false doctrine , heresy and schism , good lord deliver us . and let us beseech almighty god that he would be pleas'd to bring into the way of truth all such as have err'd , and are deceiv'd ; to strengthen such as do stand ; to comfort and help the weak-hearted ; to raise up them that fall , and finally to beat down satan ( the author , and abetter of schism and rebellion ) under our feet — i am , sir , yours &c. postscript . sir , upon the review , i find my self oblig'd to beg your pardon for two things . the one , for not answering your queries in the same order as you propos'd them , and for adding one or two of my own . the other , for making my references so very short . ` as for the first , i shall presume upon your pardon , because it was done with a good design , viz. to make the whole more clear and intelligible . as for the other , i think i have aton'd , by sending you , together with the abbreviations , the titles at length of most of the books , the booksellers names , the years when printed , and the authors names , where they are set to the books ; and , where they are not , the names of the suppos'd authors , in crotchets , as you 'll see by the following catalogue . feild of the ch. of the church five books by richard feild &c. the 2d . edition , at oxford , imprinted by william turner &c. 1628. ham. of sch. the 2d . vol. of the works of the reverend and learned h. hammond d. d. the 2d . edition london printed for r. royston and r. davis in oxford 1684. bishop lon. try. a true narative of all the proceedings against the ld. bp. of london in the council chamber at whitehall , by the lords commissioners appointed by his majesty to inspect ecclesiastical affairs . london , printed and are to be sold by randal taylor near stationer's-hall . 1689. dr. lloyd's serm. on act. 2. 42. a sermon preach'd before the king at whitehall nov. 24. 1678. by william lloyd d. d. and dean of bangor and chaplain &c. london , printed for h. brome 1679. still . misc . separ . the mischief of separation , a sermon preach'd at guildhall chapel , may 2. 1680 before the lord mayor by ed. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. paul's , &c. london , printed for h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , &c. 1680. stil . unreason . separ . the unreasonableness of separation : or an impartial account of the history , nature and pleas of the present separation , &c. by edward stillingfleet d. d. dean of st. paul's &c. london , printed for h. mortlock . 1681. differ . case . the difference of the case between the separation of protestants from the church of rome , and the separation of dissenters from , &c. by dr. claget . london , printed for tho. basset and fincham gardiner . 1683. prot. resol . faith. protestant resolution of faith , in answer to three questions , &c. by dr. sherlock , london , printed 1685. ans . to the kgs. paps . an answer to some papers lately printed concerning the authority of the cath. church in matters of faith and reformation of the church of england [ by dr. stillingfleet ] london , printed for r. chiswell . 1686. vind. of ans . to the kgs. paps . a vindication of the answer to some late papers concerning the unity and authority of the cath. church , and the reformation of the church of england [ by ed. stillingfleet d. d. ] london , printed for r. chiswell . 1687. apologet. vind. ch. eng. an apologetical vindication of the church of england : in answer to those who reproach her with the english heresies and schisms , or suspect her not to be a catholick church , upon their account [ by geo. hicks d. d. ] london , printed for walter ketilby , 1687. vindic. ch. eng. from sch. a vindication of the church of england from the foul aspersions of schism and heresy unjustly cast upon her by the church of rome , pt . 1st . [ by mr. altham ] london , printed for luke meredith . 1687. plain fam . disc . a plain and familiar discourse by way of dialogue betwixt a minister and his parishioner , concerning the cath. church , in three parts &c. by a divine of the church of england [ dr. freeman ] london printed for r. clavel and b. took 1687. ans . to reas . and author . an answer to a book entitul'd reason and authority : or the motives of a late protestants reconciliation to the cath. church , &c. in a letter to a freind [ by dr. bainbrigg ] london , printed for brab . aylmer . 1687. animadvers . 8 thes . animadversions on the eight thes . laid down , and the inferences deduc'd from them in a discourse entitul'd church government . part 5. lately printed at oxford [ by mr. atterbury ] oxford , printed at the theatre anno. 1687. reflect . hist . pt . ch. govern. reflections on the historical part of ch. government , part 5. [ by mr. smadge , ] oxford , printed at the theatre , anno. 1687. reform . justif . the reformation of the church of england justify'd according to the canons of the council of nice , and other general councils , and the tradition of the cath. church , being an answer to a paper reprinted at oxford , call'd [ the schism of the church of england ] demonstrated in four arguments , &c. [ by dr. saywell ] cambridge , printed for ed. hall , 1688. discourse nat. vnity . &c. a discourse concerning the nature , unity , and communion of the cath. church wherein most of the controversies relating to the church are briefly and plainly stated pt . 1st . by will. sherlock . d. d. and master of the temple . london , printed for william rogers 1688. several capt. quer. several captious queries concerning the english reformation first propos'd by dean manby , &c. briefly and fully answer'd by dr. claget . london , printed for james adamson . 1688. cath. bal. the catholick balance ; or a discourse determining the controversies concerning , 1. the tradition of cath. doctrines . 2. the primacy of st. peter and the bishop of rome . 3. the subjection and authority of the church in a christian state , &c. [ by mr. hill of killmanton in somersetshire ] london , printed for r. clavel 1687. sherl . serm. nov. 4. 88. a sermon preach'd before the right honourable the lord mayor and aldermen of the city of london , at the guildhall chapel on sunday nov. 4. 1688. by w. sherlock d. d. mr. of the temple . london , printed for will. rogers , 1689. vindic. some prot. princ. a vindication of some protestant principles of church unity and cath. communion from the charge of agreement with the church of rome [ by dr. sherlock ] ans . to anonym . a letter to anonymus , in answer to his three letters to dr. sherlock about church communion . rev. m. h's . new notion . sch. a review of m. h's . new notion of schism , and the vindication of it . london , printed for e. mory , 1692. hellier's treat . sch. a treatise concerning schism and schismaticks , &c. by hen. hellier d. d. fellow of ccc . oxon. london , printed by r. smith for john crosley bookseller in oxford . 1697. blackall visit . serm. a sermon preach'd at brentwood in essex oct. 7. 1693 at the visitation , &c. by offsp. blackal . 2d . edition . london , printed for w. rogers 1699. necess . regul . press . a letter to a member of parliament , shewing the necessity of regulating the press , oxford printed 1699. thorn. weights and meas . just weights and measures , that is , the present state of religion weigh'd in the balance and measur'd by the standard of the sanctuary , according to the opinion of herbert thorndike . the 2d . edition . london , printed for j. martin . 1680. def. vnreason . separ . a discourse of church unity being a defence of dr. stillingfleet's unreasonableness of separation in answer to several late pamphlets but principally dr. owen and mr. baxter , by a presbyter of the church of england . [ dr. sherlock ] london , printed for r. chiswel . 1681. vindic. def. unreason . separ . a continuation and vindication of the defence of dr. stillingfleet's unreasonableness of separation in answer to mr. baxter and mr. lobb &c. by the author of the defence . london , printed for r. chiswell . 1682. 2d pt . unreasonable separ . the unreasonableness of separation : the 2d . part : or a further impartial account of the history , nature , and pleas of the present separation , &c. [ by mr. long ] london , printed for dan. brown at the black swan and bible , without temple barr. 1682. vindic. prim . ch . a vindication of the primitive church and diocesan episcopacy in answer to mr. baxter's church history of bps. &c. [ by h. maurice d. d. ] london , printed for moses pitt . 1682. ans . to prot. reconciler . a vindication of the rights of ecclesiastical authority being an answer to the 1st . part of the protestant reconciler by wm. sherlock d. d. mr. of the temple . london , printed for abel swale . 1685. falkner's christ . loyal . christian loyalty : or a discourse wherein is asserted that just royal authority , &c. by wm. falkner preacher at st. nicholas in lyn regis . london , printed for walter ketilby 1679. vindic. ch. and state of scotld . a vindication of the authority , constitution , and laws of the church and state of scotland in four conferences , &c. by gilbert burnet professor of theology in glasgow . printed by robert sanders printer to the city and university 1673. bram. just vind. a just vindication of the church of england , from the unjust aspersion of criminal schism , &c. by bp. bramhal . london , printed for john crook 1645. thornd . rt. of the ch. a discourse of the right of the church in a christian state : by herbert thorndike . london , printed for octavian pulien 1649. thorn. of forbear . a discourse of the forbearance or the penalties which a due reformation requires . by herbert thorndike , &c. london , printed for james collins , 1670. doctr. sch. doctrine of schism fully open'd and apply'd to gather'd churches , &c. by the author of toleration not to be abus'd by the presbyterians . london , printed for james collins and sold by abish . brocas in exon. 1672. long 's char. separatist . the character of a separatist ; or sensuality the ground of separation . by tho. long b. d. and prebendary of st. peter's exon. london , printed for walter ketilby 1677. long against hales of schis . mr. hales's treatise of schism examin'd and censur'd by tho. long. b. d. and prebendary of exeter . london , printed for walter ketilby 1678. faith and practice ch. engl. man. the faith and practice of a church of england man. london , printed for w. ketilby 1688. thorndike prim . ch. gover. of the government of churches a discourse pointing at the primitive form . printed by roger daniel printer to the university of cambridge . 1641. norris charge sch. charge of schism continued [ by mr. norris ] london printed for sam. manship at the black bull over against the royal exchange . 1691. saywel of vnity . evangelical and catholick unity , maintain'd in the church of england : or an apology for her government &c. by william saywell d. d. and master of jesus coll. in cambridge . london printed for robert scott and awnsham church-hill . 1682. finis . errata . page 9. line 13. r. roman . p. 33. l. 12. for distinct , r. of christ's church . l. 13. for of christ's church , r. distinct . p. 36. l. 2. for of , r. off . p. 37. l. 18. for bisac , r. brisac . p. 45. l. 4. r. himself . marg. p. 43. r. hill's cath. bal. p. 107. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a42125-e290 art. 19. dr. loyd ' s serm. on acts 2. 42. bramhal's just . vind. p. 23. id. disc . concerning the cath. ch. p. 2. vindic. of ch. eng. from sch. p. 10. stil . unreason . of separ . p. 299. id. p. 300. stil . misc . of separ . p. 19. faith and prac. of ch. eng. man. c. 1. doct. of sch. p. 42. stil . misch . of separ . p. 29. thorndike's weights and measures . p. 39. ham. of schism . p. 508. id. id. ibid. id. ibid. stil . vnreason . of sep. p. 107. doct. of sch. p. 40. ham. of schism . doct. of sch. p. 58. doct. of schism . p. 45. id. p. 60. ham. of schism . ham. of schism . p. 508. still . unreas . of separ . p. 209. vindic. of the ch. of eng. from schism . p. 16. id. id. vnreason . separ . p. 209. pref. to vnreas . of separ . sh●rl . vird. of def. p. 39● . doct. of sch. p. 66. id. p. 1●2 . id. ibid. bramhal . just . vind. p. 10. norris charg . sch. p. 93. ans . to the kings pap. p. 106. vnreason . of separ . p. 213. id. p. 148. long 's pref. to 2d . pt . unreas . sep. id. ep. to the char. of a sepa . apologet vindic . of ch. e p. 44 faith and practise of ch. eng. c. 3. long 's char. of sep. p. 6. sherl . serm. nov. 4. 1680. id. vind . of the def. p. 323. vind. kings pap . p. 106. id. p. 68. difference of the case p. 9. id. p. 44. vind of ch. e. from sch. p. 34. doctr. of sch. p. 66. vind. of ch. e. from sch. p. 10. id. p. 25. sherlock . bramhal . vind. of ans . to the king's pap. p. 67. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id. falk . chr. loy . p. 269. saywell of vnity p. 340. id. p. 11. id. p. 355. id. 388. faith and pract. ch. eng. man chap. 3. vind. of ch. eng. from sch. p. 34. vind. def. still . p. 401. sherl . vind. of def. p. 452. id. 453. sherl . def . of still . p. 254. id vind. def . p. 126. id. vind . def . p. 331. sherl . 2d . part . vn . com. p. 428. ans . to prot. reconciler . p. 258. id. p. 411. id. p. 168. id. p. 381. vind. ch. of eng. from sch. p. 22. thorndike of forbear . p. 15. id. rights of the ch. p. 278. vind. ans . to the kings papers . p. 23. thorndike's right of the church p. 276. faith and pract. ch. eng. man. c. 7. cath. bal. p. 62. vindic. of prim. ch. p. 308. cypr. ep. 55. ep. 69. ep. ad smyrn . id. p. 502 saywel of vnits ▪ p. 43. vnreason ▪ separ . p. 245. id. p. 240. id. 249. long 's ans . to hales of sch. p. 107. id. p. 180. saywel of vn . 193. ham. of schism out of ignatius . doctr. of schism . p. 45. def. of dr. st. p. 471. saywel of vnity . p. 393. thornd . prim. gov. ch. p. 117. sherl . ans . to anonym . st. cyprian . long 's ch. sep. p. 85. falkner's christian loyalty . p. 272. field of the ch. p. 512. vind. of def. p. 128. hills cath. balance . p. 86. faith and pract. ch. eng. m. cap. 1. bishop of lond. tryal . p. 6. id. id. id. bp. of london's letter to my lord sanderland . bp. londons council . p. o. declaration . long 's an. to hales of schism p. 147. reform . justify'd p. 6. id. p. 14. id. p. 17. id. p. 18. id. p. 20. id. p. 25. id. p. 27. id. ibid. saywel of vnity . p. 307. faith and pract. ch. of eng. man. c. 1. faith and pract ch. eng. man. chap. 1. reform . justify'd p. 29. mischief separ . p. 29. can. nic. can. 6. 15. 16. constan . c. 6. chalced. 17 , 20 , 26. antioch . c. 2. codex eccl. affric . c. 53. c. 55. conc. gang. c. 6. conc. constan . c. 6. conc. carthag . c. 10 , 11. st. cypri . ep. 40. 42. theod. eccl. hist . l. 1. c. 22. 1. 2. c. 24. c. 17. vincent . c. 16. hales . ans . to reason and authority . p. 66. bramhal just . vind. p. 10. letter concerning the necessity of regulat . the press ▪ p. 18. id. p. 19 ▪ saywel of vnity . p. 318. id. 395. thorndike prim . gov. of chs. p. 197. vind. of some prot. princ. p. 108. vindic. of the prim. ch. p. 330. saywel of vnity p. 324. faith and practice of a church of eng. man cap. 1. thorndike's rts. of the ch. p. 147. review of mr. m. hs. notion of schism . p. 50. id. p. 51. mat. 28. 18. jo. 2. 21. id. p. 53. vindic. of the prim. ch. p. 550. thorndike's right of the ch. p. 148. id. ibid. id. of forb . p. 69. rev. of mr. m. hs. new notion of schism p. 47. ans . to sev. capt . queries . p. 19. vind. def. of dr. st. p. 457. norris charge of sch. p. 26. id. p. 80. blackhalls serm. on jo. 6. 66. p. 14. id. p. 15. saywel of vnity . p. 137. letter about regulating the press . p. 22. id. p. 16. id. p. 23. apologet vind. of ch. eng. p. 92. id. p. 91. id. p. 51. vind. ans . to the kgs. papers . p. 98. id. p. 106. falkner's christian loyalty . p. 40. blackall serm. p. 17. letter about regulating the press . p. 14. thorndi . rt. ch. 1. 5. id. p. 6. reflections on the hist . pt . of church-governt . p. 50. id. ibid. thorndi . rt. of the ch. p. 233. ob. an. a plain and fam . disc . conc . the cath. ch. p. 6. reflect on hist . pt . of ch. gov. pt . 5. p. 21. ans . to several capt. queries . p. 26. id. p. 32. reflect . on the hist . pt . of ch. gov. p. 18. answ . to several capt. qu. p. 37. mason . andrews . bramhal . thorndike rt. of the ch. p. 4. id. p. 41. id. p. 42. id. p. 43. id. 168. vid. letter about regulating the press . p. 12 , 20 , 22 , 24 , 29. reflections on hist . pt . of ch. gov. p. 24. see letter about regulating the press . p. 12. id. p. 18. id. p. 31. burscough episc . p. 12. saywel of vnity . p. 138. municip . eccles . p. 119. thornd . rt. of the ch. p. 40. id. p. 237. vid. falkner's chr. loyal . p. 319. vid. cath. bal. p. 110 , &c. falkner's chr. loyal . p. 321. id. 225. vid. cath. bal. p. 118. animadv . on 8 thes . p. 41. vind. of some prot. prin . p. 88. and vind. def. p. 183. animadv . on . 8 thes ▪ p. 52. falkner chr. loyal ▪ p. 45. hill's cath ballance p. 127. id. p. 121. see municipium ecclesiasticum printed 1697. municipium eccl. p. 100. thornd . prim . ch. gov . p. 89. ans . to several capt. qu. p. 36. id. p. 25. hill's cath. bal. p. 99. id. p. 122 ▪ bramhal vindic. ord. p. 77. falkner christian loyalty p. 316. id. 318. thornd . rt. of the church . p. 238. vid. cath. bal. 110. 111. and p. 20. oath of alleg. falkner christ . loyal . p. 326. id. p. 329. id. p. 322. pref. to vind. ch. and state of scot. long 's char. of sep. p. 36. letter about regul . press . p. 45. tillotson's letter to my ld. russel in newgate july , 20. 1683. dr. pellings good old way p. 115. buchanan , gilby , goodman . de jure regni . id. serm. 30. jan. 78. p. 13 , 14. id. p. 9. vind. ans . to the kgs. papers . p. 89. faith and practice of ch. eng. man. cap. 6. apologet vind. ch. eng. p. 37. id. p. 39. ans . to several capt. quer. p. 12. id. p. 16. reflect . on hist . part of ch. gov. pt . 5. p. 96. blackhalls serm. p. 6. id. ibid. id. p. 5. vind. pr. ch. p. 151. the protestant religion vindicated from the charge of singularity and novelty in a sermon preached before the king at whitehall by dr. tillotson ▪ april . 2 ▪ 1680. apologet. vind. p. 20 id. p. 45. id. p. 46. id. p. 47. id. 47. ibid. id. p. 55. sanderson's case of the liturgy p. 190. vind. def. of d. st. p. 5. sherl . resol . of some cases . def. of dr. stil . p. 235. def. of still . p. 63. ans . to protest . recon . p. 332. mischief of separ . p. 56. sherl . disc . of nat. vn . and communion &c. p. 41. lowth's catechism . sherl . dis . of nat. un . and com . of cath. ch. p. 28. vind of prot. prin. p. 34. long 's char. of a sep . p. 90. preface to vind. ch. e. from sch. apolog. vind. &c. p. 93. vind def. p. 401. & 415. ans . to prot. rec. p. 192. vind. def. p. 389. sher. ans . to anonym . vind. def. p. 60 ▪ sherl . vind p. 111. id. ibid. ans . to pro. reconciler p. 419. long 's char. sep. p. 13. hellier's treatise of schis . p. 55. jo. 15. 4. st. cyp. de vnit . eccl. id. p. 57. id. p. 58. thorndike's rt. of the ch. p. 120. id. disc . of forbearance . p. 27. sherl . vind . p. 109. 1 cor. 10. 17. id. p. 110. sherlock's serm. nov. 4. 1688. p. 22. ans . to prot. reconciler p. 153. long 's answer to hale p. 84. notes for div a42125-e22490 fol. ● quarto ▪ 8vo . the dangerous schismatick clearly detected and fully confuted for the saving of a distracted nation from that which would destroy christian love and unity : occasioned by a resolver of three cases about church-communion / by richard baxter ... baxter, richard, 1615-1691. 1683 approx. 181 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 31 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-08 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a26909 wing b1237 estc r22896 12310514 ocm 12310514 59353 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a26909) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 59353) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 200:16) the dangerous schismatick clearly detected and fully confuted for the saving of a distracted nation from that which would destroy christian love and unity : occasioned by a resolver of three cases about church-communion / by richard baxter ... baxter, richard, 1615-1691. [4], 58 p. printed for thomas parkhurst ..., london : 1683. "the dangerous schismatick" also appears as the first part of the author's schism detected in both extreams, and in his catholick communion defended against both extreams (wing b1206, at reel 166:8). reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. owen, john, 1616-1683. schism -early works to 1800. christian union -early works to 1800. church -catholicity. 2004-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-06 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-06 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the dangerous schismatick clearly detected , and fully confuted ; for the saving of a distracted nation from that which would destroy christian love and unity . occasioned by a resolver of three cases about church-communion . by richard baxter a catholique christian , who is against confining christian love and communion to any sect how great soever . mark 16. 16. he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved . john 13. 35. by this shall all men know you are my disciples , if ye have love one to another . 1 john 4. 16. he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in god , and he in him . rom. 14. 1. 17 , 18. him that is weak in the faith receive ye , but not to doubtful disputations : for the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost : for he that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable to god , and approved of men. london , printed for thomas parkhurst at the bible and three crowns at the lower end of cheapside near mercers-chappel , 1683. the english schismatick , detected and confuted : occasioned by a resolver of cases about church communion . chap. i. saith the resolver , § . 1. the church is a body or society of men separated from the rest of the world , and united to god and to themselves by a divine covenant . a. he saith this is the plainest description he can give : that is not the fault of his auditors or readers . 1. as to the genus , a community of equals without rulers is a body : but i suppose he meaneth not such . 2. is it enough that it be of men ? sure now they should be christians ? 3. many are separated from the rest of the world , secundum quid , that are no christians ; some in one respect and some in another , and none in all respects . 4. vnited to god , is an ambiguous word , no creature is vnited to him perfectly so as to be thereby what he is , god , in the created nature . only christ is united to him hypostatically in his created nature . all are so far united to him in natural being , as that in him they live and move and have their being : and the nature of man is one sort of his image : all things are united to him as effects to their constant efficient . the church should not be defined without any mention of christ : the churches union with god is by christ. 5. christ himself as head is an essential part of the church , and should not be left out of a definition , thô the meer body may in common speech be called the church , as the people may be called a kingdom . 6. will any divine covenant serve ? or must it not be only the baptismal covenant ? 7. is it called divine only as made by god , or as commanded by god and made by man , or as mutual ? certainly gods law and offered or conditional promise is most frequently called his covenant in scripture ; and this uniteth not men to god , till they consent and covenant with him . their own covenant act is necessary hereto : and that is a divine covenant , only as commanded , and accepted and done by gods assisting grace . 8. the form of a church is relative , and the terminus is essential to a relation . it is no definition that hath not the end of the association : therefore this is none at all ; and so the beginning tells us what to expect . this description hath nothing in it but what may agree to divers forms of society , and so hath not the form of a church : and if he intended not a definition , but a loose description , i would a defining doctor had had the chair , during this controversie . let us try this description upon a mahometan kingdom , army , or navy , or suppose them meer deists . 1. such a kingdom , army , or navy may be a society . 2. of men. 3. separated from the rest of the world secundum quid & ad hoc ( and none are separated from it simpliciter & ad omnia : e. g. no man is separated from the common humanity ; no deist from any but atheists , and no christian in believing a god and the law of nature and nations . ) 4. they are vnited to god so far as owning a god and worshipping him amounts to , besides the union of the creature with the creator in whom he liveth , &c. and no unregenerate ungodly christian is united to him savingly . 5. they are united among themselves . 6. this is by a covenant : 7. and by a covenant divine , as to command , approbation and object . it is god that they covenant to own and obey : the common profession of the mahometans , is , there is one god , and mahomet is his prophet . it is divine in tantum as commanded . for god commandeth all men to own him ; to believe that godis , and that he is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him : and god so far approveth it : st. james saith , ( thou dost well ) to him that believeth there is a god , much more that is professedly devoted to him . let us by this examine the jewish church : jews now may be 1. a body , 2. of men , 3. separated from the rest of the world , even in religion and church pretensions . 4. united to god as creatures , as men , as the corporal seed of abraham , and as professing belief , love and obedience to god , as their god. 5. strictly united among themselves : 6. by a covenant , 7. which god once commanded , and still approveth so far as they own god. let us consider whether this description take not in , those in every nation that fear god and work righteousness , that never heard of christ , ( being thus combined . ) and whether the kingdom of god , be not larger than his church : joyn the head and tail of this mans book together , and by the head ( the description ) for ought i see , jews , mahometans , if not almost all heathens , are the church : but at the end , i think none on earth is the church : at least none that separate from a pair of organs , or an ignorant curate , nor can any man know who . page 2. § . 2. he explaineth his word [ body ] as opposed to a confused multitude . a. but a community of equals , that have no governours , may have order , and 〈◊〉 s no confused multitude . and he himself after pleads over much for a●ecessi●●v of rulers . p. 3. § . 3. and in many places , his confusion and grand errour is repeated , that the christian church is but one : p. 7. we know no church but what all christians are members of by baptisme , which is the vniversal church : p. 8. there is but one church , of which all christians are members , as there is but one covenant ; p. 19. if there be but one church and one communion , of which all true christians are members , &c. p. 23. i am no otherwise a member of any particular church , than i am of the vniversal : p. 40. it 's a schismatical notion of membership that divides the christian church into distinct memberships , and therefore into the distinct bodyes : and p. 19. and often he saith , those churches which are not members of each other , are separate churches and schismaticks . a. i had hoped that no man but mr. cheny had talkt at this rate . i. it 's agreed on , that there is but one universal church : the contrary is a contradiction . 2. it is agreed , that there is no lawful particular church which is not a part of the universal . 3. that whoever hath just union and communion with a true particular church , hath union and communion with the universal : 4. that all men in their worship of god , should accordingly perform it ( and do all that they do ) as men in that relation to the universal church : none of this is controverted . ii. but i had hoped never to have heard any but seekers say , that there are not many lawful particular churches , distinct from the whole and from one another , though not disjunct in the common essentials . for the proof of the contrary , 1. i begin with that which i expect should be most powerful ; the mans own after-confessions , to which he is oft brought . pag. 8. distance of place and the necessities and conveniences of worship and discipline , has divided the church into several parts and members , and particular churches , &c. so pag. 14. pag. 19. all christian churches ought to be members of one . more fully p. 20 , 21. this is ad hominem , yea and nay is his resolution . 2. but i 'le bring other arguments that prevail more with me . the sacred scriptures oft tell us of many churches , therefore there are many . act. 9. 31. the churches had rest ; and 15. 4. confirming the churches ; 16. 5. so were the churches established in the faith ; rom. 16. 4. all the churches of the gentiles : so ver . 16. 1 cor. 7. 17. so ordain i in all churches ; 11. 16. neither the churches of god ( have such custom ; ) 14. 33. as in all the churches of the saints ; 34. let your women keep silence in the churches . so 16. 1. 19. & 2 cor. 8. 1. the grace of god bestowed on the churches of macedonia : 18. whose praise is in the gospel through all the churches . so 19. 23 , 24. and 11. 8. 28. the care of all the churches ; 12. 13. inferior to the other churches . gal. 1. 2 , 22. 1 thes. 2. 14. 2 thes. 1. 4. rev. 1. 4. to the seven churches , ver . 11. 20. angels and candlesticks of the seven churches . and 2. 7 , 11 , 17 , 29. and 3. 6 , 13 , 22 , 23. and 22. 16. his concordance might have shew'd him all these in order , phil. 4. 15. no church communicated with me ( concerning giving and receiving ) but ye only . the dispute now must be , whether the apostles or this resolver be to be believed : they say , there are many churches , parts of one ; he saith , there is but one , and it 's schismatical to divide it into distinct memberships or bodyes , &c. it 's no schisme here to say , i am for paul and the holy scripture : let who will believe the contradictor . 3. my next argument is this : where there are many political societies , consisting of christian pastors and people , professedly associated for the ordinary exercise of those relations as such , in holy communion , in christian doctrine , worship , order and conversation , for edification in true faith , hope , love and obedience , and the glorifying of god therein . there are many distinct true churches , parts of the church universal ; but on earth there are many such societyes , &c. ergo , &c. either the controversie is de re or de nomine ( for we called separatists use to separate these . ) 1. if de re ; let the existence of the thing defined be tryed by scripture , reason and common experience : 2. if de nomine ; forma quae dat esse dat nomen : here is the true specifick form which is found in many single churches , ergo the name of such single ( or individual ) churches is due to them . 4. again ad hominem , from the consequences : 1. if there be not many single churches in the universal , then there are not many patriarchal , national , provincial , metropolitical , diocesan , or parochial churches : for non entium non datur numerus : many nothings is a contradiction . multae sunt ergo sunt ; ab est tertij adjecti ad est secundi valet argumentum . but if there be not many , then 1. all the parish churches in england being but one , and not many , a patron can have right to present to no one as a church , more than to another . 2. then the parson , vicar or curate is no more the parson of one church than of another ; nor bound to no more care and duty ; for there is but one . 3. then no one is bound to go to one parish church more than another ; for there is but one . 4. then the temple and tithes belong no more to one than another . 5. then no bishop is the proper bishop of one diocesan church , more than of another . 6. then all the revenues of the bishop of london , are no more appropriate to one church than to another . 7. then you owe no more obedience to the bishops of one diocesan church than another : 8. then you make the king no more head or governour of the church of england , than of another . 9. then a diocesan oweth no reverence to a metropolitane church ( if there be none such . ) 10. then many churches cannot have communion nor send bishops to councils ; ( if there be not many . ) 11. and the charge of separation from a church that is no church , is a contradiction . 5. i adde , from parity of reaon , if many distinct subordinate societies may make one civil body politick , so they may one universal church : but the antecedent is undoubted . if it be learnedly said with mr. cheny , that one whole cannot be part of another whole ; one may attain the perfection by that time he hath worn the breeches but a few years , to know that a whole family may be part of a whole village , and a whole vicinage be part of a whole city , and a whole colledge be part of a whole university ; and a whole city part of a whole kingdom ; and a whole kingdom part of the whole earth . and if it be objected , that the names of the whole and parts are here divers ; but a church and a church are the same name . i answer , at the same age one may learn that the same name proveth not the sameness of the things named ; and that ex penuria nominum the genus and species , the totum and parts have oft equivocally the same name , with the addition of just notes of distinction . sometimes an academy of many schools is called schola , and so are the single schools therein : the city of london is a society ; and so are the societies of merchant-taylors , drapers , mercers , &c. therein . § . 4. but these churches must be members of one another , or they are schismaticks . a. 1. how can that be , if they be all but one . 2. this is also above or below the ferula age . they are no members of one another , but all members of the whole : yet how oft have we this with the sting of schisme ( as damning as murder or adultery ) in the tail of it . the hand is not a member or part of the foot , or the foot of the hand , or the liver a member of the lungs , &c. but each one of the man : if ever i were a schoolmaster again , i would perswade my boyes , that a is not a member of b , nor b of c , &c. but each of the alphabet ; and that one leaf of their book is not a member of another , but both of the book ; and if they were ripe for the university , i would perswade them that exter colledge is not a member of corpus christi , nor that of lincoln , &c. but all of the universitie of oxford . and i think that bristol is not a member of exeter or gloucester , &c. but all of england ; and that the company of stationers are not part of the society of merchants or drapers , &c. but all of london . what a priviledg is it , that a man may believe this about any such thing without schisme and damnation ! and how dreadful to fall into such church-mens hands that in their case make it schisme , separation and damnation . but there is a remedy . § . 5. but he hath reason for what he saith : p. 3 , 4. [ indeed it is extreamly absurd and unreasonable , to say , that the christian church , which is built on the same foundation , &c. who enjoy all priviledges in common , should be divided into 〈◊〉 distinct and separate bodies , thô of the sa●e kind and nature , as peter , james and iohn are distinct persons — it 's absurd to say , that where every thing is common there is not one community . ans. let us not swallow this without chewing : 1. whether all be extreamly absurd and unreasonable which such doctors call so ; i am grown to doubt as much as whether all be schism which schismaticks call so : ipse dixit is no proof . 2. what the meaning of this great , decantate word [ separate ] is , must anon be enquired : but , may not churches be distinct and not culpably separate ? he confesseth afterwards both local distinction and separation . 3. how far are the vniversal church and particular churches distinct ? as whole and parts ? must the world at last learn that whole and parts are not distinct ? if you take if for absurd to distinguish a man from a body , or from a liver , hand or foot , dissenters do not ; nor to distinguish a colledge from an university , a house from a street , a street from a city , &c. but how are the particular churches distinguished one from another ? reader , so constantly do such men fight with themselves , that it 's meet to ask , whether they that thus say there are not many distinct churches , do not assert a far wider difference between many , than those they dissent from . we affirm that there are many , and that they differ not in specie , but numero , as colledges , cities do among themselves ; but these men , after all this , hold not only a numerical , but a specifick difference , even as parochial , diocesan , provincial , patriarchal , national ; at least presbyters and diocesans differing ordine vel specie with them , the church denominated from them must do so too . § 6. but he confirms it . [ peter , james and john , thô they partake of the same common nature , yet each of them have a distinct essence and subsistence of their own , and this makes them distinct persons ; but whether the very nature and essence of a body or society consists in having all things common , there can be but one body . ans. i hope it s no culpable separation to distinguish things as differing specie & numero ; and this is the doctors meaning , if his words are significant : and the common way of expressing it would have been , [ peter and john differ numerically but not in specie ; but two churches differ neither specie nor numero . ] and 1. reader , whereas he said before , that the church is not divided into distinct bodies , as james and john , &c. ] did you think till you , that james and john , and the doctor , and the several bishops had not been distinct parts of the church in their distinct natural bodies ? 2. and why may there not be distinct politick bodies , or compound in one whole as well as natural ? certainly , all things corporeal save attomes are compounds : a muscle , a hand , a foot , parts similar and dissimilar in man are all compounded of lesser parts . if many students may make one colledge , why may not many colledges make one university ? it 's strange if a doctor deny this . 3. but let us consider of his reason , and enquire 1. whether the church have all things common . 2. whether the very essence of it consist in this . i. it is granted that the whole essence of the genus and species is found in every individual of that species , natural or politick ; but did we ever hear , till mr. cheny and this doctor said it , that politick bodies differ not numero as well as natural ? the kingdom of england and of france are two ; the church of rome and constantinople long strove which should be uppermost , but who ever said that they were not two ? ii. have they all things common ? dissenters would have excepted wives and husbands , ( thô the canons called apostolical do not ; ) why should the essence of a church lie in this , and not the essence of a city or kingdom ? tories in ireland would have all common ; merchants and tradesmen , knights , lords and princes here would not . but it 's no schism here also to distinguish simpliciter & secundum quid , propriety and the use of propriety : there is no community without propriety : men have first a propriety in themselves , their members , their food , the acquests of their labours , their wives and children , and goods . and they consent to community to preserve this propriety , because every man loveth himself : and yet they must use their propriety , ( even of life ) for common good , because all are better than one : but if they had no propriety they could not so use it for the common-wealth . and i never conformed to the doctrine that denyeth propriety in church members and particular churches , and thought all simply common . i 'le tell you what particular churches have to individuate them , not common to all . 1. they consist of individual natural persons , many of which as much differ from many other persons , ( those in england from those in spain ) as one man doth from another . 2. their graces and gifts are numerically distinct ( faith , hope , love , &c. ) from those of other churches thô ejusdem speciei . 3. england and france , london and oxford , have churches of different place and scit●●ti●● 4. but the formal individuating difference is their nearest relation to their several pastors ; as several kingdoms , cities , schools are n●merically distinct by their distinct kings , maiors , school-masters , so are several churches ●jusdem speci●i . 1. thess. 5. 12 , 13. know those that are among you and over you in the lord , and esteem them highly in love for their works sake . as every mans wife , children and servants must be used for the common good , and yet are not common , one mans wife and children are not anothers ; so the bishop of london , of oxford &c. must govern his church for the good of the universal ; but he is not the bishop of gloucester , norwich , paris , rome . these are differences enow to constitute a numerical difference of churches : paul distinguisheth the bishops of philippi , ephesus , &c. from others . do you yet see no priviledges that one hath proper , and not common to all ? none that make a difference in specie , but both numerical and gradual ▪ 1. all churches have not bishop jewel , bishop andrews , doctor stillingfleet , doctor sherlock to be their teachers : all churches be not taught all that 's in this resolver . 2. all churches have not men of the same soundness nor excellency of parts : it was once taken for lawful to account them specially worthy of double honour who laboured in the word and doctrine , and to esteem men for their works sake . paul saith of timothy , i have no man like minded . if those that heard not a sermon in many years differed not from your congregation , why do you preach ? i am reproached in print for telling the world this notorious truth ; that i lived till ten years old , where four men , four years hired successively were readers and school-masters ; two preached ( as it was called ) once a month , the other two never : two drank themselves to beggery . after i lived where many parishes about us had no preachers : the parish that i lived in , had a church with a vicar that never preached , and a chappel with a parson eighty years old , that had two livings twenty miles distant , and never preacht : his son a reader and stage-player was sometime his curate : his grand-son , my school-master , his curate next that , never preacht in his life , but drunk himself to beggery . one year a taylor read the scripture , and the old man ( the best of them all ) said the common-prayer without book ( for want of sight . ) the next year a poor thresher read the scripture . after that a neighbours son ( my master ) was curate , who never preacht but once , and that when he was drunk , ( in my hearing ) on mat. 25. come ye blessed , and go ye cursed ; ] the saddest sermon that ever i heard . these things were no rarities : now my assertion is , that the church that had such as austin , chrysostome , jewel , andrews , and such worthy men as london now hath many , had priviledges distinct from these , ( and many the like ) that i was in . if you say that every bishop and preacher is as much the bishop and preacher to all other single churches , as to that which is his title ; then 1. he must be condemned for not teaching them all . 2. then he may claim maintenance from them all . 3. then he may intrude into any mans charge . 4. then no church is unchurcht for want of a bishop , for any one bishop is bishop to every church in the world ; and so ubi episcopus ibi ecclesia , signifieth but that church and bishop are on the same earth ; and ecclesia est plebs episcopo adunata may be verified if there be but one in the world. 5. and so mr. dodwell and such are self-confuted before you are aware : geneva , holland , and all presbyterians are true churches , for they have all bishops ; e. g. the bishop of london is bishop to them all : for if one man be no more a member of one single church than of another , and so no more a subject to one bishop than to another , then one bishop is no more pastor of one church than of another . 7. and how can you magnifie the church of england for a wise , learned , pious clergy above other churches , if all priviledges be common , and they have no proper pastors of their own . 8. do you think that the church , e. g. of hippo , that was in austins dayes , was the same numerical single church with that which is there now , ( were there any ) or with the diocesan church of london ? if not , then at least distance of time , and change of persons maketh divers particular churches ; and it 's no more against the unity of the church universal to have divers particular churches in it in the same age , than in divers ages . in short , diversity of matter and form maketh a numerical diversity ( as of natural , so ) of politick bodies of the same species : but the churches of ephesus , smyrna , thyatira , philadelphia , &c. were of divers matter and form numerically ; ergo they were divers political churches . sure god doth not commend laodicea for philadelphia's church virtues , nor condemn the church of philadelphia for the other churches sins . and if the angels be bishops , why are some bishops praised as the bishops of such churches , and the bishops of other churches threatned . but i confess this is a ready way to end the controversies between the bishops of several churches which snall be greatest , if they be all but one . but i hope that when the bishop of rome and his church was corrupted , it is not true that every bishop and church fell with him , ( or with any that hath turned to mahumetanism . ) to be no longer on this , ( which i thought no prelatist would ever have put me on ) if these men speak not notoriously against scripture , against the constant language of canons and fathers , historians and lawyers , and all antiquity , and all christian countreys and divines , ( yea , even those that at trent would have had only the pope to be of immediate divine right ) then i know not any thing by reading . and if poor nonconformists must be put to defend themselves against such singularities , and be schismaticks unless they will differ from all the christian world of all ages , there is no remedy . § . 7. but p. 5 , 6. he tell us , [ that a church is made by a divine covenant-god only can constitute a church : such persons , if there be any so absurd , are not worth disputing with , who dare affirm the church to be an humane creature , or the invention of men . — and no church can depend on humane contracts ; for then a church would be a humane creature and constitution , whereas a church can be founded only on a divine covenant — 1. who would think but this man were a nonconformist , that talks so like them ( e. g. amesius in medul . theol. ) against humane church forms ? but what then will bishop bilson , and almost all other bishops and christians be thought of , who affirm patriarchal and metropolitical churches ( and many of the diocesane ) to be but humane constitutions and inventions . and if these be not worth the disputing with , it seems , that you differ from them more than separatists do : and then were not all these schismaticks ? and then , are not you a schismatick if you communicate with them ? yea , your mr. dodwel himself maketh diocesan churches to be a humane creature ; and a. bishop bromhall much pleadeth for mans power to make patriarchal churches ; and so do such others . 2. but is it true that humane contracts make not a church ? ans. not alone : but i think that all churches are made by mutual contracts , and humane is one part of that which is mutual . 1. as to the vniversal church , 1. god as legislator and donor , instituteth the species of covenanting by baptism , and therein he commandeth mans consent to his offered covenant ; and conditionally promiseth to be our god : but , conditionale nihil ponit in esse : this much maketh no christian , nor church . to command a man to be a christian , and conditionally to promise him life if he will be one , proveth him not to be one ; else all were christians that reject an offered christ. 2. but when man consenteth and covenanteth with god , then gods conditional gift becomes actual and efficacious , the man being a capable recipient , and not before : and in this it is the contract that is the fundamentum relationis ; but a single promise is not a mutual covenant or contract . so that it is no wiser divinity to say , gods covenant and not mans consent , covenant or contract with god , doth make christians , and the universal church ; than it is sober reason to say , that gods institution of marriage or magistracie only doth make the relation of husband and wife , without their covenanting consent , or doth make common-wealths , without the consent or covenant of sovereign and subjects , did this doctor think that voluntariness is not as necessary to the relation of christianity as to the relation of prince and subjects ; yea , or of husband and wife ? if he do , he is shamefully mistaken . baptism delivereth men possession of pardon , grace and right to glory ; and can men have this against their wills ? one would think by the doctrine and course of some men , that they could force men to pardon and salvation ! if i believed that their force could accomplish this , i would never call it persecution . if they can force men to be true christians , they may force them to be justifyed and saved ; and then they are very uncharitable if they do not : let them then cease preaching and disputing us to their opinion , but bring us all to heaven whether we will or not . yea the self-contradictor , playing fast and loose , confesseth p. 6. that no man at age can be admitted to baptism , till he profess his faith in christ , and voluntarily undertake the baptismal vow : and is not that humane covenanting ? yea , he knoweth that the liturgie maketh even neighbours or strangers , vow and covenant , both in the name of the child and for the child . and so necessary doth the episcopal church think humane covenanting , that without this no child must be baptized publickly though the parents would covenant , and that they can neither for love nor money ( for many poor men hire godfathers ) get any one ( much less three ) who examined , will seriously purpose to perform the covenant for the child 's holy education which they make ii. but is not humane covenanting a cause of single church relation as well as of universal ? i see no cause to doubt it ; and i am sure that the church for a thousand years ( before and since popery came in ) have declared him no bishop that comes in without consent of clergie and people ; which consent is their covenanting act . to make a single church , manifold consent goeth to the fundamentum relationis . 1. god commandeth single church officers , order and consent , and promiseth them his blessing where they are met : the lord and his angels are among them : no command is vain , and without a virtual promise . 2. to this a threefold humane consent is needful , ordinarily : 1. the persons called . 2. the ordainers ( when it may be had . ) 3. the peoples . he that formerly , from the apostles dayes , for a thousand years , should have said , that neither the covenanting , that is the consent of the pastor , or people , or ordainers , is necessary to the fundamentum of a single church relation or form , would have been taken for a wild-brain'd schismatick at least . § . 8. but saith this doctor ( and another of them ) [ p. 6. but the independent church covenant between pastor and people , is of a very different nature from this : vnless any man will say , that the voluntary contract and covenant which the independents exact from their members , and wherein they place a church state , be part of the baptismal vow ; if it be not , then they found the church upon a humane covenant ; for christ hath made but one covenant with mankind which is contained in the vow of baptism ; if it be , then no man is a christian but an independent . ans. alas for the church that is taught at this rate ! 1. i never saw what independents do in this case ; but i think none of them that are sober own any other sort of church but the universal , and single churches as members of it , and therefore require no contract but 1. to the covenant of baptism or christianity . 2. to the duties of their particular church-relation . 2. and nothing is here of necessity but manifested consent ( which is a real contract ) but a clearer or a darker , an explicite or implicite consent differ only ad melius esse . 3. is not god the author of magistracy , marriage , &c. and is it any violation of gods part , if rulers and people , husband and wife be covenanters by his command ? 4. is it any renuntiation of baptism to promise at ordination to obey the arch-bishop and bishop , and to take the oath of canonical obedience ? is it not still exacted ? are not the takers of it obliged ? are not covenants imposed on all that will be ministers in the act of uniformity ? are not multitudes kept out and cast out for not making these covenants ? quo reneam nodo , &c. how should one deal with such slippery men ? good mr. zachary cawdry that wrote to have all men to covenant submission to bishops and parish ministers , did not dream that it was any violation of baptism . 5. do not men owe duty to their pastors which they owe to no others ? if not , put them not on it : why are you angry with them for going from you ? why doth the canon suspend those that receive them to communion from another parish that hath no preacher ? why are we ruined for not covenanting as aforesaid ? if yea , then is it against baptism to promise to do our duty ? 6. but hath god commanded or instituted no covenant but baptism ? yes sure , the matrimonial at least ; and i think ordination is covenanting for the ministry : did not the apostle acts 14. 23. ordain elders in every church ? if you would have [ by suffrage ] left out of the translation , no sober man can doubt but it was by the peoples consent ; and was it without their consent that titus was to ordain elders in every city ? could any then come otherwise in ? did not all churches hold and practise this after , and was it none of gods institution ? if so , god requireth us not to take any of you for our bishops or pastors : who then requireth it ? what meaneth paul when he saith , they gave up themselves to the lord and to us , by the will of god. 7. can the wit of man imagine how it is possible without consent , for a man to be made the pastor of any flock ? who ever ordained a man against his will ? or for any man to have title against his will , to the proper oversight and pastoral care of any one pastor , or the priviledges of any church ? if any think they may be cramm'd and drencht with the sacrament , or that an unwilling man may have a sealed pardon and gift of salvation delivered him , he will make a new gospel . and how any particular pastor is bound to give that man the sacrament ordinarily , that consents not ordinarily to receive it of him , i know not . no man is a member of any city , or any company of free-men in the city , but by mutual consent ; and the oath of allegiance and supremacy to the king maketh not the oath of a citizen as such or of a member of a company as such , unlawful . 8. doth this doctor think that he ever yet proved to sober men , that the covenant aforesaid , of godfathers and godmothers , to make christians , and members of the universal church , is more ( or so much ) of gods institution , than the contract or consent between bishops or pastors and people to make a single political church ? 9. if it follow not , that no man is the kings subject that sweareth not to the city ; it will not follow , that none is a christian , but an independent , or church-consenter . 10. how are your parish or diocesan church members known to your selves or any others ? are all that dwell in the parish or diocess your church members ? then atheists , sadducees , hobbists , and all vicious men and thousands that never communicate are such : yea those that you call separatists . if it be every transient communicant , have you a proper pastoral care of every travellers soul that so communicates with you ? you after plead that his very ordinary communion maketh him not a member , if he be unwilling to be one . and is not his consent then necessary ? or if ordinary communion be the test ( how few then of great parishes are of the church ) yet that is because such communion signifieth their consent to your over-sight of them . § . 9. but it 's much to be approved which p. 5. and oft he saith , that to be taken into covenant with god , and to be received into the church is the very same thing , as to the universal church . by which all his gross schismatical accusations afterwards are confuted . no man then is out of the church that is not out of the baptismal covenant , either by not taking it , or by renouncing some essential part of it ? and when will he prove , that to take him , rather than dr. bates that was cast out , to be a teacher or pastor at dunstans , or to take this man and not another to be the lawful bishop or priest , and to obey him in every oath and ceremony , is an essential part of the baptismal covenant , or of christianity ? but such a rope of sand , as mr. dodwell and this man tye together , to bind men to their sect , will serve turn with some that know not who speaks truth , by any surer way than prejudice . § . 10. his doctrine of separation and gathering churches out of churches is anon to be considered : but whereas he addes , p. 7. [ these men convert christians from common christianity , and the communion of the vniversal church to independency . ] ans. my acquaintance with them is small , save by reading their books : and there are few men of any common denomination ( episcopal , or other ) that are not in many things disagreed . but i must in charity to them say , that as far as i can judge by their writings or speech , he palpably slandereth them ; and that none that are grave and sober among them do separate their churches from the common christianity or the universal church , any more than the company of stationers , ironmongers , &c. are separated from the city of london , or london from england , or trinity colledge from the university of cambridge or oxford . i never met with man , and i am confident never shall do , that doth not take his independent church to be part of the universal , and dependent as a part on the whole . if belying others stopt at words , the wrong were small : but when it 's made but the stairs to hatred and destroying , it 's his way to cure schism that is commonly painted with horns and cloven feet . if a man come from a countrey village and be made by covenant a citizen of london , how prove you that he renounceth king or kingdom ? but he saith , p. 9. those who wilfully separate from the corporation to which the charter was granted , forfeit their interest in the charter . ans. what reader doth this man presume upon that will not ask him , how he proveth 1. that gods law or charter to his church doth not require them to congregate in distinct single churches ( as london charter doth to erect several companies , and the universities several colledges ? ) 2. and that god hath not in his word given order or command for such single churches : but that the apostles and titus by fixing elders to their several churches and cities , separated from the universal church ? 3. and that their subordinate churches have not need of distinct subordinate consent and duty : and that our diocesan churches all separate from the universal ? did he think these things need no proof at all ? it may be he will say that the diocesan depend on the vniversal , but the presbyterian or independent do not . ● answer , dependance is either that of subjects on soveraign or magistrates for government , or that of a community of equals for communion . in the former respect they depend on none but christ as universal soveraign , nor on any foriegners for governments : in the latter , they depend on all true churches for communion : and doctor hammond and most diocesans hitherto have said that diocesan churches are thus far independent or national at most . and if any be for a forreign jurisdiction , in charity before they perswade england to it , they should procure them a dispensation from all the oaths , that have sworn all this kingdom against endeavouring any change of government , and against a foreign jurisdiction : for some fanaticks now dream that per is the mark of the beast , and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which is the number of his name , is nominal as well as numeral , and refers to ch-urch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( and ) s tate ] ( for as for them that find a mans name in them , i abhorr their exposition more . ) § . 11. p. 9. [ god ( saith he ) hath not made any covenant in particular with the church of geneva , france or england , &c. a. 1. god hath made one general law , for christians congregating with their fixed elders or bishops in particular churches all the world over : and his command is not without promise of being with them to the end of the world ; and that promise becometh a promise to every church so congregate . god hath not made distinct laws or promises to every christian : but the promise to justifie all believers justifieth each single person when he believeth . if the king should make one common law to command all his subjects that are freeholders to live in corporations or hundreds , described with their priviledges , those priviledges would be all theirs that are so incorporated : as one charter may priviledge every london company , diversified by subordinate agreements . 2. and that god who will have them thus incorporated and distributed into several single churches , doth covenant ( or promise ) according to their demerits to each . do i need to recite the peculiar promises and threats to the seven asian churches , rev. 2. and 3. which are covenants to them ? § . 12. next pag. 10. he will tell us what communion is , and in many words , it is to tell us that communion is nothing but vnion : i know that quoad notationem nominis , communion may signifie , vnion with others : but they that write politicks have hitherto distinguished vnion and communion , taking communion for actual commnication , or exercise of the duties of men in union ? but to speak cross to other writers on the same subjects and give no reason for it , and to confound vnion and communion , is one part of this edifying resolution . § . 13. pag. 11. [ our communion with the church consists in being members of the church , which we are made by baptism , ] ( saith he . ) then the baptized are still in communion with the church , till their baptism be nullified : and hath he proved us apostates ? § . 14. pag. 12. should any man who is no member of the church , nor owns himself to be so , intrude into the church and communicate in all holy offices , it 's no act of communion , &c. a. i thought communicating ordinarily in holy offices , had gone for an owning of communion : if it do not , would you would tell us how to know who are of your church . § . 15. p. 13. saith he ( church-communion does not consist in particular acts of communion , which can be performed among those who are present and neighbours , but in membership : now as a member is a member of the whole body ( not meerly of any part of it , &c. ) all the subjects of england who never saw nor converst with each other , are members of the same kingdom . ] a. 1. that word [ meerly ] hath more craft than justice or honesty : meerly signifieth only i suppose ; and if he would make his reader think that they that are for single church peculiar membership and consent , do take themselves to be [ meerly or only ] members of those single churches , and not of the universal , it is shameless injury . 2. will he ever draw men to conformity by making them believe , that because they owe common communion to all christians , therefore we owe no special duty to the bishops , priests , churches or neighbours where we are setled ? do the men of one colledge , school , corporation , owe no more duty to that than to all others ? do the free-holders of belford-shire choose knights for middlesex ; or the citizens of oxford choose officers in london ? these seem strange resolutions to us . 3. but doth he remember that [ if communion consist not in acts of communion to such , but in membership even with the distant , ] then he that is baptized , and no apostate , and performeth no other acts of communion to the bishops , parson or people where he liveth , than he is bound to perform to them a hundred or thousand miles off , is not separatist . methinks this favours separation too much . § . 16. pag. 14. when he denyed any divine covenant to make us members of particular churches distinguish't from the vniversal ( as all national , diocesan and parochial are , as parts from the whole ) he presently confteth all again , saying [ the exercise of church 〈◊〉 as to m●st of the particular duties and offices of it must be confined to a particular church and congregation ( for we cannot actually joyn in the communion of prayers and sacraments , &c. but with some particular church . ] a. oportuit fuisse memorem , — 1. reader , doth not this man here confess that there are particular churches ? 2. if these be not distinct from the whole , then each particular is the whole . 3. if the exercise must be in particular churches , must not men consent to their relations and duties ? is it a sin to promise duty ? 4. sure it is not meer place , but a mutual relation of pastors and people that distinguisheth these churches . the presbyterians preach't once in the same places that you do , and yet you take them not for the same church pastors . if one from york or cornwall come into your pulpit without consent , do people stand as much related to him as to you ? some men are of extraordinary sufficiency to resist and conquer the clearest evidence of truth . but he addes [ every act of communion thô performed to some particular church , is and must be an act of communion with the whole catholick church . ] a. and who denyeth this ? no sober independent or presbyterian that ever i met with . it 's a weighty truth . § . 17. p. 14. saith he [ praying , and hearing and receiving the lords supper together doth not make us more in communion with the church of england than with any other true and orthodox part of the church , thô in the remotest part of the world. ] a. i think that 's not true : with the remotest parts you have only catholick communion with the church universal : in england and london you have that and more ; even special subordinate communion with your own king , bishop and flock . 2. and hath not the church of england such communion in obedience to its own laws ; ( as the act of uniformity , ) convocation and canons , which you have not with all abroad ? do your bishops in convocation make canon laws for all the world ? do you swear canonical obedience as much to the bishop of paris , or ha●●nia , &c. as to your ordinary ? do the canons of all churches impose our liturgy , or ipso facto excommunicate all that affirm any thing in it , or our ceremonies or church government , to be against gods word ? sure this is a peculiar kind of communion . 3. if not , why are all the nonconformists cast out that offer to officiate and communicate on such terms as are common to all sound churches ? pag. 15. saith he [ there is nothing in all these acts of communion which does more peculiarly unite us to such a particular church than to the whole christian church . ] a. what , neither in these acts nor any other ! then we are no more bound to hear you , or maintain you as our pastor , than to hear and maintain the whole christian church . § 18. p. 20. saith he [ there is no other rule of catholick communion for private christians , but to communicatee in all religious offices and all acts of government and discipline with christians those with whom they li●e . a. 1. elsewhere you added [ sound and orthodox : ] else they that live with arians , socinians , papists ( in spain , france , italy , &c. ) are bound to communicate with them in all religious offices and obey them . 2. this concludeth , that where presbytery or independency is the way of the place where we live , all must thus communicate and obey . the king and custom then may make any way to become our duty . 3. if you tell us that it 's only with the sound and orthodox , you were as good say nothing , unless you tell us who must judge that , whether the people themselves , or who for them . 4. but if this be the only rule for private christians , what shall they do , e. g. in aethiopa , egypt , syria , and many other countreys where the churches are such as general councils and other churches judge hereticks or schismaticks ? and what shall they do , when at antioch , alexandria , constantinople , &c. one party is uppermost ( by the judgment of councils and prince ) one year , and another contrary party the next . and what shall they do where the prince equally tolerateth both , and it 's hard to know which is the more numerous ? as in zeno's and anastasius reign , &c. and what shall they do when many chnrches in one city are of divers tongues , as well as customs ? have the greeks , french and dutch in london no rule of catholick communion but communicating in all office ; with the english , and obeying all your bishops courts ? § . 19. p. 21. saith he [ distinct and particular churches which are in communion with each other , must have their distinct bounds and limits , as every member has it's natural and proper place , and situation in the body . ] a. why may not the greeks , dutch and french live in communion with the churches london though they live dispersedly among them ! in brandenburg , hassia , and many free cities , and belgia , where lutherans and calvinists ( as called ) live together , and own each other as brethren , why may not both be churches of christ ? § . 20. p. 21 , 22. a great deal more he hath of the like , making schismaticks at his pleasure . [ this is plain in the case of the presbyterian and independent churches and those other conventicles — they are churches in a church , — nothing can justifie the distinction of christians into several churches , but only such a distance of place as makes it necessary , &c. p. 22. distinct churches in the same place can never be under the same communion . a. these things are repeated so oft , and the word [ separate ] so deceitfully rolled over and over , that i will answer all together under his third case at the end. § . 21. p. 27. see how openly he recanteth most aforesaid : there is a sence indeed wherein we may be said to be members of one particular church considered as distinct from all other particular churches : but that principally consists in government and discipline . every christian is a member of the whole christian church , and in communion with it , but he is under the immediate instruction and government of his own bishop and presbyters , and is bound to personal communion with them ; and this constitutes a particular church , in which all acts of worship and all acts of discipline and government are under the direction and conduct of a particular bishop . ] a. omitting that he seemeth to make the parochial churches no churches , but parts of one , here he saith all that he seemed to write against , and that those that he reproacheth hold , allowing the difference of the extent of churches . and is it edifying to read such a discourse , that saith and unsaith by self-contradiction ? and he adjoyns 28. p. how by agreement patriarchal and national churches are made ! and is not agreement a humane contract ? chap. ii. of his first case . § . 1. page 31. his first case , whether communion with some church or other be a necessary duty incumbent on christians : ] and he thinks the resolution of this is as plain , as whether it be necessary for every man to be a christian : for every christian is baptized into the communion of the church . a. in this i know no christian adversary to him : but it being the vniversal church that he giveth his proof of necessary communion with , it 's odde to say , we must have communion with some church or other : as if there were more than one universal church . 2. but we grant more , that all that can well , should be also members of some single church . § . 2. p. 32. he saith [ external and actual communion is an essential duty of a church-member ( meaning a christian. ] a. 1. and yet before he denyed that communion lay essentially in this exercise , but only in vnion : yea and nay is his custom . 2. some few christians ( as those that live where such communion cannot be had without sin , &c. ) are not bound to it ; therefore it is not true that it is essential to universal church-membership . and i think sickness endeth not the essentials , that disableth men . 3. note reader , that by this mans doctrine we are all unchristened and damned if we do not gather into disallowed churches , if we be unjustly cast out of the allowed ones : for all must be church members that will be christians , and an unjust excommunication cannot disoblige us from christianity , nor bind us to consent to be damned . now read the 5th 6th 7th 8th , &c. canons of the church of england , which ipso facto excommunicate all that affirm any thing in their liturgy , articles , ceremonies or government sinful , and answer spalatensis arguments against excommunicating ipso facto , and prove all this just , and you may prove what you will just . but you see where he layeth the controversie : if any be excommunicated without sufficient cause , or by lay civilians to whom god never gave that power , or by such bishops or pastors as have no just authority for want of a true call or consent ; or if any unlawful thing be made necessary to communion , all such persons must by his own confessions hold church-communion whether these imposers will or not ; for all christians are bound to be of some church . § . 3. p. 33 , 34. he saith that [ none but publick prayers are the prayers of the church properly , and acts of communion , that is , such as are offered by the hands of men authorized and set apart for that purpose , &c. ] ans. who would have thought that we are more for the liturgy than he ? i undertake to prove , that all the responsal prayers , and all the litany prayers , in which the minister names but the matter to them , and the people make it a prayer by speaking the petitioning parts , are all the publick prayers of the church , and so are all the petitioning psalms spoke or sung by the people , and not only that which is offered by the priest : i do not think that he believeth what he carelesly saith here , himself . but the independents are stiffer for his first thesis ( of the necessity of church-communion ) than he is , his unfit words i pass by . chap. iii. of his second case . § . 1. the next question of occasional communion as distinct from fixed , he turns out of doors , as if there could be no such thing , and it 's very true as to the church universal ; but as to visible , actual communion with this or that particular church , it is not true . 1. a traveller of another country , who on his journey communicateth with every church where he passeth , is not a fixed member of that church : for , 1. the pastor or bishop hath not that peculiar charge of him as of fixed members . 2. he is not bound where he passeth to take such notice of the lives of communicants or pastors , and to admonish the offenders , and tell the church , as fixed members are . 3. he hath not the right in chooseing pastors or deacons as the fixed members have . 4. an itinerant bishop in transitu is not their fixed bishop ; ergo an iterant lay-man is not a fixed member . the same i may say of one that is a fixed member of another church in the same city , and cometh to that only to signifie universal communion , or neighbourly ; which , though he deny to be lawful , i shall further prove anon . and the same i may say of those that dwell where there is no fixed single church at all , for want of a pastor , but they congregate only when some strange minister passeth through the town . chap. iv. his third case . § . 1. page 48 , 49. he resolveth his third case : [ whether it be lawful to communicate with two distinct and separate churches ] negatively , and saith , [ it is contrary to all the principles of church communion , as any thing can possibly be ; it is to be contrary to our selves , it is communicating with schism : that the presbyterian and independent churches have made an actual separation from the church of england he hath evidently proved ; — and they are schismaticks , and to communicate with them is to partake in their schism ; and if schism be a great sin , and that which will damn us as soon as adultery and murther , then it must needs be a dangerous thing to communicate with schismaticks . and p. 42. there cannot be two distinct churches in one place , one for occasional , and another for constant communion , without schism . ] ans. to save those that are willing from the poyson of these schismatical doctrines , lapt up in confusion by men that abhor distinction , or understand not what they say ; i will first lay down that truth that he sights against , with convincing evidence , and then shew you the mischief of his false doctrine and application . § . 2. the confusion of these words [ church , communion , separation and schism ] which every one signifie divers things , is the chief means to blind and deceive his reader ; whether it do so by himself i know not . i. the word church signifieth sometime the universal church ; sometime a single organized church as part of it , and sometime humane combinations of such single churches ; and that into diocesan , classical , provincial , patriarchal , national , and papal . ii. the specification and nomination of churches is from the formal cause , and the proper government is that form : and the individuation is from matter and form , but principally from the form . iii. the union of pastor and flock in relation makes that which is a form aptitudinal ( as the soul to the body ) to be the form in act ( as the union of soul and body ) and gods command and consent with the consent of the necessary relate and correlate cause that union . iv. union is in order to communion , which is primary by the exercise of the formal powers on the matter , and secondary by the action of all the parts according to their several capacities and offices . v. the union of the church is of divers degrees . 1. the formal union of the head and body , which maketh it essentially the [ christian church . ] 2. the vnion of the parts among themselves as christian , which maketh them a body capable of union with the head. 3. the union of the parts as unequal organized , the official with the rest , which maketh it an organized body , fit for its special use and welfare . 4. union in integrity of parts , which maketh it an intire body . 5. union in due temperament and qualities , which maketh it a healthful body . 6. unity in commou accidents , which make it a comely beautiful body joined with the rest . but , 7. union in mutable accidents is unnecessary and impossible . vi. these several degrees of union are found in bodies natural and politick . 1. the union of soul and body makes a man , and an embryo before it be organized . 2. the union of the body maketh it capable of the souls further operation . 3. the union of the organical , chief parts , ( as heart , lungs , &c. ) to the rest make it a true humane body compleated to the nutriment and action of life . 4. that it have hands and fingers , feet and toes , and all integral parts , makes it an intire body . 5. the due site , temperament and qualities of each part make it a sound body . 6. comely colour , hair , action , going , speech , &c. make it a comely body . 7. to have all parts of equal quantity and office , would make it uncomely : and to have the same hair , colour , &c. is unnecessary at all . 1. the union of king and subjects as such makes a kingdom . 2. that the people be agreed ; for one conjunct interest and government maketh them a community capable of politie or government . 3. that there be judges , maiors and justices , and subordinate cities or societies , maketh it an organized body , in which kingly government may be exercised to its end , the common good . 4. that no profitable part be wanting , ( judge , justice , sheriff , &c. ) maketh it an entire kingdom . 5. that all know their place , and be duly qualified with wisdom , love , justice , conscience , obedience to god first , to the sovereign power next , to officers next , &c. maketh it a sound and safe kingdom . 6. that it be well situate , fertile , rich , eminent in learning , skill , &c. maketh it an adorned beautiful kingdom . 7. that all be equal in power and wealth is destructive ; and that all be of one age , complexion , calling , temper , degree of knowledge , &c. is impossible : and that all have the same language , cloathing , utensils , &c. is needless at least . vii . jesus christ is the only universal soveraign of the church , both ▪ of vital influence and government ; nor hath he set up any under him , either monarchical , aristocratical , democratical , or mixt , pope , council , or diffused clergy , that hath the power of legislation and judgment as governing the whole chorch ; but only officers that per partes govern it among them , each in his province , as justices do the kingdom , and kings and states the world ; nor is any capable of more . viii . to set up any universal legislators and judge , ( pope or council ) is to set up an usurper of christs prerogative , called by many a vice-christ or an antichrist ; and as bad as making one man or senate the soveraign of all the earth ; and to attempt the setting up of such or any forreign jurisdiction in this land , is to endeavour to perjure the whole kingdom that is sworn against it in the oath of supremacy , and sworn never to endeavour any alteration of government in church or state in the corporation oath , the vestry oath , the militia oath , the oxford oath , with the uniformity covenants : and if any should endeavour to introduce such a forreign jurisdiction who themselves have had a hand in driving all the kingdom to all these oaths against it , i doubt whether all the powers of hell can devise a much greater crime against clergy , cities , and all the land. good reason therefore had doctor isaac barrow to write against it as he hath done , and to confute mr. thorndike , and all such as of late go that pernicious way , by the pretence of church union and communion . as if one universal soveraign and legislator and judge , were not enough to unite christs kingdom , or man could mend his universal laws , and could not stay for his final judgment ; and churches and kingdomes might not till then be ruled without one humane universal soveraign by necessary and voluntary agreement among themselves . xi . to be a true believer or christian , ( or the infant seed of such ) devoted to god the father , son , and holy ghost , according to the sense of the baptismal covenant , uniteth each member first to christ himself directly , and consequently to his body or church ; and this coram deo , as soon as it is done by heart consent ; and coram ecclesia , regularly , as soon as he is invested by baptism ; which baptism , when it may be had so , is regularly to be administred by none but an authorized minister or deacon ; but if through necessity or mistake it be done by a lay-man , the ancient christians took it not for a nullity , much less if the baptizer was taken for a minister by mistake , being in his place ; and if no baptism can be had , open covenanting is vallid . x. the papists ( and their truckling agents here ) have here hampered themselves in a fatal contradiction : to make themselves masters of the world , they would perswade us , that sacraments only regenerate and sanctifie , and that god saveth none ( by any known way and grant ) but by his covenant sealed by the sacraments ; and that he authorizeth none to administer this covenant but prelates and their priests , and none can validly have it from other hands : and so if you will but abate them the proof of many things that stand in the way , heaven and hell , salvation and damnation are at the will and mercy of such prelates and priests . but unhappily they cannot retrieve their old opinion , but maintain that lay-men and women may baptize in necessity validly , and that baptismputs one into a state of salvation . xi . as he that swears and keeps his allegiance to the king is a subject and member of the kingdom , though he be no member of any corporation ; so , though he disown a thousand fellow subjects ; yea , though he deny the authority of constable , justice , judge ; so he that is devoted to christ truly in the baptismal covenant , is a christian , and a member of the universal church , though he were of no particular church , or did disown a thousand members , or any particular officer of the church . xii . all faults or crimes are not treason : a man that breaketh any law , is in that measure culpable or punishable : but every breach of law , or wrong to fellow subjects or justices , as it is not treason , so it doth not prove a man no subject ; though some may be so great as to deserve death and make him intolerable : and so it is in the case of our subjection in the church to christ. xiii . to own christs instituted species of church officers is needful to the just order , safety and edification of the church ( as to own the courts of judicature , justices , &c. in the kingdom ) but to own this or that numerical officer as truly commissioned , is needful only to the right administration of his own province . xiv . as christ did his own work of universal legislation by himself and his spirit eminently in the apostles and evangelists , who have recorded all in scripture , so he settled churches to continue to the end associated for personal communion in his holy doctrine , worship , order and conversation with authorized ministers , subordinate to his administration in his prophetical , priestly , kingly and friendly relations . and thô these may not always or often meet in the same place , their neighbourhood maketh them capable of personal presential communion , as men that may know and admonish each other and meet by turns , and in presence manage their concerns ; which differenceth single churches of the lowest order from associated churches of men , that have communion only by others at distance . xv. as logicians say of other relations , the matter must be capable of the end , or it is not capable of the name and form ; so is it here : e. g. it is no ship that is made of meer sponge or paper , or that is no bigger than a spoon ; it is no spoon that is as big as a ship : one house is not a village , nor one village a city , nor a city a meer house . so twenty or an hundred or a thousand p●rishes associate , cannot be a single church of the first or lowest order , being not capable of mutual knowledge , converse or personal present communion : nor are two or three lay-men capable to be such a church , for want of due matter . but supposing them capable , thô a full and rich church have advantage for honour and strength , yet a small and poor one is ejusdem ordinis as truely a church ; and so is their pastor , as hierom saith of rome and eugubium so alexandria and maju●an &c. gregory neocaesar was equally bishop of nineteen at first , as after of all save nineteen in the city . xvi . if the apostles have successours in their care and superiority over many churches , it will prove that there should yet be men of eminent worth to take care of many churches , and to instruct and admonish the younger ministers : but it will neither prove 1. that they succeed the apostles in the extraordinary parts of their office. 2. nor that they have any forcing power by the sword. 3. nor that one church hath power over others by divine right ; for the apostles fixed not their power to any particular churches , but were general visitors or overseers of many : yet if the same man who is fixed in a particular church , have also the visiting admonishing oversight of many as far as was an ordinary part of the apostles office , and be called an archbishop , i know no reason to be against him . xvii . there be essential and integral acts of the sacred ministry instituted by christ : these none may take the power of from any ministers , nor alter the species or integrity of the offce , by setting up any such superious as shall deprive them of that which christ hath instituted , or arrogating the like uncalled . but as in worship , so in order and church government , there are undetermined accidents : as to choose the time and place of synods , to preside and moderate and such like : and these the churches by agreement , or the magistrate may assign to some above the rest : and if the magistrate affix baronies , honours , revenues , or his own due civil forcing power , and make the same men magistrates and ministers , whether we think it prudent and well done or not , we must honour and obey them . xviii . some call these humane accidental orders , forms of church government , and affirm ( as bishop reignolds did , and dr. stillingfleet in his irenicon and many excellent men by him cited ) that no form of church government is of divine command . which is true of all this second sort of government which is but accidental aud humane ; but not at all of the first sort which is divine and essential to christ himself first , and to pastors as such by his appointment ; so that the essential government of the universal church , by christ , and of each particular church by pastors specified by him ( if not of supervisors of many as succeeding apostles and evangelists in their ordinary work ) are of unalterable divine right . but the humane forms are alterable : such i account 1. the presidency and moderatorship and accidental government of one bishop in a single church over the other presbyters , deacons , &c. 2. the accidental government of a diocesan as an archbishop over these lowest bishops and churches . 3. and the superiority of metropolitans and patriarchs over them , so it be but in such accidentals and within the same empire , not imposing a forreign jurisdiction . these tota specie differ from the divine offices . xix . all these single church being parts of the universal are less noble than the whole , and are to do all that they do as members in union with the whole , and to do all as acts of communion with them . xx. the general precepts of doing all to edification , concord , peace , order , &c. oblige all the churches to hold such correspondencies as are needful to these ends : and synods are one special means , which should be used as far and oft as the ends require : and if national metropolitans and patriarchs order such synods , i am not one that will disobey them . but if on these pretences any would make synods more necessary than they are , and use them as governours , by legislation and judgement over the particular bishops by the use of the church keyes , and will affixe to them or metropolitans , besides an agreeing power and the said government in accidentals , a proper church government by making and unmaking ministers or christians , excommunicating and absolving as rulers by the said keyes , it may be a duty to disown such usurpations . as the king would disown an assembly of princes any where met that would claim a proper government of him and his kingdom ; thô it were much to be wisht that all christian princes would hold such assemblies for the concord and peace of christendom . xxi . the essentials of faith , hope and loving 〈◊〉 , essentiate the church objectively : and these are all summarily contained in the baptismal covenant , explained in the creed , lords prayer and decalouge ; and all with much more , even integrals and needful accidentals in the sacred scriptures , which taking in the law of nature , are gods universal law. xxii . there is no church on earth so sound and orthodox as to want no integral part of christian religion : proved : there is no man on earth , much less any multitude , so sound as to want no integral part : but all churches consist only of men ; and therefore if all the men be so far defective , all the churches are so . it is not their objective religion generally and implicitely received that i mean , but their subjective religion , and their explicite reception of the objective . the scripture is our perfect objective religion in it self , and as an object proposed , and in general and implicitely we all receive it . but as a man may say , i believe all that 's in the scripture , and yet be ignorant of the very essentials in it ; so a man may explicitely know and believe all the essentials and more , and yet be ignorant of many integrals . all things in scripture proposed to our faith , hope and practice , are the integrals of our religion : but no christian understandeth all these proposals or words of scripture : therefore no christian explicitely believeth them all , or practiceth all . to hold the contrary , is to hold that some church is perfect in understanding , faith , hope and practice , without ignorance , errour or sin : that is , not to know what a man or a christian on earth is . xxiii . much less do all churches agree in unnecessary indifferent accidents , nor ever did , nor ever will or can do . xxiv . the measuring out churches by limits of ground , parochial or diocesan , is a meer humane ordering of a mutable accident , and no divine determination : and if all were taken for church members-because they dwell in those precincts , it were wicked : but if it be but all in those precincts that are qualified consenters , it is usually a convenient measure : but such as in many cases must be broken . xxv . if a church with faithful pastors be well setled in a place first where there are not more than should make up that one church , it is not meet for any there to gather a distinct church ( thô of the same faith ) without such weighty reason as will prove it necessary , or like to do more good than hurt : 1. because love inclineth to the greatest union ; 2. because a great church is more strong and honourable than a small , if the number be not so great as to hinder the ends. 3. and the ancient churches kept this union . xxvi . if magistrates make such laws about church accidents as tend to further the churches wellfare , or are so pretended , and not against it , we must obey them . but if they will either invade christs authority or cross it , by making laws against his , or such as are proper to his prerogative to make , or invade the pastors office , and the churches properright given by christ , or determine accidents to the destruction of the substance ( the church , doctrine , worship or ends ) these bind the consciences of none to obedience ; but christ must be obeyed , and we must patiently suffer . xxvii . self-interest , self-government and family-government are all antecedent to publick government , which ruleth them for the common good , but hath no authority to destroy them : no king or prelate can bind a man to do that which would damn his soul , nor to omit that which is needful to his salvation : all power is for edification : they are gods ministers for good. xxviii . as it belongs to self-government to choose our own dyet , and cloaths , and wives , and physicians , ( thô we may be restrained from doing publick hurt on such pretences ; ) and it belongs to family government to educate our own children , and choose their tutors , callings , wives , &c. so it more nearly belongs to self-government to choose the most safe and profitable means of our own salvation , which no man may forbid us ; and to avoid that which is pernicious or hurtful ; and to family-government to do the like for our children . xxix . it is false doctrine of those late writers who tell us , that only sacraments sanctifie or give right to salvation : the whole tenor of the gospel tells us that men are brought to faith and repentance , and to be christians , and godly men , and by faith to be justified , by the preaching of the gospel : and that gods word is his appointed means of salvation , which his ministers must preach skilfully , instantly , in season and out of season , to that end : and if the gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost . xxx . the gospel saveth not like a charm , by the bare sound or saying of the words ; nor the sacrament like an amulet ; but as a moral means ( specially blest by him that instituted it ) to work on man as m●n , by informing his mind , perswading his will and exciting his affections , as men are wrought on in other cases ; ( which methinks those called arminians should least deny , who are said to lay more of the spirits operation on moral suasion than their adversaries ; yea and those that account it fanaticism to expect any other gift of prayer from the spirit but what is given morally by use . ) and the contrary doctrine feigneth god to work even constantly by miracle : and as the papists make every mass-priest a miracle worker in transubstantiation , so do they that make the bare saying over the words and doing the outward acts in the sacrament , to save us ex opere operato , and the pastoral teaching and oversight of an ignorant drunken lad or reader to be ( near ) as great a help to salvation , as the ministry of a wise skilful , holy and exemplary pastor , and the clear affectionate preaching of gods word : and that tell us ( as mr. dodwell ) how sufficient a man is to administer the sacramental covenant that understands what a covenant is in matters of common conversation . xxxi . if a wise and skilful and conscionable ministry be as needless to edification and salvation as some men pretend , it is as needless that they should study to be such , and vain to glory that they are such , and that the church of england hath such a ministry , and vain to expect that men should pay them any more respect than i owed my master that never preacht but once , and that drunken ; ( and divers very like him . ) or that they should use this as an argument to draw men to hear them . xxxii . if the king or law should settle a physician of his ( or a patrons ) choice in every parish , it were well done if it be but to have help at hand for volunteers : but if he command all to use them and to use no other before them or against them , where unskilful or untrustly men are placed , no man is bound to obey this command : no mens law can dissolve the law of nature , nor disoblige a man from a due care of his life , nor bind him to cast it away upon obedience to ignorant or bad and treacherous men. and a mans soul is more precious than his health or life ; and he is bound to greater care of it ; and is no more to trust it on the will of his superiours how vast is the difference between an ignorant rash physician or pastor , and one that is wife , experienced and trusty ? they that scorn men for going for greater edification from one to another , do not so if a man prefer a skilful physician to one that kills more than he cures ; or a skilful and careful tutor for his son , yea or a farrier for his horse . xxxiii . if one preacher be not for edification to be great●● preferred before another , then one book is not : and so it 's no matter what book they read or value ; and what a student will this make ? and what a trade for the booksellers ? and why then should their own books be so valued ? and why then do they silence hundreds or thousands and forbid them to preach on pain of ruine , ( thô no false doctrine be proved against them ) if they think not that the difference is very great . xxxiv . when councils hereticated and condemned thousands or hundreds of priests and bishops , whom christian emperours and princes owned as orthodox , they did not then think every patron , prince or prelate a competent judge with what pastor men should trust the conduct of their souls : nor did they think so that forbad men hearing fornicators ; nor cyprian that required the people to forsake basilides and martial ( & peccatorem praepositum . ) xxxv . so full was the proof given in the book called , the first plea for peace , that the church from the beginning denyed princes and magistrates to be entrusted with the choice of bishops , or pastors to whom the churches were bound to trust the conduct of their souls , that he who denyeth it , is not worthy to be therein disputed with . and yet we doubt not but they may force infidel subjects and catechumens to hear sound and setled preachers and catechists ; and may dispose of the tythes , temples and many other accidents of the church ; and may drive on pastors and people to their duty . xxxvi . it is false doctrine that two distinct churches may not be in the same precincts or city ; this being a meer accident which abundance of cases make unnecessary and unlawful : which i shall prove . that which is no where commanded by god , is no duty : but that there shall be but one church ( or bishop ) in the same precincts , is not commanded of god , ergo , &c. ( divine of gods making . ) they own the major in the case of indifferent thing . if they deny the minor let the affirmers prove any such command . we grant a command of love and concord , and a prohibition of all that is against them . but in many instances , to have several churches in the same precincts , is not against them . if they fly to the canons of foreign councils , the reason of them we shall weigh and duely regard ; but they were national , and had their legislative power only from their own princes and their counselling power only from christ : and we disown all foreign jurisdiction . xxxvii . in all these cases following ( and more ) two churches may be in the same precincts ( yea and a city . ) 1. in case that several bishops are called justly to dwell in the same city , or diocess , and many of their flock be with them , e.g. many bishops of england dwell long , yea mostly in london or in london diocess : e. g. the bishop of eli dwells in the parish of st. andrews holbourn : qu. whether there he be a subject to dr. stilling sleet as his pastor , and bound to obey him ? or whether many out of his diocess ( thousands ) may not as lawfully dwell half the year in london as he ? and whether when he preacheth to them , he do it not as their bishop ( in london diocess . ) and so of many other bishops that here reside . xxxviii . 2. either our parish churches are true churches , or not . if not , the separatists are so far in the right ; and separate not from true churches eo nomine because they separate from them . if yea , then many churches are in the same city and diocess . ( of their agreement and dependance on the same bishop i shall speak anon . ) xxxix . 3. in case that in one city there be resident stranges , that are sent on embassies , or live for merchandize , or flee from miseries , and are the subject of other princes , whose laws and customs they are under , e. g. at frankford , hamburgh , middleburgh , dantzick , const●●●nople , there have been english distinct lawful churches : and in london there are dutch and french churches : and if the king allowed a swedish church , a danish church , a saxon church , &c. with their several bishops , who is so weak as to need proof that this is lawful , and they true churches ? xl. 4. in case men of different language are not capable of mutual converse by personal communion or help : as dutch , french , italian , greeks , germans , &c. grotius and dr. hammond ( oft in dissert , and annot. ) do maintain that peter at rome had a church of jews , and paul a church of gentiles : and that the like distribution of churches of jews and gentiles , there was at antioch , alexandria and other places : and by this they salve the contradictions in church history about the succession of linus , cletus and clemens : and the apostles setled not a sinful church way . xli . 5. yea grotius maintaineth that the apostles setled the churches at first not like the jewish priesthood , but in the order of their synagogues ; ( de imper. sum . patest . and in annot. ) and that as there were divers synagogues in a great city with their archisynagogus and elders , so there were divers churches in a city with bishops and presbyters . xlii . 6. when there are a greater number of persons in one city o● precinct than can have any just personal knowledge and communion , and more than any one bishop with his presbytery can perform the needful pastoral oversight to , it is lawful and a duty , to gather another church in that city or precinct : but this is truly the case of many great cities , though wordly wisdom have at rome , and other places oft denyed notorious evidence and experience . he that will gather up all the duties that dr. hammond saith were charged on the bishops ( in his annotations on all the texts that name elders and bishops ) if he can believe that any bishop can perform the tenth part of them to all in the diocess of london , york , lincoln , norwich , &c. i will not dispute against him if he maintain a bishops u●iquity , or that at once he can be in twenty places . but if they say , that what then was commanded them to do personally , they may do by others , i say , that if they may change the work , they may change the power , that specifieth the office ; and so it is not the same office in specie instituted in scripture : and then lay-men may have power to preach and administer sacraments , and do the office of priest , and yet be no priest ( as civilians do of bishops ) which is a contradiction . certainly if there be more scholars in the city than one master can teach and rule , it is no schism to set up more schools and schoolmasters , but a duty . and if the lord mayor on pretence of city government should put down but as great a part of family government , as those diocesans do of parochial church goverment , who allow none under them to be truly episcopi grigis , and have the power of their church keyes , i think that it were no sch●m to restore families so that the city might have more than one ( entirely . ) xliii . 7. if the soveraign power upon politick or religious reasons should determine , that e. g. dr. a , and dr. b , and dr. c. shall all be bishops in london , to such volunteers of clergy and laity as shall choose each of them to be their bishop , and this without altering their dwellings , no man can prove it sinful ; and of his reasons the king is judge . xliv . 8. if the bishop or clergy of a city , diocess or nation , do agree by law or canon to admit none to the ministry or communion that will not commit a known sin deliberately as the condition of his communion , it is a duty to congregate under other pastors in those prec●●cts . this is confest : if they should not only hold any errour , or practise sin , but require men to subscribe and approve it , and say it is no sin , no man ought to do this ; nor yet to live like an atheist , and forsake all worship because men forbid him , if it were but to subscribe one untruth : but alas , this is no rare case : in one emperours reign all were anathematized that subscribed not to the council of chalcedon , and quickly after all that did , or that would not renounce it : the same division and changes were made by the councils against and for the monothelites , de tribus captrulis , images , &c. and when all men living have many errours , and the church of england disclaimeth her infallibility , and yet will receive no minister that will not subscribe that there is nothing in her books contrary to the word of god , the case is hard . but when all the things mentioned in the plea for peace are proved lawful , we shall be more yielding in this case . xlv . 9. if true and sound christians mistakingly think one or many things to be heinous sins , ( as perjury , lying , renouncing obedience to god , and repentance , &c. ) which are things indifferent , but of so great difficulty that most learned and godly and willing men cannot discern the lawfulness and agree , and yet are not necessary nor just conditions of ministry or communion , and so it is the imposer that entangleth them by difficulty in their dissent , it is not lawful for these men therefore to forbear all church worship , but mi●●t use it as they can . xlvi . 10. if any church unjustly excommunicate such men ; or others , they must not forbear all church order and worship because men so excommunicate them . no man must sin to escape excommunication ; and every man in the world is a sinner ; and therefore all the world must be excommunicated , if all sinners must be so . as i before said , the times oft were when almost all the bishops in the empire were excommunicated by one another : councils and popes have oft excommunicated some for trifles and some for truth and duty . and such must not therefore renounce all church worship and communion . the church of england do by their standing law ipso facto excommunicate all ( as aforesaid ) that affirm any thing to be repugnant to gods word or sinful , in their whole church government , articles , liturgy and ceremonies , and so to stand till they publickly revoke this as a wicked errour . now many lords and commoners in parliaments , have spoken against some of these particulars ; and some out of parliament : many ministers have done the like when the king commissioned them to treat for alterations ; and many when the accusations or demands of others have called them to give a reason of their actions . some have maintained that it is repugnant to gods word that lay civilians should have the decretive power of the keyes , and that the parish minister must cast out of communnion all that the lay doctors or chancellors excommunicate , and all that dare not receive kneeling , and that they should deny christendom to all that scruple the english sort of god-fathers covenants , and the transient symbolical image of the cross , with abundance such things : now all these are ipso sacto excommunicate . and thô they be not bound to avoid the church till this be applicatorily declared , yet actually excommunicate they are , and that by a higher authority than the bishops ; and they know the churches decree ; and the priests are sworn to canonical obedience ; and he that will not temp● them to be forsworn , nor come into a church that hath excommunicated him , seems therein excuseable : but must he therefore renounce the church of god ? xlvii . 11. if the people are so set against one bishop for another , as that half being for one and half for the other , and both orthodox , they cannot be perswaded to unite in one . a council at rome determined in the case of paul●nus and flavian at antioch , that both of them should hold their distinct churches , and so live in love and peace . and though one or both parties in this were mistaken sinners , so are all morral men , who yet must not live like atheists . xlviii . 12. an undetermined accident must be so determined as most serveth to do the greatest good and avoid the greatest evil : but whether divers churches shall promiscuously live in the same city or diocess or parish , is an accident not determined by god , and either way may be for the greatest good , as circumstances vary . e.g. when in a church half cannot consent to condemn the words of theodo●●t , theodore mo●s●est , and ibas , and half will condemn them with the council ; if these can serve god quietly in love and peace in different congregations , but cannot endure one another in the same , it is most for the churches peace that they be permitted to joyn with those of their own mind . ● when one pope declared that it 's sound doctrine to say [ one of the trinity was crucified , ] when another had declared that it is not sound doctrine , they that held with one pope , and they that held with the other might both be true churches in different assemblies : when justinian raised the bloody controversie between the corrupticolae and the phantasiastae , wise men thought both sides were true churches : yea and so did many wise men think of the orthodox and nestor●●ns and many e●tychians . xlix . 13. it 's a common case under turks and heathens , that they give liberty of conscience for christians of all parties : now suppose that in ateppo , in constantinople or elsewhere , there be ( partly for countrey sake , and partly for language , but most for different judgments ) one church of armenians , one of greeks , one of english-men , &c. what law of god makes only one of these to be a true church , and which is it ? l. 14. suppose that the setled church e.g. in holland , sweden , saxony , is for presbytery , or for an episcopacy that arose from presbyters ordination , or that had none or a short liturgy , and the prince would tolerate english men ( as frankford did ) to set up a church of the english form and liturgy , i think few prelatists would deny it to be lawful . li. i omit other instances , and come to the matter of separation , which word serveth this man and such other in so general and undistinguished a sence , as would make one think he were of mr. dodwell's mind , that words in dispute have but one signification , which all are bound to know that use them . even a bell by the same sound sometime signifieth a call to church , and sometime a funeral , and sometime joy ; but [ separate , separate ] is rung over and over with these men , as if it signified but one thing . 1. he that heareth half the sermon and service , and goeth out of church , doth separate at that time from the rest . when a protestant heretick was doing penitence with his faggot at st. maries in oxford , and the fryer was preaching , a mistaken voice in the street made them think the hereticks had set the church on fire , and they separated from the preacher , one fryer stuck by the belly that was going out at the window ; the door being wedged with the crowd , a boy that saw it open above their heads , got up on their shoulders , and went on till he slipt into a monks cowl , and there lay still 'till the monk was got out , and felt something on his back , and thinking it was an heretical devil , began to conjure him in the name of father , son and holy ghost , to tell him what he was , and the boy cryed , o good master i am the bakers boy , &c. quaere , whether this was schismaticks separation . at wal●all in sta●ford-shire , mr. lapthorne ( known to me in his lusty age ) who had been a non-conformist , but thought it an honour to be converted by a king , and gloried that king james in conference changed him ; but being as rustick a thunderer as father latimer and more , he was wont to let fly without much fear ; one mr. martin in the parish accounted the greatest enemy to puritans , when he heard what he liked not , would goe out of church ; one day ( in a path way where mr. lane had rode a little before ) pelting crabs with a pole , the ground opened and swallowed him and his pole , that they could never be found ( being a cole-mine long on fire : ) ever after that , when any one would goe out of church at a blustering passage , mr. lapthorne would call to him , remember martin ; quere , whether all these were separating schismaticks ? but this is too far off : in dunstans west , where dr. sherl●ck preacheth , when i was licensed twenty years ago , at christmas , as i was preaching , some lime or stone fell down in the steeple with the crowd , the church being old and under suspicion , they all thought it was falling , and most ran out in tumult , and some cast themselves headlong from the gallery for hast ; when they were quieted and came in again , the boyes in the chancel broke a wainscot skreen with climbing on it , and the noise made them run out again ; one old woman going out , cryed , it 's just with god because i took not the first warning , lord forgive me , and i 'le never come again : quere , whether these , or at least this resolving woman was a schismatick , and separated from the catholick church ? if not , there is some separation that is not so bad as murder ; and methinks the doctor should forgive it for the success ; for the parish hereupon resolved to pull down the church and build it new , a far better fabrick where the dr. now preacheth ; and it drove me away that i preacht there no more ; whether this new church built where the old one had possession before , be not a schismatical separatist , i leave to him . lii . 2. local separation without mental can make no culpable schism ; for nil nisi volunt artum est morale ; if a man be imprisoned or be sick and cannot come to the church , it is innocent separation ; i have been at no church this half year , much against my will , o that god would heal me of this separation ! liii . 3. if it must be mental separation that must be culpable , then it is diversified according to the mental degree and kind ; and no man separateth from the universal church who separateth not from somewhat essential to it ; to separate from its integrals or accidents may be culpable , but it 's no separation from the church , no more than every breach of the law is a separation from the kingdom . liv. 4. some separate as to place , locally and not mentally , some mentally and not locally , and some both : he that daily observeth the outward communion of the church , and yet taketh it for no church , or denyeth it● faith , hope or essential duty , separateth indeed . all those men that live unbelievingly , atheistically , wickedly , that in their converse prate against the scripture and immortality of the soul , and that hate and persecute serious godliness , are damnably separated from christ , and therefore from the catholick church , and are so to be esteemed so far as this is known , thô when it is unknown , the church can take no notice of it . lv. 5. it being only humane laws and circumstantial conveniences 〈◊〉 make it unmeet to have divers churches and bishops living promiscuously in the same parishes , cities , dioceses or nations ; where laws and circumstances allow it , it is no unlawful separation . lvi . 6. he that liveth in forreign lands ( christian , mahometan or heathen ) where various churches live promiscuously ( greeks , armenians , protestants , papists , &c. ) is no schismatick , if he choose which he thinks best , and be absent locally from the rest , condemning them no further than they deserve . lvii . 7. he that removeth into another diocess or parish for his worldly interest , separateth without fault from the church he was in . lviii . 8. it is a lawful separation to remove ones dwelling , because the minister is ignorant , unskilful , or otherwise bad , and this for the better edification of his soul , and the use and help of a more able faithful minister , even law and custome and reason do allow it . lix . 9. thô the canon 57. and 28. ●orbid ministers oft to give the sacrament to strangers that come out of other parishes , even where no preaching is , yet those many sober people that use this in london , are not taken to be schismaticks , as bad as murderers : many that are esteemed the most sober religious conformists do ordinarily goe from their own parish churches , some ( in martins and st. giles's parish , &c. ) for want of room , and some for more edification , to dr. ●illotson , dr. s●illingfleet , dr. burnet , dr. fowler , mr. gifford , mr. durham , mr. h●rneck and such others , and communicate with them ; and thô these are called by the late catholicks by the name of dangerous trimmers , i think even dr. sherlock will think it more pardonable than murder , if they come to him . lx. 10. if the king and law should restore the antient order that every city , that is , every great incorporate town in england should have a bishop , ( yea or every great parish ) and that the diocesans should be their arch-bishops , and our new catholicks should tell the king and parliament that they are hereby unchristened schismaticks , as dangerous as adulterers or murderers , for gathering churches within a church , i would not believe them . lxi . 11. if ( e.g. at fran●ford , zurick , lubeck , hamburgh , &c. ) a church is settled in the lutheran way , and another in the bohemian way , described by lasitius and commenius , ( which is a conjunction of episcopacy , presbytery and independency ) or a church that had no liturgy , or none but that which the french protestants and dutch have , would it be damning schism , for such as cox and horne at fran●ford to set up an episcopal church in the english mode , and with their liturgy , and so far to separate from the rest ? lxii . 12. if it be true that john maior , fordon , and others say that presbytery was the government of the church of scotland before episcopacy was brought in , was the introduction of episcopacy by palladius a damning schism by separating from the former , or a reformation ; is just reformation schism ? lxiii . 13. when the church first set up patriarchs , metropolitans , general councils , monasteries , parish churches distinct from cathedrals , organs , new liturgies , and multitudes of ceremonies , this was a departing or separating from the contrary church way which was there before , was it therefore schism ? lxiv . 14. when socrates tells us of some countreys that had bishops in the countrey villages ( like our parishes ) was it a damning schism to separate from this custome , by decreeing that even small cities should have no bishops , ne vilescat nomen episcopi ? or when the 〈◊〉 were put down , where they had been ? lxv . 15. if a man separate not from any thing essential to the church of england , he separateth not from that church , though he refuse that which is its accidents , or some integral parts : we are charg'd with separating from the church of england , as if it were a matter of fact beyond dispute , and scorn'd for denying it , even by them that will not tell us what they mean by the church of england , or by separation . by the church of england we mean the christian kingdom of england , or all the christians in england , as living in one land , under one christian king who governeth them by the sword , which includeth their concord among themselves in true christianity ; we are christians , we profess agreement in christianity with all christians we are under the same king as they are , and profess subjection , and take ; the same oaths of allegiance and supremacy ; yea , we are not charged with differing in any thing called doctrinal from their thirty nine articles ; but we disown certain late covenants and oaths which are not twenty three years old , and the subscription to one canon about the innocency of all in their liturgy ; now either these new oaths , covenants and canon , liturgy and ceremonies are essential to the church of england , or not ; if yea , then , 1. it 's a poor humane church , made by them that made these oaths , liturgy and ceremonies . 2. and then it 's a new upstart church , and no man can answer the papists where it was before luther , or before henry 8. yea , if its essentials were made by this king and parliament , 1662. then the present church is no older : but if these things be indifferent , or not essential to the church , then to separate only from these , is not to separate from the church . if it be said , that for the sake of these we separate from the church it self , and therefore from its essence ; we abhor the accusation , and challenge them to prove it : if we separate from the church essentially , it is either locally or mentally ; not locally , for we are yet in england , nor is local distance only a sin ; not mentally , for we own it for a true christian kingdom , called a national church , bound to serve christ in love and concord to their power : we deny not the king to be the governour , nor christians to be christians , no nor the particular churches and ministers to be true ( thô culpable ) churches and ministers , nor th●ir sacraments to be true sacraments ; we profess to hold with them one catholick body , one spirit , one god , one christ , one faith , one baptism ( in the essentials ) and one hope , and are ready to promise to live in concord with them in all other things , as far as will stand with our obedience to god ; so that we separate not from the church of england as such , but from some of its accidents , which we dare not be guilty of . lxvi . 16. the same i say of a parish church ; he that locally removeth , e.g. from a church that hath organs , to one that hath none , separateth from a pair of organs , but not mentally from the church , unless the organs be its essence . lxvii . 17. they that are for the true antient episcopacy , ( e.g. as much as arch-bishop vsher's reduction which we offer'd did contain ) but dislike the lay civilians power of the keyes , and officials , surrogates , arch-deacons government , &c. do not separate from the church as episcopal , but from the humane novelties which they disown . lxviii . 18. if a parishioner fall out with his priest , and they goe to law about tythes , glebes , words , &c. and the suit be long , and the man dare not communicate with him believing that he hateth him , th● the animosity should be culpable , being but personal , his going from him to another church is not separating from christ ; ( for i hope that even mr. dodwell himself will not say that every priest is christ. ) lxix . 19. ex qu●●is ligno non fit mercurius , surely there is some qualification essential to the ministry ; if a man want that qualification , it is a duty to separate from him as no minister , e.g. when i came to rederminster , ( after my subjection to six or seven worse ) i found the vicar , one reputed ignorant of the fundamentals , ( he was brought in by sir henry blunt a p●pist ) who preacht but once a quarter , which most thought he might better have forborn , and his curate mr. turner at mitton preacht once a day , whom i found ignorant of the catechism principles by conference , and he confest he had but one book , musculus common places in english , and he said some of that to the people , and they took it for a sermon ; he lived by unlawful marrying , infamous for drinking and quarrelling ; he that had taken these for no ministers , and separated from them , had not thereby separated from christ or his church catholick . lxx . 20. if it prove as hard to know who is the true pastor in a competition of pretenders , as it was to know which was the true pope , when there were two or three , ( above twenty times ) or whether , e.g. optandus was true bishop of geneva that knew not letters , or whether duke heriberts son consecrated in infancy was arch-bishop of rhemes , or any other infant consecrated be a bishop , ( officiating per alios , surrogates , chancellours , off●cials , &c. ) it is not here a separation from christ to separate from either of the pretenders : he that mistaketh not , is not liable to the charge , he that mistakes , doth not erre in an article of faith , but in a difficult point of humane title , and the qualification and right of a single man ; and my opinion is , that if such a title were tryed before our judges or king , and they should mistake and give judgment against him that had right , this were no separating from christ , nor proof that they are infidels . lxxi . 21. if the case of two contending bishops or presbyters come before a general or provincial council , and they mistake and give it to the wrong , and so separate from the right , i do not think that thereby they separate from christ or the church catholick , e.g. the constantinopolitan council first gave the church of constantinople to nazianzene , and after judged him out as having no right ; if by this they separated from christ , they that take them for the catholick church representative , must say that the catholick church separated from christ and it self . when another council wrongfully deposed chrysostome , and separated from him , and cyril alexandr . perswaded the continuance of it , did the universal church separate from it self and christ ? if a general council which should be wisest , be excusable from damning schism , whenever it misjudgeth and separateth from a rightful bishop , sure every lay-man and woman that doth the same , doth not separate from christ. if it prove that a general council deposed nestorius as unjustly as david derodon thought , or dioscorus as unjustly as others thought , or flavian as unjustly as the orthodox think , this proveth them guilty of some schism , but not of separating from the universal church . when menna of constantinople , and the pope excommunicated each other , when a synod in italy renounced vigilius , and all his successors were an hundred y●●rs deposed from their primacy , and a patriarch at aquileia set up in his stead for a great part of italy , because vigilius subscribed to a general council , de tribus capitulis , this was schism ( somewhere ) but not separating from christ. lxxii . 22. if a man in england should think that all the old councils were obligatory , which decree that he shall be taken for no bishop that comes in by the choice ( yea or mediation ) of courtiers , princes or great men , or any that have not the true consent of clergy and people , and thereupon should conclude that bishops , deans , prebends , &c. so chosen and imposed are lay-men and no true bishops and pastors , this were a separating from those persons , but not from christ and the vniversal church , when as mr. thorndike saith , that till the right of electing bishops by the clergy and people be restored , we need look no further for the reason of the contempt of episcopacy here . so if a man think that god never trusted every ignorant wicked man that can but get money and buy an advowson , to choose those pastors to whose conduct all the people are bound to trust their souls , ( and the bishop to admit them for fear of a quare impedit , if they have but a certificate and can speak latine ) this is not damning separation . lxxiii . 23. if a bishop set up a seeming convert , really a papist ( e.g. mr. hutchinson alias berry , or one of them that lately confessed themselves papists , ) the people that find by experience what the man is , are not damned schismaticks for not taking him for their pastor , or for going from him . if godfrey goodman bishop of gloucester was a papist , did he separate from christ that separated from the diocesan church of glouc●ster , while he was an essential part ? or that did not implicitely trust all the priests that he ordained ? lxxiv . 24. if in a cathedral church one withdraw from their service , because of their difference in ●●●ing , ceremonies , &c. from the parish churches , tho it be the bishops church that he separateth from , it is not as a church , nor from ●nything ess●ntial to it , e.g. miles smyth bishop of gloucester ( the famous 〈◊〉 , and ●hief in our bibles translation ) declared and performed 〈…〉 he would never come more to his cathedral , because the dean ( in 〈◊〉 time ) kept up the altar . qu. whether he separated from himself or his church ? v●i episcopus ibi ecclesia : who were the separatists ? they that fellowed the bi●hop , or they that separated from him and kept to the c●hedral ? the same ●●ay of williams bishop of lincoln that wrote against 〈◊〉 . lxxv . 25. if faithful pastors and people are setled in concord , and the higher powers make a law to depote and eject them without jast cause ( as multitudes were in many emperours dayes , and multitudes by the interim in germany in charles the fifths time ; and multitudes in the palatinate by ludo●icus , and in too many other countreys ) those that leave the temples and tythes to the magistrate , but cleave to their old pastors in forbidden meetings ( called conventicles ) supposing the pastoral relation not dissolved ( as the 〈◊〉 clave to chrysostom ) do not thereby separate from the catholick church : had the power been lawful that set up another way , when dr. gu●●ng kept up his meetings at exeter house , it had not been a separation from christ that he then made . lxxvi . 26. if the law command all to take one man for his pastor , and a parent command his child , or a husband his wife to take another and not that , and the child or wife know not which should be obeyed , and whether the choice belong more to the domestick , or the publick government , it is not a separating from christ , which way ever such an one shall go . lxxvii . 27. yea if i should think that self-interest and self-government bind me rather to choose a pastor for my self , than to stand to such a choice by prince , patron or prelate , which i think intolerable , as well as ( against their will ) i may choose a wife , or a physician , or a tutor , or a book , or my daily food , this is not separating from the universal church . lxxviii . 28. if owning the same diocesan make them of one church who differ more than nonconformists and conformists do , then owning the same christ , faith , scripture , &c. maketh them of one catholick church who differ less . but , &c. jesuites , dominicans , jansenists , and all the sects of papists are taken for one church , because they own the pope and councils . in england the diocesan conformists are taken for one church , thô some of them are as much for a foreign jurisdiction , as arch-bishop land , arch-bishop bromhall , bishop gunnings chaplain , dr. saywell , mr. thorndike , dr. heylin , and many more , have manifested in their words and writings . and some that subscribe the articles of general councils erring in faith and against heathens salvation , and against free will , and for justification by faith only , &c. do shew that they differ in the doctrines of religion , ( unless the sound or syllables be its religion ) while one and another take the words in contrary sences . some are for diocesans being a distinct order from presbyters , some ( as vsher and many such ) deny it : some hold them to be of divine right , and some but of humane ; some think the king must choose them , some rather the clergy and people ; some hold them independent , others rather subject to the arch-bishops and convocation ; some think all that bear office in their church government are lawful , others think lay-civilians government by the keyes unlawful ( and so are ipso facto excommunicate by their own canons ; ) some that promise canonical obedience to their ordinary , take the judges of the ecclesiastical co●rts for their ordinaries ; and others only the bishop● ; some think they are sworn to obey their ordinaries , if they 〈◊〉 according to the canons ( and so to pronounce all excommunicate that he canon excommunicates , if commanded ; ) others think otherw●●e , that they are judges themselves whether the canons command 〈◊〉 & hon●sta ; some take the pope to be antichrist , and the church of rome no true church ; others think otherwise . many more ( arminian and other ) such differences there are , and yet all of one church , both catholick , national , diocesan and parochial ( oft : ) much more are those nonconformists that di●●er from the church in nothing but what the imposers call ●●different . lxxix . 29. if one that prayeth in the litany against false doctrine and sch●●m , and ●e●deth the conformists telling him of the danger of it , should verily think that dr. s. printeth and pr●●heth false doctrine , and such as plainly tendeth to serve satan against christian love and peace , and to the most schismatical dividing and damning of christians , should hereupon separate from him for fear of schi●m and false doctrine , and go to a safer pastor , i think it were not to separate from christ. lxxx . 30. if a bishop in any diocess in london should openly write or plead for a foreign jurisdiction , and we are told that none are true ministers that depend not obediently on the bishop , he that for fear of the law , or of personal or common perjury , should separate from that bishop and his numerical diocesan church , doth thereby neither separate from the catholick church , nor from the church of england . as if the kings army should have a colonel that declared himself an obliged subject to the king of france and bound to obey him , the regiment may forsake that colonel . yea if the general of the kings army should give up himself in subjection to the enemy or a foreign power , and say , i will take a commission from the turk , and my officers shall only obey me , and the soldiers obey them , were not this an army of traytors or rebels , though none but the general took a commission from the enemy ? so if the bishops should all take commissions from the pope , or declare themselves subjects to a forreign jurisdiction , it were no separating from christ , to separate from them all , in loyalty to christ , and to avoid national perjury and schism . lxxxi . 31. if a man think that he is bound to use all christs instituted means of salvation , and live in a church that wilfully omitteth any one of them , e.g. either infant baptism , or singing psalms , or praying , or preaching , or the lords supper , or all personal care , and discipline to exclude the grosly intolerable , to resolve the doubting , &c. he that in obedience to christ goeth to a church and pastor ( in the same diocess or city ) that omitteth none of these , is no damned schismatick . lxxxii . 32. he that is unjustly cast out of the church , and by its very laws excommunicated ipso facto , is no damned or sinful schismatick for worshipping god in a church that will receive him : nor any one that is denyed communion unless he will sin ; much more if they should prove half as many and great sins as the nonconformists have said they fear ( in the first plea for peace , &c. ) lxxxiii . 33. if a foreigner that doth but half understand our language , withdraw to a church and pastor whose tongue he understands , obeying god and nature is no damning schism . lxxxiv . 34. if one that is erroneously conceited of the obligation of general councils , should think it a sin to kneel at the sacrament on any lords day in the year , or any week day between easter and whitsuntide , because tradition and the twentieth canon of the first council , and that at trull , &c. do forbid then to adore kneeling , this separating on that account to another congregation is not damning . if it be said , that mr. 〈…〉 us that it is not necessary that we do the same things which the supream catholick power commanded , but that we subject our selves to the same , power which may change their own laws . i answer , 1. the asserting of that universal soveraignty is the greatest crime and ●●eresie of all . 2. by this it seems that our religion is very mutable , 〈◊〉 very uncertain , and a man hath 〈◊〉 to take heed of obeying any old canons , till he know the mind of the present church ; ( and who those be ▪ and how to know it . ) 3. but what if the same man read dr. hey●●● of sab. ) telling him that this custome against adoration-kneeling continued a thousand years , and was never revok●t by any true general council , but changed by little and little by mens practice : and what if he question who those changers were , and whether their practice was rebeilion at 〈◊〉 , and whether they had power to repeal the canons of the greatest councils without a council . sure they that are for such councils universal soveraignty , when they have cast men into these snares , should scarce tell them that they are damnable schismaticks , for joyning with such churches as obey these councils , rather than with those that ruine men for not disobeying them . lxxxiv . and now reader if thou art one that thinkest of these things with christian sobriety and impartiality , i appeal to thee whether if i should be of the mind of mr. dodwell , and such self-conceited resolvers , i should not write my own condemnation , and be one of the grossest schismaticks that any history hath mentioned , unless ever there were any man so mad as to hold himself to be all the church : yea , when he no more distinguisheth of separation and schism , but involves almost all christians in his condemnation , and tells us that schism will damn us as soon as adultery and murder , is it not obvious for all men to infer that we are as odious as adulterers and murderers ? and doth he not preach christians into the hatred of each other ? and can any wonder if rulers should think the punishment of m●r●●rers is not worse than we deserve ? it is not newgate only , but tyburn that these healing men do seem to assign us ; it would be too tedious to look over all these again , and shew you how great the number is that these men damn , and how few on earth in any age they excuse from being so far like murderers . lxxxv . 1. it seems to me that he virtually damneth all christians on earth as such schismaticks ; for it is most certain that all men have sin , and culpable imperfection in knowledge , will and practice ; and if any say , that he hath no sin , he is a lyar , saith st. john ; and it is certain that all two persons on earth have many errours , and many differences from one another ; it is certain that the love and duty of christians towards each other is culpably defective in all men : it is certain that no man living is so perfect in knowledge as to know all the indifferent things in the world , which may be imposed , to be indifferent ! and long and sad experience hath told the church , that both gross errours and sins , and things called truths or indifferent , which few can be sure of , may be imposed . what follows from all this , but that all men on earth may easily fall under the imputation of disobedience to prelates , and so be excommunicate , and then they have their choice ( when no man is perfect , and they cannot change their minds ) 1. whether they will be damned as excommunicate 〈…〉 that give over all church worship ; 2. or as damma●●●● 〈…〉 worshipping god in churches when they are excomm●●● 〈…〉 lyars , that will make false confessions , pro●●●● 〈…〉 to get off an excommunication . when mr. do●●el 〈…〉 with schismaticks that [ suffer themselves to be excommunicate , ] 〈…〉 no other means in their power to hinder it , it seems these great 〈…〉 to absolute reprobation , do think all christians being unavoidably 〈◊〉 to imperfection of knowledg , are as unavoidably born to damnation whenever prelates or priests please thus to precipitate them . lxxxvi . 2. particularly , 1. the first and second canons ipso acto excommunicate all that say [ that any manner of obedience and subjection within 〈◊〉 majesties realms and dominions is due to any usurped and foreign power : ] by this all papists and all pretended protestants ( such as dr. barrow confuteth ) who hold any manner of obedience and subjection due to pope or foreign councils , are excommunicate . 2. those that say that the book of common prayer containethany thing init repugnant to the scriptures , are ipso facto excommunicate . which now by the new laws are interpreted of the present books . 3. in this all are excommunicate who say , the mis-translations ( in psalms , epistles or gospels , of which many instances have been given ) to be any thing repugnant in the scripture . 4. and all that say , it is against the scripture to deny christendom to all infants that 〈◊〉 not such vo●ers in their names and for their education as we call godfathers , and godmothers , thô the parent ( who is forbidden it ) offer his child by sponsion . 5. and all that say it is against scripture to deny christendom to all that refuse the covenanting transient images of a cross. 6. and all that say that it is against scripture for all ministers to profess [ that it 's certain by gods word that baptized infants ( without exception ) so dying are undoubtedly saved ] when no word of god is cited that saith it , and adding to gods word is dreadfully threatned , and when it 's certain that 〈…〉 are not certain of any such thing ( and i think no one . ) 7. all are ipso facto excommunicate that say , it is against gods word to deny church communion in the sacrament to all that dare not take it kneeling , for fear ( tho mistaken ) of breaking the second commandment by symbolizing with idolaters , that are seeking to reduce the nation to their sin , and that live round about us . 8. all are excommunicate that say it is against scripture to pronounce all saved that are buryed , except the unbaptized , self-murderers and the excommunicate , while thousands of sadducees , hobbists , infidels , papists , perjured , adulterers , drunkards , &c. dwell among us . 9. by the fifth canon all are ipso facto excommunicate that say , [ any of 〈◊〉 articles are in any part erroneous , or such as they ( perhaps as doubters ) may not with a good conscience subscribe to , ] and consequently 〈…〉 conformists that think the sence erroneous while they 〈…〉 and shall affirm , e.g. that canons are made necessary to 〈…〉 matter cannot be proved by scripture , contrary to art. 6. those that contrary to art. 8. say , any thing in athanas●●● 〈…〉 be subscribed . such as bishop taylour that against art. 9. deny orginal 〈◊〉 those that say contrary to art. 10. that the word 〈…〉 common natural power , or maketh nature to be grace . those that write against our being accounted righteous , only for christs ●●●rits , and say that another subordinate righteousness is named many hundred times in scripture , contrary to art. 11. those that contrary to art. 13. say , that works done before the inspiration of the spirit may make men meet to receive grace . those that with dr. hammond write for works that are not commanded but counselled , and free-will-offerings , contrary to art. 14. all they that take infants and new baptized persons to have no sin , contrary to art. 15. all that say , that after we have received the h. ghost , we cannot depart from grace given , contrary to art. 16. those that deny the doctrine of election , in art. 17. those that say , any on earth may be saved by diligent living according to the light of nature , without knowing the name of christ , contrary to art. 18. those that contrary to art. 19. reject that description of a visible church , which reacheth to such as our resolver damneth . all that contrary to art. 20. say , that the church [ may not enforce any thing to be believed for necessity to salvation , besides the scripture ] even those that say , it 's necessary to salvation , by avoiding schism to believe that all imposed tyths , covenants practices , and ceremonies are not sin . all that contrary to art. 21. say , that general or other councils may be gathered without the command and will of princes , and deny they may erre , and things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority , unless 〈◊〉 be declared that they are taken out of holy scripture . those that deny art. 23. that those are lawfully called and sent into the ministry , who have publick authority given them in the congregation , to call and send ministers into the lords vineyard , are chosen and called hereto , ( for want of canonical succession . ) those that contrary to art. 24. would have gods worship performed to them that understand not the language , to avoid the schism of having many churches in a city . those that take confirmation or penance , or the other three for sac●●ments of the gospel contrary to art. 25. those that contrary to art. 26. would not have it believed to be the peoples duty , who know the offences of bad ministers , to accuse them . all that contrary to art. 27. are against infant baptism , as agreeable to christs institution . all that contrary to art. 28. say , the body of christ is given and taken and eaten in the sacrament otherwise than in a spiritual manner by faith. all that say , that in some wise the wicked are partakers of christ in the sacrament , contrary to art. 29. all that contrary to art. 30. say , there is other satisfaction for sin besides christs blood. all that say , that men justly excommunicate may be reconciled and received by the multitude without open penance ( which is ordinary ) contrary to art. 33. all that contrary to art. 34. think that a general council may ordain such traditions or ceremonies as shall in all places be one or the like : and that every particular or national church may not abolish those ceremonies or rites which the general council or colledge ordained . many things in the book of homilies [ especially against peril of idolatry ] are blamed by many conformists , contrary to art. 35. all that contrary to art. 36. say , that the book of ordination wants some things necessary . all that contrary to art 37. think that pope or foreign bishops have any jurisdiction by right in this land : and all that ( by mistake ) say , the king hath not chief power in all his dominions , meaning in france , of which he professeth to be king , and we so call him even in our prayers to god. all that say , contrary to art. 38. that it is not their duty liberally to give alms , according to their ability . all that contrary to art. 39 think men in conforming may swear upon trust of their superiours words , without judgment , and true understanding of justice and truth . all these are already ipso facto excommunicated by this one canon , and if they elsewhere worship god , are called separatists and schismaticks , in danger of damnation , as adulterers and murtherers are : and how great a number are these ? 10. all are ipso facto excommunicate by the sixth canon , who affirm , that the rites and ceremonies of the church of england , by law established , are superstitious , or such as ( now commanded ) men who are zealously and godly affected , may not with a good conscience approve , use and subscribe as occasion requireth . that is , all that thus mistake kneeling at the sacrament , on the reasons aforenamed , to be against the second commandment , or that judge so of the surplice , or that think the cross , as described by the canon and liturgy , hath all the essentials of a humane unlawful sacrament of the covenant of grace . and all that are against the rites of godfathers that never owned the child as theirs , to be theonly sponsors in its name , and to vow its christ●●● education ( when i never knew one living that so much as made the par●●● believe that he intended it : ) and all that think the words of the liturgy ( making imposition of hands an assuring sign of gods gracious acceptance ) make confirmation a humane unlawful sacrament , and say so . all these are cut off . 11. by canon seventh all are ipso facto excommunicate that affirm , that the government of the church of england , under his majesty , by arch-bishops , bishops , deans , archdeacons , and the rest that bear office in the same , is repugnant to gods word ; that is , all bishops , ministers , noblemen , gentlemen or people , that say that it is against gods word for lay civilians or chancellours to govern by the church keyes , excommunicate or absolve : and all that think it unlawful for surrogates that are not bishops but presbyters , either as a cryer proforma to pronounce all excommunicate or absolved who are so decreed by the lay chancellor , or else for them ( or a priest-chancellour ) to govern a diocess by the keyes of excommunication and absolution being no bishops ; and all that think it sinful for archdeacons , commissaries ; officials , &c. who are no bishops , to exercise the same government by the keyes over so many pastors or churches , or for a bishop to do his office by others that are no bishops , any more than a priest by those that are no priests ; or for a diocesan with his lay court , to govern many score or hundred churches under him , without any subordinate bishop in those churches , that is , to set up the name and shew , and make christs discipline impossible : or for lay chancellors or surrogates to publish excommunications in the bishops name , which he never knew of , nor tryed the cause : or for such chancellours to oblige all parish ministers to publish all their excommunications which are agreeable to these canons . what quality and number they are of that call any of this sinful , i pretend not to know : but they are all now excommuni●●te men . 12. the eight canon ipso facto excommunicateth all that affirm that the form and manner of making and 〈…〉 any thing repugnant to gods word , &c : ] that is , all those that hold bishops and presbyters to be the same order ( contrary to the words of that book . ) which yet even the church of england while papists declared in king aelfriks canons ( see spelman : ) and all such as 〈◊〉 , who say the people and clergy should choose their bishops ; or that say the peoples consent is necessary to the pastoral relation to them , and that the old canons for 〈◊〉 are in force . 13. the ninth canon ipso facto excommunicateth the separatists . 14. the tenth canon excommunicateth all that 〈…〉 〈…〉 ipso facto is not here . ) this reacheth to all that consfine not 〈◊〉 church in england to the party that subscribe and their adherents : if 〈◊〉 say , that if such as blondel , rivet , amesius , or any other the most learned , holy , peaceable men that dare not subscribe as aforesaid , should with any christians worship god together , and that these are a true church ( though he judge them faulty ) and that these canons are grievances , such are to be excommunicated : ( though it be gross schism in others to confine not onely the purity but the verity of a church to their own party : ) for such to feel and ●roan loud here is excommunication . 15. the eleventh canon much to the same purpose requireth the excommunication of all that affirm that any subjects in england may rightly challenge the name of true and lawful churches besides those allowed by law , though the king should license them . 16. the twelfth canon ipso facto excommunicateth all , that make rules and orders in causes ecclesiastical without the kings authority , and submit to them , e. g. all that without the king authority agree to turn the table altar-wise , to require people to kneel at the rails , or to bow toward the alter or east , or to set up organs , &c. all these are now excommunicate by an authority above the bishops , which no bishop or priest can dispense with ( but only forbear to publish and execute it , but not nullifie it ) no nor absolve any that publickly repent not of it as a wicked errour . 16. by canon fourteenth if any minister shall diminish any part of the orders , rites , ceremonies , prayers , &c. in regard of preaching or any other respect , or shall adde any thing in matter or form , ( e. g. if he let the parent express the dedication of his child to god , or lay any charge on any parent ) he breaketh the church law , and so far separateth from it . 17. by canon fifteenth when twenty or thirty thousand are commanded to come to a church that cannot receive six thousand , and the alleys and pewes are wedg'd so that they cannot all kneel , yet all that kneel not at the prayers , and all that say not audibly the confession , lords prayer , creed and responses , disobey the laws of the church , and so far separate from it . 18. when twenty thousand persons are commanded to come in more than can , if ten thousand of them ( or any number ) should come to the church-yard or porch , to shew that they are not presentable , but would yet in if they could , the nineteenth canon commands to drive them away . 19. the liturgy and canon 22. &c. bind all under the penalty of the law to receive the sacrament thrice every year : if a secret infidel , sadducel , hobbist , socinian , or any heretick say , i am not able to charge my judgment , which is inconsistent with the sacrament , or if one whose conscience tells him of the guilt of adultery , and that he is not resolved to confess and forsake it yet ; or one that by melancholy causelessly feareth unworthy receiving to damnation ; i say , if any of these will avoid the charge of s●hism , they must ran upon worse , till grace recover them , which is not at their command . and yet all notorious offenders are prohibited it canon 26. and particularly the perjured : and if the tenth part so man● be perjured in england in city and countrey , as many fear , it 's a very great number that are uncapable of communion with the church . 20. by canon twenty seventh on pain of suspension no minister must witfingly administer the communion to any but such as kneel , or to any that refuse to be present at publick prayers , &c. so that all that kneel not in receiving are rejected , and if they worship god elsewhere , must be taken for schismaticks , as dangerous as adulterers or murderers . 21. the twenty eighth canon forbids admitting strangers to communion , and commands sending them home to their parish churches : it 's disobedience to violate this . 22. the twenty ninth canon forbids urging parents to be present when their children are baptized , and admitting them to answer as godfathers for their own children ; and any godfather to make any other answer or speech than the prescribed . 23. the thirtieth canon describeth the cross as a sacrament , as seemeth to us . 34. by the thirty sixth canon no man must be a minister that subscribeth : not that the book of common prayer and ordination contains nothing in it contrary to the word of god , and that he himself will use no other form in publick prayer and administration of the sacraments : by which all that refuse this , or that use the forms made and imposed by the bishops on occasions of publick fasts and thanksgivings , seem all to be under disobedience to the church . 35. by canon fourty ninth no person not licensed as a preacher , may in 〈◊〉 cure or elsewhere , expound any scripture , or matter or doctrine , but onely shall study to read plainly the homilies : so that all ministers before licence to preach , all school-masters , all parents , or masters , that do expound to their schollars , children or servants , the meaning of baptism , or of any article of the creed , any petition of the lords prayer , any one of the ten commandments ( to fit them for confirmation , or salvation ) otherwise than by plain reading the homilies or church catechism , doth disobey the law of the church : and so do all tutors in the universities that expound any scripture , matter or doctrine to their pupils , before they are examined or approved by the bishop ; or any judge on the bench or justice that presumeth to do it to the hearers , or any friend or neighbour in discourse : for it is [ no person whatsoever not examined and approved by the bishop of the diocess . ] how few in england separate not from the church as far as this disobedience amounts to ? if by [ no persons ] be meant only [ no ministers ] it 's hard enough , that ministers may not be allowed out of the church what lay-men are allowed . 36. all those that deny not the validity of baptism or the lords supper when they are done by an unpreaching minister , but yet think that a man utterly unable to teach otherwise than by reading , may not lawfully be encouraged in so high a function , ( any more than a man in physick or school-teaching that hath not necessary skill , or is utterly illiterate , ) and thinks it a sin to consent to take such an ignorant fellow for the pastor of his soul if he can have better ; if this man , i say , go to the next parish church for sacraments , he is to be suspended first and next excommunicate : specially if he should judge that ignorant reader , no true minister for want of necessary capacity . 37. surplices , hoods and tippets are made the matter of obedience , canon fifty eighth . 38. by canon thirty eighth no minister must refuse or delay to christen any child ( without exception ) according to the form of the common prayer , that 's brought to church to him on sundaies or holy-daies , though the parents be both jewes or heathens or atheists or sadducees : the minister must be suspended that refuseth it . 39. the seventy first canon suspendeth all ministers that preach in any private house ( except to the sick or impotent in time of necessity . ) by which had paul here preached publickly and from house to house , or timothy in season and out of season as dreadfully adjured , or christ preacht as he oft did , they must be suspended : and every minister that preacheth to his family : and no doubt , repeating his sermon , is preaching the same again . 40. all ministers must be suspended and then excommunicate , that without the bishops licence appoint or keep any solemn fasts publickly or in private houses , other than by law appointed , or be wittingly present at any : thought it were in time of plague , or when divers of his neighbours are sick or troubled in conscience , or in preparation to a sacrament , or on some great occasion in noble-mens houses and chappels : he is not to be trusted to fast and pray with his own flock or friends , or come among them , lest being excommunicate he be a damn'd schismatick . the same prohibition is for holding meetings for sermons called exercises : which arch-bishop grindall was zealous to set up , ( q. was he then a schismatick ? or is the damning dangerous engine made since ? ) 41. by canon seventy thi●d if any ministers meet in any private house ( as many did by consent in 660. and 1661. ) to do any thing that any way tends to impeach the common 〈◊〉 any part of the government and discipline ( e. g. to petition king or parliament for the least reformation of it ) he is excommunicate ipso facto . 42. canon seventy fourth brings all ministers apparel under church laws , for the shape . 43. canon seventy sixth excommunicateth all that voluntarily relinquish their ministry , and use themselves as a lay-men . and man having free will , that is done voluntarily , which is done in obedience to mens command : and yet we are ruined in the world , if we will not leave our ministry , at their command . 44. it 's tedious to go over all the rest : ●end at the end of them . canon 139. excommunicateth all them that affirm that the synod is 〈◊〉 the true church of england by representation : that is , 1. all that take 〈◊〉 for the church real and not representative , lest they make 〈…〉 and all ) to be chief church-governours , while 〈…〉 but as their representatives . 2. all that say , that it is only the 〈◊〉 and not the presbyters in convocation that are the 〈…〉 church . 3. all that say that the clergy represent not king , nobles , parliaments , laiety , and that these are true parts of the 〈…〉 all these are ipso facto excommunicate . 45. the 140. canon excommunicateth them that deny the canon 〈◊〉 ligation of absent dissenters , which yet even many papists deny of 〈◊〉 canons . 46. the last canon excommunicateth all that contemn these canons , ● taking them to be the work of a company of persons that conspired against relig●●● godly men . all this huge catalogue are here excommunicate . 47. if any part of all this be schism , mr. dodwell and this man seem to teach separation from the church of england : or if the late silencing ▪ hunting and ruining of two thousand ministers were schism , and 〈◊〉 had as bishop taylor in duct . dubit . mr. hales of eaton , chillingworth , &c. say of the like , then these men make all the church of england to be in as damnable a state as adulterers and murderers . yea they make all damnable schismaticks that hold communion with the church of england ; for that is their sentence on them that communicate with schismaticks ; viz. that they are guilty of their schism . 48. they unchurch and damn the churches of corinth , gala●ia , la●dicca , ephesus , smyrna , &c. in the apostles dayes : for the scripture tells us of many guilty of schism in all these , and yet the rest communicated with them ; for the scripture speaks more of schism in a church , than of schism or separation from a church , rom. 16. 17. 1 cor. 1. 10. & 3. 3. & 11. 18. mat. 12 , 25. luke 12. 52 , 53. 1 cor. 12. 25. jam. 3. 15 , 16. and yet no one was commanded to separate from those churches ; no not from those that had heresies among them , such as denyed the resurrection , and taught fornication , and eating things offered to idols , that were drunk at the sacrament or love-feasts , nor those that had jewish schismaticks , who talkt like ours , 〈◊〉 . 15. except ye be circumcised and keep the law of moses , ye cannot be 〈◊〉 the churches were not all unchurcht and damn'd that communicated with such . yea peter was guilty of encouraging them in schism , that would not eat with the christian gentiles , but he was not unchristened by this . 49. they separate from or unchurch almost all the ancient churches in the dayes of the most famous emperours and councils : for i have manifested past doubt that they almost all did hereticate or separate from one another . it was schism either in 〈◊〉 to excommunicate the 〈◊〉 bishops , 〈…〉 them to deserve it and be excommunicate . the 〈◊〉 or dis●wning several councils , specially that of calcedon and that at const. de 〈◊〉 capital●s &c. was the schism of almost all the imperial churches ; one part condemning the other . and if either were in the right , it 〈◊〉 not the case with them : for most of the same men that went that way called the right in one princes reign , went contrary in the next , and so condemned each other round ; especially abo●t images adoration . 50. 〈◊〉 they cut off that succession of that sort of ordination , which they say must be uninterrupted , while it came down from churches excommunicated by one another , or make the proof of it impossible . 51. they separate from all the greek church at this day , as guilty of schism , both in their succession from schismaticall bishops , at constan● alex●nd . antioch , jerusalem , &c. and in their excommunicating not only the church of 〈◊〉 for a wrong cause ( the silioque ) but other churches , and for divers acts of schism . 52. they must by their principles separate from the 〈…〉 , and all the eastern and southern churches that are called 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 for councils and other churches condemn them : and they , condemn the councils of ephesus , and calceden , and all since : and they must separate from and condemn the churches of 〈…〉 , &c. be●ause they separate from others , and are separated from . 53. their principles utterly unchurch the church of rome , 1. especially because it is guilty of the greatest schism on earth , by setting up a false church form and head : 2. and because they schismatically condemn and u●church three parts of the church on earth , even all save their sect : 3. and for their many other schismatical doctrines and practices . 4. and as being condemned by the greek protestants and most churches , and separated from by the church of england which they own . 54. they separate in principles from all or near all general councils ( save the first ) as having separated from other councils and condemned them , and being again condemned by them . 55. some of them condemn and separate from all the protestant churches that have bishops , in sweden , denmark , germany , transylvania , &c. because they had not their ordination successively from bishops but presbyters at the reformation : and because they have been guilty of schism against others . 56. the principles of mr. dodwel and his associates condemn the church of england as schismatical , 1. those that claim succession from rome , whose own succession hath been oft and long interrupted , by incapacities and schisms . 2. for holding communion with those protestant churches which these men call schismaticks . 57. they condemn and separate from all the churches called presbyte●ian in france , holland , geneva , scotland formerly , and those in 〈◊〉 that have no bishops , th● some would threat kindness on them by saying that they would have them and cannot ? and why cannot they ? 58. their principles make the bishop of oxford , br●●●l , &c. schismaticks : for their dioceses are churches taken out of churches , being 〈◊〉 parts of other dioceses . 59. and they condemn all the parish churches in england as churches distinct from cathedrals : for they are all churches gathered out of churches : at first the cathedrals were the only single churches : next monasteries were gathered ; and next our parish churches . and the parish church of covent-garden , is a church taken out of a church . 60. their principles damn st. martin that separated to the death from all the bishops synods and them that were near him ( save one man ) because they perswaded maximus to use the sword against priscillian 〈◊〉 , and brought men of strict religion under suspicion of priscillianism : and sure the ruined persecuted protestants here , are more orthodox than the priscillians . and they damn gildas that told the english clergy , that he was not ex●mius christianus , that would call then ministers ; ( do they not disgrace the many churches dedicated to the memory of st. martin , if he be a damned man ? ) i doubt they damn paul and barnabas for local angry separating from each other : whatever they do by peter and barnabas for the separation blamed gal. 2. 61. if all are schismaticks that here conform not , all those called conformists are such , that conform to the words in a false sence . 62. they separate from all that obey the twentieth canon of the nicene council : and from all that obey the councils that forbid communicating with a fornicating priest : and from all that obey the councils which nullifie the episcopacy of such as are obtruded by magistrates , or not consented to by the clergy and people . and many more such . abundance more instances of their separation , and damnation , i might adde : in a word , i think their principles are , as i first said , for damning and separating from all men living ; for all men living are gulity of some sort and degree of schism , that is , of errours , principles or practices in which they culpably violate that union and concord that should be among christians and churches : every defect of christian love , and every sinful errour , is some degree of such a violation . all christians differ in as great matters as things indifferent : and no man living knoweth all things indifferent to be such : and these men distinguish not of schism , nor will take notice of the necessary distinctions given ( in the third part of the treatise of church concord , ) and solu●io cont●nut causeth pain : nor do they at all make us understand what sort of separation it is that they fasten on , but talk of separation in general , as aforesaid . lxxxvii . they seem to be themselves deceived by the papists in exposition of cyprians words de vnit. eccles. vnus est episcopatus , &c. but they themselves seem to separate from cyprian as a schismatick , and consequently from all the church that hath profest communion with him , and with all the councils and churches that joyned with him : for cyprien and his council erred by going too far from the schism and heresie of others , nulli●ying all their baptisms , ordinations and communions : and for this errour they declared against the judgment of the bishop of rome and other churches ; and they were for it condemned as schismaticks by the said bishop : and here is a far wider separation than we can be charged with . 2. and cyprians words came from the mind that was possest with these opinions , and are expressive of his inclination . 3. yet they are true and good , understood as he himself oft expounds them ; the bishop of oxford●iteth ●iteth some instances , many more are obvious , in which he opposeth the bishop of rome , saying , that none of them pretendeth to ●e a bishop of bishops ; and limiting every man to his own province , and saying that they were to give account to none but god , with much the like . but in what sence is episcopacie one ? 1. undoubtedly not as 〈◊〉 in the personal subjectum relationts : one bishop is not another ; if you should say 〈◊〉 is one , none believe that one mans relation of paternity is anothers . the relation is an accident of its own subject , as well as quantity , quality , &c. 2. nor doth any man believe that many bishops go to make up one bishop in naturals . 3. nor did ever cyprian hold or say that all bishops go to make up one politick governing aristocracie , as many go to make one senate or parliament , that hath a power of legislation and judgment by vote as one persona politica . he never owned such a humane soveraignty . but episcop●●us unus est , 1. in specie , all bishops have one office ; 2. object●●● : as the catholick church is one , whose welfare all bishops ought to seek : 3. and so sinaliter as to the ●emote end , and are bound to endeavour concord . 4. and as effects , all are from one efficient institutor . as it may be said that all official magistracy in england is one : 1. as from one king or summa potestas : 2. as described by one law , and as justices of one species : 3. as all their cities and counties and hundreds are but part of one kingdom , whose welfare all are for : 4. and as they are all bound to keep as much common concord as they can ; if any mean more , they should tell us what : if any mean that all bishops make one numerical universal government , they are heinous schismaticks , and the kingdom is sworn against their judgment : and these men da●n them in damning schismaticks . the truth is , cyprian de vnitate ecclesiae ( leaving out the papists additions ) is a good book , and worthy to be read of all ; and take cyprian's description of the episcopacy of the church which we must unite with , and the nature of that union , and we would rejoyce in such . but if cyprian had lived to see either arians or donatists the greater number , or any sect after call themselves the church because that princes set them up , and had seen them depose chrysostome and such other , doubtless he would never have pleaded the unity of episcopacy for this , but have judged as he did in the case of martial and basilides ; nor did he ever plead for an universal humane soveraignty . lxxxviii . if we are damned schismaticks , i can imagine no pretended manner of separation in which our schism consists , but first , either local as such . 2. or mental , as such . 3. or local , caused by mental . if local , as such be it : all christians are schismaticks , for being locally separated from others , and absent from all churches and places save one . if mental separation be it , either all mental division is such , or but some only ; if all , then all mortall men are schismaticks , as differing in a multitude of things from others ; if it be not all , what is it ? is it all difference in the essentials of christianity ? we grant it ; and we are charg'd with no such thing . is it all difference in the integrals or accid●nts ? so do all 〈◊〉 that are not perfect . is it all 〈◊〉 of love , or all vncharitableness to one another ? all on earth have some degree of it ; and those are likest to have most , that do as the bishops did against the priscillianists , bring godly people under reproach , on pretence of opposing heresie ; or that seek the silencing , imprisonment , banishment or ruine of men as faithful as themselves : for our parts , we profess it our great duty , to love all men as men , all christians as christians , all godly men as godly , all magistrates as magistrates , &c. is it for our separating in mind from any principles specie necessary to communion in the church universal , or single churches ? let it be opened what those principles be : we own all 〈◊〉 , and all ministry of gods institution , and all his church ordinances : we own bishops over their flocks , let them be never so large , so they be capable of the work and end , and alter not the true species ; and submit to any that shall by the word admonish pastors of many churches of their duty , or 〈◊〉 , or seek their good . nor do we refuse obedience to any humane 〈…〉 up by princes , to do nothing against christs laws , nor nothing 〈…〉 is in princes power in the accident 〈…〉 is it because we disown any nur●erical rulers ? we own the king and 〈◊〉 magistrates ; we own all that we can understand to be true pas●o●s ; and i● we are in doubt of their calling , we resist them not , unless obeying 〈◊〉 before them be resistance : but our accusers , loudly profess , that 〈◊〉 are not to be owned ; and if they go on the ground , that he hath 〈◊〉 the prince is for , we would know , whether that hold in tur●y , in 〈◊〉 spain , france , or only in england , or where ? if it be where 〈◊〉 o●thodox , do they make all the people judges of their princes 〈◊〉 and we would know , whether every bishops and priests right , 〈◊〉 a tr●e minister , called of god , and set over us , be necessary to 〈…〉 or known by all the people ? if it be , wo to us , that ever such men 〈◊〉 set over us , whose right we cannot know : what ab●ndance of things 〈◊〉 make a bishops or priests right known ! 1. that he hath capable sufficiency . 2. that he is a just bishop , that 's chosen by the king , the dean and chapter obedi●●tly 〈◊〉 , & that the clergy's and peoples consent is unnecessary . 3. that the diocesan 〈◊〉 ( over multitudes of churches without any subordinate bishop ) is of christ , or lawful . 4. that their work , according to the ca●● , is lawful . 5. that all our patrons have right to chuse patiors for all the 〈◊〉 . 6. that they are true pas●ors over them that 〈◊〉 not . 7. that if they prove worse far than martial and 〈◊〉 , and be owned by the bishops as they were , the people may not forsake them ( 〈…〉 , ) which saith cypr●ian 〈◊〉 most power to chuse or refuse . is every christian bound on pain of damnation to 〈◊〉 all these , and then to c●amine and ●idge bishops and priests accordingly ? or if they mistake one or more mens commission , do they therefore separate from the catholick church ? if so , what a case was the east in by the difference between chrysost●●e and his competitors ? 〈◊〉 and i●natius and hundreds others ? and france , about the archbishops of rh●●●s , when he was put out that deposed 〈◊〉 4. and when an infant was put in , and oft besides ? what if the alexandrians , when 〈◊〉 was banis●ed by constantine himself , were half for him , and half against him ? or basil at caesarea was put down , and hundreds more ; or when t●codos●●s first and second and mar●●an , and valen●●●●an , and zeno and 〈◊〉 and abundance more , set up and puli'd down , and set up again ●g●inst each other ? what , i say , if the people now mistooke who had the best title ? is this separating from the catholick church ? when the inte●●im cast out hundreds in germany ; when lud●●ie●s cast out multitudes in the pal●●inate , and half the people stuck to the ejected , persecuted pastor , and the rest to the magistrates choice , which of them separated from the universal church ? is every priest the vniversal church , or an essential part of it ? then it dyeth when he dyeth , and apostatizeth when he doth . how many ages in above 23 duplicates or schisms , was the world uncertain which was the true pope ? suppose , e.g. arthur jackson , edmund calamy , and many such were placed in their incumbency , by the bishops , patrons and parish consent , according to the law of christ and the land , and by a new act of uniformity they be all turned out , the flock not consenting , nor any bishop accusing , trying or deposing them ( save in legislation , ) and some of the parish think this dissolveth not their relation to him , and they cleave to him as before , without any change save of place and tythes , and others forsake such a one , and follow the magistrates choice , may not both these be still of the catho●ick church ? if not , i know where the old canons laid the charge and danger . it 's wonderful selfishness in those men , that if they can but get into the seat , take it for granted , that all must own their right on pain of damnation . and what if in any such land , the prince change his mind , or the next differ , and put down all these same men , and set up such as differ fro● them more than we do , is it damning schism for any of their people still to adhere to them ? lxxxix . do you find that mr. dodwel , dr. saywel , dr. sher●●● , 〈◊〉 any of these men , do , in palpit and press , ingenuously tell the people the truth of the case , when they liken men as schismaticks to murderers 〈◊〉 danger ? did you ever hear them say , [ the canon , which is the 〈◊〉 voice and law , doth excommunicate you all that do own your opinions against conformity , and commandeth us not to admit you to the sacrament , and yet to pronounce your excommunication for not taking it : we confess they have been holy and learned men that have thought many things imposed unlawful ; and therefore we wonder not if it be not in your power to change your judgment , no more th●● to be perfect in knowledge ; and we confess if you are unjustly excommu●●cated , or any of the things made necessary to communion be against 〈◊〉 , then 〈◊〉 is the church that is guilty of schism , but because this is not so , we 〈…〉 , even of separating from the vniversal church , and from 〈◊〉 . xc . i do admire , that never any one of them would be prevail'd wi●● to prove the canons excommunications ipso facto lawful , when even papists have scorn'd all such doings ; and when the learneds● of all their own admired men , that were for comprimising matters with rome , even mar. ant. de dom. spalatensis de r●● . eccl. hath so considently , copiously and strenuously damn'd it : christ would have none excommuni●ate , whatever the crime be , without impenitency after due admonition for r●pentance , but these canons ipso facto condemn and excommunicate godly men , without ever admonishing them , or calling them to repent , or hearing or seeing them : nothing is necessary but the proof of the fact , and then the law is instead of a judge ; and to oblige the people to avoid them , it must be published . if this and all things named in the first plea ●●r peace , 〈◊〉 , studying and disputing is not the way to know what is sinf●l . xci . but , saith the resolver , [ 〈…〉 to be a member of two separate and oppos●●e churches , is 〈…〉 ourselves . ] ans. but i had hoped your catechized boyes had known , 1. that one body hath many parts . 2. that particular churches are parts of this body , as corporations are of the kingdom . 3. that all the parts are imperfect , and made up of none but sinners . 4. that every good man is partly had , and so contrary to himself . 5. that churches may be so far separate as to be distinct , and yet not so far as to be contrary or opposite . 6. that they may be opposite in accidents and integrals , that are one in speech in essen●●als . 7. that a man may own several churches , and communicate with them for that which they agree in , and yet not own both , ( or ●ither perhap● ) 〈…〉 which they are opposite in . 8. that there being somewhat op●●● 〈…〉 churches on earth , you damn your selves for communi●●●● with them . 9. that a man may have more communion with the church which he locally separateth from , even for sin , than with that which 〈◊〉 present with . 〈◊〉 a congregation or nation of men of eminent sanctity and order , 〈◊〉 doctrine and worship , may , by humane frailty take some one false●●● or un●ertain thing to be necessary to ministry or communion ( as they 〈◊〉 some churches unhappily of late reject all that own not the antiquity of the heb●ew points ) i cannot have local communion with that church , for they will not receive me , unless i subscribe either a falshood , ( or that which 〈◊〉 false ; ) but yet i highly honour and love them , and have mental catholick communion with them , when perhaps necessity may make me lo●●lly join with a church of far worse men and order , that will impose no 〈◊〉 on me . 10. and i would advise these men , did they not despise 〈◊〉 advice , for the church of englands sake , and their own , to retract their errours , and not lay such a snare before the people . should you say in the pulpit , [ if the church be guilty of any schism by her impositions , ( oft●●● 〈◊〉 excommunications and silencing of christs , ministers , and afflicting good 〈…〉 just cause , then i , and all that communicate with it and me , com●●●●ate in the guilt of schism , and are all in as much danger of damnation by 〈…〉 ad●●erers and murderers ] tell not your hearers this , for if you do , some will think you bid them separate or be damned , and only make a doubt whether most men have noses or not . xcii . qu. but is not the inference true ? ans. no , it 's false : there are twenty cases in which 1. one may be 〈◊〉 of schism and not be a schismatick , as denominated from what predo●●●ateth : 2. and as many in which he is not at all guilty that communicateth with the guilty . and l●t the world ( that is sober and awake ) judge now whether these men or we be the greater schismaticks , and which more condemneth or separateth from the church of england . we say that all churches have some degree of schism , and so hath the church of england , as it hath imperfection , errour and sin ; but that it is not therefore no church , nor is it unlawful to communicate with it ; all christians and churches must not be separated from that are guilty of some degree of schism . 〈◊〉 will turn these serious matters into jest , and say , as dr. say●● , that they will receive greeks , 〈◊〉 , &c. that come to their com●●●● , his serious readers will tell him , that so will most sects receive those that approve of their communion and come to them : joyning with you signifyeth that they are of your way therein ; but will you go to their churches and communicate with them ? you will receive the damned schismaticks if they come to you , when yet you make it damnable to joyn in their meetings with them . this quibbling beseems not grave men in great matters . to conclude , reader , god having allowed more legislative power to men in things secular than in religion , i may say this case is like ours in debate . i. some judges and lawyers say , that the oath of allegiance makes a subject in this kingdom ; that the renouncing or violating it by treason , or rebellion , or deserting the kingdom , overthrows the relation . but that other particular faults or quarrels against neighbours , justices , judges , yea the king himself , are punishable according to the laws , b●t are not all rebellion , nor dissolve subjection , nor oblige the subjects to renounce civil converse with each other ; though some contempt and obstinacy may outlaw them . such is our judgment of church relation and communion , which i need not rehearse . ii. suppose a fect of lawyers and judges arise , that say , no men are the kings subjects , but are rebels , that break any of his laws , that shoot not in long bows , that bury not their dead in woollen , that swear prophanely , that eat flesh in lent unlicensed , that have any unjust law-suit , that wrong any neighbour , that oppress any poor man , all these are rebels ; yea all that plead opposite causes at the bar , and all judges that judge contrary to one another , and all that misunderstand any point of law and practice accordingly , and all that besides the oath of allegiance do constitute marriages , families , schools , societyes by any other covenants of their own , and all that are of different cities and companies , parts of the kingdom , or all whose justices , mayors , sheriffs , &c. differ from one another in any point of law and practice : or all that obey not every constable and justice ; or that go to divers justices in the same precincts , or that go from one justice to another to avoid unrighteous judgment , or that go from the physician of the place for health , and from the schoolmaster of the town for greater edification , or that travel beyond sea for knowledge , yea all that understand not every word in the law , that may concern them : if any say , none of these are the kings subjects , but rebels , opposite to him and one another , and deserve to be all hang'd as murderers , and so are all that have communion with them ; quaere , 1. whether these men are for the unity of england ? 2. and are friends to the king that deprive him of all his subjects ; as much as those that would have him have no subjects , that be not of the same age , stature , complexion and wit 3. and whether they are friends to mankind ? 4. and whether they condemn not themselves if they live not as anchorets , out of humane society . 5. and whether that nation be not by infatuation prepared for destruction that would believe them , and would hate , scorn and ruine them that are of the first mentioned opinion , according to the saying , quos perdere vult jupiter , hos dementat . as to the more dangerous doctrine now threatning this land , that would subject england to a foreign jurisdiction , on pretence of a necessity of either an universal church monarch , or church-parliament senate or council , or of all the church on earth represented by patriarchs or metropolitans , or that plead for subjection to them , under the name of communion , they require a distinct answer . but dr. is. barrow , and mr. beverley's catholick catechism , have effectually done it . finis . several tracts, by the ever memorable mr. john hales of eaton coll. &c. viz. i. of the sacrament of the lord's supper. ii. paraphrase on st. matthew's gospel. iii. of the power of the keys. iv. of schism and schismaticks, (never before printed by the original copy.) v. miscellanies hales, john, 1584-1656. 1677 approx. 193 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 130 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a70260 wing h276a wing h280 estc r14263 99834817 99834817 39371 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a70260) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 39371) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 599:12 or 1948:5) several tracts, by the ever memorable mr. john hales of eaton coll. &c. viz. i. of the sacrament of the lord's supper. ii. paraphrase on st. matthew's gospel. iii. of the power of the keys. iv. of schism and schismaticks, (never before printed by the original copy.) v. miscellanies hales, john, 1584-1656. hales, john, 1584-1656. tract concerning sin against the holy ghost. hales, john, 1584-1656. tract concerning schisme. [4], 38, [2], 39-252 p. : port. s.n.], [london : printed in the year, 1677. with engraved frontispiece. "a tract concerning the sin against the holy ghost" (also apparently issued separately; cf. wing h280) has separate dated title page and pagination; register is continuous; "a tract concerning the sacrament of the lords supper", "a paraphrase on s. matthew's gospel", "a tract concerning the keys and auricular confession", "a tract concerning schism and schismaticks", and "miscellanies" have separate dated title pages (all with "london" in imprint); continuous register and pagination. imperfect: t.p. of "a tract concerning the sin against the holy ghost" torn out of proper position (stub remains) and another copy bound in preceding general t.p. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england. bible. -n.t. -matthew -commentaries -early works to 1800. lord's supper -early works to 1800. schism -early works to 1800. 2005-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-07 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-07 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vera effigies doctissimi viri d. iohannes hales colleg. eton. socii et eccles. colleg. windesoriensis canonici . several tracts , by the ever memorable mr. john hales of eaton coll. &c. viz. i. of the sacrament of the lord's supper . ii. paraphrase on st. matthew's gospel . iii. of the power of the keys . iv. of schism and schismaticks , ( never before printed by the original copy . ) v. miscellanies . printed in the year , 1677. a tract concerning the sin against the holy ghost . by the ever memorable mr. john hales , of eton colledge , &c. london , printed for john blyth , at mr playfords shop in the temple , 1677. a tract concerning the sin against the holy ghost . many have written of the sin against the holy ghost , and in defining or describing of it , follow their own zealous conceits , and not the canon of holy scriptures . the more dreadful the sin is , the more fearful we must be , in charging it upon any special crime , or particular person . in defining a sin of so heynous a nature , direct and evident proof from scripture is requisite . it is not enough to consider , ( as many do ) what sins are most desperate and deadly , and therefore to conclude such sins are against the holy ghost . thus indeed the schoolmen have done , who have made six differences of this sin , v. in fine . without any ground or warrant from scripture for so doing . and bellarmine is so liberal in bestowing on such as he calls hereticks , that his opinion is , that a man can scarce be a learned protestant , without committing the sin against the holy ghost . neither are the papists the only men that are mistaken about this sin : but too many divines of the reformed churches , have started aside from the scripture , and have given us such intricate and contradictory definitions of this sin , as tend only to the perplexing the tender consciences of weak christians . to make good this censure , i will briefly set down so much touching this sin , as i conceive is warranted by the word of god , and humbly submit to the judgment of the learned . the blasphemy against the holy ghost , was an evil speaking of , or slandering of the miracles which our saviour did , by those , who though they were convinced by the miracles , to believe that such works could not be done , but by the power of god , yet they did malitiously say , they were wrought by the power of the devil . in this definition , these points are observable . 1. i forbear to call it the sin against the holy ghost , but the blasphemy ; for though every blasphemy be a sin in general , yet our saviour christ , terms it the blasphemy . and the evangelists do all agree , to give it the same term : and 't is now here in holy scripture called the sin against the holy ghost ; and yet it appears both in st. mathew and st. mark , that there was just occasion offered to our saviour to call it so ; where he compares it with the sin against the son of man ; but he forbears to call it any thing , but the blasphemy ; thereby , no doubt , to teach us , it consisteth only in cursed speaking and blaspheming . a serious consideration of this point , may teach us so much moderation , as to confine our selves to that term which our saviour in the three evangelists hath prescribed unto us . i cannot find that any man that hath writ upon this argument , hath made any observation , or noted this phrase and term used by the evangelists , in pronouncing the dreadful sentence of our saviour against the blasphemy of the holy ghost , i will cite these texts , where it is named , math. 12. 31. mark 3. 28 ▪ luke ▪ 12 ▪ 10. 2. a second observation is , that blasphemy is a speaking against another , as both st. mathew and st. luke expound the word , for in the original , it is a blasting the fame , or blaming of another ; for from the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 both the french nation and our english by contraction have made the word blame . 3. to pass from the name to the thing it self , we may observe by the coherence of the texts , that blasphemy against the holy ghost , was spoken of by our saviour , concerning the scribes and pharisees . it was ( saith st. mark ) because the pharisees said , he had an unclean spirit , and that he cast our devils by belzebub , &c. this speech of the pharisees , whereby they slandered his miracles , wrought by the power of the holy ghost , is properly the blasphemy against the holy ghost . how transcendent a crime it was , to traduce that power by which our saviour wrought his miracles , may appear , from the end for which these miracles were wrought ; which was , to prove to the people that saw them , that he was the messias ; which is evident from the places of scripture , wherein he appealed to his works , 10 joh. 37. 38. 14. joh. 11. 11 math. 4. 4. joh. 29. these and other places shew , that the working of miracles , was an act of the most glorious manifestation of the power of god , by which at the first view , the simplest people were led by their outward sense , to the great mystery of inward faith in christ their redeemer . therefore , for those men that were eye-witnesses of those miracles which did make them know that christ was a teacher come from god , to blaspheme that power , by which these miracles were wrought , and to say they were done by the help of the devil , was the most spightful and malicious slander that could be invented ; for thereby they attempted , as much as in them lay , to destroy the very principles of faith , and to prevent the very first propagation of the gospel , to the universal mischief of all mankind . and though these pharisees were no christians , and therefore could not fall away from faith , which they never had , yet they did know and believe that christ was a teacher come from god ; for so our saviour tells them , 7 joh. 28. ye both know me , and whence i am . they did not believe him as a saviour , but as a great prophet from god ; ( as the mahometans do at this very day ) they trusted to be saved by their law , and because he taught such things as did abrogate their law , in which they so much gloried , they were so malicious to his doctrine , which they did not believe , that they spoke evil of his miracles which they did believe ; least the people by approving his miracles , should believe his doctrine . 4. observe , that it s said to be blasphemy against the holy ghost , because , by the holy ghost , the miracles were wrought math. 12 28. 1 cor 12. 10. 5. the blasphemy against the son of man was , when men considered christ as a mere man , and did disgracefully tax his conversation , by saying , behold a glutton , a bibber of wine , a friend to publicans and sinners . but the blasphemy against the holy ghost , was , when men beholding christs miracles , did enviously ascribe them to the devil , which they knew and believed to be done by gods power . 6. the texts formerly cited out of the three evangelists , being all the places wherein the blasphemy against the holy ghost is named ; we cannot find by them , that we have any safe rule to conclude , that any but the scribes and pharisees , and their confederates , committed that sin . i dare not say , that judas , julian the apostate , or simon magus , or those that stoned stephen , were guilty thereof . 7. the apostles have not in any of their epistles once mentioned this blasphemy , and yet they were most careful and frequent in exhortations from all sorts of sin : it were much therefore if they should omit or forget such a fearful crime , without often and precise admonishing to beware of it . and though negative proofs from scripture , are not demonstrative , yet the general silence of the apostles , may at least help to infer a probability , that the blasphemy against the holy ghost , is not committable by any christian , which lived not in the time of our saviour . as for those texts in the sixth and tenth chapter to the hebrews , and in 1 john 5. 16. ( which by late divines are ▪ expounded of the sin against the holy ghost ) i do not find that the ancient fathers did so understand them , excepting only st. austine , who so interprets that one place in st. john , that all men confess him to be in an error . there be three texts in the epistles , wherein although the blasphemy against the holy ghost be not named , yet , most think , it is intended and meant . and bellarmine confuting st. austin's opinion , who held , that final impenitency was the sin against the holy ghost ) affirms , that it seems the three texts in the epistles , are spoken of that sin ; and yet this great cardinal forgetting what he had said in the same chapter contradicts himself , and shews how that those three places are not to be interpreted of that sin . i will cite the texts , and then his interpretation of them , according to the exposition of st. ambrose , chrysostom , hierom , and other fathers , as he saith . the first is heb. 6. it is impossible , &c. the apostle here speaks only of repentance , which did go before baptisme , for so chrysostome and ambrose , &c. expound it ; which the apostle intimates in these words . which were once enlightened , that is , baptized , for anciently , to be illuminated , signified to be baptized . secondly , in these words ( to renew again ) for we are properly renewed in baptisme . thirdly , in these ( crucifying the son of god afresh ) for when we are baptized , we are conformed to the likeness of his death , 6 rom. and as christ was only once crucified , so also we are only once baptized ; and he that will be again baptized , should again crucifie to himself ghrist . let me add this , that in the verses next before this text , the apostle speaks of the foundation of repentance , and the doctrine of baptisme . and in this text , our new translation followeth beza ( who hath varied from the original , by putting the conditional si , if , instead of the copulative et , and , and by adding the causal ut. ) so that whereas beza and our translation is , si prolabantur ut crucifigant , the greek , and vulgar latine is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , prolapsi sunt crucifigentes ; for the word doth not signify to fall away , but to fall casually or negligently , so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 galat 6. is translated fault , but not falling away . the second text is , hebrews 10. 26. for if we sin willingly or wilfully , after we have received the knowledge of the truth , there remains no more sacrifice for sin . answer , i say with chrysostom , ambrose , and other fathers ; the sence is , we must not expect another christ to dye for us , or that he that dyed once , should come again to dye for us . the third text , 1 joh 5. 16. there is a sin unto death : i do not say ye shall pray for it ; st. hierom saith , that nothing else is here meant , but that a prayer for a sin unto death , is very hardly or difficultly heard ; and this seems to be the truest sense of this place : for st. john saith , in the verse immediately before , we know we have the petitions we desire of him ; therefore least we should think this to hold true in all petitions even for others ▪ he adds ▪ if any man see his brother sin a sin , which is not unto death , he shall ask , &c. he shall ask , that is , let him ask with confidence , for he shall obtain ; but if it be a sin unto death , that is , a great sin , such an one as is not ordinarily pardoned , but punished with death : i do not say , ye shall pray for it , that is i dare not promise that you shall easily obtain , and therefore i do not say that you shall pray for it , that is , with that confidence of obtaining ; for often in such cases , god doth nothear the prayers of his saints ; as god saith , jer. 7. 16. if these expositions upon the former texts be sound , the definition of the sin against the holy ghost , cannot be grounded upon all or any of them : for as it is not nameed , so it is not meant in any of them ; but if they seem to any to be unsound , let him bring better and more agreeable to the literal meaning and sence , coherence and scope of the text , and i shall gladly learn. it seems a probable exposition of the first place , heb. 6. that a learned divine , who produceth this text for proof of his definition of the sin against the holy ghost , doth confess against himself , that the apostle in this place denieth a second baptisme , where he speaketh of repentance , because they are mentioned together in the same place , and have some affinity and correspondence . as for the second text , heb. 10. i must say , that if st. paul in this place , meant the sin against the holy ghost , that then this were the only desperate text in the whole bible , for what man is there that sins not willingly ; for so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly signifies : beza translates it ultro , the vulgar latine , voluntariè , or willingly , not wilfully , or obstinately . it is but a miserable shift , when st. paul saith , if we sin willingly , for mr calvin to tell us , that the text doth not mean every willing sin , but only a malitious resisting of the truth . could not st. paul , as easily as mr calvin , have said , if we sin malitiously , as say , if we sin willingly ? my comfort is , that if the text be advisedly considered , there is no such thing as the sin against the holy ghost , or any other desperate conclusion , to be found in the text ; the scope of the precedent verses do evidently expound the apostles meaning to be this , to let the jews know , that the case was not now with them , as it was under the law ; for under the law they had daily sacrifice for sin , but now under the gospel they had but one sacrifice , once for all ; every priest standeth daily ministring and offering often times the same sacrifice , but this man after he had offered one sacrifice , for ever sate down at the right hand of god , as it is , verse 11. of that chapter , which may serve for a comment upon the verse now in question . and it is worth our noting , that the text doth not say , if we sin wilfully , there is no sacrifice for sin ; this had been an hard saying indeed ; but the words are , there remains no more sacrifice for sin : there is some comfortable difference , i hope , between these two propositions ; there is no sacrifice , and there remains no more sacrafice for sin : so that if we do not believe in that one sacrifice , as sufficient , but look every day for some new sacrifice for every new sin , we must expect nothing but judgment . as to the third place , 1 ioh. 5. 16. many would conclude , there is a sin for which we may not pray ; first , because it is irremissable , and this they think must needs be the sin against the holy ghost , meant by st. iohn , their best argument is , iohn's not saying we should pray , is a saying we should not pray ; his silence to them is prohibition . this is bad grammar , and worse logick . for we find , that st. stephen prayed for them that stoned him , and yet told them they resisted the holy ghost . and st. peter exhorted simon magus to repentance , and yet both he and those that stoned stephen , are commonly reputed sinners against the holy ghost . st. ambrose is of that charitable opinion , that he thinks the sin against the holy ghost may be pardoned by repentance , because the people of the iews , that had said of christ , that he cast out devils by belzebub , afterwards at the preaching of st. peter , are said to be converted , acts 2. st. austine in a retract concludes , we must despair of no man , no not of the wickedest , as long as he liveth ; and we safely pray for him , of whom we don't despair . for though it be expresly said , that the blasphemy against the holy ghost shall not be forgiven , yet these words may justly receive a qualification , if we will but allow the same mitigation of these words , which all men confess we must needs allow to the precedent words in the same verse , to which these have relation ; where it is said generally , all sins , and all blasphemies shall be forgiven , it cannot be meant of all sins always , and to all men , for then no sin could be damnable , but the sin against the holy ghost , which is most false ; and therefore the meaning must be , all sins shall be forgiven ordinarily , and for the most part ; so on the contrary , blasphemy against the holy ghost shall not ordinarily , but hardly be forgiven . even those who are most strict to maintain the sin against the holy ghost , to be unpardonable , will yet acknowledge , that some times in scripture , impossibility is used to note a difficulty , and those things are spoken indefinitely to all , which belong but to a part only . thus the difficulty of a rich mans entering into the kingdome of heaven , is presented to us by our saviour , under the similitude of an impossibility . having dispatch'd these texts of scripture which do either name , or are thought to concern , the sin against the holy ghost , it remains to examine those common definitions of this sin which are now current ; though different in the terms by which they define it ; some call it a total or final falling away from faith , or a wilful apostacy , or a malicious resisting of the truth ; yet when they come to explain their meaning , the difference among them is not considerable . i shall chiefly apply my self to mr calvin's definition , because his judgment hath gained the greatest reputation among the multitude ; as also , for that he himself promises such a true definition , as shall easily , by it self overthrow all the rest . in his institut . lib. 3. chap. 3. he saith , they sin against the holy ghost , qui divinae veritati ( cujus fulgore sic perstringuntur ut ignorantiam causari nequeunt ) tamen destinata malitia resistunt , in hoc tantum , ut resistant . arminius also useth mr calvins words . the rhetorical parenthesis , which might well have been spared in a definition , being reduced to plain and brief terms ; this definition of calvin may be thus englished , they sin against the holy ghost , who of determined malice , resist the known truth of god , to the end only to resist . in this mr calvin doth not define what the sin is , but who they are that commit it ; whereas by the rules of logick , concretes admit of no definition , but only abstracts . but taking the definition as it is , it consists principally upon these three terms . first , truth ; secondly , known ; thirdly , resisted ; or a resisting of the known truth . the words being general and doubtful , we will consider them singly . first , if by the truth mr calvin understands the word of god , or the whole doctrine revealed in the scriptures , then the sense of this term will be too large : for even the pharisees which spoke against the holy ghost , did not resist the whole truth of god in the scripture , for they believed in the law of moses , and had confidence to be saved by the keeping of it . and in defence of that law , ( as they thought ) they did blaspheme the holy ghost . therefore properly by the truth of god , mr calvin must confine his meaning to the truth of the gospel or doctrine of faith , for so both he himself and others expound themselves , by terming the sin against the holy ghost , a falling away , or turning away from faith , or apostacy . secondly , by this word known , mr calvin must mean belief , for faith is properly by believing , not knowing the truth . thirdly , the word , resisting , must mean unbelieving : for if receiving of the truth be by belief , then resisting of the truth must be●● unbelief . and indeed mr. calvin explains himself in the same chapter , saying , there is no place for pardon where knowledge is joyned with unbelief , non esse veniae locum , &c. so then by this definition , to resist the known truth , is all one , as if mr calvin had said in proper terms , for a man at once to unbelieve that which he doth believe ; which two things it is impossible to do together ? and if they be not together , there can be no resistance . it is true , that for some reasons , a man may be brought , not to believe that which he formerly believed . this cannotbe in an instant , but successively unbelief comes in the place of belief . and this may not be called a resisting , for that all resistance consists in a violence between two at the least ; but where two succeed one another , and are never together , it cannot possibly be . i confess a man may resist the truth , when it is a truth , in it self only , or in the understanding of some other ; but to resist the truth which is known , and believed by the resister himself , is a direct contradiction ; for the nature of truth is such , that if the understanding apprehend it for truth , it cannot but assent unto it . no man can force himself to believe what he lists , or when he lists . sometimes a man knows not what to believe , but finds a suspension of his faith , or trepidation of his understanding , not knowing which way to turn . this cannot be called a resisting of the truth , when the truth is not known , but doubted of . again , some truths there be , though they be assented to by the understanding for truths , yet they are not desired as good ; for truth is one degree nearer the soul of man than goodness . the pharisees did apprehend the miracles of our saviour as true , but not as good ; because they tended to the derogation of their law , which they esteemed a better truth . and for this cause , they blasphemed that truth , which in their hearts they believed for truth . for the truth of words , or speech , is , ( as the schools say ) nothing else but the sign of truth , not truth it self ; for truth it self is seated in the understanding , and not in the speech . that truth which the understanding assents to , the speech may affirm to be false ; there are many things believed in deed , which are denied in word : but such a denial is not resisting , but only making shew of resisting , the truth ; for resistance must be in the same place where truth is ; truth being seated in the understanding , resistance must be placed there also ; the understanding can resist no truth , but by unbelieving of it . if mr calvin had intended of the truth only in word , he had come one step nearer to the truth of scripture , but he was not so happy in the expression of his meaning : nay his terms of incredulity , apostacy , falling away , &c. relate to a real , not verbal , apostacy , and unbelief . it remains then to my understanding , that mr calvin makes the resistance of the truth to be a not believing of what we do believe ; which being a contradiction , he defines the sin against the holy ghost , to be such a sin , as no man possibly can commit . and yet in the other extream , in expounding his own definition , he makes it such a sin , as no man living but commits ; for by his doctrine , ( as i take it ) any sin may be the sin against the holy ghost . his words are these , quorum convicta est conscientia verbum dei esse quod repudiant & impugnant , impugnare tamen non desistant , ill● in spiritum blasphemari dicuntur . what man is there that doth not daily , in some point or other , for sake the word of god , and ceases not to impugne it , and is convinced thereof in his conscience : i know mr calvin was far from thinking , that st. paul , did sin against the holy ghost , and yet st. paul it seems was convinced in his conscience , that it was the word of god he fought against , and yet ceased not to fight against it , when he saith , he delighted in the law of god , yet another law warring against the law of his mind , brought him into captivity of the law of sin. what dangerous consequences weak consciences may draw to themselves , out of this unbridled , unlimited proposition of mr calvins , let others judge . there is a just cause i. presume to except against mr galvin , and all others , who in this concurr with him , to omit the term of blasphemy in their definitions ; for this is perpetually observed by our saviour in his speech concerning this sin , by the evangelists with one consent : but instead of the word blasphemy , he hath brought in the word , resist , for a genus of this sin ; but by what authority i know not ; i cannot find it , or the equivalent to it , in any of these places , which are thought to touch this sin i find only falling away mentioned , heb. 6. which phrase is used by mr calvin , for resisting ; whereas falling away , and resisting , are no more alike , than fighting and runing away , which are little less than contraries . the last point i shall touch in mr calvins definition , is , where he saith , the sinners against the holy ghost resist , to the end only that they may resist ; and yet withall he tells , they resist out of a determinate malice . if they resist out of malice , then the end for which they resist , is for the satisfaction of their malice . the pharisees here condemned by our saviour , had an other end than bare resisting . the defence of the law of moses , was the end for which they blasphemed , and not any pleasure they could have in the bare and simple act of resistance . we find three old opinions , concerning the sin against the holy ghost , but they were long since exploded ; i will but only name them . origen thought , all sins committed after baptisme , were sins against the holy ghost : his reason was only a witless conceit of his own , that god the father was in all things , the son only in all reasonable creatures , the holy ghost in all regenerate men. therefore when men sin against the divine person , which is in them , if they be heathen , they sin against god the father , or son ; if they be christians , they sin against god the holy gost ; but this opinion is false . the novatian hereticks agreed with origen in opinion , for they denied remission of sins to any that fell , thinking all falls of christians to be sins against the holy ghost ; but this opinion is false ; else all sins were unpardonable to christians . yet we find st. paul , to remit the sins of the incestuous corinthian . our saviour also chargeth the pharisees with this , who were no christians . st. austin thought final impenitency to be the sin against the holy ghost ; but final impenitency is no blasphemy , but only a general circumstance , that may accompany any sin : besides , our saviour intends , that this sin may be found in this life . and the pharisees were alive when they were accused of it pet. lumbard , and tho. aquinas , thought sins of malice , to be sins against the holy ghost , and sins of infirmity against the father , and sins of ignorance against the son. this opinion is false , because the sin against the holy ghost , must be a sin of some certain blasphemy , but malice is no certain sin , but a general , and 't is not always a blasphemy . the six differences the schoolmen make of the sin against the holy ghost , are these ; 1. envying of our brothers graces ; 2. impugning of the known truth ; 3. desperation ; 4. obstinacy ; 5. presumption ; 6. final impenitency . in this determination of the point of blasphemy against the holy ghost , and the inquiry made into mr calvins and others new definition ; i hope i have delivered nothing contrary to the articles of the church of england . finis . a tract concerning the sacrament of the lords supper . by the ever memorable mr. john hales , of eaton-colledge , &c. printed , 1677. a tract on the sacrament of the lords supper . kind sir , in perusal of your letters ▪ together with the schedule inclosed , no circumstance did so much move me as this , that so ordinary points as are discust there , and that in a bare and ordinary manner , should amuse either your self or any man else , that pretends to ordinary knowledge in controversies in christian religion . for the points therein discust are no other than the subject of every common pamphlet , and sufficiently known ( that i may so say ) in every barbers shop . yet because you require my opinion of matters there in question , i willingly afford it you , though i fear i shall more amuse you with telling you the truth , than the disputants there did , by abusing you with error . for the plain and necessary ( though perhaps unwelcome ) truth is , that in the greater part of the dispute , both parties much mistook themselves , and that fell out which is in the cōmon proverb , sc . whilst the one milks the ram , the other holds under the sieve . that you may see this truth with your eyes , i divide your whole dispute into two heads ; the one concerning the eucharist , the other concerning the churches mistaking it self about fundamentals . for the first , it consisteth of two parts ; of a proposition , and of a reply : the proposition expresses ( at least he that made it intended it so to do , though he mistakes ) the doctrine of the reformed churches , concerning the presence of christ in the eucharist . the reply doth the like for the church of rome in the same argument . now that you may see how indifferently i walk , i will open the mistakes of both parties , that so the truth of the thing it self ( being unclouded of errors ) may the more clearly shine forth . the first mistake common to both is , that they ground themselves much upon the words of consecration , as they are called , and suppose , that upon the pronouncing of those words , something befalls that action , which otherwise would not ; and that without those words the action were lame . sir , i must confess my ignorance unto you . i find no ground for the necessity of this doing . our saviour instituting that holy ceremony , commands us to do what he did , leaves us no precept of saying any words ; neither will it be made appear , that either the blessed apostles , or primitive christians had any such custom : nay the contrary will be made probably to appear out of some of the antientest writings of the churches ceremonials . our saviour indeed used the words , but it was to express what his meaning was ; had he barely acted the thing , without expressing himself by some such form of words , we could never have known what it was he did . but what necessity is there now of so doing ? for when the congregation is met together , to the breaking of bread and prayer , and see bread and wine upon the communion table , is there any man can doubt of the meaning of it , although the canon be not read ? it was the farther solemnizing , and beautifying that holy action which brought the canon in ; and not an opinion of adding any thing to the substance of the action . for that the words were used by our saviour to work any thing upon the bread and wine , can never out of scripture or reason be deduced ; and beyond these two , i have no ground for my religion , neither in substance nor in ceremony . the main foundation that upholds the necessity of this form of action now in use , is church-custom and church-error . now for that topique place of church-custom , it is generally too much abused : for whereas naturally the necessity of the thing ought to give warrant to the practice of the church ; i know not by what device matters are turned about , and the customary practice of the church is alledged to prove the necessity of the thing ; as if things had received their original from the church-authority , and not as the truth is , from an higher hand . as for the churches error , on which i told you this form of action is founded , it consists in the uncautelous taking up an unsound ungrounded conclusion of the fathers for a religious maxim. st. ambrose , i trow , was he that said it , and posterity hath too generally applauded it , accedat verbum ad elementum , & fiat sacramentum . by which they would perswade us , against all experience , that to make up a sacrament , there must be something said and something done ; whereas indeed to the perfection of a sacrament , or holy mystery ( for both these are one ) it is sufficient that one thing be done whereby another is signified , though nothing be said at all . when tarquinius was walking in his garden , a messenger came and asked him , what he would have done unto the town of gabij , then newly taken ? he answered nothing ▪ but with his wand struck off the tops of the highest popies ; and the messenger understanding his meaning , cut off the heads of the chief of the city . had this been done in sacris , it had been forthwith truly a sacrament , or holy mystery . cum in omnibus scientiis voces significent res , hoc habet proprium theologia , quòd ipsaeres significatae per voces , etiam significent aliquid , saith aquinas ; and upon the second signification are all spiritual and mystical senses founded : so that in sacris , a mystery or sacrament is then acted , when one thing is done and another is signified , as it is in the holy communion , though nothing be said at all . the ancient sacrifices of the jews , whether weekly , monethly , or yearly , their passover , their sitting in boothes , &c. these were all sacraments , yet we find not any sacred forms of words , used by the priests or people in the execution of them . to sum up that which we have to say in this point , the calling upon the words of consecration in the eucharist , is too weakly founded to be made argumentative , for the action is perfect , whether those words be used or forborn : and in truth to speak my opinion , i see no great harm could ensue , were they quite omitted . certainly thus much good would follow , that some part ( though not a little one ) of the superstition that adheres to that action , by reason of an ungrounded conceit of the necessity and force of the words in it , would forthwith pill off and fall away : i would not have you understand me so , as if i would prescribe for , or desire the disuse of the words ; only two things i would commend to you , first , that the use of the canon is a thing indifferent . and , secondly , that in this knack of making sacraments , christians have taken a greater liberty than they can well justify : first , in forging sacraments , more than god ( for ought doth or can appear ) did ever intend : and secondly , in adding to the sacraments instituted of god many formalities , and ceremonial circumstances upon no warrant but their own ; which circumstances by long use , begat in the minds of men a conceit , that they were essential parts of that to which indeed they were but appendant ; and that only by the device of some who practised a power in the church morethan was convenient . thus much for the first common mistake . the second is worse than it ; you see that both parts agreed in the acknowledgment of the real presence of the body of christ in the eucharist , though they differ in the manner of his presence , and application of himself to the receiver ; though the protestant disputant seems to have gone a little beyond his leader : had he exprest himself in the point of bread and wine , what became of it , whether it remain'd in its proper nature yea or no , i could the better have fathom'd him : now these words of his , that the bread and wine after consecration are truly ▪ and really the body of christ , howsoever they are suppled and allayed with that clause , not after a carnal , but after a spiritual manner , yet still remain too crude and raw , and betray the speaker for a lutheran at least , if not for a favourer of the church of rome ; for as for that phrase , of a spiritual manner , which seems to give season and moderation to his conclusion , it can yield him but small relief : for first , to say the flesh of christ is in the bread , but not after a carnal manner , is but the same nonsence , which the divines of rome put upon us on the like occasion , when telling us , that the blood of christ is really sacrificed , and shed in the sacrament , they add by way of gloss , that it is done incruente , unbloodily ▪ by the like analogy they may tell us , if they please , that the body of christ is there incorporated unbodily , flesh not carnally may pass the press jointly the next edition of the book of bulls . again , in another respect , that clause , of a spiritual manner doth your protestant disputer but little service , if any at all ; for the catholick disputant contriving with himself how to seat the body of god in the eucharist , as may be most for his ease , tells us , that he is there as spirits and glorified bodies ( which st. paul calls spiritual ) are in the places they possess ; so then , the one tells you the body of christ is there really , but spiritually ; the other , that he is there really , but as a spirit in a place ; and what now , i pray you , is the difference between them ? by the way , in the passage you may see what account to make of your catholick disputer . aristotle , and with him common sense , tells us thus much , that he that compares two bodies together , must know them both ; doth this gentleman know any thing concerning the site and locality of spirits , and bodies glorified ? if he doth , let him do us the courtesy as to shew us , at what price he purchased that degree of knowledg , that so we may try our credit , and see if we can buy it at the same rate ; tertius è coelo cecidit cato ? is he like a second paul , lately descended out of the third heavens , and there hath made us the discovery ? for by what other means he could attain to that knowledg , my dulness cannot suggest . but if he doth not know ( as indeed he neither doth nor can , for there is no means left to make discovery that way ) then with what congruity can be tell us that the body of christ is in the bread , as spirits , and glorified bodies are in their places , if he know not what manner of location and site , spirits and glorified bodies have ? i shall not need to prompt your discretion thus far , as that you ought not to make dainties of such fruitless and desperate disputers ; who , as the apostle notes , thrust themselves into things they have not seen , and upon a false shew of knowledge , abuse easie hearers , and of things they know not , adventure to speak they know not what . to return then , and consider a little more of this second mistake common to both your disputants , i will deal as favourably as i can with your protestant disputer ; for though i think he mistakes himself ( for i know no protestant that teacheth , that the common bread , after the word spoken is really made the body of christ ) yet he might well take occasion thus to erre out of some protestant writings : for generally the reformed divines do falsly report that holy action , whether you regard the essence or use thereof . for first , if in regard of the essence , some protestants , and that of chief note , stick not to say , that the words of consecration are not a meer trope , and from hence it must needs follow , that in some sence they must needs be taken literally , which is enough to plead authority for the gentlemans error . but that which they preach concerning a real presence and participation of christs body in the sacrament ; they expound not by a supposal that the bread becomes gods body , but that together with the sacramental elements , there is conveighed into the soul of the worthy receiver , the very body and blood of god , but after a secret , ineffable , and wonderfull manner . from hence , as i take it , have proceeded these crude speeches of the learned of the reformed parts , some dead , some living , wherein they take upon them to assure the divines of rome , that we acknowledge a real presence as well as they ; but for the manner how , con , or trans , or sub , or in , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we play the scepticks , and determine not . this conceit , besides the falshood of it , is a meer novelty , neither is it to be found in the books of any of the antients , till martin bucer rose . he out of an unseasonable bashfulness , and fear to seem to recede too far from the church of rome , taught to the purpose now related , concerning the doctrine of christ's presence in the sacrament ; and from him it descended into the writings of calvin and beza , whose authority have well-near spread it over the face of the reformed churches . this is an error which , as i said , touches the essence of that holy action ; but there are many now which touch the end and use of it , which are practised by the reformed parts ; for out of an extravagant fancy they have of it , they abuse it to many ends , of which we may think the first instituter ( save that he was god , and knew all things ) never thought of : for we make it an arbitrator of civil businesses ; and imploy it in ending controversies ; and for confirmation of what we say or do , we commonly promise to take the sacrament upon it ; we teach , that it confirms our faith in christ , whereas indeed the receiving of it is a sign of faith confirmed , and men come to it to testifie that they do believe , not to procure that they may believe : for if a man doubt of the truth of christianity , think you that his scruples would be removed upon the receiving of the sacrament ? i would it were so ; we should not have so many doubting christians , who yet receive the sacrament oft enough : we teach it to be viaticum morientium , whereby we abuse many distressed consciences , and sick bodies , who seek for comfort there , and finding it not , conclude from thence ( i speak what i know ) some defect in their faith. the participation of this sacrament to sick and weak persons , what unseemly events hath it occasioned , the vomiting up of the elements anon , upon the receipt of them , the resurging the wine into the cup , before the minister could remove his hand to the interruption of the action ? now all these mistakes and errors have risen upon some ungrounded and fond practices , crept long since ( god knows how ) into the church , and as yet not sufficiently purged out . i will be bold to inform you what it is , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the main fundamental fallacy , whence all these abuses have sprung . there hath been a fancy of long subsistance in the churches , that in the communion there is something given besides bread and wine , of which the numerality given , men have not yet agreed ; some say it is the body of god into which the bread is transubstantiated ; some say it is the same body with which the bread is consubstantiated ; some , that the bread remaining what it was , there passes with it to the soul the real body of god , in a secret unknown manner ; some , that a further degree of faith is supplied us ; others , that some degree of gods grace , whatever it be , is exhibited which otherwise would be wanting : all which variety of conceits must needs fall out , as having no other ground , but conjecture weakly founded . to settle you therefore in your judgment , both of the thing it self , and of the true use of it , i will commend to your consideration these few propositions . first , in the communion , there is nothing given but bread , and wine . secondly , the bread and wine are signs indeed , but not of any thing there exhibited , but of somewhat given long fince , even of christ given for us upon the cross sixteen hundred years ago , and more . thirdly , jesus christ is eaten at the communion table in no sence neither spiritually , by virtue of any thing done there , nor really , neither metaphorically , nor literally . indeed that which is eaten ( i mean the bread ) is called christ by a metaphor ; but it is eaten truly and properly . fourthly , the spiritual eating of christ is common to all places , as well as the lord's table . last of all , the uses and ends of the lord's supper can be no more than such as are mentioned in the scriptures , and they are but two . first , the commemoration of the death and passion of the son of god , specified by himself at the institution of the ceremony . secondly , to testify our union with christ , and communion one with another ; which end st. paul hath taught us . in these few conclusions the whole doctrine and use of the lord's supper is fully set down ; and whoso leadeth you beyond this , doth but abuse you . quicquid ultra quaeritur , non intelligitur . the proof of these propositions would require more than the limits of a letter will admit of ; and i see my self already to have exceeded these bounds . i will therefore pass away to consider the second part of your letter . in this second part , i would you had pleased to have done as in the first you did , that is , not only set down the proposition of the catholick , but some answer of the protestant , by which we might have discovered his judgement ; i might perchance have used the same liberty as i have done before , namely discovered the misstakes of both parties ; for i suspect that as there they did , so here they would have given me cause enough . now i content my self barely to speak to the question . the question is , whether the church may err in fundamentals ? by the church i will not trifle as your catholick doth , and mean only the protestant party , as he professeth he doth only the roman faction . but i shall understand all factions in christianity , all that entitle themselves to christ , wheresoever dispersed all the world over . first , i answer , that every christian may err that will : for if men might not err willfully , then there could be no heresie ; heresie being nothing else but wilful error : for if we account mistakes befalling us through humane frailties to be heresies , then it will follow , that every man since the apostles time was an heretick ; for never yet was there any christian , the apostles only excepted , which did not in something concerning the christian faith mistake himself , either by addition or omission , or misinterpretation of something . an evident sign of this truth you may see in this by the providence of god : the writings of many learned christians from the spring of christianity , have been left unto posterity , and amongst all those , scarcely any is to be found who is not confest on all hands to have mistaken some things , and those mistakes for the most part stand upon record by some who purposely observed them . neither let this ( i beseech you ) beget in you a conceit as if i meant to disgrace those whose labours have been and are of infinite benefit in the church . for if aristotle , and aphrodiseus , and galen , and the rest of those excellent men whom god had indued with extraordinary portions of natural knowledge , have with all thankful and ingenious men throughout all generations retained their credit entire , notwithstanding it is acknowledged that they have all of them in many things , swerved from the truth ; then , why should not christians express the same ingenuity to those who have laboured before us in the exposition of the christian faith , and highly esteem them for their works sake , their many infirmities notwithstanding ? you will say , that for private persons it is confest they may and daily do err ; but can christians err by whole shoals , by armies meeting for defence of the truth in synods ▪ and councils , especially general , which are countenanced by the great fable of all the world , the bishop of rome ? i answer , to say that councils may not err , though private persons may , at first sight is a merry speech ; as if a man should say , that every single souldier indeed may run away , but a whole army cannot , especially having hannibal for their captain ; and since it is confest , that all single persons not only may , but do err , it will prove a very hard matter , to gather out of these a multitude , of whom being gathered together , we may be secured they cannot err . i must for mine own part confess , that councils , and synods not only may and have erred , but considering the means how they are managed , it were a great marvel if they did not err : for what men are they of whom those great meetings do consist ? are they the best , the most learned , the most vertuous , the most likely to walk uprightly ? no , the greatest , the most ambitious , and many times men , neither of judgment , nor learning ; such are they of whom these bodies do consist : and are these men in common equity likely to determine for truth ? qui ut in vita , sic in causis , spes quoque improbas alunt , as quintilian speaks . again , when such persons are thus met , their way to proceed to conclusion , is not by weight of reason , but by multitude of votes and suffrages ; as if it were a maxim in nature , that the greater part must needs be the better ; whereas our common experience shews , that , nunquam ita bene agitur cum rebus humanis ut plures sint meliores . it was never heard in any profession , that conclusion of truth went by plurality of voices , the christian profession only excepted ; and i have often mused how it comes to pass , that the way which in all other sciences is not able to warrant the poorest conclusion , should be thought sufficient to give authority to conclusions in divinity , the supream empress of sciences . but i see what it is that is usually pleaded , and with your leave i will a little consider of it . it is given out , that christian meetings have such an assistance of god , and his blessed spirit , that let their persons be what they will they may assure themselves against all possibility of mistaking ; and this is that they say , which to this way of ending controversies , which in all other sciences is so contemptible , gives a determining to theological disputes of so great authority . and this musick of the spirit is so pleasing , that it hath taken the reformed party too ; for with them likewise all things at length end in the spirit ; but with this difference , that those of rome confine the spirit to the bishops and counsels of rome , but the protestant enlargeth this working of the spirit , and makes it the director of private meditations . i should doubtless do great injury to the goodness of god , if i should deny the sufficient assistance of god to the whose world , to preserve them both from sin in their actions , and damnable errors in their opinions ; much more should i do it , if i denied it to the church of god ; but this assistance of god may very well be , and yet men may fall into sin and errors . st. paul preaching to the gentiles , tells them that god was with them in so palpable a manner , that even by groping they might have found him , yet both he and we know what the gentiles did . christ hath promised his perpetual assistance to his church ; but hath he left any prophesie , that the church should perpetually adhere to him ? if any man think he hath , it is his part to inform us , where this prophesy is to be found . that matters may go well with men , two things must concur , the assistance of god to men , and the adherence of men to god ; if either of these be deficient , there will be little good done . now the first of these is never deficient , but the second is very often ; so that the promise of christs perpetual presence made unto the church , infers not at all any presumption of infallibility . as for that term of spirit which is so much taken up , to open the danger that lurks under it , we must a little distinguish upon the word . this term [ spirit of god , ] either signifies the third person in the blessed trinity , or else the wonderful power of miracles , of tongues , of healing , &c , which was given to the apostles , and other of the primitive christians , at the first preaching of the gospel , but both these meanings are strangers to our purpose ; the spirit of god , as it concerns the question here in hand , signifies either something within us , or something without us ; without us , it signifies the written word , recorded in the books of the prophets , apostles , and evangelists , which are metonymically called the spirit , because the holy ghost spake those things by their mouths when they lived , and now speaks unto us by their pens when they are dead . if you please to receive it , this alone is left as christs vicar in his absence , to give us directions both in our actions and opinions ; he that tells you of another spirit in the church to direct you in your way , may as well tell you a tale of a puck , or a walking spirit in the church-yard . but that this spirit speaking without us may be beneficial to us , oportet aliquid intus esse , there must be something within us , which also we call the spirit ; and this is twofold ; for either it signifies a secret illapse , or supernatural influence of god upon the hearts of men , by which he is supposed inwardly , to incline , inform , and direct men in their ways , and wills , and to preserve them from sin and mistake ; or else it signifies that in us , which is opposed against the flesh , & which denominates us spiritual men , and by which we are said to walk according to the spirit ; that which st. paul means , when he tells us , the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh , ( rom. 7. ) so that we may not do what we list . now of these two , the former it is , which the church seems to appeal unto in de ermining controversies by way of counsel : but to this i have little to say . first , because i know not whether there be any such thing yea , or no. secondly because experience shews , that the pretence of the spirit in this sence is very dangerous , as being next at hand to give countenance to imposture and abuse : which is a thing sufficiently seen , and acknowledged both by the papist and protestant party ; as it appears by this , that though both pretend unto it , yet both upbraid each other with the pretence of it . but the spirit in the second sence , is that i contend for ; and this is nothing but the reason illuminated by revelation out of the written word . for when the mind and spirit humbly conform and submit to the written will of god , then you are properly said to have the spirit of god , and to walk according to the spirit , not according to the flesh . this alone is that spirit which preserves us frō straying from the truth ; for he indeed that hath the spirit , errs not at all , or if he do , it is with as little hazard and danger as may be ; which is the highest point of infallibility , which either private persons or churches can arrive unto . yet would i not have you to conceive that i deny that at this day the holy ghost communicates himself to any in this secret and supernatural manner , as in foregoing times he had been wont to do ; indeed my own many uncleannesses are sufficient reasons to hinder that good spirit to participate himself unto me , after that manner . the holy ghost was pleased to come down like a dove ; veniunt ad candida tecta columbae . accipiet nullas sordida turris aves . now it is no reason to conclude the holy ghost imparts himself in this manner to none , because he hath not done that favour unto me . but thus much i will say , that the benefit of that sacred influence is confined to those happy souls in whom it is , and cannot extend it self to the church in publick ; and if any catholick except against you for saying so , warrant your self and me out of aquinas , whose words are these , innititur fidei natura revelationi apostolis & prophetis factae , qui canonicos libros scripserunt , non autem revelationi , siqua fuit , aliis doctoribus factae . it being granted then , that churches can err , it remains then in the second place , to consider how far they may err ; i answer for churches as i did before for private persons , churches may err in fundamentals if they list , for they may be heretical , for churches may be wicked , they may be idolaters , and why then not heretical ? is heresy a more dangerous thing than idolatry ? for whereas it is pleaded , that churches cannot fall into heresie , because of that promise of our saviour , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church , is but out of mistake of the meaning of that place ; and indeed i have often mused how so plain a place could so long and so generally be misconstrued : to secure you therefore , that you be not abused with these words hereafter , ( for they are often quoted to prove the churches infallibility ) i shall indeavour to give you the natural meaning of them , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the gates of hell , is an hebraisme ; for in the hebrew expression , the gates of a thing signifies the thing it self , as the gates of sion , sion it self , and by the same proportion the gates of hell signifies hell it self : now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we english hell , as in no place of scripture it signifies heresie , so very frequently in scripture it signifies death , or rather the state of the dead , and indifferently applied to good and bad ; let us then take the word in that meaning , for what greater means can we have to warrant the signification of a scripture word , than the general meaning of it in scripture ? so that when our saviour spake these words , he made no promise to the church of persevering in the truth , but to those that did persevere in the truth he made a promise of victory against death and hell ; and what he there says , sounds to no other purpose , but this , that those who shall continue his , although they dy yet death shall not have the dominion over them ; but the time shall come , that the bands of death shall be broken ; and as christ is risen , so shall they that are his rise again to immortality : for any help therefore that this text affords , churches may err in fundamentals . but to speak the truth , i much wonder , not only how any churches , but how any private man , that is careful to know and follow the truth , can err in fundamentals : for since it is most certain , that the scripture contains at least the fundamental parts of christian faith , how is it possible ▪ that any man , that is careful to study and believe the scripture , should be ignorant of any necessary part of his faith ? now whether the church of rome err in fundamentals , yea or no ? to answer this , i must crave leave to use this distinction ; to err in fundamentals , is either to be ignorant of , or deny something to be fundamental that is , or to entertain something for fundamental , which is not . in the first sense , the church of rome , entertaining the scriptures as she doth , cannot possibly be ignorant of any principal part of christian faith ; all her error is , in entertaining in her self , and obtruding upon others , a multitude of things for fundamentals , which no way concern our faith at all : now how dangerous it is thus to do , except i know whether she did this willingly or wittingly , yea or no , is not easy to define : if willingly she doth it ; it is certainly high and damnable presumption , if ignorantly , i know not what mercies god hath in store for them that sin not out of malitious wickedness , now concerning the merriment newly started ; i mean the requiring of a catalogue of fundamentals , i need to answer no more , but what abraham tells the rich man in hell , habent mosen & prophetas , they have moses , and the prophets , the apostles , and the evangelists , let them seek them there ; for if they find them not there , in vain shall they seek them in all the world besides . but yet to come a little nearer to the particulars ; if the church of rome would needs know what is fundamental , in our conceit , and what not , the answer , as far as my self in person am concerned in the business , shall be no other than this ; let her observe what points they are , wherein we agree with her , and let her think , if she please , that we account of them as fundamentals , especially if they be in the scriptures ; and on the other hand , let her mark in what points we refuse communion with her , and let her assure her self , we esteem those as no fundamentals . if she desire a list and catalogue made of all those , she is at leisure enough , for ought i know , to do it her self . last of all , concerning the imputation of rebellion and schism against church-authority , with which your catholick disputant meant to affright you ; all that is but meerly powder without shot , and can never hurt you ; for since it hath been sufficiently evidenced unto us , that the church of rome hath adulterated the truth of god , by mixing with it sundry inventions of her own ; it was the conscience of our duty to god , that made us to separate : for where the truth of god doth once suffer , there union is conspiracy , authority is but tyranny , & churches are but routs ; and suppose we , that we mistook , and made our separation upon error , the church of rome being right in all her waies , though we think otherwise , yet could not this much prejudice us ; for , it is schism upon wilfulness that brings danger with it , schism upon mistake , and schism upon just occasion , hath in it self little hurt , if any at all . sir , i return you more than i thought , or you expected ; yet less than the argument requir'd : if you shall favour me so much as to carefully read what i have carefully written , you shall find ( at least in those points you occasioned me to touch upon ) sufficient ground to plant your self strongly against all discourse of the romish corner-creepers , which they use for the seducing of unstable souls . be it much or little that i have done , i require no other reward than the continuance of your good affection to , your servant , whom you know . a paraphrase on s. matthew's gospel . by the ever memorable mr. john hales , of eaton-colledge , &c. printed , 1677. a paraphrase on st. matthews gospel . chap. xii . scholar . sir , i thank you for the pains you have taken in facilitating to my understanding the scope and purpose of the xi . of st. matthew : if i might not be too troublesome to you , i would also desire you to take the like pains with me in the twelfth . master . i shall , with all my heart ; provided that you will make your objections , as they rise within you ; for peradventure , i may think you understand that which you do not , and not understand that which you do , and so lose my labour . scholar . i shall obey you readily , and therefore to begin with the beginning of the chapter ; i pray , sir , how is it said , 1. that , at that time , jesus went through the corn , with his disciples ? when in the very next chapter before , it is said , that he sent all his disciples away from him . master . by these words , at that time , is not meant the very next immediate instant of time , to that , when he spake the last words going before ; but such a convenient portion of time , wherein the twelve disciples might have gone about those parts , whereunto they were sent , and returned back again : so st. matthew , having spoken newly of christs dwelling in nazareth , when he was a child of about two years old , immediately subjoyns , in those days came john the baptist , as if john had come within some few days after his coming into nazareth , when we know there passed eight and twenty years between . scholar . i believe it as you say , and therefore shall pass to that which doth more trouble me , and that is , what that was , which the disciples did , which was not lawful on the sabbath day . master . how come you to be troubled at that ? is it not said in plain terms , they plucked the ears of corn , & did eat them . why should not you think that this was their fault ? scholar . i shall tell you why : to my thinking , there are three things said , 1. that they went through the corn. 2. that they plucked the ears . 3. that they eat them . now whether all these or one of these was their fault , i cannot tell ; and i shall tell you the reason of my doubt . first , it is true that their very walking might have been their fault , because it was not lawful on the sabbath , to walk above the space of two thousand cubits , and we know not how far christ & the disciples might have come that day ; but yet methinks , if that had been it , they should have reproved christ as well as his disciples , because 't is very likely they walk't the one as much & as far as the other . secondly , it is true , that their plucking the ears of corn might have been their fault , but yet methinks it should not , in regard the law is so clear , in the 23. deut. 25. when thou comest into the standing corn of thy neighbour , then thou mayst pluck the ears with thine hand , but thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbours standing corn. and , truly why that , which is so plainly lawful at another time , should be unlawful on the sabbath ( being it is so far from being any kind of labour or servile work ) i cannot imagine . 3. it 's true , that they did eat them , and i cannot see what fault there is in that , unless you can shew me . mast . and peradventure i shall shew you more in that than you thought on . it is true that the general consent of expositors runs on their plucking the ears upon the sabbath-day , as being the thing condemned by the pharisees for an unlawful thing : but i think they would be much troubled to prove it . the custom and manner of the jews , ( especially since the times of the macchabees ) being to allow acts of greater labour and pain than the plucking of an ear , namely , waging war against their enemies , the travelling of carryers and merchants , with such others , even on the sabbath-day . i should rather encline to think , that their fault was eating ; especially if that be true , which the very heathen poets tax and scoff them so with , namely , their sabbath-fasts . for if all things be well considered , i believe there will more be said for this , than for the other crime . and if a man will go no further than that answer which our saviour makes for them , he he shall find ground enough to be of this opinion . for , if the pretended fault had been working or labouring , our saviour christ might have easily laid his answer upon joshua , or upon many others , who did greater work than this upon the sabbath . but laying it as he doth upon david , and upon his eating that which was forbidden : he seemes to answer one unlawful eating with another , when necessity was a sufficient dispensation for both . i do not oblige you to believe this as a positive truth , but only tell you that as much may be said for the one as the other ; but if you would be sure to know what their fault was , you had best put them both together and you will not miss . scholar . i thank you for this light , i wish you could give me as good in my next objection . master . i shall do my best , what is that i pray ? scholar . our saviour saith , in the third verse of this chap. that david did eat of the shew-bread , and they that were with him ; and the holy ghost saith , 1 sam. 21. 1 where this history is recorded , that there was no man with him , for it is said there , that ahimelech the priest was afraid at the meeting of david , and said unto him , why art thou alone , and why is no man with thee ? how shall i reconcile this contradiction to my thinking ? master . the truth is , the words of our saviour in st. matthew , are too plain and evident , than to admit of any other construction , but that there were some other men with david ; and if they could admit of it , yet st. mark would put all out of doubt , for he saith expresly , that , david did eat the shew-bread , and gave it to them that were with him , mark. 2. 26. and therefore , when the priest saith , that there was no man with him in samuel , it is best to understand that of no man in sight , because , peradventure , david might have caused them to withdraw for the present , till he had got relief from the priest , both for himself and them . and this , i conceive the best ▪ satisfaction unto that doubt . scholar . i think it not improbable ; but before i leave this story of david , i pray , tell me how it comes to pass , that our saviour saith , david entred into the house of god , in v. 4. of this chap. when as yet the house of god was not built , ( i. e. ) when as yet there was no temple . master . it was well objected , and the answer to be given is this : that our saviour calls that place where the tabernacle then was , the house of god , which afterwards became the proper appellation of the temple . scholar . it is very likely : now if you please , let us pass from this answer concerning david , to that concerning the priests , in the 5th . v. where christ saith , that the priests on the sabbath-day , prophane the sabbath , and are blameless : what doth he mean by that ? master . in those words , our saviour useth another argument , in behalf of his disciples ; which they call an argument from the less to the greater , to justify their plucking and their eating on the sabbath-day . amongst the jews , the law of the sabbath was ever so to be interpreted , as that it hindred not the works of the temple ; and therefore it was a kind of rule in the jewish law , that in the temple there was no sabbath . from this submission of the law of the sabbath to the works of the temple ; our saviour argueth to that , which is greater than it , the works of a prophet , who was above a priest : his answer is in brief this ; the priests , by their works in the temple upon the sabbath , were not thought to prophane the sabbath ; and therefore , there is less reason that my disciples , who are prophets , should be thought to prophane it , in doing of that which is a less work than theirs ; and that this is the scope of his reply , will appear by that which follows , when he saith , that in this place , there is one greater than the temple , in the 6th verse ; for , the truth is , every prophet was greater than the temple , that is , he was obliged in no case to the laws & customs of the temple ; but might sacrifice out of it , when he pleased , as appears in the practice of eliah . and whereas it may be objected , that the priestly function , on the sabbath , could not be performed without the labour of offering , but the prophetical function of the disciples might be performed on the sabbath , without plucking ears and eating : the answer is , that both our saviour and his disciples were so intent upon their prophetical employment , that , as elsewhere , they forgat to take bread , so here , they either forgat , or had no time for the provision of victuals before the sabbath , whereon to feed on the sabbath . scholar . i apprehend your meaning , and desire you to make the force of christs third argument as evident unto me , which follows in the seventh verse , where he saith , but if ye had known what this meaneth ; i will have mercy and not sacrifice , ye would not have condemned the guiltless . master . his meaning is no more but this , that when two laws seem to clash so against one another , that both cannot be kept ; the better is to be observed , and the worse omitted ; the law which willeth us to do good to all men , and to further them in the means of their salvation , which to a christian is a law moral , never to be omitted ; is better than the law which willeth us not to work or eat upon the sabbath , which is onely a law ritual : christ could not intend to teach , and the disciples intend to prepare and fit the minds of the people to be taught , and withall intend the preparing of such things , as were requisite to the strict observation of the sabbath ; and therefore in equity , the law of the sabbath ought to give place to the law of instructing the world in the ways of happiness , and not to have justled with it . schol. i conceive this argument , but yet methinks , there follows somewhat like a reason , which i do not yet conceive , in the next verse ; for the son of man is lord even of the sabbath ; pray shew me what the meaning is of that . master . they that by the [ son of man ] here , understand christ , or the messias , do mistake ; for in that acceptation of the words , the reason doth not hold : for if christ had meant onely , that he as the messias , was lord of the sabbath , and so could abrogate it at his pleasure , then what needed all the three other arguments , that went before ? by the [ son of man ] therefore is to be understood every common ordinary man , as appears most evidently by that of st. mark 2. 27. the sabbath was made for man , and not man for the sabbath . besides , at this time , christ neither had preached , nor would have others to preach , that he was the messiah ; and a good while after this , as you may see in matth. 16. 20. he charged , that they should tell it no man , &c. the sense therefore of the words , is this : that which is ordained for another thing , ought to give place to that thing , for which it is ordained : but the sabbath was ordain'd for man , every man ; therefore it ought to give place unto him ; namely , when a thing so nearly concerning man , as his salvation , steppeth in between . for , to be [ lord of the sabbath ] is , to dispose and order the sabbath unto his own use , and to have a right so to order , and dispose it . scholar . i thank you for the pains : and because i have put you to so much already , i shall trouble you with nothing concerning the next story of the man which had the withered hand , because , i think i do well enough understand it ; only , let me desire you to give me your opinion , why , when our saviour christ had healed him , and divers other men , of their diseases : it is added in the 16th verse of this chapter , and he charged them ; that they should not make him known ? master . truly , that which was the cause of his secess , or his withdrawing himself from them , in the verse before may very well be conceived the cause also of this injoyn'd silence ; namely , that he might be fafer from all violence , and force . but , they which say , that he did it out of charity to those pharisees who did seek his life , say not amiss : as origen reports of aristotle , that he withdrew himself from athens , not for his own sake ; but for the athenians sake , lest he should give them an occasion of committing another murther , after the murther of socrates . hitherto , as yet , this zeal and endeavours of the pharisees to maintain the traditions of their elders , and the religion of their fathers , might seem somewhat excusable ; and therefore , christ adding miracle to miracle , did wait for their repentance and amendment : in the mean time , preventing them by escapes , and concealing of himself , from doing him any violence or mischief , till such time , as that , resisting the light and testimony of their own conscience ( as some of them did , very shortly after , as we shall see anon ) they had more deservedly drawn upon themselves , the guilt of that innocent blood , which afterwards fell upon their heads : so , that when christ , charged them that they should not make him known ; he meant , only that they should not discover where he was , that so with the more silence , and less opposition , he might do the business of his father : and this sense is agreeable to that which follows out of the prophet isaiah , in the 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 , and 21 verses . schol. i take it to be so indeed : but in these words out of isaiah , there is somewhat which does much trouble me how to understand ; and that is , the latter part of the 20. verse ; where it is said , till he send forth judgment unto victory : pray , what do you take to be the meaning of those words ? mast . i shall run through the whole words of the prophet , and by that you will better understand that part . these words of the prophet isaiah are produced by st. matth. for a confirmation of that meekness , humility , quietness and silence , with which the great business of our salvation was to be dispatched : for , by these words [ i will put my spirit on him ] is understood the spirit of meekness , gentleness and humility , which was emblem'd in the dove , when it came upon him ; and by those words [ and he shall shew judgment unto the gentiles ] is understood the preaching of the christian law ; and therefore , if you mark it in the 42 of isaiah , and the 4th verse , it is added , as an explication of the word [ judgment ] going before ; and the isles shall wait for his law. when he comes to preach this law , or , to shew forth this judgment , saith the prophet , he shall not strive , nor cry ; that is , he shall discover no sign of anger , or discomposure in his mind ; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets , saith the prophet ; that is , he shall cause no tumult or popular hubbub ; he shall not expose the vices of men to the knowledge and censure of the world , of whom he hath but the least hope that they will amend . a bruised reed shall he not break , saith the prophet ; that is , the mind which is afflicted , he shall not afflict more : and the smoaking flax shal he not quench ; that is , where he does but see a little smoak , he will look for some fire ; he will so comply with the weaknesses and infirmities of all mankind , that he will not be out of hope to cherish them up into virtues . and all this he will do , saith the prophet , till he send out judgment unto victory ; of which words , whatsoever the sense or meaning be , this is plain , that they contain the success or event of that meekness , gentleness , and quietness , which went before . now , taking it for granted , that there is nothing left out in these words , as st. jerom does suspect , i can imagine but two senses that can be put upon them : and those two senses arise out of the two several acceptations of the word [ judgment . ] for , first , if by [ judgment ] in this place , be meant the same , which was meant by [ judgment ] in the 18th verse , going before ; then the sense of the words is this ; he shall preach the christian law , with all meekness and mildness , maugre all opposition and malice of those that do oppugn it , till that law have prevailed , or gotten the victory ; that is , till the greatest part of all the world embrace it : and this sense is no improper sense , if we look no further . but then , secondly , if by [ judgment ] be meant , the disceptation , or discussion of a cause ( in which sense it is often taken in the scriptures ) then the meaning of the words is this ; he shall use so much meekness and gentleness , in working upon the minds of all men in the world , that , let any man sit in judgment upon that which he hath done , and he shall carry the cause , or bear away the victory . to this purpose saith the psalmist of god , that , he is clear when he is judged , psal . 51. 6. and in this sence god saith of himself , o ye men of judah , judg ye , i pray you , between my vmeyard and me , isa . 5. 3. and in this judgment christ got the victory , when with all patience and long-sufferance , with all gentleness and meekness , he endured the perverse and crooked dispositions of the people of the jews , and spared no time or labour to reform them , if they would have hearkned unto him . sch. sir , i confess there is much reason in what you say , but methinks it seems a little strained sense , to be put upon those words , as you read them , till he shall send forth judgment ; for according to your sence , we should read them thus , at least , till he shall carry away the judgment with victory , or , to victory . mast. you have judged very right , and so indeed should we read them ; for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we render [ shall send forth ] is of the same signification with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which doth signify [ to carry away . ] but you must bear with more faults in the translation of your testament than this , and i hope you will bear with me , if i tell you plainly of them when i meet with them . sch. i beseech you do , for though i have a very great opinion of those men who did translate the testament ; yet i would be loth to be a loser by my reverence . but if you please , i will proceed in framing my objections . mast . you shall not need , for i foresee whither you are driving , even towards the great scruple that affrights the world , the sin against the holy ghost , of which there is mention in this chapter , upon the occasion of christs healing of the blind and dumb man , possessed of the devil , in the 22 verse of this chapter . sch. i was indeed , and therefore if you please , let us come unto that story . mast . with all my heart ; and first , i must let you know , that so soon as the pharisees saw that great miracle which christ had done ; they said , that he casteth out devils by beelzebub , the prince of the devils , in the 24th verse of this chapter ; and truly this was no unusual practice amongst the sorcerers and magicians , as is evident by many of the ancient poets : when they could not prevail any other way , to use the help of the great and chiefest devil ( whose name they would threaten him to publish , if he did not help them ) to expell , or cast out other less devils that possessed men ; in iamblichus there is mention of that form , in which they threatned him ; and porphiry says , that his name was serapis . but , our saviour sufficiently refuteth that calumny , several ways . first , by a common and known axiom amongst themselves , every kingdom divided , &c. and the meaning thereof is this ; that the devils are wise , there is no question : but they that are wise , will rather seek to establish themselves and their own power , which is done by concord and agreement , than to distract and dislocate it , which is done by faction and division ; therefore it is not likely that the devils will so differ and disagree , as the one to expell the other , as they would perswade the world. secondly , by retortion , in these words , if i by beelzebub do cast out devils , by whom do your children cast them out ? vers . 27. and the force of christs argument is this : in a like cause , equity will that men give a like judgment ; when your disciples do cast out devils , do not you think that they cast them out by a divine power ? therefore so should you even think of me , if you thought aright : but i should take this to be an ironie rather . sch. i consess i did partly conceive the scope of these two arguments before , but that which follows , i do not understand , but if i cast out devils by the spirit of god , then is the kingdom of god come unto you : pray make me understand it , that is , first , what is meant by the [ kingdom of god ? ] secondly , what is the meaning of this consequence , if i by the spirit of god cast out devils , then is the kingdom of god come unto you , for i see not how it follows . mast . by the kingdom of god is meant the time of the messiah's being in the world , as in dan. 4. 29. and dan. 7. 14. and the consequence there inferred , is this , that as god , by sundry works and miracles , gave his people of israel a sign of their instant deliverance out of egypt ; so the great miracles of christ , were ordained by him , to be a sign unto the world of a greater deliverance , which was now working for them ; and therefore where they saw the one , they should expect the other . sch. i believe you have guessed right ; but what say you to the verse which follows , or else how can one enter into a strong mans house , and spoil his goods , &c. it looks like another argument , which christ useth in his own defence against this calumny of the pharisees , but i confess , i do not yet apprehend it . mast . it is not unlikely , but anon you will. this is indeed a third argument of christs , and it toucheth to the quick ; for whereas his other two served onely to convince certain men , this comes to the very thing it self , and quite overthrows it : there have been , saith christ , who have cast out devils through beelzebub : it may be so , but this hath been without any harm or loss , from the one unto the other ; it hath not come to spoiling of goods , to extirpate out of the minds of men any of their sins , but rather to encrease them : this hath been nothing but a meer collusion and cheat : but when i cast out devils , you may see i spoil them to the purpose , i rob them of their power ; for , i plant in the minds of men such doctrine , as will admit of no vice and wickedness to be near it , ( wherein the power of the devil does consist ) and therefore you may well imagine , that i am in good earnest ; for , i bind him and spoil him ; which no one devil ever yet did unto another , or ever will. schol. i shall desire to put you to no more trouble in this verse : if you please , let us pass unto the next . mast . as i take it , that is this ; he that is not with me , is against me ; and he that gathereth not with me , scattereth abroad . schol. truly , as the words stand alone , i should not trouble you at all with them , for to my thinking , they are easie enough ; but , as they follow upon what went before , i see not what our saviour christ might intend by them . mast . having declared himself to be so far from casting out devils in the name of beelzebub , that he laboured to bind even beelzebub himself , and to spoil him of all his power , which he exercised in the hearts of wicked men ; he carries the consideration of this enmity between the devil and himself to such a height , as that he will not admit of any neutrality , in any other man ; professing , that whosoever is not the devil's enemy , is his ; according to that axiom of the wars , medii habentur pro hostibus : all indifferent men are enemies . and if all this be not enough to shew how far he was from operating by the help of satan , surely , nothing can be . and therefore having said this , conceiving he had said as much as man could say , he adds : wherefore i say unto you , ( vers . 31. ) that is , seeing it is evident by these reasons and arguments , that all the signs and miracles which i do , i do by the power of god , and not by the help of the devil : consider what a wretched punishment you draw upon your selves , that thus do slander and bely me . this connexion st. mark does teach us plainly , ch. 3. 30. where he says : because they said , he hath an unclean spirit . and yet it is to be considered , that our saviour christ proceeds not meerly upon the strength of his own arguments ; but as knowing their thoughts , as st. matthew tells us , in the 2● th verse of this chapter , that is , he saw in unto them , and he knew that they verily believed , that the miracle which he wrought , was wrought by the power of god ; but yet he saw , that they would rather invent any lye , or asperse him with any slander ( though they knew it well enough to be a lye and slander ) then to suffer the people to forsake their chair , and to follow christ . schol. i thank you , sir , for this pains which you have taken , to prepare me for the understanding of my great doubt , which now methinks , i begin to have a little glimpse of , but desire you to give me better light. mast . i shall : but first , i would gladly know what you conceive of those words , in the 31. verse . all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men ; because , by understanding of what sin shall be forgiven , you will the more easily understand me , when i tell you , what manner of sin shall not . schol. why sir , i understand any manner of sin whatsoever : and i understand the sin of the holy ghost , to be the only sin which shall never be forgiven . mast . i did fear as much , and therefore i did ask you ; but you must know that you are much mistaken , both in the one and in the other opinion ; for first , it is to be considered , that christ speaks not of all sin , but of that sin , which is blasphemy or calumny , ( for there are many other sins which will never be forgiven , as well as the sin against the holy ghost , ) and therefore in the next verse he saith , whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man , that is , whosoever slandereth or calumniateth any other man , it shall be forgiven him ; and in those words he expoundeth what he means by sin and blasphemy . secondly , it is to be considered , that when he saith , all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven , there is an hebraism in those words , which is often met withall in scripture ; as in the 5 chap. of st. matthew , heaven and earth shall pass away , but my words shall not pass away ; that is , heaven and earth shall sooner pass away , than my words shall pass away ; ( and so st. luke reads them ) not that heaven and earth shall ever pass away , but that , if it were possible , they should sooner pass away than his word shal . the meaning therefore of the words is onely this , all manner of calumnies and slanders , are heavy sins , and shall hardly be forgiven to those that do commit them ; but they will be more easily forgiven , than that calumny , which he knows to be a calumny , who doth commit it : and this christ calls blaspheming of the holy ghost ; which was the case of these pharisees , who calumniated the miracle which our saviour wrought , as proceeding from the devil , which their own conscience told them , issued from the holy spirit of god. sch. i confess , sir , this is very plain and easie ; and i pray , proceed to the 33. verse . either make the tree good , and his fruit good , &c. saith christ : the dependance of those words , is this : you say , i work by the devil , saith christ : but you do not see any other work of mine , besides this miracle , which looks like a work of the devil : you see , i go about doing good ; i exhort people to repentance , i shew them the way to heaven : these are no works which the devils use to do : therefore , either say , that i do all this in the name of beelzebub too ; or else , acknowledge that i do my miracles by the power of god : for , men judge of the quality of the mind , by the common actions , or habits of their life , as they do of trees , by the fruits which they produce , be they good or evil . and that this is true , saith christ , you may judge by your own selves : for , how can ye , being evil , speak good things ? saith he , ver . 34. that is , you can never do it . a dissembled and forc'd mind will quickly shew it self , some way or other , and will return unto its wonted habit ; and therefore , as you may judge by your selves , that because you speak and do nothing but that which is evil , therefore ▪ you your selves are evil : so you should judge of me , that because you see , i say and do nothing but that which is good , therefore i am good ; and therefore that spirit which works in me is good . schol. i apprehend all this ; and therefore shall save you the labour of expounding that which follows , for i see , it all tends to the same end and scope ; only , methinks i am much streightned in my mind , about the 36th verse , which forbids all idle words : for , if we must give account of every one such , god be merciful unto me , and to many thousand more ; pray , make me to understand the full latitude of this commination of christ . mast . whatsoever is meant by this idle word here , you may be sure it hath reference to that word which the pharisees had spoke of christ , when they said , he cast out devils in the name of beelzebub , for christ hath not done with this calumny of theirs yet ; but continues his discourse upon it , till the 38. verse of this chapter ; now considering this [ idle word ] in that reference , it is most reasonable to expound it , not of every word which a man speaks , of which there is no profit , or which is good for nought , ( for if that exposition should be true , which god forbid , yet it were not pertinent , ) but of such a word , wherein there is no truth ; for by idle , and vain , in holy scripture , is often understood that which is false : and so to take the name of god in vain , in the commandments , is to swear falsely : so that the scope of christ in those words is this , do you think that you shall escape for this horrid calumny which you have cast upon me , knowing it to be a calumny in your own hearts ? i tell you nay ; for no man shall escape in the day of judgment , for calumniating another man falsely , though he do not know that that calumny is false ; and therefore much less shall you . by which we may learn , if not to avoid all idle words , ( which to the nature and education of man is almost quite impossible , ) yet to beware of calumniating persons , not only when we know that calumny is false , ( which doubtless is a very grievous sin ) but when we are not evidently ascertain'd that the thing is true . and therefore it is the special office of a good christian , to refrain his tongue altogether in that point , for it is a rare thing for a man to give himself the liberty , to repeat that of another which is false , and not to wish it true . sch. i thank you for this satisfaction , and by gods help shall endeavour to frame my life and conversation accordingly ; for i perceive it is a sin , which the world taketh little notice of ; though indeed it be the destruction of charity , without which no man is a christian : for so they avoid doing of that which is notoriously evil , they care not what they say of any man. now if you please , we will proceed to that which follows , i pray , what do the scribes and pharisees mean to desire a sign from christ , in the 31th verse of this chapter , who had seen so many before ; for , methinks it seems a very impertinent request . mast . some interpreters are of opinion that these scribes and pharisees were not the same , who saw those late miracles which our saviour did ; and they ground their opinion upon luke 11. 16. where it is said , that others tempted him , seeking a sign from heaven ; but , upon examination , that opinion will not hold . the better answer is , that they did not desire a bare sign , or a miracle , of which they had seen enough already ; but they desired a sign from heaven ( as st. luke speaks ) that is , that god by some strange prodigy there , should declare him to be a prophet sent from him , if so be he were so indeed : for , as for those miracles which he did on earth , they were not satisfied with them , as apprehending them pendulous between two several powers ; for as they they might come from god , so they might come from the devil ; but , in heaven they thought the devil had no power . schol. i like your reason well ; but , i pray , what doth christ mean by that answer which he gives to their request in the 39 , 40 , 41 , and 42 verses for i do not understand it perfectly ? mast . the meaning of his answer is this ; you would have a sign from heaven , and then you will believe me : god , that will omit no occasion to leave you unexcusable , hath given you signs enough , here upon earth ; but he is not bound to satisfie your humours , and give them where and when you would have them , he knows these which you have seen are sufficient to perswade belief , if that your avarice , and profit , and places which you hold in the present jewish state , did not make you seek all occasions and cloaks for your incredulity : and therefore , if those signs which i have done on earth , will not serve you ; you shall have none from heaven , but if you will , you shall have one from under the earth , even the sign of the prophet jonas , and that sign not a sign to convert you , who after so many signs and miracles will not be converted ; but a sign of my innocence , and your malice , which will persecute me even unto the death , for all that good which i have done amongst you . sch. by this which you have said , i do not only perceive the scope and purport of christs answer , which he gives them ; but the drift of verse 41 and 42 also , wherein he complains , that they who had had so many signs done amongst them , never would believe ; whereas those of nineveh , and the queen of the south , without any sign or miracle ▪ wrought , either by jonas , or solomon , believed all that was told them . but , i pray , how comes the next discourse in , concerning the unclean spirit going out of a man , in the 43 verse ? and what is the scope and purport of that discourse ? mast . it is not improbable , that our saviour christ , being much afflicted with the evil and incredulous hearts of the people of the jews , taketh a kind of survey of that whole nation , even from the time wherein they were first led away captive into babylon , to the time when they were utterly destroyed by titus . before their captivity , they were full of all manner of wickedness , as appeareth by the prophets ; under their captivity , they were a little reclaimed , and upon that amendment , were brought back again : but then after their return , in the times not long before our saviours coming , they fell into such vices , as were abominable , even in the heathens themselves , as is manifest in story ; and to shut up all , added thereunto the contempt of their own messiah , sent amongst them with so much power , and yet with so much meekness , as man never came : whereupon being justly forsaken of god , whom they had thus forsook , they became the most wretched and vicious people in the world , as josephus doth describe them to be , about their latter times ; and this contemplation of their miserable condition , our saviour seems to insinuate , even unto themselves , in this kind of parable of the unclean spirit going out of a man , and returning back again . of which , if that which i have said be not the occasion , ( as i do not avow , but only offer it unto you ) yet certainly this is the sence , that those men , who have once left and forsaken the vicious courses of their carnal life , if they ever relapse , and fall back again into them ; all their latter sins are far more sinful than their former ; almighty god justly revenging the contempt of that grace , which he hath offered to them , by giving them up to all manner of wickedness and uncleanness . sch. i think you have guessed right , and to the purpose ; but there are some terms , and phrases in this parable or story , or whatsoever you will call it , which i do not understand as , first i pray what do you think christ means by walking through dry places , and seeking rest , and finding none . mast . dry and sandy grounds are no fit places of habitation , and such kind of places are all those places where the devil doth abide when he is out of man , who is only capable of vice and sin , wherein the devil taketh pleasure : and the meaning of christ is this , that as a man that travels , is wearied with heavy , sandy , and dry way , more than with green , soft , and pleasant fields ; so the devil is not half so well satisfied , when he enters into any other creature , as when he enters into man. schol. it may be so indeed but then , why taketh he seven spirits , more wicked than himself ? why is the number of seven here pitched on , more than any other ? mast . the number of seven is the number of perfection , or the signification of that which , in its own kind , is grown to full maturity , whether it be good or evil . so st. john calleth the holy spirit of god the seven spirits , rev. 1. 4. so the barren is said to have born seven , 1 sam. 2. 5. that is , to have been as fruitful as any other woman is , or can be . and therefore when the unclean spirit is said to take seven other spirits with him , the meaning only is , that that man becomes perfectly wicked , when that spirit once returns again , whom before he had cast out . sch. i approve your exposition of the word , and think it likely . but i pray can you guess what business the virgin , and the brethren of christ might have with him , because the scripture saith they staied without , to speak with him , in the 47 verse of this chapter ; peradventure you may think me curious , and therefore if expositors have made no conjecture thereupon , i will not urge you . mast . truly they have , and i shall not conceal it from you : they do imagine , that his mother and his kindred , having had some inckling of the pharisees conspiring against him , to do him mischief , desired to speak with him in private , and to contrive some way , to withdraw him out of danger : this will seem the more probable , if we consider that which st. mark saith , chap. 3. 21. that his friends would fain have laid hold on him , saying , that he was beside himself ; which in all likelihood , they said to make the pharisees the less active in contriving any mischief to him , as conceiving him a fitter subject for their pity , than their hate ; but it seems christ would not hearken unto them , nay would not know them , as appears by the three last verses of this chapter , which are so plain and easy , that i dare not suspect your sense , and apprehension of them . finis . a tract concerning the power of the keys and auricular confession . by the ever memorable mr. john hales , of eaton-colledge , &c. printed , 1677. a tract concerning the power of the keys , and auricular confession . in opening the point concerning the doctrine of the keys of the kingdom of heaven , i will follow those lines , that tract , which your self hath been pleased to set me . yet first , ere i com● to your particulars , i will discover , as far as generality will give me leave , what it is which we intend , when we use this phrase of speech . at the first appearance , it is plain , the form of words is not proper , but metaphorical . now some truth there is in that which you learnt in the books of your minority , from your aristotle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and indeed could we but once agree what it is which that metaphor doth intimate , the greatest part of the dispute were at an end . the natural way to discover this , is to see what the use of keys , properly taken , is ; and after that , what means they are , which in our endeavours to attain to the kingdom of heaven , have something proportionable to the use of keys : and thi● being once discovered , there can remain no question what are the keys . now nothing is more known , than that the only use of keys is to open and shut , to admit us unto , or exclude us from the possession of what we seek . now since the kingdom of heaven is compared to a house , from which all the sons of adam , by nature are excluded ; whatsoever then it is that gives us way , that removes all obstacle● which hinder us from entrance of that house , that certainly must be understood by the name of keys . now all these means , or whatsoever else it is which doth further us towards the possessing our selves of eternal life , they were all laid down in the gospel of our lord jesus christ , committed by him fully and first of all to the dispensation of the blessed apostles , to be reported by them , or their means , all the world over . so that i think i may safely lay thus much for the first ground of the question betwixt your self and me , claves regni coelorum sunt doctrina evangelii . now since keyes are nothing without some hand to manage them , we must in the second place discover into whose hands they are committed . and for this purpose , first of all , it must not be denyed that principally and properly , ( i might well enough add only , if i listed , but that i spare you ) the hand of god it is , that manages and applies these keys ; for of god and christ it is written , he hath the keys , he opens , and no man shuts ; he shuts , and no man opens . yet since it hath pleased god to use the ministry of men , to the saving of men , and bringing them into the kingdom of heaven ; in a secondary sense the keys of that kingdom are said to be put into the hands of men. in as much as it hath pleased the wisdom of god , not to use these keys , at least as far as concerns the beneficial and opening part , some act of man not first premised ; for since that faith in jesus christ is the sum of the doctrine of the gospel , and faith cometh not but by hearing , and hearing cometh not but by preaching , and preaching is the act of men alone , ( for god employs not angels in that behalf , ) it appears that this preaching , or manifestation of the doctrine of the gospel not performed , the keys must needs be unprofitable . by the manifestation of the gospel of god , i mean not only the labour of the lip , in expounding , praying , reproving , or the like , but the administration of sacraments , the acting ( if any thing beyond this is to be acted ) whatsoever the manifestation of the gospel requireth . so that i think i may set down for a second ground towards the setling of the point in question , thus much , that the managing or application of the keys , so far forth as men are intrusted with them , is , the manifestation of the doctrine of the gospel . thus far have we opened in general the substance of the keys , and the use of them . i come now to your queries . first , you ask of the quality of the apostles receiving this power , whether they had it as judges authoritativè , or as messengers , declaratativè , only to propound , or denounce ? you manifest your self for the former , and reasons you bring , such as they be . your reasons i shall consider in their place , but i must first tell you that you ask amiss , for your question is concerning the whole power of the keys , but you answer only of a part , that is , of sacramental absolution only , as if all the power of the keys resided there . so that here you use the fallacy plurium interrogationum ; and i might well grant you , that indeed that part were judicativè , but yet contend that all the rest were only declarativè . to reduce you therefore , i must do with you , as physicians in some cases deal with their patients ; ere i can come to purge the humour you are sick of , i must a little prepare you . the power of the keys is exprest by the learned in three yokes , or pairs of words . 1. to remit , and to retain . 2. to loose , and to bind . 3. to open , and to shut . on the one side , to remit , to loose , to open , which is the one half of the power , agree in one , and signify the same thing ; so do the other three , to retain , to bind , to shut , which contain the other half . to your question then , whether the power of the keys be declarative only , i answer first : for this latter part or half , it is meerly declarative , neither can it be otherwise ; which that you may see with your eyes , i must request you to observe , that all shutting of the kingdom of heaven , is either common to all , or casual , befalling only some . the common exclusion is that state of nature , wherein we all are involved , as we spring from the first adam ; the second exclusion is that which befals christians relapsing into sin . the first shutting was at the fall , and was then prefigured unto us , by the barring up of the way unto the tree of life . what active , what judiciary part can any minister of the gospel have here ? all that the apostles could do here , was but to open to men this their misery , a thing , before the death of our saviour , either very sparingly , or not at all revealed . of this therefore you must needs quit your hands , and so you must of the other , i mean exclusion upon casuality and relapse . for when a man converted to christianity , falleth eftsoons into some mortal sin , doth the gate of heaven stand open to him , till he fall upon some curst priest , that used his key to shut it ? there are in the world a kind of deceitful locks with sliding bolts , i have seen my self and others much deceived by them , when the doors have fallen at our heels , and lockt us out when we intended no such thing . sir , heaven door hath a sliding lock , upon occasion of mortal sin , it will shut without any use of a key . perchance i do not well , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet the sober meaning of what i have spoken merrily , is but this , that either you must make the ministry of the gospel only declarative , or else it will follow that every impenitent relapser , that hath the good fortune to escape the priests being privy to his sin , is like to find heaven open at the last . so then it is apparent , that notwithstanding your heaping up of interrogatories , and your pressing of ligaveritis & vos , and telling me what i never knew , that solvere and ligare be actives ; yet in this part of our power , all your activity is lost , and there remains nothing for you but to report upon good evidence , what you find done by your betters to your hand . half your jurisdiction then is fallen : and if i had no other medium but this : i might with good probability conclude against you for the other part . for if the one half made in the same form , in the like phrase and garb of speech , yet enforceth no more but declaration and denouncing : then why should you think the other half , ( which in all likelyhood is homogeneal to the former ) to be more ? nay , there is far more natural equity that you should be here only declarative than in the other . politicians tell us , that it is wisdom for princes , who desire to gain the love of their subjects , to administer themselves all favours and graces , but to leave action of justice and harshness to be performed by others . sir , no prince can be so ambitious of the love of his subjects as god is of the love of mankind : why then should i think him so ill a politician , as to make himself the administrator of the rough , unpleasing , love-killing offices , of binding , shutting , retaining ; and then pass over to the priest , the dispensation of the fair , well-spoken , ingratiating offices of remitting , loosing , and opening ? but i will leave this kind of topick and dialectical arguing , because you are a pretender to convincing reasons ; i will directly enter even upon that part of your power of opening , and remitting , being the other part of your territory , and by main strength , take all activity from you there too . give me leave to ask you one question , you may very well favour me so far , for you have asked me very many . the conversion of a sinner , is it an act of the keys , yea or no ? by your principles it is not ; for you make the power of the keys to be judiciary , and therefore the conversion of an infidel pertains not to them : the church of rome will help you with a medium to make this argument good . do we not judge those that are within ? for those that are without , god shall judge , saith paul : whence she infers , that a converted infidel , not yet admitted to the church , is a stranger to the judiciary power of the keys ; but being once admitted into the church , he is now become the churches subject , and so fit matter for the priest to work on upon his next relapse . what think you of this reason ? do you take it to be good ? take heed ; or else it will give you a deadly stripe . for the conversion of an infidel , out of question is a most proper act of the keys . for , since the opening of the kingdom of heaven is confest to belong unto the keys ; and heaven , which was shut against the infidel in time of his infidelity , upon his conversion is acknowledged to be opened unto him ; certainly whoever converted him , used the keys ; or else he must pretend to have either a pick-lock , or the herb lunaria , which , they say , makes locks fall off from doors , and the fetters from horses heels . if then the conversion of a sinner be an act of the keys , and by the argument of the church of rome it be not judiciary , it follows then , that all acts of the keys are not judiciary ; and if not judiciary , then declarative only ? for betwixt these two i know no mean. but because to dispute against a man out of his own principles , which perchance are false ( for this we know oft falls out , that by the power of syllogisms , men may and do draw true conclusions from false premises ) because , i say , thus to do , in the judgment of aristotle , leaves a man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and i am willing not only to perswade you , but to better you : i will draw the little which remains to be said in this point , from other places . first , in all the apostles practice in converting jews and gentils , find you any thing like unto the act of any judiciary power ? they neither did nor could use any such thing . that they did not , appears by philip , who having catechised the eunuch , and finding him desirous of baptism , immediately upon profession of his faith , admitted him into the church . that they neither did nor could , appears by peter and the rest of the apostles in the acts , who could never in the space of an afternoon , being none but themselves , have converted three thousand souls , had they taken any such way , as you seem to misfancy . again , imagine with your self all circumstances you can , which are of force to make a power judiciary , apply them all to the practice of the apostles , in the conversion of infidels , and if you find any one of them agree to that action , let me be challenged upon it , and be thought to have abused you with a fallacy . to conclude then , since your ligaveritis , which is the one half of your pretended jurisdiction , pretends to nothing above declarative : and since your solveritis , in so great an act as is the conversion of infidels , lays claim to no more , what act of the power of the keys is it , wherein we may conceive hope of finding any thing active or judiciary ? i see what you will say , there yet remains a part , you think , wherein you have hope to speed , and that is the reconciling of relapsing christians : as you fancy that in every sinning christian , there is a duty binding him to repair , and lay his sin open to the minister of the gospel , and in him a power to consider of the sins of such as repair unto him , to weigh particulars , to consider circumstances , and occasions , and according to true judgment , either upon penance imposed to absolve sin , ( which you call remitting of the sin ) or to with-hold him for a time , from participation of holy duties with catholick christians , which you call retaining of sins , supposing that god doth the like in heaven , as it is written , what you bind in earth , is bound in heaven , and what you loose in earth , is loosed in heaven . now the rock on which you labour to found so extravagant a conceit , is no other than the words which i have quoted out of scripture ; you press earnestly the ligaveritis & vos , all which can yield you small relief ; for if they help you not at all in those weighty parts of the power of the keys , which but now were laid before you ; by what analogy can you expect they should afford you any assistance here ? as is ligare , so is solvere ; as is the conversion of an infidel , so is the reconciling of a relapsing christian , for any thing you can make appear ; either all is declarative , which is very possible , and in many cases necessary , or all judicative , which in some cases is impossible , and in none necessary ; so that to fit the scripture to your fancy , you are constrained to distract and rend it without any warrant at all . but you have found out in the text a stronger argument against the declarative power , i contend for : you espie an insufflavit , a great , a solemn , and unwonted ceremony , undoubtedly concluding some greater matter than a poor power declarative : what ? did our serious master thus spend his breath to no purpose , and like a hocus pocus with so much shew act us a solemn nothing ? i pray whose words are these ? i should have thought them to have been porphiries , or julians , ( but that i know your hand ) for you subscribed not your name to your letters : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : they are the words of your pindarus , upon an occasion not much unlike unto this sir , you have no skill to judg , or set a price upon so divine an act ; he lost not his breath , when he spent his insufflavit ; he opened their wits , that they might understand the scripture ; he revealed to them the mysteries of jesus christ , dying and rising again for the worlds salvation , the greatest news that ever was reported in the world , and till then concealed ; he commanded them to be the first bringers of this good news , and that they might the more undauntedly perform their charge , he endowed them with infallibility , with infinite constancy and fortitude , with power of working such wonders as none could do unless god were with them . appello conscientiam tuam : were those things such nothings , that they deserve to be thus jeered ? but that befalls you which befalls the stares that dwell in the steeple , who fear not the bells , because they hear them every day . these wonderful benefits of god have every day sounded in your ears , and the frequency of them hath taught you to forget your reverence to them . yet all this insufflavit , this ceremony , was for no other end but to further a declarative power ; their undaunted fortitude , their power of miracling , their infallibility did but add countenance and strength to their declarative power , by by which they went up and down the world , to manifest the good tydings of salvation . so that even these which served thus to set off the gospel , were nothing else but means of the better manifestation of it , therefore may they very well pass , if not amongst the keys , yet amongst the necessary wards . whereas your fancy of an active or judicative power in the priest , concurring with god in reconciling relapsing christians , is neither one nor other , but is indeed like unto the work of some deceitful smith , who the better to countenance and grace his work , adds to his key superfluous and idle wards , which in the opening of the lock , are of no use at all . to your second query , whether the keys were confined to the apostles only ? the answer is in no case hard to give , it may perchance in some case be dangerous ; for there is a generation of men in the world ( the clergy they call them ) who impropriate the keys unto themselves , and would be very angrie to understand , that others from themselves should claim a right unto them . to your question then , no doubt but originally none received the keys from the mouth of our saviour , but the apostles only ; none did nor ever could manage them with that authority and splendor as the apostles did , who were above all most amply furnished with all things fitting so great a work . for whereas you seem to intimate , that the preaching mission was communicated to others , as the seventy two disciples , as well as the apostles ; you do but mistake your self , if you conceive that the keys of the gospel were any way committed to them ; for concerning the mysteries of jesus christ , and him crucified for the sins of the world ( wherein indeed the opening of the kingdom of heaven did consist ) they received it not , they knew it not . to be the prime reporters of this , was an honour imparted only to the apostles : yet were they not so imparted , as that they should be confined to them . every one that heard and received the light of the saving doctrine from them , so far forth as he had understanding in the waies of life , had now the keys of the kingdom of heaven committed to his power , both for his own and others use . every one , of what state or condition soever , that hath any occasion offered him , to serve another in the ways of life , clergie , or lay , male or female , whatever he be , hath these keys , not only for himself , but for the benefit of others . for if natural goodness teach every man , lumen de lumine , erranti comitèr monstrare viam , &c. then how much more doth christian goodness require of every one , to his ability to be a light to those who sit in darkness , and direct their steps , who most dangerously mistake their way ? to save a soul , every man is a priest . to whom i pray you , is that said in leviticus , thou shalt not see thy brother sin , but thou shalt reprove , and save thy brother ? and if the law binds a man , when he saw his enemies cattel to stray , to put them into their way ; how much more doth it oblige him to do the like for the man himself ? see you not how the whole world conspires with me in the same opinion ? doth not every father teach his son , every master his servant , every man his friend . how many of the laitie in this age , and from time to time , in all ages have by writing for the publick good , propagated the gospel of christ , as if some secret instinct of nature had put into mens minds thus to do . i shame to dwell so long upon so plain a theme , yet because i feel your pulse , and perceive what it is that troubles you , i must say something to an objection , which i know you make . you conceive that forthwith upon this which i have said , must needs follow some great confusion of estates , and degrees , the laitie will straitway get up into our pulpits , we shall lose our credit , and the adoration which the simple sort do yeild us is in danger to be lost . sir , fear you not , the sufficient and able of the clergy , will reap no discountenance , but honour by this : for he that knows how to do well himself , will most willingly approve what is well done by another . it is extream poverty of mind to ground your reputation upon another mans ignorance , and to secure your self , you do well , because you perceive perchance , that none can judge how ill you do . be not angry then to see others joyn with you in part of your charge . i would all the lords people did preach , and that every man did think himself bound to discharge a part of the common good : and make account that the care of other mens souls concerned him as well as of his own . when the apostles took order to ordain some , upon whom the publick burden of preaching the gospel should lie , it was not their purpose to impropriate the thing to those persons alone ; but knowing that what was left to the care of all , was commonly worst lookt unto , in wise and most christian care , they designed some , whose duty it should be to wait upon the gospel alone , the better to preserve the profession to the worlds end : it hath been the wisdom of those , who have taken care of the propagation of arts , and sciences , not only to appoint means , that multitudes should study and make profession privately , but that some should be constituted publick professors to teach è cathedra , that so all might know to whom to repair , in the doubts incident to their faculties , and this hath been thought a sovereign way to preserve sciences . sir , we are the publick professors of christianity , we speak è cathedra , which none can do , but such as are ordained . let the private profession and practice of christianity improve it self never so much , yet the honour of the publick professor , so he deserve his place , can never impair . it greives me to stand so long upon so plain , so unwelcom a lesson , i will ease my self and you , and reflect upon your third query . in the third place , you require to know , what necessity , or what convenience there is of confession : you mean , i think , that confession , which is as foolishly as commonly called sacramental , for it hath nothing of a sacrament in it . did i know your mind a little more in particular , what form of confession you speak of , whether as it is used in the church of rome , or in some refined guise , as it seems some would , who have of late called for it in the church of england , i should speak peradventure more appositely to what you desire . but since you have proposed confession only in a generality , my answer shall be in like manner . and first of all , confession of sins is a thing , not only convenient , but unavoidably necessary to salvation , without which none shall ever see god. and thus far i suppose , all christians do agree . the main difference is in the manner of practising it , the question being , what parties are to be interessed in it ? natural equity informeth us , that unto every partie , justly offended , satisfaction some way or other is due . the first party wronged in every offence , is god , against whose honour , and express command every sin is committed . to him therefore in the first place , satisfaction is due , by submission and acknowledgment , since there remains no other way of composition with god. but there are some sins committed against god , some committed against god and men. in the former it is sufficient if we pacifie god alone ; in the latter , our neighbour , against whom we have trespast , must receive satisfaction for the wrong done him , at least , if it be in the power of the trespasser . your primer of sarum will tell you , that not to make restitution , if you be able , and not to pardon , unavoidably exclude from the kingdom of heaven . now might the doctrine of confession and acknowledgment in case of offence given , have been permitted to run fair and clear , as it descends from god , and good reason , the first fountains of it . there needed no more to be said in this argument , than i have already told you . but i know not what intempestive foolish ambition hath troubled the stream , and it hath past now for a long time ( till the reformation altered it ) for a general doctrine in the church , that in all kind of sins , whether against god or our neighbour , there can be no reconciliation betwixt the parties offending , and offended , but by interposition of a priest , a thing utterly besides all reason and common sense , that you should open your private imperfections to one whom they concern not , ( for it is granted , that all parties concerned in an offence , must have reason at the hands of the offender ) and who can no ways help you ; for he that is conscientious of his sin , ( and without trouble of conscience i think none would ever repair to his confessor ) knows very well , that there is no sin so great , but upon submission , god both can and will pardon it ; and none so small , but pardon for it must be sought , or else he hath been ill catechised . and more than this what can any priest tell him : * your pliny , somewhere tells you , that he that is stricken by a scorpion , if he go immediately , and whisper it into the ear of an ass , shall find himself immediately eased : that sin is a scorpion , and bites deadly , i have always believed , but that to cure the bite of it , it was a sovereign remedy to whisper it into the ear of an [ ] a priest , i do as well believe as i do that of pliny . the patrons of this fancy , for defect of reason and common congruity , are fain to betake themselves to scripture ; and the mischief is , there is there no direct text for it , and therefore they are constrained to help themselves with a meer conjectural consequence ; for since it is taken for certain , that there is a power to remit and to retain sins , how shall they who have this power given them , know how fit it is to remit or to retain a sin , except they know the sin , and know it they cannot , but by confession . for answer to this , first , we have found and proved , that the words of scripture must receive such a sense , as from whence no such consequence can be inferred . secondly , we have indeavoured to prove , that the dispensation or application of the keys of the kingdom of heaven , ( being nothing else , but the duty of saving of souls ) is a duty , which pro occasione oblatâ , lies upon every christian : which if it be true , ( as in good faith i think it , ) and the clergy perceive it , i think they would never go about to urge that text , although we should yield it them in their own meaning . for they must needs see , that it follows , that you may as well make your muletter , ( if you have one ) your confessor , as your parish priest . tell me in good earnest , if you can , out of what good intent can this desire to know another mans sin , which concerns you not , proceed ? is it to teach him that it is a sin ? he knew that , or else he had never repaired to you , to confess it : is it to tell him , that he is to repent , to restore , to pray , to give alms , &c. all this he knew , or else he hath had his breeding under an evil clergy . yea , but how shall the physician cure the disease , if he know it not ? suppose all diseases had one remedy , ( as all spiritual diseases have ) and what matters it if the patient be sick , to know whether it be an ague , or the meazels , or the pleurisie , since one potion cures them all ? yea , but if he know not the particulars , how shall he judg of the quantity of the doses ? for the same disease upon sundry circumstances , may require majus or minus in the physick . this is the poorest scruple of a thousand ; for in the regiment of patients spiritually sick , there can be but one mistake , that is , if you give too little : be sure you give enough , and teach your patients to think no sin to be little , ( which in men spiritually sick is error saluberrimus ) and you can never err : for natural physick is only physick ; but spiritual physick is both physick and diet , and may be indifferently administred both to the sick and the sound repentance perchance only excepted , of which upon occasion , assure your self you can hardly take too much . what reason now can you give me , why you should desire to dive into any mans breast , & scire secreta domûs ? except it be that which followes in the next verse , indè teneri , as i must confess , i suspect it is . the truth is , some mistaken customs of the ancient church , the craft and power of the clergy , the simplicity and ignorance of the laity , these begat the tragelaphus , of which we now speak . it may be you take the practice of the ancient church , and the point of excommunication , to make somewhat for you : when those cards shall come to be play'd ( though that of church custom is not greatly material , which way soever it looks ) i believe you will not find the game you look for . indeed i was once minded to have considered something of that : but i think you look for a letter , not for a book , and i perceive my self already to have gone beyond the compass of a letter . another parley therefore , if you please , shall put an end to those and other scruples , if any do arise . and for the present give , i pray you , a little respite unto from my study , this 8 day of march. 1637. yours , j. h. a tract concerning schism and schismaticks . wherein is briefly discovered the original causes of all schism . by the ever memorable mr. john hales , of eaton-colledge , &c. never before printed by the original copy . printed , 1677. a tract concerning schism . heresie and schism as they are in common use , are two theological 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or scar-crows , which they , who uphold a party in religion , use to fright away such , as making inquiry into it , are ready to relinquish and oppose it , if it appear either erroneous or suspicious . for as plutarch reports of a painter , who having unskilfully painted a cock , chased away all cocks and hens , that so the imperfection of his art might not appear by comparison with nature ; so men willing for ends to admit of no fancy but their own , endeavour to hinder an inquiry into it by way of comparison of somewhat with it , peradventure truer , that so the deformity of their own might not appear . but howsoever in the common manage , heresie and schism are but ridiculous terms , yet the things in themselves are of very considerable moment , the one offending against truth , the other against charity , and therefore both deadly , where they are not by imputation , but in deed . it is then a matter of no small importance , truly to descry the nature of them , that so they may fear , who are guilty of them , and they on the contrary strengthen themselves , who through the iniquity of men and times , are injuriously charged with them . schism ( for of heresie we shall not now treat , except it be by accident , and that by occasion of a general mistake , spread throughout all the writings of the ancients , in which their names are familiarly confounded ) schism , i say , upon the very sound of the word , imports division ; division is not , but where communion is , or ought to be . now communion is the strength and ground of all society , whether sacred or civil ; whosoever therefore they be , that offend against this common society and friendliness of men , and cause separation and breach among them : if it be in civil occasions , are guilty of sedition or rebellion ; if it be by occasion of ecclesiastical difference they are guilty of schism : so that schism is an ecclesiastical sedition , as sedition is a lay schism . yet the great benefit of communion notwithstanding , in regard of divers distempers men are subject to , dissention and disunion are often necessary ; for when either false or uncertain conclusions are obtruded for truth , and acts either unlawful , or ministring just scruple , are required of us to be perform'd ; in these cases , consent were conspiracy , and open contestation is not faction or schism , but due christian animosity . for the further opening therefore of the nature of schism , something must be added by way of difference to distinguish it from necessary separation , and that is , that the causes upon which division is attempted , proceed not from passion , or distemper , or from ambition , or avarice , or such other ends , as humane folly is apt to pursue ; but from well weighed and necessary reasons , and that , when all other means having been tryed , nothing will serve to save us from guilt of conscience , but open separation . so that schism , if we would define it , is nothing else but an unnecessary separation of christians from that part of the visible church , of which they were once members . now as in mutinies and civil dissentions , there are two attendants in ordinary belonging unto them ; one the choice of one elector or guide in place of the general , or ordinary governor , to rule and guide ; the other the appointing of some publick place or rendezvous , where publick meetings must be celebrated : so in church dissentions and quarrels , two appurtenances there are , which serve to make a schism compleat ; first , the choice of a bishop in opposition to the former , ( a thing very frequent amongst the ancients , and which many times was both the cause and effect of schism . ) secondly , the erecting of a new church and oratory , for the dividing party to meet in publickly . for till this be done , the schism is but yet in the womb. in that late famous controversy in holland , de predestinatione , & auxiliis , as long as the disagreeing parties went no further than disputes and pen-combats , the schism was all that while unhatched ; but as soon as one party swept an old cloyster and by a pretty art suddenly made it a church , by putting a new pulpit in it , for the separating party there to meet ; now , what before was a controversy , became a formal schism . to know no more than this , if you take it to be true , had been enough to direct how you are to judge , and what to think of schism and schismaticks ; yet because in the ancients , ( by whom many men are more affrighted than hurt ) much is said , and many fearful dooms are pronounced in this case ; will we descend a little to consider of schisms , as it were by way of story , and that partly further to open that which we have said in general , by instancing in particulars ; and partly to disabuse those who reverencing antiquity more than needs , have suffered themselves to be scared with imputation of schism , above due measure ; for what the ancients spake by way of censure of schism in general , is most true ; for they saw ( and it is no great matter to see so much ) that unadvisedly , and upon fancy to break the knot of union betwixt man and man ( especially amongst christians , upon whom above all other kind of men , the tye of love and communion doth most especially rest ) was a crime hardly pardonable , and that nothing absolves a man from the guilt of it , but true and unpretended conscience ; yet when they came to pronounce of schisms in particular ( whether it were because of their own interests , or that they saw not the truth , or for what other cause god only doth know ) their judgments many times ( to speak most gently ) are justly to be suspected ; which that you may see , we will range all schism into two ranks . for there is a schism , in which only one party is the schismatick ; for where cause of schism is necessary , there not he that separates , but he that occasions the separation is the schismatick . secondly , there is a schism , which both parts are the schismaticks : for where the occasion of separation is unnecessary , neither side can be excused from the guilt of schism . but you will ask , who shall be the judg what is necessary ? indeed that is a question , which hath been often made , but i think scarcely ever truly answered ; not because it is a point of great depth or difficulty truly to assoil it , but because the true solution carries fire in the tail of it . for it bringeth with it a peice of doctrine which is seldom pleasing to superiors . to you for the present this shall suffice . if so be you be animo defoecato , if you have cleared your self from froath and grownds , if neither sloth , nor fears , nor ambition , nor any tempting spirits of that nature abuse you , ( for these and such as these , are the true impediments ▪ why both that , and other questions of the like danger are not truly answered ) if all this be , and yet you see not how to frame your resolution , and settle your self for that doubt ; i will say no more of you than was said of papias , st. john's own scholar , you are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , your abilities are not so good as i presumed . but to go on with what i intended , and from which that interloping question diverted me ; that you may the better judge of the nature of schisms by their occasions ; you shall find that all schisms have crept into the church by one of these three ways ; either upon matter of fact , or matter of opinion , or point of ambition . for the first ; i call that matter of fact , when something is required to be done by us , which either we know , or strongly suspect to be unlawful ; so the first notable schism , of which we read in the church , contained in it matter of fact ; for it being upon error taken for necessary , that an easter must be kept ; and upon worse than error , if i may so speak , ( for it was no less than a point of judaism , forced upon the church , ) upon worse than error , i say , thought further necessary , that the ground for the time of our keeping that feast , must be the rule left by moses to the jews ; there arose a stout question , whether we were to celebrate with the jews , on the fourteenth moon , or the sunday following ? this matter , though most unnecessary , most vain , yet caused as great a combustion , as ever was in the church ; the west separating and refusing communion with the east , for many years together . in this fantastical hurry , i cannot see but all the world were schismaticks : neither can any thing excuse them from that imputation ▪ excepting only this , that we charitably suppose that all parties out of conscience did what they did . a thing which befel them through the ignorance of their guides , ( for i will not say their malice ) and that through the just judgment of god , because through sloth and blind obedience men examined not the things which they were taught , but like beasts of burthen patiently couched down , and indifferently underwent whatsoever their superiours laid upon them . by the way ; by this you may plainly see the danger of our appeal unto antiquity , for resolution in controverted points of faith , and how small relief we are to expect from thence . for if the discretion of the chiefest guides and directors of the church , did in a point so trivial , so inconsiderable , so mainly fail them , as not to see the truth in a subject , wherein it is the greatest marvel how they could avoid the sight of it ; can we without imputation of extream grosness and folly , think so poor spirited persons , competent judges of the questions now on soot betwixt the churches ? pardon me ; i know not what temptation drew that note from me . the next schism , which had in it matter of fact , is that of the donatist : who was perswaded ( at least so he pretended ) that it was unlawful to converse or communicate in holy duties with men stained with any notorious sin. ( for howsoever austin and others do specify only the thurificati & traditores , and libellatici , and the like , as if he separated only from those , whom he found to be such ; yet by necessary proportion , he mustrefer to all notorious sinners ) upon this he taught , that in all places where good and bad were mixt together , there could be no church , by reason of pollution , evaporating as it were from sinners , which blasted righteous persons who conversed with them , and made all unclean . on this ground separating himself from all whom he list to suspect , he gave out that the church was no where to be found but in him and his associates , as being the only men among whom wicked persons found no shelter ; and by consequence , the only clean and unpolluted company , and therefore the only church . against this saint augustine laid down this conclusion , unitatem ecclesiae per totum orbem dispersae propter nonnullorum peccata non esse deserendam ; which is indeed the whole sum of that fathers disputation against the donatist . now in one part of this controversie betwixt st. augustine and the donatist , there is one thing is very remarkable . the truth was there where it was by meer chance , and might have been on either side ▪ any reasons brought by either party notwithstanding . for though it were de facto false , that pars donati , shut up in africk , was the only orthodox party , yet it might have been true , notwithstanding any thing saint austine brings to confute it ; and on the contrary , though it were de facto true , that the part of christians dispersed over the earth were orthodox ; yet it might have been false notwithstanding any thing saint austine brings to confirm it . for where , or amongst whom , or amongst how many the church shall be , or is , is a thing indifferent ; it may be in any number more or less , it may be in any place country , or nation ; it may be in all , and ( for ought i know ) it may be in none , without any prejudice to the definition of the church , or the truth of the gospel . north or south , many or few , dispersed in many places , or confined to one ; none of these either prove or disprove a church . now this schism , and likewise the former , to a wise man that well understands the matter in controversie ; may afford perchance matter of pity , to see men so strangly distracted upon fancy ; but of doubt or trouble what to do , it can yield none . for though in this schism the donatist be the schismatick , and in the former both parties be equally engaged in the schism ; yet you may safely upon your occasions communicate with either , so be you flatter neither in their schism : for why might it not be lawful to go to church with the donatist , or to celebrate easter with the quartodeciman , if occasion so require ? since neither nature , nor religion , nor reason doth suggest any thing to the contrary : for in all publick meetings pretending holiness , so there be nothing done , but what true devotion and piety brook , why may not i be present in them , and use communication with them ? nay what if those to whose care the execution of the publick service is committed , do something either unseemly or suspicious , or peradventure unlawful ? what if the garments they wear be censured as , nay indeed be superstitious ? what if the gesture of adoration be used at the altar , as now we have learned to speak ? what if the homilist or preacher deliver any doctrine , of the truth of which we are not well perswaded , ( a thing which very often falls out ) yet for all this we may not separate , except we be constrained personally to bear a part in them our selves . the priests under eli had so ill demeaned themselves about the daily sacrifice , that the scriptures tell us , they made it to stink , yet the people refused not to come to the tabernacle , nor to bring their sacrifice to the priest . for in these schisms , which concern fact , nothing can be a just cause of refusal of communion , but only to require the execution of some unlawful or suspected act ; for not only in reason , but in religion too , that maxim admits of no release , cautissimi cujusque praeceptum quod dubitas , ne feceris . long it was ere the church fell upon schism upon this occasion , though of late it hath had very many ; for until the second council of nice , ( in which conciliable superstition and ignorance did conspire ) i say , untill that rout did set up image-worship , there was not any remarkable schism , upon just occasion of fact ; all the rest of schisms of that kind were but wantonness , this was truly serious . in this the schismatical party was the synod it self , and such as conspired with it . for concerning the use of images in sacris , first , it is acknowledged by all , that it is not a thing necessary ; secondly , it is by most suspected ; thirdly , it is by many held utterly unlawful . can then the enjoyning of the practice of such a thing be ought else but abuse ? or can the refusal of communion here , be thought any other thing than duty ? here , or upon the like occasion , to separate , may peradventure bring personal trouble and danger , ( against which it concerns every honest man to have pectus bene praeparatum ) further harm it cannot do . so that in these cases , you cannot be to seek what to think , or what you have to do . come we then to consider a little of the second sort of schism , arising upon occasion of variety of opinion . it hath been the common disease of christians from the beginning , not to content themselves with that measure of faith , which god and scriptures have expresly afforded us ; but out of a vain desire to know more than is revealed , they have attempted to discuss things , of which we can have no light , neither from reason nor revelation ; neither have they rested here , but upon pretence of church-authority , which is none , or tradition , which for the most part is but figment ; they have peremptorily concluded , and confidently imposed upon others , a necessity of entertaining conclusions of that nature ; and to strengthen themselves , have broken out into divisions and factions , opposing man to man , synod to synod , till the peace of the church vanished , without all possibility of recall . hence arose those ancient and many separations amongst christians , occasioned by arrianism , eutychianism , nestorianism , photinianism , sabellianism , and many more both ancient and in our time ; all which indeed are but names of schism ; howsoever in the common language of the fathers , they were called heresies . for heresie is an act of the will , not of reason ; and is indeed a lye , not a mistake : else how could that known speech of austine go for true , errare possum , haereticus esse nolo . indeed manichaeism , valentinianism , marcionism , mahometanism , are truly and properly heresies ; for we know that the authors of them received them not , but minted them themselves , and so knew that which they taught to be a lye. but can any man avouch that arrius and nestorius , and others that taught erroneously concerning the trinity , or the person of our saviour , did maliciously invent what they taught , and not rather fall upon it by error and mistake ? till that be done , and that upon good evidence , we will think no worse of all parties than needs we must , and take these rents in the church to be at the worst but schisms upon matter of opinion . in which case what we are to do , is not a point of any great depth of understanding to discover , so be distemper and partiality do not intervene . i do not yet see , that opinionum varietas , & opinantium unitas , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or that men of different opinions in christian religion , may not hold communion in sacris , and both go to one church . why may i not go , if occasion require , to an arrian church , so there be no arrianism exprest in their liturgy ? and were liturgies and publick forms of service so framed , as that they admitted not of particular and private fancies , but contained only such things , as in which all christians do agree , schisms on opinion were utterly vanished . for consider of all the liturgies that are or ever have been , and remove from them whatsoever is scandalous to any party , and leave nothing but what all agree on , and the event shall be , that the publick service and honour of god shall no ways suffer : whereas to load our publick forms with the private fancies upon which we differ , is the most sovereign way to perpetuate schism unto the worlds end . prayer , confession , thanksgiving , reading of scriptures , exposition of scripture , administration of sacraments in the plainest and simplest manner , were matter enough to furnish out a sufficient liturgy , though nothing either of private opinion , or of church pomp , of garments , of prescribed gestures , of imagery , of musick , of matter concerning the dead , of many superfluities , which creep into the churches under the name of order and decency , did interpose it self . for to charge churches and liturgies with things unnecessary , was the first beginning of all superstition , and when scruples of conscience began to be made or pretended , then schisms began to break in . if the spiritual guides and fathers of the church would be a little sparing of incumbring churches with superfluities , and not over-rigid either in reviving obsolete customs , or imposing new , there were far less danger of schism or superstition ; and all the inconvenience were likely to ensue , would be but this , they should in so doing , yeeld a little to the imbecillities of inferiors , a thing which st. paul would never have refused to do . mean while , wheresoever false or suspected opinions are made a peice of the church liturgy , he that separates is not the schismatick ; for it is alike unlawful to make profession of known or suspected falshoods , as to put in practice unlawful or suspect actions the third thing i noted for matter of schism was ambition , i mean episcopal ambition , shewing it self especially in two heads ; one concerning plurality of bishops in the same see , another the superiority of bishops in divers sees . aristotle tells us , that necessity causeth but small faults , but avarice and ambition were the mothers of great crimes ; episcopal ambition hath made this true : for no occasion hath produced more frequent , more continuing , more sanguinary schisms , than this hath done . the sees of alexandria , of constantinople , of antioch , and above all of rome , do abundantly shew thus much , and our ecclesiastical stories witness no less , of which the greatest part consists in the factionating and tumultuating of great and potent bishops . socrates apologizing for himself , that professing to write an ecclesiastical story , he did oft-times interlace the actions of secular princes and other civil businesses , tells us that he did thus to refresh his reader , who otherwise were in danger to be cloyd by reading so much of the acts of unquiet and unruly bishops , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in which as a man might say , they made butter and cheese one of another ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( that i may shew you a cast out of my old office , and open you a mystery in grammar ) properly signifieth to make butter and cheese : now because these are not made without much agitation of the milk , hence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by a borrowed and translated signification , signifies to do things with much agitation and tumult . but that i may a little consider of the two heads , which i but now specified ; the first i mentioned was the pluralitie of bishops in one sea. for the general practice of the church from the beginning , at least since the original of episcopacy , as now it is , was never to admit at once more than one bishop in one sea ; and so far in this point have they been careful to preserve unity , that they would not suffer a bishop in his sea to have two cathedral churches ; which thing lately brought us a book out of france , de monogamia episcoporum , written by occasion of the bishop of langres , who , i know not upon what fancy , could not be content with one cathedral church in his diocess , but would needs have two , which to the author of that work seems to be a kind of spiritual polygamy . it fell out amongst the ancients very often ; sometimes upon occasion of difference in opinion , sometimes because of difference amongst those who were interessed in the choice of bishops , that two bishops and sometimes more were set up , and all parties striving to maintain their own bishop , made themselves several churches , several congregations , each refusing to participate with others , and many times proceeding to mutual excommunication . this is that which cyprian calls erigere altare contra altare : to this doth he impute the original of all church disorders ; and if you read him , you would think he thought no other church-tumult to be a schism but this . this perchance might plead some excuse ; for though in regard of religion it self , it matters not whether there be one or more bishops in the same diocess , and sometimes two are known to have sat at once ( for epiphanius reckoning up the bishops of rome , makes peter and paul the first : and st. austin acknowledgeth , that for a time he sat fellow bishop with his predecessor , though he excuseth it , that he did so by being ignorant that the contrary had been decreed by the council of nice , ) yet it being a thing very convenient for the peace of the church to have it so ; neither doth it any way savour of vice or misdemeanor ; their punishment sleeps not , who unnecessarily and wantonly go about to infringe it . but that other head of episcopal ambition , concerning supremacy of bishops in divers sees , one claiming superiority over another , as it hath been from time to time , a great trespasser against the churches peace , so it is now the finall ruine of it . the east and the west , through the fury of the two prime bishops , being irremediably separated without all hope of reconcilement . and besides all this mischief , it is founded in a vice contrary to all christian humility , without which no man shall see his saviour ; for they do but abuse themselves and others , that would perswade us , that bishops , by christ's institution , have any superiority over other men , further than of reverence ; or that any bishop is superiour to another , further than positive order agreed upon amongst christians , hath prescribed . for we have believed him that hath told us , that in jesus christ there is neither high nor low ; and that in giving honour , every man should be ready to prefer another before himself ; which sayings cut off all claim most certainly to superiority , by title of christianity ; except men can think that these things were spoken only to poor and private men. nature and religion agree in this , that neither of them hath a hand in this heraldry of secundum sub & supra ; all this comes from composition and agreement of men among themselves . wherefore this abuse of christianity , to make it lacquey to ambition , is a vice for which i have no extraordinary name of ignominy , and an ordinary i will not give it , lest you should take so transcendent a vice to be but trivial . now concerning schism arising upon these heads , you cannot be for behaviour much to seek ; for you may safely communicate with all parties as occasion shall call you , and the schismaticks here are all those who are heads of the faction , together with all those who foment it : for private and indifferent persons , they may be spectators of these contentions as securely in regard of any peril of conscience ( for of danger in purse or person , i keep no account ) as at a cock fight . where serpents fight , who cares who hath the better ? the best wish is , that both may perish in the fight . now for conventicles , of the nature of which you desire to be informed , thus much in general . it evidently appears , that all meetings upon unnecessary occasions of separation are to be so stiled , so that in this sense , a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismaticks ; yet time hath taken leave sometimes to fix this name upon good and honest meetings , and that perchance not altogether without good reason ; for with publick religious meetings thus it fares : first , it hath been at all times confessed necessary , that god requires not only inward and private devotion , when men either in their hearts and closets , or within their private walls , pray , praise , confess and acknowledge ; but he further requires all those things to be done in publick , by troops and shoals of men , and from hence have proceeded publick temples , altars , forms of service , appointed times , and the like , which are required for open assemblies ; yet whilst men were truly pious , all meetings of men for mutual help of piety and devotion , wheresoever and by whomsoever celebrated , were permitted without exception . but when it was espied that ill affected persons abus'd private meetings , whether religious or civil , to evil ends , religiousness to gross impiety , ( as appears in the ethnick fleusinia , and bacchanalia ; and christian meetings under the pagan princes , when for fear they durst not come together in open view , were charged with foul imputations , as by the report of christians themselves plainly appears ; and civil meetings many times under pretence of friendly and neighbourly visits , sheltered treasonable attempts against princes and common-weals : ) hence both church and state joyned , and jointly gave order for forms , times , places of publick concourse , whether for religious or civil ends ; and all other meetings whatsoever , besides those of which both time and place were limited , they censured for routs and riots , and unlawful assemblies in the state , and in the church for conventicles . so that it is not lawful , no not for prayer , for hearing , for conference , for any other religious office whatsoever , for people to assemble otherwise , than by publick order is allowed . neither may we complain of this in times of incorruption , for why should men desire to do that suspiciously in private , which warrantably may be performed in publick ? but in times of manifest corruptions and persecutions , wherein religious assembling is dangerous , private meetings , howsoever besides publick order , are not only lawful , but they are of necessity and duty ; else how shall we excuse the meetings of christians for publick service , in time of danger and persecutions , and of our selves in queen maries days ? and how will those of the roman church amongst us , put off the imputation of conventicling , who are known amongst us privately to assemble for religious exercise against all established order , both in state and church ? for indeed all pious assemblies in times of persecution and corruptions howsoever practised , are indeed , or rather alone the lawful congregations ; and publick assemblies , though according to form of law , are indeed nothing else but riots and conventicles , if they be stained with corruption , and superstition . finis . miscellanies written by the ever memorable mr. john hales , of eaton-colledge , &c. printed , 1677. miscellanies . how to know the church . marks and notes to know the church there are none , except we will make true profession , which is the form and essence of the church to be a mark. and as there are none , so is it not necessary there should be . for to what purpose should they serve ? that i might go seek and find out some company to mark . this is no way necessary . for glorious things are in the scriptures spoken of the church : not that i should run up and down the world to find the persons of the professors ; but that i should make my self of it . this i do by taking upon me the profession of christianity , and submitting my self to the rules of belief , and practice , delivered in the gospel , though besides my self , i knew no other professor in the world. if this were not the authors end in proposal of the title , it is but a meer vanity . to the description of the church . the church , as it imports a visible company in earth , is nothing else but the company of professors of christianity , wheresoever disperst in the earth . to define it thus by monarchy , under one visible head , is of novelty crept up , since men began to change the spiritual kingdom of christ to secular pride and tyranny , and a thing never heard of , either in the scriptures , or in the writings of the ancients . government , whether by one or many , or howsoever , if it be one of the churches contingent attributes , it is all ; certainly it is no necessary property , much less comes it into the definition and essence of it . i mean outward government ; for as for inward government , by which christ reigns in the hearts of his elect , and vindicates them from spiritual enemies , i have no occasion to speak , neither see i any reference to it in all your authors animadversions . how christ is the head of the church . from the worlds beginning , till the last hour of it , the church is essentially one and the same , howsoever perchance in garment , and outward ceremony , it admits of difference . and as it was from the beginning of the world , so was it christian ; there being no other difference betwixt the fathers before christ and us , but this , as we believe in christ that is come , so they believed in christ that was to come . jesus christ yesterday , and to day , and the same for ever . reference unto christ is the very essence of the church , and there neither is , nor ever was any church but christ's ; and therefore the church amongst the jews was properly and truly christian , quoad rem , as we are . now as this church at all times is christ's body , so is christ the head of it . for it is as impossible for the church , as for the body to be without its head ; it is not therefore as your author dreams . christ came not to found a new church , or to profess a visible headship of it . that relation to this church , which we express when we call him the head of it , is one and the same , from the beginning to all eternity , neither receives it any alteration in this respect , because the person in whom this relation is founded , is sometimes visible , sometimes not . 't is true indeed , the head of the church sometimes became visible , but this is but contingent and by concomitancy . for christ the second person in the trinity , becoming man to redeem this church , and manifest the way of truth unto it ; it so fell out that the head of the church became visible . of this visibility he left no successor , no doctrine , no use , as being a thing meerly accidental : i ask , had the church before christ any visible head ? if it had , then was not christ the first , as here our teacher tells us ; if it had none , why then should the church more require a visible head , than it did from the beginning . to speak the truth at once . all these questions concerning the notes , the visibility , the government of the church , if we look upon the substance and nature of the church , they are meerly idle and impertinent : if upon the end , why learned men do handle them , it is nothing else but faction . of peter's ministerial headship of the church . in your authors paragraphs concerning the visible encrease , or succession of the church , there is no difference betwixt us . as for the proofs of peters ministerial headship , this first concerning his being the rock of the church , that cannot prove it ; for peter was the rock then ; when our saviour spake , but then could he not be the visible head , for christ himself then was living , and by our teachers doctrine , supplied that room himself . peter therefore , howsoever , or in what sence soever he were the rock , yet could he not be the visible head , except we will grant the church to have had two visible heads at once . secondly , the keys of heaven committed to peter , and command to feed his sheep , import no more , than that common duty , laid upon all the disciples , to teach all nations ; for this duty in several respects , is exprest by several metaphors . teaching , as it signifies the opening of the way to life , so is it called by the name of keys ; but as it signifies the strengthning of the soul of man by the word , which is the souls spiritual food , so is it called feeding . thus much is seen by the defenders of the church of rome , and therefore they fly for refuge to a circumstance : it is observed , that our saviour delivered this doctrine to peter alone ( as indeed sometimes he did ) in this it is supposed that some great mystery rests : for why should our saviour thus single out peter , and commend a common duty to him , if there were not something extraordinary in it , which concerned him above the rest ? this they interpret a preeminence that peter had in his business of teaching , which they say is a primacy and headship ; inforcing thus much , that all the rest were to depend from him , and from him receive what they were to preach . for answer , grant me there were some great mystery in it , yet whence is it proved , that this is that mystery ? for if our saviour did not manifest it , then might there be a thousand causes , which mans conjecture may easily miss : it is great boldness , out of causes concealed , to pick so great consequences , and to found matters of so great weight upon meer conjectures . thirdly , the prayer for confirmation of peters faith , whence it came , the course of the story set down in the text doth shew , it was our saviours prevision of peters danger to relapse , which danger he had certainly run into , had not our saviour extraordinarily prayed for confirmation of his faith. and the precept of confirming his brethren , is but that charitable office , which is exacted at every christians hand , that when himself had escaped so great a wrack , to be careful in warning and reclaiming others , whom common frailty drives into the like distress . these circumstances , that peter is first named amongst the disciples , that he made the first sermon , and the like , are too weak grounds to build the soveraignty over the world upon ; and that he spake ananias and sapphira dead , argues spiritual power , but not temporal . but that peter called the first council in the acts , is a circumstance beyond the text ; for concerning the calling of the council there is no word , all that is said is but this , that the disciples and elders met , no syllable of peters calling them together . that peter was 25 years bishop of rome , is not to be proved out of antiquity , before st. hierom , who shuffled it into eusebius chronicle , there being no such thing extant in his story . yea that he was bishop at all ( as now the name of bishop is taken ) may be very questionable : for the ancients that reckon up the bishops of rome until their times , as eusebius , and before him tertullian , and before them both iraeneus , never account peter as bishop of that see : and epiphanius tells us , that peter and paul were both bishops of rome at once ; by which it is plain he took the title of bishop in another sence than now it is used : for now , and so for a long time upward , two bishops can no more possess one see , than two hedge-sparrows dwell in one bush . st. peters time was a little too early for bishops to rise . answer to the bishop of romes practice of supremacy . to the first , that so many of the bishops of rome were martyrs , what makes that to the purpose ? is martyrdom an argument of the supremacy ? to the second , that victor indeavoured to excommunicate the asiatick bishops , is true ; but withall it is as true , that he was withstood for his labour : for the bishops of asia themselves did sharply reprove him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the words of eusebius ; and irenaeus wrote against him for it . to the third , that the first four councils were called by the popes , is an open falshood , for in the two first , the bishops of rome are not so much as mentioned , save only as persons cited . in the two last they are mentioned only as petitioners to the emperour . there are extant the stories of eusebius , socrates , ruffinus , theodoret , sozomenus , the acts of the councils themselves , at least some of them , the writings and epistles of leo bishop of rome . in all these there is not one word of the pope farther than a supplicant , and the whole calling of the bishops together is attributed to the emperour . take for example but the last of them . leo , bishop of rome , was desirous that some things done in a meeting of divines at ephesus , should be disannulled ; for this he becomes a suitor to theodosius the junior , to have a general council , but could never procure it of him . after his death he continues his suit to marcianus , successor to theodosius , who granted his request ; but whereas leo had requested the council might be held in italy , the emperor would not hear him ; nay which is more , the pope upon good reason , had besought the emperor to put off the day design'd for the holding of the council , but the emperor would not hear him . so that leo could do nothing , neither for the calling the council , nor for the place , nor for the time. and all this appears by leo's own epistles . if the popes could do so little well near 500 years after christ , how little could they do before , when their horns were not yet so long . the plea of the protestants concerning the corruption of the church of rome , which by them is confessed sometimes to have been pure , is no more prejudicial to christs promise to his church , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against her , than the known corruption of the churches in asia in st. johns time , or of other churches after . the close of all is a demonstration . a word unfortunately used by your author , to bewray his logick : for indeed a reason drawn from so poor and empty a sign , falls many bows wide of demonstrative proof . first , it is false that all the rest of patriarchal sees are extinct . the see of constantinople yet stands , and shews her succession of bishops from st. andrew till this day , as well as the church of rome can from st. peter : the see of alexandria yet subsists , and the bishop of that place calls him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , judge of the world , ( as my self have seen in some of his letters ) a title to which he hath as good right , as the bishop of rome hath to be the worlds sovereign . if any reply they are poor , in misery , in persecution and affliction : this can make no difference , since with christ there is neither rich nor poor , but a new creature . and again , their case now is as good as was the bishops of rome , under the ethnick emperors ; for their lot then was no other than those bishops is now . but grant that it had lasted longest , what then ? some of them must needs have consisted longer than the other , except we would suppose that they should have fallen all together . peradventure the reason of her so long lasting is no other , but that which the cyclops gives ulysses in homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ulysses should be eaten last of all . however it be , this vaunt seems but like that of the wicked servant in the gospel , tardat dominus venire , and we doubt not but a day of the lord shall overtake him who now eats and drinks , and revels with the world , and beats his fellow servants . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a70260-e7140 * plin. nat. hist . l. 28. c. 10. a defence of mr. john cotton from the imputation of selfe contradiction, charged on him by mr. dan. cavvdrey written by himselfe not long before his death ; whereunto is prefixed, an answer to a late treatise of the said mr. cavvdrey about the nature of schisme, by john owen ... cotton, john, 1584-1652. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a34675 of text r2830 in the english short title catalog (wing c6427). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 202 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 92 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a34675 wing c6427 estc r2830 13175028 ocm 13175028 98349 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a34675) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 98349) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 412:14) a defence of mr. john cotton from the imputation of selfe contradiction, charged on him by mr. dan. cavvdrey written by himselfe not long before his death ; whereunto is prefixed, an answer to a late treatise of the said mr. cavvdrey about the nature of schisme, by john owen ... cotton, john, 1584-1652. owen, john, 1616-1683. of schisme. 2 pts. in 1 vol. (100, 83 p.) printed by h. hall for t. robinson, oxford : 1658. cawdrey first attacked cotton in 1645, in a work entitled, "vindiciae clavium." cotton answered in "the way of the congregationall churches cleared," 1648. cawdrey then published "the inconsistencie of the independent way," 1651. cotton's "defence" is a reply to the charges against him in the last named work. the controversy between cawdrey and owen is as follows: owen's work "of schism" appeared in 1657, and was answered by cawdrey in "independencie, a great schism." owen rejoined in "a review of the true nature of schism," whereupon cawdrey published "independency further proved to be a schism," 1658. this was the "late treatise" to which the preface "of schisme" of the present work is a reply. reproduction of original in bodleian library. eng cawdrey, daniel, 1588-1664. -independency further proved to be a schism. cawdrey, daniel, 1588-1664. -inconsistencie of the independent way. schism -early works to 1800. a34675 r2830 (wing c6427). civilwar no a defence of mr. john cotton from the imputation of selfe contradiction, charged on him by mr. dan: cavvdrey written by himselfe not long be cotton, john 1658 36087 7 115 0 0 0 0 34 c the rate of 34 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-03 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-04 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2005-04 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of mr. john cotton from the imputation of selfe contradiction , charged on him by mr. dan : cavvdrey written by himselfe not long before his death . whereunto is prefixed , an answer to a late treatise of the said mr. cavvdrey about the nature of schisme . by john owen : d : d : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , tit. 1. 7. oxford , printed by h : hall ; for t. robinson . 1658. christian reader , i have not much to say unto thee , concerning the insuing treatise ; it will speake for it selfe with all impartiall men ; much lesse shall i insist on the commendation of it's authour , who also being dead {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; and will be so i am perswaded , whilest christ hath a church upon the earth ; the treatise it selfe was written sundry yeeres agoe , immediately upon the publishing of mr cawdryes accusation against him ; i shall not need to give an account whence it hath been , that it saw the light no sooner ; it may suffice , that in mine own behalfe and of others , i doe acknowledge that in the doing of sundry things seeming of more importance , this ought not to have been omitted ; the judgment of the authour approving of this vindication of himselfe as necessary , considering the place he held in the church of god , should have been a rule unto us , for the performance of that duty , which is owing to his worth and piety , in doing and suffering for the truth of god . it is now about 7 months agoe , since it came into my hands ; and since i ingaged my selfe into the publication of it , my not immediate proceeding therein , being sharply rebuked by a fresh charge upon my selfe from that hand , under which this worthy person so farre suffered , as to be necessitated to the ensuing defensative , i have here discharged that ingagement . the author of the charge against him , in his epistle to that against me , tel's his reader , that it is thought that it was intended by another ( and now promised by my selfe ) to be published to cast a slurre upon him ; so are our intentions judged , so our wayes , by thoughts and reports ; why a vindication of mr cotton should cast a slurre upon mr cawdry i know not ; is he concern'd in spirit or reputation in the acquitment of an holy , reverend person now at rest with christ , from imputations of inconstancie and selfe contradiction ? is there not roome enough in the world , to beare the good names of mr cotton and mr cawdry ? but that if one be vindicated the other must be slurred ? he shall find now by experience , what assistance he found from him who loved him , to beare his charge , and to repell it , without any such reflection on his accuser , as might savour of an intention to slurre him ; mala mens , malus animus ; the measure that men feare from others , they have commonly meted out unto them before hand ; he wishes those that intend to rake in the ashes of the dead , to consider whether they shall deserve any thankes for their labour . how the covering of the dead with their own comely garments , comes to be a raking into their ashes , i know not ; his name is alive , though he be dead ; it was that , not his person , that was attempted to be wounded , by the charge against him ; to powre forth that balme for it 's healing , now he is dead , which himselfe provided whilest he was alive , without adding or diminishing one syllable , is no rakeing into his ashes ; and i hope the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of the reverend authour , will not allow him to be offended , that this friendly office is performed to a dead brother ; to publish this his defence of his own innocency , written in obedience to a prime dictate of the law of nature , against the wrong which was not done him in secret . but the intendment of this prefatory discourse , being my own concernment , in reference to a late tract of mr cawdries , bearing in it's title and superscription , a vindication from my unjust clamours and false aspersions ; i shall not detaine the reader with any farther discourse of that , which he will find fully debated in the insuing treatise it selfe ; but immediately addresse my selfe to that , which is my present peculiar designe ; by what wayes and meanes the difference betwixt us is come to that issue wherein now it stands stated , in the expressions before mentioned , i shall not need to repeat . who first let out those waters of strife , who hath filled their streames with bitternesse , clamour & false aspersions , is left to the judgment of all , that feare the lord , who shall have occasion at any time to reflect upon those discourses ; how ever it is come to passe , i must acknowledge that the state of the controversy betweene us is now degenerated into such an uselesse strife of words , as that i dare publickly owne engagemēts into studies of so much more importance unto the interest of truth , piety , and literature , as that i cannot with peace in my own retirements , be much farther conversant therein . only whereas i am not in the least convinced , that mr cawdry hath given satisfaction to my former expostulations , about the injuries done me in his other treatise , and hath evidently added to the number and weight of them in this , i could not but lay hold of this opportunity given , by my discharging a former promise , once more to remind him of some miscarriages , exceedingly unbecomeing his profession and calling ; which i shall doe in a briefe review of his epistle and treatise . upon the consideration whereof , without charging him or his way with schisme , in great letters on the title-page of this book , i doubt not but it will appear , that the guilt of the crime he falsly , unjustly , & uncharitably chargeth upon others , may be laid more equitably at his own door ; and that the shortnesse of the covering to hide themselves , used by him and others from the inquisition made after them for schisme , upon their own principles , will not be supplyed by such outcryes as those he is pleased to use after them , who are least of all men concerned in the matter under contest , there being no solid medium , whereby they may be impleaded . and in this discourse , i shall , as i suppose , put an end to my engagement in this controversy ; i know no man whose patience will inable him to abide alwayes in the consideration of things to so little purpose ; were it not that men beare themselves on high by resting on the partiall adherence of many to their dictates , it were impossible they should reape any contentment in their retirements from such a management of controversies as this ; independency is a great schisme , it hath made all the divisions amongst us , brownists , anabaptists , and all sectaries are independents ; they deny our ministers and churches , they seperate from us , all errors come from among them , this i have been told , and that i have heard , is the summe of this treatise ; who they are of whom he speakes , how they came into such a possession of all church state in england , that all that are not with them are schismatickes ; how de jure , or de facto , they came to be so instated ; what claime they can make to their present stations , without schisme , on their own principles ; whether granting the church of england as constituted when they and we begun that , which we call reformation , to have been a true instituted church they have any power of rule in it , but what hath been got by violence ; what , that is purely theirs , hath any pretence of establishment , from the scripture , antiquity , and the lawes of this land ? i say with these and the like things , which are incumbent on him to cleare up , before his charges with us will be of any value , our authour troubleth not himselfe . but to proceed to the particulars by him insisted on . 1. he tels the reader in his epistle , that his unwillingnesse to this rejoinder was heightned by the necessity he found , of discovering some personall weaknesses and forgetfulnesses in me , upon my deny all of some things which were known to be true , if he should proceed therin ; for what he intimates of the unpleasantnesse that it is to him , to discover things of that importance in me , when he professeth his designe to be to impaire my authority , so far that the cause i own may receive no countenance thereby ; i leave it to him , who will one day reveale the secrets of all hearts , which at present are open and naked unto him ; but how i pray are the things by me denyed known to be true ? seeing it was unpleasant and distastfull to him to insist upon them , men might expect that his evidence of them , was not only open , cleare , undenyable , and manifest as to it's truth , but cogent as to their publication ; the whole insisted on is , if there be any truth in reports ; hic nigrae succus loliginis , haec est aerugo mera ; is this a bottome for a minister of the gospel to proceed upon , to such charges as those insinuated ; is not the course of nature set on fire at this day , by reports ? is any thing more contrary to the royall law of charity , than to take up reports as the ground of charges and accusations ? is there any thing more unbecoming a man , laying aside all considerations of christianity , than to suffer his judgment to be tainted , much more his words , and publick expressions in charging , & accusing others to be regulated by reports ? and whereas we are commanded to speak evill of no man , may we not on this ground , speak evill of all men , and justify our selves by saying it is so , if reports be true ? the prophet tel's us , that a combination for his defaming and reproach was managed among his adversaries , jer. 20. 10. i have heard the defaming of many , feare on every side , report say they , and we will report it ; if they can have any to goe before them in the transgression of that law , which he who knowes how the tongues of men are set on fire of hell , gave out to lay a restraint upon them , thou shalt not raise a false report , exod. 23. 1. they will second it , and spread it abroad to the utmost , for his disadvantage and trouble ; whether this procedure of our reverend authour , come not up to the practice of their designe , i leave to his own conscience to judge . should men suffer their spirits to be heightned by provocations of this nature , unto a recharge from the same offensive dunghill of reports , what monsters should we speedily be transformed unto ? but this being far frō being the only place wherein appeale is made to reports and hearesayes by our authour , i shall have occasion in the consideration of the severals of them , to reassume this discourse . for what he addes about the space of time wherein my former reply was drawn up , because i know not whether he had heard any report insinuated to the contrary to what i affirmed , i shall not trouble him with giving evidence thereunto : but only adde that here he hath the product of halfe that time , which i now interpose upon the review of my transcribed papers : only whereas it is said that mc cawdry is an antient man ; i cannot but wonder he should be so easy of beliefe ; arist. rhetor . lib. 2. c. 18. tel's us , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and not apt to believe ; whence on all occasions of discourse {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; but he believes all that comes to hand with an easy faith , which he hath totally in his own power , to dispose of at pleasure . that i was in passion when i wrote my review is his judgment ; but this is but man's day ; we are in expectation of that , wherein the world shall be judged in righteousnesse ; it is to possible that my spirit was not in that frame in all things , wherein it ought to have been ; but that the reverend authour knowes not ; i have nothing to say to this , but that of the philosopher — {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , epic. cap. 48. much i confesse , was not spoken by me ( which he afterwards insisteth on ) to the argumentative part of his booke , which as in an answer i was not to looke for , so to find , had been a difficult taske . as he hath nothing to say , unto the differences among themselves both in judgment and practice , soe how little there is , in his recrimination of the differences among us , as that one and the same man differeth from himselfe , which charge he casts upon mr cotton and my selfe , will speedily be manifested to all impartiall men . for the treatise it selfe whose consideration i now proceed unto , that i may reduce what i have to say unto it , unto the bounds intended in confining my defensative unto this preface to the treatise of another , i shall referre it unto certaine heads , that will be comprehensive of the whole , and give the reader a cleare and distinct view thereof . i shall begin with that which is least handled in the two bookes of this reverend author , though the summe of what was pleaded by me in my treatise of schisme . for the discovery of the true nature of schisme , and the vindication of them who were falsly charged with the crime thereof , i layd downe two principles as the foundation of all that i asserted in the whole cause insisted on ; which may briefly be reduced to these two syllogismes . 1. if in all and every place of the new testament where there is mention made of schisme , name , or thing , in an ecclesiasticall sence ; there is nothing intended by it , but a divisiō in a particular church ; then that is the proper scripture notion of schisme in the ecclesiasticall sence ; but in all and every place &c : ergo , the proposition being cleare and evident in it's own light , the assumption was confirmed in my treatise , by an induction of the severall instances that might any way seeme to belong unto it . my second principle was raised upon a concession of the generall nature of schisme restrained with one necessary limitation and amounts unto this argument . if schisme in an ecclesiasticall sense , be the breach of an union of christ's institution , then they who are not guilty of the breach of any union of christ's institution , are not guilty of schisme ; but so is schisme , ergò , the proposition also of this syllogisme with it's inference being unquestionable , for the confirmation of the assumption i considered the nature of all church union as instituted by christ , and pleaded the innocency of those whose defence in several degrees i had undertaken , by their freedome from the breach of any church union . not finding the reverend authour in his first answer to speake clearely and distinctly to either of those principles , but to proceed in a course of perpetual diversion , from the thing in question , with reflections , charges &c : all rather i hope out of an unacquaintednesse with the true nature of argumentation , than any perversenesse of spirit , in cavilling at what he found he could not answer ; i earnestly desired him in my review that we might have a faire and friendly meeting , personally to debate these principles which he had undertaken to oppose , and so to prevent trouble to our selves and others , in writing and reading things remote from the merit of the cause under agitation ; what returnes i have had hereto , the reader is now acquainted withall , from his rejoinder , the particulars where of shall be farther enquired into afterward . the other parts of his two bookes consist in his charges upon me , about my judgment in sundry particulars , not relating , in the least that i can as yet understand , unto the controversy in hand ; as to his excursions , about brownists , anabaptists seekers ; rending the peace of their churches , seperating from them , the errours of the seperatists , and the like , i cannot apprehend my selfe concerned to take notice of them ; to the other things an answer shall be returned , and a defence made , so farre as i can judge it necessary . it may be our author seekes a releife from the charge of schisme that lyes upon him and his party ( as they are called ) from others , by mannaging the same charge against them , who he thinkes will not returne it upon them : but for my part , i shall assure him that were he not in my judgment more acacquitted upon my principles than upon his owne , i should be necessitated to stand upon even termes with him herein ; but to have advantages from want of charity , as the donatists had against the catholickes , is no argument of a good cause . in the first chapter there occurs not any thing of reall difference as to the cause under agitation , that should require a review , being spent wholy in things {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . and therefore i shall briefly animadvert on what seemes of most concernment therein , in the manner of his procedure . his former discourse , and this also consisting much of my words perverted by adding in the close something that might wrest them to his owne purpose , he tels me in the beginning of his third chapter , that this is to turne my testimony against my selfe , which is , as he saith , and allowed way of the clearest victory , which it seemes he aimeth at ; but nothing can be more remote from being defended with that pretence than this his way of proceeding . 't is not of urging a testimony from me , against me , that i complained , but the perverting of my words , by either heading , or closeing of them with his owne , quite to other purposes than those of their owne intendment : a way whereby any man may make other mens words to speake what he pleaseth ; as mr biddle hy his leading questions , and knitting of scriptures to his expressions in them , makes an appearance of constraining the word of god to speake out all his socinian blasphemies . in this course he still continues ; and his very entrance gives us a pledge of what we are to expect in the processe of his management of the present businesse ; whereas i had said , that considering the various interests of parties at difference , there is no great successe to be promised by the management of controversies , though with never so much evidence and conviction of truth ; to the repetition of my words he subjoines the instance of sectaries , not restrained by the clearest demonstration of truth ; not weighing how facile a taske it is , to supply presbyterians in their room ; which in his account is , it seemes , to turne his testimony against himselfe , & as he somewhere phraseth it , to turne the point of his sword into his owne bowels ; but , nobis non licet esse tam disertis ; neither do we here , either learne or teach any such way of disputation . his following leaves are spent for the most part in slighting the notion of schisme by me insisted on , and in reporting my arguments for it ( p. 8 , 9 , 12. ) in such a way and manner , as argues that he either never understood them , or is willing to pervert them . the true nature and importance of them i have before laid downe , and shall not now againe repeat : though i shall adde that his frequent repetition of his disproving that principle , which it appeares , that he never yet contended with all , in its full strength , brings but little advantage to his cause , with persons whose interest doth not compell them to take up things on trust . how well he cleares himselfe from the charge of reviling and useing opprobrious reproachful termes , although he professe himselfe to have been astonished at the charge , may be seen in his justification of himselfe therein . pag. 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. with his reinforceing every particular expression instanced in ; and yet he tels me , for inferring that he discovered sanguinary thoughts in reference unto them whose removall from their native soyle into the wildernesse , he affirmes , england's happinesse would have consisted in , that he hath much adoe to forbeare once more to say the lord rebuke thee : for my part , i have received such a satisfactory tast of his spirit and way , that as i shall not from henceforth desire him to keep in any thing , that he can hardly forbeare to let out , but rather to use his utmost liberty ; so i must assure him that i am very little concerned , or not at all , in what he shall be pleased to say , or to forbeare for the time to come ; himselfe hath freed me of that concernment . the first particular of value insisted on , is his charge upon me for the deniall of all the churches of england to be true churches of christ , except the churches gathered , in a congregationall way : having frequently and without hesitation charged this opinion upon me in his first answer , knowing it to be very false , i expostulated with him about it in my reveiw . insteed of accepting the satisfaction tendered in my expresse deniall of any such thought or perswasion , or tendering any satisfaction as to the wrong done me , he seekes to justify himselfe in his charge , and so persisteth therein . the reasons he gives of his so doing are not unworthy a little to be remarked . the first is this ; he supposed me to be an independent , and therefore made that charge ; the consequent of which supposition is much to weake , to justify this reverend authour in his accusation ; doth he suppose that he may without offence , lay what he please to the charge of an independent ? but he saith secondly , that he tooke the word independent , generally , as comprehending brownists , & anabaptists , and other sectaries : but herein also he doth but delude his owne conscience , seeing he personally speakes to me and to my designe in that booke of schisme , which he undertook to confute ; which also removes his third intimation , that he formerly intended any kind of independency , &c : the rest that follow are of the same nature , and however compounded will not make a salve to heale the wound made in his reputation by his own weapon ; for the learned author , called vox populi , which he is pleased here to urge ? i first question whither he be willing to be produced to maintaine this charge ; and if he shall appeare ; i must needs tell him , ( what he here questions whether it be so , or no ) that he is a very lyar . for any principles in my treatise , whence a denyall of their ministers and churches may be regularly deduced , let him produce them if he can ; and if not , acknowledge that there had been a more christian and ingenious way of coming off an ingagement into that charge , then that by him chosen to be insisted on ; animos & iram ex crimine sumunt . and againe we have vox populi cited on the like occasion , pag. 34 ; about my refusall to answer whither i were a minister or not ; which as the thing it selfe of such a refusal of mine on any occasion in the world , ( because it must be spoken ) is purum putum mendacium , so it is no truer , that , that was vox populi at oxford which is pretended ; that which is vox populi , must be publicke : publicum was once populicum ; now setting aside the whispers , of it may be two or three ardelio's , notorious triflers , whose lavish impertinency , will deliver any man from the danger of being slandered by their tongues , and there will be little gound left for the report , that is fathered on vox populi : and i tell him here once againe ( which is a sufficient answer indeed to his whole first chapter ) that i doe not deny presbyterian churches to be true churches of jesus christ , nor the ministers of them to be true ministers , nor doe maintaine a nullity in their ordination as to what is the proper use and end of ordination , ( takeing it in the sense , wherin by them it is taken , ) though i think it neither administred by them in due order , nor to have in it selfe that force and efficacy , singly considered , which by many of them is ascribed unto it . thus much of my judgment i have publiquely declared long agoe , and i thought i might have expected from persons professing christianity , that they would not voluntarily engage themselves into an opposition against me , and waveing my judgment which i had constantly published and preached , have gathered up reports from private and table discourses , most of them false and untrue , all of them uncertaine , the occasions and coherences of those discourses from whence they have been raised and taken , being utterly lost , or at present by him wholly omitted . his following excursions about a successive ordination from rome , wherein he runnes crosse to the most eminent lights of all the reformed churches , and their declared judgments , with practise in reordaining those who come unto them with that romane stampe upon them , i shall not further interest my selfe in , nor think my selfe concerned so to doe , untill i see a satisfactory answer given unto beza and others in this very point ; and yet i must here againe professe , that i cannot understand that distinction of deriveing ordination from the church of rome , but not from the roman church . let him but seriously peruse these ensuing words of beza , and tell me whither he have any ground of a particular quarrell against me upon this account . sed praeterea quaenam ista est quaeso ordinaria vocatio , quam eos habuisse dicis , quos deus paucis quibusdam except is , excitavit ? certe papistica . nam haec tua verba sunt ; hodie si episcopi gallicanarum ecclesiarum se & suas ecclesias à tyrannide episcopi romani vindicare velint , & eas ab omni idololatria & superstitione repurgare , non habent opus alia vocatione ab ea quam habent . quid ergo ? papisticas ordinationes , in quibus neque morum examen praecessit , neque leges ullae servatae sunt inviolabiliter ex divino jure in electionibus & ordinationibus praescriptae , in quibus puri etiam omnes canones impudentissime violati sunt : quae nihil aliud sunt , quam foedissima romani prostibulin undinatio , quavis meretricum mercede , quam deus templo suo inferri prohibuit , inquinatior : quibus denique alii non ad praedicandum sed pervertendum evangelium : alii non ad docendum , sed adrursus sacrificandum , & ad abominandum {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} sunt ordinati , usque adeo firmas tecum esse censebimus , ut quoties tali cuipiam pseudoepiscopo , deus concesserit ad verum christianismum transire omnis illa istiusmodi ordinationis impuritas simul expurgata censeatur ? imo quia sic animum per dei gratiam mutavit , quo ore , quo pudore , qua conscientia papismum quidem detestabitur , suam autem inordinatissimam ordinationem non ejurabit ? aut si , ejuret , quomodo ex illius jure auctoritatem dicendi habebit . nec tamen nego quin tales , si probe doctrinam veram tenere , si honest is moribus praediti , si ad gregem pascendum apti comperiantur , ex pseudoepiscopis novi pastores , legitime designentur ; thus he ; who was thought then to speake the sense of the churches of geneva and france ; in his book against saravia about the diverse orders of ministers in the church : his plea for the church-authority of the pope , notwithstanding his being an idolater , a murderer , theman of sinne an adversary of christ ; because a civill magistrate doth not by any morall crime or those whereof the pope is guilty , loose his jurisdiction and authority , considering the different principles , grounds , ends , laws , rules , priviledges of the authority of the one , and the other , and the severall tenures , whereby the one doth hold , and the other pretends to hold his power , is brought in to serve the turne in hand , and may be easily layd aside ? and when he shall manifest , that there is appointed by christ , one single high-preist or prelate in the house of god the whole church ; and that office to be confined to one nation , one blood , one family , propagated by naturall generation , without any provision of reliefe by any other way , person or family in case of miscarriage ; and when he shall have proved that such an officer as the pope of rome , in any one particular that constituteth him such an officer , was once instituted by christ , i shall farther attend unto his reason for his authority from that of the high-priests among the jewes , which was not lost as to it's continuance in the family of aaron notwithstanding the miscarriage of some individuall person vested therewithall ; in the close of the chapter he reassumes his charge of my renouncing my owne ordination which with great confidence , and without the least scruple , he had asserted in his answer ; of that assersion he now pretends to give the reasons , whereof the first is this . 1. the world lookes on him as an independent of the highest note ; therefore he hath renounced his ordination ; and therefore i dare to say so . so much for that reason . i understand neither the logick nor morality of this first reason . 2. he knowes from good hands that some of the brethren have renounced their ordination ; therefore he durst say positively that i have renounced mine . prov. 12. 18. 3. he hath heard that i disswaded others from their ordination , and therefore he durst say i renownced my owne ; and yet i suppose he may possibly disswade some from episcopall ordination : but i know it not , no more than he knowes what he affirmes of me which is false . 4. he concludes from the principles in my book of schisme ; because i said that to insist upon a succession of ordination from anti-christ and the beast of rome would if i mistake not keep up in this particular what god would have pulled down , therefore i renounced my ordination ; when he knowes that i avowed the validity of ordination on another account . 5. if all this will not doe , , he tels me of something that was said at a publique meeting ( at dinner it seemes ) with the canons of chhist-church , viz : that i vallued not my ordination by the bishop of oxford any more than a crum upon my trencher ; which words whether ever they were spoken or no , or to what purpose , or in reference to what ordination , ( i meane of the two orders ) or in what sense , or with what limitation , or as part of what discourse , or in comparison of what else , or whither solely in refference to the roman succession , in which sense i will have nothing to doe with it , i know not at all ; nor will concerne my selfe to enquire ; being greatly ashamed to find men professing the religion of jesus christ , so farre forgetfull of all common rules of civility and principles of humane society , as to insist upon such vaine groundlesse reports as the foundations of accusations against their brethren ! nor doe i believe that any one of the reverend persons quoted will owne this information ; although i shall not concerne my selfe to make enquiry into their memories concerning any such passage or discourse . much reliefe for the future against these and the like mistakes may be afforded from an easy observation of the different senses wherein the terme of ordination is often used ; it is one thing when it is taken largely for the whole appointment of a man to the ministry ; in which sense i desire our authour to consider what is written by beza among reformed , and gerhard among the lutheran divines ; to omit innumerable others ; another thing when taken for the imposition of hand , whither by bishops or presbyters ; concerning which single act , both as to its order , & efficacy , i have sufficiently delivered my judgment , if he be pleased to take notice of it . i feare indeed that when men speak of an ordained ministry ; which in its true and proper sense i shall with them contend for , they often relate only to that solemnity , restraining the authoritative making of ministers singly thereunto ; contrary to the intention and meaning of that expression , in scripture , antiquity , and the best reformed divines , both calvinists , and lutherans ; and yet it is not imaginable how some men prevaile by the noise and sound of that word , upon the prejudiced minds of partiall unstudied men . a litle time may farther manifest , if it be not sufficiently done already ; that another account is given of this matter , by clemens , tertullian , cyprian , origen , justin martyr , and generally all the first writers of christians ; besides the counsels of old & late , with innumerable protestant authors of the best note to the same purpose . this i say is the ground of this mistake ; whereas sundry things concurre to the calling of ministers , as it belongs to the church of god , the ground and pillar of truth , the spouse of christ , psal. 45. and mother of the family , or she that tarryeth at home , psal. 68. unto whom all ministers are stewards , 1 cor. 4. 1. even in that house of god , 1 tim. 3. 15. and sundry qualifications are indispensably previously required in the persons to be called ; overlooking the necessity of the qualifications required , and omitting the duty and authority of the church , acts 1. 15. acts 6. 2. 13. 2. 14. 22. the act of them who are not the whole church , ephes. 4. 11 , 12. but only a part of it , 1 cor. 3. 21. 2 cor. 1. 24. 1 pet. 5. 3. as to ministry , consisting in the approbation and solemne confirmation , of what is supposed to go before , hath in some mens language , gotten the name of ordination , and an interpretation of that name to such an extent , as to enwrap in it , all that is indispensably necessary to the constitution or making of ministers ; so that where that is obtained , in what order soever , or by whom soever administred , who have first obtained it themselves , there is a lawfull and sufficient calling to the ministry . indeed , i know no errour , about the institutions of christ , attended with more pernitious consequences to the church of god , then this ; should it be practised , according to the force of the principle its selfe . suppose six , eight , or ten men , who have themselves been formerly ordained ; but now perhaps , not by any ecclesiasticall censure , but by an act of the civill magistrate , are put out of their places , for notorious ignorance and scandall ; should concurre and ordaine an hundred ignorant and wicked persons like themselves , to be ministers : must they not on this principle be all accounted ministers of christ , and to be invested with all ministeriall power ; and so be enabled to propagate their kind to the end of the world ; and indeed why should not this be granted , seeing the whole bulke of the papall ordination is contended for as valid ; whereas it is notoriously knowne , that sundry bishops among them ( who perhaps received their own ordination as the reward of a whore ) being persons of vitious lives , and utterly ignorant of the gospell , did sustaine their pompe and sloth , by selling holy orders as they called them , to the scum and refuse of men ; but of these things , more in their proper place . take then reader , the substance of this chapter ; in this briefe recapitulation . 1. he denies our churches to be true churches , and our ministers true ministers . 2. he hath renounced his owne ordination . 3. when some young men came to advise about their ordination he diswaded them from it . 4. he saith he would maintaine against all the ministers of england , there was in scripture no such thing as ordination . 5. that when he was chosen a parliament man he would not answer whether he was a minister or not ; all which are notoriously untrue , and some of them , namely the two last , so remote from any thing to give a pretence or colour unto them , that i question whether satan have impudence enough to owne himselfe their author ; and yet from hearesayes , reports , rumours , from table talk , vox populi , and such other grounds of reasoning this reverend author hath made them his owne , and by such a charge , hath i presume , in the judgment of all unprejudiced men , discharged me from further attending to what he shall be prompted from the like principles to divulge , for the same end and purposes , which hitherto he hath managed , for the future . for my judgment about their ministry , and ordination , about the nature and efficacy of ordination , the state and power of particular churches , my owne station in the ministry , which i shall at all times through the grace and assistance of our lord jesus christ , freely justify against men and devills , it is so well knowne , that i shall not need here further to declare it : for the true nature and notion of schisme , alone by me enquired after , in this chapter , as i said , i find nothing offerd thereunto : only whereas i restrained the ecclesiasticall use of the word schisme to the sense wherein it is used , in the places of scripture , that mention it with relation to church affaires , which that it ought not to be so , nothing but asseverations to the contrary are produced to evince ; this is interpreted , to extend to all that i would allow as to the nature of schisme it selfe , which is most false ; though i said if i would proceed no farther , i might not be compelled so to do , seeing in things of this nature we may crave allowance to think and speak with the holy ghost : however , i expressely comprised in my proposition all the places wherein the nature of schisme is delivered under what termes or words soever . when then i shall be convinced , that such discourses as those of this treatise , made up of diversions into things wholy forraigne to the inquiry by me insisted on , in the investigation of the true notion and nature of schisme , with long talkes about anabaptists , brownists , sectaries , independents , presbyterians , ordination , with charges and reflections grounded on this presumption , that this author and his party , ( for we will no more contend about that expression ) are in solidum possessed of all true and orderly church state in england , so that whosoever are not of them , are schismaticks , and i know not what besides , he being — gallinae filius albae nos viles pulli nati infelicibus ovis ; i shall farther attend unto them . i must farther adde that i was not so happy as to foresee that because i granted the roman party before the reformation to have made outwardly a profession of the religion of christ , although i expressed them to be really a party combined together , for all ends of wickednesse , and in particular for the extirpation of the true church of christ in the world , having no state of union but what the holy ghost calls babilon in opposition to syon , our reverend author would conclude as he doth pag. 34. that i allowed them to be a true church of christ ; but it is impossible for wiser men then i , to see farre into the issue of such discourses ; and therefore we must take in good part what doth fall out ; and if the reverend author , insteed of having his zeale warmed against me , would a little bestirre his abilities , to make out to the understandings and consciences of uninterested men , that all ecclesiasticall power being vested in the pope and councills , by the consent of that whole combination of men called the church of rome , and flowing from the pope in its execution to all others ; who in the derivation of it from him , owned him as the immediate fountaine of it , which they sware to maintaine in him , and this in opposition to all church power in any other persons whatsoever ; it was possible that any power should be derived from that combination , but what came expressely from the fountaine mentioned . i desire our author would consider the frame of spirit that was in this matter , in them , who first laboured in the worke of reformation , and to that end peruse the stories of lasitius , and regenuolscius about the churches of bohemia , poland , and those parts of the world , especially the latter from pag. 29. 30. and forward . and as to the distinction used by some , between the papacy , and the church of rome , which our author makes use of to another purpose , then those did , who first invented it , ( extending it only to the consideration of the possibility of salvation for individuall persons living in that communion before the reformation ) i hope he will not be angry if i professe my disability to understand it . all men cannot be wise alike ; if the papacy comprise the pope , and all papall jurisdiction and power , with the subjection of men thereunto , if it denote all the idolatries , false worship , and heresies of that society of men ; i do know that all those are confirmed by church acts of that church : and that in the church publick sense of that church , no man was a member of it but by virtue of the union that consisted in that papacy , it being placed alwaies by them in all their definitions of their church ; as also hat there was neither church order , nor church power , nor church act , nor church confession , nor church worship amongst them , but what consisted in that papacy . now because nothing doth more frequently , occurre then the objection of the difficulty in placing the dispensation of baptisme on a sure foot account , in case of the rejection of all authoritative influence from rome into the ministry of the reformed churches , with the insinuation of a supposition of the nonbaptization of all sutch , as derive not a title unto it , by that meanes , they who do so being supposed to stand upon an unquestionable foundation , i shall a little examine the grounds of their security , and then compare them with what they have to plead , who refuse to acknowledg the deriving any sap or noushriment from that rotten corrupt stock . it is i suppose , taken for granted , that an unbaptized person can never effectually baptize , let him receive what other qualifications soever that are to be superadded , or necessary thereunto . if this be not supposed the whole weight of the objection improved by the worst supposition that can be made , falls to the ground . i shall also desire in the next place , that as we cannot make the popish baptisme , better then it is , so that we would not plead it to be better , or any other , then they professe it to be ; nor pretend , that though it be rotten or null in the foundation , yet by continuance and time it might obtaine validity and strength . when the claime is by succession from such a stock or root , if you suppose once a totall intercision in the succession from that stock or root , there is an utter end put to that claime ; let us now consider how the case is with them from whom this claime is derived . 1. it is notoriously knowne , that amongst them the validity of the sacraments depends upon the intention of the administrator : it is so with them , as to every thing they call a sacrament : now to take one step backwards : that baptisme will by some of ours , be scarce accounted valid , which is not administred by a lawfull minister ; suppose now that some pope ordaining a bishop in his stable to satisfy a whore , had not an intention to make him a bishop , which is no remote surmise ; he being no bishop rightly ordained , all the priests by him afterwards consecrated , were indeed no priests , and so indeed had no power to administer any sacraments , and so consequently the baptisme that may lye , for ought we know , at the root of that which some of us pretend unto , was originally absolutely null and void , and could never by tract of time , be made valid , or effectuall , for like a muddy fountaine , the farther it goes , the more filthy it is : or suppose that any priest , baptizing one who afterwards came to be pope from whom all authority in that church doth flow and is derived , had no intention to baptize him ? what will become of all that ensues thereon . it is endlesse to pursue the uncertainties , and intanglements , that insue on this head of account ; and sufficiently easy it is to manifest , that whosoever resolves his interest in gospell priviledges , into this foundation , can have no assurance of faith nay nor tolerably probable conjecture that he is baptized , or was ever made partaker of any ordinance of the gospell . let them that delight in such troubled waters , sport themselves in them : for my owne part , considering the state of that church for some yeares if not ages , wherein the fountaines of all authority amongst them , were full of filth and blood , there popes upon their owne confession being made , set up and pulled downe at the pleasure of vile , impudent domineering strumpets , and supplying themselves with officers all the world over of the same spirit , and stamp with themselves , and that for the most part for hire , being in the meane time all idolaters to a man ; i am not willing to grant , that their good and upright intention is necessary to be supposed as a thing requisite unto my interest in any priviledge of the gospell of christ . 2. it is an ecclesiasticall determination of irrefragable authority amongst them , that whosoever he be that administers baptisme , so he use the matter and forme , that baptisme is good and valid and not to be reiterated : yea pope nicholas in his resolutions and determinations upon the enquiry of the bulgarians , ( whose decrees are authentick and recorded in their counsells , tom : 2. crabb : p. 144. ) declares the judgment of that church to the full : they tell him , that many in their nation were baptized by an unknowne person , a jew or a pagan they knew not whether ; and enquire of him , whether they were to be rebaptized or no ; whereunto he answers ; si in nomine s. s. trinitatis , vel tantum in christi nomine , sicut in act is apostolorum legimus , baptizati sunt , unum quippe idemque est , ut s. ambrosius expressit , constat eos denuo non esse baptizandos : if they were baptized in the name of the trinity or of christ , they are not to be baptized againe . let a blasphemous jew or pagan do it , so it be done the work is wrought , grace conveyed , and baptisme valid . the constant practise of women baptizing amongst them , is of the same import : and what doth mr cawdry think of this kind of baptisme ? is it not worth the contending about , to place it in the derived succession of ours ? who knowes but that some of these persons , baptized by a counterfeit impostor , on purpose to abuse and defile the institutions of our blessed saviour , might come to be baptizers themselves , yea bishops , or popes ; from whom all ecclesiasticall authority was to be derived ; and what evidence or certainty can any man have , that his baptisme doth not flow from this fountaine . 3. nay upon the generall account , if this be required as necessary to the administration of that ordinance , that he that doth baptize , be rightly and effectually baptized himselfe ; who can in faith bring an infant to any , to be baptized , unlesse he himselfe saw that person rightly baptized . as to the matter of baptisme then , we are no more concerned , then as to that of ordination ; by what waies or meanes soever any man comes to be a minister , according to the mind of jesus christ ; by that way and meanes he comes to have power for a due administration of that ordinance : concerning which state of things , our author may do well to consult beza in the place mentioned . many other passages there are in this chapter , that might be remarked , and a returne easily made according to their desert of untruth and impertinency ; but the insisting on such things , lookes more like childrens playing at pushpin , then the management of a serious disputation : take an instance , pag. 23. he seemes to be much offended with my commending him ; and tells me , as jerome said of ruffinus , i wrong him with prayses ; when yet the utmost i say of him is , that i had received a better character of him , then he had given of himselfe in his book , pag. 10. and that his proceeding was unbecoming his worth , gravity and profession , pag. 46. or so grave and reverend a person as he is reported to be , pag. 121. wherein it seemes i have transgressed the rule , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . the businesse of his second chapter is to make good his former charge of my inconstancy and inconsistency with my selfe as to my former and present opinions , which he had placed in the frontispiece of his other treatise . the impertinency of this chapter had beene intolerable , but that the loose discourses of it are relieved by a scheme of my self-contradictions in the close . his designe , he professeth , in his former discourse was not to blast my reputation , or to cause my person to suffer , but to prevent the prevalency of my way by the authority of my person , that is , it was not his intention , it was only his intention for such a purpose . i blesse my god i have good security through grace , that whether he , or others like minded with himselfe , intend any such thing or no , in those proceedings of his and theirs , which seemed to have in their owne nature , a tendency thereunto , my reputation shall yet be preserved in that state and condition , as is necessary to accompany me in the duties and workes of my generation , that i shall through the hand of god be called out unto ; and therefore being prepared in some measure , to go through good report and bad report , i shall give him assurance , that i am very litle concerned in such attempts , from what ever intention they do proceed ; only i must needs tell him , that he consulted not his owne reputation with peaceable godly men , what ever else he omitted , in the ensuing comparing of me to the seducers in jude , called wandring planets , for their inconstancy and inconsistency with themselves , according to the exposition that was needfull for the present turne . but seeing the scheme at the close must beare the weight of this charge , let us briefly see what it amounts unto ; and whether it be a sufficient basis of the sustruction , that is raised upon it ; hence it is , that my inconsistency with my selfe , must be remarked in the title page of his first treatise ; from hence must my authority ( which what it is i know not ) be impaired , and my selfe be compared to cursed apostates and seducers , and great triumph be made and upon my selfe inconsistency . the contradictions pretended are taken out of two bookes , the one written in the yeare 1643. the other in 1656. and are as followes . he spake of rome as a collapsed , corrupted church-state . p. 40. he saies rome we account no church at all . pag. 156. crimen in auditum c. caesar ; is it meet that any one should be tolerated , that is thus wofully inconsistent with himselfe ? what ! speak of rome as a collapsed church in italy , and within thirteene , or fourteene yeares after to say , it is no church at all ; well ! though i may say there is indeed no contradiction between these assertions , seeing in the latter place i speak of rome as that church is stated by themselves , when yet i acknowledge there may be corrupted churches both in rome and italy in the same treatise ; yea i do not find that in the place directed unto , i have in termes , or in just consequence at all granted the church of rome to be a collapsed church : nay the church of rome is not once mentioned in the whole page , nor as such is spoken of : and what shall we think of this proceeding ? but yet i will not so farre offend against my sense of my owne weaknes , ignorance and frailty , as to use any defensative against this charge ; let it passe at any rate that any sober man freed from pride , passion , selfefulnesse , and prejudice shall be pleased to put upon it ; — {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . but the second instance will make amends , and take more of the weight of this charge upon its shoulders : take it then as it lies in its triple columne . guifts in the person , and consent of people , is warrant enough to make a man a preacher in an extraordinary case ? only pag. 15. and pag. 40. denying our ordination to be sufficient , he sayes he may have that which indeed constitutes him a minister , viz : guifts and submission by the people p. 198. i am punctually of the same mind still p. 40. yet had said in his first book p. 46. as to formall teaching is required 1 guifts , 2 authority from the church , if he do not equivocate . i must confesse i am here at a stand , to find out the pretended contradiction ; especially laying aside the word only in the first columne which is his and not mine . by a preacher in the first place i intend a minister : guifts and consent or submission of the people , i affirme in both places to be sufficient , to constitute a man a minister in extraordinary cases ; that is , when imposition of hands by a presbytery may not be obtained in due order according to the appointment of jesus christ . that the consent and submission of the people , which include election , have nothing of authority in them i never said : the superadded act of the imposition of hands by a presbytery , when it may be regularly obtained , is also necessary . but that there is any contradiction in my words , ( although in truth they are not my words but an undue collection from them ) or in this authors inference from them , or any colour of equivocation , i professe i cannot discerne : in this place mr cawdrey {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . passe we to the third . he made the union of christ and believers to be mysticall pag. 21. he makes the union to be personall . pag. 94. 95. i wish our reverend author for his owne sake , had omitted this instance ; because i am enforced in mine owne necessary defence to let him know , that what he assignes to me in his second columne , is notoriously false , denied , and disproved , by me in the very place , and treatise wherein i have handled the doctrine of the indwelling of the spirit ; and whether he will heare or forbeare , i cannot but tell him , that this kind of dealing , is unworthy his calling and profession . his following deductions and inferences whereby he endeavours to give countenance to this false and calumnious charge , arise from ignorance of the doctrine that he seeks to blemish and oppose . though the same spirit dwell in christ and us , yet he may have him in fullnesse , we in measure ; fulnesse and measure relating to his communication of graces and gifts , which are arbitrary to him ; indwelling to his person : that the spirit animates the catholick church , and is the author of its spirituall life by a voluntary act of his power , as the soule gives life to the body , by a necessary act , by virtue of its union , for life is actus vivificant is in vivificatum per unionem utriusque , is the common doctrine of divines . but yet the soule being united to the body , as pars essentialis suppositi , and the spirit dwelling in the person as a free inhabitant , the union between christ and the person , is not of the same kind with the union of soule and body ; let our author consult zanchy on the second of the ephesians , and it will not repent him of his labour ; or if he please an author whom i find him often citing , namely , bishop hall about union with christ . and for my concernment in this charge i shall subjoyne the words from whence it must be taken ; pag. 133. of my book of perseverance . 1. the first signall issue and effect which is ascribed to this indwelling of the spirit , is union ; not a personall union with himselfe , which is impossible : he doth not assume our natures , and so prevent our personality , which would make us one person with him , but dwells in our persons , keeping his owne , and leaving us our personality infinitely distinct ; but it is a spirituall union ; the great union mentioned so often in the gospell , that is the sole fountaine of our blessednesse ; our union with the lord christ , which we have thereby . many thoughts of heart there have been about this union ; what it is , wherein it doth consist , the causes , manner , and effects of it ; the scripture expresses it to be very eminent , necre , durable , setting it out , for the most part , by similitudes , and metaphoricall illustrations , to lead poore weak creatures into some usefull needfull acquaintance with that mystery , whose depths in this life , they shall never fathome . that many in the daies wherein we live , have miscarried in their conceptions of it , is evident ; some to make out their imaginary union have destroyed the person of christ , and fancying a way of uniting man to god by him , have left him to be neither god nor man . others have destroyed the person of believers , affirming that in their union with christ , they loose their owne personality , that is , cease to be men : or at least , those , are these individuall men . i intend not now to handle it at large , but only ( and that i hope without offence ) to give in my thoughts concerning it , as farre as it receiveth light from , and relateth unto , what hath been before delivered , concerning the indwelling of the spirit , & that without the least contending about other waies of expression . so far there ; with much more to the purpose ; & in the very place of my book of schisme , referred to by this author , i affirme as the head of what i assert , that by the indwelling of the spirit , christ personall and his church do become one christ mysticall ; 1 cor. 12. 12. the very expression insisted on by him , in my former treatise ; and so you have an issue of this selfe-contradiction , concerning which , though reports be urged for some other things , mr cawdry might have said what lucian doth of his true history ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . let us then consider the 4th which is thus placed . 1. in extraordinary cases every one that undertakes to preach the gospell must have an immediate call from god pag. 28. 2. yet required no more of before but gif●s & consent of the people which are ordinary , and mediate calls p. 15. neither is here any need or use of an immediate call , pag. 53 3. to assure a man that he is extraordily called , he gives 3 wayes , 1 immediate revelation , 2 concurrence of scripture rule . 3 some outward acts of providence . the two last whereof are mediate calls , pag. 30. all that is here remarked and cast into 3 columnes , i know not well why , is taken out of that one treatise of the duty of pastours & people . and could i give my selfe the least assurance that any one would so farre concerne himselfe in this charge , as to consult the places from whence the words are pretended to be taken , to see whether there be any thing in them to answer the cry that is made , i should spare my selfe the labour of adding any one syllable towards their vindication ; and might most safely so doe , there being not the least colour of opposition betweene the things spoken of . in briefe extraordinary cases are not all of one sort and nature ; in some an extraordinary call may be required , in some not . extraordinary calls are not all of one kind and nature neither ; some may be immediate from god in the wayes there by me described ; some calls may be said to be extraordinary , because they doe in some things come short of , or goe beyond the ordinnary rule that ought to be observed in well constituted churches . againe , concurrence of scripture rules and acts of outward providence , may be such sometimes , as are suited to an ordinary , sometimes to an extraordinary call ; all which are at large unfolded in the places directed unto by our authour , and all laid in their owne order without the least shadow of contradiction . but it may sometimes be said of good men as the satyristsaid of evill women ; fortem animum praestant rebus quas turpiter audent . goe we to the next . 1. the church government from which i desire not to wander is the presbyteriall . 2. he now is ingaged in the independent way . 3. is setled in that way which he is ready to maintain and knows it will be found his rejoycing in the day of the lord jesus . hinc mihi sola malilabes : this is that inexpiable crime that i labour under ; an account of this whole businesse i have given in my review ; so that i shall not here trouble the reader with a repetition of what he is so litle concerned in . i shall only adde that whereas i suppose mr cawdrey did subscribe unto the 39 articles at his ordination ; were it of any concernement to the church of god , or the interest of truth , or were it a comely and a christian part to engage in such a worke , i could manifest contradictions , between what he then solemnly subscribed to , and what he hath since written and preached , manyfold above what he is able to draw out of this alteration of my judgment . be it here then declared , that whereas i sometimes apprehended the presbyterial synodicall government of churches , to have been fit to be received and walked in , ( then , when i knew not but that it answered those principles which , i had taken up , upon my best enquiry into the word of god ) i now professe my selfe to be satisfied , that i was then under a mistake ; and that i doe now own , and have for many yeares lived in the way and practice of that called congregationall . and for this alteration of judgment , of all men , i feare least a charge from them , or any of them , whom within a few yeares , we saw reading the service book in their surplices , &c : against which things , they doe now inveigh and declame . what influence the perusall of mr cotton's booke of the keyes , had on my thoughts in this businesse i have formerly declared . the answer to it ( i suppose that written by himselfe ) is now recommended to me by this authour , as that which would have perhaps prevented my , change ; but i must needs tell him , that as i have perused that book , many yeares agoe , without the effect intimated , so they must be things written with an other frame of spirit , evidence of truth , and manner of reasoning , then any i can find in that booke , that are likely for the future , to lay hold upon my reason and understanding . of my settlement in my present perswasion i have not only given him an account formerly , but with all christian courtesy , tendred my selfe in a readinesse personally to meet him , to give him the proofes and reasons of my my perswasions ; which he is pleased to decline & returne in way of answer , that i complemented him , after the mode of the times ; when no such thing was intended . and therefore my words of desiring liberty to waite upon him , are expressed , but the end and purpose for which it was desired , are concealed , in an &c. but he addes another instance . men ought not to cut thēselves from the communion of the church , to rent the body of christ and breake the sacred bond of charity , duty . 1. 48. 2 he sayes separation is no schisme , nor schisme any breach of charity , pag. 48. 49. there is not one word in either of those cautions , that i do not still own and allow , p. 44. sure not without equivocation . i have before owned this caution , as consistent with my present judgment , as expressed in my booke of schisme and as it is indeed ; wherein lyes the appearance of contradiction i am not able to discerne : doe not i in my booke of schisme declare and prove , that men ought not to cut themselves from the communion of the church ; that they ought not to rent the body of christ , that they ought not to break the sacred bonds of charity ? is there any word or tittle in the whole discourse deviating from these principles ? how and in what sense , separation is not schisme , that the nature of schisme doth not consist in a breach of charity , the treatise instanced will so farre declare , as withall to convince those that shall consider what is spoken , that our authour scarce keeps close either to truth or charity in his framing of this contradiction : the close of the scheme lies thus . i conceive they ought not at all to be allowed the benefit of private meeting , who willfully abstaike from the publick congregations . as for liberty to be allowed to those that meet in private , i confesse my-selfe to be otherwise minded . i remember that about 15 yeeres agoe , meeting occasionally with a learned friend , we fell into some debate , about the liberty that began then to be claimed by men , differing from what had been , and what was then likely to be established ; having at that time made no farther enquiry into the grounds and reasons of such liberty , then what had occurred to me in the writings of the remonstrants , all whose plea was still pointed towards the advantage of their owne interest , i delivered my judgment in opposition to the liberty pleaded for , which was then defended by my learned friend ; not many yeares after , discoursing the same difference with the same person , we found immediately that we had changed stations , i pleading for an indulgence of liberty , he for restraint ; whether that learned and worthy person be of the same mind still that then he was , or no , directly i know not : but this i know , that if he be not , considering the compasse of circumstances that must be taken in , to settle a right judgment in this case of liberty , and what alterations influencing the determination of this case we have had of late in this nation , he will not be ashamed to owne his change ; being a person who despises any reputation , but what arises from the embracing and pursuit of truth ; my change i here owne ; my judgment is not the same in this particular , as it was 14 yeeres ago j and in my change i have good company whome i need not to name . i shall only say my change was at least 12 yeares before the petition and advice ; wherein the parliament of the three nations , is come up to my judgment : and if mr cawdrey , hath any thing to object to my present judgment , let him at his next leisure consider the treatise that i wrote in the yeare 1648 , about toleration , where he will find the whole of it expressed : i suppose he will be doing , and that i may almost say of him , as polycteutus did of speusipus ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . and now christian reader i leave it to thy judgment whether our author had any just cause , of all his outcryes , of my inconstancy and selfe-contradiction ; and whether it had not been advisable for him to have passed by this seeming advantage of the designe he professed to mannage , rather than to have injured his owne conscience and reputation to so litle purpose . being sufficiently tired with the consideration of things of no relation to the cause at first proposed ( but , this saith he , this the independents , this the brownists and anabaptists &c. ) i shall now only enquire after that which is set up in opposition to any of the principles of my treatise of schisme before mentioned , or any of the propositions of the syllogismes wherein they are comprized , at the beginning of this discourse ; remarking in our way some such particular passages , as it will not be to the disadvantage of our reverend authour to be reminded of . of the nature of the thing enquired after , in the third chapter i find no mention at all ; only he tels me by the way , that the doctor's assertion that my booke about schisme , was one great schisme , was not non sense ; but usuall rhetoricke , wherein profligate sinners may be called by the name of sin ; and therefore a booke about schisme , may be called a schisme ; i wish our authour had found some other way of excusing his doctor , then by making it worse himselfe . in the fourth chapter he comes to the businesse it selfe ; and if in passing thorough that , with the rest that follow , i can fix on any thing rising up with any pretence of opposition to what i have laid down , it shall not be omitted ; for things by my selfe asserted , or acknowledged on all hands , or formerly ventilated to the utmost , i shall not againe trouble the reader with them : such are the positions about the generall nature of schisme , in things naturall and politicall , antecedently considered to the limitation and restriction of it to it's ecclesiasticall use ; the departure from churches voluntary or compelled &c : all which were stated in my first treatise , and are not directly opposed by our authour ; such also is that doughty controversie he is pleased to raise , and pursue about the seat and subject of schisme with it's restriction to the instituted worship of god , pag. 18. 19 : so placed by me , to distinguish the schisme whereof we speake , from that which is naturall , as also from such differences and breaches as may fall out amongst men , few or more , upon civill and rationall accounts ; all which i exclude from the enjoyment of any roome or place in our consideration of the true nature of schisme in it's limited ecclesiasticall sense . the like also may be affirmed concerning the ensuing strife of words about separation and schisme ; as though they were in my apprehension of them , inconsistent ; which is a fancy no better grounded than sundry other , which our reverend authour is pleased to make use of . his whole passage also receives no other security , than what is afforded to it by turning my universall proposition into a particular : what i say of all places in the scripture where the name or thing of schisme is used in an ecclesiasticall sense , as relating to a gospell church , he would restraint to that one place of the corinths where alone the word is used , in that sense : however if that one place be all ; my proposition is universall : take then my proposition in it's extent and latitude , and let him try once more if he please , what he hath to object to it , for as yet i find no instance produced to alleviate it's truth . he much also insists , that there may be a separation in a church where there is no separation from a church , and saith this was at first by me denyed : that it was denyed by me he cannot prove ; but that the contrary was proved by me is evident to all impartiall men , that have considered my treatise ; although i cannot allow that the separation in the church of corinth was carried to that height as is by him pretended ; namely as to seperate from the ordinances of the lord's supper ; their disorder and division about and in it's administration are reproved , not their separation from it : only on that supposition made , i confesse i was somewhat surprised with the delivery of his judgment in reference to many of his owne party , whom he condemnes of schisme for not administring the lord's supper to all the congregation , with whom they pray and preach . i suppose the greatest part of the most godly and able ministers of the persbyterian way in england , and scotland , are here cast into the same condition of schismaticks with the independents . and the truth is , i am not yet without hopes of seeing a faire coalescency in love , and church communion , between the reforming presbyterians and independents ; though for it they shall with some , suffer under the unjust imputatation of schisme . but it is incredible to think whithermen will suffer themselves to be carried studio partium ; and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; hence have we the strange notions of this authour about schisme ; decaies in grace are schisme , and errours in the faith are schisme ; and schisme and apostacy are things of the same kind , differing only in degree ; because the one leades to the other ; as one sinne of one kind doth often to another ; drunkennesse to whoredome , and envy and malice to lying ; that differences about civile matters , like that of paul and barnabas are schisme ; and this by one blaming me for a departure from the sense of antiquity , unto which these insinuations are so many monsters . let us then proceed . that acts 14. 4. acts 19. 9 , 18 : are pertinently used to discover & prove the nature of schisme in an evangelically ecclesiasticall sense or were ever cited by any of the antients to that purpose , i suppose our authour on second consideration will not affirme , i understand not the sense of this argument , the multitude of the city was divided , and part held with the jewes , and part with the apostle , therefore schisme in a gospell church state , is not only a division in a church ; or that it is a separation into new churches , or that it is something more than the breach of the union appointed by christ in an instituted church ; much lesse doth any thing of this nature appeare from paul's seperating the disciples whom he had converted to the faith from the unbelieving hardened jewes , an account whereof is given us , act. 19. 9. so then that in this chapter there is any thing produced de novo to prove that the precise scripture notion of schisme in it 's ecclesiasticall sense , extends it selfe any further than differences , divisions , separations in a church and that a particular church i find not ; and doe once more desire our authour that if he be otherwise minded , to spare such another trouble to our selves , and others , as that wherein we are now engaged , he would assigne me some time and place to attend him for the clearing of the truth between us . of schisme act. 20. 30. heb. 10. 28. jud. 19. there is no mention ; nor are those places interpreted of any such thing by any expositors new or old , that ever i yet saw ; nor can any sense be imposed on them enwrapping the nature of schisme with the least colour or pretence of reason . but now by our authour , schisme and apostacy , are made things of on kind , differing only in degrees , pag. 107. so confounding schisme and heresy , contrary to the constant sense of all antiquity . act. 20. 30. the apostle speakes , of men speaking perverse things , to draw away disciples ; that is teaching them false doctrines , contrary to the truths wherein they had been by him instructed ; in his revealing unto them the whole counsell of god : vers. 27. this by the antients is called heresie , and is contradistinguished unto schisme by them constantly : so austin an 100 times . to draw men from the church , by drawing them into pernitious errours , false doctrine , being the cause of their falling off , is not schisme , nor so called in scripture , nor by any of the antients , that ever yet i observed . that the designe of the apostle in the epistle to the hebrewes , is to preserve and keep them from apostasie unto judaisme , besides that it is attested by a cloud of witnesses , is to evident from the thing it selfe to be denyed . chapt. 10. 25 : he warnes them of a common entrance into that fearfull condition , which he describes , vers. 26 : their neglect of the christian assemblies , was the doore of their apostacy to judaisme . what is this to schisme ? would we charge a man with that crime whom we saw neglecting our assemblies , and likely to fall into judaisme ; are there not more forceable considerations to deale with him upon ; and doth not the apostle make use of them ? jude . 19 : hath been so farre spoken unto already , that it may not fairely be insisted on againe . parvas habet spes troja , sitables habet . in the entrance of the fifth chapter he takes advantage from my question , p. 147. who told him that raising causelesse differences in a church , and then separating from it , is not in my judgment schisme ; when the first part of the assertion , included in that interrogation , expresseth the formal nature of schisme , which is not destroyed , nor can any man be exonerated of it's guilt , by the subsequent crime of separation , whereby it is aggravated . 1 joh. 2. 19 : is againe mentioned to this purpose of schism , to as little purpose , so also is heb. 10. 25 : both places treat of apostates , who are charged and blamed under other termes than that of schisme . there is in such departures , as in every division whatever , of that which was in union , somewhat of the generall nature of schisme : but that particular crime and guilt of schisme in it's restrained ecclesiasticall sense , is not included in them . in his following discourse he renewes his former charges of denying their ordinances and ministry , of separating from them and the like ; as to the former part of this charge i have spoken in the entrance of this discourse ; for the latter , of separating from them , i say we have no more separated from them , then they have from us ; our right to the celebration of the ordinances of god's worship , according to the light we have received from him , is in this nation as good as theirs ; and our plea from the gospell we are ready to maintaine against them , according as we shall at any time be called thereunto . if any of our judgment deny them to be churches , i doubt not but he knowes who comes not behind in returnall of charges on our churches . doth the reverend authour thinke or imagine , that we have not in our owne judgment more reason to deny their churches and to charge them with schisme though we doe neither , then they have to charge us therewith , and to deny our churches ? can any thing be more fondly pretended than that he hath proved that we have separated from them ; upon which , pag. 105 , he requires the performance of my promise to retreat from the state wherein i stand , upon the establishment of such proofe . hath he proved the due administration of ordinances amongst them whom he pleads for ? hath he proved any church union betweene them as such , and us ? hath hath he proved as to have broken that union ? what will not selfe-fulnesse and prejudice put men upon ? how came they into the sole possession of all church state in england ; so that who ever is not of them , and with them must be charged to have separated from them ; mr cawdrey sayes indeed , that the episcopall men and they agree in substantialls , and differ only in circumstantials ; but that they and we differ in substantials ; but let him know they admit not of his compliances ; they say he is a schismatick , and that all his party are so also ; let him answer their charge solidly upon his owne principles ; and not thinke to owne that which he hath the weakest claime imaginable unto , and was never yet in possession of . we deny that since the gospell came into england , the presbyterian government as by them stated , was ever set up in england , but in the wils of a party of men ; so that here as yet , unlesse as it lyes in particular congregations , where our right is as good as theirs , none have separated from it , that i know of ; though many cannot consent unto it . the first ages we plead ours , the following were unquestionably episcopall . in the beginning of chapter the 6 : he attempts to disprove my assertion that the union of the church catholick visible which consists in the professing of the saving doctrine of the gospell , &c : is broken only by apostacy . to this end he confounds apostacy and schisme , affirming them only to differ in degrees ; which is a new notion unknowen to antiquity and contrary to all sound reason ; by the instances he produceth to this purpose he endeavours to prove that there are things which break this union , whereby this union is not broken ; whilst a man continues a member of that church which he is by virtue of the union thereof , and his interest therein , by no act doth he , or can he break that union . the partiall breach of that union which consists in the profession of the truth , is error and heresy and not schisme . our author abounds here in new notions which might easily be discovered to be as fond , as new , were it worth while to consider them ; of which in briefe , before . only i wonder why giving way to such thoughts as these , he should speak of men with contempt under the name of notionists , as he doth of dr du moulin ; but the truth is , the doctor hath provoked him , and were it not for some considerations that are obvious to me , i should almost wounder , why this author should sharpen his leasure and zeale against me , who scarse ever publickly touched the grounds and foundations of that cause which he hath so passionately espoused , and pase by him , who both in latine and english , hath laid his axe to the very root of it , upon principles sufficiently destructive to it , and so apprehended , by the best learned in our authors way , that ever these nations brought forth ; but as i said , reasons lye at hand , why it was more necessary to give me this opposition ; which yet hath not altered my resolution , of handling this controversy in another manner , when i meet with another manner of adversary . pag. 110. he fixes on the examination of a particular passage about the disciples of john mentioned acts 19. 2. of whom i affirmed that it is probable they were rather ignorant of the miraculous dispensations of the holy ghost , then of the person of the holy ghost ; alledging to the contrary that the words are more plaine and full then to be so cluded , and that for ought appeares , john did not baptize into the name of the holy ghost : i hope the author doth not so much dwell at home , as to suppose this to be a new notion of mine ; who almost of late in their criticall notes have not either ( at least ) considered it , or confirmed it ? neither is the question into whose name they were expressely baptized , but in what doctrine they were instructed : he knowes who denies that they were at all actually baptized , before they were baptized by paul . nor ought it to be granted without better proofe then any as yet hath been produced , that any of the saints under the old testament , were ignorant of the being of the holy ghost . neither do the words require the sense by him insisted on ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , do no more evince the person of the holy ghost to be included in them , then in those other joh. 7. 39. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; the latter in the proper sense he will not contend for ; nor can therefore , the expression being uniforme , reasonably for the latter . speaking of men openly and notoriously wicked , and denying them to be members of any church whatever : he bids me , answer his arguments to the contrary from the 1 cor. 5. 7. 2 thes. 13. 17. and i cannot but desire him that he would impose that task on them that have nothing else to do : for my owne part , i shall not intangle my selfe with things to so little purpose : having promised my reader to attend only to that which looks toward the merit of the cause , i must crave his pardon , that i have not been able to make good my resolution : meeting with so little or nothing at all which is to that purpose , i find my selfe entangled in the old diversions that we are now plentifully accustomed unto : but yet i shall endeavour to recompence this losse , by putting a speedy period to this whole trouble , despairing of being able to tender him any other satisfaction , whilst i dwell on this discourse . in the meane time to obviate all strife of words if it be possible for the future , i shall grant this reverend author that in the generall large notion of schisme which his opposition to that insisted on by me hath put him upon , i will not deny but that he , and i are both schismaticks , and any thing else shall be so , that he would have to be so , rather then to be engaged in this contest any farther . in this sense he affirmes that there was a schisme between paul and barnabas , and so one of them at least , was a schismatick ; as also he affirmes the same of 2 lesser men , though great in their generation chrysostome and epiphanius ; so error and heresy , if he please shall be schisme from the catholick church , and scandall of life shall be schisme : and his argument shall be true , that schisme is a breach of union in a church of christs institution , therefore in that which is so only by call , not to any end of joynt worship as such ; of any union ; that which consists in the profession of the saving truths of the gospell , and so there may be a schisme in the catholick church ; and so those presbyterians that reforme their congregations , and do not administer the sacraments to all promiscuously , shall be guilty of schime ; and indeed , as to me , what else he pleaseth , for my inquiry concernes only the precise limited nature of schisme , in its evangelically ecclesiasticall sense . neither shall i at present , ( alloting very few houres to the dispatch of this businesse , which yet i judge more then it deserves ) consider the scattered ensuing passages about ordination , church government , number of elders , and the like , which all men know , not at all to belong unto the maine controversy which was by me undertaken ; and that they were against all lawes of disputation , plucked violently into this contest , by our reverend author . one thing i cannot passe by , and it will upon the matter put a close to what i shall at present offer to this treatise ; having said that christ hath given no direction for the performance of any duty of worship of soveraigne institution , but only in them and by them ( meaning particular churches ) he answers that , if i would imply that a minister in or of a particular church , may performe those ordinances without those congregations , he contradicts himselfe for saying a particular church is the seate of all ordinances , but why so , i pray ? may not a particular church be the seat of all ordinances subjectively , and yet others be the object of them , or of some of them ? but saith he , if he meane those ordinances of worship are to be performed only by a minister of a particular congregation , what shall become of the people ? i suppose they shall be instructed and built up according to the mind of christ , and what would people desire more . but whereas he had before said , that i denyed a minister to be a minister to more then his own church : and i had asked him who told him so ; adding that explication of my judgment , that for so much as men are appointed the objects of the dispensation of the word , i grant a minister in the dispensation of it to act ministerially , towards not only the members of the catholick church , but the visible members of the world also in contradistinction thereunto ; he now tells me a story of passages between the learned dr wallis and my selfe about his question in the vespers 1654. namely that as to that question an potestas ministri evangelici ad unius tantum ecclesiae particularis membra extendatur ? i said that , dr wallis had brought me a challenge , and that if i did dispute on that question , i must dispute ex animo ; although i grant that a minister as a minister may preach the word , to more then those of his owne congregation , yet knowing the sense wherein the learned dr vvallis maintained that question , it is not impossible , but i might say , if i did dispute i must do it ex animo ; for his bringing me a challenge , i do not know that either he did so , or that i put that interpretation on what he did ; but i shall crave leave to say , that if the learned dr vvallis do find any ground , or occasion to bring a challenge unto me , to debate any point of difference between us , i shall not wave answering his desire , although he should bring mr cawdry for his second ; for the present i shall only say , that as it is no commendation to the moderation or ingenuity of any one whatever , thus to publish to the world private hearesaies , and what he hath been told of private conferences ; so if i would insist on the same course , to make publication of what i have been told hath been the private discourse of some men , it is not unlikely that i should occasion their shame and trouble : yet in this course of proceeding a progres is made in the ensuing words ; and mr stubbes ( who is now called my amanuensis , who some five yeares ago , transcribed about a sheete of paper for me , and not one line , before or since ; ) is said to be employed or at least encouraged by me to write against the learned dr wallis his thesis being published ; this is as true as much of that that went before , and as somewhat of that , that followes after ; and whereas it is added that i said what he had written on that subject , was a scurrilous rididulous piece , it is of the same nature with the rest of the like reports . i knew that mr stubbes was writing on that subject ; but not untill he had proceeded farre in it ; i neither imployed him , nor encouraged him in it , any otherwise then the consideration of his papers , after he had written them , may be so interpreted ; and the reason why i was not willing he should proceed , next to my desire of continuance of peace in this place , was his using such expressions of me , and somethings of mine , in sundry places of his discourse , as i could not modestly allow to be divulged ; the following words to the same purpose with them before mentioned , i remember not ; nor did ever think to be engaged in the consideration of such transgressions of the common rules of humane society as those now passed through ; reports , heresayes , talkes , private discourse between friends , allegations countenanced by none of these , nor any thing else , are the weapons wherewith i am assaulted . i have heard , i am told , if reports be true , t was vox populi at oxford , is it not so , i presume he will not deny it , are the ornaments of this discourse : strange ! that men of experience and gravity should be carried by the power of these temptations not only to the forgetfulnesse of the royall law of christ , and all gospell rule of deportment towards his professed disciples : but also be ingaged into wayes and practises , contrary to the dictates of the law of nature , and such as sundry heathens would have abhorred . for my owne part , had not god by his providence placed me in that station , wherein others also that feare him are concern'd in me , i should not once turne aside to looke upon such heapes as that which i have now passed over : my judgment in most heads and articles of christian religion is long since published to the world , and i continue through the grace and patience of god preaching in publick answerably to the principles i doe professe ; and if any man shall oppose what i have delivered , or shall so deliver , in print or in the pulpit , or in divinity lectures , as my judgment , i shall consider his opposition , and doe therein , as god shall guide : with evill surmises , charges upon hearesayes , and reports , attended with perpetuall excursions from the argument in hand , i shall no more contend . some few observations on scattered passages , will now speedily issue this discourse . pag. 112. to that assertion of mine , that if rome be no particular church , it is no church at all , for the catholicke church it is not , he replyes that though it be not such a particular congregation as i intend , yet it may be a particular patriarchall church : but , 1 : then it seemes it is a particular church , which grants my inference . 2. it was a particular church of christ's institution , that i inquired after ; doth our authour think that christ hath appointed any patriarchall church ? a patriarchall church , as such , is such from it's relation to a patriarch : and he can scarce be thought to judge patriarches to be of divine institution , who hath cast off and abjured episcopacy . the donatists are mentioned againe , p. 113. and i am againe charged with an attempt to vindicate them from schisme ; my thoughts of them i have before declared to the full ; & have no reason to retract any thing from what was then spoken , or to adde any thing thereunto ; if it may satisfie our authour , i here grant they were schismatickes , with what aggravations he pleaseth ; & wherein their schisme consisted , i have also declared : but he sayes , i undertake to exempt some others from schisme ( i know whom ) that suffer with them in former and after ages , under the same imputation ; i doe so indeed , and i suppose our authour may ghesse at whom i intend : himselfe amongst others ; i hope he is not so taken up in his thoughts , with charging schisme on others , as to forget , that many , the greatest part and number of the true churchs of christ doe condemne him for a schismatick ; a donatisticall schismatick : i suppose he acknowledges the church of rome to be a true church ; the lutheran i am perswaded he will not deny , nor perhaps the grecian , to be so : the episcopall church of england , he contends for ; and yet all these with one voice cry out upon him for a schismaticke : and as to the plea of the last , how he can satisfie his conscience , as to the rejection of his lawfull superiors , upon his owne principles , without pretending any such crime against them , as the donatists did against caecilianus , i professe i do not understand : new mention is made of episcopall ordination , p. 120 , and they are said to have had their successive ordination from rome who ordained therein ; so indeed some say , and some otherwise ; whether they had or no , is nothing to me , i lay no weight upon it ; they held i am sure , that place in england , that without their approbation no man could publickly , preach the gospell ; to say they were presbyters , and ordained as presbyters , i know not what satisfaction can arise unto conscience thereby . party and argument , may be countenanced by it ; they professe they ordained as bishops , that for their lives and soules they durst not ordaine but as such ; so they told those whom they ordained , and affirme they have open injury done them , by any ones deniall of it : as it was , the best is to be made of it ; this shift is not handsome ; nor is it ingenious , for any one , that hath looked into antiquity , to charge me with departing from their sense in the notion of schisme , declared about the 3d & 4th ages , & at the same time to maintaine an equality between bishops and presbyters ; or to say that bishops ordained as presbyters , not as bishops : nor doe i understand the excellency of that order which we see in some churches , where they have two sorts of elders ; the one made so , by ordination without election , and the other by election without ordination ; those who are ordained , casting off all power and authority of them that ordained them ; and those who are elected , immediately rejecting the greatest part of those that chose them . nor did i , as is pretend , plead for their presbyterian way in the yeare 46 ; all the ministers ( almost ) in the county of essex , know the contrary ; one especially , who being a man of great ability , and moderation of spirit , and for his knowledge in those things , not behind any man , i know , in england of his way , with whome in that yeare , and the next following , i had sundry conferences at publicke meetings of ministers , as to the severall wayes of reformation , then under proposall . but the frivolousnesse of these imputations , hath been spoken of before , as also the falsnesse of the calumny , which our authour is pleased to repeat againe , about my turning from wayes in religion . my description of a particular church he once more blames as applicable to the catholicke church invisible , and to the visible catholick church ( i suppose he meanes as such ) when a participation in the same ordinances numerically , is assigned as its difference ; he askes , whether it becomes my ingenuity , to interpret the capability of a churches reduction to it's primitive constitution , by its owne fitnesse and capacity to be so reduced , rather then by its externall hinderances or furtherances ; but with what ingenuity or modesty , that question is asked , i professe i understand not ; and pag. 134 , he hath this passage : ( only i take notice of his introduction , to his answer , with thankes for the civility of the inquiry in the manner of its expresion ; my words were these : whether our reverend authour doe not in his conscience thinke there was no true church in england 'till , &c , which puts me into suspition , that the reverend doctour was offended , that i did not alwaies ( for oft i doe ) give him that title , of the reverend authour , or the doctor , which made him cry out he was never so dealt withall by any party as by me ; though upon review , i doe not find , that i gave him any uncivill language , unbeseeming me to give or him to receive ; and i heare that somebody hath dealt more uncivilly with him in that respect , which he took very ill . let this reverend authour , make what use of it he please , i cannot but againe tell him , that these things become neither him , nor any man professing the religion of jesus christ , or that hath any respect to truth or sobriety ; can any man thinke , that in his conscience , he gives any credit to the insinuation which here he makes , that i should thanke him for calling me reverend authour , or reverend doctor , or be troubled for his not useing those expressions ? can the mind of an honest man be thought to be conversant with such meane and low thoughts ? for the title of reverend , i doe give him notice that i have very little valued it , ever since i have considered the saying of luther ; nunquam periclitatur religio nisi inter reverendissimos . so that he may as to me forbeare it for the future , and call me , as the quakers doe , and it shall suffice . and for that of doctor ; it was conferred on me by the university in my absence , and against my consent , as they have expressed it under their publicke seale : nor doth any thing but gratitude , and respect unto them , make me once own it ; and freed from that obligation , i should never use it more , nor did i use it , untill some were offended with me , & blamed me for my neglect of them . and for that other , whom he mentions , who before this , gave so farre place to indignation , as to insinuate some such thing , i doubt not but by this time he hath beene convinced of his mistake therein , being a person of another manner of ability and worth , then some others , with whom i have to doe ; and the truth is , my manner of dealing with him in my last reply , which i have since my selfe not so well approved of , requires the passing by such returnes . but you will say then why doe i preface this discourse , with that expression ; with thankes for the civility of the enquiry in the manner of it's expression ? i say ! this will discover the iniquity of this authour's procedure , in this particular : his enquiry was , whether i did not in my conscience think that there were no true churches in england , untill the brownists our fathers , the anabaptists our elder brothers , and our selves arose , and gathered new churches ; without once taking notice , or mentioning his titles that he sayes he gave me , i used the words , in a sense obvious to every man's first consideration , as a reproofe of the expressions mentioned ; that which was the true cause of my words our authour hides in an &c : that which was not by me once taken notice of , is by him expressed ; to serve an end of drawing forth an evill surmize and suspition , that hath not the least colour to give it countenance ; passing by all indifferent readers , i referre the honesty of this dealing with me , to the judgment of his owne conscience ; setting downe , what i neither expressed , nor tooke notice of , nor had any singular occasion in that place so to doe , the words being often used by him , hiding , and concealing what i did take notice of , and expresse , and which to every man's view was the occasion of that passage , that conclusion or unworthy insinuation is made , which a good man ought to have abhorred . sundry other particulars there are , partly false , and calumniating , partly impertinent , partly consisting in mistakes , that i thought at the first view , to have made mention of ; but on severall accounts , i am rather willing here to put an end to the readers trouble , and my owne . the preface . the servants of the lord ( saith paul ) must not strive , but be gentile towards all men , 2 tim. 2. 24. how much more towards their brethren ? but what if a brother , should become an adversary ( whether adversarius litis , or personae , ) and speak hard words , yea and write a booke against his fellow servants ? job telleth us , though he could , yet he would not speak as they doe , job . 16. 4 , 5. and for the book against him , he would take it and bind it upon his shoulder , and yet i doe not think he meant to cast it behind his backe , but that he would bearé it as a light loade , and in case of his innocency , he would we are it as his crowne : and for that end , would declare unto him the number of his steps , job . 31. 35 , 36 , 37 ? yea though such a booke might seeme to impartiall and judicious mindes written with a spirit of bitternesse , and contempt , and in a style suitable , yet the servants of the lord have not so learned christ , nor the truth ( as it is in jesus ) as to returne evill for evill , or reviling for reviling . hard words are not given , but as the lord commandeth , if not in his ordinances , yet in his providence : and either they are deserved , & then they are an excellent balme which will not break the head : or undeserved , and then the lord will requite good to him that suffereth evill . it is no new thing for god's owne servants to be taken with paroxismes ( as paul and barnabas were , act. 15. ) that is , with pangs of passion , and that is the worst i conceive of the tartest passages of mr cawdryes reply . for i see by his dealing with mr hooker , that he can write with more meeknesse , and moderation , when the lord helpeth him : let me therefore briefly give account of such passages of mine , as have seemed most offensive to him : and that in such termes , as may not unbeseeme either my selfe , or the cause . chap. 1. the first offence he taketh , is against my inconstancy , and ( that which is the fruit of it ) my manifest and manifold contradictions to my selfe to the number of about 21 : inconstancy in the generall he intimateth in the text of james in his frontispiece , james 1. 8. a double minded man is unstable in all his wayes . to which i will rejoyne no other answer than a text of like authority , and alleadged ( i hope ) with more pertinency , math. 11. 7. what went you out into the wildernesse to see ? a reede shaken with the winde ? the contradictions are set forth in great letters in the title page and afterwards particularly in an ample scheme in 3 columnes in the end of his reply , let us consider of them in order . the 1rst contradiction . 1. the keyes were given to peter at an apostle as an elder , as a believer . so the sense is most full . the keyes , pag. 4. 1. the power of the keyes is given to peter , not at an apostle nor as elder , but as a profest believer the way , p. 27. 1 peter received not the keyes , meerely as a believer , but as a believer publickly professing his faith , &c. the way cleared part. 2 p. 39. to like purpose m. hooker surv. part. 1. p. 203 the reconciliation of this seeming contradiction were obvious and easy ; take the words as they stand in the scheme ; for so it might be said , brethren , are sometimes put for private members of the church , and contradistinguished from such as beare office in the church . as when it is said in the synodicall letter ( act. 15. 23. ) the apostles , elders , and brethren . sometimes brethren are put more generally , as comprehending all the members of the church , both officers and private members as gal. 6. 1 : and frequently else where : in the former sence , the passage in the keyes speaketh , when it saith , the sense of the words will be most full , if peter be conceived as receiving the keyes in the name both of the officers , and private members , to wit , in the name of the apostles , elders , and brethren . in the latter sense , the words of the scheme might be taken to runne , that the power of the keyes was given to peter , not as an apostle ( for then it had been given only to the apostles : ) nor as an elder ( for then it had been only to elders ) but as a profest believer . and under the generall name of profest believers , not only private brethren , but apostles , and elders may be comprehended . for all the apostles & all the elders are profest believers : and so all of them may claime their interest in the power of the keyes , according to the severall measure and latitude of power assigned to them in the scriptures . but i will not so answer ; because in the way the context speaketh of such brethren , as have not power to exercise the pastoral ministry of the word & sacraments . but notwithstanding that the assoylment of the contradiction is no lesse faire and cleare . for mr cawdrey well knoweth ( and so doth any logician : ) that to a contradiction , it is a necessary requisite ( amongst others : ) that both speake ad idem . but here it is otherwise . in the keyes i spake of such a power of the keyes , as peter received formally , standing in the roome both of an apostle and of an elder , and of a profest believer : that is , such a power as peter having received might exercise in his own person , and each one of them respectively . in the way , i spake of such a power , as the brethren of the church have received not formally ( farther than concerneth their own liberty ) but virtually only . for though the brethren have not a formall power to excercise the pastorall ministry of the word and sacraments , yet they have a virtuall power to exercise them by choosing and calling forth such officers as have a formall power to exercise the same . and there is nothing in the keyes , or in the way , or in the defence , that contradicteth this . so that both these two passages ( in the keyes , and in the way ) are so farre from making a contradiction ( and that so flat as never any more ) as that they doe not indeed amount to an opposition . in an opposition both parts cannot be true : here both are true . peter considered as standing in the roome of an apostle , elder , and profest believer , did receive formally all the power of the keyes : the body of the brethren have received , though the power of their liberty formally ; yet all other parts of church power which belongeth to officers , they have received only virtually and this very distinction is expressed in terminis , in the very same page ( 27. of the way ) whence this {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is fetched . as for his exageration of the contradiction , that is was as flat , as never any more , though he to make this comparative speech seem lesse hyperbolicall , doe tell us in a parenthesis , that contradictions doe not recipere magis & minùs ( and therefore if they make any contradiction at all it must needs be as flat , as ever any was : ) he may be pleased to consider , that such a parenthesis , though it make his speech , lesse hyperbolicall , yet it maketh it the more irrationall ; if i should say nero was as wicked a man as ever any was , and yet presuppose all men were equally wicked ( wickednesse in men did not recipere magis & minùs ) there were very little reason in such exaggeration . in my former answer to this contradiction ( intituled , the way of the congregationall churches cleared ) i said the words whereon the assertour grounded this contradiction , were his own not mine . for he reporteth me to say ( in the keyes pag. 4. ) that the keyes were delivered to peter as an apostle , as an elder , as a believer . but in his preface ( sect. 5. num. 1. ) he confesseth ; that the words are not mine in terminis : but in sense , ( he saith ) they be . for i said take peter not as an apostle only , but as an elder also , and a believer too , all may well stand together . whereupon he inferreth ; doth not this discourse clearly hold forth this proposition , as the sense of that text , the keyes were delivered to peter as an apostle , as an elder , as a believer too ? all may well stand together . ans. that discourse of mine is so farre from clearly holding forth that proposition , that it clearly holdeth forth the contrary in expresse termes : my expresse termes be , take peter considered not only as an apostle &c. now if not only as an apostle , than not as an apostle , for if they were delivered to him as an apostle , then to all the apostles , and only to the apostles : which my words in terminis doe expresly deny . but saith he , this apology maketh it worse , for if it be so that whatsoever is attributed to any as such , is given to all such universally , reciprocally , and only to such : now assume . but the keyes were given to peter as an apostle , therefore they were given only to the apostles , and not to the believers as such . but here the assumption is palpably false , not at all delivered by me , but dragged out of my words against the letter and against the sence of them . i say the keyes were not given to peter as an apostle only : why then not to him as an apostle , but as he is joyntly considered with other officers and brethren . when therefore he appealeth to the judgment of any logician , whether to say peter received the keyes not as an apostle only , but an elder also , and a believer , be not as much as to say , peter had the power of the keyes given him , as an apostle , as an elder , and as a believer : verily if that were the judgment of all logicians i should conclude , either that logick had forsaken the world , or at least that my selfe were forsaken of logick . when christ promised the keyes to peter , though he spake indefinitely , keyes , yet he meaneth universally all the keyes of the kingdome of heaven . and to put all the keyes into peter's hand as an apostle , though it would communicate them indeed to all the apostles , yet since the death of all the apostles , all the churches and all the elders , have been left destitute of the power of the keyes . and if so , then why doe we blame the seekers who have cast off all churches , and all ordinances , 'till new apostles come ? againe the replyer argueth thus on the contrary ( from that passage in the way pag. 27 : ) if the keyes were given to peter , not as an apostle , nor as an elder , but as a believer , then to all believers , and only to believers . but ( saith the way ) the keyes were given to peter not as an apostle , nor as an elder , but as a believer , therefore they were given to all believers ( women and all ) and only to believers . ans. it hath been shewed above , that in that place in the way , i speak expresly of profest believers , to have received all the power of the keyes not formally , but virtually . so that if there be some power of the keyes which they cannot exercise formally as brethren , yet they may exercise the same virtually , by choosing and calling forth such , as may formally exercise the same for them : which presupposed i answer to the major , if the power of the keyes ( which was to continue in the church ) were given to peter , not as an apostle , nor as an elder , but as a believer , then it was given to all believers , and only to believers , & to such whom believers shall orderly choose , and call forth to execute the same . as to instance in a like example , if heate be given to fire , as such , then to all fire , and only to fire , & to such other things , as fire communicateth his virtue to . when therefore the publishers of the keyes say , the power of the keyes may be disposed in a due allotment into divers hands . the replyer had no cause to say , herein they neither agree with me , nor with them . they say it is put into diverse hands , and he saith it is given only to believers : and is not this a contradiction ? ans : no verily ; for when i say it is given to believers as such , and expresse virtually , as well as formally , the meaning is cleare , it is given to all believers , and only to believers , and by them communicated to such , as they doe orderly choose and call forth , to the exercise of the same . and the publishers of the keyes i doubt not , will say as much . when i said ( in the way ) that the brethren might not administer sacraments in defect of all officers , and therefore made it appeare that one sort of men ( the brethren ) had not received all the power of the keyes formally . the replyer returneth , truly this is to discover the contradiction the more . for if the power of the keyes be delivered to believers as such , then the power of administring the sacraments is given to them : for that is a part of the power of the keyes . ans. it is wearysome to repeat so often the same answer ; yet let me say it once more , and leave it ; he that saith , believers receive all the power of the keyes as profest believers , he saith all of them have received the power , and they only , and such as receive their power from them . and this is the force of quateuus tale ; that whosoever receive any thing as such , all such doe receive it , & none but such as derive it from them . but saith the replyer , in the way , he giveth the greater part of church power to the body of the church ( pag. 45. ) to wit , to ordaine , and in some cases ) to excommunicate all their church officers : which are the highest acts of rule ( as else where he speaketh : ) therefore he may not deny them the lesser , which is to administer the sacraments . ans. the answer is ready at hand , and was ready at his hand ( in part 2 : of the congregationall way cleared pag. 29. ) where i distinguish potestas into officiariam and honorariam . excommunication by the brethren is the highest act of honoraria potestas : but not of officiaria potestas . to preach the word with authority , and to administer the seales of it , are acts of the highest office-power in the church . popish divines would take it very ill , if any act of church power were said to be higher than conficere corpus domini . but excommunication largly taken is an act of a power proper to a community . any community hath power ex natura rei , to receive into their communion , & to cast not of their communion . every sound body hath a power to cast out his own superfluous humours , and to cut off his own putrid members : as for ordination , though we looke at it ( with dr ames ) as adjunctum consummans of the peoples election , and vocation of their officers ( and therefore not utterly excentrical from the peoples power ; ) yet our churches doe not practise it ordinarily , where they have elders of their own , or can procure other elders to joyne with them . as for that last words in the scheme of the first contradiction , i know not whether the replyer put any weight , or stresse , in that , in the first columne , the keyes are said to be given ( to wit , partly ) to believers , and in the same columne againe to the fraternity , with the presbytery , in the second columne to profest believers , in the third to believers publickly professing their faith : and ( in mr hookers judgment ) not to believers as believers , but as believers covenanting . but if it be requisite to say any thing to this , i would say . 1. that the fraternity , and profest believers , and believers publickly professing their faith , are all one . and the common name of believers is often put for all the rest , they that were added to the church ( acts 2. 47 : and 41 : ) are called by the common name of believers acts 2. 44. and 4. 32. when mr hooker saith the power is not given to believers as believers , but as believers covenanting , he meaneth the same that i do , by profest believers . as for women ( whom the replyer cast in our way before ) though they be believers and so partake in the same common salvation , as also in the word and seales : yet because of the frailty of their sex , they are expresly exempted by the apostle from any act of power in the church . 1 cor. 14. 34 , 35. and 1 tim: 2. 11 , 12. yet that impeacheth not the generality of the proposition ; that all the fraternity of believers have part in the power of the keyes : that all men once dye is the generall proposition of the apostle heb : 9. 27. which is not impeached by the translation of enoch and elias . having thus cleared the first answer to this contradiction , let us weigh next what he saith to the second answer , which saith he is given to help out the former , for i had said . 2. if there had been some difference between the keyes and the way , in some expressions : yet it lay rather in logicall termes , then in the doctrine of divinity , or church practise , and such is this , about the first subject of the power of the keyes . what saith the replyer to this ? he returneth a double exception . 1. saith he , had it been only a lesser difference about a logicall notion ( as he minceth it ) the assertor had not observed it . but a difference ( of the highest magnitude ) to contradiction , in delivering a new way is very remarkable . how shall we be brought to agree with them that contradict not only one another , but one man himselfe . answer 1. it was not any weaknesse of the first answer , that needed a second to help it out , but variety of fit matter for a just defence produced it : it needed no help , but to cleare it selfe from groundlesse exceptions . answer 2. the seeming difference between the way and the keyes ( if any be in this point ) it lyeth rather in logicall expressions , then in the doctrine of divinity , or church practise . for what ever the different judgments of men of our way may be , touching the first subject of the power of the keyes ( some placing it in the body of the church , others dividing it between officers and brethren : ) yet in the doctrine of divinity we all agree with one accord , that the church ( even the body of church-members ) have power to choose their officers , to admit members , and to censure offenders : and that the officers only have power to preach the word with office and authority , and to administer the sacraments . and according to this unity of judgment is the uniforme practise of our churches . and therefore let mincing be left to curious cookes to prepare their shread meat for queazy stomackes : or let it be left to such as would make the best of a bad cause : we neither distrust our cause to be of god , nor do feare any thing more then that it should be hid , and clouded with prejudices and calumnies from such as know it not , and yet seek the truth in sincerity . and therefore let the replyer be pleased to consider , whether the difference be indeed any more then in a logicall notion : and whether they be the words not only of an assertour , but of an avenger , to style it a difference of the highest magnitude ? surely if there were not some more then common zeale and indignation in the cause , a contradiction in logicall termes , would not be counted a difference of the highest magnitude in divinity : nor vvould such difference in vvords so easy to be reconciled , be blovven up to so high an opposition , as a contradiction . 2. his second exception is , that howsoever the first subject is indeed a logicall terme , yet the matter discoursed is doctrinall divinity : and whatsoever the practise be , it is a contradiction in divinity as well as in logick . answer : but i hope it hath appeared , there hath been found no contradiction at all , neither in logick nor in divinity , though there have wanted no industry to search it , nor animosity to charge it . and therefore your question is easily answered , how shall we be brought to agree with them , that contradict not only one another , but one man himselfe ? for here is yet no contradiction found of one man to himselfe , nor any appearance of contradiction neither in one man nor other , unlesse it be only in logicall termes , and scarce therein . but if the replyer deferre his agreeing with divines or churches , in any way of religion , till he meet with such as neither contradict themselves , nor one another , he must neither be protestant nor puritan ( as they have been called ) nor of the presbyterian , nor congregationall way . what if it be said ( in the way , pag : 45. ) the brethren of the church might proceed ( to wit , upon just , and weighty grounds ) against all their officers as well as one ? yet in such cases our churches are never wont to proceed , but in the presence , and with the consent and approbation of other churches ? why then saith he their doctrine and practise agree not , which is the greater blemish . how hard is it for a heart leavened with prejudice to take good things in good part ? a free man , sui juris ( having his fathers consent ) might marry a wife ( if he would ) without his brethrens consent : and for adultery , he might put her away also without their consent , and yet he will not do either , without their consent , and approbaion . is this mans judgment contrary to his practise , and is it the greater blemish ? what say we to paul ? he received his gospell , neither of man , nor by man . and he might have preached it every where boldly and confidently , and have called an anathema upon all such as had gainesayed him , whether angells or apostles gal. 1. 8 , 9. yet he chose rather to go up to jerusalem to conferre with the apostles about his whole gospell gal. 2. 1 , 2. and that lest he had runne in vaine , or should runne in vaine . what then ? shall we say then pauls doctrine and practise agree not , which is the greater blemish ? god forbid . christian prudence and religious care to prevent offence , will condescend to cleare righteous proceedings to all judicious and equall mindes . and yet neither crosse his owne judgment of his owne right , nor blemish ( but rather honour ) himselfe by approving it to others . 3. i gave a third answer to the former charge of contradictions , which he saith , i added to succour both the former . but the truth is , they need no succour to defend themselves against such exceptions : but it is an honour to truth , to have many witnesses to attend upon it . i said it for a third answer , that it were no just matter of calumny , if in some latter tractate , i should retract or expresse more commodiously , what i wrote in a former lesse safely : as augustine &c. whereto he replyeth , truly sr , it had been no just calumny so to do , but matter of honour and reputation rather . but to write contradictions , and to take no notice of them , till observed by others : and then to be so farre from retracting , as to stand upon justification of them , is nothing like augustines practise , and so falleth short of his reputation . answer : though augustine retracted , what he was convinced of , to be erroneous , or unsafe , yet he did not retract what every one objected against him , ( not only what faustus , or petilius or julian objected , but not so much as what jerome himselfe objected , ) but justly stood upon his owne defence . had vindex his objections been convictions , reason , and ( i hope ) conscience , would not have suffered me to justify knowne errours . he doth himselfe beare me witnesse , that he hath sometimes heard , i have often changed my opinions . and ( i thank god ) i take it for no shame to change for the better . but to confesse i am convinced , when i am not , and to retract what a stranger ( though a brother ) conceiveth erroneous , to wit , in his judgment , but not in mine own , it were as much as to live by another man's faith , and not mine own : and with all to cast my selfe under that reproach , which the title of his booke implicitly casteth upon me . a wavering minded man is unstable in all his wayes . in the conclusiō of his preface he saith , there are in that prefatory epistle to the way , and in that other to the keyes , other differences observed , betweene the author and the prefacers , but the author is not pleased to take notice of them . it is too hard perhaps to reconcile others to himselfe . it is well if he can reconcile himselfe to himselfe . ans. this is the word not of an assertour but of an avenger , ( whose heart is hot , deut. 19. 6. ) but though mr cawdry know not so much , yet i have taken notice of those differences , and have advertised the prefacers of the same , whom it concerned . my letters to them are not present at hand with me : if they were i should not think it meet to publish them . in the preface to the keyes , the prefacers note a difference between me and them about the prophecying of private brethren , concerning which i sent them word , i discerned no dissent at all between them and me in that point , though they had added a case or two of liberty , more than there they did expresse . whether it be too hard for me or no to reconcile others with my selfe it is enough , that i keep the unity of the spirit with them in the bond of peace : and that i have learned placidè ferre contra sentientes . but howsoever i hope ( by the help of christ ) i shall soone reconcile my selfe to my selfe , unlesse the replyer can prevaile with me so farre , as to make me not only to fall out with my selfe , but to fall off from the truth too , or else convince me that i have so fallen , and yet even so i hope the lord will help me rather to reconcile my selfe to the truth , than my selfe to my selfe . chap. 2. touching the second pretended contradiction , with the 3 , 4 , 5. the second contradiction which the replyer chargeth is delineated in the scheme thus . 2. the keyes are given to the church of believers , the way pag. 1. that is a combination , of faithfull . men , as mr. hooker . 2. the key of knowledg belongeth to all the faithfull , whether joyned to any particular church or no . the keyes pag. 11. 2 the key of knowledge is given not only to the church , but to some before they enter into the church , keyes pag. 2. ans. this terme the key of knowledge is taken from our saviour's words , in luk. 11. 52. where he reproveth the lawyers , who had taken away the key of knowledge , and neither entred in themselves , nor suffered others to enter . the words argue , that the entring in was not into the visible church : for into that the lawyers had entred , and were willing to admit others . he speaketh therefore of entring into the state of grace , and so into the kingdome of grace and glory . the solution then is plaine and easy , the key of knowledge ( or faith ) belongeth to all the faithfull , whether joyned to any particular church or no . for by it they enter into the kingdome of grace and glory . but if we speak of the keyes of a particular visible church , they are all given to the church or congregation of believers . touching the third contradiction . the third contradiction is decyphered thus . 3. the key of order is common to all the members of the church : keyes pag. 8. then say we , to women and children . 3 it is not every place , or order in the church , that giveth power to receive ordinances , much lesse to dispense them , as children and women , way cleared part . 2. pag. 19. ans. 1. it hath been answered above , that such generall propositions hold true , notwithstanding some knowne particular exceptions . it is appointed to all men once to dye : which is an undoubted truth , though enoch and elias never dyed . ans. 2. the children of church-members are in order to baptisme , but excluded from the lord's table . 1 cor. 11. 28. women have some parts of the key of order , whereby they have power to walke orderly themselves , and in a private way to help others to walk orderly also , act. 18. 26. tit. 2. 3 , 4 , 5. only they have not power to admit members , choose officers , censure offenders . but if they have any part of the power of the keyes , the proposition is true , yea and it were true also , though they had been kept from all interest in the exercise of the keyes . touching the fourth contradiction . the fourth contradiction is thus laid out . 4. ordination is a work of rule . the way , pag. 49. ordination and jurisdiction ( both acts of rule ) pertaine indifferently to all the presbyters . ibid. pag. 49. 4. as for election , & ordination of officers these things the brethren may doe ( if need be ) without officers the way , pag. 45. 101. 4. ordination is not an act of supreme jurisdiction , but of order rather , hooker's survey part . 2. 75. ans. ordination , they that make the least of it make it an act of prayer , & such prayer , by which the lesse is blessed of the greater ; as it is in all prayer which is joyned with imposition of hands ; which argueth , it is an act of majority of power : and majority of power may without a soloecisme be called , rule : though not office-rule , yet honourable preheminence . i no where call it an act of supreme jurisdiction which is that mr hooker denies ; and seemeth to deny it , not positively neither , but comparatively rather . ordination ( saith he ) is not an act of supreme jurisdiction , but of order rather , then there is no contradiction here . nor will it be found in the other clause , for though ordination and jurisdiction be said ( in the way pag , 49. ) to pertaine indifferently to all the presbyters : yet that is expresly spoken in opposition to the lord bishops , who usurped both into their own hands , as their peculiar prerogative : and though i say , ( else where in the way ) that in election & ordination of officers , the brethren may act ( if need be ) without officers : yet the very word of limitation ( if need be ) argueth , that in ordinary cases , ordination pertaineth to the presbyters , as other acts there mentioned doe pertaine to the presbyters , and brethren met together : but as for election , i take it to pertaine principally to the brethren . touching the 5th contradiction . the 5th contradiction followeth in this sort . 5. the keye of authority , or rule is committed to the elders of the church , and so the act of rule is the proper act of their office , keyes pag. 20. the people discerning , and approving the justice of the censure give consent and obedience to the will and rule of christ , keyes pag. 15. 37. 41. the people stand in an order , even an orderly subjection , according to the order of the gospel , pag. 11. 5. in case the officers doe erre and give offence they shall be governed by the whole body of the brethren , the way , pag. 100. the church exerciseth severall acts of authority over the elders , the way , pag. 101. the people have some storke of power and authority in the government of the church , pag. 36. they rule the church by appointing their own officers , ibid. pag. 16. ans. 1. the former columne in all the three places speaketh of elders walking in the right administration of their office then in propriety of speech the key of authority and rule is committed to them 1 tim. 5. 17. and is there made the proper act of their office , then it is that the people discerning the will and judgment of christ in their judgment , they do give consent and obedience to the will of christ in censures advised by them , then it is also that they walke in orderly subjection to their elders , heb. 13. 17. but the latter columne speaketh of the power of the church over the elders chiefly in case of the elders mal-administration of their office , or misgovernment of themselves . but then the power which the church putteth forth , it is not office power ( which is properly authority : ) but potestas honoraria . answer 2. in columne the second when it is said ; the people have some stock of power and authority in the government of the church , keyes pag. 36. they are the words of an objection , not of mine owne assertion , and though some where i speak of acts of authority over the elders , i do clearely explaine my selfe in the keyes ( pag. 36. ) that authority is taken in a large sense , and after a sort , when it is acknowledged , in the people over the elders , as 1. when a man acteth according to his owne will freely , he is then said to be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , dominus sui actus , so the people in all the acts of liberty , which they put forth , they are domini sui actus , lords of their owne actions . 2. the people by sundry acts of liberty , ( as in election of officers , in sending forth their messengers , in concurrence with their elders , in the admission of members , and censure of offenders , in the determination and promulgation of synodall acts ) they have a great stroke and power in the ordering of church affaires : which may be called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or potestas , a power which many times ( in common speech ) goeth under the name of rule or authority . but in proper speech , it is indeed a priviledge , or liberty , an {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or power rather then authority . it is a common speech usuall amongst our best divines , that the government of the church is mixt of a monarchy , an aristocracy , and a democracy . in regard of christ the head , the government of the church is soveraigne and monarchicall . in regard of the rule by the presbytery it is stewardly and aristocraticall : in regard of the peoples power in elections , and censures , it is democraticall . chap. 3. touching the sixth contradiction . the sixth contradiction is thus presented . 6. examination is one of the highest acts of rule : and therefore cannot be performed , but by some rulers . keyes pag. 16. the church cannot excommunicate the whole presbytery , because they have not received frō christ an office of rule without their officers , ibid. no act of the peoples power doth properly bind unlesse the authority of the presbytery joyne with it . ibid. pag. 36. 6. if all their officers were found culpable either in hereticall doctrine , or in scandalous crimes , the church hath lawfull authority to proceed against them all . the way , pag. 45. in case of offence given by an elder , or the whole eldership together , the church hath authority to require satisfaction , and if they give it not , to proceed to censure ibid. page 101. 6. excommunication is not an act of the power of office , but of judgment , nor an act of highest rule but of supreame judgment seated in the fraternity . surv. part . 3. pag. 45. as a church of brethren can not proceed to any publick censure without the elders so nor the elders without concurrence of the people , preface to the keyes pag. 4. answer 1. here is indeede a discrepance in expressions between the way , and the keyes . but it was not my act , that any such discrepance should have been extant . the truth is , that many yeares agoe , ( and some yeares before the suppressing of the bishops in england ) i was seriously moved by some of our brethren , and fellow elders here , to draw up an historicall narration of our church-way together with some familiar grounds of the same briefly . in short time as god helped , i dispatched it , which when our brethren had perused , i saw they did not close with it . yet a brother going for england , got some where a copy of it , and presented it to some of the congregationall way there : and i afterwards heard , that neither did they close with it : and in particular not with that passage , which is here recited , as a part of the contradiction . which since appeareth more openly , by the asterisk put upon that passage , and upon sundry other in the book : but before i saw that , and had only heard , that they did not fully accord , i hoped it had met with a timely suppression , rather then an impression : for i heard no more of it , for two , or three yeares after : meane while perceiving that one maine point of dissatisfaction , was the authority given to the fraternity , i considered more seriously and distinctly , of the whole power of the keyes , and expressed my apprehensions in that treatise of the keyes , which our brethren here did well accept , and so did the brethren ( of like judgment ) in england , and some of them were pleased to attest it with the preface which is now extant before it : yea i have heard ( as well as some other of our brethren here ) by some letters from england , that reverend mr rutherford ( who was a great part of the assembly at westminster ) offered to the dissenting brethren , that if they would come up to the treatise of the keyes , themselves would meet them there . but this was sundry yeares , after the treatise of the way had been finished , and carried to england , and ( as i hoped ) suppressed . but it seemeth some brother there , having got a copy of it , being zealous of the authority of the fraternity , and perceiving that their authority was not so fully acknowledged in the keyes as in the way ; he caused his copy of the way ( which was indeed abrupt in the entrance , and imperfect otherwise ) to be published in print : which when i saw , it troubled me not a little , as knowing , that the discrepant expressions in the one , and in the other , might trouble friends , and give advantage to adversaries . afterwards mr hooker coming downe from connectiquol , to consult with the elders here about his book ; he pleaded seriously for the placing of all church power , primitively , in the body of the church , and also for their judiciary power of censure over the presbytery , suitable to what i had delivered in the way ; now , though i cannot say , that his reasons did prevaile with me , to lter the placing of the first subject of the power of the keyes , from what i had delivered in the treatise of the keyes : yet perceiving that some mens judgments did more adhere as to his judgment , so to the former course of the way : others to that of the keyes , i suffered both to stand as they did , especially seeing i could not help it , the book of the way being published without my consent ; and both the way , and the keyes being disperst into many hands ( past my revoking ) and refuted by some ; so that if the replyer find some discrepancy in one of these bookes from the other , let him know that the doctrine of the way ( in such few points wherein it differeth from the keyes ) was not then mine when the keyes were published , much lesse when the way was published , which was many yeares after , though it had been penned many yeares before . and yet take all the discrepancyes , and weigh them ( i will not say with candour but with rigour ) and i do not yet remember , nor can i yet find any of them , but they lye rather in difference of logicall notion , then in doctrine of divinity , or church practise , as i said before . answer 2. this further ; let me acquaint both the replyer , and the reader withall , that sometimes there hath growne a question , amongst us whether all excommunication be an act of officiaria potestas , or not some honoraria only ? if of officiaria , it cannot be dispensed by the brethren only , as the first columne hath it . if of honoraria , it may , and so the second columne hath it : and then the contradiction is not ejusdem . neither is this censure dispensed by the brethren ( as i conceive ) one of the highest acts of rule ( which is to deliver unto satan 1 cor. 5. 5. ) but reacheth only to cast their elders , out of administration of office to them , and out of church communion with them . the truth is , ego libenter in eorum me numero esse profiteor , qui proficiendo scribunt , & scribendo proficiunt ; which gave me occasion to adde the third answer given above to the first contradiction , some things in the way which i delivered more laxly , i expresse more distinctly in the treatise of the keyes which followed after : and some things more fully and clearely , in the way cleared , then in either of the former . answer 3. when i say no act of the peoples part , doeth properly binde , unlesse the authority of the elder joyne with it ( keyes pag. 36. ) i would be understood to speak it as i meant it , of the elders walking without offence ; in the right administration of their office , and conversation of their lives . answer 4. when mr hooker saith . excommunication is not an act of office , power , nor of rule , but of supreame judgment seated in the fraternity , i easily grant that the excommunication dispensed by the fraternity is not an act of office-power ; but it may justly be inquired , whether excommunication , being dispensed by the elders with the consent of the church , be not an act , as of the churches honourable judiciall power , so of the elders office-power , and rule in the church ? for as the pastorall preaching of the elders is officiall , and so authoritative , though the preaching of other brethren ( as of the sonnes of the prophets ) be not so : so why may there not be the like difference , observed here ? to deliver unto satan seemeth to be an act of judiciall office-power , as when in another case it is said , the judge delivereth a man to the officer , and the officer casteth him into prison matth. 5. 25. he that casteth into prison is an inferiour officer . the judge must therefore be a superiour officer , that delivereth an offendour to the officer , to be cast into prison . in the excommunication of the incestuous corinthian ( where both the elders and brethren concurred ) the sentence might well be delivered in termes that expresse an act of highest authority , to deliver unto satan . but where the church is called to act against their elders ( who corrupt them with false doctrine ) there the apostle requireth the church , to mark them , and avoyd them , rom. 16. 17 , 18. which may expresse an act of liberty , and judiciall power , but not of authority . chap. 4. touching the seaventh , contradiction and eighth . the seaventh contradiction is thus gathered . 7. it was a sacrilegious breach of order , that commissaries and chancellours wanting the key of order ( no ministers ) have been invested with jurisdiction . yea and more then ministeriall authority , above those elders , who labour in word and doctrine . the keyes pag. 16. 7. there is a key of power given to the church ( with the elders ) as to open a doore of entrance to the ministers calling , so to shut the doore of entrance against them in some cases &c. the keyes p. 9. yea to censure all their elders ( without elders ) the way p. 45. as before . ans. the power given to the commissaries chancellors & : i justly called a sacrlegious breach of order in more respects than one . 1. in that being no ministers , they exercised more than ministeriall authority over the elders . for ministers doe not exercise authority over elders , no nor over any brother , but with consent of the church . but these doe it without , and against the consent of the church . 2. in that they exercise this authority even in churches wherein they have not received the key of order , and so stand not so much as in the order of members amngst them . 3. in that they proceed against them , not for crimes committed against the word of god , but for neglect of popish-canons or humane traditions . but now no authority allowed to brethren either in the keyes or in the way , cometh neere to this breach of order . for 1. in joyning with the elders to open a doore of entrance to minister's calling , they put forth no act of authority ( properly so called ) at all : but only exercise a liberty and power orderly which they have received from the lord jesus , to elect their own officers , as the peoples election of deacons ( act. 6. 2. to 5th . ) and their lifting up of hands in the choice of elders ( act. 14. 23. ) doth declare . and when they doe shut them forth it is not without their elders , where their elders are not wanting , or not wanting to their duty . and even then , they put forth no act of office rule , or authority ( properly so called ) as the commissaries doe , but only an act of judiciall power common to the whole church , 1 cor. 5. 12. 2. the people do exercise this power only in their own church where themselves are members , and have received a key of order . 3. they proceed not against any , much lesse against their elders , but for notorious offences , committed against the word of god , in doctrine or life , so that this contradiction speaketh as little ad idem as any of the former . touching the 8th contradiction . the 8th contradiction is represented thus . 8. we are so farre from allowing that sacrilegious usurpation of the ministers office , that private christians ordinarily take upon them to preach the gospell publickly , the keyes , pag 6. 8. this is ordinarily practised in england , and allowed by the independant brethren . yea they being but in the notion of gifted brethren , no ministers to other congregations , doe it ordinarily themselves . ans. 1. this contradiction is not of me to my selfe , but of some others , who whether they be independants truly so called , i doe not know : sure i am , that presbyterians and independants are not membra dividentia , though i see , that all that are not for popery , or episcopacy , or presbytery , doe commonly lurke under the style of independancy . i hope the replyer would be loth to renounce the protestant religion , because there are found some contradictions , and greater than these , in one of them to another . ans. 2. when i call it a sacrilegious usurpation for private christians ordinarily to take upon them to preach the gospell publickly , & to administer the sacraments ; yet this latter of administring the sacraments the replyer leaveth out , and so the contradictiction is not ad idem : which is a common failing in this , and the rest . for i would not say that it is a sacrilegious usurpation , for well gifted brethren ( where ordained ministers cannot be had ) there to preach ordinarily and publickly , especially if they be approved by those that have power , and requested thereto by the people , wherein i goe further in giving way to the prophecying of private brethren , than my reverend brethren ( the prefacers to the keyes ) doe , who only allow them to preach occasionally , and not ordinarily , which i speak only to this end , that the replyer and others may know , there is more consent and agreement in our judgments , then they take notice of , or sometimes our selves either . but if private brethren doe administer the sacraments at all whether ordinarily , or occasionally , it seemeth to me like the fact of uzziah in offering incense . chap. 5. touching the 9th contradiction . the 9th contradiction is layd out thus . 9. a particular church of saints professing the faith ( that is members without offices ) is the first subject of all the church . offices , with all their spirituall gifts & power , keyes pag. 31. 9. as the keyes of the kingdome of heaven are divers , so are the subjects to whom they are committed diverse , keyes pag. 11. the apostles were the first subject of apostolicall power . ibid. pag. 32. a synod is the first subject of that power whereby errour is convinced , and condemned . ibid. pag. 47. 9. the power of the keyes belongeth firstly to a congregation of covenanting believers , surv. part . ● . p. 219. the power of the keyes is in the church of believers , as in the first subject . ib. p. 195 that conceite is wide to make one first subject of this power , & yet others to share in this power , not by meanes of that , for this is to speak daggers , and contradictions . ibid. ans : 1. this is one of those differences , of which i spake before , that lyeth rather in logicall notion , than either in doctrine of divinity , or in church practise . against which the exception made above , hath been answered above , in clearing the first contradiction . ans. 2. there is no colour of contradiction betweene the two former columnes . for when i say a particular church is the first subject of all the church officers and their gifts , i speak not of this or that particular church , ( which is but an individuall ) but of a particular church taken indefinitely , which ( by meere errour of the printer ) is without sence said , taken independently , which is the disadvantage of us , who live so far remote from the presse , that we can neither prevent their mistakes nor correct them afterwards . but take a particular church indefinitely & it comprehendeth all particular churches : and that god hath given to particular churches all spirituall officers together with their gifts , for the discharge of their offices , is proved by evident texts of scripture , in that very page of the keyes 31. i doe not say ( as some doe ) that the church meaning the fraternity is the first subject of all spirituall gifts ( for then they had received them immediately without officers : ) but i say the offices and officers , not devoid of gifts , but furnished with their gifts , are given by christ to the church freely , and not to any other person or society , from whom the church receiveth them . but this no whit crosseth , what is said in the second columne , that elders are the first subjects of ordinary ministeriall power , and apostles of apostolicall power , and synods , of synodicall power . a wife may be the first subject of her own dowry , but yet her husband is the first subject recipient of his wife with her dowry . ans. 3. as for what is said differently by my brother hooker in the third columne , as his person and gifts and friendship were pretious and deare to me whilest he lived : so now that he resteth in glory , his name and memory , and labour ( saving some very few private notions ) are honourable , and blessed , with me , and i suppose with all that knew him . but in this logicall notion , i crave leave , not so much to dissent from him ( for he herein dissented from me , who wrote first , rather than i from him ) but leave i crave not to retract what i formerly wrote in the keyes touching this point , though i should as much suspect mine own judgment , where he dissenteth from me , as where any man . it is true he taketh the church of covenanted believers to be the first subject of the power of the keyes , vvhich if he meane no more , than that they have all church-power either formaliter , or radicaliter , and virtualiter , then there is no difference in our expressions ; but if he meane that that they are the first subject of all church-povver properly , two or three things detaine me from consenting with him herein . 1. that vvhich is the first subject of any povver receiveth it immediately vvithout any other intervening subject . as fire being the first subject of heate , receiveth not his heate from any former subject . but it is evident , that many a church of believers , hath not received pastorall gifts , nor it may be any gifts fit for office , 'till they fetch them from other churches , and sometimes from some who are not members of any particular church at all . 2. the first subject of any power , as it hath immediately received it : so it may immediately exercise it : as fire ( the first subject of heate ) can heate without intervention of any other subject . but the church hath not power immediately to exercise pastorall preaching , or administration of the sacraments , 'till it have procured and chosen , and called forth some or other gifted persons to exercise the same . 3. i might adde a third reason to both the former . whatsoever is properly the first subject of any power , it hath that same power , or some other equivalent , and analogicall to it , not only radicaliter and virtualiter , but formaliter also . and because formaliter , therefore radicaliter and virtualiter . for whatsoever is in any subject firstly , ( whether it be proper adjunct , or proper effect , or any other proper argument ) it either floweth from the forme , or from the matter so formed ; as for instance , capacity of learning , or risibility is in man , as in the first subject . the former floweth from the reasonable soule : the latter from the matter of a man so formed . but neither of these are in man radicaliter or virtualiter , but only because they are in a man formally , and so either flow from the forme , or from the matter so formed . take another instance , and of another sort . the people that have power to elect a king , though they have not formally kingly power , yet have they a formall power , to submit themselves to kingly power . and so haveing a formall power to put one of the relatives , they have an aequivalent and analogicall power to put the other correlative . for , posito uno relatorum , ponitur etiam & alterum . as for that which is quoted by the replyer from mr hooker , in the last clause of the third columne of this contradiction , i see not how it concerneth me , or contradicteth any thing in the former columnes . for i doe not make any first subject of church-power , and yet others to share in that power , but not by meanes of that . but as the keyes of the kingdome of heaven are diverse : so i see no inconvenience , that the first subjects to whom the severall keyes are committed , may be diverse also . neither doth the letter of the text seeme to me to gainesay that , mat. 16. 18. for though it speak , not to them but to thee ; a representing one state or condition of men : yet say that one condition to be believers and take believers in a large sence , it comprehendeth all sorts of professing believers , whether private members , or elders , or apostles , indeed all . but neither doe i see any convincing reason seeing peter stood in a threefold ecclesiasticall relation ( being both an apostle , and an elder , & a profest believer ) why christ committing the keyes to him ( saying to thee will i give them ) might not intend to give all the keyes ; and the severall sorts of them , according to the severall relations he stood in . if it be said all that share in the subject to whom the keyes are given ( in these words , to thee ) they all share alike in the same equall power of the keyes , because they have all the same commission : i answer it would indeed so follow , if there were no other severall commissions , granted in scripture else where , but only here ; but cleare it is from other scriptures , that power of authoritative preaching , and administering the sacraments , is given only to apostles , elders , and such like officers : but power of priviledge and judgment , is given all the fraternity . chap. 6. touching the 10th contradiction with the 11th 12th 13th . the 10th contradiction is thus held forth . 10. pastour and flocke are relates : and so he is a pastour to none but his owne congregation . this is the common tenent . 10. the members of any church we adm●t t● the lords table ( if they bring letters testimoniall . ) and their children to baptisme . the way p. 68. the keyes , p. 17. 10. administration of sacraments is a ministeriall act : and what authority hath a pastour to do it , or they to receive it from him to whom he is no pastour ? mr. hocker surv. part. 2. 64 , 65. pastours and teachers might pray and preach in other churches besides their owne : but not administer seales and censures . bartlets modell pag. 63. answer 1. that appearance of contradiction is easily removed , if our doctrine and practise be knowne , as it is , what a pastour doeth in his owne congregation , and to his owne flock , he doeth it by pastorall power , and authority , what he doth to the members of other churches , abroad , or out of his own congregation , he doeth it not authoritativè , but precariò , and not in a constant , but in a transient way : which the communion of churches doth not only admit , but readily ( as occasion serveth ) desire . what mr hooker doubted of in this point , he answereth himselfe in the end of the same pag. 65. if paul , apollos , and cephas , things present and things to come , be all given to the particular church of corinth ( 1 cor. 3. 22. ) who yet had no peculiar interest in them more then other churches . by the same right all the officers , and all their gifts are theirs also , in the same way . theirs they are not {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ( for each church hath his peculiar offices , as their owne propriety ) : then they are theirs {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , for their use , not authoritatively , nor ordinarily , but occasionally , as god giveth opportunity ; ordinarily as the officers must attend to their owne flock , so must the flock depend upon their owne officers . the officers have no authority over any flock , but that which the holy ghost hath committed to them : neither can any other flock command the employment of any of their gifts , or any act of their office amongst them . but upon occasion , in a transient way , as they may have need of their gifts , so they may have need of some act of their office , and accordingly may desire it , and receive it . the 11th contradiction which is thus set forth . 11. we receive the sacrament of the lords supper ( say the same of ' baptisme ) as a se●le of communion , not only with the lord jesus in our owne churches but in all the churches of the saints , keyes pag. 17. del. of 9. posit pag. 133 , 134. 11. baptisme ( and so the other sacrament ) sealeth up the externall communion with a particular church &c. mr h. surv. part. 3. pag. 27. and he disputes against it , as to the catholick church . answer : when we say , that the sacraments are seales of communion with the lord jesus not only in our owne church , but in all the churches of the saints , we do not meane that they seale up the same measure of externall communion with other churches , as with our owne . they do not seale up this communion , that their officers are our officers , and we their flock : or that we have the same power over them , which we have over our owne members . this were to seale up not a communion but a confusion of churches ; and this is that which mr hooker in the place alledged doeth deny as our selves also do . the 12th contradiction is thus declared . 12. it is an act of the elders power and authority to examine whether officers , or members , before they be received of the church , keyes pag 21. 12. as for admission , election , ordination of officers , admission or shutting out of members , these things the brethren may do without officers , the way p. 45. 101 answer : the answer is obvious , what the elders do in this kind , ex officio , the church may do the like in the want of elders . the 13th contradiction is set before us thus . 13. ordination is then compleat when the people hath chosen an officer , and the presbytery hath laied their hands on him , keyes p. 37. 13. but if the church want a presbytery , for want of elders they want a warrant to repaire to the presbytery of another church to impose hands upon their elect elders , way , p. 50. answer : in that place of the keyes , i only assert and prove , that a man of sufficient gifts chosen by the people of the church , and ordained by the presbytery of his owne church , wanteth nothing to the compleat integrity of his calling . the right hand of fellowship given by the elders of other churches expresseth their approbation of his calling , but addeth nothing to the essence , or integrity of his calling . but when i say that in want of a presbytery of their owne , they want a warrant to repaire to the presbytery of another church for his ordination , i no where say , that the officer elected , wanteth the complete integrity of his calling , for want of the imposition of hand , of the presbytery of another church . and yet that had been requisite to make up a pretence of a contradiction . the replyer knoweth that a church wanting a presbytery of their owne to lay hands upon an elect officer in our judgment , they may appoint some of the elders and graver members of their owne body , to supply the defect of their owne presbytery ; which we account sufficient to the completing of his calling in such a case . but when i said ( in the way ) that the church wanting a presbytery , they wanted a warrant to repaire to the presbytery of another church to impose hands upon their elect elders , i meant in way of subordination to an extrinsecall power . for it is against that which both the reasons plead , which i there alleadged for that purpose . but i no where dislike , that a church wanting a presbytery of their owne may send for elders of other churches , to assist them , and to joyne with them in the ordination of their elect officers . chap. 7. touching the 14th contradiction with 15. and 16. the 14th contradiction is thus laied out . 14. paul and barnabas were ordained to that office ( of apostleship ) by the imposition of hands of some officers or members of the church , way , p. 45. 14. in act. 13. 2 , 3. there is no ordination to office at all : for the apostles had their office before mr. hooker , surv. part. 2. p. 83. this was not to put a new office upon them , but to confirme their sending to the gentiles ib. p. 60. 14. this was done in a particular church keyes , p. 29. the officers of one church did what was done in an ordinary way , surv. parr . 2. p. 83. then it followeth ( by mr. c. ) his doctrine that the apostles who were officers in all churches were ordained in a particular church : or that officers of a church may be ordained in another church : which he said was unwarrantable . ans. 1. when i say ( in the way ) that paul and barnabas , were ordained to the apostolick office by imposition of hands of some officers of the church at antioch ( act. 13. 1 , 2 , 3. ) it is not disproved ( by mr hooker ) saying that they had had their office before . for i noe where say , that ordination giveth the office , but only approveth it and solemnely , ( as it were ) installeth the elect officer into it , and sendeth him forth with a blessing into the administration of it . neither when he saith , that there is there no ordination unto office at all , doth he contradict what i affirme , for his meaning is , to deny it in mr rutherford's sence , who speaketh there of ordination , as giving the calling unto the office : which mr hooker disproveth , and therein i concurre with him . for it puts no new office upon them , but bare witnesse to that calling , which the holy ghost had given them . when mr hooker saith , the officers of one church did what was done in an ordinary way , he himselfe inferreth the consequence , therefore it is no precedent for the pastors of many churches , what either they may or should doe . but the inferences which mr cawdry gathereth , as from my doctrine out of that text , either will not hold , or not hurt our cause . for this inference will not hold , that then the officers of one chuch may be ordained in another . for they were as much officers of the church of antioch , as of any other churches , it will only inferre , that they who are officers in many churches , may be ordained in any one of them . the other inference will in part follow that some of the apostles ( who were officers in all churches ) may be ordained in a particular church , when the holy ghost calleth for it . for they act now not in their own name , or power , but in the great name , and soveraigne power of the lord jesus , who is the head of all churches . but what prejudice is that to our cause ? or wherein doth it contradict any of our tenents ? the 15th contradiction is thus declared . 15. what if the whole presbytery offend ? the readiest course is to bring the matter to a synod , the keyes pag. 43. 15. there is a readier and nearer way ; the brethren may censure them all , way pag. 45. if the congregation be found faithfull and willing to remove an offence by due censure , why should the offence be called up to a more publicke judicature . keyes pag. 42. ans. this contradiction is made partly out of the concealment of part of my words in the first columne , and partly out of the addition of some words of his own in the second columne . in the former columne i say , if the whole presbytery offend , or such a part as will draw a party , and a faction in the church with them , the readiest course then is , to bring the matter to a synod where those words , such a part as will draw a party , or faction in the church with them , are given for the just reason , why in such a case , the case of the offending presbytery , or other such leading members in the church should be brought to a synod , before it be censured in the church . but in the words recited in the latter columne , i speak of the congregation as agreeing together , and both faithfull and willing to proceed against hereticall doctrine and scandalous crimes in whomsoever . and then they need not trouble the synod to cleare the case , which is already cleare unto themselves , so that this contradiction speaketh not ad idem . the one columne speaketh of a church , divided into parts and factions , and their readiest course is to bring the matter to a synod . the second columne speaketh of a church both faithfull and willing to proceede against offences with one accord . and then they have sufficient power within themselves , to judge that which is right , and to execute their judgment . that which is added of the replyers own words , in the latter columne , doth help not a little to make up an appearance of the contradiction . in the keyes i had sayd ( in the case above mentioned ) it is the readiest course to bring the matter to the synod . in the way he quoteth my words , as if i had said , there is a readier and nearer way . the brethren may censure them all . if these words had been mine , there had been an appearance of contradiction . to say this is the readyest course , and yet to say , a discrepant course is a readier and nearer way , is ( at least , verbo tenus ) an apparent contradiction . but the truth is , those words are none of mine , but the replyers own . and so it will be an easy matter to make up contradictions ( tot quot ) if we may take leave , in one sentence to conceale part of the words necessary to make up the sense , and in another sentence to adde words of our owne . the 16th contradiction is delivered thus . 16. it belongeth to the civill magistrate , to establish pure religion , in doctrine , worship and government : partly by civill punishment upon the wilfull oppressours , and disturbers of the same . keyes p. 50. 16. yet the brethren here call for , or tolerate toleration of all opinions , and deny the magistrate power to punish any pretending conscience bartlets model , pag. 128. 16. see mr. bartlets modell p. 25. contrà ans. 1. this contradiction laboureth of the same disease ( as the rest generally doe ) it speaketh not ad idem . such as require the magistrate to establish pure religion , in doctrine , worship and government , and to restraine the willfull opposers and disturbers thereof by civill punishments , they speak of fundamentals in religion , and such opinions as apparently tend to libertinisme , and licentious ungodlynesse , as mr bartlet expresseth it , modell pag. 126. but the toleration which they allow and call for , is of such opinions , as neither subvert the foundation of religion , nor practise of piety . both these may be maintained without the least shew of the face of contradiction . further i find this in mr bartlet , that himselfe and some others are not free , that hereticks should be put to death , in case they keep their errors to themselves , and doe not seek to seduce , and corrupt others . and though i grant , that such an heretick after once or twice admonition may be rejected out of the church ( according to titus 3. 10 , 11. ) yet i doe not finde , that moses condemned them unto death , unlesse they became blasphemers , or idolators , or seducers to idolatry . what christ , and moses doe both of them tolerate , the servants of christ need not to be ashamed of such toleration . ans. 2. this contradiction ( for ought i can discerne ) laboureth also crimine falsi . for it seemeth a manifest untruth , what he speaketh in columne 2. that the brethren call for , or tolerate toleration of all opinions , and deny the magistrate power to punish any pretending conscience , mr bartlet alledged for the proofe hereof , p. 128. saith no such thing , and the contrary he proveth , from the expresse testimony of mr burroughs , mr thomas goodwin , & others of that way . the 8th chapt. touching the 17th contradiction with 18. 19. the 17th contradiction is thus set forth . 17. visible saints though they be hypocrites inwardly , are the matter of a visible church . mr. hook . part . 1. p. 14. 15. 17. you say saints in outward profession are the matter of a congregationall church : we judge that reall saints uttering in discourse the breathings of the holy spirit , and experiences of conversion , interested in a stricter conversation to be the matter . dr. holmes epistle to way cleared . pag. 4. mr. bartlet speaketh something ( this language ) can there be ability for spirituall & holy services , where the spirit is not yet given ? can there be communion between light and darknesse ? can they edify one another in the faith , that have not the work of faith wrought in them ? modell . p. 57. see more pag. 103. ans. what mr hooker's judgment was , is expressed in that first columne : what mine own , is declared , and i hope , cleared in the holynesse of church-members . what dr holmes and mr bartlet doe further require in it , they declare what church-members ought to be de jure , especially in their first constitution , rather then what they are , or are wont to be de facto , especially in their declension . againe i see mr bartlet speaketh in opposition to the members of the parish churches , who are in many places ignorant , loose , profane and scandalous livers , who are not indeed visible saints , pag. 56. it is true there is some work of the spirit , where ever there is a visible saint . but the spirit giveth many gifts to the edification of others ( as to judas and demas ) which often doe not reach to the regeneration of him that receiveth them . the 18th contradiction is thus stated . 18. the forme of the visible church is the covenant , either explicite , or implicite : and the latter is sometimes fully sufficient mr. h. surv. part . 1. pag. 47. 48 and others . 18. you say an implicit uniting , viz. a walking and communicating with you is a sufficient evidencing of the forme : we say , their folemne confession of their faith & expresse open covenanting with the lord to wake with such a body of saints , in all the wayes of christ to be the manifest forme . d. holmes ibid. 18. it is not generall profession will serve the turne , but there must be a peculiar engagement and appropriation to this or that particular body , mr. h. surv. pag 63. yet he said an implicite covenant was sufficient . ans. the expressions of mr h. quoted in columne 1 : and columne 3 : will not amount to an opposition of himselfe , much lesse to a contradiction . for though he make an implicite covenant sufficient , yet a generall profession will not serve the turne ; to make an implicite covenant . for an implicite covenant must be with reference to this or that particular body : or else it is neither covenant at all , nor implicite . a generall profession entreth not any man into any relation with any church , unlesse he offer himselfe to joyne with them as mr hooker in that place more largely , & truly openeth himselfe . neither doth dr holms his expression contradict him . for he that maketh the explicite covenant the manifest forme of the church , he doth not gainesay the implicite covenant to be a real forme of the church , though not so manifest but more obscure . the 19th contradiction is thus delineated . 19. we crave leave of the authour of the keyes , to declare that we assent not to all expressions , or all and every assertion in it : as in these particulars . about the prothesying of private brethren . 2. that the assembly ( act. 15. ) was a formall syned . 3. that the apostles acted in it , as ordinary elders , preface to keyes . pag. 6. 19. we doe in this epistle certifie our assent to the way of the churches of new england . saving that we doe not fully close with some expressions passim in the bock : before some of which ( 10 at least , belike there are more ) we minded to note a star in the margin . this we could not but say and doe ( pace authoris ) or we could not assent , epistle to the way pag. 2. 19. yet they are angry that we call for a fuller declaration of themselves , epistle to the way . p. 1. and epistle to the way cleared pag. 2. answer : 1. though my reverend brethren crave leave to dissent from me in some expressions ( which they may safely and freely do without my leave , for i professe my spirit subject to the prophets : ) yet about the prophecying of private brethren , i must againe professe as i did before , that i do not know , wherein i dissent from them : unlesse it be that i allow somewhat more liberty to the prophecying of private brethren , then they do . the allowance , which they give is with foure limitations . 1. that is be done occasionally , and not in ordinary course . 2. by men of such abilities , as are fit for office . 3. not assuming this to themselves , but as they are allowed , and designed to it by such , as have power . 4. that their doctrine be subjected to the teaching elders of the church . graunt these limitations , and i never scrupled ( to my remembrance ) the liberty of prophecying by private brethren , yea this liberty i should further graunt , that though the private brethren be not furnished , with abilities fit for publick office , yet there may be occasion , to call them forth to exercise their gifts ; as in the suddaine sicknesse or absence of the minister , and other officers , why may not a private brother be called forth by the church , or stirred up by the spirit of god in himselfe to stand up , and with leave , instruct and exhort the church , to make a sanctifyed use of such a suddaine stroke of providence ? or what if a private brother of good credit in the church shall observe the doctrine of the ministers not so much válued as were meet ? why may he not take occasion , to speak some words of encouragement , and confirmation , both to the minister and to the congregation ? jehosaphat's nobles , though princes , yet were but as private brethren in the church , as bearing no publick church-office : yet they taught in the cities of juda , what respect was due to the ministery of the levites , whom they brought with them , when my beloved brethren do not acknowledge the assembly of apostles , elders , and brethren acts 15. to have been a formall synod of messengers sent out of a set and combined association from neighbour churches , they do not herein dissent from me . for the two churches of antioch and jerusalem were too farre remote to stand in a set , or combined association , and therefore they may well deny it to be a formall synod , according to the forme of synods now in use in presbyteriall churches . but that that assembly had the true matter and forme of a just synod , as i do believe it , so i do not see that my brethren deny it . for the efficient cause of the synod , the church of antioch sent messengers : and the church of jerusalem ( whose officers were sent unto ) they freely gave them a meeting , and the church with them . for the matter of the synod , they had the messengers , officers , and brethren of both churches met together in the name of christ . it is not necessary to the being of a synod the convention of the messengers and members of many churches , the convention of two churches ( by themselves or messengers ) may make a synod . if the convention of one church may make a synagogue , why may not the convention of two churches make a synod ? the forme of a synod they had , in arguing , and disputing the case in hand , and freely giving in their judgments from scripture grounds , and at length determining the whole cause with the joynt consent of the apostles , elders , and brethren , and publishing the same by letters , and messengers to all the churches whom it concerned . the establishment of peace and truth in the churches , was the end of this synod , as it ought to be the end of all . it is true , here was a consultation , in that the church of antioch sent for counsell : and the apostles and elders met to consult , and consider of the matter . but consultation was but one act of the assembly , many other formall acts of a synod they put forth besides , which have been specified . the apostles though they did put forth some acts of their apostolicall power , in helping to cleare the truth by explayning obscure scriptures , and in ratifying the conclusion with some greater plerophory of the mind of the holy ghost : yet in putting such things to argumentation , and disputation , and allowing elders and brethren liberty of putting in their votes , and determining , and publishing the sentence , in the name and with the common consent of all , herein they acted as ordinary elders and messengers of churches , might and ought to do . the notes of about ten passages in the way , wherein our reverend brethren in england ( or some of them ) say they could not fully close with them , without affixing an asterisk to them , if i knew where , the pinch of the difficulty lay , i would addresse my selfe , to give them fuller satisfaction either by condescending to them , or giving them just reason why i could not . meane while i have learned ( through grace ) not to fall out with my brethren , for greater differences in judgment , then those be . that which is added in the third columne , that they are offended ( and , as you call it , angry with you ) for that you call for a fuller declaration of themselves , for that , themselves can best give you an account : for 1. it may be , they think it needlesse to publish further declaratiōs , because over & above the former declarations , there have been since published three , or foure pithy pregnant declarations of the same argument ; as mr hookers surv : mr nortons answer to apollonius , the synod at cambridge , the defence of the answer to the nine questions . 2. it may be they feare , if they should publish more declarations in this case , it would adde rather more fewell to contention , then prevaile with the spirits of men , contrary minded to receive satisfaction . chap. 9. touching the 20th contradiction and 21. the 20th contradiction is thus expressed . 20. it is generally asserted by them , that one church hath not power to censure another . 20. a synod hath power to determine , to withdraw communion from them , if they cannot heale them , keyes , pag. 24. 20. the sentence of non communion denounced against whole churches apolog. narrat . p. 18 , 19. if a sentence denounced it is a censure . answer : to withdraw communion from a church , is no more an act of power over a church , then it was to joyne in communion with them . communion and non-communion are acts of the same power : both of them acts of priviledge or liberty . and if withdrawing communion be not an act of censure , then to determine so to withdraw , is no act of an higher nature . though a censure is a sentence denounced , yet every sentence denounced is not a censure , unlesse it be denounced by an higher power , then that of equalls . when the ten tribes denounced their rejection of service to david's house ( 1 kings 12. 16. ) it was not a censure more then theirs , who solemnely rejected the rule of christ : we will not have this man to rule over us , luk. 19. 14. the last contradiction is declared thus . 21. we say instituted worship and ordinances do not flow immediatly from spirituall union , and relation to christ , and his members &c. def. of 9. pos. pag. 76. he must come at them in a right order , to w●t in fellowship of the church surv. pag. 2. 21. then it followeth , that hearing the word preached singing of psalmes and baptisme , belong not to any , but such as are members of a particular congregation . and yet they say ordinarily hearing it no signe of a church member , surv. part . 1. pag. 18. 21. a person hath his first right to the sacrament ( and so to other ordinances , because he hath an interest in the covenant of the gospell , surv. part . 1. pag. 65. answer : here is no semblance of contradiction ; mr hooker surv. saith , a person hath his first right to a sacrament , because he hath an interest in the covenant of the gospell . the defence saith he hath not immediate right till he be a member of a particular congregation . and so saith the survey too , in the place alledged . if immediate right , and first right were all one , there were some colour for the exception : but it is farre otherwise ; in having christ , we have a first right to all things , but not an immediate right but in gods way . but neither hence will it follow , that instituted ordinances ; as hearing the word , singing of psalmes , belong to none but to members of a particular congregation . for though they be given to such firstly , and immediately : yet for their sakes to all that come in amongst them . the childrens table and the provisions thereof is first allowed to the children of the family ; yet in a bountifull house-keepers family , such part of the pro●●sions may be allowed to strangers , as they may be fit to partake in . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a34675e-130 vid. gerard . loc. com. de minist. ecclesiast . sect. 11. 12. the present separation self-condemned and proved to be schism as it is exemplified in a sermon preached upon that subject / by mr. w. jenkyn ; and is further attested by divers others of his own persuasion all produced in answer to a letter from a friend. jane, william, 1645-1707. 1678 approx. 213 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 69 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a70371 wing j454 estc r18614 12350071 ocm 12350071 59953 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a70371) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 59953) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 716:16 or 869:47) the present separation self-condemned and proved to be schism as it is exemplified in a sermon preached upon that subject / by mr. w. jenkyn ; and is further attested by divers others of his own persuasion all produced in answer to a letter from a friend. jane, william, 1645-1707. jenkyn, william, 1613-1685. s. r. to his worthy friend h. n. brinsley, john, fl. 1581-1624. h. n. [2], 134, [1] p. printed for edward croft ..., london : 1678. identified as j648 in reel guide and on film; cancelled in wing (cd-rom 1996). reproduction of original in huntington library and cambridge university library. attributed to william jane. cf. bm. signed on page 17: h.n. [i.e. w. jane?] the sermon [by william jenkyn]: p. 19-42. "to his worthy friend h.n.", signed: s.r., p. 43-134. "a sermon preached by w. jenkin ... printed in quarto, 1652" and "the arraignment of the present schism by john brinsley. london, 1646", in parallel columns, p. 123-132. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -n.t. -jude i, 19 -sermons. schism -early works to 1800. sermons, english -17th century. 2007-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-05 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-06 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-06 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the present separation self-condemned , and proved to be schism : as it is exemplified in a sermon preached upon that subject , by mr. w. jenkyn : and is further attested by divers others of his own persuasion . all produced in answer to a letter from a friend . manton on james , pag. 404. true wisdom , as it will not sin against faith by error , so not against love by schism . london , printed for edward croft at the seven stars in little lumbard street . 1678. sir , upon the discourse that passed not long since betwixt you and me , concerning the present differences amongst us in this nation , and the difficulties you then pressed me with , about the nature and reasons of schism , and the side which the sin of it would lie upon ; i began to consider of it , and forthwith resolved to see what i could meet with of that subject amongst that party you so boldly charge with it , especially before their exclusion , when they might be supposed to speak impartially . and amongst the rest , having procured of a friend the notes of a sermon long since preached by mr. jenkin , i diligently read it over , and thought it a discourse very well calculated to bring this matter to an issue betwixt us : for which end , having compared it with and corrected it by what he afterward printed upon that text , i did resolve to send it to you . this , i confess , i the rather pitched upon , as he is yet alive , and is able to justifie it ; and because you also urged me with some objections offered in particular against him , and his proceedings in the case , and did affirm , that he , with the rest of his brethren , durst not now own what they had formerly preached , or preach what they formerly did about separation , lest they should revive what they hope is by this time forgotten , and disquiet the ashes of the old nonconformists , whose followers they profess to be , but herein , as you said , widely differ from . i must confess my self not to have been a little disturbed at those passages that you produced out of some of them , and could not but transcribe that from mr. calamy , in his apologie against an unjust invective , pag. 10. viz. what will mr. burton say to old mr. dod , mr. hildersham , mr. ball , mr. rathband , & c ? did not these reverend ministers see the pattern of gods house ? and yet it is well known , that they wrote many books against those that refused communion with our churches ( he means the episcopal ) , and were their greatest enemies . and i cannot forget another you shewed me out of the vindication of the presbyterial government , pag. 135. published by the provincial assembly of london , 1650. ( of whom you told me mr. jenkin was one ) viz. there were many godly and learned nonconformists of this last age , that were persuaded in their consciences , that they could not hold communion with the church of england , in receiving the sacrament kneeling , without sin ; yet did they not separate from her . indeed , in that particular act they withdrew ; but yet so , as that they held communion with her in the rest ; being far from a negative , much more from a positive separation . nay , some of them , even when our churches were full of sinful mixtures , with great zeal and learning defended them so far , as to write against those that did separate from them . i do acknowledge , that i am not able to reconcile all things of this nature , and that it is very hard to shew where the difference lies betwixt now and then , and to find out what the people have to scare them from communion with the church of england now , that they had not in those times ; and why what mr. cartwright , mr. dod , &c. wrote then in defence of it , will not still so far hold good . but i hope you easily conceive , that the case is not the same with the ministers as the people . for the people , it is confessed , and you gave me an undeniable proof of the general belief of the present nonconformists in this matter , viz. that when by the late act of parliament every one that was in any office of trust was required to receive the sacrament of the lords supper according to the usage of the church of england , they that amongst them were concerned , were generally advised to it by their own pastors , and few , if any , were found to refuse it ; which doubtless they would have done , if either they or their pastors had thought that they had sinned in so doing ; and their own interest , or the capacity they might be in of doing better services in their places , than out of them , would not have made it lawful , if it had not been thought lawful in it self . and therefore i do very readily grant this . but withal i hope you do perceive , that there is a great difference betwixt the people and their ministers , betwixt the peoples communicating with , and the ministers officiating in the church : for the ministers are in order to this required to renounce the covenant , and to assent and consent to the use of the liturgie . and therefore , though the people may now communicate upon the same terms that the people did before the wars ( when separation from the church of england was proved to be schism by the great nonconformists of those times , as is abovesaid ) , and the ministers may now communicate upon the same terms as the people , yet they cannot do it as ministers ; and what reason is there that they should degrade themselves , who are ( as mr. jenkin saith , on jude , pag. 21. ) church-officers betrusted with the ordering of the church , and for opening the doors of the churches communion , by the keys of doctrine and discipline ; and be no more than private christians , that have no power in these matters , as he there observes ? is this nothing , to be , from rulers of the flock , turned down amongst the common herd ; and from being keepers of the keys , to be brought under the power of them ? but supposing that they could thus far condescend , yet do you make nothing of the apostles necessity , and woe is me ? or think you it fit , after so sacred a character as that of ordination , that they can clear themselves if they neglect it ? consider what is written in a book called sacrilegious desertion of the holy ministry rebuked , pag. 30. viz. is a vow and dedication to preach the gospel , no reason to preach it elsewhere , when it 's forbidden in your assemblies ? is the alienation of consecrated persons no sacrilege ? you told me indeed , that supposing they were under the like necessity ( which you said they were not ) , yet , that as st. paul's necessity did not , so neither did theirs confine them to any particular place , time , or number ; that preaching was not more so , when it was to many , than to few , in publick than in private , in london than the countrey ; and that as the law did permit them to preach to five besides their own family , so it did not forbid them private conference elsewhere ; a way that the nonconformists do so much recommend , that one of them , in his advice to the rest , saith of it , that publick hearing without personal conference , seldom bringeth men to understand well what you say , ( sacrileg . disert . pag. 93. ) and therefore that you conceived not how st. paul's wo , or their ordination , did oblige them to flock up to the capital city , or to betake themselves to the chiefest towns , and to draw great numbers together ; no more than it did before bartholomew in 62 , to follow the same course . but , sir , i will onely ask you , whether you think it not better to preach to many , than to few ; and in publick , than in corners ; and in towns , than villages ; and in london , than the country ? in villages people will jog on in their old way , they have neither much curiosity nor leisure ; or whatever is there taught or learned , spreads no further : but you know , teach london , and you teach the whole nation ; thence the light before the wars shone forth into all parts ; and after when heresies were hatched and nourished up under her wings , from her they spread all the kingdom over , as is observed by the provincial assembly of london , in their vindication , pag , 119. and the same way doubtless is still to be observed , if any good is to be done . and it is the same as to the places of eminency in the country . and therefore whatever becomes of the remote parts , and the little places , great care is here to be taken , that the souls in cities and corporations be not deserted , as the author of sacrilegious desertion doth hint , p. 69. and better leave those to shift for themselves , than to leave these unsupplied . which gives a very good account , why they flock so much from the country to the town . and if you still persist to demand , why it was not thought so before 62 ? the answer is ready ; for then london was their own , and the pulpits were safe , when kept by those that were of their own persuasion : but the case being now otherwise , if they should retire , and not keep up a distinct party , the city would be another thing , and the whole nation be in danger of infection . and then what would become of them and their families ? for there are not very many of them that were bred up to the understanding of trade , or keeping books of account , and that can shift for themselves as other men ; and if put by that way of livelihood , where must they seek for it ? as there cannot be a walking , without a moving ( as mr. jenkin judiciously observes on jude , pag. 447. ) ; so there cannot be an eating without food : and how food is to be had on their part , without preaching , is not easie to imagine . do you think , if they had betaken themselves to instruct their flocks , that they left , by private conference ( as the author of the address to the nonconformists propounds , pag. 199. ) , that those who now support them in point of livelihood in the way they are in , would do the same in the other way , as that author conjectures ? nay , if they were left to the mercy of the act of parliament , which allows five beside their own family , and did govern themselves by it , can you think that would turn to any account ? alas , sir , you know charity is grown cold in these times ; and if they put all upon that issue , we may say , god help them , for it may be feared the people will not . we know , sir , and you cannot be ignorant of it , that it 's a publick way , and the being followed and admired by multitudes , when the members have the reputation of being joyned to a numerous and wealthy congregation , and where trade may be promoted , that opens the purses , and , shall i say , engages the hearts of not a few ; and therefore if you will not allow them to preach in this way , you must not allow them to live and eat as other folk . methinks your own experience should open your eyes , and let you see what difference is made betwixt him that labours in the word , and him that doth not ; betwixt him that preacheth at such convenient seasons , that he may resort to the publick worship , and is willing to shew , that he and the church of england in effect are one ; and him that preacheth in opposition to it , at the same time with the publick , and thereby proclaimeth , that he and the church are two . alas , sir , the city-mouse did not more excel the country , than one here doth the other , in the provisions of his table , and the munificence of his benefactors . the one lives by preaching , and lives plentifully ; the other lives by his learning , in the sense of the scholar that sold his books to maintain himself with , as some of them whom i know you love and reverence are reported to do ; and others forced to be beholden to conformists , that have made private collections for them . these are they that the author of sacrilegious desertion , pag. 111. is to be understood of , when he saith , that the french impression of the councils is too dear for the purse of a nonconformable minister . and besides , sir , is it nothing , think you , for a man to walk disconsolately through the streets , hardly taken notice of , and his worth and learning covered by his cloak and modesty ; and another in the mean time sailing along , perhaps with two or three attendants , and ever and anon one or other stepping forth to salute him with a lowly reverence ? and is not this another material difference betwixt him that preacheth , and him that preacheth not ; betwixt him that preacheth in the one way , and him that preacheth in the other before spoken of ? nay , is it not come to this , that those they call moderate yielding men are scarcely endured , but even their reputations are clancularly struck at by their brethren ; insomuch that they are fain to carry it with more wariness , and comply more than otherwise they would , that they may not be the marks of their reproches ? hence , i believe , it was , that after the book entituled the cure of church-divisions had exasperated the party , anno 1670. the author , to lick himself a little whole in their esteem , made some amends for his transgression , in his thundring book of sacrilegious desertion , in the year 1672. and i guess , that it is for the same reason , that when he publickly professed , that the notorious necessity of the people , who were more than the parish-church could hold , moved him to preach at the same hours with the publick ; and that he met not under any colour and pretence of any religious exercise in other manner than according to the liturgie , and the practice of the church of england ; and were he able , that he would accordingly read himself : yet that he never had that read ; and since his disposal of that place , doth preach occasionally in the meeting-places of the city , at the same hours , where there is none of that necessity before pleaded by him , and where the churches generally rather want auditors , than auditors churches . and so much are they under the awe of this , that you know , when dr. manton himself was asked why he used not the lords prayer , he replied , that he omitted it , not that he thought it unlawful , but lest by the use of it he should give offence to some of his brethren , and his own people . so that you see , sir , to what a pass things are brought , and that it is as necessary for them thus to do , as it is to retain the esteem of their party ; and as necessary to retain that esteem , as it is to have a livelihood where it is wanted , or to be accounted godly and religious . now , sir , i know not how you may like this , to suffer disrespect , and want , and discouragement ; but if you do , i 'le assure you that i know but few that are of your mind . for is not respect to be valued before contempt ; providing for a mans house , before neglecting it ; and especially , when this is consistent with , and obtained in the service of god ? and now i am fallen upon the thing that i perceive you would bring me to , when you charge them upon mr. jenkin's principles , who saith , that admiration of mens persons , and self-conceit , self-seeking , and pride , are the most general causes of schism , as i see that he doth , pag. 26 , 27 , 28. of this sermon . causes , you said , as evident among them , as their schism it self , and by which , with no little art , they bolster it up . thus they take to themselves the title of the servants of god , and give to the people that of the godly and the gracious ; and for their encouragement , magnifie their numbers , and which they take all occasions to represent . as , a nonconformist can no sooner die , but it shall be spread through all the congregations , who are told by their ministers the lords-day before his interment , that such a one is lately dead , and to be buried at such a time , from such a place , where he desires them to be , and to shew their respects by attending his corps to its funeral . in order to which , his praises are sounded from the pulpit , and he sainted by some little poet , and his sayings , that have either been ordinarily used by him in discourse , or frequently dropped from him in the pulpit , are collected ; and then sermon , poem , and sayings vented amongst the multitudes crowding from all quarters of the town , and that are as proud to carry one of them home , as the poor zealots in the church of rome are to get any rag that hath but touched the reliques of their saint in a solemn procession . after which rehearsal , you bid me consider , how this would look if done in the church of england . but , sir , this is a course that seems to me not at all unreasonable , in their circumstances ; it being very necessary , that they should , above all things , get the peoples esteem , and very fit that the people should testifie their esteem of them ; and why not in this way of attendance on them ? for , first , it 's a comfort to the church under the loss of their pastor , to see him respected when dead , as he was when alive . secondly , by burying their pastor with honour , and putting themselves into mourning , and engaging others to follow him to his burial , they do shew the respect that they had to him in a day of persecution and distress , when despised by others ; and that they continued constant to him to the death . thirdly , it 's good to shew the world that they are not so despicable for quality or number , as is pretended . and are not these reasons sufficient to justifie their practice in this case , and to shew , how it would not so well become you in your church , as it doth them in theirs ? but , i perceive , this that i said last of all stuck most in your stomach , as you judged it a kind of an open challenge and defiance to authority ; and you thought that you had me at a great advantage , when you so readily brought chapter and page upon me from mr. jenkin on jude , pag. 623. viz. that miserable is that commonwealth whose manners have brought their laws under their power . for you considered not , that this is spoken of irreligious persons , and civil affairs ; but in the matters of religion , i hope , you know better , and that the more contemptible the laws about those things are made , and the weaker the authority is to put them into execution , the safer they themselves be whom the laws are designed against . and besides , do you think , that men ought not to make as publick a profession of their religion as with security they can ; and to let the power understand , how much it would be for their safety and interest to come over to the strongest side ? and is it not far better for authority to depend upon religion , than religion upon authority ? where have you lived all this while , that are yet to learn in so necessary a point of casuistical divinity ? as for mr. jenkin himself , when you said , that he made very bold with the reputation of others , and took as great a liberty to revile , as to commend ; and did produce him against himself , on jude , pag. 184. viz. that it is seducers policy to asperse the ministers , to cause a dislike of their ministry : and again , pag. 394. that the great endeavour of seducers is , to be magnified , or rather omnified , to have all others debased and nullified : i must confess that i have nothing to say : and that what you pointed me to in the same book , pag. 521. ●ake away this sinful censuring from many professors , and there will nothing remain to shew them religious ; whereas a just man is severe onely to himself , holds still true . it is a great fault in them , and what , if he hath miscarried in , as i hope he hath repented of , so by his silence upon that gentle reproof given him in the vindication of the conforming clergie , doth seem to own . i must acknowledge , that my own temper , as well as my religion , hath so much endeared me to that most excellent description of charity , 1 cor. 13. charity envieth not ; charity vaunteth not it self , is not puffed up , doth not behave it self unseemly , &c. beareth all things , believeth all things , hopeth all things , &c. that were all other things in the church of england as agreeable to me , as the temper of it , it would mightily reconcile me to it . we find no martins , no centuries , no gangraena's , no glocester-coblers , no stories or uncertain reports , picked up , and maliciously improved , by which the reputations of their adversaries are invaded , and exposed to the world ; notwithstanding the provocations they have received , and the abundant matter that hath been formerly and of late afforded for such an history . and there is nothing hath made me more out of love with my old friend mr. j. than a certain proneness that he hath discovered , to make invectives against others , and to attend in the mean time so little to himself , as to give occasion to others ( if they would take it ) to make them against him . but i hope , how little soever he respected what in another case he once said , in his sermon of the saints worth , pag. 11. viz. if a man takes the picture of another , he will not take it of his back-side , leg , or hand , or the like ; but of his face , his beautifullest part : yet that you and others will observe it , that the world be no more troubled with such narratives as can serve to no good end , but will effectually promote a bad ; which is to expose religion , and make it mean and contemptible . for my part , i could heartily wish , that all differences about little things were laid aside ; it being ( as he observes , pag. 252. on jude ) very unsuitable , that a greater fire should be employed in roasting of an egg , than an ox ; and to be more contentious for bubbles , than blessedness . as for greater differences , i could as heartily wish they were composed , that the love of god did more encrease , and that would be the encrease of vnity . for what he saith , vol. 2. on jude , pag. 630. is very true ; the preserving of our love to god is an excellent preservative against sectaries and false teachers . he who loves god , will fear to break the vnity and peace of the church . i cannot conclude better . as for the great case , i refer you to the sermon it self , by which , methinks , i could stand and fall ; as being confident , that either that will justifie mr. jenkin , or that he will be able to justifie that ; and so shall be impatient , till you give your opinion of it to , sir , your servant , h. n. the sermon . jude , ver . 19. these be they who separate themselves , sensual , having not the spirit . in the 17 verse jude produceth the testimony of the apostles of jesus christ , in confirmation of what he had before said : in which testimony i note five particulars . 1. to whom it is commended ; to his beloved . 2. how it was to be improved ; by remembring it . 3. from whom it proceeded ; the apostles of our lord jesus . 4. wherein it consisted ; in a prediction , that there should be mockers , walking after their ungodly lusts . 5. to whom it is opposed , viz. to these seducers : these are they who separate themselves . in which words the apostle shews , that these who separate themselves from the church , were scorners ; and that these who were sensual and void of the spirit , did follow their ungodly lusts . or , in the words jude expresseth , 1. the sin of these seducers , in separating themselves . 2. the cause thereof , which was , 1. their being sensual : and , 2. their not having the spirit . for the first , their separation ; two things are here to be opened . 1. what the apostle here intends by separating themselves . 2. wherein the sinfulness of it consists . 1. for the first : the original word may signifie the unbounding of a thing , and the removing of a thing from those bounds and limits wherein it was set and placed , &c. or it imports , the parting and separating of one thing from another , by bounds and limits put between them ; and the putting of bounds and limits , for distinction and separation , between several things : it being ( thus ) a resemblance taken from fields or countries , which are distinguished and parted from each other by certain boundaries and land-marks set up to that end : and thus it 's commonly taken by interpreters in this place , wherein these seducers may be said to separate themselves , divide or bound themselves from others , either first , doctrinally ; or , secondly , practically . 1. doctrinally , by false and heretical doctrines , whereby they divided themselves from the truth and faithful , who were guided by the truth of scripture , and walked according to the rule of the word , &c. 2. practically ; they might separate themselves as by bounds and limits , 1. by prophaneness , and living in a different way from the saints ; namely , in all loosness and uncleanness . 2. by schismaticalness , and making of separation from , and divisions in the church : because they proudly despised the doctrines or persons of the christians , as contemptible and unworthy ; or because they would not endure the holy severity of the churches discipline , they ( saith calvin ) departed from it . they might make rents and divisions in the church , by schismatical withdrawing themselves from fellowship and communion with it . their heresies were perverse and damnable opinions , their schism was a perverse separation from church-communion : the former was in doctrinals , the latter in practicals . the former was opposite to faith , this latter to charity . by faith all the members are united to the head ; by charity , one to another : and as the breaking of the former is heresie , so their breaking of the latter was schism . and this schism stands in the dissolving the spiritual band of love and union among christians , and appears in the withdrawing from the performance of those duties which are both the signs of , and helps to christian vnity ; as prayer , hearing , receiving of sacraments , &c. for , because the dissolving of christian vnion chiefly appears in the undue separation from church-communion , therefore this rending is rightly called schism . it is usually said to be twofold , negative , and positive . 1. negative is when there is onely simplex secessio , when there is onely a bare secession , a peaceable and quiet withdrawing from communion with a church , without making any head against that church from which the departure is . 2. positive is when persons so withdrawing do so consociate and draw themselves into a distinct and opposite body , setting up a church against a church , or , as divines express it , from augustine , an altar against an altar : and this it is which in a peculiar manner , and by way of eminency , is called by the name of schism , and becomes sinful either in respect , first , of the groundlesness , or , secondly , the manner thereof . 1. the groundlesness ; when there is no casting of persons out of the church by an unjust censure of excommunication , no departure by unsufferable persecution , no heresie nor idolatry in the church maintained , no necessity ( if communion be held with a church ) of communicating in its sins and corruptions . 2. the manner of separation makes it unlawful ; when 't is made without due endeavour and waiting for reformation of the church from which the departure is : and such a rash departure is against charity , which suffers both much and long , all tolerable things : it is not presently distasted , when the justest occasion is given ; it first useth all possible means of remedy . the chyrurgeon reserves dismembring , as the last remedy . it looks upon a sudden breaking off from communion with a church ( which is a dismembring ) not as chyrurgery , but butchery ; not as medicinal , but cruel . 2. the sinfulness of this schismatical separation appears several ways . i shall not spend time to compare it with heresie , though some have said , that schism is the greater sin of the two . august . cont . donat. lib. 2. cap. 6. tells the donatists , that schism was a greater sin than that of the traditores , who in time of persecution , through fear , delivered up their bibles to the persecutors to be burnt . ( a sin at which the donatists took so much offence , that it was the ground of their separation . ) but to pass by these things : by these three considerations especially the sinfulness of schism shews it self . in respect of 1. christ . 2. the parties separating . 3. those from whom they separate . 1. in respect of christ , it is , 1. an horrible indignity offered to his body , it dividing christ ( as the apostle speaks , 1 cor. 1. 15. ) and makes him to appear the head of two bodies . how monstrous and dishonourable is the very conceit hereof ! 2. it 's rebellion against his command , his great command of love. the grace of love is by some called the queen of graces ; and it 's greater than faith in respect of its object , not god onely , but man ; its duration , which is eternal ; its manner of working , not in a way of receiving christ ( as faith ) but of giving out the soul to him : and the command of love is the greatest command , in respect of its comprehensiveness , it taking in all the commandments , the end of them all being love , and it being the fulfilling of them all . 3. it 's opposite to one great end of christ's greatest undertaking ( his death ) , which was , that all his saints should be one . 4. it tends to frustrate his prayer for unity among saints , john 17. and endeavours that christ may not be heard by his father . 5. it opposeth his example : by this shall all men ( saith he ) know that ye are my disciples , if ye love one another . love is the livery and cognisance which christ gives to every christian . if there be no fellowship among christians , there 's no following of christ. let this mind be in you , that was in christ jesus , phil. 2. 5. 6. it 's injurious to his service and worship . how can men pray , if in wrath and division ? how can christians fight with heaven and prevail , when they are in so many divided troops ? what worthiness can be in those communicants , who celebrate a feast of love , with hearts full of rancour and malice ? 2. in respect of the parties separating : for , 1. it causeth a decay of all grace . by divisions among our selves , we endeavour to divide our selves from him , in and from whom is all our fulness . all wickedness follows contention . upon the stock of schism commonly heresie is grafted . there is no schism ( saith jerome ) but ordinarily it inventeth and produceth some heresie , that so the separation may seem the more justifiable . the novatians and donatists from schism fell to heresies . our times sadly comment upon this truth , they equally arising to both . the farther lines are distanced one from another , the greater is their distance from the center : and the more divided christians are among themselves , the more they divide themselves from christ. branches divided from the tree , receive no sap from the root . the soul gives life to members which are joyned together , not pluck'd asunder . 2. schism is the greatest disgrace to the schismaticks . a schismatick is a name much disowned , because very dishonourable : all posterity loads the name of sinful separatists with disgrace and abhorrency . he spoke truly , who said , the sin and misery of schism cannot be blotted out with the blood of martyrdom . he cannot honourably give his life for christ , who makes divisions in his church , for which christ gave his life . 3. in respect of the church from whom this separation is made . for , 1. it 's injurious to the honour of the church , whose greatest glory is vnion . how can a body be rent and torn , without the impairing of its beauty ? besides , how disgraceful an imputation is cast upon any church , when we profess it unworthy for any to abide in it ; that christ will not , and therefore that we cannot have communion with it ? 2. it 's injurious to the peace and quietness of the church . schismaticks more oppose the peace of the church , than do heathens . if the natural body be divided and torn , pain and smart must needs follow . the tearing and rending of the mystical body goes to the heart of all sensible members . they often cause the feverish distempers of hatred , wrath , seditions , envyings , murders . schism in the church , puts the members out of joynt ; and disjoynted bones are painful : all my bones ( saith david ) are out of joynt . church-divisions cause sad thoughts of heart . true members are sensible of these schisms , though artificial ones feel nothing . none rejoyce but our enemies . oh impiety , to make satan musick , and to make mourning for the saints ! 3. it 's opposite to the edification of the church . division of tongues hindred the building of babel ; and doubtless division in hearts , tongues , hands , heads , must needs hinder the building of jerusalem . while parties are contending , churches and commonwealths suffer . in troublous times the walls and temple of jerusalem went but slowly on . though jesus christ the head , be the onely fountain of spiritual life ; yet the usual way of christs strengthning it , and perfecting thereof , is the fellowship of the body , that by what every joynt supplies , the whole may be encreased . when church-members are put out of joynt , they are made unserviceable , and unfit to perform their several offices : they who were wont to joyn in prayer , sacraments , fasting , and were ready to all mutual offices of love , are now fallen off from all . 4. it 's opposite to the future estate of the church in glory . in heaven the faithful shall be of one mind : we shall all meet ( saith the apostle ) in the unity of the faith , ephes . 4. 13. when we are come to our manly age : wrangling is the work of our childhood . luther and calvin are of one mind in heaven , though their disciples wrangle here on earth . observations . obs . 1. naturally men love to be boundless ; they will not be kept within any spiritual compass . obs . 2. our separation from rome cannot be charged with schism . this will evidently appear , if we consider either the ground , or the manner of our separation . 1. for the ground and cause thereof : our separation from rome was not for some slight and tolerable errours , but damnable heresies , and gross idolatries : the heresies fundamental , and idolatries such , as those who hold communion with her , cannot but partake of : in respect of both which , the church of rome was first apostatized , before ever we separated : nor was there any separation from it , as it had any thing of christ , or as it was christian ; but as it was roman and popish , &c. 2. for the second , the manner of our separation ; it was not uncharitable , rash , heady , and unadvised ; nor before all means were used for the cure and reformation of the romanists , by the discovery of their errours , that possibly could be thought of : notwithstanding all which ( though some have been enforced to an acknowledgement of them ) they still obstinately persist in them . our famous , godly , and learned reformers would have healed babylon , but she is not healed : many skilful physicians have had her in hand , but ( like the woman in the gospel ) she grew so much the worse . by prayer , preaching , writing , yea by sealing their doctrine with their bloods , have sundry eminent instruments of christ endeavoured to reclaim the popish from their errours ; but in stead of being reclaimed , they anathematized them with the dreadfulest curses , excommunicated , yea , murdered and destroyed multitudes of those who endeavoured their reducement , not permitting any to trade , buy or sell , to have either religious or civil communion with them , except they received the beasts mark in their hands and foreheads . all which considered , we might safely forsake her ; nay , could not safely do otherwise . since , in stead of our healing of babylon , we could not be preserved from her destroying of us , we did deservedly depart from her , and every one go into his own country : and unless we had done so , we could not have obeyed the clear precept of the word , apoc. 18. come out of her my people , &c. timothy is commanded to withdraw himself from perverse and unsound teachers , 1 tim. 6. 3 , 5. though paul went into the synagogue , disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of god ; yet when divers were hardened , and believed not , but spake evil of that way , he departed from them , and separated the disciples , acts 19. 9. and expresly is communion with idolaters forbidden , 2 cor. 6. 14 , 17. what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness ? what communion hath light with darkness ? what concord hath christ with belial ? what agreement hath the temple of god with idols ? come out from among them , and be ye separate . and , hos . 4. 15. though thou israel play the harlot , yet let not judah offend ; and come ye not unto gilgal , neither go ye up to bethaven . though in name that place was bethel , the house of god ; yet because jeroboam's calf was set up there , it was indeed bethaven , the house of vanity . if rome be a bethaven , for idolatry , and corrupting of gods worship , our departure from it may be safely acknowledged and justified . in vain , therefore , do the romanists , stapleton , sanders , &c. brand our separation from them with the odious name of donatism , and schism ; it being evident out of augustine , that the donatists never objected any thing against , nor could blame any thing in the church ( from which they separated ) either for faith or worship : whereas we have unanswerably proved the pseudo-catholick roman church to be notoriously guilty both of heresie and idolatry ; and our adversaries themselves grant , in whatever church either of these depravations are found , communion with it is to be broken off . i shall conclude this discourse with that passage out of musculus , concerning schism . there is ( saith he ) a double schism ; the one bad , the other good : the bad is that whereby a good vnion , the good whereby a bad vnion is broken asunder . if ours be a schism , it is of the latter sort . obs . 3. the voluntary and unnecessary dividing and separation from a true church , is schismatical . when we put bounds and partitions between it and our selves , we sin ( say some ) as did these seducers here taxed by jude . if the church be not heretical , or idolatrous , or do not by excommunication , persecution , &c. thrust us out of its communion ; if it be such as christ the head hath communion with , we the members ought not by separation to rend and divide the body . to separate from congregations , where the word of truth and gospel of salvation are held forth in an ordinary way , as the proclamations of princes are held forth upon pillars to which they are affixed ; where the light of the truth is set up as upon a candlestick , to guide passengers to heaven : to separate from them to whom belong the covenants , and where the sacraments , the seals of the covenant , are for substance rightly dispensed ; where christ walketh in the midst of his golden candlesticks , and discovers his presence in his ordinances , whereby they are made effectual to the conversion and edification of souls , in an ordinary way ; where the members are saints , by a professed subjection to christ and his gospel , and haply have promised this explicitly and openly ; where there are sundry who in the judgment of charity may be conceived to have the work of grace really wrought in their hearts , by walking in some measure answerable to their profession : i say , to separate from these , as those with whom church-communion is not to be held and maintained , is unwarrantable , and schismatical . pretences for separation ( i am not ignorant ) are alledged : frequently , and most plausibly , that of mixt communion , and of admitting into church-fellowship the vile with the precious , and those who are chaff , and therefore ought not to lodge with the wheat . answ . 1. not to insist upon what some have urged , viz. that this hath been the stone at which most schismaticks have stumbled , and the pretence which they have of old alledged , as having ever had a spiritum excommunicatorium , a spirit rather putting them upon dividing from those who , they say , are unholy , than putting them upon any godly endeavours of making themselves holy ; as is evident in the examples of the audaeans , novatians , donatists , anabaptists , brownists , &c. 2. let them consider , whether the want of the exact purging and reforming of these abuses , proceed not rather from some unhappy obstructions and political restrictions ( whether or no caused by those who make this objection , god knows ) in the exercise of discipline ; than from the allowance or neglect of the church it self . nay , 3. let them consider , whether when they separate from sinful mixtures , the church be not at that very time purging out those sinful mixtures : and is that a time to make a separation from a church , by departing from it , when the servants of christ are making a separation in that church , by reforming it ? but , 4. let it be seriously weighed , that some sinful mixtures are not a sufficient cause of separation from a church . hath not god his church , even where corruption of manners hath crept into a church , if purity of doctrine be maintained ? and is separation from that church lawful , from which god doth not separate ? did the apostle , because of the sinful mixtures in the church of corinth , direct the faithful to separate ? must not he who will forbear communion with a church , till it be altogether freed from mixtures , tarry till the day of judgement ? till when , we have no promise , that christ will gather out of his church whatsoever doth offend . 5. let them consider , whether god hath made private christians stewards in his house , to determine whether those with whom they communicate are fit members of the church , or not ? or rather , whether it be not their duty , when they discover tares in the church , in stead of separating from it , to labour that they may be found good corn ; that so when god shall come to gather his corn into his garner , they may not be thrown out ? church-officers are ministerially betrusted with the ordering of the church , and for the opening and shutting of the doors of the churches communion , by the keys of doctrine and discipline : and herein if they shall either be hindred , or negligent , private christians shall not be intangled in the guilt of their sin , if they be humbled , and use all lawful means for remedy , though they do communicate . 6. let them search , whether there be any scripture-warrant to break off communion with any church , when there is no defect in the ordinances themselves , onely upon this ground , because some are admitted to them , who , because of their personal miscarriages , ought to be debarred ? the jews of old , though they separated when the worship if self was corrupted , 2 chron. 11. 14 , 16. yet not because wicked men were suffered to be in outward communion with them , jer. 7. 9 , 10. nor do the precepts or patterns of the christian churches , for casting out of offenders , give any liberty to separation , in case of failing to cast them out ; and though the suffering of scandalous persons be blamed , yet not the communicating with them . the command not to eat with a brother who is a fornicator , or covetous , &c. 1 cor. 5. 11. concerns not religious , but civil communion , by a voluntary , familiar , intimate conversation , either in being invited , or inviting ; as is clear by these two arguments . 1. that eating which is here forbidden with a brother , is allowed to be with an heathen : but it 's the civil eating which is onely allowed to be with an heathen : therefore , it 's the civil eating which is forbidden to be with a brother . 2. the eating here forbidden , is for the punishment of the nocent , not for a punishment to the innocent . now though such civil eating was to be forborn , yet it follows not at all , much less much more , that religious eating is forbidden . 1. because civil eating is arbitrary , and unnecessary ; not so religious , which is enjoyned , and a commanded duty . 2. there is danger of being infected by the wicked in civil , familiar , and arbitrary eatings ; not so in joyning with them in an holy and commanded service and ordinance . 3. civil eating is done out of love to the party inviting or invited ; but religious is done out of love to jesus christ , were it not for whom , we would neither eat at sacrament with wicked men , nor at all . to conclude this ; separation from churches , from which christ doth not separate , is schismatical . now it 's clear in the scripture , that christ owneth churches where faith is found for the substance , and their worship gospel-worship , though there be many defects and sinful mixtures among them . and what i have said concerning the schismaticalness of separation , because of the sinful mixtures of those who are wicked in practice , is as true concerning separation from them who are erroneous in judgment , if the errours of those from whom the separation is made , be not fundamental , and hinder communion with christ the head. and much more clear ( if clearer can be ) is the schismaticalness of those who separate from , and renounce all communion with those churches which are not of their own manner of constitution , and modell'd according to the platform of their own particular church-order . to refrain fellowship and communion with such churches who profess christ their lord , whose faith is sound , whose worship is gospel-worship , whose lives are holy , because they come not into that particular way of church-order which we have pitch'd upon , is a schismatical rending of the church of christ to pieces . of this the church of rome are most guilty , who do most plainly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and circumscribe and bound the church of christ within the limits and boundaries of the roman jurisdiction , even so , as that they cast off all churches in the world , yea and cut them off from all hópe of salvation , who subject not themselves to their way . herein likewise those separatists among our selves are heinously faulty , who censure and condemn all other churches , though their faith , worship , and conversation be never so scriptural , meerly because they are not gathered into church-order according to their own patterns . in scripture , churches are commended and dignified , according as their fundamental faith was sound , and their lives holy ; not according to the regularity of their first manner of gathering : and notwithstanding the exactest regularity of their first gathering , when churches have once apostatized from faith and manners , christ hath withdrawn communion from them . and this making of the first gathering of people into church-fellowship , to be the rule to direct us with whom we may hold communion , will make us refuse some churches upon whom are seen the scripture-characters of true churches , and joyn with others onely upon an humane testimony , because men onely tell us they were orderly gathered . obs . ult . it should be our care to shun separation . to this end , 1. labour to be progressive in the work of mortification . the less carnal we are , the less contention and division will be among us . are ye not carnal ? ( saith the apostle ) : and he proves it from their divisions . separation is usually , but very absurdly , accounted a sign of an high-grown christian . we wrangle because we are children , and are men in malice because children in holiness ; wars among our selves proceed from the lusts that war in our members , james 4. 1. 2. admire no mans person . the excessive regarding of some , makes us despise others in respect of them . when one man seems a gyant , another will seem a dwarf in comparison of him . this caused the corinthian schism . take heed of man-worship , as well as image-worship : let not idolatry be changed , but abolish'd . of this largely before , upon having mens persons in admiration . 3. labour for experimental benefit by the ordinances . men separate to those churches which they account better , because they never found those where they were before ( to them ) good . call not ministers good ( as the young man in the gospel did christ ) complementally onely ; for if so , you will soon call them bad . find the setting up of christ in your hearts by the ministry , and then you will not dare to account it antichristian . if , with jacob , we could say of our bethels , god is here , we would set up pillars , nay be such , for our constancy in abiding in them . 4. neither give nor receive scandals . give them not , to occasion others to separate ; nor receive them , to occasion thy own separation : watch exactly ; construe doubtful matters charitably . look not upon blemishes with multiplying-glasses , or old mens spectacles : hide them , though not imitate them : sport not your selves with others nakedness . turn separation from , into lamentation for the scandalous . 5. be not much taken with novelties . new-lights have set this church on fire : for the most part they are taken out of the dark-lanthorns of old hereticks . they are false and fools-fires , to lead men into the precipice of separation . love truth in an old dress ; let not antiquity be a prejudice against , nor novelty an inducement to the entertainment of truth . 6. give not way to lesser differences . a little division will soon rise up to greater : small wedges make way for bigger . our hearts are like to tinder ; a little spark will enflame them . be jealous of your hearts when contentions begin , stifle them in the cradle . paul and barnabas separated about a small matter , the taking of an associate . 7. beware of pride , the mother of contention and separation . love not the preheminence . rather be fit for , than desirous of rule . despise not the meanest ; say not , i have no need of thee . all schisms and heresies are mostly grafted upon the stock of pride . the first rent that was ever made in god's family , was by the pride of angels , ver . 14. and that pride was nothing else but the desire of independency . 8. avoid self-seeking . he who seeks his own things and profit , will not mind the good and peace of the church . oh take heed lest thy secular interest draw thee to a new communion , and thou colour over thy departure with religion and conscience . thus have we spoken of the first , viz. what these seducers did , viz. separate themselves . 2. the cause of their separation , or what they were , in these words , sensual , not having the spirit . [ this i will onely give the breviate of ( still keeping to his own words ) leaving it to his commentary on jude , since printed . ] by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the apostle seems to me to make their bruitish sensuality and propensions to be the cause of their separation : as if he had said , they will not live under the strict discipline , where they must be curb'd and restrain'd from following their lusts ; no , these sensuallists will be alone by themselves , in companies , where they may have their fill of sensual pleasures , and where they may gratifie their genius to the utmost . the apostle seems to add this their sensuality , and want of the spirit , to their separating themselves , not onely to shew , that sensuality was the cause of their separation , and the want of the spirit the cause of both ; but as if he intended directly to thwart and cross them in their pretences of having an high and extrordinary measure of spiritualness above others , who , as these seducers might pretend , were in so low a form of christianity , and had so little spiritualness , that they were not worthy to keep them company : whereas jude tells these christians , that these seducers were so far from being more spiritual than others , that they were meer sensuallists , and had nothing in them of the spirit at all , &c. observations . obs . 1. commonly sensuality lies at the bottom of sinful separation , and making of sects . separate themselves , sensual , &c. obs . 2. it 's possible for those who are sensual , and without the spirit , to boast of spiritualness . of these before . obs . 3. sanctity and sensuality cannot agree together . obs . 4. they who want the spirit , are easily brought over to sensuality . to his worthy friend h. n. sir , i heartily thank you for putting me in mind of our late discourse , and for giving me so fair an opportunity to pursue it , by the sermon that you sent me ; which i greedily read , and had no sooner run over , but i bless'd my self to find , that you should put the cause upon this issue , and to appeal to that for the justification of the present separation . i look'd again , and thought that you might be mistaken , and had sent me a sermon against mr. jenkin , rather than one for him . it was a discourse that i do acknowledge my self not to be altogether a stranger to , and what i then retained some remembrance of ; but yet wholly to undeceive my self , i sent for the book which you say you compared it with , and , to my no small satisfaction , found them ( as to what concerns the matter of our dispute ) honestly to agree ; and that you may as well bring the one to vouch for the credit of the other , as he himself may ( if there were occasion ) mr. brinsley's arraignment of schism ( from whence he hath borrowed the substance of this sermon ) in the justification of what he hath said here upon that subject . and now , sir , i am glad that i have brought you thus far ; for i desire no better advantage than what this sermon will afford me , and shall decline the order that we observed in our discourse , on purpose to comply with it . you may remember , that i then undertook to shew , 1. that the old nonconformists did themselves hold lay-communion with the church of england , and accounted those that did not , guilty of schism , as by their writings yet extant doth appear . 2. that the present nonconformists , who are presbyterians , did plead their practice , and use their arguments , against the independents , and others , that did in the late times separate from themselves . 3. that lay-communion with the church of england , is the same in our times , that it was in the times of the old nonconformists ; and that the church of england hath as much to say for it self now , as it had then . 4. that therefore the new separation doth not in reality differ from the old , and is truly schism , if either they , or the old nonconformists spoke true . now this i look upon as a very covenient method to bring the case to a decision ; but because i will shew how willing i am to meet you , and how confident i am in the goodness of my cause , i shall take that course which will more readily lead me to make use of the sermon , though in the pursuing of that , i shall also say what will serve for the proof of the propositions before laid down . in the first place , it will be necessary to shew what schism is . now , that , as may be collected from mr. jenkin here , is a perverse or undue separation from church-communion , pag. 21 , 22. or , a voluntary and unnecessary dividing and separation from a true church , pag. 31. and upon this definition i shall proceed , and shew , 1. that the church of england is a true church . 2. that there is a separation from it . 3. that this separation is voluntary and unnecessary . 4. that therefore the present separation is schismatical . 1. that the church of england is a true church . but here we are put to it , to tell what the church of england is , by the author of sacrilegious desertion , pag. 35. we are told ( saith he ) of schism from the church of england , when i would give all the money in my purse , to make me understand what the church of england is . i might here , without any more ado , refer him to mr. baxter for resolution , of whom , mr. hickman saith , in his bonasus vapulans , printed the same year , pag. 138. that he has communion with the church of england in all ordinances ; who cannot but certainly know what that church is , or else how can he hold communion with it ? but because there is so great a profit like to attend it , and in compassion to him that hath there raised so much dust that he cannot see his own way , i shall for once tell him what it is by wise men thought to be , viz. that company of persons , in this nation , that doth joyn together in the ordinances of god , according to the laws established amongst us for ecclesiastical matters . it is the joyning together in the ordinances of god , which makes a church a true church , as mr. brinsley saith , in his arraignment of schism , pag. 31. and it 's the joyning together in them , according to the laws established amongst us , that makes such a church to be the church of england . i must profess , sir , to you , that i can hardly forbear to expose that book of sacrilegious desertion , that as much abounds with ill-nature , self-conceit , confusion , and self-contradiction , as any that i have met with of that kind ; but because the author hath been in many things of good use to the church of god , i shall not treat him with that rigour such a book deserves ; and shall therefore proceed to shew , that this church is a true church . he indeed , pag. 43. of that book , when it had been objected against the present separation , that their members are taken out of true churches , replies , how many bishops have written , that the church of rome is a true church , &c. and must no churches therefore be gathered out of them ? [ her , it should be . ] thereby disingenuously insinuating , that the church of england is no otherwise a true church than that of rome , and may as safely be separated from . now how the church of rome is said to be a true church , mr. brinsley will inform us , pag. 26. of his arraignment of schism : there is a twofold trueness ; natural , the one ; moral , the other : in the former sense , a cheater , a thief may be said to be a true man , and a whore a true woman , and ( till she be divorced ) a true wife ; yea , and the devil himself , though the father of lies , yet a true spirit . and in this sense we shall not need to grutch the church of rome the name of a true church ; if not so , why do we call her a church ? a church she is , in regard of the outward profession of christianity ; but yet a false church : true in existence , but false in belief , &c. not so a true church , but that she is also a false church , an heretical , apostatical , antichristian synagogue . but whether the author of sacrilegious desertion hath the same thoughts of the church of england , let pag. 76. shew , where he saith , as i constantly joyn in my parish-church in liturgie and sacraments , so i hope to do while i live ( if i live under as honest a minister ) at due times . and he would by all means have their assemblies accounted onely as chappel-meetings , pag. 15. with respect to the publick . now god forbid that all this should be , and that in the mean time he should think , that the church of england is no more a true church than the church of rome , and not more to be held communion with . but the contrary is evident from him , and so his abovesaid insinuation the more blame-worthy . but however , let him think as he pleaseth , it is very obvious , that the constant opinion of the old nonconformists was , that the church of england was a true church , and what , as such , they thought that they were oblig'd to hold communion with . so mr. baxter , in his preface to the cure of church-divisions , saith of them ; the old nonconformists , who wrote so much against separation , were neither blind , nor temporizers . they saw the danger on that side . even brightman on the revelation , that writeth against the prelacy and ceremonies , severely reprehendeth the separatists . read but the writings of mr. j. paget , mr. j. ball , mr. hildersham , mr. bradshaw , mr. bains , mr. rathband , and many such others , against the separatists of those times , and you may read , that our light is not greater , but less than theirs , &c. so mr. crofton , in his reformation not separation , ( though several of them he evidently wrongs , that were far from any disaffection to the order and discipline of the church , as ridley , &c. ) pag. 43. tindal , hooper , ridley , latimer , farrar , whitaker , cartwright , bains , sibbs , preston , rogers , geree , j. ball , langly , hind , nicols , &c. groaning under retained corruptions , &c. yet lived to their last breath in constant communion with the church . ▪ and this they did , upon the supposition of this truth . nay , so far were they persuaded of this , that they did prefer it to most churches in the world. so the letters betwixt the ministers of old and new-england , published by mr. ash and mr. rathband , 1643. if we deny communion with such a church as ours , there hath been no church this thousand years with which a christian might lawfully joyn . when the wars began , there were those indeed that talked otherwise , and then they would persuade the people , that there was no difference betwixt that and rome ; as mr. marshal , in his sermon upon the vnion of the two houses , jan. 18. 1647. all christendom , except malignants in england , do now see , that the question in england is , whether christ or antichrist shall be lord and king ? then those that were suspended before the long-parliament time , were the witnesses that were slain , and the prelacy was an antichristian power ; and the taking away of that , and the ceremonies , was the tenth part of the city falling , as mr. woodcock did expound it , in his sermons of the two witnesses , 1643. pag. 83 , & 86. then they were the amorites , and there was the cup of abomination amongst them , as you may find it in a book called the principal acts of the general assembly convened at edinburgh , may 29. 1644. pag. 19. but when the tide began to turn , and presbytery was opposed , and in great danger of being run down by independency , they changed their tune , and began to plead for the truth of it , and their propriety in it . thus we find ordination according to the church of england maintained by the london-ministers , in their vindication , pag. 143. we do not deny , but that the way of ministers entring into the ministry by the bishops , had many defects in it : — but we add , that notwithstanding all the accidental corruptions , yet it is not substantially and essentially corrupted : by dr. seaman , in his answer to the diatribe ; by mr. brinsley of schism , page 31. by mr. firmin , in his separation examined , page 23. then we are told , that preaching and prayer were kept pure in the episcopal days , by mr. firmin , ibid. pag. 29. and to shew you how reverendly they spoke of this church , i will onely quote it from one that must be thought to speak out of no affection , and that is j. goodwin , in his sion college visited , pag. 26. doubtless the real and true ministers of the province of london , having such abundant opportunity of converse with travellers from all parts , cannot but be full of the truth of this information , that there was more of the truth and power of religion in england , under the late prelatical government , than in all the reformed churches besides . but you will say , all this may be granted , and yet nothing said ; for the case is altered , the church of england not being now what it was then . this , i acknowledge , the author of sacrilegious desertion , pag. 43. doth suggest ; the love of peace , and the fear of frightning any further from parish-communion than i desire , do oblige me to forbear so much as to describe or name the additional conformity , and that sin which nonconformists fear and fly from , which maketh it harder to us that desire it , to draw many good people to communion with conformists , than it was of old . but this additional conformity that the people are concerned in , i am yet to understand ; and i fear he had another reason to forbear the description of it , viz. because he could not . however , for once suppose this ; yet he grants , that it 's onely harder ; but that doth not make it unlawful : for then what shall we say to mr. corbet , that in his discourse of the religion of england , anno 1667. pag. 33. doth declare , that the presbyterians generally hold the church of england to be a true church , though defective in its order and discipline , and frequent the worship of god in the publick assemblies ? ( i believe he speaks of those that he converses with , for here it is generally otherwise as to the point of practice . ) what shall we say to mr. hickman , that in his bonasus vapulans , page 133. saith of himself , i profess , where-ever i come , i make it my business to reconcile people to the publick assemblies ; my conscience would fly in my face , if i should do otherwise ? what shall be said to that of mr. baxter , in his cure of church-divisions , pag. 263 , 264 , 265. where he saith , thousands of well-meaning people live as if england were almost all the world , and do boldly separate from their neighbours here ; which they durst not do , if they soberly considered , that almost all the christian world are worse than they ? and that the present state of this church is far better than almost any in the world , he there doth largely prove . so far as the profession of these persons doth hold ( who both deserve , and i am confident have your reverence ) we are safe . but still suppose the worst , i will be bold to say , and i question not to prove , that our church is more a church , than what theirs was , when they so briskly assaulted the independents , and charged them with no less than schism , for their separtion from it . for , if you consider , you will find , that their constitution was not setled , nor the church in any order , when this controversie began , and was carried on amongst them . how it was in 1642. sir edward dering , in his speeches then made and printed , will inform us , pag. 47. the church of england ( not long since the glory of the reformed religion ) is miserably torn and distracted : you can hardly now say , which is the church of england . a little above , in the same page , he saith thus : mr. speaker , there is a certain new-born , unseen , ignorant , dangerous , desperate way of independency : are we , sir , for this independent way ? nay , ( sir ) are we for the elder ▪ brother of it , the presbyterial form ? i have not yet heard any one gentleman within these walls stand up and assert his thoughts here , for either of these ways : and yet ( sir ) we are made the patrons and protectors of these so different , so repugnant innovations , &c. how it was in 1645. you may guess , when the sovereign argument they had was , that they had hopes of a settlement . so mr. calamy , in a fast-sermon preached that year , did call upon his people to be ashamed and confounded , as for divers other things , so , amongst the rest , for this , that whilst the parliament is sitting , and labouring to settle things , and while the assembly of ministers are studying to settle religion , and labouring to heal our breaches , that any should be separating from us : as we may learn out of the door of truth opened , pag. 5. so again , pag. 6. they engage themselves into separated congregations , and do not wait and tarry to see what reformation the parliament will make . so it is confessed by the london-ministers , in their letter to the assembly , pag. 2. jan. 1. 1645. that the reformation of religion is not yet setled among us according to the covenant ; and urge it to shew , that the desires and endeavours of the independents for a toleration at that time , were very unreasonable . how it was in 1646. you may see in mr. brinsley's arraignment , pag. 48 , 49. it is alledged , that in this kingdom at present there is no way laid forth for the churches to walk in : and then , why may they not take liberty to set up their way , as well as others theirs ? answ . suppose the church hath not her way laid out , yet it will not be denied , but that she hath been all this while seeking it out , &c. neither can it be truly said , that the church is so wholly destitute of a way to walk in , whether for worship , or government ; the former of which is ( and for some good time hath been ) fully agreed upon : the latter , however not fully compleated , yet is it for substance both determined and held forth . how it was 1656. dr. drake , in his bar to free admission , doth acknowledge , pag. 132. how many congregations have for ten or twelve years together assembled constantly at the word and prayer , without the lords supper , yea some of them haply without baptism : a great fault , i grant ; but , i hope , not so great as to unchurch them . to favour whom , he is drove to affirm , that i dare not say , the sacraments are essential notes of the church visible . this was that which lay hard upon them , and what the independents took great advantage of , viz. that they were some years without any setled constitution , and at last so defective in such a considerable part as government and discipline . so it was urged by the five dissenting brethren , in their apologetical narration , 1643. pag , 23. when the others charged them with schism , they thus answer : schism , which yet must either relate to a differing from the former ecclesiastical government of this church established ; and then , who is not involved in it , as well as we ? or , to the constitution and government that is yet to come ; and until that be agreed on , established , and declared , and actually exist , there can be no guilt or imputation of schism from it . this was what the presbyterians themselves lamented ; as the norwich-ministers , in their hue and cry after vox populi , anno 1646. pag. 31. we could wish some penal law were against the independents , anabaptists , and some government setled . and when it is objected there , the parliament hath given full power and authority for ordination , &c. they answer , for what , sir ? to ordain pastors for each congregation ? or to chuse elders ? in what ordinance is this power given to any but the city of london ? the want of this , was what their adversaries did continually object ; and this was what they used all their skill to refute , as mr. brinsley , pag. 31. object . we want an ordinance , viz. discipline . so in knutton's seven questions about separation , 1645. and which mr. firmin is so pestered with , that he answers it after this sort , in his separation examined , pag. 28 , 29. but this objection hath no place in these churches ; for , prayer , preaching , administration of the sacraments , yea , discipline they had in the episcopal days , &c. as if that were sufficient to vindicate what they wanted in theirs . the case then was plainly thus : that they were some years without any setled constitution ; that though the province of london was by an ordinance , 1645. divided into twelve classical elderships , yet after all the ordinances about it , the very form of government was not ordered to be published till 29 aug. 1648. nay , nor the articles of religion agreed to be printed till about a month before : and yet notwithstanding , then the cry was , independency a great schism , and worse than popery , ( as adam steuart in his zerubbabel to sanballat , p. 53. ) and separation from them , schismatical . now , if it must be so , when no body knew what the church was , nor they themselves knew what foundation to lay it upon ( if j. goodwin , in his sion college visited , pag. 10. or j. l. in his plain truth , pag. 6. are to be believed , and as mr. brinsley , pag. 49. doth not deny ) ; then what must it not be , when it is from a church that is established , and whose articles , constitutions , and orders are , and have been time out of mind setled , as ours is ? if in 1647. there was a church , and a church of england , as the ministers sent by the parliament in that year to oxford did maintain , and as the form of church-government to be used in the church of england , printed by order of parliament , 1648. doth acknowledge ; then certainly such a thing there is now to be found . to conclude this : if the old nonconformists thought the church of england to be a true church , and what they did think themselves obliged to hold communion with ; if the present nonconformists , when time was , did declare as much ; if the church of england doth not now differ from what it was when they so thought of it ; and that it is much more a church , than what that was that the independents were accounted by them schismaticks for withdrawing from : then i hope their separation from us , will be allowed to be unwarrantable . and now i know not what can be said , unless , with the author of sacrilegious desertion , pag. 33. it be said , that this is onely local distinction , not separation . but that is the second thing i shall proceed to shew . 2. there is a separation from the church of england . if there was no more to be said in this case , than what adam steuart , in his zerubbabel to sanballat , wrote against the independents , 1644. it would be sufficient ; viz. if ye be not separated from us , but entertain union and communion with us , what need ye more a toleration , rather than the rest of the members of our church ? the pains the nonconformists took to compass , and the joy which they expressed at obtaining a toleration , shews that they were not of its communion . but what credit can we give to such a declaration ? for alas , ( as mr. brinsley , pag. 28. saith in the same case ) what meaneth the lowing of the oxen , and the bleating of the sheep ? i mean , the confused noise of our lesser and greater divisions ? — divisions , not onely without separations , sects , and factions ; but divisions of an higher nature , amounting to no less than direct separation ; and that not barely to a negative , but to a positive separation , to the setting up of altars against altars , churches against churches . that it is so de facto , i think it will not , it cannot be denied . for , if mr. baxter , and some others , shall profess , that they meet not at the same hour with the publick , under any colour and pretence , in any religious exercise , than according to the liturgie ; and yet in the mean time use it not : the dividers will not see ( as the author of sacrilegious desertion saith , pag , 20. ) the different principles on which they go , while their practice seemeth to be the same . but if we should grant this , to those that are willing to hold communion with us ; yet these are very few , to what do wholly decline and deny it . mr. jenkin here saith , pag. 22. that separation appears in the withdrawing from the performance of those duties which are both the signs of , and helps to christian vnity , as prayer , hearing , receiving of sacraments , &c. and that schism is negative , when there is onely a simple secession , &c. without making head against that church from which the departure is ; or positive , when persons so withdrawing do so consociate and draw themselves into a distinct and opposite body , setting up a church against a church . now i dare appeal to all that know them , whether mr. jenkin , and the far greater part of his brethren , have been ever seen in our congregations ( unless at some times the more adventurous of them have thrust their heads in at the door ; when , if they heard all , as it is usually but very little of the sermon that they have patience to hear , mr. brinsley will tell them , that as for occasional hearing , it is agreed on all hands , it is not properly an act of church-communion , pag. 35. ) and i will appeal to your eyes , whether they do not constantly keep up their meetings in opposition to those of the church . but what need i go so far about , when this is not onely acknowledged , but defended ? see mr. wadsworth , in his separation yet no schism , epist . to the reader , where he puts the case of the nonconformists thus : there are some hundreds of true ministers of jesus christ , — and there are many thousands likewise of visible professors of christianity , do willingly hear and joyn with these ministers in the worship of god , and in a participation of sacraments : — these meet in distinct congregations , separate from the legallyestablished congregations in the land , with whom they will not , because they cannot hold communion . and now it is out , and what you see is plainly avowed : so that i have leave to pass to the next head. 3. that this separation is voluntary , and unnecessary . the sin of schism , will all say , is very great , and what cannot be blotted out with the blood of martyrdom , as mr. jenkin here saith , pag. 26. one spoke very well . but , as he observes from musculus , pag. 31. there is a double schism , the one bad , the other good ; the bad is that whereby a good vnion , the good whereby a bad vnion is broken asunder . and of what sort the present separation is , comes now to be tried , which i shall do , by making my observations from what this sermon will afford , and by shewing from thence , when a separation is justifiable , and when not . from all which , if it appears , that the reasons produced by them fall within the compass of the negative , but hold not as to the affirmative , it will appear , that their separation is voluntary , and unnecessary . now there are six cases , as may be collected from this sermon , in which separation is unwarrantable , and schismatical . 1. it is not to be allowed , when it is by reason of mixt-communion , and admitting into church-fellowship the vile with the precious . this he handles at large , from pag. 33. to pag. 37. and saith , that it hath no scripture-warrant . and this hath been their constant opinion . so mr. firmin , in his separation examined , pag. 40. corrupt members there were enough in the jewish church , and so in the christian churches soon after , and in the apostles times ; but you have no example of separating from them . so the provincial assembly of london , in their vindication of the presbyterial government , pag. 134. suppose there were some sinful mixtures at our sacraments , yet we conceive this is not a sufficient ground of a negative , much less of a positive separation . — this they give the reason of , because in what church soever there is purity of doctrine , there god hath his church , though overwhelmed with scandals . and therefore whosoever separates from such an assembly , separates from that place where god hath his church , which is rash and unwarrantable . mr. vines , in his treatise of the sacrament , hath a whole chapter , viz. cap. 20. to shew the unlawfulness of it , and saith , pag , 235. that to excommunicate our selves from gods ordinances ( if men of wicked life be not excommunicate ) for fear of pollution by them , is donatistical . so dr. manton , on jude , pag. 496. the scandals of professors are ground of mourning , but not of separation . and mr. baxter doth speak fully to it , in his cure of church-divisions , pag 81. if you mark all the texts of the gospel , you shall find , that all the separation which is commanded in such cases ( besides the separation from infidels and the idolatrous world ) is but one of these two forts : 1. that either the church cast out impenitent sinners by the power of the keys ; or , 2. that private men avoid all private familiarity with them . but that the private members should separate from the church , because such persons are not cast out of it , shew me one text to prove it if you can . the consideration of this , made the author of the book called nonconformists no schismaticks , to quit this argument , concluding , pag. 16. with good reason , that if one mans sin desileth another that communicates with him , who can assure himself of any scriptural communion on this side heaven ? all which i have produced ( and could indeed tire you with quotations of this kind ) on purpose to let you see how much the author of separation yet no schism , doth run counter to his own party , and withal , how little acquaintance with this argument will serve to shew the weakness and inconsistency of that tract . he puts the case thus , pag. 56. if ministers , or many of the members are much corrupted , or the members onely commonly so , but connived at , it is a sufficient ground for the sound to withdraw . and for this he gives two reasons : 1. lest under the pretence of peace , they should be guilty of the greatest uncharitableness , and that is the hardning and encouraging them in their abominable impieties . 2. because the sound ought , by the law of god and nature , to provide for their own safety , — for they cannot but be in apparent danger by communicating with such . now granting the case so to be , yet separation will not be granted lawful by themselves , upon the reasons which he there gives . i shall refer him for an answer to the first of the letters that passed betwixt the ministers of old and new england , published by mr. ash and mr. rathband , 1643. ( as thought by them at that time very seasonable ) . when those of new england had said , that by joyning with an insufficient and unworthy ministry , they did countenance them in their place and office , pag. 8. it is answered , pag. 11. the scripture teacheth evidently , not onely that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place and office ; but that they must and ought to joyn with them in the worship of god : and in separating from the ordinance , they shall sin against god. from whence you may observe , that the countenancing of such whom the word of truth doth condemn , as not approved ministers of god , ( as it 's there said ) is no reason to discharge us of our duty ; and if separation be not otherwise our duty , the fear of hardning others , by our communion with them , will never make it to be so . surely this might have been very well thought to be the effect of the same practice in the church of corinth , where there was ( as the provincial assembly of london observeth , in their vindication , pag. 134. ) such a profane mixture at their sacrament , as we believe few ( if any ) of our congregations can be charged withal : and yet the apostle doth not persuade the godly party to separate , much less to gather a church out of a church : which yet had been very necessary , if this author's reason had been of any force . and his second reason , viz. care of our own safety , will also have no place here , if mr. jenkin's authority will signifie any thing with him ; who speaking in this sermon , p. 36. of that text , 1 cor. 5. 11. of not eating with a brother , &c. shews very well , that it is to be understood of civil , and not religious eating , and gives this as one reason for it , viz. that there is danger of being infected by the wicked in civil , familiar , and arbitrary eatings ; not so in joyning with them in an holy and commanded service and ordinance . if we follow the apostles precept , of having no familiar and ordinary converse with fornicators , covetous , idolaters , drunkards , &c. we may be assured , that we shall be in no danger of infection by their company in religious offices and duties , where there is little or no converse , opportunity , and way for it . the case , i acknowledge , is sad , when such are to be found amongst christians , and that discipline is not exercised upon them : but i ought not to leave my place and duty , because such do joyn with me in it ; or to separate from the church of god , because such continue in its communion : for , this is to tear the church in pieces , and the doctrine that drives to it is very pernicious . take the character of it from the provincial assembly , in their vindication , pag. 124. that doctrine that crieth up purity , to the ruine of vnity , is contrary to the doctrine of the gospel . but truly , the case is not so bad with us , as it is represented . i know there are some that do object , as j. rogers did in 1653. the parish-churches are not rightly constituted , for there is in them ranting , revelling , — to whom i shall reply , as mr. crofton did then to him , in his bethshemesh clouded , pag. 103. o sharp sentence ! severe censure ! at one word pronounced on all parishes indefinitely : the position whence it flows had need be well proved , and the inference well backed . for , i must needs say , that what mr. firmin , in his separation examined , p. 42. once said of the presbyterial , is true of the episcopal , that there are many ministers that have as few wicked at that ordinance [ of the lords supper ] , as ever were in the church of corinth . i must confess , that i was pleased with the ingenuous acknowledgment of the author of the cry of a stone , in 1642. who saith , pag. 39. i freely acknowledge , that there are many in the parishes of england , which are of a very godly life and conversation , and some that go as far therein , as ever i saw any in my life : and if i should prefer any of the separated before them in conversation , i should speak against my own conscience : but in the church-state and order , i must prefer the other . and i question not , but that the state of the church is still as good , in that respect , as it was then ; and might have been better , had those kept in it that are run away from it , and that by their divisions in religion , make many to question whether there be any such thing in the world. certainly , were our endeavours rightly placed and united , there is scarcely any church in the world whose temper would promise more success , than that of ours : and if we would deal fairly ( as j. g. in his cretensis , pag. 5. once said ) in comparing them together , and not set the head of the one against the tail of the other , but measure head with head , and tail with tail ; i will not say of our church , as he did of independency , that if that hath its tens , presbytery hath its thousands of the sons of belial in its retinue : but i will say , that even the separated churches , as they now stand , are not without them , as well as we : and if they would as well look out the extortioner , and unjust , and covetous , and railer , ( not to speak of others ) amongst themselves , as they do pick out the fornicator and drunkard , that are ( as they insinuate ) with us , they would find their own churches not so good , and others not so bad as they imagine . but supposing that such are in the communion of our church ( as it is not to be altogether denied ) yet is not the church presently to be blamed . hear what mr. brinsley saith , in his arraignment of schism , pag. 39. supposing such unwarrantable mixtures have been , and yet are to be found ; yet it cannot properly be put upon the churches score . what her ordinance was touching the keeping back scandalous persons from the sacrament , they which have read her ancient rubrick cannot be ignorant . and mr. vines of the sacrament , c. 19. p. 233. speaking about the power which the minister hath of keeping off unworthy persons from the lords supper , saith , i as little doubt of the intention of the church of england , in the rule given to the minister before the communion , in the case of some emergent scandal at the present time . the church hath provided for the correcting of offenders ; and perhaps there may be as good reason why the censures of it are not now executed , as there was in the late times . mr. crofton once told the independents , in his bethshemesh clouded , p. 110. the continuance of our disordered discipline , is the fruit of their disordered separation from us . i would fain be resolved in what adam steuart , in his zerubbabel to sanballat , pag. 70. puts to the querie : i would willingly know ( saith he ) whether it were not better for them that aim at toleration and separation , to stay in the church , and to joyn all their endeavours with their brethren to reform abuses ; than by their separation , to let the church of god perish in abuses ? whether they do not better , that stay in the church to reform it , when it may be reformed , than to quit it for fear to be deformed in it ? if they had taken this course , and had given us their help , in stead of withdrawing from it , doubtless the censures of the church would have signified more , and the members of it have been in a much better condition than now they are . i shall conclude this with what is said by a well-experienced person , in his address to the nonconformists , pag. 161. if , in stead of this [ separation ] , each christian of you had kept to parochial communion , and each outed minister had kept their residence among them , and communion with them , as private members , in the parish-way ; and had also in a private capacity joyned with those ministers which have succeeded them , in doing all the good they could in the parish , — i nothing doubt , but that by so doing , you would have taken an unspeakable far better course to promote the power of religion in the nation , than by what you have done . it 's they that have in great measure weakned , if not tied our hands , and then complain that we do not fight . if all things therefore were considered , i believe that they would have as little reason to condemn our churches for corruptions in this kind , as i am sure , if they will be constant to themselves , that they have none to separate from us upon account of them . 2. separation is not to be allowed for slight and tolerable errors , which are not fundamental , and hinder communion with christ the head ; as may be collected from pag. 28. & 37. of this sermon . so also say the old nonconformists , in their confutation of the brownists , published by mr. rathband , pag. 4. we desire the reader to consider , that a people may be a true church , though they know not , nor hold not every truth contained in the scriptures , but contrarily hold many errors repugnant to them . this was the primitive opinion and practice , say the provincial assembly , in their vindication , pag. 139. all such who professed christianity , held communion together , as one church , notwithstanding the difference of judgments in lesser things , and much corruption in conversation . and now , that the church of england doth hold no fundamental errors , i appeal to themselves . what it was before the wars , let the author of church-levellers , printed for tho. vnderhil , 1644. speak : when it was objected , that the presbyterians , whilst persecuted by the bishops , did hold forth a full liberty of conscience ; he answers , this is a slander , — the difference between them and the prelates being not in doctrinals , but ceremonials . and therefore after the covenant was taken , whilst the lords had the power of admission to benefices , all persons presented were to read the articles publickly , and profess their consent to them . and that it is the same still , is confessed . so mr. c. in his discourse of the religion of england , pag. 43. the doctrine of faith and sacraments by law established , is heartily received by the nonconformists . so sacrilegious desertion , pag. 45. we differ not at all from the doctrine of the church of england ( till the new doctrine about infants was brought into the new rubrick . ) and certainly , that is , if an error , no dangerous or fundamental one . so dr. owen , in his peace-offering , 1667. p. 12. the confession — of the church of england , declared in the articles of religion , and herein what is purely doctrinal , we fully embrace , and constantly adhere unto . again , pag. 17. we know full well , that we differ in nothing from the whole form of religion established in england , but onely in some few things in outward worship . herein too we have the concurrence of mr. w. himself , in his separation yet no schism , p. 60. if you take it [ the church of england ] for such christians onely who are of the faith in doctrinals with those that hold the thirty nine articles ; here the nonconformists come in for a share also , who are of your faith therein : excepting those which respect discipline and ceremonies . and pag. 62. it is evident , that some sort of errors in a church , though but tolerated , may be a just ground of withdrawing ; though i do not charge the church of england with any such errors . this therefore being thus acknowledged , one would have thought the argument might be fairly dismissed , and that here could be no reason found for separation : and yet when we are come thus near , it is like the two mountains spoken of in wales , upon whose tops you may exchange discourse , and almost come to shaking of hands ; and notwithstanding all , there is little less than a days journey betwixt you . we seem to have brought the matter to a perfect reconciliation ; but when we least thought of it , we are at open war again : for the author last-mentioned grants as much as we can ask ; but immediately thrusts in a reason or two , that he thinks will maintain their ground , and vindicate their practice notwithstanding . the doctrine he hath nothing against ; but yet the preachers are — sometimes he saith , they are contrary one to another ; some are for the doctrine of predestination , others against it , &c. and how shall he then judge of their faith and doctrinals ? pag. 60. sometimes he saith , it is conceived , many of them preach contrary to the articles , ibid. sometimes again , it is conceived , that several of them do not honestly believe those articles that they have professed to believe , p. 62. and to make all sure , because it may be objected , that the people have liberty in this case of complaining ; he answers , to what purpose ? when such errors are publickly professed in printed books , and no course taken for correcting or ejecting of the authors ? pag. 61. things as impertinently , as slanderously suggested . for , what though the ministers differ among themselves in some points , as he doth after his predecessors the brownists affirm , ( as you may see in the nonconformists answer to them , pag. 4. ) is that a reason to forsake our communion ? and doth he that forsakes ours for theirs , find the case much amended ? do not the nonconformists as much differ from each other , as any amongst us ? if not , from whence proceed all those disputes about communion and non-communion with us , about the imputation of christ's righteousness , the nature of justifying faith , lawfulness and unlawfulness of prescribed forms of prayer , of god's prescience , &c. and why are mr. how , and mr. baxter , &c. so much teazed by some of their fellows , and the latter called slanderer , dictator , self-saver , and accused of profaneness , blasphemy , and what not , as you may see in the antidote to his cure , 1670 ? is it not because they will not swallow down the absurdest of their principles , or do go further toward an accommodation of our unhappy differences , than they will allow ? but what are those points that our ministers thus differ among themselves , or from our church in ? is it about the mode in imputation , or about the object of predestination ? &c. these things the church of england is not so minute and positive in . if he will not believe me , i shall turn him over to mr. hickman ( who hath in several tracts particularly concerned himself in this argument , and may be supposed to understand it ) . he , in his latin sermon de haeresium origine , 1659. pag. 37. undertaking to answer tilenus about the doctrine of our church concerning the object of predestination , whether massa corrupta , or no , saith , apage nugas ; non solet ecclesia anglicana in mysteriis hujusmodi explicandis vagari in eas quaestiones , quae nimia subtilitate popularem captum effugiunt . is it about the special grace of god in the conversion of a sinner , or the influence of the holy spirit in it ? then i will dare him to produce any that are herein nonconformists to the doctrine of the church of england , and that teach , that there is no special grace exerted in the conversion of a sinner ; or , that the holy ghost is of no further use in the conversion of men , than as he first inspired those that delivered the doctrine of christianity , &c. as he slanderously doth say . he may force , and scrue , and wrest ; but he cannot do it honestly and fairly . but supposing there were several that did thus teach , and that such books were licensed where this is affirmed : doth this presently make the church heretical ? notwithstanding this , i believe that the church of england is in it self as orthodox , as theirs was in 1646. when shlichtingius his comment on the hebrews , or what was little better , came out thus attested by mr. j. downame : i have perused this comment ; and finding it to be learned and judicious , plain and very profitable , i allow it to be printed and published . i doubt they would have taken it very ill , to have been then charged with socinianism , because that book came out with such an imprimatur , from him that was deputed in those times to give it : and yet i never heard that mr. downame was corrected or ejected for so doing . and may they continue orthodox notwithstanding , and we for such an escape be counted heretical ? but how far a church is concerned in such cases , i think will appear from what is said in the divine right of the presbyterial government , pag. 265. the church of rome ( setting aside those particular persons among them that maintained damnable errors , which were not of the church , but a predominant faction in the church ) continued to be a true church of christ until luther's time , — as the unanimous consent of the orthodox divines confess ; yea , as some think , till the cursed council of trent , — till when , the errors among them , were not the errors of the church , but of particular men. now i hope they will be as favourable to us , and give our church as much allowance in this case as that of rome , and not count it the error of the church , till by some decree , canon , or article it is owned so to be . sir , you may by this time perceive , how hard these persons are put to it , when it makes them so quick to espy , and busie to rake all the dirt they can together , to make our church deformed , and worthy of all that defamation they have branded it with , and of that distance they observe and keep from it . how do they torture phrases , hale along expressions , whithout due process , to the gibbet and the stake , and cry out pelagianism , and socinianism , nay mahometism ? mr. jenkin and his brethren once said , in the vindication of the presbyterial government , pag. 140. to make ruptures in the body of christ , and to divide church from church , and to set up church against church , and to gather churches out of true churches , and because we differ in some things , therefore to hold communion in nothing ; this we think hath no warrant out of the word of god , and will introduce all manner of confusion in churches , — and set open a wide gap to bring in atheism , popery , heresie , and all manner of wickedness . and all people would be apt to say the same , and could not see into the reason of this separation , if it came to this , whether the righteousness of christ be the meritorious or formal cause of our justification ? or , whether moral vertue and grace differ in their nature , or onely in their cause ? it must be somewhat gross and tangible that they can judge of ; and therefore charge them home , that they hold no necessity of the righteousness of christ ; and , that moral vertue , as it was in the heathens , or in christians without any divine grace , will save ; and you do the work : this is a lord have mercy wrote upon their church-doors ; and people will be taught by this , to avoid them as they would the plague , and to be as wary of trusting their souls with them , as their bodies with tygers , bears , and wolves . it is truly and well observed by mr. hickman , in his sermon de haeresium origine , pag. 12. ipsa salus non servet eas oves , quae aeque metuunt a pastoribus & lupis : once render their pastors formidable to them , and we may know how the day will go . beat up these kettle-drums , and you may easily gather , and securely hive the bees . i shall conclude this with what mr. baxter saith , in his cure of church-divisions , pag. 393 , 394. as i have known many unlearned sots , that had no other artifice to keep up the reputation of their learning , than in all companies to cry down such and such ( who were wiser than themselves ) for no scholars ; — so , many that are , or should be conscious of the dulness and ignorance of their fumbling and unfurnish'd brains , have no way to keep up the reputation of their wisdom with their simple followers , but to tell them , o such an one hath dangerous errors , and such a book is a dangerous book , and they hold this , and they hold that ; and so to make odious the opinions and practices of others . — and if ignorance get possession of the ancient and gray-headed , it triumpheth there , and saith , give me a man , that i may dispute with him ; or rather , away with this heretick , he is not fit to be disputed with . how far mr. jenkin is concerned in this character , i leave to his consideration ; but if you have a mind to inquire into it , you may repair to his exodus , where he comes like another samson , shaking his locks , and rushing forth with his mouth full of menaces against the uncircumcised philistims , those audacious hereticks that lie sculking in the corners of the church of england : but ( poor man ) meets with the misfortune of that champion , to be led away in triumph ; and in stead of answering others , is not able to defend himself . 3. separation is not to be allowed for the manner of church-constitution . so saith mr. j. here , pag. 37. much more clear ( if clearer can be ) is the schismaticalness of those who separate from , and renounce all communion with those churches which are not of their own manner of constitution . for which he gives three reasons , pag. 38. and herein he agrees with mr. brinsley , in his arraignment , pag. 32. and in his church-remedy , pag. 51. now if this argument held for presbytery against independency , and that the separation of the latter was for that reason schismatical , i see not why it should not be of as equal force to condemn the former , who yet do presume to offer it on their own behalf against us , and think that they have said enough , when they have been able to pick some quarrel with the present constitution . 4. separation is not to be allowed when it is upon those terms which will make us refuse some churches upon which are seen the scripture-characters of true churches . this mr. j. gives as a reason to confirm the former , pag. 38. now what those characters are , he tells us a little before , in the same page , viz. in scripture , churches are commended , according as their fundamental faith was sound , and their lives holy . nay , he seems to resolve it wholly into the former , pag. 34. where he saith , hath not god his church , even where corruption of manners hath crept into a church , if purity of doctrine be maintained ? now how far our church hath upon it these characters , i appeal to what is abovesaid , to shew ; and for which , i question not but it may contend with any church in the world. 5. it is not to be allowed because other churches are by them accounted better . so pag. 39. men separate to those churches which they account better , because they never found those where they were before ( to them ) good . which he there condemns , and as a remedy against it , advises to labour for experimental benefit by the ordinances . the reason of this separation ( saith mr. vines on the sacrament , p. 235. ) seems plausible to easie capacities , such as the apostle calls , rom. 16. 18. the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the simple ; but if it be urged by the standard of scripture , it will be found too light . but now the case is altered , and it is become a considerable argument ; a more profitable ministry , a purer worship , a stricter discipline , an holier society and fellowship , are some of the massie pillars upon which the weight of this new separation is laid . hither the author of separation yet no schism doth with confidence betake himself , pag. 65 , 66 , 67. the reason supposeth that which is not to be supposed , i. e. that to withdraw from a church for the benefit of a more profitable ministry , is a crime . now here i shall consider , whether this reason will hold , and serve to justifie a separation from a church ; and , if it were granted , whether yet it is a reason amongst us . whether it is so in it self , let mr. brinsley speak , in his arraignment , pag. 47. where the case is put thus ; may not people make choice of what ministers they please , putting themselves under such a ministry as by which they may edifie most ? answ . suppose it , that a people have such a power and right to chuse their own ministers ; yet having once chosen them , and god by giving a blessing to their ministry having ratified and confirmed that choice , evidencing that they are the ministers of god to them ; whether they may now , upon pretext of greater edification , take a liberty to themselves to chuse new ones as oft as they please : this the moderate author of the late irenicon [ i. e. mr. burroughs ] will by no means allow , but condemns , as the direct way to bring in all kind of disorder and confusion into the church . this both presbyterians and independents then are agreed in , that edification alone is no sufficient reason to forsake one church for another ; and that a persons own opinion of his case in that matter , will not make that lawful to him , which will be the unavoidable means of bringing in confusion to the churches which he either leaves , or joyns himself to . but the author of separation yet no schism thinks he hath sufficient reason for his opinion , who doth thus argue , viz. you call it a crime , because you suppose it is a transgression the law of visible communion with some particular church : but i say , that the laws of visible communion with this or that particular church , are but positive , and therefore subordinate to laws more natural and necessary ; such is that wherein we are commanded to take care of our souls and salvation : so that if christians do shift particular churches , for the obtaining of very apparent advantages to their salvation , above what they have had where they were , i see therein no crime at all committed . i grant indeed , that positive laws must give way to natural ; but then there must be a plain necessity that must intervene , to make them inconsistent : for otherwise , both remain in force , as i conceive they do in the instance here given . if indeed salvation was inconsistent with , or what we run the apparent hazard of , in communion with a particular church , then there is sufficient reason for separation from it : but if it be onely that i conceive the increase of knowledge , or the engaging of my affections , may be better attained by separation from , than continuance in its communion , this is far from a necessity , and so no sufficient reason to break it . as it is in a family , if the master takes no care to provide for his children and servants ( who of old were esteemed the goods of their master ) but that they must starve if they continue with him ; or if what he provides , is such as will rather poyson than nourish them , or what is absolutely forbid ( as swines flesh under the law ) : in such a case they may shift for themselves , and refuse to live with him , till he mends their condition . but if what he provides is lawful , wholesom , and sufficient , though not of so good nourishment as might be wished , they are to content themselves , and to keep within the bounds of duty and observance . so it is here ; if we were in a church that either denied us what is necessary to salvation , or that would engage us to do what will bring it into imminent hazard , we have an unquestionable reason to forbear communion with her : but when the means of salvation that we enjoy are sufficient to it , and what we deliberate about is onely the degree and measure , [ what is better and fitter ] we cannot quit a church without sin , and our departure is unnecessary . and that will further appear , if we consider , 1. that no further knowledge or edification is necessary , than what we can attain to in a lawful way ; and what is otherwise lawful in it self , by taking an undue course for it , is made unlawful . as , hearing , reading , and christian converse , are very fit means for my improvement ; but if i for it do injure my family , and neglect my calling , it is so far from being my duty , that it is my sin . so to edifie my self , and to acquire a greater measure of knowledge and christian vertues , is a noble and most excellent end ; but if i for it break off communion with the church whereof i am a member , i make my self a transgressor . all which , if well considered , the falacy of our author's argument will appear . for , suppose i reason thus : the laws of particular families are but postive , and therefore subordinate to laws more necessary ; such is that wherein we are commanded to take care of our souls : and therefore if i neglect the former for the good of the latter , i see no crime therein committed . would not this appear very conceited and imaginary ? and if it 's false here , it is so in the case that he offers . the grounds of his mistake herein , seem to be , 1. that he was so intent upon the positive laws of particular churches , that he had no respect to church-communion in it self , which is highly necessary ; by which means he did not consider , that this principle of shifting communion for the expectation of further improvement , is what tends so to the dissolution of a church , that he that holds it is capable of continuing in no communion whatsoever ; and what cannot be put in practice , but confusion in , and breaking up of churches will most certainly follow . this was what they of new-england had experience of , and therefore provided against , in their platform of church-discipline , cap. 3. church-members ( say they ) may not depart from the church , and so one from another , as they please , nor without just and weighty cause . — such departure tends to the dissolution of the body . — just reasons for a members removal of himself , are , 1. if a man cannot continue , without sin . 2. in case of persecution . but not a word of a more profitable ministry , and greater edification . now if this be the necessary and constant effect of this principle , it cannot be true . 2. another ground of his mistake seems to be , that the notion of a particular church , led him to think , that their separation into societies distinct from our church , was no more than to go from one parish-church to another ( which is also the conceit of the author of sacrilegious desertion ) : this he insinuates pag. 66. but this is apparently false , as i have shewed in part before ; and which will be further evident , if you observe , that their agreement with us in thirty six of our articles , makes them to be no more of us ( whilst they differ in the others that refer to our constitution , and which they separate from us for , as they profess ) , than that of the independents made them one with the presbyterians ; who in all matters of faith did freely and fully consent to the confession published by the assembly , the things of church-government and discipline onely excepted , as they say in the preface to the platform of church-discipline in new-england . and much to the same purpose is that of the congregational churches met at the savoy , 1658. but yet for all this , they neither of them think themselves one with the other ; and the independents , for their separation , were notwithstanding accused of schism by the other . 2. this course is unnecessary , and so unlawful , because even in the way in which a person is ( whilst a member of a true church in the sense all along spoken of ) , he may attain to all due improvement . the author of prelatique preachers none of christs teachers , pag. 31. to encourage people rather to sit at home than hear the publick ministers , tells them , that they might otherwise help themselves , and that they had means sufficient without it , as the scriptures , mutual edification and conference , prayer , and meditation , &c. and that , though never so few or weak , christ was amongst them . and if this would be sufficient when wholly destitute of a ministry , i am apt to think it would do as well with one , though not altogether so well qualified as might be desired . i shall conclude this with what the same author saith , pag. 28. when god hath vouchsafed a sufficiency of means , and those unquestionably lawful , though not of so rank flesh , or so highly promising as some others , for the attaining of any good and desirable end , a declining and forsaking of those means ( whether out of a diffidence of the sufficiency of them for the end desired , or upon any other reason whatsoever ) to espouse others pretending to more strength and efficacy , hath been still displeasing unto god , and of sad consequence to those that have been no better advised than to make trial of them . but is it really thus , that there is any such difference betwixt the abilities of their and our teachers ? and that the obtaining apparent advantages to their salvation in that respect , above what they could have had with us , is what they separate for ? so they would have it thought , as you may see in the call to archippus , printed 1664. pag. 20 , 21. there is indeed a ministry , and preaching ( such as it is ) ; but whether snch as is likely to answer the ends of it , judge ye . are those like to convert souls , that have neither will nor skill to deal with them about their conversion ? so again , when there is no better help than an idle , ignorant , loose-living ministry , ( under which , god knows , we speak it with grief of heart , too many , not to say the most of those that are of late come in , may be reckoned ) or than the cold and heartless way that is generally in use , the coal of religion doth ever go out . an high and daring charge , which he will be concerned to make good ; or to suffer under the imputation of a foul defamer . have they neither will nor skill to convert souls ? from whence then proceed those most excellent and laborious sermons that the wisest of the nation do so extol the present generation for ? whence was it , that when we were bewildred with phrases , and religion made hard and unintelligible , and cases intricate and perplexed , that the things of it were made easie , and to lie near to mens understandings ; and that the part of casuistical divinity is not near so cumbersom as it was in the days of some men ? are they idle and ignorant ? from whence then is it that their adversaries of all sorts are so well opposed , not to say confuted , that they are made to quit their ground , and to betake themselves to new principles in their own defence ; to fall from the infallibility of the person , to that of tradition , as they do abroad ; from old nonconformity , to brownism ; and from presbyterianism to independency , as some do at home ? in what age and church have the great truths and principles of our religion been more effectually considered , more diligently searched into , more clearly stated and explained , or more successfully defended , than in ours ; and which i may challenge the whole party of the separation to shew any thing equal to ? from whence comes all this to pass , if our church did so abound with uncatechised vpstarts , poor shrubs , and empty and unaccomplished predicants , as mr. jenkin , with an holy indignation , doth in his exodus , p. 55. complain ? surely if these men had but duly weighed things , and had been conversant in the writings of our church , or looked amongst themselves , they would not have dared thus to reproch the most learned and industrious ministry that perhaps england ever yet had . let me recommend to such , what mr. baxter saith in the like case , in his explication of passages in the profession of the worcestershire association , printed 1653. pag. 110. i desire those brethren that object this , but to search their hearts and ways , and remember what may be said against themselves , and cast the beam first out of their own eye ; at least to censure as humble men , that are sensible of their own miscarriages and imperfections . and if they did according to this advice , i am perswaded that they would think there were as good and useful men in the world as themselves . do we not find some of themselves forced to acknowledge as much ? consult sacrilegious desertion , pag. 86. i really fear , lest meer nonconformity hath brought some into reputation as consciencious , who by weak preaching will lose the reputation of being judicious , more than their silence lost it . and a little after , speaking of their own ministers , he saith , verily the injudiciousness of too many among you , is for a lamentation : and , pag. 88. he adds , through gods mercy , some conformists preach better than many of you can do . truly when i consider what a stock of worthy and accomplished persons in that quality , whether for sobriety and learning , our church is at present furnished with , ( though it must be confessed , there are that are defective in both ; as when were they not ? ) i look upon men of this quarrelsom temper , to be such as are described in sacrilegious desertion , pag. 91. that having set themselves in a dividing way , secretly do rejoyce at the disparagement of conformists , and draw as many from them as they can ; and that therefore deserve the character he there gives , that they are but destroyers of the church of god : such that to strengthen themselves , and carry on their own interest , care not what they do or say ; but how worthily , let the author of the antidote to mr. baxter's cure judge , who saith , pag. 20. that to reproch a whole party , for the miscarriages of some few , without taking notice how many faults are in those whom they would defend , is the usual artifice of such that think themselves concerned , upon any wretched terms whatsoever , to maintain an ill cause , and have prostituted their consciences to defend an argnment . i will leave such to consider what mr. watson saith , in his sermon of god's anatomy upon the heart , pag. 167. which is so severe , that i care not to transcribe . but to proceed : as little reason is there to separate from a church for remisness of discipline . this the author of separation yet no schism saith that he seeth no sin in , pag. 67. for the reason given before ; and to which my abovesaid answer , and what i have also said pag. 66. will be sufficient . i shall onely add , that care is taken by our church and constitution ( as i have already shewed ) for the due administration of discipline : and if it be objected , that it fails in the exercise and application of it ; i will answer with mr. jenkin here , pag. 33. let them consider , whether the want of purging and reforming of abuses , proceed not rather from some unhappy and political restrictions — in the exercise of discipline , than from the allowance or neglect of the church it self . if you would see more of their opinion formerly as to this case , i refer you to mr. brinsley , in his arraignment of schism , pag. 32. to mr. firmin , in his separation examined , pag. 28. the confutation of the brownists , published by mr. rathband , pag 18. and mr. vines on the sacrament , pag. 22. 6. we must not separate from a church as long as christ holds communion with it . so mr. jenkin here , pag. 36. saith ; separation from churches from which christ doth not separate , is schismatical . so mr. vines on the sacrament , pag. 242. if god afford his communion with a church by his own ordinances , and his grace and spirit , we are not to separate . it would be unnatural and peevish in a child to forsake his mother , while his father owns her for his wife . now whether christ holds not communion with our church , i refer you to the several marks given in this sermon by mr. jenkin , p. 32. such as the having the gospel of salvation preached in an ordinary way , &c. which you may compare with what is said in the vindication of the provincial assembly , pag , 141. and so much is expresly granted by t. p. or rather d. ( as mr. crofton unriddles it ) in his jerubbaal ( wrote in answer to mr. crofton , 1662. ) pag. 18. the essentials constitutive of a true church are , 1. the head. 2. the body . 3. the union that is between them : which three concurring in the church of england , christ being the professed head , she being christs professed body , and the catholick faith being the union-bond whereby they are coupled together , she cannot in justice be denied a true ( though , god knows , far from a pure ) church . so much is granted by the author of nonconformists no schismaticks , pag. 13. who having started an objection , viz. you own the church of england to be a true church of christ ; and if so , christ is in it , and with it ; and why will you leave that church from which christ is not withdrawn ? replies after this sort : " we acknowledge the church of england to be a true church , and that we are members of the same visible church with them ; but it 's one thing to leave a church , and another thing to leave her external communion . to leave a church , is to disown it , and cease to be a member of it or with it , by ceasing to have those requisites that constitute a member of it , as faith and obedience . i will not quarrel at this time with the distinction ; but i do not understand what service it can be of to them , when after all the accuracy of it , such that have nothing more to say , will notwithstanding that be schismaticks , if his own definition of schism hold true ; for , pag. 12. he saith , that schism is a causeless separation of one part of the church from another in external communion . now if the church of england is so a church , that christ holds communion with it ; and they members of that church , as he acknowledgeth : then they that leave her external communion are guilty of schism : and then it 's no matter whether there be any difference betwixt leaving a church , and leaving her external communion , when the least of them makes those that are guilty of it to be schismaticks . to sum up now what hath been said : though there be errors in a church ( if not fundamental ) ; though there be corruption of manners , mixture in communion ; though there be not a perfect constitution and order , and other churches may be thought better : yet if it hath the scripture-characters of a true church upon it , and christ holds communion with it , it is not to be separated from , and separation from it is schismatical . so that as far as the negative part holds , we are secure . 2. for what reasons may a church be separated from , and persons be justified in it ? dr. manton on jude , pag. 496. saith , the onely lawful grounds of separation are three , viz. intolerable persecution , damnable heresie , and gross idolatry . to which mr. jenkin doth here , pag. 23. add unjust excommunication , and a necessary communion with a church in its sins . all which i shall now consider , and enquire , whether they are causes existent at the present amongst us , and what they of the separation have reason to plead . 1. damnable heresie . this i have before sufficiently acquitted our church of , and therefore conceive that i may without more ado proceed . 2. gross idolatry . i find those that deny the lawfulness of hearing the established ministers , are most forward to charge this upon us . with this the confident author of prelatique preachers none of christs teachers , that he might possess the unwary reader betimes , thought safest to begin his book , viz. the idolatrous madness of the common-prayer-book-worship , hath of late been made so manifest to all the houshold of faith in this nation , — as if it was a thing so certain , plain , and notorious , that he must not be one of the houshold of faith that doth not discern it , and abhor the church for it . with the like boldness are we assaulted by the author of a christian and sober testimony against sinful compliance , or the unlawfulness of hearing the present ministers of the church of england , pag. 55. printed 1664. an author of great forwardness , but of intolerable ignorance or malice , that tells you , pag. 44. that our church doth own , that men ought to be made ministers onely by lord bishops ; ( and then what a breach is made upon our church by the bishop of soder in the isle of man , that takes upon him to ordain without that title ? ) that the office of suffragans , deans , canons , petty-canons , prebendaries , choristers , organists , commissaries , officials , &c. is not onely accounted by us lawful , but necessary to be had in the church : and , pag. 45. that women may administer baptism . and , pag. 94. reveals a further secret , that the reformed churches generally renounce the ministry of the church of england , not admitting any by vertue of it to the charge of souls . now do you not think that such as these are able champions , and fit to enter the lists of controversie , that take up things by hear-say ? by this you may guess to what tribe they belong ; and you may learn it from mr. baxter , in his cure , pag. 193. it is an ordinary sound , to hear an ignorant , rash , self-conceited person , especially a preacher , to cry out idolatry , idolatry , against his brothers prayers to god. but what occasion hath our church given for this out-cry ? is it for the matter , or the form of its prayers ? not the matter : for mr. d. in his jerubbaal , pag. 35. doth thus say of it , most of the matter i grant to be divine . and mr. crofton , in his reformation no separation , pag. 25. speaks more universally ; i confess their common-prayer is my burden ; — yet i must confess , i find in it no matter to which ( on a charitable interpretation ) a sober , serious christian may not say , nay can deny his amen . not for the form : for then it must be either because every form is idolatrous , or that this form is especially so , or because it is prescribed and imposed . the first of these is affirmed by the angry author of the antidote to mr. baxter's cure , pag. 11. who saith , we do not think any thing to be idolatry , because it hath something in it to be amended ; but because it is used in the worship of god , without any command from god to make it lawful : and this we must tell our dictator , is a species of idolatry , and forbidden in the second commandment . but this author hath warily declined the main argument which mr. baxter insisted upon three pages before , and falls upon the rere , and picked up an accidental expression : for you will find him , pag. 190. of his cure , to reason after this manner ; where did these men learn to call their brethrens worship false , any more than their own , upon the account that god hath not commanded the manner of it ; when he hath neither commanded us to use a form , or to forbear it ? now i believe it would be as hard for him to find a command for the perpetual use of a conceived payer , as he thinks it will be to find one for a form ; and then they that pray without a form , are as much guilty of idolatry , as those that use it : nay , if the divine authority hath left it free , these are the superstitious , that would make that a duty commanded , and that a sin forbidden , which is not ; as mr. baxter there saith , pag. 282. but if you would see more of this , i shall refer you to the confutation of the brownists , pag. 12 , 13. it is not idolatrous , as this form is especially so . this indeed some have ventured to say , as supposing the liturgie to be taken out of the mass-book . so saith the author of the anatomy of the service-book : and therefore mr. robert baily wrote a book called a parallel of the liturgie with the mass-book , reprinted 1661. but it shall suffice to say to this , what mr. ball , in the name of the nonconformists , replied , in the letters betwixt the ministers of old and new england , pag. 14 , 15. the liturgie was not taken out of the mass-book , in such sense as you object ; but rather the mass , and other idolatrous prayers , were added to it : for popery is a scab or leprosie cleaving to the church . — it is no hard task to shew , that our service-book was reformed in most things , according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church long before the mass was heard of in the world. and if that could not be shewed , yet forms of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that special word or phrase ) , is no more defiled by idolatry , than the light air , or place where idolatry is committed . it is not unlawful to pray , lord help , or lord have mercy ; or to give thanks , praised be god ; because the papists say , lady help , or praised be god and the virgin mary . lastly , it is not idolatrous as it is a form imposed . so much indeed is said in the christian and sober testimony , pag. 68. to pray by an imposed form , is idolatry ; and therefore doth not spare to say , pag. 70. that latimer , ridley , and hooper , and many other martyrs , were idolaters : and yet in the mean time grants , that they were such eminent witnesses of christ , that they shall come with him , and sit upon thrones . but i cannot understand how imposition can alter the nature of things , and make that unlawful which was otherwise in it self lawful ; and i see it is as little understood by the better part among themselves . so the nonconformists confutation of the brownists , pag. 15. if forms thus devised by men be found to be lawful and profitable , what sin can it be for the governors of the church to command that such forms be used ; or for us , that are perswaded of the lawfulness of them , to use them , being imposed ? unless they will say , that therefore it is unlawful to hear the word , receive the sacraments , &c. because we are commanded by the magistrates so to do . whereas indeed we ought the rather to do good things , that are agreeable unto the word , when we know them also to be commanded by the christian magistrate . so mr. baxter , in his cure , pag. 186. if you command your child to learn a catechism , or form of prayer , will you teach him to say , father , or mother , it had been lawful for me to use this form , if neither you nor any body had bid me ; but because you bid me , it is unlawful . o , whither will not partiality lead men ! and it will be worth your while , to see how mr. brinsley , in his church-remedy , argues against it , where he concludes , that amongst all the monstrous and mis-shapen conceptions which these brooding times have hatched and brought forth , i do not know any more prodigious than this , viz. that things indifferent in themselves , are made unlawful by being commanded . and then much less are they thereby made idolatrous . if our liturgie then is good for the matter , and that the matter is not altered by the form ; then you may see where the storm will fall , and what they are to be thought of that are guilty of these reproches , and how much they distrust the goodness of their cause , that betake themselves to such arts as these to support it . 3. a church may be separated from upon intolerable persecution . where i should consider , whether it be persecution , before i proceed to enquire whether it be intolerable . but because i have no mind to aggravate the case , by shewing what hath been by them formerly thought persecution , and what not , i shall omit that part of it , and enter upon the other , viz. the intolerableness of what is suffered , as a reason for which they suppose themselves compelled to quit communion . and it must arise to this degree , or else it will not justifie a separation : persecution alone will not warrant it , unless it comes to be insufferable . now this must be either on the part of the ministers , or on the people . not on the ministers : for all the difference betwixt them and the people is , that they are required to lay down the present exercise of their ministry , till they are satisfied in the submission they must give to the rules and orders of the church : but this is no persecution , much less what is intolerable no persecution : for it is a security required in all churches of the world , that those who are intrusted with that office , should observe the order and discipline that is amongst them . so it was in the church of scotland whilst presbyterian , where it was resolved , that whosoever hath born office in the ministry of the kirk , or that presently bears , or shall hereafter bear office herein , shall be charged by every particular presbytery where their residence is , to subscrive the heads of discipline of the kirk , betwixt this and the next synodal assemblies of the provinces , under the pain ▪ of excommunication ; as you may see in the doctrine and discipline of the kirk of scotland , printed 1641. pag. 12. and as they there declared the office of a bishop to be unlawful in it self , pag. 19. so i find , that the general assembly did require , that besides this subscription to the book of discipline , some persons ( i suppose suspected of affection that way ) should subscribe a particular declaration of the unlawfulness of episcopacy , as was the case of mr. maxwell and mr. hay , in the principal acts of the general assembly , 1644. and thus it was amongst us , when all persons to be ordained , were to bring a testimonial of their having taken the covenant , as you may find it in the form of church-government , pag. 20. and in all places required to take it , and to read the directory the next lords-day after the receipt of it , by an ordinance , aug. 23. 1645. so that taking security by profession and subscription , that the order of the church shall be observed by persons intrusted in the ministrations of it , and suspension in case of refusal , is no persecution . but supposing that so it was , yet it is not intolerable . i do grant , that it must needs be a great trouble to a good man , that he cannot do god and the church that service which he hath devoted himself unto , by reason of some limitations put upon him ; but yet i think , that this is not sufficient to carry him off from communion with a church , and to set up another , because he is denied this liberty : for he is still capable of being a private member of it , and therefore he ought to continue in the latter capacity , when suspended from the former . so saith mr. crofton , in his reformation not separation , epist . to the reader : i cannot be perswaded , that i am disbanded from christs army , so soon as i am superseded to my conduct ; i must march under his banner , when i may not be permitted to march at the head of a company . so again , pag. 98. i conceive , administration of god's worship is much different from attendance on god's worship ; and i stand bound to the last , when i am ( justly or unjustly ) barred from the first . and this was the opinion of the old nonconformists . but now we find it otherwise ; and sometimes these plead the obligation of their ordination , sometimes the relation which they have to a peculiar people , and sometimes the necessity of multitudes of souls . the first we find insisted upon by the author of separation yet no schism , epist . to the reader : if it be asked , may not supreme magistrates , within their dominion , suspend some ministers from the exercise of their office , when they conceive it is for the peace of the rest ? it will be answered , that the lord of lords , who giveth the office and the commission , — hath certainly with the office designed them to the exercise thereof , and hath therein placed , not onely the office , but the exercise thereof , above the restraint of any powers whatsoever , so long as the exercise thereof continues to be regulated by the laws of christ . and in this case , nothing is more ordinarily produced than that of the apostle , wo is me , &c. but is not this to advance every one beyond the cognisance of superiors , and to fall in with the church of rome , whilst they decry it ? if indeed theirs was the apostle's case , the apostle's resolution of obeying god rather than man , would become them : but how little it is so , let the old nonconformists shew , in their confutation of the brownists , pag. 41. how unskilfully that speech of the apostles is alledged , will appear to them that will consider these three differences between their case and ours . 1. they that inhibited the apostles , were professed enemies to the gospel . 2. the apostles were charged not to teach in the name of christ , nor to publish any part of the doctrine of the gospel . 3. the apostles received not their calling and authority from men , nor by the hands of men , but immediately from god himself ; and therefore might not be restrained or deposed by men : whereas we , though we exercise a function whereof god is the author , and we are also called of god to it , yet we are called and ordained by the ministry of men , and may therefore by men be deposed , and restrained from the exercise of it . i shall conclude this with what mr. crofton saith , in his reformation not separation , pag. 70. if the being of christianity depended upon my personal ministry , as the being or appearing a christian doth on my communion with the church visible , the inference might be of some force : but till that be proved , i think it is of little . but is this really the case ? then what becomes of those that among themselves have taken up wholly with other professions , and yet were never charged by their brethren , for so doing , ( as mr. baxter is by the author of the antidote , pag. 15. ) with having left the lord's work ? now i question not , but the same reason that did induce some to take up with other employments to the neglect of this , and so satisfie the rest , that they acquiesce in it , will also be sufficient to shew , that meer ordination cannot bind to the exercise of that office , when the magistrate and church forbids ; and consequently , that a restraint is no intolerable persecution . but the relation that they have to a peculiar people makes this inhibition intolerable . this is indeed pleaded in sacrilegious desertion , pag. 11. & 45. i undertake to prove , that pastors and people are the constitutive essentials of a true church ; that dr. seaman , mr. calamy , dr. manton , &c. with the people subject to them as pastors , were true churches : prove you , if you can , that on august 24. 1662. they were degraded , or these true churches dissolved . but before he puts others to prove the contrary , he ought to have made good his own proposition , by proving , that the relation betwixt particular pastors and people is not to be dissolved . for what though pastors and people are the constitutive essentials of a true church ? what though dr. seaman , mr. calamy , &c. and the people with them , were true churches ? can neither dr. seaman , &c. remove , or be removed from a people , but all this mischief follows , that ministers are presently degraded , and churches dissolved ? could not mr. calamy remove from st. edmondsbury to rochford , and from rochford to aldermanbury , as he himself doth declare in his apologie ? could not mr. jenkin remove from black-fryers to christ-church , without all this disorder ? what wreck was here made in churches , if this relation was indissoluble ? but if a pastor may thus remove himself from one church , upon invitation to another , ( as it seems he may ) it shews , that the relation is not so strict as is pretended ; and that , consequently , superiors in church and state may so far dissolve that relation , as well as the pastor himself . but however , what relief will this afford to those that leave those places where they had any pretence of such a relation , and busie themselves where they had none ? what relief will this be to those that contract a new relation , and that do gather churches out of churches ? surely dr. seaman's , dr. jacomb's , and mr. jenkin's flocks now , are taken from other places than alhallows breadstreet , martins ludgate , &c. lastly , the necessity of the people is what doth make their preaching necessary ( as they would have it understood . so sacrilegious desertion , pag. 59. ) , and so their suspension intolerable persecution . but supposing this , ( as doubtless there is and ever was work sufficient for a greater number of skilful and faithful labourers ) ; yet is there no way to be useful , but by facing a numerous congregation , and preaching at such times , and in such places , as do declare a defiance to the church , which they thereby make a manifest rupture in , and open separation from ? is there no good to be done by preaching to five , besides a mans own family , and by personal conference and instruction ? how came then our saviour and his apostles oftentimes to betake themselves to this way , as an author of their own , in his archippus , doth inform us , pag. 21 ? but if it be of great advantage , and that it is no little part of a ministers duty , personally to instruct , and preach from house to house , as that author saith , how comes it to be so sadly neglected by them , as he there complains ? and how comes the apostles wo to be pleaded for the one , and not to bind the other ? hear what the author of sacrilegious desertion faith , pag. 93. is it not too much hypocrisie to cry out against them that forbid us preaching , and in the mean time to neglect that which none forbids us , viz. christian conference . certainly , as he saith , pag. 94. sincerity inclineth men to that way of duty that hath least ostentation . but if the state of the people be indeed the reason , why do we not find them where there is most need of their assistance ? are we not told , in sacrilegious desertion , pag. 10. that the nonconformists have found , that some places of many years past have had no ministers at all ? are there no places in england and wales , that do much more abound in ignorance , than london , and the adjacent parts ? and are the nonconformists there to be met with ? no , that work is left to one ( good soul ) that having not a liberty by the law to exercise his office in the more publick way , doth with unwearied diligence pursue the ends of it , in travelling over steep mountains and craggy rocks , and conversing with the rude and untaught natives , whilst others do more consult their ease and profit . you see then , upon the whole , that their suspension is not intolerable persecution , or what will be sufficient to justifie their separation ; but that still , notwithstanding their pleas , they are upon the same terms with the people ; and what will not justifie the separation of the people , will not justifie that of the minister ; and what is sufficient to retain the people in communion , is sufficient to retain the minister . and so we are left to consider the state of the people , and whether there be on their part intolerable persecution . not to dispute whether what is suffered be persecution , or not ; i shall onely consider , whether it be what is sufficient to warrant their separation : and that will appear , if we observe , that their suffering must be either because they do not at all communicate with the church , or that there are some particular things onely which they do not communicate with us in . if it be for the former , then they did separate before their suffering , and consequently their suffering can be no reason for their separation . if it be onely as to particular things , then , i say , it will be hard to shew , that any person doth suffer intolerably upon that score ; the church proceeding in so great tenderness , where persons have shewed their readiness to hold communion with her in what they can , and have so far given satisfaction of their piety , peaceableness , and compliance , that in the cases where the laws have been thought severe , they have rarely been executed upon such in their severity . which i conceive is a sufficient reply to those that cry out , persecution , and intolerable , because of the great penalties that offenders in such kind are liable unto . for , the meer supposal and expectation of severity , is no good reason for separation , as long as it is not , nor is likely to be actually inflicted . for , as mr. bradshaw the nonconformist , in his vnreasonableness of separation , printed 1640. pag. 107. doth say , though humane laws , under never so great punishments , should bind us to never so great corruptions in gods service ; yet so long as we do not actually communicate in those corruptions , our communicating is never the worse for the said laws : so i say , though laws threaten never so great punishments , yet so long as we do not actually suffer them , our condition is not the worse for these laws . and this was thought a good argument by mr. baily , in his historical vindication of the church of scotland , 1646. pag. 20. who , when charged , that the king and his family are subject to the classical assemby , answers , that any presbyterian did ever so much as begin a process with any prince , when they had the greatest provocations thereto , it cannot be shewed to this day . the church of scotland , notwithstanding all the cross actions of king james , or king charles , — yet never did so much as bethink themselves of drawing against them the sword of church-censures . where he denies not the charge of their churches claiming such a power ; but thinks it enough to reply , that she had never so used it . so then you see , that it is not the power that our superiors have , nor the penalties that a law threatens , that will serve in this case ; as long as the use of that power , and execution of those laws is suspended : and a person ought not any more to quit the church , than he will his country , as long as he may be suffered to abide in it . and that he may do with us , that will hold communion with our church in what he can , and doth behave himself with modesty in those things which for the present he cannot communicate in . 4. vnjust excommunication is another reason given to make separation warrantable . but that being a spiritual persecution ( as camero calls it ) doth not really differ from the former , and therefore will receive the same answer . 5. that which will warrant a separation from a church , is a necessary communion with it in its sins . towards the resolution of which , i shall observe , 1. that bare communion with a church , doth not necessarily make a person to communicate with the sins of it . this is granted by all that say , we must not separate from a church , because of the ungodly that are in its communion , or because of some mixtures that are in its worship : and if we must not separate from them , it is certain we may continue there , without being guilty of the sin of them . how far the first of these is and ought to be acknowledged , i have shewed above , at pag. 62. and how far the latter , you may see in mr. brinsley's arraignment of schism , pag. 50. though toleration of some unwarrantable mixtures in a church , be an evil ; yet it is not so great an evil , as separation upon that ground . this was the opinion of the five dissenting brethren , in their apologetical narration , pag. 6. we have always professed , and that in those times when the churches of england were the most either actually over-spread with defilements , or in the greatest danger thereof , — that we both did and would hold a communion with them , as the churches of christ . and this they agreed to , upon this consideration , that otherwise there hath been no church yet , nor will be to the day of judgment , which persons otherwise perswaded , could or can hold communion with ; as you may find it in the old nonconformists letters to those of new-england , pag. 12. mr. firmin's separation examined , pag. 25. and the vindication of the provincial assembly , pag. 135. 2. i add , that the imposition of things unlawful , or so thought to be , in a church , makes a person in this case no farther concerned , than as they are imposed on him . for , if corruptions tolerated are no bar to communion , then they are not when imposed ; meer imposition not altering the nature , as mr. crofton saith , in his jerubbaal , pag. 27. 3. imposition in some things unlawful , or supposed so to be , will not justifie a separation from what is lawful . the author of separation yet no schism , in his epistle to the reader , thus pleads for the people : the people are not always free from such impositions which they extremely suspect as sinful ; as that they cannot enjoy baptism for their children without the cross , nor receive the lords supper without kneeling ; to name no more , ( as well he could not ) . but suppose that these things are imposed , and what they extremely suspect ; can this be a reason for their separation in those things where nothing of this nature is ? certainly , in obedience to magistrates , and for communion with a church , we ought to go as far as we can ; and what i cannot do , is no excuse for the omission of what i can . thus did the old nonconformists think and practice , as i observed to you before , from the vindication of the provincial assembly , pag. 135. that though some of them thought it unlawful to receive the sacrament kneeling , yet they held communion with the church in the rest . and accordingly mr. firmin argues , in his separation examined , pag. 29. suppose there should be some humane mixtures , are all the ordinances polluted ? why do you not communicate with them in those ordinances which are pure ? now if this be true , what shall we say to them that have nothing to object against the greatest part of what they are required to communicate with us in ; and yet keep up a total and positive separation from us , as if all parts were alike infected , and that from the crown of the head , to the sole of the foot , there was nothing but wounds and putrifying sores ? 4. the meer suspicion that a person may have of the unlawfulness of what is imposed , will not justifie his omission of , or separation in that particular . for , he ought to come to some resolution in it , and in case of obedience , communion , and charity , to go against such his suspicion . to this purpose speaks mr. geree , in his resolution of ten cases , 1644. things wherein doubts arise , are of a double nature : 1. meerly arbitrary , and at my own dispose : 2. that are under command ; as coming to the sacrament , obedience to the higher powers in things lawful . if scruples arise about these , and a man doubts he sins if he acts , and he also doubts he sins if he forbears , &c. in this case he must weigh the scales , and where he apprehends most weight of reason , must incline that way , though the other scale be not altogether empty . and this done , after humble and diligent search , with bewailing our infirmity , that we are no more discerning , will be accepted by god : god puts not his people on necessity of sinning , nor can our scruples dispense with his commands . so mr. faldo , in his quakerism no christianity , pag. 93. in doubtful and difficult cases , wherein we cannot reach the knowledge of our duty , it 's our duty to follow the examples of the greatest number of the saints , &c. and then surely , what will serve in such a case to let us dispense with our doubts , will much more in obedience to governours , and for communion with a church . this i thought to have more largely handled , as it 's thought a new and late argument , used by bishop sanderson , &c. ( but what i can prove to be of old the common resolution of the case ) , and as the contrary is pleaded for from mr. hales : but lighting happily upon a book called mr. hales's treatise of schism examined , wrote by a learned person , i shall refer you to it , where he particularly undertakes this point , pag. 110 , &c. having thus made good the three propositions abovesaid , and shewed , that the church of england is a true church ; that there is a separation from it ; and , that this separation is voluntary and unnecessary : that which remains is not to be denied , viz. that therefore the present separation is schismatical . so that now you may see in what condition those of our dissenting brethren are , that withdraw from the communion of our church ; and how little able they will be to reconcile their present proceedings , to their former principles and professions . it was once said by them , in the vindication of the presbyterial government , pag. 133. we dare not make separation from a true church , by departing from it , as you do , [ speaking to the independents . ] then independency was what they proved to be schism , because , 1. independents do depart from our churches , being true churches , and so acknowledged by themselves . 2. they draw and seduce members from our congregations . 3. they erect separate congregations . 4. they refuse communion with our churches in the sacraments . now we judge , that no schism is to be tolerated in the church ; as say the london-ministers , in their letter to the assembly , pag. 3. then the inevitable consequences of it could be discovered and represented , as that by it peoples minds would be troubled , and in danger to be subverted ; bitter heart-burning would be fomented and perpetuated ; godly , painful , and orthodox ministers be discouraged , and despised ; the life and power of godliness be eaten out , by frivolous disputes ; and the whole course of religion in private families be interrupted , and undermined ; as they there say , pag. 4. then church-division was as great a sin as adultery and theft , as dr. bryan maintains , in the publick disputation at kilingworth , 1655. pag. 28. then it was pleaded , that they covenanted not onely against sin , but schism , as saith mr. watson , in his anatomy upon the heart , pag. 160. but is not that now true , which he there charges upon themselves , we have gone against the letter of it ? for , do not many of them that have said all this , set up churches against churches , exercise the worship of god , administer ordinances , the word , sacraments , apart , and in a separated body ? which in a peculiar manner , and by way of eminency , is called schism , saith mr. brinsley , pag. 16. is schism all on a sudden grown so innocent a thing , that persons are to be indulged , and tamely permitted to continue in it ? and is it not as sad now , as it was then , that many that pretend to religion , make no conscience of schism , as dr. manton on jude , pag. 492. doth observe ? certainly , that still remains good which was said by mr. brinsley , pag. 17. the schisms and divisions which are broken in , and that amongst god's own people , are what i cannot but look upon as one of the blackest clouds , one of the saddest judgments which hang over the head of this kingdom at this day ; of sad influence for the present , and , unless they be healed , of dangerous consequence for the future . have we not atheism , and infidelity , and profaneness enough to encounter ; but must we have more work found us , by those that have given us arguments to oppose themselves with ? are we in no danger of being over-run with a foreign power , and that the romans shall come and take away our name and church ; when we , which are at difference amongst our selves , shall without any opposition be swallowed up by them ? are they yet to be taught , that as nothing can , so nothing will sooner make us a prey to them , than mutual hostilities amongst our selves ? and whence is it , that they will run the adventure , and care not what they expose us to ? is it that rome is nearer to them , than they are to us ? that will not be supposed . is it that they expect better quarter from that , than they meet with from our church ? that let experience decide . is it that by bringing all to confusion , and a common scramble , they may hope to go away with the supremacy ? that their divisions amongst themselves doth confute . for , can they think , because they agree against us , that they will agree among themselves ? or , can they think , if they do not , that one alone can carry the victory from the common enemy ? let a sober author of their own , in his discourse of the religion of england , be heard , who saith , pag. 39. that the common safety and advancement of true religion cannot stand by a multiplicity of petty forms ; but requires an ample and well-setled state , to defend and propagate it against the amplitude and potency of the romish interest . and are not these the thoughts of the wisest in this nation ? and shall men yet continue to keep up feuds and animosities , and make no scruple of contradicting themselves to feed them ? it was once said by mr. brinsley , pag. 62. that it 's a foul blemish to a minister of christ , to speak one thing to day , and another thing tomorrow , to say and unsay . and i will appeal to all the world , whether this be not what our brethren are guilty of . surely , if they would but take the pains to review what they have written , and weigh those arguments against schism and separation that they formerly published , they would return to themselves , and to that church which they have so unadvisedly broken off from ; they would then think it their duty , with the old nonconformists , to come as far as they can , and their happiness to live in the communion of that church where they may be as good as they will ; they would then see , that schism is a great sin , and that their present separation is schism . i should now conclude , but that i may fear that mr. jenkin will proclaim , and others think me a slanderer , for saying , pag. 44. that he hath borrowed the substance of this sermon from mr. brinsley's arraignment of schism , if i do not make it good : and therefore in my own vindication , and also to shew you how far holiness and indignation may be pretended , when indeed it is little better than hypocrisie and calumny that prompts men on , i shall draw the comparison , and leave you and all others to judge , whether he be not one of those empty and unaccomplished predicants spoken of in his exodus , pag. 56. that preach the sermons of others , and , more than that , dare before all the world publish them as his own : the like to which is also done by him , or one of his brethren , in the vindication of the presbyterial government , pag. 132. compared with mr. brinsley , pag. 16. and pag. 134. with 52. and pag. 135. with 41. nor hath he borrowed from mr. brinsley alone , but hath rifled divers other authors for the greatest part of his book , as might easily be proved , were it either requisite , or worth the while . how far he is beholden to others for that kind of wit and tawdry eloquence that a gross and bribed flatterer , in his patronus bonae fidei , gives him the title of seneca for , the author of the vindication of the conforming clergie hath already shewed : and how bold he hath made with others for argument and reason , the following instances will be a sufficient specimen , where he hath scarcely left any thing untouched that he then thought might serve his purpose . a sermon preached by w. jenkin , herewith printed , and also to be found in his comment on jude , printed in quarto , 1652. the arraignment of the present schism , by john brinsley . london , 1646. mr. jenkin . their heresies were perverse and damnable opinions ; their schism was a perverse separation from church-communion : the former was in doctrinals , the latter in practicals ; the former was opposite to faith , this latter to charity . by faith all the members are united to the head , by charity one to another : and as the breaking of the former is heresie , so their breaking of the latter was schism . pag. 21. mr. brinsley . heresie ( saith jerome ) is properly a perverse opinion , schism is a perverse separation . the one a doctrinal , the other a practical error . the one opposite to faith , the other to charity ▪ by the one ( faith ) all the members are united to the head ; by the other ( charity ) they are united to one another . now the breaking of the first of these bands is heresie , the latter schism . pag. 14. mr. jenkin . schism is usually said to be twofold , negative , and positive . 1. negative is , when there is onely simplex secessio , when there is onely a bare secession , a peaceable and quiet withdrawing from communion with a church , without making any head against that church from which the departure is . 2. positive is , when persons so withdrawing do so consociate and draw themselves into a distinct and opposite body , setting up a church against a church , or , as divines express it , from augustine , an altar against an altar . and this is it which in a peculiar manner , and by way of eminency , is called by the name of schism . pag. 22. mr. brinsley . there is , to use his terms ( camero ) , a negative and a positive separation . the former is simplex secessio , when one or more do quietly and peaceably withdraw themselves from communion with a church , — not making head against that church from which they are departed : the other , when persons so withdrawing do consociate and draw themselves into a distinct and opposite body , setting up a church against a church . — this is that which augustine , and other divines after him , call the setting up of an altar against an altar . and this is it ( saith that judicious author ) which in a peculiar manner , and by way of eminency , is called by the name of schism . pag. 16. mr. jenkin . schism beeomes sinful , either in respect , 1. of the groundlesness ; or , 2. the manner thereof . 1. the groundlesness ; when there is no casting of persons out of the church by an unjust censure of excommunication , no departure by unsufferable persecution , no heresie nor idolatry in the church maintained . 2. the manner of separation makes it unlawful ; when 't is made without due endeavour , and waiting for reformation of the church from which the departure is : and such a rash departure is against charity , which suffers both much and long all tolerable things : it is not presently distasted , when the justest occasion is given ; it first useth all possible means of remedy . the chyrurgeon reserves dismembring as the last remedy . it looks upon a sudden breaking off from communion with a church ( which is a dismembring ) not as chyrurgery , but butchery . pag. 23. mr. brinsley . vnwarrantable , either for ground , or manner ; the former an unjust , the latter a rash separation ; each a schism . vnjust , when there is no persecution , no spreading error or heresie , no idolatry . 2. the manner , which if sudden and heady , without due endeavour and expectance of reformation in that church , it may be a rash , and consequently an unwarrantable separation , inasmuch as it is opposite to charity , — it being the nature of charity to suffer much and long , — all things which are sufferable : — it is not presently distasted , so as to fly off upon every small and trivial occasion ; no nor yet upon a just and weighty one , without first assaying all possible means of remedy . so deals the wary and careful chyrurgeon with his patient ; not presently fall to dismembring , — reserving it for the last remedy . so deals charity by the church ; not presently separate and break off communion ( which is the dismembring of a church . ) no , this ( saith camero ) is not chyrurgia , but carnificina ; which mr. cotton — englisheth rightly , not chyrurgery , but butchery . pag. 24 , 25. mr. jenkin . i shall not spend time to compare it with heresie , though some have said that schism is the greater sin of the two . aug. contr . don. l. 2. c. 6. tells the donatists , that schism was a greater sin than that of the traditores , who in time of persecution , through fear , delivered their bibles to persecutors to be burnt . a sin at which the donatists took so much offence , that it was the ground of their separation . pag. 24. mr. brinsley . musculus informs me of some who in point of sinfulness have compared schism with heresie , and others who have aggravated it beyond it , as the greater evil of the two . augustine tells the donatists , contr . don. l. 2. c. 6. that their schism was a greater sin than that which they took such high offence at , and which was the ground of their separation ( viz. the sin of the traditores , such as in time of persecution had through fear delivered up their bibles to the persecutors to be burnt . ) pag. 17 , 18. mr. jenkin . in respect of christ , 1. it 's an horrible indignity offered to his body ( as the apostle speaks , 1 cor. 1. 15. ) and makes him to appear the head of two bodies . how monstrous and dishonourable is the very conceit hereof ! 2. it 's rebellion against his command , his great command of love. the grace of love is by some called the queen of graces ; and it 's greater than faith in respect of its object , not god onely , but man ; its duration , which is eternal ; its manner of working , not in a way of receiving christ ( as faith ) , but of giving the soul to him . pag. 24. mr. brinsley . it is injurious to christ , who seemeth by this means to be as it were divided . so paul urgeth it , is christ divided ? — himself hereby made the head of two disagreeing bodies ; which is dishonourable , and monstrous to conceive of him . pag. 19. mr. brinsley . it 's opposite to so great a grace as charity . charity , the queen of graces , — greater than faith , — 1. in regard of the object : — faith respecteth god onely , but charity both god and man. 2. in regard of the manner of working : faith worketh intramittendo , by receiving and letting in christ and his benefits ; but charity extramittendo , by giving out the soul. — 3. in regard of duration : charity is for eternity . p. 18. mr. jenkin . by divisions among our selves , we endeavour to divide our selves from him , in and from whom is all our fulness . — upon the stock of schism commonly heresie is grafted . there is no schism ( saith jerome ) but ordinarily it inventeth and produceth some heresie , that so the separation may seem the more justifiable . the novatians and donatists from schism fell to heresies . our times sadly comment upon this truth , they equally arising unto both . pag. 25 , 26. mr. brinsley . by dividing themselves from the body , they are in a dangerous way to divide themselves from the head. — schism maketh way to heresie . so jerome . there is no schism , but ordinarily it inventeth and broacheth some heresie , that so the separation may seem the more justifiable . — a truth sufficiently experimented in those ancient schismaticks , the novatians and donatists , who from schism fell to be authors or defenders of heretical opinions . we have a late and dreadful instance , pag. 22. mr. jenkin . it s injurious to the peace and quietness of the church . — if the natural body be divided and torn , pain and smart must needs follow . the tearing and rending of the mystical body , goes to the heart of all sensible members : they often cause the feverish distempers of hatred , wrath , seditions , envying , murders . schism in the church puts the members out of joynt ; and disjoynted bones are painful : all my bones ( saith david ) are out of joynt . church-divisions cause sad thoughts of heart . pag. 27. mr. brinsley . the church is hereby disquieted . even as it is in the natural body , if there be a solutio continui , so as it be divided , it breedeth smart and pain . — the mystical body cannot be rent and torn by divisions , but it goeth to the heart of all the sensible members . the divisions of reuben were great thoughts of heart , — oft-times breeding those feverish distempers of hatred , variance , wrath , seditions , i and murders too . p. 21. mr. brinsley . schism in the church puts the members out of joynt ; — bones out of joynt are painful . thence david borrows this expression , all my bones are out of joynt . such are schisms in the church , causing sad thoughts of heart . pag. 67. mr. jenkin . it 's opposite to the edification of the church . division of tongues hindred the building of babel ; and doubtless division in hearts , tongues , hands , and heads , must needs hinder the building of jerusalem . while parties are contending , churches and common-wealths suffer . in troublous times the walls and temple of jerusalem went but slowly on . pag. 27. mr. brinsley . the church is hereby hindred in the edification of it . we know what it was that hindred the building of babel , even a schism in their tongues , division of languages . — and surely there is no one thing that can more hinder the building of jerusalem , — when christians shall be divided in their heads , hearts , tongues , hands . — as it is in civil wars , whilst the parties are contending , the commonwealth suffers . — the wall and temple of jerusalem went slowly on in troublous times . pag. 21. mr. jenkin . when church-members are put out of joynt , they are made unserviceable , and unfit to perform their several offices . they who were wont to joyn in prayer , sacraments , and fasting , and were ready to all mutual offices of love , are now fallen off from all . pag. 28. mr. brinsley . members of the church being put out of joynt by schism , become unuseful to the body , unapt to those duties and services which before they performed . — how is it that those who were wont to joyn with the churches in hearing , prayer , sacraments , and were so ready to all mutual offices of love , are now fallen off from all ? pag. 67. mr. jenkin . our separation ( from rome ) was not before all means were used for the cure and reformation of the romanists , by the discovery of their errours , that possibly could be thought of : notwithstanding all which ( though some have been enforced to an acknowledgement of them ) they still obstinately persist in them . our famous , godly , and learned reformers would have healed babylon , but she is not healed . many skilful physicians have had her in hand , but she grew so much the worse . — in stead of being reclaimed , they anathematized them with the dreadfullest curses , excommunicated , yea murdered and destroyed multitudes of those who endeavoured their reducement ; not permitting any to trade , buy or sell , to have either religious or civil communion with them , except they received the beasts mark in their hands and foreheads . all which considered , we might safely forsake her . — since in stead of healing babylon , we could not be preserved from her destroying of us , we did deservedly depart from her , and every one go into his own country : and unless we had done so , we could not have obeyed the clear precept , apoc. 18. come out of her my people . pag 29 , 30. mr. brinsley . our separation was necessitated , through their obstinacy in their errors ; which notwithstanding the discovery of them , and that so clear , as that some of their own have been enforced to an acknowledgement of them , and all ways and means used for their reformation , they still persist in . what then remains , but a cutting off ? we would have healed babylon , but she is not healed . what then followeth ? forsake her , and let us go every one to his own country . how many physicians have had her in hand , luther , &c. and the rest of our pious reformers ? but all to no purpose . — we were enforced — she not permitting any to trade , buy or sell , to have either religious or civil communion with her , except they receive her mark in their hands and foreheads : but , on the other hand , anathematizing them . — these things considered , let god and the world be judge , whether our separation from them be voluntary . — not unjust , being warranted by authority of scripture , commanding this separation , come out of her my people , rev. 18. 4. pag. 27 , 28. mr. jenkin . to separate from congregations where the word of truth and gospel of salvation are held out in an ordinary way , as the proclamations of princes are held forth upon pillars , to which they are affixed ; where the light of truth is set up , as it were upon a candlestick , to guide passengers to heaven : to separate from them , to whom belong the covenants , and where the sacraments , the seals of the covenant , are for substance rightly dispensed ; where christ walketh in the midst of his golden candlesticks , and discovereth his presence in his ordinances , whereby they are made effectual to the conversion and edification of souls in an ordinary way ; where the members are saints , by a professed subjection to christ , — where there are sundry who in the judgement of charity may be conceived to have the work of grace really wrought in their hearts , by walking in some measure answerable to their profession : i say , to separate from these , as those with whom church communion is not to be held , is schismatical . pag. 31 , 32. mr. brinsley . are not our congregations true churches ? what , are not here the pillars of truth ? is not the word of truth , the gospel of salvation here held forth , and that in an ordinary and constant way , even as the edicts and proclamations of princes are wont to be held forth by pillars to which they are affixed ? — where the light of gods truth is set up and held forth , for the guiding of passengers in the way to eternal life ? are not here the golden candlesticks , where the seals of gods covenant , the sacraments of the new testament , are for substance rightly dispensed ; — where there is the presence of christ in the midst of his ordinances , so as in an ordinary way they are made effectual to the conversion and salvation of many ; where christ sitteth , walketh in the midst of his golden candlesticks ; — where there are societies of visible saints , all such by outward profession , and a considerable part of them walking in measure answerable to that profession ; can it be questioned , where these are , whether there be true churches of christ ? pag. 29 , 30. mr. jenkin . the voluntary and unnecessary separation from a true church , is schismatical . pag. 31. mr. brinsley . schism is a voluntary and unwarrantable separation from a true church . pag. 23. mr. jenkin . pretences for separation are alledged ; frequently , and most plausibly , mixt communion , and of admitting into church-fellowship the vile with the precious , and those who are chaff , and therefore ought not to lodge with the wheat . mr. brinsley . sinful mixtures are tolerated among you : — there is not that due separation of the wheat from the chaff , the precious from the vile ; but all sorts are admitted . mr. jenkin . answ . 1. not to insist upon what some have urged , viz. that this hath been the stone at which most schismaticks have stumbled , and the pretence which they have of old alledged — as is evident in the examples of the audaeans , novatians , donatists , anabaptists , bro●nists . pag , 33. mr. brinsley . answ . 1. i might here mind them , that this hath been the common stock whereup●n schism hath been usually grafted , the common pretence taken up by all schismaticks , — the novatians , audaeans , donatists : — from the same root sprung that later schism of the anabaptists : — it was the same stone at which brown and his followers first stumbled . pag. 37 , 38 , 39. mr. jenkin . 2. let them consider , whether the want of reforming abuses , proceed not from some unhappy obstructions in the exercise of discipline , rather than from the allowance of the church . mr. brinsley . what though there are some failings in the execution , through some unhappy obstructions in the exercise of discipline ? yet cannot the church stand charged with them . ▪ pag. 40. mr. jenkin . 3. let them consider , whether when they separate from sinful mixtures , the church be not at that very time purging out those sinful mixtures . pag. 33. mr. brinsley . consider the manner in separating at such a time , in a time of reformation . — what , separate from a reforming church ? pag. 51 , 52. mr. jenkin . hath not god his chur●h , even w●●re corruption of manners hath cr●pt into a church , i● purity of doctrine be maintained ? and is sep●ration from that church lawful , from which god doth not separate ? pag. 34. mr. brinsley . suppose there may be some , nay many just scandals amongst us , by reason of corruption of manners ; yet is not this a sufficient ground of separation from a church wherein there is purity of doctrine . pag. 50. mr. brinsley . how dare any forsake that church which god hath not forsaken ? p. 59. mr. jenkin . let them consider , whether god hath made private christians stewards in his house , to determine whether those with whom they communicate are fit members of the church , or not ? or rather , whether it be not their duty , when they discover tares in the church , in stead of separating from it , to labour that they may be found good corn ; that so when god shall come to gather his corn in to his garner , they may not be thrown out ? church-officers are ministerially betrusted with the ordering of the church , and for the opening and shutting of the doors of the churches communion , by the keys of doctrine and discipline ; and herein if they shall be either hindred , or negligent , private christians shall not be intangled in the guilt of their sin. p. 34 , 35. mr. brinsley . god hath not made all private christians stewards , nor yet surveyors in his house , so as that every one should take an exact notice of the conditions of all those whom they hold communion with , who are fit to be members of the church , and who not . it is cyprian's counsel , what though there be some tares discovered in the church , — yet let us , for our parts , labour that we may be found good corn , that so when god shall come to gather his crop into his garner , we may not be cast out . — ministerially the church-officers , whom christ hath betrusted with the ordering of the church , them he hath made the porters in his house , for the opening and shutting the doors of the churches communion , by the keys of doctrine and discipline . now , in this case , if either their hands be tied by any humane restrictions , — or if through negligence they let loose the rains , how private christians should be entangled in the guilt of that sin , it cannot be conceived . pag. 414. mr. jenkin . the command not to eat with a brother , &c. 1 cor. 5. 11. concerns not religious but civil communion , by a voluntary , familiar , intimate conversation , either in being invited , or inviting . pag. 35. mr. brinsley . that which paul prohibits there , is not properly a religious , but a civil communion , not to mingle themselves with such scandalous livers , by a voluntary , familiar , and intimate conversation , — in an ordinary way , repairing to their tables , or inviting them to yours . mr. jenkin . now though such civil eating was to be forborn , yet it follows not at all , much less much more , that religious eating is forbidden : because , civil eating is arbitrary and unnecessary ; not so religious , which is enjoyned , and a commanded duty . pag. 36. mr. brinsley . if we may not have civil , much less religious communion . ans . not so neither ; inasmuch as the one is arbitrary and voluntary , the other a necessary communion . pag. 45. mr. jenkin . it should be our care to prevent separation : to this end , 1. labour to be progressive in the work of mortification . pag. 38. mr. brinsley . how shall this vnity be attained ? 1. to this end labour after new hearts . mr. jenkin . 2. admire no mans person . — this caused the corinthian schism . take heed of man-worship . mr. brinsley . how may schism be prevented ? 6. take heed of having the persons of men in admiration . this occasioned all those divisions in the church of corinth . — take we heed how we look too much at men. p. 59. mr. jenkin . 3. labour for experimental benefit by the ordinances . — find the setting up of christ in your hearts by the ministry , and then you will not dare to account it antichristian . if with jacob , we could say of our bethels , god is here , we would set up pillars . mr. brinsley . 4. labour to see and acknowledge god in our congregations . — now if he be here , how dare any withdraw ? when jacob apprehended god present with him at bethel , ( surely the lord is in this place . ) he sets up his pillar there . — have we met with him ? why do we not set up our pillar here ? pag. 58. mr. jenkin . 4. neither give nor receive scandals . give them not , to occasion others to separate ; nor receive them , to occasion thy own separation . — construe doubtful matters charitably . look not upon blemishes with multiplying-glasses , or old mens spectacles : hide them , though not imitate them . sport not your selves with others nakedness . mr. brinsley . 3. take heed of scandals , whether of giving or receiving : of giving , to drive off others ; of receiving , to set off our selves . — doubtful matters still construe them on the better part ; so doth charity ; not looking upon blemishes with multiplying or magnifying-glasses . — so far as may be without sin , hide them . — cursed cham espies the nakedness of his father , and makes sport with it . pag. 56. mr. jenkin . 5. be not much taken with novelties . new-lights have set this church on fire . for the most part they are taken out of the dark-lanthorns of old hereticks . they are false and fools-fires , to lead men into the precipice of separation . love truth in an old dress ; let not antiquity be a prejudice against , nor novelty an inducement to the entertainment of truth . mr. brinsley . 2. be not over-affected with novelties . — as for those new-lights which have set this kingdom on fire at this day , for the most part they are no other than what have been taken out of the dark-lanthorns of former hereticks , — no other but ignes fatui , false fires , useful onely to mislead . — tr th is lovely , and ought to be embraced in whatever dress she cometh , whether new or old . as not antiquity ▪ so neither should novelty be any prejudice to verity . mr. jenkin . 6. give not way to lesser differences : a little division will soon rise up to a greater . small wedges make way for bigger . our hearts are like to tinder , a little spark will enflame them . be jealous of your hearts . — paul and barnabas separated about a small matter , the taking of an associate . pag. 40 , &c. mr. brinsley . 1. take heed of lesser divisions . small wedges make way for great ones . small differences sometimes rise to divisions . pag. 57. mr. brinsley . 4. b● jealous over our own he●rts ; they being like unto tinder , ready to take fire by the least spark . — it was no great matter that paul and barnabas differed vpon , onely about the taking of an associate . pag. 71 , &c. now , sir , by this you may perceive , how some men do make their books and sermons , and by what ways a man may rise to the reputation of being a considerable author : he may cull and pick , pilfer and steal , and become learned to a miracle , an excellent preacher , and write even to a folio ; and if he had but the art of keeping men from poring into neglected authors , and prying into books that are cast into corners , might pass as such : but as long as what is forgotten in one age , is revived in another , and as long as it is become a trade to collect pamphlets , i would advise your friend to be more wary for the future , and keep from writing a folio and a comment again . and now , sir , it is high time for me to conclude , to whom it is no pleasure to deal in such a way , and to converse with those kind of books that you see my design hath put me upon . it is charity to you and the world that hath led me along ; and i hope i have so managed it , as shall be to the offence of none , but those that are enemies to truth : i am sure i have so much avoided all that might exasperate , that i have for that reason cast aside leaves of what some others might be tempted to have taken in . if mr. jenkin hath been hardly dealt with , he must thank himself , who 〈◊〉 without provocation , defamed others , could not be suffered to run away with that out-cry which he hath made , without a just rebuke . i am , ( sir ) your servant , s. r. finis . advertisement . the right of tythes asserted and proved , from divine institution , primitive practice , voluntary donations , and positive laws . with a just vindication of that sacred maintenance from the cavils of thomas elwood , in his pretended answer to the friendly conference . printed for e. croft at the seven stars in little lumbard-street . a review of the true nature of schisme, with a vindication of the congregationall churches in england, from the imputation thereof unjustly charged on them by mr d. cawdrey, preacher of the word at billing in northampton-shire. / by john owen d.d. owen, john, 1616-1683. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a90287 of text r203102 in the english short title catalog (thomason e1664_1). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 225 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 94 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a90287 wing o803 thomason e1664_1 estc r203102 99863179 99863179 115364 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a90287) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 115364) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 208:e1664[1]) a review of the true nature of schisme, with a vindication of the congregationall churches in england, from the imputation thereof unjustly charged on them by mr d. cawdrey, preacher of the word at billing in northampton-shire. / by john owen d.d. owen, john, 1616-1683. [6], 181, [1] p. printed by henry hall printer to the university, for thomas robinson., oxford, : m.dc.lvii. [1657] a defense of his "of schisme" in reply to "independencie a great schism" by daniel cawdrey. annotation on thomason copy: "7ber [i.e. september] 25". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng owen, john, 1616-1683. -of schisme -early works to 1800. cawdrey, daniel, 1588-1664. -independencie a great schism -early works to 1800. congregationalism -apologetic works -early works to 1800. schism -early works to 1800. a90287 r203102 (thomason e1664_1). civilwar no a review of the true nature of schisme,: with a vindication of the congregationall churches in england, from the imputation thereof unjustl owen, john 1657 38464 23 75 0 0 0 0 25 c the rate of 25 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-04 john latta sampled and proofread 2008-04 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a review of the true nature of schisme , with a vindication of the congregationall churches in england , from the imputation thereof unjustly charged on them by mr d. cawdrey , preacher of the word at billing in northampton-shire . by john owen d. d. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . 2 tim. 2. 24. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} : tit. 1. 7. oxford , printed by henry hall printer to the university , for thomas robinson . m. dc . lvii . christian reader . it is now about three weekes since , that there was sent unto me , a book intituled , independency a great schisme ; as the frontispeece farther promiseth , undertaken to be mannaged against something written by me , in a treatise about the true nature of schisme , published about a yeare agoe ; with an addition of a charge of inconstancy in opinion , upon my selfe : of the one , and the other , the ensueing discourse will give a farther and full account . coming unto my hands at such a season , wherein , as it is knowne , i was pressed with more then ordinary occasions of sundry sorts , i thought to have deferred the examination of it , untill farther leasure might be obtained , supposing that some faire advantage would be administred by it , to a farther christian debate , of that discovery of truth , and tender of peace , which in my treatise i had made . engaging into a cursory perusall of it , i found the reverend authors designe , and discourse , to be of that tendency , and nature , as did not require , nor would admit of any such delay : his manifold mistakes in apprehending the intention of my treatise and of the severalls of it his open presumption of his owne principles , as the sourse and spring of what pretends to be argumentative in his discourse , arbitrarily inferring from them , without the least attempt of proofe , whatever tenders its assistance to cast reproach on them with whom he hath to do , his neglect in providing a defence for himselfe by any principles not easily turned upon him , against the same charge which he is pleased to mannage against me : his avowed laying the foundation of his whole fabrick , in the sand of notoriously false suppositions , quickly delivered me from the thoughts of any necessity to delay the consideration of what he tendred to make good the title of his discourse . the open and manifest injury done , not only to my selfe , in laying things to my charge which i know not , lading me with reproaches , tending to a rendring of me odious to all the ministers and churches in the world , not agreeing with me in somefew things concerning gospell administrations , but also to all other churches and persons of the same judgment with my selfe , called for a speedy account of the true state of the things contended about . thou hast therefore here christian reader the product ( through the grace of him who supplyeth seed to the sower ) of the spare houres of foure or five daies , in which space of time this ensuing discourse was begun and finished : expect not therefore any thing from it , but what is necessary for the refutation of the book , whereunto it is opposed ; and as to that end and purpose , i leave it to thy strictest judgment . only i shall desire thee to take notice , that having kept my selfe to a bare defence , i have resolvedly forborne all recharge on the presbyterian way , either as to the whole of it , whence by way of distinction it is so called , or as to the differences in judgment and practise of them who professe that way , among themselves , which at this day , both in this and the neighbour nation , are more and greater , then any that our author hath as yet been able to find amongst them whom he doth principally oppose . as the ensuing sheets were almost wrought of at the presse , there came to my hand a vindication of that eminent servant of god ▪ mr john cotton , from the unjust imputations and charge of the reverend person with whom i have now to do , written by himselfe not long before his death ; the opportunity of publishing that discourse , with the ensueing , being then lost , i thought meet to let the reader know , that a short season will furnish him with it . farewell , and love , truth , and peace . ch : ch : coll : oxon : july : 9. 1657. a vindication of the treatise about the true nature of schisme . &c. chap. 1. the present state of things in the christian world , will on a slight consideration yeeld this account of controversies in religion ; that when they are driven to such an issue , as by forraigne coincidences to be rēdered the interest of parties at variance , there is not any great successe to be obtained by a mannagement of thē , though with never so much evidence and conviction of truth . an answering of the profession that is on us , by a good and lawfull meanes , the paying of that homage and tribute we owe to the truth , the tendring of assistance to the safe-guarding of some weaker professours thereof , from the sophismes and violence of adversaries , is the most that in such a posture of things , the most sober writers of controversies can well aime at . the winning over of men to the truth we seeke to maintaine , where they have beene preingaged in an opposition unto it , without the alteration of the outward state of things , whence their engagements have insensibly sprung and risen , is not ordinarily to be expected . how farre i was from any such thoughts in the composing and publishing my treatise of the nature of schisme , i declared in sundry passages in the treatise its selfe . though the thing contended about , whatsoever is pretended to the contrary , will not be found amongst the most important heads of our religion , yet knowing how farre on sundry accounts the stated , fixed interest of severall sorts of men , ingageth them to abide by the principles they owne in reference thereunto ▪ i was so farre from hoping to see speedily any visible fruits of the efficacie of the truth i had mannaged , that i promised my selfe a vigorous opposition , untill some urgent providence , or time , altering the frame of mens spirits should make way for its acceptance . freely i left it in the hand of him , whose truth , i have good security i had in weaknesse maintained , to dispose of it with its issues and events at his pleasure . i confesse knowing severall parties to be concerned in an opposition to it , i was not well able to conjecture from what hand the first assault of it would arise . probability cast it on them , who looked on themselves in the nearest proximitie of advantage by the common notion of schisme opposed . the truth is , i did apprehend my selfe not justly chargeable with want of charity , if i thought that opposition would arise from some other principles , than mere zeale for a supposed truth , and therefore tooke my aime in conjecturing at the prejudices that men might feare themselves and interests obnoxious unto by a reception and establishment of that notion of schisme , which i had asserted . mens contentednesse to make use of their quietnesse in reference to popery , socinianism , arminianism , daily vented amongst us , unlesse it were in some declamatory expressions against their toleration , which cost no more than they are worth , if shaken off by a speedy engagement against my treatise , confirmed such thoughts in mee . after therefore it had passed in the world for some season , and had found acceptance with many learned and godly persons , reports began to be raised about a designe for the refutation of it ; that so it should be dealt withall i heard was judged necessary at sundry conventions ; what particular hand it was likely the taske would fall upon , judging my selfe not concerned to know , i did not enquire . when i was informed how the disposall of the businesse did succeed , as i was not at all surprized in reference to the party in generall from which it did issue , so i did relieve my selfe under my fears , and loathing to be ingag'd in these contests by these ensuing considerations . 1. that i was fully perswaded that what i had written was for the substance of it the truth of god , and being concern'd in it only on truths account , if it could be demonstrated that the sentence i had asserted , was an unlawfull pretender thereunto , i should be delivered from paying any further respect or service to that , whereunto none at all was due . 2. that in the treatise its selfe so threatned , i had laid in provision against all contending about words , expressions , collaterall assertions , deductions , positions , all and every thing , though true , that might be separated from the life or substance of the notion , or truth pleaded for . 3. that whereas the whole weight of the little pile turned on one single hing , and that visible & cōspicuous , capable of an ocular demonstration , as to its confirmation or refutation , i promised my selfe that any man who should undertake the demolishing of it , would be so farre from passing that by , and setting himselfe to the superstruction , that subsists in its single strength and vigour , that indeed finding that one thing necessary for him , he would solely attempt that , and therein rest . this i knew was evident to any considering person that should but view the treatise , that if that foundation were cast downe , the whole superstructure would fall with its owne weight : but if left standing , an hundred thousand volumes against the rest of the treatise could not in the least prejudice the cause undertaken to be mannaged in it . men might indeed by such attempts manifest my weaknesse and want of skill , in making inferences and deductions from principles of truth , wherein i am not concern'd , but the truth its selfe contended for , would still abide untouched . 4. having expresly waved mans day , and judgement , i promised my selfe security from a disturbance by urging against me the authority of any , of old or late ; supposing that from the eviction of their severall interests , i had emancipated my my selfe from all subjection to their bare judgements in this cause . 5. whereas i had confin'd my selfe to a bare defensative of some , not intending to cast others from the place , which in their owne apprehensions they do enjoy , ( unlesse it was the roman party ) i had some expectations that peace-loving godly men , would not be troubled that an apparent immunity from a crime was without their prejudice or disadvantage manifested in behalfe of their brethren , nor much paine themselves to reinforce the charge accounted for . so that the bare notion of schisme , and the nature of it abstracted from the consideration of persons , would come under debate . indeed i questioned whether in that friendly composure of affections , which for sundry yeares hath been carrying on betweene sober and godly men of the presbyterian and congregationall judgement , any person of reall godlinesse would interest himselfe to blow the coale of dissension , and engage in new exasperations . i confesse i alwaies thought the plea of cicero for ligarius against tubero most unreasonable ; namely , that if he had told ( as he calls it ) an honest and mercifull lye in his behalfe , yet it was not the part of a man to refell it , especially of one who was accused of the same crime : but yet i must needs say , a prompt readinesse to follow most questionable accusations against honest defēsatives , frō good men unjustly accused by others of the same crime , i did not expect . i added this also in my thoughts , that the facility of tendring a discourse to the purpose , on the businesse under consideration , was obviated by its being led out of the common rode , wherin common place supplies would be of litle use to any that should undertake it : not once suspecting that any man of learning and judgment would make a returne unto it out of vulgar discourses about ministers calling , church government or the like . how farre these and the like considerations might be a releife unto my thoughts , in my feares of further controversiall ingagements , having the pressure of more business upō me than any one mā i know of my calling in the whole nation , i leave it to the judgment of them who love truth and peace . but what litle confidence i ought in the present posture of the minds of men , to have placed in any or all of them , the discourse vnder consideration hath instructed me : that any one thing hath fallen out according to my expectations and conjectures , but only its being a product of the men , of the perswasion owned therin , i am yet to seeke . the truth is i cannot blame my adversary viis et modis to make good the opposition he is ingaged in ; it concernes him and his advisers beyond their interest in the appearing skirts of this controversy . perhaps also an adjudged necessity of indeavoring a disreputation to my person and writings , was one ingredient in the undertaking . if so , the whole frame was to be carried on by correspondent medium's . but let the principles and motives to this discourse be what they will , it is now made publick , there being a warmer zeale acting therin , then in carrying on some other thinges , expected from the same hand . to what may seeme of importance in it , i shall with all ▪ possible plainesse give a returne . had the reverend author of it thought good , to have kept within the bounds , by me fixed , and candidly debated the notion proposed , abstracting from the provocations of particular applications , i should most willingly have taken paines for a further clearing and manifesting of the truth contended about . but the whole discourse wherewith i have now to do , is of another complexion , and the designe of it , of another tendency ; yea so mannaged sometimes , that i am ready to question whether it be the product and fruite of his spirit whose name it bears : for though he be an utter stranger to me , yet i have received such a character of him , as would raise mee to an expectation of any thing from him , rather then such a discourse . the reader will be able to perceive an account of these thoughts in the ensuing view of his treatise . 1. i am without any provocation intended , and i hope given , reviled from one end of it to the other ; and called , partly in down right termes , partly by oblique intimations , whose reflections are not to be waved , sathan , atheist ; sceptick , donatist , heretick , schismaticke , sectarie , pharisee , &c. and the closure of the book is merely an attempt to blast my reputation , whereof i shall give a speedy account . 2. the professed designe of the whole is to prove independency , as he is pleased to call it , which what it is , he declares not , nor ( as he mannages the businesse ) do i know , to be a great schisme , and that independents , ( by whom it is full well knowne whom he intends ) are schismaticks , sectaries , the troublers of england . so that it were happy for the nation , if they were out of it ; or discovering sanguinary thoughts in reference unto them ; and these kinds of discourses fill up the booke , almost from one end to the other . 3. no christian care doth seeme to have been taken , nor good conscience exercised from the beginning to the ending , as to imputation of any thing unto me , or upon mee , that may serve to help on the designe in hand . hence i think it is repeated neare an hundred times , that i deny their ministers to be ministers , & their churches to be churches , that i deny all the reformed churches in the world , but onely our owne ( as he calls them ) to be true churches , all which is notoriously untrue , contrary to my knowne judgement , professedly declared on all occasions , contrary to expresse affirmations in the booke he undertakes to confute , and the whole designe of the booke its selfe . i cannot easily declare my surprizall on this account . what am i to expect from others , when such reverend men as this author , shall by the power of prejudice be carried beyond all bounds of moderation , and christian tendernesse in offending ? i no way doubt but that sathan hath his designe in this whole businesse . he knowes how apt we are to fixe on such provocations , and to contribute thereupon to the increase of our differences . can he according to the course of things in the world , expect any other issue , but that in the necessary defensative i am put upon , i should not wave such reflexions and retortions on him , and them with whom i have to do , as present themselves with as faire pleas , and pretences unto me , as it is possible for me to judge , that the charges before mentioned ( i meane of schisme , heresie , and the like ) did unto him . for as to a returne of any thing in its owne nature false and untrue , as to matter of fact , to meet with that of the like kind wherewith i am entertained , i suppose the divell himselfe was hopelesse to obtaine it . is he not filled with envie to take notice in what love without dissimulation i walk with many of the presbyterian judgment ? what christian entercourse , and communion i have with them in england , scotland , holland , france , fearing that it may tend to the furtherance of peace & union among the churches of christ ? god assisting i shall deceive his expectations , and though i be called schismatick , and heretick a thousand times , it shall not weaken my love or esteeme , of , or towards any of the godly ministers , or people of that way and judgment with whom i am acquainted , or have occasion of converse . and for this reverend author himself , i shall not faile to pray , that none of the things , whereby he hath , i feare , administred advantage unto satan to attempt the exasperations of the spirits of brethren one against another , may ever be laid to his charge . for my owne part i professe in all sincerity , that such was my unhappinesse , or rather happinesse in the constant converse which in sundry places i have with persons of the presbyterian judgment , both of the english and scottish nation , utterly of another frame of spirit , then that which is now shewed , that untill i saw this treatise , i did not believe that there had remained in any one godly , sober , judicious person in england , such thoughts of heart in reference to our present differences , as are visible and legible therein : tantaené animis coelestibus irae ? i hope the reverend author will not be offended , if i make bold to tell him , that it will be no joy of heart to him one day , that he hath taken paines to cast oyle on those flames , which it is every ones duty to labour to extinguish . but that the whole matter in difference may be the better stated and determined , i shall first passe through with the generall concernments of the book it selfe , and then consider the severall chapters of it , as to any particulars in them that may seem to relate to the businesse in hand . it may possibly not a little conduce towards the removall of those obstructions unto peace and love , laid in our way by this reverend author , and to a clearer stating of the controversie ▪ pretended to be ventilated in his discourse , to discover and lay aside those mistakes of his , which being interwoven with the main discourse from the beginning to the end , seeme as principles to animate the whole , and to give it that life of trouble , whereof it is partaker . some of them were , as absolutely considered , remarked before ; i shall now renew the mention of them , with respect to that influence which they have into the argumentative part of the treatise under consideration . 1. first then it is strenuously supposed all along , that i deny all , or any churches in england , to be true churches of christ , except only the churches gathered in the congregationall way , and upon their principles : then that i deny all the reformed churches beyond the seas to be true churches of christ . this supposition being laid , as the foundation of the whole building , a confutation of my treatise is fixed thereon , a comparison is instituted betweene the donatists and my selfe : arguments are produced to prove their churches to be true churches , and their ministers true ministers . the charge of schisme on this bottome is freely given out and asserted , the proofe of my schismaticall separation from hence deduced , and many termes of reproach are returned as a suitable reply to the provocation of this opinion . how great a portion of a small treatise may easily be taken up with discourses relating to these heads , is easie to apprehend . now lest all this paines should be found to be uselesse , and causlesly undergone , let us consider how the reverend author proves this to be my judgment . doth he evince it from any thing deliver'd in that treatise he undertakes to confute ? doth he produce any other testimonies out of what i have spoken , deliver'd , or written else where , and on other occasions to make it good ? this i suppose he thought not of , but took it for granted , that either i was of that judgment , or it was fit i should be so , that the difference between us might be as great , as he desired to have it appeare to be . well to put an end to this controversie , seeing he would not believe , what i told the world of my thoughts herein in my book of schisme , i now informe him again , that all thes surmises are fond & untrue . and truly for his own sake with that respect which is due to the reputation of religion , i here humbly intreate him not to entertain what is here affirm'd with un-christian surmizes , which the apostle reckons amongst the works of the flesh , as though i were of another mind but durst not declare it , as more then on●● in some particulars he insinuates the state of things with me to be . but blessed be the god of my salvation , and of all my deliverances , i have yet liberty to declare the whole of my judgment in and about the things of his worship . blessed be god , it is not as yet in the power of some men to bring in that their conceited happiness into england , which would in their thoughts accrew unto it , by my removall from my native soyle , with all others of my judgment and perswasion . we are yet at peace , and we trust that the lord will deliver us from the hands of men , whose tender mercies are cruell . however be it known unto them that if it be the will of the lord upon our manifold provocations to give us up to their disposall , who are pleased to compasse us with the ornaments of reproaches before mentioned , that so we might fall as a sacrifice to rage or violence , we shall through his assistance and presence with us , dare to professe the whole of that truth , and those waies of his , which he hath been pleased to revea● unto us . and if on any other account this reverend person suppose i may foster opinions and thoughts of mine owne and their waies which i dare not owne , let him at any time give me a command to waite upon him , and as i will freely and candidly answer to any enquiries he shall be pleased to make after my judgment , and apprehensions of these things , so he shall find that ( god assisting ) i dare owne , and will be ready to maintaine what i shall so deliver to him . it is a sufficient evidence that this reverend author is an utter stranger to me , or he would scarce entertaine such surmizes of me as he doth . shall i call in witnesses as to the particular under consideration ? one evidence by way of instance lies so neare at hand , that i cannot omit the producing of it : not above 14 daies before this treatise came to my hands , a learned gentleman whom i had prevailed withall to answer in the vespers of our act , sent me his questions by a doctor of the presbyterian judgment , a friend of his , and mine . the first question was , as i remember , to this purpose : utrū ministri ecclesiae anglicanae habeant validam ordinationem ; i told the doctor , that since the questions were to passe under my approbation , i must needs confesse my selfe scrupled at the limitation of the subject of the question in that terme ecclesia anglicana , which would be found ambiguous and aequivocall in the disputation ; and therefore desired that he would rather supply it with ecclesiarum reformatarum , or some other expression of like importance , but as to the thing it selfe aimed at , namely the assertion of the ministry of the godly ministers in england , i told him and so now do the reverend author of this treatise , that i shall as willingly ingage in the defence of it , with the lawfulnesse of their churches , as any man what ever . i have only in my treatise questioned the institution of a nationall church , which this author doth not undertake to maintaine , nor indeed hath the least reason so to do , for the asserting of true ministers and churches in england ; i meane those of the presbyterian way . what satisfaction now this reverend author shall judge it necessary for him to give me , for the publicke injury which voluntarily he hath done me , in particular for his attempt to expose me to the censure and displeasure of so many godly ministers and churches as i owne in england , as a person denying their ministry , and church station , i leave it to himselfe to consider . and by the declaration of this mistake how great a part of his book is waved as to my concernments therein , himsefe full well knows . a second principle of like importance which he is pleased to make use of , as a thing granted by me , or at least which he assumes , as that which ought so to be , is that what ever the presbyterian ministers and churches be , i have separated from them , as have done all those whom he calls independants . this is another fountaine out of which much bitter water flows . hence we must needs be thought to condemne their ministry and churches . the brownists were our fathers , and the anabaptists are our elder brothers , we make an harlot of our mother , and are schismaticks and sectaries from one end of the book to the other . quod erat demonstrandum . but doth not this reverend author know that this is wholly denyed by us ? is it not disproved sufficiently in that very treatise which he undertakes to answer ? he grants , i suppose , that the separation he blames , must respect some union of christs institution : for any other , we professe our selves unconcerned in its maintenance , or dissolution , as to the businesse in hand . now wherein have we separated from them as to the breach of any such union ? for an individuall person to change from the constant participation of ordinances in one congregation , to do so in another , barely considered in its selfe , this reverend author holds to be no separation . however for my part , who am forced to beare all this wrath and storme , what hath he to lay to my charge ? i condemne not their churches in generall , to be no churches , nor any one that i am acquainted withall in particular . i never disturb'd , that i know of , the peace of any one of them , nor separated from them ; but having already received my punishment , i expect to heare my crime by the next returne . 3. he supposeth throughout that i deny not only the necessity of a successive ordination , but as farre as i can understand him , the lawfulnesse of it also . by ordination of ministers many upon a mistake understand onely the imposition of hands that is used therein . ordination of ministers is one thing , and imposition of hands another , differing as whole and part ; ordination in scripture compriseth the whole authoritative translation of a man from among the number of his brethren into the state of an officer in the church . i suppose he doth not thinke that this is denied by mee , though he tels me with the same christian candor , and tendernesse , which he exerciseth in every passage almost of his booke , of making my selfe a minister , and i know not what ; i am , i blesse the lord , extreamly remote from returning him any of his own coyne in satisfaction for this love . for that part of it which consists in the imposition of hands by the presbytery , ( where it may be obtained according to the mind of christ . ) i am also very remote from mannaging any opposition unto it . i thinke it necessary by vertue of precept , and that to be continued in a way of succession . it is , i say , according to the mind of christ , that he who is to be ordained unto office in any church , receive imposition of hands from the elders of that church , if there be any therein . and this is to be done in a way of succession , that so the churches may be perpetuated . that alone which i oppose is the denying of this successive ordination , through the authority of antichrist . before the blessed and glorious reformation , begun ●nd carried on by zuinglius , luther , calvin , and others , there were , and had been two states of men in the world , professing the name of christ , and the gospell , as to the outward profession thereof . the one of them in glory , splendor , outward beauty , and order , calling themselves the church , the only church in the world , the catholike church ; being indeed , and in truth in that state wherein they so prided themselves the mother of harlots , the beast , with his false prophet . the other party poore , despised , persecuted , generally esteemed and called hereticks , schismaticks , or as occasion gave advantage for their farther reproach , waldenses , albigenses , lollards , and the like . as to the claime of a successive ordination down from the apostles , i made bold to affirme , that i could not understand the validity of that successive ordination , as successive , which was derived downe unto us from , and by the first partie of men in the world . this reverend authors reply hereunto , is like the rest of his discourse , pag. 118. he tels me , this casts dirt in the face of their ministry , as do all their good friends the sectaries , and that he hath much a doe to forbeare saying , the lord rebuke thee . how he doth forbeare it , having so expressed the frame of his heart towards me , others will judge : the searcher of all hearts knowes , that i had no designe to cast dirt on him , or any other godly man's ministry in england . might not another answer have been returned without this wrath : this is so , or it is not so , in reference to the ministry of this nation . if it be not so , and they plead not their successive ordination from rome , there is an end of this difference . if it be so , can mr. c. hardly refraine from calling a man sathan , for speaking the truth ? it is well if we know of what spirit we are . but let us a little farther consider his answer in that place . he asketh first , why may not this be a sufficient foundation for their ministry , as well as for their baptisme ? if it be so , & be so acknowledged , whence is that great provocation that arose from my enquiry after it : for my part i must tell him , that i judge their baptisme good and valid , but to deale clearly with him , not on that foundation . i cannot believe , that that idolater , murtherer , man of sin , had , since the dayes of his open idolatry , persecution , and enmity to christ , any authority more or lesse from the lord jesus committed to him , in or over his churches . but he addes , secondly , that had they received their ordination from the woman flying into the wildernesse , the two witnesses , or waldenses , it had been all one to mee , and my party ; for they had not their ordination from the people ( except some extraordinary cases ) but from a presbytery , according to the institution of christ . so then , ordination by a presbytery , is it seemes opposed by me and my party ; but i pray sir , who told you so ? when , wherein , by what meanes have i opposed it ? i acknowledge my selfe of no party . i am sory so grave a minister should suffer himselfe to be thus transported , that every answer , every reply , must be a reflection , and that without due observation of truth and love . that-those first reformers had their ordination from the people , is acknowledged ; i have formerly evinced it by undeniable testimony . so that the proper succession of a ministry amongst the churches that are their off-spring , runs up no higher than that rise . now the good lord blesse them in their ministry , and the successive ordination they enjoy , to bring forth more fruit in the earth to the praise of his glorious grace . but upon my disclaiming all thoughts of rejecting the ministry of all those , who yet hold their ordination on the accompt of its successive derivation from rome , he cries out , egregiam verò laudem , and saies that yet i secretly derive their pedigree from rome : well then he doth not so ; why then , what need these exclamations ? we are as to this matter wholly agreed ; nor shall i at present farther pursue his discourse in that place , it is almost totally composed and made up of scornefull revilings , reflections , and such other ingredients of the whole . he frequently & very positively affirms without the least hesitation , that i have renounced my own ordination , & adds hereunto , that what ever else they pretend , unlesse they renounce their ordination , nothing will please me . that i condemn all other churches in the world as no churches ; but who i pray told him these things ? did he enquire so far after my mind in them , as without breach of charity to be able to make such positive and expresse assertions concerning them ? a good part of his book is taken up in the repetition of such things as these , drawing inferences and conclusions from the suppositions of them , and warming himselfe by them into a great contempt of my selfe and party , as he calls them . i am now necessitated to tell him , that all these things are false , and utterly , in part and in whole untrue , and that he is not able to prove any one of them . and whether this kind of dealing becomes a minister of the gospell , a person professing godlinesse , i leave it to himselfe to judge . for my owne part i must confesse that as yet i was never so dealt withall by any man , of what party soever , although it hath been my unhappinesse to provoke many of them . i do not doubt but that he will be both troubled and ashamed when he shall review these things . that whole chapter , which he entitles , independentisme is donatisme , as to his application of it unto me , or any of my perswasion , is of the same importance , as i have sufficiently already evinced . i might instance in sundry other particulars , wherein he ventures without the least check or supposition , to charge me with what he pleaseth , that may serve the turn in hand ; so that it may serve to bring in , he and his party are schismaticks , are sectaries , have separated from the church of god , are the cause of all our evills and troubles , with the like tearmes of reproach , and hard censures , lying in a faire subserviency to a designe of widening the difference between us , and mutually exasperating the spirits of men , professing the gospell of jesus christ , one against another , nothing almost comes amisse . his sticking upon by matters , diverting from the maine business in hand , answering arguments by reflections , and the like , might also be remarked . one thing wherein he much rejoyceth , and fronts his book with the discovery he hath made of it , namely concerning my change of judgment as to the difference under present debate , which is the substance and designe of his appendix , must be particularly considered , and shall be , god assisting , in the next chapter accordingly . chap. 2. an answer to the appendix of mr. c● . charge . though perhaps impartiall men will be willing to give me an acquitment from the charge of altering my judgment in the matters of our present difference , upon the generall account of the copartnership with me of the most inquiring men in this generation , as to things of no lesse importance ; and though i might against this reverend brother and others of the same mind and perswasion with him , at present relieve my selfe sufficiently by a recrimination , in reference to their former episcopall engagements , and sundry practices in the worship of god them attending , pleading in the meane time the generall issue of changing from error to truth , ( which that i have done as to any change i have really made , i am ready at any time to mainetaine to this author ) yet it being so much insisted upon by him as it is , and the charge thereof in the instance given , accompanied with so many evill surmisings , and uncharitable reflections , looking like the fruits of another principle then that whereby we ought in the mannagement of our differences to be ruled , i shall give a more particular account of that , which hath yeilded him this great advantage . the sole instance insisted on by him , is a small treatise published long agoe by me , intitled , the duty of pastors and people distinguished ; wherein i professe my selfe to be of the presbyterian judgment . excerpta out of that treatise , with animadversions and comparisons thereon , make up the appendix , which was judged necessary to be added to the book , to help on with the proofe that independency is a great schisme : had it not been indeed needfull to cause the person to suffer , as well as the thing , some suppose this paines might have been spared . but i am not to prescribe to any , what way it is meet for them to proceed in , for the compassing of their ends aimed at . the best is , here is no new thing produced , but what the world hath long since taken notice of , and made of it the worst they can . neither am i troubled that i have a necessity laid upon me to give an account of this whole matter . that little treatise was written by me in the yeare 1643 , and then printed , however it received the addition of a yeare in the date affixed to it by the printers , which for their owne advantage is a thing usuall with them . i was then a young man my selfe , about the age of 26. or 27. yeares . the controversie between independencie and presbytery was young also ; nor indeed by mee clearly understood , especially as stated on the congregationall side . the conceptions delivered in the treatise were not ( as appeares in the issue ) suited to the opinion of the one party , nor of the other ; but were such as occurred to mine owne naked consideration of things , with relation to some differences that were then upheld in the place where i lived , only being unacquainted with the congregationall way , i professed my selfe to owne the other party , not knowing but that my principles were suited to their judgement and profession ; having looked very little further into those affaires , then i was led by an opposition to episcopacy & ceremonies . upon a review of what i had thē asserted , i found that my principles were far more suited to what is the judgment and practice of the congregationall men , then those of the presbiterian . only whereas i had not received any farther cleare information in these waies of the worship of god , which since i have been ingaged in , as was said , i professed my selfe of the presbyterian judgment , in opposition to democraticall confusion ; and indeed so i do still ; and so do all the congregationall men in england , that i am acquainted withall ▪ so that when i compare what then i wrote with my present judgment , i am scarce able to find the least difference between the one and the other ; only a misapplication of names and things by me , gives countenance to this charge . indeed not long after , i set my selfe seriously to enquire into the controversies then warmly agitated in these nations . of the congregationall way i was not acquainted with any one person , minister or other ; nor had i to my knowledg seen any more then one in my life . my acquaintance lay wholly with ministers , and people of the presbyterian way . but sundry books being published on either side , i perused , and compared them with the scripture , and one another , according as i received ability from god . after a generall view of them , as was my manner in other controverses , i fixed on one to take under peculiar consideration , and examination , which seemed most methodically , and strongly to maintaine that which was contrary as i thought to my present perswasion . this was mr. cotton's book of the keyes . the examination and confutation hereof , meerly for my owne particular satisfaction , with what diligence , and sincerity i was able , i ingag'd in . what progresse i made in that undertaking , i can manifest unto any , by the discourses on that subject , and animadversions on that book yet abiding by me . in the pursuit and management of this work , quite besides , and contrary to my expectation , at a time , and season wherein i could expect nothing on that account but ruine in this world , without the knowledge or advice of , or conference with any one person of that judgment , i was prevailed on to receive that and those principles , which i had thought to have set my selfe in an opposition unto . and indeed this way of impartiall examining all things by the word , comparing causes with causes , and things with things , laying aside all prejudicate respects unto persons , or present traditions , is a course that i would admonish all to beware of , who would avoid the danger of being made independents . i cannot indeed deny , but that it is possible i was advantaged in the disquisition of the truth i had in hand , from my former imbracing of the principles laid down in the treatise insisted on ; now being by this means setled in the truth , which i am ready to maintaine to this reverend and learned auhor , if he , or any other suppose they have any advantage hereby against me , as to my reputation , which alone is sought in such attempts as this : or if i am blameably liable to the charge of inconstancy , and inconsistency with my owne principles , which he thought meet to front his book withall , hereupon i shall not labour to devest him of his apprehension , having abundant cause to rejoice in the rich grace of a mercifull and tender father , that men seeking occasion to speake evill of so poor a worme , tossed up and down in the midst of innumerable temptations , i should be found to fix on that , which i know will be found my rejoicing in the day of the lord jesus . i am necessitated to adde somewhat also to a surmise of this reverend man , in reference to my episcopall compliances in former daies , and strict observation of their canons . this indeed i should not have taken notice of , but that i find others besides this author pleasing themselves with this apprehension , and endeavoring an advantage against the truth i professe thereby . how little some of my adversaries are like to gaine , by branding this as a crime is known ; and i professe i know not the conscience , that is exercised in this matter . but to deliver them once for all from involving themselves in the like unchristian procedure hereafter , let them now know what they might easily have known before ; namely , that this accusation is false , a plain calumny , a ly . as i was bred up from my infancy under the care of my father , who was a non-conformist all his daies , & a painfull labourer in the vineyard of the lord ; so ever since i came to have any distinct knowledge of the things belonging to the worship of god , i have been fixed in judgment against that which i am calumniated withall ; which is notoriously known to all that have had any acquaintance with me ; what advantage this kind of proceeding is like to bring to his owne soule , or the cause which he mannageth , i leave to himselfe to judge . thus in generall ; to take a view of some particular passages in the appendix destined to this good worke ; the first section tries with much wit and rhetorick to improve the pretended alteration of judgment to the blemishing of my reputation ; affirming it to be from truth to error ; which as to my particular , so farre as it shall appeare i am cōcern'd , ( i am little moved with the bare affirmation of men , especially if induced to it by their interest . i desire him to let me know when and where , i may personally wait upon him , to be convinced of it : in the mean time so much for that section : in the second , he declares what my judgment was in that treatise about the distance between pastors and people , and of the extreams that some men on each hand run into : and i now tell him , that i am of the same mind still , so that that note hath little availed him . in the third he relates what i delivered , that a man not solemnly called to the office of the ministry by any outward call , might do as to the preaching of the gospell in a collapsed church-state . unto this he makes sundry objections ; that my discourse is darke , not cleare , and the like ; but remembring that his businesse was not to confute that treatise also , but to prove from it my inconstancie , and inconsistencie with my selfe : he sayes , i am changed from what i then delivered : this is denied , i am punctually of the same judgment still : but he proves the contrary by a double argument . 1. because i have renounced my ordination . 2. because i thinke now , that not only in a compleat church-state , but when no such thing can be charged , that gifts and consent of the people is enough to make a man a preacher in office ; both untrue and false in fact . i professe i am astonished , to thinke with what frame of spirit , what neglect of all rules of truth and love this businesse is mannaged . in the fourth section , he chargeth me to have delivered somewhat in that treatise about the personall indwelling of the holy ghost in believers , and my words to that purpose are quoted at large . what then ? am i changed in this also ? no , but that is an error in the judgment of all that be orthodox : but that is not the businesse in hand , but the alteration of my judgment ; wherfore he makes a kind of exposition upon my words in that treatise , to shew that i was not then of the mind that i have now delivered my selfe to be of , in my book of schisme ; but i could easily answer the weakenesse of his exceptions , and pretended expositions of my former assertions , and evidence my consistency in judgment with my selfe in this businesse ever since ; but this he saith is an error which he gathered out of my book of schisme ; and some body hath sent him word from oxford that i preached the same doctrine at st. maries . i wish his informer had never more deceived him ; it is most true i have done so , and since printed at large what then i delivered , with sundry additions thereunto ; and if this reverend author shall think good to examine what i have published on that account , ( not in the way in this treatise proceeded in , which in due time will be abhorred of himself & all good men , but with candor , and a spirit of christian ingenuity and meeknesse , ) i shall acknowledg my selfe obliged to him ; and in the mean time i desire him to be cautious of large expressions , concerning all the orthodox , to oppose that opinion , seeing evidences of the contrary lie at hand in great plenty : and let him learne from hence how little his insulting in his book on this account is to be valued . sec. the 5. he shews that i then proved the name of priests not to be proper , or to be ascribed to the ministers of the gospell ; but that now ( as is supposed in scorne ) i call the ministers of their particular congregations parochiall priests ; untrue ! in the description of the prelaticall church i shewed what they esteemed and called parish ministers amongst them . i never called the presbyterian ministers of particular congregations parochiall priests . love truth and peace ; these things ought not thus to be . sec. the 6. he labours to find some difference in the tendency of severall expressions in that treatise , which is not at all to the purpose in hand , nor true as will appeare to any that shall read the treatise it selfe . in the 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. sec : he takes here and there a sentence out of the treatise and examins it , interlacing his discourse with untrue reflections , surmizes and prognostications : and in particular p. the 238 & 239. but what doth all this availe him in reference to his designe in hand ? not only before , but even since his exceptions to the things then delivered , i am of the same mind that i was , without the least alteration . and in the viewing of what i had then asserted , i find nothing strange to me , but the sad discovery of what frame of spirit the charge proceeded from . sec. 12. doth the whole worke ; there i acknowledge my selfe to be of the presbyterian judgment , and not of the independent or congregationall . had this reverend author thought meet to have confined his charge to this one quotation , he had prevented much evill that spreads it selfe over the rest of his discourse , and yet have attained the utmost of what he can hope for , from the whole ; and hereof i have already given an account . but he will yet proceed , and sec. 13. informe his reader that , in that treatise i aver , that two things are required in a teacher , as to formall ministeriall teaching . 1. gifts from god , 2 authority frō the church : well ! what then ? i am of the same mind still : but now i cry down ordination by presbytery , what , & is not this a great alteration and signe of inconstancy . truly , sir , there is more need of humiliation in your selfe , then triumphing against me ; for the assertion is most untrue , and your charge altogether groundlesse ; which i desire you would be satisfied in , and not to be led any more by evill surmises , to wrong mee , and your owne soule . he addes sect. 14. two cautions , which in that treatise i give to private christians in the exercise of their gifts , and closeth the last of them with a juvenile epiphonema , divinely spoken , and like a true presbyterian : and yet there is not one word in either of these cautions that i do not still own and allow ; which confirmes the unhappinesse of the charge . of all that is substantiall in any thing that followes , i affirme the same , as to all that which is gone before . onely as to the liberty to be allowed unto them which meet in private , who cannot in conscience joyne in the celebration of publike ordinances , as they are performed amongst us , i confesse my selfe to be otherwise minded at present , than the words there quoted by this author do expresse . but this is nothing to the difference between presbytery and independency : and he that can glory , that in 14. yeares , he hath not altered or improved in his conception of some things , of no greater importance then that mentioned , shall not have me for his rivall . and this is the summe of m● . c. appendix ; the discourse whereof being carried on with such a temper of spirit as it is , and suited to the advantage aimed at , by so many evill surmises , false suggestions , and uncharitable reflections , i am perswaded the taking of that paines , will one day be no joy of heart unto him . chap. 3. a review of the chargers preface . his first chapter consists for the most part , in a repetition of my words , or so much of the discourse of my first chapter as he could wrest , by cutting off one , and another parcell of it from its coherence in the whole , with the interposure of glosses of his own , to serve him to make biting reflexions upōthem with whom he hath to deale . how unbecoming such a course of procedure is , for a person of his worth , gravity and profession , perhaps his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , have by this time convinced him . if men have a mind to perpetuate controversies unto an endlesse , fruitlesse reciprocation of words and cavils , if to provoke to easie and facile retorsions , if to heighten and aggravate differences beyond any hope of reconciliation , they may do wel to deale after this manner with the writings of one another . mr. c. knowes how easie it were to make his owne words , dresse him up in all those ornaments wherein he labours to make me appeare in the world , by such glosses , inversions , additions , and interpositions , as he is pleased to make use of ; but meliora speramus . some particulars that seem to be of any importance to our businesse in hand , may be remarked as we passe through it : pag. 1. he tels us the donatists had two principles : 1. that they were the onely church of christ in a corner of africk , and left no church in the world but their owne . 2. that none were truly baptized , or entred members of the church of christ , but by some minister of their party . these principles , he saies , are againe improved by men of another party : whom though yet he name not , yet it is evident whom he intends : and pag : 3. he requires my judgement of those principles . because i would not willingly be wanting in any thing that may tend to his satisfaction , though i have some reason to conjecture at my unhappinesse in respect of the event : i shall with all integrity give him my thoughts of the principles expresséd above . 1. then , if they were considered in reference to the donatists who owned them , i say they were wicked , corrupt , erroneous principles , tending to the disturbance of the communion of saints , and everting all the rules of love , that our lord jesus christ hath given to his disciples , and servants to observe : if he intend my judgment of them in reference to the churches of england , which he calls independent , i am sorry that he should thinke he hath any reason to make this inquiry . i know not that man in the world who is lesse concerned in obteining countenance to those principles then i am . let them who are so ready on all occasions or provocations to cast abroad the solemne formes of reproach , schismaticks , sectaries , hereticks , and the like , search their owne hearts , as to a conformity of spirit unto these principles . it is not what men say , but what men doe , that they shall be judged by . as the donatists were not the first who in story were charged with schisme , no more was their schisme confined to africk . the agreement of multitudes in any principles , makes it in its selfe not one whit better , and in effect worse . for my part i acknowledge the churches in england , scotland and france , helvetia , the netherlands , germany , greece , muscovia , &c. as far as i know of them , to be true churches ; such for ought i know may be in italy or spaine ; and what pretence or colour this reverend person hath to fix a contrary perswasion upon me , with so many odious imputations and reflections , of being one of the restorers of all lost churches , and the like , i professe i know not . these things will not be peace in the latter end ; shall the sword devour for ever ? i dare not suppose that he will aske why then do i separate from them ? he hath read my booke of schisme , wherein i have undeniably proved , that i have separated from none of them , and i am loath to say , though i feare before the close of my discourse i shall be compelled to it , that this reverend author hath answered a matter before he understood it , & confuted a book , whose maine and chiefe designe he did not once apprehend . the rest of this chapter is composed of reflections upon me from my owne words wrested at his pleasure , and added to according to the purpose in hand , and the taking for granted unto that end that they are in the right , we in the wrong , that their churches are true churches , and yet not esteemed so by me , that we have separated from those churches , with such like easie suppositions . he is troubled that i thought the mutuall chargings of each other with schisme , between the presbyterians , and independents was as to its heat abated and ready to vanish : wherein he hath invincibly compelled me to acknowledge my mistake ; and i assure him i am heartily sorry that i was mistaken , it will not be some joy one day that i was so . he seems to be offended with my notion of schisme , because if it be true , it will carry it almost out of the world , and blesse the churches with everlasting peace . he tells me that a learned dr. said my book was one great schisme , i hope that is but one drs. opinion ; because being non-sence it is not fit it should be entertained by many . in the processe of his discourse he culls out sundry passages deliverd by me in reference to the great divisions and differences , that are in the world among men professing the name of christ , and applies them to the difference between the presbyterians and independents , with many notable lashes in his way ; when they were very little in my thoughts , nor are the things spoken by me in any tolerable measure applicable to them . i suppose no rationall man will expect , that i should follow our reverend author in such waies and pathes as these ; it were easie in so doing to enter into an endlesse maze of words , to little purpose , and i have no mind to deale with him as he hath done by me , i like not the copy so well as to write by it ; so his first chapter is discussed , and forgiven . chap. 4. of the nature of schisme . the second chapter of my booke , whose examination this author undertakes in the second of his , containing the foundation of many inferences that ensue , and in particular of that description of schisme which he intends to oppose , it might have been expected , that he should not have culled out passages at his pleasure to descant upon , but either have transcribed the whole , or at least under one view have laid downe clearly what i proposed to confirmation , that the state of the controversie being rightly formed , all might understand , what we say , and whereof we do affirme : but he thought better of another way of procedure , which i am now bound to allow him in ; the reason whereof he knowes , and other men may conjecture . the first words he fixes on are the first of the chapter . the thing whereof we treat being a disorder in the instituted worship of god ; whereunto he replyes , it is an ill signe or omen , to stumble at the threshold in going out : these words are ambiguous , and may have a double sence , either that schisme is to be found in matter of instituted worship onely , or onely in the differences made in the time of celebrating instituted worship , and neither of these is yet true , or yet proved , and so a mere begging of the thing in question : for saith he , schisme may be in , and about other matter besides instituted worship . what measure i am to expect for the future from this entrance or beginning , is not hard to conjecture . the truth is , the reverend author understood me not at all , in what i affirmed : i say not , that schisme in the church is either about instituted worship , or onely in the time of worship , but that the thing i treat of , is a disorder in the instituted worship of god , and so it is , if the being , and constitution of any church be a part of god's worship : but when men are given to disputing , they think it incumbent on them to question every word and expression , that may possibly give them an advantage : but we must , now we are engaged , take all in good part as it comes . having nextly granted my request of standing to the sole determination of scripture in the controversie about the nature of schisme : he insists on the scripture use and notion of the word , according to what i had proposed : only in the metaphoricall sense of the word , as applyed unto civill and politicall bodies , he endeavours to make it appeare , that it doth not only denote the difference and division that falls among them in judgement , but their secession also into parties ; which though he proves not from any of the instances produced , yet because he may not trouble himselfe any further in the like kind of needlesse labour ; i do here informe him that if he suppose that i deny that to be a schisme , where there is a separation , and that because there is a separation , as though schisme were in its whole nature exclusive of all separation , and lost its being when separation ensued , he hath taken my mind as rightly , as he hath done the whole designe of my booke , and my sense in his first animadversions on this chapter . but yet because this is not proved , i shall desire him not to make use of it for the future as though it were so . the first place urged is that of john 7. 43. there was a schisme among the people : it is not pretended that here was any separation : acts 14. 4. the multitude of the city was divided , that is , in their judgment about the apostles and their doctrine : but not only so , for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , is spoken of them , which expresses their separation into parties : what weight this new criticisme is like to finde with others , i know not , for my part i know the words inforce not the thing aymed at ; and the utmost that seemes to be intended by that expression , is the siding of the multitude , some with one , some with another , whilst they were all in a publique commotion , nor doth the context require any more . the same is the case , acts 23. 7. where the sadduces and pharisees were divided about paul , whilst abiding in the place where the sanedrim sate , being divided into parties long before : and in the testimony cited in my margent for the use of the word in other authors , the author makes even that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to stand in opposition , only to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} : nor was it any more . there was not among the people of rome , such a separation as to break up the corporation , or to divide the government , as is known from the story . the place of his owne producing , acts 19. 9. proves indeed that then and there , there was a separation , but as the author confesses in the margent , the word there used to expresse it hath no relation to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . applied to ecclesiasticall things , the reverend author confesses with me , that the word is onely used in the first epistle to the corinthians 1 cor. 19. ch. 11. 18. and therefore that from thence the proper use and importance of it is to be learned . having laid downe the use of the word to denote difference of mind and judgment , with troubles ensuing thereupon , amongst men met in some one assembly about the compassing of a common end and designe . i proceed to the particular accommodation of it , to church-rents and schisme in that solitary instance given of it in the church of corinth : what saies our authour hereunto ? sayes he , pag. 26. this is a fore-stalling the readers judgement , by a meer begging of the thing in question : as it hath in part been proved from the scripture its selfe , where it is used for separation into parties , in the politicall use of the word ; why it may not so be used in the ecclesiasticall sense , i see no reason : but if this be the way of begging the question , i confesse i know not what course to take to prove what i intend . such words are used sometimes in warm disputes causelessely ; it were well they were placed where there is some pretence for them ; certainly they will not serve every turne . before i asserted the use of the word , i instanced in all the places where it is used , and evinced the sense of it from them ? if this be begging , it is not that lazy trade of begging , which some use ; but such as a man had as good professedly worke as follow . how well he hath disproved this sense of the word from scripture we have seen , i am not concerned in his seeing no reason why it may not be used in the ecclesiasticall sense , according to his conception , my enquiry was how it was used , not how it might be used in this reverend authors judgment . and this is the substance of all that is offered to overthrow that principle , which if it abide and stand , he must needs confesse all his following pains to be to no purpose . he sees no reason but it may be as he saies . after the declaration of some such suspitions of his , as we are now wonted unto , and which we cannot deny him the liberty of expressing , though i professe he do it unto my injurie , he saies , this is the way on the one hand to free all church-separation from schisme , and on the other to make all particular churches more or lesse inschismaticall : well , the first is denyed ; what is offer'd for the confirmation of the second ? saith he , what one congregation almost is there in the world , where there are not differences of judgment whence ensue many troubles about the compassing of one common end and designe ; i doubt whether his owne be free therefore . if my testimony may remove his scruple , i assure him through the grace of god , hitherto it hath been so , and i hope it is so with multitudes of other churches , those with whome it is otherwise , it will appear at last to be more or lesse blameable on the account of schisme . omitting my farther explication of what i had proposed , he passes unto p. 27. of my book , and thence transcribes these words : they had differences among themselves about unnecessary things , on these they engaged into disputes and sidings even in the solemne assemblies , probably much vaine janglings , alienation of affections , exasperations of spirit , with a neglect of due offices of love ensued hereupon , whereunto he subjoines , that the apostle charges this upon them is true , but was that all ? were there not divisions into parties as well as in judgments ? we shall consider that ere long , but i am sorry he hath waved this proper place of the consideration of this important assertion ; the truth is , hic pes fig●ndus , if he remove not this position , he labours , in vain for the future . i desire also to know what he intends by divisions into parties ; if he intend that some were of one party , some of another , in these divisions and differences , it is granted : there can-be no difference in judgment amongst men , but they must on that account be divided into parties : but if he intend thereby , that they divided into severall churches , assemblies , or congregations , any of them setting up new churches on a new account , or separating from the publick assemblies of the church whereof they were , and that their so doing is reproved by the apostle under the name of schisme ; then i tell him that this is that indeed whose proofe is incumbent on him . faile he herein , the whole foundation of my discourse continues firme and unshaken ; the truth is , i cannot meet with any one attempt to prove this , which alone was to be proved , if he intended that i should be any farther concerned in his discourse , then onely to find my selfe revil'd and abused . passing over what i produce to give light and evidence unto my assertion , he proceeds to the consideration of the observations and inferences i make upon it . p. 29. and onward . the first he insists upon is , that the thing mentioned is entirely in one church , amongst the members of one particular society : no mention is made of one church divided against another , or separated from another . to this he replies 1. that the church of corinth , was a collective church , made up of many congregations , and that i my selfe confesse they had solemne assemhlies , not one assembly onely ; that i beg the question by taking it for one single congregation . but i suppose one particular congregation may have more then one solemne assembly , even as many , as are the times , wherein they solemnly assemble . 2. i supposed , i had proved that it was only one congregation , that used to assemble in one place , that the apostle charged this crime upon ; and that this reverend author was pleased to overlook what was produced to that purpose , i am not to be blamed . 3. here is another discovery , that this reverend person never yet clearly understood the designe of my treatise , nor the principles i proceed upon . doth he think it is any thing to my present businesse , whither the church of corinth were such a church as presbyterians suppose it to be , or such a one as the independents affirme it ? whilst all ackowledge it to be one church , be that particular church of what kind it will ; if the schisme rebuked by the apostle consisted in division in it , and not in separation from it as such , i have evinced all that i intended by the observation under consideration . yet this he againe persues , and tells me , that there were more particular churches in and about corinth , as that at cenchrea , and that their differences were not confined to the verge of one church ( for there were differences abroad out of the church ) and saies , that at unawares i confess that they disputed from house to house , and in the publick assemblies : but i will assure the reverend author i was aware of what i said : is it possible he should suppose that by the verge of one church i intended the meeting place , and the assembly therein ? was it at all incumbent on me , to prove that they did not manage their differences in private , as well as in publick ? is it likely any such thing should be ? did i deny that they sided and made parties about their divisions and differences ? is it any thing to me , or to any thing i affirme , how , where , and when , they managed their disputes , and debated their controversies ? it is true there is mention of a church at cenchrea , but is there any mention that that church made any separation from the church of corinth ? or that the differences mention'd were between the members of these severall churches ? is it any thing to my present designe , though there were 20 particular congregations in corinth , supposing that on any consideration they were one church ? i assure you sr. i am more troubled with your not understanding the business and designe i mannage , then i am with all your reviling termes , you have laden me withall . once for all ; unlesse you prove that there was a separation frō that church of corinth ( be it of what constitution it may by any be supposed ) as such , into another church , and that this is reproved by the apostle under the name of schisme , you speak not one word to invalidate the principle by me laid downe : and for what he addes ; that for what i say there was no one church divided against another , or separated from another , is assumed , but not proved unlesse by a negative , which is invallid ; he wrests my words : i say not , there was no such thing , but that there was no mention of any such thing : for though it be as cleare as the noone day , that indeed there was no such thing , it sufficeth my purpose that there was no mention of any such thing , and therefore no such thing reproved under the name of schisme . with this one observation , i might well dismisse the whole ensuing treatise , seeing of how litle use it is like to prove , as to the businesse in hand , when the author of it indeed apprehends not the principle which he pretends to oppose ; i shall once more tell him , that he abide not in his mistake , that if he intend to evert the principle here by me insisted on , it must be by a demonstration that the schisme charged on the corinthians by paul consisted in the separation from , and relinquishment of that church , whereof they were members , and congregating into another not before erected or established ; for this is that which the reformed churches are charged to do by the romanists , in respect of their churches , and accused of schisme thereupon . but the differences which he thinks good to mannage and maintain , with , and against the independents do so possesse the thoughts of this reverend author , that what ever occurres to him , is immediately measured by the regard which it seems to bear , or may possibly bear thereunto , though that consideration were least of all regarded in its proposall . the next observation upon the former thesis that he takes into his examination , so far as he is pleased to transcribe it , is this ; here is no mention of any particular man or number of men separating from the assembly of the whole church ) or subducting of themselves from its power ; only they had groundlesse causlesse differences amongst themselves ; hereunto our author variously replyes and saies , 1. was this all ? were not separations made , if not from that church , yet in that church as well as divisions ? let the scripture determine , chap. 1. 11. ch. 5. 3. i am a disciple of paul said one , and i a disciple of apollo said another : in our language ; i am a member of such a ministers congregation , saies one , such a man for my money : and so a third , and hereupon they most probably separated themselves into such and such congregations ; ana is not separation the ordinary issue of such envyings ? i doubt not but that our reverend author supposeth that he hath here spoken to the purpose , and matter in hand ; and so perhaps may some others think also . i must crave leave to enter my dissent upon the account of the insuing reasons ; for , 1. it is not separation in the church by mens divisions and differences whilst they continue members of the same church , that i deny to be here charged under the name of scisme , but such a separation from the church , as was before described ; 2. the disputes amongst them about paul and apollos , the instruments of their conversion cannot possibly be supposed to relate unto ministers of distinct congregations among them . paul and apollos were not so , and could not be figures of them that were ; so that those expressions do not at all answer those which he is pleased to make parallell unto them . 3. grant all this , yet this proves nothing to the cause in hand , men may crye up some the minister of one congregation , some of another , and yet neither of them separate from the one , or other , or the congregations themselves fall into any separation , wherefore ( 4 ) he saies , probably they separated into such and such congregations ; but this is most improbable ; for first , there is no mention at all of those many congregations that are supposed , but rather the contrary , as i have declared , is expressly asserted : 2. there is no such thing mentioned or intimated , nor , 3. are they in the least rebuked for any such thing , though the forementioned differences which are a lesse evill are reproved again , and againe , under the name of schisme : so that this most improbable improbability or rather vaine conjecture , is a very mean refuge and retreat from the evidence of expresse scripture , which in this place is alone inquired after-doth indeed the reverend author think , will he pretend so to do , that the holy apostle should so expresly , weightily , and earnestly , reprove their dissentions in the church , whereof they were members , and yet not speak one word , or give the least intimation of their separation from the church ; had there indeed been any such thing ? i dare leave this to the conscience of the most partially addicted person under heaven , to the authors cause , who hath any conscience at all ; nor dare i dwell longer on the confutation of this fiction , though it be upon the matter the whole of what i am to contend withall . but he farther informes us that ▪ there was a separation to parties in the church of corinth , at least as to one ordinance of the lords supper , as appears c. 11. v. 18 , 21 , 22 , 23. and this was part of their schisme . v. 16. and not long after they separated into other churches , sleighting and undervaluing the first ministers and churches , as nothing or lesse pure then their owne , which we see practised sufficiently at this day . a. were not this the head & seate of the first part of the controversie insisted on , i should not be able to prevaile with my selfe , to cast away precious time in the consideration of such things as these , being tendered as suitable to the businesse in hand ; it is acknowledged that there were differences amongst them , and disorders in the administration of the lords supper , that therein they used respect of persons , as the place quoted in the margin by our author , jam. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. manifests that they were ready to do in other places ; the disorder the apostle blames in the administration of the ordinances was , when they came together in the church , v. 18. when they came together in one place ; v. 20. there they tarried not one for another as they ought v. 33. but coming unprepared , some having eaten before , some being hungry v. 21. all things were mannaged with great confusion amongst them v. 22. and if this prove not , that the schisme they were charged withall consisted in a separation from that church with which they came together in one place , we are hopelesse of any farther evidence to be tendred to that purpose . that there were disorders amongst them in the celebration of the lords supper is certain ; that they separated into severall congregations on that account , or one from another , or any from all , is not in the least intimation signified ; but the plaine contrary shines in the whole state of things , as there represented : had that been done , and had so to do , been such an evill , as is pleaded , ( as causlesly to do it is no small evill ) it had not passed unreproved from him , who was resolved in the things of god , not to spare them . 2 that they afterwards fell into the separation aimed at to be asserted our reverend author affirmes , that so he may make way for a reflection on the things of his present disquietment ; but as we are not as yet concerning our selves , in what they did afterwards ; so when we are , we shall expect somewhat more then bare affirmations for the proofe of it : being more then ordinarily confident , that he is not able from the scripture , or any other story of credit , to give the least countenance to what he here affirmes . but now as if the matter were well discharged , when there hath not one word been spoken ; that in the least reaches the case in hand ; he saith 3. by way of supposition that there was but one single congregation at corinth ; yet ( said he ) the apostle dehorts the brethren from schisme , and writes to more then the church of corinth , ch. 1. v. 2. a. i have told him before , that though i am full well resolved that there was but one single congregation at corinth in those daies , yet i am not at all convinced as to the proposition under confirmatiō to assert any such thing , but will suppose the church to be of what kind my author pleaseth , whilst he will acknowledge it to be the particular church of corinth . i confesse the apostle dehorts the brethren from schisme , even others as well as those at corinth , so far as the church of god in all places , and ages , are concerned in his instructions and dehortations , when they fall under the case stated , parallel with that which is the ground of his dealing with them at corinth ; but what that schisme was from which he dehorts them , he declares only in the instance of the church of corinth : and thence is the measure of it to be taken , in reference to all dehorted from it . unto the 3d. observation added by me , he makes no returne , but only laies down some exceptions to the exemplification given of the whole matter , in another schisme that fell out in that church about 40 yeares after the composure of this , which was the occasion of that excellent epistle unto them from the church of rome , called the epistle of clement ; disswading them from persisting in that strife and contention , and pressing them to unity and agreement among themselves : some things our reverend author offers as to this instance , but so , as that i cannot but suppose , that he consulted not the epistle on this particular occasion ; and therefore now i desire him that he would do so , and i am perswaded he will not a second time give countenance to any such apprehension of the then state of the church , as though there were any separation made from it , by any of the members thereof , doeing or suffering the injury there complained of , about which those differences and contentions arose . i shall not need to go over againe the severalls of that epistle ; one word mentioned by my selfe , namely {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} he insists on , and informes us , that it implies a separation into other assemblies ; which he saies i waved to understand . i confesse i did so in this place , and so would he also , if he had once consulted it . the speech of the church of rome is there to the church of corinth , in reference to the elders whom they had deposed . the whole sentence is ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . and the words immediately going before are ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} : then follows that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; our author i suppose , understands greek , and so i shall spare my pains of transcribing mr. youngs latin translation ; or adding one in english of mine own ; and if he be pleased to read these words , i think we shall have no more of his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . if a faire opportunity call me forth to the farther mannagement of this controversy , i shall not doubt but from that epistle , and some other pieces of undoubted antiquity , as the epistle of the church of vienna and lyons , of smyrna , with some publick records of those daies , as yet preserved , worthy all of them to be written in letters of gold , to evince that state of the churches of christ in those daies , as will give abundant light to the principles i proceed upon in this whole businesse . and thus have i briefly vindicated what was proposed as the precise scripture notion of schisme , against which indeed not any one objection hath beenraised , that speaks directly to the thing in hand . our reverend author being full of warme affections against the independents , and exercised greatly in disputing the common principles which either they hold , or are supposed so to do ; measures every thing that is spoken , by his apprehension of those differences , wherein as he thinks their concernment doth lie : had it not bin for some such prejudice , ( for i am unwilling to ascribe it to more blameable principles ) it would have been almost impossible that he should have once imagined that he had made the least attempt towards the eversion of what i had asserted ; much lesse that he had made good the title of his book ▪ though he scarce forgets it , or any thing concerning it but its proofe , in any one whole leafe of his treatise . it remaines then that the nature and notion of schisme as revealed and described in the scripture , was rightly fixed in = my former discourse ; and i must assure this reverend author , that i am not afrighted from the embraceing and maintaining of it , with those scare crowes of new light ; singularity , and the like , which he is pleased frequently to set up to that purpose . the discourse that ensues in our author concerning a parity of reason , to prove that if that be schisme , then much more is separation so , shall afterwards if need be , be considered , when i proceed to shew what yet farther may be granted without the least prejudice of truth , though none can necessitate me to recede from the precise notion of the name and thing delivered in the scripture . i confess i cannot but marvell , that any man undertaking the examination of that treatise , and expressing so much indignation at the thoughts of my discourse , that lyeth in this businesse , should so sleightly passe over that , whereon he knew that i laid the great weight of the whole . hath he so much as indeavourd to prove , that that place to the corinthians , is not the only place wherein there is in the scripture any mention of schisme in an ecclesiasticall sense ; or that the church of corinth was not a particular church : is any thing of importance offerd to impaire the assertion that the evill reproved was within the verge of that church , and without separation from it ? and do i need any more to make good to the utmost that which i have asserted ; but of these things afterwards . in all that followes to the end of this chapter , i meet with nothing of importance that deserves farther notice ; that which is spoken is for the most part built upon mistakes ; as that when i speak of a member or the members of one particular church , i intend onely one single congregation exclusively to any other acceptation of that expression , in reference to the apprehension of others : that i denie the reformed churches to be true churches , because i denie the church of rome to be so ; and denie the institution of a nationall church , which yet our author pleads not for . he would have it for granted that because schisme consists in a difference among church members , therefore he that raises such a difference , whither he be a member of that church wherein the difference is raised , or of any other or no ( suppose he be a mahumetan or a jew ) is a schismatick ; pleads for the old definition of schisme , as suitable to the scripture , after the whole foundation of it is taken away : wrests many of my expressions ! as that in particular , in not making the matter of schisme to be things relating to the worship of god , to needlesse discourses about doctrine and discipline , not apprehending what i intended by that expression of the worship of god ; and i suppose it not advisable to follow him in such extravagancies . the usuall aggravations of schisme he thought good to reinforce , whither he hoped that i would dispute with him about them , i cannot tell . i shall now assure him that i will not , though if i may have his good leave to say so , i lay much more weight on those insisted on by my selfe , wherein i am encouraged , by his approbation of them . chap. 5. the third chapter of my treatise consisting in the preventing and removing such objections as the precedent discourse might seem lyable and obnoxious unto , is proposed to examination , by our reverend author , in the third chap. of his booke : and the objections mentioned undertaken to be managed by him , with what successe , some few considerations will evince . the first objection by me proposed was taken from the common apprehension of the nature of schisme , and the issue of stateing it as by me layd down ; namely hence it would follow that the separation of any man or men from a true church , or of one church from others is not schisme . but now waving for the present the more large consideration of the name & thing , which yet in the processe of my discourse i do condescend upon , according to the principle layd down ; i say that in the precise signification of the word , and description of the thing as given by the holy ghost this is true ; no such separation is in the scripture so called , or so accounted , whither it may not in a large sence be esteemed as such , i do not dispute , yea i afterwards grant it so farre , as to make that concession the bottome and foundation of my whole plea , for the vindication of the reformed churches from that crime . our reverend author reinforces the objection by sundry instances ; as , 1. that he hath disproved that sence or precise signisication of the word in scripture , how well let the reader judge . 2. that supposing that to be the onely sence mentioned in that case of the corinthians , yet may another sence be intimated in scripture and deduced by regular and rationall consequence : perhaps this will not be so easy an undertaking , this being the onely place where the name is mentioned , or thing spoken of in an ecclesiasticall sence : but when any proofe is tendred of what is here affirmed , we shall attend unto it . it is said indeed that if separation in judgment in a church be a schisme , much more to separate from a church ! but our question is about the precise notion of the word in scripture , and consequences from thence , not about consequents from the nature of things , concerning which if our author had been pleased to have staid a while , he would have found me granting as much as he could well desire . 3. 1 john 2. 19. is sacrificed {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and interpreted of schisme . where ( to make one venture in imitation of our author ) all orthodox interpreters , and writers of controversies expound it of apostacy ; neither will the context or arguing of the apostle admit of another exposition ; mens wresting of scripture to give countenance to inveterate errours is one of their worst concomitants ; so then that seperation from churches is oftentimes evill is readily granted : of what nature that evill is , with what are the aggravations of it , a judgment is to be made , from the pleas and pretences that its circumstances afford : so farr as it proceeds from such dissensions as before were mentioned , so far it proceeds from schisme , but in its own nature absolutely considered it is not so . to render my former assertions the more unquestionably evident , i consider the severall accounts given of mens blameable departures ' from any church , or churches mentioned in scripture , and manifest that none of them come under the head of schisme . apostasy , irregularly of walking , and professed sensuality , are the heads , whereunto all blameable departures from the churches in the scripture are referred . that there are other accounts of this crime , our author doth not assert ; he onely saies , that all , or some of the places i produce , as instances of a blameable separation from a church , do mind the nature of schisme as precedaneous to the separation ; what ere the matter is i do not find him speaking ▪ so faintly and with so much caution through his whole discourse as in this place : all , or some do it ; they mind the nature of schisme ; they mind it as precedaneous to the separation , so the summe of what he aims at in contesting about the exposition of those places of scripture is this ; some of them do mind ( i know not how ) the nature of schisme , which he never once named as precedaneous to separation ; therefore the precise notion of schisme in the scripture doth not denote differences and divisions in a church only ; quod erat demonstrandum : that i should spend time in debating a consideration so remote from the state of the controversie in hand , i am sure will not be expected by such as understand it . pag. 77. of my treatise i affirm that for a man to withdraw or withold himselfe from the communion externall and visible of any church or churches , on that pretention or plea ( be it true or otherwise ) that the worship , doctrine , or discipline instituted by christ is corrupted among them , with which corruption he dares not defile himselfe , is no where in the scripture called schisme , nor is that case particularly exemplified , or expressely supposed , whereby a judgment may be made of the fact at large , but we are left , upon the whole matter , to the guidance of such generall rules and principles as are given us for that end and purpose : such is my meanesse of apprehension that i could not understand , but that either this assertion must be subscribed unto , as of irrefragable verity , or else that instances to the contrary must have been given out of the scripture ; for on that hinge alone doth this present controversie ( and that by consent ) turne it selfe : but our reverend author thinks good to take another course ( for which his reasons may easily be conjectured ) and excepts against the assertion it selfe in generall : first , as ambiguous and fallacious , and then also intimates that he will scan the words in perticular ; mihi jussa capessere , &c. 1. he saies , that i tell not whither a man may separate where there is corruption in some one of these onely or in all of them , nor 2. how farre some or all of these must be corrupted before we separate . a. this is no small vanity under the sunne , that men will not onely measure themselves by themselves , but others also by their own measure : our author is still with his finger in the sore , and therefore supposes that others must needs take the same course . is there any thing in my assertion whither a man may separate from any church or no ? any thing upon what corruption he may lawfully so do ? any thing of stating the difference betwixt the presbiterians and independants ? do i at all fix it on this fo●t of account when i come so to doe ? i humbly beg of this author , that if i have so obscurely and intricately delivered my selfe and meaning , that he cannot come to the understanding of my designe , nor import of my expressions , that he would favour me with a command to explain my selfe , before he engage into a publicke refutation of what he doth not so clearly apprehend ! alas , i do not in this place in the least intend to justify any separation , nor to shew what pleas are sufficient to justify a separation , nor what corruption in the church separated from , is necessary thereunto , nor at all regard the controversie his eye is allwaies on ; but onely declare what is not comprised in the precise scripture notion of schisme , as also how a judgment is to be made of that which is so by me excluded , whither it be good or evill . would he have been pleased to have spoken to the businesse in hand , or any thing to the present purpose , it must not have been by an inquiry into the grounds & reasons of separation , how farre it may be justified by the plea mentioned , or how farre not ▪ when that plea is to be allowed , and when rejected ; but this only was incumbent on him to prove ! namely , that such a separation upon that plea , or the like , is called schisme in the scripture , and as such a thing condemned . what my concernment is in the ensuing observations ; that the judaicall church was as corrupt as ours , that if a bare plea true or false will serve to justifie men , all separatists may be justified , he himselfe will easily perceive : but however , i cannot but tell him by the way , that he who will dogmatize , in this controversy from the judaicall church , and the course of proceedings amongw them , to the direction and limitation of duty , as to the churches of the gospel , considering the vast & important differences between t he constitutions of the one & the other , with the infallible obligation to certain principles , on the account of the typicall institution in that primitive church , when there neither was nor could be any more in the world , must expect to bring other arguments to compasse his designe , then the analogie pretended . for the justification of separatists of the reason , if it will ensue , upon the examination for separation , and the circumstances of the seperating , whereunto i referre them , let it follow , and let who will complain ; but to fill up the measure of the mistake he is ingaged in , he tells us pag. 75. that this is the pinch of the question , whither a man or a company of men may separate from a true church , upon a plea of corruptiō in it , true or false , & set up another church , as to ordinances , renouncing that church to be a true church . this ( saith he ) is plainely our case at present , with the doctor and his associates ; truly i do not know that ever i was necessitated to a more sad and fruitlesse imployment in this kind of labour and travaile . is that the question in present agitation ? is any thing , word , title , or iota spoken to it ? is it my present businesse to state the difference between the presbyterians and independents ? do i anywhere do it upon this account ? do i not every where positively deny that there is any such separation made ? nay can common honesty allow such a state of a question , if that were the businesse in hand to be put upon me ? are their ordinances and churches so denied by me as is pretended ? what i have often said , must again be repeated , the reverend author hath his eye so fixed on the difference between the presbyterians and the independants , that he is at every turn lead out of the way into such mistakes , as it was not possible he should otherwise be overtaken withall ; this is perhaps mentis gratissimus error : but i hope it would be no death to him to be delivered from it . when i laid downe the principles which it was his good will to oppose , i had many things under consideration , as to the settling of conscience in respect of manifold oppositions ; and to tell him the truth , least valued that which he is pleased to mannage , and to look upon as my sole intendment ; if it be not possible to deliver him from this strong imagination , that carries the images and species of independency alwaies before his eies , we shall scarce speak ad idem in this whole discourse . i desire then that he would take notice , that as the state of the controversy he proposes , doth no more relate to that which peculiarly is pretended to ly under his consideration , then any other thing whatever that he might have mentioned ; so when the peculiar difference between him and the independents comes to be mannaged , scarce any one terme of his state will be allowed . exceptions are in the next place attempted to be put in to my assertion , that there is no example in the scripture of any one churches departure from the union which they ought to hold with others , unlesse it be in some of their departures from the common faith , which is not schisme ; much with the same successe as formerly : let him produce one instance , and , en herbam . i grant the roman church on a supposition that it is a church ( which yet i utterly deny ) to be a schismaticall church upon the account of the intestine divisions of all sorts ; or what other accounts other men urge them with the same guilt i suppose he knows by this , that i am not concern'd . having finished this exploit , because i had said , if i were unwilling , i did not understand how i might be compelled to carry on the notion of schisme any farther ; he tells me , though i be unwilling , he doubts not but to be able to compell me : but who told him i was unwilling so to do ? do i not immediately without any compulsion very freely fall upon the worke ? did i say i was unwilling ? certainly it ought not to be thus ; of his abilities in other things i do not doubt ; in this discourse he is pleased to exercise more of something else . there is but one passage more that needs to be remarked , and so this chapter also is dismissed ; he puts in a caveat that i limit not schisme to the worship of god , upon these words of mine ; the consideration of what sort of union in reference to the worship of god ( where he inserts in the repetition ; marke that ) is instituted by jesus christ , is the foundation of what i have further to offer ; whereto he subjoined the designe of this in that he may have a fair retreat , when he is charged with breach of union in other respects , and so with schisme ; to escape by this evasion : this breach of union is not in reference to the worship of god in one assembly met to that end . i wish we had once an end of these mistakes , and false uncharitable surmises . by the worship of god i intend the whole compasse of institutions , and their tendency thereunto . and i know that i speak properly enough in so doing ; i have no such designe as i am charged withall , nor do i need it ; i walke not in feare of this authors forces , that i should be providing before hand to secure my retreat . i have passed the bounds of the precise notion of schisme before insisted on , and yet doubt not but god assisting to make good my ground . if he judge i cannot , let him command my personall attendance on him at any time , to be driven from it by him ; let him by any meanes prove against me at any time a breach of any union instituted by jesus christ , and i will promise him , that with all speed i will retreate from that state , or thing , whereby i have so done . i must professe to this reverend author , that i like not the cause he mannages one whit the better for the way whereby he mannageth it . we had need watch and pray that we be not lead into temptation : seeing we are in some measure not ignorant of the devices of sathan . now that he may see this door of escape shut up , that so he may not need to trouble himselfe any more in taking care , least i escape that way , when he intends to fall upon me with those blowes , which as yet i have not felt , i shall shut it fast my selfe , beyond all possibility of my opening againe : i here then declare unto him , that when ever he shall prove that i have broken any union of the institution of jesus christ , of what sort soever , i will not in excuse of my selfe , insist on the plea mentioned , but will submit to the discipline , which shall be thought meet by him to be exercised towards any one offending in that kind : yet truely on this engagement i would willingly contract with him , that in his next reply he should not deale with me , as he hath done in this , neither as to my person , nor as to the differences between us . chap. 6. having declared and vindicated the scripture proper notion of schisme , and thence discovered the nature of it with all its aggravations , with the mistakes that men have run into , who have suited their apprehensions concer●ing it , unto what was their interests to have it thought to be , and opened a way thereby for the furtherance of peace among professors of the gospell of jesus christ , for the further security of the consciences of men unjustly accused and charged with the guilt of this evill , i proceeded to the consideration of it in the usuall common acceptation of the word , and things , that so i might obviate what ever with any tollerable pretence is insisted on , as deduced by a parity of reason from what is delivered in the scripture , in reference to the charge managed by some or other against all sorts of protestants . hereupon i grant , that it may be looked on in generall as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , a branch of union , so that it be granted also , that that union be an union of the institution of jesus christ . to find out then the nature of schisme under the consideration of the condescention made : and to discover wherein the guilt of it doth consist : it is necessary that we find out what that union is , and wherein it doth consist , whereof it is the brcadth and interruption , or is supposed so to be over and above the breach above mentioned and described . now this union being the union of the church , the severall acceptations of the church in scripture are to be investigated , that the union inquired after , may be made known . the church in scripture being taken either for the church catholick or the whole number of elect beleivers in the world ( for we lay aside the consideration of that part of this great family of god , which is already in heaven , from this distinction ) or else for the generall visible body of those who professe the gospell of christ , or for a particular society joining together in the celebration of the ordinances of the new testament , instituted by christ to be so celebrated by thē ; the union of it , with the breach of that union , in these severall respects with the application of the whole , to the businesse under consideration , was to be enquired after : which also was performed . i began with the consideration of the catholick invisible church of christ , and the union thereof ; having declared the rise of this distinction , and the necessity of it from the nature of the things themselves ; as to the matter of this church , or the church of christ as here militant on earth , i affirme , and evince it to be , all and only elect believers ; the union of this church consists in the inhabitation of the same spirit in all the members of it , uniting them to the head christ jesus , and therein to one another . the breach of this union , i manifested to consist in the losse of that spirit , with all the peculiar consequences and effects of him in the hearts of them , in whom he dwels ; this i manifest according to our principles to be impossible , and upon a supposition of it , how remote it would be from schisme , under any notion or acceptation of the word ; so closing that discourse with a charge on the romanists of their distance from an interest in this church of jesus christ . our reverend author professes that he hath but little to say to these things , some exceptions he puts in unto some expressions used in the explication of my sense , in this particular : that which he chiefely insists upon , is the accommodation of that promise matth. 16. 28. upon this rock will i build my church , to the church in this sense , which he concludes to belong to the visible church of professors ; now as i am not at all concerned , as to the truth of what i am in confirmation of , to which of these it be applyed , so i am far from being alone in that application of it to the catholick church which i insist upon ; all our divines that from hence prove , the perseverance of all individuall believers , as all do that i have met withall , who write on that subject , are of the same mind with me . moreover the church is built on this rock in its individuals ; or i know not how it is so built . the building on christ , doth not denote a meer relation of a generall body to his truth , that it shall allwaies have an existence , but the union of the individualls with him in their being built on him , to whom the promise is made . i acknowledg it for as unquestionable a truth as any we believe , that christ hath had , and ever shall have to the end of the world , a visible number of those that professe his name , and subjection to his kingdome ; because of the necessary consequence of profession upon believing ; but that , that truth is intended in this promise any farther but in respect of this consequence , i am not convinced . and i would be loath to say that this promise is not made to every particular believer , and only unto them ; being willing to vindicate to the saints of god , all those grounds of consolation which he is so willing they should be made partakers of . as to the union of this church and the breach of it , our reverend author , hath a little to say : because there may be some decaies in true grace in the members of this church : he affirms that in a sort there may be said to be a breach in this union , and so consequently a schisme in this body . he seemed formerly to be affraid lest all schisme should be thrust out of the world ; if he can retrive it on the account of any true believers failing in grace , or falling for a season , i suppose he needs not fear the losse of it , whilst this world continues : but it is fit , wise , and learned men should take the liberty of calling things by what names they please ; so they will be pleasd withall , not to impose their conceptions and use of tearms on them who are not able to understand the reasons of them . it is true there may be a schisme among the members of this church , but not as members of this church , nor with reference to the union thereof . it is granted that schisme is the breach of union ; but not of every union much lesse not a breach of that , which , if there were a breach of , it were not schisme : however by the way i am bold to tell this reverend author , that this doctrine of his , concerning schisme in the catholick invisible church , by the failings in grace in any of the mēbers of it for a season , is a new notion , which as he cannot justify to us , because it is false , so , i wonder how he will justify it to himselfe , because it is new . and what hath been obtained by the author against my principles in this chapter . i cannot perceive . the nature of the church in the state considered , is not opposed ; the union asserted not disproved ; the breach of that union , is denyed ( as i suppose ) no lesse by him then my selfe ; that the instances that sōe saints , as mēbers of this church may sometimes fail in grace more or lesse for some season ; & that the members of this church , though not as members of this church , yet on other considerations may be guilty of schisme , concern not the businesse under debate , himselfe i hope is satisfied . chap. 7. our progresse in the next place is to the consideration of the catholick church visible . who are the members of this church , whereof it is constituted , what is required to make them so , on what account men visibly professing the gospell may be esteemed justly devested of the priviledge of being members of this church , with sundry respects of the church in that sense , are in my treatise discussed . the union of this church that is proper and peculiar unto it as such , i declared to be the profession of the saving doctrine of the gospell , not everted by any of the miscarriages , errors , or oppositions to it , that are there recounted . the breach of this union i manifest to consist in apostasy , from the profession of the faith , and so to be no schisme , upon whomsoever the guilt of it doth fall ; pleading the immunity of the protestants as such from the guilt of the breach of this union , and charging it upon the romanists , in all the waies whereby it may be broken , an issue is put to that discourse . what course our reverend author takes in the examination of this chapter , & the severalls of it , whereon the strength of the controversie dothly ; is now to be consideed ; doth he deny this church to be a collection of all that are duly called christians in respect of their profession ? to be that great multitude who throughout the world , professe the doctrine of the gospell , and subjection to jesus christ ? doth he denie the union of this church , or that whereby that great multitude are incorporated into one body as visible and professing , to be the profession of the saving doctrines of the gospell , & of subjection to jesus christ according to them ? doth he denie the dissolution of this union as to the interest of any member by it in the body , to be by apostasy from the profession of the gospell ? doth he charge that apostasy upon those whom he calls independents as such , or if he should , could he tolerably defend his charge ? doth he prove that the breach of this union , is under that formality properly schisme ? nothing lesse ! as far as i can gather : might not then the trouble of this chapter have been spared ? or shall i be necessitated to defend every expression in my book , though nothing at all to the main businesse under debate , or else independency must goe for a great schisme . i confesse this is somewhat an hard law , and such as i cannot proceed in obedience unto it , without acknowledging his ability to compell me to go on further then i am willing ; yet i do it with this ingagement , that i will so looke to my selfe , that he shall never have that power over me any more ; nor will i upon any compulsion of useless needlesse cavils & exceptions do so again ▪ so that in his reply he now knowes how to order his affairs so , as to be freed from the trouble of a rejoinder . his first attempt in this chapter , is upon a short discourse of mine , in my processe , which i professe not to be needfull to the purpose in hand , relating to some later disputes about the nature of this church , wherein some had affirmed it to be a genus to particular churches , which are so many distinct species of it , and others that it was a totum made up of particular churches as its parts , both which in some sense i denyed ; partly out of a desire to keep off all debates about the things of god , frō being enwrapped and agitated in and under philosophicall notions and faigned tearms of art , which hath exceedingly multiplied controversies in the world and rendred them endlesse , and doth more or lesse streighten or oppose every truth that is so dealt withall : partly because i evidently saw men deducing false consequents from the supposition of such notions of this church : for the first way , our reverend author lets it passe , onely with a remarke upon my dissenting from mr hooker of new england , which he could not but note by the way , although he approves what i affirme . a worthy note ! as though all the brethren of the presbyterian way , were agreed among themselves in all things of the like importance ; or that i were in my judgment enthralled to any man or men , so that it should deserve a note when i dissent from them . truly i blesse god , i am utterly unacquainted with any such frame of spirit , or bondage of mind , as must be supposed to be in them whose dissent from other men is a matter of such observation . one is my master , to whom alone my heart and judgement are in subjection : for the latter i do not say absolutely that particular churches are not the parts of the catholique visible , in any sense , but that they are not so parts of it as such , so that it should be constituted & made up by thē , & of thē , for the order and purpose of an instituted church , for the celebration of the worship of god , and institutions of christ , according to the gospell ; which when our author proves that it is : i shall acknowledge my selfe obliged to him . he saies indeed , that it was once possible that all the members of the catholique church , should meet together , to heare one sermon , &c. but he is to prove , that they were bound to do so , as that catholique church , and not that it was possible for all the members of it under any other notion , or consideration so to convene . but he saies , they are bound to do so still , but that the multitude makes it impossible : credat apella : that christ hath bound his church to that which himselfe makes impossible . neither are they so bound : they are bound , by his own acknowledgement , to be members of particular churches : & in that capacity , are they bound so to convene ; those churches being by the will of god , appointed for the seat of ordinances . and so what he adds in the next place of particular churches , being bound according to the institution of christ to assemble for the celebration of ordinances , is absolutely destructive of the former figment . but he would know a reason why 40 or more , that are not members of one particular church , but only of the catholick , meeting together , may not join together in all ordinances , as well as they may meet to heare the word preached , and often doe ; to which i answer ; that it is because jesus christ hath appointed particular churches , and there is more required to them , then the occasionall meeting of some , any , or all , if possible of the members of the catholick church as such , will afford . his reflexions upon my selfe , added in that place , are now growne so common , that they deserve not any notice . in his ensuing discourse , if i may take leave to speak freely to our reverend author , he wrangles about termes and expressions , adding to , and altering those by me used in this businesse at his pleasure , to make a talke to no purpose . the summe of what he pretends to oppose is , that this universall church , or the universality of professors considered as such , neither formally as members of the church catholick , mistically elect , nor as any members of any particular church , have not as such , any church forme of the institution of christ , by virtue whereof , they should make up one instituted church , for the end and purpose of the celebration of the ordinances of the gospell therein . if he suppose he can prove the contrary , let him cease from cavilling at words , and by expressions , which is a facile taske for any man to engage in , and no way usefull , but to make controversies endlesse ; and answer my reasons against it , which here he passeth over , and produce his testimonies and arguments for that purpose . this triviall ventilation of particular passages cut off from their influence into the whole , is not worth a nut-shell , but is a businesse fit for them who have nothing else to employ themselves about . coming to consider the union that i assigne to this church , after whose breach an enquiry is to be made , which is the maine , and only thing of his concernment , as to the aime he hath proposed to himselfe , he passeth it over very slightly : taking no notice at all of my whole discourse , frō p. 116. top . 133. of my treatise ; wherein i disprove the pretensions of other things to be the union , or bond of union to this church ; he fixes a very little while on what i assigne to be that union . this i say is profession of the faith of the gospell , and subjection to jesus christ according to it : to which he adds , that they are bound to more then this , viz : to the exercise of the same specificall ordinances , as also to love one another , to subjection to the same discipline , and where it is possible to the exercise of the same numericall worship . all this was expresly affirm'd by me before ; it is all virtually contained in their profession , so far as the things mentioned are revealed in the gospell : only as to the celebrating of the same numericall ordinances , i cannot grant that they are obliged hereunto as formally considered members of that church , nor shall , untill our reverend author shall think meet to prove , that particular congregations are not the institutions of jesus christ . but hereupon he affirms , that that is a strange assertion used by me pa : 117. namely , that if there be not an institution of joining in the same numericall ordinances , the union of this church is not really a church union . this is no more but what was declared before , nor more then what i urged the testimony of a learned presbyterian for : no more but this , that the universality of christians throughout the world , are not under such an institution , as that , to assemble together for the celebration of the same numericall ordinances ; the pretence of any such institution being supplied by christ's acknowledged institutiō of particular churches for that purpose . what i have offered in my treatise , as evidence that protestants are not guilty of the breach of this union , and that where any are , their crime is not schisme but apostacy , either as to profession or conversation , i leave to the judgment of all candid , sober , and ingenious readers ; for such as love strife , and debates , and disputes , whereof the world is full , i would crave of them , that if they must chuse me for their adversary , they would allow me to answer in person , vivâ voce , to prevent this tedious trouble of writing , which for the most part is fruitlesse and needlesse . some exceptions our author laies in , against the properties of the profession by me required , as necessary to the preservation of this union : as to the first of professing all necessary saving truths of the gospell , he excepts that the apostles were ignorant of many necessary truths of the gospell for a season , and some had never heard of the holy ghost . act. 29. and yet they kept the union of the catholick church . and yet our author before he closeth this chapter , will charge the breach of this union on some , whose errors cannot well be apprehended to lie in the deniall of any necessary truth of the gospell , that is , indispensably necessary to salvation . as to his instance of the apostles , he knows it is one thing not to know clearly and distinctly for some season , some truths in hypothesi , and another to deny them being sufficiently and clearly revealed in thesi ; and for those in the acts , it is probable they were ignorant of the dispensations of the holy ghost , with his marvelous effects under the gospell , rather then of the person of the holy ghost : for even in respect of the former it is absolutely said that the holy ghost was not yet , because jesus was not yet glorified . i shall not pursue his other exceptions , being sorry that his judgment leads him to make them ; that which alone beares any aspect to the business in hand , he insists on pag. 99. in these words . i have intimated and partly proved , that there may be a breach of union , with respect to the catholick church upon other considerations ( namely besides the renuntiation of the profession of the gospell : ) as first , there is a bond that obliges every member of this church , to joine together in exercising the same ordinances of worship : when then any man shall refuse to joine with others , or refuse others to joine with him , here is a breach of love and union among the members of the catholick church ; and in the particular churches as parts of the catholick . the reader must pardon me for producing and insisting on these things , seeing i do it with this profession , that i can fix on nothing else so much to the purpose in hand : and yet how little these are so , cannot but be evident upon a sleight view to the meanest capacities . for 1. he tells us there may be a breach of union with respect to the catholick church , on other considerations : not that there may be a breach of the uniō of the catholick church . 2. that there is a bond binding men to the exercise of ordinances ; so there is binding man to all holinesse ; and yet he denies the vilest profane persons to break that bond or this union . 3. that there may be a breach of union among the members of the church : but who knows it not , that knows all members of particular churches , are also members of this church generall . our enquiry is after the union of the catholick-church visible , what it is , how broken , and what the crime or evill is , whereby it is broken , what obligations lie on the members of that church , as they stand under any other formall consideration ; what is the evill they are any of them guiltie of , in not answering these obligations , we were not at all enquiring , nor doth it in this place concerne us so to do . and in what he afterwards tells us of some proceedings contrary to the practise of the universall church she intends i suppose all the churches in the worldj wherein the members of the universall church have walked or do so ; for the universall church as such , hath no practice as to cecelebration of ordinances ; & if he suppose it hath , let him tell us what it is , and when that practice was . his appeale to the primitive believers , and their small number will not availe him : for although they should be granted to be the then catholick visible church ( against which he knowes what exceptions may be laid from the believers amongst the jewes , such as cornelius , to whom christ had not as yet been preached , as the messiah come , and exhibited ) yet as such , they joined not in the celebration of ordinances , but ( as yet they were ) as a particular congregation ; yea though all the apostles were amongst them , the foundation of all the churches that afterwards were called . he concludes this chapter with an exception to my assertion , that if the catholick church be a politicall body , it must have a visible politicall head , which nothing but the pope claimes to be . of this he saies , 1. there is no necessity , for saith he , he confesses the common wealth of the jews , was a politicall body , and god who is invisible , was their politicall head : 2. jesus christ is a visible head , yea sometimes more , visus , seen of men whilst on earth , though now for a time in majesty ( as some great princes do , ) he hath withdrawn himselfe from the sight of men on earth , yet is he seen of angels and saints in heaven . a. 1. i confesse god was the king and ruler of the jewes , but yet that they might be a visible politicall body , the invisible god , appointed to them under him , a visible head ; as the pope blasphemously pretends to be appointed under jesus christ . 2. jesus christ is in his humane nature still visible , as to his person , wherein he is the head of his church , he ever was , and is still invisible . his present absence , is not upon the account of majesty , seeing in his majesty he is still present with us ; and as to his bodily absence he gives other accounts , then that here insinuated . now it sufficeth not to constitute a visible politicall body , that the head of it , in any respect may be seen , unlesse as that their head he is seen : christ is visible , as this church is visible ; he in his lawes , in his word ; that in its profession , in its obedience . but i marvell that our reverend author thus concluding for christ to be the politicall head of this church , as a church , should at the same time contend for such subjects of this head as he doth , p. 96. namely persons , contradicting their profession of the knowledge of god , by a course of wickedness , manifesting principles of profaneness , wherewith the beliefe of the truth they profess , hath an absolute inconsistency ; as i expresly describe the persons , whose membership in this church , and relation thereby to christ their head he pleads for . are indeed these persons any better thēmahumetans as to church priviledges ? they are indeed in some places , as to providentiall advantages of hearing the word preached ; but woe unto them on that account ; it shall be more tolerable for mahumetans in that day of christ , then for them : shall their baptisme availe them ? though it were valid in its administration , that is , was celebrated in obedience to the cōmād of christ , is it not null to thē ? is not their circumcision uncircūcision ? shall such persons give their children any right to church priviledges ? let them if you please be so subjects to christ , as rebells and traitors are subject to their earthly princes : they ought indeed to be so , but are they so ? do they owne their authority ? are they obedient to them ? do they enjoy any priviledge of lawes ? or doth ▪ the apostle anywhere call such persons as live in a course of wickednesse , manifesting principles utterly inconsistent with the profession of the gospell , brethren ? god forbid we should once imagine these things so to be ! and so much for that chapter . chap. viii . of independentisme and donatisme . the title of our authors book is , independency a great schisme , of this chapter that it may be the better known what kind of schisme it is , independentisme is donatisme . men may give what title they please to their books and chapters , though perhaps few books make good their titles . i am sure this doth not as yet , nisi accusasse sufficiat : attempts of proof we have not as yet met withall : what this chapter will furnish us withall , we shall now consider . he indeed that shall weigh the title , independentisme is donatisme , & then casting his eye upon the first lines of the chapter it selfe , find , that the reverend author saies , he cannot but acknowledge , that what i plead for the vindication of protestants from the charge of schisme in their separation from rome , as the catholick church , to be rationall , solid , and judicious ; will perhaps be at a losse in conjecturing how i am like to be dealt withall in the following discourse ; a little patience will let him see , that our author laies more weight upon the title , then the preface of this chapter ; and that with all my fine trappings i am enrolled in the black booke of the donatists : but 1 quod fo rs feret feramus aequo animo ; or as another saith , debemus optare optima , cogitare difficulima , ferre quaecunque erunt ; as the case is fallen out , we must deal with it as we can . 1. he saith ; he is not satisfied , that he not only denies the church of rome ( so called ) to be a particular church , pag. 154. but also affirms it to be no church at all . that he is not satisfied , with what i affirm of that synagogue of sathan where he hath his throne , i cannot helpe it , though i am sorry for it : i am not also without some trouble , that i cannot understand , what he means by placeing my words , so as to intimate , that i say , not only that the church of rome is no particular church , but also that it is no church at all ; as though it might in his judgment or mine , be any church , if it be not a particular church ; for i verily suppose neither he nor i judg it to be that catholick church , whereto it pretends . but yet as i have no great reason to expect that this reverend author should be satisfied in any thing that i affirme , so i hope that it is not impossible , but that without any great difficulty , he may be reconciled to himselfe affirming the very same thing , that i do p. 113. it is of rome in that sence , wherein it claims it self to be a church , that i speak : & in that sence he saies it is no church of christs institution , and so for my part , i account it no church at all ; but he adds , that he is far more unsatisfied that i undertake the cause of the donatists , and labour to exempt them from schisme , though i allow them guilty of other crimes . but do i indeed undertake the cause of the donatists ? do i plead for thē ? will he manifest it by saying more against them in no more words , then i haved one ? do i labour to exempt them from schisme ? are these the waies of peace , love and truth that the reverend author walks in ? do i not condemne all their practises , and pretensions from the beginning to the end ? can i not speak of their cause in reference to the catholick church and its union , but it must be affirmed that i plead for them ? but yet as if righteousnesse and truth had been observ'd in this crimination , he undertakes as of a thing granted to give my grounds of doing , what he affirms me to have done : the first is , as he saies , his singular notion of schisme , limiting it only to differences in a particular assembly . 2. his jealousy of the charge of schisme to be objccted to himselfe , and party , if separating from the true churches of christ be truly called schisme . a. what may i expect from others , when so grave and reverend a person as this author is reported to be , shall thus deal with me ? sr i have no singular notion of schisme , but embrace that which paul hath long since declared , nor can you manifest any difference in my notion from what he hath delivered ; nor is that notion of schisme at all under consideration in reference to what i affirme of the donatists , ( who in truth were concerned in it , the most of them to them to the utmost ) but the union of the church catholick and the breach thereof ; neither am i jealous or fearfull of the charge ' of schisme , from any person living on the earth , and least of all from men proceeding in church affaires upon the principles you proceed on . had you not been pleased , to have supposed what you please , without the least ground , or colour , or reason , perhaps you would have as little satisfyed your selfe in the charge you have undertaken to manage against me , as you have done many good men , as the case now stands , even of your own judgment in other things . having made this entrance , he proceeds in the same way , and pag. 164. laye's the foundation of the title of his booke & this chapter , of his charge of donatisme in these words . this lies in full force against him and his party , who have broken the union of our churches , and separated themselves from all the protestant churches in the world , not of their own constitution , and that as no true churches of christ : this i say is the foundatiō of his whole ensuing discourse ; all the groūd that he hath to stand upon in the defence of the invidious title of this chapter ; and what fruit he expects from this kind of proceeding i know not ; the day will manifest of what sort this work is ; although he may have some mistaken apprehensions to countenance his conscience in the first part of his assertion , or that it may be forgiven to inveterate praejudice though it be false ; namely ; that i and my party ( that 's the phraseology , this author in his love to unity delights in ) have broken the union of their churches ( which we have no more done , then they have broken the union of ours , for we began our reformation with them , on even tearms , and were as early at work as they ) yet what coulour , what excuse can be invented to alleviate the guilt of the latter part of it , that we have separated from all the reformed churches as no churches ? and yet he repeats this again . pag. 106. with especiall reflexion on my selfe : i wonder not saith he , that the doctor hath unchurched roome , for he hath done as much to england and all forraign protestant churches , and makes none to be members of the church , but such as are by covenant and consent joyned to some of their congregations . now truly though all righteous laws of men in the world , will afford recompence and satisfaction for calumniating accusations and slaunders of much lesse importance then this here publickly ownd by our reverend author , yet seeing the gospell of the blessed god , requires to forgive , and passe by greater injuries , i shall labour in the strength of his grace to bring my heart unto conformity to his will therein ; notwithstanding which , because by his providence i am in that place and condition , that others also that fear his name may be some way concern'd in this unjust imputatiō , i must declare that this is open unrighteousness , wherein neither love nor truth hath been observed . how little i am concernd in his following parallell of independentisme and donatisme , wherein he proceeds with the same truth and candor , or in all that followes thereupon , is easy for any one to judg . he proceeds to scan my answers to the romanists , as in reference to their charge of schisme upon us ; and saies , i do it sutable to my own principles . and truly if i had not , i think i had been much to blame . i referre the reader to the answers given in my book , and if he like them not , notwithstanding this authors exceptions , i wish he may fix on those that please him better ▪ in them there given , my conscience doth acquiesce . but he comes in the next place to arguments , wherein if he prove more happy then he hath done in accusations , he will have great cause to rejoyce . by a double argument , as he saies , he will prove that there may be schisme besides that in a particular church . his first is this . schisme is a breach of union , but there may be a breach of union in the catholick visible church . his second this ; where there are differenccs raysed in matter of faith professed , wherein the union of the catholick church consists , there may be a breach of union , but there may be differences in the catholick , or among the members of the catholick church in matter of faith professed , ergo . having thus laid down his arguments , he falls to conjecture what i will answer , and how i will evade ; but it will quickly appear that he is no lesse unhappy in arguing and conjecturing , then he is , and was in accusing . for to consider his first argument : if he will undertake to make it good as to its forme , i will by the same way of arguing , ingage my selfe to prove what he would be unwilling to find in a regular conclusion . but as to the matter of it , 1. is schisme every breach of union ? or is every breach of union schisme ? schisme in the ecclesiasticall notion is granted to be in the present dispute , the breach of the union of a church , which it hath by the institution of christ ; and this not of any union of christs institution , but of one certaine kind of union ; for as was proved , there is an union , whose breach can neither in the language of the scripture , nor in reason , nor common sense be called or accounted schisme , nor ever was by any man in the world , nor can be without destroying the particular nature of schisme , and allowing only the generall notion of any separation , good or bad , in what kind soever . so that secondly , it is granted , not onlie that there may be a breach of union in the catholick church , but also that there may be a breach of the union of the catholick church , by a deniall or relinquishment of the profession wherein it consists ; but that this breach of union is sehisme , because sehisme is a breach of union , is as true , as that every man who hath two eyes , is every thing that hath two eyes . for his second , it is of the same importance with the first ; there may be differences in the catholick church , and breaches of union among the members of it , which are far enough from the breach of the union of that church , as such . two professors may fall out and differ , and yet i think continue both of them professors still . paul and barnabas did so ; chrysostome and epiphanius did so ; cyrill and theodoret did so . that which i denied was , that the breach of the union of the catholick church as such , is schisme . he proves the contrary by affirming there may be differences among the members of the catholick church , that do not break the union of it , as such . but he saies though there be apostasy , or heresy , yet there may be schisme also ; but not in respect of the breach of the same union , which only he was to prove . besides evill surmizes , reproaches , false criminations , and undue suggestions , i find nothing wherein my discourse is concerned to the end of this chap. pag. 109. upon the passage of mine ; we are thus come off from this part of schisme for the relinquishment of the catholick church , which we have not done , and so to do , is not schisme , but a sin of another nature , and importance ; he adds , that the ground i goe upon why separation from a true church ( he must meane the catholick church , or he speaks nothing at all the businesse in hand ) is no schisme , is that afore mentioned , that a schisme in the scripture notion is onely a division of jugment in a particular assembly . but who so blind as they that will not see ? the ground i proceeded on evidently , openly , solely , was taken from the nature of the catholick church its union , and the breach of that union , and if obiter i once mention that notion , i do it upon my confidence of its truth , which i here againe tender my selfe in a readinesse to make good to this reverend author , if at any time he will be pleased to command my personall attendance upon him to that purpose . to repeat more of the like mistakes and surmizes , with the wranglings that ensue on such false suppositions to the end of this chapter , is certainly needlesse ; for my part , in and about this whole businesse of separation from the catholick church , i had not the least respect to presbyterians or independents as such , nor to the differences betweē them , which alone our author out of his zeale to truth and peace attends unto : if he will fasten the guilt of schisme on any on the account of separation from the catholick church , let him prove that that church is not made up of the universality of professors of the gospell throughout the world , under the limitations expressed ; that the union of it as such , doth not consist in the profession of the truth ; and that the breach of that union whereby a man ceases to be a member of that church is schismes , otherwise to tell me that i am a sectary , a schismatick , to fill up his pages with vaine surmizes and supposalls , to talke of a difference and schsme among the members of the catholick church , or the like impertinencies , will never farther his discourse among men , either rationall , solid , or judicious . all that ensues to the end of this chapter is about the ordination of ministers , wherein however he hath beē pleased to deal with me in much bitternesse of spirit , with many clamours and false accusations ; i am glad to find him ( p. 120. ) renouncing ordination from the authority of the church of rome as such , for i am assured , that by his so doing , he can claime it no waie from , by , or through rome ; for nothing came to us from thence , but what came , in and by the authority of that church . chap. ix . we are now gathering towards what seems of most immediate concernment as to this reverend authors undertaking ; namely to treate of the nature of a particular church , its union and the breach of that union ; the description i give of such a church is this ; it is a society of men called by the word to the obedience of the faith in christ , and joint performance of the worship of god in the same individuall ordinances according to the order by him prescribed . this i professe to be a generall description of its nature , waving all contests about accurate definitions , which usually tend very little to the discovery or establishment of truth : after some canvassing of this description , our author tells us that he grants it to be the definition of a particular church , which is more then i intended it for ; only he adds that according to this description , their churches are as true as ours ; which i presume by this time he knowes was not the thing in question . his ensuing discourse of the will of christ , that men should joine not all in the same individuall congregation , but in this or that , is by me wholly assented ūto , and the matter of it contended for by me , as i am able ; what he is pleased to adde about explicite covenanting and the like , i am not at all for the present concerned in ; i purposely waved all expressions concerning it , one way or other , that i might not involve the businesse in hand with any unnecessary contests ; it is possible somewhat hereafter may be spoken to that subject , in a tendency unto the reconciliation of the parties at variance . his argument in the close of the section for a presbyterian church from acts 20. 17. because there is mention of more elders then one in that church , and therefore it was not one single congregation i do not understand ; i think no one single congregation is wholly compleated according to the mind of christ , unlesse there be more elders then one it ; there should be elders in every church ; and for my part , so we could once agree practically in the matter of our churches , i am under some apprehension that it were no impossible thing to reconcile the whole difference , as to a presbyterian church , or a single congregation . and though i be reproved a new for my pains , i may offer ere long to the candid consideration of godly men , something that may provoke others of better abilities and more leasure , to endeavour the carrying on of so good a work . proceeding to the consideration of the unity of this church , he takes notice of three things laid down by me , previously to what i was farther to assert ; all which he grants to be true , but yet will not let them passe without his animadversions . the two first are that 1. a man may be a member of the catholick invisible church , and 2 of the visible catholick church , and yet not be joyned to a particular church . these , as i said , he ownes to be true , but askes how i can reconcile this with what i said before , namely , that the members of the catholick visible church are initiated into the profession of the faith by baptisme ; but where lies the difference ? why saith he , baptisme according to his principles is an ordinance of worship only to be enjoyed in a particular church , whilst he will grant ( what yet he doth denie , but will be forced to grant ) that a minister is a minister to more then his owne church , even to the catholick church , and may administer baptisme out of a particular church , as phillip did to the eunuch . a. how well this author is acquainted with my principles , hath been already manifested ; as to his present mistake i shall not complaine , seeing that some occasion may be administred unto it , from an expression of mine , at least as it is printed , of which i shall speak afterwards ; for the present he may be pleased to take notice , that i am so far from confining baptisme subjectively to a particular congregation , that i do not believe that any member of a particular church was ever regularly baptized : baptisme precedes admission into church membership , as to a particular church ; the subject of it , is professing believers and their seed ; as such they have right unto it , whither they be joined to any particular church or no ; suitable to this judgment hath been my constant and uninterrupted practise . i desire also to know , who told him that i deny a minister to be a minister to more then his own church , or averred that he may perform ministeriall duty only in and towards the members of his own congregation : for so much as men are appointed the objects of the dispensation of the word i grant a man in the dispensation of it to act ministerially towards not only the members of the catholick church , but the visible members of the world also in contradistinction thereunto : the third thing laid down by me , whereunto also he assentes is , that every believer is oblieged to join himselfe to some one of those churches , that there he may abide in doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayer : but my reasons whereby i prove this , he saies he likes not so well : and truly i cannot helpe it ; i have little hope he should like any thing well which is done by me : let him be pleased to furnish me with better , and i shall make use of them ; but yet when he shall attempt so to doe , it is odds but that one or other , will find as many flawes in them as he pretends to do in mine ; but this , he saith he shall make use of , and that , he shall make advantage of , and i know not what , as if he were playing a prize upon a stage . the third reason is that which he likes worst of all , and i like the businesse the better , that what he understands least , that he likes worst ; it is , that christ hath given no direction for any duty of worship , meerly and purely of soveraign institution , but only to them and by them who are so joined ; hereupon he askes : 1. is baptisme a a part of worship ? a : yes , and to be so performed by them , that is a minister in , or of them ; i fear my expression in this place lead him to his whole mistake in this matter : 2. prayer and reading of the word in private families are they no duty of worship : an : not meerly and purely of soveraign institution . 3. is preaching to convert heathens a duty of worship ? not ( as described ) in all cases ; when it is , it is to be performed by a minister ; and so he knowes my answer to his next invidious inquiry , relating to my own person ; against my fourth reason taken from the apostles care to leave none out of this order , who were converted , where it was possible : he gives in the instance of the eunuch , and others converted where there were not enough to ingage in such societies ; that , is in them with whom it was impossible : my fift is from christ's providing of officers for these churches ; this also he saith is weak as the rest , for first , christ provided officers at first for the catholick church , that is the apostles . 2. all ordinary officers are set first in the catholicke church , and every minister is first a minister to the catholick church , and if ( saith he ) he deny this , he knowes where to find a learned antagonist . a. but see what it is to have a mind to dispute : will he deny that christ appointed officers for particular churches , or if he should have a mind to do it , will his arguments evince any such thing ; christ appointed apostles , catholick officers , therefore he did not appoint officers for particular churches ; though he commanded that elders should be ordained in every church ; pastors and teachers are set first in the catholick church , therefore christ hath not ordained officers for particular churches ; but this is the way with our author ! if any word offers it selfe , whence it is possible to draw out the mention of any thing , that is , or hath at any time been in difference between presbiterians and independents , that presently is run away withall ; for my part i had not the least thought of the controversie which to no purpose at all he would here lead me to : but yet i must tell him that my judgment is , that ordinary officers are firstly to be ordained in particular churches : and as i know where to find a learned antagonist as to that particular , so i do , in respect of every thing that i affirme or deny in the businesse of religion , and yet i blesse the lord i am not in the least disquieted or shaken in my adherence to the truth i professe . my last reason , he saith , is fallacious and inconsequent , and that because he hath put an inference upon it never intended in it . now the position that these reasons were produced to confirm being true , and so acknowledged by himselfe , because it is a truth that indeed i lay some more then ordinary weight upon , it being of great use in the daies wherein we live : i would humbly intreat this reverend author to send me his reasons whereby it may be confirmed , and i shall promise him if they be found of more validity then those which according to my best skill i have allready used , he shall obtain many thanks , and much respect for his favour ; what he remarks upon , or adds to my next discourse about instituted worship in generall , i shall not need to insist on : onely by the way i cannot but take notice of that which he calls a chiefe piece of independencie , and that is ! that those who are joined in church fellowship are so confined that they cannot or may not worship god in the same ordinances in other churches : how this comes to be a cheife peice of independency , i know ▪ not . it is contrary to the known practise of all the churches of england that i am acquainted with , which he calls independents . for my part i know but one man of that mind , and he is no child in these things . for the ensuing discourse about the intercision of ordinances , it being a matter of great importance , and inquired into by me meerly in reference to the roman apostacy , it needs a more serious disquisition , then any thing at present administred by our author will give occasion unto : possibly in convenient time i may offer somewhat farther towards the investigation of the mind of god therein : every thing in this present contest is so warped to the petty difference between presbyterians and independents , that no faire progresse nor opportunity for it can be afforded : if it may be , in my next debate of it , i shall wave al mentiō of those meaner differences : & as i remember i have not insisted on them in what i have allready proposed to this purpose , so possibly the next time i may utterly escape . for the present , i do not doubt but the spirit of god in the scripture , is furnished with sufficient authority to erect new churches , and set up the celebration of all ordinances on supposition that there was an intercision of them . to declare the way of his exerting his authority to this purpose , with the obviating of all objections to the contrary , is not a matter to be tossed up and down in this scambling chase : and i am not a litle unhappy , that this reverend person was in the dark to my designe and aime all along , which hath intangled this dispute with so many impertinences ; but however i shall answer a question which he is pleased to put to me in particular : he askes me then whither i do not think in my conscience that there were no true churches in england untill the brownists our fathers , the anabaptists our elder brothers , and our selves arose and gathered new churches . with thanks for the civility of the inquiry in the manner of its expression , i answer no! i have no such thoughts , and his pretence of my insinuation of any such thing , is most vaine , as also is his insultation thereupon ; truly if men will in all things take liberty to speak what they please , they have no reason but to think that they may at one time or other heare that which will displease ; having investigated the nature of a particular church , i proceed in my treatise of schisme , to inquire after the union of it , wherein it doth consist , and what is the breach thereof ; the summe is the joint consent of the members to walke together in celebration of the same numericall ordinances , according to the mind of jesus christ , is that wherein the union of such a church doth consist . this is variously excepted against : and i know not what disputes about an implicit and explicit covenant , of specificating forms , of the practise of new and old england , of admission of church members , of the right of the members of the catholick church to all ordinances , of the miscarriage of the independents , of church matriculations and such like things , not once considered by me in my proposall of the matter in hand ; are fallen upon . by the way he fals upon my judgment about the inhabitation of the spirit , calls it an error , and saies so it hath been reputed by all that are orthodox ; raising terrible suspitions and intimations of judgments on our way from god , by my falling into that error ; when yet i say no more then the scripture saith in expresse tearms forty times , for which i referre him to what i have written on that subject , wherein i have also the concurrence of polanus , bucanus , dorchetus with sundry others lutherans and calvinists ; it may be when he hath seriously weighed what i have offered to the clearing of that glorious truth of the gospell , he may entertain more gentle thoughts both concerning it and mee . the rest of the chapter i have passed thorow , once and againe , and cannot fix on any thing worthy of farther debate : a difference is attempted to be found in my description of the union of a particular church , in this and another place : because in one place i require the consent of the members to walke together , in another mention only their so doing , when the mention of that only , was necessary in that place , not speaking of it absolutely , but as it is the difference of such a church from the church catholick , some impropriety of expression is pretended to be discovered : ( id populus curat scilicet : ) which yet is a pure mistake of his , not considering unto what especiall end and purpose the words are used : he repeats sundry things as in opposition to me , that are things laid down by my selfe and granted : doth he attempt to prove that the union of a church is not rightly stated : he confesseth the form of such a church consists in the obscrvance and performance of the same ordinances of worship numerically : i aske , is it the command of christ that believers should so doe ? is not their obedience to that command , their consent so to do ? are not particular churches instituted of christ ? is it not the duty of every believer to join himselfe to some one of them ? was not this acknowledged above ? can any one do so without his consenting to do so ? is this consent any thing but his voluntary submission to the ordinances of worship therein ? as an expresse consent and subjection to christ in generall is required to constitute a man a member of the church catholick visible ; so if the lord jesus hath appointed any particular church for the celebration of his ordinances ; is not their consent who are to walke in them , necessary thereunto ? but the topick of an explicite covenant , presenting its selfe with an advantage , to take up some leaves , would not be waved , though nothing at all to the purpose in hand . after this , my confession made in as much condescension unto compliance as i could well imagine , of the use of greater assēblies , is examined , and excepted against , as being in my esteem , he saith , though it be not so indeed , a matter of prudence only : but i know full well , that he knows not what esteeme or disesteem i have of sundry things of no lesse importance . the consideration of my postulata , proposed in a preparation to what was to be insisted on , in the next chapter , as influenced from the foregoing dissertations alone remaines , and indeed alone deserve our notice . my first is this . the departing of any man or men from any particular church , as to the communion peculiar to such a church , is no where called schisme , nor is so in the nature of the thing it selfe , but is a thing to be judged and recieve a title according to the circumstances of it ; to this he adjoines ; this is not the question , a simple secessiō of a man or mē upon some just occasion is not called schisme , but to make causless differences in a church , and then separating from it , as no church , denying communion with it , hath the nature and name of schisme in all mens judgments but his own . an. what question doth our reverend author meane ? i feare he is still fancying of the difference between presbyterians and independents , and squaring all things by that imagination ; whether it be a question stated to his mind or no , i cannot tell , but it is an assertion expressive of mine owne , which he may do well to disprove if he can . who told him that raising causlesse differences in a church , and then separating from it , is not in my judgment schisme ? may i possibly retaine hopes of making my selfe understood by this reverend author ? i suppose though , that a pertinacious abiding in a mistake , is neither schisme nor heresy . and so this may be passed over . my second is , one church refusing to hold that communion with another , which ought to be between them , is not schisme properly so called . the reply hereunto is twofold ▪ 1. that one church may raise differences in , and with another church , and so cause schisme . 2 that the independents deny any communion of churches , but what is prudentiall , and so that communion cannot be broken . to the first i have spoken sufficiently before ; the latter is but an harping on the same string : i am not speaking of independent churches , nor upon the principles of independents , much lesse on them , which are imposed on them ; let the reverend author suppose or aver what communion of churches he pleaseth , my position holds in reference to it , nor can he disprove it ; however for my part i am not acquaintcd with those independents , who allow no communion of churches , but what is prudentiall ; and yet it is thought , that i know as many , as this reverend author doth . upon the last proposall we are wholly agreed ; so that i shall not need to repeat it ; only he gives me a sad farewell at the close of the chapter , which must be taken notice of ; is ( saith he ) not the design of his book to prove if he could , and condemne us as no churches , let the world be judge ; and i say let all the saints of god judge ; and jesus christ will judge whither i have not outragious injury done me in this imputation ; but , saith he , unless this be proved , he can never justify his separatiō . sr. when your & our brethren told the bishops , they thanked god they were none of them , and defied the prelaticall church , did they make a separation or no ; were they guilty of schisme ? i suppose you will not say so : nor do i ; yet have i done any such thing in reference to you or your churches ; i have no more separated from you , then you have done from me ; and as for the distance which is between us upon our disagreement about the way of reformation , let all the churches of god judge , on which side it hath been managed with more breach of love , on yours or mine ; let me assure you sir , through the mercy of god in jesus christ , i can freely forgive unto you all your reproaches , revilings , hard censurings , and endeavours to expose me to publick obloquie , and yet hope that i may have before we dy , a place in your heart and prayers . chap. x. independency no schisme . we are come now to the chapter that must do the work intended , or else operam & oleum perdidimus ; independentisme a great schisme , is the title of it ; what this independentisme is , he doth neither here declare , nor in any other part of his book ; nor do i know what it is that he intends by it ; i heare indeed from him that it is a schisme , a sect , but of what peculiar import , or wherein it consists , he hath not declared ; i suppose he would have it taken for separation from true churches , but neither doth the notion of the name , though invidiously broached and disavowed by them , to whom it is ascribed , import any such thing ; nor is the thing it selfe owned by them , with whom he pretends to have to do : i find indeed that he tells us , that all sectaries are independents ; anabaptists , seekers , ranters , quakers . doth he expect that i should undertake their defence ? what if it should appear , that i have done more against them then our reverend author , and many of his brethren joined with him ; he may perhaps be willing to load my selfe and those which he is pleased to call my associats , my party , i know not what , with their evills and miscarriages . but is this done as becomes a christian , a minister , a brother ? what security hath he , that had he been the only judge and disposer of things in religion in this nation , if i and my associats had been sent to plant churches among the indians , that he should have prevented the eruption of the errors and abominations which we have been exercised withall in this generation , unlesse he had sent for duke d'alva's instruments to work his ends by ? and indeed there is scarce any sect in the nation , but had they their desires , they would take that course . this may be done by any that are uppermost if they please . but how shall we know what it is he intends by independentisme : all ( it may be ) that are not presbyterians are independents . among these some professedly separate , both frō them & us , ( for there are none that separate from them , but withall they separate from us that i know of ) because , as they say , neither theirs nor ours are true churches ; we grant them to be true churches , but withall denie that we separate from them ; is it possible at once to defend both these sects of men ? is it possible at once with the same arguments to charge them ? the whole discourse then of our reverend author being uniforme , it can concerne but one of these sects of independents : which it is , any man may judge , that takes the least view of his treatise . he deals with them that unchurch their churches , unminister their ministers , disanull their ordinances , leaving them churchless , officerlesse , and in the like sad condition : is this independentisme a schism ? though that it is properly so called , he cānot prove , yet i hope he did not expect , that i should plead for it ; what i shall do in this case , i professe , well i know not . i here denie that i unminister their ministers , unchurch their churches ; hath this author any more to say to me , or those of my perswasion ? doth not this whole discourse proceed upon a supposition that it is otherwise with them with whom he hath to do ? only i must tell him by the way , that if he suppose by this concession , that i justifie and owne their way , wherein they differ from the congregationall ministers in england , to be of christs institution , or that i grant all things to be done regularly among them , and according to the mind of christ , therein i must professe he is mistaken . in breife by independentisme he intends a separation from true churches , with condemning them to be no churches , and their ministers no ministers , and their ordinances none , or antichristian ; whatever becomes of the nature of schisme , i disavow the appearing as an advocate in the behalfe of this independentisme . if by independentisme he understand the peaceable proceeding of any of the people of god in this nation in the severall parts of it , to joine themselves by their free consent to walk together in the observation and celebration of all the ordinanees of christ appointed to be observed and celebrated in particular churches , so to reforme themselves from the disorders wherein they were intangled , being not able in some things to joine in that way of reformation , which many godlie ministers cōmonly called presbyterians , have ingaged in , and seek to promote , without judging & condemning thē as to the whole of their station or ordināces ; if this i say be intended by independentisme , when the reverend author shall undertake to prove it schisme , having not in this book spoken one word or title to it , his discourse will be attended unto . this whole chapter then being spent against them , who deny them to be true churches , and defend separation , i marvaile what can be said unto it by me , or how i come to be concerned in it , who grant them true churches , and denie separation . but our reverend author , knowing that if this bottome be taken from under him , he hath no foundation for any thing he asserts , thought it not sufficient to charg me over and over with what is here denyed , but at length attempts to make it good frō mine own words ; which if he doth effect make & good , i confesse he changes the whole nature and state of the dispute in hand : let ut see thenhow he answers this undertaking . from those words of mine , the reformation of any church , or any thing in it , is the reducing of it to its primitive institution : approving the assertion as true , he labors to evince that i deny their churches to be true churches ; how so i pray ; why we erect new churches out of no churches ; and it had been happy for england if we had all gone to do this work among the indians . what will prove englands happinesse or unhappinesse , the day will manifest ; this is but mans day and judgment . he is coming who will not judg by the seeing of the eye , nor by the hearing of the ear ; in the mean time , we blesse god , & think all england hath caus to blesse god , what ever become of us , that he and our brethren of the same mind with him , in the things of god , have their liberty to preach the gospell , and carry on the work of reformation in their native soyle , and are not sent into the ends of the earth , as many of ours have been . but how doth our gathering of churches denie them to be true churches ? doth our granting them to be true churches , also grant that all the saints in england are members of their churches ? it is notoriously known , that it is and was otherwise , and that when they , and we began : to reform , thousands of the people of god in these nations , had no reason to suppose themselves to belong to one particular church rather then another . they lived in one parish , heard in another , removed up and down for their advantage , and were in bondage on that account all their daies . but he saies in some words following i discover my very heart : i cannot but by the way tell him , that it is a sufficient evidence of his unacquaintednesse with me , that he thinks there is need of searching , and racking my words to discover my very heart , in any thing that belongs ( though in never so remote a distance ) to the worship of god . all that know me , know how open and free , i am in these things , how ready on all occasions to declare my whole heart ; it is neither fear nor favour can influence me unto another frame : but what are the words that make this noble discovery : they are these that follow : when any society or combination of men ( what ever hitherto it hath been esteemed ) is not capable of such a reduction , and revocation ( that is to its primitive institution ) i suppose i shall never provoke any wise or sober person , if i professe i cannot look on such a society as a church of christ : his reply hereunto is the hinge upon which his whole discourse turneth , and must therefore be considered . thus then he ; is not this , reader , at once to unchurch all the churches of england since the reformation ? for it is known , during the raign of the prelates they were not capable of that reduction : and what capacity our churches are now in for that reduction , partly by want of power and assistance from the magistrate , without which some dare not set upon a reformation , for fear of a praemunire , partly by our divisions amongst our selves , fomented by he knowes whom , he cannot but see as well as we lament . and hereupon he proceeds with sundry complaints of my dealing with them . and now chistian reader what shall we say to these things ? a naked supposition , of no strength , nor weight , that will not hold in any thing or case , namely that a thing is not to be judged capable of that , which by some externall force it is withheld from , is the sole bottome of all this charge . the churches of england were capable of that reduction to their primitive institution , under the prelates , though in some things hindred by them , from an actuall reducement ; so they are now in sundry places , where the work is not so much as attempted ; the sluggards feild is capable of being weeded ; the present pretended want of capacity from the non-assistance of the magistrate , whilest perfect liberty for reformation is given , and the worke in its severall degrees incouraged , will be found to be a sad plea for some , when things come to be tryed out by the rule of the gospell . and for our divisions i confesse i begin to discover somewhat more by whom they are fomented , then i did four daies agoe : for the matter it selfe . i desire our reverend author to take notice , that i judg every church capable of a reduction to its primitive institution , which , all outward hinderances being removed , and all assistances granted , that are necessary for reformation according to the gospell , may be reduced into the forme and order appointed unto a particular church by jesus christ ; and where any society is not so capable , let them call themselves what they please , i shall advise those therein , who have personally a due right to the priviledges purchased for them by jesus christ , in the way of their administration by him appointed , to take some other peaceable course to make themselves partakers of them ; and forgiving this advise i neither dread the anger nor indignation of any man living in the world : and so i suppose by this time the author knowes what is become of his , quod erat demonstrandum ; and here in room of it i desire him to accept of this return . those who in the judgment of charity were and continue , members of the church catholick invisible by vertue of their union with christ the head thereof ; and members of the generall visible church , by their due profession of the savings truths of the gospell , and subjection to christ jesus their king and saviour according to them , do walke in love and concord in the particular churches , whereof by their own consent and choice they are members , not judging and condemning other particular churches of christ , where they are not members as they are such , as to their stationand priviledges , being ready for all instituted communion with thē , as revealed are not according to any gospell rule , nor by any principles acknowledged amongst christians , to be judged or condemned as guilty of schisme ; but such are all they for whom , under any consideration what ever , i have pleaded as to their immunity from this charge , in my treatise of schisme ; therefore they are not to be judged so guilty . if you please , you may adde , quod er at demonstratum . i shall not digresse to a recharge upon this reverend author , and those of the same profession with him , as to their mistakes and miscarriages in the work of reformation , nor discusse their waies and principles , wherein i am not satisfied as to their proceduce : i yet hope for better things , then to be necessitated to carry on the defensative of the way wherein i walk by opposing theirs . it is true that he who stands upon meer defence , is thought to stand upon none at all : but i wait for better things from men , then their hearts will yet allow them , to think of . i hope the reverend author thinks , that as i have reasons wherewith i am satisfied as to my own way , so i have those that are of the same weight with me against him . but what ever he may surmise i have no mind to foment the divisions that are amongst us ; hence i willingly bear all his imputations without retortion . i know in part how the case is in the world . the greatest chargers have not alwaies the most of truth ; witnesse papists , lutherans , prelutists , anabaptists . i hope i can say in sincerity , i am for peace ; though others make themselves ready for war . but we must proceed a litle further , though as to the cause by me undertaken to be managed , causelessely . the discourse of our author from the place fixed on , wherein he faintly indeavoured to make good the foundation of this chapter , which i have allready considered , consists of two parts : 1. his animadversions on some principles which i lay down , as necessary to be stated aright and determined , that the question about gathering churches may be clearly and satisfactorily debated . some of them he saies have been handled by others ; which if it be a rule of silence to him , and me , it might have prevented this tedious debate : what ever his thoughts may be of my pamphlet , i do not fear to affirm of his treatile , that i have found nothing in it , from the beginning to the ending , but what hath lien neglected on booksellers stalls for above these seven years . for the rest of those principles , which he excepts against , as he thinks meet , i leave their consideration , to that farther enquiry , which the lord assisting i have destined them unto . the way of gathering churches upon a supposition of their antecedency to officers , he saies is very pretty , and loads it with the difficulty of mens comming to be baptized in such a case : but as i , can tell him of that which is neither true , nor pretty , in the practise of some whom he knowes , or hath reason so to do , so i can assure him that we are not concerned in his objection about baptisme , and with them who may possibly be so , it is a ridiculous thing , to think it an objection . and for that part of my enquiry , whether the church be before ordinary officers , or they before it , as sleight as he is pleased to make of it , it will be found to lie very near the bottome of all our differences , and the right stating of it , to conduce to the composure and determination of them . his charges and reflexions which he casts about in his passage , are not now to be further mentioned ; we have had them over and over ; indeed we have had little else : if strong , vehement , passionate affirmations , complaints , charges , falfe imputations , and the like , will amount to a demonstration in this businesse , he hath demonstrated independentisme to be a great schisme . he shuts up his discourse as he began it ; reciting my words by adding , interposing , perverting , commenting , enquiring , he makes them speak what he pleases , and compasses the ends of his delight upon them . what contentment he hath received in his so doing , i know not ; nor shall i expresse what thoughts i have , of such a course of proceedure : this only i shall say , it is a facile way of writing treatises and proving what ever men have a mind unto . my last taske is to look back to the beginning of this last chapter , and to gather up in our passage , what may seem to respect the businesse in hand , and so the whole matter will be dismissed . the plea insisted on for immunity from the charge of schisme , with reference to the episcopall government of the church of england , and the constitution which under it , it is pretended to have had , he passes over ; though on sundry accounts his concernments ly as deeply in it as in any thing pleaded in that treatise . the things he is pleased to take notice of , as far as they tend in the least to the issue of the debate between us , shall be reviewed . considering the severall senses wherein that expression , the church of england , may be taken , i manifest in my treatise , in which of them , and how far , we acknowledg our selves to have been , and to continue members of the church of england . the first is as it comprises the elect believers in england : what the unity of the church in this sense is , was before evinced ; our desire to be found members of this church , with our indeavour to keep the unity of it in the bond of peace , was declared . i am greived to repeat our reverend authors exceptions to this declaration ; saies he , unlesse he think , there are no members of this church in england , but those that are of his formed particular churches , i fear he will be found to break the union that ought to be between them : and why so i pray ? the union of the members of the church in this sense , consists in their joint union to & with christ their head by one spirit . what hath the reverend author to charge upon me with reference thereunto ? let him speak out to the utmost ; yea i have some reason to think that he will scarce spare , where he can strike ; god forbid that i should think all the members of the catholick church in england to be comprised either jointly or severally in their churches or ours , seeing it cannot be avoided but you will keep up those notes of division . i doubt not but there be many thousands of them who walk neither with you nor us . he adds , that by gathering saints of the first magnitude we do what lies in us , to make the invisible church visible : it is confessed , we do so ; yea we know that that church which is invisible in some respect , and under one formall consideration , is visible as to its profession , which it makes unto salvation . this , with all that lies in us , we draw them out unto : what he addes about the churches being elect , and the uncomely parts of it , which they may be for a season who are elect believers , because it must be spoken ; are uselesse cavills . for the scornfull rejection of what i affirm concerning our love to all the members of this church , and readinesse to tender them satisfaction in case of offence , with his insinuatiō of my want of modesty and truth in asserting these thoughts , because he will one day know , that the words he so despises , were spoken in sincerity , and with the reverence of the great god , & out of love to all his saints , i shall not farther vindicate them ; such hay and stubble must needs burn . my next profession of our relation to the church of england , in respect of that denomination given to the body of professours in this nation , cleaving to the doctrine of the gospell , here preached and established by law , as the publike profession of this nation . but he tels me first : 1. that many independent churches in this nation , are grosly apostatized from that doctrine , and so are hereticall . 2. that the worship was professed and protested , and established as well as the doctrine , and that we are all departed from it , and so are schismaticall : for we hold communion with them , he sayes in the same doctrine , but not in the same worship . answer . his first exception ariseth from the advantage he makes use of , from his large use of the word independent , which will serve him in his sense for what end he pleaseth . in the sense before declared his charge is denyed ; let him prove it by instance if he be able : surely god hath not given orthodox men leave to speak what they please , without due regard to love and truth . 2. as to the worship established in this nation by law , ( he means the way of worship , for the substantials of it we are all agreed in ) i suppose he will not say a relinquishment of the practice of it is schisme ; if he do , i know what use some men will make of his affirmation , though i know not how he will free himselfe from being schismaticall ; for his renewed charg of schisme , i cannot i confesse be moved at it , proceeding from him , who neither doth , nor will know what it is . his next indeavour is to make use of another concession of mine , concerning our receiving of our regeneration and new birth by the preaching of the word in england ; saying , could they make use of our preaching &c. but the truth is , when the most of us by the free grace of god received our new birth through the preaching of the word , neither they , nor we , as to the practice of our waies , were in england ; so that their concernment as such , in the concession is very small ; and we hope since in respect of others , our owne ministry hath not been altogether fruitlesse , though we make no comparison with them . in rendring of the next passage which is concerning anabaptists and anabaptisme , i shall not contend with him ; he hath not in the least impaired the truth of what i assert in reference to them and their way . i cannot but take notice of that passage which for the substance of it hath so often occurred , and that is this ; doth not himselfe labor in this booke to prove that the administration of ordinances in our assemblies is null , our ordination null and antichristian . for the proofe of which suggestion he referrs his reader to page 197 of my book . i confesse seeing this particular quotation , i was somewhat surprised , and began to feare that some expression of mine ( though contrary to my professed judgment ) might have given countenance to this mistake , and so be pleaded as a justification of all the uncharitablenesse and something else , wherewith his book is replenished ; but turning to the place i was quickly delivered from my trouble , though i must ingeniously confesse , i was cast into another which i shall not now mention . page 167. we arrive at that which alone almost i expected would have been insisted on , and quite contrary thereto , it is utterly waved ; namely the wholebusinesse of a nationall church , upon which account indeed all the pretence of the charge this reverend author is pleased to mannage , doth arise . take that out of the way , and certainly they , and we are upon even termes ; and if we will be judged by them who were last in possession of the reiglement of that church , upon supposition that there is such a church still , they are no more interested in it then we , yea are as guilty of schisme from it as we . but that being set aside and particular churches only remaining , it will be very difficult for him to raise the least pretence of his great charge . but let us consider what he thinks meete to fasten on , in that discourse of mine about a nationall church . the first thing is my inquiry , whether the denyall of the institution of a nationall church ( which he pleads not for ) doth not deny in consequence that we had either ordinances or ministry amongst us : to which i say , that though it seemes so to do , yet indeed it doth not , because there was then another church state , even that of particular churches amongst us , with many kind reflections of my renouncing my ministry and rejecting of my jejune and empty vindication of their ministry ( which yet is the very same that himselfe fixes on ) he asks me how i can in my conscience beleive , that there were any true ministers in this church in the time of its being nationall , and so proceeds to inferre from hence my denying of all ministry and ordinances among them . truly though i were more to be despised then i am ( if that be possible ) yet it were not common ▪ prudence for any man to take so much paines to make me his enemy , whether i will or no . he cannot but know that i deny utterly , that ever we had indeed , whatever men thought , a nationall church ; for i grant no such thing , as a nationall church in the present sense contended about . that in england under the rule of the prelates , when they looked on the church as nationall , there were true churches , and true ministers , though in much disorder as to the way of entring into the ministry and dispensing of ordinances , i grant freely ; which is all this reverend author , if i understand him , pleads for ; and this he saies i was unwilling to acknowledge , lest i should thereby condemne my selfe as a schismatick . truly , in the many sad differences and divisions that are in the world amongst christians , i have not been without sad and jealous thoughts of heart , lest by any doctrine or practise of mine i should occasionally contribute any thing unto them ; if it hath been otherwise with this author , i envy not his frame of spirit . but i must freely say , that having together with them , weighed the reasons for them ; i have been very little moved with the clamorous accusations , and insinuations of this author . in the meane time , if it be possible to give him satisfaction , i here let him know , that i assent unto that summe of all he hath to say , as to the church of england , namely that the true and faithfull ministers , with the people in their severall congregations , administring the true ordinances of jesus christ , whereof baptisme is one , was and is the true church state of england , from which i am not separated ; nor do i think that some addition of humane prudence , or imprudence can disanull the ordinances of jesus christ . upon the disavower made of any other nationall church state , and the assertion of this to answer all intents and purposes , i suppose now that the reverend author knowes that it is incumbent on him to prove , that we have been members of some of these particular churches in due order , according to the mind of christ , to all intents and purposes of church membership , and that we have in our individuall persons raised causelesse differences in those particular churches whereof we were members respectively , and so separated from them , with the condemnation of them ; or else according to his owne principles he failes in his brotherly conclusion : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . i suppose the reader is weary of pursuing things so little to our purpose : if he will hear any further , that independents are schismaticks , that the setting up of their way hath opened a door to all evills and confusions , that they have separated from all churches , and condemne all churches in the world but their owne ; that they have hindred reformation and the setting up of the presbyterian church ; that being members of our churches , as they are members of the nation , because they are borne in it , yet they have deserted them ; that they gather churches which they pretend to be spick and span new ; they have separated from us , that they countenance quakers , and all other sectaries , that they will reforme a nationall church whether men will or no , though they say that they only desire to reforme themselves , and plead for liberty to that end . if any man i say have a mind to read or heare of this any more , let him read the rest of this chapter , or else converse with some persons whom i can direct him to , who talke at this wholsome rate all the day long . what seems to be my particular concernment , i shall a little further attend unto . some words ( for that is the manner of mannaging this controversie ) are culled out from pag. 259. 260. to be made the matter of farther contest . thus they lie in my treatise . as the not giving a mans selfe up unto any way , and submiting to any establishment pretended or pleaded to be of christ , which he hath not light for , and which he was not by any act of his owne formerly ingaged in , cannot with any colour or pretence of reason be reckoned to him for schisme , though he may if he persist in his refusall prejudice his owne edification ; so no more can a mans peaceable relinquishment of the ordinary communion of one church in all its relations be so esteemed . these words have as yet unto me a very harmelesse aspect ; but our reverend author is sharp-sighted , and sees i know not what monsters in them : for first ( saith he ) here he seems to me to be a very sceptick in his way of independency : why so i pray ? this will gratify all sects , quakers , and all with a toleration : how i pray ? it is schisme , not toleration we are treating about . but this leaves them to judge of , as well as others , what is , and what is not according to the mind of christ , why pray sr. who is appointed to judge finally for them ? why then should they be denied their liberty ? but is that the thing under consideration ? had you concluded that their not submitting to what they have not light for its institution , is not properly schisme , you should have seen how far i had been concerned in the inference : but excursions unto quakers &c. are one topick of such discourses . but now he askes me one question , it seems to try whither i am a sceptick or no ; whether ( saith he ) does he believe his owne way to be the only true way of christ , for he hath instituted but one way , having run from and renounced all other waies in this nation . i promise you this is a hard question ; and not easily answered . if i deny it , he will say i am a sceptick , and other things also will be brought in : if i affirme it , it may be he will say that i condemne their churches for no churches , and the like : it is good to be wary when a man hath to deale with wise men ; how if i should say that our way and their way is for the substance of them , one way , and so i cannot say that my way is the only true way exclusively to theirs : i suppose this may do pretty well . but i fear this will scarce give satisfactiō , & yet i know not well how i can go any farther ; yet this i will adde ; i doindeed believe , that wherein their way and our way differ , our way is according to the mind of christ and not theirs : and this i am ready at any time ( god assisting ) personally to maintaine to him : and as for my running from waies of religion , i dare againe tell him , these reproaches and calumnies become him not at all . but he proceeds , if so , ( saith he ) is not every man bound to come into it , and not upon every conceived new light to relinquish it . truly i think mr. c. himselfe is bound to come into it , and yet i do not think that his not so doeing makes him a schismatick : and as for relinquishment i assert no more , then what he himselfe concludes to be lawfull . and thus christian reader i have given thee a briefe account of all things of any importance that i could meet withall in this treatise , and of many which are of very little ; if thou shalt be pleased to compare my treatise of schisme with the refutation of it , thou wilt quickly see , how short this is , of that which it pretends to : how untouched my principles do abide , and how the most materiall parts of my discourse are utterly passed by , without any notice taken of them . the truth is , in the way chosen by this reverend author to proceed in , men may multiply writings to the worlds end , without driving any controversy to an issue ; descanting and harping on words , making exceptions to particular passages and the like , is an easy and facile , and to some men a pleasant labour : what small reason our author had to give his book the title it bears , unlesse it were to discover his designe , i hope doth by this time appeare . much of the proofe of it lies in the repeated asseverations of it , it is so , and it is so . if he shall be pleased to send me word of one argument tending that way , that is not founded in an evident mistake , i will promise him , if i live , a reconsideration of it . in the mean time i humbly beg of this reverend author , that he would review in the presence of the lord the frame of spirit , wherein he wrote this charge ; as also that he would take into his thoughts all the reproaches , and all that obloquy he hath endeavoured to load me causlesly and falsly withall . as for my selfe , my name , reputation , and esteeme with the churches of god , to whom he hath indeavoured to render me odious , i commit the whole concernment of them to him , whose presence through grace i have hitherto injoyed , and whose promise i leane upon , that he will never leave me nor forsake me . i shall not complaine of my usage : but what am i ? of the usage of many pretious saints and holy churches of jesus christ , to him that lives and sees , any farther then by begging that it may not be laid to his charge : and if so meane a person as i am , can in any way be serviceable to him , or to any of the churches that he pleads for , in reference to the gospell of christ , i hope my life will not be deare to me that i may effect it ; and i shall not cease to pray that both he and those who promoted this worke in his hand , may at length consider the many calls of god that are evident upon them , to lay aside these unseemly animosities , and to endeavour a coalition in love , with all those who in sincerity call upon the name of the lord jesus christ , their lord and ours . for the distances themselves that are between us , wherein we are not as yet agreed ; what is the just state of them , the truth and warrantablenesse of the principles whereupon we proceed , with the necessity of our practice in conformity thereunto , what we judge our brethren to come short in , of , or wherein to go beyond the mind of jesus christ , with a farther ventilation of this businesse of schisme , i have some good grounds of expectation , that possibly ere long we may see a faire discussion of these things , in a pursuit of truth and peace . finis . schism detected in both extreams, or, two sorts of sinful separation the first part detecteth the schismatical principles of a resolver of three cases about church-communion, the second part confuteth the separation pleaded for in a book famed to be written by mr. raphson. baxter, richard, 1615-1691. 1684 approx. 237 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 43 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2006-02 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a27028 wing b1396 estc r16323 12393808 ocm 12393808 61069 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a27028) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61069) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 269:5) schism detected in both extreams, or, two sorts of sinful separation the first part detecteth the schismatical principles of a resolver of three cases about church-communion, the second part confuteth the separation pleaded for in a book famed to be written by mr. raphson. baxter, richard, 1615-1691. [5], 58, [4], 18 p. printed for tho. parkhurst ..., london : 1684. attributed to richard baxter. cf. bm. "the second part against schism being animadversions on a book famed to be mr. raphson's" (18 p. at end) has special t.p. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng raphson, -mr. christian union -england. schism. church -catholicity. 2005-07 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-10 ali jakobson sampled and proofread 2005-10 ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion schism detected in both extreams . or two sorts of sinful separation . the first part detecteth the schismatical principles of a resolver of three cases about church-communion . the second part confuteth the separation pleaded for , in a book famed to be written by mr. raphson . rom. 15. 7. receive ye one another as christ received us , to the glory of god. london : printed for tho. parkhurst , at the bible and three crowns in cheapside , near mercers chappel . 1684. the dangerous schismatick clearly detected , and fully confuted ; for the saving of a distracted nation from that which would destroy christian love and unity . occasioned by a resolver of three cases about church-communion . by richard baxter a catholique christian , who is against confining christian love and communion to any sect how great soever . mark 16. 16. he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved . john 13. 35. by this shall all men know you are my disciples , if ye have love one to another . 1 john 4. 16. he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in god , and he in him . rom. 14. 1. 17 , 18. him that is weak in the faith receive ye , but not to doubtful disputations : for the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost : for he that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable to god , and approved of men. london , printed for thomas parkhurst at the bible and three crowns at the lower end of cheapside near mercers-chappel , 1683. the english schismatick , detected and confuted : occasioned by a resolver of cases about church communion . chap. i. saith the resolver , § . 1. the church is a body or society of men separated from the rest of the world , and united to god and to themselves by a divine covenant . a. he saith this is the plainest description he can give : that is not the fault of his auditors or readers . 1. as to the genus , a community of equals without rulers is a body : but i suppose he meaneth not such . 2. is it enough that it be of men ? sure now they should be christians ? 3. many are separated from the rest of the world , secundum quid , that are no christians ; some in one respect and some in another , and none in all respects . 4. vnited to god , is an ambiguous word , no creature is vnited to him perfectly so as to be thereby what he is , god , in the created nature . only christ is united to him hypostatically in his created nature . all are so far united to him in natural being , as that in him they live and move and have their being : and the nature of man is one sort of his image : all things are united to him as effects to their constant efficient . the church should not be defined without any mention of christ : the churches union with god is by christ . 5. christ himself as head is an essential part of the church , and should not be left out of a definition , thô the meer body may in common speech be called the church , as the people may be called a kingdom . 6. will any divine covenant serve ? or must it not be only the baptismal covenant ? 7. is it called divine only as made by god , or as commanded by god and made by man , or as mutual ? certainly gods law and offered or conditional promise is most frequently called his covenant in scripture ; and this uniteth not men to god , till they consent and covenant with him . their own covenant act is necessary hereto : and that is a divine covenant , only as commanded , and accepted and done by gods assisting grace . 8. the form of a church is relative , and the terminus is essential to a relation . it is no definition that hath not the end of the association : therefore this is none at all ; and so the beginning tells us what to expect . this description hath nothing in it ▪ but what may agree to divers forms of society , and so hath not the form of a church : and if he intended not a definition , but a loose description , i would a defining doctor had had the chair , during this controversie . let us try this description upon a mahometan kingdom , army , or navy , or suppose them meer deists . 1. such a kingdom , army , or navy may be a society . 2. of men. 3. separated from the rest of the world secundum quid & ad hoc ( and none are separated from it simpliciter & ad omnia : e. g. no man is separated from the common humanity , no deist from any but atheists , and no christian in believing a god and the law of nature and nations . ) 4. they are vnited to god so far as owning a god and worshipping him amounts to , besides the union of the creature with the creator in whom he liveth , &c. and no unregenerate ungodly christian is united to him savingly . 5. they are united among themselves . 6. this is by a covenant : 7. and by a covenant divine , as to command , approbation and object . it is god that they covenant to own and obey : the common profession of the mahometans , is , there is one god , and mahomet is his prophet . it is divine in tantum as commanded . for god commandeth all men to own him ; to believe that god is , and that he is the rewarder of them that diligently seek him : and god so far approveth it : st. james saith , ( thou dost well ) to him that believeth there is a god , much more that is professedly devoted to him . let us by this examine the jewish church : jews now may be 1. a body , 2. of men , 3. separated from the rest of the world , even in religion and church pretensions . 4. united to god as creatures , as men , as the corporal seed of abraham , and as professing belief , love and obedience to god , as their god. 5. strictly united among themselves : 6. by a covenant , 7. which god once commanded , and still approveth so far as they own god. let us consider whether this description take not in , those in every nation that fear god and work righteousness , that never heard of christ , ( being thus combined . ) and whether the kingdom of god , be not larger than his church : joyn the head and tail of this mans book together , and by the head ( the description ) for ought i see , jews , mahometans , if not almost ; all heathens , are the church : but at the end , i think none on earth is the church : at least none that separate from a pair of organs , or an ignorant curate ; nor can any man know who . page 2. § . 2. he explaineth his word [ body ] as opposed to a confused multitude . a. but a community of equals , that have no governours , may have order , and be no confused multitude . and he himself after pleads over much for ●●●●necessity of rulers . p. 3. § . 3. and in many places , his confusion and grand errour is repeated , that the christian church is but one : p. 7. we know no church but what all christians are members of by baptsme , which is the vniversal church ; p. 8. there is but one church , of which all christians are members , as there is but one covenant ; p. 19. if there be but one church and one communion , of which all true christians are members , &c. p. 23. i am no otherwise a member of any particular church , than i am of the vniversal : p. 40. it 's a schismatical notion of membership that divides the christian church into distinct memberships , and therefore into the distinct bodyes : and. p. 19. and often he saith , those churches which are not members of each other , are separate churches and schismaticks . a. i had hoped that no man but mr. cheny had talkt at this rate . i. it 's agreed on , that there is but one universal church : the contrary is a contradiction . 2. it is agreed , that there is no lawful particular church which is not a part of the universal . 3. that whoever hath just union and communion with a true particular church , hath union and communion with the universal : 4. that all men in their worship of god , should accordingly perform it ( and do all that they do ) as men in that relation to the universal church : none of this is controverted . ii. but i had hoped never to have heard any but seekers say , that there are not many lawful particular churches , distinct from the whole and from one another , though not disjunct in the common essentials . for the proof of the contrary , 1. i begin with that which i expect should be most powerful ; the mans own after-confessions , to which he is oft brought . pag. 8. distance of place and the necessities and conveniences of worship and discipline , has divided the church into several parts and members , and particular churches , &c. so pag. 14. pag. 19. all christian churches ought to be members of one . more fully p. 20 , 21. this is ad hominem , yea and nay is his resolution . 2. but i 'le bring other arguments that prevail more with me . the sacred scriptures oft tell us of many churches , therefore there are many . act. 9. 31. the churches had rest ; and 15. 4. confirming the churches ; 16. 5. so were the churches established in the faith ; rom. 16. 4. all the churches of the gentiles : so ver . 16. 1 cor. 7. 17. so ordain i in all churches ; 11. 16. neither the churches of god ( have such custom ; ) 14. 33. as in all the churches of the saints ; 34. let your women keep silence in the churches . so 16. 1. 19. & 2 cor. 8. 1. the grace of god bestowed on the churches of macedonia : 18. whose praise is in the gospel through all the churches . so 19. 23 , 24. and 11. 8. 28. the care of all the churches ; 12. 13. inferior to the other churches . gal. 1. 2 , 22. 1 thes . 2. 14. 2 thes . 1. 4. rev. 1. 4. to the seven churches , ver . 11. 20. angels and candlesticks of the seven churches . and 2. 7 , 11 , 17 , 29. and 3. 6 , 13 , 22 , 23. and 22. 16. his concordance might have shew'd him all these in order , phil. 4. 15. no church communicated with me ( concerning giving and receiving ) but ye only . the dispute now must be , whether the apostles or this resolver be to be believed : they say there are many churches , parts of one ; he saith , there is but one , and it 's schismatical to divide it into distinct memberships or bodyes , &c. it 's no schisme here to say , i am for paul and the holy scripture : let who will believe the contradictor . 3. my next argument is this : where there are many political societies , consisting of christian pastors and people , professedly associated for the ordinary exercise of those relations as such , in holy communion , in christian doctrine , worship , order and conversation , for edification in true faith , hope , love and obedience , and the glorifying of god therein . there are many distinct true churches , parts of the church universal ; but on earth there are many such societyes , &c. ergo , &c. either the controversie is de re or de nomine ( for we called separatists use to separate these . ) 1. if de re ; let the existence of the thing defined be tryed by scripture , reason and common experience : 2. if de nomine ; forma quae dat esse dat nomen : here is the true specifick form which is found in many single churches , ergo the name of such single ( or individual ) churches is due to them . 4. again ad hominem , from the consequences : 1. if there be not many single churches in the universal , then there are not many patriarchal , national , provincial , metropolitical , diocesan , or parochial churches : for non entium non datur numerus : many nothings is a contradiction multae sunt ergo sunt ; ab est tertij adjecti ad est secundi valet argumentum . but if there be not many , then 1. all the parish churches in england being but one , and not many , a patron can have right to present to no one as a church , more than to another . 2. then the parson , vicar or curate is no more the parson of one church than of another ; nor bound to no more care and duty ; for there is but one . 3. then no one is bound to go to one parish church more than another ; for there is but one . 4. then the temple and tithes belong no more to one than another . 5. then no bishop is the proper bishop of one diocesan church , more than of another . 6. then all the revenues of the bishop of london , are no more appropriate to one church than to another . 7. then you owe no more obedience to the bishops of one diocesan church than another : 8. then you make the king no more head or governour of the church of england , than of another . 9. then a diocesan oweth no reverence to a metropolitane chruch ( if there be none such . ) 10. then many churches cannot have communion nor send bishops to councils ; ( if there be not many ) 11. and the charge of separation from a church that is no church , is a contradiction . 5. i adde , from parity of reason , if many distinct subordinate societies may make one civil body politick , so they may one universal church : but the antecedent is undoubted . if it be learnedly said with mr. cheny , that one whole cannot be part of another whole ; one may attain the perfection by that time he hath worn the breeches but a few years , to know that a whole family may be part of a whole village , and a whole vicinage be part of a whole city , and a whole colledge be part of a whole university ; and a whole city part of a whole kingdom ; and a whole kingdom part of the whole earth . and if it be objected , that the names of the whole and parts are here divers ; but a church and a church are the same name . i answer , at the same age one may learn that the same name proveth not the sameness of the things named ; and that ex penuria nominum the genus and species , the totum and parts have oft equivocally the same name , with the addition of just notes of distinction . sometimes an academy of many school is called schola , and so are the single schools therein : the city of london is a society ; and so are the societies of merchant-taylors , drapers , mercers , &c. therein . § . 4. but these churches must be members of one another , or they are schismaticks . a. 1. how can that be , if they be all but one . 2. this is also above or below the ferula age . they are no members of one another , but all members of the whole : yet how oft have we this with the sting of schisme ( as damning as murder of adulter ) in the tail of it . the hand is not a member or part of the foot , or the foot of the hand , or the liver a member of the lungs , &c. but each one of the man : if ever i were a schoolmaster again , i would perswade may boyes , that a is not a member of b , nor b of c , &c. but each of the alphabet ; and that one leaf of their book is not a member of another , but both of the book ; and if they were ripe for the university , i would perswade them that exeter colledge is not a member of corpus christi , nor that of lincoln , &c. but all of the universitie of oxford . and i think that bristol is not a member of exeter or gloucester , &c. but all of england ; and that the company of stationers are not part of the society of merchants or drapers , &c. but all of london . what a priviledg is it , that a man may believe this about any such thing without schisme and damnation ! and how dreadful to fall into such church-mens hands that in their case make it schisme , separation and damnation . but there is a remedy . § . 5. but he hath reason for what he saith : p. 3 , 4. [ indeed it is extreamly absurd and unreasonable , to say , that the christian church , which is built on the same foundation , &c. who enjoy all priviledges in common , should be divided into as distinct and separate bodies , thô of the same kind and nature , as peter , james and john are distinct persons — it 's absurd to say , that where every thing is common there is not one community . ans . let us not swallow this without chewing : 1. whether all be extreamly absurd and unreasonable which such doctors call so ; i am grown to doubt as much as whether all be schism which schismaticks call so : ipse dixit is no proof . 2. what the meaning of this great , decantate word [ separate ] is ; must anon be enquired : but , may not churches be distinct and not culpably separate ? he confesseth afterwards both local distinction and separation . 3. how far are the vniversal church and particular churches distinct ? as whole and parts ? must the world at last learn that whole and parts are not distinct ? if you take it for absurd to distinguish a man from a body , or from a liver , hand or foot , dissenters do not ; nor to distinguish a colledge from an university , a house from a street , a street from a city , &c. but how are the particular churches distinguished one from another ? reader , so constantly do such men fight with themselves , that it 's meet to ask , whether they that thus say there are not many distinct churches , do not assert a far wider difference between many , than those they dissent from . we affirm that there are many , and that they differ not in specie , but numero , as colledges , cities do among themselves ; but these men , after all this , hold not only a numerical , but a specifick difference , even as parochial , diocesan , provincial , patriarchal , national ; at least presbyters and diocesans differing ordine vel specie with them , the church denominated from them must do so too . § 6. but he confirms it . [ peter , james and john , thô they partake of the same common nature , yet each of them have a distinct essence and subsistence of their own , and this makes them distinct persons ; but where the very nature and essence of a body or society consists in baving all things common , there can be but one body . ans . i hope it s no culpable separation to distinguish things as differing specie & numero ; and this is the doctors meaning , if his words are significant : and the common way of expressing it would have been , [ peter and john differ numerically but not in specie ; but two churches differ neither specie nor numero . ] and 1. reader , whereas he said before , that the church is not divided into distinct bodies , as james and john , &c. ] did you think till now , that james and john , and the doctor , and the several bishops had not been distinct parts of the church in their distinct natural bodies ? 2. and why may there not be distinct politick bodies , or compound in one whole as well as natural ? certainly , all things corporeal save attomes are compounds : a muscle , a hand , a foot , parts similar and dissimilar in man are all compounded of lesser parts . if many students may make one colledge , why may not many colledges make one university ? it 's strange if a doctor deny this . 3. but let us consider of his reason , and enquire 1. whether the church have all things common . 2. whether the very essence of it consist in this . i. it is granted that the whole essence of the genus and species is found in every individual of that species , natural or politick ; but did we ever hear , till mr. cheny and this doctor said it , that politick bodies differ not numero as well as natural ? the kingdom of england and of france are two ; the church of rome and constantinople long strove which should be uppermost , but who ever said that they were not two ? ii. have they all things common ? dissenters would have excepted wives and husbands , ( thô the canons called apostolical do not ; ) why should the essence of a church lie in this , and not the essence of a city or kingdom ? tories in ireland would have all common ; merchants and tradesmen , knights , lords and princes here would not . but it 's no schism here also to distinguish simpliciter & secundum quid , propriety and the use of propriety : there is no community without propriety : men have first a propriety in themselves , their members , their food , the acquests of their labours , their wives and children , and goods . and they consent to community to preserve this propriety , because every man loveth himself : and yet they must use their propriety , ( even of life ) for common good , because all are better than one : but if they had no propriety they could not so use it for the common-wealth . and i never conformed to the doctrine that denyeth propriety in church members and particular churches , and thought all simply common . i 'le tell you what particular churches have to individuate them , not common to all . 1. they consist of individual natural persons , many of which as much differ from many other persons , ( those in england from those in spain ) as one man doth from another . 2. their graces and gifts are numerically distinct ( faith , hope , love , &c. ) from those of other churches thô ejusdem speciei . 3. england and france , london and oxford , have churches of different place and scituation : 4. but the formal individuating difference is their nearest relation to their several pastors ; as several kingdoms , cities , schools are numerically distinct by their distinct kings , maiors , school-masters , so are several churches ejusdem speciei . 1. thess . 5. 12 , 13. know those that are among you and over you in the lord , and esteem them highly in love for their works sake . as every mans wife , children and servants must be used for the common good , and yet are not common , one mans wife and children are not anothers ; so the bishop of london , of oxford &c. must govern his church for the good of the universal ; but he is not the bishop of gloucester , norwich , paris , rome . these are differences enow to constitute a numerical difference of churches : paul distinguisheth the bishops of philippi , ephesus ▪ &c. from others . do you yet see no priviledges that one hath proper , and not common to all ? none that make a difference in specie , but both ●●●●umerical and gradual . 1. all churches have not bishop jewel , bishop andrews , doctor stillingfleet , doctor sherlock to be their teachers : air churches be not taught all that 's in this resolver . 2. all churches have not men of the same soundness nor excellency of parts : it was once taken for lawful to account them specially worthy of double honour who laboured in the word and doctrine , and to esteem men for their works sake . paul saith of timothy , i have no man like minded . if those that heard not a sermon in many years differed not from your congregation , why do you preach ? i am reproached in print for telling the world this notorious truth ; that i lived till ten years old , where four men , four years hired successively were readers and school-masters ; two preached ( as it was called ) once a month , the other two never : two drank themselves to beggery . after i lived where many parishes about us had no preachers : the parish that i lived in , had a church with a vicar that never preached , and a chappel with a parson eighty years old , that had two livings twenty miles distant , and never preacht : his son a reader and stage-player was sometime his curate : his grand-son , my school-master , his curate next that , never preacht in his life , but drunk himself to beggery . one year a taylor read the scripture , and the old man ( the best of them all ) said the commmon-prayer without book ( for want of sight . ) the next year a poor thresher read the scripture . after that a neighbours son ( my master ) was curate , who never preacht but once , and that when he was drunk , ( in my hearing ) on mat. 25. come ye blessed , and go ye cursed ; ] the saddest sermon that ever i heard . these things were no rarities : now my assertion is , that the church that had such as austin , chrysostome , jewel , andrews , and such worthy men as london now hath many , had priviledges distinct from these , ( and many the like ) that i was in . if you say that every bishop and preacher is as much the bishop and preacher to all other single churches , as to that which is his title ; then 1. he must be condemned for not teaching them all . 2. then he may claim maintenance from them all . 3. then he may intrude into any mans charge . 4. then no church is unchurcht for want of a bishop , for any one bishop is bishop to every church in the world ; and so ubi episcopus ibi ecclesia , signifieth but that church and bishop are on the same earth ; and ecclesia est plebs episcopo adunata may be verified if there be but one in the world. 5. and so mr. dodwell and such are self-confuted before you are aware : geneva , holland , and all presbyterians are true churches , for they have all bishops ; e.g. the bishop of london is bishop to them all : for if one man be no more a member of one single church than of another , and so no more a subject to one bishop than to another , then one bishop is no more pastor of one church than of another . 7. and how can you magnifie the church of england for a wise , learned , pious clergy above other churches , if all priviledges be common , and they have no proper pastors of their own . 8. do you think that the church , e. g. of hippo , that was in austins dayes , was the same numerical single church with that which is there now , ( were there any ) or with the diocesan church of london ? if not , then at least distance of time , and change of persons maketh divers particular churches ; and it 's no more against the unity of the church universal to have divers particular churches in it in the same age , than in divers ages . in short , diversity of matter and form maketh a numerical diversity ( as of natural , so ) of politick bodies of the same species : but the churches of ephesus , smyrna , thyatira , philadelphia &c. were of divers matter and form numerically ; ergo they were divers political churches . sure god doth not commend laodicea for philadelphia's church virtues , nor condemn the church of philadelphia for the other churches sins . and if the angels be bishops , why are some bishops praised as the bishops of such churches , and the bishops of other churches threatned . but i confess this is a ready way to end the controversies between the bishops of several churches which shall be greatest , if they be all but one . but i hope that when the bishop of rome and his church was corrupted , it is not true that every bishop and church fell with him , ( or with any that hath turned to mahumetanism . ) to be no longer on this , ( which i thought no prelatist would ever have put me on ) if these men speak not notoriously against scripture , against the constant language of canons and fathers , historians and lawyers , and all antiquity , and all christian countreys and divines , ( yea , even those that at trent would have had only the pope to be of immediate divine right ) then i know not any thing by reading . and if poor nonconformists must be put to defend themselves against such singularities , and be schismaticks unless they will differ from all the christian world of all ages , there is no remedy . § 7. but p. 5 , 6. he tells us , [ that a church is made by a divine covenant — god only can constitute a church : such persons , if there be any so absurd , are not worth disputing with , who dare affirm the church to be an humane creature , or the invention of men . — and no church can depend on humane contracts ; for then a church would be a humane creature and constitution , whereas a church can be founded only on a divine covenant — 1. who would think but this man were a nonconformist , that talks so like them ( e. g. amesius in medul . theol. ) against humane church forms ? but what then will bishop bilson , and almost all other bishops and christians be thought of , who affirm patriarchal and metropolitical churches ( and many of the diocesane ) to be but humane constitutions and inventions . and if these be not worth the disputing with , it seems , that you differ from them more than separatists do : and then were not all these schismaticks ? and then , are not you a schismatick if you communicate with them ? yea , your mr. dodwel himself maketh diocesan churches to be a humane creature ; and a. bishop bromhall much pleadeth for mans power to make patriarchal churches ; and so do such others . 2. but is it true that humane contracts make not a church ? ans . not alone : but i think that all churches are made by mutual contracts , and humane is one part of that which is mutual . 1. as to the vniversal church , 1. god as legislator and donor , instituteth the species of covenanting by baptism , and therein he commandeth mans consent to his offered covenant ; and conditionally promiseth to be our god : but , conditionale nihil ponit in esse : this much maketh no christian , nor church . to command a man to be a christian , and conditionally to promise him life if he will be one , proveth him not to be one ; else all were christians that reject an offered christ . 2. but when man consenteth and covenanteth with god , then gods conditional gift becomes actual and efficacious , the man being a capable recipient , and not before : and in this it is the contract that is the fundamentum relationis ; but a single promise is not a mutual covenant or contract . so that it is no wiser divinity to say , gods covenant and not mans consent , covenant or contract with god , doth make christians , and the universal church ; than it is sober reason to say , that gods institution of marriage or magistracie only doth make the relation of husband and wife , without their covenanting consent , or doth make common-wealths , without the consent or covenant of sovereign and subjects . did this doctor think that voluntariness is not as necessary to the relation of christianity as to the relation of prince and subjects ; yea , or of husband and wife ? if he do , he is shamefully mistaken . baptism delivereth men possession of pardon , grace and right to glory ; and can men have this against their wills ? one would think by the doctrine and course of some men , that they could force men to pardon and salvation ! if i believed that their force could accomplish this , i would never call it persecution . if they can force men to be true christians , they may force them to be justifyed and saved ; and then they are very uncharitable if they do not : let them then cease preaching and disputing us to their opinion , but bring us all to heaven whether we will or not . yea the self-contradictor , playing fast and loose , confesseth p. 6. that no man at age can be admitted to baptism , till he profess his faith in christ , and voluntarily undertake the baptismal vow : and is not that humane covenanting ? yea , he knoweth that the liturgie maketh even neighbours or strangers , vow and covenant , both in the name of the child and for the child . and so necessary doth the episcopal church think humane covenanting , that without this no child must be baptized publickly though the parents would covenant , and that they can neither for love nor money ( for many poor men hire godfathers ) get any one ( much less three ) who examined , will seriously purpose to perform the covenant for the child 's holy education which they make . ii. but is not humane covenanting a cause of single church relation as well as of universal ? i see no cause to doubt it ; and i am sure that the church for a thousand years ( before and since popery came in ) have declared him no bishop that comes in without consent of clergie and people ; which consent is their covenanting act . to make a single church , manifold consent goeth to the fundamentum relationis . 1. god commandeth single church officers , order and consent , and promiseth them his blessing where they are met : the lord and his angels are among them : no command is vain , and without a virtual promise . 2. to this a threefold humane consent is needful , ordinarily : 1. the persons called . 2. the ordainers ( when it may be had . ) 3. the peoples . he that formerly , from the apostles dayes , for a thousand years , should have said , that neither the covenanting , that is the consent of the pastor , or people , or ordainers , is necessary to the fundamentum of a single church relation or form , would have been taken for a wild-brain'd schismatick at least . § 8. but saith this doctor ( and another of them ) [ p. 6. but the independent church covenant between pastor and people , is of a very different nature from this : vnless any man will say , that the voluntary contract and covenant which the independents exact from their members , and wherein they place a church state , be part of the baptismal vow ; if it be not , then they found the church upon a humane covenant ; for christ hath made but one covenant with mankind which is contained in the vow of baptism ; if it be , then no man is a christian but an independent . ans . alas for the church that is taught at this rate ! 1. i never saw what independents do in this case ; but i think none of them that are sober own any other sort of church but the universal , and single churches as members of it , and therefore require no contract but 1. to the covenant of baptism or christianity . 2. to the duties of their particular church-relation . 2. and nothing is here of necessity but manifested consent ( which is a real contract ) but a clearer or a darker , an explicite or implicate consent differ only ad melius esse . 3. is not god the author of magistracy , marriage , &c. and is it any violation of gods part , if rulers and people , husband and wife be covenanters by his command ? 4. is it any renuntiation of baptism to promise at ordination to obey the arch-bishop and bishop , and to take the oath of canonical obedience ? is it not still exacted ? are not the takers of it obliged ? are not covenants imposed on all that will be ministers in the act of uniformity ? are not multitudes kept out and cast out for not making these covenants ? quo teneam nodo , &c. how should one deal with such stippery men ? good mr. zachary cawdry that wrote to have all men to covenant submission to bishops and parish ministers , did not dream that it was any violation of baptism . 5. do not men owe duty to their pastors which they owe to no others ? if not , put them not on it : why are you angry with them for going from you ? why doth the canon suspend those that receive them to communion from another parish that hath no preacher ? why are we ruined for not covenanting as aforesaid ? if yea , then is it against baptism to promise to do our duty ? 6. but hath god commanded or instituted no covenant but baptism ? yes sure , the matrimonial at least ; and i think ordination is covenanting for the ministry : did not the apostle acts 14. 23. ordain elders in every church ? if you would have [ by suffrage ] left out of the translation , no sober man can doubt but it was by the peoples consent ; and was it without their consent that titus was to ordain elders in every city ? could any then come otherwise in ? did not all churches hold and practise this after , and was it none of gods institution ? if so , god requireth us not to take any of you for our bishops or pastors : who then requireth it ? what meaneth paul when he saith , they gave up themselves to the lord and to us , by the will of god. 7. can the wit of man imagine how it is possible without consent , for a man to be made the pastor of any flock ? who ever ordained a man against his will ? or for any man to have title against his will , to the proper oversight and pastoral care of any one pastor , or the priviledges of any church ? if any think they may be cramm'd and drencht with the sacrament , or that an unwilling man may have a sealed pardon and gift of salvation delivered him , he will make a new gospel . and how any particular pastor is bound to give that man the sacrament ordinarily , that consents not ordinarily to receive it of him , i know not . no man is a member of any city , or any company of free-men in the city , but by mutual consent ; and the oath of allegiance and supremacy to the king maketh not the oath of a citizen as such or of a member of a company as such , unlawful . 8. doth this doctor think that he ever yet proved to sober men , that the covenant aforesaid , of godfathers and godmothers , to make christians , and members of the universal church , is more ( or so much ) of gods institution , than the contract or consent between bishops or pastors and people to make a single political church ? 9. if it follow not , that no man is the kings subject that sweareth not to the city ; it will not follow , that none is a christian , but an independent , or church-consenter . 10. how are your parish or diocesan church members known to your selves or any others ? are all that dwell in the parish or diocess your church members ? then atheists , sadducees , hobbists , and all vicious men and thousands that never communicate , are such : yea those that you call separatists . if it be every transient communicant , have you a proper pastoral care of every travellers soul that so communicates with you ? you after plead that his very ordinary communion maketh him not a member , if he be unwilling to be one . and is not his consent then necessary ? or if ordinary communion be the test ( how few then of great parishes are of the church ) yet that is because such communion signifieth their consent to your over-sight of them . § 9. but it 's much to be approved which p. 5. and oft he saith , that to be taken into covenant with , god , and to be received into the church is the very same thing , as to the universal church . by which all his gross schismatical accusations after wards are confuted . no , man then is out of the church that is not out of the baptismal covenant , either by not taking it , or by renouncing some essential part of it ? and when will he prove , that to take him , rather than dr. bates that was cast out , to be a teacher or pastor at dunstans , or to take this man and not another to be the lawful bishop or priest , and to obey him in every oath and ceremony , is an essential part of the baptismal covenant , or of christianity ? but ; such a rope of sand , as mr. dodwell and this man tye together , to bind men to their sect , will serve turn with some that know not who speaks truth , by any surer way than prejudice . § 10. his doctrine of separation and gathering churches out of churches is anon to be considered : but whereas he addes , p. 7. [ these men convert christians from common christianity , and the communion of the vniversal church to independency . ] ans . my acquaintance with them is small , save by reading their books : and there are few men of any common denomination ( episcopal , or other ) that are not in many things disagreed . but i must in charity to them say , that as far as i can judge by their writings or speech , he palpably slandereth them ; and that none that are grave and sober among them do separate their churches from the common christianity or the universal church , any more than the company of stationers , ironmongers , &c. are separated from the city of london , or london from england , or trinity colledge from the university of cambridge or oxford . i never met with man , and i am confident never shall do , that doth not take his independent church to be part of the universal , and dependent as a part on the whole . if belying others stopt at words , the wrong were small : but when it 's made but the stairs to hatred and destroying , it 's his way to cure schism that is commonly painted with horns and cloven feet . if a man come from a countrey village and be made by covenant a citizen of london , how prove you that he renounceth king or kingdom ? but he saith , p. 9. those who wilfully separate from the corporation to which the charter was granted , forfeit their interest in the charter . ans . what reader doth this man presume upon that will not ask him , how he proveth 1. that gods law or charter to his church doth not require them to congregate in distinct single churches ( as london charter doth to erect several companies , and the universities several colledges ? ) 2. and that god hath not in his word given order or command for such single churches : but that the apostles and titus by fixing elders to their several churches and cities , separated from the universal church ? 3. and that their subordinate churches have not need of distinct subordinate consent and duty : and that our diocesan churches all separate from the universal ? did he think these things need no proof at all ? it may be he will say that the diocesan depend on the vniversal , but the presbyterian or independent do not . i answer , dependance is either that of subjects on soveraign or magistrates for government , or that of a community of equals for communion . in the former respect they depend on none but christ as universal soveraign , nor on any foriegners for governments : in the latter , they depend on all true churches for communion : and doctor hammond and most diocesans hitherto have said that diocesan churches are thus far independent or national at most . and if any be for a forreign jurisdiction , in charity before they perswade england to it , they should procure them a dispensation from all the oaths , that have sworn all this kingdom against endeavouring any change of government , and against a foreign jurisdiction : for some fanaticks now dream that per is the mark of the beast , and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which is the number of his name , is nominal as well as numeral , and refers to [ ch-urch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( and ) s tate ] ( for as for them that find a mans name in them , i abhorr their exposition more . ) §11 . p. 9. [ god ( saith he ) hath not made any covenant in particular with the church of geneva , france or england , &c. a. 1. god hath made one general law , for christians congregating with their fixed elders or bishops in particular churches all the world over : and his command is not without promise of being with them to the end of the world ; and that promise becometh a promise to every church so congregate . god hath not made distinct laws or promise to every christian : but the promise to justifie all believers justifieth each single person when he believeth . if the king should make one common law to command all his subjects that are freeholders to live in corporations or hundreds , described with their priviledges , those priviledges would be all theirs that are so incorporated : as one charter may priviledge every london company , diversified by subordinate agreements . 2. and that god who will have them thus incorporated and distributed into several single churches , doth covenant ( or promise ) according to their demerits to each . do i need to recite the peculiar promises and threats to the seven asian churches , rev. 2. and 3. which are covenants to them ? § 12. next pag. 10. he will tell us what communion is , and in many words , it is to tell us that communion is nothing but vnion : i know that quoad notationem nominis , communion may signifie , vnion with others : but they that write politicks have hitherto distinguished . vnion and communion , taking communion for actual communication , or exercise of the duties of men in union ? but to speak cross to other writers on the same subjects and give no reason for it , and to confound vnion and communion , is one part of this edifying resolution . § . 13. pag. 11. [ our communion with the church consists in being members of the church , which we are made by baptism , ] ( saith he . ) then the baptized are still in communion with the church , till their baptism be nullified : and hath he proved us apostates ? § . 14. pag. 12. should any man who is no member of the church , nor owns himself to be so , intrude into the church and communicate in all holy offices , it 's . no act of communion , &c. a. i thought communicating ordinarily in holy office , had gone for an owning of communion : if it do not , would you would tell us how to know who are of your church . § . 15. p. 13. saith he ( church-communion does not consist in particular acts of communion , which can be performed among those who are present and neighbours , but in membership : now as a member is a member of the whole body ( not meerly of any part of it , &c. ) all the subjects of england who never saw nor converst with each other , are members of the same kingdom . ] a. 1. that word [ meerly ] hath more craft than justice or honesty : meerly signifieth only i suppose ; and if he would make his reader think that they that are for single church peculiar membership and consent , do take themselves to be [ meerly or only ] members of those single churches , and not of the universal , it is shameless injury . 2. will he ever draw men to conformity by making them believe , that because they owe common communion to all christians , therefore we owe no special duty to the bishops , priests , churches or neighbours where we are setled ? do the men of one colledge , school , corporation , owe no more duty to that than to all others ? do the free-holders of bedford-shire choose knights for middlesex ; or the citizens of oxford choose officers in london ? these seem strange resolutions to us . 3. but doth he remember that [ if communion consist not in acts , of communion to such , but in membership even with the distant , ] then he that is baptized , and no apostate , and performeth no other acts of communion to the bishops , parson or people where he liveth , than he is bound to perform to them a hundred or thousand miles off , is no separatist . methinks this favours separation too much . § . 16. pag. 14. when he denyed any divine covenant to make us members of particular churches distinguish't from the universal ( as all national , diocesan and parochial are , as parts from the whole ) he presently confuteth all again , saying [ the exercise of church communion , as to most of the particular duties and offices of it must be confined to a particular church and congregation ( for we cannot actually joyn in the communion of prayers and sacraments , &c. but with some particular church . ] a. oportuit fuisse memorem , — 1. reader , doth not this man here confess that there are particular churches ? 2. if these be not distinct from the whole , then each particular is the whole . 3. if the exercise must be in particular churches , must not men consent to their relations and duties ? is it a sin to promise duty ? 4. sure it is not meer place , but a mutual relation of pastors and people that distinguisheth these churches . the presbyterians preach't once in the same places that you do , and yet you take them not for the same church pastors . if one from york or cornwall come into your pulpit without consent , do people stand as much related to him as to you ? some men are of extraordinary sufficiency to resist and conquer the clearest evidence of truth . but he addes [ every act of communion thô performed to some particular church , is and must be an act of communion with the whole catholick church . ] a. and who denyeth this ? no sober independent or presbyterian that ever i met with . it 's a weighty truth . § . 17. p. 14. saith he [ praying , and hearing and receiving the lords supper together doth not make us more in communion with the church of england than with any other true and orthodox part of the church , thô in the remotest part of the world. ] a. i think that 's not true : with the remotest parts you have only catholick communion with the church universal : in england and london you have that and more ; even special subordinate communion with your own king , bishop and flock . 2. and hath not the church of england such communion in obedience to its own laws ; ( as the act of uniformity , ) convocation and canons , which you have not with all abroad ? do your bishops in convocation make canon laws for all the world ? do you swear canonical obedience as much to the bishop of paris , or haffnia , &c. as to your ordinary ? do the canons of all churches impose our liturgy , or ipso facto excommunicate all that affirm any thing in it , or our ceremonies or church government , to be against gods word ? sure this is a peculiar kind of communion . 3. if not , why are all the nonconformists cast out that offer to officiate and communicate on such terms as are common to all sound churches ? pag. 15. saith he [ there is nothing in all these acts of communion which does more peculiarly unite us to such a particular church than to the whole christian church . ] a. what , neither in these acts nor any other ! then we are no more bound to hear you , or maintain you as our pastor , than to hear and maintain the whole christian church . § . 18. p. 20. saith he [ there is no other rule of catholick communion for private christians , but to communicatee in all religious offices and all acts government and discipline with christians those with whom they live . a. 1. elsewhere you added [ sound and orthodox : ] else they that live with arians , socinians , papists ( in spain , france , italy , &c. ) are bound to communicate with them in all religious offices and obey them . 2. this concludeth , that where presbytery or independency is the way of the place where we live , all must thus communicate and obey . the king and custom then may make any way to become our duty . 3. if you tell us that it 's only with the sound and orthodox , you were as good say nothing , unless you tell us who must judge that , whether the people themselves , or who for them . 4. but if this be the only rule for private christians , what shall they do , e. g. in aethiopa , egypt , syria , and many other countreys where the churches are such as general councils and other churches judge hereticks or schismaticks ? and what shall they do , when at antioch , alexandria , constantinople , &c. one party is uppermost ( by the judgment of councils and prince ) one year , and another contrary party the next . and what shall they do where the prince equally tolerateth both , and it 's hard to know which is the more numerous ? as in zeno's and anastasius reign , &c. and what shall they do when many churches in one city are of divers tongues , as well as customs ? have the greeks , french and dutch in london no rule of catholick communion but communicating in all offices with the english , and obeying all your bishops court ? § . 19. p. 21. saith he [ distinct and particular churches ▪ which are in communion with each other , must have their district bounds and limits , as every member has it's natural and proper place , and situation in the body . ] a. why may not the greeks ; dutch and french live in communion with the churches london though they live dispersedly among them ! in brandenburg , hassia , and many free cities , and belgia , where lutherans and calvinists ( as called ) live together , and own each other as brethren , why may not both be churches of christ ? § . 20. p. 21 , 22. a great deal more he hath of the like , making schismaticks at his pleasure . [ this is plain in the case of the presbyterian and independent churches and those other conventicles — they are churches in a church , — nothing can justifie the distinction of christians into several churches , but only such a distance of place as makes it necessary , &c. p. 22. distinct churches in the same place can never be under the same communion . a. these things are repeated so oft , and the word [ separate ] so deceitfully rolled over and over , that i will answer all together under his third case at the end. § . 21. p. 27. see how openly he recanteth most aforesaid : there is a sence indeed wherein we may be said to be members of one particular church considered as distinct from all other particular churches : but that principally consists in government and discipline . every christian is a member of the whole christian church , and in communion with it , but he is under the immediate instruction and government of his own bishop and presbyters , and is bound to personal communion with them ; and this constitutes a particular church , in which all acts of worship and all acts of discipline and government are under the direction and conduct of a particular bishop . ] a. omitting that he seemeth to make the parochial churches no churches , but parts of one , here he saith all that he seemed to write against , and that those that he reproacheth hold , allowing the difference of the extent of churches . and is it edifying to read such a discourse , that saith and unsaith by self-contradiction ? and he adjoyns 28. p. how by agreement patriarchal and national churches are made ! and is not agreement a humane contract ? chap. ii. of his first case . § . 1. page 31. his first case , whether communion with some church or other be a necessary duty incumbent on christians : ] and he thinks the resolution of this is as plain , as whether it be necessary for every man to be a christian : for every christian is baptized into the communion of the church . a. in this i know no christian adversary to him : but it being the vniversal church that he giveth his proof of necessary communion with , it 's odde to say , we must have communion with some church or other : as if there were more than one universal church . 2. but we grant more , that all that can well , should be also members of some single church . § . 2. p. 32. he saith [ external and , actual communion is an essential duty of a church-member ( meaning a christian . ) ] a. 1. and yet before he denyed that communion lay essentially in this exercise , but only in vnion ; yea and nay is his custom . 2. some few christians ( as those that live where such communion cannot be had without sin , &c. ) are not bound to it ; therefore it is not true that it is essential to universal church-membership . and i think sickness endeth not the essentials , that disableth men . 3. note reader , that by this mans doctrine we are all unchristened and damned if we do not gather into disallowed churches , if we be unjustly cast out of the allowed ones : for all must be church members that will be christians , and an unjust excommunication cannot disoblige us from christianity , nor bind us to consent to be damned . now read the 5th 6th 7th 8th , &c. canons of the church of england , which ipso facto excommunicate all that affirm any thing in their liturgy , articles , ceremonies or government sinful , and answer spala●●●●ensis arguments against excommunicating ipso facto , and prove all this just , and you may prove what you will just . but you see where he layeth the controversie : if any be excommunicated without sufficient cause , or by lay civilians to whom god never gave that power , or by such bishops or pastors as have no just authority for want of a true call or consent ; or if any unlawful thing be made necessary to communion , all such persons must by his own confessions hold church-communion whether these imposers will or not ; for all christians are bound to be of some church . § . 3. p. 33 , 34. he saith that [ none but publick prayers are the prayers of the church properly , and acts of communion , that is , such as are offered by the hands of men authorized and set apart for that purpose , &c. ] ans . who would have thought that we are more for the liturgy than he ? i undertake to prove , that all the responsal prayers , and all the litany prayers , in which the minister names but the matter to them , and the people make it a prayer by speaking the petitioning parts , are all the publick prayers of the church , and so are all the petitioning psalms spoke or sung by the people , and not only that which is offered by the priest : i do not think that he believeth what he carelesly saith here , himself . but the independents are stiffer for his first thesis ( of the necessity of church-communion ) than he is , his unfit words i pass by . chap. iii. of his second case . § . 1. the next question of occasional communion as distinct from fixed , he turns out of doors , as if there could be no such thing , and it 's very true as to the church universal ; but as to visible , actual communion with this or that particular church , it is not true . 1. a traveller of another country , who on his journey communicateth with every church where he passeth , is not a fixed member of that church : for , 1. the pastor or bishop hath not that peculiar charge of him as of fixed members . 2. he is not bound where he passeth to take such notice of the lives of communicants or pastors , and to admonish the offenders , and tell the church , as fixed members are . 3. he hath not the right in chooseing pastors or deacons as the fixed members have . 4. an itinerant bishop in transitu is not their fixed bishop ; ergo an iterant lay-man is not a fixed member . the same i may say of one that is a fixed member of another church in the same city , and cometh to that only to signifie universal communion , or neighbourly ; which , though he deny to be lawful , i shall further prove anon . and the same i may say of those that dwell where there is no fixed single church at all , for want of a pastor , but they congregate only when some strange minister passeth through the town . chap. iv. his third case . § . 1. page 48 , 49. he resolveth his third case : [ whether it be lawful to communicate with two distinct and separate churches ] negatively , and saith , [ it is contrary to all the principles of church communion , as any thing can possibly be ; it is to be contrary to our selves , it is communicating with schism : that the presbyterian and independent churches have made an actual separation from the church of england he hath evidently proved ; — and they are schismaticks , and to communicate with them is to partake in their schism ; and if schism be a great sin , and that which will damn us as soon as adultery and murther , then , it must needs be a dangerous thing to communicate with schismaticks . and p. 42. there cannot be two distinct churches in one place , one for occasional , and another for constant communion , without schism . ] ans . to save those that are willing from the poyson of these schismatical doctrines , lapt up in confusion by men that abhor distinction , or understand not what they say ; i will first lay down that truth that he fights against , with convincing evidence , and then shew you the mischief of his false doctrine and application . § . 2. the confusion of these words [ church , communion , separation and schism ] which every one signifie divers things , is the chief means to blind ▪ and deceive his reader ; whether it do so by himself i know not . i. the word church signifieth sometime the universal church ; sometime a single organized church as part of it , and sometime humane combinations of such single churches ; and that into diocesan , classical , provincial , patriarchal , national , and papal . ii. the specification and nomination of churches is from the formal cause , and the proper government is that form : and the individuation is from matter and form , but principally from the form . iii. the union of pastor and flock in relation makes that which is a form aptitudinal ( as the soul to the body ) to be the form in act ( as the union of soul and body ) and gods command and consent with the consent of the necessary relate and correlate cause that union . iv. union is in order to communion , which is primary by the exercise of the formal powers on the matter , and secondary by the action of all the parts according to their several capacities and offices . v. the union of the church is of divers degrees . 1. the formal union of the head and body , which maketh it essentially the [ christian church . ] 2. the vnion of the parts among themselves as christian , which maketh them a body capable of union with the head. 3. the union of the parts as unequal organized , the official with the rest , which maketh it an organized body , fit for its special use and welfare . 4. union in integrity of parts , which maketh it an intire body . 5. union in due temperament and qualities , which maketh it a healthful body . 6. unity in common accidents , which make it a comely beautiful body joined with the rest . but , 7. union in mutable accidents is unnecessary and impossible . vi. these several degrees of union are found in bodies natural and politick . 1. the union of soul and body makes a man , and an embryo before it be organized . 2. the union of the body maketh it capable of the souls further operation . 3. the union of the organical , chief parts , ( as heart , lungs , &c. ) to the rest make it a true humane body compleated to the nutriment and action of life . 4. that it have hands and fingers , feet and toes , and all integral parts , makes it an intire body . 5. the due site , temperament and qualities of each part make it a sound body . 6. comely colour , hair , action , going , speech , &c. make it a comely body . 7. to have all parts of equal quantity and office , would make it uncomely : and to have the same hair , colour , &c. is unnecessary at all . 1. the union of king and subjects as such makes a kingdom . 2. that the people be agreed ; for one conjunct interest and government maketh them a community capable of politie or government . 3. that there be judges , maiors and justices , and subordinate cities of societies , maketh it an organized body , in which kingly government may be exercised to its end , the common good . 4. that no profitable part be wanting , ( judge , justice , sheriff , &c. ) maketh it an entire kingdom . 5. that all know their place , and be duly qualified with wisdom , love , justice , conscience , obedience to god first , to the sovereign power next , to officers next , &c. maketh it a found and safe kingdom . 6. that it be well situate , fertile , rich , eminent in learning , skill , &c. maketh it an adorned beautiful kingdom . 7. that all be equal in power and wealth is destructive ; and that all be of one age , complexion , calling , temper , degree of knowledge , &c. is impossible : and that all have the same language , cloathing , utensils , &c. is needless at least . vii . jesus christ is the only universal soveraign of the church , both of vital influence and government ; nor hath he set up any under him , either monarchical , aristocratical , democratical , or mixt , pope , council , on diffused clergy , that hath the power of legislation and judgment as governing the whole chorch ; but only officers that per partes govern it among them , each in his province , as justices do the kingdom , and kings and states the world ; nor is any capable of more . viii . to set up any universal legislators and judge , ( pope or council ) is to set up an usurper of christs prerogative , called by many a vice-christ or an antichrist ; and as bad as making one man or senate the soveraign of all the earth ; and to attempt the setting up of such or any forreign jurisdiction in this land , is to endeavour to perjure the whole kingdom that is sworn against it in the oath of supremacy , and sworn never to endeavour any alteration of government in church or state in the corporation oath , the vestry oath , the militia oath , the oxford oath , with the uniformity covenants : and if any should endeavour to introduce such a forreign jurisdiction who themselves have had a hand in driving all the kingdom to all these oaths against if , i doubt whether all the powers of hell can devise a much greater crime against clergy , cities , and all the land. good reason therefore had doctor isaac barrow to write against it as he hath done , and to confute mr. thorndike , and all such as of late go that pernicious way , by the pretence of church union and communion . as if one universal soveraign and legislator and judge , were not enough to unite christs kingdom , or man could mend his universal laws , and could not stay for his final judgment ; and churches and kingdomes might nor till then be ruled without one humane universal soveraign by necessary and voluntary agreement among themselves . xi . to be a true believer or christian , ( or the insant seed of such ) devoted to god the father , son , and holy ghost , according to the sense of the baptismal covenant , uniteth each member first to christ himself directly , and consequently to his body or church ; and this coram deo , as soon as it is done by heart consent ; and coram ecclesia , regularly , as soon as he is invested by baptism ; which baptism , when it may be had so , is regularly to be administred by none but an authorized minister or deacon ; but if through necessity or mistake it be done by a lay-man , the ancient christians took it not for a nullity , much less if the baptizer was taken for a minister by mistake , being in his place ; and if no baptism can be had , open covenanting is vallid . x. the papists ( and their truckling agents here ) have here hampered themselves in a fatal contradiction : to make themselves masters of the world , they would perswade us , that sacraments only regenerate and sanctifie , and that god saveth none ( by any known way and grant ) but by his covenant sealed by the sacraments ; and that he authorizeth none to administer this covenant but prelates and their priests , and none can validly have it from other hands : and so if you will but abate them the proof of many things that stand in the way , heaven and hell , salvation and damnation are at the will and mercy of such prelates and priests . but unhappily they cannot retrieve their old opinion , but maintain that lay-men and women may baptize in necessity validly , and that baptism puts one into a state of salvation . xi . as he that swears and keeps his allegiance to the king is a subject and member of the kingdom , though he be no member of any corporation ; so , though he disown a thousand fellow subjects ; yea , though he deny the authority of constable , justice , judge ; so he that is devoted to christ truly in the baptismal covenant , is a christian , and a member of the universal church , though he were of no particular church , or did disown a thousand members , or any particular officer of the church . xii . all faults or crimes are not treason : a man that breaketh any law , is in that measure culpable or punishable : but every breach of law , or wrong to fellow subjects or justices , as it is not treason , so it doth not prove a man no subject ; though some may be so great as to deserve death and make him intolerable : and so it is in the case of our subjection in the church to christ . xiii . to own christs instituted species of church officers is needful to the just order , safety and edification of the church ( as to own the courts of judicature , justices , &c. in the kingdom ) but to own this or that numerical officer as truly commissioned , is needful only to the right administration of his own province . xiv . as christ did his own work of universal legislation by himself and his spirit eminently in the apostles and evangelists , who have recorded all in scripture , so he settled churches to continue to the end associated for personal communion in his holy doctrine , worship , order and conversation with authorized ministers , subordinate to his administration in his prophetical , priestly , kingly and friendly relations . and thô these may not always or often meet in the same place , their neighbourhood maketh them capable of personal presential communion , as men that may know and admonish each other and meet by turns , and in presence manage their concerns ; which differenceth single churches of the lowest order from associated churches of men , that have communion only by others at distance . xv. as logicians say of other relations , the matter must be capable of the end , or it is not capable of the name and form ; so is it here : e. g. it is no ship that is made of meer sponge or paper , or that is no bigger than a spoon ; it is no spoon that is as big as a ship : one house is not a village , nor one village a city , nor a city a meer house . so twenty or an hundred or a thousand parishes associate , cannot be a single church of the first or lowest order , being not capable of mutual knowledge , converse or personal present communion : nor are two or three lay-men capable to be such a church , for want of due matter . but supposing them capable , thô a full and rich church have advantage for honour and strength , yet a small ▪ and poor one is ejusdem ordinis as truely a church ; and so is their pastor , as hierom saith of rome and eugubium ; so alexandria and mijuma , &c. gregory neocaesar was equally bishop of nineteen at first , as after of all save nineteen in the city . xvi . if the apostles have successours in their care and superiority over many churches , it will prove that there should yet be men of eminent worth to take care of many churches , and to instruct and admonish the younger ministers : but it will neither prove 1. that they succeed the apostles in the extraordinary parts of their office. 2. nor that they have any forcing power by the sword. 3. nor that one church hath power over others by divine right ; for the apostles fixed not their power to any particular churches , but were general visitors or overseers of many : yet if the same man who is fixed in a particular church , have also the visiting admonishing oversight of many as far as was an ordinary part of the apostles office , and be called an archbishop , i know no reason to be against him . xvii . there be essential and integral acts of the sacred ministry instituted by christ : these none may take the power of from any ministers , nor alter the species or integrity of the office , by setting up any such superious as shall deprive them of that which christ hath instituted , or arrogating the like uncalled . but as in worship , so in order and church government , there are undetermined accidents : as to choose the time and place of synods , to preside and moderate and such like : and these the churches by agreement , or the magistrate may assign to some above the rest : and if the magistrate affix baronies , honours , revenues , or his own due civil forcing power , and make the same men magistrates and ministers , whether we think it prudent and well done or not , we must honour and obey them . xviii . some call these humane accidental orders , forms of church government , and affirm ( as bishop reignolds did , and dr. stillingfleet in his irenicon and many excellent men by him cited ) that no form of church government is of divine command . which is true of all this second sort of government which is but accidental aud humane ; but not at all of the first sort which is divine and essential to christ himself first , and to pastors as such by his appointment ; so that the essential government of the universal church , by christ , and of each particular church by pastors specified by him ( if not of supervisors of many as succeeding apostles and evangelists in their ordinary work ) are of unalterable divine right . but the humane forms are alterable : such i account 1. the presidency and moderatorship and accidental government of one bishop in a single church over the other presbyters , deacons , &c. 2. the accidental government of a diocesan as an archbishop over these lowest bishops and churches . 3. and the superiority of metropolitans and patriarchs over them , so it be but in such accidentals and within the same empire , not imposing a forreign jurisdiction . these tota specie differ from the divine offices . xix . all these single church being parts of the universal are less noble than the whole , and are to do all that they do as members in union with the whole , and to do all as acts of communion with them . xx. the general precepts of doing all to edification , concord , peace , order , &c. oblige all the churches to hold such correspondencies as are needful to these ends : and synods are one special means , which should be used as far and oft as the ends require : and if national metropolitans and patriarchs order such synods , i am not one that will disobey them . but if on these pretences any would make synods more necessary than they are , and use them as governours , by legislation and judgement over the particular bishops by the use of the church keyes , and will affixe to them or metropolitans , besides an agreeing power and the said government in accidentals , a proper church government by making and unmaking ministers or christians , excommunicating and absolving as rulers by the said keyes , it may be a duty to disown such usurpations . as the king would disown an assembly of princes any where met that would claim a proper government of him and his kingdom ; thô it were much to be wisht that all christian princes would hold such assemblies for the concord and peace of christendom . xxi . the essentials of faith , hope and loving practice , essentiate the church objectively : and these are all summarily contained in the baptismal covenant , explained in the creed , lords prayer and decalouge ; and all with much more , even integrals and needful accidentals in the sacred scriptures , which taking in the law of nature , are gods universal law. xxii . there is no church on earth so sound and orthodox as to want no integral part of christian religion : proved : there is no man on earth , much less any multitude , so sound as to want no integral part : but all churches consist only of men ; and therefore if all the men be so far defective , all the churches are so . it is not their objective religion generally and implicitely received that i mean , but their subjective religion , and their explicite reception of the objective . the scripture is our perfect objective religion in it self , and as an object proposed , and in general and implicitely we all receive it . but as a man may say , i believe all that 's in the scripture , and yet be ignorant of the very essentials in it ; so a man may explicitely know and believe all the essentials and more , and yet be ignorant of many integrals . all things in scripture proposed to our faith , hope and practice , are the integrals of our religion : but no christian understandeth all these proposals or words of scripture : therefore no christian explicitely believeth them all , or practiceth all . to hold the contrary , is to hold that some church is perfect in understanding , faith , hope and practice , without ignorance , errour or sin : that is , not to know what a man or a christian on earth is . xxiii . much less do all churches agree in unnecessary indifferent accidents , nor ever did , nor ever will or can do . xxiv . the measuring out churches by limits of ground , parochial or diocesan , is a meer humane ordering of a mutable accident , and no divine determination : and if all were taken for church members-because they dwell in those precincts , it were wicked : but if it be but all in those precincts that are qualified consenters , it is usually a convenient measure : but such as in many cases must be broken . xxv . if a church with faithful pastors be well setled in a place first where there are not more than should make up that one church , it is not meet for any there to gather a distinct church ( thô of the same faith ) without such weighty reason as will prove it necessary , or like to do more good than hurt : 1. because love inclineth to the greatest union ; 2. because a great church is more strong and honourable than a small , if the number be not so great as to hinder the ends. 3. and the ancient churches kept this union . xxvi . if magistrates make such laws about church accidents as tend to further the churches welfare , or are so pretended , and not against it , we must obey them . but if they wiil either invade christs autherity or cross it , by making laws against his , or such as are proper to his prerogative to make , or invade the pastors office , and the churches proper right given by christ , or determine accidents to the destruction of the substance ( the church , doctrine , worship or ends ) these bind the consciences of none to obedience ; but christ must be obeyed , and we must patiently suffer . xxvii . self-interest , self-government and family-government are all antecedent to publick government , which ruleth them for the common good , but hath no authority to destroy them : no king or prelate can bind a man to do that which would damn his soul , nor to omit that which is needful to his salvation : all power is for edification : they are gods ministers for god. xxviii . as it belongs to self-government to choose our own dyet , and cloaths , and wives , and physicians , ( thô we may be restrained from doing publick hurt on such pretences ; ) and it belong to family government to educate our own children , and choose their tutors , callings , wives , &c. so it more nearly belongs to self-government to choose the most safe and profitable means of our own salvation , which no man may forbid us ; and to avoid that which is pernicious or hurtful ; and to family-government to do the like for our children . xxix . it is false doctrine of those late writers who tell us , that only sacraments sanctifie or give right to salvation : the whole tenor of the gospel tells us that men are brought to faith and repentance , and to be christians , and godly men , and by faith to be justified , by the preaching of the gospel : and that gods word is his appointed means of salvation , which his ministers must preach skilfully , instantly , in season and out of season , to that end : and if the gospel be hid , it is hid to them that are lost . xxx . the gospel saveth not like a charm , by the bare sound or saying of the words ; nor the sacrament like an amulet ; but as a moral means ( specially blest by him that instituted it ) to work on man as man , by informing his mind , perswading his will and exciting his affections , as men are wrought on in other cases ; ( which methinks those called arminians should least deny , who are said to lay more of the spirits operation on moral suasion than their adversaries ; yea and those that account it fanaticism to expect any other gift of prayer from the spirit but what is given morally by use . ) and the contrary doctrine feigneth god to work even constantly by miracle : and as the papists make every mass-priest a miracle worker in transubstantiation , so do they that make the bare saying over the words and doing the outward acts in the sacrament , to save us ex opere operato , and the pastoral teaching and oversight of an ignorant drunken lad or reader to be ( near ) as great a help to salvation , as the ministry of a wise skilful , holy and exemplary pastor , and the clear affectionate preaching of gods word : and that tell us ( as mr. dodwell ) how sufficient a man is to administer the sacramental covenant that understands what a covenant is in matters of common conversation . xxxi . if a wise : and skilful and conscionable ministry be as needless to edification and salvation as some men pretend , it is as needless that they should study to be such , and vain to glory that they are such , and that the church of england hath such a ministry , and vain to expect that men should pay them any more respect than i owed my master that never preacht but once , and that drunken ; ( and divers very like him . ) or that they should use this as an argument to draw men to hear them . xxxii . if the king or law should settle a physician of his ( or a patrons ) choice in every parish , it were well done if it be but to have help at hand for volunteers : bui : if he command all to use them and to use no other before them or against them , where unskilful or untrusty men are placed , no man is bound to obey this command : no mens law can dissolve the law of nature , nor disoblige a man from a due care of his life , nor bind him to cast it away upon obedience to ignorant or bad and treacherous men. and a mans soul is more precious than his health or life ; and he is bound to greater care of it ; and is no more to trust it on the will of his superiours how vast is the difference between an ignorant rash physician or pastor , and one that is wise , experienced and trusty ? they that scorn men for going for greater edification from one to another , do not so if a man prefer a skilful physician to one that kills more than he cures ; or a skilful and careful tutor for his son , yea or a farrier for his horse . xxxiii . if one preacher be not for edification to be greatly preferred before another , then one book is not : and so it 's no matter what book they read or value ; and what a student will this make ? and what a trade for the booksellers ? and why then should their own books be so valued ? and why then do they silence hundreds or thousands and forbid them to preach on pain of ruine , ( thô no false doctrine be proved against them ) if they think not that the difference is very great . xxxiv . when councils hereticated and condemned thousands or hundreds of priests and bishops , whom christian emperours and princes owned as orthodox , they did not then think every patron , prince or prelate a competent judge with what pastor men should trust the conduct of their souls : nor did they think so that forbad men hearing fornicators : nor cyprian that required the people to forsake basilides and martial ( & peccatorem praepositum . ) xxxv . so full was the proof given in the book called , the first plea for peace , that the church from the beginning denyed princes and magistrates to be entrusted with the choice of bishops , or pastors to whom the churches were bound to trust the conduct of their souls , that he who denyeth it , is not worthy to be , therein disputed with . and yet we doubt not but they may force infidel subjects and catechumens to hear sound and setled preachers and catechists ; and may dispose of the tythes , temples and many other accidents of the church ; and may drive on pastors and people to their duty . xxxvi . it is false doctrine that two distinct churches may not be in the same precincts or city ; this being a meer accident which abundance of cases make unnecessary and unlawful : which i shall prove . that which is no where commanded by god , is no duty : but that there shall be but one church ( or bishop ) in the same precincts , is not commanded of god , ergo , &c. ( divine of gods making . ) they own the major in the case of indifferent thing . if they deny the minor let the affirmers prove any such command . we grant a command of love and concord , and a prohibition of all that is against them . but in many instances , to have several churches in the same precincts , is not against them . if they fly to the canons of foreign councils , the reason of them we shall weigh and duely regard ; but they were national , and had their legislative power only from their own princes and their counselling power only from christ : and we disown all foreign jurisdiction . xxxvii . in all these cases following ( and more ) two churches may be in the same precincts ( yea and a city . ) 1. in case that several bishops are called justly to dwell in the same city , or diocess , and many of their flock be with them , e. g. many bishops of england dwell long , yea mostly in london or in london diocess : e. g. the bishop of eli dwells in the parish of st. andrews holbourn : qu. whether there he be a subject to dr. stillingfleet as his pastor , and bound to obey him ? or whether many out of his diocess ( thousands ) may not as lawfully dwell half the year in london as he ? and whether when he preacheth to them , he do it not as their bishop ( in london diocess . ) and so of many other bishops that here reside . xxxviii . 2. either our parish churches are true churches , or not . if not , the separatists are so far in the right ; and separate not from true churches eo nomine because they separate from them . if yea , then many churches are in the same city and diocess . ( of their agreement and dependance on the fame bishop i shall speak anon . ) xxxix . 3. in case that in one city , there be resident stranges , that are sent on embassies , or live for merchandize , or flee from miseries , and are the subject of other princes , whose laws and customs they are under , e. g. at frankford , hamburgh , middleburgh , dantzick , constantinople , there have been english distinct lawful churches : and in london there are dutch and french churches : and if the king allowed a swedish church , a danish church , a saxon church , &c. with their several bishops , who is so weak as to need proof that this is lawful , and they true churches ? xl. 4. in case men of different language are not capable of mutual converse by personal communion or help : as dutch , french , italian , greeks , germans , &c. grotius and dr. hammond ( oft in dissert . and annot. ) do maintain that peter at rome had a church of jews , and paul a church of gentiles : and that the like distribution of churches of jews and gentiles , there was at antioch , alexandria and other places : and by this they salve the contradictions in church history about the succession of linus , cletus and clemens : and the apostles setled not a sinful church way . xli . 5. yea grotius maintaineth that the apostles setled the churches at first not like the jewish priesthood , but in the order of their synagogues ; ( de imper. sum . patest . and in annot. ) and that as there were divers synagogues in a great city with their archisynagogus and elders , so there were divers churches in a city with bishops and presbyters . xlii . 6. when there are a greater number of persons in one city or precinct than can have any just personal knowledge and communion , and more than any one bishop with his presbytery can perform the needful pastoral oversight to , it is lawful and a duty , to gather another church in that city or precinct : but this is truly the case of many great cities , though worldly wisdom have at rome , and other places oft denyed notorious evidence and experience . he that will gather up all the duties that dr. hammond saith were charged on the bishops ( in his annotations on all the texts that name elders and bishops ) if he can believe that any bishop can perform the tenth part of them to all in the diocess of london , york , lincoln , norwich , &c. i will not dispute against him if he maintain a bishops ubiquity , or that at once he can be in twenty places . but if they say , that what then was commanded them to do personally , they may do by others , i say , that if they may change the work , they may change the power , that specifieth the office ; and so it is not the same office in specie instituted in scripture : and then lay-men may have power to preach and administer sacraments , and do the office of priests , and yet be no priest ( as civilians do of bishops ) which is a contradiction . certainly if there be more scholars in the city than one master can teach and rule , it is no schism to set up more schools and schoolmasters , but a duty . and if the lord mayor on pretence of city government should put down but as great a part of family government , as those diocesans do of parochial church government , who allow none under them to be truly episcopi gregis , and have the power of their church keyes , i think that it were no schism to restore families so that the city might have more than one ( entirely . ) xliii . 7. if the soveraign power upon politick or religious reasons should determine , that e. g. dr. a , and dr. b , and dr. c. shall all be bishops in london , to such volunteers of clergy and laity as shall choose each of them to be their bishop , and this without altering their dwellings , no man can prove it sinful ; and of his reasons the king is judge . xliv . 8. if the bishop or clergy of a city , diocess or nation , do agree by law or canon to admit none to the ministry or communion that will not commit a known sin deliberately as the condition of his communion , it is a duty to congregate under other pastors in those precincts . this is confest : if they should not only hold any errour , or practise sin , but require men to subscribe and approve it , and say it is no sin , no man ought to do this ; nor yet to live like an atheist : , and forsake all worship because men forbid him , if it were but to subscribe one untruth : but alas , this is no rare case : in one emperours reign all were anathematized that subscribed not to the council of chalcedon , and quickly after all that did , or that would not renounce it : the same division and changes were made by the councils against and for the monothelites , de tribus capitulis , images , &c. and when all men living have many errours , and the church of england disclaimeth her infallibility , and yet will receive no minister that will not subscribe that there is nothing in her books contrary to the word of god , the case is hard . but when all the things mentioned in the plea for peace are proved lawful , we shall be more yielding in this case . xlv . 9. if true and sound christians mistakingly think one or many things to be heinous sins , ( as perjury , lying , renouncing obedience to god , and repentance , &c. ) which are things indifferent , but of so great difficulty that most learned and godly and willing men cannot discern the lawfulness and agree , and yet are not necessary nor just conditions of ministry or communion , and so it is the imposer that entangleth them by difficulty in their disseut , it is not lawful for these men therefore to forbear all church worship , but must use it as they can . xlvi . 10. if any church unjustly excommnnicate such men ; or others , they must not forbear all church order and worship because men so excommunicate them . no man must sin to escape excommunication ; and every man in the world is a sinner : , and therefore all the world must be excommunicated , if all sinners must be so . as i before said , the times oft were when almost all the bishops in the empire were excommunicated by one another : councils and popes have oft excommunicated some for trifles and some for truth and duty . and such must not therefore renounce all church worship and communion . the church of england do by their standing law ipso facto excommunicate all ( as aforesaid ) that affirm any thing to be repugnant to gods word or sinful , in their whole church government , articles , liturgy and ceremonies , and so to stand till they publickly revoke this as a wicked errour . now many lords and commoners in parliaments , have spoken against some of these particulars ; and some out of parliament : many ministers have done the like when the king commissioned them to treat for alterations ; and many when the accusations or demands of others have called them to give a reason of their actions . some have maintained that it is repugnant to gods word that lay civilians should have the decretive power of the keyes , and that the parish minister must cast out of communnion all that the lay doctors or chancellors excommunicate , and all that dare not receive kneeling , and that they should deny christendom to all that scruple the englisn sort of god-fathers covenants , and the transient symbolical image of the cross , with abundance such things : now all these are ipso facto excommunicate . and thô they be not bound to avoid the church till this be applicatorily declared , yet actually excommunicate they are , and that by a higher authority than the bishops ; and they know the churches decree ; and the priests are sworn to canonical obedience ; and he that will not tempt them to be forsworn , nor come into a church that hath excommunicated him , seems therein excuseable : but must he therefore renounce the church of god ? xlvii . 11. if the people are so set against one bishop for another , as that half being for one and half for the other , and both orthodox , they cannot be perswaded to unite in one . a council at rome determined in the case of paulinus and flavian at antioch , that both of them should hold their distinct churches , and so live in love and peace . and though one or both parties in this were mistaken sinners , so are all morral men , who yet must not live like atheists . xlviii . 12. an undetermined accident must be so determined as most serveth to do the greatest good and avoid the greatest evil : but whether divers churches shall promiscuously live in the same city or diocess or parisn , is an accident not determined by god , and either way may be for the greatest good , as circumstances vary . e.g. when in a church half cannot consent to condemn the words of theodoret , theodore mopsuest , and ibas , and half will condemn them with the council ; if these can serve god quietly in love and peace in different congregations , but cannot endure one another in the same , it is most for the churches peace that they be permitted to joyn with those of their own mind . when one pope declared that it 's sound doctrine to say [ one of the trinity was crucified , ] when another had declared that it is not sound doctrine , they that held with one pope , and they that held with the other might both be true churches in different assemblies : when justinian raised the bloody controversie between the corrupticolae and the phantasiastae , wise men thought both sides were true churches : yea and so did many wise men think of the orthodox and nestorians and many eutychians . xlix . 13. it 's a common case under turks and heathens , that they give liberty of conscience for christians of all parties : now suppose that in aleppo , in constantinople or elsewhere , there be ( partly for countrey sake and partly for language , but most for different judgments ) one church of armenians , one of greeks , one of english-men , &c. what law of god makes only one of these to be a true church , and which is it ? l. 14. suppose that the setled church e. g. in holland , sweden , saxony , is for presbytery , or for an episcopacy that arose from presbyters ordination , or that had none or a short liturgy , and the prince would tolerate english men ( as frankford did ) to set up a church of the english form and liturgy , i think few prelatists would deny it to be lawful . li. i omit other instances , and come to the matter of separation , which word serveth this man and such other in so general and undistinguished a sence , as would make one think he were of mr. dodwell's mind , that words in dispute have but one signification , which all are bound to know that use them . even a bell by the same sound sometime signifieth a call to church , and sometime a funeral , and sometime joy ; but [ separate , separate ] is rung over and over with these men , as if it signified but one thing . 1. he that heareth half the sermon and service , and goeth out of church , doth separate at that time from the rest . when a protestant heretick was doing penitence with his faggot at st. maries in oxford , and the fryer was preaching , a mistaken voice in the street made them think the hereticks had set the church on fire , and they separated from the preacher , one fryer stuck by the belly that was going out at the window ; the door being wedged with the crowd , a boy that saw it open above their heads , got up on their shoulders , and went on 'till he slipt into a monks cowl , and there lay still 'till the monk was got out , and felt something on his back , and thinking it was an heretical devil , began to conjure him in the name of father , son and holy ghost , to tell him what he was , and the boy cryed , o good master i am the bakers boy , &c. quaere , whether this was schismaticks separation . at walsall in stafford-shire , mr. lapthorne ( known to me in his iusty age ) who had been a non-conformist , but thought it an honour to be converted by a king , and gloried that king james in conference changed him ; but being as rustick a thunderer as father latimer and more , he was wont to let fly without much fear ; one mr. martin in the parish accounted the greatest enemy to puritans , when he heard what he liked not , would goe out of church ; one day ( in a path way where mr. lane had rode a little before ) pelting crabs with a pole , the ground opened and swallowed him and his pole , that they could never be found ( being a cole-mine long on fire ; ) ever after that , when any one would goe out of church at a blustering passage , mr. lapthorne would call to him , remember martin ; quere , whether all these were separating schismaticks ? but this is too far off : in dunstans west , where dr. sherlock , preacheth , when i was licensed : twenty , years ago , at christmas , as i was preaching , some lime or stone fell down in the steeple with the crowd , the church being old and under suspicion , they all thought it was falling , and most ran out in tumult , and some cast themselves headlong from the gallery for hast ; when they were quieted and came in again , the boyes in the chancel broke a wainscot skreen with climbing on it , and the noise made them run out again ; one old woman going out , cryed , it 's just with god because i took not the first warning , lord forgive me , and i 'le never come again : quere , whether these , or at least this resolving woman was a schismatick , and separated from the catholick church ? if not , there is some separation that is not so bad as murder ; and methinks the doctor should forgive it for the success ; for the parish hereupon resolved to pull down the church and build it new , a far better fabrick where the dr. now preacheth ; and it drove me away that i preacht there no more ; whether this new church built where the old one had possession before , be not a schismatical separatist , i leave to him . lii . 2. local separation without mental can make no culpable schism ; for nil nisi voluntarium est morale ; if a man be imprisoned or be sick and cannot come to the church , it is innocent separation ; i have been at no church this half year , much against my will , o that god would heal me of this separation ! liii . 3. if it must be mental separation that must be culpable , then it is diversified according to the mental degree and kind ; and no man separateth from the universal church who separateth not from somewhat essential to it ; to separate from its integrals or accidents may be culpable , but it 's no separation from the church , no more than every breach of the law is a separation from the kingdom . liv. 4. some separate as to place , locally and not mentally , some mentally and not locally , and some both : he that daily observeth the outward communion of the church , and yet taketh it for no church , or denyeth its faith , hope or essential duty , separateth indeed . all those men that live unbelievingly , atheistically , wickedly , that in their converse prate against the scripture and immortality of the soul , and that hate and persecute serious godliness , are damnably separated from christ , and therefore from , the catholick church , and are so to be esteemed so far as this is known , thô when , it is unknown , the church can take no notice of it . lv. 5. it being only humane laws and circumstantial conveniences that make it unmeet to have divers churches bishops living promiscuously in the same parishes , cities , dioceses or nations ; where laws and circumstances allow it , it is no unlawful seperation . lvi . 6. he that liveth in forreign lands ( christian , mahometan or heathen ) where various churches live promiscuously ( greeks , armenians , protestants , papists , &c. ) is no schismatick , if he choose which he thinks best , and be absent locally from the rest , condemning them no further than they deserve . lvii . 7. he that removeth into another diocess or parish for his worldly interest , seperateth without fault from the church he was in . lviii . 8. it is a lawful separation to remove ones dwelling , because the minister is ignorant , unskilful , or otherwise bad , and this for the better edification of his soul , and the use and help of a more able faithful minister , even law and custome and reason do allow it . lix . 9. thô the canon 57. and 28. forbid ministers oft to give the sacrament to strangers that come out of other parishes , even where no preaching is , yet those many sober people that use this in london , are not taken to be schismaticks , as bad as murders : many that are esteemed the most sober religious conformists do ordinarily goe from their own parish churches , some ( in martins and st. giles's parish , &c. ) for want of room , and some for more edification , to dr. tillotson , dr. stillingfleet , dr. burnet , dr. fowler , mr. gifford , mr. durham , mr. hornech and such others , and communicate with them ; and thô these are called by the late catholicks by the name of dangerous trimmers , i think even dr. sherlock will think it more pardonable than murder , if they come to him . lx. 10. if the king and law should restore the antient order that every city , that is , every great incorporate town in england should have a bishop , ( yea or every great parish ) and that the diocesans should be their arch-bishops , and our new catholicks should tell the king and parliament that they are hereby unchristened schismaticks , as dangerous as adulterers of murderers , for gathering churches within a church , i would not believe them . lxi . 11. if ( e.g. at frankford , zurick , lubeck , hamburgh , &c. ) a church is settled in the lutheran way , and another in the bochemian way , described by lasitius and commenius , ( which is a conjunction of episcopacy , presbytery and independency ) or a church that had no liturgy , or none but that which the french protestants and dutch have , would it be damning schism , for such as cox and horne at frankford to set up an episcopal church in the english mode , and with their liturgy , and so far to separate from the rest ? lxii . 12. if it be true that john maior , fordon , and others say that presbytery was the government of the church of scotland before episcopacy was brought in , was the introduction of episcopacy by palladius a damning schism by separating from the former , or a reformation ; is just reformation schism ? lxiii . 13. when the church first set up patriarchs , metropolitans , general councils , monasteries , parish churches distinct from cathedrals , organs , new liturgies , and multitudes of ceremonies , this was a departing or separating from the contrary church way which was there before , was it therefore schism ? lxiv . 14. when socrates tells us of some countreys that had bishops in the countrey villages ( like our parishes ) was it a damning schism to separate from this custome , by decreeing that even small cities should have no bishops , ne vilescat nomen episcopi ? or when the chorepiscopi were put down , where they had been ? lxv . 15. if a man separate not from any thing essential to the church of england , he separateth not from that church , though he refuse that which is its accidents , or some integral parts : we are charg'd with separating from the church of england , as if it were a matter of fact beyond dispute , and scorn'd for denying it , even by them that will not tell us what they mean by the church of england , or by separation . by the church of england we mean the christian kingdom of england , or all the christians in england , as living in one land , under one christian king who governeth them by the sword , which includeth their concord among themselves in true christianity ; we are christians , we profess agreement in christianity with all christians we are under the same king as they are , and profess subjection , and take ; the same oaths of allegiance and supremacy ; yea , we are not charged with differing in any thing called doctrinal from their thirty nine articles ; but we disown certain late covenants and oaths which are not twenty three years old , and the subscription to one canon about the innocency of all in their liturgy ; now either these new oaths , covenants and canon , liturgy and ceremonies are essential to the church of england , or not ; if yea , then , 1. it 's a poor humane church , made by them that made these oaths , liturgy and ceremonies . 2. and then it 's a new upstart church , and no man can answer the papists where it was before luther , or before henry 8. yea , if its essentials were made by this king and parliament , 1662. then the present church is no older : but if these things be indifferent , or not essential to the church , then to separate only from these , is not to separate from the church . if it be said , that for the sake of these we separate from the church it self , and therefore from its essence ; we abhor the accusation , and challenge them to prove it : if we separate from the church essentially , it is either locally or mentally ; not locally , for we are yet in england , nor is local distance only a sin ; not mentally , for we own it for a true christian kingdom , called a national church , bound to serve christ in love and concord to their power : we deny not the king to be the governour , nor christians to be christians , no nor the particular churches and ministers to be true ( thô culpable ) churches and ministers , nor their sacraments to be true sacraments ; we profess to hold with them one catholick body , one spirit , one god , one chirist , one faith , one baptism ( in the essentials ) and one hope , and are ready to promise to live in concord with them in all other things , as far as will stand with our obedience to god ; so that we separate not from the church of england as such , but from some of its accidents , which we dare not be guilty of . lxvi . 16. the same i say of a parish church ; he that locally removeth , e. g. from a church that hath organs , to one that hath none , separateth from a pair of organs , but not mentally from the church , unless the organs be its essence . lxvii . 17. they that are for the true antient episcopacy , ( e. g. as much as arch-bishop vsher's reduction which we offer'd did contain ) but dislike the lay civilians power of the keyes , and officials , surrogates , arch-deacons government , &c. do not separate from the church as episcopal , but from the humane novelties which they disown . lxviii . 18. if a parishioner fall out with his priest , and they goe to law about tythes , glebes , words , &c. and the suit be long , and the man dare not communicate with him believing that he hateth him , thô the animosity should be culpable , being but personal , his going from-him to another church is not separating from christ ; ( for i hope that even mr. dodwell himself will not say that every priest is christ . ) lxix . 19. ex quovis ligno non fit mercurius , surely there is some qualification essential to the ministry ; if a man want that qualification , it is a duty to separate from him as no minister , e. g. when i came to kederminster , ( after my subjection to six or seven worse ) i found the vicar , one reputed ignorant of the fundamentals , ( he was brought in by sir henry blunt a papist ) who preacht but once a quarter , which most thought he might better have forborn , and his curate mr. turner at mitton preacht once a day , whom i found ignorant of the catechism principles by conference , and he confest he had but one book , musculus common places in english , and he said some of that to the people , and they took it for a sermon ; he lived by unlawful marrying , infamous for drinking and quarrelling ; he that had taken these for no ministers , and separated from them , had not thereby seperated from christ or his church catholick . lxx . 20. if it prove as hard to know who is the true pastor in a competition of pretenders , as it was to know which was the true pope , when there were two or three , ( above twenty times ) or whether , e. g. optandus was true bishop of geneva that knew not letters , or whether duke heriberts son consecrated in infancy was arch-bishop of rhemes , or any other infant consecrated be a bishop , ( officiating per alios , surrogates , chancellours , officials , &c. ) it is not here a separation from christ to separate from either of the pretenders : he that mistaketh not , is not liable to the charge , he that mistakes , doth not erre in an article of faith , but in a difficult point of humane title , and the qualification and right of a single man ; and my opinion is , that if such a title were tryed before our judges or king , and they should mistake and give judgment against him that had right , this were no separating from christ , nor proof that they are infidels . lxxi . 21 if the case of two contending bishops or presbyters come before a general or provincial council , and they mistake and give it to the wrong , and so separate from the right , i do not think that thereby they separate from christ or the church catholick , e. g. the constantinopolitan council first gave the church of constantinople to nazianzene , and after judged him out as having no right ; if by this they separated from christ , they that take them for the catholick church representative , must say that the catholick church separated from christ and it self . when another council wrongfully deposed chrysostome , and separated from him , and cyril alexandr . perswaded the continuance of it , did the universal church separate from it self and christ ? if a general council which should be wisest , be excusable from damning schism , whenever it misjudgeth and separateth from a rightful bishop , sure every lay-man and woman that doth the same , doth not separate from christ . if it prove that a general council deposed nestorius as unjustly as david derodon thought , or dioscorus as unjustly as others thought , or flavian as unjustly as the orthodox think , this proveth them guilty of some schism , but not of separating from the universal church . when menna of constantinople , and the pope excommunicated each other , when a synod in italy renounced vigilius , and all his successors were an hundred years deposed from their primacy , and a patriarch at aquileia set up in his stead for a great part of italy , because vigilius subscribed to a general council , de tribus capitulis , this was schism ( some where ) but not separating from christ . lxxii . 22. if a man in england should think that all the old councils were obligatory , which decree that he shall be taken for no bishop that comes in by the choice ( yea or mediation ) of courtiers , princes or great men , or any that have not the true consent of clergy and people , and thereupon should conclude that bishops , deans , prebends , &c. so chosen and imposed are lay-men and no true bishops and pastors , this were a separating from those persons , but not from christ and the vniversal church , when as mr. thorndike saith , that till the right of electing bishops by the clergy and people be restored , we need look no further for the reason of the contempt of episcopacy here . so if a man think that god never trusted every ignorant wicked man that can but get money and buy an advowson , to choose those pastors to whose conduct all the people are bound to trust their souls , ( and the bishop to admit them for fear of a quare impedit , if they have but a certificate and can speak latine ) this is not damning separation . lxxiii . 23. if a bishop set up a seeming convert , really a papist ( e. g. mr. hutchinson alias berry , or one of them that lately confessed themselves papists , ) the people that find by experience what the man is , are not damned schismaticks for not taking him for their pastor , or for going from him . if godfrey goodman bishop of gloucester was a papist , did he separate from christ that separated from the diocesan church of gloucester , while he was an essential part ? or that did not implicitely trust all the priests that he ordained ? lxxiv . 24. if in a cathedral church one withdraw from their service , because of their difference in singing , ceremonies , &c. from the parish churches , thô it be the bishops church that he separateth from , it is not as a church , nor from any thing essential to it , e. g. miles smyth bishop of gloucester ( the famous hebrician , and chief in our bibles translation ) declared and performed it , that he would never come more to his cathedral , because the dean ( in lauds time ) kept up the altar . qu. whether he separated from himself or his church ? vbi episcopus ibi ecclesia : who were the separatists ? they that followed the bishop , or they that separated from him and kept to the ca●●●●hedral ? the same i say of williams bishop of lincoln that wrote against altars . lxxv . 25. if faithful pastors and people are setled in concord , and the higher powers make a law to depose and eject them without just cause ( as multitudes were in many emperours dayes , and multitudes by the interim in germany in charles the fifths time ; and multitudes in the palatinate by ludovicus , and in too many other countreys ) those that leave the temples and tythes to the magistrate , but cleave to their old pastors in forbidden meetings ( called conventicles ) supposing the pastoral relation not dissolved ( as the joannites clave to chrysostom ) do not thereby separate from the catholick church : had the power been lawful that set up another way , when dr. gunning kept up his meetings at exeter house , it had not been a separation from christ that he then made . lxxvi . 26. if the law command all to take one man for his pastor , and a parent command his child , or a husband his wife to take another and not that , and the child or wife know not which should be obeyed , and whether the choice belong more to the domestick , or the publick government , it is not a separating from christ , which way ever such an one shall go . lxxvii . 27. yea if i should think that self-interest and self-government bind me rather to choose a pastor for my self , than to stand to such a choice by prince , patron or prelate , which i think intolerable , as well as ( against their will ) i may choose a wife , or a physician , or a tutor , or a book , or my daily food , this is not separating from the universal church . lxxviii . 28. if owning the same diocesan make them of one church who differ more than nonconformists and conformists do , then owning the same christ , faith , scripture , &c. maketh them of one catholick church who differ less . but , &c. jesuites , dominicans , jansenists , and all the sects of papists are taken for one church , because they own the pope and councils . in england the diocesan conformists are taken for one church , thô some of them are as much for a foreign jurisdiction , as arch-bishop laud , arch-bishop bromhall , bishop gunnings chaplain , dr. saywell , mr. thorndike , dr. heylin , and many more , have manifested in their words and writings . and some that subscribe the articles of general councils erring in faith and against heathens salvation , and against free will , and for justification by faith only , &c. do shew that they differ in the doctrines of religion , ( unless the sound or syllables be its religion ) while one and another take the words in contrary sences . some are for diocesans being a distinct order from presbyters , some ( as vsher and many such ) deny it : some hold them to be of divine right , and some but of humane ; some think the king must choose them , some rather the clergy and people ; some hold them independent , others rather subject to the arch-bishops and convocation ; some think all that bear office in their church government are lawful , others think lay-civilians government by the keyes unlawful ( and so are ipso facto excommunicate by their own canons ; ) some that promise canonical obedience to their ordinary , take the judges of the ecclesiastical courts for their ordinaries ; and others only the bishops ; some think they are sworn to obey their ordinaries , if they rule according to the canons ( and so to pronounce all excommunicate that the canon excommunicates , if commanded ; ) others think otherwise , that they are judges themselves whether the canons command licita & honesta ; some take the pope to be antichrist , and the church of rome no true church ; others think otherwise . many more ( arminian and other ) such differences there are , and yet all of one church , both catholick , national , diocesan and parochial ( oft : ) much more are those nonconformists that differ from the church in nothing but what the imposers call indifferent . lxxix . 29. if one that prayeth in the litany against false doctrine and schism , and readeth the conformists telling him of the danger of it , should ; verily think that dr. s. printeth and preacheth false doctrine , and such as plainly tendeth to serve satan against christian love and peace , and to the most schismatical dividing and damning of christians , should hereupon separate from him for fear of schism and false doctrine , and go to a safer pastor , i think it were not to separate from christ . lxxx . 30. if a bishop in any diocess in london should openly write or plead for a foreign jurisdiction , and we are told that none are true ministers that depend not obediently on the bishop , he that for fear of the law , or of personal or common perjury , should separate from that bishop and his numerical diocesan church , doth thereby neither separate from the catholick church , nor from the church of england . as if the kings army should have a colonel that declared himself an obliged subject to the king of france and bound to obey him , the regiment may forsake that colonel . yea if the general of the kings army should give up himself in subjection to the enemy or a foreign power , and say , i will take a commission from the turk , and my officers shall only obey me , and the soldiers obey them , were not this an army of traytors or rebels , though none but the general took a commission from the enemy ? so if the bishops should all take commissions from the pope , or declare themselves subjects to a forreign jurisdiction , it were no separating from christ , to separate from them all , in loyalty to christ , and to avoid national perjury and schism . lxxxi . 31. if a man think that he is bound to use all christs instituted means of salvation , and live in a church that wilfully omitteth any one of them , e. g. either infant baptism , or singing psalms , or praying , or preaching , or the lords supper , or all personal care , and discipline to exclude the grosly intolerable , to resolve the doubting , &c. he that in obedience to christ goeth to a church and pastor ( in the same diocess or city ) that omitteth none of these , is no damned schismatick . lxxxii . 32. he that is unjustly cast out of the church , and by its very laws excommunicated ipso facto , is no damned or sinful schismatick for worshipping god in a church that will receive him : nor any one that is denyed communion unless he will sin ; much more if they should prove half as many and great sins as the nonconformists have said they fear ( in the first plea for peace , &c. ) lxxxiii . 33. if a foreigner that doth but half understand our language , withdraw to a church and pastor whose tongue he understands , obeying god and nature is no damning schism . lxxxiv . 34. if one that is erroneously conceited of the obligation of general councils , should think it a sin to kneel at the sacrament on any lords day in the year , or any week day between easter and whitsuntide , because tradition and the twentieth canon of the first council , and that at trull , &c. do forbid then to adore kneeling , this separating on that account to another congregation is not damning . if it be said , that mr. thorndike and others tell us that it is not necessary that we do the same things which the supream catholick power commanded , but that we subject our selves to the same power which may change their own laws . i answer , 1. the asserting of that universal soveraignty is the greatest crime and heresie of all . 2. by this it seems that our religion is very mutable , and very uncertain , and a man hath need to take heed of obeying any old canons , till he know the mind of the present church ; ( and who those be , and how to know it . ) 3. but what if the same man read dr. heylin ( of sab. ) telling him that this custome against adoration-kneeling continued a thousand years , and was never revok't by any true general council , but changed by little and little by mens practice : and what if he question who those changers were , and whether their practice was rebellion at first , and whether they had power to repeal the canons of the greatest councils without a council . sure they that are for such councils universal soveraignty , when they have cast men into these shares , should scarce tell them that they are damnable schismaticks , for joyning with such churches as obey these councils , rather than with those that mine men for not disobeying them . lxxxiv . and now reader if thou art one that thinkest of these things with christian sobriety and impartiality , i appeal to thee whether if i should be of the mind of mr. dodwell , and such self-conceited resolvers , i should not write my own condemnation , and be one of the grossest schismaticks that any history hath mentioned , unless ever there were any man so mad as to hold himself to be all the church : yea , when he no more distinguisheth of separation and schism , but involves almost all christians in his condemnation , and tells us that schism will damn us as soon as adultery and murder , is it not obvious for all men to infer that we are as odious as adulterers and murderers ? and doth he not preach christians into the hatred of each other ? and can any wonder if rulers should think the punishment of murderers is not worse than we deserve ? it is not new-gate only , but tyburn that these healing men do seem to assign us ; it would be too tedious to look over all these again , and shew you how great the number is that these men damn , and how few on earth in any age they excuse from being so far like murderers . lxxxv . 1. it seems to me that he virtually damneth all christians on earth as such schismaticks ; for it is most certain that all men have sin , and culpable imperfection in knowledge , will and practice ; and if any say , that he hath no sin , he is a lyar , saith st. john ; and it is certain that all two persons on earth have many errours , and many differences from one another ; it is certain that the love and duty of christians towards each other is culpably defective in all men : it is certain that no man living is so perfect in knowledge as to know all the indifferent things in the world , which may be imposed , to be indifferent ! and long and sad experience hath told the church , that both gross errours and sins , and things called truths or indifferent , which few can be sure of , may be imposed . what follows from all this , but that all men on earth may easily fall under the imputation of disobedience to prelates , and so be excommunicate , and then they have their choice ( when no man is perfect , and they cannot change their mindes ) 1. whether they will be damned as excommunicate and practical atheists that give over all church worship ; 2. or as damnable schismaticks , for worshipping god in churches when they are excommunicate ; 3. or as persidious lyars , that will make false confessions , professions and promises , to get off an excommunication . when mr. dodwel numbers those with schismaticks that [ suffer themselves to be excommunicate , ] if they have no other means in their power to hinder it , it seems these great enemies to absolute reprobation , do think all christians being unavoidably born to imperfection of knowledg , are as unavoidably born to damnation whenever prelates or priests please thus to precipitate them . lxxxvi . 2. particularly , 1. the first and second canons ipso facto excommunicate all that say [ that any manner of obedience and subjection within his majesties realms and dominions is due to any usurped and foreign power : ] by this all papists and all pretended protestants ( such as dr. barrow confuteth ) who hold any manner of obedience and subjection due to pope or foreign councils , are excommunicate . 2. those that say that the book of common prayer containeth any thing in it repugnant to the scriptures are , ipso facto excommunicate . which now by the new laws are interpreted of the present books . 3. in this all are excommunicate who say , the mis-translations ( in psalms , epistles or gospels , of which many instances have been given ) to be any thing repugnant in the scripture . 4. and all that say , it is against the scripture to deny christendom to all infants that have not such vowers in their names and for their education as we call godfathers , and godmothers , thô the parent ( who is forbidden it ) offer his child by sponsion . 5. and all that say it is against scripture to deny christendom to all that refuse the covenanting transient images of a cross . 6. and all that say that it is against scripture for all ministers to profess [ that it 's certain by gods word that baptized infants ( without exception ) so dying are undoubtedly saved ] when no word of god is cited that saith it , and adding to gods word is dreadfully threatned , and when it 's certain that all ministers are not certain of any such thing ( and i think no one . ) 7. all are ipso facto excommunicate that say , it is against gods word to deny church communion in the sacrament to all that dare not take it kneeling , for fear ( thô mistaken ) of breaking the second commandment by symbolizing with idolaters , that are seeking to reduce the nation to their sin , and that live round about us . 8. all are excommunicate that say it is against scripture to pronounce all saved that are buryed , except the unbaptized , self-murderers and the excommunicate , while thousands of sadducees , hobbists , infidels , papists , perjured , adulterers , drunkards , &c. dwell among us . 9. by the fifth canon all are ipso facto excommunicate that say , [ any of the armies are in any part erroneous , or such as they ( perhaps as doubters ) may not with a good conscience subscribe to , ] and cousequently all the aforesaid conformists that think the sence erroneous while they subscribe those words and snall affirm , e. g. that canons are made necessary to salvation , thô the matter cannot be proved by scripture , contrary to art. 6. those that contrary to art. 8. say , any thing in athanasius creed may not be subscribed . such as bishop taylour that against art. 9. deny original sin. those that say contrary to art. 10. that the word [ no power ] excludeth common natural power , or maketh nature to be grace . those that write against our being accounted righteous , only for christs merits , and say that another subordinate righteousness is named many hundred times in scripture , contrary to art. 11. those that contrary to art. 13. say , that works done before the inspiration of the spirit may make men meet to receive grace . those that with dr. hammond write for works that are not commanded but counselled , and free-will-offerings , contrary to art. 14. all they that take infants and new baptized persons to have no sin , contrary to art. 15. all that say , that after we have received the h. ghost , we cannot depart from grace given , contrary to art. 16. those that deny the doctrine of election , in art. 17. those that say , any on earth may be saved by diligent living according to the light of nature , without knowing the name of christ , contrary to art. 18. those that contrary to art. 19. reject that description of a visible church , which reacheth to such as our resolver damneth . all that contrary to art. 20. say , that the church [ may not enforce any thing to be believed for necessity to salvation , besides the scripture ] even those that say , it 's necessary to salvation , by avoiding schism to believe that all imposed tyths , covenants practices , and ceremonies are not sin . all that contrary to art. 21. say , that general or other councils may be gathered without the command and will of princes , and deny they may erre , and things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declared that they are taken out of holy scripture . those that deny art. 23. that those are lawfully called and sent into the ministry , who have publick authority given them in the congregation , to call and send ministers into the lords vineyard , are chosen and called hereto , ( for want of canonical succession . ) those that contrary to art. 24. would have gods worship performed to them that understand not the language , to avoid the schism of having many churches in a city . those that take confirmation or penance , or the other three for sacraments of the gospel contrary to art 25. those that contrary to art. 26. would not have it believed to be the peoples duty , who know the offences of bad ministers , to accuse them . all that contrary to art. 27. are against infant baptism , as agreeable to christs institution . all that contrary to art. 28. say , the body of christ is given and taken and eaten in the sacrament otherwise than in a spiritual manner by faith. all that say , that in some wise the wicked are partakers of christ in the sacrament , contrary to art. 29. all that contrary to art. 30. say , there is other satisfaction for sin besides christs blood. all that say , that men justly excommunicate may be reconciled and received by the multitude without open penance ( which is ordinary ) contrary to art. 33. all that contrary to art. 34. think that a general council may ordain such traditions or ceremonies as shall in all places be one or the like : and that every particular or national church may not abolish those ceremonies or rites which the general council or colledge ordained . many things in the book of homilies [ especially against peril of idolatry ] are blamed by many conformists , contrary to art. 35. all that contrary to art. 36. say , that the book of ordination wants some things necessary . all that contrary to art. 37. think that pope or foreign bishops have any jurisdiction by right in this land : and all that ( by mistake ) say , the king hath not chief power in all his dominions , meaning in france , of which he professeth to be king , and we so call him even in our prayers to god. all that say , contrary to art. 38. that it is not their duty liberally to give alms , according to their ability . all that contrary to art. 39 think men in conforming may swear upon trust of their superiours words , without judgment , and true understanding of justice and truth . a●●●●l these are already ipso facto excommunicated by this one canon , and if they elsewhere worship god , are called separatists and schismaticks , in danger of damnation , as adulterers and murtherers are : and how grea●●●● a number are these ? 10. all are ipso facto excommunicate by the sixth canon , who affirm , that the rites and ceremonies of the church of england , by law established , are superstitious , or such as ( now commanded ) men who are zealously and godly affected , may not with a good conscience approve , use and subscribe as occasion requireth . that is , all that thus mistake kneeling at the sacrament , on the reasons aforenamed , to be against the second commandment , or that judge so of the surplice , or that think the gross , as described by the canon and liturgy , hath all the essentials of a humane unlawful sacrament of the covenant of grace . and all that are against the rites of godfathers that never owned the child as theirs , to be the only sponsors in its name , and to vow its christian education ( when i never knew one living that so much as made the parents believe that he intended it : ) and all that think the words of the liturgy ( making imposition of hands an assuring sign of gods gracious acceptance ) make confirmation a humane unlawful sacrament , and say so . all these are cut off . 11. by canon seventh all are ipso facto excommunicate that affirm , that the government of the church of england , under his majesty , by arch-bishops , bishops , deans , archdeacons , and the rest that bear office in the same , is repugnant to gods word ; that is , all bishops , ministers , noblemen , gentlemen or people , that say that it is against gods word for lay civilians or chancellours to govern by the church keyes , excommunicate or absolve : and all that think it unlawful for surrogates that are not bishops but presbyters , either as a cryer pro forma to pronounce all excommunicate or absolved who are so decreed by the lay chancellor , or else for them ( or a priest-chancellour ) to govern a diocess by the keyes of excommunication and absolution being no bishops ; and all that think it sinful for archdeacons , commissaries , officials , &c. who are no bishops , to exercise the same government by the keyes over so many pastors or churches , or for a bishop . to do his office by others that are no bishops , any more than a priest by those that are no priests ; or for a diocesan with his lay court , to govern many score or hundred churches under him , without any subordinate bishop in those churches , that is , to set up the name and shew , and make christs discipline impossible : or for lay chancellors or surrogates to publish excommunications in the bishops name , which he never knew of , nor tryed the cause : or for such chancellours to oblige all parish ministers to publish all their excommunications which are agreeable to these canons . what quality and number they are of that call any of this sinful , i pretend not to know : but they are all now excommunicate men . 12. the eight canon ipso facto excommunicateth all that affirm that the form and manner of making and consecrating bishops , priests and deacons hath any thing , repugnant to gods word , &c : ] that is , all those that hold bishops and presbyters to be the same order ( contrary to the words of that book . ) which yet even the church of england while papists declared in king aelfriks canons ( see spelman : ) and all such as thorndike , who say the people and clergy should choose their bishops ; or that say the peoples consent is necessary to the pastoral relation to them , and that the old canons for this are in force . 13. the ninth canon ipso facto excommunicateth the separatists . 14. the tenth canon excommunicateth all that affirm [ that ministers that refuse to subscribe to the liturgy , &c. and their adherents may truely take to themselves the name of another church , not established , by law and dare publish that this their pretended church hath long groaned under the burden of imposed grievances , by the church of england , and the orders and constitutions therein by law established . ] ( ipso facto is not here . ) this reacheth to all that confine not gods church in england to the party that subscribe and their adherents : if any say , that if such as blondel , rivet , amesius , or any other the most learned , holy , peaceable men that dare not subscribe as aforesaid , should with any christians worship god together , and that these are a true church ( though he judge them faulty ) and that these canons are grievances , such are to be excommunicated : ( though it be gross schism in others to confine not onely the purity but the verity of a church to their own party : ) for such to feel and groan loud here is excommunication . 15. the eleventh canon much to the same purpose requireth the excommunication of all that affirm that any subjects in england may rightly challenge the name of true and lawful churches besides those allowed by law , though the king should license them . 16. the twelfth canon ipso facto excommunicateth all , that make rules and orders in causes ecclesiastical without the kings authority , and submit to them , e. g. all that without the kings authority agree to turn the table altar-wise , to require people to kneel at the rails , or to bow toward the alter or east , or to set up organs , &c. all these are now excommunicate by an authority above the bishops , which no bishop or priest can dispense with ( but only forbear to publish and execute it , but not nullifie it ) no nor absolve any that publickly repent not of it as a wicked errour . 16. by canon fourteenth , if any minister shall diminish any part of the orders , rites , ceremonies , prayers , &c. inregard of preaching or any other respect , or shall adde any thing in matter or form , ( e. g. if he let the parent express the dedication of his child to god , or lay any charge on any parent ) he breaketh the church law , and so far separateth from it . 17. by canon fifteenth when twenty or thirty thousand are commanded to come to a church that cannot receive six thousand , and the alleys and pewes are wedg'd so that they cannot all kneel , yet all that kneel not at the prayers , and all that say not audibly the confession , lords prayer , creed and responses , disobey the laws of the church , and so far separate from it . 18. when twenty thousand persons are commanded to come in more than can , if ten thousand of them ( or any number ) should come to the church-yard or porch , to shew that they are not presentable , but would get in if they could , the nineteenth canon commands to drive them away . 19. the liturgy and canon 22. &c. bind all under the penalty of the law to receive the sacrament thrice every year : if a secret infidel , sadducee , hobbist , socinian , or any heretick say , i am not able to change my judgment , which is inconsistent with the sacrament , or if one whose conscience tells him of the guilt of adultery , and that he is not resolved to confess and forsake it yet ; or one that by melancholy causelessly feareth unworthy receiving to damnation ; i say , if any of these will avoid the charge of schism , they must run upon worse , till grace recover them , which is not at their command . and yet all notorious offenders are prohibited it canon 26. and particularly the perjured : and if the tenth part so many be perjured in england in city and countrey , as many fear , it 's a very great number that are uncapable of comm-union with the church . 20. by canon twenty seventh on pain of suspension no minister must wittingly administer the communion to any but such as kneel , or to any that refuse to be present at publick prayers , &c. so that all that kneel not in receiving are rejected , and if they worship god elsewhere , must be taken for schismaticks , as dangerous as adulterers or murderers . 21. the twenty eighth canon forbids admitting strangers to communion , and commands sending them home to their parish churches : it 's disobedience to violate this . 22. the twenty ninth canon forbids urging parents to be present when their children are baptized , and admitting them to answer as godfathers for their own children ; and any godfather to make any other answer or speech than the prescribed . 23. the thirtieth canon describeth the cross as a sacrament , as seemeth to us . 34. by the thirty sixth canon no man must be a minister that subscribeth not that the book of common prayer and ordination contains nothing in it contrary to the word of god , and that he himself will use no other form in publick , prayer and administration of the sacraments : by which all that refuse this , or that use the forms made and imposed by the bishops on occasions of publick fasts and thanksgivings , seem all to be under disobedience to the church . 35. by canon fourty ninth no person not licensed as a preacher , may in his cure or elsewhere , expound any scripture , or matter or doctrine , but onely shall study to read plainly the homilies : so that all ministers before licence to preach , all school-masters , all parents , or masters , that do expound to their schollars , children or servants , the meaning of baptism , or of any article of the creed , any petition of the lords prayer , any one of the ten commandments ( to fit them for confirmation , or salvation ) otherwise than by plain reading the homilies or church catechism , doth disobey the law of the church : and so do all tutors in the universities that expound any scripture , matter or doctrine to their pupils , before they are examined or approved by the bishop ; or any judge on the bench or justice that presumeth to do it to the hearers , or any friend or neighbour in discourse : for it is [ no person whatsoever not examined and approved by the bishop of the diocess . ] how few in england separate not from the church as far as this disobedience amounts to ? if by [ no persons ] be meant only [ no ministers ] it 's hard enough , that ministers may not be allowed out of the church what lay-men are allowed . 36. all those that deny not the validity of baptism or the lords supper when they are done by an unpreaching minister , but yet think that a man utterly unable to teach otherwise than by reading , may not lawfully be encouraged in so high a function , ( any more than a man in physick or school-teaching that hath not necessary skill , or is utterly illiterate , ) and thinks it a sin to consent to take such an ignorant fellow for the pastor of his soul if he can have better ; if this man , i say , go to the next parish church for sacraments , he is to be suspended first and next excommunicate : specially if he should judge that ignorant reader , no true minister for want of necessary capacity . 37. surplices , hoods and tippets are made the matter of obedience , canon fifty eighth . 38. by canon thirty eighth no minister must refuse or delay to christen any child ( without exception ) according to the form of the common prayer , that 's brought to church to him on sundaies or holy-daies , though the parents be both jewes or heathens or atheists or sadducees : the minister must be suspended that refuseth it . 39. the seventy first canon suspendeth all ministers that preach in any private house ( except to the sick or impotenti n time of necessity . ) by which had paul here preached publickly and from house to house , or timothy in season and out of season as dreadfully adjured , or christ preacht as he oft did , they must be suspended : and every minister that preacheth to his family . and no doubt , repeating his sermon , is preaching the same again . 40. all ministers must be suspended and then excommunicate , that without the bishops licence appoint or keep any solemn fasts publickly or in private houses , other than by law appointed , or be wittingly present at any : though it were in time of plague , or when divers of his neighbours are sick or troubled in conscience , or in preparation to a sacrament , or on some great occasion in noble-mens houses and chappels : he is not to be trusted to fast and pray with his own flock or friends , or come among them , lest being excommunicate he be a damn'd schismatick . the same prohibition is for holding meetings for sermons called exercises : which arch-bishop grindall was zealous to set up , ( q. was he then a schismatick ? or is the damning dangerous engine made since ? ) 41. by canon seventy third if any ministers meet in any privat ehouse ( as many did by consent in 1660. and 1661. ) to do any thing that any way tends to impeach the common prayer or any part of the government and discipline ( e. g. to petition king or parliament for the least reformation of it ) he is excommunicate ipso facto . 42. canon seventy fourth brings all ministers apparel under church laws , for the shape . 43. canon seventy sixth excommunicateth all that voluntarily relinquish their ministry , and use themselves as a lay-men . and man having free will , that is done voluntarily , which is done in obedience to mens command : and yet we are ruined in the world , if we will not leave our ministry , at their command . 44. it 's tedious to go over all the rest : i end at the end of them . canon 139. excommunicateth all them that affirm that the synod is not the true church of england by representation : that is , 1. all that take it for the church real and not representative , lest they make the diffused church ( people and all ) to be chief church-governours , while convocations govern but as their representatives . 2. all that say , that it is only the bishops and not the presbyters in convocation that are the governing canon-making church . 3. all that say that the clergy represent not king , nobles , parliaments , laiety , and that these are true parts of the church of england . all these are ipso facto excommunicate . 45. the 140. canon excommunicateth them that deny the canons obligation of absent dissenters , which yet even many papists deny of councils canons . 46. the last canon excommunicateth all that contemn these canons , as taking them to be the work of a company of persons that conspired against religious godly men . all this huge catalogue are here excommunicate . 47. if any part of all this be schism , mr. dodwell ad this man seem to teach separation from the church of england : or if the late silencing , hunting and ruining of two thousand ministers were schism , and as bad as bishop taylor in duct . dubit . mr. hales of eaton , chillingworth , &c. say of the like , then these men make all the church of england to be in as damnable a state as adulterers and murderers . yea they make all damnable schismaticks that hold communion with the church of england ; for that is their sentence on them that communicate with schismaticks ; viz. that they are guilty of their schism . 48. they unchurch and damn the churches of corinth , galatia , laodicea , ephesus , smyrna , &c. in the apostles dayes : for the scripture tells us of many guilty of schism in all these , and yet the rest communicated with them ; for the scripture speaks more of schism in a chruch , than of schism or separation from a church , rom. 16. 17. 1 cor. 1. 10. & 3. 3. & 11. 18. mat. 12 , 25. luke 12. 52 , 53. i cor. 12. 25. jam. 3. 15 , 16. and yet no one was commanded to separate from those churches ; no not from those that had heresies among them , such as denyed the resurrection , and taught fornication , and eating things offered to idols , that were drunk at the sacrament or love-feasts , nor those that had jewish schismaticks , who talkt like ours , act. 15. except ye be circumcised and keep the law of moses , ye cannot be saved . the churches were not all unchurcht and damn'd that communicated with such . yea peter was guilty of encouraging them in schism , that would not eat with the christian gentiles , but he was not unchristened by this . 49. they separate from or unchurch almost all the ancient churches in the dayes of the most famous emperours and councils . for i have manifested past doubt that they almost all did hereticat●●●● or separate from one another . it was schism either in victor to excommunicate the asian bishops , or in them to deserve it and be excommunicate . the owning or disowning several councils , specially that of calcedon and that at constde tribus capitulis , &c. was the schism of almost all the imperial churches ; one part condemning the other . and if either were in the right , it salves not the case with them : for most of the same men that went that way call'd the right in one princes reign , went contrary in the next , and so condemned each other round ; especially about images adoration . 50. hereby they cut off that succession of that sort of ordination , which they say must be uninterrupted , while it came down from churches excommunicated by one another , or make the proof of it impossible . 51. they separate from all the greek church at this day , as guilty of schism , both in their succession from schismaticall bishops , at constant . alexand. antioch , jerusalem , &c. and in their excommunicating not only the church of rome for a wrong cause ( the filioque , but other churches , and for divers acts of schism . 52. they must by their principles separate from the abassines , aegyptians , syrians , and all the eastern and southern churches that are called jacobites , and nestorians : for councils and other churches condemn them : and they condemn the councils of ephesus , and calcedon , and all since : and they must separate from and condemn the churches of armenia , georgia , circassia , &c. because they separate from others , and are separated from . 53. their principles utterly unchurch the church of rome , 1. especially because it is guilty of the greatest schism on earth , by setting up a false church form and head : 2. and because they schismatically condemn and unchurch three parts of the church on earth , even all save their sect : 3. and for their many other schismatical doctrines and practices : 4. and as being condemned by the greek protestants and most churches , and separated from by the church of england which they own . 54. they separate in principles from all or near all general councils ( save the first ) as having separated from other councils and condemned them , and being again condemned by them . 55. some of them condemn and separate from all the protestant churches that have bishops , in sweden , denmark , germany , transylvania , &c. because they had not their ordination successively from bishops but presbyters at the reformation : and because they have been guilty of schism against others . 56. the principles of mr. dodwel and his associates condemn the church of england , as schismatical , 1. those that claim succession from rome , whose own succession hath been oft and long interrupted , by incapacities and schisms . 2. for holding communion with those protestant churches which these men call schismaticks . 57. they condemn and separate from all the churches called presbyterian in france , holland , geneva , scotland formerly , and those in helvetia that have no bishops ; tho some would threat kindness on them by saying that they would have them and cannot ? and why cannot they ? 58. their principles make the bishop of oxford , bristol , &c. schismaticks : for their dioceses are churches taken out of churches , being lately parts of other dioceses . 59. and they condemn all the parish churches in england as churches distinct from cathedrals : for they are all churches gathered out of churches : at first the cathedrals were the only single churches : next monasteries were gathered ; and next our parish churches . and the parish church of covent-garden , is a church taken out of a church . 60. their principles damn st. martin that separated to the death from all the bishops synods and them that were near him ( save one man ) because they perswaded maximus to use the sword against priscillian gnosticks , and brought men of strict religion under suspicion of priscillianism : and sure the ruined persecuted protestants here , are more orthodox than the priscillians . and they damn gildas that told the english clergy , that he was not eximius christianus that would call them ministers ; ( do they not disgrace the many churches dedicated to the memory of st. martin , if he be a damned man ? ) i doubt they damn paul and barnabas for local angry separating from each other : whatever they do by peter and barnabas for the separation blamed gal. 2. 61. if all are schismaticks that here conform not , all those called conformists are such , that conform to the words in a false sence . 62. they separate from all that obey the twentieth canon of the nicene council : and from all that obey the councils that forbid communicating with a fornicating priest : and from all that obey the councils which nullifie the episcopacy of such as are obtruded by magistrates , or not consented to by the clergy and people . and many more such . abundance more instances of their separation , and damnation , i might adde : in a word , i think then principles are , as i first said , for damning and separating from all men living , for all men living are guilty of some sort and degree of schism , that is , of errours , principles or practices in which they culpably violate that union and concord that should be among christians and churches : every defect of christian love , and every sinful errour , is some degree of such a violation . all christians differ in as great matters as things indifferent : and no man living knoweth all things indifferent to be such : and these men distinguish not of schism , nor will take notice of the necessary distinctions given ( in the third part of the treatise of church concord , ) and solutio cont●●●● causeth pain : nor do they at all make us understand what sort of separation it is that they fasten on , but talk of separation in general , as aforesaid . lxxxvii . they seeme to be themselves deceived by the papists in exposition of cyprians , words de vnit. eccles . vnus est episcopatus , &c. but they themselves seem to separate from cyprian as a schismatick , and consequently from all the church that hath profest communion with him , and with all the councils and churches that joyned with him : for cyprian and his council erred by going too far from the schism and heresie of others , nullifying all their baptisms , ordinations and communions : and for this errour they declared against the judgment of the bishop of rome and other churches ; and they were for it condemned as schismaticks by the said bishop : and here is a far wider separation than we can be charged with . 2. and cyprians words came from the mind that was possest with these opinions , and are expressive of his inclination . 3. yet they are true and good , understood as he himself oft expounds them ; the bishop of oxford citeth some instances , many more are obvious , in which he opposeth the bishop of rome , saying , that none of them pretendeth to be a bishop of bishops ; and limiting every man to his own province , and saying that they were to give account to none but god , with much the like . but in what sence is episcopacie one ? 1. undoubtedly not as numerically in the personal subjectum relationis : one bishop is not another ; if you should say paternity is one , none believe that one mans relation of paternity is anothers . the relation is an accident of its own subject , as well as quantity , quality , &c. 2. nor doth any man believe that many bishops go to make up one bishop in naturals . 3. nor did ever cyprian hold or say that all bishops go to make up one politick governing aristocracie , as many go to make one senate or parliament , that hath a power of legislation and judgment by vote as one persona politica . he never owned such a humane soveraignty . but episcopatus unus est , i. in specie , all bishops have one office ; 2. objective : as the catholick church is one , whose welfare all bishops ought to seek : 3. and so finaliter as to the remote end ; and are bound to endeavour concord . 4. and as effects , all are from one efficient institutor . as it may be said that all official magistracy in england is one : 1. as from one king or summa potestas : 2. as described by one law , and as justices of one species : 3. as all their cities and counties and hundreds are but part of one kingdom , whose welfare all are for : 4. and as they are all bound to keep as much common concord as they can ; if any mean more , they should ten us what ; if any mean that all bishops make one numerical universal government , they are heinous schismaticks , and the kingdom is sworn agaisst their judgment : and these men damn them in damning schismaticks . the truth is , cyprian de unitate , ecclesiae ( leaving out the papists additions ) is a good book and worthy , to be read of all ; and take cyprian's description of the epispcopacy of the church which we must unite with , and the nature of that union , and we would rejoyce in such . but if cyprian had lived to see 〈◊〉 arians or donatists the greater number ; or any sect after 〈◊〉 themselves the church because that princes set them up , and had seen them depo●●●●e chrysostome and such other , doubtless he would never have pleaded the unity of episcopacy for this , but have judged as he did in the case of martial and basilides ; nor did he ever plead for an universal humane soveraignty . lxxxviii . if we are damned schismaticks , i can imagine no pretended manner of separation in which our schism consists , but first , either local as such . 2. or mental , as such . 3. or local , caused by mental . if local , as such be it : all christians are schismaticks , for being locally separated from others , and absent from all churches ; and places save one . if mental separation be it , either all mental division is such , or but some only ; if all , then all mortal men are schismaticks , as differing in a multitude of things from others ; if it be not all , what is it ? is it all difference in the essentials of christianity ? we grant it ; and we are charg'd with no such thing . is it all difference in the integrals or accidents ? so do all differ that are not perfect . is it all want of love , or all vncharitableness to one another ? all on earth have some degree of it ; and those are likest to have most , that do as the bishops did against the priscillianists , bring godly people under reproach , on pretence of opposing heresie ; or that seek the silencing , imprisonment , banishment or ruine of men as faithful as themselves : for our parts , we profess it our great duty , to love all men as men , all christians as christians , all godly men as godly , all magistrates as magistrates , &c. is it for our separating in mind from any principles in specie necessary to communion in the church universal , or single churches ? let it be opened what those principles be : we own all christianity , and all ministry of gods institution , and all his church ordinances : we own bishops over their flocks , let them be never so large , so they be capable of the work and end , and alter not the true species ; and we submit to any that shall by the word admonish pastors of many churches of their duty , or sin , or seek their good . nor do we refuse obedience to any humane officers set up by princes , to do nothing against christs laws , not nothing but what is in princes power in the accidents circa sacra . is it because we disown any numerical rulers ? we own the king and his magistrates , we own all that we can understand to be true pastors ; and if we are in doubt of their calling , we resist them not , unless obeying christ before them be resistance : but our accusers loudly profess , that usurpers are not to be owned ; and if they go on the ground , that he hath right that the prince is for , we would know , whether that hold in turky , in italy , spain , france , or only in england , or where ? if it be where princes are orthodox , do they make all the people judges of their princes orthodoxness ? and we would know , whether every bishops and priests right , as a true minister , called of god , and set over us , be necessary to salvation , to be believed or known by all the people ? if it the , wo to us , that ever such men were set over us , whose right we cannot know : what abundance of things go to make a bishops or priests right known ! 1. that he hath capable sufficiency . 2. that he is a just bishop , that 's chosen by the king , the dean and chapter obediently consenting , & that the clergy's and peoples consent is unnecessary . 3. that the diocesan species ( over multitudes of churches without any subordinate bishop ) is of christ , or lawful . 4. that their work , according to the canon , is lawful . 5. that all our patrons have right to chuse pastors for all the people . 6. that they are true pastors over them that consent not . 7. that if they prove worse far than martial and basilides , and be owned by the bishops as they were , the people may not forsake them ( plebs obsequens divinis praeceptis , ) which saith cyprian have most power to chuse or refuse . is every christian bound on pain of damnation to know all these , and then to examine and judge bishops and priests accordingly ? or if they mistake one or more mens commission , do they therefore separate from the catholick church ? if so , what a case was the east in by the difference between chrysostome and his competitors ? photius and ignatius and hundreds others ? and france , about the archbishops of rhemes , when he was put out that deposed ludovicus 4. and when an infant was put in , and oft besides ? what if the alexandrians , when athanasius was banisned by , constantine himself , were half for him , and half against him ? or basil at caesarea was put down , and hundreds more , or when theodosius first and second and martian , and valentinian , and zeno , and anastasius and abundance more , set up and pull'd down , and set up again against each other ? what , i say , if the people now mistooke who had the best title ? is this separating from the catholick church ? when the interim cast out hundreds in germany ; when ludovicus cast out multitudes in the palatinate , and half the people stuck to the ejected , persecuted pastor , and the rest to the magistrates choice , which of them separated from the universal church ? is every priest the vniversal church , or an essential part of it ? then it dyeth when he dyeth , and apostatizeth when he doth . how many ages in above 23 duplicates or schisms , was the world uncertain which was the true pope ? suppose , e. g. arthur jackson , edmund calamy , and many such were placed in their incumbency , by the bishops , patrons and parish consent , according to the law of christ and the land , and by a mew act of uniformity they be all turned out , the flock not consenting , nor any bishop accusing , trying or deposing them ( save in legislation , ) and some of the parish think this dissolveth not their relation to him , and they cleave to him as before , without any change save of place and tythes , and others forsake such a one , and follow the magistrates choice , may not both these be still of the catholick church ? if not , i know where the old canons laid the charge and danger . it 's wonderful selfishness in those men , that if they can but get into the seat , take it for granted , that all must own their right on pain of damnation . and what if in any such land , the prince change his mind , or the next differ , and put down all these same men , and set up such as differ from them more than we do , is it damning schism for any of their people still to adhere to them ? lxxxix . do you find that mr. dodwel , dr. saywel , dr. sherlock , or any of these men , do , in pulpit and press , ingenuously tell the people the truth of the case , when they liken men as schismaticks to murderers for danger ? did you ever hear them say , [ the canon , which is the churches voice and law , doth excommunicate you all that do own your opinions against conformity , and commandeth us not to admit you to the sacrament , and yet to pronounce your excommunication for not taking it : we confess they have been holy and learned men that have thought many things imposed unlawful ; and therefore we wonder not if it be not in your power to change your judgment , no more than to be perfect in knowledge ; and we confess if you are unjustly excommunicated , or any of the things made necessary to communion be against gods word , then it is the church that guilty of schism , but because this is not so , we accuse you of schism , even of separating from the vniversal church , and from salvation . xc . i do admire , that never any one of them would be prevail'd with to prove the canons excommunications ipso facto lawful , when even papists have scorn'd all such doings ; and when the learnedst of all their own admired men , that were for comprimising matters with rome , even mar. ant. de dom. spalatensis de rep. eccl. hath so confidently , copiously and strenuously damn'd it : christ would have none excommunicate , whatever the crime be , without impenitency after due admonition for repentance , but these canons ipso facto condemn and excommunicate godly men , without ever admonishing them , or calling them to repent , or hearing or seeing them : nothing is necessary but the proof of the fact , and then the law is instead of a judge ; and to oblige the people to avoid them , it must be published . if this and all things named in the first plea for peace , be sinless , studying and disputing is not the way to know what is sinful . xci . but , saith the resolver , [ christ hath but one body , and to be a member of two separate and opposite churches , is to be contrary to ourselves . ] ans . but i had hoped your catechized boyes had known , 1. that one body hath many parts . 2. that particular churches are parts of this body , as corporations are of the kingdom . 3. that all the parts are imperfect , and made up of none but sinners . 4. that every good man is partly bad , and so contrary to himself 5. that churches may be so far separate as to be distinct , and yet not so far as to be contrary or opposite . 6. that they may be opposite in accidents and integrals , that are one in specie in essentials . 7. that a man may own several churches , and communicate with them for that which they agree in , and yet not own both , ( or either perhaps ) in that which they are opposite in . 8. that there being somewhat opposite in all men and churches on earth , you damn your selves for communicating with them . 9. that a man may have more communion with the church which he locally separateth from , even for sin , than with that which he is present with . e. g. a congregation or nation of men of eminent sanctity and order , sound doctrine and worship , may , by humane frailty take some one falsehood or uncertain thing to be necessary to ministry or communion ( as they say some churches unhappily of late reject all that own not the antiquity of the hebrew points ) i cannot have local communion with that church , for they will not receive me , unless i subscribe either a falshood , ( or that which i judge false ; ) but yet i highly honour and love them , and have mental catholick communion with them , when perhaps necessity may make me locally join with a church of far worse men and order , that will impose no sin on me . 10. and i would advise these men , did they not despise my advice , for the church of englands sake , and their own , to retract their errours , and not lay such a snare before the people . should you say in the pulpit , [ if the church be guilty of any schism by her impositions , ( oft-named ) excommunications and silencing of christs ministers , and afflicting good people without just cause , then i , and all that communicate with it and me , communicate in the guilt of schism , and are all in as much danger of damnation by it as adulterers and murderers ] tell not your hearers this , for if you do , some will think you bid them separate or be damned , and only make a doubt whether most men have noses or not . xci1 . qu. but is not the inference true ? ans . no , it 's false : there are twenty cases in which 1. one may be guilty of schism and not be a schismatick , as denominated from what predominateth : 2. and as many in which he is not at all guilty that communicateth with the guilty . and let the world ( that is sober and awake ) judge now whether these men or we be the greater schismaticks , and which more condemneth or separateth from the church of england . we say that all churches have some degree of schism , and so hath the church of england , as it hath imperfection , errour and sin ; but that it is not therefore no church , nor is it unlawful to communicate with it ; all christians and churches must not be separated from that are guilty of some degree of schism . if any will turn these serious matters into jest , and say , as dr. saywell , that they will receive greeks , lutherans , &c. that come to their communion , his serious readers will tell him , that so will most sects receive those that approve of their communion and come to them : joyning with you signifyeth that they are of your way therein ; but will you go to their churches and communicate with them ? you will receive the damned schismaticks if they come to you , when yet you make it damnable to joyn in their meetings with them . this quibbling beseems not grave men in great matters . to conclude , reader , god having allowed more legislative power to men in things secular than in religion , i may say this case is like ours in debate . i. some judges and lawyers say , that the oath of allegiance makes a subject in this kingdom ; that the renouncing or violating it by treason , or rebellion , or deserting the kingdom , overthrows the relation . but that other particular faults or quarrels against neighbours , justices , judges , yea the king himself , are punishable according to the laws , but are not all rebellion , nor dissolve subjection , nor oblige the subjects to renounce civil converse with each other ; though some contempt and obstinacy may outlaw them . such is our judgment of church relation and communion , which 1 need not rehearse . ii. suppose a sect of lawyers and judges arise , that say , no men are the kings subjects , but are rebels , that break any of his laws , that shoot not in long bows , that bury not their dead in woollen , that swear prophanely , that eat flesh in lent unlicensed , that have any unjust law-suit , that wrong any neighbour , that oppress any poor man , all these are rebels ; yea all that plead opposite causes at the bar , and all judges that judge contrary to one another , and all that misunderstand any point of law and practice accordingly , and all that besides the oath of allegiance do constitute marriages , families , schools , societyes by any other covenants of their own , and all that are of different cities and companies , parts of the kingdom , or all whose justices , mayors , sheriffs , &c. differ from one another in any point of law and practice : or all that obey not every constable and justice ; or that go to divers justices in the same precincts , or that go from one justice to another to avoid unrighteous judgment , or that go from the physician of the place for health , and from the schoolmaster of the town for greater edification , or that travel beyond sea for knowledge , yea all that understand not every word in the law , that may concern them : if any say , none of these are the kings subjects , but rebels , opposite to him and one another , and deserve to be all hang'd as murderers , and so are all that have communion with them ; quaere , 1. whether these men are for the unity of england ? 2. and are friends to the king that deprive him of all his subjects ; as much as those that would have him have no subjects , that be not of the same age , stature , complexion and wit. 3. and whether they are friends to mankind ? 4. and whether they . condemn not themselves if they live not as anchorets , out of humane society . 5. and whether that nation be not by infatuation prepared for destruction that would believe them , and would hate , scorn and ruine them that are of the first mentioned opinion , according to the saying , quos perdere vult jupiter , hos dementat . as to the more dangerous doctrine now threatning this land , that would subject england to a foreign jurisdiction , on pretence of a necessity of either an universal church monarch , or church-parliament senate or council , or of all the church on earth represented by patriarchs or metropolitans , or that plead for subjection to them , under the name of communion , they require a distinct answer . but dr. is . barrow , and mr. beverley's catholick catechism , have effectually done it . finis . the second part against schism : being animadversions on a book famed to be mr. raphson's . london : printed for tho. parkhurst , at the bible and three crowns in cheapside , near mercers-chappel . 1684. to the reader . reader , when i had written the first of these discourses , i came after to know more of the authors judgment , by another book against me ; which i also answered , but it lyeth by unprinted . i also wrote , for the use of some private friends , my reasons for communion with those parish-churches who have capable ministers , which many importuned me to print ; but that also is yet undone : but a book famed to be mr. raphsons coming out , i thought it my duty to animadvert on that , and to bear my testimony against schism on both extreams , left i be guilty of partiality , and of the sin and suffering of many that may be deceived by them . if these two be not overmuch discouraged , the other two against both the extreams may come hereafter . the second part against schism , &c. the reasons of mr. raphson , and such others , against going to the parish-churches , considered . the matter of his book , as against persecution , is very considerable ; the stile is very close and pungent : his doctrine against communion with the churches that use the liturgy , is that which i examine . the sum of it is , 1. that kneeling at the reception of the sacrament , and the use of the liturgy , are unlawful . 2. that they are false worship , and idolatry . 3. that the places where they are used , are idol-temples . 4 that to joyn there in them , is to partake in idolatry . 5. the proof of all this is by this argument ; worship not institute , is not lawful ; but kneeling in receipt of bread and wine , is worship not instituted by christ : therefore not lawful ; therefore not pleasing , p. 160 , 161. to which , by way of motive , he addeth , p. 275. how many once in the separation , are returned back to the vomit they once cast up , and wallow in the mire of a worldly worship ? &c. is compliance in idol-temples , going to dan and bethel , bowing to baal , sitting , or drinking with the superstitious inacts of religious adoration , a witness for , or against defection ? are you turned as silly sheep ( that once were called shepherds ) , to bleat after other shepherds , that christ never sent , nor bid you go after them , &c. looks it not like a declining of the camp of christ , the work of the gospel , and setting your face towards babel , & c. ? is scandal of no weight with you , & c. ? how dare you venture your souls to sit under means that he says shall not profit you ; and which is worse , lies under his curse ? jer. 23. 32. mal. 1. 14. with more such . either this writer knoweth how ill he dealeth with his reader , or not : if he do , it 's a double fault : if not ( which i think ) , it 's a doleful case , that every well-meaning man , that can but be confident in his ignorance and error , and father it on god , should become such a snare to them that cannot see through his pretences , and should himself suffer for sinning , and call it the cause of god , and condemn all that sin not as confidently as he ; and hereby harden his afflicters , by shewing them his weakness , and impenitently justifying his sin . if he would not have ensnared his reader , he should first have opened the meaning of the words of his question , that they might know how much of the dispute is material , and how much only about words . 2. and then he should have so proved his assertion and accusation , as might satisfie a good conscience in a matter wherein god , the church , and souls , are so much concerned ; and not have poured out accusations by way of motives , upon unproved and false suppositions . i find but one argument , which i shall now answer plainly : his major is , [ worship not instituted , is not lawful ] ans . 1. the word [ worship ] in general , signifieth , 1. any thing done in honour to another ; and so all our obedience to god is worship : it is to his glory that we must do all . i suppose that this he meaneth not . 2. any immediate act or expression of the honour and reverence of the heart . if this be not it that he meaneth by worship , i know not what he meaneth . this worship , as within , is the secret act of the soul ; as exprest , it is the act of the body . of such worship there are two sorts : one sort is made necessary , statedly , by god's commanding it in particular . to this no man must add the like , or from it diminish any thing so commanded , either pretending god's authority , or his own . the other sort is but the subordinate ordering of the former , and is but the manner of doing it . this god doth not institute in particular , but only give man a general rule , how to choose it himself ; which is , that all be done in love , and to edification , decently and in order . either this latter sort is to be called worship , or not : if it be , then it falls under his opposition : if not , then , 1. he must give us a definition of worship , which shall exclude it ; and so worship must be somewhat else than the direct or immediate acting or expressing honour to god : and then who knows what he meaneth by it ? 2. and then when we plead for mens making none but this , he should to avoid deceit , confess that the controversie is only of the name ( whether modes and circumstances of god's instituted worship , may be called worship ) , and not at all of the thing ( whether it be lawful or not ) : this had been like a christian teacher . now i answer , 1. to his first proposition : 1. worship which is neither instituted particularly , nor in the general , appointing man how to choose it , is unlawful , 2. and to invent worship without god's allowance , contrary , or of the same kind , as if he had not done his part , is unlawful . 3. but for man to choose and use such worship as is but the right ordering of god's institutions , is commanded by him , and a duty ; and therefore not unlawful . 2. as to his minor , or second proposition , i answer , kneeling at the sacrament , and communicating with parish churches that have tollerable ministers , are not instituted of god in particular , but the genus of them is instituted , and we commanded to choose our selves , according to god's general rules , to the best of our understanding : and so they are our duty , and not unlawful . i give the instances of these two sorts of worship : first , god hath instituted , that our minds worship him , in believing , and receiving all his gospel revelations , and trusting them ; and in desiring all things petitioned in the lords prayer , and in consenting to all commanded in the scriptures ; and in dedicating our selves to him cordially in baptism , and renewing it in the lords supper , in commemoration of christ's death , till he comes . he hath instituted the corporal expresions of all these ; that we confess christ in all the necessary articles of faith ; that we ask the petitions of the lords prayer ; that we perform the commands of the decalogue towards god , and all others in the scripture . these are the instituted worship which none must alter . secondly , the manner and ordering which is the second sort ( which i leave every one to call worship , or not , when they have defined worship ) which man may , and must chuse himself , without any particular institution of god , contain such acts as these . 1. undetermined gestures of reverence and honour in time of publick worship . as to be uncovered , or put off the hat at prayer , or the lord's supper . this we do directly in honour and reverence to god , whom we there worship ; and therefore it is it self a subordinate act of worship . so to stand , or kneel at prayer , and not to sit . though in scripture we read of sitting , standing , kneeling , and prostration : yet no one of these is made necessary by institution : yet are they subordinate acts of worship , expressing our inward worship of god : and the reason why being uncovered , or kneeling , are now chosen , is not a particular institution , but because the custom of the country hath made them the most congruous expression of our inward worship : when as paul tells us , that then and there it was a sharne for a man to be covered : and the whole church for many hundred years forbad all kneeling , in adoration , on the lord's days . and more , to these i add , the gesture of the adult in baptism , whether they shall be baptized kneeling , to signifie humble reception , or not , is left to choice . so is the gesture in singing psalms : if any think , that speaking to god by prayer , praise , or thanksgiving in psalms , should in honour to god be done standing , or kneeling , rather than sitting , it is no addition to god's institution . and that we commonly use sitting in psalmody , and not when we pray in prose , is meerly because custom maketh one more offensive than the other . the same i say of the gesture of preaching , which some do sitting with their hats on , and others stand to avoid a seeming dishonour of gods name and service . also , some holy nonconformists i have known , that would rarely name god but with their hats put off , or bowing their heads ; or with hands and eyes lift up towards heaven . ( old mr. atkins at tipton near dudley , did thus use to shew such reverence , when he named god , that would strike reverence into those that saw and heard him : and hath oft affected me more than a sermon . ) this was external worship , not instituted in the particulars , but in general of reverence to god. 2. another instance is in vows to god , which are acts of worship : but for the matter of them , several things may be vowed which are not particularly commanded , but onely in the general . and for the form or words , i do not think that mr. raphson can shew me all that vow called the covenant , in any particular institution ; and yet i conjecture , that he taketh it not to be idolatry , nor unlawful . 3. another instance is , in things devoted and offered to god the scripture in general saith , honour god with thy substance , and with the first fruits of thy increase . and that christians at first sold all , and laid at the apostles feet ; which yet peter tells ananias he might have chosen not to do . and for many hundred years after , they brought their weekly donations for the ministers , sacraments , and poor , to the altar , and offer'd it first to god : and so paul would have the corinthians give their collections as to god , for the saints . but no institution told them how much they should give , but the general rule . 4. another instance is , the length or degree of outward worship : if i pray two hours rather than one , it is an act of honour , or worship , not particularly commanded . so whether men shall in publick read one chapter , or two ; sing one psalm or two , or more , is undetermined by god 5. another is about set days and hours for worship ; as to keep a yearly thanksgiving for deliverance from the powder plot ; the spanish invasion ; for the reformation , &c. so also fasts , and what days lectures shall be kept , and what hour : and what day and hour the lord's supper shall be administred ; which are circumstantial acts of worship . 6. another instance is in the choice of psalms and hymns : the use of davids are lawful , and so are others : but no institution tyeth us to one , but leaveth us to chuse . 7. another instance is in the tunes and metre of psalms , which we use as subordinate acts of worship . it is but lately that the churches used metre and melody of tune ; but prose read with a loud voice : yet i hope we are not idolaters for our metre and melody : which i may say also of church musick , which david used , and we may do , where it 's edifying ; but it 's no institution now . yea , when paul directs the church to use psalms , hymns , and spiritual songs ; which is for singing with grace in our hearts to the lord , and therefore it is worship , which some men must indite and make . 8. another instance is , in the versions of the psalms of david ; where among many we may chuse which seems best . 9. another instance is , in the publick and private reading of the scriptures translated : where every word is the work of man : god wrote it not in english , but in hebrew and greek ; but man translates it , some well , and some defectively ; yet i hope , an english bible is not an idol . 10. so also the dividing the scriptures into chapters , and verses , which are the works of man , is no idolatry . 11. and another instance is , the method and words of sermons and prayers : whether a minister shall preach by way of doctrine , reason , and use ; or otherwise : and expound by way of paraphrase , or otherwise ; what words he shall use , god hath not instituted in particular ; but mens invention maketh these , some suddenly , and some beforehand . 12. another instance is , the use of helps , or written words ; whether one shall use notes in preaching , and read them , or not ? whether the words of a prayer shall be written , and read , or not ; god hath not determined . and so books of catechism , publick confessions : prayers , meditations as formed ; are all the works of man , and no idolatry . and if parents impose words of prayer on their children , it is no sin ; as deut. 6. and 11 shew . 13. another instance is in the form of ordination , when the words and many circumstances are undetermined . imposition of hands is a iawfu1 sign : and so is doing it by a writing , or by meer words , without that imposition ; some receive it kneeling , some standings ; some by one form of words , some by another , &c. some from one ordainer some from many , &c. and none of these determined by institution . 14. the same is true of discipline ; the form of words for admonition , for absolution , for excommunication , for the penitents confession and request , are left to humane wisdom , so the matter and manner be regulated by the general law. and they that say , that god hath instituted , that the church shall be governed necessarily by fixed classes , with appeals to national synods , and that here a major vote hath governing power over the lesser part ; yea , and that these must be made up of two sorts of elders , of which one sort are un-ordained , or are not authorised to administer the word and sacraments , do but add to the word of god , if they say these national assemblies are the supreame church-power ; what law of god did ever institute , that a minister , or classis , e.g. in geneva , breme , scotland , is not as much subject to the decrees of a larger council of many nations ; and that the synod at dort had not as much power as a lesser at hague : or a synod of many nations as much as one in scotland ? but if ( as by parity of reason they must ) they say , that general or large councils are the governours of national assemblies , as they are of classis and presbyteries : then they bring us under a foreign jurisdiction , which the kingdom is sworn against ; and i think they are papists , but of the french sort , who make general councils superior governours of the universal church . and if they determine the bounds of church-power , by the magistrates laws , and yet damn erastians , they seem in ignorance to deal too hardly with themselves . 15. another instance is , in the place of publick worship : god hath not determined where the assembly shall meet : where the pulpit , font , table , &c. shall stand . and if great and lofty structures , called temples , be built , purely to shew how we honour god , and religion : as constantine , and others after him , did at constantineple , alexandria , jerusalem , over the grave of christ , and all over the empire : this actual expression of honour to god , is cultus modalis & secundarius , a subservient sort of worship , and no idolatry , but lawful . 16. the same i say of church utensils : if for the honour of god and religion , the pulpits , and tables have ornaments of silk , cups , and trenchers , and flaggons of silver ; the font and seats have some special neatness , &c. this is left to man's determination , without any particular institution , and is no idolatry . 17. and if as judges and lawyers have distinguishing habits , the ministers have so , ( officiating , and at other times ) to no worse end ( or manner ) than the said utensils are put ; i know no institution that is crost by it , nor that forbids it . 18. another instance may be of speaking in the assembly , whether it shall be one minister , or two , or three . whether lay-men may not be interlocutors by questions , yea , and sometime preach and pray , &c. god hath not particularly determined , but left to human choice . 19. many good christians knowing the lord's day to be an instituted day of thanksgiving for the greatest mercies , do as an act of honour wear their best cloathes , and feast themselves and the poor accordingly that day : this is lawful , by the general law ; but not particularly instituted by god. 20. professing signs in our covenantings with god , and confessing of our religion , are left to be chosen onely by the general laws of edification , and order . when a nation , or church , or person renew their covenant with god , and their confession of faith , it may be done ( when the ruler demandeth their consent ) either by word or by subscribing , or by lifting up the hand , or by standing up , or by bowing the head ; for these are all , or most found in scripture instances ; yea , sometimes they fell by prostration to the ground : yea , and so they oft did in receiving a charge or message from god , by his ministers . i will add no more instances ; these are enough . if yet it be said , that none of these be acts of worship : i again answer , 1. then do not by slander call them so , and say still , that man's inventing or using these , is using false worship , if they be no worship , they are no false worship . confess then , that it 's but a bare name that you charged with idolatry : for its onely such things as these that we would add . 2. but de nomine , if an action done directly to honour god be to be called worship ; some of these at least may be called secondary subordinate worship : but if you appropriate the name to gods stated ordinances , these must not be called worship ; but the manner , order , circumstances , or accidents of worship . but call them what you will , they are but what god alloweth , and the general of them he commandeth . i need not say much to his applicatory words . 1. to return from separation , to love and union , is as fitly called , a returning to their vomit , as returning from drunkenness and fornication , to sobriety and chastity may be so called . repentance is casting up our sin. 2. the names of bowing to baal , dan and bethel , babylon , idols , &c. are as easily used by quakers , ranters , familists , &c. against all god's church and worship : and they were worn so thread-bare by the railing separatists ( then called brownists ) , against the old learned godly nonconformists , that they turned to the speakers reproach . and i suppose he knoweth that the scots were called as bad , and worse , by the army that conquered them in 1650 , &c. 3. that sitting or drinking with the superstitious in arts of religicus adoration , is a sign of defection . this would make all backsliders who so sit and drink with him , and such as he , who is so superstitious , as to turn sin into duty , and duty into sin , and falsly father laws on god : yea , that is worse than superstitious , as is after manifested . 2. superstition is an offering somewhat as pleasing to god , which is not pleasing to him . all christians havesome degree of this in matter or manner ; for we know but in part , and prophesie in part , &c. and so no christians must joyn with others . but must they not give over all religious duty themselves , seeing their own defects more defile them than other mens ? 3. christ doth not disown all imperfect worship that hath some superstition : and we must receive one another as christ receiveth us . 4. it was superstitious persons that paul commandeth christians to receive to communion , rom. 14. 5. thus he condemneth the apostles , and the churches then , and the scripture it self . 6. it is dreadful revolting to choose rather forbearance of all church communion , than to communicate with our parish churches , when better cannot be had , and men are not forced to any sin themselves . and he that will communicate with none that sin in preaching , prayer , sacraments , shall communicate with none 7. it is a gross service of satan and popery , to fight against love and unity , and bring all the publick assemblies under disgrace , as unlawful , that popery may take possession unresisted . 4. his words of [ silly sheep bleating after any shepherd , &c. ] are but a net to catch silly souls . it 's the common trap of the papists , to put ignorant people to prove the calling of the ministers , or forsake them . they that preach the gospel , and do the office ( tho faultily ) , and are in possession , have a calling sufficient to justifie the. hearers , when it may not be enough to justifie themselves : a better call than the high priests that christ did send men to . 5. as to the argument of scandal ; it is of dreadful weight to deter a tender consience ( as from conforming to sin , so ) from his groundless separation , and war against unity and love. 6. that god saith such means shall not profit ; yea , curseth it , is a slander against god and scripture , and all the church on earth that 's known ; by perverting and misapplying the text. i shall now better prove the lawfulness of using such things as these , than he hath proved it unlawful . 1. that which no low of god , or valid law of man , forbids , is not unlawful : but the use of the things forementioned , no law of god , or valid law of man forbids : therefore the use of the things forementioned , is not unlawful . he that will say that there is any such law , must shew that law , and prove his affirmative : but let him take heed of adding to god's law : a false prophet that fathered a false message from god , was an heinous sinner . is it not worse falsly to father a law on him ? perhaps they will say , that god forbids , adding or diminishing : i answer , he doth so : therefore let them take heed of it , who say his law forbids that which it never forbad , but in general commandeth . if we must not add to the laws of the land , yet the bookbinder that covereth them , and the lawyers and judges that expound them , do not add thereby to the law. when the hearers bowed , and prostrated themselves in reverence to god , they did not by this add to the law ; nor yet when they made a vow uncommanded , or a free-will-offering : and i think it was no sinful addition to the law , for the publican to smite his breast , and look downward ; and when jeremy said , no man smiteth on his thigh , and saith , what evil have i done ? the meaning is not , no man idolatrously giveth god false worship . and i think , that they that rent their clothes to express their repentance , did not add to god's word , nor yet do it as necessary worship , tho joel says , rent your hearts , and not your garments . some object , that christ's sitting at the sacramental supper , is a law to us , forbidding any other gesture . but this author professeth , that all the actions of christ , or his apostles , are not laws binding us to do the like : if they be , we break many such laws ; as when we do not eat a full meal before the sacrament , when we do it not without women , only to a family , or to twelve , only to teachers , in an upper reom , in an inn , or private house , and that we do not lie along , leaning , as they did ; especially when we take it not at supper-time , and turn the lord's supper to a breakfast or dinner . the apostles brake no law when they differed from any of these , which were but occasional circumstances . it 's said by some , that christ's example binds us to a table-gesture : but 1. that may be convenient , and yet not necessary : the bare example binds us not to it . 2. if it did , that were but like the general law ; let all be done to edification , and in order ; and binds to no one sort of gesture at all : for then when they eat standing , it would bind us to stand ; and if they eat kneeling ( as labourers oft do at harvest-work in the fields ) , it would bind us to kneel ; if they eat lying , as the jews did , it would bind us to that : and so this would but tie us to the custom of the countrey . but in feasting with god , we may sometimes do it more lowly than in a common table-gesture , and break no law. when mary was , it 's like , on her knees , washing christ's feet with her tears , if he had offered her bread or wine , it 's like it had been no idolatry so to take it . but the grand objection is , that we worship bread and wine ; which can be no better than a slander , when the very liturgy and doctrine of the church , not only renounce transubstantiation , but the very real presence of christ's body , which yet many thousand protestants believe . object . but you kneel before the bread and wine , and make it a mediate object of adoration , contrary to the second commandment . answ . 1. we neither make any image , nor invent this medium , nor yet symbolize with idolaters , while we renounce the very object ( transubstantiate bread ) which they adore , and therefore break not the second commandment , no more than we do in kneeling in lawful prayer , because they kneel in praying before images , or to angels . 2. an object of worship is either a meer motive exciting object , or else a terminative mediate worshipped object . the first is more than lawful : for we should be moved and stirred up by the works of god , even by our meat and drink , by sun and moon , and all that we see , to worship god : and this is properly but the object of our thoughts , and the motive of our outward acts : and the sacrament is no more . but if we did direct our worship terminatively to the bread and wine , as a mediate object , by which it should pass to god , this were to break the second commandment , like image-worship . there are many instances in scripture , of people that have bowed to god before the prophet , moved by his word and presence , who yet break not the second commandment , nor idolized the words or prophets : so joshua fell down to the angel , josh . 4. we give thanks for the meat that stands before us on the table , as a motive-object ; and we may do it on our knees : is this an idolatrous worshipping of our meat ? i have many a time seen a miserable beggar , when one hath given him money or meat , fall down on his knees , and take it , saying , i thank god and you ; did this make the giver his idol ? how sad is the case of ignorant young christians , whose consciences must be racked or cheated by such sophistry , because their wits be not ripe enough to find out the deceit ? ii. another argument : that is not unlawful which god commandeth us in general to choose and do , and so alloweth in the particulars : but such are the twenty things before mentioned , &c. god commandeth us to do all things in love , and concord , and order , to edification . this must needs reach to the undetermined circumstances . we cannot worship god publickly at all , but it must be in some words , in some gestures , in some time , in some place ; nor profess our faith , and covenant-consent , but by some sign : and so of the rest . if you choose no one , when god hath tied us to none , but bid us choose to edification , we break his general law. if you can prove that we choose amiss , the fault will be , not that we choose , but that we choose not better . iii. that is not unlawful which christ and his apostles did before us without blame , and belongeth also unto us . but such is the use of such modes and circumstances of god's instituted worship , which are left variable , and free to occasional choice , &c. what christ did , i shall speak more anon . paul hath his [ not the lord , but i ] ; signifying , that the thing was not determined by a law , rom. 14. he judgeth circumstantial differences such as should not break communion , when yet they that kept days , or kept them not ; and they that did eat , or not eat , did it as to the lord. and did he bid them not judg each other for idolatry ? or say , rom. 14. 17 , 18. that idolaters were acceptable to god , or approved of men ? or rom ▪ 15. or bid them receive idolaters , as christ received us ? he regulateth their church-meetings , how many shall speak at a meeting , and by what course and order ; and that women shall be vailed , and not men ; and that they salute each other with an holy kiss , &c. not by a law that setleth the particulars , but by the general law of doing all in order , and to edification ; and pleadeth not institution , but the custom of the churches , which is alterable , as the signification of such acts are . and st. james will have the elders anoint the sick with oyl for recovery , which yet bindeth not us . the papists use this as an institution , as they do imposition of hands in confirmation : they say in ordination , receive the holy ghost , and breathe on the person : they wash the feet of one another in imitation of christ : and yet these men condemn them in this , as superstitious , for imitating christ and his apostles , and scripture-examples , and cry down popery , and at the same time call us idolaters , for going beyond scripture-institution . the same i say of their keeping lent , in imitation of christ's forty days fast , &c. is it idolatry both to follow , and not to follow scripture-examples ? to all the rest i add one instance more : swearing by appeal to god , is a most solemn act of worship : but the sign of taking an oath , is left free to convenient choice . abraham's servant did it by putting his hand under his thigh : was this a common law , or institution ? others did it otherwise : we do it by laying our hand on the book , and kissing it . these . are neither sinful additions , or idolatry . the memorial of god's works , and mens covenants , were kept , sometime by pitching stones , sometime by pillars , sometime by set days ( as the feast of purim , ) sometime by laying up the ensigns ( as goliah's sword , &c. ) and all these lawful , and no ido : latry . iv. lastly , i will unveil these mens doctrine of separation , and then judg whether it be the doctrine of christ , which is a law of love , and union , and peace ; or the wisdom from above , which is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , &c. 1. it is false , that all such secondary modal worship , is unlawful , which is not instituted by a fixing law. 2. it is deceit not to distinguish these different things . 3. the charge of [ false worship ] unexplained , is meer deceit : 1. worship is so far [ false ] , as it is contrary to the rule . every sermon , prayer or sacrament which we administer , hath faultiness and sin , and is so far [ false worship ] . 2. but worship offered god on pretence that he instituted it when he did not , or that man hath authority to command the like , is yet worse false worship . 3. and the worship of false gods or idols , is yet worse than that , and abhorred of god. 4. his making all faulty circumstances , such as he nameth , to be idolatry , because false , as he calls it , is yet more sinful , and of mischievous importance . 5. so is it to make the churches idols temples , where they do kneel at the sacrament , and use the liturgy . 6. so is it to feign falsly , that god calleth men to come out from such , and be separate , because he calleth them out of babylon ; falsly adding to the laws of god. 7. by his doctrine he maketh christ an idolater ( which imention with horror ) : for he 1. used circumstances riot instituted before , or by himself : he preached on a mountain , in a ship , &c. not commanded : he commended mary for anointing him , washing his feet with tears , wiping them with her hair , not instituted in particular : he commended the publican for smitinig on his breast , standing far off , not looking to heaven , without particular command : his custom was to go to the synagogue-worship : he from his childhood performed temple-duties and service : he commanded the lepers cleansed to go to the priests , and offer their due , and his disciples to hear the scribes and pharisees in moses chair , &c. and yet 1. the high priests were not of aaron's line , according to institution . 2. they bought the office of heathen romans . 3. they had it not for life , according to institution . 4. doctrine , worship , discipline and manners , were heinously corrupted , so that the hearers were to beware of the leaven of their doctrine , and not to imitate their lives . 4. they were bitter enemies of christ , and persecutors : yet christ never bid his disciples to separate from any thing but their errors ; but saith , they shall cast you out of the synagogues . and doubtless christ committed no sin ; nor can we be so holy as he . 8. he condemneth abraham , and all the jewish church of old , that used such things that were not instituted in worship , as is before mentioned in swearing , &c. 9. he maketh the apostles idolatrous that used the like . 10. he maketh the primitive churches idolatrous , and the scriptures to approve it . for they used such uninstituted things : yea , the romans were guilty of differences in god's service , and despising and judging each other for them ; the corinthians were carnal in making parties and divisions , they defrauded each other , and went to law before heathens . they had fornicators , judaizing envious slanderers of paul , heretical deniers of the resurrection ; such as eat in idols temples , or of their sacrifices : were drunk at , or before the sacrament . the galatians are yet sharplier charged : almost all the seven churches rom. 2. and 3. had nicholaitans , or jezabels doctrine , which god hated : and no christian is called to separate from the communion of any one of all these ; but commanded to amend , and live in unity , without divison . 11. he condemneth as idolaters all the churches on earth , for six hundred , if not one thousand years after the apostles ; not one church christian , or heretick ( as far as any history tells us that i have found ) did ever deny such things , as he calls false worship , or idolatry . they all ●ent further than our parish churches do . at baptism they used the white garment , tasting milk and honey , chrisme or anointing the forehead , crossing ; they adored onely standing , and not kneeling , every lords day , all as significant ceremonies : no one church or person is said to scruple these ; i think they did not well : but god rejected not their worship . 12. he maketh all , or near all the churches on earth , idolaters , at this day : all on earth , save the protestants are far grosser in their liturgies and ceremonies than the english : of the protesants , sweden , denmark , saxony , and all the lutherans , have liturgies , crossing , ceremonies , church-images , consubstantiation . the helvetians are such as are called erastians , making the magistrate , the onely ruler , and sacraments common . geneva , and france , yea and helland , have their liturgies and some rites . 13. he condemneth presbyterians , independents , anabaptists , and all dissenters that are here called protestants . for they have al1 many of the foresaid uninstituted things : they put off the hat in church at prayer . they stand up at the blessing ; they use uncommanded gestures at sacrament ; they use psalm-versions , metres , tunes scripture-translations , divisions into chapter and verse , never instituted particularly . the scots used a governement by classes , national assemblies of various elders , ruling by vote , instead of meer consulting for concord , uncommanded . 14. i humbly propose it to consideration , whether by consequence ( which he seeth not , nor owneth ) do not deny christ , and all the gospel , and work of mans redemption : i challenge him to name me one church on earth for many hundred years after the apostles , that had not that which he calls false worship and idolatry : suppose this were but in a few ages , as the second , third , or fourth century : then a temple of idols , and company of idolaters , is no true church : and if at any time there was no church there was no head of the church : no kingdom , no king : no wife , no husband , that is no christ . how much more , if he make all , or near all the church idolaters to this day , and himself with the rest ? 15. if it be a heinious sin to bear false witness against a neighbour , or to slander one man , what is it to slander and back-bite all the church on earth , and christ himself ? 16. is it not a work of satan to destroy love , and to render almost all christians odious ? and doth not he do so , that calleth them idolaters ? is not this preaching men , into the hatred of each other ? do we owe no love to any christians , but such as is due to idolaters ? is not the fruit of the spirit otherwise described ? 17. doth he not deny that communion of the saints , which is an article of the creed ? and tempt weak christians into sinful separations , divisions , slanders , judgings , murmurings , envies , which are the fruits of the flesh ? 18. doth not this directly destroy the church by dissolution ? when there is none to be owned or joyned with , that hath not somewhat which he calleth false worship . and is not separating the materials , destroying the house ? 19. doth he not directly rush into the sin which , he condemneth adding to god's laws , and saying he forbids what he forbids not ? yea , fathering on him laws more rigorous than the jewish , as disowning christ's church as idolators and false worshippers ? 20. i add , such wofully harden men in that which they themselves suffer by , and which they call enmity and persecution , and make more conformists while they deny it , than r. b. whom he frivolously talketh of , ever did ( except it be a conformity to truth and goodness . ) for when men read and hear others confidently rage against truth and duty , by rash presumptuous ignorance , they judge of all our dissent by this : and while many run into this guilt , it seems to justify their afflicters : and it tempteth weak persons to suffer for sinful separation as evil doers , thinking it is for truth . oh with what grief will understanding men see christians together , as in a state of enmity by mistakes . to see some at once require from others , things good and necessary , things lawful but unnecessary ; things necessary in their genus , but not this more than that , and some things sinful , as if they were all almost alike . to see those whose senses are not exercised to discern things that differ , misled by the words and reverence of men , to swallow some sins as excellent duties , and fly from things lawful ; yea , oft from great duties , as odious sins , and suffer rejoyeingly for sinning against god , and condemning all that sin not as they do ; yea , even all , or almost all the churches on earth ; yea , and calling them idolaters for being wiser and better than they , who alas , do in all things shew themselves to be ignorant babes , and who speak evil of that which they understand not and then to see others revile , and hate , and ruin these mistaking christians by a far more dangerous mistake ; as if religious fear of sin , were an unsufferable thing , and such were intollerable hypocrites , and conscience were a disgraceful thing ; and as if themselves and all mankind were not liable to worser errors , than to take some lawful things for sin , when they see unlawful things stand near them , or among them . but of all this , i have oft spoken , and now only say again , that if those justly called separatists , and who think parish communion under honest ministers to be idolatry , or unlawful , will but without prejudice read what is written to prove it lawful by the old godly , judicious non-conformisits , especially ball 's trial of separation , mr. hildersham mr. bradshaw , dr. ames , mr. cartwright , mr. gifford , mr. john paget , mr. brightman , mr. rathband , &c. they will need no more to save them from this scandalous schism : but if peter withdraw or separate from the gentiles for fear of offending the jewish christians , and barnabas be led away with the dissimulation , paul must oppose it to their faces : and i that have seen what the spirit of division hath done , and read that god never blest unnecessary separation , will imitate paul. and if this world be uncurable , the lord prepare me for that world where love and unity have no enemies . finis . of schisme a defence of the church of england against the exceptions of the romanists / by h. hammond ... hammond, henry, 1605-1660. 1653 approx. 285 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 97 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a45426 wing h562a estc r40938 19537241 ocm 19537241 109048 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a45426) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 109048) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1689:5) of schisme a defence of the church of england against the exceptions of the romanists / by h. hammond ... hammond, henry, 1605-1660. [2], 183 , [6] p. printed by j. flesher for richard royston ..., london : m.dc.liii [1653] errata: p. 183. advertisement: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -apologetic works. catholic church -controversial literature. schism. 2005-12 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-05 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-03 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2007-03 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion of schisme . a defence of the church of england , against the exceptions of the romanists . by h. hammond , d. d. london , printed by j. flesher for richard royston at the angel in ivie-lane . m. dc.liii· of schisme . a defence of the church of england , against the objections of the romanist . chap. i. an introduction , the danger , and sin of schisme . § . 1 two wishes rather then hopes there are , wherein all christians are very much concerned ; first , that all that have given up their names to that holy profession , would sincerely betake themselves to the discharge of all those duties ( as well more common , one towards another , as more particular , of each single man toward god and toward himself ) which christ came on purpose to plant in , or reduce into the world : the second , that the faith of christ might gain an amicable , universal reception in the hearts of all men over the whole world , and that all mankinde ( by an uniform obedience to those divine precepts which are most agreeable to our rational , i. e. humane nature , and which are able to advance us to the highest pitch of moral excellency and dignity , that any created substance is capable of ) might attain the great end of our creation , a paradise , or blisful beeing here in this world , only with the mixture of some allayes to that blisse ( and those necessary both to the exercise of some most eminent virtues , and such as the angels are not , for want of passible bodies , capable of , and also to the inhaunsing of our crown ) and then a state of infinite reward , and uncompounded felicity hereafter . § . 2. that the later of these may in gods good time be effectually attempted by all christian kings , and bishops , and advance more successfully , then of late it hath done , ought to be the indevour of all those , whose eminencie in the world hath given them capacities , or qualifications to contribute some considerable degree of assistance to so glorious a work . and for others , whose inferiority of condition or sphere of motion , and the improbability , consequent to that , of advancing so magnificent a designe is their just excuse for not entertaining any such hopeless thoughts , it is yet their certain duty by constant , fervent prayers to solicite the good hand of god , who alone can accomplish so divine a work , and by the diligent strict observance of all christs precepts to exemplifie to all others the power , and real energie of the faith of christ , where it is admitted into the heart , thereby to attract all others to the imbracing of that , which hath such admirable virtues in it . § . 3. as for the former , that is ( in proportion to his condition ) the known duty of every single christian , much more of every congregation , and community of such ; who are therefore associated into one body , that each supplying the defects , and infirmities of others , they may by so advantagious an instrument , as union of forces is , be enabled to doe what without it they are justly supposeable to want means , or strength to doe , and so are deprived of all excuse , if they be found culpable . § . 4. in this kinde 1. the duty of charity , and peace to all : 2. of ready , and filial obedience of those under authority to their lawful authorized superiours : and 3. of charitative paternal exercise of their power , in all those that are invested with it by christ , may be justly looked on as virtues of the first magnitude , which have the most lively characters , and impresses of the law-giver , christ's image , and superscription upon them , & accordingly deserve the first fruits of our care and diligence that they be most diligently conserved , where they are , and industriously reduced , where by the malignity , or infelicity of the times , they are torn , or escaped from us . § . 5. for that malices , and rancors , and animosities among single christians , but especially seditious , mutinous spirits , that divisions , and schismes , and ruptures , and preparative thereto , causless anathematizing , and tyrannizing over the faith of christ's flock , are most scandalously contrary to christ's platform , to the prophecie of the plough-shares , and the pruning-hooks , the happy exchange for the sanguinary , hostile instruments , is a truth so eminently , and signally visible in the practise , and doctrine of christ , and his apostles , that it cannot be doubted , or questioned on either side . and agreeably , there is no one vice , which hath fallen under so much of the displeasure , and correption , and severest discipline of the holy fathers of the antient church , as this of schisme , and the ingredients , and preparatives to it have done . § . 6. it is but a small part of the character thereof , that from s. paul , and s. jude they tell us , that it is a special piece of (a) carnality ; an (b) excommunicating and condemning , i. e. voluntary inflicting of that punishment on ones self , which the governours of the church use to inflict on the most scandalous sinners ; that (a) they that so divide on their own presumption , may not at their own will return to the church , and communicate again with the bishop , and his christian people ; that (b) it is contrary to the faith , (c) even when it hath not , in respect of doctrinal points , any heresie joyned with it ; (d) contrary to charity , yea to all the (e) advantages that belong to a member of the church , the (f) benefits of prayers and sacraments ; that it is (g) as bad as heresie ; that (h) there was never any heresie in the church , which was not founded in it ; and (i) that it is constantly forced , in its own defence , to conclude in some heresie or other ( all of which being put together will be sufficient to keep men from being in love with the guilt , or company of schismaticks ) but it is farther branded with these superadditions of terror , that (k) there is scarce any crime so grear as schism , not (l) idolatry , (m) sacrilege , parricide ; that it hath been under peculiar marks of gods indignation , in the story of the jewish church , as in the (n) case of the ten tribes , and of the (o) samaritanes , who are ranked with the gentiles , mat. 10.5 . (p) and so in the story of core , &c. that it is the (q) antichristianisme mentioned by saint john , the (r) worshipping or serving the devil , and , in a word , so great a crime , that it is not (ſ) expiable by martyrdome to him that continues in , and hath not repented , and returned from it . § . 7. much more of this subject is every where to be met with in the antient monuments , and nothing of alleviation to be had for any , who have not the (t) excuse of involuntary seduction , of error , or simplicity to plead for them , and the surest way to doe that effectually , to qualifie them for that plea , is to forsake their course , to get out of so dangerous a snare . § . 8. nay 't is farther observable , how unsafe it hath been deemed by these , for (u) light , and inconsiderable causes to break this unity , it being in their opinion very (x) hard , if not impossible to receive such an injury , or provocation from the governours of the church , as may make a rupture , or separation excusable . and for the vniversal , or truly catholick church of christ , it is not , in (y) s. augustine's opinion , possible that there should be any just cause for any to separate from it , nor consequently apologie to be made for those , that on any , whether true , or pretended cause whatsoever , have really incurred this guilt . § . 9. from these premises thus acknowledged and undeniable , the conclusion follows irrefragably , that it is not the examination of the occasion , or cause , or motive of any mans schisme , that is worth the producing or heeding in this matter ; the one thing that is of force , and moment , and , by consequence , pertinent to be inquired into , is the truth of the matter of fact , whether this charge be sufficiently proved or confessed , i. e. whether he that is thus accused , stands really guilty of separation from the church of christ ; and this will be a means of shortening our method , and giving very moderate bounds to our ensuing discourse , which will now be regularly finished by making these two inquiries . § . 10. 1. what schisme is , and how it may be most fitly branched . § . 11. 2. what evidences are producible against the church of england , whereby it may be thought liable to this guilt , and withall how it may be cleared from all force of those evidences . § . 11. which when we have done , we shall not from the office of advocates proceed to that of the accuser , or judge , but leave all others , that are under the same charge , to their proper tribunal , to stand or fall , as they shall appear able , or not able , upon firm grounds , to maintain , and vindicate their innocence . chap. ii. what schisme is , together with some general considerations thereon . § . 1. our first enquirie must be what schism is , in the strict & proper notion ( as (a) distinguished from heresie , the (b) introducing of some false doctrine into the church . ) and herein there will be no difficulty the origination , and universal use of the word , according and consenting exactly , to give us the importance of it . § . 2. in the origination of it from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , scindi , it signifies literally scissure , or division , which being a figurative , and withall a relative word , referring to some body , which is thus cut or divided , but that no natural , but political body , the church , or congregation of christians , the literal notation of the word in the ecclesiastical use , will be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a division in or from the vnity of the church of christ . only the form & termination of the word must be farther noted , which being not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the active 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the passive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the use of such passives is observable , being of the nature ( and for want of conjugations , designed to supply the place ) of the hebrew hithpa●l , and so noting reciprocal action or passion , where the passion is from , and on himself , and is most fully expressed by the latine neutrals , which partake both of active and passive , but are strictly neither of them . this might be largely exemplified in the use of other words , but the advantage of the observation will not be proportionable to the length of such a diversion , being no more then this , that the distinct notion of the word [ schisme ] is a voluntary dividing , or , in the neutral expression , which the fathers familiarly use , a separating , or receding of any member from the unity of the body , i. e. the church of christ , and so that the scismatick is he that * divides himself from the church of god , not that is cut off , or separated , he that (a) goes out , or (b) withdraws , or recedes of his own accord , not he that is cast out by the governours of the church . for whatever blame , and vengeance may justly light on such , who are by the righteous , and charitative censures of the church , cut off from communion , in case they doe not by humiliation , confession , and reformation , and meet fruits of repentance , prepare and qualifie themselves for readmission to that communion , yet certainly this punishment of excommunication is very disparate and distant from the crime of schisme , the judge , i. e. bishop or governour of the church , being the only actor in the one , ( and that ex officio , an act of duty in him , when duly executed ) but in the other , the offender , or guilty person , who is therefore said to (c) accuse , to cast , to (d) condemn himself , throwing himselfe , by his voluntary recession from the church , into that very condition , into which the adulterer , and obstinate offender is cast by the censures of it . § . 3. this is so evident a truth , that this punishment , and so judicial act , of the governour , cannot be the guilt of him that is punished , and though it be supposed to be founded in some offence , is not yet in any propriety of speech the offence it self , much lesse the sin of schisme , especially when he is punished for heresie , or some other crime , and not for schisme , that i need not farther insist on it . only , as beside the formal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there is also an interpretative excōmunication , when he that is not under the censures of the church , is yet refused admission , or reception unto it , unlesse he will submit to such & such conditions , indispensably proposed to him , and because both in the one , and the other , in the formal , and in the interpretative excommunication , the governours , being men , may possibly erre , and consequently censure , and excommunicate the innocent , and in like manner propose those conditions of communion which are not lawful for that man to submit unto , so it is possible in both cases , that the person excluded may be absolutely innocent , free not only from that of schisme , but from all other guilt , so that he which is excommunicated may not be obliged to regain the peace , nor he that is barred out , to force his passage into the communion of the church , and so both sorts of these , continuing out of the actual communion , neither the one nor the other be guilty of schisme in the least degree by so continuing . § . 4. he that is excommunicated unjustly , cannot be rendred criminous by that misfortune , nor concluded culpable by that argument , upon which he is supposed innocent . our saviour hath pronounced of the anathemaes of the jews , of their bitterest execrations , their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their sharpest censures , nay the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , casting men out of the synagogue , falsly or unjustly , that it is to be looked on as a most auspicious token , a matter of the greatest rejoicing to them which fell under it , one of the principal ingredients in , and forerunners of their blisse ( and accordingly the apostles when they were thus cast out , and contumeliously used , went out of the temple rejoicing that they were thought worthy to suffer shame for christ's name ) to which purpose is that of photius patriarch of constantinople to michael metropolitan of mitylene , ep : 116. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. the excommunication of the jewish sanhedrim sent out against christ's disciples brought them so much neerer to their lord and master , and alien'd the jews themselves , removed them so much farther from the kingdome of heaven , and so doth all unjust excommunication now unite us to the apostles by this conformity with and participation of their sufferings . and i suppose the arguments , and testimonies produced by the chancellour of paris are ( and , when they were first published , were so deemed by those of the romish communion ) unanswerable to this matter ; and accordingly that of thomas de curselis in the councel of basil , that it was * said by christ to the pope , whatsoever thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound , not whatsoever thou shalt affirm to be bound , ] hath with it the evidence of undeniable truth , equally applicable to him and all bishops in that and in all future ages . § . 5. and then certainly what hath thus been said of the formal , will with the same evidence be extended also to the interpretative excommunication , whensoever the conditions of the communion contain in them any sinne , and so become as the former censures were supposed to be ; for in that case certainly it is no act of schisme from any church , for any member to be , or to continue thus excluded from it . for how desireable , and valuable soever an intire , inviolate peace with all christians , with all men , ( together with the approbation of our willing , cheerful obedience , and submission of our judgments and practises , to our superiors ) must forever be deemed by all true disciples of christ , yet must not the purchase of this treasure be attempted by the admission of any sin , any more then the glory of god might be projected by the apostle's lie . the least transgression of god's law must not be adventured on upon any the most christian designe , or consideration ; the peaceable living with all men , which is so often exhorted to ▪ and inculcated , is yet no farther recommended , then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if it be possible , and as much as in us lies , and that , we know , must be interpreted of a moral and leg●● possibility , by which we are pronounced able to doe that ( and no more ) which we can doe lawfully , and so when the apostle 1 thess 4.11 . exhorts to the most earnest pursuit of this blisful state ( this ease , and rest , and quiet from the labours , and toils and hell of the factious , turbulent spirit ) it is in a style , which supposes this reserve , we must , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , have an ambition , and emulation , and contention to live peaceably , and quietly , obliging us to use all means that would be allowed to the ambitious person in his warmest pursuit , i. e. the utmost lawful , but not the lowest unlawful means . § . 6. in which matter it is remarkable what course hath been taken by the late author of infidelity unmasked , in his discourse of the schisme of protestants , where having acknowledged how perfectly unlawful it is to dissemble , equivocate , or lie in the matters of faith — and withall urgeing from all antiquity , that to forsake the external communion of god's visible church is the sin of schisme , he makes a shift to conclude ( as a natural consequence ) from hence , that therefore the church ( i suppose he means , of rome ) is infallible , and not subject to errour , because otherwise men might forsake her communion — where though the consequence be very strange , that we may forsake the churches communion , in case she be fallible or subject to errour ( for this supposes it lawful 1. to forsake the communion of any erroneous church , which is much more then we would desire to be granted us , and 2. to forsake all that are fallible , though they be not actually in errour , which is in effect to forsake the communion of all but saints , and angels , and god in heaven , for they only have the privilege of impeccable and infallible ) yet it absolutely acknowledges that it would be lawful to separate from , and forsake the ( even vniversal ) church of christ , in case , or on supposition that we could not be permitted to communicate with it , without lying , and dissembling , and equivocating in matters of faith , which he there acknowledgeth to be the denying god on earth . § . 7. now ( to return to our present consideration ) of this there is no question , but that , as it is said to be customary among the kings of the hunnes ( as soon as they have any children , and so no need of their brethrens assistance ) to banish all their brethren out of their dominions , and not to admit them again without putting out their eyes , ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith cinnamus , hist : l. 1. ) so it is possible ( i wish it were not justly supposable ) for a particular church so to fence , and limit , to guard , and restrain their communion , to require such severe conditions of all whom they will admit , or tolerate within their church , that some men cannot without putting out their eyes , or wilful acknowledgment of untruths , others without committing sin against conscience , undergoe the conditions thus required , nor consequently be admitted to communion with it . as in case any unsound or untrue position be entred into the confession , or catechisme of any church , and all the members of that communion be explicitly required to believe , and acknowledge the truth of every branch of that confession , and so that confession be really the condition , and accordingly in the reputation of men esteemed the tessera , or symbol of that communion , then he that shall enter this communion thus conditionated , must certainly either actually subscribe , or ( which , as to the scandal of the action , is equivalent ) be reasonably supposed to acknowledge that untruth ; and if in some persons blameless ignorance may be supposed sufficient for the excusing , or alleviating that fault , yet 1. he that hath means of discovering that untruth , and criminously neglects to make use of those means , and 2. he that hath discovered the truth , and yet thus professeth himself to believe the contrary , will not be thus excusable ; and it is not here sufficient to object the supposable levity of the error , or intellectual falsity , for how light , and inconsiderable ( and extrinsecal to the foundation ) soever the error be supposed to be , yet if there be obstinacy in continuing in it against light and conviction , or if there be falsness in professing , or subscribing , contrary to present perswasions , or scandal and ill example , temptation and snare to others , in seeming to doe so ; these certainly are sins , and neither light nor inconsiderable , nor reconcileable with that fabrick of christian practise , which ought to be superstructed on that foundation . § . 8. nay if the errors be really on the other side , if the doctrines so proposed , as the condition of the communion of any church , be indeed agreeable to truth , but yet be really apprehended by him , to whom they are thus proposed , to be false , and disagreeable , it will even in that case be hard to affirm that that man may lawfully thus subscribe , contrary to his present perswasions ; for though it be certain , that he that thus erres , be obliged to use all probable means to reform , and deposite his error , and , as long as he remains in it , is so farre guilty of sin , as he wants the excuse of invincible ignorance , and being obliged to charity and peace , as farre as it is possible , and in him lies , he cannot be freed from offending against that obligation , if he doe not communicate with those , the condition of whose communion contains nothing really erroneous , or sinful ; and so though such a man , on that side , be , or may be in several respects criminous , yet it is as evident on the other side , that he that professes to believe , what he really doth not believe , that subscribes with his hand , what he rejects in his heart , or that doth that which is under the scandal of doing so , is farre from being guiltless , he certainly offends against the precept of sincerity and veracity ( yea and of charity to his brethren , in respect of the scandal ) hath added hypocrisie to his error , and so which way soever he turns , he is sure to sin ( the worst and most unhappy kinde of straight ) he remains in error , and schisme on the one side , and by flying from that , he advances to lying and hypocrisie on the other , and the desire of avoiding one of these , cannot justifie the other . § . 9. this i say , in case the error be really on the mans , not on the churches side ; but if ( as in the case proposed ) the errors be supposed to be wholly on the churches side , and withall indispensably required to be subscribed by all , and so the conditions of that communion being exacted of him , who cannot without sin undertake them , be to him really , and unexcusably unlawful , then certainly to that man in that case it is no crime not to communicate ( when he is thus excluded from communicating ) with that church , but a crime , and a great one , thus ( by testifying against the truth and his own conscience ) to qualifie himself for that communion . the admission of such guilts as these , hypocrisie , and lying against conscience , and due grounds of conviction , is too high a price to be paid even for peace , or communion it self . § . 10. a meek son of the church of christ will certainly be content to sacrifice a great deal for the making of this purchase , and when the fundamentals of the faith , and superstructures of christian practise are not concerned in the concessions , he will cheerfully expresse his readiness to submit , or deposit his own judgment in reverence and deference to his superiours in the church where his lot is fallen . but when this proves unsufficient , when peace with the brethren on earth will not be had at a cheaper rate then this of a voluntary offending against our father which is in heaven ; in this case , the christian must be content to live without it , and though he would rejoice to sell all that he hath to purchase that jewel , yet his conscience , the health and peace of that ( which is interrupted by every wilful sin ) is a commodity , that must not be parted with , whatsoever the acquisition be , which is in his view and thus offers it self in exchange for it . § . 11. the evidence of which is , i conceive , so demonstrative and irresistible , that it will be justly extended much farther then the present case of the church of england gives me any temptation to extend it ; for in case our ancestors had unjustly and criminously made a separation from the church of rome ( which it shall anon appear that they have not ) and we their successors in that schisme should unfeignedly confess , and repent , and desire to reform that sin , and uprightly discharge our conscience in neglecting no means , that patience , humility , charity could suggest to us , in order to obtaining our reconciliation , yet if that cannot be obtained by all these submissions , without that harder condition of renouncing , or professing , or seeming ( in common reputation of men ) to renounce any part of divine truth , or christian practise , which we verily believe to be the truth , and our duty , it would not be our guilt , but only our unhappiness , that we were thus forced to continue in that separation . the reason is evident from the former grounds , we must not sin , that we may give glory to god ( such is confession , & fruits of repentance , jos . 7.19 . ) a penitent thief must not lie , to enable himself to make restitution , nor the contrite schismatick commit any new sin ( such certainly is hypocrisie , lying , professing contrary to present perswasion ) to complete his repentance for the old . § . 12. if this last be conceived ( as it is not the present case of the church of england , so ) to be an impossible , unsupposeable case , not only upon the romanists grounds , who i presume will not acknowledge any such hard condition ( as is the profession of an untruth ) to be required to any mans reconciliation , and readmission to their communion , but upon this other score , because if any false profession be now required to our re-admission , the same was formerly required to our continuance in their communion , and consequently our ancestors departure then could not be supposed ( as in this last fiction of case it is ) a schismatical departure . i shall not need to give any more distinct answer to this , then 1. that we that acknowledge not the church of rome to be infallible , may be allowed to make a supposition , which is founded in the possibility of her inserting some error in her confessions , and making the explicite acknowledgment of that the peremptory indispensable condition of her communion ; 2. that it is possible also ( though not by us pretended ) that she should since that supposed departure of our ancestors , introduce some new doctrines , and consequently some new errors , and those now be supposeable to lie in the way to our return , though they had no part ( before their birth ) in driving us from them ; 3. that that may be by the church of rome permitted , and allowed to those that have alwaies remained in their communion , which to them that have departed , and either in their persons , or posterity , desire to return to it , will not be permitted by them ; it being more ordinary to indulge liberties to sons , that have alwaies continued in the family , then to grant them to offenders , and suppliants , that expect favours , and graces , and restauration to privileges ; 4. that those which have had their education out of the communion of the church of rome , may very possibly & probably come to discern that , which in that communion would never have been ( for want of representation ) discerned by them , and consequently may observe some errors in her doctrine or practise , which their ancestors at their very departure from them had not discerned , and then though those errors subscribed to by them , had the lenitive , or antidote of blameless ignorance , yet because those that now really discern that truth , which the ancestors discerned not , cannot lawfully professe not to discern it , or professe against conscience to believe what they doe not believe , it is therefore necessarily consequent , that the return of such to the peace of the roman church may by this means be rendred impossible though their ancestors continuance there , lying under no such prejudice , their separation were acknowledged unlawful . chap. iii. the several sorts of schisme . § . 1. thus much hath been necessarily premised for the true notion of schisme , taken from the origination of the word , as that includes , in the neuter sense , a recession , or departure , in the reciprocal , a separating , or dividing himself . § . 2. it is now time to proceed and inquire how many sorts there are of this schisme in the ecclesiastical sense , or by how many waies the guilt of this sin of the flesh may be contracted . § . 3. in which inquiry it will be first necessary to consider , wherein ecclesiastical unity consists , viz : in the preserving all those relations , wherein each member of the whole church of christ is concerned one towards another : these relations are either of subordination ( paternal on one side , and filial on the other , ) or of equality ( fraternal . ) the unity of those members that are subordinate one to the other , consists in the constant due subjection , and obedience of all inferiors to all their lawful superiors , and in due exercise of authority in the superiors toward all committed to their charge : and the unity of the fellow brethren in the performance of all mutual duties of justice and charity toward one another . § . 4. of the former sort is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , obedience to the rulers of the church , heb. 13.17 . and back again the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , due feeding , i. e. governing the flock of god among them , 1 pet. 5.2 . and because there be ( under the king or emperor , or supreme power , to whom all are subject in any his dominions ) many possible links in that subordination , patriarchs , metropolitans , bishops , presbyters , deacons , and the brethren , or congregation , the unity must be made up of the due subordination , and christian i. e. charitative exercise of power in all these . § . 5. of the later sort there are as many branches , as there are varieties of equalities . the brethren or believers in every congregation , i. e. all beside the governors of the church ( however unequal in other respects ) are in this respect equalized , and comprehended all under the one title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the younger , 1 pet. 5.5 . and this whether we respect all other fellow-members of the same , or whether of any other congregation , whether parish , or city , or diocese , or province , or nation , of the west , of the east , of the whole christian world , as farre as each member is qualified to exercise any fraternal duty toward them . so again the several deacons , or presbyters of any diocese , the several bishops of any province , the several metropolitans of any nation , the several primates or patriarchs one with another ( as the several apostles ) over the whole world , are each of them to be looked on as equals to all others of the same sort ; and proportionably ( and together with the pastors ) the flocks , the several communities , or congregations of christian men considered in complexo , the parishes , dioceses , provinces , nations , climes of the whole christian world . and according to these so many equalities , there are , or ought to be so many sorts of unities , so many relations of that mutual fraternal charity , which christ came to plant in his church . § . 6. having seen what the unity is ( to which communion superadds no more but the relation of external association , whether by assembling for the worship of god in the same place , where the matter is capable of it , or whether by letters communicatory , by which we may maintain external communion with those which are most distant from us ) it will be easie to discern what schisme is , viz : the breach of that vnity ( and communion ) and what be the sorts or species of it ▪ either those that offend against the subordination which christ hath by himself , and his apostles setled in his church , or those that offend against the mutual charity , which he left among his disciples . § . 7. for the first of these , those that offend against the due subordination , they are possibly of as many sorts as there be distinct links in the subordination . as first those brethren or people , which reject the ministerie of the deacons , or presbyters in any thing wherein they are ordained , and appointed by the bishop , ( and as long as they continue in obedience to him ) and of their own accord break off , and separate from them , refuse to live regularly under them , they are by the antient church of christ adjudged and looked on as schismaticks ; so ignatius the holy bishop , ( and apostolical person ) and martyr of antioch , in ep : ad trall : admonishing them to beware of the poyson of seducers , i. e. the schismaticks of those times , he directs them this one way to doe it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this ye shall doe , saith he , if ye be not puffed up , and if ye be not separated from god , from christ , from the bishop — he that continues within the sept is pure , he that doth ought without the bishop and presbyterie and deacon , is not of a pure conscience , accounting all that live out of this obedience to be so far infected and defiled with schisme . so again in the former part of the same epistle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let all revere the deacons as the ministers of jesus christ , and in like manner the bishop as jesus christ the son of the father , the presbyters as the senate of god and college of apostles , without these it is not called a church . where every particular church being administred by these , no man is farther deemed a member of the church , then he lives regularly within this obedience : and the same is the importance of his exhortation to the philippians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , observe the bishop , and the presbyters , and the deacons , intimating this to be the only way of preserving unity against schisme , as appears by that which had gone before , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there is one altar ( or sept ) as there is one bishop together with his presbyters and deacons , and the living in union with , obedience to these , is the only way to doe , whatsoever ye doe , according to the will of god. where this subordination being looked on , as that which is placed in the church by god , it is both schisme and impiety not to continue regularly under it ; and so in the inscription of that epistle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he salutes them in the blood of christ , especially if they be at one with their bishop , and the presbyters with him , as also the deacons designed by the appointment of jesus christ , looking upon all as schismaticks , that were not so . thus again in his epistle to the ephesians , he admonisheth them to obey the bishop , and presbyters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with an undivided minde , making the disobedience an act of schism or division in any ; and so generally throughout all those epistles . § . 8. in like manner ; if we ascend to the next higher link , that of the bishop , to whom both presbyters and deacons , as well as the brethren , or people , are obliged to live in obedience , the withdrawing or denying this obedience in any of these will certainly fall under this guilt . so the same holy ignatius in ep : ad smyr : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , let no man without the bishop doe any of those things which belong to the church . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , wherever the bishop appears , there let the multitude be , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he that doth any thing without the privity of the bishop , serves the devil ; the title by which those foule gnostick hereticks and schismaticks ( the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the troublers and dividers of the church ) were signified . so in the processe of that epistle , having mentioned obedience to their bishop , as a necessary requisite to their sanctification , supposing the contrary to be an act of pollution , i. e. of the poyson of the schismaticks , and again admonishing them as of their duty ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) to concurre with the sentence of their bishop , he adds , that he that doth not so ( expressed by not being within the altar or sept ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , falls short of the bread of god , is an excommunicate person , being rendred such by this act of division from the bishop . so in the epistle to the magnesians , speaking of those that act without the bishop ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , these seem not to him to be men of a good conscience ( the phrase by which he oft expresses schismaticks , whose minde and conscience was defiled by the poyson of the gnosticks at that time ) because they assembled not according to that order and establishment which was setled in the church . and again , as christ did nothing without his father ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) being united to him , or all one with his father , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — so neither must ye doe any thing without the bishop , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but assemble together and have but one prayer common to you all , where the living out of this regular obedience to the bishop , is the contrary to union and communion , and so is formally schisme . and to the philadelphians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as many as are god's and christ's , are with the bishop , excluding them from the unity of christ's body who are thus separated from the bishop ; and in the same epistle speaking of the repentance of schismaticks , and hereticks , and god's pardon offered to such , the * condition of that pardon , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the syncerity of that repentance , is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if they return to the unity of god and senate of the bishop . so frequently in s. cyprian , the schisme especially of the five presbyters of faelicissimus his faction , ep : 40. appears to consist in their disobedience to , and breaking off from their † proper bishop , and causing others to doe so ; and de vnit : eccl : the schismatick is described to be filius impius qui contemptis episcopis & dei sacerdotibus derelictis constituere audet aliud altare , an impious son , which having contemned the bishops , and ( which is all one ) forsaken the priests of god , dares constitute another altar ; and ep : 76. qui schisma faciunt & relicto episcopo alium sibi foris pseudo-episcopum constituunt , the schismaticks are they that having left their bishop set up for themselves abroad another false bishop , and all their adherents are involved in the same guilt , qui se schismaticis contra praepositos & sacerdotes irreligiosâ temeritate miscuerunt , who joyn with the schismaticks against their bishops , and ep : 65. hi sunt conatus schismaticorum — ut sibi placeant , ut praepositum superbo tumore contemnant , these are the endevours of schismaticks , that they may please themselves , and proudly contemn their bishop , and ep : 69. vnum scire debes — si quis cum episcopo non sit , in ecclesiâ non esse , one thing you are to know that he that is not with the bishop , is not in the church , the church being there by him defined plebs sacerdoti adunata & pastori suo grex adhaerens , the people united to the bishop , and the flock to their pastor . § . 9. and as this disobedience may be of two sorts , either of a lower , or of a higher kinde , the denying obedience in any particular lawful command of the superior , or the casting off all obedience together , dethroning them , or setting up our selves either in their steads , or in opposition to them ( the first parallel to the contumacy of the levites , the sons of eliab , num. 16.12 , 14. which said , we will not come up , the second to their rebellion , levelling and equalling themselves to moses and aaron v. 3. ● and both together subjecting them first to that curse , of gods , not accepting their sacrifice , v. 15. and then to that sudden exemplary destruction , v. 31. ) so will the schisme be also a lighter , and a grosser separation , a defection from the bishop , and a rebellion against him , the former ordinarily called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 schisme , the latter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sedition , the latter adding very much to the guilt of the former , and uncapable of the alleviating excuses of ignorance or mistake ( in thinking the commands unlawful , and consequently the obedience ) which may be pretended in the former . § . 10. from this of bishops we may further ascend to the higher dignity , and authority of metropolitanes , over bishops themselves , which what it is , will be fit to be examined a while . § . 11. and the first rise may be taken from scripture it self , where the commission which is given to titus by s. paul , to ordain elders , tit. 1.5 . ( that is bishops v. 7. ) in every city of crete , demonstrates him to have had metropolitical authority bestowed on him ; so saith s. chrysostome ( on tit. 1. hom. 1. ) of titus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if he had not been an approved person , in whom the apostle had perfect confidence , he would never have committed a whole island to him , never have appointed him to perfect what he had left imperfect , never have intrusted to him the jurisdiction over so many bishops : and theodoret in arg. ep. ad tit. that titus was ordained by s. paul , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to ordain bishops under him for the governing of that whole province , being a very great one ; and eusebius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that titus had the inspection of all the churches in crete , of which that there was an hundred in number , and gortyna the metropolis of them all , appears by dionysius bishop of corinth about the year of christ 175. who inscribes an epistle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the church about gortyna , together with the rest of the dioceses in crete , of all which he mentions and commends philip their bishop , i. e. the metropolitan , under whom they all were , as appears by eusebius l. 4. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . § . 12. what hath been thus said of titus , is with the same evidence of the text affirmable of timothy , when being placed by s. paul at ephesus the chief metropolis of asia ; he had by that means the inspection of all the bishops there , and consequently is directed both for the ordaining ( 1 tim. 3.2 . ) and exercising jurisdiction over them c. 5.1.19 . and so saith s. chrysostome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . t is manifest that timothy was intrusted with more churches then one , even with a whole nation , that of asia , and therefore s. paul discourses to him of elders or bishops , so the anonymus writer of the martyrdome of timothy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the apostle timothy is ordained by s. paul , and enthroned bishop of the metropolis of ephesus , and accordingly is by theodoret styled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the apostle , i. e. chief ruler or bishop of the asiaticks ; and by eusebius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bishop of the province about ephesus . § . 13. the same might be shew'd of james bishop of jerusalem , who by that means was evidently metropolitane of all the cities of all judea , and even of syria and cilicia also , if we may argue concludently from the sending of that canon to those regions , act. 15.23 . it is likewise the affirmation of agrippa ( in philo ) of jerusalem , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was the metropolis , not only of one region judea , but of many more , because of the colonies it had sent out , naming 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , syria and cilicia among others . and thereto agrees again ( as far as syria ) what we find in the letters of commission , which saul had received from the sanhedrim at jerusalem ▪ to the synagogues of damascus , a city of syria , as being supposed under that metropolis of judea , act. 9.1 , 2. and accordingly after the destruction of jerusalem , tiberias had this privilege , as appears both by the imperial code , tit . de jud. & caelic . and by epiphanius , in the heresie of the ebionites , who refers all syria and cilicia to that metropolis , in the same manner as the synagogues in assyria and media to the sanhedrim in bagdat , and in all aegypt to that in alexandria ; but all this doth rather belong to the jewish form among themselves and the jurisdiction of that great sanhedrim over their colonies thus far diffused , and is not so appliable to the christian church at jerusalem , it being affirmed by joseph . de bel . jud. l. 3. c. ● . that antioch was metropolis of all syria , but this by the way . § . 14. thus philippi appears to have been the metropolis of one part of macedonia ( as thessalonica another ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the prime city of a portion , or division , or province of macedonia , act. 16.12 . and is accordingly so styled by photius the patriarch of constantinople 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the city of philippi being a metropolis of a province of the macedonians , and so epaphroditus their bishop in s. pauls time ( as * theodoret and others resolve from his being called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their apostle , phil. 2.25 . ) had under him many bishops , who are accordingly named in the plural phil. 1.1 . and all these subordinate to him as their metropolitane . § . 15. so of the seven churches of asia , rev. 2. and 3. it appears ( what hath been elsewhere proved ) that they were all metropoles ; of ephesus it hath been already clear , and s. chrysostome is expresse , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ephesus is a metropolis of asia , and theod. in ep. ad dioscor . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in photius , the antient writer of the martyrdome of timothy ( bib . num . 254. ) saith of s. john ▪ that being returned from his banishment 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he resided at the metropolis of the ephesians . and in vlpian , the proconsul under antoninus being to go to asia , was to touch upon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ephesus one and the chief of the metropoles of asia : and accordingly act. 19.38 . it is said of that city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the proconsuls were there , and the assises , as in the chief city of that province , and in eusebius , antoninus pius his epistle concerning the christians is said to have been read and proclaimed at ephesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the common councel or consessus of asia , and in aristides it is styled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the common magazine of asia , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whither they applied themselves for all their wants . all which are evidences that it was a metropolis ( and the chief ) of asia . § . 16. so of thyatira , saith ptolomee , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that it was a metropolis . of philadelphia the councel of constantinople sub menâ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the bishop of the metropolis of the philadelphians of the province of the lydians , i. e. in this lydian or proconsular asia . so laodicea , sardis , and smyrna ( together with ephesus ) are set down by plinie as cities in which the roman proconsuls kept their assises , and dispensed justice to all the neighbouring cities , which is the character of a metropolis in the civil notion , and the same he also affirms elsewhere of pergamus : and thus the whole number of the seven churches appear each of them , to have been metropoles , and accordingly by ignatius his epistles to the trallians and magnesians , ( the christians of two neighbour cities of lydia on the banks of meander , and so of this asia ) and by the mention of their bishops damas and polybius , it is evident that there were other episcopal sees in that asia , beside those seven named in the revelation , and those afterward appear to have been subject to the metropolis of ephesus , which alone of all the seven continued till constantin's time , the rest being destroyed . § . 17. from these manifest footsteps of metropolitical power in scripture , it is easie to descend through the first times , and find the like ; as when ignatius the archbishop of antioch ( the primitive martyr ) in his epistle to the romans styleth himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pastor of the church which was in syria , that whole region belonging then to that metropolis of antioch : agreeable to which is that of the author of the epistle to the antiocheni ( whosoever it was ) inscribing it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the church of god in syria , that belongs as a province to that of antioch : so the epistle to the romans is inscribed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the church which hath the presidencie in the place of the region or province of the romans , which gives the bishop of rome a metropolitical power over all other the bishops of that province , the vrbicarian region , as it was styled , and * distinguished from the province of italy properly so called , confined to the seven provinces of the civil jurisdiction of the vicarius italiae , and the ecclesiastical of the archbishop of milan the chief metropolis thereof . of the circuit or compasse of this province of the bishop of rome , many learned men have discoursed excellently out of the antient surveys of the provinces , particularly that very learned frenchman so rarely skilled , and judicious in antiquity , jacobus leschaserius , in his little tract de region . suburbic ▪ but none with more evidence of conviction , then our modest countreyman m r brerewood , who thus describes the antient jurisdiction of the bishop of rome , that it contained all those provinces of the diocese of italy , which the old lawyers term suburbicarias , of which there were ten , three islands , sicily , sardinia , and corsica , and the other seven in the firm land of italy , taking up in a manner all the narrow part of it , viz. all italy eastward , but on the west no farther extended then to the river magra ( the limit of tuscanie ) toward the tyrrhene sea , and to the river esino ( antiently asius ) toward the adriatick sea. for at that river esino met both the picenum , suburbicarium , and annonarium , the former of which belonged to the prefecture of rome , of which that city was the metropolis , and the later , with all the other provinces in the broader part of italy ( seven of them in all ) to the diocese of italy , of which milan was the metropolis . thus ruffinus in his paraphrase rather then translation of the nicene canon saith , that the bishop of rome was thereby authorized suburbicariarum ecclesiarum sollicitudinem gerere , to take and manage the care of the suburbicarian churches ; and there is no reason to doubt but that he that lived so neer after that councel , and was of italy , knew competently what he affirmed of that matter . and it being evident that in all other places the ecclesiastical jurisdictions were proportioned to the temporal of the lieutenants , and that the suburbicarian region , and the so many and no more provinces in them , pertain'd to the praefecture of the city of rome , it must follow that these were the limits of the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of that bishop also . but this by the way , in passing . § . 18. so when of s. mark it is affirm'd out of the anc●ent records by eusebius , that he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , first constituted churches ( in the plural ) in alexandria , and under the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the province of alexandria , put them all into the hands of anianus in the 8 th of nero , it is evident that alexandria was a metropolitical , or patriarchal see to which all aegypt did belong . § . 19. so s. cyprian the bishop of carthage , to which the whole province of africk pertained , is by the councel of constantinople in trullo , can. 2. called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the archbishop of the region of africk , and accordingly he often mentions the many bishops in his province , vniversis vel in nostrâ provinciâ — to all the bishops in our province — ep. 40. and latiùs fusa est nostra provincia , habet etiam numidiam & mauritanias duas sibi cohaerentes . our province is extended farther , hath numidia and the two mauritania's annexed to it , ep. 45. in each of which there being a church and consequently a bishop in every city ( as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. 14.23 . is all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in every city act. 16.4 . ) they were all subject to this metropolitane . § . 20. by all this , and much more which might be added , it is manifest , that as the several bishops had praefecture over their several churches , and the presbyters ▪ deacons , and people under them , such as could not be cast off by any without the guilt and brand of schisme , so the bishops themselves of the ordinary , inferior cities ( for the preserving of unity , and many other good uses ) were subjected to the higher power of archbishops or metropolitanes . § . 21. nay we must yet ascend one degree higher from this of arch-bishops or metropolitanes , to that supreme of primates or patriarchs , the division of which is thus cleared in the division and notitia of the roman empire . constantine the great instituted four praefecti praetorio , two in the east , as many in the west ; of the western , one at rome , another at triers , this last then called praefectus praetorio galliarum . these praefects had their several vicarii , who in their power , and name judged the provinces , as for example , the praefectus praetorio placed at triers had three vicarii , or lieutenants , one placed at triers , a second at lions , a third at vienna , from the greatnesse of whose authority , and the resort of all other cities and provinces to them for justice sprang the splendor , and dignity of those cities where they resided , and the dependence of large provinces and many other cities on each of them . this whole circuit which was thus subject to , or dependent on any such lieutenant , was by the greeks called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the style devolving from the civil to the ecclesiastical divisions , as the former both of cities , and of territories , and of metropoles or mother cities ( the chief in every province ) had done the bishop being answerable to the defensor civitatis , and the archbishop to the praesident in every province , from thence it came that every such metropolis which was the seat of any vicarius or lieutenant general , was ( over and above 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the bishop thereof primas , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , patriarcha , a primate , exarch , or patriarch , and all that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which is larger then a province , the joynt administration of many provinces , with the several metropoles , and metroplitanes contained in it ) was subjected to him . thus s. irenaeus being bishop of lyons , is by eusebius affirm'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to have the over sight or government of the provinces of france , either those only that were under that primate , or perhaps of all france , of which lyons was then in the ecclesiastical account the first exarchate ; for so saith the same eusebius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lyons , and vienna ( but first lyons ) were famously known to be beyond all others in those parts , the principal metropoles of france . and again 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , these were the most splendid illustrious churches there . to which first times i conceive belongs that verse of guilielmus brito in philippeide . et lugdunensis , quo gallia tota solebat , vt fama est , primate regi — placing all france under the primate of lyons , or affirming it from tradition ( ut fama est ) that it was wont antiently to be so placed , which was not well understood or taken notice of by the learned jos . scaliger , when he affirms it nuperum & novitium , & ex beneficio romani pontificis indultum , a privilege lately granted to the bishop of lyons by the pope , quod primatem sese vocari gaudeat , that he calls himself primate , which privilege , if not title , did so long since belong to irenaeus the bishop of that diocese . § . 22. i shall not need inlarge on this subject , or set down the several primates and dioceses belonging to them . it is known in the ancient notitiae of the church , that beside the three patriarchs of rome , alexandria , and antioch ( to which title afterward constantinople , and jerusalem were advanced ) there were eleven primates more , there being fourteen dioceses , or joynt administrations of many provinces ( for so the word anciently signified , not in the modern sense of it , one city and the territory , the jurisdiction of an ordinary bishop , for which they then used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) seven in the east , and the praefecture of the city of rome , and six more in the west , into which the whole empire was divided . and though the patriarchs had in councels the praecedence , or deference in respect of place , either because these three cities had the honour to disperse christianity in a most eminent manner to other cities , and nations , or from the great dignity of the cities themselves , ( * rome being the seat and first city of the empire , and thereupon thus dignified saith the councel of chalcedon : and alexandria by † dio chrysostome , and others affirmed to be the second , and antioch the third , saith josephus ) yet it is certain that the power and jurisdiction of primates , was as great as of patriarchs , and the office the same ( see anacle●us epist . ad episc . ital. and gratian dist . 99. ) and many times in authors the very titles confounded , as appears by justinian , who commonly gives primates the names of patriarchs of the dioceses . and if it be now demanded whether there were not anciently some summum genus , some one supreme either of , or over these patriarchs , i answer , that if we respect order , or priority of place again , then the bishop of rome had it among the patriarchs , as the patriarchs among the primates , that city of rome being lady of the world , and the seat of the empire ; but if we respect power , or authority , there was none anciently in the church over that of primates , and patriarchs , but only that of the emperour in the whole christian world ( as of every soveraign prince in his dominions ) as may appear by the ancient power , and practice of congregating , or convoking of councels , provincial by the metropolitan , patriarchal by the patriarch , or primate , national by the prince , for the first 1000 years , through the whole west , and general by the * emperor , when for the conserving the unity , or taking care for the necessities of the church , those last remedies appeared seasonable . but this of general councels being extraordinary , and such as the church was without them for the first three hundred yeers , and are now morally impossible to be had , we need not farther to ascend to these , but content our selves with those standing powers in the church , the uppermost of which are archbishops , primates , and patriarchs , to whom the bishops themselves are in many things appointed to be subject , and this power , and subjection , defined , and asserted , by the ancient canons , and the most ancient , even immemorial apostolical tradition , and custome , avouched for it , as may appear concil . nicen. 1. can. 4.6 . concil . antioch . c. 9.20 . concil . chalced. c. 19. in the sixt nicene canon , where the jurisdiction of all aegypt , lybia and pentapolis is affirmed to belong to the patriarch of alexandria , and order is taken that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or privileges of eminency which belong to the bishop of rome , of antioch , and metropolitanes of all other provinces , shall be conserved intire to them , the introduction is made in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let the ancient customes be in force , the very form which s. ignatius useth concerning apostolical customes which were to be solicitously retained in the church , and seems there particularly to refer to those orders , which s. mark had left in aegypt , lybia , and pentapolis , subjecting all the bishops there to the patriarch by him constituted in alexandria . § . 23. so in the 9 th canon of the councel of antioch , where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the bishop presiding in the metropolis , is appointed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to undertake the care of the whole province ▪ ( and all the inferior cities , and bishops in them ) and the bishops commanded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is straight added 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to the ancient canon of the fathers , which hath continued in force ( from the first times also unto that councel ) where if it be demanded what is the importance of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i conceive the word to be best explained by hesychius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( it should doubtlesse be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and so the meaning of the canon to be , agreeably to the expresse words of other canons , that as any ordinary bishop hath full power in his own church , which he may in all things , wherein that alone is concerned , exercise independently from the commands or directions of any , so in any thing of a more forein nature , wherein any other church is concerned equally with that , and so falls not under the sole cognizance or judgement of either , there the bishop of that church is to do nothing without directions from the metropolitane , and that is the meaning of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as that is all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — that no bishop must do any thing but what belongs particularly to him ratione officii ( any thing that another is concerned in , as well as he ) without the metropolitane . § . 24. so in the councel of chalcedon the direction is given for appeals in this order , from the bishop to the metropolitane , from the metropolitane to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or primate of the diocese or province , as where there are more metropolitanes then one ( as was shewed of ephesus in asia , and elsewhere frequently ) there some one is primate or patriarch among them , and to him lyes the appeal in the last resort , and from him to no other , see justinian novel . 123. c. 22. and cod. l. 1. tit . 4. leg . 29. who speaking of this calls it an ancient decree . § . 25. that which we find in the eighth canon of the great councel of ephesus , shall conclude this matter , when upon some claim of the patriarch of antioch for an interest in the ordaining of the patriarch of cyprus , the bishops of cyprus deny his claim , and deduce their privilege of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or independence from any forein bishop , from the very apostles times , a sanctis apostolis , say they , nunquam possunt ostendere , quòd adfuerit antiochenus & ordinaverit , vel communicaverit unquam insulae ordinationis gratiam , neque alius quisquam , from the very apostles times they can never shew that the patriarch of antioch or any other was present and ordained , or ( being absent ) sent the grace of ordination to this island , but that the bishops of constantia , the metropolis of that island , by name troilus , sabinus , and epiphanius , and all the orthodox bishops from the apostles times , ab his qui in cypro constituti sunt , have been constituted and ordained by their own bishops of the island , and accordingly they required that they might continue in the same manner , sicut initio à temporibus apostolorum — permansit cypriorum synodus , as they had done from the times of the very apostles , still appealing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the ancient manner , the ancient custome , the privileges , which from their first plantation they had enjoyed , and that from the apostles themselves : and accordingly that councel condemned the pretension of the patriarch of antioch , as that which was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an innovation against the ecclesiastical lawes and canons of the holy fathers , and orders not only in behalf of the cypriots that the bishops of their churches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — shall continue to enjoy their right inviolate according to the ancient custome , but extended their sentence to all other dioceses in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same shall be observed in all other dioceses and provinces wheresoever , that no bishop shall lay hold of another province , which hath not been formerly and from the beginning under their or their ancestors power . and again 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this holy and oecumenical synod hath decreed , that the privileges and rights of every province shall be conserved pure and inviolate , as they have enjoyed them from the beginning , according to the custome that hath anciently been in force . all deducing this power of primates over their own bishops ( and together excluding all forein pretenders ) from the apostles and first planters of the churches , and requiring all to remain , as they were first thus constituted . wherein as there be many things of useful observation , which will be more fitly appliable in the progresse of this discourse , so that which is alone pertinent to this place is only this , that there may be a disobedience , and irregularity , and so a schisme , even in the bishops in respect of their metropolitanes , and of the authority which they have by canon and primitive custome over them , which was therefore to be added to the several species of schisme set down in the former chapters . chap. iv. the pretended evidences of the romanist against the church of england examined , and first that from the bishop of romes supremacy by christs donation to s. peter . § . 1. the scene being thus prepared , and the nature and sorts of schisme defined and summarily enumerated , our method now leads us to inquire impartially , what evidences are producible against the church of england , whereby it may be thought lyable to this guilt of schisme , and these pretended evidences may be of several sorts , according to the several species of this sort of schisme described , and acknowledged by us . § . 2. the first evidence that is offered against us is taken from a presumed supremacy of the bishop of rome , as successor to s. peter , over all churches in the world , which being in the dayes of henry viii . renounced , and disclaimed , first by both vniversities , and most of the greatest and famous monasteries of this kingdome ( in their negative answer and determination of this question , an aliquid authoritatis in hoc regno angliae pontifici romano de jure competat plusquam alii cuiquam episcopo extero ? whether the pope of rome have of right any authority in the realme of england , more then any other forein bishop hath ) and that determination of theirs testified under their hands and scales , and after by act of convocation subscribed by the bishops and clergy , and confirmed by their corporal oaths , and at last the like imposed by act of parliament , 35 hen. viii . c. 1. all this is looked on , and condemn'd , as an act of schisme in this church and nation , in renouncing that power of s. peters successors placed over all christians by christ . § . 3. this objection against us consisting of many branches , every of which must be manifested or granted to have truth in it , or else the objection will be of no force , 1. the matter of fact , that thus it was in england ; 2. the consequence of that fact , that it were schisme , supposing these successors of s. peter were thus set over all christians by christ . 3. the matter of fact again , that s. peters successors were thus constituted vniversal pastors by christ ; this again of two branches , 1. that s. peter was so constituted , 2. that the power instated on s. peter devolved on the bishops of rome ; i shall endevour to expedite this matter by granting , and not requiring the pretenders farther to prove the two first branches , and leave the issue of the debate to their manifesting the truth , or our manifesting the falshood of ( the last mentioned , but indeed ) the principal fundamental part of the contention , as it consists of two branches , one as it respects s. peter , the other as it respects his successor in the see of rome ; wherein if the romanists pretensions shall appear to have truth in them , we must be acknowledged by breaking off from our submission to that see , to be formally schismaticks according to the grounds allready laid , and acknowledged by us ; but on the other side , if their pretensions herein shall appear to be false ▪ or unsufficiently proved and manifested , there is no other branch of the argument , be it never so true , which can give the conclusion any authority with any pondering rational man , it being in the power of any weak link to destroy the usefulnesse of the whole chain , and consequent to the falsenesse , or inevidence of any one proposition , that the conclusion shall not be inferred by that arguing . § . 4. and first for the pretension as far as it respects s. peter , and must be managed by evidences , and so concluded either on one side or the other , i shall begin with offering my evidences for the negative . § . 5 and first it is evident by scripture , that this apostle was the apostle of the circumcision , or jewes exclusively to the uncircumcision , or gentiles , which were generally anothers province ; by apostle here i understand a commissioner of christs , endued with authority by him , and this commission given to him , as to all the other apostles , indefinitely , and unlimitedly , not restrained by christs words to any particular province , but extending equally to the whole world ; what therefore is done in this kind is by subsequent act of the apostles themselves , who are testified to have done that , which it had been very unskilful , and improvident , and consequently unreasonable not to have done , viz. distributed their vniversal great province inro several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. 1.25 . distributions , or lots , or lesser provinces , one or more to goe one way , the other another , which is there called by s. peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to go to his own , or proper place , or assignation , for the witnessing the resurrection , and proclaiming the faith or doctrine of christ to the world . § . 6. now if the circumcision , or jewish christians were peculiarly s. peters province , the lot , or division assigned unto him , ( agreeable unto which it is , that both his preaching in the acts is to the jewes in judaea and samaria , and his epistles are both of them addressed to the jewes of the dispersion , and none else ) then it is not imaginable , how he should be the vniversal , or supreme pastor , or bishop of the whole world : for the christians of that age of the world being either jewes or gentiles , the jewes again either those that remained in their countrey , or those that were dispersed in other regions , there was but one portion of one of these , which can reasonably be placed under s. peters jurisdiction . the jewes that were in judaea were all immediately subject to the several bishops in each city , and all they to their metropolitane , james the bishop of jerusalem ; of this james the brother ( or neer kinsman ) of christ , many a of the ancients affirm , that he was by christ after his resurrection constituted bishop there ; b others that it was done by christ and his apostles ; c others the more ancient , that the apostles constituted him in that see , peter , james , and john , the three most honoured by christ , conferring this honour upon him , whereupon in this his see he is named before peter and john , gal. 2.9 . and hath the principal place in the councel at jerusalem , where s. peter is present , and accordingly gives the sentence , act. 15.19 . upon which the rescript is grounded , v. 22. from all which as it appeareth , that the jurisdiction in that metropolis ( which had extended very far among the jewes , not only to all judaea , but even to syria and cilicia and other regions , saith agrippa in a philo , as hath formerly been mentioned ) belonged to james the just , and not to s. peter , so it is as evident , that it was not by s. peter alone intrusted to him ( which might conclude some peculiar transcendent power of s. peter there ) but by s. james and s. john together with s. peter , which quite takes off all pretension of his to the singular supremacy there . § . 7. so again for the uncircumcision or gentile christians , they were not s. peter's province but peculiarly s. paul's ( by s. peter's own confession and acknowledgment gal. 2.7 . ) who is therefore styled the apostle of the gentiles , rom. 11.13 . and that without any commission received , or consequently dependence from s. peter , as he declares and contests it , gal. 1.12.17 . having his assignation immediately from christ , v. 16. accordingly whensoever those two great apostles came to the same city , the one constantly applied himself to the jewes , received disciples of such , formed them into a church , left them , when he departed that region , to be governed by some bishop of his assignation : and the other in like manner did the same to the gentiles . § . 8. thus we know it was at antioch , where s. peter converted the jewes , and s. paul the gentiles ( and certainly s. paul no way subordinate , or dependent on him , as appears by his behaviour toward him avowed , gal. 2.11 . ) and acordingly in ignatius his epistle to the magnesians we read of the church of antioch , that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 founded by s. peter and s. paul , not by one , or other , but by both , and in the ancient , if not ignatian epistle to the antiochians , you , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , have been the disciples of peter and paul , i. e. converted and ruled by them , the jewish part by one , and the gentile by the other , and the church of the gentiles at antioch , and syria ( of which antioch was the chief city ) and cilicia , is it , to which peculiarly the decrees of the councel at jerusalem are sent , act. 15.23 . and inscribed [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the brethren at antioch — those of the gentiles ] and that separately from the jewish church in that city or region , as is evident both by the contents of that rescript , or decretal epistle , in which only the gentiles were concerned , v. 28 , 29. and also by that which we read of s. peter , and the jewish proselytes , gal. 2.11 . that they withdrew from all communion and society with the gentile christians , upon which s. paul reproved him publickly v. 12. according to this condition of disparate , not subordinate churches at antioch , it is , that the writer of the apostolical constitutions tells us , that euodius and ignatius at the same time sate bishops of antioch , one succeeding s. peter , the other s. paul , one in the jewish , the other in the gentile congregation , and so continued a while , till both the churches ( the wall of separation being by compliance and christian charity removed ) joined , and united together under ignatius , who therefore as by a origen and b eusebius he is called the second , so by s. hierome is called the third bishop of antioch , and yet as truly by c athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 said to be constituted bishop after the apostles , and by d s. chrysostome to the same purpose ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — ) that the blessed apostles hands were laid upon him , whil'st yet theodoret ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) affirms him to have received the archisacerdotal honour from the hands of s. peter . § . 9. the same is as evident at rome where these two great apostles met again , and each of them erected and managed a church , s. peter of jewes , s. paul of gentiles . so saith e s. irenaeus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — the blessed apostles founded and built the church there ; and f epiphanius more expressely , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , peter and paul were apostles and bishops in rome : so the inscription on their tombes , which , saith a eusebius , continued to his time , mentions them both as founders of that church . so gaius an ecclesiastick writer of great antiquity , coaetaneous to pope zephyrynus , speaking of the monuments of s. peter and s. paul , calls them b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the monuments of them that founded that church . § . 10. so dionysius the bishop of corinth , who lived about 20 years after their death , affirms both of the church of rome and of corinth , c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was ( each of them ) the plantation of peter and paul ; and d prosper , petrus & paulus apostoli in urbe româ — peter and paul the apostles consecrated or constituted a church in the city of rome . and the very seales of popes are an irrefragable evidence of the same , as they are set down by mathew paris in the year of our lord 1237. in bullâ domini papae , saith he , stat imago pauli à dextris crucis in medio bullae figuratae , & petri à sinistris ; in the bull of the pope stands the image of s. paul on the right hand of the crosse , which is graven in the midst of the seal , and the image of s. peter on the left hand ; and this only account given for s. pauls having the nobler place ( quia paulus credidit in christum quem non vidit , à dextris figuratur ) because he believed on christ without seeing him ( here on earth ) and all this very agreeable to the story of scripture , which as ( according to the brevity of the relations there made ) it only sets down s. peter to be the apostle of the circumcision ( and of his being so at rome we make no question ) so it affirms of s. paul , that he preached at rome in his own hired house , receiving them which came unto him , act. 28.30 . which will most fitly be applied to the gentiles of that city , the jewes having solemnly departed from him v. 29. § . 11. accordingly in ignatius , ep. ad trall . we read of linus and clemens , that one was s. paul's , the other s. peter's deacon , both which afterward succeeded them in the episcopal chaire , linus being constituted bishop of the gentile , clemens of the jewish christians there ; and hence growes ( unquestionably ) that variety , or difference observed among writers , some making s. peter , others s. paul the founder of that church , but others ( as hath been shewed ) both of them ; some making clemens , others linus the first bishop after the apostles , both affirmers speaking the truth , with this scholion to interpret them : linus was the first bishop of the gentile christians , after s. paul ; clemens the first of the jewish after s. peter ; and after linus his death , cletus ( or anacletus ) succeeding him , and dying also , both congregations were at length joyned in one , under clemens ; by which one clew i suppose it easie to extricate the reader out of the mazes , into which the ancient writers may lead him , in rehearsing the first bishops of rome so very diversly , but this is not a place to insist on it . § . 12. by all which it appears that even in those churches , whereof s. peter is acknowledged the founder , as that of rome , and the like , yet he cannot be deemed the sole founder , but coequal to him s. paul of the gentile , as he of the jewish proselytes : and if the sole government of that church be devolved to the original , it will be found to have begun in clemens , in whom the union of the jewish and gentile congregations there was first made , and not in s. peter . § . 13. but then for another great part of the christian world , it is manifest that s. peter had never to doe either mediately , or immediately in the planting , or governing of it , and consequently that from him that power can never descend to any other . not to mention the travailes and labours , and plantations of the other apostles ; which certainly had each their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and consequently their provinces by apostolical joynt consent assigned them act. 1. ( though that short history written by s. luke , s. paul's attendant , mention them not ) i shall only insist on the beloved disciple his fellow-apostle of the circumcision , and that abundant labourer s. paul. § . 14. for s. john , who had the favour of christ , and the dignity of place before all others in christ's life time , even before s. peter himself ( which is the plain meaning of his style of the beloved disciple , and of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 leaning on his breast at supper joh. 21.20 . his having the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first place next to christ , as being in abrahams bosome plainly signifies being in dignity of place next to the father of the faithful ) 't is evident that he is one of those that by agreement went to the circumcision , was assigned the jewes for his province , as well as s. peter , and consequently he had the converting , and then governing of all the converted jewes of that lydian asia , and placing bishops over them , as a clemens alexandrinus , and b eusebius , and c prosper , and others tell us ; and the d author of the martyrdome of timothy saith of him , that being returned from his banishment by nerva's decree , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — he placed his seat of residence in ephesus , and having seven bishops with him he undertook the care of that metropolis , that is in effect , or by interpretation , of all asia , which was under that prime metropolis , as far as extended to the jewish christians there . § . 15. but then as before was said of the several churches and bishops in the same place , one of the dispersed jewes , the other of gentiles ; so it is evident that through all this asia ( the lydian or proconsular ) the faith was by s. paul planted among the gentile part , and by him s. timothy constituted bishop there : and so saith s. chrysostome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a whole intire nation , that of asia was intrusted to him . § . 16. where i shall demand of any man of the romish pretensions , or perswasion , what can be said , in any degree probably , for s. peters vniversal pastorship , whilst he lived , over this asia , whose seven metropoles ( and sure there were inferior churches , or episcopal sees under them ) are so early famous , being honoured with christs-epistle to them in the revelation ; was s. peter the supreme pastor of these churches ? had he any , or did he ever exercise , or pretend any jurisdiction over them ? was not all the jewish part of that province ultimately under s. john ? and the gentile part under s. paul , and s. timothy constituted , and commissionated by him ? doth not s. paul give him full instructions ( and such as no other apostle could countermand , or interpose in them ) leaving no other appeal or place of application for farther directions , save only to himself , when he shall come to him , 1 tim. 3.14 , 15. did not s. paul by his own single power delegate that province to him , and seat him there ? ( as appears by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i exhorted or appointed thee , when i went to macedonia , 1 tim. 1.3 . ) and may it not as reasonably be said that s. peter was with him in his journey to macedonia , as that he joyned with him in giving that commission to timothy ? § . 17. and so likewise of titus in crete , was he not by s. paul peculiarly left in crete , and constituted primate there ? is it imaginable that under christ there could be any head of that church of that whole island , save only s. paul ? § . 18. the same may certainly be said of all the gentile churches in all other islands , and parts of the world , and consequently in this of britannie , wherein our present debate is terminated : and therefore if that of * simeon metaphrastes should be thought to have truth in it , that s. peter was in britannie some time and baptized many into the faith of christ , and constituted churches , ordaining bishops and presbyters and deacons in the 12. of nero , in all reason it must be extended no farther then s. peters line , as he was the apostle of the circumcision , i. e. to the jewes that might at that time be dispersed here , and so not prejudge the other more authentick relations , of joseph of arimathea or simon zelotes having planted the faith in this island . § . 19. this i suppose is one competent proof of the negative , as it respects the person of s. peter , that he was not ( could not be , as things stood with him ) vniversal pastor of the whole church , constituted by christ . and accordingly we see in prosper disputing against hereticks : which divide from the church , he expresses it by relictâ pace communionis , & panis unius dei & apostolorum , that they leave the communion of christ and his apostles in the plural , and adds cum in ipsâ hierusalem jacobus — joannes apud ephesum , andreas & caeteri per totam asiam , petrus & paulus apostoli in urbe româ , gentium ecclesiam pacatam unámque posteris tradentes , ex dominicâ pactione sacrarunt , that james in jerusalem , john at ephesus , andrew and the rest through all asia , peter and paul at rome consecrated the church of the nations . whereas the church had the several apostles for the founders ( and those independent one from the other ) so the unity from which hereticks , and schismaticks depart , is said to have been founded equally in each of them , in john and james and andrew and others , as well as in s. peter , nay at rome , not in s. peter alone , but in him and s. paul , together . § . 20. in the next place another evidence we may have of this ( in reference again to s. peters person ) from that which is visible in the donation of the power of the keyes set down in scripture . this power mat. 16.19 . is promised to s. peter , [ i will give unto thee the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven — ] but to him that from hence pretends this donative and consequent power , as a peculiarity and inclosure of s. peters , these considerations will be of force to supersede his conclusion , 1. that these words here set down by s. matthew , c. 16. are not the instrument of christs conveyance , the words of his commission , but those other joh. 20.21 . as my father hath sent me , so send i you , upon which words it is added , he breathed on them , and said , receive the holy ghost , whose sins you remit , they are remitted — and these ( as also those mat. 28.19 . which are a repetition much to the same purpose ) are delivered in common , and equally to all , and every of the eleven apostles , as is evident by the plural style throughout that commission . § . 21. secondly , the words mat. 16. are only a promise in the future , what christ will afterward do , and so the donation there set down only by way of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or anticipation , and if the making this promise to him peculiarly , seem to make any thing for him , then the repetition of that promise , mat. 18.18 . which is made to all the apostles indefinitely will take off that appearance , where it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i say unto you ( to all of them equally and without any peculiarity of restriction ) whatsoever ye shall bind &c. the applying the words particularly to s. peter hath one special energie in it , and concludes that the ecclesiastical power of oeconomy or stewardship in christ's house ( of which the keyes are the token isa . 22.21 . ) belongs to single persons , such as s. peter was , and not only to consistories , or assemblies , that whatsoever s. peter acted by virtue of christs power thus promised , he should be fully able to act himself , without the conjunction of any other , and that what he thus did ( clave non errante ) no one ( or more men ) on earth could rescind without him , which is a just ground of placing the power ecclesiastical in single persons , and not in communities , in the prelate of each church , and not in the presbytery . but still this is no confining of this power to s. peter , any more then to any other single apostle , who had this power as distinctly promised to each of them , as here s. peter is pretended , and acknowledged to have ; to which purpose , as the words of scripture are most clear mat. 18.18 . ( and accordingly mat. 19. the promise is again made of twelve thrones for each apostle to sit on one , to judge , i. e. to rule , or preside in the church , and when that promise was finally performed in the descent of the spirit , act. 2. the fire that represented that spirit was divided , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sat upon every one of them , without any peculiar mark allowed s. peter , and they were all filled with the holy ghost , and so this promise equally performed , as it was made , to all ) so is this exactly the notion , which the ancient fathers of the church appear to have had of them ; thus theophylact according to s. chrysostomes sense , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though the words [ i will give thee ] were delivered to s. peter alone , yet the power hath been conferred on all the apostles . s. cyprian hath an eminent place to this purpose , dominus noster — episcopi honorem & ecclesiae suae rationem disponens in evangelio loquitur , & dicit petro , ego tibi dice , quia tu es petrus , & tibi dabo claves — inde per temporum & successionum vices episcoporum ordinatio & ecclesiae ratio decurrit , ut ecclesia super episcopos constituatur , & omnis actus ecclesiae per eosdem gubernetur , christ meaning to set down the way of ordering his church , saith unto peter , i will give thee the keyes — from this promise of his , the ordination of bishops and course of the church hath continued by all successions and vicissitudes , so that the church is built upon bishops ( in the plural ) and every ecclesiastick act is governed by them . so s. ambrose , claves illas regni coelorum in beato petro cuncti suscepimus sacerdotes , all we bishops have in s. peter received those keyes of the kingdome of heavens . and accordingly s. athanasius mentions the office of bishop as one of those things 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which christ effigiated or formed in or by the apostles ; and s. basil the great calls episcopacy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the presidency of the apostles , the very same , that christ bestowed upon all , and not only on one of them . § . 23. by all which it is evident again , that the power which christs commission instated on s. peter , was in like manner intrusted to every other single apostle , as well as to him , and consequently that this of universal pastor was no personal privilege , or peculiarity of s. peters . § . 24. thirdly , that argument which is taken by learned romanists from the name of peter [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a rock or foundation stone ] bestowed on him by christ , as if that were sufficient to found this pretended supremacy , is presently evacuated , and retorted on the pretenders , when 't is remembred 1. that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , directly the same , signifies vulgarly a stone ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in homers iliad . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) and of it self denotes no more , but by the context , mat. 16.18 . being applied to a building must needs signifie a foundation stone ; and then 2. that all the 12 apostles are in like manner ( and not he only , or above any other ) styled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , twelve foundations apoc. 21.14 . each of which stones having the name of an apostle on it , in respect of the power , and dignity that belonged to every one , is severally compared to a precious stone ; and it being there in vision apparent , that the wall of the city , i. e. of the church , being measured exactly , and found to be an hundred fourty four , i. e. twelve times twelve cubits , 't is evident that that mensuration assignes an equal proportion whether of power or province to all and every of the apostles which is again a prejudice to the vniversal pastorship of any one of them . chap. v. the evidences from the bishop of romes succeeding s. peter examined . § . 1. from this argument of the pretenders as it respects s. peters person , and hath thus been manifested to be utterly incompetent to inferre the designed conclusion , it is now very easie , but withall very unnecessary to proceed to the other part of it , as it concerns s. peters successors in his episcopal , or ( which is all one as to this matter ) his apostolical seat , and power at rome , for certainly what he had not himself , he cannot devolve to any of his successors upon that one skore of succeeding him , and therefore as this of s. peters personal power , and eminence is the principal , so it is in effect the only ground of the romanists pretension , this other of derivative power in his successor , being like water that flowes from a spring , apt to ascend no higher , then the fountain stood , and therefore i again think fit to remind the romanist , and peremptorily to insist on this exception , that if he cannot make good s. peters oecumenical power , and pastorship over all the rest of the apostles , from the donation of christ ( which i suppose hath been evidenced he cannot do , and for any proofs made use of by any to that purpose , and drawn either from feed my sheep , and lambs , or from the mention of the two swords , or from thou art peter — they have so little apparence of strength in them , and have so often been answered by those of our perswasion , that i cannot think it useful , or seasonable to descend to any farther survey of them ) his other pretensions are at an end for the vniversal pastorship of the pope his successor , whose power , and authority over all other bishops cannot farther be extended ( upon this account of succession ) then s. peter's was over all other apostles , the several bishops of the world holding from ( as succeeding ) some apostle or other , as certainly as the bishop of rome can by any be supposed to succeed s. pe-peter , according to that of * tertullian , sicut smyrnaeorum ecclesia polycarpum à joanne collocatum refert , sicut romanorum clementem à petro ordinatum edit , perinde utique & caeterae exhibent quos ab apostolis in episcopatum constitutos apostolici seminis traduces habent , as the records of the church of smyrna deduce polycarp their bishop from s. john , and as the church of rome relates that clement ( their bishop ) was ordained by s. peter , in like manner the rest of the churches shew us the bishops which they have had constituted by the apostles , and who have brought down and derived the apostolick seed unto them . § . 2. what therefore i shall now adde in return to the second branch of this argument , concerning the power of s. peters successor , as such , will be perfectly ex abundanti , more then needs , and so i desire it may be looked on by the reader , whose curiosity perhaps may require farther satisfaction , when his reason doth not , and in compliance therewith i shall propose these few considerations . * first whether s. peter did not as truly plant a church of jewish believers at antioch , and leave a successor bishop there , as at rome he is supposed to have done ? 2. whether this were not done by him , before ever he came to rome ? 3. whether the concession of these two unquestioned matters of fact ▪ doe not devolve all power , and jurisdiction on the bishop of antioch s. peters successor there , which by that tenure and claim of succession from s. peter can be pretended to by the bishop of rome , s. peters successor also ? nay , whether the right of primogeniture be not so much more considerable on this side , then any circumstance on the other side , which can be offered to counterbalance it , that he which succeeded him in his first seat ( antioch ) is , if there be force in the argument of succession , to be looked on as the chief of his strength , partaker of more power by virtue of that succession , then he that afterward succeeded him at rome ? § . 3. this we know , that anciently there were three patriarchates , and antioch was one of them , as rome was another ; and though i , who lay not that weight on the argument of succession from s. peter , am not engaged to affirme that antioch was the chief of these , yet this i contend , that there is much lesse reason , that any precedence , which is afforded rome by the ancient canons , should be deemed imputable to this succession from s. peter , when 't is evident that claim belongs to antioch , as well as to rome , and first to antioch , and afterwards to rome , and no otherwise to rome , then as it was first competible to antioch . § . 4. of rome it is confessed that the primacy of dignity or order belonged to that , the next place to alexandria , the third to antioch , which is an evidence that the succession from s. peter was not considered in this matter , for then alexandria , which held only from s. mark , must needs have yeelded to antioch which held from s. peter . the original of this precedence , or dignity of the bishop of rome is sure much more fitly deduced by the fourth general councel holden at chalcedon , confirming the decree of the councel of constantinople , that that see shall have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , equal privileges , and dignities , and advantages with rome , upon this account , that constantinople was new rome , and the seat of the empire at that time , which , say they , was the reason ( and not any donation of christs to s. peter , or succession of that bishop from him ) that rome enjoyed such privileges ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the fathers at constantinople being moved with the same reasons had rightly judged that now the same privileges should belong to that church or city , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that this being next to old rome should in all ecclesiastical affaires have the same dignity , or greatnesse that old rome had . where , as the original of the dignity of that see is duly set down , and ( which is observable ) in the whole contest never so much as quarelled at by the legats , viz. the residence of the imperial majesty there ( a thing very remarkable in the several degrees of dignity in the church , that of patriarchs , primates , archbishops , bishops , which generally observed their proportions with the civil state , as hath been shewed ) so is the nature of it also , no supremacy of power over all the bishops of the world ( for that monarchical power is not at once competible to two equals or rivals ) and withall the moveablenesse or communicablenesse of that dignity , as that which may follow the imperial seat , whithersoever it is removeable , and is not fixed at rome by any commission of christ or succession from s. peter . § . 5. but because i shall suppose that a canon , though of an vniversal councel , when it is found thus derogatory to the height which rome now pretends to , shall not by the romanist be acknowledged to be authentick , as wanting that which the romanist makes absolutely necessary to the validity of councels or canons , the suffrage of the bishop of rome and consent of his legates ; and because i mean not here to goe out of my way to vindicate ( which i could very readily doe ) the authority of that canon , or to shew the strangenesse of this dealing , not to admit any testimony against them , but wherein they have given their own suffrage ( a method of security beyond all amulets , if no man shall be believed against me , till i have joyned with him to accuse and condemne my self ) i shall therefore lay no more weight on this , then will , without this support , be otherwise upheld , and is in some measure evident by the romanists rejecting this canon , and adding that the church of antioch rejected it also ; which argues that that which the church of constantinople was willing to acquire by this decree , was as derogatory to the dignity of antioch as of rome . and as that concludes that antioch had professedly the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , equal privileges with rome , the dignity of a patriarchate , and the attendants and pompes of that , so it proceeds on a concession , that all that constantinople wanted , or in which this new came short of the old rome , was only the dignity of a patriarchate , without any ordinary jurisdiction over other churches . which again shewes us what was the nature of the preeminence of the roman see at that time ; no supreme authoritative power over other primates , but only a precedence , or priority of place in councels , an eminence in respect of dignity , which is perfectly reconcileable with the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and independence , the no-subordination or subjection of other primates . § . 6. this hath formerly been manifested , when we discoursed of the original , and power , and dignity of primates , and patriarchs , and is put beyond all controll by that canon of the councel of ephesus in the cause of the archbishop of cyprus , over whom the patriarch of antioch , though patriarch of all the orient , was adjudged to have no manner of power . and this independency of cyprus , not only from the patriarch of antioch , but from all others whomsoever , was contested then , as from the apostles times , and asserted , and vindicated by that councel , and order given indefinitely against all invasions for time to come , in whatever diocese , that no bishop shall encroach upon anothers province , or usurp a power , where from the apostles times he had not enjoyed it ; which how directly it ( is applicable to , and ) prejudgeth the pretensions of rome , as well as of antioch , is so manifest , that it cannot need farther demonstrating . § . 7. of the same kind , two farther instances i shall here adde ; first of the archbishop of carthage , who being the chief primate , or metropolitan ( for these two words in the african style , different from the usage of other churches , are observeable to signifie the same thing ) in africk , i. e. in one of the thirteen dioceses of the empire , appears to have been independent from all other power , an absolute primate , subject to no superiour , or patriarch , whether of alexandria , or rome . this is evident by justinian in the 131 novel , where the emperour gives the same privileges to the archbishop of * carthage , which he had formerly given to the bishop of justiniana prima ; which being the second example i meant to mention , i shall briefly shew what that prerogative was , which equally belonged to these two . § . 8. justiniana prima was the head of a dacia the new ; a diocese ( as that signifies more then a province , a b primat's , a patriarch's dominion ) erected by justinian the emperour ; and that city thus dignified , as the c place where he had been born , and the archbishop thereof made primate of all that diocese . this is thus expressed in the imperial constitutions , nov. 11. that he shall have omnem censuram ecclesiasticam , summum sacerdotium , summum fastigium , summam dignitatem , all power of ecclesiastical jurisdiction , the supreme priesthood , supreme honour and dignity ; and in the constitutions set out by gothofred out of an old ms. copy , tu & omnes justinianae primae antistites , quicquid oriatur inter eos discrimen , ipsi hoc dirimant , & finem eis imponant , & nec ad alium quendam eatur , sed suum agnoscant archiepiscopum omnes praedictae provinciae — that all the provinces shall in the last resort make their appeal to him for all controversies . and nov. 131. c. 3. that in all that diocese he shall have locum apostolicae sedis , the place or dignity of an apostolical seat ; which gave nicephorus occasion ( in his relation of this matter ) to affirme that the emperour made it a free city , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an head unto itself , with full power independent from all others : and though the first bishop thereof was consecrated by vigilius bishop of rome , as by some bishop it is certain he must , yet that is of no force against the conclusion , to which i designe this instance , it being evident that being consecrated , he was absolute , and depended not on any , and his * successors were to be ordained by his councel of metropolitanes , and not by the pope . § . 9. which as it makes a second instance of the point in hand , so when it is remembred , that all this independent absolute power was conferred upon this city ( the emperors favorite ) only by his making it a primate's , or chief metropolitane's see , and that carthage's being the prime metropolis of africk is expressed by having the same privileges , that justiniana prima had , it will follow ( what is most certain , and might otherwise be testified by innumerable evidences ) that every primate , or chief metropolitane was absolute within his own circuit , neither subject nor subordinate to any forein superiour , whether pope , or patriarch ; and that was all which was useful ( much more then was necessary ) to be here demonstrated . and being so , there remains to the see of rome no farther claim to the subjection of this island , nor appearance of proof of the charge of schisme , in casting off that yoke , upon this first score of s. peter's , or his successors right to the vniversal pastorship . § . 10. upon this head of discourse depends also all that is , or can be said for the confining the catholick church to the number of those , who live in obedience to the roman church , or bishop . for if there have been from the apostles times , an independent power vested in each primate , or chief metropolitane ( as hath been evidently shown ) then how can it be necessary to the being of a member of the catholick church , to be subject to that one primate ? 't is certainly sufficient to the conservation of the unity of the whole church , that every one pay an obedience , where an obedience is due , and no way usefull toward that end , that those that are born free , should resigne up , divest themselves of that privilege , and become 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 servants or subjects of their own making . but i shall not enlarge on this matter , but conclude with that of our bishops in convocation , anno chr : 1537. in their book intituled , [ the institution of a christian man : ] that it was many hundred years before the bishop of rome could acquire any power of a primate over any other bishops , which were not within his province in italie , and that the bishops of rome doe now transgresse their own profession made in their creation , for all the bishops of rome alwaies when they be consecrated and made bishops of that see , doe make a solemn profession and vow , that they shall inviolably observe all the ordinances made in the eight first general councels , among which it is especially provided , that all causes shall be determined within the province , where they be begun , and that by the bishops of the same province ; which absolutely excludes all papal , i. e. forein power out of these realms . chap. vi. their third plea from the bishop of rome having planted christianity among us . § . 1. the next part of the romanist's arguing against us , is taken from a peculiar right , or claim , that the bishop or see of rome hath to our obedience , upon the score of having planted christianity among us . § . 2. but before i proceed to shew the invalidity of this plea , i desire it may first be observed , that the pleading of this , as the title by which the bishop of rome hath right to our subjection , is absolutely unreconcileable with his former pretensions founded in his oecumenical pastorship by succession to s. peter ; for certainly he that is supposed ( in grosse ) to have that original title to all power over all churches , cannot be imagined to acquire it afterward ( by way of retail ) over any particular church . he that claims a reward , as of his own labour and travail , must be supposed to disclaim donation , which is antecedent to , and exclusive of the other , as the title of descent is to that of conquest , and it is a very great prejudice to the justice of his pretensions , who findes it necessary to mix things that are so incompetible . § . 3. and therefore i am obliged to offer this dilemma to the romanist in this place , and to demand , which is the pope's true title to the subjection of this island ? the donation of christ , or conversion wrought by augustine the monk ? if the latter be affirmed to be it , then it must be granted by him , both that this island before the time of pope gregory was no way subjected to the romish see , and withall that no christian nation is at this day thus subject , but such as doth appear to have been converted by rome , as the saxons here are supposed to have been ; and then this concession will lose more subjects to the apostolick see , then the return of these islands to the desired subjection would ever be able to countervail , or recompense ; and therefore it is reasonable to insist on the terms of this bargain , and not to yeild the one , till the other be yeilded to us , but if the former be affirmed to be it , and that indeed the commission from christ to s. peter be still the fundamental hold , by which our subjection is , and alwaies hath been due to his successors , then is that other of the conversion by augustine but a fallacious pretense , a non causa pro causâ , to amuze us , and need not farther be answered , or invalidated , then by this confession . § . 4. but then passing by this advantage , and taking the objection , as it lies by it self , these farther considerations will take off all force from it . 1. that this island was converted to the faith of christ , long before augustine's preaching to the saxons , either in , or very neer the apostles times , in tiberius his reign , saith gildas , and long before tertullian's , and origen's time , as by them appears , tertull : in apol : and orig : in ezech : hom : 4. to this i shall not need to adde the testimony of eleutherius the bishop of rome , in the vulgar epistle to our lucius , the first christian king of the world , styling him vicarium dei in regno suo , god's vicegerent in his own kingdome , because , as there is some doubt of the authenthenticknesse of that epistle , so the * only thing that we have now need to conclude from it , is otherwise evident , viz : that the nation was in his time converted , and so long before augustine's coming . and though by dioclesian's persecution , christianity were here shrewdly shaken , yet i suppose , that will not be thought argumentative , both because it might be of ill example against other nations , where the faith was as bloodily persecuted in that , or other times , and possibly at some point of time against rome it self , where s. peter's chair was not alwaies amulet sufficient to avoid the like destructions , and especially because it is evident , that the british church survived that calamity , three of our bishops being ten years after that , present ( and their names subscribed , eborius of yorke , restitutus of london , and adelfius coloniae londinensium ) at the councel of arles , eleven years before the first councel of nice . so likewise at the time of that nicene councel it appears , that as britaine was one of the six dioceses of the west empire ( see notitia provinc : occident : ) so there were in it three metropolitanes , the bishop of york ( his province maxima caesariensis ) the bishop of london ( his province britannia prima ) the bishop of caeruske ( his province britannia secunda ) in monmouthshire , * which after in king arthur's time was translated to s. davids , where it continued an archbishoprick , till king henry i. who subjected it to canterbury , and † all this space of about 500 years after augustines coming , the bishops thereof , eleven in number , were all consecrated by the suffragan bishops of that province , without any profession , or subjection to any other church , as the annales there affirm . § . 5. to the same purpose is it , that when augustine required subjection to the pope and church of rome , the abbat of bangor is recorded to have returned him this answer , notum sit vobis , quòd nos omnes sumus — be it known unto you , that we are all subject , and obedient to the church of god , and the pope of rome , but so as we are also to every pious and good christian , viz : to love every one in his degree and place , in perfect charity , and to help every one by word and deed to attain to be the sons of god ; † et aliam obedientiam quàm istam non scio debitam ei quem vos nominatis esse papam , nec esse patrem patrum vendicari & postulari , and for any other obedience i know none due to him whom you call the pope , and as little doe i know by what right he can challenge to be father of fathers , bishop of bishops , or vniversal bishop . praeterea nos sumus sub gubernatione episcopi caerlegionensis super oscâ — as for us , we are under the rule of the bishop of caerlegion upon vsk , who is to overlook and govern us under god. § . 6. from hence the result is clear , that whatever is pretended from augustine the monk , or supposed to have been then pressed by him , for the advancing of the popes interest in this island , and concluding us guilty of schisme in casting off that yoke , yet the british bishops still holding out against this pretension , and that with all reason on their side , if the title of conversion , which the romanist pleads for our subjection , may be of any validity with him , it must needs follow , that the whole island cannot upon this score of augustine's conversion , be now deemed schismatical , it being certain , that the whole island , & particularly the dominion of wales , was not thus converted by augustine , nor formerly by any sent from rome , or that observed the roman order ( as appears by the observation of easter , contrary to the usage received at rome ) but either by joseph of arimathea , or simon zelotes , as our annals tell us most probably . and this in the first place must needs be yeilded to by those that expect to receive any advantage to their cause by this argument ; and if they will still extend their title equally , to those parts of britannie , which augustine did not , as to those which he did convert , to wales , as well as to kent , it is evident they must doe it upon some other score ( whatsoever the pretense be ) and not upon this of conversion . § . 7. but then 2 dly , for as much of this island , as was really converted to the faith by the coming of augustine , there is no title for their subjection , and the perpetual subjection of their posterity from this . § . 8. to examine this a while by other known practises of the christian world , s. paul by himself or his apostles , or procurators , was the great converter of the gentiles ; concerning him i shall demand , whether all those nations converted by him and his ministers , are to all ages obliged to be subject to that chair , where s. paul sat ( whether in the church at antioch , or rome , or the like ) at the time of his sending out , or going himself to convert them ; if so , then 1. there cannot be a greater prejudice imaginable to s. peter's vniversal pastorship ; and 2. it will in the story of the fact appear to have no degree of truth in it ; timothie that was placed over asia in ephesus , and titus over crete , being ( as hath formerly appeared ) supreme in those provinces , and independent from any other see , and generally that is the nature of primates or patriarchs , to have no superior either to ordain , or exercise jurisdiction over them , but themselves to be absolute within their province , and their successors to be ordained by the suffragan bishops under them ; which could not be , if every such church , where such a primate was placed , were subject to that church , from which they received the faith. § . 9. to put this whole matter out of controversie , it is , and hath alwaies been in the power of christian emperors , and princes within their dominions to erect patriarchates , or to translate them from one city to another , and therefore whatever title is supposeable to be acquired by the pope in this island upon the first planting of the gospel here , this cannot so oblige the kings of england ever since , but that they may freely remove that power from rome to canterbury , and subject all the christians of this island to the spiritual power of that archbishop or primate , independently from any forein bishop . § . 10. for the erection of primacies or patriarchates , that of justiniana prima † forementioned , and set down at large , is an evident proof , justinian erecting that ( long after the rest of the primates seats in the empire ) to be an archiepiscopal see , absolute and independent , and subjecting all dacia the new to it ▪ and though the pope vigilius was by the emperour appointed to ordain the first bishop there , yet were his successors to be ordained by his own metropolitanes , and the bishops under him not to appeal to any others , as hath in each particular formerly been evidenced . § . 11. the same also hath in like manner been shewn of carthage , which was by the same justinian ( not originally dignified , but ) † after the rescuing it out of the vandales hands , restored to a state of primacie , after the pattern or image of justiniana prima , and two provinces more annexed , then had antiently belonged to that bishops jurisdiction . § . 12. before either of these the emperour valentinian the 3 d , anno christi 432. by his rescript constituted ravenna a patriarchal seat ; and from his time that held the patriarchate without any dependence on the bishop of rome to the time of constantinus pogonatus , and though at that time the greek emperors vicarii or exarchs being not able to support the bishop of ravenna against the longobards , he was fain to flie for support to the bishop of rome , and so submitted himself unto him , and after reparatus , the next bishop theodorus did the like to pope agatho , whether upon the score of great friendship with him , or in despite to his own clergie ( with whom he had variance ) saith sabellicus , yet the people of ravenna thought themselves injured hereby , and joyned with their next bishop foelix to maintain their privilege , though pope constantine stirring up justinian 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them , they were worsted , and defeated in their attempt . § . 13. other examples there are of this kinde , * balsamon points at some , which from the † emperours charter had this privilege , not to be subject to the patriarch of constantinople , calling them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which were archbishops independent : so under phocas , the patriarchate of grado in italie was erected , saith * warnefridus de gestis longobard : others , as eginartus chancellor to charles the great , and who wrote his life , say it was done by charles the great . and so doth rhegino who lived in the next age . and accordingly in duarenus de benef : lib. 1. cap. 9. among the minorum gentium patriarchatus , that of grado is reckoned for one , and joyned with aquileia , canterbury and bourges . § . 14. and that it was a frequent usage in the east , may appear by the 12 th canon of the councel of chalcedon , where we finde mention of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cities honoured by letters patents from the kings or emperors with the name and dignity of metropoles , and where the councel represses the ambition of bishops , which sought those privileges 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by rescripts from the emperours , and censures it , ( in them that so sought it ) as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not agreeable to the ecclesiastical canons , repressing the ambition of the bishops , but not cassating the rescripts , nor withdrawing the honour from the metropolis so erected ; of this canon balsamon saith , that when it was made , many emperours had erected many metropolitanes , and naming three , adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that other bishopricks were thus honoured , and that the emperours did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to the power that was given them . where it is farther to be observed , 1. that this councel was within 20 years after that grant of valentinian , and consequently , if balsamon say right , ( that at that time many emperours had erected many ) there must needs be others before valentinian . 2. that the 17 th canon of the councel of chalcedon doth more expresly attribute this power to the prince , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if a city be built or restored by the kings power , let the ecclesiastical order follow the political . and the same power is acknowledged to belong to the prince by the councel in trullo can : 38. and then 3. that these two last canons are reconciled with that 12 th of chalcedon , by the law of alexius comnenus , and assented to by the synod under him , see balsam : in can : 38. concil : in trullo , who concludes that the king might doe it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , upon his own incitation or motion , but it should not be lawful for any by base sollicitation to seek or obtain it , adding that in that case , upon any such rescript of the emperour for such erection , it might be lawful for the patriarch to suspend the confirmation of the charter , untill he represented to the emperour what the canons were in that case , and understood if the emperour did it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from his own motion , which appearing , the patriarch was to admit thereof . and accordingly the same balsamon ( on concil : carthag : can : 16. ) doth upon that canon professedly found the authority of princes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to advance an episcopal see into a metropolis , and anew to constitute bishops and metropolitanes . § . 15. as for the transplanting it also from one city to another , besides that the power of doing that , is consequent to the former , the examples of this practise are antient , and frequent in this kingdome ; the passage set down out of the annals of gisburne may be sufficient , from caeruske the metropolitan seat was translated to s. davids by king arthur , where it continued till henry i. and then was reduced to canterbury . § . 16. in like manner 't is evident that the kings of england have divided bishopricks , and erected new ones ; about the year 630. kinigilsa king of the west-saxons , and oswald of the northumbers , erected an episcopal see at dorchester , and placed birinus in it , so saith guil : malmesb : de gest : pontif : angl : l. 2. about the year 660 , kenewalch king of the west-saxons divided this bishoprick , and left part to dorchester , and assigned the western part to be the diocese of the new bishop , which he constituted at winchester , so saith hen : huntingd : hist : l. 3. then winchester was subdivided in the time of king ina , who also erected a new bishoprick at sherburne , and gave it to aldelme , so henr : huntingd : l. 4. and guil : malm : de reg : angl : l. 1. c. 2. and after the norman conquest , henry i. divided cambridgeshire from the see of lincolne , and erected the bishoprick of elie , so saith guiliel : malm : de gest : pontif : angl : l. 4. and florentius wigorn : anno 1109. who lived at that time . so also saith eadmer with some variation , regi , archiepiscopo , caeterísque principibus regni visum fuit de ipsâ parochiâ ( lincolniae ) sumendum , quo fieret alter episcopatus , cujus cathedra principatus poneretur in abbatiâ de eli , it seemed good to the king , the archbishop , and the rest of the princes of the kingdome to take as much out of the diocese of lincolne , as would make another bishoprick , the chair whereof should be set up in the abbacie of elie. adding indeed that anselme ( a zealous , promoter of the papal authority , as the author eadmer was a disciple and admirer of anselme ) wrote to pope paschalis , desiring his consent to it , as a thing fit to be done , and yet to which he assures him he would not give his consent , but salvâ authoritate papae , reserving the rights of the pope ; which though it doth suppose the popes pretensions to that authority at that time , and anselm's yeilding it to him , yet it proves also this right of our kings to have been even then adhered to , preserved , and exercised by them , as the former authors had set it down . § . 17. of this nature also is the authority of kings in exempting any ecclesiastical person from the bishops jurisdiction , and granting episcopal jurisdiction to such person , which is largely asserted and exemplified in cawdries case 5. report . 14. one instance of this will serve for all , that of william the conqueror , who exempted battel abbey in sussex from the jurisdiction of the bishop of chichester , and gave the abbat episcopal jurisdiction in his territorie and the words of the charter are produced by m r ▪ selden on eadmer , hoc regali authoritate & episcoporum ac baronum meorum attestatione constituo , i appoint this by my royal authority by the attestation of my bishops and barons . § . 18. adde even unto this , that even the westerne princes ( in those parts where the bishops of rome have much hightned their power , ever since the kings were christians ) the german emperours , the kings of france and england , alwayes claimed to be founders of all bishopricks in their dominions , patrons of them to bestow them by investiture , that the kings of france and england often claimed and were acknowledged to have right , that no legate from rome might come into the land , and use jurisdiction without their leave ; all which put together are a foundation for this power of the princes to erect or translate a patriarchate , it being withall acknowledged that our kings have the same authority in their territories , that the roman emperour had in the empire . § . 19. and the reason of all this is clear , not only from the supreme authority of kings in all sorts of causes , even those of the * church , as well as civil ( as might be proved at large , if here it were needful , and cannot be reasonably so confined , as not to belong to a matter of this nature ) but peculiarly from that which hath been already noted ( and expressely , ordered , can. 17. of the councel of chalcedon even now cited ) of the ecclesiastical division of provinces &c : following the civil , for 1. it being certainly in the power of the king to place his praetoria or courts of assizes , where he please ; and 2. it being the known original of metropoles , and divisions of provinces ( as strabo saith , geogr. l. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , provinces are variously distributed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because the romanes divide them not by tribes or families , but after another manner in relation to the cities , where they set up their courts of assizes — ) and again it being most reasonable , that as any new accident raises one city to a greater populousnesse , or depresses another , so for the convenience of the people one should be made the seat of judicature , the other cease to be so , ( and no man so fit to passe the judgement when this should be , as the king ) and 3. the very same reasons of convenience moving in the church , as in the state , the bishops , and over them metropolitanes and primates having their judicatures , and audiences , which in all reason must be so disposed of , as may be most for the convenience of administration , that they and all under them may do their duties with most facility , and to greatest advantage , and lastly there being no obstacle imaginable from any contrary constitution either of christ or his apostles , against which the prince can be said to offend either directly or interpretatively ( as i suppose is already clear from the refutation of the plea from s. peters universal pastorship ) whensoever he shall think fit to make such changes , the conclusion is rational , as well as evident ; just that it should be so , as well as cleare , that elsewhere it hath oft been so de facto , ( and appointed by the canon of chalcedon de jure ) that the king may erect a primacy when he please ( and so it is certain that king ethelbert at the time of augustines planting the faith , did at canterbury , the seate of his kingdome , imperit sui totius metropolis saith bede l. 1. c 25. ) & conquently remove it from any other place at his pleasure : had it not been for this , there is no reason assignable , why , this nation being in constantines time under three metropolitans , the arch-bishop of york ( and the primacy belonging to that city , as being then the emperours seat , where septimius severus , and constantius chlorus died , and the praetorium of the diocese of britannie ) the arch-bishop of london , and the arch-bishop of caerusk in monmouthshire , either 1. there should be ( as there was ) an addition of two provinces more , valentia , and flavia caesariensis , or 2. the metropolitical power should be removed from london to canterbury ( as also from caerusk to s. david's , as hath been said ) and the primacie from yorke to canterbury . § . 20. now what is thus vested in the regal power , cannot be taken away by forein laws , or by prescription be so alienated , but that it remains perfectly lawful for the prince to resume it . sect ; . 21. that laws made at rome doe not take away the liberty of another national church to make contrary laws thereunto , and that by such obviation no schisme is incurred , we finde delivered in the councel of carthage ( can : 71. according to balsamon's division ) and though the canon be not set down by binius , yet both he and baronius acknowledge , that what was contain'd in that particular canon , was the main occasion of the synod ; and the antiquity thereof is considerable , those canons being made , say baronius and binius , anno 401. § . 22. so likewise that a law ( though made by a general councel and with the consent of all christian princes , yet ) if it have respect to a civil right , may , in this or that nation , be repealed , is the judgment of roger widrington ( or father preston ) in his last rejoinder to fitzherbert c. 11. § . 44. and c. 8. he confirms it by the doctrine of zuarez , l. 2. de leg : c. 19. and the reason of zuarez is , because such a law made at a general meeting of princes , is intrinsecally a civil law ; and hath not force by virtue of the law to binde the subjects of any particular kingdome , or common-wealth , any otherwise then as it is enacted , or received by the governors and subjects of that kingdome . § . 23. and this is affirmed , and extended by balsamon to all canons in general , as the judgment of learned men , in his notes on that 16 th canon of the councel of carthage before cited . § . 24. and for the matter of prescription , the decision of † sayr is worth observing , that in such cases as these , cum praescriptio sit tantùm de jure civili & canonico , when the prescription is neither of the law of nature , nor the divine law , nor the law of nations , but only of the civil and canon law , there non plus se extendit quàm unusquisque supremus princeps in suo regno eam suis legibus extensam esse velit , it extends no farther then every supreme prince in his realm by his laws is supposed to will that it shall be extended , which , saith he , cannot be supposed , in matters of this nature , of exempting subjects from making their appeal to their king , for saith he , non est de mente alicujus principis ut quispiam subditorum possit praescribere quòd ad principem ab eo non appelletur , aut quòd eum coercere non potest , quando ratio & justitia postulat . it is not imaginable to be the minde of any prince , that any of his subjects should be able to prescribe that he is not to appeal to his prince ( but to some other ) or that his prince may not punish him when reason and justice requires . it were easie to apply this distinctly to the confirming of all , that i here pretend , but i shall not thus expatiate . chap. vii . their third evidence from our casting off obedience to the bishop of rome at the reformation . § . 1. upon that one ground laid in the former chapter , the power of kings in general , and particularly ad hunc actum to remove patriarchates ; whatsoever can be pretended against the lawfulnesse of the reformation in these kingdomes , will easily be answered . and therefore supposing the third , and last objection to lie against our reformation , that it was founded in the casting off that obedience to the bishop of rome , which was formerly paid him by our bishops , and people under them , i shall now briefly descend to that , first laying down the matter of fact , as it lies visible in our records , and then vindicating it from all blame of schisme , which according to the premises can any way be thought to adhere to it . § . 2. and first for the matter of fact , it is acknowledged , that in the reigne of king henry viii . the papal ( and with it all forein ) power in ecclesiastical affairs was both by acts of convocation of the clergie , and by statutes or acts of parliament , cast out of this kingdome . the first step or degree hereof was the clergie's synodical recognizing the king , singularem ecclesiae anglicanae protectorem , unicum & supremum dominum — the singular protector , the only and supreme head of the church of england , upon this were built the statutes of 24 hen : viii . prohibiting all appeals to rome , and for the determining all ecclesiasticall suits , and controversies within the kingdome ; the statute of 25 hen : viii . for the manner of electing and consecrating of archbishops and bishops , and another , in the same year , prohibiting the payment of all impositions to the court of rome , and for the obtaining all such dispensations from the see of canterbury , which were formerly procured from the popes of rome , and that of 26 hen : viii . declaring the king to be the supreme head ( which in queen elizabeth's reign was , to avoid mistakes , changed into supreme governour ) of the church of england , and to have all honours and praeeminencies , which were annexed to that title . § . 3. this was in the next place attended with the submission of the clergie to the king , agreed on , first in convocation , and afterward in 25 hen : viii . enacted by parliament , to this purpose , that as it was by the clergie acknowledged that the convocation of the clergie then was , alwaies had been , and ought to be assembled by the kings writ , and as they submitting themselves to the king's majestie had promised in verbo sacerdotis , that they would never from thenceforth presume to attempt , allege , claim , or put in ure , enact , promulge , or exercise any new canons , constitutions , ordinances provincial or other — unlesse the king 's most royal assent may to them be had to make , promulge , & execute the same — so it was now enacted , that none of the clergie should enact , promulge , or execute any such canons , constitutions , and ordinances provincial or synodical , without assent and authority received from the king , upon pain of imprisonment , and fine at the kings pleasure . § . 4. the third and last step of this began with the debate of the vniversities , and most eminent monasteries in the kingdome ; an aliquid authoritatis in hoc regno angliae pontifici romano de jure competat , plusquam alii cuiquam episcopo extero ? whether any authority did of right belong to the bishop of rome in the kingdome of england more then to any other forein bishop ? and upon agitation , it was generally defined in the negative , and so returned testified under their hands and seals . the like was soon after concluded , and resolved by the convocation of the bishops , and all the clergie , and subscribed and confirmed by their corporal oathes : and at that time was written and printed the tract de verâ differentiâ regiae et ecclesiasticae potestatis , set out by the prelates , the chief composers of which were , john stokesly , bishop of london ; cutbert tunstall , bishop of durham ; stephen gardiner , bishop of winchester ; and d r thirlby afterward bishop ; where from the practise of the saxon , and first norman kings they evidence the truth of that negative out of story . and what was thus concluded by the clergie was soon turned into an act of parliament also in 28 hen : viii . called an act extinguishing the authority of the bishop of rome , and prescribing an oath to all officers ecclesiastical , and lay , of renouncing the said bishop and his authority . § . 5. by these three degrees it is acknowledged that the bishops and clergie first , then the king confirming the acts of the convocation , and after making acts of parliament to the same purposes , renounced the authority of the roman see , and cast it out of this island ; and though the first act of the clergie in this were so induced , that it is easie to believe that nothing but the apprehension of dangers which hung over them ( by a praemunire incurred by them ) could probably have inclined them to it , & therefore i shall not pretend that it was perfectly an act of their first will , and choice , but that which the necessity of affairs recommended to them , yet the matter of right being upon that occasion taken into their most serious debate in a synodical way , and at last a fit and commodious expression uniformly pitch'd upon by joynt consent of both houses of the convocation , there is no reason to doubt , but that they did believe what they did professe , the fear being the occasion of their debates , but the reasons or arguments offered in debate , the causes ( as in all charity we are to judge ) of their decision . § . 6. but i shall not lay much weight on that judgment of charity , because if that which was thus determined by king and bishops were falsly determined , then the voluntarinesse , or freenesse of the determination will not be able to justifie it , and on the other side , if the determination were just , then was there truth in it , antecedent to , and abstracted from the determination , and it was their duty so to determine , and crime that they were unwilling to doe it . and therefore the whole difficulty devolves to this one enquiry , whether at that time of the reign of henry viii . the bishop of rome were supreme head , or governour of this church of england , or had any real authority here , which the king might not lawfully remove from him to some other , viz : to the archbishop of canterbury , if he pleased . § . 7. and this is presently determined upon the grounds which have been formerly laid , and confirmed to have truth in them . for the pretensions for the popes supremacy of power among us being by the assertors thereof founded in one of these three , either in his right ( as s. peter's successour ) to the vniversal pastorship , that including his power over england , as a member of the whole ; or 2. by the paternal right which by augustine's planting the gospel among the saxons is thought to belong to the pope ( and his successours ) that sent him ; or 3. in the voluntary concession of some kings ; the two former of these have been largely disproved already , chap. 4 , 5 , and 6. in discourses purposely , and distinctly applied to those pretensions . and for the third , that will appear to have received its determination also , i. by the absolutenesse of the power of our princes , ( to which purpose i shall mention but one passage , that of † g. de heimburg , some two hundred years since in the last words of his tract de injust : vsurp : pap : where speaking of the emperors making oath to the pope , he saith , that this is a submission in him , and a patience above what any other suffers , and proves it by this argument , nam eximius rex angliae , franciae , dux , marchio , non astringitur papae quocunque juramento : factus imperator jurare tenetur secundum decretales eorum fabulosè fictas , ita ut supremus monarcha magis servilis conditionis , quàm quilibet ejus inferior fieri censeatur , the king of england and france , any duke or marquesse of that kingdome is not bound to the pope by any oath , yet the emperour at his creation is thus bound to swear according to the popes decretals fabulously invented , so that the supreme monarch is made to be of a more servile condition then any his inferior prince — . ) and 2. by the rights of kings to remove or erect patriarchates , and will be farther confirmed in the negative , if answer be first given to this dilemma . § . 8. the authority of the pope in this kingdome , which is pretended to be held by the concession of our kings , was either so originally vested in our kings , that they might lawfully grant it , to whom they pleased , pleased , and so did lawfully grant it to the pope ; or it was not thus originally vested in our kings ; if it were not , then was that grant an invalid , null grant , for such are all concessions of that which is not ours to give , presumptions , invasions , robberies in the giver , which devolve no right to the receiver , and then this is a pitiful claim which is thus founded : but if that authority were so vested in the kings of england , that they might lawfully grant it to whom they pleased , ( which is the only way by which the pope can pretend to hold any thing by this title of regal concession ) then certainly the same power remains still vested in the king to dispose it from him to some other as freely , as the same king may upon good causes remove his chancellour , or any other of his officers from his place , and commit it to another ( this way of arguing is made use of by the bishops in convocation , anno chr : 1537. in the book by them intituled [ the institution of a christian man ] ) or if the same power doe not still remain in the king , then is the king's power diminished , and he consequently by this his act , of which we treat , become lesse a king , then formerly he was , and then we know that such acts which make him so , are invalid acts , it being acknowledged to be above the power of the king himself , to divest himself and his successors of any part of his regal power . § . 9. to which purpose it must be observed , 1. that some things are so ours , that we may freely use them , but cannot freely part with them , as all those things , wherein our propriety is not confined to our persons , but intailed on our posterity , and such the regal power is supposed to be ; 2. that as some things which are part of our personal proprieties , are so freely ours to give , that when they are given , they are departed out of our selves , and cannot justly be by us resumed again ( in which case that maxim of the civil law stands good , data eo ipso qu● dantur , fiunt accipientis , what is given , by the very act of being given , becomes the goods of the receiver ) so other things are given to others , so as we doe not part with them our selves , they are as truly , and properly ours , after , as before the concession . § . 10. thus the sun communicates his beams , and with them his warmth and influences , and yet retains all which it thus communicates , and accordingly withdraweth them again , and god the spring of all life , and grace , doth so communicate each of these , that he may , and doth freely withdraw them again , and when he taketh away our breath we die — and thus certainly the king , being the fountain of all power and authority , as he is free to communicate this power to one , so is he equally free to recall , and communicate it to another , and therefore may as freely bestow the power of primate , and chief metropolitan of england , or ( which is all one ) of a patriarch , on the bishop of canterbury , having formerly thought fit to grant it to the bishop of rome , as he or any of his ancestors can be deemed to have granted it to the bishop of rome ; and then as this being by this means evidenced to be no more then an act of regal power , ( which the king might lawfully exercise ) takes off all obligation of obedience in the bishops to the pope , at the first minute , that he is by the king divested of that power , or declared not to have had it de jure , but only to have assumed it formerly ( which freedome from that obedience immediately clears the whole businesse of schisme , as that is a departure from the obedience of the lawful superiour ) so will there not want many weighty reasons , deducible from the antient canons , as well as the maximes of civil government , why the king who may freely place the primacy , where he please , should choose to place it in a bishop and subject of his own nation , rather then in a forein bishop farre removed , and him not only independent from that king , but himself enjoying a principality , or territorie , which it is too apparent how willing he is to enlarge unlimitedly , and to improve the concessions , which are either acknowledged , or pretended to be made him , to that purpose . § . 11. and here it is not amisse to observe , in the reign of queen mary , who was no way favourable to the reformation in points of doctrine and liturgie , and made all speed to repeal what had been done in king edward's time in that matter , yet 1. that she left not the title of supreme head , till the third parliament of her reigne ; and 2. that in the second parliament authority is granted her to make , and prescribe to all such cathedral and collegiate churches , as were erected by henry the viii . such statutes and orders as should seem good to her , and that statute never repealed but expired : 3. that in her third parliament it was with much difficulty obtained , that the supremacie of the pope should be acknowledged , the matter being urged by her , as that which concerned the establishing the matrimonie of her mother , and her legitimation , which depended upon the absolute power of the pope : 4. that in the 4 th year of her reigne , when the pope sent cardinal petow to be his legate in england , and to be bishop of sarisbury , she would not permit him to come into the land , neither could he have that bishoprick , which as it was some check to the pope's absolute supremacy , and an assertion and vindication of the regal power , so being added to the former it will be lesse strange , that this supreme power of the popes should be by the bishops in the reigne of henry viii . disclaimed , and ejected . § . 12. upon this bottome the foundation of reformation being laid in england , the superstructure was accordingly erected by the king and bishops and clergie in convocation , but this not all at once , but by distinct steps and degrees . somewhat in the reigne of this henry the viii . as in the number of the sacraments , the use of the lords prayer &c. in the english tongue , and the translation of the bible , all resolved on in synod , the king which duly assembled it , presiding in it by his vicar general . § . 13. this was much farther advanced in the time of his son edward the vi. who being a childe , and the laws and constitution of this realm committing the exercise of the supreme power in that case , into the hands of a protector , what was thus regularly done by that protector , cannot be doubted to be of the same force , and validity , as if the king had been of age , and done it himself ; or if it should , it would be an unanswerable objection against all hereditary , successive monarchy , a maim in that form of government , which could no way be repaired , there being no amulet in the crown , which secures the life of each king , till his successor be of age , nor promise from heaven that the children of such princes shall , by succeeding to the crown , advance by miracle to the years , and abilities of their parents , so irrational is the scoffe , and exception of some , that what was done in king edward's daies being the acts of a childe is as such to be vilified ▪ and despised . § . 14. in the reign of this prince , many changes were made in the church , and recessions from the doctrines , and practises of rome ; beside that of images , the lawfulnesse of the marriage of the clergie was asserted , a body of an english liturgie formed , and setled for publick use , the eucharist appointed to be administred to the people in both kindes , &c. and though bishop gardner of winchester , and bishop bonner of london made opposition against these changes , and for some misbehaviours herein , were imprison'd , ( and two more moderate , learned men , bishop tunstal of durham , and bishop day of chichester , upon another score ) yet archbishop cranmer , and the rest of the bishops making up the farre greater number , joyned with the supreme power in the reformation . and as it is no great marvell , that there should be some ( so few ) dissenters , so the punishment inflicted on them will not be deemed excessive by any , that shall compare it with the farre severer executions , the fire , and fagot , which were soon after in queen mary's daies inflicted on archbishop cranmer , bishop ridley , and bishop latimer , as the reward of their disputing in the synod against transubstantiation , ( and the like cruelties on multitudes more ) and the exiles , and deprivations , which befell so many others in her reigne ; however this can be no prejudice to the regularity of the reformation in the reigne of king edward , wrought , as hath been said , by the supreme power , with the consent of the major part of bishops . § . 15. that which afterward followed in the beginning of qu. elizabeth's reigne , may be thought more distant , and lesse reconcileable to our pretensions , ( not that of her sex , her being a woman , for so was qu. mary before , which acted so vigorously for the contrary way , and the constitution of our monarchy invests equally either sex in the plenitude of regal power , in sacred , as well as civil affairs , and it was but to raise envie against the reformation that queen elizabeth's sex , as before king edward's non-age hath by some been thought fit to be mention'd , and cannot by any sober judgment be admitted to have any force in it ) but because , as it is from our histories more pertinently objected , most of the bishops were by her divested of their dignities , and new created in their stead , to this therefore in the last place , i must apply my self to give satisfaction . and 1. § . 16. in this matter , as much as concerns the ordination of those new bishops , that it was performed regularly , according to the antient canons , each by the imposition of the hands of three bishops , hath been evidently set down out of the records , and vindicated by m r mason in his booke de minist : anglic : and may there be view'd at large , if the reader want satisfaction in that point . § . 17. as for the second remaining part of the objection which alone is pertinent to this place , it will receive answer by these degrees , first that the death of cardinal pool archbishop of canterbury , falling neer upon the death of her predecessor queen mary , it was very regular for queen elizabeth to assigne a successor to that see , then vacant , archbishop parker ; 2 dly , that those bishops , which in queen mary's daies had been exiled , and deprived , and had survived that calamity , were with all justice restored to their dignities ; 3 dly , that the bishops by her deprived , and divested of their dignities , were so dealt with , for refusing to take the oath of supremacy , formed and enjoyned in the daies of henry the viii . and in the first parliament of this queen revived , and the statutes concerning it restored to full force , before it was thus imposed on them . so that for the justice of the cause of their deprivation , it depends immediatly upon the right and power of the supreme magistrate to make laws , to impose oathes for the securing his government , and to inflict the punishments , prescribed by those laws , on the disobedient , but originally upon the truth of that decision of the bishops , and clergie , and vniversities , in the reigne of henry the viii . that no authority belonged in this kingdome of england to the bishop of rome , more then to any other forein bishop . the former of these i shall be confident to look on as an undoubted truth , in the maintenance of which all government is concerned , and hath nothing , peculiar to our pretensions , which should suggest a vindication of it in this place , and the second hath , i suppose , been sufficiently cleared in the former chapters of this discourse , which have examined all the bishop of romes claims to this supremacy , and both these grounds being acknowledged ( or , till they be invalidated , or disproved , supposed ) to have truth , and force in them , the conclusion will be sufficiently induced , that there was no injustice in that act of the queens , which divested those bishops , which thus refused to secure her government , or to approve their fidelity to their lawful ▪ soveraign . § . 18. fourthly , that those bishops being thus deprived , it was most regular , and necessary , and that against which no objection is imaginable , ( that of their due ordination being formerly cleared ) that other bishops should be nominated , and advanced to those vacant sees , and that what should be for the future acted by those new bishops in convocation was regular , synodical , and valid beyond all exception in respect of the formality of it . § . 19. fiftly , that as by the vniform and joynt consent of these bishops thus constituted a declaration of certain principal articles of religion was agreed on , and set out by order of both archbishops , metropolitans , and the rest of the bishops , for the vnity of doctrine , to be taught , and holden of all parsons , vicars , and curates &c. and this not before the third year of that queens reigne , so before this time there had not been , as farre as appears , any debate in any former convocation of that queens reigne concerning religion ( only an offer of a disputation betwixt eight clergie-men on each side , which came to nothing ) but all done by the parliaments restoring what had been debated , and concluded by former synods , in the reigns of king henry the eight , and edward the sixt , without any new deliberation in any present synod . by this means were revived the statutes for the regal supremacy , as also of the book of common-prayer , as it was in the time of edward the sixt , ( with few alterations ) which included the abolition of the romish missalls . and so all this again , as farre as it concerned queen elizabeth's part in the reformation , is regularly superstructed on the forementioned foundation of regal supremacy ( with the concurrence , and advise of synods ) which hath been in the former part of this discourse ( i hope , sufficiently ) vindicated . § . 20. and that being granted , it cannot be here necessary , or pertinent to descend to the consideration of each several matter of the change thus wrought in this church , either as branches of the reformation , or under the name , or title of it . for our present enquirie being no farther extended , then this , whether the true church of england , as it stands by laws established , have in reforming been guilty of schisme , as that signifies in the first place a recession , and departure from the obedience of our lawful superiours , and this being cleared in the negative , by this one evidence , that all was done by those , to whom , and to whom only , the rightful power legally pertained , viz : the king , and bishops of this nation , supposing ( as now regularly we may , having competently proved it , and answered all the colours , that have been offered against it ) that the pope had no right to our obedience , and consequently that our departure from him is not a departure from our obedience to our superiours , it is presently visible , that all other matters will belong to some other heads of discourse , and consequently must be debated upon other principles , all variation from the church of rome in point of doctrine if it should ( as i believe it will never ) be proved to be unjust , falling under the head of heresie , not of schisme ; and for acts of sacrilege , and the like impieties ( as certainly henry the eighth , and some others , cannot be freed from such ) they are by us as freely charged upon the actors , as by any romanist they can be , but yet sacrilege is no more schisme , then it is adulterie , and the church , on which one sin hath been committed , cannot be from thence proved to be guilty of every other . chap. viii . of the second sort of schisme , as that is an offence against mutual charity , this divided into three species , and the first here examined . § . 1. but beside that first species of schisme , as it is an offence against the subordination , which christ hath by himself and his apostles setled in the church , ( from the guilt of which i have hitherto indevoured to vindicate our church ) another was taken notice of , as it signifies an offence against the mutual unity , and peace , and charity , which christ left among his disciples ; and to that i must now proceed , as farre as the accusations of the romanist give us occasion to vindicate our innocence . § . 2. and for method's sake , this branch of schisme may be subdivided into three species . the first is a breach in the doctrines , or traditions , a departure from the unity of the faith , which was once delivered to the saints ; under that head also comprehending the institutions of christ , of his apostles , and of the vniversal church of the first and purest ages , whether in government , or other the like observances and practises : the second is an offence against external peace and communion ecclesiastical : the third and last is the want of that charity , which is due from every christian to every christian . beside these i cannot foresee any other species of schisme , and therefore the vindicating our reformation from all grounds of charge of any of these three , will be the absolving the whole task undertaken in these sheets . § . 3. for the first it may be considered either in the bullion , or in the coyn , in the grosse , or in the retail , either as it is a departure from those rules appointed by christ for the founding and upholding his truth in the church , this vnity of doctrine &c. or else as it is the asserting any particular branch of doctrine , contrary to christs , and the ( apostolical , pure ) churches establishment . § . 4. and here it is first suggested by the romanist , that by casting out the authority of the bishop of rome , we have cast off the head of all christian vnity , and so must needs be guilty of schisme in this first respect . to which the answer is obvious , 1. that that bishop of rome was never appointed by christ to be the head of all christian unity , or that church to be the conservatory ( for ever ) of all christian truth , any more then any other bishop , or church of the apostles ordaining , or planting ; and whatever can be pretended for the contrary will be easily answered from the grounds already laid , and cleared in the former part of this discourse concerning the vniversal pastorship of s. peter's successors , which must not be here so unnecessarily repeated . § . 5. 2 dly , that the way provided by christ , and his apostles for the preserving the unity of the faith , &c. in the church , is fully acknowledged by us , and no way supplanted by our reformation . that way is made up of two acts of apostolical providence , first their resolving upon some few heads of special force , and efficacie to the planting of christian life through the world , and preaching , and depositing them in every church of their plantation . 2. their establishing an excellent subordination of all inferior officers of the church to the bishop in every city , of the bishops in every province to their metropolitanes , of the metropolitanes in every region or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to patriarchs , or primates , allowing also among these such a primacie of order , or dignity , as might be proportionable to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the scripture , and agreeable to what is by the antient canons allowed to the bishop of rome ; and this standing subordination sufficient for all ordinary uses , and when there should be need of extraordinary remedies , there was then a supply to be had by congregating councels , provincial , patriarchal , general , as hath formerly been shewed . and all this , it is most certain , asserted , and acknowledged by every true son of the church of england , as zealously , as is pretended by any romanist . and from hence , by the way , that speech of the learned and excellent hugo grotius ( which i discern to be made use of by the romanists , and look'd on with jealousie by others ) will , i suppose , receive its due importance , and interpretation , in his rivet : apologet : discuss : p. 255. restitutionem christianorum in unum idémque corpus &c. § . 6. as for the subjection ( and dependence ) of this church to the monarchick power of the bishop of rome , this will never be likely to tend to the unity of the whole body , unlesse first all other churches of christians paid that subjection too , and were obliged , and so by duty morally ascertain'd alwaies to continue it ( which it is evident the eastern churches had not done long before the time of our pretended departure ) and 2. unlesse the bishop of rome were in probability able to administer that vast province , so as would be most to the advantage of the whole body , for which whether he be fitly qualified or no , as it is not demonstrable in the causes , so is it to be looked on , as a politick probleme , the truth of which belongs to prudent persons , and and such as are by god intrusted with the flock to judge of , i. e. to the princes , the nursing fathers of every church , who are prudentially , and fatherly to determine for themselves and those that are under them , what is most ordinable to that end , and cannot be obliged to conclude , farther then the motives or premises will bear , to decree what they doe not reasonably , and cordially believe . § . 7. lastly , for the particular doctrines wherein we are affirmed by the romanists to depart from the vnity of the faith , and so by departing from the unity , to be schismatical , as heretical by departing from the faith , this must be contested by a strict survey of the particular doctrines , wherein as we make no doubt to approve our selves to any that will judge of the apostolical doctrine and traditions by the scriptures , and consent of the first 300 years , or the four general councels , ( the most competent witnesses of apostolical traditions ) so we shall secure our selves of our innocence in this behalf , by that principle acknowledged in our church , and owned , as the rule by which we are concluded in any debate , or controversie : that whatever is contrary to the doctrine , or practises of those first and purest ages , shall by us ( assoon as it thus appears ) be renounced , and disclaimed also . which resolution of rulinesse , and obedience , will , i suppose , conserve us in the unity of the faith , and render us approveable to god , though our ignorance ( thus unaffected ) should betray us to some misunderstandings of those first times , and be an instrument much more probable to lead us into all truth , then the supposed infallibility of the church of rome can be imagined to be , which as it leaves the proudest presumer really as liable to error , as him that acknowledgeth himself most fallible , so it ascertains him to persevere incorrigible whether in the least , or greatest error , which by fault , or frailty he shall be guilty of . § . 8. this consideration of the humble , docible temper of our church ( together with our professed appeal to those first and purest times , to stand or fall , as by those evidences we shall be adjudged ) as it necessarily renders it our infelicity , not our crime , if in judging of christ's truth we should be deemed to erre , so may it reasonably supersede that larger trouble of the reader , in this place , which the view and examination of the severals would cost him , it being thus farre evident , that it is our avowed wish and our care ( should it be denied to be our lot ) a special mark of the church of england's reformation , to preserve the vnity of the apostolical faith and primitive practises , as intire , as we would have done christ's body or garment , and the probability being not weak on our side , that the fact of the crucifying souldiers which hath so much of our abhorrence and detestation , shall never be our choice , our known , or wilfull guilt , or if it be , that we so farre recede from our profession . chap. ix . the second species of this schisme examined , as it is an offence against external peace , or communion ecclesiastical . § . 1. now for the second branch of this second sort of schism , as it is an offence against external peace or communion ecclesiastical . this cannot with any colour be charged on us , of whom these 6 things are manifest , and that by the tenure of our reformation , 1. that we have alwaies retained the form of government ▪ in , and under which the apostles founded ecclesiastical assemblies , or communion , viz : that of the bishop , and his inferiour officers in every church , and so in that respect are , in ignatius his phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , within the altar , have no part of that breach of ecclesiastical communion upon us , which consists in casting out that order . 2. that as we maintain that order , so we regularly submit to the exercise of it , acknowledge the due authority of these governors , profess canonical obedience to them , submit to their censures , and decrees , and give our selves up to be ruled by them in all things that belong to their cognizance secundum deum , according to god. 3. that the circumstances which are necessary to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the assembling our selves together for the publick worship , whether 1. that of place , ( our churches consecrated to those offices ) or 2. that of time , ( the lords day , and other primitive festivals , and fasts , and , in their degree , every day of the week ) or 3. that of forms of prayer , and praises , celebration of sacraments , and sacramentals , preaching , catechizing , &c. or 4. that of ceremonies , such as the practise of the primitive church hath sent down recommended to us ; or lastly , that of discipline to binde all these performances upon every member of the church in his office , or place , are all entered into our confessions , setled by article , as part of our establishment , and so the want of either , or all of those are not imputable to our reformation . § . 2. fourthly , that in every of these three , whatsoever the romanist requires us to adde farther to that which we voluntarily , and professedly receive , ( 1. the supreme , transcendent , monarchick power of the pope , 2. the acknowledgment of , and obedience to his supremacy , 3. the use of more ceremonies , festivals , &c. ) is usurpation , or imposition of the present romanists , absolutely without authority , or precedent from the antient , primitive church , from whom we are so unwilling to divide in any thing , that we choose a conformity with them , rather then with any later modell , and if by receding from the ordo romanus in any particular , we doe not approve our selves to come neerer to the first , and purest times , it is the avow'd profession of our church , the wish , and purpose of it , which i may justly style part of our establishment , to reduce , and restore that , ( whatsover it is ) which is most pure , and primitive in stead of it . § . 3. fiftly , that as we exclude no christian from our communion , that will either filially , or fraternally embrace it with us , being ready to admit any to our assemblies , that acknowledge the foundation laid by christ , and his apostles , so we as earnestly desire to be admitted to the like freedome of external communion with all the members of all other christian churches , as oft as occasion makes us capable of that blessing of the one heart , and one lip , and would most willingly , by the use of the antient method of literae communicatoriae , maintain this communion with those , with whom we cannot corporally assemble , and particularly with those which live in obedience to the church of rome . § . 4. sixtly , that the onely hindrances that interpose and obstruct this desired freedome of external communion , are wholly imputable to the romanists . § . 5. first , their excommunicating , and separating from their assemblies all that maintain communion with the church of england , which we know was done by bull from the pope about the tenth year of q. elizabeth ( before which time those english , which had not joyned in our reformation , might , and did come to our assemblies , and were never after rejected by us , but upon their avowed contumacie against the orders of our church , which consequently brought the censures on them ) and to that it is visibly consequent , that we that were cast out , cannot be said to separate , as in the former part of this discourse hath been demonstrated . § . 6. secondly , their imposing such conditions on their communion ( belief of doctrines , and approbation of practises , which we neither believe , nor approve of , and are ready to contest and maintain our negatives , by grounds that all good christians ought to be concluded by ) that we cannot without sinning , or seeming to sin against conscience , without wilfull falling on one side , or dissembling and unsound confession on the other side , or at least the scandal of one of these , accept of their communion upon such conditions , as hath formerly been demonstrated also . § . 7. and in this matter it were very well worthy our considering , how farre the articles of our church of england proceed in accord with the present roman doctrines and practises , and in what particulars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we cannot perswade our selves to consent to them , and then to offer it to the vmpirage of any rational arbitrator , whether we that unfeignedly professe to believe so much and no more , nor to be convinced by all the reasons , and authorities , proofs from scripture , or the first christian writers , ( those of the first three hundred years ) or the four general councels ) produced by them ( being in full inclination and desire of minde , ready to submit upon conviction ) are in any reason , or equity , or according to any example , or precept of christ , or his apostles , or the antient , primitive church , to be required to offer violence to our mindes , and to make an unsound profession , or else ( for that one guilt of not doing so ) to be rejected as hereticks , and denied the benefit of christian communion , which we heartily desire to extend and propagate to them which deny it to us . all this thus put together , and applied to this present matter will certainly vindicate us from all appearance of guilt of this second branch of the second sort of schisme . chap. x. the third species of this schism , as an offence against that charity due from every christian to every christian , examined . § . 1. lastly , as schism is an offence against that charity which is due from every christian to every christian , so it will be best distributed ( according to what we see noted by by the apostle , rom. 14. in the jewish , and gentile christians ) into the judging , and the despising of others , either of which was , if not formally schism , yet soon improveable into it , when it would not be repressed by the apostles admonitions , the jewish christians we know judged , and damned all that would not observe the mosaical law , and would not associate , or communicate with the gentiles , and the like height diotrephes , and some of the gentile believers , who began with the other branch , that of vilifying the weak jew , at last arrived to , not receiving , forbidding to receive , and casting out the brethren , 3 joh. 10. and whether the romanists or we , are thus guilty , will soon be discernible . § . 2. for the former , that of judging , and so separating from their brethren ( if yet we may be allowed that title ) it is evident by their own acknowledgment , how guilty they are , and how guiltlesse we . § . 3. it hath been a special motive , and argument to gain proselytes to their party for some years , that by our confession there is salvation to be had among them , but in their judgment no possible hope of it for us . this weapon of their's used so studiously against us , to anticipate and prejudge , in general , whatsoever can be particularly said to assert our doctrines , and practises , will certainly be as usefull in our hands , as goliah's sword in david's to give this wound ( i wish it may not prove as fatal ) to our vaunting enemies : for certainly , if there be any truth in that motive , then are they professedly the men , that judge their brethren , and as confessedly we the men , that doe not judge them . and if s. cyprian's rule be true ( who had as well considered the nature of schism , and as diligently armed the christians of his age against it , and given us as sure rules to judge by , in this matter , as any ) that they that maintain any difference in opinion against other christians , must , if they will avoid the evil of schism , manage it with this temper ( neminem damnantes , neminem à communione nostrâ arcentes ) never condemn any , or forbid them our communion , then is the schism ( because the uncharitableness ) on their parts , not on ours . and it is not the saying , we are hereticks , and so certainly excluded salvation , schismaticks , and so out of the church , the way to salvation , that can give this sanguinarie judgment any meeker a title ; for that we are such , being as much denied , as any thing , and that negative offered to be proved , and vindicated by all those evidences , by which any matter of doctrine , ( from whence this question depends ) can duly be cleared , this unproved affirmation , that we are such , is certainly a petitio principii , a begging of the question , a supposing that in the debate , which they know we are as farre from confessing , as they from having proved , and that is the most certain proof , that such judging is uncharitable ; i wish there were not many other as pregnant indications of it . § . 4. and for that of despising or setting at nought the brother , which is the ap ostles argument also that they walk not charitably , and the effect whereof is evident , the casting them out of the church , if the cause may be concluded by the effect , the guilt lies on the romanists side , not on ours ( as hath formerly appeared ) and truly we are so sensible of the many prepossessions , and strong prejudices , which by the advantage of education , the prescribed credulity to all that the church shall propose , the doctrine of infallibility , the shutting up the scriptures in an unknown language , the impossibility that the multitude should search ▪ or examine tradition with their own eyes , the prosperous flourishing estate of the roman church ( and the persecutions , and calamities ▪ and expressions of god's displeasure on the church of england ) the literal sound of [ hoc est corpus meum ] for their principal ( espoused ) doctrine of transubstantiation , and som other the like means , are infused into the multitude of men and women , that are brought up without any knowledge of ours , in a firm belief of all their pretensions , that we are as farre from setting them at nought , or despising them , as from that ( which by their doing it first is made impossible for us to be guilty of ) the casting them out of the church . § . 5. i foresee not any objection , which may give me temptation , or excuse farther to enlarge on this matter , and professe not to know any other branch of schism , or colour of fastening that guilt upon our church , made use of by any , which hath not been either prevented in the grounds of this discourse , or distinctly taken notice of , and competently vindicated , as farre as the design'd brevity would permit . chap. xi . concerning the present persecution of the church of england , and the advantages sought from thence . § . 1. our establishment being thus freed from schism , i shall not now entertain my self with any fear , that the persecution , which we are under , will involve us in it . yet can i not but take notice of the style , that some romanists have in these last years , on this occasion , chosen to make use of , calling us [ the late church of england ] the interpretation whereof is to my understanding this , that the calamities , under which now we suffer , have made us cease to be a church : and therefore having learned , and abundantly experimented , what scandal the crosse hath alwaies carried along with it , how willing enemies are to take advantage , and ground arguments on afflictions , and how ordinary it is for friends , to take impressions from such sensible , carnal motives , and being secured by the storie of the antient gnosticks , that it is neither scandalous excesse of fear , nor want of charity , to think it possible , that this , as other antient heresies , may now as in a platonick year ( if not carefully warded ) return on us , as in a revolution , i shall therefore conclude this paper with an attempt to remove this prejudice ; the utmost whereof being formed into an objection , is this , that it is absolutely necessary to communicate with some one visible church , that now the church of england is not such , and consequently that it must be cast off , and the roman church so illustriously visible , be taken up in stead of it . § . 2. to this reserve i shall make my returns by these degrees , first that by the making this objection , or drawing any argument against any member of the church of england , from the present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or improsperous circumstances of affairs , it must be supposed , that twenty years since , this person , the supposed subject of discourse , living regularly in this church , under his superiours , was not then chargeable w th this crime of not communicating with a visible church . § . 3. this consequent i shall not be so much my own flatterer as to think it will be allowed me ▪ by the romanist , who will , i know , at another time accuse the whole church of england ( ever since the reformation ) of schism from the catholick church , and make the communicating with it 20 years since , as dangerous as now the not communicating with any : but the reason of my laying this foundation is , to shew the vanity of the present objection , for if the church of england 20 years since , were not a church , but a society of schismaticks , not a particular church ( which , if so , must be a part , or member of the vniversal , and such it is not , if it be truly separated from that body , in the unity of which it is obliged to remain ) but a separated , and torn off , and so a livelesse , ejected branch , then whatsoever hath now befallen us , and the consequence of that , the supposed impossibility of cōmunicating with the church of england , will but leave us where we were , the impossibility of communicating with a schismatical society , being not chargeable on us , as a crime , by them , who make the communicating with all such societies so damnable ; and therefore i say , to the making this any objection , 't is necessary , that that be supposed , which i have for that cause laid as my foundation , that 20 years since a member of the english church was not under this guilt of not communicating with some one visible church ; and if then he were not , ( or , for discourse sake , be by the objecter supposed not to have been ) then it infallibly , and irrefragably follows ( which is the second proposition ) that he that 20 years since was not under this guilt of not communicating — is either not guilty of it now , or else hath voluntarily committed or omitted somewhat , which commission or omission hath been the contracting of this guilt . for that somewhat , which hath not been his choise , shall become his crime , that what hath been his saddest part of infelicity , the evil against which he hath most industriously contended , should be accounted his offence ▪ when it is his punishment , i shall not fear will be affirmed by any . § . 4. thirdly then , the businesse is brought to this issue , that that person , which is the subject of our discourse ( he that 20 years since , was a member of the church of england ) be now proved by some commission or omission of his , voluntarily to have contracted this guilt , or else be absolved , and freed from it ; if he have contracted it , it must be by some irregularity of actions , contrary to the standing rule and canons of this church ; or by disobedience to some commands of his ecclesiastical superiors ; and as in neither of these i shall excuse any that hath been guilty , so if , being not fallen under the actual censures of the church for it , he now timely and sincerely return with contrition , and reformation , i shall hope it will not be imputed to him ; but however this cannot be insisted on by the objecter , because i speak , and so must he , of him that hath lived regularly ( not of him that hath not ) and of him 't is apparent , that all that he hath done , is , to adhere to his former principles , when others have not , to have testified his constancy with ( not only venturing but ) actually losing either possessions , or liberty ( and the benefit of ecclesiastical assemblies ) rather then he would joyn , or appear to joyn with schismaticks , when others have made all worldly advantages by the rupture ; in a word , that he hath been patient , and not fainted ; and never departed from his rule , though it have cost him dear to stick fast to it ; and i hope no body will be so uncharitable , as to grieve , and gall him , whom god hath thus suffered to be chastised , upon no other provocation , but this , his having been thus afflicted and persecuted . this is too clear a truth to need confirming , and yet this is the utmost , that it can be driven to , supposing the most that the objection can be imagined to suppose , viz : that the church of england is now invisible . § . 5. but then in the fourth place , it must be added , that as yet , blessed be god , the church of england is not invisible ; it is still preserved in bishops and presbyters rightly ordained , and multitudes rightly baptized , none of which have fallen off from their profession ; and the only thing imaginable to be objected in this point , being this , that the schism hath so farre been extended by the force , that many , if not most churches parochial are filled by those , who have set up a new , or a no-form of worship , and so that many men cannot any otherwise ▪ then in private families , serve god , after the church-way , that sure will be of little weight , when the romanists are remembred to be the objecters , who cannot but know , that this is the only way , that they have had of serving god in this kingdome , these many years , and that the night-meetings of the primitive christians in dens and caves are as pertinent to the justifying of our condition , as they can be of any , and when 't is certain , that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the forsaking of the assemblies , heb. 10.25 . is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , our wilfull fault v. 26. but only our unhappy lot ▪ who are forced either not to frequent the assemblies , or else to incourage ( & incurre the scandal of seeming to approve ) the practises of those that have departed from the church . that we doe not decline order , or publick communion ▪ and consequently are not to be charged for not enjoying those benefits of it , which we vehemently thirst after , is evident by the extensive nature ▪ of our persecution , the same tempest having with us thrown out all order , and form , bishops , and liturgie together , and to that curstnesse of theirs , and not to any obstinatenesse , or unreconcileablenesse of ours ( which alone were the guilt of non-communion ) is all that unhappinesse of the constant sons of the present english church to be imputed , in which alone this whole objection is founded . § . 6. i cannot discern any farther appearance of difficulty in this matter , and therefore shall no farther lengthen this appendage , then by offering it to the consideration of the indifferent reader , whether this objection can ever in future times be improveable into a charge against us , or our posterity , as long as either bishops stand , and continue to ordain among us , or it is not our faults that they doe not stand . to which purpose it may be remembred ▪ what befell the jewes whether under the zelots fury , or the romans yoke ; the former threw out the lawfull successive high priests , and priests of the sons of aaron , and put into those sacred offices the most ignorant rusticks , some so void of all degree of knowledge , saith josephus , that they knew not what the very word [ priest ] signified . the roman conquerours by their procurators put in annually whom they pleased to choose ( without consideration of the aaronical line ) into the chief priest's office ; i shall here demand of any , whether ( supposing and granting it as undeniable , that the zelots were formally schismaticks , or with some improvement , in josephus his style 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , seditious ) there can be any ground of reason , or equity , to involve , or conclude under the same guilt those that lived under those imposed , usurping high priests , supposing those inferiors to have been as farre from consenting to the continuance , as to the beginning of such usurpation , and that the circumstances were such , that they lay not under the appearance of doing , what they did not , and so had not the scandal , any more , then the reality of that guilt . the reader , i suppose , will be able to answer this quaere to himself , and supersede all necessity of making up the parallel . § . 7. and then i have at this time no farther exercise for him , but that he will joyn in ardent prayers with me , that god will restore that which is lost , reduce that heavenly grace , and incomparable blessing of christian peace and holy communion among all , that have received the honour of being called by his name , that we may all minde the same thing , fix the same common designes , love , and aid , and promote one anothers good , unanimously glorifie him here with one tongue , and heart , that we may all be glorified with him , and sing joynt hosannah's , and hallelujah's to him to all eternity . amen . errata . page 42. line 3. dele ) p. 73. li. 9. lege s. peter , so — p. 81. marg : li. 12. lege 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 85. l. 24. lege where as p. 91. li. 4. lege 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 107. li. 2. for third lege second p. 141. li. 25. for quae re : quo p. 157. li. 3. lege that the the contents . chap. i. an introduction , the danger , and sin of schism . page 1 chap. ii. what schism us , together with some general considerations thereon . 12 chap. iii. the several sorts of schism . 31 chap. iv. the pretended evidences of the romanist against the church of england examined , and first that from the bishop of rome's supremacy by christ's donation to s. peter . 66 chap. v. the evidences from the bishop of romes succeeding s. peter examined . 92 chap. vi. their second plea from the bishop of rome having planted christianity among us . 107 chap. vii . their third evidence from our casting off obedience to the bishop of rome at the reformation . 132 chap. viii . of the second sort of schism , as that is an offence against mutual charity , this divided into three species , and the first here examined . 155 chap. ix . the second species of this schism examined , as it is an offence against external peace , or communion ecclesiastical . 163 chap. x. the third species of this schism , as an offence against that charity due from every christian to every christian , examined . 169 chap. xi . concerning the present persecution of the church of england , and the advantages sought from thence . 174 the end . a catalogue of some books printed for richard royston at the angel in ivie-lane , london . a paraphrase and annotations upon all the books of the new testament by henry hammond d. d. in fol. the practical catechisme , with all other english treatises of henry hammond d. d. in two volumes in 4o. dissertationes quatuor , quibus episcopatus jura ex s. scripturis & primaeva antiquitate adstruuntur , contra sententiam d. blondelli & aliorum . authore henrico hammond . in 4o. a letter of resolution of six quaere's , in 12o. the names of several treatises and sermons written by jer. taylor d. d. viz. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a course of sermons for all the sundaies of the year ; together with a discourse of the divine institution , necessity , sacrednesse , and separation of the office ministerial , in fol. 2. episcopacy asserted , in 4o. 3. the history of the life and death of the ever-blessed jesus christ , 2 d edit . in fol. 4. the liberty of prophesying , in 4o. 5. an apology for authorized and set-forms of liturgie ; in 4o. 6. a discourse of baptisme , its institution and efficacy upon all beleivers , in 4o. 7. the rule and exercises of holy living , in 12o. 8. the rule and exercises of holy dying , in 12o. 9. a short catechisme for institution of young persons in the christian religion , in 12o. 10. the reall presence and spirituall of christ in the blessed sacrament proved against the doctrine of transubstantiation , in 8o. certamen religiosum , or a conference between the late king of england , and the late lord marquis of worcester concerning religion , at ragland castle ; together with a vindication of the protestant cause , by chr. cartwright in 4o. the psalter of david , with titles and collects according to the matter of each psalm , by the right honourable chr. hatton , in 12o. boanerges and barnabas , or judgement and mercy for wounded and afflicted souls , in several soliloquies , by francis quarles , in 12o. the life of faith in dead times , by chr. hudson in 12o. motives for prayer upon the seven dayes of the week , by sir richard baker knight , in 12o. the guide unto true blessedness , or a body of the doctrine of the scriptures , directing man to the saving knowledge of god , by sam. crook , in 12o. six excellent sermons upon several occasions , preached by edward willan vicar of hoxne , in 4o. the dipper dipt , or the anabaptists duck'd and plung'd over head and ears , by daniel featly d. d. in 4o. hermes theologus , or a divine mercury : new descants upon old records , by theoph. wodnote , in 12o. philosophical elements , concerning government and civil society : by thomas hobbs of malmesbury , in 12o. an essay upon statius , or the five first books of publ. papinius statius his thebais , by tho. stephens school-master in s. edmonds-bury , in 8o. nomenclatura brevis anglo-latino graeca in usum scholae westmonasteriensis , per f. gregory , in 8o. grammatices graecae enchiridion in usum scholae collegialis wigorniae , in 8o. a discourse of holy love , by sir geo. strode knight , in 12o. the saints honey-comb full of divine truths , by rich. gove preacher of henton s. gorge in somersetshire , in 8o. devotion digested , into several discourses and meditations upon the lords most holy prayer : together with additional exercitations upon baptism , the lords supper , heresies , blasphemy , the creatures , sin , the souls pantings after god , the mercies of god , the souls complaint of its absence from god ; by peter samwaies , fellow lately resident in trinity college , cambridge , in 12o. of the division between the english and romish church upon reformation , by hen. fern d. d. in 12o. directions for the profitable reading of the scriptures , by john white m. a. in 8o. the exemplary lives and memorable acts of 9. the most worthy women of the world , 3 jews , 3 gentiles , 3 christians , by tho. heywood , in 4o. the saints legacies , or a collection of promises out of the word of god , in 12o. judicium universitatis oxoniensis de solemni lega & foedere , juramento negativo &c. in 8o. certain sermons and letters of defence and resolution to some of the late controversaries of our times by jasper mayne d. d. in 4o. janua linguarum reserata , sive omnium scientiarum & linguarum seminarium , auctore cl. viro j. a. com●nio , in 8o. a treatise concerning divine providence , very seasonable for all ages , by tho. morton bishop of duresme , in 8o. animadversions upon mr. hobbs his leviathan , with some observations upon sir walter rawleighs history of the world , by alex. rosse , in 12o. fifty sermons preached by that learned and reverend divine john donne , in fol. wits-common-wealth , in 12o. the banquet of jests new and old , in 12o. balzac's letters the fourth part , in 8o. quarles virgin widow a play , in 4o. solomons recantation , in 4o. by francis quarles . amesii antisynodalia , in 12o. christ's commination against scandalizers , by john tombes in 12o. dr. stuart's answer to fountain's letter , in 4o. a tract of fortifications , with 22 brasse cuts , in 4o. dr. griffiths sermon preached at s. pauls , in 4o. blessed birth-day , printed at oxford , in 8o. a discourse of the state ecclesiastical , in 4o. an account of the church catholick where it was before the reformation , by edward boughen d. d. in 4o. an advertisement to the jury-men of england touching witches , written by the author of the observations up ▪ mr. hobbs leviathan , in 4o . episcopacy and presbytery considered , by hen. fern d. d. in 4o. a sermon preached at the isle of wight before his majesty , by hen. fern d. d. in 4o . the commoners liberty or the english-mans birth-right , in 4o . an expedient for composing differences in religion , in 4o. a treatise of self-denial , in 4o. the holy life and death of the late vi-countesse falkland in 12o. certain considerations of present concernment : touching this reformed church of england , by hen. fern , in 12o. englands faithful reprover and monitour , in 12o. newly published , the grand conspiracy of the members against the minde , of jews against their king. as it hath been delivered in four sermons , by john allington , b. d. in 12o. the quakers questions objected against the ministers of the gospel , and many sacred acts and offices of religion , with brief answets thereunto : together with a discourse of the holy spirit his workings and impressions on the souls of men , by r. sherlock b. d. in 8o. now in the presse , of fundamentals in a notion referring to practise , by h. hammond , d. d. in 12o. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a45426-e120 two concernments of al christians . practise of christianity . propagating of it . what is to be done toward the latter . the chief branches of the former , considered in society . charity . obedience . paternal exercise of ecclesiastical power . the contrariety of schisme to the doctrine of christ . the fathers censures of it . (a) 1 cor. 3.4 . jude 19. see fulgentius ad mon : l 2. (b) quisquis in ecclesiâ gratiam consecutus , ab ecclesiâ exierit , reus sibi futurus est , i. e. ipse sibi quod pereat imputaturus ; quod apostolus explanat , docens haereticum vitandum esse , ut à semetipso damnatū cypr : ep : 76. poenas quas meruerant pependerunt , ut à nobis non ejecti ultro se ejecerent , de ecclesiâ sponte se pellerent , ep : 40. quomodo te à tot gregibus scidisti ? exscidisti enim teipsum . firmilian : ad cypr : ep : 75. (a) sciat se postea ad ecclesiam redire , & cum episcopis & plebe christi communicare non posse . ep : 40. aversandus est talis atque fugiendus quisquis fuerit ab ecclesiâ separatus . ibid. de unit : eccles : (b) hanc ecclesiae unitatem qui non tenet , tenere se fidem credit ? cypr : de unit : eccles : dum conventicula sibi diversa constituunt , veritatis caput atque originem reliquerunt . ibid. fidem destruit , pro fide perfidus . ibid. (c) schisma non faciendum , etiamsi in unâ fide & eâdem traditione permaneat qui recedit . cypr : testim : l. 3. c. 86. (d) quam ver● dilectionem custodit & cogitat , qui discordiae furore vesanus ecclesiam scindit , pacem turbat , charitatem dissipat . cypr : de unit : eccles : arma ille contra ecclesiam portat . ibid. (e) quisquis ab ecclesia segregatus adulterae jungitur , à promissis ecclesiae separatur . cypr : de unit : eccl : habere jam non potest deum patrem , qui ecclesiam non habet matrem . ibid. quomodo potest ei cum aliquo convenire , cui cum corpore ipsius ecclesiae , & cum vestra fraternitate non convenit ? quomodo possunt duo aut tres in nomine christi colligi , quos constat à christo & ab ejus evangelio separari ? ibid : extra ecclesiam consistens , & contra pacem & dilectionem christi faciens , inter adversarios — computetur . ep : 76. (f) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ignat : ep : ad eph : audet precem alteram illicitis vocibus facere , dominicae hostiae veritatem per falsa sacrificia profanare ? cypr : de unit : eccl : vnum manifestum est apud omnes spiritus sancti gratiam non esse , nec corum sacrificiis posse deo placere , neque spiritualis gratiae sanctificationem sacrificiis corum tribui , qui offerunt ab ecclesiastici corporis unitate disjuncti , solius enim ecclesia deus delectatur sacrificiis , quòd sacrificium deo facit unit as spiritualis , ubi pacis tenacitas fraternam servat in charitate concordiam . fulgent : ad monim : l. 2. (g) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . chrys : in ep : ad eph : edit : savil : p. 823. (h) quis unquam haereses instituit , nisi qui se priùs ab ecclesiae catholicae universitate , & antiquitatis consensione discreverit ? vincent : c. 34. (i) nullum schisma non sibi aliquam fingit haeresim , ut rectè ab ecclesiâ recessisse videatur . hieron : ad tit : c. 3. (k) non esse quicquam gravius sacrilegio schismatis . aug : contra parmen : l. 2.2 . ingens flagitium schismatis tradition ▪ junxerunt . optat : p. 23. edit : casaub : (l) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . dionys : ap : euseb : l. 6. c. 36. pejus hec crimen est quàm quod admisisse lapsi videntur . cypr : de unit : eccl : (m) vide optatum l. 8. c. 25. (n) quàm sine spe sint , & perditionem sibi maximam de indignatione dei acquirant , qui schisma feciunt , declarat in libro r●g : scriptura , ubi à tribu juda & benjamin decem tribus scissae sunt , & indignatus est , inquit , dominus in omne semen israel . cypr : ep : 76. (o) addendo autem civitatem samaritanorum debere omitti , ubi erant schismatici , ostendit schismaticos gentilibus adaequari . ibid. (p) exemplo core , dathan , &c. ostenditur & probatur obnoxios omnes & culpae & poenae futuros , qui se schismaticis irreligiosâ temeritate miscuerunt , ibid. deus quod in sacrilegos & parricidam non secerat , [ cain & ninive ] in schismaticos fecit , core , &c. optat : l. 1. p. 25. (q) novatianus nec debet nec potest excipi , quo minus ipse extra ecclesiam consistens , inter antichristos computetur , ibid. apparet antichristos omnes esse quos constet à charitate atque ab unitate ecclesiae recessisse , ibid. videndum quis foras exicrit , quis altare contra altare erexerit , quis jaceat sub sententiâ johannis apostoli , qui dixit multos antichristos feras exituros , optat : p. 1. l. 18. ab ecclesiâ separatus haereticus est , & antichristus , prosper de prom : & praedict : implend : c. 5. (r) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ignat : ep : ad smyrnens : (ſ) tales e●si occisi in confessione nominis fuerint , macula ista nec sanguine abluitur , inexpiabilis & gravis culpa discordiae nec passione purgatur , cyprian : de unit : eccl : no excuse for it . (t) caeteri tantùm vel simplicitate capti , ve● errore inducti , vel aliqua sallentis astutiae calliditate decepti , à fallaciae laqueis vos solvite , cypr : de unit : eccl : (u) judicabit spiritalis & eo●s qui schisma operantur , qui propter modicas & quaslibet causas , magnum & gloriosum corpus christi conscindunt , & dividunt , verè liquantes culicem , & camelum diglutientes , irenae : l. 4. c. 62. (x) nulla ab eis tanta potest fieri correptio , quanta est schismatis pernicies ▪ irenaeus l. 4. c. 62. (y) si possunt aliqui ( quod fieri non potest ) habere causam justam quo communionem separent à communione orbis terrarum . aug : ep : 48. the parts of the ensuing tract . (a) non attendisti inter schismaticos & haereticos quàm sit magna distantia . optat : l. 1. p. 13. (b) inter haeresim & schisma hoc interesse arbitramur , quòd haeresis perversum dogma habeat , schisma propter episcopalem dissensionem ab ecclesiâ pariter separet . hieron : ad tit : c. 3. the original of the word schism . reciprocal passion noted by the word . schisme a voluntary recession . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , jude 19. (a) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1 joh. 2.19 . (b) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . heb. 10.38 . excommunication no schisme . (c) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . concil : laod : can : 40. (d) propriae conscientiae videtur esse damnatio , cùm quispiam suo arbitrio ab ecclesiâ recesserit . hieron : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cod : can : afric : can : 22. interpretative excommunication . continuance out of actual communion , without schisme . unjust excommunication hurts no man. * papae à christo dictum , quicquid ligaveris super terram , erit ligatum , non quicquid dixeris esse ligatum . jacob : angularis in ep : ad wesselum ap : goldast : l. 1. p. 575. which holds in the interpretative excommunication . m r knots concession in this matter . c. 7. p. 471 , 472. severe conditions of some churches communion . make communion with them impossible . such are prescribing subscription of errors . or profession against conscience . application to the church of rome ; in relation to the present church of england . unity ecclesiastical wherein it consists . unity of members subordinate . of fellow brethren . the former . the later . communion . the branches of schisme as it is an offence against subordination . schism against the deacons or presbyters . against the bishop . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . † contra episcopatum meum &c. ep. 40. hi tribuebant , ne concordarent cum episcopo suo ibid. contra sacerdotium dei partionem ruptae fraternitatis armare voluisse . this of a lighter & a grosser sort . against the metropolitan . the original of metropolitans . in titus . eccl. hist . l. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in timothy . hom. 15. in 1. tim. 5.15 . photii lib. num . 254. eccl. hist . l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in james , &c. epist . 247. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — theod. in 1. tim. 3.1 . in arg. ep. ad eph. l. obser . d. de offic. procons . eccl. hist . l. 4. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . or. ad afiat . geogr. l. 5. c. 2. act. 5. nat. hist . l. 5. c. 29. ibid. c. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 steph. byzant . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in ignatius . in the bishop of rome . ( what his province . ) * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . euseb . eccl. hist . l. 7. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . syn. sardic . epist . ad alex. ap . athan. apol. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . athan. epist . ad solit . vit . agent . ex provinciâ italiae , civ . med ex prov. romanâ , civitate portuensi . syn. arelat . 1. in nominibus synodo praefixis . hist . eccl. l. 1· c. 6. in alexandria . eccl. hist . l. 2. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ibid. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in s. cyprian . the subjection of bishops to archbishops . of archbishops to primates , &c. ( original of primates . ) eccl. hist . l. 5. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ibid. c. d. in notit . galliae p. 8●2 . the primates power equal to that of the patriarch . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . concil . chalced. can penult . † or. 32. ad alexandrin . see aristid . or. de rom. laud. and no power but of the prince above them . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . socrat. l. 5. prooem . ex superioribus habetur imperatores sanctos congregationes synodales universalium conciliorum totius ecclesiae semper ●●cisse . ita ego perlustrans gesta omnium universalium usque ad octavum inclusivè basiliitempore celebratum verum esse r●peri . cusan . de concord . cathol l. 3. c. 16. and c. 13. see s. hierom in apol. ad ruffin . l. 2. where speaking of a pretended synod , he adds , quis imperator hanc synodum jusserit congregari ? the primitive power of primates &c. act. 15 can. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ulp. obser . d. de offic. procons . the first charge against us , our casting out the popes supremacy . the supremacy of s. peter examined . evidences against it . first from his being apostle of the circumcision peculiarly . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . theoph. in 1 cor 15.7 . ex sentententiâ chrysostomi . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , photius epist . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so nicephorus l. 2 c. 38. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . euseb . eccl. hist . l. 2. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . euseb . ex clement : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. 5 ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hegesippus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ap . euseb . l. 2. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . euseb . l. 2. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . vide athan. in synops . epiph. haer. 78. nyssen . de resur . or. 2. hieron . in gal. 1. & in catal. euseb . in chron. p. 43. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — . the gentiles were not s. peters province . a hom. 4. in luc. b l. 2. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c de syn. arim. & seleuc. d ex com . ignat. e l. 3. c. 3. euseb . l. 4. c. 6. f l. 1. adv . carpocrat . a l. 2. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b euseb . ibid. c euseb . ibid. d de prom. & praedict : implend : c. 5. nor all the circumcision . not the jewes of asia , a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ap . euseb . l. 3. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ibid. c joannes apud ephesum ecclesiā sacravit . de prom. & praed . impl . c. 5. d phot. bib. num . 254. as neither the gentiles there . hom. 5. in 1 tim. 5.19 . nor in crete , nor in britannie . * de petr : & paul : ad diem 29. junii . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . prospers testimony to this matter . a second evidence against s. peters supremacy from the donation of the keyes . power of the keyes given to all and each . in mat. 18. epist . 27. de dign . sacerd . c. 5. & 6. ep. ad dracont . the romanists argument from tu es petrus evacuated . no privilege by succession from s. peter , but such as s. peter is proved to have himself . * de praescript . c. 32. * the privileges attending s. peters successor belonging rather to the bishop of antioch then of rome . the primacy belonged to rome upon another score . can. penult . the canon of the councel of chalcedon rejected by the romanists . the dignity of patriarchs reconcileable with the independency of primates . the canon of ephesus against encroaching on any others province . instances of independent power in archbishops . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a caetera provinciae sub ejus sint authoritate , i. e. tam ipsa mediterranea dacia , quàm dacia ripensis , nec non mysia , secunda dardania , & praevalitana provincia & secunda macedonia , & pars secunda etiam pannoniae , quae in bacen●i est civitate . justin : de privileg : archiep : just : prim : ed : à gothofred : b volumus ut primae justinianae patriae nostrae pro tempore sacrosanctus antistes , non solùm metroplitanus , sed etiam archiepiscopus fiat . ibid. c multis & variis modis nostram patriam augere cupientes , in qua deus praestitit nobis ad hunc modum ( so gothofred reads , but certainly it should be ad , or in hunc mundum ) quem ipse condidit , venire . ibid. necessarium duximus ipsam gloriosissimam praefecturam , quae in pannoniâ erat , in nostrâ foelicissimâ patriâcollocare . ib. * quando autem te ab ●âc ▪ luce decedere contigerit , pro tempore archiepiscopum ejus à venerabili suo concilio metropolitanorum ordinari sancimus , quem ad modum decet archiepiscopum omnibus honoratum ecclesiis provehi . ibid. the unreasonablenesse of confining the catholick church to the number of those that live in the roman subjection . the plea from planting the faith unreconcileable with the former . a dilemma to the romanist . the faith planted here before augustine the monk. * suscepistis nuper in regno britanniae legem & fidem christi . and not quite destroyed by dioclesian . * see s. hen : spelman , concil : anglic : pag. 26. out of the annales of gisburne . † à samsone usque tempus henrici primi , sederunt meneviae undecim episcopi , & usque ad hoc tempus episcopi meneviae à suis su●fraganeis wallensibus ibidem fuerunt consecrati , nullâ penitus professione v●l subjectione factâ alteri ecclesiae . ibid. the britains rejection of the bishop of rome . † concil : anglic : p. 188. the invalidity of the argument from conversion , when the britains were certainly not converted by augustine . no title from conversion for subjection . the power of kings to erect patriarchates . † examples in justiniana prima , c. 5. §. 8. carthage . † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : 131. ravenna . * de privileg : patriar : † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * l. 4. c. 34. grado . frequent in the east . so also to translate . examples in england . concil : angl : p. 26. so to exempt from episcopal jurisdiction . kings founders of bishopricks and patrons , the reason of all , supreme power of kings , * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the king is as it were the common directer and ruler of the church , both in title and reality . demetrii chomateni resp : ad const : cab : jur. graec : rom : l. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ye are bishops of the church for those things which are celebrated within it , but for external things , i am constituted overseer or bishop by god , saith constantine the great in an assembly of bishops . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i am king and priest , saith leo isaurus to gregory the second , nec tamen eo nomine à pontifice reprehenditur , and was not for this reprehended by the pope , see j. c. de lib. eccl : ap : goldast : monarch : t. 1. p. 686. so socrates the historian , of the emperours in general , after their receiving the faith of christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the affairs of the church depended on them , in prooem . l. 5. and by optatus l. 2. it is noted , and censured as a schismatical piece of language in the donatist● , quid enim imperatori cum ecclesiâ ? and all this according to the principles of civil policy acknowledged by aristotle pol. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the king hath power of those things that belong to the gods ; and by diotogenes in s●obaeus , that a perfect king ought to be both a good captain , and a judge , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yea and a priest also ; and accordingly among the ancient roman regal lawes , this is one , sacrorum omniū potestas sub regibus esto , let the power of all sacred things be under the kings , and so in the practice , caius caesar in suetonius c. 13. was both augur and summus pontifex ▪ galba tres pontificatus gerebat , ibid : gal. c. 8. claudius is by josephus called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the greatest high-priest , and tacitus makes it his observation , deûm nunc munere summum pontificem summum hominum esse . annal : l. 3. the same appears among the jewish kings in scripture , david ordering the courses of the priests , solomon consecrating the temple , hezekiah 2 chron : 29. 2 kin : 18. and josiah 2 kin : 22. ordering many things belonging to it . and so s. paul appealed from the judgement of the chief priests to the tribunal of caesar , see g : de heimberg : de usurp : pap : so in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the whole third book is made up of justinians , i. e. the emperours constitutions , de episcopis , clericis & sacris , concerning bishops , clergy men , and sacred offices . and the canons of councels have mostly been set out ( and received their authority ) by the emperours , and accordingly in the theodosian code we shall find many of those which are now called papal decrees . and ecclesiastical division of provinces following the civil . this power of kings if taken away by forein laws &c. resumable . so if alienated by prescription . † clav : reg : l. 9. c. 12. the history of what was done against the bishop of rome in the reformation . the praemunire . the right of the bishop of rome considered . the concession of kings . † in goldast : de mon : a dilemma against the plea drawn from that . two sorts of gifts . some revocable . the reasonablenesse of revoking it . title & power of supreme head of the church retained by queen mary . the advance of the reformation in k ng edward's daies . in queen elizabeth's . the creation of new bishops in queen elizabeth's time , vindicated . three branches of the second sort of schisme . 1. a departure from the unity of doctrines , or traditions apostolical . our church vindicated from this , in two branches . in the first , christs rules for upholding the truth . in the second , particular doctrines . the church of englands temper in respect of particular doctrines . this church free from breach of communion ecclesiastical . as appears by six considerations . the first . the second . the third . the fourth . the fift . the sixt . a consideration concerning our church . contrary to charity due from all to all . 1. judging ▪ 2. despising . separating the effect of both . of judging & separating the romanists guilty ex confesso of despising . we are guiltlesse of it . the romanists argument frō our present condition of persecution . answered . what this may come to in the future . the conclusion . the araignment of the present schism of new separation in old england. together vvith a serious recommendation of church-unity and uniformity. as it was lately presented to the church of god at great yarmouth, / by john brinsley. brinsley, john, 1600-1665. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a77494 of text r200782 in the english short title catalog (thomason e335_10). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 256 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 41 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a77494) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 113574) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 54:e335[10]) the araignment of the present schism of new separation in old england. together vvith a serious recommendation of church-unity and uniformity. as it was lately presented to the church of god at great yarmouth, / by john brinsley. brinsley, john, 1600-1665. [4], 75, [1] p. printed by john field for ralph smith, and are to be sold at the signe of the bible, neer the royal exchange., london, : 1646. annotation on thomason copy: "may 4th". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng bible. -n.t. -corinthians, 1st i, 10 -sermons. schism -sermons -early works to 1800. church -unity -sermons -early works to 1800. sermons, english -17th century. great britain -church history -17th century -early works to 1800. a77494 r200782 (thomason e335_10). civilwar no the araignment of the present schism of new separation in old england.: together vvith a serious recommendation of church-unity and uniform brinsley, john 1646 43450 211 265 0 0 0 0 110 f the rate of 110 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2007-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-04 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-07 john latta sampled and proofread 2008-07 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the araignment of the present schism of new separation in old england . together vvith a serious recommendation of church-unity and uniformity . as it was lately presented to the church of god at great yarmouth , by john brinsley . phil. 2. 1. if there be therefore any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies ; vers . 2. fulfil ye my joy , that ye be like minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one minde . jere. 32. 39. i will give them one heart , and one way . london , printed by john field for ralph smith , and are to be sold at the signe of the bible , neer the royal exchange . 1646. the testimony of christ was truth , peace his legacy ; he came into the world to bear witnesse to the truth , and at his departure bequeathed peace to his disciples . this author walking in his masters steps , hath contended for truth against heresie in his former labors , in these for peace and unity against schism : a bold undertaking in these distracted times , but yet necessary , and hopeful . truth is strong , and will prevail against heresies , and that peace may be established in the churches is the scope of this treatise , and the prayer of him who approves it to be imprinted , james cranford . to the christian reader . ( christian ) seeing dedication of books ( which is not so much of gods truth as mans labors , and a thing from saint lukes time ( who dedicates a both his treatises to b one noble personage , which he wrote for the use of all the churches ) till this present never questioned ) is now in this sceptical age by c some made a scruple ; i shall for this once forbear it , though otherwise at sometimes a d useful formality , and at all times an innocent ceremony . onely for thy satisfaction take this breif epistolary declaration . mistake it not . it is not new england that i have here to deal with , nor yet properly new englands way , commonly known by the name of independency . which though i cannot in all things subscribe to as [ the ] way of christ precisely laid forth in the word for all the churches to walk in , yet , were i there , rather then make a schism in the body , i would quietly submit to , blessing god that i might sit down in it , and enjoy the comforts of it . it is separation that my quarrel is against . and that not separation in a church , by purging of it ; but separation from a church , by departing from it , and forsaking communion with it . for the former of these i plead , as the most hopeful means to heal our breaches . the latter i implead , and that by the name of schism properly and formally so called . whether this plea be just or no , let the sequel speak : which as i was necessitated to preach ( meeting with so just a ground for it in the text , which in my ordinary course ( passing through the epistle ) i fell with , and but too just an occasion for it in the place where i live ) , so am i now to publish ; and that , as for other ends , so for the vindicating both the truth of god and my self from those unjust and unchristian imputations , which have been charged upon both by some who have taken upon them to censure what they would not vouchsafe to hear . i know the subject is such as must look for little better entertainment abroad at many hands . naturally all men are given to think well , and to desire to hear nothing but well of their own opinions and wayes . what herein crosseth them , goeth against the grain of nature , and so no wonder if it seem harsh and unpleasing . but this , as it hath been no invitation to me to deal with it , so neither is it now any discouragement to me in the publication of it . the work ( i trust ) is gods ; not undertaken ( i am sure ) without an eye to his glory , and his churches good . and therefore i shall leave the successe thereof unto him to whom i have consecrated my labors and my self . possibly somewhat of man may be found in the managing of it , ( as in agitations of this nature it is hard not to mingle our own spirits with gods ) ; if so , upon the discovery i shall freely acknowledge it . in the mean time my conscience beareth me record that my aym hath been to inform , and not to irritate ; to make up our breaches and not to widen them . may my poor endeavors contribute the least to so a happy a work , i shall acknowledge it an abundant recompence for whatever i am able to do , or am subject to suffer . in the desire and hopes whereof i shall quietly waite , and rest thine in the service of christ , john brinsley . yarmouth , march 25. 1646. the sad schism of new separation in old england . 1 cor. 1. 10. now i beseech you brethren by the name of our lord jesus christ , that ye all speak the same thing , and that there be no divisions ( no schisms ) among you ; but that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same minde , and in the same judgement . having read this text , me thinks , i could now deal with it , as origen is said once to have delt with a text which he met with at jerusalem . being there over-entreated to preach , opening his bible , he fell with that of the psalmist , psal. 50. 16. vnto the wicked god saith , what hast thou to do to take my words into thy mouth , &c. seeing thou hatest to be reformed . having read the words , and being conscious to himself of what he had formerly done in offering sacrifice to an idol , and so denying the truth , he presently closeth up the book ; and instead of preaching , falls to weeping , all his auditory weeping with him . and truely even thus ( me thinks ) could i deal with this text which i have now read unto you . having read it , i could even close the book , and instead of preaching upon it , sit down and weep over it , inviting you to accompany me , considering how far we in this kingdom , nay in this place at the present are , from what is here desired . what ? all speak the same thing ? no divisions ? a perfect union in the same minde and judgement ? alas ! nothing lesse . what multiplicity of divisions are here to be found ? tongues divided : hearts divided : heads divided : hands divided : state divided : church divided : cities divided : towns divided : families divided : the neerest relations divided : scarce a field to be found where the envious man hath not sown some , and many of these tares . just matter for all our mourning . but i remember what the lord once said to josh●a , being faln upon his face , weeping and lamenting over that unexpected repulse which a party of his army ( till then reputed invincible ) had met withal at ai . get thee up ( saith the lord ) wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face ? vp , sanctifie the people , &c. josh. 7. brethren , it is not weeping and lamenting ; without further endeavors , that will heal our distempers . somewhat else must be done . and the lord teach every of us in our places to do that which may be most proper for this end . for my self , seeing god here by his providence in this juncture of time putteth a talent into my hand , i shall endeavor to improve it as i am able ; though happily therein i may disappoint the hopes of some , and the fears of other , in not handling this subject in such a way as either of them made account of . to close with the words . therein we have a grave , but earnest obtestation , or request ; an obsecratory charge directed by paul to his corinthians ; wherein we may take notice of two things . the manner ; the matter . the manner of propounding ; which is by way of obtestation , in an obsecratory , supplicatory way , intreating , beseeching , [ now i beseech you brethren ] which also he doth with a great deal of sweetnesse , and a great deal of earnestnesse . sweetnesse , in the comp●●lation . [ i beseech you brethren ] earnestnesse . in the adjuration . [ i beseech you brethren , by the name of our lord jesus christ . ] the matter propounded and pressed , is in one word vnity . touching which we have here a dehortation , and an exhortation . the former dehorting from what is contrary to it . [ let there be no divisions among you . ] the latter exhorting to what makes for it , viz. agreement in language , minde , judgement . [ that ye all speak the same thing , and that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same minde , and in the same judgement . ] in this method ( god assisting ) i shall handle the words : beginning with the manner of proposal , of which as briefly as i may . now i beseech you brethren , &c. ] an introduction full of affection , fall of sweetnesse . thus the apostle here , ( like a skilful , but tender and wary surgeon , who being to launce an impostume , a tumor in the body , he first supples , and ripens it , and draws it to a head , by mollifying playsters and pultesses , before he make an incision ) intending to deal sharply with these his corinthians in reproving of their errors , he first applieth himself to them in a milde and gentle way . being to come to them with the rod , he first cometh in the spirit of meeknesse ; lightning before he thunders , intreating before he chides . thus nails dipt in oyl , they drive the easier . affectionate insinuations , and declarations , are apt and proper preparatives for tart reprehensions . the smith first heats his iron , then strikes upon it . the ministers of god in publike , christians in private being to reprove others , let them do it with all tendernesse , and demonstration of hearty affection that may be . by this means , their words will take place the better . but this by the way . come we neerer the words , wherein ( if we will resolve them ) we shall finde couched a threefold argument made use of by the apostle , for the letting in of this his charge . the first , in the observation [ i beseech you . ] the second in the compellation [ i beseech you brethren . ] the third in the adjuration [ i beseech you brethren , by the name of our lord jesus christ . ] these three i shall take up severally , looking upon each in a double aspect : first , simply in themselves ; then relatively in reference to the thing here desired . i beseech you ] so the word ( {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) is here most fitly rendered by precor , obsecro , i intreat , i beseech you : rather then by exhortor , i exhort you , as elsewhere it signifieth . a language which ( as peter martyr here notes upon it ) is seldom or never to be found amongst the prophets . they exhort , dehort , command , threaten , and sometimes promise , but seldom or never intreat , never beseech . such language we meet not with in the old testament ; but in the new testament it is frequent , specially in the mouth of this apostle . now i beseech you brethren , rom. 12. 1. we intreat you be ye reconciled , 2 cor. 5. 20. i beseech euodias , i beseech syntiche , phil. 4. 2. thus speaks paul not onely to whole churches , but even to particular persons , dealing with them in an obsecratory , supplicatory way , intreating , beseeching what as an apostle he might have enjoyned , commanded . so he tells philemon , verse 8 , 9. of his epistle , though i might be much bold in christ to enjoyn thee that which is convenient ; yet for love sake , i rather beseech thee . i bese●ch thee for my son one simus , &c. paul might as an apostle have enjoyned things convenient , much more then things necessary ; yet such is his sweetnesse , that oft times laying aside his imperative authority , he falls to intreating , beseeching . such sweetnesse is there in the gospel above what was in the law . in the law god commandeth , forbiddeth . thou shalt ; thou shalt not . that is , the language of mount sinai ; the language of the law . but in the gospel it is otherwayes . here god himself , as it were beseecheth men . as if god did beseech you by us , saith the apostle , 2 cor. 5. 20. and doth god stoop to do it , much more may man . the ministers of the gospel they are not lords over gods heritage , they are but fellow servants with their brethren , ( as the angel tells john , revel. 19. ) and being so , for them to use intreaties , can be no disparagement . not , but that they may sometimes make use of other language . paul who here intreats his corinthians , elsewhere he commands his thessalonians . now we command you brethren , &c. 2 thes. 3. and what himself doth , he bids timothy do . these things command and teach , 1 tim. 4. this may the ministers of christ do . what they teach , they may also command . onely in the name of christ . so paul there qualifies his command . now we command you in the name of our lord jesus christ . not in his own name . to the married i command , yet not i , but the lord , 1 cor. 7. officers speak not in their own names . if they do , their commands are nothing worth . shall the ministers of christ impose ought upon the church in their own names ( as some of late have done ) their commands may as well ( it may be better ) be rejected , as obeyed . but speaking in the name of christ , now they may not onely intreat , but command . i , and where occasion is , rebuke . preach the word , be instant in season , and out of season , reprove , rehuke , 2 tim. 4. rebuke , and that if need be , sharply . so paul willeth titus to deal with false teachers , tit. 1. 13. rebuke them sharply . this the ministers of christ upon occasion may do , and that with all authority , as paul bids titus to do , tit. 2. 15. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , cum omni imperio ; viz. as ambassadors of iesus christ , having authority from their master to do it in his name . such language the ministers of god sometimes may use : not alwayes intreat , not alwayes beseech . yet , this sometimes they may do , must do , where there is any hope of prevailing for god in this way , they must not think much to fall upon their knees ( as it were ) and to become supplyants unto their people , begging that from them , which otherwise they might in the name of christ command . so doth the apostle here . now i beseech you . ] brethren ] there is ●●e compellation [ brethren . ] a word very frequent in pauls mouth . almost in every chapter of every epistle , upon all occasions , still , this is his language , brethren , brethren . to let passe the proper signification of the word , which is well enough known . brethren , such are all men by nature . whence are ye my brethren ? saith jacob to the men of haran , gen. 29. all partaking of the same common nature , issuing from the same womb , having the same first parents . such are christians by grace . all that professe the faith of christ , holding the same god for their father , and the same church for their mother ; they are brethren ; and so were these corinthians in reference both to paul , and one to another . brethren . ] a word full of sweetnesse , breathing forth more then ordinary affection and love . so the servants of benahad apprehended it , when they heard that word fall from ahabs mouth concerning their master , he is my brother ; they presently take it up as a word importing more then ordinary respect , and thereupon ( eccho like ) return it back to him again , thy brother benhadad . such affections should all true christians bear one to another . look upon one another as brethren , not as strangers , as the guise of these dividing times is : but as brethren . and that not onely calling one another so , but really acknowledging one another such . loving not in word , neither in tongue ( as saint iohn presseth it ) but in deed and in truth : that is , to love as brethren , as saint peter urgeth it , 1 pet. 3. love as brethren . such should the church of god be , a true philadelphia , where all the members should be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , lovers of the brethren , and loving as brethren . withall , expressing their love by a ready performance of all brotherly offices each to other . under the law there was a brand of ignominy set upon the brother which refused to build up his brothers house , by raising up issue to him for the upholding of his family . the law was that , beside spitting in his face , he should have his shooe pulled off ; and so was ever after called ( as the rabines tell us ) the man that had his shooe pulled off . the meaning of which ceremony was to shew how worthy he was accounted and adjudged to go bare-foot himself , that would not do the office of a brother to his brother . an ignominious and infamous thing it is for brethren by nature , not to be ready to brotherly offices ; much more for brethren by grace . christians , in the fear of god remember your relation , and let it be your care , and end●●vour to answer it . expressing brotherly affection to such as are your brethren ; specially to such as are so indeed , not onely before men , but b●fore god : such as in whom the image of your heavenly father is conspicuous . to such shew your selves brethren indeed , helping , comforting , succouring , releeving of them : stepping in to them in their necessi●ies . for such a time a brother is born . a brother is born for adversity ( saith the wiseman . ) then to be helpful is the part of a brother indeed . thus should christians in general stand affected each to other . and thus should the ministers of the gospel in special stand affected towards their people , looking upon them as brethren , bearing and expressing brotherly affection unto them . i , notwithstanding they be such as in respect of personal wrongs and injuries , deserve nothing lesse . that was pauls case here in the tex● . some of these corinthians delt very unkindely and unworthily by him . notwithstanding god had made him to them their father in christ , to whom they were as truely beholding for their spiritual , as ever they were to their parents for their natural generation . so much himself puts them in minde of 1 cor. 4. though you have ten thousand instructers in christ , yet have ye not many fathers : for in christ iesus i have begotten you through the gospel . yet for all this , some of them would not now so much as own him , nor his ministery : no , they were of apollos , they were of cephas . paul was now no body with them , now they had gotten to themselves new teachers . an unkinde requital for all the pains he had spent upon them . yet for all this , see how paul still beareth his old affection unto them : though they were changed , yet he was the same : though they would not own him , yet he will own them , and that as brethren . now i beseech you brethren . ] a patern for the ministers of the gospel in these dividing times , wherein some possibly may meet with the very like measure that paul here did . they have bestowed their pains upon a people , and god hath blessed their labours amongst them , making them instrumental in converting of some , and building up of others of them : yet now , meeting with new teachers , the old are despised in their eyes , their ministery sleighted , their persons disregarded , if not un-christianly traduced . an ill requital it must be confessed : but what of this ? still look we upon them as brethren ; specially apprehending the work of grace truly wrought in them , let not all this unkindenesse make an alienation of affection from them : still love them . i , though it do fall out with us , as paul complains of , and to these his corinthi●ns , 2 cor. 12. though the more abundantly we love them , the lesse we be beloved of them ; yet be we content and willing to spend , and to be spent for their sakes , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , for their souls ( as the original there hath it . ) in so doing we have the apostle for a patern . n●y , herein we have god himself for a patern . the people of the jews how did they requite the lord , for all his fatherly mercies which he had shown to them ? here himself expressing it in that pathetical complaint , isai. 1. 2. hear o heavens , and give ear o earth , for the lord hath spoken ; i have nourished and brought up children , but they have rebelled against me . for children thus to requite their parents , is an unnatural thing ; much more for a people thus to requite their god . yet for all this , still god tenders that people , owns them as his people , and it ready to do any thing for them that might tend to their good . o ephrain● , what shall i do unto thee ? o iuda , what shall i do unto thee ? is it so that the ministers of god meet with the like measure from a people , whom god hath made them instruments to beget , and bring up to and for himself , yet let them tender them , still bear them good will , still with paul here , look upon them as brethren . this do we . and this do you . your brethren , however by their unkinde withdrawing themselves from religious communion with you , they may seem worthy to be unbrothered , yet still acknowledge that relation , and though they will not own you , yet do you own them : still looking upon them as brethren . so did ioseph upon his unkinde brethren , who had cast him into the pit , and sold him into egypt , yet still he looketh upon them as brethren , his bowels yerned over them , and as occasion was , his hand was inlarged towards them in the supply of their wants : thus stand you affected to your unkinde brethren of the separation . suppose by their uncharitable censures they should cast you into the pit , excluding you from their communion , and send you to egypt , to rome , as some of them have done by their rash and un-christian censures past upon the church of england , and the members of it ; yet , still let your bowels yern over them , and be ready upon all occasions to do all good offices to them : looking upon those of that way , and dealing with them as brethren . brethren of the separation . that was the stile of the last age which our fathers gave un●o theirs , and let not us grutch it their children . so call them , so own them ( i mean such of them , as in whom the image of god appeareth ) . such still they are , or may be , to u● , even as iosephs brethren were to him , brethren by the fathers side , though not by the mothers : though they will not acknowledge the same church for their mother , yet they acknowledge the same god for their father ; and in that respect , let us yet look upon them as brethren . i beseech you brethren . ] by the name of the lord iesus christ . ] there is the apostles adjuration ; so i may not amisse call it : for what is an adjuration , but the requiring or commanding of a thing , by interposing the name and authority of god or christ ? and thus doth paul here back his obtestation or charge , by the sacred name of the lord jesus . the name of jesus christ is the same with christ himself . i know some romish expositors would make more of it ; placing a great deal of weight in the very name it self . in obtestationibus etiam nomina ponderantur , ( saith the iesuite estius upon it . ) in obtestations , requests and charges of this nature , names themselves have their weight . thus amongst the iews ( saith he ) they had ever a special regard to that nomen dei tetragrammaton , that four-lettered name of god ( as they called it ) viz. iehovah . the name it self was sacred unto them , and consequently they took it as the most solemn obligation which was bou●d with it . and of such account ( saith he ) should the name [ iesus ] be unto christians . nomen sacrosanctum & super omnia venerabile , a sacred name , and a name above every name . and therefore paul in his obtestation ( saith he ) here maketh use of that name as presuming it would carry a great deal of sway with them . but this we decline as smelling too much of the iesuit , who by advancing the name [ jesus ] above all other names , thinks also to advance 〈◊〉 is own order above all other orders . leaving them the shell , seek we for the kernel . to beseech by the name of iesus christ here , is no more but to beseech for christs sake , or by authority from christ . take it either way , we shall finde it a prevalent argument . 1. for christs sake . for the love of iesus christ ; so calvin explains it . quantum ipsum amant . as you love jesus christ , as you bear any true respect unto him . and can there be a more forcible perswasive to a christian then this ? paul himself having felt the working of this love in his own brest , he found a compulsory force in it . the love of christ ( saith he ) constraineth us . and hereupon he maketh use of it as an argument to others , as conceiving that if this would not prevail with them , nothing would . and surely so it is . where the name of christ , love to christ , respect unto christ , unto his honor and glory , will not prevail with christians , there is little hope of prevailing . the name of christ , it should be dear and precious to every christian , a thing alwayes in his eye . like the pole-star to the mariner , which way soever he stears , yet he hath an eye to that . thus in what ever a christian undertaketh he should have a respect to this name . so paul presseth it upon his colossians , col. 3. whatsoever ye do in word or deed , do all in the name of the lord jesus . viz. with a respect unto him , in reference to his honor and glory . what ever may tend that way , that do we . what ever is dishonorable to iesus christ , that avoid . 2. or ( secondly ) by the name of iesus christ , that is , by authority from iesus christ . thus officers speak , and act not in their own , but in their masters name , the kings name , by authority from him . and thus the ministers of christ being church-officers , what they say or do to the church , it must not be in their own name , but in the name of iesus christ . in his name they must preach , as ambassadors for christ . in his name dispense sacraments and censures . in the name of our lord iesus christ , when ye are gathered together in the power of our lord iesus christ , to deliver such a one unto satan : so paul would have his corinthians deal with that scandalous person . and so himself here dealeth with them , not in his own name , but in the name of the lord iesus christ . i beseech you brethren by the name of our lord jesus christ . ] thus have i cast a glance upon the words severally , and simply considered , finding somewhat in each branch not unuseful . give me leave now , before i part with them , to reflect upon them again ; looking upon them as they stand in reference to the thing here so much desired by the apostle from these his corinthians : which is , unity , peace , church-peace , and agreement amongst themselves . a thing certainly of very great consequence , of high concernment to the church . otherwise ( questionlesse ) paul would never have laid so much weight upon it , never have put so much strength to his r●qu●st and charge concerning it . wise men do not use to intreat for trifles : much lesse to beseech , and that with such earnestnesse . it is aretius his note upon the text , and it is a good one . wise men ( saith he ) will not make use of such serious obtestations ( much lesse of adjurations ) except it be in matters of great importance and weight . now if this be a truth ( as undoubtedly it is , and i wish it may be so looked upon by those who are so ready upon every sleight and trivial occasion , to break out into such deep and solemn protestations , not sparing to make use of the name of god to binde them ; surely this cannot be the part of wise men , much lesse of wise christians ) then certainly there is scarce any one thing of greater concernment unto christians then this . sure i am , there is no one thing that paul doth ( nor i think any man can ) more earnestly make suit for , then he doth for this . witnesse but that one rhetorical and pathetical obsecration , and adjuration of his , which we meet with phil. 2. 1. if therefore there be any consolations in christ , if any comfort of love , any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mer●i●s . did you ever hear more earnestnesse in any cause ? and what is the matter ? the next verse will inform it . fulfil ye my joy , that ye be like minded , having the same love , &c. such a pearl was church-peace in pauls eye . o that it were so in ours , and our brethrens . that it may be so to us , give way to that threefold argument which the apostle here maketh use of in handing this request to these his corinthians . 1. let his obsecration , his supplication move us . [ i beseech y●● ] . surely ( as i said ) it is not a trifle that brings a man of pauls spirit to his knees : it is not for nothing , nor yet for a smal matter , that so great an apostle should here become a suppliant to the church of corinth , begging this at their hands , that they would be at unity amongst themselves . let this make us think the more of it , and set more by it then we have done . 2. ( secondly ) if this obsecration move us not , yet let this compellation prevail with us . [ i beseech you brethren ] . it was moses his argument which he made use of to the two hebrew combatants , sirs , ye are brethren , why do ye wrong one another . so stephen relates the story , acts 7. and the same argument abraham had made use of before him , in composing the difference betwixt his kinsman lot and himself , and their herdmen . let there be no strife , i pray thee , between me and thee , &c. for we be brethren , gen. 13. christians are brethren . and if so , why do we fall out ? why do we not speak the same thing ? why are not we joyned togeth●● in the same minde , and in the same judgement ? why do any amongst us breed and foment divisions , by separating and withdrawing themselves , both from publike and private communion with those whom yet they dare not but call brethren ? if brethren , then let us live together , and love together as brethren . so live . brethren in their fathers house do not use to part tables : for christians to withdraw religion , communion with their brethren , to set up table against table , is a most unbrotherly part . and so living , so love , even as brethren . let brotherly love continue . so the apostle presseth it , heb. 13. to lay down holy unity and agreement , is to lay aside fraternity . i beseech you brethren . 3. but in the third place . if neither of these will take place , yet let this religious adjuration prevail with us . i beseech you brethren by the name o● our lord jesus christ . here is a cord of many strands , strong enough one would think to binde us to the peace . scarce a word , but we shall finde a several argument couched in it . 1. by the [ name ] of jesus christ . have we any love to jesus christ , any regard to his authority , any respect to his honor and glory ? endeavour we after unity . it is a thing wherein the name of christ is much interessed and concerned , in point of honor , or dishonor . in the holy unity and agreement of christians , the name of christ is honored . in their divisions and dissensions it is as much dishonored . by the name of christ then be we intreated , nay , adjured to seek after peace . 2. by the name of [ our lord ] a lord , and our lord . being so , what he commands we are bound in duty to obey , and observe . now amongst other his precepts to his disciples , this is one . have salt in your selves , and have peace one with another . besides , being our lord , we are now fellow servants ; and consequently for us to fall out , it cannot be without dishonor to our lord , and disturbance to his house . therefore endeavour we to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , in as much as we have one lord ; so the apostle presseth it , eph. 4. 3. our lord [ jesus ] . there is yet more . jesus , a saviour , our saviour . and being so , he doth onely salubria suadere , perswade and command nothing but what is safe for us to observe and obey . withal , as a saviour , amongst other benefits , he hath procured this for one , even peace . he is our peace , ( saith the apostle ) ephes. 2. viz. the author of our peace , as betwixt god and us , so betwixt one another . 4. lastly , our lord jesus [ christ ] . one anointed by god his father , to be a prophet , priest , king , unto his church . now as a prophet he hath taught , and doth teach us peace . he came and preached peace ( saith the apostle ) . this he did in his own person . this he hath done by his apostles . this he doth by his ministers , all which are or should be as messengers and ambassadors of peace . as a priest , by the offering up of himself he hath purchased peace , breaking down that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that middle wall of separation , taking away the ground of division which was betwixt jews and gentiles , that so he might make both one . and shall we go about to set up what he hath pulled down , to set up walls of partition and separation amongst our selves ? as a king , he is the king of peace , the true salomon , pacificus , the peace-maker ( as the word signifieth , ) the prince of peace , isai. 9. who governs his subjects in peace , having made laws to binde them to the peace , putting his spirit into them , which is a spirit of peace . now put these together , here are arguments enough . et quae non prosunt singula — . if any one of these should not be sufficient , yet ( me thi●ks ) all together should be superabundant to perswade us to yeeld to what the apostle here so earnestly presseth . which what it is , will more fully appear in the sequel , wherein we have the matter of this his request , or charge . therein ( according to the method propounded ) i shall look first upon the dehortation , then upon the exhortation . begin with the former . i beseech you , &c. that there be no divisions among you . ] here is the substance of what he dehorts from , in one word , divisions . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( saith the original ) schisms . for the opening of which , give me leave to look first upon the word , then upon the thing . for the word [ schism ] . the learned know the root whence it springs to be the greek {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which signifieth scindere or lacerare , to cut or rend . to cut or cleave , or rive , as wood is cloven or riven . that ( say some ) is the proper signification of the word . or to rend as a garment is rent . so then , schisma , a schism , is the same with scissura , a violent division and rent . so our saviour useth the word matth. 9. 16. where speaking of the putting of a new peice of cloth to an old garment , he saith , that thereby the rent is made worse . the word in the original is the same with that in the text . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the schism . here is the proper signification of the word . by a metaphor it is translated from inanimate things unto men , and applied to their divisions ; which we know are either civil or ecclesiastical . civil in the state , ecclesiastical in the church . the former of these is properly called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , sedition ; the latter {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , schism . a word ( as the learned chameron notes upon it ) not to be met with in any prophane writer , nor yet in the old testament . true , the root from whence it is derived , is found in both , and used in this sense . thus we read of the rending of the kingdom of israel , which was done in that seditious falling off of the ten tribes from the house of david . and so men of different opinions are said to be rent a sunder . but the word it self [ schism ] it is peculiar to the new testament , from whence ecclesiastical writers have taken it , and appropriated it to the church , and the affairs thereof . so they have delt by some other words , as sacramentum , idolum , haeresis , sacrament , idol , heresie . ecclesiastical writers have appropriated them to the church , affixing a peculiar sense and signification to every of them . and so is it with this word schism , an ecclesiastical , or techno-logical term ( as they call it ) a term of art . this for the word . for the thing . a schism ( take it in the latitude of it ) is any division in the church . when the unity of the church is ( as it were ) rent and torn by any kinde of divisions . the church ( we must know ) is to be considered as one intire body , having many members , whereof christ is the head . now where that unity is broknn , that body ( as it were ) rent and torn by the divisions and disagreements of the members , there is said to be a schism . even as it is in the natural body ; where the members do not agree to perform mutual offices each to other , there , in pauls language , is a schism in the body ; so you have it , 1 cor. 12. so is it in this mystical body , the church . the divisions of the members make a schism in the body , a schism in the church . now this division amongst church-members ( i beseech you follow me close a little , least i loose you ) it may be either in opinion or practice . and each in a large acceptation of the word may be called schism . division in opinion . of such a division we read , joh. 7. there was a division among the people ; a schism , ( saith the original ) . and what was it about ? why about christ himself , viz. what he was , and whence he was . but more properly divisions in practice are notified by this name of schism . as for the former of these , it is properly called heresie , the latter schism . which two , how ever they are sometimes indifferently used , and put the one for the other . ( so they are 1 cor. 11. 18. l hear that there are divisions [ schisms ] among you ; for there must be al●o heresies among you . schisms and heresies used in the same sente . ) yet ordinarily and in proper acceptation they are distinguished . about the distinguishing of them , we finde some difference amongst the ancients . augustine conceived the difference to lye onely in the continuance . as if the one were a recent and new , the other an old and inveterate division . but jerom more rightly . heresie ( saith he ) is properly a perverse opinion ; schism is a perverse separation . the one a doctrinal , the other a practical error . the one opposite to faith , the other to charity . these are the two bonds and ligaments by which the church is united , and knit together . by the one ( viz. by faith ) all the members are united unto the head . by the other , ( viz. by charity ) they are united one to another . now the breaking of the first of these bands , is heresie , the latter schism . thus they are distinct , the one from the other . so as a man may be the one , and not the other . a man may be an heretick denying some article of the faith ; and yet not a schismatick in as much as he may still keep communion with a church which doth professe the true faith . and on the other hand , a man may be a schismatick , forsaking communion with a true church , and yet not be an heretick , in as much as he may rightly beleeve all the articles of the faith . distinct they are . yet so as they are near a kin , and the one making way to the other . heresie maketh way for schism , and schism maketh way for heresie ; the one for the most part falling into the other . but not to detain you here . the schisms which we meet with in the text , import chiefly divisions in practise . such were these divisions amongst the corinthians . in doctrinals , they were for the most part agreed . in practicals they differed . now these divisions ( to follow the point home to the head ) they may be either without separation , or with it . without separation from the church ; when men holding communion with the same church , yet divide themselves into parties , siding , and banding , making head one against another , either in maintenance of some opinion , or way , or in regard of their teachers . such were the sects of the pharisees , and s●duces , and essens , amongst the jews , who notwithstanding that they did all hold communion with the same church , yet they had several opinions and wayes , and about them they were divided into sects and factions . and such were these divisions amongst these corinthians which the apostle here speaketh of . divided they were , but not wholly separated . divided about their teachers , some crying up one , some another , so siding , and making of parties , yet all holding communion with the same church . so much we may learn from the apostle , 1 cor. 11. 18. where he ●ells them , that when they came together in the church , there were divisions amongst them . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , schisms , factions , and part-takings , tending to the breach of charity , and disturbance of the church . other divisions there are which are with separation . when men shall withdraw themselves from fellowship and communion with a true church , so breaking themselves off from the body . and this ( sai●h our judicious ames ) by way of special appropriation , deserves most rightly to be called by the name of schism : in as much as heresie in this division is perfected and brought to a head , as also most clearly manifested , and declared , viz. in refusing of due church-communion . which refusal may be either partial , or total . partial , in some particular acts and exercises , wherein a man cannot ( or at least conceives he cannot ) communicate without sin . total , a rejecting , and renouncing of all religious communion . this latter all divines look upon as a schism , and that most properly so called . which ( again ) may be either from the church , or from a church . from the church catholike , the whole church . that was properly donatism ( the direct error of the seekers at this day ) : or from a particular church ; and that is properly separatism . my eye is cheifly upon the latter of these . of which ( to advance yet one step further , following the conduct of the learned chameron ) there are two kindes , or rather two degrees . there is ( to use his terms ) a negative , and a positive separation . the former is simplex secessio , when one or more do quietly and peaceably , withdraw themselves from communion with a church , onely enjoying themselves and their consciences in a private way , not making a head against that church from which they are departed . the other , when persons so withdrawing , do consociate , and draw themselves into a distinct and opposite body , setting up a church against a church : exercising the worship , and service of god , administring the ordinances , word , sacraments , censures apart in a separated body , and in a separated way . this is that which augustine , and other divines after him ( alluding to that act of king ahaz's , 2 kings 16. in setting up an altar of his own making , after the fashion of that which he saw at damascus , besides the lords altar ) call the setting up of an altar against an altar . and this it is ( saith that judicious author ) which in a peculiar manner , and by way of eminency is , and deserves to be called by the name of schism . and thus you see both the name and thing in measure opened unto you . what schisms are . viz. church divisions . which if they be in doctrine , are properly heresies ; in practise , schisms . which may be either without separation , or with it . the former are sects and factions ; the latter more properly schism . which consisteth in an unwarrantable separating and withdrawing from church-communion . whether it be from the whole church , which is donatism ; or from a particular church , which is separatism : which may be carried either in a private way by a simple secession and withdrawing , or in a publike and open-way , by setting up a church against a church ; the former a negative , the latter a positive schism . now these are the things which the apostle here with so much earnestnesse and importunacy diswades his corinthians from . and surely not without cause is it , that he should be so zealous in this cause ; as will appear , if we do but rightly consider the nature of such divisions , such schisms , which are evils , and great evils . evils . take it as you will , for the evil of punishment or sin . we shall finde it true in both : 1. schism is an evil of punishment , a judgement , and that a great one . it is one of the judgements which the prophet amos threatens against israel , amos 6. behold , the lord commandeth ( saith he ) and he will smite the great house with breaches , and the little house with clests . that place joramo applieth and that not unfitly to here●●●s . and schisms , which are as br●a●hes and clests in the church . a sad judgement . such are divisions in the state . heal the breaches thereof for it shaketh , ( saith david , speaking of the civil commotions in his kingdom ) . a judgement which we all feel of , and groan under at this day . and such are divisions in the church , a judgement , a sad and sore judgement . such are the ecclesiastical breaches in this kingdom at this day . the schisms and divisions which are broken in , and that amongst god own people : for my own part . i cannot but look upon them as one of the blackest clouds , one of the saddest judgements which hang over the head of this kingdom at this day : of sad influence for the present , and unlesse they be healed , of dangerous consequence for the future . a great judgement . 2. and ( in the second place ) a great sin . such are heart divisions amongst a people . they are both a judgement and a sin . their heart is divided ( saith the prophet hosea ) now they shall be found faulty . their heart is divided , or , he hath divided their heart , ( as the margin reads it ) . this had god done . in as much as they had divided their hearts from god , god in his just judgement divided them amongst themselves , taking away his spirit of peace , and communion from them , giving them over to seditions , and fractions , which afterward proved the ruine of their kingdom . and being thus divided now , they were found faulty , guilty of many and great evils . such is sedition in the state , and such is schism in the church , each a● evil , a mother evil , an inlet to an ocean of evils . we have to deal with the latter ( schism ) which is a sinful evil , and that no small one . peccatum gravissimum . so our judicious casuist determines it concerning schism properly so called . it is a most grievous sin . musculus informs me of some , who in point of sinfulnesse have compared it with h●resie , and others who have aggravated it beyond it , as the greater evil of the two . himself concludes it a sin of a high nature . and therein all divines agree with him . augustine that famous doctor of the church , disputing against the donatists about their schism , ( which was a separation from the whole church ) he calleth it by the name of sacriledge . sacrilegi●m schismatis . the sacriledge of schism : withall , not sparing to tell them that that schism of theirs was a greater sin then that which they took such high offence at , and which was the ground of their separation , because it was not so severely proceeded against as they judged fitting , but some that were guilty of it , were still admitted to intermeddle in the affairs of the church , ( viz. the sin of the traditores ( as they called them ) such as in time of persecution had through fear delivered up their bibles to the persecutors to be burnt ) . this sin that judicious father compares with their schism . and to try which was heaviest , he brings both to the ballance of the sanctuary : where he findes this out weighing that . so much he collects from the grievousnesse of the punishment inflicted by god upon this sin above that i , or any other . three sins he taketh notice of , each of which was grievously punished . the first was the israelites idolatry in worshipping the golden calf , exod. 22. the second was a sin not much unlike to that of the traditores , though for circumstance far more hainous , viz. that foul act of king jehoiakim in cutting and burning the prophetical rowl , jere. 36. the third was that schismatical and seditious attempt of corah and his company , rising up against moses , and assaying to make a rent , a breach amongst the people , by dividing , and separating themselves from the rest . all three hainous sins , and each grievously punished . but none of them like the last . the first , the israelites idolatry , was punished with the sword . the second , jehoiakims contempt , was punished with captivity : but the third , corahs schism , with an unheard of judgement . the earth it self , as not able or not willing to bear so great an evil , that cleaves asunder ( one division punished by another ) , and swallows up some of the authors of it ; fire from heaven consuming the residue . never such a judgement do we read of in all the scriptures executed up on any sin as this . now then ( saith he ) quis dubitaverit ? who can make any doubt but that this was the more hainous sin , which was avenged with the more grievous punishment ? whether so or more : sure i am a grievous sin it is , and must needs be so . 1. in as much as first it is opposite to so great a grace as charity is ▪ charity the queen of graces . so paul maketh it , preferring it both before faith and hope . now abideth faith , hope , and charity , these three , ( three prime theological vertues , most necessary to salvation ) , but the greatest of these is charity . so it is in some , in divers respects , greater then faith , i , then justifying faith , ( for of that the apostle there speaketh , as appeareth by joyning it with hope ) . as first , in regard of the object , which is larger then the object of faith . faith respecteth god onely , but charity both god and man . secondly , in regard of the manner of working . faith worketh intra mittendo , by receiving and letting in christ and his benefits ; but charity extra-mittendo , by giving out the soul and what a man hath , bestowing them upon god and man . now paul tells us from the lord jesus , that it is more blessed to give , then to receive . thirdly , in regard of duration and continuance . faith and hope are temporary , of use onely in this life . charity is for eternity ; not onely going to heaven with the owner , but there receiving its full perfection . thus if graces be weighed , in some respects charity weigheth down all . the great grace . and if so , then that evil which is directly opposite to this great grace , must needs be a great evil : but so is schism ; being a breach of that unity whereof charity is the bond . keeping the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , ( saith the apostle ) . now what is that bond of peace ? why , charity . this is the bond whereby the members of the church are united one to another . as they are united to christ by faith ; so one to another by love . now schism breaketh this bond , and consequently must needs be a great evil . 2. and as it is opposite to charity , so it is injurious to christ , who seemeth by this means to be ( as it were ) divided . so paul urgeth it in the third verse after the text . is christ divided ? using this as an argument to induce his corinthians to eschew all such divisions , and schisms , in as much as christ himself seemeth hereby to be parted , and torn in peices . the unity of his mystical body being hereby dissolved , and himself made the head of two disagreeing bodies ; which is dishonorable and monstrous to conceive of him . 3. as it is injurious to the head , so to the body . as to christ , so to the church . and that many wayes . 1. shaming it . the churches unity is her glory . my dove , my undefiled is one , cant. 6. now to break this unity , to divide the spouse of christ , as the levites concubine was , into many p●ices , what a shame is this ? a shame in special to the church , from which this separation is made . paul writing to his corinthians of their excluding the poor from communicating with them , he tells them , that herein they shamed them : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . they shamed them which had not as themselves had . 2. despising , and contemning it . so paul there again chargeth it . or despise ye the church of god ? why , wherein did they despise it ? this they did ( ●s by other wayes , so ) by their schimatical practices , dividing themselves from their brethren , making their love-feasts , and the sacrament it self ( both which were instituted and ordained for bands of union ) to be an occasion of fomenting their divisions , viz. by celebrating them apart from their brethren . so the apostle the●e taxeth them , verse 21. in enting , every one taketh before other his own supper . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , praeoccupat . each prevented other . this they did in their love-feasts . and this most probably they did in the lords supper it self ( as parcus conceives of it ) communicating apart , each faction by it self : those that were of paul by themselves , and those which were of peter by themselves , and those which were of apollo by themselves : none of them staying for those which were of christ ( the best and truest peice of the church ) nor yet one for another . but each seeking to prevent other , that so they might communicate apart . this paul calleth here their own supper ; in as much as they so made it , by appropriating it each to themselves and their party , contrary to the insti●ution of christ . christ had instituted i● , ●hat it should be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} & {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} totius ecclesiae , a communion , a common supper , wherein the whole church should communicate together . but they by their celebrating it in such a separated way , had made it their own supper . a ●oul perverting of the ordinance . not onely an abusing , and corrupting of it , but plainly a destroying of it . so paul there tells them in down right words , in the verse foregoing . when ye come together into one place , this is not to eat the lords supper . what then ? their own supper . of su●h dangerous consequence is it to celebrate this ordinance of god , the sacrament of the lords supper , in a separated way . if pauls judgement may be taken in the case , it is not onely a corrupting , but a perverting of the ordinance . a celebrating not of the lords supper , but of our own supper . which who so do , what do they therein but despise and contemn the church of god ? viz. that church from which they so separate . now this , if it be a true church , can be no small evil . to contemn and despi●● a private christian , by shutting him out from desired communion , there being no just cause for it , is a great evil . but to despise and contemn a church , a true church of christ , by shutting it ●ut from communion , and by separating from it , this is a far greater . 3. as the church is hereby despised , so it is disquieted . even as it is in the natural body , if there be a solutio continui ( as the physitians call it ) , so as it be divided and parted , it breedeth smart and pain , which sometimes puts the body into feaverish distempers . and surely such are the symptomes of schism . the mystical body cannot be rent and torn by divisions , but it goeth to the heart of all the sensible members of it : the divisions of reuben were great thoughts of heart , judges 5. reuben dwelling on the other side jordan , they kept themselves separate , not joyning with their brethren against their enemies , but stood as neutral , regarding more their own private then the publike interest . and possibly they were divided amongst themselves , distracted with several opinions what they should do . some would joyn , others would not . now these divisions they were great thoughts of heart , working many strange impressions in the mindes , both of themselves and others ; of very sad consequence to all the tribes of israel . and truely , such are divisions in the church of god , specially when they are boy led up to compleat and perfect schisms ( as it is in the case of separation , specially when it comes to the setting up of churches against churches ) . o these are sad thoughts of heart to the israel of god ; causing greif to the particular members of the church , and great disquiet and disturbance to the whole body . oft-times breeding those feaverish distempers , those un-christian heats of hatred , variance , emulation , wrath , strife , seditions , envyings , i , and murthers too , as the apostle puts them together , gal. 5. these , all these are the fruits of schism , by reason whereof there cannot but follow a dreadful combustion in the body of the church tending to the great trouble , and disquietment of it . 4. as the church is hereby disquieted , so hindered . as disquieted in the peace , so hindered in the edification of it . we know what it was which hindered the building of babel , even a schism in their tongues , division of languages . ( what do we think , a schism in their hands would have done , if one should have saln to pulling down what the other built up ? ) and surely , there is no one thing that can more hinder the building of jerusalem , the edification of the church then this , when christians shall be divided in their heads , hearts , tongues , hands ; in their judgements , affections , language , practise . how should the work of the lord now go on ? even as it is in civil wars , whilest the parties are contending , the common-wealth suffers : so is it in church-divisons , whilest the parties are contending , the church suffers . as it is with a ship brought to the back-staies , one say● bears the one way , and another an other , in the mean time the ship stands still . the wall and temple of jerusalem went slowly on in troublous times . so will church work do , where ever schisms , and factions break it . 5. again ( in the fifth place ) , as the church is disquieted and hindered , so indangered by it . as disquieted in the peace of it , and hindered in the edification of it , so endangered in the state of it . the cutting off of one member from the body is dangerous to the whole . what is the dismembring of a church ? the withdrawing of communion with it , the breaking off of all fellowship and communion with it by an actual and posi●ive separation . certainly , this cannot but endanger the state of that church , from which this separation is made . which if it live and continue , no thanks to them who have thus withdrawn themselves , who by their separation have done what in them lieth to destroy it . thus is schism injurious to the church of god . to these i might adde . it is also of dangerous consequence to the persons who are involved in it ; who by dividing themselves from the body , are in a dangerous way to divide themselves from the head . so our judicious casuist layeth it down . schism maketh way to heresie , and so to separation from christ . so jerome observed it in his time . nullum schisma , &c. there is no schism ( saith he ) but ordinarily in processe of time it inventeth and broacheth some heresie , that so the separation may seem to be the more justifiable . and aquinas seconds him , sicut amissio charitatis , &c. even as the losing of charity ( saith he ) maketh way for the losing of faith , ( pardon the error in that supposition ) so doth schism make way for heresie . a truth sufficiently experimented in those ancient schismaticks , the novatians and donatists , who from schism fell to be the authors or defenders of heretical opinions , and those some of them most dangerous . but we shall not need to look so far back . we have a late and dreadful instance for it in those pernicious schismaticks in new england , who falling foul with the churches , and despising the ministery there , fell afterwards into most desperate , and damnable heresies , and those so many and so foul , as i think no place or age could ever paralel them . neither shall we need to travel so far for instances . would to god we had not some even amongst our selves , who from schism are already advanced very far that way , even as far as may be on this side hell ; nay , ( if it were possible ) a step beyond it , even to the jearing at god himself . but i forbear to proceed any further . you now see some of the streams which fall into this ocean ; some of the evils which contribute their malignity to the making up of the sinfulnesse of this great evil . concerning which yet i may say that lo the one half is not told you . but let this suffice for explication , confirmation , illust●ation . that which remains is the application . which i shall direct in saint pauls way , and words : beseeching , nay , adjuring you in the name of the lord jesus , that there be no divisions , no schisms among you in this place . quest . why , but are there any such ? such there were in the church of corinth . but are there any such among us that should give ground to such an adjuration ? answ. yes ; that there are say our adversaries of rome . you are all involved in a schism , and that far more dangerous then any were to be sound in the church of corinth . in as much as you have departed from the unity of the church catholike , ( the donatists schism ) . you have broken off , and separated your selves both from the head , and body ; in withdrawing due subjection to the visible ministerial head of the church , the vicar of christ , and renouncing communion with the body , the roman catholike church . reply : in reply to this i sh●ll not waste much time , it having been already done by many more able tongues and pens . a departure we acknowledge , and a separation , but not a schism . however , not such a schism as they charge us with , a sinful schism , a schism properly so called . which that it may appear , give me leave yet a little more clearly , and distinctly to show you what such a schism , a compleat and formal schism is . will you have a definition , at least a description of it ? take it thus . it is a voluntary , and unwarrantable separation from a true church . wherein , you may take notice of four ingredients to make up this compound . there must be , first a separation ; secondly , a separation from a true church ; thirdly , a voluntary ; and fourthly , an unwarrantable separation . 1. a separation . so much the word ( as i told you ) imports . schism , from the greek {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or the latin scindere , both signifying one and the same thing , to cut , to rend , to tear , to divide in a violent way . such is schism . a formal schism is a separation , a breaking off , viz. of religious communion . which first presupposeth an vnion . where there was no union , there can be no separation , and consequently no schism . hence it is , that neither turks nor je●s stand chargeable with schism , in as much as they never were united to , nor held communion with the christian church . schism is a withdrawing and breaking off of church-communion . a going out from the church , as saint j●h● phraseth it , 1 john 2. 19. they went out from us ( saith he ) speaking of antichrists , apostates , hereticks , schismaticks . 2. a separation from a true church . so it must be , otherwise it cannot properly be a schism . a separation it may be , but not a schism schism is the cutting off of a member from a true ecclesiastical body . a cutting off . not a partial withdrawing from communion in some corruptions incident to a true church , which being done in a quiet and peaceable way cannot be called schism . but a total withdrawing , a renouncing of all church communion with such a church . 3. which separation ( in the third place ) must be voluntary . not necessitated , not enforced , whether in a natural , or moral way . where persons are unduly excluded and cast out of the church by an unjust censure of excommunication ; where they are driven away by unsufferable persecution ; or where they cannot hold communion with a church , but they must also have communion in their corruptions , their sins ; here is no voluntary secession or departure . in these cases the persons withdrawing , are fugati , not fugitivi , not separating , but separated , and consequently are thereby freed from the guilt of schism , which must be a voluntary separation . 4. and that ( in the fourth place ) unwarrantable . unwarrantable either for the ground or manner . the former an unjust ; the latter a rash separation , each a schism . 1. vnjust . when there is no just ground for dislike or distaste . when there is no persecution , no spreading error or heresie , no idolatry , no superstition maintained or practised ; but the church is peaceable , and pure , and that both for doctrine and worship : and in a good measure free from scandals ( which no church ever wholly was ) . now in such a case to separate is an unjust separation . and such a separation ( as chameron saith of it ) is extrema schismatis linea , the very highest pitch and top of schism . 2. rash . which again may be in two cases : 1. where a ground and cause is pretended , but it is but a light cause . possibly some slight opposition or persecution , it may be by some small p●cuniary mulcts , or the like : some lesser errors in doctrins , not fundamental , nor neer the foundation ; some corruptions in or about the worship of god , but those not destructive to the ordinances , being not in substance , but in ceremonie ; and those such as the person offended is not enforced to be active in : scandals few , and those onely tolerated , not allowed : all tolerable evils , such as charitie may well bear with . now in this case to separate , it is a rash separation , because it is upon a ground not sufficient , a light ground . 2. where the separation is carried in an undue way and manner . though the ground of the separation be just ; yet if it be suddain and headie , without due indeavour , and expectance of reformation in that church , it may be a rash , and consequently , an unwarrantable separation , in as much as it is opposite to charitie . so is an unjust separation : charitie ( saith the apostle ) doth not rejoyce in iniquitie ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in injustice : and so is a rash separation ; it being the nature of charitie to suffer much and long . much : charitie beareth all things , indureth all things , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( saith the apostle in the same chapter . ) it beareth with the infirmities of others , it endureth the burthens which are laid upon it selfe , viz. if they be tolerable : for so the apostle {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} must be restrained ; all things , that is , all things which are sufferable : and suffering much , it suffers long . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ( saith the fourth verse of that chapter ) charitie suffers long , it is not presently distasted , so as to fly off upon every small and triviall occasion ; no , nor yet upon a just and weighty one , without first assaying all possible meanes of remedie . so deales the warie and carefull surgeon with his patient : not presently fall to dismembring upon every slight aylement ; no , though the part be ul●erated , yet so long as there is any hope , hee forbeares that extremitie , reserving it for the last remedie . even so deales charitie by the church : not presently separate and break off communion ( which is the dismembring of a church ) for some supposed errours or corruptions , no , though really such : no , this ( saith chameron ) is not chirurgia , but carnificina ; which master cotton in his disswasive from separation englisheth rightly , applying it to the case in hand , not surgery , but butchery . put these together , you see what schisme properly so called is . now then , come wee and bring our separation from the church of rome to this beame , to this touchstone , and see whether it deserves the name of such a schisme or no . a separation wee confesse and acknowledge ; so far are we from denying of this , as that wee rather glory in it , standing to maintaine and vindicate it from all just imputation of schisme . 1. in as much ( first ) as it is not a separation from a true church . let none here be deceived and deluded with the ambiguity of a word : there is a twofold truenesse ; naturall the one , morall the other : in the former sense a cheater , a theife may be said to be a true man , and a whore a true woman , and ( till shee be divorced ) a true wife ; yea , and the divell himselfe , though the father of lies , yet a true spirit . and in this sense , wee shall not need to grutch the church of rome the name of a true church : if not so , why doe wee call her a church ? a church shee is , in regard of the outward profession of christianitie ; but yet a false church : true in existence , but false in beleefe . those divines of ours who have indulged her the one , have yet still charged her with the other ; with the same breath ( it may be ) calling her both true and false ; not one protestant pen ever yet dissenting : such shee was at that time when the waldenses , wickliffe , luther separated from her ; a just ground and warrant for their separation . and such is shee much more since , specially since their last councell of trent , being thereby so much the more riveted into , and setled upon her old corruptions . so as now all that charitie it selfe can afford her is , that which that acute doctour of our church hath granted her ; shee may be verè ecclesia , but not vera ecclesia ; truely a church , but not a true ( much lesse the true ) church : not so a true church , but that shee is also a false church , an hereticall , apostaticall , antichristian synagogue . being so , here is now warrant enough for what wee have done in separating from that church ( or rather , from the errours and corruptions of it , from the papacie in it , as the learned junius and pareus , and others of our divines rightly distinguish ) ; in so doing , we have not separated from a true church . 2. nor yet ( in the second place ) can it be truely said , that this our separation was voluntary , but necessitated , nay , enforced . 1. necessitated through their obstinacie in their errours : which , notwithstanding the discovery of them , and that so cleer , as that some of their owne have been enforced to an acknowledgement of them , and all wayes and meanes used for their reformation , they still persist in ; so as wee may well conclude their wound incurable , and themselves incorrigible : what then remains , but a cutting off ? so saith the prophet concerning babylon , wee would have healed babylon , but shee is not healed . what then followeth ? forsake her , and let us goe every one to his owne countrey : a warrant sufficient , not onely for a negative secession , but for a positive separation from mysticall babylon . wee would have healed her , but shee is not healed ; no wayes , no means that could be thought of , have been neglected for her cure . how many physicians have had her in hand ? luther , and zuinglius , and calvin , and the rest of our learned and pious reformers , a whole colledge of physicians ; but all to no purpose ; shee is not , shee will not be cured . what then remaines , but that wee should withdraw and forsake her ; which cannot be construed as a voluntary , but a necessitated separation . nay , 2. inforced , and that through her violence exercised upon all those who will not hold communion with her in her corruptions ; not permitting any to trade , to buy or sell , to have either religio●s , or civill communion with her , except they receive her marke in their hands , or foreheads . but on the other hand , anathematizing them , thundring out excommunications against them , which ( for feare they should be forgotten ) are solemnly renewed every yeer upon their holy thursday ( as they call it : ) withall , prosecuting them with fire and sword , to confiscation of estates , losse of libertie , and life it selfe . these things considered , let god and the world judge betwixt us and them , whether our separation from them be voluntary or no . 3. however , ( in the third place ) whether voluntary or no , sure we are , it is not unwarrantable , being neither unjust , nor rash . 1. not unjust : being warranted both by authoritie of scripture , not onely allowing , but commanding this separation , and that under a dreadfull penaltie , come out of her , my people ( so saith the the voice from heaven concerning mysticall babylon ) revel. 18. as also by the ground and cause of this separation , which is not some light and tolerable errours ; but heresies , idolatries : errours in doctrine , and these , if not directly , yet by consequence , and that immediate consequence , fundamentall . corruptions in worship , both foule and grosse ; and that such , as those which hold communion with her , cannot but partake in . now , whether this be not a warrantable ground for separation from her , let the same voice from heaven speak ; come out of her , my people , that yee be not partakers of her sinnes , and that yee receive not of her plagues : no unjust separation then . 2. nor yet rash : there having ( as i said ) all the means been used for her reformation and cure that possibly could be thought of ; but all to no purpose : so as after this , what remains but a positive secession and separation ? now put these together , and see whether this our departure from the church of rome deserves to be stigmatized and branded ( as by them it is ) with the name of schism , or no : or yet to be drawn in , and made use of by any ( as by some it is ) for the patronage or countenance of any of the schisms of the times . if this be a schism , it is a good and a warrantable schism . qu. but are there any amongst us which are not so ? answ. here i wish i could make answer with the like cleernesse and freenesse as before . but , alas , what meaneth the lowing of the oxen , and the bleating of the sheep ? i mean , the confused noise of our lesser and greater divisions , which ring so loud in the ears of the whole christian world at this day . scarce any part of the kingdome free from some kinde or other of them : the church therein following the temper of the state , as the soule oft-times doth of the body : divisions both doctrinall and practicall . the text confines me to the later : of those , how many every-where ? and that not onely such as these in the church of corinth were , divisions without separation , sects , and sactions : but divisions of an higher nature , amounting to no lesse then direct separation ; and that not barely to a negative , but to a positive separation , to the setting up of altars against altars , churches against , churches . that it is so de facto , i think it will not , it cannot be denyed . would to god the church of god in this kingdome , and in this place did not feel the smart of it . qu. but is this new separation a schism in earnest , or no ? there is the question . in the answering whereof i shall deal as tenderly as i may , ( only so , as i may not betray the truth and cause of god , or the peace of this place wherein god hath made me one of his ( though unworthy . ) ministers ) having an unfained respect to the persons of many who are ingaged in this unhappy cause . answ. for resolution , i shall deale with this as i dealt with the former ; bring it to the same balance , weigh it at the same beame . what schism , and schism properly so called is , you have heard , and i think the description will not be excepted against ; viz. a voluntary unwarrantable separation from a true church . now whether this practise be such a schisme , or no , let it be enquired of in the particulars . 1. where the first enquirie will bee , touching the church , from which this departure is made , whether it be a true church , or no . here it is not my purpose , to multiplie controversies , which i rather desire ( if it were possible ) might be brought to a unity . and therefore i shall wholy wave the dispute about a nationall church : whether the church of england be a true church , or no . letting that goe ; let the question be about particular congregations , parochiall churches , ( as wee call them . ) whether these ( i dare not say all , but some of them ; suppose that wherein wee now are , and the like , ) be true churches , or no . true churches , and that not only physically , but morally such . not only truly churches ( which is granted to the church of rome ) but true churches . now as for this , ( me thinks ) . i might well spare the labour of proving it , and take it for granted , having so much charity as to hope , that whatever any rash and violent spirits amongst us may think and speak , yet those who are judiciously godly , have more charity then to disclaim us for such . if they dare , i wish they would speak out . but so it seemeth it is , that even this bitter root of rigid separation ( as a reverend brother rightly calls it ) begins to grow & spring up again amongst us , there wanting not some , who stick not to maintain and justifie this their separation from this ground , because we are no true churches of christ . for their sakes , ( or rather for yours in defence of the cause of god agaainst them , ) let mee speak a few words , and but a few . 1. are not our congregations . true churches ? what are not here the pillars of truth ? is not the word of truth , the gospell of salvation , here held forth , and that in an ordinary and constant way , even as the edicts and proclamations of princes are wont to be held forth by pillars to which they are affixed ? now if so , shall wee question whether here be true churches of christ or no ? heare the apostle , 1 tim. 3. that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thy self in the house of god , which is the church of the living god , the pillar and ground ( or stay ) of truth . where the pillar of truth is , there is the house of god , the church of god . where the light of gods truth is set up and held forth in a loving way , to the guiding of passengers in the way to eternall life ; are not here the golden-candlestick ? and if so , shall wee question whether here be true churches or no ? let the spirit of truth decide it . the seven candlesticks , which thou sawest , are the seven churches , revel. 1. so many golden candlesticks , so many churches . here is a first evidence ; where the light of the gospell is held forth ordinarily in a publick and ministeriall way to a people that professes to walk by the direction of it , can it be questioned whether there bee a church , a true church or no ? secondly , where the seales of gods covenant , the sacraments of the new testament , are for substance rightly dispenced , according to the institution of jesus christ ; can it be questioned whether there be a true church or no ? where the seales of the covenant are , there is the covenant it self ; the visible covenant ; and where that is , there is a church . to them pertained the covenants ( saith the apostle , speaking of the church of the jewes . ) now who will deny these appurtenances to our churches ? here are the seales of the covenant , and consequently the covenant it self . arg. 3. and as the covenant , so the glory . to them pertained the glory of the covenants , ( so paul putteth them together . ) the glory , ●iz . the arke of the covenant ; a testimony of gods gracious and glorious presence . now where this is , shall wee question whether there be a true church or no ? where there is the presence of christ , in the midst of his ordinances , so as in an ordinary way , they are made effectuall to the conversion , and salvation of many ; where christ sitteth , walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks , displaying his power and glory , can it be questioned whether there bee true churches of christ , or no ? but that he hath done , and doth this in some of our congregations , i think it will not be denyed . it must be an envious hand that will dare to write [ jchabod ] upon the doore● of some of these houses . argu. 4. where there are societies of visible saint● , all such by outward profession , and some of them , a considerable part of them , walking in measure , answerably to that profession ; can it be questioned whether there be true churches of christ , or no ? to the church of god , which at corinth , to them which are sanctified in christ jes●● , called to be saints . it is the apostles superscription to this epistle , in the s●cond verse of the chapter ; where the latter clause is but an exegesis , an explication of the former . a true church of god , and a company of visible saints , are one and the same . ob. why , but wee are not all such . answ. no more were they in this church of corinth . the incestuous person , and many others amongst them , they were strange saints : yet a church , a true church . a company of visible saints joyning together in the ordinances of god , though there be an unapprovable mixture of some heterogeneous members amongst them , maketh a church a true church . now , as for these , all these , i think it cannot , it will not be denyed , but that they are to be found in some of our churches : here are pillars of truth , golden candlesticks , the doctrine of the gospel truely and purely preached : here are the seales of the covenant , the sacraments ( for substance ) rightly administred : here is the glory , the presence of christ in his ordinances , ordinarily concurring with them , and giving efficacy to them , for the begetting and nourishing up of christian soules unto eternall life : here are congregations prefessing subjection to the ordinances of christ ; a considerable part whereof are visible saints , walking answerably to that profession . object . true , saith the brownist , ( for so i must look upon all those who shall deny the truth of our churches , as separatists , and that rigid ones ) suppose all this be granted ; yet here are great defects , and those no lesse then destructive , making your churches to be no true churches . but what are they ? why possibly some of them will not spare to say , that we have no true ministery . answ. if not ; why then do they retain that baptisme which they received through our hands ? qu. but why have wee no true ministery ? here possibly some will cry out upon us as antichristian , charging us , that wee have received our calling from rome , viz. by the imposition of the hands of those who had their calling and ordination from thence . answ. as for them , i shall put them and the church of rome together to debate the point , and so leave them . the church of rome challengeth us , that wee are no true ministers : why ? because wee have not received our ordination from them . the separatist on the other hand , hee cryes out upon us , wee are no true ministers : why ? because we have received our ordination thence . sure both cannot speak truth . i shall therefore here leave them to dispute it out ; whilest in the mean time i speak a word or two with those who are of somewhat more cool and 〈◊〉 . object . wee are no true ministers ( say they . ) why ? because wee have not received our calling from the people . wee are neither ordained , nor elected by them . answ. to this charge , take this reply in breif . first , as for our calling , wee acknowledg we have not received it from them , but from jesus christ our lord and theirs . his servants wee are , and in his name do wee execute our ministeriall offices and functions , not in the churches . secondly , as for our ordination , wee acknowledg the same . we had it not from the people , and we blesse god wee had it not . in asmuch as wee finde neither precept , nor president for it in scripture ; neither untill this last-last age , was there ever any such custome in the churches of god . thirdly , as for our election , if a popular vote be in this case needfull , some of us , many of us , can herein plead a fore-consent , most of us ( i presume ) an after-consent . now let me aske this question , what was it that made leah jacobs wife ? shee was not so the first night he bedded with her . why ? there came an after-con●ent , a ratihibition ( as the lawyers call it ) which made the mariage valid . and such a consent ( i presume ) must , if not all , the godly ministers in this kingdome have . if not an explicit ; yet an implicit consent , which is ejusdem valoris , of the same weight . so as if their first entrance were not so orderly , yet , this after-act maketh , or rather acknowledgeth them to be true ministers . object . 2. but supposing our ministery to be true , yet wee want an ordinance , and that one of the three , the first three , viz. discipline ? answ. suppose this defect , yet cannot that destroy the essence of a church . it was not the want of the golden-snuffers , or some other like utensiles in the temple , that could make it to be no temple . discipline maketh for the well being , not for the being of a church . secondly , ( but in the second place ) however the exercise of this ordinance , be in some particular acts for a time suspended , yet is not the ordinance it self alienated , which , being an appendix to the word and sacraments , cannot ( in respect of the right of it ) be separated from the church . object . 3. but here is no right constitution . our churches were not rightly gathered at the first , neither are the members of them combined in a church-covenant , which is the forme of a church . answ. suppose this also , that there were some errours in the constitution of our churches ; yet will not that make them no true churches : inasmuch as constitution in that way is only an appendance of an externall form , no part of the essence of a true church . 2. but neither must this be granted : master cotton himselfe in this case pleads our cause , remembring us ( not without warrant from antiquitie ) that the first churches in this kingdome were gathered either by some of the apostles themselves , or by apostolicall men : which being so , ( as himselfe inferres ) wee cannot but conceive that they were rightly gathered and planted according to the rule of the gospel . so that all the work now is ( saith hee ) not to make them churches which were none before ; but to reduce and restore them which are , to their primitive institution . 3. as for combination by church-covenant , doctor ames truely states it , that an implicite covenant in this case is sufficient : now such a covenant do all make , who joyne themselves to a church , holding a constant communion with it in the ordinances of christ . so much and no more can be extorted from that phrase of joyning to the apostles , of which we read , act. 5. 13. where it is said , that after that exemplary judgement executed upon ananias and sapphyra for their hypocriticall profession , of the rest , ( saith the text ) no man durst joyne himself unto them . and so it is said of paul , act. 9. when he came to jerusalem , he assayed to joyn himself to the disciples ; that is , to have fellowship and communion with them : the word is the same with that which we meet with act. 8. 29. where the spirit speaking to philip , bids him go and joyn himself to the eunuchs chariot : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , proximè adjungitor ; that is , goe neer it , so as he might have converse and conference with the eunuch . and so doe they , who in a constant way come and sit down under such a ministery , holding communion with such a people in all the ordinances of god , they joyn themselves to the church in that place : which being an implicit covenant , cannot be denyed to be sufficient to the constituting of true members of a church . but i shall waste no more time upon this subject , in vindicating the truth of our churches ▪ which hath already been done so strongly ▪ so convincingly by others ; that certainly it cannot but be either great wilfulnesse , or great weaknesse , not to acknowledge them so to be . taking this then for granted , which is by our judicious brethren acknowledged , and , i think , will not be denied by any moderate spirit ; now proceed we to a second enquirie ; and that is , quest . whether here be a separation or no from these true churches ? answ. that there hath been so , i presume it will not be denyed by any who ever heard of the brownists errour ; of which rigid way , i wish there were not yet too many to be found , both in this , and other places of the kingdome ; such as professe separation , and glorie in it . but i passe by them : the persons i have here properly to deale with , are such as would be thought to come neerer to us , and yet are divided from us ; such as ( in word at least ) owne us for true churches , and yet withdraw communion with us : and that , not onely in a negative way , ( as peter and some other of the jewes are said to have separated from the gentiles , gal. 2. before that certain ( that is , certain jewes ) came from james ( viz. from jerusalem ) hee did eat with the gentiles : but when they were come , hee withdrew , and separated himselfe , &c. and other jewes dissembled likewise with him . the very case of some in this and other places of the kingdome : before that certain of another way came from the other side , they did eat with us , they held communion with our churches ; but upon their coming , they have withdrawn and separated themselves : ) but also in a positive way , combining themselves into separated societies , ●etting up of churches some of them in churches , and against churches ; exercising the worship of god in a separated way , refusing communion with us , whether for them to have communion with us , or for us to have communion with them . so is it in divers parts of the kingdome ; and i wish i might not say , that it were so in this place . repl. but doe wee not charge them wrongfully ? separation is a thing which they professe against , and they call in their practice to bear witnesse to their profession . occasionally they will joyn with us in some acts of publick worship , viz. in hearing , and preaching the word ; hearing our ministers , and preaching to our people . answ. true , some of them haply will doe the former : some , i say , not all ; for wee must know , that in this division ( as commonly it is in all divisions ) there are subdivisions . some of this way will hear us in this place ; a second sort will hear their owne ministers here , but not ours ; a third sort will neither heare ours , nor their own within these walls . but some of them will . and so they may by their owne principles , and yet have no church-communion with us : hear us as gifted men , not as persons in off●●● : hear us as teachers , but not as ministers , ( a distinction without a difference . ) besides , hearing ( say they ) is no act of church-communion . eating one bread at the lords table , that indeed is properly communion ( say they ; ) but not hearing one word . and as for occasionall hearing , it is agreed at all hands , it is not properly an act of church-communion , which is no more then infidels and heathens may doe , who have no communion with the churches of christ . and so for preaching to us ; this they may doe occasionally , nay constantly , and yet have no communion with us , nor yet preaching to us as churches of christ ( which some of that way have openly and freely disclaimed in way of preface to their sermons ) no more then they may doe to turks and indians , with whom yet they have no communion . as for that ordinance wherein church-communion ( as they conceive it ) properly lyeth , therein they totally decline us . from my heart i wish there were not so much truth in this charge . repl. but this cannot properly be called a separation ; a separation imports a praeunion , a union by a church-agreement : now where there never was such an agreement , there cannot properly be a separation , and consequently , not a schism . answ. to this i have laid the foundation of an answer already , by distinguishing betwixt an explicite and an implicite church-agreement or covenant : the former is verball and formall , the later reall . now as for this later , an implicite agreement , i presume it will not be denyed to our churches , otherwise they were no churches . and if it be granted , then to withdraw communion with them may stand chargeable with the guilt of separation , and consequently , of schism , as truely , as really , as if they had been gathered by an explicite formall church-covenant . as for such a covenant expressed in words , however some may conceive it to make for the bene esse , the well being , the orderly gathering of a church , ( which my self will not wholly deny ; ) yet for the esse , the simple being of it , i think few or none will affirme it . and if there may be a church where there is no such covenant ; then there may be a separation from that church , and that separation a schisme : otherwise the brownists , nay , the donatists separation had been no schisme , in as much as they did not separate from churches so gathered , and combined by an explicite church-covenant : which , whatever may be pleaded for the conveniencie of it , yet certainly , as it is distinct from the covenant of grace , it is but a prudentiall way , no other then a humane , and that a novell invention . so then , as yet the charge runs on : here are true churches , and here is a separation from these churches . qu. a third inquirie followes , whether this separation be voluntary and spontaneous , or no . if so ; this will contribute much to the making up of the formalitie of this schism . now whether so , or no , let it be enquired , what coaction , what necessity there hath been , and is , for such a departure . 7. for the former , coaction , and violent expulsion , what-ever the former times might have done , yet i hope the present will not take up that plea : if so be the violence and rigour of the one did drive some away , yet , mee thinks , the lenity and indulgence of the other might invite them to return to communion again with that church , those churches which are so willing , so desirous to receive them into their bosomes . repl. but there was , there is a necessitie of this departure . why so ? why , were there no more but this , the unequall division of your congregations in many places necessitates a division . for instance , in this ( and so in many other places of the kingdome ) your congregations are too great , too numerous , the people too many to joyn together in a convenient way in church-communion . now in this case , a withdrawing of some is necessary ; as it is for bees to flight , when the hive is too strait for them . answ. in answer to this , i shall not spare again to acknowledge what i have formerly both preached and published ; that in this place ( and so i suppose it is in divers other in the kingdome ) there is but too just a ground for this complaint : and my desire still is , ( as i then expressed it ) that this inconvenience might be remedied by an orderly division . far be it from me , and from all the ministers of jesus christ , to cry out against divisions upon so base and unworthy a ground as this , because wee would ingrosse a people wholly to our selves , though too many for us to have the inspection over . this it was which made the souldiers in the gospel so unwilling to have the seamlesse coat of christ divided , because each of them hoped and desired to have it whole and entire to himself . and this it was ( as musculus aptly applies that storie ) which made those foure colonels , the four patriarchs of the church , the patriarch of jerusalem , alexandria , constantinople , and rome , each to complain of the rending and tearing of the church by divisions : why ? because every one of them aspired to be commander in chief , universall bishop , and so to have had the whole to himselfe . and this it is which ever since hath made that grand schismatick the pope , ( so hee is the greatest schismatick in the world ) to cry out so much against schism , because by every such division his greatnesse suffers some diminution . now far be such base ends from the thought of any minister of christ : for my self , ( i professe ) i am so far from grutching an orderly division in this place , that i shall not rest satisfied till i see it accomplished : which i do not wholly despair to do , if some of those who take up this complaint for their own advantage , be not the hinderers of it . 2. but yet in way of reply , i might ( in the second place ) minde them who take up this plea in this place , that however this congregation be great , and too great , yet can it not be imagined to be so great as that at jerusalem must needs be ; which yet is so earnestly contended for by those of that way , that it was but one congregation , one church . 3. however , ( in the third place ) whether this be the true ground of this separation or no , let the emptie seates of diverse engaged in this division , being constantly in my eye , let them give evidence . if so be they for their parts want no convenient accommodation , for participating in publike ordinances ; this plea in reference unto them , must be acknowledged to be in a great measure , ( if not wholy ) void and null . repl. but though here should be no naturall , yet there is a morall necessity of separating . and why so ? why , in one word , we cannot hold communion with you without sinne . why not ? why , in regard of those sinfull mixtures which are tolerated among you . your congregations are miscellaneous companies , of all gatherings ; wherein there is not that due separation of the wheat from the chaffe , the pretious from the vile , which ought to be : but all sorts are admitted even to sacramentall communion . now this your not separating , necessarily putteth us upon separating , that so wee may not be intangled in the guilt of your sin . answ. here is the common and great argument ; the strongest hold which our brethren of that way put most confidence in . but how weake , how unable to defend this their practise , when we have veiwed it a little , it will soone appear . answ. 1. in the first place , i might here minde them and you , of what is very considerable , how that this hath been the common stock . whereupon schism hath usually been grafted ; the common plea and pretence , which for the most part hath been taken up by all schismaticks , in defence of their separation from the church . in the third and fourth centuries , the third and fourth hundreds of years after christ , wee read of three great and famous schisms , the first of the novacians , the second of the audeans , the third of the donatists , all separating from the church . and what was the pretended ground of that their separation ? why , still the over great indulgence of the church , ( as they thought ) in receiving into , or keeping in her bosome , some whom they conceived unworthy of her communion . this was the thing which novatus cryed out against , that any of those who in time of persecution had fallen , should be received again into the fellowship of the church , i , though upon the manifestation of their repentance . and because he could not therein be hearkned to , he and his party separated from the church , petending to greater purity in their way , then was to be found in any other churches upon earth : whence they were called ( or rather called themselves ) by the name of cathari , puritans , a word which the devill hath since made great use of , for the discountenancing of all power of godlynesse . and this it was which audaeus , the father of that second schism took so great offence at ; first the pompe and pride of the bishops of his time , together with their imperious insolency , in tyrannizing , over the flock committed to them ; which being a great eye-sore to him ( and that justly , ) he had often openly and tartly declamed against . * and besides , through the remisnesse of discipline , there were divers vsurers and vncleane persons tolerated in the church . and the very same ground it was , that donatus afterwards separated upon . being offended at the connivence shewed towards those traditores ( of whom i told you ) he falleth off from communion with the church , setting up his altar against her altar ( as augustine saith of him , ) gathering a church , in and against the church , pretending to greater strictnesse and purity , then was elsewhere to be found , severing from their communion all those whom they looked upon as sinners , and judged not pure enough to joyne with them . from this head then sprang those first and famous schisms in the church . and from the same root sprang that latter schism of the anabaptists , which is now putting up here again in many parts of the kingdom at this day . the first , and great distaste which they took at the reformed churches , and whereupon they separated , was , the scanlous lives of ministers , and people , that they did not walk answerably to their professions , but were given over to all manner of scandalous evils ; and yet notwithstanding that they were promiscuously admitted to the sacrament of the lords supper , without any censure or discipline exercised upon them . and i shall not need to tell you that it was the very same stone at which browne and his followers first stumbled , renouncing our church upon this very ground . now , were there nothing else , me thinks this alone might render this pretence very suspicious , in that it hath still been taken up by most schismaticks in most ages of the church , and made the ground of their separations , which ye● have ever been universally condemned as unjustifiable and unwarrantable for all that . that rock which so many have been split upon , me thinks it should make christians very shie and wary how they dash against it . but i will not wholly prejudge this cause , let it have a fair hearing , that so we may see what strength ( or rather weaknesse ) there is in this plea in reference to the church , or churches of god amongst us at this day . alleg. we have unwarrantable mixtures among us , and that even in our sacramentall communion . answ. here is a blot ( i must confesse ) which i heartily wish i were able wholly to wipe off from the churches face in this kingdom ; mixtures there have been , mixtures there are ; and for my part i shall not undertake the patronage or defence of them . from my heart i wish that there were in all our churches a due and orderly separation , for the healing and preventing of that which is , or may be disorderly ( such a purge could not but be very proper in this spring time of reformation and errours . ) however that the sacrament of the lords supper may be kept ( as it ought to be ) as a sacred and holy mystery , not to be prostituted to all commers , how visibly unworthy , and uncapable soever : which , where it is allowed or practised , i must acknowledge it a just scandall . but yet let not the church of god in this kingdom be too deeply charged with this guilt . suppose it that ( de facto ) such unwarrantable mixtures have been , and yet ●●e to be found , yet cannot be properly put upon the churches score . what her ordinance was touching the keeping back of scandalous persons from the sacrament , they which have read her ancient rubrick , cannot be ignorant ; and what at this day it is , let the late directory speak , which expressely excludes all persons ignorant and scandalous , as not meet to partake in that holy mystery . now , what though there have been , and ( it may be ) yet are some deplorable failings in the execution hereof , thorough some past and present unhappy obstructions in the exercise of discipline , yet cannot the church properly stand charged with them . nor yet are all particular congregations so deeply chargeable with this particular errour . what care hath already been taken in this place for the removall of this scandall , it hath not been so privatly carried , but that all in the place ( i presume ) have been either eye or eare witnesses of it ; and i doubt not but there hath been the like , if not greater circumspection that way in many other congregations of the kingdom : so as this pretended soar of mixt communion may be conceived to be in a fair and hopefull way of cure . quest . but suppose the worst , that it should not be so throughly healed , our congregations not so throughly purged as our brethren desire they should be ; yet what is this such a plague-soar , as that there is no abiding in the house with it ? doth this inforce a necessity of separation ? answ. here ( in the first place ) let it be enquired , whether the purging which our brethren desire , be such as the word requires or no ? possibly in this case they may fish with a net of a larger and wider maske then ever the first fishermen , peter , and the rest of the apostles did ; a net which will take none but grown fishes . as for weak christians , and persons inoffensive in their lives and conversations , unlesse they can give positive , clear , and demonstrative evidences of the work of grace in their hearts , it may be they will adjudge them unworthy of their communion . now , if so , we must here crave pardon if we go not up with them to the height of strictnesse , which we think the word will not bear us out in ; herein we must professe to exercise as much charity as a holy discretion regulated by the word will permit us , accounting it the safest course rather ampliare favores , to inlarge gospelfavours and priviledges , reaching them forth to all such as we have no just and clear exception against , then to withold them from any to whom they of right appertain . and herein we presume we shall do no more then what we have good warrant from our lord and master for , who in the dayes of his flesh made good what was fore-told of him , not breaking the bruised reed , not quenching the smoaking flax ; but dealing gently , and tenderly with weak and feeble ones , reaching forth supportation and comfort to them as occasion was offered . 2. but ( in the second place ) suppose it , that herein we should fall short , not coming up to such an exact separation as the word requires , but that still some persons be retained in the bosome of the church , and received to her communion , which are in truth unworthy of it . what then , doth this laodicean temper in the church inforce a separation from it ? alleg. to this our separating brethren will plead that it doth ; and that upon the forenamed ground , because by communicating with such persons , they shall also be intangled in their sinne , at least in the churches sinne , in tolerating them . now in this case ( say they ) the warrant runs clear . come out of her my people , that yee be not partakers of her sinnes ; where it once cometh to this , that in holding communion with a church , we must of necessity have communion in her sin , here is a necessity of separation from her . answ. to joyn with them upon this issue : in the first place , we might not without just cause here demur upon the proposition ; in as much as put the case a man cannot hold communion with a church in some particular act or exercise without sinne , yet is he not thereupon bound to separate from her . it was the case of the pious and reverend non-conformists of the last age , they were perswaded ( many of them ) that they could not hold communion with the church of england in receiving the sacrament in the gesture prescribed without sin , yet did they not thereupon separate from her . true , in that particular act they with-drew , but yet so , as they held communion with her in the rest ; farre from a negative , much more from a positive separation . but letting that passe . that which we shall insist upon , is this . that communion may be held with such a church wherein there are some unwarrantable mixtures tolerated , and yet without sin . the reason is plain . god hath not made all private christians stewards , nor yet surveyours in his house , so as that every one should take an exact notice of the conditions of all those whom they hold communion with , who are fit to be members of the church , and who not ; who are fit to come to the lords table , and who not . no , let them look to themselves . that is pauls rule , 1 cor. 11. 28. let a man examine himself , and so let him eate of that bread , and drink of that cup●● here is an exercise proper and usuall for private christians , each one to try and examine himself : which if rightly and throughly done , it would make men lesse intent upon others . as for others , they must stand or fall to their own master . look thou to thy self ; if others be not what they should be , see that thou beest what thou oughtest to be . in the mean time be not distasted with the church for their sakes . it is cyprians counsell cited by aretius , and it is very wholsome and proper for these times . what though there be some tares discovered in the church , ( saith he ) yet let not that be an impediment either to our faith or charity , so as to make us desert that church wherein we see such a mix●ure ; but let us for our parts labour every of us that we may be found good corn , that so when god shall come to gather his crop into his garner , we may not be cast out . in a great house ( so he goeth on ) the apostle will tell us , that there are not only vessels of gold and silver , but also of wood and earth : now let it be our care and indeavour to make this sure that we are of the former sort , that we be vessels of honour : as for the other , leave them to their maker . god hath not made private christians stewards , or surveyours in his house . 2. much lesse ( in the second place ) fanners in his floore . this work is primarily christs , who hath his fan in his hand , and he shall thoroughly purge his floore . and ministerially the church-officers whom christ hath betrusted with the ordering of his church according to the rule of the word ; them hath he made the porters in his house , for the opening and shutting of the doors of the churches communion , by the keyes of doctrine and discipline . now in this case , if either their hands be tyed by any human restrictions of civill authority , not permitting them to exercise that power which christ hath committed to them , and of right belongeth to them , or if thorough remisnesse and negligence they shall let loose the reins of discipline beyond what is fitting ; in this case themselves may be guilty , others may be guilty : but as for private christians , being not accessory to either of these , how they by their bare communicating with persons so tolerated , should come to be entangled in the guilt of that sinne , it cannot be conceived . repl. no ? the apostle saith it expresly , 1 cor. 5. 6. know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump ? this he speaks touching the incestuous person , who by his continuance in the church of corinth uncast out , indangered the whole flock . answ. indangered ? true , so hee did , and so do scandalous sinners where-ever they are tolerated in a church ; they doe indanger the rest of the members , viz. by their evill examples , and in that respect ought to be cast out from communion , that so the church may be preserved from infection : but yet it doth not thereupon follow , that all the members should presently be made guilty by that toleration . true indeed , in case they doe not lay that sin to heart , be humbled for it , and use all lawfull means for remedie , ( which was the case of the church of corinth at that time , notwithstanding that , and many other scandalous evils were tolerated amongst them , yet they were secure , thinking highly of themselves , glorying in their church-state , perinde acsi omnia fuissent apud se aurea , ( to use calvins words ) as if all had been pure and perfect with them ; this glorying of theirs paul here tels them it was not good , your glorying is not good , that is , very evill and sinfull : ) in this case indeed they may make themselves accessory to the sin ; but not barely through communion with that church wherein such an evill is tolerated : the similitudes are obvious and common , one scabbed sheep , one rotten grape , one gangrenated member , in continuance of time will infect the whole flocke , the whole bunch , the whole bodie , viz. by transmitting and communicating the malignitie which is in themselves to the rest . but it doth not therefore follow , that the whole is infected , because a part is so : or , to hold to the apostles proverbiall allegorie there , a little leaven , by lying long in a masse of paste , will in time leaven the whole , viz. by transfusing its sowrenesse into all the other parts ; but it doth not therefore follow , that the whole lump is presently leavened , because the leaven is there . thus a scandalous person , one or more , tolerated in a church , may by his or their evill example , made the more dangerous through impunitie , communicate the infection of his or their sin unto others : yet are not all the members of the church thereupon presently involved in the guilt of that sin to which they are no wayes accessory . to inlarge no further in a case so cleer . you see how the charge of schisme still runs on : here is a separation ; a separation from a true church ; a voluntarie separation from a true church . quest . the fourth and last enquirie is yet behinde ; and that is , whether this be a warrantable separation or no . that some separation may be so , i have shewen you already . whether this be so or no , that is the question . and yet no question , in case it shall be demonstrated to be either an unjust , or rash separation : both which , i feare , upon the tryall it will be found to bee . 1. an unjust separation : such ever is a totall separation from a true church . true , a partiall separation in some cases may be warrantable ; but a totall separation , a renouncing of all communion with a true church , can in no case be so : so our judicious casuist rightly determines it . no more is this separation ( what-ever it be ) which is made from our churches . 1. in as much ( first ) as it hath no warrant from the scripture to bear it out . repl. no ( say some of that way ) ? yes that it hath : what else means that known charge , come out of her my people ? answ. wee answer , it is the voyce of god calling his people to separation from mysticall babylon . now , let those our rigid brethren once prove us a limb of that antichristian bodie , and then we shall acknowledge their separation just . alleg. but yet rome both was , and is a true church , so as there may be a totall separation from a true church , and yet not unjust . answ. how rome may be said to be a true church , i have shewen you already ; not so true , but that shee is false : so to grant her the one , as to deny the other , is larger charitie then ever protestant pen yet afforded her . now , if our brethren will acknowledge us to be a true church in no other sense but that ( as i feare , the charitie of some of them will reach no farther ) wee shall have little cause with thankfulnesse to acknowledge their acknowledgement . repl. but what say wee to that expresse text which speaks so full for separation , both name and thing ? 2 cor. 6. wherefore come out from among them , and be ye separated ( saith the lord ) and touch no unclean thing , &c. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , be yee separate . answ. true , from infidels and idolaters ; of such the apostle there speaketh : and with such , christians are not to have intimate societie and communion , lest thereby they be drawne to the imitation of their sinnes , and so to the participation of their punishments ; specially , to have religious communion with them in their idolatrie . in this case ( saith the apostle ) touch not the unclean thing . however a civill converse and commerce may be had with such ; yet into their secrets , their mysteries , let not our soules enter : more then this cannot be extorted from that text . now let the charge be made good against us , that we are such , then we shall acknowledge a separation from us just . repl. why , but that knowne place in the former epistle will reach us and our mixt communion , which is there cleerly held forth as a sufficient ground and warrant for separation : now i have written to you ( saith the apostle ) not to keep companie . if any man that is called a brother be a fornicatour , or covetous , &c. with such a one no not to eat . answ. to this , how specious and promising soever , an answer is soon returned : that which paul there prohibits is not properly a religious , but a civill communion ; that hee meanes by not companying : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , non commisceri ; not to mingle themselves with such scandalous livers , as that incestuous person was , viz. by a voluntary , familiar , and intimate conversation : so hee explains himselfe in that other clause , [ with such a one no not to eate : ] that is , in an ordinary way repariring to their tables , or inviting them to yours , which is a token of intimate familiaritie and friendship . but what is this to the lords table , or to religious communion ? repl. yes ( say they ) that it is . if wee may not have civill , much lesse religious communion with such a one : if we may not eat with him at our tables , much lesse at the lords table . answ. not so neither : in as much as the one is an arbitrarie and voluntary , the other , a necessary communion . whether to have intimate societie , civill familiaritie with such a one or no , it is in our owne choice : not so in religious communion . now of such a communion must the apostle there be understood , a voluntary and unnecessary communion : quatenus liberum est ( saith calvin upon it ) so far as wee are left to our owne libertie , wee ought to decline the societie of persons openly scandalous , ( specially , in case once they be brought under the censure of the church , the censure of excommunication ( which is the particular case in that chapter : ) persons scandalous , they ought to be excluded from religious communion with the church ; with such the church should not eat , they ought not to be admitted to the sacrament of the lords supper : and being excluded from her communion , christians ought not to entertaine unnecessary societie with them . ) otherwise , civill communion with them may be had . peter martyr putteth one case : suppose a travellour in his journey ( a case too ordinary ) cannot be commoded with diet or lodging but in a profane inne or alehouse , may hee not therefore take in there ? and calvin puts the like : suppose a man coming to an ordinarie , see an excommunicate person there , may hee not sit downe and eate with him ? in these cases a man is not left to his owne libertie and free choice : no more is a christian in his religious communnion . whether hee will come to the lords table or no , it is not left to his owne choice ; it is his dutie , not his libertie . and therefore , suppose the company communicating with him be not every wayes such as hee could desire , suppose some of them apparantly unworthy , yet is hee not thereupon to abstaine from that ordinance , much lesse to separate from that church whereof god hath made him a member . to this i might add , the one of these is an inward , the other onely an outward communion : the communion which a beleever hath with an unbeleever in eating of the sacrament , is no other but what the unbeleever there hath with christ , an outward and visible communion : but in intimate societie there is an inward communion ; so as there is a broad difference betwixt the one and the other . here then is no warrant which can yet be found in scripture to make this separation warrantable and just . repl. but is it not sufficiently warrantable in the ground and cause of it ? answ. not so neither in reference to our churches ( i speak still for some , not for all ) wherein , what-ever blots may be found , let me yet say , there were as great ( if not greater ) in the church of corinth . have wee some some scandalous persons tolerated amongst us ? so had they . have we a mixture in our communion ? so had they . a strange mixture , specially if that word be to be taken properly , ( as some expositours conceive it must be , ) which the apostle layeth in their sacramentall dish , 1 cor. 11. 21. where he chargeth them , that when they came together to celebrate the lords supper , and to have christian communion in their love-feasts , ( which were annexed to the sacrament , immediatly either going before it , or following after it , * uncertain whether , though most probably the latter ) some of them were hungry , and others drunken ; however , if they were but intemperate in the use of the creatures at that time , which expositours generally conceive the word there to import ; if so , here was such a mixture , as i hope our congregations will not , cannot be charged with . yet , for all this , and many other abuses tolerated in that church , we hear not a word from the apostle , by way of advice and counsell to his corinthians , that the godly party should withdraw themselves from communion with such a church ; or that they should mould and incorporate themselves into a new body , a new church , consisting of a select party taken out of the old one . which yet surely , had it been so necessary , or expedient , as now it is conceived by some to be , hee would not have neglected to put them upon : still then it must remain an unjust separation , notwithstanding what ever ground can be alledged to the contrary . * to which i might yet add , ( what is not altogether inconsiderable ) the injustice of this practise , in reference to those ministers , and those churches , from which this separation is made . those ministers are hereby deserted by those whom ( it may be ) god bath made them his instruments , to beget , and bring home to himself , or at lest to nourish , and bring up for himself ; strangers entring upon the fruit and comfort of their labours : themselves no more owned , then as if there had never been any such relation betwixt them , and their people . repl. why , but , is this such an act of injustice ? what , may not people make choice of what ministers they please , putting themselves under such a ministry as by which they may edifie most ? answ , suppose it that a people have such a power and right , to choose their own ministers ; yet having once chosen them , and god by giving a blessing to their ministery , having ratified and confirmed that choice , evidencing that they are the ministers of god to them ; whether may they now upon your pretext of greater edification , take a liberty to themselves to chose new ones , toties quoties , as oft as they please , and to run from one to another : this the moderate authour of the late irenicon , will by no meanes allow , but condemns as the direct way to bring in all kinde of disorder and confusion into the church . and i think none , who are impartially judicious , but will therein subscribe to him . as ministers are hereby injured , so churches . the churches from which this separation is made , though true churches of christ , yet hereby they are shamed , contemned , condemned , disquited , hindred , indangered . and if this be not an act of high injustice , let any , but those who are interested in the guilt of it , speak . sure i am , it is not agreeable to that breviate of the second table , the rule of common equity and justice , layed down by our saviour , matt. 7. 12. whatsoever yee would that men should doe unto you , doe yee even so to them . what ministers , what churches would willingly have such measure meated to themselves ? and if not so , let them see with what pretext of equity and justice they can offer it unto others . i know there will be found some figleaves to cover the nakednesse of this practice . but they are such as will soon be blowen away . 1. in the first place , it is alledged , that in this kingdom at present there is no way laid forth for the . churches to walk in . and then why may not they take liberty to set up their way , as well as others theirs ? answ. now truly so it was in israel , when there was no king there , every one did that which was good in his own eyes . so they did ; but whether they should so have done or no , there is the question , ( and yet no question . ) and so it hath been in this intermysticall season , this unhappie interregnum of the church . multitudes have taken a licence to do what seemed them good , broaching of new doctrines , and setting up of new wayes . but quo jure , by what right , and with what warrant they have done it , let them make answer ; for i cannot . true it is , this unhappie anarchie , no church-government , must be acknowledged to have been the occasion of them all , but a just ground or warrant for any of them , it cannot be said to be ; not for separation , i am sure . 1. in as much as the churches frame and fabrick hath not been hereby dissolved and taken down . the church-work which hath been , and yet is in hand in this kingdom , is not new b●●lding but repairing . no just reason why the inhabitants should forsake the house for that . 2. but suppose the church hath not her way as yet laid out , yet it will not be denied but that she hath been all this while seeking it out . now for any in the mean time to withdraw and separate themselves from her is an advantage taken , not given . the story tells us of ezra , ezr. 8. how that he with his company in their return from babylon to jerusalem celebrated a fast at the river ahavah , setting themselves in a solemn manner to seek of god a right way , for themselves and theirs . now whilest they were at their prayers , should a party have broke away from them , upon pretext of a perfect knowledge of what they were seeking for , whether this had been a warrantable separation , or no , i dare put it to them who take up this plea for themselves . 3. but neither ( in the third place ) can it truly be said , that the church is so wholly destitute of a way to walk in , whether for worship , or government . the former of which is ( and for some good time hath been ) fully agreed upon . the latter how ever not fully compleated , yet is it for substance both determined , and held forth . 2. but it is not held forth as jure divino . answ. i. suppose it be not , yet is it not held forth as not jure divino . 2. though it be not held forth as [ the ] government expresly laid down in the word , yet is it held forth as that government , which is conceived to be most agreeable to the word . otherwise it should not come up to the national covenant . 3. but your own practise will shortly justifie ours . you intend a separation in your churches , and what do we more ? answ. 1. a separation in a church by purging of it , will not justifie a separation from a church by departing from it . 2. neither will it follow , that because we purge our own floors , therefore others ( strangers ) may come and set their fans on work in them . 3. nor yet will a separation which is orderly and regular , justifie that which is disorderly and irregular . 4. but suppose this our separation be tolerated by authority . ans. suppose it ( which yet for my own part i cannot suppose ) , yet will not that make it warrantable . in as much ( first ) as toleration is properly of evil . thou toleratest that woman jezabel , revel. 2. 20. however ( in the second place ) toleration doth not change the nature of the thing , but leaveth it as it findeth it . much lesse ( in the third place ) will a toleration for the future justifie a precedent act done before tha● toleration . such and the like allegations i might reckon up many . but they are but ( as i said ) fig leaves , though the best covers that can be found yet not sufficient to bide the injustice of this way . much lesse the rashnesse of it . that is the last particular , which if this practice of new separation cannot be acquitted from , this alone will be enough to render it an unwarrantable separation , and consequently a schism . now whether so or no , will soon appear , if we consider either the ground , or manner of it . 1. for the ground , what ever can be pretended there will be sound none sufficient to bear it out . suppose some just grievances may be found amongst us . yet are they tolerable ? if so , then is separation upon this ground intolerable , unwarrantable . in as much as it ought not to be , but upon a very great and weighty cause , and that where there is no remedy . suppose there be some , nay many just scandals amongst us by reason of corruption in manners . yet is not this neither a sufficient ground for separation from a church , wherein there is purity of doctrine and worship , with some power of godlinesse to be found . so as should it be granted that there is a cause , and that cause weighty , yet is it not so weighty as to turn the scale for separation . surely , how weighty soever it may be pretended to be , yet 1. it is not so weighty as that which the brownists had to plead for their separation , most of those blocks which they stumbled at , being now taken out of the way . and yet for all that , theirs was , and yet is universally censured by all but themselves for a rash separation . 2. neither ( in the second place ) will it be found to be so weighty as to weigh down , as to justifie schism . this being the weightier and greater evil of the two . this was augustines argument ( as i told you ) against the donatists : and we may as truly take it up in this case . though toleration of some unwarrantable mixtures in a church be an evil , yet is it not so great an evil as separation upon that ground . put them into the ballance together , and it will be found , that this preponderates , and weighs down that . and , if so , needs must this be an unadvised separation . vnadvised . so it must be concluded to be in the leaders ( how advised soever in other things ) , much more in many of the followers who are carried away upon very light and sleight grounds . instance in two or three of them . 1. the worthinesse of some of the persons who are leading-men , going before them in this cause . is it likely that such men should be deceived ? ans. and what ( i pray you ) were peter and barnabas ? were not they worthy men ? and yet for all that we finde them taken in this snare , guilty of an unwarrantable separation . 2. but this way prospers . many come into it daily . ans. and did not arianism so ? though a damnable heresie , yet how did it flie like lightning ? over-spreading the world of a sudden , breaking in like a land flood , carrying all afore it . and do not many errors , acknowledged errors , the like in the kingdom at this day ? and yet never the better to be liked for that . 3. but here is a great deal of strictnesse , holy strictnesse in this way . ans. and was there not so in most of those first , and famous schisms of the church ? the novatians , audians , donatists , luciferians , all strict in their way : strict in their personal walkings ; strict in their church-order ; in all likelihood more strict then the rest of the churches which they separated from . neither is it to be wondered at , that we should meet with extraordinary strictnesse in a right-hand error . but the question is , whether there be not too great a strictnesse . whether the way of the gospel be not in this way made narrower then ever christ made it , or his apostles left it . such weak grounds they are which multitudes are carried away with . now needs must this be in them a rash and unadvised separation who have no better principles to bottom their practise upon then these . in the second place , consider the manner of it . and here we shall finde some no small aggravations of this unadvisednesse , and that both in the leaders , and followers . 1. in separating at such a time , in a time of reformation . that hath been the practise here , and i presume it hath been the same in many other parts of the kingdom . whilest publike authority hath been at work to finde out gods way , private persons have taken the advantage to set up their own . whilest the one hath been reforming , the other instead of joyning with them to strengthen their hands , have been withdrawing , and separating themselves and others from them . and what ? separate from a reforming church ? a church that profess●th so much willingnesse , and readinesse in every thing to be conformed to the rule of the word ? brethren , let me tell you , there is more in this circumstance then happily some have been , or are aware of . when god is coming towards a church , then to run away from it ? when god is turning his face towards it , then to turn our backs upon it ? when god is building it up , then to be active in pulling it down ? this is a sad thing , and surely if rightly apprehended , must sit sad upon the spirits of some . had it been some yeers since , when god seemed to have been about to depart from us , when innovations , and corruptions were breaking in upon us , then to withdraw , then to forsake the church ( however i d●re not a vouch it for a work so transcendently meritorious as some conceive of it , yet ) i grant it tolerable . but now to do it , now that ( as themselves conceive of it ) the church is coming up out of the wildernesse , now that she begins to boyl out her scum , now that she begins to be more refined , and reformed , now to forsake her , truely this is no small aggravation to this desertion . for marriners at sea to forsake their ship when she is ready to sink , ( though possibly it may be an error and over-sight in them so to do ; yet ) it is pardonable . but if the ship shall begin to rise and float again , so as they see apparant hopes , that with a little pumping and baling she may be saved , now to leave her , ( much more to cut holes in her sides ) their owners will give them little thanks for it . some yeers since the church of god amongst us seemed to be in a sinking condition . then to leave her might be pardonable . but now , now that thorow the mercy and goodnesse of god , she begins to be somewhat floatsome , and boyant , so as a little industry and labour in the pumping and purging may free her and save her , shall we now desert her ? ( that i do not say cut holes in her sides ) . surely , surely , never was separation from this church so unwarrantable as it is at this day : warrantable it never was since she was a true church . in the last age an error it was , a schism ; and that not onely mr. aynsworth 's more rigid , but mr. robinsons more moderate separation . so accounted and censured at all hands . surely then at this day it cannot be warrantable . make the fairest of it , an unadvised separation it is . 2. vnadvised , being ( as is charitably conceived ) undertaken without due regard to , and consideration of the consequences following upon it , whether civil , or ecclesiastical , both which upon experience are sound to be very sad . in the civil state , how many divisions and fractions have broke in at this door ? even to the dividing and breaking the nearest relations , betwixt masters and servants , parents and children , husbands and wives . in the ecclesiastical state , in the businesse of the church , what a stop , what a hinderance hath this been ? the churches sayls were filled with a fair gale for reformation , but this remora how hath it stayed her course ? besides , what an in-let hath it been to all sorts of pernicious errors and heresies , wherewith this land at this day is annoyed as much as egypt ever was with lice , or flies ? 3. to these i might adde the apparent unadvisednesse in the greatest part of the followers in this way , of whom i cannot say that ever i yet knew any that came to advise and consult with their own ministers ( though orthodox and pious ) about the warrantablenesse of withdrawing from them and their ministery , before such time as they were actually alienated from them , and engaged against them . now whether this be an advised course or no , i dare leave it to the world to judge . and thus you have heard this inditement traversed with as much brevity as conveniently might be . the issue of it is no more but this . if there be amongst us a separation from a true church , and that both voluntary and unwarrantable , ( which i suppose the evidences given in have sufficiently evicted ) then must we give sentence , that here is more then either crimen nominis , or nomen criminis , then either the crime of a name , or the name of a crime , no lesse then a schism formally and properly so called . and if so , then suffer the stream of this exhortation to passe on a reach or two further . in the second place i might apply my self and this truth , to those of our brethren and sisters , who are already faln under the guilt of this inditement : intreating and beseeching them in the name of the lord jesus christ , that they would entertain thoughts of returning back again by the way by which they are gone , returning to the flocks from which they have strayed , to communion with those churches from which they are departed , not persisting and going on to shame , contemn , condemn , disquiet , hinder , indanger them , as by this their practise they do , and must do . but i have little heart to spend my tongue in speaking unto them , who have lesse heart to lend an ear to hear what is spoken . and therefore let me direct my speech unto you , and that 1. by way of caveat . take you heed that you be not involved in the same guilt , and that whether as principals or accessories . 1. as principals . such i must conclude them to be , who deserting the church wherein they have been begotten unto god , and nourished and brought up for god , shall joyn themselves to any of these separated bodies , holding communion with them in a separated way . 2. as accessories . such may magistrates be by their toleration , and connivence . if they shall not improve their authority which god hath put into their hands for the staying of the course of so great an evil . much more if they shall improve it to the abetting and countenancing of it : then which they cannot lightly do a greater disservice to the church . it is noted by augustine of julian the apostate , ( the worst of men ) and , that as none of his best acts , that he , and he alone of all the emperors , favored the donatists ( those famous schismaticks ) indulging them their liberty , restoring to them their basilicas , their cathedral meeting places , which before had been sequestred , and confiscated . all which , he did not out of any love that he bare to their way , but out of an envy which he bare to the peace and unity of the church . and such may ministers be . not onely by being active in this way , ( which for the most part some of that coat still are . it was jeromes observation , that in all his reading he could never finde the church rent by any schism , but still the ministers had a cheif and principal hand in it . an office very incongruous , and unsuitable to our office . god hath made us pastors to gather his flock , not to scatter it . not onely so , but when by their sinful silence , their politike reservednesse , their not appearing against it , they shall suffer so great an evil to grow to an head . which they ought not to do out of what ever respects they bear to the persons of any that are ingaged in it , or appear for it . paul wanted no true affection unto peter , and yet when he saw him faln in●o that unwarrantable separation , he would not forbear him . no , he withstands him to the face , gal. 2. 11. reproving him openly , verse 14. and this he did not fainedly , and in shew onely ; ( as jero●● construes that phrase {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , [ to his face ] as if it had been a packt businesse betwixt peter and him , for which misconstruction he is justly taken up by augustine ) but seriously and ex animo ; so the next words declare it , [ for he was to be blamed , verse 12. ] such may husbands be by permitting their wives ( so far as they can hinder it ) to joyn where themselves will not , dare not . such may parents , and masters of families be by permitting children and servants to ingage in such unwarrantable wayes , whilest they are under their tuition . and such may private persons be not onely by yeelding maintenance , or countenance ; but even by affording their presence in an ordinary and constant way at such meetings , whereby the open profession and practise of separation , there is a flag of defiance held forth to the rest of the churches . now then in the fear of god take we heed every of us how we intangle our selves in the guilt of this evil . on the other hand , do what we may for the healing of this , and the preventing of the like . quest . what shall we do ? ans. in answer to this , i shall not multiply directions for either , having ever been of the minde of that famous physition , who never approves those operosas compositiones ( as he calls them ) such medicines as are compounded of too many several ingredients : besides , it is a work which my self have some time since done in this place , in shewing you how israels breaches might be healed . and since that , i finde it done more amply by some other hands . take a word or two for each . quest . what shall be done for the former , for the healing of this division , this separation . ans. here i shall not meddle with what civil restrictions may be conceived to be necessary or expedient in such a case . i know what imperial laws were made by the good emperour theodosius , and others for the suppressing of the schism of the donatists . but these i shall leave to wise and religious authority , which i shall be far from instigating to any wayes of violence and rigour , but where apparent and eminent necessitie is for the preservation of the whole ( which was the late case of new england ) in which case that may be mercy , which otherwise were cruelty : my hopes are , and my prayers and counsels shall be , that our divisions may be healed in another way , a way of gentlenesse and sweetnesse . for that end follow me a little . two wayes of cure there are practised by physitians , the one is paracelsus his , the other galens ; the former to cure similia similibus , like with like : the other , contraria contrariis , one contrary by another . and we shall finde them both useful in this cure . for the former ; here is a division , a seperation , let it be cured by a division , by a separation . 1. cure this division by a division . thus physitians oft-times cure bleeding at the nose by revulsion , by opening a vein in another part of the body : a topical remedy , very proper for this place ( and so i conceive for many other in the kingdom ) where one pretended ground of this division , is the numerousnesse of the congregation . now let there be a division to heal this division : a division which may be orderly to heal this which is disorderly : a division warranted by authority to heal this which is made without , and against it . 2. and ( secondly ) let there be a seperation for the healing of this seperation . thus physitians sometimes cure fluxes with purges , by carrying away the noxious and peccant humour , which caused that dysentery . a remedy very proper both for this and all places in the kingdom . the chief pretended ground of this schism it is out unwarrantable mixtures in church communion . now let this separation ( in the name of god ) be cured by a separation . this separation which is irregular , let it be healed by one that is regular , viz. by a due purging of all the congregations in the kingdom , making a due separation , between the precious and the vile ; that so such may not be received to church communion , who are apparantly unworthy of it . this ( i presume ) is the great designe of all the religious party in the kingdom at this day . and truly till it be in measure effected , we cannot expect a healing of our divisions : and therefore all of us further it what we may ; onely observing our stations , publike persons in their place , and private persons in theirs : and the lord herein give a blessing to the desires and endeavours of his servants . which if they be not every wayes so successeful at the first , as might be desired , yet take we heed of stumbling at those imperfections . who art thou that dispisest the day of small things ? may we but once see this pot beginning to boyl out her scum , see these churches in a way of purging themselves , let us acknowledge god in these beginnings , quietly waiting upon him for the compleating and perfecting of his own work in his own way and time . here is the former way of cure . 2. the later is to cure one contrary by another . and this we shall also finde proper in this case . here is confusion , and how shall that be cured , but by order ? here is division , how shall that be cured but by vnity ? viz. by setting up one way for the churches to walk in . for this we have a promise . i will give them one heart , and one way . this god will do for his people . pray we for the performance of it to us . this we have most of us ingaged our selves by covenant to endeavor : viz. to bring all the churches in these three kingdoms to the nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion and government , &c. and this let us earnestly contend for , that there may be but one way amongst us , ( and that gods way ) ; one way of worship , and one way of government . this latter ( viz. discipline ) it is the churches hedge , which is of use ( as for other ends , so ) to keep her sheep from scattering . no way so probable to heal our divisions , and confusions as the establishing of this . in the second dayes work of the creation when there was nothing but a chaos , a confused masse , heaven and earth mingled together , god said , let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters . o that authority would now say the same in this kingdom at this day . in this second day of reformation what a chaos of confusion is there upon the face of this kingdom , by reason of the multiplicity of divisions and disorders in it ? o that authority would now say ( and not say it , but do it , for such was gods saying , dei dicere est facere , ) let there be a firmament , a rakiah ( as the hebrew hath it ) an expansion , a rule and order , which may spred it self in a uniform way from one end of the kingdom to the other ; and that a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( as the septuagint renders it ) a firmament , a discipline firmly setled and established in the church . it is the want of this that hath bred , and it is the establishing of this that must heal our present , and prevent our future distempers . 2. that is the second 〈◊〉 i propounded . now how may that be done ? how may schism for the future be prevented ? here also take three or four directions which i shall breifly propound , and so take leave of this subject . 1. take heed of lesser divisions . small wedges make way for great ones . small differences sometimes rise to divisions , and those divisions ( if not healed ) grow up to schisms , and those schisms run out into heresies . and therefore ( as much as may be ) be we precise in keeping the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace ; not leaving the beaten rode whether for doctrine or practise , unlesse upon clear evidences . 2. be not over-affected with novelties , new truths , whether such onely in appearance , or in reality . of the latter sort ( what ever noise there hath been , and is about them ) few there are which this present age hath yet brought forth . as for those new lights which have set this kingdom on fire at this day , for the most part they are no other then what have been taken out of the dark lanthorns of former hereticks , schismaticks , and sectaries . take we heed of having our eyes daz●led with them , or following af●er them , least they prove ( as many of them already have done ) to be no other but ignes fatui , false fires , useful onely to mislead those that will run after them . not that christians should shut their eyes against any truth , which with good and clear evidence is held forth unto them . truth is lovely , and ought to be imbraced in what ever dresse she cometh , whether now or old . as not antiquity , so neither should novelty be any prejudice to verity . onely take heed least whilest we over-affect the one , we be mistaken in the other . 3. take heed of scandals . whether of giving , or receiving . of giving , to drive off others . of receiving , to set off our selves . the former will come , must come . but , wo be to the man by whom they do come . and therefore have a care every of us to demean our selves in regard of our personal walkings inoffensively , and that towards all . give none offence , neither to the jews , nor to the gentiles , nor to the church of god . and being wary not to give , be not ready to receive . doubtful matters still construe them in the better part . so doth charity . it beleeveth all things , hopeth all things : that is , if credible , if possible . not looking upon the infirmities of brethren , or blemishes of churches thorow multiplying , or magnifying glasses , so as to make them more , or greater then they are . but ( so far as may be without sin ) hide them , cover them . with shem and japhet go backwards , and cast a garment upon this nakednesse . cursed cham he espies the nakednesse of his father , and makes sport with it . let not christians dare to do the like by the nakednesse of their mother . 4. in the fourth place . labor to see , and acknowledge god in our congregations . there he is , dwelling betwixt the cherubins , walking in the midst of his golden candlesticks , manifesting the presence of his grace in the midst of his ordinances , by a lively concurrence , and effectual operation with them , and by them . if we see him not , suspect our selves least the god of this world have blinded our eyes with prejudice or unbeleef . certainly some vail , some film or other there is over our eyes . now if he be here , how dare any withdraw ? when jacob apprehended god present with him at bethel , ( surely the lord is in this place ) he sets up his pillar there . are we convinced that god is present in our congregations ? have we our selves had some clear and comfortable visions of god there ? have we met with him , had communion with him in his word and sacraments there ? why do we not set up our pillar here ? how dare any forsake that church , which god hath not forsaken ? true , were it is , that the glory of the god of israel were gone up from the cherub , to the threshold of the house , ( as ezekiel saw it in his vision ) that god should make it manifest by clear evidences , that he were about to withdraw , and depart from his church in this kingdom , then for us also to entertain thoughts of withdrawing , there might be some plea for it . but so long as he dwels betwixt the chorubias , manifesting his presence amongst us in a constant way , and in a gracious manner , so as we may with open face ( as the apostle speaks ) behold as in a glasse , ( the glasse of the gospel ) the glory of the lord : in this case for us to withdraw communion with them , with whom god is pleased to hold so gracious a communion , how shall we answer it ? but i hasten . 5. in the fifth place . take heed ( of what i touched upon before ) of despising the day of smal things . what if the foundations of the second temple be not so large , so august and stately as the former was ? what if the present reformation do in some things fall short of the patern , and of what was expected and hoped for ? yet be not discouraged , be not discontented with these weak beginnings , be not distasted with these imperfections , so as to cast of all because we have not what we would have . so indeed do children , but so let not gods children do , who should be content with , and thankful for their fathers dispensation , though their portion be not so large as themselves could have wished . 6. and lastly , take heed of having the persons of men in admiration . this it was which occasioned all these divisions in this church of corinth , they had the persons of men in admiration ; being taken with the gifts and parts of their teachers , some addicted themselves to one , others to another , making themselves their disciples . i am of paul , and i am of apollo , &c. take we heed of being taken in the same snare . let not our eyes be so dazeled with what ever eminency of parts , or graces , which we apprehend to be in others , that we should set up their examples for our rules . this it was that drew many of the jews ( and barnabas amongst the rest ) into the error of an unwarrantable separation ; they saw peter a leading man , a prime and eminent apostle going before them . and surely this it is which hath misled many a well meaning soul in this kingdom , drawn them into the same error , to separate from their brethren , because they have seen some prime leading men , whose persons they honor , ( and that it may be deservedly ) , to go before them . and this is the main loadstone , the principal attractive that inclines them to look that way . no wonder in this case , if they be subject to miscarry . so hath many a ship done by following her admiral , which carried the lanthorn in a dark night , not heeding her own course as she should have done , both have been bilged upon the same shelf . a dangerous thing it is to shape our course by anothers compasse . and therefore ( to draw to a conclusion ) take we heed how we look too much at man , what ever he be . it was pauls resolution concerning those who seemed to be somewhat , men of reputation , such as the apostles were ( for of some of them he there speaketh ) , what ever they were ( saith he ) it maketh no matter to me ; god accepteth no mans person . it is rule , not example , a divine rule , not a humane example that we are to walk by . let this be our guide , the rule of the word . being led thereby , now are we in the way to peace , and that both inward , and outward , with god , our selves , others . as many as walk according to this rule , peace shall be upon them , and upon the israel of god . and thus i have at length dispatched the negative part of this apostolical obtestation or charge : wherein if any conceive i have dwelt too long , i shall make them amends in handling of the latter part of the text , the positive part of this charge , which i shall passe over with as much brevity as possibly may be . that ye all speak the same thing , and that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same minde , and in the same judgement ] . we have here the apostles exhortation , which in one word is to ( that which we so much at this day in this kingdom want ) vnity . a threefold unity , consisting in three particulars ; in tongue , in heart , in head . so calvin and beza distinguish the parts of this gradation . in tongue , [ that ye all speak the same thing . ] in heart . [ that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same minde ] . in head , [ and in the same judgement ] . so the apostle here placeth them in a retrograde order . beginning first with that which in order of nature is last . tongue-unity floweth from heart-unity , and heart-unity from head-unity . men first agree in judgement , think the same thing : then in affection , minding the same thing ; then in language , speaking the same thing . the apostle here goeth backwards , ab imis ad summa , from the bottom to the top , from the stream to the fountain , from the effect to the cause . and in that method i shall follow him ; beginning with the first . 1. tongue-unity . such a unity should all christians , specially the members of the same church strive after , and labour for . a unity of tongues . this is that which paul wisheth for his romans , rom. 15. where he prayeth , that they might with one mouth glorifie god . and this is one thing which here he so earnestly begs for , from these his corinthians , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that ye all speak the same thing . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . the same thing both for substance , and expression . christians should have an eye to both . 1. for substance , that they may speak the same thing , though it be in different language . so did the apostles at the day of pentecost , acts 2. they spake divers languages , but the same thing . a remarkable difference betwixt that division of tongues at babel , and this at jerusalem . at babel they spake different things as well as different words . one speaks of brick , another answers him with morter . but at jerusalem the apostles however they spake different languages , yet they all spake the same thing , all preached the same gospel , delivered the same truthes . o that there were such an happy unity amongst us at this day in this kingdom ! that there were but one language to be heard in this iland . one language amongst ministers , amongst people . ministers , they are by their office speakers , ( as it is said of paul , he was the cheif speaker ) . gods mouth to his people . thou shalt be as my mouth . o that this mouth might still speak the same thing ; having but one tongue in it : a mouth which should have more tongues then one in it , we would look upon it as a strange monstrosity . o let it not be said , or thought that the mouth of god should have so . one mouth . so runs the phrase of scripture . as he spake by the mouth ( not mouths ) of all his holy prophets . and one tongue . one tongue for one man . it is one of pauls qualifications which he requires in a deacon , he must not be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , double-tongued ; speaking sometimes one thing , and sometimes another . a foul blemish to a minister of christ to be so ; to speak one thing to day , another tomorrow , to say and unsay , to have more tongues then one . if all should speak the same thing , then much more the same man . but that by the way . one tongue for all . that all the ministers of christ might speak the same thing , the same truths for substance : so as though they deliver several points of doctrine , yet they may be such as are no way repugn●● to another , or to the truth . truth we are sure is but one , error be various . and the word of truth ( as saint iames calleth the gospel preached ) it is no more . it is but one word . one faith , one baptism ( saith the apostle ) , one doctrine of faith . how is it then that amongst us there should be more then one ? how is it that not onely parlors , but pulpits and presses , ring with such a contrariety of doctrine ? and that not onely in some smaller differences , ( as in the interpretation of an obscure text of scripture , or the like , wherein men sometimes may safely disagree , each abounding in his own sense ) ; but in points if not of , yet neer the foundation , surely a sad hearing , presaging no good to the church , or cause of god in this kingdom . this it was ( as i have said ) which hindered the building of babel . and surely , hence it is that the building of our sion riseth no faster . our tongues , the tongues of the builders are divided . o how happy were it for us , and for the church of god , did we all speak but one language ! whilest we thus differ ( saith one truly ) we can build nothing but babel . difference of tongues caused their babel to cease , but it builds ours . a truth , whereof we have lamentable experience at this day . o what a babel is this our sion at this day turned to , all thorow this confusion of languages ; because all do not speak the same thing , not ministers . much lesse people . among them how many several languages to he heard at this day ? more then ever there were at babel . at babel some conceive that one tongue was divided into seventy two languages , but our divisions far exceed that number . at babel others conjecture that there were as many tongues as several kinreds and families . with us there are more . kinreds and families being subdivided . the husband speaking one thing , the wife another ; the parent one thing , and the childe another ; the master one thing , and the servant another . thus it should not be . christians who have one head , should have but one tongue , all speaking the same thing for substance . 2. and as much as may be for expression also . however , not affecting a difference . a vain and dangerous affectation : so it is to decline common and received expressions , whether laid down in the word , or else being consonant to it upon good ground taken up by the church . the later of these , many ancient hereticks took great exceptions at , and sought to make advantage of . some words they met with in common use in the church , but because they did not finde them syllabically and expresly in the scriptures , therefore they rejected them , and with them the things signified by them . thus the arrians , because they found not the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} consubstantiality in the text , therefore they rejected it , and with it the orthodox doctrine of the church , touching the sons being of the same substance with the father . and so the sabellians because they found not the word trinity in scriptures , therefore they denyed the trinity of persons in the god-head . upon like ground the photinians denyed the two natures in christ , and the nestorians the hypostatical , the personal union of those two natures . thus it was of old . and thus it is in many places of this kingdom at this day , where all these old rotten errors are again revived , and raised out of their graves ; and that upon the very same pretences . a dangerous affectation , which christians should beware of . do we beleeve with the church , let us not ( without just ground ) refuse to speak with the church , in the churches language , and dialect . specially in the phrase of scripture . this is that which the ministers of christ should affect as much as may be to speak in that sacred dialect . not setting the min● of their brains on work to coyn new , and high , and far-fetcht expressions , purposely to amuse the hearer , ( a practise much in use with familists and antinomians , and some other sects of the times ) . of such pareus observes truely , that giving themselves first to finde out new phrases and terms , afterwards oft-times they come to broach new doctrines , new opinions , and so to make sects and schisms in the church . and therefore to prevent this , the apostle here desires his corinthians that they would speak the same thing . therein ( saith the foresaid author ) tacitely pointing at one of these heads from whence their schisms , and factions were sprung , viz. from their different language in and about matters of religion . and let this his advice to them , be as acceptable to us as it is seasonable . that we may avoyd the like evils ; in speaking of the matters of god take heed of affecting an unwarrantable and wanton singularity . ministers , hold we fast that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that form of sound and wholesome words , which we have received from christ , and his apostles , and from the orthodox churches of god ; speaking the same things in the same manner that they have done before us : not crossing , not interfering with them , nor yet willingly with our brethren . pulpit against pulpit is next to altar against altar . as much as may be , let such clashing be declined by the ministers of christ , whose endeavor should be , that they might all speak the same thing . this do we . and this do you . quest . i , but how shall both we and you attain to it ? how shall we come to this unity of language ? answ. why ; labor we for unity of hearts and mindes . anatomists tell us of an artery which goeth from the heart to the tongue . if hearts be agreed , tongues will soon be accorded . and thus i am got upon the second step of the apostles gradation , which leadeth me to the third . that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same minde , and in the same judgement ] . i shall not stand long upon either . onely the first word will stay me a little , being a word full of emphasis and significancy . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} that ye be perfectly joyned together ] . so our translation renders it by divers words , not knowing how fully to expresse it in one . the word properly signifieth compagination , when the parts of a thing are aptly joyned together , so as they do fitly agree with the whole , and amongst themselves . even as it is in the body of man , wherein the members are all fitly joyned and knit together in a due symmetry , and proportion , so as they are each serviceable to other , and all to the whole . this is properly {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . and this it is which paul here begs for his corinthians , that they might be thus united and compacted together . a blessing very desirable for every church . thus in the church invisible united . the whole body is knit together by joynts and bands , having nourishment ministred to it from the head ( as the apostle speaketh ) all true believers they are incorporated into one mystical body , knit together by the bands of faith and love . by the one united to their head christ ; by the other one to another : and such a union , such a coagmentation is a thing very desirable for every visible church . this it is which maketh it a compleat and perfect church . so the vulgar latin here renders the word in the text . sitis autem perfecti . be ye perfect . then is a thing said to be perfect and compleat , when it hath all the parts thus aptly and fitly put together . and thence it is that the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is sometimes used in that sense . so our translation renders it , 2 cor. 13. finally brethren , fare ye well , be perfect . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . that is , perfectly united unto christ , and one to another , ( as the jesuit there fitly expounds it ) . now to this perfection and compleatnesse ( as beza here prosecutes it ) there are two things requisite . 1. there must be no part either wanting , or superfluous . 2. there must be an apt coherence and conjunction of those parts , both requisite to a compleat particular church . 1. there must be the due parts of it , none wanting , none superfluous . 1. none wanting . there must be ministers and people ; officers and members ; governours and governed . this it is ( saith dr. ames ) which giveth a church an organical state , which maketh it an organical perfect body , when it hath all the several parts and members belonging to it , whereby it is rendred apt and fit to exercise such operations as tend to the good of the whole . 2. none superfluous . such officers , and onely such as christ hath appointed in his word . this is one thing which maketh the church of rome a monstrous body , because she hath a superfluous head . and such members , such and onely such as are fit to joyn in church-communion . 2. the second requisite is an apt combination of these parts , that they be fitly knit and joyned together : first to the head , and secondly one to another . the former is done by faith , by a profession of faith . so it is in the church visible , where the profession of faith maketh a member and ( if there be no other bar ) intitles it to all the ordinances . the later is done by love , by a professed willingnesse and readinesse to perform mutual offices each to other . put these together , and here is a compleat visible church for the outward frame of it . and o that all the churches of christ in this kingdom were but thus compleat ! {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , such compacted bodies , made up of all their due parts ; such officers , and such members , as christ hath appointed ; such and no other : and that they were so combined and knit together in the profession of the same faith , and in the declaration of the same mutual love each to other . how beautiful , how glorious would this render them ? every of us in our places therefore do what we may to bring them to this perfection . but in the mean time not forsaking them , not departing from them upon pretence that they are not every wayes such . it is no good reason for a member to leave the body , because it wants an eye , or a hand , or it may be hath a finger too much , or because the parts are not put together in such due proportion as they should he . what ever deficiency , what ever redundancy there is at present in the churches of christ amongst us , yet is it no sufficient cause for any to renounce or forsake communion with them . no , that is the way still to render them more imperfect , which take we heed how we be any wayes accessary to ; and a thing directly contrary to the apostles direction here in the text , which is not for separation , but for coagmentatur . many disorders there were at this time in corinth , but paul doth not thereupon advise any to withdraw , but to be so much the more compacted , and combined together . that ye may be perfectly joyned together . there is the proper signification of the word . but i must not so leave it : i finde another sense peculiarly affixed to it . among physitians this word is commonly applied to bone-setting . when a bone which was out of joynt was set , and put into the due place again , this in their language is properly {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . and in this sense ( as beza conceives ) the apostle himself useth the word , gal. 6. if a man be overtaken in a fault , restore such a one . the word rendred [ restore ] is the same with that in the text , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , set him in joyn● again . and so divers expositors of note conceive that the word may most aptly be understood , and taken here in the text . that ye be perfectly joyned together ; that ye may be put in joynt again . an elegant and significant metaphor , which will give us the hint of divers useful observations . 1. that as there are divers members in a church , so every one hath his due and proper place . even as bones in the body of man every one hath his proper joynt , his socket in which it turns and moves . 2. so long as they keep that place they are useful to the body . so are bones to the natural ; and so are the members of a church to the ecclesiastical body . 3. schism in the church puts the members out of joynt . this it is ( saith pareus ) that paul here in this word insinuates to these his corinthians , how that they by their schisms had disjoynted that church . they were thereby become as so many bones out of joynt . and very fitly may schism be resembled hereunto . and that ( as p. martyr goeth before me ) in two respects . 1. because hereby the members of the church are rendred unserviceable , unapt and unfit to perform such offices and duties as belong to them . so it is we see in the natural body . a hand or foot out of joynt it is no longer useful to the body . though active before , yet now made unserviceable through that dislocation . and even so is it with the members of the church , being put out of joynt by schism , they become unuseful to the body , unapt to those duties and services which before they performed . a truth whereof we have daily sad experience in this and many other parts of the kingdom . how is it that those who were wont to joyn with the churches of god in this kingdom in religious exercises , in hearing the word , in prayer , sacraments , and were so ready to all mutual offices of love , they are now faln off from all ? alas , they are as bones out of joynt , disjoynted by schism , and therefore no wonder that for the present they are no more useful to the body ; which if once set in joynt again , they will be . 2. bones out of joynt are not onely unserviceable , but painful , affecting the whole body with grievous dolours . thence it is that david to set forth the greatnesse of his distresse , he borrows this expression , all my bones are out of joynt . and such are schisms in the church . they are grievous things , causing sad thoughts of heart , ( as is said of reubens divisions ) : causing great trouble and disquietment to the church , and great dolour to all the living members of it . a truth never more sadly experimented then it is in this kingdom at this day . o what trouble , what disquietment hath schism procured to this church and state ! how dolorous a thing is it to all the sensible members of this body ? for christians to see their brethren thus divided ; to see their mother thus set upon the rack , and her bones ( as it were ) thus put out of joynt . certainly they must be dead ( at least stupified ) members which are not sensible of these disjoyntings . in the fear of god then suffer this word of exhortation directed here by this apostle to these his corinthians to take place with us : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . suffer we our selves to be put in joynt again . to that end yield we up our selves to the skill of those whom god hath appointed to the bone-setters to his church in this her shattered , disjoynted and broken condition : those who are now consulting for the healing of these breaches , hearkning to their counsels and directions so far as they shall counsel from god , and for god , that so through his concurring with their and our endeavours , we may yet be restored to so happy a vnity , as to be perfectly joyned together . q. but how shall we be thus joyned together ? a. why , i have hinted it more then once . there are two bonds and ligaments whereby the members of this body are united together . by the one they are knit to the head ; by the other one to another . the one faith , the other love . and both these calvin conceives to meet u● here in the text . that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same [ minde ] and in the same [ judgement ] . the one of these he refers to faith , the other to love . and not unfitly may we so conceive of them . in all probability ( as both he and beza agree it ) , the apostle in these two words [ minde and judgement ] intends a partition and division of the whole soul , which consisteth ( as we know ) of these two noble and principal faculties , the vnderstanding and the will . now the one of these words seemeth to point at the one , the other at the other . which is which , those two foresaid authors are not agreed . the former ( saith calvin ) points at the vnderstanding , the later at the will . beza on the other hand . the former saith he points at the will , the later at the vnderstanding . and to him i shall therein subscribe , as apprehending that construction both most proper for the words , and most accommodate to the place . wherein ( as beza conceives of it ) paul ascends by three steps ; viz. from the tongue to the heart , and from the heart to the head . the one of which ( as i told you ) hath a dependance upon the other : tongue-unity upon heart-unity , and heart-unity , upon head unity . why do men speak the same thing ? because they are concordes , of the same minde , of the same heart and will . and how come they to be of one minde , one heart ? why , they are of the same judgement . agreement in judgement , breedeth agreement in affection , and agreement in affection , breedeth agreement in speech . fitly then may we so construe the words here , [ minde and judgement ] taking the former as relating to the will , the latter to the understanding , the former importing an agreement in affection , the latter in opinion . both very desirable for every church of christ , that there may be such an harmony and agreement amongst the members of it . such a harmony there was among the primitive believers in the church of ierusalem . they were all of one heart , and of one minde , ( saith the text ) act. 4 agreeing both in affection and opinion ; so as there was no division , no dissension amongst them . such an addition , both beza and beda tell us , that they finde in some ancient greek copies there . they were of one heart , and one minde , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and there was no difference , [ no controversie ] among them . non erat in eis separatio ulla ( so beda renders it . ) there was no separation amongst them . o that it were so amongst us ! to that end labour we for this double unity , agreement both in affection and opinion . such an unity it is that paul exhorteth his philippians to , pressing it upon them with as much earnestnesse as his pen could expresse , phil. 2. 1. if therefore there be any consolations in christ , &c. fulfil ye my joy that ye be like minded . there is the general exhortation , which in the following words he subdivides into two particulars . 1. having the same love and being of one accord , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as it were having one and the same soul , dwelling in several bodies . 2 ▪ and of one minde , that is , agreeing both in affection and judgement . such an agreement let all the lords people strive after ; which is the second kinde of unity , which i spake of heart unity , agreement . 1. in affection , that they may have one heart : ( that the lord promiseth to bestow upon his people , i will give them one heart ) that they may be like affected each to other . so paul presseth it upon his romans . rom. 12. be of the same minde ( like affected , saith the geneva translation ) one towards another . that so they may praise god with one heart , as well as with one mouth . so paul prayeth for his romans , rom. 15. now the god of patience and consolation graunt you to be like minded one to another according to christ iesus , ( secundum voluntatem , & exemplum , according to the minde of christ , and the example of christ ) that ye may with one minde and one mouth , glorifie god . the later of these , christians do , when they professe and confesse one and the same faith , and when they joyn together in the publike exercises of religion , particularly in singing of psalms ( an exercise which begins now to grow out of fashion , as all harmony doth ) now they glorifie god with one mouth . o let us strive to do the former , to glorifie god with one minde , one heart . quest . but how shall this blessed heart unitie be attained ? what shall we do , that we may come to this onenesse of heart ? ans. 1. to this end all of us ( first ) labour after new-hearts . the old heart is ( like israels ) a divided-heart , divided from god , and divided from men , at least ready so to be upon any occasion . so it is now become through the corruption of nature ( as p martyr rightly observes . ) hence it is that man is now naturally so prone to divisions , to sects and schisms . from the beginning it was not so . at the first man was created a sociable creature , affecting communion with other of the same kinde . he was then created after the image of god , who as he is one in himself , so he requireth unity in others . how is it then that man is so far degenerated , that he is so prone to division ? why ; this is the vitiosity and corruption of his nature . as we affect unity labour to get our hearts changed , renewed . to that end yealding them them up to the spirit of grace , that it may work upon them for the subduing of that frowardnesse and fiercenesse of spirit , that pride and self-love , that highmindednesse and selfconceitednesse , that selfishnesse , which is in every man naturally more or lesse . these are the grand enemies to unity . give way to the spirit of grace for the subduing of these : that however , they may be kept in , and kept under , not suffered to mingle themselves with our counsels and actions . such a holy care paul presseth upon his philippians , phil. 2. where having exhorted them to a holy unity , he subjoyneth by way of direction , let nothing be done through strife or vain glory . look not every man on his own things . but on the other hand . in lowlinesse of minde , let each esteem other better then himself : every man also looking upon the things of others . not but that christians may look at their own things , but not impropriate their care to them , not so look at their own profit or honour , or ease , or pleasure , as not also to have a respect to others . 2. above all ( which might be an other direction ) having a respect unto the glory of god , propounding this as our chief aim . and o that christians did but all agree in this , their hearts all meeting in this center , all minding this same thing , making the glory of god the mark which they level at . no readier way to an holy agreement then this . quae conveniunt in uno tertio , &c. lines meeting in the center agree there . the hearts of christians meeting in the same god , as the ultimate end of all their counsels and actions , it is the most direct way to b●ing them to a holy unity . 3. propounding the same end , let us also make use of the same rule . so paul presseth it as a direction to unity . let us walk by the same rule . the same rule of faith and life , viz. the word . by this rule let us walk , not setting a step , not undertaking any counsel or action , but as we have the direction of the word for our guide and warrant . 4. be ever jealous over our own hearts . and good reason we should be so ; they being like unto tinder or gunpowder , ready to take fire by the least spark which falleth into them , ready to take and improve every occasion that is offered for division ; ● , to take up occasions sometimes before they are let fall , through jealousies , and suspicious misapprehensions of things . much more where there is a reality . now , the least spark is enough , if not looked to , to set them on fire . it was no great matter that paul and barnahas differed upon . onely , about the taking of an associate along with them , iohn mark , whom barnabas thought worthy , but paul , in regard of his late desertion of them , not going with them to the work , adjudged unworthy of their communion and fellowship . yet the difference betwixt them rose to a height , to no lesse then separation . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , there was a very sharp and eager contest betwixt them ( saith the text , ) ) inso much , that they departed , [ separated ] the one from the other . brethren take we heed of dashing upon the like rock . suppose it that a iohn mark , a person one or more should be admitted to our communion , to the table of the lord , ( a thing which i plead not for ) whom in your judgements you conceive not so worthy of it , in regard of some former slips , whereby they have given just scandal ( that was the proper case there ) yet let there not be a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , an over eager contest about it , however , take heed of separating upon it . it was a weaknesse in paul or barnabas , one or both so to do . it will be wilfulnesse in you to do the like , having now had warning of it again , and again . 5. for other directions , i might send you to that of the apostle eph. 4. 31. let all bitternesse and wrath , and anger , and clamour , and evil speaking , be put away from you , with all malice . and be you kinde one to another , tender hearted , for giving one another , even as god for christs sake hath forgiven you . seconded by the same apostle , col. 3. put on therefore bowels of mercies , kindnesse , humblenesse of minde , meeknesse , longsuffering , forbearing one another , and forgiving one another . mark those two last , forbearing , and forgiving . this must christians be much in , otherwise no hopes of vnity . 6. to these i might adde . would we be thus united , then neglect not means of union , such means as god hath appointed for that end . one chief whereof is the sacrament of the lords supper : an ordinance of god instituted ( as for other ends , so ) for the confirming and increasing of that union which is betwixt the members of the mystical body ; as betwixt the members and the head , so betwixt the members themselves , for the knitting of their hearts together . when this shall be offered , take heed how we sleight , how we neglect it . surely it cannot but be conceived , that the unhappy intermission of the administration of this ordinance , hath been not a little accessary to the increasing and heightning of our heart-divisions . through the mercy of god we hope you shall have it now again reached forth to you , in a more constant and comfortable way , then formerly . you therefore who are living members of the mystical body , who finde your hearts already in measure united unto christ by faith , and to the saints by love , do you with care and conscience attend hereupon , that by this means this your union may be confirmed and encreased , that you may be perfectly joyned together . 7. take but one more . and that is that which we next meet with in the text , in the last clause of it , which i shall onely touch upon in a word , and so dismisse it and you . would we be of one minde , of me heart , labor to be of the same judgement . surely there is a great sympathy betwixt the head and the heart . as the one is affected , so will the other be . in vain to look for unity in the one , where there is division in the other . true ( i confesse ) so it should not be . christians though differing in judgement , yet they should be one in affection . i , but so it will be , as long as men are flesh as well as spirit , carrying the remainders of corruption about with them . for my own part , i must professe , i cannot but wonder that men , and some intelligent men , should be so taken with their own dreams , as to fancy not onely ●possibility , but a fair probability of a holy concord and agreement amongst christians in the midst of the greatest diversity of opinions . the prophet amos puts the question , can two walk together except they be agreed ? and if not two , how shall twenty , nay a hundred several and contrary opinions and wayes do it ? a thing contrary to all experience . what bitter contentions have ever in all ages attended upon these differences in religion ? for instance , i might bring in the jews and the samaritans ; the arrians and the orthodox christians ; papists and protestants ; lutherans and calvinists . remonstrants , contra-remonstrants : amongst our selves of late , conformists and non-conformists ; at present , presbyterians and independents , ( as they are called ) . not to speak here of those many other sects in the kingdom , many of which with little lesse then a mortal hatred do prosecute each others way , if not persons , to the not onely present breach and interruption , but ( unlesse god be the more merciful ) to the utter endangering , if not destroying of church-peace and unity in this kingdom . and if a bare connivance at these divisions have already occasioned such a combustion , what do we think would a toleration do ? a toleration of all sorts of sects and schisms , and heresies , and blasphemies , which is by some ( and those more then a good many ) under the abused notion of liberty of conscience , so earnestly pleaded for . for my own part , should this be once yeelded ( which i hope their eyes shall first fail who look for it ) i should look upon it as the passing-bell to the churches peace and glory , if not to the true religion of god in this kingdom . surely , blessed paul was of another minde ; otherwise he would not have been so earnest with his corinthians for unity in judgement , as well as in affection . never had he any thought of such a politike principle for the according of his corinthians , to indulge every of them their several opinions and wayes . no , this he knew well enough was the high way to confusion . and therefore he presseth upon them unity in judgement as well as in affection . as we desire the one , endeavor after the other . obj. why ; but it is a thing impossible that there should be such an agreement among christians . such a general consent in judgement , that all should be of one opinion . it never was so : it never will be so . paul himself tells us expresly , there must be heresies . answ. true , so there must be . it is an unavoidable evil through satans malice , and mans corruption . i but so there ought not to be . so as this is no plea , no just excuse ; either for the broaching , or contenancing , or tolerating of them . 2. neither ( in the second place ) is it a thing so absolutely impossible for christians to attain to such an agreement in the truth . a thing in one congregation very possible , and or●●nary ; why then impossible in many ? 3. however ( in the third place ) though there be some difference about circumstantials in some points of lesser consequence and concernment , yet in the fundamentals , the chief heads and principles of religion , there may and ought to be an agreement amongst the churches of christ . this we are sure in a true church is not onely possible , but necessary . such an agreement there was in the last age betwixt the church of england , and other reformed churches , as also betwixt her own members in her own bosome . some differences there were about order , government , discipline , ceremonies , but for substantials , matters of faith , they were agreed , witnesse the sweet harmony of their confessions . and o that there were but the like concord and agreement to be found amongst us at this day ! that our differences were confined wholly to the hem of christs garment . such were the divisions of the last age in comparison of ours : and yet even those divisions were then thought sad enough . what would not the godly party on both sides , have given to have bought them of ? o what then shall we do for the healing of our present breaches ! all of us implore the help of the great physitian , that he would undertake the cure ; which if he do not , vain is the help of man , the church of god among us is in a lost condition . for this mercy let the favorites of heaven ply the throne of grace with their prayers , all of us second them with the best of our endeavors ; striving after a holy unity in judgement , as much as others do after division . to that end . whereto we have already attained ( as the apostle adviseth ) let us walk by the same rule . truths upon good ground received and beleeved by the churches of christ , and our selves , hold them fast . in other things , if we be otherwise minded , differing from our brethren in some points of inferior concernment , let us carry these our differences in a humble , and ( as much as may be ) in a quiet and peaceable way ; rather somthering our private opinions in our own brests , then to suffer them to break forth to set the church on fire , to the disturbance and breach of the publike peace , which ought to be more dear to us then many of the children of our own brains : so waiting upon god until he shall further reveal his truth to our selves , or others . and thus i have with as much brevity as i could , dispatched also this latter branch of this apostolical charge . concerning which i shall now onely pray , that god by his spirit , which is the spirit of peace and unity , would imprint it upon your hearts , and upon the hearts of all his people in this kingdom . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a77494e-260 a luke 1. 3. acts 1. 1. b in personâ theophili fidelibus omnibus sua scripta dedicavit lucas : aret . in luc. theophilus vir senatorii ordinis● ibid. doctrinam omnium communem privatim suo theophilo destinat . calv. ibid. neque enim ideò minus ad omnes pertinet pauli doctrina● , quia ●x suis epistolis alias certis urbibus alias etiam hominibus dicavit . idem . c nathan . homes animadversions upon mr. tombs exercitations : preface to the reader . d hâc lege evangelium suum theophilo nuncupat lucas , ut fidelem ejus custodiam suscipiat : calv. ibidem . notes for div a77494e-910 introduction . josh. 7. 10. 13. divisions . pauls affection insinuated . huic morb● exulceratis●imo primu● malag●●ata quaedam adhibet . pareus , ad loc. observ. a fit preparative for sharp reproofs . a threefold argument here couched . each considered first simply . 1. the obsecration . estius ad loc. obs. p. mart. com. ad loc. a language peculiar to the new testament . ph●l . v. 8 , 9. obs. the sweetnesse of the gospel above the law . applicat . what language ministers are to use to their people . they may command . 2 thes. 3. 6 1 tim. 4. 11. 1 cor. 7. 10. and rebuke . 2 tim. 4. 2 cum auctoritate summa tanquàm dei legatu● . beza ad loc. but sometimes beseech . 2. the compellation . gen. 29. 4. brethren a word full of affection . 1 king. 20. 32 , 33. obs. christians should look upon each other as brethren . loving as brethren . 1 ioh. 3. 18. 1 pet. 3. 8. performing brotherly offices each to other . deut. 25. vid. aynsworth ad loc. prov. 17. 17. obs. ministers must look upon their people as brethren . though not deserving so to be accounted 1 cor. 4. 15. appl●c . a patern for ministers in these dividing times . 2 cor. 12. 15. isai. 1. 2. hoses 6. 4. how christians should stand affected towards their separating brethren . gen. 45. ipsum fraternitatis nomen , utcunque donatistis fastidiosum est , tamen orthodoxis erga ipsos donatistas necessarium . optat. lib. 3. 3. the adjuration . eos per nomen christi adjurat ut quantum ipsum amant tantum studcant concordiae . calvin ad loc. the name of jesus , what . estius com. ad loc. 1. for christs sake . a prevalent argument . 2 cor. 5. 14. col. 3. 17. 2. by authority from christ . 2 cor. 5. 20 1 cor. 5. 4. the arguments looked upon in reference to churchunity . obser. churchunity a thing of high concrnment . solent aut●● prudentes viri non nisi in rebus gravis●tmis a●hibere obtestationes scrias . aret . ad loc. a pearl in pauls eye . phil. 2. 1 , 2. let it be so in ours . to that end consider . 1. the apostles obsecration . 2. his compellation . acts 7. 26. gen. 13. 8. heb. 13. 1. cum consensu deponi videtur fraternitas . aret. ad loc. 3. his adjuration containing many argum●●ts pressing the c●re of churchunity . argu. 1. argu. 2. mar 9. last . eph. 4. 3 , 5. argu. 3. aret. ad loc. eph. 2. 14. argu. 4. verse 17. isai. 52. 7. eph 2. 14. isaiah 9. 6. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . are● . ad loc. quod secundo loco posuit , ordine primum est : ut scilicet caveamus dissidia , calvin ad loc. the dehortation . schism , the word expounded . schisma est propriè corporis solidi sectio qualis in lignorum fissura , aretius problem . de schismate . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} scapula ex xenop . & plat. luk. 23. 25 schism , a word peculiar to the new testament . chamer . lib. de ecclesia , c. de schismate . 1 kings 11. 11 , 12. scinditur incertum studia in contraria vulgu● . jure quodam ecclesiae facta sunt ecclesiastica . cham. ubi supra . schism , the thing explained . 1 cor. 12. 25. church-divisions in opinion or practice . ioh. 7. 43. the latter properly schism . 1 cor. 11. 18 , 19. heresie and schism how distinguished . schisma est congregationis dissidiū ex diversitate sententiarum . haeresis verò schisma inveteratū . august . contra crescon. grammat . inter haeresin & schisma hoc interesse arbitramur , quod haeresis perversum dogma habet , schisma ab ecclesiâ separat . hieron. in epist. ad galat. aquin. 22. q. 39. calvin instit. lib. 4. c. 2. s . 5. the schisms in the text , chiefly divisions in practise , which are either without separation , 1 cor. 1. 18. or with separation . quia autem haec scissio maximè perficitur & apparet in debitâ communioue ecclesiastica 〈◊〉 recusandā , idcircò illa separatio per appropriationem singular●m recte vocatur schisma . ames . cas. consc. de schismate . separation partial , or total . the latter most properly a schism . separation from the church-catholike , don●●ism . from a particular church , separatism . which is either negative , secessio negativa , positiva . cham. de eccles. cap. de schism . or positive . the highest kinde of schism . altare adversus altare erexit . august . de donato lib. contra crescon. gram. hoc est quod schisma autonomasticôs dicitur & {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . cham. ubi suprà . reas. schism a great evil . 1. an evil of punishment : a great iudgement . amos 6. 11. psal. 60. 2. 2. a great sin . hos. 10. 2. schism●●●●priè dictu● est 〈◊〉 gravi●●●mu● ▪ ames , c●● consc. de schismat . sunt quidi peccatum schismatis ad aeque●t peccato ▪ h●●re●●s , sunt qui illud adhuc pra ist● exaggerent , musc. loc. com. de schism . sacr●legium schismatis vestr● defen●●r● non v●●c●is , aug ▪ contra 〈◊〉 lib. 2. exp. ● . an ut dicere ceperam , graviora sunt crimina traditorum quàm schismaticorum ? aug. ibid. iere. 36. 23 numb. 16. 31 , 35. quis jam dubitaverit hoc esse sceleratius commissum quod est graviùs vindi●atum , aug. ibid. 1. schism opposite to the great grace of charity . 1 cor. 13. 13 acts 20. 35. eph. 4. 3. schisma vinculum pacis dirumpit , charitatem scil. musc. l. c. de schism . 2. schism injurious to christ . 1 cor. 1. 13. 3. schism injurious to the church 1. shaming it . cant. 6. 9. iudges 19. 1 cor. 11. 22. 2. despising it . ibid. verse 21. ad●ò divisi crant , ●t invicèm communicare sacram caenam non dig●arētur . singulae factiones id agebant ut alia aliam praeverteret . paulini , verbi gratiâ , primi venientes suam caenam celebrabant , non expectatis petrinis , apollime is , &c. 1 cor. 11. 20. to celebrate the sacrament in a separated way is a perverting of the ordinance . 3. disqueting it . iudg. 5. 25. gal. 5. 20. 4. hindering it . 5. endangering it . hoc consensu stat & subnixa est salus ecclesiae , calvin in text . corpus organicum non potest dissecari quin pariter & totum & partes inter●ant . p. mart. in text. schism dangerous to the person ingaged in it , being the way to heresie . schisma viam facit ad haeresin & separationem à christo . ames . cas. consc. de schism . nullum schisma non sibi aliquam confingit haeresin , ut rectè ab e●clesiâ recessisse videatur , hieron. com. in tit. sicut amissio charitatis est via ad amittendam fidem , ità etiam schisma est via ad haeresin . aquin. 22. q. 39. ad 3. applic. let there be no schisms amongst us . quest . answ . separation from rome charged with schism . discharged . a compleat schism described . parts of the description four . 1. schism a separation . 2. a separation from a true church . 3. a voluntary separation . 4. vnwarrantable : whether secessio injusta , t●meraria . cham. de schism . 1. vnjust : or chamer . ib. 2. rash ; either 1. vpon a light cause . 2. carried in an undue manner . 1 cor. 13. 6. ibid. very . ver 4. cha●●r . de schi●●ate . epistle to m williams . separation from rome not such a schisme : because , 1 not from a true church . bish. hall in his reconciler . i say , shee is a true church : but i say withall ▪ she is a false church , bish. hall ibid. field of the church , in append. jun de eccles cap. 17. parem in rom. 16. 2. not voluntary : but , 1. necessitated . jer. 51 ▪ 9. 2. inforced . rev. 13. 16 , 17. die jovis mag●●● heb. don●ad●● , &c. p. mart. loc. comm de schis. 3. not an unwarrantable separation . 1. not unjust . re● . 18. 4. 2. net rash . schisma aliud malum , aliud bonum : malum quo bona , bonum quo mala scinditur unit●●s , muse . ioc. com. de schismate . many s●hi●ms amongst our selves . new separation , whether properly a schism , or no . t●ed by the at res●d description of s●●im . quest . 1. whether out churches be true churches . vindicated to be such . t. goodwi●s zo robab●l . argu. 1. here are pillars of truth . 1 tim. 3. 15. the golden candlesticks . arg. 2. here are the seales of the covenant , and consequently the covenant it selfe . rom. 9. 4. here is the presence of christ in his o●dinances . revel. 1. 13. here are societies of visible saints 1 cor. 1. 2. objections cleered . object . 1. we ha●● no true mi●●stery . alleg. 1. wee have our calling from rome . alleg. 1. we have not our calling from the people . subsequens ●onsensus jacobi in leam , fec● eos conjuges . object . 2. we want discipline . potest● ipsa seandala removendi , &c. de jure & quoad a●●um primum non potest ab ecclesiâ verâ separari ames . cas. conse. de eccles. object . 3. we have no right constitution . mr. cottons way of the churches , cap. 7. see acts and monuments vinculum hoc est soedue vel ex●ress●● , vel implicit●● , ames . medul c. 32. joyning to a church , what . qu. 2. whether here be a separation from these true churches . gal. 2. 12. 13. separation dis●laimed . yet justly ●harged . see m. rutherford , due right of presbytery , pag. 270. m. burrough● irenic . ●ag . 172. no separation , because no praeunion . church-covenant , how far necessary . qu. 3. whether this separation be voluntary . schismatici pr●rie dieun●ur , qui propriâ s●ionte separant , aquin. suit. 22. qu. 39. conclus . 1. here i , no coaction . 2. a necessity pleaded . 1. a naturall necessitie in so●e places , where congregations are too great . the soverain ●hur●●-remedy , prin●ed an 1645. john 19 , 23 , 24. muse●●l● ▪ com . de schism . 2 a moral necess●ty pleaded , in regard of our sinfull mixtures . the chief a●gument for separati●●n● . mixtures in church communion , the common stock upon which schism hath usually been graffed . cathari , qui seipsos isto nomine quasi propter mundiciem super●●issime atque ●●tosissime nominant august . de haeres . * nimia jam episcoporum christian● . rum in ipsum gregem dei insolentia , & in vivendi more & genere superbia , lux●● , etiam , 〈◊〉 opes & lanticia , quibus vir ille , & merito quidem ( ut epiphan. scribit , ) offensus saepe eos coram acerbe increpavit . dinaeus de heres. ex angust . & epist. propter hominum vitia coetum orthedoxa ecclesiae descrunt andaei , ( vel audiani , ) ( quod donatistarum erroris fu●● postea seminarium , ) sc. propter foenora christianorum , & concubinatus coelibu●● . danaeus ibid. & vid. simpson de haeret. et theodor . se ab eorum caetu separant quos peccatores & non satis puros judicant , ut seorsim cae . 〈◊〉 colligent , & schisma faciant . danaeus ibid. de donatist . cùm omnia sceleribus plena sint inter nos , promiscuè ei●●am ad . mitti omnes ad coenam sine graviori vel censurâ vel disciplinâ , &c. arct. problem . de anabapt . ● . de schismat . this new separation justly rendered suspicious . the allegation in reference to our churches further examined . alleg. answ. sinfull mixtures a just scandall . but no● so justly charged upon the church of england . much lesse upon all particular congregations . whether our supposed mixtures be a just ground for separation . enquire first whether they be unwarrantable . is . 42. ● . 2 if unwarrantable , whether yet they inforce a separation . the affirmative pleaded for by our brethren rev. 1● . 4. answ. no sufficient warrant for separation , because we cannot joyn with a church in a● particular acts of worship . answ. ● . communion may be held with a church where in there are some unwarrantable mixtures , without sin . reas. all private christians are not stewards in gods house 1 cor. 11. 23 vide aret. problem de schism . ● tim. 2. 20 2. much lesse fanners in his floor . matth. 3 ▪ 1● . private christians by cōmunicating with wicked men , are not thereby intangled in the guilt of their s●● . object . the church endangered by toleration of mintures . vnius homini● contagi●ne tota sap● inficitu● multitude . calv. ad loc. impunitas vitiorum alios ad peccandum invitat , pareus ad loc. but not all the members thereby presently made guilty . calv ad loc. — greu 〈◊〉 in agris 〈◊〉 scab●e ca●●t & poirigine po●ci ; vu●que contactâ livorem ducit ab 〈◊〉 juvenal . qu. 4. whether this separation be unwarrantable . demonstrated so to be ; being 1. unjust . sec●ssio totalis cum absoluta renuntiatione aut rejectione omnis communionis , non potest licitè adbiberi erga ecclesiam veram : sed partialis tantùm , quatenus communionon potest exerceri sine peccato , ames . cas. de s●●his●n . 1. having no warrant from the word . object . 1. rev. 28. 4. our separation from rome no warrant for this separation from us . object . 2. 2 cor. 6. 17. examined . object . 3. 1 cor. 5. 11. examined . what meant by eating : not religious , but civil cōmunion . commisc●ri , est familiariter versari cum aliquo , & e●us consuetudine implicari , calv. ad loc. if the former be unlawfull , much more the later . difference betwixt civill and religious communion . 1. the one arbitrary , the other necessary . calv. com● . ad loc. p. mart ad loc calv. ad loc. 2. unjust , because no warrantable cause for this s●paration . tertim abusus erat luxus , quod epulando usque ad e●rietatem p●tarent . ille vero ( inquit ) est ebrius . non a●cipi● haec quasi ●yperbolice dicta , sed quod vere sic profanarint sacrum ch●sti ordinent corinthii . pareus ad l●c . g●la plus . se is indulgebant . estiu●ad loc. * dubium esse possit an hoc genus convi●● pre●esserit apud corinthios , aut consecutum sit sacra mysteria . chrysostomus aperte dicit consecutum fuisse , quod videtur moribus veterum fuisse cōsonum , quia jejuni sumebant ; teste tertullian● , & hieronymo . p. mart. com. in 1. cor 11. 21. * 3 unjust in regard of some ministers who are hereby deserted . whether people may change their ministers as oft as they please . master burroughs . ire . nic . c 22. 4. injust in regard of the churches separated from . separation not agreeable to the rule of common equity . matt. 7 12. totius justitiae breviarium hieron. ad celant . alleg. 1. no way yet stated . judg. 17. 6. the present unsetlednesse of discipline , no just ground for separation . 1. the church not dissolved . 2. the church seeking out , her way . ezra 8. 21. 3. that way in part laid , out . alleg. 2. the churches way not held forth jure divino . ans. alleg. 3. a separation intended in our churches . ans. alleg. 4. what if separation be tolerated by authority . 2. the rashnesse of this new separation , proved 1. from the ground of it , which is not so weighty . si error est tolerabilis , non oportet fieri secessionem . chamer . de schism . etiàm secessio fit temerè cùm fit ob morum corruptelas . cujus rei baec ratio est , quod ubi cunque viget puritas doctrinae , deum in eo caetu necesse est habere ecclesiam tametsi obrutam penè multitudine scaudalorum , ch●mer . ibid. 1. as that which the brown●st●s had . 2. as to wish down shism . the unadvisedness of the new separation in many of the followers of that way : whose grounds are 1. the worthinesse of their leaders . acts 11. 24 gal. 2. 2. the prospering of their way . ingemuit totus orbis & arrianum se esse miratus est . hieron. advers. lucifer . 3. strictnesse in that way . 2. the rashness of this separation proved from the manner . 1. separating in a time of reformation . to separate from a reforming church a great aggravation . separation from this church now more unwarrantable then ever . 3. people withdrawing without ever consulting with their ministers . vse 2. exhortation to such as are withdrawn , that they would return . vse 3. a caveat to such as yet stand . let them take heed of being 1. principals in 2. accessories to this evil . nec pro ●is aliquid promulgasse quis invenitur , nisi apostata iulianus , cui pax & unitas christiana nimium displicebat . august . contra parmen. lib. 1. iulianus apostata donatistis basilieas restituit . marg. ibid. veteres scrutans historias inventre non possum scidisse ecclesiam praeter cos qui sa cerdotes a deo positi fuerant & prophetae . hieron. in hos. 9. 8. vse 3. labour to heal this , and prevent the like evil . odi operosas compositiones , crato . the healing of israels breaches , printed anno 1642. mr. burroughs irenicon . quest . what shall be done in way of cure . answ . civil restrictions left to authority . vide augustin . contra . parmen. lib. 1. 1. similia similibus . 1. cure division by division . 2. cure separation by separation . zach. 4. 10. ezek. 24. 6. 2. contraria contrariis . cure division by unity . ier. 32. 39. an established discipline the onely way to cure our divisions . gen. 1. 6. 2. what shall be done in way of prevention of schism . 1. take heed of lesser differences . 2. be not over affected with novelties . 3. take heed of scandals 1. of giving . matt. 18. 7. 1 cor. 10. 32. 2. of taking . 1 cor. 13. 7 gen. 9. 22. 4. see god in our congregations . gen. 28. 16 , 18. ezek. 9. 3. 2 cor. 3. 18. 5. despise no● the day of small things . zach. 4. 10. 6. have not the persons of men in admiration iude 16. 1 cor. 1. 12. gal. 2. 12 , 13. gal. 2. 6. gal. 6. 16. the apostles exhortation to unity . a threefold unity . 1. tongue-unity . that christians may speak the same thing . rom. 15. 6. 1. for substance . one language in this kingdom , how desirable ! 1. amongst ministers . acts 14. 12. iere. 15. 19. luke 1. 70. acts 3. 18 , 21. one tongue for one man . 1 tim. 3. 8. diodate ad loc. one tongue for all . iam. 1. 18. eph. 4. 4. division of tongues amongst us a sad presage . d. hall , contemplat . babel . 2. amongst people . new annot. in gen. 11. see mr. edwards gaugraena . 2. speak the same-thing for expression . see mr. edwards , ibid. ex praecepto apostoli quantùm fieri potest , cum illis loqui debemus , eum quibus credere videri volumus . pareus ad text. qui novas phrases , terminos , defivitiones rerum excogitant , plerun que etiam nova dogmata moliuntur , &c. pareus ibid. disagreeing in words ingendereth dissention of minde , whereof proceedeth repugnancy of judgement , which is the mother of schism and heresie , genev. annot. in text. applic. 2 tim. 1. 13. quest . answ . 2. heart-unity . the word [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ] explained . the proper signification of the word . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} significat ità aptè & congruenter aliquid componere & coagmentare , ut partes inter se & cum toto congruant , corn . a lapid. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. coadunati ac compacti ut totum quippiam quod suis omnibus partibus aptè inter sc cobaerentibus compouitur . beza . ad text. quemadmodum membra humani corporis optimâ symmetriâ inter se cohaerent . cato . ●loc . perfect union desirable in a church . col. 2. 19. vnion maketh a church compleat . 2 cor. 13. 11. corn . a lap. to church perfection two things requisite . 1. ut pare ●nlla defit , aut superfit . 2. ut omnia apte inter se cobaereant . beza gre. annot. 1. the due parts of it . 1. none wanting . ecclesia per ministerium habet organicum quendam statum , quoniam apta jam redditur ad omnes illas operationes exercendas quae pertinent ad bonum totius . ames medul . 2. none superfluous 2. a combination of those parts . applicat . seek we such perfection for all the churches in this kingdom . in the mean , time depart not from them . the metaphorical significatiō of the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} by physitians applied to bonefetting {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} galene est luxata membra in suum locum restituere . beza ad text. p. martyr . gal. 6. 1. p. mart. aretius . parcus . observations from the metaphor . schismate luxantur membra ecclesiae , pareus ad text. schism a disjointing in two respects . 1. membrae luxata inepta sunt ad sua munera obeunda . p. mart. 2. membra luxata gravissimo d●lore corpus afficiunt . p. mart. ps. 22. 14. iud. 5. 15 , 16 applicat . be we set in joynt again . how a church may be perfectly joined together . the same minde and judgement explained . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ege hic pro voluntate accipio . calv. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} gracis idem est quod latinis concordia , beza gr. an. ad loc. agreement in affection and opinion , desirable for the churches . act 4. 32. beza an. gr. in act. 4. phil. 2. 1 , 2. 1. heart unity . ier. 32. 39. rom. 12. 16 rom. 15. 5 , 6. quest . onenesse of heart how attained . answ . get new hearts , hos 10. 2. p , martyr ad text. phil. 2 , 3 , 4. 2. propound the same end , gods glory . 3. walk by the same rule , the word , phi. 3. 16. 4. be jealous of our own hearts . act. 15. 38. ver. 39. a useful caveat . 5. ●orbearand ●●rgive . eph. 4. 31 , 32. col. 3. 12 , 13. 6. neglect not the sacrament , an uniting ordinance . 7. labour for unity in judgement . a dream ●f the 〈◊〉 . amos 3. 3. toleration of several opinions and wayes destructive to unity . obj. vnity in judgement not possible . 1 cor. 11. 19. ans. 1. no plea for broaching , or tolerating ueresies . 2. not simply impossible . 3. agreement in fundamentals possible and necessary . conclusion . phil. 3. 15. a discourse of schism address'd to those dissenters who conform'd before the toleration, and have since withdrawn themselves from the communion of the church of england / by robert burscough ... burscough, robert, 1651-1709. 1699 approx. 304 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 117 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a30624 wing b6136 estc r11016 12331053 ocm 12331053 59674 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a30624) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 59674) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 206:6) a discourse of schism address'd to those dissenters who conform'd before the toleration, and have since withdrawn themselves from the communion of the church of england / by robert burscough ... burscough, robert, 1651-1709. 231, [1] p. printed for tho. bennet ... and charles yeo ..., london : 1699. errata: p. [1] at end. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng dissenters, religious -england. schism -early works to 1800. 2006-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-05 ali jakobson sampled and proofread 2007-05 ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse of schism : address'd to those dissenters , who conform'd before the toleration , and have since withdrawn themselves from the communion of the church of england . by robert bvrscovgh , m. a. london , printed for tho. bennet , at the half-moon in st. paul's church-yard : and charles yeo ; bookseller in exeter . 1699. a discourse of schism : address'd to those dissenters , who conform'd before the toleration , and have since withdrawn themselves from the communion of the church of england . the introdvction . having compos'd this discourse , with a design to do you what good i am able : i may reasonably desire that you would afford it an impartial and candid perusal , and read it with a resolution not to condemn any thing in it , without a due examination . this , indeed , is more than i can expect from those amongst you , who are byass'd with prejudice , or mov'd with a false zeal , or a worldly interest . but there are many of you , whom i consider under another character ; and who , i believe , may be ready to abandon their mistakes , upon better information . you may remember who it was that said , that which i see not , teach thou me ▪ if i have done iniquity , i will do no more . and if you think it no reproach to follow so laudable an example , but are willing to receive instruction ; i assure my self , that what i shall here offer to you , may contribute something to your satisfaction . you are like to find nothing here , that may give you any just cause of offence : nothing , but what proceeds from a spirit of charity . and if this , instead of convincing you , should only raise your indignation ; i shall be sorry for your sakes ; and yet have no cause to repent , that i have endeavour'd with meekness to bring you into the right way . and , i hope , that god , who knows the sincerity of my intentions , and measures them not by the event , will graciously accept of them . upon what terms the rigid separatists receiv'd you again , as members of their congregations , i know not . but since they have been wont to accuse our way of worship in the churches , of popery and antichristianism , of idolatry and superstition , they must needs look on you that once conform'd , as partakers then in the same crimes . and if you resolve to do the like again , upon the like or other occasions ; they cannot but esteem you as persons that would reconcile christ and belial ; or that make it an indifferent thing , either to come out of babylon , or to remain in it . and , according to their own principles , they may fitly speak to you , in these words of elijah ; how long halt ye between two opinions ? if the lord be god , follow him : but if baal , then follow him . if you will vindicate your own proceedings , you are as much concern'd as the conformists themselves , to refute the charge , and answer the objections of those men , against our liturgy , and ceremonies . but that work is well done already by dr. falkner , and others , to whom i refer the inquisitive reader . my business at present is chiefly with you , who think you may lawfully conform with us ; and yet have deserted our communion : a thing , indeed , that is very agreeable to flesh and blood , and which may make several turns of affairs more easy to you : but wise and good men would suspect an opinion and practice , which are so much on the side of the world ; and not like the truth the worse , because of the disadvantages that sometimes may attend it . it is to lead you to the truth , from which you seem to be at a great distance , that i publish this treatise of schism ; in which i consider your case , and bring it to a fair tryal . but to prepare my way for this , i thought it requisite to say something of church-union ; of which schism is a breach : for these two things being compar'd together , may give some light to one another . sect . i. that all christians ought to be united together , is very plain from the holy scriptures ; and it is a matter of such importance , that we find our blessed saviour repeating the same petition four several times within the compass of three verses , that his followers might be one. it is also observable , that he pray'd , that they might be made perfect in one ; that they might be one , as the father and himself are one. and nothing less can be understood by these words , than that he was desirous they should be one , in the highest and strictest manner of which they were capable , or that was possible for a society of men. st. paul describes the christian church as a building fitly fram'd together , growing into a holy temple in the lord : and as a body fitly joyn'd together , and compacted by that which every joynt supplieth . he saith also to the ephesians , and in them to all the professors of christianity , i beseech you , that ye walk worthy of the vocation , wherewith ye are called ; with all lowliness , and meekness , with long suffering , forbearing one another in love , endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . there is one body and one spirit , even as ye are called in one hope of your calling : one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god , and father of all , who is above all , and through all , and in you all . the same apostle writes thus to the philippians , if there be any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies ; fulfil ye my joy , that ye be like-minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one mind . how pathetick , how moving is his language here ? how admirably does it set forth the great care and concern of his soul , for those things which are the matter of his exhortation ! i must transcribe a great part of his epistles , should i produce all that they afford , pertinent to my present purpose . but you grant , i suppose , in general , that the unity of the church ought to be preserv'd ; and all the question being , wherein it does consist , or in what things it ought to be maintain'd : to this i answer , that all christians ought to be united , i. in faith , ii. in love , iii. in outward worship and communion . i shall but just touch on the two former of these ; but more largely insist on the last , in which the controversy between us is chiefly concern'd . i. all christians ought to be united in the same faith. for there is but one faith ; and we are obliged to contend earnestly for the faith , which was once deliver'd to the saints . the christian doctrine is not calculated , only for some particular times and places : nor is it to be vary'd by them , but ought to be kept entire , and free from impure mixtures . and when it is so , it must needs be the same in all places , and upon all occasions : the same in all the climates under heaven ; and under persecuting tyrants , the same as under nursing fathers and mothers : the same in the heart , and the same in the profession of all christians ; for as we ought to think , so we are oblig'd to speak the same thing . ii. they ought all to be united , or , as st. paul speaks , knit together in love. notwithstanding they are call'd to liberty , yet they are bound to serve one another by love : to be kindly affectionate to one another in brotherly love , and in honour to prefer one another . a new commandment , says our saviour christ , i give unto you , that ye love one another . and whether he calls this commandment new , because of its excellence , as the word is thought to signify , where we read of a new name , and a new song : or whether he styles it so , because he requires it in greater measure than formerly ; urging his followers by his own example , when he was about to suffer death for them ; to love one another as he had loved them ; manifest it is , that the thing which he here enjoyns , is most acceptable to him. but there is something more to be understood by these words , than is commonly apprehended , which is , that our lord having before taught his disciples , to love their neighbour , and even their enemies . he now gives them a new commandment , to love one another , as they were his disciples . he had before instructed them to love all mankind ; but now it was matter of a new and a distinct precept , that they should love one another , with a higher degree of affection , as being fellow-christians , and testifie it all possible ways , even to the hazard of their lives . our lord did not pray for the world , as he did for those that were given him out of the world : nor is it his will that we should be alike affected to both . we must exercise charity towards all , but with a particular regard to the members of his church . as we have opportunity , we must do good to all men ; but especially to them who are of the houshold of faith. iii. they ought to be united in outward worship and communion . and to this they are obliged both by their faith and love : it being one of the fruits , which both ought to bring forth , as worthy of them ; and which they must produce , if they are sincere . 1. faith ought to shew forth it self in good works ; of which one is the maintenance of christian concord . and this is so much the effect of it , or hath such connexion with it , that the christians church is represented in scripture as a houshold of faith. they also that liv'd in full communion with the church , are , by the ancients , call'd the faithful , and distinguish'd by that title , from the penitents , the hearers and others , who did in some degree belong to it ; but not being compleat members of it , they were not admitted to all the prayers , nor to the lord's table . 2. the love of the faithful being duly exercis'd , supposes them to live in outward communion , and keeps them in it . it is the duty of every one of them to love the brotherhood ; and of them all , to love as brethren : that is , they must love as persons that are visibly of the same family , or society , under the same lord. thus is the title of brethren to be understood in many places of scripture : and in an apology of justin martyr , as also in other writings of the fathers , it is apply'd as a name of distinction to such as were perfect communicants . but not to insist upon the limitation of it to that sense ; certain it is , that the word was of such frequent use amongst christians , who signified by it their spiritual affinity , or the near relation which they stood in to one another , that they were much noted , and variously censur'd for it by their enemies . lucian says , their law-giver perswaded them , that they were all brethren : and , caecilius suggests , that by some secret marks they knew one another to be of the fraternity . calumnies and invectives may be grounded on some truth , or be mingled with it : and the truth is , our saviour said to his followers , by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples , if ye have love one to another . and this could not be a meer inward love , for that was not capable of being a publick badge of their profession . nor could it be such a love as would permit them to be broken into various sects and factions : for it could not be gather'd from thence , that they had the same teacher . but then only could they demonstrate to the world by their practice , that they were under the discipline of the same master , in matters of religion ; when dispers'd , as they were , over the face of the earth , they frequented assemblies that were held in his name ; every where professing the same faith , and communicating in the ordinances which were of his institution . when he pray'd that they might be one , it was for this purpose , that the world might believe that the father had sent him. but the world would have discover'd no such thing , if they had been divided into many parties , not enduring to have communion with one another . the world would then have been ready to conclude , that if they had the same instructer , he had taught them different religions , or given them contrary precepts ; and consequently that he was inconsistent with himself , and not much to be regarded . but when they liv'd as members of the same body , making it manifest that they were affected towards one another with the tenderest charity , and unanimously joyning together in the same acts of worship ; they then took the most proper way to raise in the adversaries an esteem of christianity ; and to convince them that the author of it , who had such an influence on the conversation of his proselytes , was from heaven . for my part , i see not what just cause there can be , that they should be divided in worship , who are united in faith and love. on the contrary , it seems to me most reasonable , and i am sure it is agreeable to scripture , that they who are of one soul , should be of one body ; that they who are obliged to be of the same heart and mind , should speak and do the same things , and so keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace . to confirm this , and to proceed , in what i design'd , i shall prove that the church is a visible and regular society ; and then shew , that however it be dispers'd in the world , it is one political body . and if i make these things clear , it will be easy to infer from thence , that our communion with it ought to be visible and regular , or suitable to our station ; and that the unity of the whole , as well as of every part , ought to be asserted and preserv'd . i. the church is a visible society ; and persons are admitted into it , continued in it , expell'd from it , and restor'd to it , in a visible manner : such things being openly transacted in this , as in other communities . 1. persons are visibly admitted into the church by baptism . they are baptized into christ ; and at the same time they are baptized into one body . the same thing makes them members of christ , and of his body , and entitles them to all the benefits of the covenant of grace . 2. they that are admitted into the church , are continued in it in a visible manner . in the several places where they reside , they are oblig'd to meet together , for the celebration of divine worship : and accordingly we read of some of the first believers , whose example others ought to follow , that they continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking bread , and prayers . the christians in the apostles days , as well as afterwards , made use of several outward rites , by which they testify'd their mutual agreement . such were their feasts of charity , a at which the rich and poor did eat together as brethren ; and the holy kiss , or the kiss of peace , as tertullian calls it , a with which they saluted one another . b this indeed may seem a thing of little moment , yet was it the subject of an apostolical precept ; and in the primitive times it was not esteemed a small matter to neglect a ceremony c which was then in use amongst the faithful , as a sign of their union . this union is much more eminently set forth in the sacrament of the lords supper , which is to be continued till his coming to judgment , and so must remain a visible mark and constant pledge of christian concord . we being many , says st. paul , are one bread ; that is , we are as that one loaf , which we see at the lords table , and which is d made up of many grains of flower . he adds , that we are one body ; and he proves it from hence , that we are all partakers of that one bread. it is plain then , that our partaking of the same bread is a manifest sign of our being one body . but , as st. austin says very well , a whosoever receives the sacrament of unity , and does not keep the bond of peace , he receives not the sacrament for himself , or his own advantage , but that which is a testimony against himself . it is here to be consider'd , that as by one visible rite , which is baptism , we were admitted into the church , and made members of christ ; so by another , which is the eucharist , we do not only communicate with our brethren , but also with christ himself . for as they that did partake of the table of devils had fellowship with devils ; so on the contrary , they that partake of the table of christ , have fellowship with christ . the things , says st. paul , which the gentiles sacrifice , they sacrifice to devils , and not to god ; and i would not that ye should have fellowship with devils . ye cannot drink the cup of the lord , and the cup of devils : ye cannot be partakers of the lords table , and the table of devils . and says the same apostle , the cup of blessing which we bless , is it not the communion of the blood of christ ? the bread which we break , is it not the communion of the body of christ ? certainly it is , as the words import ; nor is this to be doubted by any christian . 2. offenders were expell'd from the church in as visible a manner as other criminals are disfranchis'd or depriv'd of the freedom of a city . the church dismissing them , mourn'd for them as dead . a and the persons ejected , as well as others , were sensible of this , that they were no longer members , nor intitled to the priviledges of the society , from which they were expell'd . if they repented of their enormities , they were far from believing , that their condition was the same that it was before the fall . they esteem'd the sentence pass'd upon them , as indeed it was , a sad anticipation of the future judgment . they b spent the day in lamentation , and the night in watching and sorrow . they put on the habit of mourners , and with tears and grievous cries they bewail'd their , own folly . they humbled themselves in sackcloth and ashes , and mortified their bodies with rigorous fastings . they threw themselves at the feet of those that went into the christian assemblies , begging them with great importunity to intercede for them , that they might be restor'd to the peace of the church , without which they did not think themselves safe , notwithstanding they knew the sincerity , of their own repentance . 4. the penitents were restor'd to the peace of the church in as visible a manner as they have been expell'd from it . when st. paul had given order to the corinthians to put away the incestuous person from amongst them , he afterwards directed them to forgive him , and exhorted them to confirm their love to him ; that is , to ratifie it publickly by their reception of him , upon his repentance , into their society . in the succeeding ages , the lapsed , or such as fell into grievous sins , were obliged to pass through several degrees of a severe discipline , in order to their a recovery : but being approv'd after a long tryal , the bishop and his clergy laid their hands on them , a and solemnly admitted them again to the communion of the faithful . you have seen that the church is a visible society ; and the profess'd enemies of it sometimes saw this but too well . for when associations , or ●raternities b were forbidden by the roman edicts , c the heathens thereupon persecuted the christians as coming under that prohibition . and the apolo-gifts for the sufferers deny'd not , that they were a corporation , but allowing this , pleaded their innocence . we are a body , says tertullian , d by the consent of religion , the vnity of discipline , and the covenant of hope . he confesses , that if their meeting together were like those seditious conventions which were punish'd by law , it would justly come under the same condemnation . but says he , e we are the same being assembled , as when we are dispers'd . we are the same altogether , as when we are taken singly and apart ; hurting no man , grieving no man. and when vertuous and good men meet ; when the holy and chast are assembled ; it is not to be call'd a faction but a court. ii. the church is a regular society . it is not a confused or scattered multitude , but a body fitly joyn'd together : a body consisting of many members , of which all have not the same office. some are call'd to preside and govern , and others to be under their inspection and authority ; and for the good of the whole , both ought to be exercis'd in the proper duties of their places and vocations . clemens romanus , endavouring to cure the corinthians of their schi●● , put them in mind , a that the high-priests , and the priests , the levites and the people , had each their peculiar work allotted to them : and lest christians should think themselves unconcerned in that instance , he presently adds , b let every one of you , my brethren , within his own station , be thankful to god ; not transgressing the canon , or rule which limits his service . after this he shews , c that however death was the punishment of such as did break the mosaical constitutions , yet as we are honoured with greater knowledge than the jews had been , so we are liable to greater danger : that is , if we pass our bounds , and raise disturbances , as they did . order therefore is still to be preserv'd in the church , and that more carefully than it was in the time of the aaronical priesthood . in the new testament we find that our lord gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , and some pastors and teachers . he gave them for the perfecting of the saints , or as the word may well be rendred , a for the compacting or joyning them together . he did it for the work of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of christ . and some such officers are always necessary , and must be continu'd , till we all come in the vnity of the faith , and of the knowledge of the son of god , unto a perfect man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of christ . amongst the officers of christ , the apostles are reckoned as the first , and were the chief : and since all the power that is purely ecclesiastical , and which ought still to remain in the church , pass'd through their hands , it may be very fit to consider , what authority they received from him ; for from thence we may gather , what they transmitted down to posterity for the government of his kingdom . now we find , that the apostles were the stewards of the mysteries of god , and had the keys of the kingdom of heaven . they were the representatives of christ on earth , and acted in his name , and in his stead . they were his ambassadors , and employ'd by him to reconcile mankind unto god , upon the terms of the new covenant . as the father sent him , so he sent them into the world ; and accordingly having so high a commission , they went about and labour'd to bring all nations under his discipline . when their work increas'd , they appointed some to serve tables , or to provide things necessary for the sustenance of the meaner proselytes . others they constituted not only to be teachers , but rulers of the churches . and if they rul'd well , especially if they labour'd in the word and doctrine , they were to be accounted worthy of double honour , or a double share out of the common stock . and thus a government distinct from that of the secular magistrate , and a long time oppos'd by it , was establish'd in all places where-ever christianity did prevail . there is , no need that i should here discourse of the form of church-government , having prov'd in another treatise , that this government from the beginning , was episcopal , and that the bishops were successors to the apostles . and this i have done by such arguments , as , i verily believe , cannot be answer'd , if it be but granted , that there is any such thing as an evangelical ministry , i had almost said as a christian , remaining in the world : and with those that would dispute or deny so evident a truth , whether scepticks or deists , or whatever else they are , i am not at present concern'd . but were all apostles , or bishops ? were all pastors and teachers ? no , certainly ; but there was a faithful people distinct from them , and under their care and charge ; and what the duty of the people was , may be gather'd from these places of scripture . we beseech you brethren , says st. paul , to know them which labour among you , and are over you in the lord , and admonish you , and to esteem them very highly in love for their works sake , 1 thess . 5. 12 , 13. agreeable to which are these words in the epistle to the hebrews , remember them which have the rule over you , which have spoken to you the word of god — obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls , heb. 13. 7 , 17. men are generally averse from enduring any thing of subjection ; but we are to consider that the obedience which is prescrib'd in the texts of scripture which i have cited , is to be paid by the faithful to those that are over them in the lord : over them for his sake , and on his account . the apostles , or bishops of the churches are said to be the glory of christ : that is , they are his representatives in governing such parts of his kingdom as are assign'd to their charge . the ground of this interpretation i have mention'd in another place , a and taken from 1 cor. 11. 7. where we read , that man is the image and glory of god ; which words , in the judgment of theodoret , b are not to be understood with respect either to the body of the man , or his soul , but to the domion that he hath from god over the creatures . in the same verse we read , that the woman is the glory of the man : the wife is the glory of her husband . she is , says theodoret , as it were the image of that image , and as such , she hath power over the rest of the family . it follows , that bishops being the delegates of jesus christ , the observance that is paid to them as bearing that character , is graciously accepted as done to himself , who hath said , he that receiveth whomsoever i send , receiveth me ; and he that receiveth me , receiveth him that sent me . we have seen , that the church is a body consisting of governing parts , and such as are subordinate to them . and as on this account , it is regular in its constitution , so it ought to be in its practice . for this reason , the spirits of prophets were subject to prophets : either to the prophets that had them , or , as i rather think , to superior a prophets . but certain it is , that even extraordinary gifts were to be submitted to the rule of peace and discipline ; and men that could speak by divine inspiration , might not exercise that power any farther , than was consistent with the precept of doing all things decently and in order . the word which is rendred order , often signifies a regular disposition of things ; or a due proportion of parts , with respect to the whole , and to one another . and in this , a so much of the beauty and strength of things consists , that st. paul had great reason to rejoyce as he did , when he beheld the order that was amongst the colossians . for he knew very well , that when they invaded not one another's work , but were employ'd in their own : when they , whose office it was to teach , waited on teaching ; and they that rul'd , did it with diligence ; when they that were under authority were submissive to it , and ready to receive instruction ; by such a happy concurrence they would adorn their religion , and fortifie it against the assaults of adversaries : they would do what was most beneficial to themselves , and acceptable to god , who is the author of peace , and not of confusion . iii. the church , however dispers'd over the world , is one political body . for it is the vniversal church that is said in scripture to be one body ; and it is compar'd to an organical body , because of the close connexion of the parts , and that due subordination , which , as i have shew'd , there is amongst them . this may seem evident enough , and yet the question about catholick vnity hath been so intangled with various disputes , that i shall endeavour to set it in its proper light : and for this purpose i observe . 1. that the church is not said to be one , meerly as professing a subjection to one invisible head , which is jesus christ ; but also because all the faithful are united and compacted , as in one body . for , says the apostle , as we have many members in one body , and all the members , have not the same office : so we being many are one body , and every one members one of another : all being knit together , and fitly dispos'd for the benefit of the whole . as there is but one root , so there is but one stock , from which indeed some branches were broken off , but many others were ingrafted into it , and it is still the same . the falling off of the jews would have left an empty space , but the complement , a or fulness of the gentiles , coming in , it abundantly supplies the vacancy . and the society , which is represented by the good 〈◊〉 tree , is still the same , notwithstanding it hath been under various circumstances and dispensations . as there is but one lord or master , so there is but one spiritual 〈◊〉 or houshold . as there is but one foundations of faith , so all the 〈…〉 and the whole building , must be 〈◊〉 fram'd together , that it may grew up into a holy temple in the lord. as there is one shepherd , so there is but one flock ; and all that 〈◊〉 his voice must be of the 〈…〉 . as there is but one captain of salvation , so there is but one army that is said to be terrible with banners ; and which is never so formidable , as when all that serve in it keep their ranks , and unanimously discharge their duties in their several a stations . as there is but one governour , so there is but one holy city : and as there is but one king of saints , so there is but one kingdom ; and all must be fellow-citizens , or fellow-subjects that own his dominion , or sovereign power . as there is one prince of peace , so he would have all his followers to have peace with one another , mark 9. 50. that is , he would have them live , not only as persons that have charitable inclinations , but in an outward and visible agreement and communion together ; as the word signifies frequently in the holy scriptures , and in the 〈◊〉 of the fathers . b to the 〈◊〉 effect , i suppose it is , that he requires them to have salt in , or amongst c themselves . for salt being sprinkled on the sacrifices , and offer'd with them , was a sign of a covenant with god ; 〈◊〉 a being us'd amongst men at their entertainments , it was also a pledge , or symbol of their concord and friendship : and our lord , probably alluding to such practices , would have his disciples live as persons that are united to himself , and to one another in a firm league ; and a league that none may break , and expect happiness from him , who hath drawn them into so strict a confederacy . in this confederacy all the faithful , of wh● nation soever they ●●e , are alike concern'd ; for jesus christ , who 〈◊〉 said to be our peace 〈…〉 to th●se that were 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 th●se that were nigh . he hath brought together 〈…〉 and gentiles , and 〈…〉 that was between them he made them one : of the two , he made one new man. so that they who were strangers and forreigners , are 〈…〉 with the saints , and of the 〈◊〉 of god. they that were at a great distance , are now reconcil'd to god in one body . but no longer than they are of this body can they claim this benefit of that reconciliation : nor may they hope for spiritual nourishment from the head , but as it is ministr●● by the joynts and bands , by which the body , being knit together , increaseth with the increase of god. 2. to maintain a catholick vnity , it is not necessary , that there should be a visible and catholick monarch or vicar of christ , with jurisdiction over all churches and their several pastors : for christ hath appointed no such deputy ; nor hath he left any instructions to inform us , that there should be one● on the contrary● the apostles , 〈◊〉 have shew'd , a who receiv'd their commission immediately from him , were of equal authority , and so were their successors . none of us , ( says st. 〈◊〉 , b ma●●s himself a bishop of bishops , or by a ●yrannical terro●● compels his collegues into a necessity of obedience . this he spake in a council at carthage , and with reflection probably on stephen bishop of rome , who injuriously invaded the rights and liberties of his brethren , as in succeeding times many others have done , who were possess'd of the papal throne . but a just account of their usurpations would fill many volumes and belongs not to this place . 3. neither to maintain a catholick communion , is it necessary , that there should be a standing court for the administration of the government of the catholick church . it is decreed by us all , says s. ●●prian , a and it is fit and just , that every one's cause should be heard where the crime was committed . so far was he and his collegues from approving the appeals of offenders to any 〈◊〉 country , or forreign 〈◊〉 't is true in some cases , the ancient canons allow'd , that appeals might be made from a bishop to a provincial synod ; and such a synod might well decide matters in debate within the bounds of a province : but beyond them , it had not the same authority . and as for general councils , they were only summon'd upon extraordinary occasions , and having done their work they were dissolved . but that a general council should always be continued , for the ending of differences , and the exercise of discipline ; that there should be such a perpetual● council establish'd in any place , and that the last resort should be made to it from all the parts of the christian world , is not , i suppose , asserted by any . it can neither be expedient in it self , nor hath it any foundation in the holy scriptures . but since the catholick church was not to be govern'd by a visible monarch , nor by a fixed senate ; since it is distinguish'd into many particular societies , the governours of which are of equal authority , and not subject to one another , the difficulty still remains , how it can be one as a political body . for resolution of which , i shall shew , first , that the government of it is one. secondly , that the people under it , are one also . but what i say of both , is to be understood of them , so far as they agree to christ's institution : for we can form no good idea of church-government from the present broken state of christendom . i. the government of the universal church is one. according to st. cyprian , a who understood this matter perfectly , there is but one epis●●●acy . and this is possess'd by the bishops in such a manner , that they are all legally one , and every one of them is vertually all . but both these propositions may require some explication . 1. all the bishops of the universal church are legally one ! that is , as a college in law is one person ; so they being a college , in the sense of the ancients , b are one also . they 〈◊〉 the person of christ , and if christ be not divided , neither are they . they are not divided , i mean , so far as they act according to his will and the rules of their order . c but i meddle not with the particular faults of any , nor am i accountable for their irregularities . 2. every bishop is vertually all ; or hath vertually the power of the whole episcopal order : and so united he is with the other bishops in the administration of the government , that what he does in several cases , which i shall mention , is as obligatory to all the rest , and of as much force , as if it had been done by their actual consent and approbation . for example . 1. a bishop ordaining presbyters , does it as effectually , as if all other bishops had assisted at it , and his act is as obligatory to them all . for the persons so ordain'd do not part with their office when they change climates , but ought to be receiv'd in all churches as bearing the same character , a and be employ'd accordinly , if there be occasion , in the work of their ministry , without a new imposition of hands . this , i know , is contrary to the opinion of some of your brethren , who are persuaded , that a minister is only so to his own congregation ; and that if he preaches to another , he doth it not as a pastor , but as a b gifted man : and consequently , if he takes a new charge upon him , he must have a new a ordination ; and this i consess is agreeable enough to their own system : for their minister being a creature of their own , and claiming his 〈◊〉 to the ministry , from their election of him , and upon such terms as they prescrib'd to him , all the supposed vertue of that choice must cease , when he is gone from them , and cannot bind another congregation that hath no dependence on them . but how ever this is suitable to th●●● own principles , it hath no ground in scripture , or the practice of antiquity . amongst the hereticks indeed , in tertullian's b time , there was something like it : for with them a person was the day a priest , and the next a laym●● : but in the church the standing officers were so for life , 〈◊〉 in all places kept their station , unless they were depos'd for their crimes , or advanced to a higher dignity . the words of a judi●ious nonconfor , mist , which i shall here c cite , are very pertinent to my purpose : if a minister , says he , be only so to his own congregation , and not in other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the ministry one , nor the flock which they feed one , nor the communion one which they had each with others . and i add , that if a minister as such , be related to the catholick church , if he may be remov'd from one part of it , and take on him the peculiar charge of another , without a new ordination , as the presbyterians generally asse●● , then are the churches one , the ministry one , the flock which they feed one , and the communion is one , as that of a visible and political society . 2. if a bishop , or other minister appointed by him , confers baptism on persons fit to receive it , it is as effectual every where , as if all the spiritual pasters upon earth , had concurr'd in that act. it is that one baptism , which never ought to be repeated , nor is there any need that it should ; for the ●ame being every where of the same vertue , it both qualifies us alike in all places for christian communion , and gives us a right to demand it in any part of the world. but of this more hereafter . 3. when a bishop excommunicates oftenders , they are thereby cut off from the communion of the whole church . we have been told by a dissenter , that whosoever will erect a stated , national , governing church in england , 〈◊〉 find us an officer cloathed with authority to excommunicate from michael ' s ●mount in cornwall , to carlile and berwick . but there is no need of such a discovery to prove more than he demands . to prove the vnity of the catholick church , it is enough , that when a bishop excommunicates any criminals of his own diocese , the effect of his sentence reaches every where ; and at the greatest distance , it is obligatory to his collegues , who being duly inform'd of it , are ●o regulate their practice by it , and not admit those to communion whom he hath expell'd from a it , unless it be by his , c●●●ent , either expresly given , or vertually contain'd in 〈…〉 of the church . and anciently it was a great part of the business o● episcopal letters , to declare what offenders were excommunicate , that they might every where be avoided or treated as persons that were ejected out of the christian society . this way of proceeding with them is a plain argument , that in the sense of these times , ecclesiastical , government , was one , however the administration of it was in many hands : and it is also agreeable to the holy scripture , which will not suffer us to believe , that they who are cut off from the body of christ in one country , are members of it in another . they can gain no such advantage by shifting places : nor can it be thought , that they are kept bound and loos'd on earth● unless they may be absolv'd and condemn'd in heaven , at the same time . 4. it follows , that when a bishop absolves the offenders of his , diocese from the ecclesiastical censures , under which he had put them , he thereby rest●●es them to the peace of the universal church . thus it was generally thought 〈◊〉 the primitive times ; and the persons to absolv'd , having obtain'd from their bishop his communicatory a letters , were then as much qualified for full communion in worship with other christians , in all parts of the world , as if they had 〈◊〉 been condemn'd . all other bishops to whom they apply'd themselves , were obliged to r●●●●ve them into the number of the faithful , and to act by the sentence of 〈◊〉 collegue , as if it had been their own . and this they did sometimes , and thought it expedient , when they were not well satisfied with his a proceedings . 't is true , the sentence of a bishop , either for condemnation or absolution , might be revers'd or declared void by a synod ; and it was fit that it should , if it was unjust , or sometimes , if it was only irregular . if it was otherwise he might withdraw it , or he concluded , by the votes of the synod ; and it was ●●ch better in such cases , that one should submit to the judgment of many , who were assembled by mutual agreement for the administration of discipline , than that the great benefit of synods should be lost . but when 〈◊〉 began to make himself a bishop of bishops : when he took it upon him to be their judge , and to exercise a jurisdiction over them , this gave a new turn to the affairs of the church , and alter'd them much for the worse : it made a mighty breach upon the antient discipli●● and was the foundation of the papul 〈◊〉 . i have suppos'd all along , that however a bishop is by his office a pastor of the catholick church , yet it is but some part of it that is allotted to his special care , as it was most expedient for the benefit of the whole . but the further consideration of this matter being of great use , it may be requ●●●●e to trace it to the beginning , and to observe , that the apostles , who of all the officers of christ were most at liberty , being sent to disciple all nations , might all have gone to one nation , and le●t others destitute of help : but to prevent this , they distributed their work in such a manner , as might be most for the publick good , and best answer the ends of their commission . i need not inquire , what countries , or cities fell to the charge of this or that apostle : and indeed our knowledge of that is very imperfect : but this you find in scripture , that st. paul , with whom the other apostles doubtless agreed , would not build upon anothers foundation : he would not stretch himself beyond his measure , nor boast in another man's line of things made ready to his hand . as the apostles employ'd themselves with great prudence to carry on the work of conversion , so they dispos'd and settled things in an excellent order , and some light it may give into them , that when there is mention in scripture of a province or country where the gospel was received , we read of the churches of it . thus we read of the churches of j●dea , of the churches of macedonia , of the churches of galatia , and of the churches of asia . these several churches then were distinct societies , under their proper governours ; who yet were united in such a manner as i have describ'd ; and the nearer they liv'd to one another , the better opportunity they had of meeting together for mutual advice and assistance , and for the decision of ecclesiastical matters . but when the discourse is of the christians of a city , which is to be understood as taking in its a territory , then the style is alter'd , and we read of the church in jerusalem , in antioch , in corinth ; of the church in pergamus , in thyatira , in sardis , in philadelphia ; of the ephesine church , of the church of ●●●●●naeans , of the laodiceans , and of the thessalonians if you will but be at the pains to consult the places to which i have refer'd you , you will certainly find the matter as i have related it : and from hence the presbyterians strongly argue , a that how great soever the number of christians was in any city , and notwithstanding they made up many congregations , as they needs must in some of the cities , yet they were constantly call'd a church , as being under the same particular government . i differ from them in this , that i believe the government was episcopal : for as there is mention of seven churches of asia , so there were just so many angels , or supream pastors of those churches , and the like may be said of others . but this i have more fully handled in another treatise , to which i have refer'd you before for satisfaction . 't is true , the extent of diocesses is not always the same , nor is there any certain rule for it in the holy scripture ; but since it appears necessary from the scripture , and the nature of the thing , that some limits be fixed ; and since the diocesan , and parochial divisions in this kingdom , are confirm'd by all the authority that the church and 〈◊〉 could give them private persons ●●ght to submit to it . for however there may be some inequality in such distributions , that being hardly avoidable , no disturbances ought to be rais'd about them ; it being certain , that such inconveniences can never be mended by confusion . ii. the faithful people , under their lawful pastors , make up one body . this may be gather'd from what went 〈◊〉 ; but i shall farther make it evident . 1. from their duty . 2. from their rights . from both it will be manifest , that they are fellow-citizens , or visible members of the same community . i. to begin with their duty . 1. they are obliged , as you have seen , to honour 〈◊〉 obey their spiritual rulers ; to adhere to those that are over them in the lord , and hereby they maintain an union with all other pastors of the church , that are one in government . for if they are one with any of those that are one amongst themselves , they must needs be all a one 〈◊〉 2. it is their duty to joyn together in publick acts of worship , with that company of christians , which they find established under a lawful pastor , where they reside , which may happen to be in england , or america , or at different times in the most distant places , as they remove from one to another . and from hence it appears , that all those companies make but one society , or catholick church , and are members of it . for otherwise by passing from one country to another , and consequently from the congregation to another , a person would lose his former title and benefit of being a visible member of christ and his church , and gain others in their stead ; and this might happen as often as he changed climates . but this is too absurd to need a consutation . ii. that the faithful make up one body appears from their rights , which are the same every where . in one sense they a●● every where strangers on earth ; but in another they are at home in all a places . the priviledges which belong to them as christians , are the same in every country , and they may as justly challenge them , as the natives of it . some cities who were associated together , did so value themselves for it , and receiv'd such mutual benefits and honours from their concord , and from their being of one community , that they express'd these things upon their coins , and other monuments of antiquity , b which are yet remaining . but the vnity of the christian church is of greater extent , and takes in the faithful of all nations . this vnity is founded on a divine institution , and the baptismal covenant , in which they are all alike engaged , and not on a formal positive league amongst themselves . nor does it so much resemble the union of the confederate cities , as that of a city in its self ; which may consist of many corporations . for all the members of it are a fellow-citizens , and as such they have the same prerogatives in all the parts of the world. but more particularly . 1. according to scripture , and the sence of the primitive b times , a christian travelling into any remote parts of the world , was intitled to the rights of hospitality amongst other christians : rights which anciently were held great and c sacred , and in times of persecution , were very useful and necessary : he need but produce the usual testimonials , d by which he might be known to be a christian , and to have liv'd in conformity with the church , from whence he came , and he was to be receiv'd and entertain'd by the faithful in all places with such tenderness and liberality , as if he had been a guest of the most intimate friendship and long acquaintance : a thing that julian the apostate could not see without envy and a admiration . if a christian suffer'd want , other christians were to consider him , and provide for him as one that was of the houshold of faith , or of the same family with themselves : and whether he was a hebrew or greek , or of what nation soever he was , it was the same thing ; he was not to be neglected in such ministrations . it was also the same whether he was of this particular church or another ; for if one church was in distress , and not sufficient for the maintenance of its own poor , others were obliged to assist it out of their collections ; still remembring , that as they were of the same body , so they were also members one of another . lucian in his usual way scoffing at the christians , represents them flocking to his peregrinus in prison , moving every stone , that they might free him , performing diligently for him all offices of kindness , and sending messengers to him joyntly from the cities of asia , to support and comfort him under his sufferings . it is incredible a ( says he ) what expedition they shew , when such a thing is publickly known : but to be short , they spare nothing on such occasions . and whosoever is meant by this peregrinus , the truth is , that if a christian brother was in distress , they gave him what assistance they were able ; if he was imprison'd , or in chains for righteousness sake , they were not asham'd of his bonds , but openly own'd his cause , and chearfully ministred to his necessities , even when it expos'd them to the greatest dangers . this they did not as a matter of choice , which they might have omitted , but as a necessary duty ; and they did it so often , and that without any regard to nearness of blood , or habitation in the sufferers , that their union was visible to the eye of the world , and the heathens who were astonish'd at it , did then make no doubt , whatever men do now , but that they were of the same community . it is farther observable , that their contributing to the support of one another , is never in the epistles of the new testament call'd , a a giving of alms , but communion , or communication : and i take the reason of it to be this , that the faithful had , thus far at least , all things in common , that the wants of some were to be supply'd out of the plenty of others , as out of a common stock , or treasury , in which they had a share , as being members of the same society . 2. the faithful have every where a just title to all the common ordinances and priviledges of b christianity . for instance , are they here admitted to visible communion in publick acts of worship ? so they ought to be , if they come to the remotest churches upon earth . st. peter said of the gentile converts , can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized ? and so may we say concerning those who are baptized , and have done nothing to deserve excommunication ; can any man forbid them the publick prayers , that they should not put up their requests joyntly with other christians , in any part of the world ? can any man forbid them to partake of the lord's supper , when their demand of it is regular ? now , as st. paul , when he pleaded at jerusalem , that he was a roman , gave a sufficient indication , if it had not been otherwise known , that he was within the bounds of the roman empire : so if a true christian , in all churches where-ever he comes , hath a right to communion with them , and may plead that right , 't is manifest that they all make up but one vniversal church , and are members of one body . diogenes the cynick , refus'd to be admitted into some of the heathen mysteries , because in order to it , he must have been made a citizen of athens , which did not seem agreeable with his profession , of being a citizen of the a world. and indeed if a christian could only partake of the holy mystery , as the lord's supper is sometimes call'd , in a particular congregation ; i know not how it could be said , that he were a member of the catholick church , or that in strictness of speech , there is any such thing . but since in all the nations under heaven , where christianity is establish'd , he hath a right to communicate at the lord's table , as well as in other parts of worship ; this is a plain argument , that the christian society is the same every where , and is not to be multiplied according to the number of the places where it is dispers'd . jesus christ hath broken down the wall of partition which was between the jews and gentiles , and permits not any thing amongst his followers like the distinction which there was between the proselytes , and the native israelites . there is nothing in his gospel like that inscription which forbad the aliens to enter into the inner court of the a temple , nor doth he esteem any to be such that submit themselves to his discipline : he gathers his subjects out of all nations , governs them by the same laws , and gives them the same charter ; the benefit of which they may alike enjoy in samaria , or jerusalem , or in any other place as well as either . this shews , that living in a way suitable to the dignity of their profession , they are in all places of the same community . and according to st. peter , where he speaks of them as distinct from the world , and with respect to it ; they are a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , a peculiar people , the people of god ; as israel was formerly the lot of his inheritance . 3. any of the faithful that are personally qualified to bear an office in the christian church , are capable of it or of being ordain'd to it , in all churches ; and this also proves , that they are all united in one community . the cumani and others a were but imperfectly united to the romans , when they could only serve in the roman armies , but might have no command in them , and neither had any voice in the choice of magistrates , nor might themselves be chosen . but according to aristotle , b it is a principal mark of a citizen , that he doth or may partake of the judicature and government of the city . and since every christian who is otherwise fit for it , proceeding regularly , may be advanced to a sacred function , in any country where he is a stranger , as well as if he were a native of it : from hence it follows , that both strangers and natives are alike of the same political body . and this reasoning must be good , if aristotle had the true notion of a city , who is generally allow'd to write of such things with great exactness . what hath been said , sufficiently shews , how the catholick church , however dispers'd , is one. but it will appear with the greater force , if you please to compare it with the case of independent and separate societies , in which you find nothing like it . you may bear office in one of these societies , but have no title to it , nor have any of your acts esteem'd valid in another . you may be members of one , and justly excluded from another . you may enjoy the priviledges of one , and want those of another . you may be banish'd from one , and made denizons of another . acts of state bind only the subjects of the state , and oblige not forreigners that are under another dominion . but this demonstrates the vnity of the catholick church , that what is done by one governour , or bishop , is valid amongst all the rest ; and taht a private christian who hath an obligation on him , and a right to an actual and full communion with a particular church , hath the like with all other churches , where he happens to reside . having prov'd , that the vniversal church is one body , i shall only add , what gives us great encouragement to preserve the unity of it , and affords us a most delightful contemplation , that it is now the same body that it was from the beginning . for as a city may remain the same for a thousand years , or even to the end of the world , and is therefore said by some ancient writers to be a immortal : so is the church the same that it was from the first foundation of it . and from hence it is that if we communicate with those who derive their ministry by succession from the apostles , and with such professors of christianity as adhere to that ministry , we do it vertually , or by interpretation , with the apostles themselves , and with the saints , confessors , and martyrs , that rest from their labours , and are now in happiness , waiting for a glorious resurrection . to this effect tertullian a says , that from the apostolical churches , all other churches borrowed the branch of faith , and seeds of doctrine ; and from them it is daily that churches become such , and so are esteem'd apostolical , as being the off-spring of the apostolical churches . every thing must be reckon'd with its original ; and therefore so many great churches are as the one first church constituted by the apostles , and from which all are descended . so all are first and apostolical , whilst they alike approve the vnity : whilst there is amongst them the communication of peace , the title of brotherhood , the covenant of hospitality ; the rights of which nothing preserves , but the tradition of the same sacrament , or mystery . but this is not all : for being in communion with the apostles , we are so with the father and the son. that which we have seen and heard , declare we unto you , says st. john , that you also may have fellowship with us ; and truly our fellowship is with the father , and with his son jesus christ . the father will take care of us as his peculiar people , and the son will influence and govern us as our head ; a head that hath such a tenderness for his church , that he is represented in scripture , as making up one person with it : for , says the apostle , as the body is one , and hath many members , and all the members of that one body , being many , are one body : so also is christ . and being of his church , we are assur'd , that he will nourish and cherish us as members of his body , of his flesh , and of his bones . sect . ii. vve have seen that all christians ought to be united in faith , love , and in outward worship and communion : and if you grant this , you must also acknowledge , that a breach of union in any of these things , where-ever the fault is , must needs be sinful . for it is plain , i. that if there be but one faith delivered to the saints , for which they must earnestly contend , they grievously offend who add new articles to it , or take away from it such as are already reveald , or otherwise deprave it by a mixture of falshood . and so far as they do so , we ought to depart from them , and not betray or deny the truth in compliance with them . ii. if all the faithful must be firmly link'd together in love , this must condemn all discord and malice , all envying and strife amongst them , as being directly against the spirit of charity . and indeed where these things are , there is confusion and every evil work. iii. if all the faithful are obliged to live in outward communion , as visible members of the same body , then such a division in the body as is a breach of that communion , must be criminal ; a thing , i know , that many of you are unwilling to hear of : but mr. baxter a has suggested a reason of it , which i hope , does not reach you all . whence is it , says he , but for want of self-denial , that men that know that whoredom , and drunkenness and these are sins , can be ignorant in the midst of light , that discord and church-divisions are sins ? and that they hear him with heart-rising enmity , or suspicion , that doth declaim against them ? as if vniting were become the work of satan , and dividing were become the work of christ ! these words i would recommend to your serious thoughts ; and being now come to that which is the chief subject of our debate , i desire you sincerely to consider , that not only modern writers , but the fathers , who were no parties in our present controversies , speak of schism as a most horrid crime . st. optatus a mentions it as a mighty wickedness ; and argues , that it is worse than murder and idolatry . and st. chrysostom b affirms , that nothing equally provokes god , as the division of his church . he makes it equal to the crucifying of christ : which , he says , was for the good of the world , however not intended ; but this , continues he , affords no benefit , but the greatest mischief . to mention no more at this time , st. irenaeus c says , that god will judge the schismaticks , who having not the love of god , but being intent on their own profit , rather than the peace of the church , for small matters , or for any , divide the great and glorious body of christ , and do what in them lies to kill it , speaking . peace , but making war ; straining indeed at a gnat , and swallowing a camel. you need not think it strange , that these excellent men , who had seen the sad effects of church-divisions , express'd such an abhorrence of them . st. paul himself reckons seditions and heresies with adultery , fornication , vncleanness , lasciviousness , idolatry , withchcraft , and other works of the flesh ; of which he says , that they that practise such things , shall not enter into the kingdom of god , gal. 5. 19 , 20 , 21. the word rendred seditions a signifies schisms , and it is us'd for dissentions about matters ecclesiastical ; and heresies in this place are sects and factions . the various sects of orators b and philosophers c were called heresies : and st. austin d speaks the language of more ancient authors ; where he says , that aristotle , even in the time of his master , drew very many into his heresie : but the christians living conformable to the precepts of jesus christ , were judged by their enemies to be one heresie ; and they were indeed of one way . he gave them all the same rule , and as long as they are followers of that , there cannot be such differences amongst them , as are usual amongst those that are of usual amongst those that are of separate schools , and under opposite masters , but they must all appear unanimous in the matters of faith and worship . 't is true , that many professing christianity , became irregular , and departing from their duty , did break the unity of the church . such were the corinthians , to whom st. paul says , i hear that there are divisions among you , and i partly believe it ; at which he did not wonder , considering their temper ; for , he adds , there must be also heresies among you , that those who are approved , may be made manifest . by hereses we are not here to understand false doctrines , or obstinate errors in the fundamental articles of religion , but such contentions and making of parties as disturb'd the peace at corinth . the apostle intimates , that such there would certainly be , by reason of the pravity of mens minds ; but he condemns them as carnal , and speaks of them as things that are avoided by all that are approved . and according to this interpretation , a man that is a heretick , and who is to be rejected , is the sectary , who draws disciples after him , or is of the number of those that are seduced by him . it becomes not me to pass judgment on particular persons , whom we see engaged in church-divisions , nor to determine what their final state will be . to their own master they must stand or fall : and he only knows what merciful allowances he will make for their mistakes , for the prejudices of their education , or the like . this hidden thing belongs to him , and therefore cannot be the rule of our actions but since it appears from what he hath revealed , that schism is a sin , a hainous sin , a sin that , without pardoning mercy , as certainly leads to perdition as any other ; i thought the greatest piece of charity i can do you , would be , not to flatter you in your way , which , i verily believe , is schismatical ; but to shew you the great danger of it , and do what lies in me , to rescue you from the wrath to come . in order to this , i shall shew you , i. what is the nature of schism . ii. what grounds i have to apprehend that you are deeply concerned in it . iii. examine the arguments that have been offer'd on your part , to excuse you from the guilt of it . iv. i shall represent to you the said consequences of it ; and so proceed to the conclusion . and may almighty god inlighten your minds , and dispose your hearts to an attentive perusal of what i write for your advantage . i. schism , in the notion of it that we are now upon , is a causless breach of outward ecclesiastical communion . not but that it is sinful before it breaks out into action , when it is only form'd in the heart , or is only in design ; but that we cannot take cognizance , or judge of it , before it appears abroad in opposition to the visible church ; and when it does so , there are several degrees of it . 1. sometimes there is a schism within a church . 2. sometimes from a church . 3. sometimes it proceeds to set up opposte churches and officers . 4. sometimes it goes yet further , and constitutes pastors without any lawful authority , or ordination . i know not how it can go higher ; but all these particulars may be aggravated with many circumstances , which do not come under our present consideration . 1. sometimes there is a schism within a church ; when its outward communion is in some measure continued , but shatter'd and broken , so that it appears not with the beauty and strength of a regular society . thus it was amongst the corinthians , to whom st. paul says , when ye come together in the church , i hear that there are divisions among you . being very contentious , they brought great disorders into their assemblies . being factious , and much given to sideing and making parties , one said , i am of paul ; another , i am of apollos . the apostle therefore reproves them as carnal ; and beseeches them by the lord jesus christ , that they would all speak the same thing , and that there should be no divisions among them . and in another place he puts them in mind , that there should be no schism in the body , but the members should have the same care one of another . but whereas dr. owen a contends , that the notion of schism is only to be taken from the instances of it at corinth , and consequently that schism is only a division in a particular church , but not from it ; it may seem very strange , and is , i believe , of his own invention . he declares , that he went out of the common road ; and would persuade us , that he made considerable discoveries . what a flood of abominations , b says he , doth this business of schism seem to be , as rolling down to us through the writings of cyprian , austin , and optatus of old ; the schoolmen , decrees of popish councils , with the contrivances of some among our selves concern'd to keep up the swell'd notion of it ! but he pretends to have traced it to its fountain , and compares it to a dribling c gutter . and whereas protestants had been apt to impute it to one another , he intimates , that , upon irrefragable evidence , he would acquit them all from their several concernments in the charge of a it : that , as he speaks , the whole guilt of this crime might be put into an ephah , and carried to build it an house in the land of shinar . he confesses , that in the management of this work , he had the prejudice of many ages , the interest of most christians , and mutual consent of parties at variance , to contend withal . yet hath his project been approv'd by many : and lewis du moulin says , as in a rapture of admiration , that the whole christian world , from the apostles times , never knew such a notion of the nature of schism , till the dr. taught it them : which , i suppose , is very true : but he might have added , as another dissenter thinks , b that neither was it known to the apostles themselves . but is schism a sin ? is it a thing , even in the confession of dr. owen himself , that being unrepented of , will ruine a man's eternal c condition ? and did no body knew wherein it did consist ? were all christians careful to avoid it under the peril of their souls ? and did none of them discover what it was ? did the ancient fathers speak such terrible things against it , and none of them understand what they said ? did they make no doubt to lay it to the charge of the novations and donatists ? and might these be innocent all the while ? are the scriptures so plain in their directions about things that are necessary either to be done or avoided ? and are they so obscure in this , that for the space of about sixteen hundred years , neither the learned , nor unlearned could find out what they meant , till in this present age one arose , who made the discovery ? but in this case the novelty of his 〈◊〉 once it is a sufficient argument against it ; and it is in effect , an acknowledgment , that the independents wanted some new thing for the vindication of their practice , which , i am sure , cannot be defended by the common receiv'd principles of christianity . but because the doctor is of no small reputation amongst dissenters , let us consider a little the force of his reasoning : the schism at corinth , was a disorder in a church ; and from hence he infers , that a separation from a church , is not schism ; and that for the separatist to be a schismatick , is a impossible . but can you really believe , that one would do you wrong , if he made a small rent in your garment , and none if he should tear it in pieces ? that he would be injurious if be wounded your hand , and innocent if he cut it off ? can you imagine , that a mutiny begun in a camp , or kingdom , is seditious ; and that an open revolt is not so ? but as well may you be persuaded of all this , as that faction and disorder in a church , is a sinful division , and to desert it , as unworthy of communion , is none . whether such a desertion be expresly stiled schism in scripture , is not material , if it be a greater division than that which is call'd by that name . for , as i have always thought , when any thing is forbidden as sinful , others that are worse , but of the same kind , come under the same prohibition . otherwise things that for their filthiness , are not fit to be nam'd , may be very fit to be done ; and holiness may be consistent with the most detestable pollutions . 2. a farther degree of schism , is a causeless separation from the church : for it is worse in its own nature , to renounce a society with which one is obliged to live in communion , and ordinarily more tends to the dissolution of it , than it does to create some disturbances in it , as it also gives more scandal in the eye of the world. 't is true , the disturbances may sometimes be so great , that the desertion of those that raise or keep them up , may be more desirable , or a less evil to the church , than their continuance in it ; but to the offenders themselves , it can be of no advantage , but is rather an addition to their guilt and misery . i would , says st. paul to the galatians , that they were even cut off , which trouble you ; a or that unsettle , or move you from your stations : and to be cut off , doubtless he esteem'd a very great judgment . and yet under this , the sectary brings himself , of whom the same apostle says , that he is self-condemn'd : not that the sectary confess'd his fault ; nor that he had secret convictions for it ; for these could not have been ground of his rejection , or of proceedings against him ; but by wilfully departing from the unity of the church , he in effect inflicted on himself the punishment which the church useth to the greatest malefactors , and so was broken off from the body of christ . i need not here enter upon the debate , whether episcopal ordinations and baptism confer'd in schism , are valid , it being sufficient for my present purpose , that according to the rule of catholick vnity , which is grounded on the scripture , and was universally receiv'd by the faithful in the purest ages , schismaticks persisting in their separation , can do nothing that can qualifie them for communion with any part of the catholick church ; and therefore in that state they must be excluded from the whole : being wilfully divided from some , they cannot be united to the rest of the christian society , which are one amongst themselves , and all members one of another . if they are not of the body , i do not see how they can be united to the head. break off a bough from the tree , says s. cyprian , a and it blossoms no more . divide a river from the fountain , and it will be dried up . and this in his judgment sets forth the condition of those that cut off themselves from the christian church . he adds a little after , if a person could escape , who was out of the ark of noah , then shall one escape also , who is out of the church : but , says our lord , he that is not with me , is against me ; and he that gathereth not with me , scattereth : and he that breaks the peace and concord which christ hath established , acts against christ himself . in like manner st. ignatius , a disciple of st. john , and glorious martyr of jesus christ , tells us , that he that is not in the sanctuary is depriv'd of the bread of a god. and of a person that comes not to the publick assemblies , he says , b that he is proud , and hath condemn'd himself . for it is written , god resisteth the proud : let us therefore not resist the bishop , that we may be the subjects of god. if you search the scriptures you will find , that to forsake the christian community , was in effect to renounce all the priviledges of it , and openly to disown christianity it self . they went out from us , says st. john , but they were not of us : for if they had been of us , they would no doubt have continued with us ; but they went out , that they might be made manifest , that they were not all of us . st. jude represents such men under a very ill character , as being mockers , and w●●king after their own vngodly lusts : and says he , these are they who separate themselves , sensual , having not the spirit . they pretended to greater perfection than others , but their deserting the christian assemblies , together with a vicious conversation , discover'd them to be carnal , and to be govern'd by no higher principle than that of the animal life . they that are truly spiritual , are of another temper , and as they walk in the light , so they also think themselves obliged to cause their light to shine before men , and to keep up the face of a church , not only when their affairs are prosperous , but also in times of difficulty . for then it is , that they are more especially requir'd , to consider and provoke one another unto love , and unto good works ; not to forsake the assembling of themselves together , as the manner of some is , but to exhort one another ; and so much the more as they see the day approaching . 3. schism sometimes proceeds beyond a separation , and the persons engaged in it , set up opposite churches and officers , or joyn with them . this is a degree of the sin much worse than separation , considering it only as such , without the addition of immorality , false doctrine , or apostacy , which are often mingled with it . you are not to expect , that i should give you examples out of scripture of schismatical churches drawn from churches , and establish'd under separate pastors ; for i do not find from thence , that schism had made so great a progress , as to form regular societies , opposite to the deserted churches . but if the vniversal church , according to christ's institution , be one body , to set up another body in opposition to it , or any sound part of it , must needs be very criminal . this , we find , some were attempting in the apostles days , and some directions that are given by st. paul , are very useful on this occasion . he advises titus , as you have seen , to reject a heretick , or sectary , after one or two admonitions : and he writes thus to the romans ; i beseech you brethren , mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which you have learn'd , and avoid them . st. ignatius , who was instructed by the apostles , tells the philadelphians , that if any one be a follower of the schismatick , he shall not inherit the kingdom of a god. he also admonishes the church of smyrna , that nothing in church-matters should be done without the b bishop ; and declares , that the eucharist is then to be esteem'd valid , when it is celebrated by the bishop , or a person appointed by him . but without the bishop , he says , it is not lawful to baptize , or to keep the feast of love : and he adds a little after , c that he that doth any thing in a clandestine manner , without the bishop's knowledge , d serves the devil . st. cyprian , who flourish'd in the next age , and also died a martyr , as ignatius had done , says , e that he that adheres not to his bishop , is not in the church ; and that they flatter themselves in vain , who not being at peace with the priests of god , creep about , and think , they may privately communicate with certain persons , when the church , which is one catholick society , is not in it self out or divided , but connected every where by the vnion of the bishops . the same author says , a that one altar may not be erected against another ; and that a new priesthood cannot be rais'd . he that gathereth elsewhere , scattereth . whatsoever is appointed by humane fury , that the order of god may be violated , is impious ; it is adulterous and sacrilegious . 4. a yet higher degree of schism is , when they that are engaged in it , constitute officers without authority ; or take to themselves pastors that have no lawful mission , or real ordination . such pastors may pretend to a commission from god ; but having none , and seeming to do his publick work without a warrant , in the judgment of presbyterian writers , b they mock him to serve their own turns : they profane the sacred function , and make a trifle of the sin : they are troublers of the people , and the subverters of souls ; they take away the distinction between the shepherd and the flock , and arevsurpers of the broad seal of heaven : they bring all to confusion , and like so many phaetons , burn up the spiritual world , by presuming to govern the chariot of the sun. according to dr. owen himself , they that act in the stead of christ , and not by express patent from him , are plain a impostors . but he more fully expresses his thoughts on this subject in these words ; all power and authority , ( says he ) b whether in things spiritual , or temporal , which is not either founded in the law of nature , or collated by divine ordination , is vsurpation and tyranny ; no man can of himself take either sword. to invade an office which includes power over others , is to disturb all right , natural , divine and civil . that such an authority is included in the pastoral office is evident , 1. from the names ascrib'd to them in whom it is vested , as pastors , bishops , elders , rulers ; all of them requiring it . 2. from the work prescrib'd to them , which is feeding by rule and teaching . 3. from the execution of church-power in discipline , or the exercise of the keys of the kingdom of heaven committed to them . 4. from the commands given for obedience to them , which respect authority . 5. from their appointment to be means and instruments of exerting the authority of christ in the church , which can be done no other way . he farther shews , that the whole flock , the ministry it self , the truths of the gospel , as to the preservation of them , are committed to the pastors of the church , who must give an account for them . and nothing , continues he , can be more wicked and foolish , than for a man to intrude himself into a trust , which is not committed to him . they are branded as profligately wicked , who attempt any such things among men , which cannot be done without impudent falsification . and what shall he be esteem'd , who intrudes himself into the highest trust that any creature is capable of , in the name of christ ? whoever therefore takes upon him the pastoral office without a lawful outward call , doth take unto himself power and authority without any divine warranty ; which interests him in an accountable trust , no way committed unto him , hath no promise of assistance in , or reward for his work ; but engageth in that which is destructive of all church-order , and consequently of the very being of the church it self . these are his words , and you may do well to bear them in mind till a farther occasion . in the mean time i desire you to consider , how tender the almighty is of his own constitutions and what punishments he hath inflicted on those ▪ who made invasions on them . vzzah incurr'd his displeasure for taking hold of the ark , when he saw it shake , and therefore might seem to be justified by a good intention . but being no priest a or levite , on this account his action , which otherwise might have been laudable became sinful in a person not qualified for it . and however it had some appearance of necessity , and proceeded from a good end , yet this could not excuse him , but he suffer'd present death for his transgression . if he was an upright man , as he seems to have been , we need not doubt but that he met with favour and happiness in another world : but in this , god made him an example of his justice and severity , that he might guard the discipline of his church from the assaults of others ; and that he might teach posterity , says a palladius , to abstain from the like rashness . long before this , korah with a high hand affronted the divine authority , and made bitter invectives against the government and officers which were appointed by god himself . it was envy and ambition that first push'd this man into an action so impious , and would not afterwards suffer him to retreat . being guided and mov'd by such restless furies , he revolted from his superiors , and he was divided , says the chaldee paraphrast , b or he divided himself ; that is , he became a separatist , that he might make himself the head of a party , and drew such vast numbers after him , that josephus c speaking of their conspiracy , thus represents it : we have not known , says he , such a sedition either among greeks , or barbarians . korah pretended to have a great concern for the liberties of the people , and that he might gain the priesthood to himself , suggested that it was a grievance to the nation . but god that knew his hypocrisie , and the schismatical and seditious temper , both of him and his confederates , made both of them monuments of his indignation . by an early and dreadful judgment on these offenders , he confirm'd his own institution : and he commanded , that broad plates for the covering of the ark , should be made of their censers , that in succeeding times others might remember , what these men suffer'd , and be mindful , that no stranger who was not of the seed of aaron , might come near to offer incense before the lord , lest they should be as korah and his company . it is plain that not only the leaders of the faction , but their followers also , were involv'd in the same ruine . and this being written for our instruction , it may teach us to avoid such practices as brought upon them so terrible a judgment , lest , as some have done even in the times of the gospel , we also perish in the gain-saying of korah . 't is true , an end is put to the aaronical priesthood ; but christ , who is the head of the church , hath his representatives on earth for the government of it ; and to despise them , is to despise him : to usurp their authority , is to invade his prerogative . and if we are not principals in such actions against him , but yet support and assist those that are so , we partake with them in grievous sins . you your selves must needs see , if you will judge impartially , what intolerable presumption it is , not only to expel the stewards of his houshold , but to substitute others in their places , and new-model his family , not only to affront and reject his ambassadors , but to assign him others , whom he hath not sent : not only to lay aside his officers as unfit to govern , but to appoint him such as have no commission from him . such proceedings manifestly tend to the destruction of his visible kingdom , and the persons guilty of them do in effect declare , that they will not have him to reign over them . aristotle a argues , that when the form of the government of a city is changed , the city it self ceases to be the same that it was before : and whatever exceptions this may be liable to , as being affirm'd of a secular community ; it may be truly said of ecclesiastical societies , that when they have excluded their lawful pastors , and advanced others into their places , who have no right to the ministry , they cannot remain the same under such alterations . they are no longer the churches of christ ; nor are their teachers the ministers of christ . they may deceive men indeed , by acting under a false character ; but god will not be mocked . he will not be impos'd on , by the boldness and juggles of his feigned stewards , or by the pageantry of his pretended ambassadors . it was for such , and their confederates that he created a new thing ; causing the earth to open her mouth and swallow them up . and however such instances of his anger are not repeated ; yet this that i have mention'd , ought to be a lasting terrour to those , that without a lawful call take to themselves the honour of priesthood , or are associates in such profanations . sect . iii. i am now come to your case , and give me leave to tell you , that it very nearly concerns you to enquire . i. whether you have not contracted the guilt of schism in your separation from the church of england . ii. whether you have not increased this guilt by setting up opposite churches and officers , or joyning with them . iii. whether your pastors have any just title to the ministry . i. it concerns you to enquire , whether you have not contracted the guilt of schism by your separation from the church of england . was your communion with it lately lawful , and have any new terms been added , to make it cease to be so ? or was conformity then a duty , and is it now become a sin ? it is not long since we took sweet counsel together , and walked to the house of god as friends : with many of you we did partake of the lord's supper , and thereby solemnly testified . that we were all as one bread , all members of the same body . and hath any just cause been given you of breaking off your selves from it ? are you not self-condemn'd by such contrary practices ? or can the divisions which you have made proceed from that one spirit , whose unity is to be kept in the bond of peace ? deal but impartially with your selves in considering what i have offer'd to your thoughts , and i doubt not but you will be convinced that you have broken that bond ; and that your present separation is a schism , if ever there was any such thing in the world. ii. you may enquire , whether you have not added to your sin , by setting up opposite churches and officers , or joyning with them ; and whether this hath not more alienated your minds from those whom you had unjustly forsaken . this , i suppose , is generally your case ; and from hence it is , that in abundance of towns in this kingdom , we hear of an old church , and a new church ; the latter labouring to establish it self on the ruines of the former . but do you find any such language , or any such thing in scripture ? have not the presbyterians inform'd you right , that however there were such great numbers of christians in one city as made up many congregations ; yet they were all one church , and are constantly call'd a church , because they were all under one government ? what right can you then have to establish independent congregations , or to set up one congregation against another , in the same city ? is not this a plain breach of the apostolical rule ? and must it not be pernicious to christ's visible kingdom ? if some part of the christians in a city may shake off the authority of their lawful pastors , and form themselves into an independent body , under their proper officers , may not a third body in like manner be form'd out of that , and out of the third fourth , and so on : and would there be any end of confusions at this rate ? would such a practice be tolerable any where ? or , would it not be destructive of any society whatsoever ? deal 〈◊〉 now with your consciences , and reflect , i pray you , on what has been said , with the same freedom of thought , as if you had not been at all concern'd in the controversie ; and i am persuaded , you will be convinced , that it is not unjustly that you have been charged with a high degree of schism . iii. you may enquire , whether the pastors you have chosen , have any lawful call to the ministry . some of the dissenters , i know , do not think themselves much concern'd about this : for they tell us , it is the duty of every gifted man , as such , to exercise his gifts ; that if he has receiv'd gifts to teach publickly , he must exercise them publickly ; and that he himself may be the judge of his own gifts . but says mr. pool , a a learned nonconformist , what can be expected , but that this doctrine should be a trojan horse , whence the adversaries of truth , may break out and destroy the city of god ? a pandora's box , from whence all sorts of mischievous and foul poysoning opinions may fly out , and that without remedy ? and say the assembly of divines , a this opinion , that any who suppose themselves gifted men , may preach the word and administer the sacraments , we judge to be the highway to all disorder and confusion , and inlet to errors and heresies , and a door open'd for priests and jesuits , to broach their popish and antichristian doctrine . there are some , b it seems , lately risen up amongst us , that are in expectation of new priests and prophets , who will be alter'd , they say , by such a visible appearance of majesty in their very countenance , as may be call'd the writing of the father's name upon their foreheads , as it was with moses when he came from conversing with god , and with our blessed lord himself , when the clouds of glory overshadowed him . and this at present may be thought a harmless opinion , however there be no foundation for it : but the patrons of it , we see , can adventure upon predictions , and new revelations , without any such splendor upon them as they describe ; and how much farther they may proceed , we know not . as for your selves , i suppose , that there are few , if any , of you , that ascribe the call of your pastors , or their distinction from other men , to a miracle , but you generally believe , that to constitute them in their office , some ordination is necessary , or expedient at least , whether it be perform'd by a bishop , or by presbyters , or by the people : for there are those amongst you , who lay claim to their ministry these several ways . 1. some of them , i confess , had episcopal ordination . but since these must have solemnly promis'd , that they would obey their ordinary , i would have you consider , how the blessing of heaven can be expected on their work , as now it is managed , when it is a continual breach of that engagement . yet if they had made no such engagement , their separation from their bishops to whom they owe obedience , and from the church to which they ought to be united ; their passing beyond their line , and their drawing disciples after them , which belong not to them ; their gathering churches out of sound churches , and opposite to them ; and their administring the sacraments , which are the bond of vnion , in a dividing way ; are things highly schismatical . and however such men may be eminent for their personal abilities , yet in their exercise of them , if we may believe . st. ignatius , they serve the a devil . before i come to examine other pretences of your teachers to the ministry , give me leave to put you in mind , that the elders and messengers of the congregational way , who met at the b savoy , confess'd , that in respect of the publick and open profession , either of presbytery or independency , this nation hath been a stranger to each way , it 's possible , ever since it hath been christian : and the like they might have said of all other christian nations . the truth is , neither of those sects were anciently in being , and then we are not like to hear of their ordinations . it is but of late that they appear'd , and therefore we have the more reason to enquire , whether there be any ground for their establishment , or what right they have to make such changes in the church , as they every where attempt . if a person should now profess , that he was sent to dethrone all kings , and to new-model all governments , he would have no cause to be angry , if we propos'd these questions to him : by what authority doest thou these things ? and who gave thee this authority ? and if men will be now endeavouring to depose , or degrade all bishops , to abrogate their office and overthrow their chairs , and to set up a discipline which was unknown to all the churches upon earth , they may not be offended , if we desire a sight of their commission . the prophet jeremiah was set over the nations , and over kingdoms , to root out , and to pull down , to build and to plant : that is , he was not to make these great turns of affairs himself , but only to prophesy of them ; and to do this it was manifest , that he was appointed of god. but some would perswade us , that they may act as great matters as he was to foretell : that they may destroy that sort of government which hath been transmitted down to us from the apostles , throughout all succeeding ages , and was established in all christian nations ; and that they may introduce another that was unknown to antiquity , and for above a thousand years after christ , not receiv'd by any church in the world. we have therefore reason to demand of them a sight of such credentials as make it plain , that they are sent of god. and since they have been so forward to make invasions on an order of men which hath been in possession of ecclesiastical authority for above sixteen hundred years , they must pardon us , if we question their own title to it , or say to them as optatus a did to the donatists , who are ye , and from whence did ye come ? i have nothing here to do with forreign protestants , whose call , they say b to the pastoral office , was extraordinary . but my business at present is with your teachers , who pretend to no such thing , or , if they do , may be easily refuted . they have taken upon them the sacred function in a new way , a way that was never approv'd in ancient times ; and therefore we may demand a sight of the patent , by which they would justifie their innovations . h. amongst the innovatom , i doubt we shall find the second 〈◊〉 of your teachers , which i have mention'd , and these are they who claim a title to the ministry , as being ordain'd by presbyters . they would be thought , i know , to be of very antient extraction ; and for this , quote these words of st. 〈◊〉 to timothy , neglect not the gift that is in thee , which is given unto thee by prephecy , with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery . and this text of seripture they take to be so evident are their fide , that they urge it frequently , and to comply with their interpretation of it , they wrest other , passages , which make directly against them . so that on this one place the whole fabrick of their cause seems to depend . yet is this place so far from plainly asserting the thing for which they contend , that calvin himself , a who was the father of their discipline , could find in it no such matter . for he thought that presbytery here signifies the office of a presbyter ; and then the meaning would be , that timothy should not neglect , but be careful to exercise that presbyterial office , or power , which was committed to him by laying on of hands . so that if the greatest patron of presbytery , and one that had sagacity enough to discover what might be advantagious to it , was not mistaken , this passage of scripture affords it no support . mr. selden a favours the interpretation of calvin , and confirms it with citations from the story of susanna , from josephus , from eusebius , and from the council of ancyra . yet remaining something doubtful of the true meaning of the word , he censures those , b who from this single place of the new testament , and that of an vncertain reading and sense , form'd such strange notions of the jurisdiction of a christian presbytery , as if it had been then founded on a divine institution . nevertheless , let us suppose that by the presbytery we are to understand the persons that did bear the office ; we are not certain from the expression it self , who are here intended by it . for it is a name of dignity , not always taken in its limited sense , but sometimes attributed to ecclesiastical officers of the highest rank . st. john twice calls himself a presbyter in his epistles ; and st. peter assumes the same title , where he says , the elders which are among you i exhort , who am also an elder . and now the question is , whether the supream , or inferiour presbyters , ordained timothy ? that is , whether they did it , who had power to ordain him ; or they , who , as far as we can find , never had any such authority . and this , i think , admits of an easie resolution . we do not find in scripture , that to mere presbyters any such authority was ever committed ; nor are there any footsteps of it in antiquity . but if they must be thought to have quitted it presently after the apostles days , there were never men that at such a vast distance of place , so universally , and all on a suddain conspir'd to degrade themselves , and to yield up their rights tamely , without any complaint . yet with so much artifice must they be imagin'd to have betray'd their trust and cover'd their shame , that no discovery was made of it for fifteen hundred years . we hear of no claim of any such power made by any presbyters before the fourth century , when aerius and others oppos'd episcopacy : but they were expell'd from the churches , a and could no where gain an establishment ; nor are they of such a character as may give reputation to any cause . yet if mere presbyters might constiture others of their own character , it doth not follow that they could ordain timothy , who was a bishop , and had jurisdiction over them , as i have shew'd in another place . they could not give what they never had , nor communicate a power which they had never receiv'd . thus the fathers argue in the case . and on another occasion , salmasius himself asserts , b that such reasoning is good concerning the conveyance of an authority which is of divine institution ; as that is , which is now in question . the dissenters , i know , contend , that timothy was not a bishop , but an evangelist ; and evangelists , say they , were extraordinary officers ; they were companions of the apostles , and of a higher rank than pastors . but if this be admitted , doth it at all mend the matter ? who ever saw , or read , says salmasius , a that they who were to have extraordinary power , were delegated by those who had no more than ordinary ? can you imagine that mere presbyters can ordain an evangelist , whose office was so much exalted above their own ? can you really believe , when there is no revelation for it , no ground for any such thing , that the private ministers of a congregation appointed collegues for the apostles ? surely it is more probable at least , if it could not otherwise be discover'd , that the apostles made choice of their own fellow-labourers , to whom , as there was opportunity , they committed the government of the churches . yet to prevent all c●villing as much as possible , let us suppose , what i do not grant , that the persons in the text were mere presbyters , it does not prove that others , who at this time assume that title , have the power of ordaining presbyters ; and if they attempt it , there is nothing in the text , that may be for their vindication . to make this appear . 1. it is to be observ'd , that st. paul himself ordain'd timothy , and says to him on that occasion , i put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of god which is in thee , by the putting on of my hands . and if he condescended to call to his assistance some inferiour officers for the greater solemnity of the action , it does not follow that they could do it of themselves without him ; and much less , that they could do it in opposition to him , or any other that should be in the same station . 2. if mere presbyters had the power of ordination , when they are suppos'd to have confer'd it on timothy , it may well be thought to have been some personal priviledge which died with them ; for we find no marks of it in succeeding times . st. jerome , a who of all the fathers , is the greatest favourite of the presbyterians , says , that originally , a presbyter was the same as a bishop ; and that at first , the churches were govern'd by the common council of priests , till by the instigation of the devil , divisions did arise ; and one said , i am of paul , and another said , i am of apollos , or i of cephas ; and then it was decreed all over the world , that one chosen out of the presbytery , should be placed over the rest , that to him the whole care of the church might be committed , and so the seeds of schism be extirpated . and if he has truly related the matter , this change must have been made when many of the apostles were alive , and transacted by themselves . and we need not doubt , but when the new prelates were constituted , they were distinguish'd from all inferiour officers , by the power of ordination . certain it is , that afterwards this power was every where thought peculiar to the bishops ; and when they had been in possession of it , much above a thousand years , common equity requires , that we should judge them to have had it by right , unless the contrary do appear . but there is no ground to believe that they were usurpers of it : no probability that they would ingross it to themselves , especially in the early times , when they were generally such mighty instances of humility and meekness , of patience and self-denial . there is not the least complaint le●t us of any such thing ; nor is it at all credible , that they should so universally attempt it ; or , if they did , that they should have the same success in all the churches upon earth . it follows , that they who take upon them the power to ordain , having never receiv'd it from those that were vested with it , do it in the wrong of the lawful possessors , who alone could convey it ; and having np just title to it , they can no more constitute a minister of christ , than they can make dead bones live . 3. the office which timothy had , was given him by prophecy , 1 tim. 4. 14. or , according to the prophecies that went before of him , 1 tim. 1. 8. his ordination therefore , if the way of arguing much us'd amongst dissen●●rs be good , must have been an extraordinary thing , and is not to be drawn into precedent , except in parallel cases . but your pastors , i suppose , do not pretend , that they were markt out by prophecy , or distinguish'd by a particular revelation , and therefore they cannot here find any defence of their pretences to the ministry . 4. the dissenters , by affirming that timothy was an extraordinary officer , and evangelist , cut off all the succour which they would draw from this place , for the vindication of their ordinations : for according to their own opinion , here is no example of presbyters constituting a presbyter , or a fixed pastor of a church ; and then certainly there is none to be found in the bible . i know not what they can reply to this , unless they would shift their principles , and confess , that we have in timothy an instance of episcopal government , or standing prelacy ; and if they would advance thus far towards us , i may refer them to what i said before , to prove that his ordainers must have had apostolical , or episcopal authority . iii. others claim their title to the ministry , as being ordain'd by the people . a but what divine precept , what rule have they for this ? what example have they for it , either in scripture , or out of scripture , in any part of the catholick church ? if they have discover'd in it so much as one pastor of their way for above a thousand years after the day of the apostles ; i would demand , as st. austin a did in another case , out of what earth did he spring ? out of what sea did he arise ? from which of the heavens was he dropt ? for my own part , after all the research that i have been able to make , i can find no such person ; not so much as an instance of one in all antiquity . 't is true , st. paul did foretell , that the time would come , when men would not endure sound doctrine : but having itching ears , would heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts . and tertullian b informs us of some hereticks , who impos'd on private persons the office or peculiar work of the priesthood . but your ministers , i suppose , will not insist upon such passages as these for their vindication ; and yet i know no other that can support their cause . the assembly of divines , who have been the oracles of the presbyterians , write with great assurance of this matter . for , say they , a we challenge any man to shew any one text in all the new testament , for the justification of a popular ordination . to what purpose , add they , did paul aud barnabas 〈◊〉 from place to place to ordain elders ? why was titus left in crete , to appoint elders in every city ? might not the people say , what need paul leave titus to do that which we can do our selves ? if this doctrine were true , the apostles needed only to have preach'd , and to have converted the people to the faith ; and when they had done , to have said , we have now done our work : you may 〈◊〉 elect and ordain your officers your selves ▪ the power of these things belongs to you . but the apostles did quite contrary , &c. they afterwards complain b of a generation of men then risen up amongst them , who disclaim'd all ordination from ministers , asvnwarrantable and antichristian , and took it up from the people as the only way of the gospel : whereas , they tell us , it hath not the least ●ooting in the new testament , nor in antiquity ; but is in effect a renouncing of 〈◊〉 ordinance of christ as antichristian , and of all the ministers and churches in the christian world : a thing that would engage men to be seekers , and to forsake all church-communion , as many , they say did , in those vnhappy days . salmasius , who was on the side of the assembly , and otherwise a man of prodigious learning , declares , a that the people have power to impose over themselves a king , which may be true in some cases , but they had never any to elect and ordain presbyters and bishops . calvin also affirms , b that not the multitude of believers , but the pastors only impos'd hands on their ministers . and that they only ought to do so , is so much the common opinion of the reform'd , that in the judgment of blondel , c that work was not ascrib'd to laymen by any protestant . our separatis●s , i know , are divided about this matter : and however the● that call themselves the vnited ministers a &c. agree in this , that it is requ●site that a person who is chosen to the ministerial office , be duly ordain'd they do not declare by whom , or 〈◊〉 what manner , he is to be so . nor could they declare it , but they must have discover'd their divisions , which 〈◊〉 much art they endeavour'd to conce●● and now that i am upon this subject i cannot but take notice , that when the heads of their agreement were sent from the city into the country to gather subscriptions : amongst other articles of that union , it was asserted , that ordination was to be perform'd 〈◊〉 imposition of hands ; but this was afterwards left out in the printed copy , to the great surprize of many subscribers that had approv'd it . and leaving you to judge of the sincerity of the managers of this affair , i shall think it no great digression to make this remark , that there is amongst the separatists , a prevailing party , who would say aside a ceremony which is of divine , or apostolical institution , and which has been of constant use in all churches . but whether they reject it as sinful , or whether they are sensible that their ordainers have no right to it , or what other inducement they had to discharge it , i pretend not to determine . i only urge them to prove by any good authority , that a congregation may ordain their own pastor , either without that rite , or with it . if they are not able to do this , it may easily be decided , whether they have imitated the pattern in the mount , which they would be thought to follow with so much exactness ; or whether they have not forsaken it in a matter of the greatest moment , that they might establish their own inventions . i have now enquir'd what title your pastors have to the ministry ; whether they pretend to it , as being ordain'd by presbyters , or by the people , and can find nothing of validity in it . if they can demonstrate it to be good , let them produce their strong reasons for it . but if no just defence can be made of it ; then , according to the doctrine of their brethren , express'd in the last section . they mock god , to serve their own turns : they profane the sacred function , and make a trifle of the sin : they are the ●roublers of the people , and the subverters of souls : they are 〈◊〉 impostors and vsurpers of the broad 〈◊〉 of heaven : they are the disturbe●● all right , and the pha●ton's that burn 〈◊〉 the spiritual world : they 〈◊〉 themselves into a trust , even the 〈◊〉 trust , which was not committed to 〈◊〉 and therefore are to be reckon'd among●● those that are branded as 〈…〉 wicked , and guilty of impudent ●●●cation . if this sounds harsh , i hope you will remember that it is the language of your brethren : and if your pastors would make fit reflections on it , i might hope that they would not esteem 〈◊〉 their enemy for dealing plainly with them , but rather be thankful for my endeavours to save them with fear 〈◊〉 by a faithful representation of their condition to bring them to repentance . i doubt many of them are hindred from this by their numerous followers ; and therefore charity does the more ●●●strain me to warn you , not to be partakers with them any longer in dividing the church ; not to assist or encourage them in giving such deep wounds , as they do , to the body of christ . there may be other cases of schism which are perplex'd and difficult , but ●●urs is not of that number . for to sum up all , 1. you have forsaken a church to which , by your own confession , your conformity was lawful . you have abandon'd the whole episcopal communion , and thereby in effect you renounced all right to the ministry and sacraments . 2. you have not only deserted those who by your own acknowledgment are lawful pastors , but to their great disturbance , and a farther breach of unity , you have brought within their line , and in opposition to them , other guides of your own chusing . 3. these , for the most part , are such as had no episcopal , or real ordination . so that you have exceeded the novatians , donatists , and meletians , who had their proper bishops ; and these , upon their repentance of their irregularities , were received by the church into the same station which they possess'd before in the time of their separation . but no part of the ancient church ever admitted of a pastor of your way . none ever approv'd your presbyterian and popular ordinations . when one of the former sort did first appear , it was condemn'd as null and a void , by the third council of b alexandria . and the other , till of late , was never heard of in the christian world. thus have i laid before you a just account of your state , as you are divided from us ; and to clear it , i have given you the true character of your preachers ; i mean as they are such , and bear their part in the schism : it is only on this occasion that i have modled with them , and now exhort you with all earnestness , to depart from the tents of those men , left ye be consumed in their sins . sect . iv. having shew'd what grounds i have to apprehend that you are deeply engaged in schism , i come now to examine the arguments that have been offer'd on your part to excuse you from the guilt of it , and i shall set them down in this method . i. it has been said , that notwithstanding your present separation from us , yet you are one with us , because we both adhere to the same doctrine . ii. that in the apostles days there were independent and seperate churches planted in the same city . iii. that jesus christ hath declar'd , that when two or three are gather'd together in his name , there he is in the midst of them ; and that you assemble in this manner , and are therefore assur'd of his favourable presence . iv. that paul rejoyced that christ was preach'd even by those men who did it out of envy and strife ; and if the case of your teachers were as bad as this , you have no reason to be solicitous about their call , nor we to be offended about their work. v. that you are only return'd to those whom you had forsaken before , and that you might do this since you had the indulgence , or the liberty granted to you by the law. vi. that the use which you make of this liberty , is not only lawful , but your duty : and that having your freedom , you ought to make choice of the way of the dissenters , because you conceive it to be better than that of the church , and to be prefer'd before it ; as enjoying purer ordinances ; as affording communion with a better people ; and as most conducing to your edification . this i think is the sum of what has been said in your defence , and whether it may sufficiently clear you from the imputation of schism , is the subject of our present enquiry . i. it hath been said , that notwithstanding , your present separation from us , yet ye are one with us , because we both adhere to the same doctrine : and i know nothing hath been more commonly urged of late in your vindication . so that we may seem to have gain'd this by your late conformity , that we are now treated with softer language than formerly we were . yet the rude assaults which before were so frequently made upon the conformists by the adversaries that call'd them babylonish and antichristian , and thereby expos'd their own malice or folly , did less hurt to the church , than this seeming compliance , which would make communion with it an indifferent thing , and so dissolve its government , as i shall shew hereafter . how far you are at an agreement with us in doctrine , i know not . but if the same be taught in your meetings ; that is , published by many of your party in their printed books , and even in their catechisms , i think it is liable to great exceptions . yet if it were every way pure and apostolical , and the very same with that of the conformists , can this be a reason for your desertion of them ? or may not the same reason bring you back to them ? but i fear it is only to serve a turn , and to be laid aside on other occasions . if you please to consult your teachers , and demand of them , whether you may : not return to us ? since , as 't is thought , your doctrine is the same with ours , doubtless they would press you to remain where you are : they would thunder against schism , as others have done ; and terrifie you with the great evil of separation , notwithstanding it lies at their own door . i am sure the independants , who made so light of schism , when they were drawing congregations out of congregations , did afterwards endeavour to secure to themselves their own proselites . for they declare , a that when a person was admitted into any of their churches , he might not remove from it to another church , without the consent of the former first sought and obtain'd . but if that was deny'd , and yet he would depart , they would not detain him by violence , nor make their church a prison to him . however they would look on him as a heathen and publican : they would condemn him as a breaker of the everlasting covenant , or as one that like annanias and saphira , lyed against the holy ghost . and in the heads of agreement subscrib'd by your ministers of different sects , they assert , a that a visible professor , joyn'd to a particular church , ought to continue stedfastly with the said church , and not forsake the ministry and ordinances without an orderly seeking a recommendation to another church . and say they in another place , b we ought not to admit any one to be a member of our respective congregations , that hath joyn'd himself to another , without endeavours of mutual satisfaction of the congregations concern'd . here they give you some useful hints , which may intimate how requisite it is to review their actions and your own . for this may afford you matter of great humiliation , and be a means of your conviction , when you reflect how you did forsake our churches , without any permission granted by them , or requested of them ; and how your pastors receiv'd you , without giving any satisfaction to those whom ye had deserted . what your teachers will say to this ; i know not ; but it seems they would have you believe , that an agreement with us in faith is sufficient , but an union with them in worship is necessary . you may forsake us without any permission , but not depart from them without their consent . the liberty they allow you in one case , they take away in another , and reject it as a thing not to be endured , when it touches their own constitution ▪ but not to insist farther on the opinions and practices of these men , i shall shew you what st. cyprian and st. chrysostom , thought of the pretence for church-divisions , which is now under consideration : for they speak as home to it as if they had been directed by a prophetick spirit : but the reason is , because the schismaticks in their days excus'd themselves in the same manner as some of you have done . and the same plea being us'd by both , you equally come under the same confutation . st. cyprian speaking of the novatians , says , a it could not help them at all that they acknowledge god the father , the son and holy spirit , as we do : for korah , dathan , and abiram own'd the same god , the only true god ; and as to the law and religion , were on equal terms with moses and aaron ; yet being unmindful of their place , and transgressing their bounds , they challenged to themselves the power of sacrificing ; and then by a stroke from heaven they suffered the punishment due to their unlawful attempts . — and that it may be better understood , what the divine judgment was against such presumption , we find that not only the captains and leaders in wickedness , but also such as were partakers with them in it , were condemn'd to suffer , if they did not separate themselves from the society of those criminals . — by which example it appears , that all must be guilty and liable to punishment , who with a profane rashness joyn themselves with schismaticks , against their bishops and priests . as the holy spirit testifies by the prophet hosea , saying , b their sacrifices shall be as the bread of mourning : all that 〈◊〉 thereof shall be polluted : hereby teaching us , that all who have been defil'd i● sin with their leaders , must be their companions also in the sufferings inflicted on them . st. chrysostome speaks more fully on this subject , and discourses of it to this effect : a a certain holy man said , what seems very bold , and yet he said it ; and it is , that even the blood of martyrdom cannot wash away this sin of schism . for tell me , i pray you , wherefore would you suffer martyrdom ? is it not for the glory of christ ? but if you would lay down your life for christ , wherefore do ye lay waste the church for which christ died ? hear what paul speaks . i am not meet to be call'd an apostle , because i persecuted the church of god. but persecution gives a greater lustre to the church , whereas schism exposes it to shame amongst its enemies . this i speak to such as indifferently yield up themselves to the conduct of those that divide the church — know ye not what korah , dathan , and abiram suffered ? or can ye be ignorant that they also perished that were with them ? wherefore then do you say their faith is the same with ours , and they are orthodox ? for if that be so , why are they not with us ? if their affairs succeed well , ours must be in a bad posture ; and if ours prosper , theirs must be calamitous — and can you imagine , i pray you , it is sufficient to say , that they are orthodox , if the rights of ordination be wanting or destroy'd ? what profit is there of other things , if due care be not taken for this ? we ought to contend for it , as we do for the faith it self . for if it be lawful for any that will , to fill their own hands , as the ancients speak , a or to make themselves priests ; in vain was this altar built , in vain is this full assembly , and this company of sacred ministers is in vain also — if any one make light of these matters , let him look to it — how shall we bear the derision of the vnbelieving greeks ? if they upbraid us with heresies , what will they not speak of these things ? if , say they , these men have the same opinions ; if they have the same mysteries , why does one thus leap into the place of another ? do not ye see , how all the affairs of the christians are fill'd with vain-glory ? how ambition and deceit dwell amongst them ? but take away the multitude from them , and they are nothing . thus far that excellent father , who hath more to the same purpose . what i shall add , will be farther to prove , 1. that it is most absurd to affirm , that you are one with us , being divided from us , as you are . 2. that the pretence , that unity of doctrine is sufficient to make us all one , is inconsistent with church-government , and would be destructive of the church it self . 3. that it is inconsistent with the notion of schism , as express'd in the holy scripture . 4. that it would take away the distinction which the scripture makes between the schismaticks , and those that are approved . 1. it is most absurd to affirm , that you are one with us , being divided from us , as you are . i have proved , that the universal church is a political body ; and that a particular church is so , i think , is generally granted . and then if a company withdraw themselves from it , and shake off all dependance on it , and communion with it , they cannot be of the same body which they deserted ; but being associated together by themselves , they become another . the empire of persia , was one body under darius ; but it was not so , when it was divided into several kingdoms under the successors of alexander . a city is one body , yet if it sends out colonies , which afterwards are formed into cities , living by their own laws , having full jurisdiction in themselves , they are no longer the same with the metropolis from which they a came . and much less can it be said , that some part of the citizens shaking off their obedience to their governours , and advancing others into their places , are united to those from whom they made the revolt . now a church hath this common with a city , and with all corporations , that if some of its members withdraw themselves from it , and make up a separate congregation , according to your model , they are not then of the community which they have deserted . it is evident , that they are of a society which is opposite 〈◊〉 it ; and to say that they are one , when the contrary is so visible to every eye , is to renounce the use of words , and to affront the common sense of mankind . 2. the pretence that the unity 〈◊〉 doctrine is sufficient to make us all 〈◊〉 notwithstanding ye are so divided from us , is inconsistent with church-government ; and being admitted , would be destructive of the church it self . pretences like that , would never be wanting , if they might justifie the seditious , and it is easie to perceive what sad effects they would produce . if such as are mutinous in an army should lay aside their officers , and put into then places , others of their own chusing , they might say in their own vindication , that under their present commanders , they acted according to the same military rules as they did before , and therefore 't is all one , which they obey'd . if in a kingdom , or common-wealth , some of the subjects , upon any discontent , should depose their magistrates , and elect others in their stead out of their own company , they might make the like defence and say , that they had still the same laws as before the change , and lived according to the ancient customs ; only the administration of affairs was put into other hands , which was not material . if in a house some of the children and servants should conspire against the father and master of the family , and take into it another person to be their governour , they might also plead for themselves , that they receiv'd the same direction for business as they had before , and that their work was still the same , and therefore it was all one to whom they paid their submission . but 't is obvious that such an army must be put into miserable confusions , that such a kingdom would be brought to desolation , that such a house cannot stand . and 't is no less manifest , that if the people may forsake their lawful pastors , and at their pleasure heap to themselves other teachers ; if some members of a sound church may make a causeless separation from it , and joyn together in opposition it , this would make all church-government a precarious and useless thing ; it would soon weaken the church , and push it on to destruction . and it will be a vain excuse for men to say , that they are at an agreement with the church in doctrine , when by their divisions they are tearing the church in pieces . 3. the pretence that you are free from the guilt of schism , because you are of the same faith with the conformists , is inconsistent with the notion of schism , as it is express'd in the holy scripture . it is plain from the scripture , and it is granted on all hands , that there was a schism at corinth : but this was not about an article of faith , or matter of doctrine . what was laid to the charge of the dividers here , is , that every one said , i am of paul , or i of apollos , or i of cephas . there is no doubt but all these three did teach the same doctrine , but the people were schismatical , and made use of those great names to give reputation to their several parties . it may seem strange , that some are censur'd for saying . they were of christ : but i take the meaning to be this ; they profess'd themselves to be followers of christ , but it was in opposition to his ministers ; as some may pretend to be for the king , when they affront those that are in authority under him ; or they would be for him as the head of their own faction . but all these are condemned as carnal , and as dividers of christ . and this may let you see , that their offence was great , notwithstanding the plausible things , that on the account of the excellent yeachers to which they laid claim , might be said in their defence . clemens roman●● , a fellow-labourer with st. paul , makes such use of this passage as is very proper for your consideration : for , says he , in an epistle to the corinthians , a take into your hands the epistle of the blessed paul the apostle . what is it that he first wrote to you in the beginning of his gospel . b of a truth he spiritually admonish'd you , that there were then factions among you cancerning himself , and cephas , and apoll●s . but siding , or making a party in that case , was a less sin ; for your inclinations were towards apostles of known 〈◊〉 , and a man approved of them . but now consider who they are that perverted , and diminished the venerable esteem of your brotherly love , which was commended every where . shameful , brethren , very shameful is the report , and unworthy of the christian conversation , that the most firm and ancient church of corinth , for the sake of one or two persons , should be seditions against their priests . and the fame of this is 〈…〉 come amongst us , but amongst those that are otherwise affected . so that because of your madness the lord's name is blasphemed , and great danger is created to your selves . 4. the pretence that you are free from the guilt of schism , because you are of the same faith with the con●●●mists , takes away the distinction of the schismatick from the approved ; as will appear by considering the case of both , as it is represented in the holy scripture . 1. it is evident from scripture , that the approved , who are the beloved of god , add this to the practice of other duties , that they live in conformity to the church , and are of a regular behaviour in it . there must be heresies amongst you , says the apostle , that they which are approved may be made manifest among you . that is , as i noted before , as long as mens minds are deprav'd there will be divisions , as there were at corinth , about matters of discipline ; and the almighty permits this for the tryal of his servants , that by the avoiding those things their sincerity may be known ; that having this mark of distinction upon them , it might appear to all with whom they were conversant , that they were of the number of the faithful . 2. from hence it is plain , that the dividers and disturbers of the church , however they agree with it in doctrine , are not to be reckon'd amongst the approved : but it will yet be plainer , if they proceed to a separation from those that are so . these words of st. john , which i also cited before , are remarkable and pertinent to our purpose : they went out from us , says he , but they were not of us : for if they had been of us , they would no doubt have continued with us : but they went out , that they might be made manifest , that they were not all of us . but had they been of the opinion of your advocates , they might have reply'd : our desertion can never make it manifest that we were not of you . indeed we went out from you , and did forsake your assemblies ; but notwithstanding this , we may be all one with you . but we do not find that they had the confidence to make such an apology . ii. it has been said , that in the apostles days there were independent and separate churches planted in the same city . and for this the testimony of a very learned conformist a has been cited by some , who at other times express little regard for it . and it is true , he tells us , that as st. peter was the apostle of the circumcision , and st. paul of the gentiles , so whensoever these two great apostles came to the same city , the one constantly applied himself to the jews , received disciples of such , form'd them into a church , left them , when he departed that region , to be govern'd by some bishop of his own assignation ; and the other in like manner did the same to the gentiles . to prove this he urges from ancient writers , that the church of antioch was founded and instructed by st. peter and st. paul , and consequently that the jewish part of it was converted and rul'd by one , and the gentile by the other : that the decrees of the council at jerusalem were peculiarly sent , and inscrib'd , to the brethren at antioch , &c. — those of the gentiles , that is separately from the jewish church in that city , &c. that it appears from the apostolical constitutions that euodius , and ignatius , at the same time sate bishops of antioch ; the one succeeding st. peter , the other st. paul , one in the jewish , the other in the gentile congregation . that the separation continued till both parties were joyn'd , and united together under ignatius : that from hence it is , that by origen and eusebius , he is called the second , and by st. jerome the third bishop of antioch ; and yet he is as truly said by athanasius , to be constituted bishop after the apostles : that at rome the two apostles met again , and each of them there erected and managed a church , st. peter of the jews , and st. paul of the gentiles : that as linus and clemens were deacons , the one of st. paul , and the other of st. peter ; so both afterwards succeeded them in the episcopal chair , linus being constituted bishop of the gentiles , clemens the jewish christians there : and that from hence unquestionably grows that variety and difference observ'd amongst writers , some making st. peter , others st. paul , the founder of that church , but others both of them : some making clemens , others linus , the first bishop after the apostles ; both affirmers speaking the truth , with this scholion to interpret them : linus was the first bishop of the gentile christians after st. paul ; clemens the first of the jewish after st. peter . this is the sum of the most material things that he has said on this subject ; but it seems all too infirm to support his opinion ; which yet out of the respect that is due to the authority of so great a man , i shall not reject without giving the reasons of my dissent from him . and they are these that follow . i. however the work of the apostles was so distributed by consent that the care of the jews was especially committed to st. peter , and that of the gentiles to st. paul ; yet they were not limited to either . for , 1. st. peter being sent for by cornelius a gentile , instructed him and those that were come together at his house , in the christian faith ; and when they had received it , he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the lord : and after this he declar'd in the council of jerusalem , that god had chosen him for this purpose , that the gentiles , by his mouth , should hear the gospel , and believe . 2. st. paul preach'd in the synagogues of the jews at salamis and antioch : and at corinth he reason'd in the synagogue every sabbath , and persuaded both jews and greeks . at rome also he expounded and testified to the jews , the kingdom of god , persuading them out of the law of moses , and out of the prophets , from morning till nighs , and some believed the things that were spoken , tho' some believed not . now as it cannot be thought that when he had converted jews and gentiles together , he divided them into separate congregations , so neither is it probable that when st. peter and he were in the same city , matters were so nicely managed between them , that the one pickt out the jews , as belonging to his province , and gather'd them into a church by themselves , and that the other did the like for the gentiles . no such thing , i am sure can be gather'd from the scripture . ii. both these apostles might be founders of the church of antioch , as also of that of rome , and yet neither of these churches be divided into separate societies . rome it self had two founders , and yet it was but one city . and manifest it is by many other examples , that different persons acting as one , may constitute a corporation , either ecclesiastical or civil , which is united in all its parts . iii. the inscription of the epistle to the brethren of the gentiles that were at antioch , &c. does only suppose them to have been chiefly concern'd in the contents of it , and not that they were of a church distinct from the jewish christians . it may rather seem , if they had been so , that the zealots who came from judea , would not have press'd them to be circumcis'd after the manner of moses , but left them to enjoy their own way , as a separate body . but the council having decided the matter in debate between them , remov'd from both sides all pretences of division . iv. the writer of the apostolick constitutions no where affirms , that euodius and ignatins sate at the same time bishops of antioch . he only introduces peter , saying , that one of them was ordain'd by him , and the other by a paul , which might be afterwards at a great distance of time . malata informs b us , that after the death of euodius , peter being then at antioch , ignatius receiv'd the episcopal dignity ; and if this be so , it may help to put an end to the dispute about the order in which he was advanced to that office. v. that linus and clemens were at the same time bishops of rome , hath no better ground than the testimony of ruffinus , which signifies but little when oppos'd , as it is in this case , by the whole stream of antiquity . there are indeed differences amongst the fathers concerning the line of succession in that see ; but they are accounted for by an excellent a hand : and if they were not , nor would admit of any reconciliation , they would be too weak a foundation for the establishment of separate churches under their proper pastors b in the same city . yet do i not reject this opinion , merely because it hath no good foundation : i shall produce such arguments against it , as being duly consider'd may help to determine this controversie . 1. my first argument is taken from the design of christ ; for that was , to unite both jews and gentiles in one body , and to make of the two , one new man. and accordingly , he made of both one people ; prescrib'd to them the same law , and confer'd on them equal priviledges . it is not therefore to be imagin'd , that the jewish converts were to be drawn out from amongst the believers of the gentiles , and gather'd into churches apart by themselves ; churches that excluded all christians from their communion , who submitted not to the law of moses . for this had been to divide those whom our lord had made one , and to revive the enmity which he had slain : it had been to treat those as forreigners , whom he would have to be fellow-citizens , and to expel them as aliens , who are his domesticks , and of the houshold of faith : it had been to cast those out as ismaelites , whom he had call'd to be heirs of promise , and to rebuild the wall of partition , which he had broken down . 2. according to the mind of christ , st. paul labour'd to restore peace and conformity between the judaizers and other christians , that they might live together as members , one of another . and to this purpose , when some believed that they might eat all things , and others being weak did eat herbs ; he shews that this difference should be no cause of a breach of communion amongst them . for , says he to the strong , who were apt to despise others , him that is weak in faith receive to you , rom. 14. 1. that is , notwithstanding the scruples of such a person about meats and drinks , and other things of that nature , admit him into the congregation as a brother . he is not fit indeed to hear doubtful disputations , or to be engaged in them , but he ought to joyn with you in the publick worship . the apostle himself leads us to this interpretation in the following chapter , where having put up his request for those that dissented about the mosaical rites , that they might with one mind , and one mouth , glorifie god , even the father of our lord jesus christ ; he presently addresses his discourse to them , and says , wherefore receive ye one another ? for what end was it that they must receive one another ? he himself has given a sufficient intimation of it . it was that they might glorifie god with one mind , and with one mouth . the thing then requir'd of them was , that both the weak and strong , both the jewish and gentile converts , should meet together in the same assemblies , and unanimously joyn in the same prayers and praises , as if they had been animated by one soul. 3. however the apostle us'd great tenderness towards the dissenting parties , whether they understood their christian liberty , and did eat things forbidden by the mosaical law , or whether they did not : yet when the judaizers withdrew themselves from the communion of those that would not come up to their rigours , and labour'd to seduce as many as they could into the way of separation ; he then treated them in another style . he represented them as persons that corrupted the gospel , and pronounced an anathema against them . speaking of them to the philippians , he says , beware of those dogs ; beware of evil-workers ; beware of the concision ; that is , of those that cut the church in pieces . and to the romans he says , i beseech you brethren , mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learn'd , and avoid them . so far was this apostle from approving or allowing of their separate congregations . 4. we may gain farther light into this matter , and what i have said of it , may be confirm'd from a remarkable transaction , which the same apostle relates in these words ; when peter , says he was come to antioch , i withstood him to the face , because he was to be blam'd : for before certain came from james , he did ea● with the gentiles ; but when they were come , he withdrew , and separated himself , fearing them which were of the circumcision . and the other jews dissembled likewise with him ; insomuch that barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation . but when i saw that they walked not uprightly , according to the truth of the gospel , i said unto peter before them all ; if thou , being a jew , livest after the manner of the gentiles , and not as do the jews , why compellest thou the gentiles to live as do the jews ? from hence it is plain . 1. that peter liv'd at antioch after the manner of the believing gentiles ; using the same christian liberty as they did ; and not withdrawing himself from them , before the judaizers came thither from jerusalem . 2. when he struck in with the judaizers , it is not to be imagin'd , that they had alter'd his judgment , or that he had received any new illumination to direct him ; but the change he shew'd , proceeded from his fear ; a fear , as we may well suppose , that if he yielded not to those obstinate men , they would renounce the christian faith. 3. the jewish converts at antioch , were not of a distinct church by themselves , separate from the gentiles . certainly they were not so before the coming of the zealots , with whom they comply'd , not out of conscience , but dissimulation . 4. with their dissimulation barnabas was carried away ; and this intimates , that his concurrence with the dividers , was a new thing to him , or a departure from his former practice . upon the whole , he and the rest , whom he follow'd in this action , may seem to have had a good intention , which was not to provoke those of the circumcision ; but to do what they were able to preserve them from apostacy . yet in their conduct there was more of the policy of the world , than of true christian wisdom and sincerity . wherefore st. paul , seeing that they walked not uprightly , according to the truth of the gospel , withstood peter to the face , because he was to be blam'd , and reprov'd him before all , that they might see their error , who had been drawn into it by his example . and if paul was so much against separation , when st. peter himself was at the head of it , and when barnabas , an apostle also , together with the multitude , was engaged in it ; if he oppos'd it when it came with so strong a torrent , doubtless he resisted it with like courage wherever he met it , in any part of the world. 5. the jewish and gentile christians , together at antioch , are stiled a church , and so are they that resided at rome . but to call them so , if in the same city they had been divided into several independent congregations , is not agreeable to the language of that age. nor could they with any propriety of speech be mention'd as one society , or body , if they were separate , and had no communion with one another . 6. in the time when this division is suppos'd to have been between the jewish and gentile converts , single persons successively govern'd the church of a antioch ; and the like may be said of that of rome ; as the fathers inform b us , who liv'd near that age. and it is well known , that c cyprian , d cornelim , and others did much insist upon this that of one church , or di●●ese , there could be but one bishop ; and we need not doubt but the novatians , against whom they argued , would have reply'd , that according to apostolical institution , the christians living in one city , might have several bishops over them , had this been then believ'd . but what was the sense of this matter on both sides , may be gathered from the roman confessors , who had been for both , but repenting of the schism , profess'd that they could not charge themselves with the ignorance of this , e that as there is one god , one christ , one holy spirit , so there ought , to be but one bishop of a catholick church . iii. it hath been said , that jesus christ hath declar'd , that when two or three are gathered together in his name , he is in the midst of them ; and that you assemble in this manner , and are therefore assur'd of his favourable presence . but to this i need return no other answer , but what was given by st. cyprian to the novatians a who objected the same thing . these corrupters of the gospel , and false interpreters , says cyprian , only lay held on the end of a discourse , and omit what went before . part they remember , and part they craftily conceal . as they are cut off from the church , so they would cut in pieces a passage of scripture . they forget , that when our lord would persuade his own disciples to vnanimity and peace ; he said to them , if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask , it shall be done for them of my father which is in heaven — and this he spake concerning his church ; and to those that are in the church he says , that if they are of one heart , if according to his command and admonition , but two or three of them are gathered together , and pray unanimously , they may obtain what they ask of the divine majesty . where two or three , says he , are gathered together in my name , i am with theme : that is , with the sincere and peaceable , with those that fear god , and keep his precepts — so that he that founded and made the church , doth not divide men from it ; but upbraiding the perfid●●us with their discord , and commending peace to the faithful , he shews that he is rather with two or three that pray in concerd , than with the many that are at strife — but what peace do they promise themselves , who are enemies of the brethren ? what sacrifices do they believe , they offer , when they contend with the priests ? can they imagine that christ is with them , when they are assembled out of his church ? no , tho' such men were slain confessing his name , the blemish of schism would not be wash'd off with their blood. iv. it hath been said , that paul rejoyced that christ was preach'd , even by those men who did it out of envy and strife , and if the case of your teachers were as bad as this , as long as they preach christ , you have no reason to be solicitous about their call , nor we to be offended at their work. but to this i reply ; 1. that it does not appear that they who preach'd christ out of envy and strife , did take on them the work of the ministry without a call to that office . and if they were lawfully admitted into it , it only proves that ill men may be so , and yet be useful to others ; but not that any may usurp the sacred function ; and how far this concerns your teachers and their followers , i have shew'd before . 2. neither doth it appear that they preach'd christ to any other than the infidels ; and this can never justifie your pastors for gathering disciples out of sound churches ; or your selves for breaking the bond of peace , in compliance with them . it is one thing to add members to a church , taken out of the unbelieving world , and for members to withdraw themselves from it , and joyn together in an opposite society . 3. what the apostle rejoyced at was the good that his envyers did , beside their intention : the benefit that did spring from the evil they design'd , and not the evil that set them on work. so that notwithstanding this example , envy and strife are as hateful as ever , and so are church-divisions , and all things else condemn'd in the gospel . 4. what they acted out of envy and strife , did no hurt to any but themselves . 't is true , they were guilty of great inhumanity and cruelty towards st. paul , yet their malice had no ill effect on him , but rested on their own heads . how it was that they suppos'd that they should add affliction to his bonds , is not so clear , but that it hath given occasion to several conjectures . but to me it seems most probable that they emulated the glory which he had acquir'd by many conversions ; and judging of him by themselves , they imagin'd , it would be a grievous thing to him to hear , that they shar'd with him in that honour , the faith being prop●●gated by their diligence . whereas i● was great satisfaction to him , that when he was under confinement , they carried on the work in which he himself should have been employ'd , had he been at liberty . indeed their manner of doing it did exercise his patience and self denial , yet even that was for his advantage ; and he was assur'd that their preaching would turn to his salvation . and as it was beneficial to him , so it was also to the church , as being a means of gaining proselytes , and both to jews and gentiles , as an instrument of their conversion . but on the contrary , church-divisions are prejudicial to all sorts of persons ; to the pastors of the church , and to the flock : to those that are within the church , and to those that are without . this i might fully prove , but i refer it to a more proper place , and shall only here set down the words of the lord chancellor bacon , who says in his essays , a that heresies and schisms are of all others the greatest scandals ; yea , more than corruption of manners . for as in the natural body , wound , or solution of continuity , is 〈◊〉 than a corrupt humour , so in the spiritual . so that nothing doth so much keep me●● out of the church , and drive men out of the church , as breach of vnity . v. it hath been said , that you are only return'd to those whom you had forsaken before ; and that you might do this , since you had the indulgence , or the liberty granted to you by the law. but if your separation was sinful before you conform'd , your return to it must be so too : for the law hath not alter'd the case , nor done any thing that can make it innocent . 1. we are therefore to enquire in the first place , whether your separation before you conform'd , was not sinful ; and this may easily be resolv'd , for it is clear from what went before , that it was causeless , and consequently schismatical . perhaps it may be objected , that many of you had never been members of the church of england , and therefore could not be deserters of it . but to this i reply , that if you only joyn'd with the society that made the revolt from it , you were partakers in the offence . they that went before you were as a corrupt fountain , and you 〈◊〉 the streams that issued from it ; and the fame malignant quality hath tainted both . the conformists in the reign of queen elizabeth , might say of the brownists , or your first separatists , as st. cyprian a did of the novatians , we departed not from them , but they departed from us . and to you that by education were brought into the community of those that divided the church , we may say as optatas did to the donatists , a your ancestors committed that crime , and you labour to walk in their wicked steps ; that what your predecessors had done in the matter of schism , you may appear long since to have acted , and still to act . they in their days did break the peace , and you do now banish vnity . to your parents and your selves these words may fitly be applied , if the blind lead the blind , they both fell into the ditch . when manasses , the brother of jaddus ; withdrew , himself from jerusalem , and officiated as high-priest in the temple as garizin , which was built for him by sanba●et ; both he and they of his own nation that concur'd with him , acted what was highly criminal . but the matter did not ●●st here ; for their posterity grievously offended in keeping up the defection which their predecessors had begun ; and their cause was condemn'd upon a fair tryal before ptolemaeus b philometer . and thus not only they that are first in a schism , but their followers , and such as come into it in succeeding times , contract the guilt of it . the new members that are added to the former schismaticks , are , together with them , of one body ; as they that from time to time are added to the church , are of another . one thing on which the dispute between the advocates for the temple at jerusalem , and for that at garizin , did mainly turn , was the question , on which side was the ancient succession of priests ? but this was easily determin'd for the former . and now if the whole issue of the controversiae between the conformists and dissenters were put upon this ; whether of them have the best title to a succession of lawful pastors , it would not be difficult to decide it : for you grant , i suppose , and it is otherwise evident , that such a succession is continued with us : but it appears from what has been said , that in your way of separation , you neither had , nor can have any such thing . indeed many of the separatists had episeopal ordination , but some of them renounced it ; and , as in mockery , ordain'd one another : others made no such abdication as the former ; yet withdrawing themselves from their bishops , they exercis'd their office in such a manner as is directly against their own solemn promise , and sacramental engagement . but none of them had power to constitute other presbyters , or in the language of a epiphanius , to give fathers to the church . as for the rest of your teachers , they are meer laymen , and act under a false character in matters of the highest importance to the souls of men. so that you could be followers of none of the dissenting guides , without schism , and a breach of obedience where it was due ; but with some of them you could not communicate without bearing a part in their impostures . 2. if your former separation was sinful , your return to it must be sinful also . it must be so in a higher degree , because a relapse into sin after reformation , is a greater offence than the first commission of it . it had been better therefore that you had not known the way of peace , than after you had experience of it , to forsake it : better that you had not come into the unity of the church , than to break it again . you are now become more inexcusable than you were before , and thus far your latter end is worse than your beginning . 3. if your separation was otherwise sinful , the law hath not alter'd 〈◊〉 case , or done any thing that can mak●● it innocent . i need say nothing of the toleration which was granted to you by the dispensing power , and drew you into the snare : for i suppose you ground your present liberty on the act of parliament . but if you 〈◊〉 not within the intent of that act , it leaves you where it found you ; and can a●ford nothing for your justification the act it self will best satisfie you of this , and upon perusal of it you will find , that it was only design'd to give ease to tender consciences ; but yours are not of that number . indeed we cannot penetrate into your hearts , but charity obliges us to believe , that you did not come to our churches with doubts and fears upon you , that your conformity was unlawful , but were generally well assur'd , that it was consistent with your duty , and agreeable to the holy scriptures . but this is the very thing which cuts you off from the indulgence which you claim by the law ; that being design'd only for per●●ns of another character . but what hath the law done for the scrupulous ? hath it approv'd their several ways , or set them all in the right ▪ that cannot be ; for they are inconsistent and contradict one another . it only tolerates them ; and we may tolerate pain and sickness and other evils , from which we have a great aversion . but they remain evils still ; and so must church-divisions under any dispensation whatsoever . the law says this for the scrupulous , that upon the conditions to be performed by them , they shall not be liable to any pains , penalties , or forfeitures laid on them by some former acts ; nor shall they be prosecuted in any ecclesiastical court for their nonconforming to the church of england . but this can never justifie their nonconformity : for if the punishments against profaning the lord's day , and common swearing , and other things of that nature , were taken off , they would still be criminal as they were before ; and the like may be said of schism . as long as it is condemn'd in scripture , no humane allowance or permission ; can make it lawful . if heresie and schism were enjoyn'd by a law , which is more than an allowance or toleration of them , they would not be freed from their malignity , or cease to be sinful . but to the imposers of things so contrary to divine revelation and institution , we should have reason to say , whether it be right in the sight of god to hearken unto you more than unto god , judge ye . i am far from derogating from the authority of secular princes , but i am sure i do them no wrong in asserting , that they cannot make schism to be ecclesiastical vnion , or vnion to be schism , or either of them to be a thing indifferent . they cannot make falshood to be truth , or truth falshood , but each of these must remain the same that it was , be their edicts for it , or against it . they may not call evil good , and good evil : they may not put darkness for light , and light for darkness . vi. it hath been said , that the use which you make of the liberty which is now granted , is not only lawful , but your duty 〈◊〉 : and that having your freedom , you ought to make choice of the way of the dissenters , because you conceive it to be better than that of the church , and to be prefer'd before it . but the foundation of this is already remov'd , for i have prov'd that the law hath granted you no such immunities as you imagine ; and notwithstanding you are now possess'd of them , yet is your separation sinful , as it was before . it ought not therefore to be matter of your choice upon the prospect of any advantages whatsoever . we ought indeed to desire and seek after the most excellent things , but we must do it in a suitable way . what we are infinitely to value above other things , is the favour of god : but we may not speak wickedly for god , nor talk deceitfully for him . we may not do evil that good may come . nor may any real good be expected from evil , which can bring forth no such fruit. in such cases the end cannot sanctifie the means , but the means would pollute the whole action , and not only frustrate our hopes , but bring on us a just condemnation . i come now to the reasons mention'd before , which some have given for preferring the way of the separation , before that of the church . they tell us , i. that you enjoy it in purer ordinances . ii. that is affords you communion with a better people . iii. that it most conduces to your edification . all which pretences are cut off by the sinfulness of the separation it self , to which those priviledges are ascrib'd , and therefore i might dismiss them without farther consideration . but so much is built upon them , that i thought fit to bring them under a distinct examination . i. it hath been said , that in the way of separation you enjoy purer ordinances : ordinances that are freer from ceremony , and the addition of things not commanded ; that set you at a greater distance from popery , and are therefore the more to be esteem'd . but the weakness of this way of arguing , will appear ; if you reflect on the absurdities which they fall into , who would exclude from religion all things not commanded , and make the greatest distance from the church of rome , the standard of the best reformation . these men tell us , a that the churches built before the reformation , ought to be level'd with the ground , as monuments of idolatry : that they can never be purged till they are laid in heaps , as their younger sisters the abbacies were : that they are idol-temples , nay idols themselves ; execrable things to be demolish'd , or avoided : unclean things not to be touch'd : the mark of the beast not to be receiv'd : that the bells are to be broken as popish reliques , and to be detested as abominable idols which the law of god devotes to destruction : that catechisms were to be rejected as apocryphal things ; and that psalms in meter were to be rank'd with pleasant ballads , and that being song out of a book , either in verse or prose , they are idolatry : that books and writings are of the nature of pictures and images , and that therefore the holy scriptures are not to be retain'd before the eyes in the time of spiritual worship : that book-prayer in that worship is man's invention , and a breach of the second commandment : and that prayer-books , and stinted prayers are indeed idols . th●● to look on the book in the time of singing and preaching is idolatrous ; and that if our litta●● were the best that ever was devis'd by mortal man , yet being brought into the church , yea , even into a private house , and read out of a book , it would be as an abominable sacrifice in the sight of god , and even as a dead dog : that they that use the lord's prayer at the close of their own , are gross idolaters ; and that they that uncover their heads at the lord's supper , are idolaters also , and joyn their own posts and thresholds with the lord's : and lastly , that idolaters are to be put to death according to the judicial 〈◊〉 of moses ; which , they say , still binds all the nations of the world : so that the greatest potentates on earth cannot dispense with it ; but ought to execute the will of god according to his word . these are some of the assertions of the more rigid separatists , which i have not produc'd with an intent to reproach you , who , i believe , abhot them ; but only to let you see , that as those sectaries were deluded by this false principle , that whatsoever in the worship of god is not commanded by himself , especially if it has been abus'd by the pipists , is sinful and execrable ; so you are in danger of being led into grievous mistakes , if you entertain a perswasion , that that is the purest church , or society , which hath the lowest ceremonies not enjoyn'd in scripture . this may easily be gather'd from the influences already mention'd ; but i leave them to your own application . 't is true , and it is generally acknowledg'd by the conformists , that nothing is to be receiv'd as an article of faith , that is not reveal'd in scripture : nor is any thing to be admitted as an essential part of divine worship , that is not the subject of a divine precept : but external rites and circumstances of worship , are of another nature , and being not forbidden of god expresly , or by consequence , are not sinful : for where there is no law , there is no transgression . but about this , i suppose , we are agreed : and if you thought our ceremonies , which are innocent in themselves , so great a burthen for their number , that to ease your seves of it , you must desert our communion , as soon as you had opportunity , i intreat you to consider , how very few were required of you as private men , and how impossible it would be to preserve peace and order in the church , if , for such things , it may be divided and all be put into confusion . in the primitive church as many ceremonies were used , as now are required by the church of england ; and if they are now sufficient to excuse your desertion , they would have justified a separation from the best christians in the purest ages . even in the apostles days several things were appointed and practis'd , and for some time were not to be neglected or omitted , which yet were only temporary institutions , and not design'd to be of perpetual obligation . such were the feasts of charity , and the kiss of peace ; as also the womans veil , by which her head and face were cover'd in sign of her subjection . and if the church had power to lay aside such rites , so it hath power also to appoint others of the like nature , and is obliged to do so upon emergent occasions , as christian prudence may direct . particular ceremonies are liable to such alterations , that when they have been expressive of respect in one age or country , they become instances of the contrary in another : but there are rules about them that are constant and certain in all times and places . 1. it is certain that the publick worship of god ought to be celebrated with such ceremonies as are suitable to the dignity and solemnity of the work , and agreeable to the general directions of the holy scripture . 2. according to the holy scripture the ceremonies that are us'd in the church , ought to be expressive of some duty . so were they that i produced from scripture ; such were also the smiting on the breast , the lifting up the hands in prayer , kneeling on the same occasion , and the putting on some new garment at the time of baptism : all which things are recommended or alluded to as things approved in scripture . and one of these was a visible sign of contrition and indignation against sin ; another , of the elevation of the mind to heaven ; the third , of humiliation ; the fourth of putting on christ , or the new man. this may shew , how weak the objection is against our rites , that they are symbolical ; for if they were otherwise ; they would be disagreeble to the holy scripture ; and signifying nothing , they would be good for nothing , but were fit to be rejected as useless and impertinent . 3. the holy scripture directs us in general to do all things decently and in order ; to distinguish between our own houses and the churches of god : to glorifie him with our bodies , as well as our spirits ; and particularly it requires us to worship , and fall down , and kneel before the lord our maker . 4. that external rites be significant and decent , there ought to be some conformity between them and the end for which they were appointed . yet for those that use them it is not always necessary to know the reasonableness of their instituion . they may take an oath safely by kissing the book , who know nothing of the original of that ceremony , nor are satisfied of the fitness of it . whatsoever it had at first , custome hath now impress'd a fitness on it ; and it signifies a solemn appeal to god the searcher of hearts , as much as words could do , and is by the law prefer'd before them . 5. the significancy of ceremonies , and the measures of decency are to be taken from custome , which gives rules not only for speaking , but also for actions , habits , and gestures . thus as by custome the putting off the hat , bowing and kneeling are marks of reverence amongst men , so they are in our addresses to god. indeed the uncovering of the head was formerly a badge of authority . but custome hath quite alter'd that signification , and yet hath made it fit to be retain'd for another , and i think you have no exception against our using of it at present , as a sign of our veneration and subjection to the almighty . 6. the more early that a ceremony was us'd , and the longer it hath remain'd ; the more universally it hath been receiv'd and approv'd , especially by good men , and the greater good it is expressive of , the fitter it is for continuance . and this may be said for the sign of the cross , which hath been much oppos'd by the separatists , that in the next age after the apostles , if not in their days , it was every where in use amongst the christians , who testified by it to the world , that they were not asham'd of the cross of christ , but rather gloried in it , and were ready to suffer for it . so that it was a compendious confession of their faith , or a visible creed in which they declar'd to the eye the same truth , and their resolution to adhere to it , that by words they profess'd to the ear. and if this last way ought to be approved , the other may not be condemn'd ; nor was it by any but the infidels , or open enemies of the gospel . from the primitive church it was transmitted down to our own , and being freed by our reformers from the abuses which superstition had added to it by the way , it is prescrib'd in our liturgy , in the office of baptism , as signifying the dedication of the baptized to him that died on the cross for them . we have good reason therefore not to lay aside a ceremony that is come to us thus recommended , and is so suitable to the end for which it was employ'd . as for those that cast it out as an idol , they must excuse us , that we cannot comply with them in reproaching , as idolaters , innumerable saints and martyrs that are now with god : and that being no enemies to the cross of christ , we do not abhor the sign of it . 7. it follows from what went before , that when things indifferent are against custome , they are also against decency , and to be avoided . for a man to wear long hair , had no moral evil in it , nor had the scripture decided any thing about it , yet the apostle condemn'd it as shameful , and against the dictate of nature . not as if it was forbidden by any law of nature , strictly so call'd ; but the meaning is , it was against custome , which is a law in such cases . it is no small matter then to oppose the customs that have been universally receiv'd , and long continued in the churches , as the separatists have done , whilst they have been labouring to advance their own discipline ; which , till of late , was never heard of in any part of the world. charity would teach them not to behave themselves so unseemly : but if they will not learn that lesson , nor cease to be contentious , but obtrude on us their own novelties , it may be sufficient for us to say , that we have no such customs , neither the churches of god. 8. it also follows from what was said before , that things which , according to custome , are signs of irreverence amongst men , are marks of prophaneness and contempt when they are us'd towards the almighty . if ye offer the blind for sacrifice , is it not evil ? and if ye offer the lame and sick , is it not evil ? offer it now to thy governour , will he be pleased with thee , or accept thy person ? saith the lord amighty , mal. 1. 8. and this may afford us very useful advice ; for from hence it is clear , that if we rudely rush into his presence without any thing of ceremony ; if we refuse him all outward respect when he speaks to us in the assemblies of his people , and will not bow the knee when we put up our prayers to him , but call on him in the same posture as we would talk to our servants , we affront him in such a behaviour as we would not offer to our governour , and may justly fear that he will punish our insolence and presumption . if you lay these things together , you may find , that what you call the purity of your ordinances , is their defect : that you have acted against the known rules of christianity , in rejecting the laudable customs of antiquity , and of the church which you have deserted ; and that the way which you have forsaken , expressing much more reverence to the almighty than that in which ye are now engaged , is , for that reason , to be prefer'd before it . as for outward bodily worship , it is particularly forbidden by the directory at one time , and never so much as recommended at any time , a nor do i find that it is as much as permitted in any part of the publick service . i know not whether kneeling be at all used in your meetings ; but i have reason to think , it is not much . and yet you cannot be ignorant , that it is a fit gesture for prayer , and i suppose in your family-prayers you do not reject it . but if this be so , it may seem strange , that you should think the house of your publick worship the only place wherein you would shew irreverence to the divine majesty . i need not here treat of all the particulars in debate between us ; but one thing i will not omit , because it demonstrates to the separatists the weakness of their exceptions against the ceremonies of the church , and shews the irreverence that is us'd in your meetings , in a thing of very great moment . what i mean is the lord's supper , which in your way is appointed to be received sitting . but is there any precept for this in scripture ? or if none can be found , is it not against the second commandment ? is it not an idol ? that is the way of reasoning us'd by many dissenters , and this instance may shew them the folly of it . to make up this matter , mr. cotton a gives us a reason for sitting at the sacrament ; which is , that it is of symbolical use to teach the church their majority over their ministers , who if they be their true pastors , are over them in the lord. he also tells us , that christ administred it to his disciples sitting ; but the learned amongst you will inform you , that this is a mistake . others contend that a table-gesture is to be us'd , but neither hath this any ground in scripture . it is certain the matter is not decided there ; and if it were not determin'd by our superiours , the best way would be to enquire which gesture would be most expedient for so great a solemnity . now your table-gesture being the same that you use at home in your own houses , seems very unfit for a religious feast , at which we are entertain'd by the almighty king , the lord of men and angels . it argues a great piece of familiarity with him , which he hath no where approv'd . he hath no where requir'd you to sit down , but ye will do it without his call. and if this seems decent and respectful , offer the like to your governour : will he be pleased with it , or accept your persons ? the publican , that would not so much as lift up their eyes to heaven , but smote upon their breast , did that which was suitable to his condition : but your behaviour at the sacrament , is very different ; for rejecting the several gestures which are expressive of reverehce , you only admit of that which hath nothing in it of respect ; and which you would not presume to use before a governour , without his express command , or invitation . as for the gesture of kneeling , i think it is very proper for this occasion . it is fit that we should be then in a posture of praying , when we joyn with the minister in the petition , that the body and blood of christ , may preserve our bodies and souls unto eternal life . and since christ is to be worshipped , surely it is very fit that we pay him our adoration , when he comes to consign over to us , the inestimable benefits of his cross and passion . and now i leave you to judge , with which of us this ordinance is celebrated with greater reverence , or in a way more suitable to the dignity of so venerable a mystery ? or which of us does most appear to discern the lord's body ? ii. it hath been said , that the way of the separation affords you communion with a better people than those which you have deserted . and not to enquire how justly this comparison is made partial , as it appears , but to make as short work as may be , i think we may agree in this ; that the conforming churches consist of a mixture of good and bad men. and since the last are not excluded , the question is , whether this justifies your separation ? for if that be sinful , the pretence of your joyning with a better people , must fall to the ground . and so i might dismiss this debate , having said enough for the decision of it before . yet to set the present case in a clearer light , i shall further shew , 1. that for private persons to withdraw themselves from a church , because ill men are tolerated in it , and that they may form a purer congregation , consisting only of visible saints , as they call them , is not according to scripture , but directly against it . 2. if it were admitted , it would be attended with great evils . 1. it is not according to scripture , which indeed gives us an account of the corruptions , and want of discipline in many churches , yet says not a word to justifie a separation from them , but much for the condemnation of it ; whatsoever might be pleaded in its defence . to give an instance out of many : in the church at corinth , the incestuous man who had committed a crime that was not so mnch as nam'd among the gentiles , was tolerated ; and they mourned not that he might have been taken away from among them . besides him , there were many others that were guilty of great immoralities ; and the apostle was afraid that he should have cause to bewail them , as not having repented of the vncleanness , fornication and lasciviousness which they had committed . he complains of their going to law before the vnjust : brother with brother , before the vnbelievers . he complains of their irregularities in their assemblies , and disorders in their feasts of love. one , he says , was hungry , and another was drunken . and such were their miscarriages even at their meetings for religious worship , that he declares , their coming together was not for the better , but for the worse . now here was a very sad face of affairs : and what remedy doth the apostle apply on this occasion ? doth he say , that their constitution was dissolv'd , and they were no longer a church ? or doth he say , that the better part should desert the worse , and make up a church by themselves , consisting only of visible saints ? no such matter : he considers them all together as a society gather'd out of the world , and consecrated to god , and addresses his first epistle to them in this style ; to the church of god which is at corinth , to them that are sanctified in christ jesus , called to be saints : and he directs the second in like manner ; supposing them to have a federal holiness as a church , when of inherent piety there was so great a defect among them , and when so many of them were guilty of great enormities . he labours to inform them , and for that purpose he charges them to expel the incestuous man from their communion . he reproves the vicious , and threatens them with ecclesiastical censures . he admonishes the litigious to submit their differences about things pertaining to this life , to the decision of some arbitrator chosen amongst themselves . he commands them to do all things decently , and in order ; and warns them not to come irreverently to the lord's supper , but to examine , or approve themselves , before they did partake of it . all this while , he says not a word that might encourage any of them to forsake the publick assemblies on the account of the scandals that were given . but on the contrary , he requires them all to be compacted , or a knit together . he puts them in mind that they were members of the same community , and that there ought to be no schism in the body . and says he to them , with great tenderness and affection , i beseech you , brethren , by the name of our lord jesus christ , that ye all speak the same thing , and that there be no divisions among you , but that ye be perfectly joyned together in the same mind , and in the same judgment . 2. the pretence of separating from the church , because wicked men are tolerated , being admitted , it would be attended with great evils . what they are , will better appear when i come to treat of the consequence of schism , but the consideration of some that relate to our present case , may not here be omitted . 1. if this pretence were allow'd , it would lay a foundation for perpetual divisions . for then any party professing greater sanctity , how unjustly soever , might withdraw themselves from the church , and say , stand from us , for we are more holier than you . and then others might say the like to the first dividers , and a third sort to the second , and so on , as long as it was possible to make any farther subdivision . an eminent nonconformist a has given us this account of a person , who would reform his bible in such a manner , that he cut out the contents , titles , and every thing else but the text it self , believing them to be humane devices , and consequently idolatrous . and agreeable to this action was the rest of his conversation . for he would come at no man , nor suffer any man to come at him . but having shut up himself and his children in his house , sustenance was brought to them , and put in at some hole , or window ; but he suffered no man to come and minister unto them ; no , not when he and they lay sick , and in great misery . and when , by order , his house was broken open , two of his children were found dead ; and one of them had been so long unburied , that the body was corrupted , and it did annoy the room . this man lived up to his principles , and pursued them as far as they would go . and his example may teach us , that if we think our selves obliged , when the law permits us , to forsake the church , because it admits of a mixt communion , and that we may joyn with a better people , we should soon see the like occasion to desert these also . and then we must seek out other company , and so go on till we are pent up within so narrow a compass that we could move no farther . 2. this pretente being admitted , men professing much religion , when they have little of the sense or power of it , would be encouraged to raise and keep up such disturbances as might serve the designs of their , ambition , or other worldly ends. and whilst the meek and lowly would study to be quiet , and do their own business , the assuming and arrogant would be new-modelling the churches . a mr. baxter , a man of great experience , says , that he never saw one schism made , in which pride conjunct with ignorance , was not the cause ; and that , to his remembrance , he never knew one person forward in a schism , but pride was discernably his disease . pride is so active a principle , that only by it cometh contention . and if it meets with great encouragement , as it does too often , there is no doubt to be made of its readiness to furnish the world with reformers in all societies and governments : reformers , i mean , that would condemn miscarriages abroad , and bestow bitter invectives on them at a distance , but cherish them at home . such reformers were korah and absalom , and many others who , to make themselves heads of faction , or considerable in it , have not spar'd to speak evil of dignities , and to cast reproach on the best of men that stood in their way , whilst in the mean time , with good words , and fair speeches , they have deceiv'd the hearts of the simple . not long after the death of st. paul , there was amongst the corinthians a grievous schism , a wicked and impious sedition , as clemens romanus a calls it : and this was kindled , as he informs us , b by one or two mean persons , who were rash and confident , such as had a high opinion of themselves , and despised others . and the incendiaries that have come after them , have so constantly been of that temper , that to say any thing in their vindication . when their cause will admit of no defence , is to put fire into the hands of those who would burn up the houses of god in the land. 3. this pretence for separation being admitted , it would put men upon a work , for which they are no way fit , which is the judging one another before the time. and in this , the uncharitable , and censorious , the envious , and malicious , would have so great a stroke , that it could not be expected but that they would be forward to condemn others that are better than themselves ; and that they would be most busie in gathering new churches , who were fit to be members of none . you pretend in vain , says st. austin a to the donatists , that before the time of harvest , you fly from the tares , which , you say , are mixt amongst us ; whereas you your selves are the tares : for if you were the good grain , you would bear with that mixture , and not separate your selves from the corn of christ . 4. separation from a church , upon a pretence of joyning with a better people , casts a reproach upon the deserted . and if it be an offence to treat a private person contumeliously , or diminish his just reputation , it must be a greater , when the same is done to a community . you have need therefore to be very sure that you were in the right , when you did forsake the church of england , as unworthy of your communion , and prefer'd before it , the dissenting congregations . it will not be sufficient for you to say , that amongst the conformists many were guilty of great immoralities ; for it would be easie for them to recriminate , and the truth is , there have been and are on both sides , great numbers of men notoriously vicious , but we must leave them to bear their own burthen . offences will come , and such there were in the apostles days , in the churches at corinth and philippi , in the churches of the galatians , and in all the seven churches of asia . yet on that occasion , no allowance was given to any of the faithful to withdraw themselves from the publick assemblies . it is therefore to be suppos'd that you can prove some very hainous thing , not only against particular persons , who profess themselves conformists , but against the conforming churches as such ; some great thing , for which they ought to be forsaken , or you are very injurious to them in your desertion of them : for by this you do what in you lies , to dishonour them ; and to fix a publick disgrace , or infamy upon them , in the eye of the world. it is now your business to exalt the societies with which you are at present in communion , as well as to depress those which you have deserted ; a thing very usual in such cases . but that you may state the account aright , when you are comparing the old churches with the new , as they are call'd , you ought carefully to examine , whether the last be churches in reality , or in name only : whether any of your pastors have right to exercise their office in the separate way ; and whether the far greater part of them are not meer usurpers , that have no just title to the ministry , and the administration of the sacraments . all these are things of great weight ; and what i said before , may help you in your enquiries into them , and convince you , if you please to consider it attentively , that you have been mistaken about them ; and that where you thought your selves safe , you are in great danger . you have seen some of the sad effects of your separation , upon a pretence of joyning with a better people . yet i have the charity to believe , that you expected much good fruit from it : but had you consulted a mr. baxter , he would have instructed you better ; for he says , that to reform the church by dividing it , is no wiser than to cut out the liver , or spleen , or gall , to cleanse them from the filth that doth obstruct them , and hinder them in their office : you may indeed thus cleanse them , but it will be a mortal cure. as he that should divide the kingdom into two kingdoms , dissolveth the old kingdom , or part of it at least , to erect two new ones : so he that would divide the catholick church into two , must thereby destroy it , if he could succeed , or destroy that part which divideth it self from the rest . can a member live that is cut off from the body , or a branch that is separated from the tree ? and to these questions i shall leave you to reply . iii. it hath been said , that the way of the separatists conduces more to your edification ; and that if you would provide what is best for your bodies , you ought more especially to do so for your souls : that you are more edified by the dissenting ministers , than by the conforming clergy , and think it requisite to be hearers of those by whom you profit most . and this , i confess , is popular , and affords a very ready answer , such as it is , to the strongest arguments that can be produced against you . but that you may not be too confident of it , the assembly of divines tell you , a that the gathering of churches out of churches , hath no footsteps in scripture , is contrary to apostolical practice , is the scattering of churches , the daughter of schism , the mother of confusion , but the step-mother to edification . mr. baxter also says , b that divisions among christians do greatly hinder the edification of the members of the church : while they are possess'd of envyings and distast of one another , they lose all the benefit of each others gifts , and of that holy communion which they should have with one another . and they are possess'd with that zeal and wisdom , which james calleth earthly , sensual , and devilish ; which corrupteth all their affections ▪ and turneth their food to the nourishment of their disease , and maheth their very worshipping of god to become the increase of their sin. where divisions and contentions are , the members that should grow up in humility , meekness , self-denial , holiness and love , do grow in pride and perverse disputings , and passionate strivings , and envious wranglings . the spirit of god departeth from them , and an evil spirit of malice and vexation taketh place ; though in their passion they know not what spirit they are of . whereas if they be of one mind , and live in peace , the god of love and peace will be with them . to speak more distinctly to this matter , i shall enquire , i. what is the true notion of edification . ii. what you understand by it , and whether you rightly judge , how it is best promoted . iii. whether according to your sense of it , it be a good rule , that you may , or ought to follow those teachers , by whom you can most be edified . iv. whether this may justifie your present separation . i. i am first to enquire , what is the true notion of edification . and to clear this , it is to be consider'd , that the word which is literally render'd building , is often in the holy scripture applied to spiritual matters ; and being taken in a good sense , as commonly it is , it signifies the advancement of persons in some spiritual good : and to edifie them , is to do that work of charity whereby we become beneficial to their souls . knowledge puffeth , saith the apostle , but charity edifieth , 1 cor. 8. 1. comfort your selves together , and edifie one another , 1 thes . 5. 11. let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth , but that which is good to the use of edifying , that it may minister grace to the hearers , ephes . 4. 29. let us follow after things which make for peace , and things wherewith one may edifie another , rom. 14. 19. let every one please his neighbour for his good to edification , rom. 15. 2. in which places , it is the edifying of our neighbours that is required of us ; and that of our selves is never enjoyn'd under this expression , nor can it well be sought but in conjunction with the publick good . 't is true st. paul tells us , that he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself , 1 cor. 14. 4. but this is mention'd but as a mean use of his gift ; and one that prophefied and instructed others , was for this reason prefer'd before him . for , says the apostle , greater is he that prophesieth , than he that speaketh with tongues , except he interpret , that the church may receive edifying , 1 cor. 14. 5. it is certain that the business of edification duly managed , hath a principal regard to the church . and by how much more any thing is beneficial to that , by so much more it ought to be esteem'd . forasmuch , says the apostle , as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts , seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church , 1 cor. 14. 12. there is no doubt to be made , but the use of this word edification is taken from another metaphor , which signifies the church . for the church being in scripture call'd a house , and the members of it being said to be living stones , the adding to it such materials , and the polishing and perfecting those that are in it , are the edification of it . this house is already built and established upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets , jesus christ himself being the chief corner-stone . but it is not as yet finish'd , nor will it compleatly be so till the end of the world. and we shall be reckon'd amongst the builders , or edifiers of it , if we repair its breaches ; if we enlarge it , or raise it higher , or contribute any thing to its strength , or splendor : that is , if we bring new proselytes into the church , or confirm those that are in it ; if we are instrumental in the conversion of some , or in advancing any in knowledge and piety , in faith and practice . without practice there is no true edification , but all that are duly exercis'd in holiness , are perfected by it , and others are invited and drawn into the church by their example . the churches , says st. luke , had rest throughout all judea , and galilee , and samaria , and were edified , and walking in the fear of the lord , and the comfort of the holy ghost , were multiplied , acts 9. 31. the church , in many respects , may be compar'd to a house , but more especially for the vnity and order of building . but on both these i have treated before ; and what i shall add , will only be farther to explain what is meant by edification , and to remove the mistakes about it . 1. vnity is required in this spiritual house , and all the parts of it ought to be compacted , like those of an artificial building , or a natural body . the more they are so , the better they are prepar'd for edification and improvement in things divine . they are call'd to peace in one body , and being knit together in it , they increase with the increase of god , coloss . 2. 19. as divisions are the cause of weakness and deformity in this body ; so on the contrary , vnion helps to strengthen and adorn it . thus when the schism , which i mention'd before , was broken out amongst the corinthians . the vile , or ignoble , on that occasion , rose up against the honourable ; persons of no reputation against those that were highly esteem'd ; the foolish against the wise , and young men against the aged . for which cause justice and peace were far from them . every one did forsake the fear of god , and in his faith became blind . none of them lived according to the rule of his precepts , or walked worthy of christ . but they all followed their own depraved lusts , having taken up an unjust and impious envy , by which death entred into the world. this is the account that clemens romanus a gives of them : but he also acquaints us , that when they were united , their piety was wonderful , their hospitality magnificent , and their knowledge perfect : that they were all of an humble mind , boasting of nothing ; more willing to be subject than to govern , and to give , rather than receive : that they were content with the portion which god had allotted to them , and carefully attending to his word : that they had hearts enlarged b with mercy , and that before their eyes they had the sufferings of christ : that a profound and advantageous peace being given to them , they had an insatiable desire of doing good , and that then there was upon them all a plentiful effusion of the holy spirit : that being fill'd with holy purposes , they did with chearfulness , and a pious confidence , stretch forth their hands to almighty god , beseeching him to be merciful to them , if unwillingly they sinned against him : that their care was day and night for the whole brotherhood ; that through the mercy of god , and a good conscience , the elect might be saved : that they were sincere and inoffensive , and forgetful of injuries , and that all sedition and all schism was then abominable to them : that they lamented the faults of their neighbours , and esteem'd the wants of others as their own. that they were firm and steady a in doing good , and forward to every good work : that they were adorn'd with a conversation altogether vertuous and venerable , and did all things in the fear of god , whose commandments were written upon the tables of their heart . by this , and many other examples , it appears , that the unity of the christians is highly beneficial to them . and we may add , that it also promotes the edification of the church , by the strong inducement it affords to those that are without , to embrace the christian faith , and become members of the same community . they will see , says mr. b baxter , that the design and doctrine of christianity , is good and excellent , beseeming god , and desirable to man , when they see it does produce such good effects , as the love , and vnity , and concord of manknd . and it is an exceeding great and powerful help to the conversion of the world in this respect , because it is a thing so conspicuous in their sight , and so intelligible to them , and so approved by them . they are little wrought on by the doctrine of christ alone , because it is visible , or audible but to few , and understood by fewer , and containeth many things which nature doth distaste . but the holy concord of believers , is a thing that they are more able to discern and judge of , and do more generally approve . the holy concord of christians , must be the conversion of the unbelieving world , if god have so great a mercy for the world ; which is a consideration that should not only deter us from division , but make us zealously study and labour with all our interest and might , for the healing of the lamentable divisions amongst christians , if we have the hearts of christians , and any sense of the interest of christ . 2. the church resembles a house in order : and order is to be observ'd in all our endeavours for the edification of it . this living building resting upon christ , and being fitly framed together , groweth unto one holy temple in the lord. and as an organical body , being fitly joyned together and computed by every ministring joynt , supplying something according to its power , in proportion to the other parts , it increaseth , to the edifying of it self in love. mr. baxter says very well , a that enemies , both spiritual and corporal , are deterred from assaulting the church , or any of its members , while they see us walk in our military vnity and order . in this posture every man is a blessing and defence unto his neighbour . as every soldier hath the benefit of all the conduct , wisdom and valour of the whole army , while he keepeth in his place ; so every weak christian hath the use and benefit of all the learning , the wisdom and gifts of the church . the hand , the eye , the ear , the foot , and every member of the body , is as ready to help , or serve the whole , and every other particular member as its self . but if it be cut off , it is neither helpful , nor helped . o what a mercy is it for every christian , that is unable to help himself , to have the help of all the church of god ? their directiont , their exhortations , their love , their prayers , their liberality , and compassion , according to their several abilities and opportunities ? as infants and 〈…〉 have the help of all the rest of the ●●ises that are in health . ii. i am now to enquire , what you understand by edification , and whether you rightly judge , how it is best promoted . now as far as i can learn from those that pretend to it for the defence of their separation ; you take that to be edifying that 〈◊〉 in you some sensible devotion , that excites in you some religious affections , such as love , joy , fear , or the like . other things might be added , but i suppose , you have these chiefly in view , when you prefer the service in your meetings , before that of our churches . the way of praying in your assemblies , we are told , is more edifying , because you can be warmer , or more servent in it , than in the use of the prescribed forms . the preaching amongst you is more edifying and powerful than that of the conforming clergy , because you feel the working of it more upon your hearts ; and to argue against this , i● to dispute against your own experience . nevertheless , i shall examine , whether there are such advantages in your way as are pretended ; and whether the things on which you fix so high an estimate , deserve the preference which you have given them . 1. to begin with the way of praying us'd in your meetings , give me leave to tell you , that it may be , the effects of it are not of such a nature as you conceive , nor any argument of its excellency . it cannot well be thought , that a person should commonly make better choice of the matter of prayer , or express it better , or in fitter terms , when he speaks with little deliberation , or none at all , than he himself , or wiser and better men , can in a form of words , when they have long meditated on the subject , and employ'd many and serious thoughts about it . it must be therefore the novelty of of his expressions , and probably something in the tone of his voice , which makes his performance so agreeable , and has such an influence upon you . but you are not to think , that god is at all wrought upon by the variation of phrases , or the modulations of them . nor are these things apt to make any deep impressions on the nobler faculties of the soul ; but having done their work in the fancy , or imagination , they seldom rise higher ; nor can they do it by any thing of vertue in themselves . extempore prayers may have more power than forms to produce in some ill men a kind of extempore devotion ; some appearances of religious love , and fear , and joy. but these being rais'd by surprize , when the surprize is over , they are gone . and yet there are many that put great confidence in such vanishing things : many that live comfortably on the reflection on those delightful dreams , esteeming them realities , and clear evidences of their sanctification . many have been famous for what they call the gift of prayer . who have miserably deceiv'd themselves , and been only as sounding brass , when they were esteem'd as oracles . and many that have thought themselves much edified by hearing the extempore prayers of other men , have been under the same delusion . in such cases i doubt not but both speakers and hearers feel such motions within them , as bear a resemblance of true devotion : and these they do not impute to natural causes , as a little philosophy would teach them , but to inspiration , or the effectual working of sanctifying grace : and so they grow up into a strong opinion , that they are the favourites of heaven , when they allow themselves in the practice of injustice , of cruelty , and oppression , and other grievous sins . i deny not , that some persons , who have the gift of elocution , may , upon occasion , express the matter of prayer in suitable terms : nor do i question but to hear them , when they do so , may be of benefit to others . yet if they put too high a value upon this , and if it brings them into a contempt of all liturgies , what they took to be a peculiar priviledge , becomes a dangerous snare to them ; and instead of promoting , cannot but hinder their edification . for my own part , i think a well composed liturgy , has much the advantage of your way of praying , and is much fitter , in publick assemblies . it best secures the honour of religion in the solemnities of worship , and affords us the greatest help in the part that we bear in it . in the use of it we have no occasion to be in pain , or fear , about the next words that may fall from the minister , however he be a person of mean abilities ; nor have we cause to condemn those that before came from him , or any need to revolve them in our minds , as being uncertain whether we may say amen to them . having approv'd of all before , we have nothing to do but to keep our minds intent on the matter , as it comes before us , and to exercise our devotion as it directs us , and then we may have a comfortable assurance , that we perform a service that is acceptable to god , and agreeable to his will. as for our own liturgy , the learned dr. beveridge hath very well shew'd the excellency of it , and its usefulness for edification . and could i prevail with you to persue the sermon a attentively , wherein he treats of this subject , i should hope it would give you much satisfaction . what i shall say more of our liturgy is taken from a great authority , and express'd in these words : the book of common prayer , was compil'd in the times of the reformation , by the most pious and learned men of that age , and defended and confirm'd by the martyrdom of many ; and was first established by act of parliament in the time of king edward vi , and never repeal'd , or laid aside , save only in the short time of queen mary's reign , upon the return of popery and superstition : and in the first year of queen elizabeth it was again reviv'd , and established by act of parliament , and the repeal of it then declar'd by the whole parliament , to have been to the great decay of the due honour of god , and discomfort of the true professors of the truth of christ's religion : and ever since it hath been us'd and observ'd in the best times of peace and plenty that ever this kingdom enjoy'd , and contains in it an excellent form of worship and service of god , grounded upon the holy scriptures , and is a singular means and help to devotion . 2. it hath been said , that the way of preaching in your meetings , is more edifying than that which you heard in the conforming churches . and i confess , there would be no denying of this , if we may believe some of your teachers , who have pretended , that till they had their liberty to preach , the gospel was imprison'd , or the nation depriv'd of it . but few of you , i suppose , are thus perswaded . and yet i know not whether you have any better reason for the preference which you give to your pastors , and for having their persons so much in admiration . i deny not but there are amongst them persons of great abilities . but i think some of their brethren , much their inferiour , have had the reputation of more powerful preachers , who acquir'd it only by the use of a set of phrases , in which they had no meaning , or a bad one . and many have thought themselves much edified by such a sound of words , when they understood nothing by it ; or , which is much worse , receiv'd under it some false doctrine . such a doctrine is that of the antinomians , which being wrapt up in expressions of scripture , hath pass'd without any great examination , and gain'd an easie admission amongst many ; notwithstanding the plain opposition that it bears to the design of the gospel . there is no question but the antinomian doctrine being deliver'd in a pathetick manner , and with agreeable gestures , may heat the imagination , and work powerfully upon the affections of those that embrace it ; how contrary soever it is to the holy scripture . and this may give you some intimation , that you are not to judge of the excellence of sermons , by such effects as may proceed from falshood as well as truth , or may be owing to the pronunciation , or action of the speaker : but that which is fittest to convince the reason , and inform the judgment in things divine ; that which sets these things in the clearest light , and defends them best ; that which best shews the necessity of obedience , and urges the practice of all christian duties with the strongest motives ; that which most conduces to the reformation of manners , and to the perfecting of holiness in the fear of god , is the best preaching : and that this is wanting in the church of england , or more abounds in your meetings , is , in my opinion , what will not gain an easie credit amongst equal judges . yet let us suppose that you have amongst you better praying and preaching ; is there any thing wanting with us that is necessary to salvation ? this is not pretended by you . only you think you may receive greater benefit in your congregations , than was to be expected in our assemblies . what you seek then in frequenting those meetings , is your own advantage , without due regard to the publick good. but the edification which the scriptures require you to promote , is that of your neighbours ; and especially that of the church of christ . so that your notion of the thing is at best defective , and too narrow . what other faults it has we shall see hereafter . iii. the next enquiry is , whether it be a good rule , that you may , or ought to follow those teachers , whosoever they are , by when you can most be edified , or whose praying and preaching you approve , as most beneficial to your selves . to which i answer , that a rule which would give you liberty or make it your duty to shift communions as often as you expect something better for your selves , or more edifying , as you call it , in the next change , ought to be rejected as absurd , and as a ground of perpetual divisions . a numerous congregation acting by this rule , might soon be split into twenty , or many more ; according as the members of it differ'd about the best means of their edification . and of every one was left to judge for himself , who is the most edifying minister ; and all thought that they might admit of none but the best , the number of their teachers must be equal to that of their own opinions about them ; and there would be no fixing them under one unless they could all be perswaded , that this one is the best for them all. but as mr. baxter says , a almost all have a very strange diversity of apprehensions . one thinks that this is the best way , and another that the other is the best : and let them reason and wrangle it out never so long , usually each party still holdeth its own , and hardly yieldeth to anothers reasons . at corinth some said they were of apollos , as well as others did that they were of paul : and as far as we can find , both these parties thought they did the best , and contended with equal zeal . which yet might seem very strange , were it not usual with men in such debates , to be govern'd by fancy more than judgment . for paul was in nothing inferiour to the very chiefest apostles , and in his labours and sufferings he exceeded the rest . paul was caught up in the third heaven , and had such an abundance of revelations , that he was in danger of being exalted by them above measure . and it might well have been thought , that he was the person upon earth , from whom one should have been most willing to receive instruction . nevertheless some prefer'd apollos , who had no such priviledges , before him : and probably the reason was , because apollos was an eloquent man , as well as mighty in the scriptures . but of paul it was said , that his bodily presence was weak , and his speech contemptible . and for this reason , it seems , he was esteem'd amongst them a weak preacher . and such ill judges would the people often be in like cases , if these were left to their decision . but the apostle , to set the corinthians right about the matter in controversie , informs them , that he himself and apollos , were not design'd to be leaders of factions , but were unanimous in their work in the service of the same master : that they were both ministers of christ , and both employ'd by him , the one in planting , the other in watering . but , says he , neither is he that planteth any thing , nor he that watereth any thing , but god that giveth the increase . and from him they might have expected a blessing either by paul , or apollos , or much weaker instruments in a way of vnity and order : but in their factions preferring of their teachers before one another , they were carnal , and walked as men. they hindred their own benefit , when they disturb'd the churches peace . probably they expected some great benefit from their zeal which they express'd in their several parties , and their endeavours to have the best teachers : but they took wrong measures to obtain it , and were reprov'd for their contentions . and many there are at present who oppose the vnity , and break the order of the church , in hopes of better edification . but i shall shew that the means which they use , are contrary to the end which they propose , and therefore must frustrate their expectation , and bring guilt upon their souls . this indeed may be gather'd from what went before ; and these two things which i shall add for illustration of it , are only consequences of what i have already prov'd . 1. it follows from that which was said before , that what is against the vnity of the church , is also against the edification of it ; and consequently , of the parts whereof it consists . that which separates the stones of this building from one another , hinders the conveyance of that vital spirit , which would animate them all . that which divides this body , weakens it , and puts it into a sickly condition . the members that make a schism in it , throw it into dangerous convulsions : and they that make a schism from it , give it a grievous wound ; and afterwards can neither grow up with it , nor without it . if therefore they that make divisions could speak with the tongue of angels , we ought to avoid them . if in some things we might arrive at great knowledge by their instruction , we must avoid them notwithstanding . such knowledge would be apt to puff us up , but it is charity that edifieth . and charity , says clemens romanus , a admits of no schism . charity is not seditious , but doth all things in concord . all the elect were perfected by it , and without it nothing is acceptable unto god. 2. what is against order , is also against the edification of the church , and consequently , of the particular members of it . that which justles the stones of this spiritual building out of their places , hinders it as much as possible , from growing unto a holy temple in the lord. that which diverts the parts of this body , from their proper offices , or puts them out of joynt , hinders the nourishment , abates the strength , and destroys the comeliness and beauty of it . that which brings confusion into my society ecclesiastical , or civil , tends to the ruine of it , and fails not of doing mischief to it . to prevent this , even they that were inspir'd from heaven , and had psalms and doctrines , tongues , and revelations , and interpretations by miracle , were yet limited in the exercise of their gifts , and to restrain them , these two precepts were given by the apostle : let all things be done to edification : let all things be done decently and in order . decency and order have such a connexion with edification , that what promotes them , advances this : what is contrary to them , is contrary to this also . it is no wonder then that st. paul was so much concern'd , when he heard that among the thessalonians , there were some that walked disorderly , a or did break their ranks . for as such men might be useful in their proper places , so out of them they hinder the edification of the church , and are wont to be disturbers of the publick peace . many in the way of their vocation might have excell'd , who going beyond their line , intrenching on the rights of others , and assuming an authority which did not belong to them , have become great incendiaries ; and persons of that character have been most pernicious to the best societies . when such disturbers invade the offices of the church , it is not enough to say , that they act the part well , which they have taken upon them , when it is none of their own ; or that they have great gifts , and are well qualified for the sacred function , when their assuming it is a meer usurpation . there were many , doubtless , in israel , who could have managed the business of sacrificing , more de●trously than some of the priests themselves : but it appertained not to them ; and if they undertook it , they incurr'd the indignation of the almighty . and in a christian congregation there may be some private persons , who are of better capacity , or much fitter for the ministry , than the minister himself . but having no lawful call to it , it appertains not to them : and if , in confidence of their own abilities , they set up for spiritual pastors , they are so far from promoting edification , that they become open enemies to the church , and liable , as are also their followers , to a just condemnation . iv. the fourth enquiry is , whether your hopes of being better edified , may justifie your separation . that is , if i have stated the matter rightly , whether your false hopes may justifie a sinful practice . and this , i think , may easily be resolv'd . it appears from what was said before , that your practice is against the church , as a visible and a regular society : that it is against the vnity and order of it ; and consequently , that it is against the edification which the scripture requires ; as pulling a house in pieces is contrary to the building it up , and throwing it in heaps , is contraary to the adorning and reparation of it . 't is true , the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church ; nor shall the fury of man be able to destroy it : but to bring divisions and disorders into any part of it ; to separate from any sound members of it , and to form societies , or be of those , that are opposite to it , is to strike at the whole , and to attempt the ruine of it : as it is also to act against christ himself , who hath purchas'd and cemented it with his own blood. sect . v. having examin'd the arguments which have been offer'd on your part , to excuse you from the guilt of schism ; i am now to treat of the consequences of it . and these are so deplorable , and of such a nature , that they induced many antient and modern writers , who had them in view , to reckon this amongst the worst of crimes . mark those , says the apostle , which cause divisions and offences : and he had reason to put these things together . for divisions having their usual effect , become offences , and may well be esteem'd amongst the greatest scandals . i pretend not to give any compleat history of the evils which church-divisions have produced : yet i shall briefly shew , i. that they have hardned the infidels in their unbelief , and hindred their conversion . ii. that they have brought a reproach on the reformation of the church , and hindred the progress of it . iii. that they have given occasion to the spreading of many detestable errors in matters of religion . iii. that they have greatly encouraged immorality . i. they have hardned infidels in their unbelief , and hindred their conversion . this , says clemens alexandrinus , a is the thing which they first produce against us ; we ought not , say they , to believe , because of the difference of sects amongst you . to the corinthians , on the occasion of their divisions , clemens romanus a does thus address himself : your schism , saith he , hath perverted many , hath discouraged many : it hath raised doubts in many , and sorrow in us all . and a little after , b it is shameful , beloved ; yea , very shameful , and unworthy of a christian conversation , to hear , that the most firm and antient church of the corinthians , should by one or two persons , be led into sedition against their pastors . and this report is not only come to us , but to those also who are disaffected and estranged from us : insomuch that by your folly , the name of the lord is blasphemed , and danger accrues to your selves . it hath been found by experience , that when there was the greatest vnion amongst the faithful , it rais'd in those that were without a very high esteem of christianity , and strongly invited them to embrace it . but when schism prevail'd , it furnished the adversaries of the truth , with exceptions against it , and made them obstinate in their errors . this effect , as i shall shew , it hath had upon jews , heathens , and mahometans . 1. to begin with the jews ; they argue from the divisions amongst the christians , that the messiah is not yet a come . for , say they , was it not foretold by the prophets , that in his days , and amongst his followers , there should be unity and concord ; but how is this accomplish'd amongst those that believe in jesus ? where is their unanimity and harmony of affections ? where is their mutual love , and the promised peace ? are they not broken into many sects ? are they not ready to devour one another ? to this indeed we may reply , that jesus christ did break down the wall of partition that was between the jews and gentiles , and gathering a people out of both , he hath reconcil'd them in one body : that when great multitudes were converted to him , b whatever they might be before , they were of one heart , and one soul : that when the number of christians was mightily increas'd over the world , the heathens said of them with admiration , see how they mutually love one another : that the doctrine of jesus christ , disposes all that receive it heartily , to be of this temper , and to ●ollow after the things which make for peace ; and that all his genuine disciples do 〈◊〉 , of whom the predictions are to be un●derstood . and this i take to be a very sufficient answer to the objection ; yet it can hardly be hoped , that any great regard will be paid to it , when the schism amongst the professors of christianity so powerfully strike upon the senses of the adversaries , and turn their eyes another way . 2. the divisions amongst christians , have made the heathens more obstinate in their errors , and been a great scandal to them . from hence it is , that they who most violently oppos'd the gospel have been encouraged and animated in their enmity against it : and others that had something of inclination to it , have been made averse from it . the unbelieving greek , says st. chrysostom , a comes to us , thus he pleads , i would be a christian , but i know not to which party i should joyn my self : for there is ●uch contention and sedition , and many tumults amongst you . which opinion then shall i prefer ? which shall i chuse ? when every one saith , the truth is on my side . there is no great strength in such exceptions , yet they are obvious and popular , and with many they have been of greater force than the clearest demonstrations . 3. as for the mahometans , we are inform'd by a person of great worth , a who lived among them , that to divide the christians , hath always been the master-piece of the turkish policy , and this disunion amongst them hath avail'd the ottoman interest more than their swords , and confirm'd their obstinacy in religion with a miracle , as if the division of christian princes had been an effect of their prayers , and a concession of divine providence to their daily petitions . mr. baxter also tells us , b that doubtless the divisions of the christian world have done more to hinder the conversion of infidels , and keep the heathen , and mahometan world in their damnable ignorance and delusions , than all our power is able to undo ; and have produced such desolations of the church of christ , and such a plentiful harvest and kingdom for the devil , as every tender christian heart is bound to lament with tears of bitterness . if it must be , continues he , that such offences shall come , yet woe to those by whom they come . ii. divisions amongst the reformed , have brought a reproach upon the reformation , and hindred the progress of it . camden informs us , a that when the sectaries in the reign of queen elizabeth , made an open separation , the papist thereupon clapped their hands , and suggesting that there was no vnity in the church of england , they draw many to their party . by this means we have been on the losing hand , and this way they have gain'd more proselytes , than by all their books of controversie . you have been often told , how their agents have been employ'd to refine the protestants , to teach them a more spiritual way of praying than that of a liturgy , and to free them from all smacks of ceremonies : it being held meritorious by the managers of this affair , if under any shape they could from a party that would help to ruine our constitution . but in the late times , the men of this character , had the confidence to lay aside their disguise , and disdaining to act any longer behind the curtain , they did their work openly , and in the face of the sun : and what assistance you gave them in it , was visible to all the world. this i write , not to insult over you ; but in great pity , to raise your indignation against schism , which engaged you in a shameful confederacy . it was schism that made you , and other dissenters before you , the instruments of the open enemies of our reformation : and schism , if you persist in it , will detain you in their service . whether you intend it or not , you will be digging in their mines , or building up their shattered walls : and by your hands they will carry on their designs with hopes of success , which they despair of accomplishing by their own . iii. church-divisions have given occasion to the spreading of many detestable errors in matters of religion . they are apt to unsettle the minds of 〈◊〉 and pr●pare them for changes . we may gather from the words of st. paul , ephes . 4. 12 , 13 , 14. that ▪ they who forsake the officers which christ hath given for the perfecting or ●joying together of the saints ; they that are not compacted in his mystical body , but broken off from it , are as children tossed to and fro , by the sleight of men , ●word cunning craftiness , whereby they lie in wait to deceive . such deceivers are then most busie to exercise their arts , when they are remov'n , whose watchful eye should discover their impostures , and who are appointed for that purpose . and thus when the bishops and the clergy that adher'd to them were laid aside in this nation , false teachers did boldly shew their heads , and made a prey of very many . salmasius himself a complains , that innumerable sects which before were condemn'd to hell , and lurked in darkness , did then break out all on a sudden , and appear'd in an open day . and this was the cause that he alter'd his judgment about episcopal government , against which he had written with great zeal , and concluded , that in england especially , it ought to have been continu'd . this is the testimony of a forreigner , but our natives speak to the same purpose . mr. pagit a makes a heavy lamentation , that the wolves who were wont to lie in the woods , were come out into the sheepfold , and did roar in the holy congregation . and by another b we are told , that the discipline of the church was laid in her grave , and that the putredinous vermine of bold schismaticks , and frantick sectaries gloried in her ashes . mr. edwards declares , c that this land was become in many places a chaos , a babel , another amsterdam ; yea , worse , and beyond that . and he says , that more damnable doctrines , heresies , and blasphemies had been of late vented , than in fourscore years before . he also says to the lords and commons assembled in parliament , d you have cast out bishops , and their officers , and we have many that cast down to the ground all ministers in all the reformed churches : you have cast out ceremonies , as the cross in baptism , kneeling at the lord's supper ; and we have many that have cast out sacraments , baptism , and the lords supper . you have put down the saints days , and we have many that make nothing of the lord's day . mr. edwards a in the compass of a few pages , reckons up a vast number of heretical and blasphemous tenets , published within the space of four years : and he says , that things grew every day worse and worse ; and that it was hard to conceive them to be as bad as they were . this edwards is one that was not likely to be partial on the side of prelacy ▪ for he tells the lords and commons assembled in parliament , b that with choice and judgment he had imbarkt himself , with wife , children , estate , and all that was dear to him , to sink , or perish , or come safe to land with them : and that he had done this in the most doubtful and difficult times , and in a malignant place amongst courtiers . iv. church-divisions have greatly encouraged immorality : and this effect they had visibly in this nation , in the times of the great confusion . the disorders that were then introduced in matters ecclesiastical , were attended with others in things of morality : and if we may believe the nonconformists themselves , the many heresies which were spread abroad , were accompanied with a great corruption of manners , over the kingdom . on which occasion the assembly of divines said , a the lord hath strangely made way for vnion , by the bitter , woful , and unutterable fruits of our divisions , which have almost destroyed , not only the ministry , but even the very heart and life of religion and godliness . others also of the presbyterians , crying out against the horrible wickedness which did then abound , ascrib'd the growth of it to the increase of the sectaries , as they call'd them . but we may justly reckon the accusers in that number , and leave a great share of the matter in charge with them , who by revolting from their superiors , and deserting their lawful pastors , did break down the fences , and open a passage to all iniquity . to come nearer to the present time ; it is notorious , that since the last opening of your meetings by the toleration , impiety hath been gathering strength , and profaneness hath made such progress , that it is become too hard for all our laws . it is not doubted , but some new law is wanting to suppress it : and if that be obtain'd , it may be fear'd , that the success would not answer our desires , as long as the schism remains , which is at the root of this evil ; and is the great cause , why immorality hath so much spread it self , and boldly shew'd its head in defiance of all authority . but what affinity is there between schism and immorality , or how is the last of these a consequence of the former ? to which i answer . 1. that schism is a means of depraving the conscience . 2. it inclines men to infidelity . 3. it brings religion into contempt . 4. it is destructive of charity . 5. it weakens the ecclesiastical discipline , which was design'd for the punishment of offences . 6. it hinders , and sometimes frustrates the endeavours of the pastors of the church , for the suppression of vice , and the advancement of piety . 1. schism is a means of depraving the conscience ; and consequently of promoting immorality . for being the occasion of spreading of errors , which are inconsistent with holiness , the practice which is govern'd by them , when they have perverted the judgment , must be so too . and when men have been taught to call good , evil , and evil , good , their actions will be suitable to those instructions . we are inform'd by a thucydides , that in the times of sedition in greece , the signification of words was alter'd : so that a brutish hardiness was accounted true-hearted courage : provident deliberation , a decent fearfulness : prudence , a pretence for cowardice . — in short , says the historian , for persons to be of a kindred , was not so near as to be of a society ; on which account they were ready to undertake any thing , without making any disputes about it . and thus , when the church has been divided , the dividers have changed the names of things : and what , in other cases , they would have approv'd , they suffer not to pass without a sharp censure , when it is against their faction ; and what they would otherwise have condemn'd as a hainous crime , they consecrate into a duty , or an act of worship , when it is done by themselves , and for the interest of their party . 2. schism inclines men to infidelity , and by degrees leads them to it . dr. a owen confesses ; that it constantly grows to farther evil , in some to apostacy it self . in some it hath this effect , that they embrace one errour , or evil practice , after another , and being unstable and prepar'd for all changes , they usually grow worse and worse . thus some from declaiming against the common-prayer book as an idol , came to call the holy scripture a golden calf . and many who have been accustomed to shift their principles upon any new occasion , have turn'd scepticks , or atheists , at last ; and renouncing the fear of deity , have lived without god in the world. 3. schism brings religion into contempt , and exposes it to derision . the doctor of the gentiles saith , if an heathen come in and hear you speak with several tongues , will he not say that you are mad ? and certainly it is little better when atheists and profane persons do hear of so many discordant and contrary opinions in religion : it doth avert them from the church , and make them sit down in the chair of the scorners . these are the words of the lord a bacon : and they have been confirm'd by sad experience . 4. schism is destructive of charity . and from hence it is , that persons who provoked one another to love and to good works , when they remain'd in the same communion , being divided , have rejoyced in evil , and triumph'd in the falls of one another . mr. baxter b tells us , that he had great opportunity in his time , to see the working of the mystery of iniquity against christian love , and to see in what manner christ's house and kingdom is edified by divisions : and says he of himself , i thought once , that all that talk about schism and sects , did but vent their malice against the best christians under those names : but since then , i have seen what love-killing principles have done . i have long stood by while churches have been divided , and sub-divided : one congregation of the division , labouring to make the other contemptible and odious , and this call'd the preaching of the truth , and the purer worshipping of god. charity being expell'd , it is succeeded by envy and strife , by confusion , and every evil work. a false zeal usurps the place of true piety , and often pushes men on to the greatest enormities and acts of cruelty . this effect it hath often had amongst christians ; and in the days of the emperour julian , when they were much divided , it transported many of them into such rage against one another , a that the apostate was in hopes the church would perish , by their mutual animosities , and contentions . 5. schism weakens the ecclesiastical discipline , which was design'd for the punishment of offences ; and which put a powerful restraint on wickedness , when it remain'd in its full vigour . but when it is broken , it is rendred impracticable , or ceases to be a terrour to evil-doers . for as the jews , who would not be prevailed with , to live according to the law of moses , deserted jerusalem , and resorted to the temple which sanballet had built at garizin a ; so when a church is divided into opposite communities , offenders that would not be endur'd in one , fly to another for refuge . and then they are like to have no great regard for an excommunication , when it dismisses them from one , to another society , which will hardly fail to call it self the purer of the two , or to pretend to better means of edification . it may be thought , that a party being separated from the church , upon a pretence of greater purity , would not receive into their communion other deserters , who are notorious for their immorality . but this has been contradicted by frequent experience ; and particularly it was so in the case of novatianus and his followers : for however they profess'd a very rigorous strictness , yet they receiv'd into their society novatus , a man of contrary principles and loose morals . but that was no matter , as long as he serv'd their designs . they could connive at his former crimes , when he was engaged with them in schism , and communication of guilt had made them one. 6. schism hinders , and sometimes frustrates the endeavours of the pastors of the church , for the suppression of vice , and the advancement of piety ; and renders their condition like that of the jews , when they were rebuilding the walls of jerusalem , and held a weapon in one hand , whilst they wrought in the work with the other . they cannot lay out their whole strength against the immoralities of the times , and for the promoting of holiness , when they are diverted from it by a necessary defence of their own constitution . in this defence they must expect to suffer many reproaches from the seditious , who , when they have least to say for their cause , are usually most forward to cast aspersions on the pastors and people which they have deserted , that it may not be thought , it was for nothing that they made a separation . but the pastors of the church commonly bear the greatest share of this , as well as other persecutions : and then if the calumny with which they are loaded , is believed , it does infinite mischief . it renders their persons despicable , and their ministry useless . it makes their reproofs of sin appear ridiculous ; and be they innocent as they will , the imputation of wickedness , which is fastned on them , gives encouragement to those that are under the guilt of real crimes , and becomes an inlet to all debauchery . the conclvsion . i have now gone over the things which i design'd to treat of : and if you have well consider'd what has been said , perhaps you may see cause to say to one another , in the words of mr. baxter , a alas , dear brother , that we should not yet know that our own vncharitable divisions , alienations , and separations , are a crying sin ! yea , the crying sin , as well as the vncharitableness and hurtfulness of others . alas , will god leave us also , even to the obdurateness of pharaoh ? is there not crying sin with us ? what have we done to christ's kingdom , to this kingdom , to our own friends , dead and alive , to our selves , and alas , to our enemies , by our divisions ? and do we not feel it ? do we not know it ? is it to us , even to us a crime intolerable , to call us to repentance ? woe to us ! into what hardheartedness have we sinned our selves ! yea , that we should continue in the sin , and passionately defend it ! but to sum up all . would you bring the kingdom of christ to desolation , or are you willing to see the ruine of his house ? would you hinder the unbelieving world from receiving the gospel , or would you harden them in their insidelity ? would you blast the honour of our english reformation , and give pros●lytes to the church of rome ? would you occasion the spreading of many false and damnable doctrines , which cast reproach on the christian name , and are pernicious to the souls of men ? would you keep open a free passage for all iniquity , and encourage vice to appear abroad in great pomp , without shame , or fear ? schism is the direct way to all this , and the means which you have chosen , answer the ends which you have in view . but would you rather see the kingdom of christ in a flourishing condition , and the house increase strength and splendour , which he hath built with so much care and cost ? would you be instrumental to the conversion of unbelievers , or would you have them brought from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god ? would you defeat the designs of the factors for the church of rome , who have been so busie in inflaming our differences , and so ready to make their advantage of them ? would you hinder the progress of error , or do what is proper to stop the mouths of its advocates ? would you help to stem the torrent of profaneness , and drive it backwards ? and would you see the open enemies of religion , forced into their lurking holes , or flying into their retreats of darkness ? would you do what is highly beneficial to others , as well as glorious and happy for your selves ? your way is to return to the vnity of the church , which you have forsaken : and if that be so , as i really think it is , my endeavours to bring you into it , will need no apology . finis . errata . page 10. in the margent , for 1 cor. 10. 1. read 1. 10. for galat. 5. 3. r. 5. 13. and for revel . 12. 17. r. 2. 17. p. 13. marg. l. 6. r. octavio . p. 19. l. 9. for 2. r. 3. and l. 22. r. their fall . p. 20. l. 16. r. had been . p. 21. marg. l. 1. r. coteler . p. 31. marg. l. 1. r. revel . 21. 1 , 10. p. 32. l. 8. dele and. p. 48. marg. l. 4. r. reines . p. 52. marg. l. 4. r. act. 10. p. 53. marg. r. act. 21. p. 65. l. 5. r. by him that does so . p. 69. l. 25. r. know . p. 72. marg. r. tit. 3. 11. p. 83. l. 13. for ark r. altar . p. 89. l. 28. r. a third . p. 100. l. 13. can you — this and the following lines , to the end of the page , should have been printed in another character . p. 103. l. 26. r. 1 tim. 1. 18. p. 111. l. 9. r. you have . p. 117. l. 10. r. ananias . p. 125. l. 25. r. to it . p. 131. l. 25. r. of the. p. 134. l. ult . r. malala . p. 155. l. penult . r. enjoy in it . p. 158. l. 5. r. litany . p. 169. l. 9 , 10. for their their r. his . p. 174. l. 14. dele more . partial , put the comma before partial . p. 189. l. 18. dele the. p. 191. l. 3. r. compacted . p. 201. marg. l. 1. r. 1 cor. 3. 4. p. 202. l. 4. r. 1 cor. p. 203. l. 4. r. factious . p. 210. l. 15. for iii , r. iv. p. 213. l. 13. r. schisms . p. 217. l. 13. r. removed . p. 230. l. penult . r. increase in . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a30624-e170 job 34. 32. 1 kings 18. 21. see his libertas ecclesiastica . john 17. 21 , 22 , 23. ephes . 2. 21. ephes . 4. 16. ephes . 4. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. phil. 2. 1 , 2. ephes . 4. 5. jude 3. 1 cor. 10. 1. coloss . 2. 2. galat. 5. 3. rom. 12. 10. john 13. 34. revel . 12. 17. & 5. 9. john 17. 9. gal. 6. 10. vid. justel . not. in cod. 〈◊〉 . eccl. v●●v . p. 149 , 150. & pag. 205 , 206. 1 pet. 2. 17. & 3. 8. act. 15. 1 , 3 , 22 , 23 , 32 , 33 , 40. rom. 16. 14. gal. 1. 2. ephes . 6. 23. phil. 1. 14. coloss . 1. 2. 1. thess . 4. 10. 5. 26 , &c. justin . apol. ad anton. p. pag. 161. lucian . tom. 2. p. 567. ed. amst . 1687. caecil . apud minuc . felic . in octavo , p. 81 , 82. edit . amst . 1672. john 13. 35. john 17. 21. gal. 3. 27. 1 cor. 12. 13. act. 2. 42. jude 12. a vid. aring . rom. subter . l. 6. c. 27. & balduin , comment ! in plin. l. 10 : epist . 97. a osculum pacis quod est signaculum orationis . tert. de drat. e. 14. p. 134. b vid. ●a cerd . advers . sacr. c. 151. n. 19. & aubespin . de l'eucharistie . l. 2. c. 15. &c. rom. 16. 16. 1 cor. 16. 20. c vid. tertul. ubi supra & rigalt . in locum . 1 cor. 10. 17. d quo et ipso sacramento populus noster oftenditur adunatus , ut quemadmodum grana multa in unum collecta , & commolita , & commixta , panem unum faciunt : sic in christo qui est panis coelestis , unum sciamus esse corpus , cui conjunctus sit noster numerus & adunatus . cyprian ep. 63. p. 154. a qui accipit mysterium unitatis , & non servat vinculum pac●● ▪ non aceipit mysterium pro se , sed testimonium contra se . serm. de sacrament . ad infant . 1 cor. 10. 20 , 21. ver . 16. a vid. origen . contra cel. l. 3. p. 142. ed. spencer . b vid. tertul. de poenit. c. 9. & pamelii annot. in locum . 1 cor. 5. 13. 2 cor. 2. 7. ver . 8. a vid. ●evereg . annot. in canon . 2. concil . nic. p. 71. a vid. coteter . not. in const . apostol . col. 169 , 170. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c vid. plin. l. 10. ep. 43. & 97. cum comment . balduini . d tertull. apolog. c. 39. p. 31. ed. paris . 1675. e p. 32. ephes . 4. 16. rom. 12. 4. a ep. ad corinth . c. 40. b c. 41. c ibid. ephes . 4. 11. ver. 12. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. vid. bud. comment . ling. grae p. 737. & hammond . annot. in a cor. 13. 11. ver. 13. 1. cor. 12. 28. 1 cor. 4. 1. matt. 16. 19. 1 cor. 5. 4. 2 cor. 2. 10. 2 cor. 5. 20. joh. 17. 18 , 20 , 21. acts 6. 6. 1 tim. 5. 17. ● cor. 8. 23. a treatise of church-government , c. 6. b theod. tom. 3. p. 172. john 13 ▪ 20. 1 cor. 14. 32. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 greg. na● . orat. 26. p. 449. ed. paris . 1630. 1 cor. 14. 40. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. xenophon . occonom . p. 664. coloss . 2. 5. 1 cor. 14. 33. rom. 12. 4 , 5. rom. 11. 17 , 18 , 19. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●●d . bud. comment . p. 764. rom. 11. 25. ephes . 2. 21. joh. 10. 16. cantic . 6. 4. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . xenophon . ubi supra . revel . 1. 10. matt. 13. 41. ephes . 2. 19. rom. 14. 19. 1 cor. 14. 33. b 〈◊〉 pamel . annot. in tertull. de pr●●script . c. 20. 〈◊〉 . de l'eucharistie , l. 2. c. 5. ephes . 2. 14. and 4. 3. ● tim. 2. 22 , &c. c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ezek. 43. 24. lev. 2. 13. num. 18. 19. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●u●tath . in homer . iliad . 4. p. 100. see ephes . 11. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 , 19. colos . 2. 19. a treatise of church of government , c. 2. b cyprian . tract . p. 229. ed. oxon. a cypr. epist . 61. p. 136. a episcopatus unus est cujus , à singulism solidum pars tenetur . cypr. tract . p. 108. vid. episcop . oxon. not. in locum . b collegium epi●●●pale non aliud , quam episcoporum universus ordo , ac societas quam latè patet . omnes enim toto orbe episcopi collegae . hinc aliquando collegium absolute , pro episcopale collegium : & collegae pro episcopis , &c. m. casaub . in optat. l. 1 , p. 5. c copiosum corpus est sacerdotum concordiae mutuae glutino atque unitatis vinculo copulatum . cypr●●● . ep. 68. p. 178. a vid. constitut . apost . 1. 2. c. 58. & coteler . not. in locum , p. 187. b survey of church discipline , by t. h. part. a. c. 2. a see ruthband's n●●rative of some church-courses in n. e. p. 43. b hodie pr●●byter qui cras laicus . 〈…〉 c. 41. p. 217. c ball 's tryal of the new church . 〈…〉 80. 〈…〉 p. 144. a vid. canon . apostolic . 12 , 19. concil . nicam . canon . 5. antioch . can. 6. epist . synod . african . in bevereg . syn●dic . t. 1. p. 675. epiphan . haeres . 42. c. 1 , ● . synes . ep. 58. p. 203. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . vid. justel . not. in cod. can. eccl. univers . p. 232. a pacem tamen quomodocunque à sacerdote dei ●em●l data●● non putavimus au●erendam . cyprian . ep. 64. p. 158. rom. 15. 20. see 2 cor. 10. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. galat. 1. 22. 2 cor. 8. 1. galat. 1. 2. 1 cor. 16. 19. act. 8. 1. 13. 1. a vid. justel . not. in cod. canon . eccl. univers . p. 184 , 185. 1 cor. 1. 2. revel . 2. 12. 18. 3 , 7. 2. 1 , 8. 3. 14. 1 thes . 1. 1. a vid. jus divin . regiminis eccles . c. 13. p. 213. &c. hudson . vind. c. 7. p. 154. &c. blondel . praefat. ad eccles . rectores , p. 76. salmas . apparat. p. 239 , 240 , 253 , &c. a scire debes episcop●● in ecclesia esse , & ecclesiam in episcopo — quando ecclesia , qu● catholica una est , scissa non ●it , 〈◊〉 divisa ; ●●d sit utique co●●e●a & 〈…〉 sibi invicem sacerdotum glutino copulata . cyprian . ep. 66. p. 168. heb. 1● . 25. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . vid. ephes . 2. 19. galat. 6. 10. b vid. spanhem . dissert . 9. de praest . & usu numism . p. 692. 792. ad 796. roines . inscript . class . 5. n. 20 , 22. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . eyhes . 2. 9. see rom. 12. 13. 1 pet. 4. 9. b vid. chr. lupi schol. in tertul. lib. de praescript . c. 20. c vid. philippi thomasini lib. de tesseris hospitalitatis , c. 7. & 10. d dum est illis communicatio pacis , & appellatio fraternitatis , & contesseratio hospitalitatis . quae jura non alia ratio regit , quam ejusdem sacramenti una traditio . tertullian . ubi supra . vid. canon . 2. concil . chalcedon . cum notis justel . p. 129 , &c. a vid. sozomen . hist . eccl. l. 5. c. 16. p. 618. 1 cor. 16. 1 , 2. 2 cor. 8. 4. 9. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. galat. 2. 2. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . lucian . tom. 2. p. 567. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . rom. 15. 26. 2 cor. 8. 4. 9. 13 , &c. b viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 constitut . apost . lib. 2. c. 58. acts 4. 47. acts 22. 25. a vid. julian . imperat. orat. 7. p. 238 , 239. ed. spanhem . ephes . 2. 14. a joseph . antiq. jud. lib. 15. c. 14. 1 pet. 2. 9 , 10. a vid. solden . de jure nat. & gent. l. 2. c. 4. c. 169. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . polit. l. ● . c. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. l. 3. c. 1. a vid. grot. de jure b. & p. l. 2. c. 9. sect. 3. a praescript . c. 20. p. 208 , 209. 1 joh. 1. 3. 1 cor. 12. 12. ephes . 5. 29 , 30. see 1 cor. 3. 3. jam. 3. 16. a treatise of self-denial , ep. monit . a. d. 1659 : a ingens flagitium schismatis . l. 1. p. 22. p. 23. b chrys . tom. 3. p. 822. c advers . haeres . l. 4. c. 62. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . rom. 16. 17. 1 cor. 3. 3. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . strab. lib. 13. c pythagorae , hisque qui ejus haeresim fuerunt secuti , &c. vitruv . de architect . praefat. 1. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 diog. lacrt. proaem . segm. 19. plurimosque discipulos vivo adhuc praeceptore in suam haeresim congregasset . d aug. de civit. dei , l. 8. c. 12. acts 24. 5. & 28. 22. acts 24. 14. 1 cor. 11. 18. v. 19. tit. 3. 10. 1 cor. 11. 18 1 cor. 3. 4. 1 cor. 1. 10. 1 cor. 12. 25. a owen of schism , p. 42. b pag. 275. c pag. 69. a pag. 11. b dr. cawdry . see his independency further prov'd to be a schism . p. 15. c pag. 8. a pag. 51. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . galat. 5. 12. tit. 3. 2. a cyprian . de unit. eccles . p. 108. mat. 12. 30. a epist . ad ephes . p. 20. b ibid. 1 joh 2. 19. ver. 18. ver. 19. heb. 10. 24 , 25. tit. 3. 10. rom 16. 17. a pag. 40. b pag. 6. c pag. 7. d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e epist . 66. p. 168. a epist . 43. p. 83. b see langley ' s persecuted minister , p. 35. 39. see jus divin . minist . angl. p. 83. 87. 90. a see cawdry's appendix to independ . a great schism . b true nature of a gospel . church , p. 56 , 57 , 58. 2 ●am . 6. a vid. joseph . antiq. j●d . lib. 7. c. 4. a pallad . de vit. chrysost . p. 5. ed. bigot . b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , num. 16. 1. c antiq. jud. lib. 4. c. 1. p. 245. ed. oxon. numb . 16. 〈◊〉 . jude 1● . luk. 10. 16. a polit. lib. 2. c. 2. numb . 16. 30. a epistle to the reader , before his quo warranto . a epistle to the reader before ju● divin . minist . evang : b philadelphians . a ubi supra . b anno dom. 1658. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 1. 10. a qui estis vos & unde venissis ? optat. lib. 2. b non nego quin apostolos postea quoque , vel saltem evangelistas in terdum excitarit deus , ut nostro tempore factum est . talibus enim qui ecclesiam ab antichristi defectione reducerent , opus suit . munus tamen ipsum extraordinarium appello , quia in ecclesi●● ritè constitutis locum non habet . calvin . inst . l. 4. c. 3. sect. 4. auteurs de sa reformation ont volontairement renonce a la marque de l'eglise romaine ; qu'l faut tenir leur vocation pour extraordinaire , &c. bez. hist . p. 580. ● tim. 4. 14. a instit . lib. 4. c. 3. sect. 16. a selden . de syned . lib. 1. c. 14. b ex hoc autem loco novi foederis unico tum lectionis tum sensus , ut vides , adeo incerti — mira formantur & varia ab aliquibus de jurisdictione presbyterii velut instituto divino etiam tunc fundata . ibid. joh. 2. v. 1. joh. 3. v. 1. pet. 1. v. 1. a vid. epiphan . haeres . 75. c. 3. b in rebus divinae institutionis nemo potest quod non accepit tradere , nec potestatem quam ipse non habet alii transcribere . sa●● . apparat. p. 232. a quis unquam vidit aut legit eos qui extraordinariam potestatem habituri sunt , delegari & ordinari ab illis qui ordinariam habent tantum . apparat , p. 18. 2 tim 1. 6. a hieron . in tit. 1. a see the n●rrative of some church-courses in n. engl. by w. r. c. 12. a de qua terra germinavit ? de quo mari emersit ? de quo coelo decidit , contr. donat. lib. 3. c. 2. 2 tim. 4. 3. b laicis sacerdotalia munera injungunt . praescript . haer●● . c 41. p. 217. a jus divin . minist . angl. part 1. p. 185 , 186. b page . 187. a populus nunquam habuit eligendi & ordinandi presbyteros vel episcopos , qu●tamen potest regem super se imponere , & libertatem corporum suorum alicui domino mancipere . apparat. pag. 232. b non universam multitudinem manus imposuisse suis ministris , sed solos pastores . institut . l. 4. c. 3. sect. 16. c ordinandi , seu manus imponendi potestatem protestantium nemo laicis tribuendam putavit . blondel . apol. sect. 3. pag. 523. a 〈◊〉 of agreement , p. 6 , 7. a vid. athanas . apolog. 2. p. 570. b a. d. 324. a see cotton ' s way of the churches of new-england , c. 6. sect. 3. 〈…〉 the narrative of some church-courses in new-england , by w. ● . c. 8. p. 32. a pag. 5. b pag. 11. a cyprian . epist . 69. p. 183 , 184. b hos . 9. 4. a tom. 3. p. 822 , 823. ed. s●vil . a ad lxx interpretes respicit apud quos 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , est consecrare , exod. 28. 41 , & 29. 9 , & 32. 29. levit. 8. 33 , 34. numb . 3. 3. vid. morin . de ordinat . part. 2. & buxtorf . lex . chald. in voce 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a vid. grot. de jure b. & p. lib. 2. c. 9. sect. 10. 1 cor. 1. 12. 1 cor. 3. 3. 1 cor. 1. 13. philip. 4. ● . a cap. 47. b see rom. 2. 16. 1 cor. 11. 19. 1 john 11. 19. a dr. hamm●●d . acts 10. 34. acts 15. 7. acts 13. 5 , 14. acts 18. 4. acts 28. 23 , 24. acts 15. 23. acts 15. 1. a constitut . apostolic . l. 7. c. 46. p. 372. b malat. chronograph . p. 325. a vid. d. pearson . cestriens . episcop . opp. posthum . chro● . dissert . poster . b see treatise of church government , c. 9 , 11 , 14. see ephes . 2. 14 , 15 , &c. galat. 1. 7 , 8. philip. 3. 2. rom. 16. 17. gal. 2. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14. acts 13. 1. clem. rom. epist . ad corinth . c. 1. a vid. origen . in luc. c. 1. homil. 6. euseb . h. e. l. 3. c. 12. b iren. advers . haeres . l. 3. c. 3. tertull. praescript . c. 32. c vid. cyprian . ep. 46. & 55. d cornel. apud euseb . h. e. l. 6. c. 43. e vid. cornel. ep. ad cyprian-inter ep. cypr. p. 49. p. 93. matt. 18. 20. a cyprian . de unit. eccles . p. 112 , 113. matt. 18. 19. philip. 1. 15 , 18. ver. 19. a 〈◊〉 ess . n. 3. a cyprian . de unit. p. 112. a optat. l. 1. p. 22 , 23. matt. 15. 14. b vid. joseph . antiq. jud. lib. 3. c. 7. p. 434. a hares . 75. n. 4. isa . 5. 20. job 13. 7. rom. 3. 8. a see baylie's disuasive , c. 1. ● . 2. paget's arrow against separation , p. 28 , &c. rom. 4. 15. 1 cor. 11. 5 , &c. 1 cor. 14. 40. 1 cor. 11. 22. 1 cor. 6. 20. psal . 95. 6. 1 cor. 11 , &c. 1 cor. 11. 14. 1 cor. 13. 5. 1 cor. 11. 16. a see dr. hammond's view of the new directory , sect. 23. a way of the churches in new england , c. 4. sect. 2. 1 cor. 5. 1 , 2. 2 cor. 12. 21. 1 cor. 6. 1 , 6. 1 cor. 11. 21. 1 cor. 11. 17. 1 cor. 1. 2. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 2 cor. 13. 11. 1 cor. 12. 20 , 25 , 27. 1 cor. 1. 10. a mr. ball. see his answer to can. p. 137 , 138. a baxter's direct . p. 745. prov. 13. 10. a clem. roman . epist . ad corinth . c. 1. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c. 47. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c. 1. a fingitis vos ante tempus messis fugere permixta zizania , quia vos estis sola zizania . nam si frumenta essetis , permixta zizania toleraretis , & à segete christi non vos divideretis . august . epist . 171. a christian direct . p. 739 , 740. a see their preface before the jus divin . reg. eccles . b christian direct . p. 741. 1 tim. 3. 15. 1 pet. 2. 5. ephes . 2 20. colos . 3. 15 a vid. ep. 1. ad corinth cap. 1 & 2. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . vid. coteler . not. col. 83 , 84. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b chr. direct . p. 739. ephes . 2. 21. ephes . 4. 16. a christian direct . p. 738. a sermon on 1 cor. 14. 26. a cure of church-divisions , p. 359. 1 cor. 3. 3. 2 cor. 12. 11. 2 cor. 12. 2 , 7. acts 18. 24. 2 cor. 10. 10. 2 cor. 3. 7. 1 cor. 3. 3. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. ep. ad corinth . c. 49. 1 cor. 14. 26 , 40. 2 thess . 3. 11. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . see also v. 6. and 1 thess . 5. 14. rom. 16. 17. a strom. lib. 7. p. 753. a ep. ad corinth . c. 46. b c. 47. a vid. episcop . instit . lib. 3. sect. 4. c. 21. b see dr. pocock , on micah 4. 3. acts 4. 32. a tom. 4. p. 799. a rycaut's history of th● turkish empire . p. 80. b christian directory , p. 740. a cambd. elizab. a. d. 1583. a ab episcopatus abolitione consecuta est horrenda confusio & perturbatio religionis , sectis innumera bilibus quae antea or●o damnatae in tenebris delites●ebant , de repente qua data porta undequaque in ●ucem erumpentibus . salm. resp . ad milton . a heres . p. 41. a. d. 1645. b dr. 〈◊〉 c gangr . part. 1. p. 120. printed a. d. 1645. d a. d. 1646. a see gangr . part. 1. p. 18 , &c. b ep. ded. a epistle to the reader before jus divin . minist . evangel . a de bello pelopon . lib. p. 195. edit . oxon. a owen of schism , p. 55. a bac. ess . 3. b see the preface to his cure of church-divisions . a vid. ammian . marcellin . lib. 22. c. 5. 〈◊〉 notis ha●r . vales . a vid. joseph . antiq. jud. lib. 2. cap. 8. nehem. 4. 17. a defence of his cure , part 2. p. 6. a second admonition to mr. edward bagshaw written to call him to repentance for many false doctrines, crimes, and specially fourscore palpable untruths in matter of fact ... : with a confutation of his reasons for separation ... / by richard baxter ... baxter, richard, 1615-1691. 1671 approx. 314 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 117 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2006-02 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a27032 wing b1400 estc 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a27032) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 63037) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 305:10) a second admonition to mr. edward bagshaw written to call him to repentance for many false doctrines, crimes, and specially fourscore palpable untruths in matter of fact ... : with a confutation of his reasons for separation ... / by richard baxter ... baxter, richard, 1615-1691. [11], 190, [1] p. printed for nevill simmons ..., london : 1671. page 32 has faded print in the filmed copy. pages 22-47 photographed from union theological seminary library, new york copy and inserted at the end. errata: p. 190. reproduction of original in british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bagshaw, edward, 1629-1671. -antidote against mr. baxters palliated cure of church divisions. bagshaw, edward, 1629-1671. -defense of the antidote against mr. baxter's palliated cure of church divisions. schism. 2005-07 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-11 jonathan blaney sampled and proofread 2005-11 jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a second admonition to mr. edward bagshaw ; written to call him to repentance for many false doctrines , crimes , and specially fourscore palpable untruths in matter of fact , deliberately published by him in two small libels ; in which he exemplieth the love-killing and depraving principles of church-dividers : and telleth the world to what men are hasting ▪ when they sinfully avoid communion with true churches and christians , for tolerable faults . with a confutation of his reasons for separation : written to preserve the weak , to resist the dividing temptations of the imperious unskilful clergy , to revive our dying hopes of concord , and to vindicate the non-conformable ministers from the unjust imputation of schismatical principles . by richard baxter , a long-maligned and re●sted endeavourer of the churches unity and peace . london , printed for nevill simmons , at the three crowns near holborn-conduit . 1671. the contents . a preface to those that are inclined to principles of church division and separation ; containing twenty causes of that sin , and some notices of mr. bagshaw's two libells . to mr. e. b. the grounds on which i go in dealing with him . why i answer him contrary to my former purpose . sect. 1. of calling him brother : of a middle way . sect. 2. whether every untruth be a lye ? sect. 3. of scripture perfection . sect. 4. of the design of my book . sect. 6 , 7. whether calling dividers to repent , &c. be to make them odious ? sect. 8. whether all they whose sin brings judgements , must be hated of all and killed ? sect. 9 , 10. whether i disclaimed any activeness in the first war ? sect. 15. whether i approved of setting up cromwell to be protector ? and such like ? sect. 20. my repentance published at mr. e. b. his invitation , in four parts . of mr. e. b. his former defence of me against the then bishop of worcester . sect. 21 , 22. of christs temporal reign , and my judgement of it . sect. 24. whether i meant it , because i dare not own any persecuted truth . sect. 25. whether i inveigh against sufferings ▪ — of sufferers temptations . sect. 26 , &c. his sinful excuse of vavasor powells three publick false prophecies . sect. 29 , &c. his ( wholsome ) accusation of me as proud , 1. for saying that i publickly communicated : 2. for saying that many have written against me , that expect clean contraries from me . 3. for writing many books . sect. 31. of his accusation in general about justification . sect. 33. of the stating of the question about separating principles . sect. 34 , &c. many of his misreports about my stating it . sect. 38. his first reason for separation examined , viz. because every parish church is part of a diocesane church . how far that is true or not . sect. 39. his second reason , that a parish minister is but a servant to the diocesan . sect. 40. his third reason : because parish ministers consent to silencing and persecution , by open consent or pernicious silence ? whether there be little difference between persecuting , and not sharply reproving it ? sect. 41. his fourth reason ; that parish ministers enter sinfully , and by a solemn oath renounce their christian liberty . all sinners , or sinful enterers not to be separated from . sect. 42. may not a true church be called defective and faulty . sect. 43. his further reasons . 1. that we know not how else to preserve our christian liberty . whether all christian liberty must be maintained ? and how ? sect. 44. 2. whether to be present where things are used in gods worship which he commanded not , be a sin ? sect. 45. 3. whether if we separate not we sell the truth about christs soveraignty ? sect. 46. his reason from acts 15. retorted . sect. 47. he taketh not corruption and error as such without imposition to be a sufficient ground of separation . how he is himself an imposer . sect. 48. the charge of hypocrisie for joyning in what we approve not ? sect. 49. that christ called and designed not his church to be impure and mixt , considered . sect. 50. how far a church is to be separated from , for abetting sin . sect. 51. his grand answer to the example of church-pollutions in scripture , that they were setled as to officers and ordinances rightly , and so had a power to keep themselves clean , &c. considered . what power ministers have now . whether the ages following the first , did fall into an vniversal innovation , and degeneration in the essentials of order and doctrine , and antichristianism ? and so christ had no church , and was no christ ? whether mr. e. b. be a seeker , and separate from all churches , as well as from all parochial ? sect. 52. whether the necessity of separation because of the said vniversal degeneration in essentials continue still , because we are reformed from antichristianism but in some points ? sect. 53. he granteth that neither corruption barely , nor imposition barely is a ground for just separation . but imposing error with a strong hand , &c. sect. 54. his vain answer , intimating that he is wiser herein than the old non-conformists . sect. 55. of arminianisme , whether so pernicious as to exclude from communion — sect. 56. of free will and its power to receive — sect. 57. his ignorant calumny against me about scripture perfection . sect. 58. twenty questions to him about various readings and copies , &c. sect. 59. of the possibility of salvation for some called papist ? sect. 61. his former untruth that by [ flesh ] i affirmed was only meant the sensitive appetite , defended by him by reciting my words which expresly confute his calumny . sect. 62. the reason rendred by mr. e. b. why he cast away my book of rest , and refused to read it , and yet is the judge of it ; and my account of my dissent long ago from his latin slender discourse against monarchy . sect. 63. his report of mr. herles , and mr. cawdrys words against my saints rest . sect. 67 , &c. many more of his vntruths . sect. 74. more of his ignorant calumny about scripture perfection . sect. 75 , 76 , &c. more of the nature of his defences and accusations . sect. 80. five vntruths delivered by the letter published by him , as written by a woman of worcester ; with my sense of her case . sect. 81 , &c. seven vntruths published by him in his brother brownes letter ; and the confutation of their calumnies . sect. 94. mr. e. b. his new sort of dishonesty charged on me , because ( he saith ) i have access to the licensers and press . sect. 95. whether it be culpable vanity to write on the sabbath after dr. owen ( as he thought . ) sect. 97. his calumny of my atheistical arguing against the divine and self-evidencing authority of the scriptures — and as one of the worst sort of hereticks , that under the notion of being a christian and a protestant do with my utmost industry and cunning labour to overthrow the foundation , and therefore am to be rejected of all — the case opened , and the weak warned to take heed of them that would ignorantly draw them to be infidels , by subverting christianity , while they think themselves the chief or true defenders of it . to those readers who are most enclined to the principles of church-division , and censorious unwarrantable separation . i know there is in holiness a contrariety to sin ; and heaven and hell must finally shew the difference for ever : and to reconcile them is as unpossible , as to reconcile light and darkness . i know that it is the endeavour of every faithful minister of christ , to make this difference plainly known , and in doctrine and discipline to separate the precious from the vile ; and to make ungodly men know that they are ungodly , and to give to each their proper portion , and to keep the churches as clean as they can by lawful means . i know that the ruine of this purging and differencing discipline , is a great part of the lamentable ruine of the churches , and occasioneth that scandal to the mahometans and heathens , because of the wicked lives of christians , which is one of the greatest hinderances of their conversion : and that all christians should use their utmost skill and power , to recover religion to its primitive purity and splendour , and discipline to the most effectual regular exercise . and i know that in mens private converse there must be a great care what company we converse with , and especially whom we make our familiars . and that to be indifferent , and to intimate an equality or likeness of the godly and the wicked , in doctrine , communion , and familiarity , is a notable sign of an ungodly person . and upon these accounts , i know that when persons are newly recovered from ungodliness themselves , they are very much inclined to fly from the company of such , as far as their safety doth require : and by this inclination and their ignorance , they are frequently tempted to go further from them in church communion , than god alloweth them to do , and instead of separating from them in their sin , to separate from them in their duty ; and to separate from the churches of christ in his true worship , because of the mixture and presence of the bad . and this they are drawn to , 1. by forgetting the scripture pattern , and state of the churches even in the purest age , and thinking only what they desire , rather than what is to be expected or done . 2. by forgetting the difference between the church visible , which is alwayes mixt with hypocrites and offenders , and the church invisible which shall all be saved . 3. by forgetting the difference between their private familiarity , where they are choosers of their company themselves ; and their church communion , where the pastors are the rulers and judges of the fitness of the members . or else not understanding that this use of the keyes , and judging of the fitness of the members , is indeed the pastors office , and not theirs . 4. by not considering that nothing must be done by discipline upon offenders , but in a course of church-justice , upon due accusations , summons , audience , proof and patient admonition : and not by casting out any irregularly upon the expectation of every one that will say that they are ungodly and scandalous . 5. by forgetting the great difference between joyning with men in sinful actions , and joyning with them in their duty in which they should be encouraged . 6. by forgetting the great difference of keeping in our own place and duty , though bad men are present , and going out of our place and duty to joyn with them in sin . 7. by forgetting that god will have all mens own wills , by choosing , or refusing , to have more hand in their welfare or misery , than other mens : and if they mischoose , the sin will be their own . 8. by forgetting that god hath not left the church at arbitrary liberty to judge any godly or ungodly at their pleasure ; but hath given us a set test or rule to judge them by ; which is [ their sober profession of consent to the baptismal covenant ; upon which the adult and their infants have right to baptism ; and being baptized have right to church communion in all the acts which their age and understanding makes them capable of : and it is church-tyranny to refuse such as shew this title , till they are openly proved to forfeit it , by impenitency in gross sin after publick admonition , and due means . this is the truth , and the method of christs discipline , and the rule of our communion . 9. by superstitious placing their religion in indifferent and undertermined things , and laying a greater stress on the words of prayer , than there is cause . overvaluing their several outward forms , expressions and orders , in the worshipping of god : when instead of provoking each other to faith and fervency to love and to good works , they place more of godliness in words and circumstances ( which god hath certainly left free to every mans conscience ) than god doth place in them : and one thinks that he is irregular , that prayeth without a set form , and another that he is ungodly , that prayeth not by the spirit , who useth a set form ; when both do but speak their own superstition , and make laws and rules which god never made . superstition and our own additions in religion ( even in those that cry out much against it ) is the occasion of most of our church-divisions . one side supposeth every disorder or unfit expression in free prayer to be a greater fault than indeed it is : and that its unlawful therefore to joyn with a church that hath no set forms : another party supposeth the forms in the church lyturgy to be worse than they are ; and that it is unlawful to joyn in them , or to receive the lords supper when they are used . when as god hath neither tyed us to set forms , nor from them ; save only as unsuitableness to any particular persons may make one less edifying than the other : and both free prayers , and set forms , studied prayers , and sudden prayers , are all the work of man , ( as to mans part ) : and therefore they must needs be imperfect and faulty as man is : and yet in both we may pray by the spirit , even with the holy and fervent desires which the spirit exciteth in us : and the spirit may ordinarily be a spirit of supplication in us , and help our infirmities , in the one way and in the other : and therefore , though i will not equall them ( for i prefer some mens free praying before any forms , and i prefer the common prayers before some mens free prayers ) yet i may say , that i will neither assent and consent to every word in the one , nor in the other , no not of any man that ever i heard : and yet i will not take it for unlawful to joyn with church , or family , or person in the one , or in the other : yea , upon long experience , if i had fully my own choice and liberty , i would use free prayer one part of the day ( or one day ) and a well composed form another part , because i see commodities by both , and such inconveniences of either way alone , as are , if possible to be avoided . but when the mind hath received a prejudice against either way , by education , custom , or former distastes , no reason how clear soever will overcome it , till age and experience do mellow green and sowre spirits , and teach them to judge of things soberly and impartially , not as others judge of them , but as indeed they are . 10. and men are much furthered in the way of separation , by forgetting what good even hypocrites themselves , may receive by their station in the visible church : and that it is not for nothing that the great master of the church , hath so ordered the terms of admission ( upon meer profession of consent to the baptismal covenant ) and of exclusion ( upon proved impenitency in gross sin after sufficient admonition and patience ) as that multitudes of bad men ever have been and will be in the visible church : though the regular station that such persons should choose , till they come up to sincere consent , is the place of catechumens , if they were not baptized in infancy , and the place of penitents if they were , yet supposing that they intrude further by a false profession , yet god hath provided great advantages , in church communion for their good , and secured the innocent from imputation of sin , by reason of their presence . 11. and men are induced to separation by forgetting , how tender christ is of the weakest of his members , that are sincere , and that he had rather many hypocrites were received , than one true christian shut out : for he hath a day at hand , in which he will separate the tares from the wheat , and will take out of his kingdom all things that offend , and them that work iniquity . and they consider not how impossible it is , to shut out all hypocrites , and not to shut out many weak ones that are sincere . 12. and it much wrongeth them that they forget what a mercy it is , that christ hath not made the power of the pastors or church to be arbitrary , in admissions or exclusions ; but hath tyed them up to certain terms , and prescribed to them whom to receive or reject : and that they consider not , what confusions otherwise would be brought into the church , and what church-tyranny men would exercise ; and how the difference of mens judgements , interests , temptations and passions , would make almost as many sorts of churches , as there are individual governours and churches . and one would make one measure , and another another measure of their communion . 13. and it greatly wrongeth such men that they never had right apprehensions of the nature and great necessity of vanity among believers , and the churches of christ . they cry out truth must not be sold for peace , when they neither know aright what is truth or peace . but by truth they mean their own doubtful opinions , and by peace they mean their own quietness with men . we easily confess , that as peace signifieth our freedom from persecution or sufferings , or from the reproach of men , the least holy truth is to be preferred before it , and more tenaciously held than it : but if by peace , they mean the unity and concord of believers , or of the church of god , they speak dangerously , and suppose a pernicious falshood , that gods truth , and such peace or concord , may at any time be separated : and it is no wiselier spoken , than if they had said , a mans eye-sight or health is to be preferred before the union of his soul and body , or before the concord of head and heart , or before the conjunction of his members . when as non cutis nulla est affectio . destroy the subject , and you destroy the accidents . without union of parts , the church is no church ; dividing it , is destroying it . a house or kingdom divided , cannot stand . and when it is no church , it hath no truth as a church , n●r any thing that dividers did contend for . an integral member may rather be cut off , than the whole should perish : but what member will separate it self from the b●dy ? or who but a murderer will on pretence of curing , be a divider and dissolver ? 14. and it wrongeth these christians much that they look on the narrow space of the churches about them , and forget the state of almost all christs churches in the whole world , which are in a 〈◊〉 worse condition than our parish churches are : which though it should draw no man to like the least imperfection in them or in himself , nor to neglect any true reforming duty , yet would it make a tender christian rather tremblingly to return to vniversal due communion , than to dare to separate from almost all christs visible body upon earth . 15. and gazing all upon one side , doth make men forget , how heinous an injury it is to christ , to rob him of the greatest part of his churches , and to say , that they are none of his : when they could easily perceive that it would not be well taken by the king , if they should say , that he is king of no more , but three or four villages in the land : and he that can take four parts , yea , nineteen parts of christs church from him to day , may take away the fifth or the twentieth to morrow , and so may turn infidels , and deny christ to be christ : for no kingdom , no king. 16. and they forget that as the body must have its due magnitude , as well as its comely scite of parts ; so we must be zealous for the greatness , as well as the purity , the extensive as well as the intensive growth of the church . and if christs flock be little , they dishonour it that would make it tenfold less than indeed it is ; jer. 30. 19. and out of them shall proceed thanksgiving , and the voice of them that make merry : and i will multiply them , and they shall not be few , and i will glorifie them , and they shall not be small . 17. and the passion that is kindled in men by their sufferings , is very strong in conquering their judgements ; so that too few in the whole world are found so sober , as not to go too far from those they suffer by ; unless it be timerous or temporizing complyers , that yield to escape their further suffering . 18. and men are strangely forgetful of the experiences of themselves and others : and when god hath let loose the spirit of division to the confusions both of state and churches , and to the ruining of true reformation , and to the woful and scandalous dissolution of many particular churches , where it hath come , yet will not men understand or remember , but see as if they did not see . holland , england , new england give them loud and lamentable warnings , and yet they will not hear . 19. and they that know what man is indeed , will not deny , but that in very many , there is something of that pride ( which some call spiritual , but is too carnal ) in mens inclination to separation . he that knoweth how excellent a thing it is to be wise , and holy , and happy , is oft tempted to be desirous that his own excellency should appear , and not be hid by his joyning with such as are taken for ignorant common men ; and so would stand further from the common sort of visible christians , than god would have him . and also some persons , who should find the evidences of gods favour and acceptance in the life of faith , and love , and holiness , do lamentably quiet themselves instead of these , with being members of such strict societies , as profess even a separating conspicuous holiness . 20. lastly , but one of the greatest snares of all is , that men cannot bear the censures of those that are inclined to separation . and therefore rather than be accounted and called by them formalists , temporizers , carnal , or such like , they will do as they do , and turn their zeal into partial and unjust censures , of the persons , words , and outward modes and circumstances of worship , of those that they dissent from . these and such other causes of dividing inclinations , i did ( upon the special necessities of the churches , and some of my own acquaintance ) lay open in a book called the cure of church divisions ; which made a great noise , ( as water powred upon the flames ) ; but though some upon misunderstanding , and some by guilt and interest muttered much against it , i never had a word against it privately or publickly in writing , by way of confutation of any thing in it , save only a libell of one that now calleth himself edward bagshaw , a man that i am not acquainted with , though i have seen and spoken with him , and though to my trouble , when his fancy led him that way , he unskilfully wrote for me against the bishop then of worcester . i greatly rejoyce that in these times of tryal , so few of the non-conformable ministers are by sufferings and passions hurried into the dividing extream . if injuries or interest would excuse any sin , i think there are few ministers in england , who have more inducements to the angry separating way than i have . but shall i therefore wrong the truth and church of god , and my own and others souls ! god forbid . brethren , it is none of my meaning to disoblige you from your ancient faithful ministers . nor yet to perswade you to hear any insufficient or intolerable man ; much less to commit your souls to the pastoral care of such a person : nor yet to prefer a worse before a better , who may upon lawful terms be enjoyed . but the things that i perswade you to , are these : 1. not to entertain false uncharitable dividing principles in your minds , which will break the peace of all societies . 2. if you differ about infant baptism , indepencie , common prayer or such like , that yet you will not think your differences oblige you to deny communion to all you differ from . 3. that if you are so sinfully partial , that you cannot joyn in the same churches , you would yet live charitably and peaceably in several churches . 4. that you would not say any church of christ is no church , because it is not of your form or mode . 5. that you would not say , that communion with any church is unlawful , because their external worshipping form , is not of your fashion , or before you have proved what you say . my advice is calculated to the vnion and peace of all true churches , and not those of one form or mode alone . and i note it as a considerable providence of god , that i am drawn in to defend the principles of love and concord in these trying times , against such an adversary as mr. bagshaw is . it hath of late been gods way to let us know the evil of principles by their effects on the men that we have had to do with : as malignant principles would not have been sufficiently distasted by us , if they had not shewed themselves in malignant practices ; so dividing principles had never been sufficiently known in england , if they had not ruined a reformation , silenced so many hundred ministers , and laid us in the dirt , as they have done . and if the cause of dividers must be judged of by the defenders , i advise you to consider of these things following . 1. how many notorious false doctrines he hath delivered ? 2. how many other notorious crimes in two libells he hath committed ? in special let every sober person judge , whether ignorance , temerity , pride and high self-conceitedness with malignant unconcealed calumny do not only defile , but even constitute or make up his books ? 3. what bitter enmity is here exprest against the principles of love , and vnity , and concord , and peace , and sobriety it self ? 4. how many score notorious untruths he shamelesly publisheth in these two libells ? 5. how much he fighteth against repentance , and so with gross impenitency aggravateth all his crimes ? 6. how like his own spirit is to that which he accounteth the spirit of imposition and persecution ? and how vehement he is against the same persons as such are , and as impudently slandereth them , and as bitterly and professedly designeth to make them odious ( but he that professeth to make another odious , thereby disableth himself from doing it . ) 7. whether ever in all your lives , you saw two libells written against another , which do not only perform , but even attempt so little , and next to nothing at all , to give any answer to the books he writes against . read mine and read his , and i defie any thing but madness it self , or blind partiality or wickedness , to make any man think that he hath confuted what i have written . i confess i admire at the mans insensibility , that doth not perceive , how much he hath done , by pretending an answer , and giving none , or worse than none , to make his cause or himself contemptible . can any man in his wits think , that he hath confuted the principles of concord which i laid down in my directions . 8. whether such a man as this do shew himself wiser than dod , hildersham , ames , baine , and all the old non-conformists according to the importance of his boast ? or whether he give us cause to believe that god hath revealed more to him than to them , while he himself can no better reveal it unto others ? 9. when i had set down at least thirty three vntruths which he deliberately dared to write and publish , did you ever read such a pittiful vindication ? he hath not spoken to any considerable number of them : and of those few that he speaketh to , try if you can find any one of which he cleareth himself ? and yet he professeth not repentance for any one of them ? nay , to open his impenitency , he professeth falsly that i cannot justly charge him with any of them ; and addeth in the last libell forty eight palpable vntruths more ? just like one that being accused of swearing , should forty eight times swear that he never sware . 10. how far he proceedeth in his separation , and how far he would draw poor unstable souls ? it is not only from the conformists and the parish churches that he would have you separate , and all in the whole world that are worse than they ; but also from all the non-conformists in england , that are not better than i : as his concluding advertisement fully telleth you . all of my mind and measure are unworthy of the communion of this humble , tender , credible man. 11. what means is there left in the world to exempt a man from the malignant calumnies of this judge of the churches ? when in one sentence he telleth you , how much i have written against the bishops , and in another that i am in the same condemnation with him , and yet in another , that i dare look no truth in the face , that bringeth suffering ; when he talks of one point that all christians are agreed in , and directly bringeth none . and when he chargeth me with atheistical arguing against the divine and self-evidencing authority of the scripture , and therefore to be rejected of all , as one of the worst sort of hereticks , that under the notion of being a christian and a protestant , doth with his utmost industry and cunning , labour to overthrow our foundation . ] when i know of no one man living in this age , that hath written so much ( i say not , so well ) for the things in question ( scripture and christianity ) as i have done . may not this man as modestly charge bishop downame to be a papist , that hath written so much to prove the pope to be antichrist ? or say any thing else that he hath list to say ? 12. doth he not fix upon you by such libells as these , an odious reproach ? as if he would perswade the world , that you that he writeth to , are so partial , so blind , so false to truth , and to your own souls , and such pernicious enemies to peace , as that you will receive that which is thus falsly said to you , without ever reading what is said on the other side , or against all the evidence that contradicteth it , and will believe all these visible untruths of his , without any proof , upon the bare report of so rash a man. 13. whether following such men and wayes as this , is not the likeliest way in the world , not only to increase the reproach of the non-conformists , and make them all thought of , as we do of the quakers , and so to continue severities against them as a company of furious unsociable persons ; but also to harden men into a contempt of religion it self . 14. doth not god permit such a champion of the cause of division , thus criminally to miscarry , that you may see that you are not better than those you separate from ? you blame them for subscribing erroneously or falsly ; and which of them hath put thirty three , and forty eight visible untruths deliberatly in print , and impenitently stands in them as your champion hath done ? doth not this shew you , that you are not so good , but that the churches of godly pastors are as worthy of your communion , as you are of theirs ? if one should admonish one of your church-members of one single deliberate avowed lye , would you not call him to repentance ? and will you believe this man and follow him upon his bare word , who hath published eighty such falshoods ? yet i am not one that think he loveth a lye , because it is a lye ; but one that is thus guilty through proud overvaluing his own unfurnished understanding , and through an extraordinary rashness and want of tenderness of conscience . you have heretofore had better guides , and you have better still : ( i never met with two ministers that approve his libell , nor any but mr. browne alone ) you have a more peaceable rule ; and if you are christians indeed , you have a peaceable spirit , and a saviour , who is the prince of peace ( who hath prayed that all his disciples may be one , john 17. 21. ) and a god who is the god of peace . follow therefore the wisdom that is both pure and peaceable , and not that from beneath , which is earthly , sensual and devilish , and worketh by envious zeal and strife , unto confusion and every evil work , jam. 3. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. to mr. edward bagshaw . brother , it is not a little troublesome to me , and will be troublesome to many peaceable readers , both that these writings should pass between us , and that i should mention your faults so plainly as i do . but as i began not with you , so i know not how to let you talk on , without betraying the peace of the church , the credit of the non-conformists ( who are by your self obliged to disown you ) and the souls of the weak brethren , for whom christ dyed . and i am constrained plainly to name your faults ; 1. because truth consisteth in speaking of things as they are . 2. and because my business is now to summon you to repentance , to which end the opening of your sin is necessary . 3. and because these following scriptures are my ground , and your own word seem to me to charge it on me as my necessary duty , upon dreadful penalties . the scriptures that i set before me are lev. 19. 17. after mentioned , rom. 16 , 17. mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them . jam. 3. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. but if ye have bitter envying ( or zeal ) and strife in your hearts , glory not , and lye not against the truth : this wisdom descendeth not from above , but is earthly , sensual , devilish . for where envying , ( zeal ) and strife is , there is confusion and every evil work , &c. 1 cor. 1. 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. & 3. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. john 17. 21 , 22. rom. 14. & 15. john 8. 44. when he speaketh a lye , he speaketh of his own ; for he is a lyer and the father of it . rev. 21. 8. all lyers shall have their part , &c. & 22. 15. whosoever loveth and maketh a lye . psal . 15. 2 , 3. that speaketh the truth , in his heart , backbiteth not with his tongue , nor doth evil to his neighbour , nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour . 3 john 9 , 10. i wrote unto the church : but diotrephes who loveth to have the preheminence among them , receiveth us not : wherefore if i come , i will remember his deeds which he doth , prating against us with malicious words : and not content therewith , neither doth he himself receive the brethren , and forbiddeth them that would , and casteth them out of the church : gal. 2. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14. i withstood him to the face , because he was to be blamed . for — he withdrew and separated himself , fearing them which were of the circumcision ; and the other jews dissembled likewise with him ; insomuch that barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation . but when i saw that they walked not uprightly , &c. — tit. 3. 10 , 11. a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition , reject — your own doctrine is as followeth : pag. 1. it will be a favour if you look upon me as one that neither desires , ( nor if you believe what your self have writ ) deserves such expressions of your familiarity . pag. 2. i hope you are not to learn , that every untruth is a lye — pag. 11 , 12. there being little difference in the sight of god , between the persecuting of brethren our selves , and by not sharply reproving it , seeming to approve of it in others . and i hope you will say as much against approveing your own sin as other mens . pag. 14. all are commanded to turn aside from them — a church which after admonition and discovery of offenders , will not use her authority in casting them out , doth partake of their sins , and becomes as guilty as they , and therein as unworthy of communion . i cite gods word as my rule of speaking , and yours as that which i may suppose sheweth what you expect to hear . all that i now desire of you is , to bring your self to some impartiality in reviewing the two libells which you have written ; and if you cannot , yet condescend to hear the judgement of some understanding impartial persons who have seriously perused your writings and mine : and hate not repentance , and set not your self against it , and justifie not all the crimes , false doctrines , and eighty untruths , which your two libells do contain . and beg of god more judgement , humility , meekness , considerateness and tenderness of conscience : and abuse no longer the souls of weak christians , with such false doctrine , which you defend no better than i have done . i rest a desirer of your repentance and sobriety , richard baxter . m. 4. ( jun. ) d. 9. 1671. a second admonition to mr. edward bagshaw written in some hope of curing his impenitence ; or at least of saving some of those in london , northamptonshire , and other counties , whom he hath laboured to pervert , by false doctrine and false-reports ; which tend to destroy , 1. the soundness of their judgements by dangerous error , 2. their christian love , and unity , by love-killing principles and divisions : 3. and their christian practice , by sinful censures of , and separations from the far greatest part of the vniversal visible church of christ , and communion of saints , and the publick worship of god ; and consequently to the destruction of their own souls , and of the churches . to mr. edward bagshaw . having told you in my first admonition p. 145. that if you write any more at the rates you did , i should give you the last word , as not intending to confute you , &c. i found my self in a streight when i read your second — about my duty : though you trampled admonition under your feet , and turn again and all to rend me , i ought not to take you for a swine or dog , and give you up as wholly hopeless , till there is no remedy : being under the command , lev. 19. 17. thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart , thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour and not suffer sin upon him ! and charity forbiddeth me to desert all those souls whom you endeavour to seduce , by denying them necessary information , and silently to suffer them to live in all the sins in which you would ensnare them . and yet i have been chidden by so many for answering your last writing , as containing such palpable scurrility , impertinency and error , that i am afraid of wasting my time , which i might better employ ; and preferring a lesser matter before a greater : and i expect you should charge me as a breaker of my promise : but of that you have your self discharged me , it being conditional [ if you write at the rates you did , &c. ] and but the expression of my [ intentions ] which i may well alter , when your alteration calleth for it : for though you neither express repentance , nor amend the faults , of which i did admonish you , yet you here attempt such a plea for separation , as you did not in your former writing , where you seemed to expect that your bare assertions should be believed ; but now you pretend to more argumentation : which therefore i shall take into consideration . but still i perceive the unavoidable streights into which you cast me in the performance : if i mention your error and sin , you will think that i make you odious , and trample upon your honour , and cause your persecution , and strengthen your adversaries : and if i silence them all , i shall leave you under sin , which is worse than persecution , and i shall neglect the souls of others , and i shall betray the honour of religion , as if its followers were but such as you , and as if our cause were guilty of all the error and sin which you maintain . and if you are to be believed if i do not reprove you , i shall but little differ from you : for you say of another case , pag. 11 , 12. [ there being but little difference in the sight of god , &c. ] and what should i do with you , when you cast me into such a streight ? why this i take to be my duty 1. impartially first to consider of all the evil which you charge upon my self , that i may not be guilty of the sin of the times , which i am constrained to lament in others , that is , an obstinate enmity to repentance ; nor yet unthankfully neglect any help that god shall any way vouchsafe me , for the discovery of my sin . 2. and then so to acquaint you with your errors and miscarriages , as may tend , 1. to your repentance ; 2. and to other mens preservation ; 3. and to vindicate religion , and the faithful afflicted servants of christ , against the unjust accusation of those , who would make the world believe that your case is theirs , and that their principles and practices are such as yours . 4. and in all to preserve that just esteem and love which i owe you , as one that i think yet upright in the main . i love your zeal for that which you take to be the truth : i greatly love your fortitude of mind , and undaumedness under sufferings , as such ; and being so much above the fear of man : and i think it a thousand pitties that you have not 1. a better cause , 2. a humbler mind , and better acquaintance with your self , 3. a sounder and clearer judgement ; 4. more universal charity ; 5. more sense of the mischiefs of sinful divisions : 6. and especially more sobriety and caution , and less teme●●ty and heedlesness of what you read , and what you write ; and more tenderness of conscience to avoid untruths ; 7. and more impartiality , to see that evil in your self , and those of your opinion , which you can aggravate in those by whom you suffer ; and 8. lastly , that you have not less enmity to repentance , and that you take an invitation to repentance to be a malicious reproach , and will not understand why god recordeth his servants sins , nor will consider how much better it is that the reproach of sin , do fall upon us , than upon our religion , or the church of god ; and that we our selves confess our sins , than that our adversaries upbraid us with impenitent justifying them . and while you are so notoriously wanting in all these things , the greater noise your sufferings make , the more injurious you will be to the truth , and to your brethren , and the greater hardning to others : and satan will not only use you to the corrupting of well-meaning peoples minds , and to the suppression of truth , and love , and concord , but also to the reproach of suffering it self : and while you cry out of persecution , you will prove a notable cause of all our defamations and afflictions , and a great temptation to the actors to justifie what they do . and now , on these terms , i shall consider of your words , and help you better to understand your self . sect. 1. e. b. it will be a favour if i look on you as one that desireth not any such expressions of familiarity , ( as to be called ) brother . ] reply . you may suppress your own charity , but not mine : you may call me what you please ; but i will call you what i think my duty requireth me to do : ( as optatus initio tells the donatist . ) my warrant is ubi supra , lev. 19. 17. & 1 cor. 5. 11. if any man that is called a brother be — a railer — and 2 thess . 3. 14 , 15. if any man obey not our word by this epistle , note that man , and have no company with him , that he may be ashamed : yet count him not as an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . but it is the spirit or tendency of your doctrine and principles , to renounce fraternity with all of christs church , that are not liker to your self than i am . pag. 2. you tell me , that i shew how much i am for a middle way , neither hot nor cold , for a luke warm and neutral indifferency . ] reply . i take your warming in good part : i daily beg of god , that the decays of my natural spirits and fervour by frigid age and weakness , may not abate the true fervour of my soul ; much less any abatement of the estimation of holy truth , the search of which hath been the unwearied business , the ( almost ) uninterrupted pleasure of my life . and specially that my love to god , and heaven , and holiness may not decay , which alas , was wofully cold , and little at the best . but i confess to you , that i am for a middle way between fury and stupidity , pride and baseness , superstition and profaness , the love of anarchy and tyranny , and many such like pernicious extreams . : and you remember me of the folly of my youthful ignorance , in which i presently suspected any man of tepidity and carnal indifferency , who wrote for reconciliation of contenders , and for a middle conciliatory way , ( such as about arminianism , pet. molinaeus , vsher , vossius , davenant , hall , preston , fenner , crocius , martinius , camero , &c. and so in other points . o lord forgive the sins of my ignorant unexperienced age . sect. 2. e b. i hope you are not to learn that every untruth is a lye . r. e. i suppose your citation of john 1. 62. 2. 21. is mis-printed for 1 john 1. 6. & 2 21. the first of which saith — if we say that we have no fellowship with him , and walk in darkness , we lie and do not the truth . the other saith , that [ no lie is of the truth . ] but do either of these say , that every untruth is a lie . is it not enough to hold 1. that every designed untruth which is positively voluntary is a lie : 2. and that every rash and carelesly uttered untruth , which is privatively voluntary ( that is , where the will omitteth its office ) is a lie ? sure , brother , these many will be heavy enough upon you : you need not contend by false doctrine , for any more . and supposing that you are not to learn how singular you are in this assertion , is it any sign of your humility , to think that so few divines before you ( who so little avoid it ) did know what a lie is ? if i had called you a wise , a calm , a sober and charitable man , when i had no evidence of the contrary , how can you prove that this had been a lie ? you tell us anon that prophets , nathan , samuel , and good men have been mistaken ? and did those prophets lie ? you deny not that your brother powel was mistaken ? and yet you would not have it said that he lied ? let this go therefore for your first false doctrine , when you say that every untruth is a lie . sect. 3. e. b : p. 2. you are not afraid to dethrone the scripture from being a perfect rule par. 1. p. 99. 100 , 101. r. b. though all untruth be not a lye , i cannot say , that this is none . i have no such word or sense . i maintain the scripture to be a perfect rule , so far as it is a rule : but so far as it is no rule , it is no perfect rule . i do there maintain that it is not a particular rule , for a watchmaker , a carpenter , a physicion , a mathematician , a musicion , &c. to do their work by : nor what metre or tune to sing a psalm in , and such like ; but only a general rule for these . and because you charge this on me as my error , if i can understand you , this is your second false doctrine implyed , that scripture is a particular rule , for the things which i there exclude ; and a third false doctrine implyed , that if it were not so , it were not a perfect rule . for your words have no sense which i can discern , if this be not the sense of them [ whosoever denyeth the scripture to be a particular rule for the things instanced by r. b. p. 99 , 100 , 101. doth dethrone the scripture from being a perfect rule . but so doth r. b. ergo your major includeth the two fore-mentioned false doctrines . sect. 4. e. b. the whole design of your book was to make your brethren , that have not your latitude , and cannot reach the subtilty of your distinctions , odi●us , &c. r. b. here is a former falshood justified , and doubled or increased ; 1. it is false that this was any design of my book . 2. but that it was [ the whole design ] what man of sobriety that ever read it could imagine . 3. yea , and that these brethren that i designed to make odious , were such as have not my latitude and cannot reach the subtilty of my distinctions . sect. 5. e. b. many hundreds of sober , impartial , and unbyassed persons have carefully read your book as well as my self , and they all make the same judgement of it . r. b. i will not number this with your bare falshoods : whether many hundreds have told you their judgement of it , who have read it , i know not : but contradictories cannot be true on both parts . it is a slander therefore of so many hundred such persons which you utter : for if they were indeed sober , impartial , unbyassed persons , and carefully read the book , it is scarce , or not at all possible , but indeed a contradiction , that they should judge it [ the whole design to make my brethren odious that — cannot reach the subtilty of my distinctions . ] sect. 6. e. b. p. 3. you call separation a crying sin , nay the crying sin : and you scruple not to insinuate that all the judgements , which in this nation we do either feel or fear , were to be charged on separation , as the principal procuring cause . ] r. b. here is your third falshood in matter of fact : there is not a word in the places ( nor any where else in all my writings , if i know what i have written ) that chargeth all this on separation , as the principal procuring cause : but the contrary in the comparison is oft and plainly asserted , and greater causes oft assigned : nay , that which ( without the comparison ) i did charge on separation , was in these words conjunct [ our uncharitable divisions , alienations , and separations are a crying sin ] and not of separation by it self , or alone . 2. and by your opposition thereto , you seem plainly to deny the sinfulness of the said [ vncharitable divisions , alienations , and separations : ] which is a crime of heinous aggravation , to be committed and impenitently stood in , at that very time , when uncharitable divisions have broken us so much in pieces , and brought us all so low , and silenced so many ministers , and done that which our eyes have seen ? o dreadful obdurateness ! that after twenty years such doleful experience , we will not confess the sinfulness of our divisions ? but will suffer , and be silenced , and ruined , and die , and yet not acknowledge that so unnatural and pernicious a thing is a sin ? when the world rings of it ? when we lye weltring in its sad effects , that yet we are justifying the cause . let not any presume to go on in sin , with a purpose to repent hereafter , when it is so hard a thing , to make men that think us unworthy of their communion , to repent of the very sin which they suffer by , and that in the very heat and continuance of their sufferings . sect. 7. e. b. p. 3. what can make your brethren more odious , and more expose them to the peoples fury , and to the rulers revenge , than thus to make them the causes of the na●ions calamity ? r. b. 1. and is there not sin among us , even among us also ? and are the sins of such as we , no causes of our publick calamities ? and would you thus leave us all desperate in impenitency ? may not we repent ? and must we not repent , if we will be forgiven ? when we are freed from the condition of the law of works , is repentance become so intollerable and hard a condition ? if we repent not , shall we not all perish , luke 13. 3 , 5. do angels rejoice at a sinners repentance ; and shall we take him for their enemy , that calls them to it ? 2. is not impenitency a greater reproach to us , in the eyes of those by whom we suffer , than our repentance would be ? and doth it not exasparate them to see men justifie unquestionable sin ? 3. what if god record even good mens sins , and tell a david what evil they should bring upon his house ? and what a plague his numbring the people brought on his kingdom ; and so of others ? doth he hereby expose them to be odious ? no , but by repentance , would make them amiable . 4. is not sin odious whereever it is found ? and god is no respecter of persons ? must we not loath our selves for it ? it is he that sinneth , that maketh himself odious ; and he that calleth him to repentance , would take away his odiousness ( though the sin of a penitent manasseh may cause the captivity . ) and he that justifieth it , and fathereth it on christ , and the spirit , and religion , would make christ , and the spirit , and religion , and the church odious , lest he should be known to be so himself . 5. and do not most good ministers and people publickly confess to god , that our own sins have been the causes of our calamities ? read mr. pool's vox clamantis , and mr. stukeley's book , and judge accordingly of others ? and do you think that they thereby expose good people to the magistrates hatred or revenge ? or dare you charge them with hypocrisie , as if they spake not as they thought ? alas man , what dayes of humiliation do you use to keep , for the sins and miseries of the land ? do you only confess your adversaries sins ? how easily can some men repent , if it were other mens only that they were to repent of , ( if the confessing of such might be called repenting . ) adeo familiare est omnia sibi remittere , nihil aliis , inquit patercul . sect. 8. e. b. p. 3. if in separating — our sin is so great , that the place where we live cannot be held innocent , but must suffer from the hand of god for our sakes , we are certainly a people who deserve to be hated of all , and the confiscations , imprisonments and deaths , which some of us have already felt , are no longer to be bewailed and grieved for as persecutions of the innocent , but rather to be rejoyced and gloried in as due punishments — r. b. such stuff may go down with those that will swallow all that seems to lift them up . but 1. it was not separation from forms of worship only or chiefly that i spake of . 2. none of us are absolutely innocent , but only comparatively , and secundum quid . 3. here are two false doctrines more implyed . the first is , that they that so sin as is here described , deserve to be hated of all : for though secundum quid so far as we are sinners we are loathsome , and deserve to be hated , yet the same person being in christ and pardoned , and having the spirit and image of god , is amiable : and therefore the phrase must follow that which is predominant in them : and according either to fitness or custom of speech , you cannot without falshood say , that they deserve to be hated of all ; whom all are commanded specially to love. did david deserve to be hated of all , because his numbring the people brought the plague ? yea , or aaron that made the golden calf ? do you consider what you write ? how that thus you make all or most , or very many of gods servants , such as deserve to be hated of all ? for how few are they who do not so sin , as that [ the place where they live cannot be held innocent , but must suffer from the hand of god for their sakes . ] for chastisements are threatned to them , and to the societies that they defile ? and they are chastned of god , that they may not be condemned with the world . and how few can say , the place where i live is not the less innocent for me , nor suffereth ever the more for me ? 2. and it is false doctrine that imprisonments and death are due to all such : what kind of politicks would you write ? must every man be imprisoned and put to death ( who makes the place not innocent where he liveth , and hath a hand in bringing down judgements on the land ? god afflicteth for what sin he please : but judges must not hang men , for all that god afflicteth the land for . but , alas , that you should reason for impenitency ! sect. 9. e. b. p. 3. [ your next attempt is to free your self from being looked upon as an earnest and active instrument in the late wars . ] r. b. this is another visible falshood in matter of fact : alas brother , that you should no more heed what you read or write ? the question that i spake to was only [ whether i was as guilty in stirring up and fomenting that war as any one whatsoever ? ] and is this comparative question any kin to that which you now falsly father on me ? sect. 10. e. b. p. 4. i must confess your bold and resolute disclaiming any activeness in that war , did so much stagger me — r. b. this is yet more than the former : alas , have you cast off all heed what you say , and all common modesty in your reports ? where did i ever deny any activeness ? i argued thus : [ he that never medled with the war till long after it was raised ; that never shot , struck or hurt any man ; that never was officer or common-soldier , that never took commission to be chaplain of the garrison where two years of the war i did continue , but preached a lecture to them without any commission ; that never went into the field army , till after naisby fight , and then went thither by the solemn advice of an assembly of divines , ( many yet living ) twice assembled , and that upon an open profession to the committee , that my reason and business was in the apprehension of our common danger from the army , to discharge my own conscience in disswading as many of the souldiers as i could , from overturning the government of the state and church , which i was fully satisfied they intended , and that spent his time among them under their displeasure in such work ; i say , that he that did thus , was not so guilty of stirring up , and fomenting the war , as were those that first raised it , and those that were generals , commanders or souldiers , and as those that preached for it to the parliament , or as those that went on in the many following wars to the end . and is there any thing in all this , that saith , i was no way active in it ? my activity was principally in the city of coventry , which never saw an enemy while i was there : and it was in telling my opinion to others ; and twice going out with their souldiers to the siege of neighbour garrisons ; the rest i intimated to you before . and this is it that i meant in the words of the book which you recite . i askt you , whether the parliament , nor the chief speakers in it , nor the earl of essex , nor cromwell did no more ? with more to that purpose , which you give no answer to ; but defend your falshood with the addition of more such — falshoods , as if your design in writing , were practically to tell men , to what boldness in sinning mans vitiated nature will proceed , if it be not seasonably restrained . yea , as if you had quite forgotten what you were to prove , you say , sect. 11. e. b. p. 4. [ nor do i delight to expose you to the scorn of your enemies , and to the pitty of your friends , but i cannot help it . ] r. b. reader , because i have met with so strange a judge , i freely appeal to thee , if thou be but sober , who it is that by this mans writings , is here exposed to scorn and pitty ? whether i that so fully disproved his calumny [ that i was as guilty of stirring up and fomenting the war as any whatsoever , ] as that he hath not a word of sense to say in confirmation of it ; or he , that with such strange audaciousness addeth such falshoods as have not one syllable in all my writings to countenance them , and taketh up another charge against me , that i boldly and resolutely disclaim any activity , &c. ] did he trust that his readers would so far believe him , as rather to venture upon the scorn and pity which he would move them to , than once to examine my book , whether i wrote such a word or not ? i confess too many of his own spirit are like to do so ; and to believe what such a man as this reporteth , and think that he cannot be so impudent , as thus insultingly to say , that i say thus and thus , when i never wrote or spake such a word . but what if he attain this end , and be believed ? will it add to his innocence or felicity to have his many hundreds live in the sin of lying and calumny , and have no excuse for it , but mr. e. b. confidently wrote it . it s a wonder that corrupted nature should be so eager to have companions in sin , when it doth but tend to its own confusion ? sect. 12. e. b. p. 4. you — will not be beholding to an act of indempnity , but stand upon your innocency ? r. b. these are two more gross falshoods in matter of fact : 1. i am and wil be beholden to the act of indempnity , and write all this as under the protection of that act. 2. i did not , i do not stand upon my innocency , nor speak a word of such importance . sect. 13. e. b. nothing but your hopes that all is forgotten as well as pardoned , which is past , could ever embolden you to so peremptory denyal . r. b. this is another gross falshood : 1. it is spoken of my heart , which he knoweth not . 2. it is twice contradicted by his own pen. 1. he even now said , that i will not be beholden to an act of indempnity , and yet now he makes the hope of pardon received to embolden me . 2. he rebuketh me for the less seasonable retractation , of that which now he saith , not only that i hoped it was forgotten , but that nothing but that hope could embolden me , &c. why did i retract that which i thought forgotten ? could i think that book forgotten which remaineth visible ? which so many books accuse me of ? and one which he mentioneth and wrote against himself ? and which so many have publickly preached against , both formerly and of late ? could i think that part of my life forgotten , which all in the city of coventry , who thirty years ago were at years of discretion , may remember ? sect. 14. e. b. p. 4. you — ask me many malicious and ensnaring questions . r. b. that 's another falshood : they were not malicious : and another crime , to take him for malicious , who calleth sinners to necessary repentance , in a time of judgements , with words of love . sect. 15. e. b. in your writings you do highly approve of that which was the worst part of the change , the setting up of cromwell to he protector ? r. b. this also is notoriously false , as my writings which have no such word , and as those that i converst with know . indeed oliver cromwells first troop did under their officers hands invite me to be their pastor , which i refused as dissenting from the way into which i saw them entring , and not willing to leave my peaceable habitation at coventry , where i had the society of very many worthy ministers , and leisure for my studies , and was out of the heats of war : and after he expostulated with me himself for refusing his desires : but the very first hour that i went to his army , which was after naseby fight , he having notice of my words and intentions , from a friend of his of the coventry committee , i was entertained by the jeers of his most intimate friends , as one that came forsooth to reclaim the army , and save the kingdom , &c. and in a year and halfs time while i stayed among them , he would never once speak to me ; nor was i ever at his quarters , but kept at a distance as one of their adversaries , and those that i had interest in were discountenanced for my sake . and had not a sudden bleeding brought me very near to death , and separated me from the army , about the very day that they had their first open consultation , for the following treasonable changes which they made , i had hazarded my life upon their displeasure , in the contradicting them , and drawing off as many from them as i could , at the time when many did desert them : for by the advice of a second meeting of the ministers at coventry , i stayed with them for that very end , when i had peaceable opportunity to have returned to my former auditors ; and i did openly and boldly from that day until cromwells death , declare to those that i converst with , that i took him and his army to be guilty of most perfidious treason and rebeilion , and himself for an unquestionable usurper . and i never spake one word to the contrary . and being once before his death ( being at london ) invited to speak with him , i expostulated with him , by what right our government was changed , and how he could prove that all the people of england had lost their own right to their ancient government , and laboured to convince him that this change of his , and instrument of government ( which you charge me to approve ) was an unjust depriving the kingdom of their ancient and never forfeited right ; till i made him so angry , that it was time to say no more . but let us hear the proof of your accusation . sect. 16. e. b. p. 5. you — hugg and embrace the traytor . for you greatly commend that absurd tool , the humble petition and advice which was cromwells instruments of government ; and you say of it , a more excellent law hath not been made , for the happiness of england concerning parliaments , at least since the reformation . ] r. b. here is no proof at all of your false accusation , but the addition of two more falshoods , one exprest , and the other intimated . 1. that i hug'd and embraced the traytor . let the reader judge by what i have truly said . 2. that i greatly commend the instrument of government , as making the change and setting up of cromwell to be protector , when you could not easily choose but know , that he that will but open my book where the words are which you cite , may presently perceive your fraud and falshood , and that i say not a word to commend or approve of that instrument as such , or as making the change , or as setting up cromwell , or a protector , but only for this one thing , that it excluded atheists , blasphemers , anti-scripturists , cursers , swearers , drunkards , denyers of sacraments , prayer , magistracy and ministry , &c. from being parliament men . and is not this fallacy a dicto secundum quod ad dictum simpliciter , a notorious cheat , and falshood ? is this to approve the setting up of cromwell to be protector ? do you think by such a rate of reasoning as this is , to be accounted a wise & faithful teacher ? sect. 17. e. b. and of cromwell himself ( though he dyed in his sinful vsurpation , without manifesting any repentance ) you give this saint-like character in your preface to the army , the late protector did prudently , &c. r. b. 1. in that very preface against the army , this man might see such words as these , reprehending the armies rebellions and changes [ the fabrication of an instrument of laws without a parliament , and many other actions of these times , we doubt not but you will ere long repent of ] ( having instanced in their other changes before ) and many texts cited to them , in which their actions are condemned as heinous crimes . and [ the best governours in all the world that have the supremacy , have been resisted or deposed in england ] ( it was not then safe or necessary to name all . ) and [ a heathen persecuting nero must be obeyed , not only for wrath , but for conscience sake . ] and among the changes which i reprehended , are — [ next this we had the minor part of the house of commons in the exercise of soveraign power , the corrupt majority , as you call them , being left out : and by them we had the government changed , regality ( it was then death to say , the king ) and house of lords being cast off . next this we had nothing visible but a general and an army : next this we had all the whole constitution and liberties of the commonwealth at once subverted ; certain men being called by the name of a parliament , and the soveraign power pretended to be given them , that never were chosen by the people , but by we know not whom , ( such a fact as i never heard or read , that any king of england was guilty of , since parliaments were known . ) next this we had a protector governing according to an instrument made by — god knows who . after this we had a protector governing according to the humble petition and advice , ( and sworn to both ) : and now we are wheeled about again . ] reader , did this man read all this , and all the rest that in that book , especially the preface and conclusion , i then wrote ( in the bitterness of my soul ) against the army ? and did he believe himself , or could he possibly believe himself , that i approved of the setting up of cromwell to be protector ? if he do really believe himself , how unfit a man is this ( who understands not humane language ) to be the great refiner of the church , and to pretend to be wiser than the old non-conformists , &c. — if he do not believe himself , how unfit is he to separate from us for our sinfulness , or to be believed by the people whom he seduceth . 2. the words which he citeth , are only in a parenthesis , concerning which take this true information . 1. men used to distinguish between a tyrant quoad jus , and a tyrant quoad exercitium : and i ordinarily declared cromwell a tyrant quoad jus , that is , an usurper . 2. i never thought it laudable to belye any man whomsoever , nor to make his actions worse than they are . i did not dislike any good , because cromwell did it : i will not renounce god , or christ , or piety , because that cromwell professedly owned them . all that was good in him , was not made bad ( as to the nature of the thing ) because he did it . i never censured sulpitius severus , beda , or any other historians , for extolling the christian piety of maximus , while they call him a tyrant , as to title . i will not fall out with god , or scripture , or honesty , because that cromwell did speak well of them all . 3. note , that i spake only of his exercise of government , and not of his right , which i still declared to be null . — 4. and i instanced what his prudence was , ( before ) [ his prudent shunning of engagements , ] that he put not upon us any oaths or promises of allegiance to himself ; for he knew that we would refuse them , and thereby disturb his peace . it is known unquestionably that cromwell did many things that were ( in their nature ) very laudable . 5. and i mentioned this ( not as a praise of him , but ) as a conviction of the rebellious army , who thought they might take down all government , to set up themselves , whom they could easilier believe to be good and godly , than any others : and whereas they pretended , that it was for ungodliness , that they pulled down their superiours , i shewed them , that if they could not believe that the king was godly , nor the parliament godly , nor the minor part of the parliament ( called the rump ) godly , nor their little mock-parliament godly , yet they should not have so accused cromwell , whom they cryed up , and set him up themselves , and magnified so highly as they did . 6. and i meant this commendation of some of his actions , as comparative only , and better than theirs that pulled down that which themselves set up . 7. and yet , i thank you for calling me to review those words , and do hereby declare , that i do take them to be unmeet ( as spoken to the army that then had greatly provoked me to grief ) and that i unfeignedly repent of them ; that you may see i love not impenitence in my self , any more than in you : and i wish that they had not been written , being so lyable to ill effects ; and it being unmeet too much to praise even the good that a usurper doth , lest it take off the odium of his usurpation . sect. 18. e. b. sir could you say all this of him then , and do you think your partial friends can justifie you now , when you compare him to the tyrant maximus , and make him in effect to be nothing else , but a murderous and a bloody vsurper ? r. b. here is two falshoods , one expressed , and the other implyed . 1. that expressed is , that i make him in effect to be nothing else but a murderous , &c. when i never denyed any thing that was good in him ; but have publickly , and in print warned our lawful governours , that they tempt not the people to dislike them , by undoing any good which he did . 2. the implyed falshood , that i speak worse of him now , than i did heretofore . whereas the truth is , that i spake in the time of his own usurpation i am confident twenty times against him , for once that i have spoken since his death : not that i changed my opinion of him ; but that it is so cross to humane nature , to insult over even malefactors in their sufferings , especially when we suffer with them ( though by them ) and when their adversaries need no instigation , that i have not been able to judge it my duty , to speak of that very evil , which i and others suffer by : but have been hardly put to it these eleven years , between the thoughts of open disowning those sins of self-exalting vsurpers that have confounded us , and a lothness to encrease the sufferings of those that are underfoot . and this last prevailing , i have greatly by it displeased my superiours : and yet lest i should harden men in impenitency , having gently mentioned these crimes , it displeaseth such as are most obliged to repent . and how strangely doth this man despise his readers , while he again maketh it such a thing in me , to compare cromwell to maximus , whom still he loadeth with odious titles ? when in my first book i told him , p. 374. that maximus by the bishops was accounted a very religious christian , and pretended that the souldiers in england made him emperour against his will , and took part with the orthodox , and greatly honoured the bishops , and promoted religion , and got a great deal of love and honour : and in my defence i told him , that maximus is by historians made so good a man , of himself , that i more feared lest many would have made me a praiser of cromwell by the comparison . and i cited p. 142. the words of sulpitius severus of him , vir omni vitae merito praedicandus , si ei diadema non legitime , tumultuante milite impositum , repudiare , vel armis civilibus abstinere licuisset , &c. and the words of beda eccles . hist . l. 1. c. 9. maximus vir strenuus & probus atque augusto dignus nisi contra fidem per tyrannidem emersisset , &c. invitus propemodum ab exercitis creatus imperator , &c. but all this is not worthy the observation of this temerarious man , who still puts this among my unbecoming usage of cromwell , when if he had weighed what i wrote , i should have rather expected that he would have accused me again for overpraising him . sect. 19. e. b. as for your flattery to his son , which i also charged you with , and you ( with a strange , but not to your self unusual boldness ) do deny , &c. r. b. i gave a full answer to this , which no reply is given to : as if you were resolved to say what your list , and hear nothing that is said against it . as i told you that i never saw him , nor ever had to do with him , save that when i saw him take part against the turbulent sort of men , i took it to be seasonable by that dedication to perswade him to do good and not hurt . so i told you , that your words of [ dedicating a flattering book to him ] in common sense do distinguish between the book and the dedication : whether the dedication were flattery , i left to the reader of it to judge , and neither affirmed , nor denyed it : but only affirmed [ that there is not one syllable of his son in all the books , but only in the dedications . ] yet this man goeth on , and falsly chargeth me to deny that which i denyed not , and reciteth my words in the dedication to prove that the book as distinct from the dedication was flattery . sect. 20. e. b. deny if you can the consequence , that it became not you to blame the effects , who gave such rise and encouragement to the cause : i mean , unless you repent of the cause ; which it is evident you have not yet done : and if i may not be believed in this opinion of you , i doubt not but the bishop of worcester will ; who for this very thing did formerly accuse you of rebellion : from which charge , he that defended you then , leaveth you to acquit your self now as well as you can . r. b. 1. your [ i mean , unless you repent ] were none of your former words : when you say one thing , you think to solve and avoid the charge of falshood , by saying that you meant another . 2. what you say is evident , must needs be a calumny in you , 1. because you have no evidence of the negative being about my heart , which is to you unknown . 2. because your self did before twit me with retraction , &c. 3. and did you believe your self that the bishop of worcesters words so many years ago , are a proof that i repent not now ? 4. and are you yet insensible of your own partiality ; that then you blamed that in the bishop which now you can freely do your self ? let your followers mark what spirit you are of , if you are resolved not to know your self ? do you not see now that the man who took it for so great a crime in the bishop , can speak himself , 1. against the same man , 2. with the same accusation , 3. in the same manner . and is the same thing bad in the bishop , and good in you ? the matter is , it seemeth now to be your concernment to speak it : it s like you would then have separated from the bishop for it : and yet now it is no fault in you ? o what a blinding thing is selfish partiality ? and what reason hath any man to doubt , but if it were in your power , you would silence me as much as any bishop would ? and will you not yet see that which you are so angry with me for telling you ; viz. how much of the very same spirit is in church-dividers , with that which they most condemn in others : why then do you not separate from your selves ? 5. but , though you may think its like that you have me here in your snares , i shall make this benefit of it , that you may see i am not so great an enemy to repenting , as you declare your self to be . i do hereby freely profess , that i repent 1. of all that ever i thought , said , wrote , or did since i was born , against the peace of church or state ; against the king , his person , or authority , as supream in himself , or as derivative in any of his officers , magistrates , or any commissioned by him . 2. that i repent that i no more discouraged the spirit of pievish quarrelling with superiours and church-orders , and ( though i ever disliked and opposed it , yet ) that i sometimes did too much encourage such , as were of this temper , by speaking too sharply against those things which i thought to be church-corruptions ; and was too loth to displease the contentious , for fear of being uncapable of doing them good ( knowing the prophane to be much worse than they ) and meeting with too few religious persons , that were not too much pleased with such invectives . 3. and i do repent that i had not more impartially and diligently consulted with the best lawyers that were against the parliaments cause ( for i knew of no controversie in divinity about it , but in politicks and law ; ) and that i did not use all possible means of full acquaintance with the case . and that for a little while the authority of such writers as mr. rich. hooker lib. 1. eccles . polit. and bishop bilson , and other episcopal divines did too much sway my judgement toward the principles of popular power ; and seeing the parliament , episcopal , and erastian , and not hearing when the wars began of two presbyterians among them all , nor among all their lord lieutenants , generalls , major generalls , or colonells , till long after , i was the easilyer drawn to think that hookers political principles had been commonly received by all ; which i discerned soon after upon stricter enquiry , to be unsound , and have my self written a confutation of them , ready for the press many years ago . 4. and all the rest of my sin in this business , which i know not of particularly , i do implicitly and generally repent of ; and daily beg of god ( as i have done these twenty four years and more ) to give me a particular conviction of them , and not to suffer me to live or dye in any impenitence , but so far to acquaint me with all my great and publick sins , that i may openly confess them , and give others warning to avoid the like . this is the repentance , which upon your invitation i profess . if you quarrel with it as not instancing in particulars enow , i answer you , that as in the revocation of the book which you accuse , i thought it best to revoke the whole , ( though not as retracting all the doctrine of it , ) because if i had named the particular passages , some would have said i had mentioned too few , and some too many , and few would have been satisfied ; so is it in the present case . 6. as to your defence of me heretofore , 1. you know i never desired it of you , nor gave you thanks for it . for though you took my part , you understood not my cause , and therefore in the main deserted it . 2. i am not at all ambitious of such an advocate , 1. whose defence was then judged by all that i heard speak of it , to be commendable only for boldness , and a handsome epistolary style , having little of judgement or argumentative strength : 2. whose errors and faults will disgrace the cause which he defendeth : 3. who can blow hot and cold , and when his passion and erroneous interest requireth it , can change hands , and take up his adversaries work , and do the same thing in the main , which he accused . threaten me not with so desirable a desertion . as for the following insultations on supposition of the sufficiency of your snare , you see now that it is to glory in your shame . sect. 21. e. b. your mentioning with so much scorn the doctrine of the temporal reign of christ , which you in derision call the fifth monarchy way , and your endeavour to expose all that you think favour that opinion , is another evidence that you dare not look any truth in the face , which brings present danger with it : no though formerly you were as earnest and open an asserter of it as any — r. b. i see but five express falshoods in matter of fact in these few words : 1. one is , that it is christs temporal reign , which i call the fifth monarchy way ; when as i have no such words , nor meaning , but do my self believe christs temporal reign , even that now he is head over all things to his church , ephes . 1. 21 , 22. and that all power in heaven and earth is given him , mat. 28. 19. and all things are delivered into his hands , john 1● . 3. & 17. 2. that he hath power given him over all flesh ; and that to this end he dyed , rose and revived , that he might be lord of the dead and living : rom. 14. 9. and that he is king of kings , and lord of lords . but whether he will reign a thousand years in corporal visible presence on earth , i am not wise enough to know : but i am afraid of those opinions which draw down mens minds from looking for a treasure and reward in heaven , and tempt them to expect great things on earth . but in this age custome hath taught men to distinguish between those called fifth monarchy men , and meer millenaries . and by the former name , i mean such as they that assumed that name have been , whom i will not describe , lest i seem to imitate you , or offend you more than needs . 2. the second falshood is , that i mention the doctrine of christs temporal reign with scorn and derision ; when i only mentioned the way by which many of my acquaintance came to hold it , and the arguments which they used to defend it , with pitty and dissent , but not with scorn or derision ; much less that doctrine which he nameth . 3. the third falshood is , that i endeavour to expose all that i think favour that opinion ; when as some of my most intimate and honoured friends favour the millenary opinion : and i know how commonly it was owned by many of the ancients , and who doth not honour the name of mr. jos . mead , dr. twisse , mr. baily , mr. porter , &c. that did more than favour it ? and when did i ever endeavour to expose such men ? ( its like you mean , unto scorn , or some evil . ) 4. the fourth and notorious falshood is , that i dare not look any truth in the face , that brings present danger with it : when himself saith , that i am in the same condemnation with them ; which hath more truth in it in a full sense , than i will here open , lest i seem to dishnour my governours . and though i confess that my imprisonment was not so long and sharp as his , yet he can scarce be so ignorant as to imagine , that he loseth by his judgement , so much as i do by mine , quoad lucrum cessans , & damnum emergens . but his own pen doth publish him temerariously false : while he publisheth me to have been formerly as earnest and open an asserter as any of this opinion ; and doth not cite one syllable whereby i ever did revoke it : and i here as openly declare to him and all the world , that i am still of the same mind that i was in that point , and i am still ready to express my mind in the same words of mine which he reciteth . and while i openly own the same words which he accounteth so dangerous , and pretendeth that they assert as much as any ; judge whether he be a man to be believed , that saith i dare not look that truth in the face , which i openly own , or any other that brings present danger . 5. the next notorious falshood is , that formerly i was as earnest an asserter of it as any ; that is , of the fifth monarchy way . as any ? have i written for the millenary opinion , as earnestly and openly as mr. mead hath done ? have i — i will pass over late practices . nay did i ever write or speak one word for it ? but you shall presently see how he confuteth himself . but before i leave this , i must name two or three implyed falshoods in these words , besides the five expressed . 6. the one is , that the doctrine of the temporal reign of christ , brings present danger : when as all christians that i know of , do believe or hold his temporal reign : and as for his personai corporal visible reign , i never heard of any law against any that held it , nor any danger that any man incurred , much less any suffering for holding it . i am perswaded , if christ came personally and visibly to demand it , the king himself would yield up his crown to him . but i must confess to you , that if any man will call himself a believer of the fifth m●narchy , and thereupon will either deny the authority of rulers that are bad , ( even if they were infidels or persecutors ) or that they judge bad , or will deny to swear allegiance to the king , or will maintain that good men may seize upon the government because they are good ( or think themselves so ) and that because the saints shall judge the world , therefore they may depose bad governours , and take their places , and set up themselves under pretence of setting up christ ; i deny not but such as these may be in danger : and i am none of them that will own such opinions ▪ as knowing them to be no truths , but pernicious errors . 7. the other implyed falshood is , that i have changed my opinion , or the profession of it in this point in question . sect. 22. e. b. [ 〈◊〉 not many years ago you told us , that you were perfectly neutral , as to the point of christs visible and personal reign upon earth , and you did not know which way your judgement did most incline . but the theocratical policy , or divine common-wealth ( which is the unquestionable reign of christ upon earth ) this , all christians are agreed may justly be sought , and the temporal dignity of the saints which would undoubtedly much bless the world . ] r. b. 1. you misprint [ the temporal ] for [ that temporal , ] and so turn the predicate into the subject . 2. for [ as meerly neutral as in almost any point of so great moment , &c. ] you put [ perfectly neutral . ] 3. for [ i scarce can perceive which way , &c. ] you put [ you did not know . ] yet i number not these with your falshoods , but shew you , that you are so habituated to rashness , that you seldom seem to heed what you report . 2. and can you wink so hard , as not to see how here you openly declare your falsehood ? do you prove me as earnest and open an ●ss●rter as any , by citing words in which i profess to be ignorant , neutral and uncertain ? will your followers still believe such an open self-contradicting false accuser ? is neutrality and vncertainty the most earnest and open asserting of a doctrine ? if you say that you meant it of theocracy ; i answer , review your words ; you speak of christs temporal reign , and of the fifth monarchy way , and say [ as earnest and open as any . ] was mr. mead , and dr. twisse but neutral ? was mr. archer but neutral ? 3. i still approve of all the words of mine which you recite ? what mean you then to tell me of a change ? 4. and is it like that i take that to be dangerous , which i say that [ all christians are agreed of . ] 5. and do you not grosly wrong those rulers , from whom you think any danger or hurt will come to us for such doctrine as this ? who is there that will deny that a holy and righteous government in the hands of holy and righteous men , would be a blessing to the world ? and is to be vehemently desired , and sought by just and lawful means ? will any christian charge this doctrine to be erroneous ? when it is much of the sense of the three first and greatest petitions in the lords prayer ? and when all christians know , that tyranny , ignorance , and vngodliness are the three constituting materials of the devils kingdom in the world , and that tyranny is the grand maintainer of ignorance and vngodliness , while the heathen , and infidel , and popish princes of the earth , do keep away the clear and powerful preaching and publication of the truth ; and turks , persians , indians , and other mahometans , and all the heathens , do maintain deceivers , and cast out the gospel of jesus christ . sect. 23. e. b. p. 7. sir i have been very curious to enquire into the doctrine of the fifth monarchy , and most of my converse is with those that do in faith expect , and in patience wait for such a time ; and i never knew any of them , ( however they are mis-represented ) carry the notion further than you have already done . r. b. 1. and are you a man then that is fit to make such a stir to divide the churches , and to account your self wiser than all the old non-conformists in those matters , when all your curious enquiry into an open matter of fact ( what so many persons hold ) could do no more to save you from mistaking it ? if you never read what lrenaeus , lactantius and others of old held ? if you never read what is written by mr. mead , dr. twisse , mr. archer , &c. did you never read any pamphlets within these thirty years that say more ? did you , that converse so much among such , never hear , what i that so seldom converse with them have heard so oft , and seen offered me in writings , that i might have procured the printing of them ? do you believe that none of the levellers , or those whom oliver cromwell suppressed under the name of fifth monarchy men , held no more ? did venner and his company think you hold no more ? 2. but so strange is your forgetfulness or your self-contradicting faculty , that you need none to tell your readers that you write untruths , but your self . do you take no notice , that all that is my words is , that such a holy and righteous government is desirable , and may justly be sought as all christians agree : but your profession is that [ most of your converse is with those that do in faith expect it . and could you see no difference between seeking it , and in faith expecting it ? i desire the conversion and salvation of all the men i know , and i seek it of god in prayer , and of as many of them , as i have fit opportunity , ( or ought so to do at least ; ) i desire the conversion of all the kingdoms , and people of the world ; but whether i may in faith expect it , i am so ignorant that i cannot tell . i desire and seek by prayer of god , that all the world may have holy and just governours : but i cannot boast of so much faith or hope in this , as those that you converse with . as proud as i am , i freely confess my ignorance to you . but certainly they that take it for an article of their faith , do carry the notion further than i can do , who profess that i am ignorant of it , whether it be a promised thing , or not ? sect. 24. e. b. p. 7. — [ because you dare not own any hazardous and persecuted truth ; and you find it far easier in your notional divinity to recant all that formerly you were convinced of , than to bring your heart to a willingness for martyrdom . ] r. b. 1. you spake of danger before ; you now add persecution and martyrdom , intimating that this is such a persecuted point ; which as far as ever i heard ( who live in the same land , and have as hard thoughts of persecution as many others have ) there is not any thing true in your intimation . name the law that is against the opinion of the desirableness of a holy government of all the world ? name the person that ever suffered for that opinion ? though those that will resist or pull down governours , because they take them ( justly or unjustly ) to be ungodly , may suffer for it . again therefore to imply danger of martyrdom , for that which no man ( that ever i heard of ) suffered for , and to feign the avoiding of that danger , to be the chief cause of my recanting or changing my mind or words , which i never recanted or changed , is a monstrous course of fiction and temerity . 2. your talk of recanting all that formerly i was convinced of ] implyeth more temerity and falshood . any man of humane modesty would have thought [ all ] too bigg a word , when the instances produced by him prove nothing . if you refer to the revocation of my book , you should have opened your eyes , and seen that i profess not to recant all the doctrine of it , though i revoke all the book , and wish men to take it as non-scriptum : and sure that passage had no peculiar recantation . 3. but if recantation be so easie to me , remember that i pretend not to infallibility , nor am altogether unwilling to repent . as for martyrdom , i take it to be every christians duty , yea , necessary to salvation , to prepare for it ; that is , to deny his life , and to forsake all in true resolution , for the sake of christ , and hopes of heaven : but how far my heart is brought to a willingness of it , though i am sure you know not , and therefore venture to speak what you know not : yet i have no reason to boast , nor to be self-consident , nor to be high-minded , but to fear . sect. 25. e. b. and this alone , i take to be the true cause , why so weakly , and so unlike a minister of the gospel you inveigh against sufferings . for you have never yet experienced either the comfort or the cleansing of them , and therefore venture rashly to speak evil of what you know not ; and which i fear you have neither courage nor affection to venture the tyral of : i speak it to your shame . r. b. 1. thus sin useth like a river to run on , the longer the greater ! wonderful ! that you can believe the people that fear god to be so sottishly credulous of all the falshoods that you shall tell them , as not so much as to open the book which you accuse , and to see that you deceive them . if you will prove that true which you say , it must be by this argumentation : he that telleth men that sufferings have their temptations as well as prosperity , and warneth men to fear and avoid those temptations , doth weakly and unlike a minister of the gospel inveigh against sufferings : but so doth r. b. ergo — but the major is false , and therefore insufficient to support your false conclusion . let the reader but peruse my words , and if he find one syllable of inveighing against sufferings , let him believe you the next time , and take you for a man that hath not quite forfeited his credit . 2. and what friendship to sin , and continued enmity to vigilancy and repentance do you express , when you were told an unquestionable truth , and but warned of an unquestionable danger and duty , to reject all so senslesly , and that with such false retortions . tell your followers , 1. is it false or true , that sufferings have their temptations as well as prosperity ; and in particular to drive us into uncharitableness and extreams from them that we suffer by ? 2. are not you and others that suffer in danger of such temptations , and sin in sufferings ? 3. should not such temptation and sin be carefully watcht against ? is there any falshood in all this ? 4. and is he fit to glory in the cleansing fruit of sufferings , that shall falsly say , that such a necessary warning is an inveighing against sufferings ? &c. 5. do you believe that they that turned quakers in prison are gainers by their sufferings ? or they that lose more of their love , than of their liberties ? 3. if i never experienced the comfort or cleansing of sufferings , i have cause of great lamentation , as having suffered very much in vain . i will not with paul here glory in my infirmities , but i shall confess , that they greatly aggravate my sin , if your words be true : for i have born the yoke from my youth : since fourteen years of age i have not been a year free from suffering , and since twenty two but few dayes , and since 1646. ( which is about twenty five years , i have had but few hours free from pain , ( though through gods mercy , not intolerable . ) i have had sufferings in peace , and sufferings four years in war : the first year i preached the gospel , my life was sought by malice for my ministerial work , and dissent from others : the next place i came to ( where i was after more blest , and spent my labours ) the first year i was hooted at in the streets , but for preaching the original sin and misery of mankind ( which this man feigneth me to extenuate , if not deny . ) the next year my life was sought by an armed tumult , and strangely preserved , while others were knockt down in the streets , but for looking after my safety . the same year my life was sought more publickly , and i was forced into a garrison from my habitation , through the fury that still sought my life . and since then , o what wholsome and constant sufferings have been measured out unto me , almost continually night and day . i will say no more , but that above all the external disposals of my most wise and gracious god , i humbly , and heartily , and daily thank him for my sufferings . but surely this man is not 〈◊〉 or permitted to write this in vain . alas , my god , it calleth my sin , my unfruitfulness to my remembrance ! my cleansing , nor my comfort have not been answerable to the sharp but gracious helps and warnings which thou hast so long vouchsafed me : it is true , too true , that i have sinned so much under sufferings , and been so unfruitful after sufferings , that i have little cause to boast of cleansing , and less experience of comfort , than otherwise i might have had . but yet i have so much experience as obligeth me to thankfulness , and assuredly to number this saying with his vntruths that he utters ; even the twenty sixth in number ; and i think the crime of usurping the prerogative of god , of knowing the heart , should be repented of . can any of your followers themselves believe , that you that never saw me till of late years , and never thrice spake with me ( that i know of ) and that lived at so great a distance from me , and that were unborn when my sufferings began , and were a child when i was in the greatest of my sufferings many years , i say that you , should be able peremptorily , without any exception to conclude , that [ i never yet have experienced either the comfort or the cleansing of them ] when you know how much cleansing peter acknowledgeth the very apostates sometimes had , and even they that are most terribly cautioned , heb. 6. had tasted of the powers of the world to come . some cleansing and comfort even a miserable man may have . 4. as for your fear that i have not courage or integrity enough to venture the tryal , i thank you for your warning , and shall beg integrity and courage of god ; but to add that you speak it to my shame , is but to shew that you could hardly speak with any caution many sentences together : for your fear doth but speak your uncertainty : ( and to have pretended to a certainty were to pretend to be a god. ) and why should you think that i must be ashamed of that which you are uncertain of ? i doubt you speak it more to your own shame . sect. 26. e. b. p. 8. you should have spared the dead , and not disturbed the dust of my fellow prisoner mr. powel , by reproaching his memory with so abusive and disgraceful a mention of him , as if he were a false prophet , and acted by a deluding spirit : for you lay to his charge , that many years ago , he prophesied of some things which we do not yet see fulfilled . r. b. 1. though it was printed since his death , it was written before ever i heard of his death , and i think many weeks before he dyed . 2. you made it in a manner necessary to me to convince you by some instance that was near enough for your observation ; and do you blame me when you have done ? 3. i named not mr. vavasor powell ; but only your companion and fellow prisoner ; and its like you had more than one , and few could know that it was he : but you have disgraced him by naming him . 4. i called him not a false prophet ; but warned you not thus to abuse gods people , and bring reproach upon religion , by fathering rashnesses and deceits on the spirit of god ? and have you so little sense of the honour of god and religion , as to be angry at that ! alas sir , what would you have said if i had told you how common this was in the army ? to set up and pull down , do and undo , own and disown , as by the spirit of god ? if i should have told you of the sad instances of mr. erbury , mr. saltmarsh , mr. dell , mr. william sedgwick , ( who as from god wrote one week to the army against their putting the king to death , and the next or same week wrote to them quite on the other side ; and that set london by a prophecy or vision on looking for the day of judgement on a set day , ) to say nothing of abundance such ; besides mrs. hutchinson in new england , and the ranters and quakers in our dayes . can you have any love to souls , and any zeal for god and for religion , and not be grieved to think that gods spirit should be thus reproached , and infidels hardned in a contempt of the spirit , as if it were but a fancy ! o wo to the world because of offences ! 5. you shew more of the relicts of modesty here , than in most that i have yet met with , in that you do not deny the truth of what i said of him . but yet your intimations are deceitful , as if his prophecies had not been absolute , but conditional , or else not for the present , but the future . but the case was this , as learned and understanding hearers will yet testifie ; that at clifton upon thame in worcestershire , quickly after worcester fight , in his sermon he said , that he would tell them these things as from god , that they should have no more king , nor pay any more taxes , nor pay any more tythes , and laying his hand upon his bible , he added [ and this i have otherwise than from hence ] which shewed that the scripture was not his rule , for all you accuse others of making it an imperfect rule . 6. and do you not yet perceive your partiality and respect of persons ? it seemeth your duty to open the faults of the prelats and conformists , and to calumniate us non-conformists that dissent from you , and to feign that which you think will serve you for reproach . but if your companions publick false prophecying be but mentioned upon your own instigation , you cry out of abuse and disgrace to his memory . sir , was it true or false ? if it be true , that thus he did ( which is mentioned as no rarity ) should you not rather take part with god than him ? and if an aaron will make the people naked to their shame , will not god record it to his shame ? is not the honour of the spirit of god more tenderly to be preserved than his , or yours , or mine , or any mans ? o do not injure god , for man. sect. 27. e. b. p. 8. but 1. may not a good man , yea , a true prophet , be sometime mistaken ? was not samuel so , when he took eliab to be the lords anointed ? was not nathan deceived , when he encouraged david to build the temple ? — r. b. 1. yes , they may be deceived when they speak in their own names , and judge by their own spirit or reason : but do you think they may be deceived when they prophesie as from god. if so , then what certainty can we have of the truth of any of their prophecies , if they may speak falsly to us in the name of god ? 2. will not your followers think you yet see your partiality , who in one page reproach others as denying scripture to be a perfect rule , and in another can thus seek to parallel gods prophets , with one that rashly in the pulpit prophesieth three falshoods together in the name of god ? is it not gods direction to us , to take him for a false prophet who prophesieth that which cometh not to pass ? every one that foretelleth that which doth come to pass is not a true prophet , deut. 13. 23. but every one that absolutely prophesieth that which doth not come to pass , is a false prophet , deut. 18. 20 , 21 , 22. but the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name , which i have not commanded him to speak — even that prophet shall dye . ( mark whether god do judge as you do . ) and if thou say in thy heart , how shall we know the word which the lord hath spoken , when a prophet speaketh in the name of the lord , if the thing follow not , nor come to pass , that is the thing which the lord hath not spoken , but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously : thou shalt not be afraid of him . sect. 28. e. b. 2. may not many prophets truly foretell things to come , and yet those things be a long time suspended and delayed because of the sins of the people ? is not this condition to be understood in most scripture prophecies , expressed , zach. 6. 15. and this shall come to pass , if you will diligently obey , &c. r. b. 1. a conditional promise or prediction may be not only delayed , but never fulfilled ( so as that the thing shall not come to pass ) if the condition never come to pass , 2. promises are oftner to be expounded as conditional , than peremptory prophecies , when no condition is expressed . but what words can more exclude both conditions and delayes , than [ i tell you from god , that you shall never more , &c. when 1. they never ceased paying tythes from that day to this : 2. and their taxes were then upon them , and i think they believe not that they never paid more . 3. and that we have a king his subjects all acknowledge . indeed the jews say that the promise of the messiah is delayed because of their sins ; and by such pretences what true prophecy may not be perverted , and false excused ? as for what you say of mr. powels religiousness , diligence , and worthiness , i never said a word against it : and i desire to promote , and not to cloud the true honour of his name : and your calling that an unchristian calumny which you cannot deny to be a proved truth , is but an unmanly calumny of your own . and for your prophecy of my memory dying before me , i am not solicitous of the matter ; let god do with my memory what he please : nor am i regardful of your prophecy , who defend false prophecying , being commanded not to fear such , deut. 18. 22. sect. 29. e. b. the pride of your heart , discovered by your writings is so apparent , that it cannot but be known and read of all men : to go no further for instances than your last books , what needed you have told the world in print , that you chase once on easter day to communicate in a very populous church , purposely that it might be the further known . is not this like the hypocrites to blow a trumpet before , and to do your actions that they may be seen of men ? what other end could you have in doing that so publickly then , or in declaring it now , but a vain glorious hope , that doubting and unsatisfied christians might look upon your example , as their pole-star , and accordingly direct their course ? r. b. 1. as to the pride of my heart , i shall first say this in general ; that i am past doubt i have too much of it : as no man is wholly cured of that odious vice , so i am one that have no cause to say that i am perfect . but these things i can confidently say , 1. that so far as i am proud , i sin as much against my own judgement , i imagine , as most men alive do ; there being sew that ever i was acquainted with , that have said and written more against it than i have done : i have had these thirty years and more , more odious conceptions of that sin , and a deeper sense of its commonness and prevalency in the world , and the wofull ruines which it makes in the church and state and souls ; and how frequently it sheweth it self even in men of great piety and worth , than of almost any other sin . i have had so many thousand thoughts and words against it , as make me much more culpable , if i be proud . 2. and i shall sin as much against my conscience in being proud as most men in the world . as my judgement is so much against the sin , so my conscience commandeth me a very low and constant self-abasement : it telleth me , that whether i look to a corruptible painfull flesh , or to an ignorant understanding , or to a sinful will , or to a sinful and unprofitable life , i have so little to be proud of , as will render my pride exceeding odious . 3. i do evidently see the odiousness of this sin in others : were it not for seeming to retort your charge , i should say , that though i cannot as you do conclude of the heart , yet the usual ensigns of pride ( with temerity and injudiciousness , boldness and blindness ) do appear to me so monstrous in your writings , above the size that ordinary sinners ever fall to , as maketh me the more apprehend , how dreadful it is to give way to pride in the beginnings ; and methinks i see as written on the front of your writings , be not high-minded , but fear . therefore i am still the more culpable , if i abound with that which is so terrible a warning to me , in your self , and other such as you . 4. and as i every day watch and pray against it ( and if ever i knew any thing of my self in the world , i am certain that i live in an habituate and ordinary apprehension of my baseness and unworthiness , and of the utter vanity of humane applause ) so i find my self partly glad that you tell me of my pride , that ( whatever you mean ) i may have one more check to keep it under ; and if it be a messenger of satan to buffet me , i hope it will not be in vain . 5. and i can assure you , that these writings which so exasperate you , had never come from me , if i had not first so far conquered the esteem of man , and love of reputation , as to be willing to cast my self upon reproach , and to be much indifferent as to the opinion of man ? for i was not so ignorant as not to foresee that such as you would take the detection and reproof of their errors for a heinous injury , and be angry at him that called them to repent , and would furiously scatter the fetide excrements of their gall , in revilings of such as contradict them . methinks then you should see , that i laid by some pride , when i cared so little for your good word , and exposed my self so readily to your calumnies . 2. and i must tell you that though you do as much to cure my pride , as almost any mortal man that ever i had to do with , by the way of open demonstration of the ensigns of it by your self ( as the sight of a leprosie would cure one that were in love with it ; ) yet you are too blame for tempting me so much to pride as you do on the other side , while you decry it : for what is it else but an inviting and tempting a man to be proud , to tell the world , that you have nothing to charge him with to prove it , but such silly calumnies as these of yours ? 3. and yet i will say , that i see now that a mans enemies may be more useful to him than his friends : for i can hear that of my pride from you , which never friend by word or letter to my remembrance told me in my life . the more too blame they , if you be not mistaken . 2. but next let us see your evidence or proof : your first is , [ what need i have told the world , &c. ] would you have an answer to your question or not ? if not , why do you ask it ? if you would , why did you not take an answer when i gave it you ; nor so much as mention it , as if you read it not , when you call for another ? is it because that you remembred , that many that read your papers , will never read mine , and so will not know what i have said , nor how deceivingly you use them ? it may be so : but will that do your work , and hold at last ? if i repeat my answer , i shall offend my readers , for writing the same thing twice , because you take no notice of the first . but this much i will return you now : 1. my avoiding publick communion for fear of bringing more suffering on those that scrupled it , ( and that so many years together , ) was a scandal and temptation to others , and tended to make them think , that i held it to be unlawful ; as peters separation was a scandal to barnabas and others : and do you think every man that avoideth scandalizing , is therefore proud : are not humble men bound to avoid scandal as well as others ? if a man by many years forbearing all publick prayer or sacrament , should tempt others to think that he is against them , or accounts them needless , how should he cure that scandal , but by doing that openly , and open pleading for it , which he is supposed to be against ? doth paul make scandal to be the destroying of anothers soul , and a thing to be avoided on such hard terms as he mentioneth , and do you think that the open avoiding it , is to be charged with pride ? how directly do you set your self against the way of the spirit of god ? 2. i had for the same reason become a scandal also to our governours , and to many sober conformable men , who were tempted by my omission , to think the non-conformists to be pievish dividers , who follow parties and passion , more than their own consciences ? and would any thing cure this scandal also , that had not been notified ? or is the scandal of so many such persons no evil to be avoided ; nor their mis-judging of the non-conformists to be cured by such as did occasion it ? 3. is not every minister of christ a publick person ? should they not be the lights of the world , that cannot and should not be hid ? is every man proud , that is not mad ? whether my actions be noted , is a matter of fact ? the question is not , whether i be so regardable , as to be worthy notice ? but whether de facto any do note what i do ? and do you doubt of it ? why then do you write two invectives to cure their esteem of me ? do you not perceive here how your work contradicts your self ? and must i needs as my duty , be so mad , as not to know that any observe me , or regard what i do , for fear of being proud ? you might as well make it a duty to go naked in the streets , lest i be proud if i think that any one will observe me . 4. and are not ministers bound to teach the people by example , as well as by doctrine ? you dare not deny it . and is that example , which is unknown ? will you teach men to say against gods command , i must not be so proud as to think that my example will be observed or regarded ? god saith , 1 tim. 4. 12. be thou an example of the believers in word , in conversation , in charity , in spirit , in faith , in purity : must none that think meanly of themselves obey this ? o but , you will reply , is not this like hypocrites , to do your actions to be seen of men ? christ will have us all to let our light so shine before men ( not with the hypocrite to get their applause to our selves , but for their own good and gods glory ) that they may see our good works , and glorifie our father which is in heaven . o but saith mr. bagshaw , what other end can you have in doing this , but a vain-glorious hope , that doubting christians may look on your example as their pole-star , &c and indeed will such a scorn of e. b. disoblige all christs ministers from obeying their lord , and allow them to live in open scandal , for fear of thinking it lawful to be exemplary ? 5. do you think indeed that you are not noted your self ? do you neither in life nor in your sufferings , intend to be publickly exemplary ? do you not forbear the publick assemblies , the rather that your example may move others ? thus still a perverse spirit condemneth it self . 6. if doctrine and example be the two means commanded , by which ministers must edifie the church , is it not pride as well to expect that our words should be heeded , as our examples ? and could an atheist deal more impudently and prophanely , than to tell all ministers , you are notoriously proud in expecting that all the congregation should take heed of what you say ? do you not preach or talk to your own auditors , and expect observation ? what if another e. b. were among them and should say , how proud are you to expect that we should all regard your words , as if you were our pole-star ? these are not meet lessons for a sufferer to teach the people . sect. 30. e. b. i look upon it also as a strange piece of boasting , when you tell us , that men of all judgements have written against you : — is it indeed true that you offend all , and please none , and can you glory that you are accounted the ishmael of the age ? r. b. alas , poor man ! is this conscience scrupulous of communion with us publicans and sinners ? here are no less than three more visible vntruths thrast together . 1. that i say , [ that men of all judgements have written against me ] when my words are these [ whereas our differences in doctrine , worship and discipline have engaged men of several minds in such writings against me . ] where did i say , that men of the judgement of peter or paul , of augustine or prosper , wrote against me ? are those infidels , quakers , with the &c. [ all ] ? 2. that i glory that i am accounted the ishmael of the age ( which is intimated in the question ) or boast of mens contradiction ? which is so notorious a falshood , that i mention it only as other mens contradiction of each other ( who blame me for contrary things ) and as my own trouble . i only told you , how impossible it is for me to please all men , while men expect so many contrary things of me : the anabaptists are quite displeased with me for writing for infants baptism : the conformists are angry , because i will not subscribe that [ it is certain by gods word , that children which are baptized , dying before they commit actuall sin , are undoubtedly saved ] without excepting those that are wrongfully baptized , turks , heathens , &c. the antinomians are offended with me for opposing their subversion of the gospel under pretence of extolling free grace : and others are angry that i come so near them , as to the cessation of moses law. and so it is with all the rest . how vain therefore is it to turn a man-pleaser , when the task is as impossible as unprofitable . but o , saith e. b. what a strange boast is this , to tell us that men of all judgements have written against you ! that which i recite as my tryal and trouble , he falsly tells the world , i boast of . 3. the third known falshood is ( intimated ) that [ i offend all and please none . ] as if he did believe that those whom i mentioned ( even with an &c. ) were [ all ] and there were no others in the world ? 2. but besides these falshoods , he again condemneth himself for his accusation . for 1. if it be a matter of pride to declare that i am written against , why will this man write himself against me , and tempt me to be more proud , when he accuseth me of pride ? is not his writing published by himself ? why then will he publish that which himself supposeth to be my glorying ? and so advance my reputation ? ( which few adversaries ever did more effectually ) 2. and if i offend all and please none , what need he be at all this labour to save men from being pleased by me ? but it is fatal or natural to men of his vice , to have bad memories . the former untruth he again implyeth , [ you would be grieved for grieving them , and not put it in among your triumphs , that you had provoked so many able worthy men . ] he that hath once ventured upon an untruth , may do it boldlier the second time , and may come at last to believe himself . as for the worthy opponents whom he nameth , 1. i can honour and love them as much as he , without thinking them infallible : and i can . differ from them without disaffection . 2. which of them is it that the man would have me grieve for grieving ? doubtless those that are in the points controverted of his mind ! so kind is he to them or himself . it cannot be all , unless he would have me , either say nothing of the matter , or write contrary things to please contrary parties . 3. and doth he not differ from most whom he nameth himself , by his separation ? and yet he sticketh not thus to grieve many more than them . sect. 31. e. b. p. 9. [ when i said in one of my exceptions , that i feared you were not sound in the doctrine of justification by faith alone without works , instead of answering directly , and satisfying my scruple ( which you might have done in few words ) you refer me to five or more treatises , which you say you have written on that subject . — r. b. 1. did you believe when you wrote this , that this reference was a proof of my pride ? 2. why would you no more regard your reputation , than to recite such a passage as this ? will your reader doubt whether you should repent of such things as words of impudency unbeseeming a man of understanding ? for 1. was it modesty in you to divulge such an accusation as this [ i am afraid you are not sound in the doctrine of justification ] without reciting one word of mine which you accuse , or telling the reader or me any reason of your fears ? 2. and could you expect that he that had written so many books to declare his judgement in that point , must write part of another , to tell you what he holds , and consequently write as many , or as oft as men shall so by their fears invite him ? 3. and do you not at that very time prove me proud for writing so many books , when by this and other passages you call for an answer , that is , for more ? 4. could you think that [ a few words ] would open a mans mind so plainly , as many books can do ? 5. could humane ingenuity expect more from one thus slightly questioned , than to be referred to those books , which were purposely written both to stand as a full confession of my faith in that point after other mens suspicions , and also to give the reasons of it , and to defend it against all that 's said against it ? and could i expect , that he that will disdain to read these books , will read another that repeateth the same things ? and shall i write more to remove his fears , who will rather blindly vent them by calumny , than read for his satisfaction what i have said ? if you have read them , why would you say you fear , which signifieth uncertainty ? when you might have come to a certain knowledge ? if you read them not , why would you not use a visible means to discuss your fears , before you divulged them ? and if this way be right in the eyes of others , what made dr. owen , and other congregational brethren , admonish your brother mr. powell for preaching openly ( almost as soon as he came out of prison ) particularly against me and another ( then thought to have been mr. nie , but he said he meant mr. tombs ) by description ; and the description of me was [ he that is not sound in the doctrine of justification ] or to that sense . and what made them threaten to disown him if he would not cease such wayes ? did ever sober men go about with such general accusations , and expect that men answer to they know not what ? 6. but what are the few words that would satisfie you ? a yea , or a nay ? what if i say , sir i think i am sound in the doctrine of justification , and i think you speak evil of the things you know not ] would that have satisfied you ? sect. 32. e. b. and in another place you tell me that you have written the better part of above fifty books against the prophane , the jews and the mahumetans : ( i will not enquire to what purpose ; for i am very confident none of those did ever read what you have written against them : ) but add to these your several other treatises — your books will in all amount to as many volumes as tostatus writ , concerning whom , and all such kind of writers , you once gave this true character , though since you have most unhappily forgotten it [ i cannot but account all those tostatus's as impudently proud , who think the world should read no bodies works but theirs . pray sir read this passage again , and compare it with what you have already written , and what as i hear you do yet further intend to write , and then tell me in earnest what you think of your self — r. b. 1. seeing our debates about church-dividing must needs be turned to this , whether i am proud , i grant you the conclusion that i am proud , and what would you have more ? 2. your ductile followers that never saw tostatus know not how you cheat them by these words ; and that you measure by number , and not by bulk ; and twenty of some of my books , will not make one of tostatus's for bigness : if you go to number , how many more wrote origen ? but a sheet is not so big as a large volume in folio . 3. i never accused augustine , chrysostom , calvin , zanchy , &c. as imitating tostatus ; and i have not wrote so much as they . 4. the best way to cure one that writeth too much , is to perswade men not to buy and read it , and then the booksellers will not print it . and till you can do that , you see that all men are not of your mind : and by what obligation am i bound to be of your mind alone , rather than of many thousands that are of another , and those that still importune me to write more ? is it pride only to differ from you , and to write against your judgement ? or were not the fathers and divines fore-mentioned , ( with rivet , chamier , beza , luther , &c. yea , and dr. owen too , proud , if large writings be a sign of pride . 5. when you question to what purpose it is to write books against the prophane , and jews , and mahumetans , that is , against infidelity , and to defend the christian faith , you shew what a guide you are to the church . 6. when you are confident that none of the prophane , &c. did ever read what i wrote against them , either you believe your self , or not . if you do , how unfit are you to be believed of any that know no better what is credible in a matter of fact ? could you think for instance , that my call to the vnconverted hath been printed so oft , i think some scores of thousands , and translated into french by mr. eliots ( as he said he was doing ) into the indian tongue , and no prophane person ever read it ? you will take this very instance its like for my pride , which you make necessary to shew your temerity and deceit . but if you do not believe your self , how much less should others believe you ? 7. will no sober readers think that you set your self to do the devils work , against the service of the church of god , by seeking to silence us from writing by your contumely and scorns , ( even from writing against the prophane and infidels ) at a time when we are by others silenced from publick preaching ? let your conscience tell you , if i had obeyed you from the first , and never written , whether the devil or most that have made use of what i wrote , would have thankt you more ? 8. did not the primitive teachers , apostles and others leave us their examples for writing , as well as for vocal teaching ? and are they not two wayes of predicating or publishing the same gospel ? and if so , would he serve god or the devil , that would scorn us all as proud for preaching so much , as the best men do ? 9. and do you not yet see how much you have of the same silencing spirit which you profess to separate from ? 10. but your warning for a review hath brought me to repent of , and retract that passage against tostatus , as being too rashly uttered : because 1. he wrote when good writers were more scarce than now . 2. because he might be willing that other mens works should be preferred before his , and that his own should not be wholly read , but partly perused on particulas occasions . 3. and it is unseemly to reprove industry . now we come to the question after all this . sect. 33. in stating of this question , you do e. b p. 10. your self grant so much , that you scarce leave any thing to be either disputed or denyed — r. b. remember reader , that my professed design ( on the title page ) is , 1. to invite all sound and sober christians , by what names soever called , to receive each other to communion in the same churches . 2. and where that ( which is first desireable ) cannot be attained , to bear with each other in their distinct assemblies , and to manage them all in christian love. 3. and that under the first head , i particularly prove , that it is lawful to hold communion with such christian churches , as have worthy or tolerable pastors , notwithstanding the parochial order of them , and the ministers conformity and use of the common-prayer book . this last is the true state of the question which i affirm ; with these two limitations or explications . that is , 1. that it is lawful statedly to communicate as a member , with such a parish church , where we cannot consideratis considerandis have communion with a better upon lawful termes . 2. that those that can have stated communion with a better , may yet lawfully communicate sometimes with such a parish church , as we may do on just occasion with a church of neighbours or strangers where we live or come . yea that we ought to do so when some special reasons ( as from authority scandal , &c. ) do require it . these are the summ of my assertions . though my main cause oblige me as much to prove to a conformist that he may have communion with a church of non-conformists , yet i had no call to prosecute that particularly , as i had to the other , for the reasons which i rendred at large . and this being the case , judge now of this mans dissent and furious opposition , whether sober people have reason to regard it , when he himself beginneth with this confession , that i scarce leave any thing to be disputed or denyed . what honesty then is there in his denyals and disputes . sect. 34. e. b. 1. you grant that we are not to have communion with a diocesane church as such , and that we are not to own diocesane bishops ? r. b. here are two more untruths ! i only said , that these are no part of our question ; they are things that i assert not ; and that i meddled not with : and you feign me to grant the negative , when i only say , i meddle not with it . i only say , that i hold no communion my self with a diocesane church as such , in that form , &c. and that i perswade no others to it . sect 35. e. b. 2. you allow that we are not to have communion with persecutors , nor with such as have consented to our silencing . r. b. i never wrote such a word , but only told you it was none of our question , and that i did not affirm it , and that it is none of the thing that i am perswading men to . and yet with this intimation pag. 9. that neither your selves nor i do avoid . communion with all persecutors ; seeing most parties have been guilty of it . the common-wealths men persecuted me and others , so far as to make orders to sequester us , for not taking the engagement , and for not keeping their fasts and thanksgivings for the warrs against scotland ; and yet i am not so rigid as to refuse communion with all that did it , or consented to it . my old special friend did persecute mr. sam. fisher and mr. blake , when he turned them both out of shrewsbury , from their churches , labour , dwellings and maintenance , even when the plague was begun and the people doubly sensible of their loss . and yet i refused not all communion with such as did it . it s like you know who persecuted mr. caughton , dr. drake , mr. nalton , mr. arthur jackson , mr. watson , mr. jenkins , &c. and mr. love and gibbons ; and yet who scrupleth communion with them ? again i tell you , i mention not these for reproach , but only to set us in the impartial sense of the question . sect. 36. e. b. p. 11. all this and more — being granted , i scarce see what it is that you contend for — r. b. what eyes then have you that cannot see that which i copiously and expresly speak ? sect. 37. e. b. from these grounds separation at this day may be easily justified . r. b. this is the undertaking by which you have drawn me to renew this debate , and therefore i shall try your proof . sect. 38. e. b. every parish church is part of the diocesane : and if a diocesane church as such is not to be communicated with , then a parish church as such is to be separated from ; since there is the same reason of the parts as of the whole : and you must find out a new logick before you can prove , that if the whole be corrupt , any of the parts are clean , and fit for our communion . r. b. the name of logick is incongruously used in such an argument , as is so palpably fallacious . a parish church stands before us in three respects . 1. as it is a true church of christians , having all things essential in pastours and people . 2. as these christians live in the bounds of a parish . 3. as this parish church by the laws of the land is subject to the diocesane , and so a part of his diocess . both the latter are meerly accidental , and it hath all that is essential to a church without them . as mr. jacob instanceth in ordination , and so in marriage ; he that is marryed truly , is truly a husband , though a priest or ring or some unnecessary accident was adjoyned . your reason is , 1. ridiculously fallacious , 2. and if all were granted , reacheth not the case . 1. it is ridiculous , to argue , if a diocesane church as such is not to be communicated with , then a parish church as such is to be separated from . for the [ as such ] in the antecedent and consequent denoteth two several things : you should only have inferred [ then a parish church as part of a diocesane is not to be communicated with ] which is nothing to the question . and when you say that there is the same reason of the parts and whole ; i answer , that must be only as they are parts ; but not in all other alien respects . if a parish church be to be disclaimed or not owned only as it is a part of a diocesane church , yet it may be owned , 1. as a true church of christians , in its constitution . 2. and as a parish church , limited by those bounds , without respect to the diocesane . 2. and if it were to be disowned as a parish church , that also is nothing to the question ; for it may yet be owned for its constitutive parts as a christian church . i will shew you your argument in another case . suppose that usurpers should alter the form of kingly government , and set up themselves in another form , and should allow all the independent churches in the land , but set over them civil officers in every county of their own ; and should make a law , that none shall be a member of a church that liveth not within five miles of the meeting place . in this case , the church is a church in its own constitution ; and that it is confirmed to a parochial circuit , or that it is under usurping magistrates is an accidental thing , which doth not nullifie it . and if you argue [ if the vsurpers commonwealth as such , be not to be communicated with or owned , then the church which is part of it is not to be owned . yes , as a church , but not as a part of the common-wealth . if independent churches were under the turks government , they may be parts of an infidel and perhaps usurped kingdom , and yet be true churches and to be owned . if presbyterian classical churches be supposed sinful , and the law said that all the independent or particular churches shall be under the several classes , and be part of those churches , the churches will be true churches nevertheless . for , 1. perhaps most of them consent not to the laws determination , but only forbear an open contradiction . 2. and in others of them the people may not consent though the pastor do . 3. and if they do consent , and it be their sin , it will not nullifie the particular church ; being but an unwarrantable accident . if vniversities were as unlawful as many separatists judge them , yet dr. goodwins church , e. g. in oxford might have been part of the university , and yet a true church , and to be disowned as part of the university , and yet not as a church . if you were a member of an unlawful society , army , church , &c. you may be disowned as a member of that society , and yet not as a christian , or as a man. now would not the boyes laugh at you if you should reason thus : an usurped heathenish kingdom or common-wealth , as such is unlawful , and not to be communicated with ; a classical church as such is not to be communicated with ; an university as such is not to be communicated with : therefore such or such a particular church as such is not to be communicated with , which is a part of that kingdom , that classis , that university ! e. b. a christian is a member of a society which is not to be owned : ergo e. b. a christian as such is not to be owned . what more apparent than that the consequent should be but this ? therefore such a church should not be owned , as it is a part of such a kingdom , classis , vniversity , &c. which is all accidental to the church . so that here is a double equivocation , and more than four terms : 1. [ as such ] speaketh ( as i said ) one essence in the antecedent , and another in the consequent . 2. the word [ communicating ] speaketh several things in the antecedent and in the consequent . for to communicate with a diocesane church , is not to assemble with it in publick worship : for a diocess ( in our sense ) cannot so assemble : but it is to own the diocesane relation , and prelats . but to communicate with a particular church in a parish , is to have personal communion in the worship of the assembly . so that this is your argument if put in plain words : [ if it be unlawful to communicate with a diocesane church as such , by owning the diocesanes and the relation to them , then it is unlawful to communicate with a true particular church in a parish , ( or bounded parochially ) in the assembly worship as it is such a particular church , which is part of that diocesane church : but , &c. ] answ . yes , it may be unlawful to communicate with it as a part , and that by diocesane communion ; but not as a true church of christians by assembly communion . or thus [ it is unlawful , e. g. to have communion with the army of maximus , cromwel , &c. as such : but many christians are parts of the army of maximus , cromwel , &c. therefore it is unlawful to have communion with those christians : because there is the same reason of the parts as of the whole . ans . 1. christians are not parts of the army as christians , but as those souldiers . 2. it is unlawful to have military communion with them as parts of that army ; but not to have christian communion with them as christians . may not even the simple now easily see ( if you will not ) by what ignorant erroneous reasons you zealously labour to deceive the people of god , to divide the churches ? sect. 39. e. b. 2. a parish minister is ( in that station and office ) but a servant of the diocesane bishop ; and therefore rightly called a curate , and if we may not own ( as you grant ) the bishop , i think it will necessarily follow , that his substitute and curate hath no reason to expect any respect from us — r. b. the same fallacy is so palpable that a small measure of reason may discern it . 1. it is false that he is in that office [ but a servant ] the truth is , the law maketh him not a servant at all , but only an ecclesiastical subject . but if you had said , he is but a subject , it had not been true , if [ but ] be exclusive of his other pastoral relation . for he is by the law , the priest , the teacher , the rector of that parish church in subordination to the bishop . 2. but whatever he be by the law of the land , or by the bishops will , the faithful ministers in parish churches are by christs own commission , the true pastors of the flocks ; having all things essential to that relation . 3. but deceive not your reader by intimating , that i speak of a parochial minister as parochial , ( not quâ but qui : ) for parish bounds are but accidents of the churches : it is christian churches as such , though parochial or so bounded , that i speak of . a christian pastor with his christian flock ( e. g. mr. gataker , mr. marshall , dr. stoughtion , dr. seaman , mr. sedgwicke , dr. gouge and such like ) do constitute a true christian church , though in parish bounds . and as such pastours they are the ministers of christ , and not servants to diocesanes : and their subordination to diocesans by the law is but accidental to their pastoral office . how many volumes of the old non-conformists give you this answer ? and if you have read them , why would you dissemble it , and give no reply to it ? if you never read them , is it modesty to despise them ? sect. 40. e. b. p. 11. [ if persecutors are not to be communicated with , nor such as have consented to our silencing ( which you also allow ) ( though i could wish you had proved it better than by the obscure & disputable example of martin ) then i think very few , if any of the parish-ministers , but must even upon that account also be separated from ; since either by open consent , or else by an vndoing and pernicious silence they have all made themselves guilty of that grievous sin : there being but little difference in the sight of god , between the persecuting brethren our selves , and ( by not sharply reproving it ) seeming to approve of it in others . r. b. 1. your repeated mistake of my [ allowing ] that which i only meddle not with , but exclude from the question ; or oppose not , i pass by . 2. every one that is by remote consequence guilty of our silencing doth not consent to it . otherwise you , and i , and all the silenced ministers in england do consent to it . for he is blindly impenitent that will deny that we are any way guilty of it . 3. you do but cover one open sin with another ; even separation with uncharitable slander of many hundred godly conformable ministers , whom you accuse of this consent . i know scarce any one of my acquaintance whom i take for a faithful diligent pastor , and whom i perswade men to hear , but they are grieved at the heart for the silencing of so many and such . i hear some complain of it privately , and some lament it publickly , and earnestly pray that god would restore them ; but i never heard one of them own it . 4. i plead not for vndoing , pernicious silence : i think too many are deeply guilty by it : my testimony in this case is visible among the writings whose number you prove me proud by . but if you make this a proof of the duty of separation , you will make mad work of it . for , 1. you know not mens opportunities to speak : and where there is no opportunity , there it s no duty . 2. you know not who hath spoken their dissent plainly and who not . it may he some have done it in the convocation : it may be some have done it privately , and some publickly already in due season . and we are not to expect an account from them of all that they say . 3. to whom is it that you would have all the countrey ministers speak against our silencing ? to those that did it they have no access ; and they are out of hearing . and must they needs talk to the people of their superiours actions , and speak against them behind their backs ? 4. if we know that one , two , twenty have spoken or written plainly in reproof of a sin , are all the ministers in the land bound to do the same over again ? must they all leave their flocks to come up to london to do it ? or must they every one publish his reproof in print ? 5. all silence , or not-reproving is not a seeming consent : much less in gods sight little different from persecution . were all the churches in the empire persecutors , or to be separated from , which did not reprove the emperours for banishing athanasius , and chrysostom and such others ? of all the silenced ministers in london or england , how small a number is there that have [ sharply reproved ] the silencers ? and perhaps they that have done it most sharply may have been more sharp than did beseem them . to conclude readers , mark here by this reason how few you must hold communion with in the land or in the world , if you will be the disciples of mr. bagshaw ; away from conformists and non-conformists that have [ sharply reproved ] persecutors . this is the way to be able to guess at the names and numbers of those that by his rule you must communicate with . 5. but what if they have sharply reproved this one sin ? you cannot prove that they themselves have done so by all other sins : even you your self have left some unreproved : and will not the want of the sharp reproving of other sins as well as of persecution , make your communion with such unlawful ? 6. but at the worst ; not reproving can be but a particular sin ? and it is not every particular sin that maketh communion unlawful . 7. and have you first admonished them of that sin , and tryed all these ministers whether they be penitent ? yea or ever heard them speak for themselves ? or do you reject matth. 18. 15. and make to your self and followers a new law , that whomsoever you shall suspect or accuse of sin , you must also separate from ? 8. but by this rule of yours , methinks few if any should be liker to be accepted in your communion than my self , if reproving persecution would serve turn . and yet even i also am rejected by you , as being not wise or good enough to communicate with such as you , but as one of the worst of hereticks to be rejected of all . 9. but i beseech you give your readers leave here to remember , if you will not , that your own doctrine imposeth it on me as my duty , to reprove you sharply as i have done ; while you teach the world , that it is but little different in the sight of god , to persecute , and not sharply to reprove it , and so disown it . for if it make the sins of my superiours mine , if i do not sharply reprove them , and make me almost as guilty as they , i shall not be innocent if i reprove not you sharply , when it is to me that you direct your words . and i had rather be thought too sharp , than be guilty of all the crimes and falshoods of this your script , especially when you are the accuser of my silence your self . sect. 41. e. b. lastly , admitting there are some worthy and able men , among the parish ministers ( which for my own part i believe never a whit the more because you affirm it ) yet this we must say , that their sin is great in submitting to so undue a way of entering into the ministry ; and therefore we both forbear our selves , and warn all others not to hear them ; because we cannot think our lord christ ever sent such to preach in his name , who directly and by a solemn oath have renounced their christian liberty under pretence of preaching christ ; and are indeed nothing else ( as to the whole discharge and exercise of their office ) but servants of men — in consistent with being servants of christ . r. b. 1. either you think there are some worthy able men among them , or you do not . if you do , why should you be so malignant as to question the assertion of it , and so loth to grant it ? if you do not , how unfit is so false and malignant an accuser of the brethren , to be the conducter of souls , or the historian of the age , that will not know a thing so publick and notorious . 2. as for your not believing me , no men are so hardly brought to believe the truth from others , as they that are conscious of ordinary falshood from themselves . 3. i think i could prove their sin as effectually as you can : but must we separate from all sinners ? or from all that sin in their entrance into the ministry ? and why not as well from all other sins of equal greatness ? do you warn all others not to hear your self ? or do you yet take your self to be no sinner ? or no great sinner ? what if the presbyterians think the independents way of entrance to be undue ? and the independents think so of the presbyterians ? and both of the anabaptists ? and the anabaptists of them both , &c. must they all therefore warm all men not to hear each other ? mr. nye thought not so , when he wrote for such hearing publick ministers . is it fit for the author of two books of calumnies and bold untruths , besides false doctrines and other crimes , to say [ their sin is great , &c. and therefore we both forbear our selves , and warn all others not to hear them ? ] 4. most that i speak of did enter into the ministry in the presbyterian or independent way heretofore , and do but continue on the terms which i dissent from as well as you . how then can you say they unduely enter into the ministry ? 5. did you know before you wrote this , that all such as we perswade men to hear , have by oath renounced their christian liberty ? what oath is it that you mean ? if you mean the oath of supremacy or allegiance , unless popery be christian liberty , we know of none such which these renounce . and i know of no other oath , except that of canonical obedience in licitis & honestis . and for that , 1. i find not that the act , or canons do impose it on those that come for ordination ; ( nor am so well skil'd in the law as to know by what law it is done ; ) 2. i know that men have been ordinarily ordained without it . and to such your reason for separation is vain . 3. mr. bradshaw and other old non-conformists were wont to say that they obeyed the diocesanes , and so did promise them obedience , only as they are the kings officers , deputed for the exercise of that civil or coercive power which magistrates have in causes called ecclesiastical . and what liberty doth that give away ? 4. but suppose that you are the wiser man , and that those that are more ignorant do mistakingly think that canonical obedience , and the oath ( with that of supremacy ) to be their duty , and no renouncing of their christian liberty ▪ is it not false doctrine to conclude , that christ never sent out any that had as great a sin as this ? what none ? when he sent out judas himself , who was first a thief and after a traytor ? do you think then that christ ever sent out lyars , railers , furious church-dividers , false accusers , & c ? 5. that indeed they are nothing else , as to the whole discharge and exercise of their office , but the servants of men , is another slander and untruth . he that is a servant of christ , and a true pastor of a christian church , and a sound preacher of the gospel , and an helper of believers faith , and a lover of the peoples souls , and a diligent upright labourer for mens salvation , is something else than a servant of man ( even in the discharge of their ministerial office . ) but such are many of the conformable ministers : ergo — prove if you can that dr. preston , sibbes , stoughton , whittaker , mr. bolton , whateley , gataker , fenner , and all the late assembly save eight or nine at most ( being all conformists ) were nothing else but the servants of men , and not at all the servants of christ . your father thought otherwise of mr. bolton , and perhaps they were both as wise as you . prove now that mr. gurnal , mr. trap , dr. lightfoot , dr. walker , mr. langley , and many others that i can name that are worthy men in london and round about it , are nothing else but the servants of men ? and will it not be as hard to prove one to be a servant of christ who serveth satan by falshood and malice , and calumniating christs churches and servants , as those that are thus the servants of men . sect. 42. e. b. for the question is not ( as you weakly and insignificantly word it ) whether a defective , faulty , true church may ordinarily ( or at least sometimes be joyned with ] but whether a defective , faulty , imposing church is not to be separated from . ] r. b. 1. you begin here with another untruth : i was the stater of the question , and did not referr it to you to state it : i chose that question to dispute which i thought fittest : therefore to tell me that it not the question , which is the question , is untrue . 2. we have here another taste of your insolency : to call them magisterially [ weak and insignificant ] words , which you design not to examine , nor once notifie to the reader , wherein the weakness or insignificancy is , nay which we suppose you in the next sentence use your self , expresly in all the words save one , and implicitly as to that : for defective and faulty are words that you condescend to use : and when you say [ a church ] you must mean a church that hath truth of essence ▪ or else you speak equivocally or contradiction . and may not a true church be faulty and defective ? where then is the insignificancy of these words ? 3. and as to the predicate , is there a difference between the questions , whether such a church may be joyned with ? and whether it must be separated from ? if there be , i will put the question as hath least ambiguity . i mean [ such separation , as consisteth , 1. in holding that such a church may not be joyned with . 2. and as consisteth in a privative not-joyning , or refusing communion as unlawful . ] if you mean any thing else , you talk not to me , and to my question . 4. but is all the stress of separation laid upon the word [ imposing ? ] i undertook to prove that the parish ministers that i speak of , do not impose upon the people ; unless officiating be imposing : as separatists themselves impose their own words of prayer , upon the people that are to joyn with them ; it being the ministers office to word his prayers and praises , he imposeth them on the people : and all other circumstances in which the pastor doth and must guide the flock ( as what chapter shall be read , what psalm , meeter , tune , time , &c. ) i think the separatists impose . and i know not that the minister whom i hear doth impose any more on me : therefore by your own rule ▪ i am not bound to separate from this parish church , because it is no imposing church . it is imposed on , but it doth not impose that i know of . sect. 43. e. b. this we affirm , 1. because we know not how else to preserve our christian liberty ( which it is an indispensible duty to maintain ) but by separating from those that would unduly take it from us . r. b. these universal terms not limited nor expounded are to be taken universally ; and so here are two false doctrines ; one that it is indispensible duty to maintain all our christian liberty , and the other that we know not how else to maintain it ▪ but if by this liberty , you mean but some sort of liberty , and not all , you should have distinguished , if you would not deceive . and if by [ we know not ] you intend only a confession of your own ignorance , that would be no proof of the point in hand , because that may be true , which you know not . 1. there is a liberty called christian , because it is essential to christianity ; ( as to be freed from the covenant of works , and from the guilt and reign of sin , and from the power of satan , and the state of enmity against god , &c. ) 2. there is a liberty called christian , because it is procured and given us by christ , though not essential to christianity ; ( as to eat of this meat or that , flesh or herbs , to be free from the observation of certain dayes , and customs , and ceremonies , not sinful in themselves . ) 3. there is a liberty called christian , because christians have it in common with all other men , or with many : ( as to marry or not marry ; to live in this countrey , or that ; to be free from oppression , injuries , slanders , persecution , when they can . ) and we must distinguish of the word [ our ] that is , we must shew how far this liberty is ours indeed . 1. it is one thing to be ours necessarily , or as you say indispensibly , and another thing to be ours when we can get it , keep it , or use it , without a greater loss than it will compensate , or a greater hurt to others . it is one thing to be ours in fundamental right , to be used at fit times , and another thing to be ours , to be alwayes used . prop. 1. the liberty which is essential to our christianity or godliness , is indispensibly to be maintained and exercised , gal. 5. 1. prop. 2. all degrees of the same liberty must be maintained , as well as the essentials ; that is , we must labour to be as free as we can from all the degrees of sin , and misery : but we cannot here have what we would . prop. 3. there is a liberty to use certain things as statedly or ordinarily indifferent , which is none of ours ( to use them ) in several cases , which take away the indifferency , ( as in case of scandal , or greater hurt to others or our selves , or of the restraint of just authority . ) prop. 4. the same must be said of forbearing things indifferent . prop. 5. our liberty from persecution , oppression , injuries , slanders , must be patiently let go , as being none of ours , when it cannot be kept by lawful means , or without a greater hurt , acts 22. 28 , &c. prop. 6. but our liberty in either of these three last mentioned cases , ought not causelesly to be taken from us by others , nor must be causelesly cast away by our selves ; nor should we yield to false teachers , who would deceive the churches , by telling them that they are under divine obligations , when they are not ; and make them believe that things lawful are unlawful , and things indifferent are necessary , gal. 2. 4 , 5. col. 2. 16 , 18 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. acts 15. 1 cor. 7. 21 , 22. the third proposition is it that i am to prove . and pauls becoming all things to all men , to save some , a jew to the jews , his shaving his head , his circumcising timothy , with the reasons of it , his resolution to forbear the eating of flesh , rather than offend the weak , and his perswading others to do the like , do fully prove it . he maintaineth the christians right of liberty against false teachers ; but he maintaineth not the exercise of it , when he had reason to let it go : for liberty is not necessity , 1 cor. 9. 1. am i not free ? 4 , 5. have we not power to eat and to drink ? have we not power to lead about a sister , a wife , as well as other apostles ? 12. if others be partakers of this power over you , are not we rather ? nevertheless we have not used this power , but suffered all things lest we should hinder the gospel of christ . — 15. but i have used none of these things — 19 ▪ for though i be free from all men , yet have i made my self servant to all , that i might gain the more : and unto the jews i became a jew , that i might gain the jews ; to them that are under the law , as under the law , that i might gain them that are under the law : to them that are without the law , as without law , that i might gain them that are without law. to the weak i became as weak , that i might gain the weak : i am made all things to all men , that i might by all means save some . and this i do for the gospels sake — see 1 cor. 8. 13. rom. 14. 21. it is good neither to eat flesh , nor to drink wine , nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth , or is offended , or is made weak . christ himself saith , matth. 17. 26. then are the children free : notwithstanding lest we should offend , go thou , &c. and give them for me and thee . 1 pet. 2. 16. as free , ( that is , as such as by christ are freed from true bondage , but not from order and subjection , and therefore [ not having or using liberty for a cloak of maliciousness , but as the servants of god. no man hath liberty to be unruly or hurtfull . rom. 7. 3. if her husband be dead , she is free from that law , and yet may give away that freedom . yea , of the very liberty from the jewish law , the apostle saith , gal. 5. 13. for ye have been called unto liberty ( q. d. therefore let not false teachers perswade you that you are bound to that which you are freed from ) only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh , but by love serve one another ] q. d. in the exercise of this liberty you must do or not do the things you are at liberty in , as may do most good , according as the law of love requireth , and not as your own carnal interest and lust inclineth you : for all the law is fulfilled in one word , in this , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self . 1 cor. 16. 25 , 28 , 29 , 30 , 31. whatsoever is sold in the shambles eat , asking no question for conscience sake — but if any man say unto you , this is offered in sacrifice to idols , eat not , for his sake that shewed it , and for conscience sake ( thus our liberty is not to be exercised against love : for we have no liberty to hurt our brethren ) 29. conscience i say , not thine own , but of the others : thus others by weakness , and consequently rulers by authority may restrain the exercise of our liberty ) for why is my liberty judged of another mans conscience ? that is , not that his conscience is the rule of my right , or his judgement taketh away my title to liberty ; but his interest and the law of love , do take away my right of using my liberty to anothers hurt . 3. for if i by grace be a partaker ( that is , lawfully according to my christian liberty ) why am i evil spoken of for that for which i give thanks , ( that is , it is a fault in those that accuse me of sin , when i do that which is lawful , in it self , abstracted from the consequents or scandal ) : whether therefore ye eat or drink , ( which are things indifferent as to the kind of food ) or whatsoever ye do ( how lawful in it self soever ) do all to the glory of god ( for the interest of the end must guide and restrain you in the use even of things in themselves indifferent : for no man hath liberty to dishonour god , nor to hurt another , ( nor to disobey just power . ) i beseech you therefore while you promise men liberty , be not your self , and make not them the servants of sin , 2 pet. 2. 19. and take notice that liberty must be distinguished as to right , and as to vse , and that the use must often be denyed , and not maintained . 2. let us next see whether there be no way but separation in our case , to preserve our liberty ? paul hath here shewed you another way : 1. by doctrinal defence to defend it against false teachers , that would doctrinally brings us into bondage . to maintain against such as you who add to gods laws , that we are not bound to do that which is not commanded , or to forbear that which is not by god forbidden , though you say we are . 2. to use our liberty as it tendeth to gods glory and mans good , and disuse it when it crosseth these , ( but not deny our right . ) this is the scripture way of preserving it : and not to think that we have no way to preserve it , but by doing hurt , or crossing love by church-divisions . 3. no falshood is a just defence of our christian liberty : but to say , that a true church is no true church , or true worship is no true worship , or that it is not lawful to communicate where it is lawful , is a falshood . therefore it is no just defence of our liberty . sect. 44. e. b. p. 12. 2. being present where those things are used in the worship of god , which god hath not commanded , this would involve us in the guilt and contagion of them : nor do we believe ( however we have your word for the contrary ) the lord will otherwise interpret it ; since he hath so strictly charged us , to keep far from a false matter , and not to partake in other mens sins . r. b. here are two more false doctrines intimated : 1. that to use things in the worship of god which he hath not commanded ( without exception ) is a sin . 2. that being present where they are used , involveth us in the guilt . where note , 1. that it is not part of the worship , but things used in the worship , that he speaketh of . 2. that i proved the contrary to both these at large , and the man saith only that he hath my word for the contrary , and giveth not a syllable of answer to my twenty instances , and many undenyable reasons to the contrary . doth he not either highly esteem his own reason and authority , that thinketh it should be received , if he do but say the word , without attempting to answer what 's said against him : or else doth he not greatly despise his own readers and followers , in taking them for such credulous ductile souls , as will take his bare word without expecting any reason from him to confute what is said on the other side ? or is all this on presumption , that his reader will not know what i have said ? sermon notes , meeters , tunes , printed bibles ( as printed ) and divided into chapters and verses , the words of a sermon or prayer , the particular method , cups , tables , &c. are used in the worship of god without any particular command , or any command for this , rather than that , in cases of indifferency : and yet all these are not therefore unlawful . and i proved that all ministers , and families sin in gods worship , and yet that it is not therefore lawful to separate from them all . if you your self say that you say nothing in preaching or praying but what is commanded you , and that your worship hath no sin , you deceive your self , and the truth is not in you . but if you think it a sin for any to hear you , or have communion with you , why do you not plainly tell your hearers so ? to keep far from a false matter , ( as from writing falshoods by the dozens ) and not to partake of other mens sins , is one thing ; and for children to tell their fathers , or people their pastors , we must not worship god with you , because in forms , words , method , you do something not commanded , yea , because through error you do somewhat sinful , is another thing . sect. 45. e. b. lastly , whatever pretences may be used , for the keeping of peace , yet ( to speak strictly so as to satisfie conscience ) peace is but ill bought , if we must purchase it at so dear a rate as the loss of truth : and this truth concerning the sole soveraign power of our lord christ in appointing all matters of his worship — is a point so necessary to be maintained , and so utterly inconsistent with the supposing that any thing is to be obtruded which he hath not commanded , that we dare not allow our selves in the practice of any thing which may prejudice that fundamental . r. b. 1. how oft have i answered that saying about selling truth for peace , and must hear it again in the old confusion without any notice of what hath been said . see my treatise of infant baptism on that point particularly . do i fell thirty three truths , when i read thirty three untruths in your writings ? do i sell truth , if i should hear you preach or pray erroneously , and impose your confused prayers on the people ? or impose this or that metre or tune on them in singing of psalms ? 2. here you say [ matters of worship ] before it was [ in worship . ] and even the word . [ worship ] is taken so variously , as calls for explication , before we determine whether man may appoint matters of worship : for if you will call [ putting off the hat ] and reverent gestures , in particular , and metres , and tunes , and the method and words of the particular prayer or sermon , by the name of worship , then man may appoint it . 3. it is an untrue supposition , and but a begging of the question , that our presence with any thing obtruded unlawfully , is a prejudice to that fundamental of the soveraignty of christ . all men that sin do sin against his soveraignty : and all that obtrude any thing unlawfully , sin against it by that obtrusion . but if you obtrude a rash and passionate prayer on the people , or an erroneous or disorderly prayer , or an ill-composed hymn or psalm , their presence is no approbation of your error , nor denying of christs soveraignty . do you , or can you believe and make all your followers believe , that the synagogue-worship , and the temple-worship were kept so pure , by the priests , levites , and pharisees in christs dayes , as that there was nothing of humane tradition obtruded ? or nothing but what god commanded ? can you believe this ? or can you believe that christ was not usually or often present there ? see luke 4. 16. at nazareth where he had been brought up , as his custom was , he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day — and of paul its said , acts 17. 2. as his manner was , he went in to them , and three sabbath dayes reasoned — or do you believe , that christ was a sinner ? and that he contradicted his own soveraignty ? what! and yet be a perfect saviour ? who is it now that prejudiceth fundamentalls ? sect. 46. e. b. and we judge we have sufficient warrant from what the apostles did in a like case , acts 15. 24. for if they reproved such as preached up circumcision and other legal ceremonies , at that day , when as the apostles had given them no such commandment , saying of them , that they subverted or spoiled the souls of the disciples , then may we affirm the like of those men now , who in things equally indispensible , do act with every whit as little authority , from whom on that very account we think it our duty to separate . r. b. 1. the authority of the king and lawful magistrates is more about the circumstantials of worship ( as whether abiathar shall be high priest , &c. ) than the false teachers was about that doctrine . 2. the apostles do indeed declare that they sent them not to preach , or not such doctrine : but that 's not the thing on which they lay the great accusation , but on the false and dividing doctrine which they preached . christ saith of one that cast out devils in his name , and followed him not , let him alone ; he that is not against us , is for us : and moses wisht all the lords people were prophets : but these false teachers would have made the keeping of moses law to be necessary to salvation : and can you prove that the minister doth so , whom i use to hear ? do all the parish ministers do so ? can you see no difference between one that saith , the law or cannons command me to use this surplice or form as an indifferent thing : ] and one that saith [ except you do this or that , you break gods law and cannot be saved : except you separate from all parish churches , you sin against god , and prejudice a fundamental ? sure it is one thing to say , god saith this , or binds you to this , or forbids you this ? and it s another thing to say , the king , or the bishop saith it . 3. and what is it that keepeth you from seeing how strongly you confute your self ? is there a word in acts 15. to forbid all church communion with those that taught even this subverting false doctrine ? how many texts be there that intimate that the churches long ( without a prohibition ) held communion with the erronious judaizing christians ? till they grew obstinate , and grew up to a heresie , and were the separaters themselves , and did subvert the gospel and faith of christ . but yet prove that such doctrine is held by our parish churches , and i will leave them : do not the independents offer to subscribe the doctrine of the church of england ? sure then they think its doctrinals to be sound . sect. 47. e. b. by two arguments you labour to defend your irregular way of communion : 1. that in the primitive churches there were many corruptions , which the apostle writes against , but doth not advise any because of them to separate . but i answer — it is not corruption or error barely considered as such , that we account to be a sufficient ground of separation : but the imposing of that error with on high hand , and making a submission to it ( at least in our practice and outward observance ) the very condition of communion : this we say , is a thing which necessitates us to make a separation . r. b. mark that you distinguish not of corruption or error , nor except any , but what is imposed . and when i had answered all this so fully , why will you deign to confute a book , while you disdain to take notice what it saith ? 1. who would have thought that you are so much looser in your communion than we are ? i will separate from that church which in the essential matter ( pastor , or all the flock ) after admonition retaineth such corruption and error , as is directly contrary to any essential point of christianity , though they impose it not on others : but by these words it seems , as scrupulous as you are , you would not separate from hereticks or ungodly ones , if they do not impose their heresie and impiety ! 2. how oft have i urged you to prove , that our publick parish ministers whom i advise men to hear , do impose any more than you your self do ? by choosing what chapter to read , you impose on the people to hear that chapter then or none ? by choosing what place , hour , method , words , ye● , matter , and metre , tune , &c. you impose upon the people to joyn in all these , or not to have communion with you therein . and so our teacher doth by reading common-prayer and wearing the surplice , impose on us to hear him so reading , or to stay away . but he maketh no laws : he commandeth us no ceremony : they are commanded by others , and not by him : and it is not in your own practice of any thing forbidden of god , that i advise men to have communion with such ; but only in gods true worship , though in the circumstances or manner the minister himself , say or do something that is forbidden ; as every teacher in the world doth , though not in the same degree . it is one thing to submit to be present at the worship , which the pastor performeth in some faulty manner : and another thing wilfully to do evil your self , or to approve of his failings or your own . sect. 48. e. b. to which i add only this , that however the presenting our bodies at a worship which we do not inwardly approve of , may render us excusable , and justiste us among men , yet we are sure it will not in the sight of god who hates hypocrisie — r. b. though you confound , i must distinguish the essentials of the worship from the circumstances , and outward imperfections in the manner . i do inwardly approve of the matter or substance of the worship which i joyn in , in the main ; and labour to pray with my heart when i joyn in the common-prayer ; though i consent not to the whole method , nor to the defects . and when i hear a man in free prayer use confusion , disorder , unseemly words , and when i hear one man drop the error of an arminian , or a lutheran , another of an antinomian , another of an anabaptist , another of a separatist , &c. in his prayer , i do not inwardly approve of that error or disorder , any more than of the defects of forms : and yet if it were hypocrisie to be present , i would joyn with no man living . can all your hearers inwardly approve of all that you say , if you preach and pray but as you write ? if they can , its time to pitty them . and are they hypocrites else for joyning with you ? sect. 49 e. b. p. 14. 1. this is clear in scripture , that our lord christ ( who was himself holy and separated from sinners ) did never call or design his church to be an impure mixt body of holy and unholy without any distinction , blended and hudled up together , but — to be an holy separate people — and to depart from unrighteousness . r. b. 1. remember reader , ( for he will not remember ) that but even now he told us , that it is not corruption and error barely as such , that is a sufficient ground of separation , without imposition : and now here is nothing but mixture of holy and vnholy . reconcile these if you can . 2. christ that was perfectly separated from sinners , had yet ordinary communion with sinners in a sinful or culpable manner of performance ( unless the jews were all perfect ) therefore our separation must be such as christs was , in our measure . 3. impurity , and unholiness , and sin is not the matter of gods call , or designment either in the church or out ; but of his permission : but communion with those churches which by permission have sin and impurity in them , is a commanded thing . and they that must depart from iniquity , must not alwayes depart from the worshipping assembly where some unrighteous persons are . your argument , if it be any , must run this : christ did never call or design his church to be an impure mixt body of holy and unholy . the parish churches which you perswade us to communion with , are impure mixt bodies : therefore the parish churches are such as christ never called or designed them to be . suppose we grant you the conclusion : whoever is a sinner is such as christ never called or designed him to be . but your question intimateth that you would argue thus . [ whatever church is such as christ did not call it or design it to be , is not to be communicated with : but all the parish churches are such as christ did not call or design them to be ; ergo — the minor you prove , whatever church is an impure mixt body of holy and unholy , &c. is such as christ did not call or design them to be : but the parish churches are such — but i answer you ; 1. a church is no church that wants the essentials required by christ : but he that will not communicate with church or person that wants the perfection which christ calleth them to , shall communicate with no church or person on earth . 2. the word [ mixt ] is ambiguous ; and implyeth a double act ; one of the impure part , and that christ designeth not , but forbiddeth : the other of the holy , who joyn with some that are unholy ; and that in some cases christ commandeth , and did practise himself . 3. without distinction indeed it should not be : for discipline is appointed to distinguish regularly . 4. take home the argument , and try it on your self . [ whatever church is such as christ did not call and design it to be , is not to be communicated with : but a church that hath an erroneous preacher , or an erroneous sinful people is such as christ did not call or design it to be : ergo — and will you then communicate with any in the world , or any with you ? sect. 50. e. b. p. 14. though through the corruption of men and negligence of church-officers , many ungodly prophane formalists and hypocrites did ( and daily do ) creep in ; yet there is a strict command given to put such out of the church , and turn aside from them — if such are to be withdrawn from , then if any church which is admonished concerning them shall still maintain , abett and countenance them , that church is defiled , and unfit to be communicated with , 1 cor. 5. 7. eccles . 9. 18. heb. 12. 15. r. b. 1. it is only gross sinners , after just admonition upon proof , that are to be put out . the officers ought not to do it without proof . 2. have you or others rightly admonished every parish minister that you call us to separate from , and convicted them upon proof , when you have heard them speak for themselves ? 3. and who gave you authority so to examine other pastors , being but a single person ? 4. we easily grant ( and earnestly desire ) that true church-justice should make a difference : but in case the officers do not their duty , it is none of the peoples duty to separate therefore , haveing done their own part , except in these cases : 1. that the error or crime be so great , as to be inconsistent with christianity , or church communion . 2. that the church do not only neglect it , but deliberately own that error or crime in its aggravated state , as it is so inconsistent with christianity or communion ; not only being consequentially guilty of it , ( as the best man may be of the most heinous sin of another , by some omission of his duty to cure it ) but making it their profession or practice . 3. that this be done , not by some particular members only , but by an essential part of the church , that is , either by the pastor , or by the main body of the people . 4. that this be fully proved , or so notorious as to need no proof . 5. that they be impenitent herein after due admonition : when these five things concur , it is a duty to separate from a church as unfit for christian communion . ( and in lower cases it is a duty to prefer a better , when we can have it . ) but it s much higher ( or lower rather ) that you go : you say [ a church which after admonition and discovery of offenders , will not use her authority to cast them out . ] this may be by mis-information on the sinners side , or by meer negligence , as in eli's case , and may be a great sin , and yet not the same in kind , as that which should be censured ; nor such as will unchurch that church , nor make its communion unlawful to the innocent . as to your proofs , the texts you ▪ cite are all written to the whole churches as churches , who are bid put them away , &c. save that to timothy , and rev. 2. which is to the church-rulers . and it followeth not , that if a church , or church-rulers who have the power of the keyes , are bid to reject or cast out , or not suffer an heretick or wicked person , and to have no fellowship with them , therefore every member is forbidden to have communion with that church in gods worship , unless they cast such a one out . i did by many scripture instances , rev. 2. & 3. & 1 cor. 11. & 15 , &c. prove the contrary , to which you give no answer . 5. let all sober readers note how few in the world we shall have communion with on your terms . how certainly you will turn all churches into strife and bitter envyings , confusion , and every evil work . for railers and covetous among the rest , are those that must be avoided : and if any member of the church shall think that one railer , or one covetous person is kept in unjustly , away they must go , and condemn the church as unworthy of communion . and who will not think that read your book , that you would be one of the first accused of railing ? yea , how few even of the strictest separating churches are they , that neglect not discipline upon some one person ? it may be it may be a rich or powerful man , that will persecute or divide the church if he be cast out ? is there no gathered churches ( as they are called ) that have one railing woman in , or one covetous person ? 6. but sir , our question is not only of the communion of members , but also of strangers occasionally and rarely : and what call hath a stranger to try the discipline of another church ? or what opportunity hath he to know all their members crimes , and to admonish them ? why may not i in my travail communicate with a church whose members and discipline i know not ? at least all parish churches have not been thus admonished by you . sect. 51. e. b. p. 14. lastly , which will fully answer the scruple , it is to be considered , that the primitive churches were setled by the apostles , and constituted according to the divine pattern , having all the ordinances of christ , and true officers rightly established among them ; so that though many scandalous sins did break out , and were visible among some of the members , yet a power was still retained in each church for the keeping themselves pure by casting out offenders ; whereby they were kept to the institution and orders of christ , without any universal innovation or degenerating in those essentials of order as well as doctrine , which they fell into in the ages after ; and when antichristianism ( which was then working ) did manifestly shew it self , not only in rejecting truth , 2 thess . 2. but in imposing error , rev. 13. 16 , 17. then was separation made necessary . r. b. reader , this confused huddle of words it seems is the thing he trusteth to as a full answer to the scruple . but 1. if such churches are to be communicated with , as yet retain all the essentials of office , order and doctrine , then those are to be communicated with , that are now in question : but the former seemeth here intimated by himself , that our said churches have all such essentials , is thus proved . whereever there are true pastors and a christian flock related mutually as such , receiving the holy scriptures as such , there are all things essential to a true church , for office , order and doctrine . but it is so 〈◊〉 the parish churches in question : to stay here to write a particular proof of the validity of the ministers calling , any further than to put the accuser if he can to prove , that any essential part is wanting ( whether in qualification , ordination , or consent ) would be vain , it being done so largely by the old non-conformists . 2. but is there a power retained in such churches to cast out offendors ? answ . yes ; a power divine , or given by christ . remember that ( as i have proved disp . of ordinat . ) men are not the makers of the office of the sacred ministry , nor the measurers or givers of the power ; but only the choosers of the person that shall receive what christ by institution giveth , and the ministerial investers of the person in that power . therefore , whoever receiveth the office of a pastor receiveth the power of the keyes , to take in and cast out ( though not arbitrarily nor ungoverned by himself ) but the parish ministers ( or very many of them ) now in question do receive the office of pastors : therefore they receive the power of the keyes to take in and cast out . if you say that the bishops intend it not in ordaining them : i answer , 1. it sufficeth that christ intendeth it , who is the only maker and giver of the power : the book of ordination maketh them solemnly covenant to give faithful diligence alwayes so to minister the doctrine , and sacraments , and the discipline of christ as the lord hath ●●●manded , &c. and to teach nothing as required of necessity to eternal salvation , but that which they are perswaded may be concluded and proved by the scripture , as containing all such necessary doctrine : and to be ready with all faithful diligence to banish and drive away all erroneous and strange doctrines contrary to gods word : and to use both publick and private monitions and exhortations as well to the sick , as the whole : and to be diligent in prayers and reading the holy scriptures , and in such studies as help to the knowledge of the same , laying aside the study of the world and the flesh . and that they will be diligent to frame and fashion themselves and their families , according to the doctrine of christ , and to make both themselves and them , as much as they can , wholesome examples to the flock , &c. and till lately the said book recited acts 20. 28. to the presbyters at their ordination . and the canon 26. saith [ no minister shall in any wise admit to the receiving of the holy communion any of his cure or flock , which be openly known to live in sin notorious without repentance ; besides what the rubrick saith to that purpose . and now ( though i think this one of the greatest sores which you have touched ) yet judge whether even the laws and canons concede no power to the ministers . 3. but if they did not , the power of office is one thing , and the liberty of exercising it is another : we have power from christ to preach : and if we be silenced and our liberty restrained by men , that proveth us not to be no true ministers . if you mean that no church is to be communicated with where the pastor is hindered by men from the full discharge of his office , you mistake , and can never prove it . 4. they that voluntarily neglect their office ( without hinderance by the force of men ) are more to be blamed than those that are so forced . but in the primitive churches discipline was lamentably neglected voluntarily ; as appeareth in the case of most of the seven churches , rev. 2. & 3. for which they are threatned by christ , and in the corinthians case : yea , corrupted by such as diotrophes . and do you think that the church that hath power to do well , and will not , is therefore to be communicated with because it can ? that is , because it sinneth not through disability , but negligence or wilfulness ? 5. but the core of your erroneous reasoning is behind ; you say , they were — without any vniversal innovation or degenerating in those essentials of order as well as doctrine which they fell into in the ages after , &c. an vniversal degenerating in the essentials even of doctrine and order too , is a big and a sad word : and the time pointed at by you being so early , if i can understand you , you do ( as the seekers ) unchurch the universal church of christ . for if it degenerated vniversally in the essentials of doctrine , it vniversally apostatized from christianity : for where any essential part is lost , the essence and just name is lost . and i beseech you , let not rashness or passion blind you to over-overlook the dreadfulness of this doctrine . 1. if christ had then no church ( as he had not , if the essential degeneration was vniversal ) then he was no king of the church on earth , no lord , no teacher , no saviour of the church ; no intercessor for it in the heavens ? and do you not then dethrone him , and deny him indeed to be the christ ? what , a head without a body ? a king without a kingdom ? 2. so you will make all gods promises of his churches perpetuity , as built on the rock , against which hell gates should not prevail , and of being with them to the end of the world , &c. to be false and fail . and if the whole church failed , and the promises made to it , what particular soul can trust gods promises . 3. if all the church apostatized , how shall we know that apostates did not corrupt all the copies of scripture that are come down to us ? 4. and then the article [ i believe the holy catholick church ] would have been a falshood or error . 5. and then there could be no baptism , no sacrament of the lords supper , &c. 6. and then there must be new apostles with miracles to make a new church . and thus we have mr. williams doctrine , whose story i recited in my last book . sect. 52. e. b. p. 15. [ this necessity of separation which began then continueth still , since our churches , though reformed from popery ( that is , from antichristianism ) in some points , yet are not restored to the primitive pattern and purity . ] r. b. 1. whether by [ our churches ] you mean only the parish churches of godly ministers , or also all the protestant churches , and all other vniversally through the world , i am not sure : but as far as i can conjecture by your words you mean ; all. because you speak of them as in a continuance in part in the vniversal degeneration in essentials ; and you speak of them as avoiding popery but in part , and call them [ our churches , ] and mention no church in the world here that you own as a true church ( and whether any where in all your writings i remember not . ) i confess i pretend not to know the mind of so careless a writer by any words , but very plain ones : but if this be your mind as it seemeth to be , you would do well ( being so bold a man ) to tell the world your mind more plainly : and you that think that no truth is to be sold ( as you call it ) for peace , let independents , presbyterians , separatists , anabaptists , &c. know it , if indeed you think that all their churches are to be separated from , as well as the parish churches . if this be your mind , i suppose you are but a preacher to auditors your self , and not a pastor to any church . he that thinks no truth should be concealed for fear of suffering , should not carry it in darkness and dissimulation to the pastors and churches about him , if really he believe them to be no pastors or churches , or not to be communicated with . but i think that you better deserve to be disowned by them , than they by you . certainly few or no protestant church , that i have known , will say that it is restored to the primitive pattern and purity in degree . if that therefore be your meaning , you do separate from all the churches in the world . but if you mean not , in degree , but in essence , i still challenge you to prove that the churches in question want any thing essential ; or need a restoration to that which they never lost ? sect. 52. e. b. p. 15. [ so that more may be said for separation now ( when whole churches are out of order and corrupt ) than could be at that time when corruption had infected only particular members . ] r. b. 1. is it now come to that ? is it the number corrupted that must decide the case ? who can tell where to find this proteus ? sometime it is the mixture of holy and unholy : sometime it is not bare corruption without imposition : and now it is the numbers corrupted , ( whole churches : ) and in the next sentence — you shall see what ? 2. is the whole church any thing besides the particular members ? is there any other matter ? or any form besides the relation of the particular members ? 3. i challenge you if you can to prove any corruption in the churches in question , which is not consistent with the essence ? i know not so much errour or harm , in the people of the church that i now joyn with , where i live , as paul chargeth on the corinthians or galathians : ( though i suppose the primitive ministry and gifts more excellent than any of ours . ) sect. 53. e. b. [ for it is not , as i said before , corruption barely , no nor imposition barely , that is a sufficient ground for any to separate ( for where some lesser errours are held but not imposed ; or , where only necessary things are imposed , we shall not forbear communion . ) but when errour is once imposed , and by a strong hand forcibly maintained ( notwithstanding all admonitions and endeavours of reformation , ) here we must separate or consent to sin . — r. b. better and better : here it is granted that neither corruption barely , nor imposition barely , will justifie separation . but by corruption and imposition barely seemeth to be meant such formaliter quoad actum , without including the degree of the matter . for it is expounded of [ lesser errours ] held and not imposed ; or of necessary things imposed . so that if it be imposed on us to worship god , it will not prove us no christians : we are beholden to you for this clemency . and if we should mistake a point of genealogie or chronologie it will not un-church us . this is something . 2. well , but what is the crime that maketh our communion unlawful ? [ when errour is once imposed , &c. ] so then ( if you can speak sense ) any errour imposed will do it . what if it be imposed on the church , to use a translation of the bible that hath some errour in ( and is there any without ? ) must that church needs be separated from ? and yet the church that used the same voluntarily ( and therefore more sinfully ) is not to be separated from ? what if erroneously it be imposed on the church to meet at an inconvenient time or place ? what if some flaw or errour in chronologie on smaller-matters , were in their imposed confession , which the pastour erroneously subscribeth to ? it seems an infallible imposing church may be communicated with , and no other . but do you not know that there is a ministerial as well as a magistratical forcing imposition ? every pastour that speaketh as by commission from christ , imposeth somewhat on the people ! he imposeth doctrine , and method , and words in prayer , and times , places , utensils , orders , metres , tunes , as aforesaid . must all these be separated from ( that is almost all the pastors in the world ; ) and is there no remedie ? 3. but perhaps you lay all the stress [ on a strong hand and force ! ] if so , prove that your ministerial imposition of errour in your prayer or conduct , doth not make communion unlawful ; and yet that forcible imposition doth ? as if voluntary reception made less the sin ! prove that the church of the jews was nullified whenever any errour was imposed by authority ! or when the pharisees then in power had corrupted it in christs time by force . if this were your meaning , then separation could scarce be lawful , till there was a constantine , a christian emperour , who ( being not infallible ) might force or impose something amiss , whereas you before talk of an early universal failing , necessitating separation . it seems then that no countries are so unhappy as those that have christian magistrates , who being fallible , impose some errour : and that in all the ages and countries that have heathen or infidel rulers , ( notwithstanding church corruptions not forced ) separation is a sin . 4. but i would fain know , whether it be the imposition , that nullifieth the church , or makes communion unlawful , or only the obeying that imposition ? if it be the imposition , then a heathen prince may nullifie the church at pleasure . if it be only the obedience , then , 1. must it be once obeying or continual ? what if aurelian or dioclesian forbid church-assemblies : will once obeying them nullifie all the churches , or make their communion unlawful ? 2. why will not obeying a minister or de●●ver make it as unlawful as obeying a king ? 3. why doth not the doing it without constraint ( as is said ) make it as unlawful as obedience ? 5. is it the king and parliament , or the bishops whose impositions have this sad effect ? if the former , then ( as is said ) it was 300 years after christ , before separation was lawful . if the latter , then it is not force only that doth it ; and independent , or anabaptist or presbyterian pastors may impose as well as bishops . for the bishops disclaim all coercive power in the church , ( as i have shewed to dr. moulin . ) sect. 54. e. b. the second argument is the example of the former non-conformists , who you say were all against separation , &c. r. b. here you cite a passage of mr. hildershams , that the authority of man is not to be set against gods , and that we may know more than those that went before us , &c. and did not ) i tell you so my self ? who dissenteth from you in this ? bring your proof from scripture against them and us , and we will hear you . or give us but good proof that you are a wiser and better man than they , and are better taught of god , and we will yield this by-reason from authority . but to bring mr. hildershams acknowledgement of gods authority above mans , against mr. hildershams arguments against separation , and his perswasions to come to the beginning of the churches prayers , and to imply that you know more than those worthy men , when you give the world so little evidence of it , doth prove the goodness of your cause as much as it proveth your humility or self-acquaintance . sect. 55. e. b. p. 17 , 18. [ the former non-conformists held arminianisme so fundamental and dangerous an errour , &c. but you do not only speak favourably of it , but also proudly tell us that you are confident , not one of many hundreds , who speak against communion with arminians , do understand what arminianisme is — as if — plain christians could not easily come to know it . r. b. 1. as under church-tyrants all is schisme , which contradicts their schisme , so with some men all is proudly spoken which contradicteth their pride , and supposeth them to be but half as ignorant as they are . 2. were all the non-conformists of one mind about arminianisme ? was not arminius himself against prelacy and ceremonies ? and many of his followers ? who were the great antiadiaphorists in germany , but iliricus , amsdorsius , gallus and other lutherans ? is not mr. dury a non-conformist who hath forty years laboured to bring the lutherans ( who are as far from us as arminius ) and the calvinists to communion ? 3. who would be at the labour to read over the many volumes that are written about pre-determination , free-will , concurse , and grace , by which such ignorant souls as i , cannot to this day tell what they mean , nor in many or most points wherein they differ , when this man , and his plain followers ( women and boyes ) so easily know it ! but like the pope that can infallibly expound the scriptures , but is so wise that he will not do it . le blank , and many more might have spared their pains of right stating the controversies , if they had this mans key . i never yet met with the man that could but make me well understand , what it is that is meant by free-will , nor what by the power which they dispute of , to do good , much less open all their meanings de scientia media , de concursu prae-determinations , &c. but here 's one can easily tell us all . but i warrant him he will not . some men ( alas , and some treachers ) will be wise , and humble , in despight of wisdom and humility ; and christians in despight of love , unity and peace . sect. 56. e. b. p. 18. his own free-will hath not the least power to receive the things of god. r. b. 1. what not sanctified free-will ? 2. what! not a receiving obediential power ? a receiving power is a passive power ( as it is strictly taken . ) hath a free-agent less power to receive grace , than a marble to receive the engraving of the work-man ? doth no man ever receive grace ? or do they receive what they cannot receive ? hath a man no more receptive power than a block or stone ? i know its said [ the natural man receiveth not , &c. ] that is , vnderstandeth not , believeth not , and loveth not in sensu composito : but it s never said , that [ our free-will hath not the least power to receive . ] but i have said so much of this , and the next point ( the badness of nature ) to which he giveth not any answer at all , that i wonder that the man thinks that one that is all tongue and no eares or eyes , is fit for credit or humane converse . sect. 57. e. b. you , jesuite like , are not afraid to say , the scipture tells us not sufficiently and particularly which books in it self are canonical , nor that the various readings are the right , nor whether every text be brought to us uncorrupted . ] r. b. 1. and by implying your assertion of the contrary , you become a false teacher of pernicious doctrine ; as if you designed to make men jesuits or infidels , by renouncing the scriptures , as soon as they find , that these things are not sufficiently there done and thence to be proved , without subordinate testimonies . 2. why do not you save such as dr. j. reignolds , chamier , and others their great labour , and prove out of scripture it self , which of all the various readings mentioned by beza , capelus , and others , and found in various copies , is the right ? and so of the rest ? sect. 58. e. b. so that in effect you do resolve the credit of the holy scriptures into the truth of church-history — which words are so contrary to the true protestant doctrine — so fully agreeing with the doctrine of the jesuits , &c. r. b. 1. as to agreeing with the jesuits fully , &c. all that know their writings , know it is an untruth . 2. true protestants usually say the same things that i do . though you may meet with some few like your self that do not . 3. i have fully opened in the preface to the 2d . edit . &c. of my saints rest , how ambiguous that word [ resolving into ] is , and how far your saying is true or false . he that enquireth what laws are in force in england , must distinguish of these two questions , 1. which are the laws ? which are the statutes in force ? what words are false printed , and what right ? what copies most perfect ? and , 2. what authority are these statutes of ? the authority of them is all resolved into the authority of the king and parliament . but we that are not so wise as you , must be beholden to various copies , records , printers , lawyers , to know which are the statutes in force ? and whether any words be falsly printed ; and if we find so many hundred various readings as be in the bible , we cannot know in every one which is right ▪ and which is wrong , by the bare inspection of the book it self . and , if you have any considering faculty left , and your free-will hath the least power to receive any truth , or stop you in your errour , me-thinks these questions should force you into your witts . qu. 1. shall he that by the book alone can resolve all these doubts , see it in the original , or only in translations ? if in the original , 2. shall he see the autographs or only the transcripts ? or impressions ? 3. if the autographs be not to be seen , but only transcripts , hath god promised unerring infallibility to all the scribes and printers in the world , or to some only , or to none ? 4. if to all ; where is the promise ? if to some , how shall we know them ? if to none , may they not all erre ? 5. when many copies so much differ as they do , is it not certain that some of them erred ? 6. can all women and unlearned persons or ministers , judge by the original transcripts who understand not the original tongues ? 7. must he that shall be certain see all the various copies , or will it serve turn to see some one only ? 8. if he must see all , who is he or she in the world that can be certain ? if they must see many , who knows how many and which ? 9. if they must see but one copy , how shall he know that it is the truest copy that falleth into his hands , and that all that differ from that are false ? do not corrupt copies come to other mens hands ? why then might they not do so to his ? 10. how can he judge of the various readings of all the rest of the copies , which he never saw ? 11. if a translation will serve him to judge of the various readings in the original , are they not in the translation fore-judged of to his hand ? 12. is any man infallible in translating ? is there a promise of infallibility to them ? 13. do not the translations differ ? 14. how shall men know which translation is truest ; ( when none is perfect ? ) 15. must he see all translations that shall judge ? or will one serve ( as aforesaid ) and how shall he judge of those he seeth not ? 16. is it by inspiration from heaven , such as the prophets had , that the true reading must be known ? or to ordinary ( at least sanctified ) reason by evidence in the text it self ? if the former , none but prophets can know it . if the later , you can prove it to a rational or sanctified man , from some intrinsick evidence . for instance suppose a man never saw but two printed english bibles , and was never told which is right by others , and in one is printed , heb. 12. 2. he [ despised the same ] viz. the cross , and in the other [ he despised the shame ] ( for so two of them do differ : ) how shall he prove which printer erred ? 17. do all the men and women that are godly actually know the true and uncorrupt copies and readings , by the book it self without mans testimony ? or what is the name of that one man or woman in the world that you know , who without ever hearing it from man , could tell all the true readings from the false , or could tell that the canticles or ecclesiastes or the book of jonas were canonical , and that the book of baruck , wisdom , and pauls epistle to the laodiceans , and clemens to the corinthians , were not . do you know his name , that ever knew this by reading the bible only , without being ever told it by any ? if not , and if it be sine quâ non to mens receiving of the bible it self , that some one brings it to their hands ; judge how wisely and fairly you deal with poor souls to talk at such a confident and yet confused rate . and , 18. let me ask you one question more ; is it necessary to salvation that men be able to read ? hath god promised it to all or most that shall be saved ? faith cometh by hearing , as the most ordinary way of old : and he that will preach the gospel to most nations under heaven , must convert more than can read , or but a few . and if you preach the gospel to a congregation that cannot read , do you recite all the various readings in the hebrew and greek to them ? if not , can they judge of that they never heard ? if you do , are they ever the wiser as to know of themselves which of them is the right ? 19. but if you say that you suppose not only grace but great learning and study to discern these things , how cometh it to pass that the most learned , studious and godly men do still so much differ about the various readings ? ( as lud. capellus , vsher , heinsius , bootius , de dieu , and others . ) and how come the churches in the ages next the apostles to leave out so many books of the canon as many of them did , while others received them ? and luther , althamar and others , to set no more by james's epistle than they did ? and so many godly men long , and yet , to receive much of the apocrypha ? 20. how durst you that speak so hardly of the jesuits , honour them so much as to make your silly ones believe , that their doctrine in this is no worse than mine , when in so many books , i have left that at large which may confute you ? and you ( wisely ) ask me to tell you whether i will take the jesuits into my communion , because they hold the same with the arminians with whom i will communicate ! so they hold the same with all christians , that there is a god , and a christ and the scripture true ? but it is not for this that i renounce their communion , but for some things else . will you communicate with none that holdeth any thing ( yea any errour ) which the jesuits hold ? or did you dream that the arminians hold all that the jesuits hold ? or did you dream that the arminians hold all that the jesuits hold ? sir , i am ashamed to spend time-upon such triflings ? sect. 59. e. b. the former non-conformists thought there was no possibility of salvation for a papist — but you tell us that you affect not the honour of this orthodoxness . r. b. it is confutation enough of such an accuser to recite the words which he accuseth ; which are [ vnless you do ( as mr. perkins doth to make it good ) be so charitable to all the millions else among them , as not to call them papists , except they practically hold the most pernicious opinions of their councils and divines . i confess i affect none of the honour of that orthodoxness which consisteth in sentencing millions and kingdoms to hell whom i am unacquainted with . ] so that i distinguish of papists properly so called who practically hold all the popish errours , and nominal papists that call themselves such or are called so by others , who know not or practically hold not the pernicious part of their errours : these latter i refused to undertake to judge to hell , and consequently to damn all in france , spain , italy , germany , &c. who are called papists . and if this accuser be more valiant , and dare damn them all , i do not wonder that he dare damn me for not damning them : for he that can eat and digest an oxe , will never stick at one crumme more . but he should not be also so cruel to the reader as to put him to read my words twice over , because he dismembers them , to make them seem to have some loathed sense . sect. 60. e. b. p. 19. the former non-formists said , the filth of nature cannot be sufficiently spoken of ? — but you , &c. r. b. 1. when you tell us in what common confession of theirs they say so , i shall try whether you say any truer than in the rest . 2. reader , i answered him on this point before , by no less than twenty instances , proving that nature may be too ill spoken of , and he saith nothing to any of them , but sings over his old song again . is not this a fine man to dispute with ? sect. 61. e. b. i shall conclude with mentioning one thing more : i affirmed that by flesh you had told us [ war only meant , the sensitive appetite ] this you reply is an untruth and a meer fiction , for you never said so . sir , you had need have a good memory , for you have writ many books ; in which as containing many words , there cannot want much sin and vanity . and indeed had you meditated strictly upon a quarter of what you have writ , you could not be guilty of so strange forgetfulness . for in your premonition to the saints rest you have these very words , [ many think that by flesh is meant only indwelling sin ; when , alas , it is the sensitive appetite that it chargeth us to subdue ; ] for which you quote , rom. 8. 3 , 4 , 5 , &c. r. b. you begin comfortably , with a promise to conclude ; but you proceed sadly . 1. is not the inference as strong against many words in your preaching as in mine and other mens writings , that in many words there cannot want much sin ? 2. you proclaim the aggravation of your sin , when you speak for meditating strictly on what we write . can you heap up untruths in book after book , and commit all these crimes , even when you have strictly meditated what you write ? do you sin so studyedly and deliberately , and yet will you not repent ? 3. reader , if ever thou wilt pitty a poor self-conceited troubler of the church , pitty this poor man , who here openly tells thee , that either he understands not common sense , or else takes no heed what he saith , but bringeth a new untruth to justifie a former , even into the open light , and triumpheth in his act . he telleth you the charge which he undertaketh to prove ; viz. that i have written , that [ by flesh is only meant the sensitive appetite . ] he now undertaketh to prove that i said so , in the premon . to the saints rest ( which is another vntruth ) because i said [ many think that by flesh the scripture meaneth only our indwelling sin , when , alas , it is the inordinate sensitive appetite which it chargeth us to subdue . ] here he first leaveth out several words , especially the word [ inordinate ] because he read not the later editions ; and yet he put in the word [ only ] which the printer in the last editions hath left out , and which openly sheweth the falshood of his charge . is it all one to say , that [ by flesh is meant not only indwelling sin , and to say it is not meant at all ? ] do you think he took any heed of the word [ only ] when he wrote it ? my business ( not in the premonition as he mis-reports , but in the epistle ) was to prove the sinfulness of flesh-pleasing , and that when the scripture bids us subdue the flesh , and make no provision for it , &c. it doth not only mean , subdue the habits of indwelling sin in the understanding and will , and make no provision for them , but also that we must prevent actual sin by subduing the sensitive appetite unto reason , and ruling it by faith , and that even original and habitual sin it self consisteth partly in the inordinateness of that appetite ; and here i implyed this proof from the notation of the name ; q. d. [ if the sin to be subdued be called flesh , then the fleshly appetite is not wholly to be excluded ; for there is some reason why sin is called flesh , rather than spirit . and what can the reason be , but that 1. the sensitive appetite it self is inordinate , and so part of the seat of sin ; and 2. the understanding and will are enslaved to the sense or flesh , and are vitiated with a sinful inclination to serve the flesh or sense it self : and therefore he that readeth in scripture such passages as require us to subdue the flesh , he must not deceive himself by thinking that it is only indwelling sin ( that is in the superiour faculties ) that is meant by flesh , and that the sensitive appetite is not here meant at all , when as 1. original sin it self is partly in the sensitive appetite ; and , 2. actual sin is to be resisted by subduing the sensitive appetite to reason , and bringing the body into subjection as well as indwelling sin . to be extirpated . and if the name of flesh be put upon indwelling sin , from the fleshly interest and inordinate appetite , then surely this it self is not wholly to be excluded , as no part of the sense of the word flesh in scripture . and when my words plainly express this sense , with what face could this man , not only put other words upon me , which were none of my own , but also another sense , and a sense clean contrary to the words ? and this to justifie a former falshood ; and this after that in divers writings i have fully , and plainly disputed of original sin as it ] is the corruption of the superiour faculties ; and in divers books about conversion shewed the necessity of the cleansing and renewing of those faculties ! and here the word [ only ] was before his eyes , a confutation of his calumny ? sect. 62. e. b. and indeed sir , that i may confess a secret to you , this very passage of yours i looked on as so conceited and singular , and many years agoe it gave me so great offence , that i threw away your book upon it , and never would read it over , as not thinking it possible that one who erred in the very entrance in so plain a truth , was able to instruct me in any thing that was worth my knowing . — r. b. 1. the book was written about twenty one or twenty two years agoe , and you are a young man yet : you surely begun very early to be past possibility of being taught any thing by such as i. is this only to declare your humility ? or that you speak evil of the books which you never read ? and that you are the fittest man to be the accuser of them ? 2. it may be there was some early antipathy between our judgements . for i will confess such another secret to you , that about twelve years ago a latine small discourse came to my hand as famed to be yours , against the species of monarchical government , and the arguments against monarchy in it seemed to me such poor injudicious slender stuff , that ( though i did not as you cast away the book till i came to the end ) it was one occasion of my writing the twenty arguments against democrasie , which i put into the book which i have revoked ( my polit. aph. — ) 3. do you not tell the world how fit a champion you are for any truth or reformation , who when you read [ not only indwelling sin ] expound it [ not at all indwelling sin , ] and then glory that you cast away the book as that which could not possibly teach you — . and are you not by this time an excellent scholar and a very wise man , if you did so by all your other books ? sect. 63. e. b. p. 26. i am much confirmed in that judgement of your book , since a person yet living , and one worthy of credit , accuainted me , that when the learned and judicious mr. herle had read that cryed-up book of yours , he told him , it had been happy for the church of god if your friends had never sent you to school . mr. cawdry had the same opinion of it ; and another person as knowing in the mysterie of godliness as either of them told a friend of mine , that notwithstanding the noise about you , you would end in flesh and blood . r. b. 1. a worthy question ! what a book is which you never read ! i will help you out , and mend your cause . you dispraise it that never read it ; and you name some that read it and dispraised it ; and i that wrote it am far from praising it . therefore i hope you are gratified ▪ and who will now contradict you ? ( though i confess for my own part , i think i shall not think my self fit to tell the world in print what any mans book is , at the same time when i confess that i never read it : but you may possibly avoid that way because it is mine . ) 2. but he that employeth you shall miss of his design , of engaging me against the names of mr. herle and mr. cawdrey , and against your unnamed person : it is sufficient to me that i honour their names , and abhort all motions contrary to the laws of christian love ; but i was not bound that they should love or honour me , and if they did not , that is not my sin : but if my sin deserve it , i have farr greater accounts on which to be displeased with that sin . and i do with hearty willingness hear the prophesie of him that told your friend , i would end in flesh and blood , to awaken me the more to the necessary fear and vigilancy , lest his prophesie should prove true . but whether these stories be true or not , it little concerneth me to enquire . if they be not , i pray name not the reporters or witnesses . sect. 64. e. b. you have promised me that you will make no reply — r. b. it was but conditionally [ if you write at the former rates . ] and your alterations ( by venturing to dispute for separation ) have declared me not obliged . and because i fear you were by those words encouraged the more to all your untruths , i will promise you silence no more , though i purpose it . i have done this that you might have a second admonition to repent , and the simple may not believe your multiplyed falshoods : but now , he that will be hereafter deceived by you , let him be deceived . sect. 65. e. b. 20. when you write next i intreat — 1. that you will be short , 2. and significant . r. b. your counsel is prudent sir , but all men cannot attain to your exactness and significancy ! nor will i follow your rule till i see better effects of it . nor pretend brevity for leaving a book almost wholly unanswered , which i pretend to answer as you do : and i will better shew that i understand common english , before i call to others for significancy . sect. 66. e. b. 1. that you will not mistake the thing you write about , but labour clearly to understand the question . r. b. but i will not undertake to make you understand it . sect. 67. e. b. do not ramble and talk of nature as it is pure , when you should write about nature corrupted . r. b. 1. remember that it is not you but i that am the respondent , and had the stateing of the question . here therefore are two more falshoods intimated , 1. that the question was only about nature as corrupted . 2. that i spake of nature as pure , and not as corrupted . for the question put by me was about nature as nature ; and that men should not so speak against the corruption , as to dishonour gods part , nature as nature , nor yet as it is corrupted , to make it worse than it is . so that i spake not of it as pure ; but i spake of it both abstractedly as nature , and also as corrupt . sect. 68. e. b. do not discourse about free-will at large , when you should only handle free-will in the things of god. r. b. this implyeth another untruth , that i did not speak of free-will in the things of god. to forbear the breaking of some of gods laws , and to do somewhat commanded are the things of god : i shew that men have some free-will to forbear murder , adultery , theft , treason , perjury , perfecution , yea , and writing falshoods . if not , why do you cry out of persecution , silencing , atheism , when men have not the least free-will to forbear them ! why do you refuse the imputation of your own untruths , if you have not the least free-will to forbear them ? your words were [ now we see one firm reason to deny the least allowance of free-will in the things of god , since those that hold it in any degree — ] ▪ the synod of dort taught other doctrine : and so doth mr. fenner in his book of wilful impenitence . and in the second sheet of mr. dods sayings , when one had been restrained from swearing at dinner by his presence contrary to his use , he took occasion to shew , that men can do more than they do , and can forbear more evil than they forbear . sect. 69. e. b. and because many professors of christianity are ignorant and injudicious , do not think that therefore you do well to call christians , considered as christians so . these are evident and apparent sophisms which abound in your last treatise . r. b. these are deliberate written words : and if all this be the meer fiction of your brain ; if i have not one syllable that hath any such importance ; nor one word in my books have the least shew of such a thing ; nay , if the clean contrary be most openly and plainly expressed in them , and yet rather than confess your former falshood , you fear not before god and man to second it with this most immodest additional forgery , which hath no cloak , let your reader judge , and let your conscience judge at last , whether repentance was your duty . he that saith christians considered as christians are ignorant , injudicious , &c. layeth his charge on christianity , more than on the men : had you no way to hide your former falshood , but by this impudent forgery that i speak against christianity it self ? had not repentance been a better reparation of your prostituted honour , than this . sect. 70. e. b. do not love to jumble absurd and insignificant phrases together : as to say [ a defective , faulty , true church . ] r. b. reader , if thou expect that he should tell thee , the absurdity or insignificancy of any one of all these words , thou must not put him to so much condescension , but take it on his word , or rest unsatisfied . whether defective , or faulty , be insignificant words , or whether no true church be defective and faulty , if you believe him , perhaps you may hear in his time . sect. 71. e. b. to mention a political , spiritual , constitutive head. r. b. more wisdom still ! which of these is the non-sense ? is it that the pope pretendeth to be a political head ? consult . d. lud. moulins jugulum causae , and all goldastus his three volumes , with chamier , rivet , whitaker , blondel , and all that write against him . or is it that he claimeth to be a spiritual head or governour ? then all his own defenders and all our opposers of him wrong him , till mr. bagshaw came to reform this language : or is it because he claimeth not to be the constitutive head of the church ? ask all those papists that say it is essential to a member of the church to be subject to the pope . reader , is not this man uncharitable , that will neither give us his leave to use our old words , nor teach us better ; but intimate that we speak nonsense , and he can speak better if he would ! we have hitherto been used to call a governed church a political society , as distinct from a meer concourse or community of christians . and why not ? if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 come from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and if god hath prepared for them a city , whose god he is not ashamed to be called , heb. 11. 16. and if it be well said , phil. 1. 27. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and if our political conversations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , be in heaven , why may not a church , at least such a one as the pope doth claim , be called a political body or society ! or at least , why may not the pope be said to lay such a claim ? we have been used to call that government spiritual , which is done by the word and church keyes , and consequently the governours spiritual ? and why must this be non-sense now ? we have been used to call that governour a constitutive head , without whom the society is not essentiated in specie , as a king in a kingdom . o unkind teacher , that will leave us all in this ignorance , and not vouchsafe one word to help us out . sect. 72. e. b. and do not think to excuse your self from writing non-sense , by saying you meant a thing objectively , and not subjectively . r. b. nay then i despair of scaping non-sense ! if the object and the subject must needs be all one , and if sense in the book or argument , and sense or reason in the reader be all one , i am not the first that was deceived : no nor if it be all one to say you understand not the sense or reason of my argument , and [ you have no sense or reason . ] but new lords new laws . sect. 73. e. b. and do not make philosophy ridiculous as you do when you tell us , that our acts of knowing exterior things are as philosophers affirm , objectively organicall , though not efficiently and formally . sir i am sure no wise man talks thus ; and if philosophers do , its time we left them , &c. r. b. when you once begin to say you are sure , and no wise man is against you , i begin to think you talk more ignorantly than when you seem to doubt ; i will not prophane a point so little understood by you , and so much scorned , as to dispute it with you . enjoy your ignorance and scorn . sect. 74. e. b. lastly , when truth is to be examined , and the nature of a thing strictly to be considered , do not argue against it from some ill consequence — as what you desperately urge against the scriptures being a perfect rule , which foundation of faith and practice you labour to overthrow , by tragically infisting on the consequences that will follow — sir this in the end will be found perfect folly and madness ; therefore leave it in time , lest the lord reprove you , and you be found a lyar . r. b. 1. alas , that your pen could write the last word without the more prevalent rebuke of your conscience ? after so many untruths ? yea , and when in the same paragraph you are renewing the same sin ? in saying i deny the scripture to be a perfect rule , when i still say , [ it is a perfect rule so far as it is a rule ! 2. if you intend sense and truth , your argument must run thus [ he that saith the scripture is not a particular rule , commanding the thing in particular , but only a general rule , for the metre and tunes of psalms , for the dividing of it self into chapters and verses , for the hour and place of meetings , for the choice of a text to preach on , and words and method of sermon and prayer , for the naming or determining the person that shall be a pastor , for the form of pulpits , tables , cups , &c. yea , for the making of a clock , or watch , or hour-glass , to measure the time by , or for building the house to preach in , &c. he that saith these are not determined of particularly in scripture , but only under the general rule of doing all things to gods glory , to edification , decently and in order , &c. this man doth deny scripture to be a perfect rule , and laboureth to overthrow the foundation of faith and practice , and proveing what he saith by the ill consequences that else will follow , will in the end be found in perfect folly and madness , reproved by god , and found a lyar : but such a one is r. b. therefore , &c. ] reader , if this be sound doctrine , if after all gods warnings of the danger of levity and ignorant pride , thou canst yet receive such errors and revilings , as a defence of the foundation , thy case also is to be lamented . 3. when def. par . 1. pag. 98 , &c. i had fully described the opinion which i rejected , and had given in fifteen reasons against it , what doth this easie confident disputer , but instead of offering an answer to any one of them , calls it perfect folly and madness so to confute it by ill consequences ? doth this disputing satisfie any sober enquirer after truth ? doth he not reproach his followers in the eye of the world about him , while he thus openly seemeth to expect , that they will rest in such reasonings or replyes as these ? and really if we prove against the papists , that though they directly deny not christ and his office , yet that such consequents will follow upon divers of their errors , will this man that talketh so much of antichristianism , say that it is perfect folly and madness to charge such consequents upon them ? if i prove that any opinion doth consequentially deny god , or the souls immortality , or subvert all our faith , do i deserve no better an answer than that ? this is my perfect folly and madness , and i shall be proved a lyar . what need is there of learning reason , sobriety or modesty to enable any man to dispute and seem orthodox at this rate ? sect. 75. e. b. you may see by this brief taste , how easie it is for me to defend my self — r. b. o wonderful blinding power of self-conceit ! sect. 76. e. b. p. 21. it is not a lessening of your reputation that i mainly aim at : much less at the advancing of my own upon the ruine of yours . but i thought the truth of christ worth my vindicating : and when i saw that your name did stand in the way of it — the whole design of this letter is ( as to others ) to perswade all to look upon you , not only as a fallible , but a mistaken man — r. b. i have long ago done wondering that such men as you can deliberately choose and use such means , when once they have dared to intitle god and his glory to their false doctrines : for what is it that they will not think lawful to do for god and truth ? if some serve him by killing his servants , no wonder if others do it by slandering them , and perswading all to separate from them : and if they say [ rom. 3. 7. if the truth of god hath more abounded through my lye unto his glory , why yet am i also judged as a sinner ? ] but god and truth may be better served by truth . but falshood must by falshood be upheld . but sir my reputation is at your service for an honester use ; but seeing it was but for the destruction of christian love and peace that you designed to make a stepping-stone of it , try whether you be not slipt beside it into the dirt . sect. 77. e. b. i thought it my duty to reprove you , and to see your sin ( and error herein ) in order before you — r. b. i have much more sin than you are aware of , which all such invitations do call me to renew my sorrow for , and vigilancy against : but when i once take the principles of christian love and vnity for sin , and the principles and practice of enmity and division for my duty , i shall then avoid sin as sinfully and lamentably as many in this age have done . sect. 78. e. b. if you will still go on , and under pretence of writing for love , do what you can to keep up a mixed , disorderly , persecuting and imperfect church-state , leaveing us no hope nor possibility of reformation — r. b. 1. this is another implyed untruth , that i keep up a persecuting church-state , when i have written so much more than you against it : yea , that i do what i can to do it ; as if you thought that we can do no more evil than we do , and our power were as small to sin as you make it to be to good . but you will find at last that separating from churches for mixture , and imperfection , and such disorder as we have now in question , and to cloak this with slandering the honest conforming ministers with persecution , who lament it in others , and never practise it ( though i am not one that take them to be blameless ) this will prove a greater hinderance to reformation than a sober peaceable christian conversation will be . 2. and thus unskilful builders do pull down ! did our separations and church-divisions these six and twenty years last past promote our reformation ? wonderful ! that men can yet take that for the reforming way , which hath destroyed reformation , and brought us into all the confusions we are in ? will all this experience teach us nothing ? i will cease wondering at the words , luke 16. 31. if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be perswaded , though one rose from the dead . ] and do you not know how your erronious reasonings and practices do occasion men even to scorn at your talk of reformation ? and if we did not disown you and renounce your errors , and mis-doings , the non-conformists were like to be exposed to common derision for your sake , and accounted a sort of men at enmity with sobriety and peace ; and multitudes were like to be hardened by you into greater evils and enmities than i will name . and can any ignorant mountebanks more mortally and perniciously practise physick , than you thus practise the reformation of the churches ? which are wounded and torn by such reformers ? sect. 79. e. b. my miscalling you learned , judicious , mortified — is indeed the only ( untruth ) which you can justly charge me with — r. b. alas sir , is that sin such a jesting matter ? will you end as you begun ? when you said you had done , will you not have done writing untruths ? when you have no other matter for vntruths , will you make this another , to say that no one of thirty three which i named to you , can be justly charged on you ? — ask any sober impartial man who hath read your book and mine , whether you have cleared your self of any one of them , or spoken any thing that is considerable and probable to such a purpose ? sect. 80. r. b. 23. mr. bagshaw having done , begins again to call me to recant unseemly abuses of mr. brown , and one that a book prefaced by him is written of : and he reciteth both their letters . as to mrs. — letter , i give her this account of my thoughts of her and the book that 's written of her : 1. that i make no doubt but all the holy truth which she hath learned , all the mortification of sin , and reformation of life , all the faith in christ , and love to god and holiness , which is in her , are the true fruits of the spirit of god , and he is a wretched person that will ascribe these to melancholy : 2. and i doubt not but in a melancholy distemper , as satan findeth his advantage for some special temptations , so god can make his advantage to further the sanctification of such a soul . 3. but he that giveth me that book to read , and would have me ignorant that melancholy had a great hand in her fastings , temptations and several conceits , there mentioned , and this after my experience of multitudes in the like condition , yea , when i am still wearied out with the cases of such , from time to time , doth put an utter impossibility upon me : for if my ignorance herein would gratifie such , it is not in my power to be ignorant when i will : but i can bear with it in others . therefore her words [ if this be the effect of melancholy ] go on an untrue supposition . i have told you what were the effects . and her sorrow that [ i am found deriding ] the effects she mentioneth , is the effect of worse than melancholly , as being founded in her untruth . next this woman accuseth me with all these following untruths . 1. that brother browne was the author of that book . answ . not a true word : i only said that it was published by him , as uncontrolled fame affirmed ; ] but not that he was the author : i can find no such word in my writings : if you can , tell me where . and doth not his epistle before it shew that he was one of the publishers ? 2. that i was suddenly moved to go hear mr. baxter . answ . false again : i only said [ was suddenly moved to go into the church ; ] that is , as she was passing by in the street , not knowing who preached . 3. that ought of his sermon had any impression upon me ( which i could not attend to , because i was so terrified with the words of the text , rom. 6. 21. ) answ . false again : i have no such words that ought of my sermon had any impression on her ? but only of the time , that before the sermon was done she oould hardly forbear crying out . 4. that i went away resolved upon a holy life . answ . another mistake : i said only , [ she went home a changed person ; resolved , ( that is , did resolve ) for a holy life . that she went home changed she denyeth not , for her terrours were some change : that she resolved for a holy life , her self and her book profess ; but whether as soon as she went home , or how many dayes after , i never undertook to tell ! but how could she be converted without resolving of a holy life ? 5. that brother browne instructed me in the fifth monarchy principle , whereas he then opposed it . answ . i said [ mr. browne and others were her instructers , who were very zealous for the way called the fifth monarchy , and having instructed her in those opinions , &c. if i did mistake here i recant my errour ; but i will tell you my grounds . 1. that the others were of that opinion as they deny not , so i have heard no others deny . 2. at the publishing of that book , same spake the same of mr. browne and of his companion . 3. the book doth plead for that opinion . 4. his epistle is before the book as a publishing applause of it . 5. he professeth that opinion to this day . and all these appearances might induce such a judgement of him . but if he took it up between the action , and the publication of the book , on what day or week , it is none of my business to declare : he better knoweth those himself . [ 6. that i imposed abstinence upon my self as to meat ( when i would gladly have eaten but durst not , because i apprehended i had no right to the creature being out of christ ) this is all false and untrue ; and i am astonished that mr. baxter should with so much confidence affirm these things . ] answ . 1. the good woman understandeth not that she contradicteth her self : she did not impose abstinence on her self ; but she durst not eat for the reason here given : that is , she did not impose abstinence on her self , but she did impose it for fear upon this reason . these untruths and nonsence in a woman are more excusable than in her teachers : why doth she render a reason why she durst not eat , if by that fear and for that reason she did not impose abstinence on her self ? did any other impose it , or shut her mouth ? is not that our own doing which we give a reason of , and say that we did it through fear ? doth not he that giveth a thief his purse , consent himself to it , and make it his own act to save his life ? if she knew not what she did , why is she angry for being thought melancholy , ( which is many a godly persons case ? ) if she did know , why doth she falsly call it an untruth , that she imposed it on her self ? by this taste you may see that even in well-meaning people the same principles will oft have the same practices , when here are five untruths in this short letter , and four at least of her accusation of my words are visible untruths . but i would know of mr. e. b. or her , whether it be true doctrine , that one out of christ should not eat , because they have no right , and whether almost to consume her self with famine was well done ? if so , must all wicked men do so ? if it be false doctrine ( as undoubtedly it is ) i further ask , whether it was the spirit of god , or satan that was the author of it ? i hope she dare not father sin and falshood on gods spirit : and if it was a temptation of satan ( as it was ) i ask whether to yield so far to a temptation so much against the light of scripture , nature , and self-preservation , in a case so plain that common people know the errour of it , and to proceed so long almost to famishment in that errour and sin , i say , whether this shewed not some flaw at that time in natural understanding and reasoning as well as in grace ? if it did ( as sure it did ) what could it be less than melancholy ? and i hope it was never the mind of mr. jordan , or mr. browne in that book , to father this opinion or practice on gods spirit . i doubt not but god thus oft tryeth his own ; but it is as little doubt but that he oft leaveth them under melancholy as the tempters opportunity and advantage . and its pitty that poor souls should be angry with those that know their case , better than they themselves , and truly pitty them . sect. 81. r. b. i come now to mr. brownes letter ; wherein i will not reckon it ( as it is ) with his untruths , that my [ two last treatises give great occasion to the adversaries of truth and purity to reproach and blaspheme god and his people ] for the man speaketh as his ill cause and principles have made him think . and that this is no more than some of my disciples have suggested to him , whether it be true or false i know not . what men that i have been eleven years driven from , may be drawn to by cruelties on the one hand , and seducers on the other , i can give no account of at this distance : let them answer for themselves . the first untruth i charge him with is that i have uttered many falshoods of himself and others . the case is anon to be tryed . sect. 82. mr. browne . p. 27. [ how the present conformists can be excused from some degree of idolatry remains to be better proved — r. b. an answer to what i said had been more congruous than this put-off . and that you take it for no railing to call almost all christs churches on earth ( even the reformed ) idolatrous , and yet take it for railing to be told that you so accuse them ignorantly , rashly and self-conceitedly , doth but shew the blinding power of selfishness and dividing principles , when there is so vast a disparity , 1. in the matter of the charge . 2. and in the persons charged . that your brother bagshaw liath as you call it , now deceived your expectation and wronged his cause , that is , hath been fain to leave his untruths unjustified , i suppose you cannot deny in consistence with your own expressions . sect. 83. mr. browne . p. 28. [ indeed sir , in two lines there are no less than two vntruths published to the world concerning me : the first is that i am the author and publisher of that book , which is affirmed by him against the most notorious evidence in the world to the contrary : the author mr. timothy jordain — and all that i did was , being desired to write an epistle wherein i acquaint the reader that i am not the author of it , but only did joyne in testimony to signifie what was recorded in the ensuing treatise was true . r. b. reader , wouldst thou think it possible for a man that voluminously accuseth the churches , and chargeth them with idolatry , and had read my detection of his brothers untruths , to face men down with such words as these that i say that which i never said ! i have many times over read my own words , and i can find no syllable of what he saith , that i affirm him to be the author of that book . i only said [ the publisher ] and he addeth [ the author ] as may presently by the readers eye-sight be convicted . i say , [ published by mr. browne as is uncountroledly affirmed . ] and is not this also a rash and careless man , that no better heedeth what he readeth and what he writeth ? and doth he not here declare himself a publisher of it , when he confesseth he put an epistle to it , to joyne in testimony , that what was recorded was true . and is this printed epistle and testimony no publication ? sect. 84. mr. bowne . the second untruth is , that i am uncontrolledly affirmed so to be , when i believe he had never a second in the world that either will or can affirm it . r. b. here are two more falshoods , 1. that it is an vntruth that i said of him . 2. that i said it was uncontrolledly affirmed that he was the author . but that he was a publisher you have now his own confession of his epistle , which i had read , and mr. joseph baker gave me the book , and told me it was published by mr. jordain , and mr. browne , and this report i oft after heard , and it never was controlled to me ; which is all that i can reasonably mean my [ uncontrolled . ] for how is it possible for me to know what is said of him to all others , in every distant place and corner ? sect. 85. mr. browne . as for the book it self and the matter of fact contained in it , i never yet met with any judicious sober christian that had seriously perused it , who durst adventure to pronounce either of the whole or any considerable part of it , that it was an effect of melancholy . r. b. who talkt of the whole ? but what part you will call considerable who knows ? is not this a concession that some part is so judged of ? and must your ignorance of such matters as melancholly have so great influence into your divinity ? but you may say true , for most now adayes converse with few but those of their own mind . and the book is not to be got in any shop that i can hear of . sect. 86. mr. browne . whether this decrying of experiences , this slighting the work of gods spirit in the soul , the crying out that these things are but the effects of melancholy , be not the ready way to make all supernatural conversion derided , and the whole mysterie of godliness contemned — consider — . r. b. 1. here is implyed a fourth untruth , that i decry experiences , and the rest here mentioned . 2. alas , must the poor church of christ have such miserable guides , that build hay and stubble , and think if it be burnt the church must fall ! i tell you sir , such rash and ignorant teachers , as your writings shew you to be , are the men that do so much towards the very same effects which you seem to fear , even to tempt men to deride all supernatural conversion , as that i scarce know a more powerful way . if you heard one man say [ satan as an angel of light stirred up the quakers to pretend miracles , prophesies and spiritual raptures , purposely to tempt the world to infidelity , by perswading them that the spirit in the prophets and apostles was but the like ] and if you heard james naylor say , [ your calling the spirit in us a vain imagination or deceit , is the way to perswade men that the spirit in the prophets and apostles was but imagination and deceit ; ] which of these two sayings would you believe ? i take the case which i spake of to be the like . i tell you still , that all the truth and goodness that your book mentioneth truly , was wrought by the spirit of god. but if men will make the world believe that any false doctrine , or any sin , or any false exposition of scripture is of the spirit , or that their unproved impulses which are not agreeable to the word , but are against it or besides it , must be believed to be of god , and will describe these as experiences and gods way of converting souls , their ignorance will as effectually serve the devil to bring true conversion and the spirit into scorn , as the derisions of a drunkard will do , if not more . it is no new thing for satan to deceive as an angel of light , and his ministers as ministers of righteousness . and if you know not his wiles , expect not that we should all concur with you in exposing spirituality and holiness to the scorn of such as now abhorr it , or as of late have taken such advantages against those that are better than themselves . sect. 87. r. b. whether you instructed her in those principles you know best : if you deny it , i retract it . that you were very zealous in them is past doubt ; but just the day when you began , whether before that book was begun , or before it was finished , or when , i leave to your own report . sect. 88. mr. browne . indeed it is now my opinion that there is a glorious state of the church yet to come , before the last end of all things , when all oppression and oppressours shall cease , and every thing of man shall be laid down in subserviency to the interest of christ , and the kingdom of the world shall become his . r. b. amen! it is my earnest desire as well as yours ; but desire and belief are not all one . the prophesies that you suppose foretell all this , i thought i almost understood thirty two years agoe ; but since i perceive i did not : but i contradict not that which i do not understand , nor never did . who will plead for oppression ? and what christian desireth not the greatest holiness and righteousness in the world ? i freely confess my ignorance in the point , whether on this side the general resurrection , there shall be so perfect and universal righteousness as you describe , as that all oppression shall cease . my greatest hope is in the three petitions of the lords prayer , thy name be hallowed , thy kingdom come , thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven : and i am sure this will warrant my desires . and i the better like those opinions of a perfect age , because hope will set men upon praying for it . but as i detest all rebellions against just authority on pretence that they are not truly godly , and all setting up mens selves on pretence of setting up christ , and using unlawful means on pretence of good ends , so i am afraid of being tempted down from the heavenly hopes and comforts , by looking for more on earth than is indeed to be expected . sect. 89. mr. browne . p. 29. [ he tells us first that she was suddenly moved to come to hear him preach — r. b. a meer untruth : as i have before shewed . i said not so . sect. 90. mr. browne . that she had such convictions from his sermon ( for so he seems to intimate , ) &c. r. b. untrue again : as is before shewed : nor will your seeming salve it . sect. 91. mr. browne . that she desired to speak with him is another untruth . r. b. of that i shall speak anon . sect. 92. mr. browne . that she did impose on her self abstinence from meat — r. r. here he contradicts himself as she did , and saith she durst not eat , and yet falsly chargeth me with untruth for saying the same sence . sect. 93. mr. browne . lastly , she never fell in so among the quakers as to be one of them ; though it is true that through the power of temptations she was somewhat enclined to them . r. b. here he untruly intimated that i said more , who never said so much ; but only that she thought they lived strictlyer than we , and fell in among them . and now reader i shall again tell thee my reasons for all that i said of her . mr. joseph baker then preacher in worcester ( a man of unquestionable prudence and credit , now with christ ) told me all that i have said of this woman , and that she had not been at church of a long time before , and was passing along the streets , and was suddenly moved to go in to the church at lecture time ; and that she was struck as aforesaid at the hearing of the text , and before sermon was done could hardly forbear crying out in church ; and that she had on the conceit of their strictness faln in among the quakers ; and been often at their meetings ; but hearing them speak against scriptures and ministers was troubled , and thought that they spake that which her experience would not suffer her to consent to : and that she was like in these perplexities to fall into great melancholy , and her body also to be weakened by the troubles of her mind , and that through his motion or perswasion she was desirous to speak with me : i had no reason to deny belief to him : when i came next to his house the gentle-woman came to me , and he and she together repeated the substance of all this again , and she spake not a syllable against it : and speaking a few words to disswade her from the quakers in haste , i never saw her more : the said mr. baker told me after of all her sad and melancholy abstinence and weakness , and of mr. browne and mr. jordanes frequency with her ; and shortly after shewed me the book , with mr. brownes epistle to it , and told me that which they now thus quarrel with , that mr. browne was one of the publishers of it , and was for the doctrine in it . though i discerned by the book that she her self was taken with that point . these things i long heard affirmed and confirmed , and never contradicted till this day , and now you hear that the timeing of mr. brownes opinion and endeavours , is all that they can say any thing against themselves . and thus much i thought meet to say against their rash occasions on this by-occasion . sect. 94. r. b. p. 30. i have not yet done with mr. bagshaw : he comes on again in a postscript with more untruths ; and first he tells you how little commendation it is to my honesty to have yet such easie access now to the licensers and press that he can print two books before another man can publish a few sheets — answ . 1. i never spake with the licensor , nor saw him ; and if neither of those two books were licensed ( when he wrote this at least ) is not this still a fearless heedless man ? 2. is not honesty among these men become a word of a new signification ? and is it any wonder if our dishonesty make us unworthy of their communion , when our honesty is questionable for the licensing of our books ? if it be a sign of dishonesty to do any thing which our rulers will but allow of , it may next be dishonesty to speak any thing that they think worthy to be believed , and to preach the gospel if they do but allow it . and may not your honesty be as reasonably questioned because you are suffered to preach ? sure the licensers are not so bad men , as to prove all dishonest whose books they license ? sect. 95. e. b. his last book about the sabbath — might have been wholly spared , dr. owen having judiciously and accurately handled that question before him . ] r. b. 1. the wisdom from above is without partiality and without hypocrisie . was it a blot on dr. owens honesty that his books are licensed ? o forgetful man ! 2. who made the law , that no man must write on a subject after dr. owen ? was dr. owen to be blamed for needless work , because he wrote on the sabbath after dr. bound , dr. young , dr. twisse , mr. eaton , mr. bifield , mr. shephard , and many more ? 3. mine was written and in the press before dr. owens was abroad : ( though i had before seen mr. hughes his accurate treatise that then came out . ) sect. 96. e. b. his last book about the sabbath — doth make so full a discovery of mr. baxters spirit in pleading for saints dayes , ( that is , for will-worship . ) r. b. 1. remember , reader , that it is my own book , and not his , that discovereth my spirit . fetch thy judgement of it thence and spare not . 2. and if thou find cause to put down the commemoration of the powder-plot or such other dayes for fear of will-worship , do not therefore renounce all see houres for secret and family-prayer and lectures ; it being equally will-worship to appoint a set hour as a set day , which god in scripture hath not appointed . sect. 97. e. b. [ and in atheistically arguing against the ▪ * divine and self-evidencing authority of the holy scriptures ( which he doth for many pages together ) that henceforth i hope he will no longer be a snare , but justly he rejected of all as one of the worst sort of hereticks ; since under the notion of being a christian and a protestant , * be doth with his utmost ▪ industry and cunning labour to overthrow our foundation , in that he puts the credit of scripture on the truth of history , and * denies any certainty but what may be gathered from that : which dangerous doctrine i could not but warn thee , christian reader , as thou lovest thy peace and comfort , as well as the truth of christ , that thou wilt diligently beware of . and i must leave it to thee to judge , whether that conformity which such a person pleads for , is not justly to be suspected . r. b. here are three more visible untruths in point of fact , 1. that i argue against the divine authority of the scripture ; yea or the self-evidencing either ; which i have written for at large in three several treatises . 1. in the 2d part of my saints rest . 2. in a book called the unreasonableness of infidelity . 3. in my reasons of the christian religion , most fully : but never wrote a word against it . 2. that i do with my industry and cunning labour to overthrow our foundation : hath this man written more for the foundation than those three books ? 3. that i deny any certainty but what may be gathered from the truth of history : for which he citeth not one word in which i ever said so , nor can : but the contrary is legible in the forecited volumes , at large . as to the matter of his accusation i will not here write another book , to tell men what i have written in the former : read my own words , even those he accuseth , and my treatise for the christian religion , and judge as you see cause ; but for them that will believe him to save them the labour of reading it in my own books , as if another man were liker to tell rightly what i have written than the books themselves , i leave them to judge , and do as they are , and as such men lead them . and how far tradition or history , or humane aide and testimony is necessary to our reception of the scripture , i have long agoe opened at large in the preface to the second part of my saints rest , and shewed you that dr. whitaker , chemnitius , davenant , rob. baronius and other protestants usually say the same that i do , and that otherwise by casting away such subordinate means , proud-ignorance and pievish wrangling will cut the throat of faith it self , and undermine the church of god. reader , i will conclude also with an admonition as my accuser doth ; as thou lovest christianity , scripture and thy soul , take heed of those ignorant destroying-defenders of the scripture , who would tell the infidel world , that they may continue infidels till we can prove , that the scripture alone by its own light , without humane testimony , history or tradition , will bring it self to all mens hands without mans bringing it , and will translate it self , without mans translating it , or in the original tongues will make all english men , and all that cannot read at all , to understand it ; or being translated will tell you sufficiently which is the true translation ; and where the translater failed ; or will tell you among many hundred divers readings which is the right , and which copy is the truest , and which particular text is uncorrupted , or rightly translated ? for instance , whether it should be in luke 17. 37. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in matth. 24. 18. and beza saith , in uno exemplari & apud theophilactum scriptum est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est cadaver ; sicut etiam in nonnullis codicibus testatur selegisse erasmus ; videturque haec lectio magis accomodata , &c. hundreds of such may be named . and believe not these men till they can name you one man that ever knew before some man told him , by the book alone whether esther and the canticles were canonical , and the book of wisdom and pauls epistle to the laodioaeans apocryphal ; and knew what was the sense of the original text , and what copies , and readings , and translations were true , and what false ? yea or that knew these particular books were the same that the apostles wrote , without alteration , till some one told it them ? would not that man reduce the church into less than one single person , who would have no man believe the scripture , nor take it for gods word , till he can do it without any help of man , or humane history , or testimony or tradition ? but of this i put him twenty questions before . it shall now suffice to tell you this much of the plain truth , that such furious false teachers as shall take the foresaid course may not utterly subvert your faith . the scripture and christian religion taken together as one frame or body , hath that in it self which may prove that frame , and all the essential parts of our religion to be of god ; and the true proof of the divine authority of the scripture , is by the evidence of the spirit ; not a new revelation of the spirit ; but by a double impression of gods own image made by the holy ghost , one upon the scripture it self , the other by the scripture in its continued efficacy on belivers souls : and both these images are the impresses of the trinity of divine principles , even of the power , wisdom , and goodness of god ; which are unimitably done in both . this is the true proof that scripture is the word of god. but this proof excludeth not but supposeth the ministry and testimony of man as a subservient help and means ; even to bring it to us , to translate it , to teach us how to know both the sense and verity of it , and to testifie which is the true canon , copies , reading , translation , &c. and they are ignorant subverting deceivers and destroyers of your souls , who would separate the word , the spirit and the ministry which christ hath conjoyned as necessary together for your faith : and that would cast out subservient helps as unnecessary under pretence of the sufficiency of the scripture . as if printing it were needless , because scripture is sufficient of it self . and the fore-said self-evidencing light is not sufficient without humane help and testimony to make you know every canonical book from the apocryphal , nor to know the truest copies in the original , nor the rightest readings , nor this or that particular verse , to be uncorrupted ; nor the translation to be true , nor this or that to be the true meaning of the greek or hebrew word ; nor that the minister readeth truly to the unlearned that cannot try it by his own skill , nor read himself . and he that would make the contrary supposition to be the foundation of your faith , would destroy your faith , the church and you . postscript . reader , since the writing of this , two things have faln out which make it a more displeasing work to me than it was before ; and i am sorry that mr. bagshaw made it necessary . the one is , that ( as the current report saith ) he is again in prison , for refusing the oath of allegiance : and i naturally abhorre to trample upon a suffering person ( which hath caused me to say so little against the armies and sectarian miscarriages since their dissolution and dejection in comparison of what i did before in the time of their prosperity . ) the other is , the printing of the life of mr. vavasor powel , which hath so many good things in it , that i fear lest the mention of his false prophecies ( extorted by mr. bagshaw , who first published also his name as the author of them ) should abate their exemplary use . but yet i must give this notice to forreigners and posterity , that they must not judge either of the judgement or the sufferings of the non-conformists by these mens : it is not for refusing the oath of allegiance that they are silenced , and suffer as they do : nor do they consent to the words which conclude the life of mr. powel , that since such a time he hath learnt that we must pray for our present rulers as sinners , but not as magistrates . no man can truly say that such doctrines as these have been proved against any considerable part of the ministers that are now cast out , or that they were deposed and silenced for such things , seeing they commonly take the oathes of allegiance and supremacy . and how far the ejected ministers of scotland are from the principles of separation , mr. browne a learned scottish divine hath shewed in the preface of a learned treatise newly published in latine against wolzogius and velthusius , ( even while he saith most against receding from a reformation ; ) overthrowing the tenents maintained by our two or three english brownes , which formerly were called brownisme . ( though the same mans numerous reasonings against the derivation of the magistrates office from the power of the mediator , i waite for leisure to refell . ) finis . errata . in the contents , page . 2. sect. 24. for meant , r. recant . sect. 5. p. 5. after and , adde into . epist . p. 4. l. 27. for that , r. and. p. 41. l. 2. r. writings shew . p. 43. l. 22. for quod , r. quid . p. 86. l. 15. r. and by mr. eliot . p. 93. l. 12. for confirmed , r. confined . p. 100. l. 1. r. have not . p. 105. l. 21. for designe , r. deigne . p. 120. l. 9. for your , r. their . p. 146. blot out the two first lines ( repeated ) p. 181. l. 16. for occasions , r. accusations . less litteral errours are past by . but i have one thing more to advertise the reader of , that i was too blame to believe mr. bagshaw in his recitation of my own words , in his pag. 5. where he saith that [ of cromwell himself , though he dyed in his sinful usurpation without manifesting any repentance , i give this saint-like character in my pref. to the army , the late protector did prudently , piously , &c. exercise the government . ] having noted that i spake against oliver a few leaves distant , i too rashly believed mr. bagshaw that this passage was spoken of him too . but upon perusal i find it is most notorious that i spake it of his son , when the army had brought him to a resignation , which any man may see that will peruse the place . hereafter therefore i will not so hastily believe so common a — in what he writeth of the most visible subject , of my self or others . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a27032-e3690 1st . false doctrine . 1st . falsehood ( in fact . ) second false doctrine . third false doctrine . second falshood . 1. crime . a slander of many hundreds . 3. falshood . 2. crime : justifying or excusing sin under judgements . 3. crime taking a call to repentance for a heinous wrong . 4th . false doctrine . 5th . false doctrine . 4th . visible falshood . 5th . visible falshood . 4th crime . impudent calumny . 6th & 7th falshoods . 8th falsehood . 9th falsehood . 10th notorious falshood and a calumny . 11th and 12th falsehood and calumny . 5th crime , calumniating insinuation . my word to the army heretofore . 13th & 14th falshood . 6th rash calumny . 15th falsehood . 7th self-condemning calumny . 16th , 17th , 18th , 19th , and 20th visible falshoods . 21st falsehood implyed . 22d . falsehood implyed . 8 self confutation & calumny . 23d falsehood . 24th self-d●clared falshood . 24th falsehood , and a calumny repeated . 25th and 26th falsehoods . 9th crime , rejecting and slandering readful warning . 10th crime self-denying . 11th crime excusing false prophecying to the dishonour of gods spirit . 12th crime paralleling false prophecies with the prophets words in scripture . 13. crime , scrip●ures eluded . 14 crime , duty reproached , and scandal made a duty . of pride . the reasons of my publick communicating . 27 , 28. & 29. visible untruths . 15. crime , impudency in calumniating . of justification . 16 crime , resisting and reproaching other mens labours for the service of god , and the good of souls , with confidence in notorious falsehood . of much writing . the case , of separation ! self-condemnation . 30th and 31st visible untruths . 32d & 33d untru●hs . blind sophistry and palpable fallacy . how a parish church is or is not part of a diocesane church . the same fallacy with an untruth . whether a parish minister be but a servant to the diocesane . whether all the parish ministers consent to persecution . slander . of reproving sharply the sins of others . narrow communion . mr. bagshaw obligeth me to reprove him sharply , left i be guilty of his sin . all sinners are not to be separated from . 6th false doctrine . 34th falshood and slander . 35th falshood . 7. false doctrines at lest implyed . q. 1. whether it is an indispensible duty to maintain all our christ●an liberty , or what ? luke 14. 18. isa . 61. 1. 2 pet. 2. 19 , 20 , 21. act. 18. 26. 2 tim. 2. 26. 2 cor. 3. 17. heb. 2. 14 , 15. gal. 4 ▪ 3 , 9. romans 8. 15 , 2. iohn 8 ▪ 31 , 36. romans 6. 16 , 18 , 22. q. 2. whether there be no way but separation , to preserve our christian liberty ? 8. false doctrine . 9. false doctrine . whether not separating be prejudicial to a fundamental , viz christs soveraignty ? the case acts 15. acts 15. against the sparatists . mr. bagshaw's too loose communion with all hereticks that impose not . his own imposing . of approving what we joyn in . whether he be an hypocrite , who joyneth with any manner of worship which he approveth not ? self-contradiction . whether no church may be communicated with that is not such as christ called and designed it to be ? when a church is to be separated from for approving sin ? 10. f. doctrin 11. dreadful false doctrine . read and fear the tendency of separation . mr. william's doctrine . more of the causes of separation . boasting ignorance . 12. false doctrine and pernicious . 36th untruth . whether the true reading and uncorruptness of particular texts be sufficiently known by the light of the scripture alone ? a lame deceitful recital , and 17. crime , cruel judging millions unknown without a call. 18. crime justifying a falshood , while you openly your self detect it . 37. untruth implyed . 38. & 39. untruths implyed . 40. untruth implyed . 41. untruth , notorious . wisdom and humility in the dark . phil. ●● 26. 42. untruth 43. untruth 44 untruth ▪ 1. untruth of mrs. — 2. untruth . 3d untruth . 4th untruth . 5th untruth . 1st . untruth . 2d untruth . 3d untruth . 4th untruth . see jer. 28. 6. 5th untruth . 6th untruth . 7th untruth . 45th untruth by e. b. a new sort of honesty . envy and partiality . superstition . * 46th untruth . * 47th untruth . * 48th untruth . the self-evidencing light of scripture , what it is . of schisme the true nature of it discovered and considered, with reference to the present differences in religion. / by john owen d.d. owen, john, 1616-1683. 1657 approx. 432 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 141 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a90276 wing o780 thomason e1664_2 estc r203088 99863169 99863169 115353 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a90276) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 115353) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 208:e1664[2]) of schisme the true nature of it discovered and considered, with reference to the present differences in religion. / by john owen d.d. owen, john, 1616-1683. [2], 280, [2] p. printed by l.l. for t. robinson, oxford, : anno dom. m.dc.l.vii. [1657] annotation on thomason copy: "different from ye former"; "june 17". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng schism -early works to 1800. 2007-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-11 elspeth healey sampled and proofread 2007-11 elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion of schisme the true nature of it discovered and considered , with reference to the present differences in religion . by john owen d. d. oxford , printed by l. l. for t. robinson , anno dom. m. dc.l.vii . of schisme . cap. i. aggravations of the evil of shisme , from the authority of the antients . their incompetency to determine in this case ; instanced in the sayings of austine and hierome . the saying of aristides . judgement of the antients subjected to disquisition . some mens advantage in charging others with schisme . the actors part priviledged . the romanists interest herein . the charge of schisme not to be despised . the iniquity of accusers justifys not the accused . severall persons charged with schisme on severall accounts . the designe of this discourse in reference to them . justification of differences unpleasant . attempts for peace and reconciliation considered . severall perswasions hereabouts , and endeavours of men to that end. their issues . it is the manner of men of all perswasions , who undertake to treat of schisme , to make their entrance with invectives against the evills thereof , with aggravations of its heinousnesse . all men whether intending the charge of others , or their own acquitment , esteem themselves concerned so to doe . sentences out of the fathers , & determinations of schoolemen , making it the greatest sinne imaginable , are usually produced to this purpose . a course this is which mens apprehensions have rendred usefull , and the state of things in former dayes easy . indeed whole volumes of the ancients , written when they were actors in this cause , charging others with the guilt of it , & consequently with the vehemency of men , contending for that , wherein their own interest lay , might ( if it were to our purpose ) be transcribed to this end . but as they had the happines to deale with men evidently guilty of many miscarriages , and for the most part absurd ad foolish , so many of them having fallen upon such a notion of the catholick church and schisme , as hath given occasion to many woefull mistakes , and much darknesse in the following ages , i cannot so easily give up the nature of this evill to their determination and judgement . about the aggravations of its sinfullnesse i shall not contend . the evidence which remaines of an indulgence in the best of them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this businesse especially , deters from that procedure . from what other principle were those words of augustine ; obscurius dixerunt prophetae de christo quā de ecclesia : puto propterea quia videbant in spiritu contra ecclesiam homines facturos esse particulas : et de christo non tantam litem habitutos , de ecclesia magnas contentiones excitaturos . conc. 2. ad psal . 30. neither the affirmation it selfe , nor the reason assigned can have any better root . is any thing more cleerly and fully prophesy'd on then christ ? or was it possible that good men should forget with what contests the whole church of god all the world over had been exercised from its infancy about the person of christ ? shall the tumultuating of a few in a corner of africk , blot out the remembrance of the late diffus●on of arrianisme over the world ? but hierom hath given a rule for the interpretation of what they delivered in their polemicall engagements ; telling us plainely in his apology for himselfe to pammachius , that he had not so much regarded what was exactly to be spoken in the controversy he had in hand , as what was fit to lay load upon jovinian . and if we may believe him , this was the manner of all men in those dayes . if they were engaged they did not what the truth only , but what the defence of their cause also required . though i believe him not as to all he mentions , yet doubtlesse we may say to many of them , as the apostle in another case ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . though aristides obteined the name of just , for his uprightnesse in the management of his own private affaires yet being ingag'd in the administration of those of the common-wealth , he did many things professedly unjust ; giving this reason , he did them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . besides , the age wherein we live , having by virtue of that precept of our saviour , call no man master , in a good measure freed it selfe from the bondage of subjection to the dictates of men ( and the innumerable evills with endlesse intanglements thence insuing ) because they lived so many hundreds of years before us ; that course of procedure , though reteining its facility , hath lost its usefullnesse , and is confessedly impertinent . what the scripture expressly saith of this sinne , and what from that it sayth , may regularly & rationally be deduced ( whereunto we stand and fall , ) shall be afterwards declared . and what is spoken suitably thereunto by any of old , or of late , shall be cheerfully also received . but it may not be expected that i should build upon their authority , whose principles i shall be necessitated to examine . and i am therefore contented to lye low , as to any expectation of successe in my present undertaking , because i have the prejudice of many ages , the interest of most christians , and the mutuall consent of parties at variance ( which commonly is taken for an unquestionable evidence of truth ) to contend withall . but my endeavours being to goe , non quà itur , sed quà eundum est , i am not sollicitous about the event . in dealing about this businesse among christians , the advantage hath been extreamly hitherto on their part , who found it their interest to beginne the charge . for whereas perhaps themselves were , and are of all men most guilty of the crime , yet by their clamarous accusation , putting others upon the defence of themselves , they have in a manner cleerly escaped from the triall of their own guilt , and cast the issue of the question purely on them , whom they have accused . the actors or complainants part was so priviledged by some lawes and customes , that he who had desperately wounded another , chose rather to enter against him the frivolous plea , that he received not his whole sword into his body , then to stand to his best defence , on the complaint of the wounded man. an accusation mannaged with the craft of men guilty , and a confidence becoming men wronged and innocent , is not every ones worke to sleight & wave . and he is in ordinary judgements immediately acquitted , who averrs that his charge is but recrimination . what advantage the romanists have had on this account , how they have expatiated in the aggravation of the sinne of schisme , whilst they have kept others on the defence , and would faine make the only thing in question to be , whether they are guilty of it or no , is known to all . and therefore ever since they have been convinced of their disability to debate the things in difference between them and us , unto any advantage , from the scripture , they have almost wholly insisted on this one businesse , wherein they would have it wisely thought , that our concernment only comes to the triall , knowing that in these things their defence is weake , who have nothing else . nor doe they need any other advantage . for if any party of men can estate themselves at large in all the priviledges granted & promises made to the church in generall , they need not be sollicitous about dealing with them that oppose them ; having at once rendered them no better then jewes solis nosse deos & coeli numina nobis and mahumetans , — out solis neseire datum . heathens or publicans , by appropriating the priviledges mentioned unto themselves . and whereas the parties litigant , by all rules of law and equity , ought to stand under an equall regard , untill the severalls of their differences have been heard and stated ; one party is hereby utterly condemned before it is heard : and it is all one unto them , whether they are in the right or wrong . but we may possibly in the issue state it upon another foot of account . in the meane time it cannot be denyed , but that their vigorous adhearing to the advantage , which they have made to themselves ( a thing to be expected from men wise in in their generation ) hath exposed some of them , whom they have wrongfully accused , to a contrary evill ; whilst in a sence of their own innocency , they have insensibly slipt ( as is the manner of men ) into slight and contemptible thoughts of the thing it selfe whereof they are accused . where the thing in question is but a name or terme of reproach , invented amongst men , this is incomparably the best way of defence . but this containes a crime ; and no man is to set light by it . to live in schisme , is to live in sinne ; which unrepented of , will ruine a mans eternall condition ; every one charged with it must either desert his station , which gives foundation to his charge , or acquit himselfe of the crime , in that station . this latter is that , which in reference to my selfe , and others , i doe propose : assenting in the grosse to all the aggravations of this sinne , that with any pretence from scripture or reason are heaped on it . and i would beg of men fearing god , that they would not think , that the iniquity of their accusers doth in the least extenuate the crime whereof they are accused . schisme is schisme still , though they may be unjustly charged with it ; and he that will defend and satisfy himselfe by prejudices against them , with whom he hath to doe , though he may be no schismatick , yet if he were so , it is certaine he would justifye himselfe in his state and condition . seeing men on false grounds and selfe interest may yet sometimes mannage a good cause , which perhaps they have imbraced upon better principles , a conscientious tendernesse and feare of being mistaken , will drive this businesse to another issue . blessed is he who feareth alwayes . it is well known how things stand with us in this world ; as we are protestants we are accused by the papists to be schismaticks . and all other pleas , and disputes neglected , this is that which at present ( as is evident from their many late treatises on this subject , full of their wonted confidence , contempt , reviling , & scurrility ) is chiefely insisted on by them . farther , among protestants ; as being reformatists , or as they call us calvinists , we are condemned for schismaticks by the lutherans & sacramentarian sectarys , for no other crime in the world , but because we submit not to all they teach ; for in no instituted church relation would they ever admit us to stand with them ; which is as considerable an instance of the power of prejudice , as this age can give . we are condemned for separation , by them who refuse to admit us into vnion . but what hath not an irrationall attempt of enthroning opinions put men upon ? the differences nearer home about episcopall goverment , with the matter of fact , in the rejecting of it , and somewhat of the externall way of the worship of god , formerly used amongst us , hath given occasion to a new charge of the guilt of the same crime on some ; as it is not to be supposed , that wise and able men , suffering to a great extremity , will oversee or omit any thing , from whence they may hope to prevaile themselves against those , by whose meanes they think they suffer . it cannot be helped ( the ingagement being past ) but this account must be carryed on one step farther . amongst them who in these late days have engaged ( as they professe ) into reformation ( and not to believe that to have been their intention is fit only for them , who are concerned , that it should be thought to be otherwise , whose prejudice may furnish them with a contrary perswasion ) not walking all in the same light as to some few particulars , whilst each party ( as the manner is ) gathered together what they thought conduced to the furtherance and improvement of the way , wherein they differed one from another , some unhappyly to the heightening of the differences , tooke up this charge of schisme against their brethren ; which yet in a small processe of time , being almost sunk of it selfe , will aske the lesse paines utterly to remove and take off . in the meane time , it is amongst other things ( which is to be confessed ) an evidence that we are not yet arrived at that inward frame of spirit , which was aymed at phil. 3. 15 , 16. whatever we have attained as to the outward administration of ordinances . this being the state of things , the concernment of some of us , lying in all the particulars mentioned , of all protestants in some , it may be worth while to consider , whether there be not generall principles of irrefragable evidence , whereon both all and some may be acquitted from their severall concernments in this charge , and the whole guilt of this crime put into the ephah , and carryed to build it an house in the land of shinar , to establish upon its own base . i confesse i would rather , much rather , spend all my time and days in making up & healing the breaches and schismes that are amongst christians , then one hour in justifying our divisions , even therein , wherein on the one side they are capable of a fair defence . but who is sufficient for such an attempt ? the closing of differences amongst christians is like opening the booke in the revelation : there is none able or worthy to do it in heaven or in earth , but the lamb : when he will put forth the greatnesse of his power for it , it shall be accomplished , and not before . in the mean time a reconciliation amongst all protestants is our duty , and practicable ; and had perhaps ere this been in some forwardnesse of accomplishment , had men rightly understood , wherein such a reconciliation according to the minde of god doth consist . when men have laboured as much in the improvement of the principle of forbearance , as they have done to subdue other men to their opinions , religion will have another appearance in the world . i have considered and endeavoured , to search into the bottome of the two generall wayes , fixed on respectively by sundry persons for the compassing of peace , and union among christians , but in one nation , with the issue and successe of them in severall places : namely , that of enforcing uniformity by a secular power on the one side , as was the case in this nation not many yeares agoe , ( and is yet liked by the most , ) being a suitable judgemement for the most , ) and that of toleration on the other , which is our present condition . concerning them both i dare say ; that though men of a good zeale , and small experience , or otherwise on any account full of their own apprehensions , may promise to themselves much of peace , union , and love , from the one or the other , ( as they may be severally favoured by men of different interests in this world , in respect of their conducinges to their ends , ) yet that a little observation of events , if they are not able to consider the causes of things , with the light and posture of the minds of men in this generation , will unburden them of the trouble of their expectations . it is something else , that must give peace unto christians , then what is a product of the prudentiall considerations of men . this i shall only adde as to the former of these , of enforcing vniformity ; as it hath lost its reputation of giving temporall tranquillity to states , kingdomes , and common-wealths ( which with some is onely valuable , whatever became of the soules of men , forced to the profession of that , which they did not believe ) the readiest means in the world to roote out all religion from the hearts of men ) the letters of which plea are in most nations in europe washed out with rivers of bloud , ( and the residue wait their season for the same issue ) so it continues in the possession of this advantage against the other , that it sees , and openly complaines of the evill , and dangerous consequences of it ; when against its own , where it prevailes , it suffers no complaints to lye . as it is ludicrously said of physitians , the effects of their skill lye in the sunne , but their mistakes are covered in the church-yard : so is it with this perswasion ; what it doth well , whilst it prevailes , is evident : the anxiety of conscience in some , hypocrisie , formality , no better then atheisme in others , wherewith it is attended , are buried out of sight . but as i have some while since ceased to be moved by the clamours of men , concerning bloudy persecution on the one hand , and cursed , intolerable toleration on the other , by finding all the world over , that events and executions follow not the conscientious imbracing of the one or other of these decryed principles , & perswasions , but are suited to the providence of god , stating the civill interests of the nations ; so i am perswaded , that a generall alteration of the state of the churches of christ in this world , must determine that controversie : which when the light of it appeares , we shall easily see the vanity of those reasonings , wherewith men are intangled , that are perfectly suited to their present condition of religion but hereof i have spoken elsewhere . farther , let any man consider the proposals and attempts , that have been made for ecclesiasticall peace in the world , both of old , and in these latter dayes ; let him consult the rescripts of princes ; the edicts of nations , advices of politicians , that would have the world in quietnesse on any termes , consultations , conferences , debates , assemblies , councells of the clergy , who are commonly zelots in their severall ways , and are by many thought to be willing rather to hurle the whole world into confusion then to abate any thing of the rigor of their opinions , and he will quickly assume the liberty of affirming concerning them all , that as wise men might easily see flawes in all of them , and an unsuitablenesse to the end proposed , and as good men might see so much of carnall interest , selfe , and hypocrisie in them , as might discourage them from any great expectations , so upon many other accounts a better issue was not to be looked for from them , then hath been actually obtained ; which hath for the most part been this , that those , that could dissemble most deeply have been thought to have the greatest advantage . in disputations indeed the truth for the most part hath been a gainer ; but in attempts for reconciliation , those that have come with the least candor , most fraud , hypocrisy , secular baits for the subverting of others , have in appearance for a season seem'd to obteine successe . and in this spirit of craft and contention are things yet carryed on in the world . yet i suppose the parties at variance are so well acquainted at length with each others principles , arguments , interests , prejudices , and reall distance of their causes , that none of them expect any reconciliation , but meerly by one parties keeping its station , and the other coming over wholy thereunto . and therefore a romanist in his preface to a late pamphlet about schisme to the two vniversitys , tells us plainly , that , if we will have any peace , we must without limitation submit to , and receive those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those commanding oracles which god by his holy spouse propoundeth to our obedience ; the sence of which expressions we are full well acquainted with . and in pursuite of that principle he tells us againe . p. 238. that suppose the church should in necessary points teach errour , yet even in that case every child of the church must exteriorly carry himselfe quiet and not make commotions ( that is , declare against her ) for that were to seek a cure worse then the disease ; now if it seem reasonable to these gentlemen , that we should renounce our sence and reason , with all that understanding , which we have , or at least are fully convinced that we have , of the mind of god in the scripture , and submit blindly to the commands , and guidance of their church , that we may have peace , and union with them , because of their huge interest and advantage , which lyes in our so doing , we professe our selves to be invincibly concluded under the power of a contrary perswasion , and consequently an impossiblity of reconciliation . as to attempts then for reconciliation between parties at variance about the things of god , and the removeall of schisme by that meanes , they are come to this issue among them , by whom they have been usually mannaged , namely politicians and divines ; that the former perceiving the tenaciousnesse in all things of the latter , their promptnesse & readinesse to dispute , and to continue in so doing with confidence of successe , ( a frame of spirit that indeed will never praise god , nor be usefull to bring forth truth in the world ) doe judge them at length not to have that prudence , which is requisite to advise in matters diffused into such variety of concernments as these are , or not able to breake through their unspeakable prejudices and interests to the due improvement of that wisedome , they seem to have ; and the latter observing the facile condescention of the former in all things that may have a consistency with that peace and secular advantage they aime at , doe conclude that , notwithstanding all their pretences , they have indeed in such consultations little or no regard to the truth ; whereupon having a mutuall diffidence in each other , they grow wearie of all endeavours to be carryed on joyntly in this kind ; the one betaking themselves wholy to keep things in as good state in the world , as they can , let what will become of religion ; the other to labour for successe against their adversaries , let what will become of the world , or the peace thereof . and this is like to be the state of things , untill another spirit be powred out on the professors of christianity , then that wherewith at present they seeme mostly to be acted . the only course then remaining to be fixed on , whilst our divisions continue , is to enquire wherein the guilt of them doth consist , and who is justly charged therewith ; in especiall what is , and who is , guilty of the sinne of schisme ? and this shall we doe , if god permit . it may i confesse seem superfluous to adde any thing more on this subject , which hath been so fully already handled by others . but as i said , the present concernement of some fearing god , lying beyond what they have undertaken , and their endeavours for the most part having tended rather to convince their adversaries of the insufficiency of their charge and accusation , then rightly and cleerly to state the thing or matter contended about , something may be farther added as to the satisfaction of the consciences of men injustly accused of this crime , which is my aime , and which i shall now fall upon . cap. ii. the nature of schisme to be determined from scripture only . this principle by some opposed . necessity of abiding in it . parity of reason allowed . of the name of schisme . it s constant use in scripture . in things civill and religious . the whole doctrine of schisme in the epistles to the corinthians . the case of that church proposed to consideration . schisme entirely in one church . not in the separation of any from a church . nor in substraction of obedience from governours . of the second schisme in the church of corinth . of clemens epistle . the state of the church of corinth in those dayes : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . paracia . to whom the epistle of clemens was precisely written . corinth not a metropoliticall church . allowance of what by parity of reason may be deduced from what is of schisme affirmed . things required to make a man guilty of schisme . arbitrary definitions of schisme rejected . that of austin considered : as that also of basil . the common use and acceptation of it in these days : separation from any church in its own nature not schisme . aggravations of the evill of schisme ungrounded . the evill of it from its proper nature and consequences evinced inferences from the whole of this discourse . the church of rome , if a church , the most schismaticall church in the world . the church of rome no church of christ : a compleat image of the empire . finall acquitment of protestants from schisme on the principle evinced . peculiarly of them of the late reformation in england : false notions of schisme the ground of sinne and disorder . the thing whereof we treate being a disorder in the instituted worship of god , and that which is of pure revelation , i suppose it a modest request to desire , that we may abide solely to that discovery and description , which is made of it in scripture ; that , that alone shall be esteemed schisme , which is there so called , or which hath the entire nature of that , which is there so called ; other things may be other crimes ; schisme they are not , if in the scripture they have neither the name nor nature of it attributed to them . he that shall consider the irreconcilable differences that are among christians all the world over about this matter , as also what hath passed concerning it in former ages , and shall weigh what prejudices the severall parties at variance are intangled with , in reference hereunto , will be ready to think , that this naked appeale to the only common principle amongst us all , is so just , necessary & reasonable , that it will be readily on all hands condescended unto but as this is openly opposed by the papists , as a most destructive way of procedure , so i feare , that when the tendency of it is discovered , it will meet with reluctancy from others . but let the reader know , that as i have determined 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so to take the measure of it from the scripture only . consue●udo sine veritate est vetustas erroris ( cyp. ep. ad pomp. ) and the sole measure of evangelicall truth , is this word , of whom it was said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id verius quod prius , id prius quod ab initio , id ab initio quod ab apostolis , sayes tertul : it is to me a sufficient answer to that fond question , where was your religion before luther ? where was your religion in the dayes of christ and his apostles ? my thoughts to this particular are the same with chrysostomes on the generall account of truth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . homil. 3. in acta . but yet least this should seem too streight , as being at first view exclusive of the learned debates & disputes , which we have had about this matter , i shall after the consideration of the precise scripture notion of the name and thing , wherein the conscience of a believer is alone concerned , propose and argue also what by a parity of reason may thence be deduced , as to the ecclesiasticall common use of them , and our concernment in the one and the other . the word which is metaphoricall , as to the businesse we have in hand , is used in the scripture , both in its primitive , native sence , in reference to things naturall , as also in the tralatitious use of it about things politick and spirituall or morall . in its first sence we have the noune mat. 9. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 ( in the cloth ) it 〈…〉 verbe . mat. 27. 51. 〈…〉 veile of the temple 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the 〈…〉 noting an interruption of 〈…〉 externall power in things me 〈…〉 this is the first sence of 〈…〉 or division of parts befo●●●ontinued , by force , or violent dissol●● 〈◊〉 the use of the world in a politicall sence is also frequent : joh. 7. 43 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there was a division among the multitude ; some being of one mind , some of another ; joh. 9. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there was a division amongst them : and cap. 10. 19. likewise . so act. 14. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the multitude of the city was divided : and cap. 23. 7. there arose a dissention between the pharisees and the sadduces , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the multitude was divided , some following one , some another of their leaders in that dissention ; the same thing is expressed by a word answering unto it in latine , scinditur incertum studia in contraria vulgus and in this sence relating to civill things it is often used . * this being the next posture of that word , from whence it immediately slips into its ecclesiasticall use , expressing a thing morall or spirituall ; there may some light be given into its importance , when so appropriated , from its constant use in this state and condition to denote differences of mind and judgement with troubles ensuing thereon , amongst men met in some one assembly about the compassing of a common end and designe . in the sence contended about it is used only by paul in his first epistle to the corinthians , and therein frequently : cap. 1. 10. i exhort you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that there be no schismes amongst you : cap. 11. 18. when you meet in the church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i heare there be schismes amongst you : cap. 12. 25. the word is used in reference to the naturall body , but with an application to the ecclesiasticall . other words there are of the same importance , which shall also be considered , as rom. 16. 17 , 18. of schisme in any other place , or in reference to any other persons , but only to this church of corinth , we heare nothing . here then being the principall foundation ( if it hath any ) of that great fabrick about schisme , which in latter ages hath been set up , it must be duly con●●●ered ; that if it be possible , we may discover by what secret engines or artifices the discourses about it , which fill the world , have been hence deduced , being for the most part , universally unlike the thing here mentioned : or find out , that they are built on certaine prejudices and presumptions , nothing relating thereto . the church of corinth was founded by paul act. 18. 8 , 9 , 10. with him there was aquila and priscilla v. 2 , 18. after his departure , apollos came thither , & effectually watered , what he had planted 1 ep. cap. 3. 6. it is probable that either peter had been there also , or at least that sundry persons converted by him were come thither , for he still mentions cephas and apollo with himselfe cap. 1. 12. & 3. 22. this church thus watered and planted came together for the worship of god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 11. 20. and for the administration of discipline in particular , cap. 5. 4. after a while through the craft of sathan , various evills in doctrine , conversation , and church-order crept in amongst them ; for doctrine , besides their mistake about eating things offered to idols cap. 8. 4. some of them denyed the resurrection of the dead , cap. 15. 12. in conversation they had not only the eruption of a scandalous particular sinne amongst them cap. 5. 1. but grievous sinfull miscarriages , when they came together about holy administrations cap. 11. 21. these the apostle distinctly reproves in them : their church-order , as to that love , peace , and union of heart and minde , wherein they ought to have walked , was woefully disturbed with divisions and sidings about their teachers , cap. 1. 12. and not content to make this difference the matter of their debates and disputes from house to house , even when they met for publick worship , or that which they all met in , and for , they were divided on that account cap. 11. 18. this was their schisme the apostle dehorts them from , charges them with , and shewes them the evill thereof . they had differences amongst themselves about unnecessary things ; on these they ingaged into disputes and sidings , even in their solemne assemblyes ; when they came all together for the same worship about which they differed not . probably much vaine jangling , alienation of affections , exasperation of spirits , with a neglect of due offices of love ensued hereupon . all this appeares from the entrance the apostle gives to his discourse on this subject . 1 epist . chap. 1. v. 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i beseech you that you all speake the same thing . they were of various minds , and opinions , about their church affairs ; which was attended with the confusion of disputings : let it not be so , saith the apostle ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and let there be no schismes among you ; which consist in such differences and janglings : he addes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; but that you be perfectly joyned together in the same minde , and the same judgment . they were joyned together in the same church order and fellowship , but he would have them so also in onenesse of minde and judgement , which if they were not , though they continued together in their church-order , yet schismes would be amongst them . this was the state of that church , this the frame and carriage of the members of it , this the fault and evill , whereon the apostle charges them with schisme , and the guilt thereof . the grounds , whereon he mannageth his reprose , are their common interest in christ , cap. 1. 13 the nothingnesse of the instruments of preaching the gospell , about whom they contended , cap. 1. 14. cap. 3. v. 4 , 5. their church order instituted by god , cap. 12. 13. of which afterward . this being as i said the principall seat of all that is taught in the scripture about schisme , we are herè , or hardly at all to learn , learne , what it is , and wherein it doth consist ; the arbitrary definitions of men , with their superstructions , and inferences upon them , we are not concerned in . at least i hope i shall have leave from hence to state the true nature of the thing , before it be judged necessary to take into consideration what by parity of reason may be deduced from it . in things purely morall , and of naturall equity , the most generall notion of them is to be the rule , whereby all particulars claiming an interest in their nature are to be measured , and regulated ; in things of institution , the particular instituted is first and principally to be regarded : how farre the generall reason of it may be excluded , is of after consideration ; and as is the case in respect of duty , so it is in respect of the evills that are contrary thereto . true and false are indicated , & tried by the same rule . here then our foote is to be fixed ; what compasse may be taken to fetch in things of a like kind , will in its proper place follow . observe then , 1. that the thing mentioned is entirely in one church , amongst the members of one particular society . no mention is there in the least of one church divided against another , or separated from another , or others ; whether all true , or some true , some false , or but pretended . whatever the crime be , it lyes wholy within the verge of one church , that ●et together for the worship of god , and administration of the ordinances of the gospell ; and unlesse men will condescend so to state it upon the evidence tendered , i shall not hope to prevaile much in the processe of this discourse , 2. here is no mention of any paticular man , or any number of mens separation from the holy assemblyes of the whole church , or of subduction of themselves from its power , nor doth the apostle lay any such thing to their charge , but plainely declares , that they continued all in the joynt celebration of that worship , and performance together of those duties , which were required of them in their assemblyes ; only they had groundlesse , causelesse differences amongst themselves , as i shall shew afterwards . all the divisions of one church from another , or others , the separation of any one or more persons from any church or churches , are things of another nature , made good or evill by their circumstances , and not that at all , which the scripture knowes and calls by the name of schisme ; and therefore was there no such thing or name , as schisme , in such a sence , known in the judaicall church , though in the former it abounded . all the different sects to the last , still communicated in the same carnall ordinances ; and those who utterly deserted them , were apostates , not schismaticks ; so were the body of the samaritans , they worshiped they knew not what , nor was salvation among them , joh. 4. 3. here is no mention of any substraction of obedience from bishops or rulers in what degree soever , no exhortation to regular submission unto them , much lesse from the pope or church of rome ; nor doth the apostle thunder out against them , you are departed from the amity of the catholick church , have rent christs seamelesse coat , set up altare contra altare , have forsaken the visible head of the church , the fountaine of all unitie ; you refuse due subjection to the prince of the apostles ; nor , you are schismaticks from the nationall church of achaja , or have cast off the rule of your governors ; with the like language of after dayes ; but , when you come together , you have divisions amongst you : behold , how great a matter a little fire kindleth . a condition not unlike to this befalling this very church of corinth , sundry years after the strifes now mentioned were allayed by the epistle of the apostle , doth againe exhibite us the case and evill treated on . some few unquiet persons among them drew the whole society ( upon the matter ) into division and an opposition to their elders . they , who were the causes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a clement tells them in the name of the church at rome , were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a few men , acted by pride and madnesse : yet such power had those persons in the congregation , that they prevailed with the multitude to depose the elders and cast them out of office : so the same clement tells them ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . what he intends by his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. he declares in the words foregoing , where he calls the elders , that were departed this life , happy and blessed , as not being subject or liable to expulsion out of their offices ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ whether these men , who caused the differences and sedition against those elders that were deposed , were themselves by the church substituted into their roome and place , i know not . this difference in that church , the church of rome in that ep. of clement calls every where schisme , as it also expresses the same things , or the evill frame of their minds and their actings by many other words : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are laid to their charge . that there was any separation from the church , that the deposed elders , or any for their sakes withdrew themselves from the communion of it , or ceased to assemble with it for the celebration of the ordinances of the gospell , there is not any mention : only the difference in the church is the schisme whereof they are accused . nor are they accused of schisme for the deposition of the elders , but for their differences amongst themselves , which was the ground of their so doing . it is alleadged indeed , that it is not the single church of corinth , that is here intended , but all the churches of achaia , whereof that was the metropolis : which though as to the nature of schisme , it be not at all prejudiciall to what hath been asserted , supposing such a church to be ; yet because it sets up in oposition to some principles of truth , that must afterwards be improved , i shall briefely review the arguments whereby it is attempted to be made good . the title of the epistle in the first place is pretended to this purpose : it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wherein ( as t is said ) on each part the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or whole province , as of rome , so of corinth , the region and territorie , that belonged to those metropoli's , is intended : but as i have formerly elsewhere said , we are beholding to the frame and fabrick of church affaires in after ages for such interpretations as these ; the simplicity of the first knew them not ; they who talked of the church of god , that did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at rome , little then thought of province or region 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is as much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. 8. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a man that dwells at such a place , properly one that dwells in anothers house , or soyle , or that hath removed from one place , and setled in another ; whence it is often used in the same sence with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he is such an inhabitant , as hath yet some such consideration attending him , as makes him a kind of a forreigner to the place where he is ; so eph. 2. 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are opposed . hence is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which as budaeus● saies differs from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in that it denotes a temporary habitation ; this a stable and abiding . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so to inhabite , to dwell in a place , where yet something makes a man a kind of a stranger . so it is said of abraham 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 heb. 11. 9. 1 ▪ pet. 2. 11. joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : ( hence this word by the learned publisher of this epistle is rendered peregrinatur , diversatur ) and more cleerly luk. 24. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we have rendred , are you only a stranger in hierusalem : whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & paroecia is from hence or no , by some is doubted , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is convivator ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praebitio , gloss . vetus : so that parochi●… may be called so from them , who met together to breake bread , and to eat : allow parochia to be barbarous , & our only word to be paroecia from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , then it is as much as the voisinage , men living neare together for any end whatever . so sayes budaeus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; thence churches were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , consisting of a number of them , who were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the saints of god expressing the place which they inhabited , and the manner , as strangers , said of the churches whereof they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : this is now made to denote a region , a territorie , the adjacent region to a metropolis ; and such like things , as the poor primitive pilgrimes little thought of . this will scarcely as i suppose evince the assertion we are dealing about ; there may be a church of god dweling at rome or corinth , without any adjacent region annexed to it , i think . besides , among those who first used the word in the sence now supposed , did not understand a province by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which was with them ( as originally ) the charge of him that was a bishop , and no more . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was with them a province that belonged to a metropolitan ; such as the bishop of corinth is supposed to be . i do not remember where a metropolitan province is called his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there being many of these in every one of them . but at present i will not herein concerne my selfe . but it is said , that this epistle of clement was written to them , to whom pauls epistles were written ; which appears , as from the common title● , so also from hence , that clement advises them to whom he writes , to take and consider that epistle , which paul had formerly wrote to them , now ▪ paul's epistle was written to all the churches of achaia , as it is said expressely in the second , to the church of god which is at corinth , with all the saints , which are in all achaia : cap. 1. 1 and for the former , that also is directed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the same forme is used at the close of this , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , wherein , all places in achaia ( and every where therein ) not absolutely are intended ; for if they should , then this epistle would be a catholick epistle , and would conclude the things mentioned in it , of the letter received by the apostle &c. to relate to the catholick church . ans . it is confessed , that the epistles of paul , and clement , have one common title ; so that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is clements expression , is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is pauls in both his epistles , which addes little strength to the former argument from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as i suppose , confining it thither . it is true , pauls second epistle , after its inscription 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he mentions not any where any more churches in achaia then that of corinth , and that at cenchrea ; nor doth he speake of any churches here in this salutation , but only of the saints . and he plainely makes achaia and corinth to be all one 2 cor. 9. 2. so that to me it appears , that there were not as yet , any more churches brought into order in achaia , but that mentioned ; with that other other at cenchrea , which i suppose , comes under the same name with that at corinth ; nor am i perswaded , that it was a compleated congregation in those daies . saints in acha●a that lived not at corinth , there were perhaps many ; but being scattered up and downe , they were not formed into societies , but belonged to the church of corinth , and assembled therewith ( as they could ) for the participation of ordinances : so that there is not the least evidence , that this epistle of paul was directed to any other church , but that of corinth . for the first , it can scarce be questioned ; paul writing an epistle for the instruction of the saints of god , and disciples of christ in all ages , by the inspiration of the holy ghost , salutes in its beginning and ending all them , that on that generall account are concerned in it . in this sense all his epistles were catholick , even those he wrote to single persons . the occasion of writing this epistle was indeed from a particular church , and the chiefe subject matter of it was concerning the affaires of that church . hence it is in the first place particularly directed to them ; and our present enquiry is not after all that by any meanes were , or might be concerned in that , which was then written , as to their present or future direction , but after them , who administred the occasion to what was so written , and whose particular condition was spoken to : this i say was the single church of corinth . that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all in every place , should be all only in achaia , or that clement his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , should be with them , that are called in achaia , i can yet see no ground to conjecture . paul writes an epistle to the church of ephesus . and concludes it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : the extent of which prayer is supposed to reach farther then ephesus , and the region adjacent . it doth not then as yet appeare that paul wrote his epistles peculiarly to any other , but the particular church at corinth . if concerning the latter , because of that expression with all the saints which are in all achaia , if it be granted there were more churches then that of corinth with its neighbour cenchrea ( which whether it were a stated distinct church or no , i know not ) yet it will not at all follow ( as was said before ) that clement attending the particular occasion only , about which he and the church of rome were consulted , did so direct his epistle , seeing he makes no mention in the least , that so he did . but y●● by the way there is one thing more , that i would be willingly resolved about in this discourse ; & that is this , seeing that it is evident that the apostle by his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and clemens , by his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , intend an enlargement beyond the first and immediate direction to the church of corinth , if by the church of corinth , as it is pleaded , he intend to expresse that whole region of achaia , what either the apostle , or clemens do obtain by that enlargement , if restrained to that same place . it is indeed said , that at this time there were many other episcopall sees in achaia ; which untill it is attempted to be put upon some kind of proof , may be passed by : it is granted that paul speakes of that which was done at corinth , to be done in achaia rom. 15. 28. as what is done in london is without doubt done in england : but that which lies in expectation of some light or evidence to be given unto it , is , that there was a metropoliticall see at corinth , at this time , whereunto many episcopall sees in achaia were in a subordination , being all the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of corinth , all which are called the church of corinth , by vertue of their subjection thereunto ; when this is proved , i shall confesse some principles i afterwards insist on , will be impaired thereby . this then is added by the same author , that the ecclesiasticall estate was then conformed to the civill : where ever there was a metropolis in a civill-politicall sence , there was seated also a metropoliticall church ; now that corinth was a metropolis , the proconsul of achaia keeping his residence there , in the first sence is confessed . and besides what followes from thence , by vertue of the principle now laid down , chrysostome calls it a metropolis relating to the time wherein paul wrote his epistle to the church there in the latter sence also . the plea about metropoliticall churches , i suppose will be thought very impertinent to what i have now in hand , so it shall not at present be insisted on . that the state of churches in after ages was moulded and framed after the patterne of the civill goverment of the roman empire is granted ; and that conformity ( without offence to any be it spoken ) we take to be a fruit of the working of the mystery of iniquity . but that there was any such order instituted in the churches of christ , by the apostles , or any instituted by the authority from the lord and ruler , is utterly denyed ; nor is any thing , but very uncertaine conjectures from the sayings of men of after ages , produced to attest any such order , or constitution . when the order , spirituality , beauty , and glory of the church of christ shall returne , and men obteine a light , whereby they are able to discerne a beauty and excellency in the inward , more noble spirituall part , indeed life and soul of the worship of god , these disputes will have an issue . chrysostome sayes indeed , that corinth was the metropolis of achaia , but in what sence he sayes not ; the politicall is granted , the ecclesiasticall not proved ; nor are we enquiring what was the state of the churches of christ in the dayes of chrysostome , but of paul. but to returne . if any one now shall say , will you conclude , because this evill mentioned by the apostle is schisme , therefore nothing else is so ? i answer , that having before asserted , this to be the chiefe and only seat of the doctrine of schisme , i am inclinable so to do : and this i am resolved of , that unlesse any man can prove that something else is termed schisme by some divine writer , or blamed on that head of account by the holy ghost elsewhere , and is expressly reproved a● another crime , i will be at liberty from admitting it so to be . but yet for what may hence by a parity of reason be deduced , i shall close with , and debate at large , as i have professed . the schisme then here described by the apostle , and blamed by him , consists in causelesse differences , and contentions amongst the members of a particular church , contrary to that of love , prudence , and forbearance , which are required of them to be exercised amongst themselves and towards one another ; which is also termed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act. 15. 21. and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rom. 16. 13. and he is a schismatick that is guilty of this sinne of schisme , that is , who raiseth , or entertained , or persisteth in such differences ; nor are these termes used by the divine writers in any other sence . that any men may fall under this guilt , it is required ; 1. that they be members of , or belong to some one church , which is soe , by the institution and appointment of jesus christ . and we shall see , that there is more required hereunto , then the bare being a believer or a christian . 2. that they either raise or entertaine . and persist in causelesse differences with others of that church more or lesse , to the interruption of that exercise of love ▪ in all the fruits of it , which ought to be amongst them ; and the disturbance of the due performance of the duties required of the church , in the worship of god. as clement in the forementioned epistle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 3. that these differences be occasioned by , and do belong to some things in a remoter or nearer distance appertaining to the worship of god ; their differences on a civill account are elsewhere mentioned , and reproved , 1 ep. cap. 6. for therein also there was from the then state of things an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. 7. this is that crime , which the apostle rebukes , blames , condemnes under the name of schisme , and tells them that were guilty of it , that they shewed themselves to be carnall , or to have indulged to the flesh and the corrupt principle of selfe , and their own wills , which should have been subdued to the obedience of the gospell . mens definitions of things are for the most part arbitrary and loose ; fitted and suited to their severall apprehensions of principles and conclusions ; so that nothing cleare or fixed is generally to be expected from them ; from the romanists description of schisme , who violently without the least colour or pretence thrust in the pope , and his head ship , into all that they affirme in church matters , least of all . i can allow men that they may extend their definitions of things unto what they apprehend of an alike nature to that , which gives rise to the whole disquisition , and is the first thing defin'd . but at this i must professe my selfe to be somewhat entangled , that i could never yet meet with a definition of schisme , that did comprize , that was not exclusive of that , which alone in the scripture is affirmed so to be . austins definition contains the summe of what hath since been insisted on ; saith he , schisma ni fallor est eadem opinantem , & eodem ritu utentem solo congregationis delectari dissidio g●n . faust . lib. 20. cap. 3. by dissidium congregationis he intends separation from the church into a peculiar congregation ; a definition directly suited to the cause he had in hand , and was pleading against the donatists . basil in epist . ad amphiloch . con. 44. distiguisheth between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and as he makes schisme to be a division arising from some church controversies suitable to what those dayes experienced , and in the substance true ; so he tells us that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is when either presbyters , or bishops , or laicks hold unlawfull meetings , assemblyes or conventicles , which was not long since with us the only schisme . since those days schisme in generall hath passed for a causelesse separation from the communion and worship of any true church of christ , ( the catholick church saith the papist ) with a relinquishment of its society , as to a joynt celebration of the ordinances of the gospell ; how farre this may passe for schisme , and what may be granted in this description of it , the processe of our discourse will declare . in the mean time i am most certain , that a separation from some churches true or pretended so to be is commanded in the scriptures ; so that the withdrawing from , or relinquishment of any church or society whatever , upon the plea of its corruption , be it true or false , with a mind and resolution to serve god in the due observation of church institutions , according to that light which men have received , is no where called schisme , or condemned as a thing of that nature , but is a matter that must be tryed out , whether it be good or evill , by vertue of such generall rules and directions , as are given us in the scriptures for our orderly and blamelesse walking with god in all his wayes . as for them , who suppose all church power to be invested in some certain church officers originally ( i meane that which they call of jurisdiction ) who on that account are eminenter , the church , the union of the whole consisting in a subjection to those officers according to rules , orders and canons of their appointment , whereby they are necessitated to state the businesse of schisme on the rejection of their power and authority , i shall speak to them afterwards at large . for the present , i must take leave to say , that i look upon the whole of such a fabrick , as a product of prudence and necessity . i cannot but feare least some mens surmisings may prompt them to say , that the evill of schisme is thus stated , in a compliance with that , and them , which before we blamed : and seemes to serve to raise sleight and contemptible thoughts of it , so that men need not be shaken though justly charged with it . but besides that sufficient testimony , which i have to the contrary , that will abundantly shelter me from this accusation ▪ by an assurance that i have not the lea● aime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i shall farther add my apprehension of the greatnesse of the evill of this sinne , if i may first be borne with a little in declaring what usuall aggravations of it i do either not understand , or else cannot assent unto . those , who say it is a renting of the seamelesse coat of christ ( in which metaphoricall expression men have wonderfully pleased themselves ) seem to have mistaken their ayme ; and instead of an aggravation of its evill , by that figure of speech , to have extenuated it ; a rent of the body well compacted , is not heightned to any ones apprehension , in its being called the renting of a seamelesse coat : but men may be indulged the use of the most improper and groundlesse expressions , so they place no power of argument in them , whilest they find them moving their own , and suppose them to have an alike efficacy upon the affections of others . i can scarce think that any ever supposed , that the coate of christ was a type of his church ; his church being cloathed with him , not he with it . and therefore with commendation of his successe , who first invented that allusion , i leave it in the possession of them , who want better arguments to evince the evill of this sinne . it is most usually said to be a sinne against charity , as heresie is against faith. heresie is a sinne against faith ( if i may so speake ) both as it is taken for the doctrine of faith , which is to be believed , and the assent of the mind whereby we doe believe . he that is a heretick ( i speake of him in the usuall acception of the word , and the sence of them , who make this comparison , in neither of which i am satisfied ) rejects the doctrine of faith ; and denyes all assen● unto it . indeed he doth the former by doing the latter . but is schisme so a sinne against charity ? doth it supplant , and root out love out of the heart ? is it an affection of the minde attended with an inconsistency therewith ? i much question it . the apostle tells us , that love is the bond of perfection col. 3. 14. because in the severall and various waies whereby it exerts it self , it maintaines and preserves notwithstanding all hinderances and opposition● , that perfect and beautifull order , which christ hath appointed amongst his saints , wherein men by schisme are kept off , and withheld from the performance of any of those offices and duties of love , which are usefull , or necessary for the preservation of the bond of perfection , then is it , or may in some sence be said to be a sinne against love. those , who have seemed to aime nearest the apprehension of the true nature of it in these days , have described it to be an open breach of love , or charity . that that expression is warily to be understood , is evident in the light of this single consideration . it is possible for a man to be all , and doe all , that those were , and did , whom the apostle judges for schismaticks , under the power of some violent temptation , and yet have his heart full of love to the saints of the communion disturbed by him . it is thus far then in its own nature a breach of love , in that in such men , love cannot exert it selfe in its utmost tendency in wisedome and forbearance for the preservation of the perfect order instituted by christ in his church . however i shall freely say , that the schoolmens notion of it , who insist on this as its nature , that it is a sinne against charity , as heresie is against faith , is fond and becomming them ; and so will others also , shall be pleased to that consider , what they intend by charity . some say it is a rebellion against the church , that is , the rulers and officers of the church . i doubt not but that there must be either a neglect in the church in the performance of its duty , or of the authority of it in so doing , wherever there is any schisme , though the discovery of this also have innumerable intanglements attending it . but that to refuse the authority of the church is to rebell against the rulers , or guides of it , will receive farther light , then what it hath done , when once a pregnant instance is produced , not where the church signifies the officers of it , but where it doth not signifie the body of the congregation in contradistinction from them , or comprising them therein . adde unto these , those who dispute whether schismaticks doe belong to the church or no , & conclude in the negative ; seeing according to the discovery already made , it is impossible a man should be a schismatick , unlesse he be a church member . other crimes a man may be guilty of on other accounts ; of schisme , only in a church . what is the formal reason of any mans relation to a church , in what sence soever that word is used , must be afterwards at large discussed . but now this foundation being laid , that schisme is a causelesse difference or division amongst the members of any particular church , that meet together , or ought so to do , for the worship of god , and celebration of the same numericall ordinances to the disturbance of the order appointed by jesus christ , & contrary to that exercise of love in wisedome and mutuall forbearance , which is required of them , it will be easy to see , wherein the iniquity of it doth consist , and upon what consederations its aggravations doe arise . it is evidently a despising of the authority of jesus christ , the great soveraigne lord , and head of the church . how often hath he commanded us to forbeare one another , to forgive one another , to have peace among our selves , that we may be known to be his disciples , to beare with them that are in any thing contrary minded to our selves . to give light to this consideration , let that which at any time is the cause of such hatefull divisions , rendred as considerable as the prejudices , and most importune affections of men can represent it to be , be brought to the rule of love , and forbearance , in the latitude of it , as prescribed to us by christ , and it will evidently beare no proportion thereunto . so that such differences though arising on reall miscarriages and faults of some , because they might otherwise be handled , and healed , and ought to be so , cannot be persisted in without the contempt of the immediate authority of jesus christ . if it were considered , that he standeth in the congregation of god ps . 82. 1. that he dwells in the church in glory as in sinai in the holy place ps . 68. 17 , 18. walking in the mid'st of the candlesticks rev. 1. 13. with his eyes upon us as a flame of fire v. 14 his presence and authority would perhaps be more prevalent with some , then they seem to be . againe ! his wisdome , whereby he hath ordered all things in his church , on set purpose , that schisme and divisions may be prevented , is no lesse despised . christ who is the wisdome of the father . 1 cor. 1. 24. the stone on which are seaven eyes , zech 3. 9. upon whose shoulders the government is laid , is . 9. 6 , 7. hath in his infinite wisdome so ordered all the officers , orders , gifts , administrations of , and in his church , as that this evill might take no place . to manifest this , is the designe of the holy ghost , rom. 12 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 1. cor. 12. eph. 4. 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14. the consideration in particular of this wisdome of christ , suiting the officers of his church , in respect of the places they hold , of the authority wherewith from him they are invested , the way whereby they are entered into their function , distributing the gifts of his spirit in marveilous variety , unto severall kinds of usefulnesse ; and such distance , and dissimilitude in the particular members , as in a due correspondencie and proportion , give comelinesse and beauty to the whole , disposing of the order of his worship , and sundry ordinances in especiall , to be expressive of the highest love and vnion , pointing all of them against such causelesse divisions , might be of use , were that my present intendment . the grace and goodnesse of christ , whence he hath promised to give us one heart , and one way , to leave us peace , such as the world cannot give , with innumerable others of the like importance , are disregarded thereby . so also is his prayer for us ; with what affection and zeale did he powre out his soule to his father for our union in love . that seems to be the thing his heart was chiefely fixed on , when he was leaving this world , joh. 17. what weight he layes thereon , how thereby we may be known to be his disciples , and the world be convinced , that he was sent of god , is there also manifested . how farre the exercise of love and charity is obstructed by it , hath been declared . the consideration of the nature , excellency , property , effects , usefulnesse of this grace in all the saints in all their ways , its especiall designation by our lord and master , to be the bond of union and perfection , in the way and order instituted for the comely celebration of the ordinances of the gospell , will adde weight to this aggravation . it s constant growing to farther evill , in some to apostacy it selfe ; its usuall and certaine ending in strife , variance , debate , evill surmisings , wrath , confusion , disturbances publick and private , are also to be laid all at its doore . what farther of this nature and kind may be added ( as much may be added ) to evince the heinousnesse● of this sinne of schisme , i shall willingly subscribe unto ; so that i shall not trouble the reader in abounding in what on all hands is confessed . it is incumbent upon him , who would have me to goe farther in the description of this evill , then as formerly stated , to evince from scripture , another notion of the name or thing , then that given , which when he hath done , he shall not find me refractory . in the meane time i shall both consider what may be objected against that , which hath been delivered , and also discusse the present state of our divisions on the usuall principles , and common acception of schisme ; if first i may have leave to make some few inferences , or deductions from what hath already been spoken , and as i hope , evinced . on supposition that the church of rome is a church of christ , it will appeare to be the most schismaticall church in the world. i say or supposition that it is a church , and that there is such a thing , as a schismaticall church , ( as perhaps a church may from its intestine differences , be so not unfitly denominated ) that is , the state and condition thereof . the pope is the head of their church , severall nations of europe are members of it . have we not seen that head taking his flesh in his teeth , tearing his body and his limbs to pieces ? have some of them thought on any thing else , but , arise peter , kill and eate , all their dayes ! have we not seen this goodly head , in disputes about peters patrimony , and his own jurisdiction , wage warre , fight , and shed blood , the blood of his own members ? must we believe armies raised , and battailes fought , townes fired , all in pure love , and perfect church order ? not to mention their old altare contra altare , anti-popes , anti-councells ; look all over their church , on their potentates , bishops , friars , there is no end of their variances . what do the chiefest , choisest pillars , eldest sonnes , and i know not what of their church at this day ? doe they not kill , destroy , and ruine each other , as they are able ? let them not say these are the divisions of the nations , that are in their church , not of the church ; for all these nations on their hypothesis are members of that one church . and that church , which hath no meanes to prevent its members from designed , resolved on , and continued murthering one of another , nor can remove them from its society , shall never have me in its communion , as being bloudily schismaticall . no● is there any necessity , that men should forgoe the respective civill interests , by being members of one church . prejudicate apprehensions of the nature of a church , and its authority , lye at the bottome of that difficulty ; christ hath ordained no church , that enwraps such interests , as on the account whereof , the members of it may murther one another . whatever then , they pretend of vnity , and however they make it a note of the true church ( as it is a property of it ) that which is like it amongst them , is made up of these two ingredients , subjection to the pope , either for feare of their lives , or advantage to their livelyhood , and a conspiracy for the destruction , and suppression of them , that oppose their interests , wherein they agree like those , who maintained hierusalem in its last siege by titus ; they all consented to oppose the romans , and yet fought out all other things among themselves . that they are not so openly clamorous about the differences at present , as in former ages , is meerely from the pressure of protestants round about them however , let them at this day silence the jesuits and dominicans , especially the baijans and the jansenians on the one part , and the molinists on the other : take off the gallican church from its schismaticall refusall of the councell of trent ; cause the king of spaine to quit his claime to sicilie , that they need not excommunicate him every yeare ; compell the commonwealth of venice to receive the jesuits ; stop the mouths of the sorbonists about the authority of a generall councell above the pope , and of all those , whom opposing the papall omnipotency they call politicians ; quiet the contest of the franciscans and dominicans about the blessed virgin ; burne bellarmines books , who almost on every controversy of ch. religion gives an account of their intestine divisions , branding some of their opinions as haereticall , as that of medina about bishops and presbyters , some as idolatricall , as that of thomas about the worship of the crosse with latria , &c. and they may give a better colour to their pretences , then any as yet it wears . but what need i insist upon this supposition ; when i am not more certaine , that there is any instituted church in the world , owned by christ as such , then i am , that the church of rome is none , properly so called . nor shall i be thought singular in this perswasion , if it be duely con●idered ▪ what this amounts unto . some learned men of latter daies in this nation , pleading in the justification of the church of england , as to her departure from rome , did grant that the church of rome doth not erre in fundamentalls , or maintained no errors remedilesly pernitious and destructive of salvation . how farre they entangled themselves by this concession i argue not : the foundation of it lyes in this cleer truth , that no church what ever , universall , or particular , can possibly erre in fundamentalls , for by so doing it would cease to be a church . my denying then the synogogue of rome to be a church , according to their principles , amounts to no more then this : the papist● maintaine in their publique confessions , fundamentall errors ; in which assertion it s known i am not alone . but this is not the principle , at least not the sole nor maine principle , whereon i ground my judgement in this case : but this , that there was never any such thing in any tolerable likenesse or similitude , as that which is called the church of rome , allowing the most skillfull of its rabbies to give in the characters and delineations of it , instituted in reference to the worship of god by jesus christ . the truth is , the whole of it is but an imitation & exemplar of the old imperiall goverment : one is set up in chiefe and made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in spiritualls , as the emperors were in civill things ; from him all power flowes to others ; and as there was a communication of power by the emperors , to the civill state praefects , proconsulls , vicars , presidents , governours of the lesser and greater nations , with those under them , in various civill subordinations , according to the dignity of the places , where they did beare rule and preside , and ni the military to generalls , legates , tribun's and the inferior officers ; so is there by the pope , to patriarchs , arch-bishops , bishops , in their severall subordinations , which are as his civil state ; and to generalls of religious orders , provincialls , and their dependants , which are as his military . and it is by some ( not in all things agreeing with them ) confessed , that the goverment , pleaded for by them in the church , was brought in and established , in correspondency and accommodation to the civill goverment of the empire ; which is undeniably evident and certaine : now this being not throughly done till the empire had received an incurable wound , it seemes to me to be the making of an image to the beast , giving life to it , and causing i●to speake . so that the present roman church is nothing else , but an image or similitude of the roman empire , set up in its declining among and over the same persons in succession , by the craft of sathan , through principles of deceit , subtilty and spirituall wickednesse , as the other was by force and violence , for the same ends of power , dominion , fleshlinesse , and persecution with the former . the exactnesse of this correspondency in all things , both in respect of those , who claime to be the stated body of his ecclesiasticall commonwealth , and those , who are meerly dependent on his will , bound unto him professedly by a military sacrament , exempted from the ordinary rules and goverment of his fixed rulers in their severall subordination● , under officers of their own immediately commissionated by him , with his mannagement of both those parties to ballance and keep them mutually in quiet and in order for his service ( especially confiding in his men of warre , like the emperors of old ) may elsewhere be farther manifested . i suppose it will not be needfull to adde any thing to evince the vanity of the pretensions of the romanists or others against all or any of us , on the account of schisme , upon a grant of the principles layd down , it lyes so cleare in them without need of farther deduction ; and i speake with some confidence , that i am not in expectation of any hasty confutation of them , i meane , that which is so indeed . the earnestnesse of their clamours , importuning us to take notice of them by the way , before i enter upon a direct debate of the cause , as it stands stated in reference to them , i shall only tell them , that seeking to repose our consciences in the minde of god revealed in the scriptures , we are not at all concerned in the noise , they make in the world . for what have we done ? wherein doth our guilt consist ? wherein lyes the peculiar concernment of these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? let them goe to the churches , with whom we walke , of whom we are , and aske of them concerning our wayes , our love , and the duties of it ? doe we live in strife , and variance ? do we not beare with each other ? doe we not worship god without disputes and divisions ? have we differences and contentions in our assemblies ? doe we break any bond of union , wherein we are bound , by the expresse institutions of jesus christ ? if we have , let the righteous reprove us , we will own our guilt , confesse we have been carnall , and endeavour reformation . if not , what have the romanists , italians , to doe to judge us ? knew we not your designe , your interest , your lives , your doctrines , your worship , we might possibly think , that you might intermeddle out of love , and mistaken zeale , but ad populum phaleras : you would be making shrines , and thence is this stirre , and uproare . but we are schismaticks in that we have departed from the catholick church ; and for ▪ our own conventicles , they are no churches , but styes of beasts ▪ but this is most false . we abide in the catholick church under all the bonds , wherein by the will of christ we stand related ▪ unto it . which if we prove not with as much evidence , as the nature of such things will beare , though you are not at all concerned in it , yet we will give you leave to ●riumph over us . and if our own congregations ▪ be not churches , whatsoever we are , we are not schismaticks ; for schisme is an evill amongst the members of a church , if s. paul may be believed . but we have forsaken the church of rome . but gentlemen , shew first how we were ever of it . no man hath lost that which he never had ; nor hath left the place or station wherein he never was . tell me when or how we were members of your church ? we know not your language , you are barbarians to us . it is impossible we should assemble with you . but your forefathers left that church , and you persist in their evill . prove that your forefathers were ever of your church in any communion instituted by christ , and you say somewhat . to desert a mans station , and relation , which he had on any other account , good , or bad , is not schisme ; as shall farther be manifested . upon the same principle , a plea for freedome from the charge of any church , reall , or pretended , as nationall , may be founded , and confirmed ; either we are of the nationall church of england , ( to give that instance ) or we are not ; if we are not , and are exempted by our protestation , as before ; whatever we are , we are not schismaticks ; if we are fatally bound unto it , and must be members of it , whether we will or no , being made so we know not how , and continuing so we know not why , shew us then what duty , or office of love is incumbent on us , that we doe not performe ? doe we not joyne in externall acts of worship in peace with the whole church ? call the whole church together , and try what we will doe ? doe we not joyne in every congregation in the nation ? this is not charged on us ; nor will any say , that we have right so to doe , without a relation to some particular church in the nation ; i know where the sore lyes . a nationall officer , or officers ▪ with others acting under them in severall subordinations , with various distributions of power , are the church intended . a non-submission to their rules and constitutions , is the schisme we are guilty of . quem das finem rex magne laborum ! but this pretence shall afterwards be sifted to the utmost . in the meane time let any one informe me , what duty i ought to performe towards a nationall church , on supposition there is any such thing , by vertue of an institution of jesus christ , that is possible for me to performe , and i shall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 addresse my selfe unto it . to close these considerations with things of more immediate concernment , of the divisions that have fallen out amongst us in things of religion , since the last revolutions of this nation , there is no one thing hath been so effectuall a promotion ( such is the power of tradition , and prejudice , which even beare all before them in humane affaires ) as the mutuall charging one another with the guilt of schisme . that the notion of schisme , whereon this charge is built by the most , if not all , was invented by some of the ancients , to promote their plea , and advantage them with them with whom they had to doe , without due regard to the simplicity of the gospell , at least in a suitablenesse to the present state of the church in those daies , is too evident . for on very small foundations have mighty fabricks , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in religion been raised . as an ability to judge of the present posture and condition of affaires , with counsell to give direction for their order and mannagement , towards any end proposed , not an ability to contri●e for events , and to knit on one thing upon another , according to a probability of successe for continuance , which is almost constantly disturbed by unexpected providentiall interveniences , leaving the contrivers at a perplexing losse , will be found to be the summe of humane wisdome ; so it will be our wisdome in the things of god , not to judge according to what by any meanes is made present to us , and its principles on that account rendred ready to exert themselves , but ever to recoile to the originall , and first institution . when a man first falls into some current , he finds it strong , and almost impassable ; trace it to its fountaine , and it is but a dribling gutter ▪ paul tells the members of the church of corinth , that there were divisions amongst them , breaches of that love & order , that ought to be observed in religious assemblies . hence there is a sinne of schisme raised ; which when considered as now stated , doth no more relate to that treated on by the apostle , then simon sonne of jonas , lovest thou me , doth to the popes supremacy ; or christs saying to peter of john , if i will that he tarry till i come , what is that to thee , did to the report , that went afterwards abroad , that that disciple should not die . when god shall have reduced his churches to their primitive purity and institution , when they are risen , and have shaken themselves out of the dust , and things of religion returne to their native simplicity , it is scarce possible to imagine , what vizards will fall off , and what a contrary appearance many things will have , to what they now walke up and downe in . i wish that those , who are indeed really concerned in this businesse , namely , the members of particular churches , who have voluntarily given up themselves to walke in them according to the appointment of christ , would seriously consider , what evill lyes at the door , if they give place to causelesse differences , and divisions amongst themselves . had this sinne of schisme been rightly stated , as it ought , and the guilt of it charged in its proper place , perhaps some would have been more carefull in their deportment in their relations . at present , the dispute in the world relating hereunto , is about subjection to the pope , and the church of rome , as it is called : and this mannaged on the principles of edicts of councells , with the practices of princes , and nations , in the dayes long agoe past , with the like considerations , wherein the concernment of christians is doubtlesse very small . or of obedience , and conformity to metropolitan and diocesan bishops in their constitutions , and wayes of worship joyntly , or severally prescribed by them . in more ancient times , that which was agitated under the same name , was about persons or churches , renouncing the communion and society of saints with all other churches in the world , consenting with them in the same confession of faith , for the substance of it . and these differences respectively are handled , in reference to what the state of things was , and is grown unto in the dayes , wherein they are mannaged . when paul wrote his epistle , there was no occasion given to any such controversies , nor foundation laid making them possible ▪ that the disciples of christ ought every where to abound in love and forbearance towards one another , especially to carry all things in union and peace in those societies , wherein they were joyned for the worship of god , were his endeavours , and exhortations : of these things he is utterly silent : let them , who aime to recover themselves into the like state and condition , consider his commands , exhortations , and reproofes . things are now generally otherwise stated , which furnisheth men with objections against what hath been spoken , to whose removall , and farther clearing of the whole matter , i shall now addresse my selfe . chap. iii. objections against the former discourse proposed to consideration : separation from any church in the scripture not called schisme . grounds of such separation . apostacy , irregular walking , sensuality . of separation on the account of reformation . of commands for separation . no example of churches departing from the communion of one another . of the common notion of schisme , and the use made of it . schisme a breach of vnion . that vnion instituted by christ . that which lyes obvious to every man against what hath been delivered , and which is comprehensive of all the particular objections , to which it seemes lyable and obnoxious , is , that according to this description of schisme ; separation of any man or men from a true church , or of one church from others , is not schisme ; seeing that is an evill only amongst the members of one church , whilest they continue so to be : which is so contrary to the judgement of the generality of christians in this businesse , that it ought to be rejected as fond , and absurd . of what hath been the judgement of most men in former ages , what it is in this , what strength there is in an argument deduced from the consent pretended ; i am not as yet arrived to the consideration of nor have i yet manifested , what i grant of the generall notion of schisme , as it may be drawn by way of analogie or proportion of reason , from what is delivered in the scripture concerning it . i am upon the precise signification of the word and description of the thing , as used and given by the holy ghost : in this sence i deny that there is any relinquishment , departure , or separation from any church , or churches mentioned , or intimated in the scripture , which is , or is called schisme , or agreeth with the description by them given us of that terme . let them that are contrary minded attempt the proof of what they affirme . as farre as a negative proposition is capable of evidence from any thing , but the weakenesse of the opposition made unto it , that layed down will receive it by the ensuing considerations . all blameable departure from any church or churches , or relinquishment of them mentioned in the gospell , may be reduced to one of these three heads or causes : 1. apostacy , 2. irregularity of walking . 3. professed sensuality . 1. apostacy or falling away from the faith of the gospell ; and thereupon forsaking the congregations or assemblyes for the worship of god in jesus christ is mentioned heb. 10. 25. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not wholy deserting the assembling our selves , as is the manner of some ▪ a separation from , and relinquishment of the communion of that church , or those churches , with whom men have assembled for the worship of god , is the guilt here charged on some by the apostle . upon what account they so separated themselves is declared v. 26. they sinned willfully , after they had received the knowledge of the truth ; thereby shipping out their necks from the yoke of christ , v. 28. and drawing back to perdition v. 29. that is , they departed off to judaisme . i much question , whether any one would think fit to call these men schismaticks ? or whether we should so judge , or so speake of any , that in these dayes should forsake our churches , and turne mahumetans ; such a departure makes men apostates not schismaticks . of this sort many are mentioned in the scriptures . nor are they accounted schismaticks , because the lesser crime is swallowed up and drowned in the greater , but because their sin is wholly of another nature . of some , who withdraw themselves from church communion , at least for a season , by their disorderly and irregular walking we have also mention . the apostle calls them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 thes . 5. 14. unruly , or disorderly persons , not abiding in obedience to the order prescribed by christ in , and unto his churches : and sayes , they walked 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 thess . 3 6. out of all church order : whom he would have warned and avoided : so also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 th. 3 2. persons that abide quietly in no place or station , but wandred up & down ; whom whatever their profession be , he denies to have faith . that there were many of this sort in the primitive times , who through a vaine and slight spirit neglected , and fell off from church assemblyes , when yet they would not openly renounce the faith of christ , is known . of such disorderly persons we have many in our dayes wherein we live , whom we charge not with schisme , but vanity , folly , disobedience to the precepts of christ in generall . men also separated themselves from the churches of christ upon the account of sensuality , that they might freely indulge to their lusts and live in all manner of pleasure all their dayes jude 19. these are they that separate themselves , sensuall , having not the spirit ; who are these ? they that turne the grace of god into lasciviousnesse and that deny the lord god , and our saviour jesus christ , v. 4. that defile the flesh after the manner of sodom and gomorrah , v. 7 , 8. that spoke evill of things they knew not , and in things they knew naturally as bruit beasts they corrupted themselves v. 10. sinning openly like beasts against the light of nature , so v. 12 , 13 , 16. these saith the apostle are they that separate themselves , men given over to worke all uncleannesse with delight and greedinesse in the face of the son , abusing themselves and justifying their abominations with a pretence of the grace of god. that there is any blameable separation from , or relinquishment of any church or churches of christ , mentioned in the scripture ; but what may be referred to one of those heads , i am yet to learne . now whether the men of these abominations are to be accounted schismaticks , or their crime in separating themselves to be esteemed schisme , it is not hard to judge : if on any of these accounts , any persons have withdrawn themselves from the communion of any church of christ , if they have on any motives of feare , or love apostatized from the faith of the gospell , if they doe it , by walking disorderly and loosely in their conversations , if they give themselves up to sensuality and uncleannesse , and so be no more able to beare the society of them , whom god hath called to holinesse and purity of life , and worship , they shall assuredly beare their own burthen . but none of these instances are comprehensive of the case inquired after ; so that for a close of them , i say , for a man to withdraw or withhold himselfe from the communion externall and visible of any church or churches , on the pretension and plea , be it true or otherwise , that the worship , doctrine , discipline instituted by christ is corrupted among them , with which corruption he dares not defile himselfe , it is no where in the scripture called schisme , no● is that case particularly exemplified , or expressely supposed , whereby a judgement may be made of the fact at large ; but we are left upon the whole matter , to the guidance of such generall principles and rules , as are given us for that end and purpose . what may regularly , on the other hand , be deduced from the commands given to turne away from them , who have only a forme of godlinesse , 2 tim. 3. 5. to withdraw from them that walk disorderly , 2 thes . 3. 6. not to beare , nor endure in communion , men of corrupt principles , and wicked lives , rev. 2. 14. but positively to separate from an apostate church , rev. 18. 4 : that in all things we may worship christ according to his mind and appointment , what is the force of these commands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the like , is without the compasse of what i am now treating about . of one particular church ▪ departing from that communion with another , or others , be it what it will , which it ought to hold , unlesse in the departing of some of them , in some things , from the common faith , which is supposed not to relate to schisme , in the scripture , we have no example . diotrephes assuming an authority over that church , wherein he was placed , 3 joh. 9 , 10. and for a season hindering the brethren from the performance of the duty incumbent upon them , toward the great apostle and others , makes the nearest approach to such a division : but yet in such a distance , that it is not at all to our purpose in hand . when i come to consider that communion , that churches have , or ought to have among themselves , this will be more fully discussed . neither is this my sence alone , that there is no instance of any such separation as that , which is the matter of our debate , to be found in the scripture . it is confessed by others differing from me , in and about church affaires . to leave all ordinary communion in any church with dislike , where opposition , or offence offers it selfe , is to separate from such a church in the scripture sence ; such separation was not in being in the apostles time , say they , pap●●accom . p. 55. but how they came to know exactly the sence of the scripture in & about things not mentioned in them , i know not . as i said before , were i unwilling , i doe not as yet understand how i may be compelled to carry on the notion of schisme any farther : nor is there need of adding any thing to demonstrate how little the conscience of a godly man , walking peaceably in any particular church society , is concerned in all the clamarous disputes of this age about it ; being built on false hypotheses , presumptions , and notions , no other way considerable , but as received by tradition from our fathers . but i shall for the sake of some carry on this discourse to a fuller issue ; there is another common notion of schisme , which pleads to an originall from that spoken expressly of it , by a parity of reason , which tolerable in it selfe , hath been and is injuriously applyed , and used , according as it hath fallen into the hands of men , who needed it as an engine to fixe or improve them in the station wherein they are , or were ; & wherewith they are pleased . indeed being invented for severall purposes , there is nothing more frequent then for men , who are scarce able to keep off the force of it from their own heads , whilest mannaged against them by them above ; at the same time vigorously to apply it for the oppression of all under them . what is on all hands consented unto , as its generall nature , i shall freely grant , that i might have liberty and advantage thence to debate the restriction and application of it to the severall purposes of men , prevailing themselves thereon . let then the generall demand be granted , that schisme is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the breach of vnion ; which i shall attend with one reasonable postulatum , namely , that this union be an union of the appointment of jesus christ ; the consideration then of what , or what sort of union in reference to the worship of god according to the gospell , is instituted & appointed by jesus christ , is the proper foundation of what i have farther to offer in this businesse . let the breach of this if you please be accounted schisme , for being an evill , i shall not contend by what name or title it be distinguished . it is not pleaded , that any kind of relinquishment or desertion of any church or churches , is presently schisme , but only such a separation , as breakes the bond of vnion instituted by christ . now this union being instituted in the church , according to the various acceptions of that word , so is it distinguished . therefore for a discovery of the nature of that which is particularly to be spoken to , and also its contrary , i must shew 1. the severall considerations of the church , wherein , and with which , union is to be preserved . 2. what that union is , and wherein it doth consist , which according to the minde of christ we are to keep and observe with the church , under the severall notions of it respectively . 3 and how that union is broken , and what is that sinne whereby it is done . in handling this triple proposall , i desire that it may not be expected that i should much insist on any thing that falls in my way , though never so usefull to my end and purpose , which hath been already proved and confirmed by others beyond all possibility of controule ; and such will many , if not most of the principles , that i proceed upon , appeare to be . cap. iv. severall acceptations in the scripture of the name church . of the church catholick properly so called . of the church visible . perpetuity of particular churches . a mistake rectifyed . the nature of the church catholick evinced . bellarmine his description of the church catholick . vnion of the church catholick wherein it consists . vnion by way of consequence . vnity of faith. of love. the communion of the catholick church in , and with itsselfe . the breach of the vnion of the church catholick , wherein it consisteth . not morally possible . protestants not guilty of it . the papall world out of interest in the church catholick . as partly profane . miracles no evidence of holinesse . partly ignorant . selfe justitiaries . idolatrous . worshippers of the beast . to begin with the first thing proposed . the church of christ living in this world ( as to our present concernment ) is taken in scripture three wayes . 1. for the mysticall body of christ , his elect , redeemed , justifyed and sanctifyed ones throughout the world , commonly called the church-catholick-militant . 2. for the vniversality of men throughout the world , called by the preaching of the word , visibly professing and yeilding obedience to the gospell ; called by some the church-catholick visible . 3. for a particular church of some place , wherein the instituted worship of god in christ is celebrated according to his minde . from the rise & nature of the things themselves , doth this distinction of the signification of the word church arise ; for whereas the church is a society of men called out of the world , it is evident there is mention of a twofold call in scripture , one effectuall , according to the purpose of god rom. 8. 28. the other only externall . the church must be distinguished according to its answer , and obedience to these calls , which gives us the two first states and considerations of it . and this is confessed by the ordinary glosse , ad rom. 8. vocatio exterior fit per praedicatores , & est communis bonorum , & malorum , interior vero tantum est electorum . and whereas there are lawes and externall rules for joynt communion , given to them that are called , ( which is confessed ) the necessity of churches in the last acceptation , wherein obedience can alone be yeilded to those laws , is thereby established . in the first sence the church hath as such , the properties of perpetuity , invisibility , infallibility , as to all necessary meanes of salvation attending of it ; not as notes whereby it may be known , either in the whole , or any considerable part of it , but as certaine adjuncts of its nature , and existence . neither are there any signes of lesse or more certainty , whereby the whole may be discerned , or known as such ; though there are of the individualls , whereof it doth consist . in the second , the church hath perpetuity visibility , & infallibility as qualifyed above , in a secondary sence ; namely , not as such , not as visible and confessing , but as comprizing the individualls whereof the catholick church doth consist . for all that truely believe , professe ; though all that professe , doe not truely believe . whether christ hath had alwayes a church in the last sence , and acceptation of the word , in the world , is a most needlesse enquiry : nor are we concerned in it , any farther then in other matters of fact , that are recorded in story : though i am apt to believe , that although very many in all ages kept up their station in , & relation to the church in the two former acceptations , yet there was in some of them scarce any visible society of worshippers , so far answering the institution of christ , as to render them fit to be owned and joyned withall , as a visible particular church of christ : but yet , though the notions of men were generally corrupt , the practice of all professours throughout the world , whereof so little is recorded , at least of them that did best , is not rashly to be determined of . nor can our judgement be censured in this , by them who think , that when christ lay in the grave , there was no believer left , but his mother , and that the church was preserved in that one person : so was bernard minded tractat. de pass . dom. ( ego sum vitis ) s●la per illud triste sabbathum stetit in fide , & salvata fuit ecclesia in ipsa sola . of the same minde is marsilius in sent. quaest 20. art. 3. as are also others of that sort of men , see bannes in 2. 2. thom. quaest. 1. art. 10. i no way doubt of the perpetuall existence of innumerable believers in every age , and such as made the profession , that is absolutely necessary to salvation one way or other : though i question a regular association of men , for the celebration of instituted worship , according to the mind of christ . the 7000 in israel , in the dayes of elijah , were members of the church of god , and yet did not constitute a church state among the ten tribes . but these things must be farther spoken to . i cannot but by the way reminde a learned person , with whom i have formerly occasionally had some debate in print , about episcopacy , and the state of the first churches , of a mistake of his , which he might have prevented with a little enquiry into the judgement of them , whom he undertook to confute at a venture . i having said , that there was not any ordinary church officer instituted in the first times , relating to more churches in his office , or to any other church then a single particular congregation ; he replyes , that this is the very same , which his memory suggested to him out of the saints beliefe , printed 12 or 14 yeares since , where instead of that article of the apostolick symbole , the holy catholick church , this very hypothesis was substituted . if he really believed that in professing i owned no instituted church with officers of one denomination in scripture , beyond a single sence v. 24. saith the apostle , i fill up that congregation , i renounced the catholick church , or was any way necessitated so to doe , i suppose he may by what hath now been expressed , be rectifyed in his apprehension . if he was willing only to make use of the advantage , wherewith he supposed himselfe accommodated by that expression , to presse the perswasion owned in the minds of ignorant men , who could not but startle at the noyse of denying the catholick church , it may passe at the same rate , that most of the reports in such discourses are to be allowed at . but to proceed . in the first sence the word is used mat. 16. 28. upon this rock will i build my church , and the gates of hell shall not prevaile against it ; this is the church of the elect , redeemed , justifyed , sanctifyed ones , that are so built on christ ; and these only , and all these are interested in the promise made to the church , as such in any sence , but is peculiarly made therein , to every one , that is truely & properly a part , & member of that church . who , and who only are interested in that promise christ himselfe declares joh. 6. 40. joh. 10 28 , 29. joh. 17. 20 , 24. they that will apply this to the church in any other sence must know that it is incumbent on them to establish the promise made to it unto every one that is a true member of the church in that sence which whatever be the sence of the promise , i suppose they will find difficult worke of . eph. 5. 25 , 26 , 27. christ loved the church , and gave himselfe for it , that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word , that he might present it to himselfe a glorious church not having spot , or wrinkle , or any such thing . he speakes only of those , whom christ loved antecedently to his dying for them , whereof his love to them was the cause ; who they are is manifest , joh. 10. 15. joh. 17. 17. and those on whom by his death he accomplished the effects mentioned , of washing , cleansing and sanctifying bringing them into the condition promised to the bride the lambs wife , rev. 19. 8. which is the new jerusalem , rev. 21. 2. of elected & saved ones v. 27. col. 1. 18. containes an expression of the same light and evidence ; christ is the head of the body the church ; not only a governing head , to give it rules and lawes , but as it were a naturall head unto the body , which is influenced by him with a new spirituall life , which bellarmine professeth against , as any requisite condition to the members of the catholick church , which he pleadeth for : in that same which is behind of the afflictions of christ in my flesh , for his bodies sake ▪ which is the church : which assertion is exactly paralell to that of 2 tim. 2. 10. therefore i endure all things for the elects sake , that they may obtaine salvation ; so that the elect and the church are the same persons under severall considerations ; and therefore even a particular church , on the account of its participation of the nature of the catholick , is called elect , 1 pet. 5. 13. and so the church mat. 16. 18. is expounded by our saviour himselfe mat. 22. 24. but to prove at large by a multiplication of arguments and testimonies , that the catholick church , or mysticall body of christ consists of the whole number of the elect , as redeemed , justifyed , sanctifyed , called , believing , and yeilding obedience to christ throughout the world ( i speake of it as militant in any one age ) and of them only , were as needlessly actum agere , as a man can well devise . it is done already , and that to the purpose uncontroulably , terque quaterque . and the substance of the doctrine is delivered by aquinas himselfe p. 3. q. 8. a. 3. in briefe , the summe of the inquiry upon this head , is concerning the matter of that church , concerning which such glorious things are spoken in scripture ; namely , that it is the spouse , the wife , the bride , the sister , the only one of christ , his d●ve undefiled , his temple , elect , redeemed , his sione , his body , his new jerusalem ; concerning which inquiry , the reader knowes where he may abundanly find satisfaction . that the asserting the catholick church in this sence is no new apprehension , is known to them , who have at all looked backward to what was past before us . omnibus consideratis ( saith austin ) puto me non temere dicere , alios ita esse in domo dei , ut ips● etiam sint eadem domus dei , quae dicitur aedificari supra petram , quae unica columba appellatur , quae sponsa pulchra sine macula , & ruga , & hortus conclusus , fons signatus , patens aquae vivae , paradisus cum fructu pomorum , alios autem ita constat esse in domo , ut non pertineant ad compagem domus — sed sicut esse palea dicitur in frumentis . de bapt. lib. 1. cap. 51. who is herein followed by not a few of the papists : hence saith biel. accipitur etiam ecclesia pro tota multitudine praedestinatorum . in canon . miss . lec . 22. in what sence this church is invisible , was before declared . men elected , redeemed , justifyed , as such are not visible , for that which makes them so , is not : but this hinders not but that they may be so upon other consideration ; sometimes to more , sometimes to fewer , yea they are so alwayes to some . those that are may be seen ; and when we say they are visible , we do not intend that they are actually seen by any that we know , but that they may be so . bellarmine gives us a description of this catholick church ( as the name hath of late been used at the pleasure of men , and wrested to serve every designe that was needfull to be carryed on ) to the interest which he was to contend for , but in it self perfectly ridiculous . he tells us out of austine that the church is a living body , wherein is a body and a soule , thence saith he the soule is the internall graces of the spirit , faith , hope , and love : the body is the externall profession of faith ; some are of the soul and body perfectly united to christ by faith , and the profession of it ; some are of the soule that are not of the body , as the catechumeni , which are not as yet admitted to be members of the visible church , but yet are true believers . some saith he , are of the body , that are not of the soul , who having no true grace , yet out of hope or temporall feare , doe make profession of the faith , and these are like the haire , nailes , and ill humours in an humane body . now saith , bellarmine our definition of a church comprizeth only this last sort , whilst they are under the head the pope ; which is all one , as if he had defined a man to be a dead creature , composed of haire , nailes , and ill humours , under an hat : but of the church in this sence so farre . it remaineth then , that we enquire what is the vnion which the church in this sense hath , from the wisdome of its head jesus christ . that it is one , that hath an union with its head , and in it selfe , is not questioned . it is one sheepfold , one body , one spouse of christ , his only one as unto him , and that it might have onenesse in it selfe , with all the fruits of it , our saviour praies , joh. 17. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. the whole of it is described eph. 4. 15 , 16. may grow up into him in all things , which is the head even christ , from whom the whole body fitly joyned together , and compacted , by that which every joynt supplieth , according to the effectuall working in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body , to the edifying it selfe in love . and of the same importance is that of the same apostle , col : 2. 19. not holding the head , from which all the body by joynts and bands having nourishment ministred , and knit together , increaseth with the increase of god. now in the union of the church in every sense , there is considerable , both the formalis ratio of it , whence it is , what it is , and the way , and meanes , whereby it exerts it selfe , and is usefull and active in communion ▪ the first , in the church , as now stated , consists in its joynt holding the head , and growing up into him by vertue of the communication of supplies unto it therefrom , for that end & purpose . that which is the formall reason , and cause of the union of the members with the head , is the formall reason and cause of the union of the members with themselves . the originall vnion of the members is in and with the head ; and by the same have they union with themselves as one body . now the inhabitation of the same spirit in him and them , is that which makes christ personall , and his church , to be one christ mysticall , 1 cor. 12. 12. peter tells us , that we are by the promises made partakers of the divine nature , 2 pet. 1. 4. we are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we have communion with it ; that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is no more but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i cannot easily consent . now it is in the person of the spirit whereof we are by the promise made partakers : he is the spirit of promise eph. 1. 13. promised by god to christ , act. 2. 33. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and by him to us joh. 14. 16. being of old the great promise of the covenant is . 59. 21. ezek. 11. 17. cap. 26. 36. now in the participation of the divine nature consists the vnion of the saints with christ . ioh. 6. 5. our saviour tells us , that it arises from eating his flesh and drinking his blood : he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me , and i in him . this he expounds v. 63. it is the spirit that quickneth , the flesh profiteth not . by the quickning spirit , inhabitation in christ , and christ in it , is intended . and the same he manifests in his prayer that his church may be one in the father , and the sonne , as the father is in him , and he in the father ioh. 17. 21. for the spirit being the love of the father , and of the son , is vinculum trinitatis : and so here of our union in some resemblance . the unity of members in the body naturall with one head is often chosen to set forth the union of the church 1 cor. 12. 12. 1 cor. 11. 3. eph 5. 23. col. 1. 19. now every man can tell , that , union of the head and members , whereby they become all one body , that and not another , is onenesse of soule ; whereby the whole is animated , which makes the body , be it lesse or greater , to be one body . that which answers hereunto , in the mysticall body of christ , is the animation of the whole by his spirit , as the apostle fully 1 cor. 15. 45. the union between husband and wife is also chosen by the holy ghost to illustrate the union between christ and his church . for this cause shall a man forsake his father and his mother and cleave to his wife , and they two shall be one flesh ; this is a great mystery , but i speake concerning christ and his church , eph. 5. 31 , 32. the union between man and wife we have gen. 2. 24. they be no more twaine but one flesh ; of christ and his church that they are one spirit . for he that is joyned to the lord is one spirit , 1 cor. 6. 17. see also another similitude of the same importance ioh. 15. 5. rom. 11. 16 , 17. this i say is the fountain radicall union of the church catholick in its selfe , with its head and formall reason of it . hence flowes a double consequentiall vnion that it hath also . 1. of faith. all men , united to christ by the inhabitation of the same spirit in him and them , are by it from , and according to the word , taught of god , is . 54. 13. ioh. 6. 45. so taught every one of them , as to come to christ v. 46. that is by bilieving , by faith . they are so taught of god , as that they shall certainly have that measure of knowledge and faith , which is needfull to bring them to christ , and to god by him . and this they have by the unction or spirit , which they have received 1 ioh. 2. 21 , 27. accompaning the word by vertue of gods covenant with them , is . 59. 29. and hereby are all the members of the church catholick , however divided in their visible profession , by any differences among themselves , or differenced by the severall measures of gifts and graces they have received , brought to the perfection aymed at , to the unity of the faith , & to the acknowledgement of the son of god , to a perfect man , to the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ , eph. 4. 13. nor was this hidden from some of the papists themselves . ecclesia sancta corpus est christi una spiritu vivificata , unita fide una , & sanctificata . saith hugo de victore , de sacram lib. 2. as he had said before in the former cap. sicut scriptum est qui non habet spiritum christi , hic non est ejus : qui non habet spiritum christi , non est membrum christi : in corpore uno spiritus unus , nihil in corpore mortuum , nihil extra corpus vivum . see to the same purpose enchirid. concil colon in symbol . with peculiar reference to the members themselves , there is another necessary consequence of the union mentioned ; and that is the mutuall love of all those united in the head as before towards one another , and of every one towards the whole , as so united in the head christ jesus ; there is an increase made of the body to the edifying it selfe in love eph. 4. 16. and so it becomes the bond of perfectnesse to this body of christ . i cannot say , that the members or parts of this church have their union in themselves by love ; because they have that with , and in christ , whereby they are one in themselves ioh. 17. 21 , 23. they are one in god even in christ , where their life is hid col. 3. 3. but it is the next and immediate principle of that communion , which they severally have one with another , and the whole body , in and with it selfe . i say then that the communion which the catholick church , the mysticall body of christ , hath , with and in it selfe , springing from the union , which it hath in and with christ , and in it selfe , thereby , consists in love , exerting it selfe in inexpressible variety , according to the present state of the whole , its relation to christ , to saints and angells , with the conditions and occasions of the members of it respectively , 1 cor. 12. 26 , 27. what hath been spoken concerning the union and communion of this church , will not i suppose , meet with any contradiction . granting that there is such a church , as that we speake of , coetus praedestinatorum credentium , the papists themselves will grant that christ alone is its head , and that its union ariseth from its subjection to him , and dependance on him . their modesty makes them contented with constituting the pope in the roome of christ , as he is as it were a politicall head for government ; they have not as yet directly put in their claime to his office as a mysticall head , influencing the body with life and motion : though by their figment of the sacraments communicating grace , ex opere operato , and investing the originall power of dispencing them in the pope only , they have contended faire for it . but if any one can informe me of any other union , or communion of the church , described as above , then these laid downe , i shall willingly attend unto his instructions : in the mean time , to carry on the present discourse unto that which is aimed at , it is manifest , that the breach of this union must consist in these two things . 1. first , the casting out , expelling , and looseing that spirit , which abiding in us , gives us this union . 2. the losse of that love , which thence flowes into the body of christ , and believers , as parts and members thereof . this being the state of the church under the first consideration of it , certainly it would be an extravagancy scarcely to be parallel'd , for any one to affirme a breach of this union as such , to be schisme under that notion of it , which we are enquiring after . but because there is very little security to be enjoyed in an expectation of the sobriety of men in things wherein they are , or suppose they may be concerned , that they may know before hand , what is farther incumbent on them , if in reference to us , they would prevaile themselves of any such notion , i here informe them that our perswasion is , that this union was never utterly broken by any man taken into it , or ever shall be to the end of the world ; and i suppose they esteeme it vaine to dispute about the ad●uncts , of that which is denyed to be . but yet this perswasion being not common to us , with them with whom we have to doe in this matter , i shall not farther make use of it , as to our present defence . that any other union of the catholick church , as such , can possibly be fancyed or imagined by any ▪ ( as to the substance of what hath been pleaded ) leaving him a plea for the ordinary so●ndnes of his intellectualls , is denyed . let us see now then what is our concernment in this discourse ; unlesse men can prove that we have not the spirit of god , that we do not savingly believe in jesus christ , that we doe not sincerely love all the saints , his whole body , and every member of it , they cannot disprove our interest in the catholick church . it is true indeed , men that have so great a confidence of their own abilities , and such a contempt of the world , as to undertake to dispute them out of conclusions from their naturall sences , about their proper objects , in what they see , feele , and handle , and will not be satisfied , that they have not proved there is no motion , whilst a man walks for a conviction under their eye ; may probably venture to disprove us , in our spirituall sense and experience also , and to give us arguments , to perswade us that we have not that communion with christ , which we know we have every day . although i have a very meane perswasion of my own abilities , yet i must needs say , i cannot think that any man in the world can convince me , that i doe not love jesus christ in sincerity , because i doe not love the pope , as he is so . spirituall experience is a security against a more cunning sophister , then any jesu●●te in the world , with whom the saint● of god have to deale all their lives , eph. 6. 12. and doubtlesse through the rich grace of our god , helpe will arise to us , that we shall never make a covenant with these men for peace , upon conditions for worse then those that nahash would have exacted on the men of jabesh gilead● , which were but the losse of one eye with an abiding reproach : they requiring of us , the deprivation of whatsoever we have to see by , whether as men , or christians , and that with a reproach , never to be blotted out . but as we daily put our consciences upon triall as to this thing 1 cor. 13. 5. and are put unto it by sathan ; so are we readie at all times to give an account to our adversaries of the hope that us in us . let them sift us to the utmost , it will be to our advantage . only let them not bring frivolous objections , and such as they know are of no weight with us ; speaking ( as is their constant manner ) about the pope and their church , things utterly forraigne to what we are presently about , miserably begging the thing in question . let them weigh ( if they are able ) the true nature of vnion with christ , of faith in him , of love to the saints ; consider them in their proper causes adjuncts and effects with a sprituall eye , laying aside their prejudices and intolerable impositions ; if we are found wanting as to the truth and sincerity of these things , if we cannot give some account of our translation from death to life , of our implantation into christ , and our participation of the spirit , we must beare our own burthen : if otherwise , we stand fast on the most noble and best account of church vnion what ever ; and whilest this shield is safe , we are lesse ●mxious about the issue of the ensuing contest . whatever may be the apprehensions of other men , i am not in this thing sollicitous ( i speake not of my selfe , but assuming for the present the person of one concerning whom these things may be spoken , ) whilest the efficacy of the gospell accomplisheth in my heart all those divine , and mighty effects ; which are ascribed unto it as peculiarly , it workes towards them that believe ; whilest i know this one thing , that whereas i was blind , now i see , whereas i was a servant of sinne , i am now free to righteousnesse & at liberty from bondage unto death , & instead of the fruits of the flesh , i find all the fruits of the spirit brought forth in me to the praise of gods glorious grace ; whilest i have an experience of that powerfull work of conversion , and being borne againe , which i am able to mannage against all the accusations of satan , having peace with god upon justification by faith , with the love of god shed abroad in my heart by the holy ghost investing me in the priviledges of adoption , i shall not certainly be moved with the disputes of men , that would perswade me , i doe not belong to the catholick church , because i doe not follow this , or that , or any part of men in the world . but you will say , this you will allow to them also with whom you have to doe , that they may be members of the catholick church ; i leave other men to stand or fall to their own master : only as to the papall multitude on the account of severall inconsistencies between them , and the members of this church , i shall place some swords in the way , which will reduce their number to an invisible scantling ; i might content my selfe by affirming at once , that upon what hath been spoken , i must exclude from the catholick church all , and every one , whom bellarmine intends to include in it as such ; namely those , who belong to the church as hairs and ill humours to the body of a man. but i adde in particular . 1. all wicked and prophane persons , of whom the scripture speakes expressly that they shall not enter into the kingdome of god , are indisputably cut off : whatever they pretend in shew at any time in the outward duties of devotion , they have neither faith in christ , nor love to the saints : and so have part and fellowship neither in the union nor communion of the catholick church . how great a proportion of that synogogue , whereof we are speaking , will be taken off by this sword ; of their popes , princes , prelates , clergie , votaries , and people , and that not by a rule of private surmises , but upon the visible issue of their being servants to sin , ●aters of god , and good men , is obvious to all . persons of really so much as reformed lives amongst them are like the berries after the shaking of an olive tree 1 cor 6. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. rev. 22. 15. i find some persons of late appropriating holinesse and regeneration to the romane partie , on this account , that among them only miracles are wrought ; which is say they the only proofe of true holinesse . but these men erre as their predecessors , not knowing the scriptures , nor the power of god. amongst all the evidences that are given in scripture of regeneration ; i suppose they will scarcely find this to be one ; and they who have no other assurance that they are themselves borne of god , but that some of their church worke miracles , had need maintaine also that no man can be assured thereof in this life . they will find that a broken reed if they leane upon it . will it evince all the members of their church to be regenerate , or only some ? if they say all ; i aske then what becomes of bellarmin's church , which is made up of them , who are not regenerate , if some only i desire to know on what account the miracles of one man may be an evidence to some in his society that they are regenerate and not to others ? or whether the foundation of that distinction must not lye in themselves ; but the truth is , the miracles now pretended are an evidence of a contrary condition to what these men are willing to own 2 thess 2. 11 , 12. 2. all ignorant persons , into whose hearts god hath not shined to give them the knowledg of his glory in the face of jesus christ , are to be added to the former account . there is a measure of knowledg of absolute & indispensable necessity to salvation , whereof how short the most of them are , is evident . among the open abominations of the papall combination , for which they ought to be an abhorrencie to mankind , their professed designe of keeping the people in ignorance is not the least , hos . 4. 6. that it was devotion to themselves , and not to god , which they aymed to advance thereby , is by experience sufficiently evinced : but that , whose reverence is to be preserved by its being hid , is in it selfe contemptible . what other thoughts wise men could have of christian religion in their mannagement of it , i know not . woe to you romish clergie , for you have taken away the key of knowledge , yee enter'd not in your selves , and them that were entering in you hindred . the people hath perished under your hands for want of knowledge , zech : 11. 15 , 16 , 17. the sigment of an implicite faith , as mannaged by these men , to charme the spirits and consciences of poor perishing creatures with securitie in this life , will be found as pernitious to them in the issue , as their purgatorie , invented on the same account , will be uselesse . 3. adde to these all hypocriticall selfe-justiciaries who seek for a righteousnesse as it were by the workes of the law , which they never attained to rom. 9. 31 , 32. though they take paines about it chap. 10. 15. eph. 2. 8 , 9 , 10 , 11. by this sword will fall the fattest cattell of their herd . how the hand of the lord on this account sweeps away their devo●ionists , and therein takes down the pride of their glory , the day will discover ; yet besides these , there are two other things that will cut them down as the grasse falls before the sith of the mower . 1. the first of these is idolatry : be not deceived , no idolaters shall inherit the kingdome of god , 1 cor. 6. 9. without are idolaters , rev. 22. 15. this added to their lives hath made christian religion , where known only as by them professed , to be an abomination to jewes and gentiles . some will one day besides himselfe answer for averroes determining of the case as to his soule . quoniam christiani adorant quod comedunt , anima mea sit cum philosophis . whether they are idolaters or no , whether they yeild the worship due to the creator to the creature , hath been sisted to the utmost , and the charge of its evill , which the jealous god doth of all things most abhore , so fastened on them beyond all possibility of escape , that one of the wisest of them hath at length fixed on that most desperate and profligate refuge , that some kind of idolatry is lawfull , because peter mentions abominable idolatries , 1 pet. 4. 5. who is therein so farre from distinguishing of severall sorts & kinds of it to any such purpose as that he aggravates all sort , & kinds of it with the epithet of nefarious , or abominable . a man may say , what is there almost that they have not committed lewdnesse in this kind withall ; on every hill , and under every green tree is the filth of their abomination found ; saints & angells in heaven ; images of some that never were , of others , that had been better they never had been ; bread and wine , crosse and nailes , altars , wood , and iron , and the pope on earth are by them adored . the truth is , if we have any assurance left us of any thing in the world , that we either see or heare , feel or tast and so consequently that we are alive , and not other men , the poor indians who worship a piece of red cloth , are not more grosse idolaters then they are . 2. all that worship the best set up by the dragon , all that receive his marke in their hands , or forehead , are said not to have their names written in the booke of life of the lambe rev. 13 8. which what aspect it bears towards the visible roman church time will manifest . all these sorts of persons we except against , as those , that have no interest in the union of the catholick-church . all prophane , ignorant , selfe-justiciaries , all idolaters , worshippers , or adorers of the papall power , if any remaine among them , not one way or other visibly separated from them , who fall not under some one or more of these exceptions ; as we grant they may be members , of the catholick-church , so we deny , that they are of that which is called the roman . and i must needs informe others by the way , that whilest the course of their conversation , ignorance of the mystery of the gospell , hatred of good men , contempt of the spirit of god , his gifts and graces , do testify to the consciences of them , that feare the lord , that they belong not to the church catholick , it renders their rebuking of others , for separating from any instituted church nationall , ( as is pretended ) or more restrained , very weake , and contemptible . all discourses about meats , have a worme at the root , whilest there is a beame lies in the eye . doe men suppose that a man who hath tasted how gratious the lord is , and hath by grace obtained communion with the father and his sonne jesus christ , walking at peace with god , and in a sense of his love all his daies , filled with the holy ghost , and by him with joy unspeakable and glorious in believing , is not strengthened against the rebukes , and disputes of men , whom he sees and knows by their fruits , to be destitute of the spirit of god , uninterested in the fellowship of the gospell , and communion thereof . chap. v. of the catholick church visible . of the nature thereof . in what sense the vniversality of professors is called a church amiraldus his judgement in this businesse . the vnion of the church in this sense wherein it consists . not the same with the vnion of the church catholick . nor that of a particular instituted church . not in relation to any one officer , or more , in subordination to one another . such a subordination not proveable . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the nicene synod . of generall councells . vnion of the church visible not in a generall councell . the true vnity of the vniversality of professors asserted . things necessary to this union . story of a martyr at bagdat . the apostacy of churches from the unity of the faith. testimony of hegesippus vindicated papall apostacy . protestants not guilty of the breach of this vnity . the catholick church in the sence insisted on , granted by the ancients . not a politicall body . the second generall notion of the church , as it is usually taken , signifies the vniversality of men professing the doctrine of the gospell , and obedience to god in christ , according to it , throughout the world. this is that , which is commonly called the visible catholick church , which now together with the union , which it hath in its selfe , and how that unity is broken , falls under consideration . that all professors of the gospell throughout the world , called to the knowledge of christ by the word , doe make up , and constitute his visible kingdome , by their professed subjection to him , and so may be called his church , i grant . that they are precisely so called in scripture is not unquestionable . what relation it stands in to all particular churches , whether as a genus to its species , or as a totum to its parts , hath lately by many been discussed . i must crave leave to deny that it is capable of filling up , or of being included in , any of these denominations and relations . the vniversall church we are speaking of , is not a thing that hath as such , a specificative forme , from which it should be called an vniversall church ; as a particular hath for its ground of being so called . it s but a collection of all that are duely called christians in respect of their profession ; nor are the severall particular churches of christ in the world , so parts and members of any catholick church , as that it should be constituted , or made up by them and of them , for the order and purpose of an instituted church , that is the cellebration of the worship of god , and institutions of jesus christ according to the gospell ; which to assert , were to overthow a remarkable difference between the oeconomy of the old testament & the new nor do i think that particular congregations doe stand unto it in the relation of species unto a genus , in which the whole nature of it should be preserved and comprized , which would deprive every one of membership in this vniversall church , which is not joyned actually to some particular church or congregation , then which nothing can be more devoid of truth . to debate the thing in particular , is not my present intention , nor is needfull to the purpose in hand . the summe is , the vniversall church is not so called upon the same account that a particular church is so called . the formal reason constituting a particular church to be a particular church , is , that those of whom it doth consist , doe joyne together according to the minde of christ in the excercise of the same numericall ordinances for his worship : and in this sence the vniversal church cannot be said to be a church , as though it had such a particular forme of its own ; which that it hath , or should have , is not only false but impossible . but it is so called , because all christians throughout the world ( excepting some individuall persons providentially excluded ) do upon the enjoyment of the same preaching of the word , the same sacraments administred in specie , profes one common faith and hope ; but to the joynt performance of any exercise of religion , that they should hea●e one sermon together , or partake of one sacrament , or have one officer for their rule and government , is ridiculous to imagine ; nor doe any professe to think so , as to any of the particulars mentioned , but those only , who have profit by the fable . as to the description of this church , i shall acquiesce in that lately given of it by a very learned man. saith he , ecclesia vniversalis ▪ est communio , seu societas omnium coetuum ( i had rather he had said , and he had done it more agreeable to principles by himselfe laid down ) omnium fidem christianam profitentium ( sive illi ad ecclesias aliquas particulares pertineant , sive non pertineant ) qui religionem christianam profitentur , consistens in eo , quod tamet●● neque exercitia pietatis uno numero frequentent , neque sacramenta eadem numero participent , neque uno eodemque omnino ordine regantur , & gubernentur , unum tamen corpus in eo constituunt , quôd eundem christum servatorem habere se profitentur , uno in evangelio propositum , iisdem promissionibus comprehensum , quas obsignant , & confirmant sacramenta , ex eadem institutione pendentia . amyrald . thes . de eccles . nom & defin the. 29. there being then in the world a great multitude , which no man can number , of all nations , kindreds , people , and languages , professing the doctrine of the gospell , not tied to mountaines , or hills , joh. 4. but worshipping 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1 cor. 1. 2. 1 tim. 2. 8. let us consider what union there is amongst them as such , wrapping them all in the bond thereof , by the will and appointment of jesus christ ; and wherein the breach of that union doth consist , and how any man is or may be guilty thereof . i suppose this will be granted : that only elect believers belong to the church in this sense considered , is a chimaera feigned in the braines of the romanists , and fastened on the reformed divines . i wholly assent to austins dispute on this head against the donatists : and the whole entanglement , that hath been about this matter , hath arisen from obstinacy in the papists in not receiving the catholick church in the sense mentioned before ; which to doe , they know would be injurious to their interest . this church being visible and professing , and being now considered under that constituting difference , that the union of it cannot be the same with that of the catholick church before mentioned , it is cleare from hence , that multitudes of men belong unto it , who have not the relation mentioned before to christ and his body ; which is required in all comprehended in that union ; seeing many are called , but few are chosen . nor can it consist in a joynt assembly , either ordinary or extraordinary , for the celebration of the ordinances of the gospell , or any one of them , as was the case of the church of the jewes , which met at set times in one place , for the performance of that worship , which was then required , nor could otherwise be accomplished . for as it is not at all possible , that any such thing should ever be done , considering what is , and shall be , the estate of christs visible kingdome to the end of the world ; so it is not ( that i know of ) pleaded , that christ hath made any such appointment : yea it is on all hands confessed , at least cannot reasonably be denyed , that there is a supersedeas granted to all supposalls of any such duty , incumbent on the whole visible church , by the institution of particular churches , wherein all the ordinances of christ are duely to be administred . i shall only adde , that if there be not an institution for the joyning in the same numericall ordinances , the vnion of this church is not really a church vnion ; i mean of an instituted church , which consists therein but something of another nature . neither can that have the formall reason of an instituted church as such , which as such can joyne in no one act of the worship of god instituted to be performed in such societies : so that he that shall take into his thoughts , the condition of all the christians in the world : their present state , what it hath been for 1500 years , and what it is like to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , will easily understand , what church state they stand in , and relate unto . 3. it cannot possibly have its union by a relation to any one officer given to the whole , such an one as the papists pretend the pope to be . for though it be possible that one officer may have relation to all the churches in the world , as the apostles severally had ( when paul said the care of all the churches lay on him ) who by vertue of their apostolicall commission were to be received , and submitted to in all the churches in the world , being antecedent in office to them , yet this neither did , nor could make all the churches one church ; no more then in one man were an officer or magistrate in every corporation in england , this would make all those corporations to be one corporation . i doe not suppose the pope to be an officer to the whole church visible as such , which i deny to have an union or order capable of any such thing , but suppose him an officer to every particular church , no union of the whole would thence ensue . that which is one church must joyne at least in some one church act , numerically one . so that though it should be granted , that the pope were a generall officer unto all and every church in the world , yet this would not prove , that they all made one church , and had their church-union in subjection to him , who was so an officer to them all ; because to the constitution of such an vnion , as hath been shewed , there is that required , which in reference to the universall society of christians , is utterly and absolutely impossible . but the non-institution of any such officer ordinarily to beare rule in , and over all the churches of god , hath been so abundantly proved by the divines of the reformed churches , and he who alone puts in his claime to that prerogative so clearly manifested to be quite another thing , that i will not needlessely goe over that work again ; something however shall afterwards be remarked , as to his pretensions , from the principles , whereon i proceed in the whole businesse . there is indeed by some pleaded a subordination of officers in this church , tending towards an union on that account ; as that ordinary ministers should be subject to di●cesan bishops , they to arch-bishops or metropolitans , they again to patriarchs ; where some would bound the processe , though a parity of reason would call for a pope . nor will the arguments pleaded for such a subordination rest , untill they come to be centred in some such thing . but [ 1 ] before this plea be admitted , it must be proved ; that all these officers are appointed by jesus christ ; or it will not concerne us , who are enquiring solely after his will , and the setling of conscience therein . to doe this with such an evidence , that the consciences of all those , who are bound to yeild obedience to jesus christ , may appeare to be therein concerned , will be a difficult task , as i suppose . and to settle this once for all ; i am not dealing with the men of that lazy perswasion , that church affairs are to be ordered by the prudence of our civill superiors and governors , and so seeking to justify a non submission to any of their constitutions , in the things of this nature , or to evidence , that the so doing is not schisme ; nor do i concerne my selfe in the order and appointment of ancient times , by men assembled in synods and councells , wherein whatever was the force of their determinations in their own seasons , we are not at all concerned , knowing of nothing that is obligatory to us , not pleading from soveraigne authority , or our own consent ; but it is after things of pure institution that i am enquiring . with them who say there is no such thing in these matters , we must proceed on other principles , then any yet laid downe . also it must be proved , that all these officers are given , and do belong to the catholick church as such , and not to the particular churches of severall measures , and dimensions , to which they relate ; which is not as yet , that i know of , so much as pretended by them , that plead for this order . they tell us indeed of various arbitrary distributions of the world , or rather of the roman empire into patriarchats , with the dependent jurisdictions mentioned ; and that all within the precincts of those patriarchats must fall within the lines of the subordination , subjection , and communication before described ; but as there is no subordination between the officers of one denomination in the inferior parts ; no more is there any between the superior themselves , but they are independent of each other . now it is easily discernable , that these patriarchats ( how many or how few soever they are ) are particular churches , not any one of them the catholick , nor altogether comprising all that are comprehended in the precincts of it , ( which none will say that ever they did ) and therefore this may speak something as to a combination of those churches , nothing as to the union of the catholick as such , which they are not . supposing this assertion to the purpose in hand ( which it is not at all ) it would prove only a combination of all the officers of severall churches , consisting in the subordination and dependance mentioned , not of the whole church it selfe , though all the members of it should be at once imagined or fancied ( as what shall hinder men from fancying what they please ) to be comprised within the limits of those distributions , unles it be also proved , that christ hath instituted severall sorts of particular churches parochiall , diocesan , metropoliticall patriarchall ( i use the words in the present vulgar acceptation , their signification having bin somewhat otherwise formerly ; paroecia being the care of a private bishop , provincia of a metropolitan , & diocesis of a patriarch ) in the order mentioned , and hath pointed out which of his churches shall be of those severall kinds throughout the world ; which that it will not be done to the disturbance of my principles , whilst i live i have some present good security . and because i take the men of this perswasion to be charitable men , that will not think much of taking a little paines for the reducing any person whatever from the errour of his way , i would intreat them that they would informe me what patriarchate according to the institution of christ , i ( who by the providence of god live here at oxon ) doe de jure belong unto ; that so i may know how to preserve the union of that church , and to behave my selfe therein ; and this i shall promise them , that if i were singly , or in conjunction with any others , so considerable , that those great officers should contend about , whose subjects we should be , ( as was done heretofore about the bulgarians , ) that it should not at all startle me about the truth and excellency of christian religion , as it did those poore creatures , who being newly converted to the faith , knew nothing of it but what they received from men of such principles . but that this constitution is humane , and the distributions of christians in subjection unto church officers , into such and such divisions of nations and countries prudentiall and aobitrary , i suppose ▪ will not be denyed . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the nicene synod intends no more ; nor is any thing of institution , nor so much as of apostolicall tradition pleaded therein . the following ages were of the same perswasion . hence in the councell of chalcedon the archiepiscopacy of constantinople was advanced into a patriarchat , and many provinces cast in subjection thereunto , wherein the primates of ephesus and thrace were cut short of what they might plead 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for . and sundry other alterations were likewise made in the same kind socrat lib. 5. cap. 8. the ground and reason of which procedure , the fathers assembled sufficiently manifest in the reason assigned for the advancement of the bishops of constantinople , which was for the cityes sake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 can. 3. con. constan . and what was the judgement of the councell of chalcedon upon this matter may be seen in the composition & determination of the strife between maximus bishop of antioch , and invenalis of hierusalem ac. 7. con. cal. with translation of provinces from the jurisdiction of one to another . and he that shall suppose that such assemblys as these were instituted by the will and appointment of christ in the gospell , with church authority for such dispositions and determinations , so as to make them of concernment to the unity of the church , will if i mistake not , be hardly bestead in giving the ground of that his supposall . 4. i would know of them who desire to be under this law , whether the power with which jesus christ hath furnished the officers of his church come forth from the supreame mentioned patriarchs and arch-bishops , and is by them communicated to the inferiors , or vice-versa ; or whether all have their power in an equall immediation from christ ; if the latter be granted , there will be a greater independency established then most men are aware of , ( though the papalins understood it in the councell of trent ) and a wound given to successive episcopall ordination , not easily to be healed . that power is communicated from the inferiors to the superiors will not be pleaded . and seeing the first must be insisted on , i beseech them not to be too hasty with men not so sharp sighted as themselves , if finding the names they speak of barbarous and forraigne as to the scriptures , and the things themselves not at all delineated therein , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 5. the truth is , the whole subordination of this kind , which de facto hath been in the world , was so cleerly an humane invention , or a prudentiall constitution ( as hath been shewed ) ( which being done by men professing authority in the church , gave it as it was called vi● ecclesiasticam ) that nothing else in the issue is pleaded for it . and now though i shall , if called thereunto manifest both the unreasonablenesse & unsuitablenes to the designe of christ for his worship under the gospell , comparative noveltie , and mischievous issue of that constitution ; yet at the present , being no farther concerned but only to evince that the union of the generall visible church doth not therein consist , i shall not need to adde any thing to what hath been spoken . the nicene councell , which first made towards the confirmation of something , like somewhat , of what was afterwards introduced in some places , pleaded only ( as i said before ) the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , old usage for it , which it would not have done , could it have given a better originall thereunto . and whatever the antiquities then pretended might be , we know that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and i doe not feare to say , what others have done before me , concerning the canons of that first and best generall councell , as it is called , they are all hay and stubble ; nor yet doth the laying this custome on 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in my apprehension , evince their judgement of any long prescription . peter speaking of a thing that was done a few years before , saies , that is was done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. 15. 7. somewhat a greater antiquity , then that by him intended , i can freely grant to the custome by the fathers pretended . but a generall councell is pleaded with the best colour and pretence for a bond of union to this generall & visible church . in consideration hereof , i shall not divert to the handling of the rise , right use , authority , necessity of such councells ; about all which , somewhat in due time towards satisfaction may be offered to those , who are not in bondage to names and traditions . nor shall i remark what hath been the mannagement of the things of god in all ages in those assemblies , many of which have been the staines and ulcers of christian religion : nor yet shall i say , with what little disadvantage to the religion of jesus christ , i suppose a losse of all the canons of all councells that ever were in the world , since the apostles daies , with their acts and contests ( considering what use is made of them ) might be undergone . nor yet shall i digresse to the usefulnesse of the assemblies of severall churches in their representatives , to consider and determine about things of common concernment to them , with their tendencie to the preservation of that communion , which ought to be amongst them ; but as to the present instance only offer 1. that such generall councells , being things purely extraordinary and occasionall , ( as is confessed ) cannot be an ordinary standing bond of union to the catholick church ; and if any one shall reply , that though in themselves , and in their own continuance they cannot be so , yet in their authority , lawes , and canons they may ! i must say , that besides the very many reasons i have to call into question the power of lawmaking for the whole society of christians in the world , in all the generall councells that have been , or possibly can be on the earth ; the dispute about the title of those assemblies , which pretend to this honour , which are to be admitted , which excluded , are so endlesse ; the rules of judging them so darke , lubricous , and uncertaine , framed to the interest of contenders on all hands ; the lawes of them , which de facto have gone under that title and name , so innumerable , burthensome , uncertain , and frivolus , in a great part so grossely contradictory to one another , that i cannot suppose that any man upon second thoughts , can abide in such an assertion ; if any shall , i must be bold to declare my affection to the doctrine of the gospell maintained in some of those assemblies , for some hundreds of years , and then to desire him to prove , that any generall councell , since the apostles fell asleep , hath been so convened , and mannaged , as to be enabled to claime that authority to it selfe , which is , or would be due to such an assembly , instituted according to the mind of christ . that it hath been of advantage to the truth of the gospell , that godly learned men , bishops of churches , have convened , and witnessed a good confession , in reference to the doctrine thereof , and declared their abhorrencie of the errors , that are contrary thereunto , is confessed . that any man , or men , is , are , or ever were entrusted by christ with authority so to convene them , as that thereupon , and by vertue thereof , they should be invested with a new authority , power , and jurisdiction , at such a convention , and thence should take upon them to make laws and canons , that should be ecclesiastically binding to any persons , or churches , as theirs , is not as yet to meattended with any convincing evidence of truth . and seeing at length it must be spoken , i shall doe it with submission to the thoughts of good men , that are any way acquainted with these things , and in sincerity therein commend my conscience to god ; that i doe not know any thing that is extant , bearing clearer witnesse to the sad degeneracy of christian religion in the profession thereof , nor more evidently discovering the efficacy of another spirit , than what was powred out by christ at his ascension , nor containing more hay and stubble , that is to be burned and consumed , then the stories of the acts and laws of the councells and synods , that have been in the world. 2. but to take them as they are , as to that alone wherein the first councells had any evidence of the presence of the holy ghost with them , namely , in the declaring the doctrine of the gospell ; it falls in with that which i shall give in for the bond of union unto the church in the sense pleaded about . 3. such an assembly arising cumulative out of particular churches , as it is evident that it doth , it cannot first and properly belong to the church generall , as such ; but it is only a means of communion between those particular churches as such , of whose representatives ( i mean vertually , for formally the persons convening for many years ceased to be so ) it doth consist . 4. there is nothing more ridiculous then to imagine a generall councell , that should represent the whole catholick church , or so much as all the particular churches that are in the world ; and let him that i● otherwise minded , that there hath been such an one , or that it is possible there should be such a one , prove by instance , that such there have been since the apostles times ; or by reason , that such may be in the present age , or be justly expected in those that are for to succeed , and we will , as we are able , crowne him for his discovery . 5. indeed i know not how any councell , that hath been in the world these 1300 years and somewhat upwards , could be said to represent the church in any sence , or any churches whatever ; their convention , as is known , hath been alwaies by imperiall or papall authority : the persons convened such , and only they , who as was pretended , and pleaded , had right of suffrage , with all necessary authority in such conventions , from the order , degree , and office , which personally they hold in their severall churches . indeed a pope or bishop sent his legate or proxie , to represent , or rather personate him , & his authority . but that any of them were sent , or delegated by the church wherein they did preside , is not so evident . i desire then , that some man more skilled in laws and common usages then my selfe , would informe me , on what account such a convention could come to be a church representative , or the persons of it to be representatives of any churches ; generall grounds of reason and equity i am perswaded , cannot be pleaded for it . the lords in parliament in this nation , who being summoned by regall authority , sate there in their own personall right , were never esteemed to represent the body of the people ; supposing indeed all church power ●●n any particular church , of whatever extract , or composition , to be solely vested in one single person ; a collection of those persons ( if instituted ) would bring together the authority of the whole . but yet this would not make that assembly to be a church representative , if you will allow the name of the church to any , but that single person : but for men , who have but a partiall power & authority in the church , and perhaps , separated from it , none at all , without any delegation from the churches to convene , and in their own authority to take upon them to represent those churches , is absolute presumption . these severall pretensions being excluded , let us see wherein the vnity of this church , namely , of the great society of men professing the gospell , and obedience to christ , according to it , throughout the world , doth consist ; this is summoned up by the apostle eph. 4. 5. one lord , one faith , one baptisme , it is the vnity of the doctrine of faith , which men professe , in subjection to one lord jesus christ , being initiated into that profession by baptisme ; i say , the saving doctrine of the gospell of salvation by jesus christ , and obedience through him to god as professed by them , is the bond of that union , whereby they are made one body , are distinguished from all other societies , have one head christ jesus , which as to profession they hold , and whilest they doe so , are of this body , in one professed hope of their calling . now that this vnion be preserved , it is required that all those grand and necessary truths of the gospell , without the knowledge whereof no man can be saved by jesus christ , be so farre believed , as to be outwardly and visibly professed in that variety of waies , wherein they are , or may be called out thereunto . there is a proportion of faith rom : 12. 6. an vnity of faith , and of knowledge of the sonne of god , eph 4. 13. a measure of saving truths , the explicite knowledge whereof in man , enjoying the use of reason within , and the means of grace without , is of indispensible necessary to salvation , without which it is impossible that any soule in an ordinary way should have communion with god in christ , having not light sufficient for converse with him , according to the tenour of the covenant of grace . these are commonly called fundamentalls , or first principles , which are justly argued by many to be clear , perspicuous , few , lying in an evident tendency to obedience . now look what truths are savingly to be believed , to render a man a member of the church catholick invisible ; that is , whatever is required in any one , unto such a receiving of jesus christ ; as that thereby he may have power given to him to become the son of god , the profession of those truths is required , to enstate a man in the unity of the church visible . 2. that no other internall principle of the mind , that hath an utter inconsistency with the reall beliefe of the truths necessary to be professed , be manifested by the professors . paul tells us of some , who , though they would be called christians , yet they so walked , as that they manifested themselves to be enemies of the crosse of christ , phil 3. 18. certainly those , who on one account , are open and manifest enemies of the crosse of christ , are not on any , members of his church : there is one lord , and one faith required , as well as one baptisme ▪ and a protestation contrary to evidence of fact , is in all law , null . let a man professe 10000 times , that he believes all the saving truths of the gospell , and by the course of a wicked and prophane conversation evidence to all , that he believes no one of them , shall his protestation be admitted ? shall he be accounted a servant in , and of my family , who will call me master , and come into my house ▪ only to doe me and mine a mischiefe , not doing any thing i require of him , but openly and professedly the contrary ? paul saies of such tit. 5. 15 , 16. they professe that they know god , yet in works they deny him , being abominable , disobedient , and unto every good work reprobate ; which though peculiarly spoken of the jewes , yet contains a generall rule , that mens profession of the knowledge of god , contradicted by a course of wickednesse , is not to be admitted , as a thing giving any priviledge whatever . 3. that no thing ; opinion , error , or false doctrine , everting or overthrowing any of the necessary saving truths professed , as above , be added in & with that profession ; or deliberately be professed also . this principle the apostle layes downe and proves gal. 5. 3 , 4. notwithstanding the profession of the gospell , he tells the galatians , that if they were bewitched to professe also the necessity of circumcision , and keeping of the law for justification , that christ or the profession of him would not profit them . on this account the ancients excluded many hereticks from the name of christians , so justin of the marcionites and others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ we are at length then arrived to this issue ; the belief & profession of all the necessary saving truths of the gospell , without the manifestation of an internall principle of the mind , inconsistent with the beliefe of them , or adding of other things in profession , that are destructive to the truths so professed , is the bond of the unity of the visible professing church of christ . where this is found in any man or number of men , though otherwise accompanied with many failings sinns and errors , the unity of the faith is by him or them so farre preserved , as that they are thereby rendred members of the visible church of christ , and are by him so esteemed . let us suppose a man by bare reading of the scriptures , brought to him by some providence of god ( as finding the bible in the high way ) and eviden●ing their authority by their own light , instructed in the knowledge of the truths of the gospell , who shall thereupon make profession of them amongst them , with whō he lives , although he be thousands of miles distant from any particular church , wherein the ordinances of christ are administred ; nor perhaps knows there is any such church in the world , much lesse hath ever heard of the pope of rome ( which is utterly impossible he should , supposing him instructed only by reading of the scriptures ) i aske whether this man , making open profession of christ according to the gospell , shall be esteemed a member of the visible church in the sence insisted on or no ? that this may not seem to be such a fiction of a case , as may involve in it any impossible supposition , which being granted will hold a doore open for other absurdities , i shall exemplifie it in its most materiall postulata by a story of unquestionable truth . elmacinus , who wrote the story of the saracens , being secretary to one of the caliphs at bagdat , informes us , that in the yeare 309 of their hegira , about the year 921 of our account , muctadinus the caliph of bagdat by the counsell of his wise men , commanded one huseinus the son of mansor to be crucified for certaine poems , whereof some verses are recited by the historian , and are thus rendred by erpenius laus ●i qui manifestavit humilitatem suam , celavit inter nos divinitatem suam permeantem donec coepit in creatura sua apparere sub specie edentis & bibentis ; jamque aspexit cum creatura ejus , sicuti supercilium obliquum respiciat supercilium . from which remnant of his worke it is easily to perceive , that the crime whereof he was accused , and for which he was condemned and crucifyed , was the confession of jesus christ the son of god. as he went to the crosse he added , says the same author , these that follow , compo●ur mens nihil plane habet in se iniquitatis , bibendum mihi dedi● simile ejus quod bibit secit hospitem in hospite . and so dyed constantly ( as it appears ) in the profession of the lord jesus . bagdat was a city built not long before by the saracens , wherein it is probable there were not at that time any christians abiding : adde now to this story what our saviour speakes luck . 12. 8. i say unto you whosoever shall confesse me before men , him shall the sonne of man confesse before the angells of god ; and considering the unlimitednesse of the expression as to any outward consideration , and tell me whether this man , or any other in the like condition , be not to be reckoned as a subject of christs visible kingdome ; a member of this church in the world . let us now recall to minde what we have in designe ; granting for our processe sake , that schisme is the breach of any unity instituted and appointed by christ ▪ in what sence soever it is spoken of , our inquiry is , whether we are guilty in any kind of such a breach , or the breach of such an vnity . this then now insisted on being the union of the church of christ , as visibly professing the word , according to his own minde , when i have laid down some generall foundations of what is to ensue , i shall consider whether we are guilty of the breach of this vnion and argue the severall pretensions of men against us , especially of the romanists on this account . 1. i confesse that this union of the generall visible church was once comprehensive of all the churches in the world ; the faith once delivered to the saints being received amongst them . from this unity it is taken also for granted , that a separation is made , and it continnes not as it was at the first institution of the churches of christ , though some small breaches were made upon it , immediately after their first planting . the papists say , as to the europaean churches wherein their and our concernment principally lyes ) this breach was made in the dayes of our forefathers ; by their departure from the common faith in those ages , though begunne by a few some ages before . we are otherwise minded , and affirme , that this secession was made by them , and their predecessors in apostacy , in severall generations by severall degrees ; which we manifest , by comparing the present profession and worship , with that in each kind , which we know was at first embraced , because we find it instituted . at once then , we say this schisme lyes at their doors , who not only have deviated from the common faith themselves , but do also actually cause , and attempt to destroy temporally and eternally all that will not joyne with them therein . for as the mystery of iniquity began to worke in the apostles dayes ; so we have a testimony beyond exception in the complaint of those that lived in them , that not long after , the operation of it became more effectuall , and the infection of it to be more diffused in the church : this is that of hegesyppus in eusebius eccles . hist . lib. 3. cap. 26. who affirmes that the church remained a virgin ( whilst the apostles lived ) pure and uncorrupted , but when that sacred society had ended it's pilgrimage , and the generation that heard and received the word from them were fallen asleep , many false doctrines were preached and divulged therein . i know who hath endeavoured to elude the sence of this complaint , as though it concerned not any thing in the church , but the despisers and persecutors of it , the gnosticks . but yet i know also , that no man would so doe but such a one , as hath a just confidence of his own ability to make passable at least , any thing that he shall venture to say or utter . for why should that be referred by hegesyppus to the ages after the apostles and their hearers were dead , with an exception against its being so in their days ; when if the person thus expounding this testimony may be credited , the gnosticks were never more busie nor prevalent then in that time which alone is excepted from the evill here spoken of . nor can i understand how the opposition and persecution of the church should be insinuated to be the deflowring and violating of its chastity , which is commonly a great purifying of it ; so that speaking of that broaching and preaching of errors , which was not in the apostles times , nor in the time of their hearers , the chiefest time of the rage & madnes of the gnosticks ; such as spotted the pure & incorupted virginity of the church , which nothing can attaine unto that is forraigne unto it , & that which gave originall unto sedition in the church : i am of the mind , & so i conceive was eusebius that recited those words , that the good man intended corruptions in the church , not out of it , nor oppositions to it . the processe made in after ages , in a deviation from the unity of the faith , till it arrived to that height wherein it is now stated in the papall apostacy , hath been the work of others to declare ; therein then i statet the rise and progresse of the present schisme ( if it may be so called ) of the visible church . 2. as to our concernment in this businesse , they that will make good a charge against us , that we are departed from the vnity of the church catholick it is incumbent on them to evidence , that we either doe not believe and make profession of all the truths of the gospell indispensably necessary to be known , that a man may have a communion with god in christ and be saved . or 2. that doing so , in the course of our lives we manifest and declare a principle , that is utterly inconsistent with the belief of those truths , which outwardly we professe ; or 3. that we adde unto them , in opinion or worship , that , or those things , which are in very deed destructive of them ; or doe any way render them insufficient to be saving unto us . if neither of these three can be proved against a man , he may justly claime the priviledge of being a member of the visible church of christ in the world , though he never in all his life be a member of a particular church : which yet if he have fitting opportunity and advantage for it , is his duty to be . and thus much be spoken as to the state and condition of the visible catholick church ! and in this sence we grant it to be , and the unity thereof . in the late practice of men , that expression of the catholick church hath been an individuum vagum , few knowing what to make of it : a cothurnus that every one accommodated at pleasure to his own principles and pretensions . i have no otherwise described it , then did irenaeus of old ; said he , judicabit omnes eos , qui sunt extra veritatem , id est , extra ecclesiam . lib 4. cap. 62. and on the same account , is a particular church sometimes called by some , the catholick . quandoque ego remigius episcopus de hâc luce transiero , tu mihi haeres esto , sancta & venerabilis ecclesia catholica urbis remorum . flodoardus lib. 1. in the sence insisted on , was it so frequently described by the ancients . so again irenaeus ; etsi in mundo loquelae dissimiles sunt , sed tamen virtus traditionis una & eadem est , & neque hae , quae in germania sunt ●undatae , ecclesiae aliter credunt , aut aliter tradunt , neque hae , quae in hibernis sunt , neque hae quae in celtis , neque hae , quae in oriente , neque hae quae in aegypto , neque hae quae in lybia , neque hae quae in medio mundi constitutae : sed sicut sol creatura dei in universo mundo unus & idem est , si● & lumen & praedicatio veritatis ubique lucet . lib. 1. cap. 3. to the same purpose jus●in martyr , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ dialog . cum tryphone . the generality of all sorts of men worshipping god in jesus christ , is the church we speak of : whose extent in his daies tertullian thus related : in quem alium crediderunt gentes universae , nisi in ipsum , qui jam venit ? cui enim alii , gentes crediderunt , parthi , medi , & elamitae , & qui habitant mesopotamiam , armeniam , phrygiam , & immorantes aegyptum & regionem africae , quae est trans cyrenem romani , & incolae tunt , & in hierusalem iudei & gentes caeterae , ut jam getulonum varietates & maurorum nulli fines hispanarum omnes termini , & galliarum diversae nationes & britanorum inaccessa loca romanis , christo vero subdita & sarmatarum & dacorum & germanorum & seytharum & abditarum multarum gentium & provinciarum & ins●larum multarum nobis ignotarum , & quae enumerare non possumus , in quibus omnibus locis christi nomen , qui jam venit , regna● ad iudaeos . some have sayd , and doe yet say , that the church in this sence , is a visible , organicall , politicall body . that its visible is confessed , both its matter and farme bespeakes visibility , as an unseparable adjunct of its subsisting . that it is a body also in the generall sence wherein that word is used , or a society of men embodyed by the profession of the same faith , is also granted . organicall , in this businesse , is an ambiguous terme . the use of it is plainly metaphoricall taken from the members , instruments and organs of a naturall body . because paul hath said that in one body there are many members , as eyes , feet , hands , yet the body is but one ; so is the church : it hath been usually said , that the church is an organicall body : what church paul speakes of in that place is not evident : but what he alludes unto , is . the difference he speaks of , in the individuall persons of the church , is not in respect of office , power , and authority ; but gifts or graces , and usefullnesse on that account ; such an organical body we confesse the church catholick visible to be ; in it are persons indued with varietie of gifts and graces for the benefit and ornament of the whole . an organicall politicall body , is a thing of another nature ; a politick body or common-wealth , is a society of a certain portion of mankind , united under some forme of rule , or government , whose supreame and subordinate administration is committed to severall persons , according to the tenor of such laws and customes as that society hath , or doth consent unto . this also is said to be organicall on a metaphoricall account , because the officers and members that are in it , and over it , hold proportion to the more noble parts of the body . kings are said to be heads , councellors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : to the constitution of such a common-wealth dist●●ctly , as such , it is required that the whole hath the same laws ; but not that only . two nations most distinct and different , on the account of other ends and interests , may yet have the same individuall laws and customes , for the distribution of justice , and preservation of peace among themselves . an entire forme of regiment and government peculiar thereunto , is required for the constitution of a distinct politicall body . in this sence we denie the church whereof we speake , to be an organicall , politicall body ▪ as not having indeed any of the requisites thereunto . not one law of order ? the same individuall morall law , or law for morall duties it hath , but a law given to the whole , as such , for order , polity , rule , it hath not ; all the members of it are obliged to the same law of order and polity in their severall societies ; but the whole , as such hath no such law ▪ it hath no such head or governour as such : nor will it suffice ▪ to say , that christ is its head : for if as a visible politicall body ●t hath a politicall head , that head also must be visible . the commonweal of the jews was a politicall body ; of this god was the head and king ; hence their historian saith their government was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and when they would choose a king , god said they rejected him , who was their politicall head ; to whom a sickle was paid yearly as tribute , called the sickle of the sanctuary . now they rejected him , not by asking a king , simply , but a king after the manner of the nations ; yet that it might be a visible politicall body , it required a visible supreame magistrate to the whole●… ; which when there was none , all polity was dissolved amongst them . judg. 21. christ is the head of every particular church , its lawgiver and ruler : but yet to make a church a visible , organicall , politicall body , it 's required that it hath visible governours & rulers , and of the whole ; nor can it be said , that it is a politicall body , that hath a supreame government & order in it ; as it is made up and constituted of particular churches ; and that in the representatives convened doth the supream visible power of it consist ; for such a convention in the judgement of all , ought to be extraordinary only ; in ours is utterly impossible , and de facto was not among the churches for 300 years , yea never : besides , the visible catholick church is not made up of particular churches as such ; for if so , then no man can be member of it , but by vertue of his being a member of some visible church , which is false ; profession of the truth ▪ as before stated , is the formall reason and cause of any persons relation to the church visible , which he hath thereby , whether he belong to any particular church or no. let it be evidenced , that the universall church whereof we speake , hath any law or rule of order and government , as such , given unto it ; or that it is in possibility as such , to put any such law or rule into execution , that it hath any homogeneous ruler or rulers that have the care of the administration of the rule and government of the whole , as such , committed to him or them by jesus christ ; that as it hath the same common spirituall , and known orders and interests , and the same specificall ecclesiasticall rule given to all its members , so it hath the same politicall interest , order and conversation , as such , or that it hath any one cause constitutive of a politicall body , whereby it is such , or hath at all the forme of an instituted church , or is capable of any such forme , and they that doe so , shall be farther attended to . chap. vi. romanists charge of schisme on the account of separation from the church catholick proposed to consideration . the importance of this plea on both sides . the summe of their charge . the church of rome not the church catholick , not a church in any sence . of antichrist in the temple . the catholick church how intrusted with interpretation of scripture . of intepretation of scripture by tradition . the interest of the romane church herein discharged . all necessary truths believed by protestants ▪ no contrary principle by them manifested . profane persons no members of the church catholick of the late romane proselyts . of the donatists . their businesse reported and case stated . the present state of things unsuited to those of old . apostacy from the vnity of the church catholick charged on the romanists . their claime to be that church sanguinary : false . their plea to this purpose considered . the blasphemous mannagement of their plea by some of late . the whole dissolved . their inferences on their plea practically prodigious . their apostacy proved by instances . their grand argument in this cause proposed : answered . consequences of denying the roman church , to be a church of christ , weighed . let us see now what as to conscience , can be charged on us , ( protestants i meane ) who are all concerned herein , as to the breach of this union . the papists are the persons that undertake to mannage this charge against us . to lay aside the old plea subesse romano pontifici ; and all those ●eats , wherewith they jugled , when the whole world sa●e in darknesse , which they doe not now use at the entrance of their charge . the summe of what they insist upon firstly , is the catholick church is intrusted with the interpretation of the scriptures , and declaration of the truths therein contained , which being by it so declared , the not receiving of them implicitely , or explicitely , that is the disbelieving of them as so proposed and declared , cuts off any man from being a member of the church ; christ himselfe having said , that he that heares not the church is to be as an heathen man or publican ; which church they are , that is certaine . it is all one then what we believe , or doe not believe , seeing that we believe not all that the catholick church proposeth to be believed , and what we doe believe , we believe not on ha● account . ans . their insisting on this plea so much as they doe , is sufficient to evince their despair of making good by instance our faylure in respect of the way and principles by which the unity of the visible church may be lost or broken . faile they in this , they are gone ; and if they carrie this plea , we are all at their disposall . the summe of it is , the catholick church is intrusted with sole power of delivering what is truth , and what is necessary to be believed . this catholick church is the church of rome ; that is , the pope , or what else may in any juncture of time serve their interest . but as it is known 1. we deny their church , as it is stiled , to be the catholick church , or as such , any part of it , as particular churches are called or esteemed . so that of all men in the world , they are least concerned in this assertion . nay i shall goe farther ; suppose all the members of the roman church to be found in the faith , as to all necessary : truths , and no way to prejudice the advantages and priviledges , which acc●●e to them by the profession thereof , whereby the severall individualls of it , would be true members of the catholick church , yet i should not only deny it to be the catholick church , but also abideing in its present order and constitution , being that which by themselves it is supposed to be , to be any particular church of christ at all ; as wanting many things necessary to constitute them so , and having many things destructive utterly to the very essence and being of that order , that christ hath appointed in his churches . the best plea that i know for their church state , is , that antichrist sits in the temple of god. now although we might justly omit the examination of this pretence , untill those , who are concerned in it , will professedly owne it , as their plea ; yet as it lyes in our way , in the thoughts of some , i say to it , that i am not so certaine , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifies to sit in the temple of god ; seeing a learned man long agoe thought it rather to be a setting up against the temple of god. aug. de civitate dei lib. 10. cap. 59. but grant the sence of the expression to be , as it 's usually received , it imports no more , but that the man of sinne shall set up his power against god , in the midst of them , who by their outward visible profession have right to be called his temple , which intitles him , and his copartners in apostacy , to the name of the church ; as much as changing of mony , and selling of cattle , were ordinances of god under the old temple , when by some mens practising of them in it , it was made a den of theeves . 2. though as to the plea of them , and their interest , with whom we have to do , we have nothing requiring our judgements in the case , yet ex abundanti , we adde , that we deny , that by the will and appointment of jesus christ , the catholick church visible is in any sence intrusted with such an interpretation of scripture , as that her declaration of truth should be the measure of what should be believed ; or that , as such , it is intrusted with any power of that nature at all , or is inabled to propose a rule of faith to be received , as so proposed , to the most contemptible individuall in the world ; or that it is possible that any voice of it should be heard or understood , but only this , i believe the necessary saving truths contained in the scripture ; or that it can be consulted with all , or is , as such , intrusted with any power , authority , or jurisdiction ; nor shall we ever consent , that the office , and authority of the scriptures , be actually taken from it , on any pretence . as to that of our saviour , of telling the church ; it is so evidently spoken of a particular church , that may immediately be consulted in case of difference between brethren ; and does so no way relate to the businesse in hand , that i shall not trouble the reader with a debate of it . but doe we not receive the scripture it selfe upon the authority of the church ? i say if we did so , yet this concernes not rome , which we account no church at all . that we have received the scripture from the church of rome at first , that is , so much as the book its selfe , is an intollerable figment . but it is worse , to say , that we receive and own their authority , from the authority of any church , or all the churches in the world. it is the expression of our learned whitaker , qui scriptur●●● non credit esse divinam , nisi propter ecclesiae vocem , christianus non est . to deny , that the scripture hath immediate force and efficacy to evince its own authority , is plainly to deny them : on that account being brought unto us , by the providence of god , ( wherein i comprize all subservient helps of humane testimony ) we receive them , and on no other . but is not the scripture to be interpreted according to the tradition of the catholick church , and are not those interpretations so made to be received ? i say among all the figments that these latter ages have invented ; i shall adde , amongst the true stories of lucian , there is not one more remote from truth then this assertion ; that all , that any one text of scripture may be interpreted according to the universall tradition of the catholick church , and be made appeare so to be , any farther then that in generall the catholick church hath not believed any such sence to be in any portion of scripture , which to receive , were destructive of salvation . and therefore the romanists tell us , that the present church ( that is theirs ) is the keeper and interpreter of these traditions : or rather , that its power , authority , and infability , being the same that it hath been in former ages , what it determines , is to be received to be the tradition of the catholick church ; for the triall whereof , whether it be so or no , there is no rule but its own determination : which if they can perswade us to acquiesce in , i shall grant , that they have acquired such an absolute dominion over vs , and our faith , that it is fit , that we should be soul and body at their disposall . it being then the work of the scripture , to propose the saving truths of christ , ( the beliefe and profession whereof , are necessary to make a man a member of the church ) so as to make them of indispensable necessity to be received ; if they can from them convince us , that we doe not believe and professe all & every one of the truths or articles of faith , so necessary as expressed , we shall fall down under the authority of such conviction : if not , we professe our consciences to be no more concerned in the authority of their church , then we judge their church to be in the priviledges of the church catholick . but , 2. it may be we are chargeable with manifesting some principles of prophanenesse , wherewith the beliefe of the truth , we professe , hath an absolute inconsistency ; for those , who are liable and obnoxious to this charge , i say , let them plead for themselves . for let them professe what they will , and cry out 10000 times , that they are christians , i shall never acknowledge them for others then visible enemies of the crosse , kingdome , and church of christ . traytors and rebells are not de facto subjects of that king or ruler , in reference to whom , they are so . of some , who said they were jewes , christ said they lyed , and were not , but the synagogue of satan , rev. 2 9. though such as these say they are christians , i will be bold to say , they lye , they are not , but slaves of sathan . though they live within the pale ( as they call it ) of the church , ( the catholick church being an inclosure as to profession , not place , ) yet they are not within it , nor of it , any more then a jew , or mahumetan within the same precinct : suppose they have been baptized , yet if their belly be their god , and their lives dedicated to satan , all the advantage they have thereby , is , that they are apostates and renegadoes . that we have added any thing of our owne , making profession of any thing in religion absolutely destructive to the fundamentalls we professe , i know not that we are accused , seeing our crime is asserted to consist in detracting not adding . now unlesse we are convinced of failing on one of these three accounts , we shall not at all question , but that we abide in the unity of the visible catholick church . it is the common cry of the romanists that we are schismaticks . why so ? because we have separated our selves from the communion of the catholick church : what this catholick is , and how little they are concerned in it , hath been declared how much they have prevailed themselves with ignorant soules by this plea , we know ▪ nor was any other successe to be expected in respect of many , whom they have wonne over to themselves , who being persons ignorant of the righteousnesse of god , and the power of the faith , they have professed , not having had experience of communion with the lord jesus , under the conduct of them , have been upon every provocation and temptation , a ready prey to deceivers . take a little view of their late proselyts , and it will quickly appeare what little cause they have to boast in them . with some by the craft and folly of some relations they are admitted to treat , when they are drawing to their dissolution . these for the most part having been persons of dissolute and profligate lives , never having tasted the power of any religion , whatever they have professed , in their weakenesse , and disturbed dying thoughts , may be apt to receive any impression , that with confidence and violence is imposed upon them . besides , it is a farre easier proposall to be reconciled to the church of rome , and so by purgatorie to get to heaven , then to be told of regeneration , repentance , faith , and the covenant of grace , things of difficulty to such poor creatures . others that have been cast down from their hopes and expectations ; or out from their enjoyments by the late revolution in these nations ; have by their discontent , or necessity , made themselves an easie prey to their zeale . what hath been the residue of thir proselytes ? what one who hath ever manifested himselfe to share in the power of our religion , or was not prepared by principles of superstition almost as deep as their own , have they prevailed on ? but i shall not farther insist on these things . to returne our communion with the visible catholick church is in the unity of the faith only . the breach of this union , and therein a relinquishment of the communion of the church , lyes in a relinquishment of , or some opposition to , some or all of the saving necessary truths of the gospell . now this is not schisme , but heresie or apostacy ; or it is done by an open profligatenesse of life : so that indeed this charge is nothing at all to the purpose in hand : though through grace in a confidence of our own innocency we are willing to debate the guilt of the crime under any name or title whatever . unto what hath been spoken , i shall only adde the removeall of some common objections , with a recharge on them , with whom principally we have as yet had to do , & come to the last thing proposed . the case of some of old , who were charged with schisme for separating from the catholick church on an account wholy and cleerly distinct from that of a departure from the faith , is an instance of the judgement of antiquity lying in an opposition to the notion of departure from the church now delivered . doth not augustine , doe not the rest of his orthodox contemporaries , charge the donatists with schisme , because they departed from the catholick church ? and doth not the charge rise up with equall efficacy against you as them ? at least doth it not give you the nature of schisme in another sence then is by you granted . the reader knows sufficiently , if he hath at al taken notice of these things , whereto find this cloud scattered , without the least annoyance or detriment to the protestant cause , or of any concerned in that name , however by lesser differences diversified among themselves . i shall not repeate what by others hath been at large insisted on . in briefe , put the whole church of god into that condition of libertie and soundnesse of doctrine , which it was in when the great uproare was made by the donatists , and we shall be concerned to give in our judgements concerning them . to presse an example of former dayes , as binding unto duty , or convincing of evill , in respect of any now , without stating the whole substratum of the businesse , and compleat cause , as it was in the dayes and seasons , wherein the example was given , we judge it not equall . yet although none can with ingenuity presse me with the crime they were guilty of , unlesse they can prove themselves to be instated in the very same condition , as they were against whom that crime was committed , which i am fully assured none in the world can ; the communion of the catholick church then pleaded for , being in the judgement of all an effect of mens free liberty , and choice , now pressed as an issue of the tyranny of some few ; yet i shall freely deliver my thoughts concerning the donatists , which will be comprehensive also of those other , that suffer with them in former and after ages , under the same imputation . 1. then i am perswaded , that in the matter of fact , the donatists were some of them deceived , and others of them did deceive , in charging caecilianus to be ordained by traditores : which they made the maine ground of their separation , however they took in other things , ( as is usuall ) into their defence afterward . whether any of themselves were ordained by such persons , as they are recharged , i know not . 2. on supposition that he was so , and they that ordained him were known to him to have been so ; yet he being not guilty of the crime , renouncing communion with them therein , and themselves repenting of their sinne , as did peter , whose sinne exceeded theirs , this was no just cause of casting him out of communion , he walking & acting in all other things , suitable to principles by themselves acknowledged . 3. that on supposition they had just cause hereupon to renounce the communion of caecilianus , which according to the principles of those days , retained by themselves was most false ; yet they had no ground of separating from the church of carthage , where were many elders not obnoxious to that charge . indeed to raise a jealousy of a fault in any man , which is denyed by him , which we are not able to prove , which if it were proved , were of little or no importance , and on pretence thereof to separate from all , who will not believe what we surmise , is a wild and unchristian course of proceeding . 4. yet grant farther , that men of tender consciences , regulated by the principle then generally received , might be startled at the cōmunion of that church , wherein caecilianus did preside ; yet nothing but the height of madnesse , pride , and corrupt fleshly interest , could make men declare hostility against all the churches of christ in the world , who would communicate with , or did not condemne that church , which was to regulate all the churches in the world by their own fancy , and imagination . 5. though men out of such pride and folly might judge all the residue of christians to be faulty and guilty in this particular of not condemning and separating from the church of carthage ; yet to proceed to cast them out from the very name of christians , and so disanull their priviledges , and ordinances , that they had been made partakers of , as manifestly they did , by rebaptizing all that entered into their communion , was such unparalleld pharisaisme , and tyranny , as was wholy to be condemned , and untollerable . 6. the divisions , outrages , and enthusiasticall furies and riots that befell them , or they fell into , in their way , werein my judgement tokens of the hand of god against them : so that upon the whole matter , their undertaking , and enterprise , was utterly undue , and unlawfull . i shall farther adde , as to the mannagement of the cause by their adversaries , that there is in these writings , especially those of austin ( for the most part ) as sweet and gratious spirit , breathing , full of zeale for the glory of god , peace , love , union among christians ; and as to the issue of the cause under debate , it is evident , that they did sufficiently foyle their adversaries on principles then generally confessed , and acknowledged on all hands , though some of them seem to have been considering , learned , and dexterous men . how little we are at this day , in any contests that are mannaged amongst us , about the things of god , concerned in those differences of theirs , these few considerations will evince ; yet notwithstanding all this , i must take liberty to professe , that although the fathers justly charged the donatists with disclaiming of all the churches of christ , as a thing wicked and unjust , yet many of the principles whereon they did it , were such , as i cannot assent unto . yea i shall say , that though austin was sufficiently cleare in the nature of the invisible church catholick , yet his frequent confounding it with a mistaken notion of the visible generall church , hath given no small occasion of stumbling , and sundry unhappy intanglements to diverse in after ages . his own book de unitats ecclesiae , which contains the summe and substance of what he had written elsewhere , or disputed against the donatists , would afford me instances enough to make good my assertion , were it now under consideration or proofe . being then thus come off from this part of our charge and accusation of schisme , for the relinquishment of the catholick visible church , which as we have not done , so to doe , is not schisme , but a sin of another nature and importance ; according to the method proposed , a recharge on the romanists in reference to their present condition , and its unsuitablenesse to the vnity of the church , evinced , must briefly ensue . their claime is known to be no lesse , then that they are this catholick church , out of whose communion there is no salvation : ( as the donatists was of old ) that also the union of this church consists in its subjection to its head the pope , and worshipping of god according to his appointment , in and with his severall qualifications and attendencies . now this claime of theirs to our apprehension , and consciences , is 1. cruell , and sanguinary ; condemning millions to hell , that invocate and call on the name of the lord jesus christ , believing all things that are written in the old and new testaments , for no other cause in the world , but because they are not convinced , that it is their duty to give up reason , faith , soule , and all to him , and his disposall , whom they have not only unconquerable presumptions against , as an evill and wicked person ; but are also resolved ▪ and fully perswaded in their consciences , that he is an enemy to their deare lord jesus christ , out of love to whom , they cannot beare him . especially will this appeare to be so , if we consider their farther improvement of this principle , to the killing hanging , torturing to death , burning of all that they are able , who are in the condition before mentioned . this upon the matter is the great principle of their religion . all persons that will not be subject ( at least in spirituall things ) to the pope , are to be hanged or burned in this world , or by other means destroyed , and damned for ever hereafter . this is the substance of the gospell they preach , the centre wherein all the lines of their writings doe meet ; and to this must the holy , pure word of god be wrested to give countenance . blessed be the god of our salvation , who as he never gave mercilesse men power over the souls , and eternall condition of his saints ; so he hath began to work a deliverance of the outward condition of his people , from their rage and cruelty ; which in his good time he will perfect in their irrecoverable ruine . in the mean time , i say , the guilt of the blood of millions of innocent persons , yea saints of god , lyes at their doors . and although thing● are so stated in this age , that in some nations they have left none to kill ; in others are restrained , that they can kill no more ; yet reteining the same principles with their forefathers , and justifying them in their paths of blood , i look upon them all as guilty of murther , and so not to have eternall life abiding in them ; being as cain of that wicked one , who slew his brother . i speak not of individualls , but of those in generall , that constitute their governing church . 2. most false , and such as nothing but either judiciary hardnesse from god , sending men strong delusions , that they might believe a lye ; or the dominion of cursed lusts , pride , ambition , covetousnesse , desire of rule , can lye at the bottome of ▪ for , 1. it is false , that the union of the catholick church , in the notion now under consideration , consists in subjection to any officer or officers ; or that it hath any peculiar forme , constituting one church in relation to them , or in joynt participation of the same individuall ordinances whatever , by all the members of it ; or that any such onenesse is at all possible ; or any unity whatever , but that of the faith , which by it is believed , and of the truth professed . 2. it is most ridiculous , that they are this catholick church , or that their communion is comprehensive of it in its latitude . he must be blind , uncharitable , a judge of what he cannot see ▪ or know , who can once entertaine a thought of any such thing . let us run a little over the foundations of this assertion . first , peter was the prince of the apostles . it is denied ; arguments lye clear against it . the gospell , the acts of the apostles , all confute it . the expresse testimony of paul lyes against it ; our saviour denies it , that it was so , gives order that it should not be so . the name and thing is forreigne to the times of the apostles . it was a ministry , not a principality they had committed to them ; therein they were all equall . it is from that spirit , whence they enquired after a kingdome and dominion , before they had received the spirit of the gospell , as it was dispensed after christs ascension , that such assertions are now insisted on . but let that be supposed , what is next ? he had an vniversall monarchicall jurisdiction committed to him over all christians . for christ said , tues petrus , tibi dabo claves , & pasce oves meas . but these termes are barbarous to the scripture ; monarchy is not the english of vos autem non sic . jurisdiction is a name of a right , for the exercise of civill power . christ hath left no such thing as jurisdiction , in the sence wherein it is now used , to peter or his church . men do but make sports , and expose themselves to the contempt of considering persons , who talke of the institution of our lord , in the languages of the last ages ; or expressions suitable to what was in practice in them . he that shall compare the fraternall church admonition and censures of the primitive institution , with the courts , powers , and jurisdictions , set up in pretence and colour of them in after ages , will admire at the likenesse and correspondency of the one with the other . the administration of ecclesiasticall ju●isdiction in the papacy , and under the prelacy here in england , had no more relation to any institution of christ , ( unlesse it be , that it effectually excluded the exercise of his institutions , ) then other civill courts of justice among christians have . peter had the power and authority of an apostle in and over the churches of christ , to ●each , to instruct them , to ordaine elders in them by their consent wherever he came : so had the rest of the apostles . but as to this monarchie of peters over the rest of the apostles , let them shew what authority he ever exercised over them , while he and they lived together ; we read that he was once reproved by one of them , not that he ever reproved the meanest of them . if christ made the grant of preheminencie to him , when he said tu es petrus , why did the apostles enquire afterwards , who among them should be greatest ? and why did not our saviour on that dispute , plainly satisfy them , that peter was to be chiefe ? but chose rather to so determine the question , as to evince them of the vanity of any such enquiry ? and yet the determination of it , is that , that lyes at the bottome of the papall monarchy . and why doth paul say , that he was in nothing inferiour to any of the apostles , when , ( if these gent : say true ) he was in many things inferiour to peter ? what speciall place hath the name of peter , in the foundation of the new jerusalem , rev. 21. 14. ? what exaltation hath his throne among the twelve , whereon the apostles judge the world , and house of israel , mat. 19. 28. what eminencie of commission for teaching all nations , or for , giving sinnes ? what had his keys more then those of the rest of the apostles , joh. 20. 3. ? what was peculiar in that triple command of feeding the sheep of christ , but his triple deniall , that preceded ? is an injunction for the performance of duty , a grant of new authority ? but that we may make some progresse , suppose this also ; why , this power , priviledge , and jurisdiction of peter , was to be transferred to his successors , when the power of all the other apostles , as such , dyed with them . but what pretence , or colour of it , is there for this assertion ? what one title or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is there in the whole book of god , giving the least countenance to this imagination ? what distinction between peter and the rest of the apostles on this account , is once made , or in any kind insinuated ? certainly this was a thing of great importance to the churches , to have been acquainted with it , when paul so sadly tells the church , that after his departure grievous wolves would spoyle the flock , and many among themselves would arise , speaking perverse things , to draw disciples after them ; why did he not give them the least direction , to make their addresse to him , that should succeed peter in his power and office , for reliefe and redresse ? strange ! that it should be of necessity to salvation , to be subject to him , in whom this power of peter was to be continued , that he was to be one , in whom the saints were to be consummated ; that in relation to him , the unity of the catholick church to be preserved under paine of damnation , should consist ; and yet not a word spoken of him in the whole word of god. but they say , peter had not only an apostolicall power with the rest of the apostles ; but also an ordinary power that was to be continued in the church . but the scripture being confessedly silent of any such thing , let us heare what proof is tendered for the establishment of this uncouth assertion . herein then thus they proceed . it will be confessed that jesus christ ordained his church wisely , according to his infinite wisedome , which he exercised about his body ; now to this wisdome of his , for the prevention of innumerable evils , it is agreeable , that he should appoint some one person with that power of declaring truth , and of jurisdiction to enforce the receiving of it , which we plead for . for this was in peter , as is proved from the texts of scripture before mentioned , therefore it is continued in them , that succeed him . and here lyes the great stresse of their cause ; that to prevent evills and inconveniences , it became the wisedome of jesus christ to appoint a person , with all that authority , power & infallibility , to continue in his church to the end of the world . and this plea they mannage variously with much sophistry , rhetorick and testimonies of antiquity . but suppose all this should be granted ; yet i am full well assured , that they can never bring it home to their concernment by any argument , but only the actuall claime of the pope wherein he stands singly now in the world : which that it is satisfactory to make it good de fide , that he is so , will not easily be granted . the truth is , of all the attempts they make against the lord jesus christ , this is one of the greatest , wherein they will assert , that it became his wisedome to doe , which by no meanes they can prove that he hath done : which is plainly to tell us , what in their judgement he ought to have done , though he hath not ; & that therefore it is incumbent on them to supply what he hath been defective in . had he taken the care he should of them ; and their master , that he and they might have ruled and reviled over , and in the house of god , he would have appointed things as now they are , which they affirme to have become his wisedome . he was a king that once cryed , si deo in creatione adfuissem , mundum melius ordinassem . but every fryar or monck can say of jesus christ , had they been present at his framing the world to come , ( whereof we speake ) they would have told him what had become his wisedome to do . our blessed lord hath left sufficient provision against all future emergencies & inconveniences in his word & spirit given & promised to his saints . and the one remedie which these men have found out with the contempt and blaspemy of him and them , hath proved worse then all the other evills and diseases , for whose prevention he made provision ; which he hath done also for that remedy of theirs , but that some are hardned through the righteous judgement of god and deceitfulnesse of sin . the mannagement of this plea by some of late is very considerable ; say they quia non de verbis solum scripturae , sed etiā de sensu plurima cōtroversia est , si ecclesiae interpretatio non est cert●… intelligendi norma , ecquis erit istiusmodi controversiae judex ? sensū enim suū pro sua virili quisque defendet : quod si in exploranda verbi dei intelligentia nullus est certus judex , audemus dicere nullam rempublicam fuisse stultius constitutam . sin autem apostoli tradiderunt eccclesiis verbum dei sine intelligentia verbi dei , quomodo praedicarunt evangelium omni creaturae ? quomodo decuerunt omnes gentes servare quaecunque illis fuerunt a christo commendata . non est puerorum aut psittaeorum praedicatio , qui sine mente dant , accipiuntque sonum . walemburg . con. 4. num. 26. it is well , that at length these men speak out plainly . if the pope be not a visible supreame judge in & over the church , christ hath in the constitution of his church , dealt more foolishly , then ever any did in the constitution of a commonwealth . if he have not an infallible power of determining the sense of the scriptures , the scripture is but an empty , insignificant word , like the speech of parats or popyniaies . though christ hath by his apostles given the scriptures , to make the man of god wise unto salvation , and promised his spirit unto them that believe , by whose assistance the scripture gives out it s own sence to them , yet all is folly , if the pope be not supreame and infallible . the lord rebuke them , who thus boldly blaspheame his word and wisdome . but let us proceed . this peter thus invested in power , that was to be traduced to others , went to rome , and preached the gospell there . it is most certain , nor will themselves deny it , that if this be not so , and believed , their whole fabrick will fall to the ground . but can this be necessary for all sorts of christians and every individuall of men among them , to believe , when there is not the least insinuation of any such thing in the scripture : certainly , though it be only a matter of fact , yet being of such huge importance and consequence ; and such a doctrine of absolute , & indispensable necessity to be believed , as is pretended , depending upon it , if it were true , and true in reference to such an end and purpose , as is pleaded , it would not have been passed over in silence ; there , where so many things of inconceivable lesse concernment to the church of god ( though all in their respective degrees tending to edification are recorded . as to what is recorded in story ; the order and series of things , with the discovery afforded us of peters course , & place of abode in scripture , doe prevaile with me , to think stedfastly , that he was never there , against the selfe contradicting testimonies of some few , who took up vulgar reports then , when the mystery of iniquity had so farre ●p●rated at least , that it was judged meet , that the chiefe of the apostles should have lived in the chiefe city of the world. but that we may proceed , grant this also , that peter was at rome , which they shall never be able to prove : and that he did preach the gospell there ; yet so he did , by their own confession , at other places , making his residence at antioch for some years ; what will this availe , towards the setling of the matter under consideration ? there christ appointed him to fixe his chaire , and make that church , the place of his residence : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . of his meeting simon magus at rome , who in all probability was never there , ( for seme sangus was not simon magus , nor sanctus , nor deus magnus ) of the conquest made of him , and his divells , of his being instructed of christ not to goe from rome , but tarry there , and suffer , some thing may be said from old legends . but of his chaire , and fixing of it at rome , of his confinement , as it were , to that place , in direct opposition to the tenour of his apostolicall commission , who first told the story i know not ; but this i know , they will one day be ashamed of their chaire , thrones , and sees , and jurisdictions , wherein they now so please themselves . but what is next to this ? the bishop of rome succeeds peter in all that power , jurisdiction , infallibility , with whatsoever else was fancied before in him , as the ordinary lord of the church , and therefore the roman church is the catholick ; quod erat demonstrandum now though this inference will no way follow upon these principles , though they should all be supposed to be true , whereof not one is so much as probable ; and though this last assertion be vaine and ridiculous , nothing at all being pleaded to ground this succession ; no institution of christ , no act of any councell of the church ; no will nor testament of peter ; but only it is so fallen out , as the world was composed of a casuall concurrence of atomes : yet seeing they will have it so , i desire a little farther information in one thing , that yet remains ; and that is this , the charter , patents , and grant of all this power , & right of succession unto peter , in all the advantages , priviledges and jurisdiction , before mentioned , being wholly in their own keeping , whereof i never saw letter or title , nor ever conversed with any one , no not of themselves , that did ; i would be gladly informed , whether this grant be made to him absolutely , without any manner of condition whatever ; so that , who ever comes to be pope of rome , and possessed of peters chaire the●e by what meanes soever he is possessed of it , whether he believe the gospell or no , or any of the saving truths therein contained , and so their church must be the catholick church , though it follow him in all abominations ; or whether it be made on any condition to him , especially that of cleaving to the doctrine of christ revealed in the gospell ? if they say the first , that it is an absolute grant , that is made to him without any condition expressed or necessarily to be understood , i am at an issue , and have nothing to adde , but my desire that the grant may be produced ; for whilest we are at this variance , it is against all law and equity , that the parties litigant should be admitted to plead bare allegations , without proofe . if the latter , though we should grant all the former monstrous suppositions , yet we are perfectly secure against all their pretensions , knowing nothing more clearly and evidently , then that he and they have broken all conditions , that can possibly be imagined , by corrupting and perverting almost the whole doctrine of the gospell . and whereas it may be supposed , that the great condition of such a grant would consist in his diligent attendance to the scriptures the word of god ; herein doth the filth of their abominations appeare above all other things . the guilt that is in that society or combination of men , in locking up the scriptures in an unknown tongue , forbidding the people to read it , burning some men to death for the studying of it , and no more , disputing against its power , to make good its own authority , charging it with obscurity , imperfection , insufficiency , frighting men from the perusall of it , with the danger of being seduced , and made hereticks by so doing , setting up their own traditions in an equality with it , if not exalting them above it , studying by all meanes to decry it as uselesse and contemptible , at least comparatively with themselves , will not be purged from them for ever . but you will say , this is a simple question . for the pope of rome hath a promise that he shall still be such an one , as is fit to be trusted with the power mentioned ; and not one that shall defend mahumet to be the prophet of god sent into the world , or the like abominations ; at least , that be he what he will , placed in the chaire , he shall not ●●re , nor mistake in what he delivereth for truth . now seeing themselves ( as was said ) are the sole keepers of this promise and grant also , which they have not as yet shewed to the world . i am necessitated to aske once more ; whether it be made to him meerly upon condition of mounting into his chaire , or also on this condition , that he use the means appointed by god to come to the knowledge of the truth ? if they say the former , i must needs say , that it is so remote from my apprehension , that god who will be worshipped in spirit and in truth only , should now under the gospell promise to any persons , that be they never so wicked and abominable , never so openly and evidently sworne enemies of him and his anoynted , whether they use any means or not by him appointed , that they shall alwayes in all things speake the truth , which they hate , in love , which they have not , with that authority which all his saints must bow unto ; especially not having intimated any one word of any such promise in the scripture , that i know not whatever i heard of in my life , that i cannot as soone believe . if they say the latter , we close then as we did our former enquiry . upon the credit and strength of these sandy foundations , and principles , which neither severally nor joyntly will beare the weight of a feather , in a long continued course of apostacy have men conquered all policy , religion , and honesty , and built up that stupendious fabrick coupled together with subtle and scarce discernable joynts and ligaments , which they call the catholick church . 1. in despight of policy they have not only enslaved kings , kingdomes , common-wealths , nations , & people to be their vassalls , and at their disposall ; but also contrary to all rules of goverment , beyond the thoughts and conjectures of all , or any that ever wrote of , or instituted a goverment in the world , they have in most nations of europe set up a government , authority , and jurisdiction , within anothers government and authority setled on other accounts , the one independent on the other , and have brought these things to some kind of consistency ; which that it might be accomplished never entered into the heart of any wise man once to imagine ; nor had ever been by them effected , without such advantages , as none in the world ever had , in such a continuance but themselves . * unlesse the druids of old in some nations obtained some such thing . 2. in despight of religion it self , they have made a new creed , invented new wayes of worship given a whole summe and system , of their own , altogether alien frō the word of god , without an open disclaiming of that word , which in innumerable places beares testimony of its own perfection and fulnesse . 3. contrary to common honesty , the first principles of reason , with violence to the evident dictates of the law of nature , they will in confidence of these principles have the word & sentence of a pope , though a beast , a witch , a conjurer , as by their own confession many of them have been , to be implicite●y submitted to in & about things which he neither knoweth , nor loveth , nor careth for : being yet such in themselves as immediately , and directly concerne the everlasting condition of the soules of men . and this is our second returne to their pretence of being the catholick church ; to which i adde 3. that their plea is so far from truth , that they are , and they only the catholick church , that indeed they belong not to it , because they keep not the vnity of the faith , which is required to constitute any person whatever a member of that church , but faile in all the conditions of it . for 1. to proceed by way of instance , they doe not professe nor believe a justification distinct from sanctification , and acceptance thereof ; the doctrine whereof is of absolu●e & indispensable necessity to the preservation of the vnity of the faith ; and so faile in the first condition of professing all necessary truths . i know what they say of justification , what they have determined concerning it in the councell of trent , what they dispute about it in their books of controversies . but i deny that which they contend for , to be a justification ; so that they doe not deny only justification by faith , but positively over and above , the infusion of grace , and the acceptance of the obedience thence arising ; that there is any justification at all consisting in the free and full absolution of a sinner , on the account of christ . 2. they discover principles corrupt and depraved , utterly inconsistent with those truths , and the receiving of them , which in generall by owning the scriptures they doe professe . herein to passe by the principles of atheisme , wickednesse , and profannesse , that effectually worke and manifest themselves in the generality of their priests & people ; that of self ●ighteousnes that is in the best of their devotionists is utterly inconsistent with the whole doctrine of the gospell , and all saving truths concerning the mediation of jesus christ therein conteined . 3. that in their doctrine of the popes supremacy , of merits , satisfaction , the masse , the worshipping of images , they adde such things to their profession , as enervate the efficacy of all the saving truths they doe professe , and so faile in the third condition ; this hath so abundantly been manifested by others , that i shall not need to adde any thing to give the charge of it upon them any farther evidence or demonstration . thus it is unhappily fallen out with these men , that what of all men they most pretend unto , that of all men they have the least int●erest in ▪ a●haeneus tells us of one thros●●aus an a●henian , who being phrenetically distempered , whatever ships came into the pyraeum he looked on them and thought them his own , and rejoyced as the master of so great wealth , when he was not the owner of so much as a boate : such a distemper of pride and folly hath in the like manner ceased on these persons , with whom we have to doe ; that where ever in scripture they meet with the name church , presently as though they were intended by it , they rejoyce in the priviledges of it , when their concernment lyes not at all therein . to close this whole discourse i shall bring the grand argument of the romanists ( with whom i shall now in this treatise have little more to doe ) wherewith they make such a noise in the world , to an ●ssue . of the many formes and shapes whereinto by them it is cast , this seems to be the most perspicuously expressive of their intention . voluntarily to forsake the communion of the church of christ , is schisme , and they that doe so are guilty of it ; you have voluntarily forsaken the communion of the church of christ : therefore you are guilty of the sinne of schisme . i have purposely omitted the interposing of the terme catholick , that the reason of the argument might runne to its length ; for upon the taking in of that terme , we have nothing to doe but only to deny the minor proposition ; seeing the roman church , be it what it will , is not the church catholick ; but as it is without that limitation called the church of christ indefinitely , it leaves place for a farther and fuller answer . to this by way of inference , they adde , that schisme , as it is declared by s. austin and s thomas of aquin , being so great and damnable a sinne ; and whereas it is plain● , that out of the church , which as peter says is as noahs arke , 1 pet. 3. 20 , 21. there is no salvation , it is cleare you will be damned . this is the summe of their plea. now as for the forementioned argument , some of our divines answer to the minor prop. and that both as to the tearmes of voluntary forsaking , and that also of the communion of the church . for the first , they say they did not voluntarily forsake the communion of the church , that then was , but being necessitated by the command of god to reforme themselves in sundry things , they were driven out by bell , book , and candle ; cursed out , killed out , driven out by all manner of violence , ecclesiasticall and civill ; which is a strange way of mens becoming schismatick . 2. that they forsook not the communion of the church , but the corruptions of it , or the communion of it in its corruption , not in other things , wherein it was lawfull to continue communion with it . to give strength to this answer , they farther adde , that though they grant the church of rome to have been at the time of the first separation , a true church of christ , yet they deny it to be catholick church , or only visible church then in the world ; the churches in the east claiming that title , by as good a right as shee . so they others principally answer to the major prop. and tell you , that separation is either causeles , or upon just ground and cause ; that t is a causeles separation only from the church of christ , that is schisme ; that there can be no cause of schisme , for if there be a cause of schisme materially , it ceaseth to be schisme formally : and so to strengthen their answer in hypothesi , they fall upon the idolatrys , heresies , tyranny , and apostacy of the church of rome , as just causes of separation from her ; nor will their plea be shaken to eternity : so that being true and popular , understood by the meanest , though it contain not the whole truth , i shall not in the least impaire it . for them , who have found out new ways of justifying our separation from rome , on principles of limiting the jurisdiction of the bishop of rome to a peculiar patriarchat , and granting a power to kings or nations , to erect a patriarchate or metropolitan , within their own territories , and the like ; the protestant cause is not concerned in their plea ; the whole of it on both hands , being forraigne to the scripture , relating mostly to humane constitutions , wherein they may have liberty to exercise their witts and abilities . not receding from what hath by others solidly been pleaded , on the answers above mentioned ; in answer to the principles i have hitherto evinced , i shall proceed to give my account of the argument proposed . that we mistake not , i only premise , that i take schisme in this argument , in the notion and sense of the scripture precisely , wherein alone it will reach the consciences , and bear the weight of inferring damnation from it . 1. then i wholly deny the major prop. as utterly false , in what sense soever that expression , true church of christ is taken . take it for the catholick church of christ , i deny that any one , who is once a true member of it , can utterly forsake its communion ; no living member of that body of christ can perish ! and on supposition it could doe so , it would be madnesse to call that crime schisme : nor is this , a meer deniall of the assertion ; but such as is attended , with an invincible truth for its maintenance . take it for the generall visible church of christ ; the voluntary forsaking of its communion , which consists in the profession of the same faith , is not schisme , but apostacy , and the thing it selfe is to be removed from the question in hand ; and as for apostates from the faith of the gospell , we question not their damnation ; it sleepeth not : who ever call'd a christian , that turned jew or mahumetan a schismatick ? take it for a particular church of christ , i deny , 1. that separation from a particular church , as such , as meerly separation , is schisme , or ought to be so esteemed ; though perhaps such separation may proceed from schisme , and be also attended with other evills . 2. that however , separation upon jus● cause , and ground , from any church , is no schisme : this is granted by all persons living . schisme is causelesse say all men however concerned . and herein is a truth uncontroulable , separation upon just cause is a duty ; and therefore cannot be schisme , which is alwayes a sinne . now there are 500 things in the church of rome whereof every one , grafted , as they are , there into the stock & principle of imposition on the practice and confession of men ▪ is a sufficient cause of separation from any particular church in the world ; yea from all of them , one after another ; should they all consent unto the same thing , & impose it in the same manner ; if therebe any truth in that maxime ; it is better to obey god then man. 2 ▪ i wholy deny the minor proposition also , if spoken in reference to the church of rome ; though i willingly acknowledge our separation to be voluntary from them ; no more being done , then i would doe over againe this day ( god assisting me ) were i called unto it . but separation in the sense contended about , must be from some s●ate and condition of christs institution , from communion with a church , which we held by his appointment ; otherwise it will not be pleaded , that it is a schisme , at least not in a gospell sense . now though our forefathers , in the faith we professe , lived in sub ection to the pope of rome ( or his subordinate engines ) yet they were not so subject to them , in any way , or state instituted by christ ; so that the relinquishment of that state can possibly be no such separation , as to be termed schisme . for i wholy deny ; that the papacy exercising its power in its supreame and subordinate officers , which with them is their church , is a church at all of christs appointment , or any such thing . and when they prove it is so , i will be of it . so that when our forefathers withdrew their neck from his tyrannicall yoke , and forsook the practice of his abominations in the worship of god , they forsook no church of christs institution , they relinquished no communion of christs appointment . a man may possibly forsake babylon , and yet not forsake sion . for the aggravations of the sinne of schisme , from some ancient writer● , austin and optatus men interested in the contests about it , leo and innocent gaining by the notion of it , then growing in the world , thomas aquinas and such vassalls of the papacy , we are not concerned in them ; what the lord speaks of it , that we judge concerning it . it is true , of the catholic● church alwaies , that out of it no salvation , it being the society of them that shall be saved ; and of the visible church in generall , in some sense and cases : seeing with the heart man believeth to righteousnesse , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation ; but of a particular church in no sense , unlesse that of contempt of a known duty ; and to imagine peter to speak of any such thing , is a fancy . the consequence of this devesting the roman synogogue of the priviledges of a true church in any sense , arising in the thoughts of some to a denyall of that ministry , which we have at this day in england , must by the way a little be considered . for my part ( be it spoken without offence ) if any man hath nothing to plead for his ministry , but meerly that successive ordination which he hath received through the church of rome , i cannot see a stable bottome of owning him so to be ; i do not say , if he will plead nothing ●lse ; but if he hath nothing else to plead . he may have that , which indeed constitutes him a minister , though he will not own● that so it doth . nor doth it come here into enquiry , whether there were not a true ministry in some , all along under the papacy , distinct from it , as were the thousands in israell in the days of elijah ; when in the ten tribes , as to the publick worship , there was no true ministry at all . nor is it said , that any have their ministry from rome , a● though the office , which is an ordinance of christ , was instituted by antichrist : but the question is , whether this be a sufficient and good basis and foundation of any mans interest in the office of the ministry , that he hath received ordination in a succession , through the administration of , not the woman flying into the wildernesse under the persecution of antichrist , not of the two witnesses prophesying all along under the roman apostacy , not from them to whom we succeed in doctrine , as the waldenses , but the beast it selfe , the persecuting church of rome , the pope and his adherents , who were certainly administrators of the ordination pleaded for : so that in doctrine we should succeed the persecuted woman , and in office the perse●uting beast . i shall not plead this at large , professedly disclaiming all thoughts of rejecting those ministers , as papall and antichristian , who yet adhere to this ordination ▪ being many of them eminently gifted of god , to dispense the word , and submitted unto by his people in the administration of the ordinances , and are right worthy ministers of the gospell of christ . but i shall only remarke some thing on the plea , that is insisted on by them , who would , ( if i mistake not ) keep up in this particular , what god would have pull'd downe . they aske us why not ordination from the church of rome , as well as the scripture ? in which enquiry , i am sorry that some doe still continue . we are so farre from having the scripture from the church of rome , by any authority of it , as such , that it is one cause of daily praising god , that by his providence he kept them from being either corrupted or destroyed by them . it i● true ; the bible was kept among the people that lived in those parts of the world where the pope prevailed : so was the old testament by the jews ; the whole by the easterne christians : by none so corrupted as by those of the papall territorie . god forbid we should say we ●ad the scriptures from the church of rome as such ; if we had , why doe we not keep them as she delivered them to us , in the vulgar translation , with the apochryphall additions ? the ordination pleaded for , is from the authority of the church of rome , as such : the scriptures were by the providence of god preserved under the papacy for the use of his people ; and had they been found by chance , as it were , like the law of old , they had been the same to us , that now they are . so that of these things there is not the same reason . it is also pleaded , that the granting true ordination to the church of rome doth not prove that to be a true church . this i professe i underst●and not : they who ordained had no power so to doe , but as they were officers of that church ; as such they did it ; and if others had ordained , who were not officers of that church , all would confesse that action to be null . but they who will not be contented that christ hath appointed the office of the ministry to be continued in his churches , that he continues to dispense his gifts of the spirit for the execution of that office when men are called thereunto , that he prepares the hearts of his people to desire and submit unto them in the lord , that as to the manner of entrance upon the worke , they may have it according to the minde of christ , to the utmost in all circumstances , so soon as his churches are shaken out of the dust of babylon with his glory shining on them , and the tabernacle of god is thereby once more placed with men , shall have leave for me to derive their interest in the ministry through that darke passage , wherein i cannot see one step before me ; if they are otherwise qualified and accepted as above , i shall ever pay them that honour which is done to elders labouring in the word and doctrine . chap. vii . of a particular church : its nature . frequently mentioned in scripture . particular congregations acknowledged the only churches of the first institution . what ensued on the multiplication of churches . some things premised to clear the unity of the church in this sence . every believer ordinarily obliged to joyne himselfe to some particular church : many things in instituted worship answering a naturall principle . perpetuity of the church in this sence . true churches at first planted in england . how they ceased so to be . how churches may be again reerected . of the vnion of a particular church in its selfe . foundation of that vnion twofold . the vnion its selfe . of the communion of particular churchers one with another . our concernment in this vnion . i now descend to the last consideration of a church in the most usuall acceptation of that name in the new testament ; that is , of a particular instituted church . a church in this sence i take to be a society of men , called by the word to the obedience of the faith in christ and joynt performance of the worship of god in the same individuall ordinances , according to the order by christ prescribed . this generall description of it exhibits its nature so farre as is necessary to cleare the subject of our present disquisition . a more accurate definition would only administer farther occasion of contesting about things , not necessary to be determined as to the enquiry in hand . such as this was the church at hierusalem , that was persecuted act. 8. 1. the church whereof saul made havock v. 3. the church that was vexed by herod act. 12. 1. such was the church at antioch , which assembled together in one place act. 13. 14. wherein were sundry prophets act. 13 , 1. as that at hierusalem consisted of elders and bretherren act. 15. 22. the apostles or some of them being there then present , which added no other consideration to that church then that we are now speaking of . such were those mens churches wherein elders were ordained by pauls appointment act. 14. 23. as also the church of coesarea act. 18. 22. & at ephesus act. 20. 14. 28. as was that at corinth 1 cor. 1. 2. c. 6. 4. & 11. 12. & 14. 4 , 5. 12. 19. 2 cor. 1 ▪ 1. and those mentioned rev. 1. 2 , 3. all which paul calls the churches of the gentiles rom. 16. 4. in contradistinction to those of the jews , and calls them indefinitely the churches of god , v. 16. or the churches of christ , 1 cor. 7. 17. 2 cor. 8 18. 19. 23. 2 thess . 1. 4. and in sundry other places . hence we have mention of many churches in one country , as in judaea act. 9. 1. in asia . 1 cor. 16. 19. in macedonia 2 cor. 8. 1. in galatia gal. 1. 2. the seven churches of asia rev. 1. 11. and unto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act 16. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 answers v. 5. in the same country . i suppose that in this description of a particular church i have not only the consent of them of all sorts , with whom i have now to doe , as to what remaines of this discourse , but aso their acknowledgment that these were the only kinds of churches of the first institution . the reverend authors of the jus divinum ministerii anglicani p. 2 c. 6. tell us , that in the beginning of christianity the number of believers even in the greatest citys were so few , as that they might all meet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one and the same place . and these are called the church of the city , and the angell of such a city was congregationall not diocesan ; which discourse exhibits that state of a particular church , which is now pleaded for , and which shall afterwards be evinced , allowing no other , no not in the greatest cityes . in a rejoynder to that treatise , so far at the case of episcopacy is herein concerned , by a person well known by his labours in that cause , this is acknowledged to be so . believers ( saith he ) in great cityes were not at first divided into parishes , whilst the number of christians was so small , that they might well assemble in the same place , ham vind. p. 16. of the believers of one city meeting in one place , being one church , we have the like grant p. 18. in this particular church , he sayes , there was one bishop , which had the rule of it , and of the believers in the villages adjacent to that city ; which as it sometimes was not so , rom. 16. 1 , 2. so for the most part it seemed to have been the case ; and distinct churches upon the growth of the number of believers , were to be erected in severall places of the voisinage . and this is the state of a particular instituted church which we plead for . whether in processe of time , believers multiplying , those who had been of one church met in severall assemblies , by a setled distribution of them , to celebrate the same ordinances specifically , and so made many churches ; or met in severall places in parties , still continuing one body , and were governed in common by the elders , whom they increased and multiplied , in proportion to the increase of believers ; or whether , that one or more officers , elders , or bishops of that first single congregation , taking on him or them , the care of those inhabiting the city , wherein the church was first planted , designed , and sent some fitted for that purpose , upon their desire & choice , ( or otherwise ) to the severall lesser companies of the region adjacent , which in processe of time became dependent on , & subject to the officer and officers of that first church , from whence they came forth , i dispute not . i am satisfied , that the first plantation of churches was as hath been pleaded . and i know what was done afterwards on the one hand , or the other , must be examined , as to our concernment , by what ought to have been done . but of those things afterwards . now according to the course of procedure hitherto insisted on , a declaration of the vnity of the church in this sense , what it is , wherein it doth consist , with what it is to be guilty of the breach of that unity , must ensue ; and this shall be done after i have premised some few things previously necessary thereunto . i say then 1. a man may be a member of the catholick church of christ , be united to him by the inhabitation of his spirit , and participation of his life from him , who upon the account of some providentiall hinderance , is never joyned to any particular congregation , for the participation of ordinances all his daies . 2. in like manner may he be a member of the church considered as professing visibly . seeing that he may doe all that is of him required thereunto , without any such conjunction to a visible particular church . but yet , 3. i willingly grant , that every believer is obliged , as in a part of his duty , to joyne himselfe to some one of those churches of christ ; that therein he may abide in doctrine , and fellowship , and breaking of bread , and prayer , according to the order of the gospell , if he have advantage and opportunity so to doe ; for , 1. there are some duties incumbent on us , which cannot possibly be performed , but on a supposition of this duty previously required , and submitted unto . math. 18. 15 , 16 , 17. 2. there are some ordinances of christ , appointed for the good , and benefit of those that believe , which they can never be made partakers of , if not related to some such society . as publick admonition , excommunication , participation of the sacraments of the lords supper . 3 the care that jesus christ hath taken , that all things be well ordered in these churches , giving no direction for the performance of any duty of worship meerly and purely of soveraigne institution , but only in them , and by them , who are so joyned , sufficiently evidence his mind , and our duty herein . rev. 2. 7. 11. 29. rev. 3. 6. 7. 12. 1 cor. 11. 4. the gathering , planting , and setling of such churches by the apostles , with the care they took in bringing them to perfection , leaving none , whom they converted , out of that order , where it was possible for them to be reduced unto it , is of the same importance , act. 14. 23. tit. 1. 5. 5. christs institution of officers for them , eph. 4. 11. 1 cor. 11. 28. calling such a church his body v. 29. exactly assigning to every one his duty in such societies , in respect of the place he held in them , with his care for their preservation from confusion , and for order , evinces from whom they are , and what is our duty in reference unto them . 6. the judging and condemning them by the holy ghost , as disorderly blameable persons , who are to be avoided , who walk not according to the rules and order appointed in these churches , his care that those churches be not scandalized , or offended with innumerable other considerations , evince their institution to be from heaven , not of men , or any prudentiall considerations of them whatever . that there is an instituted worship of god to be continued under the new testam . untill the second coming of christ , i suppose needs not much proofe . with those with whom it hath soe , i am not now treating , and must not make it my businesse to give it evidence , by the innumerable testimonies which might be alleadged to that purpose . that for the whole of his worship , matter , or manner , or any part of it , god hath changed his way of proceeding , and will now allow the will , and prudence of man , to be the measure , and rule of his honour and glory therein , contrary to what he did , or would allow under the law , is so prejudiciall to the perfection of the gospell ▪ infinite wisdome , and all-sufficiency of christ , and so destructive to the whole obligation of the second commandement , having no ground in the scripture , but being built meerly on the conceit of men , suited to one carnall interest or other , i shall unwillingly debate it . that as to this particular under consideration , there were particular churches instituted by the authority of jesus christ , owned and approved by him ; that officers for them were of his appointment , and furnished with gifts from him for the execution of their employment ; that rules , cautions , and instructions for the due settlement of those churches , were given by him ; that these churches were made the only seat of that worship , which in particular he expressed his will to have continued untill he came , is of so much light in scripture , that he must wink hard , that will not see it . that either he did not originally appoint these things , or he did not give out the gifts of his spirit , in reference to the right ordering of them , and exalting of his glory in them , or that having done so then , yet that his institutions have an end , being only for a season ▪ and that it may be known when the efficacy of any of his institutions ceaseth , or that he doth not now dispense the gifts and graces of his spirit , to render them usefull , is a difficult taske for any man to undertake to evince . there is indeed in the institutions of christ , much that answers a naturall principle in men , who are on many accounts formed and fitted for society . a confederation and consultation to carrie on any designe , wherein the concernment of the individualls doth lye , within such bounds , and in such order as lyes in a ready way to the end aymed at , is exceeding suitable to the principles whereby we are acted and guided as men . but he that would hence conclude , that there is no more but this , and the acting of these principles , in this church constitution , whereof we speake , and that therefore men may be cast into any prudentiall forme ; or appoint other wayes and formes of it , then those mentioned in the scripture , as appointed , and owned , takes on himselfe the demonstrating that all things necessarily required to the constitution of such a church society , are commanded by the law of nature , and therefore allowed of , and approved only by christ , & so to be wholy morall , and to have nothing of instituted worship in them ; and also he must know , that when on that supposition , he hath given a probable reason , why never any persons in the world fixed on such societies in all essentiall things as those , seeing they are naturall , that he leaves lesse to the prudence of men and to the ordering and disposing of things concerning them , then those , who make them of pure institution , all whose circumstances cannot be derived from themselves ; as those of things purely morall may . but this is not of my present consideration . 2. nor shall i consider , whether perpetuity be a property of the church of christ in this sence ; that is , not whether a church that was once so , may cease to be so , which it is known i plead for in the instance of the church of rome , not to mention others ; but whether by vertue of any promise of christ , there shall alwayes be somewhere in the world , a visible church , visibly celebrating his ordinances . luc. 1. 33. he shall raigne over the house of jacob for ever , and of his kingdome there shall be no end ; is pleaded to this purpose . but that any more , but the spirituall raigne of christ in his catholick church , is there intended , is not proved ▪ mat. 16. 18. upon this rock will i build my church , is also urged ; but to intend any but true believers , and that as such , in that promise , is wholly to enervate it , and to take away its force and efficacy . mat. 18. 18 , 20. declares the presence of christ with his church where ever it be , not that a church in the regard treated of , shall be . to the same purpose are other expressions in the scripture . as i will not deny this in generall ; so i am unsatisfyed as to any particular instance for the making of it good . it is said , that true churches were at first planted in england ; how then , or by what means did they cease so to be ? how , or by what act did god unchurch them ? they did it themselves meritoriously by apostacy and idolatry , god legally by his institution of a law of rejection of such churches . if any shall aske , how then is it possible , that any such churches should be raised a new ? i say , that the catholick church mysticall , and that visibly professing , being preserved entire , he that thinketh there needs a miracle , for those who are members of them , to joyne in such a society , as those now spoken of , according to the institution of christ , is a person delighting in needlesse scruples . christ hath promised , that where two or three are gathered together in his name , he will be in the midst of them , mat. 18. 20. it is now supposed , with some hope to have it granted , that the scripture being the power of god to salvation , hath ( rom. 1. 16. ) a sufficient efficacy and energie in it selfe , as to its own kind , for the conversion of soules ; yea let us , till opposition be made to it , take it for granted , that by that force and efficacy it doth mainly and principally evince its own divinity , or divine originall . those , who are contented for the honour of that word , which god delighteth to magnify , to grant this supposition , will not i hope , think it impossible , that though all church state should cease in any place , and yet the scripture by the providence of god be there in the hand of individualls preserved , two or three should be called , converted , and regenerated by it . for my part , i think , he that questions it , must doe it on some corrupt principle of a secondary dependent authority in the word of god as to us ; with which sort of men i doe not now deale . i aske whether these converted persons may nor possibly come together , or assemble themselves in the name of jesus ? may they not upon his command , and in expectation of the accomplishment of his promise , so come together , with resolution to doe his will , and to exhort one another thereto , zech. 3. 10. mal. 3. 10. truly i believe they may , in what part of the world soever their lot is fallen . here lye all the difficulties , whether being come together in the name of christ they may doe , what he hath commanded them , or no ? whether they may exhort , and stirre up one another to doe the will of christ . most certain it is , that christ will give them his presence , & therewithall his authority , for the performance of any duty , that he requireth at their hands . were not men angry , troubled , and disappointed , there would be little difficulty in this businesse . but of this elsewhere . 3. upon this supposition , that particular churches are institutions of jesus christ , which is granted by all , with whom i have to doe ; i proceed to make enquiry into their vnion and communion , that so we may know wherein the bonds of them doe consist . 1. there is a double foundation , fountain , or cause of the vnion of such a church ; the one externall , procuring , commanding ; the other internall , inciting , directing , assisting . the first is the institution of jesus christ , before mentioned , requiring peace , and order , vnion , consent , and agreement , in and among all the members of such a church ; all to be regulated , ordered , and bounded , by the rules , laws , prescripts , which from him they have received , for their walking in those societies . the latter is that love without dissimulation , which alwaies is , or which alwaies ought to be , between all the members of such a church , exerting it selfe in their respective duties one towards another , in that holy combination , whereunto they are called and enter'd for the worship of god : whether they are those , which lye in the levell of the equality of their common interest of being church-members , or those which are required of them in the severall differences , whereby on any account whatever , they are distinguished one from another amongst themselves ; for love is the bond of perfectnesse . col. 3. 14. hence then it appears , what is the vnion of such a church , and what is the communion to be observed therein , by the appointment of jesus christ . the joynt consent of all the members of it , in obedience to the command of christ , from a principle of love , to walk together in the universall celebration of all the ordinances of the worship of god , instituted and appointed to be celebrated in such a church , and to performe all the duties , and offices of love , which in reference to one another , in their respective stations and places , are by god required of them ; and doing so accordingly . see phil. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. cap. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. 1 cor : 1. 10. 2 cor. 13. 11. rom. 15. 5. whereas there are in these churches , some rulers , some ruled ; some eyes , some hands in this body , some parts visibly comely , some uncomely ; upon the account of that variety of gifts and graces which is distributed to them ; in the performance of duties , regard is to be had to all the particular rules , that are given with respect to men in their severall places and distributions . herein doth the vnion of a particular church consist ; herein have the members of it communion among themselves , and with the whole . 4. i shall farther grant , and adde hereunto : over and above the vnion that is between th● members of severall particular churches , by vertue of their interest in the church catholick , which draws after it a necessity of the occasionall exercise of duties of love one towards another , and that communion they have , as members of the generall church visible , in the profession of the faith once delivered unto the saints ; there is a communion also to be observed between these churches , as such , which is sometimes , or may be exerted in their assemblies by their delegates , for declaring the sense , and determining things of joynt concernment unto them . whether there ought to be an ordinary combination of the officers of these churches , invested with the power for the disposall of things & persons , that concerne one or more of them , in severall subordinations , by the institution of christ ; as it is not my judgement that so there is , so it belongs not unto my present undertaking at all to debate . that which alone remaines to be done , is to consider , what is our concernment as to the breach of this vnion , which we professe to be appointed by jesus christ ; and that both as we are protestants , as also farther differenced according to the intimations given at the entrance of this discourse . what hath already been delivered about the nature of schisme , and the scripture notion of it , might well suffice , as to our vindication in this businesse from any charge that we are , or seem obnoxious unto . but because i have no● reason to suppose , that some men will be so favourable unto us , as to take paines for the improvement of principles , though in themselves clearely evinced on our behalfe ; the application of them to some present cases , with the removall of objections that lye against my intendment , must be farther added . some things there are , which upon what hath been spoken , i shall assume and suppose as granted in thesi , untill i see them otherwise disproved , then as yet i have done . of these the first is . that the departing or secession of any man or men , from any particular church , as to that communion , which is peculiar to such a church , which he or they have had therewith , is no where called schisme , nor is so in the nature of the thing it selfe , ( as the generall signification of the word is restrained by its scripture use ) but is a thing to be judged , & receive a little according to the causes and circumstances of it . 2. one churches refusing to hold that communion with another , which ought to be between them , is not schisme properly so called . 3. the departure of any man or men , from the society or communion of any church whatever , so it be done without strife , variance , judging , and condemning of others , because according to the light of their consciences , they cannot in all things in them worship god according to his minde , cannot be rendred evill but from circumstances taken from the persons so doing , or the way and manner , whereby and wherein they doe it . unto these i adde , that if any one can shew and evince that we have departed from , and left the communion of any particular church of christ , with which we ought to walke according to the order above mentioned , or have disturbed and broken the order and vnion of christs institution , wherein we are or were inwrapped , we put our selves on the mercy of our judges . the consideration of what is the charge on any of us , on this account , was the first thing aymed at in this discourse , and as it was necessary from the rules of the method wherein i have proceeded , comes now in the last place to be put to the issue and triall , which it shall in the next chapter . chap. viii . of the church of england . the charge of schisme in the name thereof . proposed and considered : severall considerations of the church of england . in what sence we were members of it . of anabaptisme . the subjection due to bishops . their power examined . it s orginall in this nation . of the ministeriall power of bishops . it s present continuance . of the church of england what it is . it s description . forme peculiar and constitutive . answer to the charge of schisme , on separation from it , in its episcopall constitution how and by what means it was taken away . things necessary to the constitution of such a church proposed : and offered to proofe . the second way of constituting a nationall church : considered . principles agreed on and consented unto between the parties at variance , on this account . judgement of amiraldus in this case . inferences from the common principles before consented unto : the case of schisme in reference to a nationall church in the last sense , debated . of particular churches , and separation from them . on what accounts justifiable . no necessity of joyning to this or that . separation from some so called , required . of the church of corinth . the duty of its members . austins judgement of the practice of elijah . the last objection waved . inferences upon the whole . that which first presents it selfe , is a plea against us , in the name of the church of england , and those intrusted with the reiglment thereof , as it was setled and established some yeares since , the summe whereof ( if i mistake not ) amounts to thus much . you were sometimes members and children of the church of england , & lived in the communion thereof ; professing obedience thereunto , according to its rules and canons ; you were in an orderly subjection to the arcsh-bishops , bishops , and those acting under them in the hierarchie , who were officers of that church ; in that church you were baptized , and joyned in the outward worship celebrated therein ; but you have now voluntarily , and of your own accord forsaken and renounced the communion of this church , cast off your subjection to the bishops and rulers ; rejected the forme of worship appointed in that church , that great bond of its communion ; and set up separated churches of your own , according to your pleasures , and so are properly schismaticks . this i say , if i mistake not , is the summe of the charge against us , on the account of of our late attempt for reformation , and reducing of the church of christ to its primitive institution , which we professe our aime in singlenesse of heart to have been , and leave the judgement of it unto god. to acquit our selves of this imputation , i shall declare 1. how farre we owne our selves to have been , or to be members or children ( as they speake ) of the church of england , as it is called , or esteemed . 2. what was the subjection whein we , or any of us stood , or might be supposed to have stood to the prelates or bishops of that church . and then i shall 3. put the whole to the issue , and enquiry , whether we have broken any bond or order , which by the institution and appointment of jesus christ , we ought to have preserved entire , & unviolated : not doubting but that on the whole matter in difference , we shall finde the charge mannaged against us , to be resolved wholy into the pru●ence , and interest of some men , wherein our consciences are not concerned . as to the first proposall ; the severall considerations that the church of england may fall under , will make way for the determination of our relation thereunto . 1. there being in this country of england , much people of god , many of his elect called and sanctified , by and through the spirit and blood of christ , with the washing of water and the word , so made true living members of the mysticall body , or catholick church of christ , holding him , as a spirituall head , receiving influences of life and grace from him continually , they may be called , ( though improperly ) the church of england , that is , that part of christs catholick church militant , which lives in england . in this sense it is the desire of our soules , to be found and to abide members of the church of england , to keep with it , whilst we live in this world , the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace . hierusalem which is above , is the mother of us all ; and one is our father , which is in heaven ; one is our head , soveraigne , lord , and ruler , the dearly beloved of our soules , the lord jesus christ . if we have grieved , offended , troubled the least member of this church , so that he may justly take offence at any of our waies , we professe our readinesse to lye at his or their feet for reconciliation , according to the mind of christ . if we bear not love to all the members of the church of england in this sense , without dissimulation , ( yea even to them amongst them , who through mistakes and darknesse , have on severall accounts designed our harme and ruine ) if we rejoyce not with them , and suffer not with them , however they may be differenced in and by their opinions , or walkings , if we desire not their good , as the good of our own soules , and are not ready to hold any communion with them , wherein their and our light will give and afford unto us peace mutually , if we judge , condemne , despise any of them , as to their persons , spirituall state and condition , because they walk not with us , let us be esteemed the vilest schismaticks , that ever lived on the face of the earth . but as to our membership in the church of england on this account , we stand or fall to our own master . 2. the rulers , governors , teachers , and body of the people of this nation of england , having by laws , professions , and publick protestations , cast off the tyranny , authority , & doctrine of the church of rome , with its head the pope ; & joyntly assented unto , and publickly professed the doctrine of the gospell , as expressed in their publick confession , variously attested and confirmed , declaring their profession by that publick confession , preaching , laws and writings suitable thereunto , may also be called on good account , the church of england . in this sense , we professe ourselves members of the church of england , as professing and adhering to that doctrine of faith in the unity of it , which was here established and declared , as was before spoken . as to the attempt of some , who accuse us for everting of fundamentalls , by our doctrine of election by the free grace of god , of effectuall redemption of the elect only , conversion by the irresistible efficacy of grace , and the associate doctrines , which are commonly known , we suppose the more sober part of our adversaries will give them little thanks for their pains therein : if for no other reason , yet at least , because they know the cause , they have to mannage against us , is weakned thereby . indeed it seems strange to us , that we should be charged with schisme from the church of england , for endeavouring to reforme our selves , as to something relating to the worship of god , by men everting , and denying so considerable a portion of the doctrine of that church , which we sacredly retaine entire , as the most urgent of our present adversaries doe . in this sense i say we still confesse our selves members of the church of england ; nor have we made any separation from it , but do daily labour to improve , and carry on the light of the gospell , which shines therein , and on the account whereof , it is renowned in the world . 3. though i know not how proper that expression of children of the church may be under the new testament , nor can by any meanes consent unto it , to the urging of any obedience to any church or churches whatsoever on that account ; no such use being made of that consideration by the holy ghost , nor any parallell unto it insisted on by him ; yet in a generall sence , so farre as our receiving our regeneration , and new birth , through the grace of god by the preaching of the word , and the saving truths thereof , here professed , with the seale of it in our baptisme , may be signified by that expression , we owne our selves to have been , and to be children of the church of england , because we have received all this by the administration of the gospell here in england , as dispensed in the severall assemblyes therein : and are contented , that this concession be improved to the utmost . here indeed are we left by them , who renounce the baptisme they have received in their infancy , & repeat it again amongst themselves . yet i suppose , that he , who upon that single account will undertake to prove them schismaticall , may find himselfe intangled . nor is the case with them exactly as it was with the donatists . they doe the same thing with them , but not on the same principles . the donatists rebaptized those , who came to their societies , because they professed themselves to believe , that all administration of ordinances not in their assemblyes was null : and that they were to be looked on as no such thing . our anabaptists doe the same thing , but on this plea , that though baptisme be , yet infant baptisme is not an institution of christ , and so is null from the nature of the thing it selfe , not the way of its administration : but this fals not within the verge of my defence . in these severall considerations we were , and doe continue members in the church of god in england ; and as to our failing herein , who is it , that convinces us of sinne ? the second thing inquired after is , what subjection we stood , or were supposed to have stood in , to the bishops ? our subjection being regulated by their power , the consideration of this , discovers the true state of that . they had , and exercised in this nation , a twofold power ; and consequently the subjection required of us , was twofold . 1. a power delegated from the supream magistrate of the nation , conferred on them , and invested in them , by the laws , customes , and vsages of this commonwealth , and exercised by them on that account . this not only made them barons of the realme , and members of parliament , and gave them many dignities and priviledges , but also was the sole fountain , and spring of that jurisdiction , which they exercised by wayes and meanes , such as themselves will not plead to have been purely ecclesiasticall , and of the institution of jesus christ . in this respect we did not cast off our subjection to them ; it being our duty to submit our selves to every ordinance of man , for the lords sake . only when ever they commanded things unlawfull in themselves , or unto us , we alwaies retreated to the old safe rule , whether it be meet to obey you or god , judge yee . on this foundation i say , was all the jurisdiction , which they exercised among , and over the people of this nation , built . they had not leave to exercise that , which they were invested in , on another account , but received formally their authority thereby . the tenour whereby their predecessors held this power before the reformation , the change of the tenour by the laws of this land , the investitu●e of the whole originall right thereof in another person , then formerly , by the same means , the legall concession and delegation to them made , the enlarging or contracting of their jurisdiction by the same laws , the civill processe of their courts in the exercise of their authority , sufficiently evince from whence they had it . nor was any thing herein any more of the institution of jesus christ , then the courts are in westminster-hall sir edward cook , who knew the laws of his country , and was skilled in them to a miracle , will satisfy any in the rise and tenour of episcopall jurisdiction : de jure regis eccles . what there is of primitive institution , giving colour and occasion to this kind of jurisdiction , and the exercise of it , shall farther ( god assisting ) be declared , when i treat of the state of the first churches , and the waies of their degeneracy ; let them , or any for them , in the mean time evince the jurisdiction they exercised , in respect whereunto our subjection in the first kind was required , to derive its originall from the pure institution of christ in the gospell , or to be any such thing as it was , in an imagined separation from the humane laws , whereby it was animated ; and more will be asserted , then i have had the happinesse as yet to see . now i say , that the subjection to them due , on this account , we did not cast off ; but their whole authority , power , and jurisdiction was removed , taken away , and anull'd , by the people of the land assembled in parliament . but this , they reply , is the state of the businesse in hand ; the parliament , as much as in them lay , did so indeed as is confessed , and by so doing made the schisme , which you by adhering to them , and joyning with them in their severall places , have made your selves also guilty of . but do these men know what they say , or will it ever trouble the conscience of a man in his right wits , to be charged with schisme on this account ? the parliament made alteration of nothing , but what they found established by the laws of this nation , pleading that they had power committed to them , to alter , abrogate , and anull laws for the good of the people of the land. if their making alterations in the civill laws and constitutions , in the politicall administrations of the nation be schisme , we have very little security , but that we may be made new schismaticks every third year , whilest the constitution of a trienniall parliament doth continue . in the removall then of all episcopall jurisdiction founded in the laws and usages of this nation , we are not at all concerned . for the laws enforcing it , doe not presse it as a thing necessary on any other account , but as that which themselves gave rise and life unto . but should this be granted , that the office was appointed by christ , and the jurisdiction impleaded annexed by him thereunto ; yet this , whilest we abide at diocesans , with the severall divisions apportioned to them in the nation , will not suffice to constitute a nationall church , unlesse some vnion of those diocesans , or of the churches whereunto they related , into one society and church , by the same appointment , be proved , which to my present apprehension , will be no easy work for any one to undertake . 2. bishops had here a power as ministers of the gospell , to preach , administer the sacraments , to joyne in the ordination of ministers , and the like duties of church officers . to this we say , let the individualls of them acquit themselves , by the qualifications mentioned in the epistles to timothy and titus , with a sedulous exercise of their duty in a due manner , according to the mind of christ to be such indeed , and we will still pay them all the respects , reverence , duty , and obedience , which as such , by vertue of any law or institution of christ , they can claime . let them come forth , with weapons that are not carnall , evidencing their ministry to the consciences of believers , acting in a spirit and power received from christ , and who are they that will harme them ? i had once formerly said thus much . let the bishops attend the particular flocks over which they are appointed , preaching the word , administring the holy ordinances of the gospell in and to their own flock , there will not be contending about them . it was thought meet to returne by one concerned , i shall willingly grant herein my suffrage , let them discharge them ( and i beseech all , who have any way hindered them , at length to let and quietly permit them ) on condition he will doe this as carefully as i , i shall not contend with him concerning the nature of their taske , be it as he saith the attending to the particular churches over which they are appointed ( the bishop of oxford over that flock or portion , to which he was , and is appointed , and so all others in like manner ) be it their preaching and their administring the holy ordinances of the gospell in and to their ●wn flock and whatever else of duty and ratione officii belongs to a rightly constituted bishop ; and ●et all that have disturbed this course so duly ●●tled in this church , and in all churches of christ ●●nce the apostles planting them , discerne their ●●●rour , and returne to that peace and vnity of the church , from whence they have causelesly and inexcusably departed . though i was not then speaking of the bishops of england , yet i am contented with the application to them ; there being amongst them men of piety and learning , whom i exceedingly honour & reverence : amongst all the bishops , he of oxford is i suppose peculiarly instanced in , because it may be thought , that living in this place , i may belong to his jurisdiction . but in the condition wherein i now am by the providence of god , i can plead an exemption on the same foot of account , as he can his jurisdiction . so that i am not much concerned in his exercise of it , as to my own person . if he have a particular flock at oxon , which he will attend according to what before i required , he shall have no let or hindrance from me ; but being he is , as i heare he is , a reverend and learned person , i shall be glad of his neighbourhood & acquaintance . but to suppose that the diocesse of oxon as legally constituted and bounded , is his particular flock or church , that such a church is instituted by christ , or hath been in being ever since the apostles times , that in his presidency in this church he is to set up courts , and exercise a jurisdiction in them , and therewith a power over all the inhabitants of this diocesse or shire ( excepting the exempt peculiar jurisdiction ) although gathered into particular congregations , and united by a participation of the same ordinances ; and all this by the will and appointment of jesus christ , is to suppose what will not be granted . i confesse , as before , there was once such an order in this place , & that it is now removed by lawes , on which foundation alone it stood before : and this is that where in i am not concerned . whether we have causelesly & inexcusably departed frō the vnity of the church , is the matter now in enquiry . i am sure , unles the vnity can be fixed , our departure will not be proved . a law vnity i confesse , an evangelicall i am yet in the disquisition of . but i confesse it will be to the prejudice of the cause in hand , if it shall be thought , that the determination of it depends on the controversy about episcopacy : for if so , it might be righteously expected that the arguments produced in the behalfe , and defence thereof , should be particularly discussed . but the truth is , i shall easily acknowledge all my labour to no purpose ▪ if have to deale only with men , who suppose that if it be granted , that bishops , as commonly esteemed in this nation , are of the appointment of christ , it will thence follow , that we have a nationall church of christs appointment : between which indeed there is no relation or connexion . should i grant as i said diocesan bishops , with churches answerable to their supportment , particled into severall congregations , with their inferiour officers , yet this would be remote enough , from giving subsistence and vnion to a nationall church . what then it is which is called the church of england , in respect whereto we are charged with schisme , is nextly to be considered . now there are two wayes whereby we may come to the discoverie of what is intended by the church of england : or there are two ways , whereby such a thing doth arise . 1. descendendo , which is the way of the prelates . 2. ascendendo , which is the way of the presbyterians . for the first , to constitute a nationall church by descent ; it must be supposed that all church power is vested in nationall officers viz. arch-bishops , and from them derived to severall diocesians by a distribution of power limited in its exercise to a certaine portion of the nation , and by them communicated by severall engines to parochiall priests in their severall places . a man with halfe an eye may see that here are many things to be proved . thus their first church is nationall , which is distributed into severall greater portions termed provinces , those againe into others , now called diocesses , and those againe subdivided into parochiall or particular congregations . now the vnion of this church consisteth in the due observance of the same worship specifically by all the members of it , and subjection according to rules of their own appointment ( which were called commonly canons ) by way of distinction unto the rulers before mentioned in their severall capacities . and this is that , which is the peculiar forme of this church . that of the church catholick absolutely so called is its vnity with christ , and in its selfe by the one spirit , whereby it is animated . that of the church catholick visibly professing , the unity of the faith , which they doe professe , as being by them professed . that of a particular church as such , its observance , and performance of the same ordinances of worship numerically , in the confession of the same faith , and subjection to the same rules of love for edification of the whole . of this nationall , as it is called , in the subjection of one sort of officers unto another , within a precinct limited originally , wholy on an account forraigne to any church state whatever . so that it is not called the church of england , from its participation of the nature of the catholick church , on the account of its most noble members ; nor yet from its participation of the nature of the invisible church in the world , on the account of its profession of the truth ; in both which respects we professe our unity with it ; nor yet from its participation of the nature of a particular church , which it did not in its selfe , nor as such , but in some of its particular congregations ; but from a peculiar forme of its owne , as above described , which is to be proved to be of the institution of jesus christ . in this description given of their church state , with whom we have now to doe ; i have purposely avoided the mention of things odious & exposed to common obloquy which yet were the very ●ies & ligaments of their order , because the thing , as it is in its selfe being nakedly represented , we may not be prejudiced , in judging of the strength and utmost of the charge , that lyes against any of us , on the account of a departure from it . the communion of this church they say we have forsaken , and broken its vnity , and therefore are schismaticks . i answer in a word , laying aside so much of the iurisdiction of it mentioned before , and the severall ways of its administration , for which there is no colour or pretence that it should relate to any gospell institution ; passe by also the consideration of all those things which the men , enjoying authority in , or exercising the pretended power of this church , did use all their authority and power to injoyne and establish , which we judge evill ; let them prove that such a nationall church , as would remaine with these things pared off , that is in its best estate imaginable , was ever instituted by christ , or the apostles in his name in all the things of absolute necessity to its being & existence , and i will confesse my self to be what they please to say of me . that there was such an order in things relating to the worship of god established by the law of the land , in and over the people thereof , that the worship pleaded for was confirmed by the same law , that the rulers mentioned had power , being by the magistrate assembled to make rules and canons to become binding to the good people of the common wealth , when confirmed by the supreame a●thority of the nation , and not else ; that penaltys were appointed to the disturbers of this order by the same law , i grant . but that any thing of all this , as such , that is , as a part of this whole , or the whole it selfe , was instituted by the will and appointment of jesus christ , that is denyed . let not any one think , that because we deny the constitution pleaded about , to have had the stamp of the authority of iesus christ that therefore we pulled it down and destroyed it by violence . it was set up before we were borne , by them who had power to make laws to bind the people of this nation , and we found men in an orderly legall possession of that power , which exerting its selfe severall wayes , maintained and preserved that constitution , which we had no call to eradicate . only whereas they tooke upon them to act in the name of christ also , and to interpose their orders , and authority in the things of the worship of god , we entreated them , that we might passe our pilgrimage quietly in our native country ( as israel would have gone through the land of edonie , without the disturbance of its inhabitants ) and worship god acording to the light which he had gratiously imparted to us , but they would not hearken . but herein also was it our duty to keep the word of christs patience . their removall , and the dissolution of this nationall church , arose , and was carryed on , as hath been declared , by other hands , on other acounts . now it is not to any purpose , to plead the authority of the church , for many of the institutions mentioned : for neither hath any church power , or can have , to institute and appoint the things , whereby it is made to be so ; as these things are the very forme of the church , that we plead about ; nor hath any church any authority , but what is answerable to its nature : if it selfe be of a civill prudentiall constitution , its authority also is civill and no more . denying their church in that forme of it , which makes it such , to be of the institution of christ ; it cannot be expected that we should grant , that it is , as such , invested with any authority from christ , so that the dissolution of the vnity of this church , as it had its rise on such an account , proceeded from an alteration of the humane constitution , whereon it was built ; and how that was done , was before declared . then let them prove , 1. that ordinary officers are before the church , and that in ecclesia instituta , as well as instituendâ , which must be the foundation of their work : ( we confesse extraordinary officers were before the church , not considering the way of mens coming to be joyned in such societies ; was it possible it should be otherwise ? but as for ordinary officers , they were an exurgency from a church , and serve to the completion of it . act. 14. 23 , 24. tit. 1. 5. ) 2. that christ hath appointed any nationall officers , with a plenitude of ordinary power , to be imparted , communicated , and distributed to other recipient subjects , in severall degrees within one nation , and not elsewhere . i mean such an officer or officers , who in the first instance of their power , should on their own single account relate unto a whole nation . 3. that he hath instituted any nationall church , as the proper correlatum of such an officer ; concerning which also i desire to be informed , whether a catalogue of those he hath so instituted , be to be obtained ; or their number be left indefinite ? whether they have limits and bounds prescribed to them by him , or are left to be commensurate to the civill dominion of any potentate , and so to enjoy , or suffer the providentiall enlargements or straights , that such dominions are continually subject unto ? whether we had seven churches here in england , during the heptarchy of the saxons , and one in wales or but one in the whole ? if seven , how they came to be one ? if but one , why those of england , scotland , and ireland , were not one also ; especially since they have been under one civill magistrate ? or whether the difference of the civill laws of these nations be not the only cause , that these are three churches ? and if so , whether from thence any may not discerne whereon the vnity of the church of england doth depend ? briefely , when they have proved metropolitan , diocesan bishops in a firstnesse of power , by the institution of christ , a nationall church by the same institution in the sence pleaded for ; a firstnesse of power in the nationall officers of that nationall church to impose a forme of worship upon all being within that nation by the same institution , which should containe the bond of the vnion of that church ; also that every man , who is borne , and in his infancy babtized in that nation , is a member of that nationall church by the same institution , and shall have distinguished clearly in and about their administrations , and have told us that they counted to be of ecclesiasticall power , and what they grant to be a meere emanation of the civill government of the nation , we will then treat with them about the businesse of schisme . untill then , if they tell us , that we have forsaken the church of england in the sence pleaded for by them ; i must answer , that which is wanting cannot be numbred . it is no crime to depart from nothing ; we have not left to be that , which we never were ; which may suffice both us and them , as to our severall respective concernments of conscience and power . it hath been from the darknesse of men , and ignorance of the scriptures , that some have taken advantage to set up a product of the prudence of nations , in the name of jesus christ , and on that account to require the acceptance of it . when the tabernacle of god is againe well fixed amongst men , these shaddows will fly away : in the mean time we owe all these disputes , with innumerable other evills , to the apostacy of the roman combination , from which we are farre as yet from being cleerly delivered . i have one thing more to adde upon the whole matter , and i shall proceed to what is lastly to be considered . the church of england as it is called , ( that is , the people thereof ) separated herselfe from the church of rome . to free herselfe from the imputation of schisme , in so doing , as shee ( that is , the learned men of the nation ) pleaded the errours and corruptions of that church , under this especiall consideration of their being imposed by tyranny ; so also by professing her designe to be nothing , but to reduce religion , and the worship of god , to its originall purity , from which it was fallen . and we all joyntly justify both her and all other reformed churches in this plea. in her designe to reduce religion to its primitive purity , shee alwayes professed , that shee did not take her direction from the scripture only , but also from the councells and examples of the four or five first centuries , to which she laboured to conforme her reformation . let the question now be , whether there be not corruptions in this church of england , supposing such a nationall state to be instituted . what i beseech you shall bind my conscience to acquiesce in what is pleaded from the 4 or 5 first centuries consisting of men , that could , and did erre ; more then that did hers , which was pleaded from the 9. or 10. centuries following ? have not i liberty to call for reformation according to the scripture only ? or at least to professe that my conscience cannot be bound to any other ? the summe is , the businesse of schisme from the church of england , is as a thing built purely and simply on politicall considerations so interwoven with them , so influenced from them , as not to be separated . the famous advice of moecenas to augustus mentioned in diocassias , is the best authority i know against it . before we part with this consideration ; i must needs prevent one mistake , which perhaps in the mind of some may arise upon the preceding discourse : for whereas sundry ordinances of the worship of god are rightly to be administred only in a church and ministers doe evidently relate thereunto , the denying of a nationall church state seemes to deny that we had either ministers or ordinances here in england . the truth is , it seemes so to doe , but it doth not ; unlesse you will say , that unlesse shee be a nationall church state , there is no other ; which is too absurd for any one to imagine . it followes indeed , that there were no nationall church officers , that there were no ordinances numerically the same to be administred in and to the nation at once , but that there was not another church state in england , and on the account thereof , ordinances truly administred by lawfull ministers it doth not follow . and now if by this discourse i only call this businesse to a review , by them who are concerned to assert this nationall church i am satifyed . that the church of england is a true church of christ , they have hitherto maintained against the romanists , on the account of the doctrine taught in it , & the successive ordination of its officers , through the church of rome its selfe , from the primitive times . about the constitution and nature of a nationall church , they have had with them no contention . therein the parties at variance were agreed the same grounds and principles , improved with a defence of the externall worship and geremonies established on the authority of the church they mannaged against the non-conformists , and separatists at home . but their chiefe strength against them , lay in arguments more forcible , which need not be repeated . the constitution of the church now impleaded , deserves as i said the review : hitherto it hath been unfurnished of any considerable defensative . 2. there is another way of constituting a nationall church , which is insisted on by some of our bretheren of the presbyterian way . this is , that such a thing should arise from the particular congregations , that are in the nation united by sundry associations and subordinations of assemblies in and by the representatives of those churches . so that though there cannot be an assembly of all the members of those churches in one place , for the performance of any worship of god ; nor is there any ordinance appointed by christ to be so celebrated in any assembly of them , ( which we suppose necessary to the constitution of a particular church ) yet there may be an assembly of the representatives of them all by severall elevations for some end and purpose . in this sence , a church may be called nationall , when all the particular congregations of one nation , living under one civill government , agreeing in doctrine and worship , are governed by their greater and lesser assemblies , ( jus divinum minist . anglic. p. 12 ) but i would be loath to exclude every man from being a member of the church in england , that is , from a share in the profession of the faith , which is owned and professed by the people of god in england ; who is not a member of a particular congregation . nor does subjection to our civill government and agreement on the same doctrine and worship specifically either joyntly or severally constitute one church as is known even in the judgement of these brethren . it is the last expression of lesser , and greater assemblies that must doe it ; but as to any such institution of christ , as a standing ordinance , sufficient to give vnity yea or denomination to a church , this is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and yet this alone is to be insisted on . for as was shewed before , the other things mentioned contribute nothing to the forme , nor vnion of such a church . it is pleaded , that there are prophesies and promises of a nationall church , that should be under the new testament , as ps . 32. 10 , 11 , 12. is : 2. 2. is . 10. 18 , 19 , 24 , 25. that it is foretold and promised that many whole nations shall be converted to the faith of the gospell , and thereby become the people of god , who before were no people , is granted ; but that their way of worship shall be by nationall churches governed by lesser and greater assemblys doth not appeare . and when the jewes shall be converted , they shall be a nationall church , as england is : but their way of worship shall be regulated according to the institution of christ in the gospell . and therefore the publishers of the life of dr gouge have expressed his judgement found in a paper in his study , that the jewes on their calling shall be gathered together into churches , and not be scattered , as now they are . a nation may be said to be converted , from the professed subjection to the gospell of so many in it , as may give demonstration to the whole : but the way of worship for those so converted , is peculiarly instituted . it is said moreover , that the severall congregations in one city , are called a church , as in hierusalem act. 6. 1. act. 12 , 1 , 3. act. 15. 14 , 22. so also may all the churches in a nation be called a nationall church . but this is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; nor is that allowed to be made a medium in another case , which at the same time is sub iudice in its own . the like also may be said of the church of ephesus , act. 20. 17. rev. 2. 1. nor is it about a meer denomination that we contend ; but the vnion & forme of such a church : and if more churches then one were together called a church , it is from their participation of the nature of the generall visible church , not of that which is particular , and the seate of ordinances . so where paul is said to persecute the church of god gal. 1. 13. it is spoken of the professors of the faith of christ in generall , and not to be restrained to the churches of iudaea of whom he speakes v. 22 , 23. seeing his rage actually reached to damascus a city of another nation act. 22. 5 , 6. and his desigue was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that by the church mentioned 1 cor. 12. 28. 1 cor. 10. 32. eph. 3. 21. is intended the whole visible church of christ , as made up into one body or church , by a collection of all particular churches in the world by lesser and greater assemblies , ( a thing that never was in the world , nor ever will be ) is denyed and not yet by any that i know proved ; not that i am offended at the name of the church of england , though i think all professors as such , are rather to be called so , then all the congregations . that all professors of the truth of the gospell , throughout the world , are the visible church of christ , in the sence before explained , is granted . so may on the same account all the professors of that truth in england , be called the church of england . but it is the institution of lesser and greater assemblies , comprising the representatives of all the churches in the world , that must give being and union to the visible church in the sence pleaded for throughout the world , or in this nation , & that bounded to this relation by vertue of the same institution , that is to be proved . but of what there is , or seemes to be of divine institution in this order and fabrick , what of humane prudent creation , what in the matter , or manner of it , i cannot assent unto , i shall not at present enter into the consideration ; but shall only as to my purpose in hand , take up some principles , which lye in common between the men of this perswasion and my selfe , with some others otherwise minded . now of these are the ensuing assertions . 1. no man can possibly be a member of a nationall church in this sense , but by vertue of his being a member of some particular church in the nation ; which concurrs to the making up of the nationall church . as a man doth not legally belong to any county in the nation , unlesse he belong to some hundred or parish in that county ; this is evident from the nature of the thing it self , nor is it pleaded , that we are one nationall church , because the people of the nation are generally baptized , and doe professe the true faith , but because the particular congregations in it are ruled , and so consequently the whole , by lesser and greater assemblies . i suppose it will not be on second thoughts insisted on , that particular congregations , agreeing solemnely in doctrine and worship under one civill government , doe constitute a nationall church ; for if so , its forme and unity as such , must be given it meerly by the civill government . 2. no man can recede from this church , or depart from it , but by departing from some particular church therein . at the same door that a man comes in , he must goe out . if i cease to be a member of a nationall church , it is by the ceasing or abolishing of that , which gave me originall right thereunto , which was my relation to the particular church , whereof i am . 3. to make men members of any particular church or churches , their owne consent is required . all men must admit of this , who allow it free for a man to choose where he will fix his habitation . 4. that as yet , at least since possibly we could be personally concerned who are now alive , no such church in this nation hath been formed . it is impossible , that a man should be guilty of offending against that , which is not : we have not separated from a nationall church in the presbyterian sence , as never having seen any such thing ; unlesse they will say , we have separated from what should be . 5. as to the state of such a church as this , i shall only adde to what hath been spoken before , the judgement of a very learned and famous man in this case , whom i the rather name , because professedly engaged on the presbyterians side . it is moses amyraldus the present professor of divinity a● saumur , whose words are these that follow . scio nonnunquam appellari particularē ecclesiam communionem , ac veluti confoederationem plurium ejusmodi societatum , quas vel ejufdem linguae usus , vel eadem rei-pub . forma ( the true spring of a nationall church ) unà cum ejusdem disciplinae regimine consociavit : sic appellatur ecclesia gallicana , anglicana , germanica particularis , ut distinguatur ab vniversali illa christianorum societate ; quae omnes christiani nominis nationes complectitur : at uti supra diximus , ecclesiae nomen non proprie convenire societati omnium christianorum , eo modo quo convenit particularibus christianorum coetibus ; sic consequens est , ut dicamus , ecclesiae nomen non competere in eam multarum ecclesiarum particularium consociationē eodem plane modo . vocetur ergo certe ecclesia●ū quae sunt in gallia communio inter ipsas , & ecclesia si ecclesia , est multarum ecclesiarum confoederatio non si nomen ecclesiae ex usu scripturae sacrae accipiatur . paulus enim varias ecclesias particulares , quae erant in achaia , ecclesia achaiae nuncupat , non ecclesiam achajae vel ecclesiam achaicam . amyral . disput . de ecclesiae nom. & defin. thes . 28. these being , if i mistake not , things of mutuall acknowledgenent . ( for i have not laid down any principles peculiar to my selfe , and those with whom i consent in the way of the worship of god , which yet we can justly plead in our own defence ) this whole businesse will be brought to a speedy issue . only i desire the reader to observe , that i am not pleading the right , liberty and duty of gathering churches in such a state of professors , as that of late , and still amongst us , which is built on other principles , and hypotheses , then any as yet i have had occasion to mention ; but am only in generall considering the true notion of schisme , and the charge mannaged against us on that single account , which relates not to gathering of churches , as simply considered ; i say then 1. either we have been members by our own voluntary consent , according to the mind of christ , of some particular congregations in such a nationall church , & that as de facto part of such a church or we have not ? if we have not been so , ( as it is most certaine we have not ) then we have not as yet broken any bond , or violated any vnity , or disturbed any peace , or order of the appointment of jesus christ ; so that whatever of trouble or division hath followed on our way , and walking , is to be charged on them who have turned every stone , to hinder us our liberty . and i humbly begge of them , who acting on principles of reformation according to the ( commonly called ) presbyterian platforme , doe accuse us for separation from the church of england that they would seriously consider what they intend thereby ? is it that we are departed from the faith of the people of god in england ? they will not sustaine any such crimination : is it that we have forsaken the church of england as under its episcopall constitution ? have they not done the same ? have they not rejected their nationall officers , with all the bonds , tyes and ligaments of the union of that pretended church ? have they not renounced the way of worship , established by the law of the land ? doe they not disavow all obedience to them who were their legall superiours in that constitution ? doe they retaine either matter or forme , or any thing , but that naked name of that church ? and will they condemne others in what they practise themselves ? as for a church of england , in their new sence , ( which yet in some respects is not new but old ) for what is beyond a voluntary consociation of particular churches , we have not as yet , had experience of it . that we shall be accused of schisme , for not esteeming our selves made members of a particular church against our wills , by buying or hireing an habitation within such a precinct of ground , we expect not ; especicially considering what is delivered by the chiefe leaders of them , with whom now we are treating , whose words are as followeth we grant , that living in parishes is not sufficient to make a man a member of a particular church . a turk , or pagan , or id●later may live within the precincts of a parish , and yet be no member of a church . a man must therefore in order of nature , be a member of the church visible , and then living in a parish , and making profession of christianity may claime admission into the society of christians within those bounds , and enjoy the priviledges and ordinances which are there dispensed . ans of cammil p. 105. this is also pursued by the authors of jus divinum ministerii anglicani p 9 , 10. whereafter the repetition of the words first mentioned , they adde that all that dwell in a parish and constantly heare the word , are not yet to be admitted to the sacraments , which excludes them from being fideles , or church members and makes them at best as the catechumeni of old , who were never esteemed members of the church . if we have been so members by our own voluntary consent , and doe not continue so to be ; then this congregation whereof we were so members was reformed according to the mind of christ ( for i speak now to them that own reformation , as to their light ) or it was not . if it were reformed , and that a man were a member of it so reformed by his own voluntary consent , i confesse it may be difficult how a man can leave such a congregation without their consent , in whose power it is to give it to him , without giving offence to the church of god. only i say , let all by-respects be layd aside , on the one hand , and the other , all regard to repute and advantage , let love have its perfect worke , and no church knowing the end of its being and constitution to be the edification of believers , will be difficult and tenacious as to the granting a dismission to any member whatever , that shall humbly desire it ; on the account of applying himselfe to some other congregation , wherein he supposes and is perswaded that he may be more effectually built up in his most holy faith. i confesse this to be a case of the greatest difficulty , that presents it selfe to my thoughts in this businesse . suppose a man to be a member of a particular church , and that church to be a true church of christ , and granted so by this person , and yet upon the account of some defect , which is in , or at least he is convinced and perswaded to be in that church , whose reformation he cannot obtaine , he cannot abide in that church to his spirituall advantage and edification : suppose the church on the other side cannot be induced to consent to his secession and relinquishment of its ordinary externall communion , and that person is hereby intangled ; what course is to be taken ? i professe for my part , i never knew this case fall out , wherein both parties were not blamable . the person seeking to depart , in making that to be an indispensable cause of departure from a church , which is farre short of it ; and the church in not condescending to the mans desire , though proceeding from infirmity , or temptation . in generall , the rule of forbearance and condescension in love , which should salve the difference , is to give place to the rule of obeying god in all things according to our light . and the determining in this case , depending on circumstances in great variety , both with reference to the church offending , and the person offended . he that can give one certaine rule in , and upon the whole , shall have much praise for his invention . however i am sure this cannot be rationally objected by them , who esteeming all parishes , as such , to be churches , doe yet allow men on such occasions to change their habitations , and consequently their church relations men may be relieved by change of dwelling , subcom . of div. p. 52. and when a mans leaving the ordinary externall communion , of any particular church for his own edification to joyne with another whose administrations he is perswaded in some things more , or fewer , are carryed on more according to the minde of christ , is as such proved to be schisme , i shall acknowledge it . as then the not giving a mans selfe up unto any way , and submitting to any establishment pretended , or pleaded to be of christ , which he hath not light for , and which he was not by any act of his own formerly engaged in , cannot with any colour or pretence of reason be reckoned unto him for schisme , though he may , if he persist in his refuseall , prejudice his own edification ; so no more can a mans peaceable relinquishment of the ordinary communion of one church in all its relations , to joyne with another , be so esteemed . for instance of the first case ; suppose by the law of this nation the severall par●chiall churches of the land , according to arbitrary distributions made of them , should be joyned in classicall associations , and those againe in the like arbitrary disposall into provinciall , and so onward ; ( which cannot be done without such interveniences as will exonerate conscience from the weight of pure institution : ) or suppose this not to be done by the law of the land , but by the voluntary consent of the officers of the parochiall churches , and others joyning with them ; the saints of god in this nation , who have not formerly been given up unto , or disposed of , in this order , by their own voluntary consent , nor are concerned in it any farther , then by their habitation within some of these different precincts , that by publick authority , or consent of some amongst them , are combined as above : nor do believe such ass●ciations to be the institutions of christ , whatever they prove to be in the issue ; i say they are by their dissent and refusall to subject themselves to this order , not in the least liable to the charge of schisme ; whatever they are , who neglecting the great duty of love , and forbearance , would by any means whatever impose upon them a necessity of so doing . for besides what they have to plead , as to the non-institution of any such ordinary associations , & investiture of them with power and authority in , and over the churches , they are not guilty of the disturbance of any order , wherein they were stated according to the minde of christ : nor of the neglect of any duty of love , that was incumbent on them . for the latter ; suppose a man stated in a particular church , wherewith he hath walked for a season ; he discovers that some perhaps of the principles of its constitution are not according to to the minde of christ , something is wanting or redundant , and imposed in practice on the members of it , which renders the communion of it , by reason of his doubts and scruples , or it may be cleare convictions , not so usefull to him , as he might rationally expect it would be , were all things done according to the minde of christ ; that also he hath declared his judgement as he is able , and dissatisfaction ; if no reformation doe ensue , this person i say is doubtlesse at liberty to dispose of himselfe , as to particular church communion , to his own best advantage . but now suppose this congregation whereof a man is supposed to be a member , is not reformed , will not , nor cannot reforme it selfe ; ( i desire that it may be minded with whom i have to do , viz. those , who own a necessity of reformation , as to the administration of ordinances , in respect to what hath been hitherto observed in most parochiall assemblyes . ) those i have formerly dealt withall are not be imposed on with this principle of reformation : they acknowledge none to be needfull ; but they are not concerned in our present enquiry . their charge lyes all in the behalfe of the church of england , not of particular assemblyes or parishes , which it is not possible that according to their principle , they should own for churches , or account any separation from any of them to be balme worthy , but only as it respecteth the constitutions of the church nationall in them to be observed . if any claime arise on that hand , as to parochiall assemblyes , i should take liberty to examine the foundation of the plea , and doubt not , but that i may easily frustrate their attempts . but this is not my present businesse ; i deale , as i said , with them , who own reformation ; and i now suppose of the congregation , whereof a man is supposed to be a member on any account whatever , not to be reformed . in this case i aske , whether it be schisme or no , for any number of men to reforme themselves , by reducing the practice of worship to its originall institution , though they be the minor part lying within the parochiall precinct ; or for any of them to joyne themselves with others for that end and purpose not living within those precincts . i shall boldly say , this schisme is commanded by the holy ghost , 1 tim. 6. 5. 2 tim. 3. 5. hos . 4. 15. is this yoke laid upon me by christ , that to goe along with the multitude where i live , that hate to be reformed , i must forsake my duty , and despise the priviledges , that he hath purchased for me with his owne precious blood ? is this an unity of christs institution , that i must for ever associate my selfe with wicked and prophane men in the worship of god , to the unspeakable detriment and disadvantage of my own soule ? i suppose nothing can be more unreasonable , then once to imagine any such thing . however , not to derive this businesse any farther , but to put it to its proper issue . when it is proved , that this is the will and appointment of jesus christ , that every believer , who liveth within such a precinct allotted by civill constitutions , wherein the people or inhabitants do , or may usually meet for the celebration of the worship of god , or which they have light for , on any account whatever doe make profession of , how prophane soever that part of them be from whom the whole is denominated , how corrupt soever in their worship , how dead soever , as to the power of godlinesse , must abide with them and joyne with them in the administration and worship , and that indispensably ; this businesse may come againe under debate . in the meane time , i suppose the people of god are not in any such subjection . i speake not this , as laying down this for a principle , that it is the duty of every man to separate from that church , wherein evill and wicked men are tollerated ( though that opinion , must have many other attendances , before it can contract the least affinity with that of the same sound , which was condmned in the donatists ) but this only i say , that where any church is over borne by a multitude of men wicked and prophane ; so that it cannot reforme it selfe , or will not according to the minde of christ , a believer is so farre at liberty , that he may desert the communion of that society , without the least guilt of schisme . but this state of things is now little pleaded for . it is usually objected about the church of corinth , that there was in it many disorders and enormous miscarriages , divisions , and breaches of love : miscarriages through drink at their meetings ; grosse sins in the incestuous person tolerated ; false doctrine broached ; the resurrection denyed ; and yet paul advises no man to separate from it , but all to performe their duty in it . but how little our present plea & defensative is concerned in this instance , supposed to ly against it , very few considerations will evince . 1. the church of corinth was undoubtedly a true church , lately instituted according to the minde of christ , and was not fallen from that priviledge by any miscarriage , nor had suffered any thing destructive to its being ; which wholy differences between the case proposed in respect of many particulars , and the instance produced . we confesse the abuses , and evills mentioned had crept into the church , and doe thence grant , that many abuses may doe so into any of the best of the churches of god. nor did it ever enter into the heart of any man to think , that so soon as any disorders fall out , or abuses creep into it , it is instantly the duty of any to fly out of it , like pauls mariners out of the ship , when the storme grew hazardous . it being the duty of all the members of such a church untainted with the evills and corruptions of it , upon many accounts to attempt and labour the remedie of those disorders , and rejection of these abuses to the uttermost ; which was that , which paul advised the corinthians all and some unto , in obedience whereunto they were recovered . but yet this i say , had the church of corinth continued in the condition before prescribed , that notorious , scandalous sinnes had went unpublished , unreproved , drunkennesse continued , and practised in the assemblies , men abiding by the denyall of the resurrection , so overturning the whole gospell , and the church refusing to do her duty , and exercise her authority to cast all those disorderly persons upon their obstinacy out of her communion ; it had been the duty of every saint of god in that church , to have withdrawn from it , to come out from among them , and not to have been partaker of their sinnes , unlesse they were willing to partake of their plague also ; which on such an apostacy would certainly ensue . i confesse austin in his single booke against the donatists , post collationem , cap. 20. affirmes , that elijah and elisha communicated with the israelites in their worship , when they were so corrupted , as in their dayes , and separated not from their sacraments ( as he calls them , ) but only withdrew sometimes for feare of persecution ; a mistake unworthy so great and wise a person as he was . the publick worship of those 10 tribes in the dayes of those prophets was idolatrous , erected by jeroboam , confirmed by a law , by omri , and continued by ahab . that the prophets joyned with them in it , is not to be imagined . but earnestnesse of desire for the attaining of any end , sometimes leaves no roome for the examination of the medium's , offering their service to that purpose . let us now see the sum of the whole matter and what it is that we plead for our discharge as to this crime of schisme , allowing the terme to passe in its large and usuall acceptation , receding for the sake of the truths farther ventilation from the precise propriety of the word annexed to it in the scripture : the summe is , we have broken no bond of vnity , no order instituted or appointed by jesus christ , have causelessly deserted no station , that ever we were in , according to his mind , which alone can give countenance to an accusation of this nature . that on pure grounds of conscience we have withdrawn , or doe withhold our selves from partaking in some wayes , engaged into upon meer grounds of prudence we acknowledge . and thus from what hath been said , it appeares in what a faire capacity notwithstanding any principle or practice owned by us , we are to live peaceably , and to exercise all fruits of love towards those who are otherwise minded . there is not the least necessity on us , may we be permitted to serve god according to our light , for the acquitting our selves from the charge , which hath made such a noise in the world , to charge other men , with their failings , great , or small , in or about the ways and worship of god. this only is incumbent on us , that we manifest , that we have broken no bond , no obligation , or tye to communion , which lay upon us by the will & appointment of jesus christ our lord , and master : what is prudentially to be done in such a nation as this , in such a time as this , as to the worship of god , we will treate with men at farther leisure , and when we are lawfully called thereto . it may be some will yet say , ( because it hath been often said ) there is difference between reforming of churches already gathered and raised , and raising of churches out of meer materialls . the first may be allowed , but the latter tends to all manner of confusion . i have at present , not much to say to this objection , because as i conceive , it concernes not the businesse we have in hand : nor would i have mentioned it at all ; but that it s insisted on by some on every turne , whether suited for the particular cause , for which it is produced , or no. in briefe then . 1. i know no other reformation of any church , or any thing in a church , but the reducing of it to its primitive institution , and the order allotted to it by jesus christ . if any plead for any other reformation of churches , they are in my judgement to blame . and when any society , or combination of men , ( whatever hitherto it hath been esteemed ) is not capable of such a reduction and renovation . i suppose i shall not provoke any wise and sober person , if i professes i cannot look on such a society , as a church of christ , and thereupon advise those therein , who have a due right to the priviledges purchased for them by christ , as to gospell administrations , to take some other peaceable course to make themselves partakers of them . 2. were i fully to handle the things pointed to in this objection , i must mannage principles , which in this discourse i have not been occasioned to draw forth at all , or to improve . many things of great weight and importance must come under debate and consideration , before a cleare account can be given of the case stated in this objection ; as 1. the true nature of an instituted church under the gospell , as to the matter , forme , and all other necessary constitutive causes , is to be investigated and found out . 2. the nature , and forme of such a church is to be exemplifyed from the scripture , and the stories of the first churches , before sensibly infested with the poyson of that apostacy which ensued . 3. the extent of the apostacy under antichrist , as to the ruining of instituted churches , making them to be babylon , and their worship fornication , is duely and carefully to be examined . hic labor , hoc opus . here lyes our disorder and division ; hence is our darknesse and pollution of our garments , which is not an easy thing to free our selves of ; though we may arise , yet we shall not speedily shake our selves out of the dust . 4. by what way and meanes god begat anew and kept alive his elect , in their severall generations , when antichristian darknesse covered the earth ; and thick darknesse the nations , supposing an intercision of instituted ordinances , so farre as to make a nullity in them , as to what was of simple and pure institution ; what way might be used for the fixing the tabernacle of god againe with men , and the setting up of church worship according to his minde , and will. and here the famous case of the united brethren of bohemia would come under consideration ; who concluding the whole papacy to be purely antichristian , could not allow of the ordination of their ministers by any in communion with it ; and yet being perswaded of a necessity of continuing of that ordinance in a way of succession , sent some to the greek and armenian churches , who observing their wayes returned with little satisfaction ; so that at the last committing themselves , and their cause to god , they chose them elders from among themselves , and set them apart by fasting and prayer ; which was the foundation of all those churches , which for piety , zeale , and suffering for christ , have given place to none in europe . what was the way of the first reformation in this nation , and what principles the godly learned men of those daies proceeded on , how farre , what they did may be satisfactory to our consciences , at the present , as to our concurrence in them , who from thence have the truth of the gospell derived downe to us , whether ordinary officers be before or after the church , and so whether a church state is preserved in the preservation of officers , by a power forraigne to that church , whereof they are so ; or the office be preserved , and consequently the officers , inclusively in the preservation , and constitution of a church . these i say , with sundry other things of the like importance , with inferences from them , are to be considered to the bottome , before a full resolution can be given to the enquiry coucht in this objection , which , as i said , to do , is not my present businesse . this taske then is at its issue and close ; some considerations of the manifold miscarriages that have insued for want of a due and right apprehension of the thing we have now been exercised in the consideration of , shall shut it up . it is not impossible , that some may , from what hath been spoken , begin to apprehend , that they have been too hasty in judging other men . indeed none are more ready to charge highly , then those who when they have so done , are most unable to make good their charge ; si accusasse sufficiat , quis erit innocens ? what reall schismes in a morall sense have ensued among brethren , by their causelesse mutuall imputation of schisme in things of institution , is knowne . and when men are in one fault , and are charged with another , wherein they are not , it is a ready way to confirme them in that , wherein they are . there is more darknesse and difficulty in the whole matter of instituted worship , then some men are aware of : not that it was so from the beginning , whilst christianity continued in its naked simplicity : but it is come occasionally upon us by the customes , darknesse and invincible prejudices , that have taken hold on the minds of men by a secret diffusion of the poyson of that grand apostacy . it were well then , that men would not be so confident , nor easily perswaded , that they presently know how all things ought to be , because they know how they would have some things to be , which suite their temper and interest . men may easily perhaps see , or think they see , what they doe not like , and crie out schisme and separation , but if they would a little consider what ought to be in this whole matter ; according to the mind of god , and what evidences they have of the grounds and principles , whereon they condemne others , it might make them yet swift to heare , but slow to speake , and take off from the number of teachers among us ; some are readie to think , that all that joyne not with them are schismaticks ; and they are so , because they goe not with them , and other reason they have none : being unable to give any solid foundation : of what they professe ; what the cause of unity among the people of god , hath suffered from this sort of men , is not easily to be expressed . 2. in all differences about religion to drive them to their rise and spring , and to consider them as stated originally , will ease us of much trouble and labour . perhaps many of them will not appeare so formidable , as they are represented . he that sees a great river , is not instantly to conclude that all the water in it comes from its first rise & spring ; the addition of many brookes showers and landfloods , have perhaps swelled it to the condition wherein it is : every difference in religion is not to be thought to be as big at its rise , as it appeares to be when it hath passed through many generations , and hath received additions and aggravations from the disputings and contendings of men , on the one hand , and the other , ingaged . what a flood of abominations doth this businesse of schisme seem to be , as rolling down tous through the writings of cyprian , austin , and optatus of old : the schoolemen , decrees of popish councells with the contrivances of some , among our selves , concerned to keep up the swelled notion of it ! goe to its rise , and you will find it to be , though bad enough , yet quite another thing , then what by the pre●udices accrewing by the addition of so many generations , it is now generally represented to be . the great maxime , to the law and to the testimonie , truly improved , would quickly cure all our distempers : in the meane time , let us blesse god , that though our outward man may possibly be disposed of , according to the apprehension that others have of what we doe , or are , our consciences are concerned only in what he hath appointed . how some men may prevaile against us , before whom we must stand or fall according to their corrupt notion of schisme , we know not : the rule of our consciences , in this , as in all other things , is eternall and unchangable . whilst i have an uncontrolable faithfull witnesse , that i transgresse no limits prescribed to me in the word , that i doe not willingly break , or dissolve any vnity of the institution of jesus christ , my minde as to this thing is filled with perfect peace . blessed be god , that hath reserved the sole soveraingty of our consciences in his hand , and not in the least parcelled it out to any of the sons of men , whose tender mercies being oftentimes cruelty it selfe , they would perhaps destroy the soule also , when they doe so to the body , seeing they stay there , as our saviour witnesseth , because they can proceed no farther ; here then i professe to rest ; in this doth my conscience acquiesce : whilst i have any comfortable perswasion , on grounds infallible , that i hold the head , and that i am by faith a member of the mysticall body of christ , whilst i make profession of all the necessary saving truths of the gospell , whilst i disturbe not the peace of that particular church , whereof by my own consent i am a member , nor doe raise up , nor continue in any causeles differences with them , or any of them , with whom i walke in the fellowship and order of the gospell , whilst i labour to exercise faith towards the lord jesus christ , and love towards all the saints , i doe keep the unity , which is of the appointment of christ ; and let men say , from principles utterly forraigne to the gospell , what they please , or can , to the contrary , i am no schismatick . 3. perhaps the discoverie , which hath been made , how little we are many of us concerned in that , which having mutually charged it on one another , hath been the greatest ball of strife , and most effectu-all engine of difference , and distance between us , may be a meanes to reconcile in love them that truely feare god , though engaged in severall wayes as to some particulars . i confesse i have not any great hope of much successe on this account ; for let principles and ways be made as evident , as if he that wrote them carryed the sunne in his hand ; yet whilst men are forestalled by prejudices , and have their affections , and spirits engaged suitably thereunto , no great alteration in their minde and wayes , on the clearest conviction whatever , is to be expected . all our hearts are in the hand of god ; and our expectations of what he hath promised , are to be proportioned to what he can effect , not to what of outward meanes , we see to be used . 4. to conclude ; what vaine janglings men are endlesly engaged in ; who will lay their own false hypotheses , and preconceptions , as a ground of farther procedure , is also in part evident , by what hath been delivered . hence ( for instance ) is that doubty dispute in the world ; whether a schismatick doth belong to the church , or noe ? which for the most part is determined in the negative ; when it is impossible a man should be so , but by vertue of his being a church member . a church is that alienum solum , wherein that evill dwelleth . the most of the enquiries that are made , and disputed on , whether this or that sort of men belongs to the church or no ? are of the same value and import . he belongs to the church catholick , who is united to christ by the spirit , and none other : and he belongs to the church generall visible , who makes profession of the faith of the gospell , and destroyes it not by any thing of a just inconsistency with the beliefe of it : and he belongs to a particular church , who having been in a due order joyned thereunto , hath neither voluntarily deserted it , nor been judicially ejected out of it . thus one may be a member of the church catholick , who is no member of the generall visible church , nor of a particular church , as an elect infant , sanctifyed from the womb , dying before baptisme ; and one may be a member of the church generall visible , who is no member of the church catholick , nor of a particular church , as a man making profession of the true faith , yet not united to christ by the spirit , nor joyned to any particular visible church ; or he may be also of the catholick church , and not of a particular ; as also of a particular church ; and not of the catholick . and a man may , every true believer walking orderly , ordinarily is a member of the church of christ in every sence insisted on : of the catholick church , by a union with christ the head ; of the visible generall church , by his profession of the faith , and of a particular congregation , by his voluntary assotiating himselfe therewith , according to the will and appointment of our lord jesus christ . finis . reader , in the authors absence many errors and mistakes obscuring or perverting the sence of the places where they are , have escaped the presse ; which thou art desired to correct according as here directed . pag. 2. l. 20. r. and , p. 3. l. 14. man. p. 5. l. 22. clamorous p. 7. l. 6. vobis , p. 9. l. 19. lutherans ; sacramentarian , p. 11. l. 21 establish it , p. 13. l. 8. conducingnesse , p. 15. l. 2. the present , p. 16. l. 12. yea i , p. 22. l. 18. his word p. 24. l. 8. scissure , p. 29. l. 18. extended , is of , p. 31. l. 17. unity of the , p. 36. l. 5. dele among , l. 13. metropolitans p. 39. l. 22. dele if , p. 42. l. 1. instructed by authority from their , p. 43. l. 2. & is not , p. 50. l. 26. that shall be pleased to consider , p. 54. l. 18. other promises , p. 60. l. 24. in the civil state to , p. 64. l. 22. our fore-fathers , p. 73. l. 13. dele of , l. 25. scriptures , p. 75. l. 7. nor are they not at all , l. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 38. l. 24. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 88. l. 1. dele sence v. 24. saith the apostle i fill up that , l. 12. repartees l. 21. church ; there is no promise made to the church , p. 90. l. 1. sence v. 24. saith the apostle i fill up that , p. 91 , l. 4. sion , p. 93. l. 10. that it hath an , p. 101. l. 13. dispute men , p. 102. l. 19. is in — ▪ p. 110. l. 28. moats p. 124. l. 28. juvenalis . p. 126. l. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 131. l. 20. hath been , p. 133. l. 18. summed up , p. 134. l. 15. men p. 146. l. 15. ad : judaeos , p. 155. l. ult . scripture , p. 160. l. 13. catholick church , p. 166. l. 20. their writing , l. 21. a sweet , p. 168. l. 28. have not only , p. 169. l. 24. begun , p. 172. l. 6. sport , l. 8. institutions , l. 9. language , p. 173. l. 18. gentlemen , p. 176. l. 15. do that , p. 180. l. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 185. l. 19. another , p. 186. l. 10. to its , p. 189. l. 2. athenaeus . l. 3. thrasilaus , p. 192. l. 13. patriarchs , or metropolitans , l. 29. conscience , p. 194. l. 13 , 14. are there p. 198. l. 15. scriptures , p. 199. l. 24 , 25. the gifts of his spirit . p. 200. l. 14. due to elders , p. 202. l. 7. those many churches p. 204. l. 1. it seemes , 205. l. 17. dele his , p. 215. l. 18. is the union enquired after , p. 216. l. 17. their sence , l. 21. dele the , p. 218. l. 2. a title , p. 229. l. 24. your severall , p. 234. l. 13. if i have , p. 236. l. 16. the unity consists , l. 25. visible church , p. 240. l. 21. nor conc : p. 242. l. 1. any man may , p. 244. l. 24. dele as , p. 245. l. 1. dio cassius l. 15. there be a , p. 247. l. 23. one civile , p. 256. l. 20. commit , p. 264. l. 2. drive , l. 10. or on any , l. 17. their administrations . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a90276-e100 §. 1. § 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14. §. 15. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . chronic. antioch . joh. male : p. 98. a. ms. bib. bod. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14. §. 15. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 20. §. 21. §. 22. §. 23. §. 24. §. 25. §. 26. §. 27. §. 28. §. 29. §. 30. §. 31. §. 32 §. 33. §. 34. §. 35. §. 36. §. 37. §. 38. §. 39. §. 40. §. 41. §. 42. §. 43. §. 44. §. 45. §. 46. §. 47. §. 48. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14. §. 15. §. 16. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 20. §. 21. §. 22. §. 23. §. 24. ille coetus christianorum qui solus in orbe clare● regeneratis est ecclesia ; solus coetus christianorum papae subditorum claret regeneratis ; ergo . prob . apud illas solos sunt qui miracula faciunt . ergo . val mag. deut. 13. 1 , 2. mat. 7. 22 , 23. exod. 3. 7. §. 25. §. 26. §. 27. §. 28. §. 29. §. 30. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14 ▪ §. 15. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 20. §. 21. §. 22. §. 23. §. 24. §. 25. §. 26. §. 27. §. 28. §. 29. §. 30. §. 31. §. 32. §. 33. §. 34. §. 35. §. 36. §. 3● . §. 38. §. 39. §. 40. §. 41 ▪ §. 42. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14. §. 15. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 20. §. 21. §. 22. §. 23. §. 24. §. 25. §. 26. §. 27. §. 28. §. 29. §. 30. § 31. §. 32. §. 33. §. 34. §. 35. §. 36. * si quis aut privatus , aut populus eorum decret●● non stetit , sacrificiis interdicunt . haec paena apud eos est gravissima ; quibus ita est interdictum , ii numero impiorum , & sceleratorum habentur , ab iis omnes decedunt , aditum eorum sermonemque defugiunt , ne quid ex contagione incommodi accipiant ; neque iis petentibus jus redditur , neque honos ullus communicatur : his autem omnibus dr●dibus praeest unus ; qui summam inter eos habet authoritatem : hoc mortus , si quis ex reliquis excellit dignitate , succedit : at si sunt plures , suffragio druidum adlegitur : nonnunquam etiam de principatu armis contendunt . caes . lib. 6. de bell. gal. §. 37. §. 38. §. 39. §. 40. §. 41. §. 42. §. 43. §. 44. §. 45. §. 46. §. 47. §. 48. §. 49. §. 50. §. 51. §. 52. §. 53. §. 54. §. 55. §. 56. §. 57. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14. §. 15. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 20. §. 21. §. 22. §. 23. §. 24. §. 25. §. 26. §. 27. §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 13. §. 14. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18. §. 19. §. 20 ▪ §. 21 ▪ §. 22. §. 23. §. 24. §. 25. §. 26. §. 27. §. 28. §. 29. §. 30. §. 31. §. 32. §. 33. §. 34. §. 35. §. 36. §. 37. §. 38. §. 39. §. 40. §. 41. §. 42. §. 43. §. 44. §. 45. §. 46. §. 47. §. 48. §. 49. §. 50. §. 51. §. 52. §. 53. §. 54. §. 55. §. 56. §. 57. §. 58. §. 59. §. 60. §. 62. §. 63. §. 64. §. 65 §. 66. §. 67. §. 68. mr. hales's treatise of schism examined and censured by thomas long ... ; to which are added, mr. baxter's arguments for conformity, wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered. long, thomas, 1621-1707. 1678 approx. 392 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 177 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a49123 wing l2974 estc r10056 13111358 ocm 13111358 97676 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a49123) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 97676) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 744:44) mr. hales's treatise of schism examined and censured by thomas long ... ; to which are added, mr. baxter's arguments for conformity, wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered. long, thomas, 1621-1707. baxter, richard, 1615-1691. mr. baxter's arguments for conformity against separation. [50], 296 p. printed for walter kettilby ..., london : 1678. marginal notes. added t.p. on p. [151]: mr. baxter's arguments for conformity against separation. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hales, john, 1584-1656. -tract concerning schisme and schismaticks. church of england. schism. 2005-07 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-07 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-08 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-08 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion ●mprimatur , gvil . jane . nov. 24. 1677. mr. hales's treatise of schism examined and censured . by thomas long , b. d. and prebendary of exeter . to which are added , mr. baxter's arguments for conformity , wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered . london , printed for walter kettilby at the bishop's head in st. paul's church-yard , 1678. mr. hales's tract of schism and schismaticks , ( printed by the original copy ) examined and censured . who is it can think to gain acceptance and credit with reasonable men , by opposing not only the present church conversing in earth , but the uniform consent of the church in all ages ? mr. hales in his miscellanies set forth by mr. garthwait , anno 1673. p. 260. london , printed for walter kettilby at the bishop's head in st. paul's church-yard , 1678. to the right reverend father in god thomas lord bishop of exeter . it was prophesied of our saviour , that the government should be upon his shoulders , is . 9. 6. and though he have devolved that burden upon mortal men , which is angelicis humeris formidandum , yet doth he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , put under his shoulder and help them to bear it , or they would soon sink under it . for however it fares with the church , whether it be under persecution , none are so much exposed to a fiery trial as they ; or whether it enjoy peace and plenty . pride and contention swels up some corrupt members to the daily vexation of their heads & governors . and how blameless soever their persons be , their office is made a crime . better things might have been expected from the author of the treatise hereafter considered , wherein there is so much contempt poured out upon the episcopal office , and on all church authority and administrations , that the ink is not more black than the calumny . but where should the impetus of discontent and faction vent it self , but against those rocks that are set by god himself to give check and bounds unto it ? now that in the apostles days this sacred order was appointed ( among other great ends ) as a remedy against schism , is acknowledged by such as are its reputed adversaries : in the church of alexandria from the time of st. mark the evangelist they were continued as a bulwork against schism , saith st. hierom in his epistle to evagrius . and in the church of corinth , when men begun to say , i am of paul and i of apollo , this office was appointed , that the seeds of schism might be taken away , saith the same father on the first chap. to titus . and he tells the luciferians in a dialogue with them , that unless an eminent and uninterrupted power be by all given to the chief pastors , there will be as many schisms as there are priests . in all this st. hierom followeth the more ancient fathers — passibus aequis , for ignatius advised the trallians to do nothing without their bishop . which advice he repeating again , tells them : it is not my word , but the word of god ; and if ye suspect me to say this , as understanding that there are divisions among you , he is my witness for whom i am in bonds , that it was not man , but the spirit that declared this to me . st. clemens in his epistle to the corinth . p. 57. says , that the apostles foreseeing that divisions would arise as christ had foretold , did establish bishops . and the 32. canon of the apostles ordained , that if any presbyter or deacon should make conventions without his bishop , he should be deposed . in the 4th . oecumenical council of calcedon consisting of 630. fathers , there was read an ancient canon of the council of antioch to this effect : if any presbyter or deacon contemning his bishop shall separate and erect another altar , and will not obey the bishop , calling him home once and again , we do utterly condemn such a one . which canon being read by aetius an arch-deacon , the fathers with one consent proclaimed this is a righteous canon of the holy fathers . in the second council of carthage by the eighth canon it was provided , that if any presbyter lifted up with pride should make a schism against his bishop , let him be accursed . but in defiance of all these canons and curses they have been accounted the only blessed men in our times , who have most vehemently decryed this holy order , and successfully maintained a faction against them . to whom , if they are yet capable of any counsel , i would commend the moderation of mr. calvin , who speaking of popish bishops , instit . l. 4. c. 10. s. 6. saith , if they were true bishops , i would yield them though not so much authority as they do require , yet as much as is requisite for the well-ordering of ecclesiastical government . and what he means by true bishops he explaineth , s. 1. the form of the ancient church sets before our eyes a pattern of the divine institution for the order of governing his church . for though the bishops of those times did set forth many canons , in which they seemed to express more than was expressed in the holy scripture ; yet they composed their whole oeconomy with such caution , according to that only rule of god's word , that you may easily perceive that they held nothing in this respect differing from the word of god. and in s. 4. he repeats the same : si rem intuemur , reperiemus veteres episcopos non alium regendae ecclesiae formam voluisse fingere ab eâ quam deus verbo suo praescripsit . with how much truth and reverence doth this learned man speak of those ancient bishops , of whom he says not only that they did not actually swerve from god's word as to their government , but that they would not . this candor is much wanting in such as pretend to be mr. calvin's disciples , with whom this sacred function and all its administrations are defamed as antichristian and popish , and a covenant for extirpating them root and branch is still pertinaciously adhered to . but though the authority of these men be despised , yet methinks that of our saviour who hath made them his ambassadors , ( and apostolus cujusque is est quisque ) and hath told us , luke 10. 16. he that heareth you , heareth me ; he that despiseth you , despiseth me , and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me ] should not be rejected , nor those severe penalties under which he exacts our obedience to his officers be slighted . for whoever will not hear the church , is to be accounted as a heathen or publican : and mark 6. 11. whosoever shall not receive you nor hear you — it shall be more tolerable for sodom and gomorrha in the day of judgment than for them . and though wicked men do securely despise the censures of the church , yet hath christ said , matth. 18. 18. of his officers , whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven ; which authority the church of god would not have exercised in the purest and most primitive times by so many and dreadful anathema's , if their great lord had not authorized them , or if they had not experienced the good effects of them . did the apostle in vain derive a power to the church of corinth , 1 epist ch . 5. v. 5. in the name of our lord jesus christ to deliver such a one ( as the incestuous person ) unto satan for the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of our lord jesus ? or can we think the records of the several churches in those first ages , which relate the divers painful and languishing distempers of body , as well as the anguish and trouble of mind , which seized on such as by the censures of the church were cast out of christian communion into the power of satan , to be false or forged ? the divine judgments which pursue such as in our times have been deservedly ejected , or do wilfully depart from the church-communion , who are for the most part given up to a reprobate sense , and being possessed with a spirit of giddiness and perversness do as cain run up and down from the presence of god in his publick worship , like vagabonds from one faction to another , till they fall into unnatural and diabolical practices , and straying from christ's fold are made a prey unto the devil , do evidently demonstrate that the church-censures are not bruta fulmina , but have powerful effects for the conversion or confusion of contumacious offenders . but non tali auxilio , that sacred function which your lordship sustains in our church needs not so weak an apology as i can make for it . i have only endeavoured ( as i was able ) to silence the reproaches and contradictions of unreasonable men , by whose strivings the burden of government , which of it self is weighty enough , is made to sit more uneasie on the shoulders of our spiritual guides . against whom , it is no difficult work to maintain that assertion of dr. hammond in his answer to the catholick gentleman , p. 134. that as long as any particular bishop remains in due subordination to his canonical superiors , so long the departure of any clergy-man that is under his jurisdiction from that obedience which canonically he owes to him , is in him that is thus guilty of it an act of schism . but this comes not now under consideration . my present endeavours i do lay at your lordships feet , as an acknowledgment of that great happiness which we of your lordships diocess do injoy under your government ; in which , authority and meekness , candor and courage , piety and prudence are so duly tempered , that though each of them be visible , yet it is hardly discernable which is most prevalent . that free and favourable access which your lordship hath vouchsafed me in more private concerns , hath incouraged me to this publick address for the service of the church , hoping that the work may find the like gracious acceptance as the author hath : both which , as they really need , so they humbly beg your lordships pardon and protection , which will be a sufficient sanctuary against all adversaries of the truths which he defends , and therein of exon , new-years day , 1677. your lordships most humble and obedient servant , tho. long . when all other arguments have failed , to cut the gordian knot of our present peace and unity in pieces . it is my endeavour by the following exercitations to take this sword out of the enemies hands , or at least to blunt the edge of it , and make it unserviceable to evil designs . when i first apprehended it , i only let it fall on the anvil by its own weight , and every one may perceive how it yielded to that gentle examination : wherefore i was encouraged by a severer censure to lay it on the anvil again , and i hope with a few strokes i have so broken it , that there is scarce an artist among the factions can so solder it , as to make it hurtful or formidable again . i could wish they would at last turn this and other such swords into plow-shares , as men of evangelical spirits ought to do , and study to be quiet , and do their own business . but i think it not enough to deprive our adversaries of this weapon , i shall attempt to vindicate the fame and reputation of the venerable mr. hales , of whose authority , the churches adversaries do often make use to the maintenance of faction against her , as sometime they did of the king 's for raising a rebellion against him. it is an aggravation of sorrow , that the church , like the eagle , should receive its most dangerous wounds by the darts which are feathered from her own wing . and that that learning and piety , which is wanting in the adverse party , to inforce their own arguments , and support their cause , should be supplied by the revolt ( as in the apostates to popery ) or the captivity ( as in the case of mr. hales ) of some unsetled and unwary sons of the church , of whose parts and reputation the enemies on both sides have made more advantage than of their own . this hath been the beginning and growth of errors and schismes , when men of subtile parts , and popular esteem , raise doubts and arguments against the truth , and instill them into weaker judgments , and unstable minds , who are apt for want of understanding to take their sophistry for solid reasoning , and through affection to their persons , to adhere to them , as to the most faithful guides , and — jurare in verba magistri . but it is a very preposterous method to judge of the cause according to the reputation of such as espouse it . s. augustine gives us a safer rule , nec causa causae , nec persona personae praejudicet , let both causes , and persons , stand or fall according to their own merit . that little which i can gather concerning mr. hales ( all which and a great deal more , i charitably believe he did well deserve ) is to this effect compiled by mr. lloid in his memoires p. 606. in writing of which it seems he consulted the present bishop of chester , and mr. faringdon his familiar friends . mr. hales was born in kent , and bred fellow of merton colledge , where he was chosen greek professor of oxford . sir dudley carleton made him his chaplain , when he was at the hague ; about the business of the synod of dort , whereof ( being sent thither to that purpose ) he wrote a daily and exact account , completed , as appears in his remains , by dr. balcanquel . at which synod , he hearing episcopius well pressing as he thought that of saint john 3. 16. he said , there i bad john calvin good night . after this he was fellow of eaton , and then prebendary of windsor , in the first of which places he was treasurer , but ( which is strange ) such was his integrity and charity ) to his loss in point of estate ; and fellow ( such his prudence in avoiding the oaths of the times ) without any snare to his conscience . a person of so large a capacity , so sharp , quick , piercing and subtile a wit , of so serene and profound a judgment beyond the ordinary reach , built upon unordinary notions , raised out of strange observations , and comprehensive thoughts within himself , and of so astonishing an industry , that he became the most absolute master of polite various and universal learning , besides a deep insight into religion : in the search after which he was curious , and of the knowledge of it studious , as in the practice of it he was sincere . and as strictly just in his dealings , so he was extraordinarily kind , sweet , affable , communicative , humble and meek in converse , and inimitably as well as unusually charitable , giving away all that he had but his choice books , and was forced to sell them at last . he was as good a man as he was a great scholar , and as bishop pearson said of him , it was near as easie a task for any one to become as knowing , as so obliging . he had so long and with such advantage and impartiality judged of all books , things and men , that he was the oracle consulted by all the learned men of the nation , dr. hammond , mr. chillingworth , &c. in cases that concerned either . whereupon he used to say of learned mens letters , that they set up tops , and he must whip them for them . there are no monuments of his learning ( save the great scholars made by his directions and assistance ) extant , but sir henry savil's chrysostome , which he corrected with great paines in his younger dayes , and illustrated with admirable notes , ( for which he is often honourably mentioned by mr. andrew downs greek professor of cambridge ) and a collection of some choice sermons and letters made by mr. garthwait . he was very tender of judging any but himself , and never spake with complacency of any of his own works , but his sermon intitled dixi , custodiam , on psalm 36. 1. ( and indeed had he been as good at the custodiam , as he was at the dixi , he had been an incomparable man. ) for bishop pearson in his preface to his remains saith , he was a man of as great sharpness , quickness and subtilty of wit , as ever this , or perhaps any nation bred . his industry did strive if it were possible to equal the largeness of his capacity . proportionable to his reading was his meditation , which furnished him with a judgment beyond the vulgar reach of man. so that he really was a most prodigious example , of an acute and piercing wit , of a vast and illimited knowledge , of a severe and profound judgment . although this may seem , as in it self it truly is , a grand eulogium , yet i cannot esteem him less in any thing which belongs to a good man , than in those intellectual perfections . and had he never understood a letter , he had other ornaments sufficient to endear him . as a christian , none ever more acquainted with the nature of the gospel , because none more studious of the knowledge of it , or more curious in the search : which being strengthned by those great advantages before mentioned , could not prove otherwise than highly effectual . he took indeed to himself a liberty of judging not of others but for himself . and if ever any man might be allowed in these matters to judge , it was he who had so long , so much , so advantagiously considered , and which is more , never could be said to have the least worldly design in his determinations . he was not only most truly and strictly just in his secular transactions , most exemplary , meek and humble notwithstanding his perfections , but beyond all example charitable , giving unto all , preserving nothing but his books to continue his learning , and himself ; which when he had before digested , he was forced at last to feed upon ; at the same time the happiest and most unfortunate helluo of books , the grand exemplar of learning , and of the envy and contempt which followeth it . none was more solicited to write , and thereby to teach the world , than he ; yet none more resolved against it ; yet did he not hide his talent , being so communicative , that his chamber was a church and his chair a pulpit . so far bishop pearson , who testifieth also , that of all the sermons , miscellanies , &c. then published for his , we may be confident they were his . and now you see the reason , why mr. hales ( the famed author of such a work ) was so highly esteemed by the brethren of the factions , as that such , of either the presbyterian or independent faction , as defended their divisions and separations , made him their coryphaeus , he being for parts and learning , head and shoulders above the tallest of them . the treatise was printed , as i find , in an unhappy time , anno 1642. and although i am of the mind , that by the weakness of the arguments , the author intended rather to betray than defend the schism , yet the separatists wanting better reasons , made a great noise with these , as if they were justified in their schism by this work , notwithstanding the demerits of their own . the fame of this and some other opinions of our author came to the cognizance of that great lover of learning , and learned men , arch-bishop laud , who sent for him on purpose to admonish him of his faults ; and he being come to the palace in the morning , the arch-bishop presently gives order to delay dinner , ( probably that he might have the more time for discourse with mr. hales ) and taking him to his garden with him , they continued their conference for some hours ; after which they were very good friends , the arch-bishop studying to prefer him , and he praying for the arch-bishop as his chaplain . and whereas he had been heard to say in his former days , that he thought he should never dye a martyr , yet he was known to live a confessor , and if we will believe mr. marvel , he dyed little less than a martyr for the doctrine and discipline of the church of england , being by the enemies thereof deprived of all his livelihood , and reduced to such extremities as did contribute to the shortning of his days . dr. heylen in the life of the arch-bishop , tells us of another book , called disquisitio brevis , ascribed to mr. hales , in which some of the principal socinian tenents were cunningly inserted , pretending them for the best expedients to appease some controversies between us and rome . and that the treatise of schism not then printed , was transmitted from hand to hand in written copies , intended chiefly for the incouragement of our great masters of wit and reason to despise the authority of the church , the dispersing of which gave the arch-bishop occasion to send for him to lambeth . and that the arch-bishop knew his abilities while he lived in oxon . for ( dr. heylen says ) he was a man of infinite reading and no less ingenuity , free of discourse , and as communicative of his knowledge as the celestial bodies of their light and influences . and that after the discourse above intimated , which continued from nine of the clock till the usual time of dining , was past , and the lord conway , and other persons of honor being there , some of the servants thought it necessary to give him notice how the time had passed away ; and then coming in high coloured and almost panting for want of breath , enough to shew there had been some heats between them , mr. hales met with dr. heylen , with whom he was acquainted , told him that he found the arch-bishop ( whom he knew before to be a nimble disputant ) to be as well versed in books as business ; that he had been ferreted by him from one hole to another , till there was none left to afford him further shelter ; that he was now resolved to be orthodox , and to declare himself a true son of the church of england both for doctrine and discipline , p. 361 , 362. if it be demanded why our author did not refute this tract in his life-time ; i answer 1. he did do it as effectually as the philosopher confuted him that denied motion , when he arose from his seat , and walked up and down before him ; for his long profession , and practice , contrary to what was there written , was protestatio contraria facto . 2. the tract carried its confutation with it , as appears in the examination . 3. it 's not impossible that he foresaw how it might be serviceable to the royal party , whom their adversaries had begun to revile and persecute as arminians and papists : and in some cases , poyson well tempered and rightly applied may become medicinal . 4. he might be confident such weak arguments as he made use of , though they might please the factious multitude who knew no better , yet they could do no great hurt among judicious men . and because we cannot guess at the author's aim , which is secret , we ought to judge by his actions which were publick . the learned bishop taylor made use of a like stratagem to break the presbyterian power , and to countenance divisions between the factions , which were too much united against the loyal clergy : for in his liberty of prophesying , he insists on the same topicks of schism and heresie , of the incompetency of councils and fathers to determine our ecclesiastical controversies , and of scrupulous consciences , and urgeth far more cogent arguments than our author did , but still he had prepared his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an antidote to prevent any dangerous effect of his discourse . not unlike to some mountebanks ( pardon the comparison ) who to amuse the vulgar , and to effect their own ends do administer to their merry-andrews a certain dose of poison , but immediately give them such an antidote as causeth them to cast it up again , and hinders the mischievous operation of it . for the judicious reader may perceive such a reserve ( though it lay in ambuscado , and be compacted in a narrow compass ) as may easily rout those troops , which began too soon to cry victoria , and thought of nothing else but dividing the spoil . and if the learned bishop did this and was blameless , the goodness of the end in such cases denominating the action , i see no cause why our author , whose ends ( as we ought in charity to believe , considering the integrity of the person ) were for the restoring of peace , seeing he represented the causes of war so frivolous and inconsiderable , ought to be represented as a criminal or adversary . and thus i have endeavoured to rescue the author's person , as well as his papers from the enemies tents , according to the advice of tully in the case of muraena , tolle catonem de causâ , that by any means he should take off cato from appearing as an enemy , or an evidence against him , lest the opinion of cato's vertues should create him more prejudice , than the strength of his arguments were like to do . i have only to acquaint the reader that the reason why in the following censure i have sometime named the author as distinct from mr. hales , is because i believe it is applied by too many to such intents as the author never thought of ; and as the epigrammatist saith of ill repeating , so shall i say of ill applying other mens books , — malè dum recitas , incipit esse tuus . i cannot certainly calculate the time when this tract of schism was first penned , but i suppose it to be about forty years since , it being quoted by mr. chillingworth in his answer to knott , which wants but little of that age . and unless my conjecture , and credible information do both fail me , the occasion on which it was written was this : mr. hales and mr. chillingworth were of intimate acquaintance , and beside a constant correspondence by letters they had frequent converse with each other , but more especially when mr. chillingworth came so far in his answer as to vindicate our church from schism which was charged on her by knott , he consulted with mr. hales concerning the nature of schism , and after discourse he desired mr. hales to write his thoughts about it , which he did in this tract , out of which mr. chillingworth urged some arguments , which i think are the worst in all his book . sure i am that they caused ill reflections not only on the private reputation of mr. hales and mr. chillingworth , but on the church of england , as if that did favour the socinian principles . the author of infidelity unmasked writing against mr. chillingworth , tells him that his arguments concerning schism were conceits borrowed from a letter of mr. john hales of eaton written to a private friend of his ( as i am credibly informed , saith that author , by a person well known to them both at that time , and who saw the letter it self . ) and he farther affirms , of his own certain knowledge , that mr. hales was of a very inconstant judgment , one year ( for example says he ) doubting of , or denying the blessed trinity , and the next year professing and adoring the same . and another person , in a pamphlet called the total summ , written against mr. chillingworth , reviles him on the same account in these words . in this you shew the adamantinal hardness of your socinian forehead and samosatenian conscience . the truth is , that some arguments borrowed . from the socinians , and urged first by mr. hales , and from him by mr. chillingworth , gave occasion to that imputation . but as for mr. chillingworth he had sufficiently secured his reputation in the preface of his book , where he thus professeth : i believe the doctrine of the trinity , the deity of our saviour , and all other supernatural verities received in the scripture , as truly and as heartily as any man. and whereas he dyed in the faith of the church of england , he hath given assurance that he was then no socinian . as for mr. hales , whatever he was when he wrote this tract of schism , and some others , yet as his adversary says , he did afterward profess and adore the blessed trinity . and for the reader 's satisfaction , as well as for mr. hales his vindication , i shall transcribe that account which he gives of his faith concerning the trinity in his golden remains . mr. hales's confession of the trinity . the summ of whatever either the scriptures teach , or the schools conclude concerning the doctrine of the trinity , is comprised in these few lines . god is one , numerically one , more one than any single man is one , if unity could suscipere magis & minus : yet god is so one , that he admits of distinction , and so admits of distinction that he still retains unity . as he is one , so we call him god , the deity , the divine nature , and other names of the same signification ; as he is distinguished , so we call him trinity , persons , father , son , and holy ghost . in this trinity there is one essence , two emanations , three persons or relations , four properties , five notions . ( a notion is that by which any person is known or signified . ) the one essence is god , which with this relation , that it doth generate or beget , makes the person of the father ; the same essence with this relation , that it is begotten , makes the person of the son ; the same essence with this relation , that it proceedeth , maketh the person of the holy ghost . the two emanations are , to be begotten , and to proceed , or to be breathed out . the four properties are ; first , innascibility and inemanability ; the second is to generate , these belong to the father ; the third is to be begotten , this belongs to the son ; the fourth is to proceed , or to be breathed out , this belongs to the holy spirit . the five notions are , first , innascibility ; the second is to beget ; the third is to be begotten ; the fourth spiratio passiva , to be breathed out ; the fifth spiratio activa , or to breath ; and this notion belongs to the father and the son alike ; for pater & filius spirant spiritum sanctum . hence it evidently follows , that he who acknowledgeth thus much , can never possibly scruple the eternal deity of the son of god. and then he ingenuously concludes : if any man think this confession to be defective ( for i can conceive no more in this point necessary to be known ) let him supply what he conceives deficient , and i shall thank him for his labour . but to proceed : the confutation of this treatise of schism will appear to be necessary not only to wipe off the aspersions of the papists , but to silence the objections of factious persons , who often take arguments from it to defend themselves in their separation , as will appear by that which followeth . mr. hales had said , p. 207. that the church might be in any number more or less , in any place , country or nation , it may be in all , and for ought i know it may be in none , without prejudice to the definition of the church , or the truth of the gospel . this strange notion is contrary to what mr. hales delivers in his golden remains , p. 260. when we appeal ( saith he ) to the churches testimony , we content not our selves with any part of the church actually existent , but add unto it the perpetually successive testimony of the church in all ages since the apostles time and , . p. 186. this succession of the church is sufficient to prove where our church was before luther . this strange notion i say , that the church visible may totally decay , prevailed too far with mr. chillingworth , who saith , p. 239. it is not certain that the truth of the article [ of the holy catholick church ] depends upon the actual existence of a catholick church , but rather upon the right that the church of christ , or rather , to speak properly , that the gospel of christ hath to be universally believed ; and therefore the article may be true though there were no church in the world. now though this were only a probleme , which mr. chillingworth defends not , but in the 14. p. of his preface overthroweth , saying , i believe that our saviour ever since his ascension hath had in some place or other a visible true church on earth , and that there will be such a church to the worlds end : yet his adversary , p. 779. of infidelity unmasked , falls heavily on him , and tells him , that this notion is not only against the scripture , eph. 4. 11. but against all protestants and all christians ; and sends him to calvin 's institutions , l. 4. c. 1. and to volkelius , whom he calls his socinian brother , de verâ rel. l. 6. c. 5. who prove a succession of pastors and doctors to have been always in the church . remansit doctorum pastorúmque officium , nec non alia quaedam . and indeed dr. potter , whom mr. chillingworth defended , had said truly , that it was an error in the nature , and matter of it properly heretical to say , the church remained only in the party of donatus , and that it was much worse to say she remained no where ; for this were to overthrow the article of the catholick church , and is little less than blasphemy , saith arch-bishop laud. again , mr. hales , p. 218. said , it is alike unlawful to make profession of known or suspected falshoods , as to put in practice unlawful or suspected actions . this argument mr. chillingworth improveth , p. penult . of his preface to charity maintained . if a church ( says he ) supposed to want nothing necessary , require me to profess against my conscience , that i believe some error though never so small and innocent , which i do not believe , and will not allow me her communion but upon this condition ; in this case the church for requiring this condition is schismatical , and not i for separating from the church . mr. baxter speaks much more like a conformist in this case , than either mr. hales , or mr. chillingworth : if a church ( saith he , p. 464. of reasons for christ . relig. s. 15. ) which in all other respects is purest and best , will impose any sin upon all that will have any local communion with it , though we must not separate from that church as no church , yet must we not commit that sin , but patiently suffer them to exclude us from their communion . and i think it is more rational peaceably to dissent until we are actually excluded , than presently to pronounce that church schismatical , which requires such conditions of our communion . for if that which i believe to be an error , ( being , if an error , but small and innocent ) be required of me by a church which maintaineth all necessary things , i ought rather to submit to , or at least peaceably with-hold my communion from that church , than to violate its communion by my separation ; because that church which god hath preserved in all necessary truths , may probably know that which i believe to be an error ( and but a small one , if an error ) to be an important truth ; or if she be mistaken in such small things , it is not schismatical in her to require my profession , who may well be resolved of my doubt , when so many wiser and better than my self after mature deliberation think fit to require it . for as mr. hooker saith , p. 100. in all right and equity that which the church hath so long received and held for good , that which publick approbation hath ratified , must carry the benefit of presumption with it to be accounted meet and convenient . and , p. 55. this opinion , that the authority of man affirmatively in matters divine is nothing worth , being once inserted into the minds of the vulgar sort , god knows what it may grow unto . thus much we see , it hath already made thousands so head-strong , even in gross and palpable errors , that a man whose capacity will scarce serve him to utter five words in sensible manner , blusheth not in any doubt concerning matter of scripture , to think his own bare yea as good as the nay of all the wise , grave and learned judgments that are in the whole world ; which insolency must be represt , or it will be the very bane of christian religion . and therefore he concludes : the certain commands of the church must be obeyed in all things not certainly unlawful . and page 144. that which the church by her authority shall probably think and define to be true and good , must in congruity of reason over-rule all other inferior judgments whatsoever . and as to orders established ( by the church ) sith equity and season favour that which is in being till orderly judgment of decision be given against it , it is but justice to exact of you , and perversness in you it would be to deny thereunto your willing obedience . not that i judge it a thing allowable for men to observe those laws which in their hearts they are stedfastly perswaded to be against the laws of god ; but your perswasion in this case ye are all bound for the time to suspend , and in otherwise doing ye offend against god by troubling his church without any just or necessary cause . be it that there are some reasons inducing you to think hardly of our laws , are those reasons demonstrative , are they necessary , or but meer probabilities only ? an argument necessary and demonstrative is such , as being proposed unto any man and understood , the mind cannot choose but inwardly assent . — but if the skilfullest among you can shew that all the books ye have hitherto written be able to afford any one argument of this nature , let the instance be given . as for probabilities , what thing was there ever set down so agreeable with sound reason , but some probable shew against it might be made ? is it meet that when publickly things are received and have taken place , general obedience thereunto shall cease to be exacted , in case this or that private person , led with some probable conceit , should make open protestation , peter or john disallow them , and pronounce them naught ? — so that of peace and quietness there is not any way possible , unless the probable voice of every intire society or body politick over rule all private of like nature in the same body . which thing effectually proveth , that god being author of peace and not of confusion in the church , must needs be author of those mens peaceable resolutions , who concerning these things have determined with themselves to think and do as the church they are of decreeth , till they see necessary cause enforcing them to the contrary . and p. 144 , 145. mr. hooker saith , that which the church by her authority shall probably think and define to be true and good , must in congruity of reason over-rule all other inferior judgments whatsoever . and — where our duty is submission , weak oppositions betoken pride . now as the name of mr. hales prevailed with mr. chillingworth to imbrace some unsound opinions of his , so hath it done with others of great note . the author of the irenicum , p. 108. repeats the first and part of the second page of this tract , with this commendation : it is well observed by a learned and judicious divine , that heresie and schism , &c. and p. 120. i shall subjoyn the judgment of as learned and judicious a divine as most our nation hath bred in his excellent though little tract of schism . and then he repeats , p. 210. in those schisms , &c. to p. 212. and in p. 120 , and 121. of the irenicum , he quotes mr. hales , from p. 215. and were liturgies , &c. to p. 218. and adds , so far that excellent person , whose words i have taken the pains to transcribe because of the great wisdome , judgment and moderation contained in them , and the seasonableness of his counsel and advice to the present posture of affairs among us . and p. 394. thus that incomparable man , mr. hales , in his often quoted tract of schism , p. 223. to p. 225. adding , thus that grave and wise person , whose words savour of a more than ordinary tincture of a true spirit of christianity , that scorns to make religion a footstool to pride and ambition . the author of the rehearsal transpros'd , speaks marvellously of him i shall conclude ( says he ) with a villanous pamphlet , of which a great wit was the author ; and whereas mr. bayes is alwayes defying the non-conformists with mr. hooker's ecclesiastical polity , and the friendly debate , i am of opinion , though i have a great reverence for mr. hooker , that this little book of not full eight leaves hath shut that ecclesiastical polity , and mr. beyes too our of doors : it is one mr. hales of eaton , a most learned divine , and one of the church of england , and most remarkable for his sufferings in the late times , and for his christian patience under them . and i reckon it not one of the least ignominies of that age , that so eminent a person should have been by the iniquity of the times reduced to those necessities , under which he lived . as i account it no small honour to have grown up into some part of his acquaintance , and conversed a while with the living remains of one of the clearest heads and best prepared breasts in christendom . i hope it will not be tedious though i write some few ( and yet whatsoever i omit i shall have left behind more ) material passages . ( and then he fills up near eight pages of his book , out of mr. hales his eight leaves . ) — it was not amiss in the scribes and pharisees to build the tombes of the prophets , and garnish their sepulchres ; but to persecute their successors , and christ himself under pretence of honouring the ancients , was an impiety , full fraught with malice and envy . and a usual thing it is for such as intend to trample on such worthies as are present and stand in their way , to express great respect to those that are removed out of it : — sed nisi quae terris semota suisque temporibus defuncta videt , fastidit & odit . yet by that author's leave i have quoted much less out of the reverend mr. hooker in this parergon , yet enough to confute all that he or mr. hales have said in defence of schism . there is another late pamphlet called separation no schism , which in p. 40. telleth us , that a meer suspicion of sin is a sufficient ground for withdrawing communion , in the judgment of very learned men ; and then quotes mr. hales — so says that universally admired man , p. 210. and p. 216 , 217 , 218. and infers , these testimonies are so clear , and backt with such unanswerable reasons , that not only where the commission of sin , but the doing any thing that is suspected to be sinful , is required as a condition of communion , there a withdrawing is lawful , and not at all schismatical . now when men of so much learning , and judgment , as some of those whom i have mentioned , have upon the reputation of the venerable mr. hales improved such notions and arguments as are destructive to the government and peace of the church of england , it is not strange that men of little learning and great prejudices should assume them , whereby ( as far as they are able ) to justifie their schismatical practices ; nor that the scepticke of this age should be fond of such notions as may tend to the subversion of what hath been so long , and so well established among us . we may rather wonder , how so villanous a pamphlet ( as the rehersal calls it ; yet ) so obnoxious to just exceptions , should have continued so long in vogue without a confutation from some more learned hand , that the infection of it might proceed no farther , but its weakness be made manifest to all men. as for doctor parker , he hath no less judiciously and successfully acquitted himself against any thing objected by master hales , or marvel , than master hooker . to instance in that one particular , of pretending scruples of conscience against the commands of publick authority ; he faith more in one page , than all the objectors will be able to answer . though this pretence ( saith he ) might be allowed of in the dayes of queen elizabeth , when it was first started , yet after so long time , and so much enquiry , it is intolerable . for if after all their search and examination they have not been able to descry , the evils they suspected , this is a sufficient principle of presumption that their jealousies are ungrounded : so that if they are now able to object any certain crime against them , then this plea of a doubtful conscience ceaseth , and the certainty is to be pleaded in stead of the doubt ; if not , an hundred and fifty years is a sufficient time to satisfie or to cancel scruples , — and a scrupulous conscience is of a modest , yielding , and plyable temper , as arising from a diffidence and distrust of it self . and doubts and scruples are rarely imployed , but upon trifling and inconsiderable matters , the material parts of duty being too plain and easie to be liable to so much uncertainty ; and therefore obedience to authority , being one of the greatest and most indispensable duties of mankind , in that it is so absolutely necessary to their well being , and injoyned upon them by the most positive precepts and severest penalties of the gospel : nor is it fit that in doubtful cases of a publick concern men should talk too peremptorily of their private perswasions , because they are incompetent judges of the publick good , and therefore are to be determined and over-ruled by the judgment of those to whose care the management of publick affairs is intrusted , unless in case of certain and unquestionable disobedience to the law of god : for we are no otherway free from the supreme authority on earth , but as we are subject to a superior in heaven . an examination of mr. hales's treatise of schism . q. what is the benefit of communion ? answ . communion is the strength and ground of all society , sacred and civil : whoever therefore causeth a breach , if in civil occasions , is guilty of sedition , or rebellion ; if in ecclesiastical differences , is guilty of schism : so that schism is an ecclesiastical sedition , as sedition is a lay-schisme , p. 193. q. what is the definition of schism ? answ . schisme is an unnecessary separation of christians , from that part of the visible church of which they were once members . q. when is separation necessary ? answ . separation is then necessary , when nothing will save us from the guilt of conscience , but open separation , p. 195. q. when is schisme complete ? answ . these two things make schism complete . first , the choice of a bishop in opposition to the former . 2ly , the erecting a new church and oratory , for the dividing party to meet in publickly . as in the late famous controversie in holland , de praedestinatione , as long as the disagreeing parties went no further than disputes , the schisme was unhatched ; but as soon as one party swept an old cloyster , and by a pretty art suddenly made it a church ( by putting a new pulpit in it ) for the separating party to meet in , what before was a controversie became a formal schisme , p. 197. q. what is the danger of schism ? answ . what the ancients spake by way of censure of schisme in general , is most true , ( and they spake most strange things of it ) for they saw , that unadvisedly , and upon fancy , to break the knot of union betwixt man and man ( especially among christians , upon whom the tye of love and communion doth especially rest ) was a crime hardly pardonable , and that nothing absolves a man from the guilt of it , but true and unpretended conscience . and p. 192. heresie and schisme are things of great moment , the one offending against truth , the other against charity , and both are deadly . q. was the schisme of the donatists any way excusable ? answ . no , they were compleat schismaticks , upon the grounds before mentioned , nor was there any necessary cause for their separation , for the occasion of the schisme was an opinion , that where good and bad were mixed , there could be no church , by reason of pollution evaporating ( as it were ) from sinners , which blasted the righteous , and made all unclean , whereas in his congregations , he pretended that wicked persons found no shelter , p. 206. q. how was this schisme of the donatists refuted ? answ . by this one maxime of saint augustine ( which was irrefragably asserted ) unitatem ecclesiae per totum orbem dispersae propter nonnullorum peccata non esse deserendam , that the unity of the catholick church is not to be forsaken , for the sins of some that are within it , p. 206. q. though in this schism the donatist was the schismatick , yet might not any one communicate with them , if occasion so required ? if so be they did not flatter them in their schisme ; for why might it not be lawful to go to church with the donatist , if occasion so required , since neither nature , nor religion suggest the contrary ? why may i not be present at such publick meetings as pretend holiness , so there be nothing done but what true devotion and piety brook ? yea , why may i not go to an arian church , if occasion require , so there be no arianism expressed in the liturgy ? answ . 1. you may not communicate with such , because of the danger of schisme before mentioned . 2ly , because it is not lawful , no not for prayer , hearing , conference , or any other religious office whatsoever , for people to assemble , otherwise than by publick order is allowed ; for , why should men desire to do that suspiciously , in private , which may be performed warrantably in publick ? p. 229 , 230. q. but what if they to whose care the execution of the publick service is committed , do some things unseemly , suspicious , or unlawful ? if their garments be censured as , or indeed be superstitious ? what if the gesture of adoration be used at the altar ? what if the homilist or preacher deliver any doctrine , of the truth of which we are not well perswaded ? answ . yet for all this , we may not separate , except we be constrained to bear a part in them our selves : the priests under eli had so ill demeaned themselves about the daily sacrifice , that they made it to stink , yet the people refused not to come to the tabernacle , nor to bring their sacrifices to the priests ; for in schismes which concern fact , nothing can be a just cause of refusal of communion , but only the requiring of the execution of some unlawful or suspected act. q. what may we do when some persons in a church teach erroneous doctrines , suppose of arius and nestorius , concerning the trinity , or the person of our saviour ? answ . what to do in this case is not a point of any great depth of understanding to discover , so be it distemper and partiality do not intervene . i do not see , that opinionum varietas & opinantium unitas are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or that men of different opinions in christian religion , may not hold communion ( in sacris ) in the publick worship : ( this argument holds , à fortiori , if i may keep communion with such as teach false doctrines , much more with such as practise only suspected ceremonies . ) p. 226. q. what is your opinion of conventicles ? answ . it evidently appears that all meetings upon unnecessary occasions of separation , are to be so stiled ; so that in this sense a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismaticks . q. is not this name sometime fixed upon good and honest meetings ? p. 227. answ . it is , and that perchance , not without good reason ; for first , it hath been at all times confessed necessary , that god should have , not only inward and private devotion , when men either in their hearts , or closets , or within their private walls , pray , praise , confess , and acknowledge : but that all these things should be done in publick , by troops and shoals of men , from whence proceeded publick temples , altars , forms of service , appointed times , and the like , which are required for open assemblies . q. what is the reason of the severe censures and laws against private meetings ? answ . when it was espied that ill affected persons abused private meetings , whether religious , or civil , to evil ends , religiousness to gross impiety ( and the meetings of christians under pagan princes , when for fear they durst not come together in open view , were charged with soul imputations , as by the report of christians themselves it plainly appears : as also civil meetings under pretence of friendship , and neighbourly visits , sheltered treasonable attempts against princes , and common-weals ) hence both church and state joyned , and joyntly gave order for forms , times , places of publick concourse , whether for civil or religious ends ; and all other meetings whatsoever besides those , of which both time and place were limited , they censured for routs , and riots , and unlawful assemblies in the state , and in the church , for conventicles . q. is it not lawful then , for prayer , hearing , conference , and other religious offices , for people to assemble , otherwise than by publick order is allowed ? answ . no ; for why should men desire to do that suspiciously in private , which warrantably may be performed in publick ? p. 230. q. i pray you sir , what general rules are fit to be observed for the discovering and avoiding of schisme . answ . take heed of entertaining scruples of conscience , about things of little moment ; for when scruples of conscience began to be made , or pretended , then schismes began to break in , p. 217. q. what other rule is necessary to be observed ? answ . that you do not endeavour to advance one bishop against another , ( much more a presbyter against the bishop ) which in st. cyprian's language , is erigere altare contra altare , to set up altar against altar , to which he imputeth the original of all church disorders , and if you read him , you would think he thought no other church-tumult to be a schisme , but this ; for the general practice of the church , was , never to admit more than one bishop at once in one see , but it fell out among the ancients , sometime by occasion of difference in opinion , sometimes because of difference among those who were interessed in the choice of bishops , that two bishops , and sometime more were set up , and all parties striving to maintain their own bishop , made themselves several congregations and churches , each refusing to participate with others . and seeing it is a thing very convenient for the peace of the church , to have but one bishop in a see , at once ; their punishment sleeps not , who unnecessarily or wantonly go about to infringe it . having by a brief analysis of the treatise of schism extracted the genuine sense of the author , who , as the transproser says , p. 175. was one of the church of england , ( and as such i have endeavoured to represent him ) it is obvious to every one that shall read that tract , that instead of answering mr. hooker's or mr. parker's tracts of ecclesiastical polity , it hath fully refuted it self and all other cavils of the schismaticks , who by these two assertions of his will for ever lye under a just condemnation . the one is , p. 209. what if those to whose care the execution of the publick service is committed , do something either unseemly or suspicious , or peradventure unlawful ? what if the garments they wear be censured as , nay indeed be superstitious ? what if the gesture of adoration be used at the altar ? what if the homilist or preacher deliver any doctrine , of the truth of which we be not well perswaded ? yet for all this we may not separate , except we be constrained personally to bear a part in them our selves — then may not any of the laity who are not required to bear a part in such things , separate from our congregations , and by consequence neither may their leaders draw them into a separation . the second assertion is , p. 229. — it is not lawful , no not for prayer , for hearing , for conference , for any other religious office whatsoever , for people to assemble , otherwise than by publick order is allowed . this conclusion our author infers from substantial premises . i confess i was so tender of the reputation and memory of mr. hales , who , as the transproser says , was not only one of the church of england , but most remarkable for his sufferings in the late times , and for his christian patience under them , which befel him , as mr. parker observes , p. 148. when he had declared himself of another opinion , and obtained leave of arch-bishop laud ( who converted him ) to call himself his grace's chaplain , that naming him in his publick prayers , the greater notice might be taken of the alteration : ( which doubtless was the cause why so eminent a person was by the iniquity of those times reduced to those necessities under which ( the transposer observes ) he lived , p. 176. ) that i resolved at first not to make any reflection on such passages as discovered the author to be guilty of so many passions , infirmities and contradictions . i shall not deal therefore with mr. hales in this posthumous piece , but with that inimicus homo , whoever he be , that hath sown tares among the good seed , and wrapt up poyson in his golden remains . and necessary it is that such noxious and unsavory weeds should be rooted out , and not suffered to defile the grave of so candid a person , or made use of as a shelter for unclean creatures to hide themselves and croak under them , as the transproser doth , who having raked a heap of them together , from p. 175. to p. 183. fancieth himself as secure on that dunghil , as if he were in some inchanted castle . the first thing that is obnoxious in the treatise of schism , is p. 191. of the posthumous works , where it is said , that heresie and schism , as they are in common use , are two theological mormo's or scarcrows : and what the author means by common use , you may be informed , p. 213. where he says , arrianism , eutychianism , nestorianism , photinianism , sabellianism , and many more ( you may add socinianism too , which is but a compound of those ) are but names of schism , howsoever in the common language of the fathers they were called heresies . so that our author explodes the judgment of all the fathers who condemned those things for heresies , which he thinks do scarce deserve the name of schisms . and a new notion of heresies is brought in by him , p. 214. indeed manicheism , valentinanism , marcionism , mahometanism are truly and properly heresies , for we know that the authors of them received them not but minted them themselves , and so knew that which they taught to be a lye ; but can any man avouch ( saith our author ) that arrius and nestorius , and others that taught erroneously concerning the trinity , or the person of our saviour , did maliciously invent what they taught , and not rather fall upon it by error and mistake ? till that be done , and that upon good evidence , we will think no worse of all parties than needs we must , and take these rents in the church to be but schisms upon matter of opinion . if this be true , in vain did the bishops of the primitive church assemble in the councils of nice , ephesus , and other places , to condemn and suppress the opinions of arrius , nestorius and other heresiarcha's . and the fears and jealousies of the present church concerning the growth of heresies are groundless ; for though the erring spirits of this age should revive all the dangerous tenets of arrius , eutychius , nestorius , photinus , and sabellius , and all the blasphemies of manes , valentinian , marcion , or mahomet himself , yet seeing they did not invent these errors themselves , but fell on them by mistake ( though they adhere to them never so tenaciously , and wilfully defend them ) they deserve but the name of schismaticks . and until some such persons , as simon magus , montanus , or mahomet shall set up for a new god , or a holy ghost , or a messias , in direct opposition to the gospel of our lord and saviour , we need not trouble the world with the odious names of heretick , or schismatick , which are but theological scarcrows . for p. 215. we are told that the rents in the church ( occasioned by those heresies ) were at the worst but schisms upon matter of opinion . in which case ( saith our author ) it is not a point of any great depth of understanding to discover what we are to do , so be it distemper and partiality do not intervene ; i do not yet see that opinionum varietas & opinantium unitas are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or that men of different opinions in christian religion may not hold communion in sacris , and if occasion require i may go to an arrian church , if there be no arrianism exprest in their liturgy . this is expresly contrary to what i quoted from p. 229. it is not lawful for prayer , hearing , &c. and as contrary to the holy scriptures , rom. 16. 17. titus 3. 10. ephes . 5. 11. what error and confusion would these wilde notions bring into the church , if false prophets and deceivers should be permitted to teach , and the people not restrained from hearing them , although they should teach such damnable doctrines as denyed the lord that bought them ? i shall appeal therefore from the author to mr. hales ; who tells us , p. 192. however heresie and schism are but ridiculous terms in the common manage , yet the things in themselves are of very considerable moment , the one offending against truth , the other against charity , and therefore both deadly . so deadly , that i cannot compare them better than to that italian , who designed to kill his enemy , body and soul : for truth being the very soul of the church , and peace and unity the great organ or instrument by which it becomes visible and prosperous , the toleration of heresie and schism will be as destructive to the church here , as they will certainly be to the authors of them without repentance hereafter . there is a lesser mistake in our author's definition of schism , p. 195. by which he excuseth all such from the guilt of schism , as do separate from that part of the visible church whereof they were not once members . on which account all such children as were born of schismatical parents ( though they defend the schism never so obstinately ) are not guilty : whereas it is the duty of all christians to live in communion with that part of the catholick church in which they reside , and not to suffer themselves ( as our author expresseth it ) like beasts of burthen to be imposed upon by their predecessors . the schism of the donatists is by our author acknowledged to be a complete schism upon the grounds mentioned p. 196. i demand therefore , whether such children , as were born to the donatists , * and persisting in the opinions and practices of their fore-fathers troubled the churches of africa 300. years together , were guilty of schism or no ? or whether such as among us were born of anabaptistical or quaking parents , and still persist in and propagate church-divisions , are complete schismaticks or not ? and if we should try them by our author 's own rules , i am sure they will be found guilty . the next error of our author is his allowing of separation upon scruples , and suspicions , as p. 194. he says , when either acts unlawful , or ministring just scruple , are required of us to be performed , consent were conspiracy , and open contestation is not faction or schism , but due christian animosity . this just scruple he calls , p. 201. a strong suspicion , and p. 218. where suspected opinions are made a piece of the church-liturgy , he that separates is not the schismatick . it is like our author forgat what he said a little before , p. 217. that when scruples of conscience began to be made or pretended , then schisms began to break in ; as also what is said , p. 209. what if the preacher deliver any doctrine of the truth of which we are not well perswaded ? yet for all this we may not separate , except we be constrained personally to bear a part in some suspected act. against this error of our authors i affirm , that the scruples and suspicions of private christians , concerning the lawfulness of actions required by their superiors , cannot warrant their separation , because their obedience to superiors in things not unlawful is their duty , and to omit a certain duty , upon a bare suspicion , is dangerous and sinful . and for a full answer to this error , i desire it may be considered what a scrupulous conscience is , which i take to be such an act of the practical understanding as resolves what is , or what is not to be done , but with some fear and anxiety lest its determination be amiss . and it differs from a doubting conscience , which assents to neither part of the question , but remains unresolved , as doubting of the true sense of the rule ; in which case it is resolved , that in all things doubtful we are to take the safest course . and doubtless that wherein the generality of wise and good men as well ancient as modern are agreed , is much more safe than that , in which a few less knowing , prejudicated and guilty persons pretend to be doubtful . but where there are only groundless fears and scruples concerning some circumstance annexed to a known duty , it is the sense even of our non-conformists , that if we cannot upon serious endeavours get rid of our scruples , we ought to act against them ; and this is so lawful and necessary , that we cannot otherwise have either grace or peace . see more to this purpose in a sermon at cripplegate on acts 24. 26. p. 18 , & 19. and if scruple and suspicion were a just plea for separation , then every discontented person that is resolved to contemn his superiours , every one that is affectedly ignorant , and lazy , or refractory to better information , every one that hath melancholy humours and temptations , or wants true christian humility , or charity , may make separation , and yet be guiltless . so that this opinion of our author's would be an apology for all separatists ; which being allowed , there neither was nor can be any such sin as schism . for i suppose it is sufficiently known , that neither the doctrine , or worship of any church is so well constituted , but some unquiet spirits have raised scruples and suspicions concerning them . and unless the church have power to command things lawful and no way repugnant to the word of god ( though some giddy persons may scruple at them ) it is impossible that it should preserve it self from confusion . the apostles i am sure did practise this in the synod at hierusalem , acts 15. and st. paul silenceth the objections of contentious and scrupulous persons with the custome of the churches of god , 1 corinth . 11. 16. every congregation that pretends to have the face of a church requires the obedience of its members to all orders for publick worship , as well as their consent to their articles of faith , and without this it could not subsist . i shall conclude this with mr. baxter's advice in his dispute of ceremonies , ch. 15. s. 3. that the duty of obeying being certain , and the sinfulness of the thing commanded being uncertain and only suspected , we must go on the surer side . and the author of the sermon on acts 24. 16. gives a good reason for it , saying , if a christian should forbear praying or receiving the sacrament every time his scrupulous conscience tells him he had better wholly omit the duty , than perform it in such a manner , he would soon find to his sorrow the mischief of his scruples . and he adviseth — in all known necessary duties always do what you can , when you cannot do what you would . our author , p. 202. falls on an ancient controversie concerning the observation of easter , of which he gives us this imperfect account , that it being upon error taken for necessary , that an easter must be kept , and upon worse than error ( if i may so speak ) for it was no less than a point of judaism forced upon the church ) thought further necessary that the ground for the keeping the time of that feast must be the rule left by moses to the jews , there arose a stout question whether we ought to celebrate with the jews on the 14th . of the moon , or the sunday following . this matter though most unnecessary , most vain , yet caused as great a combustion as ever was in the church , the west separating from and refusing communion with the east for many years together . an impartial relation of the ground of this controversie as it lies in church history will sufficiently discover how odiously it is represented . first then , whereas he says , it was upon error taken for necessary that an easter must be kept : i answer , if it were an error , the church had it from the apostles themselves ; for although the contending parties differed among themselves in the day , yet both agreed on the necessity of observing easter in commemoration of our saviour's resurrection : and the controversie concerning the day puts it out of controversie that there ought to be a day observed . some learned men have thought the setting a-part of an easter day to be grounded on 1 cor. 5. 8. where s. paul speaking of the christian passover , says , let us keep the feast ; and grotius observes that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 answereth to the hebrew , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifieth to abstain from all work for the offering up of holy things to god. if the observation of any day be necessary unto christians , this of easter is , because it is the mother and ground of our weekly sabbath , and is supposed to be the same which s. john calls the lords day , rev. 1. 10. but we need not seek express authority from scripture to make it necessary ; the practice of the apostles testified by such early and authentick witnesses , and the continued celebration of it in all the churches of god do evince that it was not taken up on an error , no more than the observation of the weekly sabbath . mr. hales says enough to resolve this objection in his golden remains set forth by mr. garthwait 1673. p. 260. on the question , how we may know the scriptures to be the word of god. when ( saith he ) we appeal to the churches testimony , we content not our selves with any part of the church actually existent , but add unto it the perpetually successive testimony of the church in all ages since the apostles times ( viz. ) since its first beginning , and out of both these draw an argument in this question , of that force as that from it not the subtilest disputer can find an escape . for who is it that can think to find acceptance and credit with reasonable men by opposing not only the present church conversing in earth , but the uniform consent of the church in all ages ? — so that the church in all ages agreeing that an easter must be kept , it was not taken up upon error . nor , secondly , was it upon worse than error , ( i. e. ) as our author affirms , a point of judaism grounded on the law of moses to the jews , that the observation thereof was by some churches solemnized on the 14th . day of the moon . for the eastern churches alledging the practice of s. john and philip for the 14th . day , had a better ground for it than a jewish custom , namely that of christian charity ; and baronius notes it as worthy of our observation , that the apostles had anciently appointed , that though easter were observed on the lords day by the generality of christians , yet they should gently tolerate the judaizing converts , which were of the circumcision , and were in great numbers in the eastern parts . see baronius's annals ad ann. 167. p. 168. now the western churches pleaded for their practice ( which was the observation of the sunday following ) the authority of s. peter , and s. paul , who had fully convinced the gentile converts , that all jewish rites were to be laid aside , as having had their full completion in christ ; but yet , as in other like cases , they were instructed to bear with the jews , as for some time they did ; for the first time that this controversie was agitated was between anicetus bishop of rome , and polycarp bishop of smyrna who according to the custom of other asian churches celebrated easter day on the 14th . of the moon . for which practice polycarp alledged the authority of s. john. and irenaeus in an epistle mentioned by eusebius l. 5. c. 18. tells us , that polycarp came to rome to discourse with anicetus concerning this and other different observations between the eastern and western churches ; and having after some conference amicably agreed other controversies , they still differed about this observation , but without any violation of the bond of charity , for they communicated together , anicetus giving leave to polycarp to perform the offices of divine worship in his church ; and it was then concluded , that both churches should be at liberty to observe the ancient customes delivered to them from their predecessors . but about the year of christ , 198. victor bishop of rome revives the controversie with polycrates bishop of ephesus , who was then 65 years old and came within a little time of s. john , being cotemporary with polycarp . victor pleads that the custom of his church was derived from the apostles s. peter and s. paul , and that all his predecessors had celebrated easter on the lords day . see eusebius lib. 5. ch . 21 , 22 , 23. and nicephorus l. 4. c. 36. polycrates in his epistle mentioned by eusebius , l. 5. c. 24. replies , that all the provinces of asia observed it according to an ancient tradition received long before ( i. e. before the second century ) from s. john and s. philip , from polycarp bishop of smyrna , from thraseas bishop of eumenia , sagaris of laodicea , papirius and melito bishops of sardis , who always practised according to the same canon , and all the bishops of asia then living consented to and subscribed his epistle . upon this , victor beginneth to storm , and threatneth to excommunicate the bishops of asia as heterodox , and to that end he assembleth the bishops under his jurisdiction , who with one consent declared for peace , desiring his forbearance , and disliking his too great severity . the epistle of irenaeus to victor on this occasion is yet extant , in which he declares , that although for his part he was resolved to observe the feast of easter on the sunday according to the practice of the western church in which he lived , yet he could not approve that the eastern church should be excommunicated for observing an ancient custom ; and mindeth victor that the bishops before him had never broken the churches peace on this occasion . but no mediation would prevail ; victor was victor still , and proceeds to denounce an impotent sentence against the asian churches . baronius says something to excuse the severity of victor ( viz. ) that as long as those churches were catholick and incorrupt , they of rome thought it expedient to tolerate that custom ; but when from that custom , schism and heresie brake in upon the asian churches , ( for montanus having diffused his heresie through asia , those asians began to plead that they had received this tradition from their paraclete , that the pascha ought to be celebrated on the 14th . of the moon and on no other day , and that all such as practised otherwise were in an error ) then victor thought it his duty to restrain this error . 2. this opinion of keeping easter after the asian manner was taken up by many hereticks , and so spread it self that it invaded the very bosom of the roman church , and pluckt thence one blastus who in the face of that church maintained the asian against the roman custom . tertullian speaks of this blastus in his book de praescriptionibus , c. 53. saying , that he endeavoured to bring in judaism , affirming that the christian pascha was not to be kept otherwise than was prescribed by the law of moses . and this opinion of blastus drew away so many after him , that irenaeus wrote a book of schism directed purposely against blastus , but could not recal him . and now let the indifferent reader judge whether the subject of this controversie were most unnecessary , most vain ( as our author declaims . ) victor indeed did prosecute it with too much heat , insomuch that the cardinal knows not what to say in his excuse . an verò quod potestate , jure faciebat , recténe fecerit dubitatum est , saith the cardinal . doubtless the asian churches were ( sui juris ) not under the jurisdiction of victor , or if they had been , yet was he not unblameable in excommunicating all the churches of asia for the fault of some few that had crept in among them , whom in due time they would have restrained by their own authority . he was also too precipitate in not yielding to the mediation of his own bishops in behalf of those churches . and lastly , he was much more culpable for imposing this observation on the asian churches as a matter of faith , and judged them to be heterodox and excommunicate that would not submit . baronius his words ad annum christi 198. p. 191. of the antwerp edition are , totius asia ecclesias cum aliis finit imis tanquam alterius fidei & opinionis à communi unitate ecclesia amputare conatur . nor were the asian churches without fault for yielding so long to a jewish ceremony , which might long ere that time have been decently buried as other jewish customes had been : and also for suffering some among them to teach a necessity of observing the christian pascha on the 14th . day and no other . so that ( to conclude ) though the roman church was in this particular stronger in the faith , yet ( as our author saith ) they should have born with the imbecillity of their weaker brethren , a thing which ( he observes ) s. paul would not refuse to do , p. 218. to which i say , that s. paul did comply for a while with the jewish converts in the case of circumcision , but when some of them pleaded for a necessity of circumcision , he thunders against that opinion as loudly as victor did against this , saying , that if they were circumcised ( i. e. with an opinion of the necessity of it ) christ should profit them nothing , gal. 5. 2. now from this history ( as our author had contrived it ) he drew several wilde inferences : as first p. 203. in this fantastical hurry i cannot see ( saith he ) but all the world were schismaticks . to which i reply . that all the world were not concerned in it , there being some nations that differed from both these in the observation of easter , as socrates , l. 5. c. 21. hath observed : for even among the jewish converts , some that agreed on the 14th . day differed in the moon , and venerable bede observes that our nation ( which the pope pretends to have been his converts ) did in those primitive times observe their easter on the 14th . day ( which by the way is an argument that we at first received the christian faith , not from the church of rome who exploded this custome , but more anciently from joseph of arimathea , or from st. philip , who , as many good authors affirm , planted the christian religion in our neighbour nation of france , and as the asian churches affirm , was one of them that taught them this custom ) nor do we read that they were condemned for hereticks for so doing . neither did those eastern churches who differed in the moneth anathematize each other ; and socrates ( ubi supra ) gives this reason for it , they that agree in the same faith may differ from each other in respect of rites . ( as the reformed churches do at this day ) and though the roman church did excommunicate the asian , yet were they never the more schismaticks for that , being they were ( sui juris ) not under the roman power . and according to our authors definition of schism , they being never members of that church from which they were excommunicate , could not be guilty of schism notwithstanding victors rigor . we say therefore they were still members of the catholick church . and as for the roman church what should make them schismaticks ? for though victor did arrogate too much as to the manner of his proceedings , yet as to the matter , his prosecution against a jewish ceremony when it grew into an opinion of being necessary to be observed , was his duty , and approved by the practice of st. paul himself . and while there was a controversie between their governors , the people and clergy too of both parties continued in due subjection to their superiors , and in mutual charity to one another . so that the separatists of our age can have no excuse for their schism from this instance . but our author infers , secondly , that this fell out through the ignorance or ( which he mentioneth also ) the malice of their governors , and that through the just judgment of god on the people , because through sloth and blind obedience they examined not the things which they were taught , but like beasts of burthen patiently couched down and indifferently underwent whatsoever their superiors laid upon them . to which i answer . it doth not appear there was any charge of ignorance to be imputed to victor , or his people , for the reasons above mentioned ; much less of malice . our present sectaries do call their opposition to ceremonies ( more innocent than that ) by the name of zeal , and love to the cause of god. nor was there any thing imposed on the churches of either side , that concerned their faith , nor any custome or rite ( de novo ) but only the asian churches were desired to translate the custome of observing easter , from a day which gave offence not only to the church of rome , but several other churches . petavius says , the difference was not de catholico dogmate , sed de ritu , seu ritûs potiùs tempore . and if the superiors in the asian churches had thought the alteration fit , ( as shortly after they did ) it had doubtless been the peoples duty to submit ; for every church hath power in those things which are indifferent , and much more in such things as give offence to other churches , to appoint and alter rites and ceremonies for the publick worship of god ; and the people shew themselves not beasts of burthen but christ's free-men , in submitting to their governors as far as christian liberty doth permit . if victor had imposed new articles of faith , as pius quintus did in the council of trent , doubtless those primitive christians would have resisted even to bloud ; of which they gave too many instances when they constantly endured all manner of torments rather than they would renounce the faith once delivered to them . our author therefore needed to ask pardon for wounding the reputation of these ancient worthies in cool bloud , as well as for massacring at once the authority of all the fathers in the heat of a temptation , p. 204. where he says thus : you may plainly see the danger of our appeal to antiquity for resolution in controversies of faith , and how small relief we are to expect from thence ; for if the discretion of the chiefest guides of the church did in a point so trivial , so inconsiderable , so mainly fail them , as not to see the truth in a subject wherein it is the greatest marvel , how they could avoid the sight of it ; can we without the imputation of extreme grossness and folly , think so poor spirited persons competent judges of the questions now on foot in the churches ? pardon me , i know not what temptation drew that note from me . to this i reply : 1. whoever he be that so contemptuously rejects the authority , and trampleth on the reputation of the fathers , hath sufficiently excused those that shall slight his own . this is the author 's own sense , golden remains , p. 260. 2. i refer it to the judgment of the reader whether victor bishop of rome condemning some of the asian churches for adhering too tenaciously to a jewish ceremony which was of ill consequence to those and other neighbouring churches , were not more excusable than a private person , living many hundred years after the fact , ( and never rightly knowing , or else wrongfully representing it ) insolently and causlesly condemning the ancient fathers , not of one or two ages or parts of the church , but all in general ; as if the failing of one man in a point so trivial and inconsiderable ( as our author calls it ) were sufficient reason to condemn them all for indiscreet and poor spirited persons ; and to impute extreme grossness and folly to all that should think them competent judges of our differences . this is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beyond that of abailardus , who was wont to say , that the fathers for the most part did think this or that to be right , but i think otherwise , as if his single authority could out-weigh all theirs . 3. he must pretend to have some new light for his guide , and be either an enthusiast , or socinian , that can see any danger in appealing to antiquity for resolution in controverted points of faith. for seeing there is scarce any point of faith but some unhappy wits have controverted it , and in defence of their opinions have put the scriptures on the rack to make them speak their own sense ; how can points of faith delivered in the scriptures be better understood and confirmed than by the joynt consent of such ancient doctors who conversed with the apostles or their immediate successors , and are rightly called apostolici , many of which were persons of great learning and eloquence , and so could not be charged with ignorance ? and doubtless they were very industrious in inquiring into the grounds of the christian faith , for which they forsook all temporal accommodations , and most of them their lives , and against all opposition have not only handed down to us the scriptures themselves pure and incorrupt , but the proper and genuine sense of them . we do not make them judices but indices fidei , not the authors but the witnesses to confirm and give evidence in matters of faith. 4. the papists do calumniate the reformed divines as if they rejected the judgment of the fathers ; whereas they do with one consent ( and none more readily than they of the church of england ) appeal to their authority for confirmation of the faith which they profess . i could easily fill a volume with the testimonies of our modern divines concerning the authority of the ancients , how competent judges they are of the questions now on foot . the naming of some few will resolve us whether our author's opinion or theirs deserves the imputation of grosness and folly . calvin in his controversie with pighius , de libero arbitrio , says , the controversie between me and pighius would soon be ended if he would declare the tradition of the church in the certain and perpetual consent of the holy and orthodox . bucer says as much on matth. 1. concerning the consent of the church about the perpetual virginity of the holy virgin mary . that to doubt of that consent , unless some plain oracle of scripture doth inforce it , is not the part of them that have learned what the church of christ is . when zanchy was 70. years old , and had long studied the point , he tells us in these words : hoc ego ingenuè profiteor talem esse meam conscientiam , ut à veterum patrum sive dogmatibus , sive scripturarum interpretationibus , non facilè nisi manifestis scripturarum testimoniis vel necessariis consequentiis apertisque demonstrationibus convictus atque coactus discedere queam ; sic enim acquiescat mea conscientia , & in hac mentis quiete cupio etiam mori . epistola ad confess . fidei , p. 47. gualter in his preface to peter martyr's common places , says , from hence come all kinds of evils , the pest of disputatiousness , the violation of all bonds of charity , and shaking the fundamentals of faith , because we do not reverence the ancients as much as we ought . nor fear i to affirm , that the chief cause of the contentions of our age , is , because most divines insist on the opinions of their present masters , and read their books , not enquiring what learned antiquity did think , or what errors and heresies were condemned by it . as for the divines of our own church , it may be sufficient to mention bishop jewel's chalengee , and how well he discharged it . if any learned man of our adversaries ( said that learned bishop ) or all the learned men that be alive , be able to bring any one sufficient sentence out of any old catholick doctor or father , or out of any old general council , or out of the holy scriptures of god , or any one example of the primitive church , whereby it may be clearly and plainly proved , that there was any private mass in the world for 600 years after christ , or that , &c. ( to the number of 27. articles now in controversie between us and the church of rome ) i am content to yield and to subscribe . and in his apologie for the church of england he says , we came as nigh as possibly we could to the apostolical churches and the ancient bishops , neither did we direct our doctrine only , but our sacraments and form of publick prayers to their rites and institutions . and after him the church provided by her constitutions , imprimis videant concionatores , ne quid unquam pro concione doceant quod à populo religiosè teneri & credi volunt , nisi quod consentaneum sit veteri & novo testamento , quódque ex iis docuerint antiqui patres & veteres episcopi collegerint . i add only that of the royal martyr in his discourse with henderson , 3d. paper . when you and i differ about the sense of the scriptures , and i appeal to the unanimous consent of the fathers and the primitive church , you ought to find a more competent judge , or to rest in him that is proposed by me . and this shall serve to assoil that question which our author saith , carryeth fire in the tail of it , and brings with it a piece of doctrine which is seldom pleasing to superiors , p. 200. but the fire proves an ignis fatuus , and our author himself brings water enough to extinguish it ; for in p. 65. he saith , if aristotle and aphrodiseus , and galen , and the rest of those excellent men whom god hath endued with extraordinary portions of natural knowledge , have with all thankful and ingenious men throughout all generations retained their credit intire , notwithstanding it is acknowledged that they have all of them in many things swerved from the truth ; then why should not christians express the same ingenuity to those who have laboured before us in the exposition of the christian faith , and highly esteem them for their works sake , their many infirmities notwithstanding ? from this general contempt of the fathers our author proceeds , p. 206. to cast a slurr on s. augustine . for having mentioned s. augustines argument which he maintained against the donatists , which was , unitatem ecclesiae per totum orbem dispersae propter nonnullorum peccata non esse deserendam ; ( i. e. ) that the unity of the church spread over the whole world ought not to be forsaken for the sins of some few that were in its communion , he adds , that though it were de facto false , that donatus his party shut up in africa , was the only orthodox party ; yet it might have been true notwithstanding any thing s. augustine brings to confute it . and contrarily though it were de facto true that the part of christians dispersed over the face of the earth were the orthodox , yet it might have been false notwithstanding any thing s. augustine brings to confirm it . as if that learned father who was as close and exact a disputant as the church hath enjoyed ever since , had wholly mistaken the question , or were unable to urge one argument pro or con , ( i.e. ) either for confutation of that wretched schism , or for defence of the catholick church . that learned father wrote a very large volume against those schismaticks , which contains so much both of wit and argument , that there would not need any thing else to be said for the confutation of schismaticks to the worlds end if his arguments were well understood and applyed . and when our author proves the donatists in two lines to be complete schismaticks , first for choosing a bishop in opposition to the former , secondly , for erecting new places for the dividing party to meet in publickly , i wonder with what confidence he could deny that s. augustine had done so much in so many writings and disputations . but when i consider how palpably this author contradicts himself ; i cease to wonder that he should oppose and contemn that great man. for , p. 208. he seems with some passion to interrogate , why might it not be lawful to go to church with the donatists ? and p. 215. why may i not go if occasion require to an arrian church ? when p. 229. he says expresly that it is not lawful no not for prayer , hearing , conference , &c. to assemble otherwise than by publick order is allowed . and if our author knew not that as well the schism of the donatists as the heresie of the arrians was often condemned and forbidden by the emperors and councils of that age , he was very ignorant indeed . but the reason which our author gives , why s. augustine said nothing to the question , is as strange as any thing else . s. augustine ( saith our author ) brought nothing to prove that the orthodox were the true church , or the donatists were schismaticks . for the church may be in any number , in any place , country or nation , it may be in all , and for ought i know it may be in none , without prejudice to the definition of a church or the truth of the gospel . he might as well have told us of a church in utopia , which is the same with a church in no place , country or nation . what idea of the church our author conceived i cannot imagine , but that which he expresseth concerning it is as contrary to the truth of all the prophecies of the old testament , as well as the description of it in the new , from whence the definition is taken , as light is to darkness . for acts 2. 41. ad finem , the church is described to be a number of men ( not all nor none ) called out of the world by the preaching of the apostles , and joyning themselves to their spiritual guides by baptism and breaking of bread , by publick prayers , and hearing the word . these in verse 47. are expresly called the church , and to this church the lord added daily such as should be saved . now such churches were by christ's commissions to be planted in all nations , which we believe was really effected ; and the truth thereof is still apparent , that god hath given his son the heathen for his inheritance , and the utmost parts of the earth for hs possession : and therefore to say that a church may be in none , either number or place , ( for i suppose the author intends both , because if it may exist in no place , it must not consist of any number , nor so much as admit of one ) as contrary to sense and reason as to the truth of the gospel . and is such a fancy as that of mrs. trask , who having shifted from one conventicle to another in new-england ; and at last on pretence of impurity in their ordinances and members , separated from them all , affirmed , that she alone was the church and spouse of christ . but i think mr. hales himself sufficiently refutes this fancy of our author . page 185 , & 186. of his golden remains he tells us , that to prove the existence of our church before luther , all that is necessary to be proved in the case is nothing else but this ; that there hath been from the apostles times a perpetual succession of the ministry to preach and to baptize , of which by the providence of god there remains very good evidence to the world , and shall remain . having told us that the church may be in no place , that is in effect that there may be no church , he doth with the more confidence affirm , p. 213. that church authority is none , and tradition for the most part but figment . answ . as to traditions in general i defend them not , nor can any man else ; but for such as bear the characters , which vincentius lirinensis describes , quod ubique , quod semper , quod ab omnibus , we have all reason imaginable to inforce the imbracing of such traditions as have been received and delivered to us by all the churches of christ , in all ages and in all places , unless we were of the authors opinion , that church authority is none ; and this can never be made good but by proof of our authors fiction of a church in utopia . for if our saviour did out of mankind redeem a church by his own bloud ; if he planted it by his apostles , and promised his presence with it to the end of the world ; if he made it the ground and pillar of truth , and promised to hear her prayers , and to bind in heaven what they bound on earth , and that the gates of hell , i.e. neither persecutions , nor heresies , nor schisms should prevail against it : doubtless there is a church , and that church hath some authority granted to her by her dear redeemer , to defend that peace and unity , as well as those truths , which he bequeathed to her . did our saviour take care for the church of the jews only , or did he not also mind the christian church , when matt. 18. 17. he enjoyns us even in private differences among our selves , much more in those which concern the publick peace of the church , as in the case of scandals mentioned in the context , v. 7. to go tell the church ; and if any should neglect to hear the church , that he should be unto us as an heathen man and a publican , i.e. excommunicate from that holy society ; which punishment being spiritual doth clearly evince , that the causes submitted to the judgment of the church were spiritual also . but i demand farther , did the apostles usurp more authority than was given them , when they assembled together , acts 15. 6. about the case of circumcision ; and after the difference had been fully debated by peter , paul , barnabas and s. james in the presence of the elders and the multitude , they all agreed , and that by the approbation of the holy ghost , v. 28. to impose upon the churches certain constitutions as necessary to be observed at that time for the peace of the church ? if they did not , then the church had some authority . and so when s. paul pleaded the custom of the churches of god against contentious persons in the church of corinth , 1 epist . c. 11. v. 16. and doth not the same apostle tell us , that when our saviour ascended up on high , eph. 4. 11. he placed rulers and governors in his church , whose care it should be to provide that the people should not be thenceforth as children tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the slight of men , and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive , v. 14. if church authority be none , to what end did s. paul injoyn timothy to see that women should keep silence in the church , 1 tim. 2. 12. not only to teach but command , 1 tim. 4. 11. to give charge concerning widows , 1 tim. 5. 1 , 7. how to receive accusations against elders , 1 tim. 5. 19. how to ordain , 1 tim. 5. 22. and see that they held fast the form of sound words , 2 tim. 1. 13. to suppress striving about vain words and prophane bablings , such as were the discourses of hymenaeus and philetus , which did eat as a canker and overthrew the faith of some , 2 tim. 2. 14 , 16. to rebuke ( authoritatively ) such as would not endure sound doctrine , but agreeably to their own lusts did heap up teachers to themselves , having itching ears , 2 tim. 4. 2 , 3. and in like manner that titus should suffer no man to despise his authority , titus 2. 15. but diligently discharge the duties for which the apostle setled him in crete , i. e. to set in order things which were wanting , and to ordain elders in every city , titus 1. 5. and to reject hereticks after a second admonition , titus 3. 10. besides we find the spirit of god commending the angel of the church of ephesus for shewing her hatred against the nicolaitans , and blaming the angel of the church of pergamus for tolerating the doctrines of balaam and the nicolaitans , and the angel of thyatira for permitting the doctrine and practice of jezebel , rev. 2. 6. &c. nor did i ever hear yet of any conventicle that pretended to have the face of a church , that did not exercise some authority over their members : for as the synod of dort declared , no order nor peace can be preserved in the church , if it should not be lawful for it so to judge of its own members , as to restrain within bounds wavering and unsetled spirits . this hath been the practice of the churches of all ages ; the particulars to which their authority did extend are not now to be reckoned , nor the arguments for vindication thereof necessary to be insisted on : i shall shut up this with that of beza , de pace ecclesiae : neque enim dei gratiâ ignoro ecclesiam esse veritatis testem , extra quam non sit salus , & orthodoxorum consensum in synodis adversùs haereticos plurimi fieri par est , & patrum in interpretandis scripturis , in refutandis erroribus , in admonendis populis , labores adeò non contemni oportet , ut secundo à scripturis loco meritò habeantur . these things do certainly infer , that church-authority is something . however our author , p. 224. dares to tell us , that they do but abuse themselves and others that would perswade us , that bishops by christ's institution have any superiority above other men further than of reverence . and the reason which he gives for it is this , for we have believed him that told us , that in jesus christ there is neither high nor low , and that in giving honour every man should be ready to prefer another before himself . which reasons do as certainly conclude against magistrates as bishops , viz. that there is no obedience , no tribute or homage due to them by christ's institution , nothing further than an airy superiority of reverence , which if the other were denyed would be but a mockery ; like that wherewith the late royal martyr was reverenced , when the usurpers robbed him of all that god and the laws invested him withall , and gave him only the superiority of reverence in a noble death . but as to bishops , let our author's assertion answer it self : for first , it grants that bishops were by christ's institution , because by his institution they had a superiority of reverence above other men. 2ly , this superiority was grounded on their office as bishops , that is , overseers of the flock committed to their charge , which office was assigned to them by the holy ghost , acts 20. 28. and now i would have the reader consider whether those that by the institution of christ and of the holy ghost were made rulers and governors of the church , have no other superiority above other men beside that of reverence ? there is more expressed , hebr. 13. 17. in these words , obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves . and when st. paul instructs timothy in the office of a bishop , he tells him how he should learn to rule the house of god , 1 tim. 3. 4. by ruling well his own house , having his children in subjection with all gravity . again , when he chargeth timothy , 1 ep. 5. 17. to provide that those presbyters that did not only rule well but laboured ( above others ) in the word and doctrine , should be counted worthy of double honour , he intended somewhat more than a superiority of reverence , namely an honorary maintenance , such as was the portion of the elder brother under the law , not a precarious eleemosynary stipend , but that which was as due to them as the hire is to the labourer ; and i suppose that this is by christ's institution , the apostle assuring us , that as it was setled by a divine institution under the law , even so hath the lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel , 1. cor. 9. 14. besides , the apostle grounds the superiority of reverence on that of the office of governing , labouring and watching for the souls of the people . so 1 thessal . 5. 12 , 13. we besseech you brethren to know them which labour among you , and are over you in the lord and admonish you , and to esteem them very highly in love for their works sake . and that the apostles were superior in office not only to the people , but to the 72. disciples , and to the deacons , is clearly evinced by the scriptures ; for upon the miscarriage of judas another being to take his office , acts 1. 20. the apostles met together , and in a solemn assembly after prayer and supplication the lot fell on matthias , who was one of the 72. disciples , and had accompanied the apostles all the time that the lord jesus went in and out among them . and this method was to continue , by saint paul's advice to timothy , 1. ep. 3. 13. where such as had used the office of a deacon well , are said to purchase to themselves a good degree , i. e. as the assembly expound it , doth deservedly purchase to himself the honour of a higher office in the church . and whereas we read , acts 1. 3. that our saviour christ after his resurrection conversed 40. days with his apostles , speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of god , i. e. the teaching and governing of his church ; and when he ascended up on high he gave some apostles , some prophets , &c. not only for the work of the ministry , but preventing of false doctrines and schisms , ephes . 4. 11-14 . compared with 1 cor. 12. 25 , 28 , 29. it is evident there was a superiority of office as well as of reverence given to the teachers & governors of the church . for god hath set these several orders in his church , first apostles , secondarily prophets , &c. all are not apostles , nor all prophets , nor all teachers , there were some even by god's institution above others in place and office as well as in reverence ; whereof we cannot expect a better proof than the universal practice of the churches of christ even in the apostles days , and immediately after their decease . for unless we could conceive that all the churches should even in those primitive times conspire together to cast off some other government appointed by christ , and admit of this to which they could have no temptation or inclination , the people and bishops both , being then as sheep appointed to the slaughter , we must needs conclude , that a superiority of office and government , as well as of reverence was their due . now not only the persons that were set over the churches , and had the characters of episcopal power and jurisdiction , are plainly recorded in the writings of the ancients ; but their power and superiority over presbyters and deacons , their supreme care and inspection of the affairs of the church are so fully explained , as if they had been written on purpose to prevent the objections of these later days . for instance , we read in authentick authors of st. james at hierusalem , st. mark at alexandria , timothy at ephesus , titus at crete , crescens at galatia , archippus at caloss , epaphroditus at philippi , gaius at thessalonica , apollos at corinth , linus and anacletus at rome , ignatius at antioch , papias at hierapolis , dionysius areopagita at athens : yea the ancients tell us particularly who were those seven angels of the asian churches that are either approved or reprehended for their government , viz. antipas at pergamus , polycarp at smyrna , carpus at thyatira , sagaris at laodicea , melito at sardis , onesimus at ephesus : and ignatius gives the angel of the church of philadelphia the like character as the spirit of god doth , though i find not his name . it were no great difficulty to set down the successors of divers of these bishops through many ages of the church , together with the dignity and power they had as well over presbyters as people : ignatius and clemens , tertullian and irenaeus ; eusebius and clemens alexandrinus speak largely of them . i shall hope to satisfie the reader with a passage or two out of st. hierome , who is thought no friend of episcopacy , yet in his epistle to evagrius , he says , whatever aaron and his sons and the levites could vindicate to themselves in the temple , the same may bishops , and presbyters and deacons challenge to themselves in the ( christian ) church . here you have a plain distinction of orders . and in his epistle to riparius you have a distinction of power , for speaking of vigilantius an heretical presbyter , he saith , miror sanctum episcopum in cujus parochia esse presbyter dicitur , acquiescere ejus furori , & non virgâ apostolicâ , virgâque ferreâ confringere vas inutile , & tradere in interitum carnis , ut spiritus salvus fiat ; i wonder the holy bishop in whose diocese the heretical presbyter is said to be , doth not restrain his madness , and with his apostolical rod as with an iron rod break that unprofitable vessel , and deliver him for the destruction of the flesh , that his soul may be saved . so that there was a sub and supra by christ's institution , it did not all come from composition and agreement of men among themselves , as mr. hobs and our author do affirm . but if there were indeed a superiority of reverence due to bishops by christ's institution , i fear the author sinned against that institution when he spake so irreverently of them , as in page 226. speaking of contentions between bishops ; private and indifferent persons may as securely be spectators of those contentions in respect of any peril of conscience , as at a cock-fight where serpents fight , who cares who hath the better ? the best wish is that both may perish in the fight . * i know not under what temptation the author was when he wrote this , nor did he himself consider from what spirit it came . st. jude tells us , v. 9. that michael the archangel , when contending with the devil , he disputed about the body of moses , durst not bring against him a railing accusation : but this author ( whether aerius revived , or the ghost of that monster smectymnuus become incarnate , ( no archangel i am sure ) doth not only despise dominions , and speak evil of dignities , but breaths out fire and utter destruction , against episcopacy root and branch . who the contending bishops were of whom he speaks , i have told you in the controversie between victor and polycrates , the one contending too violently for a truth , the other too tenaciously defending an ancient but erroneous custome . the errors of both would extract pity and prayers from any christian spirit , that were sensible of humane infirmities . when there arose a contention among christ's own disciples , luk. 9. 46. which should be the greatest ; and when the dispute about circumcision somewhat like this arose between paul and barnabas , and them that came down from judaea , did christ or his apostles think themselves as unconcerned at these contentions , as at a cock-fight ? or had it been a fit option to wish that they might all perish ? how destructive are the curses of such men , when their prayers , their best wishes are for destruction ? there appears more of the serpent in this rash vote , than in all victor's contention . but our author thinks he may be well excused for this uncharitable vote against bishops , seeing they had so little charity as by their frequent contests to make butter and cheese of one another , p. 220. it is a sad story to read the great violences acted by some bishops , and the indignities and tortures indured by others in that period of time to which socrates confines his history : for in the close of it he says , it contained the history of 140. years from the beginning of constantine's empire unto the 17. consulship of theodosius : in all which time socrates relates with as much sorrow , as our author seems to do with merriment , what agonies and convulsions the arian heresie made in some churches , and the schism of the donatists in others , where the factions ( being cruel and implacable ) as often as they got any power , did not only make butter and cheese but shed the bloud of the orthodox and more peaceable bishops . there are still some such as would gladly reduce them again to butter and cheese , and like vermin corrode and devour them too . if any be of the authors mind , i hope and pray that god would give them repentance , that they may live so peaceably under the bishops of the church here , that they may live eternally with the bishop of their souls hereafter : or if they shall despise my advice , i intreat them to consider that of mr. hales , p. 223. it being a thing very convenient for the peace of the church , ( to have but one bishop in one see , at one time ) neither doth it any way savour of vice or misdemeanor , their punishment sleeps not who unnecessarily and wantonly go about to infringe it . i meet with one observation more fit to be animadverted on under this head which is in page 218 , &c. the third thing i noted for matter of schism , was , ambition , i mean episcopal ambition , shewing it self in two heads ; one concerning plurality of bishops in the same see , another the superiority of bishops in divers sees . aristotle tells us , that necessity causeth but small faults , but avarice and ambition were the mothers of great crimes . he instanceth in the sees of alexandria , constantinople , antioch and rome . i am glad our author found no instances of episcopal ambition nearer home ; if there had been any , in all probability he would have told us of them . if he had been a friend to the episcopal order , he would rather have done as constantine said he was ready to do with his bishops , make his royal robes a covering for their infirmities , than like a cham discover the nakedness of those fathers . the best of bishops are but men , and so are subject to the like passions and infirmities as other men . i have already instanced in the apostles and other disciples of christ ; and certainly it is not christianly done so to aggravate the faults of particular persons as to reflect upon the whole office . besides , our author might have mentioned as many and as dangerous schisms made by covetous and ambitious presbyters as by the bishops ; novatus and novatian , aerius and arrius , donatus and his fellow presbyters , who assumed the episcopal power to themselves , and shed more bloud , and committed more outrages than were done under any instance of episcopal ambition . i will not insist on any foreign comparisons , our late schism at home is so fresh in our memories , and the wounds made by it are yet so open , that there needs no other rhetorick than our own experience , to teach us that the little finger of the presbyterians was heavier than the episcopal loins . let any person sum up together the mischiefs occasioned by the avarice and ambition of bishops for 500 years together in this nation of ours , and i dare engage to demonstrate , that for wickedness in contriving , for malice and cruelty in executing , for pride and arrogance in usurping , for obstinacy and implacableness in continuing and endeavouring still to perpetuate our unparalleled confusions ; though many bishops have done wickedly , yet our presbyterians have exceeded them all . for let me be informed whether for a juncto of presbyters , who had often sworn obedience to their lawful ordinaries , as well as allegiance to their prince , to cast off all those sacred obligations , and dethroning one incomparable prince , to advance many tyrants , and by covenanting against one bishop in a diocess , erect 100 , or 200 , in the same see , and expose all to contempt and misery that would not partake with them in their sins , whose tender mercies mr. hales himself found to be cruel , being deprived of that plentiful estate which he enjoyed under the episcopal government , and reduced to that extremity that he was forced to sell his books for the supply of his necessities : let me be informed i pray , whether this be not more than any bishop ever did or could be guilty of ? such indignities , perjuries , usurpations and cruelties against an equal , as these men have acted against their just , lawful and excellent governors both in church and state , i believe have not been acted since judas betrayed his master . p. 225. our author infers from the scriptures before mentioned , that those sayings cut off most certainly all claim to superiority by title of christianity , except men can think that these things were spoken only to poor and private men . nature and religion agree in this , that neither of them hath a hand in this heraldry of secundum sub & supra . all this comes from composition and agreement of men amongst themselves . the first scripture referred to by our author is , i suppose , gal. 3. 28. there is neither jew nor greek , bond nor free , male nor female ; for ye are all one in christ jesus . here is not a word of high nor low in this nor any other scripture that i can find in our authors sense ; for the apostle only shews , that as to our acceptance by god in christ there is no respect of persons ; but as he had said , verse 26. ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus , no difference from country , relation , sex or condition , but as the king's manuscript , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ye are all christs : i. e. of his mystical body , utcunque alia sunt diversa , as calvin observes , the relation of king and subject , parent and child , husband and wife , master and servant notwithstanding . not that these relations are destroyed , for then christian religion would be of all factions the most intolerable . estius on this place intimates , that lest the galatians should think they got advantages by being in christ , he tells them the jew if he believed was as good as the gentile , the bond as the free , which is therefore first named . and if this sense could be applied to this scripture which our author gives , then might the quakers use it to defend all their rudeness , because there is neither high nor low ; and the family of love for all their carnality , because there is neither male nor female in christ jesus . the second scripture is rom. 12. 10. in giving honour let every one prefer another before himself : which place is so far from licensing any christians to deny honour to those superiors to whom it is due , and strictly injoyned in the next chapter , that it obligeth them to give it to equals and inferiors , as s. bernard says , the first degree of christian humility is , inferiorem se exhibere aequali ; secundus , aequalem se exhibere inferiori ; tertius , inferiorem se exhibere inferiori , in all which the giving honour to our superiors , is not mentioned , being a duty that nature it self doth teach . the assembly gives a right sense of this scripture : christian humility teacheth us not only not to prefer our selves above our equals , nor to equal our selves to our betters , but in some cases to equal our selves to our inferiors . so that we need not think these things were spoken to poor & private men , but were to be the common duties of all christians without prejudice to their particular relations , all which christianity provides for . s. paul instructs timothy , as the servant of the lord to be gentle to all men , apt to teach , patient , in meekness instructing those that opposed themselves . but withal he incourageth him to teach and to command , to rebuke and reprove , to see that no man did despise him , and leaves to him the government and care of the church of god at ephesus . where there is true christianity , there will be as much humility and meekness in the hearts and lives of kings and princes , bishops and priests , as of the meanest peasant . and therefore the monks of bangor were not advised amiss ; that they should know whether austin that was sent by gregory the great to be an arch-bishop , was a servant of god or no , if he did meekly salute them , and behave himself humbly towards them as to his brethren . secondly , both nature and religion agree in this heraldry , that all families and societies of men , and therefore the church of god also , have ever born something in chief ; the father was ever above the son , and the priest , who for a long time was the father of the family , was superior to the people : all did not come by composition and agreement . to evince this , i shall assert these three propositions : 1. that god is to be worshipped , is a dictate of the law of nature . 2. that men ought to gather themselves into assemblies for the worship of god , is a result of the same law. 3. that in those societies there should be a power and government for the preservation of it self is from the law of nature , and by consequence from the law of god , both which have directed a sub and supra in all societies , and ingraven the principles of it in the souls of men . first , that nature teacheth us that god is to be worshipped . this impression we find in adam , not only before , but after the fall , who taught his sons , as well cain as abel , to honour god with their substance . and we read , gen. 4. 3. that in process of time , that is say some , at the revolution of a determined time , which being described to be ( in the original ) at the end of days , others think it to be meant of the seventh or sabbath day , cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering to the lord , and abel also brought of the firstlings of his flock and the fat thereof . whether they brought it to a designed place , or to their father adam as their priest , i shall not now enquire . i shall only give you an observation of the learned doctor outram on this place : that the period of days whereon cain brought his offering , was at the end of harvest , and the time of abels offering was when his flocks were increased , at which seasons both of them being instructed by natural reason ( for no command doth appear ) thought it meet to return to god some part of the blessing given them by god. and whereas it is said , hebr. 11. 4. that by faith abel offered unto god a more excellent sacrifice than cain , which some think could not be said to be done in faith unless it had been in obedience to some command of god ; he consenteth with some others , that this place doth evince the contrary , because if abel had sacrificed according to some express command , we cannot conceive but cain offered upon the same command also , and so might be said to have done it by faith as well as abel , which is contrary to that text which implies that cain did not . whence it may be concluded , that they did neither of them present their offerings by virtue of any command , but according to a dictate of nature imprinted on their souls as an acknowledgment of their several blessings received from him : which if cain a wicked man was inclined to do by the light of nature , how much better may it be said of abel who was a good man ? but it will be demanded , wherein that faith of abel which is so commended did consist ? and the answer is , in that he had so great a respect to the dominion , power and goodness of god the author and giver of all blessings , and lord of life and death , that he thought himself obliged to offer the best of his flocks in testimony of the worship of his creator , and of a thankful mind towards him . and indeed the light of nature might serve not only to direct the family of adam who had so much of the knowledge of god , but others also that were removed into a greater darkness and ignorance , that as the invisible god had manifested his eternal power and godhead to them by things visible , so they ought to agnize and honour their invisible creator and benefactor by offering him some portion of those visible and sensible blessings which he had vouchsafed them . these and such like arguments saith dr. outram , p. 7. did so prevail with the ancients , that they were of opinion that men did first offer sacrifice from an instinct of natural reason and not from any command of god , for which he quoteth many learned authors , and concludes with the opinion of eusebius de demonstratione evangelica , l. 1. c. 10. that cain did of his own accord offer the fruits of the ground , but every good man as abel , noah and abraham did by divine reasoning or understanding sacrifice living creatures ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ) which as the learned doctor proves , cannot be understood of a divine command . i shall add but this one medium more for the proof of my first proposition , that the general instinct and inclination of mankind to worship some thing as god , doth argue that the light of nature doth direct them that god is to be worshipped ; only through the decay and weakness of reason they mistake the object , and are become ignorant of the right manner of serving him , which hath been the cause of all idolatry . and it is very observable that whereas other dictates of nature have been obliterated and disused among divers nations , this hath been constantly and universally observed by all with great solemnity : which is the second proposition , viz. that god must be worshipped by men in society , is according to the law of nature , which i suppose our author doth grant , p. 227. where he saith , it hath been at all times confessed necessary , that god requireth not only inward and private devotion , when men either in their hearts and closets , or within their private walls pray , praise , confess and acknowledge ; but he further requires all those things to be done in publick , by troops and shoals of men. if this was always necessary , then sure before there was any positive command for it , god requiring it by the law of nature , which doth not only teach us that god is to be worshipped , but in such a manner as may best display his excellencies , and manifest that he is glorious in praises , which cannot be done in a corner but in the great congregations , and therefore god so graciously accepted the intention of david and solomon's devotion in building him that great temple at jerusalem , where all the tribes of israel at solemn times should meet together to offer up their prayers , and to give thanks to the name of the lord. and before we read of any precept for this purpose , we find , gen. 4. 26. that in the days of enos the grand-son of adam by seth , that is , as soon as there was a competent number to make a solemn assembly , men began to call upon the name of the lord , viz. in publick assemblies , as the best expositors do interpret it . which farther appears , in that all nations have built temples , set a-part solemn festival days , and instituted priests , and mysterious rites , for the honour of their gods ; which they have done without any previous command or commerce with more civilized or religious nations . as therefore it is said of the rise of nile , which in plentiful streams spreads it self over egypt , and yet the origin of it cannot be found , that it comes from heaven : so these solemnities of assemblies and sacred rites for the worship of god being found to abound every where , and no humane institution can be alledged as the rise of them , we may conclude them to flow from heaven into the souls and consciences of men. but st. chrysostome on hebrews 10. asks how god came to command it ? and he answers , by condescending only , and submitting himself to humane infirmities ; which condescension oecumenius thus expresseth : because men had a conceit , that it was convenient to offer up some part of their substance unto god , and they were so strongly possessed with this conceit , that if they offered it not to him , they would have offered it up to idols ; god ( saith he ) rather than they should offer unto idols , required them to offer unto himself . the third proposition is , that it is a result of the law of nature , that such societies should have a power to preserve themselves . for seeing god nor nature do any thing in vain , and without this power all societies will soon be dissolved and perish , it follows , that both by the law of god and nature those societies that are assembled for the worship of god , should have a power to maintain and preserve themselves . this * mr. hales affirms : there is a necessity of disproportion or inequality between men ; for were all persons equal , the world could not subsist . now this inequality and power implie a superiority in some , and a subordination in others ; for , par in parem non habet potestatem : if every one were left at his own liberty , as none could rule , so none would obey : that therefore there should be both sub and supra is of the same law of nature , without which there could be no government or order at all either in civil or ecclesiastical societies . and seeing , as aristotle observed , that the paternal power was the original of all government , pol. l. 1. c. 2. every father governing his family both as a prince and as a priest in the most ancient times ; it is evident , that both by nature , and religion , there ought to be a sub , and supra ; and if so , our saviour never did nor intended to alter such laws , but to reinforce and to confirm them ; which that he did hath been already proved . however whether this power shall be exercised by one or more persons , and be derived by succession , or applied by election , this is to be regulated according to some positive determination either divine or humane . and if the law of god , or where that is silent ( which i think it is not in the case of sub and supra , in ecclesiastical officers ) the law of man shall set up one or more governors for the government of the church , the persons advanced by such authority ought to have more than a superiority of reverence , namely of obedience and a willing submission in all lawful and honest commands . i conclude therefore with my author , p. 193. communion is the strength and ground of all society , whether sacred or civil : whoever therefore they be that offend against this common society , and friendliness of men , and cause separation and breach among them , if it be in civil occasions , are guilty of sedition or rebellion ; if it be by occasion of ecclesiastical differences , they are guilty of schism . and it shall alway be a part of my litany , from all sedition , privy conspiracy and rebellion , from all false doctrine , heresie and schism , from hardness of heart and contempt of thy word and commandments , good lord deliver us . i shall consider only one instance more of the author 's too great indulgence to schism and heresie ; and then leave it to the reader to judge , whether the opinion of the ancients , as it is generally received by our modern divines , or the fond conceptions of the author , be more agreeable to the nature of the things , or conducing to the peace and prosperity of the church . the instance is that of the second council of nice , of which he says , p. 211. that until that rout did set up image-worship , there was not any remarkable schism upon just occasion of fact . to this our author gives an answer himself , page 201. where he describes schism on matter of fact to be such a separation as is occasioned by requiring something to be done by us , which either we know or strongly suspect to be unlawful ; and concludes , p. 202. that the first notable schism of which we read in the church ( viz. that concerning the observation of easter ) did contain in it matter of fact . now how can these two assertions be reconciled ? that until the schism occasioned by setting up image-worship there was not any remarkable schism upon just occasion of fact ; and that the first notable schism that we read of in the church , ( viz. that about easter ) did contain matter of fact , and it was 600. years before a schism so notable , as that our author thinks , p. 203. all the world were schismaticks . and if our author be right , the occasion of fact was just ; for he determines it to be so , when something is required to be done by us which either we know or strongly suspect to be unlawful . and the asian churches thought it unlawful for them to submit to the authority of the bishop of rome , who would impose on them a rite contrary to an ancient custome of theirs , to be received as a matter of faith : of which before . again , he instanceth in the schism of the donatists which was a complete schism by our author 's own rules ; for they did not only erigere altare contra altare , set up bishop against bishop ( to which , our author observes , that st. cyprian imputed the original of all church-disorders , page 222. ) but they erected also new churches and oratories for the dividing party to meet in publickly , which serves to make a schism complete , p. 196. so that there were notable schismes long before that occasioned by setting up image-worship . to that which follows in our author , p. 211. concerning image-worship set up by the second council of nice i fully accord , that in this the schismatical party was the synod it self and such as conspired with it . for concerning the use of images in sacris , first it is acknowledged by all , that it is not a thing necessary ; 2. that it is by most suspected ; 3. it is by many held utterly unlawful ; and that the injoining of such a thing can be nothing but abuse : and the refusal of communion here cannot be thought any other thing than duty . all this is true ; but our author speaks not the whole truth : he calls that only schism which was heresie in a fundamental point concerning the worship of god according to his express will in the second commandment . and when that council had the confidence to condemn them as hereticks that were the iconoclastae or adversaries to the worshipping of images , we may with more truth account them who were iconolatrae , worshippers of images , hereticks , if not idolaters . by the way let me observe , that if it be my duty to withhold communion from such as set up a false way of worshipping god , as this council did , it is my duty also to withdraw from the communion of such as profess false opinions of the true god , as the arrians , &c. did , to whose assemblies the author sees no reason but we may joyn our selves , p. 215. though this be contrary to his own rule , p. 218. it is alike unlawful to make profession of known or suspected falshoods , as to put in practice unlawful or suspected actions . i hope the reader will not think his patience injured , if on this occasion i give him a brief account how images were first brought into the church of god , and what reception they found in the primitive times ; of both which i shall speak briefly . they were first brought in by lewd hereticks , and simple christians newly converted from paganism , the customs whereof they had not fully unlearned . bishop usher in his answer to maloon , p. 508. gives this particular , that the gnostick hereticks had some images painted in colours , others framed of gold , silver and other matter , which they said were the representations of christ , made while he was in the power of pontius pilate . the collyridians , who at certain times offered cakes to the virgin mary , did also cause images of her to be made . carpocrates and marcellina his companion brought the images of jesus and paul to rome in the time of anicetus , and worshipped them . but the more plentiful seeds of this idolatrous worship were sown by the heathen converts , as epiphanius observes . we have seen the pictures of peter and paul and of christ himself ( saith he ) for that of old they have been wont by a heathenish custom thus to honour them whom they counted their benefactors or saviours . and the arrians and donatists having for a long time rent the church of god and pulled down the fences both of church and state , they made way for vast numbers of infidels to enter , among whom the christians being mixed and living in subjection to them in divers places , they learned this custom also of making and honouring the images of those whom they accounted their patrons and benefactors . men of heretical perswasions were the first that were tainted , worshipping the graves and pictures of their leaders , then these painted toyes insnared the vulgar , and at rome under gregory the second the worship of them is first practised and defended , but at the same time opposed by leo isauricus and his successors . and in a council at constantinople 338 bishops condemned it , anno 754. the primitive fathers having before that time constantly disputed against the very making and painting of images as well as worshipping them , whose testimonies against images it will be in vain to heap up here . i think it enough to observe , that since bishop jewel challenged the church of rome to shew but one authority out of the ancients for setting up of images in the churches and worshipping them , during the first 600 years , there hath not yet been any tolerable reply made . but in the year 787. hadrian being bishop of rome , and tharasius of constantinople , like herod and pilate were reconciled in this mischievous design , and having the opportunity of a female governess ( for dux foemina facti ) they prevailed with irene the mother of constantine to assemble a council at nice ( which the papists call the seventh oecumenical council , but by the ancients was condemned as a pseudo-synod . ) this irene was a pagan , the daughter of a tartarian king , and an imperious tyrannical woman , who in despite to the council of constantinople that had decreed against images , summoned this synod , which she so far defended , that she caused the eyes of her own son constantine to be pulled out because he would not consent to the idolatrous having of images , as bp. jewel observes in the article of images , where you may see more of the ignorance and impiety of this synod . this was the woman that called this meeting of the bishops , and you may guess under what fears they were of the cruelty of that woman who was so unnatural to her son. he that will be satisfied more fully concerning the ignorance of this synod , may read it in their acts mentioned by binius or surius , or in bishop jewel concerning the worshipping of images ( ubi suprá . ) mittens irene convocavit omnes episcopos , saith baronius ad annum 787. ( so that the pope had not then the power of calling councils by the cardinals own confession . ) there was great intercourse of letters between hadrian and tharasius before this council was assembled , which was done at last by tharasius perswading of irene , and then there met 350 bishops , who agreed in this base decree for the adoration of images , as bishop usher calls it . in this synod the question for admission of lapsed bishops and presbyters was first proposed , and although the bishops that were readmitted were tainted with arrianism , as appears by the synods demand , that they should in the first place make an acknowledgment of the blessed trinity ; yet baronius slightly passeth over that , and makes mention only of their submission to that point , which as well the cardinal as that synod chiefly designed to advance , i.e. the worshipping of images . basilius of ancyra , theodorus of myrene , and theodosius bishop of amorium are first called , and these three post confessionem sanctissimae trinitatis ( of which the cardinal says nothing more ) make a large profession of their sorrow for having adhered so long to the iconoclastae or oppugners of image-worship , and present a confession of the orthodox faith ( as he calls it ) in opposition to those errors and hereticks to which they had adhered . now what that orthodox faith was , appears by the confessions mentioned by baronius , wherein they did anathematize them that broke down the images , as calumniators of christians , and such as did assume the sentences that are in the scriptures against idols , and apply them to the venerable images ; with much more to the like purpose . but concerning their reception into the church , the question is greatly agitated ; and the books being produced by which it did appear that athanasius , cyril and other ancient pillars of the church had received notorious hereticks into the church , a bishop of the province of sicilia objects , that the canons of the fathers which had been produced were enacted against the novatians , encratists and arrians , hujus autem haeresis magistros quo loco habebimus ? but in what rank ( saith he ) shall we place the masters of this heresie ? to which it was replyed by a deacon of the same province , that it should be considered , minórne est quae nunc novata est haeresis , an major illis quae hactenus fuere , whether this new-sprung heresie were greater or less than those that were before it . this is resolved by tharasius , malum perpetuò idem est & aequale , that evil is alway the same , which sounding too stoical , one epiphanius a deacon and representative of thomas arch-bishop of sardinia , solves it by saying , that it held true , especially in causes ecclesiastical ( aquibus decretis cùm parvis , tùm magnis errare idem est , siquidem in utrisque lex divina violatur , ) for to erre from such decrees whether in small matters , or great is a contempt of the divine law . but john a monk deputy for the oriental thrones pronounceth this heresie worse than all other heresies , and of all evils the worst , as disturbing the whole oeconomy of christ . however their penitents being but few , for we find not above three or four mentioned , they restore three of them to their dignities , and one other , gregory bishop of neocaesareae , who was judged to be a chief leader of the iconoclastae was admitted only to the communion of the church , not to his bishoprick although he declared for image-worship . but the anathema is denounced against many others who abhorred this idolatrous practice , ( professing they did reject all images made by the hands of men , and worshipped that only , qua filius dei in sacramento panis & vini ante passionem seipsum expressit , ) as did the whole council of frementum , theodosius bishop of ephesus , sisinnius of pastilla , basilius and others . and shortly after charles the great assembleth a council of the bishops of italy , france , and germany at francfort , anno 792. of the transactions whereof we have four books yet extant , in which we have not only the canons of that council , but many imperial edicts for the taking away of images , and forbidding any worship to be given them . sir henry spelman , p. 305. of his first volume of councils acquaints us that charles the great sent a book to offa king of the mercians , wherein images were decreed to be worshipped by this synod of nice : of which he tell us from hoveden , that in that book many things disagreeing and contrary to the true faith were found , especially that images ought to be worshipped , which the church of god doth utterly condemn . and that alcuinus , master to charles the great , but by birth a britan , in an epistle written in the name of the bishops and princes of england , and sent back to charles the great , did wonderfully overthrow that opinion of the nicene council by testimonies of holy scripture , which moved him to call that synod of francfort consisting of 300 fathers , who refuted and condemned this decree of worshipping images : which is the cause ( saith that author ) why the monuments of that synod are suppressed . and i suppose that all the reformed churches , especially the church of england ; cannot but abhor those that established so great an iniquity by a law. i remember the learned doctor jackson , p. 113. of his treatise of the church , saith , that by the self same stroke , by which this council did de facto thrust all other out of the visible church that would not worship images , they declared themselves to be excommunicated de jure , from the holy catholick church , and by consequence from salvation . when therefore our author endeavours by his rhetorical flourishes to make such destructive errors to dwindle into schisms , and allows only the names of schism , p. 213. to arrianism , eutychianism , &c. i thought i had just cause to except against his first paragraph , especially when i found how much it took not only with the fanaticks and some witty men of our days , but with persons of real worth and learning , one of which ( whom i forbear to name ) repeats the whole clause in a book of good note in these words : it is very well observed by a learned and judicious divine ( quoting the tract of schism , which he calls that little but excellent tract of schism ) that heresie and schism as they are commonly used , are two theological scar crows with which they who use to uphold a party in religion use to fright away such , as making inquiry into it , are ready to relinquish and oppose it , if it appear either erròneous or suspicious . for as plutarch reports of a painter , who having unskilfully painted a cock , chased away all cocks and hens , that so the imperfection of his art might not appear by comparison with nature : so men willing for ends , to admit of no fancy but their own , endeavour to hinder an enquiry into it , by way of comparison of somewhat with it , peradventure truer , that so the deformity of their own might not appear . this story of a cock i shall answer with another of a hen ; for i have seen a countrey-man with the picture of a hen pheasant artificially drawn on a stained cloth , and a little pipe to call the cock-pheasants , to draw them from place to place , until in pursuit of their pleasures they have been taken in a snare . the reputation of the author is as a pipe which calls unwary persons to view the pictures on that stained cloth , whereof they that grow too fond may follow them to their own destruction . our author , page 215. gives his advice for the composing of liturgies : were liturgies and publick forms of service so framed , as that they admitted not of particular and private fancies , but contained only such things as in which all christians do agree , schisms on opinion were utterly vanished . for consider of all liturgies that are or ever have been , and remove from them whatsoever is scandalous to any party , and leave nothing but what all agree on , and the event shall be that the publick service and honour of god shall no way suffer . whereas to load our publick forms with the private fancies upon which we differ , is the most soveraign way to perpetuate schism to the worlds end . prayer , confession , thanksgiving , reading of scriptures , exposition of scripture , administration of sacraments in the plainest and simplest manner , were matter enough to furnish out a sufficient liturgy , though nothing either of private opinion , or of church-pomp of garments , of prescribed gestures , of imagery , of musick , of matter concerning the dead , of many superfluities which creep into the churches under the name of order and decency did interpose it self : for to charge churches and liturgies with things unnecessary was the first beginning of all superstition . we have a devonshire proverb — he that builds his house by every ones chop shall never see his ouice drop . if every man's fancy should be complied with , in the framing of a liturgy , it is most certain we should never have any ; seeing as there is scarce any part against which some do not except , so others are offended at the very form , as being a stinting of the spirit ; and the opposing of a directory to the ancient liturgy , shews that this was the sense of the presbyterians themselves , which appears also by this , that when they had in the grand debate given in their objections to the liturgy , some of the brotherhood had prepared another form , but a great part of their brethren objected many things against that , and never as yet did ( that i hear of ) agree upon any other , nor i think ever will. for let it be considered that there is scarce any part of our liturgy which some have not excepted against , and you will find our author's advice impracticable . he himself would have no absolution , as appears , not only by his omission of that office , when he enumerates the parts of a liturgy , but by telling us , that the power of the keys belongs to every one , clergy or lay , male or female , not only for himself , but for the benefit of others , p. 172. and p. 183. that you may as well make your muletter your confessor , as your parish-priest ; others will have no confession ; some are displeased at the responses , others cannot be reconciled to the lord's prayer , against the use of which as the leaders of one faction have printed , so the grandees of another have often preached . the reader knows what sort of people cannot joyn in the gloria patri , the nicene and athanasian creeds , and it is well if they will stand to the apostles . the te deum and magnificat are displeasing to some ; the collects , because they are too short , and the litany because it is too long , to others . some are angry at the prayer for bishops , others not very well pleased with those for the king. if you read what our author saith , p. 60. concerning the sacrament of the lord's supper , ( as 1. that in the communion there is nothing given but bread and wine ; 2. the bread and wine are signs indeed , but not of any thing there exhibited , but of something given long before ; 3. that jesus christ is eaten at the communion-table in no sense neither spiritually by vertue of any thing done there , nor really nor metaphorically nor literally . 4. the spiritual eating of christ of common to all places , as well as the lords table : ) you may see the author was no friend to the office for administration of the lord's supper . and it 's well known who are enemies to that of baptism . our author dislikes the consecration of bishops , to whom he denies any superiority but that of reverence , others oppose the ordination of priests . it is sad to consider at what a distance many of our people yet keep themselves and children from the catechism and confirmation , and the burial of the dead ; only that of marriage they are pretty well reconciled to . so that i say , our author's proposals are impracticable if not impossible to be observed , either to remove from our liturgies whatever is ( i.e. seems ) scandalous to every party , or to leave nothing but what all agree on ; and i think we shall all agree sooner in an universal character and language too , than in such a liturgy . our first reformers have given us undeniable proofs that they were very learned and very good men , and bishop * jewel in their name professeth that they did consult the ancient liturgies of the purest times , and adapted ours to them . the papists condemn us for castrating as much as was thought sinful , must we be still condemned for retaining what is decent ? if any thing in our liturgy had been contrary to the word of god , i am confident the church would have expunged it as soon as its adversaries had discovered it : but if it be quarrelled at for requiring us to worship god according to the apostolical injunction in decency and order , we had rather be accounted beasts of burden in submitting to the lawful ordinances of our superiors , than wild asses for kicking against our masters . it hath alway been the practice of the church of god , conform to the practice of the holy apostles , acts 15. when any opinions or practices contrary to faith or unity began to prevail , to assemble in councils and synods , that by conference and consulting with the scriptures and primitive customes , they might raise a fence against the growing torrent , and as well confirm their own , as confute the opinions and practices of their adversaries : as may be seen in the decrees and canons made in the first 600 years . and when by general consent and subscription these decrees were approved , they did as occasion required insert sometimes into the liturgy such passages out of their own or former articles , as might help to instruct the people in the true faith , and be an antidote against those poisonous errors that were become epidemical . hence first the apostles creed , and the gloria patri , &c. and those being not express enough against prevailing errors , the nicene and athanasian creeds were inserted , and some whole articles were added to the apostles creed . and if , as our author saith , a man may go to an arrian church , so there be no arrianism exprest in their liturgy , why may not ▪ our superiors require our communion in the liturgy which is free from that and all other doctrinal errors ? and whereas our liturgy is in all things conform to our articles of doctrine , which are so free from the exceptions either of calvinists or arminians , as that both parties appeal to it as to the standard whereby they would have their opinions tryed , as appears in the late quiquarticular controversies between doctor heylin and mr. hickman ; i see no reason why they may not upon our author's grounds conform much rather to ours than unto arrian liturgies . a liturgy that hath past many fiery trials , first in the marian days , when the composers of it imbraced it at their martyrdom , after which it appeared so inoffensive to the papists themselves , which i account no small commendation , that for some years after queen elizabeth came to the crown , they omitted not to frequent the use of it , and in the beginning of our troubles when the smectymnuans heated the irons , and made it pass the trial ordeal , its innocency was such that it came off untoucht . and when in the grand debate their successors thought to have blown it up by the fewel which they had heaped together in a mock-liturgy , their plot was so confused and imperfect , that a great part of the brotherhood were of the opinion that the old was better . and i am still perswaded , if it were put to the vote whether this liturgy should be retained , or any other formerly used in the primitive , or now in use among the reformed churches brought into its room , they would give the like suffrage as i have heard sr. harry martyne did when some of cromwels confidents had moved the question , whether they should have a king or no king , that if they must have a king , they had rather have the old gentleman ( meaning king charles of blessed memory ) than any other in the nation . our author begins to treat of conventicles from p. 226. and continueth it to the end . the substance of which i shall present to the reader in these several and divers periods . first , he says truly , that all meetings upon unnecessary occasions of separation are to be so stiled , so that in this sense a conventicle is nothing else but a congregation of schismaticks . and he had before , p. 196. determined them to be schismaticks , 1. that do chuse a bishop in opposition to the former , and 2. that do erect a new church and oratory for the dividing party to meet in publickly . now our author , p. 200. moves the question , who shall judge what is a necessary occasion of separation ? which question , he says , hath been often made but never truly answered ; not because it is a point of great depth or difficulty truly to assoil it , but because the true solution carryeth fire in the tail of it ; for it bringeth with it a piece of doctrine which is seldom pleasing to superiors . to you for the present this shall suffice , if so be you be animo defaecato , if you have cleared your self from froth and grounds , if neither sloth nor fears nor ambition nor any tempting spirits of that nature abuse you ( for these and such as these are the true impediments why both that and other questions of the like danger are not truly answered ) if all this be and yet you see not how to frame your resolution and settle your self for that doubt , i will say no more of you than was said of papias s. johns own scholar , you are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , your abilities are not so good as i presumed . this question is so easie to be resolved , that ( as our author thinks ) every person may settle himself , and resolve what to do in it , if he be animo defaecato , and have cleared himself from froth and grounds , if neither sloth nor fears nor ambition nor any tempting spirits of that nature abuse him . one or more of these impediments it is probable prevailed with our author not to determine the question so plainly as he ought , and most likely that of fear ; because he saith it would be displeasing to superiors , and would carry fire in the tail of it . and doubtless his fears were just , it could not do otherwise than provoke his superiors in a high degree , if he had peremptorily delivered what he intimates in diverse parts of the treatise to be his opinion , and when i shall collect them you will see they carry wild fire and powder-plots in their tails enough to blow up all government . the question is , who should judge what is a necessary occasion of separation ? which question he intends not to leave to the judgment of governors , whom he supposeth to give the occasion and to whom the resolution would not be pleasing , but to those that take the occasion ; and indeed he leaves it to private persons to judge of the laws of their superiors , who if they cannot find will easily seign some occasion to excuse their separation . and our author hath fitted it to their hands , for he informs them , p. 194. that when either false or uncertain conclusions are obtruded for truth , and acts either unlawful or ministring just scruple are required of us to be performed , in these cases consent were conspiracy ; and open contestation is not faction or schism , but due christian animosity . and p. 201. he makes it a just occasion of separation , when something is required to be done by us which either we know or strongly suspect , ( which in our authors phrase is the same with just scruple ) to be unlawful . and again , p. 218. wheresoever false or suspected opinions are made a piece of the church liturgy , he that separates is not the schismatick . so that now there needs no oedipus to unriddle the mystery . for 1. if our governors shall at any time obtrude uncertain conclusions for truth ( how certain soever they be to our governors , if they appear not so to us : ) or 2. if they require something to be done by us , which we may justly scruple or strongly suspect : or , 3. if they shall make suspected opinions a piece of church liturgy ; this is indeed sufficient not only to justifie a separation , but to entitle the separatists to due christian animosity . and our author needed not the spirit of prophecy to foretel that this would be displeasing to governors and carry fire in its tail ; for it strikes directly at the foundation of all government both in church and state. for in both governments when such things are by solemn edicts commanded or forbidden as are apparently good or evil , we are to obey for gods sake ; but where things neither good nor evil by any natural or positive law of god are injoyned by our superiours , it is undoubtedly our duty to submit to them . a scrupling conscience , or the dissent of private judgments to the deliberate determinations of superiors in these cases can be no supersedeas to the obedience that is due from subjects , as hath been already proved from the nonconformists own confessions , and will yet more clearly appear . to which end i shall premise out of dr. owens concessions , p. 408. of his survey of ecclesiastical polity . those pretended errors in our case ( saith he ) are not in matters of faith , nor for the most part in or about the worship of god , or that which is acknowledged so to be ; but in or about those things which some think it convenient to add unto it or conjoyn with it . and what peace , what quietness is like to be in the world , when the sword of vengeance must be drawn about these things ? to which i only reply , let them that draw the sword in such quarrels perish with the sword . god hath put a sword into the magistrates hand , to be a terror to evil works , and if unpeaceable men will not be subject , neither for fear of wrath , nor for conscience sake , but will raise tumults and seditious factions against their lawful rulers upon scruples and punctilio's , they are the aggressors ; and unless the magistrate will suffer the sword which god hath put into his hands , to be wrested from him , he ought to be an avenger to execute wrath upon evil doers , their scruples concerning the lawfulness of such external acts of worship notwithstanding . 2. i premise , that such men as are sound as to the foundation of faith , and careful thereupon to build a holy life , and keep a conscience void of offence towards god and man , ( though in such things as dr. owen hath mentioned , they should not be able through their weakness of judgment , after serious endeavours to get resolution of their scruples ) if they do yield obedience to them that god hath set over them , though they should be mistaken , yet their errors would not prejudice their salvation . and on this ground many of the reformed divines hope well , of multitudes under the roman tyranny , and i doubt not but the nonconformists have so much charity as to have as good hopes of such honest christians as die in the communion of our church . 3. if it should happen that some good and honest men who are both sound in the faith and unblamable in life , do after serious inquiry remain scrupulous still , it is their duty to take the safest way , and that is the way of obedience to their lawful governors , which being a moral duty and strictly enjoyned by the word of god , cannot be dispensed with by scruples about the lawfulness of rites and ceremonies in the external worship of god. and i may safely add , 4. that if honest and well meaning men shall so far indulge to such scruples as to live in disobedience to the laws and constitutions of their superiors , their superiors may justly punish them for so doing , or the frame of their government will soon be turned off its hinges : and governors not being able to discern the hearts of men , may equally animadvert upon all refractory persons , or they must let all go unpunished ; and if they should resolve on this later , farewell all government . and seeing the wisdom of man cannot prevent it , it is better that a few mistaken innocents should be punished , than the peace and foundation of a church or nation be overturned . melius pereat unus quàm unitas . better is a private inconvenience than a publick mischief . this is a foundation necessary to the settlement of all humane laws and constitutions . thus in matters of common right and interest , when the several courts of a nation have established and published rules and orders for the appearances and proceedings of persons litigant , they who omit the time , or mistake the right methods of pleading , and thereupon suffer damage , though as to the merits of their cause they be severely dealt with , yet the proceedings of the law are right and justifiable , because it is more for the publick peace and establishment that some persons should sustain loss for their unwilling neglects and errors , than that all wilful offenders should go unpunished , and publick orders of court be contemned and disobeyed . and this rule holds much stronger in such ecclesiastical cases as are now under our consideration ; because the controversie is not here between private persons , but between superiors and subjects . if therefore one or more private persons purely on mistake , and after humble and serious inquiry for satisfaction ( though i think few sober persons using such means can remain unsatisfied in so plain a case , whether scruples concerning ancient and innocent rites in the external worship of god can justifie disobedience to the constitutions of lawful governors ) should still judge contrary to their governors , who impose such things as lawful and convenient , to be unlawful and superstitious , and thereupon refuse to appear at their courts and be ordered by them ; it is agreeable to the laws of all societies that such persons should not go unpunished . if a child or servant shall neglect to obey his father or master because he hath some scruples against his commands , i think such father or master may without scruple correct that child or servant , or within a short time they will become incorrigible . and the case is almost the same as if the debauched part of the nation , who are morally vicious , should pretend scruples of conscience against such laws of the land as restrain their enormities , suppose of sabbath-breaking and neglecting the publick worship , which yet i think the nonconformists would not judge to be a tolerable plea. i have insisted so long on this argument not only because our author mentioneth it so often , and ever makes it a ground for separation , telling us that not only in reason but in religion too this maxime admits of no release , cautissimi cujusque praeceptum quod dubitas nè feceris ; but often insinuates them to be guilty of schism that do require any suspected thing , as you may see , p. 194. and p. 218. after this pipe all the factions do dance . the presbyterians in their commissioners papers suggest it frequently , whether ecclesiastical constitutions concerning things which are or may become matter of dispute and opposition , are to be allowed . * and john owen for the independents would have some warrant from scripture for every thing that is required in the worship of god. but minding my reader of dr. owen's concessions before mentioned , to which i shall only add the confessions of the presbyterians , who from the beginning opposed our rites and ceremonies not as unlawful , but only as inconvenient , as mr. cartwright did in his second reply , p. 262. and therefore perswaded ministers rather to wear the garments required by law than cease their ministry . and in his evangelical harmony on luke 22. à versu 14. ad 19. saith , that kneeling in receiving the sacrament being incommodious in its own nature , and made more incommodious by popish superstition , is not so to be rejected , that for the sake thereof we should abstain from the sacrament : ( his words are these , geniculatio in participatione suâ naturâ incommoda , superstitione pontificiâ longè facta est incommodior ; nec tamen propterea ita rejicienda , ut ejus nomine à sacramento abstineamus , si ejus caeteroquin participes esse nequimus , quia res suâ naturâ non est purè illicita ) because the thing is not in its own nature utterly unlawful . from whence we may conclude , that such things as are not purely unlawful in their own nature , though they are incommodiously applied and have been grosly abused by popish superstition , are not a sufficient cause to hinder our participation of divine ordinances . and yet to what mischievous ends is this forlorn scruple , of receiving that blessed sacrament on our knees , made use of by fanatick persons as a bar against the receiving of it at all ? though it be a posture sanctified by the son of god when in the days of his being in the flesh he offered up prayers to god , and hath been used by all sober christians in their publick and private devotions , and therefore most agreeable to that solemn office , wherein we cannot with sufficient humility and reverence receive at the hands of god such an ineffable blessing , nor worthily express our humble acknowledgment of thankfulness to god. and in the act of receiving besides our secret supplication to god to pardon and absolve us from all our sins for christ's sake , we joyn with the minister to pray , that the body of our lord jesus christ which was given for us may preserve our bodies and souls to eternal life ; though the church hath used as plain and effectual a mean to prevent our being scandalized , and scrupled at it ( by declaring in the rubrick that no adoration is intended or ought to be done either to the sacramental bread and wine there bodily received , or to any corporal presence of christ's natural flesh and bloud ; for the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances , and therefore may not be adored , for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all christians . and that it was intended for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of christ therein given to all worthy receivers , and for avoiding such disorder and profanation in the holy communion as might otherwise ensue ) as the wisdom of men can invent ; yet the outcry of superstition , will-worship , and idolizing the creatures of bread and wine is kept up , and the hearts of the people filled with invincible prejudices and scruples , to the neglect and contempt of this necessary duty which by christ's institution and by primitive practice ought to be frequently performed , and by the constitutions of the church at least three times every year , but hath been totally omitted by some very adult christians all their lives ; contrary to the advice and practice of former nonconformists as well as to the commands of god and his church . and what can the end of these things be , but hardning the people in their disobedience and ignorance , in uncharitable prejudices and distances from their more pious and peaceable brethren , and provoking their superiors to acts of rigor and severity , unless they will permit all things to run to confusion ? and whereas upon the late test all persons that had any publick office or imployment were required to receive this holy sacrament according to the custome of the church of england , or to forfeit that imployment , not one of an hundred of those scrupulous persons that were concerned continued a recusant : i suppose they have sufficiently convinced the magistrates that the best way of removing these scruples is to require the more frequent practice of that duty under the like penalties . and now i hope the frivolousness of our author's position , p. 218. that wheresoever false or suspected opinions ( and he asserts the same of practising suspected actions in the same period ) are made a piece of the liturgy , he that separates is not the schismatick , doth evidently appear . and if he that separates be not the schismatick , then they that require the performance of a suspected action are so , and by consequence it will be in the power of every scrupulous faction to denominate their governours to be the schismaticks . as our author determineth the case , a man may as innocently disbelieve any article of his christian faith upon this pretence of scruples against them , as disobey the command of his superiors . for ( saith he , p. 194. ) when uncertain conclusions are obtruded for truth , or acts ministring just scruples are required to be performed , consent were conspiracy and open contestation is not faction or schism , &c. and p. 218. he gives this reason for it , it is alike unlawful to make profession of known or suspected falshoods , as to put in practice unlawful or suspected now suppose a subtle socinian should meet with a scrupulous person and tell him , that he doth well indeed to suspend his communion from that church which imposeth those things to be practised in the worship of god , which have no warrant from thence , but are rather condemned as will-worship and superstition ; but yet while he strains at a gnat he swallows a camel , and suffers his conscience to be imposed upon in matters of faith which are of greater concern : and then insinuate , that there is no express text in scripture nor any good argument from reason for a trinity of persons in the unity of the godhead , but both scripture and reason affirm there can be but one supreme eternal god ; and then by wresting the scriptures , and perswading him that the doctrine of the trinity had its rise from ecclesiastical tradition not from the scriptures , and they that require the belief of it do teach for doctrines the commandments of men : suppose , i say , by this leaven the scrupulous humor is fermented and swells up into a strong suspicion , and he begins to grow sowr and discontented with his teachers , and likes the arrian and socinian doctors better ; doth not this man proceed upon the authors grounds , and may be as much justified by them if he turn heretick , as if he become a schismatick ? and indeed there is not one article of our faith but cunning sophisters may work upon persons disposed to scruples to have strong suspicions of them . for mr. baxter tells us in his saints everlasting rest , part 1. ch . 7. sect. 14. that professors of religion did oppose almost all the worship of god out of conscience , which others did out of prophaneness . upon this very pretense some will not hear of infant baptism , nor others of the lord's day , but turn anabaptists and sabbatarians , and for ought i know others may justifie rebellion , and not only the omission of moral duties , but the commission of any vice or impiety . experience hath evidently taught us , that those persons who have been prone to entertain scruples in matters of religion first , have fallen next into sedition and rebellion , and then to impiety and immoralities , to quakerism , atheism , unnatural affection to parents , and acts and practices of as great cruelty and barbarity against themselves as against others . but our author grounds his objection on rom. 14. 23. whatsoever is not of faith is sin ; and he that doubteth is damned if he eat . and this objection seems to be inforced by the authority of bishop sanderson , who p. 228. de obligatione conscientiae ▪ saith thus : if any one through some fast rooted error of judgment do think the law to be unjust which is not so , the obligation of the law doth remain , notwithstanding that error of mind , so that he is not free from sin if he do not obey ; yet that he sinneth more grievously if he should obey , before that error be laid aside . which ease the reverend casuist intended to speak of more at large when he should come to treat of the comparison of both obligations , viz. ( as i suppose ) the authority of the magistrate and of conscience . for i perceive the question to which he makes this an answer was , what assurance that any law is unjust , is required to secure a subject in point of conscience that he is not bound by that law ? but the good bishop never came to that point under which we might have expected his farther judgment in that case ; and therefore i shall take a little pains in finding out his resolution , in some other parts of his writings . answer . the bishop says : if a subject , because that probable reasons do appear on both sides , knoweth not nor can determine whether a law be just or no , so that his judgment hang in aequilibrio not knowing to which to incline ; in this case the subject is bound actually to obey ; so that he sinneth if he do not obey , and if he do obey he sinneth not . now i observe , that when the bishop comes to give his reasons why a subject should obey against a scrupulous conscience , the same reasons do require his obedience though his scruples he inveterate and obfirmed , yea in things doubtful , as by these following reasons of his may appear . his first reason is , because by a reason of law , in dubiis potior est conditio possidentis ; therefore where there is a contest concerning a right betwixt the lawgiver and the subject , the right is alway to be presumed to be on the lawgivers side , as being in possession of the right , unless some fit reason can be given to the contrary : but in this case ( i. e. in things doubtful ) no such fit reason can be given , because it would destroy the supposition , which is , that the things are equally doubted of . a second reason is taken from another rule of law , that in a doubtful case the safer part is to be chosen : and it is certainly more safe to obey with a doubting conscience , than not to obey with a doubting conscience ; because secondly it is safer in giving honour to superiors to exceed that measure which we owe , than to be defective in it . thirdly because from the same rule it is generally more safe that he who is free should think himself bound , than that he who is bound should think himself free : for seeing through the natural pravity of mans heart he sinneth more often through too much confidence than through too much fear , and we are more prone to carnal licentiousness than is fit , and we are all too impatient to bear the yoke ; unless we do with full purpose of mind resolve to obey such laws as are not evidently unjust , the wisdom of the flesh and the craft of the serpent thereunto added , will often suggest such excuses as will hinder us from doing our duty in this respect . in his sermon on rom. 14. 23. the bishop first shews what a doubting conscience is , namely when the scales hang even , so as a man cannot well resolve whether way he should rather take , sect. 25. which he says , may be because reasons seem to be probable pro and con , and there are learned men of the one opinion as well as of the other ; and sect. 28. he says , if the liberty of the agent be determined by some superior power to whom he oweth obedience so as he is not sui juris ad hoc , to do or not to do at his own choice , but to do what he is commanded ; this one circumstance quite altereth the whole case , and now he is bound in conscience to do the thing commanded , his doubtfulness of mind whether that thing be lawful or no notwithstanding . and afterward he adds : truly it is a great wonder to me that any man endued with understanding , and that is able in any measure to weigh the force of those precepts and reasons which bind inferiors to yield obedience to their superiors , should be otherwise minded in cases of like nature . whatever is commanded us by them whom god hath set over us either in church , common-wealth or family ( quod tamen non sit certum displicere deo , saith s. bernard ) which is not evidently contrary to the law and will of god , ought of us to be received and obeyed no otherwise than if god himself had commanded , because god himself hath commanded us to obey the higher powers , and to submit our selves to their ordinances . and in the close of the 29 sect. if the conscience be only doubtful whether the thing be lawful or no , but have not as yet passed a peremptory judgment against it ( yea although he rather incline to think it unlawful ) in that case if the magistrate shall command it to be done , the subject with a good conscience may do it , nay he cannot with a good conscience refuse to do it though it be dubitante conscientiâ . and he is positive , p. 240. de obligatione conscientiae , that there is no reason nor shew of reason yet given why the power of determining and appointing things indifferent should not oblige in ecclesiastical as well as in civil affairs . pardon the repetition of the arguments ; because as diamonds are not cut but by diamonds , so i could not presume of explaining his meaning but by himself . and if the reader will but add to this , what mr. falkner hath said concerning this objection from rom. 14. 23. he may easily perceive that neither that text nor any conclusions to be drawn from it can be prest for the service of our separatists . for as he says , p. 425. this rule must be applyed to the special case intended , which is , that wherever the omitting any action is certainly free from sin , and the practice of it appeareth to any person doubtful , there to do that action is a very evil and dangerous practice , because it containeth in it a chusing to run the hazard of sin , which choice is alway a sin . but the case is much different when both acting and forbearing may be doubted of , where the one of them is a duty , and it is impossible that both of them should be forborn . for god having commanded superiors to rule and inferiors to obey , to suspend all action here is to perform an inward moral action of choice about a matter of duty , which if it be not regularly managed is a sin . and in this case so far as concerneth the obedience of a child , servant or subject , they ought to account their superiors command to lay such an obligation upon them to duty , that they must be guided thereby , unless they be able to prove themselves bound to act the contrary . having thus removed the objection concerning doubts and scruples , i may take liberty to recreate my reader with a known story of a scrupling house erected in oxford by some of the visitors , anno 1646. there was in s. peters the east a place set a part for all people that were dissatisfied or troubled in mind to meet in every tuesday , for resolution of their doubts in a plain and familiar discourse . many sermons were preached to commend the usefulness of that ordinance , which they grounded on several places of scripture . one day while hen. wilkinson , sen. was chair-man , and mr. reynolds , harris , temple , cornish , lungly and cheynel were set down with him , some souldiers of the independent party , erbury , grymes , hewson and others came to visit the visitors , and after a while erbury proposeth his doubt , whether in the church of christ the ministery was committed to certain select men , for he thought all the gifted brethren might preach ; and declared his readiness to dispute it with them : but the _____ pretending an order , agreed upon for delaying the resolution of scruples a week after the first proposal , put off the dispute until the next meeting . which being noised through the university , a great concourse of gentlemen , scholars and souldiers attended it . and erbury who had been sometime of brasen-nose colledge , after a bold prologue begun the comedy , affirming , that in the church of christ there was no commission given to select men for preaching the gospel . and after some discourse about stating the question , erbury urgeth , that if they had such a commission it was either ordinary or extraordinary . the answer was , that it was ordinary . he replies , then they had it from the bishops , or some others . at which the doctores resoluti were unresolved what to answer ; for if they should say from the bishops , they feared to displease the people to whom they had often preached that they were antichristian , and yet they could not deny it , they having been all episcopally ordained . and so being put into some confusion , and not replying directly , but seeking subterfuges , the souldiers were with great acclamations proclaimed victors , and the scrupling house shut up , and the comedy ended . but nondum finitus orestes . i wish the tragedies occasioned by these scruples were ended also . but quousque tandem ? how long will these scrupulists halt between god and baal , between the reasonable service of god in his publick worship , and the unreasonable suggestions of those imperious masters that lord it over their consciences ? they that inject these scruples to the minds of younger and weaker persons are for the most part men of age and competent understanding , and in so long a time as they have been in travel with them , and knowing that as well their own temporal and eternal happiness as the establishment of the church and state depends on the resolution of them , it may rationally be expected that after their mutual conference with one another in divers assemblies to that end , and their solemn seeking of god , they should have been able to discover where the sinfulness of these things which they scruple at doth lye ; or , that not being yet done , nor i think possible for wiser men than themselves to do , they should deliver the nation and themselves from those throws and pangs which such false conceptions have occasioned . and when the inventors of state fears and jealousies have been ashamed and confounded upon the discovery and punishment of their villanous designs , it is strange that men of such tender consciences as our church-reformers pretend to be , should feel no regret for all those real mischiefs and confusions which their fond suspicions and scruples have occasioned . others may call this morose humour , conscience and constancy , but in truth it is nothing else but a stubborn contumacy and a proud contempt of superiors . for a grand principle on which government doth subsist , is , that inferiors do submit their own judgments to the decrees of their superiors in order to publick peace , which the apostle plainly requires , submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake , so that nothing can excuse our disobedience to governors but their requiring something contrary to the command of god. when therefore they injoyn some things that are not unlawful in themselves , and by reason of some scruples we refuse to obey them ; our very scrupling manifests that we know not , but they may be agreeable to god's will , and therefore our not obeying is a violation of the law of god as well as of our superiors . the greater authority always makes void the less . a master cannot oblige his servant against the command of his prince , nor a prince against the command of god ; nor can our private consciences in any thing for which we have not a command from god , oblige us against the decrees of our prince . and when in all other things we submit our selves to the determinations of others that are wiser than our selves , as in matter of health to the prescripts of physicians , in matters of right to counsel of lawyers ; i see not any reason why we should not in the externals of religion submit our selves to them that have the rule over us as god hath commanded : unless we will give this as a reason , that we think our selves wiser and better than they , and that every man should be left to his own liberty , which is as much as in us lyeth to make void the ordinance of god. besides , the nature of those things that come in competition ought to be considered . the magistrate injoyns such things for decency and uniformity in the worship of god , as after mature deliberation consulting the word of god and the precedents of the most pure and primitive times he hath found to be most for edification ; and the things which he injoyneth others he practiseth himself , which he would not do if he had not found them to be the best . now if he be mistaken , it is but in an indifferent or disputable thing , the observance of which by himself or his subjects , provided they be men that follow peace and holiness , will not prejudice their salvation . now on the subjects side there lies at stake the great duty of obedience to governors , of reverence and decency in the publick worship of god , of charity and unity with their brethren , wherein if they be peccant , they withhold from caesar the things which are caesars , and from god the things that are god's , and from their brethren the duties which they owe to all men , with whom as far as it is possible , and as much as in them lyeth they ought to live peaceably . and can a little mistake or irregularity in external worship , if such should happen , be thought so great an evil , that for avoiding of it , we should throw our selves over the precipices of disobedience to rulers , a contempt of god's solemn worship , and living in debate , contention and perpetual vexation of our brethren ? those things that are immutably and essentially good or evil ought more to be heeded than those which are such uncertainly and by accident or circumstance only ; and no good man to avoid a doubtful scruple will run himself into a certain sin . in such things therefore as i have now discoursed of , it is certainly more safe to erre with our rulers than to be in the right against them . and thus i have discarded that maxime of our authors , which he saith not only in reason but in religion too admits of no release . page 228. our author saith — while men were truly pious , all meetings of men for mutual help of piety and devotion , wheresoever and by whomsoever celebrated , were permitted without exception . it is great pity but it had been so , yet that it was so will not appear . for i suppose our author doth not mean by men truly pious , those that were governors ; for the more pious they were , the more care they alway had of the publick worship , and such as would not joyn in it , gave occasion to have their piety questioned . for why , saith our author , should men desire to do that suspiciously in private which warrantably may be performed in publick , p. 230. he must therefore be understood of pious christians that met for the worship of god in times of corruptions and persecutions , as he expresseth it . now that such meetings wheresoever and by whomsoever celebrated were permitted without exception , whoever shall but run over the ecclesiastical history will find exceptions enough against it . were not christ and his apostles and such converts as met with them truly pious , and * yet their meetings were in great fear of being disturbed , and they were persecuted as no friends to caesar , but such as turned the world upside down . and did not our saviour foretel his disciples how they should be hated and persecuted for his sake ? never were there more pious and peaceable christians than under the emperors of rome that preceded constantine , yet they did generally by them , as pilate by the galileans whose bloud he mingled with their sacrifices , and haled all such to torments as would not deny christ and burn their bibles , and offer incense to the pagan gods. trajan was one of the mildest of those emperors , and pliny the younger being required to certifie the practices and behaviour of the christians in his days , acquainted the emperor , that they did meet together in the night and sung hymns to christ as to their god , which was their only crime ; for as to other things , they bound themselves by an oath not to run into any wickedness , not to commit thefts , murders or adulteries , not to break their promises or withhold any thing committed to their trust , l. 10. epist . 97. and yet besides those famous bishops , ignatius , clemens , anicetus , many thousands of pious christians were martyred ; the heathen were so far from permitting their meetings howsoever and by whomsoever celebrated , that they hunted out private christians , and upon their confessions that they were so they were instantly condemned . if a legion of witnesses will suffice , i shall produce that of the noble thebean legion , consisting of 6666. souldiers , who when maximinus was emperor and prepared to fight his enemies , though they had often given testimony both of their valour and fidelity to his predecessors , and had by the accustomed oaths sworn the same to him , ( which oaths vegetius de re militari , l. 2. sets down in these words , jurant per deum , christum & sanctum spiritum , & per majestatem imperatoris , quae secundùm deum generi humano diligenda est & colenda , omnia se strenuè facturos quae praeceperit imperator , nunquam deserturos militiam , nec mortem recusaturos pro romana republicâ ) were yet required to lustrate or expiate themselves by offering sacrifice to the heathen gods ; which they refusing to do , jointly professing themselves to be christians , he decimates the whole legion , and slays every tenth man with the sword , and afterward requires the same impiety from the rest ; but their chief commanders who deserve serve to be mentioned in all histories , mauritius tribune of the legion , exuperius their standard-bearer , and candidus one of the senatorian order , exhorting them to constancy in the christian faith , being required to bring their legion to the emperor at octodurus , and there perform those pagan rites , answered , that they were ready in all things to obey the emperors commands in fighting against his enemies , only being christians they could by no means sacrifice to his gods. whereupon they suffered another decimation ; at which the remainder of the legion were so far from being daunted , that they all professed themselves of the same resolution , and should rejoyce to obtain the same honour of martyrdom . whereupon the emperor ordered his army to fall on them , and cut them in pieces , which was accordingly done , not one of them seeking an escape . baronius ad annum 297. nor were these massacres only committed in the times of the ten persecutions , but afterward when some christian emperors infected with arrianism had the power , they made havock of the peaceable and orthodox christians , and denyed them the priviledge of publick or private meetings . and our author himself observes , p. 228. that christian meetings under pagan princes , when for fear they durst not come together in open view , were charged with foul imputations , as by the report of christians themselves plainly appears . and again , p. 227. that time had taken leave to fix this name ( of conventicles ) upon good and honest meetings , and that perchance not altogether without good reason . which reason he expresseth , p. 228. it was espied that ill affected persons abused private meetings for religion to gross impiety , and therefore both church and state jointly gave order for forms , times and places of publick concourse , and all other meetings besides those of which both time and place were limited , they censured for routs and riots and unlawful assemblies in the state , and in the church for conventicles . upon which our author concludes , p. 229. it is not lawful no not for prayer , hearing , &c. for people to assemble otherwise than by publick order is allowed . but notwithstanding this concession our author having distinguis●ed between times of corruption and incorruption , he says , p. 230. that in times of manifest corruptions and persecutions , wherein religious assembling is dangerous , private meetings , however besides publick order , are not only lawful but they are of necessity and duty . and this he supposeth a competent plea as well for the papists in our days as for the protestants in queen maries dayes : for else ( saith he ) how shall we excuse the meetings of christians for publick service in time of danger and persecutions , and of our selves in queen maries days ? and how will those of the roman church amongst us put off the imputation of conventicling , who are known amongst us privately to assemble for religious exercise against all established order both in church and state ? — now i willingly grant that in times of manifest corruptions and persecutions , such as the roman and marian were , private meetings are lawful and necessary duties ; because , if men do forbid what god hath commanded , it is better to obey god than man : but this rule will not hold with that latitude which our author annexeth to it , that such meetings are lawful however besides publick order : and p. 231. however practised . for suppose that dioclesian or queen mary had published their edicts that on such days such a number of christians or protestants should meet and worship god in publick places allowed them for that purpose , or as by the late act of parliament , any family not admitting above five for religious exercises were tolerated ; it had been their duty to acquiesce in such an indulgence , and not by meeting in greater numbers and in places and times prohibited to provoke their governors . for certainly god hath committed to the soveraign authority a power of regulating the external exercise of divine worship , nor can the irregularity of good men make void that ordinance of god. and therefore our author concludes amiss when he sayes , that all pious assemblies in times of persecution and corruption , however practised , are indeed or rather alone the lawful congregations : and publick assemblies though according to form of law are indeed nothing else but riots and conventicles , if they be stained with corruption and superstition . a doctrine that is very pleasing both to the papists and other sectaries , who being perswaded that we are corrupted and they are persecuted , may be incouraged once again to set up the good old cause , that is , the overthrow of monarchy and episcopacy in this nation , and the setting up of popery and anarchy in their rooms . mr. hales tells us in his sermon on luke 18. 1. p. 134. of his golden remains , that tully observed that antony the orator being to defend a person who was accused of faction and sedition , bent his wits to maintain that sedition was good , and not to be objected as a fault : our author hath strained his wits to do the like by schism , and so far to excuse separation as ordinarily to lay the blame thereof upon superiors , and to make them the schismaticks as often as they endeavour to vindicate their authority in lawful things against such , as find any scruples against obedience to their commands . which mr. hales shall answer for me : the taste of liberty is so sweet , that except kings maintain their authority with as great violence , as the people affect their liberty , all things will run to confusion . sermon on john 18. 36. p. 149. the end . mr. baxter's arguments for conformity , against separation : by which the most material parts of mr. hales's tract of schism are confvted . every tender conscience should be as tender of church-division and real schism , as of drunkenness , whoredom , or such other enormous sins , james 3. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. mr. baxter 's reasons for christian religion , p. 485. s. 34. london , printed for walter kettilby , 1678. imprimatur , c. alston r. p. d. hen. episc . lond. à sacris domesticis . to the reader concerning the pretence of conscience for separation . the conscience of man is a very sacred thing ; the great king hath made it his chancellor to determine of such cases as are not plainly determinable by his law , and hath given it a large empire and power to absolve or condemn . of this seneca divinely informs his lucilius ( epist . 41. ita dico , mi lucili , sacer intra nos spiritus sedet , malorum bonorúmque nostrorum observator , & custos hic prout à nobis tractatus est , nos tractat ) there is a sacred spirit residing within us observing and recording all our good and evil actions , and as this is dealt with by us , so it deals with us . if our consciences be first rightly informed , and then duly consulted with and obeyed , there is not a safer guide , a better comforter , nor a more impartial judge : for ( it is magni illius judicii praejudicium ) as that acquits or condemns us , so have we confidence towards god , 1 jo. 3. 20. it ought therefore to be our great care that our hearts do not reproach us for any wilful transgression of the laws of god , or such as he hath set over us , whom he hath required us to obey for conscience sake . and in the next place it is our duty tenderly to commiserate such weak brethren whose consciences being really doubtful of the lawfulness of those actions which are required of them , dare not obey till they obtain a fiat from them ; but while they suspend their duties are peaceable and faithful in the land , and humbly and industriously seek for satisfaction from them whom god hath set over them . and truly i have not more charity for many thorow conformists , than for such meek and teachable dissenters . and i doubt not but their rulers and spiritual fathers would deal with them in all gentleness and long-suffering , with familiar and easie methods to inform their judgments , and reconcile their affections to the knowledge and practice of the truth . but alas ! how small is the number of such , among them that pretend conscience , not in things doubtful and undetermined , but against plain and express commands in the laws of god and their superiors , and under that pretence seek to be justified in notorious and scandalous impieties ? who can without indignation recount the horrible villanies and mischiefs that have been acted in our generation under this pretence ? or who can sufficiently deplore the contumacy and opposition of such as pretend conscience against the means which god hath appointed for their information ? the case seems to be well represented in the entertainment of the angels among the sodomites : ( for conscience as an angel of god is with a commission to save or to destroy ) and in genesis 19. we read only of lot who with great humility and respect met them , and bowing his face to the ground , with great importunity pressed them to take their repose with him ; and he washed their feet and feasted them , and they delivered him from that great overthrow . but the men of sodom , old and young , from all quarters offered violence to them , and would have prostituted them to their unnatural lusts . and do not they declare their sin to be like that of sodom , who stifle the good motions of this guardian-angel , and make it an instrument and pander to their carnal lusts ? incessantly abusing it as the gibeathites did the levites concubine , even to death , judges 19. and if a righteous lot intercede for it , how do they reply as the sodomites did , this fellow is come to sojourn , and he will needs be a judge . now will we deal worse , with thee than with them , gen. 19. 9. but the punishment of the one should make the other to tremble and do no more so wickedly , lest those angels of light leave them in darkness , and rain something most like to fire and brimstone , even horror and despair into their souls . but beside these wilful persons there is a sort of weak people among us , who have so intangled themselves in nets of their own weaving , partly through ignorance , prejudice and evil education , and partly by melancholy and superstitious apprehensions , fearing where no fear is , and taking their own fancies and shadows for ghosts and spectres , and lastly by the dark suggestions of seducing spirits who despair of making any to be of their perswasion till they have frighted them out of their wits , that it is with them as sometime it was with the people of rome ( nec ferre vulnera possunt , nec remedia ) they can neither endure their wounds nor suffer the remedies . by their long striving against their prince , their priests and their own reason , they are so wounded and ensnared , that though their grievances be almost intolerable , yet they dread to disclose them or to use the advice of such physicians as upon their submission might through god's blessing heal and restore them . every quack that can administer opium , or stupifie the part affected , is more acceptable to them than a colledge of able physicians who discerning the cause could with more easie methods and at a cheaper rate cure their distempers . for the nets that entangle most of these , are but like the spiders webs , strong enough to captivate them out of whose bowels they were spun : but a man of reason may dissipate them with the breath of his mouth . the lion in the fable was once thus intangled , and all his strugling did but involve him more : yet when he was toyled and lay quiet , a very little animal came and corroding the threads set the royal captive at liberty . there needs no great art if they would be patient and follow regular prescripts , to reduce such men to a sense and enjoyment of their christian liberty . if they would but follow the best of their own leaders , two of which i have hereafter proposed to them , their arguments and practices might soon undeceive them . for in truth it is not conscience but nice scruples , false opinions and prejudice and disaffection to the lawful guides and physicians of their souls , and a fond admiration of some cunning persons that lay in wait to ensnare them , and keep them in bondage , that they may make merchandise of them , which have so perplexed them . can that be conscience that causeth men to strain at a gnat and swallow camels ? to start at a shadow and throw themselves over precipices ? so to abhor a ceremony as to commit sacriledge , and rob the church of christ of his last and best legacy , that of peace ? can conscience perswade a man who confesseth his own ignorance ( by his doubting ) to judge of the things in controversie , to conclude that his superiors are in an error , and that they who disobey and oppose them are in the right ? or can we think that they did cast themselves out of their own cures on a principle of conscience , who against all good conscience intruded upon other mens and still invade their rights ? is it conscience that teacheth them to interpret the actions and constitutions of their superiors in the worse sense , and by their corrupt glosses to make faults where they can find none ? is it conscience that causeth men who are under oaths and obligations of obedience and peace , to withdraw causelesly into factious and seditious assemblies to the disturbance of the church and state , where they might lead quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty ? is it conscience that teacheth men to scruple at ceremonies , and to omit the weighty matters of the law ? or can we think that they do really believe in their consciences that to live in conformity to the church of england is a sin , who do educate their children ( the care of whose souls next to that of their own is incumbent on them , ) in such professions as will necessarily engage them to be conformists ? the ancient nonconformists thought themselves bound in conscience to use their utmost endeavours to prevent separation from the church of england , and to ingage their people to frequent the publick worship . and can it be a point of conscience in the present nonconformists so industriously to promote separation , and as much as in them lyeth to bring the publick worship into contempt ? or can they pretend conscience for despising the prayers of the church , who at the same time reject our lords prayer also ? is it conscience that makes private and illiterate men to think themselves wiser and better than their rulers and spiritual guides , whom god hath set over them ? is it conscience that doth dispense with the same men to conform and communicate with the church when they are required to do so under some present and severe penalty ( as on the late test ) and to shun it at other times ? lastly , who can believe that they err through weakness or doubtfulness of conscience , who refuse to make use of those obvious and probable means for their satisfaction , which god hath appointed for them ? that is , in such doubtful cases which their own son cannot determine , to consult with those to whom god hath committed the conduct of their souls . for what is conscience but a mans judgment concerning things and actions according to gods word , and right reason inlightned and directed thereby ? for , seeing the word of god hath not particularly determined of all things and actions , we ought by our reason comparing one place of scripture with another and drawing conclusions from them , to be guided and acted in such things as are not determined in scripture : and if our own reason be too short-sighted and dull , to apprehend the nature of the things doubted of ; we ought to use such instruments and helps as god hath provided , who hath said by his prophet , that the priests lips should preserve knowledge , and the people should seek the law at his mouth , for he is the messenger of the lord of hosts , mal. 2. 7. where the peoples duty is plainly asserted . and by his apostle , that we should know them that are over us in the lord , 1 thess . 5. 12. and heb. 13. 17. obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls as they that must give account , &c. but as mr. baxter complains , p. 570. of his saints rest , few of the godly themselves do understand the authority that their teachers have over them from christ , they know how to value the ministers gifts but not how they are bound to learn of him and obey him because of his office . — people are bound to obey and learn of their teachers , as scholars of their masters . and if the people were as willing to do their own duties , and as apt to learn of their ministers as they are forward to teach them , or blame them for not doing theirs , they might soon ease their consciences of much guilt as well as of many doubts and scruples , whereby for want of an humble and teachable spirit they so much trouble themselves and others . and it is but reasonable , that the established clergy of the church of england should expect as great a submission from their people as the worcester ministers who required their people to acknowledge in these words : i ... do consent to be a member of the particular church of christ at .... whereof .... is teacher and overseer , and to submit to his teaching and ministerial guidance and oversight according to god's word . those men therefore whose consciences are truly tender , ought in doubtful cases , to apply themselves to the means which god hath instituted ( and will therefore most probably bless ) for their information ; as first , their own pastor ; or if he be thought defective , some neighbour minister , of whom the doubting person hath a good opinion for his parts and piety ; if no such can remove his doubts , he seems to me to be a person capable to read the works of learned men that have written of the things in controversie , and he may take in the help of foreign divines , and perhaps inquire into the practice of the church in the most pure and primitive ages . and if he find that they do all agree , as mr. hooker and mr. baxter say , that the certain commands of the church we live in , are to be obeyed in all things not certainly unlawful , i cannot think that such as will still pretend doubts , and espouse parties , and disobey their governors , and promote schism and divisions , do erre out of weakness of conscience , but out of pride , and stubbornness , through great prejudices or for some little interests and concerns of their own , which they value more than the peace of the church . now that man doth judge extremely uncharitably of his rulers , whose consciences are as tender , and their judgments better informed than his own , and who being at liberty to choose and propose what may most conduce , as well to their own , as the peoples salvation , shall upon mature deliberation in solemn assemblies appoint such a discipline and rites as they think most agreeable to the word of god and the practice of the purest churches in all ages ; that man , i say , must judge most uncharitably of them who should think that they impose on him any thing that is unlawful , ( without a very clear evidence of its unlawfulness ) seeing that therein they should not only wound their own consciences and hazard their own salvation , but draw upon themselves the guilt of the peoples sins , by establishing iniquity by a law , and incouraging the people to comply with it by their examples , and so like jeroboam make the israel of god to sin. but if in a deed done by a doubting person , at the command of one that is indued with lawful authority , there be a sin , it must go on his score that requireth it wrongfully , not on his that doth but his duty in obeying ; nor is the salvation of an obedient subject hazarded by a peaceable compliance with his superiors commands in such doubtful and disputable actions . bishop sanderson resolves a case that will put this out of doubt , sermon on rom. 14. 23. p. 92. a prince commandeth his subjects to serve in his wars , it may be the quarrel is unjust , it may be there may appear to the understanding of the subject great likelihoods of such injustice , yet may the subject for all that fight in the quarrel , yea he is bound in conscience so to do , nay he is deep in disloyalty and treason if he refuse the service , whatsoever pretensions of conscience he may make for such refusal . mr. baxter speaks almost as much , p. 461. of his five disputations : every war that is unlawfully undertaken by the prince , is not unlawful in all his souldiers . some of them that have not opportunity to know the evil of his undertaking , may be bound to obey ; the case of others i determine not . but a greater than he ( as i have shewn ) hath determined it , and the practice of the primitive christians , which stoutly fought the battels of heathen emperors , have confirmed that determination . now it is worthy of our consideration , to think what manner of souldiers such scrupulous persons would make in case of a war begun against a just prince by some of his subjects , that should pretend a reformation of the laws , and arm themselves to redress abuses in the administration of justice , can we think , that they who are apt to disobey upon i know not what scruples of the lawfulness of innocent rites and ceremonies injoyned by his authority , will be ready to fight against their brethren ( that herein agree with them ? ) would they not rather side against him , ( as their predecessors have done ? ) i suppose there are very few that are scrupulously factious in the church , but would in such a case be seditious and rebellious in the state. i am sure they would find more plausible pretences , as , that the prince commands such things as are to their consciences unlawful , and that they durst not ingage with him , lest they draw innocent bloud upon their heads ; they think they are rather bound to help the lord's people against the mighty , to rebuke even kings for their sakes , and if they see it meet ; to bind their kings with chains and their nobles with fetters of iron , and to execute upon them the judgment written : this honour have all his saints . and yet that learned casuist says , that the fears of such scrupulous persons need not trouble them , no not in this grand case , lest they should bring upon themselves the guilt of innocent bloud ; for the bloud that is unrighteously shed in such a quarrel , he must answer for , that set them on work , not he that spilt it . is damnum dat , qui jubet dare ; ejus verò nulla culpa est , cui parére necesse est : he doth the wrong that commands it to be done , not he whose obedience is a necessary duty . and truly ( says the same casuist ) it is a great wonder to me , that any man endued with understanding , and that is able in any measure to weigh the force of those precepts and reasons which bind inferiors to yield obedience to their superiors , should be otherwise minded in cases of like nature . for whatsoever is commanded us by those whom god hath set over us either in church , common-wealth or family ( quod tamen non sit certum displicere deo , as saith st. bernard ) which is not evidently contrary to the law and will of god , ought of us to be received and obeyed no otherwise than as if god himself had commanded it ; because god himself hath commanded us to obey the higher powers , and to submit our selves to their ordinances . and if these things should not be so , either government or christianity would in a short time be rooted out as incompetent one with the other , for by such men christ is really represented as an enemy to caesar ; and the event will be , to have him crucified again in his members , and put to open shame . the preface to mr. baxter's arguments . the same wise and gracious providence of almighty god which over-ruled the actions of those armies that had kept us long in confusion and made them instrumental for the setling of peace in the state , hath so directed the consultations and publick transactions of such as intruded on the affairs of the church , that if they would practise according to their own principles , and acquiesce in their own arguments , we might see peace and unity established also in the church . for besides the arguments of the non-conformists before 1642. who both by example and publick writings shewed their abhorrence of open separation , i do confidently affirm , that if there were a collection made of those reasons which were urged by the presbyterians to prevent the other factions from separating from them , as well in their annotations , assemblies , publick debates , sermons , books of schism , separation , &c. there needed no other security to the people of this nation , that they might with good conscience conform to the publick worship of god as it is now established . i have formerly published mr. calvin's arguments to this purpose , and now i present the reader with mr. baxter's , not only because i thought them most rational and perswasive , but because i believe he was not acted by ( a studium partium ) any ambitious or private design , but intended them as an irenicum to perswade peace and reconciliation between all sober dissenters . and i hope he will pardon me for prosecuting his own design , while i do it in his own words published in several treatises since he first set forth his saints everlasting rest , in the epistle to which he tells us he should fear of being a firebrand in hell , if he should be a firebrand in the church . i was much moved to see what odium he contracted from some of his brethren , of whom he deserved better things , for endeavouring to heal our divisions ; yet was he not ashamed to write himself in the title page of his second admonition to bagshaw , a long-maligned and resisted endeavourer of the churches unity and peace ; and in pag. 11. of that book , he thus declares his christian temper and resolution . if injuries or interest would excuse any sin , i think there are few ministers in england who have more inducement to the angry separating way than i have ; but shall i therefore wrong the truth and church of god and my own and others souls ? god forbid ! and page 52. he farther tells us — i repent that i no more discouraged the spirit of peevish quarrelling with superiors and church-orders , and ( though i ever disliked and opposed it , yet ) that i sometimes did too much incourage such as were of their temper , by speaking too sharply against those things which i thought to be church corruptions , and was too loth to displease the contentious for fear of being uncapable to do them good , ( knowing the prophane to be much worse than they ) and meeting with too few religious persons , that were not too much pleased with such invectives . and as an argument of his repentance , he defends himself against bagshaw , who objected that he chose on easter day to communicate in a very populous church purposely that it might be known , saying , p. 76. if a man by many years forbearing all publick prayers and sacrament should tempt others to think that he is against them or counts them needless , how should he cure that scandal but by doing that openly pleading for it , which he is supposed to be against ? ministers being bound to teach the people by example as well as doctrine , p. 78. and what he practised himself he carefully perswaded the people , to avoid separation and hold communion in the parochial churches . for the question which he maintained against bagshaw was — it is lawful to hold communion with such christian churches as have worthy or tolerable pastors , notwithstanding the parochial order of them , and the ministers conformity and use of the common prayer-book : and with two limitations concludes , p. 89. that we ought to do so when some special reasons ( as from authority , scandal , &c. ) do require it . and whereas by these actions and writings , mr. baxter had so provoked the dissenting parties , that it was objected , as himself intimates in a second objection , in the preface of his christian directory , that his writings differing from the common judgment had already caused offence to the godly ; in the fourth answer , he sayes : if god bless me with opportunity and help , i will offend such men much more , by endeavouring further than ever i have done the quenching of that fire which they are still blowing up , and detecting the folly and mischief of those logomachies by which they militate against love and concord , and inflame and tear the church of god , and let them know that i am about it . these are resolutions becoming a minister of christ , an ambassador of the prince of peace , taken up after long and serious deliberation , well rooted and fixed in his judgment and conscience , by reason whereof he was enabled through the grace of god to withstand manifold temptations and violent oppositions to the contrary . nor can i think that such a man as mr. baxter can flee and desert so good a cause , and after vows to make enquiry , and render himself guilty of all those calumnies and reproaches which his enemies have endeavoured to fix upon him : nor can i think , that having brought our present controversies to so narrow a compass of ground , he will contribute to the building of a babel upon it . this were to make good those hard speeches of mr. bagshaw against him , who tells us , p. 152. that one worthy of credit told him that the learned and judicious mr. herle having read that cryed up book of his , said , it had been happy for the church of god if mr. baxter's friends had never sent him to school ; and that mr. cawdry had the same opinion of it . and that another person as knowing in the mystery of godliness as either of them told a friend of his , that notwithstanding the noise about him , mr. baxter would end in flesh and bloud . and in a word , this would set home his own fears upon his spirit , that he might be a fire brand in hell for being a fire-brand in the church . i shall therefore charitably believe , that though he seem to look another way , yet he is labouring to bring the people that adhere to him , to the harbour of ecclesiastical peace and unity ; that he doth still preach up not holiness only , but peace too , without which he knows no man shall see god ; nor can i think that he doth now practise in contempt of authority , what himself had condemned in others ; or that he intends to harden the people in such a separation , as he had so long , so passionately , so rationally declaimed against . i rather hope that he hath some dispensation from his lawful superiors , and that by a pia fraus having greater advantages of doing good put into his hands , he will by degrees improve them to the glory of god and the peace of this distracted church . if he drive any other design , i would desire him to consider , first , how he can answer his own arguments unto men ; and secondly , how to give an account to god for his contrary practices . but i have a very great confidence , that he who hath with great industry and faithfulness provided so many solid materials from the scriptures and right reason for the supporting and beautifying a temple of peace , having carved and guilded them over with serious protestations of his own pacifick intentions , and variety of rhetorick to perswade others , will not be a leader of that rabble , which shall first break down the carved works with axes and hammers , and at last ( though sore against his will ) raze the very foundations , and cry down with it , down with it even to the ground . of the church . mr. baxter in his reasons for the christian religion , p. 464. s. 2. the church of christ being his body is but one , and hath many parts , but should have no parties , but unity and concord without division . s. 3. therefore no christian must be of a party or sect as such , that is , as dividing it self from the rest , causing schism or contention in the body , or making a rent unnecessarily in any particular church which is a part . s. 8. nothing will warrant us to separate from a church as no church , but the want of something essential to a church . s. 11. it is essential to particular political churches , that they be constituted of true bishops or pastors and of flocks of baptized or professed christians , united for holy communion in the worshipping of god , and the promoting of the salvation of the several members . s. 12. it is essential to a true bishop or pastor of the church to be in office ( that is in authority and obligation ) appointed by christ in subordination to him in the three parts of his offices , prophetical , priestly and kingly . that is , to teach the people , to stand between them and god in worship , and to guide or govern them by the paternal exercise of the keys of his church . s. 15. if a church which in all other respects is purest and best , will impose any sin upon all that will have any local communion with it , though we must not separate from that church as no church , yet must we not commit that sin , but patiently suffer them to exclude us from their communion . of the doctrine of the church of england . as for the doctrine of the church of england , the bishops and their followers from the first reformation begun by king edward the sixth , were sound in doctrine , adhering to the augustane method expressed now in the articles and homilies ; they differed not in any considerable point from those whom they called puritans , but it was in the form of government , liturgy and ceremonies that the difference lay . the independents as well as the presbyterians offer to subscribe the xxxix articles as distinct from prelacy and ceremony . and when i was in the country , i knew not of one minister to ten that are now silenced , that was not in the main of the same principles with my self . mr. baxter's reasons for obedience in lawful things , page 483. of his five disputations . § . 1. lest men that are apt to run from one extream into another , should make an ill use of that which i have before written , i shall here annex some reasons to perswade men to just obedience , and preserve them from any sinful nonconformity to the commands of their governours , and the evil effects that are like to follow thereupon . § . 2. but first i will lay together some propositions for decision of the controversie ; how far we are bound to obey mens precepts about religion ? especially in case we doubt of the lawfulness of obeying them ? and so cannot obey them in faith ? § . 3. briefly : 1. we must obey both magistrates and pastors in all things lawful which belong to their offices to command . 2. it belongs not to their office to make god a new worship ; but to command the mode and circumstances of worship belongeth to their office : for guiding them wherein god hath given them general rules . 3. we must not take the lawful commands of our governours to be unlawful . 4. if we do through weakness or perversness take lawful things to be unlawful , that will not excuse us in our disobedience . our error is our sin , and one sin will not excuse another sin . even as on the other side , if we judge things unlawful to be lawful , that will not excuse us for our disobedience to god in obeying men . 5. as i have before shewed , many things that are miscommanded , must be obeyed . 6. as an erroneous judgment will not excuse us from obedience to our governours , so much less will a doubtfulness excuse us . 7. as such a doubting , erring judgment cannot obey in ( plenary ) faith , so much less can he disobey in faith . for it is a known command of god , that we obey them that have the rule over us : but they have no word of god against the act of obedience now in question . it is their own erring judgment that intangleth them in a necessity of sinning ( till it be changed . ) 7. in doubtful cases , it is our duty to use god's means for our information : and one means is to consult with our teachers , and hear their words with teachableness and meekness . 8. if upon advising with them we remain in doubt about the lawfulness of some circumstance of order , if it be such as may be dispensed with , they should dispense with us : if it may not be dispensed with without a greater injury to the church or cause of god , than our dispensation will countervail , then is it our duty to obey our teachers , notwithstanding such doubts : for it being their office to teach us , it must be our duty to believe them with a humane faith , in cases where we have no evidences to the contrary : and the duty of obeying them being certain , and the sinfulness of the thing commanded being uncertain & unknown , and only suspected , we must go on the surer side . 9. yet must we in great and doubtful cases , not take up with the suspected judgment of a single pastor , but apply our selves to the unanimous pastors of other churches ▪ 10. christians should not be over-busie in prying into the work of their governours , nor too forward to suspect their determinations : but when they know that it is their rulers work to guide them by determining of due circumstances of worship , they should without causless scruples readily obey , till they see just reason to stop them in their obedience ; they must not go out of their own places to search into the actions of another man's office , to trouble themselves without any cause . § . 4. and now i intreat all humble christians readily to obey both magistrates and pastors in all lawful things ; and to consider , to that end , of these reasons following . reas . 1. if you will not obey in lawful things , you deny authority , or overthrow government it self , which is a great ordinance of god , established in the fifth commandment with promise : and as that commandment respecting societies and common good , is greater than the following commands , as they respect the private good of our neighbours , or are but particular means to that publick good , whose foundation is laid in the fifth commandment ; so accordingly the sin against this fifth commandment must be greater than that against the rest . § . 5. reas . 2. in disobeying the lawful commands of our superiors , we disobey christ , who ruleth by them as his officers . even as the disobeying a justice of peace or judge is a disobeying of the soveraign power ; yea in some cases when their sentence is unjust . some of the ancient doctors thought that the fifth commandment was the last of the first table of the decalogue ; and that the honouring of governors is part of our honour to god , they being mentioned there as his officers , with whom he himself is honoured or dishonoured , obeyed or disobeyed : for it is god's authority that the magistrate , parent , and pastor is endued with , and empowred by to rule those that are put under them . § . 6. reas . 3. what confusion will be brought into the church if pastors be not obeyed in things lawful ? for instance : if the pastors appoint the congregation to assemble at one hour , and the people will scruple the time , and say , it is unlawful , and so will choose some of them one time , and some another , what disorder will here be ? and worse , if the pastors appoint a place of worship , and any of the people scruple obeying them , and will come to another place , what confusion will here be ? people are many , and the pastors are few : and therefore there may be some unity if the people be ruled by the pastors ; but there can be none , if the pastors must be ruled by the people , for the people will not agree among themselves : and therefore if we obey one part of them , we must disobey and displease the rest . and their ignorance makes them unfit to rule . § . 7. reas . 4. moreover , disobedience in matters of circumstance , will exclude and overthrow the substance of the worship it self . god commandeth us to pray : if one part of the church will not joyn with a stinted form of prayer , and the other part will not joyn without it , both parties cannot be pleased , and so one part must cast off prayer it self , or separate from the rest . god commandeth the reading , and preaching , and hearing of the scripture , and the singing of psalms : but he hath left it to man to make or choose the best translation of scripture , or version of the psalms . now if the pastor appoint one version and translation , and the church joyn in the use of it , if any members will scruple joyning in this translation or version , they must needs forbear the whole duty of hearing the scripture , and singing psalms in that congregation . if they pretend a scruple against the appointed time or place of worship , they will thereby cast off the worship it self . for if they avoid our time or place , they cannot meet with us , nor worship with us . § . 8. reas . 5. and when they are thus carried to separate from the congregation , upon such grounds as these , they will be no where fixt , but may be still subdividing , and separating from one another , till they are resolved into individuals , and have left no such thing as a church among them . for they can have no assurance or probability , that some of themselves will not dissent from the rest in one circumstance or other , as they did from their pastors and the church that they were of before . § . 9. reas . 6. by this means the wicked that are disobedient to their teachers , and reject the worship of god it self , will be hardened in their sin , and taught by professors to defend their ungodliness : for the very same course that you take will serve their turns . they need not deny any duty in the substance , but deny the circumstance , and so put off the substance of the duty . if a wicked man will not hear the word preached , he may say [ i am not against preaching ; but i am unsatisfied of the lawfulness of your time or place , i am in judgment against coming to your steeple-house , or against the lords day . ] and so he shall never hear , though he say he is for hearing . if a wicked man will not be personally instructed , or admonished , or be accountable to the church or pastors for any scandals of his life , nor submit to any discipline , he may say [ i am for discipline , i know it is my duty to be instructed : but i am not satisfied that i am bound to come to you when you send for me , or to appear at such a place as you appoint : the word of god nameth no time or place , and you shall not deprive me of my liberty . ] if a wicked man would not hear or read the scripture , or sing psalms , he may say that he is for the duty , but he is only against this and that translation and version : and so while every version is excepted against , the duty is as much evaded as if it were denied it self . by this device it is that the rebellion of unruly people is defended : they run to the circumstances of the duty , and ask , [ where are they bound to come to a minister ? or to be examined by him in order to a baptism or lords supper ? or to speak their consent to be church-members , or to subscribe to a profession , or to read an english bible , or to hear in a steeple-house , with many such like . ] thus also it is that they put off family-prayer , and ask , [ where are they bound to pray in their family morning and evening ? ] and so keep no constancy in family-prayer at all , under pretence of denying only the circumstances . § . 10. reas . 7. by this disobedience in things lawful , the members of the church will be involved in contentions , and so ingaged in bitter uncharitableness , and censures , and persecutions , and reproaches of one another : which scandalous courses will nourish vice , dishonour god , rejoyce the enemies , grieve the godly that are peaceable and judicious , and wound the consciences of the contenders . we see the beginning of such fires are small , but whither they tend , and what will be the end of them , we see not . § . 11. reas . 8. by these means also magistrates will be provoked to take men of tender consciences for factious , unruly , and unreasonable men , and to turn their enemies , and use violence against them , to the great injury of the church : when they see them so self-conceited , and refusing obedience in lawful circumstances . § . 12. reas . 9. by this means also the conversion and establishment of souls will be much hindred , and people possessed with prejudice against the church and ordinances , when they take us to be but humorous people , and see us in such contentions among our selves . to my knowledge , our late difference about some such lesser things , hath turned off , or hindered abundance of people from liking the holy doctrine and life which we profess . § . 13. reas . 10. it will seem to the wisest , to savour of no small measure of pride , when people on the account of lawful circumstances , dare set themselves against their governors and teachers , and quarrel with the ordinances of god , and with the churches : humble men would sooner suspect themselves , and quarrel with their own distempers , and submit to those that are wiser than themselves , and that are set over them for their guidance by the lord. there may more dangerous pride be manifested in these matters , than in apparel , and such lower trifles . § . 14. reas . 11. consider also what yielding in things lawful the scripture recommendeth to us ? how far yielded paul when he circumcised timothy ? act 16. 3. and when he [ took the men , and purified himself with them in the temple , to signifie the accomplishment of the days of purification , until that an offering should be offered for every one of them ] and this for almost seven dayes , acts 21. 26 , 27. with the foregoing verses . § . 15. so 1 cor. 9. 19 , 20. [ for though i be free from all men , yet have i made my self servant unto all , that i might gain the more : and unto the jews i became as a jew , that i might gain the jews ; to them that are under the law , as under the law , that i might gain them that are under the law : to them that are without law , as without law ( being not without law to god , but under the law to christ ) that i might gain them that are without law. to the weak i became as weak , that i might gain the weak : i am made all things to all men , that i might , by all means save some , and this i do for the gospels sake , &c. ] study this example . § . 16. read also rom. 14. and 15. chapters , how much condescension the apostle requireth even among equals , about meats and dayes . and 1 cor. 8. 13. the apostle would tie up himself from eating any flesh while the world standeth , rather than make a weak brother to offend . many other passages of scripture require a condescension in things of this indifferent nature , and shew that the kingdom of god doth not consist in them . § . 17. and matthew 12. 1 , 2 , to 9. you find that hunger justified the disciples of christ for plucking and rubbing the ears of corn on the sabbath dayes . and hunger justified david and those that were with him , for entring into the house of god , and eating the shew-bread , which was not lawful for him to eat , nor for them which were with him , but only for the priests : and the priests in the temple were blameless for prophaning the sabbath day . ] now if things before accidentally evil , may by this much necessity become lawful and a duty , then may the commands of magistrates or pastors , and the unity of the church , and the avoiding of contention , and offence , and other evils , be also sufficient to warrant us in obeying , even in inconvenient circumstantials of the worship of god , that otherwise could not be justified . § . 18. reas . 12. lastly consider , how much god hath expressed himself in his word to be pleased in the obedience of believers . not only in their obedience to christ immediately , but also to him in his officers , 1 sam. 15. 22. [ behold to obey is better than sacrifice , &c. ] col. 3. 20 , 22. [ children obey your parents in all things ( that is , all lawful things ) for this is well-pleasing to the lord ] [ servants obey in all things your masters according to the flesh , &c. ] and obedience to pastors is as much commanded , 1. thes . 5. 12 , 13. [ we beseech you brethren to know them which labour among you , and are over you in the lord , and admonish you , and esteem them very highly , &c. ] heb. 13. 17. [ obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls as they that must give account , &c. ] so verse 7. & 24. 1 tim. 5. 17 , &c. § . 19. as the general commission to a parent , or master , or magistrate to govern their inferior relations , doth authorize them to many particular acts belonging to their office , that were never named in their commission : so your general command to obey them , obligeth you to obey them in the said particulars . and so it is also betwixt the pastors and the flock , in matters belonging to the office of a pastor . § . 20. if a child shall ask a parent , [ where doth gods word allow you to command me to learn this catechism , or read this divines writings , or repeat this sermon , or write it ? &c. ] doth not the question deserve to be answered with the rod ? the general commission for parents to govern their children is sufficient . so if a schoolmaster command his scholars to come to such a place to school , and to take their places in such an order , and to learn such books , and do such exercises , &c. the general commission that he hath to teach and govern them , will allow him to do all this . ( though it will not allow him to set his scholars to any artifice or manual operation alien to his profession . ) so if a minister determine of the variable circumstances of worship , as what place the people shall come to , and at what time , to be catechized , examined , instructed , &c. what translation or version of psalms to use , what utensils to make use of about gods service , or such like , he is warranted for this by his general commission . and if he miss it in the manner , by choosing inconvenient circumstances , or by unnecessary determination of points that should rather be left undetermined to liberty , though this be his own sin , it will not excuse the people from obedience ; unless the error of his directions be so great as would frustrate the ordinance it self , or do more harm than our disobedience would do ; which in circumstantials is rarely found . by long experience i am assured , that practical religion , will afford both to church , state , and conscience more certain , and more solid peace , than contending disputers , with all their pretences of orthodoxness , and zeal against errors , for the truth , will ever bring , or did ever attain to . wherefore let us consider in the next place , the mischief of separation . the mischief of separation lies not in the bare error of judgment , but in the unchristian and church-dissolving division and alienation , which thence followeth ; contrary to that humility and love , which is the visible character of christians , and to that oneness , which is still in scripture ascribed to the visible church . alas , that pride and ignorance should have such power among believers , that men cannot be of several judgments in lesser points , but they must needs be of several churches . god will make us value peace and union a little more , before we shall taste of the perfect everlasting peace and union ; yea before we shall see the blessing of union in the church . wounding is a dividing , healing is a re-uniting ; a building is of many stones or pieces orderly conjoyned ; a church is an aggregation of individuals , an association of believers : what then is it to demolish , but to separate and disjoyn ? and what is it to dissolve churches , but to break their association , to reduce them to individuals , to cut them into shreds ? as for the differences in way of government , between the moderate presbyterians , independants , episcopal , and erastian , i make no doubt , but if mens spirits stood not at a greater distance than their principles , they would quickly be united . but of all the four sorts there are some that run so high in their principles , that they run out of the hearing of peace or truth . — for anabaptism and antinomianism god spake effectually against them , by those wondrous monsters in new-england ; but wonders are over-lookt , where the heart is hardned , and god intends to get his justice a name . the fearful dolusions , that god hath formerly given them over to , and the horrid confusion which they have introduced where they have sprung , hath spoken fully against both these later sects . the weeping eyes , the bleeding sides , the lacerated members of these churches , the reproach of the gospel , the disappointed reformation , the hideous doctrines , and unheard of wickedness that hath followed them , the contemned ordinances , the reproached , slandered , and ejected ministers , the weak that are scandalized , the professors apostatized , the wicked hardned , and the open enemies of the gospel , that now insult ; all these do describe them more plainly to england , than words can do , and cry loud in the ears of god , and man. what will be the answer , time will shew : but from rev. 2. 14 , 15 , 16 , &c. we may probably conjecture . he that is not a son of peace , is not a son of god. all other sins destroy the church consequentially , but division and separation demolish it directly . building the church is but an orderly joyning of the materials , and what then is disjoyning but pulling down ? many doctrial differences must be tolerated in a church , and why , but for unity and peace ? therefore disunion and separation is utterly intolerable . believe not those to be the churches friends , that would cure and reform her by cutting her throat . those that say , no truth must be concealed for peace , have usually as little of the one as the other . study gal. 2. 22. rom. 14. 1. acts 21. 24 , 26. 1 tim. 1. 4. & 6. 4. titus 3. 8 , 9. i hope , sad experience speaks this lesson to your very hearts , if i should say nothing . do not your hearts bleed to look upon the state of england , and to think how few towns , or cities there be ( where is any forwardness in religion ) that are not cut into shreds and crumbled as to dust , by separations and divisions ? to think what a wound we have hereby given to the very christian name , how we have hardned the ignorant , confirmed the papists , and are our selves become the scorn of our enemies , and the grief of our friends , and how many of our dearest best esteemed friends , have fallen to notorious pride or impiety , yea , some , to be worse than open infidels ? these are pillars of salt , see that you remember them . though of your own selves , men should arise , speaking perverse things , to draw disciples after them , acts 20. 30. yea though an angel from heaven should draw you to divisions , see that you follow him not . if there be erroneous practices in the church , keep your selves innocent , with moderation , and peace . it must be no small error , that must force a separation . justin martyr professed , that if a jew should keep the ceremonial law , so he did not perswade the gentiles to it , as necessary , yet if he acknowledged christ , he judgeth that he might be saved , and he would imbrace him and have communion with him . paul would have him received , that is weak in the faith , and not un-church whole parishes of those that we know not , nor were ever brought to a just trial . i ever loved a godly peaceable conformist , better than a turbulent nonconformist . i differ from many , in several things of considerable moment , yet if i should zealously press my judgment on others , so as to disturb the peace of the church , and separate from my brethren that are contrary minded , i should fear , lest i should prove a fire-brand in hell , for being a fire-brand in the church . and for all the interest i have in your judgments and affections , i here charge you , that if god should give me up , to any factious , church-rending course , ( against which i daily pray ) that you forsake me , and follow me not a step . and for peace with one another , follow it with all your might , if it be possible , as much as in you lyeth , live peaceably with all men , rom. 12. 18. ( mark this . ) when you feel any sparks of discontent in your breasts , take them as kindled by the devil , from hell , and take heed you cherish them not . if the flames begin to break forth , in censoriousness , reproaches , and hard speeches of others , be as speedy and busie in quenching it , as if it were fire in the thatch of your houses . for why should your houses be dearer to you , than the church , which is the house of god ? or your souls , which are the temples of the holy ghost ? hath god spoke more against any sin than unpeaceableness ? if ye forgive not men their trespasses , neither will your heavenly father forgive you : which lodovicus crocius says , is the measure , and essential property of the least degree of true faith ; if you love not one another , you are not disciples of christ . publick wars and private quarrels usually pretend the reformation of the church , the vindicating of the truth , and the welfare of souls ; but they as usually prove in the issue , the greatest means to the overthrow of all . it is as natural for both wars and private contentions to produce errors , schisms , contempt of magistracy , ministry , and ordinances , as it is for a dead carrion to breed worms and vermine . believe it from one , that hath too many years experience of it ; it is as hard a thing to maintain even in your people , a sound understanding , a tender conscience , a lively , gracious , heavenly frame of spirit , and an upright life in a way of war and contention , as to keep your candle lighted in the greatest storms , or under the waters . the like i may say of perverse and fierce disputings about the circumstantials of discipline , or other questions , that are far from the foundation ; they oftner lose the truth than find it . wo to those ministers , that make unnecessary divisions , and parties among the people , that so they may get themselves a name , and be cryed up by many followers . the way to prosper your labours is to quench all flames of contention , to your power . study the peace and unity of your congregations , keep out all occasions of divisions , especially the doctrine of separation , and popular church-government , the apparent seminary of faction , and perpetual contentions . if once the people be taught , that it belongs to them to govern themselves , and those the scripture calleth their guides and rulers , we shall have mad work . they that would pluck up the hedge of government , as if the vineyard could not be fruitful , except it lay waste , to the pleasure of all the beasts of the forest , are like the pond , that grudged at the banks and damm , and thought it injurious to be restrained of its liberty , and therefore combined with the winds , to raise a tempest , and so assault and beat down the banks in their rage ; and now where is that peaceable association of waters ? we feel now , how those are mistaken that thought the way for the churches unity , was to dig up the banks and let all loose , that every man in religion might do what he list . they are , usually , men least acquainted with a heavenly life , who are the violent disputers about the circumstantials of religion . as the body doth languish in consuming fevers , when the native heat abates within , and unnatural heat inflaming the external parts succeeds : so when the zeal of a christian doth leave the internals of religion , and fly to ceremonials , externals , or inferior things , the soul must needs consume and languish . of conformity . for conformity , though to ministers it be another thing , by reason of the new impositions , than it was to our predecessors ; yet to the people , conformity is the same , if not easier , ( especially to them that i now speak to : ) for it is the liturgy , ceremonies , and ministry , that most alienate them . and the liturgy is a little amended , as to them , by the change of the translation , and some little words , and by some longer prayers ; and the ceremonies are the same ; and thirty years ago , there were many bare reading , not preaching ministers , for one that is now . therefore our case of separation being the same as of old , i take it to be fully confuted , by the ancient non-conformists : and i have so great a veneration for the worthy names , much more an estimation of the reasonings , of mr. cartwright , egerton , hildersham , dod , amesius , parker , baines , brightman , ball , bradshaw , paget , langley , nicols , herring , &c. that i shall not think , they knew not why they chose this subject , and wrote more against separation , than the conformists did . i am very glad that the pious lectures of mr. hildersham , mr. r. rogers , and such old non-conformists , are in so good esteem among good people , where they will read them , urging the people , not only against separation , but to come to the very beginning of the publick worship , and preferring it before their private duties . when i think what holy learned men the old conformists were , my heart riseth against the thoughts of separating from them . if i had come to their churches , when they used the common prayer , and administred the sacrament , could i have departed and said , it is not lawful for any christian here to communicate with you ? what! to such men , as mr. bolton , whateley , fenner , dent , crook , dike , stock , smith , dr. preston , sibbs , stoughton , taylor , and abundance other such ? yea such as bishop jewel , grindal , hall , potter , davenant , carleton , &c. dr. field , smith , jo. white , willet , &c. yea and the martyrs too ? as cranmer , ridley , hooper himself , farrar , bradford , fillpot , sanders , &c. could i separate from all these on the reasons now in question ? yea calvin himself and the churches of his way were all separated from by the separatists of their times . and though ministerial conformity is now much altered , ( as to ingagements ) many ( of the assembly of divines ) that are yet living , do conform again ; nor would i shun communion with the reverend members of that assembly , twiss , gataker , whitaker , and the rest , if again they used the liturgy among us . and if the old conformists , such as bolton , &c. were alive , and used now the same liturgy and ceremonies as they did then , ( which was worse than now ) i could not think their communion in prayer and sacraments , unlawful , nor censure that man as injurious to the church , who should write to perswade others , not to separate from them . read over some of the old non-conformists books against separation , as mr. jacobs , the independent , against johnson , and mr. bradshaw , and mr. gataker's defence against cann , mr. gifford , darrell , paget , &c. and fullest of all , ( at the beginning of our troubles ) mr. john ball in three books : in these you will find the same objections answered , or more , and greater . and i profess my judgment , that our ordinary boasters , that think they know more in this controversie than the old non-conformists did , as far as i am able to discern , are as far below them almost as they are below either chamier , sadeel , whitaker , or such other in dealing with a papist . objections answered . but what if there be gross and scandalous sinners are members of the church ? answ . if you be wanting in your duty to reform it , it is your sin ; but if bare presence made their sin to be ours , it would also make all the sins of the assembly ours . but what if they are sins committed in the open assembly , even by the minister himself in his praying , preaching , and other administrations ? answ . 1. a ministers personal faults may damn himself , and must be matter of lamentation to the church , who ought to do their best to reform them , or get better , by any lawful means ; but in case they cannot , his sin is none of theirs , nor doth it make his administration null , or ineffectual , nor will it allow you to separate from the worship which he administreth . — you may not separate from him , unless you can prove him , or his ministry , utterly intolerable , by such faults as these : 1. an utter insufficiency in knowledge , or utterance , for the necessary parts of the ministerial work : as if he be not able to teach the necessary points of christian religion , nor to administer the sacraments , and other parts of publick worship . 2. if he set himself to oppose the ends of his ministry , and preach down godliness , or any part of it , that is necessary to salvation : or be a preacher of heresie , preaching up any damning error , or preaching down any necessary , saving truth . 3. if he so deprave the publick worship , as to destroy the substance of it , as in putting up blasphemy for prayer or praise , or commit idolatry , or set up new sacraments , or impose any actual sin on the people . but there are other ministerial faults , which warrant not our separation ; as 1. some tolerable errors of judgment , or envy , and pettish opposition to others , phil. 1. 15. 2. it is not unlawful to join with a minister , that hath many defects in his ministration , or manner of worship ; as if he preach with some ignorance , disorder , unfit expressions , or gestures , and the like in prayer and sacraments . 3. it is not unlawful to join with a minister , that hath some material error or untruth in preaching or praying , so be it we be not called to approve it , and so it be not pernicious and destructive to the ends of his ministry . if we run away from all that vent any untruth or mistake in publick or private worship , we shall scarce know , what church or person we may hold communion with . for 1. a small sin may no more be done or owned , than a greater . 2. and then another man's weakness , may disoblige me , and discharge me from my duty . of subscription with assent and consent , particularly concerning infants baptized . q. 152. is it lawful to subscribe or profess full assent and consent to any religious books , beside the bible , seeing all are fallible ? 3. answ . it is lawful to profess or subscribe our assent and consent to any humane writing , which we judge to be true and good , according to the measure of its truth and goodness . as if church-confessions , that are sound , be offered us , for our consent , we may say , or subscribe , i hold all the doctrine in this book to be true and good . q. 35. is it certain by the word of god , that all infants baptized , and dying before actual sin , are undoubtedly saved ? answ . i think that all the children of true christians do by baptism receive a publick investiture , by god's appointment , into a state of remission , adoption , and right to salvation , at present ; sent ; though i dare not say , i am undoubtedly certain of it . — but i say , as the synod of dort , art. 1. that believing parents have no cause to doubt of the salvation of their children , that dye in infancy , before they commit actual sin ; that is , not to trouble themselves with fears about it . for if such infants were admitted to outward priviledges only , then ( which is my 2d . reason ) we have no promise , or certainty or ground of faith for the pardon and salvation of any individual infants in the world : and if there be no promise , there is no faith of it , nor no baptism to seal it , and so we make antipaedobaptism unavoidable . whereas some mis-interpret the words of the old rubrick of confirmation in the english liturgy , as if it spake of all that are baptized , whether they have right or not , the words themselves may serve to rectifie that mistake : [ and that no man shall think any detriment shall come to children by deferring of their confirmation , he shall know for truth , that it is certain by gods word , that children being baptized have all things necessary for their salvation , and be undoubtedly saved . ] where it is plain , they mean , they have all things necessary ex parte ecclesiae , or all gods applying ordinances necessary , though they should die unconfirmed , supposing , they have all things necessary to just baptism on their own part : which is but what the ancients were wont to say of the baptized adult ; but they never meant , that the infidel and impenitent were in a state of life , because he was baptized , but that all that truly consent to the covenant , and signifie this by being baptized are saved . so the church of england saith , that they receive no detriment by delaying confirmation ; but it never said , that they received no detriment by their parents or responses infidelity or hypocrisie , or by their want of true right , coram deo , to be baptized . q. 39. what is the true meaning of sponsors or godfathers , and is it lawful to make use of them ? answ . my opinion is , that they did both witness the probability of the parents fidelity , and also promised , that if they should either apostatize , or dye , they would see , that the children were piously educated . if you take them , but as the ancient churches did , for such as do attest the parents fidelity , ( in their perswasion ) and do promise , first , to mind you of your duty , and next to take care of their pious education , if you die ; i know no reason you have to scruple this much ; yea more , it is in your power to agree with the godfathers , that they shall represent your own persons , and speak and promise what they do , as your deputies , only in your names : and what have you against this ? object . when the churchmen mean another thing , this is but to juggle with the world . answ . how can you prove , that the authority , that made , or imposed the liturgy , meant any other thing ? 2. if the imposers had meant ill , in a thing that may be done well , you may discharge your conscience , by doing it well , and making a sufficient profession of your better sense . q. 42. how is the holy ghost given to infants in baptism ? whether all the children of true christians have inward sanctifying grace , &c. ans . my judgment agreeth more in this with davenant's , than any others ; saving that he doth not appropriate the benefits of baptism to the children of true believers , so much as i do . and though , by a letter impleading davenant's cause , i was the occasion of printing good mr. gataker's answer to him ; yet i am still most inclined to his judgment , not , that all the baptized , but that all the baptized seed of true christians are pardoned , justifyed , adopted , and have a title to the spirit , and salvation . and we must choose great inconveniences , if this opinion be forsaken , viz. that all infants must be taken to be out of covenant with god , and to have no promise of salvation ; whereas , surely , the law of grace , as well as the covenant of works included all the seed in their capacity . of the responses . q. 83. may the people bear a vocal part in worship , and do any more than say amen ? answ . the people bear an equal part in singing the psalms , which are prayer , and praise , and instruction : if they may do so in the psalms in metre , there can be no reason given , but they may lawfully do so in psalms in prose ; for saying them , and singing them , are but modes of utterance , and the ancient singing was liker our saying , than our tunes . the primitive christians were so full of zeal , and love to christ , that they would have taken it for an injury , and a quenching of the spirit , to have been wholly restrained from bearing their part in the praises of the church . the use of the tongue keepeth awake the mind , and stirreth up god's graces , in his servants . it was the decay of zeal in the people , that first shut out the responses : while they kept up the ancient zeal , they were inclined to take their part vocally in the worship . and this was seconded by the pride and usurpation of the priests thereupon ; who thought the people of god too prophane to speak in the assemblies , and meddle so much with holy things . yet the very remembrance of former zeal caused most churches to retain many of the words of their predecessors , even when they lost the life and spirit which should animate them ; and so the same words came into the liturgies , and were used by too many , customarily , and in formality , which their ancestors had used in the fervour of their souls . and if it were not , that a dead-hearted , formal people , by speaking the responses carelesly and hypocritically , do bring them into disgrace with many , that see the necessity of seriousness , i think , few good people would be against them now . — it is here the duty of every christian , to labour to restore the life and spirit to the words , that they may again be used in a serious and holy manner , as heretofore . exod. 19. 8. in as solemn an assembly as any of ours , when god gave moses a form of words to preach to the people , all the people answered together , and said , all that the lord hath spoken , we will do . so exod. 24. 3. and deuter. 5. 27. which god approved of , v. 28 , 29. see levit. 9. 24. 2 kings 23. 2 , 3. 1 chron. 1. 35 , 36. it is a command , ps . 67. 3 , 5. let all the people praise thee , o god , &c. and he that will limit this to single persons , or say that it must not be , vocally , in the church , or , it must be in metre only , and never in prose , must prove it , lest he be proved one , that addeth to gods word . q. 84. is it not a sin for our clerks , to make themselves the mouth of the people ? answ . the clerks are not appointed to be the mouth of the people , but each clerk is one of the people , commanded to do that which all should do , lest it should be wholly left undone . if all the congregation will speak all that the clerk doth , it will answer the primary desire of the church governors who bid the people do it . of bowing at the name jesus — and of priests , altars , &c. q. 86. is it lawful to bow at the name of jesus ? answ . that we may lawfully express our reverence , when the names ( god , jehovah , jesus , christ , &c. ) are uttered , i have met with few christians who deny ; nor know i any reason to deny it . if i live and joyn in a church where it is commanded , and peremptorily urged , to bow at the name of jesus , and where my not doing it , would be divisive , scandalous , or offensive ; i will bow at the name of god , jehovah , jesus , christ , lord , &c. my judgment of standing at the gospel , and kneeling at the decalogue , ( when it is commanded ) is the same . q. 122. may the name , priests , sacrifice and altars , be lawfully used ? answ . the new testament useth all the greek names , which we translate priests , sacrifice and altars ; and our translation is not intolerable , if priest come from presbyter ( i need not prove that ) if it do not , yet all ministers are subordinate to christ in his priestly office . and the word sacrifice is used of us , and our offered worship , 1 pet. 2. 5. hebr. 13. 15 , 16. phil. 4. 18. eph. 5. 2. ro. 12. 1. and hebr. 13. 10. saith we have an altar , which word is frequently used in the revelations , in relation to gospel-times . we must not therefore be quarrelsome against the bare names , unless they be abused to some ill use . the ancient fathers and churches did ever use all these words so familiarly , without any question or scruple raised by the orthodox , or hereticks about them , that we should be wary , how we condemn these words , lest we give advantage to the papists to tell their followers , that all antiquity is on their side . the lords supper is by protestants truly called a commemorative sacrifice . of the communion table , &c. qu. 123. may the communion tables be turned altarwise ? and railed in ? and is it lawful to come up to the rails to communicate ? answ . 1. god hath not given a particular command , or prohibition about these circumstances , but only general rules for edification , unity , decency and order . 2. they that do it out of a design to draw men to popery , or to incourage men in it , do sin . 3. so do they , that rail in the table , to signifie , that lay-christians must not come to it , but be kept at a distance . 4. but where there are no such ends , but only to imitate the ancients , that did thus , and to shew reverence to the table on the account of the sacrament , by keeping away dogs , keeping boys from sitting on it ; and the professed doctrine of the church condemneth transubstantiation , the real corporal-presence , &c. in this case christians should take these , for such as they are , indifferent things , and not censure or condemn each other for them . 5. and to communicate , is not only lawful in this case , where we cannot prove , that the minister sinneth , but even , when we suspect an ill design in him , which we cannot prove , yea , or when we can prove that his personal interpretation of the place , name , scituation ; and rail , is unsound ; for we assemble there to communicate in , and according to the professed doctrine of christianity , and the churches , and our own open profession , and not after every private opinion , and error of the minister . of the creed . qu. 139. what is the use and authority of the creed ? is it of the apostles framing or not ? answ . it s use is , to be a plain explication of the faith professed in the baptismal covenant ; and for the satisfaction of the church , that men indeed understand what they did in baptism , and professed to believe . 2. it is the word of god , as to the matter of it , whatever it be as to the order , or composition of the words . 3. it is not to be doubted , but the apostles did use a creed commonly in their days , which was the same with that , now called the apostles , and the nicene , in the main . 4. and it is easily probable , that christ composed a creed , when he made his covenant , and instituted baptism , matth. 28. 19. 5. that the apostles did cause the baptizable ; to understand the three articles of christs own creed and covenant , and used many explicatory words to make them understand it . 6. it is more than probable , that the matter opened by them , was still the same when the words were not the same . 7. and it is also more than probable , that they did not needlesly vary the words , lest it should teach men to vary the matter . and lastly , no doubt but this practice of the apostles was imitated by the churches , and that thus the essentials of religion were by the tradition of the creed , and baptism , delivered by themselves , as far as christianity went , long before any book of the new testament was written . and the following churches , using the same creed ; might so far well call it the apostles creed . of the apocrypha . qu. 150. is it lawful to read the apocrypha or homilies ? answ . it is lawful , so be it they be sound doctrine , and fitted to the peoples edification . 2. so be it they be not read scandalously , without sufficient differencing them from god's book . 3. so they be not read to exclude , or hinder the reading of the scriptures , or other necessary church duty . 4. so they be not read to keep up an ignorant , lazy ministry , that can , or will do no better . 5. and especially , if authority command it , and the churches agreement require it . of the oath of canonical obedience . qu. 153. may we lawfully swear obedience , in all things lawful and honest , either to usurpers , or to our lawful pastors ? answ . if the king shall command us , it is lawful . so the old nonconformists , who thought the english prelacy an unlawful office , yet maintained that it is lawful to take the oath of canonical obedience , because they thought it was imposed by the king , and laws , and that we swear to them , not as officers claiming a divine right in the spiritual government , but as ordinaries or officers , made by the king , according to the oath of supremacy . of the holiness of churches . qu. 170. are temples , fonts , utensils , church-lands , much more ministers holy ? and what reverence is due to them , as holy ? answ . temples , utensils , lands , &c. devoted , and lawfully separated by man , for holy uses , are holy , as justly related to god by that lawful separation . ministers are more holy than temples , lands , or utensils , as being nearlier related to holy things ; and things separated by god , are more holy than those justly separated by man. and so of days , every thing should be reverenced according to the measure of its holiness : and this expressed by such signs , gestures , actions , as are fittest to honour god , to whom they are related . and so to be uncovered in church , and use reverent carriage and gestures there , doth tend to preserve due reverence to god , and to his worship , 1 cor. 16. 20. of the power of the magistrate in circumstantials . those modes or circumstances of worship , which are necessary in genere , but left undetermined by god , in specie , are left by god to humane , prudential determination , ( else an impossibility should be necessary . ) it is left to humane determination what place the publick assemblies shall be held in . and to determine of the time , except where god hath determined already , and what utensils to imploy about the publick worship . some decent habit is necessary ; either the magistrate , or the minister , or associated pastors must determine what . i think , neither magistrate , nor synod , should do more than hinder indecency ; if they do , and tye all to one habit ( and suppose it were an indecent habit ) yet this is but an imprudent use of power , it is a thing within the magistrates reach , he doth not an aliene work , but his own work amiss , and therefore the thing in it self being lawful , i would obey him , and use that garment , if i could not be dispensed with . yea though , secondarily , the whiteness be to signifie purity , and so it be made a teaching sign , yet would i obey . and i see no reason to scruple the lawfulness of the ring in marriage ; for , though the papists make a sacrament of marriage , yet we have no reason to take it for any ordinance of divine worship , more than the solemnizing a contract between a prince and people . all things are sanctified and pure to the pure . and , for organs or other instruments of musick in god's worship , they being a help , partly natural , and partly artificial to the exhilarating the spirits , for the praise of god , i know no argument to prove them simply unlawful , but what would prove a cup of wine unlawful , or the tune and metre and melody of singing unlawful . of holy-days . nor do i scruple to keep a day in remembrance of any eminent servant of christ , or martyr , to praise god for their doctrine or example , and honor their memorial . i am resolved , if i live where such holy-days , ( christ's nativity , circumcision , fasting , transfiguration , ascension , and such like ) are observed , to censure no man for observing them . but , if i lived under a government , that peremptorily commanded it , i would observe the outward rest of such a holy-day , and i would preach on it , and join with the assemblies in god's worship , yea i would thus observe the day , rather than offend a weak brother , or hinder any man's salvation ; much more rather than i would make any division in the church . of the cross in baptism . i dare not peremptorily say , that the cross in baptism is unlawful ; nor will i condemn ancients or moderns that use it , nor will i make any disturbance in the church about it , more than my own forbearance will make . i presume not to censure them that judge it lawful , but only give the reasons that make me doubt , and rather think it to be unlawful , though still with a suspicion of my own understanding . of ceremonies . certain things commonly called ceremonies , may lawfully be used in the church , upon humane imposition ; and when it is not against the law of god , no person should disobey the commands of their lawful governors in such things . it may be very sinful to command some ceremonies , which may lawfully , yea must in duty be used , by the subject , when they are commanded . mr. baxter's judgment concerning confirmation agreeable to the practice of the church of england , may be seen in a particular treatise on that subject . of conventicles . q. 172. are all religious and private meetings forbidden by rulers , unlawful coventicles ? answ . 1. it is more to the honor of the church , and of religion , and of god , and more to our safety and edification , to have god's worship performed solemnly , publickly , and in great assemblies , than in a corner , secretly and with few . 2. it is a great mercy , where rulers allow the church such publick worship . 3. caeteris paribus , all christians should prefer such publick worship before private , and no private meetings should be kept up , which are opposite , or prejudicial to such publick meetings . and therefore , if such meetings , ( or any that are unnecessary , to the ends of the ministry , the service of god , and good of souls ) be forbidden by lawful rulers , they must be forborn . and it must be remembred , that rulers , that are infidels , papists , hereticks , or persecutors , that restrain church meetings , to the injury of mens souls , must be distinguished from pious princes , that only restrain hereticks , and real schismaticks , for the churches good . 2. and that times of heresie and schism may make private meetings more dangerous , than quiet times . and so even the scottish church forbad private meetings , in the separatists days of late . and when they do more hurt than good , and are justly forbidden , no doubt , in that case , it is a duty to obey , and to forbear them . it is a dangerous thing , to be insnared in a sect , it will , before you are aware , possess you with a seaverish , sinful zeal for the opinions , and interest of that sect ; it will make you bold , in bitter invectives and censures , against those that differ from you ; it will corrupt your church-communion , and fill your very prayers with partiality , and humane passions ; it will secretly bring malice , under the name of zeal , into your minds and words . in a word , it is a secret , but deadly enemy to christian love and peace . let them that are wiser , and more orthodox , and godly than others , shew ( as the holy ghost directeth them , james 3. 13 , 14 , &c. ) out of a good conversation their works with meekness of wisdom : but if ye have bitter envying , ( or zeal ) and strife in your hearts , glory not , and lye not against the truth . this wisdom descendeth not from above , but is earthly , sensual , devilish . of communion in the lords supper . qu. 2. may we communicate with unworthy persons ? answ . it is your duty to communicate with that church which hath a true pastor , and where the denominating part of the members are capable of church-communion , though there may some infidels , or heathen , or uncapable persons violently intrude , or scandalous persons are admitted , through the neglect of discipline , in case you have not your choice to hold personal communion with a better church , and in case also you be not guilty of the corruption , but by seasonable and modest professing your dissent , do clear your self of the guilt of such intrusion and corruption . qu. 3. but what if i cannot communicate , unless i conform to an imposed gesture , as kneeling ? answ . i never yet heard any thing to prove kneeling unlawful ; there is no word of god , for , or against , any gesture . christ's example cannot be proved to oblige us in this , and his gesture was not such a sitting as ours . the nature of the ordinance is mixt . and if it be lawful to take a pardon from the king upon our knees , i know not what can make it unlawful to take a sealed pardon from christ , by his ambassador , upon our knees . as for this ceremony of kneeling at the sacrament especially , since the rubrick is inserted , which disclaimeth , both all bread-worship , and the bodily real-presence , my judgment was ever for it . god having made some gesture necessary , and confined us to none , but left it to humane determination , i shall submit to magistrates , in their proper work . i am not sure , that christ intended the example of himself in this as obligatory ; but i am sure , he hath commanded me obedience , and peace . mr. perkins was for kneeling , and mr. baines in his letters writes for it , and answers objections against it . qu. 4. but what if i cannot communicate , but according to the administration of the common-prayer book ? answ . 1. that it is not unlawful to receive according to the administration of the common-prayer book , because it is a form , needs no proof to any , that is judicious . 2. nor yet , for any evil in this particular form , for in this part the common-prayer is generally approved . 3. nor yet , because it is imposed ; for a command maketh not that unlawful to us , which is lawful before , but it maketh many things lawful , and duties , that else would have been unlawful accidentally . 4. and the intentions of the commanders we have little to do with . and for the consequents , they must be weighed on both sides , and the consequents of our refusal will not be found light . in general , i must here tell the people of god , in the bitter sorrow of my soul , that at last it is time for them to discern that temptation , that hath in all ages of the church almost , made this sacrament of our union , to be the grand occasion or instrument of our divisions . and that , true humility , and acquaintance with our selves , and love to christ , and one another , would shew some men that it was but their pride and prejudice , and ignorance , that made them think so heinously of other mens manner of worship . and that , on all sides , among true christians , the manner of their worship is not so odious , as prejudice , and faction , and partiality representeth it . and that god accepteth that , which they reject . and they should see , how the devil hath undone the common people , by this means , by teaching them every one to expect salvation for being of that party which he taketh to be the right church , and for worshipping in that manner which he , and his party , thinketh best . and so wonderful a thing is prejudice , that every party , by this , is brought to think that ridiculous and vile , which the other party accounteth best . but to magnifie any one church or party , so as to deny due love and communion to the rest , is schism . to limit all the church to your party , and deny all , or any of the rest , to be christians , and parts of the universal church , is schism , by a dangerous breach of charity . it is schism also , to condemn unjustly any particular church , as no church . and it is schism , to withdraw your bodily communion from a church that you were bound to hold communion with , upon a false supposition that it is no church , or is not lawfully to be communicated with . and it is schism , to make divisions or parties in a church , though you divide not from that church . the holiness of the party that men adhere to , is made a pretence to excuse schism ; but this must make but a gradual difference in our esteem and love to some christians above others . if really they are most holy , i must love them most , and labour to be as holy as they : but i must not therefore , unjustly deny communion , or due respect to other christians , that are less holy , nor cleave to them as a sect , or divided party , whom i esteem most holy . for the holiest are most charitable , and most against the divisions among christians , and tenderest of their unity and peace . own the best , as best , but none , as a divided sect ; espouse not their dividing interest ; confine not your especial love to a party , but extend it to all the members of christ . deny not local communion when there is occasion for it , to any church , that hath the substance of true worship , and forceth you not to sin . love them as true christians , and churches , even when they drive you from their communion . i have found that reformation is to be accomplished more by restoration of ordinances and administrations to their primitive nature and use , than by utter abolition . of the liturgy . my opinion as to liturgy in general , is , 1. that a stinted liturgy is in it self lawful . 2. that a stinted liturgy in some parts of publick service is necessary . 3. in the parts where it is not necessary , it may not only be submitted to , but desired , when the peace of the church requireth it . 4. it is not of such necessity to take the matter , and words out of the holy scriptures , but that we may joyn in a liturgy , or use it , if the form of words be not from scripture . this is thus proved : 1. that which is not directly , or consequentially forbidden by god , remaineth lawful . a stinted liturgy is not directly , or consequentially forbidden of god : therefore it remaineth lawful . the major is undoubted , because nothing but a prohibition can make a thing unlawful ; where there is no law , there is no transgression . yet i have heard very reverend men answer this , that it is enough that it is not commanded , though not forbidden , which is plainly to deny both scripture and civil principles . now for the minor , that a stinted liturgy is not forbidden , we need no other proof , than that no prohibition can be produced . if it be lawful for the people to use a stinted form of words , in publick prayer , then is it in it self lawful for the pastors : but it is lawful for the people , &c. for the pastors prayer ( which they must pray over with him , and not only hear it ) is a stinted form to them , even as much as if he had learnt it out of a book . it is lawful to use a form in preaching , therefore a stinted liturgy is lawful . 1. because preaching is a part of that liturgy . 2. because the reason is the same for prayer as for that in the main . that which hath been the practice of the church in scripture times and down to this day , and is yet the practice of almost all the churches of christ on earth , is not like to be unlawful : but such is the use of some stinted forms , &c. i have shewed , that it is was so in the jewish church . that it hath been of ancient use in the church , since christ , and at this day in africk , asia , europe , and the reformed churches in france , holland , geneva , &c. is so well known that i need not stand to prove it : and those few that seem to disuse it , do yet use it in psalms and other parts of worship . as for the common-prayer it self , i never rejected it , because it was a form ; or thought it simply unlawful , because it was such a form ; but have made use of it , and would do again in the like case . object . but if a faulty manner of praying be prescribed , and imposed by a law , i know it before-hand and am guilty of it . answ . if the thing be sinful , either it is , 1. because the prayers are defective and faulty ; or , 2. because they are imposed , or , 3. because you knew the fault before-hand : but none of these can prove your joyning with them sinful . 1. not because they are faulty ; for you may joyn with as faulty prayers ( you confess ) if not imposed . 2. not because imposed , for that is an extenuation , and not an aggravation . for ( 1. ) it proveth the minister less voluntary of the two , than those are that do it without any command , through the error of their own judgments . ( 2. ) because ( though lawful things oft become unlawful when superiors forbid them , yet ) no reason can be given , why a lawful thing should become unlawful , because a lawful superior doth command it ; else superiors might take away all our christian liberty , and make all things unlawful to us , by commanding them . you would take it for a wild conceit in your children or servants , if they say , when you bid them learn a catechism , or use a form of prayer , it was lawful for us to do it till you commanded us , but because you bid us do it , it is unlawful . if it be a duty to obey governors in all lawful things , then it is not a sin to obey them . 3. it is not your knowing before hand , that makes it unlawful : for 1. i know in general before-hand , that all imperfect men will do imperfectly : and though i know not the particular , that maketh it never the lawfuller , if foreknowledge it self did make it unlawful . 2. if you know that ( e.g. ) an antinomian , or some mistaken preacher , would constantly drop some words for his error , in praying or preaching , that will not make it unlawful in your own judgment , for you to joyn ( if it be not a flat heresie . ) 3. it is another mans error or fault that you foreknow , and not your own . 4. god himself doth as an universal cause of nature concur with men in those acts which he foreknoweth they will sinfully do , yet is not the author or approver of the sin . we ( the commissioners 1663. ) all thought a liturgy lawful , and divers learned and reverend nonconformists of london met to consider how far it was their duty or lawful to communicate with the parish churches , where they lived , in the liturgy and sacrament , and i proved four propositions : 1. that it is lawful to use a form ; 2. that it is lawful to joyn with some parish churches in the use of the liturgy ; 3. that it is lawful to joyn with some parish churches in the lords supper ; 4. that it is to some a duty to joyn with some parish churches three times a year in the lords supper : and none of the brethren seemed to dissent , but took the reasons to be valid . were i in armenia , abassia , or among the greeks , i would joyn in a much more defective form than our liturgy , rather than none . and this is the judgment of many new-england ministers , conform to the old non-conformists , who did some of them read the common-prayer , and the most of them judged it lawful to joyn in it , or else mr. hildersham , mr. rich. rogers , &c. would not write so earnestly for coming to the beginning , and preferring it before all private duties . and truly i am not able to bear the thoughts of separating from almost all christs churches upon earth ; but he that separates from one , or many , upon a reason common to almost all , doth virtually separate from almost all ; and he that separates from all among us upon the account of the unlawfulness of our liturgy , and the badness of our ministry , doth separate from them upon a reason common to almost all , or the far greatest part , as i conceive . those forms of liturgy which now are most distasted , were brought in by the most zealous religious people at the first : the many short invocations , versicles and responses , which the people use , were brought in when the souls of the faithful did abound with zeal ▪ and in holy fervors break out in such expressions , and could not well endure to be bare auditors & not vocally to bear their part in the praises of god and prayers of the church . i have shewed at large , how far god hath given men power to prescribe , and impose forms for others , and commanded others to obey them : when christ said , when ye pray , say , our father , &c. he bound the disciples in duty to do as he bid them : how forms may be imposed publickly on the congregations of believers , and on the ministers , yea though the forms imposed be worse than the exercise of their own gifts , ( though among us no man be forbidden to use his own gifts in the pulpit . ) the pharisees long liturgy ( it is like ) was in many things worse than ours ; yet christ and his apostles often joyned with them , and never condemned them . i shall now only add that the lord's prayer is a form directed to god as in the third person , and not to man only as a directory for prayer in the second person : it is not , pray to god your father in heaven that his name may be hallowed , his kingdom come , &c. but , our father which art in heaven , hallowed be thy name , &c. and it seems by the disciples words that thus john taught his disciples to pray , luke 11. 1. and we have in the scripture the mention of many set forms of service to god , which therefore we may well use . and i desire the reader again to note , that though prayer was corrupted by the pharisees , yet christ usually joyned in their synagogues , luke 14. 17. and never medled with our controversie about the lawfulness of set forms . [ this mr. baxter infers from calvins note on matth. 6. before the preface to the defence . ] of obedience to our pastors . we are indangered by divisions , principally because the self-conceited part of religious people will not be ruled by their pastors , but must have their way , and will needs be rulers of the church and them . but pleasing the ignorant professors humors , is a sin that shews us to be too humane and carnal , and hath always sad effects at last . it is a high degree of pride for persons of ( ordinary ) understandings , to conclude , that almost all christs chruches in the world for thirteen hundred years at least , have offered such worship to god , as that you are obliged to avoid it , and all their communion in it ; and that almost all the catholick church on earth at this day is below your communion , for using forms . mark , is it not more of the women and apprentices that are of this mind , than of old experienced christians ? i think till we have better taught , even our godly people , what credit and obedience is due to their teachers , and spiritual guides , the church of england shall never have peace , or any good or established order . we are broken for want of the knowledge of this truth ; till this be known we shall never be well bound up and healed . the people of the new separation , so much rule their ministers , that many of them have been forced to forsake their own judgments to comply with the violent . labour to maintain the ordinances and ministry in esteem . the church is bound to take many a man , as a true minister to them , and receive the ordinances from him , in faith and expectation of blessing , upon promise , who yet before god is a sinful invader and usurper of the ministry , and shall be condemned for it . ( how much more then to respect their lawful bishops and pastors ? ) for lay-elders , as far as i understand , the greatest part , if not three for one of the english ministers , are of this mind , that unordained elders wanting power to preach or administer sacraments , are not officers in the church of god's appointment : of this number i am one , and mr. vines was another . of bishops . as for bishops ( viz. ) a diocesan , ruling all the presbyters , but leaving the presbyters to rule the people , and consequently taking to himself the sole , or chief power of ordination , but leaving censures and absolution to them , except in case of appeal to himself ; i must needs say that this sort of episcopacy is very ancient , and hath been for many ages of very common reception through a great part of the church — and if i lived in a place , where this government were established , and managed for god , i would submit thereto , and live peaceably under it , and do nothing to the disturbance , disgrace or discouragement of it . ( you may see how far mr. vines and mr. baxter did agree in the notion of a bishop over many presbyters . ) of which grotius in his commentary on the acts , and particularly , chap. 17. saith , that as in every particular synagogue , many of which were in some one city ( in jerusalem 480. ) there was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such was the primitive bishop . and doubtless the first bishops were over the community of presbyters , as presbyters , in joynt relation to one church or region ; which region being upon the increase of believers divided into more churches , and in after-times , those churches assigned to particular men ; yet he the bishop , continued bishop over them still . for that * you say , he had a negative voice , that is more than ever i saw proved , or i think ever shall , for the first 200. years ; and yet i have laboured to enquire into it . that makes him angelus princeps , not angelus praeses , as dr. reinolds saith . calvin denies that , and makes him consul in senatu , or as the speaker in the house of parliament , which , as i have heard that d. b. did say , was but to make him foreman of the jury . as touching the introduction of ruling elders , such as are modelled out by parliament , my judgment is sufficiently known . i am of your judgment in the point , there should be such elders , as have power to preach as well as rule . on this mr. baxter reflects , p. 353. though mr. vines here yield not the negative voice to have been de facto , in the first or second age , nor to be de jure ; yet he without any question yielded to the stating of a president , durante vitâ , if he prove not unworthy , which was one point that i propounded to him ; and i make no doubt , but he would have yielded to a voluntary consent of presbyters , de facto , not to ordain without the president . and the difficulties that are before us , de facto , in setting up a parochial episcopacy , which he mentioneth , i have cleared already in these papers , shewing partly , that the thing is already existent , and partly how more fully to accomplish it . the instances which he gives , are in the episcopacy of the protestant churches in poland , from adrian regenvolscius , hist . eccles . sclavon . l. 3. p. 424. n. b. whereas from the first reformation of the churches in the province of the lesser polonia , it hath been received by use and custome , that out of the elders of all those ( districtus ) divisions , which are 36. in number , one primate , or chief , in order , who is commonly called superintendent of the churches of lesser poland , and doth preside over the provincial synods , be chosen by the authority , consent , and suffrage of the provincial synod , and that he be inaugurated , and declared , ( not by imposition of hands , to avoid the suspicion of primacy , and the appearance of authority and power over the other elders ) only by benediction , and fraternal prayers , and by reading over the offices , which concern this function , and the prayers of the whole synod , for the sake of government and good order in the church of god , &c. the other instance is of the churches of the bohemian confession , who have among the pastors of the churches , their conseniors and seniors , and one president over all , related by the same regenvolscius , p. 315. the elders or the superintendents of the bohemian and moravian churches , &c. are for the most part , chosen out of their fellow-elders , and are ordained and consecrated to the office of seigniory by imposition of hands , and publick inauguration , &c. those that treated with the bishops , 1660. did yield to such an episcopacy , as the old non-conformists would scarce generally have consented to , i. e. to bishop usher's model . episcopacy is not such an upstart thing , nor defended by such contemptible reasons , as that the controversie is like to dye with this age ; undoubtedly there will be a godly and learned party for it , while the world endureth . and it is a numerous party : all the greek church , the armenian , syrian , abassine , and all others , but a few of the reformed . for denmark , sweden , part of germany , and transylvania have a superintendency , as high as that i plead for . p. 11. if you know no godly persons of the episcopal way , i do , and as my acquaintance increaseth , i know more and more , and some i take to be much better than my self , i will say a greater word , that i know those of them , whom i think as godly , humble ministers , as most of the non-conformists , whom i know . p. 12. and i believe , there are many hundred godly ministers in the church of england , and that their churches are true churches . and i am confident , most of the ministers in england would be content to yield to such an episcopacy , as you may find in the published judgments of bish . hall , usher , dr. forbes , hodsworth , and others . preface to the five disputations , p. 9. of sacriledge . qu. 171. what is sacriledge ? ans . it is a robbing god by the unjust alienation of holy things . as deposing kings , silencing true ministers , the unjust alienating of temples , utensils , lands , days separated by god himself and justly consecrated by man. mr. vines his letter to mr. baxter , p. 35. of the 5. disput . concerning sacriledge . as for your question about sacriledge , i am very near you in the present opinion . the point was never stated nor debated in the isle of wight ; i did for my part decline the dispute , for i could not maintain the cause as on the parliament side ; and because , both i and others were unwilling , it was never brought to open debate . the commissioners did argue it with the king , but they went upon grounds of law and polity , and it was only about bishops lands ; for they then averred the continuance of dean and chapter lands to the use of the church . some deny that there is any sin of sacriledge under the gospel , and if there be any , they agree not in the definition . some hold an alienation of church-goods , in case of necessity , and then make the necessity , what , and as extensive , as they please . the most are of opinion , that while the church lyes so unprovided for , the donations are not alienable , sine sacrilegio . if there were a surplusage above the competent maintenance , it were another matter . it is clear enough , the donors wills are frustrated , and that their general intention , and the general use ( viz. the maintenance of god's worship , and ministers ) should stand , though the particular use might be superstitious . i cited in my last sermon before the parliament a place out of mr. hildersham , on psal . 51. touching sacriledge . it did not please . if his description of it be true , then you will still be of your own mind . i dare encourage no purchasers , &c. mr. baxter's advice to separating brethren . as to separation : be the backwardest to divide and separate , and do it not without a certain warrant , and extreme necessity ; resolve with augustine , i will not be the chaff , and yet i will not go out of the floor , though the chaff be there . never give over your just desire and endeavour for reformation , and yet as long as you can possibly avoid it . forsake not the church that you desire to reform ; as paul said to them , that were to forsake a shipwrackt vessel , if these abide not in the ship , ye cannot be saved . many a one , by unlawful flying and shifting for his own greater peace and safety , doth much more hazard his own and others . of raising churches against churches . the interest of the christian protestant religion in england , must be much kept up by keeping up as much of truth , piety and reputation as is possible in the parish-churches . therefore , — in parishes where all may hear the parish-minister , i would not have you , without necessity , to preach at the same hour of the day , but at some middle time , that you may not seem to vie with him for auditors , nor to draw the people from him ; but let them go with you to hear him , and after come and hear you . do not meet together in opposition to the publick meeting , nor at the time of publick worship , nor yet to make a groundless schism , or to separate from the church , whereof you are members , nor to destroy the old , that you may gather a new church out of its ruines , as long as it hath the essentials , and there is hope of reforming it ; nor yet would i have you forward to vent your own supposed gifts and parts in teaching , where there is no necessity of it ; nor as a separated church , but as a part of the church more diligent than the rest in redeeming time . let all your private meetings be in subordination to the publick , and by the approbation and consent of your spiritual guides , remembring them which have the rule over you , heb. 13. 7 , 8 , 9. and i beseech you brethren , mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them , &c. rom. 16. 17 , 18. i would you would ponder every one of these words , for they are the precious advice of the spirit of god , and necessary now as well as then . the great advantages that satan hath got upon the church through the sin of the pastors , in these later dayes , is by division . by this he hath promoted all the rest of his designs . our division gratifieth the papist , and greatly hazardeth the protestant religion , more than most of you seem to believe or regard . it advantageth profaneness , and greatly hindereth the success of the ministers ; it pleaseth satan and builds up his kingdom . the hand of god is apparently gone out against the separatists ; you see you do but prepare persons for a further progress ; seekers , ranters , quakers and too many professed infidels , do spring up from among you , as if this were the journeys end and perfection of your revolt . by such fearful desertions did god formerly witness his detestation of those that withdrew from the unity of the church . and separation will ruine the separated churches themselves ; it will admit of no consistency . parties will arise in the separated churches , and separate again from them till they are dissolved . i beseech my brethren to open their eyes so far , as to regard experience . how few separated churches do now exist , that were in being an hundred years ago , can you name any ? and would you have all the churches of christ to be dissolved ? in the year 1634. roger williams of new-england , an assistant to mr. ralph smith pastor at plymouth , where , having vented divers singular opinions , he was dismissed , went to salem , which place in a years time he filled with principles of rigid separation , tending to anabaptistry , as , that it is not lawful for an unregenerate man to pray , or take an oath , in special not the oath of fidelity to the magistrate . he forbad any of his church-members to hear the godly ministers of england when occasionally they went thither . he taught that the magistrate had nothing to do in matters of the first table ; that there should be an unlimited toleration of all religions ; that to punish any man for his conscience was persecution . he separated not only from the churches of old , but of new-england also , as antichristian . after that , he would not pray , or give thanks with his own wife or family , because they went to the church-assemblies . he kept private meetings by way of separation from , and opposition to the church-assembly ; and being banished as a disturber of the peace , he sate down at a place called providence , and there fell to anabaptistry , renouncing infant baptism . and after a while he told his people , that he was out of the way himself , and had misled them , for he could not find that any on earth had power to administer baptism , and therefore their last baptism was a nullity as well as the first , and that they must wait for the coming of new apostles ; and so they dissolved and turned seekers . the case of the summer islands as related by mr. vaughan , a worthy minister come from thence upon discouragement , would make a christian heart to bleed . to hear how strict and regular , and hopeful that plantation once was , and how one godly minister by separation , selecting a few to be his church , rejecting all the rest from the sacrament , the rejected party were dolefully estranged from religion , and the selected party turned quakers . but our own case is yet a more lamentable proof , what separation hath done against religion ; so that it is my wonder that any good man can over-look it . above all things i intreat the dividing brethren , if they can so long lay aside partiality , to judge of the reasons of their separation . the defects of the liturgy , and the faults of those by whom we suffer , are easily heightned even beyond desert . but when many of us vent untruths , and slanders against our brethren , and multiply publick untruths , we never make scruple of communion with such . suppose one should say , that a people guilty of such sins , as are condemned , exod. 23. 1 , 2. ps . 15. 3. rom. 1. 30 , &c. ( i. e. raising false reports , reproaching our neighbours , strife and debates ) should not be communicated with , especially when not one of these offenders is called to repentance for it , what answer will you give to this which will not confute your own objections against communion with many parish churches in this land ? as to popery ; the interest of the protestant religion must be much kept up , by the means of the parish ministers , and by the doctrine and worship there performed ; and they that think and endeavour contrary to this , ( of which side soever ) shall have the hearty thanks and concurrence of the papists . nor am i causelesly afraid , that if we suffer the principles and practices , which i write against , to proceed without our contradiction , popery will get by it so great advantage as may hazard us all , and we may lose that which the several parties do contend about . three ways especially popery will grow out of our divisions , 1. by the odium and scorn of our disagreements , inconsistency , and multiplied sects , they will perswade people , that we must either come for unity to them , or else all run mad , and crumble into dust and individuals . thousands have been drawn to popery , or confirmed in it , by this argument already : and i am perswaded , that all the arguments else in bellarmine , and all other books that ever were written , have not done so much to make papists in england , as the multitude of sects among our selves . some professors of religious strictness and great esteem for godliness , having run from sect to sect , and finding no consistency turned papists themselves . 2. who knows not how fair a game the papists have to play by our divisions ? methinks i hear them hissing on both parties , saying to one side , lay more upon them , and abate them nothing : and to the other , stand it out , and yield to nothing : hoping that our divisions will carry us to such practices , as shall make us accounted seditious , rebellious , and dangerous to publick peace , and so they may pass for better subjects than we , or else , that they may get a toleration together with us . and shall they use our hands to do their work ? we have already served them unspeakably , both in this , and in abating the odium of the gunpowder plot , and other treasons . 3. it is not the least of our danger , lest by our follies , extremities and rigors we so exasperate the common people , as to make them readier to joyn with the papists , than with us , in case of competitions , invasions or insurrections against the king and kingdoms peace . the papists account , that if the puritans get the day , they shall make great advantage of it ; for they will be unsetled , and all in pieces , and not know how to settle the government . factions and distractions ( say they ) give us footing for continual attempts . to make all sure , we will secretly have our party among puritans also , that we may be sure to maintain our interest . let the magistrate cherish the disputations of the teachers , and let him procure them often to debate together , and reprove one another ; for so , when all men see , that there is nothing certain among them , they will easily yield , ( saith contzen the jesuit . ) of spiritual pride . proud men will not grow in the same field , or church , where tares do grow , but will transplant themselves , because god will not pluck up the tares , especially if any ministerial neglect of discipline be conjoyned ; and instead of blaming their own pride , lay the blame on the corruptions of the church . — the pharisees liturgy is frequent in separate assemblies , god i thank thee , i am not as other men . but this is very remarkable , that it is a pretence of our impurity , and a greater purity with you that is pleaded by such as first turn over to you ; and that this height of all impieties should be the usual issue of a way , pretended so exact and clean , doubtless it is not gods mind , by this to discourage any from purity and true reformation , but to shew his detestation of that spiritual pride , which maketh men to have too high thoughts of themselves , and too much to contemn others , and to desire to be further separated from them , than god in the day of grace doth allow of . consider this , it is the judgment of some , that thousands are gone to hell , and ten thousands on their march thither , that in all probability had never come there , if they had not been tempted from the parish churches , for injoyment of communion in a purer church . he that causeth differences of judgment and practice , & contendings in the church , doth cause divisions , though none separate from the church . if you may not divide in the church , nor from it , then you may not causelesly divide from it your selves . and commonly appearance , advantage , interest , and a taking tone and voice do more with the most , than solid evidence of truth . but they who desire to have a party follow them , and are busie in perswading others to be of their mind , and speak perverse things , &c. are guilty of church divisions . do not you condemn a carnal state ? remember they are carnal , who are contentious dividers in the churches , 1 cor. 3. 1. you will disallow a fleshly mind and life ; remember then , that the works of the flesh are these , as adultery , fornication , &c. so hatred , or enmity , variance , emulations , wrath , strife , seditions , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dividings into parties . — when once parties are ingaged by their opinions in anti-churches , and fierce disputings , the flesh and satan will be working in them against all that is holy , sweet , and safe . of superstition . do you not hate superstition ? consider then , what superstition is ; it is the making of any new parts of religion to our selves , and fathering them upon god. of this there are two sorts , positive , and negative . when we falsely say , this is a duty commanded by god , or when we falsely say , this is a sin forbidden by god , take heed of both . for instance , the scripture telleth us of no church-elders , but what were ordained , and of none but such as were of the same office with the preaching pastors or elders , of none that had not authority to baptize and administer the lords supper ; nor doth church-history tell us of any other , as a divine office . but now we have concluded , that there is a distinct office of ruling elders , who need not be ordained , and who have no power to baptize , or to administer the lords supper . this i think is superstition , for we feign god to have made a church-office which he never made . — that it is simply unlawful to use a form of prayer , or to read a prayer on a book ; that if a school-master impose a form upon a scholar , or a parent on a child , it maketh it become unlawful ; that our presence maketh us guilty of all the errors , or unmeet expressions of the minister , in publick worship , at least if we before know of them , and therefore that we must joyn with none , whose errors or mis-expression we know of before ; — that we are guilty of the sins of all unworthy or scandalous communicants , if we communicate with them , though their admission is not by our fault ; that he whose judgment is against a diocesan-church may not lawfully joyn with a parish-church , if the minister be but subject to the diocesan ; that whatsoever is unlawfully commanded , is not lawful to be obeyed ; that it is unlawful to do any thing in the worship of god , which is imposed by men , and is not commanded in the scripture : these and more such as these are superstitions , which some religious people have brought in . and by all such inventions fathered upon god , and made a part of religion , the minds of men are corrupted , and disquieted , and the churches disturbed and divided . of censoriousness . is not censoriousness and rash judging a sin ? yet one congregation of the division labours to make others odious and contemptible , and that is called the preaching of truth and purer worshipping of god. i have seen this grow up to the height of ranters , in horrid blasphemies ; and then of quakers , in disdainful pride and surliness , and into seekers , that were to seek for a ministry , a church , a scripture , and consequently a christ . i have lived to see it put to the question ( in the little parliament ) whether all the ministers of the parishes of england should be put down at once . i have seen how confidently the killing of the king , the rebellious demolishing of the government of the land , the killing of many thousands of their brethren , the turnings and overturnings of all kind of rule , even that which themselves set up , have been committed , and justified , and profanely fathered upon god ; these with much more such fruits of love-killing principles i have seen . if you converse with censorious separatists , you shall hear so many invectives against them that are truly catholick and sober , as will make you think , that love and peace and catholick communion are some sinful and mischievous things . the experience of 26. years in this kingdom may convince the world , what crimes may stand with high professions ; such as the generation springing up will scarce believe . what high professors were the proudest overturners of all government , and resisters and despisers of ministry and holy order in the churches ? the most railing quakers , and most filthy blaspheming ranters , to warn the world to take heed of being proud of superficial gifts , and high profession , and that he that stands in his own conceit should take heed lest he fall . i have much ado to forbear naming some high professors known lately at worcester , exeter , and other places , who dyed apostate-infidels , deriding christianity , and the immortality of the soul , who once were separatists . and i have heard of some separatists , who when others of a contrary judgment were going to the churches at london , looked in at the doors , saying , the devil choak thee , art thou not out of thy pottage yet ? i commend to all that of the apostle , phil. 2. 3. let nothing be done through strife and vain glory , but in bowliness of mind let each esteem others better than themselves . read this verse over on your knees , and beg of god to write it on your hearts . and i would wish all assemblies of dividers and unwarrantable separtists , to write it over the doors of their meeting-places , and join with it rom. 12. 10. but especially study james 3. in a word , if god would cure the church of religious pride , the pride of wisdom , and the pride of piety and goodness , the church would have fewer heresies and contentions , and much more peace , true wisdome and goodness . the forwardness of many to keep open divisions , and to affect communion with none , but such as say as they do , is a down-right mark of a schismatick . and i know that dividing principles and dispositions do tend directly to the ruine and damnation of those in whom they do prevail . when men fall into several parties , burning in zeal against each other , abating charity , censuring and condemning one another , backbiting and reviling each other , through envy and strife ; when they look strangely on each other , as being of several sides , as if they were not children of the same father , nor members of the same body , or as if christ were divided , one being of paul , and another of apollo , &c. and every one of a faction , letting out their thoughts in jealousies and evil surmises of each other , perverting the words and actions of each to an ugly sense ; and snatching occasions to present one another as fools , or odious to the hearers ( as if you should plainly say , i pray you hate , or despise these people , whom i hate and despise : ) this is the core of the plague sore , it is schism in the bud . s. 16. when people in the same church do gather into private meetings , not under the guidance of their pastors , to edifie one another in holy exercises , in love and peace , but in opposition to their lawful pastors , or to one another , to propagate their single opinions , and increase their parties , and speak against those that are not on their side , schism is then ready to increase and multiply , and the swarm is ready to come forth , and be gone . s. 17. when these people actually depart , and renounce or forsake the communion of the church , and cast off their faithful pastors , and draw into a separated body by themselves , and choose them pastors , and call themselves a church , and all without any just , sufficient cause ; when thus churches are gathered out of churches , before the old ones are dissolved , or they have any warrant to depart ; when thus pastor is set up against pastor , church against church , and altar against altar , this is schism ripe and fruitful , the swarm is gone and hived in another place . s. 19. if they shall also judge that church to be no church from which they separated , and so cut off a part of the body of christ by an unrighteous censure , and condemn the innocent , and usurp authority over their guides ; this is disobedience and uncharitableness , with schism . a true christian that hateth fornication , drunkenness , lying , perjury , because forbidden in the word of god , will hate divisions also , which are so frequently and vehemently forbidden , jo. 17. 21 , 22. ro. 14. throughout . ro. 15. 12. 1 cor. 1. 10. eph. 4. 1 , 2 , &c. 1 cor. 12. phil. 3. 15. ro. 16. 17 , 18. 1 tim. 1. 4. james 3. the mischief of divisions may be seen at large , p. 739. q. may , or must a minister , silenced , or forbid to preach the gospel , go on still to preach it against the law ? answ . he that is silenced by just power , though unjustly , in a country , that needeth not his preaching , must forbear there , and if he can , must go into another country , where he may be more serviceable . we must do any lawful thing to procure the magistrates licence to preach in his dominions . how humane laws bind the conscience . q. whether the laws of men do bind the conscience ? answ . p. 37. taking conscience in a stricter sense , as including essentially , a relation to god's obligation , the full sense of the question is this , whether it be a sin against god to break the laws of man ? answ . it is a sin against god to break such laws , as rulers are authorized by god to make : first , because god commandeth us to obey our rulers . god commandeth us to obey in general , and their law determineth of the particular matter , therefore god obligeth us ( in conscience of his law ) to obey them in that particular . 2. because by making them his officers , by his commission , he hath given them a certain beam of authority , which is divine , as derived from god ; therefore they can command us by a power derived from god : therefore to disobey is to sin against a power derived from god. man being god's officer , first his own law layeth on us an obligation on derivatively divine , ( for it is no law , which hath no obligation , and it is no authoritative obligation , which is not derived from god. ) 2. god's own law bindeth us to obey man's laws , romans 13. and it may be a good reason to perswade obedience to our ecclesiastical governours , because preaching is a cheap and easie work , in comparison of church-government . take heed of engaging your selves in a sect , or faction ; a narrow sectarian separating mind will make all the truths of god give place to the opinions of his party , and measure the prosperity of the gospel , by the prosperity of his party ; he will not stick to persecute all the rest of the church of christ , if the interest of his sect require it . overvalue not any private or singular opinions of your own , or others ; for , if once spiritual pride and ignorance of your own weakness make you espouse particular opinions , as peculiarly your own , you will think your conceits more illuminating and necessary , than they are , as if mens sincerity lay in the imbracing of them , and their salvation on the receiving of them ; and think all that are against your opinion , deserve to be cast out as enemies to reformation ; and perhaps , twenty years after , experience may bring you to your wits , and make you see the falshood , or smalness of all those points , which you made so great a matter of , and then what comfort will you have of your persecutions ? o the deceitfulness of the heart of man ! little do the many real separatists , who cry out against persecution , suspect , that the same spirit is in them . whence is persecution , but from thinking ill of others , and abhorring or not loving them ? and do not you do so by those whom you causlesly separate from ? it is one and the same sin in the persecutor and divider , or separatist , which causeth the one to smite their brethren , and the other to excommunicate them ; the one to cast them into prison as schismaticks , and the other to cast them out of the church as profane ; the one to account them intolerable in the land , and the other to account them intolerable in the church : the inward thoughts of both are the same , that those whom they smite or separate from , are bad and unlovely , and unfit for better usage . but i have observed that professors of religion did oppose and deride almost all that worship of god out of ( pretended ) conscience , which others did out of profaness . saints rest , part 1. c. 7. sect. 14. it was none of the old cause , that the people should have liberty , and the magistrate should have no power , in all matters of god's worship , faith and conscience : and as it is not the old cause , so it is not the good cause . for first , it contradicteth the express revelation of the will of god in the holy scripture . moses , as a magistrate , had to do in matters of religion , and so had the kings of israel , and judah . — law , and providence , are both quite changed , if toleration of false worship , and other abuses of religion tend not to the ruine of the common-wealth . if magistrates must give liberty for all to propagate a false religion , then so must parents and masters also , which would be a crime so horrid in the nature and effects of it , as i am loth to name with its proper titles . the magistrates will quickly find that the distractions of the church will breed and feed such distractions in the common-wealth , as may make them wish they had quenched the fire , while it was yet quenchable . — our unity is not only our strength , but their strength ; and the fire that begun in the church , may , if let alone , reach the court. pag. 423. of his 5. disputations , he lays down this as the summ of what he had said , that man may determine of modes and circumstances of worship , necessary and commanded in genere , but not determined by god in specie , sect. 65. and then infers , sect. 67. if the mischoosing of such circumstances by church-governors be but an inconvenience , and do not destroy the ordinance it self , or frustrate the ends of it , we are to obey . 1. for he is the judge in his own work , and not we . 2. the thing is not sinful though inconvenient . 3. obedience is commanded to our lawful governors . sect. 70. and when we do obey in a case of miscommanding , it is not a doing evil that good may come of it , as some do misconceive ; but it is only a submitting to that which is ill-commanded , but not evil in him that doth submit . it is the determiner that is the cause of the inconvenience , and not the obeyer . nor is it inconvenient for me to obey , though it be worse perhaps to him that commandeth : while he sinneth in commanding , he may make it my duty to obey , p. 461. sect. 6. the reasons of this are obvious and clear , even because it is the office of the governors to determine of such circumstances : it is the pastor's office to guide and over-see the flock , and when he determineth these , he is but in his own way , and doth but his own work ; and therefore he is therein the judge , if the case be controvertible . if none shall obey a magistrate or pastor in the works of their own office , as long as they think he did them not the best way , all governours then would be presently overthrown , and obedience denyed . we are sure that god hath commanded us to obey them that are ever us in the lord , 1 thess . 5. 12. hebr. 13. 7. 17 , &c. and therefore a certain duty may not be forborn on uncertain conjectures , or upon every miscarriage of them that we owe it to . this would un-church all churches ( as they are political societies : ) for if pastors be taken down , and the work of pastors , the church is taken down . s. 7. and the things in which the pastor is now supposed to err , are not of themselves unlawful , but only by such an accident as being overweighed by another accident shall cease to make them unlawful . for instance , p. 461. sect. 4. if of two translations of scripture or two versions of the psalms the pastor use the worser , ( so it be tolerable ) we must obey . and sect. 7. if the pastor appoint a more imperfect version of the psalms to be sung in the church ( as is commonly used in england ) the obeying of him in the use of this will not bring so much hurt to the church , as the disobeying on that account would do . for besides the sin of disobedience it self , the church would be in a confusion if they forsake his conduct that preserves the union ; and some will be for this and some for that , and so the worship it self will be overthrown . and let it still be remembred , that we allow both magistrates and pastors to see to the execution of god's laws , and to determine of circumstances in order thereto that are necessary in genere , p. 482. sect. 35. but not determined of god in specie , p. 422. § . 65. it may be very sinful to command some ceremonies which may lawfully , yea must in duty be used by the subject when they are commanded , p. 398. certain things commonly called ceremonies may lawfully be used in the church upon humane imposition , and when it is not against the law of god ; no person should disobey the laws of their lawful governors in such things . if there should be any pastors of the churches who instead of concurring to heal the flock of these dividing principles , shall rather joyn with backbiters and incourage them in their misreports and slanders , because it tends to the supposed interest of their party or themselves ; let them prepare to answer such unfaithfulness to their consciences , which will be shortly awakened ; and to the great shepherd of the flock , who is at the door , and who told even the devils agents that , a house or kingdom divided against it self cannot stand , but is brought to nought . postscript . i have proposed such arguments for conformity as i occasionally met with in such books of mr. baxter's as came to my hands . if i had consulted others , i doubt not but i might have found many more as cogent as these : but these being satisfactory and of eternal verity , i humbly desire mr. baxter and others of his perswasion to consider them , nor can i doubt but mr. baxter will charitably accept of these my endeavours for peace , upon his own weighty arguments ; and the rather because i believe him by his writings to be a man of a great experience in the temper of the people , of a quick and discerning judgment , that can look through causes into the consequences and effects that will naturally result from them , and moreover a person of so great sincerity that he will by no means stray from , but readily defend his own principles , which are sound and pacificatory . and seeing he hath done as st. paul did , ( of whom tertullian notes he did perswade to peace , totis spiritûs sancti viribus ) i believe he is one that longeth to see the healing of our churches , and that tendered his arguments to all sorts , charging them to do so much as appears to be necessary , as they are true to christ , to his church and gospel , to their own and others souls , and to the peace and welfare of the nations ; and as they will answer the neglect to christ at their peril . ( in the title of a treatise of confirmation . ) and in his answer to dr. tully ( title page ) a compassionate lamenter of the churches wounds caused by hasty judging and undigested conceptions , and by the theological wars which are hereby raised , and managed , by perswading the world that meer verbal , or notional differences are material , and such as our love , concord and communion must be measured by , for want of an equal discussion of the ambiguity of words . one who ( in the epistle to the reader for confirmation ) exhorts to pray for the peace of jerusalem , ( because ) they shall prosper that love it , and to seek it of god and man , which was his own daily though too defective practice , as a servant of the king of peace : to him and all others as such i propose the following concessions , and the conclusions inferred from them . in his christian directory , p. 854. 1. he that is silenced by just power though unjustly ( in a country that needeth not his preaching ) must forbear there . and p. 560. of the saints rest , he tells us as to his particular , if god would dispense with me for my ministerial services without any loss to his people , i should leap as lightly as bishop ridley when he was stript of his pontificalia ; and say as paedaretus the laconian when he was not chosen into the number of the three hundred men , i thank thee o god that thou hast bestowed on this city so many men better than my self . 2. that it is lawful to hold communion with our churches having but tolerable pastors , notwithstanding the parochial order , and the ministers conformity and use of the common-prayer book ; and that we ought to do so when some special reasons ( as from authority , scandal , &c. ) do require it . second admonition to bagshaw , p. 78. 3. that when men are carried to separate on such ( pretended ) grounds , they will be no where fixt , but may still be subdividing and separating from one another till they are resolved into individuals , and have left no such thing as a church among them , p. 486. of the five disputations : and p. 487. by disobedience in lawful things , the members of the church will be involved in contentions , and so ingaged in bitter uncharitableness , censures , persecutions , and reproaches of one another . 4. though ministerial conformity is now much altered ( as to ingagements ) many of the assembly of divines yet living do conform again , nor would i shun communion with the reverend members of that assembly , twiss , gataker , whitaker , and the rest , if again they used the liturgy among us . and if the old non-conformists , such as bolton , &c. were alive , and used now the same liturgy and ceremonies as they did then ( which was worse than now ) i could not think their communion in prayer and sacraments unlawful , nor censure that man as injurious to the church who should write to perswade others not to separate from them . defence of principles of love , p. 12 , 13. and mr. baxter's practice in receiving the sacrament confirmeth the same . 5. if any pastor instead of concurring to heal the flocks of dividing principles shall rather joyn with backbiters and incourage them in their misreports and slanders , because it tends to the supposed interest of their party or themselves , let them prepare to answer such unfaithfulness to their consciences which will be shortly awakened ; and to the great shepherd of the flock who is at the door , and who told even the devils agents that a house or kingdom divided cannot stand , &c. p. 253. h. c. 6. the magistrate will quickly find that the distractions of the church will quickly breed and feed such distractions in the common-wealth , as may make them wish they had quenched the fire while it was yet quenchable . our unity is not only our strength but their strength , and the fire that begun in the church , may , if let alone , reach the court. of confirmation , p. 309. now from these premises i suppose the conclusions following may be truly inferred , a conformity to which would be a great means to destroy nonconformity to the church and publick worship , both in ministers and people . 1. those that are silenced by a just power ( or rather have silenced themselves and uncharitably deserted the established worship of god ) ought not to gather congregations in place and manner distinct from the publick worship . by the first proposition . 2. communion with our parish churches being lawful , and the peoples duty by the second proposition , they who by such dividing practices as tend to undermine and deprave the reputation , and dissolve the very constitution of the parochial worship , and to encourage and harden known schismaticks in their separation , ( for if the like should be generally practised through the nation , it would inevitably scandalize the established ministry , alienate the affections of their people , and renew divisions among them ) do act very irregularly and unlawfully . 3. such practices do unfix the people and cause them to run into divisions and subdivisions , reproaches and persecutions of one another , proposition 3. and who knows into what confusions such practices may carry us ? 4. ministerial conformity being submitted to by many of the assembly of divines , and no sinful act required to make it unlawful ( which if there had been , they or some others would and ought to have discovered it , and then i doubt not it would by authority have been taken away , but that being not done ) the ministers ought to conform by the same rules as the people ought , which is granted by proposition 4. and confirmed by mr. baxters practice in receiving the sacrament , &c. such pastors as instead of concurring to heal the flock of dividing principles , do rather joyn with backbiters and incourage them in their misreports and slanders , because it tends to the supposed interest of their party or themselves , cannot answer it to their conscience nor to the great shepherd of the flock . propos . 5. 5. if such minister or people do continue the distractions of the church , it is the magistrates duty and interest speedily to quench the fire which they are kindling , or if may ruine both church and state. by propos . 6. and let ministers see that no seducers creep in among the people , or it they do , be diligent to countermine them and preserve their people from the insection of heresies and schisms . saints rest . p. 543. 6. let such men consider , whether any sober , rational or good men , that have loved and followed them , can heartily respect them , or make them their spiritual guides , when it appears that they do ordinarily and considerately act and practise contrary to their own irrefragable arguments , protestations and perswasions . and lastly , if such ministers cannot fully conform themselves ( which would be an acceptable service to god and the church , ( they having opportunities ▪ and advantages to add many thousands to the publick assemblies and to confirm others that are wavering through their examples ) yet that they would conform in what they may , and continue to teach by example as well as precept what may help to repair our breaches , lest we be exposed again to a common ruine and confusion . and now methinks that summons which troubled quintilius varus , should alway run in the minds of such men : quintili vare , redde legiones : you that have intruded upon the cure of souls committed to others , restore those legions which are withdrawn from christ's fold , and remember , ( what mr. baxter says as to his own reputation , in a preface to mr. caryl ) non remittitur peccatum , nisi restituatur ablatum . calvin's epistle before the geneva catechism : ubi ad summum illud tribunal ventum fuerit , &c. when we shall come to that great tribunal where we are to render an account of our ministry , there shall be no question concerning ceremonies , neither shall this conformity in outward things be brought to examination , but the lawful use of our liberty , and that shall be adjudged lawful that conduceth most to edification . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a49123-e3660 p. 195. p. 196. p. 198. p. 196. p. 205. p. 208. p. 209. p. 215. p. 209. p. 210. p. 214. p. 215. p. 227. p. 227. p. 228. p. 229. p. 229. p. 222. p. 221. p. 223. * optatus lib. 1. contra parmen . says , parmenianus whose grandfather was majorinus , that departed from the chair of cecilian & s. cyprian , was an heir of the schismaticks . tit. 1. 10 , 11. gal. 5. 2. anno 1571. * ità convitiis debacchatur ut plusculum in eo modestiae desiderare cogor ; utinam argumentis tantùm egisset , & à convitiis temperâsset . eras . in praefat . epist . hieron . ad vigilantium . see the hist . of donatists . * serm. on joh. 18. 36. p. 146. anno 787. anno 168. it is impossible to propound any form of liturgie wherein both parts can hold it lawful to communicate . infidelity unmasked ▪ p. 216. * ubi suprá . the taste of liberty is so sweet , that except kings maintain their authority with as great violence as the people affect their liberty , all things will run to confusion . golden remains , p. 149. non enim nè dubium malum eveniat , certum & liquidum officium nostrum des●rere debemus , nec vel sanctissimos fines per illicitae media consectari . dissert . de pace , p. 77. quis erit schismatum modus , si promiscua dissentio ad secessionem sufficit ? p. 91. * see the reasons for necessity of reformation , p. 36. as for orders established , sith equity and reason favour that which is in being , till orderly judgment of decision be given against it , it is but justice to exact of you , and perverseness in you it would be to deny thereunto your willing obedience . mr. hooker's preface , i assert , that as to things in the judgment of the primitive and reformed churches left undetermined by the law of god , and in matters of meer decency and order , and wholly as to the form of government , every one , notwithstanding what his private judgment may be of them , is bound for the peace of the church of god to submit to the lawful determination of the lawful governors of the church . idem . 1 pet. 2. 13. * acts 26. 12. acts 12. 12. plures efficimur quoties metimur à vobis ; crudelitas vestra est gloria nostra . tertul. apol. notes for div a49123-e16180 preface to ● . disput . p. 6. defence of principles of love . p. 64. notes for div a49123-e16300 ☞ ☞ freface to christian direct . ad finem . notes for div a49123-e17030 epistle dedicatory to saints rest . saints rest p. 551. p. 666. notes for div a49123-e17320 p. 55. p. 57. p. 12 , 13. defense ▪ p. 89. notes for div a49123-e17640 christian directory , p. 747. see christ . direct . p. 606. notes for div a49123-e17770 christ . direct . p. 902. p. 807. p. 810. ibid. p. 812. p. 814. p. 815. 〈…〉 . notes for div a49123-e18140 p. 856. p. 857. p. 857. notes for div a49123-e18330 p. 85● . 859. 882. notes for div a49123-e18550 p. 882. notes for div a49123-e18620 p. 896. notes for div a49123-e18700 p. 901. notes for div a49123-e18760 902. notes for div a49123-e18830 p. 915. notes for div a49123-e18910 five disp . p. 361. p. 401. p. 409. p. 411. 412. christian direct . p. 884. notes for div a49123-e19040 five disp. p. 412. 416. p. 117. see christian directory . p. 885. notes for div a49123-e19130 p. 418. notes for div a49123-e19170 p. 398. of confirmation , p. 207 , 220 , 230. notes for div a49123-e19270 christ . direct . p. 916. christ. direct . p. 49. notes for div a49123-e19420 christian director . p. 616. five disp . p. 411. defense , p. 177. christ . direct . p. 607. christian direct . p. 48. p. 49. baxter of confirmation , p. 3. notes for div a49123-e19670 dispute the 4th . of church government . p. 358. p. 359. see christian direct . p. 847. p. 36● . p. 364. christian directory , p. 748. see christian direct . p. 848. defence , p. 38. p. 176. p. 54. cure of divisions , p 200. p. 174. p. 179. p. 185. five disput p. 363. notes for div a49123-e20270 sacrileg . deserting , p. 103. p 101 , 102. baxter against crandon , p. 83. cure of divis . p. 393. saints rest , p. 519. church government , p. 131. 5. disput . preface , p. 4. notes for div a49123-e20510 five disp. p. 20. p. 352. sigonius de repub. heb. l. 2. c. 8. * mr. baxter . defence , p. 65. notes for div a49123-e21160 christ . direct p. 916. notes for div a49123-e21320 cure of divis . p. 80. notes for div a49123-e21410 defence , p. 36. sacrilegious deserting , p. 92. saints rest , p. 518. preface to confess . defence , p. 17. epistle to separate congregations . defence , p. 50. answ . to exceptions p. 170. defence , p. 68. defence , p. 21. p. 52. key for cathol . baxter's holy common-wealth notes for div a49123-e21980 epistle to separate congreg . christian direct . p. 733. cure of divisions , p. 359. defence , p. 3. cure of divis . p. 77. notes for div a49123-e22230 p. 282. p. 288. 290. p. 292. notes for div a49123-e22300 preface to cure of divisions . cure. p. 152. p. 24. p. 268. p. 188. p. 22. preface to confess . christian director . p. 734. christian direct . p. 854. notes for div a49123-e22690 p. 36. part the 4th . 〈…〉 christ. direct . part 4th . p. 73. cure of divisions , p. 254. 261. h. common-wealth : addit . to pref. prop. of confir . p. 309. cure of divisions , p. 253. a reply to the catholick gentlemans answer to the most materiall parts of the booke of schisme whereto is annexed, an account of h.t. his appendix to his manual of controversies, concerning the abbot of bangors answer to augustine / by h. hammond. hammond, henry, 1605-1660. 1654 approx. 520 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 95 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2006-06 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a45460 wing h598 estc r9274 11808508 ocm 11808508 49478 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a45460) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 49478) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 495:20) a reply to the catholick gentlemans answer to the most materiall parts of the booke of schisme whereto is annexed, an account of h.t. his appendix to his manual of controversies, concerning the abbot of bangors answer to augustine / by h. hammond. hammond, henry, 1605-1660. [2], 185, [1] p. printed by j.g. for r. royston ..., london : 1654. reproduction of original in bristol public library, bristol, england. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng turberville, henry, d. 1678. -manual of controversies. hammond, henry, 1605-1660. -of schisme. b. p. -answer to the most materiall parts of dr. hammond's booke of schisme. schism. 2005-12 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-01 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2006-01 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a reply to the catholick gentlemans answer to the most materiall parts of the booke of schisme . whereto is annexed , an account of h. t. his appendix to his manual of controversies , concerning the abbot of bangors answer to augustine . by h. hammond , d. d. london , printed by j. g. for r. royston , at the angel in ivie-lane . 1654. a reply to the catholick gentlemans answer to the book of schisme . the introduction . nū . 1 the letter from the catholick gentleman , which undertakes to have answered the most materiall parts of the book of schisme , is said to expect some account from me . and i shall give it , if not quite , with the same brevity , yet directly in the same method which he hath chosen , attending him , as he shall please to lead , not by resuming the whole matter againe , but by reflecting on those few passages , which he hath thought good to take notice of , and freeing them from all though the lightest exceptions , which he hath made to them . num. 2 upon this account , i shall say very little to his prooem in these words , sir , you have been pleased to send me doctor hammonds booke of schisme , or a defence of the church of england , against the exceptions of the romanists , as also your letters , wherein you lay commands on me to read it , and thereupon to give you my opinion : truly sir , both the one and the other could never have come to me in better season , for having heard from some of my friends in england a good while since , of another book , written by doctor ferne to the same purpose , as also one lately come out , of the bishop of derries , and of this which you have sent me , i was wondring what those , who call themselves of the church of england , could say to defend themselves from schisme ; but now through your favour of letting me see this of doctor hammonds , i am freed from my bondage , and satisfied , in supposition , that the most can adde little to what hath been upon that subject of schisme said by him , whom you stile wise and learned , and well may he be so ; but here he hath failed , as all men must that take in hand to defend a bad cause , which i thinke to make appeare to you , or any indifferent judge , and which i will doe rather upon some observations of severall passages in his book , than consideration of the whole , which i will leave for some other , who hath more leisure . in the meane time i must say with the poet , speaking of some lawyers in his time , fur es , ait pedio , pedius quid ? crimina raris librat in antithetis : the roman catholick sayes to doctor hammond , you are an heretick , you are a schismatick , and doctor hammond replies good english , some criticismes , much greek , with many citations out of antiquity , indifferent to both parts of the question . num. 3 i shall not here need solemnly to aveit the good words bestowed on me , because 1. if they had been meant in earnest , they have yet no influence on the matter in hand ; as unlearned a man , as i , and as learned as he , which is by some characters thought to be the author of this answer , may agree in this common fate , that as one is not able to defend a bad cause , so the other hath not in any eminent manner betrayed a good : 2. because 't is evident , that it was designe , and artifice to bestow the good words on me , that so he might get himselfe the easier taske : and therefore the onely thing that is here necessary for me to tell the reader , by way of prooeme , is , that since the publishing this tract of schisme , that most excellent discourse on the same subject , written by the bishop of derry hath truly made that former care of mine very unnecessary , and so should in all reason have been undertaken and answered by this catholick gentleman , if he had really designed to satisfie conscience in this question . and should it be believed by him ; what here he saith in the title page , that he hath answered the most materiall parts of doctor hammonds book of schisme , yet i can assure him he is so much mistaken in his supposall , that there can little be added by any to what hath been said by him , that he is in all justice to undeceive the reader , and make him amends by giving him not a slight , but punctuall answer to every part of that bishops booke , before he thinke he may safely charge the church of england with schisme , as still he adventures to doe . num. 4 having said this , i shall make no kinde of reply , to the rest of his prooeme , but proceed immediately to his first and onely exception , wherein the first chapter is concerned . chap. i of the cause of schisme being left out of this debate . sect. i. no cause able to justifie schisme . every voluntary division a schisme , whatsoever the motive were . master knot 's testimony . num. 1 his words are these , but to draw neere your satisfaction , his first chapter is , for the body of it , common to both parts , yet i cannot omit one strange piece of logick at the end of the first chapter , sect. 9. where he concludeth , that the occasion or motive of schisme is not to be considered , but onely the fact of schisme , of which position i can see no connexion to any praemises going before , and it selfe is a pure contradiction , for not a division , but a causlesse division is a schisme , and how a division can be shewed to be unreasonable and causelesse , without examining the occasions and motives , i doe not understand , nor ( with his favour ) i thinke he himselfe . num. 2 what want of logick there is in that conclusion of the first chapter , which extorted this animadversion from the romanist , and what store of that faculty ( somewhat necessary to the managing of a controversie ) we are to expect from him , will soon be discernible by the view of that place which is accused by him , where having praemised the criminousnesse and weight of schisme , and unexcusablenesse of all , that , upon what provocation soever , breake the unity of the church , i conclude that he that shall really be guilty of it , and the fact , wherein that guilt consists , proved against him will no way be able to defend himselfe by pleading the cause or motive to his schisme , there being no such cause imaginable , which can justifie this fact of his , as both out of irenaeus and saint augustine had been newly vouched . upon which , my resolution there , was ( as to me seemed ) but necessary , to divolve the whole debate into this one quaere , whether we of the church of england were de facto , guilty of this crime , were schismaticks or no , concluding that if we were , there were nothing to be said in excuse of us . num. 3 from this view of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the rational importance of that section , 1. it is evident ( what the romanist professeth not to be able to see ) what is the connexion of my position to the praemises foregoing , viz. this , no cause can excuse the schismatick , therefore the examination of the cause is unnecessary , whatsoever can be pretended on that head , is not worth the producing or heeding in this matter . num. 4 2. 't is as evident how farre the position it selfe is removed from being a contradiction , which yet the romanists logick hath pronounced to be a pure one . a pure contradiction is in our logick , est and non est , it is a schisme , and it is not a schisme , it is causlesse , and it is not causlesse , and the like . but certainly my concluding that no cause can justifie a schisme , or if the schisme be proved , t is in vain to plead that we had cause for it , containes no such contradictory enuntiations . he that should say that a seditious person or a rebell , is worthy of death whatsoever cause it were that incited him to that villanie , doth neither affirme the rebell to be no rebell , nor the cause he pretends , to be no cause , onely he saith indeed , that whatsoever the cause be , 't is incompetent to justifie so foule a fact . num. 5 3. the proofe , which he addes to conclude this position to be a pure contradiction , is very farre from proving it . the proof is this , for , saith he , not a division , but a causelesse division is a schisme . but this hath been shewed to have no truth in it , because division and schisme being exactly the same , one a latine , the other a greek word , every division is and must necessarily be , in him who is guilty of it , a schisme , and if a voluntary division , a criminous schisme , whatsoever were the motive or cause of it , by division or schisme understanding ( as i declare my selfe to doe ) a spontaneous receding , or dividing from the unity of the church , not being cut off or driven from it . num. 6 lastly , what he addes as a consectary of his proof , that [ he doth not understand how a division can be shewed unreasonable and causelesse , without examining the occasions and motives ] he may now , if he please , without much difficulty comprehend , viz. by considering , that no cause or reason , how weighty soever , is sufficient to justifie a division . for as long as this is either proved or granted , the conclusion will be indubitable , without examining of the motives , that the division is unreasonable and causelesse . let it once be granted or proved by the known lawes of a nation , that every act of sedition is a transgression of law , criminous and punishable , whatsoever the motive be that incited it , and then there will need no more than conviction of the fact , to conclude that fact unreasonable . that which is in it selfe so culpable and inexcusable , that no reason whatsoever can be able to justifie it , is ready for the sentence of condemnation , without farther processe ; when 't is reasonably resolved , that no reason can excuse such a fact , what reason can there be to lose time in examining reasons ? this is the very case in hand , as 't is apparent to any that will but view the place , and 't is not much for my incouragement in this taske , that the gentleman , to whom i must reply , was willing to think this so deep a riddle , so much above common understandings . num. 7 i shall here only adde , that what was thus said , was not in reason to provoke the romanist , being a concession that cut me off from many visible advantages , and so deserved his reward , much better than rebuke , and being thus early and unexpectedly fallen under his short displeasure , by my indeavour to oblige him , i have yet a shield , which promiseth me security from the continuance of it , i meane not the evidence of the truth affirmed by me , ( for that is not an amulet alwaies to be depended on , when it is against interest to acknowledge it ) but the suffrage of his owne great champion master knot , who hath directly affirm'd what i affirmed ( and therefore i may be allowed not to understand , how this should be so unintelligible ) citing it out of saint augustine , that there is no just necessity to divide unity , and that it is not possible that any man have just cause to separate — infideli unmasked , cap. 7. num . 5. and so it is as manifest that this part of the first chapter is common to both , as the former of which he affirmes it , the conclusion in all reason being involved in the same condition which belonged to the praemises , and it was onely my ill luck , or his willingnesse to finde fault , that it was not formerly apprehended to be so . chap. ii. concerning heresie , excommunication , infallibility . sect. i. of passing slightly over the difference betwixt heresie and schisme . nū . 1 the exceptions to the second chapter are three ; the first concerning heresie , the second concerning excommunication , the third concerning master knots concession , which ushers in a discourse of infallibility . num. 2 the former in these words , he slightly passeth over the distinction of heresie and schism , as if he would not have it understood , that all heresie is schisme , though some schisme be no heresie . num. 3 what is here called the slight passing over the distinction of heresie and schisme , is one piece of injustice in him , and the cause to which it is affixt , my unwillingnesse that it should be understood that all heresie is schisme , will soon appear to be another . num. 4 for the first , it is evident that in that sect. 3. of chap. 2. i do not at all consider the distinction of heresie , and schisme , nor could , without absolute interruption and disturbance of the discourse in hand , & direct transgression of all rules of method , say any thing to that subject , in that place . the thing that i there manifest is the difference betwixt excommunication and schisme ( and sure that is not heresie and schisme , unlesse excommunication be heresie , and so the punishment of the sin be the sin it selfe ) between the passive and the active , or reciprocal division or separation , and all that i say in that section , which can relate to heresie , is , that where the offence , for which a man is excommunicated , is heresie and not schisme , there it is evident , that his excommunication , which still is his punishment and not his sinne ( the cause of it also being not schisme , but somewhat else , heresie , or the like ) cannot be the guilt of schisme in him that is so punished . num. 5 now it is evident , that i cannot be said to passe over that slightly , which i doe not speak to at all , and to which i had no occasion to speake , and consequently that i was no way lyable to this exception . num. 6 and that being said , the second part of the same exception , that of the ground on which i doe this , must needs be as causlesse as the former . for 1. 't is certaine , that my thoughts , or wishes , or designes , are not things which can duely fall under this objecters cognizance ( he cannot upon any sure grounds , divine or affirme , what i aimed at in such or such a slight passage ) and 2. 't is yet more certaine , that no collection can justly be made from my doing that slightly , which i did not meddle with at all . but then 3. to remove all scruple or possible occasion of jealousie in this matter , 't is the designe of chapter 8. ( the method then leading to it ) under a second sort of schisme , to consider the departure from the vnity of the faith , which being but a periphrasis of heresie , is consequently the defining all heresie is schisme , and so the profest avowing of that , which he suspected me unwilling to have understood . and so still there is not the least appearance of justice in this suggestion . sect. ii. excommunication how it differs from schisme . wilfull continuance under censures is schisme . the bishop of rome is not our lawfull governour . the severe conditions of their communion . num. 1 his second exception is perfectly of the same making with the former , thus , num. 2 againe , saith he , treating of excommunication , he easily slideth over this part , that wilfull continuance in a just excommunication maketh schisme . num. 3 here againe 't is evident , that i treat not of excommunication , nor have any occasion fitly to treat of it , farther than to shew , that schisme , being a voluntary separation , the word in no propriety pertaines to that act of the governour of the church , whereby he separates or cuts off any by way of censures . certainly he that is put to death by sentence of law , cannot be judged a felo de se , one that hath voluntarily put himselfe out of the number of the living , or be liable to those forfeitures which by the law belong to such . he that is banished out of the kingdome cannot be guilty of the breach of that statute , which forbids all subjects going out of it , nor be punisht justly for that which is his suffering , not his deed ; his punishment , not his delinquency . num. 4 as for his wilfull continuance under just censures , the wilfulnesse of that , certainly makes him culpable , and the continuance in excommunication , being also continuance in separation from the church , which is schisme , whensoever it is voluntary , i make no doubt of the consequence , that such wilfull continuance in excommunication , be it just or unjust , is actuall schism , supposing ( as the word wilfull must suppose ) that this continuance is wholly imputable to the will of the excommunicate , i. e. that if he will submit to that which is lawfull for him to submit to , he may be absolved and freed from it . num. 5 if this were it , that he would have had more explicitely affirmed , then i answer , that as there i had no occasion to speak to it , so now upon his slightest demand i make no scruple to give him my full sense of it , that he , which being cast into prison for just cause , may upon his petition , and promise of reformation be released , or if the cause were unjust , may yet without doing any thing any way unlawfull , regaine his liberty , from thenceforth becomes not the magistrates , but his owne prisoner , and is guilty of all the damage , be it disease , famishing , death it selfe , which is consequent to his imprisonment . and the analogie holds directly in excommunication ; he that continues under the censures of his ecclesiastical ruler , when he might fairely obtaine absolution from them , is by himselfe sentenced to the continuance of this punishment , as by the governor of the church , to the beginning of it . but then all this while this is not the condition of our church , in respect of the church of rome , they being not our lawful superiors , indued with jurisdiction over us , and for other communion , such as alone can be maintained or broken among fellow-brethren , or christians , it is carefully maintained by us , as farre as it is lawfully maintainable . num. 6 and both these being there evidenced in that , and the insuing chapters , i did not warily or purposely abstaine from ( because i had nothing that suggested to me any opportunity of ) saying any thing more to this purpose . the severe conditions which are by the romanists required of us to render us capable of their communion , subscription of error , or profession against conscience , make it impertinent to propose or discusse either of these two questions , 1. whether we lye under a just excommunication , 2. whether , if we did , we would wilfully continue under it , or consequently , whether we be now guilty of schisme in this notion ? sect. iii. mr. knots concession and conclusion . the power of a fallible church to require beliefe . of antiquity , possession , perswasion of infallibility , motives for vnion . vncertainty of the protestants reasons . the grand heresie and schisme of not believing rome infallible . beliefe sufficient without infallibility . fictions of cases . num. 1 the third exception inlargeth to some length , in these words , num. 2 what he calls master knots concession , i take to be the publike profession of the roman or catholike church , and that nature it selfe teacheth all rationall men , that any congregation that can lye , and knoweth not whether it doth lye or no , in any proposition , cannot have power to binde any particular to believe what shee saith , neither can any man of understanding have an obligation to believe what shee teacheth , farther than agrees with the rules of his own reason : out of which it followeth , that the roman churches binding of men to a profession of faith ( which the protestants and other haereticall multitudes have likewise usurped ) if shee be infallible , is evidently gentle , charitable , right , and necessary , as contrariwise in any other church or congregation , which pretends not to infallibility , the same is unjust , tyrannical and a selfe-condemnation to the binders : so that the state of the question will be this , whether the catholick or roman church be infallible or no , for shee pretendeth not to binde any man to tenets or beliefs upon any other ground or title ▪ by this you may perceive much of his discourse — to be not onely superfluous and unnecessary , but also contrary to himselfe , for he laboureth to perswade that the protestant may be certaine of some truth , against which the roman catholick church bindeth to profession of error , which is as much as to say , as he who pretendeth to have no infallible rule by which to governe his doctrine , shall be supposed to be infallible , and he that pretendeth to have an infallible rule , shall be supposed to be fallible ; at most because fallible objections are brought against him : now then consider what a meek and humble son of the church ought to doe , when of the one side is the authority of antiquity and possession ( such antiquity and possession without dispute or contradictions from the adversary , as no king can shew for his crowne , and much lesse any other person or persons for any other thing ) the perswasion of infallibility , all the pledges that christ hath left to his church for motives of vnion : on the other side , uncertaine reasons of a few men pretending to learning , every day contradicted by incomparable numbers of men wise and learned , and those few men confessing those reason and themselves uncertaine , fallible , and subject to error , certainly without a bias of interest or prejudice , it is impossible for him to leave the church if he be in it , or not returne if he be out of it : for if infallibility be the ground of the churches power to command beliefe , as shee pretends no other , no time , no separation within memory of history , can justifie a continuance out of the church : you may please to consider then how solid this doctors discourse is , who telleth us , for his great evidence , that we , ( saith he ) who doe not acknowledge the church of rome to be infallible , may be allowed to make certaine suppositions ( that follow there ) the question is , whether a protestant be a schismatick because a protestant ? and he will prove he is not a schismatick , because he goeth consequently to protestant , that is schismatical grounds : i pray you reflect , that not to acknowledge the church to be infallible is that for which we charge the doctor with schisme and heresie in capite , and more than for all the rest he holds distinct from us , for this principle taketh away all beliefe , and all ground of beliefe , and turneth it into uncertainty and weather-cock opinion , putteth us into the condition to be circumferri omni vento doctrinae , submitteth us to atheisme and all sort of miscreancy , let him not then over-leap the question , but either prove this is not sufficient to make him a schismatick and an heretick too , or let him acknowledge he is both . num. 3 this discourse thus inlarged to the consideration of fallibility and infallibility in a church , is certainly a digression in this place , and taking the occasion from some words of mine , sect. 6. of a concession of master knots , it is a little necessary to recount , what concession that was , and the use that i there made of it , that so it may appeare , whether there were any thing blameable in my procedure . num. 4 the subject i was upon , sect. 5. was the undoubted lawfulnesse of being and continuing excluded from any such church , the conditions of whose communion containe sin in them . to this head of discourse i mentioned a concession of master knots , that it is perfectly unlawful to dissemble , aequivocate , or lye in matters of faith , and this as a confirmation of my then present assertion , that when i am not permitted by the romanists to have external communion with them , unlesse i doe thus dissemble , equivocate and lye , affirme my selfe to believe what i doe not believe , i may lawfully continue thus excluded from their communion . but then i could not justly conceale what master knot there added as his conclusion from hence ( together with the acknowledged unlawfulnesse of forsaking the externall communion of gods visible church ) that therefore the church of rome is infallible , because otherwise men might forsake her communion . num. 5 here indeed i thought it very strange , that this conclusion should be thus deduced from such praemisses , that it should be deemed lawful to separate from a church for every error , or for no more but being subject to error , being fallible , though it were actually guilty of no errour , which i conceived to be the same in effect , as to affirme it lawfull , to forsake the communion of all but saints , and angels , and god in heaven , because all others were peccable and fallible . but yet i thought not fit to goe farther out of my way to presse the unreasonablenesse of it , but contented my selfe with that , which was for my present turne , his confession that it was lawful to separate or continue in separation from the church of christ , in case we could not without lying , &c. be permitted to communicate with it . num. 6 this being the whole businesse , as it lyes visible to any in that 5. and 6. sect. let us now see what a confusion is made to gaine some small advantage from hence , or excuse for a long digression . num. 7 first it is the conclusion , viz. [ that any congregation that can lye , &c. cannot have power to binde any to believe what shee saith ] which he saith is called by me master knots concession . but this is a great mistake , i never lookt on this as his concession , never called it by that title , but as a conclusion that he made a strange shift to deduce from another concession . num. 8 a concession , this gentleman should in reason have understood to be somewhat which the adversary yeilds , and which the disputer gaines advantage by his yeilding it , such was his assertion , that all lying and dissembling was unlawful , and that rather than that should be admitted , it were lawful to forsake the external communion of the church of christ . and that , and nothing but that , was by me cited as his concession . num. 9 secondly , that conclusion it self , that the congregation that is fallible cannot have power to binde to believe , — is not so much as considered by me in that place or else where ; i said not one word against it , which might provoke this objector to take it up , and confirme it , neither was it in the least needfull , or pertinent to the matter then in hand , to enter into the consideration of it . all that was by me taken notice of ( and that but in passing ) was the consequence or coherence betwixt the praemisses and that conclusion , which naturally inferred a third thing , that it was in mr. knots opinion , lawful to forsake the communion of any fallible church , which i thought by the way , would be sure to excuse us ( though we should be granted to have forsaken and continued wilfully in separation from the roman church ) if it might but appeare , that either that were guilty of any one error , or lyable to fal into any one . and this being intirely all that was there said by me , there is no reason i should so far attend this gentleman in his digression , as to consider what here he proceeds to say , upon his new-sprung subject of discourse , very distant from that of schisme , to which i indeavoured to adhere , having elsewhere pursued at large , the romanists other hypothesis concerning their churches infallibility . num. 10 were it not thus remote from our matter in hand , and perfectly unnecessary to the defence of our church from schisme , i might discover farther many infirme parts in this procedure . i shall but briefly touch on some of them . num. 11 1. for the truth of that proposition [ that a congregation that can lye , i. e. a church that is fallible , and knoweth not ( i. e. hath no infallible certainty ) whether it lye or no in any proposition , cannot have power to binde any to believe what shesaith ] i may certainly affirme , 1. that this is no infallible truth , being no where affirmed by any infallible speaker , or deduced from any infallible principle . for as to the scripture , it is not pretended to be affirmed by that , and for natural reason , that cannot be an infallible judge in this matter of defining what power may be , or is by god given to a church , without defining it infallible . a prince may no doubt be impowered by god to give lawes , and those lawes oblige subjects to obedience , and yet that prince never be imagined infallible in making lawes . and natural reason cannot conclude it impossible , that a church should have a proportionable power given it by god to binde belief , &c. num. 12 as for the catholick or roman church , 1. that is a misprision , the catholick is not the single roman church , nor the roman the catholick . 2. there no where appears any such definition , either of the catholick , i. e. vniversall church of god , or particularly of the roman church , no act of councell representative of that church , no known affirmation of that diffused body under the bishop of rome's pastorage , that all authority to oblige belief is founded in infallibility . 3. if any such definition did appear , it could no way be foundation of belief to us , who doe not believe that church , or any definition thereof , as such , to be infallible . num. 13 2. if we shall but distinguish and limit the termes , 1. what is meant by [ can lie ] 2. by knowing or not knowing whether it lie or no , 3. by power to binde , 4 by belief ( as every of these have a latitude of signification , and may be easily mistaken , till they are duly limited ) it will then soon appear that there is no unlimited truth in that which he saith is the whole churches affirmation , nor prejudice to our pretensions from that limited truth , which shall be found in it . num. 14 1. the phrase [ can lie ] may denote no more than such a possibility of erring , as yet is joyned neither with actuall error , nor with any principle , whether of deficiency on one side , nor of malignity on the other , which shall be sure to betray it into error . thus that particular church , that is at the present in the right , in all matters of faith , and hath before it the scripture to guide it in all its decisions , together with the traditions and doctrines of the antient and primitive church , and having skill in all those knowledges , which are usefull to fetch out the true meaning of scripture , and ability to inquire into the antient path , and to compare her self with all other considerable parts of the vniversall church , and then is diligent and faithfull to make use of all these succours , and in uprightness of heart seeks the truth , and applies it self to god in humble , and ardent , and continuall prayer for his guidance to lead into all truth , this church , i say , is yet fallible , may affirm and teach false , i. e. this is naturally possible that it may , but it is not strongly probable that it will , as long as it is thus assisted , and disposed to make use of these assistances , and means of true defining . num. 15 2. that churches knowledge , whether it define truly or no in any proposition , may signifie no more than a full perswasion or belief ( cui non subest dubium , wherein they neither doubt nor apprehend reason of doubting ) that what they define is the very truth , though for knowledge properly so called , or assurance , cui non potest subesse falsum , which is unerrable or infallible in strictness of speech , it may not have attained , or pretend to have attained to it . num. 16 3. by power to binde may be meant no more than authority derived to them from the apostles of christ to make decisions , when difficulties arise , to prescribe rules for ceremonies or government , such as shall oblige inferiors to due observance and obedience , by force of the apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his precept to obey the rulers set over us in the church , which we may doe without thinking them simply , or by any promise of god , inerrable or infallible , as the obedience which is due to civil magistrates , which supposes in them a power of binding subjects to obey , doth yet no way suppose or imply them uncapable of erring and sinning , and giving unreasonable commands , and such as wherein it is unlawfull to yeild obedience to them . num. 17 beside this , there may farther be meant by it a generall obligation that lies on all men , to believe what is with due grounds of conviction proposed to them , such as the disbelieving or doubting of it shall be in them inseparable from obstinacy ; and this obligation is again the greater , when that which is thus convincingly proposed , is proposed by our superiors , from whose mouth it is regular to seek and receive gods will. num. 18 lastly , believing may signifie not an implicite , irrational , blinde , but a well-grounded , rationall , explicite belief of that which , as the truth of god , is duely proposed to us ; or again , where there is not that degree of manifestation , yet a consent to that which is proposed as most probable , on the grounds afforded to judge by , or when the person is not competent to search grounds , a bare yeilding to the judgment of superiours , and deeming it better to adhere to them , than to attribute any thing to their own judgment , a believing so farre as not to disbelieve . and this again may rationally be yeilded to a church , or the rulers and governors of it , without deeming them inerrable or infallible . num. 19 nay , where the proposition defined is such , that every member of that church cannot without violence to his understanding yeild any such degree of belief unto it , yet he that believes it not , may behave himself peaceably and reverently , either duely representing his grounds , why he cannot consent to it , or if his subscription or consent be neither formally nor interpretatively required of him , quietly enjoy his contrary opinion . and this may tend as much to the peace and unity of a church , as the perswasion of the inerrability thereof can be supposed to doe . num. 20 by this view of the latitude of these terms , and the limitations they are capable of , it is now not so difficult to discern , in what sense the proposition under consideration is false , and in what sense it is true , and by us acknowledged to be so . num. 21 a congregation that is fallible , and hath no knowledge or assurance ( cui non potest subesse falsum ) that it is not deceived in any particular proposition , may yet have authority to make decisions , &c. and to require inferiors so farre to acquiesce to their determinations , as not to disquiet the peace of that church with their contrary opinions . num. 22 but for any absolute infallible belief or consent , that no church , which is not it self absolutely infallible , and which doth not infallibly know that it is infallible , hath power to require of any . num. 23 by this it appears in the next place , in what sense it is true , which in the following words is suggested of protestants , that they binde men to a profession of faith , and how injustly it is added , that , supposing them not to be infallibe , it is unjust , tyrannical , and self-condemnation to the binders . the contrary whereto is most evident , understanding the obligation with that temper , and the infallibity in that notion , wherein it is evident we understand it . for what injustice or tyranny &c. can it be in any lawful superior , having defined what verily he believes to be the truth of god , and no way doubts of his having deduced it rightly from the scripture , but yet knows that he , as a man , is fallible , and that it is possible he may have some way failed in this , as in any other his most circumspect action , what injustice , i say , can it be , authoritatively to direct this definition to those , who are committed to his charge , and expect their due submission to it ? meaning by submission , what i have here exprest to mean by it . num. 24 so again it appears of the roman church , how far it is from gentle or charitable in them to bind men to profess , as matter of faith , whatsoever is by that church defined , upon this one account , that the church is infallible & can't erre ; when this very thing , that it is infallible , is not at all made probable , much lesse infallibly deduced from any reason or testimony that is infallible . num. 25 next then , when he saith , that the state of the question will be this , whether the roman church be infallible or no , i am not sure i know what question he means , whether the main question on which the tract of schisme was written , i. e. whether the church of england be schismaticall or no , or whether the particular question , which this gentlemans haste hath framed to himself in this place , whether a fallible church may have power to binde any to believe what she saith ? but i suppose by some indications , that the latter is it , and then , as from hence i learn what he means by infallible , a church that cannot possibly erre , all whose definitions are such , quibus nequit subesse falsum , so untill this be proved of that church , i must be allowed to speak like one who think not my self obliged to the belief of it , and being sure of this , that a protestant is or may be verily perswaded of some truth , against which the roman church bindeth to profession of error ( meaning by verily perswaded , such a certainty only , cui non subest dubium , he hath no doubt nor reason to induce doubting of it ) i cannot imagine how that part of my discourse , wherein i have supposed or asserted this , can be either superfluous , unnecessary , or ( whatever other weakness it be guilty of ) contrary to my self . for certainly i that think i am fallible , may yet verily believe , without all doubt , the truth of many propositions , which if i should affirm my self not to believe , i must doubtlesse lie , and then sin , by mr. knot 's former concession . and 't is as certain on the other side , that he that pretendeth to have an infallible rule , may yet foully mistake , both in that generall , originall , and in many other particular , derivative pretensions ; his supposed infallibility , if it be not rightly supposed ( and till it be proved , it will not be so ) will be so farre from an amulet to keep him safe from all error , that it is the likeliest way to deliver him up to it , as the premature perswasion of his particular election may be the ingulsing any , through security and presumption , in the most certain ruine . num. 26 in the processe of this discourse he is pleased to mention four advantages of the roman church above any other , antiquity , possession , perswasion of infallibility , the pledges that christ hath left to his church for motives of union , and nothing but uncertain reasons on the other side , which saith he , must make it impossible for any without interest or prejudice to leave the church , if he be in it , or not return , if he be out of it . num. 27 to this imaginary setting of the scales between them and us , and particularly to the fourth advantage pretended to , the pledges that christ left for motives of union , it is sufficient to reply in generall , that for us , which have not voluntarily separated , but are by them violently removed from communion with them , and cannot be admitted to reunion , but upon conditions , which without dissembling and lying we cannot undergoe , it is in vain to speak of motives or obligations to return to their communion . we that are bound , as much as in us lies , to have peace with all men , must not admit any known or wilfull sin in order to that most desirable end . and this one thing as alone it is pertinent to the matter in hand , that of schisme , so it is necessarily the concluding of this controversie , we that are not permitted to return , and so we are , if the conditions of our return be so incumbred , as to include sin , cannot with any justice or equity be charged for not returning . num. 28 against this here is nothing said , any farther than the bare mention of the three other advantages on their side . and none of these are of any force to perswade our return , upon such conditions as these , much lesse to exact it as duty from us . num. 29 by antiquity and possession , as here they are spoken of , i am apt to suppose he means not antiquity of the roman church , or the present doctrines ( and therefore i shall not speak of them ) but the antiquity of our communion with them ( if he mean a possession in the belief of the popes vniversall pastorship , i shall have occasion to speak of that * hereafter . ) and if this be granted , as for fraternall communion , and such as is due from one sister church to another , it is willingly granted , then this will divolve the blame on those who are guilty of this breach , who have cast us out , and permit us no way of returning with a good conscience , and so this is little for the romanists advantage . num. 30 but if in stead of fraternall communion , it be subjection to the roman see , that is by his words claimed , and pretended to by possession , then as we willingly grant to that see all that the antient canons allowed to it , and so cannot in that respect offend against antiquity , so what , contrary to those canons , they have at any time assumed , and unlawfully possest themselves of , can no way be pretended to be their right , or they to be bonae fidei possessores , true or fair possessors of it , which qualification and condition is yet absolutely necessary to found their plea from possession , and which alone can bear any proportion with that , which kings can shew for their crowns , or proprietaries for their inheritances . num. 31 of this head of possession , or prescription , it were easie to adde much more , by considering that claim and title , by the known rules whether of the canon , or civil law. the civil law , which is generally more favourable to prescription , doth yet acknowledge many waies of interrupting it , as by calling it into question , and that is sufficiently done in some cases , per solam conventionem , by citing , or summoning the possessor , and when contestatio litis , the entring a suit is actually required , yet still he that appears to have caused the impediment , and kept it from coming to this contestation , is not to gain any advantage by his guilt , but adversus eum lis habetur pro contestato , he shall be lookt on , as if the suit had been actually contested against him . see bartolus in l. si eum § . qui injuriarum in fi : ff . si quis caut : num. 32 but as to the canon law , which in all reason the catholick is to own in this question , it is known that it admitteth not any the longest prescription , without the bonae fidei possessio , ( he that came by any thing dishonestly , is for ever obliged to restitution ) and for the judging of that , allows of many waies of probation , from the nature of the thing ( the course we have taken in this present debate ) and from other probable indications , and where the appearances are equal on both sides , the law , though it be wont to judge most favourably , doth yet incline to question the honesty of coming to the possession , and to presume the dishonesty , upon this account , because mala fides , dishonesty is presumed industriously to contrive its own secrecie , and to lie hid in those recesses , from which at a distance of time it is not easily fetcht out . so felinus in c. ult : de praescript : per leg : ult : c. unde vi . and in a word , it is the affirmation of the doctors , presumi malam fidem ex antiquiore adversarii possessione , the presumption is strong that the possession was not honestly come by , when it appears to have been antiently in the other hands , and the way of conveyance from one to the other is not discernible . see panormit : and felinus in c. si diligenti x de prescript : menochius arbit : quaest : casu 225. n. 4. and others referred to by the learned groti●● in consil : jurid : super iis quae nassavii — p. 36. &c. but i have no need of these nicer disquisitions . num. 33 as for the perswasion of infallibility , meaning , as they must , their own perswasion of it , that can have no influence upon us , who are sure that we are not so perswaded , unless the grounds , on which their perswasion is founded , be so convincingly represented to us , that it must be our prejudice , or other vitious defect , or affection in us , that we are not in the like manner perswaded of it . but on this we are known to insist , and never yet have had any such grounds offered to us : as may in some measure appear by the view of that controversie as it lies visible in the book , intituled , the view of infallibility . num. 34 as for the uncertainty of the reasons on the protestants side , by uncertainty , meaning fallibility , and the potest subesse falsum , whilest yet we are , without doubting , verily perswaded that our reasons have force in them ; that cannot make it possible for us to believe what we doe not believe , or lawfull upon any the fairest intuition to professe contrary to our belief . i believe that henry viii . was king of this nation , and the reasons on which i believe it , are , the testimonies of meer men , and so fallible ; yet the bare fallibility of those testimonies cannot infuse into me any doubt of the truth of them , hath no force to shake that but humane belief , and while i thus believe , i am sure it were wilfull sin in me , though for the greatest and most pretious acquisitions in my view , to professe i doe not believe it . the like must be said of any other perswasion of mine , denied by the romanists , and the denying whereof is part of the condition required of me to make me capable of communion with them . num. 35 but it is not now time to insist on this , both because here is nothing produced against it , and because here follows a much higher undertaking , which swallows up all these inferior differences between us , viz : that not to acknowledge the church ( that must be the roman church ) to be infallible , is the great crime of schime and heresie in capite , and more than all that i hold distinct from the romanists . num. 36 this i acknowledge was not foreseen in the tract of schisme , and may serve for the una litura , the one answer to remove all that is there said . for if our grand fundamental schisme and heresie be all summed up in this one comprehensive guilt , our not acknowledging the church of rome to be infallible , then it was and still is impertinent to discourse on any other subject but that one of infallibility , for if that be gained by them to belong to their church , i am sure we are concluded schismaticks , and till it be gained , i am sure there is no reason to suppose it . num. 37 but then as this is a compendious way of answering the tract of schism , and i wonder , after he had said this , he could think it seasonable to proceed to make exceptions to any other particulars , this one great mistake of the question being discovered , made all other more minute considerations unnecessary ( as he that hath sprung a mine to blow up the whole fort , need not set wispes of straw to severall corners to burn it ) so it falls out a little unluckily , that this doth not supersede , but onely remove this gentleman's labour , it being now as necessary that he should defend his hypothesis of the church of romes infallibility , against all that is formerly said by me on that subject , as now it was to make this answer to the book of schism , and till that be done , or attempted to be done , there is nothing left for me to reply to in this matter . num. 38 for as to his bare affirmations , that the not acknowledging their infallibility takes away all belief and ground of belief , turns all into uncertainty , &c. nay , submitteth to atheisme and all sorts of miscreancy . ] it is sure but a mistake or misunderstanding as of some other things , so particularly of the nature of belief ; for beside that i may have other grounds of belief than the affirmations of the roman church , the authority of scripture for the severalls contained in it , and the testimony of the universal primitive ( that sure is more than of the present roman ) church , to assure me that what we take for scripture is scripture , and to derive apostolical traditions to me , and so i may believe enough without ever knowing that the roman church defines any thing de fide , but much more without acknowledging the truth of all she defines , and yet much more without acknowledging her inerrable and infallible : beside this , i say , it is evident that belief is no more than consent to the truth of any thing , and the grounds of belief , such arguments as are sufficient to exclude doubting , to induce conviction and perswasion , and where that is actually induced , there is belief , though there be no pretense of infallibility in the argument , nor opinion of it in him that is perswaded by it . num. 39 that all that god hath said is true , i believe by a belief or perswasion , cui non potest subesse falsum , wherein i cannot be deceived , and there i acknowledge infallibility upon this ground , whether of nature or of grace , of common dictate , or of religion , that it is impossible for god to lie , to deceive , or to be deceived ; but that the whole canon of scripture , as it is delivered to us by the laodicean councel , is the word of god , though i fully believe this also , and have not the least doubt to any part of it , yet i account not my self infallible in this belief , nor can any church that affirms the same , unlesse they are otherwise priviledged by god , be infallible in affirming it , nor any that believes that church be infallible in their belief ; and as that priviledge is not yet proved by any donation of gods to belong to any church , particularly to the roman , so till it be proved , and proved infallibly , it can be no competent medium to induce any new act of infallible belief , the want of which may denominate us either hereticks or schismaticks . num. 40 in the mean time , this is certain , that i that doe not pretend to believe any thing infallibly in this matter , not so much as that the church is not infallible , must yet be acknowledged to believe her fallible , or else i could not by this gentleman be adjudged a scismatick for so believing : and then this supposeth that i may believe what in his opinion i believe untruly , that sure is , that i may believe what i doe not believe infallibly . the matter is visible , i cannot think fit to inlarge on it . num. 41 one thing onely i must farther take notice of , the ground which he here had , on which he founds his exception against the solidity of my discourse , calling it my great evidence , that we that doe not acknowledge the church of rome to be infallible , may be allowed to make certain suppositions that follow there . num. 42 the matter in that place chap. ii. sect. 12. lies thus . in examining the nature of schisme , i have occasion to mention one ( not reall , but ) fiction of case ; suppose first that our ancestors had criminously separated from the church of rome , and suppose secondly , that we their posterity repented , and desired to reform their sin , and to be reunited to them ; yet supposing thirdly , that they should require to our reunion any condition which were unlawfull for us to perform , in this conjuncture , i say , we could not justly be charged for continuing that separation . num. 43 this fiction of case i could not think had any weak part in it , for as it supposed that on one side , which i knew a romanist would not grant , viz : that they should require any condition unlawfull for us to perform , so it supposed on the other side , that which we can no way grant , viz : that our ancestors criminously separated ; but this i knew was ordinary to be done in fictions of cases ; suppositio non ponit , is the acknowledged rule , my supposing either of these was not the taking them for granted , and yet after all this , i foresaw that objection , that the romanist , who acknowledges not any such hard condition required to our reconciliation , will conceive this an impossible case ; and to this i answered , that we , that acknowledge not their church to be infallible may be allowed to make a supposition ( meaning as before a fiction of case ) which is founded in the possibility of her inserting some error in her confessions , and making the acknowledgment of it the indispensable condition of her communion . what i have offended herein , i cannot imagine , for 1. i onely set a fiction of case , doe not take their infallibility for a thing confestly false , nor in that place so much as dispute against it , only i say that which was sufficiently known before i said it , that their infallibity is not acknowledged by us , and so that her inserting some error in her confessions , is to us , i. e. in our opinion a thing possible , and so for disputation sake supposable , in the same manner as i suppose that which i am known not to believe , and if this gentleman be thus severe , i shall despair to approve my discourses to him . num. 44 secondly , that i make it my great evidence , is not with any appearance of reason suggested by him , it comes in meerly as an incidentall , last branch , the least necessary , most unconsiderable of any , and that which might have been spared then , or left out now , without any weakning of , or disturbing the discourse . num. 45 thirdly , whereas he adds , that i proceed to make certain suppositions that follow there , this is still of the same strein , i make but one supposition , viz : in case she make any unlawfull act the indispensable condition of her communion , and that one certainly is not in the plurall , more , or indefinitely , certain suppositions . num. 46 that i put this one case as possible , and then proceeded to consider , what were by the principles acknowledged by all , particularly by mr. knot , to be done in that one case , was agreeable to the strictest laws of discourse which i have met with . and if in compliance with this gentleman , i must deny my self such liberties , and yet yeild him so much greater , on the other side , if i must at the beginning of a defense of the church of england , be required to grant the church of rome infallible , i. e. to yeild not onely that she speaks all truth , but also that it is impossible she should speak any thing but truth , whom yet , by entring on this theme , i undertake to contradict , and to prove injurious in censuring us for schismaticks , this were , as i have said , an hard task indeed , the very same as if i were required to begin a duell by presenting and delivering up all weapons into the enemies hand , to plead a cause , and introduce my defense by confessing my self guilty of all that the plaintiffe doth , or can have the confidence to charge upon me . num. 47 and if these be the conditions of a dispute , these will questionlesse be hard , whatsoever the conditions of our reunion be conceived to be , and moreover this gentleman will be as infallible as his church , and then 't is pity he should lavish out medicines , that is so secured by charms , that he should defend his cause by reasons , which hath this one so much cheaper expedient , to answer a whole book in one period . num. 48 and so much for his animadversions on this second chapter , which are no excellent presage of that which we are to expect in the insuing . chap. iii. exceptions to the third chapter answered . sect. i. the division of schisme justified . of schisme against the authority of councells . of vnanimity of belief in the dispersion of the churches . num. 1 the exceptions against the third chap : are reducible to 4 heads . the first about the insufficiency of the division of schisme , in these words , num. 2 in his third chapter , what is chiefly to be noted to our purpose , is , that his division is insufficient , for he maketh schism to be only against monarchicall power , or against fraternall charity , which is very much besides the principles of those protestants , who pretend so much to the authority of councels , me thinks he should have remembred there might be schisme against conciliatory authority , whether this be called so when the councell actually sitteth , or in the unanimity of belief in the dispersion of the churches , so that the doctor ( supposing he concluded against the pope ) hath not concluded himself no schismatick , being separated form the catholick world . and again in the next page , by way of recollection or second thoughts , thus , but i must not forget here what i omitted to insert before , that in his division of schisme he omitteth the principall , if not indeed , and in the use of the word by the antients , the onely schism , which is when one breaketh from the whole church of god : for though a breach made from the immediate superior , or a particular church , may in some sort , and in our ordinary manner of speaking be called a schisme , yet that by wich one breaketh away from the communion of the whole church , is properly , and in a higher sense called schisme , and is that out of which the present question proceedeth , whereas other divisions , as long as both parts remain in communion with the vniversall church , are not properly schismes , but with a diminutive particle , so that in this division he left out that part which appertained to the question . num. 3 my division of schism is that which i could not conceive subject to the exceptions of any rationall man , of what perswasions soever ; schism being a breach of unity and communion ; as many sorts as were conceivable of unity and communion , so many , and no more , i set down of schisme , some as breaches of the subordination which christ setled in his church , others of mutuall charity , which he left among his disciples . num. 4 for is it not evident , that all men in the world are either our superiors , or inferiors , or our equals ? and can i break communion with any , as long as being an inferior , i live regularly under all my superiors , and brotherly with all my equals ? there is certainly no place of doubt in this . when therefore in his second period here set down , he mentions it , as the principall , ( and in the antients use of the word ) the onely schism , when one breaketh from the whole church of god , it is strange he should think that man was not comprised in either member of my division , when certainly he is guilty of both . for how can he separate from the whole church , unlesse he separate both from his superiors and his equals too ? and if he separate from both , then questionlesse he separates from one , and from more than one of them . num. 5 was it possible for any care more sollicitously to have prevented this exception , than that which by me was used , when among the branches of equality , with which every one is obliged to preserve unity and communion , i reckoned up , not only the believers of the same congregation , &c. but the severall communities of christian men from parishes and dioeceses , to climes of the whole christian world , chap. 3. § . 5. and indeed it is a great piece of austerity , that when i have indevoured to prove that we of the church of england have not voluntarily separated ( and that onely is the crime of schism ) from any one particular church , and no one of those proofs is invalidated , nor as yet so much as excepted against , it should yet be thought seasonable to reply , that we have broken off from the whole church of god. num. 6 is not that whole made up of these severals , as a body of limbs , the universal of particulars ? and can the hand be broken off from the whole body , when it is not broken off , but remains in perfect union with every part of the body ? if the arm be broken from the body , the hand , which remains united to the arm , may yet be separate from the whole body , because by being fastned to the arm 't is united but to one , and not to all the members of the body . but an union to all the members of the body supposes a separation from no one part that remains in the body , and sure that must be an union with the whole body , which is nothing else , but all the members together . num. 7 and so as his second thoughts were effects , not remedies of his forgetfulness , the very same , which he had mentioned before under the style of separation from the catholick world , so certainly they were again effects of his inobservance , that his principall sort of schisme , separation from the whole church , was comprehended by me under this style , separation from the severall communities of the whole christian world . num. 8 as to the former branch of his exception , that in my division of schisme , into that which is against monarchical ( i said , and when he recites my words , he should doe so too , paternal ) power , and that which is against fraternall charity , i omit to mention the authority of councels , it is evidently a causlesse suggestion . for 1. if councels , as he saith , have any authority , that will certainly be reducible to paternal power . and if they have none , any farther than by way of counsell and advice , that will directly fall under the head of fraternall charity . num. 9 secondly , if by councels he mean provinciall councels , it is evident that the power which severally belongs to the bishops of each province , is united in that of a provinciall councell , where all the diocesan bishops are assembled , and the despising of that is an offence under the first sort of schisme , a breach of the subordination to the bishop , yea , and the metropolitan too , who presides in the provinciall councell . num. 10 so again , if he mean nationall councells , the power of the bishops of all the provinces there assembled , divolves upon this assembly , compounded of all of them , the despising thereof is the despising of these ecclesiasticall superiours of the whole nation , and culpable , and schismaticall upon that account . num. 11 as for oecumenicall or generall councells , if they be truly such , the power of all the bishops of all the provinces in all christian nations divolves upon that , and so cannot be despised without despising of all ranks of our ecclesiasticall superiors , bishops , metropolitans , primates or patriarchs , and therefore this sort of schisme could not be deemed to be omitted , where all those other branches , of which it is made up , were so particularly handled . num. 12 that any more speciall consideration was not taken of generall councells in that discourse , the account ( beside that which is now given ) is more than intimated in that tract of schism , pag. 60. first because they were remedies of schisme , and extraordinary , not any standing judicatures , to which our constant subordination and subjection was required . 2. because these were such , as without which the church continued for the first 300 years , and so could not belong to a generall discourse , which spake of all the certain and ordinary and constant sorts of schisme , and such as all times were capable of , and inlarged not to those other of accidentall emergencies . 3. because they are now morally impossible to be had , the christian world being under so many empires , and divided into so many communions , that it is not visible to the eye of man how they should be regularly assembled . num. 13 as for those that are already past , and are on due grounds to be acknowledged truly oecumenicall , the communion , which is possible to be had or broken with them , is that of compliance with , or recession from their definitions , and our innocence in that respect is avowed , p. 160. as the congregating of the like ( when possible , and probable toward the end ) is recommended , p. 158. as a supply , when there should be need of extraordinary remedies . num. 14 lastly , if none of this had been done , or if this had not been undertaken so solemnly and formally , as some other supposed branches of schism were , in that tract , yet the account of that is visible to any , because the principal sort of schisme charged by the romanist on the church of england is that of casting out the bishop of rome , not contemning the authority of councels , and therefore i was in reason to apply my discourse most largely and particularly to that head , to which their objections , not my own choice directed me . so evidently contrary to the notoriety of the fact is this complaint of this gentleman , that my division of schism was insufficient , and that i took no notice of this ( as he pleases to call it ) conciliatory authority . num. 15 that to make his suggestion seem more probable , he advisedly chose to change the tearms of my division from that which was against paternal , to that which is against monarchical power , upon this apprehension , that paternal power would visibly include that of the fathers in councel assembled , as well as in several ; but monarchical power could not so fitly bear it , i shall not enter into his secrets to divine . this i am sure of , that the unanimity of belief in the dispersion of the churches , cannot with any propriety ( as by him it is ) be defined a branch of conciliatory authority , for certainly the churches dispersed are not met together , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or dispersion of the jewes differed much from the councel assembled at jerusalem , and the christian church at this day is without question no oecumenical councel . num. 16 and then what authority scattered members can have , which never legally command , or exercise authority , but when they are in conjunction , i shall not here make stay to demonstrate : whatsoever there is of this nature will most properly be comprised under the head of communion or unity fraternal , and the schisme which is a transgression of that , being at large handled also , chap. 8. 9 , 10. there was no insufficiency , in any justice , to be charged on this division . sect. ii. of the extent of the roman province . the bishops of italy distinct from those that belong to rome . the ecclesiastical distributions agreeable with the civil . ruffinus vindicated . num. 1 the second charge on this chapter is about the extent of the roman patriarchie , in these words : num. 2 in this chap : he telleth us many things , some true , some not so , but all either common to us both , or not appertaining to the controversie , untill he concludes , that certainly the roman patriarchie did not extend it self to all italy , and this he does out of a word in ruffinus , which he supposeth to be taken in a speciall propriety of law , whereas indeed that author's knowledge in grammar was not such as should necessarily exact any such belief , especially learned men saying the contrary . num. 3 the place , to which this exception belongs , is not set down by this gentleman , but by annexing the testimony out of ruffinus , i discern it to be that of pag. 52. where speaking of the picenum suburbicarium and annonarium , i say the former belonged to the praefecture of rome ; the latter , with the seven provinces in the broader part of italy , belonged to the diocese ( as it was antiently called ) of italy , of which milan was the metropolis . num. 4 this being the affirmation which he excepteth against , i did not , nor yet doe make any question of vindicating , and defending it against any objection . num. 5 that learned men say the contrary , is here suggested , in the close , but as there is not one learned man named , nor testimony produced ( which therefore amounts no higher than the bare opinion or affirmation of this one gentleman , without any one reason or authority to support it ) so when any such learned mens names and testimonies shall be produced , it will be easie to shew , that there is very little of their learning exprest in so saying . num. 6 on the other side i had ( pag. 50. in the margent ) referred to some testimonies whereon my assertion was founded , viz : those which manifestly distinguisht the province of the bishop of rome from the province of italy , which could not have had truth in them , if the province of the patriarch of rome extended to all italy . num. 7 such was that of * eusebius distinctly mentioning the bishops of the cities of italy , and the bishops that belong to the city of the romans . the testimony out of the edict of the emperor aurelian , in the controversie betwixt paulus samosatenus and domnus , where it is decreed , that the house , about which they contended , should be delivered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to those to whom the bishops through italy and the city of the romans should decree it . num. 8 the like was that of the councel of sardice set down in * athanasius in the title of their epistle to the alexandrians , thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. the holy synod by god's grace assembled at sardice , from rome , and spain , france , italy , &c. num. 9 so in * athanasius's declaration of his own affairs , and the ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) agreement of many bishops with him , he specifies , who and how many they were , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. there were more than four hundred both from great rome , and from all italy , and from calabria , &c. where the bishops of the roman province are distinguisht from the bishops of italy , as those again from the bishops of calabria , &c. num. 10 so among the names prefixt to the * first councel of arles , we have ex provinciâ italiae , civitate mediclanensi , &c. ex urbe româ , quos sylvester episcopus misit ex provinciâ romanâ , civitate portuensi , &c. of the province of italy , from the city of milan &c. from the city of rome those whom bishop sylvester sent , of the province of rome , from the city of porta &c. such and such were assembled at that councel , where again the matter is clear as to the distinction of those provinces of rome and italy , the former under the presidency of the bishop of rome , the later of the bishop of milan . num. 11 by this it might have appeared to this gentleman ( if as he pleased to mention the much greek , in his preface , so he had been at leisure to consider the importance of it ) that beside the testimony ( which he will call a word ) of ruffinus , i had made use of other waies of proof , that the presidency of the bishop of rome ( i suppose that he must mean by the roman patriarchie ) did not extend it self to all italy . num. 12 again after the testimony of ruffinus , i mentioned another evidence , from the proportioning ecclesiastical jurisdictions to the temporal of the lieutenants ; this may appear in thesi , by the words of * origen , of which i shall now , because i did not there , take notice , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is fit that the prefect of the church of each city , should correspond to the governour of those which are in the city . and that so it was , appears by the second canon of the councel of constantinople , where the jurisdictions of the bishops are still proportioned to the condition of the cities where they were , the bishop of alexandria to have power over all aegypt , the metropolis whereof was alexandria , and so in the rest . and this is in the tract of schism largely deduced and cleared also , p. 54 , 55 , &c. and need not be here again repeated , and so here was more again than the word of ruffinus , for what i said . num. 13 lastly , that for which ruffinus was cited , being but this , that the bishop of rome was authorized by the nicene canon to take care of the suburbicarian regions , i could not sure be mistaken in thinking , that he took the word suburbicarian in such a propriety ( i say not of law , but ) of common language , as will conclude the picenum suburbicarium to belong to the roman prefecture , as the annonarium did to the diocese of italy . num. 14 and certainly ruffinus , that lived so neer after the councel of nice , and that in italy , a presbyter of aquileia , knew how that was distributed in his time , better than this gentleman at this distance can pretend to doe , may also be allowed to know so much of grammar , as to expresse his own sense ( in a paraphrase ) of that nicene canon . num. 15 in a matter so clear i shall adde no more , but the words of a most excellent person , jac : leschasserius in his consultatio ad claris : venet : ruffino bellum indicunt scriptores romani hujus temporis , &c. the romanists of this time are displeased with ruffinus , not knowing what churches they were , which the nicene canon understands to be under the first and ordinary power of the pope . whereas ruffinus understood it of the churches of the suburbicarian provinces and regions , which are four , the first the roman , with the bounds of the prefecture of the city , and three other with which that is incompast , all campania , picenum suburbicarium , and tuscia suburbicaria , of which there is frequent mention in the notitiae of the roman empire . and of this the same authour hath written a learned tract , and so here is a distinct testimony of a very learned man , and this is a sufficient answer to his bare indefinite affirmation that learned men say the contrary . sect. iii. the identity of the office of primates and patriarchs , the authorities of gratian , and anacletus , and anicetus . num. 1 the third charge wherein this third chapter is concerned , remains about the identity of the office of primates , and p●triarchs , in these words : num. 2 then he telleth you that the office of primates and patriarchs was the same , onely authorising that affirmation from an epistle of anacletus , the which , as soon as occasion serveth , he will tell you is of no authority , but fictitious . num. 3 what i said of primates and patriarchs , that though the patriarchs had the precedence , in councels , the deference in respect of place , yet the power and jurisdiction of primates was as great as of patriarchs , and the office the same , i thought had sufficiently been evidenced to the romanist p. 58. for as one manifest indication of it was there mentioned , viz : that in authors the very titles are confounded , witness justinian who commonly gives primates the name of patriarchs of the dioceses , so the reference to those two authorities so acknowledged and owned by the romanists , the epistle of anacletus , and the decree of gratian , seemed to me to put it out of all question . num. 4 for in the body of their canon law corrected and set out by pope gregory xiii . as gratian's decree makes up the first and principall part ▪ so in that , par : 1. distinct : 99. we have these words , de primatibus autem quaeritur quem gradum in ecclesiâ tenuerint , an in aliquo à patriarchis differant , the question is made concerning primates , what degree they have in the church , and whether in any thing they differ from patriarchs . and the answer is , primates & patriarchae diversorum sunt nominum , sed ejusdem officii , primates and patriarchs are of different names , but of the same office . num. 5 what could have been said more punctually and expresly to the business in hand ? what more authentick and dilucid testimony could have been produced to any romanist , with whom i had to doe ? and 't is a little strange , that this gentleman should say that i onely authorize my affirmation from an epistle of anacletus , and then either he , or some supervisor for him , put in as a marginal note , he urgeth gratian too , when 1. if i urged gratian , i did not urge anacletus onely ; and 2. it is evident i did urge gratian as punctually as anacletus , and 3. gratian's words are so expresse as nothing can be more , and 4. gratian's authority with them is as great as any could have been produced ; and 5. there is not one word offered to avoid the force of gratian's testimony , as to that other of anacletus there is , which argues that this gentleman was concluded by gratian , yet would not consent to the proposition unanswerably inferred from him . and this may suffice to be noted concerning that testimony . num. 6 then for anacletus 1. his words are these , provinciarum divisio ab apostolis est renovata , the division of provinces was renued by the apostles , et in capite provinciarum — patriarchas vel primates , qui unam formam tenent , licèt diversa sint nomine , leges divinae & ecclesiasticae poni & esse jusserunt , ad quos episcopi , si necesse fuerit , confugerent , eosque appellarent , and in the head of the province — patriarchs , or primates , who hold the same form ( are of the same nature ) though they be divers names , are placed by divine and ecclesiasticall laws , so that to them the bishops , when 't is needfull , may resort and make their appeals . this testimony again as punctuall to the purpose as could have been devised . num. 7 and then secondly , this being by the romanists received as a decretall epistle of that pope and antient bishop of rome , was in reason , whatsoever it were to us , to stand with the romanist in full authority . num. 8 thirdly , this being in perfect concord with the decree of gratian , is in the aforesaid body of their canon law approved , and set out by pope gregory xiii . annext to that decree of gratian , distinct : 99. c. 1. num. 9 and fourthly , whereas this gentleman saith , that as soon as occasion serves i will tell you this epistle of anacletus is of no authority , i must say 1. that i have no where , that i remember , ever said so . 2. that this gentleman cannot without divining tell me now , what i shall doe hereafter . 3. that occasion not yet requiring it of me , but anacletus affirming what i affirm , i have no temptation to doe so , and so as yet he can have no pretence to make use of this subterfuge . 4. that there are things called argumenta ad homines , arguments that may binde him who acknowledges the authority , from which they are drawn , though they conclude not him that allows not those authorities , and such is this of anacletus his epistle , to a romanist . num. 10 and by the same logick that he can inferre that anacletus's authority was unduely produced by me , who ( as he but thinks ) will not stand to anacletus's authority , i may sure conclude that anacletus's authority was duly produced by me , because against him , who , i have reason to presume , must stand to anacletus's authority . num. 11 a third testimony of the same nature i shall now adde , which must again have force with a romanist , that of anicetus ad episcopos galliae , which follows there in the * corpus juris canonici . primarum civitatum episcopos apostoli & successores apostolorum regulariter patriarchas & primates esse constituerunt . the apostles and their successors regularly appointed that the bishops of the prime cities should be primates and patriarchs , and till somewhat be produced to the contrary , as 't is sure here is nothing offered by this gentleman , this may at the present suffice in this place . sect. iv. the supreme ecclesiasticall power of patriarchs . the power of convoking councells , a prerogative of supremacy . that the bishop of rome is not over patriarchs . proofs from the councells , and canons apostolick , and the corpus juris , and pope gregorys arguing . num. 1 the last exception concerns the supreme power of patriarchs , or the no superiority of any ecclesiasticall power over them , thus. num. 2 then he saith there was no power over the patriarchs , his proof is because the emperour used his secular authority in gathering of councels , concluding , that because the pope did not gather general councels , therefore he had no authority over the universal church , which how unconsequent that is , i leave to your judgment . num. 3 that there was no supreme power in the bishop of rome , nor in any other above that of primates and patriarchs , but onely that of the emperour in the whole christian world , as of every soveraign prince in his dominions , i thought sufficiently proved by this , that the power of convoking councels did not belong to the bishop of rome , but to the prince in every nation , and the emperour in the whole world . and i deemed this a sufficient proof , not because there are no other branches of a supreme authority imaginable , or which are claimed by the bishop of rome save onely this ; but i. because this of convoking councels is certainly one such prerogative of the supreme power , inseparable from it , and he that hath not that , hath not the supreme power ( as in any nation some prerogatives there are , which alwaies are annext to the imperial majesty , and wherever any one of them truely is , there is the supreme power , and 't is treason for any but the supreme , to assume any one of them , and one of that number is calling of national assemblies ) and secondly , because the bishop of rome doth as avowedly challenge this power of convoking general councels , as any other i could have named or insisted on . and truely that was the onely reason why i specified in this , because this of all others is most eminent in it self , most characteristical of the supreme power , and most challenged by the bishop of rome , and most due to him , in case he be the vniversal pastor . num. 4 and then where there be several branches of a power , all resident in the same subject inseparably , from the absence of one to collect the absence of all , i must still think , a solid way of probation , and cannot discern the infirm part , or inconsequence of it . if i could , it would be no difficult matter to repair it , and supply the imperfectnesse of the proof , by what is put together in the corpus juris canonici ( even now cited ) decret : par : 1. dist : 99. c. 3 , 4 , 5. num. 5 the thing that i had to prove , was , that there was not antiently any summum genus , any supreme either of , or over patriarchs , beside the prince or emperour . to this , as farre as concerns the negative part , that the bishop of rome is not this summum genus , i now cite from that third chap. primae sedis episcopus non appelletur princeps sacerdotum , vel summus sacerdos , the bishop of the first seat ought not to be called prince of the priests , or supreme priest . and this testified out of the african councel , can : 6. where the very words are recited with this addition of [ aut aliquid hujusmodi ] he is not to be called by any other title of the same kinde , sed tantum primae sedis episcopus , but onely bishop of the first see , and there were three such at that time , ( those named in the nicene canon ) alexandria , rome , antioch , as is sufficiently known . num. 6 and that he may see the practice of the church was perfectly concordant with that definition , i referre this gentleman to the milevitan councell , cap. 22. where speaking of appeals from their bishops , the rule is , non provocent nisi ad africana concilia , vel ad primates provinciarum suarum , they must appeal to none but the african councels , or the primates of their own provinces . ad transmarina autem qui putaverint appellandum , à nullo intra africam in communionem recipiantur . but if any shall think fit to appeal to any transmarine ( forreign ) judicature , they are not to be admitted to communion by any within africa . and indeed the same had been before defined by the first nicene councel , num. 7 c. 5. where the sentence pronounced against any by the bishops in each province was to stand good according to the canon ( i suppose the 12 apostolick ) which pronounces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that they which are excommunicated by some , shall not be received by others . and accordingly in the synodical epistle of the african councel to pope caelestine , which is in the book of canons of the roman church , and in the greek collection of the canons of the african church , we finde these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we intreat you ( the style of one church to another ) that for the future you will not easily admit those who have come to you from hence , and that you will not receive to your communion those who are excommunicate by us , seeing the councell of nice hath thus defined , as you may easily discern . num. 8 by all which put together by the african out of the nicene , and by the nicene out of the apostolick canon , it is evident that the bishop of rome hath not power to absolve any person excommunicate by any bishop of another province , and that 't is unlawfull for any such to make appeal to him , which certainly will conclude against every the most inferior branch of his pretended authority over the vniversal church . num. 9 if this be not enough , then adde the 34 apostolick canon , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the bishops of every nation must know him that is the first among them , i. e. their primate , and account him as their head . which sure inferres that the bishop of rome is not the one onely head of all bishops . the same is afterward transcribed by the 9 canon of antioch . num. 10 but to return to their corpus juris , so again decret : par : 1. dist : 99. c. 4. nec etiam romanus pontifex universalis est appellandus . the pope of rome is not to be called vniversal bishop , citing the epistle of pope pelagius ii. nullus patriarcharum vniversalitatis vocabulo unquam utatur , quia si unus patriarcha unversalis dicatur , patriarcharum nomen caeteris derogatur . no patriarch must ever use the title of vniversal , for if one be called universal patriarch , the name of patriarch is taken from all the rest , and more to the same purpose ; the very thing that i was here to prove . num. 11 so again ch. 5. out of the epistle of pope gregory to eulogius patriarch of alexandria , where refusing the title of vniversalis papa , vniversal pope , or father , or patriarch , and calling it superbae appellaetionis verbum , a proud title , he addes , si enim vniversalem me papam vestra sanctit as dicit , negat se hoc esse , quod me fatetur vniversum , if the patriarch of alexandria call the pope universal father , he doth thereby deny himself to be that which he affirms the pope to be universally ; the meaning is clear , if the pope be universal patriarch , then is he patriarch of aegypt , for sure that is a part of the vniverse ; and then as there cannot be two supremes , so the bishop of alexandria cannot be patriarch of aegypt , which yet from s. mark 's time was generally resolved to belong to him , and the words of the nicene canon are expresse to it , that according to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 original , primitive customes , the bishop of alexandria should have power over all aegypt , lybia , and pentapolis , adding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. seeing this is also customary with the bishop of rome , of antioch , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that the privileges should be preserved to the churches . num. 12 all which arguing of that pope , yea , and that great councel were perfectly unconcluding ( inconsequent , as mine was said to be ) if the bishop of rome , or any other , had power over patriarchs , or authority over the universal church , which here this gentleman is pleased to affirm , and so sure must think gregory more than fallible , when he thus protested , and disputed the contrary . num. 13 how much higher than this the same gregory ascended in expressing his detestation of that title , is sufficiently known from his epistle to mauritius the emperor , in regist : 1. 4. ep : 30. i shall not here trouble him with the recitation of it . num. 14 what is after these passages set down in their body of the law , shews indeed that the popes continued not alwaies of this minde , neither was i of opinion that they did , the story being known to all how boniface iii. with much adoe obtained of phocas the emperour an edict for the primacy and vniversal jurisdiction of the church of rome ( see paul : diac : de gest is romanorum , l. 18. ) which yet is an argument that till then it had no foundation . num. 15 whether there were antiently any such , higher than patriarchs , and whether now there ought to be , was the question before me , and both those i must think concluded by what i have here set down , as farre as relates to any true , i. e. original right , from any appointment of ●hrist , or title of succession to s. peter . num. 16 much more might be easily added to this head , if it were not evident that this is much more than was necessary to be replied to a bare suggestion , without any specifying what that power is , which may belong to the pope over the vniversal church , though convoking of councels did not belong to him , and without any offer of proof , that any such did really belong to him . chap. iv. an answer to the exceptions made to the fourth chapter . sect. i. the romanists pretensions founded in s. peters universal pastership . of possession without debating of right . what power the pope was possest of here . num. 1 in the fourth chap : his objections begin to grow to some height , they are reducible to three heads , the first is by way of preface , a charge of a very considerable default in the whole discourse that i remember not what matters i handle ; the other two are refutations of the two evidences i use to disprove the popes claim of universal trimacie from christ's donation to s. peter . the first of the three is set down in these words : num. 2 in the fourth chapter he pretendeth to examine whether by christ his donation s. peter had a trimacie ever the church , where not to reflect upon his curious division , i cannot omit that he remembers not what matters he handles , when he thinketh the catholick ought to prove that his church or pope hath an universal primacie ; for it being granted that in england , the pope was in quiet possession of such a primacie , the proof that it was just belongeth not to us , more than to any king , who received his kingdome from his ancestors , time out of minde , to prove his pretension to the crown just : for quiet possession of it self is a proof , untill the contrary be convinced , as who should rebell against such a king were a rebell , untill he shewed sufficient cause for quitting obedience ; with this difference , that obedience to a king may be prescription or bargain be made unnecessary , but if christ hath commanded obedience to his church , no length of years , nor change of humane affairs can ever quit us from this duty of obedience , so that the charge of proving the pope to have no such authority from christ , lieth upon the protestants now as freshly , as the first day of the breach , and will doe so untill the very last . num. 3 my method in the beginning of chap : 4. is visibly this ; the church of england being by the romanist charged of schism in departing from the obedience of the bishop of rome , and this upon pretense that he , as successor of s. peter hath a supremacy over all the churches in the world , i undertake to examine the truth of two branches of this suggestion , one whether saint peter had this universal supremacy given him by christ ; the second , whether this power , if supposed to be instated on saint peter , devolved on the bishops of rome . the former of these i examined in that chapter . and i must now discern , if i can , how i have failed in any particle of my undertaking . num. 4 first , saith he , will not reflect on my curious division . and i that know there was no curiosity in any division of mine , but on the other side , such perspicuity as was agreeable to a desire and indevour to set down the whole matter of debate between us as distinctly and intelligibly as i could , that the reader might be sure to judge whether i answered their charge , or no , i have no reason in the least to suspect the fitnesse and usefulnesse of my division , nor consequently to be impertinently sollicitous in reflecting on it . num. 5 that which he saith he cannot omit , i shall make haste to consider with him , viz : my great mistake , in thinking the catholick ought to prove his church or pope hath an universal primacie . num. 6 to this i answer , 1. that there is no manner of foundation or pretense for this exception here . for i no where say the least word toward this purpose of requiring the romanist to prove his pretensions , or to prove them by this medium , onely i take it for granted , that he doth actually produce arguments to inferre the pope's universal primacie , and that christ's donation to s. peter is one of those arguments . and that i was not herein mistaken , i shall , instead of a larger deduction of evidences from all sorts of romish writers , make my appeal to the objecter himself , in several places of this little tract , particularly p. 20. where he hath these words , we relie on the first , as the foundation , and corner-stone of the whole building , and what that first is , appears by the words immediately precedent , that the pretensions for the pope's supremacy in england must be founded as successor to s. peter in the universal pastorship of the church , so including england as a member thereof . from whence in stead of recriminating and retorting on him the charge of the ill memory , i shall onely make this undeniable inference , that i was not mistaken in thinking that the romanist doth actually found his pretensions in the universal pastorship of saint peter , and consequently , if i prove that to fail , i have removed that which in his own style is the foundation and corner stone of his whole building . num. 7 but then 2. because he here pretends that it belongs not to a romanist to prove his pretension just , but that it sufficeth that he hath the possession , i desire to propose these three things to his consideration , 1. by demanding whether at this time , or for these 100 years the pope hath had the possession of the obedience of this nation ; i suppose he will say he hath not ; and if so , then by the force of his own argument , that possession , and all the arguments deducible from thence , are now lost to him , the prescription being now on our side , as before on theirs , and there is nothing left him to plead , but the original right on his side , against the violence of the succeeding possession : and if he come to the pleading of the right , then that is the very method that i proposed , and so did not offend or forget my self in so doing . num. 8 secondly , concerning their possession before henry viii . his daies , i shall demand how long they had it , and how they acquired it ; if he will not at all think fit to answer this question in either part , then i confesse he hath made an end of the dispute , and by refusing to give account of the right he had to his possession , he will leave every man to catch and hold what he can , and then to imitate him , and give no account to any how he came by it , which as it is an unchristian method , every man being obliged to clear his actions from manifest charges of injustice and violence , so again 't is an evil lesson against himself , and unlesse we will confesse our selves schismaticks in casting off their obedience , 't is impossible for him ever to prove us such , this kinde of schism , which now we speak of , being by all acknowledged to be a separation from our lawfull superiors , and no way being imaginable to prove the pope to be such to this nation , without offering some proof to the point of right , as well as adhering to his possession . num. 9 to which purpose it is farther observable , 1. that even in secular things it is not every possession that gives a right , but 1. either the bonae fidci possessio , a possession honestly come by , or the unjustnesse of whose original is not contested or made to appear . and 2. whatsoever privilege by humane laws belongs to prescription , yet in divine or ecclesiasticall matters prescription can be of no force against truth of right , and so this gentleman seems to acknowledge here , extending the force of possession no farther than till sufficient cause be shewed to the contrary . 3. that though whilst i am in possession i need not be bound to prove my right , yet when i am out of possession , there is not , beside absolute force , any way possible to recover a possession , but this of contesting and evidencing the right of it , and that , 't is evident , is the present case . num. 10 but if he shall think fit to answer the question in either part of it , then by the answer to the first part of it , he must be forced to set down the original of it ; and by answer to the second , the right of that original ( and so he hath been fain to doe , as elsewhere , so in this very paragraph , where he speaks of christ's commanding obedience to his church , i suppose he must mean the church of rome ) and that is again the very method in which i proposed to debate , and consider this matter . num. 11 thirdly , for the power , of which the pope was possest in this kingdome , either it was no more than an ecclesiastical primacie , such as by the antient canons belongs to a primate or patriarch over metropolitans and bishops , or else it was a supreme power over the king himself , whether in spiritual , or also in temporal affairs . num. 12 if it pretend onely to be the former of these , then the power of kings to erect or translate primacies or patriarchates , which is insisted on and evidenced in the tract of schisme , c 6. § . 9. was sufficient then to justifie what here was done , no possession being pleadable against the king , to restrain or exclude this exercise of his power , and so now to free us from schisme , ( by this gentleman's rule ) this act of the kings in translating the primacie being sufficient cause for quitting our obedience , supposing the bishop of rome formerly to have been our primate . num. 13 but if the pretensions be higher , even for the supremacie it self , either in whole , or in part , then 1. i may surely say they were never bonae fidei possessores of that , and 2. that the king , who by being so , is supreme in his own kingdome , and cannot admit of another supreme either in or out of it , hath all the advantages of possession , which are here spoken of by this gentleman , and must not be divested of his right , nay must not , cannot ( remaining a king ) divest himself of it , nor might any without the guilt of rebellion quit his obedience to him . num. 14 lastly , to remove all appearance of reason from this whole exception , 1. it is manifest that at the time of casting out the power of the pope out of this kingdome , there were ( i must have leave to suppose , convincing ) reasons given for the doing of it , a breviate of which the reader may finde in that one treatise ( mentioned in the tract of schism , p. 135. ) de verâ differentiâ regiae & ecclesiasticae potestatis , then composed and published by the bishops , and since reprinted by melchior goldastus in monarchia , tom : 3. p. 22. under the title of opus eximium , a very notable excellent work . 2. that how meanly so ever it hath been performed , yet this was one special design of the tract of schism ( which this gentleman saith will alwaies lie upon protestants ) to prove the pope to have no such authority from christ , as the romanist pretendeth him to have . and this i hope may suffice to be said to his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his prelusory skirmish against this fourth chapter . sect. ii. the condition of s. peter's province . the apostles distribution of their great province , the world , into several portions . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. 1. the interpretation thereof vindicated . num. 1 i proceed now to his refutations of the first evidence i make use of to disprove the pope's claim to universal primacie from christ's donation to s. peter . num. 2 my evidence is taken from the condition of s. peter's province , as by agreement betwixt him and his fellow apostle s. paul , it was assigned him , gal. 2. 7 , 9. that he should be the apostle of the circumcision or jewes ( which certainly was not the whole world ) exclusively to the gentile part , or the uncircumcision , which was remitted to s. paul both there and rom. 11. 13. and this , as is * there specified , in every city where they met together . and because the universal extensive commission of christ to all and every apostle , giving them authority to go and preach to the whole world , might seem to be contrary to this special assignation , i took care to prevent this objection , by premising that this commission given by christ indefinitely , and unlimitedly , and extending equally to the whole world , was restrained by some subsequent act or acts of the apostles themselves , who distributed their universal province into several portions and assignations , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , portions of apostolacy , and the several provinces where they were thus to labour , styled each of them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to each an assigned peculiar place , act. 1. 25. num. 3 now to this groundwork of my insuing probation , he makes his first exception in these words : as for his proofs , which he calls evidences , he telleth us first that s. peter was the apostle of the circumcision exclusively to the uncircumcision or gentiles ; to prove this , he saith the apostles distributed their universal province into several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , by his interpretation , lesser provinces , and citeth act. 1. v. 25. where s. peter with the other apostles prayeth god to shew which of the two proposed he was pleased to have promoted to the dignity of being an apostle , this they call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and this rigorous interpreter saith , it signifies the special province s. matthias was to have , though the scripture it self expresseth the contrary , saying the effect was that afterward he was counted amongst the apostles : could any man not blinded with error make so wretched an interpretation ? but he goes on presently adding that s. peter in the same place calleth these particular provinces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and will you know what this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or proper place is , read the text , and you shall finde that s. peter speaketh of judass , ' going to hell to receive his eternall damnation : methinks you should wonder i can go on without astonishment at such blasphemous explications , for sure it can be no lesse so to abuse the word of god , and after this what doe you expect ? num. 4 here are two great charges , the first introduced by styling me a rigorous interpreter , and prosecuted , by affirming me blinded with error , my interpretation wretched and contrary to what the scripture expresseth . but the second is of no lesse than blasphemy , and abusing the word of god , and his friend is to wonder that he is not astonished , and after i have been guilty of such crimes as these , 't is in vain forsooth to expect any thing from me , the whole insuing discourse is utterly defamed and blasted , like * philopemen's good counsel in the senate of lacedaemon , by being delivered by so ill a man , so infamous a person , as a blasphemer is justly deemed by him . num. 5 but i am not to be disquieted with this , or to prepare any reply to the rhetorical passionate part of it , if the interpretations shall be found agreeable to scripture , the astonishment and the outcrie will be soon at an end , and therefore that is the onely care that i shall here assume on me . num. 6 and 1. i shall suppose it evident from the story , and from the very end to which this commissionating so great a number of twelve apostles was designed , that all the apostles were not to go together , in consort , to preach unto all the world , it would have been long ere the faith would have been propagated to all the world , if this slower method had been taken . num. 7 to this it is consequent , that our saviour having left the world in common before them , the distribution of that one wider into severall lesser provinces must be an act of the apostles themselves , as when god had given the land of canaan to the 12 tribes of israel , eleazar , and josua , and the heads of the fathers of the tribes distribute to every tribe their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or portion ( which because it was to continue to their posterity , we ordinarily style their inheritance ) jos . 14. 1. num. 8 and as there is no doubt of the truth of this fact , so if this one thing be granted me , there is no more incumbent on me to prove in this matter ; and though neither of those phrases , act. 1. 25. should be for my turn , yet my conclusion remains good to me , as farre as it pretendeth to be deducible from those phrases , viz : that the apostles distributed their great province , the whole world , into severall lesser provinces , one , or possibly more than one to go one way , the other another . num. 9 it was therefore ex abundanti , more than was necessary , that i annexed the use of those phrases to that purpose , not undertaking to prove this ( as this gentleman saith ) by those texts , much lesse peter's being apostle of the circumcision ( which was a consectary and had its several probation afterwards ) but onely accommodating those phrases to the matter in hand , and by the way assigning what i thought the most probable notion of them . num. 10 and although it be still as unnecessary to impose my explications on this gentleman , the conclusion having as yet no use of them , yet being obliged to give him such an account of my actions , as may free me from blasphemy , and abuse of the word of god , i shall here adventure to make my apologie , by premising 1. not out of grammarians onely , but out of the scripture it self , the notion of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifying originally a lot or way of division ( into severals ) of that , which belongs to all in common ( one means of setling propriety among men ) it comes next by an easie figure to signifie that which is thus divided , or which in the division falls to every man as his portion . num. 11 so saith phavorinus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the verb signifies distribution both active and passive : and accordingly in the son of syrach we have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 division of , or , by lot , ecclus. 14 15. and by that we may understand a lesse obvious expression , c. 37. 8. beware of a counseller , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lest he cast the lot upon thee , i. e. lest he help another to cheat thee , and then go sharer with him , divide thee betwixt them . num. 12 so in like manner saith phavorinus of the substantive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it signifies a part , that which falls to one's lot , a portion , as act. 8. 21. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 portion and lot are all one . and he that hath a possession thus setled on him , and dominion by that means , or he that undertakes to dresse or till so much land , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the lord and the husbandman , are both the interpretation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he that hath such a lot or portion assigned him . num. 13 proportionably those that any governour of the church is set over , are called his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or lot , and 1 pet. 5. 3. such governours are commanded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not to behave themselves as the roman pretors were wont to doe over their several provinces , oppressing and tyrannizing over them . num. 14 to this it is agreeable , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. 1. 17. should denote such a portion of ministerial office , as belonged to one that was sent or commissionated by christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to a task or work , exprest v. 20. by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his episcopal office ( for that though it be a rule , yet is also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a ministerie , mat. 23. 11. ) in the church . num. 15 hence again that portion of employment in preaching the faith , testifying the resurrection of christ , which belonged to one single apostle , such as judas was , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from which he departed by his sin , and to which another succeed● by way of surrogation , is as fitly styled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a portion of apostolacy , a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or division of that grand employment . num. 16 and what either one single error or act of blindnesse was committed in thus interpreting , much more occoecation or being blinded with error , which i suppose the compound accumulation ( whether onely sin or punishment also ) of many errors , what rigor or wretchednesse of interpretation , i am still so blinde as not to discern , and this gentleman is not so charitable , as to give me his least directions to recover to my way , or my eyes again . num. 17 for as to the scriptures expressing the contrary , in saying he was counted among the apostles , that sure is no evidence against my interpretation , for matthias may become one of the twelve , succeed to judas's office and lot , that which did , or should , if he had lived , have belonged to him , and yet neither he , if he had lived , nor now matthias in his stead , have more than a particular province , this or that region , ( not the whole world in common ) assigned for his appartment . num. 18 so that as yet i cannot discern that i have done the least injury to the text in thinking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the lot or division of apostolacy , to be the several task that belonged to any of the twelve apostles , or that portion of labour , that by consent at their parting one from another should be assigned to each of them . num. 19 and then the analogie will still hold perfectly , that as this distribution of tasks consisted in going to severall quarters for the preaching of the faith of christ , one , one way ; another , another ; so he that had received his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 portion of apostolacy , should be said to have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a peculiar or proper place , and having so , should ( not immediately , but soon after the ghost's descent ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , go , or , betake himself to it . num. 20 this therefore , and upon these grounds of fitnesse , both in respect of the words , and the context , i take to be the meaning of that phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to go to his proper place , his peculiar assignation , and i cannot imagine the least inconvenience that can lie against this rendring . num. 21 for 1. in case it should not be the true , yet it can be any thing as soon as blasphemy , thus to interpret it . 't is certainly nothing to the dishonour of god , to say that matthias went and preacht the gospel in such a region peculiarly , and so there is no blasphemie in that , viz : the matter of the interpretation ; and for the abusing of the word of god , it is hard to divine how that can be deemed such , which affixeth nothing to the word of god , but that which is notoriously true ( for so it is that matthias went one way to preach the gospel , and s. john and s. bartholomew each of them another ) and would be acknowledged to doe so , if this text were not applied to it . num. 22 as for the other interpretation of the words ( which this gentleman is pleased to preferre , and might have injoyed his own judgment , without censuring them as blasphemers , that differed from him in expounding one difficult phrase ) by affixing it to judas , and not to matthias , 1. there is no indication in the context that favours that , it was sufficient to say of judas that which had been said v. 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. to set out the horror of his fact , which soon attended it in his own breast , and the bloody death which it brought upon him , but he needed not proceed to revealing of secrets , the sadder consequents , which remained in arrear after death , and 't is chrysostome's observation on v. 16. behold , saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the wise christian carriage of s. peter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , how he doth not reproach , and insult on him , calling him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , villain , or detestable villain , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but sets down the fact simply , and on v. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he sets down , saith he , his present vengeance , that sure is it which befell him in this world , which , by the way , cannot well consist with the interpreting it of hell . num. 23 2. the use of parentheses in scripture is very ordinary , and if that be here admitted ( which it well may , without any more formal expression of it , than by putting a comma after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as it is already in the printed copies ) then the interpretation is clear and unavoidable , to receive the lot or portion of his ministerie and apostleship ( from which judas by transgression fell ) to go , or , that he may go to his proper place . num. 24 3. hell being the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the common place or lot of all wicked men , it cannot fitly be exprest with such a double emphasis , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the place , the proper place , i. e. the place peculiar to him , which yet may very fitly be affirmed of matthias his province , so his , as it was not any mans else . num. 25 lastly , it is not near so proper to say that he sinned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to go to hell , as that the other was chosen and surrogated into judas's place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to go to preach to such a quarter of the world , or that the apostles desired god to signifie his pleasure whom he had chosen , that so he might take his portion of labour and go ; his going was visibly the end intended in all this , but damnation or punishment , going to hell , was never intended by judas in his transgression , though it be supposed the deserved reward and consequent of it . num. 26 all this amassed together , may , i hope , vindicate an innocent , and , i hope , obvious ( farre from wrested ) interpretation from such an accumulation of charge , as is laid upon it , without any tender of reason against it , but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , o wretched ( blasphemous &c. ) in lucian . and so much in answer to that paragraph . sect. iii. s. peter the apostle of the circumcision ; the agreement betwixt the apostles . peter's preaching to cornelius . num. 1 his second exception is to the position it self of peter's being the apostle of the jewes exclusively to the gentiles , and it is in these words : num. 2 his position is a directly against scripture , as if he had done it on purpose , the scripture telling us how by a special vision s. peter was commanded to preach to cornelius a gentile first of all the apostles , and himself in the councel of jerusalem protesting the same ; and yet this doctor can teach he was made apostle to the jewes , exclusively to the gentiles , though all story say the contrary . num. 3 the position , which is here said to be so directly against the scripture , was to my understanding the expresse affirmation of scripture it self , i am sure from thence it was that i learnt it , and i must fail very much in my expectation , if this gentleman himself doe not acknowledge the testimony produced , gal. 2. 7. to be sufficient ground to inferre it . there peter is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , intrusted with the gospel of the circumcision , that the circumcision there signifies the jews , and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we render gospel , the office of preaching or revealing the faith to them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the apostolacy of the circumcision , ver . 8. if it be not of it self plain enough , 't is made so by ver . 9. where it is added that peter &c. were by agreement to go 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the circumcision , where circumcision , being the object or term of his motion , must needs be the jewes , not circumcision it self , and so saint chrysostome at large expounds it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not to signifie the thing , circumcision , but the persons , the jewes , in opposition to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the gentiles , in the former words , and then going to them must needs be preaching to them , going to them as to a province , the care of which was intrusted to him ; and the right hands of fellowship , the agreement that was made betwixt them , james the bishop of jerusalem , and peter , and the beloved disciple on one side , and paul and barnabas on the other side , is side , is sure the interpretation of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the being intrusted or having that , as a province , committed to them . num. 4 and this is the special importance , saith s. chrysostome , of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but contrariwise ( the beginning of ver . 7. ) as that is opposed to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their adding to him v. 6. james , saith he , and peter and john , were so farre from opposing any thing that he had done , from advising any thing more , from telling him any circumstance more than before he knew , that they not onely approved , but commended what he had done , and to set the things the more unquestionably for the future , made this agreement with him and barnabas , that whensoever they should come to the same city , mixt of jewes and gentiles , peter and john should betake themselves to the jewish , and paul and barnabas to the gentile part of it . for , as was said , it was not by any particular assignation of christ's , but by agreement among themselves that this assignation of provinces was made . num. 5 and therefore as in point of propriety , when that which is supposed to lie by nature in common to all , is , to avoid contentions and confusions , and the state of perpetual hostility , so distributed by agreement among the fellow-communers , as that one portion shall be assigned as the propriety and appartment of one , the other of another , then and from thenceforth that which is the proportion of one , is so his , that it belongs to no other , and again so his , that he hath no right to any other part ( which i should expresse by saying that that part is his exclusively to any other part , for sure his standing to any such division cuts him out , and so excludes him from any farther right ) so here after this agreement between those apostles jointly made , concerning the two parts of mankinde , jewes and gentiles , to which they were to preach , and among whom to preside , the jewes are become s. peter's peculiar , or portion , or province , and that so his , as the gentiles were not his , they being left to s. paul ( and barnabas ) who is both there affirmed to have them committed to him , and rom. 11. 13. to be the apostle of the gentiles ; and that i exprest by that phrase , peter was the apostle of the jewes ( so it is said of him expresly gal. 2. 8. ) exclusively to the uncircumcision ] and truly i knew not ( nor yet doe ) how to expresse it more significatively , and more to the rendring of the full importance of those plain texts , and this gentleman hath not pleased to direct me how to doe it better . num. 6 and having the scripture thus clear and irrefragable for my position , if now i should not be able to salve the antinomies , to answer his objections from scripture to it , this were certainly but my dulness ( another that hath a greater 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might be able to doe it ) and therefore ought not to be any prejudice to the truth of the affirmation . but unlesse the difficulties be greater than as yet appear , i shall not much doubt of undertaking the taske , of reconciling all the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that can be phansied . num. 7 for what if peter by special vision was once commanded to preach to cornelius a gentile ? sure this is very competible with my position , for not to mention that this is acknowledged to have been a peculiar commission by special vision determined to that particular person and his family , which , till he had this vision , he thought it utterly unlawfull to preach to , act. 10. 28. ( and it is certain that one special case were no prejudice to the general position ) and again that cornelius though a gentile , was yet a proselyte of the jews , such as they called a proselyte of the gates , though not of justice , a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or devout man , though not circumcised ; to omit these , i say , the answer is obvious , 1. that this agreement , of which i speak , was at the time of paul's going up to jerusalem , act. 15. i. e. some years after this of peter's preaching to cornelius , as may appear gal. 2. 1. which defines it to be about 14 years after s. paul's conversion , whereas that of peter's preaching to cornelius , act. 10. placed in the next chapter to that which described the conversion of paul , must needs be some considerable space before this time of his going up to the councel at jerusalem . and so that of peter's preaching to cornelius , and his protesting the same in the councel of ierusalem , hath nothing of opposition to this agreement ( made for the future , sure , not for the time past ) what should be done in their after-preaching , i suppose i need adde no more to that which is thus evident . num. 8 secondly , i have already sufficiently * exprest , how farre this agreement extended , and how farre exclusive it was , not that it should be unlawful for peter to preach to a gentile , or for paul to preach to a iew , but that when they met in the same city ( as at antioch certainly they did , and at rome also i make no question ) then the one should constantly apply himself to the iewes , receive disciples , form them into a church , leave them to be governed by a bishop of his assignation , and the other should doe in like manner to the gentiles . num. 9 and that this was so in the consequents of the story , is largely shewed in that tract . what could have been said more punctually to prevent this exception taken from peter's preaching to cornelius , i cannot yet discern . i wish this gentleman had pleased to take notice of it ; as it is , i hope he will now be more sure to doe so . sect. iv. paul's first preaching to the iewes in every city . to what the agreement between him and peter belonged . num. 1 another argument he adds much to the same purpose , which will make his third exception . num. 2 again , if he were made the apostle of the iewes , exclusively to the gentiles , by the same reason s. paul was made apostle of the gentiles exclusively to the iewes , for the words are like ; and yet the scripture teacheth us that whereever he came , he preached first to the iewes : is not this to make scripture ridiculous ? num. 3 here is great severity again , a charge of making scripture ridiculous , but i hope i have been farre from any guilt of it . that s. paul , whensoever he came to a city , where the faith had not been preached , and where there was any synagogue of the iews , went into that synagogue in time of their publick assembling , i never made any question , were this before , or were it after the story of act. 15 . when i suppose this agreement to be made betwixt him and s. peter , &c. num. 4 great reason , and no small obligation there was for that ; for i. christ had commanded that the preaching should begin at ierusalem , the metropolis of the iewes , and as to the iewes first ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) god had raised up his son iesus , act. 3. 26. so the gospel of the resurrection was to be revealed ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) to the iew first , rom. 1. 16. num. 5 and although in paul's commission from christ it were peculiarly express that he should preach the gospel to the gentiles , act. 9. 15. & 22. 21. yet according to this great fundamental oeconomie he counted it necessary , first to make tender of his service , and of the glad tidings of the gospel , to the iewes , and so he tells them act. 13. 46. it was necessary that the word of god should first have been spoken to you , and till the iewes refuse it and reject it , he doth not betake himself so peculiarly to the gentiles . num. 6 again , this was in some measure necessary to his publishing the faith , for that was most advantageously to be done in the publick assemblies , that it might be known to all that were in the city : and the synagogues of the iewes being such , were in all reason by him , that was a iew , to be preferred before the idolatrous temples of the heathens : and according to these obligations , and inducements , so generally he did ; but then as this no way prejudiceth his title of apostle of the gentiles , to which he was at the first assigned by christ , so neither is it any way contrary to , or unreconcileable with the agreement which i suppose to be made between him and peter and iohn , which concerned onely those cities and regions , where they met , and came to plant churches ; there , and there onely it is , that i affirm this distribution of provinces to have been made , and consequently the affirmation is no farther in any justice to be extended , than thus , that when they so met , paul betook himself to the gentile part , compacted the gentile proselytes or believers into a church , put them into the hands of a bishop of his own assignation , ignatius at antioch , timothy at ephesus , whereas euodius was in the former , bishop of the iewish part , and in the latter , and in all asia , iohn was the apostle of the circumcision , and constituted bishops there . and this i suppose , without farther inlarging , may satisfie the importunity of his second argument . sect. v. of the gentiles being s. paul's province peculiarly . num. 1 his fourth exception is to my producing the words of scripture , gal. 2. 7 , 9. to the proof of my position , thus , num. 2 but he goes on telling us , that the gentiles exclusively to the circumcision were the lot of s. paul by s. peter's own confession , his words are , for the uncircumcision or gentiles they were not s. peter 's province , but peculiarly s. paul 's &c. but look on the place and you shall finde no word of exclusion as [ pec'iarly ] is , and whereon lieth the whole question , so that the doctors evidence is his own word against the main torrent of scripture on the other side . num. 3 how truly it is suggested , that the torrent of the scripture is against me , hath already been made manifest in the foregoing sections , where the contrary appearances , by this gentleman produced , as they are farre enough from a main torrent , or from the common force of such , ( or but even of an ordinary stream ) carrying the whole businesse before them , so they are severally examined , and allowed , as farre as they have any force in them , and found perfectly reconcileable with our pretensions . num. 4 and so likewise it hath already been cleared in what sense this apostle of the gentiles , so styled by himself , and so , by agreement betwixt the apostles , acknowledged by s. peter , was so , peculiarly or exclusively to the iewes . num. 5 as for his argument drawn onely from hence , that in the text to the galatians there is no word of exclusion , that sure is of little force ; if there were any agreement , and division , and several assignation of provinces , it must follow that what was said to be one mans province , is his , so as it is not the others , and so peculiarly , and so as farre as that agreement holds , exclusively his , as in the estate first held in common , and then after by agreement divided , it hath appeared so evidently , that i need adde no more to that matter . sect. vi. of s. peter's withdrawing from the gentile-communion . of the gentile diet . the prudence of s. peter's action . num. 1 his fift exception concerns an incidental passage about s. peter , and is an actio injuriarum . num. 2 again ( saith he ) see how he wrongs s. peter and his iewish proselytes , where he saies he withdrew from all communion with the gentile christians . whereas the text expresseth no more , than that he withdrew from eating with them , that is keeping the gentile diet . num. 3 what wrong i have done s. peter and his gentile proselytes , i am yet to learn , nor am i sure that i know wherein this gentleman placeth the supposed injury , but i think it most probable to consist in this , that i say he withdrew from all communion with the gentile christians , whereas he conceives that he withdrew onely from keeping the gentile diet . num. 4 but 1. let me demand of this gentleman , what he means by gentile diet ? i suppose using those sorts of meats , which were by the jewish law forbidden ; and if that be acknowledged of s. peter , that he would not thus eat with the gentiles , lest he should seem to offend against the jewish law , then by the same reason he must certainly be supposed to abstain from other communion with them , because it was equally against the iewish law , that a iew should converse with a gentile , as the woman of samaria tells christ , when he spake to her , but to draw him some water , ioh. 4. 9. how , said she , dost thou being a iew ask me to drink ( and it was but water , none of the interdicted gentile diet ) being a woman of samaria ? and either she or the evangelist renders the reason , in as comprehensive termes as mine were , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the iewes have no dealings with the samaritanes , and accordingly v. 27. the disciples marvelled that he talked with the woman . and therefore certainly peter did abstain from all those other waies of converse and communion with the gentiles , which the iewes thought as unlawfull , as eating of the gentile diet , or else he failed of the end of his action , which is evident what it was , a fear of scandalizing his countreymen , and from thence a shew of compliance with them , lest he should be thought by those that came from ierusalem to forsake the iudaical law . num. 5 that the very preaching to a gentile ( which was the loosest degree of communion ) was , according to the iewish principles as unlawfull as eating any unclean meat , using the gentile diet , is plain by peter's provision , act. 10. 12. where the one is represented by the other , and had he not received that vision , which made it lawful to him to eat all kinde of meats , he acknowledgeth that he durst not have adventured to come to one of another nation , v. 28. affirming in as plain words as could be , that it was an unlawful thing for a man that was a iew to keep company or come to one of another nation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which certainly includes all communion , and not onely that of the genile diet . thus unhappy is this gentleman continually in his objections . num. 6 it were here obvious , and easie to shew the opinion of the antients of the prudence and to kinde of uncharitableness of s. peters action , which would farther evidence how farre i am from wronging s. peter or his proselytes , in affirming what i affirm of them . but the present objection doth not make that necessary , i referre the reader for it to the ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) interpretation , or comments of * s. chrysostome , who sets it down exactly † not as a quarrel , but as an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an act of prudent managery , a wise ordering , designed by him and s. paul , as most likely to reduce the iewes from their errors , when he that did thus much to comply with them ( not for fear of persecution from them , but for fear of averting them from christianity ) and was herein seemingly opposed by s. paul ( the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. 11. being not to be rendred , he was to be blamed , in paul's opinion , but he was blamed by the gentile christians ) made no manner of reply in defense of that compliance with the iewes , and so yeilded that s. paul was in the right , and not the iudaizers . this interpretation of chrysostome is followed by the greek commentators , and taken up by ierome , but disliked by augustine in his epistles to ierome , and therefore i lay not weight upon it , nor have my pretensions any need of it . sect. vii . the two plantations of gentile and iewish christians at antioch . euodius and ignatius . the differences of the antients about them reconciled . the two bishops at rome . iewes in england . simon zelotes . gentium ecclesia the church of iewes as well as gentiles . num. 1 having gained so little by the several steps of his exceptions , and the position remaining still firm against all , i have lesse reason to suspect what is built upon this foundation in the insuing sections : yet against them altogether he casts one stone , before he will part , in those words , num. 2 vpon this wisely laid ground , he would perswade us , followed the division of the bishopricks both in antioch and rome , but bringing not one word of antiquity proving this to have been the cause , yet is he so certain of it , that he will finde a colonie of iewes even in england , for fear s. peter should have touched a gentile , and yet he cites s. prosper , that both s. peter and s. paul founded the church of gentiles in rome . num. 3 what force there is in any part of this suggestion , i shall not here need to set down at large . there be three branches of it , 1. that i bring not a word of antiquity to prove ( what i say ) that this the cause of the divisions of the bishopricks both in antioch and rome . 2. that i will finde a colonie of iewes in england . 3. that i cite prosper , that both s. peter and s. paul founded the church of gentiles in rome . num. 4 for the first , i desire the reader to review what is already said in the tract of schism c. 4. from § . 8. to § . 20. and i shall much wonder if he return of this gentleman's minde , that there is not one word there brought out of antiquity to confirm what i say . the short is , it is there manifested from antiquity , that the church of antioch was founded by s. peter and s. paul , that there were two churches there , one of iewish , the other of gentile christians , that in those churches at the same time sate two distinct bishops , euodius and ignatius ; by which means some appearing difficulties in antient writers are explained . num. 5 to what is there said , i shall , instead of repeating , adde thus much more . of suidas's words will be easily turned to , in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. in the reign of claudius caesar , peter the apostle ordained euodius bishop at antioch . of ignatius the * author of the constitutions is expresse , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ignatius was ordained bishop there by s. paul. now seeing in those acts of ignatius which are put together by simeon metaphrastes , ignatius is said to succeed euodius , as euodius succeeded peter ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and the anonymus antient writer of the acts of ignatius , which remains unprinted , hath the same , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ignatius succeeded euodius , and seeing this ordination of ignatius is also said by † theodores , and by * felix iii. bishop of rome to have been done by the hand of saint peter , this seeming difference is removed by * ioannes malela antiochenus , who thus sets down the whole matter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when peter went to rome , passing by antioch the great , euodius bishop and patriarch of antioch happened to die , and ignatius ( who was , as was said , first constituted by s. paul over the gentiles there ) received the bishoprick ( that i suppose must now be , of the iewish province also ; over which euodius had been in his life time ) s. peter ordaining and enthroning him , and so that is become most clear which * s. chrysostome said of this ignatius , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. the hands of the blessed apostles , ( in the plural , first of paul , then of peter ) had been laid on ignatius . num. 6 the other part which concerned rome , * was so cleared by the words of epiphanius , who saith of peter and paul both , that they were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , apostles and bishops at rome , and so many other evidences produced to the same purpose , from the inscription on their tombs , by gaius contemporary to pope zephyrinus , by dionysius bishop of corinth , by prosper , by the seals of the popes , and so again by the ecclesiastick story , that makes clemens s. peters deacon and successor in the bishoprick , and paul's that sure there can be no need of farther proofs or testimonies from antiquity in this matter . num. 7 whilst in the mean , other churches are * instanced in , particularly the churches of asia , wherein s. paul and s. iohn had all the command , and s. peter had nothing to doe , whether in planting or governing them , which alone is sufficient to carry the whole matter against s. peter's universal pastorship , and no word is by this gentleman replied to that so considerable a part of my probation , onely instead of it , a farre more compendious way , that of the scornfull or fastidious scossing at my wisely laid ground , as he pleaseth to call it , and adding that i bring not one word of antiquity &c. num. 8 as to the second branch of his suggestion , that i will finde a colonie of iewes in england , that is no where said by me , onely thus , that upon supposition , if the saying of simeon metaphrastes ( speaking of s. peter's preaching and ordaining bishops in england , neronis 12 ) should be thought to have truth in it , it must be extended no farther than the iewes , which might at that time be dispersed there . num. 9 where , as my conclusion from that supposition is founded in the analogie , that as , where s. paul and s. peter met in any plantation , they divided their province &c. so in reason it ought to be , where s. peter and simon zelotes , or ioseph of arimathea met in like manner , so all that of the iewes in england i there affirm , is onely this , that it was possible they that were dispersed in so many regions , might be , some of them , dispersed in britannie , which how improbable soever it may appear at that time , is sure as probable , as that s. peter preached and ordained bishops in britannie , and in consequence to that onely it was , that i made the supposition of the possibility of it , knowing it the affirmation of our antiquaries , that joseph of arimathea , or simon zelotes ( 't is possible also that simeon metaphrastes might mistake simon peter for him and then that matter is at an end ) planted the faith in this island . num. 10 as for his last suggestion , that i cite saint prosper , that both s peter and s. paul founded the church of gentiles in rome , i desire the truth of it may be considered by the words which i cite from him , in ipsa hierusalem iacobus & ioannes apud ephesum , andreas & caeteri per totam asiam , petrus & paulus apostoli in urbe roma gentium ecclesiam pacatam unamque posteris tradentes ex dominicâ pactione sacrârunt , james at jerusalem , john at ephesus , andrew and the rest through all asia , peter and paul at rome , consecrated the church of the nations . what nations were these , sure of jewes , as well as gentiles , else jerusalem could not be any part of them , no nor john's converts at ephesus , for they were iewes , and therefore this gentleman did not doe well to substitute the word gentiles for nations , and yet could not , without doing so , have made this exception to my words . num. 11 and so much for exceptions to my first evidence against the vniversal pastorship of saint peter . sect. viii . no promise of keyes to s. peter , which was not made and performed to all the apostles , joh. 20. 21. the completion of the promise , mat. 16. 19. pasce oves . joh. 21. an exhortation , not commission . num. 1 the second sort of exceptions follows , those against my evidence drawn from the power of the keyes , which i say , and prove both from scripture , and expresse testimonies of the fathers , that it was given equally to all the apostles ; and his exceptions begin thus : num. 2 a second evidence he bringeth from the donation of the keyes , which he saith were given equally to the apostles , mat. 28. yet confesseth the keyes were especially promised to s. peter , mat. 16. but performed onely in common , mat. 28. which though they may be both true , yet is absurdly said , for who acknowledgeth a special promise , should have found out a special performance , which is done , joh. 21. num. 3 this exception being not to the matter of what i say , but to the absurdnesse of the expression ( to which censure i must suppose every thing liable , which is contrary to his pretensions , and yet proved so manifestly that it cannot be denied by him ) i shall briefly evidence how commodious , and proper the expression was . num. 4 and 1. whereas he sets it down as my confession , that the keyes were especially promised to s. peter , this is not with truth suggested ; my words are , this power mat. 16. 19. is promised to s. peter ] but the [ especially ] is an interpolation of this gentleman's , to prepare my words for his exceptions , for which otherwise they were no way qualified . num. 5 all that can be fetcht from any words of mine toward this sense , is , that in the next section , i foresaw , and so mentioned an objection from christ's making this promise to him peculiarly ( and yet even that is not , to him especially , but to him particularly , or singly , i will give unto thee &c. ) to this , as to an objection , i presently made reply , that the repetition of that promise mat. 18. 18. to all the apostles indefinitely , and without any peculiarity of restriction ( i say to you , in the plural , and , whatsoever ye shall binde &c. ) will take away all appearance from this objection . num. 6 and so it will from this gentleman's exception also , for if what was at one time promised to s. peter singly , was so soon after promised to all the apostles indefinitely , what absurdity is there in seeking no other performance of this promise , than that which was at once afforded to all the apostles together , in the descent of the holy ghost , when the fire , that represented that spirit , divided and sat upon every one of them , and they were all filled with the holy ghost , and no shew of peculiarity , or mark of especiall eminence to s peter in all this . num. 7 as suppose a generall should promise a commission this day to one , and to morrow should make the like promise to eleven more , that one being in their company , and then , upon a set day , some weeks after , should send 12 commissions sealed to those 12 , one for each of them , i wonder who would doubt of the exact performance of this promise to that first , or seek for any more special performance of it . num. 8 but this gentleman having phansied a special promise ( as that is with him somewhat more than a particular promise , for otherwise a common performance might have served the turn , it being certain that an vniversal contains every particular under it ) must needs have a special performance , and that ioh. 21. i suppose in those words of christ to s. peter , feed my sheep , and , feed my lambs , thrice repeated . num. 9 but for this , 1. i cannot acknowledge that it hath any particular reference to the words of the promise , mat. 16. 19. the promise was , i will give thee the keyes — and , whatsoever thou shalt binde — and sure the direct completion of this , as farre as could be expected from christ personally , whilst he was here on earth , is that of ioh. 20. 21. where , as the sending or commissionating is answerable to giving the keyes , the insigne of the oeconomus , so remitting and retaining of sins is all one with the binding and loosing . num. 10 as for that which is after this chap. 21. it is i. by that very position of it ; but 2. more by the occasion ; and yet more 3. by the matter of the words , prejudged from being any more than an exhortation to discharge that duty , for which in the former chap : he , with the rest of the twelve , had received his commission , and so is still as farre from being a speciall performance , as that of matth. 16. had been from a special promise . num. 11 the pasce oves , feed my sheep and lambs , thrice repeated , was certainly a direction to him how he might approve his love to that master and saviour , whom he had thrice renounced , testifie it now to be a sincere constant love ( such as would cast out all fear of danger , through which formerly he had fallen ) by an eminent diligence in discharge of that pastoral office , which was intrusted to him , but 't was not so much as an intimation , that his diligence would be actually greater than all others ( for sure s. paul said truth , that he laboured more abundantly than they all , of whom s. peter was one ) but rather that he , that after such professions had fallen so foully , had the more need now of having this proof of his love inculcated and prest , lest he should fail again ( much lesse is it a sealing any power or authority to him , above that which before had been conferred on him , and with him on those others also . num. 12 and nothing being here offered to prove that there was any more of energie , or special commission in these words , but onely the thing crudely affirmed , by naming ioh. 21. there is no need of making any farther answer , a bare deniall is a proportionable return to an unproved affirmation . num. 13 onely this i shall adde , that 't is certain that s. peter thus underslood the reiteration of christ's question , as a reproach of his three denialls ; the text saith , peter was grieved , because he said unto him the third time , lovest thou me ? which sure he would not have been , if he had looked on it , as an introduction to so great a preferment , as it must be , if the supremacy and vniversal pastorship of the church were by those words conferred on him . sect. ix . of the peculiarity of the power given to s. peter . num. 1 to this head of discourse about the power of the keyes follows a second exception in these words , num. 2 again he would perswade the world that the catholick church holdeth , none had the keyes but s. peter , calling it a peculiarity and inclosure of s. peter , as if the other apostles had them not , which is a calumnie . num. 3 how far i have been in this matter from calumniating the whole catholick church , or any one member of it , will appear by this brief review of what is there said , it is this , the power of the keyes is promised s. peter , mat. 16. but to him that from hence , i. e. from the promising it to him singly in that place , pretends this donative and consequent power as a peculiarity and inclosure of peter's , two considerations are there offered , and thought sufficient to supersede any such conclusion . num. 4 here certainly a bare supposition will not be the accusing or consequently accusing falsly , i. e. calumniating of any . if no man say this , besides my losing my pains in superseding such a ( but possible ) conclusion , there is no other harm done . onely i shall demand , is that promise of the keyes to saint peter , mat. 16. made use of by a romanist to prove christ's promise of some special power to s. peter , which was not promised to the other apostles ? if this gentleman answer , no ; then 1. i must inferre , that this gentleman is no romanist , because in this very page he mentions the first words of this text , tues petrus , as one of the two most considerable texts of scripture , fit to be alledged for s. peter's supremacy . 2. i shall conclude from this his present supposed negation , together with his own words in the last paragraph , that the words of christ , ioh. 21. feed my sheep &c. ] were not the instating of any power on s. peter , which was not common also to the rest of the apostles , for those words ioh. 21. were , saith he , a special performance , answerable to that promise of the keyes to peter , mat. 16. as a special promise , and consequently if there were nothing in that promise peculiar to s. peter , there was nothing in that performance peculiar to him . and so neither he nor any romanist must henceforth conclude any thing for s. peter from either of those particular addresses of christ to him , mat. 16. or ioh. 21. which they will not equally yeild from thence to all the other apostles ; and then that will more compendiously perform what i by a greater circuit of considerations indevoured to doe , i. e. supersede all the romanists conclusions from one or both these places ; for certainly if they pretend not to inferre somewhat for s. peter , which is not by them equally granted to all the rest of the apostles , all that those texts will be able to doe , is to confute the presbyterie , not to establish the papacie , no more being from hence deducible for the bishop of rome the successor of one apostle , than for the severall other bishops , successours of the other apostles . num. 5 but if upon the sight of these consequences , he shall now say , that in this of mat. 16. 19. there is any thing , be it never so little ( so as to be capable of the phrase a special promise ) ensured upon s. peter , which was not elsewhere promised also to the other apostles , i shall then conclude , that it seems i have not calumniated him , or the church which he defends , in saying that they make this power a peculiarity and inclosure of saint peter , for so it must be , if it belong to him and not to others . num. 6 and 't is not sufficient to say that the power of the keyes was common to him with the other apostles , but yet some other special power was there reserved to s. peter , for of that specialty , whatsoever it is , my present dilemma proceeds , and desires to be informed , whether any romanist conclude it from that text of mat. 16. and if he doe not , then the inconveniences will presse him , which i have here mentioned . if he doe then i shall now conclude anew ( not that the catholick church , but ) that this catholick gentleman holds that which he will not be able to prove , because there is not the least minute portion of power promised to him in that 16 chap : which is not elsewhere promised to all the apostles ; peter is called a stone , on which the church shall be built , and to peter the keyes are promised ; and the twelve apostles are in like manner , and all equally twelve foundation-stones of the same building , and the keyes are equally promised to all them . and this being there proved at large § . 21. and the probations extended , not onely to the power of the keyes , but ( after ) to the compellation of tues petrus ( and they will be extensible to all the most diminutive imaginary fractions of either of those powers ) i shall farther conclude , that whatsoever he shall now return to this dilemma , will equally secure me from having calumniated either him , or the church maintained by him . sect. x. sitting on twelve thrones , mat. 19. num. 1 his third exception to this chap : is to another interpretation of mine , which it seems hath not the luck to approve it self to him , thus , num. 2 i cannot passe without noting another odde interpretation of scripture , in his 20 sect. out of mat. 19. speaking of the twelve thrones at the day of judgment , he explicates , to rule or preside in the church . num. 3 i doe acknowledge to understand the twelve thrones , mat. 19. of the apostles ruling and presiding in the church , and s. augustine long before so understood it , and if christ's sitting on the throne of his glory may be the interpretation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whether it be rendred in the regeneration , or in the resurrection , meaning thereby christ's resurrection and ascension to the throne of his glory , there will then be no difficulty so to understand it , that when christ was gone to heaven , these should succeed him in the government of his church on earth , and so ( as the phylarchae ruled and judged the severall tribes of israel ) exercise judicature , binde and loose , excommunicate and absolve in the church , no one having the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , any more than of order , among them . num. 4 but this gentleman gives no reason for preferring any other interpretation , onely calls mine an odde one , and when i have replied first , that this place comes in ex abundanti , onely as it is ( being thus interpreted ) in concord with that other of mat. 16. & 18. and therefore secondly , it is not an odde one , and thirdly , the cause in hand will stand as firm , though this interpretation should be found to have no truth in it : fourthly , that my interpretation is reconcileable with his , and therefore his , if granted , will not be exclusive of mine , they that shall judge the world hereafter may for some time have presided in the church , and so also judged here ; fifthly , that this place , and the grounds of this interpretation are * elsewhere insisted on at large , i shall need adde no more to this single dislike of his , in this place . sect. xi . the equivalence of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . twelve foundation-stones . num. 1 he concludes with some shew of dislike of what i had said to the vulgar place of tues petrus , thus , num. 2 his quibling about the word is so light a thing , as it is not worth consideration , the sense being plain , that upon peter the church was built specially , though not with exclusion of others . num. 3 what i said of the equivalence and perfect identity of the words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for a stone , seemed to me particularly usefull to the understanding of the meaning of christ's speech , when he said , he would build his church on this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. this stone . for not to mention what hath by divers of the antients been said of that text , applying it not to the person of s. peter , but to the faith , where of he then had newly made confession , i was here willing to grant the romanist the utmost that he could pretend to , viz : that the person of peter was that petra or stone , on which christ promised to build his church : and why this gentleman should be so unwilling to be gratified , or why the setting down the bare notation of the greek word , should deserve his reproach , and be called quibling or levity , i professe i can render no reason but his haste , which permitted him not to consider either the undeniable truth , or his own advantages from what was said . num. 4 the force of my answer lay in another branch of that fourth section , viz : that this stone , from whence peter had his name , peculiarly relating to a building , and so being to be considered as a foundation stone , not onely he , but all the rest of the apostles were herein made equall with peter , being all partakers of this common appellation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 twelve foundations , apoc. 21. 14. and those by circumstances in that text manifested to have an equal proportion of power and province assigned to each of them . and to this there is nothing here answered by this gentleman , and his unprovoked quarrel at that , which was said concerning the nature of the word , is an indication that he had nothing more to object to it . num. 5 when therefore he saith , that on peter the church was built especially , i demand what he means by specially ? if no more than that he was one special person , on whom the church was built , then i grant it , and reply , that so was john , and so was andrew , and so was every other of the twelve , a special foundation-stone of the church . but if by [ specially . ] he mean in an extraordinary , or more eminent manner , than any of the other apostles , then i answer , 1. that christ's telling him he was a stone on which he would build his church , implies no such matter , the other apostles each of them are by christ , in vision to s. john , affirmed to be foundations of this building , as well as he ; 2. that among foundation-stones there is but one , that hath any eminence above others , and that is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the chief or head-corner-stone , and that title belongs not to s. peter ( as neither to any other apostle ) but onely to christ himself , ephes . 2. 20. and so still nothing belongs to peter in this matter of being a stone or foundation , which doth not equally appear to belong to those others , as well as him . and so much for the vindicating of the evidences set down in the fourth chapter . chap. v. an answer to the exceptions made to the fift chapter . sect. i. of slight passing over pasce oves , and tues petrus . num. 1 the first thing he here excepts against , is my too slight passing over two , which he thinks the most considerable texts , to support the supremacie of s. peter , in these words , num. 2 in the fift chapter he lightly passeth over the two most considerable texts of scripture fit to be alledged for s. peter's supremacie , viz : feed my sheep , and , thou art peter : because they have no appearance , and have been often answered : why no appearance ? because he and his fellows say so , and as if being so often repeated was not as likely to shew the answer was naught , as the answering to impeach the ob●ecter : but who understands the principles of catholick faith , knows , that as well for other points of our faith , as for this of s. peter's supremacy we relie not onely upon such places of scripture . num. 3 for this of the light passing over those two places of scripture , i think i can give a very reasonable account , 1. from his own words p. 10. where he tells me that i am mistaken in thinking that the catholick ought to prove that the pope hath an universal primacy , for if he be not obliged to prove it , if the right pretended depend wholly upon possession , why should not i make haste , through those proofs , which some have ex abundanti ( as to him it seems ) made use of . num. 4 secondly , i did in the simplicity of my heart verily believe ( what here is recited from me ) that those two texts had so very little appearance of strength in them , and this so often manifested by the variety of answers made to them by our writers , that no romanist would in earnest have laid such weight on them , as to require of me a more punctual answer to them , than i had before given in the former chapter . there i had evidenced that the whole world was not s. peter's province , but onely one portion of one part of the world , the jewish believers in antioch and rome &c. the gentile christians in those very cities being under s. paul , and the jewish of other conntreys under other apostles , those of asia under john &c. num. 5 this to my understanding made it evident , that in case christ's pasce oves &c. feed my sheep and my lambs , were granted to be a form of commission , instating of power on him , it must yet be restrained to his particular province , so as to leave other his fellow apostles their provinces also , and not extended to an vniversal pastorship . num. 6 but then when this farther consideration was behinde , that indeed this of pasce oves ] was not the form of commission to s. peter , but that in the former chapter , joh. 20. 21. as my father sent me , so send i you &c. and that to s. peter in common with the rest of the apostles , and not the least indication of any branch of power appropriated to him ( on which i have already insisted in this reply , though in that tract of schisme i did not think it necessary ) i hope i may have pardon for not returning to a strict survey of it in that fift chapter . num. 7 as for that of tues petrus , that was the very text wherein the donation of the keyes was promised to s. peter , mat. 16. 18. and that had particularly been examined in both parts of it , both as to the keyes , and the compellation , in the fourth chap : and the keyes promised him , manifested by other texts to belong equally to all the other apostles , and so the compellation of stone , or ( which is all one , as was there shewed ) foundation , or foundation-stone in the building of the church , bestowed equally upon the rest of the twelve apostles also . and so considering what i had already done my self , and what others had done much more largely , there remained little appearance of force in those texts , which might suggest to me a more diligent survey of them . and all these together , if not two of them alone , were a competent reason of passing lightly over them in that fift chapter , where i was ingaged in a new stage , i. e. of not returning afresh , and loco non suo , to a yet larger consideration of them . num. 8 i should now from this notice of his displeasure indevour to pacifie him by reforming my former omission , and enter upon a yet more solemn survey of these two texts , but that i see him already resolved not to trust his cause to the support which those texts can afford him , telling me in the close , that he relies not onely on such places of scripture , and if i should dwell longer upon them , i should be thought impertinent , and again reprehended , as forgetting what matter i handle , and therefore till he please to tell me how farre he relies on them , and shew me that i have not yet removed them from being a foundation so farre to be relied on , i shall spare mine own and the readers pains , and flatter my self , that i have said much more to invalidate any conclusion , which he shall inferre to his advantage from these two places , than he hath yet said in my hearing , to confirm his pretensions from both or either of them . sect. ii. the bishop of antioch's title from succession to s. peter equal to the bishops of rome . peter formed a church there . his dying at rome no argument . num. 1 after his velitation he now proceeds to the weightier impression , excepting first to an argument taken from the primogeniture of antioch , thus , num. 2 next he urgeth that if the succession to s. peter were the base of the popes supremacy , antioch should be the chief see , because s. peter sat there , wherein to omit his first and second question , whereof the first is untrue , i answer to the third negatively , that the constituting a church and bishop at antioch , before at rome , did conferre no privilege extraordinary on that church , and the reason is clearly deduced out of his second quaere , because it was before rome , for he could not give any such authority , but by divesting himself , since there cannot be two heads to one body , and therefore this authority and privilege of s. peter can rest and be no where but where he died . num. 3 in this matter i must first premise what i had warned the reader of in that 5 chap. § . 2. that what i there produced against the power of the bishop of rome , under the notion of successour to s. peter , was perfectly ex abundanti , more than needed , the whole matter being sufficiently concluded in the former chapter , which concerned s. peter's person , and had shewed that s. peter himself had no vniversal pastorship belonging to him , or supremacy over any other apostle , from whence it was evidently consequent , that to his successour , as such , no such power pertained . num. 4 this being premised , i did not pretend , that what should then follow , should proceed with that evidence as to demonstrate again what was so sufficiently cleared already , onely to those , whose curiosity was not satisfied , when their reason was , i proposed some considerations , which pretended to no more than this , that beside that peter had no supremacy , there were also other defects in the bishop of rome's tenure , particularly this , that he did no more succeed s. peter , than the bishop of antioch did , nay , that s. peter having left a successour bishop at antioch , before he did at rome , the bishop of antioch had in a manner the primogeniture , and by that , as good ( if not a better ) title to praeeminence , as any the bishop of rome had , upon that tenure of succession from s. peter . num. 5 now to this part of discourse which pretended but to probability , there can lie no exception , unlesse it appear either to be untrue in any part , or in the whole lesse probable than what is offered by the romanist for the other side ; and this is now to be examined . num. 6 and 1. saith he , the first question is untrue ; but he is so reserved as not to expresse his reason for so saying . i shall therefore give my reasons to the contrary , 1. because a question cannot be untrue , all truth and falshood being in affirmations and negations ( and asking a question , or proposing a thing to consideration whether it be so or no , is neither of those ) in answering not in asking of questions . num. 7 secondly , because this question being resolved into an affirmation , viz : that peter as truely planted a church at antioch , and left a successour bishop there , as he is or can be supposed to have done at rome , it relies on the uncontradicted testification of antient writers . num. 8 by planting a church i mean not that he was the first that preacht the gospel at antioch ( though leo the great seems to affirm it , ( in antiochenà ecclesiâ primùm praedicante beato apostolo petro , christianum nomen exortum est , ep : 53. ) and from thence pleads the right of precedence to belong to that church , ( in paternae constitutionis ordine perseveret ) against anatholius bishop of constantinople ) for that seems by s. luke to be attributed to those that were scattered abroad upon the persecution that rose about s. stephen , act. 11. 19. but his forming them into a church or regular assembly . and that so he did , and left euodius bishop there , and after his death ignatius the martyr , is elsewhere manifested at large , and i shall not repeat it , but onely adde one testimony ( which i suppose will be authentick with him ) of leo the great , bishop of rome , ep : 62. to maximus bishop of antioch , bidding him be mindfull of that doctrine , quam praecipuus apostolorum omnium , beatissimus petrus per totum mundum quidem uniformi praedicatione , sed speciali magisterio in antiochenâ & romanâ urbe fundavit . where it is the clear affirmation of that pope , that s. peter founded the doctrine of christ first in antioch , then in rome by a special authority , or power , or magisterie , which he had in those two cities , more than in the rest of the world . and so i cannot guesse what untruth there could be in that affirmation , if it had been such , which was but a consideration , or question , as he calls it . num. 9 next , he saith , that s. peter's constituting a church and bishop at antioch , before he did the like at rome , is a proof that he conferred no extraordinary privilege on antioch , and renders the reason for it , because he could not doe it without divesting himself , and consequently this privilege must rest no where but where he died , and consequently at rome onely , because he died there . num. 10 that he left any extraordinary privilege at antioch i doe not believe , any more than he did so at rome , and therefore i cannot be required to prove any more than this , that it is as reasonable for me to affirm it of antioch upon the title of succession , as for him to assume it of rome , upon the same title . num. 11 from christ there is nothing that will fix it at rome , rather than at antioch , and in the law of nations concerning inheritances , nothing is or can be applied to this purpose . it must needs be then from the free act of s. peter's will , whatsoever is pretended to . and in respect of that 't is sure as reasonable to believe , that he which planted a church , and placed a bishop first in one , after in another city , should delegate the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 double portion , the greater dignity and privileges to the former as to the latter . if the right of primogeniture be no right in this matter , yet sure the younger sister hath neither law , nor custome , that the inheritance should belong to her . num. 12 and for his own reason here offered , that it cannot belong to the elder , that is no reason ; for s. peter might doe , as christ did , make an assignation of power in his life time , fix it by promise , yet not devest himself of it till his death , and if s. peter had done so , if at his planting a bishop at antioch , on consideration that in that city they were first called christians , he had decreed that after his own death that bishop should succeed to all that authority , which he had received from christ , with power to communicate it to any , i shall ask this gentleman whether he might not have done it without either devesting himself whilst he lived , or making two heads to one body , or whether his bare dying at rome , would have invalidated any such former act of his , in case he had done so . if it would , there must then be more owing to his death than to his life , to his martyrdome than to his preaching or ordaining of bishops , that this privilege belongs to rome . and then again jerusalem , where christ himself died , will by that title of his blood shed there , have a more unquestionable right , than that city where peter did but faintly transcribe that copie , which had in a more eminent manner been set him by christ . num. 13 lastly , if by this argument of rome's being the place where peter died , the supremacy had belonged to that see , precisely or peculiarly , how could it be transferred to avenion , as we know it was , and there continued for some time ? but i shall no longer insist on such fiction of case , as this , if that had been which never was , what then would certainly have followed , whether if s. peter had been vniversal pastor , it must eo ipso be concluded that his successour of rome , and not at antioch was such after him , when it hath been rendred evident in the former chapter , that s. peter had no such supremacy . sect. iii. the act of the councell of chalcedon ; of the ground of rome's precedence . the safety of the church reconcileable with removing the chief see. of the bishop of constantinople being ashamed of that act . no tumult in the councell . the story of it . num. 1 the next dislike is to my deriving the original of that precedence which belongs to rome , as the councel of chalcedon had derived it , thus , num. 2 then he tells you that the dignity or precedence of the bishop of rome is surely much more fitly deduced by the councel of chalcedon from this , that rome was then the imperial city , or ordinary residence of the emperour : a very wise judgment , that the quality upon which the unity , that is the safety of the church vniversal relies , should be planted upon a bottome fallible and subject to fail , but the resolution was so shamefull , that the very patriarch was ashamed , and imputed it to his ambitious clergie , who how tumultuary and unruly they were , is to be seen in the acts of the councel . num. 3 here two objections are made to the wisdome of that act or judgment of that councel , and i that foresaw it would be thus rejected by him , and from thence observed how little councels are considered by them , when they define not as they would have them , and therefore laid no more weight on that canon , than the romanists very rejecting it allowed me , might now spare the pains of defending the judgment of that councel . yet it is so easie to return answer in few words to his two objections , that i shall not decline doing it . num. 4 to the first , that the precedence of rome , which there i speak of , being a primacy onely of dignity and order , and not of power , is no such quality , on which the unity and safety of the church relies . for how can that be concerned what bishop sits uppermost , gives the first or last suffrage in a councel ? this gentleman thinks of a supremacy of power , when he thus speaks , but that he cannot but know is denied by us to be placed in any one bishop , and therefore must not imagine me to assigne the original of that , to which i deny a being . and it matters not though he say i am injurious in denying it , for besides that that is petitio principii on his side , to say so , t is also certain that the question now betwixt us in this paragraph , is not whether i am just in denying that supremacy , but whether it be more than a primacy of order , which i divolve to this original . num. 5 nay if i had spoken of the supremacy it self , and fixed it on a bottome so farre fallible , as that it might be removed by the change of empires from one city to another , if it were but resolved that the supreme ecclesiastical power , and so the fountain of unity should follow the imperial seat , i see not why the safety of the church might not by this means be provided for . num. 6 let it but be judged of in little first , as it is easily supposeable . suppose the church of england 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nay for argument's sake , suppose there were no other church but that of england , and suppose there were a supremacy in one bishop , in him , whosoever were the bishop of that city , where the royal throne were placed , and suppose that that were for the present removed to yorke , and so that the bishop of yorke were the supreme bishop , and by that means the unity and safety of the church competently provided for , i shall then demand , in case the royall seat should be removed to winchester , could there be any question , but the supreme episcopal see would be removed so too ? and might not all appeals be made from thenceforth to winchester , and the safety of the church be as well provided for by this way , as by it's being fixt unmoveably at yorke ? num. 7 the primacy we know hath oft thus been removed , and never more inconvenience come of it , than by s. peter's see being removed to avenion . and if any supremacy belonged to any succession of bishops over the whole world , and that were never mutable , but by the removal of the emperial seat , a certain , illustriously visible thing , it is not easily discernible , how this should more prejudice the safety of the church , than the change of that power from one bishop that dies , to his successour in the same see. but this is still much more than needed to have been said . num. 8 as for the patriarch's ( i suppose he must mean of constantinople ) being ashamed of that resolution of that councel , and imputing it to his ambitious clergie , ● . he gives us not any testimony for this , onely saith , that in the acts of that councel may be seen how tumultuary and unruly they were . and to that affirmation , and that not very pertinent roof of it , i have two things to say , which indeed the acts of that councel , and the epistles both of anatolius bishop of constantinople , and leo bishop of rome may assure us to have truth in them . 1. that if by being ashamed be meant retracting or renouncing this resolution of the councel , it then hath no truth in it , that the patriarch was ashamed . num. 9 for ● . it is so evident that of all leo's reprehensions in this matter of the primacy adjudged him by that councel , anatolius chose to take no notice , and to return no answer , that leo tells the emperor of it , ep : 59. maluit praedictus antistes meam gratulationem tacere , quam suam ambitum publicare , and chargeth it upon anatolius himself , that he made no reply to what he had said to him ; ad quas cum non rescriberes ipse te à colloquii nostri consortio separâsti , by not making any return to my admonitory letters , thou hast thy self separated thy self from the communion of our discourse . ep : 71. num. 10 't is true indeed when leo charged it upon him , as an act of ambition and pride , that he had procured that canon to be made ( as he doth at large , * ep : 53. making it an invasion of the bishop of alexandria and antioch his right setled by the councel of nice , and so in his * epistle to martian the emperour , and † another to the empresse pulcheria ) anatolius writing to him upon occasion , tells him that the clergie of the church of constantinople , and * not he , brought this matter before the councel , and therefore leo needed not be so angry with him , and complain so sharply against his ambition . num. 11 and this i suppose is it which this gentleman must referre to , if there be the least colour of truth in his suggestion ; but sure this disclaiming of pride or ambition in what was done , regularly , according to a long continued custome , and the canon of the councel of constantinople is much more the justifying his innocence , than the acknowledgment of any fault , an act of confidence and assurance , no indication either of guilt or shame , no disowning the dignity confirmed to him by the councel . num. 12 many evidences there are in the story of those times that the bishop of constantinople did no way reject this power and dignity , which that councel had confirmed to him ; t is annext to the acts of that councel , how he exercised it in an eminent manner on the patriarch of alexandria , leo the emperour having put wholly into his hands the judging of a great affair , and quieting a disturbance in that church , see the * third part of that councel of chalcedon . in which matter may be observed that in the epistle of the aegyptian bishops , and clergy of alexandria , in a re●itation of the bishops of the whole world , the first place being reserved to leo the bishop of rome , the second is given * regiae constantinopolis anatolio , to anatolius of constantinople the royal seat , and then follow basil of antioch , and juvenalis of jerusalem . num. 13 and indeed if it be but remembred , 1. that what was done here at chalcedon was for the main but the reciting and confirming what was done formerly at the councel of constantinople ( a judgment , saith * euagrius , that this matter was well-ordered already , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and what the bishop of constantinople held by custome before that councel also , * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a custome that had been long in force , and * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by a precedaneous custome &c. secondly , that this was done by this councel ( if their professions may be believed ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not so much to adde any thing to the see of constantinople , as to provide for the quiet of other metropoles in asia , pontus and thracia . thirdly , that the councel attested all this , and sent a relation of it to the bishop of rome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being perswaded that he being rightly informed would receive and confirm it , though his legates had obstinately opposed it . fourthly , that all the objections , which the pope or his legates had to it , were proposed and clearly answered in the * councel ; that of the contrariety of the canon to the decree of the councel of nice , by reading that decrce , and shewing that it was perfectly reconcileable to it ; that of invading the rights of the metropoles of asia , pontus and thracia , by the severall bishops of those regions being examined by the emperours proxies , whether they consented to it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by their own will , or by any necessity imposed on them , and their several cheerful answers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i subscribed willingly as in the presence of god , and the like ; to which if we adde the depression of the bishop of antioch , which * leo objects , it is likewise answered by maximus the bishop of antioch his subscription to this canon . lastly , that as this was enacted , by * baronius's own confession by 600 bishops , i. e. by the whole councel , not onely by a party of it , so the bishop of constantinople anatolius * subscribed it in the first place , and next after him the bishop of antioch , there will be no possibility of finding any truth in this gentleman's affirmation , that the patriarch was ashamed of this judgment of the councel . num. 14 it is much more reasonable to affirm on the other side , that the pope , though not leo , was ashamed of his opposing it , for within 30 years after , we finde felix he. of his own accord consenting to his primacy , and acknowledging acacius bishop of constantinople to have power over the bishops that were under him , ep : 1 and innocent iii. confirms it with a solemn constitution ap : antiqua : de privileg : that i adde not the establishment of it again by the councel of florence , sess : ult : in lit . vnion● . num. 15 as for the reason which is here offered to confirm the truth of his affirmation , it hath it self no truth in it , and so cannot be a reason of the affirmation . it is not true ; for there was no tumult nor unruliness in the councel , onely the pope's legates opposed the canon , and made their complaint to the judges , and were heard most regularly in all they could pretend , and at length the canon was defined by the chearfull consent of all but them . see the story of it in binius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : num. 16 after the passing of the canon , the legates , paschasinus and lucentius make their addresse to the judges , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that supplied the emperours place , who bad them speak what they would have ; they say , that yesterday , after the judges and they were risen , some things were done against the canons , and desire they may be read . that was appointed to be done ; but first aetius archdeacon of constantinople makes a relation , how after matters of faith agreed on , they proceeded according to the manner to some constitutions , in these they desired the legates to joyn with them , they refused saying , they had received comands from rome to do so , which being remonstrated to the judges they had bid the councel proceed , and hereupon the councel had unanimously decreed ; appealing to them all , whether it were not true , nothing being done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , clancularly or by stealth , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of course , regularly and canonically . then the canon was read , being a plain recitation of what was before done in the councel of constantinople , and then all the subscriptions follow . then the legates desire it may be inquired , whether none have subscribed by force , suggesting that the constantinopolitan canon was contrary to the nicene ; thereupon the canons were both read , and upon the judges appointment , they that were most concerned , the bishops of asia , pontus , and thracia , who were now brought under the patriarchate of constantinople , being supposed formerly to be free , were called out severally and asked whether they had acted under any force , and they severally professe the contrary . whereupon the judges summe up the business and conclude , that they had weighed all , and found that none had injury , the priviledges of the bishop of rome were preserved intire according to the canons , and that the bishop of new rome , constantinople , was to have equal priviledges with him , &c and this being their sense , they desire the whole councel to deliver theirs , and they all cried out , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this is a just sentence . this we all say , let this be consigned and confirmed , desiring they may now be dismiss'd every man to his home , and so the judges pronounce , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the synod hath confirmed all . num. 17 no dissent of any but of the legates , and that , it seems , went for nothing when the rest so universally consented ; so farre is this suggestion from all shew of truth , that the clergy of constantinople were tumultuary and unruly . num. 18 if any the least unruliness there were , it was on the legate's part , who would thus stand out and complain without the least reason to doe so , not on the councels , which proceeded according to the precedent custome and canon , and such grounds to which neither the pope nor his legate did then so much as object any thing , viz : the same title by which rome it self ascended to her greatness , * by being the imperial city . sect. iv. the popes judging in his own cause . his legates suffrages in councels , of what necessity . antioch's equality to rome . constantinople preferred to no more but a patriarchy . the dignity of the bishop of rome meerly from rome's being the imperial city . num. 1 in this matter of that councel of chalcedon two exceptions more he offers ( which are not so weighty but they may be put together ) in these words , num. 2 secondly , he cavilleth at the privilege of supreme magistracy , calling it a method of security beyond all amulets : then he tells us of antioch's being equal to rome , and that constantinople desired but the same privileges , against the very nature of the story ; for constantinople being then a patriarchy , if that made it equal to rome , as this doctor feigneth , what did it pretend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for ? seeing the doctor assumes before that all patriarchs were equall , neither rome it self , and lesse antioch had cause to complain . num. 3 for the former of these , which he calls my cavilling at the privilege of supreme magistracy , that sure is but gratis dictum , and a begging of that , which in the whole controversie he knows to be most denied him . num. 4 that he , that assumes a supreme magistracy to himself , should by no means be concluded to be an assumer , till he make his own confession of it , and give his suffrage to his condemnation , i mentioned , and cannot but look upon still , as a method of perfect security , beyond all amulets and defensatives ; for how can it be imagined , that he , that contests a right , should at the same time acknowledge it not to belong to him , when he knows that nothing but this confession is sufficient to deprive him of it ? as for any such priviledge belonging to supreme magistracy in generall , or any way applicable to the bishop of rome , in relation to a general councel , it may be worth considering a while . num. 5 and first for supreme magistracy in general , this privilege doth not extend to all matters . in a contest of particular right between a supreme magistrate and a subject , brought before any legal judicature , 't is certain the supreme magistrate may be concluded without his own suffrage or consent , and agreeable to that it was , when the question was brought in this councel before the judges by the complaint of the pope's legates , whether the canon were the day before , after the legate's departure , duly passed or no , for if it were not so , what needed this complaint to the iudges , the bare absence , and so not consenting of the legates had been sufficient to cassate and annull the acts : whatsoever magistracy therefore was then pretended to by the bishop of rome , this privilege doth not then seem to have belonged to it , that his , or his legate's suffrages should be necessary to the passing every canon . num. 6 that they might have liberty to come to the councell , that nothing were done clancularly or by stealth , at a time when they knew not of it , that no force were used on those that were present , nor the like to hinder the presence of any , this was necessary to the freedome , and so to the very being of a councel , and consequently to the validity of every act thereof , and accordingly on these heads it was that the legates in their complaint to the iudges insisted ( and so doth * baronius , styling that lost action of that councel , spuriam & clandestinam , & ab anatolio furtim adjectam , a spurious clandestine action stollen in by anatolius ) as also , on the authority of the nicene canons , which they pretended to be infringed by that latter of constantinople , on which this of chalcedon was founded , and this they thought sufficient to cassate this act , but for this of the want of the pope's or his legate's suffrage , that it should invalidate that decree , it is not so much as pretended by the legates , in the relations of the passages of that councel . num. 7 and therefore according to that saying of s. hierome , put into their canon law , si authoritas quaeritur , orbis major est urbe , if authority be looked for , the whole world is more than the one city of rome , it is the resolution of * almain , merito concilium chalcedonense leoni resistenti praevaluisse , that the councel of chalcedon did well in standing out against pope leo , and did justly prevail against him . num. 8 this amulet it seems had not virtue to stand him in so much stead , as * baronius is pleased to phansie , setting out the power and greatness of pope leo by this , that he did alone cassate what this councel had decreed by the suffrages of 600 bishops . which how well it consists with his former affirmation , that this canon was spurious and clandestine , and stollen in by anatolius , i shall not here examine . 't is sure , if the popes authority were so soveraign , the act needed not have been made spurious first , to qualifie it for the cassation . but this of the power or superiority of a pope over an oecumenical councel , is a question not so necessary here to be debated , unlesse what this gentleman was pleased to mention of the privilege of supreme magistracy , had been indevoured some way to be proved by him . num. 9 next he quarrels my saying that antioch was equall to rome , and that constantinople desired but the same privileges , and this he saith is against the very nature of the story . num. 10 that antioch had the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equal privileges with rome , so farre as to the dignity of a patriarchate &c. ( allowing to rome the primacy of order and dignity ) i thought was competently concluded from the pope's pretensions against that canon of chalcedon , making it an invasion of the rights of antioch , and as derogatory to that as to rome ; and so still it seems to me , for if antioch had not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equal privileges with rome , how could constantinople's aspiring to equal privileges with rome , be as derogatory to antioch as to rome ? but i need not this help from leo's argument , the thing asserted by me , is not denied , that i know of , by any romanist , viz : that antioch had the dignity of a patriarchate , for that is all that i expresse my self to mean by antioch's having 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equal privileges with rome , and i that maintain ( as this gentleman truely saith i doe ) that all patriarchs are equal ( in respect of power , differing onely in order or precedence ) cannot be imagined to mean any thing else by it . num. 11 so again that constantinople desired no more but the privileges of a patriarch , and that that is the meaning of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equal privileges , is by me said in opposition to acquiring any ordinary jurisdiction over other churches , and this instead of being contrary to the nature of the story , is directly agreeable to the whole course of it , and to the expresse words of the canon , which defines , that as the city of constantinople was honoured with the empire and senate , and injoyed equal privileges with old imperial rome , so the church of constantinople ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) should be exalted to the same height with that , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , having the next place after it , adding that the metropolitans ( and none else of asia , pontus and thraeia , &c. should be ordained by the bishop of constantinople , the bishops of each of those provinces being left to be ordained by their respective metropolitans ; this is so plain that there can be no need of farther proof of it . num. 12 and for this gentleman's objection , by way of question , that constantinople being then a patriarchy , if that made it equal with rome , for what did it pretend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i answer 1. that constantinople being by custome , and by act of the councel held in that city , a patriachate already , it sought not to acquire any new advantage or increase by this canon of chalcedon , but onely to continue what already it had . num. 13 this again appears by the story , where that canon of constantinople was produced and read , as the foundation on which this new canon was built , and so by the expresse words in the beginning of the canon , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. following constantly the definitions of the holy fathers , and knowing the canon newly read of the 150 bishops assembled in the reign of the emperour theodosius at the imperial city constantinople or new rome . and agreeably euagrius sets down the story , that in this councel of chalcedon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it was thought just or determined that the constantinopolitan see 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was rightly and duly placed next after rome . num. 14 and when this gentleman assumes , that if this were so , the neither rome it self , and lesse antioch had cause to complain , i shall most willingly joyn with him in it , being no way obliged by my pretensions to justifie the pope or his legates dislike to that canon . and for antioch i am sure enough that the bishop thereof , maximus , though he had received an epistle from the pope to exasperate and perswade him to stand upon his right , did very readily subscribe it , setting his name and consent next after the bishop of constantinople , as hath formerly been set down out of the story . num. 15 and if antioch did so , who was the loser by it , if precedence signifie any thing , i confesse i can render no cause ( unlesse it be the pompejúsve parem , impatience of any equal ) why the bishop of rome , who lost not so much as precedence by this advancement or confirmation of dignity to the bishop of constantinople , should be so obstinately and implacably offended at it . num. 16 thus have i answered every attempt and tittle of exception offered by this gentleman in this matter , and have now leisure to complain , that the one thing that i desired to be taken notice of from this canon , is not so much as considered , or at all replied to by him , viz : that the dignity that old rome had by antient canons in oyed was given it upon this account , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because rome was the imperial seat ; which as it is the proof of my whole pretension , that the pope was not vniversal pastor , upon title of his succession from s. peter , ( for if whatsoever he had , the councels gave it him , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith the canon , and gave it him as bishop of the imperial see , then sure 't was no inheritance from s. peter ) so it was truely observed out of the story of the councel of chalcedon , and may be seen both in the legate's complaint to the judges , and in the epistles of leo to the emperour martianus , the empresse pulcheria , anatolius bishop of constantinople and maximus of antioch , and his instructions to his legates , that he never made any exception to that branch of the canon that thus derived the original of his greatnesse from the imperial dignity of the city , never thought himself injured by this way of setting down his title . sect. v. of the canon of ephesus . the power of metropolitans , of primates . the case of the archbishop of cyprus no peculiar case . the deduction thence against the popes vniversal pastorship . of the popes tenure by the institution of christ . num. 1 the next exception concerns the canon of the councel of ephesus , thus , num. 2 as for the canon of ephesus touching the archbishop of cyprus , it plainly sheweth that the metropolitans were subordinate to the patriarchs , seeing this case of cyprus was a peculiar excepted case , the reason given doth shew that the superiority of patriarchs was by custome received from their ancestors , contrary to that which the doctor before affirmed , however it is still nothing to the purpose , because the authority , which we say belongs to the pope , is neither patriarchal , nor derived from any institution or custome of the church , but from the institution of christ . num. 3 this canon of ephesus , saith he , plainly shews that metropolitans were subordinate to patriarchs , seeing this of cyprus was a peculiar excepted case . to this i see not how any pretensions of ours oblige me to make any return , yet because it may be subject to some mistake for want of explicating , i shall clear that whole matter by these three propositions . num. 4 first , that the controversie , which occasioned that canon , was this , whether the bishop of constance , metropolitan of the province of cyprus , was to be ordained by the patriarch of antioch , or ( without seeking abroad ) by his own synod , the bishops of cyprus . thus is the state of the question set down in the councels , tom. 2. p. 670. at the beginning of the 7 action . discussa est controversia inter rheginum episcopum constantiae cypri , & johannem antiochenum , qui sibi cyprias ecclesias subdere moliebatur . the controversie was discussed between rheginus bishop of constance of cyprus , and john of antioch , who endevoured to bring the cypriotes churches into subjection to himself . num. 5 secondly , that the antient custome had been favourable to rheginus his pretension , and so the claim of antioch is defined 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a thing innovated against the ecclesiastical lawes , and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that which , by the example , or president , would concern the liberty of all churches . cod : can : eccl : un : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 num. 6 thirdly , that the councel defined on the cypriots side , that according to the canous , and antient custome , the bishops of cyprus should retein their previlege inviolable , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ordaining their bishops within , and by themselves , and consequently that it was an act of assuming , and invasion in the bishop of antioch , to claim 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make any ordinations within cyprus . and what was thus adjudged in the case of the cypriots , was by that councel in the same canon thought fit to be extended in like manner to all other provinces ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same shall be observed also through all dioceses and provinces every where ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. that no bishop shall meddle with another province , which hath not from the beginning been under him , i. e. under his predecessors power . and so there is no truth in what is here suggested , that this of cyprus was a peculiar excepted case ; it certainly , by the expresse words of the canon , belonged to all other metropolitans and their provinces over all the world , that neither bishop of antioch nor of rome was to meddle with any ordinations except in their own particular provinces , but the synod of the bishops of each province , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to make the ordinations of their bishops by themselves . num. 7 what he adds of the superiority of patriarchs by custome received from their ancestors , first , that the reason given in that ephesine canon doth shew it ; secondly , that it is contrary to that which the doctor before affirmed ; thirdly , that it is still nothing to the purpose in hand , of the authority of the pope ; hath not , that i can discern , any truth in any part of it . for as to the first , whatsoever superiority patriarchs be acknowledged to have , there is no word of mention concerning it in that canon , neither was there any occasion to define any thing of it ; it was the synod , and bishops of cyprus their right , that was invaded , and of that onely that canon speaks , devolving it to original custome , and canons , and so for all other metropolitans . but that is not the superiority of patriarchs . secondly , for my affirmation , certainly it was never such as could be deemed contrary either to that ephesine canon about ordination of their metropolitans , or that due superiority , which by canons or customes doth belong to primates or patriarchs ; what this is i have often set down , and need not again repeat it . num. 8 lastly , for the application of this canon to the present affair of the vniversal pastorship of the bishop of rome , thus much is evident , first , that all provinces every where , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were concluded by this canon , that they should ordain their bishops within themselves , and then i pray how can the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 power of ordaining all belong to the bishop of rome , and ordination and jurisdiction going together , how can he have the vniversal jurisdiction , or which is all one the vniversal pastorship ? num. 9 secondly , if the pope his authority be not patriarchal , as this gentleman here saith , then till he hath proved that it is more than patriarchal , and answered all that is said to the contrary in that tract of schisme , that which is by the ephesiue canon judged in order to the patriarch of antioch , will also conclude him . num. 10 and thirdly , that which is held by the institution of christ being certainly derived 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the beginning , must needs be included in the words of this canon , which requires that all should remain , as by custome ( immemorial ) from the beginning it had been , to which therefore we appeal , and inquire , whether cyprus was not as independent from rome at that time , as from antioch ; if not , how any such dependance at that time appears , or how is it imaginable there should be any such , when all provinces every where were to be ruled and ordered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by their own synod and bishops . num. 11 as for the tenure , by which the pope is now , in the close of this paragraph , clearly said to stand , not from any institution or custome of the church , but from the institution of christ . first , this is more than ever this gentleman would acknowledge before , telling us p. 14. that who understands the principles of the catholick faith , knows they relie not onely upon such places of scripture , as , thou art peter , and feed my sheep , from whence i thought my self obliged to conclude they relied not onely on christ his institution , for that i suppose must be set down in some , and if in any , sure in those scriptures , and in another place , that i forget my self when i think a catholick ought to prove that the hope hath an vniversal primacie ( referring all to his possession ) whereas in case he pretend to hold by the institution of christ ( as here he saith ) certainly he is obliged to produce that institution , and that is to prove his pretension . num. 12 but then secondly , that there is indeed any such thing , that the pope holds by institution of christ , is still the thing denied by us , and the contrary , i think , demonstrated in the former chapter , and all the places producible for it , answered , and so it must not be here begged or assumed , without any word added for the proof of it . sect. vi. the exemption of justiniana prima , the several exceptions against this instance answered . num. 1 his next paragraph pretends to be answer to the evidence brought from the example of justiniana prima , which was by the emperour made independent from any other ecclesiastical power . his answer is this , num. 2 then he goes on with two examples , in which he would perswade us that justiniana prima , and carthage were made exempt cities by the emperour , and seeth not that his own instance giveth the answer , for as in the temporal donation , he doth not exempt them from his own subjection , so neither from the popes in spiritual , nor as much as giveth them the style of patriarchs ; though the bishop of constantinople in his own city ordinarily had it . num. 3 that justiniana prima was by justinian exempted from all others ( and so from the bishop of rome his ) iurisdiction ( and so carthage also , being invested with the same privileges ) i thought sufficiently proved by the plain words of the constitution , that for any differences that should befall in that province , the archbishop of that new erection from time to time , should decide them finally , nec ad alium quendam eatur , and they should go to no other for decision , or by way of appeal and so in the novell , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. he shall have under his own jurisdiction the bishops of dacia , &c. which what is it , but a perfect exemption and independency ? num. 4 the same appears also by the other part of the constitution , that concerning ordination of that archbishop , it was , as was said , to be done by his own synod of metropolitans . to which agrees that of the novell 131. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he must be ordained by his own synod . num. 5 to this the answer given here , and given , saith he , by my own instance , is no more than this , that as in the temporal donation he doth not exempt them from his own subjection , so neither from the popes in spiritual . but sure there is no force in this comparison ; for the not exempting him in temporal things from his own power , doth no way conclude a non-exemption from the pope ; when henry viii . removed the papal power out of this nation , no man thinks he divested himself of the regal ; the archbishop of canterbury was made independent , and exempt from the bishop of rome , but remained still subordinate to the king : so in like manner iustinian might doe , make instiniana a primacy , and yet leave the bishop and his whole province in the same subjection to the emperour , that before it had been ; and as this is very possible , so if it were not the plain truth of the fact , that must be made appear by the story , or by the investiture . num. 6 in that there is no sound of any word for the exempting that bishop from the imperial subjection , and so we cannot imagine , without any ground , that there was any such thing , but for ecclesiastical judicature and ordination , they are both distinctly specified , that he and his metropolitans should have them within themselves , without fetching them abroad from any other ; and so by that the bishop of rome is explicitly excluded from having any thing to doe there . num. 7 this farther appears , not onely by the matter of fact , for after the first archbishop was ordained by pope vigilius , his successors were constantly ordained by their own metropolitans , and not by the bishop of rome , but also by farther expresse words in the * novell , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the provinces subject to him he shall hold the place of the apostolical seat of rome , i. e. doe all within those provinces that the bishop of rome was wont to doe , before this primacy was erected , and this , it seems , by direct consent of vigilius then pope , as there it follows , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to what was defined by the holy father vigilius . num. 8 which words if they be conceived to denote no more than a deputation from the pope by which this power was held , and so be made use of as an argument to inferre his continued dependence on the see of rome , that will be found to be a mistake , the whole investiture giving the archbishop there an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a perfect freedome , and absolutenesse , to be head within his province , independent from all others . and should it by any other way appear that vigilius , who ordained the first bishop there ( as 't is sure he must be ordained by some body , and none fitter for it than the bishop of old rome ) did farther give him a deputation , as i see it affirmed ( but not by this gentleman ) both of vigilius , and after him of gregory , yet certainly this was but a formality , without any farther effect or influence on the investiture , the privileges of that see came to it meerly by the act of the emperour ( and that act was entred a part of the imperial law ) to which the supposed addition of the pope's deputation can be no prejudice ; and secondly , the bishop of carthage , which by that constitution is invested with the very same privileges by the emperour , is not pretended to have received any such deputation from the pope , and yet by virtue of the emperours act was freed from all former dependence , and injoyed the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the privilege of a metropolitan , in the same manner , as iustiniana did . num. 9 what this gentleman adds , that the emperour gave not so much as the style of patriarch to the bishop of iustiniana , though the bishop of constantinople in his own city ordinarily had it , will soon appear to signifie nothing ; for first , the power , not the title is that we speak of , and that may be had in plenitude , without the name ; the archbishop of cyprus was by the councel , of ephesus adjudged to have all power within himself , so as to go neither to antioch nor to rome for it , and yet was not raised to any higher title , than that of archbishop . num. 10 secondly , i suppose primate and patriarch to be perfectly all one , as to matter of power and dignity ; that the archbishop of constantinople and hierusalem , so styled in the antient canons , were yet ordinarily called patriarchs , was no injury to the patriarch of antioch , saith theod : balsamon , himself patriarch of antioch in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because of the identity of the honour . and accordingly in the councels the archbishop of constantinople , under that title is placed before the patriarch of antioch , yea and of alexandria , who yet by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 divine and holy writings ( i. e. the canons ) by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 traditions of the fathers , was styled pope , saith balsamon . and therefore for justiniana also this was sufficient ; it was made a primacy , and then it matters not , though it were not styled a patriarchy ; the exemption from rome and all other forreign power is all i pretend this city had , and of that there can be no question , whatsoever title belonged to it . num. 11 thirdly , this gentleman's saying that the bishop of constantinople had the title of patriarch in his own city , would make one believe that he had it not elsewhere , which yet it is notorious that he had , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; he and the archbishop of jerusalem were publickly called patriarchs , saith balsamon , and he renders the reason , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because the five patriarchs ( of which number they were two ) held the place of the head of the body , to wit , of the holy churches of god. but whatsoever the title were , it is still sure enough it had the power and dignity of a patriarchate , first by custome , then by canons of two general councels , constantinople and chalcedon ( for i suppose the setting it next and equal to rome , and before antioch and alexandria , will amount to this ) also by that very novell of justinian , where the privileges are conferred on justiniana , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the archbishop of new rome , constantinople , hath the next place after the apostolical see of old rome , and the precedence of honour before all others . and so much for the exceptions to the fift chapter . chap. vi. an answer to the exceptions made to the sixt chapter . sect. i. the plea for the popes power from the conversion of england , of acquiring of right by two titles . num. 1 the plea from plantation , which was considered in the sixt chapter , he now proceeds to , in these words , num. 2 in his sixt chapter he examineth another title peculiar to england , viz : that our nation was converted by mission from rome , and this is totally beside the question , for no man is so stupid as to pretend s. peter or the church of rome to have power over the vniversal church , because his successors converted england : but some pretend a special title of gratitude , the violation of which aggravateth the sin of schismatizing from the church of rome in our nation , yet no man , as farre as i can understand , thinks this latter obligation of so high a nature , as that for no occasion or never so great cause , it may not be dispensed with ; but onely presse it then when the benefit is slighted , or by colourable arguments to the contrary unworthily avoided : and yet this doctor quite mistaking the question frameth an argument , as full of words as empty of matter , affirming there cannot be two successive titles to possession of the same thing , telling us , that he who claimeth a reward as of his own labour and travel must disclaim a donation , &c. if any passed before , and that if a king have right by descent , he cannot claim any thing by conquest , by which you may see his understanding the law is not much more than his understanding of our principles . num. 3 what this gentleman here premiseth , that this plea from the conversion of this nation by mission from rome is not used by the romanist to prove us schismaticks , i have no reason to confute but shall from thence suppose that that sixt chapter might have been spared out of that little treatise , and our church competently justified by the precedent chapters ; and then all that i shall need added , is , first , that i hope what was by me added superfluously , above the necessities of our cause , will not destroy what was before said pertinently , and then as i shall onely have lost my pains , and there is no farther hurt done , so it must needs be very unnecessary for this gentleman to adapt any farther answers to that sixt chapter , when he hath once adjudged all that is there said to be totally beside the question . num. 4 secondly , that if others had been as prudent , as this gentleman , i had certainly spared that chapter , it being no interest of mine to invent pleas for the romanist , and although , as this gentleman hath pleased to set it , it be a competent stupidity , and that which i never thought any romanist guilty of , to make the conversion of england a plea to power over the vniversal church , yet england , and not the vniversal church , being the subject of our question , there is not quite so much stupidity in it , to plead the popes power over england from the supposed conversion of england , and certainly i did not dream that some romanists have thus pleaded , but , as i said before , if this gentleman will not insist on it , neither shall i farther importune him about it . num. 5 for that of gratitude which he now mentions onely as an aggravation of the sin of schismatizing , which that we are guilty of , he acknowledges must be proved by some other means , i yeild to the force of it , that it might justly adde a weight to the obligation , which formerly lay upon us , supposing any such there were , but cannot lay an obligation to obedience where before it was not due , much lesse were it due unto another . all the benefits that can be heaped on me by any man that gives me not my being , cannot oblige or engage my subjection to him , without the intervenience of my own consent , if i am perfectly free to choose my sovereign , and without the consent of my former sovereign , if i have any . num. 6 so that the whole question must be , whether by any original right the bishop of rome had power over this kingdome , and so whether by that , our obedience was due to him , for if it were , then this gratitude was not the tenure , but that other ; and if it were not , then neither of the titles are in force against us ; not the first , which hath no beeing ; nor the second , which whatsoever it be , obligeth not to obedience . num. 7 this i thought was apparent by the instance of the several claims to a kingdome , by descent , and by conquest , the one of which , if it stood , as the title , supersedeth the other , he that holds by inheritance , cannot be properly said to hold by conquest , even when it is true that he hath conquered also . for in that case , when the right heir being forced to make use of his sword to give him possession , is successfull and victorious in it , all that his sword doth , is to give him possession , not to give him right , for that he had before by inheritance . num. 8 that the same right cannot be held by two tenures appears by this ; because if it might , it being evidently possible that those two tenures might be separated and placed in several subjects , the inheritance in one , the conquest in another , it must follow from thence , that each of those persons shall have the right ; which as it is unimaginable , speaking of the whole right or propriety in integrum to the whole power , for if one have it all , the other can have no part of it , so if it be applied to a partial right ( which more than one may have , either severally , or socially , and jointly , to the same thing ) then that is the changing of the question which spake of the whole right , and not onely of some one or more parts or branches of it . num. 9 and therefore as this gentleman agrees with me in the conclusion , that rome hath no title to our obedience , from that of converting us , or if it had , it could not plead the same from s. peter 's universal pastorship , so i cannot discern , why my way of inferring it was disliked , or my ignorance in the lawes censured , for saying that the title of descent is exclusive to that of conquest , meaning it not of several parts , of which one comes by descent , the other by conquest , but of the same whole thing , of which he that hath the right by descent , may by the sword and conquest vindicate his right , and acquire quiet possession , but cannot be said to acquire his right by those means , being supposed to have had it , before he made use of them . sect. ii. the british church not converted from rome . num. 1 having granted me my conclusion , that our obedience to rome is not due from the nation 's conversion by mission from thence , he is yet resolved to examine my arguments , by which i prove what he grants . and there be three things , that here he takes notice of . the first in these words , num. 2 but to come to some matter , his first arguments is that this island was converted before s. augustine's time , surely he means by the name of island , the land and mountains and trees , for if he speak of the men , what hath the conversion of the former islanders to doe with the subjection and duty which the saxons owe. num. 3 i answer , by this island , i mean not the mountains , nor trees , on one side , any more than the present individual persons on the other side , but the inhabitants of it indefinitely , who have succeeded one another , whether british or saxon by extraction . for , first , of the british it is certain that they were not converted by mission from rome , but were christians long before s. augustine's coming hither , and secondly , of the saxons it may be remembred , that augustine did not absolutely introduce christianity among them here , but luidhardus , that came out of france with ethelred's wife , and was a bishop here , had prepared the way for augustine . see bede hist : eccl : lib. 1. c. 25 , 26. and thirdly , if augustine were the first converter of the saxons , and so that be , without farther question , granted of him , yet that cannot belong to the whole island , the dominion of wales being neither of saxon extraction , nor converted from rome to christianity . and this is the designe of that argument of mine , in case there were a duty owing to that see , from whence the converter came , and in case that were acknowledged to pertain to the saxons , yet still the british part would not be concluded by either of these , it being certain that their ancestors were not comprehended in this number . num. 4 but because this gentleman waves this title from conversion , neither shall i farther insist to disprove it ; but rather ask , why no answer was made to those testimonies , which in that place were occasionally vouched to shew that at the time of augustine's coming into this island , the christian church here acknowledged no subjection to rome , or to any other church , to be due from them , which certainly is some prejudice to the claim drawn from the vniversal pastorship of s. peter and his successor at rome . num. 5 to that which is there said for the evidencing this out of the annals of gisburne , it will not be amisse here to adde what our stories tell us , that when the pelagian heresie , which first sprang from morgan a britain , was by agricola brought into this island , the britains * unwilling to receive their infusions , and yet unable to resist them without assistance from some other church , in this time of need , applied not themselves to rome , as in their * secular distresses they had accustomed , but to their neighbours of france , who calling a councel sent germanus altisiodorensis and lupus to their aid , by which means the catholick faith was much revived and increased and propagated among them . sect. iii. s. paul's plantations an argument against the vniversal pastorship of s. peter . s. paul's being bishop of rome , no answer to it . num. 1 the argument which he next speaks to , is that wherein from paul's having planted some churches , which yet are not subjected to the chair , where s. paul sate ( whether antioch or rome ) i conclude against this claim of power from the title of conversion : to this he thus speaks , num. 2 his next argument demandeth , whether all that s. paul converted , were obliged to be under him ; truly if it were to purpose , i believe there might be proof that s. paul expected it ; but he doth not remember that he told us s. paul was bishop of rome , and so it cometh to the same quesion , but indeed he quite misseth the matter , for no body stateth this for the popes title , but aggravation of the schisme . num. 3 3. to what purpose it is to say there might be proof , and yet to produce none , i know not ; this onely i desire to note , that if any such proof were produced , and , without that , by the bare pretending that it might be proved , s. peter's universal pastorship must be disclaimed , and consequently all right which derives its original from thence . num. 4 for s. paul 's labours being more abundant than all the apostles , 't is certain great numbers were converted by him , and if all they were to be under s. paul , how can s. peter be pastor and ruler of all , it being certain , that s. paul was not subordinate to s. peter . num. 5 and it is of little force what i am reminded of ( though sure i never forgot it ) that s. paul was bishop of rome , and so it cometh to the same question : for 1. s. paul being bishop of the gentile part of the roman christians , as s. peter of the jewish , and those then disparate congregations , s. paul cannot be thought in his converting the gentiles of other nations , to bring in subjects to s. peter ; and 2. it is evident that s. paul was not bishop of rome when he placed timothy over asia , and titus over crete , and consequently the conversion and establishment of those churches was not in any reason to acquire any dominion to rome , which s. paul had never seen at that time , and which was it self converted after those , and that was it which i was proving . num. 6 but he bethinketh himself at last , and confesseth that this of conversion is not the pope's title to england , and having done so before , why might he not have permitted me to bring undeniable evidences for the proof of it ? sect. iv. the concernments of rome in the princes power to remove patriarchates . the examples of it . justiniana , the canon of chalcedon , and the 6 t councel . valentinian making ravenna a patriarchate . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . num. 1 to put this whole matter out of controversie , viz : that the church of england is not bound to be subject to that church , from which it first received the faith , one head of argument i pitcht on , the power of kings to remove or erect primacies and patriarchates , which if it have truth in it , evidently proves , that in case we were once under the see of rome , as our patriarchate or prime see ( supposing that of vniversal pastorship disproved before , and not reconcileable with this title to england by having converted ) yet it was in the power of our kings to remove that from rome to canterbury . for the proof of this , evidences were brought both from the councel ( and that oecumenical ) of chalcedon , and from the practice of princes , particularly justinian in an eminent instance , and valentinian and others before the councel of chalcedon , and many the like examples in the records of this kingdome , and of others , as is shewed at large , and the ground of all insisted on , the supreme power of kings in ecclesiastical affairs , and this is done in 16 sections , from the 9th to the end of that chapter . against all which ( that we may see how true the title of this gentleman's book is , an answer to the most material parts &c. ) that which is confronted , is contained in these words , num. 2 thirdly , he saith it was in the emperors power to constitute patriarchs : whether that be so or not , it will not be much to our purpose to dispute here , onely this i say , that he seems neither to understand the question , nor proves what he would ; he understands not the question , which hath no dependency on the nature of patriarchs , or terms of gratitude , but on the donation of christ : he proves not what he would , for he produceth onely the act of an emperour accounted tyrannical towards the church , without proof and discussion whether it was well or ill done , which was requisite to make good his proof ; neither doth he say whether the thing were done or no by the consent of bishops , especially since the pope was an actor in the businesse , he addeth an apocryphal decree of valentinian the third , for giving of privileges purely ecclesiastical to the bishop of ravenna , which out of his liberality he makes a patriarch , but on the whole matter this is to be observed , that generally the bishops consents were praedemanded or praeordered , as in the council of chalcedon , can. 7. it is ordered that the church should translate their bishoprick● according to the emperours changing of his city , and when the emperours did it , it is said they did it according to the power given them , to wit , by the church , so that a few examples to the contrary , produced in the reigns of head-strong and tyrannical princes , as the most of those are noted to be , under whom they are urged , prove nothing , and if they did , yet cannot they be taken as testimonies , when these matters of fact are onely so attributed to princes , as no way to exclude the church , but whatsoever it was , it doth not at all appertaine to the question , since the popes authority , in the sense he calls him pope , is not properly patriarchal , nor hath any dependency upon , or from change of places made by the command of princes . num. 3 the first thing here answered is , that it is not much to the romanists purpose to dispute , whether or no the emperour hath power to constitute patriarchs . ( he ought to have added , or to translate them from one city to another , for that is in that tract also expresly proved , but this i suppose not without reason omitted , because the power to erect or constitute , supposes and implies the power to translate them ) and if this be not this gentleman's interest to dispute , i shall then by his good leave , suppose it yeilded me , and observe what the consequences will be . num. 4 and 1. in case the power of the pope be a patriarchal power , and no more , and that appear to be all that the antient councils ever allowed it to be , then it immediately followes , that it is in the power of the emperour to translate and remove it from that to any other see , and in that case what befell constantinople by way of advancement , from the title of an ordinary suffragan bishops see , it ascended to equal dignity and privileges with rome it self , will in the reverse be the condition of rome ; from the first patriarchal see in the whole world , nothing hinders but that it may become the see of the most ordinary bishop and sure 't will be the romanists concernment to dispute that principle , from which this may possibly be the undeniable conclusion . num. 5 but if , as here it seems to be interposed , the power of rome be that of vniversal pastorship , no way dependant on the nature of patriarchs , or on any other tenure , but the donation of christ to saint peter , then 1. it must be remembred that after the refuting of any such right from christs donation in the former chapters , the removal also of this was in all reason to prove of some interest to the romanist , and so it must , all the proofes of those chapters be perfectly answered , which yet hath not been done in any degree , as this reply to the few answers applyed to those chapters hath shewed . num. 6 secondly , this adhering thus wholly to this donation of christ , and the vniversall pastorship deduced from thence , is the direct disclaiming of all the canonical privileges belonging to rome , on the score of patriarchy , and so in case that first tenure shall faile , it is the degrading of rome from that dignity , which by antient canon belong'd to it , that of the prime patriarchy , and so cuts the romanist off from all the advantage he can reape either from the affirmation of fathers or councels , any farther than they are founded in , and referre to christs donation of vniversal pastorship to saint peter , which whether it will prove to be the interest of this gentleman , i must leave him to judge for himselfe , and onely adde in the last place , that against him that asserts the bishop of romes vniversal pastorship upon what title soever , this will necessarily be a shrewd prejudice , if it be not disputed but yeilded , that it is in the power of princes to erect or translate patriarchies , by patriarchies understanding ( as it is evident i doe in that discourse ) chiefe independent authorities over other churches , such as was by justinian conferred on justiniana prima and carthage , by valentinian on ravenna , without any subordination to , or dependence on any other , particularly on the see of rome . num. 7 can any thing be more prejudicial to the vniversall pastorship of rome than this ? can rome be pastor of those who have no dependance on her ? or can that be vniversal , from which some particulars are exempt ? num. 8 this made it but necessary for this gentleman to undertake two things in the following words , that i neither understand the question , nor prove what i would ; for if i shall yet appear to judge aright of the question , even as it is by this gentleman brought back to that which had been debated in the former chapters , whether the bishop of rome be vniversal pastor by christs donation to saint peter , and if i have really proved that it is in the power of emperours and princes to constitute and remove patriarchies , it will certainly follow , that i have done all that i undertook to doe , evinced the matter of the question , and shewd that it is in the power of princes to exempt some churches from the popes dominion , and so superseded the vniversality of his pastorship . num. 9 as for the validity of my proofes , that must be judged by the view of the answers applyed to them , 1. that i produce onely the act of an emperour accounted tyrannicall towards the church . to this i answer , 1. that the word [ onely ] excluding all others , the proposition can have no truth in it , it being evident that i produce many other acts of the same imperial power , as the reader may finde by casting his eye on the place , the latter part of that 6. chap : and this gentleman himselfe shall be my witnesse , ( who saith of me [ he addeth an apocryphal decree of valentinian ] which though it be not a recitation of all that are by me added , yet is sufficient to tefie the contrary , to what the [ onely ] had affirmed . num. 10 secondly , the character that is given that emperour , whose act i first produced , that he is accounted tyrannicall towards the church , will , i suppose , signifie but this , that he that did any thing derogatory to the vniversal pastorship of the bishop of rome , is by this prejudged from yeilding us any competent testimony in this dispute , which is in effect that this gentleman is in the right , and all that is , or shall , or can be brought against him must signifie nothing , which sure is not the way of answering arguments , but adhering to conclusions , without weighing what is or can be brought against them . num. 11 thirdly , for that particular act , and the emperor which is thus censured : it is justinian , that great and famous emperour , his making the bishop of justiniana prima the head of all daciae , &c. of which this gentleman had past a very different judgement , when it came under his view in the former chapter . num. 12 there his answer was , the emperour exempted it not from the popes subjection , pag 15. and yet now when the very same passage comes in his way againe , he hath forgotten himselfe , and the emperour , that just now had as great care of the popes spiritual power , as of his owne civill , is in a moment become tyrannicall towards the church . i desire one of these answers , being thus engaged , may make good the contest against the other . num. 13 but then 4. whatsoever can be said of that emperor in other respects , 't is certaine that this erecting of justiniana was no act of tyranny against the church , but the very thing that is authorised by the 17 canon of the general council of chalcedon ( which is one of those that the pope at his consecration solemnly vows to observe , and all the ordinances made in them ) for that resolves that if any city be built or restored by the kings power , the ecclesiastical order must follow the political , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith the scholiast , the imperial decrees concerning that city * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to have the dignity of an episcopal or metropolitical see. and the same againe in the same words was decreed by the 6. council in trullo , can. 38. from whence certainly balsamon's conclusion is irrefragable , * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that it is lawfull ( and so sure not tyrannical ) for a prince to take away ( or remove ) the privileges of the church of any city , and * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to determine , as he shall please , concerning the privileges of bishops . num. 14 his second answer is , that i doe not say whether the thing were done or no by the consent of bishops , especially since the pope was an actor in the businesse . to which i answer , that when i have made it appear to be the act of the emperour , and that by the canons of councels it was acknowledged fully lawfull for the emperour , and so for other princes , to doe so , i need neither inquire whether the consent of bishops , or of the pope himself were added to it , such formalities of consent may be had or omitted without any disturbance to , or influence on the matter . num. 15 his third answer is applied to that act of valentinian , which made ravenna a patriarchate , and first he calls the decree of that emperour an apocryphall decree ; 2. he saith that it was giving to the bishop privileges purely ecclesiastical , reproving me for making him a patriarch ; for the first , i answer , that as i never thought it any piece of the canon of scripture , by which valentinian did this or any more than a rescript of an emperour , which , if such , is certainly sufficient to expresse it an imperial act , so the authorities for this may rescue it from farther question , for though it were not baronius's interest to believe it , and so it is by him suspected of forgery , an. 432. n. 93. yet even he acknowledgeth it to be very antient , and owned by several writers , n. 92. and afterwards , when the same authorities which are produced for this , hier : rubeus , and the records of ravenna , seem to favour his grand design , i. e. make for rome , he can then very fairly make use of them , though it be but a narration of a vision , an. 433. n. 24. but i need not lay more weight on this , than the apocryphal ( as he calls it ) decree will be able to support , this is no singular president , many examples there are of the like which are there mentioned in the tract of schisme . num. 16 for the second , patriarchal power ravenna had without any dependance on the bishop of rome , and i pretend no more for the bishop of canterbury , and therein also shall bate bim the title of patriarch , what he adds ( by way of observation on the whole matter ) 1. that generally the bishops consents were praedemanded or praeordered , as in the councel of chalcedon , can. 17. secondly , that what the emperours did , they did by the power given them by the church , will soon appear to bring him little advantage , for num. 17 1. the bishop's ( i suppose he means the bishop of rome his ) consent was not asked ; one part of the story is , that when the bishop of ravenna , being fain to flie to the bishop of rome for support against the longobards , submitted himself to him , the people of ravenna thought themselves injured thereby ; and 2. it is not truly said , that it was praeordered , and the canon of the councel of chalcedon cannot be brought to that purpose , this act of valentinians dated anno 432. being 19 years before the councel of chalcedon , which was assembled anno 451. and so sure not praeordained by that which was subsequent ; and indeed the canon of that councel mentioning cities and churches in the plural , which had been * before their session made metropoles by several kings , is a clear evidence that there were other such , beside that of ravenna , and * balsamon expresseth them by the name of madyta , and abydus &c. num. 18 thirdly , if this be acknowledged an act of councel confirming the lawfulness of what the emperours had thus done , and decreeing ( as clearly the councel of chalcedon and that other in trullo did ) that generally it should be thus , that as the prince made an ordinary city a metropolis , the church of that city should be a metropolitical church , then still this is the fuller evidence , that it was lawfull for princes thus to doe , and that as oft as they did , such changes in the churches followed , for sure a king was not obliged to ask the churches leave to repair or build a city . num. 19 lastly , what out of balsamon was cited by me , that what the emperors did in this matter they did according to the power that was given them ] was , it seems , either an occasion of stumbling to this gentleman , or an excuse of it ; for from hence he concludes that this power was given them by the church ; this , if it be true , is the thing that i would demand , and so farre , from answering mine instance : for if the church have given princes this power , then they may freely and lawfully make use of it ; and justinian's doing so could be no tyrannical act against the church . but let us view * balsamon's words , they are these , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such definitions are made by kings according to the power given them from above . that word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from above , sometimes signifies in respect of time , sometimes also in respect of place ; in the first respect it signifies from of old , and is oft joyned with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the beginning ; and if it be so taken here , as gentianus hervetus interprets it olim , it must then signifie that this power was yeilded to kings either by the apostles , or by the primitive canons of the church , and if it were thus given them by the church , then sure they might justly challenge and exercise it freely . but in the second sense , it is as certain that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies from above , i. e. from heaven , so joh. 19. 11. christ tells pilate , thou couldst have no power over me , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unlesse it were given thee from above , i. e. sure from heaven , from god , by whom kings reign and have their power , and so it very frequently signifies in the * scripture ; and if that be the the meaning , then this gentleman sees how well he hath inferred his conclusion from this passage . num. 20 by all this it already appears what truth there is in this suggestion , that the examples produced are but few , and those of tyrannical princes , and no way excluding the church ] just as much , and no more , as was in the premisses , which induced it , and those being discovered already , it is superfluous to make repetitions so soon in this place . num. 21 in the close he thinks sit to retire again to his old fortresse , that the popes power is not patriarchal , and so that he is still safe from all that hath been said on that head ; but it hath now appeared , that if any other be made a patriarch or primate , or ( whatever the style be ) a bishop without any dependence on the pope , this is a prejudice sufficient to his vniversal pastorship , and other disadvantages he is rather in reason to expect by disclaiming the patriarchal authority , which the canons have allowed him , than hope to gain any thing by contemning his inheritance . chap. vii . an answer to the exceptions made to the seventh chapter . sect. i. king henry's desire of reconciliation to rome . the sacriledge , &c. no argument against regal power to remove patriarchies . possession in the belief of the popes supremacy . prescribing for errour . napier's testimony . possession , if granted from augustine's coming into england , no argument of truth . confessions of popes . augustine required it not . pope gregory's testimony . many evidences that this belief was not received after augustine's time . num. 1 what in the next place is replied to that part of chapter 7. which concerned henry viii . his act of ejecting the power of the pope , will be full matter for a first section of this chapter . he begins thus , num. 2 in his seventh chapter he intends a justification of the breach whereof as he doth not teach the infamous occasion , and how to his dying day the same king desired to be reconciled , as also that it was but the coming two daies short of a post to rome , which hindered that the reconcilement was not actually made , as may be seen in my lord of cherbery's book fol. 368. and that the moderate protestants curse the day wherein it was made , so the very naming of hen. viii . is enough to confute all his discourse , one of the darlings of his daughter having given him such a character , as hath stamped him for england's nero to future posterity , and as it was said of nero in respect of christian religion , so might it be of him respecting the unity of the church , viz : it must be a great good that he began to persecute and abolish : and as for the acts passed in the vniversities , convocation , or parliament , let the blood shed by that tyrant bear witnesse what voluntary and free acts they were especially those two upon his seneca and burrhus , bishop fisher , and the chancellor more , that he might want nothing of being throughly para●eld to nero. but methinks the doctor differs not much in this , seeming tacitly to grant the bishops were forced , awed by that noted sword in a slender thread , the praemunire which did hang over their heads , though in the conclusion of that sect : he saies we ought to judge charitably , viz : that they did not judge for fear nor temporal interests , yet after waves the advantage of that charitable judgment , and saith , that if what was determined were falsly determined by the king and bishops , then the voluntary and free doing it will not justifie , and if it were not , then was there truth in it , antecedent to , and abstracted from the determination , and it was their duty so to determine , and crime that they were unwilling : laying the whole weight of the argument upon this , that the pretensions for the popes supremacy in england must be founded either as successor to s. peter in the univer sal pastorship of the church , so including england as a member thereof ; or upon paternal right respecting s. augustine's conversion , or upon concession from some of our kings &c. to which i answer , that we relie on the first as the foundation and corner-stone of the whole building , on the second as an action worthy the successor of s. peter , which requires a gratefull consideration from us ; and on the third not as a concession , but as a just acknowlengment of what was necessary for the good of christian religion , taught our kings by those who taught them christian religion ; of which belief , i mean that the pope as successor to s. peter is head and governour of the vniversal church , we have been in possession ever since the conversion of our english ancestors , then saxons , to the christian religion , made by austin the monk sent hither by pope gregory for that purpose ; untill that good king henry the viii . out of scrupulosity of conscience ( no noubt ) was pleased to cut the gordian knot of those bonds , within which all his ancestors limited themselves ; neither shall all that the doctor and his fellows have said , or can say , justifie themselves so , but that such a possession , as i here speak of , will convince them of schisme , though all those replies , which by ours have been 40 times made to every one of those arguments the doctor uses , should bear but equal weight in the scale , which we think hoises it up into the aire , for the arguments must be demonstrative and clear to men of common sense , that must overthrow such a possession ; and therefore it is that the puritans , who are much lesse friends to the church of rome than to the church of england , wave all disputing out of antiquity , and confesse that the church of rome hath born a sway without any debatable contradiction over the christian world 126 years , a time that no king in the world can pretend to by succession from his ancestors for possession of his crown , and yet i believe the doctor would conclude those subjects guilty of rebellion , which should goe about to deprive such a king of his crown , though he could not shew writings evidently concluding for him 12 , 14 , 15 , or 1600 years agoe , how much more if he could shew them demonstrating his right , in the interpretation of as wise and learned men as the world hath , and 20 times the numbers of their adversaries . num. 3 the first thing here objected to my discourse , is , as orators are wont to doe for the raising of passions , a mention of some circumstances , which though extrinsecal to the matter , may yet hope to have some influence on an unwary reader , and infuse no small prejudices into him ; such are the infamous occasion of the breach begun by that king , and such is the odious character fastned on him of england's nero &c. num. 4 but it cannot be necessary for me to offer an apologie on either of these two heads , if that which he did in this particular of ejecting the papal power , be in it self justifiable , both in respect of the matter of the action , and the competency of the power that did it , it matters not what moved him to doe it , or how inclinable he was to have rescinded it . the farther he were from a truly pious man , the more likely it is , he might be brought by secular interests ( and the lesse likely that it was by any religious ) to undoe all that upon the weightiest grounds of reason , had been establisht by him . without examining therefore the truth of that suggestion , that to his dying day he desired to be reconciled , and without demanding what is meant by that phrase , desired to be reconciled , whether any overture to receive the popes on his owne termes , into full possession againe , or onely a desire to approve himselfe to the pope , that he still maintained the catholike , nay roman faith ( as we know he put men to death for denying some doctrines profest at rome ) that what he had done was no whit injurious to him , prejudiciall , or derogatory to any right , which could justly be chalenged by the pope in this kingdome ; without either of these inquires , i say , if i shall take for granted the utmost that can be pretended , that for a long time together he desired to have rescinded what he had done , i see not what disadvantage this can be to our pretensions . num. 5 for 1. i shall demand , was he all this while , that he thus desired to be reconciled , a truly changed and pious prince , was that principle of wicked life so soone eradicated , which even now denominated him a nero , and made it fit to esteeme that a great good , which he began to abolish , and did he thus continue a new , reformed penitent to his dying day ? if so , then truly sir w. r. was very unkinde and unchristian in recording his crimes , and omitting his repentance ; and it is no excellent port of this gentlemans character , that he thought fit to imitate and quote him in this ; the same injustice in an historian or observator , that it had been in eusebius to take so much of the life of constantine out of zosimus or julian's caesars , as should render him justly odious , and to omit the whole latter part of his life , which was so eminently vertuous and christian . num. 6 but if this prince still continued to be like that image , which here is pourtrayed of him , then sure i shall with the same evidence of proofe be allowed to object those vices , and those no excellent christian motives that incited it , to his desire of being reconciled or his willingnesse to re-admit the papall power into this kingdome , and conclude , that the ejection of it must be a great good , which he was so inclinable to abolish , and so the faith of the reformed , which he so more than began to persecute , and all this as regularly as his personall vices , and the infamus occasion , be it never so truly so , can be objected to that act of state , which past in that kings reigne , for the disclaimig the papal powers among us . num. 7 nay , if that passage in his storie had acquired a yet farther degree of truth , if the post had come two dayes sooner to rome , and so had actually composed the difference between that king and that pope , so as had been most for the interest of rome , yet it is evident , that my discourse had no way been concerned in this ; this evidently had been no more , than what afterwards came to passe in marie's dayes , and it would still be in the power of king henries immediate successor , to remove the power from rome to canterbury , as it had been in the power of henry either to doe it , or undoe it againe . num. 8 and therefore the whole matter still divolves ( as it did in the tract of schisme ) to that one question , whether the bishop of rome had at that time any real authority here , which the king might not lawfully remove from him to the arch-bishop of canterbury , and must be decided as there it is , by the view of evidences , whether that pretended from peters vniversal pastorship , or that from augustines planting christianity here , or that from the voluntary con●ession of some kings , and each of them is so disproved there , that till some competent answer be rendered to those particulars , ( which certainly is not yet done by this gentleman , who onely here tells us the manner how he relyes on each of these , and the possession they had of the beliefe that the pope was head of the vniversal church ) 't is perfectly unnecessary farther to consider what is here added , onely to inflame passions , but not to satisfie conscience , to exasperate , not to argue . num. 9 for what if moderate protestants should truly curse the day , &c. or , in a more christian dialect , expresse their dislike to the great sacrilege , and some other enormities , which were committed in that princes reigne , what prejudice will this be to any lawful exercise of that regal power ? 't is certaine that all the acts of a bad prince are not invalid or null , and much more evident still , that he that hath not offended in assuming the power which really belongs to him , may by being denyed that , be inraged , and laid open , to importune temptations , and if he be not a through christian , constant and masterly , fall , and that foulely under those temptations . and if henry viii . did so , still this is very extrinsecall to the present inquiry , whether he as king had power to remove a patriarchy , and by that to remove all forraigne jurisdiction or authority out of this church . num. 10 all that remaines in this section , farther to be spoken to , is the possession that is here pleaded , not in the power it selfe , ( if it were , that hath formerly been spoken to ) but in the beliefe , that the pope as successor to s. peter , is head and governour of the vniversal church , this beliefe , saith he , they have been in possession of , ever since the conversion of our english ancestors , till king henry ; and for this , beside his own bare affirmation , he brings no other proofe , than one testimony of na●ier on the revelation , confessing that the church of rome hath borne a sway over the christian world above 1200. yeares . num. 11 and 1. for this kinde of possession , possession in the beliefe of any thing , any farther than that which is believed is true , and that appeare some other way , than by our having so long believed it , certainly this is no matter of any deep consideration to us ; if it still appeare to be true upon grounds of reason , those grounds are the considerable , and not the beliefe ; and if the grounds be discovered to be fallacious , and the contrary to be more reasonable to be believed , then sure this hath but the advantage of an antient error , and the older it is , the fitter not to be longer continued in , it must be immediately deposited . and against this , or instead of doing thus , to talke of possession is unnatural , and irrational , the same plea that may serve for any sinne that hath had the luck to get the first hold in us , the same that would certainly have held for all the idolatry of the heathens , when christ came into the world ; and he that hath long lived in obscurity and misery ( he , and his ancestors ) for many years together , and were now offered an advancement out of that sad condition , would he ever be so unkinde to himselfe as to refuse that offer , upon this one account , because it is the turning him out of a possession ? this prescribing for error , and prescribing for sin , and prescribing for misery , are in effect the same , equally unnatural and irrational , supposing it to be truly error and sinne , and misery which we treat of . num. 13 but then secondly waving this , and applying our selves to the particular before us , how doth it appeare that the romanist hath been in possession in this beliefe , so long as he pretends ? he here brings but one testimony to confirme it , that of napier ; but for this testimony the answer is easie , that the affirmations or confessions of such as napier was ( and is by this gentleman acknowledged to be ) in their arguing against the credit of antiquity , or to make good other hypotheses of theirs , are of as little authority with us , as i suppose they will be with them , when they are contrary to their pretensions or interests ; secondly , that the popes bearing a sway over the christian world is not interpretable to signifie his vniversal pastorship ; the bishop of the prime imperial see , may justly be very considerable , and so beare a sway , but it follows not thence that his ordinary jurisdiction hath been thus extended to the whole christian world . num. 14 nay thirdly , the contrary to this hath been sufficiently evidenced chap : 4. and 5. both as concernes saint peter himselfe , and the bishop of rome as successor to saint peter , and till those evidences are refuted , the affirmation of napier being so imperfect and infirme , both in respect of the testifier and the matter of the testimony , will be very unfit to bear sway with any rational man. num. 15 and so the whole weight of this argument prest with so much confidence is resolved into the bare authority of the speaker , this gentleman , who saith it , that ever since the conversion of the english nation , the romanists have had possession of this beliefe , that the pope , as successor to saint peter is governour of the vniversal church . num. 16 and that i may apply some answer yet more particularly to this , i shall premise one thing , that if indeed this were granted , which is suggested , it would not be of any great force toward the inducing of this conclusion , that the pope really was and is vniversal pastor . for supposing the pope to have assumed that authority , at the time of augustine the monke his coming into england and making his plantation , and supposing him to have preacht this to king ethelbert , and the rest of his proselites , with the same gravity and confidence , that he used in imparting all the doctrines of christian faith ( in the same manner as xaverius the apostle of the indics imparted to them two gospels , the one of christ , the other of saint peter ) i shall not doubt but upon these grounds it would be very consequent , that all , that willingly imbraced the preaching of augustine , and had no other doctrine to compare it with , or examine it by , should probably receive this branch of beliefe , and so all others from and after them , that insisted firmely and punctually on augustine's way ; and thus 't is possible the possession of that belief might be continued till the dayes of hen. viii . num. 17 but then this is no proofe that what in this particular augustine affirmed was true , or that the beliefe of it had possession in the whole church before , nay , the contrary will be most evident , that at that very time the british bishops acknowledged not any such power over them in the pope or any other , as is cited from the abbate of bangor , cap. 16. sect. 5. and much more to the same purpose . num. 18 and 't is no newes to remind him out of their owne canon law , that some of their popes have disclaimed ( and that not without great aversation and detestation of the arrogance of it ) the title of vniversal bishop or pastor , and acknowleged it is a very ominous symptome in any that shall assume it , and considering the prejudices that lye against it , from the first oecumenical councils , all the ordinances whereof the popes at their creations vow to maintaine inviolably , and against which to constitute or innovate any thing , ne hujus quidem sedis potest authoritas , it is not in the power of this see , saith pope zosimus , 25. qu. 1. c. contra. i may justly conclude that all are obliged to doe the like . num. 19 but then secondly , what truth there is in it in thesi , that from s. augustine's plantation to this time of henry viii . the romanists have been in possession of this belief of the popes universal pastorship , must be contested by evidences . and 1. for augustine himself it appears not by the story in bede , that he did at all preach this doctrine to the nation , nay , as upon augustine's demand concerning ceremonies , pope gregory bindes him not to conform all to the canons or practice of rome , but bids him * freely choose that which may most please god , wheresoever he findes it , sive in gallia●um , sive in qualibet ecclesi● , whether in france , or in any other church , & haec quasi in fasciculum collecta apud anglorum mentes in consuetudinem deponere , make up a book of such canons to be observed in england ( which clearly shews that the romish canons were not to be in power in england ) so when the difference betwixt him and the british bishops ( of whom it hath been shewed that they acknowledged not the pope to have any power over them ) came to be composed , he required compliance and obedience from them but in three things , the * observation of easter according to the order of the church of rome ( and the nicene canon ) the ministration of baptisme , and joyning with him to preach to the english ; which is some prejudice to the founding of this belief in augustine's preaching . num. 20 nay when bede comes to speak of gregory then pope , by way of encomium at his death , the utmost he faith of him is , that cùm primùm in toto orbe gereret pontifieatum , & conversis jamdudum ecclesiis praelatus esset &c. being bishop of the prime church in the whole world , and set over those churches which had been long since converted , and having now taken care to propagate that faith to england , he might justly be called our apostle , and say as s. paul did , that if to others he were not an apostle , yet he was to us . num. 21 as for that of vniversal pastorship certainly we may take gregory's own word , that no such thing was then thought to belong to him , in his epistle to eulogius bishop of alexandria , visible among his works , and inserted in the * body of their canon law. nam dixi &c. i told you that you were not to write to me or any other in that style , and behold in the preface of that epistle directed to me who thus prohibited , you have set this proud appellation , calling me universal pope or father , which i desire you will doe no more , for it is a derogating from * you , to bestow on another more than reason requires , i count it not my honour , wherein i know my brethren lose their honour , my honour is the honour of the universal church , my honour is that my brethren should enjoy what fully belongs to them ( so i render fratrum meorum solidus vigor ) then am i truly honoured when the honour , which is due to all , is denied to none . for if you call me universal pope , you deny that to your self which you attribute all to me ; and farther tells him , with expressions of aversation , absit and recedant — , that this honour had by a councel been offered to his predecessors , the councel of chalcedon ( that gave it equally to him and the bishop of constantinople , which is in effect to give to neither the power or sense , but onely the title of it ) but no one of them would ever use this title . this sure i● evidence enough , that if at that time any such belief of the vniversal pastorship of the pope entred this nation , it must needs be the belief of a known acknowledged falsity , and so farre from a bonae fidei possessio . num. 22 after this , what possession this belief had among us , may be judged by some of those many * instances put together by the bishops in henry viii . his daies , as the premises whereon that king built his conclusion of ejecting that power which was then usurped by the pope . num. 23 first a statute , that for ecclesiastical appeals they shall in the last resort lie from the archbishop to the king , so as not to proceed any farther without the kings assent . num. 24 secondly , that tunstan archbishop elect of yorke , asking leave of the king to go to a councel designed by calixtus , had it granted with this reserve , that he should not receive episcopal benediction from the pope . num. 25 thirdly , that the kings of england from time to time , had and exercised authority of making lawes in ecclesiastical matters ; eight such lawes are there recited of canutus his making , the like of king ethelred , edgar , edmund , aethelstane , ina king of the west saxons , and king alfred . num. 26 fourthly , that william the conquerour instituting and indowing the abbey of battell , gave the abbat exemption from all jurisdiction of any bishops , aut quarumlibet personarum dominatione , from all dominion or rule of any persons whatsoever , sicut ecclesia christi cantuariensis , in like manner as the church of canterbury ; which imports two things , 1. that the church of canterbury had no such ruler over him ( but the king ) and 2. that the abbat of battell was by regal power invested with the same privileges . num. 27 but i suppose all these , and many the like instances , which might be brought , derogatory enough to the possession in this belief here pretended , will but adde one more to the number of such arguments , of which this gentleman saith , that they have fourty times had replies made to them ; and truly this is a good easie compendious way , which as it secures him against all that can be produced , so it doth not incourage me to spend time in collecting and producing more , and therefore this shall suffice to have added now concerning this matter , being apt to flatter my self , that these arguments are demonstrative and clear enough to men of common sense , to disprove , and so to overthrow this possession . sect. ii. queen mary's retaining the supremacy . power of refusing legates , unreconcileable with the popes supremacy . num. 1 the next paragraph is an account of a passage cited by me from the story of queen mary , thus , num. 2 queen mary's titular retaining of the supremacy untill she could dispose the disordered hearts of her subjects to get it peaceably revoked , is no authority for the doctor , she never pretending it to be lawfully done , but that she could not doe otherwise , no more is her refusing of a legate , which in all catholick times and countries hath been practiced and thought lawfull . num. 3 what civil or secular motives they were , which kept that queen so long from rejecting the title of supreme in her own kingdome , i shall not need to inquire ; if it were no unpardonable sin in her to continue the title , and exercise of that power , which was incompetible with the pope's universal pastorship , then why should it be so hainous in her father to assume it ? her never pretending that it was lawfully done , signifies very little , as long as she pretends not the contrary , that it was unlawfull ; the truth may well lie in the middle , that she thought it lawful to retain it , yet lawful also to bestow it on the bishop of rome , and upon the strength of the former perswasion , my charity obligeth me to think , that she did the former , and in force of the latter it is possible also , that she did the latter , though possible too , that she did it upon reason of state , the validity of her mother's mariage , and consequently her legitimation depending upon the acknowledgment of the pope's absolute power in this nation . num. 4 but the truth is , her opinion or practice is of no more force one way , than the other , and therefore was taken in as a supernumerary observation , and not such as on that alone to found any grand argument . num. 5 as for the power of refusing a legate from the pope , i cannot discern how that is reconcileable with the popes pretensions to supreme power in this kingdome ; can it be lawfull for any province to refuse a procurator , or praetor , or proconsul , sent solemnly commissionated by the lawfull prince ? was it lawfull for the tenants or dressers of the vineyard to deny entrance to the king's son or but servant ? is not this a derogation to supreme power and domination ? if this be practiced and counted lawful in all catholick times and countreys , this is to me an indication , that in no time or countrey there hath been possession of this belief that the pope is the supreme pastor of all , for sure if he were , his legate which is his image , might in power of the original require admission , and he that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus sent and commissionated by him , must by s. peter's precept be allowed obedience from all his subjects , and so from that queen , if such she were , and such she must be , so farre as he had the supremacy . num. 6 so again when cardinal petou was sent to be bishop of sarisbury , the denying him that bishoprick was a check to the pope's absolute supremacy , but of that this gentleman was in prudence to take no notice . sect. iii. king edward his reformation . the duke of somerset . the duke of northumberland , his treason no prejudice to the reformation under that king. num. 1 his next exception is to the passages concerning king edward vi. henry's immediate successor , thus , num. 2 king edward a childe of nine years old fell into the hands of wicked and ambitious traytors , who knowing the kingdome affected for religion sake to queen mary , to cut off her succession , and introduce their own , thought sit to strengthen their faction , which beside what they might hope from abroad , consisted of many lutherans and calvinists at home : those two sects having by opportunity of that rupture in henry viii . his time , spread and nest led themselves in many parts of england . num. 3 what is here said hath little of truth in it , and as little of argument , if it were truth . that the youth of the prince can be no foundation of argument against the legality of what was done by the duke of somerset his uncle , the protector , in his nonage , was sufficiently shewed before , and might be exemplified through all times and places . that this protector should at this time , when the young king legally fell into his hands , be styled a wicked ambitious traytor , hath not any degree of truth in it , the crime , for which he afterward lost his life , being farre from any disloyalty to his sovereign . num. 4 as for the duke of northumberland , who obtained the king's consent to settle the inheritance on jane grey , and accordingly , after the king's death , proclaimed her queen , and suffered as a traytor for so doing , all that i shall need to say is this , 1. that this act of his , how trayterous soever , cannot justifie what is here said , that the king at nine years old fell into the hands of traytors , for that one duke cannot truly be called traytors in the plural , and the king at that age did not fall into his hands , but into the hands of edward seymour duke of somerset , under whom the six articles and other acts of severity against the protestants were called in , and the acts against the papal authority confirmed , the romish masse abrogated , the bible translated , and published in the english tongue , the liturgie reformed , and the publick offices performed in english , the sacrament of the lord's supper administred in both kindes &c. and so whatsoever was afterward done ( were it never so trayterously ) by the duke of northumberland , could have no influence on this change , and is therefore very impertinently here inserted , after the manner of the orator , not the historian , to raise passions , inflame dislkes and aversions in the reader , and not to give him any exact view of the truth of the story . num. 5 secondly , that the designe of the duke of northumberland not succeeding , but costing him so dear , the losse of his own life and hers , whom he set up to be queen , and the succession regularly descending on queen mary , there can be no reasonable account given , why this treason of that duke should here be proposed as the one considerable , it being evident in the story , that all things were composed to the full satisfaction of queen mary , and just as they should have been , in case that trayterous attempt had never been made by that duke . num. 6 to which i might adde , that this treason of his was founded on that very act , which in the next paragraph this gentleman thinks fit to vouch as authentick , and if it were so , that could be no treason in that duke , viz : the act whereby mary as well as elizabeth were adjudged illegitimate , and so uncapable of the succession . but these are considerations very extrinsecal and remote from the matter , as it lies here in the contest between us . num. 7 i shall onely , for conclusion , observe , that if , as he saith , the kingdome were for religion's sake affected to queen mary , it could not certainly be skilfull , or popular , or any way politick in them that thus desired to strengthen themselves , to introduce this change in religion . for whatsoever aid they might hope for , either from lutherans or calvinists at home or abroad , sure they might have hoped for more by the other way , if it be true what he affirms of the kingdome indefinitely , that it was affected to queen mary's religion . for that other kingdomes of europe generally were so at that time , there is small question . sect. iii. queen elizabeth's illegitimacy answered . the unpolitickness of her councels of reforming . num. 1 now follows his exceptions to that part of the story which concern queen elizabeth ; the first by the by , thus , num. 2 queen elizabeth being by act of parliament recorded a bastard , and so pronounced by two popes , and therefore mistrusting all her catholick subjects , who she feared did adhere to the queen of scots title , in which she was then likely to be supported by the king of france her husband , was by the advice of men partly infected with calvinisme or lutheranisme , partly ambitious of making their fortunes , cast upon that desperate counsel of changing religion ; desperate i say , for see amongst what a number of rocks she was , in consequence of that counsel forced to sail , witness her adhering to the rebels of all her neighbour kings , so provoking them thereby , as if the french king had not been taken out of this world , and winde and weather fought against the spanish armado , in all likelihood she had been ruined , especially her catholick subjects being so provoked as they were , by most cruell and bloody laws : but this by the by : though from hence the reader may judge of reason of changing religion in her time , and what a solid foundation the church of england hath . num. 3 that queen elizabeth was by act of parliament recorded a bastard ; hath no farther truth in it , than is of force against queen mary also , the same act of parliament affirming the mariages with queen katharine , and anne of bolen void , and their children mary and elizabeth illegitimate , and so involving them equa'y under the same censure . num. 4 nay , if there were any force in this ( as this gentleman by mentioning it is obliged to think there is ) it must be much more to queen maries disadvantage , for 't is certain that upon the birth of queen elizabeth , 't was enacted by parliament , that the marriage with katharine was null , because incestuous , and so this with anne lawfull ( which certainly it was , if the former was incestuous and the resolution of the vniversities and most learned men , not onely in england , but at paris , and elsewhere was , that it was of such a nature , as it could not by the pope's power be dispensed with , being so contrary to the law of god ) and by the same act elizabeth is declared heir of the kingdome , in case the king should have no heir male , and oath of allegiance taken to the king and to his heirs by anne the mother of elizabeth . and to conclude , the subsequent act , that decreed the succession , and establisht it first in edward , then in mary , then in elizabeth , by which it was that mary did actually ascend to the throne , was equally favourable to both of them . num. 6 and so still if any thing were to be concluded from this gentleman 's prooemial consideration , it still lies more against queen mary , than against queen elizabeth , if not in respect of the merit of the cause ( on which this gentleman will give me leave to suppose it was , that our stories tell us , that the pope had given cardinal campeius his legate a private bull , much in favour of the king's pretensions , but kept it under some restraint till he saw how the emperour's affairs in italy would succeed ) yet in respect of the several declarations against the one , and but one onely against the other , and that how well founded , is easie to discern , if this were a place for such disputes . num. 7 but it is not so , much lesse for the other politick considerations that here follow , whether the counsel of re-excluding the papacy , and proceeding to a farther reformation in her kingdomes , were a desperate counsel or no , for if to this gentleman's arguments i shall grant it were so , the conclusion will be onely this , that her action was unskilful in secular considerations , from which it is no way consequent , that it was more than , as prince , she had power to doe , or impious in the sight of god , or that that , which being built on so feeble a foundation , proved yet competently successfull , is by this means conclusible to have been unlawful and null , for in that alone can be founded the truth of the suggestion here , that we that adhere to her reformation , must be adjudged schismaticks . sect. iv. the ordination of bishops in queen elizabeths time . mr. masons record . introducing of turcisme . num. 1 what remaines on this head of queen elizabeth , as the narration after this long prooeme , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 after an acknowledged ( yet at large ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , will be soone dispatch't ; it is thus , num. 2 how far master mason can justifie the ordination of queen elizabeths bishops , i will not now examine ; but certaine it is , that the record ( if there be such an one ) hath a great prejudice of being forged , since it lay some fifty years unknowne amongst the clamors against the flagrant act , and no permission given to gatholikes to examine the ingenuity of it , but howsoever it is nothing to our purpose , for whatsoever material mission they had by an external consecration , those bishops , who are said to have consecrated them , are not so much as pretended to have given them order to preach the dectrine , or exercise the religion they after did , which is the true meaning and effect of mission . i cannot end without noting in his 24. parag : the foundation upon what he himselfe saies his whole designe relies ; which is , that because the recession from the roman church was done by those , by whom , and to whom onely the power of right belonged legally , viz the king and bishops of this nation , therefore it is no schisme , that is , what soever the reason of dividing hath been , even to turne turkes , or for violating never so fundamental points of religion , yet it had not been schisme . num. 3 what mr. masons records are , and of how good and unquestionable authority , i leave to the view of his book , which sets downe all so particularly , and irrefragably , that nothing can be more contrary to the gentlemans interests , than the most strict examination of that whole matter , in order to the vindicating and justifying this truth , that the succession of bishops , and order ecclesiastical hath been regularly preserved in our church , at that time , when alone the romanist accuseth us for the interruption of it , i. e. in queen elizabeths reformation . ( to which head of discourse it is not amisse to adde the resolution of cudsemius the jesuite , de desper : calvini causà , cap. 11. that the english nation are not hereticks , because they remain in a perpetual succession of bishops . ) num. 4 which being the onely thing that in that sect. 16. i purposed to conclude from mr. masons worke , and the records by him produced , it lyes not on me to prove that they which ordained those queen eilzabeth-bishops , gave them order to preach the doctrine they after did , or to examine the truth of his suggestion , that this is the true meaning and effect of mission . it may suffice that they which consecrated them , gave them the same power which themselves derived by succession from the apostles , and that was sufficient to authorize them to preach all apostolical doctrine , and if they preacht any other , let it appeare , and i shall never justifie their preaching . but that is not attempted here , and therefore i have herein no farther matter , that exacts reply from me . num. 5 for as to his parting blow , which he cannot omit , in reply to sect 20. certainly it hath little impression on my discourse in that place , which doth not inquire what is unlawful or criminous universally , for then sure i should have acknowledged that the bringing in turcisme , or violating fundamental points of religion had been such , but peculiarly and precisely this , what is schisme , in that one notion of schisme , as that is a voluntary separation from our ecclesiastical superiours ; of which that we are not , or cannot be guilty , when we act in perfect concord , compliance and subordination to all those to whom the right of superiority legally belonged , is i suppose , so manifest , that it can need no farther proof . num. 6 as for any such act of lawful superiors in bringing in turcisme , or violating fundamental points , i should not be apt to style that schisme ( any more than i would call perjury , lying , or incest , simple fornication ) it being in the first part of the instance , apostasie and total defection from christ , which i hope is a little more than denying the popes vniversal pastorship , or infallibility of the church ( in which consists his grand species of schisme ) and in the second , heresie , and the grossest sort of schisme together , that of departing from the unity of the faith , which being by me chap. 8. distinctly handled , as a second species of schisme , all that i need here say to this gentleman's exception , is , that i indevoured to speak as distinctly , and not as confusedly as i could , and therefore did not mix things that were distant , and therefore did not speak of that second kinde of schisme at the same time when i proposed to speak of the first onely , and upon this account onely said nothing to it in that chapter . and i hope this was but my duty to doe , agreeably to all rules of method , and so that he might very well have spared that animadversion which he saith he could not end without noting . chap. viii . an answer to the exceptions made to the eighth chapter . sect. i. the division of schisme . an answer to many questions about schism , a retortion . num. 1 in proceeding to the view of chap. 8. this gentleman without any cause is pleased to change the division of the second sort of schisme there handled , into another , which it seems was more sutable to his understanding , and then to make two light skirmishes against the discourse of that chapter . he begins thus , num. 2 in his 8th chapter , as farre as i understand , he divideth schisme into formal , that is , breach of unity ; and material , that is , breach of doctrine or customes , in which the church was united : the former he brancheth into subordination to the pope , of which enough hath been said ; and breach of the way provided by christ for maintaining the unity of faith , the which he puts in many subordinations without any effect , for let us ask , if inferior clergie-men dissent from their own bishops , but not from their metropolitan , in matter of faith , is it schisme ? he will answer , no : if a metropolitan dissent from his primate , but agree with the rest of the patriarchs , is it schisme ? i think he must say , no : if a patriarch dissent from the first , but agree with the rest , is it schisme ? no : if a nation or a bishop dissent from the rest of the general councel , is it schism ? still i believe he will answer , no : where then is schisme provided against ? or where truly is there any subordination in faith ? if none of these are subject , and bound to their superiors or vniversals in matters of faith ? num. 3 what my division there is , will be obvious enough to any man's understanding . in the third chap : the foundation had been laid in the opposition betwixt schisme and ecclesiastical vnity , and as the unity was the conserving all due relations , whether of subordination , or equality , wherein each member of christ's church is concerned one toward another , so there were two prime branches of schisme , the one against the subordination which christ setled in his church , the second against the mutual charity , which he left as his legacy among christians . and the former of these being discussed at large in order to the present debate , in the 8. chapter , the method led me to the latter of them , to consider schisme , as it is an offence against the mutual unity , peace , and charity , which christ left , and prescribed among christians ; and that i might be sure not to streighten the bounds of this sort of schism , or omit any thing , that can , by any rule of discourse , be placed in the borders or confines of it , by the meanes either to lay charge on us , or render our vindication the clearer , i distributed it into as many parts , as in my opinion the matter could by any be thought to beare , i. e. into three species , 1. a breach in the doctrines or traditions ( together with the institutions of christ , his apostles , and the primitive church , whether in government , or observances . ) 2. an offence against external peace or communion ecclesiastical . 3. the want of that charity which is due from every christian to every christian . the first of these againe subdivided and considered , 1. in the grosse , as it is a departing from the rules appointed by christ for the founding and upholding unity of doctrine , &c. 2. in particular , the asserting of any particular doctrine , contrary to christ's and the apostolical pure churches establishment . num. 4 the scheme being thus laid as regular , and as comprehensive , as i could devise 1. here is not one word said to expresse any cause of dislike or exception to it ; and yet 2. it is quite laid aside , and another of formal and material schisme , &c. substituted instead of it , upon what temptation or designe , save onely a willingnesse to gaine somewhat by the shuffle and confusion , more than the distinctnesse of discourse could yeild him , i cannot divine . num. 5 as it is , i yet discern not the particular advantages he had in his intuition , but suppose them latent and reserved ; for to his special discovery that he means to make by asking ( and supposing answers to ) many questions proportionable to the several links in the subordination , the account will be easie enough , that as long as any particular bishop remains in the due subordination to his canonical superiors , so long the departure of any clergie man that is under his jurisdiction , from that obedience which canonically he owes him , is in him that is thus guilty of it , an act of schisme . num. 6 but then i , when instead of departure he puts dissent ( which may belong to light matters , wherein liberty of dissent from superiors , is yeilded to all men , or to greater matters , without departing from obedience or communion ) this is not fairly done , this difference having a visible influence on the matter . num. 7 secondly , when of the clergie-man's dissent from his own bishop , he makes me answer that it is not schisme , if it be not from his metropolitan , i never gave him my letter of proxie to doe so : but on the other side , if the dissent be supposed to be improved into a departure ( which alone makes schisme ) i shall not doubt to pronounce it schisme , unlesse he have first made his appeal from his bishop to his metropolitan , and by him and his councel of bishops be adjudged to be in the right , and then if his bishop by that judgment be reduced to order , he may not , he cannot again without schisme depart from him . num. 8 thirdly , when from primates he ascends to patriarchs , as if that latter had a power superiour to the former , and again from the l'atriarchs to the first patriarch , i. e. the bishop of rome , this he knows hath no place with us , who acknowledge no power of any patriarch above a primate , no supremacie over all in the bishop of rome , but yet allow them and him ( proportionably to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if that will content him ) that primacie of order , which by the antient canons , is allowed them . num. 9 fourthly , whatsoever concerning these several steps from the lowest clergie man to the first of patriarchs , he phansies to be answered by us ; and from thence concludes , that then schism is no way provided against , is visibly much more true of any romanist ; for certainly if he dissent not from the bishop of rome , it must be no schisme , in him though he dissent from his own bishop , his own archbishop , primate , and patriarch , and if he doe dissent from him , 't is not his consenting with all his inferior governors , that will stand him in stead for his vindication . num. 10 and therefore if what he hath formed against me by his making answer himself to his own questions , be found really to conclude ( as he saith it doth ) against all subordination , 't is now evident , who is most blameable for it , he doubtlesse , that hath divolved all into the monarchike supremacy of the pope , and permits us not to consider , what any other our immediate superiors require of us . num. 11 lastly , what he puts into my mouth by way of answer , concerning subordination to a general councel , that if a nation or bishop dissent from the rest of a general councel , still it is not schisme , unlesse , as i said , there be deceit in substituting the word dissent , for departure or recession , i shall no way acknowledge the answer which he believes i will make ; for certainly i acknowledge , as much as he , or any man , the authority of a general councel against the dissents of a nation , much more of a particular bishop . and these were misadventures enough to be noted in one paragraph . sect. ii. the sufficiency of the few heads resolved on by the apostles . the notion of fundamentals . the canon of ephesus concerning it . the definition of the councel of florence . many churches have not betrayed this trust . christian practice to be super-added . the few things preserved by tradition . num. 1 next he proceeds to another part of the discourse of that chapter , concerning the heads resolved on by the apostles , in order to planting christian life , and to that he thus offers his exceptions . num. 2 but , saith the doctor , the apostles resolved upon some few heads of special force and efficacy to the planting of christian life through the world , and preaching and depositing them in every church of their plantation . truly i doe not know what a catholick professeth more , so that by the word few , he meaneth enough to forme a religion , and christian life , and will shew us a church which hath not betrayed the trust deposited ; for if there be none , what availeth this depositing ? if there be any , cleare it is that it preserved it by tradition ; if there be a question whether it hath or no , againe i demand to what purpose was the depositing , so that if the doctor would speak aloud , i doubt he would be subject to as much jealousie , as he saith grotius was . num. 3 that what i affirme , as he confesseth conformably , to the catholikes profession , may be as full and explicite as he can desire , i doubt not to expresse my meaning to be , that the few heads , that the apostles resolved on , were sufficient both for number and efficacy , or in * athanasius his language , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sufficient for the averting all impiety , and establishment of all piety in christ ; and for his satisfaction therein , i referre him to the treatise of fundamentals , printed since that of schisme , of which the onely designe was to insist on this , as the grand notion of fundamentals , such as were by the apostles and christ himselfe , deemed most proper and effectual to plant christian life in a world of jewes , and gentiles , and briefly to set downe and enumerate all those that the apostles thought thus necessary . num. 4 to which i shall now adde one observation , that this sufficiency of the foundation by them laid and somewhat explained ( on occasion of heretical opposers ) by the councel of nice , &c. was such , that the ephesine councel following that of nice , 106. yeares , made a decree , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. that it should not be lawfull for any man to produce , write , 〈◊〉 compose any beliefe beside that which was establisht by the fathers at nice , and that they which should dare to compose or offer any such to any that would from gentilisme , judaisme , or whatever heresie convert to the ackcowledgment of the truth , if they were bishops , should be deposed from their bishopricks , if laymen , anathematised , &c. can. 7. num. 5 and this authority being prest by the greeks to the latines , in the council of * florence , and that with this smart expression , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , no man will accuse the faith ( that which those fathers had profest ) or charge it of imperfection , unlesse he be mad , concil . l. 7. p. 642. a. the latines answer is but this , that that canon did not forbid , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , another explication agreeable to the truth contained in that crede , acknowledging that it did forbid 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , difference as well as contrariety ( pag. 644. b ) and even for such a bare explication they counted not that lawfull for any but the fathers convened in o ecumenical synods , citing it from aquinas , 2a . 2 ae . qu : 1 : ar . 10. and adding that he spake , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of any creed whatsoever which was common to the whole church . num. 6 and accordingly there followes out of the epistle of celestine to nestorius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the beliefe delivered by the apostles requires neither addition nor diminution . num. 7 in all which , how they are concerned , who impose so many new articles of beliefe upon their owne churches , and upon all that desire communion with them , i leave to each romanist to consider , ann shall onely adde the words of the catechism taken out of the workes of costerus , petrus de soto , and others , and set out by command of the archbishop of triers , resp . ad 2. qu. neque ulla unquam ex titit haresis , quae non hoc symbolo damnari potuerit , there was never any heresie which might not be condemned by the apostles creed . it were well we might be allowed the benefit of this tryal . num. 8 and now having given this pledge of my readinesse to answer his questions , though i discern not any obligation , arising from my former discourse , to lye upon me , yet i shall not be so nice or sparing of my paines , as to deny him a clear account also of his subsequent demands , but shall speak as loud as he would wish , and tell him first to the first demand , that as to those few heads i spoke of , i can , blessed be god , shew him churches enough , which have not betrayed the trust deposited ; the church of england , even now , under the saddest persecution , hath not been tempted to betray that trust , the church of rome , through all the prosperity and splendor , and grandeur , which it hath long injoyed , and which , the historian tells us , acrioribus stimulis animum explorant , hath as yet held out thus farre : i meane hath retainnd those few head● , and in that respect is not accused by us to have betrayed that trust ( i wish it were as blamelesse in all things else , particularly in that wherein our present debate is most concerned , in imposing new articles of faith on all christians , and her own infallibility for the first of them . ) num. 9 the same i can as freely affirm of all other national churches , that i know of , confining my discourse still to the small ( yet in the apostles opinions sufficient ) number of heads of special force to the planting of christian life through the world . num. 10 and so as this gentleman is much disappointed in his expectation , that i should not be able to name any church that hath not betrayed the trust deposited , so i must professe to him , i think it as reasonable , that they that agree in believing and conserving those few pretious heads of truth , designed to so glorious an end , as is the peopling a world with a peculiar colonie of inhabitants , all uniformly zealous of good workes , should all joyne hands and hearts , to adde that superstructure to the foundation , pure , immaculate , elevated , heroical , i. e. christian practice , to the untainted beliefe of these few things . num. 11 and then how much blame ( by force of that canon of ephesus ) most justly belongs unto them that make it their great interest to quarrel , divide from , and anathematize , all others , who cannot believe all other things which they chance to believe , though they know they agree with them in all that the apostles thus thought necessary to be agreed in ; & indeed how contrary this is , and destructive to this superstructure , of which charity in one principall ingredient , and so to the designe of laying the foundation , though not to the foundation it selfe , i shall leave this gentleman and every sober christian to consider , and if he judge not as i doe , yet i shall not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 number it among the prodigies of the age , or indeed thinke stranger of it , than i have long done of the great distance betwixt reason and passion in the same sort of creatures , man , and ( god knowes too oft ) in the same individual creature , the same man and christian . num. 12 having gone thus farre in ready obedience to this gentlemans lightest intimation of his pleasure , in satisfaction to his first demand , i shall in the same humour proceed without all reserve to the next , doubting as little as he , but that these few things ( all justice must allow our discourse to he coherent , and so to adhere to the same subject with which we began ) have been preserved in each church by tradition , and then to the third , that there is no place of doubt concerning the fact , and so of question , whether they have or no , and if by thus speaking aloud to every of his demands , i render my selfe subject to as much jealousie as i say grotius was , i shall not accuse him as my tempter , but onely support and comfort my self , that i have retained as much innocence as i alwaies thought grotius had done , and by declaring my meaning thus clearly , and professing that i mean no whit more than i say , i see no place for jealousie remaining to any . num. 13 if to believe the apostles creed to be conveyed down to us by tradition in every national church from the apostles time to this , be any heresie , i am visibly guilty of it , and need not have my words put upon the rack ( as grotius's have been ) to extort a more explicite confession from them . sect. iii. submission without opinion of infallibility . the appeal to the fathers of the first 300 years , and the four general conncels , to what it belongs . the silence of the first times no advantage to the romanist . two questions of additaments to faith ; the way of debating each of them . num. 1 his last exception to this chapter is to our profession of humility and temper , which it seems those of our religion must not be permitted to assume to themselves ( and which i was no farther so insolent to assume , than as it is observable in the peculiarity of the frame of the church of england's reformation ) thus , num. 2 i cannot but admire indeed the great temper he professeth men of his religion have , in choosing of doctrines , to wit , their submission to the three first ages , and the four first councels , but i confesse it is a humility i understand not , first to professe , they know not whether their teachers say true or no ( that is , that they are fallible ) and then to hold under pain of damnation what they say . another piece of their humility is in submitting to ages , where very few witnesses can be found , in regard of the rarity of the authors and the little occasion they had to speak of present controversies . a third note of humility is , that whereas the fourth councel was held about the midst of the fift age , these lovers of truth will stand to it , but not to the fourth age precedent , or that very age in which it was held , so humble they are to submit to any authority , that toucheth not the questions in present controversie , but where doe they finde christ's church shall be judge in three ages , and fail in the fourth , or that the councels in the fift age shall be sound , but not the fathers . num. 3 it is very hard , it seems , to please this gentleman . our humility is one while by him censured as really too great , another while the want of it is our crime , and we equally to be scoffed at on both accounts . num. 4 it is a criminous excesse of humility forsooth , to submit to those , of whom we first professe not to know that they are infallible . but as long as we doe verily believe they doe actually affirm truth , why may we not submit to them , though we know not that they are infallible ? for certainly i may submit to my natural , or civil parent in this manner , obey him in all his commands ( supposing , as now i doe , that none of his commands are by me apprehended to be unlawful , as none of these councels definitions , as by us believed to be , contrary to the word and will of god ) though yet i neither account him inerrable nor impeccable . but of this i have spoken already chap : i. sect. 3. num. 5 what he adds of holding under pain of damnation what they say , is in this place an insertion of this gentleman's , no word being said of it in that section , to which his words are confronted , and having elsewhere spoken to that , i abstain from adding more at this time . num. 6 in the next place it seems our humility is too scanty , for when i have submitted to be judged by the scriptures , the consent of the first 300 years , or the four general councels , whether we have departed from the apostolical doctrines or traditions , this , saith he , is submitting to ages where very few witnesses can be found &c. but i desire it may be remembred , what there i speak of , ( for perhaps this gentleman's haste hath not permitted him to advert to it ) the contesting or innocence in this , that we of the church of england have not departed from the apostolick doctrine and traditions ; and for this whether could the appeal more properly be directed , than to the scriptures , the conservatorie of the apostles written doctrine , and the three first centuries , the conservatorie of their traditions , it being unimaginable that any thing should be so per saltum conveyed to us from the apostles , as to leap over those three centuries next to them , without leaving any footstep discernible among them . num. 7 for let the witnesses of those times , the authors that remain to us be never so few , yet unlesse by some of their hands we be directed what the apostles delivered to them , how can we know what was delivered ? it being all one in this respect not to be , as not to appear , tradition , even apostolical , being no more than an empty name , unlesse we suppose our selves able to avouch some competent testifiers of the tradition . num. 8 and if to these two , i have added the four general councels , because they were held against the great disturbers of the unity of the faith , and they maintained the true faith by these two special weapons , the scriptures and tradition , testified by the first writers , and our church hath taken in their creed● into our liturgies , and their definitions into our articles of religion , and so i have by that appeal so farre testified our non departure from the faith , i hope there is no offence in this , no degree of defect in our humility . num. 9 as for the little occasion these first had to speak of the present controversies , that sure cannot be objected against our procedure ( any more than the paucity of the authors could ) for if the romanist doe but grant this one thing , it will be found a real prejudice to his pretensions , if ( which was the point in hand ) the question be , whether the church of england have departed from the unity of the apostolick faith , denied any apost●lick doctrine or tradition . num. 10 for in this controversie how shall it be proved , that we have departed , unlesse that doctrine or tradition being specified what it is , it be evidenced also , that it was delivered by the apostles , and how can that be evidenced , but by those which within some competent distance of their time , affirm that from them , and how can they be pretended to affirm that , if it be granted of them that they had no occasion to speak of it , and so are utterly silent in it . num. 11 to his last note of humility i. e. the next expression of his scoptical humor , there can be no need of applying any answer , it being no where intimated in that treatise that we are not ready to stand to the fourth age , or that wherein the fourth councel was held ; all that was said , was , that the three first ages , and the four general councels were competent witnesses of the apostolical doctrines and traditions , and i desire any man to name any other that were more competent to this purpose , i. e. to testifie what the apostles taught , it being certain that whosoever doth ( not by inspiration ) tell us any thing of that kinde , must assume to tell it from them , and as evident that all those things ( that even now were spoken of ) which the apostles resolved on , as heads of special force to form religion and christian life , were by this means conveyed to us . num. 12 mean while other matters there are , which we look on as additaments to the doctrines of faith , and so are the subject of a double question , 1. whether they be parts of that faith which was once , or at once delivered to the saints , 2. whether not appearing to be so , there be any other just reason to believe , though but by an humane faith , that they have any truth in them . num. 13 now of these two questions , as the resolution of the former depends upon those ages , which alone can conveigh tradition to the succeeding , and so still for that we referre our selves to the former vmpirage , so of the second , i did not then , because i had not occasion to speak in that place . num. 14 and if my answer be required now , i shall readily give it , that in matters of this nature the opinions of the fathers of the church in the most flourishing ages of it , wherein their writings are most voluminous , and their learning in theologie most venerable , are with us of great weight and consideration ; we doe ( and shall upon all occasions demonstrate our selves to ) allow them as full an authority , pay as great and true a reverence to their judgments , indevour as uniformly to conform our selves to the declarations of their sense , as any sober romanists are by us discerned to doe , or as it can be their interest to doe , in respect of the controversies that lie between us . and so still i discern not , wherein our humility can be judged to fail by those , with whom i now dispute , being content that it should by others be judged excessive . chap. ix . an answer to the exceptions made to the ninth chapter . sect. i. the hinderances of communion imputable to the romanist , not to us . siquis ecclesiam non audierit , one of our grounds . what is meant by ecclesia . num. 1 the exceptions to this chapter are not very great , whether we respect their weight or number , yet upon the same account that the former have been our exercise , these may for a while detain us also . num. 2 in his 9th chap : saith he , he pretendeth the roman catholick church is cause of this division , because they desire communion , and cannot be admitted , but under the belief and practice of things contrary to their consciences , of which two propositions , if the second be not proved , the first is vain , and is as if a subject should plead he is unjustly outlawed , because he doth not desire it : now to prove the latter , he assumeth that the protestant is ready to contest his negatives , by grounds that all good christians ought to be concluded by , what he means by that , i know not , for that they will convince their negatives by any ground , a good christian ought to be concluded by , i see nothing lesse . what then will they contest it by ? all grounds a good orthodox christian ought to be concluded by ? if they answer in the affirmative , we shall ask them whether siquis ecclesiam non audierit be one of their grounds , and if they say no , we shall clearly disprove their major , but then their defence is , if any ground , or rule of it self firm and good , speaketh nothing clearly of a point in question , they will contest that point by those grounds , and is not this a goodly excuse ? num. 3 the designe of chap : 9. of the treatise of schisme , is to vindicate us from all guilt of schisme , as that signifies offence against external peace and communion ecclesiastical , and it being certain that we exclude none from our communion , that acknowledge the foundation , and that we desire to be admitted to the like freedome of external communion , with all members of all other christian churches , the result is visible , that the hinderances , that obstruct this freedome , are wholly imputable to the romanist , such are their excommunicating us , and imposing conditions on their communion , such as we cannot admit of without sin , or scandal , acting contrary to conscience , or making an unsound confession . num. 4 to this all that is answered is , that unlesse this second be proved , viz : that such conditions are by them imposed on their communion , the first , that of our desire of communion , is vain ; and to this i make no doubt to yeild , for if we may with a good conscience be admitted to their communion , and yet wilfully withdraw our selves from it , then i confesse there is no place for this plea of ours ; but for the contesting of this , there was not then , neither will there now be any place , without descending to the severals in difference between us ( which was beyond the designe either of those , or these papers ) and therefore for that all that can be said is , that we are ready to maintain our negatives , by grounds that all good christians ought to be concluded by ; and because it is here askt , whether siquis ecclesiam non audierit be one of those grounds , i answer without question it is , and so is every other affirmation of christ , or the apostles , however made known to us to be such . and i cannot sufficiently admire , why , when it is known to all romanists , that we are ready to be judged by scripture , and when it is certain that siquis ecclesiam non audierit ] are the words of scripture , he should suppose ( as here he doth ) that we will say , no : i. e. that we will refuse to be tried or concluded by that . num. 5 here i must suppose that by ecclesiam he understands the roman ( which he calls catholick ) church ; but then this interpretation or understanding of his , is one thing , and those words of christ are another , for they belonging to the church indefinitely , under which any man , that hath offended , is regularly placed , doe to a member of the particular roman church signifie that , as to an english man the church wherein he lives , and that , is not the roman , or the vniversal church of god , and that is more than the roman . num. 6 and so by acknowledging that ground of scripture , we are no way obliged to believe all that that particular church of rome , to which we owe no obedience ( and are as ready to contest that by the same means also ) exacts of us . num. 7 as for our contesting any point by that ground or rule which speaketh nothing clearly of it , i gave him no occasion to make any such objection against us , and withall have said what was sufficient to it chap. 8. sect. 3. n. 7. and so need not here farther attend to it . chap. x. an answer to the exceptions made to the tenth chapter . sect. i. the romanists want of charity wherein it consists . num. 1 in his view of chap : 10. he takes notice of two charges by us brought in against them , 1. judging , 2. despising their brethren , but contents himself with a very brief reply , and that onely to one of them , thus , num. 2 in his 10th chap : he saith , we judge them and despise them ; as to the first i have often wondred , and doe now , that men , pretending to learning and reason , should therein charge us with want of charity , for if our judgment be false , it is error , not malice , and whether true or false , we presse it upon them out of love and kindnesse , to keep them from the harm , that according to our belief may come upon them , but since they deny they are schismaticks , and offer to prove it , we must not say it : yet i think we ought , untill we have cause to believe them , since our highest tribunal , the churches voice , from which we have no appeal , hath passed judgment against them . num. 3 the want of charity , with which we charge the romanist in this matter , is not their warning us of our danger , which may reasonably be interpreted love , and kindness , and care to keep us from harm , and if they erre in admonishing , when there is no need of it , there is nothing still but charity in this ; but it is their casting us out of their communion on this score , that we consent not to all their dictates , that we withdraw our obedience from those , who without right usurped it over us , their anathematizing and damning us , and being no way perswadable to withdraw these sanguinary censures , unlesse we will change or dissemble our beliefs , and as there cannot be charity in this , any thing that can tend to the mending of any , for how can it be deemed any act of reformation in any , to forsake his present perswasions , whilst he is not convinced of any error in them , and surely the bare damning of us is not any such matter of conviction ; so there is a double uncharitableness , 1. of being angry without cause , and expressing that anger in very ill language , of which that of heretick and schismatick is the mildest , and each of those causlesse too , if they be affixt to any particular man , much more to a whole church , before either of them be sufficiently proved against us : for certainly as the romanist's judgment concerning us , if it be false , may yet be but error not malice ( by which this gentleman here justifies himself from want of charity ) so our opinions and perswasions of the erroneousness of their doctrines and sinfulness of their practices , if possibly they be not true also , are still as justly and equitably capable of the same excuse , that they are involuntary errors , and then by their own rule , cannot justly fall under such their rigid censures , which belong to none but voluntary offenders . num. 4 secondly , the indevouring to insnare and pervert fearful or feeble minds , using these terrors , as the lyon doth his roaring , to intimidate the prey , and make it not rationally but astonishtly , fall down before them . and as the offering due grounds of conviction to him that is in error may justly be deemed charity , so this tender of nothing but frights , without offer of such grounds of conviction , is but leading men into temptation to sin against conscience , to dissimulation &c. and so the hating the brother in the heart , lev. 19. the more than suffering sin upon him . num. 5 to these might be , not unseasonably , added a farther consideration , which hath carried weight with the fathers of the church in all times , that seeing the censures of the church were left there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for edification not for destruction , and are onely designed to charitative ends , ( must never be used to any other purpose ) therefore when obedience it utterly cast off , the band , be it of subordination or co-ordination so broken , that the issuing out of censures cannot expect to compose , but onely to widen the breach , not to mollifie but exasperate , there christian prudence is to indevour by milder waies , what severity is not likely to effect , and so the thunderbolts to be laid up , till there may be some probability of doing good by them . num. 6 but this is not the case , as it really lies betwixt rome and us , save onely as à majori it may be accommodated to us ; we have cast off neither obedience to any , to whom it was due , nor charity to those , who have least to us , nor truth , to the utmost of our understandings , and yet we must be cast out and anathematized , and after all that , condemned as wilful schismaticks , i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dividers and condemners of our selves , because we quietly submit to that fate , which will cost us too dear , the wounding and disquiet of our conscience , to qualifie our selves for a capacity of getting out of it . num. 7 what he adds of their highest tribunal , the churches voice , which hath passed this judgment against us , belongs i suppose to those bishops of rome , which have sent out their bulls against us , and therefore i must in reason adde , that those are principally guilty of this schisme , and so their successors principally obliged to retract and reform the sin of it , and after them , all others in the order and measure , that they have partaked in this guilt with them . num. 8 and there can be no greater charity than to beseech all in the bowels of christ to return to the practice of that charity , which hath too long been exiled from among christian professors . chap. xi . an answer to the exceptions made to the last chapter . sect. i. of the present state of the church of england . the catholicks promise for eternity to his church . roma aeterna . particular churches perishable . mr. hooker's prediction of the church the power of the secular magistrate to remove bishops sees , not to make bishops . the councel of florence concerning the popes supremacy &c. marcus's opinion of it . joseph : methonens : his answer briefly examined . num. 1 the last part of this gentleman's indevour is to perswade men that the church of england is not onely persecuted but destroyed , and of that he means to make his advantage to fetch in proselytes , being out of his great charity very sensible of their estate , unwilling they should sit any longer in the vault or charnel house to communicate with shades , when they are invited to a fairer sunshine , in a vital and very flourishing society . thus then he begins his reply to the 11th chapter , num. 2 in the last chapter he complaineth of the catholicks for reproaching them with the losse of their church , and arguing with their disciples in this sort ; communion in some church , even externally , is necessary , but you cannot now communicate with your late church , for that hath no subsistence , therefore you ought to return to the church from whence you went out ▪ truly in this case i think they ought to pardon the catholick who hath , or undoubtedly is perswaded he hath a promise for eternity to his church , and experience in the execution of that promise for 16 ages , in which none other can compare with him , and sees another church judged by one of the learnedst and most prudent persons confessedly that ever was among them , to be a building likely to last but 80 years , and to be now torn up by the roots , and this done by the same means by which it was setled ; i say if this catholick believe his eyes , he is at least to be excused ; and though i know the doctor will reply his church is still in being , preserved in bishops and presbyters rightly ordained , yet let him remember how inconsequent this is , to what be hath said before , for ask him how it doth remain in being , if there be no such bishops or presbyters among them , for his defense against the church of rome is , that the secular authority hath power to make and change bishops and presbyters : from whence it will follow , that as they were set up by a secular authority , so are they pulled down , and unbishoped by another secular authority ; if it be said the parliament that pulled them down had not the three bodies requisite to make a parliament , no more had that which set them up , for the lords spiritual were wanting both in parliament and convocation , so that there was as much authority to pull them down as to set them up : but it will be replied that though they are pulled down , yet are they still bishops , viz : the character remains upon them . alas what is their character , if their mission of preaching and teaching be extinguished , which follows their jurisdiction , which jurisdiction the doctor makes subject to the secular authority , so that whatsoever characters their bishops and presbyters pretend to have , they have according to his principles no power over the laity , and so no character can be made of any bishop as head and pastor , and of the people as body and flock , and consequently their church is gone . but we account our selves bishops and priests not from an authority dependent upon princes , or inherited from augustus or nero , but from peter and paul , and so shall stand and continue , whatsoever princes or secular powers decree ; when they according to their doctrines and arguments are not to wonder if they be thrown down by the same authority that set them up , and as the synagogue was a church to have an end , so is this with this difference , that the synagogue was a true church in reference to a better , but this is a counterfeit & tyranical one to punish a better . as concerning the doctors prayer for peace and communion , all good people will joyne with him , if he produce fructus dignos poenitentiae , especially i he acknowledge the infallibility of the church , and supremacy of the pope , the former is explicated sufficiently in divers books , the latter is expressed in the councel of florence in these words , viz. we define that the holy apostolical see , and the bishop of rome have the primacy over all the world , and that the bishop of rome is successor to s. peter , the prince of the apostles , and truly christs vicar , and head of the whole church , and the father and teacher of all christians , and that there was given him in saint peter from christ a full power to feed , direct and governe the catholike church : so farre the councel . without obeying this , the doctor is a schismatick , and without confessing the other , an heretick , but let him joyne with us in these , all the rest will follow . num. 3 i shall not here repeat my complaint ( if it were indeed such , and not rather a bare proposing of a last foreseen objection against us ) knowing how little compassion any sufferings of ours may expect to receive from this gentleman , i shall onely joyne issue with his tenders of proof , that our church hath now no subsistence ; but yet before i doe so , take notice of one part of his arguing , viz. that the catholike hath , or is undoubtedly perswaded he hath a promise for eternity to his church . where certainly the fallacie is very visible , and sufficient to supersede ( if he shall advert to it ) his undoubted perswasion . for what promise of eternity can this gentleman here reflect on ? undoubtedly that of the church of christ indefinitely , that the gates of hell shall not prevaile against it , mat. 16. 18. num. 4 what is the full importance of that phrase is * elsewhere largely shewed , and need not be here any farther repeated , than that the promise infallibly belongs not to any particular church , of any one denomination , but to the whole body , christ will preserve to himselfe a church in this world , as long as this world lasteth , in despight of all the malice , cunning , or force of men , and devills . num. 5 now that this is no security , or promise of eternity to any particular church , whether of rome or england , any more than of thyatira or laodicea ( which contrary to any such promise , is threatned to be spued out , rev. 3. 16. ) is in it self most evident , because the destroying any one particular church is reconcileable with christs preserving some other , as the species of mankinde is preserved , though the gentleman and i should be supposed to perish , and because the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 my church , which is there the subject of the discourse , is not the romanist ( or in that sense the catholike ) his church , as is here suggested , but the church of christ built upon the foundation of the apostles , of which simon is there said to be one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e stone or foundation-stone , so as he was of other churches , beside that of rome , and so as others were of other churches , which he never came neere , and even of this of rome , saint paul as well as he . num. 6 from hence therefore , by force of this promise ( which as truly belongs to every church , as it doth to rome , but indeed belongs to no particular , but to the christian church , to conclude that the church of rome is eternall , is a first ungrounded perswasion in this gentleman , the very same , as to conclude a particular is an universal , or that the destruction of one part is the utter dissolution of the whole ; and the proof from experience of 16. ages , which is here added , is a strange way of argumentation , such as that methusalem might have used the very day before his death , to prove that he should never dye , and the very same that heathen rome did use , at the time of their approaching destruction , calling her selfe * vrbem aeternam , the eternali city , and † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rome the heaven-city , and * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rome a goddesse , which accordingly had by adrian a temple erected to it , and the emperors thereof , and the very name of the place worshipt as a deity ( more deae , nomenque loci seu numen adorant ) and all this upon this one score , that it had stood and prospered so long . num. 7 the like may be affirmed of the church of the jewes , built upon a promise , which had more of peculiarity to the seed of abraham , than this of mat. 16. can be imagined to have to the church of rome , and yet that church was destroyed , and nothing more contributed to the provocation , and merit of that destruction , than their owne confidence of being unperishable . the best admonition in this respect , is that of the apostle , be ye not high minded but feare , and if god spared not the natural branches , take heed also lest he spare not you ; and this gentleman cannot be ignorant what * church it was , that was then capable of this exhortation . and the very making this matter of argument , and in this respect ( not of purity , but of duration ) exalting the romanist's church , above all other churches in these words [ none other can compare with him , ] as it is one character which determines the speech to the particular church of rome , ( for else how can he speak of others and affirme that they cannot compare ) so it is no very humble , or consequently christian expression in this gentleman . num. 8 what he addes out of master hooker , and applies as the judgement of that learned man concerning the church of england , yeilds us these farther observations , 1. that in all reason this gentleman must in his former words speak of his church of rome , as that is a particular church , for else how can he after his church , name another church , meaning this of england , of which saith he , mr. hooker speaks ? and that will conclude the evident falsity of his assumption , that by christ's promise eternity belonged to it , for that it cannot doe to any particular church , because the vniversal may be preserved , when that is destroyed , and the promise being made indefinitely to the church , may be performed in any part of it . num. 9 secondly , that a very small matter will serve turne with this gentleman , to support a con lusion , which he hath a mind to inferre , otherwise master hookers testimony had never been produced to this matter . the words of that ( truly ) most learned and prudent person , are to be found in his fifth book , num. 79. in the conclusion . the subject of that whole paragraph , beginning pag. 424. is of oblations , foundations , endowments , tithes , all intended for the perpetuity of religion , which was in his opinion sure to be frustrated , by alienation of church livings , and this being largely handled by him throughout that paragraph , at length he observes , 1. what waste covetousnesse had made in the church by such commutations , as were proportionable to glaucus's change , giving the church flanel for gold : and 2. how religion it self was made a sollicitor and perswader of sacrilege , signifying , that to give to god , is error , and to take it away againe reformation of error , concluding in these words , by these or the like suggestions received with all joy , and with like sedulity practised in certain parts of the christian world , they have brought to passe , that as david doth say of man , so it is in danger to be verified concerning the whole religion and service of god , the time thereof may peradventure fall out to be threescore and ten yeers , or if strength doe serve unto fourescore , what followeth , is likely to be small joy for them , whosoever they be that behold it . thus have the best things been overthrowne , not so much by puissance and might of a versaries , as through defect of councel in them that should have upheld and defended the same . num. 10 this is the first importance of that place which the gentleman hath so disguised in his abbreviation . mr. hooker foretells what a destructive influence , sacrilege may have on the whole religion and service of god , observes in certain parts of the christian world ( without naming any ) that sacrilegious suggestions are received with all joy , and putting these two together , presageth sad events to the whole religion , and service of god , within threescore and ten , or fourescore yeares , and from hence this gentleman concludes it master hooker's judgement , that the church of england was a building likely to last but fourescore yeares . num. 11 in what mode and figure this conclusion is thus made from the premisses , he leaves us to divine , who have not sagacity enough to discern it ; the conclusion to all mens understanding will most regularly follow thus , that the church of england was so constituted , that all the enemies thereof on either side were never likely to destroy it by arguments , and consequent'y that the most probable way remaining to satan to accomplish his designe was , by sacrilegious violations to impoverish and subdue the maintainers of it , which as he foresaw very likely to come to passe within the age of a man , so it would be no joyfull sight when it should come , he was not so unkinde to any part of the church of god , as to be willing to live to see it . num. 12 and if this gentleman's inclinations have qualified him for the receiving pleasure or joy in such a spectacle , i shall as little envy him the prosperity which hath thus petrified his bowels , as he shall think fit to envy me the honour of being a member of the purest ( being withall the most persecuted ) church . num. 13 thirdly , that these words of mr. hooker thus pitifully distorted are the onely proof he hath for his assertion , that this church of ours hath now no subsistence , and that it is now torn up by the roots , a way of arguing very conformable to his characters of a true church , of which external glory and prosperity must never misse to be one , but very unlike the image of christ the head , to which his church the body may be allowed to hold some proportion of conformity , for of him we can give no livelier pourtraiture , than as we finde him crucified between two thieves , whilst the souldiers divide his garments , though they were not over-sumptuous , and cast lots who shall have his vesture . num. 14 what next follows is an answer to a supposed objection of ours ( and that is a farther evidence of what i said , that mr. hooker's distorted speech is the onely proof of his proposition ) the objection is , that our church is still in being preserved in bishops and presbyters rightly ordained ; and to this objection he will make some answer from our own principles , of which he supposeth this to be one , that the secular authority hath power to make and change bishops and presbyters , and saith without any regrets , that this is my defence against the bishop of rome . num. 15 many replies might be made to take off all appearance of force from this answer . as 1. that this , to which the answer is accommodated , is not my objection . the truth is , i took not on me the objectors part in that place , but evidenced it by clear demonstration , that if twenty years agoe the church of england was a church , it must needs be so now , being the very same that then it was , except these bands , as the apostle once said , who i hope did not cease to be an apostle by being imprisoned . and when i mentioned the church of englands being preserved in bishops and presbyters rightly ordained , together with multitudes rightly baptized ( which sure are all the necessary ingredients in constituting a visible church ) i added , none of which have fallen off from their profession , and then foreseeing the onely possible objection to inferre the church guilty of schisme , i answered that by remembring the primitive persecutions and night-meetings , and the very manner of the romanists serving god in this kingdome for these many years . num. 16 and all this is pulled off from the clue , and fumbled together into an objection of mine , supposed to be made against that which the romanist , without either tender of proof , or reason , had crudely affirmed . but truly i may be believed , that i meant not that affirmation so much respect , as to offer objection against it : and then that is one speedy way of concluding this matter . num. 17 but then secondly , for that saying of mine , on which he will form his answer to this imaginary objection , 't is certain i never said any such thing , as is here suggested : that the supreme magistrate hath power to erect and translate patriarchates , and the like , i had affirmed indeed , i. e. to make that a patriarchal see , which had not formerly been such , so to ennoble a town or city , that according to the canons of the church it should become an episcopal , or archiepiscopal , or chief , or patriarchal see , and my meaning is evident , and not possible to be mistaken by any that understands the language , and adverts to what he reads . num. 18 but sure i never said that the secular authority hath power to make bishops and presbyters , and there is no question but this gentleman knows , if he hath read what he answers , that in the tract of schisme i never said it . num. 19 so again it is of daily practice in this church , as in all others , for the supreme power to change , as that signifies to remove bishops from one see to another , and so for every lay-patron in the same sense to change presbyters : but what is that to the making of bishops or presbyters , did ever king or lay-patron pretend to that ? this is too visible to need insisting on . num. 20 thirdly , when he saith there was as much authority to pull down bishops and presbyters in this nation as to set them up , i might demand , 1. whether he hath any reason to pretend that presbyters are now pulled down in this nation , for this is by him supposed , who inquires by what authority they are pulled down : 2. whether he can , either upon mine or his own principles , assume with any colour of truth , that none had any hand in setting up the bishops in this kingdome , but those whom here he affirms to have consented to the pulling them down , and consequently affirm , that there was as much authority to pull them down , as to set them up ? 3. whether it have any truth in it , ( whether he speak of what was done in parliament in king henry's , or king edward's , or queen elizabeth's daies ) that the lords spiritual were wanting both in parliament and convocation ? 4. what he hath said to make it in the least degree probable , that the bishops and presbyters mission of preaching and teaching is extinguished among us , any more than it was in the primitive church , when the emperour was not favourable to the profession , and when the jewes called it heresie : and lastly , whether , if no one of these can with any degree of verity be answered in the affirmative , this be not very immoderate liberty , which this gentleman hath given himself in affirming or supposing all these , and then adding , that our portion is to be lookt for with the jewish synagogue , as one , so the other , to have an end ; not considering that he hath as little skill in revealing secrets , as even now in interpreting mr. hooker's prophecy , that he cannot yet tell , what god hath within his veil decreed concerning our church , and which may yet make the greatest speed to follow the synagogue's fate , they which are cast down , but not destroyed , or they which ( to say no worse ) stand by , and rejoice at it . num. 21 the treatise of schisme concludes with a prayer for peace and communion , and for the matter of it , we have his seeming confession that all good people will joyne in it . but even in such a prayer , wherein all good people will joyne , this gentleman will not joyne with me , but upon such termes , which i shall not undertake , to qualifie me for his favour , i meane not the fructus dignos poenitentiae , such as john baptist would prescribe , but the penances of this severer confessor , to acknowledge the infallibility of the church in his notion of the church , supremacy of the pope , &c. num. 22 and all that i shall need to reply is , to beseech him that he will then , without joyning with me , pray in secret , what i began to him , and endeavour so to qualifie himselfe with charity and other graces , which may wing his prayers unto that holy place , where all humble christians supplications daily meet , and then i shall againe pray god , that i may be found in the number of those , that so i may be secured to meet and joyne with him , at that common throne of grace . num. 23 he is pleased to shut up all with an expression of the councel of florence , to the businesse of the popes supremacy . to this i might reply that this definition is there visibly subscribed , as the act of the bishop of rome , eugeni pp. iv. ( who was a liberall carver and definer for himselfe ) as may be seen in that very * page , where the words cited will be found , both by the seale of his pontificate there imprest , saint peter on the left hand , saint paul on the right , and eugenius pp. iv. under it : and by the last part of the date in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the ninth year of our pontificate ; which though i shall suppose to be the mode , the pope to pronounce the definition of the councel , yet this was much varied from the old form , and the councel being dated at florence , in the year of our lord 1439. so near rome , and so farre from the first times , where more simplicity and just distribution of rights might be expected , this might be a competent answer to this testimony , and a vindicating my self from all schisme or heresie , that my want of the obedience or confession , which he requires , might fix on me . num. 24 but i shall for this once , choose somewhat the longer way , and transcribe part of marcus the metropolitan of ephesus his answer , wherein he expresseth his opinion , and others , of that definition of the councel , as it lies in the * apologie of joseph methonensis for that councel , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we also account the pope as one of the patriarchs , but these doe with great gravity pronounce him vicar of christ , and father and teacher of all christians : and this both to them and us is matter of some wonder , how ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) with so much gravity , they could thus pronounce , what had so little of truth in it . num. 25 and it is worth recounting here , what for the justifying of that definition joseph methonensis was able to reply there to that bishop ( and that reply thought worthy to be inserted into the acts of the councel ) 1. that he doth not say that the pope is two or three , but onely one of the patriarchs , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , having praeeminence among those of the same order with him . num. 26 for this he hath , 1. chrysostome's authority in his 17 homilie on the acts , where , he saith , that among the seven there was one , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one above the rest ( and the seven there , were the seven deacons , and the same praeeminence that stephen then had over them , and all the rest of the world , we shall not deny the bishop of rome , especially if , as it follows there , he have the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more grace than all the other bishops , and will acknowledge , as it is there also , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the same ordination of him and all other bishops . ) num. 27 secondly , the saying of christ , that , he that heareth you , heareth me , and the common maxime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that every bishop is the successor of christ ( but then how came the bishop of rome to impropriate that title , to be the onely one that all are obliged to hear , when , as he confesses there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this was said in common to them all . ) num. 28 thirdly , the words of theodorus studita ( one , by the way , that had been imprisoned for opposing the bishop of constantinople , and who did not communicate with that church , see zonaras tom : 3. p. 9. & 102. ) to the emperor michael , that if he doubted of , or disbelieved any thing that had been there resolved , he should command a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 declaration or explication to be sent him from old rome , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , how from of old , and from the beginning it had been delivered by tradition of fathers , adding that that was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the uppermost of the churches of god , of which peter was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first that sate bishop there , unto whom christ said , thou art peter , &c. ( but all this still amounts to no more , but that rome was the prime apostolick see , that might very probably explicate a difficulty to the emperour , by telling what had been from time to time delivered , and believed in that church . ) num. 29 fourthly , the words of the same theodorus studita again , in his epistle to naucraticus , which speaks of some that had broken off themselves from the body of christ , from the chief see , in which christ placed the keyes of that faith , against which the gates of hell , the mouthes of hereticks had not , should not prevail , ( but then still , supposing his testimonie were authentick , this is no more , but that , they which divided from the true doctrine , which he supposed to be at rome , did in his opinion break off themselves from the body of christ , that rome again was the prime see , that it had the keyes of knowledge and faith intrusted to it by christ , at the apostles founding a church there , but this not exclusively to other churches , which doubtlesse had those keyes , as well as she , & that the faith of christ should never be utterly destroyed by hereticks . ) num. 30 fifthly , the words of arcadius a bishop in the third councel , that of ephesus , proposing that the words of coelestine the pope , who was to be named with all reverence , bishop of the apostolicall see , should be read , that they might see what care he had of all churches ( and why might not the like be said of any other truly christian bishop ? ) and so the like speech again of cyrill of alexandria , that the letter of coelestine , the most holy bishop of the holy apostolick church ( a title which belonged , and was ordinarily given to other sees , beside that of rome ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might be read with due honour or respect ( but sure that doth not prove his supreme power over all the churches of god. ) num. 31 lastly , the words of the emperor's letter ( called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a divine letter ) in the councel of chalcedon , that the most blessed bishop of the city of rome , to whom antiquity hath given 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , priesthood over all , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may have a place and power to judge of faith and of priests , from whence he roundly concludes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. seeing then he hath power to judge of faith and priests , he is justly defined by the councel of florence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the teacher of all christians . num. 32 this being the last and most probable , and indeed onely testimonie , to justifie with any colour of reason the definition of that councel , it is not amisse to consider it a little , and with that to conclude also the debate with this gentleman , as joseph methonensis there did with the bishop of ephesus . and if we turn to the acts of the councel of chalcedon , we shall soon discern the full weight of it . num. 33 there in the * first part , num : 25. we shall finde this letter , styled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sent by valentinian the emperour to theodosius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he would command a synod to be called in the parts of italy . this then was the subject of the letter , and this the occasion ; a second synod had lately been held at ephesus , in which the heresie of eutyches had received some assistance , upon this pope leo , and his synod of bishops met at rome , * writes earnestly to the emperor valentinian , that he will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 command 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a general councel to be called in the parts of italy , that may remove and mollifie all offences . the same he * again proposes to the emperour theodosius there , desiring 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a special councel to be convened in the parts of italy . hereupon soon follows a letter of valentinian to theodosius to the same purpose , in condescension to leo's request , and in it those very words ( recited by joseph methonensis in defence of the councel of florence ) to no other sense but this , that such a councel might be convened in italy , to review and reform what had been done amisse in that second councel of ephesus . num. 34 this therefore is the meaning of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that he may have a place and power ] that some place may be assigned him and the bishops , to meet in councel , that he may have power , or faculty , or commission to sit ( not he by himself , but he and the bishops in councel ) and when they sit , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to judge of faith and priests , as in all councels it is done , to define what is the true faith , opposed by hereticks , and what persons , bishops or others are fit to be censured for any thing done or taught by them . num. 35 this is the plain and onely importance of the place , to which all the rest of the epistle accords , that an vniversal councel should be called in italy , wherein the pope was doubtlesse to preside , and he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all other bishops also being convened from the whole world , should consider and define , what the true faith required . and so this is a faire testimonie to prove that the pope is the vicar of christ , the father and teacher of all christians . the conclusion . num. 1 i am now come to the close of this gentleman's answer in these words , thus , sir , you have my sense of doctor hammond's book in all the particulars , which , i think , to the purpose ; my time , nor the brevity fit for a letter , not permitting i should be more methodical , and doe rest your friend and humble servant , b. p. bruxels , the 30 march , 1654. num. 2 here he is pleased largely enough to assume the office of an aristarchus , and to involve under no light censure , of impertinency at the least , the farre greatest part of that treatise of schisme , for certainly that which he hath not offered any answer to , is such , and yet he here undertakes to have given his sense in all the particulars , which he thinks to the purpose , which must conclude it his opinion , that all other particulars are not to the purpose . this indeed is a performance somewhat above the promise of the title page , which obliged him to an answer of the most material parts of that treatise ; and it were very easie to shew that there is no degree of truth in either of these , that on the contrary , he hath not offered any word of reply to the most material , which i hope are not the least pertinent parts of that treatise . but instead of this larger reflexion it may suffice , that whatsoever he hath though fit to take notice of , and thereby hath expressed his judgment of it , that it is most material in comparison of the rest hath here been very particularly considered , and his answers manifested to have no force in them . and so i very friendly take my leave of him . the god of all grace and peace binde up the wounds of his bleeding church . an account of h. t. his appendix to his manual of controversies , concerning the abbot of bangor's answer to augustine . having concluded the foregoing reply to the catholick gentleman , i received news of a manual of controversies in the presse , wherein i was said to be particularly concerned , and having soon gotten a sight of it , i found that the matter was of no greater bulk or weight , than might receive an account in few words , & those most proper to be here annext , by way of appendix : at the folding up of that manual , the author of it is pleased to take notice of ( no more than ) one testimonie , which i had cited out of sir henry spelman's anglicane councels , containing an answer of the abbot of bangor to augustine the monk , when he demanded of the britains an acknowledgment of submission to the bishop of rome . the passage is to be seen at large , in welsh , english , and latine , in that tome of the councels , p. 108. and is recited in the treatise of schisme , p. 111. and the summe of it is , that he and the rest of the british church were under the government of the archbishop of caerleon upon vske , and owed no obedience ( or respect , save that of fraternal charity ) to the pope of rome . this answer of that abbot , the authour hath thought good to censure ( by way of appendix to the article concerning the pope's supremacy ) 1. as unapt to conclude against the romanist's pretensions concerning the papal power over the whole church . 2. as unworthily alledged by persons of any ordinary judgment or erudition . 3. as that which may easily be convicted to be a simple imposture , and the waies of demonstrating it clearly , promised in that insuing discourse . what those waies are , and how farre short of the force or evidence of demonstration , i shall , with the reader 's good leave , examine anon , after i have premised this one consideration , that the onely thing , which is by us contested , and concluded against the romanist from this testimonie , is a matter of fact of known truth , and such as the romanists themselves ( yea and this authour h. t. who hath thought sit to arraign this testimonie ) acknowledge to be such , and therefore , as in case this one testimonie should be demonstrated to be a simple imposture , we can very unconcernedly and easily part with it , standing in no manner of need of this auxiliarie , so it is a little strange that this authour should think it worth his solemn pains , to wrest it out of our hands , and dedicate this whole appendix to that one work , when if he were successfull to his wish ; his acquisitions hereby , and proportionably our losses , must be so unconsiderable . that which we conclude from hence against the romanist is no more but this , that the britains , particularly those of bangor , denied to yeild obedience to the pope upon augustine's demand of it . and for this we have the notoriousness of the fact , as it is set down by the authours which are of credit , and are vouched in this matter by the romanist , particularly by bede , in the second book of his ecclesiastick historie , c. 2. where the whole story may be read at large , and out of which i shall collect , and , in passing , clear these few things . first , that augustine and the british bishops met in councel at augustine's oake in worcestershire ; this passage lyes very corruptly in the latine bede , in loco ubi usque hodie linguâ anglorum augistinuzat , id est , robur augustini in confinio vectiorum & occidentalium saxonum appellatur . three corruptions i suppose there will soon appear to be in these words , which i shall briefly remove for the clearing of our entrance , and disabusing the authour of this manual in one of them . the first , and chief of them is , that augustinuzat is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mistaken for augustines-ac , i. e. augustines oake , whether that were the name of a tree , or a village , most probably the former , after the manner of that councel , which was held against s. chrysostome , called ordinarily the synod ad quercum , at , or under the oake . secondly , that [ ubi ] should be read [ qui ] which is an easie mistake , and so the construction will be facile , which now is rough , in loco qui usque hodie-augustines-ac appellatur , in the place which even to this day is called augustine's-ac , and accordingly the saxon reads on 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ac , in the place still named augustine's oake . thirdly , that vectiorum ( which the author of this appendix renders vectians , and interprets to be the isle of wight , quite against all probable conjecture , for how can it be believ'd that the britains should give him a meeting so farre from the place of their own present habitation ? ) should be wicciorum ( so * huntington reads it , and the saxon bede hpicna ) meaning worcestershire by that style , and accordingly this synod is by authors oft called wigorniensis synodus , the worcestershire synod ; and among the british bishops , who are recorded to be present at the second session , wiccensis , the bishop of worcester is one . in what part of that county it was that that synod convened , i see it is uncertain among our later writers , and so there may be place for conjecture , sir henry spelman from the map proposeth austric , as a probable contraction from austinsric , augustini ditio , as that which may give some light in a doubtfull matter , but upon inquiry i hear that that village is called aufric or alfric , not austric , and therefore i shall take confidence to mention , what seems to me farre more probable , that it was in the parish of merton , which hath the agnomen of vssentree , or ossentree , in old rolls , merton juxta ossentree , merton close by ossentree , an easie variation from , and contraction of austin tree , and is three miles from worcester , neer the rode to droitwich , where the hill-church is augustine's church . secondly , that the businesse of this convention , designed to draw the british to obedience to augustine & the see of rome , began with a proposition onely of conformity in the observation of easter , in the ceremonies of baptisme &c. but this in vain ; for , saith bede , after a long disputation they would give no assent to the intreaties , and exhortations and chidings of augustine , but preferred their own tradition before all the churches through the world , which accorded with rome in the particular of easter , &c. thirdly , that for the convincing of them , augustine challenged them to doe miracles , and by prayer to god cured a blinde man , and was much cried up for so doing , the british still adhering to their way , and answering him , that absque consensu & licentiâ suorum , without consent and licence of their whether rulers of church , or whatsoever other superiors also ( their metropolitan , i suppose , which cannot be thought to have been with them at this , being certainly none of the seven bishops , which are affirmed to have been present at the later convention ) they could not forsake their antient customes . fourthly , that upon proposall , it was agreed that they should have a second meeting , at which were present seven british bishops ( which other writers expresse to have been the bishop of hereford , landaff , bangor , s. assaph , worcester , paternensis , morganensis ) and many other learned men , especially de nobilissimo eorum monasterio , quod vocatur lingua anglorum bancornaburg , cui tempore illo dinooth abbas praefuisse narratur , of the famous monasterie of bangor , of which dinooth was abbot at that time . fifthly , that before they went to this meeting , they were advised by a religious person , whose directions they asked , to observe diligently the behaviour of augustine , when they came , whether he were meek and lowly in heart , a mark by which they might know whether he had taken christ's yoke upon him , and consequently whether it were the yoke of christ , which he now desired to impose upon them , and upon augustine's fitting still upon his stool or seat , and never rising up with any civility or humility , at their approach , they were so displeased , saith bede , that they contradicted all the proposals that he made to them . sixthly , that upon his making three propositions to them , concerning easter , baptisme , and preaching to the english , and promising to bear with them in all other differences , ( of which sort , said he , there were many wherein their practice was contrary consuetudini nostrae , imò vniversalis ecclesiae , to the custome of the roman , yea the vniversal church ) they answered , nihil horum se facturos , nec illum pro archiepiscopo habituros , that they would not comply with him in any of them , nor acknowledge him for their archbishop ; upon which follows that rough sanguinarie answer of augustine's , quod si pacem cum fratribus accipere nollent , bellum ab hostibus forent accepturi , that if they would not accept of peace with brethren , they should have warre from enemies , and , as it follows in very plain language , per anglorum manu● ultienem mortis essent passuri , the hands of the english should act a bloody revenge upon them . which , it seems , soon after followed , and fell in an eminent manner on the monks of bangor , of which order there were at that time above two thousand , who lived all by the labour of their own hands . for , saith he , king edilfred of northumberland , coming with a great army to c●erleon , made his first onset on their priests , who were assembled by themselves to fast and pray for their brethren , ( as moses holding up his hands in prayer , whilest josua held up his in sighting ) and upon no other provocation ( taken notice of by the historian ) but this , that they fought against him with their prayers ( contra nos pugnant qui adversus no● in preca●i●s ibus prosequuntur ) he first set upon them , killed 1●00 of them , and then destroyed the whole army . sicque compie●um est praesagium sancti pontificis augustini , and so the presage of the holy bishop st. augustine was fulfi●led upon them . these particulars of the story i have thus puctually set down in obedience to the rebuke of this author , who p. 412. chargeth it upon sir hen : spelman , and those others that borrow out of him , as a want of wilingness to see the truth , & of fidelity to com●nicate it to others , that they have chosen to reflect on that testimonie ( which he is pleased to call upstart , and ) which appeared not till within these 15 years , and not upon that true antiquity , which having indured the shock of almost a 1000 years . sir henry had a little before transcribed out of bede , wherein , saith he , every one may read , first that miracle in giving sight to the blinde man , then that divine vengeance prophetically foretold by augustine , which ( in his opinion ) more than sufficiently prove , that s. augustine , sent by the pope , came in the name of god , from a lawfull authority , and that his demands of conformity to the church of rome in the points specified were good , and to be yeilded to by the britains . in this matter i might now fitly inlarge , and examine the force of this two-fold argument , that of the miraculous cure , and that of the predicted vengeance , and offer many things to consideration concerning each head . for the former , 1. the no great credit that hath been given to the relations of bede on this head of miracles ( of which his story is so richly furnished ) together with the great deceit that such pretensions have been experimented to subject men to : secondly , the confession of bede , that the britaine 's were * unwilling to yeild to this tryall of their cause , and accordingly when he saith that the † blinde man being offered to the priests of the britaines , he received no cure or benefit by them , he doth not so much as pretend that the britaine 's attempted to doe the miracle , and failed in it , but leaves us to resolve that they wholly waved this tryall : thirdly , that if the miracle were granted to be a true miracle , and a testimony of gods asserting the doctrines then contested between them , yet this would not be any concludent testimonie for the pope's supremacy , but onely for those things which were then the matter of the question , the time of the observation of easter , the rites of baptisme , accustomed in the roman church , and at the most some such like traditions , wherein the british custome varied from that of rome , for this was the forme of the proposed tryall , quae sequenda traditio quibus sit viis ad ingressum regni illius properandum , what tradition was to be followed ( in the celebration of easter , that which the britains had received and retained from their first conversion , imputed to an apostle or apostolical person , simon zelotes or joseph of arimathea , or that which the romans deduced from s. peter ) by what waies they were to hasten to entrance into that kingdome ( referring , i suppose , to the rites of baptisme , the second head of debate between them ) and in both these , ( as also in refusing to joyn with augustine in the common work of preaching to the gentiles ) it may easily be granted by us , that the truth was on the romanists side , and not on the britains , without ye●lding a supremacie of the church of rome over the british churches . fourthly , that the britains by bede's confession , acknowledged themselves convinced by that miracle , that the way of righteousness which augustine preached , was the true way , yet added , that they could not renounce their antient customes without the consent and licence of their own ( superiors ) which evidently confines aud determines the miracle and all the supposed virtue thereof to the confirming the traditions which augustine delivered , without farther extending it to the asserting the papal power ( to which the abbot of bangor's answer was particularly confronted ) for had they once acknowledged themselves convinced of that , there had been no place left for the licentia suorum , no need of the consent or licence of any other superiors , which yet they resolutely adhere to . lastly , that at their second meeting the britains deemed augustine's pride a more valid convincing argument , that the yoke which he designed to impose on them was not the yoke of christ , than the supposed miracle , that it was . and for the latter , that of the slaughter , first * threatned and then fulfilled upon them , 1. if that were indeed a miracle , it was not of the complexion , which is generally observed in christ's miracles , used for the working of faith , but proportionable to the spirit of the boanerges , which would have the fire from heaven called down upon the samaritans , and were answered by christ that this was not agreeable to the spirit of the gospel ; and if the example of s. peter on ananias and sapphyra , or of s. paul on elymas be made use of as a precedent for this severity , yet sure the answer of pope gregory to augustine at that time , supposing different churches to enjoy different customes , and not imposing the roman upon all , might have directed him to greater moderation . see bed : l. 1. c. 27. in his answer to the third interrogation . secondly , it is no very great miracle , that a grand army falling first upon unarmed monks , should obtain the victory against them , and afterward against all other their opposers ; nor consequently is it any whit strange that augustine , that was so provoked , and meant to use this bloody revengefull course , should thus threaten what he then designed to see performed , for that is the full meaning of his foretelling it . it is true indeed that either bede , or some interpolator , that copied out the original latine of that historie , hath thought good to insert some words in the end of that story , l. 2. c. 2. in fine , ( quamvis ipso jam multo ante tempore ad coelestia regna sublato ) which might delude men into a perswasion , that this bloody act was a long time after augustine's death ; but for this , first , it is observable that king alfred's saxon translation or paraphrase of bede , wholly omits that parenthesis , and reads it onely thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. and so was fulfilled the prediction of s. augustine , that they should feel the revenge of temporal destruction . secondly , that the series of the story in bede gives just prejudice to that parenthesis , for this of the slaughter of the britans being set down in the end of that second chap : the third begins with augustine's ordaining two bishops , mellitus and justus , which sure was not after his death , and as the saxon paraphrase of king alfred begins that chapter with this form of reference to the former passage , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — it was after this — which plainly defines augustine to have survived that bloody fact , so the latine bede , which sets down the time of augustine's ordaining those two bishops , anno dominicae incarnationis sexcentefimo quarto , in the year 604 , doth yet more incline us to suspect that parenthesis , for though bede , who sets down the month and day of augustine's death , sets not down the year of it , but leaves it in a latitude to be between the year 596 in which he came to england , and the year 613. ( or , as the saxon reads 616. ) in which king ethelbert died , yet others commonly affirm that he continued bishop 15 or 16 years , and so died about 612 or 13. whereas chronologers affirm the slaughter of the monks of bangor &c. to have been in the year 603 , and so the year immediately precedent to augustine's ordaining those two bishops . thirdly , when in the relation of this slaughter , the latine bede begins siquidem , posthaec ipse , de quo diximus , rex anglorum — for after this , i. e. after augustine's threatning destruction to the british , the forenamed king of the angles gathered an army — the saxon paraphrase reads , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and soon rath , i. e. very soon after this , which again perswades that it was before augustine's death , at least that the jam multo ante in the parenthesis ( that augustine died long before ) could have no truth in it . lastly , as some writers of these dark times have made a shift to affirm with the latine bede that augustine was first dead , so it is known also that others charge it on him , that he was not onely the inciter to it , but that he met the kings when they were ready for the fight , and was present with them ; and trivet in his french chronicle , that saith it was done after augustine's death , yet adds that ethelbert king of kent ; who stirred up ethelfred king of northumberland and his saxons against the britans , and by name against dinoth abbot of bangor forementioned , was highly displeased and inflamed , that he had despised augustine . all which being considered , it is certain , that this was no very christian action , whether in augustine or in ethelbert , and the threats of the one , and performances of the other , as they bear an exact proportion , so are they equally argumentative , not for , but against that cause , which was willing thus unchristianly to support it self . thirdly , if the slaughter of these poor monks shall yet be thought a solid probation , as an act of divine vengeance upon them ( just such as the falling of the towre of siloe was , from which none but a jew , or turke , or the barbarians , act. 28. or those that make prosperity the speciall mark of the true church , will think fit to conclude any thing ) there is one part of the story yet behinde , which will refute and retort that argument , for when edilfrid had used them so bloodily , and in the heat of his rage and victory proceeded to destroy the remainder of those monks , and their monasterie together , the avengers of blood met him , three british commanders , with their forces , routed his army , killed ten thousand and sixty of them , wounded the king , and put him and the remainder of his army to flight , which certainly is an argument of as much validity to inferre that god maintained the cause of those innocent monks against the saxons and augustine , as the former was argumentative on their side against the british . but it is not needfull , that i insist on either of these , the one thing that from this view of the story in bede was to be concluded , is onely this , that upon the relations , as in him they lie , and are by this author h. t. vouched against us , there can be no doubt of our conclusion , that the abbot and monks of bangor opposed augustine , yeilded him no obedience , referred themselves onely to their own governours , without any acknowledgment of obedience to the pope ; and this is generally the result of other authors narrations of this matter . so * balaeus , speaking of that convention , dinotus omnium primu● graviter & docte de non approbandà apud eos romanorum authoritate disputabat , dinoth in the first place gravely and learnedly disputed against the authority of the bishops of rome among them , adding , fortiter praeterea tuebatur menevensis archiepiscopi in ecclesiarum suarum rebus ratam jurisdictionem , that he moreover strongly and couragiously defended the validity of the jurisdiction of the archbishop of s. davids ( the same that in the abbots answer is called the bishop of caerleon ) in the affairs of his own churches . so geffrey of monmouth , edelbertus rex kantiorum , ut vidit britones dedignantes subjectionem augustino facere , northumbrorum & cateros saxonum regulos instimulavit , ut collecto grandi exercitu in civitatem bangor abbatem dinoth & caeteros clericos , qui eos spreverunt , perditum irent . king ethelbert seeing the britains disdain to yeild their subjection to augustine , stirred up the king of northumberland and other saxon kings to gather a great army against the city bangor , to destory dinoth the abbot and the other clerks of that monasterie , who had scorned augustine and the saxons . so sigebert in anno 602. augustinus — habita synodo cum britonum & scotorum episcopis , quâ sacerdotes & monachos invenit adversarios aequitatis — augustine had a meeting with the british and scotish bishops , and there found an opposition from the priests and monks , and terrified them by prediction of a calamity that should fall on them . other evidences to the same purpose are set down in the collection of the anglicane councels , and mr. whelock's notes on his edition of the saxon bede , p. 115. if there could now remain any question of it . and that this was discerned by the author of this appendix , if it had been for his interest to have taken notice of it , is evident by his mention of the miracle and divine vengeance , as of proofs that augustine was in the right against these refusers , who yet continued , saith he still refractory to his proposals . and this was all i concluded from the abbot's answer , and this stands firm in this romanist's own confession , though the words of the abbot's answer had not been preserved to us . and therefore being now wholly unconcerned in the validity of this testimony , and so secured from all danger of being bribed by interests to judge more favourably of it than the matter requires , i shall now proceed calmly to consider , whether there be that clearness and evidence in this author's arguments for the invalidating this testimony , which he assures us we shall finde in them . his first argument is negative from the [ not least scrap of antiquity so much as pretended to prove that the cambrian ( i. e. welch ) lines cited , were the abbot of bangor's answer to augustine upon the occasion specified , nor that the renouned dinoth was that abbot , nor that the old manuser : whence sir henry spel : extracts the testimony , was copied out of any more antient . what other proof from antiquity should be expected from sir henry spelman to give authority to these lines , than what readily offers it self in this matter , i doe not understand ; that the british , particularly those of bangor , and yet more peculiarly dinoth the famous abbot of that monasterie , disputed against augustine's pretensions for the authority of the bishop of rome , and asserted their own subjection to their metropolitane , hath already appeared to be the affirmation of those , who are most competent witnesses of it , and the manuscript passage in welch and english , which sir h. spel : had transcribed from mr. moston's copie ( and directs the reader to sir cotton's library to satisfie himself in that matter ) is directly agreeable to this for the matter of it , and so gave that very judicious knight just reason both to set some value on it himself , and to communicate it to others , as that which might gratifie their curiosity , and approve it self by its own light to any judicious reader , to be , if not the very words of that abbot's answer , yet the sense and substance of it , and whether of these it should be judged to be , it matters not . had the contents of this testimony been any way contrary to other undoubted records of those times , or indeed any disparate new relation , that had not formerly been taken notice of , and was now to owe the whole credit and support to this testimonie , some reason there might have been for an aristarchus to proceed with more caution than here was used , and to yeild nothing to bare groundlesse conjectures ( and the romanist hath as much reason as any man to lay this to heart , to act with this caution in other testimonies ) but when the matter is agreed on among the antients , and an old record offers it self to our view , in perfect concord with that which we had formerly all reason to believe , and onely affirms that more legibly and distinctly , which was in substance before , but not so punctually delivered to us , i cannot think the severest critick , supposing him unconcerned and impartial , without any hypothesis of his own to be defended or tended by him , would have any aversion or dislike to a testimony thus produced , though for some circumstances of it , such as are here mentioned , the producer have nothing of authority to back his own conjectures . this one thing i am sure is most unjust , not to give credit to a manuscript , that it is what it pretends to be , unlesse i have some expresse affirmation of antiquity concerning that particular manuscript ; should such rules of severity be now imposed on the presse , the vatican must never bring forth more rarities , the wealth of all the archives in the world must lie dead , like a miser's treasure , no one volume being able to testifie for the veracity of its neighbour , or if it were , it self must also bring its voucher along with it , and so on in infinitum , or else it would not be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a competent testification in this matter , and when it is remembred , that all , which is now made publick by the help of printing , lay once in single manuscripts , and those multipliable onely by transcribing , and neither the originals nor copies any other way testified to be what they pretended to be , than as these cambrian lines are delivered to us by sir henry , i hope this will be deemed a competent proof , that this first argument is not so clearly demonstrative as was promised . another branch there is of this first argument , in these words , and certainly if his manuscript be no elder than the interlined english , he hath grossly wronged himself and his reader , by honouring it with the style of antient : for , as every one sees , the english is purely modern , and cannot be so old by many years as henry the eighth●s cashiering the pope's authority , and arrogating the supremacy in ecclesiasticall matters to himself , for maintenance whereof it is alledged , and was certainly forged . to this i answer briefly , that it is not pretended by sir henry , that the english is as antient as the times of dinoth , no nor the welch neither , but that those two languages were made use of by some , whose ages he pretends not to know , to conveigh to us intelligibly the answer of that abbot , in what language soever it were delivered by him ; and if it shall now be granted to this author , that the english idiome evidenceth it to be written within these last 100 years , this can be no prejudice or ground of suspition , much lesse a proof of forgery against this manuscript , as long as the welch is allowed to be more antient , to which the english may upon a latter transcribing have been annext , as fitly as old greek mss. are daily printed with the latine translations of a later date , in the same or several pages . his second argument is deduced from the cambrian lines , in which he pretends to discover many un-cambrian mixtures of english words , helpio and gleimio , for help and claim , want of orthographie , and the like ; to which being utterly unskilfull in the welch language , i acknowledge my self incompetent to give any very particular reply , yet shall give my reason , why i cannot think that this second argument of his is any more demonstrative against the validity of the testimony , than the former ; for 1. supposing this copie of mr. moston●s to be a transcript , not the original ( as it is evident s. h. spelman supposeth ) what difficulty is there to imagine , that that copie was transcribed by one unskilful in the orthographie of that language , especially when it is known , how ordinary this is to be found , not only among the vulgar , but among learned church-men of that nation , who are fain by study to acquire skill of reading before they can officiate in that language . secondly , i shall readily grant , or , if he please , yeild to the force of his arguments , that the welch lines are not the words , or language wherein dinoth delivered his answer , but ( as this gentleman after contends ) that dinoth , a writer of latine books , being to speak to augustine , that understood not the british language , gave his answer in latine ; what hinders now , but that this latine answer being conserved among the britans , might in later times ( before henry the eight ) in any age to which the idiome of the welch lines shall direct a critick in that language to affix them , be translated into imperfect ( i mean more modern ) yet intelligible welch , either by a native of that countrey , or by any other , who had acquired so much of that language , as was sufficient for no weightier an enterprise ? i discern not what disadvantage i can receive by this concession , and then sure there will be small difficulty in vindicating sir henry's integrity , if this shall be supposed ; for he no where pretends , that the cambrian lines , in the form here presented , were the language , or words of the answer of dinoth , but that the matter of his answer , in what language soever delivered by him , is communicated to us by that ms. and that it was not , here is no word of so much as probable argument , much lesse of clear demonstration tenderd by the author of this appendix . lastly , for the two words which occasioned his charge of the english mixtures , i am , by those which have skill in the language , enabled to return him some answer , that the word help , from whence is the infinitive helpio or helpu , is found used by tudor aled , who wrote an : 1490. and by lluellyn , who is thought to be more antient , and that gleimio , or cleimio is by the latine and welch dictionary set down in the word vendico , in the first place , ( and after that holi ) as the most proper welch word for it , not borrowed from the english ; from whence as i shall not conclude , that these welch lines , were the original of dinoth's answer ( that were to retract my former concession ) so i may safely assume , that these two words ( his onely instances of english mixtures ) doe no way demonstrate this welch translation to be later than henry the eight's cashiering the pope's authority ( as of the english it was granted ) nor consequently leave it under suspition of being forged by any protestant . his third argument is of more seeming force , taken from the mention of this abbot's subjection to the bishop of caerleon upon vske , in which he findes two absurdities , 1. saith he , of●han ●han elwy , now commonly called s. assaph , 2. all histories testifie that the archiepiscopal seat was removed from caerleon to s. david 's in king arthur 's time , who died about the year 544. i. e. 50 years before augustine 's first entrance into britain . to these two branches of probation , certainly the answer is very obvious to the first , that acknowledging and supposing that the monasterie of banchor , situate in flintshire , though within the confines of chestshire , was under the diocesan bishop either of s. asaph , or of chester the episcopal see of bangor lying in the county of caernarven ) yet this can be of no manner of force against this testimony , for he that was under the bishop of s. asaph , as his immediate superior , or diocesan , may yet be under the bishop of caerleon , as his metropolitan , as he that is under the bishop of rochester in one respect , is under the bishop of canterbury in another . and so that is a full answer to his first difficulty . for the second , it is acknowledged that before this time of dinoth's answer to augustine , the archiepiscopal see had been by authority of synod removed first from caerleon to landaffe by dubritius , anno 512. and so it is affirmed by sir hen : spelman in his apparat : p. 25. ( where by the way lin : 5. the printer hath mistaken ad meneviam for ad landaviam ) and in like manner by his successor s. david , anno 516. by licence from king arthur , from landaff to menevia , which from that eminent bishop , under whom that change was made , was after called s. davids . but this removal of the metropolitical see from one city to another was not of such weight or consideration , but that the metropolitical dignity , having been so long fixt at caerleon , might still retain that title after the translation . besides , the abbot of bangor making answer to augustine●s claim , which was founded in some old right , which he pretended the pope to have over all churches , it was most proper to contest this by former practice , not onely how it stood at that present , but especially how it had been 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of old , or from the beginning , by custome immemorial , and herein not to consider such immaterial changes , as were the removing of the primate's see from one city to another , but to look on it , as it had alwaies layn , in opposition to all forreign jurisdiction : and it being certain that caerleon was antiently this prime see , nothing was more agreeable to this contest , as it is supposed to be managed by that abbot , than thus to referre to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as the councels of nice , and antioch , and chalcedon , and ephesus had done , in the like controversies ) to tell augustine that the british christians had alwaies , from their first plantation , been under a british primate , and to call the british primate by that title , which had most antiently belonged to him , i. e. bishop of caerleon , and not by the later of landaffe , or the yet later of s. davids . what this author here objects against the former of these answers , saying , 1. that this is not proved . and 1. that it implies a contradiction to say the see was translated , and the former title still retained , translation importing the taking a new , and desertion of the old title , ] is no way applicable to this second answer ( which consequently remains in full force ) and therefore i need not farther attend to it ; and in relation to the former answer , it is farre from the promised clearnesse of demonstration . for as to the first part of it , the thing may be true , though it be not proved ▪ the contrary must be proved by him that promiseth clear or demonstrative confutations : and for the second , it must be founded in some new notion of contradiction , which my logick hath not acquainted me with , for sure he that saith the see was translated , and the former title retained , doth neither say that the see was translated and not translated ( which is the only form of a logical contradiction ) nor that the former title was retained and not retained ; nor consequently can i discern the least inconvenience , much lesse contradiction , either direct , or by way of implication , that the metropolitical see being translated from caerleon to another city , the metropolitan should still retain his original title , that of bishop of caerleon . other exceptions he proceeds to adde , but those so farre again from being , according to promise , demonstrative evidences against this testimonie , that they are no way worthy to be attended to . first , that dinoth would probably have answered in latine , and to that i have already replied , that i may well grant he did so , and consequently that both the welch and english in mr. moston's ms. were translations of that latine . secondly , that the words in welch rendred [ whom you name to be pope — ] are not rightly translated ; in this again i cannot contend , having no knowledge in that language , but as before i followed sir henry's translation , and finding it not very clear , did endevour to expresse his meaning by a just paraphrase , and thereby happily rendred the true sense of the place , so if i should now believe my teacher again , this author , that undertakes to correct sir henry's translation , it would not be impossible so to render the words , as should bear a very commdious sense , and perfectly agreeable to the notion i formerly had of them . but being not secure that my leader h. t. ( whom now i discern to be no welch-man ) hath really the skill in that language , which his animadversions pretend to , i thought it more reasonable to consult some other more knowing guide , and am now from a judicious hand assured , that there is an error in the distinction between daad : and yw gleimio , which being taken away , the true rendring of the whole is this , et aliam obedientiam , quam istam , non agnosco ego cujusquam esse , quem vos nominat is papam , vel patrem patrum , vendicare & postulare , and any other obedience than that , i acknowledge not to be any mans ( or to belong to any man ) whom ye name pope , or father of fathers , to challenge and require . this is plain sense , and still perfectly agreeable to the understanding , i formerly had of the words , and i doubt not but upon the most critical examination it will be found to be the most literal rendring of them . the third , of the no good sense of the english is already answered also , by adhering to that better translation , which is as perfectly fit for our turns , as the other was imagined to be , and much more intelligible and clear , as appeared in the last number . the fourth is , that the words used of the bishop of caerleon ▪ [ who is to oversee under god over us ] makes against the ●ym of the prelatick reformers , and particularly against me , who labour to support the king's supremacie against the pope , whereas these words exclude the king as well as the pope ] but certainly there is no force in this , for augustine's demand , or question being onely of that obedience and subordination which belonged to the supreme bishop , whether that were the bishop of rome , or the bishop , of caerleon , and not at all inquiring into the nature or extent of the regal or imperial power ( there being no occasion to suggest any such inquirie ) the abbot's answer can in no probability be extended any farther than the question extended , i. e. to the asserting the prime episcopal power to belong to the metropolitan of caerleon or s. david's , without any subordination to the pope of rome . as for that which in the fift place he adds of the miracle and divine vengeance , in bede , and so concludes his appendix , to that i have spoken * already , in that which i thought meet to premise to this debate , and so i have no more to adde by way of answer to his exceptions , but that i cannot sufficiently wonder , that this author ( so recommended to the the reader by his learned friend in the front of his book ) should make it his solemn businesse to invalidate this one supernumerary testimony , being withall no better provided with arguments to promise him successe in it . the end. errata . page 4. line 28. after him adde , p. 15. l. 24. after side re : or p. 33. marg : l. 3. re : apolog : l. 29. after must adde , p. 36. l. 32. re : nomina p. 40. l. 12. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. 13. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 83. l. 34. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 15. l. 24. after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dele , p. 19. l. 33. after else adde ) p. 90. l. 17. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. 20. for the re : then p. 96. l. ult : re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 108. l. 30. re : testifie p. 111. marg : l. 11. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 120. l. 26. re : it as p. 121. l. 11. re : campegius p. 129. l. 8. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. 6. re : yet larger p 133. l. 17. re : by this p. 135. l. 6. re : schism in him , p. 136. l. 35. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 137. l. 29. re : and shall l. 32. re : extitit p. 138. l. ult : re : is one p. 141. l. 7. re : con-l . 24. re : our innocence p. 148. l. 36. re : is utterly p. 150. l. 7. re : this p. 155. l. 11. re : the fall p. 160. l. 36. re : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 161. l. 11. re : naucratius notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a45460-e3230 * ch 7. sect. 1. notes for div a45460-e16450 * l. 7. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * apoll : 2. ad imp : const : edit : par : tom : 1. p. 756. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , paris : ed : t. 1. p. 827. c. * concil : tom : 1. p. 266. * cont : cels : l. 3. he urgeth gratian too . * decret : grat : par : 1. dist : 92. c. 2. notes for div a45460-e26450 * of schism , p. 74. sect. 5. * a. gellius , l. 18. c. 3. * tract of schism , c. 4. §. 7. c. 4. §. 8 . &c. sect. 8 , 9. * savil : ed : t. 3. p. 730 , 731. † 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * l. 7. c. 47. † in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * epist : ad zenon : * in chron : ( ms. oxon : ) l. 10. * en●om : ignat : sect. 9. sect. 12. sect. 14. sect. 20. sect. 2. * annot : on mat. 19. d. and power of keyes , c. 5. §. 13. notes for div a45460-e49490 sect. 5. * colon : edit . fol. 118. * ep : ●4 fol. 119. † ep : 55. fol. 120. * culpam , quam de augendâ potestate , alienâ ( ut asseris ) adhortatione contraxeras , etsi non ad sola clericorum sonfilia transtulisses . leo. ep : 71. * edit : paris : tom : 3. p. 504. &c. * ibid p. 506. b. * lib. 2. in fine . * epist : concil : chalt ad leon : pap : concil : t. 3 p. 475. b. * subscript : eleu●herii chalced : ep : ibid : p. 46. f. * concil : ● . 3. p 460. p. 461. d. * ad maxim. antioch : ep : 62. fol 124. * tom : 6. an : 454 n. 13 . &c. * p. 453. p. 463. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * tom. 6. ann : 451. num : 143. decret : par : 1. dist : 193. c. legimus . * de author : eccl : 7. * ann : 454. num : 13 , &c. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . notes for div a45460-e68470 sect. 1. sect. 2. * neque suscipere dogma perversii vellent , neque versutiam nefariae persuasioni● refutare verbis certando sufficevent : bed. l. 1. c. 17. * bed. l. 1. c. 12 , 13. sect. 8. * balsam . in concil : in trull : can. 38. * 1 concil . chal. c. 17. * ib. pag. 342. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , can. 12. * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , balsam : in can : 12. * in chalced : can. 12. * jam. 1. 17. 3. 15 , 17. &c. notes for div a45460-e77740 begun in hen. 8. sir walter raleigh in prefito histor : of the world. napier on the revelation . * eccl : hist : l. 1. c. 27. * ib : l. 2. c. 2. * b. gre : ep : ex regist : l. 7. indict : 1. c. 30. * par : 1. dist : 99. ecce * l. de diff : reg : et eccl : potest : notes for div a45460-e89660 sect. 4. sect. 5. * epist . ad epict. * sess . 10. ib. p. 641. d. notes for div a45460-e100140 hooker 's eccl : pol : * annot. on the place . * hieron . qu. 11. ad alga● . † atheneus , l. 1. * golizius in thesau : dio in adriano prudentius . * rom. 11. 2. * conc p. 858 paris : * jose , thon : p cil : f● p. 102 * concil : tom : 3. p. 25. * ibid : n. 19. p. 19. * ibid : n. 20. p. 20. notes for div a45460-e109850 * l. 3. p. 325. p. 413. * quod cum adversarii , inviti licèt , concederent . † cum oblatus britonis̄ sacerdotibus nil curationis horum ministerio cepit . * fertur minitans praedixisse . bede , terruit eos vaticinio futurae super eos calamitatis . sigebert . * ●in dinoth . p. 405. p. 405. p. 406 , 7 , 8. p. 409. p. 410. * n. 19 , 20.